Jane Fonda on Barbs saying she made Jane’s career

Jane said she's done with plastic surgery so what we see is what we get from hear on out.

THE SWIMCAP HAIR ISN'T HELPING

Barbra’s got a lot of nerve! Actors turn down roles all the time. If Jane had not been such a great actress, she never would have been offered the roles.

Reminds me of Liz Taylor’s response to Barbara Walters asking her about Bette Davis’ thoughts on Liz doing “what a dump”.

Barbra would have been terrible in both roles. It's one of those ones like Bette Midler turning down Misery - I adore Bette, but she couldn't play Annie Wilkes

Barbra would have ruined all those movies so it turned out for the best.

What an ego Streisand has. Like she could touch the hem of Jane Fonda's dress as an actress.

Jane is still a vibrant and sexy woman. I wonder if she has a girlfriend.

That actress that wrote The Mommie Dearest Diaries talked about Barbra being one of the worst filmmakers in Hollywood. How she degrades everyone around her.

Barbra also said that Jane's workout empire was stolen from her after she (Babs) did the movie "The Main Event"

Didn’t Jane say in an interview in the 70s/80s that she used to be like “go to Faye” when she’d turn down roles lol

Barbra also said she turned down "On GoldenPpond," and would have done the back flip much better than Jane did off the pier, and would have been more believable as Henry Fonda's daughter.

Hello, Deluded.

Here in an interview Barbara says Jane Fonda called her after "A Star Is Born" hit theatres to thank her for paving the way in producing the movie, and that she (Fonda) was going to start producing as well

Go 35:50 into video below

Barbra was never a good actress. Jane was always a better actress and this clearly upsets Barbra. I am sure Barbra also is upset by Streep who at this point has done more musicals than ugly lazy Barbra.

I mean, she's kinda got that frozen-face mask thing going on, like Cher and the late Joan Rivers, which has gradually become normal looking as more and more senior Hollywood women go that route.

You used to look at that kind of face and think "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???", but over the past couple of decades, it's been normalized to the point where nobody bats an eye (including Jane, who looks like she can barely move her facial muscles at all).

I used to work in Beverly Hills about 10 years ago, and saw a lot of that type of face...in person, it can look pretty startling and creepy.

Not knocking it...aging is tough, especially for women working in an industry that blatantly judges them on their looks, so more power to her. It's just a little sad to me, as she was such an icon of feminism, part of me wanted her to resist this type of thing.

In the end, it's her face and her body, she can do with it what she wants, she's still the amazing Jane Fonda and will always be.

I LOVE "Julia" and her performance in it.

[quote] You used to look at that kind of face and think "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT???"

You mean, as opposed to Barbra Streisand's face?

Meryl Streep SALUTES Jane Fonda and publicly thanks Jane for her first movie role "Julia"

Hideous!

Testimonials from one Hollywood star to another are so meaningful.

Praise does not come easily in Hollywood.

Papa can you hear me?

Jane and Meryl are role models for generosity and hard work.

Barbra on the other hand drives a go-cart around in her underground mall, eating ice cream and shopping for dolls.

What on earth does Streep do for society?

Philanthropy and activism on several causes including the environment and women’s issues. What do you do?

[quote]from hear on out.

Oh, dear.

"Barbs"?

I think Barbra with the the help of Sue Mengers became a deluded narcissist. She was a big star in the 70’s but was not really easily cast.

I made Bill Murray’s career — by overdosing.

Just how many pounds of scotch tape are hidden under that wig?

I was responsible for the victories of Bill Clinton, Barack Obama AND Lady Gaga. The idea to wear masks to stop the spread of COVID was my idea.

Barbra asked Lucille Ball if she should play Celie in The Color Purple. Gary Morten told Lucy to talk her out of it.

Did Ann Bancroft make Barbra's career by turning down Funny Girl?

I will say that Barbra is more suited to playing the ugly Jewish Lillian Helman than Jane, but she wouldn't have acted it better by a long shot.

I love Jane Fonda

Barbra would've been ridiculous in Klute, nobody would believe she was a top-dollar call girl. A young Jane Fonda was totally believable, you could accept that men would pay big bucks to fuck a woman who looked like her.

OP, would have been nice if you just synopsized what what Jane said. I don't want to watch a damn video to find out.

[quote] Didn’t Jane say in an interview in the 70s/80s that she used to be like “go to Faye” when she’d turn down roles lol

Faye Dunaway is a better actress than Jane Fonda, IMO.

[quote]I LOVE "Julia" and her performance in it.

It was a great performance and a great story, even though it was later learned that Lillian Hellman made the whole thing up. It was all bullshit.

Barbra played a high-priced call girl in "Nuts" and it was . . . a mistake.

[quote] Barbra also said she turned down "On GoldenPpond," and would have done the back flip much better than Jane did off the pier, and would have been more believable as Henry Fonda's daughter.

This sounds almost like Gary Morton talking Lucy out of everything....

r38 - Barbara was fine in the Owl and Pussycat. She has strong comedic skills that she could have done more with. Re turning down roles that someone else took and hit the jackpot, that's the original actor's fault for not realizing a star vehicle when they saw it. The queen of being Johnny-on-the-spot is Demi Moore. She was never first choice for her biggest roles.

- About Last Night - beat out Mariel Hemingway, Phoebe Cates and Melissa Leo. Somehow she got it.

- Ghost - turned down by Molly Ringwald and Meg Ryan, among others

- A Few Good Men - turned down by Jodie Foster and Michelle Pfeiffer

- Indecent Proposal - originally written for Cher, explain why Redford is old compared to Demi

- Disclosure - Annette Benning dropped out because she was pregnant

Yet, when Demi started making Demi-vehicles, her choices were horrendous: Scarlet Letter, The Juror, Striptease, GI Jane.

One can't say they gave their career to so-and-so by turning down specific roles, because it doesn't work that way. A great role in a star-making vehicle that is sitting around waiting for someone can be a huge success, but it's what they do afterward that matters.

Ghost with Molly....I can't imagine

With Barbra it would have been relocated to the Catskills and re-titled "On Goldberg Pond".

Can you imagine Streisand ruining 9 to 5?

For those who don't want to or can't okay the video, Jane says "Well, she has to say things like that to give herself a little boost, doesn't she? The poor thing has had such a rough life." Said with a smile.

They should do a movie called Old Whores with Babs, Cher and Madonna

[quote]- Indecent Proposal - originally written for Cher, explain why Redford is old compared to Demi

Everyone turned down Indecent Proposal according to legend. I'd have loved to see Tom Cruise's face when Warren Beatty offered $1m to fuck Nicole.

Not that Babs has the greatest sense of humour or self awareness, but could she have been joking when she commented about turning down those roles?

One of Jane's first roles was as Barbarella, Queen of the Galaxy.

Enough said. Post closed. Queen Babs started Jane's career.

QB hasn't carried a decent movie in over 40 years.

Who would have offered Klute to Streisand? An insane producer.

R48 No, but thanks for playing.

Streisand is going to die very old and still an incredibly insecure little girl.

Reminding me of ... Olivia De Havilland.

Other roles Barbra turned down.

Helen Mirren in The Queen

Jessica Lange in Tootsie

Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct

Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind

Glenda Jackson in Sunday Bloody Sunday

Gabourey Sidibe in Precious, Based On The Novel "Push" By Sapphire

Rosie Perez in Fearless

Barbra has no tact, and she seems to think it is endearing, which it is not.

Like when everyone gushed over Celine's last minute performance of Streisand's song at the oscars. Barbra could have complimented her as well, and thanked her for stepping in at a moments notice. Instead, she went around saying she didn't hear Celine's performance because she was in the bathroom during it.

Sue didn't turn barbara into a narcissist she has been one all her life.

Barbra wanted Sophie’s Choice and even offered to do it for free.

Oh, guess I'll watch Cavett....

*

TONIGHT, 1 HR 1973

LILLIAN HELLMAN, JACQUES COUSTEAU AND DR. FREDERICK DOCKSTADER • TALK

Jacques Cousteau talks about his four-month journey through Antartica. Lillian Hellman discusses her book Pentimento and the blacklisting era. Dr. Frederick Dockstader exhibits American Indian art...

Barbra never would have said something like that. I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding.

(quote]r11 Didn’t Jane say in an interview in the 70s/80s that she used to be like “go to Faye” when she’d turn down roles lol

Fonda freaked out a week before filming began on "Klute" because she'd hung out with real hookers while they were working and none of the potential customers approached her. So she felt she wasn't beautiful enough, and suggested the director get Dunaway.

He realized she was just needlessly panicking. (Faye would have been too starchy in the role, anyway.)

According to the New York Times, she said it.

That is why, she says, she turned down a number of plum roles in her first decade in Hollywood, including the starring roles in “They Shoot Horses, Don’t They?,” “Klute” and “Julia.” Those all went, memorably, to another actress. As Ms. Streisand says, in a deadpan aside, “I made Jane Fonda’s career.”

Except for the fact that Fonda was beautiful and could act. All Barbra ever did was play Fanny Brice. Over and over.

Maybe Babs was just making a joke. Jane was starring in movies before Streisand had even appeared at the Bon Soir.

Jane Fonda is one of very few people I believe would have made it in Hollywood without their connections. Off the top of my head, Michael Douglas and Liza Minnelli are a couple of others. They all would've been successful no matter what. That can't be said for most children of Hollywood. Gwyneth Paltrow comes to mind, she never would've made it on her own.

That is why Gwyneth had Harvey R64.

I don’t think any of them would have made it except for their patents

(Because that gave them a huge advantage)

Because Harvey had Gwyneth.

Fonda was horribly miscast in Julia. Barbra would have been much better in the role and would have won the Oscar.

Fonda is technically the better actress, but Barbra has 10x more charisma onscreen. It's why she became a superstar and legend, and Fonda didn't.

And yet people are talking about Fonda and not about Streisand R69.

Streisand has been nearly nonexistent on screen this century, and what little she's done has been pure shtick.

This was a typically messy question from Andy Cohen. Jane's response was dignified and made in jest. I've no clue if she's friendly with Babs (or Barbs, as OP calls her), but TBH Jane has bigger fish to fry, anyway. For all that can be said about Jane Fonda, she's not one to rest on her laurels. She has absolutely no reason to be out protesting at age 82 other than that she (gasp) actually cares about the environment. Many celebs put their $$$ behind such causes, but very few actively protest...much less write a book on said protesting.

I was offered Top Gun, Ferris Buehler and Blue Velvet- but I said no.

I don't have much against Babs, but nothing "for" her either. I know she has a reputation of being a diva - which I actually find somewhat endearing. Watching her in films, I find her unattractive, annoyingly shtick and generally unappealing onscreen. Yes, she had charisma in spades (much like Liza) - but it ends there. Streisand was somewhat decent only playing niche roles in movies that I don't particularly care for. I do think that she is/was a great singer technically although I can't say that I have ever loved any of her songs. I am a child of the 80's but have found appreciation for tons of talent who were famous "before my time"; her stardom and fame perplex me however. Jane is the opposite IMO. As other posters mentioned, her beauty alone would have made her a sensation in Hollywood with or without the nepotism. Still, she worked very hard to be more than just her looks and with time became a great actress as well. She has 2 acting Oscars to show for it. I believe Babs has one for acting and one for best original song. Good for her - but I still don't love her.

Given the context in R61 and the fact that Fonda was already in movies before then, it was definitely a joke from Streisand. She makes a lot of deadpan jokes in interviews.

Barbra. My dear Barbra.

You wouldn't have had a career if I hadn't turned down Funny Girl on Broadway. They were even trying to lure me into a Hollywood contract to do you film version but I don't do Hollywood. No pills and dope for me dear.

How many interns would Andy strangle to get Babs on WWHL?

[quote] Fonda is technically the better actress, but Barbra has 10x more charisma onscreen.

Gack. You’ve got be kidding.

Also, I would not say that Babs is really that much more of a superstar than Jane. It’s not as though Jane is gone forgotten; in fact, she commands a lot more attention than Babs these days.

^ Sorry for the typos/missing words above.

Reader, I plotzed.

Babs & Jane should get together from a lesbian remake of Staircase.

R21, she looks like Ruth Gordon in that pic.

Are you guys telling me Barbra was actually a high paid hooker in this?

R69 gave me a much needed laugh.

R61's article said Barbs was writing her memoir. That was in 2016, what happened?

Babs was joking. Jane made a joke. Her read was of Andy. You can usually see when Jane thinks an interviewer asks a stupid cunt question, such as here.

The same as what happened to her version of "Gypsy" R85

Would Dunaway have been good in Klute?

Faye would have been even better.

La di da la la

There is no way of knowing if Faye would have been better. I personally doubt it because Fonda was perfect.

Faye would *never* have done the snot crying.

Instead Faye sure had some clunkers drop around the release dates of Kllute and They Shoot Horses, Don't They: The Extraordinary Seaman, Puzzle of a Downfall Child, The Arrangement, The Deadly Trap.

R69 = Jason Gould.

If Babs had gotten "Julia", 2/3rds of Vanessa Redgrave's Oscar-winning performance would've ended up on the cutting-room floor.

[quote]She has 2 acting Oscars to show for it.

Really? Who did she steal one from?

I don't think either of these supremely talented, legendary ladies give a shit about an off-the-cuff comment made in the press by one of them.

They are both icons, and know how it all works. They may not be best friends, but they certainly know each other and respect each others' work, and the chutzpah it took for each of them to achieve their astounding level of success in the business.

Cohen is a bottom-feeder who's made his entire fortune by pitting women against each other and creating conflict for public consumption. Fuck him.

Having said that, I do get a vague sense that Barbra still harbors some insecurities, and maybe doesn't play as well with other women who are her professional equal. And that's OK...maybe that's just who she is. It's just a shame, because how great would it be to see her teamed up some other amazing ladies, a la "9 to 5"?

Barbra is estimated to be worth $400 million, which all came from music and acting. Fonda is worth half that at $200 million, which mostly came from her workout videos in the 1980s.

That makes it crystal clear how much more of a star and icon that Streisand is compared to boring Fonda.

That's ridiculous. Fonda has given away much of her fortune over the years.

Twenty years ago, I wouldn’t think there would be any comparison between Fonda and Streisand, given that Fonda essentially retired from filmmaking and Streisand still had some cultural cache. Now, though, I don’t think it’s a given that Streisand is the bigger star, even if she is richer.

Fonda has proven that she has multigenerational appeal, whereas Streisand is almost strictly a Baby Boomer phenomenon (plus Lea Michele, which isn’t really a selling point). She’s old-fashioned, that singer and actress your parents or grandparents like. Fonda may be older than Streisand, but her activism makes her feel far more relevant, and the long-running Grace and Frankie introduced her to younger generations.

It was probably inevitable that Streisand would end up like this. At the height of her fame, she specialized in throwbacks, lavish musicals and screwball comedies while Fonda was doing gritty movies like Klute, then kept reinventing herself over and over again. Fonda evolves, but Streisand really doesn’t. That’s why Jane is far more relevant now than Barbra is, even if that weren’t the case twenty or forty years ago.

[quote]Fonda has proven that she has multigenerational appeal

How exactly? Her sitcom with Lily was canceled due to low ratings. And Lily got all the critical praise for that show, not Jane.

Jane hasn't been in a relevant movie since On Golden Pond, and that movie's success had nothing to do with her. She was terrible in it.

Could you be a little less obvious in your trolling, R100? Fonda was nominated for an Emmy and the show lasted seven seasons. And she's been in plenty of "relevant" movies since OGP.

Jane definitely beats Barbra for acting.

Barbra definitely beats Jane for singing.

It’s true that Barbra is so self-involved that she rarely praises people. The only ones I can think of are Streep and John Mayer.

R97. They're both great, talented show business professionals regardless of their individual talents or business ventures. What's a couple hundred millions among giants?

But Jane comes very close to Barbra for singing.

She is Woman...

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Jane Fonda pushes her way IN FRONT of Babs to get better camera angle

Streisand was kidding when she made that statement very off the cuff- it was mostly a conversation about how lazy she said she could be. Fonda knows this and the two are good friends- in fact great admirers of each other not due to their entertainment careers but mutual passion for activism, progressive politics and philanthropy. This is like those who try to make Streep and Close rivals- stupid.

R99 clearly knows nothing about Streisand.

I agree r99. Barbra is more of a Boomer thing, Fonda has cross-generational appeal. And as far as the gay icon thing goes, I'm Gen X and Barbra has never been a big deal with my generation, Millennials even less so.

Connie Francis is a bigger star among the younger generation than Streisand.

[quote] She’s old-fashioned, that singer and actress your parents or grandparents like.

Ouch!

[quote] That makes it crystal clear how much more of a star and icon that Streisand is compared to boring Fonda.

Not necessarily. Some people are better with money than others.

Barbra seems like kind of a relic from another era, an old-timey self-absorbed "diva"-type star that's not fashionable and kind of ridiculous now.

Jane is still a very modern person, in spite of her age she's very connected to modern culture and society. Barbra is a bit Norma Desmond-ish.

Barbs and Jane should star in a remake of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?! Barbs as Jane, naturally.

Jane is pushing "White Fragility" on her website, yet Barbra's the ridiculous one?

[quote] She’s old-fashioned, that singer and actress your parents or grandparents like.

What's such an "ouch" about that, r112? It's true. My parents loved Streisand's movies; my friends and I (Gen X), with the exception of a few theater/musical queens, have no interest.

The only Gex X gays I've known who are really into Barbra are Jewish guys from the NY Metro area. No one else is really all that into her.

Madonna is THE gay icon of my generation, by a mile. Nobody else came close.

Although they both seem old now, Madonna is younger, maybe 1/2 a generation younger, than Babs. So, icon status may be generational.

Madonna is 62. Streisand at 78 is old enough to be her unwed high school mother.

This is where Bette Midler deserves a lot of credit. She knew her movie star days were a wrap, so she went back to Broadway and made Hello Dolly a smash hit and the cultural event of the season. She then took a supporting role on The Politician and might win an Emmy tomorrow for it.

I don't think Barbra wants to be bothered adapting at this point (but she did try with the Fockers movie and The Guilt Trip). She spent a decade pining over a role that she was already too old for. She'd rather build indoor malls and clone dogs than take an active interest in reinventing her career.

Barbra is still clinging to the very outdated "movie stars don't do tv" shit, which even movie stars of her generation (Jane, Robert Redford) abandoned some time ago. She's never changed with the times or adapted to the realities of the modern entertainment industry.

Remember their cover story in Life Magazine in the mid 80s, with Hawn, Fields and Lange? Why were Fields and Streisand photographed apart?

OMG r123 the styling on that photoshoot was horrible! They made all of those women look like 80s Fraus!

I went to a screening of Nuts before it was released and they were doing exit polls. When they asked me what I thought of the movie I said, "Nobody would pay to fuck Barbra, you should have gotten Jessica Lange." The guy looked at his friend and rolled his eyes and said, "Another one..."

Damn, how the HELL is she eighty-two?? Jesus, she looks like a stunning fifty year old.

Janie is a far superior actress than Babs. And the thing about Jane's peak work like Klute, They Shoot Horses Don't They, Coming Home and The China Syndrome is that her performances are just as good as they were back then.

I find a lot of Babs' performances hard to watch. Playing to the back row. Screechy and hammy. Although I enjoy her in The Way We Were - less hammy.

And Jane was able to let her co-stars shine. She didn't always have to be the main focus. Just watch 9 to 5. Jane doesn't have the laugh-out loud funny role but her performance is key to the film because she has such great chemistry with Dolly and Lily and her reactions were funny because her character was a bit uptight. Barbra couldn't have done a role like that. She would have made it so that she was loud, abrasive and had to be the main focus.

Dolly Parton had never acted before, and here she was in a big-budget A-List movie as her first acting job and she was very nervous. She said Jane couldn't have been kinder to her, and explained to her everything that was going on while they were filming the movie, basically teaching her the film-making process. I can't imagine Barbra doing any of that.

Yea, instead of those projects Babs did: Up The Sandbox, Funny Lady and For Pete's Sake.

[quote]Janie is a far superior actress than Babs.

Oh, dear.

[quote] Cohen is a bottom-feeder who's made his entire fortune by pitting women against each other and creating conflict for public consumption. Fuck him.

Thank you, r96. It took me about 2 minutes to see and know the same thing when I was cruising the channels and happened to land on one of the Housewives thingies where he has all of them gather on a big couch to answer his questions and provoke fights between them.

Cohen is ridiculing those women all the way to the bank. The sick thing is, they consent to it.

The Housewives exploit themselves. They would be completely irrelevant otherwise. They are willing to do anything to be on those shows. Don't blame Cohen.

Also in the camp of "Babs was joking." Jane is the better actress but Babs edges her out in comic roles. Cannot imagine Streisand in any of those movies she claims were offered her first.

lookin hot baby.... god i love her....liberal all the way !!!

[quote] Remember their cover story in Life Magazine in the mid 80s, with Hawn, Fields and Lange? Why were Fields and Streisand photographed apart?

Fields? Oh, dear.

Jane needs to stop doing this trash TV.

For R83, Barbs' "500 for head" scene:

Oy .... what a dog

Jane has clearly jumped into Joan Rivers territory with the plastic surgery and from here on in it gets worse. This type of surgery ages very badly and instead of looking like a melting figure at the end of House of Wax in 3D she'll have to keep getting more work done. She says she won't but she will. She's clearly addicted with her Dresden Doll look on her 82 year old bones. If Streisand and Jane were truly the feminists and independent women they claim to be they would have followed the paths of Vanessa Redgrave and Ruth Ginsberg. They would have been brave enough to look at old age in the mirror.

[quote]R96 how great would it be to see her teamed up some other amazing ladies, a la "9 to 5"?

After producing “Eyes of Laura Mars” Jon Peters considered doing a remake of “ The Women” with Babs as Sylvia, Raquel Welch as Crystal, and Dunaway as Mary.

That could have been interesting... depending. I wonder who put the kabosh on it.

Babs also had that shopping mall to run and that would cost a lot of money. If she didn't have the shopping mall she would be worth much much more.

[quote]R113 Not necessarily. Some people are better with money than others.

And some people NEED less money than others.

Babs’ avaricious nature is tied to growing up in poverty. Fonda grew up with conservative wealth, and knew she’d always be okay, even if it meant she didn’t have a Malibu compound with six houses on it.

[quote]- Indecent Proposal - originally written for Cher, explain why Redford is old compared to Demi

If this had happened there only would have been a short time-frame for it to occur- after Cher had the bulk of her surgery in 1986 and her Oscar win in 1988. It would have been a fantasy but Cher was sublime at that point, much more alluring than the abrasive Demi.

Oh no no no. Demi Moore’s whole claim you fame is that she was physically alluring. Cher was never in that class, looks wise. She’d have been a movie star much earlier, had she been.

^^ claim TO fame... not “you fame”.

Ouch.

R143 Cher stan here. She actually had her major work giant lips, full face, Etc right before she filmed Mermaids.

Compare the Cher of Moonstruck to the one in Mermaids it's a drastic facial difference, and it caused casting directors to think twice about using her from 1990 on .

R144 That may be true, Demi had a nice body, and decent face with the right amount of makeup. But her everywoman persona did not gel with her "alpha" personality, and rasping voice, etc. Cher with her much more polished actress skills, would have brought another level of class if she had filmed it between Moonstruck and Mermaids when she was busy inventing herself as a rock n' roll singer.

The only way I’d want to see an INDECENT PROPOSAL version starring Cher would be if Sonny played the Woody Harrelson part.

Barbra would have wanted to play the Dolly Parton character in 9 to 5. Dolly would not have been cast, or if in the small chance that she was, would have been reduced to playing Judy.

And you know who would have sang the theme song.

No man would pay Barbra $5 for sex, let alone $500. She is soooooo delusional.

[quote] No man would pay Barbra $5 for sex, let alone $500. She is soooooo delusional.

Why was she charging $500 for head, but only $400 to fuck her in R137?

Slut.

She has ALWAYS been deluded:

Omar Shariff

Robert Redford

Ryan O’Neal

Nick Nolte

None of these men would fall in love with her in real life.

Barbra...

That's actually pretty funny, R153.

Ryan O Neal and Redford were smitten with her.

Barbra was beautiful in the early 1970's. She's actually quite stunning in What's Up Doc? She's had several beautiful periods.

[quote]By the way Jane is looking bomb lately, sometimes she really get’s the facial procedures right and she’s rocking that silver klute hair do really well!

It's the ring lighting too, every celeb has them now and they do make them look great.

Barbra has had several beautiful periods? Sure.

I've never thought of Barbra as ugly. She was very pretty in her earlier films. The Way We Were she and Redford had great chemistry.

For me, her appearance in A Star is Born plus her abrasive personality that became very one-note in films really turned me off.

Jane looks terrible.

Barbra's aged with dignity.

And how!

They both have gone in deep with the plastic surgery.

Barbra was briefly pretty with the long straight hair in the early 70’s. When she started doing perms she became ugly again.

It was a joke. Amazing how queens here can be as snarky as can be but a celeb does it and you're rushing to Lindsay Graham's fainting couch.

Babs can do hooker.

What is up with her thinking she has a good side? LOL

Yea, right. And a man would pay $500 for a big nose? No way.

Is this what DL would've been like in the '70s?

I like Babs in TWWW, What's up Doc and For Pete's Sake.

For Pete's Sake, I don't understand the insecurities of all these actors.

Didn’t Barbara’s dad tell her she was too ugly to get ice cream? I think that really traumatized her. She always wanted to be seen as sexy, and desirable in movies to a blonde goy. But I like her kooky looks, like a Picasso with an interesting face (pre plastic surgery).

Doris Wilgus/Waverly/Wadsworth/Wellington/Whatever was a *low-rent* hooker, r163.

And she somehow upgraded in Nuts, despite being middle age.

[quote]Barbra was beautiful in the early 1970's.

Um, no.

[quote]Is this what DL would've been like in the '70s?

There are a lot of DLers who are still living in the 70s in 2020.

If it were the 70’s, I think DL would be obsessed with Barbra because of her voice and stardom. Didn’t snarky comments start with the web?

Please give us that, r172. Living in 2020 full-time is not exactly a breeze.

Didn’t Barbara allegedly bed Don Johnson, Warren Beatty, Pierre Trudeau, Ryan O’Neal and maybe Redford? Or was that made up?

And Omar Shariff and Sydney Chaplin. She has done very well for herself. And she looks damn stunning in Clear Day.

Don’t forget Andre Agassi, R175.

I thought Andre Agassi was just a beard so Jason could date him.

Sorry but I don’t think a lot of straight men would want to jump on this

John Simon was not kind in his reviews:

[quote] If Miss Streisand did not exist, she would have to be invented, as, I believe, she was. There may be uglier women in the world than Miss Streisand, but surely none that wears her ugliness—enhanced by monumental arrogance—with more bravura (Italian), panache (French) and chutzpah (Yiddish).

It's the make-up, the lighting and the oh-so-careful camera angles, r176...

John Simon was a shitheel.

You know you want it

I'm not really a Barbra fan, but that John Simon article was just cruel. What an asshole.

It was her step dad who called her ugly. She never knew her father who was supposed to have been a generous loving learned man. As opposed to the cold desperate narcissistic mother who raised her.

Neither Streisand nor Redford have never been able to lose themselves in a role...

Simon made another low blow in his book "Movies Into Film". It's not clear why he felt this way.

[quote] Pauline Kael has raved about Miss Streisand in the New Yorker, and voted for her as the best actress of the past year. This, I think, would be impossible if Miss Streisand did not look so pronouncedly ugly. I suspect that the success of this performer, not untalented but not exceptional either, hinges on the number of homely women who can identify themselves with her. Not the way one identifies oneself with, say, Sophia Loren, wishing and hoping that one looked even vaguely as good as she; but the way one identifies oneself with Streisand, confident that one looks every bit as bad as she, and look to what pinnacles she has ascended! She even gets the leading man.

[quote] A full-face closeup of Miss Streisand is a truly terrifying experience: as the camera moves in tighter and tighter, you know how Edmund Hillary must have felt, and there is no Tenzing Norkay to catch you if you slip, or just reel backward in horror. As for the star’s acting, Machiavelli observed ina letter: “I think that just as nature has given everyone a different face, so she has givem to all a different intellegence and imagination, and each acts accourding to this personality.”

[quote] Miss Streisand, perhaps because she lacks intelligence and imagination, is obliged to act according to her face - aggressively, smugly, and with a masturbatory delight in herself.

He trashed many women. He said Liza looked like a Beagle and likened Cybill Shepherd to Mussolini in drag. He hated Streep as well, though he didn't insult her looks.

While she was a great singer, Barbara has always been ugly.

Yes, R182, he was.

Jesus, John Simon was an asshole. I don't think Babs is any great beauty, but what's the point of writing a whole essay about her ugliness?

^^ White Male Privilege.

(I don’t mean that flippantly or sarcastically, either.)

John Simon was a bitter, angry asshole and a bigot. He was loathed by many.

^^ In response to:

[quote] r191 what's the point of writing a whole essay about her ugliness?

Oh... now I’m destroying everything, posting out of turn : (

More Simon:

[quote] What’s Up Doc: Miss Streisand looks like a cross between an aardvark and an albino rat surmounted by a platinum colored horse bun. Though she has good eyes and a nice complexion, the rest of her is a veritable anthology of disaster areas. Her speaking voice seems to have graduated with top honors from the Brooklyn Conservatory of Yentaism, and her acting consists entirely of fishily thrusting out her lips, sounding like a cabbie bellyaching at breakneck speed, and throwing her weight around.

[quote] The Way We Were: The difficulty is that even when Miss Streisand labors to appear sensitive and vulnerable, she cannot conquer our impression that, if she were to collide with a Mack truck, it is the truck that would drop dead. And, as always, I am repelled by her looks.

[quote] A Star is Born: But oh, is there ever Barbra! During the filming, she complained that there weren’t enough closeups of her. Either she was mistaken then, or even more mistaken later, when she reedited the film to suit her immense ego; it is full of enormous closeups of a face that even even medium-long shot, is an enormity.

[quote] The Main Event: Miss Streisand has never looked uglier or acted worse than in this movie.

OMG - what a cunt

Jane, Barbra or John?

Sad to say, but I agree BS looked awful in The Main Event.

They're both gross, but Barbra doesn't appear on Andy Cohen. Jane Fonda is so desperate for attention. Always. How low can you go?

Yes, R200, the despair is about what is happening to this planet and to raise awareness and get people to make a difference before it's too late. But keep ascribing it to other things to suit your biases.

Jane is flogging a book. She seemed to say that she would go on any show and do so.

Fonda champions whatever cause keeps her on camera r201. Always has according to my sources. I'm 45 years younger than she is, but my mom and grandma tell the stories. And I read her book and have watched Jane lap up gush off the floor. The environment isn't that sexy, so she needed to get arrested a few times. Again. Don't preach at me. Jane Fonda doesn't feel despair.

Hello, R203, I've worked and campaigned with Fonda. You can't possibly know what she feels any more than anyone but she can. How nice it must be to have omniscience. Or the delusion of it.

[quote] Fonda was horribly miscast in Julia. Barbra would have been much better in the role and would have won the Oscar. Fonda is technically the better actress, but Barbra has 10x more charisma onscreen. It's why she became a superstar and legend, and Fonda didn't.

Is this a joke?

[quote] Barbra is estimated to be worth $400 million, which all came from music and acting. Fonda is worth half that at $200 million, which mostly came from her workout videos in the 1980s. That makes it crystal clear how much more of a star and icon that Streisand is compared to boring Fonda.

JanBot, is that you?

You're amusing R204.

[quote] John Simon was a bitter, angry asshole and a bigot. He was loathed by many.

He was a fan of Jane Fonda.

He defends the above remarks by saying an actress needs to create a believable character. Hence his problem with Streisand was that she kept playing women irresistible to men, and it rang false.

It was deleted but a majority of readers thought Barbara was ugly. Just thought you should know.

I love Babs but the mack truck dropping dead made me laugh.

Roger Ebert on John Simon

[quote]Sorry but I don’t think a lot of straight men would want to jump on this

Why are you thinking like a straight man?

John Simon was always a cruel asshole snob. Karma got him when he dropped dead in a dinner theater.

As cruel as John Simon was he was always enjoyable to read much like Pauline Kael who also could be cruel but not to Simon's sadistic extent. And when he liked something or was writing about the arts he was a pleasure. Roger Ebert was unreadable. Not an interesting thing to say ever. A movie geek who struck a popular chord though I have no idea why. Just like his geeky cohort. Together they were like watching paint dry. Two average schleps pontificating as if they knew more than your next door neighbor.

I never knew John Simon dropped dead in a *dinner(* theater. Oh my sides!!!

John Simon dropping dead in a dinner theatre is like a nun dropping dead in church. I'm sure he wouldn't have had it any other way.

I have a soft spot for The Morning After. An '80s, L.A. Klute where instead of a call girl, Fonda is a washed-up alcoholic never-was actress. That Vera Miles line was a little mean, though.

R1, that kind of comment can work both ways.

Maybe it motivated her to go forward.

I came out to Hollywood and found success (but not wealth); my late mother (still getting used to saying that) called it a 'fool's errand.'

She was afraid I wouldn't succeed but at the end of her life, I had had some success that she couldn't deny and I was there for her unlike 'that closeted brother of yours' (her words).

Circling in on 60 soon...I can't imagine living past 80; the last 30 years have flown by, I expect the next 20 to do so.

barbs who???

I do believe that Barbra made Jane Fonda's career.

I had a very promising big screen career. I was the star of a hit sit-com and people in Hollywood banging down the door with offers of film roles in major films.

Barbra and Steven Spielberg conspired to destroy my acting career. Believe me she made Jane Fonda happen and destroyed me.

'I can't imagine living past 80.'

When I was a boy I couldn't imagine being an ancient 30. You'll probably live into your 90s.

'I can't imagine living past 80.'

When I was a boy I couldn't imagine being an ancient 30. You'll probably live into your 90s.

HOLLYWOOD icon Jane Fonda shockingly called Covid "God's gift to the left" after President Donald Trump was hit by the killer bug.

John Simon had the brownest teeth I ever saw. And not yellow, BROWN. I saw them myself from just a foot away. Very disgusting. Hardly one to be calling out other people on their appearance, which he frequently did.

Barbra turned down Cabaret before Liza took it on with Fosse, who wasn't attached at that point.

R211 - John Simon called out Roger Ebert in a blog post in 2011:

[quote] In The New York Times Book Review of September 25, Maureen Dowd reviewed Roger Ebert’s autobiographical “Life Itself.” The highly favorable notice contained the following: “Ebert tries to avoid gossip and ‘hurtful’ comments about actors. ‘I feel repugnance for the critic John Simon, who made it a specialty to attack the way actors look,’ he writes. ‘They can’t help how they look, any more than John Simon can help looking like a rat.’” Needless to say, in her laudatory review, Dowd does not take issue with this statement, so the burden falls on me. It is a foolish assertion of Ebert’s for any number of reasons.

John Simon hated the Star Wars films, of course, and people wondered why he even bothered to review them. Of course he was going to hate them no matter what.

He was of my grandparents' generation, and that generation had no interest in Star Wars and didn't understand it at all.

I'm amazed this thread hasn't been bombarded by the Trump cult screaming HANOI JANE.

Your grandparents knew that Star Wars was meant for children's Saturday morning matinees and was no more needing of understanding than a multi colored breakfast cereal like Fruit Loops.

Nope, r229. It's in the tradition of myths and fantasy. To look at it your way is very simplistic and uninformed.

[quote] John Simon had the brownest teeth I ever saw.

Why should a critic's physical appearance determine what moves you should see?

Here he is on the Dick Cavett show, defending his review of "Love Story".

'It's in the tradition of myths and fantasy.'

So was Flash Gordon but nobody at that time was going to make an epic out of it.

You really have no understanding r232.