John Carpenter's "They Live" (1988)

I’ve just been stewing on it a few days and this would make a strong prequel series.

I fucking love this movie. Creepily prescient.

Exactly, R2. Carpenter teased a sequel back in 2018 but nothing ever came of it.

[quote] In the coming years, They Live will become as noteworthy as George Orwell's 1984.

No, hon.

I recently rewatched this and find it pretty creepy. In the “oh, shit!” sense.

[quote]OP: the main theme of the film dealt with government and the the ruling class forcing the lower rungs of society to behave via the overconsumption of media.

The main theme of the film was that hostile, camouflaged extraterrestrials lived among us, running our lives. There's no evidence that anything like that has happened, or will happen.

PD, I think you missed something in your viewing.

R6

“ Carpenter has said that the film's political commentary derives from his dissatisfaction with then-U.S. President Ronald Reagan's economic policies—also known as Reaganomics—and what Carpenter viewed as increasing commercialization in both the popular culture and politics of the era.[2]

Upon the film's release, Carpenter remarked, "The picture's premise is that the 'Reagan Revolution' is run by aliens from another galaxy. Free enterprisers from outer space have taken over the world, and are exploiting Earth as if it's a third world planet. As soon as they exhaust all our resources, they'll move on to another world... I began watching TV again. I quickly realized that everything we see is designed to sell us something. ... It's all about wanting us to buy something. The only thing they want to do is take our money." To this end, Carpenter thought of sunglasses as being the tool to seeing the truth, which "is seen in black and white. It's as if the aliens have colonized us. That means, of course, that Ted Turner is really a monster from outer space."[c] The director commented on the alien threat in an interview: "They want to own all our businesses. A Universal executive asked me, 'Where's the threat in that? We all sell out every day.' I ended up using that line in the film." The aliens were deliberately made to look like ghouls, according to Carpenter, who said "The creatures are corrupting us, so they, themselves, are corruptions of human beings."[5]”

Best and creepiest scene from the movie.

[quote]R7: PD, I think you missed something in your viewing.

So there's no hostile, camouflaged extraterrestrials living among us, running our lives in the film?

Being deliberately obtuse won't help you.

I remember this movie being everywhere at the beginning of the pandemic. It's certainly a powerful allegory about social programming and conformity.

Most people seem to cast their personal Boogeymen as the aliens and whatever political group they belong to as the freethinkers.

That whole speech in R9 does make you wonder what a waking psychological condition similar to sleep would look like. Familiar? 😳

Never seen this. It's on Tubi, so I'll give it a chance tonight.

What a classic. I watched it half a dozen times. The movie has layers of meaning metaphors similes and literal. thats why it is so dam good.I love this genre. I would include Repo man, Idiocracy and a version of brave new world with Leonard Nimoy as The Controller.

Rowdy Roddy Piper had a great ass.

I would love to spill ropes ands ropes of my man cream all over Meg Foster's face. How incredibly beautiful she was. Then disaster struck, and came on fast - age!!!

I think Carpenter has made better films but I enjoyed this one.

[quote]R11: Being deliberately obtuse won't help you.

I'm not being obtuse, but straightforward and honest. And you're pulling that same crap you did last week with 'Blade Runner' ('𝐒𝐤𝐢𝐩𝐩𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐨𝐰𝐚𝐫𝐝 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐝𝐞 𝐑𝐮𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐫: 𝐀 𝐓𝐡𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐄𝐧𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐇𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐲') using a sock, trying to pretend that the film was about the Christian apocalypse.

In this particular moment, with people falling down 'us-versus-them' rabbitholes of conspiracy-based unreality, and building towards armed resistance towards society, 'They Live' is not a helpful film. But I think you know that.

Your problem with the film is that it's anti-camouflaged alien? Sounds like something a camouflaged alien who walks among us would say....

R19 you've never struck me as dumb but I never even opened much less read the Blade Runner thread. I don't even think I've seen it. You have me confused with someone else.

Let me add PD that the aliens are obviously meant to represent the corporate rich, which is obvious, and you must knowledge, hence the "obtuse" comment.

^^you must know

I fucking hate typing on a phone.

PoisonedDragon doesn't do subtext.

"They Live" is great. But the problem is that Carpenter made it as a critique of right-wing borg-think. But current right wingers view themselves as "freethinkers" and liberals as the Borg.

They just don't want to admit that "freethinkers" all think the same thing.

[quote]R22: Let me add PD that the aliens are obviously meant to represent the corporate rich, which is obvious, and you must knowledge, hence the "obtuse" comment.

[quote]R23: ^^you must know I fucking hate typing on a phone.

It reads a lot like it was passed through Google Translate to try to achieve something in English.

[quote]R21: you've never struck me as dumb but I never even opened much less read the Blade Runner thread. I don't even think I've seen it. You have me confused with someone else.

Mmm-hmm. Sure, Jan. Both threads claim the films are prescient, and try to force odd interpretations on them. Different accounts, same troll user. Probably responsible for the thread about 'V' from two weeks ago, too.

[quote]R24: PoisonedDragon doesn't do subtext.

These "subtexts" are forced. Even the summary offered by R8 agrees with the description I gave at R6.

R17 is straight. These trolls don't belong here.

Ok so PD has revealed himself to be a common troll. Sounds like the troll who accuses people of saying shit they never did. I'm betting it has some sockpuppets. Too bad as I often agreed with his religious thoughts and enjoyed its back and forth with the Jesus troll.

Oh well. No more.

Poisoned Dragon, I often wonder what kind of cloak and dagger life you must be leading.

You should try out "COLOSSUS: The Forbin Project." It will also one day be a classic.

My brother thinks this is a documentary.

In a certain way, it is.

r15 - Is there anywhere to watch Repo Man for free?

Hmm, I don't recall a "V" thread either recently. I may have that troll blocked yet I'm apparently posting in it too. Fascinating. PD is starting to sound awfully familiar. For one , the incessant need to respond to EVERY comment is a huge tell.

How have I not heard of this? It seems ahead of its time, R29.

It is not news to anyone the Poisoned Dragon is a troll. He can live his life and do what he wants, though.

I'd just like to register that I don't take his idiot political or religious opinions seriously and I think he needs to chill the fuck out with the paranoia.

I always hoped Roddy Piper's kilt would flip up to reveal his cock and ass, or that he would buttfuck Rick Rude right there in the ring.

R34 Thanks for that. I'm watching Colossus tonight. May I also recommend The film, The Bubble. Simular terror from space with lots of twists.

OK, watched it last night. A lot of fun, a good story, an interesting message, and it seemed every cent of the low budget was on screen.

Rowdy Roddy Piper was no Olivier but he was just fine in this, particularly in his MacGyver mullet and filling out a pair of '80s jeans.

[quote]R27: Ok so PD has revealed himself to be a common troll.

How? By summarizing the film, remarking that it doesn't speak to today the way you're claiming (there aren't any aliens here), and by drawing comparisons with all the recent threads making these kinds of claims? Yeah, must be tough dealing with that.

[quote] I'm betting it has some sockpuppets.

▲ Says the user who drags in sockpuppets to bitch about me (R27, R28, R33, R35).

[quote]R33: Hmm, I don't recall a "V" thread either recently.

See link.

Just like all of these threads, it pretends (insert 1980s sci-fi) has relevance to the present.

[quote]I may have that troll blocked yet I'm apparently posting in it too.

Socks, folks. Remember?

[quote]PD is starting to sound awfully familiar.

Only if you've been posting to the couple of threads I've called out for running the sci-fi relevance troll. But I don't have much posting output these days. Certainly not as much as you do.

It’s a great fucking movie. Carpenter in peak form, both as director and composer.

R39 you are fucking psychotic. Wow. Paranoid nut job. Bye, troll.

Those aren't sock puppets when posted from the same account, you fucking moron. I'm pretty convinced you're the troll who accuses everyone of saying things they did though.

lmao

Is he looking at liberals or is he the liberal?

I think it's a slam against liberals, r44. That's r43's only post in the thread, so...

[quote]R41: you are fucking psychotic. Wow. Paranoid nut job. Bye, troll.

You say 'bye,' but then you reply yet again, just as you continued to reply after promising 'no more' at R27.

[quote]R33: For one , the incessant need to respond to EVERY comment is a huge tell.

Not only do you respond to 'EVERY comment', you reply multiple times. What's that a huge tell of?

[quote]R42: Those aren't sock puppets when posted from the same account, you fucking moron.

You've responded the most, sure. You're R2 / R7 / R11 / R21 / R22 / R23 / R27 / R33 / R41, and R42.

But then there's also OP / R1 / R3, and R8.

And R12 / R13 / R20 / R28 / R31 / R34 / R35.

And single-use entries R24 and R30.

Nearly this entire thread is run by a single user with several socks, bumping it along, conversing with himself, insulting me for calling out what you're doing. And you've been doing this crap for ages. It always starts with 'Let's talk about such-and-such film,' and then the socking begins.

That's not paranoia. It's just fact.

r46 PD, you do have paranoia. That's why people end up blocking you, eventually. The constant "sock detecting" is annoying. Especially when you're wrong. It just makes you look like a crazy person. You've done this shit to me before and I had to block you for a minute because it was, legit, giving me a headache. And that doesn't usually happen. So, congrats, I guess?

But yeah, you need to chill with this "sock puppet detective" routine, for real.

▲ Ah, a different sock! One that claims to be black.

[quote]R47: You've done this shit to me before...

You must have been socking (as in when you and now-redlined socks 'BlackMillennial' and the whiny, crybaby sock were strafing threads here last year). Try cutting it out.

[quote]You must have been socking...

Stop.

Drop.

Shut 'em down, open up shop.

[quote]And single-use entries R24 and R30.

I like to think of myself as having many uses.

R50 just block the troll. Seriously.

[quote]R24/R50: I like to think of myself as having many uses. —R24, who suddenly finds himself unexpectedly enjoying this thread

Ignordar says you currently only have four posts (and yesterday, when I initially checked, you only had one). Is that actually the case, or is there a serious flaw in Ignordar?

I always thought this alien looked like Barbara Bush:

R52 Your Ignore function isn't working. R50 has an extensive posting history and excellent taste in films. Please calm down, no one is out to get you.

If any movie is ripe for a remake, it's this one.

I wouldn't trust anyone to do it justice. It's so of its time, you'd have to make major adjustments to the script. Maybe a sequel.

I remember when all the Trump shit starting really getting out of hand and people in this country began to turn into MAGA Trump bots, I instantly thought of this movie and how prescient it was. And, shallow side note: Roddy Piper is scorching hot in this.

R57 they think you're the liberal bot (the exact term would be NPC). I'm amazed that everyone can see the same movie and cast each other as the villains and themselves as the heroes.

It deserves a high quality art-house remake. By a Cronenberg or Lynch level director (I mean when these guys were at the height of their abilities).

Hard to find a suitable actress with Meg Foster's amazing eyes.

r54 Exactly. It shows, for me, that r50 has posted in over 10 threads. How PD doesn't realize that ignoredar only shows posts from threads that you've also participated in after being here longer than me is hardly surprising. Took me just a few months to figure this quirk of the ignore function out. The dude is a whole clown.

I think any number of treatments of this movie, updating it for current times, could work just fine.

Hell, it could be a decent Netflix series too.

I'd love to see a big-budget, serious update of this movie. A version not afraid to keep all the sharp edges and pointed political & economic commentary. Something that would really ruffle some feathers.

Which is why I think a series would flesh out all the unanswered questions.

This would be a great mini-series. Come on Netflix. You need something because you've sucked balls lately.

R40 Carpenter has an entire subgenre of synth wave named after him. It's iconic.

My father used to love this movie and would watch it whenever it was on TV. He, too, thought it was a critique of the left and not the right. To Carpenter's credit, he keeps things mysterious and subtle enough to allow the audience to make up their own mind as to who the film is poking fun at. He does the same thing with Michael Myers in Halloween. That mask is so blank and just human enough to allow the audience to project any kind of fear they have onto that face.

Anyone thinking this is a critique of the Left is utterly delusional. I have no clue how anyone could POSSIBLY think that.

[quote]R60/BlackMillennial sock: How PD doesn't realize that ignoredar only shows posts from threads that you've also participated in after being here longer than me is hardly surprising. Took me just a few months to figure this quirk of the ignore function out.

A single account user like myself would not be able to discover that. It would require the perspective of more than one account to be able to see differences between respective Ignordar readings. You're advertising that you're a sock/multi-account user.

Roddy was so hot in this movie.

[quote]R54: Please calm down, no one is out to get you.

I'm not the one who felt so threatened by a posted opinion (R6) that they mustered several user sock accounts to try to shout it down. Now 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡'𝑠 insecurity.

R69 Even if that was true, is it worth derailing a thread about a movie from the 80s to have a grand debate about it? We want to talk about John Carpenter and They Live.

Did they ever reveal in the movie how the special sunglasses were made and where they came from? I can't remember it's been a while since I've seen this.

I agree, a good prequel series would be interesting to dig deeper into the origins of the aliens, their invasion, and how the first group of humans "woke up." Kind of like Westworld when the androids started becoming aware they were playing roles for human entertainment.

[quote]R70: Even if that was true, is it worth derailing a thread about a movie from the 80s to have a grand debate about it?

One could as easily ask you and your socks that question; collectively, all of your posts outnumber mine. It's more a case of y'all's inability to let it go.

[quote]We want to talk about John Carpenter and They Live.

So did I, originally. But I also wanted to address the trend of polluting the board with a specific discussion template, bringing up a film and claiming it was "prescient," prophetic of today's conditions, and often proclaiming that the end is coming. The board is peppered with such "discussions," being managed by scores of sock users, trying to insure that the single point of view is the only one tolerated.

As social commentary, Carpenter's 'They Live' was addressing issues contemporary with the film, not the future. (This is an observation equally applicable to biblical exegesis. Those anonymous authors were drawing from/speaking to their own time, not the future. It's one of the major flaws of faith-based exegesis. But I digress.)

At the time of the film's release, I was growing somewhat less enthusiastic with Carpenter's output (particularly 'Prince of Darkness' 1987), and there was just something about 'They Live' which rubbed me the wrong way (the second paragraph of R19 summarizes how it strikes me now). IMO, Carpenter got back on track with 'In The Mouth of Madness' (1994) and 'Village of the Damned' (1995), but after that, I felt he was tapped out. I stopped watching his subsequent output.

Discussion of 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑐𝑒𝑝𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 of the film (second half of R12, R25, R65, R66) are interesting to me. I mentioned that something about 'They Live' felt off to me, and that was that the threat (government, corporations, the media, here cast as extraterrestrial overlords), the purported heroes (rough-and-ready armed types who'd uncovered the conspiracy), and its proposed solution (guerilla warfare against the threat) struck me as modeled on anti-goverment, Ruby Ridge/Turner Diaries types, which were coming into their own at the time. This was the first time I was unhappy with the politics of a Carpenter film (although 'Escape From New York' (1981) had a bit of the same vibe).

We can move discussion of sockpuppeting here:

R70/R73, I thought you wanted "to talk about John Carpenter and They Live"?

Seems like you kinda don't.

R74 tell me on the other thread. That's what it's for.

As for the politics of the movie, it does appeal to the American militia mentality. Forming a posse and going after your enemy. I think Carpenter may have been borrowing from Westerns and inadvertently picked that up. He seemed very careful not to endorse political positions of any kind in the film.

[quote]R74: I thought you wanted "to talk about John Carpenter and They Live"? Seems like you kinda don't.

[quote]R75: tell me on the other thread. That's what it's for.

Hmm. That doesn't make a lot of sense, except that you 𝑑𝑜𝑛'𝑡 really want to talk about John Carpenter and They Live. You simply want me to go where you want to put me, and that's not happening. I'm not a purveyor of "paranoid conspiracies." I have no interest in that.

And you yourself admitted at R1 over there,

[quote]Sockpuppeting obviously sometimes happens, but at the worst it's irritating. It's not the end of the world. We don't need to have screeching meltdowns about it.

So, in effect you've stipulated that I was correct over here. Thank you. That will do.

The only one here exhibiting "screeching meltdowns" was you and your socks.

I do not "screech" about anything, ever. I never so much as raise my voice on the DL, or engage in ad hominem. I don't exhibit emotion, but maintain a flat affect at all times. Whenever one of you speaks of my supposedly being afraid ('terrorized' was Anscher's word on another thread), that speaks only to your intent, and never my reaction.

[quote]Forming a posse and going after your enemy. I think Carpenter may have been borrowing from Westerns and inadvertently picked that up.

I don't really see that. 'Forming a posse and going after your enemy' is generally initiated by law enforcement, i.e. a sheriff or marshal, which deputize the posse members. As such, it would be considered an extension of government, which is one of 'They Live's 'big bads.'

[quote]He seemed very careful not to endorse political positions of any kind in the film.

Not careful enough. Support of a rightwing militia trying to take down the government is implicit in the film.

It's at this point that you should explain in detail why that's wrong, and how exactly 'They Live' instead espouses a left wing point of view - if in fact that's what you believe.

[quote]Support of a rightwing militia trying to take down the government is implicit in the film.

[quote]Carpenter called “They Live” his most political film and said it was his response to consumerism and class disparity in the 1980s.

[quote]“By the end of the ’70s there was a backlash against everything in the ’60s, and that’s what the ’80s were, and Ronald Reagan became president, and Reagonomics came in,” Carpenter told the sold-out theater at the Chinese 6 Theatres in Hollywood. “So a lot of the ideals that I grew up with were under assault, and something called a yuppie came into existence, and they just wanted money. And so by the late ’80s, I’d had enough, and I decided I had to make a statement, as stupid and banal as it is, but I made one, and that’s ‘They Live.’ … [bold]I just love that it was giving the finger to Reagan when nobody else would.”[/bold]

R77/R78/Black Millennial sock, I can accept that giving the finger to Reagan may have been Carpenter's intent, but it didn't really play that way with audiences - particularly the far right among them, people who'd been anti-government for decades, and who had gotten behind 'The Turner Diaries' (1978). The way 'They Live' was interpreted seems to have gotten away from Carpenter, and he will never be able to reign it back in.

It's unfortunate.

[quote][R77]/[R78]/Black Millennial sock,

Getting really tired of you and your shit, PD. I didn't even read the rest of the bullshit you wrote. I no longer care. You're a headache to engage with on here and I refuse to continue trying, anymore.

The only similarity I have with that other poster is the fact that we're both Black and have views that differ from all two of your "Black friends" you insufferable --and obliviously racist-- imbecile.

Black Republicans are just the fucking worst.

Can we get back to the topic at hand?

How do you think the aliens came to Earth originally? How long did it take them to infiltrate powerful positions?

Wrestlers trying to act in legit movies is always the funniest and most entertaining thing to me. The joke that never gets old.

The fight in the alley felt like it went on forever.

It presaged the drawn-out Peter Griffin/Chicken fights on 'Family Guy.'

The problem these days is, the mouthbreathing Trumpkins have chosen to see all government this way.

They don’t realize that it’s the neo-fash demogogues they worship who are the camo aliens.

R77 The movie is blatantly anti-corporate, anti-mass media, could be interpreted as anti- bourgeois (I interpret it that way.) When Carpenter made it, these were all reliably Republican and conservative power bases- even media, if you include advertising.

Power has shifted and times have changed. Corporations, mass media, and the bourgeoisie all are Democratic bases of power now. Democrats are corporate.

The message of the film hasn't changed, the political landscape has changed. That's how people have such wildly different interpretations of the same story.

[quote]R80: Getting really tired of you and your shit, PD. I didn't even read the rest of the bullshit you wrote. I no longer care. You're a headache to engage with on here and I refuse to continue trying, anymore.

You always say that, but then you come back, again and again. You just thought that since it had been a few months, you wouldn't be recognized.

The only similarity I have with that other poster is the fact that we're both Black and have views that differ from all two of your "Black friends" you insufferable --and obliviously racist-- imbecile.

It's been just over a year (April 2022) since Anscher launched his three 'pretend-to-be-black' socks, using them to push offensive, far right, anti-minority views. The three of you used to fly in formation, appearing in threads in unison, parroting the same tired arguments. Two of them were redlined (Black Millennial is Troll 5993, and the other is Troll 6000), but this account wasn't, because you dropped out of sight for several months, and put a moratorium on pushing racist, divisive shit. Now you're back to try to pester me on this thread - interesting because it suggests you're an arrow in the quiver of someone (Anscher) associated with this thread.

^^ "The only similarity I have with that other poster is the fact that we're both Black and have views that differ from all two of your "Black friends" you insufferable --and obliviously racist-- imbecile." was supposed to be in quote format, from R80.

And you always start the shit, R80. Like last October's thread, 𝐌𝐦𝐦..𝐛𝐥𝐚𝐜𝐤-𝐞𝐲𝐞𝐝 𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐜𝐨𝐫𝐧 𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐫 (linked below), where you came in at reply 66, and I identified you (reply 68). Then you screamed about how persecuted you are by me (replies 73, 75), how you're such a victim, how I'm supposedly stalking you, when you're always the one who replies to me. I don't go looking for you.

[quote]𝐘𝐨𝐮: Getting real tired of your shit, PD. You are irritating as all hell constantly doing this bullshit to posters. Seriously. It's actually, legit, starting to get on my nerves. Especially since you bring up this dumb mess in threads where it's not even called for.

[quote]𝐌𝐞: I don't do this to 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠; I do this to 𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑠𝑜𝑐𝑘𝑠, the ones which bring themselves to my attention. I would never have noticed you if not for your smartassery at [Reply 66]. You made me look to see who you were, and that's why you got called out.

[quote]𝐘𝐨𝐮: Now, leave me the hell alone. This is venturing into fucking harassment territory, now, since you're clearly stalking me on here.

[quote]𝐌𝐞: You replied to me, at [Reply 66], remember?

[quote]𝐘𝐨𝐮: For the billionth GODDAMN TIME, I am not Black Millennial. That is a Black gay man. I am a Black gay female and this is my only fucking account.

[quote]𝐌𝐞: If it wasn't you using another account, you wouldn't be able to say with any certainty 𝑤ℎ𝑜 'Black Millennial' was. No matter which account you're using (and since they keep getting redlined over your trolling - [Troll 5993] and [Troll 6000] - you have fewer of them to use), you exhibit the same lack of restraint, retain all the same grudges, and say the same things. If you really didn't want me replying to you and calling attention to who you are, you wouldn't reply to me, but you simply cannot resist. I'll tell you the same thing I told your other sock: Put me on ignore. But since you're the same person, you won't do it.

Why do you keep doing it? Do you think there will be some other outcome than you getting called out?

Girls, you’re both insufferable.

Can we get back to talking about wrestling and cult film?

R71 I don't remember any backstory being given. It was never said where the aliens were from or when they showed up on Earth either.

I'm assuming that someone has probably theorized at some point that They Live is a continuation of The Thing, since the infiltrating aliens operate in a similar way.

I don't see any similarities R93.

Thing aliens take over and kill the host, r93.

They Live aliens just brainwash people.

Why were they brainwashing people? Does anyone remember? Usually there is a motive. Was it just to keep us passive?

Passive so they can rape the planet while living the high life and keep the peons poor and struggling. Kind of like our current crop of pols and Corp overlords.

r96 This is the answer. As someone else stated, the theme of the film is anti-corporatism. The disguised aliens are an allegory for corporatists regardless of political affiliation. That is why in today's world it's easy to see the aliens through a bipartisan lens.

Nah, they're pure Republican. Pure conservative. They're about keeping the masses down and exploiting them. They're the 1%. There is no way to twist this to make the aliens Democrats, sorry.

R98 I assume an R97 posted? No surprise I have tha trollerina blocked and have for quite awhile.

r98 I don't think you realize that Democrats are also corporatists. It's not the 80s anymore.

[quote]R93: I'm assuming that someone has probably theorized at some point that They Live is a continuation of The Thing, since the infiltrating aliens operate in a similar way.

It's been decades since I watched 'They Live,' but I don't recall anything about the alien overlords physically assimilating people, as did the Thing. The Thing's strategy would make media/corporate control of people completely superfluous.

R100, I don't think you've paid any attention to anything over the last few years. Because no.