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Theatre Gossip #401 - The "Finishing the Hate" Edition

Moving on from Audrey's tits with a brief detour to Muff-Diving Mary Martin (the lesbians must be loving these threads), we continue...

by Anonymousreply 600September 15, 2020 8:28 PM

The previous thread...

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by Anonymousreply 1September 2, 2020 6:06 PM

Muff-Diving Mary would have been a better title, OP.

by Anonymousreply 2September 2, 2020 6:15 PM

WE SEE YOU WHITE MUFF DIVING MARY MARTIN

by Anonymousreply 3September 2, 2020 6:26 PM

I got chills watching the finale of the original Broadway Chorus Line. Thank you for posting that!

by Anonymousreply 4September 2, 2020 6:47 PM

WE SEE YOU WHITE PEOPLE WHO SEE WHITE MARY MARTIN!!!

by Anonymousreply 5September 2, 2020 9:06 PM

If a piece of shit like SLAVE PLAY wins Best Play, it proves there was no need to even have an awards ceremony in a truncated season.

by Anonymousreply 6September 2, 2020 9:42 PM

So is Tonya Pinkins the Black Mary Martin?

by Anonymousreply 7September 2, 2020 9:48 PM

Thanks to whoever posted the full A Chorus Line in the previous thread. Even though it was grainy and herky-jerky it was great to see it again. I always forget how funny it can be, given a cast who knows how to deliver those lines.

by Anonymousreply 8September 2, 2020 9:49 PM

R7. I think she’s more the Black Elaine Stritch—talented, for sure, but so difficult to work with that you think twice about whether it’s worth it.

I get the feeling that Martin wasn’t difficult to work with, and used Halliday to handle anything that would make her seem like a diva. I think she kept a professional distance and concentrated on the work. A friend was one of the Lost Boys in one of her Peter Pan productions (I don’t know if it was stage or television) and said she was wonderful to the children in the cast.

by Anonymousreply 9September 2, 2020 10:20 PM

Great title, OP! Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 10September 2, 2020 10:28 PM

[quote] One thing I have never understood is why the movie of Chorus Line defeated Michael Bennett, who tried to come up with a way to film it but gave up. Why not just put the show on stage? Would it really not have worked?

It wasn't so much that the movie defeated him as it was that he felt lost in Hollywood. He perhaps expected a certain level of deference he wasn't getting and the time to work on things, but mostly it was that he was a medium-small sized fish in a big pond as opposed to Broadway where he was King of a very small town.

by Anonymousreply 11September 2, 2020 10:53 PM

[quote] A couple of years later, Fosse called. He wanted her to, essentially, play Gwen in All That Jazz, but first to go into “Chicago” replacing Reinking as Roxie & finishing out the run. She turned him down flat, but eventually relented and agreed to do the film but not go into “Chicago.”

I always wondered why she did All That Jazz when she had decided to give up show business. Maybe she felt she owed Bob a favor for letting her out of A Chorus Line. (Not that he couldn't have filled the role with someone else, and Leland was not a "name," but she was damn good in All That Jazz and should have scored a supporting nomination, certainly over Jane Alexander saying three lines in Kramer vs. Kramer.

by Anonymousreply 12September 2, 2020 10:56 PM

Tonya Pinkins is the black Jerry Lewis.

by Anonymousreply 13September 2, 2020 11:00 PM

Tony Pinkins is the black Paz De La Huerta

by Anonymousreply 14September 2, 2020 11:06 PM

No, R12. No, no, no.

by Anonymousreply 15September 2, 2020 11:21 PM

Somethin's Happ'nin' (Baby! Baby!)

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by Anonymousreply 16September 2, 2020 11:37 PM

Wow, that song at R16 is horrible. I guess you had to be there.

Did Danny Apolinar die of AIDS? Obit from '95 says kidney failure.

by Anonymousreply 17September 2, 2020 11:51 PM

Watching this right now and it's quite fun...

Cagney & Lacey

TODAY, ON DECAD 2.2, 1 HR 1986

SEASON 5 • EPISODE 19 • EXIT STAGE CENTER • CRIME DRAMA / POLICE

*

An investigation of an actress's apparent suicide reveals several murder suspects; Cagney makes an interesting date; Harvey reveals a secret from his past to Lacey. Chet Gardner: Peter Hansen. Jean McIntyre: Salome Jens. Eric Webber: Robin Thomas...

by Anonymousreply 18September 3, 2020 12:25 AM

Going back to Leland Palmer and ACL, there's a slight mistake in timeline. Palmer agreed to go into ACL towards the end of the LA run. Reinking had already played LA when McKechnie wanted to go back to NY. Ironically, she also played next to Kelly Bishop who was briefly replacing Charlene Ryan who was getting a boob job. When McKechnie bowed out of NY, Reinking returned and Vicki Frederick was brought to LA. When Vicki left, that's when they asked Palmer. During the time she was supposed to play the part, the understudy, Renata Vasselle played Cassie. Palmer then did Jules Pfeiffer's Hold Me across town at the Westwood Playhouse, while she was supposed to be played Cassie. Strange.

by Anonymousreply 19September 3, 2020 12:32 AM

Bennett's concept of the movie was to have people auditioning for the movie, the same as the documentary. It sounded dreadful.

by Anonymousreply 20September 3, 2020 12:33 AM

I too think ACL could work on film as is. However, some songs like "At the Ballet" and "I Can Do That," for example, could be done more cinematically, showing flashbacks in a montage or something, as they're retelling their childhoods.

by Anonymousreply 21September 3, 2020 1:58 AM

Now that people have worked out how to film plays, like the NT Live ones and Hamilton, they could easily do justice to a live staging of A Chorus Line.

Nothing will ever equal hearing that first blare of the brass live, but you can't capture everything that is great about live theatre.

by Anonymousreply 22September 3, 2020 11:03 AM

So Julianne Moore is almost 60 and Ben Platt is almost 27. Not a great start.

by Anonymousreply 23September 3, 2020 11:10 AM

"Nothing will ever equal hearing that first blare of the brass live, but you can't capture everything that is great about live theatre."

Like the rattling of plastic bags or candy wrappers, audience members who think that musicals are sing alongs, people who tap to the rhythm or kick your seat to the music, women who attend matinees and proceed to talk throughout the whole show , or old men who can;t hear and say," What did he say,?" constantly. But yes, I miss it too.

by Anonymousreply 24September 3, 2020 12:11 PM

Is it possible Evan Hansen is being reconceived as a story about a college student? None of these ages make much sense.

by Anonymousreply 25September 3, 2020 12:23 PM

I've been on a bit of a Howard Ashman kick after watching the Disney+ documentary, and ended up wasting time watching a documentary on the making of the London staging of Beauty and the Beast.

It was the first show I saw in the West End, and remember thinking that even then as an impressionable sixteen year-old that it was trash. But considering that this was that show that launched Disney on Broadway, that enjoyed a run of over 5,000 performances and a slew of international performances, why is it that Robert Jess Roth never did much else of note? Was Lestat such a travesty that it ruined his career? Everybody else who's directed a Broadway show for Disney - even the flops like Francesca Zambello - seem to have maintained much more illustrious careers.

by Anonymousreply 26September 3, 2020 3:23 PM

[quote]Now that people have worked out how to film plays, like the NT Live ones and Hamilton, they could easily do justice to a live staging of A Chorus Line. Nothing will ever equal hearing that first blare of the brass live, but you can't capture everything that is great about live theatre.

I agree with you about live theater, but "blaring brass" is not what we hear the first time the orchestra comes in at the top of ACL. That doesn't happen till a little later.

[quote]Is it possible Evan Hansen is being reconceived as a story about a college student? None of these ages make much sense.

I hope not. I don't think the peer pressure that's such a huge element of the plot of DEH would work with college students.

[quote]Considering that this was that show that launched Disney on Broadway, that enjoyed a run of over 5,000 performances and a slew of international performances, why is it that Robert Jess Roth never did much else of note? Was Lestat such a travesty that it ruined his career?

I think, with BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, he was viewed as someone who could pretty much recreate the movie on stage, which maybe is what Disney thought they wanted at the time. But for all its success with the public, that show got largely negative reviews. Then, with the phenomenal success of THE LION KING as directed by Taymor, I think Disney wanted to continue finding directors who would be more creative. But also, I had forgotten that RJR directed LESTAT. That certainly can't have helped his career. I think he needed at least one solid hit as a follow up to BEAUTY AND THE BEAST to keep him working steadily, not a tremendous flop.

by Anonymousreply 27September 3, 2020 4:02 PM

So who's looking forward to the Boys in the Band movie? I've already been reading comments on other forums from people saying they have no desire to sit through all that self-loathing. Is that fair or should it just be viewed as a product of its time?

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by Anonymousreply 28September 3, 2020 4:38 PM

Just see the original. Friedkin's direction is wound too tightly, but the actors are brilliant and they all lived this era. You will never again see it so beautifully acted.

by Anonymousreply 29September 3, 2020 5:04 PM

[quote]So who's looking forward to the Boys in the Band movie? I've already been reading comments on other forums from people saying they have no desire to sit through all that self-loathing. Is that fair or should it just be viewed as a product of its time?

It should be viewed by anyone who's interested in seeing a new production of a groundbreaking play first produced in 1968. If you're too sensitive to withstand characters who exhibit some self-loathing, then don't watch. The complaints about its being too dated and too offensive for woke modern audiences have become tiresome.

by Anonymousreply 30September 3, 2020 5:07 PM

The far-left (aka SJWs) are really stupid! They can't enjoy anything unless it is adhered and defanged to their content Why are we letting these people run Broadway... and Hollywood?

by Anonymousreply 31September 3, 2020 5:16 PM

[quote]The complaints about its being too dated and too offensive for woke modern audiences have become tiresome.

Also, those complaints about the self-loathing of the characters in THE BOYS IN THE BAND have been voiced ever since the play opened, and have been discussed ad infinitum over the years, especially after the first movie version was released. So to rehash them now is, indeed, very tiresome.

by Anonymousreply 32September 3, 2020 5:23 PM

I understand the period/self-loathing, but I never understood why any of these men would want to get together for a party because they are all so mean-spirited and awful. At least in a play like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, there is a balance with the younger couple dealing with two angry hosts. BITB is just a bunch of assholes who inexplicably want to hang out.

by Anonymousreply 33September 3, 2020 6:04 PM

ACL is what is. It will never be a smash hit again and never be transcribed to the movies. What you see from 1975 is the best we will get because it was a show in a moment. Any revival has proven how dated it is and how poorly written it is. Bennett's staging and pacing were always the best things about it but his choreography was among the worst things.

It had a story to tell during the 70s. It told it and we moved on. Quickly.

by Anonymousreply 34September 3, 2020 6:27 PM

I've always felt like Boys in the Band is the night where all the characters realize that their host is an awful human being that they can't stand to be around anymore. If we're being truthful, a lot of us have hung out with someone like that more than a few times in our lives because, perhaps, we have mutual friends and we're only attending a party to see them. I don't find any of the characters very hateful except for the lead. He's the real monster. I always got the feeling that, at the end of the play, everyone else continued to hang out, but the lead was left alone.

I really don't see anything ever being the same between all these people.

I, too, mourn the fact that we can't see shows about people who are flawed and sometimes hateful, because a bunch of idiots believe the creators of these shows are trying to say that bitterness and hate are good things. I can't imagine anyone walking out of The Boys in the Band and thinking "man, that lead character...what a life. I wanna be just like him." If anything, it's a cautionary tale to not be such a bitter, self-loathing cunt.

by Anonymousreply 35September 3, 2020 6:39 PM

R35 SJWs lack critical thinking skills.

by Anonymousreply 36September 3, 2020 6:53 PM

Don’t forget Robert Jess Roth was also fired from Aida out of town

by Anonymousreply 37September 3, 2020 7:49 PM

[quote] Maybe she felt she owed Bob a favor for letting her out of A Chorus Line.

Wrong director. Michael Bennett let her out of Chorus Line, not Fosse.

by Anonymousreply 38September 4, 2020 12:01 AM

Blind item: Which highly anticipated musical now has no general management team?

by Anonymousreply 39September 4, 2020 12:57 AM

[quote] Blind item: Which highly anticipated musical now has no general management team?

Hazel? Rebecca?

by Anonymousreply 40September 4, 2020 12:59 AM

MJ or Mrs. Doubtfire, I'd guess.

by Anonymousreply 41September 4, 2020 1:01 AM

[quote]Blind item: Which highly anticipated musical now has no general management team?

Diana: The Musical. Since Harry and Megs joined Netflix, they put the halt on filming it.

by Anonymousreply 42September 4, 2020 1:19 AM

Did anyone see the Richard Armitage "The Crucible"? It seems a bit...over the top.

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by Anonymousreply 43September 4, 2020 1:24 AM

Who are the people behind Diana? It just screams vanity project

by Anonymousreply 44September 4, 2020 8:06 AM

SJWs go to events to find something that offends them, then announce it on social media. It gives their life purpose.

by Anonymousreply 45September 4, 2020 11:52 AM

Everything about me screamed vanity project.

by Anonymousreply 46September 4, 2020 12:28 PM

It's clear early on in BITB that these guys are all "friends of Harold," not a tight-knit group of old chums. Some knew each other, some didn't. Seems like a sound premise to me.

by Anonymousreply 47September 4, 2020 12:28 PM

Any kind soul out there have copies of the Verdon or Annie - Life After Tomorrow docs to share?

by Anonymousreply 48September 4, 2020 2:51 PM

[quote] Wrong director. Michael Bennett let her out of Chorus Line, not Fosse.

Duh. Can't believe I did that. Ooops.

by Anonymousreply 49September 4, 2020 6:30 PM

Keep your choreographers straight, r49. So to speak.

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by Anonymousreply 50September 4, 2020 6:36 PM

Garth Drabrinsky paid four songwriting times to write sample songs for Ragtime. We know who won but does anybody remember who the others were? Are there any recordings of their work for the show?

by Anonymousreply 51September 4, 2020 6:39 PM

^ songwriting teams, not times. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 52September 4, 2020 6:46 PM

I think Maltby and Shire were one of the teams. Don't know about the others.

by Anonymousreply 53September 4, 2020 6:50 PM

R48 Gwen is on my mega hard drive sorry, but here is Life After Tomorrow.

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by Anonymousreply 54September 4, 2020 6:57 PM

Jesus, what an exhausting number...

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by Anonymousreply 55September 4, 2020 7:00 PM

Shirley is an exhausting woman.

by Anonymousreply 56September 4, 2020 7:09 PM

R51 Garth Drabinsky otherwise known as Drab Garbinsky; he was the guy at Cineplex Odeon (a/k/a Cineplex Odious) who used to charge you if you asked for a cup for a drink of water

by Anonymousreply 57September 4, 2020 7:19 PM

IIRC, there were no water fountains in The Ford Center. If you were thirsty, you had to buy bottled water at the concession stand in the lobby.

by Anonymousreply 58September 4, 2020 7:24 PM

The show with no general manager is probably a Rudin show. Maybe the ad agency isn't the only one fighting to get paid?

by Anonymousreply 59September 4, 2020 8:12 PM

Aurelia Minnelli

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by Anonymousreply 60September 4, 2020 8:24 PM

[quote]It's clear early on in BITB that these guys are all "friends of Harold," not a tight-knit group of old chums.

Right. Very early on, before anyone else arrives, Donald asks Michael who's coming to the party, and Michael says (among other things), "I think you know most of them." Which makes it clear that they're not a tight-knit group, at least, not most of them.

[quote]Garth Drabinsky otherwise known as Drab Garbinsky.

I never heard that nickname for him. The one I always heard was "Darth Grabinsky," which was great because it captured both his evil nature (Dart Vader) and his greed ("grab"-insky).

by Anonymousreply 61September 5, 2020 12:09 AM

[quote]Right. Very early on, before anyone else arrives, Donald asks Michael who's coming to the party, and Michael says (among other things), "I think you know most of them." Which makes it clear that they're not a tight-knit group, at least, not most of them.

No. What that statement makes clear(er) is that Donald is the only one at the party who does not live in New York City. He drives in for his weekly therapy and then he stays over and spends the night with Michael. This particular night, Harold's birthday is is intruding on their usual evening together.

by Anonymousreply 62September 5, 2020 1:12 AM

But, R62, Michael also tells Donald that "they're mostly Harold's friends." Although I will concede that Harold certainly has an unusual assortment of dissimilar friends.

by Anonymousreply 63September 5, 2020 1:17 AM

But, R62, Michael also tells Donald that "they're mostly Harold's friends." Although I will concede that Harold certainly has an unusual assortment of dissimilar friends.

by Anonymousreply 64September 5, 2020 1:17 AM

^^ Sorry. I have no idea why that posted twice.

by Anonymousreply 65September 5, 2020 1:19 AM

No. That statement says nothing about whether the others haven't met or are as thick as thieves. Donald could have met each of them individually, or he could have met them at one big gathering. But that line does not tell us how Donald met them and it does not tell us if the others know each other, or not. It serves to underscore Donald's outsider status. And that suggests that the others may be acquainted. Donald is apprehensive about fitting in and meeting new people. Michael tells him to relax and that his fears are misplaced. After all, Donald already knows most of them.

by Anonymousreply 66September 5, 2020 1:25 AM

You're welcome r8 and even though quality was pretty shitty those were the best characterizations I've seen. I appreciated each of them on a new level after seeing the original cast.

by Anonymousreply 67September 5, 2020 1:27 AM

[Quote] I don't find any of the characters very hateful except for the lead. He's the real monster.

Agreed. Who comes away from Boys in the Band thinking that Donald is awful? Or Bernard?

by Anonymousreply 68September 5, 2020 1:37 AM

Just so everyone’s on the same page, the line is:

“I think you know everybody anyway — they’re the same old tired fairies you’ve seen around since the day one”

by Anonymousreply 69September 5, 2020 1:42 AM

I have mp3s somewhere of the Original Cast album. Were there any major line deletions for the movie?

by Anonymousreply 70September 5, 2020 1:44 AM

Speaking of Mrs. Doubtfire here's a little snippet I came across on YT.

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by Anonymousreply 71September 5, 2020 2:08 AM

It never ceases to amaze me how the theatre gossip thread will just drop off my watch list and yet threads I purposely remove will keep popping back up.

by Anonymousreply 72September 5, 2020 2:08 AM

[Quote] It never ceases to amaze me how the theatre gossip thread will just drop off my watch list

Are you a fan of FOLLIES?

by Anonymousreply 73September 5, 2020 2:10 AM

[quote]^^ Sorry. I have no idea why that posted twice.

Welcome to DL! Let us know when you hit your first triple.

by Anonymousreply 74September 5, 2020 2:22 AM

Dear God, that Mrs. Doubtfire clip is horrible.

by Anonymousreply 75September 5, 2020 2:23 AM

FOLLIES!

by Anonymousreply 76September 5, 2020 2:31 AM

That Mrs. Doubtfire clip is why I'm sorta glad Broadway is taking a break. Maybe it'll give them a long time to sit in a corner and think about what they've done. That was painful.

by Anonymousreply 77September 5, 2020 2:33 AM

I didn't think it was so bad.

Looks like I've got a lot to learn.

Can someone name some contemporary shows that you like so I can get an idea what good Broadway looks like?

I'm not kidding btw. Just started getting into these shows during lockdown.

by Anonymousreply 78September 5, 2020 2:48 AM

Ya want FOLLIES???

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by Anonymousreply 79September 5, 2020 2:51 AM

You'll never get anyone to agree on a contemporary show that is good. I would recommend Dear Evan Hansen. It's very good; very touching. From a while back, I'd go with Next to Normal.

by Anonymousreply 80September 5, 2020 2:52 AM

Thanks r80

I saw Waitress at the beginning of shutdown it was floating around YT with the original cast. It was not a great recording but not horrible either. I really liked it, Sara Barielles did a great job with the music lots of fun tunes and a great cast. Jesse Mueller leaves me a little cold though. Her vocals were great and physically she did everything well, her chemistry with Dr. Pom was great, but I didn't get choked up for her as Jenna.

Also saw School of Rock which was really fun. And someone here posted She Loves Me and that was also well cast and a lot of fun. My first time seeing Jane Krakowski do her musical theater thing.

I can't tell about Mrs. Doubtfire from just one clip. I enjoyed it but I'd need to see how it fits in and feels with the rest of the show to know if the show is shit or not.

by Anonymousreply 81September 5, 2020 3:16 AM

Everyone in the Mrs. Doubtfire clip is YELLING EVERY FUCKING LINE

by Anonymousreply 82September 5, 2020 4:06 AM

[quote]Everyone in the Mrs. Doubtfire clip is YELLING EVERY FUCKING LINE

I don't see the problem.

by Anonymousreply 83September 5, 2020 4:09 AM

That is the modern style. Dynamics died long ago and is sadly missed by those of us who knew it once.

I just saw the new biopic of Helen Reddy (don't bother). In the scene where she's recording I Don't Know How to Love Him, everyone at the (deeply unprofessional) studio is obviously bored until she gets to the bridge and it gets loud. Then they all look up and congratulate each other that she's gonna be great. It really struck me that that was exclusively 2020 speaking. In the 1970s people appreciated the way she modulated the whole thing.

by Anonymousreply 84September 5, 2020 6:14 AM

I’d say that The Band’s Visit was the last great contemporary musical

by Anonymousreply 85September 5, 2020 9:59 AM

R84 do they discuss Reddy’s tendency to sing off-key? Jesus, I remember how she sometimes made my ears hurt.

by Anonymousreply 86September 5, 2020 10:01 AM

Of course not, R86. Also, very little of the singing in the show is hers: nearly every song is dubbed by someone called Chelsea Cullen, who impersonates her voice quite well. Why they couldn't use her original vocals, though, I have no clue. I would be deeply suspicious of anything you think you learn about Reddy from the movie, which pursues its own agendas into what seem to me very fictional realms.

While it's making stuff up, it fails to mention that Reddy's mother and half-sister Toni were major stars in Australia (among other things Toni, who is still alive, played Babe in The Pajama Game, Nancy in Oliver and Mama Rose in the Australian capital cities), or that her nephew is Tony Sheldon of Priscilla fame.

by Anonymousreply 87September 5, 2020 11:47 AM

[quote]“I think you know everybody anyway — they’re the same old tired fairies you’ve seen around since the day one”

Yes, I think we're supposed to understand that some of the group are very close friends -- Harold and Michael, obviously -- while others are just social acquaintances with varying degrees of closeness. Even if some of them are not best friends, they're all part of a fairly small group of gay men who are out of the closet (for the most part) in NYC in 1969, so they have that bond if nothing else.

by Anonymousreply 88September 5, 2020 11:51 AM

R86 makes my brain hurt.

by Anonymousreply 89September 5, 2020 12:03 PM

Here's all I could find of Chelsea Cullen:

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by Anonymousreply 90September 5, 2020 12:06 PM

I know one can't and shouldn't critique an entire project based on a poorly-recorded five-minute excerpt. But Jesus fucking Christ: Mrs Doubtfire looks like an abortion. What the fuck is that sloppy choreography? The inane, witless lyrics? The banal and uninspired music? And I know the plot, but that scene looks devoid of any fucking dramatic tension or structure.

Time and time again, I'm amazed that these things spend years in development, raise millions in funds, go through workshops and out of town tryouts before finally ending up on Broadway. And they're still just absolutely fucking dreadful, with no clear reason why they need to exists. All that labor and effort and time and cost, to produce nothing but forgettable mediocrities. For the life of me, I'm amazed that people kept paying to see this shit, when a monthly Netflix subscription costs less than an interval drink at a Broadway show.

And when theatres reopen, who in their right mind is not only going to pay for a ticket, but actually risk death just to sit through some fucking half-assed adaptation of a movie that's almost 30 years old?

With scant exceptions, the American musical was dead long before March of this year.

by Anonymousreply 91September 5, 2020 1:15 PM

Yeah, that number. smacks of real desperation. Probably best if it never opens.

by Anonymousreply 92September 5, 2020 1:28 PM

I have to admit I do not know Boys in the Band, but I heard about it for years and I am trying to decide whether to see this or not.

This is a spoiler request--are all the gay men clones of Hitler? Does anyone ever call them out on the Holocaust or do they just let that slide by.

My mother was jewish so I have feelings about this and may not want to watch it if it lets Nazis off the hook.

Also, in the 70s I know they used to talk about "gay clones." Was that because of Boys from the Band?

by Anonymousreply 93September 5, 2020 2:41 PM

R59-I think it's Rudin's production of DEATH OF A SALESMAN, THE MUSICAL starring Nathan.

by Anonymousreply 94September 5, 2020 3:24 PM

DEATH OF A SALESLADY

by Anonymousreply 95September 5, 2020 3:25 PM

Death of a Non-Gender Specific Salesperson

by Anonymousreply 96September 5, 2020 3:36 PM

[Quote] a movie that's almost 30 years old?

I think you miss some of the point.

by Anonymousreply 97September 5, 2020 3:40 PM

I have no idea what you're babbling about, R93, but as someone who enjoys "The Boys in the Band" for its wit and who appreciates its historical significance, I suggest that you avoid it like the plague.

by Anonymousreply 98September 5, 2020 3:42 PM

For absolutely no reason...

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by Anonymousreply 99September 5, 2020 4:26 PM

DEATH OF A SALESBOTTOM

by Anonymousreply 100September 5, 2020 4:53 PM

Thanks, r98. If r93 needs advice from a group of anonymous gay men as to whether he should watch a 2-hour movie, he must be 12.

by Anonymousreply 101September 5, 2020 4:58 PM

Now that I see it again, I think that R93's post was meant as a joke, deliberately conflating "The Boys in the Band" with "The Boys From Brazil."

To put it another way, it was like a joke, only without any actual humor.

by Anonymousreply 102September 5, 2020 5:24 PM

WE SEE YOU WHITE DEATH OF A SALESBOTTOM!!!

by Anonymousreply 103September 5, 2020 5:43 PM

r93 is a pock-marked Jew fairy.

by Anonymousreply 104September 5, 2020 5:56 PM

R104 is Maria Montez

by Anonymousreply 105September 5, 2020 6:42 PM

R78: Give The Light in the Piazza a try. To me, it's one of the very best of modern musicals. (Fifteen years old counts as "modern," yes?)

by Anonymousreply 106September 5, 2020 7:07 PM

It's superb, r78. Do as r106 suggests. It's a pity Kelli O'Hara had left the show before it was filmed; her replacement's not as good, but Victoria Clark is perfection.

by Anonymousreply 107September 5, 2020 7:10 PM

Three Kings with Andrew Scott.

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by Anonymousreply 108September 5, 2020 7:36 PM

I have so much to say about that atrocious Mrs. Doubtfire clip. Is the whole show as overproduced and busily staged as that “song”? To even call that claptrap rap or whatever it is a song is an insult to true songwriters. Everything about it is terrible, from the puerile lyrics to the lack of a discernible melody or even a memorable hook to the endless length and the wrongheaded concept of not musicalizing one of the film’s most memorable lines (“My first day as a woman and I’m already getting hot flashes”), which instead doesn’t even land because it’s buried beneath the pablum masquerading as a song and the ridiculously fussy staging. Please don’t tell me this is a highlight of the show. Also, who is the shrill and strident cooking instructor (whose voice, demeanor and attitude do not evoke any YouTube chef that ever existed, nor the other one ,which is a half-hearted Paula Dean parody, I’m assuming. The production values range from impressive to embarrassingly cheap (that table on wheels the shrew awkwardly pushes out prior to her first entrance). I can’t even go on (though I could). What a bomb. It looks almost - almost, not quite - as bad as another screen-to-stage adaptation of a film that has everything to make a good musical, but instead was a turgid and boring abortion, The First Wives Club. I’m usually not this negative, but that clip was ridiculously horrible. Apologies for the length of this diatribe, perhaps some of you agree (or not?).

by Anonymousreply 109September 5, 2020 7:42 PM

PS I adore the film, warts and all. It was a childhood favorite.

by Anonymousreply 110September 5, 2020 7:44 PM

Live, Socially Distanced Theater in Central Park:

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by Anonymousreply 111September 5, 2020 9:11 PM

R71 Even Joanne Worley would be insulted by that long aborted chicken joke

by Anonymousreply 112September 5, 2020 9:25 PM

Don't let this inspire anyone to try a musical based on Ms. Child, Hello, Julia!

by Anonymousreply 113September 5, 2020 9:48 PM

Does Boys in the Band feature gunshots? What does the show curtain look like?

by Anonymousreply 114September 5, 2020 9:48 PM

What kind of band are they? If they are a rock band, I might skip it. A jazz band or swing band are more my speed.

by Anonymousreply 115September 5, 2020 9:54 PM

They are a band of brothers, r115, as well as sisters under the skin.

by Anonymousreply 116September 5, 2020 9:57 PM

They’re a string sextet, r115, specializing in show tunes from the 50s and 60s.

by Anonymousreply 117September 5, 2020 10:20 PM

I think the idea of a band specializing in show tunes being gay is really outdated and offensive. I am definitely skipping this.

by Anonymousreply 118September 5, 2020 10:23 PM

I'm picketing this.

by Anonymousreply 119September 5, 2020 10:24 PM

No justice, no “Boys”!

by Anonymousreply 120September 5, 2020 10:25 PM

Is this the Boys with the evil superheroes?

by Anonymousreply 121September 5, 2020 10:52 PM

Chace Crawford would have been a perfect "Cowboy" a decade ago.

by Anonymousreply 122September 5, 2020 10:53 PM

R79 I'm only a few minutes into this high school Follies and this high school Sally is already giving a better performance than Imelda Staunton. Granted, she hasn't sung yet...

by Anonymousreply 123September 5, 2020 10:56 PM

I guess you didn't see Bernie's Sally...

by Anonymousreply 124September 5, 2020 10:57 PM

I did. It was....unfortunate.

by Anonymousreply 125September 5, 2020 11:00 PM

Bernadette wasn't that bad as Sally. At least not at the performance I saw, but she does have a habit of being a little inconsistent from performance to performance, doesn't she? Ask anyone about her run in Gypsy and you'll get either get "she was genius" or "she was the worst Rose I've ever seen."

by Anonymousreply 126September 5, 2020 11:01 PM

BP defenders always talk about how she was "later in the run." The woman is not an actress.

by Anonymousreply 127September 5, 2020 11:03 PM

There's something so grotesque about seeing high schoolers playing bitter, jaded 50-80 somethings.

by Anonymousreply 128September 5, 2020 11:03 PM

Peters was very winning in Hello, Dolly. Probably the best she's been in years. Really warm, funny, and moving. Loved her in that.

by Anonymousreply 129September 5, 2020 11:04 PM

Something for the boys...

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by Anonymousreply 130September 5, 2020 11:04 PM

Was there ever an attempt to do a musical version of The Boys in the Band? Or an opera?

by Anonymousreply 131September 5, 2020 11:09 PM

Don't give Jake Shears any ideas.

by Anonymousreply 132September 5, 2020 11:10 PM

High school kids doing Follies is like the gay version of those plays the lead character put on in Rushmore.

by Anonymousreply 133September 5, 2020 11:28 PM

Glenn

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by Anonymousreply 134September 6, 2020 1:00 AM

r128 - This should go directly to Losing My Mind right into Lucy and Jessie. Otherwise it's at 1:55:27.

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by Anonymousreply 135September 6, 2020 1:34 AM

Does the poster who has all the bootlegs have the most recent revival of All My Sons? I just discovered Benjamin Walker.

by Anonymousreply 136September 6, 2020 1:37 AM

Benjamin Walker got such a raw deal with American Psycho. To physically transform himself like that, perform incredibly difficult material (including the tighty whitey blood ballet), ooze charisma and sing like a dream only to end up a mere afterthought as the vultures descended. What I wouldn’t give for an edgy adult musical on serious themes like that again, but I have a feeling that type of entertainment is gone for good or at least many, many years when theatre returns. Am I the only one who admired the show (and especially him in it)? Yes, it needed more work (why didn’t it get it?), but it was unique and at times sensational powerful and theatrical.

by Anonymousreply 137September 6, 2020 1:58 AM

R136 I have four All My Sons. Is it Sally's Annette or Zoe?

by Anonymousreply 138September 6, 2020 2:12 AM

Speaking of which, is there a boot of American Psycho out there?

by Anonymousreply 139September 6, 2020 2:13 AM

R137 I loved that show. Saw it many times. Should have been given a better chance.

by Anonymousreply 140September 6, 2020 2:18 AM

I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't want to fuck Ben Walker.

by Anonymousreply 141September 6, 2020 2:18 AM

Well, unless Mamie Gummer visits the DL that may be true, r141.

by Anonymousreply 142September 6, 2020 2:37 AM

R138 Annette please.

by Anonymousreply 143September 6, 2020 2:46 AM

Here ya go...

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by Anonymousreply 144September 6, 2020 2:59 AM

[quote]There's something so grotesque about seeing high schoolers playing bitter, jaded 50-80 somethings.

[] Sounds like the film of Dear Evan Hanson in reverse. Hi, Ben!

[quote]Was there ever an attempt to do a musical version of The Boys in the Band? Or an opera?

No, but years later Crowley wrote a sequel titled "The Men from the Boys." It's never had a major production because the few productions it has had have been badly received. The title always reminded me of this joke:

How do they separate the men from the boys in Greece?

With a crowbar.

by Anonymousreply 145September 6, 2020 3:01 AM

What a strange pair, Annette and Frankie made. Who thought to put those two together?

She was built like the proverbial "brick house", what torpedos she had. Frankie was a bit on the small side and pigeon chested.

by Anonymousreply 146September 6, 2020 3:09 AM

Here's where we separate the notes from noise.

by Anonymousreply 147September 6, 2020 3:11 AM

"Was there ever an attempt to do a musical version of The Boys in the Band? "

They did record the title number of the proposed musical

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by Anonymousreply 148September 6, 2020 3:27 AM

That number from Mrs. Doubtfire is worse than Covid....

by Anonymousreply 149September 6, 2020 3:29 AM

What Theatre Gossip thread would be complete without this?

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by Anonymousreply 150September 6, 2020 3:45 AM

I thought Something Rotten was highly entertaining and quite witty, but now that I see that Mrs. Doubtfire is by the same team it makes sense that this is by those authors - though it is far worse than anything that made it into Something Rotten. By the way, the audience goes absolutely ape shit at the end of that abomination... has taste really completely evaporated? Apparently so. Highly depressing.

by Anonymousreply 151September 6, 2020 3:47 AM

[quote]No, but years later Crowley wrote a sequel titled "The Men from the Boys." It's never had a major production because the few productions it has had have been badly received.

A reading of "The Men From the Boys," directed by Zachary Quinto, was streamed in June.

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by Anonymousreply 152September 6, 2020 3:49 AM

I thought "Something Rotten!" had some funny bits, but by the second act, the same witless gags (confusing "Hamlet" with "Omelet") were being pounded into the ground over and over and over. I did not have high hopes for "Mrs. Doubtfire" when I found out it was from the same creative team.

by Anonymousreply 153September 6, 2020 3:53 AM

Thanks, r152. I'll watch it later.

I thought The Men from the Boys follows the same characters 30 years later. Surely they didn't all survive the 80s?

I didn't see the last revival but I saw the 25th anniversary production in the early 90s with David Drake at the Theatre de Lys. When it was good, it was very good but I thought it was overlong to sit through. Did anyone else see that or the Transport Group production from 10 or 12 years ago performed in a Chelsea penthouse? I heard that was very good.

by Anonymousreply 154September 6, 2020 4:06 AM

Something Rotten was funny for a while but as 153 says, the gag about omelet dragged on for too long but that could also have been intentional. In some instances driving something into the ground is used for comic effect.

Still I'd have to say that overall it was enjoyable.

by Anonymousreply 155September 6, 2020 4:26 AM

I don't think "The Men From the Boys" is still available to stream, R154. That Playbill article was from June.

by Anonymousreply 156September 6, 2020 4:40 AM

Was the script for The Men from the Boys ever publisher? A cursory Google search would suggest not.

by Anonymousreply 157September 6, 2020 7:00 AM

Audiences have terrible taste. I saw the out of town tryout of Mrs. Doubtfire in Seattle and for the most part, audiences ate it up.

Rob McClure is good....he's a terrific performer. He's really the sole reason to see the show.

But, the show itself feels like most new musicals...soulless, corporate, cruise ship/casino level entertainment.

by Anonymousreply 158September 6, 2020 7:52 AM

R157, the script of Men from the Boys is published by Samuel French and also appears in Crowley's collected plays from Alyson Books.

by Anonymousreply 159September 6, 2020 1:48 PM

^^^found through a google search

by Anonymousreply 160September 6, 2020 1:49 PM

So will The New Season section in next week’s Sunday Times be a pamphlet or will they just not print one?

by Anonymousreply 161September 6, 2020 1:49 PM

The Transport group production of BITB was terrific, with the exception of the actor who abysmally mangled the role of Harold. He was embarrassingly bad. Jonathan Hammond and Nick Westrate were outstanding as Michael and Donald.

by Anonymousreply 162September 6, 2020 4:06 PM

One of the many reasons the phrase "Oh dear" was invented...

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by Anonymousreply 163September 6, 2020 5:35 PM

The ONE...

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by Anonymousreply 164September 6, 2020 6:27 PM

O.K., close second...

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by Anonymousreply 165September 6, 2020 6:58 PM

Thanks, r164. Heaven. Made me cry.

by Anonymousreply 166September 6, 2020 7:42 PM

The fact that the images are blurry and you're never quite sure if the sound synchs is just the perfect way to remember that transcendent production r164.

by Anonymousreply 167September 6, 2020 8:09 PM

That footage from the wings in r164 gave me chills

by Anonymousreply 168September 6, 2020 8:18 PM

[quote]r134 Glenn

Lord, she really comes across as a plain-faced female impersonator. But without the pizazz.

by Anonymousreply 169September 6, 2020 9:06 PM

And the taps are so emphasized, r167. I'm assuming that was enhanced on the soundboard with the boys tapping in the basement.

by Anonymousreply 170September 6, 2020 9:09 PM

Ugh. There's more artistic ambition, thematic exploration and sheer emotional profundity in seven minutes of 'Who's that woman?' than there has been in the entirety of some Broadway seasons. I know that FOLLIES! gets discussed ad nauseam here, but Lord, what a masterpiece.

by Anonymousreply 171September 6, 2020 9:09 PM

[quote]the boys tapping in the basement

Is that what they called it in the 70s?

by Anonymousreply 172September 6, 2020 9:16 PM

[quote]the boys tapping in the basement.

What is it about Sondheim and basements?

by Anonymousreply 173September 6, 2020 9:20 PM

I tapped that in the basement.

by Anonymousreply 174September 6, 2020 9:21 PM

They should rewrite FOLLIES! to be about a drag queens instead, drag queens are very popular right now and it would probably be a hot ticket.

Have to think the queens in this thread that can't let go of this fucking production imagine and wish they were the ladies in the show.

Can't see the reason for such obsession otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 175September 6, 2020 9:30 PM

Rewrite FOLLIES for Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Megan would be Durant (Plummer) as dining out on getting some glass in her foot is a very Sally thing to do. And Cardi would absolutely tell you about how much Georgian silver she has in the crib.

by Anonymousreply 176September 6, 2020 9:32 PM

Feel free to talk about something else, r175.

by Anonymousreply 177September 6, 2020 9:34 PM

Don't be stupid 176

by Anonymousreply 178September 6, 2020 9:34 PM

I’d say someone should do a production of Follies where Stella transitioned FTM after the Follies. But Come Back...Jimmy Dean kinda already did that, albeit the other way around.

by Anonymousreply 179September 6, 2020 9:35 PM

A trans Stella should be MTF - easier to get those low tones.

by Anonymousreply 180September 6, 2020 9:36 PM

I always loved Sondheim's original concept for the number where the women had to work around the fact that one of their dance partners had died in the years since. I could see that working well in a film version.

by Anonymousreply 181September 6, 2020 10:36 PM

I thought there was a thread dedicated to Follies exclusively. Of course, no one can find it because of the laughable, non-existent search function.

by Anonymousreply 182September 7, 2020 12:28 AM

There was. But this is the Theatre Gossip Thread. We talk about FOLLIES here.

by Anonymousreply 183September 7, 2020 12:30 AM

[quote]But this is the Theatre Gossip Thread. We talk about FOLLIES here.

And almost nothing else.

by Anonymousreply 184September 7, 2020 2:26 AM

[Quote] And almost nothing else.

You're welcome to introduce a new topic.

by Anonymousreply 185September 7, 2020 2:27 AM

R181, Michael Bennett used the concept to much more powerful advantage in ACL when in the final lineup, there is now an empty space where Paul had been.

by Anonymousreply 186September 7, 2020 2:29 AM

Someone dies in ACL?

by Anonymousreply 187September 7, 2020 2:34 AM

[quote]Someone dies in ACL?

Yes. When Sheila doesn't get the job, she pulls out a gun and fires at Val. Unfortunately, the bullet bounces off Val's fake tits and hits Morales. It's karma for Morales singing that she felt nothing when Mr. Karp died. Ritchie rushes to Morales' body and reenacts the final moments of West Side Story:. How many bullets, Sheila? One for you? And you? And one left for me? Te Adora, Morales.

by Anonymousreply 188September 7, 2020 2:48 AM

Rob McClure really is a terrific actor,

by Anonymousreply 189September 7, 2020 2:50 AM

We haven't talked about FOLLIES in a while. Maybe we could talk about that. More specifically, Westfield High's production.

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by Anonymousreply 190September 7, 2020 3:09 AM

^ Their Ben is a freshman...and has braces.

by Anonymousreply 191September 7, 2020 3:12 AM

I, sick of these fucking high school productions of Follies with all these untalented kids.

by Anonymousreply 192September 7, 2020 3:14 AM

It's like the OBC of Merrily.

by Anonymousreply 193September 7, 2020 3:15 AM

Absolutely nothing to watch on TV. I flipped on Dear John. Haven't watched that since it was first on. It was at this point at 11:00 when Mr. Groener begins to dance. Awwww.

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by Anonymousreply 194September 7, 2020 3:24 AM

"I, sick of these fucking high school productions of Follies with all these untalented kids."

I, sick of Follies.

by Anonymousreply 195September 7, 2020 3:33 AM

OMG, R194, I just did the exact same thing!!! There was nothing to watch at 11, so I turned to see what was on Antenna TV and started watching "Dear John," which I have not seen in years.

by Anonymousreply 196September 7, 2020 3:46 AM

A Chorus Line seems so dated to me. I don’t think it would be as powerful now as it was when it premiered.

We are all used to shows about show biz behind the scenes. The shocking elements—gay character, a woman talking about tits and ass—aren’t so shocking anymore

by Anonymousreply 197September 7, 2020 3:55 AM

[quote]We haven't talked about FOLLIES in a while. Maybe we could talk about that. More specifically, Westfield High's production.

Did Westdale High ever do it? I'm seeing Peter as Ben and Greg as Buddy. Jan as Sally and Marcia as Phyllis. Alice as Hattie or Carlotta.

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by Anonymousreply 198September 7, 2020 4:03 AM

It really was a funny episode, r196. I was laughing out loud at the end. They really did have a well-cast show. Love Jane Carr.

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by Anonymousreply 199September 7, 2020 4:16 AM

Jane Carr is good friends with Joanna Lumley.

by Anonymousreply 200September 7, 2020 4:44 AM

Jane and Joanna with Elizabeth Knight and Jennifer Croxton (looking like Julie Driscoll).

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by Anonymousreply 201September 7, 2020 4:46 AM

Mary MacGregor died a FOOL!

by Anonymousreply 202September 7, 2020 4:51 AM

[quote] A Chorus Line seems so dated to me. I don’t think it would be as powerful now as it was when it premiered.

The last Broadway revival smelled of mothballs and wasn’t ideally cast, but City Center did an Encores-like production a year or so ago that was quite wonderful.

by Anonymousreply 203September 7, 2020 9:38 AM

A good director can make anything seem fresh. Unfortunately, the stage is always suffering a dearth of excellent directors.

by Anonymousreply 204September 7, 2020 10:56 AM

R203, yes I saw the revival (which I believe was a moment by moment recreation of the original) and it sucked!

No energy, no spark

by Anonymousreply 205September 7, 2020 12:47 PM

Here you go, R113. For you.

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by Anonymousreply 206September 7, 2020 12:51 PM

Thank! Now I'm sorry I asked!

by Anonymousreply 207September 7, 2020 1:09 PM

Frankly, the movie JULIE & JULIA would make a good stage musical, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 208September 7, 2020 1:17 PM

Anyone have the Old Vic Three Kings with Andrew Scott?

by Anonymousreply 209September 7, 2020 3:05 PM

[quote]Frankly, the movie JULIE & JULIA would make a good stage musical, IMO.

Because there haven't been nearly enough stage musicals in recent years adapted from movies that were not especially inspired choices to turn into musicals.

by Anonymousreply 210September 7, 2020 3:36 PM

That Nick Cordero memorial last night was a dreary, sappy, slog. Where were the people he worked with on Broadway? It could have been done in an hour, instead, it stretched out to 2 dry-eyed, sloppy hours, with nothing from best friend Zach Braff, hardly anyone from WAITRESS, and just Richard H. Blake from BRONX TALE. Surely the man deserved better than this. I suspect some people just didn't want to be part of it. And I could have done with a lot less from the wife, especially in those personal videos.

by Anonymousreply 211September 7, 2020 4:13 PM

That painful Nick Cordero memorial tribute last night was a sappy, overlong slog. Two hours of tributes from "friends", with anecdotes too stupid to have to listen to. Where was Zach Braff, his "best friend", where was jessie Mueller, where was anyone of importance. The wife needed an editor, for this thing could have certainly been done in an hour, without all the videos of her. What was she doing, promoting her own career, or saying goodbye to Nick? I suspect a lot of people refused to participate.

by Anonymousreply 212September 7, 2020 4:18 PM

I'd prefer Sunnydale High's production of Follies - someone could stake Drusilla as old Heidi half way through One More Kiss .

by Anonymousreply 213September 7, 2020 4:36 PM

Doubtfire suffers from bad writing. "something rotten" was a B- at best, and that writing team approaches everything like they're writing for The Carol Burnett Show in 1974. It reminded me of watching TOOTSIE -- it was so forced and strained and wearying...

by Anonymousreply 214September 7, 2020 4:54 PM

Much more appropriate for high schools. I sat through the entire 5 minutes, but I thought the final effect at the end was worth it.

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by Anonymousreply 215September 7, 2020 5:23 PM

R209 Has already been posted on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 216September 7, 2020 6:17 PM

The Nick tribute.

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by Anonymousreply 217September 7, 2020 6:45 PM

So how much did The Widow Kloots grift from that "memorial" on top of what she scammed through GoFundMe?

by Anonymousreply 218September 7, 2020 7:11 PM

My Beautiful Laundrette.

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by Anonymousreply 219September 7, 2020 7:44 PM

Thank you 219, now I can finish watching it.

Someone over at Reddit put it up for viewing for 48 hours and I didn't have time to see the whole thing in one sitting.

by Anonymousreply 220September 7, 2020 10:43 PM

Some legend finally posted Starstruck on Youtube. Loved it as a gayling, but fuck, it is bizarre. Like an anti musical. And the David Atkins choreography is something else....

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by Anonymousreply 221September 8, 2020 1:04 AM

Why has no one adapted LIKE WATER FOR CHOCOLATE into a musical? It's about warped family traditions, an evil mother, a jealous older sister, and forbidden love. Also, the story features magical elements that are ripe for musicalization. A modern fairy tale set against the backdrop of the Mexican Revolution (1910-1920).

It was a novel first, so it wouldn't necessarily be a film-to-stage transfer.

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by Anonymousreply 222September 8, 2020 3:43 AM

[Quote] It's about warped family traditions, an evil mother, a jealous older sister, and forbidden love.

It could be a hit if they retitle it "The Kardashians."

by Anonymousreply 223September 8, 2020 3:52 AM

"The Gabors"

by Anonymousreply 224September 8, 2020 3:57 AM

"Starstruck" is currently available on Amazon Prime. I saw it years ago in the cinema and enjoyed it a lot. I plan to watch it again soon. I remember it being kind of unusual, funny and just a lot of fun.

by Anonymousreply 225September 8, 2020 4:00 AM

[Quote] "The Gabors"

Merv and Ryan Seacrest as the forbidden lovers.

by Anonymousreply 226September 8, 2020 4:02 AM

Like Water For Chocolate: The Musical! has been in development for eons... it premiered almost ten years ago and got OK reviews but nobody seems to care. No idea who this Downs woman is who wrote the score, but the book was by the In The Heights woman. Seems DOA.

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by Anonymousreply 227September 8, 2020 4:06 AM

[Quote] No idea who this Downs woman is who wrote the score

Pretty girl?

by Anonymousreply 228September 8, 2020 4:07 AM

Why don't these Mexican musicals ever do well? I remember in the early 2000s, there was a Selena musical that was Broadway-bound but never made it.

by Anonymousreply 229September 8, 2020 4:36 AM

Michael John LaChiusa’s Bernarda Alba was sensational and got rave reviews but only played a limited run at the Mitzi E. Newhouse back in the late 00s. Phylicia Rashad certainly would have received Tony #2 (or #3?) had it transferred but one assumes producers are (expectedly) gun-shy with pieces like that. Daphne Rubin Vega was devastating, as well. Graciela Daniele’s direction was superb. It’s not a fun show (obviously), but a beautiful piece. The cast album is excellent.

by Anonymousreply 230September 8, 2020 5:59 AM

Why hasn’t Chocolat been turned into a musical?

by Anonymousreply 231September 8, 2020 12:37 PM

Haven't a clue, r229.

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by Anonymousreply 232September 8, 2020 1:31 PM

Thanks, R216, I missed it earlier. If anyone else wants Andrew Scott in Three Kings it's at R108.

by Anonymousreply 233September 8, 2020 2:26 PM

Does anybody have a link to the full NT Follies?

by Anonymousreply 234September 8, 2020 3:19 PM

It's when I hear shit like that "Abracadabra" and I don't understand why people think Cole Porter was a genius.

by Anonymousreply 235September 8, 2020 3:23 PM

Glad to see this thread back. Last night I actually thought it had been deleted for some reason. It dropped off my watch list, which has happened before, but this time I could not find it at all using the search function. No matter what word(s) I put in, nothing came up, so who the hell knows.

by Anonymousreply 236September 8, 2020 3:23 PM

[quote]It's when I hear shit like that "Abracadabra" and I don't understand why people think Cole Porter was a genius.

Maybe because they're more musically educated than you are and have heard other Porter songs like "So in Love," "Just One of Those Things," "Begin the Beguine," "I Get a Kick Out of You," "You're the Top," "They Couldn't Compare to You" etc etc and all the dozens and dozens of songs that attest to his genius. "Abracadabra" is grade D Porter, from one of his worst shows.

by Anonymousreply 237September 8, 2020 3:51 PM

[quote] Why hasn’t Chocolat been turned into a musical?

Because tourists don't want to see it

by Anonymousreply 238September 8, 2020 4:12 PM

The man with the big...

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by Anonymousreply 239September 8, 2020 4:25 PM

[Quote] I could not find it at all using the search function. No matter what word(s) I put in, nothing came up, so who the hell knows.

Use Google.

by Anonymousreply 240September 8, 2020 5:05 PM

The Porter is a silly throwaway but give me Abracadabra over Alba any day of the week.

by Anonymousreply 241September 8, 2020 6:42 PM

I think Abracadabra is a lot of fun, and June sure puts it over. At least it has craft, something most new songs don't have at all.

by Anonymousreply 242September 8, 2020 6:46 PM

Follies!

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by Anonymousreply 243September 8, 2020 6:54 PM

Sea Wold with Andrew Scott.

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by Anonymousreply 244September 8, 2020 6:56 PM

Candide.

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by Anonymousreply 245September 8, 2020 6:58 PM

Here’s another fun June Havoc song from Mexican Hayride. It’s more typical Porter-y

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by Anonymousreply 246September 8, 2020 7:21 PM

Was "Sadie Thompson" recorded?

by Anonymousreply 247September 8, 2020 7:26 PM

R238 The movie was a critical and box office hit and was nominated for several Oscars, including Best Picture.

by Anonymousreply 248September 8, 2020 7:27 PM

I know that most people here already know this, but for the few who don't, June Havoc began her career as a child star in vaudeville. She was known as Baby June and her sister Louise was also in her act.

by Anonymousreply 249September 8, 2020 7:30 PM

[quote]R245 Candide

I just skipped around through that here and there, but right from the first song the tempos seem unnecessarily slow.

I think that show is more fun with a sprightly quality.

by Anonymousreply 250September 8, 2020 7:30 PM

[quote] Was "Sadie Thompson" recorded?

Not with June it wasn’t, unfortunately. A few years ago, there was a studio recording, but the boring & inappropriate Melissa Errico sang the title role.

by Anonymousreply 251September 8, 2020 7:37 PM

[quote] Was "Sadie Thompson" recorded?

Not with June it wasn’t, unfortunately. A few years ago, there was a studio recording, but the boring & inappropriate Melissa Errico sang the title role.

by Anonymousreply 252September 8, 2020 7:37 PM

Thanks, r252. For you, r247...

It's not a very memorable score, alas.

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by Anonymousreply 253September 8, 2020 7:41 PM

Dolores Gray recorded a couple of the numbers for Ben Bagley.

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by Anonymousreply 254September 8, 2020 7:43 PM

Pics

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by Anonymousreply 255September 8, 2020 7:45 PM

[quote]I know that most people here already know this, but for the few who don't, June Havoc began her career as a child star in vaudeville. She was known as Baby June and her sister Louise was also in her act.

Gee -- now why hasn't someone turned THAT story into a musical!

by Anonymousreply 256September 8, 2020 7:45 PM

I see that my quip about Sondheim's book has been regifted as a thread title.

by Anonymousreply 257September 8, 2020 7:46 PM

At least June got a Hirschfeld out of it...

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by Anonymousreply 258September 8, 2020 7:49 PM

R249 interesting that June was able to transition from vaudeville to Broadway, but her sister had to go the way of burlesque. Was it as difficult for vaudevellians to transition like that after vaudeville ended as it was for silent movie actors to transition to talkies when the silent era ended?

by Anonymousreply 259September 8, 2020 7:52 PM

"The Men From The Boys" is not very good. It doesn't really go anywhere and is rather dull. Sequels sometimes just do NOT work because the story has already been told and is finished.

by Anonymousreply 260September 8, 2020 7:53 PM

Didn't Louise make Broadway before June?

by Anonymousreply 261September 8, 2020 7:56 PM

Between Vaudeville and Broadway, June had to do the marathons, r259. And don't you remember? Louise was the one with *no* talent.

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by Anonymousreply 262September 8, 2020 8:00 PM

WaPo: New York City can’t rebound without Broadway. And Broadway’s road back is uncertain:

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by Anonymousreply 263September 8, 2020 8:04 PM

"Sequels sometimes just do NOT work because the story has already been told and is finished."

Such as the totally unnecessary sequel to Chinatown, The Two Jakes. J.J Gittes, like Maria at the end of WSS (as astutely observed by Richard Rodgers), is, spiritually speaking, dead. GIttes' (spoiler alert) inability to save Mrs. Mulwray in the wake of an earlier tragedy in his life is the final chapter of the story and there is nothing more to say.

by Anonymousreply 264September 8, 2020 8:08 PM

r261 - June's first Broadway appearance was in Forbidden Melody (Nov 02, 1936 - Nov 28, 1936). Louise's was under the name Rose Louise as "Girl in Compartment" in Hot-Cha! (Mar 08, 1932 - Jun 18, 1932).

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by Anonymousreply 265September 8, 2020 8:27 PM

Starmites!

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by Anonymousreply 266September 8, 2020 11:45 PM

I'm reading Andrew Lloyd-Webber's autobio (I'm late to the party). I'm up to the point of JCS moving to Broadway. He says that he auditioned Bette Midler and was blown away by her version of "I Don't Know How To Love Him" and she would have gotten the role if he hadn't already promised it to Yvonne Elliman.

by Anonymousreply 267September 9, 2020 12:30 AM

Why was he auditioning Bette in the first place then?

by Anonymousreply 268September 9, 2020 12:32 AM

r268

understudy? future replacement?

by Anonymousreply 269September 9, 2020 12:33 AM

R269 But Yvonne wasn't going to be her own understudy or replacement, so Midler could've been cast as those.

by Anonymousreply 270September 9, 2020 12:35 AM

Robert Stigwood Organization (RSO) produced the original Broadway production. Pete Brown, who was basically the overseer of ALW and the JCS project, asked him to audition Bette as a favor.

Bette only got the audition because there were a lot of gay men involved in the producing side of things.

by Anonymousreply 271September 9, 2020 12:49 AM

Gay men? In the theatah?! I’m shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

by Anonymousreply 272September 9, 2020 10:08 AM

r272

in the legitimate theatah though?

by Anonymousreply 273September 9, 2020 10:15 AM

Stigwood's company owned the film rights. The efforts to get a film made went on for years. At one point Ken Russell wanted to direct Liza Minnelli in a film version and the Stigwood org produced an extended screen test.

For whatever reason, Stigwood ruled Liza out and that caused Russell to drop out. But that screen test survives somewhere and is legendary. It's known to exist in a few private collections and probably in whatever archives there are of the Stigwood org, but it has never leaked on the net or anywhere else for the rest of us to see.

by Anonymousreply 274September 9, 2020 10:30 AM

R274 is referring to Evita, by the way. Not JCS. Would love to see that screen test!

by Anonymousreply 275September 9, 2020 11:25 AM

Jeshush Chrisht Shupershtar!

by Anonymousreply 276September 9, 2020 11:58 AM

Liza didn't sound like Sean Connery back then!

by Anonymousreply 277September 9, 2020 2:31 PM

Does anyone have Curious Incident of the Dog? It was posted before, but the search is not bringing it up.

by Anonymousreply 278September 9, 2020 3:05 PM

The video of Curious incident is distorted. If you down load it and widen it to fit screen, it will undistort it.

I have it but cannot upload it. But it is out there.

by Anonymousreply 279September 9, 2020 3:50 PM

Whom would you theater aficionados cast in the all-black version of " Follies"?

by Anonymousreply 280September 9, 2020 4:37 PM

Clarke Peters has already played Benjamin Stone, right?

by Anonymousreply 281September 9, 2020 4:40 PM

Peters dropped out of Follies before it was performed

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by Anonymousreply 282September 9, 2020 4:53 PM

Beyonce *is* Phyllis Rogers Stone

Queen Latifah *is* Stella

by Anonymousreply 283September 9, 2020 5:01 PM

Brandy as Sally, Monica as Phyllis. Ray J as the waiter.

by Anonymousreply 284September 9, 2020 5:02 PM

Damn, Andrew Scott is good.

Thanks r244

Hope I get to see him on stage some day.

by Anonymousreply 285September 9, 2020 5:21 PM

Leslie Uggams would have made a great Sally when she was younger. Now she could probably do Hattie perhaps.

by Anonymousreply 286September 9, 2020 5:34 PM

Diahann Carroll might have made a good Phyllis.

by Anonymousreply 287September 9, 2020 5:36 PM

I would happily watch Andrew Scott read the user manual for my blender.

by Anonymousreply 288September 9, 2020 5:39 PM

Kathleen Battle for Heidi (but warning: she does not play well with others).

by Anonymousreply 289September 9, 2020 5:44 PM

Carol Channing (who was part black) might have made a fun Stella.

by Anonymousreply 290September 9, 2020 5:45 PM

Ruth Pointer might be a fun Stella.

by Anonymousreply 291September 9, 2020 5:45 PM

James Earl Jones as Dmitri Weismann.

by Anonymousreply 292September 9, 2020 5:46 PM

Lonette McKee might have made a great Sally.

by Anonymousreply 293September 9, 2020 5:47 PM

or Marilyn McCoo

by Anonymousreply 294September 9, 2020 5:47 PM

I guess Audra as Stella perhaps? Sorry but Sally does not look like a linebacker.

by Anonymousreply 295September 9, 2020 5:48 PM

Eddie Murphy as Buddy

by Anonymousreply 296September 9, 2020 5:49 PM

Baayork Lee as Stella is a possibility -- and the 4 foot 10 would look cute surrounded by bigger dames.

by Anonymousreply 297September 9, 2020 5:50 PM

Oh, sorry, it was all-black -- but if open to other POCs, Baayork should be considered. Plus it was a Michael Bennett show, and she's made a post-"A Chorus Line" career restaging it around the world.

by Anonymousreply 298September 9, 2020 5:52 PM

Leslie Uggams as Carlotta, just so we can watch her forget the lyrics to "I'm Still Here".

by Anonymousreply 299September 9, 2020 6:04 PM

Speaking of Carlotta forgetting lyrics, does anyone have the OLC video bootleg of "Follies"?

by Anonymousreply 300September 9, 2020 6:13 PM

Norm Lewis as Ben; Jamie Foxx as Buddy.

by Anonymousreply 301September 9, 2020 6:23 PM

The divine Vivian Reed as Carlotta! Can you imagine...!

by Anonymousreply 302September 9, 2020 6:25 PM

I wanna hear Rose Murphy's Broadway Baby!

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by Anonymousreply 303September 9, 2020 6:41 PM

Redd Foxx might have been fun as Buddy and Moms Mabley as Hattie

by Anonymousreply 304September 9, 2020 6:43 PM

Hattie McDaniel as Hattie (or Stella) since we're considered long-gone black performers, too. And Butterfly McQueen for the one Hattie didn't play.

by Anonymousreply 305September 9, 2020 6:45 PM

R278 Anyone does have Curious Incident.

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by Anonymousreply 306September 9, 2020 6:49 PM

Candide.

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by Anonymousreply 307September 9, 2020 6:54 PM

Copped.

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by Anonymousreply 308September 9, 2020 6:56 PM

Is that the forty-leventh script revision of Candide, sorry, Cahndeed, at R307? The Cunegonde is waaaay too old, but the orchestra sounds fantastic. Nice to see Nickolas Grace as Voltaire/Pangloss/Etc.

by Anonymousreply 309September 9, 2020 7:19 PM

^ Nickolas is having a ball.

by Anonymousreply 310September 9, 2020 7:20 PM

^ Nickolas is having a ball.

by Anonymousreply 311September 9, 2020 7:20 PM

Is that Sienna Miller in your link, R308? What the hell is that show?

by Anonymousreply 312September 9, 2020 8:54 PM

Clarke Peters was too short for Ben, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 313September 9, 2020 8:57 PM

Gregory Hines for Buddy!

by Anonymousreply 314September 9, 2020 8:59 PM

R312 It is hell....on earth.

by Anonymousreply 315September 9, 2020 8:59 PM

Flip Wilson as Geraldine as Stella!

by Anonymousreply 316September 9, 2020 8:59 PM

Lena Horne IS—WAS—Phyllis. And in this production, let Phyllis sing I'm Still Here.

Ethel Waters as Stella

Josephine Baker as Hattie

Dorothy Dandridge as Sally

by Anonymousreply 317September 9, 2020 9:32 PM

I guess Follies with an all dead cast might have a certain charm.

by Anonymousreply 318September 9, 2020 9:33 PM

Josephine Baker is a Solange.

by Anonymousreply 319September 9, 2020 9:35 PM

(Young) Jimmie "J.J. Walker or Fred Berry (Rerun from "What's Happening") as Buddy, LaWanda Page (Aunt Esther) as Stella (doing it like a revival meeting), Clifton Davis as Ben, Shirley Hemphill (*What's Happening) as Hattie

by Anonymousreply 320September 9, 2020 9:42 PM

Jimmie Walker would insist on Ann Coulter as Phyllis.

by Anonymousreply 321September 9, 2020 9:43 PM

Young Harry Belafonte as Ben, now as Dmitri Weissman

by Anonymousreply 322September 9, 2020 9:46 PM

Shirley Bassey as Carlotta.

by Anonymousreply 323September 9, 2020 9:47 PM

Ben Vereen doing Bolero D'Amour with Judith Jamison

by Anonymousreply 324September 9, 2020 9:47 PM

Nell Carter as Sally.

by Anonymousreply 325September 9, 2020 9:49 PM

Brian Stokes Mitchell (remember him?) as Ben.

by Anonymousreply 326September 9, 2020 9:52 PM

Vanessa Williams as Phyllis.

Viola Davis as Sally.

by Anonymousreply 327September 9, 2020 9:53 PM

Cleavon Little as Ben

Josephine Premice as Carlotta

by Anonymousreply 328September 9, 2020 9:55 PM

Harolyn Blackwell as Heidi.

by Anonymousreply 329September 9, 2020 9:59 PM

Della Reese as Stella

by Anonymousreply 330September 9, 2020 10:07 PM

Lonette McKee as Phyllis

by Anonymousreply 331September 9, 2020 10:07 PM

This all-black Follies idea is worse than Covid.

by Anonymousreply 332September 9, 2020 10:35 PM

An all black FOLLIES cast has a greater chance of being wiped out by Covid.

by Anonymousreply 333September 9, 2020 10:39 PM

R243 thank you for sharing!

by Anonymousreply 334September 9, 2020 10:59 PM

I’d rather see an all-Black Carrie before an all-Black Follies, if I’m being honest.

by Anonymousreply 335September 9, 2020 11:47 PM

Countess Vaughan as Carrie.

by Anonymousreply 336September 9, 2020 11:49 PM

I liked Follies with ILL cast. Lucy/Phyllis, Viv/Sally, Ricky/Ben, Fred/Buddy, Mrs Trumbul as Hattie.

by Anonymousreply 337September 10, 2020 12:37 AM

And drunk Joan Crawford lipsyncing "I'm Still Here."

by Anonymousreply 338September 10, 2020 12:41 AM

Moms Mabley would have rocked as Hattie!

by Anonymousreply 339September 10, 2020 12:42 AM

Former vaudevillian Frawley would have done the definite Buddy's Blues.

by Anonymousreply 340September 10, 2020 12:45 AM

Maybe heaven is just a well produced production of Follies with a rotating cast of legends stepping into the roles.

by Anonymousreply 341September 10, 2020 12:51 AM

Heaven Follies has THE BEST Loveland!

by Anonymousreply 342September 10, 2020 12:52 AM

Just when you thought yet another discussion of "Follies" couldn't get any more tedious than all the others on DL.

by Anonymousreply 343September 10, 2020 12:55 AM

I need a drink after all the Follies! talk.

Does nobody like me!!!

Merrily

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by Anonymousreply 344September 10, 2020 12:56 AM

[quote]I know one can't and shouldn't critique an entire project based on a poorly-recorded five-minute excerpt. But Jesus fucking Christ: Mrs Doubtfire looks like an abortion.

Sadly, I have to agree. Is that actually the voice Rob McClure actually uses as Mrs. Doubtfire? That's incredible. Other male actors in drag have managed to create the impression that they were women without speaking in ridiculous, stereotypical, high-pitched voices -- Santino Fontana comes immediately to mind -- but McClure sounds so much like a guy that no one would ever believe he was a woman as soon as he opened his mouth. Very surprising.

[quote]With scant exceptions, the American musical was dead long before March of this year.

Not quite dead, because of those few shining exceptions. But those few shining exceptions have become fewer and fewer in recent seasons.

by Anonymousreply 345September 10, 2020 2:26 AM

"Maybe heaven is just a well produced production of Follies with a rotating cast of legends stepping into the roles."

It will be when I get there. I hope Hal isn't stuffing it up already.

by Anonymousreply 346September 10, 2020 2:14 PM

Stuffing it up whom?

by Anonymousreply 347September 10, 2020 2:15 PM

They should retool "Mrs. Doubtfire" for Chris Colfer. He can do a convincing lady voice. They could also make the dad bi.

by Anonymousreply 348September 10, 2020 2:16 PM

What we need is a version of Mrs. Doubtfire where the dad learns, via dressing as a woman, that he’s actually trans. It ends with him proudly transitioning and becoming the fierce and beautiful Ms. Doubtfire. (If McClure wants to continue in the role, he’ll need to have his cock chopped off. A small price to pay for winning the Tony Award for Best Performance by an Acting Non-Gendered Person in a Musical.)

by Anonymousreply 349September 10, 2020 2:21 PM

Tiffany Haddish as Carrie, Mo'nique as Mom

by Anonymousreply 350September 10, 2020 2:31 PM

Brantley's leaving the Times.

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by Anonymousreply 351September 10, 2020 3:23 PM

I remember how good Larry Kert looked at one point dressed almost topless in a Tarzan costume during one number in "Music, Music!" at City Center years ago!

by Anonymousreply 352September 10, 2020 3:53 PM

It's sad that so many Black artists can be named (for Follies) from years gone by but no one has replaced them. It's not quite the same for white artists but it's not like there is a long list there either.

What happened to talent?

by Anonymousreply 353September 10, 2020 4:11 PM

Brantley is finally going!!! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! So, who will the Times replace him with? PRAY it isn't that pompous, ridiculous idiot, Hilton Als.

by Anonymousreply 354September 10, 2020 4:13 PM

What happened to talent?

Electronic media. The camera demands bone structure. We are now awash in photogenic people whose only talent is being photogenic. The stage demands talent, but the stage is irrelevant to modern show business and the modern stage is nearly irrelevant to our culture. Since there are insufficient opportunities in live performance, talent does not grow, does not develop. Even worse, live performance does not attract great talent in large numbers. Live theater will always be around, in some form. But it no longer has any economic importance. And without it, not much happens there.

by Anonymousreply 355September 10, 2020 4:18 PM

Brantley is getting out before Mrs. Doubtfire gets to NYC. And who could blame him?

by Anonymousreply 356September 10, 2020 4:19 PM

I think you can pretty much count on Als. Alas.

by Anonymousreply 357September 10, 2020 4:24 PM

[quote] What happened to talent?

People who had no taste were put in charge.

by Anonymousreply 358September 10, 2020 4:38 PM

Yes. Have you seen who's been running the casting couch in recent decades?

by Anonymousreply 359September 10, 2020 4:53 PM

r355 In these past lockdown months as I have begun acquainting myself with theater I did notice that Broadway has leaned toward casting for looks as well in some cases. Since you really do need to sing if you are in a musical these good looking people have the singing chops but may not have any charisma or any true acting chops to go with it.

I do get that productions worry less about how good an actor someone is if they can bring the vocals as needed. For me I'd be happy with a plain leading man or lady who has a great voice, stage presence and deliver a good acting performance.

I was watching Bernadette Peters in Hello Dolly last night thinking that the woman who plays Irene Malloy might make a great Dolly Levi. I also thought the same thing of Heidi Blickenstaff who played Bea in Something Rotten. Both women know how to give a performance and have good voices and because of their acting abilities could create a memorable Dolly, memorable in a good way.

BP's voice is not up to the task at all but she makes up for it by being Bernadette Peters and she knows how to create some sweet moments because she's a good actress.

I've included the link I was watching for Dolly.

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by Anonymousreply 360September 10, 2020 5:01 PM

Broadway musicals, in the past several years, seem to ALWAYS place vocals above acting. I guess that's what you get in the American Idol zeitgeist.

by Anonymousreply 361September 10, 2020 5:06 PM

Merging choruses (dancing chorus/ensemble, singing chorus) was the death knell. By the same token, demanding "true" triple threats fucked up the game.

by Anonymousreply 362September 10, 2020 5:07 PM

A Jack of all Threats is a master of None.

by Anonymousreply 363September 10, 2020 5:09 PM

[Quote] Broadway musicals, in the past several years, seem to ALWAYS place vocals above acting. I guess that's what you get in the American Idol zeitgeist.

As someone has pointed out before, the Super Musicals of the 1970s/1980s, particularly ALW, put emphasis on the production. The production is what was sold around the world. Performers had to slot in but the production was the star. "Wicked" is the descendant of that.

by Anonymousreply 364September 10, 2020 5:09 PM

[quote]Broadway musicals, in the past several years, seem to ALWAYS place vocals above acting. I guess that's what you get in the American Idol zeitgeist.

This has been the case since the sung-through musicals came on the scene in the late 1970s. It used to be they cast actors who could sometimes sing.

You listen to Mary Martin and she didn't have a spectacular voice. Gwen Verdon had a huge wobble in her voice. Ethel Merman had power but no subtlety. Roz Russell barely had seven notes. Same for Gertrude Lawrence (listen to The King & I, some of the most beautiful theater music all within a seven note range).

by Anonymousreply 365September 10, 2020 5:14 PM

R365 I mostly agree with you, but I think Merman had more than just power. She didn't sing softly very often (and her soft was probably ten times louder than anyone else's), but I think she sounds lovely singing Gypsy's "Small World" and some of the love songs in Annie Get Your Gun.

And Barbara Cook could certainly sing AND act.

by Anonymousreply 366September 10, 2020 5:20 PM

[quote] And Barbara Cook could certainly sing AND act.

I agree with you, but Barbara Cook never entered the mainstream conscious. She was never as high profile as Mary and Ethel and the other Golden Age broads.

by Anonymousreply 367September 10, 2020 5:27 PM

[quote]As someone has pointed out before, the Super Musicals of the 1970s/1980s, particularly ALW, put emphasis on the production. The production is what was sold around the world. Performers had to slot in but the production was the star. "Wicked" is the descendant of that.

Personally I think that strategy failed. Again I'm not a long time theater goer and I'm still not a theater goer just watching bootlegs on the internet, but it matters to me the performance being delivered.

I've said before I hated Phantom because I knew theater queens in the 80's who tried to get me to love it and I just didn't. But seeing Phantom at the Royal Albert Hall was amazing due to Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo's chemistry. They put on a great performance, the kind I'd expect to see going to the theater. You don't get that just switching people around like game pieces. Shows should be cast in order to find exactly that kind of chemistry between performers, it adds a layer to the larger than life spectacle of the show.

Is money the reason they want revolving casts? They can change leads before they can ask for more money?

by Anonymousreply 368September 10, 2020 5:41 PM

[quote]r353 BP's voice is not up to the task at all but she makes up for it by being Bernadette Peters and she knows how to create some sweet moments because she's a good actress.

Bernadette PETERS is a goddamn aging MOON CALF who CRIES during every song she's ever SUNG!

by Anonymousreply 369September 10, 2020 5:45 PM

Well observed.

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by Anonymousreply 370September 10, 2020 5:50 PM

Bernadette did SITPWG off Broadway in shitty conditions for no money because she believed in Sondheim and wanted to help him restart. We should all be grateful.

by Anonymousreply 371September 10, 2020 6:11 PM

She has Reba's Tony.

by Anonymousreply 372September 10, 2020 6:12 PM

Incidentally, remember when the Tonys created a Best Replacement category circa 2006 but didn't nominate anyone that year. By the following season, they had already eliminated the category. WTF was that all about?

by Anonymousreply 373September 10, 2020 6:15 PM

Bernadette Peters is a god-damned national TREASURE, bitch. She has been the single biggest Broadway star for the last 50 years.

by Anonymousreply 374September 10, 2020 6:25 PM

Thanks for posting Bernadette's Dolly, R360. She was miles better than Betty Buckley who I saw on the tour. Gotta say, I got a little misty-eyed watching the production numbers in that bootleg. Guess I just miss good musicals, even the cornball ones. Also, does Gavin Creel have an I Don't Do Bootlegs clause in his contract? His understudy was on when someone recorded the Dolly bootleg with Bette. No complaints about the understudy, of course. And that Charlie Stemp is pretty cute. Perfect role for him.

by Anonymousreply 375September 10, 2020 6:38 PM

Don't we think Jesse Green will end up with the slot? Hilton Als doesn't write for the average NYT reader.

by Anonymousreply 376September 10, 2020 6:50 PM

I would sooner Walter Kerr came back from the grave than the navel-gazing Als become the Times' lead theater critic. (And if they can resurrect Kerr, can they bring back Al Hirschfeld, too?)

by Anonymousreply 377September 10, 2020 6:52 PM

Remember when Margo Jefferson was the second string theatre critic? That was a fuckin nightmare....Speaking of deposed TIMES theatre critics, did Isherwood's firing ever go to arbitration? What happened?

by Anonymousreply 378September 10, 2020 7:00 PM

R375 Gavin Creel is absent on the (one-and-only widely-circulated) videos of "Dolly!" with Bette and Bernadette. There are, however, three with Donna Murphy, and Creel does manage to appear on the first two.

by Anonymousreply 379September 10, 2020 7:01 PM

r365 - But when Gwen wobbled with her legs she was magic, r365. Actually I found her to have a very warm and winning musical theater voice and it wasn't all that wobbly in the '50s.

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by Anonymousreply 380September 10, 2020 7:08 PM

and...

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by Anonymousreply 381September 10, 2020 7:09 PM

Als is Black. It will be him.

by Anonymousreply 382September 10, 2020 7:18 PM

There has to be a part for ME in Follies. I would make sure it was a financial hit, unlike the other lame productions.

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by Anonymousreply 383September 10, 2020 7:29 PM

Dame Diana....like it was.

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by Anonymousreply 384September 10, 2020 7:34 PM

Miss Campion's soprano range...

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by Anonymousreply 385September 10, 2020 7:45 PM

Wha....wha....???

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by Anonymousreply 386September 10, 2020 7:52 PM

[quote]Actually I found her to have a very warm and winning musical theater voice and it wasn't all that wobbly in the '50s.

All that vibrato made theater patrons seasick. I actually think the wobble in later years came because she was a high-vibrato singer. The vibrato turned into wobble.

by Anonymousreply 387September 10, 2020 8:08 PM

Oh, here's that Cavett interview with Shirley Booth I watched a while back.

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by Anonymousreply 388September 10, 2020 8:09 PM

Re the question of there being no contemporary black theatre stars who could do Follies, Cynthia Erivo as Phyllis and Audra as Sally. Someone already mentioned Brian Stokes Mitchell as Ben, although he’s going to age out of being right for it soon.

by Anonymousreply 389September 10, 2020 9:06 PM

Gwen's voice started off quite strong in "Damn Yankees" and she even had some head voice in her one sung recorded song in "Can-Can". She was a wonderful singing actress, as well as of course, an incredible dancer. She studied with Sanford Meisner and got reviews for "New Girl in Town" that compared her Anna Christie favorably to Greta Garbo's! So her voice was tired by "Chicago" -- she was otherwise terrific.

by Anonymousreply 390September 10, 2020 9:21 PM

R386, that was in January at the Montalban in LA.

by Anonymousreply 391September 10, 2020 9:26 PM

There are no stars on Broadway these days. Even Peters and LuPone can't guarantee a big turnout. This is why they always end up casting big movie or TV stars to step into shows if they want to make money. Sometimes, they're perfect for the roles anyway on top of being big box office bait like Bette Midler in Dolly and, sometimes, they're an untalented Real Housewife stepping into Chicago for a month or so to give business a boost.

A lot of the younger performers are very talented in a bland way, but none of them are stars or have enough charisma to carry a show. They can sing, act, and dance as well as one another but none of them stand out. Someone like Gavin Creel or Jonathan Groff come to mind. They're undeniably talented, but I never remember their performances after the show has been over for an hour or two. They leave no impression except that they didn't embarrass themselves and sang in key.

by Anonymousreply 392September 10, 2020 9:27 PM

Gwen sounded like a granny on the Sweet Charity OBC. It's especially obvious when compared to Juliet Prowse on the OLC. Verdon is still her endearing self but it takes me out of the story to think Granny is on the game...

by Anonymousreply 393September 10, 2020 9:28 PM

The Apples - Play One.

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by Anonymousreply 394September 10, 2020 9:29 PM

The (fucking) Gabriels - Play two.

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by Anonymousreply 395September 10, 2020 9:31 PM

The Gabriels - Play Three.

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by Anonymousreply 396September 10, 2020 9:33 PM

[quote] [R386], that was in January at the Montalban in LA.

And it was a huge flop. They canceled a few performances due to lackluster ticket sales and the thing only ran for two weeks to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 397September 10, 2020 10:07 PM

You mean the Huntington Hartford, r391.

by Anonymousreply 398September 10, 2020 10:15 PM

Mount Rushmore

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by Anonymousreply 399September 10, 2020 10:39 PM

Women Behind Bars was produced to be videoed. It was a big, glossy production with a great cast, and cameras everywhere.

They even asked the audience to stay for reaction shots.

I do look forward to seeing the video, but the show has not aged well.

by Anonymousreply 400September 10, 2020 10:47 PM

[quote]You mean the Huntington Hartford

I only go back to the "Doolittle" era, r398.

by Anonymousreply 401September 10, 2020 11:21 PM

[quote]Cynthia Erivo as Phyllis and Audra as Sally...

You've got backward R389. Cynthia would be a terrific Sally, and Audra would be her match as Phyllis (if only she could dance...)

by Anonymousreply 402September 10, 2020 11:27 PM

r402

she could do ah but underneath or uptown dowtown(which has one of my favorite Sondheim lyrics even though it's a n embarrassing lyric) which have their charm

by Anonymousreply 403September 10, 2020 11:40 PM

[quote]Live theater will always be around, in some form. But it no longer has any economic importance. And without it, not much happens there.

Well, that's not true. Theater is still (obviously) tremendously important to NYC economically, as has become all the more evident in the current crisis. The profits to be earned on Broadway are obviously far smaller than the potential profits from film, TV, and other media, but that is not news.

[quote]Merman had more than just power. She didn't sing softly very often (and her soft was probably ten times louder than anyone else's), but I think she sounds lovely singing Gypsy's "Small World" and some of the love songs in Annie Get Your Gun.

I generally agree with you about Merman, but it is still true that she almost never sang softly and lyrically. As evidenced by a live recording of her in GYPSY, she sings "Small World" VERY differently on the cast album than she did in the show, and even the arrangement and orchestration is different.

by Anonymousreply 404September 11, 2020 12:34 AM

[quote]All that vibrato made theater patrons seasick. I actually think the wobble in later years came because she was a high-vibrato singer. The vibrato turned into wobble.

You don't really know what you're talking about. If you listen to Verdon's singing on her earlier cast recordings, like CAN-CAN and DAMN YANKEES, she was not a "high-vibrato singer" in those days. Her severe vocal deterioration in her later years was for other reasons.

[quote]A lot of the younger performers are very talented in a bland way, but none of them are stars or have enough charisma to carry a show. They can sing, act, and dance as well as one another but none of them stand out. Someone like Gavin Creel or Jonathan Groff come to mind. They're undeniably talented, but I never remember their performances after the show has been over for an hour or two. They leave no impression except that they didn't embarrass themselves and sang in key.

Jonathan Groff is a big theater star, as evidenced by the sold-out status of LITTLE SHOP while he was in it. He also sold huge lots of tickets to a whole new audience at the 92Y when he did that Bobby Darin show there. Gavin Creel may not sell lots of tickets on his name alone, but has exceptionally beautiful singing voice and sings very well in several different styles, plus he's a very appealing actor.

by Anonymousreply 405September 11, 2020 1:38 AM

The majority of people in musical theatre "perform." And that is not acting.

by Anonymousreply 406September 11, 2020 1:46 AM

It won’t be Als; it will be a woman.

by Anonymousreply 407September 11, 2020 2:05 AM

Jackee!

by Anonymousreply 408September 11, 2020 2:11 AM

[quote]The majority of people in musical theatre "perform." And that is not acting.

That's a whopping generalization, and a silly and disrespectful one. Of course, the right style of acting for a show depends on the style of that particular show. The acting required for DEAR EVAN HANSEN is a lot different than the style that's required and appropriate for THE BOOK OF MORMON, or for that matter, for CHICAGO or THE MUSIC MAN.

by Anonymousreply 409September 11, 2020 2:15 AM

[quote] You've got backward

I don’t think so, Cynthia Erivo is sleek beautiful, and arrogant. She’s a Phyllis. Audra is given to slight overweight and can easily play vulnerable. Plus Audra’s voice is more suited to Sally’s “soprano-with-some-major-low-notes” range.

by Anonymousreply 410September 11, 2020 2:16 AM

Perhaps,R409. But in any style, the truth of the character being portrayed has to come through or there is nothing but performance. It might as well be baton twirling.

by Anonymousreply 411September 11, 2020 2:17 AM

The only way Cynthia Erivo could play Phyllis is if "Sally" was in a wheelchair. Cyn is a midget.

by Anonymousreply 412September 11, 2020 2:18 AM

[quote] Her severe vocal deterioration in her later years was for other reasons.

Primarily smoking.

by Anonymousreply 413September 11, 2020 2:19 AM

r409 singers who want to be onstage often THINK they can act, but the majority have no idea how to truly inhabit a character.

by Anonymousreply 414September 11, 2020 2:20 AM

R409 the difference between those styles, for most musical theater performers, is how loud they are and how often they let themselves face front.

by Anonymousreply 415September 11, 2020 2:22 AM

[quote]Singers who want to be onstage often THINK they can act, but the majority have no idea how to truly inhabit a character.

"The majority?" Have you done a study of this? How much a of a majority? 51 percent? 63 percent? 90 percent? Please enlighten us.

by Anonymousreply 416September 11, 2020 2:58 AM

r416 works at Telsey

by Anonymousreply 417September 11, 2020 3:03 AM

R414 is the typical DL theatre queen who makes pronouncements and deigns to declare to us his ultimate, & only correct, opinion on what bad actors musical theatre actors are,

by Anonymousreply 418September 11, 2020 4:16 AM

[quote]R373 remember when the Tonys created a Best Replacement category circa 2006 but didn't nominate anyone that year. By the following season, they had already eliminated the category. WTF was that all about?

Rudeness!

by Anonymousreply 419September 11, 2020 5:29 AM

R418 musical theater fosters a culture of performative acting. People who only know that world learn bad habits. Not all are this way, there are some phenomenal actors who also do musicals. But for the most part, their idea of acting is, in my opinion, inferior. There are some great voices, though.

by Anonymousreply 420September 11, 2020 6:52 AM

r413

who are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 421September 11, 2020 11:09 AM

Cynthia Erivo is 33 and looks about 25 onstage - why is anyone suggesting her for Follies? Sharon Clarke on the other hand would be an interesting Sally, she was great in Caroline or Change.

Can Viola Davis sing? She would act the shit out of Gypsy.

Cicely Tyson lip-synching to Audra doing One More Kiss for the movie, honey!

by Anonymousreply 422September 11, 2020 11:55 AM

Many musical theater performers act very well when singing, but fall flat delivering lines. It must be their musical theater training, where the emphasis is almost exclusively on acting the song.

by Anonymousreply 423September 11, 2020 12:08 PM

But what of style and idiosyncrasy and star quality? Can it be taught? I've heard directors complain that it seems to be "trained away" in some musical theatre programs. At the same time, remember when directors used to be able truly to help an actor craft a performance?

by Anonymousreply 424September 11, 2020 1:25 PM

Depressing news...

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by Anonymousreply 425September 11, 2020 2:35 PM

It would be weird for the NYT to add a second full-time theater critic at a time when there's no theater to review. I still haven't figured out what the two full-time movie critics are doing with their time.

by Anonymousreply 426September 11, 2020 2:39 PM

The coverage about Brantley's departure was clear. They will name a replacement eventually, but will take their time in doing so, due to the pandemic and the lack of need for two full-time co-critics.

by Anonymousreply 427September 11, 2020 2:45 PM

Coming Attractions...

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by Anonymousreply 428September 11, 2020 3:33 PM

Fun fact from Andrew Lloyd Webber's autobiography.

In the original recording of Tell Me On A Sunday, Sheldon Bloom's secretary was voiced by DL fave Elaine Stritch!

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by Anonymousreply 429September 11, 2020 3:38 PM

Highly appropriate for a Theatre Gossip thread subtitled "Finishing the Hate," the following was Tweeted by someone yesterday: "Notice how only white people are sending Ben Brantley off with support. That’s who he wrote for, no one else, and that has been the problem the entire time that you all willfully ignore. This is actually gaslighting tbh."

Aside from everything else, I have no idea what "gaslighting" is supposed to mean in this context.

[quote]Many musical theater performers act very well when singing, but fall flat delivering lines. It must be their musical theater training, where the emphasis is almost exclusively on acting the song.

Can you name a few examples of any successful, well-known performers whom you think fit into this category? Because I'm having trouble thinking of any. With such a tremendous talent pool and so many people who can act and sing exceptionally well (and maybe also dance), there is literally no need to hire anyone who can't do both.

by Anonymousreply 430September 11, 2020 3:45 PM

[quote]"Notice how only white people are sending Ben Brantley off with support.

No, I didn't notice. Only radical leftists; they are the ones who notice a person's skin color, first and foremost.

by Anonymousreply 431September 11, 2020 3:56 PM

[quote]No, I didn't notice. Only radical leftists; they are the ones who notice a person's skin color, first and foremost.

Bingo.

by Anonymousreply 432September 11, 2020 4:25 PM

Anyone who claims they do not notice a person's skin color or gender is lying.

by Anonymousreply 433September 11, 2020 4:48 PM

[quote]They're undeniably talented, but I never remember their performances after the show has been over for an hour or two. They leave no impression except that they didn't embarrass themselves and sang in key.

My feelings about Jessie Mueller.

by Anonymousreply 434September 11, 2020 5:26 PM

[quote]I have no idea what "gaslighting" is supposed to mean in this context.

It's become the new "mansplaining"

by Anonymousreply 435September 11, 2020 5:26 PM

Can’t we just hate Ben because he was a star-fucker?

And not in a good way.

by Anonymousreply 436September 11, 2020 5:33 PM

[quote]My feelings about Jessie Mueller.

Jessie Mueller is one of the most talented performers ever to appear on Broadway. She apparently can sing and act in just about any style, and has been brilliant in roles ranging from Carole King in BEAUTIFUL to Carrie Pipperidge in CAROUSEL. (I didn't love her as Julie Jordan in CAROUSEL, but that wasn't her fault.) A similar type of talent is Stephanie Block. That kind of great, chameleon-like talent is a different kind of talent than that possessed by people like Ethel Merman or Patti LuPone or Carol Channing, but it's not any lesser, just different. And if you can't appreciate it, I weep for you.

[quote]I have no idea what "gaslighting" is supposed to mean in this context. It's become the new "mansplaining"

I looked up "gaslighting" or "gaslight," and it means what I thought it meant: "to manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." How that applies to Ben Brantley in any way is beyond me.

by Anonymousreply 437September 11, 2020 5:34 PM

You know what we haven't discussed in a while? High school productions of FOLLIES with bad wigs.

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by Anonymousreply 438September 11, 2020 5:40 PM

The term comes from an old film of the same name (alternatively called "Angel Street". Very creepy.

by Anonymousreply 439September 11, 2020 5:41 PM

Ethel Merman, Patti LuPone and Carol Channing were all personalities. Same with Bernadette Peters. They're good when they stay in their wheelhouse, but they're not really actresses who create different characters.

by Anonymousreply 440September 11, 2020 5:42 PM

Great that you looked up gaslighting 437 because that must be how you formed your opinion about Jessie Mueller.

If she is one of the most talented then Broadway needs to do some digging and find more talent. And if you notice I did not say she was not talented, just that she is not memorable.

I agree she is not a Julie Jordan, she made a much better Carrie Pipperidge but there are probably people that could do it better. She can switch singing styles and she sounds good in each style but that does not mean she has any IT factor as a performer.

This is what I said

[quote]undeniably talented, but I never remember their performances after the show has been over for an hour or two. They leave no impression except that they didn't embarrass themselves and sang in key.

She's great when you are watching her perform but forgettable after.

by Anonymousreply 441September 11, 2020 5:42 PM

I think we've had more than enough YouTube examples of high school productions of "Follies" with bad wigs.

by Anonymousreply 442September 11, 2020 5:43 PM

If the Times hires the uber awful Elizabeth Vinctenwhateverthefuck, I'm cancelling my subscription. She is literally the worst. Read the "Producers" style rave she gave the middling "Something Rotten" and you'll see what we have to deal with. She also wrote an essay celebrating crap like "Bat Out of Hell." Please Times, find another woman....She's just terrible.

by Anonymousreply 443September 11, 2020 5:45 PM

Here's a question for discerning Broadway fans. In Andrew Lloyd Webber's book, he says that reviews for Evita on Broadway were mostly negative and after the opening, business was slow at first. He writes:

[quote]Broadway folklore has it that it was Robert [Stigwood] who turned Evita around with the first ever TV advertising campaign for a musical.

But Evita wasn't the first, was it? There were commercials for A Chorus Line, Pippin, Chicago and others. Weren't they playing before the Evita commercial (which I admit is my favorite of the Broadway commercials).

by Anonymousreply 444September 11, 2020 5:47 PM

R405 Agree about Gwen's voice -- it's more the progressive effects of cigarette smoking over the years, but she started out with a big voice belting out "A Little Brains-A Little Talent" and "Whatever Lola Wants" in "Damn Yankees" before body mics yet. Jonathan Groff may have sold tickets for "Little Shop" but that was for an off-Broadway house, quite a bit smaller than a Broadway house, so while he has a following, it's untested as to how big it is.

by Anonymousreply 445September 11, 2020 5:48 PM

[quote]The term comes from an old film of the same name (alternatively called "Angel Street". Very creepy.

Two old films, actually, both titled "Gaslight": A British version released in 1940, and the Hollywood version from 1944 that starred Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer and marked the movie debut of Angela Lansbury, who received an Oscar nomination as best supporting actress for her performance.

by Anonymousreply 446September 11, 2020 5:49 PM

[quote]I think we've had more than enough YouTube examples of high school productions of "Follies" with bad wigs.

Yes, please from now on only post high school productions of "Follies" with good-to-excellent wigs.

And not videos where the school slut is playing Carlotta.

by Anonymousreply 447September 11, 2020 5:53 PM

You can tell because she keeps screaming, [italic]”Line!”

by Anonymousreply 448September 11, 2020 5:53 PM

No problem, r442. We can totally move on to high school productions of Sunset Blvd....

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by Anonymousreply 449September 11, 2020 5:56 PM

I hate my phone!

——————————-

[quote]r429 Fun fact: In the original recording of Tell Me On A Sunday, Sheldon Bloom's secretary was voiced by DL fave Elaine Stritch!

You can tell because she keeps screaming, “Line!”

by Anonymousreply 450September 11, 2020 5:57 PM

Stephanie J Block is truly an example of an incredible actress with an incredible voice. Love her.

by Anonymousreply 451September 11, 2020 5:59 PM

R446 Tony Winner Ingrid Berman for "Joan of Lorraine" also won Best Actress Oscar for "Gaslight"

by Anonymousreply 452September 11, 2020 6:03 PM

[quote]Two old films, actually, both titled "Gaslight": A British version released in 1940, and the Hollywood version from 1944

The original London stage play was titled "Gas Light." For Broadway, for whatever reason, the title was changed to "Angel Street." Because of that, the 1940 film was released as "Gaslight" in the UK and "Angel Street" in the US. The 1944 film was released everywhere as "Gaslight."

by Anonymousreply 453September 11, 2020 6:08 PM

R 444 Pippin is the musical that is usually cited as turning it box office around with one of the first (if not the first) commercial for a Bway show.

Evita had a great commercial but after Pippin, Chicago, Sarava! etc the claim that it was "the first" is bizarre.

by Anonymousreply 454September 11, 2020 6:09 PM

The pile-on on Ben Brantley continues, and it's delicious. At least to some of us.

Here's composer Stephen Trask (HEDWIG & THE ANGRY INCH).

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by Anonymousreply 455September 11, 2020 6:15 PM

What about discussing all-black high school versions of Follies with bad wigs?

by Anonymousreply 456September 11, 2020 6:15 PM

"this drunken, hateful prune..."

by Anonymousreply 457September 11, 2020 6:16 PM

Steven Trask. Another Broadway one-hit wonder...Everything since Hedwig has sucked/tanked.

by Anonymousreply 458September 11, 2020 6:17 PM

Maybe Trask should write better music

by Anonymousreply 459September 11, 2020 6:28 PM

Tony Awards 1974 Bette Midler receives a special Tony presented by Johnny Carson

Man oh man has her face changed. She got so much "baby fat" on her face in the clip. I think she looks better now.

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by Anonymousreply 460September 11, 2020 6:28 PM

And just exactly what would you say to us if we fucking ignored "a person's skin color, first and foremost"?

Damned if I do. Double damned if I don't.

by Anonymousreply 461September 11, 2020 6:32 PM

R458 Has he done anything since Hedwig? I know he's scored some films, but has he tried any other shows?

by Anonymousreply 462September 11, 2020 6:32 PM

This old blog post about Brantley's misogyny is making the rounds on social media as well.

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by Anonymousreply 463September 11, 2020 6:33 PM

Whether one agrees with these POVs or not...

The more I see of this online, the more I think these contributed to Brantley's stepping down.

Ding. Dong.

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by Anonymousreply 464September 11, 2020 6:38 PM

[quote]People aren't celebrating Ben Brantley's departure because he gave their show a bad review. They're celebrating because he was a hateful person who bullied people with his sexist, racist and transphobic comments. Jesse Green should join him in stepping down

by Anonymousreply 465September 11, 2020 6:39 PM

[quote] R 444 Pippin is the musical that is usually cited as turning it box office around with one of the first (if not the first) commercial for a Bway show.

Pippin was the first to feature performance footage, but I think 1776 might have actually been the first. I vaguely recall that it was a sort of primitive animation of the logo, with the eagle popping out of the egg. Maybe someone else remembers it as well?

by Anonymousreply 466September 11, 2020 6:51 PM

I nominate Alex Witchel for the new NY Times theater critic.

by Anonymousreply 467September 11, 2020 6:58 PM

The issue with modern Broadway performers is that most of them have trained at an arts school where they're told their first jobs will be in the chorus, so they'd better learn how to blend in. Don't be too unique or interesting as it steals focus. They spend most of their early careers doing just that, so when they graduate to lead roles, they're still blending into the scenery.

They're professional and respectable, but there's nothing interesting about them. It's like going to see a decent high school or college performance most of the time where many of the performers have talent, but you don't remember much about them afterwards and don't leave talking or thinking about the performances for days and days afterwards.

I do wonder what would happen if a Merman, Verdon, or Channing showed up a Broadway audition these days? Would they even know what to do with them?

by Anonymousreply 468September 11, 2020 7:02 PM

So is Fauci saying we won't have theater until mid-2022? Because that's what it sounds like.

by Anonymousreply 469September 11, 2020 7:08 PM

Merman wouldn't even be allowed to audition. She would be "typed" out.

by Anonymousreply 470September 11, 2020 7:17 PM

oh god r464 article is drivel.

by Anonymousreply 471September 11, 2020 7:19 PM

R461, I cannot believe I am saying this, but you should indeed ignore "a person's skin color, first and foremost" when hiring, when evaluating personal qualities, and when evaluating the ideas and opinions of a person.

However, to claim that you do not notice skin color is usually a red flag, since it means you are either lying or not taking someone in. You take in hair color, accent, height and many other physical attributes, but ignore them as indicators of personal worth. To claim you do not notice skin color would indicate that it is a physical attribute you cannot notice without taking it as an indication of someone's value.

by Anonymousreply 472September 11, 2020 7:22 PM

I think when people say they don't notice skin color what they really mean is it doesn't matter to them. No one *doesn't* notice skin color.

by Anonymousreply 473September 11, 2020 7:24 PM

[quote]I nominate Alex Witchel for the new NY Times theater critic.

Is Walter Monheit available, or does he just do film?

by Anonymousreply 474September 11, 2020 7:26 PM

[quote]I think when people say they don't notice skin color what they really mean is it doesn't matter to them. No one *doesn't* notice skin color.

So what you say is, "I notice skin color, but it doesn't matter to me."

If you aren't comfortable saying you notice skin color, maybe you have a little notion that it matters more to you than you ever thought it did.

by Anonymousreply 475September 11, 2020 7:42 PM

[quote]I cannot believe I am saying this, but you should indeed ignore "a person's skin color, first and foremost" when hiring, when evaluating personal qualities, and when evaluating the ideas and opinions of a person.

100% in agreement r472.

by Anonymousreply 476September 11, 2020 7:43 PM

it's not all that important, r446, but the U.K. film Gaslight, based on a Patrick Hamilton novel, was originally released in the U.S. as Angel Street.

by Anonymousreply 477September 11, 2020 7:45 PM

Oh, sorry--I see someone else already offered the correction to 446's post.

by Anonymousreply 478September 11, 2020 7:49 PM

Bless.

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by Anonymousreply 479September 11, 2020 7:51 PM

ahhhhhhh. just lovely.

by Anonymousreply 480September 11, 2020 7:59 PM

Betty rehearsin'...

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by Anonymousreply 481September 11, 2020 8:24 PM

Did somebody say....

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by Anonymousreply 482September 11, 2020 8:36 PM

From Here To Eternity - Act One.

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by Anonymousreply 483September 11, 2020 8:40 PM

From Here To Eternity - Act Two.

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by Anonymousreply 484September 11, 2020 8:42 PM

[quote]Great that you looked up gaslighting 437 because that must be how you formed your opinion about Jessie Mueller. If she is one of the most talented then Broadway needs to do some digging and find more talent. And if you notice I did not say she was not talented, just that she is not memorable.

In my opinion, Mueller has given very memorable performances in every show I've seen her in, i.e., every major show she has done in NYC. Her performances are memorable in the sense of an extremely talented actor creating fully realized characterizations in a wide variety of roles while doing a superb job of singing songs written in wildly different styles, as I mentioned. Your definition of "memorable" seems to be a performance given by someone like Carol Channing or Ethel Merman or Patti LuPone, all of whom have very strong, distinctive styles of performing that don't vary much from one role to the next, and who to a certain extent will bend every role to fit their own personalities and vocal styles. To me, that's a very different kind of performance than the ones given by a Jessie Mueller or a Stephanie J. Block, but not necessarily "better" or more memorable.

And P.S., bitch, I already knew what "gaslighting" meant but I looked it up just to be 100 percent sure I was right before posting. And I still say that, however one feels about Ben Brantley, I do not understand how "gaslighting" has anything to do with any aspect of that situation or discussion.

by Anonymousreply 485September 11, 2020 8:47 PM

R444, just one more example of ALW talking out of his ass. OF COURSE there were TV commercials for Broadway shows before EVITA.

[quote]Agree about Gwen's voice -- it's more the progressive effects of cigarette smoking over the years, but she started out with a big voice belting out "A Little Brains-A Little Talent" and "Whatever Lola Wants" in "Damn Yankees" before body mics yet. Jonathan Groff may have sold tickets for "Little Shop" but that was for an off-Broadway house, quite a bit smaller than a Broadway house, so while he has a following, it's untested as to how big it is.

I didn't mention smoking as a cause of Gwen's vocal deterioration because I couldn't immediately find documentation of whether or not she herself smoked. But even if she didn't, she was obviously around heavy smokers -- including Fosse -- for long periods of time in an era when people could actually smoke DURING REHEARSALS of shows. True, there has been no test as to how big Groff's talent is (!!!!), but it seems pretty large to me, a lot larger since the two FROZENS and his TV shows LOOKING and MINDHUNTER than it was before that.

by Anonymousreply 486September 11, 2020 9:00 PM

[quote]R481 Betty rehearsin'...

That stringy, worthless cunt.

by Anonymousreply 487September 11, 2020 9:50 PM

Betty & Dot

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by Anonymousreply 488September 11, 2020 11:06 PM

R463, how are any of those comments by Brantley even remotely misogynistic? ?

Just because they mention women?? That blog post is ridiculous

by Anonymousreply 489September 11, 2020 11:20 PM

From the article linked to at R464:

[quote]Why Kushner chose to position Belize as a life-giver and a death-mourner to the openly racist and closeted Cohn mystifies me, and I find it profoundly problematic.

It mystifies you because your capacity for critical thinking is non-existent, and you find it profoundly problematic because......you're an idiot, reactionary SJW.

by Anonymousreply 490September 12, 2020 12:41 AM

[quote]I do wonder what would happen if a Merman, Verdon, or Channing showed up a Broadway audition these days? Would they even know what to do with them?

They would almost certainly have no careers today, and no one would have any idea what to do with them. But it's also a pointless question, because no musical theater material today is crafted for those kinds of voices and talents.

[quote]How are any of those comments by Brantley even remotely misogynistic? Just because they mention women?? That blog post is ridiculous

Agreed. As ridiculous as the recent insults hurled at the creators of the musical RAGTIME simply because -- they're white, and how dare they write a show that's partly about black people. The theater world has really gone mad, along with most of the rest of the world.

[quote]This old blog post about Brantley's misogyny is making the rounds on social media as well.

Please note that "the old blog post" in question was written by someone willing to identify her only as "Stefani," who is obviously a moron. And though she would probably say my calling her a moron is misogynistic, it's not because she's (presumably) a woman, it's because she's....a moron. Good luck in getting that job writing for the NY Times, Stef!

by Anonymousreply 491September 12, 2020 1:02 AM

Smith! Foy! Lungs!

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by Anonymousreply 492September 12, 2020 3:23 AM

You can tell the MT people who aren't real actors when they appear in a play and can't quite do it. Martin managed "Kind Sir" and "The Skin of Our Teeth" and a heartfelt Emily in an excerpt from "Our Town." Verdon had a strong late career in supporting roles in film. Lupone has proven herself in many plays and has had Mamet write roles for her. Channing did her share of plays and even when the plays were poorly reviewed, she won raves. Stritch did plays as often as musicals. Tony winners Diahann Carroll and Leslie Uggams both have non-musical television chapters in their careers that are as big as anything they did in a musical on Broadway.

You simply don't see this from the crop of women who were young in the late 80s-90s and are now mature leading ladies. Or the juveniles and leading men from then either. They may have their Varese Sarabande or DRG solo CDs that show many sides of their musical talents, but you don't see them carrying major productions of plays. Is it the business or is it them?

To this day there are Tony winners in musical categories who can't make it in a play, they don't dive deep enough into the material or they can't keep a scene bubbling past a page or two. I saw a Tony winner who won Best Supporting Actress in a Musical for a comedic role in an actual (non-musical) comedy play off-Broadway and she was totally unfunny and lost. Chenoweth, Ramirez, and Krakowski are three exceptions who broke through.

by Anonymousreply 493September 12, 2020 3:44 AM

I saw that From Here to Eternity, and was reminded anew that it was shite!

by Anonymousreply 494September 12, 2020 5:04 AM

Timmy is bringing it back.

by Anonymousreply 495September 12, 2020 7:03 AM

[quote]I couldn't immediately find documentation of whether or not she herself smoked

Are you kiding? Gwen Verdon and Bob Fosse both smoked like chimneys.

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by Anonymousreply 496September 12, 2020 10:02 AM

Martin's Our Town...

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by Anonymousreply 497September 12, 2020 2:43 PM

Viv's Skin/Teeth...

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by Anonymousreply 498September 12, 2020 2:52 PM

Was Merman a smoker?

by Anonymousreply 499September 12, 2020 2:58 PM

r498 - How the hell do you musicalize *that*?

by Anonymousreply 500September 12, 2020 3:01 PM

Poorly r500.

by Anonymousreply 501September 12, 2020 3:03 PM

I've never seen Emily Webb played by a middle-aged woman before. But Mary was rather touching.

by Anonymousreply 502September 12, 2020 3:04 PM

[quote] I saw a Tony winner who won Best Supporting Actress in a Musical for a comedic role in an actual (non-musical) comedy play off-Broadway and she was totally unfunny and lost.

And that was.....

by Anonymousreply 503September 12, 2020 7:37 PM

One presumes that Asheilgh desperate ho.

by Anonymousreply 504September 12, 2020 7:42 PM

Kander and Ebb did a musical version of “The Skin of Our Teeth” that had two productions AMDA couple of workshops. At the Signature in Arlington, Bebe Neuwirth was famously fired early in rehearsals (as Sabina) and replaced with Sheree Renee Scott. Dorothy Loudon played the fortune teller. Then it was done in Connecticut, with Cady Huffman as Sabina and Eartha Kitt as the Fortune Teller. It has one fabulous song, “At the Rialto,” for Sabina. (Another, “Someday, Pasadena,” was cut after Virginia). The rest of the score is decent. The rights expired, though, so it’s dead and buried now.

by Anonymousreply 505September 12, 2020 7:53 PM

Kaye

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by Anonymousreply 506September 12, 2020 8:03 PM

Cady's At the Rialto...

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by Anonymousreply 507September 12, 2020 8:08 PM

[quote] One presumes that Asheilgh desperate ho.

Ashleigh won her Tony for a play, not a musical.

by Anonymousreply 508September 12, 2020 8:40 PM

And boy was she brilliant off-Broadway in DOGFIGHT. Not her, I presume.

by Anonymousreply 509September 12, 2020 8:53 PM

Kaye - The Show Goes On.

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by Anonymousreply 510September 12, 2020 8:53 PM

Memoirs of an Asian Football Casual.

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by Anonymousreply 511September 12, 2020 8:55 PM

Has anyone ever heard the score that Jones and Schmidt wrote for their musical version of Our Town?

by Anonymousreply 512September 12, 2020 8:56 PM

R512. Yes, I saw the show, “Grover’s Corners” at the Marriott Lincolnshire. The music was quite unmemorable. And I love the play “Our Town.”

by Anonymousreply 513September 12, 2020 9:02 PM

[quote]Ashleigh won her Tony for a play, not a musical.

Who are we talking about? Annaleigh Ashford?

by Anonymousreply 514September 12, 2020 9:18 PM

There are two or three really good songs in “Grover’s Corners,” especially a duet for George and Emily called “I Notice You.” But beyond that, I agree with r513 - it’s not a memorable score.

by Anonymousreply 515September 12, 2020 9:19 PM

How many Tony winning Annaleighs are there, dear?

by Anonymousreply 516September 12, 2020 9:38 PM

If you can access Larry Guittard’s Facebook page, checkout the “conversation” he had with Christopher Guard (Erich/Henrik) on the day Diana Rigg died, regarding the film of Night Music. Apparently Guittard does *not* like Len Cariou, and having Cariou take over as Henrik was his “worst nightmare.” But the juiciest stuff is about Robert Stephens, who was fired because he was constantly drunk.

by Anonymousreply 517September 12, 2020 9:56 PM

[quote]Yes, I saw the show, “Grover’s Corners” at the Marriott Lincolnshire. The music was quite unmemorable. And I love the play “Our Town.”

At one point late in her career, Mary Martin was attached to Jones and Schmidt's musical "Our Town." As the Stage Manager, not as an elderly Emily.

by Anonymousreply 518September 12, 2020 10:16 PM

Not constantly drunk. Drunk on his first day of shooting.

by Anonymousreply 519September 12, 2020 10:16 PM

There was, of course, a musical version of "Our Town" written for television in 1955. Frank Sinatra was the Stage Manager, Paul Newman was George and Eva Marie Saint was Emily. The songs, written by Jimmy van Heusen and Sammy Cahn, included "Love and Marriage" (the title of the second act of the play), which became the theme song to "Married With Children."

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by Anonymousreply 520September 12, 2020 10:22 PM

Cariou is a bastard. I had to deal with him when I worked for his agent.

by Anonymousreply 521September 12, 2020 10:24 PM

[quote]Not constantly drunk. Drunk on his first day of shooting.

No. Constantly. He arrived, straight from the plane, drunk. He was charming, but drunk, every time they saw him.

by Anonymousreply 522September 12, 2020 10:31 PM

I had such a crush on Laurence Guittard while I was growing up listening to cast recordings. Curly. Carl-Magnus, and Fredrik. Out, heir to a fortune, and a part of Broadway history. Isn’t this the gay dream?

by Anonymousreply 523September 12, 2020 10:35 PM

Only if had also played Rose and/or Phyllis, r523.

by Anonymousreply 524September 12, 2020 10:47 PM

I'm STILL big...

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by Anonymousreply 525September 12, 2020 11:17 PM

Lemme show ya, kid!

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by Anonymousreply 526September 12, 2020 11:18 PM

There was a televised musical version of "Our Town," starring Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint. Frank Sinatra played the Stage Manager and introduced the Cahn/Van Heusen standard "Love and Marriage" in the production.

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by Anonymousreply 527September 12, 2020 11:27 PM

Sorry, R516 .... I didn't refresh before posting.

by Anonymousreply 528September 12, 2020 11:28 PM

[quote]"Love and Marriage" which became the theme song to "Married With Children."

It also became "Soup and Sandwich," a song for Campbell's soup commercials in the late 60s.

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by Anonymousreply 529September 12, 2020 11:28 PM

[quote]How many Tony winning Annaleighs are there, dear?

Well, no one actually used the name Annaleigh in any of the previous posts. I thought someone was misspelling Ashley.

by Anonymousreply 530September 12, 2020 11:29 PM

R527, meet R520.

by Anonymousreply 531September 13, 2020 12:45 AM

Matchmaker, matchmaker, r531.

by Anonymousreply 532September 13, 2020 12:48 AM

R530 is correct. Ashleigh was the name used.

by Anonymousreply 533September 13, 2020 1:42 AM

From now on she shall be known as Annaford Ashleigh.

by Anonymousreply 534September 13, 2020 1:59 AM

Patti seems more Gina Lollobrigida than Norma Desmond in the r526 clip.

by Anonymousreply 535September 13, 2020 2:08 AM

It's just the Gina Lollobrigida in her soul, r535.

by Anonymousreply 536September 13, 2020 3:02 AM

I'm watching a 1968 episode of NYPD with Miss Donna McKechnie. It's a dreadful TV show and...she can't act, Zach.

by Anonymousreply 537September 13, 2020 3:49 AM

We all knew what he meant since there are ZERO Tony winning Ashleighs.

by Anonymousreply 538September 13, 2020 4:41 AM

Whatever happens to Broadway and future shows, classics must not be abandoned or not performed because of the new "wokeness." They are still works of art and deserve to be seen by a new audience. Songs like these must be preserved.

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by Anonymousreply 539September 13, 2020 3:07 PM

I met Brantley several years ago and he said that he would soon be the longest-running drama critic at the NYT, besting Brooks Atkinson's record. Did he do that? If not, he was probably pushed out. Or he was juat sick of writing Covid 19-era pieces on how he passed the time by watching ALL ABOUT EVE.

by Anonymousreply 540September 13, 2020 4:09 PM

I think Brooks Atkinson still bested him. Atkinson started as drama critic in 1925 and retired in 1960. In the 1940s, Atkinson served as a war correspondent in China, and then in Moscow, before returning to the critic position, so he didn't stay in the job for the entire 35 years, but I think was probably at it longer, ultimately. When you go back and read Atkinson's reviews, written in the days when critics wrote on deadline on opening night, it's quite remarkable how lucid and sharp his insights are, particularly with shows that would soon become classics.

by Anonymousreply 541September 13, 2020 6:14 PM

42nd Street 1986 - filmed for Japan TV.

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by Anonymousreply 542September 13, 2020 6:24 PM

Gonna *have* to watch!

The Brady Bunch

TODAY, ON KDOCDT3 56.3, 30 MIN 1971 TV-G

SEASON 3 • EPISODE 10 • HER SISTER'S SHADOW • COMEDY / FAMILY

The one that launched a thousand jokes: Jan auditions for the pep squad, hoping to outdo her supersister, “Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!” But when she gets cut, Jan pins her hopes on an essay contest that goes awry. Gwen Van Dam. Jan: Eve Plumb. Mike: Robert Reed...

by Anonymousreply 543September 13, 2020 7:34 PM

Overall, Atkinson was NYT drama critic for the longest time, but he switched from theater to cover the war and its aftermath for several years in the 40s, so Brantley's is the longest uninterrupted tenure (27 years).

by Anonymousreply 544September 13, 2020 8:11 PM

Don’t forget, Miscast 2020 is tonight at 7:45, streaming live!

by Anonymousreply 545September 13, 2020 9:25 PM

Miss Patrice. I can't believe I haven't run across this until now. She's actually a pretty good fit for the role. However you feel about her performance of the song, one can believe she's named Carlotta and has an active sex life with younger men.

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by Anonymousreply 546September 13, 2020 10:52 PM

Always love Patrice's belt. There's none of that gurgle you get from sopranos who try to make a belting sound. Love her opera cheat vowel applied to belting at the end - hee-yahhh-uh to get to the most open sound. And yeah, you buy her as Carlotta.

by Anonymousreply 547September 14, 2020 2:52 AM

I simply can't buy Karen Morrow as a Carlotta.

by Anonymousreply 548September 14, 2020 3:05 AM

Hey R505 how can we hear Someday, Pasadena?

I've been on an obscure K&E kick lately and recently discovered All My Friends Have Gone to California.

by Anonymousreply 549September 14, 2020 3:12 AM

My friends:

I have just posted a thread about a George Michael song I can never quite make out - entitled [bold]Patti LuPone “Diction” - George Michael Edition.[/bold]

Since those who frequent this thread are the specialists in music, I welcome any comments over there, if you are so inclined : )

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by Anonymousreply 550September 14, 2020 3:31 AM

Follies - the eyeglasses!

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by Anonymousreply 551September 14, 2020 4:41 AM

The lenses *must* be tinted. Pink....or perhaps bastard amber. I want to see life through FOLLIES-colored glasses.

by Anonymousreply 552September 14, 2020 2:02 PM

I'm thinking the Paul Rudnick "Coastal Elites" will be done on stage as soon as it's safe to do so. Let's just pray it isn't done at MTC, where Meadow will manage to fuck the whole thing up.

by Anonymousreply 553September 14, 2020 4:36 PM

It was originally slated for the Public, including very specific references in the text. If it’s relevant when people can go to theater, it will be at the Public.

by Anonymousreply 554September 14, 2020 4:47 PM

R554-I'm sure Bette won't be doing it on stage. Linda Lavin, maybe.

by Anonymousreply 555September 14, 2020 5:24 PM

Sadly, it's going to be relevant for a long, long, time.

by Anonymousreply 556September 14, 2020 5:25 PM

I just read a book called "Life Isn't Everything: Mike Nichols, As Remembered by 150 of His Closest Friends." There isn't a whole lot that could be considered gossip since the comments come from his friends, but some of it might be of interest here. Interestingly, Elaine May is not one of the 150 included in the book.

Manny Azenberg had some of the most gossipy comments. He said that Michael Kidd chose actors for his projects based on the "F.F." which stands for fuckabilty factor. Men or women. Manny thought that Nichols applied that to most of his casting choices too.

Nichols was the first director to get paid a million dollars for a film.

Nichols was the first stage director to get a 5 percent royalty, which he got for The Odd Couple. Neil Simon had to agree to give up some of his points.

Nichols originally cast Paul Simon in Catch 22, but Simon's part got cut before filming. Both Simon and Nichols admit that it was mostly Nichols' fault that S&G broke up.

Melanie Griffith was sometimes drunk or coked out of her mind during the filming of Working Girl. She admits this herself now. But she got so drunk one time that they lost a whole night of filming. She was billed $80,000 for the cost of that lost evening!

Nichols won acclaim for his London stage performance in the Wally Shawn The Designated Mourner, and after the run ended he appeared in a film version of it. Although it was shown in Europe and got good reviews, Nichols went to great lengths to keep it from being shown in the United States. No one knows why. Meryl Streep calls is "some of the best acting I've ever seen any man do."

by Anonymousreply 557September 14, 2020 7:40 PM

Designated Mourner is on DVD, although may be OOP.

by Anonymousreply 558September 14, 2020 7:45 PM

Does anybody ever think to go to Youtube?

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by Anonymousreply 559September 14, 2020 7:53 PM

Elaine...

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by Anonymousreply 560September 14, 2020 7:58 PM

LIFE ISN'T EVERYTHING excludes any mention of Mike's bisexuality. A big failing.

by Anonymousreply 561September 14, 2020 10:43 PM

[quote]Melanie Griffith was sometimes drunk or coked out of her mind during the filming of Working Girl. She admits this herself now. But she got so drunk one time that they lost a whole night of filming. She was billed $80,000 for the cost of that lost evening!

Incredible that she was such a mess, she couldn't even control herself enough to keep away from drugs and alcohol while filming her first big movie role. I've always thought she was the weak link in that movie anyway, too trashy and with little or no charm. The movie works but in spite of her, not partly because of her.

by Anonymousreply 562September 14, 2020 10:44 PM

Young Patrice...

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by Anonymousreply 563September 14, 2020 10:45 PM

Not Young Patrice...

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by Anonymousreply 564September 14, 2020 10:46 PM

Melanie Griffith is, was and always will be a terrible actress.

by Anonymousreply 565September 15, 2020 12:30 AM

Miscast 2020 is available to watch until Thursday. I don't quite get why they're only leaving it up until then, but there you go

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by Anonymousreply 566September 15, 2020 1:05 AM

R566, I never understand if these kind of comments are sincere or not. Did union and rights issues never occur to you? (Sound and video staff, musicians, etc.) Or that this even was a benefit, so they may not want to blow the money on longer term rights and fees?

by Anonymousreply 567September 15, 2020 1:16 AM

Is that Laverne Cox in the photo in R566?

by Anonymousreply 568September 15, 2020 1:17 AM

R567 If it were down to rights issues, why is it they can put it online for three days but not longer term? Instead of a bitchy little post like that, why don't you try explaining to me why fours days up is okay, but long term isn't?

by Anonymousreply 569September 15, 2020 1:33 AM

Because it costs more, R569.

Yes, shocking as it may be, rights in perpetuity cost more than rights for a few days.

Who could have imagined?

This is why when old films and television shows are released for DVD or streaming they do not have the original music. Because they only payed for a few broadcasts, not perpetuity.

by Anonymousreply 570September 15, 2020 1:44 AM

Union rules. SAG/AFTRA for the actors - not Equity. And most notably, the AFM (not NYC's local 802) for the musicians.

by Anonymousreply 571September 15, 2020 1:47 AM

R570 Would that have been so hard to say from the start? If you weren't so set on coming across as a cunt you might not have made yourself look like an idiot with "payed for a few broadcasts".

R571 Thank you. A shame they aren't willing to be flexible for a benefit, but I guess they don't want to risk setting a precedent.

by Anonymousreply 572September 15, 2020 1:51 AM

It's not that hard to download something from YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 573September 15, 2020 1:54 AM

R573 You say that, but Google Drive literally has a button saying Download, and some here were confused by that...

by Anonymousreply 574September 15, 2020 1:58 AM

[quote]Melanie Griffith is, was and always will be a terrible actress.

Agreed. But if it's true that she has ALSO been a mess from the beginning, in terms of drinking and using drugs during filming of a major movie, it's doubly amazing that she ever had any kind of a career. Also, I can't imagine why Mike Nichols would have ever put up with anything like that.

Does anyone have any theories as to why Antonio Banderas ever hooked up with MG in the first place, let alone stayed with her for so long? Can the sex have been THAT great?

by Anonymousreply 575September 15, 2020 2:02 AM

Most hilarious Melanie Griffith movie: Shining Through, where she plays an American woman who speaks German with a natural Berlin accent (because her mother was a Berliner) so she volunteers for a dangerous spy assignment in Berlin during WWII. She was hopelessly unconvincing, even though all her “German” scenes were done in English.

by Anonymousreply 576September 15, 2020 2:16 AM

R572, that is why music has been changed sometimes after the network broadcasts.

I am sorry, if I hurt your feelings. It never occurred to me that anyone would not understand how rights work. Or how fees to personnel would work.

by Anonymousreply 577September 15, 2020 2:23 AM

[quote] This is why when old films and television shows are released for DVD or streaming they do not have the original music.

Where on earth did you get this idea? I have yet to see an old film or television show without the original music. The issue, particularly with tv shows, is things like The Carol Burnett Show, or China Beach or Cold Case, where period pop songs were used throughout. In most cases, they just aren’t released to dvd or streaming (in the case of Burnett, her shows were originally released with only the skits, although a certain number have finally been released with the musical numbers).

by Anonymousreply 578September 15, 2020 2:49 AM

[quote]Most hilarious Melanie Griffith movie: Shining Through, where she plays an American woman who speaks German with a natural Berlin accent (because her mother was a Berliner) so she volunteers for a dangerous spy assignment in Berlin during WWII. She was hopelessly unconvincing, even though all her “German” scenes were done in English.

I have never seen that movie, but it's legendary. I remember the horrendous reviews when it came out. This is an honest question; Does anyone have any idea why that woman had a pretty good movie career for a while? Was EVERYONE screwing her?

[quote]This is why when old films and television shows are released for DVD or streaming they do not have the original music.

I also have read and heard of this happening, though I'm not sure how often it happens. I think it applies more to background music of TV shows and even sometimes the theme music, not to actual songs in TV shows or movies. I wish I could remember the examples I've read about.

by Anonymousreply 579September 15, 2020 3:55 AM

Griffith was probably best in the first half of "Something Wild". I never understood the critical raves for her OK performance in "Body Double".

by Anonymousreply 580September 15, 2020 4:34 AM

Can anyone share the Nt Cyrano....I have lost it.

by Anonymousreply 581September 15, 2020 11:35 AM

And the search function is off.

by Anonymousreply 582September 15, 2020 11:36 AM

R578, I am really baffled. You say that I am wrong but then note that The Carol Burnett Show, or China Beach or Cold Case have been released without the original music because the rights were not covered.

Those (along with Daria and WKRP) are the best know examples of what I am talking about. In each case some of the original music had to be replaced because the rights negotiated were limited.

I am fascinated by your strategy of arguing that something is wrong then listing the evidence that it is actually right. Does it ever work?

At least I understand more why you lack even a common understanding of IP and labor law.

by Anonymousreply 583September 15, 2020 12:28 PM

R578 is wrong. Here's an article on the WKRP situation.

I seem to recall that there was an episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show where Mary sang an Irving Berlin song, but when that show was released on DVD they had to remove the song.

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by Anonymousreply 584September 15, 2020 2:17 PM

WKRP is somewhat of an anomaly in that it actually replaced some of the songs (and Shout Factory was roundly criticized at the time of release for doing so) instead of holding off until clearance for every track in every episode could be taken care of.

Cold Case is a strange example. While it has been said that the show will never get a DVD release because of the music rights, the entire 7 seasons is available to stream (with ads) on the Roku Channel with all the original music intact.

I'm trying to think of other examples. I know when Sixteen Candles first came out on home video, many of the songs used in the theatrical release had been swapped out because of clearance issues. I was a kid back then and was obsessed with the movie so I'd seen in the theater at least four times and knew every music cue so when we rented the tape, I was super pissed. They've subsequently been able to clear all the original music for later DVD and blu ray releases.

All this to say that there's no hard and fast rule about what's done in terms of music clearance for ancillary rights. I'm a filmmaker, myself and have gone through this process several times. I remember one time I had a classic song in a sequence in one of my films and we had to renegotiate a lower fee with the estate (for reasons that are too tangled, and boring, to elaborate) and the estate came back and said they would agree to it for all ancillary releases but not for theatrical (which was crazy since it was a limited theatrical release). We said okay, played the film theatrically as is, it ran its 10 city playdates and no one was the wiser.

by Anonymousreply 585September 15, 2020 2:31 PM

Melanie Griffith's success can pretty much be chalked up to two things- she looks great onscreen and men want to fuck her. It's the same reason Cameron Diaz won a New Your Film Critics Award for Best Actress for There's Something About Mary. You have a bunch of horny old straight guys that no woman would look at twice, they become enchanted with the vision of this woman onscreen and their desire somehow convinces them there's more to be seen.

by Anonymousreply 586September 15, 2020 2:33 PM

R585, thanks for the information. Sad, but I guess it all comes down to greed: The companies that own the films and TV shows want to pay AS LITTLE MONEY AS POSSIBLE for the rights to re-release those movies and shows on DVD or whatever with the original music, and the owners of the music rights want to receive AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE for them. In the end, I would say it's the composers who suffer, because they don't wind up getting ANY additional money, plus their music is removed from shows and movies it was once an important part of.

[quote]Melanie Griffith's success can pretty much be chalked up to two things- she looks great onscreen and men want to fuck her.

Yes, that must be it, but aren't there lots of actors who look great on screen and are fuckable AND who also have some talent AND are not difficult to work with due to substance abuse issues or whatever? I guess maybe Melanie got her initial shot(s) due to family connections, and then once she began to be established, producers kept going with a quantity that was already known to the public. As for her fuckability, it is quite impressive that she was married (sequentially!) to three of the hottest men in show business -- Don Johnson, Steven Bauer, and Antonio Banderas.

by Anonymousreply 587September 15, 2020 2:58 PM

Melanie's blowjobs are LEGEN-DARY.

by Anonymousreply 588September 15, 2020 3:42 PM

R583, you made the blanket statement: “This is why when old films and television shows are released for DVD or streaming they do not have the original music. Because they only payed for a few broadcasts, not perpetuity.”

Which simply isn’t true. I was pointing out the exceptions, where shows were, in fact, held back by music rights, and the reasons. *Some* old tv shows don’t have their original music because of the music clearance issue. More often, shows with that issue just aren’t released officially. Care to name an “old movie” where the music has been replaced?

by Anonymousreply 589September 15, 2020 5:05 PM

[quote] Melanie's blowjobs are LEGEN-DARY.

Meh. She was an amateur.

by Anonymousreply 590September 15, 2020 5:05 PM

Oh, do let us get back to theatre...

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by Anonymousreply 591September 15, 2020 5:14 PM

I’m always surprised by how utilitarian Broadway dressing rooms are. With a bunch of gays usually onboard, you’d think they’d look better.

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by Anonymousreply 592September 15, 2020 5:27 PM

No Follies r592.

by Anonymousreply 593September 15, 2020 5:35 PM

Not exactly, r593. Somebody had to have Barbra's dressing room at the Winter Garden.

by Anonymousreply 594September 15, 2020 6:21 PM

R589, There were two possible readings of my ambiguous sentence was meant. Rather than reading it as saying that this is why releases without the original music lack the original music, you read it as meaning that ALL film and television shows lack the original music. Either you were so addled that this last possible meaning made sense, or you were angry that you deliberately misread the sentence as a way of lashing out.

This is why all DL posters should keep a copy editor on retainer. Mine was at the dentist when I posted....and I paid dearly for that.

by Anonymousreply 595September 15, 2020 7:29 PM

Yeah, r 595, well...get over it. Moving on...

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by Anonymousreply 596September 15, 2020 7:44 PM

Much appreciated r595. May your good advice be taken.

by Anonymousreply 597September 15, 2020 7:45 PM

Hit it...

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by Anonymousreply 598September 15, 2020 7:50 PM

R595

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by Anonymousreply 599September 15, 2020 8:05 PM

The next thread

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by Anonymousreply 600September 15, 2020 8:28 PM
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