Leaving Neverland Part 3

Part 1

Part 2.

[quote]Other people in the entertainment industry (other entertainers, lawyers, producers etc.) HAD to have gossiped about MJ and those boys while all of this was going on.

I never heard a thing.

[Quote]I do, however, think it's possible that Wade exaggerated a bit. Did any of the other boys say that Jackson tried to rim them (ugh!)? Also, I don't know if I believe the story that Jackson tried to penetrate Wade at 14, he was almost bigger than Jackson at the time he said, I just don't know if Jackson would have even been attracted to someone "that old". And Wade seemed like he was making up the part where Jackson sent for him to come to the studio, just so he could question him about the underwear. I think he might have made that up.

I agree. I think Wade was honest about being abuse, but he probably exaggerated a bit. I think the underwear part was made up and the rimming part, it doesn't even correspond with the abuse Jimmy described. I also think MJ trying to fuck him as a teen was a lie. I assume he would not be MJ's type anymore.

I suppose that if Jackson were between little boyfriends and the only available sexual partner around was a gangly 14, he might take a walk on the post-pubescent side for once in his life.

Plus, he might've thought a 14 year-old would be able to handle anal better.

[Quote]He expressed anger and outrage at the thoughts of his own child being victimized in the same way by the same perpetrator. I think that Wade's deal is rooted in frustration and self-loathing for the fact that he cannot feel the same anger and outrage for HIMSELF! Here's the elephant in the room, and I'm sorry if it offends: They cannot yet reconcile the heinous proportions of the crime with the fact that they liked it. Don't shoot the messenger, please.

Yup. James pings like crazy in the doc. The way he talked about MJ made it seem like he was in love with him. I realize he was groomed and that Stockholm syndrome is part of the abuse and dealing with it, but still. He seemed very sensitive as a kid too. I suspect he's gay but he connects his sexuality to the abuse, so he isn't able to deal with it and admit it to himself.

[Quote]I think it's so hard to say on Jimmy and Wade's sexuality because they suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a man at a very young age, not like 15 or 16. A 7 year old doesn't understand sex or sexuality and introducing those acts to such a young child must cloud their judgment and thoughts on sex and sexuality going forward. I'm not saying they aren't gay, I'm just saying that they will likely always have negative associations with sex and sexuality that may prevent them from living a homosexual life or that may push them strongly in a hetero direction. Or they may just be straight. I think most people are "born that way" but early childhood rape can take things very far off the course it might otherwise have gone.

Yes. This is basically what I said already. I suspect Jimmy is gay but isn't able to deal with his sexuality because connects that to the abuse.

Where can I watch the Oprah interview?

Legal System does need to address Statue of Limitations nationwide and they put the stupid ignorant LIES of MJ fans (the FlatEarthers of Fandom) on Notice with Law and Science.

“Child sexual abuse can happen anywhere, and it is clear that it may take years and even decades for victims to become fully aware of their abuse, their injuries, and their rights in coming forward to hold abusers and their enablers accountable while obtaining financial recovery for their injuries...”. Read this medical/Psychological study to the Jackson Family and Trolls.

How long does the recovery take? Try this outdated amendment of the law - then consider that totally ending the S of L is where Medical Science is headed right now - so long lasting and permanent is the damage of monsters like Jackson, Sandusky and the various churches:

“First, the victim has eight years after they reach the age of majority – which is typically when they turn 18, although this may be later in cases such as disability – meaning the victim could bring an action up to the time they are at least 26 years old.“

There is an amendment for another 3 years: The “three years” language in the statute means that a victim of childhood sexual abuse can bring an action even after they turn 26 – including many years later in some cases – if they did not develop a psychological injury or illness related to the abuse until a later time, which is not uncommon with childhood sexual trauma. A potential plaintiff thus has three years after the date of discovery of this injury or illness to bring a claim, which could be decades after the abuse.

There Is No Time Limit if Insufficient Actions Were Taken to Prevent the Abuse

Even if the person is over 26 and has known of their psychological injuries or illnesses for longer than three years, he or she still may bring a claim in some cases where the institution responsible failed to take reasonable safeguards to prevent it.

Where it gets swampy is if there were other allegations of abuse PRIOR to the Litigant’s case? Maybe DL lawyers in here can clarify this.

Fuck Jacksons enabling all knowing Family - esp fuck the fans that condone child molestation and don’t believe the medical evidence of lifelong lasting damage. Children are vulnerable developmentally - and even teens are a hot mess until age 24 when their brains finally reach full neurological development

Wade fell outside the time limit somehow. I am sure the Jackson legion of lawyers found a way around this.

Although I both believed them after part 1, I did think Jimmy came off more authentic. He seems like such a gentle soul. My heart really broke for him. In the 2nd part Wade got to me in the end. I didn't have any doubt before but watching him I couldn't fathom how people can attack him or call him a liar. The two of them are different people and have had different reactions to it. On the Oprah interview, Jimmy from the neck down was so red. He was really struggling. The whole thing is sad and almost mind boggling. It seems they may have broken the cycle though and that's what matters the most.

On “believing Jimmy, but not beliving Wade cause he doesnt walk around being publicly wounded” wtf people really? Wade had a very successful career to distract him and HELP him move on. He was living a storied, celebrity life with all the trappings of financial success. That can buy a LOT of therapy. Of course he seems less damaged on the outside. Also some people are extroverts - Wade and would be engaging most of the time anyway. He would wear his wound inside - tightly wrapped up.

Also each man is the product of different family dynamics - how can so many posters fail to understand this???

Jimmy did not have those financial advantages. He will wear his vulnerabilities on his sleeve for a lifetime. Clearly he is an introvert.

Once you believe Jimmy, you almost have to believe Wade, IMHO. Everyone's seen the pics of Jackson hanging around and "playing" in Neverland with little boys. If you believe he molested Jimmy, do you think that he then stopped? If he stopped, why wouldn't he hang out with people his own age, as opposed to little boys (not girls)? The real truth is Jimmy prob wasn't the first and definitely wasn't he last. Wade wasn't the last either.

R13 Of course!

I remember from the beginning, when Michael was being see with young boys, Howard Stern saying -- "Yeah, Michael loves all children -- Where are the girls?"

Old old joke

How do you know when it's bedtime at Neverland?

When the big hand is on the little hand.

Did MJ ever pick little black boys or were they always white?

I haven't seen the documentary yet, but now that I'm an adult, I have to wonder - how could Jackson possibly have thought there was nothing inappropriate about sharing a bed with adolescent boys? He went through puberty, just like everyone else. He would know from experience that boys get erections and have wet dreams. And we're meant to believe that he saw it as a completely innocent thing to do?

Jonathan Spence seems to have been one of the firsts where the relationship was publicly flaunted. USA for Africa "We Are the World" was what? 1985?

R19 YEP

If you read the excerpt from "Michael Jackson was My Lover" he hated black folks. I completely believe this.

Repost to this thread for reference

BUMP FOR ORIGINAL.

[quote]Did MJ ever pick little black boys or were they always white?

Emmanuel Lewis comes to mind. Gavin is Latino and Omer Bhatti is Pakistani? or at least half. But obviously he had a type.

He liked latino looking boys or blondes. Sooooo gross

MJ was a pedophile but I still blame the parents. Naturally the kids wanted to stay with Michael but the parents should have said, NO!

The jackson mob and the bot fans will make no difference: jacko's legacy is done.

I saw this hysterical post on Daily Mail. From someone in Spain. Dear God.

“These weeks have been very difficult for MJ fans. I for one can honestly say that he has been a big part of my life since I was 2. I danced to his music, imitating his iconic moves from VHS. I collected all merchandise...He was my happy place. He was my escape in my teenage years as I dealt with the challenges of growing up. His lyrics helped me...motivated me and pushed me to achieve and realize my dreams. Seeing him in concert in 1997 was so overwhelming for me. I cried out of sheer amazement and joy. His death rocked my world as if i had just lost a beloved family member. Now, 10 years after dealing with the grief, I feel like my whole world as I knew it, everything I believed in, is being ripped apart. Yeah, go ahead, laugh at me. But believe me, I'm dying inside. I wanted my offspring to follow his music but now I am afraid they will be jeered at, bullied and taunted. people would still like to destroy him even though the burden of this killed him.”

So brave of these men to come forward with their past abuse. They will help a lot of people. I hope more men come forward.

The whole Jackson family are creepy. Good lord!

I'm afraid MJ's legacy is not done, the general public and even the young generation just LOVE his music even if they believed he was a pedo.

I think Jimmy and Wade are gay but are fucked up sexuality wise. Both are gorgeous.

MJ hated women. I think I read, in an unauthorized book maybe, that Madonna tried to get him to stop hanging out with boys saying it doesn't look right. She is then thrown to the curb and he starts dissing her hard, calling her every name in the book.

R31 According to Madonna, she french kissed MJ!

Madonna tried to get him to change. She was testing him and testing him hard. He did not like it. He hated women and esp knew Madonna would figure him out.

Everyone knew he was guilty, but it was all a joke.

I do think that is the reason he pushed Madonna away aside from hating women. She was too smart and he knew she would see something and figure it out. I think Liz was too old and sick to figure it out. She totally trusted him whereas Madonna didn't.

I believe the two victims and their parents were culpable.

Victims are culpable? Really, pedo?

Way, way back when, his cooks said his relationship with Ryan White was for publicity.

r38 no one is shocked.

NIce one Madge you let the lips that fellated 7yr old boys touch yrs. You should have finagled a confession, Set up a sting entrapped him and turned him into the cops.

Oprah is correct - we have to stope using the words “child abuse”, people are desensitized and Pedos love it.

We should refer to this for what it is - CHILD SEDUCTION AND CHILD ENTRAPMENT.

In the documentary, James (Jimmy Safechuck) said Michael said he was "his first" and there was a wedding and all. Do you think that Jimmy Safechuck was really Michael's first sexual relationship? If not, who was the first? Weird that all the relationships featured in the documentary were AFTER Thriller/Beat It--AFTER the very height of Jackson's fame. Did MJ just get too famous and snap after Beat It/Thriller and start going after boys? Or, did he have boy lovers earlier than Safechuck? If so, where are they? Who are they? Why didn't they come out of the woodwork for this documentary? Why are all the victims from the Bad era and after???

Jimmy was borderline crying with Oprah. So sad. I'm surprised he kept it in, barely, through it.

I fear for Jimmy.

I think he loved MJ and would have stayed with him until he died if MJ wanted.

R44, yeah... he's in a super delicate place, and it's very risky to add the stress of MJ fan harassment. Poor guy.

R42 It's shocking how MJ groomed us all to believe he was a naive pixie, just a fuzzy warm glow of love. He was a manipulative child abuser but he brainwashed us so hard some still try to justify or lessen his pedophilia, hence the 'I blame the parents ' ' they are after money', 'I only believe the broken husk victim' gang. All pedos think their abuse is a natural expression the narrow world doesn't understand, but Jackson had a unique platform and a horde of zombie fans and sold that message in a way ordinary pedos could only dream of. The fact he publicly went on dates with children, had 'sleepovers,' stayed at his victims' houses, in his victims' bed, all thanks to his fame , is mind boggling, even more so is the fact we all looked on thinking 'Aww, he's living out the childhood he never had'. Many people have shitty childhoods, nobody I ever heard of is impelled to relive it with funfair rides and kids' activities. The only childhood play that adults indulge in is fetishistic, like the adult baby scene. We all watched while a fetishistic pedophile indulged his lust, hope this has taught us something ( I exclude MJ fans, they are lost ).

R42 No saying that Jimmy was his first just sounds like a part of his grooming just like how he said he bought Neverland for him, it was just another way for him to make Jimmy feel like he was special.

I know Sean Lennon lived with Jackson and I think that was before Jimmy and there were other boys before Jimmy that he spent a lot of time with Jackson and in his bed like Jonathan Spence. If you're curious look at the links section of the website mjfacts and you'll find the first link is mjandboys which is a good chronicle of all the boys that were close to him. I don't want to direct link the website.

Macaulay Culkin & Corey Feldman Defend Michael Jackson

Lisa Bloom Tells Why Fans Refuse to Believe MJ Documentary

What I think Wade cannot tell us is that he profited from testifying for the defense those two times. I have no doubt that he was compensated in some way. Safechuck tells us just how nasty and combative MJ became with him when Jimmy refused to testify a second time when MJ called him. Jimmy must be lauded for his refusal to be used again, and telling MJ never to contact him again.

I love the argument that it was okay for Michael to hang around and have sleepovers with boys because he "never had a childhood". My friend was not allowed to date in High School. His parents thought it was wrong. So using this logic, this 40 year old man should be able to hang around with teen girls to make up for his lost adolescence.

This entire case is a major cluster-fuck of epic proportions. There's actually so, so much more going on here than what we see on the surface, focusing it all on Jackson alone. I believe there are layers, and layers of more criminality involving this thing. Parents, employees, associates, "wives," doctors et al - all of the actual accomplices. Everybody had their own agenda based entirely on self-interest. We hear about the employees, for example, who EVENTUALLY spoke out, but what about the YEARS that they never said a word? Maybe Jackson was actually part of some powerful pedophile ring which he thought would always protect him, have done so before. Maybe they cut his throat to save their own. There is certainly a bigger picture here, and I don't think anyone is ever going to uncover it.

Oprah loses points for mentioning that child sex abuse goes on in the Church and some other institutional environment she mentioned, yet she TOTALLY neglected to call out Hollywood and Washington DC as well, so she was cherry picking there.

The second most powerful act for them to bolster their case for them would be to commit to giving to charity any money from any award against/settlement with the estate. They could keep enough to pay for their kids' schooling (college tuition), however, and it wouldn't detract from the act.

The ultimate act to bolster their credibility/completely establish their truthfulness beyond a reasonable doubt is too awful to write down.

That said, I completely believe them. Jimmy is a lovely man.

[quote]Emmanuel Lewis comes to mind. Gavin is Latino and Omer Bhatti is Pakistani? or at least half. But obviously he had a type

There is also Brett Barnes who looks mixed race.

quote]Emmanuel Lewis comes to mind. Gavin is Latino and Omer Bhatti is Pakistani? or at least half. But obviously he had a type

There is also Brett Barnes who looks mixed race.

As I get older I realize that human beings are by and large not rational creatures and will choose to believe things that are demonstrably false due to their hopes, desires, or fears.

People love the music and completely buy into the larger than life aura MJ carefully cultivated. When you pull the curtain away to show the real wizard of Oz, they’ll just say nope didn’t see it and pull the curtain shut again.

religion, R56, vs. science

Are James and Wade currently suing the estate? They weren't paid anything to participate in the documentary.

I hope so R58 their lives have been blighted by Jackson, they deserve every penny, in contrast to the filthy Jackson mob who need disinfecting.

I agree, R56. There are many, many people who will completely disregard indisputable proof because the end does not fit with the view they've cultivated via their rose colored glasses. They are foolish. In the end, everything is rooted in truth and fact. It is only through truth and fact that we are able to know exactly where we stand in absolutely any situation.

God lives.

"Are James and Wade currently suing the estate? They weren't paid anything to participate in the documentary"

Wade has set up a charity to which supporters can donate money. It isn't entirely clear where the money is going. So even though Wade himself didn't get paid, the documentary producers may have made a sizable donation to the charity. We'll never know.

Read about Wade's charity at the link

Pathetic attempt Jackson fan R61. Your beloved Michael was a pedophile none of your besmirching of his victims will clean the filthy stain Jackson was.

I notice all the attacks are levelled at Wade, who has a more self assured air, Safechuck is off limits as he is so obviously damaged and if the Jackson maniacs attacked him they would look like the twisted mean girls they are. Even dismissing Wade a a liar ( which I don't believe he is ) the fact Safechuck is believed means Michael Jackson = Pedophile.

If Robson's charity is a 501(3)(c), all that information, including how much its managers are being paid, will be disclosed.

R61 Truthfully, unlike Oprah they are going to need every penny over the next several years if they want any kind of peace and normality in their lives away from Michael's demented fanclub. I say they are entitled to get whatever they can.

The Jackson’s have a smear campaign against Wade Robson coming. Tito’s son has threatened Wade in several interviews.

It reminds me of scientologists asking critics “have you ever raped a baby? What are your crimes!?” When called out. It’s a cult.

The documentary does mention a boy of color — blatino? — who came after Wade. The Robson family says he was one who got the 12-month “marriage” treatment after Wade.

Michael’s public courtship of Webster and Alfonso Ribero was also known.

But clearly, Michael preferred white boys and hated being black enough to cut off his black nose, bleach his skin and straighten his hair.

Then he bought white kids to “raise.”

Robson and Safechuck told us exactly how they were compensated in the documentary, R50.

Jackson told Robson he would continue giving Robson choreography work and fund his future projects and dance school.

Likewise, with Safechuck, Michael paid for his film schooling and film projects.

^You neglect to mention that Safechuck's Mum stated that a sizable loan from Michael was completely forgiven after Jimmy testified the that first time. I'm thinking more along the lines of such compensation.

Protests outside HQ of Channel 4 in London, documentary due to air on that channel in the U.K. tonight.

He created a childlike imp for a gullible public, me included, and used it as a grooming tool ( 'have you seen my childhood?' ) preparing the way for us accepting his inappropriate romantic relationships with obscenely young boys, 'He's just a kid himself! How cute'. All this was masking a sick pervert, who told a 7 year old he was his first love and had introduced to kissing with tongues! From what we've heard and it is totally believable, there are certainly others out there he has victimized . Other performers unmasked as pedophiles have disappeared from the scene entirely ( Gary Glitter, Jonathan King, Rolf Harris ) but only in the UK and nobody approaching the iconic status of Jackson, so this is a test of what society will tolerate in exchange for entertainment. Gary Glitter...who cares? Michael Jackson...ouch! Is Jackson's music so important that we can overlook his heinous crimes? I can't but I don't think it should be necessary to ban him, good taste should dictate the situation, I'd prefer not to hear his music anymore , other people have their own choice but I think in the face of the ridiculously overwhelming evidence they should have the decency to admit the reality of his pedophila and not attack his victims to make their choice more comfortable for themselves.

Corey speaks again:

I swore I wan't going to see it because it was too disturbing, but I broke down after all the coverage and started watching it. Couldn't finish it though. My question: Did the grandparents ever tell their own child to say No to Jackson?

This is why many people aren’t convinced of MJ’s guilt:

McCauley Culkin and Corey Feldman are sincere and credible sources with nothing to gain while Robson and Safechuck lost credibility when they testified under oath, regardless of whether or not they are telling the truth now.

Say what you will about Feldman, but he has been outspoken about child abuse in Hollywood for years. If he thought MJ we’re guilty, he’d at least allude it it.

When I hear Culkin and Feldman, I believe them. I’m not aware of any lies they’ve ever told and they seem credible. Robson and Safechuck’s credibility was compromised as soon as the documentary began due to their previous testimonies. Watching the documentary, I wondered the entire time if the men were being truthful and looked for outward signs of deception. It crossed my mind that Jimmy may be so broken and fragile due to the possibility that he is actually lying about Michael and feels horrible about it.

Finally, the director didn’t gain any love, trust or credibility during the Oprah interview. If anything, he seemed to try to mirror Oprah’s comments to gain her approval.

Most people aren’t experts on the MJ pedophile timeline. People want hard evidence. If there were hard evidence, MJ would have been put in prison.

[quote] The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool.

- Stephen King

I had friends who had stores on Melrose ave during that time, one had a vintage toy store, and saw mj a lot, they all said hell yes the rumors were true, he would come in the shops often with different boys, around 9 or ten, and let it be known he was a kinky bastard... kissing them in front of others, going to the toilet with them, etc...high as a kite.... they took his $ but thought he was a piece of shit.

I hope his music goes to hell

Please. Culkin and Corey may not have been victims of MJ, but that in no way indicates others were not. He was clearly a pedo. Lets not forget the porn and other shit that was found.

oh please, caulkin and Feldman have zero cred compared with the many that hve come out and say jacko was a ass sucker of 7 yr olds...

Friends of both, say they were....

BE strong wade and james and all others, we believe u, and know the Jacksons and Sony are $$$ whores.

If there were a go fund me for james safechuck, I would donate. he came across as genuine and sweet and TRUTHFUL.

Safechuck was a child when he testified under oath and was coached. t blows my mind that people keep using that against him

Most of his defenders are paid robots who blog for ten bux an hour....

I'd donate to Jimmy too, and I'd be his cuddly and devoted sex slave.

[quote]Wade has set up a charity to which supporters can donate money.

Just like Michael did with the Heal the World Foundation.

[quote]I hope his music goes to hell

Then you better send Elvis and The Wife-Beatles there too.

#MuteWhiteMusic

Terrible false equivalency

[quote]Stephen King

Did nothing to stop the abuse of Brad Renfro.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R74 I've seen you Jackson Zombie Fans use the 'Many People' line here a few times, it's straight from the Trump playbook, same attempt to undermine your target but I'm afraid the games up Pedo Pan is stripped of the mask and we see the sad man who craved romantic and sexual relationships with children, if you don't want to lose the music from your life that's your choice but it's pathetic at this point to deny Jackson was a voracious pedophile.

R72 I appreciate Feldman rethinking his initial reaction, and taking new information into consideration. I hope Macaulay Culkin does the same, at some point.

The brothers speak

Taj and Marlon

elvis and beatles did not seduce 9 yr old innocent boys.....get real

Sorry, r48!

One of Michael's Neverland cooks caught Michael jerking Macaulay Culkin's undeveloped genitals when Culkin was only 11 years old.

So we know Culkin is lying.

And wasn't Feldman threatening to expose Hollywood 'predators' recently, in what many observers considered a blackmail plot to get money, too?

the Jackson brothers and nephews are dumb clucks with no career and feed off jacko's estate.....what do u expect???? they are cannibals on the bodys of them that was abused. how do they sleep?

Way back when LaToya was under the control of that manager, she often said of course none of the family would speak against him because he was their meal ticket and none of them have worked in years. Weird truth coming from her.

Pedophiles choose their victims very carefully. Michael knew that Jordan Chandler, Wade, and Safechuck were all vulnerable and that no one would believe them if they accused Jackson of being a sex pest. Who's going to believe some starstruck, poor kid who confuses fantasy with reality over a grown man?

Mac Culkin and Corey Feldman weren't as vulnerable since they were celebrities with some amount of power. It makes total sense that MJ would steer clear of any funny business with those two.

Of course, people want to see it as either/or: Either he abused all kids or he abused no kids. That's the kind of thinking that kept MJ out of jail.

Wade is going to get more attacks because he tried to sue the Jackson estate for money, r63.

Safechuck did not.

I really want to watch the Oprah interview but I'm not American. Does anyone have a link?

R74 see R72.

That was a great interview with Corey Feldman. Thanks for posting, R74.

Sorry, I meant R72. Thanks for posting.

r73, Safechuck and Robson always lied to their parents and grandparents about the sexual activity until just a couple of years ago.

Loved it when Feldman said they were believable because they explained the grooming process so well. I agree. That is probably my main argument for believing it too.

R63 Fucking preach! Nobody dares to go after James because they all know he's telling the truth, his voice, face and body language said it all.

People blaming the parents are dodging how massively famous Jackson was, it would have been like a king or emperor landing in an ordinary family's home and befriending them, it must have been overwhelming, many may have sensed weirdness and backed away but for star struck slightly dumb fans, hand-picked by Jackson, it was a dream come true. The parents definitely failed their boys but the blame should be focused on the manipulative perpetrator rather than the feckless enablers .

[quote] Mac Culkin and Corey Feldman weren't as vulnerable since they were celebrities with some amount of power. It makes total sense that MJ would steer clear of any funny business with those two.

I was thinking the same thing. Another aspect may be that it was in MJ's best interests to strike up purely innocent friendships with a few high-profile young boys. That meant that, if any of the boys he DID abuse came forward, there would be famous child stars on whom he could rely to say, "I went to his house lots of times, but he was never abusive to me."

[Quote]It crossed my mind that Jimmy may be so broken and fragile due to the possibility that he is actually lying about Michael and feels horrible about it.

DA FUQ?! How can you look at Jimmy and say he's lying?! Are you for real? You are nuts, just like all the other MJ fans. What would he have to gain by lying? Please tell me that. He isn't even in showbiz. Honestly, in some way I can get why people don't believe Wade, but you have to be batshit fucking crazy not to believe Jimmy. His voice, face and body language said it all. MJ stans are beyond help if they can't see a broken man who has been through an obvious trauma and is still struggling to deal with it all these years later. ¨

R96 Yet the batshit MJ fans will just claim the cook is lying, sigh.

r100 and r110 can drop the "only the powerless" theory.

As I established at r96, MACAULAY CULKIN IS LYING because Neverland staff caught Michael diddling Culkin at age 11.

Cults of personality are scary, sick in cases like Jackson, catastrophic when someone like Trump, it's a tragic human failing to worship obvious, sleazy hucksters.

And age 11 is still pretty powerless, no matter who is age 11.

Feldman's age 14 was probably later than Jackson's target range. But maybe Jackson watched Feldman as a younger boy in shows that aroused him.

Or maybe he just wanted a platonic friend with notoriety and accomplishment. Jackson had lots of those, too.

Right on R114 these people are insane

the MJ stans are coming after Oprah

Nicole's View. Because no black people are guilty of anything, ever!

"Treasonous Oprah!!!" LOL

The comments for that video almost make we want to vote Republican.

It’s fucking pathetic that black people are slamming Oprah, someone who has so much for the black community and black women, to defend a pedo who tried to turn himself white, down to his thinned nose and lips. Most of the people I ever saw MJ with were white too - Brooke Shields, Culkin, Wade, both of his faux wives, etc.

R74 Has no understnding of the law, and should return to school to understand critical thinking skills.

There generally is No. such. Thing. As. “Hard.” Evidence. So get this through yr pedophile loving or bot troll head.

There is CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS AS VALID AS your clueless “Hard Evidence.” People have been convicted of MUrder without a BODY due to CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE if there is sufficient tangential evidence of guilt.

Say if 2 boys unknown to each other describe the same moles, the same vitiligo marking on Jackson’s penis, if they describe identical Types of seduction routines and identical remarks “I have never done this before.” If there are records of $$ paid, if there are faultless testifying about conduct trained like racing to get dressed.

Jackson would be in prison today for circumstantial evidence - just like all those priests, church choir directors.

Quit being so deliberately misleading R74 it has now been explained to you. Just admit you support pedophilia.

Idiots.....the only way Wade could be have committed perjury is if he lied on stand that MJ did NOT have sex with him......your arguments against Wade make MJ guilty....

If all this is true, then is it true that James and Wade could be sued for perjuring themselves back when they testified that Michael never touched them? Their testimonies hurt the Arvizo boy and left Michael a free man.

R123 is trolling this thread.

Per Taj Jackson, the FBI held a 10 year investigation against Michael that the public was aware of and nothing was ever found.

^^Public *wasn't* aware of.

No R123, it’s an honest question. Unclench.

How many of you realize that Neverland began construction in 1988? Meaning that Michael had likely molested/raped boys prior. Safechuck met him in ‘86, states that the assaults began in ‘88. Adding that Jackson said he “built Neverland for me.” That is a powerful remark Designed to fuck with a little boys head.

Neverland was his screaming ID, his big cover act. This was a deliberate means to offer validity and coverup for his pedophilia. However Michaels seduction skills were highly refined by ‘88. He just needed a place to sequester the family that was not in a town or city or anyway in the open or public.

This entire situation will ultimately get far far worse. Jackson had this going on for years - Neverland was the ploy - he had the setup that Pedos only dream of.

This needs to be discussed in the public eye. Jackson SHOULD BE TRIED IN DEATH.

R102 The entirety of it is on the HBO GO app, on a tablet or Roku, and probably other places by now bc it was also aired on OWN so you should be able to find the interview.

R129 Thanks, I have looked everywhere but still can't find a link. Like I said I'm not American so any HBO link won't work for me, same with OWN.

R125. The actual scope of the FBI involvement is at the link. There was no 10 year investigation. If you look at the FBI's own website, it says: "Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases. The Bureau also investigated threats made against Mr. Jackson and others by an individual who was later imprisoned for these crimes. These investigations occurred between 1992 and 2005."

[quote]elvis and beatles did not seduce 9 yr old innocent boys.....get real

Elvis met Priscilla at 13. John Lennon beat his first wife.

And let’s talk about Frank Sinatra and the mafia, shall we?

And if you want to talk about moral shortcomings of black musicians just to be fair, there’s Chuck Berry shitting on women and James Brown’s record of domestic violence. And God knows Whitney deserved better than Bobby Brown.

And what about R. Kelly? He is a blip on the radar compared to MJ but the accusations are more credible.

And how much relationship drama in Dusty Springfield’s life crossed the line into physical fights?

Those happened between adults who had full agency to contact authorities or not as they saw fit.

If degrading the Looney Tunes for a 90-minute shoe commercial were a crime, then R. Kelly would be in jail. Wayne Knight was in that movie too. He was also in [italic]Jurassic Park[/italic] in addition to being on that show about nothing with that racist white ass Michael Richards. The boy in that movie was Joseph Mazzello, who was also in [italic]The Cure[/italic] with Brad Renfro. Spielberg didn’t turn on MJ until 1995 after the “Jew me sue me” lyric and the k-word poorly rhymed with “dontcha black and white me.”

And speaking of MJ’s film career (Janet’s is more accomplished) there have been rumors about Joel Schumacher for years. He wrote the script to [italic]The Wiz[/italic] and turned it into The Wizard of EST. Now Rob Cohen, the film’s producer, is facing accusations from his son who is now a trans-identified male claiming to be a woman.

This isn't about character flaws or morality. This is about a criminal atrocity perpetrated on children. Vote for the GOP if you can't differentiate between Hilary isn't likeable even if Trump is a compromised Russian asset.

R134, give it up. It’s being protested in England. How much art and entertainment must be scrubbed away before it can achieve absolute moral purity? They haven’t burned every Wagner score last time I checked.

I hate that there is not more anger at the parents who were so stupid to expose their kids to this abuse. I just don't get how so many can be disgusted with Jackson but not equally disgusted with the parents.

Does anyone remember latoyas press conference in Israel in late 1993 after the chandler case exploded? She said that she knew Michael was a child molester and her and Katherine had seen cancelled checks/money wires where Michael had laid off the kids/parents and Katherine was so enraged seeing this she called him a faggot.

I know she was denounced by the Jackson family and her credibility is shaky, but I remember a journalist who said that Latoyas statements were credible and accurate. Maybe Diane dimond or Randy taraborelli

1993 press conference.

[quote]People blaming the parents are dodging how massively famous Jackson was, it would have been like a king or emperor landing in an ordinary family's home and befriending them, it must have been overwhelming, many may have sensed weirdness and backed away but for star struck slightly dumb fans, hand-picked by Jackson, it was a dream come true. The parents definitely failed their boys but the blame should be focused on the manipulative perpetrator rather than the feckless enablers .

Feckless enablers? Are you fucking kidding me? These are parents responsible for the well being of their children. So you are telling me if you were one of these kids you would be all right with the fact your mother was too stupid to protect you fully? "That's okay mom, the king wanted to fuck me." "That's okay mom, the emperor wanted to fuck me." "That's okay mom, Michael Jackson wanted to fuck me."

Back in the days of royalty those parents, if it would have happened that royalty wanted anything to do with their kid, would have handed their kid over gladly with full knowledge. Why? Because they wanted the notoriety that came with that kind of attention from a royal. There would have been no coy "But I thought they were in safe hands!" No those parents would know that access could mean things might happen to their kid. It's no different now honey. Those parents wanted something from Michael, they wanted to feel special, chosen, and they sold their kids out for that attention. There is no excuse for that.

You’re also going to have to give up on everybody who was part of “We are the World” since he wrote the song.

That means no more Cyndi Lauper, no more Bette Midler, no more Willie Nelson (and thus say goodbye to “Cowboys are Frequently Secretly Fond of Each Other”), and no more Miss Warwick.

[quote]This needs to be discussed in the public eye. Jackson SHOULD BE TRIED IN DEATH.

We don’t prosecute the deceased. Why can’t you just accept the trial judgement and move on with your life. Show me evidence of jury tampering in that trial.

R144 unable to recognize hyperbole. He is actually being tried in the public eyes now. Richly deserved.

R76, didn’t you put that in the other thread?

Please explain.

I thought Wade came off as a little too polished and rehearsed until he spoke about confessing to his brother at the food trucks. The brother seemed to be the only person who questioned what was going on since the beginning. I don’t know if that’s because he older and wasn’t too involved with all the ‘seduction’ of the family. I found it interesting that as men, at the same point I their lives, both Wade and Jimmy went through the same mental breakdown and finally admitted that everything was true. To hear Jimmy say to his wife that MJ was ‘a bad man’ was absolutely heartbreaking, it’s the kind of thing a little kid would say about someone.

Wonder how many boys MJ molested throughout his life..the docu said 1 new boy every year..so if he started at 30 years old..and died at 50, at least 20 boys...

[quote] if he started at 30 years old

30?

Original bump.

Nearly 70% of child sex offenders have between 1 and 9 victims; at least 20% have 10 to 40 victims

An average serial child molester may have as many as 400 victims in his lifetime.

What if? Regardless of whatever, what if after all this time and all these allegations.....what if he had always been innocent?

Too much evidence now. That ship has sailed. The train has left the station. The barn doors have closed. The cat is out of the bag.

Just answer the question at R152

Like Trump, if he's innocent, he sure went out of his way to appear guilty.

You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. You can’t unring a bell. You can unchop a tree. You can’t turn back the clock.

There's more than one cat in that bag.

dig up the pedo bastard and lets try him one more time. then blast his remains into a volcano of burning sulphuric acid.

he will go down as one of the worst villains in the world.

for anyone who is interested you can download 'Oprah Winfrey Presents After Neverland' from the link below. Use addblock on the site and click on free download then create download link.

I would have posted the link for the docu too if it wouldn't hurt it's rating.

Yay oprah...she knows what the truth is, cant none one of the Jackson mafia touch her. she has god on her side.

the jacksons are bottom feeders (~) from hell

Michael Jackson is trending.

Michael Jackson statue removed from National Football Museum

Boy #1. Terry George (1979-1981) Aged 13 - 15. Claims Jackson sexually harassed him over the phone when he was 13. “He’d ring at 9pm on the dot three times a week and we became like best friends,” Terry recalled. “But on this night he sounded different. The line went quiet and I asked if he was still there. Then, suddenly out of nowhere, he asked me if I masturbated and that if I did, did I use cream? I was puzzled and said no. I said I didn’t know what he meant. When I paused he said, ‘Would you believe that I am doing it right now?’ and I could hear down the line he was making strange noises. It made me feel confused and uncomfortable.” Yesterday Terry – now 42 and a multi-millionaire businessman – said: “Michael was a musical legend and genius. But what he did when I was a teenager was wrong.”

Boys 2 and 3

2) Emmanuel Lewis (1983-1993) Aged 13--22. Hand holding, lap sitting, travel companion. Defends Michael.

3) Jonathan Spence (1983-1989) Aged 10 -16. Sleepovers. Jackson bought him a Mustang at 16. Lots of photos showing physical closeness like MJ with his hand on Spence’s thigh. The nude picture of a boy found at Neverland during 1993 police raid was believed to be Spence. Spence defended Michael in the 1990s. Didn’t testify in 2005. Hasn’t spoken about Michael since 1995.

In the wake of #LeavingNeverland, radio stations around the world are banning Michael Jackson's music

The amount of people defending Michael Jackson on Twitter is a disgrace. This is why victims don’t come forward in child sexual abuse cases

I fell in love with James Safechuck watching this.

If I can't get people WOKE, no one can.

Director of 'Leaving Neverland' Dan Reed Discusses Controversial Documentary | Good Morning Britain

Boy 4

Sean Lennon (1983-1990) Aged 8 - 15. Mark Ronson said he and Sean had sleepovers and watched porn with Michael when they were ten. Sean made a video that showed Jackson as a monster who torments Bubbles.

Stallone is so bright.

R170 Sean made a video that showed Jackson as a monster who torments Bubbles.

not only a pedo but an animal abuser too he was true evil

Boys 5, 6, 7, and 8

5. James Safechuck (1987-1992) See Finding Neverland

6. Wade Robson (1990-1997) See Finding Neverland

7.Macaulay Culkin (1991-1994) A close friend and The Godfather to Paris Jackson. If molestation happened, there’s definitely some loyalty issues here. Regardless, he denies any sexual abuse.

8.Brett Barnes (1991-2001) Aged 9-adulthood

Brett was on the Dangerous tour as a 10/11-year-old. Brett’s sister, Karlee Barnes, testified that Brett spent 400 nights sleeping in the same bed with Jackson as a preteen. Brett testified he had sleepovers with Jackson for over 10 years, from 9-19. Says nothing sexual happened.

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Boy 9 is Jordan Chandler. (1992-1993) Aged 13. Spent 70 nights sleeping with Jackson over a 5 month period. Later accused Michael Jackson of sexual abuse. 22 million dollar settlement.

A group of boys for 10, then Boy 11 and 12

10. Frank, Eddie and Dominic Cascio (1993-2004

Michael Jackson met these boys as babies. First invited to Neverland at 12 and 10. Spent hundreds of nights in the same bed. Went on the Dangerous tour when they were 13 and 11. On the HIStory tour, at 16 and 14. 10-year-old Dominic also joined them on this tour. They’ve always defended Jackson.

10) Anton Schleiter (1995-2006) German boy who was befriended by Michael Jackson at the age of 12. His friendship with Jackson lasted into adulthood as well. Anton inspired Jackson to write a romantic song and accompanied him on many vacations for over ten years. Anton has never defended Michael Jackson against the molestation claims, but also hasn’t accused him of anything.

11) Kendall Cunningham and his brother (1996)

Police found bare-chested photographs of Kendall and his brother at Neverland. Kendall appeared in Jackson’s short film “Ghost” as a 10-year-old. Has never spoken about his friendship with Jackson.

Wade purjered himself in 2005. He can be sued.

It’s a felony to commit perjury.

Boy 12, 13, and 14

12) Omer Bhatti (1996-2009) Bhatti was an eleven year old boy Jackson met in Tunis. He accompanied Jackson for the rest of the HIStoury tour and became the new closest special friend, Bhatti moved to Neverland a year after their meeting and became a part of Jackson’s family life, raised along with Jackson’s own children. Bhatti’s friendship with Jackson ended when he was 24, only because Michael Jackson died. Bhatti even planned to join him during the This is it concerts. He also had countless sleepovers with Michael Jackson. He has never defended Michael Jackson against the claims of pedophilia, but seems to remain in close contact with the Jackson family.

13) Michael Jacobshagen (1998)

Recently accused Jackson of molestation that happened in 1998 when he was fourteen.

14) Aaron Carter (2001-?)

Aaron was friends with Michael as a teenager. He has made contradictory statements about Michael Jackson over the last years. Very troubled man.

skip to 2:20 in the video posted in R170

Finally, Boy #15 Gavin Arvizo (2003) Aged 10-13. Accused Jackson of molesting him when he was 13. Cancer survivor.

Great review.

The biggest MJ stan/loon/denier I ever knew (at the time of the Jordy-trial) was a straight, Mexican-American guy in his late-30s, with a six year-old son. (He shared-custody, every other weekend). We had so many debates/arguments about Michael. He would become almost enraged in his defense of Michael.

I asked him once: "OK, for arguments' sake.....let's say Michael never touched that boy, inappropriately. He still admits to SLEEPING with the boy (as well as other boys) in a cuddly, sweet, comforting way. Do you REALLY think that's totally normal, healthy behavior for 40 year-old man? Would you let your son sleep in a 40 year old man's bed?"

He replied, "Yes! If he was a friend! Michael was their friend! Why do you automatically assume it was something BAD?"

Wow. That was all I needed to know about Hector.

WTF is going on in R170 video?

Taj Jackson interview. He speaks on being a sexual abuse survivor himself, by an uncle on his mother’s side, and says that Wade isn’t as innocent as he wants everyone to think he is.

I'm heartbroken for all the boys he molested.

They are but a few of "the butchered and betrayed and martyred children".

If you look at Jacko's work objectively then you see he is basically screaming to the world that he is a pedo.

1. They Don't Care About Us - reinforcing the notion to young kids that their parents and adults don't really truly love them. Only Michael does. Abandon them and be with Michael. Further reinforces his victim mentality (kick me, k*ke me).

2. DS - openly calls for the murder of Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon who was prosecuting Jackson. Song opens with a baby screaming in terror. Ends with a rifle shot and a call of death to Sneddon. (He MUST be stopped!)

3. In The Closet - Must keep his kinks hidden from others. Madonna admits she was working with and teasing him about it and when it hit too close to home they stopped collaborating.

4. Ghosts - this video, more than anything, is Jacko screaming his crimes out in plain sight. He even plays a heavily make-up'ed character who calls out Jackson's crimes. The children in the video are literally professing their love for Jacko and how his love is "normal."

Any other examples?

r183 And no, he would not let his son sleep in a bed with a 40 year old friend. Bullshit.

I have known a few guys who had sexual experiences with older men or women when they were young. One guy fucked an older babysitter a lot while he was 8. He has absolutely no regret and only remembers it happily.

It seems like many of them who feel bad, feel bad due to shame. It is not their fault. They weren't able to consent. It wasn't their fault if they enjoyed it. There is too much shame and I think especially for boys who have sexual experiences with men. Safechuck feels betrayed on a number of levels- he was treated bad by MJ on so many levels. MJ really treated him horribly and that makes him a monster.

What is DS?

Look at R22, Michael was an extremely handsome and talented black man. How messed up he had to be in order to want to turn himself into whatever that thing on the right is. So very sad, all of it.

R183, and then what did Hector say when you invited his kid for a sleepover?

R188 - The Way You Make Me Feel

Change ‘high heels’ to ‘high tops’ and it’s a song about a hot night on the town toy-shopping with a little boy.

Ain't nobody's business

Ain't nobody's business

(The way you make me feel)

Ain't nobody's business

Ain't nobody's business

But mine and my baby

(You really turn me on)

R141 Your Frautrage at the parents is justified but if you read my post without the red mist you'd see I agree they failed as parents but I am loathe to divert the blame spotlight from the true villain, Jackson, who ,as I say, hand-picked these people specifically because they were shitty parents, he took advantage of their bad parenting to indulge his perversion. It feels like blaming the parents is a tactic of Jackson fans to lessen his guilt.

[quote]They Don't Care About Us - reinforcing the notion to young kids that their parents and adults don't really truly love them. Only Michael does. Abandon them and be with Michael

Such bullshit. TDCAU is a song about the social injustices black people as a whole still face.

[italic]Tell me what has become of my rights

I have a wife and two children who love me

Your proclamation promised me free liberty...[/italic]

He’s speaking of the Emancipation Proclamation there.

some of the Jackson family members should grow some balls and say yes, mj was a peddy !

[italic]Tell me what has become of my rights

Am I invisible because you ignore me?

Your proclamation promised me free liberty, now

I'm tired of bein' the victim of shame

They're throwing me in a class with a bad name

I can't believe this is the land from which I came

You know I do really hate to say it

The government don't want to see

But if Roosevelt was livin'

He wouldn't let this be, no, no[/italic]

At R94, Taj revealed that Michael owned half of Sony’s catalogues, including Babyface’s music. He even owned the James Bond theme.

Just had a thought. I wonder if this documentary is just the first part of a sort of wave to come exposing some really shocking, irrefutable evidence to come later. Trickling it out, maybe.

DS is a song on Jackson's HIStory album. It is about "Dom Sheldon" but Jackson sings it so it sounds like "Tom Sneddon is a cold man."

They Don't Care maybe about civil rights in the lyrics but children are featured heavily in the video. Look at the subtext.

There is also the Black or White video where Cliff from Cheers forbids Macaulay from listening to Jackson. So Macaulay tells him to "eat this" and blasts him out the house. Later in the video after the rap all the kids surround/protect Michael and sort of flip off everyone else aka the adults. Like fuck you, we are Michael's.

Well gee, R192, given that I'm lesbian -- attracted to other adult women -- I never asked. Moron.

Read a few places that Jackson's greatest fantasy was to be stripped naked, dragged through the streets while an angry mob flung human excrement on him.

He would fap himself silly fantasizing about it.

"Have you seen my childhood?"

"Before you judge me, try hard to love me."

Hey, so I raped a few kids, it is your fault for not understanding me.

People will always believe different things about MJ. Some will say he's a guilty pedo who deserved to die. Others will say he's just an easy target who is being smeared now that he cannot defend himself. Nevertheless, I suspect his accusers (regardless of whether they are telling the truth or not) are motivated financially, which combined with a lack of evidence, will always make me question their story.

Wade tried to shop his story around a few years ago to publishers and no one was buying it. He wanted to work for MJ Cirque and they decided to go elsewhere. He even danced with Janet at the 2009 MTV MJ tribute. He ruined his credibility with his sudden about face.

R204 & R205, you could not be more obvious. Protecting your assess/family legacy/income stream. You know what he did. Shame on you.

yes, bigger evidence coming later. videos and phone calls. Bam!!!

run macauley run...

yea, he prob had toilet fantasy, wait till the vids come out of him eating poop. nothing would surprise me... or young boys peeing on him. the pedy was nuts and wanted perv all the way

This is the tip of the iceberg.

I just saw an Instagram story from a gay bar last night in NYC. They were playing Michael Jackson and everyone was shouting "We Love You Michael!" "We love Michael". UNBELIEVABLE and DISGUSTING.

I doubt that, the clubs ive been in the last few days are boycotting his music.

BOYCOTT THE PEDO

The whole garbage heap that is the Jackson clan needs to be rounded up and shot into the sun. Destroy their DNA forever. Every member of that family is complicit and sold out for money. They deserve everything that’s coming to them.

^Fuck off, you judgemental prisspot piece of shit.

Loons like R212 need to be investigated by the FBI. Sounds unhinged. Janet, Rebbie, LaToya etc need to beef up their security.

FF R212.

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Safechuck said that Michael called him from NY in 1989 after his performance at the Grammys, but the Grammys were in LA that year and Michael did not perform.

R211 What are you talking about? You doubt it? I fucking saw it. It was a promoters page. I would link it but it's a private page. It's Yamil X. You doubt it. Fuck outta here.

I walked into a doctor’s office today and they were playing Rock With You from his Off the Wall album.

R211 I just checked again. His page isn't private but the story is gone now. It hit the 24 hour mark. I think it was Castro bar uptown. They were playing "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough". I can't believe how dumb people are.

im reading the mj book by randy tamborelli. very good lots of details bout his affairs with the boys. he really kissed ass of the parents when he got fixated on a boy .. the jordie chandler stuff is wild,, paid him 22 million to end the trial....guess he not able to pay off the jury....an innocent man don't do that, fuk the lawyer fees, which would not have been over 7 million if that

Some club goers and dj's are gonna dig the kinkiness of it all. but its camp, not really dealing with sex with 7 yr olds stuff.

u want jacko sukin off ur little bro????? NO

agree with above. Jackson clan is nasty corrupt and eating off jacko's corpse, they must be driven bankrupt with lawsuits from the hundreds of boys he defiled.

Yea, lawsuits will be flying now, since all this evidence of his peddyness. easier to win the big $. hope they do . poor kids.

R219 Not a pediatrician's office, I hope?

his music was playin in a café today, but got complaints and they changed it. most of the place erupted into applause. I think this is the start of his downfall....it can be felt, even by the cannibal Jackson family, soon will only be a few bones for them to chew on...

R208 remember his immortal "there was doo doo on the walls".

he did poo play in bathtub . so sick but tru

lots more coming out

(la toya knows.....)

how many of the kids did joe Jackson abuse sexually, as they were growin up. La Toya had the diss on that stuff bak in the day..

R226 It was "doo doo feces". haha.

They locked him in the restroom for 45 minutes. You can see how far gone he is in that video.

One must only look at that pic and others to see what abuse he did to his face...total masochist/sadist to go under the knife till ur dam nose falls off. thus he needed hella painkillers to feel normal, and they made him willing to do.....anything. HE WAS OUT THERE, ONLY MONEY KEPT HIM OUT OF PRISON.

What happened to all the videos and pictures seized by the cops when they raided the pedo's house? that stuff must have been enuf to put him in jail forever, did he buy it back???? the collusion of the cops in protecting him was freaky. why????

$ speaks bullshit walks....

Yea those vids and pictures will make an awesome Hbo series. cant wait! bring em on. imagine how fukd up he must have gotten when he was drinkin and drugging....

How is any of this changing us as a society? Are we learning anything useful, or just feeding off a corpse?

^hopefully we are learning that arguments such as "never had a childhood" are not the exception to the classic signs of molestation.

Let’s see how rabid you fucks are when it’s Harv’s turn to have his day in court. Or Spacey. Or Singer. And those are PROVEN cases.

I saw a post on Instagram yesterday where someone said not only did Wade slip up when he said Michael’s hair felt like a Brillo pad ( those silky wigs and weaves MJ wore were hardly Brillo material), but that his comment was low key racist.

I really wish this had been on Netflix! More people need to see this so MJ can be “canceled” like he really deserves to be!! Netflix is where you get the most viewers and public conversation these days.

Michael Jackson will never be cancelled. Sorry.

R234, to paraphrase Oprah, these men's stories is bigger than Michael Jackson. This is about grooming and sexual abuse, how it destroys children and their families. It's about victims hiding their secrets in shame, or, if they speak up, not being believed. This is about spotting the signs of predatory behavior and stopping or preventing abuse of children everywhere.

This is an important film. So yes, we as a society indeed have something valuable to learn from Leaving Neverland, r234.

I believe and fully support both men, 100%, and thank them for their courage. They left themselves vulnerable to a lot of abuse by coming forward. What they've done here is incredibly brave.

I swear, some of the vendettas coming from the fans stem from the fact that they were not chosen for molestation by the great one. They are consumed by an envy so great because the boys show no gratitude for it and say it destroyed their lives.

The piers Morgan interview with the director was really something. I’m going to have to assume that Morgan was paid by the Jackson estate.

It’s amazing how Piers Morgan always finds a way to be on the wrong side of every single issue.

Why is no one mentioning the hard evidence of 3 jizz stains found on MJ's mattress, sheets, and laundry? 3 different male DNA samples came from those stains which matched neither MJ or Gavin. Consequently, they were deemed inadmissible in the 2005 court case. Had they matched Gavin's DNA, the stains would have been admitted as evidence.

Do you think that evidence is sitting in a box somewhere stored in the LA police dept? Could they test for DNA now?

Piers Morgan makes valid points. The testimony of Wade at MJ’s trials was so convincing he was the star witness for the defense. Wade’s changed chronology of events is convincing as well, but why should the public believe one version over the other? Both versions of his testimonies provide him with monetary rewards. Both are convincing. One was told under oath. There’s something wrong with letting a star witness do a 180 and receive money from both the defense and the prosecution.

Jermaine Jackson Defends His Brother Michael From Sex Abuse Allegations | Good Morning Britain

Corey Feldman: I can no longer defend Michael Jackson

WADE WADE WADE. That is their only defense. The way they pretend James doesn't exist tells you everything you need to know about these "defenders"

The FBI’s Case Against Michael Jackson: Eyewitnesses, Train Rides, and an Alleged Sex Tape

MJ choose his victims very carefully. Feldman was a loudmouth and hot tempered kid, so he kept it platonic with him.

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^^^Ya think?

Was Rowe the surrogate for his kids or another woman?

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Debbie is definitely her bio mom, and she willingly bore a child for someone she undoubtedly knew was a pedophile in exchange for cash and privilege.

I watched Part 1 last night, I am not sure if I am watching Part 2. I had a really tough time with the mothers. They seemed so in denial about their idiocy.

A surrogate isn't always biologically related. It's common to use donor eggs implanted in the surrogate.

I hope actually this isn't the case with the Jackson kids otherwise they are left with no known biological origins on either side and I don't think that's healthy for anyones identity.

There is no way Debbie isn't the biological mother of Paris. They look so much alike, especially when Debbie was younger, and Prince looks like the dermatologist. Don't know anything about the youngest though.

So we don't know who's the bio mother and who was the surrogate to Jackson's kids.

The article at R253 says neither Jackson or Rowe are the bio parents for the kids.

Debbie when young resembled Paris rather closely.

The Piers Morgan interview makes the director look incompetent. Seems he expected a puff piece and was surprised when he got pushback--which is his fault. Piers was a go-to interviewer of the Jackson family and was going to ask questions.

He could have just said "I'm telling their story" and deflected the credibility/lawsuit stuff. But when he stuck with "I believe them 100% and MJ is a pedo."

The obvious follow-up is "how do you know?" None of us do.

I have very mixed feelings about radio stations [such as BBC] not playing Michael Jackson's music anymore.

R246 watched a bit, kinda expected that Joe doesn't like discussing bc 'it's not fair to MJ' but when the one who seemed to watch the doc kept bringing up details he got visibly more and more uncomfortable, his face said it all. This man was also, according to him abused by several different guys so his head in the sand reaction isnt surprising.

Piers Morgan is a Jackson apologist. End of.

R264 Why? It’s not like the music is being wiped from existence, BBC is just choosing to not to play it anymore. Big deal.

R264 He raped a seven year old boy with his tongue. You want to hear music that came out of that mouth?

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'He asked me to testify,' said Safechuck of the 1993 case.

'I had rehearsed it so much, I was just going through the motions. They asked and I said no of course, just like part of my job to do that for Michael.'

Robson also confessed that he in some way wanted to punish the accuser in the case for taking his spot.

'I knew it was true, but I couldn't let myself go there - it just was like Jordy was the enemy,' he explained.

He then added: 'Michael told me that I had to lie and that's what I did.'

Safechuck said that during this time, Jackson warned him that he might have to be seen with women, or appearing to be in a romantic couple - but it was all for show.

He also bought the Safechucks a house after they testified in support of him in the Chandler case.

'He would just call every once in a while. He gave me a car when I turned 16. I was very much into filmmaking and he got me filmmaking classes,' explains Safechuck of his relationship with Jackson as he entered his teenage years.

What's interesting is that Jimmy says he was attracted to Michael. He didn't say he was confused or not knowing what was going on, nope... he said he was attracted to MJ.

At the time, Jackson was at the height of his fame, having performed at Bill Clinton's inauguration that year

Jackson also performed at the Super Bowl just a few weeks later, and became the first singer to use holograms of himself in performance

R269 It's getting harder and harder for the MJ nutjobs to defend him the more information comes out. Jimmy's own father literally said he KISSED him. Even if you don't believe the sex part and disregard MJ ever sexually abusing the boys, how is kissing ok?! A grown man kissing a child!

hopefully more victims come out

The defenders are really starting to depress me.

It will be harder for other victims to come forward, as it's likely that most of them took financial payouts to keep quiet.

These 2 seem to be the exceptions as MJ worked harder to brainwash them that he truly loved them and that they were in a loving relationship.

It's such a mindfuck for them to have had the abuser lavish so much attention on them that they still believe it was love.

R275 I hope so too. This documentary was one of the most painful things I ever watched. Felt devastated and angry and sad. I wish Macaulay Culkin would watch the documentary, see more clearly and speak out. But one can't out anyone and force anything - respect above all, although it would most likely rest the case for good and forever. Others will come forward for sure, inspired by the courage of these two man.

This Daily Mail reader is spot on.

[Quote]I don't think you can fake how broken Jimmy was.

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I believe Wade 100%, but how a public figure like Piers Morgan, or that idiot from Community could publicly support MJ after seeing James Safechuck speak is beyond me. They either avoided watching the doc, or are devoid of humanity.

Wendy Williams is a bug eyed idiot.

James was clearly in love with Michael. He says he was attracted to him and explains that their relationship was just like a couple. What Michael did was wrong, James was not old enough to consent. I'm just pointing out that it's obvious James had strong feelings for him. Also, James was slightly older than Wade, he was 10-11 years old. That's when puberty starts for boys. If he was attracted to a guy at that age, chances are he's gay. He's probably suppressing his sexuality because he's still traumatized about what happened.

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Why are you so obsessed with him being gay, R283? Does it really matter? Since that is your main take away from this, Jimmy was interested in girls and Michael clamped down on that. He was a master manipulator and those boys didn't know what they were feeling.

r283 but James was also very clearly seduced by Michael Jackson. He said in the doc that he really didn't know much about MJ before the Pepsi commercial.

How much of his attraction was natural sexual and how much of the attraction was gratitude for having someone lavish non-stop love and attention on him?

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Wade and James's sexuality is unrelated to the topic.

Robson insisted for the longest that there was no sexual misconduct. He testified in Jackson's defense at the 2005 molestation trial. You can't ignore that looks bad.

He and the other guy (who also has problems) have since filed lawsuits against the Jackson estate. They are appealing after their suits were dismissed due to the statute of limitations. Again, looks bad.

Hear them out, sure. But they aren't getting to MJ's money 2 decades letter with nothing but tears and an Oprah interview.

Paris should personally offer Wade and James a payout if the estate handlers won't. Don't be a hypocrite, Paris. Do the right thing

R285 Not my main take away, just an observation. That, combined with the fact that he pings, yeah, sorry for mentioning that he's probably gay. This is a gay website, is it not? You're right that it doesn't matter. What matters is the abuse he claims happened. I believe him.

Watch the documentary, R289.

Macaulay Culkin is Paris Jackson’s god father and VERY close friend. No doubt he feels responsible for her emotional well-being. If he made any sort of concession, if he even pulled a Feldman and said, “Didn’t happen to me, but let’s hear these two men out,” even that would threaten to destroy Paris’s fragile little fantasy about who her father was. It could also cause major financial problems for the Jackson estate. So Culkin shuffles along, drugs himself up and appears the very essence of brokenness in every public appearance. Just like Paris, just like Safechuck, just like Emmmanuel Lewis, doomed to a lifetime of denial and secret keeping, drugging thenselves up to cope with all of it, literally and figuratively hiding their faces. All of these kids that Jackson just loved so much and wanted to help are profoundly fucked up. Constant career struggles, defensiveness, living like recluses, acting like they’re simply eccentric people who march to their own beat, don’t play by the rules of the system, etc. It’s the legacy of every dead child molester, but on a far grander scale.

[Quote]But James was also very clearly seduced by Michael Jackson. He said in the doc that he really didn't know much about MJ before the Pepsi commercial.

Exactly. He even said it himself that there was an attraction there, on his side.

[Quote]How much of his attraction was natural sexual and how much of the attraction was gratitude for having someone lavish non-stop love and attention on him?

I don't think we will ever know the answer to that. All I know is he pings today and talks about Michael like he loved him, despite the fact that he abused him.

Since Michael Jackson fans won’t believe Wade Robson & James Safechuck. Here is a clip from MJ talking about having kids sleep in his bed. His answer is totally normal and not at all creepy.

Many watching the explosive documentary, “Leaving Neverland,” were left grappling with how Wade Robson and James Safechuck’s mothers could let their boys sleep in a bed with a stranger. Watch Gayle King ask the two men if their mothers need to be defended.

If you knew James, you'd understand that his sexuality is beside the point. At some point here I made the joke "he's equally disinterested in men and women" but there's actually much truth to it. His ability to have normal relationships or relations with anyone is nonexistent, I assume due to what was done to him by MJ. I seriously doubt that he has taken much pleasure in sex with anyone.

James is so right about Michael grooming the parents too. That is why he comes across as believable. If Michael was so innocent, why would he do that? The grooming aspect is pedophilia 101.

Culkin needs to get therapy, stop with his 12 year old bunny ears crap & tell the truth. It's criminal that he's leaving these victims out to dry. He comes forward and their given credibility. Culkin was the exact age and physical type for MJ's preferred victim. No WAY he wasn't molested. Paris has 100 million in the bank and is profiting by denying these claims. The whole family is sick and disgusting. As a survivor of sexual abuse, I couldn't stand idly by and watch fellow victims twist in the wind. Zero respect for Culkin.

Feldman has zero credibility. He even repeated the blatant lie that Jordan wrote an open letter after his dad died and said he lied. Ok, Corey, where is this supposed open letter? Maybe he is being paid off by the Jackson clan. How all these celebrities defended him is nauseating, if these trials were happening today, they would get huge backlash.

Watch this from 2:25. She said it, masterclass in pedophilia! Why would he do those things if he was innocent?

I watched the doc when it aired.....and the Oprah interview. I've read all the posts here and some of the information elsewhere. It does seem that Wade is having a difficult time. I also read about what the Jackson family said about him and watched the videos, etc. I think it's possible that Wade feels guilty about what happened and in some way blames himself for what MJ did to him....he certainly had the sexy dance moves when he was little and presented himself as a sexual object if some pedo was looking at him in that way. I think Wade has unresolved feelings of responsibility.....or maybe he was "asking for it".....neither of which are true of course.....but completely different feelings about the events and MJ than James has....

This is such a great interview. James actually did ask himself if he was gay when the abuse happened.

No grown man sleeps with children. This was disturbing from the get go and nobody in the Jackson klan or the parents of these kids should have tolerated this behavior. I don’t give a rats ass if he was a billionaire or the King of Pop. His music should be removed from the airways from every radio station and I am happy some stations are doing that. Neverland should be burnt to the ground

There is so much circumstantial evidence here. Why would Michael Jackson always surround himself with young boys of a specific age? If he was truly child-like and loved all children, why only boys? Why would he have sleepovers with young boys? Why would he KISS James? James' father even admits it happened! Is it not possible he did more if he openly kissed young boys? Also, isn't is suspicious how these young boys spent nights alone with Michael? Why would Michael have a boy in his bedroom, JUST him and said boy? Lets say I believe the far fetched story about MJ being a child and enjoying sleepovers with other kids, ok. But just one? Like... them two all alone? Nah, I don't buy it. The idiot defenders should ask themselves why he wanted to be alone with a 7 year old, why he moved the parents further and further away if he had nothing to hide? Why would he want to spend so much time alone with a single boy? And why did he have a new favorite every year or so? Like, COME ON! It's so obvious.

It's unbelievable that people try to defend and hand wave his obvious behaviour away. The man was a gold star super pedo that leaves other pedos with their lowly bags of sweets and cute puppies in the shade. He literally built an entire kiddies theme park at his home to lure them in.

Not a single man posting on this site would get away with even a fraction of what Jackson did so publicly and boldly.

Some of the classic signs of pedophilia:

They are often fascinated with children and child activities appearing to prefer those activities to adult oriented activities.

They will often refer to children in pure or angelic terms using descriptive words like innocent, heavenly, divine, pure, and other words that describe children but seem inappropriate and exaggerated.

They have hobbies that are child-like such as collecting popular expensive toys, keeping reptiles or exotic pets, or building plane and car models.

Love this reply to an idiot who claimed James was lying. It's a comment on the Youtube video.

[Quote]Whats your background, for writing that statement? Are you proffesionally educated in psychology? - Laughing and wincing are some of the most common reactions among abuse victims, especially for victims of sexual abuse in young age. Wonder what it takes for people (you) to defend a serial rapist, with all of the money and influence in the world at his disposal. Im not critizing the man or the music, but Safechuck shows every characteristic of someone who has been abused. Dont believe me? Look it up.

R307 Holy shit, MJ fits most if not all of those characteristics. Remember when James said Michael would let him interview him on the plane?

[Quote]They often talk or treat children like adults.

People use the police raids as proof Michael is innocent, since they didn't find anything. I don't see how that proves anything one way or another? He had access to boys, he didn't need CP or anything like that. Also, he was an expert at hiding, he had routines not to get caught. If he was that smart about it, is it not possible he was smart enough to hide the evidence too?

R309, their lies say it was the FBI who raided Neverland and that they investigated him for 10 years and found nothing, it's all fabricated. Police did find a naked picture of Jonathan Spence. I agree, he probably made sure to discard any evidence immediately. Like Wade said about the underwear. Michael was so arrogant and sure of himself that he went right back to his molesting ways after he settled the case with Jordan. In the Bashir interview Gavin laid his head on Michael's chest and held his hand. How can anyone still have believed he was innocent after that?

It's clearly the same 1 or 2 trolls on here who keeps making post after post supporting these guys. Twitter, Reddit, etc. is split at minimum 70/30 in MJ's favor.

Nobody in real life is defending him.

All the “look here, they are defending him” posts are all obscure far out troll sites. Only bots are defending him now.

R312 Nope, sadly not. Look at all the comments on Youtube, the dislikes too. Literally most are calling them liars and defending MJ. Let me just say those are not my words, I believe them. Sadly though it seems most people don't.

Jackson is a stone cold pedophile. End of. If he loved all children where were the girls? Where were the ugly fat kids? He only canoodled with super cute young boys, it's a joke at this point not to realize he fooled us all into allowing him to date 7 year olds in front of us. I think his genius for music is beaten by his genius for grooming , he conned the entire world and it should be a warning to us about the cult of personality.

Give it up R313, those are his stans/bots. Everyone I know in real life thinks he's a pedophile. In fact, my friend didn't even know about the documentary when I mentioned it and she said "hasn't that been established years ago?" Everyday poeple know that he is guilty. So go back to reddit and YouTube with the likeminded morons or better yet, go play in traffic.

His family surely knew he was a pedo and did nothing! That's twisted. They just stayed on the gravy train.

That should read 'was a stone cold pedophile' thankfully he is stone cold himself now. R313 I wouldn't take social media as an indication of genuine public feeling, the negative comments are from fans devoted enough to cry fake often and loudly, those who accept the truth are much less likely to feel inspired to say so online. Jackson is done now, his most loyal fans will remain steadfast but for everbody else the association with pedophilia will stain his music .Radio play isn't the issue, tho I'm sure that will decrease, the death knell will be the fact his music won't be in the culture, it's unlikely to be used for advertising , no company will want the controversy , or movie soundtracks, it's less likely to be a go to for dance studios, it's inevitable that his music will not be the soundtrack to life anymore, whatever the fans think.

Yeah, he did not love children he liked slim, super cute, young boys. There were no girls at the sleepovers, his staff stated that loads of gifts were trucked in & the staff assumed they were for needy children. Nope, they weren't for girls either. They were for his victims. Brett Barnes sold his soul and ass literally and is still getting paid off by the Jackson's. Culkin will probably never come clean - which is disgusting. Janet, his mother, everybody knew and let him get away with it. SOOOOO gross.

I experienced childhood sexual abuse and I don't think I can contribute any direct insight. However, at one time I attended a local support group for a time and have retained three life-long friends from it. We had Jackson pegged as a pedophile back in the 90s, and as you can imagine we have shared more than a few thoughts via messenger and telephone calls.

Two of these friends insist that Wade was sexually assaulted before Jackson, and again by Jackson. They say it fits a pattern within themselves. They also believe that Wade is actually the more fragile of the two despite his appearance of being stronger.

It brought back some of my more shocked memories of things I'd heard within the support group, when disenfranchised children, repeatedly molested by "loved ones" would have a radar for other potential molesters and seek out the ones who showed them the only expression of "love" they had ever known. Most of these people, but not all, had been foster children, never staying long in one foster home.

All the comments on FB, YouTube and twitter are bots now.

I’d say 90%.

My comment was directed more towards R311.

That's really sad R319 but it makes sense in a way.

In the Uk we recently had all the grooming gang convictions. One of the reasons a blind eye was turned for a long time was because the victims were thought to be complicit even though they were girls as young as 12/13. Many of the girls would defend the relationships or call them boyfriends. It's a similar mindset stemming from sexual trauma at a young age. Many of them were in the foster system or from difficult backgrounds.

I’m not defending MJ, I just have issues with the documentary style platform and how this information is being shared with the public. It is setting a prescedent and I can’t believe more of you aren’t bothered by that. Whether or not these guys are telling the truth or not is not the issue. The fact is they have been permitted to make devastating accusations that may destroy an individual, his family, his estate, and his future earnings outside of the court of law. The accused has a right to due process and the opportunity to defend himself. Right. You can’t put a dead man on trial. I get that, but there must be something in place for such cases.

The director has yet to convince me of his motive for making this documentary. It’s disturbing to think anyone could potentially make and distribute a film accusing someone of horrific wrongdoings without any legal investigation. What makes this case worse is that there had been investigations and trials and MJ was found NOT GUILTY (whether or not you agree with the ruling).

While the testimonies of these alleged victims seem credible, we also need to be reminded these testimonies were made for “entertainment” purposes. To sell a film. Under direction of a filmmaker.. and both alleged victims have experience in the business. This can’t be denied whether they are telling the truth or not.

Im not defending MJ, I’m just being real about the circumstances, timing, and history of the alleged victims and the need for due process.

Er, the first amendment. .

[quote]The director has yet to convince me of his motive for making this documentary.

the director cares about the subject matter and has made films about pedophilia and sexual abuse before.

R325 those are his stans/bots.

This is true his fantards/bots are polluting every site even free movies download sites which put this docu for download they don't want anyone to watch this docu.

Stakes are high for Michael Jackson's brand and legacy in the wake of #LeavingNeverland: "It's got to hurt"

R323 The 'correct' channel was used to try and stop Jackson when he was taken to court, but he bought his way out of that with fancy lawyers and forced false testimony plus the goodwill of an adoring public mostly still entranced by him even tho' he'd transformed into a gargoyle . His spell over the public has dwindled since his death, plus his victims have started to emerge from the stupor he put them in, so we see him more clearly now. I have no doubt whatsoever Jackson was an aggressive and prolific pedophile , the circumstantial evidence alone is convincing enough without the victim testimonies. That being the case I have no problem at all with this documentary laying out what are clearly facts. Your distaste at his life being disected is the fate of all dead public figures, regardless of their inability to defend themselves , biographies would cease to exist otherwise, it's his fault he had more skeletons to hide than most and any decline in his estates' earnings lies totally at his door. Your concern for the rule of law can be saved for a shoddy shakedown posing as a documentary, this is not it , it is a blunt and honest laying out of the facts, so you can sleep peacefully.

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Look at his song titles: Bad, Dangerous, Smooth Criminal, Thriller, Scream.. Speaks volumes now..

Link at R330 would show story, here's another with the details, Michael is Momo now!

Plus his swastika like armband, R331.

On a purely aesthetic note, James is really gorgeous.

I know MJs line was that he always wanted to help the children of the world. He wanted to heal the children of the world through music. He loved all the children of the world. But did he ever really do anything for them other than parade a bunch of them around and on stage like the pied piper? Have any charitable works been noted or was he only charitable towards the ones he wanted to rape?

Paris clarified that she hasn't made an official statement in regards to the allegations made by Wade Robson and James Safechuck in the two-part film, or commented on how the claims could impact her career.

"I actually haven't made any statements yet, especially regarding how it affects my work life," Paris tweeted.

Michael Jackson with James Safechuck in 1988

There is no way Paris won't defend her father. When she does speak, she will say they're lying and his father was a kind, gentle soul and the abuse allegations are all made up.

[Quote]On a purely aesthetic note, James is really gorgeous.

Yes he is. He's also the one who comes across as most believable.

My grandfather was known in the community as a wonderful man, he worked with at risk children and volunteered at a local primary school. He was also a pedophile and molested me. He had zero interest in my father, as he was male. I knew Jackson was guilty eons ago. What I find much more sick are people like his family. Barnes and Culkin who continue to protect a vile deviant. Your life is changed forever after you are molested. The manipulation leaves you broken and recovery takes years.

Paris Jackson is so self absorbed. Does anyone really care how it affects her? She wasn't a victim.

Link to list of items found in MJ home raid. In the comments section, there are two links to pdfs of court docs that discuss DNA evidence found on mattress pad and bedding along with blood stains on underwear.

What Macaulay Culkin has said about Michael Jackson’s sexual abuse allegations in the past

R323 I'm sure we'll get a rebuttal documentary just as we did after the Bashir one. Perhaps another 4 hour doc. 2 hours explaining who Michael was in private, which could help answer a lot of questions by those who wonder why he spent so much time with children, particularly young boys. Plus another 2 hours addressing all the contradictions in Safechuck and Robson's testimonies, and going over all the court documents.

R342 I feel bad for Mac, just as he was beginning to embrace the spotlight once again and gain new fans who enjoys his humor and nostalgia videos.

As I've mentioned, I have a few friends who were sexually taken advantage of when they were young. 2 were by women, 1 by a man. I reached out to my friend who openly speaks about his sex with the babysitter when he was 8. I asked if he watched the documentary and he said he did and I asked if it changed his mind at all and he said it didn't.

He was 8 and he initiated the sex with the babysitter who was in her late teens. They had sex quite a bit. They did everything except anal. It stopped when he was able to cum. He says he loved it and wouldn't change a thing. He said at one point he felt shame but realized it was because others made such a big deal about it he thought his good feelings about it were wrong. He said he enjoyed every bit of it.

I think for many victims, enjoyment of it makes most of them feel shame, guilt and conflicted. He said if he knew she was targeting young boys he would have an issue with it because he said he knows there would be boys who wouldn't want to but would do it because it felt good or they felt they had to. He feels it was wrong but he said it has not negatively affected him in any way and he thinks had it been a man he would probably feel differently even if he enjoyed it because he is straight.

It is a fucked up issue. I believe both Wade and Jimmy.

Ask Chris Brown if having sex around 8 years old had any negative effects on his life in the long run.

"I believe there are many other boys that Michael abused." -- Wade Robson

I think some of the problem people have with believing Wade is they expect him to be remorseful about testifying in Michael's favor before. He was a big reason Michael was acquitted, and I think people expect him to really grovel and express shame for that, and publicly apologize to Gavin Arvizo. Maybe even to Jordie Chandler, but only a real asshole would blame him for denying the abuse back then at such a young age. The most he says is that he wishes he could have told the truth sooner. He also told Oprah that he's forgiven himself (James said he's not there yet). That probably comes across as callous, and it could very well be that Wade is just a self-centered guy. But it could also be a sign of how far he's come in his therapy--he's gotten past the self-hatred/blame and recognizes that lying for Michael was part of the abuse.

r346 Not everyone is the same. Sex at a young age, regardless of age of the partner, has different effects on people. It should not happen but when it does, the young kid may or may not have any negative outcomes. That should be obvious. It does not mean it is ok to allow or want sex at a young age regardless of how it affects them.

Interesting Billboard article linked above. Proves that damage to the estate has already begun. Scraping the out of town tryout for a Broadway bound MJ musical had to be very expensive. If the public support was truly on MJ's side now, they would be going ahead with the musical.

I just hope the damage continues and it's not swept under the rug. Notice how it's only Europe that has banned his music and removed his statue. He needs this to go down on his permanent record, so when people think Michael Jackson, they think pedophile.

Oprah has another thing coming if she expects us to forget about that South African school of hers where girls were abused.

R352, your nonstop whatabouts are silly and irrelevant. All you're doing is demonstrating how not-seriously you take child abuse.

So wrong, yet hysterical

[quote]What's interesting is that Jimmy says he was attracted to Michael. He didn't say he was confused or not knowing what was going on, nope... he said he was attracted to MJ.

Well, who wouldn't want to fuck this?

I'm sure Oprah is quaking in her Louboutins, R352. Hey, you'll always have bug eyed, duggie, low rent Wendy Williams.

Culkin was asked if he did heroin & he straight up lied. I mean he looked like a corpse and lived with Pete Doherty WTF. I think he's a complete liar and could totally change Jackson's legacy if he came clean.

R357 Who knows, maybe if he's serious about getting clean he might tell the truth about what MJ did. Might be terapeutic.

Culkin is stuck though. If he comes clean, he'll be called a liar. He seems to still have hope of a career, so I'm sure he doesn't want the MJ wackos making his life miserable like they are trying to do to these other men. He's also Paris's godfather. I think a better bet would be Jonathan Spence or even Brett Barnes, if he ever comes to his senses. Jordan Chandler should do the follow-up the director of the documentary is interested in. He has been so harassed by the wackos that he's scared of renewed harassment,

Lisa Marie Presley looks like a butch version of Kristen Stewart.

someone make a thread for this

BOMBSHELL FOOTAGE Michael Jackson sexually abused me as I begged him to stop, terrified 13-year-old cancer patient Gavin Arvizo tells cops in shocking video

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R355 when Jimmy was around (the "Bad" era), Michael's face wasn't such a mess. He clearly had a ton of plastic surgery by then, but he still looked like a real flesh and blood human. And objectively he still looked good, just not at all like himself. It was in the late 90s when his face became the weird alien/pixie mask-like look.

Good points R359. MJ fans are really scary, sick bunch of loons. It's unconscionable of Culkin to not fess up though (IMO)

R359 Is it true Jordan Chandler lied about MJ abusing him? That's what the MJ fans are saying but I don't know the story.

No Chandler never recanted & the FBI also never investigated MJ for ten years. These weirdos have their talking points. Jackson was going to go to trial until Chandler presented police with a dead on description of his genitals. Then he paid hime 23-25 million. He knew he was done.

So what if some lied? Obviously some will and did lie. It doesn't take away from the fact many didn't lie, either saying he did or didn't abuse them.

It is clear he did abuse some.

I always found him creepy and never thought he was sexy in the least. After Thriller, his music really was just ehhh. He never truly evolved as an artist and kept the same moves and vocal ticks throughout his career. I also hated his voice. I think, while he was incredibly charismatic and could dance great, he was overrated. Great entertainer but I always wondered how much he truly wrote the lyrics to his songs. Either way, I only like a handful of his songs. I don't think he was a musical genius. Prince was a musical genius. MJ was gifted but not a genuis or he would have evolved a lot more.

Charges were never brought against Jackson that related to Chandler’s claims after it emerged the boy’s father could have been attempting to extort Jackson and the boy’s mother said the singer never touched her son.

Chandler though was able to describe the appearance of Jackson’s bum, pubic hair and distinctive marks on his testicles and penis.

Jackson ultimately settled with the boy’s family for $23million and no charges were ever brought.

I have a feeling that, if Jimmy and Wade get any money out of the Jackson estate, lots of grown men will be visiting their lawyers.

[quote] disenfranchised children, repeatedly molested by "loved ones" would have a radar for other potential molesters and seek out the ones who showed them the only expression of "love" they had ever known.

Late in her life my mother confessed she'd been molested by her father. I went back over the years and the times she spent with her father when I was a kid. She seemed to want his love and approval so much. It made me sick. But . . . I never thought of the grooming. Or that it felt good. I thought the Oprah panel really showed this well.

I think many have problems later in life because they cannot reconcile that they enjoyed it, in many cases. It felt good. They may have wanted or initiated sex at times. We can hold the notion it is wrong and should not happen with the victim doesn't have to feel negative effects from the abuse. I think many don't suffer after the abuse. Many suffer greatly.

Jackson allegation timeline

R368, the criminal investigation was halted after the Chandler family settled with Jackson and refused to cooperate further with investigators.

Did they find child pornography at his ranch or not?? The answer is YES. That alone should have been an immediate jail sentence.

He did not act alone. His employees. Safechuck's Mum stated in the documentary that the suites for herself and her husband kept getting further and further away from the suite shared by MJ and James until they were on a different floor. She explained that they were repeatedly told that no adjacent suite was available for them. This was Michael Fucking Jackson - a nearby suite damn well COULD have been available to them any time he demanded. Who was it on these tours that MJ gave the order to move the parents as far away from the suite he shared with their boy as they could? MJ didn't do it personally, I'm certain. The tour manager? Head of security? Bill Bray? THAT person is culpable, and complicit in the crime, and that person is just one of many.

They also found a safe. When they cracked it they found a piece of paper inside with the combination written on it. His employees had removed every trace of anything that could convict him. The safe was a fuck you gesture.

I would sue my parents too. Take every dime they had or will ever have because when you get right down to it, even with all the expensive gifts and trips the parents received, they betrayed their kids and made a deal with the devil.

The accusation by Terry George is interesting because he doesn't appear to have anything to gain by saying it. I read he is a multi millionaire businessman now so no financial motive. Jackson it appears didn't physically abuse him but was clearly building on his repertoire back in 79.

Wade mum was soooo disturbed. She said she couldn't watch the sexual abuse details. She still can't face the truth. That is a big F U to Wade. So disgusting and selfish of her.

If investigators found photos of naked children, Why in the world wasn't he at least charged with posession of child pornography?

They found books but they were commerically available "art" books.

2003 Victim- the Smoking Guns all the receipts

In May 2003, civil lawyers representing the accuser and his family were alarmed at details of the children's relationship with Jackson. One of the attorneys, Larry Feldman, represented the teenage boy who first accused the entertainer of molestation a decade earlier (and who settled that case for eight figures). Feldman, as he had done with Jordan Chandler in 1993, referred his young clients to a psychologist.

Dr. Stanley Katz interviewed the three children on June 3, and listened to their tawdry stories about "white stuff" and "Jesus Juice." In an interview later that month with police, Katz described the older boy as "very emotional and scared," noting that he purposefully did not press the child too hard during their session. He said the boy was "really honest and forthcoming" and scared that people would tease him "if this comes out." He was also concerned that a "crazed fan of Michael's" would try and kill him. Katz reported that when he asked if Jackson ever demonstrated how to masturbate, the boy "started crying and didn't want to talk about it."

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LaToya's 1993 interview. Believe every word. She later recanted when she ran out of $$$$ & had to go back to the family for money.

R171 Thanks for sharing.

R377, what do you expect from a woman who left her husband all alone as his mental health was deteriorating, to go to the US to pimp out her youngest son.

So much misinformation and circumstantial garbage being peddled in this thread. He was found not guilty on the most credible allegation (and the same evidence) when he was living.

The two or three people who have posted >200 comments should exchange emails and IM each other. Use it as a healthier way to discuss your own abusers instead of channeling it to a dead pop star on DL?

The twinks behind this doc had their civil suit dismissed, and much to their disappointment are unlikely to ever see a penny. Hopefully we get another 20+ years before another "victim" comes out with a lawsuit begging for media attention.

But, r385, he said he loved all children!

Get therapy R385 - what a deluded, dead star fucker you are. He paid off over 100 million to victims and witnesses. A pre teen described his cock and balls in graphic detail to cops. You're a real sicko.

Frankie Boyle is the best

R379, yes, the books were legal and commercially available. But they were classified as child erotica popular with pedos. In fact, the authors and photographers of those books were NAMBLA members and convicted child molesters.

Michael and Wade were the Sonny and Cher of their day in Michael's mind. Absolutely horrific.

Just no, R385. The trial was not on the "same evidence" as discussed in the documentary. That you need to lie says it all.

Sonny rimmed Cher?

No, Cher rimmed Sonny...

Again, please exchange Skype details so this thread can die a slow death.

That he refers to them as “twinks” says everything, R391.

You should aim your worship at a more worthy hero R394, perhaps one who isn't a pedophile would be a good idea.

r378 Weren't the laws a bit murky then? They changed the law drastically concerning child porn sometime in the last decade.

Typical post by a Michael Jackson fan- they are freaks. Like Trump level, Qanon, InfoWars level freaks

In this clip from the 2003 documentary, MJ says at 1:36, "The most loving thing to do is to share your bed with someone." Bashir asks him if he really thinks that, and he replies that of course he does. Then the boy adds, "You're taking the position that you use every single night, that you go into, you sleep - and you're sharing that with another..." (I can't really make out his last word, but it sounds to me like "man".)

Doesn't this seem like an odd justification for a boy that age to come up with by himself? It makes me wonder if he was repeating something MJ had said to him in private.

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R390 Sonny and Cher were never real they were both gay #mutualbearding

Those rabid fans....it's like a digital Jonestown.

Losers took over a good thread

The little boy in Michael fell in love with the little boy James Safechuck. In a perfect world, they could have been two grown men who found love. Instead, this innocent boy grew up into a predator.

Take a trip down memory lane at the Michael Jackson 2009 Auction

R385 thinks OJ was innocent, too.

r406 He WASN'T?

Time for a new Women's March, I think.

Wade Robson used to take her son to Neverland at 1:30am and let him sleep in Jackson's room. WTF were these people thinking?

Wade Robson's mom that is

He never dated Madonna. She asked him to the Oscars. She, knowing he was gay I'm sure, pushed his boundaries by kissing him knowing that shit would never go anywhere. Girl was on a mission. They briefly worked together but she scared him. He hated women and she was telling him his behavior with those boys was strange which pissed him off. He slagged her ever since. Didn't he say she was "crude" or something yet look who was the pot calling the kettle.........er..............hmmmmm

Madonna may have thought he was gay because she sensed he wasn’t attracted to her or other women, but she was wrong. He wasn’t gay. He was a pedophile.

r412 And she would have figured it out had he befriended her for any length of time. He kept any woman with any smarts far, far away.

That makes sense, R413. What does that say about St. Liz, though?

I don't think Michael did anything sexual with Emmanuel Lewis, he was more of a pet like Bubbles The Chimp.

Watching the post-doc Oprah interview, does anyone really NOT believe Safechuck is telling the absolute truth? Not possible.

I find it hard to imagine MJ getting M Culkin in bed and not doing anything, for a pedo Culkin would have been the world's number one sex symbol at that time don't try to tell me ( you too Culkin ) the king of pop didn't go there when he had the chance.

Liz was drugged up and didn't know what was going on around her.

One recurring theme in Michael's videos was him being chased by a group of men and him trying to get away. Looking back, it's almost like the guilt and paranoia about getting caught nagged at him and unknowingly made their way into his videos.

Or, perhaps, reinacting an experience of his own as a child, R418? I have always thought he was likely pimped out as a child.

R419, or possibly both? I'm sure he was abused beyond what MJ told people.

sir, Weinstein and spacey weren't sucking 9 yr olds asses.....they were rimming grown dam adults (some of whom wanted career advancement: goop, Jennifer whats her name, etc

mj the pedo will see his star and music crash to the dirt as his nose did.

'scuse me kids while I take my nose off to get it up ur rectums'.....

wait till his own kids some day come forward with horror storys, well the 2 boys...they have ptsd looking faces.

yea, momma robson was so upset bout her boy bein raped, she went to bed for a month after jacko died, wearing his jacket.

to the end of the film , she seems grossly in need of mental assistance. her voice is fake with nothingness.

R416, appareny R385.

So this was Jordan's picture that prompted Michael to settle. Was he using bleaching cream on his penis?

Pointing out hypocrisy among Jackson’s accusers and haters is not whataboutism. That’s not even a real thing.

Oprah was friends with the Clintons too. Just like Jeffrey Epstein.

R423, supposedly there are pills that also whiten the skin.

r252 the picture of young Wade with bleached blonde hair and earring and a smug look on his face isn't helping his case. I do believe him but he comes off as a bit of a fame whore.

R426, where are you going with that? He was a cheap little underaged tramp who “deserved it”?

He does come off as one.

No r427 but he was spoiled rotten and somebody should have learned to say NO to him, shame on his parents

Wade's mom just lived her life around Wade and that is never healthy. The oldest son was the only one in the family who seemed to see things clearly.

NO you cannot spend the nights with Michael, NO you cannot talk on the phone with him for hours and get hundreds of faxes from him

r429 Maybe getting his dick sucked since he was 7 years old will do that to a person? Huh, and who is to blame for that?

Jimmy's wife seems really nice but ill-equipped to deal with her husband's emotional wounds, can she really be of any help for him to heal? Wade's wife looks more capable in that regard.

Wade had heeps more anger than sadness. James had bags of sadness. There are stages one goes thru after trauma and realizing the true terror of being molested. James admited he self medicated with drugs. Wade said he was a workaholic. Anger, sadness, these emotions are real. People handle trauma differently.

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I wish Macaulay Culkin would just come out and confess to what we all know happened.

I wish someone would asks pointed questions to his brothers or whomever. In retrospect, why didn't Bashir ask about the penis drawing or why he settled the case after that? Like in the Piers Morgan interview, the director should have brought that up and what the maids, drivers and cooks said. That would have shut that apologist up.

Hmm. No statement from Janet or LaToya defending their brother? I have heard the kids refused to release a statement. It’s only the freeloading brothers and Nephew Taj who still defend evil diddler MJ for $$$

Didn't Liza with Z say something on Larry King at Michael's death along the lines of "It's all gonna come out and --" and then she stopped.

She was probably drunk and wasted, may have been about to shit her pants, R439.

of course DLers defend Michael Jackson's friend Liz Taylor!

Watching it at last....why is the obnoxious fame hungry sister of james yappin so much in this. we get the picture, she drank the kool aid...enuf.

Wades mom makes me want to vomit. she acts like she was the one dating and fucking mj, not her 8 yr old son.

R417 Me too. This is a well known story but I believe it was a chef working at Neverland that said when he was delivering some food to a room with glass doors he saw Culkin being groped by Michael. Culkin was playing some video game or something and had that focused and spaced out look that some people get when playing video games and Michael was groping him through his pants. It seems like one of Michael's methods was to get the kids so confused by numbing their minds with candy, games and drinks that they would be too numb to notice much. Of course it could just be Culkin dissociating too. I don't think we'll ever really know how far it went with Culkin.

Sean Lennon seems to be the more likely one to speak out some day.

Several clubs in Miami pulling all his music off playlists..

Damn, where are the secret vids Jackson had of him rimming that 7 yr old wade, getting his nipples worked over by the kid. What a piece of xxxx. The cops must have the evidence, why wasn't it used in the trial???? They bought off?

im watching the part now where he / wade said 'he would have me naked on all fours, and stick his tongue up my anus'.....MONSTER BASTARD

The parents were shitty in both cases , they were totally besotted with a stranger because he was famous and could provide them with champagne wishes and caviar dreams, but it's still Jackson who had sex with their kids, he is still the worst player in this ugly set up, the parents being shitty parents was necessary to Jackson to get the underage dick he lusted after, he sought out shitty, bribe-able parents because he knew that was the way to baby dick. The fans at this point are beyond hope if they can't admit their hero's failings as a human being, just because they like his music.

mother robson: 'I will share my son with u but u cant have him for a year'....

I cant look at mj's face ever again without seeing the face of a master of deception and child abuse. I fee like I have ptsd from watching this movie, but glad to know the truth we all alwys knew was there.

Were either of the mothers groupie fame whores when younger? what did they do with all the $ mj gave their son? stashed it for college?

Wonder if the mothers can go in pubic without a disguise, people must be freaked out when they run into them in grocery stores : THERE SHE IS, SHE SOLD HER SON...

Lets not be too rough, im sure both moms are in heavy therapy for their actions. we did not walk in their shoes.

Holy cow, it took a lot of guts for james and wade to confess to the sex stuff, since they seem str8 and have familys. hope both of u are ok.

'porn and candy, that's what he had...'

Neverland sounds like a House of Horror

Wades moms lack of guilt and sorrow over her husbands illness/mental and suicide over it all, is disgusting. she appears conscience less.

R455 I'm sure expert pedo Jackson spotted that in her and was delighted as it was his best route to her son's 7 year old dick.

Best wishes to Wade and James.....u seem to have ended up really great guys. we are with u and know u will make great dads! BEST

Yea, maccauley caulkin will never fess up. he is toast.

watchin the part now where that shyster Mark Geragos is defending pedo mike ' we will come down like a ton of bricks on u if u diss michael'....yea mark, and u defended wife/baby killer Peterson.

Watching how James looked at him and how tiny Wade was just breaks my heart. Things to fuck them up more, like telling the parents to take James out of advanced classes seems so gratuitous.

I am assuming Prince and Blanket did not go untouched. Even what Paris says is very calculated. Janet was right there having water balloon fights with Mac. Maybe he did not rim the kid in front of her but the vibes had to be strange as fuck. He treated Gavin like they were on their honeymoon, right on national tv.

La Toya was telling the truth all along.

Now Jussie, R459.

hey Caulkin, happy with urself for getting pedo jacko off at that last trial with ur fake testimony?

that why u cant sleep at nite?

and use...?

how many boys did he abuse after u helped get him off?

Wonder if jacksons big buddy steven speilberg knew bout all this mess?

jacko must have admired steven, he made so many films with and about children.....did jacko visit the sets a lot?

Who will play Jackson in the tv mini series?

will smith?

Poor Michael, so innocent and guilt free it took the strongest drugs known to man to get a good nites sleep.

Wade talked about that in the CBS Morning interview on YT, linked above, R462.

Jackson groomed the kids to cover for him from day 1.

If you lack personal experience with how kids are manipulated and the dynamics of child abuse, count your blessings.

MICHAEL is responsible for his actions. That is where vitriol should be directed.

The kids, whether known victims or not, were not responsible for the actions of an adult predator.

It is eerie and striking how feelings of love and protectiveness can be so manipulated in little kids that James still feels loyalty and a need to cover for a monster, even after making the doc and Jackson has been dead for years.

Occur to anyone that fans, attorneys, etc who defend Michael are in some dark secret way unconsciously maybe pedo too?

just a thought...

otherwise , why defend him with so damn much evidence to the contrary. just weird.. beyond reason.

'blessing the heavens with his moonlight and moonwalk'.....wades final thoughts on mj death

GAG

How much were the Jackson family paid for the tv rights to jacksons funeral?

The family has strong financial interests in his estate continuing to bring in $. Some are being paid to do so. As for the rest, it is like, as someone said, a digital Jonestown. Got nothin there.

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So I've been reading a great blog about all the allegations. They have a page for each kid. Holy shit, it's unbelievable how the parents kept letting their kids spend weeks and months alone with this guy even after Jordan Chandler. They basically sold their kids to Michael. Also, there are definite undertones to what they've said. They think what he did to them was acceptable and feel the need to protect him. Michael had the grooming down pat.

This is what Omer Bhatti said:

One of our favorite commenters, Andreas from Norway, let us know what Omer said in answer to a question about the molestation allegations when he did an interview with Elle in Norway (translation).

“I don’t wish to say too much about it, but I will say Michael in many ways was very innocent. But you can’t expect everybody to have the same view on everything. […] To him certain things was natural and completely innocent, things that not necessarily all people would view the same way.”

Frank Casico had a weird relationship with Michael. It sounded like they were partners. My money is on him as having a full on sexual relationship with Michael. He admitted he slept in the same bed as Michael hundreds of times. He had a relationship with him up until he was 24. Michael gave him a job as his manager or something and once again, he didn't like that he had a girlfriend. Always paranoid of what the kid might say and jealous. Frank also helped take care of the kids, changing diapers, feedings and said Paris's crib was next to his bed, while Prince slept with Michael, ahem. Frank also had 2 younger brothers that tagged along. They had a falling out over the trial. I didn't understand that part as it was written. Here's what said:

“Whether Bill intended it to be so or not, his verbal dressing down of Eddie and me was a turning point in my life, a moment that instilled in me an early instinct to protect Michael and his reputation, even from his own actions, if necessary. We were the kids, it was true, but when it came to Michael’s impulses, sometimes we would have to be the adults. We had to think of the consequences to his image and reputation at all times, even when he didn’t.” ~ Frank Cascio

I wonder how long James Safechuck is for this world? He looks haunted and traumatised beyond belief. As for the mothers, they should both be behind bars.

wht made Jackson turn to the dark side....

perhaps one must look bak to that lonely little boy, joe and kate Jackson...….wtf happened??

what a bunch of bullshit bout them cascio kids. u think they will tell u they were molested by that creep? must be hundreds of grown men out there too ashamed to come forward like james and wade and tell the world that bastard took their virginity.

cant blame them, but I hope there is a class action lawsuit where lots of them sue the britches off the Jackson Estate.

I can see why people might find Wade and his affect off putting, but it really is compartmentalization and a coping style.

I have so much respect for him, he is very brave.

Friends who were abused as kids, or who had lived through the suicide of a parent had it all come home to roost when they became parents. One said, when he realized how intensely he loved his son, he realized his father had never loved him. Och. Wade had 2 nervous breakdowns, but amazingly, he is still here, being a good dad and protective adult. His wife stuck it out.

His coming forward helped James and will help so many others. Despite death threats. So much respect for how he has taken devastation and turned it to resilience and healing. He has a lot of info online that will help survivors and help others to understand.

Wish all victims might find healing. Hope Wade and James and their families find peace and happiness. THAT is what love looks like.

The joke he used to deflect about MJ says it all.

R463, Jackson and Spielberg had a huge falling out in the late 80s and stopped speaking, something to do with the film that became Hook. It's not likely Spielberg saw much of any of this in person, as Jackson's aggressive pursuit of deep close "friendships" with boys seemed to ramp up after he bought Neverland.

Those saying I bet Elizabeth Taylor/Spielberg etc knew are right, they knew and so did we, we saw him romantically involved with boys and heard about the 'sleepovers' etc etc from his own mouth, we all chose to turn a blind eye.

Another thing to remember is that he had kids when he was with these boys. So if he was trying to recapture his childhood, which he had been doing for 25+ years, why did he need other people's young sons around? The sears portrait type photos with the kids were so strange. He also dressed them in the same military style of shirts that he had worn and encouraged all of them to go into filmmaking.

Omer's parents might have been the worst yet and that's saying something. Michael arranged for them to work for him and brought them to America. They and their daughter slept in a cottage on the grounds while Omer slept in the main house with Michael. A few years later they moved back to Norway and left him behind. He was there during the 2005 raid. Michael also selected another boy from Australia, but settled on Omer, I think the parents were an easier mark. It's really crazy stuff. I can't believe he basically got away with it his entire lifetime.

lots of weird stuff on the internet bout speilberg and his friendship with that little girl who died from his Poltergeist movie... freaky stuff

all his goofy movies with and for and full of kids...

Before those kids, there were other friends. The first one (public) was EMMANUEL LEWIS. Search for the pictures of them sucking on baby bottles.

Second one JONATHAN SPENCE. Very similar to James Safechuck. Blond, cute. Before Neverland. MJ's maid said they sleep together and acted as lovers.

Sorry, my English is far from perfect.

Life is hard enuf for kids, without having men in positions of authority usin it to get into their pantys…

Who can protect them, when parents are not near....

god I hope someone is.

theyr our future.

Wonder at what age pedo jackson started having sex with kids. was he abused by his brothers?

Yea, I wonder what all took place during his young years...

Two dead bodies have been removed from Ed Buck's home. Two dead black men DIED in front of Ed Buck and no arrest, no nothing has been done and yet there is EVIDENCE of dead bodies.

When will the media give this some attention?

Yes, I’d say that dead bodies are pretty strong “evidence of dead bodies,” R485. You type dumb.

[quote] Again, please exchange Skype details so this thread can die a slow death.

Perhaps you should start your own site. Then you could tell its users what they can and cannot post.

R481, Michael's "friendships" with so many little boys weren't really a big public thing until after he bought Neverland. Before that, publicly it was just friendships with other child stars which didn't come across as so creepy at the time (though it certainly does now in hindsight). When Michael befriended Emmanuel Lewis and Sean Lennon, and even James Safechuck (who was in that HUGE Pepsi commercial with him), it came across as him feeling a kinship with them having been such a huge child star himself, nothing really untoward. It felt more like "oh, he really understands what they're going through, he's a good mentor for him" not "WTF is he doing treating this little boy like a boyfriend?" There was NO talk about them sharing a bed or anything like that--none of that behavior between him and children became public until the 90s.

After he bought Neverland (around 1988) and turned it into this giant fairytale place was when the image of Michael with that weird combo of elfin Peter Pan like but also vaguely fascist militaristic savior of children really became a thing. That's when the Moonwalker video came out really pushing that theme. And when he started with the constant appearing in public with at least one child, not only child stars, but ordinary kids, usually a boy and often very affectionate behavior including handholding. It really was not a thing during the Thriller/Victory Tour years.

The reasons why I think Jimmy sounds so believable:

1. He talks in graphic detail about the abuse. He would have a really good fantasy to make all of that up. Also, he established a pattern, it started with masturbation, then oral sex etc.

2. He knows a lot about Neverland. Did anyone catch when he explained all the rooms? Even the secret rooms that most people didn't know about. That is a major red flag right there. Why would Michael want to take him to secret rooms? Why did he have those secret rooms in the first place?

3. He talks about Michael like he still loves him and misses him. He doesn't really seem to hate him or blame him. Sure, he knows it was wrong, but he still has feelings for him. Classic case of Stockholm syndrome. All these years later and he still loves Michael. Very common in abuse survivors. Also, if he made it up, wouldn't he act more like idk, angry? He shows ALL the classic symptoms of someone who has been abused. He even kept the rings Michael gave him!

4. His face, voice and body language said everything. How could he fake that? He's not an actor, and even if he was he'd have to be the best actor in the world to fake everything with a performance like that. People who claim Jimmy was lying has not seen the interview.

5. The interview showed a very broken man. But yet at the same time he kept telling us how much he loved Michael. Again, classic mixed feelings of someone who was abused.

6. He refused to testify for Jackson's defense in the second trial. That in itself should be enough reason to believe him.

One more thing:

He explained in detail how Michael had different security measures for warning them if people were coming. Typical case of predator behavior.

Only the insane or those being paid off would not believe he was pedo after that movie...

In other words R489 he looks like a victim so he's more credible. The fact Wade has weathered the abuse better does not diminish his honesty in my book, but it seems to in the public eye. I'd hate to end up in court and face a jury of dumb members of the public saying' he ain't crying enough!'

To further my point at R488, check out this interview of Michael in Rolling Stone from 1983. Forgetting what we know about him now, think about how he comes across then--funny, painfully shy, grappling with the crushing fame he's had most of his life, and (considering all that), relatively normal. There's no nonsense talk about saving children or sharing your bed. His friendships/relationships all seem to be centered around finding people he can trust and/or identify with:

"His showbiz friends span generations as well. He hangs out with the likes of such other kid stars as Tatum O’Neal and Kristy McNichol, and ex-kid star Stevie Wonder. He gossips long distance with Adam Ant and Liza Minnelli, and has heart-to-hearts with octogenarian Fred Astaire. ...

Michael’s show-business friends, many of them women not thought of as especially motherly, do go to great lengths to push and prod him into the world, and to keep him comfortable. ...

He might like to have children in the future, but says he would probably adopt them. For now, he has only to walk into one of his brothers’ homes and he’s instantly covered with nephews. He says he gets along with children better than adults, anyhow: “They don’t wear masks.”

Kids and animals can nose their way into Michael’s most private reserves. It’s the showbiz spook show that makes his own growing up so public and hard."

Again, back then there was nothing pedo-creepy about him feeling kinship with children, it just came across as a natural consequence of the kind of sustained intense fame he had since childhood. It was also balanced out by the fact that back then he was also surrounded by ADULTS, and lots of women. By the 90s, that no longer seemed to be the case.

R492 Partly, yes. It was also what he described and the way he described it. But probably it was mostly the fact that he didn't testify that second time. That makes him a lot more believable than Wade. Lying when he was a kid is one thing, lying again at 22 doesn't help his case now. I do believe him. But I can also admit I understand why Wade faces more scrutiny from the public and is called a liar, because it doesn't look good. Also, his lack of emotions during the documentary was just weird, like something was off. Jimmy showed all the classic signs of someone who was abused, but Wade? Nope, nothing. Maybe he's had more time to process it and that's why he seems less broken and upset. But again, it doesn't help his credibility.

^ Yes, the difference in reaction to Wade and James is a combo of the difference in their demeanor AND the difference in how publicly they supported Michael in the past.

R492 There's a reason why all the MJ stans focus all their attention on Wade to discredit the claims. Jimmy is more believable, period.

they are hired to discredit anyone who speaks truth, fuk em...they know he pedo but are paid to say he mr wonderful..

Are you guys saying you don't believe Wade? I have no doubt he is telling the truth about it all, he's just a stronger character than Safechuck, his showbiz career has given him the ability to present a front, poor Safechuck is a wreck, it's very simplistic of you to credit Safechuck more because of that. Why nit -pick anyway, if you believe Safechuck then Jackson is a pedo, why bother trying to discredit Wade, it sounds like you want to weaken the case against Jackson.

^ I don't disbelieve Wade, I'm just talking about why generally more people would find James more credible.

There is still a lot of widespread misinformation about what abuse looks like, what PTSD looks like, the long-term effects of trauma, etc. There's also been a lot of misinformation spread about all the accusers and the accusations. It's not surprising that a lot of people just don't get it.

Also R499 recent events in politics and now this have revealed the true depth of just how dumb the public are which is another reason Jackson prospered and is still defended at this point.

hope hbo keeps runnin that movie often. it speaks the truth and shows what a mess he was....

congrats to james and wade and all others who have the guts to come forward with TRUTH

Cleary, with respect to his relationships with boys, mistakes were made. We can be sure that, if it could be done all over again it would have been handled differently by MJ. Let us have closure.

I believe that one day, Sean Lennon will come clean with what he knows about MJ. However, I doubt he would do it till after Yoko dies. He's very protective of her, and wouldn't want her to know how badly she fucked up by letting him hang with Jackson.

How would he have handled his pedophilia differently R502 ? By covering his tracks better so he could have carried on fucking 7 year old boys? We don't need closure we need this to be thoroughly exposed and investigated ,it should be a huge lesson in not treating anyone as Godlike .

I remember Liza saying "celebrate his music now, because soon it's all gonna come out" the day after he died. Chilling, in retrospect.

That hideous freak she was married to who was a business associate of MJ must have told Liza EXACTLY what was up.

I'm still trying to make sense of young Lennon's "Bubbles Burst" video. Talk about creepy.....

R506 I think that video and song does a great job of delivering the feeling one must have gotten when let into MJ's inner circle and being at Neverland Ranch at 3am.

They censored [italic]The Simpsons[/italic] because of this. Happy now?

*NSYNC was founded by a dead fat Jewish pedo named Lou Pearlman. Pull their episode instead. Pull everything they’ve done this century and no one would miss it.

Culkin retired at the age of 14 and hasn't really done all that much since. His parents siphoned off a good chunk of that money. On the other hand, he lives a high-end bohemian lifestyle in Paris a la Johnny Depp, playing in some band which would hardly generate any viable income, plus there's quite an expensive drug habit, costly stints in rehab, etc. Now, lets put 2 and 2 together, who's financing all of that?

be happier when all his music and vids is put into the garbage bin and burned...pedo!

Why not pull the N'sync episode "as well" as opposed to "instead", if you don't mind me being bait inquisitive as to your mind frame? And yes, as often as I have "separated " The Artist from The Scandal so that my life isn't simply filled with gruel and fresh air, you know good and ready, looking like the Bizarro that he did for well over thirty years, Mr Jackson wouldn't have been able to finesse much in the way of being a paedophile in "civilian" life. Which kids, looking like he did and NOT being an entertainer could he have got on side? Which parent, looking like he did and not being an entertainer could he have inveigled to hand over their children if they themselves weren't paedophiles? I can't separate him from his music and him being an entertainer because of those dynamics. I rate those that can and STILL say that he was a raving paedophile. as well as one of the greatest. They aren't creating all over the place , in denial of the fact that Mr Jackson and his Hitleresque ability to groom and enchant millions puts him in a very niche category of psychopath. His music won't die. But his elevation will be severely dimmed. Be satisfied that he was a good artist for at least twenty years and that his music is still available to be sold. But don't expect for people not to be angry at the fact that Mr Jackson went out of his way to fool many and used his career, image, background to do so.

R508 and Michael Jackson was an anorexic Christian pedo. What does one's religion have to do with anything?

You tipped your hand that you're a filthy scum anti-semite. Nothing you say is credible or interesting. You're human garbage just like your hero.

R460, I was also shocked to hear James' mother say that she and her husband were talking bout college for James, and Jackson apparently told her he didn't need college, that Jackson "would be there". A true family friend who had the financial means "to be there" would have offered to pay James' college tuition. Maybe Jackson wanted the adult James to be financially dependent on him so that he'd have no choice but to be silent for cash. Or maybe he was jealous of the idea of the object of his affection being smarter than him.

As a parent, your goal is to empower your child with the tools to be independent. How could they make his time with Jackson a priority over school? Another example of how the manipulation continued to mess up James' life even after he was no longer in regular contact with Jackson.

I 100% know Wade and James are being truthful. But, I don't really see the point of pulling episodes, or banning music. The marketplace will dictate Jackson's prominence in the culture. Making big announcements or proclamations about it I think tends to trivialize what was done to those guys. If you want to take him off your playlist, do it quietly.

I know Roman Polanski is guilty, but I watch Rosemary's Baby. It's genius, and many talented artists contributed to it being what it is. Nothing is gained by making it more difficult to see.

It was disturbing to hear James describe the sexual abuse. He said it was love, he didn't think anything bad about it. He didn't think it was wrong. The sex was just them showing how much they loved each other. I felt sick when James said "It [sex] happened every day. It sounds sick, but it's kinda like when you're first dating somebody and you do a lot of it."

R514 I happen to agree and I believe them. I think pulling his music from radio stations will have the opposite effect, it will make matters worse. The MJ stans are nuts. Pulling his music will just make then angrier.

them*

R513, he also told them to pull him out of the advanced math classes he was in and they complied.

R514, I think it's about getting justice where you can. Polanski is banned from the US and is known as as a child rapist. Michael just kept getting away with his crime and everyone lept to his defense, including Hollywood. I think hurting his estate might be a small win for justice. Besides, here in the US, I don't really hear MJ on the radio all that much anymore.

So then, Jackson repeatedly sexually abuses James without regard for ever being detected, namely by the adult Safechucks, themselves. He also exerts control over the potential professional/financial future of their son by having them pull him out of advanced studies, AND abort their plans for college. They readily comply. SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT WITH THE SAFECHUCKS!

There was a news story about a MJ stand a few years ago. She passed away in her car from carbon monoxide poisoning as she napped in her car while waiting for her Dunkin Donuts shift to start. She got a lot of news coverage because she worked two jobs, both of them full-time, to pay for her living expenses. Some articles mentioned that when she wasn't working, her hobby was Michael Jackson, that she participated on several online forums dedicated to him; all of her spare money went towards traveling to MJ fan meetings/parties around the country where fans gathered to celebrate him. She was probably too young to remember the period in the 80s when he had been untouchable. Therefore her obsession would have formed after all the gross revelations about him. The fans are obsessive, even the ones born after the height of his fame, and they are extremely invested in his image.

R518 I totally hear you. I guess I'd just be more comfortable with Jackson's music going away organically over time. The idea of "banning" art just doesn't sit well.

he raped 7 yr olds

banning it is ok with me.

he was a psychopath to put it mildly....

Playing his music at radio stations is an insult to his victims.

Okay. I've just watched "Bubbles Burst" video again, and I read the lyrics. It's a play on the name of the Chimpanzee, but it's meaning is that literally, bubbles burst as in "I hate to bust your bubble, but......" The work speaks to the fact that after a certain point in physical/mental development, Jackson discarded his "friends," moving onto another again and again. My take, anyway.

R516 Exactly. Thank you. Making announcements about his shit being pulled only serves to further the victim "the don't care about us" mentality of his deranged, sick fans. Allowing it to fade, and for his place in the culture to be properly redefined over time is a much better and ultimately more effective way to go.

Maid who claims she saw Michael Jackson shower with Wade Robson when he was EIGHT 'asked to testify at choreographer's new lawsuit'

'I walked in and they were in the shower,' Ms Francia told the court, according to a report from the time.

'When I saw it I saw clothes on the floor by the shower...underwear,' she said, adding that she recognized Jackson's and Robson's underclothes.

According to TMZ in the maid's full written testimony she said she couldn't see what was happening in the shower but could hear Jackson laughing.

I agree R501. And maybe if Sean talks about what happened, it will empower MacCauley to the same. Like how James was able to when he saw Wade talking about it in an interview. And like Wade, Sean seems to have been able to lead a normal productive and sccessful life. While James, like MacCauley, seems to still be fucked up and haunted.

I applaud james...he seems fine, more sensitive yes, but he is got a fine family and good support. he will be happy man. blessings on u sir. and on wade and all others who were raped by mr Jackson..

hoping more can come forward.

I think maybe Jackson was repeating stuff he saw/learned from his dad at an early age....as is so often the case. his dad seemed super perv.

R528 one thing I happen to know about James is that, his mom notwithstanding, he has a tight family and extended family who really love him. While I worry about him, and how could you not after seeing the doc, he definitely has a great support system.

James seemed much better on Gayle's show than he did on Oprah or the documentary. I hope he is finding his way. I have a feeling there will be a follow-up documentary from Dan Reed. He's said he's open to it of Jordan wants to finally talk. Not sure in Jordan can talk though. Would a non disclose still be in place? I hope some of these others finally crack.

Michael might have learned the basics somewhere, but he had to have perfected it to suit his superstar status. He really knew how to groom these boys and make them think they were special.

R508, why would you pull the N'Sync episode because of Lou Pearlman, when it's the members of the group who voiced the episode, not Lou Pearlman?

Or are you just grasping at any and all stupidity you can think of?

Yes, I love James, too. I'm so glad for him that he can finally talk about what happened and to have so much positive support. It must be like a weight has been lifted. He still has a long way to go, but it's a great start. He seems like such a wonderful person and by coming forward, he is helping so many others.

lou Perlman had sex with grown men, who cares..

Wow, I'm currently reading posts on Tumblr and the fans seem split 50/50 on whether or not he's guilty. I didn't know what I expected. I've only ever seen people be overwhelmingly supportive of him on sites like Youtube and Twitter, or overwhelmingly against him on sites like Daily Mail. On Tumblr though it's pretty evenly split. Though the stans get the most likes on their posts (of course). Anyway, one fan stands out. I just read about one who was a fan of Jackson for years, but now couldn't support him any longer and thought the victims were speaking the truth.

Once again the stans are claiming both James and Wade are lying because they have sued the estate for years.

Corey Feldman is a mess. Look at the recent insanity where he claimed to have been stabbed, and it eventually devolved to where he was pricked by a pin.

That said, I applaud him for doing what so few in our culture are willing to do. He took in new information, and allowed that new information to challenge long held beliefs.

Again, I know that Wade is telling the truth, but he carries baggage with him which allows MJ's nutcase fanatics to claim plausible deniability. James Safechuck is unimpeachable. When he speaks about it, it's 100% credible. Him coming forward is the game changer for MJ's legacy. He's owed a great debt of gratitude by people who like truth.

R537 But MJ's stans are claiming they've both been suing the estate for years. Their words, not mine. I believe both James and Wade.

James comes across as more internally tortured and conflicted by it all. Wade is definitely more polished and pragmatic about what transpired. They’re both handsome guys, but James has a very attractive soulfulness to him that makes him especially compelling.

R531 NDAs are automatically null and void when a crime is involved.

R537, I had forgotten about Corey Feldman's "stabbing". He has some serious problems. He sounds surprisingly coherent when discussing these new revelations, though.

R509 is exactly right, I think Culkin took a pay off. He has homes in both NYC and Paris, plus a start up comedy venture (which I doubt pays). His heroin habit is indicative of a history of child abuse as well. As he's lied about drugs and had a close friend OD, yet still never owned up to his drub abuse, I doubt he'll ever be honest about what happened with Jackson. He seems to care immensely about how he is perceived. The thing is, if he was honest - he would be much more favourably perceived (by sane people anyway).

LaToya said that Michael had been molesting dozens of boys since 1981 and that she had seen the checks. I think that there are many more victims (obviously). Will then come forward? Between the threats from the truly insane Jackson fans and fear of being judged for taking a payout, I wonder how many will come forward.

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I used to be sympathetic towards Paris, but I now find her totally annoying.

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As Jimmy Carr once said: "I'm not saying Michael Jackson is guilty. But if I was a billionaire paedophile, I’d buy a funfair for my back garden."

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Wade did not want to testify in the second case, but he got a subpoenia and was forced to testify, so he lied again.

Michael claimed Omer Bhatti was his child. It was a lie of course, but he should have went after some inheritance. I bet he would have got a chunk of change, but he's still so hypnotized.

What does anyone really expect Paris, Prince or Blanket to say? Seriously? They saw one side to their dad and all these other people are coming forth saying something that does not jibe with their sense of reality. I feel bad for her the way she's being hounded.

I'm sure Bhatti was & still is receiving money from the estate R549. Absolutely. Pretty sick

Wade and James were confronted with the truth of their abuse when they had children. They both had nightmares of their kids being abused.

Given what we know about Michael's downfall after he had children, it now seems likely that thinking of his own children possibly being abused awoke many guilty feelings and he had to medicate with alcohol and drugs to drown out those thoughts. I hope he had many, many sleepless night racked with shame and guilt realizing all of his crimes.

Yes, both Jimmy and Wade refused to testify in 2005. However, Wade was subpoenaed and had no choice. Remember, Jimmy had told his mother at the time and so he had backup support. Wade had told no one. I think that made a huge difference.

R552, why do you think he needed propofol to be able to go to "sleep" ?

Isn't Oprah a victim of child abuse herself? I seem to remember a story about that, also she seemed to refer to herself some part in the interview when discussing it. How can the MJ stans discredit that? Shouldn't she be able to tell the signs and whether or not these guys are lying? Considering she interviewed them she must have believed them. Again, the MJ stans are talking out of their asses when they call her a traitor.

Oprah was definitely a victim of molestation and she discussed it many times on her show. In fact, the first time she did it, it was considered groundbreaking.

I think Jackson bailed Culkin out & set him up for life financially. He did not have millions thanks to his parents. This article is from 1997 - New York judge Tuesday took control of child actor Macaulay Culkin's finances from his parents, saying the accounts are in such bad shape that the "Home Alone" star might be left homeless. Culkin's parents have been in a bitter custody battle since June 1995.

Oversight of the actor's finances will be given to his longtime accountant, Billy Breitner. The protracted fight has caused the family's financial situation to deteriorate so much that "there is a real possibility of this millionaire and his family being evicted and left without any home," said Manhattan Supreme Court Justice David Saxe.

Either way, I personally don't see Culkin ever talking. This article talks about MJ's payouts of 35 million. It mentions a young actor getting $600,000. Could that be Culkin? I would think he would've gotten more to silence him.

Correction, it says the family of young, well known actor. So, maybe Macauley's with separate. I guess R557 and other posters that claimed MC was being paid off by the estate were dead on.

While some of the messages from the 00s South Park episodes haven't aged well - global warming is a hoax, the war in Iraq is justified, etc. - they did have the measure of Michael Jackson.

"We can do everything -

And I mean everything -

Up in my wishing tree!"

[quote]and Michael Jackson was an anorexic Christian pedo. What does one's religion have to do with anything?

Jackson was raised as Jehovah's Witness. Many consider JWs to be very cult like. I remember reading some article years ago that there were conflicts between Katherine and some of the Jackson kids when they drifted away from the JW religion as adults.

MJ stans are the worst. Completely hateful and obsessed with defending a pedophile.

I don't get the stories saying that Mac was a wreck. There are interviews of him dating back to the early 2000s and he sounds exactly like he does today. He left Hollywood at 14 because he wanted a taste of a normal life. That's actually a responsible choice for any young actor. He doesn't regret his decision at all, still has lots of friends who are in the biz, and works whenever he wants to.

Are you forgetting that he is a heroin addict? It’s too painful for him to admit that MJ abused him is my guess.

R563, he was most definitely a wreck and using hard drugs. He's from a fucked up family, probably abused by MJ and others as well. I like him and I wish him only the best.

MJ's private conversations. Worth a listen. This was the mid 80s.

My guess is that MJ hatched those kids because the heat was on big time, and he needed a live-in source of kids to abuse. I think the sole purpose of having those kids were to have kids to abuse. Having a daughter was either a mistake in the laboratory, or part of the cover up. He wasn't going to be able to molest other people's kids anymore without going to prison. So he hatched a few. And he didn't hatch black kids because he didn't like them. He died Prince Michael's hair blonde. I'd put money on it that those "sons" of his were molested, or were about to be when they got to the desired age.

Dyed^ (sorry!)

....creepy shit....

R552, Dr drew said that Jackson wasn't suffering from insomnia. He was an addict and was going through withdrawals every night which prevented him from falling asleep.

Somebody needs to get down to the zoo and teach Bubbles sign language. I betcha Bubbles got a whole lot of shit to talk!

He engineered those kids, selecting the egg donor and sperm donor. The first boy didn't look white enough, so Jackson dyed his hair while he was a toddler. (He didn't really care about what the little girl's hair looked like.) Then he flat out lied during the Bashir interview and said that he was the biological father of those kids. There's no way. During the same interview, he also swore that he had not had any plastic surgery, that his face had just naturally changed with age. He's delusional if he thinks anyone could believe those two lies. And he was also delusional in thinking that he could convince the world that his bizarre behavior with children was normal.

The animals Michael had on the ranch were just more bait for the kiddies. And they (animals) were horribly mistreated. Michael apparently enjoyed taking the kids down to the zoo and throwing rocks at the lion. And Jane Goodal of all people claimed he mistreated Bubbles.

[quote]Michael Jackson has been accused of assaulting his pet chimpanzee Bubbles by one of the world’s most foremost primatologists. Dame Jane Goodall says she believes that the animal was punched in the face and kicked in the stomach while living with the pop icon at his Neverland ranch.

Paris Jackson

Ethnicity: publicly uncertain

Lol

R566, his voice is really different in that audio. Did he mess with the Stein children too? I didn't listen to it all, but it confirms his self hate. His dad saying he was too black and had a big nose scarred him for life and contributed to his disfigurement through plastic surgery. He didn't like his family, what he said about Latoya was hysterical, and he didn't want to look like them. Although, Latoya and Janet look like they bleach and they def got nose jobs. I never bought the vitiligo story of his.

R573, they found images of tortured animals.

This is a better link with pictures. Also to speak of his hatred for females, they also found an image of a girl being strangled with noose around her neck.

[quote] he also swore that he had not had any plastic surgery, that his face had just naturally changed with age.

He admitted he'd had two nose jobs, supposedly to help him hit higher notes. But yeah, he claimed that the rest of his face had simply changed of its own accord. He seriously expected people to believe that the boy on the left could grow up to look like the creature on the right without the aid of surgery:

[quote]His dad saying he was too black and had a big nose scarred him for life and contributed to his disfigurement through plastic surgery.

He had the surgery because he didn't want to look like his father.

R571 Loved this comment on Youtube

[quote] did anyone else notice this. when latoya sad she missed bubbles at 1:25 look how sad he got. almost like he was crying. i bet bubbles seen Micheal in her eyes and he knew somthing was up. Bubbles isn't dumb, he knew that very instant that somthing happened to his friend. thats why he looked so sad. what a strong bond they had. its ok bubbles we ALL miss him :(

I read Jackson used to fill the lion's feed buckets up with rocks and throw them at him until he bled. Sick Fucker.

And Liz is the one who gave him the elephant.

He's gross & his enablers are even more disgusting.

This pic with Lisa Marie's kids is quite creepy.

This is the old DL thread with the stories about animal abuse. You can search for "Kimba" and read about it. Don't know how reliable the information is but names are named and some (a lot) of it rings true.

I’m still kind of surprised that James has kept all the gold diamond jewelry that Michael bought for him in exchange for sexual acts. He was visibly shaking when doing the show-and-tell, yet he still keeps them for seemingly sentimental reasons. I’m sure in total they’re worth thousands. It’s almost like he is a bit wistful about a distant love affair. Michael really did a number on him.

That's not uncommon R584. Abuse fucks you up royally.

Did pedo Jackson abuse lisa marie's kids? how will we know....

did he abuse his own kids? well....the boys.

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From the [italic]Michael Jackson' Fetish for Enemas, Tampons & Animal abuse[/italic] thread...

Jackson took Jordie, Brett and their sisters to see the animals in his private zoo. Jordie wanted to see the lion that Jackson called “Kimba.” Upon arriving at the lion’s cage, Jordie saw the poor condition he was in, not to mention the filth in which he lived. The security guards were watching the host and his guests from nearby, and saw the lion frighten the children when he roared at them.

“Michael saw that Brett, who was very timid, was scared,” recalled Abdul and other security guards who were present. “Michael then shouted at the lion, ‘You’re going to pay for scaring my boy [Brett].’ At Michael’s request, the children went to get buckets which were used for the animals’ food, and filled them with stones. All of them, especially Michael, began to stone Kimba, who began bleeding.

Brett asked Michael not to do it anymore, saying that he was fine, but Michael continued throwing stones with Jordie. The poor lion didn’t know where to hide.” Jackson’s cruelty towards his own animal did not end there. To impress Brett and his guests, Jackson told the children to go get fireworks and firecrackers from the house.

“It was incredible to see Michael Jackson, who says he is a protector of animals, throwing lit firecrackers and small bottle rockets at Kimba,” Abdul recalled. “We were afraid the roof of the animal cage would catch fire, so we advised the fire department by radio to be prepared in case something happened.”

At the end of Jackson’s game with his little friends, the security guards went to check on the poor animal. Since there was neither a veterinarian nor a caretaker, the guards, without any kind of training, were now in charge of attending to the animals. Sometime before, an employee had felt pity for the animals and anonymously notified the authorities.

“When the authorities arrived they found a lot of infractions and negligence in the zoo,” Abdul continued. “But they did not find Kimba. How were they going to find him if we were ordered to put poor Kimba in a truck and leave the ranch, and return when the authorities had left? The reason we took the lion off the ranch was because Michael didn’t have a legal permit to have the lion on his property, much less in the horrid conditions he was in.”

Yeah, you have to wonder about Lisa Marie with her two kids who were the right age. She knew about the accusations of course and went out of her way to say Jackson was never alone with her kids. Hope so.

lisa marie not the brightest bulb on the block...look at her husbands...

I hate pedo jacksons guts even more finding out he abused animals. they should splash that in the internet. he would be loathed beyond words. its a sign of serious psychopath , if u hurt animals, like Dahmer, they can go on to abuse and kill humans. true.

REMOVE THE FUKS STAR

Def a psycho , nothng would surprise me about this mutha fukka….lots more stuff will come out, this jus the beginning

at some point all the jacksons will be run out of town

R588 I'm physically ill after reading that. I can only hope that it isn't true.

sickening, but that info is on several reliable sites. when drugged/drunk, he capable of anything. disgusting. if they have film of his animal abuse, he is done, way done.

Are some of you seriously going to be more offended by the fact he threw rocks at a poor lion than the fact that he was a serial pedophile and preyed on multiple little boys?! Get your priorities straight.

uh, mary, both are hideous beyond words. ur lack of sympathy for caged animals being pelted with rocks is shocking.

It’s appropriate to hate him for being cruel to all animals. I am sick of the Jacksons including that nasty Taj for defending MJ.

R594 can't you feel revulsion at both? Your comment is really dumb, and without a point.

I do not at all have a lack of sympathy for the lion and I concur it is horrible behavior, but I am able to understand that it is not on the same level as ruining a child's life.

We need a new thread.

Here we go...