SUCCESSION, Season 4, Thread 4

I never realized Alex Sarsgaard has Bugs Bunny teeth.

He has pointy vampire teefs.

There are a lot of takes on the last thread that I am not seeing. I don't think Matsson is the new Logan at all. He's no mastermind. He's awkward as fuck. I don't see the purpose of the India leak as a trap. Stewy saw an issue with the numbers before the vote, and was trying to convince the kids to look into it. Matsson's call to Kendall in the middle of the night tipped him off that something was up. Mattson desperately needs WayStar right now, and he can't have the deal go sideways.

And Matsson cuddled up to Shiv and told her about Ebba before Roman had a meltdown on him on the mountain top. He comes off as douchebro who probably is that awkward with women. Ebba has been acting aloof and disgusted with him since we met her. Maybe finding his dad's body after he committed suicide really did fuck him up.

Furthermore, I don't think he rates Shiv at all. He wanted to use her, sure, and either drive a wedge between the sibs or just get her to spy for him, but when she demanded he give her a key position after the takeover, he had to "have a think" on it. Why would he need to think on it if he thought she had any value to him in the company? She fucked over her brothers for essentially nothing. Also, someone mentioned that Tom was jealous they were sleeping together, but there has been no indication Shive and Lukas are having a sexual relationship at all. It has only been a few days since her dad died, remember.

I have felt for Roman for most of this season, but its really hard to be in his corner when he supports a piece of shit like Menken as "his guy". That kid is seriously messed up.

The Nathan and Kendall convo - he wasn't trying to "humiliate" Kendall. They've been friends for a long time. He said to him, "I'm not Gil, and you're not Logan. And that's a good thing." He's reminding Kendall who he is. I would love for Kendall to reboot ATN and take their shit down. His own daughter is getting racially targeted by Ravenhead's followers. But I doubt that will happen, although Ken is probably right to kick his sibs to the curb. He knows Shiv better than she thinks.

R3 But all Kendall would hear is, "...you're not Logan." That tracks the central theme, I think.

Kendall will match or exceed Logan's ruthlessness and succeed, and wear the crown.

Or, Kendall will choke, be a pathetic loser, a whiney bitch ... and let the whole company slip away.

My money is on the latter.

Yes, R4, you're right that is probably all Kendall would hear. I was simply commenting on another poster's take that Nathan was humiliating him. He wasn't. And I doubt Kendall felt humiliated, just irritated that he couldn't make that play to put a thorn in the deal with regulatory interference.

Kendall managed to pull out a dazzling presentation last episode even though his brother kind of crushed his confidence seconds away from him stepping onstage (which was pretty shitty considering Kendall has been having Roman's back through some outrageous behavior). He bounced back and I think that is telling. Perhaps he is finally out from under the yoke his father had on him while alive. People keep saying he is so bad at this but his instincts are often right. He had Matsson figured out before Shiv did. I think that if the show ends with Kendall becoming his father, ruthless and a "killer", he's not really won. He once told his dad he was better than him as a person, and he wants to believe that so badly, but in the end, he'll end up just like him.

Unless Shiv crucifies him with the waiter story. We know she's capable of it.

Rhea Jarrell said that Kendall had all his shots but he didn’t know when to play them. Maybe that’s changed.

Deep down, does Rava love Kendall? I mean, enough to want him back? I know he loves her. But they seem jittery together. I really should watch the earlier seasons to find out exactly what happened between them.

That hot, dark haired Viking bear is actually being played by an Icelandic actor.

In an entire series filled with horrible people, Kendall is the absolute worst. Completely delusional and creepy. I can't stand looking at Jeremy Strong. He is ugly as hell.

Jeremy Strong has a deep, sexy voice, though.

[quote]Deep down, does Rava love Kendall? I mean, enough to want him back? I know he loves her. But they seem jittery together. I really should watch the earlier seasons to find out exactly what happened between them.

She seemed to love him still during the first season, but every season since her fondness for him has seemed to wane. This week i thought she was just blown away by how deluded he was about how to behave regarding Sophie's problems... she's realized how toxic he is and how completely in thrall to his father's memory he will always be, and that will always be far more important to him than his relationship with his children.

We've had so many fakeouts about Kendall dying young either due to suicide or substance abuse that I keep wondering if that's where we will end up.

There were a few seconds when I thought Tom was going over that balcony last night.

In some way way he did.

R13 I actually thought Mattson was going to open that window he was lounging in and jump out. It would have livened up a fairly dull (ex-Shiv and Tom) episode.

Some idiot on the Guardian said Matsson was the European equivalent of the Roys because his name sounds like Mad Son. Oy vey.

Shiv should've had the 'what's in it for me' talk with Matsson BEFORE she started selling out her family. He was decidedly underwhelmed by her 'shit hot' proposal.

Now he can use her betrayal against her. She's not nearly as clever as she thinks she is.

R16 she has a history of shooting her wad prematurely. The Pierce dinner anyone?

Mencken is going to win the election. Chaos will ensue! Maybe rioters will storm ATN and kill Greg. Or Tom. Or someone.

*Potential Spoilers Spoilers*

From the leaked funeral photos from a while ago, Matthew was the only one not photographed in any of the group shots, so either he’s been uninvited to Logan’s funeral, or maybe something happens to him episode seven and he can’t attend. Or, he simply wasn’t in the photos. My dude should say fuck this shit and dip out of the Roys for good anyway.

Matthew as in Tom? I spent at least a minute trying to come up with a character named Matthew...

I had to look up 'Matthew' too R19.

Did someone already mention that this latest episode is what they call a Bottle Episode? It's the term for having only one setting, in this case the apartment. It's to save money primarily.

Sorry, yes Matthew McFadyen. Forgot to put the last name.

Why would there be a riot if Mencken wins? I think the outcome of the election will be in doubt- that will cause the riots.

I think the series finale is going to be the funeral.

The scorpion and frog fable in the previous thread was a direct steal from yesterday's New York Magazine online piece.

Tom is the scorpion.

Shiv has repeatedly been the frog. First for Logan, now for Matsson.

She was the scorpion first. Now Tom is one. He was a frog.

They're both horned toads.

Tom’s a bearded dragon. He should ditch the women and go get himself a man!

R16, Rhea Jarrell correctly described Siobhan's issue: She's not as smart as she thinks she is.

When Greg commented on the confusion of the people on the zoom meeting, I was sure it was gonna turn out he had been muted the whole time.

Easter egg? When everyone was filing in to Shiv/Tom's building I could swear I saw Brian Cox (from behind) walking in. Anyone else sense that?

Matson goaded Kendal into a yelling match at the party in front of all the ‘important people’ and got Kendal to scream a few times that he loves the deal.

Nice save and makes it all the harder for Kendal to say he hates the deal later on.

Roman is going to commit suicide.

Roman and Gerri get married.

I think Roman and Gerri are truly done. She did not want to have anything to do with him at the tailgate party.

Gerri is in Positano counting her "eye watering sums of money".

Roman will try to fire her for a third time.

It won’t work.

This final season hasn't been as bad as I feared judging from the weak ass dialogue in the first episode. All of the vocal disfluencies as a stand-in for real writing is still irritating to the ear. For such well educated folk, they sure can't speak in clear sentences. None of the siblings have anything interesting to say. What happened to dynamic writing? Dialogue is clearly not Armstrong's strength.

Episodes 4-6 were a strong run of episodes for S4. Sometimes, I still get bored with the writing and performances. You can only make staccato sentences, furtive glances, hushed tones, and asides in private corners but so interesting. The music works hard to sell the idea that something is happening, but if you strip away the HBO, luxury television production values, the show is less impressive.

Brian Cox being the indomitable CEO & patriarch made the show watchable. I'd still argue S1 was the show's best season overall. Kendall's guilt over the waiter's death is why he eventually won the Emmy. S3 and S4 have been less impressive from a writing standpoint. Skarsgard is a breath of fresh air and I wish we got more of Karolina over the course of the series. She and Gerri are clearly the MVP's of the C-Suite.

S1 started with Kendall one-upping the cocky the Asian guy from The Menu, acquiring his company Vaulter, and eventually shuttering it after discovering they falsified metrics to achieve higher valuation. This show is not that creative. The same thing will happen with GoJo. Except now, Kendall is smarter and sharper. He caught it before the sale not after. He'll use it to his advantage and try and acquire the company. Logan wanted Kendall to prove himself and grow into the role of CEO. He's not perfect and he's certainly an egotistical asshole, but he has better business acumen than his siblings which is all that matters.

Seeing how all the tech companies have faltered against Waystar/RoyCo, the show is arguably pro legacy media as a business that actually makes money and takes a position beyond we're all data worth selling to the highest bidder. With legacy media, consumer information has an ideological function-good or bad. Also, most tech companies outside of the biggest ones (FAANG) are easily overvalued despite not being profitable.

I thought it was interesting that Jeremy Strongs character called out the homophobia of Skarsgard’s comments during their fight when his company news station is basically a walking homophobe

S1 and S4 should've been the entire show, being by far the strongest ones. S2 and S3 were just kind of resetting the main storyline (the actual succession issue) and keeping things in a holding pattern.

Kendall: “Yeah?”

Shiv: “Yeah?”

Kendall: “Yeah?”

Shiv: “Yeah.”

R38 Disfluencies. Impressive.

I think the "luxury television values" are exactly why people do watch: I mean Jessye Norman wouldn't have been as popular if she couldn't sing, etc.

I think most TV series jump the shark, and term actually coined by watching a show that jumped the shark. I can't think of a series that didn't go on for a season or two too many. Even the great classics: Sopranos, The Wire, Mad Man.... all had really zzzzz periods.

I mean, "starting in June, 'Lear, Season 4!!'" The Bard's muse would have been exhausted.

The Wire’s entire last season was just BAD. ALL of it. That’s not true for The Sopranos or Mad Men.

Possibly, Man Men did have a great last couple episodes... but my point wasn't that series can't end well, but rather they just fo on too long. Sopranos and Mad Men both had (to me) really weak episodes.

I am hoping for a great ending to Succession.

Oz was only watchable for 3.5 seasons. Once Adebisi was killed halfway through S4, the show lost the chaotic force it needed to keep things exciting. Plus, it gave us less male nudity and gay sex. S6 with the ghosts of Oz was trash.

Veep was perfect during its first four seasons, but after Armando left to do nothing worth seeing, the show suffered. How it won Emmys for its garbage S5 & S6 instead of the improved S7 is a mystery. They should bring the cast back for a special Veep movie, but I think they've said everything there is to say.

GOT was perfect during the first four seasons then the writing dipped with each season as the spectacle increased. True Blood was great during its first four seasons, but then from S5-S7, the vampires were the only good thing about the show and they were barely on screen. That cast was too bloated. Eric and Pam were the best characters from beginning to end, but everyone else sucked. HBO better not let The White Lotus go beyond 4 solid seasons. Three if Mike White fails to deliver on more male nudity and gay sex.

It's very clear they're not going to be able to stick the landing on this show. It will be remembered as an arthouse version of Robin Leach.

All this talk of shows that stayed strong to the end, and no mention of Breaking Bad? For me, that show and The Sopranos are the two winners.

I'd add Six Feet Under to a show that was a winner at the end.

I’ll add The Americans to that list—the series finale was top-notch.

Better Call Saul was pitch-perfect all the way through, especially the way it got darker and darker to meld with the atmospher of Breaking Bad.

[quote]The Wire’s entire last season was just BAD. ALL of it. That’s not true for The Sopranos or Mad Men.

Couldn't disagree more. The Wire's last season was its weakest for various reasons, but its best scenes were as great as anything from before, and the actual finale was a terrific send-off for those characters. The culmination of Bubbles' journey, in particular, was very moving, but even the characters for whom things didn't work out well had good arcs.

The Sopranos suffered in the later years from increased story time for AJ and Meadow (both actors were never more than adequate, often less) and general staleness and repetition, and that overly long final season was frequently dull. Mad Men was never as good once Megan showed up, and the show didn't do as well with the late '60s as it had with the "Camelot" years and the immediate aftermath. And the final episode was SO bad :that rom-com nonsense with Peggy and Stan; Don scampering off to Esalen and hugging a weepy dude and thinking up a Coke commercial. Matthew Weiner's wife, when she saw the script, asked him skeptically if this was really what he was going with. She should have been in the writers' room. (But if you believe allegations that have come out since, maybe that would have been upsetting for her.)

R50 I’m just about to start watching BCS so that’s good to hear! I’ve heard it’s as good as Breaking Bad so I’m looking forward to it.

This shit-fest is STILL on?

It really has become a camp fest. Every episode is just these three siblings going from scene to scene, spewing 'edgy' bro slang. If you listen to their chatter when they're supposed to be talking about business, they say absolutely nothing. It's as if the writers don't even bother getting advice or input from a real-life trades or business specialist. Two episodes back they all flew out to Los Angeles and we STILL have no idea why they were there! They landed, all of them coming in separate planes (apparently)... then the SAME crew met in some plain-looking conference room that looked nothing like something you'd see at a major Hollywood studio. Suddenly there was some big event that "Kendall" spoke at. He just went out there and said some word salad and had the crowd of investors on their feet. The increasingly irritating Kieran Culkin hammed it up with his schtick, that got old in the last half of the first season... I mean, how many times can these three be shown having "tense" merger meetings in exotic locales? Remember the WASPY family and its matriarch they were trying to buy the other network from? They must have had at least three episodes where the two families met up to wheel and deal.... cue lots of campy power talk and cunning planning in between breaks for walks and dinners, etc. That also went nowhere.

I want to see the story play out but can't wait for it to wrap up. I DO give them credit though for ending it now why it's still a little interesting. More networks should do this. I'm tired of the years-long lifecycles of good programming with tense storylines that we must wait to see play out over ten or more years and between 2 and 3 year hiatuses between seasons... Ugh. ENOUGH already. Bring back sitcoms if this is how it's gonna be!

[quote]Bring back sitcoms if this is how it's gonna be!

Succession IS a sitcom. Does anyone watch this show because it's a remotely serious treatment of business, or wealth, or how one percenters talk, much less operate? If it was, it would likely be the most boring show ever greenlit.

You watch this show for the laughs and the acting/writing choices and the big budget. That's it.

I hope we get more Stewy before the end.

I’ve warmed up to Stewy. Somewhat. Specifically his dialogue with the other characters. I find it witty mixed with some cunting. Never found him attractive as I don’t go for the Sinbad the Sailor types. I think he’s a closet queen who deep down crushes on Kendall.

I still can’t quite believe we’re meant to see Tom as straight.

From the beginning, i saw him as one of those glaringly obvious, “who do they think they’re kidding?” closet cases you see in conservative families.

At this point the show owes us a suicide. At various points I’ve thought Kendall, Roman, and Tom would all kill themselves…and the show has given ample reason to make us believe it would happen.

I've rarely seen a show on Datalounge where more posters were invested in trying to predict what was going to happen next on it. I don't know why that's such a big deal for this show and not for other DL shows people have discussed intensely over the years.

I don't get what the pleasure is in trying to predict what will happen next.

R60 You seem rather stupid.

r60 You realize the show is ending in three episodes, right?

R62, R60 has never watched the show.

[quote]I’m just about to start watching BCS so that’s good to hear! I’ve heard it’s as good as Breaking Bad so I’m looking forward to it.

It's superb throughout. Just hang in there through the relatively low-key first two seasons. It's almost a legal dramedy then, with some darker stuff involving Jonathan Banks and Michael Mando's characters taking place in the margins. Then it soars to higher levels beginning in season 3, and the last two seasons (5 and 6) are especially gripping.

Roman and Kendell suddenly and conveniently finding out about GoJo's inflated Indian subscriber numbers just by stepping out on the balcony and talking to GoJo's PR person is just.... lazy

It's not lazy; that's just the nature of soaps - sudden and dramatic revelations.

And Tom and Shiv going full Krystle and Alexis on the terrace. That was some fun stuff!

R60 has spoken

[quote]Roman and Kendell suddenly and conveniently finding out about GoJo's inflated Indian subscriber numbers just by stepping out on the balcony and talking to GoJo's PR person is just.... Dynastic.

Roman is going to be the suicide owed to us r59

[r60] was obviously not here for Mad Men

Soapiest soap to ever soap

🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼

SHIV: You bitch!

MARCIA : If I am, take a lesson from me. You may need it in life.

KENDALL : Marcia!

MARCIA: What do you want?

KENDALL : I've heard you don't care for my rapping!

MARCIA:: That's right. It's the truth that hurts.

KENDALL : The truth? I hope you say that when I sue you in court for libel.

MARCIA : Oh, you'd only make a fool of yourself, Kendall. Everyone knows you're nothing but a... second-rate lounge act.

KENDALL : I don't care what you say to my face, you viper! Retract this, or I'll cram it down your throat!

MARCIA : Will you? [slaps newspaper out of Dominique's hand]

For those of us who are in Brian Cox withdrawal.

That looks awful r75. I feel like Cox has been shortchanged in his career with lack of quality material.

Brian Cox has had a wonderful and storied long career, r76. he has mostly been a stage actor, and has played the full Shakespearean repertoire, from Orlando to Richard III to Titus Andronicus to Petruchio to his famous Lear.

I don't think there's any need to feel sorry for him because of any dearth of great roles to play.

FUCK OFF AND GO EAT YOUR MCDONALDS, R76!

Brian Cox will star in "Long Day's Journey...." on the West End with Patricia Clarkson next year. The rumor is that they were after La Streep.

R58 - there has been much commentary on DL about the sexual nature of Tom and Greg's relationship, with 99% of the sexual tension coming from Tom

Greg, I’m not some beaaaasst!

Tom is so fucking weird.

I could see him trying it on with Greg. Anything to stay in the Roy family at this point I guess.

I wonder how they came up with the surname “Wambsgans”…

Tom is a freak, and I love it!

Tom looks like Jim Nabors

Tom’s namesake:

[quote] I could see him trying it on with Greg. Anything to stay in the Roy family at this point I guess.

I admit I thought that much more in the first season. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him have really angry sex with Greg after that big fight with Shiv. He does need an outlet of some kind.

"Wambsgans/Wambsganss" is a German name--Tom is from a city largely settled by Germans (i.e. St. Paul, MN).

What's funny too is that Tom is a Cornell graduate whose mother appears to be a successful lawyer back in St. Paul and I'd assume his father also had a white collar job of some sort.

But the Roys treat him like he was the help

Rava Roy is such a plain Jane. How do women like these snare billionaires?

Connor may have met Rava either at Harvard or at business school.

r89, the Trumps notwithstanding, most educated heterosexual men are not wholly consumed with the idea of marrying women with big tits and big hair.

I have a friend who just came up with a theory that seems plausible. Since Greg has "sold his soul" and is now an empty, soulless killing machine (lol) happy to fire anyone at anytime, he is going to end up firing Tom. Like, Matsson will hold onto Greg, whom he respects now, and use Greg to fire Tom, who no one respects. It's the perfect tragic twist. I'm here for it.

Ugly, defiant Rava, the autistic son, and adopted Indian daughter are part of Kendall's deep failure/beta aura. He is not Logan, who at least married two white women- and one an English aristocrat who defers to his will (big come up for Scots trash), and later sophisticated, age appropriate Marcia. And produced three presumably functional sons and an attractive, very Scottish looking girl- all HIS.

Great. Now I’m hot for ancient baseball player Bill Wambsganss.

I’d like to see Connor win out, just for the absurdity of it all.

r92 I'm pretty sure Rava is Israeli and the dark girl is supposed to be Arabella Kushner right? Did they just make her Indian or has she always been Indian?

I thought it was his bio-daughter.

According to Google, "Rava" is a made-up name.

It means something in Esperanto and is a little-used boy's name in Hebrew and French. (That's random--the Hebrew and French names are not related)

I also thought she was possibly Jewish.

The dark-skinned girl is definitely adopted - the writers are mocking Madonna and Angelina Jolie and other celebs who adopt dark-skinned children.

It's to make fun of how Kendall thought it was all noble and that he'd get some good press out of it.

R94, is he the Bran Stark of the show or is Greg?

Really wish they could keep the show going. Pointless without the old man though I guess.

I don't think it would have been pointless at all, R99.

It's called "Succession," not "Cranky Old Megalomaniac."

Have you noticed there has never been a sex scene in the show. Not in 4 seasons. That's certainly not how a soap would do it.

R79-La Streep will do it when the show arrives on Broadway.

I know he gets a lot of shit for his "method" acting, but Jeremy Strong comes across as humble and sensitive in this interview. It's hard not to like him.

R103 my partner got to meet him at an event and said he was just that, humble and friendly. I love what he did with that character, such pathos.

And you know, maybe you’re right, R100. Let’s keep it going. I want to see Kendall turn into his father only more ruthless, like Michael Corleone.

MINI-SPOILERS

*

*

*

Tonight's episode, "America Decides," is set on Election Day and is nearly another "bottle" episode, because most (apparently not all) of it takes place in the ATN headquarters, as Tom tries to manage a chaotic newsroom and the Roy siblings (absent Connor again) try to figure out what the election results will mean for them.

I saw what looked like Tom, Greg, and someone else running in the preview. Maybe Tom and Greg will get into the actual panic room this time and not just the snack room where a small child could slip in through the window above the door!

Curious who will win the election in their world.

Counted 11 “yeah”s so far

If there was a drinking game ‘take a shot for every yeah’, there’d be a lot of alcohol poisoning going on.

I really, really don’t need a replay of November 2016.

Yeah count - 18

It’s a yeahnami - 30.

I quit counting.

No! Keep going.

Who says it the most? Greg or shiv I’m guessing.

Update: 36 yeahs so far.

I predict 52 at the end of the episode.

You're being too conservative, R52.

R116^ I meant.

Did shiv tell Tom she’s pregnant yet?

Did Roman make out with Mencken?

Is Con a contender? Or is he still at <1%?

Is Mattson hanging around?

Connor was running for President?

Increasingly unfocused.

R119

Yes

Unknown

He conceded

Yes and he and Shiv are going to put the screws to Mencken

Thanks r122. How’d Tom take the pregnancy news? Did it get him and shiv back together?

My feeling is that, after this latest betrayal on Tom's part, Shiv will abort.

R123 He basically asked her if she was making it up. Just what every pregnant women wants to hear. Bad move, Tom.

Going from her dad’s funeral to the abortion clinic. I could see it.

Do we know for sure Mencken has won? ATN called it for him, but that means nothing in thsid ay and age.

I hope the Proud Boys don't watch this series, we don't want them getting any ideas about starting a fire to burn ballots.

It seems like a redo of 2000 where everything depended on one state.. It took the Supreme Court to decide it.

R127 We don't know but this is Succession world.

I think the ending is going to be massively disappointing. And very open ended. Oh well.

Was there a big, shocking thing that happened this episode like Jesse Armstrong said there was?

Shiv got caught lying to and screwing over her brothers, Mencken was declared the winner, and white nationalists got a playbook for 2024.

Christ! The pace and Intelligibility of tonight’s dialogue is at its worst. Dizzying. I keep closed caption on to help understand what the hell they’re talking about.

I’d like to know how much of this dialogue is ad lib, and/ or noted on countless cue cards spread across the set.

Also, Tom is a piece of shit. I’ve said it from season one, episode one. Never liked him. And, he’s a big prissy closet queen.

It was a little on the nose with sappy music, but suspenseful. Not sure how they wrap up this show in two episodes.

Damn them for making relive 2016 again...

Sarah Snook apparently thought there was going to be a fifth season after reading the script for the finale.

Fox News was largely responsible for Trump's win so it's hardly surprising that Mencken won with ATN's help.

R136 That’s why I didn’t watch it this week. Total Mary! move, I know, but I don’t want to feel like I did in 2016 again, even for a fictional show. Too stressful, depressing, and infuriating.

This episode made me physically ill. PTSD from 2016

What betrayal/piece of shit move did Tom do this week?

Whatever it was probably got him banned from Logan’s funeral. I didn’t see him in the preview.

Or they made him stay back at ATN just because they don’t like him.

On a lighter note, the wasabi scene was a riot. Greg is a clumsy douche bag. Everything he touches turns to shit.

R142 That was hilarious especially when Greg added citrus to his eyes.

The balls on Greg to threaten to blackmail Shiv with his “silence is golden” bs. She slapped that green giant down to the floor in two seconds. Lol

Greg got wasabi in his eyes? Nice.

The preview for ep. 9 is equally dark in tenor. The earth has split open revealing a spiral stairway to hell

Roman the Showman is gonna crash and burn.

Mattson looks hot in his pajamas. The low lighting in his bedroom is perfect.

Which ended up being a dumb decision not to buy Greg's silence r144, he was happy to betray her to Kendall.

I was hoping against hope we were going to get something more homoerotic between Roman and Mencken but no such luck, should have known this show has always been very hetero during it's run.

I think the finale will have Roman as the boss with the other siblings vowing to topple him from the throne. I think the youngest Murdoch son won the battle so it would be a realistic ending.

What do you think is going to happen with Mattson, R151?

Roman has always been cocky, but tonight, he took it to the next obnoxious level. To me, he has become increasingly unwatchable.

I always thought Alexander Skarsgaard was good looking, but he never really did anything for me until this season of Succession. His Matsson is so hot! Especially the black outfit on his plane. With bare feet. Woof.

R153 Agreed. He's jumped the shark. I had some empathy with him before but between the firings and this shit, I'm done with him. He's a dark motherfucker.

Roman was completely in character tonight, if you were surprised by his actions you haven't been paying attention. Of course he wants his fascist buddy to win, did people miss last season.

Useless and condescending comment @R156. Thanks, for adding a big zero to the conversation.

R155 and he knows it! I think he’s going to go off script during his eulogy for his dad. I can’t wait to hear what he says.

Most likely they will say the board meeting has been postponed for three months and then it will end. The show never resolves anything.

Shiv should get that abortion now. But since she told Tom I think she’ll keep it.

However, maybe his reaction and the election results, and Greg snitching have changed her mind and she’ll do it as a big old fuck you to everyone. .

Just a few episodes ago Tom warned Siobhan about keeping her options open. Tom may be a striving, parochial hick, but he is a much more astute business politician than his wife.

I thought he was being sarcastic and talking about her options of men? Lukas, Nate, him, someone else. Maybe I misread that scene.

So, Roman is a greedy right wing Nazi, Kendall is an undecided with a conscious, and Shiv is a greedy liberal Democrat. Oy.

Anyone who thinks Roman has never been depicted this unsympathetically before missed the series's pilot.

Remember when he offered a young working-class boy a check for $1 million for hitting a home run, only to tear up the check in front the boy after he loses the game? Roman has always been a monster.

I thought there may have been some personal growth with him especially this season. He hasn’t seemed as bad.

But I’m kind of glad Jesse Anderson didn’t write him as being ‘good’ now. He has said that people don’t change, and Roman still is that same little asshole. Good. These people aren’t meant to be liked.

He’s really in villain territory now. I like it.

Greg will reign. Trust.

He’s gonna push Tom down the stairs now. Then do something goofy. Then reign.

If Logan was still alive, would he push for a Mencken win? Or let it play out fairly?

Roman was probably just acting like how he thought his dad would. He wants to be the new Logan.

“Nothing matters. Dad's dead, and the country is just a big pussy waiting to get fucked."

That about sums it up.

I'm pretty sure Amir is about to make a big move and win it all.

What's the name of the actor who plays the hot ATN anchor? Not the (also super hot) one who plays Tucker Carlson but the tan one. I've seen him in other shows before but I can't remember where.

Gerri

This show is going nowhere. Dozens of loose ends.

If the final shot of the series isn't Greg in charge, putting his feet up on the desk, then they will have ruined the whole narrative.

I'm kidding. It's something the Noah Wyle/Carter stans used to post incessantly about ER, everywhere it was discussed.

I'm glad Lady Caroline, the three younger children's horrible mother, will be back next episode for Logan's funeral. Perhaps we'll also finally see Connor's mother, or get a fuller accounting of what happened to her to get her sent to the nuthouse, and also find out what really happened to Logan's sister Rose (which has been alluded to but never explained).

There were sprinklings of 2000 and 2020 as well, besides 2016. It was a mash-up of every "controversial" election of recent memory.

Roman is purely self-interested, IMO. He'll mouth the lines and the ATN talking points, but I'm not sure he really gives a shit about social issues (the way Siobhan does for her side), except insofar as he knows they will play well for Mencken, and Mencken is the guy who furthers his own interests of money and power. He doesn't imagine that he and his small circle will suffer any fallout from the election of a fascist to the country's highest office. He sees them as high above. When Kendall brought up the pushing incident with Sophie, look at how he batted it aside. "But she's fine, right?" He probably does care about his niece, but oh, so what, she didn't even get skin her knee. That she isn't "fine" over it in other ways -- not on his radar.

R176–see r169

Some of us were thinking something awful would happen on election night. In order to show the real world damage ATN does. But, it seems like they're going the subtle route. Ken's daughter and Ex wife think he's scum for running a network that supports a Nazi, shit like that. No one will be harmed in a riot or anything, it seems.

Tonight’s episode proved everyone except maybe Willa is a dirtbag (even though her “lunch in Vienna” line didn’t paint her in the best light). While I’m sure some people are being set up to fail spectacularly (Roman), I do believe evil will triumph in the end…just like in real life.

The election on tonight's episode was much more 2000 than it was 2016.

Next week:

Shiv falls into Logan’s open grave and miscarries.

Tom gets both figuratively and literally fucked by Greg.

Roman has his duck pics splayed across the internet and Mencken wants him publicly castrated.

^*dick

R101, I do remember there was a sex scene when Kendall runs back to Rava during a separation period. IIRC he goes down on her.

I just watched. the latest episode and need to watch it again because I'm a little confused. When Kendall found out Shiv lied about talking to Nate, did he also realize she had been doing a deal with Lukas behind his and Roman's backs? Help! (TIA)

[quote]Roman has always been cocky, but tonight, he took it to the next obnoxious level. To me, he has become increasingly unwatchable.

Prediction: next week's episode looks to be very Roman-centric. I predict he kills himself, but not before trying to destroy his sibs

Yes he did R184. He asked Greg about it and Greg was obviously very happy to betray Shiv. This is showing the piece of shit he has become over those seasons.

As for Ken, I found it fascinating to see how he froze when he was asked to call the election for Mencken. You could see he was unable to make such a decisive decision, either way. It was another illustration he simply isn’t cut for the CEO-ship. Roman showed a very dark and cynical side. He’s now utterly unlikeable. As for Shiv, she got out manoeuvred. Again, not as smart as she thinks she is. These 3 siblings are amateurs. Matsson to the rescue please!

[quote]He asked Greg about it and Greg was obviously very happy to betray Shiv. This is showing the piece of shit he has become over those seasons.

He has become a piece of shit, but there are better examples than that. Shiv's "I will kill you" intimidation approach with him earlier in the episode was wrong for the situation. Once again, a Roy sibling tries to channel Dad and fails miserably.

I don’t think Roman’s going to kill himself but I do think he’s going to be humiliated on a vast scale.

R186: Thank you for clarifying!

[quote]He asked Greg about it and Greg was obviously very happy to betray Shiv. This is showing the piece of shit he has become over those seasons

I'd say it's more showing Shiv's blunder. Greg tried to get Shiv to cut a deal and she misjudged the situation and refused to consider Greg as someone to take seriously, that bit her in the ass.

I agree r180. Everyone is talking about the 2016 election, but really the way this played out with voting irregularities in a crucial swing state but networks calling it even though we don't actually know who won the state because of those voting irregularities was most reminiscent of 2000 election. The 2016 election was much more straight forward.

I wouldn’t trust Greg to honor a deal if I was shiv. If she did make a deal, do you think Greg would lie to Kendall if Kendall asked Greg what he knew? I wouldn’t trust Greg as far as I could throw him.

She was not in a great position there.

What I don’t understand is why people are so upset watching this show when we lived through it and will live through it again next year. I find reality much more frightening than a television show

Absolutely cackling at the fact that Connor ended up choosing my country for ambassadorship after all, for the exact reason I mentioned here last week -- you can be anywhere in a jiff.

Did they seriously fire Cyd, only to replace her with a Jeannie Berlin lookalike? That is hilarious!

Shiv getting busted at the most inopportune moment was hard to watch. Everything conspired to make that neo-Nazi president, felt like November 2016 all over again. Chilling stuff.

I've read some comments upthread now and I agree that the 2020 election is a better comparison, what with all that voting fuckery. But the 2016 one is also apt, if only for that chilling realisation that the fascist won.

*the 2000 election, that is

Tom is so screwed. He's the company scapegoat for this mess and no one will ever hire or respect him .

Unless Greg takes over Waystar and Tom becomes his underling and the tables are turned on him and he has to be the one to fetch coffee and be the brunt of Greg's cruel "jokes".

It's useless to speculate, but I've thought about what different world it would have been if Gore had held on in 2000. Iraq not invaded in such stupid and destructive way. Carbon emissions maybe actually lowered early enough to save a part of the planet. Supreme Court more aligned to our constitution and not filled with Christianist rightists.

So why was last night's episode so difficult to watch? "Trigger" is a word used too much, but its tension and car-wreck-in-slo-mo horror was triggering - both 2000 and 2016.

I wish Americans could disagree with each other, but also carefully, intelligently, courteously compare ideas about how to make a better future... Succession reminds me why that's not possible.

I’d be very surprised if Tom is still head of ATN at the end of all this.

No one is going to fight for him to keep his job.

Given almost every episode undoes the resolution of the week before, i would doubt Jeryd Mencken has been called the new president by the other networks.

They made a point that Wisconsin can’t certify with outstanding absentee ballots. I’d have to rewatch to figure out the math, but I bet Mencken doesn’t win with Wisconsin electors left out.

My issue with Succession is that it feels cobbled together from other HBO prestige shows. The Newsroom, Succession, and Veep, all hit similar narrative beats and seem cut from the same world cloth. Rich, asshole whites, snarky dialogue, expensive clothing, luxury spaces, politics and big business in bed together, meddlesome billionaires and their D.C puppets. We get it.

The HBO executives keep asking their creatives to remix the same formulas that can appeal to their core customer base (rich, white, educated liberals who make over $100k / yr) until a previous show that underperformed and ran less than 4 seasons begets an Emmy winning hit for Best Drama, Best Comedy, and Best Miniseries. Home Boring Office.

Tom is fucked. Did you see how they put his dumb face up on the screen as The One who called Mencken? This WILL come back to fuck him in the ass. He's toast.

The HBO brand is shows that appeal to upper middle class professionals who live on the East Coast or California and always has been.

R204, not always.

R204 Yeah, like True Blood. Oh... wait...

[quote]I hope the Proud Boys don't watch this series, we don't want them getting any ideas about starting a fire to burn ballots.

I hate that this is where my mind immediately went as well.

People realize a show that being set somewhere doesn't mean it is appealing to viewers there...? Most HBO shows are popular in coastal cities and not popular in rural America. That is their brand, that is where their subscriber base comes from.

A show like Somebody Somewhere is exactly the type.of material that is going to be popular with the type of coastal viewer that loves going to small indie dramas at their local art house theater.

Roman is beyond repulsive, and Kieran should win the Emmy.

Cox should withdraw his name for Emmy consideration for this season.

Cox has already announced he is still going to submit for Lead Actor like he has in the past.

If Cox does win it'll be for his past work on the show.

Kieran definitely deserves lead over cox or Jeremy strong.

Think Greg or Connor will get a supporting nomination? Matthew McFadyen would win between them for sure. He’s been great this year. Tom is awful but I don’t outright hate him. He’s a very interesting character.

Cox needs to get a grip and take a seat. And a bow. This is Kieran's year for the Lead Actor Emmy.

McFayden has dominated this cast, easily.

If Tom gets fired, do you think he has any blackmail material stowed away? Maybe whatever was on that folder he had Greg delete after Logan died?

I bet he takes a huge payout and leaves and can never work for Waystar or GoJo again.

Do we know if Greg ever actually deleted that folder? They never showed him doing that on the show.

Matthew MacFayden already won the supporting actor emmy last year r213. He has a great chance of doing it again.

Strong, Cox, and Culkin will all be in lead actor. Strong has won before for Succession, so he would likely be the winner.

Maybe Greg made a copy for himself and then deleted it. It worked out well for him in the past, no reason to believe he wouldn’t think of himself again.

It’s a smart move, really.

This is my thought, R219

R202 I agree.

Yes, if Faux News called the election for Dump, and nobody else did. It certainly wouldn't make him president.

THIS ^^^^

R222, are you sure about that? I think the whole point of this episode is that it wouldn’t take that much to tip an election through media manipulation. You don’t think that’s possible?!?!? What do you think caused 1/6 then, if not media manipulation? The media is a *powerful* force, particularly when they are no guardrails, and when there are bad players in control. Roman really is like Lachlan.

But January 6 wasn't a democratic election, R224. It was just a giant hick flash mob.

You can influence peoples' actions, but no one can influence the outcome of an election just by saying out loud who they want to win. If only.

Even if ATN doesn't care about fairness, Jimenez fucking does. The voters who voted for him do. There will be actions taken. Law suits, revotes. ATN aren't God. This is part of the hubris of the Roy siblings that that they think they are.

Recount!

It is foolish, trying to dramatize fictionally what happened in 2000, 2016, or 2020. We all lived through that, and there is not anything additional that the show brought to that scenario.

The tension is missing in the absence of Logan and Mattson.

R225 Mmmm. It's a TV show, right?

R215 - I'd like Tom to dominate me, that's for sure. In my dreams, also for sure.

OT but Matthew McFadyen's wife Kelley Hawes is a brilliant actor. If you haven't seen her work, check her out in Line of Duty and (for comedy) The Durrells in Corfu.

Tom Nichols discusses his experience on his stint as a talking head.

Shiv will be out for blood now. Women like that take their politics more seriously than ANYTHING.

The "yeah?" thing at the end of a sentence instead of "okay?" is quite the little affectation. There's a guy I know, a fairly successful screenwriter (and kind of a douchebag) who's been doing it forever. He's from New Jersey, but I always figured he thinks it makes him sound sophisticated.

[quote]no one can influence the outcome of an election just by saying out loud who they want to win

Well, except for William Rehnquist's Supreme Court.

HA! You made me snort r233.

The political angle of this show is the most implausible. The GOP was beholden to many billionaires in the shadows, including the Kochs and others I can't think of now. The media is just one factor. I also think that Frank, Gerri, and Karl are not realistic. At the top of an organization like that, there will be at least a few ruthless and highly competent players. Those three are just as ineffectual as the Roy kids.

The first half of the season was a blur of "Yeah, umm.... sure, ok." With Shiv and Roman pulling faces. I'm ready for it to end.

R235 Remote, in your hand. Either button or voice controlled: humans control their media, not the other way around. Don't watch.

The nexus between MAGA and FOX leading up to 2016 is still not completely understood, but the way each potentiated the other is historic. One factor? Sure - Russian disinformation and Cambridge Analytics and and and.... but the role of FOX is/was real.

[quote] I also think that Frank, Gerri, and Karl are not realistic. At the top of an organization like that, there will be at least a few ruthless and highly competent players. Those three are just as ineffectual as the Roy kids.

I agree with this. Who is ATN's Roger Ailes? Jeannie Berlin's character? She barely gets enough screen time on the series to register.

The problem with shows like Succession's depiction of the hard right (and this is true for House of Cards, The Newsroom, The West Wing, .etc) is that they never show how genuinely grotesque the Republican party is in this country. Most of the time, the right-wing characters are no different than the liberals: they're equally witty and charismatic but hardly the ruthless mothers like Mitch Mcconnell, Desantis, or Trump.

*monsters not mothers!

Wow, Shiv is showing some serious moon face. According to Vanity Fair, she told an interviewer at the premiere of season 4 that she was 7 months pregnant. Quite possible she has given birth by now.

Has anyone yet mentioned the idea of a prequel? Logan's hardscrabble youth in Scotland, ruthless career climb, all the wives - Connor's fragile NY society mom, the brittle English aristocrat....there could be a whole subplot on the life of the mysterious Marcia. The role would be a real star-maker for the right actor, as for Brian Cox.

I absolutely hated the episode on a visceral level, but it was well written and acted. It gave me PSTD for election nights going back to Bush v Gore. If that’s what they were going for, they succeeded with me.

Every last Roy family member is vile, and I hope an asteroid hits the funeral. That’s my fantasy ending.

PTSD^

I'm telling 'ya, Greg is a variation on Verbal Kint/Keyser Sose.

Seriously, I don't know if I'm joking or serious with that.

I'll leave the deeper analysis of Succession to others.

I'll stick to pointing out the obvious and observe that, just like "The Guiding Light" or "As the World Turns" story arcs did, a funeral (or wedding) provides the scenario for a climactic event.

^ And that's not a knock on Succession. I'm enjoying it.

In the real world, Jerri, Frank and Karl would have been forced out to retirement 10 years ago.

^mothers works.

Where was Gerri this past episode? I didn’t see her in the watch party with Frank and Karl.

R240, I'm done with prequels, sequels, etc. Let's have some more original content. There is no young actor who could match Brian Cox's Logan so it would be a letdown.

I do have to say though that I loved the “prequel” episodes they did during the last season of BOARDWALK EMPIRE. It went back to the 1880s and 1890s and showed the audience some of the backstory we’d been hearing about in the present-day (1920s) storyline. It was very good.

[quote] [R235] Remote, in your hand. Either button or voice controlled: humans control their media, not the other way around. Don't watch.

Or I can watch and register my opinions here, like everyone else.

[quote] The nexus between MAGA and FOX leading up to 2016 is still not completely understood, but the way each potentiated the other is historic. One factor? Sure - Russian disinformation and Cambridge Analytics and and and.... but the role of FOX is/was real

Yes, Fox is "one factor," but it's not the only factor. Succession implies that one right wing network decides the president. That's obviously simplistic. Simplicity wouldn't bother me if the characters were more compelling. The Thick of It overstated the role of the media and communications in politics, but the figure of Malcolm Tucker was interesting in a way, to me, the Roy siblings aren't.

^ Malcolm may have been more compelling because, even though he was a foulmouthed nut (and pretty funny, in my opinion), he seemed competent. The Roys are like children playing dress up; none of them are equipped to run a multinational corporation, especially Shiv, despite their own opinions to the contrary.

Malcolm Tucker was based on Alastair Campbell, who was a foulmouthed nut and very, very good at his job.

Thank you R252. I will look up Alastair Campbell. I really did love "The Thick of It." I will now have to find it to hopefully stream it again.

For those interested, The Thick of It streams on Amazon Prime, Britbox and Roku. I am going to watch it again tonight.

Campbell does a very good podcast mostly on British politics with Rory Stewart an ex Tory MP. I think it's called the rest is politics. Obviously Iraq tarnished his reputation irreparably but he is quite sensible and charming. None of the Tucker-esque swearing on the Podcast though.

Thanks, I will check it out!

R247 Not everyone is in every episode. Case in point, Karolina. Gerri is building her case against Roman. They'll likely deal with it in the finale, if at all. Only two episodes left and it still feels like a lots of filler. The show has been spinning its wheels since the GoJo retreat.

It seems to me all of them are on their way down.

*Shiv's brothers don't trust her now they know she was Matsson's agent, and Matsson will almost certainly betray her right back.

*Rava is likely going to get Kendall in HUGE trouble for having their limo followed, which is probably against the terms of their divorce agreement

*Roman is likely going to make a huge ass of himself at the funeral, and Gerri already has him by the balls with the sexts

*Tom is almost certain to be the fall guy for calling the election too early (since he was fingered for that on the PGN screen).

I doubt we will ever know who really wins the presidential election, since Pam (Cyd Peach's lookalike standing in for her at ATN on election night) told Kendall that if ATN called it too early (which it in fact did), the election would then go on for at least three months in the courts before it was settled.

[quote] Where was Gerri this past episode? I didn’t see her in the watch party with Frank and Karl.

Gerri told us last week she's out at Waystar Royco for good even though Roman told her he had just been kidding her about firing her. She is demanding a huge settlement and a flattering narrative surrounding her exit, or else she'll accuse Roman publicly of sexual harassment and show the world his sexts. We will be unlikely to see her at the Waystar offices ever again, although i am sure we will see her in the final two episodes (most likely at Logan's funeral).

This documentary is very interesting watching, for those who are big fans of The Thick of It:

[quote]Matsson will almost certainly betray her right back.

As was mentioned upthread, I think there's a possibility that Matsson is playing 3-dimentional chess. The short numbers on Indian subscribers.... was leaked to the Roys. Matsson groomed Shiv to be his inside spy... and then, inexplicably, included Greg... and leaked Shiv's kompromat with him, knowing that he'd leak it to the brothers. I think he's the New Boss, same as the Old Boss... the Roys are soon to be trampled beneath his lovely Scandinavian feet.

^^ dimensional

They have a lot to wrap up in two episodes.

There's a bonus episode in the works.

Yeah, I think Matsson wants all three Roy kids gone, but he’ll keep Greg.

Greg will make out alright in the end.

Maybe they’ll be a scene opposite the one in season 1 episode 3 on Greg’s first day of work when he couldn’t get past the front desk security and he called to Tom for help and Tom waved, said ‘hey’, and kept walking by but this time Tom won’t be able to get in (b/c he’s fired) and he’ll call Greg but Greg will be like ‘hey, bye.’ Greg’s big dog now.

I'm just hoping someone bites the dust in the last episode. I'd love to see either Shiv or Tom shove the other one off the balcony.

Team Greg here.

Ugh. Greg is a weasel.

R266 if someone’s gonna go, I’ll say Roman. Pills probably.

A shove off the balcony would be remarkable but unlikely.

The “security issues with Kendall’s kids” story is going somewhere. No other reason to mention it twice in one episode.

R358 that’s bad writing…since the Constitution and federal law would not allow things to drag on. There are hard and fast dates which must be adhered to, as is well-known after the past several elections.

*R258

I think Kendall will be killed in a confrontation with someone anti-Mencken.

[quote]Rava is likely going to get Kendall in HUGE trouble for having their limo followed, which is probably against the terms of their divorce agreement

I think the point of that was that this is Kendall's idea of being a good father (flexing his power and wealth by adding security), when Rava wanted him to talk directly to their daughter and be present for her. I doubt he's going to get in trouble for it; it's just an illustration of what he himself says to Shiv (?) later in the episode about how the "poison drips through." There have been so many examples this season of the kids acting like Logan, trying to be Logan, being told they're not Logan. If anything, it's accelerated since the old man kicked it.

I’m a Logan too!

[quote] Did they seriously fire Cyd, only to replace her with a Jeannie Berlin lookalike? That is hilarious!

I know there was talk of firing Cyd, but did someone on the show confirm it happened? I love Jeannie Berlin and wish she had been on the show more.

No ones answered my question yet! r171

Possibly Danny Cevallos, R277? He played one of ATN's on-air people in this episode. Most of the time, he's a lawyer and news pundit.

If not, I'd have to look. The only other male one I recall is the Ravenwood actor, and you said you don't mean him.

r278 No the guy I'm thinking of is a regular on HBO. He plays the generic all-american hot guy in a lot of shows.

^Nevermind I finally remembered it's Dave Briggs. I used to jerk off to him every morning on Fox and Friends. Mystery r171 solved!

R274 Seems to have been to give Kendall serious pause about ATN's political bent – the poor little girl being harassed etc. Bit hard to believe, since he has paid only perfunctory attention to those kids throughout the run of the show.

How realistic was it for Kendall to go all Darth Vader suddenly after all the lip service about wanting to change the conversation, be a force for good, do things to secure a safer future for his kids, etc? And spending half of ep 8 in a thoughtful crisis of conscience? Then Shiv lies to him, and he is instantly ready to throw his daughter under the bus and join the dark side. And effortlessly abandon any and all natural convictions and inclinations? Seemed a little rushed and implausible to me. But what do I know, I'm not a tortured billionaire.

R282 But isn't that consistent with his character through the whole series? Vacillating between aggressive Alpha Male (like his Dad) and then curling up into a ball and whimpering with self-doubt, self-loathing, and a very expensive wardrobe.

So, before the end of the series we can expect him to pull back and show indecisiveness and self-pity.

I think that that -- Siobhan's betrayal -- was a decisive moment for Kendall. Siobhan was the only sibling he's really opened up to, as far back as season 2, episode 4, "Panic Room," where he cries and tells her it's not going to be him.

R282 "Then Shiv lies to him..."

and the fragile detente between the siblings in the wake of Logan's death is broken instantly. Their biggest competitors are each other. They're always trying to screw each other over, so Kendall is happy for the deed to be done (calling the election) if only to fuck Shiv.

This show is full of people who expect loyalty from other people, but offer none in return. And they are shocked when the others betray them. Kendall has backstabbed Shiv multiple times, including the previous episode. Shiv was stunned to be betrayed by Greg and by Tom (and likely Mattson), but offered them very little. Roman was stunned that Logan betrayed his kids, even as they were trying to unseat him.

Make HBO gay again! When's the last time we had a real gay show with some real male frontal nudity and some hot gay sex from the network? True Blood, Six Feet Under, Sex and the City, and the holy grail, Oz, were all ages ago. Everything else is either non-existent or gives it to you as a brief C-plot.

R287 wait for The Shards.

[quote] This show is full of people who expect loyalty from other people, but offer none in return. And they are shocked when the others betray them.

This comes from growing up in a dysfunctional /abusive family where everything is a secret from the outside world.

My dad would behave like a normal person in the outside world and an absolute monster at home. It was understood (and even stated explicitly) that it would be a disaster if people found out what went on at home.

When you grow up like that, divulging secrets is the worst thing you can do. The Roy kids were probably similarly raised and figure no one is going to do that. But they do, of course.

R288, are they adapting that to television?

While Kendall is in high dudgeon over Shiv’s “betrayal,” he’s planning the “Reverse Viking” move without telling his siblings. Maybe they’ll all kill each other in the end.

R261 - I love this idea. Currently, Mattson is my favorite remaining character. I simply find it difficult to believe he would be that sloppy regarding the over-inflated numbers, and the leaking of that info to Greg/Shiv. I think (hope) that's merely his long-game strategy. This show needs more Machiavellian flavor.

Kendall is a real dick, and always has been. We lose sight of this because he’s also such a weak, whiny pussy.

Oh, dear. Matsson, not Mattson.

I ordered extra wasabi at lunch today.

That wasabi scene was like watching The Three Stooges. Hysterical.

[quote]Make HBO gay again! When's the last time we had a real gay show with some real male frontal nudity and some hot gay sex from the network?

We tried to give you "Looking" and commit to a show all about gay men, but all you gays did is bitch about it.

Because it was not good, R297.

Succession had a burgeoning gay storyline in season 1, with Lawrence and his HOT boyfriend, but they disappeared the hot boyfriend.

[quote] [R274] Seems to have been to give Kendall serious pause about ATN's political bent – the poor little girl being harassed etc. Bit hard to believe, since he has paid only perfunctory attention to those kids throughout the run of the show.

I strongly disagree it's hard to believe.

Kendall has given Sophie and Iverson only perfunctory attention throughout the series, true; but we also have learned repeatedly how much that weighs on his conscience. Remember how devastated he was last season (for example) when he could not find what Iverson had given him for his birthday party because it was lost among all the gifts from people who mean nothing to him?

The writing has been consistent that Kendall is a shitty, inattentive parent (from the first season, Rava was always trying to get him more involved in the kids' lives), but that he knows this about himself and feels awful about it because he genuinely loves them at some level. But his own parents were so awful and inattentive that he constantly replicates the patterns they established, putting his own immediate needs consistently before their long-term needs the way his own parents did.

THIS R300!!

Remember a couple times in the series Logan has said "Everything I do, I do for my children" ? It's such bullshit. Does he really believe that? Does it make good copy? We never got to find out. We know it's not true though. And here's Kendall saying the same thing to Rava. "I'm doing all of this for the children." It's utter tosh. But Kendall is more awake and aware than Logan, and he struggles in his conscience with the falsity of his assertion. He even told Shiv this last episode "I'm a terrible father." And he's right. Logan would have never admitted that he was a shit dad to himself let alone anyone else. Kendall is more self-aware and tortured.

And yet................

He just cannot break the cycle.

Some LONG thoughtposts here

Some long posts lacking thoughtfulness

[quote]Yes he did [R184]. He asked Greg about it and Greg was obviously very happy to betray Shiv. This is showing the piece of shit he has become over those seasons.

Greg warned Kendall way back in season one: he sees and knows all, and anyone would be wise to keep him close. He skillful when it comes to obtaining information and using it to his advantage. I noticed after Shiv's big, final fight with Tom, Greg was lurking in the background as she, Kendall, and Roman discussed "killing" Tom. Greg 100% went running to Tom with that heads-up. It probably explains why Tom treated Shiv as if she was invisible the rest of the episode, not to mention Greg's glee at throwing her under the bus at the end.

[Quote] … not to mention Greg's glee at throwing her under the bus at the end.

Shiv should retaliate and throw me under Greg. That’ll learn him.

I want Greg to fuck my ass.

^Roman

^Ravenhead

[quote] I want Greg to fuck my ass.

Okay, but at the moment I am spatchcocking a chicken.

Oh god—go away

To whom do you speak, R310?

R310?

It’s been summoned!

What will our Greg make for the viewing party for the penultimate episode?

r314, please stop referring to celebrities you fancy as "our [XXX]."

It's really gross and frauish, and it make you sound as creepy as the Paul Mescal stalker.

If you blinked, you missed it, but that smile Greg gave Shiv for a fraction of a second after he ratted her out to Kendall was an F. U. moment. I played it back twice. Shiv was completely beside herself after that. I would think she’d retaliate somehow.

Thank you, R315, but I am quite fine being referred to as “our Greg.”

R316 she’ll make sure Tom is fired so Greg can’t work with his bff anymore.

R314 he won’t make anything. He’ll bring the leftover pizza from the ATN break room. They have boxes of it (and it doesn’t microwave that well so he doesn’t want it).

And maybe some weed.

R315 - I was referring to Greg the datalounge poster as opposed to Greg the character.

Exactly, R298. R297 Looking was so annoying. Had the main character been more interesting and stuck with his hot latino boyfriend from the bus then maybe the show would've been worth sticking with, but the writers insisted on getting in the way. It wanted to be Weekend as a tv show, but that movie was bit overrated and part of the charm of a hook up is that it's temporary.

Hunting Season was better in delivering what gays want: copious amounts of male nudity and gay sex. It's not that hard... but it could've been. Looking didn't have the balls to be truly gay for the fags watching, but was also too navel gazing for straights semi-curious about gay life. Thus, it pleased no one, got low viewership, won no awards for playing it safe, and got canceled.

Hoe's Busted Orifice

What is Hunting Season?

[quote]A shove off the balcony would be remarkable but unlikely.

Balcony yes, but I want a full Lexi Featherston for Roman.

R322 What Looking failed to be. A Sex and the City meets Queer As Folk comedy web-series that ran for 2 seasons and 12 episodes. Way more explicit and fun than try-hard mainstreamer, Looking.

Enjoy!

R316 yup, he definitely did smile at shiv. First he shrugged, then did a double eyebrow raise and a big smile. She shouldn’t have threatened to pull his intestines out his asshole! And called him lumber.

Not a great screen cap, but here’s the smile.

Shiv is all asunder. On the outs with Tom, Kendall, and Roman. She better stick to Matsson I guess. Maybe she could win something.

That was Greg’s ‘smash-the-information-champagne-bottle-in-her-face’ moment. Vicious. I loved that smile.

Oooooh. I hadn't caught this in my original watch. Fuck that's creepy.

I hope Shiv gets Tom AND Greg thrown out on their asses.

Let’s not forget Greg was also ratting on Matsson.

If / when Matsson becomes the new boss, he might not be too happy about that.

I’m sure Matsson would have preferred to keep the information flow (Shiv) in place.

But Greg blew that up.

How mad will Matsson be at stupid-ass Greg?

R330 I still maintain Matsson used Greg, knew he'd leak info about Shiv. I think he was setting up the three siblings to fall apart and dismantle any effort to block his takeover.

Matsson is a King, if true R332

If the GoJo deal falls through, WAYSTAR stock will tank, at least temporarily.

Then Matsson can snap up a deal.

Maybe Matsson is regretting overpaying and he too wants to tank the deal.

But is the stuff about India's sub numbers true or false?

shiv = s(o,) hiv?

[quote]What will our Greg make for the viewing party for the penultimate episode?

Greg sprinkles. They're a fantastic garnish to basically anyone seated at this table.

I will NOT be making Greg sprinkles.

Greg, this thread isn’t about you. Back to Succession.

Greg *is* Succession now.

He’s the winner winner chicken dinner!

Thank you, R340!

R339, I’m not the one who asked,

[quote] What will our Greg make for the viewing party for the penultimate episode?

Nor did I mention Greg sprinkles.

Has this article about Greg been posted yet?

Great article, R342!! Thank you.

It’s paywalled for me. What’s the gist?

THE SLOW CRACKING OF GREG THE EGG

There was a time, a haircut or two ago, when Cousin Greg had major reservations about ATN, the fictional right-wing news network and flagship operation of Waystar Royco, the media empire owned by the Roy family of HBO’s “Succession.”

“It’s like — it’s kind of against my principles?” Greg stammers to Tom Wambsgans (Matthew Macfadyen), his boss and cousin-in-law.

“Your principles?” Tom purrs through an amused grin. “You don’t have principles.”

Actually, Greg explains, he’s against racism. Also? “Don’t lie. Like, if you’re the news.”

If you’ve talked to any “Succession” skeptics about why they can’t stomach the show, they might have argued that there’s no character worth rooting for. To which you might reply: What about Cousin Greg?

Callow, hapless Greg Hirsch. Born with a misshapen body (hence his family nickname, “Greg the Egg”) and a normal-shaped conscience, the gawky grandson of Logan Roy’s moralizing brother has been the closest thing viewers have to a proxy inside the Roy family.

It would be a stretch to call him the show’s moral center. When we first met Greg (Nicholas Braun), he was lying to his mom about the circumstances of his getting fired from a gig as a mascot at one of the family-owned theme parks. (He got stoned before work and then vomited through the costume’s eye holes after being beaten up by some children.) His mother asked him why, to avoid losing the job, he didn’t pull rank as a member of the extended Roy family. Greg explained that he “didn’t want to be an a--hole.”

That, at least, distinguished Greg from his cousins and the other Waystar lifers. When Greg comes to New York and joins the family business (his mom’s idea), his attempts to work the angles of the corporate world are endearingly pathetic. Greg might not have been a good person, he wasn’t obviously a bad person. You mostly felt embarrassed for him, which was not quite the same as rooting for him. “Relatable” is not quite the word, but the fact that he appeared so ill at ease in Royworld put him on our side.

Four seasons in, Greg the Egg has hatched into something slimy. Lately we’ve seen him brag about his ability to fire people without feeling remorse. He’s been leaning so hard into a dirtbag persona that even Tom can’t stand it. As for those principles of his — Don’t be racist. Don’t lie if you’re the news — those fell away Sunday, when Greg hand-delivered a directive to ATN’s news producers to prematurely call a presidential race for a nativist creep who refers to Adolf Hitler as “H” and envisions an America that is “clean” and “pure.”

The corruption of Cousin Greg is a sneaky-poignant subplot of “Succession,” a show populated mostly by characters who were broken long before we met them. Greg arrived at the same time we did. His induction to the Roy inner circle was kind of a twisted “Truman Show” experiment: What would happen if a more or less decent guy spent several years ensconced in a world of decadence, surrounded by beguiling scoundrels and high-functioning depressives for whom everything is not nearly enough?

How long would it take for a guy like that to stop caring about whether he was being an a--hole?

(CONT.) Greg is splayed at the stern of the family yacht, sipping from a champagne flute at an angle that requires him to lift his head as little as possible.

“What are you drinking?” Tom asks him.

“Uh, this is — I’m not sure,” Greg says. “It’s a rosé, it’s not my favorite.”

“Oh, you got a favorite Champagne now?”

“Well, you can’t help noticing. It’s fine, I’ll drink it, it’s just not my favorite.”

It’s the Season 2 finale, and Cousin Greg is growing spoiled. When they boarded the yacht, Kendall Roy (Jeremy Strong) had been slightly surprised by his cousin’s blasé reaction — a contrast to earlier in the season, when Greg got the zoomies after Kendall gifted him a gigantic Manhattan apartment.

The yacht trip comes on the heels of Greg’s initiation into a different Roy family tradition: Trying to dodge government oversight. His performance before a congressional panel, where Greg and various Roys faced questions about seedy doings in Waystar’s cruises division, produced this memorable koan: “If it is to be said, so it be, so it is.” Later, Greg — no longer in the hot seat — laments that he did not stymie the watchdogs by answering every question with, “No woman, no cry.”

Greg, in his idiot way, learned the importance of fealty to family/corporate interests. He started to look the part, too, getting his shaggy hair shaped up in attempt to curb the stress of preserving shady company secrets (“I didn’t really need a haircut, I think I just wanted someone to touch my head — you know, soothing”). He hasn’t broken bad, but he is adjusting to his material and moral circumstances.

How ‘Succession’ is — and isn’t — about Rupert Murdoch and Fox

There is, to use the show’s vernacular, a lot of static. When Logan Roy (Brian Cox) makes Kendall his fall guy for abuses in the company’s cruises division, Greg suffers an attack of conscience and aligns himself with Kendall’s rebellion. It doesn’t last. Unable to separate his interests from his anxiety, Greg spends much of the Roy civil war trying to figure out who his lawyer is. In the process he alienates his grandfather, who disinherits him.

Having burned his final bridge back to life as a shiftless kid with a trust fund, Greg returns to the Waystar fold in time to watch Kendall’s insurgency collapse. The lesson is clear enough: Stay inside the compound.

(CONT.) You can’t really get into the moral dimensions of Greg without getting into Tom. He gets a lot of the blame for corrupting Greg, and deservedly so. As the old proverb says, You can’t make a Tomlette without breaking some Greggs. But while Greg has spent the final season reveling in the person he has been allowed to become by going full Roy, Tom has been retreating toward his inner Wambsgans.

After Logan’s midflight demise, he serves as an ad hoc grief counselor to his estranged in-laws, talking them through the act of saying goodbye to their father while holding his phone to the dead man’s ear. He may not have principles, per se, but he has instincts. There’s a foundation down there, somewhere. Tom owns the rare distinction of being a character on “Succession” who definitely loves someone. That love is poorly directed, but at least we know he’s capable of it. He likes rich-people stuff, yet it’s his affection for Shiv Roy (Sarah Snook) that drives Tom to compromise.

Ah, well — no woman, no cry. Tom may be seeing the Roy family more clearly than ever, but as the head of ATN he’s still carrying their water. And Greg is still carrying his water, and also doing cocaine with him on election night.

Yes, the election! We’ll get to it in a moment. But first, let’s rewind one night earlier: Tom and Shiv’s pre-election party.

Greg is smoking a vape pen with Swedish tech bros, and telling them about the mass firings of ATN employees he has been conducting over videoconference.

“You said a hundred scalps, in three days?” says Lukas Matsson (Alexander Skarsgard), the billionaire who is trying to buy the Roys’ company. He’s impressed, and wonders if Greg feels bad afterward.

“Honestly, not really,” Greg says. He is stoned, like when we met him years ago, only now he’s in a tailored suit instead of a dog costume. And, of course, he’s on the other end of the firing stick. “HR says I’m the right guy for the job because it looks like I care but I don’t.”

“Not a good person,” says the Swede.

“No, I am. It’s just — you gotta do what you gotta do, right?”

Matsson doesn’t let Greg off the hook. “Do you, though?”

Greg has learned how to swing an ax; on election night, he figures out how to wield a knife. His dalliance with the Swedes has yielded a lethal piece of intel about Shiv, which Greg tries to use to extort her. When she refuses, he uses it to cut her throat — swinging the Roy family vote, and therefore America’s, to the right. At the behest of the Roy brothers, Tom dispatches Greg to have ATN get ready to call the election for the neo-fascist.

“I should go,” Greg tells Jess, Kendall’s assistant. “I’ll get in trouble if I don’t go.”

Jess, famously taciturn, speaks up. “Okay dude, I mean ...”

“Yeah. I mean it’s not really my choice, right? So.” The rationalizations continue. “I’m not even pressing the button, I’m asking them to prepare to press the button.”

“Right, and, all that does is, just, like, launch a nuclear attack, so ...”

“It’s not going to change anything if I don’t go, so ...”

Greg did have a choice. The problem was, he made it a few seasons ago. “Succession” is a show about people who have learned to act as if they’re in a knife fight when really they’re just carving up a cake. You gotta do what you gotta do ... Do you, though?

Answered: If it is to be said, so it be. So it is.

Fucking Greg.

Yes, I am^

You call that fucking?^

I'm not reading all of that.

I read it, it goes by quick.

Basically says Greg wasn’t all bad when he arrived in NYC (I have morals, news shouldn’t lie, I don’t want to eat whole baby birds, etc.), but a couple of years with the Roys has changed him. Not for the better.

#nosoul

Um, exsqueeze me? You know what would solve all of their problems with Matsson?

ORANGE MOCHA FRAPPUCINOS!

Skarsgard def looks better now.

It's like night and day, R354. Sooooo much hotter now.

Age definitely has been kind to him because I agree. Back then he looked too twinky.

I just rewatched the final episode of season two. Logan has fired Kendall to take the rap for the cruise line scandal. He says Kendall probably couldn’t have been the successor anyway, because he’s not a “killer.” Kendall meekly acquiesces, then proceeds to call a press conference and eviscerate his dad. Logan watches, saying nothing. The very last shot is the hint of a smile crossing his face. Sonny boy is a killer after all.

What a good show, I’m really going to miss it.

I have never really understood the role of Karolina.

She's head of PR.

Karolina is amazing, vastly underused, it’s a shame.

I know what her role is, but what is her “role”?

I agree about Karolina - it's never clear what her role is.

I suspect she is meant to show that there is a new generation of very competent underlings who are more than happy to do the Roys bidding and keep them in power

Karolina is is the person who would be in charge if life were a meritocracy.

Karolina is a “killer,” as Logan would define it. Calmly planning the post-Logan crisis communications as he lay dead a few feet away.

People love Karolina because she never says anything, allowing them to assume she’s a decent person who just happens to be a high ranking official in a world of horrible people.

Theme composer Nicholas Britell takes you through his Succession score.

Karolina is a cypher representing all of the capable people in the organization who can efficiently, effectively run that business like an actual business rather than a shrine to Logan or a vehicle of revenge. She's got her head on straight. Whereas the kids make decisions impulsively, and from an emotional place (a huge no-no in business), the Karolinas in the company can think lightening fast and make savvy decisions that have a rational basis. She's a threat to the Roy kids because she has a quick draw and she knows where all the bodies are buried. But mainly, Karolina brings the toxic, chaotic bumbling of the siblings into sharper relief.

Kendall and Roman are toast.

The open question is whether Shiv has the better, or same, outcome.

The show has taken pains to put Kendall and Roman into situations they can’t recover from.

I don’t see Shiv being the big winner either. But she doesn’t deserve to go down as hard as the other two.

In the end, Marcia and Greg get it all.

R370 I am wondering if every set up in the first one or two episodes is gonna get a payoff or get turned on its head in the finale. Such as, where once Greg was a fly buzzing around Marcia's head, he become her Number One Boy. More plausible, whereas he was Tom's little butt boy, he'll be the one making Tom get HIM coffee and cocaine.

What other early set ups might get a pay off, or get flipped around?

Only two more episodes. I read that the finale will be 90 minutes.

The Idol with Johnny Depp's daughter will be taking Succession's time slot when it's done. Too bad it's not The White Lotus Season 3.

[quote] In the end, Marcia and Greg get it all.

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

Greg, Greg, Greg!

In real life, Karolina has a decent severance package and is leaking all the shit.

I'm curious about his last will. When will we learn about it? Or was all of this already settled before he died?

I don't know why people are talking about a "winner". There is no winner in this show, Logan died on the toilet from a businesses trip when he should have been at his first borns wedding.

There is no winning for these people unless they walked away.

R367 Exactly, Karolina (PR), Gerri (General Counsel), Karl (CFO), Frank (COO), and Jess (Kendall's EA) are meant to illustrate the key forms of C-suite competency that allows Waystar/RoyCo to function and run successfully despite the mercurial Roy family members at its center mucking things up on the daily. Without these smart, capable, experienced, level-headed team members who keep the billion dollar ship moving, maintain composure during high stress situations, and who speak diplomatically when prompted to provide an opinion, the family business, much less legacy and fortune, wouldn't have much to stand on. The biggest professional assets Greg has developed and demonstrated during his corporate tutelage is to develop a keen sense of strategy to protect your position and to always hedge your words in mixed company.

Good summary R378, what I find interesting is that they have never looked at *why* they continue to work there, why they put up with the toxic environment.

For some it seems it's the best job they can get given how old they are, but Karolina seems like she could easily get a job somewhere that does not promote fascism.

R379 The large sums of money, the prestige of working for a company or institution at the top of its field, and the killer instincts that live for a challenge.

[quote] Greg, Greg, Greg!

Hello.

LOL, you think, R380?

What I meant is that it seems Karolina could easily get another job at a similarly prestigious and high-paying company with just as many challenges, all without the fascism.

It could be that she is right wing or that having worked at ATN makes her toxic to other networks.

Karolina is not a real person. She is a small supporting character on a television show. She can only do what the writers write for her to do.

In real life, Frank, Geri, Karl and Karolina would all have preexisting exit packages that would be triggered by the GoJo acquisition and pay them likely millions of dollars, and 3 of them are retirement age anyway. The worrying about their futures is nonsense, and all would be working to ensure the deal closed. No way they would let any of the kids, who are universally known as ridiculous and incompetent losers, have any leadership role and screw it up. (I know, it’s tv drama).

The true "succession" of the title is not who takes over the company, but who ends up most like dad. Who takes on the mantle of Logan Roy the man and not the businessman. And that person could well be the unhappiest of them all.

Mary!

^im probably going to be a Mary right along with him. I don’t know why I’m so invested in this stupid family, but I sometimes think about the episodes for three or four days after they air, lol. There’s some deep emotions there.

I’m glad it’s ending and I won’t have to see the Roys anymore.

Just wait for the ‘Musical Roy Christmas Special’ and ‘The Roy’s go to Hawaii’ coming out later this year.

But who will be fake Shiv?

[quote]The true "succession" of the title is not who takes over the company, but who ends up most like dad. Who takes on the mantle of Logan Roy the man and not the businessman. And that person could well be the unhappiest of them all.

YOU JUST BLEW MY MOTHERFUCKING MIND, R385

AND.......It's showtime. See you bitches in about an hour!

Discord makes my dick hord

I have a feeling Tom isn’t going to make it to the funeral. He’s gonna get trapped in ATN.

Shiv told her brothers, guess she’s keeping the kid. Probably not in her best interests.

“It’s formally inventive. That’s one of the things we love about it.”

I will miss this show.

I will miss Roman's outrageous sexual comments.

Roman’s disdain of Greg is great.

Greg of the crowning committee!

Daddy’s here! Lol, wtf. Their stepdad is awful. So is the mom.

This scene with Mattson and Shiv may be one of the saddest in the series.

No way Lukas is going to give CEO to shiv.

All Logan’s women sitting together. Perfect.

Go Kerry.

^it could be the new First Wives Club

Roast him, Ewan! This is what Logan wanted.

wow.

Another boring episode.

I knew Roman was going to break at the funeral. That pre-grieving wasn’t going to work.

Connor should’ve read his speech.

Matsson is so fine. I think Mencken *will* like a tall, blond, white guy running the company.

Shivs face when Matsson greeted Greg with a ‘hey sexy’ was funny. She seemed less angry at Greg than I thought she’d be.

Well, this is why immediate family never should give remarks about the deceased.

A

Roman held back his emotions too long and finally reached his breaking point. He'll feel relief now.

All 3 imploded on a world stage.

Connor?

Shoulda left it with Ken

Why is shiv speaking? Ken did a decent job.

‘When the sun shawn’. Sarah Snook’s Aussie accent slipped there.

I miss Logan being alive on the show. He was a force.

Colin! Logan’s best pal. Wonder what’s to become of him?

I thought Stewy would be there. Did I miss him?

Wow, Ken did a good thing for Colin.

One episode left. Nothing’s gonna get resolved. Boo.

I hope they don’t leave a cliffhanger like Roman ODs on pills or something. They have to resolve something!

Bloated and indulgent.

Only good scene is Shiv extracting Mencken.

The rest is too long and not enough.

I liked Ewan’s eulogy. Logan thinking he gave polio to his baby sister and killed her was something that shaped Logan forever. Nice touch.

I’m so over Tom and shiv. I hope they don’t get back together, but they will.

I expected Shiv to be more emotional at the funeral considering her pregnancy hormones. I went to a funeral with a pregnant woman once and put a travel pack of kleenex in my pocket just in case. She ran out and I was happy I brought them.

A really bad episode. I think the show is going out with a whimper.Killing Dad just didn’t work.

Interesting shot of the finale preview with Tom and his crew behind him walking up very confidently to the glass doors with Karl, Hugo, and probably everyone else inside. Looks like Tom will side with Shiv and Matsson against Ken and Roman. I thought for sure Tom would be kicked to the curb, and he still might, but I think shiv will want to keep him around (and employed) for the baby.

The GoJo deal still looks good to Waystar investors as far as we know right? The bogus Asian numbers didn’t hurt them if I understood correctly. And now Mencken seems to like Matsson and maybe shiv as a CEO, so it looks to be in their favor. But we all know it won’t be that easy. Ready for it to end!

Interestng that Connor was the only kid who knew about Logan's tomb.

Fucked up that the eldest son didn't even get to speak at the funeral, even though he was the one that picked out the casket and the kilt.

Pops was alive. Now he is dead. We are sad.

Kendall wasn't being nice r419. Colin knows about the waiter being killed. He was tying up a dangerous loose end with Colin off on his own talking to therapists.

R417*

I guess "wheel man" will sweep the nation now instead of pallbearer.

They’re different. Pallbearers carried the casket. Wheelman stood by the wheels in the church.

Guest actor Emmy nomination for James Cromwell? That eulogy might be enough for one. And he’s in next week’s episode as well. Big board vote. Exciting.

This episode was excellent. I have a feeling the next one will be disappointing. They always pull the football away from Shiv right before she kicks it.

Maybe they'll find that the other guy won the election.

R408, YES!!!

WASPS never have immediate family give eulogies.

What are we, a bunch of Italians?!

How could Mencken block the GoJo deal? Was it something to do with the fudged numbers? I didn’t quite follow.

One thing that could happen would be CFIUS, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, blocking the Waystar acquisition on national-security grounds.

Because that's how it works. Any large corporate merger/acquisition has to be approved by the federal government r436 because of antitrust laws.

So shiv is going in with a guy she hates and everything he stands for (Mencken) just to get a possible ceo position. She’s compromised whatever morals she once had. I don’t think Matsson/shiv is going to work out so well. And probably not for Tom if he sides with her. Or maybe he’ll get American CEO if the position still exists. Who knows. He looked ready to do business in the preview.

R438 and they weren’t worried about it if Jimenez won? Would Mencken specifically block it if they didn’t work with him on the election/ATN?

I suspect a lot of GenXers achieved a catharsis of sorts watching a horrible parent exposed for who they were via Ewan’s eulogy.

“He was mean… I try. He decided not to try any more. And it was a terrible shame.”

Kendall is nauseating when he prances around like he’s a newly formed hard ass.

SIT DOWN, you bitch!

Can someone please stick a dick in Kendall’s mouth?!

STFU, you weak-chinned mother fucker!

And he wants custody of his kids? Yeah right, dude. No way he’ll get custody.

My prediction for Tom and Shiv’s last scene: it will be in their apartment with them lying on their bed like they did at the end of Season 4 episode 1. But this time they won’t be on their backs holding hands, but on their sides facing each other and Tom will put his hand on the baby bump, and she’ll put hers on top of his, and they will smile.

The business part of their lives will probably be up in the air, but they will end the show together personally.

(At least until their next big fight which we won’t see.)

Shiv might pull off single motherhood. She’s very imperfect but the closest thing this group has to a “black sheep” who might break away from the family rot.

All I could think about while watching the funeral scene is how desperate the three actors (Culkin, Snooks and Strong) are to win an Emmy.

Jess’ new big position will be as Shiv’s nanny.

Shiv will pay a mint not to have to do diaper changing and feedings.

Or that’s why she’ll keep Tom around. To be nanny dad.

Shiv is just as power hungry as her brothers r446. She is incapable of walking away from the drama to just live alone low key life.

The kids have always been rich and could just go chill and enjoy life. But they can't, they need of validation of being seen as the leader their father was.

I give this episode a “meh” to the “shrug” to the “pfffft”.

Not my favorite at all, one if the worse episodes in this series. They just don’t feel like they know where this story is going.

It’s a dark comedy because all of these kids are incapable of being a boss and have never done anything significant. I am glad they are pulling the plug.

Tom walking like a boss at :43. Perhaps it’s he who gets the big CEO job. Mencken might like him for calling the election in his favor and have a word with Matsson (Or he’s about to get fired, could go either way!)

Shiv and maybe Roman look to be in CA. Maybe they fuck off after the board meeting. Roman’s got some facial injuries from the riot.

I need another stewy and Kendall scene. Hugs and kisses.

What’s ebba’s deal? Why did she tell Hugo anything?

The flow of information from Matsson’s team to Hugo is suspiciously fast.

I believe people of Logan snd Ewan’s generation did the best they could. And maybe did much better than I ever could under such circumstances.

But that generation’s utter failure as human beings and parents is surely a great advertisement for why we must never let the world get to that point again.

Since Kendall’s trying to be the new Logan and is poaching his people, think he’ll go for Kerry-his dad’s side piece? 😂

No way shiv would get the CEO job. Like Matsson said, she has no experience. And the pregnant thing might be a turn off. But really I can’t see Mencken backing that. He knows she’s not one of ‘his’ people.

Out of everyone we know, I think Tom has the best chances at it. He is one of Mencken’s people, a good old Midwestern boy who wasn’t born into a hugely wealthy family. He’d be a total yes man and do whatever Mencken/Matsson wanted. He wouldn’t let his morals interfere with shit. He’s not a complete moron, he has some brains. He’s not a Roy, but he was loyal to Logan. More than his kids were.

If he is chosen, shivs gonna lose her shit about being ‘betrayed’ again. She’ll never let him see his kid. That might finally kill their relationship.

That’s quite a generalization R455. First you praise them, then call their generation “Utter failures as human beings”. What the hell are you talking about?

I don’t care what kind of back room dealings are going on, Logan Roy’s funeral is not the place where Mencken would be on the day after this particular election. The whole thing is ludicrous.

I hadn’t thought of that r459, but you are totally right. They would have spaced out his funeral differently because of the election.

Greg for the win. He’s American, too.

Nah. He has no experience, no college degree, no impressive business acumen or intelligence.

But he’ll be a great assistant or guard dog or whatever. They’ll keep him around.

R462 Greg attended Waystar Amusement Park Orientation. He’s qualified.

The only staisfying conclusion would be that Mencken loses/gets blown up and Gerri takes over the company in association with Nan Pierce. Sadly, that ain't gonna happen...

I’ve found Kendall the most repulsive character the whole time— even as I was “supposed” to feel sorry for him. He’s now become an even bigger asshole.

this episode put the "suck" in succession

It was okay. It’d be even better if it wasn’t the penultimate episode of the series. There’s a lot to do next week.

I've always assumed that everyone is aware that the crass Roy kids are all losers who aren't competent in business. Are we supposed to think that any of them have some skills or respectability? Certainly not Kendall, with known substance abuse issues, after that press conference and forcing the investigation by the feds? Everyone knows Roman is a creep, right? Shiv maybe is thought of as brighter than her brothers but her only skills are as a political operative? I'm guessing that they all 'lose' next week in spectacular fashion.

^Exactly

The best ending would be both Waystar and GoJo collapse, the kids lose their fortunes, the other guy wins the election, and Geri gets her huge exit package, buys Logan's yacht at auction, and sails off into the sunset.

Did Kendall tell shiv congratulations about the baby? I know Roman was being a weirdo dick, but I can’t remember what Ken said to her in the car. Other than asking without asking if Tom was the dad.

Roman dies.

We see a brief scene of the Mexican immigrant child who he offered the $1,000,000 check to and then tore up in front of him, receive a letter from a financial institution that they are a beneficiary to one of his financial accounts.

I'm kidding. Dead, alive or in New Jersey, Roman can't be redeemed.

If you’ve been watching this series, it’s hard to miss the point that all of the Roy children have unique talents, intelligence, sharp perception, and a great deal of wit. They don’t try to be cruel or mean, unlike their father.

It is not enough. None of them have shown the ability to succeed at anything for any period of time. They feel pressured to succeed, but there are few consequences if they don’t. And they mock the people who need to make money or gain success.

This is a pretty unique take, and relevant to the privileged as well as those of us whose privilege is not as obvious as the Roy children’s.

And Kendall couldn’t even go full Sudeikis and lie in front of his wife’s car as threatened. No follow through with that guy. Not CEO material. Next.

I agree this was the weakest episode of the season but it still had great moments, especially James Cromwell’s big scene.

This season would’ve been so much better if it didn’t take place in 10 days. That’s not enough time for things to breathe.

They went from Logan dying, his wake the next day, flying to Norway, (they had to lose a day in there to travel, no? Were they in Norway two days?), flying straight to LA, back to NYC, the election eve party, the election, Logan’s funeral all in under a week? That’s insane. Tom should be more than tired, he should hardly be functional. But I guess that’s what coke and coffee is for.

We’re not going to see the endgame of all this. That disappoints me. The board may make a decision on ceo and other staffing matters, but who knows what’ll really go through.

I am glad that we won’t see a Tom and shiv baby. Don’t need that.

So tired of that "yeah?" at the end of every sentence. Like they're too good for "okay?"

Connor is really the only one of the siblings who speaks in a normal fashion, without the hip hesitations and stammering. He’s just that much older.

As much as I dislike the shiv character, I’m starting to think she’s the true successor. She’s the most like her father, obsessed with power, always scheming, willing to do anything. And she’s got that reptilian face. Even her emotionality is like him, she just has to learn to control and channel it like he did.

Logan sent his three younger kids to some kind of progressive prep school that discouraged speaking in complete sentences in the active voice.

Why aren't the brothers angrier at Shiv for stabbing them in the back? All Kendall did was call her a piece of dirt then calmly watches her pull Mencken over and plead her case accompanied by Matsson. Kendall should be out for blood. When Shiv revealed she was pregnant, Kendall looked shocked because now he has to kill 2 people.

I was wondering that, too. I thought in the car on the way to the funeral there was a bit of a truce, but after that it was like nothing happened. That’s another problem with the condensed timeline- the emotions and feeling are always changing the next day pretty much.

Like all the whiplash back and forth of Tom and shiv this season. We’re getting divorced, we’re flirting by flinging insults, now bitey, then hookup, marathon sex, epic fight, pregnancy reveal gone bad, go sleep at the apartment you’re tired, etc. There should’ve been more time for them to feel these feelings before being shoved into another situation where they have to feel something else.

Kendall should still be pissed at Shiv. Shiv should be mad at Greg. But they act like it’s nothing.

I get it. That's how the siblings are with each other. They have been scheming against each other and being nasty to each other the whole show. Ultimately they still always end up accepting each other. That isn't even the meanest thing Shiv has done to Kendall, remember the open letter she wrote last season.

Just like how Tom and Shiv can say the nastiest things about each other but still be tender later on.

These people are too adjusted to nastiness as part of how people interact with each other, Logan taught them that.

I think Tom commits suicide.

He's so screwed. He's an outcast, he's blamed for declaring Mencken the winner before all the ballots have been counted. No one respects him. No one has his back. And he may be out of a job and unable to find employment .

He's been saying how tired he is. I think he's not only tired from lack of sleep, but tired of trying, of being the butt of jokes, of being walked all over , the cut throat corporate world, and the games Shiv is playing with him. Even when she took a drink of champagne in front of trying to get a reaction, he just shrugged it off. He stopped caring about everything. He didn't even attend the funeral even though he was a prominete ballbearer.

He tried and he failed. He wasn't cut out for the horrible world of the Roy's. He didn't fit in, even though he tried. No wonder he's so exhausted and just wants to sleep.

He was the only character that I kinda cared about and I hope I'm wrong. He was/is the tragedy of this series.

Poor little prominete ballbearer Tom!

What a stunning episode. Logan's brother and his son delivering both (chauvinistic) sides of his role as a titan of the industry, and then Shiv closing with the human and female side of things.

A "pan-Habsburg American-led EU alternative"? Dear gods, keep Connor away from us, he's an absolute moron. Did anyone else think he botched his line, though? Why would he refer to my small country as macro and his travel budget as mini? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Ken turning into his father even before the funeral chairs were removed by the (coloured) folk he's about to screw over for the rest of his life. Genius writing. As was Roman literally slipping while ascending to the podium, a portent of the meltdown to come. I wonder what the finale holds for him, he's beyond any kind of humiliation now.

Greg looked HUGE next to Askars, I always forget just how tall he is.

I honestly can't stomach Kieran Culkin anymore. I know there are a couple of rabid fanbois of his here, but I can't even see a glimmer of anything remotely sexy or sexually attractive about him. In interviews, he seems to have just a little of the attitude he does on Succession. That isn't to say he's awful, I'm sure he isn't. But he's off-the-charts hammy. He's been the most irritating thing about the show since the first episode.

The last moments of last night’s episode kind of felt like the end of Roman’s arc.

After that performance at the funeral, I think Roman officially eliminated himself as a potential successor. It's between Shiv and Kendall to fight it out.

You're both right, it's as if he disappeared into the unwashed masses at the end there, defeated and definitively eliminated from the race by both Ken and Shiv.

Maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit but it was pretty clever of them to destroy Roman because he was overwhelmed with an authentic emotion for once in his adult life.

R484 I don’t think anyone is dying in the finale. Tom might just come out alright. He’s a scrappy suck up, he’ll do whatever to stay in the game. Align with Shiv, Ken, Matsson, Mencken, Nan Pierce, the Old Guard, it doesn’t matter. As he told Roman, he’s here to serve.

If Mencken is the election winner, nothing will come of him calling it early. It might even put Tom on his radar. (Greg did manage to tell Mencken at the funeral Tom was the one who did that).

It’d be interesting if he does end up as CEO after that fantastic roasting by Karl in episode four when Karl told him no one likes him and he’s only there because he married the boss’ daughter. Terminal Tom on Top!

R487 I find his acting uneven... I thought the opening with his practicing the funeral speech was brilliant - fully consistent with the weird character he's created -- his speech quick witted, surprising, bizarre, and hilarious. "... a great man... everyone sucked his dick... something something something..." Then his breakdown at the funeral was just silly, too melodramatic, honey-cured Ham.

The whole thing has gone kabuki/cartoony... agree with above posters saying they've tried to include too much in too compressed a time period... e.g. the President-Elect would NEVER attend a media mogul's funeral just hours after the election. So it's all broad melodrama, which is silly if still entertaining. But in this fable/cartoon: Greg in class/training at the Amusement Park at the beginning... Greg ascending to the CEO at the end. "Hello sexy.... you're so stupid I could really use you."

Thanks R428, great point. I just assumed that Kendal knew how well Colin knew his father and might help Kendall out.

That was certainly on purpose r491. Roman's downfall is that he actually showed raw human emotion, which was meant to endear him to the audience, but in the circles he moves marks him as a weakling that they can't respect.

It makes sense, Roman always was the kid who loved Logan the most and beneath his trolling demeanor has been the most emotional.

I wonder if Greg stole that Citibike from some black youths.

This is a short interview on the episode. Walter has some interesting observations from a British perspective.

Oh crap, archive isn't getting past the paywall. Try again.

[quote]I honestly can't stomach Kieran Culkin anymore. I know there are a couple of rabid fanbois of his here, but I can't even see a glimmer of anything remotely sexy or sexually attractive about him.

If only there were some other sort of criteria people could admire him for, beyond his physical attributes. Like maybe acting?

He has a fuckable ass. Definitely.

R498 She seems to suggest that Connor spoke at the funeral. Maybe that was cut.

Thank God none of you fuck nuts who are predicting the end of the series are actually writing for the show. No one is dying and no one is committing suicide. And as far as the rest of you calling this the weakest episode of the season, what the ever loving fuck? Kieran Culkan’s having an amazing season. He has managed to somehow create empathy for a completely unredeemable character. Last night was incredible. Shut the fuck up.

“ And as far as the rest of you calling this the weakest episode of the season,” we are right.

Kendall’s eulogy about money was puke that even Ayn Rand would have discarded as contemptible.

The writing this season is increasingly lazy.

R502 is Logan posting from the grave— excuse me, the mausoleum.

[quote] I honestly can't stomach Kieran Culkin anymore. I know there are a couple of rabid fanbois of his here, but I can't even see a glimmer of anything remotely sexy or sexually attractive about him. In interviews, he seems to have just a little of the attitude he does on Succession. That isn't to say he's awful, I'm sure he isn't. But he's off-the-charts hammy. He's been the most irritating thing about the show since the first episode.

I've felt that way about Kieran Culkin's performance from day one. He irks the hell out of me, and his mugging and snarky one-liners remind me too much of Robert Downey Jr. RDJ must be an idol of his because he approaches every performance the same way (his character in Fargo Season 2 wasn't all that different from Roman in Succession).

But we're in the minority, as many think he's delivering some of the finest acting of his career. Roman's breakdown scene at the funeral last night has certainly secured his Emmy nomination for Best Lead Actor.

He has such unattractive posture. Moves like a hunchback.

r417 Colin knows about Kendall's murder cover up situation with Logan. Kendall did a good thing for Kendall

I’m looking forward to more Ewan next episode. I like that grump.

It occurred to me this morning I would give Ewan’s speech at my father’s eulogy if I had the balls. The part about him being a mean and meager person who didn’t even try to do the right thing, anyway.

James Cromwell stole the episode. He is so good.

R507 Kendall did a stupid thing…he’s stupid enough to think no one else could ever read his intentions.

To those asking about Stewy, I noticed Sandi in the background this episode, so I guess they didn't have time to fit everyone in.

Speaking of Colin: Yes? No? Maybe?

I’m a yes. Nice normal looking (big), man.

Sandi was in the aisle in his wheelchair. Wasn’t smiling as much as I expected!

R513 yes from me. He looks good in jeans.

I like the bigger guys.

The actor that plays Stewy was on set for the funeral, he must have had filmed a scene but they decided to cut it.

There always scenes they did to cut.

Last episode will involve a contentious board meeting where all hell breaks loose. The gloves are off. Kendall appears to have the upper hand but the election is still undecided and the board adjourns without a decision on the deal.

Kendall and Roman go to a quiet, cozy diner to discuss strategy. They invite Shiv who is worried that Matsson is going to betray her on the CEO offer. While the brothers wait at the table, Shiv is having a hard time parallel parking. As she comes in the door she is followed by a man who is wearing a large sweater and ear muffs. He sits at the bar and then goes past the Roys to the bathroom.........⬛️

And he smiles. Who knew? A definite, yes.

R517 = David Chase

Totally agree that the writing has been lacking this season compared to other seasons, R503, but I thought the writers did a decent job with Kendall's eulogy. Kendall is a mental lightweight who is in over his head and his eulogy reflected his deficiencies. His eulogy was idiotic because he is idiotic.

R497 Harriet Walter could play the Duchess of Windsor.

He did a better job than I could ever do on the fly. I would’ve choked badly. But not crying like Roman.

I’m a terrible public speaker

[quote]James Cromwell stole the episode. He is so good.

On the Kara Swisher podcast, he said he has long COVID and that his brain fog was so bad that morning that he didn't think he'd be able to get through the whole thing. He surprised himself by pulling it off on the first take, and then a second. When it was a time for a third, he couldn't do it.

I found it amusing that Kerry's brother also has long dark hair.

Greg comes out as CEO IMO. Matsson might’ve literally fucked him after their drinks, and made him drink his blood (or just his cum). Greg made some comment about consuming things, I believe. He might’ve completely usurped Shiv with Matsson. And he’s more than willing to suck up to the Nazi president guy. Matsson seemed to be looking at someone (Greg?) in the limo on the phone with Shiv.

Also the women sitting together was nice. I know they’re all evil in ways, but it was just a plain lovey moment.

Plus there was the lost document from Logan that Greg’s name was on. The main takeaway that episode was about Kendall and the underline/strikeout, so why was Greg even mentioned as being on the paper?

Fuck Greg

Greg's only work experience has been basically being Tom's PA. He's not going to be CEO.

Greg's job title is Tom's executive assistant right. How exactly do people think an executive assistant that two years ago (I believe all of Succession takes place over two years) was an intern could be named CEO of this massive corporation. Realistically things like that don't happen, Succession has never been written that outlandish.

Heh, you beat me to it r528.

^ The last episode was that outlandish. It was absolutely not at all credible that the morning after an election, which was still being counted, the candidate for one of the parties would go to a funeral like that.

Dumb and lazy writing.

I am surprised that Poochie did not show up

I predicted in r2 in the first thread that it'll be Tom. Here is my theory! I hope I'm right!

R526 because Logan didn’t know what to do with Greg. (Craig?). He wrote the note right after Greg arrived on scene and wasn’t sure where he was going to fit in.

We still don’t know, but I give him credit for hanging in there and willing to do whatever it takes to stay in the company.

He’s slick businessman wannabe Greg now not Greg the egg.

This is not Arrested Development. Greg is not going to be CEO. Jesus Christ. 🤦🏼

That’s Mr. CEO to you r534

Fine, it won’t be Greg. But Matsson gets to keep feeding Greg his liquids if Tom is CEO, so that’s my next choice lol

I’d like to see Greg munching on one of Matsson’s frozen blood bricks.

Disgusting Brother! Actually, Matsson and Greg would be a good pair of Dbros.

You might be right r532! I’d say he has a better chance than shiv or Roman. He’s my guess if there is an American CEO appointed, but at this point I’m not expecting to get any definitive answer.

I thought Nicole Ansari (Brian Cox’ wife) was very badly miscast as Sally-Anne. I always saw Sally-Anne as a horse-faced, outdoorsy blonde, like Hannah Waddingham. Or someone resembling the blonde woman in the opening title sequence, the one who looks a bit like Sharon Stone.

That would have ruined it r539. Caroline, Marcia, and Kerry all have black hair. You don't want the fourth to be blonde, want to complete the pattern.

I created Thread 5 since this one will be full soon.

R541, holy premature ejaculation!

R539. It’s not your script…in any case she was in screen for 40 seconds, so what.

Thank you R541 !

The people who predict deaths or suicides in the finale are funny. They haven't been watching the same show I have. Haha.

[quote] The people who predict deaths or suicides in the finale are funny. They haven't been watching the same show I have. Haha.

This happened with Mad Men too.

I felt that with people saying that Mattson was pulling some elaborate con and the drama with Ebba and the Indian number drama was a trap he was laying, when has Succession ever tried to be "what a twist we pulled on you!". It's not Westworld or a Shamalyan movie.

This is another show not particularly in sync with DLers tastes

R548 I'm a longtime DL-er and I love Succession. It's very hetero - that can be exhausting. But how can you not love all of the drama, intrigue, hot guys, drugs, tomboy Shiv, witty dialogue and general undiluted cuntery?

I agree, R548, but sadly, in previous threads on other seasons, there were some really insightful posts and good hard takes on the show. This particular thread has become something of a joke. Every paper and media outlet has been raving about last night's masterpiece of an episode and the old fucks in here are declaring it "one of the worst of the series". Sally Ann's two seconds on screen was horribly miscast? You are not serious people. I can't take these opinions seriously at all. Kieran Culkin's crying was over the top hammy? Guess what, genius, it was fucking written to be over the top. Roman had been numb to his grief for days, but showing signs that he is slowly going off the rails, and after hearing his uncle give a eulogy that eloquently portrayed Logan's traumas, he was devastated. The breakdown wasn't meant to be tasteful, gentle weeping, it was supposed to be humiliating. There's even a viral video of Roman's mewling childish sobs that Karl is playing later at the reception, thus further destroying any credibility Roman had built up. The incident is supposed to ruin Roman. Its not that hard to figure out.

Kendall's eulogy, meanwhile, was hardly idiotic. It was a beautiful piece of writing by Jesse Armstrong, but it was also a perfect note for Kendall to rise on. This has been Ken's superpower this season, being a great public speaker and showing himself to be the face of the company.

I also agree with R547 - the theory floated several times here that Matsson "planted" the faulty numbers as a trap was fucking retarded. Stewy was complaining about the numbers not looking good back in the second episode of the season, before the sibs ever came over to the idea of stopping the deal.

Yes, r549, too hetero. The finale needs some man/man action. How about:

Mencken/Roman

Roman/Matsson

Matsson/Greg

Greg/Tom

Stewy/Kendall

Any of those would work.

R551 When Matsson says "Hey, sexy!" last episode to Greg, he eyes him up and down. I rewound it because I thought I was seeing things. I would kill for a Gregg/Lukas fuck scene

Thank you R550. You’ve said everything I’ve been thinking. So many bad takes in this thread, about a season full of top-tier writing and performances. I wasn’t even a huge fan of Succession until this season. I don’t have any predictions for the finale, I just want to see what they come up with. It’s been a ride.

[quote]It's very hetero

Except for Mencken being played by Prior Walter.

Justin Kirk isn’t straight, is he?

Straight up the ass

They want it to be Dynasty, R550

They hate Ted Lasso too.

Agree with everything you noted, especially Mattson not planting the numbers - that is not the sort of plot twist the show's writer's go for.

I also thought the Tom-Shiv scene was great, his whole "why didn't you tell me" and her just shrugging it off (and then later telling Mattson that she'd just ignore the baby the way she was ignored.)

This is a discussion about the show, not a fan thread. This season has had moments of greatness but has also been very uneven and it is fair to call out that unevenness. Kendall's eulogy was a sputtering mess that only appeared marginally decent because it proceeded Roman's collapse. If you think Kendall is on the rise than you are missing the entire point of this show. There are no winners. These are all awful people. Even the so called 'serious' people die on toilets and such. They're all amoral jokes.

Oh, I thought Kendall's eulogy masterfully threaded the needle. It couldn't be TOO polished, because the character hadn't planned to speak and was having to improvise and cobble something together out of Roman's notes and his own thoughts, but it had to be something that would right the ship after Roman's flameout and would play well to this crowd. The writing got it just right. It had some lyrical phrases, and Strong delivered it beautifully (very "Method" nasal drip and all).

Kendall, whatever his other deficiencies, is a consistently good public speaker. He always seems to soar in those moments: testifying before Gil's committee, blasting his dad at the sacrificial press conference, unveiling Living+, etc.

The thing people seem to forget is that Succession has never been about shocking twists. It was unexpected for Logan to die in episode 3, but he’s battled health problems from the beginning of the series!

I think Kendall is going to get exactly what he wants, but at what cost?

The cost of his family. Siblings estranged. Wife takes the kids. Minimal visitation.

He’ll get Colin and Hugo, and maybe Greg, but will be miserable.

I hope his bff Stewy sticks by him at least.

R551 let’s make it a nice closed circuit:

Mencken/Roman

Roman/Matsson

Matsson/Greg

Greg/Tom

Tom/Nate

Nate/Kendall

Kendall/Stewy

Stewy/Mencken (just to close the circle, why not)

Sounds good to me.

I thought (I have only watched the episode once) that when Shiv purposely drinks Champagne in front of Tom meant that she would get rid of the baby. Remember that when they got on the boat she refused a glass. Also, when Dame Harriet Walter joins them, she kind of realizes that she will get rid of it after having guessed that she was pregnant in the earlier scene at the funeral.

I thought it was a kind of fuck you I’ll do what i to Tom. He picked up a glass of champagne, she grabbed one, then downed it while looking right at him. I took it as she was daring him to say something about it. He didn’t take the bait an instead said ‘that’s fine, it’s fine, that’s fine.’ Clearly he didn’t like it but he wasn’t going to tell her what to do and maybe cause a scene.

I would imagine she’ll stop drinking now. She’s definitely going to have the baby since everyone knows she’s pregnant. I think it would seem like a fail if she got an abortion or had a miscarriage. She won’t want that or risk having a kid with any damages if she can help it. So no more booze.

She told her mom she’ll get rid of it as in pawning the baby off to a nanny. She will have the kid, but will be minimally involved like her own mom was. That was a dig on her mom.

Interesting how many people in this thread complaining about how others want this show to be like Dynasty seemed to forget that even Brian Cox himself said the show has similarities to the primetime soap.

Old man says stop speculating about shows like Succession. It's gone too far. It spoils endings. We can't enjoy t.v. anymore like dumb kids. It's all due to the internet, a series of tubes.

Actually, I kind of agree with his point.

R556 I think you, and he, are overthinking this.

Agree, R566. All it does is set viewers up for disappointment 99% of the time.

Glen Weldon, who wrote this, is gay. Speculate whether he saw this thread.

Yeah

Yeah?

Yeah!!!!

Neither acknowledged nor rejected as "yeah"

Y€ah

Ye 🥄 👃 ah

I'm jerking off watching you all say yeah...

Yea🍆 💦?

Taa

Tom: (to Gerri) We good? (pause)

Tom: Gerri? We good? (pause)

Tom: We good Gerri? Gerri, we good?

Brilliant writing…. 😂

HEeeey!

Uh, like, wha- whu, what? I mean, like, huh?

Agree R557 - it was more a fuck you I'll do what I want.

The baby is not going to develop fetal alcohol syndrome from a single small glass of champagne.

R570 through R581 - hysterical!

I don’t think Shiv is actually drinking but just putting the glass up to her lips.

Oh she was drinking. And has been at every event except Connor’s wedding. Maybe she was then, too, I just remember her refusing the glass as she walked on the boat.

Not drinking enough to hurt the fetus most likely.

She’s not out there chugging the Mad Dog 2020 every day.

But the last episode’s champagne was definitely directed at Tom to see what he’d say. He didn’t say anything and then got offered the chance to sleep at his own home. Nice.

I've been consistently wrong on my predictions, but I'm not giving up: - I think Kendall will be poised to take the Big Chair, only to have Shiv? reveal what she knows about the dead waiter - Roman spinning out into the nihilistic haze we always expected Kendall to fall into - Mattson keeps on Shiv, but she has no real power & ends ups lackey/whipping girl; we never know what she does with the kid, but her future looks bleak - Tom leaves, maybe for another job, but he's gone forever - Greg ends up back at the amusement park in some capacity

[quote]I found it amusing that Kerry's brother also has long dark hair.

That was her real-life brother, Bailey.

R587. So Greg will end up like Olga Baclanova at the end of “Freaks”?

My absolutely favorite thing in this episode was Lady Caroline getting the four women to sit together.

Won't we see Cherry Jones anymore ? What happened to buying her company for money they didn't have ?

They’ll probably touch upon that in the finale. Might not see her though

This

Thread

Is.

Over

Come

To the new one

Linked r541

Peace out

Suckers