Divas Datalounge Doesn't Like

Roseanne Barr is the first one I thought of.

Joan Jett seems to get really trolly insults and accusations, not sure if it is all from the same person. Faye Dunaway as well, though I love her.

And can't I love both Hepburn and Davis:)?

Janis Joplin had a thread like this a while back.

Dionne Warwick is discussed often but only to mock. Most people mention that Whitney and Aretha got the talent, while Dionne just kept truckin'.

[quote]Faye Dunaway as well, though I love her.

Yes, that's the Jessica Lange Troll. I thought that was the same person as Janbot because of copy-paste prose style, but blocking reveals otherwise.

Susan Sarandon was actually quite popular here prior to 2016.

Now she's public enemy number one.

[quote]Katherine Hepburn -- always compared unfavorably with Davis and Stanwyck.

And her name's hard to spll!

[quote]And her name's hard to spll!

That's not all that's hard to spEll, R6.

Angelina Jolie

Norma Shearer.

Does Zak still post here?

Norma Shearer was a g-damn cross eyed COW

Debra Messing

SJP doesn't count because no one in the real world likes her either.

Going by the Janet in Australia thread, Janet Jackson.

[Quote] Most people mention that Whitney and Aretha got the talent, while Dionne just kept truckin'.

Disagree.

That Dionne was talented or that Datalounge is nice to her?

Dionne's music is much more in line with DL tastes than Whitney's.

She gets no respect though. Just constant jokes and usually someone pretending to be her.

DL just isn't that into women for some reason.

DL is into plenty of women, just not the ones mentioned.

A lot of trolls seem to really dislike Oprah and Beyonce. Which I really don't understand stand. Neither women are controversial people, nor are they scandalized people.

I think gay white men just don't like them because they are globally famous, and insanely wealthy black women. And the wealth part will always piss white people off. They don't like black wealth or prosperity.

They hate that shit with a passion. Anyone remember black wallstreet from history? Look it up.

You're right, R19. Though some of Oprah's hate comes from the fact she's like Queen of Fraus and so self-important.

I don't go into Beyonce threads but she's one of those unavoidable names in pop culture - DL is always against those. We don't have many Adele appreciation threads, do we?

Aren't the Beyonce threads mostly posters from LSA? I've never been in one. Most pop culture names are popular here because the average age is... fifty maybe?

[quote]r16 Warwick gets no respect though. Just constant jokes and usually someone pretending to be her.

Once you open a psychic hotline, all bets are off.

And don't pay your taxes and move to Brazil, go on a reality show and call someone a 'hussy', constantly try to cast shade at a funeral and in every interview, claim every song as your own, steal from an AIDS charity, still smoke weed in your seventies, etc...

There is no singer I like more than Linda. I don't consider her a "diva," however.

Using diva as shorthand for any female performer.

God, Dionne did not want to be doing that commercial at R23.

Linda Lavin and Patti Lupone?

WHERE'S THE LOVE???

[quote]r25 There is no singer I like more than Linda. I don't consider her a "diva," however.

Agreed.

Rondstadt felt ballads were her strength and only alternated with "rockier" songs to make her record label happy. But she had an amazingly full voice that could do almost anything.

I think there are many Jessica Lange fans or admirers here, but the Jessica Lange Troll screams the loudest and ruins it for all us.

It's okay to be a Jessica Lange fan so long as you accept Meryl as our Lord and Saviour.

Sam Bailey doesn't get the respect she deserves.

That ends NOW, girls!

Sam who?

Linda not a diva? Dolly would say differently...

[Quote] still smoke weed in your seventies

FU, honky!

[quote] Linda not a diva? Dolly would say differently...

So would Robin Quivers

Lena Horne. Probably because hardly anyone here knows her. She was a bitchy diva leading a double life and should be a Datalounge icon!

DL doesn't tend to be very supportive of double lives...

And doesn't like closet cases. Applies to Hepburn too.

Lots of gays like Linda Rondstadt. I do.

Sure, and the DL doesn't like her. But Horne didn't put up any pretenses after her gay husband dropped dead. She said she had no boyfriends or husbands and was not interested in getting one.

Not on DL though, R41.

My chill pill is "I Love Lucy" but Lucille was a Republican and a bitch. On a Delta Airlines flight in 1st class (where else?), she threw a cup of coffee on the stewardess and shouted, "You call this hot?!" Can't believe Desi Junior impregnated an older woman when he was 15! We know who encouraged that! Who couldn't like Bonnie Franklin?

I think Ball was actually a conservative Democrat (yes, that long ago). She was a member of the CPUSA in the '30s. But by the '70s her conservatism was obvious in interviews and her work too.

[quote] My chill pill is "I Love Lucy" but Lucille was a Republican and a bitch. On a Delta Airlines flight in 1st class (where else?), she threw a cup of coffee on the stewardess and shouted, "You call this hot?!" Can't believe Desi Junior impregnated an older woman when he was 15! We know who encouraged that!

This is what I mean. When most people think Lucy they think of things like Vitameatavegimin. When Datalounge thinks of Lucy they think of her making Joan Crawford cry.

But I'll always love Lucy.

R45, she had problems because that was her grandfather who was a registered member of the CPUSA. She and Desi were GOP.

Donna Summer.

Deidre Hall

I think most people here like Whitney Houston's music and Dionne Warwick's music enormously. But they don't admire the actual women, just as many Dataloungers like Barbra Streisand's music (at least when she was on top of her game) but, except for her diehard apologists (like charlie), they don't like her as a person.

Being a diva can really warp who you are as a person. Whitney was a sweaty coke addict, Dionne is cranky, and Streisand is a weirdo control freak. But I love (most of) their music nonetheless.

As for Beyoncé: she has a very nice voice, and she was so beautiful when she was young. She STILL is beautiful. I don't see many Dataloungers post any dislike of her other than of her acting (she was admittedly underwhelming--if competent--in 'Dreamgirls"). But to her rabid stans, unless you rave on and on about her and refer to her as "Queen Bey" and gush about how unstoppable she is, you are somehow dissing her, so they are hardly objective on this matter.

Deidre Hall is another one of those double lifers, R49.

If Donna Summer was alive today she'd be posting on Lipstick Alley and coming over to Datalounge despite finding the whole site sinful.

[quote] Bette Midler -- every time she comes up nobody has anything nice to say

If it walks like a cunt, talks like a cunt and quacks like a cunt....it's a CUNT!

[quote] XXXXX doesn't get the respect she deserves.

That's a classic stan way of thinking. If you do not fawn and grovel over a stan's favorite diva, you are somehow not respecting her as she deserves. That's just stupid.

R45/R46, since I read a lot about Lucy and it came to mind, J. Edgar Hoover had the hots for Desi and had him arrested on a trumped up charge. Desi was strip-searched, which Hoover secretly had filmed; he and Clyde retained the film. Hoover was one twisted pervert. I hope to read the 2015 book about Hoover's secret war on gays by Douglas M. Charles,

When did anyone say that, R54?

I love The Dionne Warwick Troll. Come on to this thread, hussy.

Kathie Lee Gifford

R57, LOL, dare I ask about that? Wow, there are too many freaking psychos on here and in this world! I learned someone I knew in 1998 in still stalking me - - what a loser!

Lucy gets a bad rap. Very few women ran their own companies at the time she did. And she didn't want to put a bunch of people out of work, so she assumed the role. No one took women seriously and many were even offended at the idea of having one be their boss. She wasn't in an enviable situation, but she did the best she could.

Also, for the knocks against her looks, she aged naturally and quite nicely in Hollywood. It was only during the last few years of her life that she overdid it with her appearance. But she was a gorgeous woman up until then.

[quote]But by the '70s her conservatism was obvious in interviews and her work too.

You mean like when she defended gay people in interviews and said she was pro gay rights? Hardly conservative and almost non existent for any entertainer to be that bold at that time, especially one of the vets. Her choice of entertainment being conservative perhaps, but even then she loved shows like Three's Company. She didn't like message shows that hit you over the head with things instead of entertain you. She thought comedy should be entertaining, but she was no prude by any means.

The Bonnie Franklin obsession/derision is very weird here. Two years ago back to back threads were completely filled with Bonnie Franklin discussion.

R60, I give credit where it's due. Lucy did an unbelievable job running Desilu; I don't know how she did it. Don't have any problem with her gay rights stance. However, her smoking & drinking were evident during her show's run. She looked like hell by the time The Lucy Show began. When she was 65, she looked 80. Everyone, if you want to preserve your skin, please do not smoke anything and stay out of the sun!

So, after 62 replies without being named, it would appear that there is no hatred, or even dislike, for ME.

Obviously, that means I really am better than everybody else, especially all those immoral, non-Catholic heatons, I mean heathens.

R61 Bonnie Franklin is the least of DL's obsessions.

R63 Oh, we hate you too, you overbearing cunt.

[quote]Also, for the knocks against her looks, she aged naturally and quite nicely in Hollywood. It was only during the last few years of her life that she overdid it with her appearance.

Oh [italic]honey.[/italic]

If by "the last few years of her life" you mean the last TWENTY-SEVEN...

[quote] The Bonnie Franklin obsession/derision is very weird here. Two years ago back to back threads were completely filled with Bonnie Franklin discussion.

Not if you grew up with her in the Seventies on "One Day at a Time." She was a talentless, unattractive midget with a hideous mushroom haircut who was being touted on one of the most popular shows on television as a feminist icon. And they would showcase her supposed "acting" talent! It was hard to grow up then as a white gay middle-class man and not be fascinated with her for the rest of your life.

R66, LOL, thanks, I'll get battered, but fair-skinned white people probably shouldn't smoke, drink and be in the sun

I completely agree, r68. No one of any race should smoke or drink excessively like Lucy did--it is so bad for your skin as well as your health. And fair white-skinned people were not meant to be in sunny climates--they were meant to be in snowy, rainy climes.

R69, thanks, I generally agree. Isn't it interesting that you're 69? I love that activity. :-)

-68

[quote] The Bonnie Franklin obsession/derision is very weird here. Two years ago back to back threads were completely filled with Bonnie Franklin discussion.

The strange thing is how totally obscure she is in the real world. Yet here she can generate a hundred replies.

Lucy looked fine in her later years. The red hair was her trademark. She wasn't going to change that.

The same people trashing her appearance probably thinks Jane Fonda's shiny, hollowed out like a tree trunk face is amazing.

It's called acting your age.

Kirstie Alley

R72, Lucy has tapes and strings under her wig in that photo to lift her face. Notice how her eyebrows are so high and arched? Her makeup is also applied very thickly. It's called Hollywood.

Without makeup and tape.

....

I don't think Ball looks bad at r75. But then I don't have her young self stuck in my head.

[Quote] The Bonnie Franklin obsession/derision is very weird here.

Agreed. Talk about me, you homos. (But not if you're a server.)

One Day at a Time was just awful and Bonnie Franklin was a big part of it. She’s also had a bunch of funny little rolls—like shrieking “man in the hall” in That camp fest “A Summer Place”.

As for Lucy, she was basically a caretaker at Devils. Desi built it and it coasted on rental fees for most of her time. She had to hire someone to develop shows and clearly went into areas where she’d have to defer to him like hour long dramas. Her shows Were repetitive and increasingly phoned in, while her success with I Love Lucy had a lot to do with the ensemble. Like most early tv people she was a B movie person with no place to go in a declining movie world. Lucy has been overrated for ages.

Devils should be Desilu

I thought she tapped away any rolls.

Belinda Carlisle

r19 Oprah is not globally famous. She's an American celebrity.

[Quote] Oprah is not globally famous. She's an American celebrity.

Do you work in a Jeweller's?

Actually I think Belinda Carlisle is probably more liked her than in the real world.

r84 Oprah doesn't mean diddly-squat outside the US. People may know of her as an American chat show host, but she has no cultural currency in other countries. In non-English speaking countries, she is not really known at all.

I enjoy Bette Midler and Susan Sarandon so fuck off.

I remember back in 2015 when everyone used to say 'WEHT Susan Sarandon? Someone should give her a movie!"

Now, about half of Dataloungers are ready to chip in for a hitman all because she didn't like St Hillary.

People in France, Poland, Korea, wherever know who Oprah is but they never watched her show nor does she have any cultural reach there.

Lauren Bacall seems pretty much universally hated here. I love her on screen but could see her as toxic IRL. It doesn't much bother me - politically she was on the side of the angels and she usually gave a good interview. Seems like she did all right by her kids. I wasn't eating breakfast with her every day so with the other bases covered how she was in person seems less important.

Datalounge is a site for pointless bitchery. Thus, outside of politicians, the people who have multiple threads across the years aren't truly loathed. It's a love-to-hate situation.

Sure, R91, but a thread on Judy brings out lots of people to saying they really loved her and she was so great and talented.

A thread on Bette Midler and it's nothing but how she's such a cunt, etc.

There are trends.

Ellen.

Yes, we see she's a sadistic, dykey cunt. But fraus love her.

Well, I think Lauren Bacall is viewed differently to Midler. Midler's marriage equality comments have a different resonance than Bacall's bad behavior. The latter is used here for entertainment purposes.

Tori Amos. She is my touchstone and goddess. You cunts hate her.

Put down the nutloaf and take a bath, R96.

The thing is normally any female performer who is at least a little bit bitchy can be guaranteed some gay fans.

This is about the women who can't even manage that for whatever reasons.

R90, I've never heard one good word about Bacall. R94, my GOP sister (she's a frau) thinks she's gay-friendly because she watches Ellen's show.

R92, please advise about Bette? I had no idea she had a bad rep. Sorry, I don't do the gossip thing. R87, SJP has spent her life trying to convince people she's attractive, but "SITC" was a good program.

[quote][R92], please advise about Bette? I had no idea she had a bad rep.

What's behind it here is that she's called a gay icon but most of her audience is fraus not gay men. A lot of us don't like her because of her comments on gay marriage, which left us shellshocked.

There are other threads discussing her bad behaviour over the years.

Bette Midler's performance in Gypsy is hated here, which I've never understood. She was the closest thing to Merman's iconic portrayal that we're going to get.

A lot of the Bette hate stems from her Larry King comments. But all throughout her career she's gone through periods of embracing her past and then distancing herself from it (especially during the late 80's early 90's when she was trying to make meaningful, family friendly entertainment. ) Like many gay friendly entertainers of that era, she lost A LOT of people to AIDS, and I think that's haunted her. Plus other tragedies and issues in her life. I've heard she's very guarded and extremely moody, but if she knows you well, she has a monumental heart of gold.

r96, Tori Amos is life!

r96, Tori Amos is life!

"Notice how her (Lucy's) eyebrows are so high and arched?"

That's because she had no eyebrows. They were drawn on, as high and arched as she desired.

"Bette Midler's performance in Gypsy is hated here, which I've never understood"

What about Bette in the remake of Stella Dallas, hate there too?

R104, dear, as Patti LaBelle would say, Momma was looking surprised! She had on the tapes & strings under that wig.

R100/R101, I just watched Bette on Larry King for the 1st time and I'm not shocked or offended at all. My 1st doctor in my new city was a hot, gay man. He warned me against the local bath house. He said that place kept him perpetually busy. He already knew I'm not, but he literally said don't be a semen receptacle. Fortunately, I've never had an STI. Most men are tramps or their eyes are; it's Mother Nature. I just tell the truth.

"She had on the tapes & strings under that wig."

Yeah, true. But they didn't produce those eyebrows - Max Factor did

Celine? I don’t think she’s discussed much here except for some casket dancing snark when her husband died.

Joan Rivers.

Diane

Mariah?

Whether or not she considered that hideous bright orange shade her "trademark" or not, Lucy was absolutely not obligated to dye her hair that color as she got older. It made her lookabsolutely ridiculous.

I remember seeing her once in her later years for the Hasty Pudding Award Parade in Cambridge in 1988, and she looked like she was pathetically wearing a Bozo the Clown wig.

R112, that may have been what it was because she did wear a wig

While I don't believe that she is actually disliked, I would like to see more love for Robyn on here. So many Janet threads but not many on Robyn.

GOOP

[quote] Belinda Carlisle

Bitchlinda

I have yet to see anything positive about Yoko Ono.

J.Ho

R32 Of course I accept Meryl as our Lord and Savior.

The proper order of things:

God, our Creator (Lange)

Lord and Savior (Streep)

The Holy Spirit (Usually Close but now Theron for me)

See?

If you fast forward to 4 minutes, you will clearly see our Lord and Savior remind us of God’s omnipotence and omniscience.

R116, Hi Jane!

Streisand is a fucking cunt. x

Audrey Hepburn

Is every woman in show business a diva these days? Some of the names mentioned in this thread aren't even divettes, let alone divas. Belinda Carlisle? Tori Amos??? Jennifer Lopez?? Cunticia Heaton??!??!

R123

See R26

Tori Amos is really annoying. Beyoncé has a good voice, but like most contemporary pop singers she has no melody and over processed music.

Warwick was a great singer, esp in her early career. Her mix of conservatory And gospel trading and the high gloss Tin Pan Alley talents of Bacharach and David produced really exc eptional music. Warwick the person—-greedy and bitchy, worse with age.

Early Dionne had a nice tone and phrasing. Out of every who sang Bacharach no one was as good as her. Her heavy smoking meant her voice was gone by the end of the eighties but Datalounge ignores her early career and just focuses on her ghetto behaviour. Someone did start a thread to ask why:

There’s plenty of love for early Dionne. Her haughty selfish ways are no more ghetto than Streisand,s.

Helen Lawson. Datalounge has a love/hate relationship with that diva.

Yeah right, R127. Streisand would never have appeared on Celebrity Apprentice, done Physic Hotline commercials, ran out on her debts, steal money from an AIDS charity, berate someone who turned up late to her concert, and all the other things Dionne has done.

Dionne deserves most of the mockery she succeeds.

[quote] Bette Midler's performance in Gypsy is hated here, which I've never understood. She was the closest thing to Merman's iconic portrayal that we're going to get.

In theory she should've been great in that role. Better than Streisand who isn't bawdy, desperate, tacky, overbearing like Midler is and the role requires.

But it just doesn't work.

She keeps avoiding all the dramatic moments and tries to make her too likeable. She says all her dialogue on that oddly mockable way of saying her lines in rapid prose (best mocked in that parody of her in MISERY!)

She's even like that on the soundtrack. Like when she sings 'amigos' in Together Wherever We Go and has to make it a chucky joke.

Midler was also at peak frau at that time. Would she have been better fifteen years earlier or later? I don't know. But she clearly didn't really want to play the role properly when she did kept falling back on her usual mugging.

R117, see, that was before my time and I've never understood the hate against Yoko Ono. I don't consider her responsible for the breakup of The Beatles at all. It's obvious from their music their time was over. I have an old soul, so that' the stuff I like - - 1960s and 1970s rock, even though a lot of it was made before I was born.

Dionne Warwick's recordings from the 60s are some of the finest pop music ever. I think she, along with her contemporary, Diana Ross, doesn't get enough respect because of a curious sort of music snobbery among many critics who only value Black singers who sing jazz or gutbucket soul. Warwick was as much of an artisan with a lyric as Aretha Franklin or Barbra Streisand or Dusty Springfield or Billie Holiday.

Warwick seems to be more respected in the UK. Ditto Diana Ross, whose recently announced UK tour dates have sold like hot cakes.

I think Dionne might be more well regarded if she'd played her cards better during her comeback era with Arista. She trash talked "Heartbreaker" soon after its release, nixing the chance of a Bee Gees produced follow up. I've also noticed that she tended to showboat more live in concert than on record. Bacharach was quite prescriptive with his singers in the studio (Timi Yuro told him to go fuck himself and walked out of a session when he banged out the rhythm to a song on a table. Yuro lost out on a hit... "What the World Needs Now Is Love"). I suspect if the showbating was more a part of her studio output, she'd have at least a Patti Labelle level cred with the younger, especially younger black, crowd.

R132/R133, now that I think about it, Dionne had excellent material, but her voice isn't that great, IMHO. I do like her performances. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a smoker.

Then you don't appreciate the difficulty of her classic material if you think he voice was ok or worse.

Dionne recorded a lot of schlock in the 80s during her Arista years. She should've done what Aretha did and recorded more uptempo songs with a more contemporary sound. Aretha had some huge hits in the 80s because she stayed current. Dionne was singing a bunch of "Lite FM" stuff.

Dionne didn't really have much success during the disco era. She mostly avoided recording disco. Her career didn't really improve until the early '80s. She did record Heartbreaker, which the Bee Gees regretted giving to her and not recording themselves. Streisand did Guilty a couple of years earlier and then Guilty Pleasures twenty-five years later. As someone, mentioned mentioned Dionne has always trashed that song publicly (which she's done about most of her bigger hits) so no chance of the Bee Gees wanting to reunite with her.

I can't believe Dionne is still touring! Has anyone heard her lately.

In her search to find wealth and fame

I hear Dionne Warwick(e) has gone and changed her name!

Mayor Pete

I love Julia Roberts. And most people my age do. I'm 43. Datalounge hates her. I don't care to hear about it.

Also, Dionne Warwick was a fantastic, nuanced and very sophisticated singer. Long before my time. But she sounded good until her late forties. She's no Celine Dion or Streisand or Gladys Knight in personality or vocal power and no Diana Ross in terms of glamor. She didn't take care of her voice or her reputation. When when your voice is long gone and you lose all sense of your former excellence - try NOT to destroy your legacy. She failed at that. Lots of old singers can't let go. Aretha was like that too, but that old lion could still roar on occasion. She was an occasion.

[quote]I love Julia Roberts. And most people my age do. I'm 43.

I'm 41 and people I know don't like her much.

[quote]I suspect if the showbating was more a part of her studio output, she'd have at least a Patti Labelle level cred with the younger, especially younger black, crowd.

It's a shame that our culture has degenerated to such an extent that the only way for a skilled singer like Warwick to gain credibility would be to scream and yell even if that is not her instinctive style of singing. Warwick had a unique sound and a distinctive, instantly recognizable voice that proved to be the best at interpreting the compositions of Bacharach and David (with perhaps Springfield a distant second).

It's a pity she ruined her voice by smoking and that she burned her bridges by trash talking the people she collaborated with in the past. She wasn't revered as much as Franklin was nor was she as big a superstar as Streisand or Ross were, so she really couldn't afford to make such rash career choices.

I was surprised how listenable Dionne is in this concert. She makes the material work for her current voice. Her musicality is still there (alongside a lit cigarette waiting for her, I'm sure.)

Dionne will be 80 years old next month. And the bitch is still smokin'!

R145 I commented elsewhere Phyllis Diller was either an alcoholic or heavy drinker and lived to 95. Somebody stated, "She had to cut way back when she was 80." How she made it I don't know. Maybe there's a gene for the liver and kidneys and hers was bulletproof.

What about the Country divas?

I think Dolly and Loretta are well liked, while Reba is loathed. Did this place melt down when Tammy Wynette died?

R147, Dolly is the deal! She is kind-hearted and genuine. I don't know why, but my skin crawls about Reba. I can't bear to listen to C&W music because it's like taking a downer, but I'm still ticked off about Tammy Wynette and her children and wish there was something I could do for justice. That woman suffered needlessly.

Yeah, R146, but Phyllis Diller was not a SINGER.

R149, sorry, make a cross-connection with smoking & drinking. They're about the same in my mind. I've never done either.

R147, have to admit I'm embarrassed to laugh when I discovered here the Reba/hemorrhoids/hairbrush-up-her-butt story. If that's true I'm going to laugh until I cry. How the heck could somebody do something so stupid? Haven't they heard of latex gloves? I've some in my bathroom for personal uses. Ouch, PPEW, Bang! LOL

I've never heard a kind word about the late lesbian comedian, Kaye Ballad.

R151 never heard anything about her other than she might be lez, same as Martha Raye. That info was easier to get than info on gay men of Hollywood, but I don't follow that anymore.

R152, are you fucking kidding? Or 15 years old?

R153, no, I don't accept gossip. I do research through NARA, so I'm not easily persuaded. About Travolta I believe because he & his wife had a home where I had a direct informant.

What is NARA?

Mayor Pete

R155, National Archives & Records Administration II in College Park, Maryland where all official records of our federal government are stored. You have to know that many people will sell their own grandmothers for booze, drugs or any other various valuables. I used to be called naive, now a friend calls me the most suspicious person he knows and it's warranted.

Well, R154, Kaye Ballard was a lesbian her entire life, maybe even a gold star lesbian. That's even though talk show host Mike Douglas grilled her on why she'd never married. He did the same thing with Van Johnson. Both were homos, darling, no need for exhaustive research.

R158, I knew about Van Johnson, who didn't? And Mike Douglas was an asshole, pardon my language

How is Kaye Ballard a diva?

R160, ALL female entertainers at the DL are "divas."

R159, this was a response to the pure one, R154, who claims to be a researcher of some unknown sort.

She headlined at the Blue Angel.

[quote]She wasn't revered as much as Franklin was nor was she as big a superstar as Streisand or Ross were

Completely not true. Dionne was a huge star up until the late 80's. She played all over the world to sold out audiences. Dietrich personally mentored her when she first came to Paris to perform. She was the first black solo female to hit it big in the modern pop era, and one of the most recognizable black stars of that era to her frequent exposure on television. . She even made an attempt to branch out into motion pictures several years before Diana.

Jennifer Lopez. She’s so despised no one is even remembers to mention her on this thread. Who are her fans that’s what I don’t get? Like who are her supporters besides her manager and her makeup artist?

R164, Wendy Williams is constantly talking about how J LO is an icon, mentioning her in the same breath as Mariah Carey. You don't have to be a Mariah Carey fan to realize how fucking ridiculous that is.

I think Bette Midler is talented but she is a fucking hypocrite. She made her success of off gays--especially gays in bathhouses. And then when Larry King asks her if she supports gay marriage, she couldn't say yes. She was flip-flopping as she discussed it.

"Completely not true. Dionne was a huge star up until the late 80's"

Not THAT huge, oh revisionist one.

Yes, THAT huge, revisionist one.

She toured Europe and the far East many times. Especially in the 80's. Several of those shows can be found on YouTube. That's What Friends Are For was a huge international hit.

I'd wager to say she was a bigger global star than Aretha Franklin during that time.

Dionne's 60s material is absolutely brilliant. It seems to get more and respect with each year. A few years ago, there were some beautiful reissues of her albums in Japan and they were beautifully done. Her Soulful album is really underrated.

It seems that Grace Kelly is not very popular here although I don't know that she is hated. Perhaps seen as a bit one-note and not very interesting? I thought she was beautiful but I confess I don't know much about her or her work.

R161, respectfully, the careers of Van Johnson and Kaye Ballard were before my time, but a relative said I demonstrated an intense interest in history at age 5. Van Johnson was married to Eve Abbott on 25 Jan 1947, separated in 1961 and divorced in 1968. Their daughter Schuyler was born in 1948. Their were "rumors" of his homosexuality, but I do know he was gay, bi or what have you.

-154/-159

R165 yeah but Wendy praises her and then hates on her. She’s trolled her a lot also like when she kept saying her relationship with Arod was fake haha which is why she hasn’t been on the show in a while. I think she only praises her because her mom is or was a big fan of the show and also because she’s probably the biggest star who came a number of times to the show...so she had to keep praising her for her to come back.

R165 yeah but Wendy praises her and then hates on her. She’s trolled her a lot also like when she kept saying her relationship with Arod was fake haha which is why she hasn’t been on the show in a while. I think she only praises her because her mom is or was a big fan of the show and also because she’s probably the biggest star who came a number of times to the show...so she had to keep praising her for her to come back.

[quote]Midler's marriage equality comments have a different resonance than Bacall's bad behavior. The latter is used here for entertainment purposes.

That's not bad behavior, that's ...

Dionne's 60s stuff should be as revered as The Supremes. I'd say the reason it isn't is because the woman herself turned into a nightmare of epic proportions. Just look at how she acted on The Apprentice: Celebrity edition.

R166, I saw that footage for the first time the other day. As a gay man posted on YouTube, I'm also not offended at all. As my parents often said, "Nobody owes you a career."

Debby Boone.

R171, nobody gives a bloody fuck. Seems you should collect yourself and go home. Permanently.

R!73, her mom Has been on the show and so has she, good point. I was kind of shocked by that, to be honest. Maybe she agreed to be on the show so that Wendy would (temporarily) stop talking about her.

R177, now that bitch and her parents are crazy! I read about Rock Hudson's death. Debby Boone's mother was literally by his death bed with Bible in hand, shouting verses trying to "save his soul from Hell". I can't believe her father is still alive an was permitted to record Tutti Frutti. As Little Richard said of his royalties, "Who heard of cutting a penny in half?"

Dionne Warwick was always in the media and on tv when I was a kid in the 80s, she was a very big star at that time. Everyone of my generation watched Solid Gold, we saw Dionne host that show every week and she had a number of hit songs throughout the decade. Her 60s music was before my time, but I learned to really appreciate it as an adult. Her Bacharach/David work was sublime. The Psychic Friends stuff did a lot to tarnish her reputation.

The more I read this thread, the more I hate Dionne Warwick.

Dionne's career declined due to a string of bad press and career moves. First of course, that informercial. She then had a well publicized feud with Cathy Hughes of BET, publicly bitched out the Soul Train awards for giving one to George Michael, saying it was racist to black artists (I think she even boycotted the show for a while) as well as aligned herself with C. Delores Tucker in the move to get gangsta rap banned from the radio. In the middle of this was the infamous ABC Day One expose on her AIDS charity which claimed overhead was gobbling up to 90% of the profits. On top of all of this, she left Arista in 1995.

Does get unsettling, just like a Brit who claimed to be a pilot but is not and had a failed business called The Garden Lounge.

But it's still surprising to read that she filed for bankruptcy because she was reportedly making a bundle off of those psychic commercials, as damaging as they were to her recording career.

Behold the Dionne Warwick International Fan Club Store!

Someone certainly is obsessed with his or her Dionne Warwick. Heartbreaker.....

[quote]The strange thing is how totally obscure she is in the real world. Yet here she can generate a hundred replies.

Isn't it amazing?

R188, LOL, a friend of mine calls Joyce a dingbat. Five former husbands including the exes of Liz Montgomery and JoAnne Worley. Didn't she get around? Maybe blondes do have more fun. My hot blond fuck buddy was the best.

Sarah Vaughan smoked and drank every night of her life and performed most of them too. But I'm not sure what the point of this is. She sounded amazing. Just lucky with the gift of life, from singing every night. Crack ruins your lungs and throat and so does weed. Crack, weed and cigarettes together will destroy your vocal cords and inhibit sound projection. Doesn't matter if your lungs are still in relative good health. But they seldom are. I think Sarah did them all. She didn't live forever but she sang beautifully because the gods gave her the most beautiful voice and she knew how to use it, even when she was drunk.

Celine Dion ate a burger and sounds 35 again. The Courage Tour. She sounds fucking amazing. The resonance never left but her high notes and runs are back again. Celine always took care of her voice. She's liked but not loved on DL too. Celine is sincere. The worst taste prevails here. Sarah Vaughan is probably the greatest pop vocalist who ever lived, She put her guts on the line and was in love with her own voice. She got rich but never a superstar. When you captivate like this, it's better in small venues. Barbara who?

DL is literally the only place I have ever come across the name of this Joyce Bulifant woman, and nowhere else. I've never looked at any of the threads and know nothing about her, except that she was some kind of television personality a very, very long time ago.

R190, thanks for the link. I'm a bit familiar with SV. I was shocked to learn one of the nicest, coolest guys I've known is a Celine Dion fan. He just doesn't seem the type. LOL.

R181, she was a regular on the gameshow circuit. She's on Password Plus right now on Buzzr from about 1979. I think she was also the voice for the mermaid for Chicken of the Sea tuna before my time. As state above, a friend calls her a dingbat because on MatchGame she almost always supplies an obscure, losing answer.

Before you criticize R190 - mature Sarah can sing Send in The Clowns clean too. For TV. Sarah Vaughan at 65. Her voice goes from baritone to mezzo-soprano to almost coloratura. All that chosen class. The public just didn't get her excellence. And DL says nothing about her. Sarah Vaughan was born 20 years too early. Because she is the greatest vocal diva of them all - along with the great Whitney Houston.

R192. Long story shortened. I think Celine is corny. But I am a musician and her voice is quite exceptional. Very. I don't approve of her songs, ha. My boyfriend loves her. So I've come to understand her better. I've seen her on the Plains of Abraham with a quarter million people. Here is the thread to make you believe or not in Dion. Celine has probably the most beautiful voice given to any singer in the last 30 years. Her tone combined with unbelievable technical prowess make her the best. Whitney came first and Mariah's voice was something real, but something other than beautiful. Celine will tell you that she is not as great as Whitney and she fashioned herself after Barbra. But she is a crazy beautiful singer and your nice cool friend cannot be wrong. Get past the song and listen to her voice. Or just buy her French albums - where she sings at her most beautiful. The Celinessance is real.

R194, thanks, I appreciate Celine and her talent. I remember watching Dolly Parton explain her appreciation that Houston covered her classic, which resulted in overwhelming riches. Never appealed to me. Houston and Carey are not in Dion's category. If you haven't seen Dolly perform "Stairway to Heaven" I recommend it.

[quote]r170 It seems that Grace Kelly is not very popular here although I don't know that she is hated. Perhaps seen as a bit one-note and not very interesting? I thought she was beautiful but I confess I don't know much about her or her work.

The problem with Grace Kelly is her movies aren't that interesting, aside from the 3 she made with Hitchcock. And even those are a mixed bag: DIAL M FOR MURDER is a bore, TO CATCH A THIEF is escapism - only REAR WINDOW is great.

She won an Oscar for toning down her glamour in THE COUNTRY GIRL, but does anyone want to watch that movie today? No.

How about Billie Holliday?

Ella Fitzgerald?

Billie and Ella were goddesses of music, but I'm sure some bitch will repeat that observation about Ella singing as though she were looking for gum in her purse.

R198, as a teen I was called a weirdo for a lot of a reasons. One of them was for listening to Ella Fitzgerald. :-)

Whether we like it or not R195 - Celine, Whitney and Mariah will forever be called The Trinity. They truly ruled the musical world and changed the way that all girls singers sing. The 1990s belonged to them and forever more really. Between the three of them they sold more albums in two decades than all other women before them. There are good female singers today and always, but Whitney and Celine will never be matched. Never. Once in a lifetime voices. Mariah was more of a freak trick pony. Her actual voice is not beautiful but she made some hell of a beautiful noises.

Dolly has the prettiest modal voice of just about any woman who ever sang. Modal means her natural voice without much push or added flair. So her singing voice is almost the same as her speaking voice. A beautiful clear lilting soprano. Unusual in her ease and flexibility and the unique prettiness of it all. She has a nice small tear in her belting voice that she learned to use a lot more AFTER Whitney made her song something else. Kenny Rogers and Emmylou Harris also sing in their modal voice. Talking to speaking is barely a breath different. Funny that Dolly likes them both so much. Dolly's voice has very beautiful qualities - a clear stream lyric soprano..very agile and light but pure when she was young. She doesn't know how good a singer she is. It's too bad she talk sings and gets so corny. Her voice was so beautiful.

We can disagree about Houston. To me she was the best voice in pop music in my growing up time. The depth warmth and power of her voice were so beautiful. The luscious low tones and beautiful head voice - soulful trills and gorgeous phrases. Like church bells and parades.

Celine is the woman that nobody wants to acknowledge. Because of her chest thumping and phonetics? She's so weirdly sincere that she makes people uncomfortable. But her voice is technically better than Streisand and Houston. So we can agree. Her attention to her voice and showmanship were the best in the game. She is vocally perfect in how she executes so much of her singing, but she is not a perfect singer. She's emotional. Makes for a unique experience. Those laser quick runs and her gorgeous piercing resonance like the most beautiful soprano in a church choir. But Celine also has pure vocal power to sustain notes for a very long time. Celine is all soprano so it's a different sound from the mezzo tones of Aretha, Whitney, Babra and whatever Mariah calls herself. What makes Celine a remarkable pop soprano is the unusual belting power and beauty of her voice and the overtones she continually produces whether recording or singing live. Overtone sounds are sometimes achieved by chanting monks or some mountain people wailing. That double tone flute like quality of Celine's voice - where two vocal sounds are produced simultaneously. She doesn't try to do it - it happens. It's not a recorded illusion. It's part of her. Part of that is the thick Quebecois styling of her singing, but her voice is not a fluke. She is most exceptional. Check out the performances posted at the link at R194. A spectacular voice. She is so much better in French.

Of course Ella Fitzgerald will never be bettered. Ever. Hers is the most perfect human voice ever to sing or be recorded. She had an instrument that never needed tuning or orchestration. Only to be played. The sound of her voice is bliss. She wasn't able to distract from her own perfection. There will NEVER be another Ella Fitzgerald. She's too fucking amazing to comprehend.

Billie Holiday taught generations of singers and musicians how to phrase lyrics and bend notes. To use their rasp and head voice to add shades of feeling to a lyric...to hang just b e h i n d the beat. She was remarkable. But not one of the great voices. Sinatra would be the first to tell you that he owed everything to Billie. He sang very much like her though you won't notice at first.

Celine is one of the great voices. Go see her. Courage Tour. Her voice is still a thrill in person.

One of her very best songs, precisely because it isn't all belted. Those beautiful overtones chime in and out and she trills all over it. Not lip synched. Something very sensuous about it all.

No doubt Celine's voice is beautiful, but her material has always been MOR schlock. It's a shame she was never more adventurous in her choices when she was in her prime, it would've been very interesting to hear her sing actual decent songs.

A tired and goofy looking Celine proves with one casual line why her voice is singular and superior always. It's like another entity enters. Yes, it's too bad she was programmed to make hits and was sold out to Vegas residency before she was 35 years old. She sold more records and made more money than any singer or group for the whole decade of 2000 to 2010. For sure she lost a lot in who she could have been. But the beauty of her voice is undeniable. Celine has the two biggest selling albums of all time in the French language. Just listen to those R202. The sounds are gorgeous and the songs are better too.

A younger Sarah Vaughn aged about 40 here.

Ella Fitzgerald, live and at her most dazzling, IMO - Incredible jazz scat for five minutes straight

Finally, we have Billie Holiday, live from 1946 - before the voice went.

R200, thanks, you know your stuff! I remember "Vision of Love" and I was floored! Then Mariah took a turn, but not like Whitney's. Gifts of voices like theirs must be protected. I'm not judging, just stating what occurred. We're discussing pop, c & w, jazz and blues. I had a junior-level university course called "History of Rock & Roll". The professor was a Boomer who drove a VW Beetle. Our final paper was about Bob Dylan and gave me gas - - I don't mean unleaded. LOL. I'm trying to appreciate classical. A treasured memory is being invited to the symphony by a tall, handsome friend in pre-med. Respected and cared him so much, couldn't ask for more than one date. Nearly everyone I've known wealthy or "high class" appreciates classical, but I can't get into it except to know and appreciate its history. Thanks for your kind comments about Dolly. I think she's true blue, but I don't own her recordings. Two terms of French in secondary school and at university will help with listening to Celine in her native language. Thanks for the links. Peace. :-)

-192/-199

LOVE Sarah, but not her doing Send in the Clouds.

Here she is high as a kite doing the slow version of Over the Rainbow. Brilliant.

R207, Mariah did too much, too soon. She was releasing an album every year without properly taking care of her vocal cords. And she is a perfectionist. She allegedly did something like thousands (literally, thousands) of takes for the song "Heartbreaker" until she got it right. So just 7 years after her debut, she didn't sound good. I cannot listen to that song "Honey" she did, it sounds like she is warbling and she cannot stay on key.

Whitney’s voice might have had a sharper decline than Mariah’s voice but I would argue that her best years lasted longer than Mariah’s best years.

When you also consider that she started using coke/pot at 14-16 years old on top of far more strenuous touring than either Mariah or Celine did, it’s amazing that she could give solid performances up to two decades later.

Mariah and Whitney at the oscars

R170 and R196, I have some insights about Grace Kelly. Don't understand why she isn't more beloved. Her Hitchcock movies are beautiful and so was she. I suspect some may be envious of her exciting life, her mind and determination. For such a beautiful Princess, she looked atrocious in her open casket.

An earlier choice for Prince Rainier's wife was Marilyn Monroe. Monaco was a failing principality who had an investor named Ari Onassis. To save Monaco from being absorbed in France, a plan was devised for the Prince to marry and transform Monaco into an exclusive enclave and tax haven. Marilyn thought he was Prince Reindeer and Monaco was in Africa, but MM was not stupid! She worked diligently to improve herself. She was abused and neglected to her death. I attended a conference hosted by Dr. Cyril Wecht and sat next to Dr. Thomas Noguchi who performed MM's autopsy.

Grace Kelly sacrificed her career and accepted the Prince's proposal. She did a beautiful job raising her children. Her death due a stroke and car accident was unfortunate because she was not transported to the trauma hospital in nearby Nice, France. If she had, she probably would've survived. All the foregoing facts are in the public record.

R210, you're right. Mariah sounded great from 1990 to 1996. Houston sounded great from 1985 to 1995 or so.

OP, I choose you. I feel like you’re a diva. Am I right?

R210 I think Whitney’s voice really was a gift and I think she had really developed it to a very high level as an instrument. I mean it’s an absolute miracle that it lasted as long as it did with all the drugs she took and cigarettes she smoked for decades. She could still sing fairly ok into the new millennium. And even at the end, she still had moments where she could hit certain notes and hold notes quite well. It seemed like if she gave up the cigarettes and practiced like she used to, she could have got her voice back. Interestingly, this was her intention and she apparently said this to Clive Davis a few weeks before she died - that she would get her upper registry back. With Mariah on the other hand, you get the sense that her voice ain’t coming back; it’s gone and it’s gone for good - don’t know what she did to it. She probably didn’t build it to the extent that Whitney did with all her church singing.

R214, Mariah would never touch alcohol when she was with Mottola. Then, she got divorced and started to drink a lot which is bad for your voice. And she would do thousands of takes for her songs without properly taking care of her voice. She never cared to demonstrate or practice "proper technique" and this bit her in the ass. And then she had that bipolar meltdown a few years later and her voice was trashed and has never completely recovered (although she sounded better in her Emancipation of Mimi album).

R215, I don't know a thing about Mariah Carey, but I know that mental problems and alcohol abuse are rampant. Alcohol and/or cigarettes will ruin a person's voice. There are crazy nuts on here and elsewhere who accuse me, but I have not had a drink since 1991. I've had stalkers for years. They won't drive me insane, they need to be exposed and punished. That's what I'm doing without violating confidentiality. People are psycho. Thanks for your post.

[Quote] You would think that if you were Mariah Carey and you were having vocal trouble, you would get help from a coach and a doctor, right? But that requires work and Mariah, never the studious type, is nothing if not lazy. I remember when I worked for Diane Warren, Carey came up to the studio for a few days to work on some song for Rainbow and there were two things that happened that were big red flags. First, Mariah lazed around on the sofa in the lounge (she loved to lounge) while her friend and background singer, Trey Lorenz, was in the studio singing all the guide vocals and runs for her to copy. Though not uncommon these days, it’s not a good sign when someone who is referred to as an important singer of great aptitude needs another singer to feed them the licks; it reflects either a lack of imagination, a lack of skill, or a lack of interest, (or some combination of the three, any of which are not qualities frequently associated with mentoring.)

[Quote] It seemed like if she gave up the cigarettes and practiced like she used to, she could have got her voice back

Are you kidding? Cigarettes actually burn through parts of the vocal cords.

r214 I don't think Whitney would have gotten anything "back" voice-wise by that point unfortunately. She probably could have strengthened what she had left, but by then, the people around her didn't care and they knew she was worth more dead than alive. Michael Jackson died less than 3 years before her and his death generated hundreds of millions of dollars for his estate. They figured Whitney's death could give similar results.

R217 thanks much for that post! Would you please share the source of the original? That person is very wise!

Merle Oberon gets no love here at Datalounge...none despite the fact that her live was almost like a campy novel.

[Quote] thanks much for that post! Would you please share the source of the original? That person is very wise!

The original is at the link.

Spill the tea on Judy Canova.

[Quote] The second red flag was when I tried to have a conversation with Mariah about her musical influences and she looked at me blankly, as if I had asked her to explain how electricity works. For some reason I brought up the subject of Edith Piaf, at which she scrunched her face up and said “I don’t know who that is, are you sure you don’t mean Edith Bunker (referring to Jean Stapleton’s character in All In The Family) and then exploded in peals of laughter like she had just told me something humorous.

[Quote] It surprised me that Mariah didn’t know who Edith Piaf was and didn’t seem curious to find out, but it shouldn’t have. Fortunately for Carey, the tabloid age had arrived, thus ensuring that although she had lost her voice, she had retained her status as a celebrity

R218, i can attest to part of that. My mother began smoking as a teen when it was taught it was cool. I'm an "I Love Lucy" fan although way before my time. My mother and Lucy have similarities, including their voices and polyps on their vocal chords. Lucy blew out her voice when she appeared in the Broadway show "Wildcat". When mom required surgery, we were checked into the same Catholic hospital and my tonsils and adenoids were removed at 12 by the same surgeon who removed her polyps. A huge nurse gave me a suppository I still don't understand. She literally flipped me over and had that in my butt in no time! My apologies if I've "overshared".

I love this picture at the link and the caption beneath it: " Jennifer Lopez's biggest assets are her vocals!".

[R225] Sounds like the nurse was the one who over-shared.

R226 ROFL. JLo couldn't sing if God demanded it for her life.

While we have threads mocking Judy and Liza someone usually brings up or just posts a link to them in their heyday. But nobody does that in Dionne Warwick threads even though in the '60s she was quite good.

[quote] "J-Lo is another story entirely. The high-profile Latina was already a film star and happened to be in the right place at the right time when Ricky Martin exploded on the Grammy Awards in 1999, setting off a Latin music craze. With beauty, charisma and some catchy songs—many produced by my old “friend” Ric Wake and written by his stable of writers—Jennifer was well-positioned to ride the wave, but did anyone actually ever think she could sing? Certainly not Betty Wright, the legendary R&B singer (“Clean Up Woman”) who coached J-Lo in Miami around the time of the first record. Betty would sing “do, re, mi” and Jennifer would sing back “mi, so, la!” Poor Jennifer was unable to sing back simple notes because she was tone deaf! The few times I met her she was super nice and very warm but a singer? It’s generally an indicator when the best thing you can say about a ssomeone’s voice is “she has a great ass.”

R226, I cannot believe anyone would EVER pay to see this fucking trashbucket perform no matter how well she shakes her ass. No wonder middle eastern dictators want her to "perform" for them. Listen to the clip below at 1:28 to hear how tone deaf she has always been. Also see R230.

R227, thanks, I agree. There's much in my past I haven't talked about. I've had a great life and a lot is amusing. That was after HIV/AIDS began and I recall the little devices where nurses were inserting syringes and breaking off needles. Many don't like that I usually don't forget stuff.

-225

I was surprised that J Lo has been successful in Vegas. I guess her early 00s hits have greater resonance than I thought.

"mi, so, la!" LMFAO. I cannot stop laughing at that and I'm at work.

r219 If that conspiracy theory is true, her family is full of idiots. She worth more dead to the record company not to her family. Simon Cowell claimed he wanted her as full time judge for the X-factor if she could maintain her sobriety. He was offering upwards of 20 million. Compare that to the 9 million Whitney’s estate made this year even with the Kygo hit in the UK. Whitney didn’t write the vast majority of her songs. Her money was in touring, films(production and acting), private concerts, special appearances, etc. Things she could only do while alive.

She seemed to hate it but she should have started lip-synching around 2000 like Celine Dion and Mariah Carey. The average person wouldn’t have noticed and she could have hid the full extent of her vocal damage.

Granted if her family wasn’t so shitty, she probably still be alive, in good health, and they wouldn’t have to make her hologram go on tour to make more money.

[quote]Cigarettes actually burn through parts of the vocal cords.

Lucille Ball is probably the most egregious example of that. As she aged her voice became a raspy, gravelly croak.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I think Sarah Vaughn was a far better Jazz singer than Ella Fitzgerald

Ella Fitzgerald's scat didn't come close to Linda Lavin's.

I favour Dinah Washington over both.

From that same link from above, here is a story about Peggy Lee, KD Lang and Madonna.

r235 not really her family, more like her record label. Record sales always increase after an artist's death.

And yet, reissue sales of Whitney's catalogue have been disappointing.

Anita O'Day was one of the greatest jazz singers ever, certainly the best white jazz singer, but she's never really gotten her due.

Look at Joni holding on to Madonna, as much of a starfucker as the rest.

R238 I cringe if I hear L.L. singing that song even though she looks damned great for her age. I can't believe that goofy show "Alice" ran for so many years when I looked it up.

Nine seasons, same as ODAAT

Lena Horne. She was a cunt, correct?

Shove that notion up your lily-white honky ass, R247.

One of my Ella favorites

R247 I've never heard that. She seemed like a gem to me and I'm about as white as white can get other than albino.

I thought I had heard about Lena Horne. I'm wrong.

Did Dionne Warwick did do the whole of the Celebrity Apprentice in sweats and a baseball cap?

[quote] Grace Kelly sacrificed her career and accepted the Prince's proposal. She did a beautiful job raising her children.

Huh? What? Did Grace have other children we don't know about?

Yes, R247. She was a diva, a bitch and more. Most of her real friends were white even though she pretended otherwise. R250, you're nuts. Have you not heard of her less than heterosexual life or are you convinced she was head over heels for her gay husband?

You're using "less than heterosexual" on a gay forum?

R254 I knew Lena was bi or gay, but I can look into a person's eyes and have a good idea what his or her character and soul are. Been doing that since age 5. A relative had gotten drunk underage at a public function. I looked up and asked, "What's wrong with your eyes?" Everyone was laughing as the relative who had me by my hand quickly covered my mouth. Nobody can B.S. me.

Can we PLEASE shut up about that crack whore, Whitney Houston?!

[quote]R221 Merle Oberon gets no love here at Datalounge...none despite the fact that her live was almost like a campy novel.

Like Grace Kelly, she didn’t make enough interesting movies to keep her in peoples minds. At least not avidly.

I. Don't. Do. Crack.

This thread has gone waaaay off topic.

Ironic that Roseanne and Joan Jett are the first two mentioned in replies here, as Joan appeared on Roseanne's talk show back in the day, and Roseanne is a huge admirer of hers. I love them both, but the DL can be brutal about them.

And there is a bona fide Joan Jett troll here on this site that likes to spew all sorts of mean lies about her. And then whenever anyone (like me) loves her a lot, we get called a troll for loving her, instead of the actual troll. Just can't win when it comes to JJ in the DL!

r257 Until there was an account of of trading sexual favors for drugs, she was not a crack whore. No, datalounge isn’t going to stop talking about her or any other diva. No one is more obsessed with divas than old queens.

Isn't Joan Jett closeted? Why would you expect her to be well received here?

Datalounge hates every Black female celeb that has ever existed

Whitney was a good girl. Always. The greatest one of all. I love her. RIP.

[Quote] Datalounge hates every Black female celeb that has ever existed

We're actually so-so on Julia Roberts.

[quote]R262 Until there was an account of trading sexual favors for drugs, she was not a crack whore.

To be safe, I guess we should just call her a crack mom (?)

r266 It’s a shame she didn’t get chance to play Harriet Tubman. A commanding performance might have swayed your opinion of her.

r267 Is that what you call your mum?

[quote]Isn't Joan Jett closeted? Why would you expect her to be well received here?

r263- Are you implying that only "out", queer divas are well-received here? Then, wouldn't that disqualify Cher, Madonna, Whitney, Joan Crawford, AND Bette Davis (just to name a few)? Crawford was bi but didn't exactly announce it to the world.

Joan Jett can't come out of the closet, since she was never in the closet. She just never made a big "I'm gay" announcement like Ellen and others. But, she does where a lesbian necklace, has lesbian stickers on a couple of her guitars, and is very relate-able to all sorts of people, so why wouldn't she be well-received here?!

Joan had this to say in 2018 when asked about not being "out":

[quote]People aren’t going to tell me what to do. I’m not going to be told how to live and how I can be myself — “You must say it.” It’s like, the more you want me to say it, the more I won’t say it. I’ll just do it. I’m telling my story every day onstage, loud. And if you choose not to hear it because you want me to do it in the way you want me to do it? Fine, I’m not going to make you happy then. If this isn’t for you, bye. But I think I declare every day, all day long.

[quote]It’s not good enough to say, [singing her version of “Crimson and Clover”] “I don’t hardly know her, but I think I could love her”? [Pointing to the necklace] that’s not good enough. You know what I say? Eat me.

[quote]R268 Is that what you call your mum?

No, because my mom isn’t Whitney Houston.

Whitney’s kid was another crack ho so stupid she drowned in a bathtub.

Like crack mom, like crack daughter.

[Quote] ou know what I say? Eat me.

So dom top.

r271- I don't know. I would think tops are the ones doing the eating, not being eaten, ha.

I think she's mostly a top, yes. But, she doesn't mind switching it up too. According to a song she co-wrote (that I think is about her) called "Baby Blue", she's a "switch-hitter".

R269 I'll never understand LGBTs who say that they are open but can't say "I'm gay" or "I'm a lesbian" when it is needed to be addressed.

If it's no bid deal just say it & move on. She has a stick up her ass about it for some reason.

I've never met a hetero who couldn't say the magic words "I'm straight" whenever asked or when the situation called for it.

It's a shame some LGBTs like Joan will never be able to advance to that basic level.

I don't like Stans who put artists into "Diva" positions.

^ And with that, you've just proven why Joan Jett is perfect for this thread, r273, cause you're so uptight.

But, regarding WHY she doesn't just say it, she says one of the reasons is that she doesn't want to spoil any of her fans' fantasies about her. She says that whatever your fantasies are, she can be that. Whatever you're into, she can be that.

She says she wants everyone- guys, girls, and everyone in-between- to think that she's singing for them and their team, because she is.

She says it's very important to her to maintain a sense of mystique like in the days of old Hollywood. She says a bit of mystery is good, because it keeps people interested. According to her (and she's generally right about this), as soon as people get all the answers to a mystery though, they're like "Okay, now we know what that is. Moving on." So, she wants to keep people guessing, to keep them intrigued. And she says people can use their own vibe to figure it out.

So, that's your answer- and it's a very good one!

But who's "guessing" about Joan Jett? Where's the intrigue?

r276- Obviously lots of people, cause she keeps being asked the question!

So obviously, people are very intrigued.

Joon Jett is without talent or mystery. She's an 80 year old bald chick throwing devil signs.

[quote]But, regarding WHY she doesn't just say it, she says one of the reasons is that she doesn't want to spoil any of her fans' fantasies about her.

Lots of celebrities have said this before and it's all total BS.

r279- You can't speak for them.

The only thing that's B.S. is you saying it is.

R269 thanks. I've never heard anything bad about Joan Jett. I'm not a gossip queen. Never cared for the label "diva" unless it's the classic version.

r278- I shouldn't even dignify your stupidity with a response, but dude, you're full of crap! Cause you keep posting that stupid wig lie and you keep saying Joan is bald.

BUT! People who are bald and wear wigs do not sweat all over like this, with it dripping from all over! They do not have thinning spots either.

At the 2:54 mark, you can clearly see her scalp!

So, take your lies and shove them up your bum, you bum!

r281- You're very welcome.

I've heard some bad things about her, but mostly good things. And I'm not saying she's perfect, cause if someone had a genuinely bad experience with her, then it's their right to vent about it if they want. It's okay to tell the truth. But, some of the stuff I've read about her are clearly lies, so gotta call those out. :-)

[Quote] Obviously lots of people, cause she keeps being asked the question!

[Quote] So obviously, people are very intrigued.

The truth is as plain as the plastic surgery on her face.

Joan Jett is not a diva. She's not even a singer. Get the fuck off this thread LOON.

Madonna, of course.

I'll never understand the Madonna hate on DL. She peaked way before my time but she was certainly one of the first to stick up for gay men. My uncle who's fifty-three claims she saved his life.

r281- And needless to say, most of the "bad things" I've heard about her have been either misunderstood, taken out of context, or made up anyway.

She used to have a bad drinking problem on and off for years, before ending it a little over a decade ago. So of course some who were around her then are going to have bad memories of it. But, she has cleaned up her act a lot since then.

[quote] I can look into a person's eyes and have a good idea what his or her character and soul are. Been doing that since age 5.

r256- That's very cool! Can you do it by photo? What do you get when you look into Joan Jett's eyes?

When I look into those eyes, I see a brow lift.

Heroin.

...This one was from early this year shows her eyes pretty good too.

r288- I meant what does r256 get about her personality/soul by looking into her eyes, jerk!

r289- Joan doesn't do heroin!

Oh, enough already. Start a Joan Jett thread.

r291- You say that on a thread that has numerous posts about the same people over and over again, and yet, Joan Jett should be the exception? No, not listening to you.

HelloWorld is a monster. Much like junkie Joon Jet. 🤘

r293- Thanks for the complement! Joan and I are indeed two peas in a pod.

But, you forgot that it's the Gaga fans who are monsters. Don't get us mixed up, please.

GoodbyeWorld.

r296- ...

Does Joan still condone and support the rape of teenage girls? She always found that amusing. Probably joined in.

r298- According to who?! Jackie Fox and her "witnesses" that were probably paid to lie almost 40 years after the fact, and right after a guy dropped dead and couldn't defend himself?!

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Next!

R287, I'd rather not comment. People exude energy. A nice guy I met at 19 told me he was attracted to several things, including my yellow aura and soul. I thought he was batshit crazy. Fast forward 20 years. A chaplain said she sees it and I nearly pissed myself! Read about people with dark souls. I can sense it and stay away from them.

r300- You mean you can't read her energy from her photo, or you can, and you'd rather not say what it is?

R301 I need to be in a person's presence, not just see his or her eyes. And no, I don't consider myself psychic or clairvoyant.

-300

I previously never thought one way or the other about Joan Jett after the last several posts attempting to derail this thread I now firmly dislike her.

Stay on topic or start your own thread.

r302- Well, ya had me worried there, when you said you'd rather not comment, haha.

The people who have been around Joan usually say she seems very shy and stand-offish, or they say she's got a very comforting presence.

And r303- THIS IS on topic, dirtbag- she's a diva, and you dislike her. Hence the title of this thread!

Joon Jet does have her own thread where HelloWorld talks to itself as TheGarafoholic. They compliment each other's post and say things like "Oh, I didn't know that. Good find!" They are one and the same nutjob. A man of course. A sick and relentless obsession. Don't let the faux naive tone fool you. The poster is demented and dangerous.

r305- Oh, how wrong you are.

If your life depended on getting that right, you'd be a goner! I didn't even know who Garafalo was, until that fan of hers started commenting on Joan threads, because he's a fan of both. She was new to me.

Not all of us are devious trolls like you. Stop projecting.

Anyway...

Madonna makes it hard to like her. Her recent concert behavior is indefensible.

r307- Yeah, and anyway, Madonna is not even the same species as Joan Jett.

So pretentious.

[Quote] people with dark souls. I can sense it and stay away from them.

And yet here you are at the Data Lounge.

R302- Just out of curiosity, how did you figure out about Lena Horne though? I mean, did you meet her, or was it just from what you've learned about her from reading and stuff?

Regarding Joan, if you do have some insight you get from looking at her pictures, please do feel free to say. I won't go off on you. I only get mad at people who are clearly out to troll (there are a few here). I don't get mad at a difference of opinion or honesty though. Those traits are fine by me. :-)

r309- Touche!

R310, it was published about Lena meeting 2 female fans in her private dressing room her robe opened to reveal her nude body and she embraced one of them. I'd say a str8 lady wouldn't do that. Pertaining to her general character, I use my own general ideas. Emphasize I'm not God and don't get to "judge" people. But can't truly sense a person's energy unless I'm in his or presence. Eyes usually tell. There were/are a few famous CEOs & poker players good at deception. Use must know Gaga's song "Poker Face".

R309, I'm not a petty bitch. If one's disturbing on the net, it's a simple as turning off a device. I've met high-quality men & women via the net. Lowlifes are no reason to disqualify them.

r312- I think I get what you're saying. You mean that you do read the eyes, but that you aren't able to read them from pictures- you have to be in person to read them, because that's when you pick up on the energy. And then the rest of the time, you surmise who a person is based on what you've learned about them. Is that right?

If so, please don't take the Joan Jett troll here seriously; he likes to lie about her and say bad stuff that isn't true. I don't know why, but I think maybe he wishes she were straight or something. Maybe it's Steven Tyler...

Julie Bowen seems like a grade-C Cunt.

I was smoking buddies with Julie Bowen in college. She wasn't a cunt at all. We could still smoke in the library! I guess that was the last gasp of that wonderful life!

Hmm, regular cigarettes or wacky tobaccy, R315? 420?

r315- Well that's random. Who'da thought that a few minutes after her name comes up, someone who used to know her chimes in.

Gotta love (or hate) the DL!

...Or, maybe it's Julie Bowen, responding to her Google alerts, LOL!

The entire cast of modern family seem to be full of themselves cunts. I get an especially nasty vibe from Ed o Neill. I've hated that mean looking fug since Married With Children. And is it true that Julie Bowen fucked Tucker Carlson? I remember reading rumors a couple of years ago but it was never confirmed.

How could anyone fuck Tucker Carlson? That is a chilling thought.

R319 Ed O'Neill seems like a bitter old queen to me. He has never seemed straight but rather a sad closeted jock. He's got a particularly nelly voice.

Enough with Whitney Houston. All that shit's been discussed in numerous other threads.

R316 wacky tobaccy? Never touched the stuff. Thanks, I needed to laugh! R321, Ed O'Neill is closeted. Don't know if he's bi or gay. R313, I won't comment further on Joan Jett other than I ve never "heard" or read anything "bad" about her. Stephen Tyler is almost as bad as bad can get, which is documented.

R310 or whatever, it was also established that Lena was a lesbian (or close) in at least two books with first hand info. That's fine, but she should have divorced that dead weight drunken white husband long before his death. They only parted "at his death" according to her bio. In reality, they'd been separated for a decade and lived on different coasts. He was an albatross around her neck , and her one link to heterosexuality. Lena was also a bitch as far as show business bitches go...I'm sure there are many here with first hand info who can testify.

R324 that's what celebrities did or similar, like Van Johnson, Rock Hudson, etc. Wedding vows state "till death do us part." Some people take those seriously. A true story about the divine Yankee, Bette Davis. I met a man who grew up with oil heating in an exclusive area of the Northeast. During a power outage, smoke was visible from their chimney during daytime. He answered frantic knocking on his door. Miss Davis demanded, "You have heat, I do not, now let me in!" His mother welcomed her as a guest until power was restored.

r322 Are you illiterate? The last 50+ post have been about Joan Jett. Quite frankly, I’m surprised there is someone that gives this much of a shit about her. There are far better female rockers.

I don’t know what it says about me but I tend to be put off by stars that are mindlessly beloved by the public as if their shit doesn’t stink. Therefor, I’ve never quite liked Dolly Parton.

Happy 80th birthday to Tina Turner Bach. At her 60th birthday concert before she blew out the candles on her cake, she said here's looking forward to my next 60 years. I hope she gets them.

[quote][R313], I won't comment further on Joan Jett other than I ve never "heard" or read anything "bad" about her.

r323- Well, like I said, most people have nice things to say about her. It seems like the one person here who doesn't is just a troll.

I've noticed though, that by and large, people here have acted like there's some unspoken rule against commenting on her. And they W/W all the troll comments made about her, like that's a good thing! Very bizarre!

So, on that note, here's what Joan has said about some of that strange behavior:

[quote]“Aggressive, tough and defiant may describe me, but that leaves the impression I’m mean and I’m not. People expect me to have fangs.”

r326- You are a jerk.

R327, Dolly was quoted on Larry King Live that Christians should stop hating gays and learn to love more. To me, she's always seemed kind and genuine. That may be why she's vilified. Fresh sh*t isn't supposed to always stink. If yours does, please consult a gastroenterologist.

Joan Jett isn't fit to clean Whitney's bathroom.

r331- Shut up, arse!

So back on topic...

What about Whoopi Goldberg? Fraus still think she's profound and provocative. She basically discusses her bowel movements for a seven figure fee on The View.

R333 I don't watch The View. Seriously? Any news about her losing her voice?

When Whoopi was first hired full-time on The View we thought she was going to be liked Rosie -- someone just too much for frau sensibility to keep on.

There was hints of that before when she guested. At the height of Bennifer JLO appeared and Whoopi was having nothing about her claims she was actually quite media shy.

But it eventually became apparent that she doesn't really hold any out-there controversial opinions like we expected. Or speak truth to the power. We were taken in because she had dreads and little glasses and a hippie persona.

There's no way 2019 Whoopi would do what 2006 Rosie did and suggest the Bush Admin staged 9/11. Whoopi's views on everything are basically the same as Ellen's, but wrapped up differently.

Dolly's made a few more gay-friendly comments than most country stars. Like Reba who 'doesn't judge'.

Anyway, she doesn't really ping to me...

Datalounge always describes Lorna Luft as mean.

Here's one person DL DOES seem to like more than the rest of the world: Ruth Madoff.

Datalounge never has a good word for Neely O'Hara.

That's because she thinks she's entitled to our men.

[quote]Stay on topic or start your own thread.

r303- Hey idiot OP- I did what you asked and started my own thread yesterday (as you know), and then you came onto it just to say that you gave it a F/F! What the freak is wrong with you?! I did what you asked, and then you try to mess it up?! You make no sense!!

Gotta hand it to ya- you are a grade-A troll!

I seldom see Sigourney Weaver mentioned in a positive way, which puzzles me a bit as I think she's an accomplished actress.

Dolly's done more for her home state than any politician. She is an enormous humanitarian and very charitable with her money. She's also one of the few celebrities whom you will not hear one unkind story about. That's why she's beloved.

R342 hi I agree. Her father, Sylvester Weaver, was former President of NBC who was credited by Johnny Carson for creating "The Tonight Show."

With all due respect to the Dolly and Sigourney praise, this thread is called "Divas Datalounge DOESN'T like" not about butt-kissing. It is questioning why the people of this site seem to have a vendetta against certain ones.

Hence, for all the flack I got for bringing Joan Jett here, at least it shows how right I was to do so- and at least I understand the true meaning of this thread- even better than the hypocritical OP, apparently!

You could've just mentioned Joan Jett without trying to take over the thread and thus suck all the life out of it.

r346- It's called HAVING A CONVERSATION.

As long as someone replies and says something that seems to warrant a response, I will respond. It's that simple. ESPECIALLY if the people responding are lying or incorrect- in which case, I would be remiss not to respond.

Back on topic...

Here's something someone else on here once said: For all the talk of Helen Lawson there is relatively talk about Susan Hayward.

She was A-list for two decades and a filmography filled with campy performances so is there any reason we don't hear more of her?

r348- Why do you keep saying cunty things like "So, back on topic..." like I wasn't on topic?!

I WAS ON TOPIC!!

R348 I looked up Susan Hayward. She was old Hollywood. Looked pretty. Was in a movie titled "The Amazing Dr. Clitterhouse". Who came up with that? LOL. Hayward was lifelong GOP. Uh oh! That would mean she probably wouldn't be particularly popular here. She supported Eisenhower, who supported the drunken rapist McCarthy. Unacceptable!

I hear they called her "the poor man's Bette Davis."

I appreciate that I don't see the over the top Marilyn Monroe affection here that is present in parts of American culture. I find her so overrated and her child like voice and mannerisms repulse me, although they seemed to bring out protective instincts in others.

Agreed, R352.

There are rumors about Hayward being homophobic.

R354 a safe guess is that at least half of American Republicans are homophobic. I've never seen any statistics on that. I know Bob Hope and Jimmy Stewart were. John Wayne constantly harassed Rock Hudson, so Hudson called him by his given first name, Marion.

-Gen Xer

Hayward often played a "gal with a gun" as well as women in jeopardy. She also played a mean Helen Lawson---for that and especially the bathroom scene and that atrocious tree song number, should should be a DL icon.

Her Ross Hunter types roles, Where Love Has Gone, I Want to Live!, I'll Cry Tomorrow, Smash-Up: Story of a Woman, and With a Song in My Heart (where her breast falls out) are all the sort of thing DL loves.

"I hear they called her 'the poor man's Bette Davis."'

Susan Hayward was more of a modern day (1950s) version of Barbara Stanwyck, who was, incidentally, her idol. Both were tough talking Brooklyn girls.

Chrissy Metz -- beloved by flyover fraus, here we don't go along with her HAES garbage.

Lorna Luft

Richard Simmons

[R345] you are obnoxious.

r362- You have the audacity to call ME obnoxious, after ALL the snotty things that have been said on this thread by others?! LOL!! That's rich, and proves that you're a fool.

Here, hold this cherry bomb for me while I laugh at your idiocy...

Joon Jett is not worth a good god damn. She can't sing or dance and she let her fellow cheerleaders be raped in front of her and then made fun of it 35 years later? Fuck her!!! She's dirt. Talentless bald junkie dirt. I had to google her to find these things out, but she admitted to them. Her lousy music is ABC toddler level. Four chords and a lie. That ugly bald junkie bitch is a joke. To the left, everything you own in the box to the left Joon Jett Troll. You must not know about ME. Joan Jett does not belong here. She's not wanted.

I can list two hundred divas and still not encounter Joan Jet.

r364- You know nothing about Joan, as you readily admit. You didn't know who she was when you claimed to have crossed paths with her, and you had to Google other things- and even then, you can't get it right! So, sit the actual f- down, you scumbag! You know nothing!!!

By the way, Joan was just a teen girl herself when the alleged incident was to have taken place between her band manager and one of her band-mates. As I said before, everyone was strung out or drunk at the time, as it was a party, it was the rock world, and it was the sexy 70s. You expect that anyone thought anything about that being an issue at the time- let alone be cognizant enough to realize if it were an issue?! If you do, then once again pal, you're a fool!!

It is entirely insane to think that almost 40 years later, one band member's memory would suddenly be crystal clear, when it wasn't before!! Which leads me to another point: Jackie Fox used to have a blog in the 2000s that she posted Runaways memories on, and here's a shocker!! IT WAS ALL GOOD STUFF!! Yeah, that's right- little miss "I'm a victim" was actually out there talking about how great her time with the band was, and what a nice band-mate Joan was (she actually admitted that Joan was the level-headed peacemaker among her band-mates, who would scarcely ever get into petty spats like the other girls)!!

Funny how Jackie didn't change her story and change herself into a victim until the manager died and Joan was being inducted into the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame. Right as all that was going on was when Jackie suddenly came out with this "story". It's clear to me that she was just looking to make waves, cause she's a narcissist and wanted an extra 15 minutes of fame, so what better timing than then, when she could try to steal the spotlight from Joan, during her special moment!!

So, as far as I'm concerned, Jackie Fox is the girl who cried wolf (much like you), and she can't be trusted. Period!

Joon Jett is still a junkie 40 years later. How the fuck would anyone know what she was about in the seventies? She's not some dogface supermodel like Gia Carangmi? Yeah they made a bomb movie about Joan Jett and even Kristen Stewart, who played her, couldn't stand her. As if Joan Junk was ever that attractive. They all have no relevance now at all and really weren't that important then if you put things in perspective. Joon Jet can't sing or write songs or even perform without 40 lbs of reverb. Her songs are so basic and bad - more like a parody of what a rock chick would sound like. And her voice is nothing. That's why she's never mentioned with Janis, Tina, Ann, Stevie, Chrissie and Grace as one of the great female rock stars. She's a little girl who liked rape and drugs. Except she's 70 fucking years old. Still ditching her wigs and needles in strangers bathrooms. Joanne Jett is a sad old bitch, just like her troll. aka HelloWorld. Goodnite Joon.

R366- You seriously can't be this dumb, can you?! No, surely you must be kidding about all this....

It's starting to seem like you have a deep-seated crush on Joan, and are deliberately playing dumb so that someone can come along and correct you, thereby elevating your lady-love in your mind. You are one sick puppy!

So yeah, on that note, as for your first lie in the above post, Kristen Stewart not only CAN stand Joan, but they remain good friends to this day, nearly a decade later! Joan's loyalty is unparalleled. She was the only one among her Runaways bandmates who made hospital visits to her bandmates whenever they were ill, and they would awake to find her asleep in the chair next to their bed, cause she wouldn't leave their side while they were in-need. That's the kind of person she is. That's the kind of person they all know she is- cause she was there for them, when no-one else was!!

When she makes a friend, she keeps it, and that says a lot about her. Kristen continues to visit Joan at concerts and talk to her on the phone, and Joan continues to be friends with many of the people from when she was first starting out, like Debbie Harry of Blondie.

Joan is the type of person you would want on your side, cause when the chips are down and the whole world is against you, Joan will be the lone wolf, out there by your side when no one else wants anything to do with you. So, just lay off her!! You just wish you had a friend as good as she is.

And once again, she is not bald, and does not do hard drugs! Only pot. So, stop lying about her, for goodness sake!!!

R24 What is especially wrong with still smoking weed in your 70s?🤔

What a sad sad world. Mad World. HelloWorld inhabits. Joan Jett was carrying for Debbie Harry above. Does ancient junkie Debbie look pleased to be photographed with ancient junkie has been Juan Jett? No. Harry was photobombed by her dealer. Sad. And Kristen Stewart has nothing to do with Joon Jett. They do not speak. People get tired of junkies and their lies. Even untalented actresses who played talentless "singers." There's plenty of obscurity to go around for Debbie, Kristen and the bald one.

r369- Your lies are unending.

If they don't speak, then how come Kristen was at one of Joan's concerts, in the V.I.P. section not long ago? How come she was in Joan's doc? And how come Joan refers to her as a friend?!

And yea, Debbie was very pleased to be there with Joan. They even did a music video together, and Debbie was so happy to do that with Joan!

You are a joke.

Only Janet Jackson was less talented than Joan Jett. At least Janet was successful for a while. But everyone understands that they were both frauds and fakes. Debbie Harry will appear anywhere they pay her enough. Her work is junk too. But not as big crap as Joon Jets.

r371- Not even you believe the lies you spout. It's just f-ed up fan-fiction.

Joan is beloved. You don't have to believe it, but evidence shows its true. Her friend-circle is very broad, and they all know how lucky they are to know her- and she knows she's blessed to know them. She takes none of it for granted, which is why they all want her around- and which is why she's a legend now.

It's not always about technical skill, it's about legacy. Joan has made a great legacy for herself, cemented in gratitude for the friendships she holds dear, like Darlene Love, who asked Joan to be part of her video too! Another decades-long friendship!! They have been pals since the 1980s!

Yes, I realize it's easy to get jealous, but don't. Just learn from it that there is true love in this world. Let Joan's legacy and loyalty teach you that, if nothing else.

R368 informed people know weed destroys decision-making ability. Reference George Michael, who admitted smoking weed 25x daily. Where is he now? I'm staying out of further debate other than my state has medical marijuana. If a diva decides to smoke weed and into her 70s, that demonstrates something.

-Never touched weed or other illicit drug/Never been drunk

Weed isn't legal in Brazil, where Dionne lives full-time now, so it makes you wonder how she gets it.

Does anyone remember the old IMDb boards? Movie Awards in particular?

There was an intense hatred of Streep on that one particular board. This is common. Boards have a beehive like mentality. We see this on DL with Susan Sarandon. Nobody dares speak out, not even, necessarily, in her defense, but about how ridiculous the whole idea is that she's responsible for Trump (if every pitiful few Jill Stein voters had voted for Hillary she still would have lost).

So on Movie Awards, in their efforts to denigrate Streep they would often attempt to elevate actresses they saw as competition to her. And so people like Viola Davis, Jessica Lange, Jennifer Lawrence, K Hepburn, Julie Andrews (whom the board once voted the BA of 1982), Christine Baranski, Sandra Bullock, Cate Blanchett, and others were often sort of artificially beloved by the board, yet they never really cared for them.

When any of them had their own threads they got little attention and most of the posts were about how they were so, so better than Streep. Hating Streep was the goal, they were just tools -- but if you weren't familiar with the board you mightn't realize that.

I bring this up because a similar thing was happening on Datalounge at the same time. I know of at least one poster who posted on both and I'm sure they shared more.

Anyway, I'm sure this is the case regarding Susan Sarandon on DL -- she was never REALLY liked (which is kinda a shame) -- but explains why DL was so quick to turn on her.

People LIKE OPRAH. Well they like the original Oprah before she went all new age and crap like that. That was the real, true Oprah and the DL like her then.

Tacky, 'gurlfriend..' '90s Oprah was fun.

Constantly shouting, self-help, inexplicable elder stateswoman '10s Oprah is boring.

The last time she was relatable. 2011.

The word "diva" used to refer to a legitimate opera singer.

Since the 1990s, it has been handed out to almost every female celebrity indiscriminately.

Maybe because opera is now culturally irrelevant?

Thank every school that sacrificed arts for sports, R380.

No, it happened that.

No, it happened BEFORE that.

[quote]Maybe because opera is now culturally irrelevant?

Because Gen Xers and millennials would rather listen to noise than music.

Opera was over long before then.

Oprah has been over since her Disney movie flopped like her on a bed after having to do stairs.

Oprah has had a much, much larger impact on US culture than opera.

That's because most Americans are as fat as she is. But then they should be more interested in opera. You know what they say, it ain't over until the fat lady sings.

It's because her You-be-you! 'psychobabble' normalised the end of fat-shaming.

Opera doesn't really work for most of us English speakers. But Americans did love musical theatre up until the '60s.

I never get my due here. All I here about is Helen Lawson, Helen Lawson, Helen Lawson!

r390- Now, THIS^^^ I agree with!! Joan Crawford and any part she plays is gold- but she often gets ragged on mercilessly. She was great though.

R391, hello HelloWorld. We chatted about JoanJett. I'm an abuse survivor. At a young age, I read Christina's book and knew it was true. Nobody can fabricate those genuine horrors. Fortunately, my parents weren't raging alcoholics like Joan, which directly contributed to her death. She (Lucille LeSeuer) was mentally ill and deserves to be in Hades if it exists. A lot of Hollywood knew what occurred, especially in Joan's Brentwood home, including her neighbors, Helen Hayes and her son, but chose to do nothing about it. I survived, but Joan's son did not.

-GenXer

One that came to mind I've never seen discussed here(at least in my few years) is Michelle Shocked.

Exene Cervenka. She's in Roseanne territory.

I love Exene's work with X, but she is just embarrassing now. And it's sad.

Virginia Graham

Miss Lindsay Graham

Michelle Shocked is a big old homophobe.

Why am I forgotten?

R398 I love that song!

r399, I do too..did she marry a gay man or an asexual? yee I would at least try for such a lovely woman!!!

R400 I have no idea

“Diva” has become little more than a synonym for “bitch.” Gay men need to start worshiping and adoring gay male entertainers.

And proving the point at R375, here’s a Sally Field thread.

At least she gave birth to a gay man.

R404, does that mean Sally gets a cookie? I wanted a boy when I was young. If I had a choice, I would not want him to be gay because I know the journey and the pain.

R389, fat-shaming is no different than racism and bigotry., of which you're guilty. People come in all colors and in all shapes and sizes. I suspect I know who you are.

Chrissy Metz at R406!

R407, I don't know who Chrissy Metz is and I don't care. My BMI is normal. Go straight to Hades.

r392- Well, I can't lie and say that I'm not a fan of Crawford, but I am sorry for the pain of your past. I hope you are healing and feeling better day by day.

R409, thanks, I'm over that past and have many challenges to face now. I'm so upset about what happened to Christina and Christopher's death, it blinds me thinking about anything else. That grandchild of Joan's (Casey LeLonde?) is a cad for trying to restore her image. I'll stop there. Thanks for your kind thoughts! Hope you had a great holiday.

Fat shaming really is no different than any other kind of bigotry. ISIS would love to push Chrissy Metz off a building, if they didn’t fear the inevitable earthquake. The KKK would love to lynch her, provided they could find a tree strong enough.

I reject the premise. I'm a gay white man, and I love Oprah. Who wouldn't want to be her best friend? It would be a blast.

And I don't really care one way or another about Bey. She's insanely beautiful and talented and successful. Her music is not the kind of music I listen to, but obviously millions of people love it. Good for her.

Bernie Sanders.

R406, you landed in the wrong forum. You cannot be the fat police observer here. Join the John Simon lover and GO AWAY.

Shame-shaming is tiresome.

John Simon hated on fat people TOO. And FAGS. Dataloungers think they can pick and choose what is morally offensive. The ancient WHITE fag posters who attempt to control DL are misogynist, racist and body shaming BIGOTS. They have no problem with it. But I'll be F&F for using the word fag. Go figure.

r416, Oh I agree darling, cigarettes are so common. Pleas come and share a pipe with me.

Huh? Crack is cheap. Old white gay men do crack and meth. No thanks R417. Take care, god bless you.

R416 is why I only date white men.

Nazis Idiotically Gay-bash Guys of Every Race

John Simon, the waaaaaaay closeted homo

R414, R416, R421, I had to search the bio for John Simon because a lot of people, including many pro athletes, are insignificant and not worth my time. R421, It's sick and twisted when perv #1 gets mad at perv #2, then accuses perv #2 of being something entirely separate and probably what perv #1 is. Hopefully I'm not the only rational man with a healthy mind who sees the irony. R416 and R420 are correct. I'm not old or "elder" simply because I'm over 30.

Oh, I see LSA has arrived...

How is fat shaming the same as racism or bigotry? You choose to be fat- you can’t choose your skin color.

R424 I'm not fat. If you ASSumed that you made an ASS of yourself!

It greatly makes light of the Gay Rights Struggle to suggest that fat shaming is just as bad.

R426 being negative to anyone for any reason demonstrates to the world the type of person the offender is. Bisexual and gay people like myself don't deserve special rights, only equal rights.

Let’s F&F R427 and the other LSA trolls back to where they came from.

There is a contingent here that doesn’t like Grace Kelly for ‘stealing’ Judy’s Oscar.

Yes, really.

R428 I'm not LSA, whatever that batshit crazy slang abbreviation may supposedly mean. Grace Kelly shouldn't be disliked because she was awarded the Oscar that Judy Garland deserved for "A Star Is Born". The Academy and its voting members did that, not Grace. I won't reveal my post numbers, but they have many likes, whereas yours don't. I'm not mentally challenged or disturbed. You may be. Your crusade won't be successful.

-427

Whitney's story is more sad than Dionne's (who just a low-down hussy).

Poor Whitney obviously had problems.

R430 your 2nd second sentence is one of the biggest understatement I've ever seen! I'll be hated for this, but I've never heard Dionne is a low-down hussy. She's awfully low-rent for doing that psychic line stuff.

Probably not legendary enough to merit attention here, but Linda Lavin is pretty well hated by many.

I'd like to see a little more discussion here on European divas, like Edith Piaf . DL doesn't seem as interested in European stars, though it is an American based site so that's to be expected.

Edith Piaf was never big in the US.

Edith Piaf is not discussed because she’s irrelevant not that she’s not American.

I’d like a little more love for some non American divas though, like Kylie Minogue.

R432 I think Linda Lavin looks great for age. However, that show "Alice" was awful and I can't believe how long it ran after I searched it. Do you know if that's why she isn't well-liked?

Why is Lorna Luft not adored by DL and only seen as a molestation victim?

Linda Lavin's an underrated singer. Her singing on "Alice" was quite good. She could have had a nice cabaret career a la Barbara Cook or Bernadette Peters. She could scat really well.

"Linda Lavin's an underrated singer"

Is there a PUKE button?

R438, R439 I like Linda, but if I hear her sing that into song to "Alice" I want to hurl.

so SUH-WEEEE-EEEE-EEETTT-TAHH!

...bup, bup, bup, bup...

Marie Osmond

Valerie BertandErnie

I highly doubt I'll ever make the cut.

💟 You All !

JonBenet Ramsey. A troublemaker that one.

We love you though, Patsy.

Don't worry, all us gay men understand what pains badly behaving girls can be.

Anita Bryant

Speaking of that horrible witch, here's the most recent photo of her, from March 2019.

And here she is with Marie Osmond.

Some don't. Who doesn't like something about MM ?

R449 I knew both of those witches are no good. Look at the hand in R448's photo, as well as in yours. My mother always said you can gauge a woman's age from her hands. I can't believe Bryant is still alive. When I'm trying to enjoy a bit of television, I'm annoyed by Osmond doing a commercial for a weight loss product while pointing her finger.

I'm not really interested in Marilyn.

And I don't like straight women invading this space.

"Tori Amos is my touchstone and goddess"

That comment deserves the lesbian equivalent of a MARY! which is:

NAN!

Chrissy Metz

Datalounge has sacrificed a lot of bandwidth to discuss Chrissy.

R455 I had no idea who shet is and searched her a couple days ago. Losers obsessed with her need to get a life! Anyone in her situation has serious problems. So do many gays. They just manifest in different ways. According to the twisted gay way, it's "evil" to be obese due to medical/mental health issues, but barebacking and drug use are acceptable. That's beyond fucked up.

Christina Aguilera

In R456 above, replace "shet" with "she" and replace "drug" with "substance" which includes alcohol. And don't attack me about semantics. I respect anyone in a monogamous relationship, so fuck away how you prefer. If a man puts his dick in anyone without a condom or anyone permits a man to put his dick in you without a condom, you're supposed know the many potential consequences that PrEP, antibiotics and antivirals can't solve. In my state, it's a felony to transmit viral STIs.

R456

Just saw this: Kristen Stewart seen here, not too long ago, walking around wearing official Joan Jett/Runaways merch.

Eat your heart out, r366!

Joan Jett is a bald junkie with no talent.

r460- Sure she is, troll.

R461, hello HelloWorld, how are you? We talked about a lot of things recently.

Yeah, you talk to yourself. Same poster.

r462- I'm good, thanks. How are you? I hope you are well and hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!

R464, thanks, glad to hear and likewise!

Meghan McCain

R466 now that bitch is absolutely worthless!

We like her!

The Spice Girls

R469 I don't know anyone who likes them.

R470 I don't like Scary Spice or Posh Spice but the other 3 are fine.

Paula Abdul

Joon Jett needs to wear lighter colored wigs. With all the bad plastic surgery, crooked eyes and the tacky dark wigs, she looks demonic.

R473 She looks like a Disney villainess.

She was a none hit wonder in Europe, I am surprised anyone under 50 would know Joan Jett

Rihanna

r473- For the millionth time, Joan Jett might wear wigs or hair pieces from time to time, but generally, what you see is not a wig, but her own hair, which is why it drenches from top to bottom in dripping sweat at her concerts. Wigs wouldn't drip sweat from top to bottom. And wigs do not show the scalp like this. So, be a fan or not, but don't lie!

Her looks aren't the main reason I like her anyway. So, your insults about her looks don't even matter. But at least get it right!

r475- How could you be surprised? She was inducted into the RnR Hall of Fame by Miley Cyrus, has appeared on her YouTube channel and participated in The Voice with her, she has had her music featured in movies like Shrek and Ready Player One, and she has been played by youth acting fave Kristen Stewart. It makes perfect sense that she would have a very broad fan-base.

... Joan's hits or not are not what makes her a legend. It's how she's been there for others throughout her career, helping them, giving them a boast, cheering them on, that has made her so well-loved. And that's the main reason I'm a fan, because it's not all about her. I see how far-reaching her influence is, but she doesn't let it be all about her, which I find extremely appealing. She takes joy in others' successes, and that, I doubt is so common.

She produces for other people, shows up at their gigs, cheers them on... Plus, I don't know how common this is for musicians, but at least in Joan's case, she carries her CDs around with her a lot of the time, so that if a random fan walks up to her and wants an autograph one day, but has nothing for her to sign, she or her manager will whip out a CD and she'll sign that. So, the fan gets free merch from Joan often! If she had a great time with you, she'll leave her autographed album behind for you. She also tends to do this for service industry people who help her out, and will often give them free tickets to her show too.

So yeah, the Mrs. Claus of music or something. And that's one of the main reasons I like her. If you don't, oh well. Maybe one day, when you're sitting next to her on a plan, she'll buy you a drink, and you'll change your tune.

Is Joan a good producer? Darlene Love had a Joan Jett song on her last album that I liked. Darlene deserves another album before she shuffles off this mortal coil.

r479- Yes, I would say she is a good producer. She produced the Germs, she helped produce a few of Bikini Kill's biggest hits, and now, she's working with Wanda Jackson on her new album. I'm sure there are other things she's produced too, but in terms of music, I know that at least.

She's also something of a talent agent, because she's the main one who finds the bands for her label, Blackheart Records. She discovered Girl In A Coma while out in Texas, she found The Vacancies in Cleveland, and she met and took a liking to The Dollyrots while on Warped Tour and agreed to have their music on Blackheart Records too. And even now that they are no longer on her label, Dollyrots still post about Joan and visit her. Another band on her label is very close with her, and they all see her as a very kind, caring person, affectionately referring to her as "the boss lady" often. They say she's one of the best bosses anyone could have- and that's a huge compliment. I take that to heart, because it isn't empty exaggeration- it really means something.

Joan mostly finds the bands on her label, either by them approaching her, or she'll come across them on the road. And they love impressing her- which they really have! Girl in a Coma is now re-formed as Fea, since one of the members went solo. But, back when they were together, they recalled the memory of rehearsing one time, and thinking that they weren't good enough, and they really wanted to impress Joan. So, they took a break and started again. When they were done, they noticed Joan standing there in the distance, with tears in her eyes. She came to them and said something like "Sorry... You all know how emotional I am. But, you girls make me so proud!" It was such a motherly thing to say, so sweet! It's no wonder so many like having her for a boss!

Here's one of Girl in a Coma's best... The music on Joan's label really should be way more well-known than it is- cause it really is great!!

Dusty Springfield -- dykes, she's one of yours yet she's never discussed her despite plenty to gossip about. Do you not like her?

r79- Here's another band that was on Joan's label. Awesome song!

I never realised Joan Jett was a big star. She was just a one hit wonder, copy of Suzi Quattro in the UK as I recall.

Joan Jett was never a big star, R483, but it seems she post on DL...

Over and over again...

To herself...

r483- Well, I guess that's why Suzi Quatro is the big one in the UK and she's bigger in the US.

But, the "one hit wonder cover-girl" thing was only at the beginning. She soon found her own style and sound that is a mix of everything she loves. It didn't take long before she was making more originals than covers, and expanding into other territory as-well. So, I'd say whether her sound is to my taste or not, I have to respect what all she's done, and that she hasn't gotten all egotistical in the process.

r484- You just say all that because you can't stand that someone knows how to set the record straight on a few things.

Ok HelloWorld, I will go and snoop on her, I just remember one record "I love Rack and Roll" and it was a bit of a joke, so well done to her if she got a good career back in the US. Thanks. 463

You're welcome, r487.

I say start with her album Pure and Simple for an all-originals album, and then Sinner and Unvarnished.

And here's a nice video she did in the 1990s of one of her originals that may not have been one of her "big hits" but it's very good.

...And here's one from this century, LOL.

Joon Jett left her wig and three used hypodermic needles in the washroom at a loft party my friend had. She and her dealer had taken over the washroom for WOMEN for over an hour. She came out nearly bald with a scarf around her head and left her soaking wet wig in the sink? Where was she shooting up - in her forehead veins? She left the towels full of blood and 3 used needles in the wastebasket. She can't even get being a junkie right. She sure as hell can't sing or play music. She's a very rudimentary sort. Crude and coarse. That might have been rock n roll back in the 1970s but she doesn't have any talent. This party was about 6 years ago. I wonder if she cleaned up again after that. She had a lot of cosmetic work done. What's an old junkie to do? Give out free CDs if you recognize her!!

r490- You've said almost the EXACT same thing about Pat Benetar, except with the added detail that she kicked over a table at the party and "puked her wig off" in the sink. So, just hush. You're a joke. We all know it.

I've never said a bad thing about Pat Benatar in my life. She has a classically trained voice and I appreciate her talent. She's a bit before my time, but not as far back as the junkie Joan Jett - who I've seen in most unbecoming circumstances. You're a liar R491.

r192- Whatever. If it wasn't you, then it was someone copying your post almost word for word. And I think we know who the real liar is- that would be mister "Joan Jett is completely bald"! See r477 for proof of that lie.

So, do you really expect anyone to believe your whackado story?

Get real!

Ah ha! Found it!!! Here's just one incident that you smeared Pat... See r170 of linked thread. And there's plenty more where that came from, r492.

This was a good thread until Joan Jett arrived.

Joan Jett of all fuckin' people

"Touch My Bum" was a hit song in the UK. From owning half the world to that.

R479 did you see Darlene Love on The Kate? She looked great, but I didn't think she sounded as good as she should. I loved her little story about River Deep Mountain High and Tina Turner. Even I didn't know she was in the background group! She thought she was going to sing that song, but she didn't have the range. If Phil Spector is officially credited as one of the writers, he wasn't. I loved that Darlene asked where is he and where am I? LOL

r495- What'cha whining about?!

At least the Joan Jett discussion has intrigue and has kept your silly old thread alive. So, you should thank her!!

And as for you, r492- here ya go! Please see r37 of linked thread that I just found again.

Funny how you mess up in all your old posts on Joan.

Sometimes, you say Joan shot up and left her wig in your friend's sink, and then at other times, you say YOU woke up with Joan's wig in YOUR sink. And then, at other times, you say she puked her wig off, and it had to be sent home by Uber (good one, LOL). And then, to top it all off, at least once, you said it was Benatar.

You're a real hoot!

Can't even get your own fan-fiction right.

The ONLY thing you were probably NOT lying about is your own drug use (see r37 of linked thread for more about that).

You're welcome, everyone!

r479 and r498- I agree that Darlene Love is a real treasure. She does deserve another album, and hopefully, it will be affiliated with Joan Jett and friends, like the last one was, because that friend circle is the best! The best music she ever did was probably her last album with them.

She has a powerful voice that is soul-touching, but often gets overlooked.

But, when I saw this oldie from 1985, I fell in-love- almost instantly.

She's a powerhouse!

R500, hello HelloWorld! Thanks for that, I'll listen soon. Wanted to reply while you might still be here. Darlene mentioned Joan in her concert at The Kate. She did that song in that performance. Check Youtube for it. Also check your local PBS station. There's a theatre in the Northeast named for Katharine Hepburn nicknamed The Kate. Performers give concerts there, which PBS broadcasts. The gay songwriter who goes by Desmond Child was on there. He's written a lot of kitsch include "Dude Looks Like A Lady" and "Livin' La Vida Loca". Great to hear from you and hope you're well!

r501- Thank you, Gen Xer! Great to hear from you as-well. :-)

I've heard of the Kate and seen one of the PBS televised shows there, but not the Darlene Love one, I don't think. I'll check it out. Thank you so much for telling me about it!

I hope you're well too!

P.S. There was a documentary made on Desmond Child and his partner years ago that Joan took part in. Can't seem to find it anywhere streaming online, but here's a link to its page.

PPS. "Dude LookS like a Lady!" is one of my faves. I'll never forget it in the Mrs. Doubtfire movie, LOL!

[Quote] but she didn't have the range.

Bullshit. Darlene was recruited to sing "River Deep - Mountain High" and other hits in the Ellie Greenwich revue "Leader of the Pack." Darlene went to Broadway with it. Tina got the song because she and Ike were an established chart act. Darlene had also defied Phil by doing "Shindig", a project that had nothing to do with Phil. Moreover, she was releasing records on the Reprise label in 1966, she was no longer on Philles.

R503, that's entirely false. Tina was selected and the song River Deep Mountain High was written with her intended as its singer.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

The article above claims that Phil and Tina spent weeks honing the melody before the recording session, which is laughable. Greenwich & Barry did not need anyone to "develop" their melodies.

R505, thank you. In Tina's autobiography, she recounts how she went to Phil's estate alone, one of the only times Ike permitted her to drive alone. Nobody else was permitted inside. Phil played the song on the piano. They rehearsed privately before they went to the studio. Therefore, the song was prepared specifically for Tina and was ready before studio time was booked. Only after Phil and Tina had rehearsed alone initially did Tina go Gold Star studio to start recording and meet Darlene Love. The published account above matches Tina's autobiography, published in 1986.

R504

No one has claimed that the song was for Darlene Love, merely that Darlene had left the Philles stable as a recording act. Darlene was obviously mistaken if she thought Phil might sit on the song until she could get out of her contract with Reprise.

R508, would you happen to know Darlene Love's official vocal range at her best? I love her to pieces, but her performance at The Kate was under par, but she looked great. She murdered River Deep Mountain High. Tina's range was just under 4 octaves. I doubt Ms. Love ever had that, since I was trained as a piano player and singer. River Deep was written specifically for Tina. Phil Spector arranged that in advance and paid today's equivalent of 6 figures to keep Ike out of California during the sessions.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue. If "River Deep - Mountain High" was tailored to Tina's range, anyone else's range doesn't matter. Are you of the opinion that the song has a particular money note that must be hit, otherwise the it's "not" the song as written, and thus a failure of a performance?

R510, no, other than Darlene couldn't have done it and she's under the wrong impression if she thought she was in the running. In her concert at The Kate, she was asking Phil about it when he began arriving at Gold Star to assemble "the wall of sound". However, he never responded because he already knew that the song was written for Tina. As Tina said in her video documentary, during the private sessions he was taking her range to tailor the song to her.

Indeed, but it's possible to sing "River Deep - Mountain High" without having the same vocal range as Tina Turner. Here's a 78 year old Darlene singing the song in 2019 (from about 3:58). I think she sounds great. YMMV.

R512, that was awful, but better than her terrible performance at The Kate. It's not River Deep as written. A song has specific written notes that the singer must accomplish. Ms. Love cannot do that. I'm not insulting her ability to do her material.

In 2020, Tina will be re-inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. She'll be among only a few artists to have the honor of being inducted twice. I've attached audio of the 1966 original 1966. You can find modern versions of Tina's version. Do not listen to Ike and Tina versions, as they aren't true to the original. One of my favorite is from her 60th birthday concert in London, but it's not her best vocal performance.

[Quote] A song has specific written notes that the singer must accomplish.

Songs are re-arranged all the time. I don't think "River Deep" requires a high C or whatever.

The funny thing about this whole "Only Tina has the ranger, darling" business is that the hit version of the song in the US was by the Supremes, alongside Four Tops (don't salivate, DL!). Tina was shut out.

*range

Tina was about 70 here. ("River Deep" at about 11:44). Tina has more bite and ring to her upper range than Darlene. I think they're both pretty miraculous. I can't think of many 70 somethings with pipes. (And I don't care if they shorten notes or have the background singers carry some of the weight.)

R519, thanks, she was just short of 70 in that performance from her retirement tour. Great African-American and Native American genes, living a "clean" life with no alcohol, no smoking and no drugs and Buddhism/positivity has kept Tina going. I couldn't accept her religion, but I try to remain positive and not be a bitchy queen.

Darlene's Broadway recording of the song, from about 1985. Typical antiseptic 1980s production but Darlene sings the house down, as usual.

R519, that's better, but it's been rearranged and is not like the emotional original. That's part of my point. Ike was mad as a hornet's nest because it was Tina Turner, not Ike and Tina Turner. So he rearranged it and ruined it. In the late 1980s, Tina went back to the original. The song must be done as written. Anybody change something. If it's not the original, it's not worth doing. Please research "New Coke" which came out in 1985 or so and flopped! There's only one original Coca-Cola, one original Kentucky Fried Chicken, and only one original River Deep Mountain High.

Are you on the spectrum?

R521, no and I don't appreciate your comment. Are steak and veal the same thing?

Are apples and oranges? I love Tina's "Edith & the Kingpin" (with Herbie Hancock) but it's not Joni's original and it doesn't need to be.

Darlene Love is a sad part of music history. But in the final analysis she had a loud but unremarkable voice. There was an unpleasant blaring quality to her lead vocals. Tina, Diana, Gladys, Aretha, Patti and Luther got nothing to worry about. Singing back up is where Darlene Love belongs. She's a notorious cunt about it too.

R524 I always liked Patti and Gladys. Never saw the latter in concert. She was a very young thing in an old Doris Day/Rock Hudson movie playing the piano and singing!

R525. This is not one of Gladys Knight's great songs - (and she has plenty of them) but it demonstrates the richness and unusual colors of her voice. Gladys Knight is not a belter or a gospel singer. She sings soulfully, sexily, angrily and joyously. Her voice is like a thunderstorm. It gives off sparks and dark resonant power. The tone is rich and her inflections are signature and flawless. She has just enough rasp and vocal breaks to sound like no other. She's a beautiful performer to witness. Still is.

Gladys Knight still sounding great, looking beautiful and exuding joy at 71.

Linda Ronstadt can't sing any longer. But she's still making herself heard. This from last night.

Where my backup singers at? Darlene - you need a job?

R529 thanks for that! That was classic Patti, child! I've seen her in concert so many times. She literally makes people feel her voice!

I have to say, this debate of Darlene Love vs. Tina Turner puts me in a tough spot, cause how does one choose between two talents like that?

Tina is more the show-girl and I love her dancing. She's an all-around performer with a great voice. Darlene is not that type of performer, but I love her voice too.

If I had to chose all-around talent, Tina wins. But, personal favorite? Darlene wins. I don't know why, except that I just associate her with everything I love: holidays, the beach, Home Alone 2, rock-n-roll, Steve Van Zandt, the swinging 1960s, the fun and playful 1980s, and the forever young (but kind and wise) spirit she and her old friends bring to the now. Plus, I don't know why exactly, the fact that she and Joan Jett are pals makes her especially lovable to me.

I find Tina best in small doses. I tried to get into the "Private Dancer" album when it had its big anniversary a few years back but it was only the title track that hand much replay value for me. I probably heard "What's Love Got to Do With It" too many times before listening to the album.

Darlene did a version of "Ruby Tuesday" with the British Rock Symphony (or something similarly titled) that's worth checking out. A very moving performance.

Darlene's autobiography is really good. It might even give you a new perspective on Miss Warwick.