Israel Under Attack From Land And Air - State Of War Declared, Part 2

Hamas has a death wish. I am convinced that fanatical Muslims would ignite a nuclear bomb if they got hold of one.

[QUOTE] Hamas has a death wish. I am convinced that fanatical Muslims would ignite a nuclear bomb if they got hold of one.

What a keen observation.

Some details so far from the last two days:

[quote] Reports say 57 soldiers, 34 police were killed;

[quote] 260 bodies found at the desert rave near Reim.

[quote] 15 Israelis were murdered in Netiv HaAsara

[quote] Overall more than 700 killed, 2,200 wounded

U.S. is sending warships to the region. If I was IDF I think I'd be offended.

I don’t think Putin would do it, R2. He is not that insane. But they are.

As of Sunday various reports say more than 2,400 people were killed in earthquakes in Afghanistan in the deadliest tremors to rock the quake-prone mountainous country in years.

[quote] Saturday’s magnitude 6.3 earthquake hit a densely populated area near Herat. It was followed by strong aftershocks.

The Sunday School lesson I was teaching the kids this morning was on the book of Jonah. It was a little surreal to be reading that book this weekend which is so plus ca change, plus ca meme, but at the same time it’s a powerful reminder to never allow your anger to completely dehumanize people who act as your enemies.

loo loo loo!!

^ #thankshamas ^

Just saw the Israeli Ambassador to the UN on the news saying that this is Israel's 9/11.

Until they're targeting elder lesbians in the US. THEY WOULD KILL YOU WITHOUT BATTING AN EYE. The people that talk like elder lez always go home safe and sound.

Of course Hamas would kill me without batting an eye. I am not sure I understand your point, R11, but suspect you’ve accidentally dropped a word or two which I often do myself.

I'm just in a state of despair, worried about what this means for the world.

My heart aches for the Israeli people and for the Palestinians who've lived in turmoil and chaos for so long.

Can't believe all the protests in the US supporting this massacre.

I'm sure Whoopi Goldberg will be supporting Israel on The View tomorrow, her being Jewish and all.

Aftermath of music festival where 260 bodies have been recovered so far:

My heart aches for them too R13.

The irony of anyone non-NA in the US staging a protest to say violence against colonizers is justified is insane. Jewish people have a a historic connection to Israel. Palestinians have no historic connection to midtown Manhattan. Are the offering themselves to be killed, raped and tortured by the Lenape?

This is what happens when trump leaves top secret documents stacked up in his bathroom.

Wishing for peace soon. And sending all the healing energy possible for those injured or in pain.

I don't think there's much support for this out there. Looking at my Facebook feed, no one has said a peep about this and no one has changed their face shot to an Israeli flag like they did for the Ukraine.

Healing energy. LOL. That's funnier thoughts and prayers.

You can't be serious R20. It's a completely different situation. Chalk and cheese.

And it's just Ukraine. Not "the" Ukraine.

Senator Cory Booker and Rep Daniel Goldman were there on Saturday

There will be peace when the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

It takes a village.

Visualize whirled peas.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

This machine kills fascists.

Peace is a journey of a thousand miles and it must be taken one step at a time.

Imagine all the people, living life in peace.

"I'm with Israel" -- Hillary

Trump is claiming that the wars in Ukraine or Israel would not have happened if he was President. Sure, Donald. Sure.

My pussy stinks!

I vote for dumping a shitload of estrogen in the water supply. I wanna see these machismo fuckers walking around with bitch tits. The violence will end when the high levels of testosterone go away.

Quick, someone find a way to blame Putin for this attack.

Israel under Bibi is going to try to seize / annex Jerusalem in retaliation. At which point Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon et al will join forces in an incursion against Israel.

No sooner did we end the wars and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan that this new conflict is going to define the next couple decades of geopolitical instability. Russia vs Ukraine will be a quaint blip on the radar when the story of the 2020s-30s is written.

[QUOTE] At which point Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon et al will join forces in an incursion against Israel.

Not going to happen.

I thought Jared Kushner had defused this whole situation

Egypt gets a lot of money from the US for maintaining a peace agreement with Israel. No way they do anything to jeopardize that. But I could see Israeli tourists being unsafe in Egypt and not going there anymore.

Obviously this whole attack was terroristic and tragic. But what’s Israel’s endgame by “going to war” if not to eradicate Palestine?

Let’s say they decimate the official leadership of Hamas. It’s only going to create a vacuum for a more draconian group of zealots to take charge, Moreover, creating greater instability will only expose an Achilles heel for Iran to target.

George Galloway's analysis is quite interesting, even if you don't agree with it. He provides a point of view that differs from the narrative that the MSM outlets are mostly promoting.

No matter what position we hold regarding the Israel/Palestine issue, I think that we can all agree that this is a tragedy.

R41 It's already happened.

I keep thinking about the fact that during World War 2 when considering where to re-settle Jewish refugees the Allied nations thought about Acapulco as an option. Acapulco would be like Santa Barbara right now if the European Jewish population had been re-settled there instead of the Middle East.

Sometimes I am convinced a portal to hell exists in the Middle East and also in colorado. So much evil and bad vibes

Apparently there still are Hamas soldiers fighting with Israeli troops inside Israel.

Hamas is firing rockets at the airport in Tel Aviv.

[quote]The Sunday School lesson I was teaching the kids this morning was on the book of Jonah.

Hi ElderLez! Did you know that ISIS blew up Jonah’s tomb in Mosul. Resistance is one thing; senseless destruction is another.

As a bit of comic relief, one of our lectors read about “Jonah going to NIVEA” to make the people there repent! We all smiled.

[quote] My heart aches for the Israeli people and for the Palestinians who've lived in turmoil and chaos for so long.

My heart doesn’t ache for the Israelis. They wanted all of this.

They are the ones with attack helicopters with hellfire missiles. They are the ones with F16s with laser guided bombs. They have America’s wallet and diplomatic support on their side. They could have chosen to set the Palestinians free and permit them to have independence. But they chose to keep them enslaved, crushed underheel, and to steal more and more of their land every year, indiscriminately killing more and more of them every year.

They have just reaped a tiny fraction of what they’ve sown. Their choice — they have all the power in this situation.

[quote]Can't believe all the protests in the US supporting this massacre.

Is this an oxymoron, malapropism, or some other form of language abuse?

The fecal odor of ugly Anscher is, as usual, most strong in this thread. Off his meds, the Judeo-Nazi must be a frightening sight indeed, screaming as he fills the thread with poisonous lies and distortions.

[quote] Just saw the Israeli Ambassador to the UN on the news saying that this is Israel's 9/11.

This is not 9/11, R10, in which 3 hijacked 747 planes loaded with fuel killed 3,000 people and took down the two tallest building in in NYC, as well as crashed into the Pentagon. The question is: will Netanyahu try to capitalize on this act of terror the way George Bush did?

LOL, R49, you're right! I should have said "marchers."

[quote] Wishing for peace soon.

Lovely sentiment, R19, but peace hasn't been part of the equation in this region of the world since 1947.

[quote]Sometimes I am convinced a portal to hell exists in the Middle East

My thought exactly. The people there have never gotten along for eons and never will. And they're likely to take the world down with them to the cheers of fundamentalist Christians.

R53, I think you mean BCE.

r53 Probably about 1914 to be honest. The Middle Eastern campaign and British mandate weren't exactly peaceful.

[quote]This is not 9/11, R10

I didn't say it was R51. I posted that the Israeli Ambassador to the UN just appeared on the news saying that this is Israel's 9/11. Please take it up with him.

R57, I'm not saying you said that. I'm saying it's a hyperbolic statement made by the Israeli ambassador. You did happen to mention it is all.

Neither was the Islamic Conquest, R56.

HANG IN THERE! IT'S ALMOST FRIDAY! 😽🙄

R56, Britain has a lot of blame to bear with this, as it does generally, with most of its shedding of its colonialist past that resulted in bad deals when the UK threw its hands up and cut its losses.

This is going to end very badly for the Palestinians.

It always does, R62.

R61, I think Islamic imperialism and the European genocide of the Jews followed by the demise of the Ottoman Empire have a lot more to do with the current state of things than Britain's inheriting this mess and having the misfortune of having to rule it for 30 years.

Britain has never "inherited" any mess it didn't think it could profit from, and it's never had any "misfortune" in ruling over any territory or country. It simply cuts its losses when everything turns to shit.

[quote]Just saw the Israeli Ambassador to the UN on the news saying that this is Israel's 9/11.

That's a bit of an overreach. Yes it's bad, but not 9/11 bad. Please tell me which two of the tallest buildings in Tel Aviv have collapsed.

Of course it's a ridiculous, lying statement, R66, meant to to arouse the sympathies of the world. It barely floated with 9/11 in the United States, and Bush shit all over any goodwill the world had for the US after 9/11 with the calculated invasion of Iraq and then Afghanistan. Bibi has a template in front of him.

The real war is happening agaiant Ukraine. This is a regrettable (and calculated) distraction.

[quote]Acapulco would be like Santa Barbara right now if the European Jewish population had been re-settled there instead of the Middle East.

LMFAO, No it would not. It's still Mexico one of the poorest countries in north America. They would be fighting with the drug cartel instead of Hamas. Wherever Jews go, there always seems to bring some sort of fighting around them, justifiable or not.

I grew up in Santa Barbara, dont think I met more than one Jewish person there until I moved to LA. Absolute culture shock.

It's being reported that Iran is suspected of being involved. This is not good.

This is a foregone conclusion, R70. How else could Hamas have the capacity to fire 7,000 rockets?

[quote]It's being reported that Iran is suspected of being involved. This is not good.

I read that in the Diana Scream Queen's voice.

Iran stepped in it, for sure.

[quote] It's being reported that Iran is suspected of being involved.

Been reported to you only now, Rose, R70?

Iran gave them the weapons.

R4 Why? It’s merely a concrete show of support to the world.

R62 As it should.

I dont care if Israel attacks Iran, but US needs to stay out of that one. Just opening a door to WW3 if the US starts bombing Iran.

This will never be resolved; there will never be "peace." Yes, that's an incredibly obvious observation.

R48 Did someone unlock your door and let you out? Perhaps you just arrived from an alternative universe?

I hope this doesn't give any our homegrown problem types ideas.

Evangelicals are mass orgasming over this. They're so horny for Armageddon and Jeebus.

With all the sanctions how could Iran afford all this? I don't believe it.

False flag, $83. The whole thing smells like a set up.

The funds haven't cleared yet for the Iranian hostages. Iran is NOT getting direct funds. They are getting provisions. If anyone blames the attack on the 6 billion, they are misinformed and/or a MAGA/Qunt.

Iranian hostages? WTF?

How much oppression and boots on their neck are the Palestinians supposed to take? Israel must work toward a two-stare solution and get the hell out of land that belongs to the Palestinians.

Israel: Stop building settlements on land that you stole.

Could be related to this. Eritrea helping Hamas?

R79 speaks the truth.

Our CEO sent our company this email today (Im in the US btw). Discuss..

The United States experienced the World Trade Center attack of 9/11 2001 as a huge crisis that was publicized all over the world and reverberated in its cruelty.These were a series of suicide bombings that took place in the United States, and are considered to date the largest and deadliest terrorist attacks in the history of mankind as well as the largest attack on American soil. On September 11 2001, 2,977 people were directly killed.

In Israel, nearly 1,000 civilians have been killed so far. The vast majority of them are Israelis as of this moment. I'm not talking about over 100 abductees who were kidnapped to Gaza. Israel is 1/36 the size of the United States.Take 1,000 dead, multiply by 36 and you get the relative equivalent of 36,000 dead, which is 12 times bigger than the 9/11 tragic events. And we shall call this out to the world – and maybe then what happened to us in Israel last night will permeate everyone. It's not "like Yom Kippur" because the world doesn't understand what Yom Kippur is.

There is no benefit in talking about and write and interview about fights Israel had in the 70s or 60s in a world where the biggest media consumers are Millennials and Gen Zs. The words are short to describe the feeling of cavity that gripped me and certainly everyone who watched the shocking photos and videos from the events of the last day. These bastards murdered, raped, looted and did not spare the elderly, children, infants and women. This is a war that has just begun, and we must be prepared for the future On all fronts.

But it is our duty - to improve the narrative and how information is to be shared. Truth be told:The events of October 7, 2023 in Israel are Israel’s - 9/11. And it's 12 times bigger than that.

Is your CEO an Israeli R90? Why would he send this out?

If they want to see Jeebus do badly, R82, they need to off themselves. Let everyone else THE FUCK ALONE. Our lives, our planet, our futures do NOT belong to them!

Who is your CEO? Do you work for Soda Stream or Starbucks? Hewlett-Packard ? John Deere? I boycott all these companies. They operate in the occupied territories. Where Palestinian houses are routinely bulldozed to make way for the settlements.

Sounds totally made up R90.

No CEO of a reputable company would send out an email like that because it would instantly end up in the media.

Now be honest - you wrote it didn't you.

How do you manage to get through the day boycotting John, Deere, R93?

John Deere*^

r91 Yes our CEO is Israeli. We are a small technology company (~1000 employees) based in Silicone Valley, most of the employees are in California though about 5% is remote in the rest of the US.

I found the message inappropriate for work, though I don't disagree with it in theory. I was just curious what others think before I head into work on Monday.

At least part 2 of this thread has less black and white thinking than part 1.

Yes it's completely inappropriate for a workplace setting R97 - especially from your CEO.

Fine if the CEO wanted to give a media interview with those sentiments included but to send out an email like that to your entire workforce. Unacceptable.

You work for a very unprofessional company.

'Silicone?'

What time is it in Ruzzia?

haha just a typo r100, im a real murican

Me know you are R101.

Good American boy.

Well, pastaboi is back so still BOLO TROLL-O.

[quote] Hamas has a death wish. I am convinced that fanatical Muslims would ignite a nuclear bomb if they got hold of one.

Yes but they'd use young brainwashed men named Mohamed to deliver the bomb, while the leaders are dispersed in deep bunkers far away with their floozes and porn collections.

Your CEO didn't send you shit.

Thanks to R93, I know which companies to support. Team Israel!

July 4, 1976

It was Bibi's brother who led the Israeli commandos who rescued the Jewish hostages at Entebbe. The terrorists and their African allies were annihilated. I'm eager to see Israel's 21st century version of Operation Thunderbolt.

R99 your CEO is a typical, run-of-the-mill megalomaniac who thinks he has the standing to comment to his employees on wars and politics as if he were some head of state. Insane.

Hamas are releasing videos of the captured soldiers being tortured and decapitated.

It's awful that Netanyahu forced them to do this.

A Jewish restaurant in London has been smashed up with Free Palestine painted on a nearby bridge.

There's a video of a man in a yellow tshirt lying on the floor in agony, bleeding heavily from his stomach being kicked in the face before someone starts hitting it with a shovel.

I turned the video autoplay settings off after that came on to my timeline. This has been confirmed to be a Filipino national.

They decapitated him.

Humans exploit each other to build the world, then openly destroy each other now and then over who gets to control it. Finally, they breed more humans to follow that same cycle over and over again. Crazy.

R90, Your CEO sounds like an idiot not only because he sent out that email, but also because his logic is childish and wrong. First of all, it's not just the numbers, 9/11 had two of the tallest skyscrapers in the largest American city obliterated killing thousand both in the building and on the ground. Has that happened in Tel Aviv? NOPE.

How about 4 large passenger planes full of innocent people hijacked and crashed into the heart of the city? Or one plane full of people used as a bomb crashing into the pentagon or in the case of Israel the Ministry of Defense? Yeah, No, none of that happened either. Is Tel Aviv completely shut down because of the destruction? Or just to be on the safe side? Are they in the dark as to who the terrorists are like US was for weeks? Or have they been in a fight with their known enemy for decades.

Yes, I know there is a war about to commence, not minimizing that, but bottom like your CEO is a bit of DRAMA QUEEN. Especially since he is sitting in a nice office thousands of miles away. He's trying very blatantly to work his employees for sympathy and alliance.

Allowing for the population difference the new Israel casualties are proportional to a dozen simultaneous 9/11s, and increasing by the hour.

By that calculation you could say a family of four killed in their home equals the Holocaust.

Give me a break.

These over exaggerated analogies to 9/11 are not helping. They are a false quaintly. All you are really doing is giving legitimate reason for Holocaust deniers to point out how the numbers are made up and extremity exaggerated.

[quote]Allowing for the population difference the new Israel casualties are proportional to a dozen simultaneous 9/11s, and increasing by the hour.

This could work both ways if you are going to play that game. The over representation of Jews in some fields like finance could also be interpolated as how the "Jews control the world". See how that works?

No need to let a bunch of dead Jews spoil his fun

Oh please, people die every minute of the day around the world. By your standard the President would never eat. The war is half way around the world. Life goes on, hate to break it to you.

R118, at least he is not out campaigning asking for money using the war as a political event.

R117 I rarely say this and rarely encounter it, but that sir, is an antisemitic statement. Comparing the outcome of 2 clearly terroristic acts has nothing to do with "world domination of Jews". Trying to draw a comparison tells me a lot about you. Are you going to start comparing crime rates in the Black community to make some kind of point next? The two scenarios have no equivalence so I don't know what your point could be.

I've got a feeling that no-one in Western countries is prepared for how devastating the Israeli military response to this is going to be.

Western countries are trying to find out whether their citizens are dead or being held hostage. We know about the German woman who was paraded naked for men to spit on. We know about the Americans, the British, the French.

We know there are Mexicans, Nepalis, Thai and Filipinos dead and captured.

The comparisons with 9/11 are apt not just because of the audacity and the numbers of deaths, but how many foreign nationals were killed.

R121 fails basic comprehension. Sorry comparisons butt hurt you, but step outside your bubble and it's a fair one. You cant make a bold statement comparing 9/11 to what just happened and then say any other comparison that does not fit your narrative is anti-Semitic. The statement about "world domination" is not my personal opinion, but it is an anti-Semitic opinion held by many. My point was that by creating a false comparison to 9/11, you just give those people the ammunition they need to to say see, Jews always make things up about being victimized. Because it's obvious what happened this week is not comparable to 9/11.

In contrast, over 2,000 people died this weekend of an earthquake, and no one is even talking about that.

Crude Oil Futures

85.73 USD +2.94 (3.55%)

I won't be surprised if it reaches $90 by close of market today

What's wild to me is that they're uploading the videos, e.g., videos of them taking elderly women hostage. Why doesn't Hamas leadership stop further videos being uploaded?

[quote] What's wild to me is that they're uploading the videos, e.g., videos of them taking elderly women hostage. Why doesn't Hamas leadership stop further videos being uploaded?

Because they want the world to see the terror they are inflicting on Israelis and anyone in Israel, including the indigenous Druze communities.

They’ve filmed rapes, beheadings, torture, mutilating corpses, setting people on fire, slitting the throats of babies. They want to world to see.

You’ve seen footage filmed by the Nazis of the extermination of Jews? Well it’s like that just on smart phones.

Do you understand now?

And to all the apologists for Hamas, this an article published by the Guardian on 13th September 2001. Seamus Milne is a wealthy privileged privately educated posh anglo saxon man who was appointed as Jeremy Corbyn’s director of communications.

The same people who are brushing off the Israel attacks justified the murder of thousands of Americans.

I had previously though Hamas leadership was more savvy about PR. Posting all this filth makes people sympathize with the Israelis.

And this is the terror people are turning up in rallies to support--the rapes, decapitations, kidnappings. The TV is full of so-called humanitarians eager to "contextualize" the war crimes. They're attacking Israel for its disproportionate response. What is the appropriate response to this bloodbath?

Who gets sympathy for killing 1,000 people and, yes, murder is different from a natural disaster.

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant just announced that Israel has ordered a "total siege" of the Gaza Strip - allowing no food, fuel or electricity to enter the Hamas-ruled territory.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gaza is flattened in the next few days.

The 2.1 million civilians who live in Gaza [bold]cannot leave[/bold] the Gaza strip.

[quote]Your CEO sounds like an idiot not only because he sent out that email, but also because his logic is childish and wrong. First of all, it's not just the numbers, 9/11 had two of the tallest skyscrapers in the largest American city obliterated killing thousand both in the building and on the ground. Has that happened in Tel Aviv? NOPE.

"You may have had more people slaughtered, but we had big buildings destroyed!"

Commit an act of terror, scream for pity when Israel bombs Gaza, lather, rinse, repeat.

R124 What's happening now in Israel is at least comparable to 9/11. It's not an exact replica, but both were terrorists acts perpetrated by Islamic zealots on civilian targets. There was more structural damage (psychologically at least) with the attack on the US. No telling what the structural damage will ultimately be in Israel, however something tells me that Gaza will ultimately suffer more there. Rapes, kidnapping and torture of men women and children were heavier with the attack on Israel. While earthquakes, hurricanes, etc cause massive loss of life and are terrible, they are in no way similar otherwise to brutal attacks of humans on other humans. Those are called natural disasters and are no one's fault unless you believe in God.

[quote] The 2.1 million civilians who live in Gaza cannot leave the Gaza strip.

Where do you want them to go? The Texas border for a government paid bus ride to NYC?

No Muslim state wants them. They brought ruin to any state that tried to welcome them.

[quote] Why doesn't Hamas leadership stop further videos being uploaded?

"Modern" Islam is a death cult. These atrocities guarantee them a golden ticket to Heaven.

Hamas doesn’t want a solution. Their existence and funding is entirely dependent on the continued oppression of the Palestinian population. They have zero interest in the type of PR that would result in meaningful positive change.

Is Silicone Valley located between a strippers ta-tas R97?

R47 it’s an understandable mistake, all of those ancient people were probably in dire need of a good moisturizer. If the Assyrian had their hands on a good lotion it would certainly explain their power.

Highly inappropriate for your CEO to send that out, R90. It sounds like something John Schnatter would do.

Or that MAGA meth pillow guy R138.

Agree R116. It does have one similarity to 9/11 though: it was either a massive intelligence failure, or a false flag of some sort.

R141, you have a lot of company in fantasizing about Israel being obliterated. What a horrible post.

Until ever homo is thrown off a roof and every woman is erased under a niqab, jihad is forever! Just as the prophet ordered.

Well isn't that how the apocalypse is supposed to start R141? They want this to happen.

Agreed R140. That's the only similarity. Massive intelligence failure from both Israel and the US while both countries are "distracted" with clown show politics for some years.

Not sure about "false flag". That's too [italic]conspiracy theory[/italic] for me sorry.

What does everybody think?

The ones he couldn’t sell, r18. ‘

Palestinians chanting "fuck the Jews" at a march of support in Sydney, Australia.

Palestinians did fuck the Jews, raped at gunpoint.

Sydney Opera House:

Oh wow. The water has been cut off too.

Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, said that Israel is imposing a “complete siege” on Gaza.

“There is no electricity, there is no food, there is no water, there is no fuel,” he said.

[quote] Massive intelligence failure from both Israel and the US while both countries are "distracted" with clown show politics for some years.

I don't think that excuse works unless illegally Biden retasked all the spy satellites and the CIA to spy on Joe's domestic critics. Their mission is to watch overseas regardless of American political spats.

[quote] The Biden administration is working to fulfill Israel’s request to urgently transfer weapons to Tel Aviv, according to a U.S. official and second person familiar with the talks, a day after Hamas militants launched an unprecedented wave of attacks on southern Israel in a conflict that threatens to erupt into a wider war.

Israeli officials have asked the U.S. to transfer specific weapons systems, said the people, who were granted anonymity to speak ahead of any announcement, and Washington is working to make that happen. They did not say what those weapons were, citing operational security.

The weapons transfers could be part of a new package of assistance for Israel, which Secretary of State Antony Blinken told CNN Sunday morning.

Between what was gifted to the Taliban or sent to Ukraine, do we have any spare weapons left?

Has Hamas said what they want? Aside from the general destruction of Israel, I mean.

if this war can bring down the housing prices and crash the real estate and stock market, i'm all for it!

[quote] if this war can bring down the housing prices and crash the real estate and stock market, i'm all for it!

aka the Biden Depression ? I hope you filled up your gas tank three days ago.

R148, that reminds me of when the mob of muslims shot flares at the Cologne Cathedral then attacked people at New Years. They do this shit everywhere.

R118, were you also against Obama wearing his tan suit? Fuck outta here.

For another reminder of what’s really going on here, and who dominates who, Israel has cut off all food, water and electricity to Gaza.

Did hamas cut off all food, water and electricity to Israel? Could it ever?

Israel has the Palestinian people in a death grip and it has for decades, and it uses that grip with extreme cruelty. THAT is the reason Hamas exists.

Now reported that multiple Indian citizens working as carers to the elderly were murdered, along with their Israeli patients.

Filmed, naturally.

[quote] Has Hamas said what they want?

Netflix, ad free plan.

IDF website giving war updates in real time

IDF Spokesperson Daniel Hagari: "We are in control of all towns and communities in the south. There could be more terrorists in the area we are continuing to clear it. we are in the midst of wide-scale aerial strikes, thousands of terrorist targets have been struck and hundreds of terrorists have been neutralized. we have called in 300,000 reservists over the past 48 hours.

Is Israel writing off the hostages?

Barbaric. Israel needs to hunt all of these Hamas assholes down.

r160 I saw they'd rescued some old lady and her carers a few hours ago. I'm assuming trying to get to them is more secret special forces intelligence agency work while Operation Retribution is ongoing. Has Hamas actually issued any demands over the hostages safety yet?

What would you have Israelis do? They don't have the luxury of shutting down, burying their dead and grieving because they would risk more attacks, more atrocities. Are they likely to reject Netanyahu and his policies under these circumstances? What would you have them do other than disappear and go back to where they came from, in the immortal words of Helen Thomas?

How many speakers at the pro-Palestinian rallies over the weekend denounced the violence and Hamas? I'd honestly like to know.

R160

They are reporting on TV that discussions, among some parties at some unstated level, are discussing a prisoner swap dealing with woman and children held by Hamas and Israeli.

Woman and children swap might work, I fear for the safety of the others. Urban fighting is the worst. Lots are going to die if this ends up as a house by house search and series of 100s of mini fire fights.

The hostages are Hamas one hope against Israeli artillery and Air Force.

And Hamas exactly like the VC in Feb 1968 may lose the fight and still achieve all their goals at the same time

Israel cutting off the water supply which was already bare minimum for Gaza. Israel controls all water infrastructure such as treatment plants. Ninety-five percent of water in Gaza is undrinkable.

In Gaza, some 90-95 per cent of the water supply is contaminated and unfit for human consumption. Israel does not allow water to be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza, and Gaza’s only fresh water resource, the Coastal Aquifer, is insufficient for the needs of the population and is being increasingly depleted by over-extraction and contaminated by sewage and seawater infiltration.

The resulting disparity in access to water between Israelis and Palestinians is truly staggering. Water consumption by Israelis is at least four times that of Palestinians living in the OPT. Palestinians consume on average 73 litres of water a day per person, which is well below the World Health Organization’s (WHO) recommended daily minimum of 100 litres per capita. In many herding communities in the West Bank, the water consumption for thousands of Palestinians is as low as 20 litres per person a day, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). By contrast, an average Israeli consumes approximately 300 litres of water a day.

R156 I'll answer that! They would if they could and a whole lot more. You don't need to be a fortune teller to know that. It would absolutely be rape, pillage and plunder to the absolute max.

R151 a prisoner exchange

What a fucking mess. Nobody comes out of this looking good.

I really wish that I had the luxury of discussing this intellectually. I could opine about the history of the Middle East, US intervention dating back to the Shah of Iran, and the differences between the Palestinians and Hamas. Unfortunately, I have friends in Israel who are missing. So, reading these comments is like watching a bunch of privileged, protected academics discuss a point of order. I'll try and let my cousins know that many of you feel they deserved to be abducted or killed.

Yes it is R168.

I am very sorry to hear this, r169. I hope they come back unharmed. I would say that I hope Israel sends Hamas back to the stone age, but they're already stone aged barbarians, worshipping a death cult religion.

Best of luck to them all, r169.

I work in Europe for a small Tel Aviv startup with a factory just east of the kibbutz. Two of our employees, husband and wife in their early 30s, were shot to death in front of their 10 month old twins, who were somehow spared. Another two are known to have been kidnapped. Others are still missing but may have escaped in Israel. All of our ex-military employees have been called up to the Gaza or Lebanon borders.

Sympathy for Palestinians had been increasing with college-students and others of that age. So, someone in Iran, I guess, decided Hamas should attack a rave, kill hundreds of unarmed concert goers, rape women next to the corpses of their friends, kidnap some concert goers, ambush people in the parking lot when they ran to their cars to escape the ambush, and then post videos.

Israeli soldiers are the hottest.

Agree with R171 completely. I am hope your friends are alive and manage to get out safely, R169.

Read somewhere this weekend that the Iranian government was publicly celebrating the attacks while Iranian people condemned the attacks on social media.

[quote] I'll try and let my cousins know that many of you feel they deserved to be abducted or killed.

You might include an addendum that those who so think are very progressive so they must know better than we Neanderthals.

I just can’t get worked up over this.

r177 There was a video of a bunch of Iranian fans at a football (soccer) game chanting "shove that Palestinian flag up your ass" when the government tried to hold a rally or something there. But I'd honestly put that down to more the regime being pretty unpopular at the moment especially amongst the young and this being a naked attempt at pan-Islamic unifying propaganda than a softening off your average Iranians view on Israel though.

[quote]I just can’t get worked up over this.

Don't worry hun, the rest of the world just shrugs at all the US school shootings.

Genuinely hope none of these are your people r169

One account of a disabled elderly woman who was unable to move being set on fire. Naturally Hamas filmed this for the world to see.

NBC News’ Richard Engel, Raf Sanchez, - 19m ago / 4:20 PM CEST European Commission suspends aid to Palestinians Marlene Lenthang

The European Commission will halt all aid to Palestinians in the wake of the Israel-Hamas conflict, Oliver Varhelyi, the European Commissioner for Neighborhood and Enlargement, said on the platform X today.

He said all payments will be "immediately suspended," all projects are placed under review, and new budget proposals will be postponed until further notice.

Varhelyi said the European Commission — the European Union's executive arm — is the biggest donor to Palestinians and is putting its full development portfolio, worth 691 million euros, under review.

“The foundations for peace, tolerance and co-existence must now be addressed," he tweeted. "Incitement to hatred, violence and glorification of terror have poisoned the minds of too many. We need action and we need it now.”

The E.U. had been committed to supporting an independent and sovereign Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution.

MSNBC of course

"The scale of Israeli war crimes in Gaza is likely to exceed anything we have seen before.”

Humans are a failed species.

Medhi Hasan is an islamist. He’s anti gay, anti abortion, has attacked women’s liberation yet is somehow considered a liberal in the US. He doesn’t think Israel has a right to exist.

About 10 years ago be appeared on the UK politics show Question Times and launch a prescripted rant about the Daily Mail, only for the Daily Mail to publish a letter Hasan had written their editor asking if he could write for them because he shared many of their values.

i’m just glad he’s not in the UK any more.

R186 Humans are not a failed species. Pretty much every time there's been atrocious governments or egregious behaviors by them, the rest of humanity has progressed and rid themselves of them. If you look through history that is actually what you see. Defeating Hitler, slavery, colonialism, child labor, gay rights, and the list goes on and on. Things, by far, have never been better for the human species. If you can't or won't help or want to give in to defeatism then just get out of the way.

R188

Every former world power and once great civilization , that no longer exists , who was at the very top of their game thought exactly like you.

[QUOTE]Now reported that multiple Indian citizens working as carers to the elderly were murdered, along with their Israeli patients.

This explains why there were so many tweets on Saturday from Indian nationals saying "We stand with Israel."

No they didn't. Not at all.

[quote] If you can't or won't help or want to give in to defeatism then just get out of the way.

Oh, r188, I am way out of the way.

I live on my tribal ancestral land, popularly known as an Indian Reservation.

Noga Tarnopolsky נגה טרנופולסקי نوغا ترنوبولسكي💙 @NTarnopolsky. Oct 7

💥The Israeli army warned Netanyahu for months that his push for government overhaul put Israel at great risk of a multi-front attack. He dismissed their warnings by accusing the military of "joining the left-wing protesters" against him. His ministers said army could go to hell.

US senate should convene under an emergency session to Mass nominate and confirm US military promotions. Go through every single nomination and make Tuberville refuse them all on nationwide tv/internet

^Gee, trying to marginalize the Army and its top brass? I could swear we've seen this before, but I'm drawing a blank here. Help me out, fellas. 😒

You can't tell Israelis how to describe this massacre. If they want to call it their 9/11, so be it. On 9/12, it was clean up and funerals. In Israel, it's all that and an immediate war involving the whole country. Plus they have many hostages to worry about. Unfortunately, I think they're writing the hostages off at this point.

Poor Nick Robertson on CNN has been wearing the same black shirt for 3 days now (some of the time with a bulletproof vest).

Really all these reporters & their crews are very brave to go right into active war zones. The footage on TV is so dramatic & appalling.

[quote] You can't tell Israelis how to describe this massacre. If they want to call it their 9/11, so be it.

R196, You also can't tell someone the moon is made of cheese if they so choose to say it is. But there is such a thing as history and facts.

*You also can't tell someone the moon is not made of cheese

The hostages are dead. They will keep some of the younger, more attractive women and girls around as sex slaves and punching bags, then kill them too.

Have they shown photos of the hostages?

R200 likes to speculate. The hostages are bargaining chips.

Hamas built a mock Israeli town in Gaza and practiced military maneuvers, even videotaping its performances so that it could review them. Over an extended period of time, Hamas also fed information to Israeli intelligence telling the Israelis that Hamas was weary of fighting.

Hamas built a mock Israeli town but they can't build solar panels hospitals or water filtration stations?

A Scottish citizen has been confirmed murdered.

The Scottish Green Party, currently in government with the nationalist, were posting support for "the resistance" over the weekend without any criticism of the slaughter of Israelis.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

A lot of pacifists die in battles and wars.

[quote]One account of a disabled elderly woman who was unable to move being set on fire. Naturally Hamas filmed this for the world to see.

An expert on the region said yesterday that the barbarity of Hamas' actions will help recruit young men to its ranks throughout the Muslim world.

Imagine the mindset of people who see an old woman being set fire and thinking, "That's what I want to do!"

Yes R208 - there were countless men who travelled to Syria and Iraq from European countries to join ISIS because the saw the videos of beheadings, the torture, the capture of women, the mass rape.

The number of left wing men progressive men defending Hamas DESPITE the rape, they're porn sick incels who would love the chance to abuse a violate a "zionist bitch" and rough her up.

[quote] Hamas built a mock Israeli town but they can't build solar panels hospitals or water filtration stations?

As if those are comparable in the slightest.

[quote] ]Imagine the mindset of people who see an old woman being set fire and thinking, "That's what I want to do!"

Murdering Jews has always been Islam's primary sport.

The Hadith: 'You will fight against the Jews and you will gain victory over them. The stones will saying: 'Oh slave of Allah! there is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him'

Apr 5, 2013 — In an interview last month, Talaat Mohamed Afifi Salem said Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews.

Koran [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

[5.41] O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

[5.42] (They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

etc etc etc

I spoke to a friend in Israel.

Israel believes it is fighting for its survival against terrorism and will use every means at its disposal. My friend went through some of Hamas 's atrocities such as forcing people to go to their neighbors, tell them it was safe to come out and then killing all of them. Our media has just scratched the surface. The actual stories and videos are too much to bear.

This is the largest killing of Jews in one day since the Holocaust.

According to my friend, Israel believes that Hezbollah will get involved and that long-range missiles will be aimed at Tel Aviv. The speaker said the country was in shock about the intelligence failure and demoralized by the videos circulated by Hamas but they are firmly united around the war effort and braced for a pro-Palestinian campaign about Israeli retaliation.

I have no confidence that Israel will survive this but a state run by Hamas and Hezbollah is too horrible to contemplate.

Just like the A-rab told the Jew: "You don't like me, I don't like you."

[quote] I have no confidence that Israel will survive this but a state run by Hamas and Hezbollah is too horrible to contemplate.

That won't be allowed to happen, R212. And of course Israel will survive this.

Egypt told Netanyahu a month ago and he didn't do shit.

They think this is being orchestrated by Iran, and if you think it's a foregone conclusion that Israel will survive this, you do not share their state of mind. They think the worst attacks are yet to come.

[quote]Egypt told Netanyahu a month ago and he didn't do shit.

That story has been rejected by every serious journalist, along with the story from Russian "media" that Hamas used weapons left behind by US troops in Afghanistan or given to Ukraine.

With all the beheadings, rapes, and enslaving, they are re-enacting the life of their prophet.

What Haaretz IS blaming Netanyahoo for is this:

One after another, reporters and columnists blistered Netanyahu’s coalition, pointing out that the far-right government continued to push the “settlement” campaign in the West Bank and stood by as the “settlers” carried out pogroms against Palestinians. Then, having provoked increased Palestinian resistance, Netanyahu had to move army units to the occupied territory, leaving the southern border with Gaza relatively unprotected.

Way to make friends Israel. They should just have done what they do in Mexico give the rabble and gangsters credit cards.. They then buy cars and other crap. Then just charge them high interest with they run around and try to earn enough to pay. Wallah, conquered people. Just like the "civilized" world.

[quote] I have no confidence that Israel will survive this

Short of a dozen Iranian nukes aimed to blanket the country Israel will be fine. And if Israel actually would appear to be in imminent danger of falling, they'll not fall alone.

----------------

Israeli death toll now exceeds 1200

--------------

Party of guerillas slipping in from Lebanon intercepted and killed

Hamas saying they will publicly execute a hostage every time Gaza is hit in an air strike.

Lovely people.

Yes we can’t have collective punishment. I mean it would be like if Hamas turned off all the water, food and electricity to Israel.

Clarissa Ward is on the frontline. Was reporting from a ditch, lying on her side, this morning

I wish posters would provide sources for all these atrocities.

It’s called beer R36

R225, I’d strongly prefer it if posters didn’t do that.

R227 Why? How do we know it's true otherwise? Because anonymous posters on DL never make stuff up?

I thought Hamas was a group of trans POC drag queens?!

Twitter is currently hip-deep in fake atrocity videos. Elon is hellbent on using this tragedy to push disinformation onto his neonazi platform as aggressively as possible.

Providing sources runs so counter to the right of internet users to make up crazy shit that never happened and post that.

On a related note, it's crises like these where old-school traditional journalism becomes quite important.

a neonazi pushing fake videos to help Israel's cause. LOL I bet you think Trump was on one of those hang gliders .

R228, yes, it’s an invitation to post deep-fake videos. This is just the start of a war; we’re going to see and hear plenty.

Link for R215

[quote] An Egyptian intelligence official said Egypt, which often serves as a mediator between Israel and Hamas, had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about “something big,” without elaborating.

[quote] He said Israeli officials were focused on the West Bank and played down the threat from Gaza. Netanyahu’s government is made up of supporters of Jewish West Bank settlers who have demanded a security crackdown in the face of a rising tide of violence there over the last 18 months.

[quote] “We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss the content of sensitive intelligence discussions with the media

I’ve never had a problem with Hummus.

R224 she's psycho - not a hint of activity in her eyes during the whole ordeal, but she did flinch during shocks - but zero fear or stress in the eyes. Who knows what atrocities she is capable of

R200 I doubt that, unless IDF has already informed Hamas that there will be no exchanges.

[quote] it was either a massive intelligence failure, or a false flag of some sort.

R140 false flag how? The Israelis abducted themselves, and killed their children?

r239 Those loons don't even understand the meaning of the term "false flag" that they love so much. They think Israel secretly letting it happen to excuse a full-out war (an insane proposition in its own right) is the same as a false flag, which would actually involve staging the whole thing on Israel's part, just like you described.

r224 She was reporting from Jerusalem, not Gaza, calm down.

Israel says they will take out Assad and flatten Damascus if Hezbollah gets involved. Americans also likely to intervene in that case. I think it's safe to say Hezbollah is out of the picture for the time being. Hamas is all on its own.

R149 Hard to believe any country would cut off supplies to an enemy State that just launched a major attack on it's civilian population. Given the situation, most countries would offer steep discounts and extend credit.

[quote] Hamas is all on its own.

It already got its big burst of help from Iran.

The Palestinian cause has been set back decades. Kidnapping and slaughtering innocents is beyond the pale.

If Israel was going down, they would take the rest of the Middle East with them and they certainly have the ability to do so. I think the Jews that can be led to slaughter like sheep all died in the holocaust. Israel would go down fighting until its last breath. I seriously doubt it will come to that, but just saying...

[quote] Kidnapping and slaughtering innocents is beyond the pale.

It is. And yet, the IRA and many other terrorist groups have done exactly that forever.

r244 I meant in military terms, reinforcements and so on.

r246 Nothing of that sort is going to happen anytime soon because the US would put a stop to it if Israel's luck ever turned and they started losing badly on the battlefield.

Israel has clearly stated for many years that they would "bring down the temple" before any kind of surrender.

Bibi's speech about 15 minutes from now, tanks about to start rolling into Gaza. Hearing conflicting reports about Hamas asking for a truce all of a sudden.

Allegedly Gaza shutdown, no entry/exit, electricity off

RE R251

Reuters 1.07pm

Hamas says four Israelis held in Gaza killed in Israeli strikes since Sunday Hamas said on Monday that four Israeli captives and their Hamas captors had been killed in Israeli strikes on the Palestinian enclave since Sunday.

"The bombardment overnight and today on the Gaza Strip led to the killing of four of the enemy's captives and their captors," said Abu Ubaida, spokesman of the Hamas armed wing.

r254 It's for the best, at least they weren't beheaded, with the video then posted online to haunt their relatives. Those captives are all lost, unfortunately.

Netanyahu speaking now

Can someone translate?

[quote]I think the Jews that can be led to slaughter like sheep all died in the holocaust

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?

Led to slaughter like sheep? You nasty uneducated racist people of shit.

They watched what happened to people who fought and resisted. How do 1000 unarmed people take on 50 men with guns?

Have you no knowledge of what happened in Europe?

Thank whatever deity there is that Republicans are not in charge of the WH and Senate right now because Cruz, Pence, Scott, Pompeo, Hawley and the other Dominionists would be pushing Israel to destroy the Al Aqsa mosque so the Antichrist can move in and trigger Jesus coming back.

This is one reason Republicans should never, EVER be in control. They are secret Domionists, meaning they believe we are called to start a holy war in Israel and bring about Armegeddon.

Keep them in mind when you watch the right wing during this. They do NOT "love" Israel, nor do they love Jews. They want to use them to trigger the end times. They are never to be trusted. They do not want peace.

Israeli death toll approaches 1500.

---------------------

The @Portland_State Students United for Palestinian Equal Rights, an extremist official student group on campus, released a statement expressing support for the Hamas terrorist attacks that killed hundreds of Israeli civilians. An unknown number of families including children & the elderly were kidnapped. They're soliciting cash donations for the "resistance" in Gaza.

Bibi said Hamas will be wiped out, end of story.

Also mentioned stabilising the Lebanon border, yikes.

R255 Sadly, I believe you are correct. Israel has the right to make certain this never happens again. Tunnels must be found and destroyed on a regular basis. A country has the responsibility to protect its own citizens first and foremost.

I think the immediate future is going to see a lot less Palestinian sympathy. Europe now has a front row seat in dealing with its own Muslim migrants so their sympathies were already beginning to slip.

R259 has been broken. bad.

BTW I know I sound crazy with the dominionism stuff, but they're such liars. In public they pretend they just want a better world, but when you go to a dominionist church they push the war stuff. It's awful to grow up in and I still find them terrifying.

cuckoo

[quote] Israeli death toll approaches 1500.

No. That's combined death toll. 590 are Palestinians.

Tubby will look even worse with his blockade right now. Israel at war and he refuses to let the US military be at full readiness. It's either abortion or Israel, bitch. Decide, but you can't have both.

I love how pro military industrial complex Datalounge has become. You think we need more bloated upper ranks?

Is there any way Biden and/or the Pentagon can end run confirmations around the Senate? Say, emergency appointments?

Luxembourg, Spain, Ireland, and Denmark stop EU resolution to halt Palestine funding.

r269 Nope. And we wouldn't want that anyway, Congress needs to have a firm grasp on the military, for better or worse. Imagine Trump bypassing it and stacking it with MAGA generals who would then declare support for him on J6?

Hitler watching CNN in hell right now:

r270 Luxembourg's liberal homosexual PM lost the election yesterday to the center right. He's been at it for a long time anyway, it was time for a change. Will miss his cute husband, though.

Has Sean Penn made this all about him yet?

[quote] BTW I know I sound crazy with the dominionism stuff

The comparison to 9/11 doesn’t sit well with many Americans.

Actually, Pearl Harbor would have been a more appropriate comparison.

And guess what people said 9/11 was like? Hint: it rhymes with Rural Barber.

r264 You don't sound crazy, you're bang on, although it's more to do with supersessionism and Christian Zionism than dominionism, which is a separate ominous thing that's currently being implemented through the Supreme Court.

My fave podcast re-released the episode today that discusses this phenomenon among the American Evangelicals, if you're interested.

r276 It may sit right with you or not, the fact of the matter is that, proportionally speaking, this attack would be the equivalent of terrorists killing 34.000 American citizens in a single day. Which is more than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined.

R279 they haven't killed 34,000 Israelis. WTF are you on about?

[quote] the equivalent of terrorists killing 34.000 American citizens in a single day. Which is more than Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined.

Roughly six simultaneous Pearl Harbors added to six simultaneous 9/11s.

I’m sure someone in this thread, no doubt off-his-meds Anscher, has said, “ISRAEL OFFERED PALESTINE AUTONOMY AT CAMP DAVID AND ARAFAT SAID NO!!!”

Here’s what Israel actually offered.

Three blobs, each separated by Israeli territory. The blobs are reddish orange. Notice now they’re separated from each other by Israeli territory?

It gets much better. Fortified Israeli military highways (blue lines) run through each one of them in multiple places and directions. Under total Israeli control, further cutting the blobs into many little pieces.

Oh and the little blue triangles? Israeli settlements, also under Israeli control. The Palestinians had to recognize those for the plan to be accepted.

Notice also that the whole eastern border is Israeli? No contact with the outside world unless Israel says so.

So what they were really offering were lots of little bantustans, like in apartheid South Africa.

That was the ridiculous Israeli offer of “independence.”

Don’t be fooled. Israel has never offered Palestine independence.

Terrorist sympathizers on the move on 41st street.

So 'proportionally speaking' Israel has killed .029% of Gazans and counting, Hamas killed .01%.if Israelis.

Gazans win.

Isn't cutting electricity off to Gaza a war crime?

[quote]I’m sure someone in this thread, no doubt off-his-meds Anscher, has said, “ISRAEL OFFERED PALESTINE AUTONOMY AT CAMP DAVID AND ARAFAT SAID NO!!!”

Nope. Perhaps you should check [italic]your[/italic] pill minder.

R282 I mentioned it on the first thread to crickets. Facts are so BORING,

At the time this shit deal was offered the Palestinians were blamed for not wanting piece. Like the bully who steals your sandwich, spits on a piece and hands it back, some deal.

*peace* freudian slip.

When did the Palestinians have a sandwich? Seriously, they have never had a state of their own. Guess why?

R289 Read a book.

[quote] Isn't cutting electricity off to Gaza a war crime?

Everything Israel does vis a vie the Palestinians is war crime or violates international law.

Just heard on npr that there will be 'no food, water or electricity' delivered to Gaza 😕

Well that's going to go over well with people who are already desperate and feel they have nothing to lose. Anyone care to offer any real solutions instead of bombing people into oblivion in the name of 'rEliGeOn '😭and god?

[quote]Anyone care to offer any real solutions instead of bombing people into oblivion in the name of 'rEliGeOn '😭and god?

I propose Israel ask nicely for the release of the hostages and the headless, desecrated corpses Hamas is stacking up. That should work.

This morning in London 2 Jewish businesses in Golders Green were attacked and FREE PALESTINE was painted on a bridge nearby.

Sadiq Khan did his "hate crime will not be tolerated" and Labour politicians at their party conference did their "hate crime will not be tolerated".

There was a meeting held by Jews in London which was entirely peaceful until Palestine supporters got involved - there's a horrible video of Jews being surrounded by police (for their safety) on a train platform while people scream at them.

The Palestine supporters are now having a massive party on Kensington High Street and the Met Police have issued a statement advising them not to climb onto buildings for their own safety.

CNN: Number of Americans killed by Hamas now stands at 11.

[quote] Isn't cutting electricity off to Gaza a war crime?

Bill Clinton and Tony Blair hope not

Will the Haredi - who refuse to do military service and whose men do not work - help Hamas?

Haredi don’t believe Israel should exist. Maybe they want to help Hamas destroy Israel? I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw a Torah at them.

Haredi do nothing for Israel. They were spitting on tourists just last week. They should be given the boot unless they shave their payes and join the military on the front lines.

Everyone supporting Palestinian terrorism against Israel should have their names published and their current and future employers be made aware of it.

Who else do you want on your list, R298? And who do you want to be its facilitator? The government? How many more lists should they make? And how long before your name ends up on one of them?

R298 supports doxxing. Oh joy. A page from Trump's playbook. Even hateful speech is protected by the First Amendment and sending a squad of goons to harass you on social media or in person is a slippery slope to the same being done to you. Not a good thing to wish.

R283, what did you see?

I get the sarcasm, r293, but when are people going to realize that we are all humans and you cannot obliterate an entire race -on the creator can do that. If some god in to sky tells you that you are better or more virtuous based in some religion, then you need to reevaluate what you believe in. I'm a 'live and let live ' person and nothing can convince me that another human being- who has a finate time/ expiration date like we all do-is somehow superior to me . That's at the heart of what white 'supremacy' is-Hitler thought he was superior to Jews, but he's been dead /gone for 80 years. Putin will expire as well and ultimately answer for evils. See what I mean? No one of us is getting out of this alive so why waste time hating/bombing/killing? This the only life/planet we know and we've show ourselves completely unworthy of its gifts because we let stupid ideologies get in the way.

Haredi don't believe Israel should exist? Why live there then?

I agree with your philosophy, R301, but we live in a broken world. I don't think turn the other cheek works when you are targeted by organizations (like Hamas and Hezbollah) and countries (like Iran) whose stated goal is to wipe your country off the face of the Earth.

Guys, I just think we need to pray for what to do next.

Certainly Allah and God can help us in our time of need?

R302, most of the Haredi are not opposed to Israel. They live in their own world wherever they are.

[quote]Wallah, conquered people. Just like the "civilized" world.

“Wallah”?!? Is that like Walla Walla, Washington?

It's kind of like vis a vie...

R258 Sorry you took my post the way that you did. I'm fully aware of what happened in Europe. My father's family are Hungarian Jews from what is now Košice, Slovakia (formally part of the Hungarian Empire) and I am a Jew. His family met their fate in Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camps. According to my father, and camp survivors I have known growing up (one that just died 2 or 3 years ago) the Jews were more docile in those days. Granted there might not have been much they could have done, and there were some uprisings, but today's Jews have learned from the past. Of course, hind sight is 20/20 and some might have believed they were going to a better place and some might have thought they were getting showers. Fortunately for me, my first trip to Auschwitz-Birkenau was in 2015.

War and hatred are inevitable because humans will always exploit those who are weaker than they are. Forever and ever. We’re just dumb monkeys fighting over bananas and occasionally humping each other.

The more details I hear about the terrorist actions, the sicker I feel.

Wait a minute. Alf eats Jewish Cats? 🙀

The Republicans like McCarthy and other MAGAts are already trying to goad the American people into pushing for an attack on Iran. The last time we helped Israel like this in the 70's, we had an oil embargo from countries like Saudi Arabia which sent our gas prices and economy in a tailspin. Then they can blame Biden. This is their win at all costs plan. "Biden's got us into a war and gas prices are $10 a gallon! We need to drill baby drill"

[quote] The more details I hear about the terrorist actions, the sicker I feel.

Read about what Israel has done and is doing, to defenseless Palestinians since 1967 and you'll feel......sick and angry.

This Twitter feed captures some of the videos and images of the torture and slaughter of Israelis by Palestinians. There’s even a video of Palestinians machine gunning a dog.

Gruesome.

The Squad

R314 I'll pass, I try to avoid seeing the evils of war.

Joy Reid's show tonight is Palestinian propaganda.

r315 I stand with my baby's father Ritchie Torres 😍

[quote]The Republicans like McCarthy and other MAGAts are already trying to goad the American people into pushing for an attack on Iran.

Like clockwork, Lindsey was trolling for war on Fox News today:

“For every Israeli or American hostage executed by Hamas, we should take down an Iranian oil refinery. The only way you’re going to keep this war from escalating is to hold Iran accountable.

"How much more death and destruction do we have to take from the Iranian regime?

"It is now time to take the war to the Ayatollah’s backyard.”

[quote] The only way you’re going to keep this war from escalating is to hold Iran accountable.

so, the only way to keep this war from escalating is to escalate it. Got it, Lindsay, thanks for the advice everybody knew you would be giving.

Not a member of Twitter or X R314. Cant view the video. You point is lost on most of us who left that trashy site.

[quote] Kidnapping and slaughtering innocents is beyond the pale.

Yes it is.

[quote] From 2008 till September 2023, 6,407 Palestinians were recorded to have been killed, more than half through missile attacks. During the same period, the UN recorded the death of 308 Israelis in conflict situations.

FWIW I believe there is a peaceful way through this, humans want security and safety and dignity for their lives, and we do all have commonalities that can be mutually respected. The war crimes happening on both sides are tragic and inexcusable, it must be so scary for the civilians.

Few notes on the thread….supposed homophobia is not an excuse for ethnic cleansing, the “proportionally” thing in respect to populations is so fucking braindead, Israel as a state, outside of Tel Aviv, is not some LGBT paradise, or paradise for women, and comparing this to 9/11 or any other US tragedy just does not work.

Oh forgot my link sorry.

^^Your point is lost on most of us who don't click on sketchy propaganda sites

Here ya go R324

[quote] That means that, since January 2005, only four percent of those killed have been Israeli, and 96 percent Palestinian. Since January 2005, in other words, the conflict has killed 23 Palestinians for every one Israeli it claims.

R322, there isn’t any context for those deaths. At least 8 were caused in 2021 by Hamas itself when they misfired missiles and they hit their own civilians. Perhaps you could give an example of when Palestinians have been willing to make peace with Israel. You know, the way Egypt has for over 40 years.

But the boldest choice for Israel would be for Israel to maintain this siege without invading and just let Gaza consider what their support for Hamas has cost them. 2005 would have been an excellent opportunity to build their country when Israel withdrew, but they chose to elect Hamas and send missiles to Israel.

Shut the fuck up about it.

This ain’t a pissing contest!!

It is kind of r327. Two sides to every story.

R326 well subtract the 8 from the 6407 then. See how much that changes things. There are further stats on the breakdown of the people killed on either side and it seems to be (on a short look) that the proportion of civilians killed on each side is a similar percentage.

[quote] Perhaps you could give an example of when Palestinians have been willing to make peace with Israel.

Why should I? Also Israel is the dominant force so Palestine isn’t the side that has the opportunity to this?

[quote] But the boldest choice for Israel would be for Israel to maintain this siege without invading

What you’re describing is a war crime.

“What you’re describing is a war crime.”

Too late to worry about that.

Yea R330 that’s also a war crime what’s your point? That because Hamas committed one then it gives Israel to commit one? That’s a dangerous way of thinking.

“ That’s a dangerous way of thinking.”

Slaughter people today. Beg for mercy tomorrow.

Math doesn’t work.

It is not a war crime. It would be a war crime to poison the water or if military forces were not using Gaza as their haven.

Seriously, how do you expect Israel to respond to violence? Turn the other cheek, right?

[quote] That because Hamas committed one then it gives Israel to commit one?

More like it makes it inevitable. There are going to be pretty much no rules that anybody gives a fuck about for the next few weeks, or months. That is a fact, and any and all hand wringing will simply be ignored. Israel will be trying to kill every Hamas leader and member, and destroying every Hamas haven and military facility, and there won't be much worry about anybody getting in the way of that.

That is the sad fact for now.

Ritchie Torres says aid for Israel should always been unconditional. It practically is, but why? Why is it unconditional?

[quote]It practically is, but why? Why is it unconditional?

Beats us.

From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Israel

Barack Obama on Twitter:

“All Americans should be horrified and outraged by the brazen terrorist attacks on Israel and the slaughter of innocent civilians. We grieve for those who died, pray for the safe return of those who’ve been held hostage, and stand squarely alongside our ally, Israel, as it dismantles Hamas. As we support Israel’s right to defend itself against terror, we must keep striving for a just and lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike.”

I don't know why anyone talks about peace anymore or bothers pretending anyone is "striving" for peace. It's never gonna happen and it's squarely because of religion. There will never be a peace. It will be just this. It always has been and always will be.

What did Hamas think would happen? They know they can’t overpower Israel and Israel is certain to respond brutally to their attack. I don’t get it. I feel sorry for the innocents o both sides. The people in Gaza don’t all support Hamas or terrorism (and they haven’t had an election in many years).

*yawn* business as usual... Unfortunately overshadowing a real tragedy.

It’s a terrible situation for the Palestinians who just want to live in peace in dignity whether they be Muslim, Christian or atheist. They are as much the victims of Hamas as anyone else.

[quote] It is not a war crime.

It is babe. This isn’t something you can just say.

[quote] Under the provisions of the International Humanitarian Law, related to international armed conflicts[v] and non-international armed conflicts, it is prohibited “to attack, destroy, remove, or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as foodstuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works“. The Rome Statute[vi] of the International Criminal Court defines “intentionally starving civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of the materials indispensable to their survival” a war crime.

[quote] More like it makes it inevitable

Doesn’t make it right or acceptable.

Hamas will lose, they got to know that, but I guess in their mind if they are going die under the oppression of Israel, they want to take down the Pakistanis and Israel with them. As much as they can at least. So their biggest spurt at this was the first surprise attack. Everything from now on will be them hiding, and putting up a weak defense with the world on their ass. It's all down hill for them now.

Madonna:

Where in the world are the Israeli settlers coming from? I know that all Jewish people can and do move to Israel, but which country do most of them come from?

They come from the same country. The dirty little secret they never talk about is the Israeli government give settlers financial incentives to build there. Free money makes it cheaper to live there than in the city at the same time it's a slow push of expanding their territory without officially doing so. THAT is why the Palestinian are so pissed at them. THAT is why there is constant fighting at their boarder. Israel keeps poking the bear until it lashes out then claims victim.

R308 I am not Jewish but I and my family have some Jewish friends. My father's friends (and ex-colleagues from work) live in Israel. I first thought you forgot a "not" in your post. Basically, ...

[quote] ...today's Jews have learned from the past.

What you said. They will never, ever be docile. They won't be led to the slaughter by anyone. The Hamas haven't even begun to imagine the pushback this time.

[quote] Perhaps you could give an example of when Palestinians have been willing to make peace with Israel. You know, the way Egypt has for over 40 years.

So glad you brought that up.

When the UN passed Resolution 242 in 1968 after the Arab-Israeli war in 1967 it stipulated that territory acquired in war must be returned. Furthermore, in exchange for returning the territory Israel conquered--Egypt's Sinai, Lebanon's Golan heights, and the territories of Palestine--Israel would be recognized by them as a legitimate State.

The UN realized Egypt was the only real power so their agreement was key.

Egypt agreed to the terms.

When this was presented to Israel it was rejected. They would not return the occupied territories.

The following years Egypt made it clear to Israel that it was giving Egypt no options but for war. Egypt had no choice. Israel was warned.

Yet in 1973 when Egypt attacked Israel, Israel was shocked! Just as now with Hamas, Israel was surprised, SHOCKED that stupid Arabs managed such a blow.

The reason for their 'surprise' is because Israel has always believed the Arabs are inferior, incompetent, sheepish people that they can bully and oppress and they won't fight back.

It's not a military issue, it's a political one. Israel's existence is predicated on the inferiority of the surrounding Arab population. It's racist and inhumane.

So glad you mentioned that, r349. Read up on the Camp David Accords to find out the rest of the story. Hint: Egyptians didn’t set the elderly on fire to get the Israelis to give their land back.

Which country though, R347? Russia, the US, Ukraine, Israel?

[quote] set the elderly on fire

pics please

R344, it’s probably more complex than that. Hamas spent months, possibly years, planning this attack. They may have given a thought or two to what happens next. They’ve seen other sieges, other invasions, other occupations. I assume that they are waiting for a ground invasion. That means that the Israeli army will have to walk into Gaza, and fight in an urban setting, possibly for time, against a guerrilla force that may be well-armed. I don’t see how that will be a short operation. How many years and billions of dollars has the U.S. wasted fighting apparently insignificant opponents?

[quote] Unfortunately, I have friends in Israel who are missing.

R169 Oh my god, how absolutely awful! May they, against all odds, return unharmed.

And R349 Every Muslim immigrant I know learned in school that the Jews are evil. (Some discard this belief living in my country but they all got indoctrinated.) Palestinians want the eradication of the state Israel. And you have the guts to call Israelis racist? It's not about skin color, not about "race" but about a bronze-age cult whose values we have seen clearly in the inspiring videos they uploaded where they spit on women, kill and torture children and the elderly and laugh about everyone who isn't part of their deluded sect. What would you do if you lived in Israel? Maybe you would have attended the peace festival too where over 200 visitors were senselessly murdered.

The settlements are all Jews from Israel. What part of "The Israel government is giving it's people financial incentives to build on land just over their official boarder?" didn't you get?

It would be like the US government giving low income American a monthly check 800 dollars if they build houses in Mexico just over the the boarder where a physical wall is not built. Eventually, the U.S. would try to claim it's really their land with so many Americans living on it. That's the game Israel is playing. Then if the drug cartel or other Mexican crime come in and rape the woman and slaughter the men, American would be posting videos of it and calming it's game on and it has the right to defend itself. Then America would proceed to carpet bomb the entire country of Mexico as the wold cheers.

R354 don’t you see any irony in having a peace festival on illegally occupied land?

I also don’t think it’s helpful to paint all Muslim people as having the same views of those in Hamas. And all religions are cults duh. Including Judaism, and Islam, and Christianity. And all with violent histories.

[quote] Every Muslim immigrant I know learned in school that the Jews are evil.

Girl you just made that up 😂😂😂

Just a reminder - it's border. Not boarder.

International border.

The border wall of the US.

Board of wood.

Boarding school.

R356, “girl,” step back. You have now justified shooting teenagers in support of peace because they happened to be in the wrong zip code,

Then, after suggesting how all Israelis see Arabs, you insist his doing the reverse is “not helpful.”

Maybe you should consider how “helpful” it is to change the subject from Hamas’ atrocities to Palestinian independence before the bodies are even cold.

I’ve been going back and forth with you in a way that seems more pro-Israel than I am. But what you are doing is unbelievably distasteful. It’s like shrugging off the murder of someone’s spouse because of income inequality that makes the poor have no choice but to resort to murder. Just stop.

r341 I take it that's put a damper on the Taliban's plan to march through Iran, Iraq and Jordan to attack Israel form the East? Which is reportedly what their foreign office has spent the last few days requesting rather than trying to get aid.

[quote]Hamas will lose, they got to know that, but I guess in their mind if they are going die under the oppression of Israel, they want to take down the Pakistanis and Israel with them.

“PAKISTANIS”?!? WTF? Is this where all the Gaza immigrants are coming from?

R358 oh baby I think you’re confused, I’m not 349.

[quote] You have now justified shooting teenagers in support of peace because they happened to be in the wrong zip code,

And no, I haven’t. I think that was a dreadful attack.

It’s also kinda dumb to expect a discussion on Hamas attacks not to include any talk of the establishment of a legitimately regogniazed Palestinian state. Sorry!

Hamas is not a conventional army. How does sending aircraft carriers to combat them make sense? Political grand standing.

It's not just that it's occupied land, this freedom festival was 3 miles from the border of more than 2 million people crammed in an area 25 miles long and 5 miles wide--a cage.

Israel cares more about its soldiers than its civilians. The IDF should have told those young people to chose another place.

Notice how the IDF is delaying sending in ground forces which would cause less civilian deaths than indiscriminate bombing? It's because their ground forces have not had a lot of success and Israel hates a dead soldier more than a dead civilian.

I read that too and thought that the OP probably meant Palestinians R360.

I mean the poster of that comment R360.

[quote] I take it that's put a damper on the Taliban's plan to march through Iran, Iraq and Jordan to attack Israel form the East?

That "plan" sounds more like a fever dream.

R363 Israel has called in 300,000 reservists.

[quote]don’t you see any irony in having a peace festival on illegally occupied land?

Reim has been party of Israel since 1949. Do you consider the entire state of Israel to be illegally occupied?

Isn’t Turkey occupied?

R368 my mistake 🫢 I guess just ‘occupied’ then rather than ‘illegally occupied’.

[quote]Girl you just made that up

R356 I wish. I know Muslim children from Lebanon and from Syria. I help refugee children with their homework.

[quote] I help refugee children with their homework.

😂😂😂

I look forward to Season 4 of The Morning Show when Bradley and Laura attend the SuperNova Music Festival, Laura (Julianna Margulies) is raped and murdered and Bradley (Reese Witherspoon ) captures it all on her phone before escaping. Justice for Archie Panjabi!

[quote]It’s also kinda dumb to expect a discussion on Hamas attacks not to include any talk of the establishment of a legitimately regogniazed Palestinian state.

It's entirely proper to discuss the inhuman acts of terrorists without discussing the particulars of their manifesto.

You know all the sites being blown up in Gaza? I want to overlay that with a map that shows what those buildings are. Are they apartments? They look like apartment buildings.

Do they give warning to vacate the area? How the frick are they going to rescue the hostages if they blow up the hostages?

Sorry R374 you’re not the moderator. You clearly want a discussion to be isolated from any historical, social or political context because it’s more sympathetic to Israel that way but that’s neither fair nor reality.

How many times in one thread must it be repeated that evacuation warnings were broadcast all over Gaza in Arabic warning residents to evacuate south, r375?

r376, you said we need to include discussion of the terrorists' demands.

We don't.

The sites in Gaza being blown up,,apartments, mosques, hospitals. The usual targets.

Wtf R378 where did I say that?

Did they blow up Rimal?

Hamas are terrorists but I think Palestinians have a good case, but bad execution and PR.

They're too angry about it and too easy to depict as crazy people. After talking to calm Palestinians who aren't worked up, you understand their plight more.

It's when they're emotional in the moment people think maybe the Israelis have a point. Protesting like Gandhi or Tibet would have worked so much better for sympathy than the Braveheart strategy.

R381 I think so.

Sorry R381 try this one

This is a Trump/Putin deal. Trump told the Russians everything. Then Putin uses this a way to destroy the US elections and get the fucktard back in.

This is going to be such a mess. Israel is going to cut off all the power and food supply. That mean no water pumping, no hospitals open, no way to cook, etc. That mean millions are going to be marching to the boarders to get out of there. America to the rescue again?

Huh R385?

Now we know what the 100 or more boxes of Top Secret documents stored at Mar-a-Lago were for. I mean everyone takes a few mementos from the office, a box or two maybe but what was Trump going to do with over 100 boxes and all that information?

[quote]Israel is going to cut off all the power and food supply.

They already have R386. It was announced and cut on Monday. No food, water, fuel or electricity. Also - the civilians in Gaza are forbidden from leaving Gaza so they cannot leave to seek shelter elsewhere. Whatever happens will include the mass death of women and children. There are 2.1 million people living in Gaza.

And it's [bold]BORDER[/bold].

You Trump nuts are just too much. Pretty soon you'll be blaming him for Ishtar.

[quote] This is going to be such a mess.

It is a mess.

[quote] Israel is going to cut off all the power and food supply.

They already did.

[quote] That mean no water pumping, no hospitals open, no way to cook, etc. That mean millions are going to be marching to the boarders to get out of there.

What "boarders" are they going to march to? Egypt's? (also, are you the goober that always misspells borders? Is this some sort of religious vow?)

[quote] America to the rescue again?

How? What? What are you talking about? Do you think they will be marching to the U.S./Mexico border? Do you have any idea what planet you are on?

I don’t think it’s far-fetched that Trump sold Israeli secrets for cash. A report in their vulnerability would be very valuable. The Saudi government definitely got something in return for the $2 billion they gave Jared. Who knows what secrets has been shipped and shopped around.

R389, these same people support the terrorists, Hamas. Time for them to start telling Israel where Hamas is hiding.

Well, Osama Bin Laden was the son of a wealthy Saudi businessman. So it's not a stretch that the 2 BILLION given to Kushner, a man with no experience in investing prior to working in the White House had something to do with the 100 plus Top Secret Documents being hoarded at Mar-a-Lago. Seriously, who takes over 100 boxes full of company property to their home unless they had plans to use it for something.

They, the Israeli Government, does not care if Gaza dies of dysentery. They want all Palestinians squashed like bugs. Why we must support this right wing racist government is beyond comprehension. Why must their colors illuminate the White House tonight? I hate Hamas and the horrendous killings and torture of Jews, but I also hate the slow torture of Palestinians, many of whom are so young, have no political affiliation, and are born into poverty, imprisonment, and despair.

All the dumb fucking ‘Americans’ complaining Jews in Israel are colonisers. Fuck off back to Europe you white supremacist scum.

But they are colonizers! And so we’re the British. The list goes on and on…

Jews in Israel are no more colonisers than Celts in Ireland

r363 the festival was NOT on occupied land.

I wish Israel would focus now on identifying terrorists bit not trying to punish everybody. Find then, arrest them, free the hostages. But stop bombing everyone.

I've been on an unconscious news/social media blackout all weekend, and I now realize why.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, Putin and Netanyahu got exactly what they wanted - everybody screaming at everybody else.

Perpetual division, chaos and conflict. Those are the goals.

You know how Hamas can ensure its people do not lose their water or electricity? Release the hostages. That assumes they're still alive and I doubt it.

[quote] I wish Israel would focus now on identifying terrorists bit not trying to punish everybody. Find then, arrest them, free the hostages. But stop bombing everyone.

The men who murdered, raped and mutilated corpses are in Gaza, being protected by Hamas. How do you suggest Israel ‘finds’ them?

By using their welll-funded intelligence.

Before we talk about a larger peace deal why not settle a small but contentious one? The Temple Mount. Why cant both the Muslims and the Jews have their holy site there? There is enough room. But the Muslims absolutely refuse to allow Jews to rebuild their Temple. If the two sides cant reach an agreement on this tiny plot of land how can they ever agree on bigger issues?

WTF and/or HOW?

Haaretz.com @haaretzcom 17h

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy"

Did he really say to give money to the enemy? I've kept reading tweets about Netanyahu and Hamas having an accepting relationship, as in Netanyahu thinks... Not sure what he thinks, but he's got to keep the cash coming in and criticism out.

Even if some poor, widowed senior citizen and her Indian carer got burned to Joan of Arc crisp in her wheelchair? Benny, ya need to be heard from...

[quote] Jews in Israel are no more colonisers than Celts in Ireland

lol no.

I like those rabbis against Zionism. Just chop that holy war land let everyone have a little piece of their own country. Remember Towel of Babel? Get like 25 countries in there and everyone can live how they want.

The Towel of Babel? The towel everyone's throwing in?

I have heard of towel heads, but never the towel of Babel. Sounds dirty.

R48 You are delusional.

R62 We can only hope.

fuck Palestinians go find some thumbs

Imagine how much better this world would be if the Israeli military would just go into Gaza and the West Bank and kill every last man, woman, and child.

What exactly have these subhuman dirtbags contributed to the world in the last thousand years besides misery, terrorism, and spousal abuse?

DL icon, Lindsey G., speaks…….

[quote] When the UN passed Resolution 242 in 1968 after the Arab-Israeli war in 1967 it stipulated that territory acquired in war must be returned.

Many people are under the delusion 242 is an authoritative mandate from the UN. It's simply a recommendation that kicked the can down the road. It's as binding on the world as an editorial on MSNBC.

R406, for decades Israel supported Hamas as a counterweight to Ararat’s Fatah party.. Doing so prevented the Palestinians from uniting. Hamas was able to drive Fatah out of Gaza and take it over completely, with the weaker Fatah controlling the West Bank territories. The West Bank, of course, was always much more desirable to the Israelis.

wipe those false prophets off the map. Those imposters don't belong on the land. They are not the original people.

I'm not Jewish, but I play one on TV.

"We're chartering a plane and heading over for a goodwill tour"- Sean Penn, Alyssa Milano, Pamela Anderson. Bono, Fran Drescher, Susan Sarandon, Ashley Judd and Angelina Jolie.

Don't forget about me!

There seem to be a few well informed people in this thread. The ones who can spell border.

Does anybody know why bordering Egypt doesn't step in and allow refugees in from Gaza so at least the children can leave? Children and animals are truly innocents. Egypt could give them sanctuary.

There was a very detailed national news report tonight on the sequence of events of the past few days with supporting videos. What Hamas did was barbaric and horrifying. It was a massacre. Hamas have to go completely. Netanyahu has said he will "change the Middle East". I don't know what that means but it doesn't sound good.

Does anyone else find this really upsetting? The world has turned to shit in the last few years. We all suck. We're all on the same planet and we suck.

To comment just on this event and not go back to the 1900s, Balfour, Trans-Jordan, WW II, etc.:

With this sneak murderous attack on young civilian Israelis, the kidnappings, and the on-going threats, Hamas has become its own worst enemy. Erstwhile sympathizers are finding it difficult to support.

Nobody cares today about photos of grieving Palestinians, at least I'm not. I'm more "FA, FO."

And Israel's upcoming annihilation of it and its leaders---wherever in the world the latter may have fled to---will be viewed as more understandable.

Because if you think that this initial seige and destruction of Gazan buildings is it....Haha!

The world saw the US defeat Japan by obliterating Japanese civilians, after which the United States became the leader, not the pariah, of the civilized world.

Does Hamas think that Israel didn't absorb that lesson in retaliation?

Oh, and if you credit Palestinian propaganda about how Israeli forces have been killing innocent Gazans 24/7/365, all I can say is: I believe them like I believe a Republican politician. And here's a bridge.

The world, Russia, Iran, and the feckless UN had better take a seat.

I googled and this is an interesting (long) article about why the other Arab states don't help Palestinians.

It certainly seems like this might be an act of desperation by Hamas in response to its funding dwindling.

And for those who want to go back to root causes you really need to go back to Emperor Claudius.

R423, You ask a pertinent question, re: Egypt. Let's expand it, shall we?

Why is it that the "Palestinians" (a completely made-up moniker, but that's for another day and another Google) have NEVER BUT ONCE been invited by their brethren to live in Arab country?

Because Jordan (then Trans-Jordan) did. And the refugees promptly tried to assassinate King Hussein (yes, that one, married to Lisa Halaby, aka Queen Noor). He then harried them out of the land on a date now immortalized in infamy as "Black September." Yes, it was an Arab enemy from whom the terrorist group took its name, made known in Munich, 1972.

Since then, the so-called Palestinians have been exiles, "strangers in a strange land." No Arab nation wants them.

Thus, Egypt.

R423 I truly wouldn't be surprised if Hamas wouldn't allow that. The only way they can pull ahead in a propaganda war is if children are made victims. They are known for storing weapons (rockets and such) in schools, hospitals and mosques. You can easily Google for mulitiple articles (old and new) on that practice.

Fuck you R424 R427 go straight to hell

Jewish family murdered by Hamas.

The husband was hot.

The photos of the baby seat soaked in blood and then the tiny body bag are two of the worst photos, along with the video of the Palestinian man cradling his dead baby who was killed in airstrikes.

Hamas are responsible for both of those deaths.

[quote]Palestinians, many of whom are so young, have no political affiliation, and are born into poverty

Why is that? What did Palestine do with the $40 billion+ in international aid it received from 1994 to 2020?

R322

There is a peaceful way through this?

Would you have said the same thing to Americans on Dec 8 1941?

We will likely see 10,000s of Wia and Kia civilians and fighters. The end of this will happen with Hamas dead. Those dead babies and the 200+ happy dancing young adults now dead, have made it so. It’s about survival and vengeance not who is historically right and who might be wrong.

And anyone that has said that American troops will absolutely not be directly involved are just hoping and wishing. They might not end up being directly involved.

[quote] What did Palestine do with the $40 billion+ in international aid it received from 1994 to 2020?

That question reminds me of what happened when Israel handed over the Gaza settlements to the Palestinians. To summarize, the 𝘗𝘢𝘭𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘭𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘴.

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip —

Palestinian looters took irrigation hoses, pumps and plastic sheeting from dozens of greenhouses Tuesday, a month after Jewish American donors bought more than 3,000 of the structures from Israeli settlers and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority.

Police commanders complained that they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized equipment in several abandoned settlements. In some instances, police joined the looters, witnesses said.

“We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, which was the largest Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in a televised speech Tuesday that he would take immediate steps to impose order.

As Abbas spoke, hundreds of masked Hamas members wielding rifles and grenade launchers paraded through the streets of a nearby refugee camp.

The greenhouses are a centerpiece of Palestinian plans for rebuilding Gaza after 38 years of Israeli occupation. The Palestinian Authority hopes the high-tech greenhouses will provide jobs and income from exports.

During a tour of Neve Dekalim, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Korei implored Palestinians to leave the structures intact. “These greenhouses are for the Palestinian people,” he said.

Jihad Wazir, deputy Palestinian finance minister, said about 30% of the greenhouses were damaged. He said that after a heated meeting with Korei and other Palestinian leaders, the security forces appeared to be gaining control.

The transfer of the greenhouses last month cost the donors $14 million. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own money.

R426, Hamas also gets significant support from Qatar, a country so far not mentioned. That's where Hamas leadership is located. It may not lack for resources for itself.

R429, I take your unoriginal opprobrium and lack of refutation and laugh in your ignorant face.

What are you, a Hamas lover? GDIAGF.

Well that explains why Qatar is involved it trying to make a deal regarding a hostage for criminals swap.

Palestine had significant investment to improve water supply and sewage but Hamas took a lot of the piping delivered to be used for rockets. So the water situation didn’t improve.

What's going to happen when they fallow through on their statement about murdering one hostage at a time. These people are animals. Remember when ISIS was beheading people on camera for social media? They burned a young pilot alive while he was in a small cage in the center of town. What are we going to do if they go there day after day? I don't think we are prepared for what's coming.

They can’t kill too many hostages because then they’ll have zero bargaining power with the Israeli government.

Enough of this islam shit. Wherever muslims go there's bombs, beheadings, rapes, homophobia, misogyny, discord and regression. What hamas has done is nothing new, mohammed himself did all this and muslims have been consistent in following his example to this very day!

We are all Israelis.

What a fucking slaughter!

Israel fanatics love pointing out the corruption in the occupied territories. Quelle surprise, bantustans in apartheid regimes are not well run.

Corruption is unknown in Israel on the other hand. The Prime Minister of Israel denies the charges and will be exonerated as soon as he cleans up the Gaza strip.

Gaza is 150 square miles with 2 million people. Brooklyn is 75 square miles with 2.5 million people. Palestinians turn everything into a shitshow shithole.

No ethical relativistic arguments will change the fact that terrorism is pure evil. Wish people would stop trying to justify it. It can't be justified.

R430 what's unfortunate about that family is that they thought they were safe. They had managed to hide in their panic room and text everyone that they were all fine, but then the Hamas terrorists managed to break in and murder them one by one.

I hope it wasn't like the Byzantine emperor Maurice, who after he was overthrown circa 600 AD was forced to watch all 6 of his young sons slaughtered in front of his eyes before he himself was executed.

Someone posted this upthread and it bears reposting - it’s quite chilling reading this now:

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy"

R446, that's nuthin! Mohammed ordered all the women and girls of a Jewish Banu tribe be raped in front of their husbands and fathers. The woman and girls than watched as all 600 of their husbands and fathers had their throats slit. The females were taken as slaves, of course.

Not only did mohammed order this evil event, he participated in it! The religion of peace, indeed.

Brent crude, the global benchmark, jumped roughly 4 percent to $88 a barrel, while West Texas Intermediate, the U.S. benchmark, jumped added around 4 percent to roughly $86 a barrel.

There are confirmed reports that 40 babies were murdered in a kibbutz, some beheaded.

And parents in Israel have been told to take phones off their children because Hamas are going to start uploading videos to TikTok of the hostages begging for their lives.

[quote]There are confirmed reports that 40 babies were murdered in a kibbutz, some beheaded.

Fuck off. Your link says nothing like that. Posters like you are really getting off on this fantasy shit aren't you?

What are the chances that Palestinian refugees end up in the states or in other European countries? As cold as it sounds, I kind of don't want them in my back yard...

[quote]Fuck off. Your link says nothing like that. Posters like you are really getting off on this fantasy shit aren't you?

"Fantasy shit" - you're either so naive you want to believe Hamas couldn't be that depraved or so brainwashed you deny all the atrocities perpetrated against Israelis and foreign nationals in Israel by Hamas.

The links at r423 and r425 are quite worth the read, for those here who are interested in learning something about this situation rather than bicker. For those interested in the roots of Hamas and the current day standing of the Palestinians in the Arab world.

[quote]Posters like you are really getting off on this fantasy shit aren't you?

Is the editor of the Jerusalem Post reliable enough?

The stories from southern Israel get worse by the hour.

A woman found murdered with a fetus next to her, still attached to its umbilical cord.

An elderly woman found in a pool of blood, her body riddled with bullet holes.

Entire families found burned to death in their homes.

THIS IS PALESTINIAN LIBERATION

R443 is arguing with someone who isn't here. Again.

I have been reading the responses since the attack started and I still cannot comprehend how anyone can claim that these horrible attacks are permissible because Palestinians are oppressed, anyone who believes this should offer to take the place of an Israeli hostage.

[quote]I have been reading the responses since the attack started and I still cannot comprehend how anyone can claim that these horrible attacks are permissible because Palestinians are oppressed, anyone who believes this should offer to take the place of an Israeli hostage.

When you hate Jews you can justify Jewish babies having their heads cut off. Simple.

An IDF general says the borders have now been secured, on to operations inside Gaza.

Schools in Israel have sent out a mass text to parents telling them to remove TikTok and Insta from their kids' phones because videos of captives begging for their lives are about to be released. Grim stuff.

r458 Sheltered, terminally online Western libs have been infantilising the Palestinians for ages now, treating them as their cute little pet cause without any agency of their own. That, and stealth antisemitism, of course.

As for the other groups who support this, it's just plain old out in the open antisemitism.

If they identify where Americans are being held hostage and a rescue tempt is thought feasible I would not be surprised to see US delta, seals, or marsoc involved.

FBI is currently on the ground and involved.

I’ve worked with a few Palestinians over the years. One was born in the US and the other two were born there and came to the US as young children. They were all very nice but none of them were particularly bright, and seemed oblivious to how the religion and the culture destroys the people.

"They were all very nice but none of them were particularly bright, and seemed oblivious to how the religion and the culture destroys the people."

Like American Christo-fascist republic party members.

^Yep, both abhorrent

Killing civilians and ill-treatment are prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. In addition, the Conventions demand that the wounded and sick are cared for. People detained must be treated humanely and with dignity. Hostage-taking is prohibited under international humanitarian law and hostages should be immediately released unharmed.

Critical infrastructure that people depend on to live – including electricity and water networks – must not be targeted. Irrespective of any military siege, the authorities must ensure that civilians have access to basic necessities, including safe water, food and medical care.

I’m extremely concerned about the suffering families who have lost contact with a loved one are now going through, a devastating situation.

We are ready to do everything we can to help, including in our role as a neutral intermediary. Humanitarian workers must be allowed free passage to assist those in need. Medical facilities and medical personnel must never be targeted.

Mirjana Spoljaric, President of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)

I wonder if Israel will remove Muslims from the Temple Mount. There is absolutely no reason why they should be there.

R464/R465 you really can’t compare those two. Christians living in the western world have a choice not to be stupid, they have a choice to educate themselves. People spending their entire lives in a shithole like Palestine really don’t have that choice. It’s complete brainwashing from day one with usually no way out.

I suspect Israel would like to keep everything confined to Gaza right now r467, and not fuck around with other shit. Eliminating Hamas is a big enough task without dragging other things into it.

[quote]This is an Israeli hostage in Gaza.

[quote]Notice the sandbags. Printed on them: "The people of Japan" and "For free distribution for Palestinian refugees"

[quote]I wonder if Japan knows their sandbags are being used by terrorists underground ?

Something that really confuses me. Whenever you look at pictures of the mobs of Palestinian men angry about something, they are always wearing western branded clothing and sexy jeans showing off their sexy asses. Okay, they aren’t wearing homemade tunics. They obviously bought these fancy sexy clothes somewhere, and they obviously had to have money to buy these clothes. So life in Gaza and the West Bank can’t be absolutely horrible all the time. It seems that they have some kind of economy.

[quote] Schools in Israel have sent out a mass text to parents telling them to remove TikTok and Insta from their kids' phones because videos of captives begging for their lives are about to be released. Grim stuff.

So they’re telling people to remove an app from their phones because of a hypothetical situation over which they supposedly have no control? And you’re buying it?

I haven't really read through all of these posts, but I am wondering. Is it truly surprising that a group of people treated as the Palestinians have been, suppressed, abused, oppressed, and living under these conditions, reacts this way? Hamas is "extreme". I felt the same way about 911.. Yes horrible, but the people in the Middle East have been used and abused by Western white people for ages. And BTW, I am Jewish.

R473 it’s really hard to understand the history of that region, because both sides have such a strong agenda that they lie. Palestinians lie about their history all the time. They claim that they were an independent nation before, which they never were - they were part of the Ottoman empire before Israel took over.

No its not surprising at all r473. The situation of the Palestinians in Israel in recent years is readily comparable to apartheid in South Africa at its gross peak. It's been a powderkeg situation waiting to blow.

However: this disgraceful terrorist incursion against Israeli civilians, women, elderly, children, is barbaric and completely unjustifiable. Hamas is nothing but a brute, male-dominated terrorist organization, backed by foreign trouble-maker interlopers like Iran who could care less about the plight of the average Palestinian but have a political axe to grind. The entire episode is going to unite the world against Hamas and its backers, and put the plight of the beleaguered Palestinians back many years.

R473, you really have no clue about the history of the region.

True r474, but pretty much all of Old Testament history is a lie also. And truth is nationalities are all somewhat arbitrary. "American" is not some inevitable, biological fact of nature. At some point a bunch of people in a particular landmass all band together and become a people, sometimes dragging in a lot of other people along with them.

The founding of Israel as a nation state in a particular area where a bunch of Arabs were living has made those Arabs "Palestinians" no matter what was going on in the Ottoman Empire.

[quote]No its not surprising at all [R473]. The situation of the Palestinians in Israel in recent years is readily comparable to apartheid in South Africa at its gross peak. It's been a powderkeg situation waiting to blow.

It's nothing like South African apartheid at its peak.

Inside Israel all citizens, Jewish and non Jewish have equal rights. They can vote, something Black South Africans were not allowed to do. Whether Israel have a functioning democracy is another question.

Palestine has the option of being a democracy but they are ruled by fascist terrorist groups who don't accept Israelis (Jews) have any right to their land or to exist in peace.

Israel Palestine is not that different to India/Pakistan after it was partitioned in the same year.

And in modern day South Africa they are deeply hostile to immigrants from other African countries. If you're an African fleeing war or persecution you're safer in Europe than going to Nelson Mandela's rainbow nation.

R471, there’s nothing cheaper than made in China clothing. Someone observed that the U.S. has the best-dressed poor people in the world.

R473 I am quite aware that the Palestinian State is not historical...the Ottomans were there I think for about 400 YEARS...However it is present day abd that doesnt excuse the treatment of the Palestinians..

R43 "Quelle surprise, bantustans in apartheid regimes are not well run."

If only they had the opportunity to form democratic governments like their brethren in the other Islamic countries. Pick a single one. Israel is far from perfect, and I'm not a fan of Netanyahu, but compared to any other country in the area it is a beacon.

What is a good escalation scenario?

[quote] Palestine has the option of being a democracy.

Hamas WAS democratically elected in January 2006 in what the international community stated to be a free and fair election. Israel and the U.S. immediately began attempts to sabatoge them. The blockade of Gaza began.

"Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.[1]

The newly elected PLC met for the first time on 18 February 2006.[2] Incumbent Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei tendered his resignation on 26 January 2006, but remained interim Prime Minister at the request of President Mahmoud Abbas. On 20 February, Hamas leader Ismail Haniya was nominated to form a new government. The new government with Haniya as Prime Minister was sworn in on 29 March.

In the lead-up to the elections, on 26 September 2005 Israel launched a campaign of arrests against PLC members. 450 members of Hamas were detained, mostly those involved in the 2006 PLC elections. The majority of them were kept in administrative detention for different periods.[19] In the election period, 15 PLC members were captured and held as political prisoners.[20]

During the elections, the Israeli authorities banned the candidates from holding election campaigns inside Jerusalem. Rallies and public meetings were prohibited. The Jerusalem identity cards of some PLC members were also revoked.[21] The Carter Center, which monitored the elections, criticised the detentions of persons who "are guilty of nothing more than winning a parliamentary seat in an open and honest election".[22]

[quote] The situation of the Palestinians in Israel in recent years is readily comparable to apartheid in South Africa

You mean Israel won't permit Palestenians to continue blowing up busses full of helpless civilians? How prejudiced.

I can't believe people are comparing evangelicals with Hamas and other terrorist groups that are videoing themselves raping corpses and beheading BABIES

I can't stand them, either, but come the fuck on.

R484 bringing you in depth analysis from a proud high school graduate.

R444. Comparing Brooklyn to Gaza based on population size is ridiculous. Brooklynites are free to travel to Manhattan, to Long Island, to California or to Tokyo is they want to. Every type of people and culture are there. Gaza is a pressure cooker of 2 million poor people who aren’t allowed to cross the borders of neighboring countries and almost all belong to a religion that’s diametrically opposed to a free and diverse society.

A plague on both houses. Hamas needs to be destroyed but Israeli militants and nationalists needs end, too. I just wish the people would rise up and get rid of them all, I suspect then they would be able to find a way to live together without these toxic forces destroying their lives...

[quote]Inside Israel all citizens, Jewish and non Jewish have equal rights. They can vote, something Black South Africans were not allowed to do. Whether Israel have a functioning democracy is another question.

All citizens in Israel have voting rights, but does that include those in the West Bank and Gaza? Especially the former territory, which is of high interest to Israel in terms of settlement potential. Both areas are under heavy control of Israel; Gaza depends on the latter for its water, electricity and fuel supplies. Israel heavily restricts and controls much of the borders of both areas.

Am not asking this to form a debate, I genuinely ask for correction about the voting rights issue, particularly for Palestinians in the West Bank territory. I may need to stand corrected (and am too lazy to google, apologies).

Why on earth would anyone choose to live in an unstable region like this? Are the ones living in occupied territories moderate or extremist conservative Jews like the ones the normal Jewish people hate here?

[quote]Comparing Brooklyn to Gaza based on population size is ridiculous.

This is the kind of obvious nonsense the fanatics love to spout. It's fun for them.

The same people on this message board that call Israel apartheid are denying that this is anything like 9/11. Whatever way the wind blows I guess. Israeli Arabs sit next to Jews eating at the same restaurants in Jerusalem. Gay Arabs frequent Jewish owned gay bars in Tel Aviv. Israeli Arabs have the same voting rights as any other Israeli. Apartheid means separation by race; Jews and Arabs are the same race. Even if you consider Arabs "brown", then so are the majority of Israel's Jews. Of course I'm sure there are new definitions of apartheid now; just like with everything else, the definition changes with each Twitter or Tik Tok that gets posted.

[quote] All citizens in Israel have voting rights, but does that include those in the West Bank and Gaza?

Goodness no. The reason Israel doesn't annex the territories is that they would have to start giving the Palestinians rights. This would affect the demographics of the Jewish state to an alarming degree.

The reason israel doesn't want peace is because the status quo is better. They are hoping life will become so unsupportable the Palestinians will leave.

R492 girl stop fucking lying and misrepresenting the truth.

I never cease to be amazed by you far left wackos. You scream endlessly about Christo-fascists, but if it’s any other brand of religious nuttage, you have your noses so far up their asses you can smell the last falafel they ate.

Gaza and West Bank Arabs are not Israeli citizens. Some, especially in the West Bank, are Jordanian citizens. Jordan is the majority of the original Palestinian Mandate and is majority Palestinian. Not sure honestly if they have full rights in the Kingdom. The ruler, King Abdullah II, is of the Hashemite dynasty and does not identify as Palestinian. The current king's father had his own problems with the Palestinians (Black September) and I'm not sure how that effected Palestinian rights in the monarchy.

[quote]. Israeli Arabs sit next to Jews eating at the same restaurants in Jerusalem. Gay Arabs frequent Jewish owned gay bars in Tel Aviv. Israeli Arabs have the same voting rights as any other Israeli. Apartheid means separation by race; Jews and Arabs are the same race.

r492 I'm aware that Israeli Arabs have the same national rights as Israeli Jews. That's great - I wanted to know if the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank had voting rights or other rights of citizenry. I was under the impression that they didn't (and may need correction).

Gaza and the WB seem to be these nebulous areas, whereby the citizens there are subject to much Israeli control and intrusion, but they don't have any national rights or input into anything.

NONE of which, btw, supports or justifies terrorist group Hamas, or the terrible, inexcusable events of last week. Just wanted to add that. Am seeking background information.

King Abdullah of Jordan's wife, Rania, is Palestinian. That I know. I wasn't aware that the majority of people in that country are Palestinian. Will they be taking in more Palestinian refugees or be subject to another major influx with recent events? Where will all the displaced people go to live? Obviously not to Israel or Egypt.

Displaced people are a hotbed of misery and misplaced anger, and can foment a lot of trouble including the incursion and support of terrorist groups like Hamas/Hezbollah.

R497 No. The West Bank was captured from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt during the Six Day War. Neither became part of Israel and I would assume that Gazan's were Egyptian and those from the West Bank definitely were Jordanians at one time. Normally the people living in areas that are captured and hostile are not granted citizenship. I know the Egyptians said "thanks, but no thanks" to taking Gaza back. They took back the Sinai Peninsula as part if the Camp David Peace Accords and the Gaza Strip is just adjacent. I guess they didn't want the Palestinians that came with it.

[quote] I wasn't aware that the majority of people in that country are Palestinian

Because that's not the case.

Re: the above poster reference to South Africa and bantustans which are unconnected enclaves. This short New Yorker article explains what Israel did under Netanyahu.

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have voting rights in those territories. Why would they have voting rights in Israel?

[quote] Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have voting rights in those territories. Why would they have voting rights in Israel?

Why indeed. Why would you give voting rights to people in illegally held territories you are trying to cleanse, ethnically speaking?

[quote] I wanted to know if the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank had voting rights or other rights of citizenry.

Not a senisble question. Why would they vote in Israel when they insist they are their own state. Also they deny Israel's right to even exist so how could they vote in a phantom state. The disadvanage of a Two State Solution.

Hmm, do you think Hamas illegally holds the Gaza Strip?

As for the West Bank, the control of various sectors was determined in the Oslo Accords, IIRC. You could ask Abbas, who is in the 18th year of his four-year term as President of the Palestinian Authority.

To the poster who described the reports of babies being decapitated as ‘fantasy shit’, here’s a CNN journalist describing seeing the bodies.

The heirs of The Final Solution

R500 Looks like it's not the case anymore. Many were expelled to Lebanon by King Hussain during Black September and Jordan declined to take back the West Bank during the peace talks. Jordan has been otherwise accepting of Palestinians and most have Jordanian citizenship. To this day millions of Jordanians are of Palestinian decent, but may identify as Jordanian. Jordan is the largest chunk of Palestinian Mandate so you could argue they are Palestinians. I guess you have to allow people to identify how they want and that can change.

R506 Sorry, not evidence of beheaded babies. Nic is just reporting what the IDF supposedly said bout bodies. He even trails off when he says 'heads cut'. That' doesn't sound like beheading, which would be the lead.

It's gruesome enough you ghouls, stop making up seven worse shit.

*even* Nothing about babies either.

[quote]Not a senisble question. Why would they vote in Israel when they insist they are their own state. Also they deny Israel's right to even exist so how could they vote in a phantom state. The disadvanage of a Two State Solution.

r504, see r503 and the map at the New Yorker article linked at r501. Their "state" is literally run by Israel, especially the West Bank, where Israeli settlers have routinely come in and taken land for their settlements, effectively cutting off large swaths of Palestinian areas from each other. Making them ineffective to be governed by Palestinians. If the West Bank has come to be dominated by Israelis, who call all of the shots socially, economically and politically, why aren't citizens there granted voting rights? Israel should perhaps stop pretending it to be PA territory and simply annex it honestly, rather than take it back bit by bit as has been occurring.

R509

I believe you will be found to be full of crap about this——they did not do this beheading stuff——if so will you be back to admit as much?

Cut heads and then he can’t finish the words ? Sadly you will be proven wrong.

Hamas raped corpses. Fucking psycho killers.

Want to add to r511, annexation would allow full control over the area, allowing Israel and the IDF to fully root out Hamas terrorist shit and the worse criminal elements. They would be able to exert better control over the Palestinian villages, and the more radical Israeli settlements that have also incited violence in recent years.

This would still leave the issue of Gaza, which is 100% Palestinian settled and controlled, and I believe is a far more troublesome area in terms of terror cells and activities.

The beheading of babies is being confirmed by a number of sources. Fuck those who stand up for Hamas and would jump to the conclusion they would not do such a thing despite it being reported that they did..

The links in this thread have taken me around to a lot of disparate information and sites. Some of it is confusing.

Below is a link to a clip from earlier this year of Israeli settlers attacking and setting fire to a Palestinian village, which I assume is in the West Bank (and not Gaza). It looks violent and deadly. It was supposedly in retaliation for the shooting of two Israeli settlers by local Palestinians. Note re source: this is from Al Jazeera, an Arab journalistic organization funded in whole or in part by the Qataris.

Question: is this exaggerated or a one-off event, or have the settlers routinely taken retaliatory matters against Palestinians into their own hands as shown here, burning down villages? Does the IDF ever intervene, either for or against this? Who is in charge of policing the WB in matters such as this, who is in charge of criminal investigation and prosecution.

Is it as lawless as this story suggest? If the Palestinians are supposed to be in charge of the affairs of the WB, how are non-Palestinian settlers allowed to go renegade without impunity. This ties in to my questions re Palestinian voting rights in Gaza/WB.

[quote]This would still leave the issue of Gaza, which is 100% Palestinian settled and controlled, and I believe is a far more troublesome area in terms of terror cells and activities.

There's no comparison between the two, Gaza is pretty much the only troublemaker these days. Hamas even blew up a mosque in the West Bank once.

r512 The BBC has already confirmed the story, didn't take long for that deplorable poster to have egg on his face.

I still don't know if the guy refusing to believe the atrocities actually happened is a Hamas supporter or just too naive to think Jew hating terrorists could brutalise people in that way. I'm thinking it's the former.

For those seeking a less biased, more reliable source on the situation described at r516, here's a very detailed account from CNN, posted last June. It is...disturbing to say the least:

R519

So they are a supporter or just stupid?

Jesus Christ! The beheading of babies on a kibbutz is on a bunch of mainstream news sources now. I sincerely hope this turns out to be untrue. No way I'm clicking on any of those youtube videos. I'm afraid I'd never sleep again.

Tlaib came out with a statement blaming Israel. We now wait for Jessica Chastain to chime in with her brilliant take as well. Given how she dismissed the Ukraine war, saying it's mostly white people living there, it's probably gonna be something like "At least they weren't brown babies!"

r522 It's been confirmed by several news agencies by now, saying foreign reporters were allowed to see the corpses and the scenes where this took place. One pregnant woman apparently had a fetus lying next to her, still attached to her with the umbilical cord.

They were being held and tortured for 18 hours straight before help arrived. Horrific. If this happened in a suburbia to white American soccer moms, nukes would be flying by now.

None of this background really matters that much right now. Hamas committed horrific acts. Now Israel will commit horrific acts (actually started already). No UN Resolution, no statement from the Red Cross or various Congressional Representatives or urgent meetings at Amnesty International are going to make the slightest bit of difference. Nothing matters right now except that Israel and the IDF and Netanyahu and the Israeli government are in a wild fury and hell will rain down on Gaza for the next few days or weeks or months or whatever is required to convince Israel that Hamas has been destroyed as a military and political force. The people who hate Palestinians can rejoice in the fact that many, many Palestinians will be killed very soon, especially Hamas leaders and Hamas militants.

Biden standing strong and very clear where we stand. Very presidential.

R525 Yes, there will be hell to pay for the Palestinians. I do not expect the degree of gloating on the Israeli side, but there will be exceptions. I really don't think most of the world gets off on this grotesqueness like these terrorists obviously do. They are "special" and absolutely nothing at all excuses it. Having the stomach to butcher a baby is something else and no, it's not the same as children dying as a casualty of a bombing. How can you look an innocent in the face and slaughter him. Disgusting and worse than trash.

[quote] Hamas committed horrific acts. Now Israel will commit horrific acts (actually started already).

These threads have been chock-full of despicable bothsidesism, like the above. Barbaric, inhuman atrocities committed by the Palestinians is not equivalent to the fully justified military response by Israel. There’s no gray area here, no “both sides”. The Palestinians are 100% at fault and Israel is right and justified in what it is doing. Everything that is “horrific” in the atrocities committed by the Palestinians and the necessary Israeli response is 100% attributable to the Palestinians.

"There are moments in this life when pure, unadulterated evil is unleashed on the world," Biden said, with Vice President Kamala Harris and Secretary of State Antony Blinken standing behind him. "The people of Israel lived through one such moment this weekend."

Israeli settlers really seem like evil incarnate, from the videos, stories and articles, I've seen/read.

These are the same people that were spitting at Christians, let alone the ones they've driven from the birthplace of Christianity.

Are you saying the slaughter that will happen in Gaza won't be horrific r528? Are you saying nothing is horrific if it is committed by people you like and approve of? Are you a child, or just childish?

It will all be horrific and it will all be Hamas’ fault.

The West is responsible for not doing anything about the disinformation campaign against Israel that we’ve seen for decades. The disinformation has tried to flip reality and claim that Israel has “oppressed” Palestinians. There’s plenty of willing stooges who are happy to promulgate the disinformation, and we see some of them on this site. Good people need to crack down on the disinformation against Israel until people rightly see it on par with pizzagate and the people pushing it as equivalent to Qanon.

War is so lame and so last century. Time to let women run things. There would be no war.

[quote] Time to let women run things. There would be no war.

Stealing this joke, but: there'd still be wars. They just wouldn't tell us why.

So true, r534.

Have you seen some of the bloodthirsty women at the Palestine protests?

And the women who joined Islamic State loved abusing the Yazidi girls who were used for daily rapes and general household slavery.

White House: We believe there are 20 or more Americans who were in Israels unaccounted for.

We’re starting to see some pushback against the disinformation coming out of college campuses. We can’t deprogram all the antisemitic, Israeli-hating students, but media companies shouldn’t allow these groups to push their hate on the social media platforms.

R534

Let?

Woman could not even get Hillary elected. You will earn it or you won’t but there will be no——let.

To R495's point-- don't play yourselves. I don't know HOW these Detroiters could be surprised.

I remember walking around Hamtramck when they started blaring the call to prayer in the city and the hair on the back of my neck stood up!

How these people-- gays, hipsters, women, trans-- thought that these Muslims who walk around town every day in their Middle Ages outfits, whose women wear not just a hijab, but burqas and niqabs, would 'embrace' them, and even trusted them to the point of giving them ALL the power in the city, is beyond me. It was liberals (the new kind of liberals, the dumb kind) who just bent over and presented hole to these men.

The fetishization of Islam is utterly delusional and those who think these people are on their side deserve all the mockery they get.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

The IDF has claimed Palestinian militants, Hamas, killed babies and “decapitated” women and children in a ruthless attack in Kfar Aza, an Israeli village close to Gaza.

“When Hamas came here they decapitated women, they decapitated children. We saw dead babies, girls,” says Major David Ben Zion, 37, a reservist deployed here on Saturday to try to evacuate the few survivors of the onslaught.

The Independent did not see evidence of this.

Yeah, other mainstream media sources have shown blood and the videos of kidnapped, confused toddlers and elderly, and terrified young people being taken away, and the terrorists themselves have uploaded videos of themselves desecrating the bodies of the dead, but the Guardian didn't see evidence of that, so the entire nation of Israel must be making it up.

*The Independent^

The Independent journalist made it clear she was reporting about dead babies without seeing dead babies despite other journalists having been shown the dead babies first hand.

Naturally a lot of people are questioning her article about dead babies for that reason.

Has anyone looked at A Jazeera to see what they are saying?

After this i have no sympathy left for the Palestinians.

Biden's speech is incredible. That is leadership.

Indeed, r549.

I think Chet hanks could do better

I agree with Biden about Hamas being comparable with ISIS.

Sorry if I am ignorant, but after reading leftist friends Twitter and FB accounts, they are posting in support of Palestine and saying things like Israelis kill Palestinians every day, that this is nothing different than what Israelis do to Palestinians, how they learned this violence from Israel, etc.

But I never read or hear any specific examples of Israel doing an unprovoked massacre on Palestinians like this, or am I just ignorant? Can anyone tell me where they get this information from, or give any examples? I tried to ask one of them and there response was something akin to “well, the reason these things aren’t reported that much is because you know who runs and owns the media”

R547

Has anyone checked to see how Fox is covering this?

Lol, "leftist friends", r553?

R553 - your leftist friends think Palestinians have no agency.

Owen Jones was on a news debate with Jewish MP Margaret Hodge who had visited the Kibbutz most affected earlier this year. He reeled off all his standard talking points but she wasn't taking any shit. He refused to say that Israel had a right to defend itself and lost his temper with the female host Sophy Ridge.

R554, blah, blah Bidens fault....6bil to Iran...democrats support Hamas....the usual shit.

R555, yup, leftist friends.

Médecins Sans Frontières said they were unable to reach their teams in Gaza on Tuesday, after the Israeli government completely shut off water and electricity supplies.

Léo Cans, the group’s head of mission in Palestine, said in a statement:

This all makes it extremely difficult to coordinate rescue operations and access the injured.

He said the people of Gaza are “terrified” and in “terrible mental distress”. “There aren’t words to describe what people are going through,” he added.

The declaration of war must not, under any circumstances, lead to collective punishment of the population of Gaza. Cutting off water, electricity and fuel supplies is unacceptable, as it punishes the entire population and deprives them of their basic needs.

R557

Thanks, you saved me the trouble. They must have hated Biden’s speech today . He not only came off strong and presidential they know how popular a US President is in times of significant stress like this when they project strength.

R553 Far left liberals suddenly become autistic whenever victimhood is involved. Once they get it in their head that a certain group is a victim, there’s nothing you can ever do to change that. African-Americans, trannies, Muslims…… even when some people in these groups show repeatedly that their misfortune is a result of their own doing, far left liberals refuse to see it. If a transgender woman is killed as a result of poor life choices and being involved in prostitution, she was killed because she was trans. If a black person is killed while threatening a police officer with a gun, they were killed for being black. This is just how it is with them.

No U.S. president has ever won an election defying the Israeli lobby.

When I see photos of attractive, young Israeli women who have been taken, my heart sinks to think of what is happening to them. Savages!

𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐋𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐌𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐩𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐚𝐜𝐫𝐨𝐬𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐲 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐜𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐛𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐫𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭 𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐜𝐥𝐚𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐝 𝐡𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐨𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐈𝐬𝐫𝐚𝐞𝐥.

The massacre was commemorated by Black Lives Matter in Chicago, which posted a graphic of a paraglider, the Palestinian flag, and the caption “I stand with Palestine” on X Tuesday.

On Instagram, Black Lives Matter Los Angeles also joined in the celebration, insisting that Hamas’ “resistance must not be condemned, but understood as a desperate act of self-defense.”

Black Lives Matter Washington, D.C., meanwhile, remained silent on the atrocities committed against Jewish civilians before retweeting posts insisting that the Israeli response to the attack will be “a continuation of war against Palestinians” rather than “targeted at Hamas,” and that “Free Palestine with or without anyone trying to make indefensible genocidal oppression a ‘complicated’ both sides matter.”

Former NBA star Amar’e Stoudemire blasted the larger Black Lives Matter movement and its supporters for its failure to condemn the atrocities committed against Israel over the weekend.

Said Stoudemire on Instagram. “And for all y’all Black Lives Matter ain’t saying nothing, ‘Well let me figure out exactly what’s happening before saying anything,’ Fuck you.

“All you politicians who always have something to say on the contrary — I see you. Fuck you. All you Black Lives Matter people who always have something to say and always supported everything else and you quiet now — fuck you too"

[quote] But I never read or hear any specific examples of Israel doing an unprovoked massacre on Palestinians like this, or am I just ignorant?

You're ignorant. Read a book. "The Iron Wall" by the Israeli-British historian Avi Schlaim is a good place to start. Google 'life under occupation'. It's there if you care enough to inform yourself.

Oh look. R564 is dragging African-Americans into a situation that has little to do with them.

Is he that fat ugly aspie Matt Anscher freak?

R566 - BLM dragged them in

The Israeli historians Joseph Heller and Yehoshua Porath have claimed that Avi Shlaim "misleads his readers with arguments that Israel had missed the opportunity for peace while the Arabs are strictly peace seekers".

According to Yoav Gelber, Shlaim's claim that there was a deliberate and pre-meditated anti-Palestinian "collusion" between the Jewish Agency and King Abdullah, is unequivocally refuted by the documentary evidence on the development of contacts between Israel and Jordan before, during and after the war.

Trolldar r561.

[quote]Oh look. [R564] is dragging African-Americans into a situation that has little to do with them.

She's since been dragged to "ignore" along with comrade R561, similarly charged. Racist, insensitive filth.

r547 : Yes. Their coverage is . . . "interesting" . . .

[quote] Sorry if I am ignorant, but after reading leftist friends Twitter and FB accounts, they are posting in support of Palestine and saying things like Israelis kill Palestinians every day, that this is nothing different than what Israelis do to Palestinians, how they learned this violence from Israel, etc. But I never read or hear any specific examples of Israel doing an unprovoked massacre on Palestinians like this

It’s because your friends are spreading Qanon level disinformation.

[quote]The Palestinians are 100% at fault and Israel is right and justified in what it is doing. Everything that is “horrific” in the atrocities committed by the Palestinians and the necessary Israeli response is 100% attributable to the Palestinians.

I would alter this to read that Hamas is 100% at fault, and Israel is justified in what it is doing to them. Everything that is "horrific" in atrocities committed by HAMAS and the response is 100% attributable to HAMAS.

I am not of the extreme mindset that 100% the millions of Palestinians who will have to flee their homes or be killed over the coming days had anything to do with the horrific terrorist acts or even support Hamas. Yes I'm aware that Gaza voted in the political arm of that group as leadership; but I'm not going to condemn an entire group for the extremists among them.

Anymore that I blame the majority of sane, free-thinking Israelis for the actions of the land and blood-thirsty (and occasionally murderously violent, against Palestinians) right-wing settlers in the West Bank.

Well the way Israel is talking, all the hostages are going to be toast. They are going to level Gaza no matter what. No negotiating going to happen. Price of war.

R568 You prove you know how to google. Care to suggest another book on on the topic?

R547, have you? I checked their YouTube channel Saturday evening, and they were covering it about the way one would expect.

Last I checked they hadn’t uploaded anything new since then.

[quote] I'm not going to condemn an entire group for the extremists among them. Anymore that I blame the majority of sane, free-thinking Israelis for the actions of the land and blood-thirsty (and occasionally murderously violent, against Palestinians) right-wing settlers in the West Bank.

Yet you just admitted that you group together and blame so-called “right-wing settlers” instead of condemning only individual extremists among them. You’re picking and choosing when you want to want condemn an entire group and when you don’t.

R575, I was responding to an already made book suggestion. Care to read the thread?

R578 I'm the poster who made the suggestion. Care to read the book?

I stand corrected r577. I should re-state that I condemn the individual, extremist (and occasionally murderously violent) right-wing settlers among the larger group living in the West Bank. Fair enough.

R574 The hostages may already be dead.

[quote]But I never read or hear any specific examples of Israel doing an unprovoked massacre on Palestinians like this, or am I just ignorant? Can anyone tell me where they get this information from, or give any examples? I tried to ask one of them and there response was something akin to “well, the reason these things aren’t reported that much is because you know who runs and owns the media”

r553 you are not reading this thread. See r516 and more importantly, r520 for carefully reported details of the rampage by a group of settlers earlier this year against the village of Huwara, in the West Bank. This took place only a few months ago, in early 2023.

They ran in as a wild mob, screaming "death to Arabs!" while they torched the village in the middle of the night, killing one person and leaving dozens homeless. The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) was chastised for standing by and doing nothing.

I don't have links re other renegade rampages, but this was very violent. There are groups of right-wing settlers that have long been attacking their Palestinians neighbors or in cases of revenge, taking matters into their own hands to distribute mob justice rather than let the police or IDF take care of things appropriately.

The incidents of last week were absolutely of a higher barbaric order, much more organized, planned, and widespread. Hamas is a terrorist group akin to Al-Queda and must be rooted out and eliminated, for everyone's sake. But there has to be some kind of restraint on the part of the rural, more extremist Israelis (living among the larger settler population) so that they don't continue to add fuel to fire with renegade mob violence....and let the IDF do their job here.

War sucks

Regarding the tech failure in Israel, for all we know, Hamas had inside plants who fucked with it.

Thanks for proving my point R570. If you’re a certain kind of person nothing is every your fault.

Maybe the US should send each Israeli household an AR 15.

Part 3 is at the link below when we run out of posts here

R586

Many could have used an AR with a 30 round mag.

[quote] It will all be horrific and it will all be Hamas’ fault.

R532 you cannot deny the role Israel’s treatment of Palestinians over the last 50 odd years, occupation of their lands, removal of their rights to vote or travel or self determine, killing of over 7000 Palestinians in the last 20 years, you can’t deny the role that this plays in the current situation. To do is is just so deceptive.

The Gaza Strip is among the most densely populated places in the world. More than two-thirds of its inhabitants are refugees, and more than half are under eighteen years of age. Since 2004, Israel has launched eight devastating “operations” against Gaza’s largely defenseless population. Thousands have perished, and tens of thousands have been left homeless. In the meantime, Israel has subjected Gaza to a merciless illegal blockade.

What has befallen Gaza is a man-made humanitarian disaster.

Based on scores of human rights reports, Norman G. Finkelstein's new book presents a meticulously researched inquest into Gaza’s martyrdom. He shows that although Israel has justified its assaults in the name of self-defense, in fact these actions constituted flagrant violations of international law.

But Finkelstein also documents that the guardians of international law—from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch to the UN Human Rights Council—ultimately failed Gaza. One of his most disturbing conclusions is that, after Judge Richard Goldstone's humiliating retraction of his UN report, human rights organizations succumbed to the Israeli juggernaut.

Finkelstein’s magnum opus is both a monument to Gaza’s martyrs and an act of resistance against the forgetfulness of history.

[quote]Since 2004, Israel has launched eight devastating “operations” against Gaza

And here comes the ninth.

Norman Finklestein is an absolute crank. I’d sooner read a book on the Middle East by Marjorie Taylor Greene

Killing one person in retaliation for the two that the Palestinians had already killed. Sorry most were left homeless after the fire. The people slain and mutilated on the kibbutzes should be so lucky.'

Yours is a false equivalence because you don't want Palestinians to own Hamas. You want to say Hamas was driven to do this. You want to supply context for mutilating babies. Sorry, not buying.

There is a relationship between Hamas and the people they represent. I don't know what it is but I don't see groups of US sympathizers distancing themselves.

Hamas could stop the bombing and deprivation of resources in one minute by giving up the hostages. The ball is in their court, not Israel's.

R589

And today as right as you may be , so what. History now starts 3 days ago with those horrific killings and beheadings and rapes. Now Hamas will die. And they will be hunted until they are no more. That is how this story plays out.

What happened prior to 3 days ago matters not at all now.

R592 As if you ever read a book.

And.... great... from BLM Chicago.

When Israel decimates Gaza, I wonder if they’ll call it the final solution to the Palestinian problem.

[quote]They ran in as a wild mob, screaming "death to Arabs!" while they torched the village in the middle of the night, killing one person and leaving dozens homeless. The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) was chastised for standing by and doing nothing.

Sure, that's the exact same equivalent of killing hundreds of concert-goers at a rave, torching grannies, raping women, strafing entire families, and parading hostages through the street, r582. ffs

The Israelis are not stupid r597. They know there will NEVER be a "final solution" to the Palestinian problem.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote] Hamas could stop the bombing and deprivation of resources in one minute by giving up the hostages. The ball is in their court, not Israel's.

You can't possibly believe this. You would have to be insane to believe this.

Israel will be avenged. This is not going to suddenly stop because Hamas begs for mercy and offers to give back hostages. This is not going to end until Israel is satisfied that Hamas is well and truly destroyed.

You might as well ask a tornado to please, stop.

[quote]And.... great... from BLM Chicago.

I don't understand BLM's interest in this. Is it just from anti-Semitism?

Hamas can stop this now by surrendering the hostages and giving themselves up.

Hamas is an LLC of foreign governments funding a terrorist organization, with "ordinary" Palestinians as pawns and sacrificial martyrs.