Theatre Gossip #402 - The "Spreading The Love" Edition

The previous thread

Martine and Savion 1...

Martine and Savion 2...

Martine and Savion 2...

Oops...that was my fault.

R5.

If the title and the first five posts are any indication, this thread is already a FLOP.

I am the earth mother, and you are all FLOPS.

I wouldn't have had to, r7...

I think we should have a do-over

Muriel, please nuke this thread.

Why is the "Theatre Thread" the only one in which posters refuse to post because they don't like the thread title? Just fucking talk about Follies.

Because some thread titles are abysmal, r12, and this is one of them. It bears no relation to theatre. Next time, someone please take over from this thread starter. He’s grown stale. Quite stale.

Now come on - OP’s heart was in the right place!

Let’s finally answer something I asked about threads ago: did anyone see Anne Sexton’s play MERCY STREET (1969) at the American Place Theater? It starred Marian Seldes and Mel Dowd.

I’m kind of fascinated by Sexton’s life. The play’s supposedly very autobiographical.

MERCY STREET production

How the play was developed, along with others by two fellow playwrights:

Gawd, so many bitchy Bettys.

[italic]I WANNA TALK ABOUT “MERCY STREET” ! !

I've been reading Andrew Lloyd Webber's autobiography. Here's a few discussion points. (Sorry if these have been discussed before, I'm late to the party).

In the 1970s, a few dance clubs used "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" as their closing song. He doesn't say whether this was the final dance song or music played as the patrons left the club. And he doesn't say if it was just instrumental or if it was Julie Covington's original version.

London Cats 2nd Preview - “Elaine Stritch walked noisily out at the interval proclaiming Cats was a total disaster.” (This after he gave her a paycheck to do a voiceover for the Song & Dance recording).

I bet she knew that Grizabella had been written with Judi Dench in mind and she might have a chance to play it on Broadway, but upon seeing it, she realized how little Grizabella has to do in the show and left. I had always wondered how Judi Dench would play the role because she's not strong on power ballads. ALW says in the book that if she had continued in the show, he would have orchestrated it more like an Edith Piaf song.

Discussing our Miss Betty Buckley. (Keep in mind that Sondheim always hated what she did to his songs).

[quote]She seriously got it into her head that Trevor and the rest of the company were ostracizing her. The reason for Betty’s isolation was rather more mundane. Grizabella doesn’t have much to do apart from deliver her big song. Not so the rest of the cast. One serious problem appeared to be becoming intractable. The “alienated” Betty Buckley for some reason continued to sing “Memory” in every way conceivable other than give the audience the big notes. I finally pulled her aside and said "Just sing the fucking song!”

Betty replaced Bernadette Peters on Broadway in "Song & Dance." A bit of subtle shading from ALW: "I love Betty to bits but I’m not sure that she was born to play a twenty-something English girl from Muswell Hill.”

He states that Bernadette Peters had flu-like symptoms when she recorded "Song & Dance." Isn't that what they all say when the vocals don't sound so great? It's what they said about Tyne Daly's Gypsy and I think they said it about Julie Andrews on one of the "My Fair Lady" recordings.

He says that Milos Forman wanted him to play Mozart in the movie Amadeus. This is hard to believe. A composer with no acting experience is chosen to play a lead in a movie about a classical music composer, a subject which 1980s audiences may have no interest in whatsoever?

He seems to have a love/hate relationship with Tim Rice. Even with all ALW's success, he seems like a battered wife begging her abusive husband to take her back. Tim's just not that into you.

The book ends at the opening of Phantom of the Opera, but he does do a quick final chapter on his work since then. I found it interesting that he mentioned every show *except* Whistle Down The Wind. He quickly mentions: Aspects of Love, The Woman In White, Sunset Boulevard, The Beautiful Game, Love Never Dies, Stephen Ward, producing Bombay Dreams. I saw Whistle Down The Wind and I thought it was better than Love Never Dies and The Beautiful Game. He even had a hit single with Boyzone doing "No Mater What" from the show. What's up with that?

In addition, to his neediness for Tim Rice, he kind of comes off as a jerk in his marriages. He was married to his first wife, who seemed very devoted to him, then he just sort of fell in love with Sarah Brightman (who was also married). So they both divorced and married. Then he says, "There had been publicity about Sarah’s affair with the original Phantom keyboard player and, hugely fond of her as I still am, things weren’t the same for me after that." So they divorced and he remarried for a third time. It's almost like he could cheat on his wife but she wasn't allowed to do it.

All in all, he's had a very charmed life. Many doors easily opened for him and he had many amazing opportunities.

Charles Maryan passed away a couple years ago. He was a great guy.

Interesting. I'm not a huge ALW fan but his place in musical theatre is really singular.

If his other lyricists haven't filled Tim Rice's shoes, that's ALW's own fault. The talent is out there. I think Sir Andrew is unwilling to be challenged by a good writing partner.

I think Don Black and the others are pretty terrible, frankly.

[quote]He states that Bernadette Peters had flu-like symptoms when she recorded "Song & Dance." Isn't that what they all say when the vocals don't sound so great?

I love Bernie--really I do--but they said the same thing about the videotaped version of SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE. I heard over and over that she was unhappy with her own vocal performance "because she was getting over the flu when they recorded it."

Bernie often sounds like "the widdle girl with the code in her nose," anyway. You be the judge.

I thought Bernadette sounded just fine in both things so no reason to apologize.

[quote] He states that Bernadette Peters had flu-like symptoms when she recorded "Song & Dance." Isn't that what they all say when the vocals don't sound so great? It's what they said about Tyne Daly's Gypsy and I think they said it about Julie Andrews on one of the "My Fair Lady" recordings.

It was Julie's second version, the stereo recording from London (you can hear her sniffling during Just You Wait). Also, Mary Martin hated The Sound of Music cast recording because she was so ill and sounded it. There are a few places where she sounds almost like a contralto.

[quote]Also, Mary Martin hated The Sound of Music cast recording

She wasn't the only one! She's a dyke, ya know?

Yeah, I was sick when we recorded the Company record. That's why it looks like I'm drinking so much. I'm using alcohol to knock the germs out of my body.

Cast albums were usually recorded the Sunday after opening. With the stress and pressure and adrenaline of opening, it is no surprise that their immune systems are shot by second night leaving them open to getting sick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, r22, but if memory serves - Bernadette did the SITP video taping at the same time she was doing Song & Dance. I remember hearing at the time that she was sick when she did the S&D recording. She doesn't sound nearly as good on it as she did when I saw it.

This was posted in the Joan of Arc thread:

I remember when Helen Lawson was interviewed during the run of Joan! The Musical and was asked what it was like to play a Saint.

"Dyke, ya know. They should have offered it to Mary."

WE SEE YOU WHITE DYKE MARY!

Which Broadway musical cast has been told they aren't coming back?

Are you asking, r31, or do you know?

[quote]Which Broadway musical cast has been told they aren't coming back?

In My Life

I know.

I was going to joke about Joan! when I vaguely remembered that there had been at least 1 Joan of Arc musical already.

I'd completely forgotten this one existed. Any one see it?

Then tell us, r31

Oh... my.

Who, r31?

Ann Reinking as Joan and Joel Grey as Le Dauphin in Goodtime Charley.

Ann of Arc

Would've been great stunt-casting ... Joan Van Ark IS Joan of Arc!

Falconetti sings! Falconetti dances!

No, r42, unfortunately not. She just...emotes.

R31, it's MRS. DOUBTFIRE, right? (Poor, poor Rob McClure.)

[quote] I'd completely forgotten this one existed. Any one see it?

YEs, and I stupidly paid full price for it. In my 33 years of theatergoing, it ranks in my top five worst shows I've ever suffered through.

They said there will be Broadway performances in this year's scaled-down Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. So the question is, which shows will get to perform?

R29, that was pretty lame.

[quote]it's MRS. DOUBTFIRE, right? (Poor, poor Rob McClure.)

Rob McClure was cute in Miscast, doing Mrs. Lovett.

R31 Is it West Side Story? Or can it be, please?

Isaac Cole Powell did a truly poor performance of On My Own for Miscast. Made even worse by the fact it seemed to have been pre-recorded and he was lip-syncing.

You've grown stale, r47. Quite stale.

R18 Is that the Albino from THE PRINCESS BRIDE?

I agree with both opinions about MISCAST, which was... a mixed bag. (I'm pledging MCC money anyway, because they do good work.)

McClure was good. Powell was not. I liked Rob Fairchild dancing around his roof, which I thought was charming. Some of the other song selections were pretty dubious.

I'm never clear what the "rules" are with these Zoom performances: don't you lose points for not singing live on camera? (It's fine if the music is prerecorded. But still.) If you are merely lip-synching, shouldn't you take the opportunity to, um, do something with the number?

I'm not confident WEST SIDE STORY, with its enormous expenses and very mixed word-of-mouth, will ever re-open/officially open.

R53 Not to mention ongoing expenses - they're going to have to be running the rain effect all through lockdown. I imagine most shows are having to have someone go in and run the set pieces through on a regular basis (I hope so, if not there's going to be a slew of stories once lockdown is over of stage equipment failing), but I doubt many would require as much clean up afterwards as that.

I feel confident it's not COMPANY. (Patti would have spilled the beans by now.)

[quote]I feel confident it's not COMPANY. (Patti would have spilled the beans by now.)

That gives them plenty of time to recast Bobbie.

I was going to post the Roxie monologue compilation someone made to illustrate why Melanie Griffith was a movie star and none of the others were, but the uploader has made the video private. What strikes me most about the Roxies shown (including Ann Reinking, Sandy Duncan, Ruthie Henshall, all the way down to Lisa Rinna) is how they're putting a character onto the monologue. Melanie Griffith just IS. None of her line readings sound rehearsed or calculated. And she gets the biggest laughs. She'd already started into the plastic surgery by the time she played Roxie, so it's not a case of her looks carrying her in the role.

[Quote] I had always wondered how Judi Dench would play the role because she's not strong on power ballads. ALW says in the book that if she had continued in the show, he would have orchestrated it more like an Edith Piaf song.

I'm skeptical that Dench would ever have sung "Memory." And if ALW planned to introduce the number for Grizabella, what was the placeholder before he decided on the number for the character? What material was Dench shown to get her to sign up for the show?

The Wiki page on Memory says this, which is rather, oh shall we say, ironic?

[quote]Andrew Lloyd Webber originally composed the tune for a proposed Giacomo Puccini project that he later abandoned. Although the tune was intentionally written in the style of Puccini, Lloyd Webber was concerned that he had unknowingly lifted it from one of Puccini's works. He asked his father, a noted expert on Puccini, for his opinion on whether it sounded like one of the composer's works; according to Lloyd Webber, his father responded: "It sounds like a million dollars!"[6] Prior to its inclusion in Cats, the composition had also been earmarked for his early draft of Sunset Boulevard.[7]

Yet another tune meant for a different show.

Was ALW's father American?

No. The reference on Wiki is to ALW's book, and he does have the quote as saying dollars. It's probably because, especially back then, that amount of money was looked on as something you could only make in America.

Why didn't he ask his father about those other songs that he lifted from Puccini? Like...say, Music of the Night?

RIP

ALW and CATS??! Bring back FOLLIES!

ALW worried that he had copied Puccini for Memory? I guess he was trying to deflect from the obvious fact that the opening bars of Memory are copied from Ravel's Bolero, just slowed down.

[quote]I'm skeptical that Dench would ever have sung "Memory." And if ALW planned to introduce the number for Grizabella, what was the placeholder before he decided on the number for the character? What material was Dench shown to get her to sign up for the show?

First remember that Cats premiered in London in May 1981. Judi Dench was a working actress, mostly stage and tv, not the star we know her as today.

The lyrics for Memory came from notes that T.S. Eliott had made but never turned into a poem. Additionally, Grizabella, the Glamour Cat was a written poem, but he didn't originally include it in the collection of poems because he thought it was too dark for children.

I can see Judi Dench singing Memory in an Edith Piaf style. It wouldn't have been the big power ballad it has become, I doubt ALW would have written in the big key changes in the song. In today's world, think of someone like Allison Janney doing it. Someone who people knew but was not a huge star, and so would play a featured role with a featured song.

Also, Cats was conceived originally as a dance piece and the London production wasn't as blown up as the Broadway production. In London, it wasn't even performed in a West End theater. The show was still evolving when they went into previews. Elaine Paige was given new lyrics in Memory during previews, so the song was still in flux.

[Quote] First remember that Cats premiered in London in May 1981. Judi Dench was a working actress, mostly stage and tv, not the star we know her as today.

Dench was not a film star but she was way more than simply a working actress. She had already received numerous BAFTA nods. And musical theatre wasn't her main gig.

[quote] In London, it wasn't even performed in a West End theater.

It opened at the New London Theatre, which is a West End theater. It's now the Gillian Lynne. It's recently been home to War Horse, School of Rock and ALW's upcoming Cinderella.

"And musical theatre wasn't her main gig." She had been Sally in London's "Cabaret." There's an anecdote that I read somewhere about Trevor Nunn being blown away the first time he heard Dench singing "Memory" at an audition (and I believe it was on the stage of the "Her Majesty's"). I wish there had been some recording of that audition....sigh.

???? "Memory" wasn't in the show but Dench sang it at an audition? And Judi Dench was not auditioning for ANY theatre gig in 1980.

Dench also starred n The Good Companions. She was a musical theater veteran.

And she never sang Memory. The song was written after she was injured.

Paige recalls hearing Memory on the radio before she got the call. It was an instrumental.

ALW does seem to exclude Whistle Down The Wind for some reason, but he does mention the recording of “Cold” by the Everly Brothers for the concept album and how it was a highlight of his career (he says something like he could have retired happily after that). He also mentions begging Jim Steinman to do Phantom with him and Steinman turning him down. Since Steinman came in to advise on School of Rock, obviously they get along well. There was also a 54 Below “NYC premiere” concert of Whistle a few years ago that he allowed. The show was originally written as a movie musical for Steven Spielberg, right? But Spielberg put it on the back burner when Kubrick finally gave up on his Holocaust movie and told Spielberg to do Schindler’s List (which, obviously, he did). ALW was famously livid with Hal Prince’s handling of Whistle so maybe he is still sore about it or wanted to wait until Hal died before telling the whole story.

R72, the instrumental version is called Bolero.

No disrespect to Dame Judi. And I understand some people's preferences for "actors who can sing" vs singers in stage musicals...

But can you imagine sitting around and listening to a Judi Dench album? A concert evening of Judi singing, even a younger version of her?

I equate her as a singer with Tyne Daly, maybe Linda Lavin. Pass.

Doing some research, Dench was going to double Grizabella and Jennydots. Also, since the play was conceived as a ensemble piece, there was no expectation that she would carry the musical climax of the show.

ALW had already written the vocal notes of Memory. The tune was there. Trevor Nunn was the one who was supposed to take the fragments of the Eliott poem and write the lyrics. Nunn was the head of the RSC at the time and he was having to juggle priorities so he was very late in completing the song.

Did Judi want out to do her sitcom, which premiered in November 1981? The injury (or "injury") allowed her a graceful exit.

r78 - No.

[quote]It opened at the New London Theatre, which is a West End theater.

Sorry about that, you are correct. I was thinking because it was outside the Shaftesbury Ave/Covent Garden corridor that it wasn't considered a West End theater. Is that area considered Holborn?

It was not certain that Trevor Nunn was going to write the lyrics. Don Black also wrote a set and Paige sang both before the decision to go with Nunn's was finally made.

That first production sounds like a shit-show.

How did Judi's shitty Britcom run so much longer than my shitty Britcom?

I mean, seriously--try sitting through that thing. Jesus.

Judi Dench gave one of my all-time favorite musical theatre performances in ALNM at the National. But then Desiree's singing voice doesn’t generally make or break the show.

I remember hearing that when she did Cabaret, there was an actual sign in the lobby that said something like, "Ms. Dench does not have a cold tonight. This is how her voice sounds."

I had multiple shitty britcoms, Lainey!

[quote]Did Judi want out to do her sitcom, which premiered in November 1981? The injury (or "injury") allowed her a graceful exit.

No. Cats premiered in May. I assume she would only sign a six month contract, so there would have only been a few weeks overlap where she rehearsed the sitcom during the day and performed Cats at night. And Grizabella is not a taxing role (Dench would be singing Piaf, think a French ballad accompanied by an accordion). I think they would have come to their senses, as they did, and have another actress perform Jenny Anydots, because that is a big dance sequence. ALW says in the book that they should have had a tap expert come from NYC to choreograph that number, because the Brits aren't noted for being dancers.

[quote]Judi Dench gave one of my all-time favorite musical theatre performances in ALNM at the National.

I didn't like her angry take on the song. "Don't bother, they're here" came off as "Oh, go fuck yourself" and I like to think that Desiree is more sad/melancholy over how things turned out rather than outright angry.

I prefer Follies. As a musical and as a topic of conversation.

And yours is the better choice, R86.

Not to Sondheim. He likes the simmering anger.

I thought the anger was a fine and revelatory choice.

R86, go find Bernadette doing it in the show on YouTube. THAT'S how that song should be done.

Glynis Johns' version has quite a bit of anger as well. Sondheim does not like renditions to play for tears. He'd probably hate Ruthie Henshall's TV performance.

[quote]And yours is the better choice, [R86].

Yes. Yes, it is.

The show is written in 3/4 time. You can't be angry in 3/4 time.

So...how did the camera feel about Barbara?

Watch her Hitchock Presents and you have your answer.

[quote] The show is written in 3/4 time.

Much or most of the score is in some form of triple meter but it's a gross over exaggeration to say the whole thing is in 3/4 time.

[quote]You can't be angry in 3/4 time.

"Let me get my hat and my knife!"

"Mean Girls" is not coming back.

Kudos to the costume and dog designer on that National Theatre ALNM. They made Dame Judi look at least 6 foot tall on that stage. When we met her afterwards, I couldn't believe this tiny older woman had just given that magnificent performance.

Sorry, WIG, not DOG.

I also saw the NT ALNM and Dench was pretty wonderful during the "You must meet my wife." They should re-release the album.

The end of SEND IN THE CLOWNS should be angry and bitter!!!!!

[quote]So...how did the camera feel about Barbara?

That style and shade of hair did her no favors.

Many shows won’t be coming back. It’s not just one.

Trevor Nunn made casting Dench as Grizabella a condition of him agreeing to direct, so I doubt she ever auditioned for the role.

[quote]I doubt ALW would have written in the big key changes in the song (MEMORY).

What key changes? There are few, difficult jumps in notes (TOUCH ME), but I don't think there's a key change. It was later (especially Sunset Boooolevard) that ALW added key changes during a number, so that the star/singer could hit the money notes.

Peter Pan.

What a piece of shit.

Monster In A Box.

Repeat Attenders.

Is there a bootleg of Jerome Robbins Broadway on YT? I think it was filmed for Japan TV.

R81 I’ve always read that it was Tim Rice (then Elaine’s boyfriend) who wrote the alternate lyrics to Memory, not Don Black. Trevor Nunn opted to go with his own lyrics instead of Rice’s. Which pissed off Rice big time.

R82, Elaine yours had 29 episodes and Judi's only had 26.

[quote]Tim Rice (then Elaine’s boyfriend)

Tim wasn't Elaine's boyfriend. Tim was married. Elaine was his bit on the side.

Fun fact: Tim and his first wife, Jane Artereta, never finalized their divorce so she still holds the title Lady Rice.

Rice’s “Memory” lyrics are kind of lame and don’t evoke Eliot. He should stay in his wheelhouse (where he can be rather good). That said, I’d love to hear Elaine sing the alternate lyrics again just to hear how she interprets them (they were done live for a few performances).

ALW is a Lord, not Tim Rice. Rice is Sir, so wouldn’t his wife then be Dame? Where’s Lady Colin Campbell when you need her!

[quote]so she still holds the title Lady Rice.

Would that go well as a side with Lady Ham?

[quote]Rice is Sir, so wouldn’t his wife then be Dame?

I think Dame is only used when the woman has been knighted.

[quote] You can't be angry in 3/4 time.

Just wait a goddamn minute!

"No, I'd strike her first!"

R111 Both Black and Rice wrote a version. And then Nunn chose his own and watched the royalties pour in.

R115 The wife of a knight (Sir) can use the title Lady with her surname - so Sir Tim and his wife Lady Rice. Of course this is then confusing, as female members of the House of Lords are also known as Lady followed by their surname. But there's little the English aristocracy like better than those little drops of confusion over arcane things like titles that they can use as a kind of shibboleth to judge who's really part of the right set.

To preempt the question: the husband of a dame (the female equivalent to a knighthood) gets no title.

I just want to be clear, I only know this because I had to know it for a job. Don't want people thinking I'd voluntarily learn this stuff - I'm an anti-monarchist (best not to describe myself as a republican on a predominantly American website).

I was thinking about "As Time Goes By," R112. Which apparently didn't even start until 1992....

But felt like it had been on the air since the days of Sigmund Romberg. God, what a slog that maudlin thing was.

Whereas "Two's Company" was zippy! It still holds up.

Somebody mention Two's Company?

There's a good bootleg of The Muny production of JRB, and its very good.

A Fine Romance is awful. Judi looks like a washed out Bonnie Franklin and her husband tries to sell his crinkly charm before its expiration date.

Witless. Ugly. Bad British acting.

[quote]Bad British acting.

But The Great British Baking Show returns this month.

Why would someone want to see the Muny's JRB? They are not using the original designs and from the looks of it, does not use all of the original choreography.

What is the point?

^^The original used the original designs from each show represented and the original choreography (or something new by Robbins if the original was not documented).

The Muny production used the Robbins choreography, and the estate was involved. I had a friend in the cast. I think it was then replicated in Houston.

[quote]In any event, I’m with [R297]; sane drivers do not regularly run through lights and they certainly don’t drive against traffic. And yet bicyclists do this Constantly. It’s incredibly dangerous. I have a close call with one probably close to every day. Since I obey walk and don’t walk signs, cars are way, wayyyy less of a problem.

But it's definitely true in the case of Andrews and the London recording of MFL. That's the only recording from that period in which her voice does not sound great, and she made many recordings on which she sounds much better as late as 10 years later or more.

So Julie Andrews doesn’t obey traffic signals? That bitch.

Arrgh, sorry R130, the post I meant to respond to was the following:

[quote]He states that Bernadette Peters had flu-like symptoms when she recorded "Song & Dance." Isn't that what they all say when the vocals don't sound so great? It's what they said about Tyne Daly's Gypsy and I think they said it about Julie Andrews on one of the "My Fair Lady" recordings.

Julie really was not well at the time of the MFL London recording. It's obvious just from listening. Ironically, she keeps insisting that that recording is superior to the original Broadway cast, which is the opposite of the truth. I can only guess she says that because maybe she has a percentage of the sales of the London recording but not the Broadway?

Poor Dame Judi Dench. She fakes an injury to get out of that dreadful Cats show, and just as everyone has forgotten about it, they force her into doing the movie version 40 years later. She needs a crash course in assertiveness.

R67 Dench was mainly known in the UK at this point. She didn't break out in the US until MRS. BROWN in the late '90s. Also, BAFTAs were pretty meaningless outside the UK until the early 2000s. That is when they decided to become an Oscar precursor. Prior to that, they were held after the Oscars, usually in April or May. By then, most everyone had moved on from Oscar season. Not to mention, the BAFTA were (and still are) not aired live, for some reason.

FUCK JUDI DENCH AND HER BREEZY CUNT!

WE SEE YOU WHITE JUDY DENCH!

WE SEE YOU WHITE LILLIAS!

[quote]Not to mention, the BAFTA were (and still are) not aired live, for some reason.

I like to think it's in case Kathy Burke ever wins one (and yes I am using any chance to post this)

[quote] FUCK JUDI DENCH AND HER BREEZY CUNT!

But she’s a national treasure.

R131, see r24.

Everything about the OBCR of MFL is superior to the OLCR of the show, including the sound. The original mono is rich and full and actually much more satisfying than the lackluster stereo of the OLC. The only exception might be Harrison's performance, which is slightly more nuanced in London.

[quote] I like to think it's in case Kathy Burke ever wins one (and yes I am using any chance to post this)

Kathy Burke is a really great actress. It's too bad she burned out for awhile and took a break.

[Quote] Dench was mainly known in the UK at this point. She didn't break out in the US until MRS. BROWN in the late '90s. Also, BAFTAs were pretty meaningless outside the UK until the early 2000s.

And what has this got to do with a UK theatre star getting cast in a UK stage production?

[quote] And what has this got to do with a UK theatre star getting cast in a UK stage production?

Because it meant that Judi wouldn't be doing the Broadway production and Elaine Stritch still had a chance.

Elaine as an old pussy...

The Eliot poem most like "Memory" is "Rhapsody on a Windy Night". They share a number of phrases.

R60, "looks like a million dollars" is a common expression in the English-speaking world. Maybe it was popularised in an old American movie, but you hear it even where the currency is pounds.

[Quote] "looks like a million dollars" is a common expression in the English-speaking world.

A common expression among the generation from which ALW's father sprung? I'm skeptical.

Rick McKay's Tribute to MARIAN SELDES from Broadway: The Golden Age Film Trilogy

I have no idea what a million bucks looks like...

This.

Yes, R146. The generation born in Australia in the 30s and 40s would say it, so I imagine it's the same in Britain. You have to remember how imbued that generation was with American movies and plays.

Andrew's father really should have said, "A million quid".

Americans use expressions like "penny wise and pound foolish" so why wouldn't those in other countries use "looks like a million bucks"?

ALW was born in the 40s. His father was born in 1914.

[Quote] so why wouldn't those in other countries use "looks like a million bucks"?

Brits are a breed apart.

Dorothy Loudon in BALLROOM (1978, Broadway)

It could have been me!

Oh, Dot, you didn't need yet *another* flop on your resume.

Roz looks like she was having a ball...

It's a shame they didn't make a "Wonderful Town" movie with Betty Bacall.

Janis Paige, the original star of "The Pajama Game," turned 98 yesterday.

She did it in '77....

[Quote] Janis Paige, the original star of "The Pajama Game," turned 98 yesterday.

Another role I turned down!

Why do they have that photo of Roz all glammed up with a cigarette holder in front of the theater at r157? She certainly never looked like that in "Wonderful Town."

[quote] The only exception might be Harrison's performance, which is slightly more nuanced in London

I had a friend (unfortunately, now deceased) who hated the London recording because he felt Rex Harrison was trying to 'croon'.

On one of these threads I learned (after 40 years) why Lerner changed the lyrics to 'Show Me' from "Don't talk of June, don't talk of fall, don't talk at all, show me!" to "Please don't implore, beg or beseech, Don't make a speech, show me!" (because the Brits call it 'autumn', not 'fall') and the lyrics in 'Get Me to the Church on Time" from 'Stamp me and mail me' to 'Bond me and bail me' (because they don't 'mail' things, they 'post' them).

The accents of the ensemble are better on the London recording, naturally.

Fleabag.

The entire London recording is better. I can't stand the OBC.

Andrews' voice really matured in the three years between recordings. The London recording is the rich warm voice we all love, much more full throated. The Broadway recording is small and pinched and far too cute to be effective.

Y'all can have your OBC of Fair Lady. I wouldn't have it in my house.

Cyrano - Act One.

Thanks, as always, for the links.

I loved FLEABAG live. I was a fan of the series (S1, in particular) but the original play was even more wrenching to watch, even if it starts a bit slowly.

Does anyone know if she's doing a Season 3 at any point? I liked Season 2, but I could have lived without it, too.

Cyrano - Act Two.

Thank you R169.... you are the very best!

I don’t know who that is in the picture of the album at r159, but it’s not Janis Paige.

Did Julie Wilson join the production early in the run?

It seems to be an Australian pressing of the Broadway Cast recording. Could it be Toni Lamond of the Australian production?

IBDB doesn't say when she went in, r172.

But it does note that Janis Paige played Babe from May 13, 1954, to Jun 23, 1955.

And lists no one else but Julie Wilson as a replacement Babe.

R175 she left Pajama Game for It's Always Jan, the television series produced by her husband. Sigh...we don't have tv shows with titles like that anymore. I bet that opening credit sequence has lyrics somewhere because you can hear how "It's Al-ways Jannnnnn" would fit over it at the beginning and end.

R161 Dolores did eventually do "The Pajama Game," at St. Louis Muny, opposite Stephen Douglass.

R162 [Why do they have that photo of Roz all glammed up with a cigarette holder in front of the theater at [R157]? She certainly never looked like that in "Wonderful Town."] That's a photo of Roz enacting one of the three "vignettes," meant to be scenes from the somewhat derivative stories just handed in by Ruth Sherwood.

R175 Janis Paige's "Pajama Game" replacements were Fran Warren, Julie Wilson and Pat Marshall.

Good ol' Fran Warren!

I'm running out the door to buy some Drene shampoo with Hairspring formula, r176...

R168: Waller-Bridge has said she is done with Fleabag -- for now. In one interview I read (sorry, I have no idea where), she said that she *might* revisit the character when she (Fleabag) is older, perhaps menopausal, that that could be an interesting and new look at the character.

I also wish Waller-Bridge would write another season of Crashing, although, truth be told, I don't see how it would work. I love those characters, though.

IBDB will correct their records if any of you supply them with proof of the missing replacement Babes.

A Playbill will do it.

Phoebe Waller-Bridge is as overrated as BIPOC theater.

Count me as another who prefers the OBCR of My Fair Lady to London.

Was anyone from Follies in the Pajama Game?

Tallu

Yes, r184....

That Cyrano is a must-to-avoid. It has about as much panache as my _____(fill in the blank)

David Merrick's 1973 musical version of Cyrano had a very short run but it really had its charms, mainly due to Christopher Plummer's performance in the title role. He won the Tony. The book and lyrics were by Anthony Burgess, of all people (A Clockwork Orange). The vinyl OBCR went out of print quickly because of the show's failure and became a collector's item.

I don't believe that David Merrick had anything to do with that '73 Broadway "Cyrano" musical.

Merrick's not that crazy.

[quote]The entire London recording is better. I can't stand the OBC. Andrews' voice really matured in the three years between recordings. The London recording is the rich warm voice we all love, much more full throated. The Broadway recording is small and pinched and far too cute to be effective. Y'all can have your OBC of Fair Lady. I wouldn't have it in my house.

I'm being 100 percent serious, not nasty, when I say that maybe you should your hearing checked. Andrews sounds awful on most of the London recording -- ill and tired, plus she had already started to fall more deeply into that very bad habit of talking or declaiming rather than singing a lot of her lyrics. Listen to her performances of "Show Me" on both albums, for example. Far superior on the OBCR.

I just do not agree, R191. And "Show Me" is exactly the performance I would choose to support my point.

On the OBC, she sounds as if she is a soubrette who just escaped a production of "The Boy Friend." On the London recording, she sounds like a woman with strong, clearly reasoned opinions and a good deal of spine. Her more seasoned knowledge of the character and how to play it shines through.

I also think the stereo recording enriches the entire LP.

R166 is probably a Brit who can't bring themselves to compliment Americans about anything nor admit that sometimes the American version of something is better.

Sorry. R166 was born and raised in the midwest. He bought his London cast recording at Rose's Discount Records in Chicago.

As an old geezer, all this bickering over MFL has brought back memories of the times I'd argue with a complete stranger in Tower Records over which version of a particular show was better than another, a concept of which people under 40 have no idea.

I miss the old days

I remember those "discussions" very well, R195. You brought back a lot of memories with that post. I learned so much from having those physical recordings in front of me. Streaming can never replace it.

btw... The Lincoln Center 1965 "CAROUSEL" recording is the best!

I purchased my Flahooley (the Capitol re-issue) at Peaches.

I got my By the Beautiful Sea at the same time.

R194. Rose’s! Oh what memories—taking the Lake Street El from Oak Park downtown and discovering a world of obscure show albums. Also, first store this goyische boy encountered that closed “for the holidays” (Rosh Hashanah And Yom Kippur).

In case people missed it, this NYT critics' piece is worth a look.

And even more entertaining, the NYT readers' responses, including a well-deserved pile on to one critics' whining

[quote]In two decades of professional theater going, here are some things I have been shushed for: coughing, unwrapping a cough drop, reading a Playbill, writing a note and checking texts when I had left a baby at home with a fever.

OMG. If your baby is home with a fever while you're at the theatre 1) it's not my responsibility and 2) you are truly a shitty mother who needs to rethink here priorities. No, you should not be texting while the show is on.

My god, yes, Rose's Records. As a Northwestern student, I lived for those sale events for new releases! Thanks for reviving those memories.

Is it true Ben Bagley didn't pay some of the old dames who sang on his albums?

I'm sure Kate got paid...

[quote]I just do not agree, [R191]. And "Show Me" is exactly the performance I would choose to support my point. On the OBC, she sounds as if she is a soubrette who just escaped a production of "The Boy Friend." On the London recording, she sounds like a woman with strong, clearly reasoned opinions and a good deal of spine. Her more seasoned knowledge of the character and how to play it shines through. I also think the stereo recording enriches the entire LP.

Well....seriously, maybe your ears and mine are constructed differently, because my opinions on all of the above are the exact opposite of yours. The sound quality of the stereo MFL is famously inferior to the mono original, and I can't believe you actually think that performance of "Show Me" on the London recording -- with Andrews talking or shouting half of the song, rather than singing it -- is any good, let alone better than the original. To each their own!

That is what it comes down to, r204. You two should prefer the sound of your favored recordings. It's like....some people prefer their Send in the Clowns to be melancholy and some prefer it...FUCKING ANGRY.

Some prefer a shooky-shooky beat...

But does anyone prefer Kay Medfory GYPSY?

*Medford

[quote]r205 It's like....some people prefer their Send in the Clowns to be melancholy and some prefer it...FUCKING ANGRY.

We should discuss that some time!

[quote]But does anyone prefer Kay Medfory GYPSY?

I don't. It's way too Medfory for my tastes.

Sheesh, r210....some people.

Kay couldn’t sing for shit and her phrasing was oh so predictable.

Your BUTT is predictable!

^^ sorry R212 - I don’t know why it makes me crack up so much to always parrot that : )

It’s the 2nd Grader in me

(non-sexually)

Dunno about your inner second grader r214, but personally I have always found butts to be singularly UNpredictable.

Which is one of their charms.

I always felt the best way to interpret SEND IN THE CLOWNS is to be self-deprecating while hiding the anger at him in the first part, and then anger at herself in the second part for embarrasing herself until the end where she becomes resigned to it but with a little bit of hope.

The song only works with a performer who can really plumb the depths of the song...

I think a good, sensitive performance of "Send in the Clowns" should combine feelings of sadness/regret/melancholy as well as some bitterness and anger, but to play the whole song for angry bitterness would be a big mistake.

Taps. It needs...taps.

Guess what, YouTube allows us all to easily compare Julie Andrews' recording of "Show Me" on the original Broadway cast and the London cast albums of MY FAIR LADY. Here is the far superior performance from the Broadway recording -- her voice is pure and clear, the belt sections are powerful, and she actually sings the notes while fully acting the song to the hilt.

[quote] Janis Paige's "Pajama Game" replacements were Fran Warren, Julie Wilson and Pat Marshall.

All of whom sang on pitch.

And here is the far inferior (IMHO) performance from the London album. Julie sounds under the weather (which she apparently was during the sessions), which may partly explain why she talks or shouts most of song rather than singing it, and when she does actually sing the notes that are written, her pitch is droopy.

The London version at R222 is shrill, cynical, charmless. Pass.

And the Freddy sucks.

You appear to be right, r173. This is Toni in the show.

Where else can you find a continuing comparison of two performances by the same singer of a lesser song from a great musical . . . except on DL?

Toni's Clowns.

Well played, R226! You are the real Data Lounge deal.

It looks like Toni had a Toni, r224! I'm watching Miss Nesbitt on Naked City....

SEASON 3 • EPISODE 2 • DEAD ON THE FIELD OF HONOR • DRAMA / CRIME DRAMA

Beau Choiseul (Logan Ramsey) is a strict believer in chivalry. One day he sees a man arguing discourteously with his girl friend---so he shoots him. Grandmaman: Cathleen Nesbitt. Vivianne: Ann Williams. Parker: Horace McMahon. Arcaro: Harry Bellaver. Flint: Paul...

TONI! TONI! TONI!

The song requires some balls. Eliza is pissed at how she has been treated and she lets it fly. None of that is captured in the OBC.

But not on the OBC.

It's not an easy role to sing 8 times a week. I suspect Miss Andrews had some expert vocal instruction during the run of My Fair Lady so that she could get through it. She went into it a natural talent and an experienced singer, but not a trained singer. If her voice has changed after a year and a half on Broadway and if she has learned how to sing the song and survive, that's all good. She would not survive 8 a week singing as she did on the OBC.

It really did surprise me how much worse she was on the London album. She is still good, but the acting and singing are so much better on the OBC. As someone said, she needs balls and she needs to let it fly, so either in the course of the run she lost that or she could not do it because she was ill.

Really interesting to compare.

There's pitchy moments on the OLC but she's more upfront in the mix and with less reverb on her vocal she has more presence in the soundscape.

R201 I’m the native Oak Parker who posted about Rose’s, but I also went to Northwestern and would take friends on the El to Rose’s and lunch at the English Room at Fields with their exquisite cheese soup. Oh les beaux jours..,.

Frango Mints!

What exactly was the thinking behind doing a recording of the London cast at all? Freddy was the only lead not on the OBCR. Not counting Mrs. Pearce.

R232, that is the hard thing. The OLC is better produced, but her performance is not as good.

So it all rests on what you value.

Well, if Kritzerland were to re-release the OBC and OLC together, they could fix some bum notes as they did with Jerry Orbach on the OBC of "Promises, Promises."

So that it would be in stereo, r235?

While I was doing a show in Chicago, Barbara Cook made an appearance at Rose Records and I approached and fawned all over her (this would be around 1983). I also gave her a tape cassette of my songs...which she never sang or recorded. I cry myself to sleep every night thinking about that.

Did you right about getting high with some guy in the sky?

*write

Hangman - Act One.

Hangman - Act Two.

Everybody's Talking Bout Jamie.

Oh, dear.

Whoever did that album cover at R226 has a misguided sense of New York geography.

No BONNIE FRANKLIN in that lineup, R245 ? ? ?

She could have slapped the hell out of little Patrick if given a scene from "Mame".

Dammit, Patrick!

Thank you, r245. Lorna's Time Heals Everything was wonderful, as was Leslie's and Flo's Kiss Her Now.

I agree. Julie sounds like shit on that London album.

[quote]What exactly was the thinking behind doing a recording of the London cast at all? Freddy was the only lead not on the OBCR. Not counting Mrs. Pearce.

The main reason, and the obvious one (so obvious I'm surprised you missed it), for re-recording MY FAIR LADY with the London cast was that the OBC recording JUST missed being recorded in stereo. Which makes it all the more ironic that the sound quality on the London recording is actually far worse than the Broadway.

[quote] The OLC is better produced, but her performance is not as good.

The OLC is definitely NOT better produced, in my opinion. There's a lot of distortion in the sound, the stereo is not very well done, some of the conducting is just awful, and there are other flaws to it as well. The only major improvement, as someone else noted, is that the ensemble members and the singers of the smaller roles all sound believably British, which of course they were, whereas on the OBC they sound flat-out American.

Replying to a comment way back, you're right, Merrick didn't produce the Christopher Plummer Cyrano. In my dotage I was conflating that production with Merrick's attempts in the late 1960s to mount a musical version with Anthony Newly, which never happened.

Oddly, I am currently sitting here watching an over the air broadcast of the Cyrano film with José Ferrer. And spell check wanted to replace Ferrer with ferret.

^ Newley, not Newly. Sorry.

Yes the MFL OLC was all about getting the performances in stereo. That was a VERY big deal in those early days of stereo. The London recording was the first one we bought after getting a big console stereo player. We wouldn't have even considered the mono version, especially given the London set's golden cover and gatefold package. Well worth the extra $1 we had to pay.

When did three track recording start?

What R254 said. Stereo was a huge improvement and was enormously popular.

Beware the queens who tell you monaural is just as good, or even better. They are insane. It is not.

For a period, monaural recordings were rejigged to create a simulated stereo and that did not always work out. The original monaural versions of those recordings often provided a better listening experience.

Of course, stereo was a huge improvement but the stereo albums were sometimes not well-recorded. Engineers had a long time to perfect the microphone placement and other elements that contributed to excellent monaural recordings. There was a lot of experimentation in those early stereo recordings -- some things worked and others didn't.

I love YT’s Valens with the heat of a thousand suns.

You're right, r257, but in those days we took what we could get. And we liked it!!

Shirley MacLaine - Indiana Dinner (1955)

Shirley MacLaine - The Art Of Conversation (1955)

I forgot that there was a time when Lorna could really sing. Acting, however...

Phedre with Mirren.

CarmAn

Hansard.

[quote]And spell check wanted to replace Ferrer with ferret.

Would've been OK with me.

Hansard was such a piece of crap. And hearing David Hare during the interval when it was broadcast, you realized that he considers himself brilliant.

The National could happily perform far less Bennett and Hare....but they are obsessed with them.

It is really bizaree. Bennett and Hare had a couple interesting plays a few decades ago. But most of their output is tedious and mediocre. But by hiring directors and actors more gifted than these writers they manage to somehow makes their plays merely seem dull rather than incompetently written.

Writing one (or maybe two) good plays does not give most writers a lifetime pass. Why these two?

Do they have a piss tape of the Queen or something?

Stereo didn't become a vast improvement until multi track recording moved way past 3 and 4 track.

For absolutely no reason...

My beloved Valens, do you have the 25th anniversary Miss Saigon?

The one wing the glasses, Maggie Stredder, died in the past year or so.

Car Man live was the sexiest show I've ever seen on stage. I was hard the entire night.

Why did a mention of Hansard start a conversation about David Hare? Though speaking of him, I'm Not Running was absolutely dire.

Ethel...

Who was the dame with the eye patch, r273?

BLOW!

For no reason at all, may I present another Ethel:

R275, because those British names all sound alike to me and I got confused.

I, for one, still enjoy Alan Bennett's work (or what good directors and casts can do with them) but will also agree that his best days are past.

[quote]Writing one (or maybe two) good plays does not give most writers a lifetime pass. Why these two?

Hey! I resemble that remark.

The shocking thing was that the songs in Hallelujah were suggested by the director during development. Even with them, it was a real slog, but the idea of that play without them .....

And seeing Madness of George III on NTLive without the direction and performances that made the original production so great revealed how undergraduate the writing is.

Rewatching R279, am I nuts, or is Vivian Vance just barely staying in character during parts of "Shortnin' Bread"? Who can blame her?

R256, I completely agree that stereo sound is generally a great improvement over mono -- BUT a poorly engineered stereo recording like the London cast album of MY FAIR LADY can be inferior in sound quality to a beautifully engineered mono recording such as the original Broadway cast album of MY FAIR LADY. Plus the fact that, in this case, the performances are different, and the London album is inferior in that respect as well.

[quote]Stereo didn't become a vast improvement until multi track recording moved way past 3 and 4 track.

I disagree, I think some of the earliest stereo recordings sound great, including some of the earliest stereo cast albums, like CANDIDE, BELLS ARE RINGING, and the Julie Andrews CINDERELLA. But not the London MY FAIR LADY.....

I remember hating the gimmicky quadraphonic mix of the Company cast album, specifically "Getting Married Today" with Beth Howland magically transporting from quadrant to quadrant, line to line.

Ah, but the Quadrophonic COMPANY "Ladies Who Lunch" is very interesting. We all know how Elaine's performance was recorded. Elaine is pretty much solo on the 4th channel of the Quadrophonic recording. You can tune her out and just enjoy the orchestration. Or, possibly, have yourself the best ever karaoke "Ladies Who Lunch."

"But to all of you, it has taken me 42 years to climb those eight steps."

Toni Lamond's half-sister...

Toni Now.

Miss Saigon - 25th.

[quote]r275 Ethel...

Get that braying cow OUT of here!

Thanks for posting the Miss Saigon 25th, but when I clicked I got the message "We're sorry. You can't access this item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service." Kim never had it so rough.

I get the same message R294

Have we heard anything new about the musical that won't be reopening?

You mean all of them, R296?

I'm tellin' ya...what Broadway needs to make a comeback is a revival of The Moon is Blue!

Barbra...

That's hilarious. Good for Barbra.

Not always, but sometimes you just gotta love Streisand.

The fuck I do.

What is Ms. Fonda’s beef with Babs?

There isn't one, r303. But some people are just gonna...

Things I Know To Be True.

The Best Worst Thing that Ever Could Have Happened.

It's True! It's True! It's True!

Sorry, no idea why Saigon won't play, seems fine from my end. Is it downloadable?

OMG, r306, Joanna Merlin is SO young! Maybe it's because she isn't wearing a judge's robe.

Judges' robes are so aging.

R308 All I get is the Google Drive logo along with "We're sorry. You can't access this item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service. Find out more about this topic at the Google Drive Help Center." None of the normal Drive options. I've tried in both Safari and Firefox.

PS I finally watched Hangmen this morning and enjoyed it very much!

R311 Bummer. Sorry.

R312 You've given us all so much throughout this quarantine that I remain forever grateful. xx

R313 You are very sweet.

Faith Healer with Michael Sheen, Indira Varma and David Threlfall. Socially distanced theater

Is "Faith Healer" an Irish play?

R312 is Person of the Year here on DL.

Fuck the Froy/Madden troll.

Yes, Faith Healer is by Brian Friel who wrote Dancing at Lughnasa. It's a brilliant play made up of monologues

I have seen one very good production of Faith Healer. And I have seen one very bad production. Both were moving because the script is so good.

R296 That poster said it was Mean Girls

I saw the original Broadway production of “Faith Healer, “ with James Mason, his wife, and Donal Donnelly. Fascinating piece. Chilling finale.

For a long time, Mason’s was the only autograph I ever sought, and got. That play took courage. I don’t think he did a lot of stage work.

I'm reading that there are theaters and people pushing to make 12 hour tech days only 8 hours and rehearsals will be 5 days a week instead of 6. It's part of the "we see you white theater" thing. Is tech racist?

I do not know about the tech stuff, but a lot of the practices that have been protested as classist (such as unpaid internships) are now being classfied as racist.

If it helps wrest theater jobs out of the hands of the wealthy, I am all for it.

Yes, its such a hardship to work the occasional 12 hour day with plenty of -- PLENTY OF -- breaks during the very brief period a show is teaching.. Every doctor, nurse, police and fireman regularly works 12 hour shifts and doesn't bitch. There is nothing classicist or racist about it. Grow up.

R323 Well, according to the Smithsonian Institute, "hard work is the key to success" is a white culture thing.

*Institution, sorry. Specifically, the National Museum of African American History and Culture

r324 you could say the same for Japanese culture, etc etc.. This is so bizarre.

Being on time is a white culture thing/bad?

LOL! Blacks are just swindling white people's guilt.

Unpaid work is exploitation. It should be banned.

I think the question of why one should have 12 tech days is reasonable. You could change it to one and a half 8 hour days.

Tech rehearsals are a dreary--but absolutely essential--component of putting a show together, when all the plastic elements of a production come together under the director's supervision. If anyone thinks that can be accomplished in anything under 12 hour days, they know nothing about theater and/or are lazy sods who have no business working in it.

Oh, please, R331. They can do the same work in 8 hour days, they will just need more of them. They would probably be more productive, not less, if they were not exhausted when doing the work. This goes double for safety in a tech-heavy production.

If anyone thinks that can be accomplished in anything under 12 hour days... that person knows little of the Metropolitan Opera's rigorous tech and rehearsal schedule.

The Met? Try doing tech for Follies!

FOLLIES!!!

Actors complaining about 10 out of 12 is ridiculous. They mostly stand/move minimally while set pieces and lighting are finalized by designers and crew who work their asses off. And then end up in a two hour production meeting before an 8:00 am call the next morning.

Black people are lazy. What do you expect?

R335 is typical. He immediately makes it all about the actors and their complaints.

It does not seem to register that the designers and crew might not be thrilled with cramming so much work into one day. Most of them know they do not make their best decisions in the last few hours and that anything they do then will have to be reviewed again later.

Plus, god forbid that anyone have children, medical issues etc.

In spite of what R335 says, more design and tech staff complain about the 12 hour days than any one else. (And their days are really longer than 12 hours when you get down to it!)

Actors complain?

I think it's less about how draining the day is and more about how those work-hours are less tenable to people who live under less privileged conditions, vis a vis childcare, transportation, etc. If those conditions are disproportionately experienced by BIPOC, then the practice is more challenging or burdensome to them. I'm not sure I buy it but that's my understanding. On the other hand, so many jobs have. periods or moments of tremendous overtime and midnight-oil-burning, so who knows.

Regardless of who is most severely affected, and in what ways, do we honestly have any idea why they have those 10-out-of-12-days rather than stretching the tech out over two days or more? The only reason I can think of is that the shows want to move into the theaters and begin rehearsing there as late as possible to save money on rent, but for heaven's sake, couldn't everyone work out a deal so it would be affordable for them to move into the theaters one or two days earlier to allow for less onerous tech days?

My understanding (and someone please correct me if I’m wrong) is that it’s not about theatre rental; the production has already been in the theatre for weeks prior to tech rehearsals. It’s about the actors. Six 12 hour days is cheaper than nine 8 hour days because the Union makes allowances for 10 out of 12s. This might also be the case with IATSE. I don’t know.

I really miss the "Follies" discussions.

I don't even want to think about how long the tech for Follies took.

r339 that's the first argument I've heard about this topic that makes any sense. Thanks .

So apparently none of you work in the theatre. The reason for 10/12s has always been for the good of the whole. As someone above wrote, its incredibly intense time of coordination, communication , and stage management, sound, lights, sets, costumes all trying to learn/create their show. To do that, they need long, concentrated hours, and you need to be together for long stretches because so many questions, etc come up. The actors are the least of it. If you've every witnessed a Broadway tech, it is watching paint dry because it goes so slow. You need a lot of time. And yes, lots of jobs have 10-12 hour shifts and its not viewed as a BIPOC issue.

Hal Prince - Cock Sucker.

Virginia Wolfe - Imelda - Act One.

Thanks, R346!

My PBS donor program guide had that by another title, however.

Virginia Wolfe - Imelda - Act Two.

Virginia Wolfe - Imelda - Act Three.

A decent copy of Pirates of Penzance, with Patricia as Ruth.

I had to check out the "What a dump" and then stayed on till the "...BRAY!". That's it. Couldn't get further.

I know this is the least of DL's concerns with Imelda, but she's clearly in very good shape. Not very Martha in that respect.

Diana Rigg evidently didn't rate herself in the role. Did anyone see her as Martha? Billie Whitelaw and Glenda Jackson are two other Brits who famously failed to soar in the role. Interesting how the original London Martha was American while the George was Irish.

I saw Diana Rigg and David Suchet in WAOVW. They were both extraordinary.

^^ agreed on Rigg/Suchet.

R 345, right, but you do not really explain why the days have to be so long. Why not more days with fewer hours each? As has been pointed out in opera the techs do not involve such long days. In Britain they do it in less time total.

Why do we do it this way?

Dear R351, thank you so much! I'm amazed. Where did it come from? The quality is so much better than the Broadway Theatre Archive version that was commercially released.

Did you see Routledge's "I've Been to a Marvelous Party", aged 91?

R358 I believe from the DVD. I know, such good quality, finally!

What website do you use to rip from YT?

y2mate or clip converter

I have a friend who runs a regional theater and we were discussing this topic last week. He basically said that it is worth considering, but basically if you get rid of 10 out of 12s each production will have to add a week of rehearsal. That is expensive. Now, almost every theater I know of isn’t exactly swimming in cash, so this would just be yet another Financial burden. And my bet is the various unions will do exactly nothing to help out.

Shame the Kathleen Turner WAOVW didn’t go to London.

It did. I saw it in London.

I have the DVD of Penzance and it looks like shit compared to that rip, even though they're the same source.

Maybe yours is a bootleg?

[quote]R352 I had to check out the "What a dump" and then stayed on till the "...BRAY!". That's it. Couldn't get further.

It’s all very...declaratory.

Thought you all might to know I had a creepy dream last night in which Jo Anne Worley was a serial killer. She lived in a big trailer with a bunch of roommates. It started out as a sitcom we were shooting, but then unfortunately it all became all to real.

I escaped, tho.

That is all.

Yes, r368, indeed! Well, guess I'll have to watch this this evening:

*Designing Women*

TONIGHT, 8:30 PM 30 MIN 1992

SEASON 6 • EPISODE 17 • MAMED • COMEDY / SITCOM • 61 METASCORE

A Broadway has-been vows to make Julia rue the day that she stole the role of "Mame" from her in Anthony's community-theater production. Jeff: Sean Ryan. Julia: Dixie Carter. Anthony: Meshach Taylor...

r369 - Guilty conscience, Joyce?

R367 Nah, I also have the professionally made Broadway Archives (i.e., not a boot) DVD of Pirates and it is really lousy looking. This rip is at least 10x better quality.

r370 Please tell me there's a crossover cameo from Phyllis Hammerow, Miami's answer to Meryl Streep.

There’s a “Pirates” on BroadwayHD, that looks like crap as well

I had no idea that Pirates was available in a far superior version. The commercial release is crap. Who the hell said it was ok to release it?

Weren't Bells Are Ringing and Candide only in mono? They, like MFL, were recorded in '56.

I grew up listening to the London MFL. It was what was sold when I was a boy. I thought it was the OBC. Imagine my surprise when I found out it wasn't.

[quote]Miami's answer to Meryl Streep.

I was not aware I had asked Miami any questions.

Oh, R376...

I believe it was one of the first recorded in Stereo.

R373, unfortunately there's no one from the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater *BUT* Gretchen Wyler does play the tough boozy grande dame of the community theatre who is none too pleased playing "Vera" to Julia's "Mame." I've always assumed the part was written for Dixie's ol pal Elaine Stritch but timing (or money) led to Wyler's casting. This episode and Rick McKay's Broadway: The Golden Age are really my only two exposures to Miss Wyler. She seems... a very particular personality.

In an inspired bit, Mary Jo plays "Gooch;" Annie Potts truly woulda looked ravishing coming down the staircase after the makeover.

Candide OBC was definitely in stereo. But there's a mono version as well. Don't know if the performances are different in any way, as in Funny Girl.

I was reminded why I didn't watch those later seasons of DW, r379. But, it *was* great to see Gretch!

This record cover is a true work of art....

On what planet r382?

[quote]Candide OBC was definitely in stereo. But there's a mono version as well. Don't know if the performances are different in any way, as in Funny Girl.

I interviewed someone at Columbia Records many years ago, and he told me that when they released Candide on CD for the first time, they discovered that there was a difference in what Pangloss says to introduce the first song in the stereo version versus the mono version. I can't remember what it was, though.

Back in the day most albums (of any kind, not just Broadway) were released in both mono and stereo versions. The stereo version usually cost a buck more than the mono version.

FOLLIES!

A NEW ORTHOPHONIC HIGH FIDELITY RECORDING

Excuse me... but who are THESE whores??

What age was Gretch at r381? Her dancing is not engaging. It seems very "careful."

[quote]R306 The Best Worst Thing that Ever Could Have Happened (2016)

Wow. Thank you for posting that. A friend and I used to listen to MERRILY a lot in college, and that brought me back.

It’s bittersweet seeing how much the performers loved the show, and yet how much pain it also brought them. Seeing them back in their old dressing rooms is moving.

[quote]R389 What age was Gretch at [R381]? Her dancing is not engaging.

Your BUTT is not engaging!

My butt has been engaged more times than I can count.

Am I the only one who never found the whole Broadway Backwards/Miscast thing at all clever or interesting? It just seems like an excuse for chorus boys to act even more campy and queeny than they usually do.

[quote]This record cover is a true work of art....

Gretchen's ass must have its own Zip code.

But never made it to the altar, r392.

Butt quite a few of the honeymoons were incredible r395.

The girl had curves...

But the face...

If this were a portrait of me, I would have shot the photographer in retaliation.

I agree with R393. What is the point? Most of the performers at these events aren't using their songs as opportunities to actually play with gender in an entertaining and surprising way.

A bunch of tired, slutty chorus boys playing at being tired, slutty "dance hall hostesses?" That's just another night on Fire Island, or in the closest gay bar. It's like most drag acts, minus the dresses. Nothing new.

Tired.

I'm getting a Mamie Van Doren vibe from the photo of Gretchen at R397.

[quote]If this were a portrait of me, I would have shot the photographer in retaliation.

Looks kind of like Judy Collins after a night of black beauties and quaaludes.

I'm always surprised when performers get nosejobs later in life.

But I guess she focused on getting TV/movie work from 1980s onwards.

Not much of an actress, but I adore her lemonade.

I always assumed she was director William Wyler’s daughter.

But she’s a [italic] Wienecke[/italic] from Oklahoma!

Gretchen Wyler was standby for Lauren Bacall in "Applause." As befits a star in her own right, Wyler was not listed in the "Applause" Playbill. She never went on, as Bacall did not miss shows.

I bet her But Alive would have been great.

^ And I wonder if she did it in stock.

Did Gretch play the role in the regions?

I wish there was more footage of her dancing. It would be nice to see her do the Yankees and Charity choreography.

[quote]Did Gretch play the role in the regions?

Possibly the nether regions.

Stritchy...

Annie Get Your Gun with Mary Martin.

All My Sons with David Suchet and Zoe.

Annie Get Your Gun with Dolores Gray.

[quote]If this were a portrait of me, I would have shot the photographer in retaliation.

And yet it's possible the photographer did the very best possible for anyone with what he had to work.

Wyler was best known on Broadway for her part in Silk Stockings that Janis Paige played in the wonderful Freed film version.

Glorious Technicolor, breathtaking Cinemascope and stereophonic sound....

[Quote] And yet it's possible the photographer did the very best possible for anyone with what he had to work.

Photography is your passion?

Here's another 1970s shot of Wyler. It's much more flattering. The photographer did good work.

Her looks was just fine...sheesh. I remember her and Miss Roth coming to my city in Reardon....but I didn't see it.

It's a shame Lillian Roth was finished in movies at such a young age. She would have been perfect to do much of Merman's oeuvre on screen, if she'd been in good health.

Wyler looks tall as well as leggy and curvy, a rare combo. She was probably a knockout onstage.

There's a long proud tradition of "jolie-laide" ladies on the. Broadway stage.

With Buddy Hackett.

Did Richard Rodgers produce any of her early productions?

I could see Rigg getting the point that Martha has to be charming and sexy which is ... um .... lost on Imelda

Wasn’t there a brand of lemonade called Wylers? I assumed Gretchen was the heiress of that company.

Is that the famous “Beaver Callout” number she was famous for, R424? I’ve often wondered about it —

[quote]Wasn’t there a brand of lemonade called Wylers? I assumed Gretchen was the heiress of that company.

Apparently not. Wyler was just her stage name. See R405/R406.

I assume her autobiography is hard to find.

Gretchen Wyler sometimes appeared as a panelist on "To Tell the Truth." Here she is in a show from 1962.

Somebody got this on eBay for $40.00.

Her Memorial Playbill...

She also appeared on a NY based sitcom called "On Our Own" in the late 70s created by Bob Randall, but I'll always remember her Eve Harrington story in the Broadway documentary.

With Gene Rayburn in Birdie...

Well...my goodness...

R95 No, the chipmunk cheeks lady was Jane Wyman, though a very talented actress (and a good singer, too).

Judi had "As Time Goes By" which is great fun and "A Fun Romance" opposite her real-life husband, which was ok (just saw a few episodes).

I believe they're referring to Cook's Hitchcock episode, r436. Anyway...

* * *

Press Photo Actress Gretchen Wyler in "An Evening With Gretchen Wyler"

This is an original press photo. Gretchen Wyler, a most artfully constructed young blonde, will enhance the television tube when she stars in a musical "An Evening With Gretchen Wyler." Gretchen, well-known to New York theatre audiences as a dancer, comedienne, and singer, has been featured on every musical variety series on TV in the last several years.

"An Evening With Gretchen Wyler" sounds exhausting.

R211 More proof that Eddie Ryan taught Fannie Brice everything she knows.

Well, maybe she did teach her her to pick her clothes.

R437 A Fine Romance.

I think "An Evening With Bombshell Betty" would have been even more exhausting, r439.

I saw Gretchen Wyler as Vera against Mariette Hartley's Mame in summer stock around 1990. She was the best thing in the show.

Wasn’t she in Sly Fox by Larry Gelbart

Gretchen Wyler was a meeskite, plain and simple.

[quote] She also appeared on a NY based sitcom called "On Our Own" in the late 70s created by Bob Randall

And if anyone would care to see a true forgotten 70s sitcom, it's currently on Amazon Prime. The entire first season/full series minus three episodes. It's pretty terrible but oddly compelling. Dixie Carter is a regular and she's a fucking hoot.

Wyler slept with Cole Porter to get him to give her a song in Silk Stockings. The moment it was in her contract she cut him off. He took his revenge on her by writing Silk and Satin which she was forced to sing or she would have no solo number. To spite him she managed to make it a showstopper and she got the reviews stealing the show from Hildegarde, Don Ameche and Peter Lorre.

Gretchen Wyler slept with Cole Porter? Wanna bet?

r445 That's the show that introduced us to Bess Armstrong and Lynnie Green, later a DL fave for playing the young Dorothy Zbornak.

Fun fact: There was another short-lived sitcom with the same name that featured DL icon JUSSIE SMOLLETT!

[quote]Wyler slept with Cole Porter to get him to give her a song in Silk Stockings.

This story has a fundamental flaw.

R446's post appears to be a lame attempt at parodying the well known story of Porter, Harold Lang and Kiss Me, Kate.

A black and white version of The Hallmark Hall of Fame's wonderful abridged version of The Fantasticks has circulated widely for years. It was always assumed to a be a kinescope of the color broadcast but a commenter on youtube revealed a few years ago that it was actually a final rehearsal, taped in B&W to help the DOP and director make decisions on camera angles, transitions, etc.

At any rate a color version of the actual broadcast has recently surfaced and been posted to youtube by someone who helpfully cut in a few missing minutes with the equivalent footage from the B&W version. So here you are.... It is September.... Before a rainfall....

IIRC, Susan Watson did all the college workshops pre New York of The Fantasticks and was always the creators first choice for Louisa. But by the time the show finally reached New York off Broadway, she had done Bye, Bye Birdie and was no longer available. She's wonderful if not perfect but the extreme close ups around her eyes did her no favors at all.

[quote]Mariette Hartley's Mame

I'm gonna be picking pieces of my brain off the floor and walls for months.

I can top that, r453. I saw Mariette Hartley play Desiree in ALNM on the resuscitated Kenley Players circuit in the mid-80s.

Who saw her as Mrs. Lovette?

I can see her more as Desiree than as Mame. But I'm not disappointed that I saw her as neither.

Thanks so much R 451! Bert Lahr and Stanley Holloway alone are worth it! They don`t make them like that anymore.

Who saw Mariette's Hedda?

I saw Mariette Hartley at the Delacorte in Shakespeare's KING JOHN. She played Constance and she was pretty good at it. If she can dance well, she can play Mame in that shitty musical.

I never miss a Mariette Hartley musical.

Mariette was NO Gretch.

I HATE animals.

Gretchen Wyler was the Karen Ziemba of her day. Both of them are just so darned... good.

I think "The Gretch Who Stole Christmas" would have been a natural for a TV Special...

Gretchen Wyler was no Dolores Gray.

I loved my Gretch-a-Sketch when I was a kid.

Dolores Gray was no Betty Bacall...

I had a Skitch-a-Sketch...

[Quote] Her head was bigger for one thing

And Dot had pitch and range.

And a bigger head, r469...

How's my head?

Watch the teeth, Dot...

I did wonder about the Richard Rodgers' casting story here...

Oh dear God, 40 postings about Gretchen Wyler? Seriously?

[quote]I had a Skitch-a-Sketch...

My Stritch-a-Sketch pictures always seemed the same.

Thank God it didn't come with speakers, r475!

Seriously, r474...

Susan Johnson never got to record an album, did she? Shame.

I searched and came up with this...

Evita - The Making Of.

Moon For The Misbegotten - with Jason and Colleen.

The Met has cancelled their entire season and will not come back until a year from now, September 2021.

Expect the same for Broadway.

^ Fucking fuck, I miss the Met lots. Fuck.

Leonard Soloway.

Cosi!

The second time I saw Mariette Hartley on stage, it was as Frau Schneider in Cabaret at Studio 54, a much better fit than Mame. The most interesting thing about her Mame was when her skirt fell off in the middle of 'That's How Young I Feel'.

Mariette would have made a good Miss Mona.

R474 If you have a problem with 40 postings on Gretchen Wyler on a DL theater thread you might want to turn in your gay card.

Chemistry...

Sooooo.....whatever happened to Aurora Spiderwoman?

R489 he said a 'summer break'. But strange all the content is gone as well.

Leonard Solloway is many things; nice is not among them.

R491 Spill, please. Found it fascinating in the documentary they kept in the clip at the end when he hits on the twink waiter. No #MeToo for lenny.

DL fave Robbie Fairchild now has a side business as a florist.

Did Mariette give us a SUNSET BOULEVARD?

I don’t know if I’m excited or frightened to google it...

Gretch in a pensive mood....

[quote]Gretch in a pensive mood....

An yet all I notice are those big bazooms.

That's the idea.

Mariette Hartley as Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter" at the Colony Theatre in Burbank.

I vaguely recall Mariette Hartley appearing in "The King and I" somewhere. I think I saw a clip on "Entertainment Tonight." I didn't have the pleasure of seeing the actual performance.

Where is her Phaedra? Her Mrs. Alving? Her Juliette’s Nurse?

We were robbed.

Sunset Blvd

IF you’re weary of Gretchen Wyler posts, we could shift to Karen Morrow or Nancy Dussault.

What about Karen Akers?

[quote]IF you’re weary of Gretchen Wyler posts, we could shift to Karen Morrow or Nancy Dussault.

Somethin' WRONG with Mariette Hartley?

Mariette’s Mussy was her online name

[quote]F you’re weary of Gretchen Wyler posts, we could shift to Karen Morrow or Nancy Dussault.

What am I, chopped liver?

The gal could rock a caftan. And in the end, that’s what the [italic]true stars[/italic] are remembered for.

I just looked up the Robbie Fairchild florist business. For $150-$250, he'll send you over a bunch of flowers (YOU supply the vase) and then will give you a vimeo tutorial on how to arrange them.

Really?

Also, he's got absolutely no body to speak of. He's an unformed twink twig.

Thanks for that Moon for the Misbegotten R481. I've always wanted to see that.

If Robbie delivers in the nude, I might be persuaded.

Other NYC performing arts orgs will follow The Met and cancel through Fall 2021 -- Symphony, ABT, etc...Not a fun week.

Aurora’s back...

Bless you, r512! Sutton, eat your heart out.

Susan Johnson...

Caftan fever!

Thank goodness this clip is back. Theatricality at its finest...

Lucky Stiff.

John.

The Mystery of Charles Dickens.

R516 it says that it played in the National Theatre/Lyttelton, but didn't it play the Olivier?

Sweet Charity - 1986 - House Cam.

Mariette Hartley was a perfectly pleasant performer - but aside from commercials I imagine she was about the 4th choice for every role she landed (?).

I just can’t imagine producers screaming, [italic], “Get me Hartley OR ELSE...!”

Mmmm...R523, Jacob Morris is a hot silver daddy.

[quote]My understanding (and someone please correct me if I’m wrong) is that it’s not about theatre rental; the production has already been in the theatre for weeks prior to tech rehearsals. It’s about the actors. Six 12 hour days is cheaper than nine 8 hour days because the Union makes allowances for 10 out of 12s. This might also be the case with IATSE. I don’t know.

Thanks. If that's the actual reason, I think it's ridiculous, and it points up the stupidity of whatever union has those rules.

[quote]So apparently none of you work in the theatre. The reason for 10/12s has always been for the good of the whole. As someone above wrote, its incredibly intense time of coordination, communication , and stage management, sound, lights, sets, costumes all trying to learn/create their show. To do that, they need long, concentrated hours, and you need to be together for long stretches because so many questions, etc come up.

Some of us DO understand how tech rehearsals works, but you still haven't explained why it's better to do have, say, three12-hour tech rehearsals than four eight-hour tech rehearsals, and why the former allows more "concentration" than the latter. As someone else wisely said, there is probably less concentration on everyone's part at the end of each long day, as fatigue starts to set in. So if you could explain yourself a little better that would be appreciated. (P.S. I certainly do agree that the length of those rehearsals has absolutely nothing to do with BIPOC issues.)

[quote]The quality is so much better than the Broadway Theatre Archive version that was commercially released.

Really? Both look the same to me, but I'm sure we all still appreciate the link.

R380, I know at least one track, "The Party's Over," is heard in two different takes on the mono and stereo BELLS ARE RINGING. Holliday's singing on the mono version is much softer and sweeter. And as we all know, at least one song -- "Cornet Man" -- is heard in two different takes on the mono and stereo versions of FUNNY GIRL. I'm really not sure why they did that. Anyone?

[quote]A black and white version of The Hallmark Hall of Fame's wonderful abridged version of The Fantasticks has circulated widely for years. It was always assumed to a be a kinescope of the color broadcast but a commenter on youtube revealed a few years ago that it was actually a final rehearsal, taped in B&W to help the DOP and director make decisions on camera angles, transitions, etc. At any rate a color version of the actual broadcast has recently surfaced and been posted to youtube by someone who helpfully cut in a few missing minutes with the equivalent footage from the B&W version.

R451, I'm pretty sure the black and white version is a kinescope of the actual broadcast that's now available in color. I noticed years ago in watching the B&W version that Susan Watson starts to sing just a bit behind the beat in one part of "Much More" (the "I'd like to dance till two o'clock" part), and it's the same in the color version.

Wow, that house cam video of Sweet Charity is awful. What the hell were they shooting it for? You can't see a thing.

Unfortunately you can still hear Ann Reinking's terrible performance.

R530 So true.

I find it hard to see Bert Lahr as the father of John Davidson.

R512 Why are the audience applauding at 2m25s? Were 80s audiences really that impressed by a stage elevator? No wonder the helicopter in Miss Saigon blew people's minds.

On a similar note, why do people always applaud during the middle of Hot Honey Rag? Am I missing the part that's meant to be so special it merits applause? Or is it just because they look at the audience?

Wow. I didn’t realize Reinking was doing her Gwen impression as early as Charity. Except that Gwen in 1966 still sang okay-ish, certainly far better than Reinking did in 1986.

Show Girl with Carol Channing.

On Stage.

Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake.

Jason Robert brown concert.

Why, whatever do you mean, r532?

It's the synchronization, r533.

"On a similar note, why do people always applaud during the middle of Hot Honey Rag? Am I missing the part that's meant to be so special it merits applause? Or is it just because they look at the audience?"

The applause is usually started by people associated with the show .

R540 I assumed as much, maybe it's just me but it doesn't seem all that applause-worthy though.

R541 The only thing stopping me from believing this is the thought of the Weisslers holding tickets off sale

Thank you so much, r536! I was the president of the Maggie Garland Fan Club! She was swell!

Attempt it with a partner and get back to me, r542.

R544 I assume you've never criticised a meal at a restaurant unless you've cooked it once before?

Huh?

R542, you never heard of ushers ? They and others associated with the production start the applause and the audience follows.

Love the "Odile" act of the MB Swan Lake. Swans don't get any badder than that one. Brian Kinney as swan.

The Hot Honey Rag was an exceptional show stopper. Applause did not need encouragement from anyone.

The Hot Honey Rag is not that great. Not that interesting to watch, so it really just coasts on the feeling you have for the characters after 2and a half hours.

But watch it out of context and you see how threadbare the choreography is. That weird curved jump that Fosse put in every show--you knew with only a few minutes left it had to show up here too!

I think The Hot Honey Rag is fantastic, both Fosse’s stage version and Rob Marshall’s shorter movie version. Oddly, one of the best danced versions is Tony Yazbeck and Michael Barresse in one of those “Miscast” shows. They are terrific, & the choreography (Fosse’s original) is dynamite and quite exciting.

^ If only it was online to share....

I’ve had sufficient.

The clip R552 posted is great to see how empty the choreography are. The two guys are great dancers and their performance is terrific. But the choreography is not supporting them---they are supporting it.

I realize that a lot of the Broadway choreographers did not develop because they only did a show every year or two or three. So they could get away repeating themselves, since the audience would not have a detailed memory of their last few shows. Meanwhile Balanchine, Robbins. Graham, Taylor etc were showing so much new work every year that they had to develop or lose their audience.

Robbins

Romantics Anonymous.

I'll definitely have to watch this tonight...

THAT GIRL

TONIGHT, 8:30 PM 30 MIN 1968

SEASON 3 • EPISODE 10 • THE SEVENTH TIME AROUND • COMEDY / SITCOM

Don's friendship with wealthy---and much-married---Trixie Weatherby (Benay Venuta) has Ann seething. Ann: Marlo Thomas. Don: Ted Bessell. Earl: Ivor Barry...

[quote] Romantics Anonymous.

Ooh, lovely, thanks. I had a ticket for this at the Annenberg in late March and the production was canceled because of the Covid.

My goodness, Benay was SO coarse and brassy!

Oh, Mare...

More contemporary performers: Sing, Sing, Sing by high schoolers.

[quote]I think The Hot Honey Rag is fantastic,

I agree, and I'm surprised that anyone disagrees. Then again, this is the DataLounge....

Anyway, aside from how one feels about the quality of the choreography in the number, I'm sure a MAJOR reason why the audience tends to burst into applause during it is that it's the final number in the show AND the first and only time the two stars have danced together throughout the entire performance. Isn't that an obvious reason for the applause -- obvious to anyone with a brain, at least?

Wow, r561! Now I want to see them do Beat Me Daddy, Eight to the Bar.

R562 How insecure in your own opinions are you that you have to pretend anyone who doesn't share them is brainless?

And the applause always comes at the same point, so it's not like it's just spontaneous at the joy of seeing them dance together. Nor is it at the first time they synchronise, nor is it at a particularly challenging part of the routine - one is walking behind the other and they're sticking their arms out, that particular moment is hardly impressive, and yet always gets applause.

Well, r564, some obviously *do* find it impressive.

No thank you...

Have some of you stooped so low that you have to question why some people applaud a great number from two stars?

Well, If it's true that the applause in the "Hot Honey Rag" always seems to come in the same place, and not necessarily the most exciting part of the number, then I think it's a fair question to ask why that happens. I haven't seen thatmany live performances of CHICAGO to have noticed if this is true. I wouldn't put it past the Weisslers to have one or two hired people in the audience to start applause at that point, if that's what someone's implying.

Better copy of Romantic Anonymous.

Wrestling with Angels.

R567 Ugh, no, I'm not questioning why people would applaud a number, I'm questioning why a specific spot always seems to get applause. But instead that's somehow been twisted into me being brainless and hating the number, when actually it's the opposite. It's the very fact I like the number which led to me watching different videos of it, and noticing the applause always at the same spot.

For anyone curious, I've linked to the Tony performance to the moment I'm talking about - 2m08s if the timestamp doesn't work. It gets applause at the same time during the performance of HHR in Fosse, at the My Favorite Broadway concert, and so on.

In fact, the same spot gets applause in performances by Chita and Gwen, so this isn't the Weisslers doing - and in fact the Chita and Gwen version on that particular moment is less impressive than the revival, as they're further apart.

The Cherry Orchard.

And the Gwen/Chita version getting the same applause at the same spot.

Why do people always applaud -- and not just at the theater -- when the ensemble breaks into a kick line?

[quote] For anyone curious, I've linked to the Tony performance to the moment I'm talking about - 2m08s if the timestamp doesn't work. It gets applause at the same time during the performance of HHR in Fosse, at the My Favorite Broadway concert, and so on.

I can explain the applause for the Tony performance: the audience was eagerly anticipating the moment when Ann steps on Bebe's foot at 2:17.

It's the synchronicity, dammit! I don't care if if you don't get why that gets the applause there. It's hard to do...sheesh.

One of the worst bits in the Season 1 finale of Smash was when the audience applauds in the middle of Karen’s performance of “Don’t Forget Me.” It’s supposed to be a fucking tryout in Boston, not American Idol. Jesus.

#TeamKaren for SMASH.

Sorry not sorry.

[quote]In fact, the same spot gets applause in performances by Chita and Gwen, so this isn't the Weisslers doing - and in fact the Chita and Gwen version on that particular moment is less impressive than the revival, as they're further apart.

Fair enough. So if it's not the Weisslers' doing, and if that same moment has gotten applause in several different performances over the years, what do YOU think is the reason for it if it's not just a spontaneous reaction on the part of the audience? I'm thinking it IS a spontaneous reaction on the part of the audience, because the two of them doing that step together does look great even if it's not the most difficult dancing in the number by far.

R579 If I had an idea I wouldn't be asking, would I? I was wondering if it was some kind of reference or tribute I wasn't getting, but clearly not. I guess it is spontaneous then. Just spontaneously happens at the exact same spot every time. Such a bizarre amount of hostility from some posters here for such an innocuous question.

I guess Broadway audiences were similarly spontaneously moved to applause by a stage elevator moving Patti LuPone down by a couple of feet.

I love all these people who think that applause in the middle of a dance number is a repeated spontaneous phenomena.

Do they think every audience at the Messiah for the last two hundred years have just spontaneously stood for the Hallelujah Chorus because they are so moved by the music?

If it happens at every performance for every pair of actresses in the roles, that tells you the applause comes from either custom or an usher starting the applause.

People start applauding in a certain place in that number for the same reason that applause happens in A Chorus Line in the big finale when they all join in the circle. It’s a build up of the difficulty of the choreography and the showiness of the technique required to get through that part and it works perfectly with the music.

The dull pedant who keeps arguing about this is a moron and a troll. Stop engaging it. Hot Honey Rag is a fucking classic, so shut the fuck up. The Weisslers hiring people to start applause. Lol. Are you a complete fucking retard? The Weisslers are so cheap they barely pay scale. You think they are hiring audience members?? Ahhahaha just stop.

You do not "hire" anyone to start applause. You just let the staff know where you want it.

And when I saw the tour of Chicago, it was definitely the two concession guys who started the applause there.

And the ghost of Carol Channing’s husband.

Re the applause? For the love of Jesus, LET IT GO!

Chicago! No HHR Dammit.

title of show

Cav Pag. Do people watch Operas?

Present Laughter - NO, not that one.

The production of CAV/PAG linked to by R589 is shockingly bad in terms of the direction and the production itself, especially the "sets," so if you're going to watch it for that reason, don't.

Isn't it the Encores production?

Lily

Diction, PATRICIA.

I don’t understand this obsession with the audience applauding that moment in Hot Honey. Who cares? The audience found it exciting. Whatever. I didn’t notice Ann stepping on Bebe’s foot, but I did notice how much better Ann’s dancing is.

She’s not stepping on her foot. It’s a really weird step that has this strange little toe point added to it. It looks like she’s goofing ‘ then recovering, but she’s not.

Hot Honey is the 11 o'clock number of Chicago. People applaud. What is your favorite 11 o'clock number? Here are some picks from the staff at todaytix.com:

From Playbill:

Another voice heard from:

The answer is Rose's Turn for best 11 o'clock number.