Theatre Gossip #400 - The "What Do We Do About Audrey's Tits?" Edition

Not OP but being nice. Link to previous thread:

Thanks R1

Tits! When am I going to grow tits?

How has Aaron Tveit's perky little ass been holding up since quarantine? And for that matter, how are all of the hot men of broadway doing?

Wonder why Audrey never returned to the stage after winning the Tony in the 50s. She would have been a splendid Desiree.

Thank you, darlin' OP, for linking the new thread in the old one. It just never seems to happen with the Theatre Gossip threads.

[quote] Hal Prince was angry with CBS because of the way they promoted Something For Everyone. CBS cast album producer Goddard Lieberson said that Hal was so pissed off that he wouldn't let Columbia record Follies.

Right story, wrong reason. Prince wasn’t pissed about Something for Everyone, he was pissed at Columbia for how they (he thought) dropped the ball in promoting the Company album.

What’s with the rumor that Susan Stroman is directing a stage version of New York, New York?

Ugh. Why? No one loves Scorsese more than me, but that movie flat-out doesn’t work. The story and characters just aren’t interesting, let alone compelling.

Unless they’re just keeping that one song and building a brand new musical around it, I don’t see the point.

[quote]Wonder why Audrey never returned to the stage after winning the Tony in the 50s. She would have been a splendid Desiree.

Well, for many years after her Tony, she was busy doing one movie after another, though I guess she might have come back to Broadway after her film career finally started to die down. But also, I wonder if she had any problems projecting her voice in a theater? Judging by her films, it sounds like the kind of voice that might not have projected well.

A twee Desiree? No, thank you!

I always thought it was a shame that Lee Remick never got to play Desiree in that revival that was rumored in the late 80's.

Another great one would have been Natasha Richardson who did a reading of the show with her mother, Vanessa Redgrave. I assume they were supposed to originally star in the Trevor Nun revival. A shame. They were both wonderful on the bootleg recording.

Bare: A Pop Opera documentary.

Someone needs to revive Greenwillow for Charlie Carver

Nine burning questions about the 2020 Tony Awards:

WE SEE YOU WHITE MICHAEL YORK

Can any eldergay explain to me why Michael York was considered sexy in his day?

Watch Logans Run.

[quote]Can any eldergay explain to me why Michael York was considered sexy in his day?

He was blonde and he looked like he bathed regularly.

[quote]He was blonde and he looked like he bathed regularly.

And, gee, his hair smelled terrific.

Jesus, he's nothing. Why was he a gay icon?

He wasn't a gay icon. Simon MacCorkindale, now he was sexy.

[quote]Jesus, he's nothing. Why was he a gay icon?

Because he was in a movie with Liza, who was Judy Garland's daughter.

And he played gay or bisexual in a couple of movies.

He was neat.

He was in Zeffirelli's R&J, which everyone thought very sexy at the time.

Yes, but it was Leonard Whiting's naked ass that guys wanted. I'm practically sure Olivia Hussey probably did the same for our lesbian readers too.

And that other guy, who wrote WITHNAIL & I.

He was no Rita Tushingham.

This is either Mia Farrow or Ronan Farrow playing Peter Pan. Sorry, if the video quality was just a little bit better I could tell you which one it was.

And the article at R15 illustrates exactly why there should NOT be a Tony Awards this year. When you have to eliminate half your categories because of a dearth of potential nominees, what's the point?

Oh right, Slave Play.

[Quote] When you have to eliminate half your categories because of a dearth of potential nominees, what's the point?

The point is a fucking win, dear!

You're a cunt, Dot.

Not to mention what's the point in holding an event which is meant to advertise Broadway when Broadway is shut down? I've seen some suggest it's to bring attention to the plight of out of work actors - I don't think holding a self congratulatory awards show will bring all that much sympathy from people going through similar, or far worse, situations.

What if we convert the Tony dinner into Meals-on-Wheels?

R34 Are they going to Zoom in?

What R24 said. Michael York played gay characters on screen in major films at a time when almost no leading actors would dare play gay roles. The importance of that should not be understated. Of course he was a big gay icon of sorts. He played gay men with respect and dignity and a very open sexuality when many people in Hollywood considered us deep dark secrets. Most leading actors at that time, gay or straight, gave us nothing but a sneer. We owe him our thanks.

[quote]Oh right, Slave Play.

That's Tony Award Winning Slave Play to you, bub.

I totally agree with R9 about any stage version of NEW YORK, NEW YORK. The lead characters are underwritten and fundamentally unlikeable. I think it will end up being a brand new story about NYC in the post-war era and the title song. (And "The World Goes Round," which is also a great song.) I wonder if they'll use more of the Kander & Ebb catalogue.

I've never been a Stroman fan, so I fear the worst.

Is there a complete recording of PETER & THE STARCATCHER? Would love to see that.

They should make "New York, New York - The Musical" about the making of the movie. They could have a number about drugged up Liza and Marty wasting a day's filming because Liza decided she wanted ice cream.

Great thread title! Nicely done.

Are there any recordings of Carolee Carmello in the Hello Dolly tour that was abruptly ended? Was she good?

I wanted a shtrawberry shundae!!

Michael York was the Benedict Cumberbatch of his day.

Leonard Whiting's ass notwithstanding, Michael York was sexy as fuck in Romeo and Juliet.

Did anyone else hear the rumor that Mean Girls has some cockamamie plan to try to reopen in a new socially distanced staging with a whole new theater design as soon as Cuomo gives the ok? Heard from a very reliable source that plans are in motion for them to be “first”.

Agree, York was incredibly sexy. And was certainly meant to be in SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE, where he porked everyone but Despo.

Poor Despo!

ah thanks r47 I miss "porked" as a verb. One never hears that anymore. It's so vivid.

It's basically an over-designed kitchen sink A Star is Born, r39. Realistic in its depiction of their show business careers' trajectories. No ending with DeNiro walking into the ocean or over-dosing. And did I mention over-designed?

[quote]And did I mention over-designed?

It had Liza Minnelli in it. Of course it was going to be over-designed.

It was Theadora Van Runkle, so of course it was over-designed. Actually, looking back, this is the get-up that bothered me the most. Just a bit...too much.

I love listening to the NYNY soundtrack. Ralph Burns was a genius.

Stroman is directing a stage version of New York, New York? What could go wrong?

How many reviews will call it a valentine to the city? Or maybe a better way to put it is how many reviewer won’t?

Broadway Stars Reflect on the Theater Shutdown in New York City:

Many thanks to, I assume, our NT Live poster for The Last of the Hausmanns (previous thread, no. 498). I didn't think much of the play -- warmed-over Chekhov with swearing -- but the performances were good. (And, as nearly always with the NT, that set!) I haven't followed the entirety of Taron Egerton's career, but I didn't know he'd done stage work. (He was fine in an underwritten part, and kudos to the playwright and/or director for putting him a bathing suit for his first entrance.)

I guess Stro is trying to create new material for the Kander & Ebb estate? If Gershwin and Porter and Berlin can get jukebox musicals why not the next generation I guess; although those gents were writing songs not so specific to time and place during the heydey of the 20s and 30s.

The film contains only four songs credited to K&E - NY, NY, But the World Goes Round, There Goes the Ballgame (which I only remember from the soundtrack), and Happy Endings (cut from the film I think rightfully so... fun though it is to see Liza in a Arthur Freed style musical within a movie it's a pretty long spoof, World Goes 'Round is really the character's big starmaking moment). Some of the team's songbook could be retrofitted as big band tunes for the trumpeteer and gal singer by Glen Kelly and Doug Besterman, but I hope there is a very strong writer there to work with that book and expand what is really a two person story.

R57 Haussmanns was one of the mythical missing plays, so was funny when it finally escaped, and then wasn't that great. same with nation.

Agreed with R53: Ralph Burns' orchestrations for New York, New York are genius. Stroman could do a fantastic jitterbug/jazz number to his Opus No. 1 or a dream ballet to Bobby's Dream.

I could not figure how they could get together a list of shows for NTLive at Home without Rory Kinnear.

I thought there was some union rule or something that he had to be in 60% of the NTLive Broadcasts...

He's put on weight during the lockdown and won't consent to appear on camera.

His letter about his sisters death was powerful.

I thought Kinnear was physically miscast as Nick in Haussmanns (he's supposed to be a recovering heroin addict), but he plays gay very well. One bit of shtick of his in the first act made me laugh out loud.

And given the recent NT Live streamings, I'd say Oliver Chris is the new Rory Kinnear. He was in three of them -- One Man, Two Guvnors; Twelfth Night and Midsummer.

[quote]The film contains only four songs credited to K&E - NY, NY, But the World Goes Round, There Goes the Ballgame (which I only remember from the soundtrack), and Happy Endings (cut from the film I think rightfully so... fun though it is to see Liza in a Arthur Freed style musical within a movie it's a pretty long spoof, World Goes 'Round is really the character's big starmaking moment). Some of the team's songbook could be retrofitted as big band tunes for the trumpeteer and gal singer by Glen Kelly and Doug Besterman, but I hope there is a very strong writer there to work with that book and expand what is really a two person story.

And, of course, John Kander is still with us to write some new music for the show, even if just music with no lyrics for the band segments. Plus, maybe there are at at least a few melodies in his trunk that could be used for new songs with lyrics, or as band music in the show.

Oliver Chris is more of a second banana, no?

Here's "The World Goes Round" from New Yawk, New Yawk.

I'm not a Scorcese fan--increasingly less so--but I like the way he does very little with this until moving in and re-lighting Liza for the climax. Sometimes a good director needs to let a great song just.... be.

R64 And Young Marx.

R66 He has a certain charisma. And sexiness. And is a solid actor. And is hot.

Speaking of Kander and Ebb (who never get the love they should here, IMHO)... FUNNY LADY is a fairly terrible film, but there are a few great songs there, in case they're looking for additional K&E material.

Oliver Chris was funny and sexy as Oberon/Theseus in Midsummer, especially the end of Act One, which I won't spoil for anyone who hasn't seen it.

He was hot as distant fuck in Twelfth Night.

This evening:

The Dick Cavett Show

TONIGHT, 1 HR 1971

LUCILLE BALL, CAROL BURNETT, LUCIE ARNAZ, AND DR. FERDIE PACHECO • TALK

Lucille Ball, Carol Burnett, Lucie Arnaz and Dr. Ferdie Pacheco are interviewed in 1971...

That's already on YouTube.

R62, what are you referring to? Who are you referring to?

R69, "How Lucky Can You Get" would make a pretty great torch song for Miss Francine and "Let's Hear It for Me" maybe as Jimmy Doyle's want song.

How much physical domestic abuse is there between the couple? It's been ages since I've seen the movie but I remember De Niro and Liza doin' a lot of shoving and slapping each other back and forth, but I can't remember how serious or comedic it is... doesn't a fight induce Francine's labor?

Can a songwriter put their songs in any project? Or can other collaborators object, even if said collaborator(s) didn't write the song?

But I can watch it on my TV which is bigger than my monitor, r73.

I'm assuming they would be using the movie as a very loose template...

R62, these are rebroadcasts, not new productions.

Rory Kinear is in about half the ones I saw:

Threepenny Opera

Macbeth

Young Marx

Othello

Last of the Haussmans

Hamlet

Did I leave any out?

Is the David Tennant Hamlet available somewhere? I’d love to see that again.

National Theatre didn't write a role for Rory Kinnear in Follies? That's it, I'm cancelling my subscription!

Rory is not a Vera. He IS a Buddy.

"They were both wonderful on the bootleg recording."

Sorry, they were not.

Why do New York, New York? Why not go to the source and do the Doris Day story? Far more interesting and better music. And we could even work in Charlie Manson in an epilogue!

[Quote] do the Doris Day story? Far more interesting and better music. And we could even work in Charlie Manson in an epilogue!

Not to mention fucking Sly Stone!

One day it's kicks then it's kicks the shin is one of the worst lyrics ever.

To each her own, R85, but that wry, grim kind of comedy is/was Fred Ebb at his best. It's life for most of us, keenly observed.

[quote]Somebody loses, and somebody wins/And one day it's kicks/Then it's kicks in the shins/But the plant spins/And world goes round and round.

What kind of plant?

[quote]And one day it's kicks/Then it's kicks in the shins

That is the worst lyric Fred Ebb ever wrote. I remember hearing it when I saw the film on its original release and being shocked by how shoddy it was. And so exposed. Not hidden in the middle of some patter or the set up for something better. Just awful. Liza should have sent it back for more work.

Thanks for reminding me just how awful this movie was.

They've been slogging the idea of NYNY as a stage musical for years. Guess they finally found a team. Here's the problem: It's a shallow, dark story for the stage. Never going to work. And we all know Stroman's track record for new musicals. (Don't count "The Producers"; Okrent did all the dramaturgy before he died. ).

R88, it suits the period.

I didn’t realise there was so much love for this film. It seems like it’d been erased from Scorsese’s filmography.

R75, it’s pretty dark. Minnelli TOWERS over DeNiro, who is just a total charisma void in the film.

[Quote] It's a shallow, dark story for the stage.

Add an older couple.

Supposedly, NYNY is one of the all-time biggest coke movies. It’s rumored that everyone on the movie was snorting mountains of it. Second only to The Blues Brothers.

I can't say I love it or really even watch it anymore in its entirety, r92, but I do appreciate it.

What about if they add dark humor to it r90?

It just needs to be a splashy Valentine to NY...

Susan Stroman ruined everything she touched after "Crazy For You". Why would anyone put money into anything she's involved in?

She did well with Contact and Producers.

^

Not the Producers movie

[quote]That is the worst lyric Fred Ebb ever wrote.

Can you explain what you hate so much about "One day it's kicks, then it's kicks in the shins?" I don't think it's a great lyric, maybe not even a very good lyric, but certainly nowhere near as awful as you're making it out to be.

Apologies in advance because I know it was mentioned several threads back. However I never tried to access them before. The productions that are on the Google Drive as opposed to unlisted on YoutTube, what's the trick to getting them? I wanted the Hausmanns but every time I clicked on it, I got an error message and I know it's not the fault of the person who posted.

Thanks!

R80, the David Tennant Hamlet was put out on DVD, so it shouldn't be too hard to track down.

You have to turn off Link Preview under Settings, r103.

Thank you, R105. I appreciate it!

Agree that "One day it's kicks . . ." isn't a terrible lyric. In fact, I think it's quintessential Ebb.

One day it's Kicks: The Showgirl Musical

For R102, because s/he asked so nicely.

My disdain for that passage is entirely mine. It repulsed me the first time I heard it. The song went on to have a life of its own and every time the intro plays, I run because I know what's coming. That practically organic initial response remains.

Why? First of all, I submit that the theme of "The World Goes Round" is the same as the theme of "Ol' Man River." But "Ol' Man River" does it infinitely better. So, as soon as "The World Goes Round" establishes its theme, we know the song is an also-ran and a rehash of what has already been done better. If writers dare to take on that theme, covered perfectly by Kern and Hammerstein, they must bring their best work to the job. "The World Goes Round" is not in the same league as anything Kander and Ebb wrote for Cabaret. If it were the best song in the world, except for that business about "kicks in the shins," maybe we could forgive it.

"...kicks in the shins..." is also very, very exposed. Every single one of life's adversities ticked off in the song are bigger and weightier matters than a kick in the shin. So, just as the song moves to its peak, we get the smallest and most inconsequential thing that can happen to you. It is a terrible conclusion to this list the writers established. A kick in the shin? Who cares? It's not tragic. It's not adversity. There's no soul crushing Ambler and Ambler to be found in it. Kander and Ebb sacrificed everything for a glib rhyme, when they should have worked harder and longer and gotten it right. (The business that follows.. "and round and round and round and round," etc., suggests that before they were finished, they were no longer interested in this song.) It comes in the last moment before the song releases musically and restates its theme, lyrically. But it's the most pedestrian thing mentioned in the whole song. Maybe, just maybe, if it had come first, we could see it as laying the foundation for something bigger to come later. But a kick in the shin in no way, not ever, compares to pact we have with the gods that, come what may, life continues. Liza is a very good actress. If the writers missed this, she should have felt it instinctively. Scorsese should have, too. Maybe they really were all of them doing too much coke.

To get really picky, the phrase is most commonly, "a kick in the shin." Fred Ebb had to fiddle with the phrase even to be able to use it poorly in his song. In its altered plural state, its awkward even excised from the body of the song.

There you have it, R102. As per your request. Every time Liza Minnelli sings this song, she gives it her all. And, as brilliant as they have been at other moments in their careers, I just do not believe that Kander and Ebb gave it their all with this song. If nothing else, Liza deserved better than that shitty 'kicks in the shins' business.

I am *this...close* to kicking you in the shins, r109.

Calm down, R110. The person asked for an explanation and it was delivered.

R110, I think the "kicks in the shin" is not meant to be taken literally. It is not intended to sound as if that would be greater than the previously listed adversities,, but the lyric simply makes the (perhaps reiterative) point that sometimes you're on top of the world and others you get a raw deal . . . but the world goes 'round.

I meant R109, not R110 above.

Not shin. Shins. Rhymes with spins.

Despite himself, R113 sees the problem and moved to correct it, even in his defense of it.

Everybody can just eat shin!!!

Have you ever been kicked in the shins? It's quite a sharp pain. If it was "kicks in the balls/cooter" would you like the line better?

It’s. A. Metaphor. 🙄

It's also a lousy line.

This is also a lousy topic.

I am so tired of parsing this song lyric....can someone talk about Follies?

"The Producers" is a lousy musical. If it weren't for Nathan and Matthew, it would have only run a few months. Yeah, yeah, I know, "it ran for years", blah, blah, blah, but there is nothing in there that wasn't done as well in the original film. It's dreck.

Careful, R120, R109 will give us a dissertation on Beebe's bathysphere.

As someone who's been repeatedly kicked in the shins, let me assure you, it’s no picnic.

Shins is no vagina bone.

[quote]The productions that are on the Google Drive as opposed to unlisted on YoutTube, what's the trick to getting them?

r103, here's what you do. First in DataLounge, you must go to "Settings" and uncheck the "Show Link Previews" box. Then click the link to take you to Google Docs.

I have never been able to download any of those files in any other browser than Google Chrome. I would keep getting an error message. Once I started using Google Chrome, all I had to do was hit the down arrow up in the corner and it would immediately start downloading.

I hope this helps.

[quote] This is also a lousy topic.

Fine, the next thread will talk about Ethel Merman‘s tits. At least those were bigger.

R122 I would sure appreciate one, because I've never understood that lyric. I know, I know! I should do my own research! Sigh.

R75 yep, you remember the plot points very well. I was so confused by this movie's tone because Liza was channeling Judy Garland at the start and it seemed like it would be interesting, but then we have her man driving a car and trying to slap and punch her in the backseat while she's pregnant. I couldn't believe that. Maybe that's the kind of thing that used to happen frequently but it shocked the hell out of me and took me out of the movie completely. And if I remember correctly there was another scene later on where they both go to a club but she's there with some guy who's a producer or maybe her new boyfriend or something, and DeNiro gets so jealous he starts a fight with the guy and they all have to leave.

I could not understand for the life of me why the Liza character continued to associate with this deadbeat guy, and he had no charm about him at all. He was just kind of soulless. The film would have been much more palatable if they'd humanized him a little more, but instead they just showed him beating her into labor in the backseat of a car and then popping up at the hospital with flowers. I guess that may be true to life but it's hella bleak in a movie that's supposed to be a showy Liza musical.

R127, I googled it for you....

R127: She gets off easy compared to Nancy in [italic]Oliver![/italic]

Ann Miller's husband threw pregnant Ann down the stairs, breaking her back. The child died.

[quote]I guess that may be true to life but it's hella bleak in a movie that's supposed to be a showy Liza musical.

Actually, it was sort of a continuation of Sally Bowles. When Liza's character is in the hospital, they could have had her sing"Maybe This Time" and nobody would have thought it out of place.

Everyone remembers Cabaret as a showy Liza musical, but it has it's dark, bleak moments.

Liza Minnelli didn't establish enough of a movie career for "a showy Liza musical" to even be a thing...

It certainly better have dark, bleak moments r131.

So...speaking of kicks...I'm reminded of Miss Ann-Margret. Years ago I read an interview she did before she opened at Radio City Music Hall. The interviewer asked her, "Why *now*, Ann-Margret?" and her reply was "I wanted to do it while I could still kick." Well, I said to my old and dear friend Dan, "Uh, she really isn't a kicker is she?". Dan said "No, she's a shimmier, not a kicker."

So I recently watched Viva Las Vegas in its entirety and I have to tell you, she shimmied and she strutted, but she didn't really...kick. Love the girl, I do. She expertly executed some intricate Onna White choreography in Birdie and I would definitely consider her a dancer. *But*...she's not a kicker.

"Lot's of Livin' to Do" has kicks. Not high kicks, but kicks.

If Ann-Margaret tried to kick, gravity would pull on those big tits and knock her flat on her back. She's too top heavy to be a kicker.

Girls! Girls! I am woman enough for all of you.

Joey didn't lack for tits OR high kicks.

Amy Adams has joined the Dear Evan Hansen movie. They haven't announced him yet, but are they really going to cast Ben Platt? He looks 30 in some scenes in The Politician, and the skinnier he gets the older he looks.

You know how if you say one word over and over and over it loses all meaning? I have no idea what 'kicks' means any longer?

Well, r135, there are kicks and there are...*kicks*!

[quote]I think the "kicks in the shin" is not meant to be taken literally. It is not intended to sound as if that would be greater than the previously listed adversities,, but the lyric simply makes the (perhaps reiterative) point that sometimes you're on top of the world and others you get a raw deal . . . but the world goes 'round.

Exactly, it's a metaphor.

R109, thanks for your explanation (honestly). I understand your points, even if I don't agree with them. But I must say, I really don't get that you hate "The World Goes 'Round" partly because you think it has the same basic idea/theme of "Ol' Man River" but is of far lesser quality as a song. First of all, the Kander & Ebb song is written in a completely different style, so even if the theme were the same, that would be reason enough not to compare it to "Ol' Man River," of all songs. But also, I don't agree that the themes of the two songs are as similar as you think. "Ol' Man River," is only about adversity, and makes reference to the fact that the river "keeps rolling along" because it doesn't care about the misery of the people on shore, whereas "The World Goes 'Round" is about how there are great sorrows in life but also great joys, and there's going to be lots of both in everyone's lives. That's really not the same point.

Dear sweet Angie/r141, that's not a kick. You had to hold on to the counter to achieve it.

Kisses,

R143, the picture of Angela Lansbury is her stretching before the performance. This picture shows her high kicking in MAME.

Oh for crying out loud, The World Goes Round was Liza's Man That Got Away and Happy Endings was her Born in a Trunk sequence. I'm assuming her bangs were Meet Me in St. Louis.

[quote]Everyone remembers Cabaret as a showy Liza musical, but it has it's dark, bleak moments.

It has it's dark, bleak "moments????" Despite (of course) lots of humor as well, at least in the first part, it's one of the darkest musicals ever made.

Sorry, I should have corrected the other poster: "its dark, bleak moments."

What is the darkest musical ever made?

Sweeney Todd

Assassins

[quote]What is the darkest musical ever made?

Cabin In the Sky

My kicks are legendary.

[quote]What is the darkest musical ever made?

I'm not sure if you expected a real answer, but the darkest musical I've ever seen was probably the musical version of THE ADDING MACHINE that played Off-Broadway some years ago. The score is brilliant and the show is very powerful, but like the play, the musical is extremely dark and bleak.

Dancer in the Dark if we're counting movies

The Wild Party...dark.

Michael John LaChiusa & George C. Wolfe’s The Wild Party make Lippa’s anachronistic trash look like Hello, Dolly! That said, MJL’s Marie Christine is even darker and bleaker. That wins the prize in my book.

The Wiz. At least until high schools began doing it.

The House of Blue Leaves - finally, a decent copy.

The Andersonville Trial with Shatner.

Buyer and Cellar - the lockdown version.

blech. lock it out.

Barber Shop Chronicles anyone?????

R162 I shall finally watch it and if I like will happily post. I adored Small Island so have high hopes for it.

R153, Phyllis Diller starred in a film version of "The Adding Machine" in 1969.

[quote] Amy Adams has joined the Dear Evan Hansen movie.

I’m really sorry they’re not letting Rachel Bay Jones recreate her role.

R163, I think if you liked Small Island you will hate Barber Shop Chronicles.

I thought Small Island was pretty awful.

R139 He certainly thinks he's got the part going by this article. Also:

[quote]My father and I have avoided working too closely together for a long time because I wanted to establish myself on my own.

Funny that he had to qualify that with "too closely". So for all those claiming he got his parts due to merit and not his father calling in favours...

Stroman's shows since The Producers:

Thou Shalt Not

The Frogs

Young Frankenstein

Happiness

The Scottsboro Boys

Paradise Found

Big Fish

Bullets Over Broadway

Little Dancer (now known as Marie: Dancing Still)

The Last Two People On Earth

Prince Of Broadway

Dot

Beast In The Jungle

And I guess we should mention that Kung Fu Panda musical that never happened.

She has a Jerry Zaks' ability to retain a reputation as a hit maker, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Except that Zaks had a big hit with Dolly!

Jerry Zaks can still turn out a hit. Hello Dolly, for one.

Here's a question. There have been big coffee-table book tributes to the complete lyrics of Mercer, Hart, Gershwin, Porter, Sondheim, etc. Does Ebb deserve one?

More than some of the people who have actually gotten them, R171.

Stroman's work on The Scottsboro Boys was actually pretty great.

R165 Amy Adams is actually playing the other mother in Dear Evan H. Though unfortunately I still doubt Rachel Bay Jones will get a chance to recreate her stage role for the movie, unless they surprisingly give it to her via her Tony winning status.

What was Zaks' last hit that wasn't a revival of an old chestnut?

Abie's Irish Rose.

Must have been the original production.

r174

Yes they always do that

R178 Hence, the words "doubt" and "surprisingly."

[quote][R165] Amy Adams is actually playing the other mother in Dear Evan H. Though unfortunately I still doubt Rachel Bay Jones will get a chance to recreate her stage role for the movie, unless they surprisingly give it to her via her Tony winning status.

[quote] Yes they always do that —Love Angie, Carol, Glynis et al

For the men, they do more often.

Thou Shalt Not would still be running today...

Why doesn't Daddy buy roles for the other Platt son?

[quote]What was Zaks' last hit that wasn't a revival of an old chestnut?

Smokey Joe's Cafe (which was a jukebox musical), Six Degrees of Separation and The House of Blue Leaves (which was a forgotten off-off-Broadway farce).

Susan Stroman’s masterpiece is The Scottsboro Boys.

So good they protested it off of Broadway for giving the competition a bad name.

R183 The original House of Blue Leaves was off-Broadway, not off-off, ran over a year and was hardly forgotten. It also won the Drama Critic Circle & Obie Awards for best play and was a big hit for actress Katherine Helmond.

It was off-Broadway (for 337 performances) and hardly forgotten, r183. Also it was more absurd than farce.

Did "House of Blue Leaves" cross the pond and did Honor Blackman play Helmond's part?

Addams Family ran a while. Zaks was the director of record on that, wasn’t he?

"That is the worst lyric Fred Ebb ever wrote."

No, it is not. That would be reserved for:

"Home-made bread lies here like lead,/And Polly's peach preserves--.Oh, please, my nerves!"

"The score is brilliant and the show is very powerful"

Oh, please, my nerves!

Such headaches over BUT THE WORLD GOES ROUND. It's a simple list song of being up and down thru life and riding it out. For sure it ain't no OLD MAN RIVER which is a statement of resigned protest.

[quote]The original House of Blue Leaves was off-Broadway, not off-off

Fun fact: the theater where The House of Blue Leaves premiered was owned by Bruce Mailman who also owned Saint Marks Baths and The Saint club.

In the original cast, in addition to Helmond and Meara, was Harold Gould (Miles on The Golden Girls) as Artie and Frank Converse as the movie producer. I wonder if Gould and Converse got free passes to the Baths or The Saint?

A pre-union of two [italic]Soap[/italic] stars with Helmond and Gould.

Amy Adams is warming herself up to play Sally in FOLLIES!

Also in the off-Bway House of Blue Leaves replacement cast, as well as the LA production - Georgia Engel. First as the Little Nun, then as Corinna Stroller.

The menthol-cool vocal stylings of Miss Stephanie Vanderkellen at 18:15....

Coming to Bway... sometime... NEW YORK, NEW YORK! The new musical so nice they named it twice.

Lea Michele as Francine! Darren Criss as Jimmy! It's gonna be the most GLEE-FUL night on the Great White Way.

One day it's kicks... then it's MULTIPLE TONY NODS!

I'm sure there are people who would pay out the nose to watch Lea get slugged on stage.

Like the chandelier or helicopter, r197!

New York, New York was never intended to be a big, splashy Liza Minnelli musical. It was always a dark piece but when Liza was cast, the role was expanded. Still, it's a drama with music, not a musical.

Scorsese's style was to encourage improvisation during filming. When the dailies started coming in, Liza was wiping De Niro off the screen, to the astonishment of both De Niro and Scorsese. De Niro had to step up his game.

As to whether Liza was deliberately imitating her mother, she wasn't. There was a lot of controversy about it when the film came out and Scorsese was asked in an interview whether he had directed her to play Judy. His famous reply was "What can I tell you? You put a wig on her and she looks like her mother."

'Somebody loses, and somebody wins/And one day it's kicks/Then it's kicks in the shins/But the plant spins/And world goes round and round.'

Sorry that's pretty bad. 3rd rate Porter or Sondheim.

As in 'Everybody's flip or flipping.' which is excellent. Yes I realize it was written after but Sondheim had to show Ebb how it's done.

Who's been kicking our mama and papa?

And a lot of But the World goes wrong is good Sometimes your dreams get broken in pieces but that doesn't matter at all/take it from me, there's still gonna be a summer, a winter, a spring and a fall. But the deliberate wins/shins/spins is terrible.

[quote]A pre-union of two Soap stars with Helmond and Gould.

And a pre-union of "Rhoda" stars Meara and Gould.

The House of Blue Leaves was a legacy project.

Anne Meara in the original production. Ben Stiller played the son in the Lincoln Center revival and then Artie in the second revival.

[quote]Georgia Engel. First as the Little Nun, then as Corinna Stroller.

I can see her as the Little Nun, but not as Corinna Stroller. She probably played Corinna Stroller in a Marilyn Monroe type, whispery voice and wide eyed innocence. I like what Julie Hagerty did with the character.

R205 I saw Georgia Engel go on as Corinna Stroller in NY. I'm pretty sure she was the understudy at the time. She didn't do any Marilyn Monroe whispery voice, but used her normal slightly baby Georgette-on-MTM voice and indeed did play it with wide eyed innocence. This was about 150 years ago and I still remember being struck by how original and hilarious she was.

Engel was an understudy AFTER the MTM show?

I believe r206 is referring to the original 1971 production, r207. Hagerty's Broadway replacements were Patricia Clarkson and Faye Grant.

Faye Grant from V?

R207 No, this was back in 1971 or 72 BEFORE she was on the MTM Show. I believe it was when she went out to LA with Blue Leaves that lead to her getting the part of Georgette. When I refer to her "Georgette-on-MTM" voice, I meant it was the voice that we all got to know in the ensuing years.

Don't know if this link has been posted before, Hedda Gabler starring Ingrid Bergman filmed for tv in 1963.

The World Goes ‘Round is clearly rendered in The Man That Got Away fashion. It’s pretty good, and the shins business is fine.

The worst Fred Ebb lyric is:

THERE ARE BIG BUSTED WOMEN OVER THE WALL

Crap.

Am I alone in thinking THE HOUSE OF BLUE LEAVES (like so much of John Guare) is not really a great or important play? It's fun and entertaining, but... not a lot more.

I really like SIX DEGREES, even if I find it morally problematic. But I don't really understand why many put Guare in the pantheon of great American playwrights.

Zaks is like Stroman in that where he was once thought of as a director who could do no wrong, he went through a long list of flops. After his successful revival of Forum, he directed:

The Civil War-FLOP

Epic Proportions-FLOP

Swing!-FLOP

45 Seconds From Broadway-FLOP

Capeman-FLOP

Little Shop Of Horrors Revival-FLOP

La Cage aux Folles Revival-FLOP

101 Dalmations-FLOP

The Caine Mutiny Court Martial-FLOP

Losing Louie-FLOP

Bronx Tale--FLOP (although it ran a season)

Addams Family-FLOP

Sister Act-FLOP

Hello Dolly!-HIT

Meteor Shower-Probably earned back it's investment, but terribly received. ------------------

He wasn't the director of record for Capeman and Addams family, but he in fact directed these.

I'm not sure about the revival of The Man Who Came To Dinner that Nathan Lane starred in.

As for Mrs. Doubtfire...Did anyone see it?

WE SEE YOU WHITE SHINS!

But how many of those shows have had successful lives after floppage. "Sister Act" has certainly had a life after Broadway. Ditto "Addams Family."

[quote]As for Mrs. Doubtfire...Did anyone see it?

Broadway theaters were closed three days after it began previews in New York

R214 - that taped performance of House of Blue Leaves is my first exposure to the play. I couldn't get past the first 20 minutes. It felt so dated and stilted.

[quote]Broadway theaters were closed three days after it began previews in New York

So this is how musical theatre dies: to thunderous indifference.

[quote]Faye Grant from V?

Yes. Also from being a vicious cunt who tried to destroy my life.

Wasn't Zaks brought in very late on Addams Family and couldn't make major changes until the national tour? If I remember correctly, the tour version is the licensed version and considered better than the original, though that's not saying much.

Georgia Engel was Minnie Fay in Merman's Dolly company and judging by the audio boots, she was quite charming.

Surprising that Adams would agree to play the second lead - it does make you wonder (along with the delay) who's playing the mom

Which pretty much was Georgia's actual voice, r210. I've linked that before, r211. I've never watched the whole thing, because I find Hedda to be a bit of a pill. I watched enough to get a sense of Ingrid's performance and she's able to at least bring her luminescent quality to the role. Plus...she's Swedish.

yes r222 the show was fully built and had run in Chicago before Zaks so there wasn't much he could do but rearrange things and work on some comedy. They made some design changes (like the ancestors all being ghosts in white) and moved the snap-snap theme to the top of the show but the real rewriting happened for the tour. He also had to manage a toxic Nathan-Neuwirth relationship.

Something for Everyone / Michael York Angela Lansbury

Angela looks great in Something For Everyone, and I love Michael York’s tight shorts, but Prince’s direction is only nominally better than his awful work on A Little Night Music.

Indeed. Film direction was not in Mr. Prince's wheelhouse.

Egads. Searching for something mindless to watch. This looked like it would fit the bill. Couldn't get through five minutes of it.

Crazy Mama

TODAY, 1 HR 50 MIN 1975 PG

Melodrama covering 30 years in the criminal lives of an Arkansas family. Cloris Leachman, Stuart Whitman. Sheba: Ann Sothern. Albertson: Jim Backus. Shawn: Donny Most. Cheryl: Linda Purl. Snake: Bryan Englund. Sheba (1932): Tisha Sterling. Bertha: Merie Earle. Ella...

Ohhhh. I just noticed the second chorus girl from the left fucks up the choreography during Poppa, Won't You Dance With Me around 5:10. I have too much time on my hands.

[quote]'Somebody loses, and somebody wins/And one day it's kicks/Then it's kicks in the shins/But the planet spins/And world goes round and round.'

Actually, if I had to find fault with these lyrics, it would be that "the planet spins, and the world goes round and round" is redundant. What's the problem with the triple rhyme?

[quote]I don't really understand why many put Guare in the pantheon of great American playwrights.

Of course it depends on who you talk to, but I really don't think "many" would rate Guare's work that highly. Especially not today, after the play that's considered one of his best flopped big-time in revival on Broadway. And it flopped not just because it wasn't a very good production, but because it now seems very dated, not to mention terribly homophobic. However you feel about his plays, they have not dated well, like Wendy Wasserstein's.

[quote]Angela looks great in Something For Everyone, and I love Michael York’s tight shorts, but Prince’s direction is only nominally better than his awful work on A Little Night Music.

Can you try to define what you don't like about Prince's direction of "Something for Everyone?" I think it's just fine, and perfectly suits the tone of the writing. Also, it really helps that the movie is so well cast, and Prince of course deserves a lot of credit for that.

Wasn't Dolly really just a success because of Middler? And from what I can see on youtube it's just based on a million past revivals.

[quote]Actually, if I had to find fault with these lyrics, it would be that "the planet spins, and the world goes round and round" is redundant.

There is a slight difference. I see it that the planet is an inanimate object, it just spins without knowing it is spinning. The world involves people whose lives are going round and round.

It's like a carousel. The horses spin but have no understanding that they are spinning. The people riding the horses go round and round and realize they are going round and round.

Has anyone seen that Pride & Prejudice musical on Amazon Prime? Is Paul Gordon, in actuality, Frank Wildhorn’s considerably less talented bastard child?

KICK

For absolutely no reason...

What was Zaks' last hit that wasn't a revival of an old chestnut?

Everybody Loves Raymond

[quote] Is Paul Gordon, in actuality, Frank Wildhorn’s considerably less talented bastard child?

Less talented than Wildhorn? I don't agree with that. I think Gordon is more talented as a composer, though his work is still problematic.

[quote]Wasn't Dolly really just a success because of Midler?

Mostly because of her, anyway. I actually think Zaks' direction was a detriment to that production, because he apparently insisted on throwing in some very broad, annoying comic business -- or supposedly comic business. Not so much from Midler, who I imagine was pretty much allowed to do her own thing, but from the other actors.

Has Zaks ever directed "Annie"?

Never thought I'd live to see an exegesis of a Fred Ebb lyric in a public forum.

We don't only do FOLLIES.

Would that THAT were only true, R241...

R212 Well, Fred Ebb was just making it clear that Audrey Hepburn wasn't over the wall!

Is that big busted line a reference to posters (e.g. Raquel Welch in The Shawshank Redemption)?

Hamlet with David Tennant - Act One.

Hamlet with Tennant - Act Two.

I made a thread for further discussion of terrible lyrics

I ust noticed that [italic]Something for Everyone[/italic]'s script is by [italic]Sweeney[/italic]'s Hugh Wheeler (nine years before [italic]Sweeney[/italic]) and the music is by John Kander.

And I still hate r231 for the way she posts multiple topics annotated by her pronouncements.

Don't be silly, r248

R248 Wow, you've sure got your priorities in order.

[quote] He also had to manage a toxic Nathan-Neuwirth relationship

Oh, let’s hear more! I remember hearing it was a troubled company, but didn’t know specifics.

Bebe made me buy her husband's art.

Wait: Bebe has a husband??

Nah.

She's had two (at least).

I don't see Bebe putting up with Nathan's shit for long. Was he still drinking on that show?

I just can't imagine Bebe with another human. Who were/are they?

Bebe and her second and current husband were married by Peter Coyote.

interesting. anyone know who performed Sondheim's marriage ceeremony?

International Mister Leather 1997.

That's very funny, r259.

The obliging shop-bottom from Nasty Pig.

Sally Kirkland and/or Jane Wiedlin.

raucous laughter. oh, STAAP, you're KILLING me.

ServPro Basement cleaning services

r263 = audience member at BOUNCE.

How have the liquor stores of New York City been holding up since the death of Elaine Stritch?

Wha...wha...

^ The Met version was well designed.

And had Paolo Szot

Once Covid is over, this looks like a nice place to stay for our vacation in New York City.

Milford-Shmilford, r270. Make it the *Waldorf*!

R251 Echoing this, also what was the story with Wesley Taylor during that run?

When I lived in Manhattan in the '80s, I served on a jury in a criminal case. We were sequestered, and the court put us up at the Milford Plaza. Believe me, it was nothing like what I imagined from that oft-played TV commercial.

[quote][R251] Echoing this, also what was the story with Wesley Taylor during that run?

In order to get audience reaction, he kept broadening his performance and pissing Nathan Lane off.

[quote]When I lived in Manhattan in the '80s, I served on a jury in a criminal case. We were sequestered, and the court put us up at the Milford Plaza. Believe me, it was nothing like what I imagined from that oft-played TV commercial.

There's a reason why it was called The Mildew Plaza. I stayed there one weekend because it was one of the cheaper hotels in NYC. It wasn't terrible, it just wasn't great. Tiny room, clean but very worn out. I really only needed it for bed and shower because the rest of the time I was seeing shows or just running around NYC.

The main things I remember about it was wallpaper that could have induced an epileptic seizure. Well, that and having an armed guard outside the room, but I guess that goes with being a sequestered juror.

[quote]And I still hate [R231] for the way she posts multiple topics annotated by her pronouncements.

R248: The feeling is mutual. And I'm certainly not going to stop replying to a few different posts in the same response if you're not going to bother to explain what you think is wrong with that. In fact, I would keep doing so if only to annoy the shit out of you.

Thanks R274. I suppose you have to admire his nerve to do something like that whilst working with Nathan Lane and Bebe Neuwirth. Speaking of Wes, he and Alex Wyse got signed to ICM as writers off the back of their web series. Apparently they have a play, film and series in development.

Hopefully Wes doesn't cast himself in anything approaching a lead/everyman role. Adam Chanler Berat should have played Wes' role in that webseries.

I think one of the things that Wesley Taylor did was that he had an exit, and he just kept making it longer and longer and longer which pissed off Nathan Lane, because in a Nathan Lane show only Nathan Lane can ad lib and get laughs that weren't rehearsed.

Are Wes and Isaac still together?

Did Sarah Schulman have a right to complain that Rent was partially based on her book "People in Trouble" or was she milking the cultural zeitgeist that was Rent? (I've never read her book).

I didn't read "People in Trouble," R282, but Schulman wrote a non-fiction book about her case against the RENT producers and the Larson estate. She makes a very convincing argument that Jonathan Larson read "People" and was heavily influenced by it, particularly the parts about ACT UP and AIDs patients (about which Larson knew little, apparently.) He borrowed from "People" in ways that Schulman is able to pinpoint: characters, sub-plots, details. It may have been unconscious on his part, but it happened.

The RENT producers/estate were also sued by a dramaturg who worked on the show (her name escapes me). Her lawsuit was thrown out for lack of evidence. I think it also ended her career in NYC as a result (no surprise).

Here's some of Schulman's POV.

I respect Schulman as a queer writer. She's fearless. She was one of the only people to state that ANGELS IN AMERICA was not an accurate depiction of either queer life in NYC in that era and especially, of queer men living with AIDs. And while it's an unpopular opinion, I completely agree.

[quote]Dramaturg Lynn Thomson has filed suit against the estate of Jonathan Larson, claiming she was underpaid for her doctoring and advice that helped turn Rent into a hit.

R284, I already read every bit of that word salad I need to read when I saw that anti-gay hate speech pasted all over it.

Something For Everyone is a pretty good movie. Hal Prince isn't exactly a master stylist on film, but he did a fine job with that movie. It's well paced and moves well and, as others have noted, it's very well cast. Most directors will tell you that about 80-90% of good directing is casting correctly. However, A Little Night Music is awful. It's so dreary except when Diana Rigg shows up.

The Dolly revival was finely directed and, no, it probably wouldn't have done as well without Midler, but the audiences ate it up. Peters was even better in the role later on and I'm sad it didn't run for longer, allowing many great women to step into the role like the original production did.

In my straight days, I took my gf to the Milford Plaza and the long gone Taft Hotel to drink champagne in bed and make sweet, sweet love all day. Thinking back on those days, I must confess, it was pretty frickin' great.

It was disappointing that none of the Dollys were in great voice. (Donna Murphy's pitch problems put her out of the race, for me.) At least Imelda will be solid in that department.

"ANGELS IN AMERICA was not an accurate depiction of either queer life in NYC in that era and especially, of queer men living with AIDs.:

Because it was a fictionalized drama, not a documentary. The play may have its flaws, but not because it's a TV Movie of the Week.

Lansbury has a GREAT monologue in Something For Everyone which she delivers brilliantly, all of it filmed in a single tracking shot, if memory serves.

Not only were Bette and Bernadette not in great voice but they weren't up to the energy demands the show requires and that made for very effortful performances.

R291 Not true. Bette was not in great voice, but she was exciting and fun with great energy, as she can be at her best. The audience was literally (and yes, I mean literally) screaming with delight.

Bernadette sounded fine to me throughout and gave a very effortlessly funny, human and moving performance.

R292, none of that happened when I saw them in the show. Except for the audience screaming because, in recent years, audiences scream at everything good, bad, or indifferent.

I was there. I heard them for myself. The energy felt more like a rock concert then a Broadway show.

R282, very much so. I you read People in Trouble you will finally understand the plot in act 2. (Can anyone make sense of the ATM scam if you have not read the novel?)

What is interesting about her book is she does not want money or even credit for what her book added to Rent. Rather, she explores what Rent says about how straight audiences (and writers) see queer lives.

She had noted that if a film were made of her book People in Trouble, that they would make her main character (who leaves her boyfriend for another woman) into a secondary character and focus on the boyfriend---which is what Rent did. Rent makes a show of being about queer and marginalized people, but really puts straight folk at the center of the story.

I have not read it in years, but her book is surprisingly thoughtful and insightful. Schulman herself is a pain in the ass, so I did not expect to enjoy this book length as much as I did. (I paid 49 cents for it in a used bookstore bin.)

Please. Listen to the videos on YouTube. Midler's singing sounded like shit.

[quote]Midler's singing sounded like shit.

You obviously didn't hear Carol Channing in the last Broadway revival. She was supposed to tour the world with that production, but I think the world heard a bootleg and demanded that the US keep her in America.

Is Imelda Marcos doing Dolly? What on earth will be the budget for the shoes?

Neither Bette nor Bernadette was up to the task. They were both too old. Broadway audiences scream like they are at a game show -- it has nothing to do with the quality of the show or the performances.

Even in her last revival, Channing still had the energy and the drive needed for the show.

Sheridan Smith will be the next to revive Dolly in London after Imelda.

[quote] Here's some of Schulman's POV.

Thanks for the article. I have another question. Schulman says she joined Act-Up. I was under the impression that lesbians had a hard time being included in organizations like that. Or was it Gay Men's Health Crisis? Larry Kramer documents a bit of the difficulty in The Normal Heart. Was it true that lesbians had a hard time in those organizations?

[quote]Dramaturg Lynn Thomson has filed suit against the estate of Jonathan Larson, claiming she was underpaid for her doctoring and advice that helped turn Rent into a hit.

This reminds me of that joke about how you can't know you're a success in a show business until somebody sues you.

I have my doubts that Jonathan Larsen was totally straight. He knew the East Village scene very well, drugs and sex. I think he dabbled in both.

Midler sounded lousy, but Peters sounded fine. Slightly raspy when I saw her, but she was hitting and sustaining notes Midler didn't even bother with. Both were very funny and had excellent energy when I saw them, but I think Peters gave the best all around performance.

I shudder to think of the ways that Imelda Staunton will turn Dolly into a psychopathic, shrieking harridan like she did to Rose and Sally. I'm assuming she probably did the same with Mrs. Lovett.

Assume and you make...

R303 Those around him always seemed very quick to point out he wasn't gay, almost like they considered people thinking him gay an insult or something.

R297, please try to understand that Carol Channing's singing, good or ill, has absolutely nothing to do with Bette Midler's singing. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

With DL fave Marin Mazzie.

Well, she sounded better than Julie Andrews would in V/V.

I think it's interesting how RENT's reputation has basically disintegrated over the years. People loved it so much in the beginning but don't think so highly of it now.

I too agree that it did not age well at all, though still feel it has some beautiful ballads in its score.

[quote] I think it's interesting how RENT's reputation has basically disintegrated over the years. People loved it so much in the beginning but don't think so highly of it now.

[italic]Hamilton[/italic], this is your future.

Was London the only place they tried the reorchestrated version?

R301, I do not know what you are talking about. I do not know if it was 50-50 men an women, but most of the members I knew were lesbians.

I remember thinking how before Act Up, gay men and lesbians rarely worked together. But Act Up changed that.

[quote]I think it's interesting how RENT's reputation has basically disintegrated over the years.

I was there when Rent first debuted. It was exciting for young people. It affected me because I was in the same situation as the characters on stage. I was living in NYC and thinking, "How am I gonna pay my rent?" It was an exciting musical because there was just a lot of junk on Broadway at that time and this was new.

After I matured, I took a look at Rent again. Something I hadn't realized at the time, is that it's poorly staged. Everyone comes downstage and screams their music at the audience.

I remember one guy at one of the performances I saw turning to his partner and saying, "Why can't they just get fucking jobs?" At the time I thought it was insulting because people like me were scrambling and trying to find work and being at the end of the baby boom generation was difficult because those fuckers wouldn't give up and retire. I was slowly beginning to realize that everyone had a college degree and mine was pretty worthless.

I look at Rent now and I think some of it is just crap. But there are some nice moments in the show. The theme "forget regret or life is yours to miss" still rings true with me. And the "came to say goodbye love" section still chokes me up.

While I think that Maureen's performance art pretty much mirrors some of the shit that was going on in the East Village, it's still hard to sit through.

And I feel that the second act just kind of wanders without a lot of focus. Part of the musical is about youthful rebellion and trying to find your place in life, but that idea begins to fade out and never really comes to a solid conclusion.

I get that Larsen was also shadowing La Boheme, but I really think that he should have thought up something besides HIV for Roger and Mimi. I sort of get Schulman's point with this. Let's give the straight couple AIDS and push any gay people to the back of the stage because gay people having AIDS is just tiresome.

[quote][R301], I do not know what you are talking about. I do not know if it was 50-50 men an women, but most of the members I knew were lesbians.

I think I'm more wondering why Larry Kramer didn't put any lesbians into The Normal Heart. He seems to indicate that those meetings were just a bunch of gay men fighting with each other.

R314: Honestly, [italic]Team America[/italic] got it right:

R301, lesbians have always been an essential part of both GMHC and ACT UP. Always. Essential.

That Team America clip is so wrong and yet so funny!

I honestly like it better than [italic]South Park[/italic].

My understanding is that when Jonathan Larsen brought Rent to New York Theatre Workshop that it was nearly 4 hours long. They had to do a lot of trimming and rearranging.

I wish that they had given the "came to say goodbye love" section to Angel. But I get that they were trying to make Tom a nice character in a cast full of flawed characters and they couldn't let us think that he might abandon Angel over HIV.

[quote] My understanding is that when Jonathan Larsen brought Rent to New York Theatre Workshop that it was nearly 4 hours long. They had to do a lot of trimming and rearranging.

That's nothing new. I heard [italic]The King & I[/italic] was 5 hours long during Boston tryouts!

[quote]I get that Larsen was also shadowing La Boheme, but I really think that he should have thought up something besides HIV for Roger and Mimi. I sort of get Schulman's point with this. Let's give the straight couple AIDS and push any gay people to the back of the stage because gay people having AIDS is just tiresome.

Well, I don't agree with this part of your post. Of the eight man characters in RENT, two of them are gay men and two are lesbians. And of the two gay men, both are HIV positive and one of them dies of AIDS, and I really wouldn't say that story line is "pushed to the back of the stage." So I really don't understand your perspective. And one more thing -- as you must know, straight people DID (and do) get AIDS, too, especially intravenous drug users.

I don't really think of THE NORMAL HEART as being about ACT UP at all. It's a reflection of the earliest days of the epidemic, including the Gay Men's Health Crisis (GMHC), the group Kramer co-founded sometime around 1982, which he then left/was pushed out of.

Kramer then co-founded ACT UP in 1987: [quote]ACT UP was formed in March 1987 at the Lesbian and Gay Community Services Center in New York City. Larry Kramer was asked to speak as part of a rotating speaker series, and his well-attended speech focused on action to fight AIDS. Kramer spoke out against the current state of the Gay Men's Health Crisis (GMHC), which he perceived as politically impotent. Kramer had co-founded the GMHC but had resigned from its board of directors in 1983. According to Douglas Crimp, Kramer posed a question to the audience: "Do we want to start a new organization devoted to political action?" The answer was "a resounding yes". Approximately 300 people met two days later to form ACT UP.

Not to pick nits. But if we don't get queer history right among ourselves, then no one will.

R322 Not to mention that in the early '90s there were a lot of complaints about how Hollywood et al. were giving the impression that only gays/lesbians got AIDS/HIV. I think this was Larson's way of combating that.

Why are people using the ridiculous term 'queer'?

Gay is a fairly ridiculous term itself.

R326 but gay means 'happy,' and queer means 'weird'

Queer means nothing. There is no such thing as queer history.

Define yourself as you like, people.

FWIW, "queer history" is the preferred term among people who write, research, publish, and teach precisely.... that.

[Quote] gay means 'happy,'

Yes, and that's a rather silly word to stand for a sexual orientation. "Straight" is also silly.

R329 Meh, assholes conning assholes with bullshit.

I would like to know what Andrea McArdle did to get Kristen Vigard fired from Annie. When they were workshopping it at Goodspeed they had an entirely different concept. Vigard is too classy to spill her guts in that pissed off orphans documentary, but I'd like to know what went down!

The whole 'queer' debate reminds me of when some black people that I knew complained about the term 'African-American' being forced upon them. They said, "We are simply American." They thought it made them sound like second-class citizens.

Is 'African-American' still a popular usage? I tend to see more and more people of color, instead.

I've heard Vigard sing as an adult (she covered the Illeana Douglas vocals for that 90s movie, GRACE OF MY HEART). She's quite good, but an altogether different kind of voice than McArdle, who was a baby belter. Maybe they were moving more in that direction.

(of course, this doesn't give much of an idea what she sounded like at 13. But it's not a Broadway belt.)

Okay, check this out: Vigard in the FIRST public appearance of ANNIE, singing "Maybe."

And she's good.... but not quite the heart-stopper that a young Andrea McArdle was, vocally.

She got a raw deal from the sounds of it, regardless.

[quote](of course, this doesn't give much of an idea what she sounded like at 13. But it's not a Broadway belt.)

Very Stevie Nicks.

[quote] And she's good.... but not quite the heart-stopper that a young Andrea McArdle was, vocally.

Yeah, she doesn't have the smooth transition between chest and head voice.

Vigard went from Annie to the HAIR revival, I think. She sang "Frank Mills."

Charnin said that he realized Annie should have a “street tough” quality to her, and that just wasn’t in Vigard’s wheelhouse.

That wasn't in McArdle's wheelhouse either.

It was in mine!

Why is SJP wearing a black bow tie in that show?

It's shocking that they fired the singing Kristen Vigard, only to ultimately cast the ultimate non-singing (now and forever) SJP in the title role.

Did Vigard have a growth spurt? If she went into HAIR the next year, that seems likely.

I saw Rent Remixed in London - it was awful, but entertaining. It would be completely torn to shreds today - Joanne and Mimi were both played by skinny white women, and Mark looked like an Abercrombie model. It had an absolutely hideous set - directed by the guy who does Kylie Minogue's concert tours.

Leon Lopez was a brilliant Collins though. I think he has since played the role in more conventional productions.

I saw SJP go on as Annie before she permanently took over the role. (There was a collective groan from the audience during the pre-show announcement that we were seeing an understudy). SJP was thoroughly charming and winning in the role and also sang it well. Maybe not in Andrea McArdle or Lilla Crawford's leagues, but better than some.

Her ineptness in Once Upon a Mattress was shocking by comparison, but I think that was an issue of severe miscasting. Winnifred in OUAM is a clown's role. Something for a vaudevillian-style performer to run through her bag of tricks, like Burnett. Also, the boisterous Winnifred is completely unlike a princess, which is sort of the joke of the character. SJP plays a lot of princess-type roles, so it wasn't a great fit from the start. When SJP got to the mattress sequence, there wasn't a laugh in the house. Completely painful to witness.

Most shows go through some re-writes during previews - whether minor or major, tweaks to songs or some songs re-written or thrown out all together. Since Larson died the night before previews started Rent was never able to go through that part of the process. The remaining creatives were in a bit of a hard spot. How to make necessary changes without the creator there. Rent went through very little of that part of the process and it shows - other than adding the opening bit of dialogue for Mark (We begin on Christmas Eve...) which came directly from Larson's notes and the re-ordering of some songs. I think had Larson lived, there would have been some changes made and who knows what the show would have looked like on opening night.

Having lived like a lot of the characters in Rent I can tell you...we did have jobs. I do not know why everyone assumes the characters in Rent did not.

However, in 1987 it was truly hard to get a well-paying job. (I did the exact same job a decade later and made twice as much.) The 80s really were not a great time economically unless you owned real estate.

Larson had a string of low-paying jobs with no insurance. The sickness that killed him was easily treatable. If he had insurance he would have lived.

The biggest problem with the original production was the poor staging. It was staged like a freak show, so you never really got inside the characters. I have seen one subsequent staging which was a huge improvement. If you really make the characters human beings rather than cartoons, the play can be moving.

"The sickness that killed him was easily treatable. If he had insurance he would have lived."

Hang on - didn't he die of an aortic dissection? An aortic aneurysm (which I assume underlay that) is very far from easily treatable: it's a profoundly risky operation.

Rent's biggest longevity problem was that it excitingly captured two great Zeitgeist moments: the end of the millennium and the gradual end of the long AIDS trauma. Nobody who wasn't around in the late 1990s can really appreciate those aspects of the show any more.

Getting back to Bebe, she was fucking George Stephanopoulos for a time. Saw him leave her apartment building one morning with total bedhead.

And was anyone aware of his condition? I thought his sudden death was a complete surprise.

I had a friend die from this. He had very little warning--some back pain on a Sunday that he chalked up to exertion and might have phoned his doctor about on the Monday. Sometime late Sunday or early Monday he apparently got up to pee and dropped dead--was probably dead before he hit the floor.

For you residents--Larson had been working as a waiter at the Moondance diner in Soho. That was a staple in the neighborhood for a long time, even though it really wasn't very good.

I can definitely see where healthcare/insurance would be an issue. He was a middle-class Jewish kid from Westchester, but he was paying his own bills. And he was not some Lower East Side anarchist hipster: he was a straight musical theatre geek who happened to be living the way a lot of us did back then. Per Wiki:

[quote]Larson moved to a loft with no heat on the fifth floor of a building at the corner of Greenwich Street and Spring Street in Lower Manhattan where he lived with various roommates, among them Greg Beals, a journalist for Newsweek magazine and the brother of actress Jennifer Beals, and James Clunie, now a creative director at advertising agency BBDO. For nine and a half years Larson worked as a waiter at the Moondance Diner during weekends, and worked on composing and writing musicals during the weekdays. At the diner Larson later met Jesse L. Martin, who was his waiting trainee and later would perform the role of Tom Collins in the original cast of Larson's Rent. Larson and his roommates lived in harsh conditions with little money or property.

What's...the...NEWS?

4 ANNIES 4!

[quote]Larson had a string of low-paying jobs with no insurance. The sickness that killed him was easily treatable. If he had insurance he would have lived.

No, I think he went to the hospital and they misdiagnosed what he had and sent him home.

R350 ,R352 He did indeed die of an aortic dissection. But it was caused by an underlying condition that could have been treatable.

He had symptoms but like most uninsured young New Yonkers, he but did not see a doctor and hoped they would pass. When it was unbearable, he finally went to the emergency room and was misdiagnosed.

Had he had regular checkups his underlying disorder (which was probably Marfan syndrome) probably would have been diagnosed and he would have been put on drug therapy that could have decreased the chances of aortic dissection. He would have known how to avoid activity likely to endager his life. If he had gone to a doctor when the symptoms first occurred, he could have had surgery.

But because he could not afford medical treatment, he was not diagnosed and then during the last bout he delayed treatment. Had he gone earlier even if he had been misdiagnosed, the mistake would have been discovered while surgery was still possible.

Had he been diagnosed with Marfan earlier, the misdiagnosis and delay would have been unlikely.

Also, friends said he had recurrent heart and lung distress but since it passed and doctors were expensive, he never had it checked on.

Is it known that he had Marfan, or is this just an educated guess?

Lee Roy's version...

I have no access to his medical records but the Larson family says it was Marfan.

Since his death they have supported the Marfan Foundation to raise awareness.

Apparently Ashley Day has a new BF and is no longer pining over Robbie Fairchild.

[quote] Okay, check this out: Vigard in the FIRST public appearance of ANNIE, singing "Maybe." And she's good.... but not quite the heart-stopper that a young Andrea McArdle was, vocally.

I don't think she sounds very good in that clip. As someone else noted, her pitch wavers a lot. Andrea McArdle couldn't (and probably still can't ) act, and I personally never liked the way she belted ALL of the songs in ANNIE, but she definitely was vocally strong and consistent, so maybe that's why she got the role.

[quote]Having lived like a lot of the characters in Rent I can tell you...we did have jobs. I do not know why everyone assumes the characters in Rent did not.

I think it's pretty clear that Roger and Mark don't have jobs, at least not steady ones. I suppose Mark may get some money for doing video projects, and Roger may work occasionally as a musician/singer. Mark keeps avoiding taking a steady job that's offered to him. Collins is a teacher working at NYU, if I remember correctly. As for the other characters, I'm not sure.

Mimi worked as a stripper, I think.

DL fave Troye Sivan has Marfan, right?

[R295]: After seeing the original cast of “Rent,” and not having heard much about it, I came away thinking the whole thing was using diversity as a mask for attention, covering a central story about straight white people.

Of the much touted gay characters, all of them seem to be people of color, while the two white male leads are vehemently straight. (Not to mention that they are both pretty smug and self-centered, criticizing everything, except when they can get something for themselves.)

And, though several of the main characters are HIV-positive, at the time a more serious, life-and-death issue, no one acts very concerned about it. (Not to mention adding an out-of-nowhere happy ending! WTF!!!)

All the writers did was steal the plot of “La Boheme,” and add a lot of contemporary details to get attention, none of which make much sense.

What a scam.

A friend of mine told me at the time, “You know, if that guy hadn’t died, this show would have been a big flop.”

Ashley is dating Adam Kaplan from Newsies, Bronx Tale, and the Kinky Boots tour.

Yes, LPSG has been reposting their (non-nude) pix for a while now. I guess they were keeping it to their stories, rather than their main feed. It amuses me how IG stories are the way to peek out of the closet, e.g. OJC's Pride posts.

If this wasn't posted in the Wildcat thread, it should have been...

[quote]After seeing the original cast of “Rent,” and not having heard much about it, I came away thinking the whole thing was using diversity as a mask for attention, covering a central story about straight white people.

There's a typically idiotic SJW comment for you. The only "straight white people" among the eight leads are Roger and Mark. Mimi and Angel were conceived as people of color, and have been played by people of color in every professional production I've ever seen.

[quote]Of the much touted gay characters, all of them seem to be people of color, while the two white male leads are vehemently straight.

First of all, Maureen is white, and she's obviously bisexual. Also, are you saying there's something wrong with the fact that most of the gay characters are people of color? If they weren't, you would probably wonder, "Why are there so few people of color among the gay characters in this show?" And finally, what the hell does "vehemently straight" mean?

Does HAIR really hold up anymore?

Hair. Skip the first twenty minutes. Rupaul fucks up bigtime.

It weird how the original cast of Rent has become a template for so many other productions.

The best production I saw had a black Roger and Mimi. But even so, I think there is a lot of truth that the characters are really all white. Angel is an idea not a person. Roger, Mimi, Mark, Maureen, and Maureen's girlfreind (whose name I forget) have no connection to any non-whte community or culture. I love the music, but there is a problem with the conception of the characters at the core. They just float there without any past, culture, or even connection to people other than their small circle. So they are not really believable.

Their artistic work is either treated as a joke or is created without any real effort, so other than Tom Collins and Benny (decidedly minor character) they do not seem to have any really valid purpose in life.

The real East Village artists may not all have produced great art, but they did have a sense of purpose and worked their asses off trying to make something exciting.

Ugh. Annie and Rent. I never thought I'd be longing for Follies chatter again.

The Barber Shop Chronicles.

[quote]Ugh. Annie and Rent. I never thought I'd be longing for Follies chatter again.

I doubt you'll have to wait very long.

R373, I don't understand your criticisms at all, especially not your statements that "Angel is an idea, not a person" (a silly, nonsensical comment), "Roger, Mimi, Mark, Maureen, and Maureen's girlfriend have no connection to any non-white community or culture" (what does that even mean?) and "they just float there without any past, culture, or even connection to people other than their small circle" (again -- what???)

Ya want FOLLIES? I'll give ya FOLLIES!

^

The Mirror number at 53:25 is NOT to be missed!

I SHOULD HAVE worn green, not I'M WEARING green.

High schools would be better off with Two Gentlemen. Well the original production was pretty terrific.

Do catch Can That Boy Fox Trot at 1:28:40!

Please find the community theatre production of DREAMGIRLS with the suspiciously pale, soprano Effie.

OMG, the One More Kiss at 1:32:22. I know it's not nice to laugh, but....I'm laughing again.

[quote] Does HAIR really hold up anymore?

The movie is the only reason anyone cares anymore. That and the toxic lingering chemical aftertaste of baby boomer cultural hegemony.

For all the hate SJP gets, she’s the only former Annie who played it professionally and managed not to have her whole career defined by it.

Under 2 scenarios, Aaron Tveit will lose his Tony - if they put all male actors in one category (Danny B will win) or if they make one actor category for all male and female leads (Karen O or Adrienne W will win).

Not sure Slave Play is a shoo in - it’ll be a fight between White guilt and White rage (people who hated it because it talked down to them).

What happened to James Grissom over on medium.com - he threw a bunch of stinkbombs at Broadway (and the Roths) and then just disappeared? I wonder if a cease and desist was issued???

I don't think Allison Smith's career was entirely defined by ANNIE. She's associated more with Kate & Allie.

R390, when was that show last rerun on cable?

Will this year's Tony winners be forever tainted with an asterisk next to their names?

R379 Lord, Lord Lord, Lord, Lord --- that "Mirror" number would have actually kind of worked if they ever made "Machinal" into a musical -- but thanks for a good laugh

Leroy Reams, wonderful performer, but doesn't his name seem to want to cry out and be Leroy Creams?

Lee Roy Rims (Old Broads like Ethel Merman).

It’s a dirty job, but somebody’s got to do it.

An asterisk for what, R392? One that says "XXX only got this award because XXX couldn't be nominated due to COVID"?

R378 - Wow. I've noticed that a lot of those high budget, full orchestra productions of way-too-adult high school musical productions (like Follies) are often produced at private religious schools. I guess that's probably a confluence of... having bigger budgets than public schools and, presumably, having glass-closeted Drama teacher queens living out their Sondheim fantasies via precocious 16 and 17 year old kids.

[quote]OMG, the One More Kiss at 1:32:22. I know it's not nice to laugh, but....I'm laughing again.

The only problem with Old Heidi is that hideous costume! The girl actually handles the song decently for a high school girl, if a little too much vibrato.

But Young Heidi. Jesus Holy Christ, what the hell is she doing when she starts in on the vocal trills. It's like she's auditioning for Madame Arcati in last semester's production of Blithe Spirit. And what director has the ghost walk in front of Old Heidi as she is singing?

And why the hell did they add in "Can That Boy Foxtrot"? They didn't need it.

Aren't Catholic high schools usually single-gender?

R399 is posting from the 1930s.

Has anyone sen the Kyle Dean Massey-Taylor Frey hard cocksucking in a pool in Palm Springs video clips? It's quite an 11 o'clock number!

r401

You mean there's a video going around? On LPSG?

R401 I was just about the post about it, but then had second thoughts at trying to explain to this crowd how to refresh properly to see videos on LPSG...

It's interesting how they managed to preserve a facade of total monogamous bliss for so long, and yet the past few weeks have seen stories of them being open, fucking around together and individually, and now these videos, which were obviously made for someone...

lol, r398. Yes, it was those trills that I was trying not to laugh at....with zero success.

[quote] Wow. I've noticed that a lot of those high budget, full orchestra productions of way-too-adult high school musical productions (like Follies) are often produced at private religious schools. I guess that's probably a confluence of... having bigger budgets than public schools and, presumably, having glass-closeted Drama teacher queens living out their Sondheim fantasies via precocious 16 and 17 year old kids.

I've only watched a little bit of that high school FOLLIES video, but those have GOT to be professionally recorded orchestral tracks, right? The orchestra sounds way to good to have been live, even if they jobbed in local professionals.

That high school FOLLIES is pretty bad. The other high school version that someone posted a few months back was much better.

Did this KDM-Taylor video already get taken down? I see it referenced on... that site... but don't see the actual post(s) anywhere.

R408 It did, the Broadway boys always work fast. I wonder if one's always watching and then alerts the others.

There was a little bit of controversy on there last week too, apparently a photographer for works for Playbill has been involved in leaking nudes of Broadway guys.

In our day, male nude photos were tasteful and only published in black-and-white.

But What Do We Do About Audrey's Tits?

Look up what David O Selznick did about Vivien Leigh's, R411. There were numerous memos on the subject.

r401

a video you say...? anyone have a link?

What is LPSG?

It’s like a Datalounge for those obsessed with big dicks. Or is that redundant? Google it and all will be revealed R414.

"Not sure Slave Play is a shoo in - it’ll be a fight between White guilt and White rage (people who hated it because it talked down to them)."

Bet everything you have on Slave Play winning. The combination of the new "woke" Broadway and the BLM movement is a perfect way for Broadway to fight accusations that it is racist. Even if the voters didn't like the play, they will vote for it for political reasons.

Can you imagine the outrage— the outage!— if it doesn’t win? Even though, ahem, it’s a bad play.

R403 please help us. I have never been able to figure it out

R416 - never underestimate the secrecy of the voting booth. The author is thought to be insufferable, and combine that with a play that offended people, may not be a winning combo. People will tell others one thing, then vote a different way.

R416 - they can vote for “A Soldier’s Story” and David Alan Grier if they’re wanting to spread the awards around.

Who cares about Kyle Dean Massey’s dick? It’s all about his succulent arse.

Who cares about Kyle Dean Massey’s dick? It’s all about his succulent arse.

KDM isn't that big but Taylor's got skills.

ALW gives the WAP challenge the Phantom twist:

First photo of the cast of Ryan Murphy's film version of "The Prom":

Kidman is permanently pillowfaced, isn't she?

The Prom is such a generic, uninspired title. They couldn't come up with anything better?

Promenade was already taken.

It was discussed on previous TG threads during the (too brief) run: the title and the marketing for THE PROM did nothing to help sell the show.

Titles are brands. They're so important to any show, but particularly for musicals. We laugh at the corniness of something like DO-RE-MI or IT'S A BIRD, IT'S A PLANE, IT'S SUPERMAN but at least they establish a tone, a feeling, or even a time and place.

The problem is that the show has a split personality. It's half earnest little high school lesbian romance and half farcical showbiz romp. The authors never really blended the two successfully. I honestly can't think of a title that would spell out both.

LES GO TO THE PROM!

L'IL SISTERS WITHOUT MISTERS

MAKE SURE WE DON'T WEAR THE SAME DRESS

"Let's put on a pussy show, right here!"

Does Zoot Suit hold up?

PM&L

I'm going to have to watch Naked City today.

*

Naked City

SEASON 2 • EPISODE 20 • THE FAULT IN OUR STARS • DRAMA / CRIME DRAMA

Hungry and broke, an unemployed actor attacks his biggest role: robbing---and killing---cab drivers. Don: Roddy McDowall. Norma: Mary Fickett. Flint: Paul Burke. Parker: Horace McMahon. Mrs. Purely: Florence Anglin. Arcaro: Harry Bellaver. Betty: Patricia Bosworth...

So, is there a link to the Taylor/Kyle Dean video? They're both gorgeous.

Catholic schools have always been both single sex and coed forever. I was going to go to an all male catholic school but my dad said who wants to be around just guys all the time? Ahem.

R417 There'll be outrage if it wins too - the posters on Lipstick Alley hate the show, and think JOH wishes he was white. And then there was this video...

The score to Hair remains sensational to this day. It's the book that sinks it. I'm not even a rock fan but even as a boy who listened constantly to Dolly and Fiddler I loved it.

I saw The Prom. It could be re-titled The Suck.

[quote]Does Zoot Suit hold up?

What do you think the suspenders are for?

I saw the HAIR revival with Will Swenson et al. It was enjoyable. The book didn't sink it. The show zipped along.

Has The Prom been fully shot? I'm sure it'll debut around November or December, right?

[quote]Does Zoot Suit hold up?

Isn't "hold up" generally used to describe successful shows and not one that closed a month after it opened?

Yeah, r444, I guess you're right. But they did get a movie out of it!

Let's not forget that HAIR came at the perfect time, when the country was reeling from an unwinnable war and thousands of Americans and Vietnamese were dying unnecessarily. The productions I saw (and each location or "tribe" created their own experience) were extraordinarily powerful. I agree that the score is wonderful, even if what surrounds it seems imperfect or naive by today's standards.

Long Days Journey Into Night with Laurie Metcalf.

Incident at Vichy.

I thought that, in directing the movie of "Hair," Milos Forman made the right decision by tossing out the free-form original book and giving it a linear plot. The score was the only reason to make a movie out of it.

Kes Reimagined.

I think Hair would make a good revival right now.

Unfortunately I can't think if the right person who could bring some freshness to it while knowing how to shape the production to best effect. We've lost so many of the best creatives.

How about Urinetown?

[quote]Unfortunately I can't think if the right person who could bring some freshness to it while knowing how to shape the production to best effect.

Maybe Sam Mendes or Nicholas Hytner?

Ivo Van Ho. He can project sodomy on the back wall.

Good choices 453.

It's a powerful play when done right and I do think the music would resonate to the new yoots (youths).

[quote]He can project sodomy on the back wall.

I have no doubt he can.

But who will clean it up?

Taylor Frey, if video evidence is to be believed.

WE SEE YOU WHITE TONY AWARDS!!!

The Diane Paulus revival of HAIR was a decade ago. It worked brilliantly in Central Park. I didn't see it once it moved to Bway later, but it ran for about 3 months, so my guess it was a commercial bust.

I don't know if there's really an audience for another revival.

Is URINETOWN even worth reviving? I saw it toward the end of its Bway run, and I suspect I liked it less than anyone.

No. It ran longer on Broadway. I don't think it did too well in London (with the same cast).

Per IBDB, it was 3 months almost to the day. 11 previews, 67 performances.

oh, my error. Sorry, R460. The 3 months was the run at another theatre . This was after 519 performances at the Hirschfeld!

Freakin' IBDB.

Urinetown is shit.

I knew something was up. There was a second cast when Swenson et al. went to London. American Idol's Ace Young took over for Swenson and Diana DeGarmo was the "Easy to Be Hard" woman. Kyle Riabko took over for Gavin Creel.

The Paulus revival ran one year and three months, Mar 31, 2009 - Jun 27, 2010. I believe that more recent Broadway run, Jul 13, 2011 - Sep 10, 2011, was a sort of return engagement of that same production after a tour.

What about reviving 9 TO 5, from the same season as the HAIR revival?

ENRON!

Did you know that both ENRON and FENCES were nominated for a Tony for "Best Original Score" in 2010? Wow.

Along with THE ADDAMS FAMILY. The Tony went to MEMPHIS.

I’m not a huge fan of Diane Paulus, but her production of Hair was absolutely terrific. She managed to find story and emotional arcs in that ridiculous book. And the score was well-served.

HAIR at the Delacorte in Central Park remains a special theatre memory for me.

I really like Diane Paulus' version of PIPPIN, but it didn't quite hit me emotionally the way HAIR did.

And now for something completely different, and not in a good way: DL fave Linda Lavin singing the worst version of "Some People" you are likely to ever hear.

That Lavin clip is actually pretty good. That's not how she sang it in the show at all. She was far more angry and bitter. This version is really interesting and more wistful and dreamy. Narratively, it would make sense for Rose to not be as bitter and angry here and would allow for a better build throughout the performance. The lyrics are sarcastic and bitter enough without having to add an angry performance on top of it like many other Roses have done.

It's interesting that this clip was from 3 years before she actually played the role on Broadway. Did Laurents direct her to be more angry? Seems like something he'd do, the bitter bastard. Goes to show you what difference a director can make (in both good and bad ways).

R443, yes, Ryan Murphy says in that IG post that the cast “buckled up and finished the shoot during Covid.” It’s scheduled for a Christmas release.

Did Laurents direct her at all? Aren't replacements put in by the stage manager?

I doubt Laurents ever passed up an opportunity to order people around.

I wonder if anyone will #meetoo Laurents. Wasn't there a suggestion that his treatment of Matt Kavenaugh was a little... less than professional?

The rumour was he drove Matt out of the industry.

Any of the NT posts or other theater post links (thank you) have any good male nudity?

^ Cat On A Hot Tin Roof has endless male nudity of the chav. And it is the stupidest production ever.

R479 Well, this certainly fits your brief.

r471 - And then there's....

The fact that they had to put "Momma Brice in Funny Girl" on the album cover... That album was not planned for Kay Medford. Beryl Reid did a few studio cast albums (e.g. Hello Dolly!). It was probably meant for her.

[quote] Ugh. Annie and Rent. I never thought I'd be longing for Follies chatter again.

For what it’s worth, [italic]Annie[/italic] aged better, only a cut below the all-time greats.

But only if they leave if the "Herbert Hoover number

leave IN

[quote]R41 They should make "New York, New York - The Musical" about the making of the movie

My friend was a dance extra in that big sequence that goes on forever at the beginning of the movie. She said it took weeks to film partially because Liza was always off crying in her dressing room.

R471: Come on, she was not worse than Kay Medford.

[quote]r143 Dear sweet Angie/[R141], that's not a kick. You had to hold on to the counter to achieve it. Kisses, Alexis Smith

Girls, girls! You’re BOTH amateurs!

Angie could kick higher than Disney was comfortable with.

Nobody did it better.

I'm old enough to remember Ann in the chorus of Pippin.

Yes you did notice her.

[quote]R358 Also, friends said Larson had recurrent heart and lung distress but since it passed and doctors were expensive, he never had it checked on.

Wasn’t he a fatty?

Perhaps that's true of "replacements," R475.

But I am a star. A star who takes direction from a director, not a stage manager.

[quote]That Lavin clip is actually pretty good. That's not how she sang it in the show at all. She was far more angry and bitter.

She didn't sing "Some People" that way in the show because the show version has a completely different arrangement, and it's all in uptempo rather than slow ad lib like this version, plus the show version has a full orchestra, not just piano, and so on and so on. It wouldn't have been possible for her to sing the song in the show the way she does in that clip. P.S. She gets some of the lyrics wrong in this performance, which must have pissed off Sondheim.

The Cat On a Hot Tin Roof posted above points up the ongoing stupidity of actors getting their bodies inked, as Jack O'Connell, the Brick, is nude for a bit then in a towel for a long time, showing much skin, and he has a huge "Jack the Lad" tattoo on his right arm that throws the audience right out of the play for the entire first scene.

Why would Brick have "Jack the Lad" on his body? It's so fucking idiotic for these guys to decorate themselves when they're going to play characters who are different from themselves.

Plus, it just makes the actor look like a classless idiot. I don't care how many of these guys do this. It's still freakish to go around looking like a wall of graffiti.

I think I should add though that, now that I'm 35 or so minutes into Act One, I find this Cat very interesting. Both the Brick and Maggie are beautiful to look at, too. It's too early to tell how he is as an actor because Brick's first act is largely one-note--the big scenes come later.

But the Maggie is very endearing. She's good at emphasizing the character's desperation rather than her anger at Brick.

Oh, my. Who is the interviewer in R438’s link?

I specifically hated the treatment of women in Slave Play, too. And I’m glad somebody asked Jeremy O’Harris about it.

R498 This is her Twitter

[quote]Liza was always off crying in her dressing room.

Dealer low on heroin suppositories?

I've always said that scene, where De Niro breaks down Liza's defenses and gets her to go out with him, is a good litmus test for one's enjoyment of New York, New York. You either think it's too long or it's accurate.

Thanks, R499.

[quote]The Cat On a Hot Tin Roof posted above points up the ongoing stupidity of actors getting their bodies inked, as Jack O'Connell, the Brick, is nude for a bit then in a towel for a long time, showing much skin, and he has a huge "Jack the Lad" tattoo on his right arm that throws the audience right out of the play for the entire first scene. Why would Brick have "Jack the Lad" on his body? It's so fucking idiotic for these guys to decorate themselves when they're going to play characters who are different from themselves. Plus, it just makes the actor look like a classless idiot. I don't care how many of these guys do this. It's still freakish to go around looking like a wall of graffiti.

Agreed 100 percent.

[quote]I think I should add though that, now that I'm 35 or so minutes into Act One, I find this Cat very interesting. Both the Brick and Maggie are beautiful to look at, too. It's too early to tell how he is as an actor because Brick's first act is largely one-note--the big scenes come later. But the Maggie is very endearing. She's good at emphasizing the character's desperation rather than her anger at Brick.

Fine. But of course, CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF makes no sense when set in the present day, as that production obviously was, judging by the furniture and the costumes.

[quote]I've always said that scene, where De Niro breaks down Liza's defenses and gets her to go out with him, is a good litmus test for one's enjoyment of New York, New York. You either think it's too long or it's accurate.

I remember thinking that scene was too long when I saw the movie for the first time, in its initial release. But far worse, isn't there a scene later on where Scorsese weirdly gives us the same scene twice -- I mean, the same actual film? Maybe it was a scene in a parked car? I don't know what point he was attempting to make, but that took me right out of the movie.

[quote]that took me right out of the movie.

Lucky you.

Lucky lady.

"Brick's first act is largely one-note"

The bulk of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof is three monologues, none of which belongs to Brick. In Act One, in particular, his lines are mostly of the ilk of "Is that so, Maggie?", which serve simultaneously to give the actress a breath and egg Maggie on.

Yes, and Big Mama even answered a cell phone at one point.

Thank you to the poster who put it up--I really enjoyed it, though I think the director was lame in the act endings, especially the last one.

Interesting, though, that he used the original Act Three (which was performed without an intermission separating it from Act Two) rather than the one Elia Kazan made Williams write, to bring Big Daddy back onstage. In the original text, used here, Big Daddy can be heard crying out in pain offstage but does not reappear.

Kazan's point was that Big Daddy is such a BIG character that the audience would feel frustrated if he doesn't come back into play.

The remark about the cell phone was meant for R503.

I didn't realize other posts had intervened.

I once saw a Cat done with Irish accents, set in the modern day. Horrendous

It's funny. I'd never assume that the production of "Cat" was present day. I guess I'm used to modern dress productions, particularly of Shakespeare.

I saw a Taming of the Shrew set in the 1970s, complete with Irish dancing from Bianca. It was hilarious, very enjoyable.

I saw the "Cat" above in the West End and, even with all the directorial stupidity, I really enjoyed it. the ending, in particular, was shattering. The silence that followed, even after the lights went out, felt like an eternity. I know, Mary! And that actor was delicious.

SNL did a parody called "Escape from New York, New York" starring Robert DeNiro as the Mumbler and Liza Minnelli as The Dog.

Sondheimites: are any of you posting in the "Tell Me About a Youngish SS" thread?

Also: which Sondheim shows (music & lyrics, not lyrics only) were actually profitable during their initial Bway run? My showqueen friend said only 2 were, then didn't tell me which ones. That sounds low.

My guess is that ANYONE CAN WHISTLE, FOLLIES, PACIFIC OVERTURES, SWEENEY TODD, SUNDAY ITPWG, & PASSION were all not profitable in their initial run. But can anyone confirm which ones were?

One thing I've always wondered about Rent - was there ever a version where Mimi did not miraculously come back from the dead or was that always part of Larson's La Boheme reworking? As others have noted, there's no telling how the preview period and downtime before Broadway would have changed songs/scenes in the piece, but I think the unfinished work in progress quality to the material was part of it's original magic. The potential and possibilities that would never be.

A sorta similar situation - when did A Chorus Line change the time and place from "Today" to "1976" - weren't there minor changes and updates in the script during the original run?

When the original run of A CHORUS LINE was still playing in early 1990, was it still "today"?

Did they ever update the costumes? Bway dancers would have worn different clothes in 1985-1990 than in 1975. It interesting how the theatre district didn't change radically during that time, though, compared to 1990-2020.

Theoni considered her ACL costumes her masterpiece, r517.

I saw the original ACL about a month before it closed. By then, the program note had been changed to reflect time, but everything else, costumes and lyrics, were the same.

I wonder if the movie had been a hit, might they have refit the show.

Instead, they did the opposite to avoid making the same mistakes as the movie: they set the performances in stone and pretty much the only thing that changed is making the reference to Lana Turner into Tina Turner.

I assume Company and A Little Night Music made money. Along with Funny Thing which was his only hit in the old-fashioned sense of the word.

I thought I read that Forum, Company, ALNM and ITW were the only ones that’s turned a profit. Sweeney, I think, broke even on tour or something like that.

Yes, FORUM ran almost 1000 performances in 1962-64.

Did Sunday in the Park turn a profit? It moved from off-Broadway, so it doesn't seem like there should have been a lot of ramp up expenses. Maybe salaries increased due to Broadway contracts?

He said once he bought his Townhouse with his Forum money. Maybe it was specifically with the film sale? A friend who knew Kander said he bought his vacation home with the money he made with the film of Cabaret. Maybe the in the Hamptons?

Wasn't the original Chorus line setting something like "The Place: Here. The Time: Now."?

The only details I can glean on INTO THE WOODS is that it grossed almost $30 million during it's 2+ years on Bway.

So I'm assuming it made some real money, but I'm not certain.

[quote]It's funny. I'd never assume that the production of "Cat" was present day.

Well, with that furniture and those costumes -- and those tattoos -- that CAT certainly doesn't look like the late '50s or early '60s. If you're saying you'd "never assume" it was actually meant to be set in the present day even though the furniture, clothes, hair styles, etc., look modern, okay, but that makes no sense to me.

[quote]One thing I've always wondered about Rent - was there ever a version where Mimi did not miraculously come back from the dead or was that always part of Larson's La Boheme reworking?

I seen to recall reading or hearing that Larson had at least considered letting Mimi die, as she does in the opera, but couldn't bring himself to do so. Not sure if he ever actually wrote that ending, or if it was ever performed in any sort of a workshop.

[Quote] Well, with that furniture and those costumes -- and those tattoos -- that CAT certainly doesn't look like the late '50s or early '60s. If you're saying you'd "never assume" it was actually meant to be set in the present day even though the furniture, clothes, hair styles, etc., look modern, okay, but that makes no sense to me.

I thought my reference to modern dress Shakespeare might have given a clue as to what I was talking about... I guess not.

I understood you to mean that you don't consider modern dress productions of Shakespeare to be set in the present day, but I still don't understand why anyone would watch a production of CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF with present-day costumes, sets, etc. and still imagine that it was supposed to be taking place in the late 1950s or early '60s. What sense does that make, and what's the point? Are the fashions, etc. of that time felt to be so strange and remote to modern audiences that they can't accept them, and that's why they weren't used?

[Quote] why anyone would watch a production of CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF with present-day costumes, sets, etc. and still imagine that it was supposed to be taking place in the late 1950s or early '60s.

Perhaps because of the dialogue?

[Quote] Are the fashions, etc. of that time felt to be so strange and remote to modern audiences that they can't accept them, and that's why they weren't used?

Due to overfamiliarity, perhaps? I know I'm sick of bad "Well, I do declare" Southern accents in Tennessee Williams' productions. That doesn't mean the dialogue should be expected to work in any regional accent, but I don't object to trying it out.

[quote]Perhaps because of the dialogue?

But again, what is the point of producing a play with dialogue that clearly reflects a time about 60 years ago while the sets, costumes, etc. are all of the present day? I guess "over-familiarity" might be the justification, at least partly, but to me that's less important than the story and characters making sense in their environment and time period.

Muff Diving with Mary: Have we of the DL ever definitively discussed the rumored lesbianism of Mary Martin? She gave birth to the children of two different men, so she must have liked that D-bone at least some of the time. Was she dogged with these rumors during her lifetime? What do her relatives who are still alive say?

Are these lesbian rumors just repeated gossip, or is there credible proof of her gashbashing with Janet Gaynor? Letters, video, deathbed confessions, eyewitness accounts? Do any of the recent bios of her address this conjectured carpet munching head-on? What about the bio-musical about her from a few years back, did it have a number about it? Was she a late in life lesbian or a hasbian, and it was "just a phase" or were there other women? Did she ever experience LBD?

And while we're on Martin, did Ethel Merman surreptitiously scissor with Jackie Susann, or was that just a one-sided obsession on JS's part? That incident shows up in several recent Merman books too, but not with solid proof to back up the allegations.

I remember reading an interview with Sondheim where he said his townhouse was bought with the money from the Gypsy film sale.

There was an interview on Theater Talk with the original Minnie Fae from "Hello, Dolly!" Someone posted it here and claimed that she openly referred to Martin as gay (I guess she did the international tour with Martin?). The damn link was dead by the time I clicked on it, so I guess the episode was taken off YouTube within the week of it being uploaded. I'm sure someone here saved it.

Sondra Lee?

Yes, Sondra Lee.

Rita on Jerry...

R517, I recall hearing that the time was changed from "Now" to "1975 "around 1980.

Mary may have liked the occasional D, but so dd a lot of lesbians, at least if they wanted children. Her second husband was a big ol' gay man, and Mary's recent bio comes up with enough circumstantial evidence to hold up in court. Her relationships with Jean Arthur and Janet Gaynor seem to have been more than likely. Gaynor also married a gay man (the designer Adrian) and the two couples lived on adjoining properties in a remote part of Brazil, presumably away from the prying eyes of the media and the public. The bio indicates that Martin's husband had a live-in servant/cook/chauffeur who saw to his other needs.

[Quote] Mary may have liked the occasional D, but so dd a lot of lesbians

Preach!

Didn't Dionne Warwick move to Brazil as well? Makes ya think...

I'll Never Fall in Love Again!

A Chorus Line - Original Broadway Cast

Norman Lear ruined the movie version of ACL.

35 years later, Ryan Murphy is going to ruin it all over again.

Huh?

Ryan Murphy is doing A Chorus Line?

Norman Lear did A Chorus Line?

Can I play Zach this time?

Didn't you last time Audrey?

I directed the more dance heavy scenes, which is why I disappeared off screen. All for no credit, though.

[quote]...what is the point of producing a play with dialogue that clearly reflects a time about 60 years ago while the sets, costumes, etc. are all of the present day? I guess "over-familiarity" might be the justification, at least partly, but to me that's less important than the story and characters making sense in their environment and time period.

Because Benedict Andrews is a shit director who wants to PUT HIS MARK on the material. I think he must really hate Tennessee Williams, since he did the exact same thing with [bold]Streetcar[/bold] -- right down to the contemporary clothes, plastic chairs, and electric drip coffeemaker on the kitchen counter.

[italic]"Never, never, never in my worst dreams could I picture – Only Poe! Only Mr. Edgar Allan Poe! – could do it justice!"[/italic]

You know, Audrey had quite nice tits, actually.

There’s photographic proof.

[quote] Norman Lear did A Chorus Line?

Sort of. When he owned Embassy, they put up half the money in exchange for the United States distribution rights. Six months before it was released, he sold the studio to Coca-Cola while they owned Columbia.

Columbia, who had barely broken even with [italic]Annie[/italic] just a few years earlier though it apparently did better on video, distributed the movie, but Embassy Home Entertainment retained the home video rights that now lie with MGM who claimed them because they are successor-in-interest to the other producer, PolyGram.

He still felt it was worth a name drop in his utterly unfunny autobiography. The musicale episodes of [italic]Maude[/italic] had better staging, frankly.

Clearly the New York Times doesn't have the guts to do the Rudin story. Apparently attorneys have sent emails to all co-pros on the shows for documents. Could get interesting...

Ok, I’ll bite. What is the Rudin story?

Yres! It was Norman Lear! He's responsible! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

There is plenty of blame to go around for how that movie turned out. Attenborough cannot fall back on the “it’s my first movie musical” excuse because he already directed [italic]Oh, What a Lovely War[/italic] in 1969 and had a whole song in the original [italic]Doctor Doolittle[/italic].

Apparently photoshop techniques were very primitive in 1956, R555.

Now I’m imagining with a Marni Nixon cover version of “Dance 10, Looks Three” would sound like.

About as good as Marni Nixon dancing 'The Music and the Mirror'

What I Did Because I Love Zach,

Yes, let's forget the song is about love for one's art. It's really about loving another person more than loving one's art.

We made a lot of music dancing you and I.

They made the Zack and Cassie love story the central focus of the plot only to cast a Cassie who could not generate sexual chemistry with men if her life depended on it.

This was the best movie musical of 1985, and it even had a girl named Alyson in it as well:

Just watched Miss Shirley Booth on Dick Cavett. Such a trouper. Going on about her love of going by train from tour stop to tour stop. Currently on the road with Mr. Gig Young in Harvey. Then she pulled out a piece of paper and a small lorgnette and proceeded to list off every city and the dates of the tour. First stop - Central City, CO. The air there, she said, was "rarified".

R565, well imagine how the song would have sounded if runner up Ann Reinking did it.

Sarah and Coalhouse were bad parents. Perhaps if they had stayed home, they wouldn't have left their child an orphan.

Was Ann Reinking really the runner-up to Alyson Reed for the movie, r568? I saw Reinking play Cassie in LA when she came out for a couple of months to play the part when Leland Palmer had her breakdown.

Ann Reinking should have done the movie. She already had name recognition to moviegoers.

[quote]R570 I saw Reinking play Cassie in LA when she came out for a couple of months to play the part [bold]when Leland Palmer had her breakdown.[/bold]

Is there any in depth write up or interview about this? I’ve heard it alluded to but never read anything substantial.

How would you feel if a Broadway icon dumped you for someone prettier than you and then you had to make a movie with both of them?

Can I make a title suggestion for TG #401? Inspired by the Worst Ever Musical Theatre Lyric thread.

"Finishing the Hate" Edition

I second it.

Can Thread #420 be "We'd Like to Thank You, Herbert Hoover"? Asking for a friend.

[quote]How would you feel if a Broadway icon dumped you for someone prettier than you and then you had to make a movie with both of them?

Who are you talking about? Fosse, Verdon and Reinking?

Yes, basically.

Whom else fits such a description?

Fosse seems to have spent his life feeling guilty for always treating people like shit. While continuing to treat them like shit.

[quote]Whom else fits such a description?

Oh dear.

Show your work, R581.

It should be "Who else . . . "

Who is the subject of the verb "fits". The subjective form (who) is required.

Verdon and Fosse had long since adjusted to working together while living apart. By the time All That Jazz was filming, Verdon was hot and heavy in her own affair with hot young Jerry Lanning.

[italic]I want to talk about Leland Palmer's alleged psychotic break!

Bajour, baby!

Leland's Roxie would have been one for the ages...

"I'm older than I ever intended to be..."

[quote]Because Benedict Andrews is a shit director who wants to PUT HIS MARK on the material. I think he must really hate Tennessee Williams, since he did the exact same thing with Streetcar -- right down to the contemporary clothes, plastic chairs, and electric drip coffeemaker on the kitchen counter.

Thanks. I watched the first scene or two of that STREETCAR, then I had to stop because I couldn't take it anymore, and I never did go back to it. By the way, I honestly think one major reason for presenting these shows in minimalist productions with modern dress, sets, etc. is that it's generally cheaper to do them that way, and also, the director and the actors feel they don't have to be concerned about period style in the acting, the hair, the makeup, etc.

That fabulous chanteuse Julianne Moore will play the title character's mother in the "Dear Evan Hansen" movie.

Slave Play is the most important piece of theater in the history of staged literature. It made me feel very special, even though I paid no attention to it.

Hey, don't forget about me! I directed a crappy Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, too!

How old is Evan Hanson supposed to be? Wouldn't she be playing his grandmother at this point? All the plastic surgery from here to kingdom come does not change your age.

Speak for yourself, buster/R593.

One thing I have never understood is why the movie of Chorus Line defeated Michael Bennett, who tried to come up with a way to film it but gave up. Why not just put the show on stage? Would it really not have worked?

And with the requested title, here is the next thread...

I didn’t read an article, but I did spend an evening in SF several years ago with friends who knew her (her name is Linda Posner now) & invited her to join us. When asked (not by me), she specifically addressed her change in life: she knew as early as the end of Pippin that she was dissatisfied with her show biz career. Shooting “Valentino” with crazy Ken Russell clinched it for her - she wanted out. When the Chorus Line offer came- to replace McKechnie in the LA company - she accepted it because it would get her back to LA (where she was from, & where her parents still lived). She rehearsed & did one performance, & realized she couldn’t do it. She called Michael Bennett & told him, & he was sympathetic & told her to take a couple of months & come back later. She knew she wouldn’t come back. (This is when Bennett brought Reinking from NY, where she was finishing her own Cassie run, to play the part for several weeks). Leland/Linda started working in senior health care.

A couple of years later, Fosse called. He wanted her to, essentially, play Gwen in All That Jazz, but first to go into “Chicago” replacing Reinking as Roxie & finishing out the run. She turned him down flat, but eventually relented and agreed to do the film but not go into “Chicago.”

There is more to her story, which was fascinating, but that’s the part pertinent to Chorus Line. (I did not see her again).

[quote]Doctor Doolittle.

It's DOLITTLE, as in "do little" - - get it?

[quote]Can Thread #420 be "We'd Like to Thank You, Herbert Hoover"?

Did Hoover have something to do with marijuana?

No, with the vacuum cleaner Rose.