Pat Benatar is NOT a rocker!

Wait... what?

r1- It's a fact that obviously goes over the heads of many!

Well then Stevie Nicks isn't a rock star either

[quote]If I were to give one woman the title of "queen of rock 'n roll" it would have to be Joan Jett

Come again?

Is this the Joan Jett troll again? It's true though, Pat Benetar most definitely wasn't rock.

[quote]There seems to be this widespread belief in the music world that in the 1980s, Benatar was "the queen of rock 'n roll".

This is where you lost me, op--Pat Benatar was NEVER considered the "queen of rock 'n roll".

r6- Tell that to VH1's BEHIND THE MUSIC.

I thought Pat Benatar was "New Wave" e.g. pop

[quote]Well then Stevie Nicks isn't a rock star either

r3- I agree- she isn't. She's pop, or soft rock, which is hardly rock.

Simmer down OP, just simmer down.

I think Pat herself would agree with you. She started singing pop and standards. Heart, Janis Joplin, maybe Joan Jett...

R4 types black.

If you're going to call someone the queen or king of Rock & Roll, maybe they should at least be able to play guitar??

Sister Rosetta Tharpe was the Queen of Rock.

Pat Benatar won the Grammy for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance four years in a row. Probably one of the factors that she gets heralded as one of the queens of rock.

The OP is the totally insane Joan Jett troll. Ignore the poor thing.

R14, she was the godmother of rock. Or something.

r16 What we should ignore is anyone throwing around the word "troll" to marginalize someone else. Let people be. No need to insult.

I do think her first three albums are rock. I think she moved towards pop with Get Nervous in '82, followed by Love is a Battlefield in '83 and the Tropico album in '84.

Pat Benatar has a highly trained, professional voice which helped her break into the music world. She choose to sing rockish songs with her lovely voice so yeah, she's a rock singer whether you like it or not and won some important awards.

Don't compare her to Joan Jett or use the latter as a measuring stick. They're all unique in their own way.

[quote]Don't compare her to Joan Jett or use the latter as a measuring stick. They're all unique in their own way.

r20 I agree that they're all unique in their own way. But, just to clarify, I only compared her to Joan Jett in the sense that they both are often labeled the same way- as "the queen of rock" or some such thing. So, I wanted to state what I felt was a fallacy, because I don't consider Benatar rock. And, to prove my point, I contrasted her with Joan, who I feel is the essence of rock. That's all. And yeah, it gave be a chance to brag on my girl a little too, so win-win for me.

If Joan Jett is the queen of rock than so is Suzi Quatro - NOT!

Pat Benetar won the Grammy for Best Female Rock Vocalist FOUR YEARS IN A ROW!

Pat Bentar, Stevie nick..... who cares. They all suck. Not a decent musician among them.

Brenda Lee!

I'm too precious. Fuck off!

The QueenS Of Rock and Roll were Connee, Martha, and Vet.

R25 Brenda Lee was nicknamed Little Miss Dynamite.

What about Tina Turner?

r22- You don't get it, do you? As I said before- being a true queen of rock is not JUST about the music. It's an essence, it's a lifestyle, it's a mind-set. So, no, much as I adore Suzi Quatro too, she is not the queen of rock. I agree with you there. BUT! Joan is. Wanna know how? Well, cause she doesn't just talk the talk, she walks the walk. Her whole life's philosophy is in some way about rock. Can Suzi say that? No. Can any of the other women mentioned in this thread say that? I doubt it.

Joan has said that she considers rock n' roll as a kind of religion. The woman is deep and hard-core about it. So, regardless of the competition, THAT makes Joan Jett the queen. She loves it with her whole being. That's the difference. The other's just can't measure up to Joan's level of devotion to it. It's just the truth.

OP is a freak troll.

[quote] THAT makes Joan Jett the queen.

Pat Benetar - 4 Grammys for Best Female Rock Vocalist

Joan Jett - ZERO Grammys

So is the Queen of Rock?

One wonders what the fuck the OP knows about "living like a rock star."

But then one wonders why the OP insists on drawing breath, And I'm not even fond of the admittedly gifted rocker, Miss Benatar.

R31- buzz off. The only troll here is you, killjoy.

There's onry one Queen of lock.

Being a true rocker is not about winning commercial awards, r32!

OP seems over-invested into unimportant minutia.

R37- What did they call you in school, class squealer?!

This an easy one . . . HOW many of these does Joan have?

Her husband Neil was hot as a young man.

r39- again, commercial fluff. Joan doesn't need the cover of that mag. Being a rocker is partly about NOT needing the bells and whistles. Joan doesn't need it.

...and Joan doesn't need a man either- except to maybe play with once in a while!

No one man is named the king of rock and roll. So let's not feel obliged to name one woman the queen of rock and roll. Joan and Pat both had their day. Finito!

Pat: $32M; Joan: $7M

r44- Well, ya know what? That makes Joan even more of a rocker still, cause she's less about the money, more about the life. Get with it, babe. Joan wins this match!

R32, if you knew anything about actual ROCK AND ROLL, you would know that the fucking pussy-ass, retarded GRAMMYS don't mean a god damn thing.

Christ, some of you mainstream people are so clueless.

There is nothing "rock and roll" about the Grammys, so why the hell would anyone who actually knows anything about rock and roll use them as some kind of measurement for who or what is greatest in the genre (with all its sub-genres)?

r46- So my girl tries to keep herself fresh and sexy. Nothing wrong with that!

I read that Joan Jett, Lita Ford, Cherie Currie, etc all WATCHED while one of their band mates was RAPED while high on drugs someone slipped her. Joan WATCHED.

That still doesn't make Pat Benatar the Queen of rock and roll, R49.

"Joan has said that she considers rock n' roll as a kind of religion. The woman is deep and hard-core about it. So, regardless of the competition, THAT makes Joan Jett the queen. She loves it with her whole being. That's the difference. The other's just can't measure up to Joan's level of devotion to it. It's just the truth."

You're insane and retarded. And THAT is "Just the truth."

Never got into Pat Benatar - liked Joan Jett better. And the fact she did a version of Crimson and Clover and didn't change the gender pronouns.

R51- Read it and weep, pal!

I admit I may have missed it 'cuz I don't usually enter these flamethrower types of threads...but we now have a [italic]Joanbot[/italic] on DL???

Joan Jett considers "rock and roll" a "religion?" Boy, that is retarded.

r55- No, it's not. It just shows that she's a deeper thinker than you.

[quote]we now have a Joanbot on DL???

r54- It's so amusing how any true fan of anyone that comes on the scene is so readily labeled a "bot". Seriously, like the powers that be would go through the trouble it would take to make one! Yeah, right! Give it up, boys. Joan's got this!

"No, it's not. It just shows that she's a deeper thinker than you.'

Joan Jett, a "deep thinker?" You're retarded.

r56- I'll see your one-note post and raise you a rockin' good time with Joanie! Can YOUR girl do this? Um, no.

The Joan-bot troll started a thread about Pat Benatar...in order to talk about Joan Jett! That is one desperate troll.

r61 What a mindless creature you must be, because all you can seem to do is repeat yourself, call others "troll" and crash the party. I feel sorry for ya, bub.

But, does Pat love music so much, she'd make out with it? Cause Joanie does! Observe, fools- guitar porn by Joan Jett!

The early stuff was rock, by Get Nervous it was trending pop. Sorry that doesn't make Joan Jett the queen of Rock and roll. That would be Lita Ford

No, r65. I like Lita. But, for many years, she was a domestic, and a kept woman, under the control of a husband who made her miserable. So, she lost some rocker creds for that. As Joan says, rock is about freedom. It's about having fun. Lita was not free nor having fun. Joan knows what's up, and that's why she's the rocker queen.

OP, I bet it Joan herself saw this, she would tell you to get some hobbies, your interest is creepy

Look who's talkin', r67; your obsession with my threads is creepy. Go find a new haunt if this bugs you so bad.

Was Pat ever THIS cool? And yeah, show me a cuter painted-back rocker, and I'll show you a clone!

Pat Benatar show . . .

Joan Jett show . . .

Bill Cosby votes for Joan Jett.

R68 I just looked cause you put Benatar in the title. Trust me I'm not obsessed with your fandom at all.

r70- Liar! That's a Taylor Swift show. Nice try though. Meanwhile, my baby's too busy rockin' out to be bothered with keeping score. She's played barns, nearby nursing homes, does free shows, state fair shows... whatever---like a true music lover would!

I shot my mouth off and you showed me what that hole was for

r75- Good. Glad I could be of service. And remember, Joan loves you!

I vote for Tina.

Joan Jett can't sing. Any kind of music. She isn't a singer or vocalist. That and lots of drugs used to make you a rocker.

Pat Benatar was a highly trained and gifted singer, as was Linda Ronstadt. They sang the kind of songs that won grammy awards for "best female rock vocal". Not rockers.

Tina and Janis and you're getting closer because they sang the blues. Rock is the blues.

Stevie is a wonderland fairy prince's princess. She is a goddess, sister of the moon, a gypsy, a muse, a dark shawl of unknowingness, a hole in the septum of the musical stratosphere, a silver spring, a gold dust woman, a white winged dove, a thunder in the heart, a sea of love where everyone would love to drown, a Landslide.

r78- Whatever, dude. But, are they rockers in spirit? That's what Joan is. And as an extra bonus, she'll even sign your underwear! Show me where any of those other ladies you mentioned are so devoted!

Pat Benatar's tour bus . . .

Joan Jett's tour bus . . .

Joan Jett's bedroom:

Pat's bedroom

Pat Benatar's house . . .

To the unfortunate soul who talks like Joan has never sang, what do you call this then- lamaze?!

Joan Jett's house . . .

Joan Jett's rocker bike:

Pat's current bedroom (Neil has a "blue" one)

Pat Benatar's rocker bike:

I certainly remember Benatar being labeled "rock" at times, but I never ever remember her being dubbed the "Queen of Rock". Her music hasn't aged well or me, though there's a few songs I still like.

I hear Joan, raise you Chrissie.

I think I have something to say about this -

r91/r92 - eh. She looks so much like Joan, it's not much of a "raise" is it? They could almost pass for twins in some instances! But, Joan sounds more rocker-ish; I think I really like JJ's voice better.

R91 here. Love both, have seen JJ 3x always have fun. Matter of taste. Seen Chrissie not once, but sing her songs after all these years. Not so much JJ songs. Janis J kicks both their R&R lifestyle asses, though CH may give a run for the $

Yeah, well...

r95- You've seen Joan thrice (my inner Rose Nylund made me use that word)! Whoa! That's so cool. Have you ever gotten the chance to meet her too?

As for Chrissie Hynde, ever notice how Joan and her dress almost identical at times? I wonder if they themselves have ever noticed their similarities in style?

Looks like this debate has made its way to another DL thread, Ha Ha! (See the post toward the bottom of the thread.)

r98- yeah, thanks for the heads up opportunity to vouch for my girl. Much appreciated.

Grace Slick

R97 No, though I'd like too. Sure they may notice a similar penchant for black, but Chrissie is vegan and a PETA supporter, no leather on her. Also I submit...

r97- Joan is a vegetarian, very close to vegan too. And as far as I know, she only wears pleather or latex now, not real leather.

Joan is made of pleather. She looks so o l d. Terrible singer, no relevance to anyone.

r103- say what you will, but chicks dig her, so she's got the moves, man!

...and

...more proof that she's catnip to the ladies!

...and a lip-lock makes it complete!

. . . and another cover . . .

No idea who those chicks are at R103 and R104. Joan Jett fan, you don't need to keep proving her worthiness to these cunts. Datalounge knows nothing about rock and roll.

Even the odd ones out here who love rock and roll have mediocre tastes.

.......

I've posted this on another thread that I'm in the business and I've had to work with Pat on several occasions. She's so difficult. Never pleasant. Her husband is easy to work with.

I also have met Join and Lita years ago. Joan was gross and poluted and Lita is just a loudmouth whore.

[quote]Joan was gross and poluted

r117- I know you say you've posted this on several occasions, but honestly, it's news to me. Most everyone I've read about meeting Joan describe her in good terms. So, would you please elaborate on what you mean when you say she was "gross and polluted"? What did she actually do to give you that impression?

I posted about Pat in another thread before, not Joan. I was in a business meeting with her and her manager. She stunk of booze with jacked up eyes. It was my office, so I excused them.

Joan Jett is a one hit wonder. And don't you dare start listing songs no one ever heard of but you because you're a fan.

[quote] No one man is named the king of rock and roll.

You ain't nothin' but a hound dog.

[quote]I thought Pat Benatar was "New Wave" e.g. pop

WHAT? Stop thinking that.

[quote]I posted about Pat in another thread before, not Joan. I was in a business meeting with her and her manager. She stunk of booze with jacked up eyes. It was my office, so I excused them.

r119- Well, that's certainly unfortunate. As a Joan fan, I am all too aware that she's not perfect, but I forgive her because I sense a good person there. Maybe she doesn't always make the right decisions, but we all have our own demons to deal with.

That said, I must say I'm very disappointed in this tidbit, because her manager had spoken about how wild a drinker Joan was when they first met in the late 1970s, and that she suddenly just quit the party-girl routine, sobered up, and became a level-headed young woman with her mind on success. But, your tidbit makes me think she had a relapse. It's bad enough that she's a regular weed taker, so combine the two, and I'm sure it's not pretty. Sadly though, many people don't see weed for the drug that it really is to a lot of folks- like Joan.

I wonder why Joan's manager allows her to screw up like that? Unless he's an enabler, he should be looking out for her best interest- which doesn't include showing up to places stoned and drunk- especially not business meetings! I have such second-hand shame, just thinking about it.

Just out of curiosity, when did that meeting take place? And, how did they react when you dismissed them?

As mentioned before, Joan did greatly improve her reputation greatly since the 1970s and seems to be generally liked and respected by people, so it's hard to know what to make of this.

[quote]Joan Jett is a one hit wonder. And don't you dare start listing songs no one ever heard of but you because you're a fan.

r120- Oh, PUH-LEASE! She's AT LEAST a 2-hit wonder. But, besides that, you know what? Some of the best music is lesser-known, like Suzi Quatro, for example, who I also like better than Pat Benatar. Quality of music and rocker should not be meatured by so-called "hits" but in the way the songs make people feel, and the way the singers themselves make an impact.

I can tell you that Joan's music makes me feel in a way that those big hits of Pat's never could. And Joan herself has had a major impact on me.

It's not about the hits, it's about everything else.

R123 The meeting was several years ago. I haven't seen her since. I've seen A LOT of jacked up artists. Managers can't control artists.

Many years ago, I saw Bobby and Whitney literally stumble into the American Music Awards. I never thought she'd get clean. She didn't.

r125- But, how did her manager react to the dismissal though? Did they get angry, or were they cool about it? Was her manager screwed up too, or just Joan?

Chrissie is more rock than Joan or Pat. As someone above quoted, "I shot my mouth off and he showed me what that hole was for", as Exhibit A.

Paraphrasing here, but Exhibit B: "For every act of sodomy I committed on the road, I have a gold record".

Exhibit C: "You asked me for advice, I said use the door." I could go on and on.

In short, none of this Shadows of the Night, Crimson and Clover shit.

Chrissie Hynde used to wear leather pants during the earlier days of the Pretenders when Pete Farndon and James Honeyman-Scott were alive. Then when they died of drug overdoses. She changed her dressing style and by then she became a mother.

R126 Managers let everything slide off their backs. It wasn't a big deal.

So many distaff rockers..

Siouxsie Sioux, Ellen Foley, Marshall Chapman, Ellen Shipley, Robin Lane, Danielle Dax...all of them more interesting than Jett or Benatar.

Some good points made, though-Benatar's first three albums rocked pretty hard, and yes, who gives a sh*t about Grammy wins? Phhtt!

Disco meets Lynyrd Skynyrd, hehe. No wonder CBS didn't know what to do with Chapman.

We need a Helen Reddybot, or a Toni Tenillebot.

r130- I'd like to thank you for introducing this thread to Marshall Chapman, because I find her a delightful performer, very reminiscent of Vanessa Redgrave, if Vanessa Redgrave were to become an American Southern singer. I enjoyed her very much. Especially this video..

But I have to disagree with your conclusion that your list of rockers – or singers rather – are more interesting than Joan Jett (or even Pat Benatar). The fact is, most of the people you listed wouldn't even be known to anyone outside of music aficionados. I had to look them up. I had never even heard of them. But in looking them up, there's one thing I did notice – there's hardly any information on them. And what little I did see, one thing was clear – it's not for nothing that they aren't so well known, because they lack the rock and roll presence. It's not a slight on them, it's just a different persona. They don't want to be loud and ballsy rock and rollers.

To me, most of the people you listed came across as karaoke acts who happens to write their own songs. Music seems more a hobby to them than a life. In fact, in the case of Marshall Chapman, music is but one facet of what she does. She has a whole other life as a novelist, a columnist, etc. One of the other singers you listed got out of the business in the 90s. She's now living in obscurity in England, getting her fine arts degree. Another one you listed specializes in writing songs for other people. None of this makes them more interesting than Joan Jett (or Pat Benatar). It just makes them very different. Therefore, I can't say that they are better rock and rollers than Joan Jett or Pat Benatar, because they are nothing like Joan Jett or Pat Benatar.

Part of the reasons why the singers you listed aren't more popular is because of something I like to call "mystique" – they have none of that. Another reason is longevity. A couple of them you listed got out of the business early. And if you want to cite Janis Joplin as not having longevity, because of an early death, that's true – but then again, when somebody does have an early death like that, they are automatically laden with the quality of "mystique". So, it works to the advantage of her legacy. However, the people you listed come across as average Joe's. Again, it's not a slight on them, it's just the reality. The star quality isn't there. It takes that sort of star quality to be what is called a rock 'n roll star.

Getting back to Marshall Chapman for a minute, I have to say that the reason CBS didn't know what to do with her is probably because she's not exactly rock 'n roll, nor is she exactly country, nor exactly folk. She's a mishmash of it all, a true singer-songwriter very much in the Joni Mitchell tradition . And that's fine, but it won't get you the title of rock 'n roll star. To be a rock 'n roll star, a person has to be purely rock 'n roll – in one way or another, whether in looks, style, or music. She's none of those things. If I saw her on the street, my mind wouldn't automatically go to rock 'n roll.

And that brings me to Joan Jett – she's the queen of rock 'n roll in my estimation, because she's the antithesis of everything I've spoken about so far that those other people have. She has no ambiguity.. She's very clear, a straight shooter in the business when it comes to what she represents.. And, as a bonus, she also has the rock and rollers charisma and mystique. This makes her a star, whether she's well known for one song or all her songs, she's still well-known – still a star. I don't think any of us can argue with that. And if she wasn't so darn interesting, I certainly wouldn't be talking about her in this thread!

[quote]Joan Jett is a one hit wonder. And don't you dare start listing songs no one ever heard of but you because you're a fan.

This “One-hit wonder” moniker is ridiculous and slightly immature. It implies that the artist was only good enough to have one “Radio hit.” I can’t imagine basing what I listen to on what’s considered a hit song. That’s pretty square. And limiting.

i'm sitting here half naked, eating a dill pickle. crunch, crunch, sooo good!

I eat Joan Jett's defection and lezzie pussy cheese.

I know Joan wouldn't like to be singled out as "Lady Rocker"– she just wants to be known as a rocker. But, Joan, if you're reading this – the truth is that the world is divided up into ways: those of us who are men, and those of us who are women. And men and women are very different from each other(If we weren't, they wouldn't be different sexualities preferring one over the other). I think about you in terms of greatest female rocker, because Men and women are so different, it would be unfair to pick one person and just call them the "greatest rocker" – because there's no comparison between men and women, that's how different they are. Women sound different, they look different.. Men sound different too, and they also look different from women.

Therefore, if I call you the best "Lady Rocker" please don't be offended or think that I'm not giving you the credit you deserve is a Rocker in general. I would do the same for a male Rocker. And I think we all should, if we're honest with ourselves – because there's really no fair way to compare the two. They appeal to different audiences. Maybe not always, but the majority of us do enjoy hearing one over the other. I happen to prefer the female voice. So, most of what I listen to are female singers. And I do think you are the best female rocker!

r129- That's good to know. I'm glad it wasn't a big deal. I know you said Lita Ford was difficult to deal with (not on good behavior I imagine). But the way you describe Joan, it sounds like it had nothing to do with her personality and more to do with the mistake she made before coming into your office (drinking). As a fan of hers, it does bother me, because I care about her and don't want her to come across in a way that makes other people, such as yourself, have a low opinion of her. I wish there was a way that we could go back in time and change your encounter with her somehow, to something positive. But really, most of the time, she does tend to make a good impression on people. You must've caught her on a really bad day.

I hope to heaven that she isn't a victim of substance abuse anymore though. I have my suspicions that she might be, and that she tends to keep it pretty well under wraps, but that she does more than she lets on. In the rock 'n roll world though, I would say she's done pretty well to make it this far, almost 60, still alive, still rocking out. So, she's not such a bad egg, hey?

[quote]Chrissie [Hynde] is more rock than Joan or Pat. As someone above quoted, "I shot my mouth off and he showed me what that hole was for", as Exhibit A.

r127- In a way, I agree with you. But if we were to crown the queen of rock 'n roll the same way we crown the Queen in a different province or country, then Chrissie wouldn't qualify, because she's pretty much adopted the UK is her home. Assuming that most of us here are living in America, Joan Jett would be our Queen, because she's very American, very patriotic. Not only that, but she has rock 'n roll spirit of bravery, often going into the combat zones to put on shows for the veterans and the soldiers. In fact, her band was the first to play in certain regions, the first to do so after the war in Iraq, if I'm not mistaken. She's been in Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, etc. Part of it is that she's a real road warrior and likes to travel, but another part of it is a genuine support for the troops. She's even done small local events for the soldiers and veterans.

Yes, there are many rockers who support the troops. In fact, patriotism in general seems to be much more commonplace for country music stars and rockers than it is for anybody else in entertainment.. I'm not sure why that is, but yes – rock 'n roll and country seems to have a monopoly on patriotism in the public eye. And as far as that goes, there are plenty of patriots in the rock and country genres, but I doubt if any of them have performed for the troops as much as Joan (and her band) did or as early as Joan did, in recent years.

......

Tina Turner is a rock star who did not live like a rock star (when she was separated from Ike Turner).

As she said in her excellent memoir "Simple Dreams", Linda Ronstadt was often referred to as Queen of Rock. But she didn't think she was, she thinks Chrissie Hynde fits the title. Linda hated the title because she considers herself a singer first.

Oh my GOD can you people please stop talking about people who can't even play guitar as rockers, let alone QUEENS of rock? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Also, thank you R133 for pointing out the bullshit about "one-hit wonders". That numbers/ranking/popularity fixation that afflicts so many Dataloungers is so immature and sad and does not speak well of us. Then again, there's nothing particularly special about DLers anymore—as a whole, we are utterly average nowadays, just like the general population, so it's no surprise. (Exhibit A: JanBot, and the obsession with Billboard rankings. Blah.)

Just read this on reddit:

"She played a free outdoor concert in Albany, and ofcourse I was center stage right in front of her. really drunk. and to impress my wife, every time it got quiet I yelled "I love you PAT BENETAR!!!" Poor Joan Jett. If your reading this, I'm sorry!"

OMG, so rude, but so LOL funny!!

r142- If Joan Jett doesn't qualify as a queen of rock, nobody does!

R144, I wasn't talking about Joan Jett. She's a contender for sure. (I'm not necessarily a fan, but I totally get that there's a case to be made for her.)

I'm glad you get it, r145. Thank you!

Somebody on this thread mentioned Grace Slick. Yeah, she's a talent alright! I really like her vocals. But, she also had tremendous stage presence and a very theatrical delivery. Was just watching this video of hers and couldn't get over what a Glenn Close vibe she gives off! I'll bet she'd have made a great actress- giving Glenn a run for the money!

Pat Bent Guitar was never a rocker. A friend attended high school with Pat, she always wanted to be a Broadway star.

Pat's goal was much different than what she ended up doing. Pat went where the money was.

...So yeah, I'm a BIG Grace Slick fan- but for different reasons. She's still not quite as Rock n' Roll as Joan Jett.

Joan Jett is just a lesbian poseur. She can't even party right. Terrible singer, zero musicianship, chick who got lucky a hundred years ago. She's pumped full of tox and fillers now. She's a loser. Long before my time.

r148- Can't say I'm surprised. Pat seems very disconnected and unconcerned with music. It's not a part of her essence, the way it is with Joan Jett, or even Grace Slick. Plus, I don't find her that interesting. Everything came so easy for her. No compelling drama or struggle in her story. And, to me, a star has to be interesting to be star. Otherwise, they are just a public figure, no different than a bland politician.

r150- Huh? What in blazes do you mean she can't even party right?! What, you've partied with her?! Or are you implying that because she didn't die from drugs like many rockers, that it must mean she can't party right? What an odd statement!

...as for the rest of what you said, r150, I got nothing to say to that except you sound like a jerk. So, for your own good, you may want to follow the golden rule that states that if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

She poops out at parties I can tell you. Jett has that wet brain wernicke's syndrome + old coke head way of talkin. She's hard to understand with all those ataxic features. Thinks she's friendly but just mumbles on about shit that's on what is left of her mind. Then she passes out just when things are coming alive. She must be close to 70 right? Poor old dear. Some call her Jukebox Jane. She had that one song that was a hit?

r154- Okay, it's clear now; you just make crap up and like to agitate.

[quote]Thinks she's friendly but just mumbles on about shit that's on what is left of her mind. Then she passes out just when things are coming alive.

....And, there's no way you would know that unless you've partied with her, which I seriously doubt you have.

Joan is fabulous, don't listen to the asshole here who is just trying to stir up shit. Join was close with a friend who was in the original off Broadway version of "Hedwig", my friend is a guitarist.

Joan might not have the best voice, but no one can ever say Joan isn't a rocker!

R148 says it all about Benatar.

r157- Cool! Thanks for sharing! It's so nice that your friend and Joan became close. I envy that. :-)

Do you have any neat Joan stories you can pass on to us from when your friend and her were close?

Pat was pop/rock.

r110 - r115: Here's a great Joan mag cover to go with all those Benatar ones...

.....

.....

......

......And now we're even, r110 / r111/ r112 / r113/ r114/ r115 (^_~)

And here's another fab cover, for good measure:

Check out this sweet video. And guess who's #1? Yeah... And the lovely Debbie Harry comes in at a very respectable 2. I love them both!

What a ridiculous and false premise. In what sense is "Hell is for Children" a pop song?

r168- Huh? Are you referring to the video at r167?

Pat puked her wig off at my friends last party. She was a fuckin mess. She's almost completely bald!! Snatched I guess.

r170- You must be the same person who posted the inane r150/r154 comments. I'd like to believe that you're just sharing an antidote, but they sound far too similar.

Lovemongers

This is one of the dumbest threads ever to appear on Datalounge.

r173- No, it's not. But, yours has to be the dumbest comment.

Wikipedia says she is: Rock, Hard Rock, and Pop Rock. Thread closed.

r175- Wikipedia is not a reliable source as it is user-controlled and altered. Thread open.

R176 Most people turn to Wikipedia to get basic info about shit. She is some variation of Rock so just fuck off with your OCD.

r177- But, is she the "queen of rock"? If you paid attention, you would know that it was that phase which sparked this thread and the questions therein. So, why don't YOU f-off with your intellectual laziness and try to keep up!

Oh you fucking queens and your bullshit titles. Do they actually MEAN anything in the real world? MJ coined the term King of Pop for himself and clearly he was not. The guy had a few pop hits but if you listen to most of them today they are crap. So who gives a fuck about these false titles, dumbfuck.

r179- Eww, somebody's mad! Do yourself a favor and go sit on a snow-cone!

Don't bore us w your semantics over whether Benatar is Rock. She is. She is not the queen of rock. There is no legit queen of rock.

PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES, PAT BENATAR RULES!

Of course she's rock. Listen to her 'Best Shots'. She had a few ballads too, but every rocker in the 80s did *shrug*. Enough years have gone by she's probably been 'un-rock' longer than she's been rock, but eh, that's not her legacy, what people know her for.

r181- Benatar may have done some rock songs, but that doesn't make her a rock-star anymore than Miley Cyrus singing folk with Melanie makes her a folk singer, or Lady Gaga doing some opera makes her an opera star. You don't get it, do you? ANYONE can have a few songs in this or that genre, but it takes more than that to be part of a genre. It's about persona, life-style, fashion, ALL OF IT. You have to consider all of it.

Elvis would not be considered "KING OF ROCK" if he looked. lived, and acted like Ernest P. Worrell, for example- even if he had the songs and the skill. In other words, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

So, has Benatar made some rock? Yes. Is she a rock star? No.

And if someone can be widely recognized as the king of rock, then there can be the same for a woman too. And by that measure, Joan Jett is THE QUEEN OF ROCK!

R184 Fuck off asshole. She had a few hits in 1980 and 1981. She has been a has-been ever since. So no fucker, she is not a rock star. She had a few hits and that is all.

r185- Listen here, you vulgarian: The only thing that you're proving with your comments is that you still don't understand the whole concept of being a rock-star! So, you might ought to bow out now. before your ignorance becomes any more obvious. Tootle-loo, lolly-pop!

[quote][R157]- Cool! Thanks for sharing! It's so nice that your friend and Joan became close. I envy that. :-) Do you have any neat Joan stories you can pass on to us from when your friend and her were close?

My friend said Joan was cool to hang with, but they had a falling out over Joan's drinking. My friend is a recovering alcoholic, they really couldn't be around heavy drinkers. I have no idea if Joan has stopped drinking, but she was really messed up when they knew each other.

I haven't seen this friend in many years, the last time we spoke, they were about to leave the US, they were touring Europe with some band and after the tour, were set to do session work in the UK.

[quote]My friend said Joan was cool to hang with, but they had a falling out over Joan's drinking. My friend is a recovering alcoholic, they really couldn't be around heavy drinkers. I have no idea if Joan has stopped drinking, but she was really messed up when they knew each other.

r187 Thank you for sharing that. Much appreciated.

May I ask what year it was that your friend and Joan knew each-other?

It sounds like Joan had a relapse. Because in the early 80s, she had quite her heavy drinking. So, depending on what year this was that your friend knew her, she either relapsed or was not yet sober to begin with. I hate it, but Joan may be one who is in denial of her own problem too. Cause in interviews from as recently as like 4 years ago, she says she stays away from alcohol, except on occasion and that she doesn't drink to excess. But, multiple comments from people seem to contradict that statement. It's sad, cause she can't recover if she isn't willing to admit her own problem to herself.

All this makes me wonder about her drug use too. Drugs are not uncommon to rockers, and Joan was a light user in the 1970s, far as I know. But, she never got as heavy with her substance abuse as say, Debbie Harry. And again, in her later interviews, she says that because of what she saw, she stays away from drugs. But, does she really, or is she in denial about that as-well? Are you aware of her doing any drugs? I know she does pot, but any others? Some people have made snide remarks that her gravely voice suggests she's a coke user- and I really hope that's not true!

Well, if there's one thing to be said about her problems- she handles them pretty well, considering. With the grind of her tour schedule, she doesn't even have time for rehab if she wanted to. And I suppose the fact that she can handle such a schedule is a testament to her competence in some way. Yet, I really want her to get clean. Hey, if her pal, Miley Cyrus, can quit pot at least, so can Joan! And I want her to. I'm not saying it's bad per say, but I get the impression that she's come to rely on it too much, and that's not good. So when I say I want her clean, I don't mean she has to give it up cold turkey, but she needs an intervention of some kind to restore her balance, so that she sets real boundaries for herself and her poisons of choice.

It's funny- when I hear Joan talk, I get a real sense of maturity and wisdom from her. But then, some of her styles and some of her actions send another message. I love to listen to her speak though, like on the radio or even in interviews. She has a very thoughtful, fair, understanding side to her nature that impresses me a lot. It doesn't really come across by just looking at her though- ya have to hear her. Yeah, I'd never thought I'd say this about anyone, but with Joan, her looks aren't the best thing to me. It's something else about her that I like, which I can't quite put my finger on... that, and the fact that she has great taste in music!

"No, it's not. But, yours has to be the dumbest comment."

It is one of the dumbest. And you are one of the dumbest trolls ever to appear on Datalounge. No, make that THE dumbest, you poor dumb twat.

The Reigning QUEEN OF ROCK AND ROLL!

Forever and ALWAYS!

Stevie Nicks. Yuck. Musical vomit. Fuck off Janbot.

R188, my friend knew Joan during her success with her own band The Blackhearts and also while the friend was working off Broadway in Hedwig", I really don't know when that was. We are talking over 25+ years ago.

As I mentioned, I haven't seen this friend in many years, they went on tour as a backing guitarist and were doing session work in the UK. They were close friends with another friend, so he might know what they're up to. This friend also moved around a lot, the city, Queens, Brooklyn, then back to Queens.

I have no idea where they are now. They were so dedicated to their music, they weren't much on hanging out. They were always hustling for work.

Sorry I don't have much gossip.

r190 Stevie Nick's talent with lyrics can't be denied. She's a human quill, guided by a kind of magic! But, I wouldn't consider her true rock 'n roll. She's about as rock 'n roll as Karen Carpenter – that is, not very.

Yes, the band she was a part of and sometimes is a part of, is considered a rock 'n roll band. Though most classified as soft rock or easy listening. Not quite the same as Bush what he rock 'n roll and thinking of. Not quite the same as the rock 'n roll people think of when they think of rock 'n roll. We don't think of the softer sounds of LANDSLIDE, for example.

On another note, she's not very rock 'n roll in her handling of fans. Not that she's bad to them exactly, but she doesn't seem to revel in them, like a rock and roller should. For example, from what I gather, she doesn't sign many autographs, and when she does sign autographs, it's usually for prearranged signing session – not a spur of the moment thing when her fans want her to. And sometimes, her fans will write to her for an autograph, and they won't get a response except in the form of a formal letter from a secretary, declaring that she no longer sends out autographs (because of eBay and such). Some people might agree with that reasoning, but then when you have somebody like Joan Jett, who is so generous with her signing and doesn't care how many autographs she has to sign typically, it then seems like Stevie is just being difficult.

r192 - Well, it sounds like you've known some really interesting people in your life! It was a chore to read your posts. I'm sorry you and your friend are no longer in contact, but from what you describe, he must be quite a success now. I imagine he's quite like Joan, driven by the music – have good talk, will travel – in other words. Chrissie Hynde is also like that, which is how come she ended up settling in the UK. She says that she never wants to really settled down in, she always wants to move from place to place every few months. I don't know how they do it, those rockers. It must be part of the rock 'n roll spirit.

So, your friend never told you that Joan did drugs, did he? I'm sorry, I know that you say you don't have much gossip to tell. But, I just thought I'd ask again, because when people keep saying that Joan might be on Coke or whatever kind of drug, I keep thinking to myself – if she's a drug addict, then she's the best on drug addict I've ever seen – since you never hear about her doing crazy things at her shows, you never hear about her being dragged out of public places, you never hear about her having to go into rehab, etc. I mean, I suppose she could be a drug addict, and maybe she's just a highly functioning one. But, with her grueling tour schedule, I don't see how she would manage it. That being said, I hope she's not doing any, but from what I'm finding out with other rock and rollers and stuff, it does make me wonder…

Anyhow, I really appreciate your posts! Thanks again :-)

^^ "It was a chore to read your posts" was supposed to read "It was a joy to read your posts." That's what I get for using dictation software, and getting in a hurry. Ugh! Sorry. So embarrassing! Please forgive errors.

[quote]So, your friend never told you that Joan did drugs, did he? I'm sorry, I know that you say you don't have much gossip to tell. But, I just thought I'd ask again, because when people keep saying that Joan might be on Coke or whatever kind of drug, I keep thinking to myself – if she's a drug addict, then she's the best on drug addict I've ever seen – since you never hear about her doing crazy things at her shows, you never hear about her being dragged out of public places, you never hear about her having to go into rehab, etc. I mean, I suppose she could be a drug addict, and maybe she's just a highly functioning one. But, with her grueling tour schedule, I don't see how she would manage it. That being said, I hope she's not doing any, but from what I'm finding out with other rock and rollers and stuff, it does make me wonder… Anyhow, I really appreciate your posts! Thanks again :-)

It's assumed Joan did some type of drugs, but my friend was annoyed by the drinking, as he was in recovery. He mentioned that, but he was more about the music. Joan must have done some drugs, after all, she was in a band since she was quite young, in The Runaways, the band she was in with Cherie Curry.

[quote]Stevie Nick's talent with lyrics can't be denied. She's a human quill, guided by a kind of magic! But, I wouldn't consider her true rock 'n roll. She's about as rock 'n roll as Karen Carpenter – that is, not very. Yes, the band she was a part of and sometimes is a part of, is considered a rock 'n roll band. Though most classified as soft rock or easy listening. Not quite the same as Bush what he rock 'n roll and thinking of. Not quite the same as the rock 'n roll people think of when they think of rock 'n roll. We don't think of the softer sounds of LANDSLIDE, for example.

I never got Stevie's appeal, especially being around so many real rock and roll musicians. I can tell the difference between a rocker and a pop singer.

The original Fleetwood Mac were a British blues band, led by Peter Green, her was their lead guitarist and was also the main singer. Later versions of Fleetwood, with Jermey Spencer and John Welch, had other members singing too. Peter who "Black Magic Woman", which was hit for Santana.

I always wished when John McVie, Mick Fleetwood and Christine McVie re-formed the band with Lindsey and Steve, they would have simply changed the band's name. Christine wasn't even in the original Fleetwood, she had her own band, Chicken Shack. I've never understood why Fleetwood didn't change their name, especially as the original Brit Fleetwood Mac were never really big in the US, they had a small following. It's not as if they were keeping the name as some sort of name recognition. Most of the fans of the original band, did not like the new version at all.

I've never enjoyed Stevie's nasally warbling. I think her popularity is another case of style-over-substance, her fans were into the mythology of her supposedly being a witch, her style of clothing and all that crap. Musically, the US version of Fleetwood were great, but Stevie wasn't exactly a great singer and I would never consider her a rock'n'roll singer, not at all. Janis Joplin was a raw rocker, not Stevie.

This auto correct really sucks, especially when I type fast, "The original Fleetwood Mac were a British blues band, led by Peter Green, HE was their lead guitarist and was also the main singer. Later versions of Fleetwood, with Jermey Spencer and John Welch, had other members singing too. Peter, wrote "Black Magic Woman", which was hit for Santana."

r196- Yeah, Joan definitely had her dalliances with drugs back when she was in The Runaways. She and Cherie Currie pretty much admit it in this video...

But, it seems she was never hard-core about her drug-use (unless you count pot as a drug). From various people's comments and from articles and things, I get the impression that Joan's main vice was alcohol rather than hard drugs. And, I guess she's on and off with her alcohol addiction. Lately, I'd say she is more off it than on. Most of the messy stories about her hitting the bottle seem to come from years ago.

I do wonder though, what could cause her eyes to be so different. Like, sometimes, she looks not fully awake, like her eyes are sitting further back in her head (meaning that the whites of the lower-eye start to show), and I wonder what that's about, cause I've never seen a person's actual eye-positions change like that.

...This video shows what I mean about the sleepy-eyes thing. Granted, this was in the 1980s, but she still sometimes has that look, in pictures now.

r117/119- You say that Joan was asked to leave your office because she smelled of booze and you mentioned her "jacked up eyes". Well, just out of curiosity, did the "jacked up eyes" you refer to look like what I describe in r199 and r200? Is that a drug-induced look, do you think?

Also, what year was it that you had that meeting with Joan? I ask, because I'm trying to get a sense of when her relapse may have occurred. I know it doesn't really matter, but I'm just curious. Thanks!

Joan had a facelift about 3-4 years ago. She also wears a wig now.

r202- You admitted on another thread that you are a drug addict. You also claimed not to know who Joan was. You also claimed that she "broke a table" and that her "wig" had to be sent home separately. Yeah, a likely story! Nice try, buddy.

What thread was that? Never said anything like that.

r204- You mean you aren't r37 of this thread here? Funny, cause you both mention her wig! Anyway, I doubt she wears a wig.

Nope. Look how think her hair is, compared to 10 years ago, or 5.

r206- Dude, it's not. That's just volume from teasing the hair, but when she starts sweating, it goes down. You can see it here in this video of her, which was just from a couple months ago... You mean to tell me THAT'S a wig? Ain't no way, man.

Maybe she wasn't wearing it that night.

She give her hair a little adjustment at the beginning.

r208- I touch my head like that all the time, and goodness knows, I don't wear a wig!

That being said, it's possible that she wears a wig to glam up her appearance sometimes, but that doesn't mean she's bald, like someone suggested. I know ladies who want to wear wigs just because they like them, and because it's easier than messing with their own hair. But, they aren't bald either. Just FYI.

re: r209 Another thing to consider is the sweat factor. I think you can tell when Joan is not wearing a wig, because majority of the time (and depending on the venue), her hair will get all sweaty during concerts (along with the rest of her).

If she were wearing a wig during those concerts, it wouldn't end up dripping with sweat, as wigs are attached to skull caps and would not be affected by her perspiration. So, when in doubt, just look for the sweat- like this...

I would like to thank r91 for sharing the greatness that is Chrissie Hynde and The Pretenders with this thread! Truth is, I have always loved that song, "I'll Stand By You" but before this thread, I was not aware of who sang it or anything.

While Joan Jett has pretty much earned the crown of queen of r N' r on this thread, Chrissie Hynde was a wonderful person to learn about in the process. I've got a new favorite to add to my list of favorites now. Yeah!

I agree 100% with R197 about FM/Nicks.

She is incredibly overrated as a songwriter. She was a hippie/dippy/wannabe-witch, wannabe songwriter. She repeated the same ticks over and over, and relied way too much on the chords of A minor, G, and F. She played a role, and did it well for what it was and who she is, but she is NOT any sort of genius songwriter along the lines of Mitchell, Dylan, Cohen, or even Carly Simon. Christ, Courtney Love (who adores Nicks) was a better lyricist.

r212- I agree. Courtney Love is at least interesting to me. I just can't get into Stevie Nicks.

By the way, Courtney Love was always a huge Joan Jett fan, up until Joan was looking for song writing partners and chose Kathleen Hanna instead, totally bypassing Courtney. Courtney claims to have been really hurt by that, because of what a big Joan fan she was (can't say I blame her). But, I doubt Joan meant to make Courtney feel bad.

However, there could be some animosity between Joan and her also do to the fact that Courtney punched Joan's ten gal-pal, Kathleen Hanna, backstage at Lalapalooza years ago. But, it was supposedly because Kathleen had said something mean about Courtney's daughter, which doesn't sound too far-fetched, so I kinda get where she's coming from.

Poor Courtney. If only Joan would acknowledge her, I'm sure it would mean so much!

...

Your point, r214?

Jesus, Bjelland looks like shit there. Holy hell. She's at the age where I would expect her to gain weight, not lose it.

I loved their album Fontanelle. It was one of the first alternative/grunge albums I got into, back when I was still a pop fan (Madonna, Michael Jackson), about to come of age and develop my taste. It was a gateway album.

I know she's come out as bipolar or schizophrenic lately, which is a bitch, but she looks really haggard there.

Chrissie Hynde would be the top female rock star. She wrote, played and sang her own songs in undeniably a rock style. She partied with and front her male bandmates. She has one of the most iconic debut rock albums. It has no filler.

This is rock n' roll OP

So it this not "pop" just because it was "popular"

[quote]Chrissie Hynde would be the top female rock star. She wrote, played and sang her own songs in undeniably a rock style. She partied with and front her male bandmates. She has one of the most iconic debut rock albums. It has no filler.

Don't forget, Chrissie moved to London and became a rock journalist. She wrote for the NME before forming The Pretenders. she also hung out with musicians from and wrote about the punk scene. She was friends with the Sex Pistols and Siouxsie from The Banshees.

I was kind of turned off when Chrissie actually got involved with one of her idols, Ray Davies from The Kinks, she also had a kid with him. For me, it kind of blurred the lines, their short lived relationship made Chrissie seem like a groupie. Then she married Jim Kerr of Simple Minds!

R219, you need to re-read the post upthread from the person who knows someone who went to high school with her. She isn't a "rocker", she wanted to be a Broadway star. She just happened to get lucky singing some rock-oriented songs and stuck with that.

She is NOT a rocker. She doesn't play guitar, doesn't care about rock music, doesn't own a distortion pedal (I'm guessing). You really think that rock music fans—the people who love Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, Hendrix, Blue Oyster Cult—actually think of Benatar as a rocker?

I should have added that I am NOT the OP, either.

[quote]Chrissie Hynde would be the top female rock star. She wrote, played and sang her own songs in undeniably a rock style.

r217- I agree with you, except for one little thing: she has made it clear that she has a disdain for stardom and even a certain resentment for fans sometimes. She's mellowed over the years from what I can tell and has had some genuinely sweet moments with her fans recently. However, she still resents stardom, which a true rock star wouldn't do in my opinion.

So, I'll give Joan Jett the edge, for the fact that she appreciates her stardom (doesn't mind being recognized, etc.) and yet maintains that her musical urges are apart from all those trappings. Sounds like a true rock star to me!

[Quote] However, she still resents stardom, which a true rock star wouldn't do in my opinion.

True rock stars don't kiss ass 24/7, too willful and independent. Take 'em or leave em, they're here for the music.

[quote]True rock stars don't kiss ass 24/7, too willful and independent. Take 'em or leave em, they're here for the music.

But, Joan Jett maintains that she does what she does for the love of the music and that she's a fan herself, just like us. But, she goes a step further, by also saying that her favorite part of the music career, aside from the music itself, is connecting with the audience. She says she strives to make each member of the audience feel noticed, like she's singing especially for them, because she is. She says she loves connecting with her fans (and has even made a point to call fans up on the phone, if they include a phone number in their letters to her). So, for that, I give Joan the edge, because she has never taken us for granted the way Chrissie has been known to do before.

Believe me, I love Chrissie. I really do. But, Joan seems to have a more positive outlook in general and loves her fans, so it only seems right that she be crowned queen of rock, cause one who balks at being a star, like Chrissie does, certainly can't be a queen!

Queen of Rock is a useless moniker given by those who insist they possess the only rightful opinion able to decree it. Queen of Rock is moot until by mass public opinion it becomes a unanimously accepted honorary title. Which is not the case here. E.g.: Queen of Soul, King of Rock n Roll, King of Pop, Fab Four, etc...

r226- Why do you think I'm emphasizing the title so strongly? It is precisely because it is not a widely accepted title that I'm emphasizing it, because it's about time it were!

And on that note, you still can't deny that if there were a widely accepted queen of rock, Joan Jett would be it!

Pat Benatar for the win.

Benatar rules

Wanda Jackson.

You'll have to do better than that, r228/r229!

[quote][R217]- I agree with you, except for one little thing: she has made it clear that she has a disdain for stardom and even a certain resentment for fans sometimes. She's mellowed over the years from what I can tell and has had some genuinely sweet moments with her fans recently. However, she still resents stardom, which a true rock star wouldn't do in my opinion. So, I'll give Joan Jett the edge, for the fact that she appreciates her stardom (doesn't mind being recognized, etc.) and yet maintains that her musical urges are apart from all those trappings. Sounds like a true rock star to me!

It’s very odd that Chrissie disdains stardom, especially as she herself is a huge fan of rock music, which is what motivated her to leave the US and move to London, to be part of a scene her idols were part of.

If this is true, Chrissie comes across as hypocritical, she was a huge music fan, especially of The Kinks, she then ended up getting knocked up by one of her idols, Ray Davies of The Kinks! Who wants to read nonsense that she disdains stardom, when she herself was acting like a starfucker!

If she doesn’t like the heat, she needed to go into another field. Don't get my wrong, I’ve always been a big fan of Chrissie, at least of The Pretenders first three albums. I saw them live every time they hit NYC. I saw them at the old Central Park Wollman Rink where Summer concerts were held. The Pretenders actually played the last concert there before the area was renovated. I also saw them at The Ritz (now Webster Hall) and I forgot the other venues, but she needs to take it down a few notches talking about hating stardom.

Sure, crazed fans acting like you invented the wheel can be very dumb behavior, but it goes with the the territory. Chrissie should be intelligent enough to realize, you cannot pick and choose how fans react to you and your music. Some fans are purely into the music, while others become a bit obsessed, wanting to go to every gig, following them around, read every article. Chrissie might hate stardom, but she's sure been cashing those paychecks all these years.

So which other female singer won the Grammy Best Rock Female

FOUR YEARS IN A ROW

Only Pat Benatar

So until another singer BEATS her record, Pat is the Queen

End of story

R232, you're an idiot. Rockers don't look to the Grammys for validation. They're seen as an event where the recordin industry congratulates each other on their sales. Nothing to do with who's the greatest in any given genre.

[quote]So which other female singer won the Grammy Best Rock Female FOUR YEARS IN A ROW Only Pat Benatar So until another singer BEATS her record, Pat is the Queen End of story

R232, The Grammys have NOTHING to do with REAL rock music, it's just a popularity contest based on sales and other shit. Some of the greatest rock bands have never been mega-sellers. The general public buy braindead crap. Look who sells, utter garbage like Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber!

Do you know how long it took for The Beatles or The Rolling Stones to finally get a Grammy?

You are clueless. Do you work for Pat or know her?

Can any of you name an Artist that won a category FOUR YEARS IN A ROW at Grammys?

Why would we want to, R235?

[quote] Why would we want to

If you can't you have lost the argument, as winning four years in a row ends any type of debate.

LOL, R237.

"Poor Courtney. If only Joan would acknowledge her, I'm sure it would mean so much!'

Oh shut up, you moron. Courtney Love is a "fan" of anybody she thinks she can get something out of. Joan Jett doesn't mean shit to her. Joan Jett doesn't mean shit to a lot of people.

Actually R235 Miss Aretha Franklin would like you and Pat to take many seats as she swept the R&B Female Vocal performance Grammy category for 8 consecutive years (1968-1975) until Natalie Cole finally beat her...

[quote] Miss Aretha Franklin would like you and Pat to take many seats as she swept the R&B Female Vocal performance Grammy category for 8 consecutive years (1968-1975)

Which is why Aretha is called the Queen of Soul

So thanks again for proving my point

R211 Cool. You're welcome. Kid is similar, will post for you...

r243- Thanks. It's a good song too.

You all can say what you want about who's the best, but no one rocks with more adorableness, charm, and personality than Joan Jett!

Joan can't sing, her head is stapled together and nobody remembers who she is. She isn't part of the Blondie or Patti Smith wave, and she can't crawl to the boot of Chrissie Hynde. She's Bananarama and GoGos and the impossible Suzi Quartered. They are the dregs or female exploitation rock. She's a lesbian who sucks dick. And yeah she pukes her wig off at parties. Thanks for the surgeries Joan Jett. Who wants to be you?

Sounds a bit poppy to me...ask Beavis & Butthead what they think...

Wow, so many haters in this thread.

Given that so much pop music is really bad braindead absolute shit, Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber anyone? Why the negativity against Joan? The woman always wanted to be a rocker and she achieved her goals. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes in this thread.

Swift and Bieber are far more talented than Joan Jett, are you nuts? I don't like them much but you really showed your age and ignorance. Joan Jett is kindergarten rock. Swift is a great pop songwriter and Bieber is a pretty good instrumentalist and singer. His songs this last year are better than anything JJ could ever vomit out. Love yourself.

Her "Love is a Battlefield" video marked the end of her trying to fool anyone into thinking she was anything more than an 80's manufactured pop star.

[quote]Swift and Bieber are far more talented than Joan Jett, are you nuts? I don't like them much but you really showed your age and ignorance. Joan Jett is kindergarten rock. Swift is a great pop songwriter and Bieber is a pretty good instrumentalist and singer. His songs this last year are better than anything JJ could ever vomit out. Love yourself.

Age and ignorance? LOOOOOL. I was around when Joan first hit the scene in The Runaways. I've lived through many eras of great pop music, I know what I'm talking about. Joan is kindergarten rock? That's rich! What the fuck would you call that ear bleeding caterwauling by that closet case Taylor Swift, all those fake juvenile romance songs.

I grew up around real musicians. One of my uncles was an in-demand session musician and my family's parties were always filled with great music. You know shit about me and my taste in music. I listen to all sorts of music. I can differentiate better good and bad music.

TS and JB are pure unadulterated garbage. Just because a song is catchy doesn't mean it will be remembered years down the line, it doesn't make the song good. Next thing, you'll be comparing the braindead tripe of TS and JB with people like Hendrix, The Beatles, Prince, Stevie Wonder, The Rolling Stones and all the other super talented R'nB, pop and rock greats! Just mentioning TS and JB shows how little you know about truly great pop music!

You are the one showing your age. It's clear you're a very young person who buys into any current bullshit the media throws at you.

Taylor Swift is supremely untalented, her songs are twee nonsense and she cannot sing.

Many will argue, Joan Jett doesn't have a great voice. I realize she can't sing like Chrissie Hynde or Pat Benatar, Joan's more of a song stylist, in the vein of someone like Rod Stewart, she can put across a song, without having great voice. Taylor Swift cannot do that because her music is utter garbage. The combo of bad songs and a horrid voice, doesn't equal great pop music.

I guarantee, no one will remember most of today's crappy pop music in the future. Yet they will still be listening to everyone I listed, the proof is that a lot of young people today are actually listening to R'nB, pop and rock from many different eras. They are so dissatisfied with current music, they are looking to the past.

Explore, there's world of excellent music already out there, no one is forcing you to listen to crap like TS and JB. Don't believe the hype, it really is that easy.

Some of my favorite female musicians in general, whether rock or not, are:

Joan Jett,

Suzi Quatro,

Chrissie Hynde,

and

Debbie Harry.

Pat Benetar and Stevie Nicks don't even register for me. And although I acknowledge Nancy Wilson's talent, I don't get excited about her for some reason, so I'll put her in with Pat and Stevie as a musician who does little for me. I think it has to do with pizzazz. Joan, Chrissie, Suzi, and especially Debbie, have so much pizzazz. They make me want to get up and dance, they are ageless, they are energetic, they are fun. But, Pat, Stevie, and Nancy...they don't have that kind of pizzazz. I'm not saying they lack energy, but their collective vibe is different- more serious than fun, I'd say.

Right on, R251.

Suzi Quatro as Leather Tuscadero on "Happy Days"

[quote]It’s very odd that Chrissie disdains stardom, especially as she herself is a huge fan of rock music, which is what motivated her to leave the US and move to London, to be part of a scene her idols were part of. If this is true, Chrissie comes across as hypocritical,

r231- Yes, it's true. See her talking about it in the linked video. And, you're right, it does make her seem hypocritical.

It's like I tell people who complain about autograph hounds who sell the signatures:

Those folks forget that the people BUYING the autographs usually are real fans and have no other means to get one- that's why they buy it. And, those going through the trouble of obtaining the autographs for these customers are paying for it in time and effort. So, why not just do a nice turn for somebody else? Yes, on the surface, it may seem silly, and those hounds may seem greedy. But, look beyond that, and it's actually a pay-it-forward gesture. So, she and other celebs should consider that, and then be happy to oblige; a little kindness never hurts. Never.

And, speaking of celebs, it's ironic that Chrissie claims not to respect or understand the concept of celebrity or why fans do what they do, when she herself was helping to promote celeb culture by being a music reporter for a magazine, back in her pre-stardom days.

All that said, I do love Chrissie (even if I also think she's wrong sometimes).

When did Chrissie become a blond? I guess as she aged, the black hair was too harsh? I notice, a lot of natural brunettes go blond as they age.

Yeah, not a good look.

Chrissie's hair looks kind of damaged, but hair gets fucked up as we age, well, for a lot of us. Her hair also looks much thinner.

Hey, even Pat herself agrees! Referring to Joan Jett during a VH1 women who rock special, she said "I'm Marie Osmond compared to her!" LOL!

I guess this concludes the debate once and for all!

...Straight outta the horse's mouth.

Oh you cunts must be so happy to settle that argument. Good fucking grief.

"Hey, even Pat herself agrees! Referring to Joan Jett during a VH1 women who rock special, she said "I'm Marie Osmond compared to her!" LOL!"

I think that she meant that in terms of trashiness. No one can outdo Joan Jett when it comes to being trashy and nasty. She is one nasty bitch. LOL!

Right, she's saying that even she isn't as ratchet as Joan Jett

Brunettes go blonde as they age because it's easier to camouflage the gray.

See also: Wintour, Anna; Crawford, Joan.

r262 Yeah? Like how?

r264 is totally lost!

Prove it or pack it, r265!

Whoops! ^^^That goes to r262. Prove it or pack it, r262!

And r263- you're not much better!

Does Pat still have her huge horse teeth? I've never seen such huge teeth on such a tiny woman!

I like Pat. Saying she's not a rocker shouldn't be taken as an insult to her. It's just that she's not.

Her fans are freaking today though, as the Rock Hall of Fame announced the 2018 nominees, and she again wasn't among them. But, they must understand- she's been giving the proverbial finger to them for so long via comments she's made and such, they'd have to be nuts to induct her!

Benatar was rock in the same way that Styx, Journey, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, etc were. They all got played on the same AOR stations.

It seems this debate has made its way on other sites... strange, as I see little similarity between Pat and Joan, but apparently, they are similar enough to pit head-to-head.

To each his own, but Pat B deserves to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame before Kate Bush - and I love Kate Bush.

The day they induct Pat Benatar into the RRHOF should be the day they just burn it down.

This has always been the controversy with Benatar. Read the reviews of her first record. I did listen to In The Heat of The Night last month - thank you Apple Music for indulging my worst impulses - and the production actually embraces more new wave than rock (save for the lead single, Heartbreaker, which was clearly recorded to get her airplay on rock radio). At one point adopting a cod-British dialect and on No, You Don’t singing lyrics like “...have to be so bloody cool.” (In her second outing, Crimes of Passion, she did a respectable cover of Kate Bush’s Wuthering Heights - clearly to show off her voice, another pop appropriation as empty as her others.)

She could sing. But she was no rocker. I saw her once at the beginning of the Precious Time tour, I was in the 9th or 10th grade. It was pretty boring. Her stage shtick was similar to watching a lazy person in the back of an aerobics class.

I think most people who'd define rock chicks would list Grace Slick, Janis Joplin, Carly Simon (yes), Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks, Ann Wilson, Pat Benatar, Chrissie Hynde, Joan Jett. Kate Bush? Hell no.

"Yeah? Like how?"

LOOK at her, you idiot. That is a NASTY bitch.

"Prove it or pack it/"

She looks like she hasn't had a bath in twenty years and has munched a few thousand carpets. That's proof enough of nastiness, you retard.

" Sounds like a lot of sour grapes in this thread."

Sounds like there is a retarded troll in this thread: YOU.

Shadows of the Night is still a great 80s pop production and I still jam to it when it comes on the radio.

Is Joan Jett still a carpet muncher?

Sounds like someone in this thread got rejected for a one-night stand a la Steven Tyler.

Look mate, just because you're not Joan Jett's type doesn't mean you have to take it out on everyone here with your insulting posts.

For Pat Benatar and Neil Giraldo fans, they have a new concert DVD out where they sing acoustic versions of their songs.

She still sounds great, and I love the interview segments on the DVD, because you can still tell that those two are still crazy about each other after all these years.

[quote]I think most people who'd define rock chicks would list Grace Slick, Janis Joplin, Carly Simon (yes), Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks, Ann Wilson, Pat Benatar, Chrissie Hynde, Joan Jett. Kate Bush? Hell no.

I have no real arguments with that list, if it's not in order of Godessness.

But I would add Ronnie Spector, Dusty Springfield and even Maniacs-era Natalie Merchant along with Kate Bush, assuming Carly Simon qualifies.

Grace Slick doesn't get the love she deserves, maybe because she didn't die young and retired before embarrassing herself onstage.

"Back at the London Palladium in the Sixties, I used to rock with the best of them!"

--Angela Lansbury in her "Positive Moves" video

Yes, Benetar is rock. A wide range of music falls under the umbrella of rock.

They're considering soul artists for RRHOF, so no, they shouldn't "burn it down."

If we are only including the hardest of hard rocking women, there would be about 6 all together. Luckily, most of us aren't that dense, narrow or pressed about it.

Dusty could lay it down with the best of them.

Some songs are rock-ish, like Heartbreaker.

I honestly don't think that many people have a "belief" that she's a rocker. Most people are casual music fans and take it all in stride. And, why would it even matter this point? Why did this upset the OP so much?

She definitely has some songs like Hell Is For Children and Promises in the Dark that are rock sounding. But I would say Stevie has emerged in recent years as the undisputed Queen of Rock. She sold out MSG all by herself. Not even with Fleetwood Mac. Chrissie Hynde deigned to open for her. Her legacy and legend have only been burnished more and more thru the years. Pat is playing small arenas. So when you corronate someone, you have to factor in durability and relevance. Which Stevie wins by a landslide. Ugh. Sorry.

Correction- Pat is playing smaller theaters, not arenas.

I'm much more relevant and I've never had to do sexual favors to stay relevant.

Well, Pat Benetar was NOT inducted into the Hall of Fame today.

So now, she's officially, positively, absolutely NOT a rocker!!

[Sorry, I just had to go there- LOL]

Pat Benetar's sound was most certainly heavy in guitars and guitar-driven.

"Pop" would have been more like Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, Prince, or those English New Wave synth-pop bands. But even they were still primarily rock-based.

So it's absolutely fair to call Pat Benatar a rocker. But no, a 3-hit wonder doesn't deserve the title "Queen of Rock and Role," especially if she only ruled in one half of a decade.

And you're out of your mind if you think Joan Jett deserves the title "Queen of Rock and Roll." She can't even write hits by herself and rarely wrote at all -- the gal relied heavily upon covers and writers. I love her and Tina Turner, but you have to be a great, hit-making songwriter over many decades to be "Queen."

That's why Deborah Harry is still the Queen of Rock and Roll to me. As talented as Aretha was, Ms. Aretha only wrote "Think" of her many hits.

Aretha also wrote "Call Me" and "Day Dreaming." Probably others I'm forgetting. She was a great piano player as well.

[quote]And you're out of your mind if you think Joan Jett deserves the title "Queen of Rock and Roll." She can't even write hits by herself and rarely wrote at all -- the gal relied heavily upon covers and writers. I love her and Tina Turner, but you have to be a great, hit-making songwriter over many decades to be "Queen."

In that case, r294- how is it Debbie Harry?! Most of her songs are written with others, AND she doesn't play an instrument. If you're going to form such strict criteria for the title, then Chrissie Hynde fits it better. Fact.

It's also a fact that you are wrong about Joan rarely writing at all. That's just a total bogus statement, based on pure ignorance! Fact is, her band has done more originals than covers, and of those originals, Joan has co-written every song by them, save for only 2 or 3 at the most!! She has also written about 16 or 17 songs on her own, with no co-witters. Put it all together, and Joan has had a hand in writing AT LEAST 135 songs for her bands!!

So, everyone needs to stop making like Joan Jett is not a songwriter!! Damn it, SHE IS!!

135 songs, and 16 (at least) solo is nothing to sneeze at, r294!

...I repeat:

Joan Jett IS a songwriter!!

Joan Jett has written songs both solo, and with co-writers!!

Joan Jett has had a hand in writing over 135 songs on her albums!! And y'all wanna say she's just a cover-girl who doesn't write?! Get real!!

Let the truth be known:

Joan Jett, the supposed cover-band front-woman, has actually written more original songs than many artists who aren't known as cover stars!! And if that's not an example of irony and extreme ignorance on the part of the people who willingly ignore that, then I don't know what is!

You can repeat a lie, but it's still a lie.

You're the ignorant one here. I'm basing my opinion on the FACT that I've listened to ALL of Joan Jett's albums and read her Billboard chart ratings. FACT: Joan Jett has only written NINE SONGS ALL BY HERSELF. And they're all horrible.

Even the songs where Joan had co-writing help, most of them are really unpleasant to listen to.

FACT: Joan Jett could only get 11 songs to chart in Billboard's Top 100 hits and only "I Love Rock and Roll" went to #1. That was a COVER that wasn't written by either Jett or Kenny Ortega. FACT.

Conversely, Blondie or Deborah Harry produced 15 songs total that made the Billboard 100 and FOUR OF THOSE WENT TO #1! Better than Joan Jett. FACT.

FACT: Joan Jett only contributed writing to ONE of her Billboard hits: "I Hate Myself for Loving You." Everything else was written for her and most of those hits were covers!

Blondie's songs are not just more popular, they're more fun. They're diverse and robust. Joan only has one style. It rocks and I love it, but it gets old. And everyone can name a few Blondie songs. Most people are lucky to name "I Love Rock and Roll" when asked what Joan Jett sings.

But I thank you for acknowledging Chryssie Hynde, as she is a greater talent than Joan. The Pretenders had a lot of modest hits in the lower Billboard 100, but only "Brass in Pocket" went to #1. They're not as famous and their songs are nowhere near as fun as Blondie's OR Joan's hits.

Unlike r296, I will now link to the proof of my facts:

r298- Ya know, I hate to embarrass someone who is so sure that they're right, but... you're not right, dude.

Notice in my original post how I referred to Joan Jett's "bands" as in more than one band. You left out that she was in The Runaways and also wrote some songs solo, while with that band. So, that changes the math. Hence, Joan Jett has written at least 16 songs by herself. If you want a list of them, they are:

Songs written solely by Joan:

* Fetish

*I Love Playing with Fire

*You Drive Me Wild

*Love is Pain

*You're Too Possessive

*Don't Abuse Me

*Fragile

*My Buddy and Me

*Wait for Me

*Turn it Around

*Reality Mentality

*Take it or Leave It

*Gotta Get Out Tonight

*Don't Go Away

*Takeover

*C'mon

They are good songs, and they are more than the 9 you claim she did.

And in addition to all those, she has co-written every original Blackhearts (and few pre-Blackhearts) song, except for 2. That means that she's written and co-written a grand total of at least 124 songs (not counting the songs that she's been involved with for other people). Source: Wikipedia discography page and Joan Jett's fan-site lyrics section.

Now, lets compare Joan's numbers with that of Debbie Harry's:

Blondie songs by Debbie Harry only: 6 or 7.

Blondie songs co-written by Debbie Harry: About 70.

Source: Wikipedia discography

Plus, about 45 songs that she wrote or co-wrote on her solo albums, bringing her songwriting total to: 122. About the same as Joan Jett's. BUT! Debbie does not play an instrument in the band and looks more pop than rock. That's nothing against her, I think she's great. But, the fact is that Joan is more the embodiment of what rock means than Debbie Harry is! She's got the look, she's got the style, she's got the sound.

The only person who deserves the title of "Queen of Rock" as much or more than Joan does would be her own personal rock n' roll role-model, Suzi Quatro. But, I think Joan has the edge, even over Suzi, due to her work with other musicians over the years, her work as a producer and record-label owner, and the fact that she has reached icon status. Even Elvis's own aunt said that she saw something of Elvis (a.k.a the King of Rock) in her, which basically says it all right there!

Now, tell me again how Joan Jett is not queen of Rock n' Roll?!

R299 There you go.

Who the fuck is Joan Jett? I've heard of Pat Benatar, Heart and Blondie, but this black-haired chick some of you are going on about is new to me. Is this some Boomer act?

r301- "Some boomer act"? No, no more than the others you mentioned are!

Joan Jett watched as a bedmate was raped. She watched and laughed. Some person the Joan Jett troll has chosen to stan.

Joan Jett is ugly and can't sing.

[quote] The day they induct Pat Benatar into the RRHOF should be the day they just burn it down.

This poster is one of the dumbest people who has EVER posted on the DL.

This sentence is so fucking dumb, it should be grounds for criminal arrest.

r303- You know what? You misunderstand what a troll is, cause you keep calling anyone who passionately likes Joan a "troll" without realizing that it is you- you're the troll!

r303- Were you there? No? Then, you can't say that's true- especially if you don't know much about her, don't follow her, and know nothing about her personality beyond surface-level stuff that you use for petty insults.

I really hope nobody lies about you in their life. But, if they do, it would serve you right if everyone believed it!

If anyone is Queen of Rock, it's Hynde. That woman is legendary.

R306-you sound a little.......invested.

I read a couple accounts of the incident. Jett watched Jackie Fuchs get raped and did nothing to stop it. She didn't do anything because she didn't want Fowley to destroy her career. Your idol has feet of clay.

Queens of Rock and Roll: Janis Joplin, Heart, Chrissie Hynde, Debbie Harry. Joan Jett was a one hit wonder. Props to that, but compared to rest? Come on.

Some of Benatar's early stuff was rock for sure, but once she started getting hits she transitioned to soft rock. Nothing wrong with that. She found her niche in a tough industry and became a success. While we're here quibbling about these various women, they're all sipping cocktails in their mansions, so who cares at the end of the day. (And am I dreaming but wasn't there once a thread on Joan Jett's wig or her hair or something? That was weird.)

r311- Yes, there was a thread that mentioned Joan Jett's wigs and her being bald, which she once was, on purpose, but hasn't been since 2001 or so. Some seem to think she wears wigs, but she sweats far too much for that to be true, and her scalp is clearly visible most of the time- though I wouldn't rule out that she wears hair-pieces from time to time.

I love me some Chrissie Hynde and adore Debbie Harry. So, I certainly don't mind if some consider them the queens of rock- or even Ann Wilson! But, whenever those ladies are mentioned, I just don't think Joan gets her proper due. People can think so n' so is best or whoever. Doesn't bother me, as long as Joan isn't dissed, because I don't think she should be.

As said before though, if we can't agree that it's Joan, then I think Suzi Quatro should get the title, because even Chrissie Hynde was inspired by her, and she's a multi-talented, multi-instrumentalist who really does rock! She's not just Leather Tuscedaro from Happy Days.

Pat Benetar though...eh...I wanna like her more than I do, but...she bores me after a while. And she doesn't rock much, in my opinion.

Pat's definitely soft rock, which is okay. I find myself humming along to Shadows of the Night when it comes on the radio. She did have a hell of a voice.

"...more proof that she's catnip to the ladies!"

A certain type of "lady." Skanks, to be accurate.

Although there was definitely a King of Rock and Roll (Elvis Presley, of course) there was never any Queen, although over the years different female singers have been labeled as such. But none of them ever were. There was never really a Queen of Rock and Roll.

As for Joan Jett and Pat Benatar...well, I never liked either one. I never much liked any music that either one did and they both seem awful. Joan has always come across as s surly, unwashed druggie. And Pat Benatar, judging from her interviews and memoir is a full of herself cunt.

Joan Jett, Chrissie Hind and Pat Benatar all had versions of that brunette helmet hair shag cut. The same severe make-up, too. They could have been interchangeable. Was that a requirement if you wanted to be a femme rocker? Even Quattro sported a version of that hairstyle, although she frosted the hell out of hers.

Wig time.

Poor Suzi Quatro. She was supposed to be the next big female rocker, but her career went nowhere in the U.S., although she did have several novelty hits in England. She was the manufactured product of of Mickie Most, a record producer who thought it would be a an original idea to take a cute little girl (Quatro), dress her in leather jumpsuit and have her play an oversized bass. He instructed her to sing in a high pitched shriek and a new glitter rock act was born. She was promoted as this butch, rock and roll sex bomb; she'd say stupid things like "if I let my feelings out into my body I'd be the biggest whore in the business." The image didn't go over well in the United States, and Quatro eventually ended up on, of all things, the tv series "Happy Days." She played Pinky Tuscadero's little sister, a juvenile delinquent named "Leather." What a come down.

Can’t we all get along and agree that her husband Neil Giraldo was sex on a stick?