Theatre Gossip #399 - The "Judy Kaye Goes Into Quarantine" Edition

Might she become the new Jackie Weaver?

In this sequence, why are all the chorus boys looking at Alice Faye's bosom? Whose choreography is this?

Russ Meyer's.

R1 Yes---there's already talk of an Oscar nod. Judy could be the latest to win a prize for playing QEII.

Thank you, OP. Well done.

R5 Thank you, much appreciated.

I don't get it. Why is Judy Kaye in quarantine?

Musical Theatreitis, Rose.

The famous Lainie Kazan story involved the one time she went on in Funny Girl. She finally got her first rehearsal with the orchestra and after she had sung a few bars the conductor rapped the stand with his baton and said "No, no, no. Barbra does it like this" and hummed a few bars. She just stood there silently giving him the glare of death before saying slowing "I'M. NOT. BARBRA." He didn't interrupt again.

^ slowly

Is there a bootleg of the Jake Gyllenhaal Sunday in the Park?

R9 "...get a feathered hat for the baby."

R7 Before Netflix shoots "Diana" next month, Judy Kaye and the rest of the cast will be experiencing what the NY Times described as "an isolation protocol for the actors and stage managers." Make of that what you will.

They started quarantine Thursday for a month in some hotel.

Jacki, R1.

Christ. Imagine being in quarantine for a month for the sake of some shitty Diana musical.

But the paycheck must be sweet, r16, after a salary-free several months.

Yes, r11, there is. And it's pretty good,

R18 We have heard her sing the score.

Exactly, R17. I'm sure at this point they'd be willing to quarantine for "Green Acres: The Musical" if there was a paycheck attached.

Or HAZEL!

Thanks for another shitty thread title, OP.

[Quote] Thanks for another shitty thread title, OP.

What would yours have been?

[quote] What would yours have been?

Something better.

WE SEE YOU WHITE DIANA

[Quote] Theatre Gossip #400 - "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This, #399" Edition.

Do you have a link to it R18?

Gray Gardens.

London Assurance.

Ernest Shackleton Love Me.

That's not very festive, r26. Our gala #400 deserves a better title.

Can anyone spare a copy of “Flowers For Mrs Harris”? I’ve heard some good things about it. And much thanks to the person who posted the Sheridan Smith “Funny Girl”! I didn’t hate it. She plays “likable” very well. Can she play any other emotion?

R32 I did share it months ago, but it was 'vanished by YT'. I did not like it much at all, but shall have a look on my harddrive and see if I kept it...but do not hold much hope.

Sheridan turned Russell gay.

The outdoor concert version of A Little Night Music was performed tonight in London despite a persistent downpour. There’s a video of Janie Dee singing “Send in the Clowns” on Jason Carr’s FB page.

Why is she fat?

She's playing a romantic role and at a very young age. She should be slim, the way he is.

It doesn't look right. It's distracting. Maybe it's "realistic," but that's no excuse. Why are there almost always problems--glitches, really--with S Smith? She was terrific in Legally Blonde (in London), then controversial in Funny Girl, missing performances for bizarre reasons, not singing it as well as it needs to be sung, getting the comic inflections wrong.

At least it wasn't that awful Lea Michelle. But still.

Why don't the assholes who constantly complain about ( of all things) the thread title, post the new thread themselves? Then we can all be dazzled by their wit and brilliance. And, if you can't post - pay the fucking money . ....

Fat: S Smith, not J Dee. Someone else posted before I finished replying to R34.

[Quote] And, if you can't post - pay the fucking money . ....

You don't have to pay to start threads.

You have to pay to start good threads.

Smith has been more successful than she has been controversial. She was well received in "Little Shop of Horrors" as well. I don't understand her attempts at a pop career. I enjoy Miss Lake Dardanelle's version of "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" more than Smith's. And don't get me started on her version of Rufus Wainwright's "Dinner at Eight"...

Does anyone have the National's "Amadeus"?

Am I the only one that prefers Putting It Together to Side By Side By Sondheim? True, I did not get to see SBSBS with the original cast, but the recording and material selection pales in comparison to PIT. Of course, one came 20 years after the other, with then a further rewrite of PIT in the late-90s, which is actually my favorite version of any Sondheim revue. I mean, Sondheim On Sondheim was crap, but PIT is vastly entertaining with a fun concept of the dinner party with the two couples and the butler. The video is a delight, with four performers at the top of their game (Barrowman and Henshall have never been better; both are delightful and sexy). The Julie Andrews version had some bizarre song selections (“The Gun Song”? Really?) but it seems the powers that be got it right for the Burnett version. Did Sondheim devi$e the whole thing himself and pick the songs, etc.? I’ve always wondered that as I don’t believe anyone is given credit for putting it all together (excuse the pun).

[quote]Christ. Imagine being in quarantine for a month for the sake of some shitty Diana musical.

Sure, but another way to think about it... imagine being a theatre actor actually earning a living in the midst of this pandemic.

So if there is a good bootleg of the Gylenhaal Sunday, could someone post it? Thanks!

I bought a DVD of SITPWG from a bootlegger. Sorry I don't have a link.

R43, as far as I'm concerned, all of the Sondheim revues have been badly constructed, most definitely including SONDHEIM ON SONDHEIM.

Side by Side is infinitely superior to Putting It Together. I listened to PIT once and that was plenty.

R48, The 1998 Putting It Together is not the same as the Julie Andrews version... at all. It’s available on dvd and streaming. It’s quite enjoyable. Worth a watch.

Putting It Together.

Ruthie Henshall fucks up "More" by growling her way through it.

Ruthie growled her way through the entirety of CHICAGO. Like a bad imitation of Edward G Robinson.

Welcome to DL, R52/Ute Lemper!

WE SEE YOU WHITE SARAVA!

As requested...

[quote]As requested...

Thank you. I love those old commercials. They relied more on creativity than being slick.

Sweeney...

Sweeney with George...

R56 and they were creatively sequenced, shot and designed as commercials not just montages of footage. Angela singing “What happened then, well, that’s the play” in that dress isn’t a direct lift from the show-but makes great sense to promote the show. And enough directed straight to camera to make it engaging. I remembering going to Sweeney in college because that commercial sold me.

This was at the height of those Broadway commercials. Seeing this was thrilling.

And then, of course...

[quote]And then, of course...

How did they get away with this? ALW was always so touchy about his music being used. Initially, Forbidden Broadway had to use other music in their Phantom sequence.

Peter Pan Live at the Melonville War Memoriam Auditorium

A friend of mine saw that EVITA commercial way back when and thought Ms Lupone was singing, "Just a little torture, that's what I need." Which was strangely apropos.

R64, that is not what the subtitles say.

[Quote] I bought a DVD of SITPWG from a bootlegger.

Was it a well-to-do, ugly bootlegger?

Thanks R60. I loved when that commercial came on! (Which seemed to be frequently iirc.)

Bob Gunton's head looks huge next to Lupone's!

[quote]How did they get away with this? ALW was always so touchy about his music being used. Initially, Forbidden Broadway had to use other music in their Phantom sequence.

I know that, in recent years, the laws have been interpreted in such a way that writers have a GREAT deal of latitude in parodying existing works, but honestly, I'm not sure if that would also cover using the music of a song as it was originally written. The way FORBIDDEN BROADWAY handles this is that they pay rights to use the entire songs, and then they change the lyrics. Maybe the people who created that INDIRA/EVITA spoof did the same, although I THINK ALW or the people who control the rights to his shows would still have the power to prohibit them from using the music if they wanted to. But I'm not sure about that, maybe someone else can tell us.

Taboo.

Litha with a TH.

Showgirl - Carol Channing.

Is that the movie where Carol Channing gives Kyle MacLachlan a lap dance and then later shouts, "I am not a whore!"

R69 Canadian fair use law gives protection for both parody and satire, US only parody; perhaps that gave SCTV more freedom whereas with Forbidden Broadway there was a chance of a legal challenge as to whether the songs strayed from being parody?

I didn't realise that was Andrea Martin in the Indira video until reading the comments.

It's interesting I had forgotten how Broadway used to advertise shows with commercials. Just like r59 I saw Sweeny in college because of the Angela and George commercial. I saw it so many times I finally said "Okay I need to see this damn show, that song is stuck in my head."

For those who say that none of the talent working on Broadway are real stars consider conceding the fact that Merman was known to the masses because they sold her to the masses just like Channing and others. These people appeared on every radio show and tv show they could and were talked and written about all the time. Broadway stars do not get this treatment anymore if they did they would be household names and some would be stars known to the mainstream. There just is not the same advertising or promoting Broadways shows or it's stars like there used to be.

Think about the number of movie stars that have been shoved down our throats in the last 20 years or so. We've had threads about it, names like Jake Gyllenhaal, Colin Farrell, Lily James, Emmea Stone, Jessica Chastain, all the Brat Pack, many other names I can't think of right now. The publicity machine determines who will be a star and some idiots in Hollywood decide who those names will be out of the talentless. Then they relentlessly bludgeon us with those people they choose shoehorning them into every type of movie they can until it becomes clear no body cares about or likes these people.

If Broadway used the same selling strategy that Hollywood does for it's shows, some stars would emerge. You can't be a star if most people have never heard of you.

Broadway doesn’t want to make stars. Producers want the show itself to be the star so it can run longer without having to survive the loss of its primary selling feature, since they can’t turn a profit in the first year anymore.

[quote]For those who say that none of the talent working on Broadway are real stars consider conceding the fact that Merman was known to the masses because they sold her to the masses just like Channing and others. These people appeared on every radio show and tv show they could and were talked and written about all the time.

What also helped in the 60s and 70s were variety shows. Ethel Merman did everything from The Judy Garland Show to The Carol Burnett Show to Sha Na Na to Hee Haw. Everyone knew who she was from variety shows.

[quote]Litha with a TH.

Umm, Liza is known for pronouncing her s's (and sometimes, I guess, z's) as SH, not as TH, dumbass.

[quote]It's interesting I had forgotten how Broadway used to advertise shows with commercials.

There are still TV commercials for Broadway shows. But you are right that there are far fewer outlets for Broadway stars on TV now than their used to be back in the day. And, yes the demise of the variety show years ago was a huge part of that.

Does anyone have the National's "All About Eve"?

There are still variety shows but they're different, like AGT. No place for Broadway. Also, there is a lot more choice so appearing on any number of shows won't get you the same attention as one performance on Ed Sullivan.

R78 You seem fun.

R79 Sure.

[Quote] Umm, Liza is known for pronouncing her s's (and sometimes, I guess, z's) as SH, not as TH, dumbass.

You're the dumbass. The show titles are often posted in a "disguised" fashion.

[quote][R79] Sure.

May the theater gods lighten your load and inscribe your name in the annals of musical heaven.

Shide by Shide by Shondheim!

R84 Wait until you've watched it

[quote][R84] Wait until you've watched it

I watched about 10 minutes of it. Jesus, this is going to be a slog, isn't it? Projections? What's that about?

[quote][R84] Wait until you've watched it

I watched about 10 minutes of it. Jesus, this is going to be a slog, isn't it? Projections? What's that about?

[quote]Projections? What's that about?

You gotta get a gimmick

I never trust the text.

And then Ivo used his similar magic on West Side Story....

So that's what black magic is....

[quote]I watched about 10 minutes of it. Jesus, this is going to be a slog, isn't it? Projections? What's that about?

Kind of makes you appreciate my version a bit more, doesn't it?

[quote]You're the dumbass. The show titles are often posted in a "disguised" fashion.

I know, but that's not how the show title is posted on YouTube. Somebody was trying to make a stupid joke about Liza's pronunciation of s's, but they couldn't even get it right, because they apparently can't hear the difference between "sh" and "th."

R94 All the party invites you must get.

[Quote] they apparently can't hear the difference between "sh" and "th."

Why dontcha write a song about it to help them with this affliction?

Ethel Merman became a huge Broadway star in the 1930s, long before television. Yes, she appeared on radio programs but Merman became a star because of her TALENT and charisma. She was also, oddly, nationally known but really only beloved by New Yorkers who actually went to the theater on a frequent basis back in the day....and, Merman became hugely popular because she was so powerful in live performances which didn't always translate well to camera.

Mary Martin become a major Broadway star in the 1940s, again, before television was important but you could argue she become a beloved icon because of her Peter Pan productions on television in the 50s.

Mary Martin was already a star from her earlier Broadway, film and radio performances but it was South Pacific that made her a megastar like Merman. Not Peter Pan. South Pacific was HUGE when it opened and gave Broadway its second Queen.

Those Sweeney and Evita commercials was great. Recent (10-15 years) TV spots don't seem as good. Is it because the shows are worse, or the commercials? When were the last good, memorable ones?

This playlist has several Broadway commercials. Not sure how they selected them -- some odd choices, but some other treasures.

The *one*...the *only*...

r100

thanks... Will there ever be a revival of They're playing our song? That commercial was cute

R102 - I can't imagine there ever would be. It's SO 70s. Has Encores done it?

They tried to get Sara Bareilles (sp?) to do it

Who's they?

Reprise did it, with Jason Alexander and Stephanie J. Block.

Sara Bareilles should stay far away from Broadway; blech.

It's just one of those "of its time" musicals...like Hollywood/Ukraine.

[quote]It's just one of those "of its time" musicals...like Hollywood/Ukraine.

Hollywood/Ukraine is not "of its time". It could still successfully be produced today.

Hollywood/Ukraine would not work in a streaming era. No one cares about old Hollywood. It barely worked in the 70s.

But they care about old Broadway? It didn't work in the 70's.

[Quote] No one cares about old Hollywood.

Agreed.

42nd Street was in the 80s. They cared about Old Broadway.

[quote]Why dontcha write a song about it to help them with this affliction?

"It's Lisha with a 'sh,' not Litha with a 'th'...."

[quote]42nd Street was in the 80s. They cared about Old Broadway.

It's true. At first thought, it might seem shows that paid homage to older forms of entertainment might not "date" as much as shows from the '60s, '70s, or '80s that were set in their time, but in reality, shows like 42nd STREET and HOLLYWOOD/UKRAINE have definitely dated in the sense that, as time goes on, fewer and fewer people have any knowledge of or interest in really old movies. I haven't seen any figures, but I'll bet even the Marx Brothers are nowhere near as popular among young people nowadays as they were when they had their resurgence about 40 or 50 years ago, apparently due to their movies being screened at colleges.

Chicago is also a "throwback" musical.

[Quote] I'll bet even the Marx Brothers are nowhere near as popular among young people nowadays as they were when they had their resurgence about 40 or 50 years ago, apparently due to their movies being screened at colleges.

In this age of viral videos, memes, TikTok etc. things can come back around very quickly.

R65, That video says it's Lupone singing at the 1981 Tonys. She and the Evita Cast also sang at the 1980 Tonys when Evita won Best Musical.

Did she sing from Evita during two Tony Award shows?

I remember loving the commercial from The Wiz

Yes. The Buenos Aires was a section in a longer piece.

They sang “A New Argentina” the first time.

I think it was the "Year Of The Woman" or something and they were highlighting past Best Actress winners. If you’ve seen that clip of Angela singing a song from Sweeney (By The Sea or Worst Pies) to an actor that isn’t Len or George, I believe that’s from the same segment.

This was a lovely tribute...

Wait. They're making a film of "Dear Evan Hansen" and Ben Platt is playing the lead? Are they using the same technology Scorcese used in "The Irishman"?

The Oregon Shakespeare Festival did the Marx Bros.' "Animal Crackers" and "The Cocoanuts" in 2011 and 2014. Both were beautifully produced, hilarious, and the house was packed when I saw them. So I think there's still an audience for Hollywood/Ukraine. (Also, it's best done in a small theatre, and it requires only two sets and no stars.) I saw the original -- the first half was charming and clever and the second side-splitting. Kudos to Tommy Tune and the cast.

College film programs and revival houses didn't cause the 30s/40s nostalgia craze of the late 60s through early 80s. They played those films because people had rediscovered them on TV late shows and afternoon movies.

Falsettoland.

Eugenius.

Much Ado About Nothing.

r97 you queens keep deluding yourselves about Merman, she was loud and the only game in town. She got far on the charisma that being loud can get you, not much talent in that.

[quote]Broadway doesn’t want to make stars. Producers want the show itself to be the star so it can run longer without having to survive the loss of its primary selling feature, since they can’t turn a profit in the first year anymore.

This holds for music as well, not as much talent gets pushed because the producers want to keep the money at the top and away from the talent. Make the artists as interchangeable as possible so you can boot them when their pay day becomes too expensive. This is killing entertainment.

R129, Merman was a skilled comedienne with a fantastic, thrilling voice and a unique personality. She was a hugely effective Broadway star. So she's not to your taste and yo don't appreciate her. That's show biz.

Another classic Broadway show commercial

No one, but no one, has been talking about an Oscar nom for Judy Kaye in “Diana.”

[quote]Merman was a skilled comedienne with a fantastic, thrilling voice and a unique personality.

This is true. I remember that, years ago, Merman and Mark Hamill were guests on a talk show and, when Hamill came out, he really praised Merman for her comic acting in IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD, a movie in which she doesn't sing a note.

[quote]No one, but no one, has been talking about an Oscar nom for Judy Kaye in “Diana.”

I wouldn't think so, seeing as how it's a Broadway show, not a movie.

R133 & R134 It was a joke, of course---how could anyone think that was meant seriously? And Netflix shows have earned loads of Oscar nominations---where have you been?

Says you r131 and you're nobody.

R136 And yet, you are still talking about her today.

I think the popularity of TCM would make an argument for Day in Hollywood/Night in the Ukraine as a viable show for a small theatre, regional, community (if you have the rappers)—the tropes of the first act songs and numbers would be familiar to young and middle aged audiences and they show Marx Bros films all the time. I saw the original and the people I went with “got” the second act and found the spoofs in the first act familiar enough.

R136, yes I am a nobody but I saw Merman perform live and I have starred in a Broadway show.

[Quote] I have starred in a Broadway show.

Ryan Idol?

138 here: tappers not rappers (though The Production Code is a kind of rap avant la lettre).

R115, Chicago was very much intended as a critique of the 1970s. "In 50 years or so/It's gonna change, y'know/But oh it's heaven/Nowadays" was the final underline. In the production I saw, Roxy and Velma caught each other's eye and laughed after "y'know".

I guess you could see it as a throwback to the 70s.

Are you forgetting that CHICAGO dates back the 1920s? (Not to mention the Ginger Rogers movie in the 1940s).

Andrew Lloyd Webber taking the Covid vaccine.

Is Patti LuPone handling the needle?

I hope it doesn't kill him.

Surprising that his arms are so spindly.

Is it really though, R146?

R142, but that was why it failed. Fosse tried to analogize several things that made no sense then and no sense now when we're talking about the 70s However, it made perfect sense after the Rodney King riots (the show was cancelled for a few performances in Long Beach because of it) and OJ.

Chicago was extremely apposite in the 70s, which was extremely permissive, extremely violent in America, and also the decade in which the press started out on the long journey to what is now Fox News and reality TV. Both of which concerns feature largely in Chicago. I'm sure you'd find plenty of cases less celebrated but equally heinous as OJ's in relation to the justice system in the 70s, too.

Also, in what universe was Chicago a failure?

And yes, Rose at R143, I do realise it was set in the 1920s.

[Quote] And yes, Rose at [R143], I do realise it was set in the 1920s.

Not just set... "Crime/Scandal does pay" - none of that is new.

Why has Bennett's "Scandal" never been attempted. I've heard from a few people that it just wasn't a very good show and although Bennett still had his fans, I've also heard that his staging and choreography weren't what was advertised. We've heard snippets and Kleban's work is not impressive. Nonetheless, I think it would be interesting to see what would have been his final Broadway show.

Does anyone know anything about Kicks: The Showgirl Musical? Alan Menken and Tom Eyen. Did it ever get done anywhere or workshopped properly?

R152 There were a few workshops and/or readings of Kicks. If I remember correctly, Stephen Bogardus was in one of them. Not a font of information here, but it's all I got.

For the life of me, r151, I cannot remember what Swoosie wrote about it in her memoir.

KICKS!

Thanks, r153 and r155. What a fun song!

Hated the shoes but the performance was fun.

“There’s Gonna Be A SCANDAL... On Broadway!”

[quote]Fosse tried to analogize several things that made no sense then and no sense now when we're talking about the 70s However, it made perfect sense after the Rodney King riots (the show was cancelled for a few performances in Long Beach because of it) and OJ.

R148, CHICAGO is mostly a pointed satire of a culture in which criminals can become celebrities, which of course applies to OJ (although in that case, of course, he was already a celebrity before his crime, and that crime didn't happen till quite a few years after CHICAGO the musical). But it has absolutely nothing to do with Rodney King or those riots, so I don't know where you got that from. I'm really surprised you think CHICAGO makes no sense, I don't think what it's about is difficult to grasp.

By the way, years before CHICAGO the musical (but not before the original play), ANYTHING GOES also satirized (lightly) the celebrity criminal culture.

Is Paul Simon's "The Capeman" worth a revisal by some producer? I know it flopped pretty hard (a three-month run), but it has some great songs. Original direction and choreography by Mark Morris and sets by Bob Crowley. I'm sure being in that barn called the Marquis didn't help.

R159, the point was that the LBCLO production had performances cancelled because of the riots. No similarity? Corruption, the guilty go free, mass publicity? It was the perfect show at the perfect time. Even Reinking said something like that.

[quote]Is Paul Simon's "The Capeman" worth a revisal by some producer?

I saw it originally on Broadway and I don't think so. I thought the show was incredibly boring. It's not a compelling story: Hispanic teenage gang member kills innocent white teenagers who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, goes to jail as an arrogant teenager, comes out a humble old man. They're trying to push a redemption message but it misses the mark by a mile.

[quote]R9 She just stood there silently giving him the glare of death before saying slowing "I'M. NOT. BARBRA." He didn't interrupt again.

Did Kazan ever do an album [italic]My Name is (Not) Barbra[/italic] ?

The Capeman is one of those shows that plays infinitely better on CD than onstage. The songs just aren't theatrical in any way. And the book is probably unfixable because the story is just not that interesting.

The most distinctive element of the original production were the sets. They were both very cool and often inappropriately funny.

A Midsummer Night's Dream with Hurt, Baranski, Rush.

Cinderella with Julie Andrews.

Messiah - staged.

The problem with Scandal was that the timing was wrong. It was about sexual freedom but they abandoned the whole thing because it was early in the AIDS era and wasn't exactly the message to send at that time. And Kelban had noting to do with it. Jimmy Webb did the score, and the few songs I heard were great. Don't know if the book worked but I'm sure they would have fixed it if they kept at it.

[quote]Why has Bennett's "Scandal" never been attempted.

I've heard there's a non-pro shot video Bennett had made late in rehearsals. It must be tightly held if it exists. I've never met anyone who has it and nothing has ever leaked to the net that I know of.

[quote]Cinderella with Julie Andrews.

Has this ever been colorized? In the last decade, there seems to be a push to colorize episodes of I Love Lucy. I just wondered if any attempt was ever made to colorize it?

Who needs "Scandal" when we have "Scandalous"?

"Cinderella" was originally broadcast from New York live and in color, but only the black-and-white kinescope survives. Even when it was originally shown, the West Coast saw only the B&W version.

NO revised Capeman, please. It has gorgeous music, but Paul Simon burned through three directors in large part because he refused to bend to Broadway's conventions. He insisted he was going to show everyone a new way. Well, he didn't. Many of the songs don't end. He wrote fade-outs for the Broadway. So much for a big finish. But as the music washed over you, it was often stunning. Had he done it at the Delacorte as a contemporary oratorio, it would have been the biggest thing of the season. But he didn't. And it certainly wasn't.

As for Side by Side by Sondheim, the role of the narrator is a most interesting feature. Cyril Ritchard did it in one company. Burr Tillstrom and Kukla and Ollie did it on Broadway. I saw a tour with Hermione Gingold who had also done it on Broadway. If anyone could be better than Gingold, maybe it was Ritchard. But only maybe. I don't recall if she performed, "Liaisons." She certainly performed, "I Never Do Anything Twice." I will never see that song performed better than that. Never. Ever. The narrator is a nice feature.

Did she take off her wig?

R173 Ned Sherrin is side eyeing the fuck out of your comment.

[quote]Burr Tillstrom and Kukla and Ollie did it on Broadway.

How dare they break up the act and work with other artists. I *MADE* Kukla and Ollie.

I was so prepared to hate that r167, but it is absolutely lovely.

R165, one of my first jobs in NYC was with NYSF and I was in charge of tickets for the park. I must have seen that almost every night. Hurt's entrance was really great and Rush and Baranski were perfect. The guy who was Lysander, I forget his name, was HAF and a big homo. I read that he died a year or two ago.

Fuck Ned Sherrin. Who cares about Ned Sherrin?

Yawn.

Will Spiderman every be revived?

Everything was so over the top. I wonder how a stripped down version would do. The songs were pretty boring though.

Maybe Encores?

Will Spiderman every be revived?

Everything was so over the top. I wonder how a stripped down version would do. The songs were pretty boring though.

Maybe Encores?

[quote]Will Spiderman every be revived?

I doubt that it will be at the top of anyone's wish list when/if Broadway finally reopens.

Will Kern’s “Sally” ever be revived?

R170, unfortunately, I'm sure the quality of the kinescope of CINDERELLA with Julie Andrews is far too poor to be successfully colorized, as compared to the pristine I LOVE LUCY episodes.

r173 = gaysplaining

The Capeman is one of several musicals where Jerry Zaks replaced the director...I think they were all flops. The Capeman, The Civil War, Addams Family, Sister Act...Any others? I know he wasn't always credited.

David Birney is kind of gay and kind of hot at r165. Always crashed on him a bit. And I heard he was decent as a replacement Salieri.

crushed , not crashed

[quote]By the way, years before CHICAGO the musical (but not before the original play), ANYTHING GOES also satirized (lightly) the celebrity criminal culture.

More recently, Willdhorn's BONNIE & CLYDE was also about how the media makes heroes/stars out of criminals/outlaws/thugs.

Incidentally, if they revived A DAY IN HOLLYWOOD/A NIGHT IN THE UKRAINE, do you suppose they'll remove the "the" because Ukrainians hate it being called "the Ukraine" for some reason.

[quote]Incidentally, if they revived A DAY IN HOLLYWOOD/A NIGHT IN THE UKRAINE, do you suppose they'll remove the "the" because Ukrainians hate it being called "the Ukraine" for some reason.

No, because it throws off the rhythm of the title. Both titles have six syllables.

I was looking at the information for "A Day In Hollywood/A Night In The Ukraine." They opened in the Golden Theatre, but only played there for one month before moving to the Royale Theatre for the rest of the run. The Royale has approximately 200 more seats than the Golden. Doesn't it seem odd to move after only playing one month? Why do you think that was?

[quote] Why do you think that was?

200 more seats, as you note. Hollywood/Ukraine was not a huge show, but it still was larger than most tenants at the Golden. It's possible that the show was booked into the Golden, something closed at the Royale, and producer Alexander Cohen took the opportunity to move to a larger theatre.

It's not usual, but there are all kinds of reasons it could have happened, r192. R193 has a reasonable explanation and there are others. It's a rabbit hole for you to explore at your leisure.

For 1600 extra seats a week to sell, sell, sell.

There's a reason it's called show BUSINESS!

Graham Norton was the warm-up act for Liza’s concerts at the Albert Hall in London in 2002.

He quipped: ‘Is Ned Sherrin here tonight? Because he never misses an European opening.’

Thanks for posting “Cinderella.” I have it, but it’s so wonderful, I watched most of it. My whole family watched it together, on Sunday evening, March 31, 1957. We didn’t have a color set. (My parents were always waiting for it to be “perfected.”) So the quality of this kinescope is about what our reception was like. I’m still astounded at all those vertical sets, with so many narrow stairs. I bet they required a lot of rehearsal!

Curiously, I’ve always noticed a glitch in Cypher’s performance. On an earlier VHS of this I got years ago, Cypher sang his reprise of “Do I Love You?” so fast, he had to wait for the orchestra to catch up. A friend later told me the copy I’d seen was an official film R&H had made of the dress rehearsal. Even on this recording, Cypher still makes a face when he goes slightly too fast in the reprise, but he covers far better.

I remember hearing his mistakes in this live presentation affected his later career. I later saw him on Broadway in the original “Man of La Mancha,”“The Great White Hope,” and “Big.” So he kept working. “Cinderella” live must have been stressful for him as a virtual unknown at the time. There’s an interview with him as a bonus on the DVD release.

Also in the "Do I Love You?" reprise, Cypher cuts off Dorothy Stickney (as the Queen) before she can say, "Or is she beautiful because you love her?" The camera cuts to her because she's about to speak, but she doesn't get the chance. In the interview with Cypher on the DVD release, he says he was in tears in his dressing room afterward, because he loved Dorothy Stickney so much and felt horrible about what he had done. She was gracious and basically said, "Don't worry about it."

Also, in the scene in which Cinderella is fleeing the ball at midnight, Cypher, going after her, trips while running up the stairs. (Maybe all those stairs on a cramped unit set weren't such a good idea after all.) It sort of works for the character, because he's desperate to catch Cinderella, but it clearly was unintentional.

R199 is right on with all his comments and I'll add that the studio was entirely too small but was all that was available then for a color broadcast, which is why it was designed as two stories which led to staging mishaps.

LOCK ‘IM UP!

The studio being so small was why the costumes were weirdly put in Empire style with narrow skirts rather than panniers or hoop skirts. There was no other way for the chorus to have room to dance.

R64 I didn't know what she was singing....only that she scared the shit out of me, leaning into the camera like that, like she's going to beat me up.

R134, I have a recording of that 1978 Merv Griffin Show. Ethel was on to promote her new autobiography "Merman".

Who knew Cinderella was the original 'Spiderman: Turn Off The Show'.

[quote]The studio was entirely too small but was all that was available then for a color broadcast, which is why it was designed as two stories which led to staging mishaps.

Thanks, I've always wondered why the sets in that CINDERELLA are so tall and the steps SO narrow. Not sure why they couldn't just bring the color TV cameras to a larger studio, but I guess maybe telecasting in color rather than black and white involves more than just the cameras?

[quote]The studio being so small was why the costumes were weirdly put in Empire style with narrow skirts rather than panniers or hoop skirts. There was no other way for the chorus to have room to dance.

It never occurred to me that this was an issue, as I really didn't think there was any great effort to make it clear that the action was supposed to be taking place in any specific period of history, just sometime a long time ago.

In professional design terms, r206, it's called oldy-timey.

Fascinating that The NY Times has not done any follow up on The Rudin story. It's a little like the Garth story. The fraud was obvious to everyone, but everyone looked away because the money was flowing.

The Lysander in the William Hurt Midsummer Night's Dream posted above is Kevin Conroy. You might recall him from that somewhat long ago Wendy Wasserstein play Eastern Standard. It was a total bore, but Wasserstein's pal Frank Rich gave it a rave and kept it going for a while.

Contrary to what is said above, Kevin Conroy is still alive.

I'm more interested in the fact that Emmanuel Lewis played a fairy in that Midsummer production. Did he call Helena "Ma'am?"

A few weeks ago, I stumbled upon this doc about the making of The Capeman. I thought it was pretty interesting, and it also made me wish I'd seen the show, primarily because the music really is gorgeous. But yes, Paul Simon comes off as an asshole.

Thanks, R209, but one correction -- EASTERN STANDARD was written by Richard Greenberg, not Wendy Wasserstein.

[quote]Fascinating that The NY Times has not done any follow up on The Rudin story. It's a little like the Garth story. The fraud was obvious to everyone, but everyone looked away because the money was flowing.

It does seem like there might be some similar aspects to the story. I remember that Drabinsky had some HUGE ads in the Times for his production of CANDIDE. I know how much those cost (or used to cost), and I wondered where that much money for advertising could possibly be coming from. This was years before his cooking of the books was revealed.

R212: I got my plays mixed up. I meant The Heidi Chronicles, not Eastern Standard. Both are from 1989.

And Eastern Standard ran six months, so some theatergoers must have liked it, contrary to what I said.

Just to avoid confusion, Kevin Conroy was in Eastern Standard, not the Heidi play.

And, to be fair, Wasserstein wrote also The Sisters Rosenzweig, which many people really did like, though I thought Madeline Kahn at her elfin best was an important asset in its success.

R209 Kevin Conroy is best known as the voice of most of the animated incarnations of Batman/Bruce Wayne for most of the last 30 years, beginning with Batman: The Animated Series in 1992.

What is there to report about Rudin? Every interested party has certainly been instructed by his or her attorney not to comment 'due to on-going litigation.' As court filings are made, the Times will undoubtedly be reading them.

There will be more to report after the case file is more fully developed.

In his book of collected reviews, Rich said he didn't review plays written by his friends, including Wasserstein. I'm not sure if there were exceptions he didn't mention...

R213 Eastern Standard was one of the worst plays I ever saw; a lugubrious and empty bore. The night I was unfortunate enough to see it a man in the third row fell asleep, VERY loudly snoring and couldn't be woken up. The most (actually only) entertaining aspect of the evening.

[quote]Kevin Conroy is best known as the voice of most of the animated incarnations of Batman/Bruce Wayne for most of the last 30 years, beginning with Batman: The Animated Series in 1992.

I remember Kevin Conroy playing Steven Carrington's love interest Bart Fallmont in several episodes of "Dynasty." He and Steven were still a couple in t he 1991 "Dynasty" reunion movie, but Bart was played by a different actor, and Steven had turned back into Al Corley, despite the plastic surgery that had made him look like Jack Coleman.

[quote]Steven had turned back into Al Corley, despite the plastic surgery that had made him look like Jack Coleman.

I KNEW that shit had to wear off over time!

R213 Eastern Standard ran only a little over two months (three if you count previews.)

[quote]I KNEW that shit had to wear off over time!

Plastic surgery isn't something you do just once, R219.

Kevin Conroy was adorable at age 20, but he sure didn't age well.

Top Girls with Lesley Manville.

Steambath with Bill Bixby and Valerie Perrine.

Top Girls is a slog to sit through, no matter who's in it.

^Lesley is so young.

Whatever happened to Valerie Perrine?

She has Parkinsons.

So sad.

This just started. With everything else going on, I just don't know if I'm able to put up with Rhoda for the next two hours.

God she was fabulous...

Eartha...

Thanks to all the posters that have shared links to shows. This has helped me fight boredom, especially on the weekends. If anyone could post a link to the West End 42nd Street, I would love him forever.

Only one poster.

And it's terrible. No sense of American musical comedy style at all.

I was surprised at how much I liked it when it was shown on PBS. I wasn't expecting much but thought it was fine.

It's pretty bad, style-wise. And SO shouty. Just skip to the end and the giant staircase.

^ The guy playing Julian does not have a single fucking idea.

For absolutely no reason...

The guy playing Julian Marsh is Tom Lister and he's fucking gorgeous. Who cares if he sings weirdly?

The guy playing Julian Marsh is Tom Lister and he's fucking gorgeous. Who cares if he sings weirdly?

He should have stayed on the farm.

I don’t know about “fucking gorgeous” but I did find him a sexy Julian.

Try to find the professionally filmed original Broadway production (though not the entire original Broadway cast) that was filmed for Japanese television. (I think it was on tour over there or maybe in the U.S.?) Anyway, much better than this revival and with at least something of a clue about playing American Musical Comedy.

Six Characters In Search of an Author with John Hurt and Brian Cox.

r244 I have the house cam of the Asian tour, was it actually professionally shot?

Jeremy Jordan is neat.

R245 But who got first billing?

The chorus twink who is filling in for Ashley is pretty bland.

Can someone post Barbershop Chronicles?

That and Midsummer were the best of NT Live.

Tony Awards to be held digitally this fall:

And The Boys in the Band drops on Netflix September 30th.

What is the point of holding the Tony Awards for a season where there are hardly any shows to choose from? And since Bway will likely not be operational again until the Spring (at best) then why not just combine two halves of two seasons into one?

R253, asking committee members to extend their commitment and asking voters to vote on productions they saw two years earlier is not really practical.

[quote] [R253], asking committee members to extend their commitment and asking voters to vote on productions they saw two years earlier is not really practical.

Neither is voting on two severely truncated seasons. Suspend voting and have the nominating committee choose the winners. Or make the filmed versions for the TOFT collection available to stream on a private site for Tony voters. There are ways around having to hold a ceremony for a not terribly good set of shows. Do we really need to reward Moulin Rouge and Slave Play, because that's all this is going to be.

R255, so exclude productions not recorded for TOFT?

That would eliminate at least half the shows.

R250 Would have to upload to my drive, which is full, so no.

SMILE!

This, and this alone, will save Broadway.

[quote] Do we really need to reward Moulin Rouge and Slave Play, because that's all this is going to be.

Why else do you think they're doing this? Referring to the latter, obviously.

Had The Lehman Trilogy actually reopened?

Isn't there also a Japanese tape of Jerome Robbins Broadway? I've seen portions taped from the side but I think one actually aired on Japanese TV as they were one of the investors in the show.

is Company eligible for Tonys this year? If not, will this finally top Patti over the edge after the Hollywood "snub"

Miss Nancy Kelly...

[quote]This, and this alone, will save Broadway.

If you want to look like a genetically challenged duck.

DUCKS...now and forever

R260, not necessarily. I think if anything could take it from "Slave Play," it would be "The Inheritance."

Death Of A Salesman or Hamlet could premiere this year and Slave Play would still win.

King Lear and Madea could premiere this year and Slave Play would still win.

Let every billboard in hell eternally proclaim: Desireé Armfeldt in The Wild Duck!

[quote]is Company eligible for Tonys this year?

No, because it never opened. It played a week and a half of previews. Also, the eligibility cut-off date for this year's awards is Feb. 19, 2020, which means that "West Side Story" and "Girl From the North Country," even though they had openings, also aren't eligible.

[quote]No, because it never opened. It played a week and a half of previews. Also, the eligibility cut-off date for this year's awards is Feb. 19, 2020, which means that "West Side Story" and "Girl From the North Country," even though they had openings, also aren't eligible.

I wonder if they'd consider, just for this year only, waiving a lot of those rules -- i.e., let a show compete that only played previews but never officially opened (by saying the first performance was in effect "opening night"). If so, that could open the door for more shows to be eligible for awards. There is basically no precedent for a situation like this, so they could almost make up any rules that they want, couldn't they?

Speaking of Company, I just watched W1A which has Jonathan Bailey playing the bitchy Personal Assistant.

Also in W1A is Monica Dolan who was in the National's production of "All About Eve".

Jonathan Bailey also plays a bitchy real estate agent in the short series Crashing on Netflix (NOT the HBO series with the same name). He's very good, and the show, written by Phoebe Waller-Bridge of Fleabag fame, is very funny (she's in it as well). I've watched it a couple of times.

And Monica Dolan just turned up in the 2018 version of Vanity Fair I'm watching on Amazon Prime. I swear there are only about 50 British actors and they just rotate from stage to TV to film (I'm not complaining since so many of them are so good).

Yes, Crashing is a good series. Too bad it didn't run longer. And I agree r274, there are a few British actors who rotate through all the mediums and many of them are top notch talent who put American actors to shame.

Jonty Bailey is dreamy

I like Smile's score....

I worked on Smile. There was a lot good about it.

R278 Did you meet Howard Ashman?

Smile the musical suffers from being nowhere near as great as the movie. Yet, no one saw the movie or remembers it so there's that.

It has a cult following, r280. Wasn't it a problem of trying to balance the tone of the film vs a feel good Broadway musical?

Miss Feldon

Also, like A Chorus Line, it was basically "I hope I get it, I hope I get it!"

Wait, they're not even going to let shows that legitimately opened this season compete?? That's fucking crazy. To leave out The Girl From North Country is ridiculous.

Whoever said it upthread is correct- this is all so they can give Slave Play the Tony.

I just watched that Broadway on Showtime production of Gemini with Scott Baio. Ye Gods! Is the play really that bad or was this production really poorly cast, acted and directed? I know Anne DeSalvo and Danny Aiello were in the original production in NYC (and both won Obies) but everyone in this is varying degrees of terrible. The younger cast (with the exception of John Cassisi, who is decent) just completely fades into the scenery. And Sheree North is so busy screaming her lines that I couldn't understand half of what she said.

Is this just a really terrible production or is it the play?

NBC looking to revitalize Broadway with splashy primetime special:

[quote]R230 With everything else going on, I just don't know if I'm able to put up with Rhoda for the next two hours. — Miss Nancy Kelly, bringing Moss Mabry realness

Why did Nancy Kelly’s career go straight down the shitter?

Well, this sucks. The Albery Theatre (where Dear Evan Hansen was playing) has had its front of house littered with tables for a next door pub.

What’s so awful about that? The theatre's not in use, the pub is trying to move people outside. What it represents is kinda sad, I get that. But practically speaking, it seems like a good idea. Provided, of course, they’re legally allowed to use the space.

The Albery was renamed as the Noel Coward Theatre in 2006, R288.

And the the replies to that tweet are ridiculous. Performances of DEH aren't resuming anytime soon and the pub next to it is tiny - who shouldn't they maximise the use of the pavement? And I imagine that the pub will have to pay for the use of that space. Deflont Mackintosh will generating more income from those tables than they will from DEH for at least another six months.

Agreed that it sucks r284 but there’s no arrangement that would 100% work. Not enough people (nominators or voters) saw some of the more recent openings. But I sure as shit wish Slave Play wasn’t a shoo-in. It will win for the wrong reasons and he will be impossible since he already thinks he knows everything about everything

GEMINI hasn't aged well. I saw it in its original run and there was far too much screaming even then. Still there was nuance to the performances. Casting Scott Baio as the queer kid is, well, counterintuitive . . .

[quote]Casting Scott Baio as the queer kid is, well, counterintuitive.

Casting Scott Baio is counterintuitive.

You can cast Scott Baio as Chachi or as an arrogant male whore. That is all.

The Tonys must be handed out so that Lois Smith can be given hers. That is reason enough for this digital exercise. She has earned it and deserves it.

Is there a bootleg of Groundhog Day that someone could link to? All my searches have come up empty.

Thanks in advance.

Yes I was interacting with Howard every day. He was very nice and congenial but was on edge as opening night approached. There was one time I think I pissed him off about a lyric that had an incorrect reference. The audience consensus was that it didn't know whether to be light and fluffy or dark and cynical. I thought it did both successfully but maybe I was too close to it. Great score, choreography, casting, physical production...

[quote]NBC looking to revitalize Broadway with a splashy primetime special

Like this NBC special from 1953?

Is R241 the same poster who created the "Danny Kaye is sexy!" thread?

Just wondering.

Lemme tell ya, r287...

R287 Because - at least judging from The Bad Seed film -- she was a TERRIBLE actress. (Though she did win a Tony for it and later got to replace in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf on Broadway, so who knows?)

[quote]I wonder if they'd consider, just for this year only, waiving a lot of those rules -- i.e., let a show compete that only played previews but never officially opened (by saying the first performance was in effect "opening night"). If so, that could open the door for more shows to be eligible for awards. There is basically no precedent for a situation like this, so they could almost make up any rules that they want, couldn't they?

They could do that. They could also make a major change and decide that, this season, the Tonys will only be voted on by the members of the nominating committee who have already seen the shows. But the problem there is, that might end up being VERY few people in the cases of some shows -- especially those that opened right before the shutdown, like GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY and WEST SIDE STORY. The fact that those two shows have been ruled ineligible (for that reason) reinforces my opinion that there is almost no point in doing the Tonys now, rather than waiting till the spring of 2021 and combining two half-seasons into one -- assuming more shows will be able to open in the spring of '21, which I dearly hope will turn out to be the case.

That Jonathan Bailey performance from THE LAST FIVE YEARS is really good. Thanks, R276.

Nah, they won't do that. This whole charade is to placate the BIPOC theater whiners who decided to join the pissing contest even though theater is more than inclusive.

To be fair, r301, she really wasn't any more theatrical in the movie than the others. I'd blame LeRoy, who didn't have the actors calibrate their performances for the screen. And you have to admit that the over-the-top performances make the film more fun.

Did Encores ever explore SMILE? Might be a good prospect for them. Certainly more interesting than a lot of their other choices.

Is the show set in period (the 70s)? Was it on when it was on Bway in the 80s? It could be really fun as a period-specific piece.

'80s, r305....

[quote]To be fair, [R301], she really wasn't any more theatrical in the movie than the others. I'd blame LeRoy, who didn't have the actors calibrate their performances for the screen.

SOME of the other actors in THE BAD SEED are as broadly theatrical as Kelly's, but not Heckart. She's brilliant in it, somehow managing to rise above the script, the direction, the ridiculous performances of some of the others.

[quote}And you have to admit that the over-the-top performances make the film more fun.

"More fun" as a laughably grotesque camp-fest, but since the movie was (presumably) intended to be deadly serious, I think that's kind of a problem. Similar situation to MOMMIE DEAREST :-)

I'd still blame LeRoy and the Production Code for that, r307.

The original ending of The Bad Seed in the novel and the play is that the mother poisons them both. The mother dies but Rhoda lives and everyone feels so sorry for her....

I remember when I first watched the BAD SEEED about ten years ago. It was so comical and ridiculous when 8-year-old Rhoda went to the lake at night in the middle of a thunderstorm, just to retrieve the stupid medal, and got struck by lightning, as if God was smiting her for her sins. I about fell out of my chair, laughing my ass off. Don't get me started on that curtain call. XD

[quote] Casting Scott Baio is counterintuitive.

So is calling gays the q-word, which is proof that casting him in such a role changed nothing in reality.

R309, The mother poisons them both in the movie, also. The difference is that the play ends with the revelation that little Rhoda survived and no one can understand why the mother would poison such a sweet child. The movie tacks on the ridiculous ending in which Rhoda is killed by divine retribution in the form of a lightning bolt. Because in 1956 Hollywood, a murderer must be punished, even if the killer is a child.

A murderer HAD to be punished. It was part of the Production Code rules.

As for [italic]Gemini[/italic], there were two filmed productions. The Baio one was a taped TV production for Showtime in 1982. There was a movie based on it called [italic]Happy Birthday Gemini[/italic] two years earlier with Madeline Kahn and Rita Moreno.

Production Code

I saw SMILE twice in Baltimore. It was a really strong show, and in some ways, way ahead of its time. The core idea was how idealized women and beauty pageants were a male concept imposed on girls and women and they suffered/struggled from this. The best line of the show was when the hilarious jaded choreographer turned to the car-dealer owner guy running the pageant and said "You know the only real Young American Miss around here is you." Brilliant. Rumor was always that Michael Bennett had showed up in Baltimore and patched up a number or two. Is that true?

I recall that line being in the movie, r316. Does Brenda get shot in the musical?

Quicker and more efficient than the Chair...

The Bad Seed play has some talk of homosexuality that isn't in the screen version, and makes it clear that Leroy the handyman is more of a perv. Mervyn LeRoy really was on autopilot with his direction. It's a wonderful movie and it was taken seriously at the time (all those Oscar noms for the acting) but it would be even better if it were more cinematic.

The play ends on that foreboding note, that Rhoda survives (i.e. good dies and evil lives on). That's chilling.

It's interesting how our society has shifted. When The Bad Seed first came on the scene, audiences sympathized with Christine. Now they root for Rhoda.

Plenty of literary critics say "the bad seed" is William March, the author of the original novel, writing about his homosexuality. Others say Rhoda represents a "master race." It's always been interesting to me how female-driven it is. The men are all gone (Christine's husband and father), or milquetoasts (Mr. Daigle), or idiots (Emory).

Also, I've never known of a production that brings out the Florida/southern aspect. Of course, Florida and the south are two different things, but still. It says in the script it takes place in a suburb of Tallahassee.

There have been two TV remakes of The Bad Seed and they are both slogs to sit though. It really needs that histrionic, over-the-top approach to make the material entertaining.

The feature film version of GEMINI with Madeleine Kahn....

How could this NOT have been a hit?

(I actually saw it on late night TV years ago.... it's unwatchably bad.)

Would The Bad Seed work as a campy musical like what was done with Reefer Madness?

That’s pretty much what Ruthless is.

Oh, here's the more refined ad campaign.

The film version of Gemini didn't get much of a release and got bad reviews. I don't even think it opened in South Florida, where I grew up. I was only a kid, but I read the movie section of the newspaper religiously.

It showed up on cable in mid-81. We were in the sticks so we were not wired for proper cable. Instead we had ON-TV. I had just discovered Young Frankenstein on the channel so my family and I watched Happy Birthday, Gemini, and we laughed at Madeline Kahn and the Italian stereotypes and we all ignored the gay storyline while I feigned disinterest.

Yes, r323, but crossed with Gypsy.

What if [italic]Gypsy[/italic] and [italic]Follies[/italic] had a baby?

Gemini was deceptive. They drew people in by showing the best bits in the commercial. Then when you bought your ticket and saw the show you realized you had been ripped off that you had already seen the best of the show which was:

The mother smacking the son and saying, “Take human bites.”

And the girlfriend saying “I’m not hungry, I’ll just pick” and then doing a sight gag of slurping half a plate of spaghetti.

That’s it. That’s the show.

Little Tina Denmark...

I miss the days when off-Broadway had silly shows like Ruthless and the Howard Crabtree shows. They were fun! When was the last time we saw a show like that?

[quote]The mother poisons them both in the movie, also. The difference is that the play ends with the revelation that little Rhoda survived and no one can understand why the mother would poison such a sweet child. The movie tacks on the ridiculous ending in which Rhoda is killed by divine retribution in the form of a lightning bolt.

Works for me.

R328: I saw Gemini on Broadway and remember the two lines you noted as well as, "A fortune -- pissed away" said in a nasal honk. I have no memory of the context, but that line still makes me laugh (well, snicker). There was also something about the gay kid and a guy he had a crush on sharing a pup tent in the backyard? I don't know...

That line was in since the workshop and I think a direct quote from the movie. If Bennet had shown up in Baltimore I would have known.

Ruthless was wicked fun, and as stated, it was a mash-up of Gypsy and The Bad Seed with more than a bit of All About Eve thrown in.

In the late 1980s, Charles Busch did The Lady in Question Off-Broadway. It was a mash-up of various WWII films with evil Nazis, mainly The Mortal Storm. That's the one where Margaret Sullivan and James Stewart try to escape the Nazis on skis only to have her be shot and die in his arms. But also thrown into the mix was evil little Lotte. Andy Halliday played her as an outrageous parody of McCormack in The Bad Seed and he was priceless.

Isn't the currently licensed version of Smile substantially revised in places from what was done on Broadway? I've always heard the show was better out of town but I've never seen it in any of its incarnations.

Happy Birthday, Gemini.

Loved The Lady in Question.

The scene where the blonde swings in on a noose when that door opened still makes me laugh.

And yes, r334, Andy was priceless.

Thanks, R336. The guy playing the dad is kinda hot--who is/was he?

^ Robert Viharo. Was also in Dark Shadows AND Valley of the Dolls.

[quote]It's a wonderful movie and it was taken seriously at the time (all those Oscar noms for the acting) but it would be even better if it were more cinematic.

It's NOT a wonderful movie, it's a laughable piece of garbage, especially the script and the acting. The first time I saw it, maybe about 20 years ago, I was incredulous that anyone had ever taken it seriously. It's fascinating how some movies, etc. remain classics were others become so horribly dated, sometimes fairly quickly.

[quote]It's interesting how our society has shifted. When The Bad Seed first came on the scene, audiences sympathized with Christine. Now they root for Rhoda.

Oh, do they now? Are you writing from an insane asylum?

[quote]Plenty of literary critics say "the bad seed" is William March, the author of the original novel, writing about his homosexuality.

Where are you getting all this bullshit from? I can't believe any serious literary critic ever wrote that. And if it were true that March used the metaphor of a pathological murderer as a metaphor for his own homosexuality, that would mark him as a highly disturbed individual.

It would have been a good role fore Bernadette...

^

for

The great Georg Osterman did an "homage" to The Bad Seed called No Damn Good.

It featured Coco McPherson as the killer child.

That Bernie clip reminds me....

Any news on the revised, gay-male version of TELL ME ON A SUNDAY (BRUNCH)? I first read about it here. I'm really looking forward to it.

So, is it basically SONG & DANCE without DANCE? About a gay guy?

Bernstein - Wonderful Town with Audra.

The DVD of THE BAD SEED has a commentary track by Charles Busch.

I wonder if ALW and Don Black will update TELL ME ON A SUNDAY significantly and add/subtract even more material. The Denise Van Outen rewrite from 2006 is quite fun, but now very dated since it was so “of the moment” 15 years ago... the “trip-hop” plane song and “Speed Dating” would have to go unless they are planning on having it set in the mid-00s (which would be pointless). I must say that “Tyler King” and “Somewhere Sometime Someday” (or whatever) are both strong additions to the score and “English Girls” isn’t a patch on “Tire Tracks and Broken Hearts” so it isn’t missed in the least. I think Alice Ripley was announced to do this version in Australia but it never materialized. The version she did at the Kennedy Center around that time was the old one, I believe.

R349/Marti, you are aware it’s being rewritten for a gay male character, right?

Why is "Tell Me On A Sunday" being rewritten? Why does it have to be gender and sexual preference swapped?

Have the creative classes completely run out of new ideas?

Marti.

Bernadette, wringing every bit of angst out of it she possibly can.

And here is a look at the most recent rewrite with Denise Van Outen...

One more note about SMILE: If I recall correctly, it's Andy DeCarlo (husband of ex-pageant winner Brenda, played by Barbara Feldon) who gives the verbal smackdown to Big Bob (Bruce Dern). It works coming from Andy in the movie (he's the one who's predominantly against all the B.S. going on), but if Andy's not in the musical, then absolutely give it to the choreographer character.

And that girl had...

Why did Alan Menken pass on [italic]Smile[/italic]?

Considering this helped lead to [italic]The Little Mermaid[/italic], it's no coincidence Marvin Hamlisch already worked for Disney first. He composed Julie Budd's two songs in [italic]The Devil and Max Devlin[/italic], and before that or even [italic]A Chorus Line[/italic], he wrote the score for [italic]The World's Greatest Athlete[/italic].

[quote]R310 Don't get me started on that curtain call. XD

Exactly WHO’S idea was that??

Why/how didn't Hamlisch have more successful musicals after A CHORUS LINE?

THEY"RE PLAYING OUR SONG is fun. But JEAN SEBERG never even played in NY (as far as I know), and SMILE and GOODBYE GIRL bombed.

Then there's... this: [quote]Shortly before his death, Hamlisch finished scoring a musical theatre version of The Nutty Professor, based on the 1963 film. The show played in July and August 2012, at the Tennessee Performing Arts Center (TPAC) in Nashville, aiming for a Broadway run. The book is by Rupert Holmes, and the production was directed by Jerry Lewis.

Bette Davis wanted the role of the mother in The Bad Seed movie. Can you imagine the fit she threw when they told her they were going with the original Broadway cast?

[quote]The book is by Rupert Holmes, and the production was directed by Jerry Lewis.

I never miss a Jerry Lewis musical!

R357 Hamlisch had already composed a full score for "Smile" with the great and difficult lyricist Carolyn Leigh before Ashman came into the picture. There's a full demo of the Hamlisch-Leigh score, and it seems that Hamlisch composed all-new tunes to Ashman's lyrics.

R359 You left out one of Hamlisch's more interesting flops, "Sweet Smell of Success."

[quote] Bette Davis wanted the role of the mother in The Bad Seed movie. Can you imagine the fit she threw when they told her they were going with the original Broadway cast?

With a few notable exceptions, Warner Bros. went to bat for original Broadway cast members of shows they adapted for the screen more than other studios would have.

[quote]R353 Bernadette, wringing every bit of angst out of it she possibly can.

Excuse me, but I think it’s time for a real singer‘s take on it....

[bold]02:28 mark

[quote] Excuse me, but I think it’s time for a real singer‘s take on it....

Betty took over when Bernadette left the show. Someone in the know told me that Betty threw a fit when the producers told her they were closing the show. The show was closed in early November and Betty thought they were going to run through the end of the year to catch the Christmas tourists. Rumor has it, and I state that it's only rumor, that at one of the last performances, Betty gave a nasty curtain speech to the audience basically bad mouthing the decision.

Bette Davis in The Bad Seed ... it'd be the first and only time the audience would be fearing for RHODA's safety.

R366 = B.D. Hyman

R363 Well, Warners didn't exactly roll out the red carpet for Julie Andrews to recreate her Eliza in "My Fair Lady". But yeah, they have most of the original casts of "Damn Yankees" (except for subbing Tab Hunter for Stephen Douglass) and "Pajama Game" subbing Doris Day for Janis Paige, among other musicals.

That's why I said "exceptions."

[quote]Bette Davis wanted the role of the mother in The Bad Seed movie.

By 1956, wasn't Bette a bit long in the tooth to be playing the mother of an 8-year-old?

She could have played her own children's grandmother.

I think it's funny in the trivia section of The Bad Seed that it says they had to make the girl, who was 10, look like she was 8. I would guess that audiences watching a B&W movie in 1956 really couldn't see much of a difference.

[quote]In hopes of disguising the fact that Patty McCormack was ten and playing an 8-year-old, the film's hair stylist, make-up crew and costume designer dressed and coiffed her to look younger than her true age, making her dresses oversized, giving her more prominent bangs and putting her in facial make-up that gave her a paler complexion. When she originated the role in the 1954 stage production, McCormack had actually been eight.

[quote] By 1956, wasn't Bette a bit long in the tooth to be playing the mother of an 8-year-old?

Yes, especially if the tooth belonged to a saber-toothed tiger. She's old enough to remember those from before they went extinct.

R358 I'm glad I opened that in Incognito, judging by the list of similar videos I can just imagine what YouTube would be recommending I watch if I didn't.

I thought her teeth were nice. What I couldn't believe was how old she was!

Is there really much of an age difference look-wise between an 8 and 10 year old?

I wouldn’t know.

r359 I enjoyed "The Sweet Smell of Success."

In his bio Andrew Lloyd Weber says he loves Buckley but he didn't think she was properly cast in that show. He uses some British phrase like Betty is a lot of things but not a Brixton girl or something like that. I didn't get the reference but got the meaning.

Jack Warner paid a fortune to license the screen rights for My Fair Lady and he said outright he wanted the biggest stars he could get to make sure he got his money back. Cary Grant declined decline Higgins but Audrey was his first choice for Eliza and she took it. He said his second choice would have been Shirley Jones and Andrews third choice.

Interestingly, usually when you buy screen rights, you BUY them outright in perpetuity. CBS had financed the stage production of My Fair Lady but they would would only license the screen rights for seven years, after which they reverted back to CBS. Warner was very upset about it but CBS wouldn't budge and Warner was determined to make the film so he took the deal.

Bernadette Peters is many a glorious thing, but a Brixton girl she ain’t either, R379. How strange, if that’s what ALW used.

It wasn't Brixton. It was something like that. A Chelsea girl maybe? Some place and a girl attached to it.

^ And James Cagney turned down Alfred Doolittle.

Do you think Audrey was an opportunist for not turning down Eliza and insisted that Julie play the part instead, as Cary and Cagney had done for Rex Harrison and Stanley Holloway, respectively.

Ah, yes - Chelsea girl makes perfect sense, R382. Brixton is renowned as an Afro-Caribbean area of London, whereas Chelsea is full of posh white girls.

But I wouldn't put it past ALW to get this confused. It's been told that that ALW invited the well-known English Jewish comedian Ben Elton to collaborate with him as the lyricist on The Beautiful Game - premiering in 2000 - because he got Elton mixed up with David Baddiel, also a well-known English Jewish comedian, who had incidentally written the lyrics for a popular football anthem that had topped the UK charts in 1996.

Uh, Bette Davis WAS the mother of a 9 year old daughter in 1956...adorable little B.D.

"I love Betty to bits but I'm not sure she was born to play a twenty-something English girl from Muswell Hill."

Remember when Steve McQueen (black British director, not white American actor) referred to Sarah Paulsen as "the American Bette Davis"?

It is well known that Cagney turned down Doolittle. But he had permanently retired in 1961. Doolittle is a strenuous role and there would have been the issue of doing a credible accent. It's a great part but I'm not surprised her wasn't interested at that point. But I bet he would have been wonderful if he had been interested.

Cagney did come out of retirement once in the early '80s to play the small non-musical role of the Police Chief in Forman's lackluster film version of the novel of Ragtime.

^ he wasn't, not her wasn't. Whatever.

Going back to why Julie didn't do My Fair Lady, you also have to remember that although Julie was a big Broadway and TV star -- she really was a household name -- she had never done any films when MFL went into production. Jack Warner wanted *big* film stars to guarantee his investment. Poppins did come out two months before MFL but her film value was unknown before that. And as Warner said, she was always in consideration. But he was going for the biggest names first.

Going back to why Julie didn't do My Fair Lady, you also have to remember that although Julie was a big Broadway and TV star -- she really was a household name -- she had never done any films when MFL went into production. Jack Warner wanted *big* film stars to guarantee his investment. Poppins did come out two months before MFL but her film value was unknown before that. And as Warner said, she was always in consideration. But he was going for the biggest names first.

Cagney as Higgins would have been ludicrous. Higgins has to have a modicum of sex appeal.

Indeed, r393. That's why Cagney was sought as Doolittle, not Higgins. He would have been fine.

Meanwhile, I've always thought Audrey partnering with Harrison's aged Higgins as grotesque.

You want a good My Fair Lady? Watch the 1938 Pygmalion film with Leslie Howard and Wendy Hiller and then listen to the 1956 OBCR.

Lerner based the MFL libretto on the 1938 screenplay, not the original play. The final scene, used in the musical, was added by producer Gabriel Pascal, and Shaw was furious when he saw it in the film.

Lerner based the MFL libretto on the 1938 screenplay, not the original play. The final scene, used in the musical, was added by producer Gabriel Pascal, and Shaw was furious when he saw it in the film.

oh r342 are you still here?

I assume ALW was just being diplomatic. Bernadette was perfect for the role and did well (or well enough) with the accent. She has to have an endearing quality for the audience to want to follow her journey for the entire first act. Betty Lynn has a steely voice (which I love) and persona (which works like gangbusters...in certain roles). The girl's songs (out of context) aren't ideally suited for a brassy voice, let alone a steely one.

r359 - Sad that Mr. Holmes didn't do more Broadway scores.

He’s been a pretty awful book writer and playwright since. Curtains, Accomplice, First Wives Club, Marty, A Time to Kill, and a aforementioned Nutty Professor. Does anyone know why he keeps trying (and failing) to write plays and musical books but not another score?

According to Wikipedia his real name is David Goldstein and according to collaborators he’s a pain in the ass.

Did it have something to do with the death of his daughter in 1986?

I really like some of the music from DROOD (even the songs that were cut from the show).

Some of Rupert Holmes' musical projects sound really dubious (besides NUTTY PROFESSOR). I may be alone in this on DL, but I am not eagerly awaiting a musical of THE FIRST WIVES CLUB. It was a crappy book and a pretty crappy movie.

And yes, R262 is correct: I'd completely forgotten SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS even existed! I like that movie but don't really see it as a musical.

Lithgow was in SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, wasn't he? Any memories of that performance?

[quote]It is well known that Cagney turned down Doolittle.

He didn't want to come out of retirement for some stupid bloated movie about talking to animals.

[quote]I've always thought Audrey partnering with Harrison's aged Higgins as grotesque.

But that was totally in keeping with so many of Audrey's films. "Sabrina" with Bogie. "Funny Face" with Astaire. "Love in the Afternoon" with Gary Cooper. "Charade" with Cary Grant. Harrison was actually younger than any of those other co-stars.

Yes, it's not like the Higgins-Eliza matchup was meant to be carnal.

Well, now I won't be satisfied until I see a My Fair Lady porn parody. "The splooge from Euge lands nicely in my cooze."

r403 Lithgow won a Tony and a Drama Desk for "Sweet Smell." Cast also included Brian D'Arcy James, Jack Noseworthy and a young Kelli O'Hara.

With typical contrarianism, Shaw explained why the "happy" ending suggested in the 1938 movie was, in fact, not happy at all:

[quote]I cannot conceive a less happy ending to the story of Pygmalion than a love affair between the middle-aged professor, a confirmed old bachelor with a mother-fixation, and a flower girl of 18. Nothing of the kind was emphasized in my scenario, where I emphasized the escape of Eliza from the tyranny of Higgins by a quite natural love affair with Freddy. But I cannot at my age undertake studio work and about 20 directors seem to have turned up there and spent their time trying to sidetrack me and Mr. Gabriel Pascal, who does really know chalk from cheese. They devised a scene to give a lovelorn complexion at the end to Mr. Leslie Howard, but it is too inconclusive to be worth making a fuss about.

Sweet Smell of Success The Musical was one of the best naps I've ever had. It was a total "Why" musical, and every one on stage was acting like they were in Camelot. It was bizarre.

Does anyone have the ENTIRE Uncle Vanya directed by Richard Nelson with Jay O Sanders?

Someone posted a trailer for it in a previous thread, but I would love to see the entire production.

Shaw won the Oscar for the 1938 Pygmalion. He even displayed the statuette on his mantel.

R411 It was the complete Vanya posted.

Ooops. My mistake. R411. I found it.

[quote]Jack Warner paid a fortune to license the screen rights for My Fair Lady and he said outright he wanted the biggest stars he could get to make sure he got his money back. Cary Grant declined decline Higgins but Audrey was his first choice for Eliza and she took it. He said his second choice would have been Shirley Jones and Andrews third choice.

I have never heard that Shirley Jones was ever considered for Eliza. According to several sources, when Audrey hesitated to take the role because she felt it should go to Julie Andrews, Warner told her that if she didn't take it, he would cast Elizabeth Taylor.

[quote]Interestingly, usually when you buy screen rights, you BUY them outright in perpetuity. CBS had financed the stage production of My Fair Lady but they would would only license the screen rights for seven years, after which they reverted back to CBS. Warner was very upset about it but CBS wouldn't budge and Warner was determined to make the film so he took the deal.

One of the stupidest, most bone-headed decisions in Hollywood history, akin to the ridiculous, idiotic deal Sam Goldwyn made in securing (but not for long) the film frights for PORGY AND BESS.

[quote]Going back to why Julie didn't do My Fair Lady, you also have to remember that although Julie was a big Broadway and TV star -- she really was a household name -- she had never done any films when MFL went into production. Jack Warner wanted *big* film stars to guarantee his investment. Poppins did come out two months before MFL but her film value was unknown before that. And as Warner said, she was always in consideration. But he was going for the biggest names first.

Also, I really think it was a big issue that Warner thought Julie would not be photogenic on the big screen. That may sound odd to us today, but if you look at the TV CINDERELLA with Julie, there really are several scenes where she doesn't look attractive at all (though that may be partly due to the poor quality of the surviving kinescope).

[quote]I assume ALW was just being diplomatic. Bernadette was perfect for the role and did well (or well enough) with the accent. She has to have an endearing quality for the audience to want to follow her journey for the entire first act. Betty Lynn has a steely voice (which I love) and persona (which works like gangbusters...in certain roles). The girl's songs (out of context) aren't ideally suited for a brassy voice, let alone a steely one.

I assume ALW was just being his usual asshole self. He has a history of shooting his mouth off. Sometimes he says nice things about people he's working with and then badmouths those same people if he turns on them, also badmouthing people he hasn't worked with and then changing his tune if he he later winds up working with them. Before Madonna was actually cast as Evita in that movie, she had been mentioned as a possibility for the role some years earlier, and ALW's reaction to that idea at the time was that such casting would be "a joke."

I saw Bernadette in SONG & DANCE and she got every drop of humor and pathos out of it. I saw Betty Lynn in the same role and it was like tumbleweeds during Act 1; not a laugh or titter.

I love Bernie, and I love her singing on the SUNDAY OCR.... but her British accent is laughably bad.

"We'll have a pic-nic on the carpet....."

Insight into how the Tonys will be handled this year:

[quote]Twenty plays and musicals opened on Broadway during the abbreviated 2019-20 season, but only the 18 shows that opened before Feb. 19 will be eligible for Tony Awards. A revival of “West Side Story” that opened Feb. 20 and the new musical “Girl From the North Country,” which opened March 5, will not be eligible because too few nominators and voters saw them before Broadway shut down March 12.

[quote]The awards administrators debated combining the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons for one televised ceremony next year, but decided against that over concern that it would not be fair to shows that opened in 2019.

[quote]Tony administrators and rule-makers will meet next week to discuss what to do about categories — like original score, and leading actor in a musical — in which there are few eligible competitors, because awards officials want to be sure they are recognizing merit. Based on both precedent and the awards rules, options could include: allow the nominators to choose fewer nominees, or even eliminate categories; and/or require that a certain percentage of voters support a nominee, even in a non-contested category, for them to win an award.

[quote]because awards officials want to be sure they are recognizing merit

Hahahaha

[quote]The awards administrators debated combining the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons for one televised ceremony next year, but decided against that over concern that it would not be fair to shows that opened in 2019

Just how old are Tony voters that they'll apparently forget a great performance if they have to wait another year to cast a vote for it?

Can we just give them to Lois Smith and Danny Burstein like everyone wants and skip the rest of this embarrassment

With the elimination of several shows (Company, North Country, WSS) there are some very happy actors because they are now a lock. And Andrianne Warren doesn't again have to go up against Olivier Award winner Sharon D. Clarke, whom she would have again probably lost to. Clarke's performance is beyond monumental.

will this be a "we see you white tony awards" clusterfuck?

Oh, fer chrissakes. I was checking something on TV Guide for Wednesday and I clicked on The Lucy Show and this episode will be on. I was reminded how those young Cub Scouts were just aching to see...Miss Ethel Merman!

SEASON 2 • EPISODE 18 • LUCY TEACHES ETHEL MERMAN TO SING • COMEDY / SITCOM

Ethel Merman comes to town incognito and Lucy recruits her to sing for a Boy Scout show. Part 1 of two. Lucille Ball, Vivian Vance. Mooney: Gale Gordon. Jerry: Jimmy Garrett. Candy: Chris Moore. Sherman: Ralph Hart...

I didn't know there were gayling-specific "dens" of Cub Scouts, R423.

Is there a merit badge in original Bway cast recordings?

(I've seen the neckerchiefs.... and they're FABULOUS.)

By the way, has anyone checked? IS Judy Kaye in quarantine?

R421 If you say so....

[quote]By the way, has anyone checked? IS Judy Kaye in quarantine?

Read all about it, R425.

[quote]By the way, has anyone checked? IS Judy Kaye in quarantine?

Is she being fed by the same company that is (not) feeding NYU students?

What little credibility the Tony awards had left is now gone. What a fucking joke.

Poor Betty Buckley. She really doesn't possess an ounce of warmth or charm, does she? Every time I've seen her, she seems to be taking everything so seriously. She used to have an unbeatable and powerful voice, but now, that's deteriorated as well.

I can't possibly imagine her in Song and Dance. I'm sure sounded great during the songs, but that character is all wrong for her.

r430

I always wondered that myself... were they really looking to continue the show or wanted a big name to see if they could go on... what a bizarre choice

SLAVE PLAY!!!!!!!

John Wilson Proms 2012- The Broadway Sound.

Kaye Ballard - The Show Goes On.

[quote]Poor Betty Buckley. She really doesn't possess an ounce of warmth or charm, does she? Every time I've seen her, she seems to be taking everything so seriously. She used to have an unbeatable and powerful voice, but now, that's deteriorated as well. I can't possibly imagine her in Song and Dance. I'm sure sounded great during the songs, but that character is all wrong for her.

I couldn't (and still can't) imagine her in Hello, Dolly! either, even though the few reviews I read of her performance, and the even fewer reactions I got from non-critic friends who saw her in the show, were not bad.

Buckley registered quite warmly in "Carrie" on film, but she tends to amp up the steeliness on stage with her powerful (as it used to be) voice.

[quote]Buckley registered quite warmly in "Carrie" on film, but she tends to amp up the steeliness on stage with her powerful (as it used to be) voice.

And, although I never saw it, I'm sure she registered warmly in her TV series, but why should her singing style cause her to register as cold in her spoken lines on stage as well? I guess that's just the way she acts on stage.

I'll never understand Buckley either. She seems more well known for her stage work, but I think she's at her best on film. She can be incredibly warm on film, but I've never been able to connect to her during her stage work.

Maybe you needed to sit closer. . . like up on the stage.

The Kaye Ballard documentary is very charming.

Forbidden Broadway's take on Dear Evan Hansen is pretty great

[R392]: Actually, the film of “My Fair Lady” opened in November of 1964, while “Mary Poppins” actually opened about a month later, in December. MFL was a foregone hit, but MP was a smash, making Andrews a major film star practically overnight, causing everyone in the business to refer to her as a shoo-in for the Oscar.

One can only imagine Jack Warner seeing all this, gnawing away on his cigar.

Thank you, r434! It's wonderful.

And I believe Julie was already filming SoM before MP had even been released....

Robert Wise, in considering Julie for "The Sound of Music," said that, after she was bypassed for "My Fair Lady," he had heard that she wasn't sufficiently "photogenic." He called someone he knew at Disney and asked whether he could see some rough cuts of the movie, which was still in production. He saw the cuts, decided she was "photogenic as hell," and cast her as Maria.

^^ Rough cuts of "Mary Poppins," that is. ^^

[quote]r415 I have never heard that Shirley Jones was ever considered for Eliza. A

Connie Stevens was under contract to Warner Bros. at the time, and campaigned to play Eliza.

Probably would have made for a more entertaining film, in retrospect.

[italic]"Warners didn't want to interfere with the success of a money-making TV show like Hawaiian Eye," says Stevens. She fought mogul Jack Warner to cast her as Honey (the Sandy Dennis role) in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? She even lobbied for the role of Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady. But Warner was immovable. There was a stigma against small-screen actors going to the big screen, with the exception of the occasional Warners quickie like the utterly dispensable spring-break flick, Palm Springs Weekend (1963).

Thanks, R455. That is the story as Wise told it in a video interview for a documentary that's included as an extra on at least one of the home video editions of THE SOUND OF MUSIC, and I believe it.

As I wrote earlier in the thread, it's not too much a stretch to think that some people felt Julie was non-photogenic at the time, because there are a few scenes in CINDERELLA where she doesn't look great. (I'm thinking of "In My Own Little Corner.") But, again, CINDERELLA only survives in that poor quality kinescope, and maybe she looked a lot better with a clearer image and in color. I think she looks beautiful in MARY POPPINS, but she's wearing SO MUCH makeup in that movie that Ishe almost looks like a different person than the woman in TSOM, where she has a far more natural, less made-up look. I think she looks lovely in TSOM as well, and in all of her other movies whenever she was photographed properly.

Maybe I'll watch HGWT today...

Have Gun, Will Travel

TODAY, 30 MIN 1957

SEASON 1 • EPISODE 6 • THE BRIDE • WESTERN / DRAMA

What fate awaits Christie Smith, a frightened mail-order bride? Paladin: Richard Boone. Christie: Marian Seldes. Drydan: Bruce Gordon. Guard: Barry Cahill...

[quote]What fate awaits Christie Smith, a frightened mail-order bride?

Appearing in every one of the 1,809 Broadway performances of "Deathtrap."

Marian Seldes loved Stew - you know that amazing new Broadway phenom composer who was going to change musical theater and everything before him was shit and The New York Times couldn't wait to tell how irrelevant every other Broadway musical was. Yes, that Stew. Um, where is he now?

R451-In a Tupperware container at the back of the freezer.

I dunno, r452, it might be Meat Loaf.

R448 There was a story I read that Julie Andrews made a screen test for Joe Pasternak, who had produced many of Deanna Durbin's films, when he was in England. Apparently Julie's test didn't go very well, and she either wasn't lit well or was just at a gawky adolescent stage and just didn't photograph that well. I think stories of that failed screen test were still around, since it might have been done about 10-15 years before the mid-1960s and Wise needed confirmation how she looked and photographed at that present time.

[quote]What fate awaits Christie Smith, a frightened mail-order bride? Paladin: Richard Boone. Christie: Marian Seldes.

Marian Seldes as a mail order bride? I hope she's being sent COD because she's definitely going to be sent back.

She was lovely, Elaine.

More SMILE...

[quote]She was lovely, Elaine.

Looks like she's on her knees ready to give the sheriff a blowjob. I guess that's how she got her jobs and why she stayed so long in Deathtrap because her arthritic knees were not what they used to be.

[italic]The Sound of Music[/italic] and [italic]The Americanization of Emily[italic] already had opened by the time Oscar voting began. That influenced the vote as much as anything else.

[quote]One can only imagine Jack Warner seeing all this, gnawing away on his cigar.

He needn't have knawed too hard as his film rightfully won the most Oscars including Best Picture, winning more awards than it lost, and it still attracts huge crowds when it plays in reissue/repertory houses. Connie Stevens would have been a joke as Eliza and an even bigger joke as Honey in [italic]Virginia Woolf[/italic]. Nothing against her, but Shaw and Albee are things beyond her ken.

But the stigma against people from TV shows being in movies didn't keep Stanley Holloway from doing a sitcom called [italic]Our Man Higgins[/italic] and did nothing to stop LucyMAME. The greater loss to film by far was Angela Lansbury not getting to do [italic]Mame[/italic] and Lucy making excuses for why she wasn't dubbed and refused to quit smoking. She actually won the Tony for it originally.

It was her birthright.

Jack Warner was more tolerant of gays than Walt Disney. He went to bat for Tab Hunter in [italic]Damn Yankees[/italic] in defiance of George Abbott's homophobia.

[/italic]Oscar voters would believe Audrey Hepburn as a blind woman as long as she doesn't sing since she was later nominated for [italic]Wait Under Dark[/italic] while the only performance from the thoroughly un-Oscar-worthy [italic]Thoroughly Modern Millie[/italic] that got a nomination belonged to Carol Channing.

But look at how many post-1964 musicals were stuck with undubbed leads of questionable singing ability. Frankly, some of them could have been partially salvaged by dubbing. One of the reasons [italic]Song of Norway[/italic] was such a flop is Toralv Maurstad can't sing and is painful to listen to next to Frank Poretta and Florence Henderson. There was no Oscar at risk so who would have complained if they used an opera singer to dub him?

R451, pre-COVID Stew was touring just like he has forever.

I think a lot of naysayers thought taking time off to do a Broadway run and being associated with musical theater, might lessen his momentum, but it does not seem to have damaged his career any.

According to WP, Mary Poppins premiered in LA on August 27, 1964. IMDB says the same thing and adds that it opened in New York a month later, although it implies the wide release wasn't until 1965. Regardless, it opened before MFL.

I'm on the bench about Wise and casting Andrews. I certainly believe his story about going to Disney to see the Poppins rushes but on the other hand Rodgers, who had casting approval, often said he never considered anyone else. Plus, Wise didn't come onboard until the last minute, when William Wyler dropped out to film The Collector after doing two years of pre-production on TSOM. I suspect Andrews' was signed before Wise and he went to Disney see what she could do and whether he wanted to get involved before signing on himself but that's just a hunch.

And speaking of Mr. Abbott's homophobia, how did he deal with his fair-haired boy Hal Prince? Did he just look the other way like everybody else?

[quote]Meanwhile, I've always thought Audrey partnering with Harrison's aged Higgins as grotesque.

Was this any worse than pairing her with Humphrey Bogart, Fred Astaire, or Cary Grant?

I know it's kind of sacrilege, but when Audrey appears looking stunning in Cecil Beaton's gowns in "My Fair Lady" she appears more than noticeably flat as a pancake. Didn't anyone notice that otherwise gorgeous embassy gown made her look even more flat? At least Julie had boobs, which she later showed off in "SOB", plus of course she could sing.

[quote] how did he deal with his no-haired boy Hal Prince?

Fixed.

[quote]of course she could sing.

She can't anymore.

So what's your point, R467? "The Sound of Music" was released 55 years ago and Julie is 84 years old.

It is possible to maintain your voice after a certain age.

I wonder if Julie can still whistle? She did the whistling bird in "Mary Poppins" in "Spoonful of Sugar" and also she whistled in "What do the Simple Folk Do?" in "Camelot". Really excellent whistler.

Marni Nixon could do it better.

Which one of you bitches said Andrea McArdle can't act?

Poppins played Roadshow engagements for most of its first year. The June 1965 date is when it went into neighborhood theaters at regular prices. And the premiere was in August 1964. MFL premiered in LA and NY in October and went into wide release on Christmas Day.

Poppins played Roadshow engagements for most of its first year. The June 1965 date is when it went into neighborhood theaters at regular prices. And the premiere was in August 1964. MFL premiered in LA and NY in October and went into wide release on Christmas Day.

[quote] Which one of you bitches said Andrea McArdle can't act?

Arf!

William Wyler begged to be let out of his TSOM contract to do The Collector but Fox and the film's producers (including Richard Rodgers) weren't having it. Then Robert Wise suddenly became available and agreed to take over immediately just before shooting was to start. Andrews had to have been signed by then. Remember that just 3 or 4 years earlier Wise had led West Side Story to Best Picture and he won Best Director. It turned out to be a win/win situation all the way around for everybody.

I'm not sure about George Abbott's "homophobia." During the worst days of the AIDS epidemic, a choreographer, Michael Shawn, had been fired from Legs Diamond, and Michael Shawn sued them, saying it was because of his AIDS diagnosis. The Legs Diamond producers said Michael was fired because he wasn't good enough to do the show. George Abbott wrote this letter to the New York Times:

To the Editor:

I believe Michael Shawn to be a superior choreographer. He did the choreography and I did the direction on a production of 'Damn Yankees' at the Paper Mill Playhouse in 1986. I thought his work superior - original, some of the best. GEORGE ABBOTT Miami Beach, Nov. 10, 1989

Abbott was over 100 years old at this point. Michael Shawn died of AIDS at age 45.

Andrea was atrocious as young Judy Garland in the 1978 TV movie [italic]Rainbow[/italic]. Disney made her Star-To-Be when they remade [italic]Annie[/italic] (the most dispensable character in the show) so she would only have to sing, and the film camera enlarges those giant throat muscles every time she sustains.

R477: It's possible that he mellowed over the years but during the 1950s he seemed very bothered by a gay man being the lead in the film of a show of his. Jack Warner didn't seem to care.

^ Wasn't it more because Tab Hunter was a talentless fuck?

I heard his biographer say this out loud live to an audience showing the movie.

I happened upon a list of TONY winners from years past. Riddle me this, TG fans:

How the FUCK did SPAMALOT win Best Musical in 2005, over DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS, PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE, and (wait for it)....

THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA?

What were people thinking 15 years ago?

PCSB should have won.

Apropos of nothing, I was watching the 1961 UK film "Victim" yesterday, and a couple of scenes were filmed on the sidewalk outside the theatre where "Oliver!" was playing in the West End. You can clearly see the posters in front of the theatre and Ron Moody and Georgia Brown's names. A quick Wikipedia search says it was the New Theatre (later the Albery and now the Noel Coward). Good movie, too, if you can tune out the melodramatic music, with Dirk Bogarde and Sylvia Sims, and apparently the first English-language film to use the word "homosexual."

r458 - Oh for chrissakes Elaine, that's not the sheriff. It's the joli laid Richard Boone as Paladin!

That dress you speak of R465 has a story. The day before shooting that scene, no one liked the dress made for her and two people, I forget if one was Beaton, went shopping in antique stores and found the one she wears which was from the exact year and fit her perfectly.

Lots of Edwardian-era women's fashion tended to de-accentuate the bosom.

That's your basic pigeon-breast or mono-bosom.

Theatre Gossip #399 - The _Judy Kaye Goes Into Quarantine_ Edition

Is Judy Kaye related to Stubby Kaye?

R481, Spamalot won cause it was a flashy splashy tired businessman Vegas music hall with some very good comic actors reenacting Monty Python sketches. I think Broadway (or the touring voters) really wanted another Producers style musical comedy and this was a natural progression of original creator working with very smart theatre people. And like I said, that original cast was terrific - no one has ever played The Lady of the Lake quite like Sara Ramirez - real lightening in a bottle.

Light in the Piazza was a gorgous show and at the time was my hope for Best Musical, but Dirty Rotten Scoundrels was fun, well constructed musical comedy fluff (and why Yazbek's Tootsie score is such a flat disappointment), and I found Putnam County Spelling Bee... fine.

Another Behind the Curtain question.... Malcolm Gets says he originally did the Amour workshop with a different "leading lady" who did not move on with the project. My idea was Bernadette Peters, but that might just be daydreamin' of that voice caressing that Michel Legrand score. Anyone in the know know?

(Gets also says he was last minute replacement for Irma La Douce at Encores but google let me know he stepped in for a "schedule conflict"d Allan Corduner)

To our dear wonderful NTLive provider, do you by any change happen to have a good boot of Come From Away? Thought there was a "slime tutorial" available on youtube but no dice. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for all the marvelous entertainment you've provided us creatures out there in the dark during quarantine.

R490 I don't really do handbags. Do have a documentary on it....

[quote]Frankly, some of them could have been partially salvaged by dubbing. One of the reasons Song of Norway was such a flop is Toralv Maurstad can't sing and is painful to listen to next to Frank Poretta and Florence Henderson.

They don't spend money on the dubbing because they know that it's going to be a shit movie.

It's like A Little Night Music. Why dub Elizabeth Taylor's warbling when you have men sitting in a tree playing a cello? The finished product will be crap so just leave it as crap and spend the money on something worthwhile.

And make it a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[quote]no one has ever played The Lady of the Lake quite like Sara Ramirez - real lightening in a bottle.

She wasn't the original choice, was she? I think they had another actress to play the role and possibly Sara was just going to sing? Maybe someone can refresh my memory?

Allegiance.

The John Wilson Orchestra 2012 Proms - The Sound of Broadway.

With Wise and Julie Andrews, he may have just looked at the Poppins film to get an idea of what were her best angles. If she didn't look good in profile, he would know to only film her in full face or maybe a quarter turn. I imagine her nose was the issue as Julie's nose in closeup was a bit bothersome.

The Last of the Haussmans - with Julie Walters, Rafe Spall, Helen McCrory and Taron Egerton.

R497: The fact that Wise was shooting in 65mm made that all the more important. Mary Martin aged out of the role by then and the Todd-AO process would have made it even more obvious. It had to be someone Christopher Plummer would dump Eleanor Parker for, not someone Theodore Bikel would dump Marion Marlowe for.

Disney hadn't used large-format negatives for anything since [italic]Sleeping Beauty[/italic], which was shot in Technirama. Petro Vlahos' sodium vapor process they used at the time to combine live-action and animation (not to mention matte shots and rear projection work where location shoots were either impractical or unaffordable) precluded the use of either it or anamorphic lenses that likely would have made edge fringing worse. They used converted Technicolor cameras so you were dealing with multiple strips of film that were combined later in an optical printer. It's the same reason there are no films shot in both 3-strip Technicolor and CinemaScope. They used this well into the 1970s.

I have a question for those who have read Andrew Lloyd Webber's autobiography. There's a picture of Andrew and Cameron Mackintosh having breakfast on the terrace of the Mayflower Hotel in NYC. Andrew is bare-chested and Cameron is wearing a muscle shirt. Who was the top and who was the bottom?

I was fierce, bitch!

[quote]Who was the top and who was the bottom?

Probably whoever the agency sent over that day.

r465 at the time in history people did not have the obsession over tits that they do now. It was perfectly fine for a woman to be "flat as a board". Twiggy was a super model in the 60's before the term was coined and she had no tits.

So no one cared whether or not Audrey displayed large bulbous boobs in MFL.

She looked stunning enough without them.

[quote]But the stigma against people from TV shows being in movies didn't keep Stanley Holloway from doing a sitcom called Our Man Higgins and did nothing to stop LucyMAME. The greater loss to film by far was Angela Lansbury not getting to do Mame and Lucy making excuses for why she wasn't dubbed and refused to quit smoking. She actually won the Tony for it originally.

You seem a little confused. The other poster was making the point that there was a stigma against actors who first achieved fame in TV shows being cast in movies, especially in leading roles. And though of course I agree that Lansbury not getting to do the MAME movie was a tremendous loss, that has nothing to do with that point. Nor does Lucy snagging the role of Mame in the first place, since she was in a class by herself in terms of tremendous fame, far more famous than any other TV star.

[quote]Andrea was atrocious as young Judy Garland in the 1978 TV movie Rainbow.

Sadly, I must agree.

[quote]How the FUCK did SPAMALOT win Best Musical in 2005, over DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS, PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE, and (wait for it)....THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA?

SPAMALOT was a bigger hit than the others, and it was directed by Mike Nichols, whose career was legendary. I think that had a lot to do with it. I certainly agree that SCOUNDRELS or PIAZZA should have won over SPAMALOT in terms of quality. SPELLING BEE was a highly entertaining show overall, but the score is pretty bad.

[quote]The fact that Wise was shooting in 65mm made that all the more important. Mary Martin aged out of the role by then.

By then? Martin was 46 when she played Maria in TSOM on Broadway, at least 20 years too old for the role (and that's being charitable).

R499, thanks for that info. I always wondered why, other than SLEEPING BEAUTY (as you say), Disney made no really wide screen movies back in the '50s and '60s. But I am glad that MARY POPPINS was not made in Cinemascope or some other super-wide screen process, because now, when you watch it on a modern, 16:9 HD TV, it fills the screen perfectly and looks great.

[quote][R465] at the time in history people did not have the obsession over tits that they do now.

Terry-Thomas gave a whole speech about them in [italic]It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World[/italic].

Why isn’t there more DL outrage that Connie Stevens wasn’t granted so much as a screen test for MY FAIR LADY, despite all her efforts ? ?

R504, your reasoning is the same one used to justify both the cropping of 4x3 material and anything wider than 16x9. [italic]The Sound of Music[/italic] and [italic]My Fair Lady[/italic] have always looked better while the Disney film looks like it was shot inside Walt's lungs.

Yeah sure in the movie, for laughts, but in real life women came in a variety of shapes and sizes at that point in time.

No one thinking "What do we do about Audrey's tits?" (or lack thereof)

The titty obsession didn't happen in real life until the 1990's. Then in every flim, tv show, magazine etc. women began to have big, big, bigger BOOBIES!!!!!

[quote]R485 That dress you speak of [R465] has a story. The day before shooting that scene, no one liked the dress made for her and two people, I forget if one was Beaton, went shopping in antique stores and found the one she wears which was from the exact year and fit her perfectly.

I’m not sure I entirely believe that. What is the source for this? I just find it hard to swallow that practically the most important costume in the film wasn’t designed, approved and tested long before then. Especially since Hepburn was so neurotic about her costumes. (Like, exhaustingly so.)

I have read that Beaton didn’t like her hairstyle for that sequence - calling it “a bird’s nest.”

[quote]What do we do about Audrey's tits?

I declare this the name of the next thread.

Light in the Piazza was a boring slog.

Beaton could have drawn this afterwards, of course.

Just for the record, I asked str8 guys about Julie's tits and the one I asked said "I've seen better." He preferred Racquel Welch.

The Datalounge thanks you for your diligent research r513.

I guess she was only sexy to lesbians.

[quote]Your reasoning is the same one used to justify both the cropping of 4x3 material and anything wider than 16x9.

I don't agree that it's the same reasoning, and I never want any movie to be cropped in any way for home video, but I do like it when movies fill the 16:9 screens perfectly -- provided that's their original aspect ratio. Also, I've always thought the widest Cinemascope movies were TOO wide even when seen in theaters -- like THE KING AND I, to pick one example.

[quote]The titty obsession didn't happen in real life until the 1990's. Then in every flim, tv show, magazine etc. women began to have big, big, bigger BOOBIES!!!!!

I think there was a boob obsession in the 1950s. Plenty of women had rather prominent bosoms; some of them cone-shaped.

Cinemascope 55 added another perforation per frame on each side, not just 20 extra mm of space. So it was not just wider, but taller than normal 35mm as well.

[quote]R515 I guess she was only sexy to lesbians.

[quote]Lots of Edwardian-era women's fashion tended to de-accentuate the bosom.

R486 My Fair Lady is post-Edwardian Era (1901-1910). It takes place around 1913. By then, George V was king and women's fashion had changed from the 1900s. For one, hemlines rose to the ankles. Ball gowns were still floor-length, but regular skirts began to rise during this decade. By 1919, they had risen to the shins. They would rise again (to the knee) by the mid-'20s and then back down again by the early '30s.

Not everyone would have been wearing new clothes then, R520.

Say, did I ever sing on some Austrian hillside with a really butch haircut?

There are a lot of reasons why Angie didn't get Mame and we go through it all the time. If Julie wasn't thought to be photogenic, Lansbury proved herself not to be. Her tune-up or audition for Mame was Something for Everyone. Directed by Hal Prince, screenplay by Hugh Wheeler, costumes by Florence Klotz. She was even playing a kooky countess spouting bitchy one liners. But she couldn't fill the screen and the camera just did not love her moon face. She's perfect acceptable as a supporting character in the movies but not as a leading lady.

Angela Lansbury didn't get the Mame movie because Lucille Fucking Ball had the money to buy the rights and Angela didn't. We had to look at Bea Arthur's fugly face for two hours, we could have endured Angela's face.

[quote] Lots of Edwardian-era women's fashion tended to de-accentuate the bosom.

I showed my titties plenty in 1913!

So rousing...

When we were kids (in the '90s) I watched THE SOUND OF MUSIC often. My brother couldn't stand it, naturally, though he did point out that Julie was attractive. He liked her eyes and boobs, especially when she's dripping wet after the canoe capsized.

Lucy never bought the rights but Lansbury loons won't let that go.

Lucy wanted to buy the rights...but Gary wouldn't allow it.

Lucy was simply more bankable and for a musical made after the mid-60's, that was important. It didn't matter that she was all wrong for the role.

Lansbury's character in Something For Everyone is completely different from Mame, so I'm not sure how that was really an audition for Mame. Her character in that might wear odd clothes and be a generally kooky person, but she doesn't really call to mind Mame at all.

You can’t keep a good pair of 1913 titties down!

[quote]Light in the Piazza was a boring slog.

Only if you're a heartless, soulless cretin.

Is the movie of Piazza worth finding?

Angela Lansbury could not do MAME after her daughter was caught hanging out with Charles Manson. NO WAY any studio would have linked such a big production to Manson via its leading lady. She high-tailed it to Ireland with her kids so that neither she nor her kids would be subpoenaed to testify in any of the Manson Family trials and she didn't leave Ireland until it was all over.

I know you ninnies who worship Lansbury's every shrug and eye roll won't accept that. But it's TRUE!

[quote] Lucy was simply more bankable and for a musical made after the mid-60's, that was important. It didn't matter that she was all wrong for the role.

Yet despite obvious edits [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic], the film Angie made instead, still performed better at the box office of the two films.

[quote] NO WAY any studio would have linked such a big production to Manson via its leading lady.

Yet WB now owns the rights to several John Waters movies. And Disney didn't seem to notice or care about the Mansons because they had too much money invested in the opening of Walt Disney World and because they had to fight off Yippies in Disneyland in 1970.

And you want to talk guilt by association, the Hollywood Blacklist almost derailed [italic]I Love Lucy[/italic].

Before Lucy thought she could ski, George Cukor was attached to direct. He dropped out when the picture was delayed. Do you really think that Cukor was going to accept Lucy as Mame and not at least force her to be dubbed?

There were several other actresses who could have done the role: if Barbra Streisand showed interest, they would have let her do it. Doris Day or Julie Andrews could have done it. I think Ann Margaret could have done it. She played Tommy's mother in 1975 and playing Mame would have been more interesting than having chocolate and baked beans shot at you through a television set.

Let's face facts: in the 1970s, the only people who were going to go see Mame in a movie theater were homosexualists and matinee ladies. It wasn't a hot property.

[quote]She high-tailed it to Ireland with her kids so that neither she nor her kids would be subpoenaed to testify in any of the Manson Family trials and she didn't leave Ireland until it was all over.

I saw her in an interview one time where she was asked about moving to Ireland. She acknowledged that she wanted to get her kids away from the drug scene (I don't think she actually said her kids were on drugs, just away from the drug scene). She said she made them build a house while they were over there.

R534: They still had enough evidence to convict the Mansons without them. Angie's first priority was getting Deirdre sober. Whatever she did apparently worked. Sometimes tough love is necessary.

[quote]I know you ninnies who worship Lansbury's every shrug and eye roll won't accept that.

Everyone knew Lucy was wrong for the part. No one would say anything except Jerry Herman, and he begged and pleaded with WB, but they didn't listen. Jack L. Warner had already sold out and they were into the Warner Communications era. Steve Ross was in charge of the studio then.

[quote]Let's face facts: in the 1970s, the only people who were going to go see Mame in a movie theater were homosexualists and matinee ladies. It wasn't a hot property.

If it had been done well, people would have gone to see it. Lucy was good in [italic]Yours, Mine, and Ours[/italic], and they probably used that as the justification to cast her. Trouble is, that wasn't a musical. She did do a musical before: [italic]Wildcat[/italic]. It was not technically considered a hit even if "Hey, Look Me Over" became a standard, and they probably thought that was what they were getting. They were getting that plus 12 more years of booze and smokes.

r513 as one of the resident bi gays here (pretty much just gay at this point) I used to prefer generous bosom on the lady I was fucking, but I appreciate a beautiful woman without them.

Sure there were the bombshells 517 but it's not like Bette or Hepburn were known for their tits, more variety in looks before recent times is what I'm talking about.

R530, Lansbury in Something for Everyone was as much her audition for Mame as Thoroughly Modern Millie was Channing's for Hello Dolly. Channing inexplicable got nominated for an Oscar and still didn't get Dolly.

Wasn't Streisand supposed to do Mame at some point in the 90's or early 2000s for TV? They should let her do it now. It'd really add to the sense of danger if Auntie Mame runs the risk of dying from old age before Patrick graduates high school.

R539 Yes your rrrrrr's fresh meat.

It was Cher who was supposed to do it, R541. Bullet dodged.

[quote]Lucy never bought the rights but Lansbury loons won't let that go.

Is there a directory for all the loons?

I'd be interested to see the list.

R544, they're cross referenced with Liza Loons.

Liza could have made it work and it would have been a better follow-up to [italic]Cabaret[/italic] than [italic]Lucky Lady[/italic].

I realize we're (mostly) homosexual men here, but let's get clear....

Straight men have always liked tits. Big ones, little ones, big squishy ones, firm bullet-shaped ones, all kinds of tits. Mostly, though, they dislike the complete absence of any tits at all.

Big tits are not something that just spontaneously happened "in the 90s." And (mostly gay male) designers have often found tits problematic, because they can "spoil the line" of a gown.

Thanks, R518, but when I saw a beautiful new print of THE KING AND I screened at one of the AMPAS theaters some years ago, I really thought the image was too wide.

If Cher were doing it, I bet they could keep the Lucy keys. Cher would have still sounded better.

It does seem odd that Liza never did another traditional movie musical after Cabaret. New York, New York doesn't really count to me.

She really would have been a great Mame and I'd have much rather seen her as Rose on TV than Bette Midler.

R549: It would have been riddled with autotune and that Benedictine-monk-on-a-vibrating-bed vibrato of hers would be all wrong for Jerry Herman.

[quote]It would have been riddled with autotune and that Benedictine-monk-on-a-vibratin - g-bed vibrato of hers would be all wrong for Jerry Herman.

Plus her famous scooping of notes.

For we nu-heed a little Christmas, ra-hight this very minute.

Unless they intended to rewrite Beau's cause of death, a husband dying in an avalanche might have hit too close to home for her.

R553 Good for her acting, love.

Liza's husband was killed in an avalanche?

[quote]R546 Liza could have made it work and it would have been a better follow-up to Cabaret

Lucy in “Cabaret” would have been an interesting idea.

Or Connie Stevens.

[quote]Lucy in “Cabaret” would have been an interesting idea.

Somebody needed to play the gorilla in "If You Could See Her". Might as well have been Lucy.

[quote]Lucy in “Cabaret” would have been an interesting idea.

I guess "interesting" would be one word to describe a 65-year-old Sally Bowles.

Lucy as Fraulein Schneider.

Connie as Frau Kost.

Lee Majors as Cliff.

And Jerry Mathers as the Beaver.

[quote]r547 Straight men have always liked tits ... Big tits are not something that just spontaneously happened "in the 90s."

How’da’ya like THEM egg rolls, Mr. Goldstone?

[quote]I can't even begin with Mostel I wouldn't know where to start.

Somethin' wrong with Tevye wishing everyone in the audience a happy Halloween?

R562 Do we need to start a thread on Zero Mostel ad-libs?

Speaking of Audrey Hepburn’s tits, she almost had a nervous breakdown when she had to do a bikini scene for “Two for the Road” (1967). She picked one with sleeves.

Gurl had serious body image issues, like a lot of anorexics.

I'm watching Miss Davis on Cavett. She was talking about how great it was that Alexis was getting to show off these talents in the play she was doing. Talents she never got the chance to show off at Warners.

R565 This one?

I always longed for the promised but never materialized remake of Cabaret with Elaine Stritch, Don Knotts, and James Garner as the Emcee

[quote]I always longed for the promised but never materialized remake of Cabaret with Elaine Stritch,

Never happen. The Nazis would be scared of Stritch. It would be a whole different show.

Does anyone...still where...a swastika? I'll drink to that. And one for Eva Braun!

Does anyone know what age Sally Bowles is supposed to be? I always assumed she wasn't over 30, but many women over 30 and even over 40 have played her and I think it does add an extra bit of desperation to her. Obviously, she needs to still be young enough where it's possible she could conceive a child and have an abortion, but there's definitely something more tragic about a 38 year old Sally than a 22 year old Sally.

Angela was a seasoned screen vet. Her loss of “Mame” had nothing to do with her looks. It was strictly a matter of Lucille (who did lobby strongly) for the role)) being a huge star and theoretically more bankable. If Lansbury had done it, with Bea & Madeline Kahn under Cukor’s direction, it would have made a fortune.

R569 The woman Sally is based on was 20 when Isherwood met her in Berlin

I thought I remembered reading at the time not that Lucy had bought the film right for MAME but that she did have money in the movie, and that plus her status as the star of the movie (and one of the most famous actors in history) gave her a tremendous amount of control over the film. Enough that, for example, she was able to fire Madeline Kahn after the first reading and have her replaced with Jane Connell from the original Broadway cast. But apparently the part about her having money in the movie is incorrect.

[quote]R567 I always longed for the promised but never materialized remake of Cabaret with Elaine Stritch, Don Knotts, and James Garner as the Emcee

Wasn’t Amanda Blake going to be in it, too?

Whatever happened to Joanna Paccetti? The famous fired "Annie."

I didn’t know Cher was going to do Light in the Piazza. As the pony?

Can someone PLEASE give us all an update on Judy Kaye? I need to get some sleep, please!

I think Streisand, Doris Day, Julie Andrews, Ann-Margret, and Liza all would have been wrong for Mame because each of them doesn't fit the character's personality or type in one way or another. The only good choice anyone has come up with is Shirley MacLaine. Although she hadn't yet played a character like Mame at that point, I think she could have done so very well, and she also would have been pretty much the perfect age for the part.

[quote]Lansbury in Something for Everyone was as much her audition for Mame as Thoroughly Modern Millie was Channing's for Hello Dolly. Channing inexplicable got nominated for an Oscar and still didn't get Dolly.

I think many people felt that Channing came across well on screen in supporting roles like the one she played in MILLIE but her outsize performing style would have been too much in a leading role.

Have women's tits ever been discussed this much on Datalounge before?

And while we're on the topic of tits, did any straight man (or lesbian) find it sexy when Julie Andrews bared her breasts in that movie? Shocking, sure. But sexy, I really have my doubts.

I always thought that Angela's performance of the song "Thoroughly Modern Millie" on the Oscars was her unofficial audition for Mame. She's all dolled up in glamorous furs and sings and dances her heart out.

I've always been curious about the movie Something For Everyone. Is it any good? Is Hal Prince's direction less clumsy than the job he did on the Little Night Music movie?

And did you know that Something For Everyone is the reason why the original cast album of Follies was a brutally abridged single LP instead of two? According to some Sondheim book I read (I think it was the Zadan one), Hal Prince was angry with CBS because of the way they promoted Something For Everyone. CBS cast album producer Goddard Lieberson said that Hal was so pissed off that he wouldn't let Columbia record Follies. Instead it went to Capitol, which refused to record the whole score.

As always, it all comes back to FOLLIES!

As well it should r579.

R509 I've done MFL a couple of times and that's the story that always circulated. But now that I see your pics you must be right - especially if he sketched it then there's no question.

[quote]I've always been curious about the movie Something For Everyone. Is it any good? Is Hal Prince's direction less clumsy than the job he did on the Little Night Music movie?

I think "Something for Everyone" it's a really good movie, and very well directed. Not sure what happened with "A Little Night Music," though part of the problem may have been the low budget.

"Something for Everyone" is a lot of fun and includes zany homosexualist subplots. Angela Lansbury's character delivers some wonderful lines.

^ And is on Youtube.

Thanks, R584!

Seems like this thread is paywalled. Let's wrap it up and move onto #400, shall we?

Bring Back Birdie!

Into the Light

Via Galactica

Quilters

Breakfast at Tiffany's

Kelly

Pipe Dream

Got Tu Go Disco!

Carrie

And last, but CERTAINLY not least...

Bajour!

Moving on to a new thread...

Whoop-Up!

For real....Bajour!

[quote]Liza's husband was killed in an avalanche?

The only avalanches that would have killed Liza's husbands would consist of either cum or cocaine (or both.)