Eldergays: Tell Me About Steve Frame of Bay City

Link to previous thread.

And the other previous thread about Kathryn Hayes.

Welcome to my party on my beautiful house and grounds, the Chancellor Estate. I am Scoche Marin, the grande dame of daytime as Katherine Shepherd Reynolds Chancellor Thurston Sterling Murphy.

Kim thought Margo was lesbian.

He got fat.

Wasn't he Jamie's father?

I get why people loved Jacquie Courtney , she was a star. I never got the appeal of George Reinholt.

He looks like everyone's 1970s gay uncle.

I am posting this on all the P&G related forums.

The Locher Room will have a Lisa Brown tribute next Friday 4/29.

And they *finally* have John Wesley Shipp participating in one of these.

[quote] And they *finally* have John Wesley Shipp participating in one of these.

Alan Locher identifies as "they" now?

Haha R10

I wish “they” had Lori Shelle, the actress who played Nola’s sidekick Gracie on rather than the one who played Mitzi. And who the fuck was Mitzi, again?

When is MY tribute toots?

Of course we mention M on the last thread which got up in the 300 reply range and BAM subscribe only now.

Someone mentioned ATWT and AMC were the best soaps from 1986 - 1990. It was certainly GL from 1990-1993. GL was must watch during those years. Sadly, GL did a lot of damage at apparently the worst time from late 1985-1988 because it took its ratings until 1992 to start to move up after it had been quality since 1988. Then, we all know the extremely bad luck it got in 1992 which killed its momentum cold while its ratings were sometimes as high as #2. It never recovered.

I can't speak to ratings but GL's bad time in the mid 80s coincided with the gap between Pam Long's first and second stints as HW. She left near the end of 1985 and returned in September 1987.

But GL was in a solid position by the time she left in 1990 - Curlee and Demorest took that and made it soar for a few years.

So someone posted this site to a general thread.....it looks to be a collection of TV clips (among other things) and has 60s and 70s clips as well as later.

I noticed a soap selection, and saw some old AW, ATWT and GL things in here.

AW got a kick in the cunt from Lezzie Connie. But not much else. AW was boring!!!!

When my hair comes down, I **AM** Sharly!

Talk about me!

When he retired, moved to Essington, Pennsylvania. In 1997 he placed an ad in a local paper offering his services to take women to parties or other events. Some of the press implied he was selling himself as an escort, in a sexual manner. Reinholt was furious and appeared on the Sally Jessy Raphael talk show to clear up the record.

When George lived on Leroy Street, a female relative was his secretary, Val Dufour told me he didn't like Jacquie Courtney, something about purposeful garlic breath.

I want to hear more about George Reinholt (never heard of him until this thread). He looks sexy in OP's pic with the square chin. His voice sounds gay to me. What is his story (other than the ad in the newspaper).

Oh no! Vee, who’s in the biz, and Ugly Victoria Fuckton are fighting over at SON! Each reporting the other. Whatever shall we do???? Such a tragedy. Ada would kick them both in the cunt!!!

Like the caption says, searching for the right girl takes a lot of time ...

Jacquie had really, really bad legs. Fat with cankles.

I think it was around 1978-79 when I saw him at Philadelphia's Penn Station decked in leather from head to toe.

According to Reinholt's obituary, he was also an expert on Dr. Sigmund Freud.

Oh, I didn't realize he had died.

R23 He sucked cock. There, you’re up to speed.

He was handsome when he was younger in an Elvis way.

But he also aged like Elvis.

Gayer than Gay Gayerson.

We had the kind of love you'll never know.

WHERE is the son you've ever given HIM????!!?!?!??

Reinholt was part of the first real super-triangle on a soap. The trio (Jacquie Courtney's Alice, Reinholt's Steve and Robin Strasser's Rachel) thrust Another World to the top of the soap world. Courtney and Reinhart were so popular as a couple that they ended up on another soap as a couple. But to me Strasser was the star of this group. Her scheming, social-climbing bitch Rachel made this storyline must-see-TV. When milquetoast Victoria Wyndham took over when Strasser left, she watered down the character beyond recognition.

Messrs. Procter & Gamble were also said to be in a tizzy over his "nude" photo shoot.

I only knew him as Tony Lord on OLTL.

He had a very hairy barrel chest.

As a gayling, he was definitely in my spank bank.

There is something sexy about him…

[quote] When milquetoast Victoria Wyndham took over when Strasser left, she watered down the character beyond recognition.

😒

Reinholt's Steve Frame had a magnetic quality about it. He was compelling on screen. You wanted to see what he was doing.

He imbued Steve Frame with a raw masculinity that worked for the character.

David Canary never managed to capture any of that in his portrayal.

That brings to mind an interesting question r39.

David Canary was the wrong choice for Steve Frame, and Reinholt was too messy to be asked back.

So if AW were to pick someone else to play Steve in 1981, who would you pick?

The first person that comes to mind for me is Michael Zaslow. He was age appropriate, and while he didn’t look like Reinholt (neither did Canary) he would have imbibed the character with some darkness and mystery.

R40 Maybe Mark LaMura?

[quote]The first person that comes to mind for me is Michael Zaslow. He was age appropriate, and while he didn’t look like Reinholt (neither did Canary) he would have imbibed the character with some darkness and mystery.

Well, Zaslow was available in 1981. And certainly had the acting chops to pull of the role. However I don't know he had the right mix of charisma, masculinity and refined elegance to pull it off.

I think Gene Bua could have played Steve Frame.

He had the acting chops, but we've largely forgotten him. I don't think we've ever talked about him on these soap threads.

He was the same age as Reinholt. He played Bill Prentis on Love of Life in the early 1970s, where he married his co-star Toni Bull Bua, who played Tess

Then he moved to How to Survive a Marriage and later to Somerset where he played Steve Slade.

David Canary got the role of Steve Frame because he had played a three-month role of a terrorist named Far Wind on The Doctors in 1979. He was amazing in that role, very charismatic. He was so good in that role, you assumed they'd find some way to keep him around. They tried that briefly, but about that time, they had a change in HWs and the Far Wind just sort of disappeared.

So, not a surprise the AW lured him back to soaps two years later. What was surprising was casting him as Steve Frame.

David Canary ate alot of pussy during his drunk days.

They should've de-aged Steve and hired Chandler Hill Harben.

Steve Frame should have never been brought back.

When Another World Re-Activated Rachel-Steve-Alice Triangle In 1982

They threw in Doug Watson "Mac Cory" to make it a quadrangle

Terrible decision by Corinne Jacker (deceased - thank god) and Paul Rauch. (Deceased - thank god)

R49 what was wrong with a Alice/Steve/Rachel/Mac quadrangle

They had to do something, why not that?

Because they were trying to reignite a triangle with 3 recasts. Technically 3, but Wyndham did play some of the iconic moments of the triangle.

Mitch had moved into that Steve Frame space for Rachel. They should have played Alice, Rachel, and Mitch with Mac as the spoiler. Here is the story, Mitch starts to get close to Alice and they develop a relationship. Mitch takes Rachel to court for full custody of Matthew and wins. Boom, Alice is raising Rachel's son. There is your story.

Excellent idea r51. That could have worked so well. Bravo!

[quote] Mitch starts to get close to Alice

Actually Mitch was moving closer to Alice, when he had amnesia. They even went on a few dates and made out. But when Mitch got his memory back, he back to Rachel, while Alice made a play Mac

But then William Espy Gray suddenly quit (he came back to wrap up his storyline) with one person missing from that Quadrangle, that is when the idea was to replace Mitch spot with Steve Frame.

He loved to take it up the ass!

Read 8 Years in AW. Don’t make me start quoting it! Because I will!!!! Crazy psycho Donna L. Bridges

.......

Why did it take P&G so long to dump Paul Rauch? The show had been at the bottom of the ratings for a few years before they ditched him.

When will Vee, who is in the biz, get Donna banned from SON?

Donna koo koo is going by Tonksadora these days. She’s a complete whacko! She “fought” to save AW from cancellation for years, but the truth is that they cancelled it because of her. P&G was sick of hearing from that mentally ill woman so they canned AW.

Ugh, it's back.

Where is the Raid?

Vee, who’s in the biz, will take care of Tonksadora Mo Benard style. Vicky Icky Fuckton aside.

TrollBGone

Let me be clear - nonsense about snatches being eaten or making the same tired, unfunny joke about using studio toilets is one thing, troll.

But go after someone who has a debilitating disease on this board to ridicule them and I will fucking have charges against you for harassment.

Fuck around and find out, bitch.

Any Eldergays willing to share their take on Search for Tomorrow? Favorite characters, storylines, best years, etc.

This soap isn't discussed much here. Is there a reason? Was it bad or just not particularly memorable? I'm looking forward to digging into some quick half hour shows after I'm done watching various years of AW, GL, and OLTL. I've decided that Edge of Night and Search are my best bets for quick doses of drama.

Search was really about one person - Jo - for a very long time. It had a bit of a revival in the late 70s when Morgan Fairchild was on, but it sort of flailed around over the last 6 or so years of its existence. It survived being cancelled once, but not twice.

Edge of Night maybe has more to dig into, though many of its stories are self contained mysteries.

Here is something I noticed about Search when I watch it on Youtube. Search uses the exact same music cues as Edge of Night. I found that interesting. Search was never "my show", it was just always there. What I really love about Search is reading all the behind the scenes story about Mary Stuart.🤣

I know Mary was supposed to be difficult, but I’ve never heard specific examples. Anyone care to share?

A brief search on Youtube shows that SFT has limited videos, mostly from 1981 to 1986 -- which makes sense, given that the soaps weren't actively archived until 1979. These are the latter years, so definitely not the show at its best, I gather.

Funnily enough, there are Edge episodes going back to the early 70s. I even saw a couple of eps from the late 60s listed. Maybe I'll continue my Edge viewing for now. During Thanksgiving weekend 2020 I watched the storyline surrounding the murder of Margo Dorn. I was riveted and completely satisfied with the conclusion. I would have killed Margo if I thought I could steal her penthouse! One of the best sets on EON.

I didn't continue my EON watch due to plain laziness. There are lots of clips, but I'd have to put them into a playlist to keep it all in order. I guess I'll hop to it because this was really an enjoyable show. I liked the self-contained mysteries.

R70, did you watch the Emily Michaels story which came from the Margo Dorn Murder. I recommend that and the Mansion of the Damned storyline. Two greats.

I saw an article about a fan convention about Another World. During a Q&A, some woman said George Reinhold was so great, the show was better with him on it and they should have kept him on. Wyndham said that she disagreed with that statement totally and that woman didn't have to work with him. Bev Penberthy then chimed in that it was a blessing he was no longer with the show.

R44 are you serious? Canary's take as 'Far Wind' was laughable. He was channeling a Charles Manson vibe. I think he was nicknamed Pass Wind by Lydia Bruce.

I did not R71, but will look it up and try to put the clips together. Thanks for the rec.

R73, a friend of mine played one of his disciples. The nickname they had for him was “Breaking Wind.”

Canary was an old drunk. Lydia Bruce HATED him!

One of Reinholt's obituaries mentioned that his primary mentor when he was still a teenager was Jasper Deeter who ran the Hedgerow Theatre.

Actor, George Axler, also studied at Hedgerow when he was his late teens (about a decade prior to Reinholt). Axler once gave an interview for the Philadelphia Gay History Project and said this about Deeter and his experience at Hedgerow:

[quote] So I went and I met Jasper Deeter, who was the founder of Hedgerow Theatre and the head of the school, who was in his early sixties at the time.

[quote] He’s a very famous man. Books are written about him. He was a personal friend of Eugene O'Neill’s and he acted in some of Eugene O'Neill’s first productions of his plays. So anyway I met Jasper and we had a lovely brief interview. And he liked me. And I was impressed with what he had to say. And I went to the school. And I learned an awful lot about acting, but I learned as much about being homosexual, about being comfortable about being homosexual, while I was a student at the Hedgerow Theatre School.

[quote] Because Jasper was a gay man. And he had a lover of many years, Dan Chrispman. And it was just a fact. Jasper was gay and he had this male lover. But it was more than that. There were other men in the acting company. You see, the Hedgerow Theatre, which was out in the country, had a resident company. There were like twenty, twenty-five people who lived there all the time. You might want to call it an artists' colony. But I don’t like that expression because that smacks to me of dilettantism. And there was nothing remotely dilettantish about Hedgerow. Hedgerow was very serious and dedicated and they did wonderful plays.

[quote] Jasper said on several occasions that as an acting teacher he had spent a lifetime teaching women how to act feminine and teaching men how to act masculine. The people who gravitate to acting, to studying acting, the women are usually masculine-acting and the men are kind of soft and feminine-behaving. And if you're going to be an actor and you're a man, you have to act like a man. And if you're going to be an actress and you're a woman, you have to act like a woman.

[quote] It was a kind of an introduction to homosexuality for me in that I learned to be comfortable around people who I knew were openly homosexual, who were actively homosexual. And I learned to be comfortable in their presence. And not to pity them or think it was shameful. Throughout my childhood I had been taught that you had to feel sorry for fairies. And being a fairy was a shameful thing. But I got over that while I was a student at Hedgerow School.

Oh gawd. That Koo Koo Donna is at it again. Sigh.

I was a huge SFT fan starting in the Liza-Travis days. But even by then the show had shifted away from Jo and Stu and their families. Part of the problem was Stuart refused to allow the show to transition Jo into the matriarch she obviously was and out of the ingénue role. The show did well when Jo was front and center in a reasonable story for a woman of her age, but not as well when she was sidelined. The storyline with John Glover was a late highpoint for Jo...didn't hurt that John Glover is a great actor! And she worked well with Jacquie Schultz when the McCleary brothers nearly ate the show.

Linked is a classic episode where Jo sang that (to me at least) shows how relatable and endearing she was.

DL fave Joel Higgins (Silver Spoons) sings with Jo!

So, Vicky Wyndham and Beverly Penberthy didn't like working with Reinholt. Has Robin Strasser ever given her opinion on him? She has one on just about everyone else.

BTW, Beverly Penberthy is still living and is 90 years old.

Is Penberthy’s gay homo nephew still around here?

We know, R81. Her nephew occasionally posts here.

I ❤️ Cecile

Shit gets real @ 42:11

They had the kind of love we'll never know, R86.

Everything about that scene is so great, especially Aunt Liz's outfit.

All that fuss over a house that wasn't that nice anyway.

In the early days of AW, Aunt Liz was supposed to be extremely wealthy. I wonder what happened to the money that she ended up in some dumpy apartment and worked as Mac's secretary.

Aunt Lez was too busy eating out Ada’s nasty old snatch.

R88 and her pained, horrified expression …lol

R86 That is a long show. What are we supposed to be looking at? The scene at 41:11 was good. The acing was really good. Was this when AW was and hour and a half?

No R92, I believe, those were multiple scenes put together for Jacqueline Courtney's Emmy Reel. AW didn't go to 90 minutes until 1979.

The idea that whatever that mess was where Jacquie screams....that someone would submit that to the Emmys!

SON removed the status updates because Donna aka tonksaloon was forcing Vee, who is in the biz, along with dramatistnightmare, j swatch, and others to make passive aggressive statuses about her posts. It’s a madhouse pver there!! Where are DumbDylan and pervy amc2008 to add to the fun? Pervsudz and Khunt are still being creepy. Simple John is still being weird.

MARY MATTHEWS!

At SON, Tonkswhacko is driving everyone away. She’s a complete loon. Pervsudz just wants to whack his lil doodle to Chambo’s new movie. Icky Fuckton is still the slimiest of gross ugly idiots. Vee is not in control there anymore.

I'm watching 1991 Guiding Light episodes today. Bridget just hit town and is constantly in trouble. She's driving Ed and Maureen nuts.

Her boyfriend, Elvis, came to town to fleece Bridget and the Bauers. Watching the actor playing Elvis, I keep thinking that this is the type of role that a non-standard actor could make his own. Sort of like what Tony Geary and Roger Howarth did on their shows. Also Matthew Ashford, to a lesser extent. They went from bit players to romantic antiheroes. But to do that, you have to have lots of charisma and a little bit of talent. Heavier on the charisma because in soaps, it's not always the most talented actors who have the most commanding screen presence.

Alas, dude playing Elvis displayed little talent and even less charisma. And that was usually par for the course. That's why when a young day player would come on and wow the audience, everyone took notice. With four soaps left (and, IMO, some of the weakest casts playing out the stories) that will probably never happen again.

I loved Melissa Hayden as Bridget, and the shenanigans with Nadine.

Melissa Hayden was awesome. So real.

Melissa Hayden Emmy Reel when she beat Sarah Michelle Geller for the Emmy

and SMG was not thrilled if you see her reaction

Loved Melissa! Wished Bridget had stuck around.

Melissa Hayden/Bridget was the bomb.

Steve Frame...what a hunk!

[quote] Loved Melissa! Wished Bridget had stuck around.

When she renewed her contract for another 3 years, she coming off a hot streak where she was front burner for three years straight

But the minute the ink was dried, her character went on the back burner for the next three years. Her character had nothing to do once she got custody of Peter

Not surprising once her second 3 year contract was up, she chose to leave. But she did say on the Locher Room the writing was SO GOOD those first three years.

And she came back for the finale right beside Lisa Brown as she blew Company a last kiss.

Don’t forget that Miss Locher is doing a Lisa Brown tribute tomorrow at 3. 100 year old Mrs. Renfield is scheduled to be there!!!

Tomorrow is the Lisa Brown tribute.

Is the poster who started the Llantano Mountains thread around? That thread is only open to subscribers and I feel the need to discuss Bo Buchanan's transformation from a soap opera producer into the town's police commissioner in just a few short years. Did Asa buy him the post? Did fans of Fraternity Road vote Bo in?

Won't one of you kind subscribers please have mercy on this old, cantankerous dyke and begin a new Llanview thread? I promise to kick you in the cunt...and then cunt loudly after I've been kicked.

R109 I eagerly await your cunt punting.

The thread Ada's Dish Rag requested:

R111, why did you start a new thread when the post directly before yours already did, an hour ago?

I have r110 blocked. Maybe it's one of Spicen's four accounts.

I'm R110 and I am not Spicen. Not sure why anyone would have me blocked, but, whatever.

Ada, you dear old butch, you now have two threads to choose from. Bon appetit!

Thanks to R110 and R111 we now have TWO Llanview threads to cunt in. Hopefully they don't both get torched at the same time. I'll just be posting in one for now, and keeping the other in my back pocket.

Now watch my namesake act her ass off by simply venturing off an elevator.

Ada's Dish Rag.

In relation to your OLTL request, they coined a new term -- elderdyke. That's how the OP of the Bo Buchanan thread characterized you in his/her intro.

At least that's a new term to me. Never heard elderdyke before today.

How do you feel about this term?

Hi AuntLiz,

I accept the term and wear it with honor. I'm definitely an elderdyke at the ripe old age of 46. I've been cunting on the DL since 1999, with a few breaks here and there.

When I buy my first cane I'll make DL aware of my change in status.

"Elderdyke" isn't new. I remember seeing the term almost 10 years ago in posts related to Hillary Clinton, also Kelly McGillis. There's also this very recent thread:

Just watched the Lisa Brown tribute. It was very touching. JWS showed up halfway through and was really articulate about Brown and how she brilliantly transformed Nola from a much-hated villainess to a beloved heroine. Patrick Mulcahey told a really funny story about being bribed by college girls to write off Nola by having her killed by being pushed down some stairs.

Thank you R119. I had a project due today or I would have watched live. I knew I would be a blubbering mess. I will definitely watch.

Speaking of the attendees of today's tribute....

Last week Digest had an interesting feature where they talked to a few performers who had been on multiple soaps. Two of them were Judi Evans and Cynthia Watros.

Judi said some interesting things about GL. I thought she hadn't gotten along with Mikey O Leary but she said nice things about him, which makes me wonder now if it was *Krista* and Grant that sort of Mean Girl-ed her.

But anyway, in Cynthia's answers, she said "Oh, I never mentioned this before but I want to thank someone." She said an actress she seldom worked with sent flowers to her dressing room on her last day with a nice note that said, you're amazing and you'll be very much missed, and I wish all good things for you. Signed.....Maeve Kinkead. That made me tear up a little (MARY!) What a class act.

Lisa Brown tribute was great. Loved hearing all the stories. I never knew she originally auditioned for Morgan.

JWS was so refreshing on the Locher Room. So articulate. And great stories to tell. Why hasn't he been on before. I know he's indicated his willingness to appear, but Alan always declines.

Alan has a hard on for JWS. He was afraid his boner would show.

My educated guess R122 is that JWS is making his money these days via appearances and when he was asked before probably wanted some kind of payment - but of course he was willing to do the tribute on his own time.

Did JWS mention Douggie Marland’s toes?

We're profoundly uninterested.

That Kookoosadora is annoying the good folks at SON.

anyway.....

Sing it Gurls

Fact: when Rachel Cory farted, this sound emerged from her ass.

I never thought Irene Dailey was the great actress so many had made her out to be. I considered her average.

Irene Daily was a big ole fat lez. She and Connie bumped pussies often.

shhhhhh

Vee, who is in the biz, is concocting a plan as we speak to retake SON from the loons. Vee and his army of mopey Carl, pervsudz, Khunt, dramatic nightmare, amc2008, and vicky fuckstick won’t stand for tonkaload to take over their board! He might even enlist eboneece, jerry, and johnnysbro to help!

shhhhhhh

R130, that is probably my favorite of all the AW themes.

Mine too, R136. It reminds me of being on the couch with Mom on one of my sick days.

It’s tuneful but I hated it because it played into the mentality that soaps were all about romance and supercouples and they weren’t. I think people watched them more for the intergenerational family stuff.

Lance's channel is fun.

MARY!

Lance is an annoying homo!

Give Lance a break. He's about the only one keeping the old organ-piano themes alive.

According to a post on The Locher Room Facebook page, Jerry ver Dorn has died.

r143

well fuck

Oh no. Despite my dykedom, I had a big crush on Jerry. I met him once, and he was such a handsome silver fox. Great energy. He gave gravitas to Ross, a character who was often sidelined. Though he wasn't really Clint Buchanan (OLTL) I loved watching him enjoy himself in the role.

I'm shocked.

I thought he was so sexy when the Ross/Blake affair started. I remember Soap Opera Digest suggesting he do a beefcake calendar at the time.

Jerry ver Dorn was very badly miscast as Clint Buchanan. He would have made much more sense as Herb Callison.

This is heartbreaking. So sad. He was really the cheerleader for GL and they fucked him over when they dropped his contract.

I guess Maeve Kinkead knew Jerry ver Dorn would be dying soon when she participated in the tribute to Lisa Brown. No doubt Alan will do one for him and include her, Viki Sleestak, Fiona Hutchison and Liz Keifer.

R150 Interesting thought. She seemed subdued. I thought what she said at the tribute was lovely. But then again it's Maeve. #classact

R12, I thought the same thing; apparently, Lisa worked as an acting coach so the newer actors knew her but I thought where is Gracie?

sad to hear about Jerry ver Dorn

Jerry ver Dorn Emmy Reel from 1996

Ross, Blake and the Senate run - that was great stuff.

I love that Mark Derwin used to routinely walk into a room with Jerry ver Dorn and announce, "Ladies and gentlemen, Jerry ver Dorn."

Very sorry to hear he's gone.

....

....

He was badly miscast on OLTL. He and Slezak had no romantic chemistry, not to mention that Clint Ritchie was irreplaceable.

R154 everyone thought Michael Sutton would win that year, but ver Dorn's victory was very well deserved based on his reel.

MARY!

BERT!

CARRIE!

VANESSA!

Has Vetsoapfan commented yet on the passing of an actor from THE Guiding Light? What about Vee?

Slee loved working with Jerry, though I agree she looked like she could be his mother.

The Jeff Giles book on OLTL has a lot of Jerry quotes in it. Mostly about OLTL and coworkers, but also this bit:

Ross Marler, my character on Guiding Light, started off as a black sheep. When I saw that he was becoming a good guy, I thought to myself, “Whoa. Sometimes this road leads nowhere for a lot of characters.” I had children, so I kind of wanted to keep the job. [Laughs] As they turned him into a virtuous person, I started making acting decisions -- every opportunity I could get to sort of subtly kick a puppy, I’d do it. That kept him a little interesting. At least out of the realm of cliche. I think it worked, right up to the end -- I was constantly badgering them.

I think JVD definitely livened it up a little with his acting choices, but the storylines for Ross over the years were in the deep end of stupid. Usually involving his character being lied to for months while he remained trusting and in the dark. He was a master at staring straight ahead while some dumb lie got discussed over and over again and Ross was clueless.

R165 I remember an interview with JVD around the time of or after the clone bit.

He said all the men on GL had to take turns "wearing the beanie." By that, he meant what you were mentioning - that whole stories would be fashioned out of someone not knowing the truth of what was happening. The "beanie wearer" just had to be intentionally stupid, or blissfully happy and not noticing lies and secrets, etc.

Ross was the "beanie" person a few times, for sure.

Robert Newman on FB:

"This one really hits hard. Jerry Ver Dorn was a wonderful actor and a beautiful person. He was one of my first role models. He actually was instrumental in getting me into Union service. He was our Aftra Deputy on Guiding Light, and eventually I took over for him in that role on the show. That planted seed led me to over a decade of serving on both the National and Local boards of Aftra, then Sag-Aftra after the merger. One of the finest human beings I've ever known. Rest peacefully, Jerry. "

When Kobe and Long started plugging their Texas duds on GL in 84, and they reduced Ross to doing scenes with Annabelle Gurswitch or whoever she was, I thought how shitty. They made Vanessa a potted plant and took William Roerick off contract for a time. I just saw red and hated both Kobe and Long. Jerry was the senior cast member at that point, and he's only been on 5 years. Yes, I know Charita was still around sporadically. I was glad he stuck around, those 2 bitches didn't value him and I am sure they got letters.

I’m STILL not over how they removed THE from TGL!

Erika Slezak on JVD:

“For anyone who knew Jerry verDorn, Sunday, May 1st, was a heartbreakingly sad day. He was a man of such warmth and kindness, talent, intelligence and most importantly humor, that every day spent working with him could hardly be called work. It was joy. He so loved what he did and was so very good at it. I was the very lucky recipient of his last 8 years in daytime and I thank God for that.

“He made every day one to look forward to. I will always think of him with that lovely, rather impish, smile on his face, and that will stay in my heart forever. I know that he has gone to a peaceful place, with no pain. I send my love and deepest sympathies to Beth and their sons and their families, of whom he was so very proud. They have lost a great man.”

Seems he couldn't get work in the 80s and 90s, he seemed like he was disenchanted with soaps. What did he do after 1979?

The Roger/Holly/Blake/Ross saga was so soapy. The writers seem to forget that Blake seduced Ross out of revenge though.

Sherry as Blake with JvD as Ross was fire. In every way, Liz Keifer was inferior. She worked on and off but the part needed someone way more dynamic.

Taking THE out of THE Guiding Light was like if they asked Jerry to take the VER out of VER Dorn!

^curmudgeon soapvetfan

Jerry had some great bedroom scenes on GL.

His eyes were sooooo blue and sexy. Before Grant, JVD was the sex symbol on GL.

Uhhhh, not really, R177.

R178 what do you know? You were rubbing it for Stefan Schanbel.

Before Grant and his penduloud dong hit my screen (figuratively, of course) I had the hots for Stephen Yates and Chris Bernau.

Oops, PENDULOUS dong.

R180 for your grammatical error you get TEN! thwacks from the pendulousness.

Dr Stephen Jackson made my granny moist.

I’ll never understand why he was known as Steve Jackdon but he had the thickest German accent I’ve ever heard.

Papa Bauer alsp had an accent. I always assumed they added him as a sort of replacement.

.....

Gossip: Tom Pelphrey is dating Kaley Cuoco.

I thought she was a total lez, but Tom likes women, so he must be "dating" her to raise his profile.

Has someone informed dlisted that it's THE Guiding Light?

r187

god I wish he liked cock

Jerry VerDorn character Ross sleeping with his girlfriend (Holly) daughter (Blake) happened at the same time as the Mia/Woody/Soon-Yi scandal happened,

Asked to comment, JVD took Woody's side, saying there was nothing wrong with Woody & Soon-Yi being together

It will always be THE Guiding Light.

.....

R189 He has BDE and BDF

Vee, who’s in the biz, knew that Jerry verDorn was sick. Vee knows everything! Vee, who’s in the biz is coordinating all of the condolences. Vee is a martyr, you know. Vee knows everything!

They almost made Jerry ver Dorn drop the “ver” from “ver Dorn.” But Vee, who is in the biz, knew what a big failure it was when they dropped THE from THE GUIDING LIGHT. Huge failure. Things were never the same.

THE jerryVerDorn wanted THE put back into TGL. Jerry was a union fighter! Get THE put back into TGL! Unions forever!

They wanted Jerry Dorn, but Vee, who is in the biz, intervened to let him keep Ver. He knew that soap fans love fat things, especially fat names, Fat Ed, Fat Bert, Fat Mo, Fat Reva, Fat Beth, fat scenes.

I loved the Texas-ication of GL. Kobe and Long breathed new life into a really stale show. The Bauers were boring and ugly and fat, and it was smart of Kobe and Long to marginalize them. Don Stewart's Mike was so pompous, there was no loss there. Peter Simon's Ed was so dour and depressing, you wanted to take a bath with a plugged in hair dryer whenever he and MO appeared on screen. Their once-weekly appearances were appreciated. Elvera's Hope got fat so she had to go. As for Charita, well let's just say that Bert was on her last leg. Bye, Bauers! Hello Texas!

Gail Kobe and Pam Long brought GL’s ratings WAY up! There was no TGL. It was Guiding Light. GL beat General Hospital in the ratings. Thank you Gail and Pam!

Anyways.

I still maintain that if they had recast Dennis Cole as Ed and Shannon Tweed as Maureen, the Bauers could've gained some much-needed Hollywood glamour and sex appeal and remained a strong and vital family unit. Instead we got coma inducing NY theater actors Simon and Parker. Parker, in particular, was a cure for insomnia. My beloved JFP got that one right!

Quiet, Greg.

The focus group got it right about boring Maureen Bauer. She would never ever be Bert Bauer, especially with mopey, always unhappy Peter Simon there. We wanted fat Ed back!

Anymore celebs commenting on JvD’s passing?

Fat Ed had fat, ugly toes, so he had to go.

[QUOTE] He got fat.

He looks fine. Weight phobics on here need to shut it. Go do a 7 hour workout with Vadge if you're so into fitness.

A reminder to FF/block the mentally ill troll in all of its personas.

- Any mentions of "Fat Ed" or Fat anything

- Posts rambling on about whether the name of the show includes "The" or not

- Mentions of snatches being eaten

- Suggestions that Savannah Tweed or Cameron Mathison should replace serious thespians in a given cast

This and more are the repetitive, OCD postings of a fucking loon. Do not engage. Blockity block block.

[quote] Quiet, Greg.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Is it true that Mary Stuart (aka Mary Stewart) tried to have all the McCleary actors fired? I can believe she had a meltdown when she first saw this.

I was watching Chopping Mall, and Russell Todd was in it. What a throwback.

Mmm hmm.

Anyone remember Dr. Daniel St. John on Guiding Light? He was a doctor who was pursuing Holly. That, of course, put him in the middle of Roger's crosshairs. They built up his backstory -- apparently he killed someone by mistake and got away with it and was being stalked by the victim's sister -- before turning him into a total psycho who kidnapped Holly and had to be gunned down like a rabid dog..

Did the show intend to make him a leading man before finally recognizing his utter and complete lack of charisma? GL spent months building him up. Or did the story work out as intended? The man was the equivalent of a sleep aid. Hell, Ed was more exciting than this dude.

Did Mo Garrett ever get it on with Geri Court or Marsha Clark?

I’d have loved to see the threesome of Mo, Geri and masculine Marsha! Yum yum

r212

I thought he was hot

I’m with you, R215.

In fact, as a young gayling circa 1991 or so, I cruised the actor heavily as he was leaving the old Mary Ann’s on 8th Avenue in Chelsea. I like that broody type.

Is Bishins a gay?

R218 Social media indicates he lives with (is married to) a woman named Samantha and their son.

If I remember right, the actor who played Daniel St. John pissed a few people off at GL and was killed off as a result. That was gossip that floated up at the old RATSC board, anyway.

One of the GL folks mentioned what a pain in the ass Bishins was. He constantly complained about everything. And yes, he was killed off because he was such a pain.

......

[quote]Is it true that Mary Stuart (aka Mary Stewart) tried to have all the McCleary actors fired? I can believe she had a meltdown when she first saw this.

I doubt if Mary had that kind of power at that point. But I bet she dropped F-bombs all over the place when she saw that opening. Oh, Mary!

Mary wasn't Jo, that's for sure.

That final SFT opening, from the awful music to the McCleary-heavy montages, reeks of desperation. What was P&G thinking? Did they really think that opening and some hunky brothers could save this show?

Nein.

Oh, this is lovely *sobs*

^^ ps:: comments from Maeve, Michael O'Leary, Elvira Roussel and Mr. Pendulous in that article

Where is Cindy Pickett’s statement? Or Tom Neilsen?

The McClearys were the protype for the Ford Bros on OLTL. Search just couldn't afford a steam room for weekly brotherly sweats.

Will Ellen Holly, as the only surviving African American original cast member of OLTL, be issuing a statement on behalf of the Llanview family? She better not let Slee, or "the third Viki", as she refers to her in her archives interviews, beat her to the punch.

I hated when they dropped THE from As THE World Turns. I loved all of their fat characters. Fat Nancy, Fat Lisa, Fat Lily, Fat Emma, Fat Jake.

ATWT actresses were driven to drinking and DUIs after they dropped THE from the title.

Why didn't they drop "the" from "Another World"? "Anor World" has a nice ring to it. A nice skinny ring. No more fat Ada, fat Mac, fat Blaine, fat Clarice, fat Aunt Lez, fat Jim, fat Steve, fat Marianne. Fat fat fat fat fat.

......

The Emmy nominations this year were a dud. No Deidre Hall. The shrieking harpy Laura Wright got another nomination. Many actors from Y&R and B&B got nominated despite doing nothing all year.

The Daytime Emmys have ALWAYS been a joke. Now with just four of those dinosaurs left, they're a colossal joke.

[quote] Many actors from Y&R and B&B got nominated despite doing nothing all year.

Who needs a year's worth of storyline, when it's based on a reel under 15 minutes?

Y&R and B&B vote together. Daytime Emmys, except the first five years, have always sucked because the nominating process is fucked and easy to rig and people just vote for their friends or people with a track record regardless if the work for that year deserved it or not.

La Bergman could fart in a tin can and still get a nomination.

The DT Emmys were always a joke and are even more so now.

I love how couplings could still surprise viewers back in the day. During these 1991 Guiding Light episodes, Mallet circled Mindy during his romance with that mob mistress who only lasted a few months. Yet Mindy and Mallet remained just friends because the show sprung Nick McHenry out of nowhere, and steered Mallet toward Harley (who spent the beginning of the year getting over her breakup with Josh and circling Alan-Michael).

Meanwhile, Eleni and Frank can't seem to get it together. Alan-Michael is taking advantage of that. Blake, who is Alan-Michael's most recent ex-wife (who has dated Frank a few times), has decided she wants Alan-Michael back, so she's shitting on Eleni every chance she gets. Yet Blake doesn't really end up with Alan-Michael or Frank. She ends up with Ross, who at this point, isn't even in contention. Eleni marries Alan-Michael AND Frank at different times, for different reasons, with different consequences.

And that's just a piece of what's happening on this multifaceted canvas.

These days shows force pairings down viewers throats and demand we accept and root for them, even when they're chemistry-free and make not a lick of sense. There is no build-up -- only insta-couples put together via committee mandate.

Social media demands that a couple be given a smushname hashtag after their first scene together, and some fraus declare them a supercouple and start clipping their scenes.

THE Guiding Light had so many fat smushnames that included at least one FAT character: Edita (Ed+Rita), Bilt (Bill+Bert), Bardam (Barbara+Adam). Then they dropped the "THE" and axed/killed off the fat characters, and the show was never the same. I still hold a grudge against P&G.

[quote] I still hold a grudge against P&G.

At least Pfizer (Wyeth-American Home Products) has already let fans know that when its reboot of The Secret Storm happens, it will remain THE Secret Storm. .. None of that P&G bullcrap for them!

That joke is more dead than that girl who rotted into her own couch because the parents didn't help.

Where is an As World Turns reboot?

nein

Last I heard, on some channel in China.

Greg/Gregg shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The freaking loon KooKoodora at SON is polluting that place again. Off the charts whackjob. Even Vee, who’s in the biz, is silent. KooKoodora is crazier than Allmc2008, if that’s even possible.

Amc2008 is a perv! SON is full of fat pervs!

When THE Edge of Night dropped the "The" and made the title skinnier, most of the male actors lost a ton of weight and became skinny too. It's almost as if the title change was an omen of things to come.

In protest of TGL dropping THE in 1977, ABC has announced that GH will be renamed to The General Hospital on its 60th birthday and Corday/NBC will rebrand Days to The Days of Our Lives on its 60th birthday in 2025. Making the shows fatter. It’s about time! Fat Epiphany on GH and Fat Nancy on Days welcomed this news.

He was a fag.

Search for Tomorrow would actually have sounded better as "THE Search for Tomorrow." Fat Stu and Fat Stephanie would've approved.

THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS has remained number one because it has two THEs and the Bells wisely kept the show’s fat name. TYATR also had Fat Traci, Fat Nina, Fat Mamie, Fat John, Fat Mariah, Fat Cassie, Fat Kay, etc.

^Don't forget me!

We all cringe whenever someone gets lazy and refers to TYATR as just Y&R!!!! It is THE Young and THE Restless.

Long was a great writer, but she needed another great writer to pep up her stuff. Some of her work was brilliant and some was ehhh. One thing is for sure when she was writing her shows always had some much-watch content.

Long and Kobe killed my beloved TGL by decimating the Bauers and bringing everyone who was ever employed at the soap Texas, which was cancelled under their watch. You better believe I’m still bitter about Kobe and Long. Fuck, I’m still angry over THE being dropped 45 years ago from THE Guiding Light.

Every writers has weaknesses. And almost all writers do better with a partner or someone who can push against their excesses.

Long and Marland were in some ways yin and yang - Long's weakness was that she could only write for a certain percentage of the cast at one time, while one Marland issue was that he kept creating characters and always tried to make the canvas bigger.

Marland broke his own rules. He’s full of shit. He had moments of greatness. Moments. Not years.

I wonder how Long and Marland would have faired as a team.

They did like each other. Would their styles clash like Nixon and Marland did on Loving?

[quote]They did like each other. Would their styles clash like Nixon and Marland did on Loving?

YES and YES

Frank Beaty 1996 Daytime Emmy Reel

Reel #1 - Brent kills Nadine Cooper

Reel #2 - Brent's sister confronts him about his obsession with Lucy Cooper

Frank Beaty and Rick Hearst. Now THERE was a couple!

That fucken KooKoo Bridges needs to shut the Fuck up! Crazy bitch. God damned cunt is ruining boards. Dye already. Says everyone. Fucken nutjob.

shhhhhhh

R265 That was such a great storyline. Dark and deep. GL had two of those- Sonni/Solita and Brent/Marion. Epic.

I think Reinhold was probably good in the sack, although perhaps a tad selfish. I bet if he came first he’d be outta there before you finished.

I loved Sonni/Solita!

Or R267 you could shut the fuck up. No one cares about who you hate on another board.

r272 you could always choose NOT to share Spicen's post numbers. You're right. We don't care about him. And now I don't care about you.

That crazy Serial Monticello Edge is at it again.

Vee, who is in the biz, is buying SON. Vee is in the biz, you know. The biz!

Respectfully to those who have advocated to block and ignore - an approach I agreed with for a long time - I think we're getting well beyond the point where that's even a remotely effective approach.

This poster has 3 or 4 sock puppets, and the content he postes here is well beyond eccentric - he clearly has mental health issues. Despite calling others he dislikes "nutjobs" a sane person would not ever think about, much less post about, some of these extreme OCD obsessions.

It's quite one thing to hear about other posters at other boards by their usernames, but this poster is now posting material here that uses someone's real first and last name.

Appeasement is not working.

Alan’s most recent Locher Room was with Susan Scannell. She wasn’t terribly interesting until she brought up being sexually harrasssed on Dynasty and it seemed to be by a woman, not a man. I wonder who it was. Linda Evans? The director Gabrielle Beaumont?

Watching that epic Sonni/Solita unfold which as as soapy as soap opera gets, all in the best way, watching two acting powerhouses lock horns (the tension was palatable b/w them), watching Michele Forbes in her best role (she has to know it) act the shit out of an amazingly interesting character(s) was heaven.

Brent/Marian was dark. And it was great. Frank Beaty was sexy asf. He could act. He was compelling. I wish he had a better victim (Sonia Satra was not a good actress). Still, it was dark, darkly funny, scary, chilling, sick, twisted.

Isn’t Megan McTavish of the lesbian persuasion?

Michelle Forbes posted today on Insta, apologizing for her “wretched” character on New Amsterdam. God, I wish Alan could get her for an interview.

can you link or recap r280?

"The part of Ed Bauer is now being played by the wildly sexy Dennis Cole."

Oh, how I had longed to hear that announcement. The Bauer actors were all ugly sad sacks. They needed someone hot and sexy like Mr. Cole to energize that boring family. And of course, once he was cast, that coma-inducing Parker would have to have been axed asap and replaced with someone looks-appropriate with Mr. Cole. As if Mr. Cole would've looked twice at someone as homely as Parker. Alas.

Linda Dano is 79 today!

I hope that ALL of you are contributing to FAT Casey’s donation bon to keep that god-awful The Chat podcast on the air! All that he’s asking is $4.99 a month. More if you can spare it. It’s well worth it to keep fat Casey and Ugly Alan and stereotypical angry black guy on the air! Go donate!! And donate often.

Nein.

Click here, r281.

I remember that guy from my high school days. We called him "Jut Jaw".

R286 how very kind, thank you!

R283 add three years.

Of course I meant palpable at R278 Oh dearing myself.

The Sonni/Solita and Brent/Marian stories actually do have a few things in common - uncharacteristically dark for GL, both sort of rambled and had lots of changes, either because of the writer's strike (Sonni/Solita) or network interference (Marian).

And even when you weren't quite sure what was going on, the performances were captivating on both. At least until Beaty lost his shit.

R291 How did the network interfere with the Brent/Marian storyline? Was it too intense for daytime? It was a very intense, dark storyline but utterly captivating. There was nothing like it on daytime (same with Sonni/Solita) at least not nearly as well done or effective.

I actually think the writers strike helped Sonni/Solita. It was so crazy (in the best way) and the twists and turns were freaking fun and wild.

R292 It was originally supposed to be longer in the holding-Lucy-hostage section. Like, months long.

I've heard conflicting stories on this but originally Brent wasn't supposed to kill as many characters as he did. Jean Carol's contract was coming up and the network mandated that story and just slipped that in there, without much thought as to how the audience would react.

I still LOL that Marian was made up to look like Jill Farren Phelps.

R239 I didn’t care that Nadine died esp with her starting to have “visions”. I never really cared that much about her. Though, watching the scene it was very sad and quite chilling. I never thought the actress very good, but she was very good in that scene.

Frank Beaty had the mental issues.

I liked Nadine and thought the show needed a character like her, but she was definitely overexposed with Buzz for a while.

r294, I remember back in the day not caring for Nadine and thinking Jean Carol was not very good (certainly not within the context of how good that show was in 1991-4). I also thought then she got a lot better once the Billy story ended (and I don't think it's an accident she is in the Emmy reel for one of Deas' wins as well as Beaty's tape, which was certainly worthy of winning).

Watching on YT all these years later, I realize she's a perfectly competent actress playing a badly drawn character, who could ber overmatched by better actors (Clarke, Kinkead, Hayden), but learned on the job how not to be (and then played with Satra later, which will make anyone look better).

Nadine was created by Pamela Long Hammer

One of the reason they got rid of Nadine was because she was so connected to Buzz. With Kim Zimmer returning, TPTB wanted to pair Reva with Buzz. So they had nothing left for Nadine (and needed Jean Carol salary to pay Kim Zimmer)

They should've written Nadine off and not kill her off.

Everyone was so glad when Bev McKinsey finally left the show from being “overworked.” Bev had the fewest hours, vacations for weeks at a time, but she constantly complained and held up production. The actors and crew went out for a celebration when they got the news.

oh btw Jean Carol was cast by legendary casting director Betty Rea - she knew talent when she saw it

I thought Jean Carol's Nadine was a perfectly good character and portrayal. I bought everything related to the Billy-Nadine-Bridget story. And I bought her as the mother of Frank and Harley.

The problem with killing her off (like killing Maureen off) was the lack of follow-through, not the death itself. (Of course, Nadine was expendable and Maureen was NOT. So there was a difference.)

Boreen Bauer was very expendable. She was a snore.

R298 exactly. Nadine (Deenie!) had bolted before, it makes sense she would do it again.

But by then everything was an explosion or a bloody murder.

You can really see McTavish's hands on the Brent story on GL. She almost always started with a bang but then ended in disaster.

Everyone said “good riddance” when Lazy Alex and Fat Mo finally left!

It was hard to tell a good story with Bev holding up production and Mo putting the audience to sleep!

I thought Nadine was a badly written character played by a mediocre actress.

The Locher Room today with four Edge of Night actresses was good. Sandy Faison is funny. But someone needs to point out to Alan that Dick van Dyke wasn’t on Eight is Enough (Faison replaced Betty Buckley as Abby Bradford for a 1989 TV movie).

I enjoyed the Locher Room interview with the Edge of Night actresses. I was impressed with how each of them found something to do outside of acting, but they stayed connected with the arts in some way. They seemed like they genuinely like each other.

Nadine was annoying. There were times I saw why she was liked, though. Long was great but wrote some dud characters. Betty Rea also cast some absolute stinkers.

I thought the Brent story stayed great until the very very end, but some of that was the actor going nuts.

"Betty Rea also cast some absolute stinkers."

Sacrilege! You take that back, bitch!

Megan McTavish understood THE Guiding Light more than any HW from the 1980s and 1990s.

[quote] She almost always started with a bang but then ended in disaster.

Also a hallmark of David Kreizman

We could do an entire thread on all the actors who were fired to pay for other actors.

R313, do it!

I liked Jean Carol very much. She was quite adept at comic relief and saying things the audience was thinking.

For example, earlier this week I watched some old episodes from 1992. This was at the height of Alex trying to prove to Nick that he was her son. When Nadine met Nick, she asked if it were true. "Are you a Spaulding?" When Nick said it wasn't true (he still didn't believe it at the time), Nadine said, "Too bad." The looks on the faces of Nick, Mindy, and Billy were hilarious!

To me there were worse actors who overstayed their welcome. In fairness, though, they tended to be younger and embroiled in frontburner storylines--soaps' bread and butter. Jean Carol was a far better actor than Morgan Englund (as is my cat!), but who would women and gay men rather watch roll around atop a bed while giving awkward line readings?

The hot guy always wins. This week in this very thread, several posters said how hot they found the Daniel St. John actor after I complained about his lack of charisma. Note, I never once mentioned his looks. But looks and youth ARE important to a segment of the audience.

R315 Morgan should have been replaced with a better actor. See, Betty Rea was not perfect. She saw true talent when it was in front of her, but if it wasn’t she could make bad choices.

Maybe Morgan was fine in the audition process and just wasn't suited for daytime. Not everyone is. Some actors need A LOT of rehearsal and direction. You get neither in daytime, there's just not enough time.

R317 Just ask so many great GL actors who’ve gone on to have great HW careers like Michelle Forbes. She said the grind at GL was too intense. I think it was the Locher Room with Brittany Snow, Paul Wesley, and Tammy Blanchard. Having to memorize dozens or pages of dialogue a day plus long hours, plus little rehearsal, plus acting against actors who’ve played their roles for years and years isn’t easy.

R318 I meant I think it was the Locher Room with those successful HW actors where all of them said how hard daytime was.

Daytime is easy now. Most shows have at least 15 dark weeks per year. Boom! Easy 15 week vacation. Then factor in that guarantees are so minuscule now. No one gets more than a 2 episode per week guarantee so the most played actors, at most, work 60 to 70 days per year because they tape in blocks. Not a bad gig.

Lazy Beverlee would love the schedule now. On top of all the weeks off, now you can’t go over time so you are always out early. It’s a breeze.

I also liked Jean Carol/ Nadine. The Nadine/Billy/Vanessa triangle really worked because Nadine and Vanessa were polar opposites. Billy really loved Vanessa (a woman with brains and wit who challenged him) but fell (settled?) for Nadine (who just accepted him for who he was, flaws and all). I thought Jean Carol did a great job playing the lifetime of longing she felt just searching for a rich, big-hearted man like Billy who would love her. And of course there was some great rivalry between Vanessa and Nadine. I remember a sequence with Nadine throwing a garden party and Vanessa was so snobby about poor Nadine’s efforts to look sophisticated.

Fuck, I'd have given my right leg to attend one of Nadine's garden parties. I never met the dumb bitch, but anyone who has the balls the go up against that snooty cunt Vanessa is alright in my book. Was that big ole queen Henry part of that storyline? What a fag!

Betty Rea was a great casting director, but part of that was being able to see a "diamond in the rough." Soap acting is such a particular thing, and there's a lot of guesswork as to whether someone can do it. You can be a trained actor and not play subtext well, or not be good at the kind of small brushstrokes soaps require at all.

Tammy Blanchard was a great example of someone who was flat and uninteresting when they started and then blossomed. But Lisa Brown was her on-set acting coach and that helped tremendously. (Lisa also said she was a bit loony, and was a lot of work, but clearly that work paid off.)

Cynthia Watros was a Betty find, too, and they must have seen something in her to build a contract role around her.

Bad casting can sometimes be about the producer or writer sending mixed messages or being unclear about what they want....which is how we got Ann Hamilton and then Barbara Crampton as Mindy.

I'm sure they hoped Morgan would blossom and be more like his mama Cloris, but it didn't happen. As it was, he was OK in an Aaron Eckhart sort of way, but he just never developed a stage presence beyond the basics.

R322 I liked Nadine a lot and thought a lot of her earlier run was the best for the character, both in the Pam years and in the early Curlee run. Vanessa and Nadine was reminiscent of the best of Vanessa/Nola. In some ways she reminded me of Ilene Kristen, but again, an actress like Ilene is best used as a comedic foil or a supporting actress. When Buzz and Nadine were pushed to the front burner later in Curlee's run, it wasn't as compelling.

Miss Locher worships at the altar of Betty Rea.

shhhh

Who will Miss Locher get for the inevitable JvD tribute? The usual suspects? Maeve, Grant, Zimmer, Newman, Kiefer, maybe Slee.

[quote] Bad casting can sometimes be about the producer or writer sending mixed messages or being unclear about what they want....which is how we got Ann Hamilton and then Barbara Crampton as Mindy.

Betty cast Kimberly Simms in the role of Mindy - finding an actress to replace Simms was tough not because of Betty Rea, but because of Jill Farren Phelps.

I'm pretty JFP vetoed many women Betty brought to her. Barbara Crampton herself said she NEVER auditioned for Betty Rea. It was Jill Farren Phelps who offered her the role without even a screentest. All Phelps wanted was her demo reel and that was enough for JFP to offer her the role.

So some duds on Guiding Light you can't blame on Betty Rea - many times a producers will not listen to the casting director and cast who they want

The recast of Kimberly Simms was one of those times, it was all Jill Farren Phelps decision

Betty was no spring chicken when she left but I'm sure after a fair amount of JFP casting like that, she probably said fuck it. Seems like JFP was bypassing her and casting the show herself on many of the larger roles.

Betty Rea transitioned out of being the casting director during the Michael Laibson years (year). I think she remained with the show to sort of coach the next person (whose name I forget) and then by the time the Rauch nightmare started, it was all him (Rauch) and his soft core porn casting choices - models with good cheekbones but who couldn't act for shit. The guy playing Jessie Blue comes to mind.

I JO to a pic of Betty Rea every night before I go to bed.

Robin Strasser just thew major share at Paul Rauch on twitter about how he treated Michael Zaslow during his last days on "Guiding Light"

Tweeting

TEA's being served: #GL was at that time EP'ed by #PaulRauch who detested physical weakness-The decline in Michael's health repelled Rauch. #BrynnThayer who was a close friend of Michael's knew WORK was lifeblood & the best medicine for him so...

Robin follows up

"#BrynnThayer had played Jenny on #OLTL we stayed close-& went into action. She made an appeal to #ABCnetwork-I went to awesome Head Writer #ClaireLabine & she said "I'll take #MichaelZaslow even if he's in a wheelchair" By his 1st show he did need to be in a wheelchair-ALStinks"

"#MichaelZaslow loved acting on #OLTL again. The show made arrangement for a special elevator for him. The #OLTLfanclubLunch came around & he wanted to go to & thank the fans-& he did-We held back our entrances so that he could enter alone-the loud applause was music to his ears:)"

Follow up to Robin last tweet - Fiona Hutchison (who was on OLTL, then on GL when Michael was fired) showed up at the OLTL luncheon to show her support and let Michael, the OLTL cast & crew, plus all the OLTL fans know that the entire company of GL (cast & crew) is 100% behind Michael and opposed his firing

Wouldn't you know, a few months after Fiona made that speech, she herself would get the ax!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]Daytime is easy now

No it's not. Daytime is hard and can be mentally exhausting.

Care to share the tweets in the OLTL thread, R332? I've linked it below if you do.

I wish Robin would write a book. I'm sure she knows where most of the bodies are buried.

Then we'll need someone to write a book and talk about Robin because you know Robin's not going to admit to being a complete and utter nightmare.

So glad to read that about Fiona supporting Michael Z. I'm such a fan. I loved Gabrielle and Jenna. Fiona was great at playing beautiful, flawed, doomed women.

Rauch wasn't wrong. TV, especially daytime, is an entirely visual medium on attractive people. He knew that GED housewives and old biddies who made up most of GL's viewership didn't want to see a wizened sick old man day after day. Not saying he was ethically right, but from a business standpoint, he did what he had to do. Even Lil Hayman would've defended Rauch in this instance.

Pour that tea, Birdie!

Betty Rea put Ann Hamilton through when they were casting Simms’ replacement, though.

[quote]Betty Rea put Ann Hamilton through when they were casting Simms’ replacement, though.

After Jill Farren Phelps rejected everyone else Betty Rea recommended

For instance Catherine Hickland (Lindsay OLTL) DESPERATELY wanted to audition, her good friend Vince Irrizarry tried to go to bat for her.

But JFP could not be swayed - she felt Hickland was all wrong for the part, and wouldn't even let her read for the part.

r340

HMM.. I don't think she would have been a good Mindy? Thoughts?

Does JFP have a name?

I actually didn't think Ann Hamilton was terrible as Mindy, but they were clearly trying to make her more whimsical or something with the change - they didn't give her enough time.

Barbara Crampton aged Mindy a decade in five minutes and I never believed her in the role.

Ann hamilton was awful. They left her too long.

JFP is Jill Farren Phelps.

She was the EP of Another World, Guiding Light, One Life to Live, General Hospital, Santa Barbara and Young and the Restless.

She is also a showkiller who specializes in killing off beloved legacy characters, infuriating the fans and cast, while firing other actors and replacing them with “Friends of Jill,” actors who hop from soap to soap.

Some of her greatest hits include: killing off Maureen Bauer, Frankie Frame and Alan Quartermaine; being a dismissive cunt to Bev McKinsey, leading to her departure from GL; allowing Justin Deas to take over GL and swallow the show; turning General Hospital into a low budget Sopranos.

Catherine Hickland would have been a bad Mindy. Too damn old like Barbara Crampton was.

Can't really see Catherine Hickland as Mindy. I like Cat, but she would have been very wrong for Mindy. Even more wrong than Barbara Crampton was as Mindy.

[quote]Some of her greatest hits include: killing off Maureen Bauer, Frankie Frame and Alan Quartermaine; being a dismissive cunt to Bev McKinsey, leading to her departure from GL; allowing Justin Deas to take over GL and swallow the show; turning General Hospital into a low budget Sopranos.

Also firing Robin Strasser from OLTL in 2000.

Causing Genie Francis to quit GH in 2002 by refusing to give her time off for a vacation.

You know who would have been a decent Mindy?

Melanie Smith from As The World Turns. She could have played a tougher version of the Mindy that Simms was playing.

Of course in any of this we have to acknowledge that Tesreau's Mindy and Simms' Mindy are almost two different characters. In a good way, not in a let's reinvent this character and then call them by the same name, in name only thing ATWT did so often (see under Grayson McCouch's Dusty).

Tesreau’s Mindy was limited. She would have needed perfect writing and she could have worked great. Simms’ Mindy just took her to another level. It was beautiful. Also, Tesreau could not act. Simms had tremendous chemistry with so many actors male and female.

For me the soap killer was Paul Rauch, bringing his porno fetish to daytime and killing GL by saturating it with Reva, playing all triangles, and sinking the show to levels from which it never recovered. I've said it before - the list of JFP sins is noted far and wide, but then the same people think clones via miraclegro and a sagging princess on some made-up fictional island are just the most fun they've ever had watching a soap.

I never saw the soap pairing of Steve and Alice on "Another World." I did see George Reinholt and Jacquie Courtney on "One Life To Live." I thought they worked very well together. But that pairing was not nearly as popular as when they were Steve and Alice.

George Reinholt was "Soap's Bad Boy." He was on the Sally Jessy Raphael show where he said that long after his career as a soap star was over he saw a magazine in a supermarket with him on the cover as the "Bad Boy" of soaps. ET did a sad story on him; it showed him living in a converted garage, with a picture of him and Jacquie Courtney on the wall. The story reported that he had put out an ad, hiring himself out as an escort. He insisted that it was all very proper, that it was NOT sex for hire, and that he just would accept a fee for escorting a lady to the theater or out to dinner to out to play Bingo. He supposedly was putting out a memoir called "Rogue Actor" which I thought might be interesting, but I don't it ever happened. He died of cancer at age 73.

Jacquie Courtney had what might be a sad ending, too. She died of metastatic melanoma at age 64.

Both George and Jacquie were of the old school of soap acting, best parodied in those scenes in "Mommie Dearest."

Ann Hamilton screamed Beth, not Mindy. Ann was the Karen Cellini of daytime.

True, Ann would have made a much better Beth.

R355 No. Ann has dull and had no spark. Judi, and then later on Beth C, had spark, weren’t dull, and could act. Remember, Beth was someone every guy fell in love with. Ann wouldn’t have elicited that reaction.

Ann looks a bit like Jan Hooks here.

Interesting episode....the beginning of the end for Maureen.

R353, Reinholt and Courtney may seem old school now, but their story is what made Another World must-see TV back then. Of course, Robin Strasser's Rachel is what really pushed ratings over the top. I remember my grandmother used to scream every time Strasser came on screen .... that's when I knew they had a winner.

What about Robin Morehart/Hunter Tylo as Mindy? She was coming off a relatively popular role as Robin on AMC in 1987/88.

Considering Blond actresses are a dime a dozen, I don't understand why it was so hard for them recast the part of Mindy after Kimberly Simms

I mean Betty Rea went to LA, Chicago, Seattle and dozens of other cities. and they couldn't find anyone?

They should have asked Cali Timmins (Maggie - Ryan's Hope) now that would be a "Mindy"

Finally this thread is having great discussions!

Kimberly Simms was my favorite Mindy. She is one of those actresses that surpassed the original. I loved the way she would delivery her lines. Also GL was just so good during that time period. Curlee, Demorest and Reilly was just the magic trio.

R362 A perfect example of how network and sponsor interference ruined the soaps. By 1994 CBS and P&G suits (who didn't even watch the show) were micromanaging and putting in their size-able 65 cents on everything. No sane writer would put up with that. And thus only hacks remained in the business, starting with Megan McTavish.

Actresses the same age as Kimberly Simms (who could AUDITION for the part of Mindy)

Marla Maples, Laura Dean (from the movie FAME), Britta Phillips, Nicole Fosse (daughter of Bon Fosse), Karen Moncrieff (Gabrielle, DOOL), Julie Ronnie (Santa Barbara), Olivia Birkelund (Arlene, AMC), Tori Amos, Claudia Lonow (Knots Landing), Andrea McArdle (Annie), Alice Ripley, Susan Marie Snyder (Julie ATWT), Cali Timmins (Ryan's Hope)

Olivia Birkelund? She was terrific on AMC, but she would've been too old to play Mindy.

[quote] Olivia Birkelund? she would've been too old to play Mindy.

She and Kimberly Simms are the same age

Marla Maples?! I know she did day player work pre-Donald and appeared on an episode of Loving as herself, but by 1992/93, the chance of her regularly doing a soap wasn't likely.

^Really? I mean she did look on the young side to be playing Ripa's mother, but she didn't look THAT young.

They should have rested the character after Kimberly Simms was done. There was need for a recast and they could have moved the "Mindy energy" to another character.

Marcy Walker was coming on the show amid big fan fare - maybe they could have hired her to play Mindy

R370. MW didn’t have the energy and spark to play Mindy. Dull.

Too butch.

They should've lured Charlene Tilton to play Mindy. Now that would've worked out very well.

Ellen Wheeler & Lisa Trusel (DOOL) were unemployed, maybe they could've auditioned as well

Elizabeth Mitchell was let-go from Loving at this time, maybe Betty Rea should;ve made a play for her to audition for Minday

Instead of hiring Liz Keifer to play Blake, I think she would have been a better replacement for Mindy. I liked, Liz, but the Blake character was irrevocably changed to accommodate her strengths, something I think worked against the character in the end.

Liz was NOT Mindy. Or Blake.

McCunty was a lazy, overrated actress. Her co-workers were secretly happy when she selfishly up and quit with no notice. She sounded like a hyper-narcissist.

Fair enough, R377. How do you feel about Mary Beth Evans? If she had joined Guiding Light instead of General Hospital after she left DAYS in 1992, do you think she would have been a good Mindy?

R379 I don’t know her work. I think Simms portrayed the perfect Mindy personality. I honestly don’t know if Simms made Mindy recastable. Alexandra fit this category. Reva, as well. There are certain roles, either because of actor or writing, weren’t replaceable.

No offense but some of you don't really seem to get the essence of who the character of Mindy was. Some of these actress ideas are just dead wrong.

No offense taken. Just spitballing.

I was surprised Simms never showed up anywhere else. She seems to have made quite an impression. Simms played Mindy when I discovered the show, so she's my preference as well.

Also, I don't like Tesreau. A lot of that is probably biased because she stunk up One Life to Live as Tina. Watching old GL clips of her Mindy and she's only passable. Simms definitely gave the role dimension and power.

I like the idea of Mary Beth Evans on Guiding Light, but not as Mindy. I'd cast her as a member of the Bauer or Reardon families.

R382, both Mindys are extremely nice.

I honestly think of them as practically different characters.

Tesreau's Mindy was adorable and spoiled; Simms' was adult, mature; I couldn't picture Tesreau's Mindy with Roger.

Getting back to the original show in this thread, does anyone remember Audra Lindley as Liz Matthews back in the day? She was not merely a busybody like Irene Dailey, Audra was a stone-cold meddling bitch!

Carrington Garland would’ve been a good Mindy.

Tichina Arnold would've been a good Mindy.

R385 These threads are about all P&G shows regardless of the thread title.

But we never mind good chat and gossip about Aunt Liz!

Liz never minded a good piece of gossip, of course.

Dorian Strassman is a miserable OLD cunt. She clashed with everyone. Never forget how Phil Carey marched up to Linda Gottlieb’s office and told her that she better not put him in any scenes with that ‘bitch’ when he found out that they fired Elaine Princi in favor of bringing the cunt back. Queenie Michael Logan wrote in TV Guide about how the OLTL crew dreaded having the miserable Strassman return.

Mary Beth Evans was a surprisingly good Sierra on ATWT. Of all the "big name" recasts during Goutman's reign of terror, MBE was the only one that worked.

I wish JFP had gotten her hands on ATWT. I think she would've Maureen Bauer-ed Kim AND Iva. Kathy Hays, with her overused kiddo and toots shtick, was lethally dull, and Lisa Brown was such a sad-sack to the point of suicide-inducing. JFP would've recognized that and taken appropriate steps. She then would've rightly backburnered the Hughes and Snyder families into oblivion and brought on A Martinez and built the show around his character and spicy new Latinx family. She would've tossed a bone to the veteran viewers and recast Andy with Tim Gibbs, now an amoral money-hungry gay for pay escort going by the name of Drew.

^Sounds good! I was relieved when she killed off Baureen Bauer. And she would have driven away that Liz Hubbard and her myriad of acting ticks. Kim Hughes was another sleep inducing character.

We're all debating who would have been the best replacement Mindy but if JFP hadn't been so fucking cheap and unwilling to listen to input from her actors, she would have kept Simms and given her more money....and kept McKinsey, using her less and/or not burning her out. Bev would have probably stayed at least a few more years.

I thought MBE was wrong. Sierra’s father was a Latin American revolutionary. From Central America. At least Finn Carter looked sort of appropriate. MBE was an extreme white bread choice. I always maintain she would have made a far better Liza Colby on AMC than Jamie Luner, though.

[quote] Sierra’s father was a Latin American revolutionary.

And her mother was Lucinda who is very white bread. And MBE made me believe she had a long history with Lucinda, Lily, and Craig.

[quote]. I always maintain she would have made a far better Liza Colby on AMC than Jamie Luner, though.

I probably would have made a better Liza Colby than Luner. MBE would have been interesting and would have more believable as the person Adam considered an equal.

[quote]Olivia Birkelund? She was terrific on AMC, but she would've been too old to play Mindy. hir A sign that AMC was starting its decline. They started jettisoning some great supporting character that had always given Pine Vally a bit of its quirky small-town flavor. Arlene really could have been around for a while stirring up trouble. The show started to use fewer and fewer people, even as talk-to devices, so you basically saw whoever was the favorite of the moment for about 20 shows in a row.

I will shut-up about AMC now, back to P&G. I did not watch GL much, but did find the Marian story compelling. I am glad they did not go with a long-drawn Lucy imprisoned in the Light House route. Now if Brett/Marian had decided to keep a shirtless Alan-Michael chained up there... All kidding aside, Hearst would have made a more compelling acting partner for a lot of one on one scenes long-term captive storylines tend to produce.

It is interesting to watch that old early 70's clip of Alice and some of Steve and Rachel. Very old fashioned and slow, but something compelling. I know soaps needed to speed things up and would not want them to return to that style, but they probably went too far the other direction. They have lost a lot of the slow build that really delivered a satisfying finale when things finally hit the fan. Keep some longer scenes to get a bit more impact, not cut away to a different story every 4 minutes. Plus, they move on too quickly from the aftermath.

Watch The Doctors on Retro TV R397. You can see how soaps were written during that time period. I found that with the longer scenes and the playing of all the beats, more was accomplished in those shows in a half hour than almost all of the current hour shows in a week.

I was a Y&R and OLTL fan and would occasionally check out other CBS shows during commercials, etc-

Two actresses I could never take my eyes off were Kimberly Simms and Elizabeth Hubbard.

Kimberly would have been a KILLER Tina on OLTL. She should have replaced Karen Witter.

And I agree- Tesreau was atrocious as Tina. She made Tina BORING! One of the worst recasts on that show, or any soap for that matter.

Simms had far more charisma than Witter or Tesreau.

Krista Tesreau made Tina a wimp. Tina was a con artist at her core.

R396, yes, I’m aware that Lucinda (whose real name was actually Mary Ellen) was very white bread but still. When they originally cast Sierra with Finn Carter they did keep in mind that the character was partly a latina.

ATWT also fucked up when they cast Lien, who’s clearly an Amerasian. Ming-Na Wen? Totally wrong for it. And so was Lea Salonga. Someone like Lindsay Price would have been perfect. Not having her be mixed race blunted a lot of the power of that character. I’m surprised Marland didn’t insist they find an authentic Amerasian or Eurasian actress for the role.

R400- Not even a con artist- but a vamp who always was yearning for MONEY and RESPECT. Tina didn't even want respect, as much as she wanted money.

Witter and especially Tesreau had none of that charisma that lights up the screen.

Anyway back to P&G!!

MBE was great as Sierra. And she was cast early in Goutman's run, before he started to replace all the actors with ABC rejects, so I don't count her among those in-name-only recasts. She was similar to Finn Carter in enough ways that she made her Sierra very believable.

R403, no offense, but youre nuts. MBE brought NOTHING to the role. She had no real storylines, because she insisted on a schedule that constantly let her come and go. Scott Bryce/Finn Carter made the duo front burner. MBE was just background material.

R404 You are entitled to your opinion.

I was never a Finn Carter fan. I thought Liz, Martha and Scott blew her away every time she was on screen with them. They did have a chemistry, I'll give you that, but I just didn't care for her performances (or lack thereof).

And I loathed most of the recasts. What Goutman did to the role of Meg Snyder was heinous.

MBE was extremely lazy casting by CBS, she was brought on only because she’d been part of a supercouple on Days.

[quote] What Goutman did to the role of Meg Snyder was heinous.

I liked Marie Wilson, but she was all wrong for Meg Snyder. She would've been better cast as Ellie Snyder, as that character was never really defined when the character was originally on.

[quote] Now if Brett/Marian had decided to keep a shirtless Alan-Michael chained up there

They did, for about an episode and a half.

I found it believable that mbe could be of Central American descent assuming her father or some ancestor fled nazi Germany. Totally viable.

[quote] she would have kept Simms and given her more money

Her leaving had nothing to do with money- Simms was fine with the contract and both parties were happy, except for the length of the contract. Simms only wanted 18 month contract. P&G was insisting on 2 years.

They couldn't come to terms over the final six months of the contract.

R409, uhhhh, no, I don’t believe Sierra’s father had German lineage. I think he was named Diego Esteban. Stop grasping at straws.

Simms was being a diva. What has she done since GL?

[quote] Simms was being a diva. What has she done since GL?

YEARS afterwards, she would concede it was her agents who were pushing for a shorter contract. Her agents were claiming they were lining up exciting projects for her and getting things rolling. And it would be a mistake to be tied up in a long-term contract. Simms was thinking she could be bi-coastal and during the next year she was on GL, fly off to L.A. when she had time off to test the waters.

But P&G was insisting on two years - take it or leave it. So after talking to her agents, who swore they had big plans for her, she left it,

You do understand that you are arguing with three different posters who liked MBE as Sierra, right?

Sierra's dad's name was Jacobo.

I know a dozen blond Argentinians with names like rodolfo. Not a troll here. Just don’t think that one is among the many miscasts.

Clearly, we have a poster here who feels deeply, passionately, that Mary Beth Evans was NOT right for Sierra.

Have we all noted this opinion? Have we embraced it, close to our heart? I just want to be sure she was heard. If she wasn't heard, she'll need another 40 posts or so to make sure everyone knows and understands.

Ff r416. No opinion on mbe. He’s just annoying.

FF moi? I just wanted to help, of course.

RRRR415, the fictional country of Montega wasn’t situated in fucking South America (where Argentina is, in case you didn’t know), it was in Central America. Big difference. Very few citizens of European extraction down there.

You soap queens are a bit scary. Arguing over an actress that appeared 35-40 years ago on show that's been off the air for more than 10 is pathetic. Do you not realize that?

I guess R420 has never been on a comics message board.

I once heard somewhere that the three most ridiculed fanbases are: comic book readers, science fiction fans, and soap opera viewers.

Luckily, we're a bitchy bunch. We take our lumps and keep on cunting.

[quote] the fictional country of Montega wasn’t situated in fucking South America

Every reference I find online say it was.

"Mary Ellen ran off to Montega, South America where she wed Jacobo Esteban."

"Finally, Henry Coleman got to take center stage in The Man From Oakdale, a Walter Mitty-style adventure that took Henry and his then-girlfriend, Vienna, from the South American principality of Montega"

[quote] I once heard somewhere that the three most ridiculed fanbases are: comic book readers, science fiction fans, and soap opera viewers.

There are festivals and annual conventions for comic books & sci fi

But NOT for Soaps

Well, R423, they’re wrong. I guess because they didn’t do their homework or just assumed it was South America. Montega was meant to be a fictional version of Nicaragua, which went through a lot of shit in the 1980s.

The second citation was from the woman who wrote the novel as Henry. She was certainly provided that info from the show.

[quote] You're just not that smart or hardworking, honey.

You're just an asshole, honey.

Oops, wrong thread.

R392 Kale Browne to replace the dreadful Scott Holmes as Tom.

Kale Brown and JFP were sleeping together.

That's why he left AW and followed her to OLTL in 1998 to playSam Rappapport.

When she moved to GH, he moved to California with her. Got voice over work on GH. Was the voice of the hospital PA system for several years.

Alina Adams was the one that wrote the novels for ATWT. She was in PR of some sort for P&G. She wasn't a fan of those of us who frequented message boards. We had a few run ins with her back in the day.

I'm pretty sure detailed-oriented, soap columnist, Jon-Michael Reed (RIP), would not not get it wrong when reporting that Lucinda sent Craig to Central America the week that it happened!

[quote]Henry and his then-girlfriend, Vienna

🙄🙄🙄🙄

Let's just say it moved.

HBS had beef with almost everyone she worked with, including Colleen Zenk and Bob Woods, but she really fucking hated Kale, apparently.

R435, but at least in the case of Colleen, it worked out well for their scenes together, because their characters hated each other as well.

R432's post reminds me

NEWSFLASH: Lynda Hirsch is STILL alive!

"Travel Montega" (or Tanquir or San Cristobel) t-shirts would be fun items to sell at the hypothetical SoapCon.

I'm trying to decide if I would go to a SoapCon. I love soaps, but I hate most soap fans. Hmm...

[quote] That's why he left AW and followed her to OLTL in 1998 to playSam Rappapport.

Actually he DID NOT leave AW followed her to OLTL

To pare down the budget both Hudson brothers were dropped to recurring. David Forsythe refused to work without a contract and left, but Kale Browne accepted his non-contract status

Then a few weeks later AW decided to kill off the character - when JFP heard about it she offered Kale the Sam Rappaport role, it was non-contract at first. Then was expanded to contract part

[quote] she really fucking hated Kale, apparently.

He had a drinking problem and was protected by JFP, but once she left and could no longer protect Kale, ABC got rid of Kale Browne

They don't have soap conventions but they have done soap cruises, which I imagine must be anxiety-filled hellholes for all but the most narcissistic of actors (Kim Zimmer comes to mind). Not only around soap fans but STUCK on a floating island with them.

And before that GL had those yearly bowling events where some actors were afraid of being around fans without the 'protection' of a table or some sort of barrier, the way they'd had at the yearly fan club gatherings. Again the glory hogs probably loved the attention but the more normal actors had to be unnerved by the instant intimacy fans expect, since they feel like they 'know' the actor by virtue of seeing them as their character every day.

P&G fans aren’t that rabid though.

The most rabid fans are DAYS fans, then ABC fans, then Bell fans, then P&G.

Maybe not rabid but it's got to be weird having some rocks-for-brains fans calling you by your character's name or asking for an autograph in the restroom.

I'm guessing Bev McKinsey and Eileen Fulton said no to the bowling alley meet-and-greets.

The closest I got to one of these fan events was a Guiding Light vs Texas charity softball game in NJ when I was 12. I was a budding gayling then, and my most vivid memory was not being able to take my eyes off both John Wesley Shipp and Randy Hamilton and feeling these inner stirrings. Of course, I didn't really know what it all meant at the time. Oh and I remember Harley Kozak was there and I think Robert Newman as well.

[quote]P&G fans aren’t that rabid though.

[quote]The most rabid fans are DAYS fans, then ABC fans, then Bell fans, then P&G.

I love how some PG fans like to make themselves out to be the "classier" less crazed soap fans. A soap fan is a soap fan is a soap fan.

[quote] Maybe not rabid but it's got to be weird having some rocks-for-brains fans calling you by your character's name or asking for an autograph in the restroom.

Thom Bierdz told a funny story in one of his books about how he was at a soap con once (late 80s) and thought a (male) fan was sooooooo into him that they ended up back in his hotel room laying on the bed in their wet swimsuits from the jacuzzi they'd just shared.

Thom's boner couldn't be contained any longer, so he finally slipped his swimsuit off and made his move. The guy was apparently SHOCKED! Turned out he was just a rabid, rocks-for-brains soap fan. He then excused himself, saying he had to get back to his wife.

Oh I forgot they used have Soaps Alive where soap stars would do personal appearances in malls back in the 1980s

You could make a mint on the side, but once Soaps started to decline, so did Soaps Alive

I think the P&G soaps tended to attract damaged gay men who were looking for surrogate families and friends, as well as a sense of belonging and community, to replace their own family/friends/community who rejected them for "being different." I guess the characters on P&G shows were more relatable because they tended more to look like "real" people rather than the talking mannequins on the Bell shows.

R394, you nailed it re: Jill and Santa Light as the show became. She threw jobs to so many ex SB pals -- Christopher Norris, the guy who played Bunny, Sherilyn Wolter, Marj, Justin Deas, Marcy.

No. no. no, no, NO.

Give us GUIDING LIGHT. We want that show. Not her SB castaways.

What are you saying R451. NBC would cancel at 3 PM timeslot competitor show and GL would pick up all the actors from that cancelled show?

Image bringing over your pals from a recently cancelled show!

Well of course not, R424. When the main audience is mostly women and gay men, what else do you expect?

[quote] you nailed it re: Jill and Santa Light as the show became. She threw jobs to so many ex SB pals

and she did the same thing on One Life To Live - bringing so many former Another World actors to OLTL

But in terms of bringing SB stars to GL and AW stars to OLTL - SB & GL aired in the same timeslot, as did AW & OLTL

If viewers missed their favorites stars on a cancelled soap, they could now tune into the competitor of that cancelled soap.

JFP gets blamed for things that they all do. There is not a writer/producer in soaps or in any other entertainment genre who doesn't try to bring along people they have worked with before. People whose work they know and trust. You see the same thing outside of entertainment as well.

Here is the thing about JFP, she continued to work because she was network friendly (meaning most of the shows she went to had a mandate from the network or the production company to do XYZ), she raised demos and she got her soaps recognition and she knew how to up the stakes.

Was I a fan of the NYPD Blue/ER/Melrose Place version of Another World, not really. However, someone was because the demos went up and the show got Emmy love.

[quote] Maybe not rabid but it's got to be weird having some rocks-for-brains fans calling you by your character's name or asking for an autograph in the restroom

It's awkward when I see in online, too. There's a few really dumb fans that will call the actors by their character names.

Slee was not fond of Tesreau. "Oh dear," was her comment about Krista's acting ability. Tesreau was comedically gifted, but it's telling she was the only Mindy Vinnie was never engaged to in real life.

Marie Wilson would actually have been OK casting as Sierra.

[quote] Slee was not fond of Tesreau. "Oh dear," was her comment about Krista's acting ability.

She said the opposite at her fan club event saying she loved Krista Tesreau

Yes, we can argue about the smallest minutiae here.

But listen, I've sat at a table with straight male coworkers who have spent HOURS upon HOURS arguing about who hit what ball at the top of the 8th inning in some random game from 1962. Discussing an episode of one of these shows from 30-35 years ago is pretty similar.

As with sports or other discussions, you'll always have one looney tooney babooney who takes it too seriously or too far, but for the most part, those of us in the discussion recall and debate these points with pleasure.

R460 Slee would never lie

Let's keep the discussions on P&G soaps....there are at least two OLTL threads out there for anyone who wants to discuss Slee.

I think it’s time for combo threads of all classic soaps. Shows still producing current episodes are different but it’s natural that conversation topics of classic, defunct shows and their actors that worked on many different shows of the era will lead to inevitable overlap.

......

......

Marnie Schulenberg, who played Alison on ATWT, died yesterday.

Sad - way too young. I remember her doing a great job on a Cold Case episode, and in terms of ATWT, she did OK as Alison despite being handed some terrible storylines.

So sad. I remember Marnie did the Locjher Room very early on at the start of the pandemic. She'd just had a baby girl a few months prior to that. I thought she was beating this.

......

We've been M'd for some time, a new thread can be found here