Democrats’ 2020 Autopsy: Bad polling and Effective GOP Attacks hurt us badly

While Democratic leadership focuses on policy that will help people and the economy, Republicans focus on ways to attack the Dems for helping the people and the economy.

How anyone votes Republican is beyond my comprehension. They have no platform. They are just awful.

B-but the polls!

My hope is that many of the people who are Trump Voters only turn out to vote for Trump, but otherwise can't be bothered to vote.

They're not traditional Republicans either, and Trump has pushed many traditional Republicans out of the party, especially the more affluent and educated ones merely by ensuring that the GOP is seen as the party of White Trash and affluent suburbanites do not want to be associated with that.

... and the Dems will do nothing about it - as usual.

Dems have to realize that people are stupid and like slogans over serious policy

[quote]Maloney laid out how Democrats simply underestimated the number of hardcore Trump voters and, with more Trump voters in the voting booths, the Republican attacks against the “defund the police” movement proved more potent than Democrats ever anticipated.

The Republicans put out slogans and lies like always but on top of that did a good job of getting out the vote for people who weren't going to vote for Trump. Usually those people who won't vote for president just stay home but local and state races worked hard to get people out anyway, and I think that surprised everyone. Hopefully we'll be more prepared in midterms.

I still think some races were rigged, Lindsey Graham especially, and Mitch McConnell, they both had such low approval scores.

I still believe that the lack of in person campaigning, rallies, and door knocking hurt us more than anything else. The bottom line is, by trying to model good behavior, we allowed Covid to fuck up our ground game. We should have, at least, 52 seats in the Senate right now.

It’s far easier to mobilize people based on fear than positive things or facts—easier to appeal to emotions with buzzwords than to use facts and logic (this is consistent with persuasion research that has been out there in social sciences for decades). Republicans probably saw this research and ran with it, creating buzzwords and phrases to terrify people into voting red. “Socialist” “Marxist” etc. are some of the popular terms they’re using now to label liberal politicians, but there is a long list of phrases they love to throw out come election time—-and it works. Somewhat.

But even when it doesn’t work, Republicans just game the system or change voting so that they keep their districts red.

So, Dems thinking that they should appeal to logic and facts only works with a portion of their base. The other portion will vote emotionally. Why not also use the same tactics of buzzwords and fear that Repubs use? Might as well use persuasion research to their advantage.

Also make sure to mobilize the younger votes so we don’t lose the progressive 20-somethings.

We were very lucky that Biden ran and got the nomination. He truly was the only one who could have beaten Trump.

I know you’re not supposed to say this but Black Lives Matter nearly ruined everything. They and their stupid slogans and outrageous behavior very nearly cost dems the house.

It's hard to come up with a one size fits all message for the Democratic Party. And the one thing that republicans do very well is weaponize the democratic base against voters and against each other, as witnessed by R11.

The analysis should look at how Democrats allowed fantasies to cause them to accept blatantly incorrect poll results. Lindsey Graham, for example, was never in danger of losing, whatsoever. It’s just bizarre that Democrats’ extreme wishful thinking would allow them to be hoodwinked to such a degree. I wonder if part of it is just a scheme to rake in contributions. On the other hand, there were many millions of dollars donated, because of the false polling, to completely lost causes. That money could have instead be used by candidates in real tight races who actually had a chance of winning.

People are so hungry for slogans that they saddled the entire national Democratic Party with "defund the police" even though there were only a very few (two or three, I think) candidates who ran on that as part of their platform. Biden repeatedly said he did not support defunding police but you couldn't convince people of it. Part of that was because of media, even mainstream sites, which would link all Democrats with defunding.

How do you combat that? It's a societal problem not a Democratic Party problem.

LOL. The Republicans are the ones who should be creating an autopsy report. But of course they are too fucking stupid to realize that they're rotting from within.

[quote] People are so hungry for slogans that they saddled the entire national Democratic Party with "defund the police" even though there were only a very few (two or three, I think) candidates who ran on that as part of their platform.

People were saddled with it because they didn’t condemn the people who did say “defund the police” and didn’t condemn the riots.

We also run with a weird black/white myopia- "socialism" reads very differently to Slavs and Latin Americans, and second/third generation Americans raised on horror stories about experiences with state run "socialism" in other countries.

Something upsetting happened to me yesterday. My young white nephew was concerned about getting tan, because "being black meant you could end up being a slave." He's from an incredibly liberal home and private school. But essentially what has happened is he's received such a bleak message about black identity and the struggle, and he's a child who can only grasp every other world, that the only thing he understands is that being black is terrible. And that's really not any better. I tried to talk about black greatness and the melting pot. But it was weird and sad.

The biggest thing that hurt Democrats was the inability to go door-to-door and do voter outreach because of the pandemic. Our voter outreach was almost nonexistent. Nothing can take the place of knocking on doors, talking to voters and getting them to the polls. Republicans didn't give a shit about the pandemic and did it anyway, which won them a lot of close House and Senate races.

Republicans are hyperenergized to always vote. They listen to rightwing radio, tv, nonstop, are told by religious figures that Democrats are evil atheists.

R18 is correct. I know we were in a pandemic, but it was very Stupid for Democrats to unilaterally suspend voter registration and door to door contacts. We conceded by not being on the battle field

Likewise, the lack of in person Democratic campaigning up and down the ballot was stupid. Republicans were having nonstop huge rallies that received favorable local media coverage. Democrats should have found a way to have socially distanced outdoor rallies, such as car driveins.

[quote]He said the biggest advantage for Democrats next year might just be Trump not being on the ballot, as the House GOP has so far remained fully in Trump’s corner. “The Republican Party is betting the ranch that they can do Trump’s toxicity without Trump’s turnout. And I think that may end up being a terrible mistake,” he said. “There’s that old saying that when the tide goes out, you find out who’s skinny-dipping. And if this tide of Trump turnout goes out in 2022, the Republicans may end up skinny-dipping.”

Please don't say they're actually this stupid, to once again rely on the idea that the GOP are going to fuck it up. They should be assuming that the Trump turnout is going to show up and have a plan for that, not just hoping it doesn't. It seems the Dems are incapable of inspiring voters out the polls, so they need to copy the GOP and scare their voters out. That means not saying shit like this, and convincing Dem voters that every Trump supporter is a certain voter, so Dems need to be too.

I am so scared of AOC and the squad that I will make sure to vote. Them bitches are frightening!

Keep denying the polls are accurate, r2. Republican fools haven’t lost enough.

R2 was too much of a pussy to bet on the Trump and Senate races last year because he’s a LIAR who would have lost.

Read all about it:

R11 = Boris the Nazi Incel and he’s STILL lying.

Most voters supported BLM over murderous cops and Trump trash. The hypocritical right-wing shrieking about “law and order” while Trump and cops were on a crime spree cost REPUBLICANS the election.

What a psycho @ r11!

I think it’s time we revisit the time r11 called the election for Trump last November.

Don’t forget how r11 called the Georgia Senate races for crooked Republicans despite their trailing in the polls:

There was a segment of progressives who claimed that “Socialism” is no longer Political poison because supposedly Millennials are cool with it, and Bernie had considerable support. Well, they are wrong. For the vast majority of the nation, socialism is still political poison, and perceived association with it likely cost us Florida, made Texas redder than expected. Hopefully, the damage with Latinos is not longterm

Democrats won the Senate because of all that “hoodwinked” fundraising, you lying loser @ R13.

You said the exact, same things about David Perdue and Kelly Loefller and look where that got you — Asscloiwn of the Year as McConnell’s reign of LIES, DEATH, RECESSION and HYPOCRISY went straight down the shitter.

There’s not enough redneck trash to rule the majority. Even when garbage, deadbeat Republicans win, it’s through unpopular technicalities like the Electoral College and gerrymandering.

DL is not as stupid as the GOP base, so save your breath, psycho. Hasn’t five years of political failure taught you that?

Dipshit.

I agree with you R28.

R28 The oddest part is the policies they promote aren't even socialist. Bernie calls himself a democratic socialist, he's actually a social democrat. And social democrat policies can be popular, even in the US, if they weren't promoted so poorly by the kinds of people who call themselves socialists not out of accuracy but just to rile people up. It's like they want to do the Republican's job for them. Like Defund the Police. A great policy with widespread support absolutely murdered by giving it the dumbest possible name imaginable. And then rather than admit the name was stupid and misled voters, doubling down on it.

[quote]My young white nephew was concerned about getting tan, because "being black meant you could end up being a slave."

What the hell, is he special? This can't be true.

[quote]Democrats should have found a way to have socially distanced outdoor rallies, such as car driveins.

They did, it was weird though that people on here would say they weren't having any but we'd link to reports of that day's drive in rallies and they'd keep saying Democrats never had any. I don't know why people think Democrats didn't have rallies. Go out to Google and search for Democrat Drive In Rally and it's tons of articles about Joe's rallies.

R33 Because a lot of people on here get their news from Fox. Sorry, got their news from Fox, it's probably from Newsmax now.

Democrats need to stop allowing Republicans hide all the socialism Republicans support and paint Democrats as absolute.

It’s not true!

[quote] They're not traditional Republicans either, and Trump has pushed many traditional Republicans out of the party, especially the more affluent and educated ones merely by ensuring that the GOP is seen as the party of White Trash and affluent suburbanites do not want to be associated with that.

Those more affluent types are becoming a minority in the Democratic party as well. A shrinking elite that controls increasingly more wealth is unsustainable. It's not just poor white trash. The middle class in fact bears the greatest burden.

The far left liberals call me Boris, even though I am an Independent who votes mostly for the Dems. It only makes me more validated when they have nothing else to say to support their beliefs but to call me Boris. For someone in middle age who has a great sex life, the newest faux insult is to call me an incel....as if. hee hee.

Only Boris gets his news from Fox here. Then he repeats it from multiple sock puppet accounts to make it seem like everyone is a Nazi.

It never works.

R37 =

Lies @ r36 with no statistical support whatsoever.

If socialism is “political poison,” then it’s time to campaign hard against all the Republican social spending, especially the corporate welfare.

Republicans are up to their eyeballs approving socialism every year — both W. Bush and Trump expanded the Welfare State.

[quote] Republicans are up to their eyeballs approving socialism every year

Precisely. It's not like Republicans are the party of 'fiscal responsibility' anymore They [bold]LOVE[/bold] wasting money. Just look at the idiotic audit in Arizona and the costly recall (not gonna happen) in California.

I agree with you, r29.

You're absolutely right, r25.

You're the most brilliant and incisive truth-teller of your generation. You have a conscience and common-sense about what the government should do. This site would really be lost without you!

Пока́ медве́дь спит, он мо́жет похуде́ть на 80 (во́семьдесят) килогра́мм! Ру́сские лю́ди о́чень похо́жи на медве́дей. Зимо́й они́ то́же стано́вятся медли́тельными и мно́го спят, r37.

Calling an American election "Rigged" is the most profoundly corrosive thing you can do to hurt the United States. I dont think you work for Russia or China. I do know that these countries pay trolls every single day to attack America by using that kind of language anywhere they can find American eyeballs.

You know what voters in South Carolina hate more than Lindsay Graham? Democrats.

In addition, any American who helped "rig" an election would probably spend close to the rest of their lives in prison. There are so many legal ways a political hack with access to funding can boost or suppress the vote that there would be no reason. Graham wasn't in danger of losing. Nobody risked life imprisonment on a race that was likely to be won by double digits

[quote] An individual’s likelihood of being a Democrat decreases with every additional dollar he or she earns. Democrats have a huge advantage (63 percent) with voters earning less than $15,000 per year. This advantage carries forward for individuals earning up to $50,000 per year, and then turns in the Republicans’ favor — with just 36 percent of individuals earning more than $200,000 per year supporting Democrats.

[quote] While Democrats lose support as income increases, there seems to be a tipping point where the ultra-wealthy begin leaning Democratic.

[quote] Among the riches families, the Democratic advantage rises even higher, to 75 percent.

Despite the Democrat's best efforts to portray Republicans as white trash, it's middle income Americans who vote predominantly Republican. The Democrats have been trying to expand their voting block because the wealth gap keeps expanding every year. The money also helps with fundraising, organizing, and increasingly propagandizing on social media and tech platforms. These demographics are still far more predictive on how people vote than any other issue. And another important thing is the ultra wealthy voting Democrat is a relatively new trend in American politics which has disrupted and realigned the whole system.

Didn’t we do this thread a million times and every time we do it OP ends up with egg on her face?

White people HATE Black Lives matter and Defund the Police. They're tired of watching all the commercials, TV shows and movies being turned over to black actors. Yes, indeed they feel like they are loosing their history, country and culture. Whites think they are the majority and have the right to fight back. It really goes beyond Trump. They will vote for anyone who is going to stand-up and fight for them. It does no good to hope these whites will learn and grow, that they will moderate their views. It is only going to get worse.

R49 You don’t have to be a white supremacist to dislike the Black Lives Matter organization.

I am for black equality. However, I don't justify mob violence, I'm not pro reparation, anti police, anti family, or anti Israel.

Democrats use the woke agenda in the same way Republicans used wedge issues back in the 90s; they want people to vote against their economic interests. It's seemingly bizarre that Democrats who used to be skeptical of corporations now defend them against people who argue for fair competition and free speech rights (which I define as non political).

What R31 said.

Team AOC needs to hire a marketing firm and learn why "Reform the Police" is much better than "Defund the Police" or "Abolish the Police" and why "Social Democrat" is better than "Democratic Socialist"

Not sure where those numbers about who votes for Democrats comes from, but if you look at any map of the 2020 election, Biden swept almost all of the affluent suburbs of the Northeast and California by massive margins

Chatham, NJ -- an upper middle class fairly WASP/Catholic suburb in NJ-- Biden 64%, Trump 35%

Croton-on-Hudson, NY - another WASP/Catholic middle to upper middle class burb in Westchester - Biden 78%, Trump 21%

Bryn Mawr, PA - Main Line Philadelphia - 82% Biden, 17% Trump

Owings Mills, MD - affluent Baltimore burb - 93% Biden, 6% Trump

Even in red states Biden did very well in the more affluent burbs-- Plano, TX, a more new money affluent suburb of Dallas - 59% Biden, 39% Trump

Did you copy that from the first draft you wrote on the inside wall of your colon, R46?

R46 + r47 + r49 - r52 = Grand Dragon Boris, masturbating in his white sheet.

She STILL hasn’t proved that affluent and middle class people are leaving the Democratic Party because the OPPOSITE is true; that’s why Republicans LOST.

R55 They can both be true. Ultra wealthy people are trending more democratic yet the growing wealth gap is also real.

^Which is why you see the rise in identitarians in the Democratic party. It's because most races vote according to their income.

Prove it, you Fake News bitch.

All you do is lie and fabricate self-serving delusions.

Although Biden won (consistent with the polls), the Democrats suffered poll-defying down ballot losses. There was no blue wave. But Ds did nothing to demand robust manual audits of those losses. They rarely do. In short, Rs conduct #fraudits p; Ds play dead. Happy medium pls?!

This country is now in a war between urban vs. rural voters. I'm really tired of a vote in California not being worth as much as a vote in WY in terms of the senate, etc. I think popular vote should win all races--locally all the way up to nationally. Rural voters DO have a voice--their votes, which should be equal to everyone else's via simple majority. If they don't win the majority, too bad.

The electoral system is archaic--let's get rid of it.

There was a blue wave. Sadly there was also a massive red wave. Democrats lost ALL the swing districts but a lot of those districts were Republican held districts that dems flipped in 2018. Democrats should have done much better with Biden at the top of the ticket but it’s not a party-ending election like the last few have been for Labour in the UK. The senate results were disappointing of course but not all that unexpected. I think the only true shock win was Susan Collins and even that race was still listed as a toss up leading to Election Day. Democrats mistakenly looked at fundraising numbers and assumed the momentum was there, but it just was meaningless. Just because Jaime Harrison raised an absurd amount of money didn’t mean he was going to run 10 points ahead of Biden and win in SC. Dems had too high expectations.

I expect dems to lose the house in 2022 but maintain a majority in the senate, even potentially gaining a seat or two. It’s a good senate class for democrats this cycle. The only incumbents truly in danger are Hassan, Warnock, and maybe Kelly but I think he’ll get reeelcted easily.

Democrats need to do ALL they can to keep and expand on both houses!!!

[quote] I'm really tired of a vote in California not being worth as much as a vote in WY in terms of the senate

Yet you never to move to Wyoming so that you can have your vote be “worth more”. That shows the issue is not as important to you as pretend that it is.

And the Democrats had no idea that the attacks from the Refugs were coming? What a fucking bunch of naive retards they are!!!

And if a more or less sane republican runs in the general he could easily win. Trump was an anomaly, most people voted for Biden because of Trump and the rich and upper classes did the same. Something tells me that if Romney had been running against Biden he probably would have won. People were not that enthused about Biden, they just wanted Trump out. A lot of the people who voted for Trump don't usually vote at all so if a sane republican shows up they won't vote. We did very poorly on the other votes for the senate and congress so the mid-terms could be bad for us if the Democrats don't get their shit together.

[quote] And if a more or less sane republican runs in the general he could easily win. Trump was an anomaly, most people voted for Biden because of Trump and the rich and upper classes did the same.

The Democratic party becoming the party of the rich and upper classes is the problem. Of course, the GOP of old support them, because they are both corrupt. Can't believe people don't understand this.

R32, no you stupid asshole, he isn't special. He's from a very white family who've only been around each other for an entire year in an area with hyperbolic racialized information being thrown at him too quickly. There are two black students in his 120 kid school, which is just now meeting in person. He's being told these intense, media-based messages about slavery and police brutality in 3rd grade, that we learned more slowly and from historians and educators and were allowed to process.

You truly don't understand the impact your adult beliefs and actions are having on young minds. And no one cares- we are so selfish. Both on the right and left. And it's disastrous.

[quote] The Democratic party becoming the party of the rich and upper classes is the problem.

That includes the Big Tech Robber Barons, who know that the Democratic Party won’t touch them because of their huge donations to the party.

Democrats may get a lot of affluent votes, but their policies are a lot less skewed toward the wealthy than the GOP

Blame gerrymandering.....that's why Dems lose house seats even when Dems get more total votes than Republicans

[quote] A lot of the people who voted for Trump don't usually vote at all so if a sane republican shows up they won't vote.

Those are the people who had previously given up on all politicians. They were the disenfranchised ones. By sane this poster means rich and well connected.

R68, you mean like Republican mega donor and Facebook board member Peter Thiel?

Funny how the Republicans who claim to hate "big tech" so much are always on Facebook and Twitter 24/7

R71, most people who made over 100,000 a year voted for Trump

This is why they love voter suppression, because they know rich white people will show up for the GOP no matter what

[quote] Facebook board member Peter Thiel?

I knew someone would trot out the lone Mr. Thiel to try to offset all the rest. Thank you for being predictable.

[quote] most people who made over 100,000 a year voted for Trump

100,000 is considered upper middle class. Cities are becoming ridiculously expensive.

I’m concerned about the midterms. People say the Republicans are too fractured to mount a comeback. But with all these election laws they’re enacting, it does give them an advantage, in my opinion. They’re out for blood. Let’s hope Georgia elects a full slate of Dems with Stacey Abrams at the top of the ticket.

r59 Democrat here. Havent voted for a Republican in 17 years. You're just really poorly informed.

Dems, especially black and city voters, are a few percentage points more likely than their Republican counterparts to vote for President and leave the voting booth. It's as high as 2-4% normally. Ask Jon Ossoff about this. It's why he came in behind Perdue in the November election.

Trump also caused a shift in Republicans to not identify as Republicans. So no matter what percentage of "Republican voters" still voted for him, the independents are actually Republicans who vote Republicans. They voted for Biden, then split their tickets

A lot of Republican leaning voters are fed up with the party not achieving what was promised under Trump. The next Republican president will have had to convince voters the wall will actually be built, among other things.

Boris is still talking to himself.

What a fucking loser, he was discredited long ago and still hasn't answered the facts..

Put hard-working, smart, clever, and assertive people in charge of the DNC. Pandering and kumbaya talk without elbow grease is almost useless.

Tom Perez did not cut it. What is Jamie Harrison (who lost to Graham) currently doing as DNC Chair?

The RNC is ruthless, aggressive, sleazy, distorts, and has an immense, well-organized outreach to targeted voters and contributors. They are not going to be beat, alone, with big-brim church hats and dainty lunches.

Bring back James Carville, please.

More election data:

BLM was a drain on the Dem votes in my neighborhood. The House of Rep. lost several Dem seats they should have held on to. It is a shame nobody at the time had the courage to call BLM a terrorist organization for all the arson, property destruction, looting and general vandalism they were part of. George Floyd gets killed by a cop and the BLM looters get free laptops and Nikes as pay back, sure Boris, sure Snowflake....which one of you will defend that? I bet many of the BLM looters are not even registered to vote.

Until AOC and the squad can condemn the criminal BLM subset, they have as much credibility as Marjorie Taylor and her Reps who can't condemn the violence of 1/6.

Tucker Carlson has entered the chat.

Rashida Tlaib the biggest cheerleader and supporter of terrorist group HAMAS and BLM also has joined. Hey gurl!

R83 Arguments right out of Fox News. The NY Times examined the BLM marches around the country last year and found that something like 95% were peaceful and had no acts of looting or rioting, and in some cases, the protests with arrests and rioting were because people outside of BLM who had nothing to do with it joined the marches just to riot.

BLM is not a terrorist organization and didn’t directly condone violence—but people on the far right just love to use the organization as an excuse to let their racism come out. Interesting when people think BLM is a terrorist organization and don’t say a word about the Proud Boys or the 3%ers, who stormed the capitol on Jan 6.

The only thing that may be partially true is that BLM’s image may hurt Dems if the American white majority demographic is racist and Dems align with BLM. Nothing scares white people more than racial justice groups, peaceful or not. But that is due to misinformation by the right to paint BLM as an extremist group.

Calling BLM a terrorist organization would have depressed critical Black and youth turnout, potentially longterm, which would have cost Biden and other Democrats the election. Democrats need high black turnout to even stand a chance to win

[quote]Calling BLM a terrorist organization would have depressed critical Black and youth turnout

It also would have been, y'know, a lie.

Not all members of BLM are criminals, but many of the looters, arsonists, and violent felons that made up part of the BLM protests certainly are. If you cannot admit to that fact, then don't expect the far right to admit their people were part of 1/6.

R67 no one in the media is telling impressionable kids that if they're white and get too tan they'll get captured and sold into slavery.

The far left candidates WILL NOT WORK in many districts. Take mine, for example--I live in Reno but this district is basically the northern half of Nevada so a shit ton of rural land is lumped in with more liberal Reno. The Bernie crowd chose a far left DING-BAT (Patricia Ackerman) with ZERO political experience to run for the House instead of the more moderate Clint Koble, who worked in the Department of Agriculture and would've had more appeal to moderate people out in rural Nevada. I'm not saying he would've beaten the Republican, but he would've had a much better chance. Someone like AOC can thrive in liberal Queens, but not out in rural America.

And it was stupid to embrace socialism and defunding the police. We can debate the meanings of those all day long but Democrats have to understand that whatever is said WILL BE taken out of context and repeated constantly on Fox and right wing media. That's why Hillary Clinton always tried to choose her words carefully and did focus groups--she understood that very well. And maybe these younger Squad and Bernie people need to LISTEN to what people who have experience in politics and polling have to say--the James Carville's of the world may not always be correct but they are experienced and have been around the block a few times.

[quote]The Bernie crowd chose

No, primary voters chose her. By quite a large margin too - 48.9% to 22.8% for your moderate. But I guess you just want to dismiss half those primary voters because they didn't vote your candidate in? Gosh, why does that sound familiar.

Bernie and AOC will eventually kill the party of all moderates and they will be a fringe party with no clout. Criminal laws will be tightened and many wasteful socialistic programs, the ones that don't create jobs, but encourage people not to work, will be phased out.

[quote] Criminal laws will be tightened and many wasteful socialistic programs, the ones that don't create jobs, but encourage people not to work, will be phased out.

The simplest way I can put is that the rich are raiding the middle class in order to pay the poor so they can keep paying them shit wages.

^When the middle class is completely hollowed out, we'll just have a society dependent on welfare checks who make shit wages and an tiny segment of ultra rich who prioritize equity over general standard of living.

[quote]And if a more or less sane republican runs in the general he could easily win. Trump was an anomaly

Trump got more votes than any other republican candidate or democratic candidate, except Joe Biden, nobody else can get the deplorables to the polls in such big numbers than Trump.

That's why the GQP wants him to be be the face of the party.

The Rs lost the White House and the Senate and didn't get the House and yet the Ds are the ones having the autopsy? Ok....

[quote]And maybe these younger Squad and Bernie people need to LISTEN to what people who have experience in politics and polling have to say

When are people going to realize that the far left is a Trojan Horse planted inside the democratic party by the far right. AlwaysOnCamera, Tlaib, Cory, Nina Turner ... all the Berners, just like Sanders, are Russian dirty oligarch and GQP money funded saboteurs.

R98 So the majority of their party then?

Uhhh Bernie has been senator from VT for 12 years and was congressman for about 16 years before that. He's got *some experience. It's just that people who are screamers and not that bright don't want to admit that Bernie is not that radical.

[quote] And it was stupid to embrace socialism and defunding the police. We can debate the meanings of those all day long but Democrats have to understand that whatever is said WILL BE taken out of context and repeated constantly on Fox and right wing media.

Or they can be accurately quoted and clearly understood.

“Defunding police means defunding police,” the congresswoman said in a statement. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math. It does not mean moving school police officers from the NYPD budget to the Department of Education’s budget so the exact same police remain in schools.”

The Dems lost more seats in the House then ever expected. They fucked themselves with DEFUND the police. They will be losing seats until they can show they stand for law and order. Trump lost a second term all by himself. A regular Rep, like a Bush or Romney would have been elected this cycle. The GA runoff was also screwed by Trump so the Dems got lucky there too.

2022 will be here very soon.

Hopefully the Dems will hold on to power, but the far left of the party might make that impossible.

R98 None of those you named are actually far left. Except to idiot Fox News viewers, like yourself.

The Republicans lost the Senate and didn't re-take the House. They also lost the White House. They explicitly ran on law and order. So....please tell me how that means that Dems need to run like Republicans, R102?

R104 The Democrats won because of Covid. The media coverage coupled with mail in ballots. That's it. On the other hand, Trump did way better than anyone expected, getting the most votes out of any sitting president, despite the massive turnout and negative coverage.

[quote] No, primary voters chose her. By quite a large margin too - 48.9% to 22.8% for your moderate. But I guess you just want to dismiss half those primary voters because they didn't vote your candidate in? Gosh, why does that sound familiar.

Um, she lost in the general election in a big way. Bad fit for this district, which was the whole point of my post. The far left crowd also didn't like Connor Lamb in Pennsylvania, but he was a good fit for his district, which is moderate/conservative. The far left crowd are purists who don't seem to understand how to win.

[quote] [R71], most people who made over 100,000 a year voted for Trump

Because Datalounge is stuck in a time warp, where it is forever 1987, this sounds like a lot of money.. And in Darkest Flyoverstan it probably still is.

But in much of the rest of the US, it's barely middle class. And easily achieved by a bus driver who works some overtime and his administrative assistant wife.

[quote] That's why Hillary Clinton always tried to choose her words carefully and did focus groups

That's also why she lost the election.

I can tell you the exact moment too: it was when she told Sanders supporters that she was a progressive too but "a progressive who gets things done."

It sounded so unnatural coming from her, and she was so clearly pandering to younger voters with that and it only reinforced the notion that Hillary didn't believe in anything and would say whatever she thought it took to get people to vote for her whether or not she believed it, whether or not it was remotely true.

But to your point, Democrats, especially on the left, need to work with a PR team and understand that "Reform the Police" is going to be way more popular than "Defund the Police" --even if they mean the same thing.

Ditto "Social Democrat" sounds betters than "Democratic Socialist"

R45 figured out how to translate Chinese to Russian with Google Translate.

[quote] it only reinforced the notion that Hillary didn't believe in anything and would say whatever she thought it took to get people to vote for her whether or not she believed it, whether or not it was remotely true.

Otherwise known as the reality of her campaign

BOTH parties are vulnerable to the primary system, which tends to reward the candidates who are either more liberal (if Democrat) or more conservative (if Republican). That's because the more enthusiastic voters are on the fringes of their parties, not in the center. Those voters turn out for primaries. Why are 175 Republican members of the House of Representatives against a commission to investigate Jan. 6? Because they are at the EXTREME of their party - not center. I'm much prouder that AOC is a Democrat than most Republicans are proud that Marjorie Taylor Greene is a Republican. AOC has good values and principles and sticks to them, and comes well-prepared to Congressional hearings and meetings, whereas MJG stands for racism, lies, and white supremacy, and is woefully ill-equipped to legislate. But I recognize that an AOC clone is not going to win in purple districts in middle America. . I'm not sure that the national party has a method for encouraging more centrist candidates in places that are purple and discouraging candidates on the fringe, and that's a problem. I would still say that the Democratic members of the House are more centrist, overall, than they are on the fringes of the Party.. People like Ryan of Ohio, Hoyer, Sean Maloney, Connor Lamb, Katie Porter, Suzan Delbene, Adam Schiff. But centrist doesn't mean Republican-lite. Democrats have always had ideals which are considered progressive because the Republicans have shifted their center so far rightward in the past several decades, but have been mainstream for decades in Democrats. Strong support for labor, strong support for a big role of the federal government in righting the lingering effects of racism, of making sure that health care is available for everyone, not just the rich, that education is strongly funded, and science and the humanities are well-defended, that the environment is attended to, etc. These are not "fringe" positions. They are centrist positions.

[quote]Whites think they are the majority and have the right to fight back.

The problem in a nutshell. Whites are, in fact, the majority in America, by a lot. If the Dems want to be the party to shit on whites, they'll pay a huge price. If they especially want to shit on women of all colors, by doing such things as supporting the Equality Act (which is really the Trans Are Superior, Women Can Go Fuck Themelves Act), then they will pay that price much sooner.

Sometimes these threads make me feel like I'm insane because I saw a totally different campaign that the hysterical shitposters I read on here.

Joe Biden ran a very middle of the road campaign and it wasn't Covid that got him into the White House, it was everyone in America being sick of Trump.

The Rs lost the Senate because the 2 people they ran in Georgia were dumb assholes who didn't know how to run and were smacked in the face by the black vote.

Trump ran in 2016 as a moderate (he really did). He said he'd get health care for everyone and wouldn't touch Social Security or Medicare. He lied but he made promises people liked. He lost in 2020 partially because he governed as a regular Republican and most of America hates that.

Biden needs to be able to keep his message going to do well in the midterms. It also means tamping down on the far left "wokes" of the party who are constantly undermining many moderate Dems in their attempts to keep their seats. The Dems lost House seats in 2020 and if the wokes keep splitting the party apart, they Dems could lose the House majority in 2022. That would be beyond tragic.

R105. Russian troll cocksucker!

I think most of us agree with you R113

It's not all trolls either.

Remember that there are a decent number of DLers who live in small cities where everyone they know is a conservative Republican and that shapes their world view as they rarely leave their town.

Trump also won because he Wasn't Hillary and there were enough people who would have voted for a partially chewed stick of gum rather than her.

[quote]the Republican attacks against the “defund the police” movement proved more potent than Democrats ever anticipated.

Was it really the “Republican attacks” against defund the police, or was it just Defund the Police itself that made people vote R??

They can autopsy all they want—Trump made it all a referendum on white supremacy and he almost won.

2020 confirmed that almost half the country is racist, selfish, antiscience, regressive. For some reason, a lot of progressives and Democrats still don’t want to believe reality

2016 can be explained away as people not knowing How horrific Trump would be, Hillary being an extremely disliked candidate, the desire for something radically new and fresh, and arrogant Democratic overconfidence. But 2020 was an overt ratification of Trumpism by half the nation. Half the nation saw Trumpism and said, yep, I support that.

^Well then, if that means half the nation are white supremacists, then so be it! We will have to go from there.

Beating Trump with Biden does not give a green light to all the woke policies of the far left of Biden's party. The Biden admin knows this and is trying to contain the extremes of his own party because he will lose all control of Congress if he cannot do it.

PRESIDENTIAL POLLS

The polling was *broadly* accurate at the Presidential level in predicting the overall outlines of the election. Eg. the polls predicted that Biden would win the Presidency, which he did. The polls predicted Biden had the edge in Pennsylvania, Michigan & Wisconsin, which proved true. The polls showed Arizona & Georgia were competitive for the Democrats this year, which was also true. The polls showed Trump had the edge in Ohio & Iowa, which proved true. And polls showed Biden's edge in Florida dropping as Election Day grew near.

But obviously being broadly accurate isn't good enough for the polls -- they need to be more precise in predicting the margins of victory and the turnout for each party. And as in 2016, the polls underestimated the number of Trump supporters who would vote. The Presidential race was closer than expected in multiple states, particularly Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Some pollsters in particular were way off. For example, Quinnipiac often had huge margins for Biden and the Democrats that never panned out.

SENATE & HOUSE

There were a few Senate races that had good polling -- eg. polls consistently had Hicklenlooper (D) beating Gardner (R) in Colorado by a wide margin, and that's what happened. Polling also consistently gave Kelly (D) the edge over McSally (R) in Arizona, which also proved correct (although Kelly didn't win by quite as much as expected).

But the polling was definitely off in the House. Democrats were expected to pick up seats, or at least maintain the ones they had. Yet Republicans ended up picking up House seats -- even in California. I think this was the the first time since 1998 when the Dems lost House seats in CA.

So like a lot of people, I was disappointed by some of the 2020 polling. It was broadly accurate in predicting the winner of the Presidency, but definitely let the side down in a lot of places.

Broadly accurate is not good enough in polling, especially when election results are so close. Democrats thought they would have a clear majority in the Senate based on polling, but had to go to a runoff just to get to 50/50. Trump did well enough he almost stole the election. Polling failed us

PollTroll, why do you think the House polls were the ones that were off? They are smaller populations that should be able to be polled more accurately because you can actually poll a bigger proportion of the group in a House district than the country as a whole. Plus, the people running those campaigns are much closer, day to day, to the constituents they are trying to get a read on.

I still think there was something off with the actually voting in some of these races. Graham, McConnell, Collins, Tillis don't make sense. Has more come out in the last few months about how they all so spectacularly overperformed when others did not?

r80 is still pretending the Republicans won.

They haven't won in FIVE YEARS, bitch. They've been thrown out of three halls of power by the voting majority because REPUBLICANS are hated and REPUBLICANS are inferior to black church ladies and REPUBLICANS CAN'T do anything right.

When is r80 going to prove statistics of anyone leaving the Democratic Party, rather than tons of people joining it in 2020?

When is r80 going to explain why the Bombshell Montage video did NOT stop the walls from closing in on Trump's White House?

Susan Collins, Joni Ernst, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham all won by way bigger margins than were predicted by polling. Those are the real races that need to be looked at for fraud and vote stealing.

R106 So you're saying that half the voters in the Democratic primary are "far left"? The mere fact you're saying "far left" shows what an idiot you are.

[quote] Joe Biden ran a very middle of the road campaign and it wasn't Covid that got him into the White House, it was everyone in America being sick of Trump.

That was the expectation before the election, but with just fewer than 25,000 votes in three states needing to flip to re-elect Trump, it’s possible that at least that many voters voted based on Covid.

R128

I'd say far left voters (Daily Kos, etc) do dominate the process. I'm also going to bring up the elephant in the room, which may earn scorn, but here goes: several, mostly southern, states are far from "diverse" as few whites vote in Dem primaries. An electorate that's 90% black and 10% white liberal is not representative of the preferences of the country as a whole. I know the DNC would never, ever consider touching the idea, but reducing the influence of those states which have failed to help the Dem ticket for decades now would help produce a less skewed result.

Re R129, the Covid situation in WI, MI and PA did have a significant influence. Had the vaccines actually started in the autumn, he might likely have been re-elected. I'd say overall Trump fatigue was still a larger factor though.

R130 What do you think would have happened if news that the Coronavirus originated from a Chinese lab wasn't suppressed or if news of the vaccine wasn't announced the day after the election?

I think it would've made a difference if it had been more public that this virus was man-made (for "whatever" reason), debunking the "wet market animals" angle. I thought by election day vaccines were on-track? Had there been specific approvals with a high efficacy rate and a specific start date, I think those who scorn it now would've jumped on the opportunity cuz He said so. Politically, it would've help Trump, but how much against Trump fatigue? Maybe he would have carried razor thin WI, but the others still likely Biden.

The theory (for which there is not yet proof) that covid-19 escaped from a lab was repeated on an endless loop throughout right-wing media.

R130 Wow, actually blaming POC because they don't vote the way racists want. Fuck you.

R133

I've seen copies of notes/memorandum about such a virus going back a few years. Rather than recently invented, they seem leaked, or possibly available under the theory they'd never come back to haunt (bite) the authors.

R134

I respect your opinion as much as you respect mine.

[quote]I've seen copies of notes/memorandum about such a virus going back a few years.

I've seen copies of notes/memorandum about the existence of Bigfoot, that doesn't mean it's true.

The real reason Democrats don't want the Chinese leak to be true is because it would undermine their assertion that the US had the worst Covid response in the world, already debunked, and would highlight their own incompetence during the pandemic. Had the Chinese let US investigators in, we could have gotten a vaccine much quicker.

Tucker Carlson has once again entered the chat ...

R137 How would it be undermined? Even if it was a lab leak, hell even if it was a deliberate leak, that wouldn't change the fact that the Trump admin responded atrociously.

Tucker Carlson has no interest in talking to the many snowflakes on this platform. I think he has better things to do. It all comes down to who will have the bigger laugh in 2022 after the midterms, Tucker or Rachael Maddow?

The majority in the Congress is what matters and I fear the far left is making this more difficult every single day. Even Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi would agree on that.

If this is an autopsy, I'd hate to think how you'd react to actually losing the election.

[quote]several, mostly southern, states are far from "diverse" as few whites vote in Dem primaries. An electorate that's 90% black and 10% white liberal is not representative of the preferences of the country as a whole. I know the DNC would never, ever consider touching the idea, but reducing the influence of those states which have failed to help the Dem ticket for decades now would help produce a less skewed result.

The Primary process needs to be seriously overhauled. There is NO logical reason that states like Iowa and South Carolina, which have absolutely no impact on the General election, should play such an outsized role in selecting the Party's nominee. The swing states that actually choose the winner, like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin should be the first states to have their primaries. If a southern state has to be one of the first, it should be Georgia or Florida, which are much more competitive than South Carolina.

R126. Are you really that stupid? Democrats lost a bunch of House seats in 2020. Democrats lost considerably more state and local elections. See the Virginia results, for example. The DNC's work was not pristine, and I say that as a Democrat with elections and party experience. I am from Georgia. It was the Georgia runoffs that got Senate Democrats to 50.

[quote] How would it be undermined? Even if it was a lab leak, hell even if it was a deliberate leak, that wouldn't change the fact that the Trump admin responded atrociously.

If you say so, but Trump's mistakes would have only been worse had he not insisted on more transparency and didn't call for a ban on travel.

[quote] I thought by election day vaccines were on-track? Had there been specific approvals with a high efficacy rate and a specific start date, I think those who scorn it now would've jumped on the opportunity cuz He said so.

I agree with this. In addition to getting it wrong from the start, Democrats chose to politicize the virus, which probably caused a lot of vaccine skepticism.

R140 No, he likes talking to snowflakes who cry and whine about Starbucks cups and razor blade adverts.

R144 You haven't explained how attacks of his handling of the pandemic would be undermined by it being shown to be a lab leak or deliberate.

[quote] You haven't explained how attacks of his handling of the pandemic would be undermined by it being shown to be a lab leak or deliberate.

Because they cared more about political correctness than they did investigating the cause of the leak, all of which could have prevented the spread of the virus and accelerated the development of the vaccine. Not doing enough is better than no doing anything.

R146 And how could investigating the cause of the leak have helped speed up development of the vaccine?

Also, given Trump was president, how exactly did Democrats stop him doing whatever was needed to prove it was a leak? What exact role did the Democrats play in blocking this?

They won. No autopsy required.

The Dems lost in so many House seats that it was pathetic. The Dems are worried and know that 2022 may not have a good outcome, at least the sane ones left to worry.

R128 doesn't know how to read and likes to call others stupid. Okay, whatevs.

r80 It's not Tom Perez's fault that the Democratic party is stuck in a place where the forward thinking agenda alienates a good portion of voters. I'm a progressive. I believe in progressive policies. I dont think many of them are appealing to the way VOTERS think about issues. And it irritates the fuck out of me when progressives think there is a winning national constituency for their beliefs in this year....maybe later.

issues move. 20 years ago gay marriage proposition failed in California 2-1. Today, you can find Republican states that support it 2-1. Marijuana legalization too....But the AOC crowd has no idea how toxic some of their ideas are to voters (the people who actually vote).

I agree with what R152 said. I am a progressive/leftie too in many ways, but the most vocal among them tend to turn off middle America because they are too strident and rigid sometimes, not to mention they are very clubby and elitist--calling somebody like Elizabeth Warren a corporatist is totally ridiculous because she said something nice about Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton. That kind of behavior is childish and only tends to piss off the people like me. Also, there is something to be said for experience in government/politics--a millennial like AOC still has a lot to learn from people with experience like Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden.

R152/R153 -- what you are describing is the effect of Twitter and other social media that allow AOC and left-leaning journos to believe there is far more support for their ideas than there actually is.

R151 Go on then, explain it. You said "The Bernie crowd chose" her, and yet she won with almost half the vote. So which is it? That half the primary voters are "far left" and the "Bernie crowd"? Or that you were wrong in saying that?

And again, the mere fact you're describing people as "far left" just suggests you're an idiot who doesn't know what "far left" actually means. Why don't you give us some examples of these "far left" policies?

[quote] Team AOC needs to hire a marketing firm and learn why "Reform the Police" is much better than "Defund the Police" or "Abolish the Police"

But they want the police abolished.

Did you read my first post R155? I thought I was very clear. My district (Nevada's 4th) is comprised of the top half of the state. In a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, most of those people voting will come from Reno because it's more liberal. The people out in the rural sticks generally are mostly Republicans and wouldn't vote in a Democratic Primary. Reno has a lot of Far Left Bernie types, I know because I've talked to a lot of them. They chose Patricia Ackerman in a primary over the more moderate Democrat Clint Koble who would've had more appeal to ranchers and people in the rural part of the district in a GENERAL ELECTION that may not be pleased with the Republican. Do you not understand the difference between primary and general elections???? And he had GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE in the Department of Agriculture, something that would also have sway with rural voters in a GENERAL ELECTION. She had NO GOVERNMENT EXPERIENCE. I already explained this before, are you retarded or just an asshole troll?

We all know what the far left agenda is, if you're too stupid to know I suggest you learn to use a search engine.

[quote] And how could investigating the cause of the leak have helped speed up development of the vaccine?

The answer to this should be obvious.

R158 Then state the obvious. And answer what I asked in R148 too.

R157 So now you live in the fourth district? Funny how it was the second district earlier on. Losing track of your bullshit?

I asked a very simple question of whether you were actually suggesting that half the voters in the Democratic primary were "far left" members of the "Bernie crowd". Seems you're the one having trouble reading posts properly, given I never mentioned the general.

And no, don't try and worm your way out. Name some of the policies that were being promoted that are "far left". We all know why you won't.

[quote]a millennial like AOC still has a lot to learn from people with experience like Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden.

Millennials know everything. And don't tell them otherwise, because then you're not allowing them to live "their truth".

FAKE NEWS @ r127.

ALL those Republicans' wins were within the margins of error of their polls by A-rated pollsters, just like Trump's victory in 2016.

r127 is just a lying piece of shit who dismisses every poll unless it shows a Republican winning.

Read the proof and ignore the troll r127 and all his sock puppets in this thread.

Read how absolutely certain r127 was that Trump would win Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia because Trafalgar polling said so and Trump voters "won't admit it in polls."

BIDEN OWNED ALL OF THOSE STATES.

But you got nothing but cheerleading and plugging for Trafalgar's polls all throughout 2020 from r127.

R163 New person jumping in here... Biden did not OWN Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Georgia. Polling showed Biden leading by more than 10 points in PA and Wisconsin. He won PA by 1.5%, Wisconsin by less than 1%, and GA & AZ came down to .3% of the vote.

Remember r127 lying his little vagina off in the "Race Is Far From Over" thread?

The jackassery starts @ Reply 10.

[quote]2 Words: Trafalgar Group

[quote]One of the MOST accurate pollsters in 2016 and 2018, shows Joe's lead within the MOE in several key swing states.

[quote]Latest PA results show Biden plus 2 in PA... MOE is 2.97 percent. This poll was released only a few days ago.

[quote]Other Trafalgar recent results show =- Arizona Trump plus 4, Florida Trump plus 2, Ohio Trump plus 4,

[quote]and.........Wisconsin Biden plus 2, Michigan Biden plus 2 - Well within the MOE.

[quote]Dismiss Trafalgar all you want, but they were one of the most accurate pollsters in the 2016 election - and even in 2018.

😂🤣😂🤣 LOL!!!!! 😂🤣😂🤣

Three Words: BORIS FAIL #871,501,387,051,832,570,198,375 😂🤣😂🤣

r164 = Same person, new sock puppet there

Well that’s including all the cheating Dump and his minions did in those states. I’ll bet that’s why the Repugs are so certain that their cheating did not succeed.

r164 is lying and referring to only a fringe of trash pollsters.

Sucks to be a naive, lying Nazi.

A WIN IS A WIN AND THE POLLS SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE BIDEN CITY SINCE 2016, BITCH!

IT'S NOW BIDEN CITY, SO STFU YOU LYING PIECE OF SHIT.

Biden's wins in the swing states were SO much bigger than Trump's in 2016.

Trump won the presidency by only the slimmest of margins.

Democrats WON.

Democrats kept the House, took over the White House and then the Senate..

Boris's lies will never diminish that. There's just not enough white trash suckers in America, even with their postal, gerrymandering and electoral college cheats.

Republicans have lost the working class. Because they're really just fat cat, tax-hating, elitist, commercial predators who couldn't fool enough white trash with their cons a second time.

BOO HOO!

^^^HA HA!^^^

R171 You are a sucker yourself if you think the Democrats today are on the side of the working class.

r173 pays and fellates the Republican Party to block working class stimulus, unemployment and tax penalties for outsourcing U.S. jobs overseas.

Hook line and SUCKER!

An anti-Israel pro-TQ+ agenda is not a winning one.

R158 is just full of shit. We had the entire genetic code of the covid 19 virus in 2019. Because of that, we had the vaccines in February of 2020. The next ten months was spent testing those vaccines.

R176 Please provide a link. I didn't read one story about any untested vaccines except for the Sputnik one.

r176 is correct, the phase 1 study of the mRNA vaccine started in February, 2020.

Thanks, R178.

R177, can you even read? Who said anything about untested vaccines?

R165 at least one of the quotes you have there is from me...and I'm not the droid you are looking for.

Ha, willing to believe conspiracy theories about lab leaks, but demands proof for the widely available fact that vaccine development started early in 2020.

Vaccine development actually started years ago when Covid hit in the aughts. It's why pharma was able to get it done so fast...they had years of research to draw upon rather than start from scratch.

I am exhausted trying to explain and justify AOC's strange sense of entitlement and desire to do away with the police, give away more tax dollars to people who don't work (but can work) and the list goes on. Now with her unwavering support of Hamas it is too much. Many people I know are Independents and Moderate Dems and they just are turned off by her and I can no longer defend her lunacies.

It is also tiring for someone to reply what about all the corporate welfare, well yes, but I am not one to replace it with individual social welfare. Let's get rid of as much welfare for corps and people and keep it to the minimum but AOC doesn't want to hear that.

The weird part is if you don't adhere to all of the progressive policies, even if you are a liberal democrat you get called right-wing. It is black and white thinking which used to be the domain of narcissists and 3-year-olds but progressive and far-right people seem to be black and white thinkers. It's always my way or the highway.

[quote] Ha, willing to believe conspiracy theories about lab leaks, but demands proof for the widely available fact that vaccine development started early in 2020.

It's not a conspiracy theory. Fauci admitted that we need to study the origins of the virus. And transmission data is needed to understand the efficacy rate. So if China was suppressing the numbers while Covid was wreaking havoc, that is obviously a huge problem. There is also the matter that if China was suppressing the origin of the virus, they were also suppressing infection rate data. All this could have delayed vaccine development. Also if the virus is man made, then there would have been a lot more international pressure to close off China's borders, which would have mitigated the spread.

R185, we had the genetic code of the virus in late 2019 and had coded the vaccines by January 2020 and started testing them in February 2020. This was revolutionary science that will change the world. What the fuck do you keep going on about?

Here, start educating yourself to the world of scientific reality...

R185 Even if I were to grant all your bullshit premises - and I don't - but if I play along with it - why didn't Trump do anything about it all then? What exact power is it that the Democrats prevented him from exercising which stopped him from doing whatever it is you're claiming would've changed things?

R183 So you're one of those people who claims to mostly vote Democrat and yet constantly uses right wing talking points?

R160 needs to take her meds and lie down. I made a mistake and said the 4th district when I meant 2nd. Jesus fucking christ, take a chill pill.

And R160 Far left policies that were endorsed by Patricia Ackerman = medicare for all and free college. Is that good enough 4 u, hon? Can you settle yourself now?

R165 needs to get her shit together. I’m R127, and not one of the quotes she has assembled was written by me. I may sue for slander.

R190 Neither of those are far left. You really think "far left" policies would leave things like private healthcare and private education intact? Far left policies would be talking about the nationalisation of healthcare and education as a starting point. This is why you need to lay off the Fox News.

R189 Sure, who doesn't mix up the district they live in. Deciding not to address the other points though?

[quote] What exact power is it that the Democrats prevented him from exercising which stopped him from doing whatever it is you're claiming would've changed things?

I'm not trying to give Trump extra credit here. I'm simply saying that Democratic messaging was off. They made Covid their top priority. Kamala Harris said that Trump's handling of the crisis was disqualifying but when you read about the facts, it turns out the Democratic response would have been just as bad, if not worse in some regards.

Biden has shown the way.

The Deplorables do not care about policy when they are voting. They care about sticking it to the pretentious, smart pants libs. This is class warfare, but it is social class rather than economic.

Democrats need to realize that our rockstars may energize our base, but they also energize their base. We need to hire someone boring and relatable if we want progressive policies.

[quote] This is class warfare, but it is social class rather than economic.

What does this mean? We do have class warfare. The entire media establishment is basically a conglomerate of multi billion dollar companies who dictate the news. Independent journalism exists only in places like Youtube or Rumble.

[quote]but when you read about the facts, it turns out the Democratic response would have been just as bad, if not worse in some regards

Such as?

I'm pretty sure that had Hillary Clinton been President in 2020, she would not have told the US public that COVID was going away, and would never be a problem for the US. Nor would she have prevented public health officials from sounding the alarm earlier in regard to locking down and social distancing. It is widely understood by public health epidemiologists that Trump's inept response and messaging led to a minimum of 400,000 deaths over what would have happened had someone else who took the pandemic more seriously been in charge. I grant that the initial messaging on masks was poorly handled by both the CDC and the administration. We weren't informed until too late that the REASON for the messaging was not the ineffectiveness of masks but the fact that the supplies of masks was so shockingly low, leaving hospital and health workers unable to protect themselves and their patients. There are still MANY people in our country arguing that masks are ineffective based on that early messaging, which is tragic.

[quote] It is widely understood by public health epidemiologists that Trump's inept response and messaging led to a minimum of 400,000 deaths over what would have happened had someone else who took the pandemic more seriously been in charge.

No one had a magic wand to reduce the death total by that much. If we had had 400,000 fewer deaths, our resulting death rate then would have been less than half the death rate of many of the countries in Europe, so it’s a ludicrous fantasy.

r166 I was new to the thread but I definitely remember you. Cant make heads or tails of your worthless analysis. I'm sure as you know, there were polls showing Biden leading in high double digits in Wisconsin and low double digits in PA. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with but you seem unhinged.

r198, we had the models of South Korea and Taiwan to guide us. (And their death rate has been very low compared to us). Likewise Australia and New Zealand have been very successful in keeping the death rate low. Europe was nearly as fucked up as the US in its response so it is not the place to look for to compare.

Comparing to Europe is exactly what we need to do to compare apples to apples. It’s absurd for anyone to pull 400,000 out of their ass and say we could have fantastically done that much better than our peer group.

Excuse me, but masks (no matter the degree of filtration) does, in fact, help. If it did not-most health professionals and lab workers wouldn’t bother with it. The problem is people are stupid. Any effort that may reduce infection is a good thing.

One possible reason why other countries initially kept their infection rates low is because they are not stupid and immature as most Americans. Those citizens simply complied with what authorities told them to do and did not see it as a political and partisan issue. Americans are fat and stupid.

[quote] It is widely understood by public health epidemiologists that Trump's inept response and messaging led to a minimum of 400,000 deaths over what would have happened had someone else who took the pandemic more seriously been in charge.

I had to laugh the widely understood part. It reads so much like propaganda.

I believe that President Hillary would not have thrown out the Obama/Biden Pandemic mobilization book. She would have built on it. According to past Democratic responses, cruise ships' passengers would have been quarantined, The Pacific Northwest and the North east would have been shut down, PPE would have been provided in quantity as needed and masking would have been mandatory. Just like the Ebola sequestration, it might not have spread to the entire country before vaccine development, which we now know had been going on for a decade with corona viruses.

[quote]It reads so much like propaganda.

Like your post history then?

R204 doesn't understand that epidemiological modeling is something that exists. Moron.

Bad losers AND bad winners.

Had Hillary been president she would have supported Cuomo and Pelosi by also encouraging people to ride the NYC subway and attended San Francisco Chinatown celebrations. And MSNBC would have swooned over her leadership.

I’m a bit surprised that we don’t see much of Hillary these days. I would have thought she’d be appointed to something. That would definitely launched the Repugs in another direction.

Hillary or not good for Democrats

[quote] I’m a bit surprised that we don’t see much of Hillary these days. I would have thought she’d be appointed to something.

I think it’s just Biden wanting to avoid scandals and corruption.

The bluest town in 2012 to flip red in 2016 was Northumberland in Coös County, NH:

2012 Pres: Obama+25.3

2016 Pres: Trump+15.3

2020 Pres: Trump+18.0

Obama won union voters in WI MI And OH by 33 33 and 23 in 2012.

By 2016 that margin dropped to 10 13 and Minus 13 in Ohio.

Biden in 2020 saw plus 19 plus 25 and Minus 12 in those three states.

Trump's Trade immigration and drug race resentment talk resonated in the Midwest.

All the republican governors are going down to the border. There is going to be a blitz from the repugs about the immigrants. Just in time for the elections

No one wants these immigrants living near them. Nor do they like WEAK politicians

R215, your xenophobia is not welcome in the Democratic Party. Begone

[quote] Excuse me, but masks (no matter the degree of filtration) does, in fact, help. If it did not-most health professionals and lab workers wouldn’t bother with it. The problem is people are stupid. Any effort that may reduce infection is a good thing

R202 is right. Masks do work. Japan had a strict mask policy and the state of Florida had no policy. Florida's Covid rates (cases and deaths) are more than DOUBLE that of the entire country of Japan. And Japan has a population almost SIX times higher than Florida

Florida - 3,620,106 (cases) and 55,622 (deaths) - population = 21.48 million

Japan - 1,707,500 (cases) and 17,807 (deaths) - population = 125.8 MILLION

I also compared the rates in the school districts around Atlanta. The schools that required masks had lower rates than the schools who didn't require masks

It's that simple. Masks work

I almost wish these so-called news networks would stop advertising COVID deaths since they are hard core MAGATs. That punk Chris Cuomo had the FUCKING NERVE to argue against profit-making “news” channels. This of all things while on fucking CNN! Does this genuine eye-talian know his ass is pimping?