Michael Jackson doc starts at 8 HBo

Thank you for the reminder.

Is this the official thread??

R2 - Sure.

watching it now

its even worse than this movie shows

he was major predator, paid millions for hush hush

I blame the parents of the boys as much as jacko….

mj was such a sweet kid, wtf happened????

I'm eating some Baja Fresh while watching this escapade.

His hush money payments made headlines, but nobody bothered to do anything about it...and those who tried were shut down.

imagine him gnawing on those poor kids, geez, what a monster....

shopping with, traveling with, living with the king of pop

heady business.

butt at what price?

Bit disgusting seeing the parents speaking in glowing terms bout omg we with mr Jackson!!!

the red head mom is creepy, no remorse

Wade’s mom is such a starfucker. Even though she wasn’t the one being fucked. Gross.

R7 is like a dog with a bone, talk about obsessed!

yea, I could smack her, such glee in her voice over being with a STAR.

I’m that girl, watching Jimmy dancing around in that “audition” video.

'HOW LUCKY ARE WE, HE WANTED TO BE OUR FRIEND'.....damn mom, our friend??? he wanted to blow ur son lady..

i think MJ was a weirdo, sure, but I have a hard time believing Wade Robson

R16 right? I was like, um, not friends, mama. Get a brain.

ah, the jacksons and their paid trolls have arrived

This says it all:

1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

- - -

I mean, how can anyone deny that he was a pedophile? These are facts.

let the defense of poor maligned jacko begin

Date night.

Well said #20

This is such a clear exposé on grooming.

holy shit, the moms are despicable !!!!!

Moms in this film should be wearing a sign: SONS FOR SALE

I’m shocked mom got to go along on this Hawaii vacay. MJ was feeling generous.

i just have a problem with Wade Robson's story, but i do believe that MJ was a diddler, not defending him in any way. How are they going to spin the mothers allowing the kids to sleep with him? Star struck?

The mom should be in jail.

R30 THE FUCK?

#MJInnocent is trending on Twitter.

Jackson is the epitome of a molester grooming kids for his vile use.

R32 of course it is. Oprah and her Mag Instagram account are being attacked over their involvement. His stans are fucking psycho. What is this psychosexual hold he has on people? Still?? He’s dead and was so disgusting. I don’t understand.

Yeah but these kids are already fags.

why would anyone defend the pedophile? except the $$$ men and his family who feed still off his carcass.

Weird they don't see what fools they are.

“I got to meet Sean Connery!” Wtf were these celebrities thinking? I’d be like, Michael what is the deal with this little white kid?

They look like they’re on a honeymoon.

Ok. How is Jimmy not gay? He was clearly in love with Michael.

"it was a natural thing that happened" - Safechuck's mom

So far this is a romantical comedy about two youngins falling in loves with MJ

MJ was a top?!

Omggg Michael liked when they presented hole.

Ugh this is....horrifying

Why are there two threads

When you are molested as a young gay boy it is hard to process because you like it or find it pleasurable. This adds to the problems. Obviously these guys are little fags already. I know from first hand experience.

This poor child. His childhood became completely full of sex with this alien-looking monster.

These men are all gays. They got a taste of living off MJs wealth and were not going to let it end.

Michael was a little gossip whore, listening in on Jimmy’s parents fighting and then spreading it back to Jimmy. This is so insane.

Wade seems dead behind the eyes.

The mothers of the boys Jackson fixated on are the scum of the earth. They GAVE their sons to a pedophile because they liked meeting celebrities (Harrison Ford! Sean Connery! SWOON!) , riding in limos, flying first class, staying at a celebrity estate equipped with every luxury, being the recipient of of expensive gifts and drinking fine wines and champagne. They SOLD their kids, pimped them out and for what? Hob nobbing with a very peculiar, rich famous person and accepting his largesse. What cunts. If I were their sons I'd tell them never to come near me again.

I am sooo bummed I had no idea this was on tonight, oh well, will watch the replays. Seeing Jackson acolytes vigorously defending Jackson on Twitter, they seem like Trump fans. Grown Men Do Not Sleep In Beds With 13 Year Old Boys, unless maybe if it is your kid, and you are camping, or sharing a hotel room. When is the last time anyone here as an aduly slept with a 13 year old male? On second thought, don't answer that if you have. But please seek help, you are sick and hurting people, including yourself.

R53 it’ll definitely be replayed. Part 1 is on hbo tonight, part 2 is tomorrow, followed by Oprah’s interview with Wade and Jimmy.

Where the hell were adult people in Michael’s life that were like, what is wrong with you??

They valued their jobs and positions more than they did the well-being of the children, r55.

It kind of sounds like Mrs. Robson was in love with MJ.

I can’t believe they just left the older brother behind? This family was fucked up.

MACAULAY CULKIN HAS ARRIVEDDDDD

How is Jimmy’s mom smiling in these interviews? Like, your son was being raped repeatedly, on a daily basis. But yea, let’s smile about it all in hindsight...

The mothers are crazy. Absolutely cuckoo. Even after it was found out Jackson was repeatedly molesting/raping their sons they look back on that period of their lives with fondness. Cunts!

It will be replayed several times during the next few weeks, but always at 2 a.m. or 5 a.m. or some time like that.

Watching part 2 on the HBO Go app now.

Shades of ‘Abducted In Plain Sight’, no? With a HELL of a lot more glamour of course.

The parents should be charged with pimping their children .

put momma in jail !!!!

"i think MJ was a weirdo, sure, but I have a hard time believing Wade Robson"

Why do you think he was hanging out with Wade in the first place, dipshit?

they were kids!!! with the king of fukin pop

give em a break

dig jacko up and try him for crimes !

Wanted little kids to suk on his tits while he beat his meat.

But momma met sean connery !!!

Both of the men will have ptsd for long time, hope they make some $ for their lifetime of shit from MJ

"it happened every day...'

geez he fukd them boys silly every day.

BURN IN HELL YOU FREAK

Think of all the kids who haven't come forward, who grew up and slinked off into the night, from fear and shame. Who knows how many....

will be years before all the storys come out about this peddy. this is the tip of the iceberg...

Holy. Fucking. Shit. This was brutal. That he managed to get away with it proves that money can get you anything.

His legacy has gone down the toilet though. How can anyone listen to his music now and not imagine him sucking some 7 year old kid's dick ?

His deranged nephew is comparing him to Jesus

I can't believe it but i can. This shit is nasty. He turned Jimmy out. Jimmy was wifey. Wade was the side chick? He said his hair felt like a brillo. Can you imagine being 7 years old on all fours with your ass cheeks spread looking back at that freak masturbating! Merciful heavens. I was never a fan. Even as a kid I knew something wasn't right.

Oh but the record company and the family will spend hella lot to hire bots to defend him to kingdom come.

ryan murphy make a movie bout this mess !!

Pity bubbles the chimp didn't tear Jacko's face off.

AND EAT IT

This movie depressed me a lot. Mostly the cavalier attitude how a mom and dad can leave their child with that goon. Wade so young...

wade was 7 yrs old....

Watch the second part. SPOILER: SPOILER. SPOILER. SPOILER There's payback of sorts for one of the parents.

I hope they remove the son of a bitch's star off Hollywood blvd..

All the kids we don't even know about.

fuk!

Shit. he was rimming 7 yr olds….how worse can it get.

Didn’t one of the kid’s dad end up killing himself years ago from guilt of lying about MJ molesting his son?

I do t have HBO but some of the comments about what happened to these boys is beyond sickening

Sorry I can't ever listen to MJ music ever again

I hope the mommys are recoiling in humiliation and disgust with their actions watching this...

'every night I was with him, there was abuse'....

no wonder the fukker had to resort to Propaphyl to relax and be guilt free.

R84, read the Vanity Fairpiece at R20.

TWO of the fathers committed suicide.

"Didn’t one of the kid’s dad end up killing himself years ago from guilt of lying about MJ molesting his son?"

No, he killed himself because he was terminally ill. Stop believing the lies of the Michael stans.

BBC 2 will just be the start of the backlash by the media....... For now. I hope to never hear his music played in played in public again. It's probably expecting too much, but not fair that anyone who has been abused should be subjected to hearing it.

I wonder if any of MJ's kids have memorys of abuse from 'daddy'....

How he loved sucking on 7 yr old Wayne's asshole... god dam peddy. . Theyr not above abusing their own kids.

Slate.com says this after watching the entire doc-

[quote] It’s simply the case that both women are better at communicating the star-struck wonder they felt at Neverland than they are at evincing the grief they felt over their sons’ abuse.

[quote] One of the more shocking aspects of both their accounts is how much they loved Michael Jackson, who made them feel special. And how much they still love him.

I hope there is a huge backlash against Jackson, and his fame is rubbed in the dirt.

they just dug up Michael to try these cases

Slate.com link.

How can a mother send her seven year old child off to play for a few days with Mr Jackson??? Seven!

'He came across as a kind caring soul,,,,so that was that'....god damned momma.

"How he loved sucking on 7 yr old Wayne's asshole"

That has really been the most devastating part of the doc so far, aside from Jimmy saying he was "totally in love" with Michael.

Did they explain how Wade Robson & James Safechuck fit in time-wise?

Which one came first?

Safechuck was first

So was Culkin molested or not?

I didn't watch the show because I just can't. These sort of shows stay with me and upset me so I just know to avoid them. Here's a question in case any of you know. Did Jackson's relationship with Robson and Safechuck take place after the Chandler allegations and settlement became publicly known?

I'm watching Part 2 now! It's gonna be a late night. I never ever wanna hear or see this freakshow again. The Wacko Jacko nickname was right on the money.

I'm eating chocolate chip cookies and waiting for the season finale of Victoria to start.

r102, Safechuck was first, then Robson, then Chandler. What I gathered from the documentary is that Robson continued contact the longest and the sexual abuse even creeped into his teenage years when there was an attempt at anal sex when Robson was about 14, but it was apparently too painful for him. Michael even asked him to dispose of his underwear that had blood droplets in them, which Wade did I gather that was their last sexual encounter. Robson was born in '82, so if there were encounters with MJ in the mid-90s, then yes it was after the '93 Chandler allegations.

Why doesn't Jimmy sell the rings if he can't stand to look at them? Get that money!

MJ is def a pedo. I have kids and it is extremely weird and suspicious that a grown man wants to spend any time with children not related to him. Is there ever an innocent explanation for this? Grown men dont have “friends” who are 7.

My kids don’t even interact much with adult men who aren’t teachers or their friends’ dads. These moms were pimping their sons. No other explanation for ignoring the many loud warning bells that had to be going off when some creepy single man is asking to have their 7 year old son over for a sleepover.

how rude, he was a baby when it began, practically, I doubt $ was on his mind, he was abused by a monster who liked sucking the anus of 7 to 9 yr old boys...

oh yea, king of pop

I cannot believe how many MJ defenders are out there on Twitter. I hate social media at times like this - I wish I didn’t know that many ignorant assholes were out there defending a child rapist.

Jackson’s title should be King of Poop.

Just started watching Part 1. I had to wait til my boyfriend went to bed because he was sexually abused as a boy, and things like this are very triggering for him.

Why did they have to frame this documentary in 2.40:1? Good grief. It’s not like it benefits from that ratio. Just let it fill the screen.

Comment from Gaga or Madonna yet? Or Justin? Or ....

bravo to hbo for airing this, despite the Jackson mafia suing them for millions..

Pinch my nips!

This makes sense now.

I'm going to start watching this tomorrow night. What about the women in the King of Pedo's life? Brooke? Lisa Marie? Liz? Momma Jackson? How could they not have known anything? Jackson had 2 wives, right? Lisa Marie and Debbie. Didn't he live with either of them? I can't believe all these people simply turned a blind eye. And his staff, his security, they all had to know. Or at least some of them. Did he really have so much damn money that he was paying all of these people hush money? I hope some of these things are answered.

And yes, R115, it certainly does. And sadly MJ probably wasn't the only one.

u just know macauley and the barnes kid were abused, jacko the peddy didn't hang with kids unless he got to play with their behinds....

R108 Hey idiot, I'm talking about NOW. In the doc he said he doesn't like to look at the rings. So why keep them? I sure as hell wouldn't. I wouldn't want anything to remind me of my molester.

true dat.

I keep mementos that bring back painful memories and that's why they're out of my sight. I still won't throw them away. I don't get what's so weird about that.

James comes across as overwhelmed and still trying to process what happened to him after a lifetime of repressing it, R118. There is love and hate and grief and who knows what else tangled up together. Cut the man some slack.

And abandonment.

Nah. That's weird to keep some painful mementos. Y'all need therapy. Obviously Jimmy and Wade are very mentally disturbed by what happened. They both married women and are both very clearly gay.

My hubbie's idiot brother did stuff with him.

Hot, R124! Brothers Should Do It.

I was wondering what the deal was these guys’ marriages. I kept reading online today about how they’re gay, or one of them is gay, or “They’re obviously both sick faggots!” (Good grief). Wade doesn’t seem gay. I assumed Jimmy was gay because he does seem like it, and he said he had siblings who were much older than he is (often a woman getting pregnant a bit later in life, after giving birth a few times already, causes a hormonal balance in the womb that produces a gay son).

The loons at LSA are defending Jackson. I'm on part two and Jimmy seems so sullen still. Robson is hot and married to an Asian woman so that makes me wonder. I remember hearing rumors Britney cheated on Justin with Wade.

R126, I agree, Wade doesn't see gay. Jimmy was more questionable, but could've gone either way. I think Robson's wife is hispanic from Hawaii. Most of the boys MJ hooked up with -- Spence, Chandler, Culkin and Arvizo -- are married/partnered with women. Not sure about Barnes.

I noticed that Jackson also liked to separate the mothers from the fathers, 3 of the fathers of the kids he molested committed suicide.

Wade Robson could have been Britney Spears twin when he was young

Jimmy sounds like he viewed it as a love story, sad.

The moms reminded me of the parents on Abducted In Plain Sight

The moms were disgusting. I would be devastated if that was my child; they just seemed to giddy recounting the memories of that time. MJ definitely targeted boys with stage moms, weak or absent fathers, from fractured homes etc.. Jimmy needs a lot of therapy to come to grips with this. I think he feels it's a love story or blames himself for the abuse. I think Michael groomed these boys in a way that they didn't see it as abuse, even years later. I read that after Spence was long since discarded, he married at Neverland, though Michael didn't attend. It followed the MO laid out in the documentary where Michael discards them, but keeps in sporadic touch and allows them access to his property. They all seem to have a loyalty to him, including Culkin.

I really wanted to know if Safechuck still has the Thriller jacket or was it given back. That would be worth a fortune.

I do wonder why Jordan's father was considered a villain. He did what most of these parents should have done, go to the authorities. Yeah, he took the payout, but I would've too considering all the threats he was getting. I'm also not sure anyone would convict MJ during that time.

Not only remove the peddy's star from Hollywood boulevard, but remove his grave from the earth and bring in an exorcist!

It's one thing to hear simply that someone "molested children." You don't have to sit and really think about what happened. It's another thing to hear the nasty details of what happened to these poor kids. What a freak. And the moms are crazy cunts.

Michael was a Britney Stan!

GODDAMIT, I forgot this was on! I have a feeling that they won't be running this into the ground like the other docs. I hope they will tho.

you can watch both parts on hbo go....if u have certain cable providers.

im one third thru the 2nd part.

I blame the mothers entirely .. a moms instinct knows if a man is after ur boy. they sold their sons for a few bucks, and the denial on their faces and voices, is truly disgusting. wades mom is nuts, I hope she is in therapy...

I’m a dermatologists. I have two colleagues who were his dermatologists and treated his vitiligo. His skin bleaching was to disguise the condition, not to make himself white. My colleagues, and others, advocated for him to go public with his condition. It would have raised awareness and helped other sufferers (it’s quite prevalent in people with skin of color, and is stigmatized), bu he refused. He preferred to allow the public to think he was turning himself white as a rejection of his blackness.

My colleagues said he was very odd, deeply manipulative and crafty. Always calculating his next move, usually to self-defeating effect.

james and wade both seem like such good hearted men, I wish them the best, they have been thru hell and come out wise souls. bless u both.

Then why did he also make his nose smaller r139? It does seem he wanted to have Caucasian features

How in hell did tha pedophile escape that 2003 trial, did he buy off the jury? insane. all the kids he abused from the last trial to that one, if guilty , many would have been spared probably.

Yea, just to look at him in that last trial with his old bleached hag look, face all cut to hell, a mad man capable of anything.

Macauley and others should come forward now, Let the truth out about this creep. The word must know, be strong and do it.

Damn shame Wade and his family didn't have some balls and testify against him in that last trial. .. sent his ass to jail till he croaked

nonetheless, one cant help but like both wade and james, they seem like good guys in a shitty situation.

damn jury!

[quote]How in hell did tha pedophile escape that 2003 trial, did he buy off the jury?

Witchcraft?

Oh, come on Skin Doc at R139. All of that plastic surgery to reduce his Black "features"? OF COURSE, he was bleach his skin to become white. I'm sure vitiligo was a part of the decision tho. It was kinda like a twofer.

If you're black and you have vitiligo, wouldn't it just be simpler to wear makeup on the light patches if you wanted to hide it, rather than bleaching the rest of your skin to match the abnormal light patches?

R139 Why would a black person match thei skin to the white vitiligo patches? Wouldn't it make more sense to match your skin to its natural colouring? Jackson clearly hated himself, and with good reason, but he used it to his advantage in presenting himself as eccentric and not subject to usual norms. I didn't question his child companions at the time, it just went with the surgery and the elephant man skeleton and the oxygen tank and his whiny 'poor me' description of his childhood. was promoted himself as Peter Pan, an elf, asexual, to such an extent that it's still a shock to hear of his very earthy sexual appetite and disgusting that it was aimed at children. He groomed us all, not just his victims and their parents.

R148 I was typing R149 while you were writing same thing about vitiigo!

I agree with other posters that something seems off about Wade's story...he seems to be acting as if he's remembering things in the moment when he's really already calculated a script in his mind. Jimmy is much more believable, and although I definitely believe Jackson did this to at least some kids, there's something fake or inauthentic about Wade and his story, but I can't completely put my finger on it .

You think Jackson did this to at least some kids R151? Jackson is the only figure due vilification in this situation, the fact the victims are being scrutinized at a higher level than Jackson is ( at least by some ) is disturbing.

I thought he was on his way to jail too in 2005, but could see part way through the trial the frenzy and the day-by-day build up of spectacle, and him lapping the attention he would likely find a way to walk away a free man. He received payback in the form of suffering, he died in the grip of immense physical, emotional and spiritual pain. Death must have been a great relief to him.

yea, Wade not as sympathetic as James. Wade sees his old lover in heaven making music...the man who rimmed his fanny at 7. not james, he knew the guy was evil in some ways.

Wade's creepy mom resembles an old broad auditioning for one last role....

R153 He should have died in jail but his fame and money and his seduction of the public spared him. Also he was expert in choosing his victims, those with parents star-struck and feckless enough to let him fuck their kids . Jackson will be getting no new fans, the current breathless defenders will die off and he will gradually fade to become remembered only as a pervert, if that.

Wade must have had a ton of guilt later on, that he was a big part of getting peddy Jackson off at that big trial.. so MJ was off to molest more boys, … pitiful

How can people believe MJ is innocent after watching this documentary?

I could have used less of Wade's sister and her odious glowing memorys of wonderful Michael...

R151 I agree with you, I was saying the same thing yesterday, I believe Wade was molested but there is something fake and off about him, can't put my finger on it. James Safechuck is more genuine.

I could have done without wade's sister and her bloated glowing memorys of oh the generous and sweet Michael..

yes, genuine, good word for that, james seems more honest.

Robson talks slow and measured, like he is analyzing how it will be taken.

tho as someone earlier said, we need to cut the guy some slack I guess, after all that abuse and weirdness.

That weirdo Corey Feldman is typing in ALL CAPS defending Jacko on Twitter. He didn't get close to Jackson until he was 13 so he probably was too old for him and that's why he left him alone.

Wade's story is extremely harrowing. It starts like a beautiful dream and quickly turns into a twisted nightmare with his whole family being placed in limbo. Being an Aussie, I can still recall his life in 1987 and it being lauded sensationally in the media as some kind of miracle that the two of them ended up together. Completely innocent... Every kids dream to be with a superstar, leave his old life behind with the whole world cheering him on, in reality he's turned into a child prostitute.

but why did wade have to protect him to the end??? why...

I imagine it would be pretty easy to slip into an invented reality if you were a kid being molested by the biggest superstar in the world, while the media praised the star for rescuing you and giving you a dream life.

Wade will likely never really be normal, and may never even be fully aware of the whole truth.

Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up.

I don't believe a bit of regret that comes out of wades moms mouth.

the woman is on stage, and this is her role...MY SON SLEPT WITH JACKO. WOE IS ME

R166 He had been brainwashed from 7 years old, told terrible things would happen if anyone found out, felt loyalty to his abuser, it's very common for the abused to still have protective feelings toward their abusers, it's a complex situation and worth more thought than you are giving it. Better to examine the likes of Jackson to avoid monsters like him being able to function in plain view in future, but it seems more important to some to let Jackson of the hook while discrediting his victims.

Its a visceral reaction to the moms, they bit the fame candy and o dear, it made them sick. they come across real poorly.

if I were james, wade ide forgive, but never want to see 'mom' again. their innocent childhood is gone. THANKS MOM

I wish there were more of eloquent james, for me wade is too measured and weird in his way of talking...not spontaneous

I believe both of them. The two issues that stand out 1) both boys seemed to have fallen in love with MJ and were heartbroken when dumped and 2) MJ had the extraordinary ability to seduce entire families.

He could have bedded every member of the families if he'd wanted to. Like that freaky Helmut Berger film.

Oh, and 3). Jacko hated fish.

What's the deal with serial child sex abusers? Is it that they simply cannot control themselves? I comprehend the compulsion, and all of that, but is it that they're just motivated to do the dirty deed sort of like being on auto pilot - that they just can't help themselves? DON'T WANT versus CANNOT suppress their desire is what I'm asking.

R149, Jackson didn't just change his skin color to white. He also changed his facial features to white with the thinned lips, cheek bones, jaw and chin enhancement - and of course, the nose. The hair went silky straight after the Jherri curl went out of style. I believe that he consciously changed himself into a white person, yet he told us that "it doesn't matter of you're black or white."

R133 in the end credits of part 2, you see him burning MJ stuff, including the jacket.

Jackson was a horn dog, every time they got together there was sex. Ewwww

It also seems weird that Wade completely dropped his Australian accent and now sounds fully American, I realize he moved here as a child but he was already 7, is that normal?

Yes

And, Patty Hurst was much older than these two and completely went over to her abductor’s side

Oh, fuck you, R178. Seriously.

bummer wade burned al them mj goodies, could have made a million off an auction and gave it to a peddy charity.

R174, they don't want to control themselves, so they create justifications for acting on their impulses.

Wow, you really know how to make a cogent point r180, sounds like you yourself are 7 with such an immature response

Anyone with faith in the justice system just needs to see the clips of the jurors in the 2005 trail talk to see how fucked up it all is.

Have any of MJ's defenders ever explain why he never hung around with young girls ? If he loved children so much, why never take a girl on tour or any of the other special things.

Is there any reason to make any kind of point to a such a provincial idiot, R183?

Macaulay Culkin absolutely was molested by Jackson. There is no way that he was able to keep his disgusting hands off him. And look at what has happened to Culkin afterward. He’s nearly killed himself with drug addiction, and only lately started sort of recovering. I think at some point, Culkin will admit it, but for now he is in a profound state of denial.

The parents who allowed their children to stay with Jackson should be jailed without trial. There is no excuse. None.

Did they call James to testify like they did Wade?

If not then why not?

I hate to admit it but I was really disappointed when they introduced the wives. I was sure they were both gay.

To me the strongest part of the documentary, is showing how much he made these boys feel loved and special. Being part of this amazing world. It was so hard to shake even in adulthood.

Sean seems another likely victim in denial, lived there for years. Is this haunting song and video about the chimp (who MJ physically abused) or the boys?

What does La Toya have to say?

The more complicated aspect to Macaulay is that Jackson named him Godfather to his children. So, while Culkin may have maybe one day wanted to call out jackson for his behavior, now there were children involved that he became emotionally attached to and with a feeling to protect them. He’s super close to Paris, so he will continue to defend her father because he knows it affects her, immensely.

I don't think Culkin will ever admit to being molested by Jackson--presuming he ever was. He's been strugglung with personal identity ever since becoming "the Home Alone kid", let alone being the kid who was a victim of Jackson's at the height of his young career, while the world warched & knew nothing.

Wade Robson was SEVEN years old! JFC Jackson was such a sick fuck.

The constant faxing and phone calls, the constant traveling etc. was unbelievable. This is how two adults who are in the early stages of a relationship behave with each other. Those poor kids.

The mother said she would come home and the floor would be covered in faxes from MJ. How the fuck is that not a warning sign that something is off.

Wade’s choreography was pretty awful.

Can you imagine Macaulay Culkin giving life advice to anyone, much less Paris Jackson?

[quote]His stans are fucking psycho. What is this psychosexual hold he has on people? Still??

I am perplexed by this as well. He's been dead for 10 years, and the height of his career was 35(!) years ago. WHO are these people who are still so obsessed with this guy after all this time?

[quote]I think Robson's wife is hispanic from Hawaii.

If they are Hawaiians with Hispanic last names, there is a strong possibility that they are of Filipino descent.

R199 and a lot of it is the African American community wanting to claim him as their genius, and yet he did everything to erase that side of him. It makes no sense.

The woman releasing doves after the verdict needs serious help.

Right. He wasn't messing around with any black boys. The parents ignored all the red flags because if you have celebrity and money you can get away with anything. ANYTHING.

Why would ANYONE watch anything about this miserable freak/criminal? He not only abused children but he neglected his animals too. No more Jackson BS or excuses from his followers!

[quote]MJ definitely targeted boys with stage moms, weak or absent fathers, from fractured homes etc.

Oh, absolutely. They all do. People like this learn early on, almost instinctively, who is easy to target and who will be too much trouble.

You really couldn't have a story like this UNLESS the parents were the kind of people who would allow inappropriate contact, for whatever reason. A normal, everyday, average person would have gotten suspicious sooner than these parents did.

R199, when I started Tumblr several years ago, I followed a lot of young people who posted interesting things from all sorts of movies, music, etc., but found several of them were obsessed with Michael Jackson. They were so young they were probably born around or just before the 1993 Super Bowl appearance, meaning they missed his entire heyday. Their exposure to him would have HAD to have included constant reports of eccentric behavior and molestation accusations. But they insisted it was all a lie, and I never understood why they were so defensive of him. Had to unfollow all of them eventually because it became obsessive with them.

For what it's worth, the best I could tell, these people were all white except for one Latina teenager.

Wade was the ugly one of the harem and too needy and desperate that's why he was just a jump off. He's the hottest one now though. jimmy was beautiful and luminous as a child. Macaulay was similar to him that's why Wade was once again thrown to the side. Then MJ found another Australian who was prettier and once again Wade was just a backup. They all liked the bragging rights of being "friends" with MJ and even more so secret lovers. They all wanted to be stars even though MJ never did a damn thing to help their careers. He was just like R. Kelly. It's sooooo fucked up. I have no idea why they were/are so smitten with that freak. Jimmy's mom saying MJ was like her son. Yeah, but HE'S NOT you dumb bitch. He played them like a game of chess. You just know MJ was secretly laughing at these broads at how easy this all was. He had his routine down pat. He planned it ALL. Set the house up as a lair for children. Even when I was a teen I didn't wanna hang around children let alone as a GROWN MAN. Fuck outta here you idol worshipping MJ fan freaks. You all are ALL LOSERS. WAKE UP dumbasses.

[quote]They all liked the bragging rights of being "friends" with MJ and even more so secret lovers. They all wanted to be stars even though MJ never did a damn thing to help their careers. He was just like R. Kelly. It's sooooo fucked up. I have no idea why they were/are so smitten with that freak.

They were kids, R207, not grasping starlet whores trying to fuck their way into stardom.

R126 R128 Wade doesn't SEEM gay? What are y'all? Retarded? Some Fraus? You have to seem gay? Don't be Dumb. R208 Maybe they weren't trying to fuck their way into stardom on purpose but I am sure they thought this would lead to worldwide fame like their idol, especially Wade and that's why they thought it was ok at the time along with MJ threatening them with jail. I'm sure the parents thought the same thing and encouraged the relationship. It's Michael Jackson honey! Can you imagine what this could do for your career! It's money in the bank! You wouldn't just keep hanging out with a creep like that if he wasn't rich and famous and thought of all the possibilities and opportunities it would bring for your child. I'm not blaming the kids AT ALL. I'm just saying I am sure thoughts of stardom was also on those kids minds and MJ fed into it. That's why MJ kept encouraging Jimmy that he was gonna be Spielberg someday and Wade a dancer better than him. Come on now. MJ knew how to play this.

Strange how the mothers the sister and even the grandmother all tell the story with such a lightness and so many smiles, yet it is such a terrible thing that allegedly happened to their son/grandsons.

Wendy Williams on tv right now making excuses for MJ. Says she doesn't believe a word and that him sleeping in the bed with children is because he didn't have a childhood! UNBELIEVABLE.

[quote]Maybe they weren't trying to fuck their way into stardom on purpose but I am sure they thought this would lead to worldwide fame like their idol, especially Wade

HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD, YOU ABSOLUTE FUCK. Jesus Christ, you are a miserable piece of shit.

^^^NOPE. Just keeping it real. Don't be tight! haha.

R209, pipe down, that was in response to a dozen or so comments saying the guys seemed gay. So MYOB if you do t know what you are talking about, which you clearly don't.

I’m horrified thinking some of these MJ defenders are parents. You just know they would turn over their own sons to MJ and then call them liars when they grow up and say what happened. They honestly don’t think it’s odd a grown man wants their son in bed with him.

[quote]Says she doesn't believe a word and that him sleeping in the bed with children is because he didn't have a childhood!

I know a number of people whose childhoods were so difficult that I wouldn't consider it a childhood at all. Not a single one of them sleeps in the same bed as pre-teen children or sends love notes to them.

R214 That's funny. I know what it was in response to. I was the first poster to say they were clearly gay. haha. Dummy. No one has to seem gay to be gay. CLEARLY.

R216 CORRECT.

R217, do you realize how stupid you sound then? Your post was about how they are 'clearly gay,' what did you base that on to form that opinion? Unless you slept with them, you have no clue what they are, idiot.

Forget the documentary, which is sick and I'm sure the tip of the iceberg for the music industry's Jerry Sandusky. I want to know how his defenders explain a grown man having sleepovers with unrelated children. Even IF you don't believe these two men, anyone with Google or a memory (if they were around then) knows that MJ used to cart around young boys and have them over his house for sleepovers. Hell, he built an amusement park at his HOUSE to attract kids. What's the non-pervy explanation for this? And would his defenders let their sons sleep over at MJ's house? You don't even need to get into the kids' truth-- any man who tries to get that close to unrelated small children is doing so for twisted reasons. And how did the media turn a blind eye to this for so many years? How did no one say why is this weirdo holding hands with Emmanuel Lewis and Macaulay? Always young boys, NEVER girls.

R219 Nah. My gaydar has always been on point. I can smell a gay a mile away. I've always had a gift to sift through bullshit. Nice try though honeybunch.

R54

The same Oprah who had rev al sharpton on for an hour praising his good ? ?

No thanks.

Joe Jackson raped Micheal.

Latoya said that and then took it back.

Joe Jackson pimped young Michael to industry pedos.

The guy had some really serious issues.

This is not an excuse by any means but a little bit of an explanation.

R220, I asked that in an exchange in the other thread. The person had no response, just kept reiterating that Robson is out for monetary gain and going on about an FBI investigation. Michael not only slept in the same bed, but held their hands, flew them all over the world with him, wrote and recorded messages that were more romantic than platonic. Even if these two never spoke, the whole thing is still shady and points to guilt.

Yashar Ali:

I'm so angry watching this. So angry.

And as I've said before, if you think much as changed in entertainment it hasn't.

R223 Makes sense. MJ was just doing what he knew. SICK. Hollywood should have crumbled to the ground by now.

R226 Stop with the alarmest, pizzagate bullshit about Hollywood.

Michael Jackson absolutely, without question did what James said he did. And I'm 99.9% sure he did it to Wade too. Anyone defending him is as delusional and stupid as a Trump supporter at this point.

R227 Ummm...You're a retard. If you check all my posts on here you would see I believe EVERY WORD Wade and Jimmy said. What the fuck are you talking about?

My unsophisticated provincial parents, oftentimes in need of money, would NEVER had let my 10 year old self spend more than one lunch or one dinner with a 40 year old male celebrity, and even that would have been supervised..

If they had found out I had slept in the same bed with him......or was a recipient of all those creepy faxes........ I can picture my mom telling my dad that violence is not the way to handle it and to bring the police in.

And there is no FUCKING WAY that anyone but a pedophile would call up a non-related child and tell him he "loves" him. WTF? The Jacko apologists/defenders are as bad as these boys' pimping moms. Do they need to walk in on a man fucking a kid to believe he's a pedophile. I suspect a high correlation between Jacko defenders and Trump supporters- a bunch of delusional celebrity apologists.

What I can't wait for and I don't think I've seen anyone commented on yet, is the ENTIRE DOWNFALL of the Jackson Clan. For years these miserable Mother F*ckers have been keeping this asshole's fame alive ( even when MJ was alive by rallying to his defense at his trial) all so they could keep their greedy mitts on his $$$. They ABSOLUTELY KNEW about his perversion, especially Janet, and could have exposed him at any time to the world, but didn't just to keep the few extra pennies and dimes rolling in. May they ALL BURN IN HELL!!

Money is the root of ALL evil.

It is not normal for a grown man to be surrounded by young boys not his own and be so handsy with them. This is a huge red flag, and the fact that no one bothered to call the authorities is disturbing.

I don’t have HBO...did it say if MJ ever encouraged or watched Jimmy and Wade getting off together?

Safechuck's mom's demeanor is fucking twisted. She laughs when talking about leaving her son with this pervert and she even catches her son in bed with an unrelated grown man and is ok with it becuase they were clothed. Huh? I'd have more respect for her if she said she was an alcoholic or drug addict during this time. She should be criminally prosecuted for this.

She was too busy staying in her favorite bedroom at neverland and hanging out in the wine cellar she so loved.

McCauley should spill the tea about their playtime together.....hell, it might even help his fading career.

Maybe more boys (cuter than Wade and Jimmy) will come forward as a result of this doc.

"Hollywood should have crumbled to the ground by now."

Abuse happens everywhere, including the Catholic Church, Southern Baptist Church, USA Gymnastics, USA swimming, Penn State......

Oh stop. You know damn well Hollywood is rancid to the core unlike any other with the motherfucking catholic church at a close second. That shit is a joke for real and I believe in GOD. The Catholic church ain't shit. There is a special place in hell for that crew.

I'm just fucking livid that MJ got away with it. It's tragic and shocking that he was never punished for the sexual abuse he dished out to children.

r240 is an idiot. Probably some Republican frau ranting about "Hollyweird" - you sound retarded.

Safechuck has never forgiven his mother and who can blame him!

I'm convinced the moms knew deep down. Evan Chandler should be applauded for speaking up.

I think more boys will come forward in the next few years as they come to terms and understand that it was abuse and not some romantic relationship. I'm curious about Jonathan Spence, who I never heard of until the DL mentioned him. He would be a great person to talk, though I think he is brainwashed. Hopefully, he'll come to his senses eventually.

R242 Not a Republican. Not a frau. Haha. I think your comment says who the real retard is here. haha. So sad to have the issues you have. Sending you light and love. xoxo. 💛

r245, thanks for proving that you are indeed a frau. The heart symbol says it all. It's really sad when people let their personal bias get in the way of the facts. Maybe you should look into abuse committed by Republican politicians like Dennis Hastert and Roy Moore before your next rant against "evil liberal Hollywood"

[quote]He wasn't messing around with any black boys.

For a while there after Thriller blew up, Emmanuel Lewis was his constant public companion.

Calm down 231 honey. Michael Jackson was a grown motherfucking man with an army of yes men surrounding him. Janet has gone on record as saying that they tried many times to intervene on his drug issues alone, and she herself barely ever even saw him. Prince and Paris was toddlers when she first met them.

The racial undertones with Michael is the elephant in the room. I never thought the vitaligo thing was true. It may well be because Jordan described his gentians as having a pale patch on it, but there is no denying that Michael tried to look more white, had white children and mainly surrounded himself with white or Hispanic boys. Yet, when he got in trouble he turned to the black community. The black community will always support someone black if the victims are white, even if that person has nothing to do with them before or after, just like OJ. In Michael's case he get additional support from wacko white people.

I have the sad feeling that Paris Jackson isn't going to survive all of this. She'll be the next Bobbi Kristina.

^Genitals

Jackson didn’t fuck with Emmanuel Lewis or M Culkin because they were already celebrities in their own right. He selected kids who were much more vulnerable, kids who had unstable stage mothers who were desperate to see their sons make it big.

R252, I had that same line of thinking, however...

I just want to add to my post above, how was this guy not convicted? An eyewitness on the stand said he saw Michael with his hand down Macaulay's pants. Why was this testimony covered up so much? How can the MJ stans spin this?

With McCauley it wasn’t abuse because Mac had a huge crush on MJ at the time. It was more like young innocent puppy love.

No way he wasn't guilty of molesting Culkin.

Because Culkin got on the stand and said it never happened, R254. Sure would have been nice for the cook in R253’s link to have called the police, on the spot. These poor kids were fucked over by so many adults. Of course Wade Robeson accepted what was happening to him and hid the truth for so long. It must have felt like the entire world approved of Jackson’s lifestyle. Coming up with all sorts of ridiculous excuses for bizarre behavior. He never had a childhood, he’s just a big kid, he just wants to love everybody (except girls, yuck). Culkin still refers to his friendship with Jackson as totally normal. He talks about all the good that he got from the relationship, but has he ever wondered what was in it for Jackson? Seriously, what does a child offer a grown man, in terms of friendship? Moral support? Career and relationship advice? A shoulder to cry on? I think Culkin was an unobtainable object of desire. He’d already made Home Alone when they met. According to Wade, Jackson would have Culkin spend the night, leave him in the bed, take another kid into the bathroom to molest behind a locked door. Wade knew what was happening in the bathroom because it had happened to him. Culkin could have remained oblivious. He was a kid. Even adults watching this shit remained oblivious.

R255- you’re just nuts.

We have to remember that Jimmy and Wade were kids in show business. They knew what auditions were. They wanted to become famous and would do anything to achieve that. They weren’t your normal innocent “kid next door.” I think partial blame should be on Jimmy and Wade for exploiting an older man (MJ) to get what they wanted.

Culkin was the perfect victim for Jackson. His parents were deeply nuts, which would have resulted in a child desperate for love/attention. Culkin denies he was a heroin addict, when he clearly was. What drove that addiction? I would bet that he was molested by Jackson. He needs to come clean. Both for himself and for the other victims. It's criminal if he doesn't...& weak AF.

"I think partial blame should be on Jimmy and Wade for exploiting an older man (MJ) to get what they wanted."

Oh, God, there is something deeply wrong with you. They were little kids, Michael was a grown man.

Did Michael sing this every time he met a new tween boy?

Why would Culkin's parents let him hang around Jackson? The family had enough money at that point that the parents shouldn't have been swayed by gifts. His dad grew up in the business and must have known about the predator situation. Macaulay was already hugely famous in his own right at the time and probably had his pick of kids' roles, so he wouldn't have needed any career help. They could have afforded nannies if they didn't want to entertain him themselves.

R260 - I’m just saying I don’t think Jimmy and Wade we’re innocent victims. I think they did what they had to do to get ahead in Hollywood.

R246 yeah yeah yeah. blah blah blah. In one ear and out the other mr. hollywood. enjoy.

There’s other men now coming forward saying little Wade “shook his ass” in front of them to try and seduce them in exchange for parts in dance competition shows. Looks like he truly was a little ho.

Is this worth signing up for HBO for a month? I have Amazon, is it or will it be available there does anyone know?

r265 people who were sexually abused as children frequently become overtly sexual.

r263 thinks those altar boys were asking for it

[quote]Is this worth signing up for HBO for a month? I have Amazon, is it or will it be available there does anyone know?

Watch it on one of the streaming sites. It's already up.

Ok thanks R269

I was going to sign up anyway next month for GOT so I did it sooner. I signed via Amazon but I think HBOGo is better.

I haven’t had it since Dish stopped carrying it. I missed it.

If you know anyone who has a subscription to HBO, you can get GO through their account. Just need username/password.

Culkins parents were drunks and awful role models. His sister got so drunk at a bar, she walked in front of a car and was killed. They would have absolutely turned a blind eye to their son being abused. Culkin's addiction was pretty severe. Herion addiction especially is connected to childhood sexual abuse.

Of course Culkin was abused by MJ, he just doesn't want to get involved in this whole mess. And he has every right to not want to do so.

At least MJ gave Culkin the love that his drunken parents weren’t capable of. Something is better than nothing.

Rather than being charged with manslaughter, Dr Murray should have been given a humanitarian award for euthanizing that pedo bastard with propofol. Just imagine how many other kids he would have molested over the past 10 years had he not died in 2009.

You are disgusting asshole R275 and based on your posts in this thread, probably a sexual predator yourself.

R263 a 7 or 10 year old is not thinking about the casting couch or how sleeping with MJ is hoing to further their career. Their ambitious stage moms are a different story altogether. Not sure how those women live with themselves tbh.

R263 did not get enough oxygen during birth.

R263 is the same poster at R265, R275, R255 and R260.

My apologies to R260, who was just quoting the weird, perverted troll.

What was the point of the documentary?

There are serious credibility issues with the men interviewed.

That part where the kid interviewed MJ seemed edited. Regardless, nothing was particularly controversial about the interview.

The faxes were not alarming in content.

It’s all he said she said hearsay. Why are they sharing these stories now, after testifying under oath nothing happened.

I’m not a crazy MJ fan, I’m just guarded with accepting these interviews as truth. I don’t know these people. Why should I believe them. And still, no solid evidence. No proof.

Weird behavior, yes. Psychological disorders, Yes. Poor decisions, yes. odd/unusual relationships, yes. Abuse, still on the fence - I need solid evidence - more than the claims of these boys who have questionable reputations.

He was a f$cked up mess with money. Unfortunately that money aided in his success to become a predator. Disgusting. I knew he was guilty. This creepy documentary solidified my belief.

You’re seriously crazy, R282.

R281 - what gives you the authority to call someone a “weird perverted troll?” Last time I checked, free speech was welcome here.

[quote]I’m just saying I don’t think Jimmy and Wade we’re innocent victims.

The refrain of every child molester (and child molester enabler) throughout history.

"There are serious credibility issues with the men interviewed"

But Michael was totally credible, and we should believe everything he said when he was alive, right? You know, the batshit crazy drug addict who had slumber parties with tween boys?

"And still, no solid evidence. No proof."

Gee, how about the fact that he was a grown man spending 24 hours a day with ten-year-old boys? Or the fact that other people said they were abused, too?

"Why are they sharing these stories now, after testifying under oath nothing happened."

Jerry Sandusky's adopted son told a grand jury he wasn't abused, yet I don't recall even one datalounger saying he was lying. I don't remember anyone other than Jerry Sandusky's lawyers calling him a liar. I guess the only abusers we are allowed to defend are the ones who are famous singers.

R282, learn what the word hearsay means before you use it. The interviews where first person accounts, that is not hearsay. If you don't think those faxes were alarming, well, there is no hope for you.

Great entertaining documentary but again, no concrete evidence of molestation. These boys are shady shady characters.

in the film james says he was asked and refused to testify, unlike the odd wade...'o he would have died in jail'...b.s.

omg , as oprah says, honey there is a ton of evidence !!!! why u think he paid 20 mill to end that trial???

Here is me exercising my freedom of speech R285: you are a Weird. Pathetic. Troll.

omg that Jackson mafia on tv now sayin there aint no evidence......ugh

Wacko Jacko fans are absolutely batshit crazy. Deluded enablers who would of pimped out their own kids to be a part of Michaels world. Like the mums on the documentary. Oh and to the poster above who said they were sitting on the fence. The only thing sitting on the fence gets you is big splinters in your ass. And the only thing shady about the documentary are his fans. I have spent the morning reading some of the most foul fucked up justifications on why Michael was an Angel who would never have hurt anybody. It to be blunt made me want to puke. Any grown man who sleeps with underage boys in their bed regularly is a pedo. He groomed them. He paid them off and he molested them. Just because he put out music that spoke to you or got you through your childhood whatever it doesn't stop him from being a kiddy diddler.

most are paid bots by the family/estate/record co

[quote]Great entertaining documentary but again, no concrete evidence of molestation. These boys are shady shady characters.

Entertaining? Ah yes nothing like gathering the fam around the set to watch a man recount being rimmed at age seven by a pedo pop star.

Yeah and they talked about how everyone viewed Michael as a hero, as they showed footage of him meeting Presidents, the Royals, mobs of fans in the streets, etc.. everyone, including get their parents, were saying what a great man Michael was. All the while he was telling the boys that if anyone ever found out about the abuse, he would go to jail and it would ruin his life. What would a child think? On top of that, when someone (Jordan) finally spoke up, he was demonized forever. Michael seduced these boys and played mind games with them. He bought them anything they wanted, paid them attention then tried to separate them from their (admittingly stupid) family by telling them their parents were fighting and their moms were mean. Michael was manipulative and evil.

How do these stans answer the question:

Would you have allowed your 10 year old son to sleep over night in the same bed with Michael Jackson behind a locked bedroom door?

Would you allow your 10 year old son to sleep over night in the same bed with an unrelated 40 year old man?

If either answer is NO, then at a minimum you have to step back and wonder if you are proving the observation made in The Atlantic: "Michael Jackson was a superstar, and superstardom is its own defense."

If there were evidence, MJ would have been prosecuted. Authorities searched and searched, but had nothing on him. MJ likely had severe anxiety issues. People with anxiety have avoidance behaviors. I’ve never questioned him paying off kids/families. He just wanted problems to go away. MJ never worried about money and spent freely without thought. MJ writing a check for 25 million was like me writing a check for $100 to avoid a lawsuit.

Two fathers of two accusers committed suicide in the past over guilt of lying.

Jordan Chandler admitted in an open letter that the molestation stories were fake.

Wade is being talked about on various websites as a known opportunist, perv and ho who fucked Britney and broke up her relationship with Justin T.

Many people are saying that these two guys are just out of work dancers looking for a payout. Makes Wade’s flashing smile and peace sign gesture to the paps on the day he testified for Michael in court vs. his story in the documentary look all the more shady.

R300, “many people are saying”? Are you Donald Trump?

So many lies in your post, so little time....

Not as shady as your feeble attempt to preserve the memory of perverted, sicko Jackson R300. You addled fans should give up, your hero is now known for what he always was, a pathetic. manipulative child molester, his reputation is rightly in the gutter.

LIAR, R300. That is a total lie. Jordan Chandler never recanted. If he did, Michael's estate would go after him and the hush money he was given. Where is this open letter? I'm not holding my breath waiting for you to cough it up. Jimmy is the head of computer programming, so I think his dancing days are far behind him.

Try again.

R300, Evan Chandler was dying of cancer when he killed himself. Jordan Chandler has never said or written anything about the case.

I can’t wait to see if you bloodhounds act this feverish when Harvey Weinstein, Bryan Singer and Kevin Spacey have their days in court.

R305 what the fuck are you even talking about?

O.K. M.J. is/was totally guilty. Everybody knew.

Like Bill Cosby.

I knew and I was just a P.A. for a C list actress.

Also the reason M.C. won't say a word is because he's allegedly is Paris Jacksons' sperm donor.

R305, damn right I will. Get out of here with your race baiting.

R305, seriously, a lot of people wish death on those hideous guys.

I really question the sexual proclivities of people who support Jacko. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to send a fax to an unrelated 7 year old boy that says “I love you” should be kept away from unrelated young kids. If these apologists have kids and would think “how cute!” When a 40 year old unrelated man sends a love fax to their 7 year old son, they are as guilty and disgusting as the moms in this doc.

Again, you don’t need to believe anything these boys say. Jacko flaunted his grooming behavior for years, holding hands and having (only) boys sleep over at his house and hang with him at Neverland.

Yeah, sure, he wasn't buying you off, lady!

R305 If you were a regular visitor here you would have seen the many threads devoted to eviscerating the losers you mention, no need to wait for court. There were in those threads a few like yourself who through demented fandom or from a twisted need to protect sex pests' rights defended them but it was a similar ratio to the sad sacks here. Jackson's reputation is as dead as he is and it's a good thing, just a shame he wasn't fully exposed during his sick lifetime.

[quote]The faxes were not alarming in content.

Are you out of your fucking mind? The language in those faxes was romantic.

R307 I thought Mark Lester was Paris Jackson's bio dad. Dr. Arnold Klein is most certainly Prince Jackson's bio dad.

I'm not really sure who are the bio parents of Bigi (formerly, cruelly known as Blanket).

I think these people are making this up. I don’t feel sorry for them.

I will cheer if they do indeed remove his hwood blvd star !!!!

he raped 7 yr olds, and who know who else !

I think you are a cunt R316 and I don't fell sorry for you either.

disgusting when the Jackson family hires bots to diss the movie ….

he raped young boys!!!

His name and reputation are shit now . watch the movie. it reavels he was a groomer and peddy of highest order.

what would u do if u found out your seven or nine year old brother were being raped?????

ude want to take his eyes out. who wouldn't.

not the Jackson fans. no...why he da king o pop

KING OF RIMS

"In the doc he said he doesn't like to look at the rings. So why keep them?"

Maybe ke keeps them because they're expensive. But I would have sold them a long time ago.

Sadly R323 being seduced at that age and dazzled by fame and glamor must leave the victim with complex and conflicting feelings, I imagine he keeps the jewelry for reasons he doesn't even understand himself.

at least he dint burn them like dummy wade.

o how dramatic, I will burn a million bux worth of jacko stuff. I must be real now huh

hey they were nice rings, who don't like nice rings.

And can you imagine how the stans would squeal if he had sold those items and made bank R325 ? It would be proof he was a moneygrabber in their twisted minds. These guys can't win, one is suspected cos he hasn't sold valuable mementos , the other an idiot for destroying them, neither has tried to turn them into cash because the association is too raw, they'd rather hide them away or destroy them which is revealing in itself.

who cares what They think, theyr paid fuks from the estate to make a ruckus.

most people think jacko now is a pice of crapola

his music will never recover from this.

u want to hear tunes from a man who sucked on butts of 7 yr olds?

Oprah’s a big dumbass.

Why? cause she hates rapists who rim young kids?

KING OF PEDO. I wanted to rip that wig off his apple head in the courtroom.

Why is that bimbo sister in the movie?

It's not all 'paid fuks' by any means R328 A lot of those defending Jackson and issuing death threats are tragic fans who would listen to his music if it came with a photo of him sucking on 7 yr old butt.

omg the bastard had a mock wedding ceremony with an 8 yr old!!!!

shit here she is agin in the show, the fat sister. GO AWAY, u took his presents and loved the creep. go

I’m watching part two right now and I may never sleep again after hearing Michael Jackson’s British accent voicemail.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Well I was molested several times when I was between 7 and ten and nobody has offered to make an HBO movie about me!! And fuck Oprah too!

did lisa Presley have kids of her own when she married the pedo?

did mj mess with them?

luv her reaction on this movie...

like paris ever had one. she cant act her way out of a speeding ticket

If he is her bio dad he would have donated sperm while still a minor, no? 17?

All of this is so sad. I still recall the Bahir doc and cannot believe he never served time. It was so BLATANT, on tv even. Those poor kids, even rumored incest with young nephews. May they all find healing one day and break the cycle.

Im shocked the mommys haven't committed suicide...

Those provocative little outfits momma robson sent wade out in when he was so tiny. do do dances....

Unreal.

guess the lil guy was the main $ maker

Watching it a 2nd time

Hate the mothers even more, specially miss read head with the stylish white streaks...very youthful mam...

Wonder what all jacko pedo gave the fat sis, her eyes twirl when she thinks of mj.

this has to be r murphys next epic..

its....Shakespearean.

Shiitty how mj kicked wade to the curb after moving him there, for that dweeb mccaulkin.

Murphy could do so well the scene where momma and wade arrive to see mccaulkin is the new boy, at that vid shoot.

shades of joan Crawford shooting daggers at...anyone.....'how dare u ditch my boy as ur lover !!!!!'

'It broke wade's heart'.....

James seems like someone ude want to hang with.

Wade seems...ok

Why is there two threads on the same exact topic. such a mess.

Watching posters trying to read-word the same exact posts from another thread is pathetic.

Datalounge, get your shit together.

too crazy a topic for one thread, hell there may be three.

real bombastic and sensational topic.

POP IDOL RIMS SEVEN UR OLD!

The more I watch it, Jackson seems very psychotic. Will we ever know the extent of his horrific deeds?

Poor Jimmy. I hope he gets the help he needs to find some peace.

Link to the other thread on the topic?

"Jordan Chandler admitted in an open letter that the molestation stories were fake."

No, he didn't.

"I really question the sexual proclivities of people who support Jacko."

Please, these people aren't pedos - they are biased fangirls and fanboys. They wouldn't support an ordinary guy who did these things, they are just defending him because they like his music.

wonder what steven speilberg thought of this movie, they were such....uh...big buddys.

I think he knew. he kniew

many around jordie knew it was true, he grown now and wants....distance

Ive watched both parts twice, its more horrific each time.

makes me want to burn every MJ tape/record I have

and pry his g dam star off that street in hollywood

omg the part where he films himself for that trial, in that red corduroy shirt with bambi eyelashes, professing his love of kids all over the world...

GAG

the last final glance he gives the cam is so....'ha ha, u caint touch me now'

Are there audio or even video recordings of Jackson speaking in his normal, deeper, adult voice that he was said to use in private? I would love to hear that—I think it would be delightfully creepy.

His whispery voice was like a mixture of Marilyn Monroe and Jackie on Assistance.

Where are people watching Part 2? I saw the two hours that aired on HBO and I have HBO On Demand but am I missing something else?

I watched on HBO Go R362. I believe HBO aired the second part tonight.

Did his nose completely collapse there at the end? What’s with the tape over the tip?

There was a brief moment where he finally achieved a comic book/peter pan look that was as good as it was going to get for that sort of thing. He nailed it.

And then he had to mess with it again came out looking like one of the apes from planet of the ape and it was over from then on out, as far as looks.

R599, from the other thread. Britney was mentioned because Wade choreographed for her and In Sync. He also said Michael was obsessed with her and asked Wade about his sex life with women.

R603 from the other thread, Someone here said Jordan drew pictures and they were accurate.

Jackson also made visits to and lengthy calls to the young son of Barry Gibb, according to the father.

I do not believe he kept his hands off of Kulkin or Lennon or Ronson. They all have a bit of a damaged vibe. That Bubbles Burst video kind of captures the abusive dynamic and the love and longing for the attention of the abuser along with the dread of aging out of the special role.

I hope he is burning in Hell, even that may be too good for him. No wonder he could not sleep. Truly a monster.

if only wade had kept the bloody undies,

that would have put the bastard in prison.

yes hbo go. has both of em

2nd half on hbo regular now scarey

One this is clear from the documentary and articles, Michael hated women.

“No wenches, bitches, heifers, or hoes” was the first of the so-called ‘six wishes’ Jordie Chandler was allegedly instructed by Michael Jackson to recite three times a day. The boy also told Dr. Richard Gardner in their October 6, 1993 session that Jackson “didn’t like it if I would want to call a girl or something.” James Safechuck paints a similar picture of life with his possessive older friend.

At ten, Jimmy noticed the opposite sex. He was good-looking and friends with a pop superstar — naturally, young girls also possessing pubertal awareness would dig a boy like Jimmy. But Jackson wasn’t too pleased with the nature of those kinds of things and became upset upon finding out that, beyond their secretive Neverland world, Jimmy had been taken ‘off the market’ by a little school-aged girl. “When Plaintiff was in the fourth grade, he had a ‘girlfriend’,” says his Complaint. “When Decedent found out, he told Plaintiff he could only have a relationship with him.”

As James remembers it, Jackson was “jealous of Plaintiff’s attraction to females and any relationships with females that he had.” Monogamy, apparently, was another important rule Jackson stressed for his ‘special friends’ and ‘Rubbas’.

But if a nine- or ten-year-old girl didn’t stand a chance against Jackson’s possessiveness of Jimmy, Jackson was comparatively more vindictive about the boy’s “crush” on then Bad tour back-up singer Sheryl Crow. Jackson’s plan to hoard his boy’s ardor involved bombarding Jimmy with no doubt stealthily-captured photographs Jackson himself had taken of Crow without makeup, all in effort to convince the boy that the blond, poodle-haired singer was simply too ugly and, therefore, undeserving of his boyhood fantasy-affections. Jackson didn’t want competition.

god my heart breaks for james.

I want to feel that way for wade, but oddly I don't.

That’s because you’re fucked up, R369.

did the kids see him when his nose tip wasn't glued on?

or without his eye lashes or wig or eyeliner or bleach?

Yea, James seems more sympathetic.

I have no idea why anyone wouldn’t believe Wade 100%. No one can articulate why they don’t fully believe him. It would be helpful if at least *one* of his doubters could explain it.

There are no details that either guy gives that didn’t have the ring of truth.

The saddest moment in Part 1 was when Wade realized he had been replaced. That seems like it was far more damaging—at least at the time—than the sex itself. Heartbreaking.

R371, Blanket did.

yes, wade.

omg lady jacksons mug shot. god

why did calkin lie at the trial bout not being abused? paid off? thought it was ok? wtf....he alwys seemd a bit off

This killed me back in the day, and it still is funnier than hell.

Why are y'all saying he rimmed 7 year olds? He sucked them nonstop. He sucked 7 year old dick nonstop. I think at one point they said every day for a year straight. Then had them present hole as he jacked it. Wow.

I think James and Wade feel so guilty because they knew others were hurt. I wonder if they could live with it if they were the only ones. Knowing they could have spoken up and there were others has to haunt them.

Robson talks about Jackson rimming him. Sicko dove right in during one of his many “bbend over Wade” moments.

Did anyone ever believe that MJ and Lisa Marie ever had sex with each other?

They also talked about the nonstop oral sex MJ performed on them.

yea, the guilt robson must have from testifying at that trial how jacko didn't touch him...he could have maybe prevented some abuse if he had been truthful.

I think Wade even talked about the first time he actually came but said it was clear, still no sperm in it unlike MJ.

did u see the film??? all he did was rim suk rim suk, with sometimes wanting to fuk em...

and they pinched his nipples.......

OH hell here is fat sister again....

girl mj hated women!

arghhhh

MJ sure did hate women. Saw them as evil. No wonder he did not like certain female celebs. He probably thought Britney could get him some young tail. Her sons??

goes for u lisa marie too, hoes heiffers! he hated em

how dum u look for marrying the fool

Any mention of Jacko's home burn unit?

John Waters joked about it in his hilarious one man show.

Wade was very credible in his explanation of why he testified twice that nothing happened and why he didn't tell his family. It's pretty easy to understand why he wasn't able to tell anyone about it until a lot more recently. Put yourself in his shoes.

Wonder how many kids he abused in his lifetime.

a lot huh...

rip up his star!

To me its not 'very credible'.....

its called a conscience.

There is no way MJ had sex with Lisa’s a Marie and def not with DEbbie Rowe. Look at how pathetically awkward he looks with LM here. And if you want to see vile pedo apologists, look at comments.

[quote]4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

This is what bothers me the most about fans pointing to a lack of evidence. Ever since the video of Jacko complaining that the police took his pictures of his groin region I knew that he was guilty as hell. Unless the kid is Nostradamus there's no way he could describe the particulars of a grown man's genitalia. It's clear evidence, duh!

Totally agree. we know the yay michael comments are from factorys that churn this shit out

Why in fuk did that jury find him not guilty????

hillbillys? pay offs? threats?

What’s the story with Diana Ross and MJ? I remember the press (and prob publicists) trying to paint Diana as Pedo’s one true wuv. It’s laughable looking back at all the mental gymnastics people did to ignore what was as plain as the nose Jacko tried to erase from his face.

Wade must be on a shitload of meds, to deal with his defending the pedo.

diana messed with him when he was young?

'I danced when I heard he died' allright!!!!

but the red head biddy went to bed for a week out of sadness......

'blessing the heavens with a melody and moonwalk'.....fuk that.

Having Oprah support the documentary is like delivering a one-two punch to the Jackson family who want to bury the truth and keep the money rolling in.

Hearing her talk on a panel with an audience makes me miss her talk show so bad.

How was the Oprah after show interview?

It was good R405. Of course Oprah being Oprah, she talked a lot. lol I do agree with her that the documentary did a great job of showing the grooming process. She said it did a better job than she did in 200+ shows of convey how it happens.

I think there is more sympathy towards Jimmy than Wade because the later appears to have come to grips with it. Jimmy is clearly still struggling. He even said he's not there yet and still blames himself for the abuse. You can see his inner struggle.

I think a major difference between Wade and Jimmy is their personality types. Wade is a Type A, and Jimmy is a Type B; Jimmy will always be looking back and reflecting. It was sweet to see them give each other a long hug at the end of the Oprah interview.

I think it was brave of the moms to cooperate and admit their mistakes. It would have been easy for them to stay away, knowing they were going to be criticized. Having them tell the story from their point of view shows how orchestrated the grooming process was. He was wooing the whole family in order to clear the path to the kid.

R404, Oprah will never forgive Jacko and Lisa Marie for using her to push their sham marriage on to the public. Then again, she probably doesn't forgive herself for not asking tougher questions.

[quote]He was wooing the whole family in order to clear the path to the kid.

Absolutely. It was all so planned and staged, MJ knew exactly what he was doing. He was a sociopath. What a sick fuck he was.

many have such anger toward wades momma. her love for Jackson still, after all the abuse came out, is gross. I hope wade wipes her out of his life.

Wade's wife looks like MJ

I'm usually not too impressed by Oprah but kudos to her for taking this on

r398 he didn't want to fuck Diana he wanted to be her

OMG the SLEEPOVER at Neverland with Jordan Chandler, Macauley Culkin, and Wade.

Best documentary ive seen. Hits u in the guts.

hope its Oscar worthy.

Yea, oprah was a big fuk u to the Jackson army,,,,nice.

Yes, was it some kind of 4 way thing with them? fess um McCauley, we know u a kinky bastard.

?????????

I love james !!!

I'm glad Oprah did the interview because it added an extra layer of credibility. I know certain people, like the linked Stephanie Mills Instagram post, were going off on her for not being loyal to the black community. Their entire take away from all this is that she shouldn't do the show because she is not supporting a black man. These people are insane.

Wade's wife wouldn't let his mother enter her house for 5 months when she found out. I was surprised Wade took their son to visit his mom during that time. I'm not sure the wife was wrong in shutting her out.

I think what surprised me the most was how cunning, ruthless and manipulative Michael really was. It is such a contraction to his child like public persona. The way he would instruct them from the start to lie and to dress quickly if they heard someone coming. Then how he discarded them, but the minute he got in trouble with another boy, he'd call them up all "hey little man." He forgave a loan from Safechuck's parents to buy their silence, which they didn't even realize at the time. When Safechuck refused to comply with testifying, he turned vicious towards him. That was the real MJ. I was also surprised the kids where so young. I always thought they were like 11-13, never 7. If Michael was so insistent that he was innocent, then why didn't he take a lie detector test?

imagine the photos in jacko's secret stash? where are they? with the cops?? in momma jacksons closet in a shoe box? hell, la toya got em huh

yea, mj was a crafty bastard who groomed with care, wonder where he learned that?

I never thought he was a god. Look at him. that mess he did to his face??? creepy mo fo.

Funny seeing Matt Lauer and Gloria Allred's hair back then.

Wade even dyed his hair black to look like Michael.

Never understood the mania for Michael.

He looked like a crazy lady who could sing and dance good. But was nuts as a shithouse rat...

I'm not an Oprah fan, but -- damn! -- she was impressive. She highlighted aspects of the doc that I had paid scant attention to, and probed & elicited deeper responses from both James & Wade.

I think the aftershow helped explain why Wade came off as less "authentic" to some viewers. (Not me.) He is further along the road to recovery than James. So Wade speaks from an intensely "therapeutic" frame, whereas James is still something of an open wound.

For any MJ stans still attacking these guys, they should pay attention to James in the aftershow. This is NOT a guy who is making this shit up. He can barely hold it together from one moment to the next. Honestly, my heart breaks for him, and I hope he can find some measure of comfort. Sooner, rather than later.

Starting about 13 years ago, I had occasion to be at several gatherings that James Safechuck was at. Back then, at age 27, he was striking looking. Movie star hot. When he walked into a room, you noticed him. At that time, I had no idea he'd been involved with Michael Jackson at all.

One thing that struck me at the time, that I never actually said to anyone (of course) was the disparity in looks with his wife. He was very attractive, and she... well, wasn't. Every time they would show up, I would think "what is going ON there?" However, James' looks were undermined by his complete lack of confidence. He always seemed uncomfortable in his own skin, and basically unaware of how attractive he was. He always seemed like he felt he had nothing worthwhile to say. And there always seemed to be an underlying sadness about him.

And remember, I thought this way before I knew that he was involved with Michael at all. Then, one day, I was reading one of those threads on there that basically reprints an entire book. I saw the same, "Jimmy Safechuck" (I'd only ever known him in person as James as far as I remembered, though someone must have mentioned his last name at least once) and it rang a bell. I looked up his picture, and HOLY SHIT! I realized WHO it was!

At that moment EVERYTHING made sense. The wife, the demeanor, it all fell together. Every question I had about why he was the way he was was answered for me in that moment.

So, while James certainly comes across credible in the movie and with Oprah, I can even vouch for an extra level of credibility. There is ZERO, and I mean ZERO doubt that he was molested by Michael Jackson. You can still have a "separate the art from the artist" debate if you want, but the question of Jackson's proclivities is settled. I honestly can't imagine Macaulay Culkin watching Jimmy speak and not finally coming forward with AT LEAST words of support for him, even if he still refuses to confirm anything about being molested himself.

If it were only Wade Robson speaking (who also comes across credible) the lunatic MJ "truthers" would have a much easier time. The presence of James really complicates things for them, because he's pretty unimpeachable. I hear Wendy Williams expressed support for MJ this morning. Did she say she actually watched the doc? Because if she did, and still made those comments, she's an awful person.

The Jackson’s and their supporters come across like Scientologist to me. All they have is conspiracy theories and smear campaigns against the accusers. They don’t seem to have much dirt on Jimmy because all they do is talk about Wade,Wade,Wade.

Does the Jackson estate have a hate website for Wade Robson yet?

R427 yeah they reminds me of both Scientologists and Trump supporters. I believe the loon on here who's supporting MJ and disparaging the two accusers is a Trump supporter and a pizzagate spouting loon. That would seem to make no sense, but it actually does make sense. Same mentality.

I hate the times we're living in. So find out that SO many of us are SO stupid had really been a bummer.

Watch the Oprah special after the movie. Say what you will about Oprah, and yes she talks too much, but she understands this subject and asks great questions. And she knows how to follow up. Most journalists could learn a lesson or 20 from her.

Both Robson and Safechuck have clearly been through some intense therapy. Robson is further along, but Safechuck is still an open wound. That poor man has no poker face at all, he shows every emotion. It's actually stunning to watch his face not only when he's talking, but listening to others. He's completely vulnerable.

Times have changed since the 70s and 80s. During his trial(s), the defense that he was a misunderstood child-man, and there was nothing sexual about his relationships with kids, seemed kind of credible to anyone not following too closely.

So for those of you who weren’t alive in the 80s, here's an answer to the question, “what kind of a mother lets her kid have sleepovers with a grown man?”

This was Michael fucking Jackson, a musical supernova of the time, THE most adored, celebrated entertainer on the planet. This wasn’t just some “grown man.” (And he did not act like one.) How could the mothers NOT have been dazzled? Their son was plucked out of zeroville, and the family was rocketed over the moon. This was like winning the lottery for your kid, times a thousand.

Not an excuse, just some perspective.

Oprah is one of the last adults in the room. She needs to bring her show back.

For whatever reason, Wade Robson had better tools with which to handle what had been done to him. Both of them were let down by their families (worst of all, their mothers who is the one person on earth who is supposed to protect you.) Both of them felt devastating heartbreak. The kind you're not supposed to have to feel until your early '20s. They had to go though it a very young ages, with no one to support them. And both were clued into the evil that lurks in some men's hearts.

I picture James crying on the couch all night. And I picture Wade working on his dance routines, and working up choreography. Wade was ASTOUNDINGLY successful. He seemed to be able to put aside what was done to him by focusing on his work. Whereas James kind of languished going thought a protracted existential crisis. Which is understandable. If life is just people using you for the own ends, and then discarding you , what is the purpose of living? I really, really hope he is able to overcome.

Michael was ALWAYS manipulative. He had a cunning, underhanded way of doing things. Remember the Beatles catalogue? McCartney hated him after that. Now, I'm no fan of Macca but I agree with him here. He thought MJ was a friend.

And then the way MJ would put out all those weird stories and then cry that he was being unfairly attacked in songs ("Leave Me Alone").

All those performances where he is treated like a God (remember Jarvis Cocker at the Brit Awards?) - that was MJ painting himself as the King of Pop. Yes, the industry assigned him that role but he also insisted on it wherever he was.

And of course, all the plastic surgery denials. Please. If we're going to attack credibility, let's call out MJ and his constant lying about his morphing face.

R430, but the allegations were made in 1993 and 2005, not the 70/80s. That said, as much as I disliked the moms and found them neglectful, I wondered if many people could get seduced. My sister has a son very much in line with the boys Michael targeted. She is not a stage mom, she's fairly well off, but sadly I can possibly see her being taken in by the glamorous lifestyle and MJ's tactics. Luckily her husband would've never allowed it. Oddly enough, at the time of his death, she thought MJ was innocent (she's not rabid like the stans) her husband thought guilty all the way. Michael wasn't some Joe Schmo, he had a lot to offer, which he used to manipulate. I can totally picture him laughing his ass off at the moms and sisters behind their backs. He had no interest in them; they were taken in and thought he had affection towards them and that he was family.

Wade Robson's family were more upset about Jackson dying than their own husband and father

Watched the doc and the Oprah interview, at the very end of interview Wade and Jim hug one another. So tightly. It broke my heart.

I have such a crush on adult Jimmy. Lovely man.

James wife seems to be sincere and really love him, I like them both.

Wade and his wife come off as more fame seekers and less sincere. I do believe he was molested but I don't personally like him.

R426, did you have any sense that Jimmy is gay?

R433, true. Michael was the ultimate liar. When he was called out, he would feign innocence. Remember his song with the lyric Jew me, Sue me? He was also caught making veiled anti-Semitic statements. It was all an attack on Jordan Chandler and his family who were Jewish. It's been said that armband he was so fond of always wearing was modeled after SS armbands the Nazi's wore. He was hiding all of this in plain sight and always got a pass. I'm so glad he's finally being exposed.

R435, yeah, that was so sad. I think Jimmy's mom's reaction to MJ's death was the the most fitting. Ah, Jimmy really broke my heart. He was sweating bullets during the Oprah interview. I really hope he pulls through and learns to love himself and to know none of this was his fault. His mom even said he didn't reach his potential in life because of this trauma. I hope he is one day able to.

Wade became very famous in his own right. He was constantly performing and giving interviews about his choreography.

They're very different personalities. They both have vicious cases of PTSD. James' case seems to be more severe but Wade is more professionally polished and has had more therapy.

James was beautiful as a child and grew into a gorgeous man. Did he put together any kind of career after showbiz? The super chipper, naive/dim wife was an obvious choice. She married way up in hotness so she does all the work while he has nervous breakdowns, poor thing.

Interesting, r440.

Now, I know La Toya is not the most reliable, but I remember her book which came out in the early '90s. She mentioned how her parents were anti-Semitic as well as some of her siblings. She also wrote a chapter about how scary Phil Spector was, and this was long before his legal troubles. So, in this instance, I believe her. Which gives credence to what you said. I remember the lyrics in "They Don't Care About Us". I didn't realize they were about the Chandler family. Makes sense now.

R439 Hard to answer. Like I said, he was physically attractive, but no sexual vibe at all. That said, there was a certain gentleness (for lack of a better term) there that I guess might set off some people's gaydar.

But, no, I never got the impression that he was gay. If anything, he seemed more like the straight guy who's wife was dragging him to something he didn't really want to go to.

And, just to be clear, they were both only ever nice. Though, as I said, he was always sort of forlorn.

As for the wives... obviously, the two men processed things differently. I got the sense Wade's wife was better equipped to deal with the fall out. Jimmy's wife seemed out of her depth with him. Not blaming her, it's a horribly tough situation, she just seemed a little clueless. Like with his moods, why not probe more? Then when he was about to reveal the abuse she said he was sitting at the end of the bed, which he never did, and she still wouldn't stop working at the computer. He had to finally tell her to stop and turn around. I just didn't feel the connection between them as much as I did with Wade and his wife.

Poor James in the Oprah interview was sweating and his neck and chest were red.

Will Oprah interview be available online anytime soon?!!

Jackson played the “ poor pitiful me I never had a childhood” card to the parents of James and Wade. And, it worked! It sounded like he only had to play it once for the parents and they never questioned that this adult man should be endlessly indulged. An adult man who had every resource available to him, that is, psychologists, therapists, or how about healthy adults or mentors (all avenues rejected by Jackson). Yet, they allowed their children to be immediately and knowingly used like a stuffed toy to comfort a grown man’s desire “to be a kid.” This should be an immediate red flag to any parent. Oprah did a great job on the after-program which I noticed is also being shown on OWN. So at least watch the after-program on OWN if you don’t have HBO.

R446 I was typing and now see your question. So check out Oprah’s after-program on OWN if you have cable. Everyone in the audience saw the 4 hour doc immediately before the after-show - if I understood that correctly.

petition being made to remove his star, hope it happens. his reputation is fukd. I bet more men come forward with similar tales.

R449 Link?!

R343 oh , I’m remembering that dancing (I watched parts 1&2 and the after show back to back Monday 5 hrs 15 min) and I remember, I think it was Wade as a child, performing Jackson’s dances and dropping to the floor and doing that simulated intercourse/thrusting move. I thought, right there, how do you permit your child to do that? What is wrong with you? Just because you think your child and other children watching don’t understand the significance? WTF? You supervise your child; you parent your child and you can absolutely get a child on board with modified choreography, for example. There was a constant refrain from the mothers: they didn’t want to get in the way of Jackson and their son’s blossoming relationship. Bizarre behavior from the mothers. The behavior of the mothers was worse than I imagined. That was most surprising to me. Not the extent of the sexual abuse which was horrific. I had figured it would be since the hard core porn and child (?) porn info was reported years ago so I think that was why that was not as surprising to me as the actively enabling mothers.

The older Robson son was the only one with any brains. The mom, sister, and Wade blindly followed after Jackson and the father was too weak to do anything.

If you have not seen the two part documentary, then you should go to HBO.com to sign up for the seven day free trial of HBO Now, then cancel before the trial period ends.

I'll write my review of the program and its case in a while.

Wade is not credible because he comes off as an arrogant SOB which he also did as a child surprisingly. James on the other hand is harder to ignore as he looks traumatized still and like he will be a suicide within the year. All of this publicity cannot be helping him despite insistence to the contrary.

What was up with that creepy call from Jacko with the cockeny accent?

Was that when he was hanging out with Madonna?

I came to this documentary with no firm view one way or the other. But having watched the whole thing and the Oprah interview, MJ must have done it.

Logically, a grown man doesn’t spend that much time with children, engage in what looks like classic grooming behaviour, sleep in the same bed as them and tell them he loves them, unless he is abusing them. But MJ was such a strange person that he seemed to be able to suggest, and convince many, that hanging out with kids was just an idiosyncrasy rather than perversion. Wendy Williams yesterday repeated the “MJ didn’t have a childhood” logic and I think many people bought that and still buy it..

There is something about how Wade comes across that makes him harder to believe than James. I don’t know what it is — someone above said he is further along the healing process and has had more therapy and maybe that’s it, but he has an unusual manner about him. James is more believable.

All of MJ’s publicly-admitted actions such as clearly having a favorite boy and hanging out with them so much, suggest he was an abuser, and James comes across as someone who was abused. I suppose all this means MJ must have done it.

Whether you like the victims or not should be irrelevant R454 Also you feeling they have suffered enough should not play into how credible you find them.

r455 he was imitating (badly) Wade's Aussie accent which now he seems to have lost

If anyone hears where to see the oprah interview replay - pls share!

The thing that really struck me is who lets their little kid talk on the phone for 7 hours? I have young nieces and nephews I love dearly but a 15 minute phone call would be stretching it, didn't they wonder why a grown man with a busy life would spend that much time talking to a little kid?

Wade is a washed up dancer whose biggest claim to fame is dating Britney Spears, essentially breaking her up with Justin Timberlake. Wade is now married with kids and wants to cash in. I don't believe his story.

Wade had a baby blaccent even though he was an Aussie

If it had been any guy then yes R460 suspicion would have been aroused and acted on, but people fawn over celebrity, there are those who would dumbly sacrifice their children to get near the stardust. Jackson targeted ordinary families who would be the most awed by his status/fame/money etc. He must be the pedo's pedo, imagine the run of the mill pedo with just a bag of sweets or a puppy in the car to lure their victims with, they must have been green with envy at how Jackson was able to operate, right out in public. Glad Jackson is ruined, wish it had happened when he was breathing.

Heartbreaking photo of James Safechuck, once the golden child reduced to an umbrella holder and servant for his abuser. SAD

You can see the desperation in Jimmy's face and arrogance in Jacko's face

Both sides of lawyers have said if Wade Robson would have testified against Jackson in 2005 things would have gone a lot differently. I do give him a side eye for still protecting Michael at that age.

Wade comes across as more polished. He also has more credibility issues--he was very convincing as a child and again as an adult when he said Michael never touched him. It also probably doesn't help that he has kind of a douchebro vibe about him.

James is just so much more vulnerable. You can seen the damage in his face and hear it in his voice. He seems like he's barely hanging on.

Off topic, but how did MJ stay so sickly skinny? Did he follow some sort of bizarre diet? His family all tends to be heavier.

R467 Coffee enema

MJ was abused too, right? His grooming expertise makes me think he learned it from someone who did the same to him and his awful father and family when he was young. His dad might have abused him too, but he clearly knew how to groom and manipulate entire families.

[quote]I hate to admit it but I was really disappointed when they introduced the wives. I was sure they were both gay.

Yeah, you absolutely should...at least in public.

I think Wade was more “TV ready” than James, but I don’t have any trouble believing his story. You have to remember that he was in the business, so he’s probably more aware of what they need for a good scene--if that makes sense but those details were so explicit. So specific.

My interpretation is that both were molested but James actually fell in love with Jackson. And what really cemented that for me was the analogy he used to explain the frequency of the abuse. Paraphrasing, he said it’s like when you first begin a relationship with someone, and you’re constantly having sex. I mean...that’s insane. It could also be his way of rationalizing his “Part” in the relationship. BUT the way he looked at those rings? I don’t think I’ve EVER seen such confliction in an abused person. It was stunning. JESUS, Jackson did a number on that kid.

Did anybody else get the feeling that James doesn’t necessarily think of himself as a victim? He seemed...heartbroken. Could Jackson be THAT manipulative?

Also, I have NO DOUBT that Jackson molested Macaulay Culkin or Feldman --possibly Haim. Those kids were probably molested so often by so many people --male and female--that it’s all a blur to them. I mean...they were his type. He loved blonde white boys.

I really felt for James Safechuck. He's a sensitive and hurt person. He's still reckoning with what happened. Wade is not arrogant. I saw him as more stoic, a little more walled off. More a classic men can't or don't show emotion thing. I believe these guys. One the puzzling things about the hardcore Jackson fans.. aren't you seeing these guys loved MJ too? Poor James still doesn't want to let MJ down. Heartbreaking.

If any legit twitter verified type comes out as a Jackson uberfan I will get angry. He was a open pedophile. Adult men to not share beds with 10, 12 boys and parade them around and that's the part of this we ALL saw. It's insane that fame, money and power allowed him to do this Openly. What does that say about celebrity culture?

I enjoyed his music and videos as much as the next 80s kid but none of these "fans" were there! Why is it necessary to discount survivors? I don't get it, can't you still enjoy is music on your own time? Their arguments are terrible. It didn't happen to Macauley so it didn't happen to anyone. That's not how it works, maybe he had a slightly more chaste thing with Macauley or btw the Home Alone kid grew up to be kinda weird, hmm? James and Wade lied on the stand. Well, they were terrified and confused, did Wade want to detonate is his whole world, his career, his whole history over something he couldn't even process yet? His wife described the final revelation as a bomb. I hope it was cleansing for them ultimately. He couldn't face any of this yet! I can not imagine what this is like at 7. It clearly puts your life on a whole different track. They investigated MJ for 10 years and found nothing. Huh.. in the doc it was clear Jackson was trying to be careful before all the scrutiny.. I believe them. Look at James face. This is so crazy because it's so interlocked with these powerful feelings about children wanting to be loved and idolatry.

Agree the Oprah special was great. Yes to her point: MJ was both a kind, sweet, caring person AND the person who did these things.

R470, James told Oprah he's still coming to terms with his love for Michael despite the abuse. He also told her he still feels guilt for "betraying" Michael.

....

R473 RIGHT? FOH with that "He wasn't trying to become white" bullshit.

R472 I haven't watched the Oprah special yet. That's so FUCKED UP.

where did pedo jacko learn his grooming skills? la toya said joe the dad used to abuse the girls at night. sometimes momma Jackson would tell him to lay off that night, the girls needed sleep.

that rat bastard dad was mike's model for rapist... tho mike took it way far, he was a sick fuk. hope they do rip up his star and cleanse the spot with hella bleach.

hope the Jackson family gets sued by all the boys Jackson molested, god knows there must be a lot

its said at his height in neverand, droves of mommys came with their boys to ask if Michael wanted to 'meet ' their son.

he lined them up and picked who he wanted.

Feldman says that he and other kids hung around Michael all the time and he never touched any of them. He says he spoke with the other kids and they all say the same thing— that Michael was never inappropriate.

[quote]Yes to her point: MJ was both a kind, sweet, caring person AND the person who did these things.

I’m not sure I agree with O here. The more we hear about Jackson, the more I think we must view everything through a lens of manipulation. He wasn’t a kind, caring person— but he could play one.

Even beyond the molestations, look at his cruelty to the animals on the ranch. Look at how he treated his staff and his home.

Perhaps there was a genuine person at the bottom of all this, but to me every action, every behavior was purely transactional as a means of Jackson getting what he wanted.

Michael’s niece Brandi used to date Wade and she’s calling BS.

Oprah's point was that to the VICTIM (and their families) the abuser can be both. And she's right that too many people simply don't understand that.

You're right R480. Thanks for clarifying that.

So Corey's logic is that if he didn't molest all children then he didn't molest any. What a douche.

Wade is a known manipulator in the business, which is probably why he comes across as disingenuous.

R461 you're wrong not to believe Wade. Even if you're put off by his personality, his words are credible. When he speaks about MJ now, and when James speaks about MJ, it has the ring of truth. Not one word they have to say about it now rings false.

This Brandi sounds like an idiot. It doesn't surprise me that MJ set her and Wade up. It's perfectly in line with his MO of trying to make people believe he didn't molest Wade. And, Wade cheating on her, or the length of their involvement have nothing at all to do with Wade being molested. He comes off way more credible than she does.

Corey Feldman is a fucking idiot. He repeated the lie that Jordie Chandler wrote and open letter admitting he made it up. Fuck him, seriously.

I really hope more of Jacko's victims find the courage to come forward.

Jabba sure has quieted down since the HBO airing.

Corey just wants attention. He spoke out against Michael during the 2005 trial, saying even though Michael's didn't molest him, Michael showing him naked pictures was "inappropriate" and that if an adult man did those things with his own son, Corey would "beat his ass."

corey is a known liar, he is a known creep

Stop mentioning corey feldman. he's a joke. R473 GROSS. Look at him on the right in that pic with the praying hands pretending to be sweet. So manipulative. Did anyone else notice during the trial how MJ walked very slowly giving the impression he was frail and sick? (more manipulation by the way). Wade said he felt sorry because he looked so frail and pale. lmao. Well yea he's bleaching at the highest dosage! And THEN when he got the not guilty verdict he had no problem jumping on the roof of the car all by himself. He is a lowlife. Rancid and rotten to the core. Burn in hell bitch. I am so proud of myself for never being a fan and always saw him as the creepy weirdo he really was, which to me is as obvious as it gets. 😆 But, people are dumb (in general) and blinded by celebrity.

JABBA’s all over this thread defending that pedo fuck.

R490 LAMO

Slightly OT, but it's been said that the reason Madonna stopped hanging out with MJ was because she was uncomfortable with the constant presence of young boys, in MJ's house and traveling with him wherever they went. They had that famous "date" at the Oscars together, but after that you never saw them together again.

Some Jacko fans are challenging Wade Robson to take a lie detector test. I do believe that he is telling the truth but I wonder why he hasn't taken one yet, or if he will now. I'm sure the body language experts will be taking to the documentary as we speak; they're never truly never non-biased but some are really credible, like ex-FBI trained and some are not. This woman looks at the differences between the two statements of 2005 and 2013.

#489 bravo sir. well said

I love how they all focus on Wade. They don't have the balls to go after James.

So [bold]THAT[/bold] was what "Beat It" was about...

R495 which shows how full of shit they really are. Not interested in the actual truth, only making a rhetorical case for plausible deniability.

His music make me sick now. I will never enjoy any of his tunes again.

Someone who was handed over to a child molester by his own mother at the age of seven seems affected? Well, Hells Bells, Trudy!

[quote]Adult men to not share beds with 10, 12 boys and parade them around and that's the part of this we ALL saw.

Exactly. Jackson paraded those boys around like they were his significant others. Holding hands, attending parties and events together, etc. They were on "dates" together. He did all the same things with those boys that two adults who are a couple do with each other. Sick, sick, sick. In retrospect, it was so brazen and obvious. If an ordinary, regular adult man behaved this way with a child, the police would be called in two minutes but everybody was so blinded by Jackson's fame and celebrity they couldn't see what was staring them in the face.

I guess the only good thing that has come out of this horrible situation with Jackson is that if another celebrity ever tried doing the same thinks that Jackson did with kids, nobody would be fooled and an intervention would happen right away.

Both mothers were searingly honest about their naivete and stupidity in dealing with MJ over the years. They chose to be part of the documentary and allow their lives to be opened to criticism. While I don't condone their actions with MJ, I really don't understand how there can be so little sympathy or understanding for them here. I guess it's very easy to judge.

How has James made a living all these years?

The Oprah special is a must-see, IMO. I did the 7-day HBO trial on Amazon and accessed the documentary and the aftershow. While she does have a tendency to talk too much, she asked great questions and was very good at drawing the men out. She also put things into a wider context. I'm glad they have someone of her stature on their side.

I feel so sorry for both men. James is so vulnerable it's heartbreaking. But Wade is heartbreaking too, in a different way. Because he's been in the business since he was child, he's much more poised, which people misinterpret as being slick or uncredible. He's been dealing with his abuse longer than James as well, so he has a stronger grasp of what was done to him, and more confident in his convictions.

As the first of the two to come forward, he's been taking a lot of abuse from fans and the estate for a long time. He would have to develop a pretty tough skin just to survive all that. James said it was Wade coming forward, and seeing his interview on TV, which brought everything to the surface for him. If it wasn't for Wade's courage, without a doubt James would still be suffering in silence, or worse.

I hope both men can, or will come to see, that while the fans and the estate may scream the loudest, there is a huge outpouring of support in the general public. Anyone who watches the documentary and still doesn't believe them is either brain dead or has a vested interest. I would be willing to bet the vast majority of those denouncing their stories haven't seen the documentary and never will, though some will claim they have to give their "doubts" and "criticisms" the appearance of more validity.

if u had kids, or loved them as precious treasures, u might be less sympathetic to moms who rent their boys out to a monstrous pedo. they knew what was going on , but enjoyed the ride too much.

ide never speak to my momma if she did that to me. ever.

I felt very attracted to James in the documentary, the way he spoke, his sensitivity, he is the kind of guy I'd want for a life partner. Whether it was the abuse that made him so vulnerable, I don't know... but I finished the doc in tears feeling so protective of the guy. The emotion of attraction I felt wasn't lust, it was based on caring.

Both Wade and a James said MJ hated woman and didn’t trust them.

What was the Jackson mother like?

Please stop writing like that, R504. This is Datalounge. Look around. No one does that here.

^ She stood by and watched all the abuse heaped on the children by the father. She didn't do much to help her children. There you have it.

Yes, here at the DL we are well-spoken and sophisticated.

Any verification of sizemeat?

r506 Jackson's mother was a simple minded idiot who enabled his dad to abuse the kids.

wanna hold james and make it all ok

sweet soul.

R506, his issues with women were directly related to his fame. When he was little and performed with his brothers in the Jackson 5, the older boys would bring groupies back to the hotel room and have sex with Michael there, sometimes hiding under the bed. That fucked him up. He also resented his brothers getting married and moving out, because for so long it was them against the world. Michael also said "Billie Jean" was based on the many women who falsely claimed he or his brothers had fathered their children.

I doubt joe Jackson, the monstrous daddy, was the only abuser in that family of twisted men...

poor young Michael, surrounded by brutes and bullys.

R505, I feel exactly the same way! He'd make a wonderful boyfriend/husband.

R443, thanks. It's his gentleness that's such a turn-on. And how he bites his lip when he's feeling ambivalent about something.

OMG please stop fetishizing James Safechuck. Yes he's handsome and vulnerable and seems very sweet. He's also very damaged and day to day life is probably very difficult. Listen to him and his wife talk about his inability to function at times. He's no Manic Pixie Dream Boy.

Yes, Jackson hated women and wanted the boys to hate them as well. Read the excerpt posted above. He was fuming mad that Safechuck had a 4th grade girlfriend and that he had a crush on Sheryl Crowe. Told him he could be the only one. He had Jordan recite women were wenches, bitches, heifers and hoes. I mean this is a grown man telling small children these things. He was a master manipulator. The boys didn't have the emotional intelligence at that age to understand what was truly happening.

R514 I regret never really starting a one on one conversation with him. He always seemed so stand offish and aloof. Now I realize he's just painfully shy. Make no mistake, doing this movie and Oprah was not easy for him.

However, I remember playing Rock Band with him many times. He was always on drums,, and I always sang.

Not sophisticated, R509. Just very little of the “2 hot 2 b b-lieved” kind of shit. It’s just so annoying to read. It also comes off as so try-hard. It’s an insecure person’s way of expressing himself, trying to look like he doesn’t put too much effort into his posts in case his opinions aren’t well received. My mother used to write like this on Facebook.

Reminds me of the Iraq soldier dubbed the Marlboro Man. When the media ran his picture of him in combat with a cigarette dangling from his mouth, the press and readers were wetting themselves fantasizing about his rugged manliness and 1000-yard stare. Turns out the poor bastard was a physical and emotional wreck and in no shape to be anyone's fantasy hero.

I know R518, just joking.

R491=pedo defender cunt fuck

[quote]LAMO

Also retarded. Don’t forget retarded.

i volunteer to bring in a bulldozer to tear up his star on that street...

Sadly, I don't think the American entertainment machine has the guts to do anything. This will blow over and his music will keep blaring from the DJ booths and speakers, just like at Sundance. For some reason, he is still untouchable, even after his death.

^ Because he is still, even in death, a billion dollar industry.

he is done. people not going to want to hear the music of a man who sucked on the butts of 7 yr old kids...

Michael and Jimmy - creepy

wonder what his old buddy rev al Sharpton thinks now after viewing this epic tale of a pedo

People in the Industry must've known what was going on for YEARS. Everybody knows everybody else's business in that world.

I'm not sure how people can look at the pictures at r417 or r526 and say this man wasn't a pedophile......

And to the idiot whining about lie detector tests they are NOT accurate, and if you think they are.....why don't you get Michael's family members to take one? Or Corey Feldman?

no kidding, jacko looks like he bout to cannabilize the kid , and knows he wont, like trump, be charged with a damn thing.

old trump, friend of both Jeffrey Epstein, pedo, and MJ...

I don't think the Jackson family can count on millions cuming in any more, a lot will, but not as much since the truth has been shown.

no more weekly Louis Vuitton shopping for momma Jackson.

i loved the remarks of salesclerks in high end stores when the whole family would come in, like beasts scarfing up ev thing they could see that screamed money. LOW CLASS BUMS.

The video of Jimmy and MJ at the very beginning of the first episode was heart breaking. The adoring way Jimmy looked up at him, desperate for approval, giddy at receiving it, like someone completely smitten. At one point it looks like he wants to put his arms around Jackson, but then catches himself, having been instructed to not act so affectionately in public. Watch it again if you can.

I understand that Jackson didn’t just groom these boys. He worked on their families. And I try to be extremely sympathetic to them. I have never been in the presence of a celebrity like Jackson at his peak. Still, when Jimmy’s mother talks about showing up at Neverland to discover Jackson had invited another family with a new, younger boy, and how she immediately realized that they’d been replaced, she says something that really pissed me off. She says that she could tell the new family had been hearing the same lines from Jackson that he’d once fed them. Telling them to not talk to anyone, not trust anyone, etc. She acknowledges, right there, that she was aware that Jackson was manipulating them and attempting to isolate them from others. And when she said they’d been replaced, who did she think was being replaced, really? The middle-aged stage parents he so adored and wanted to share his bed with? Please. She knew it was about the boys. It was always about the boys. Both Wade and Jimmy were betrayed by so many adults.

Jimmy looked like he was going to cry during most of the Oprah special.

I only watched the documentary, not the bit with Oprah. Is it also on HBO on demand?

It's all on HBOGo.

I think it's interesting that Michael's targets went from gorgeous little showbiz aspiring boys to the housekeeper's son. I'm not putting down Gavin by any means, but there was a difference between him and the previous kids in terms of looks, social-economic background and polish. I mean Michael flew Wade and Brett all the way out from Australia and took them all over the world. If what the poster said above about tons of moms bringing their sons to him, ugh, then he was obviously selective. I guess by the time he got to Gavin, his star had dimmed and it seems like it was a crime of opportunity. Jimmy, Wade and particularly Jordan grew up to be attractive adults too.

That picture of Jimmy holding the umbrella is heartbreaking.

I was older than MJ and grew up with him in the Jackson 5. I liked his music and but was not a huge fan. I will say when I watched the Motown 25 special, I (and millions of others) watched him do Billie Jean for the first time, moonwalking and blowing everyone away. He became a superstar that night. He did some amazing things in the 10 years after that, but I always felt he was kind of creepy and never really grew as an artist or a person. I don't get how adults wanted to hang out with him (after the stardust wore off.) I also don't understand why anyone even back then wasn't aware of the creepiness of him hanging out with young boys. Though I didn't know the details, none of them surprised me. Though the manipulations were fascinating. "I'm so lonely, I like hanging with a real family!" How many families did he say that to, I wonder? For the record, my partner is friends with someone who worked with Wade years ago and said he was one of the most honest persons she had ever met. I totally believe them both, and I thought Oprah did a masterful job. I never read anyting about Anthony Edwards before. Interesting...

Heart-breaking because that's how far he'd fallen from the MJ graces, and MJ derived some sick pleasure from demoting Jimmy from ace "special friend" to gofer. And poor Jimmy was just glad to be there. Poor kid.

Most of the well-known victims or special friends spent time with him very publicly prior to the 1993 charges: Jimmy, Wade, Brett, Jordan (and Sean, Macaulay and Emmanuel). Then, he must have been more discreet about repeatedly holding hands with a single boy. Perhaps more parents kept their children away from him after that. You didn't see much of him cavorting with kids until the Bashir documentary, which was then followed by charges from Gavin.

Look at this bullshit

What happened to the boy who lived with Jackson for like 3 or 4 years, later on in his career I think? IIRC he was from a middle eastern country, the family left everything behind to move into Neverland where the boy lived with Jackson in the main house and the rest of the family lived in a guest house far away from the main house. And the boy's parents were basically treated like hired help, the mom I think was like a nanny for Jackson's kids. They weren't even allowed to leave the Neverland without permission from Jackson's security team. I don't think this family has ever spoken out publicly that I'm aware of. I wonder if they got a massive payout from Jackson.

Michael treated James like a slave. It's sick.

....and this shit, here. That's Bill Bray, MJ's head of security. Here's a thought - maybe MJ surrounded himself with other pedophiles.

Other people in the entertainment industry (other entertainers, lawyers, producers etc.) HAD to have gossiped about MJ and those boys while all of this was going on. It's impossible to believe that many people in the Industry, including some of MJ's contemporaries in the music business, didn't have strong suspicions that something was very wrong.

I have just finished part 2. I find James (Jimmy) very believable. There is no way in hell he is lying, his body language said it all. He was very uncomfortable during that whole interview. Wade... I want to believe him but he just comes across as a famewhore. Idk, maybe it's because he grew up in show business, he just comes across as calculated and insincere. I'm not saying he's definitely lying. It's likely what he says happened really did happen. It's just the way he comes across, it makes it harder to believe him than James. Everything he said... about his brother's wife's dream etc, like wtf?! It seems so far fetched. James on the other hand was clearly in emotional pain during the whole documentary. The substance abuse, the drinking.... he was never over the abuse and it clearly affected him. I believed him when he's said he's still working through it.

^ r544, I agree. There is a picture of him with one of his boys and they are hanging out with Liza Minnelli (of all people). She has this uncomfortable look on her face. I'm too lazy to look for it right now but it's pretty telling.

I remember an issue of Spy from back in the day (this was before he was publicly accused by anyone) where there was a picture of him with some kids in a car or limo. The caption said something like "Michael Jackson alone with kids, not necessarily a good idea." That's a paraphase, but you get the gist.

r543, so gross. And the mirrored headboards, ugh.

Jackpedo's one glove...was that to cover up his stink finger?

I wonder if Wade being a workoholic actually helped him. Like, he just pushed all his feelings aside? Then he had a breakdown after the birth of his son, maybe? And it all came flooding back. He was unable to deal with it and just had to tell someone. I find it hard to believe when he said he never realized the abuse was actually abuse though, like it was just Michael's way of showing love, wtf?! And why did he lie twice? I understand being brainwashed at 11. I get why he would lie at Michael's first trial, but why lie at his second trial? He was 22. A grown up. He said the reason he lied was because he didn't want to risk his career. I found that whole excuse so far fetched. Some of the things he said didn't make sense, which made it harder to believe him. I believe James. Wade... I just don't know. Maybe it's the way he tells it which makes it seem fake. James just seems much more sincere.

If I ever met James, I'd want to give him the biggest hug ever. Watching the doc, I fell in love with him.

I finished part 2 last night R545 and I agree with what you said. The only reason I think Wade is probably telling the truth is because I don't think Jackson would have wasted so much time with him if he wasn't "putting out" (my God I hate even typing that, it's so sick). And Wade's mother's recollections pretty much support the pattern that was known as to how Jackson enticed and groomed the whole family. I do, however, think it's possible that Wade exaggerated a bit. Did any of the other boys say that Jackson tried to rim them (ugh!)? Also, I don't know if I believe the story that Jackson tried to penetrate Wade at 14, he was almost bigger than Jackson at the time he said, I just don't know if Jackson would have even been attracted to someone "that old". And Wade seemed like he was making up the part where Jackson sent for him to come to the studio, just so he could question him about the underwear. I think he might have made that up.

Also I agree with everyone that James is a sweetie, seems like a very sensitive and kind man.

548, The excuse for lying is not at all far fetched. He was in the dance world and MJ was/is a god in the dance world. I can imagine other dancers would not want to work with him if he was accusing their hero of molestation.

Keep in mind he did NOT want to testify at all in 2005. He was subpoenaed. He had no choice!

I believe Wade, he has been in showbiz so he has more finesse on camera. He definitely went through a transformation, no more obvious than vocally. As a child he spoke with an Australian accent. When he defended Michael in 2005, he and his sister had a black dialect, now both sound like your average white American. I wondered if he had that fling with Britney because Michael encouraged him to. He said Michael was obsessed with her and wanted to meet her asked what she was like. In the next breath during the doc, Wade said Michael asked him about his sex life with women. I sort of drew a connection, obviously he couldn't talk about his thing with Britney.

R546, that was Jimmy Safechuck

Those of you who doubt Wade because "why would he lie as an adult" really need to watch After Neverland with Oprah. It's completely normal for victims to deny the abuse, and yes, even defend the abuser, for years or even decades.

Unpopular opinion: I think James (Jimmy) is gay. He seemed gay even as a kid. Maybe he doesn't want to be gay because he connects it to the abuse. I'm sure he loves his wife and his kids. I just wonder if his life would have been different if he wasn't abused as a kid. Maybe he would have accepted his sexuality and been out and proud. Maybe there is another reason to his previous substance abuse, also did anyone hear the wife saying he stayed out and drank a lot? Hmm....

"I get why he would lie at Michael's first trial, but why lie at his second trial? He was 22. A grown up. He said the reason he lied was because he didn't want to risk his career. I found that whole excuse so far fetched. Some of the things he said didn't make sense, which made it harder to believe him. I believe James. Wade... I just don't know. Maybe it's the way he tells it which makes it seem fake."

Sigh, you realize Jerry Sandusky's adopted son told a grand jury he was not molested (he was an adult at the time) but then changed his story and said he was? Yet no one disbelieved him, no one said he was a liar who was never molested. Sometimes people lie because they don't want to deal with the pain or because they don't want people to see them as "damaged goods"

James doesn't seem gay to me at all. Just an introverted guy who doesn't feel the need for a lot of macho posturing.

And I think all the comments about his wife's looks are so fucking weird. She's plenty cute, and her personality is just the right balance for his.

How did Wendy Williams' audience react to her defending a pedo?

Notice how the Jackson defenders in the thread have gone quiet - a big difference than how they were in the previous (and now deleted) threads before the documentary aired.

I think MJ was straight and had sex with women. He probably liked Britney. I don't think Wade lied about that. Remember, he said MJ had straight porn. That does not necessarily mean he wasn't also a pedophile with a preference for young boys. Pedophilia is like a whole sexuality on its own. The one does not exclude the other. With that said, his marriages were clearly fake. Didn't Wade say MJ told him he "needed to get married"? Yep, seems totally real alright! lol

The documentary did an excellent job at explaining grooming. It seemed like MJ was an expert at it.

"Remember, he said MJ had straight porn."

He used that to get the boys aroused. Pedophiles who target boys often use porn for that reason. People who worked at Neverland said no adult women ever spent the night.

R557 Mmmm what you saw of her in the doc isn't quite representative of real life.

My only point was about 10 years ago he struck me as movie star handsome, whereas she's just sort of average looking. There's more to it, but I don't wanna be mean.

MJ picked boys from broken families, so it was easier to get close to them and get them to trust him, by being a friend/mentor/"new family". Also, all the moms were stage moms. I don't think that was a coincidence either.

R526 Looking like the crypt keeper in that pic. Evil. R555 I agree. I think both Wade and James are gay but connect those feelings with MJ. Just like it took years to face the abuse, it will take some more years before they unpack their homosexuality. I feel sorry for Wade's dad. He was like the mom in "Muriels Wedding". Sad. Wade cried for MJ but not his dad. The issues those two men have run deep. Like deep deep. Really deep. Messed up for life. It's not right.

I don't believe James is gay. He's equally disinterested in men and women.

I don't think Jacko ever had sex with a woman. I think he hated women and girls.

Wade. Some people are tougher than others. Some people can carry a load on their shoulders which other people would buckle under 1/10th of that load. Wade became emotional at the end of the Oprah interview when he explained that he began picturing his own child being sexually abused by MJ. He expressed anger and outrage at the thoughts of his own child being victimized in the same way by the same perpetrator. I think that Wade's deal is rooted in frustration and self-loathing for the fact that he cannot feel the same anger and outrage for HIMSELF! Here's the elephant in the room, and I'm sorry if it offends: They cannot yet reconcile the heinous proportions of the crime with the fact that they liked it. Don't shoot the messenger, please.

I think MJ was gay. I think he kept straight porn mainly for the reason of exciting young boys. I think he probably saw Britney as a potential trophy beard (like Brooke Shields) because she was the most popular female performer at the time. (That's the same reason he dated Madonna, but after a few minutes with her, he must have realized there was no way in hell he'd ever be able to manipulate her.) If he could "date" Britney, so many men would be jealous of him (instead of considering him to be gay). If he had a wife or girlfriend, parents would trust him more to be around their kids.

I remember MJ performing "The Way You Make Me Feel" at an awards show with Britney. I don't remember anything other than that. Perhaps she knew to stay away from him.

[quote]I think MJ was straight and had sex with women.

No way. Jackson was disgusted by women. He hated them.

His sexuality wasn’t straight or gay— it was pedo.

I think it's so hard to say on Jimmy and Wade's sexuality because they suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a man at a very young age, not like 15 or 16. A 7 year old doesn't understand sex or sexuality and introducing those acts to such a young child must cloud their judgment and thoughts on sex and sexuality going forward. I'm not saying they aren't gay, I'm just saying that they will likely always have negative associations with sex and sexuality that may prevent them from living a homosexual life or that may push them strongly in a hetero direction. Or they may just be straight. I think most people are "born that way" but early childhood rape can take things very far off the course it might otherwise have gone.

I worry about Jimmy and suicide. He's clearly still fucked up and will be harassed mercilessly by the Pedo defenders. I wouldn't leave him alone if I were his family/friends.

I completely believe Wade and I regret being on the hate Wade bandwagon when he first came out about his abuse.

I don't think James will ever be over what happened to him. Hopefully he will be able to live with what happened though. He seemed to be in deep emotional pain in the documentary. I felt so bad for him. This is what abuse does, it ruins lives, whole lives. People who are abused will never be the same. All they can do is live with what happened as best they can, but it will always be a part of them.

I don’t know or see anyone supporting this freak. The poster who keeps trying to show all this support for MJ is not convincing. I don’t see it anywhere. You must have to look high and low to find this support.

[Quote]I hate the times we're living in. So find out that SO many of us are SO stupid had really been a bummer.

Did this just occur to you now, and not when Trump was elected?

We need a new thread. Can someone start a part 3? I count this as part 2 and the HBO trailer thread part 1.

R567 I agree. They said that. They said it felt good. That it didn't feel bad. Jimmy said he wanted to keep doing it. That even now they are still torn because they still love him and there are good memories. Jimmy still has the rings for Pete's sake. He said it's hard to look at them. That's like you keeping something from an ex that hurt you but you can't let go yet because there are memories you have that are attached to it and looking at it brings up your feelings for them and the hurt/love. It's complicated. I think they definitely liked it as they got older. As children they didn't know. I think they still love him but they know that it was abuse and it shouldn't have happened to them that early (the sex and relationship like dating/courting). So now their heads are messed up and clouded with abuse being tied to their sexual feelings for men.

Why is it only the Jackson men who are coming out publicly to defend MJ? Are the sisters and wives reluctant because they know and don't want to lie. Where is the fuck is LaToya? Forget Janet, she's useless.

[Quote]So now their heads are messed up and clouded with abuse being tied to their sexual feelings for men.

This is why I think Jimmy is gay. He pings and I don't think he will ever come out or even admit to himself that he's gay because of what happened to him. He will always tie the abuse to his sexuality and it gets messy. Maybe he will come out in several years when he's had a chance to work through what happened with some intense therapy.

Sure, R576, what you write is admissible. However, it's long, long over due that they (especially Jimmy) channel some God-given resiliency and strength to flex and overcome. Now is the time to squash all the victim shit, toughen up like many have had to do besides them, and MOVE ON FOR GOOD!

The thing with Wade is that he grew up pursuing fame. So when the camera is on him, he jumps into interview mode and that comes across as fishy to some people. Not me cause I was a child actor so I get it.

When asked about the charges, MJ would never give a simple "no." He would say "I would never harm a child." In his twisted head he didn't believe he was harming them. And he was starting to think he could basically hide in plain sight, which is when he started looking like he was out on dates with Jimmy. I think that twisted fuck believed one day, his physical relationships with those kids would be accepted.

Then Jordy Chandler happened. I imagine Michael was shocked to have it all crumble down around him. From then on, I believe he stopped trying to groom kids from well-to-do families, and had to wait for poor, ethnic kids like Gavin to be caught in his spiderweb of sickness.

Also, I need to add, the way Jimmy talked about his relationship with MJ was telling. He even said he loved him. He knows the abuse was wrong but maybe he liked it too. I'm sure he has many mixed and confusing emotions over what happened to him.

[quote] I don’t know or see anyone supporting this freak. The poster who keeps trying to show all this support for MJ is not convincing. I don’t see it anywhere. You must have to look high and low to find this support.

I wish you were right. I was listening to a radio phone-in show while stuck in traffic and was taken aback by the calls and texts defending him. The host and his crew seemed surprised as well.

Give me a break, R579.

R579 Oh I totally agree. But unfortunately it's not that easy and simple. The brain works in mysterious ways.

Wow, look at all the dislikes on this video. The Jackson stans are awful.

Something else that was telling about James was he and his wife describing how they first met. She remarked to him that a friend of hers was interested in him and thought he was cute. He responded that she must have meant someone else. And not in a joking fake-humble way, he seemed to be genuinely surprised that some nice, pretty but by no means overwhelming gorgeous woman was flirting with him.

So here's this very good looking guy who's a guitarist in a rock band and who is/was friends with MICHAEL FRIGGING JACKSON, who traveled around the world with him, was in a hugely famous commercial with him, appeared onstage and in videos with him, and who got to meet celebrities and visit the most exclusive places in the world. You'd think he'd be a pretty self-assured, confident guy. Maybe even an arrogant asshole. No, he's insecure and shy and is incredulous that some nice girl is showing interest in him.

Clearly something "broke" him from the time he was a young outgoing quasi-child star to adulthood.

Here's your break: "Sometimes, Delores, sometimes a woman (YOU) have to be a high ridin' bitch to survive in this world." - Vera Donovan

You're welcome.

Where can I watch the Oprah interview? I really want to watch it but I'm outside America.

[quote]I remember MJ performing "The Way You Make Me Feel" at an awards show with Britney. I don't remember anything other than that. Perhaps she knew to stay away from him.

There was an MTV award show where Britney (in all leather) presented MJ with a cake because it was his birthday. In introducing him, she said he was her artist of the millennium, and that fucked up pedo narcissist thought the cake topper was an actual "Artist of the Millenium" award for him.

MJ totally mind f*cked these kids, not just physically, and it is no wonder they ended up confused, traumatised adults. Imagine all that going on and witnessing not a single adult around helping them, especially their own mother. Their entire world acted like this was normal. You don’t get over such betrayals. Ever.

I wish he had been caught and thrown in prison. MJ was a monster. A vampire consuming innocence. Talent be damned.

Any therapist worth his or her weight is going to tell them the same thing. Get it all out and dealt with for once and for all, and then MOVE ON. It has no place in the grand scheme of things. It has no right to define them for the rest of their fucking lives. That's just the truth.

[Quote]My interpretation is that both were molested but James actually fell in love with Jackson. And what really cemented that for me was the analogy he used to explain the frequency of the abuse. Paraphrasing, he said it’s like when you first begin a relationship with someone, and you’re constantly having sex.

Yup. One of the many reasons I think James is gay.

I agree r591 at the very least those kids grew up with a single alcoholic father. But the rest of the mental issues in their situation is staggering.

R587 Yeah. He doesn't love himself. He has shame and gulit and he shouldn't. Poor beautiful boy.

[Quote]Did anybody else get the feeling that James doesn’t necessarily think of himself as a victim? He seemed...heartbroken. Could Jackson be THAT manipulative?

Yes, I noticed this too. He had so many conflicting feelings, but it really did seem like he was looking back at that part with love.

The descriptions in r587 could also apply to Macaulay Culkin

^ Well, in fairness, Macaulay had all kinds of issues separate and apart from whatever relationship he had with Michael. The kind of fame he experienced and his monster of a father were more than enough to "break" him.

R477 How is that proof of anything? Just because he didn't touch THEM doesn't mean he didn't touch someone. It's clear Jackson had "favorites". He gained their trust over a long period of time before anything happened. Maybe Feldman and those other boys weren't his "type" or whatever. I believe James.

Did anyone else notice that the mothers of the victims STILL get giddy just talking about how amazing their lives were when their boy was flavor of the month? Don't tell me that these mothers had no idea what was going on. Especially after the first allegations of sexual abuse came out, they continued to pimp their boys out to Jackson knowing that he had been accused. I think deep down these boys know that their parents turned a blind eye and allowed them to be victimized, I think that must also be a huge source of their internal conflict as well.

Of course they were giddy. Because the families were groomed as well. The most famous person on the planet wanted to be a part of their family. Just like the boys had loving memories, so did the family members who also had what they thought were close relationships with Michael.

I think it was Wade who made a great point during Oprah's interview--the grooming started even before he met them. Michael banked on his image as this kind, soft-spoken, so famous but so lonely, didn't-have-a-real-childhood savior who just loved children so much he wanted to help them and make them happy. TO THIS DAY Michael has hard-core fans who still see him that way, despite even the undisputed troubling things we've learned about the real person.

Poor little child star who never had a childhood. So he figuratively and literally vampirically SUCKED away the childhoods of his victims.