SUCCESSION, Season 4

I hope we see more of Harriet walter as the three younger kids' horrible unloving snooty mother, and I also really like the actress who plays marcia, their mysterious Lebanese stepmother.

I've been reliably told we'll see more of Jeannie Berlin as the acerbic Syd, and also more of Cherry Jones as the liberal media zillionaire who pretends she's above capitalism.

My theory is that Tom takes it all. Here are my reasons:

1. He's the only one who's ever offered anything to Logan at a price to himself (the offer to go to prison, alerting Logan to the plot against him).

2. Logan uses his own children when it's convenient, but doesn't rate any of them.

3. Tom is an outsider who made his own path, just like Logan.

4. Either Logan will anoint a successor who takes his place, or some will take advantage of Logan at a weak point-- when he's incapacitated by illness, for example. The only one who maintain a hold on power is an outsider. Any of the siblings will continually face challenges from the other three. So it has to be Tom, or maybe Marcia's son, or someone else who comes out of left field.

The hard thing about caring who succeeds Logan is that none of the children would be happy running Waystar Royco. They only want to do it to prove to themselves their father thought they were good enough to have it. Moreover, Kendall, Roman and Connor are all so incredibly self-destructive they'd run it into the ground.

I think it's far more likely it will be handed to Tom or Gerri or Karl, all of whom would actually be interested in the actual work.. (Although Tom is such an inept human being he would be fired in a few months by his board.)

Thanks for starting the thread, OP.

The Shiv and Tom b-plot is the only interesting thing iabout this bloated, incoherent show.

I think the successor will be Shiv.

Can someone remind me why Tom was willing to take the fall?

I love Jeannie Berlin! I hope Cyd Peach is the last one standing.

I like Logan's new mistress Kerry, who had hair like Bettie Page (for no clear reason).

R7 Tom was willing to take the fall as a way to protrate himself for Logan. Because the idea was he'd do minimal time, at a Club Fed, and popping out the other side of that will have proven his strength, loyalty and generally baddassery.

Basically, anilingus.

What's the over/under on Cousin Greg winning the game?

My bet is on Tom winning it all.

The prenup was called “unconscionable”.

Whose prenup?

Uneven first episode, I thought. Some great moments of hilarity but it felt unfocused to me. Mildly disappointed.

Sorry no Marcia. I liked her enigmatic presence. And she seemed to actually love the old bastard or as close to it as anybody.

Was the scene with the Pierces in Italy, or was it their place on the East Coast?

This is going to be Sarah Snook’s season.

West coast, I thought, R17. Looked like a vineyard and the kids were wearing the same clothes.

What are the intelligence rankings? They're all stupid. ( I know everyone fan girls chonky Shiv, but she's stupid too.) Their lack of self-awareness also being a contributing factor to their incompetence.

Smartest to dumbest:

1. Kendall

2. Shiv

3. Roman - but somewhat self-aware

4. Connor

Marcia is "in Milan shopping. Forever."

I wonder what went wrong with the Marcia character. It feels to me like where they've ended up with her is far from the original intention.

Definitely a "first episode of the season" ice breaker vibe. Biggest "gotcha" moment is that we've jumped ahead a second and Tom and Chiv are separated and he's nose-fucking his step-father as she is trying to bring her dad down.

R22, everyone in their orbit is ruthless to some degree. Even Marcia, and I think she's ok and sends her love.

Connor is such a useless character.

Samantha Ronson's sister is cute

I actually like Connor because he's so different from his siblings. He does what we always think the rest of the them should have done long ago: cashed out and enjoyed his hundreds of millions. But he shows how they wouldn't be happy even if they did that.

He's also very funny, and I love how his fiancée has absolutely zero respect for him.

Jeremy Armstrong made the right decision to end the show this season. It was already circling the drain last season, and if this episode indicates how things will be in future episodes, it's best to end it now. Armstrong has entirely run out of ideas and is too pretentious of a writer to fully embrace its nighttime soap roots to make this fully enjoyable.

*Jesse Armstrong

How has Dagmara Dominczyk managed an opening credits main cast billing all these seasons? Karolina has been a supporting character at best…and I have to think hard to remember her at all.

Not a great first episode but the show usually gets better with time. I think Brian Cox is the show. He seems human while all the others are cartoons.

My sense is that they showrunner had big plans for both Marcia and Karolina the first season when the show started, but then they got forgotten along the way.

Tom sounds a lot like Kevin Spacey to me. 90% of the time he’s talking all I can hear is Kevin in Se7en and it creeps me out.

10billion to buy Pierce just to fuck over daddy. I don’t think it’s worth it. Gotta say I was with Roman here- they should’ve stuck to their little The Hundred project. And used the 10b to buy snowmobiles and sushi.

R33 Yes, they had a thing right there, they're own thing -- The Hundred. But no, they have to prove to daddy that they are hot shit. I think this is going to be a big messy painful humiliating lesson in hubris for the Roy siblings. Roman was right. He's a wimp though...

Logan should give the company to Colin. He’s his best pal.

Its funny how Kieran Culkin's brother Rory just completely usurped him with one single shot of his duder bro weenus under glass.

It might be because everything is so puritanical these days, but I found it hot as motherfuckin' shit. Last year, it was fake Kieran weenie, this year, we get real Rory weenie.

Alls I can say is, keep it up, boys!

Roman’s dick pic was Kieran wearing a prosthetic? Bummer.

I bet Method Actor extraordinaire Jeremy Strong would’ve show the real thing.

The scene with Tom and Shiv in the bedroom was a gut punch. Not because I care about their marriage. Their marriage was a horrible mistake. But the actors, Sarah and Matthew, are so brilliant. The sickening, lonely sadness was palpable. They're breaking up, but they still contemplate having sex for a second. They hold hands in the darkness. As fucked up and beyond repair as it all is, there are still feelings there. We've all been there.

I’m not convinced they’ll get a divorce. They should, it’s an awful relationship, but I think Shiv’s deal with Pierce isn’t going to go well, and whatever other incoming drama (maybe Logan dying) happens, she’ll reconsider divorcing Tom. And he’ll want to be there for her. Because he is an idiot. I do hope they divorce.

Do we think his calling Shiv this episode about the lunch date with Naomi was to make her jealous? Or was he trying to tip her off about Logan buying Pierce because he wants to win her back?

I agree with some of the reviews of the season premiere I saw today: we finally get the sort of dynamics that made S1 so captivating. Namely, the feeling of the action moving somewhere and the main characters actually *doing* something instead of zinging each other in luxury environments. I found S3 kind of meh, except for the very end of it. Basically, S2 and S3 would end by resetting everything and returning us to, more or less, where we were at the end of S1. Hopefully, the holding pattern has been exited and things start getting more dramatic and interesting.

Are we going to find out what happened between Naomi and Kendall?

Tom is underestimated by everyone, especially his wife, and he tipped her to the PGM deal because he didn’t want it to happen. Recall that at Tern Haven in season 2, Logan says he’d toss Tom over to complete the Pierce acquisition. Adding PGM to the ATN rump is bad for Tom. He called Siobhan hoping to set in motion exactly what happened in this episode.

But what happens when Logan finds out Tom tipped off shiv?

What did Logan say to Tom when Tom asked what would happen if he and shiv got a divorce? I can’t remember exactly, but didn’t he say something like “if we’re okay, then we’re okay”? It wasn’t really an answer.

I can’t see Tom ending up on top at the end of the season.

The scene with the three siblings discussing what to do to beat their father bored me to tears. I was this close to leaving the show forever.

Logan told Tom, “If we’re good, then we’re good.” Which doesn’t mean anything.

Greg’s date tagged a Pierce relative on Instagram from Logan’s birthday party, which is a much more plausible and public explanation for the kids figuring out the Pierce deal than Tom’s phone call.

If Tom pisses off logan then they’re not good. He’s probably going to do something to do that. It seems nearly impossible to keep Logan happy.

Okay this makes sense now. If Logan sells to Pierce, Tom's out of a job. Got it.

Tom should:

Divorce Shiv

Move far away

Let the dog out of the freaking pen!

R49 RIGHT?? I was like "Shiv, fucking take Mondale out of the pen, jeez. He prolly needs to pee."

R48 but that was before Tom gave Logan the head’s up about the kids betrayal. Perhaps he’ll make a Tom Clause to ensure Tom keeps his job as a thank you.

R51 I can't see Logan giving a Minnesota fuck about Tom's job security.

Idk, he’s got to have some loyalty to his people right? Tom did him a solid so he’ll repay the favor. At least until Tom fucks something up.

Stewy was looking pretty good in the preview. What do we think Kendall will offer him to make his involvement worthwhile?

Hopefully some hot sex.

R54 They sure do play it like that in the previews, don't they? That tender embrace between Kendall and Stewy?

I an think of few people I'd less rather watch have sex on TV than Jeremy Strong. He is so ratfaced.

I could have done without the references to sex between Logan and his “friend, assistant and advisor.”

I really, really cannot stand Kerry. I hope the kids make mincemeat out of her.

I'm confused. If Logan is selling the company in two weeks, there will be no "successor" to lead the company, right? That's how the kids are getting the money to buy Pierce, their 5% each of the sale. So I guess something has to fuck up the sale?

I meant that there will be no company to have a successor because they won't control it anymore.

Corporate acquisitions of this magnitude typically have long integration periods and high failure rates. And it seems like Logan will retain the news properties, similar to how Murdoch kept some Fox properties, including Fox News, after selling to Bob Iger.

R57 she digs his omelette nipples

R56 yeah, he’s not hot. The other guy is. Let’s see him naked.

I think Strong’s more Droopy Dog face than rat face.

R61 Ah ok, and since Tom heads the news division of Waystar Royco, he would be able to stay put?

And Logan is selling, but also was attempting to acquire?

I'm getting confused, I admit.

By far the most cinematic-looking season already. Cousin Greg has such beautiful fingers. Did Cherry Jones seriously pronounce kerfuffle as kerfLuffle, lmao? Bitch is losing it.

Can't stand Jeremy Strong, I hope he trips and falls into a wood chipper.

I got lost as well. If Logan is selling the company why is he buying another news company? The kids can only buy if Dad sells the whole company. It does seem like they paid too much for a dinosaur.

Is Logan selling everything but the news division? That would make sense.

R65 do you want to smell Greg’s finger?

Cox is a foul-mouthed pig.

I refuse to watch this.

R67 I'd smell the girl's finger.

The Alan Ruck character is such a woeful retard.

I thought he looked good at least.

Wasting $100 million just to keep polling at 1%? People would laugh at him more for that than falling below 1%.

The reason Logan wants Pierce is because it represents everything he hates. It goes completely against his politics and he wants the pleasure of bastardizing it. Once he sells Waystar he won’t have anything to do, so PGM was going to be his new toy. It’s also an election year which would make it a very influential toy to have in his back pocket.

And, no, Logan isn’t going to show Tom any loyalty nor go out of his way to protect his position at Waystar/ATN. The minute Tom stops being useful to Logan he becomes a non-entity. He doesn’t benefit from being a permanent, even if an unwanted and disrespected, fixture like the Toy kids who at least sprung forth from Logan’s loins making them somewhat important by association. Tom knows this which is why he’s not loyal to anyone but himself. Tom isn’t the narcissist that Logan is, but he is a self-preserving sociopath.

Cherry Jones as Nan Pierce, the isn't-money-awful, I-need-another-billion, la-de-da, rich Liberal, is fantastic.

Snorted at the selfie line. It was great they didn't show Logan's reaction, because everyone can imagine it.

What the fuck is up with Shiv’s hair?

At this point, I'm thinking Greg will inherit the empire.

His sexual deviance was a demonstration of risk-seeking, irreverent behavior of the sort Logan possesses and respects.

He was the only person who ripped into Logan in a hurtful way when Logan demanded people 'roast' him.

He sold his soul last season and he giddily calls himself disgusting now.

R72 I love Jones's acting but the way her character is written seems cartoonish to me. If more time passed between her faux above-it-all comments and her overt greediness, then I'd believe it, but as it stands, she's just silly.

[quote] Moreover, Kendall, Roman and Connor are all so incredibly self-destructive they'd run it into the ground. I think it's far more likely it will be handed to Tom or Gerri or Karl, all of whom would actually be interested in the actual work.. (Although Tom is such an inept human being he would be fired in a few months by his board.)

I just saw King Lear yesterday at DC's Shakespeare Theatre Company—GREAT production, and theead actor was equal parts Lear and Logan Roy.

Anyway, in Lear (spoiler alert for the 400-year-old play!) the king and all three of his daughters die, along with other casualties of their greed.

The play ends with their deaths, but we have enough info to know that noble Edward and Albany will inherit most of the kingdom that Lear divided up foolishly among two of his three children.

Given that we're in a postmodern era where all is ironic, I figure if this show does take a chance and go for full-on tragedy—which I would love because who has the balls to do that in contemporary times?—then instead of noble non-relatives inheriting the empire, it would be ignoble ones to keep the evil cycle going. So who would that be? Tom, Geri, Greg all have been loyal, although Greg doesn't seem to get the game everyone else plays and he does seem to be haphazardly, messily 'disgusting' now, so it could be him if he becomes very chaotic. Otherwise, the kids' mother certainly is purely evil enough to win it all.

I don't know, I mean...I feel like, you know, the writers, they, like, gave a little more attention to...huh. To working out some of the really fucking dialogue idiosyncracies. Yeah? Or no? Less time wasted on...

What do you think?

Yeah?

Or no?

No, right?

I think the bodyguard will inherit. He’s Logan’s best friend.

[quote]more time passed between her faux above-it-all comments and her overt greediness

Nah. She perfectly encapulates the airy nature of that type. I remember walking out of a resort across acress of marble with an heiress, whose family owned a townhouse within the complex. A chauffeured white Roller suddenly pulled up in front of us, and she flicked back a blonde tress with her hand, on which sat the most enormous baget diamond, and she said without a hint of humour: "Sometimes I think it's really quite glamorous here..."

Does anyone else mainly just watch the show for the interior decorating and affluent abodes? Sleek, modern, expensive homes are engrossing to watch for me.

Of course! All the time in movies. Weirdly, I caught a few minutes of a C Grade movie Hangover III the other day and was riveted by the walls of a home that they must have hired for the filming: it's not obvious in the quality of the YouTube clip, but on a big screen the walls are very clearly an expensive multi-layered semi-transparent glaze job, and I was obsessed -- the gorgeous turquoise has clear undertints you can only get from that kind of work.

Logan said, “ if we're good, we're good” R43.

E.g., Logan was saying, "I'm a fickle old bastard. As long as you remain a useful idiot, then we're good. Stop being useful, and you're disposable."

And also, of course, I assume that if Tom did something to really hurt Shiv, Logan would really hurt Tom. As Shiv said last night, "He's a sociopath. Not because he cares," but because he associates Shiv with himself, his property, and he's not going to let Tom get away with damaging his property.

The dialogue of the show has its own particular style. What would you call it? Abrupt putdowns and telegraphese employing cultural references and analogies?

R84 Annoying abbreviated vulgar businesspeak and too much filler dialogue.

Shiv needs some Ozempic. Fast. She really ballooned up since last season.

Slipping from the 1% was so on the nose. I think several of them will by the time this is over.

All the sons seem to be sociopathic and have bad personalities aside from doing dastardly things to please or spite their father.

Siobhan seems to push herself to be a worse person all the time, as if that will make her father respect her, but she seems to be less sociopathic. I feel like she made the weird open-relationship rule with Tom just to make herself suffer and become colder, but she can't really handle it. Despite the old brother being so attached to his pet prostitute, all the sons seem to regard women as just incidentally there.

I wonder why writers usually do this, making characters who are women more likable and sympathetic,

I loved Nan, "oh these numbers! So vulgar, 8? 9?"

"What comes after 9? B?"

That was great.

R84 Witty banter and snarky one-liners, m’Lud.

R88 because the writers are usually straight men, and often see women not as full human beings but in broad stokes of good/bad, fuckable/unfuckable.

Was Logan trying to make the children overspend for PGN to further bring them down? He told Tom to go in with something like 6 or 7 billion. Then got into something of a bidding war with his kids.

I watched the marathon of seasons 1-3 this weekend. In the final episode of S3, Logan said the kids would have to interview for their jobs with Mattson. I thought that was a good idea since he's too close to them and couldn't choose. Now I'm not sure what's going on.

I find it interesting at this point, that Roman has by far the best instincts, but is too big a wuss to stand by them. And Kieren Culkin is killing it.

Remember, the series opened on Cousin Greg . . .

R92, I think there's something there. His number was so low. Theirs was not. Nothing seems accidental.

I think there's something to Lear theory too... I think they may all be in ruin, except Conor (who is pointless) and Greg (who is useless.) But Greg won't get the empire... he's just treacherous, he has no talent other than opportunism but they've never shown him to have any actual intelligence at running a business. And while you could argue that presents a lovely statement for the writers to make about American corporate integrity, the Logan character would not trust his project to his kids on the basis they weren't up to the job, so why would he ever give it to Ichabod Greg? Greg will probably survive the mess as poor and pointless as in his first scene. Kind of a Norma Desmond in a theme park costume.

[quote]Are we going to find out what happened between Naomi and Kendall?

I always assumed that sort of withered after Logan got him put in rebah in Iceland or wherever it was, or am I confusing his many attempts to dethrone his father?

"There's something to the Lear theory..."

Yes, it's the foundation of the whole series.

I do now assume that Logan will finally die this season because like Lear, as death comes nearer, he's getting philosophical and reflective. He's asking his fool existential questions about being and nothingness. It's totally King Lear; they're just masking the undergirding with a bunch of nonsense dialogue.

Connor’s wedding is in episode 3. Logan should die then. That seems fitting for him.

[quote] because the writers are usually straight men

And probably cis! And white, too! Oh the shivering horror of it!

I'm very sexually attracted to Greg. And Jeremy Strong. I'd let all the leading men fuck me except Logan, of course.

R86 It was quite noticeable in her arms, spanx can't hide it there. She's a stunning woman and was never thin but looked great the first three seasons.

When she was in LA with her brothers and got up off the couch we got a rear view (pun intended), and her butt was huge. But not in a gross way, I can see straight guys going for that. It’s kind of nice that she’s not stick thin.

I know the actress is pregnant, so if they shot in chronological order, she’s probably going to get chubbier in the last couple episodes.

I didn't know she was pregnant, that explains it. Best wishes to her.

She's odd looking but I think in an appealing way, and she carries her weight very well. There's nothing wrong with how Snook looks.

Some cosmetic or shampoo brand should contract her for ads: GET THE SNOOK LOOK!

Why are they making Shiv look so pasty and frump this season?

Kendall is annoying.

Roman is at least fun to watch.

I think Shiv’s look plays well. She’s depressed. The 2 most significant men in her life screwed her over. She isn’t as resilient as she thought.

Sarah Snook is pregnant. She was on the Today Show last week on Friday, if I remember correctly. She was quarantined with a male friend of hers and they fell in love. They felt that being quarantined together and loving it was a signal that they would be good as husband and wife. They got married not too long ago.

Haven't watched season 4 premier (yet), but Shiv/Sarah looks great. She just needed to go up a size last season. Everything she wore seemed too tight - and I'm thinking specifically about the Tuscan wedding scenes.

[quote]It's totally King Lear; they're just masking the undergirding with a bunch of nonsense dialogue.

Oy, I wonder if Tom gets his eyes gouged out like Gloucester

I hope it's not too much like King Lear. I also hope they end it with absolute clarity. None of this Sopranos self-suck indulgent art bullshit.

I’d like to see a full frontal Mr Darcy before this wraps up.

I'm actually a bit leery about this wrap up on the basis that what I've read suggests they weren't entirely clear they were ending it going in. So in some respects, I don't know how well plotted it will be. I love the show, but this takeover nonsense is getting a bit Lucy and the football. I did not think episode one was well constructed (though I enjoyed big parts of it, for sure.). The first episode overall felt rushed and random to me.

I wish they would dress Shiv in colors other than brown and cream. As a redhead she can rock blues and greens.

Her two forays into formalwear looked great, especially that sapphire blue navy number.

What is it about Nicholas Braun that I find so incredibly sexually compelling?

I also suspect Logan was trying to push the kids upward in their Pierce bid.

Has Logan ever been called “Lowg” before this episode? Tom, Kerry, and Cyd called him that and I thought that was a little odd. And we got a Tommy and Greggy from Logan.

One part that made me laugh was when shiv said Kendall might shoot up a 7-11 and Roman might get his dick caught in an AI machine and offscreen you hear Roman say ‘I wish’ is a very small voice. The way he said it was so funny.

R100-I think Culkin would probably just roll over and ask you to fuck him. Much like his little brother Christian, who's been the pass around bottom on Fire Island for several seasons.

R112, Lucy & the football. I suspect if we knew each other we’d be friends.

It's because he's so tall you just feel like there's got a to be an amazing dick under there.

If the plot is essentially King Lear, who is Cordelia in this scenario?

R120 Cordelia was Lear's favorite, and I believe they established seasons ago that Shiv is Logan's favorite. She is also more honest and loves her father more than her sisters...arguable about whether that would be Shiv.

Goneril was the most vicious turncoat, and she drew Regan into also turning on Lear. Goneril's husband was an ultimate good guy.

Lear was a bad guy himself.

When everyone croaks at the end, the only really tragic loss among the family is Cordelia, whose worst offense was that she was too honest.

Of the children, Siobhan is the one most likely to elicit sympathy from viewers, but she's a co-conspirator with her siblings.

I do think it's odd from a writing perspective (or rather, I am annoyed by it) that the one daughter gets all the domestic-life focus while all the brothers are all business. It feels dated to me. We have seen bits of the brothers' love lives but those pale in comparison to their professional ambitions. Half of Siobhan's screen time is spent on her creepy romantic life.

R117 pics of Christian Culkin at Fire Island?

Roman should hook up with the Justin Kirk character. There’s some weird energy there.

Same with Matson.

R122-You'd need infrared.

[quote]I do think it's odd from a writing perspective (or rather, I am annoyed by it) that the one daughter gets all the domestic-life focus while all the brothers are all business.

Agreed. I still don't even understand the basis for that relationship, unless it was just a plot device to insert a doofus like Tom into the mix for fun.

I think Succession's amazing writing is more myth than legend. Don't get me wrong it is very, very good and a great show, no question, but it is somewhat repetitive and the characters don't have a lot of nuance. We're four seasons in and we know Roman is a sexual head case but not why and the manifestation has been superficial and erratic. Same with the Marcia character - she was this disliked menace in season one (Shiv called her a power sucking Hoover or something), then largely disappeared, then is returned briefly when Logan was afraid to fly home after Kendall's press conference, and has now disappeared again. If she just came back to shake him down, we were owed a scene where she marked her triumph and then fucked off to shop in Milan forever. More than a sentence would have been good. I recall in the pilot there were kids around who seemed to be Roman's, but none since. Fine, but I get the feeling when they're boxed in they just say pretend it never happened, which is Young and the Restless writing, not Emmy winning Succession writing.

I hope the don’t drag out the Tom shiv divorce all season and have her flip flopping with her decision. Just do it!

R125 needs a flashback scene where Roman is touched by a bad man just to put a fine point on an obvious character type.

I read the article at link in the OP. To me Jesse Armstrong is far more interested in what the show says about corporate America than in the actual characters. This leapt out at me:

"Sometimes when you’re in the writers’ room and having one of those “Can we do this?” thoughts – for good and for ill, mostly ill, the last half decade has invited writers to not worry too much about pushing the boundaries of what’s acceptable political public corporate behaviour," he said. "If you read the Financial Times and Wall Street Journal, you’d have a good sense of where we thought the show would go because it’s trying to reflect the world."

I think the company is definitely gone at some point - as if it dies. I remember Mattson offering Logan the option to retain some assets he liked, either iin or out of the new structure. He must keep the network, as the election is obviously a storyline in the season (which would explain why he wanted Pierce to add to his ability to manipulate society and the return of Justin Kirk.)

“We were owed a scene”

How many times do you have to make your point, R127 and R129?

I think we have all underestimated Greg. I think he will play a huge part in the end of all of this. He can take Tom down.

But he can't win. He's not smart enough. In the end, it's all about a number of a piece of paper. That's not Greg.

R128 I think the show is more interested in that, too, or at least the business aspect is overwhelming.

I have been watching a lot of Star Trek: The Nexr Generation, and there's so much dialogue in every episode about technologies and nebulas and star systems and so on, but it still doesn't displace nearly as much of the drama as the businesstalk does on Succession. Have you ever noticed how long the characters spend talking about acquisitions and mergers and so on?

Obviously, this is the characters' world and so it is what they talk about, but they spend A LOT of the show talking about it over long periods of time in ways that do not advance the plot at all.

I find it boring and annoying personally but I think a lot of viewers probably like it because it feels insider-y, and the show is shot like a documentary anyway.

R132 Greg either will "win" or else we are being set up to expect that as a red herring.

There's little reason for him to have been a primary character alongside the siblings all these years if he has no major role, and he was as much a central focus of last night's episode as Siobhan was—and more than any of the other siblings or even Logan. His girlfriend, his "disgusting brothers" with Tom, his confession to Logan, his remark that Logan smirked at him while telling him he's fucked up. If the drama is well written, then there's no way he would have such a significant role if he were not significant.

I don’t understand why people complain about Shiv’s writing. She’s a villain, she’s as evil and stupid as her father and brothers, how is this an issue about “straight white male writers…” can women not be villains?

They’ve kept Naomi around this long and have yet to give her a personality or anything to do but stand and smirk. I wish they would’ve kept Sanaa Lathan around longer.

It's funny, R133, that's part of why I didn't like last night's episode - they seemed to rush through financing for Pierce in a matter of minutes.

I found the scene in the diner very sad - here's this self made billionaire and his best pal is his bodyguard.

R134, I agree nothing happens by accident. But the show does skate within the lines when it comes to corporate governance, acquisitions and mergers, etc. so nobody of Greg's calibre or track record could take control of the company, if that's what you mean by win. It's a publicly traded company and the board has fiduciary responsibilities to appoint executives capable of profitably leading the company. Greg hasn't had a single day like that.

R137 Logan in a working-class diner asking his loyal foolish sidekick employee for answers to existential questions = Lear and his fool in the middle of a storm, Lear comining to both too-late insights and thinking foolish thoughts. How the mighty have fallen, and will he learn lessons and redeem himself at all, or will he just succumb to his worst nature and ruin everything before he dies pathetically?

[quote]I do think it's odd from a writing perspective (or rather, I am annoyed by it) that the one daughter gets all the domestic-life focus while all the brothers are all business.

I don't know if that's entirely true; a lot of Kendall's unraveling can be traced to the extent to which he became estranged from his ex & his kids and it appears at least that this only salvation is not to beat Logan but to find away back to them. If anything, I like that the Shiv marriage storyline upends the typical story of the woman being cheated on - she's the cheater and she wears that pants in that relationship.

Greg won’t get the company. He’s got no business acumen and I highly doubt Logan would make him successor just because he’s family.

He and Tom should get the boot.

I would love to see Logan's brother get everything and put Greg in charge.

Again, there is no company to "get" if Logan's sale goes through.

R101 It's crazy to see Sarah Snood in interviews with her natural Australian accent. She's soooooo good as Shiv. I also think I read an interview where she basically said "yeah I am not going to starve myself in order to get ahead as an actress. Fuck that and fuck the expectation." And I agree with her. Anyway, the character of Shiv isn't a model or a fitness instructor for fuck's sake. She's a human being. And they all day drink. A woman in her mid-30s is going to bloat with all the drinking, especially one who's marriage is falling apart. Excess cortisol causes fat to accumulate around the midsection. Etc. I love that she looks like a real human being.

To be sure, those flowy wide-legged pants do Shiv's thighs zero favors. And the tight tank top was awful, you could see her boob fat spilling out over her bra cup. But again, these things happen in real life, so why not? It's shockingly refreshing to see a real woman's body on TV these days.

They had her in a lot of blue and black in the earlier seasons and she looked great. Now she's stuck in the earthtones.

[quote]We're four seasons in and we know Roman is a sexual head case but not why

Gee, I wonder if that unloving monster of a mother he has might have something to do with it.

It was a remarkable episode--especially the Shiv/Tom storyline. Before this, Shiv was in complete control of the relationship. It's clear that Tom was the one who ended things--at least ending his slavish devotion to her. I doubt that ever happened to her, and this episode illustrated the devastating results.

It's no mistake that her hair and clothes were messy. She's been thrown and she's not taking care of herself. Tom, on the other hand, has never looked better. He has moved forward. She hasn't. She's spitting with jealousy that he's dating. There's no indication that she's doing the same. This divorce will be her unravelling because she never expected to get fucked over by him and assumed she's always control him as a lapdog.

I suspect that the successor will be someone/something completely detached from the family. The Pierce deal is setting up the kids to bankrupt themselves and Logan will die--resentful and alone. Roman wisely said they can't make the Pierce deal based on emotion--and then his older siblings dismissed his concerns but did just that--made an bid that will ruin them based completely on emotion.

Logan, on the other hand, did not let emotion compel him to overbid. In fact, once he knew he was bidding against them, he underbid.

Also, they're setting us up for the election of a fascist, which will underscore the tragedy of this family and the impact its dysfunction has created for the entire world.

Dagmara gets to fuck Patrick Wilson. Lucky!

Greg- Kaiser Soze

Last night was the first episode in which Cousin Greg really got on my last nerve. He's been around long enough to know not to bring unvetted street trash to Logan's birthday party. Bragging to Tom that they fucked in a guest room when in reality they stuck their hands down each other's pants like they were children playing 7 Minutes in Heaven at a play date. Is he still a virgin? Like, what is his deal? I have no patience with his "gee whiz" energy currently.

Tom wasn’t wearing his wedding ring when he called Shiv from the restaurant or at Logan’s party, but when Shiv came to their apartment that night he was. He was sleeping with it on (unless he quickly put it on when he heard someone there, possible if he knew it was Shiv).

So I guess he doesn’t wear it in public, but puts it on at home? However, in the previews for the upcoming episodes he’s wearing it out again. I don’t think he’s quite over the relationship and was hoping for a reconciliation.

Fuck off, R145.

The conflict between people is what makes drama interesting.

You're so stupid I can't believe I even replied to you but seriously, fuck off.

This show has been more of the same from day one. If it weren't for the good acting and the glamorous production values, it would be a nothing show. It's tedious, repetitive and repetitive, and repetitive.

R93 - agree completely. He wants to move on to do something new, take risks, while the others just want to stick it to Dad. Also, I continue to find Roman (and by default , I guess, Kieran), so fucking hot. My god.

I would guess Jesse Armstrong thought so, too, and that’s why he isn’t doing a season 5. Good for him. We can’t keep going round in circles.

The acting is fantastic. Especially Tom. He’s so weird and pitiful sometimes, but other times a pretty solid guy. Hope he gets away from Shiv. He’ll probably end up being Greg’s assistant or human footstool.

Kieran has really pretty eyes in the little behind the scenes interviews they play after the episodes. However they lit him makes his eyes really light up nicely.

Conversely, Matthew McFadyen always looks like he’s about to cry in his clips. He has very watery eyes.

[quote] especially one who's marriage is falling apart.

Oh, dear!

That last scene with Shiv and Tom was so cool because we've all been there, saying the exact opposite of what we want, trying to get the other one to say they're sorry and it's all their fault and let's try again.

None of the men on this show do the slightest thing for me. I am amazed others find them attractive.

It seemed like shiv was trying to not let Tom say anything at all. She didn’t want to deal with ‘feelings’

But we know they do discuss it a little because it was in the trailer for this season. They might as well have it out.

One thing I've noticed is how much Logan influenced Kendall away from his relationships. The girl on the boat who said "Awesome" too much. The Pierce woman because she was a Pierce. Logan really wanted Kendall to be completely alone without support.

Permanently, r21. With writing of this caliber your quotes must be exact.

The cater waiter story isn't dead (ha)! Two mentions in the catch up clips? Kendall's going to be in prison or at least broke from a lawsuit before the show ends.

This episode was far too obsessed with penises (but I loved it).

Nan is the successor.

R161 - now that would be hilarious. Her negotiating was hilarious. Everything I say I despise is exactly what I want.

Maybe the only reason Logan was okay with Shiv marrying Tom was he knew he could control Tom. The other children seem incapable of forging permanent bonds with others.

Something for you, R80 ...

A January 2023 press release. Suggests we'll see a lot of old faces: Caroline, her husband, Ewan, Tabitha, Sandy Furness (the father), Marcia.

Kerry's hair bothers me.

It's weird to me that Tom would be so snobbish about Bridget's bag last night (though of course it was almost entirely just to needle Tom--Tom always likes to show off he knows the codes of the wealthy to Greg because Tom is the outsider from St. Paul), but no one says anything about Kerry's weird hairdo which makes her look like a dominatrix.

A tv show about powerful assholes. How refreshing.

Kerry looks like the girl from that Law & Order episode with Robert Iler. She and Ilyer are step siblings whose parents are murdered. Ilyer murdered them because he wanted their money. She gets him by testifying his Dad died first and then her Mom so she inherits everything.

[Quote] …but no one says anything about Kerry's weird hairdo…. R167

Maybe because they all know she’s sucking Logan’s dick and value their careers more?

Kieran is hoooooooot. His haircut this season is almost Hitleresque, but it's really, really working

I love every scene with Connor and Willa just to look at Willa's facial reactions when he speaks--she is so over him, and thinks he's an idiot. All she cares about is the money.

R21, we were in Milan last week and it’s a luxurious place to vacation and shop.

They opened a Bulgari right inside the airport, and there was a different color 2023 Maserati parked in front of the hotel every single day of the week.

new promo though seems more much more to come...

Makes some sense of Logan, Roman and Shiv.

Sarah Snook's accent is good but her mugging for the camera is almost as distracting as Jeremy Strong's over acting. I LOVED Peep Show, which is why I've watched this, but I don't think the acting is all that great. It's very showy, or noticeable. And the dialogue is unnatural. It's not funny or revealing like Peep Show, it's just clever for its own sake. No one talks like that.

I did find all the ahs and uhs and hemming and hawing irritating last night. Shiv's the worst for it.

Gerri was great though: I don't know what the news is and it's beyond my purview and I'm walking away. A Lucille Bluth for 2023.

[quote] And the dialogue is unnatural. It's not funny or revealing like Peep Show, it's just clever for its own sake. No one talks like that.

I agree. Not everyone can be Clifford Odets, Paddy Chayefsky, or David Mamet. That's the only time I can accept highly stylized dialogue. Jesse Armstrong suffers the same problem as Aaron Sorkin, where his dialogue never sounds realistic and forever calls attention to itself. Actors love it because it allows them to chew up the screen. Yet I find it annoying.

Where can one watch Peep Show? Netflix? prime?

Shiv looks really fat. They should have had let Tom and Shiv have sex and written the pregnancy into the show.

Or worse- don’t let them have sex and she got pregnant from another guy. And the only way she’ll stay with Tom is if he pretends it’s his and raises it with her.

But I’d rather not add *more* drama to this show.

Peep Show is free on Tubi, PlutoTV, and Youtube.

Peep Show is one of THE best and funniest shows of ALL TIME!

They were shooting in June of last year and she said she's due in mid May so she was just fat for a lot of the shooting.

Thanks r182. I will check it out.

Has anybody ever read the crawls on the ATN screens?

China hack could see 40M Americans entombed in their electric cars

Deep State blunder: classified info displayed on NBA jumbotron

One of the ATN chyrons last season read: “I smiled at her by the photocopier—now I’m facing chemical castration!”

I love the stylized dialog, dense, smart and funny. This first episode was classic “Succession,” mean, eloquent, hilarious, full of ‘fuck you’ energy followed by doubt, regret and self-loathing. It’s heaven.

R186, yes! One of them said something about X million transsexual immigrants coming to the US or something like that. I think it was in S2.

"Why are so many of our older celebrities dying?"

[quote] This season, the running gag that appears in the updated title sequence, is a chyron that reads, “Gender fluid illegals may be entering the country ‘twice’.” The crawl below it boasts two headlines: “Supreme Court Justice wants to create a ‘Supremer’ Court” and “Is ‘sweetcheeks’ hate speech now?” As ridiculous as they may seem out of context (or even within the context of the show), these lower-thirds are not that far from the reality we face when we click on a news program (or when we’re forced to sit and reluctantly consume the news at a doctor’s office waiting room or an airport terminal). (Just take Kellyanne Conway singing Taylor Swift‘s lyrics at her on Fox News, for example. Each day we dip further and further into a dystopic uncanny valley.)

“ILLEGAL TRANS IMMIGRANTS REGISTERING TO VOTE TWICE”

I love this show beyond measure, every piece of it.

I never knew there were all these hidden easter eggs. Now I've gotta watch the whole thing again.

[quote] “ILLEGAL TRANS IMMIGRANTS REGISTERING TO VOTE TWICE”

Oddly, this sounds very much like one of the anti-trans trolls that post here daily!

[quote]no one says anything about Kerry's weird hairdo which makes her look like a dominatrix.

The season is young, my dear. And Logan is old.

[quote]They should have had let Tom and Shiv have sex and written the pregnancy into the show. Or worse- don’t let them have sex and she got pregnant from another guy.

See above.

I hope there’s no baby. But if they do have shiv get pregnant, it won’t be Tom’s kid. He’ll stay with her and raise it anyway. Dumbass.

Who has Shiv been having sex with recently who is not Tom?

Maybe Nate. Random hookups? No one? We don’t know yet.

Cousin Greg turns me on. I like nerdy cute guys.

Cousin Greg is an idiot.

Cousin Greg pretends to be an idiot.

The old Tom & Greg dynamic of Tom fucking with Greg featured in this episode, with Tom lording over Greg his supposed superior knowledge of the intricate ins-and-outs of elite world they are in and goading him into making a fool of himself to Logan. But then Greg was the only one to read Logan correctly when he demanded "roast me": he wanted a sparring partner to punch him in the face and then stay down he kicks them in the nuts. This is the role his non-Connor children usually occupied and Greg proved himself an "honorary sibling" in that moment. He's not a business genius but I can see the final company board choosing him as a blood-relative puppet CEO that jets around like a looser Zillenial Zuckerberg giving the company a new youthful, "progressive" facade while the same old power runs things. Logan might like this arrangement as his life's work still technically stays in the family AND he'll piss off his brother one last time before he fucks off to the Great Beyond, by poaching his grandson, irrevocably. He will die alone.

Kendall is either going to jail or dies pathetically (he's the Cordelia; Logan's "No. 1 Boy" who keeps being too honest with him, but in efforts to break away from his father rather than to bond with him in truthful emotion- though that is actually what he wants).

Shiv is gonna end up out of the company like she started, but not by choice, perhaps pregnant, and well on her way to becoming her mother (getting a dog first didn't change the trajectory!) Still married to Tom, who will need to suck up to Greg to keep his job.

Roman might find himself spiritually wreck by the whole ordeal, working under someone else (Sarsgaard maybe?); he has some good business sense but he'll never be top dog. Perhaps he'll find peace as a bottom dog.

Connor will be rich people "broke" after embarrassing himself on the world stage (even more). Willa will still cling on, because rich "broke" is better than real broke. They'll retreat back to Arizona or whatever.

No way does Greg take over. The show generally dwells in the real world as the basis for its craziness. From a fiduciary point of view there is no way Greg could be appointed by the board to the CEO job. They have a legal responsibility to act in the best interests of the shareholders. Putting a thirty-something with no experience in charge of a billion dollar corporate would not happen. Massive lawsuits. Immediate takeover target. Armstrong is quoted as saying if you want to know where the show is going look at the FT and the WSJ. The creative team would have to abandon all sense of reality, which they haven't really done so far.

Agree with most of what R202 said.

They came close to facing an important truth in the "therapy" episode - I think Logan has come to realize that his sons aren't him in part because they weren't "forged in fire" by physical abuse and poverty the way he was by his uncle. His children are talented, but spoiled, and it is too late to "fix" at this point. They all have a desperate combination of starving for his approval and hating him for all his games.

Random, but I have this feeling that Frank is going to die. He's something of a surrogate parent/friend for Kendall, and that could be used as a last draw to push Kendall into either an OD or cleaning himself up.

The family is of course various flavors of despicable. They do a good job of giving everyone some sympathetic moments. Kendall's breakdown about the waiter and the finale of Season 3 are the strongest moments for the kids, but everyone is badly broken in one way or another.

I despised Tom from the beginning, he's got one of the most punchable faces I've ever seen, but he might be more capable than any of the kids. He and Greg should either beat the hell out of each other or become lovers.

But there not really being any good guys is kind of the point of the show.

They should circle back to Greg and Tom’s first meeting when Tom asked Greg if he’d kiss him. This time Greg should say yes. And then they do.

/end show

I could totally see an Alan Bates Oliver Reed Women in Love type fight that turns into ripped shirts that becomes full on real boar on the floor.

Oink for your sausage, little piggy!!

A nice essay.

"Nan Pierce, the twinkly matriarch of a liberal media empire, turns out to be almost as corrupt as the old bruisers of right-wing news she professes to despise. An elegantly constructed scene in the latest episode has her piously insisting that she hates talking about money, while simultaneously negotiating a deal that will make her a multibillionaire."

The Nan scene was pretty genius.

Archived version of Times article

I'm glad they're letting fifteen-year-old boys review television shows, r208.

Naomi's haircut in the first episode reminded me of one of Sharon Stone's hairdos in CASINO.

R210, I hope you feel better now.

C'mon r210, he doesn't look a day under 17.

He's thirty, BTW.

Does anybody think Logan and Kerry aren't fucking? Because everybody's thinking they are but we've never seen or heard anything to confirm they are. I mean they probably are, but sometimes I think there's more to it, different than what it appears.

Why, in that last scene, did Tom offer to fuck Shiv? I can't work that out.

Kendall probably made Greg suck his cock for the condo.

R216 b/c he still loves her? I don’t think he wants to get divorced.

Who knows if he’s really fucking those models or just telling Greg/other people he is.

When Greg and Logan were sparring, Logan made a reference to his brother/Greg's grandfather "sucking cock at the county fair." Anyone else catch this?

I don't recall a previous reference to that character (played by James Cromwell) as gay or a closet case. But it kind of tracks in a way, since he's been portrayed as basically a liberal do-gooder to Logan's right-wing opportunist -- but also equally nasty as a person.

I was struck by how smart and competent Tom was in this episode — as the messenger/intermediary during the tense negotiations with Logan seething with rage, he remained cool and had good judgement.

It wasn’t Greg’s grandfather, it was Greg’s dad. He is gay and left Greg and his mom when Greg was a kid.

Ewan isn’t gay.

That we know of. It’s possible, but not likely.

Caroline tells Greg that his father was gay in season 1, episode 9, “Pre-Nuptial,” when Greg arrives at the church for the wedding rehearsal.

And your father was trying to sleep with every man in Sausalito.

I can't keep track of Greg's side switching!

I did laugh when Logan said everyone should smell his fingers though.

R215 I'm surprised that Logan can still get it up.

Thanks r221 and r223, I had completely forgotten about that.

I usually get annoyed when DLers want to two on a TV show to fuck, but I could totally see Tom and Greg having sex.

It's obvious that none of them are going to succeed to the top and the whole empire will fall apart, but, if that doesn't happen then it's also obvious who will win:

Bran Stark

[quote] Why, in that last scene, did Tom offer to fuck Shiv? I can't work that out.

Well, first of all, he may well genuinely love Shiv as far as he is able.

But also: he doesn't want her to leave him. As this episode made clear, he is not confident he will be able to prevent himself from being canned at Waystar Royco unless he's married to shiv.

Cherry Jones (Nan Pierce) seems to be everywhere. She’s keeps busy with one gig after another.

R216 Even though I sort of understood it intuitively, I admit that the way Tom worded it, "Would you like me to *try* to fuck you?" was really strange. That kind of faux-selflessness sounds sweet but when you really look at it, it's very insulting. Sort of like "Hey, I am the guy who takes one for the team. I'm the guy who offered to go to prison for Logan. And even though you're a bitch who broke my heart into a zillion pieces, I'd be willing to try to fuck you right now."

R231, Cherry Jones just has this great presence. She reminds me of Colleen Dewhurst.

Tom got a pass because he was married to Siobhan. He didn't have to constantly worry about his position the way that Frank (canned in episode 1), Gerri, Karl, Karolina, Cyd, Hugo, and others do.

Very nice comparison, r233.

I hate Hugo.

If Shiv and Tom really do split, I wonder if she hooks up with Mencken.

There seemed to be a lot of hostility between them. A potential hate fuck?

Cherry is THE grande dame of the American Theatre. If only she had the time to do another play.

Tom was communicating his contempt for Shiv and her lack of desirability.

“I don’t want to fuck you— in fact I doubt I could get it up for you. But I guess I could try…”

I think it’s more about Tom’s insecurity and desperation to remain relevant that has caused his flaccid dick in the past, hence the comment about trying to fuck.

I agree much more with r240 than with r239's interpretation.

Matsson will pound Roman's ass, giving him hours of shameful screaming pleasure.

He should hook up with Cousin Greg. Two tall boys. Yum.

R239 R240 Remember when Tom swallowed cum because he thought he was supposed to? He didn't know it was a joke?

I think Tom, at the least, connects sexually when he is dominated, forced to surrender to another's pleasure. Humiliation has always been a leitmotif of how his character experiences relationship. Oinking like a pig at the hunting lodge in Bulgaria (Hungary?).

I always imagined Siobhan fucked him in leather S/M garb... forcing him to dress in a French maid's uniform... he didn't like it but he knew surrender to the Mistress was his only choice. Etc.

Tom references dildo use while he and Siobhan are on the beach in Greece in season 2, episode 10, "This Is Not for Tears," so you might be on to something, R244.

R202/R204 - please get a fucking blog already and knock it off with the long, incessant pontificating. Nobody here is asking that you drone on in reply after reply with your academic assessment of a functional story on a cable TV show. Get out, get some fresh air and maybe take a break from your TV…and Datalounge. Sounds like you need it.

Jesus, calm down, R246. What are you even doing here if you don’t want to discuss, post or read about “Succession”?

I can 100% believe Shiv used a strap-on on Tom. That absolutely seems like something she’d do, and he’d take it (even if he wasn’t really into it). She’s in charge there.

I’m pretty sure Succession writers are reading this thread, gripping their laptops with white knuckles and hearty chuckles!

R246 is quite the stupid asshole.

It's funny how some posters get absurdly territorial about certain topics. I mean funny in the easy to laugh at sense.

It has never jibed that Shiv is spoken of as having the reputation of the likeable liberal conscience to the general public. She is a perma-smirking, snide jackass with everyone, not just her brothers and Tom.

Nan played the Roys, kids and Logan, right? Frank is the one who learns that the kids are visiting Nan, and relays that information to Karl, Gerri, and Tom. It was established in season 2, episode 3, "Hunting," that Frank is close to both Nan and Naomi. Either Nan or Naomi made that call to Frank to engineer the bidding war.

r246, I've called the orderlies to come administer the enema and suppositories you require right away--we can hear the pain you're in.

Nan Pierce is a great adversary to Logan Roy, and I'm happy they brought her back. I'd love to see a spinoff featuring Nan Pierce and her family.

Shiv is, to me, the most fucked up, cynical, jaded and hardened of the Roy siblings.

And that is saying something.

Shiv has to sociopath, fuck-up, and self destruct backwards and in high heels.

Roman needs to be aggressively topped by his gorgeous trainer, with Gerri looking on and telling him what a worthless fuckup he is.

Such a slime puppy

The podcast is very insightful, as it's the creative team. Reading between the lines the series will end with a succession (this has already been said in more than one place so not spoiling.). I don't think the writers believe any of the kids are able to do it or deserve to. Some fascinating insights into what fuck ups they are regarded as.

That's pretty spoiley, R260. Really wish I hadn't read your post now.

R261, am totally speculating. The podcast doesn't have the usual may contain spoilers warning so I wouldn't count it as indicative. They gave no clue as to the ending, only that they think the kids are useless.

R260 Is this the podcast hosted by Kara Swisher? (I can’t bear her.)

It is hard to imagine any of the kids being any good at running the corporation. Roman's too mean and too pervy, Kendall's too broken, Shiv's too paranoid, Connor is an idiot and doesn't want it, and none of them are big achievers. Their idea for "The Hundred" sounded stupid (as Shiv eventually more or less admitted to Roman).

R236... yep. Felt the same way but the insight was good.

^ for R263.

Kendall had it in him at some point, but his dad broke his spirit a thousand ways to Tuesday. That's the thing, none of the siblings, and none of us voyeurs, will ever know what any of the kids could have been capable of. Logan created four emotional cripples. He thought it was his job to toughen them up, but he took it too far and crushed them. Instead of forging their characters in the fire of his mind games and emotional abuse, he only made them scared, insecure, incompetent, and both figuratively and literally impotent.

[quote]I usually get annoyed when DLers want to two on a TV show to fuck, but I could totally see Tom and Greg having sex.

Matthew Macfadyen and Nicholas Braun have insane chemistry on and off the screen. Braun has given interviews where he just blurts out that they're "kinda dating in real life" and "love each other". Also, he said at last years' Emmys, he and Macfadyen were nervously "had (their) hands on each other's legs under the table" when their category came up. Macfadyen, who seems really miserable on the red carpet, really lights up when he's with Braun.

[quote]Tom was communicating his contempt for Shiv and her lack of desirability. “I don’t want to fuck you— in fact I doubt I could get it up for you. But I guess I could try…”

I don't think that's what was happening, but one can easily point out Shiv's backhanded compliment re. Tom's post-separation looks:

"You look good, did you get ripped for all the models?", suggesting that he was previously soft and out of shape.

Hollywood is clamoring to work with Matthew Macfadyen now that Succession's wrapped -- and good for him. I hope he does a Broadway play as well.

[quote] Hollywood is clamoring to work with Matthew Macfadyen now that Succession's wrapped -- and good for him. I hope he does a Broadway play as well.

His Minnesotan accent is so good when he plays Tom that I often forget that he's English in real life. Well-deserved Emmy win last year!

His accent skills are Tom’s SAUCY SECRET!

Shiv appeared to be chubbing up in the trailer - the actress is pregnant.

[quote]Hollywood is clamoring to work with Matthew Macfadyen now that Succession's wrapped

He's just joined the cast of Deadpool 3, of all things.

Scene between Shiv and Tom in the apartment was stunning. So well written and flawlessly acted. Loved how Shiv looked like she had just gotten home from traveling - makeup was pretty much gone and her hair looked like shit. The actress is beautiful but she still manages to look like a real person on the show.

Also loved the scene with Brian Cox and the security guy in the diner.

R268 sounds like Braun has a crush. I wonder how he’s doing now that filming is over and he doesn’t see Matthew everyday.

I’ll console him.

Tom will probably end up in jail and Greg will probably send him there. He made the same mistake Greg made when he bet on Logan and lost 200 mil of his grandfather’s money. In the end, Logan and Shiv are family: no matter what Shiv does Logan will always forgive her, and no matter what Logan does, Shiv will always run back to him because he’s her daddy. For outsiders like Tom, there’s no winning strategy here.

Isn’t the prison thing resolved? I didn’t see all of season 3, so prison might still be on the table idk.

I do think Greg’s the kind of guy who would visit Tom in jail, even if he were the one to put him there. He’s a dope.

Jesse Armstrong said the show will end in a way that won't piss viewers off. Paraphrasing but he said something about no stunt like cutting to black.

The quipping between the siblings is funny but it gets exhausting, as does the endless business jargon. (Yes, I know this is about business . . . ) I agree the first new episode was incoherent.

It is established in season 3, episode 7, "Too Much Birthday," that Waystar will need to pay a fine for cruises, but that no one would be going to prison. In episode 3, season 9, "All The Bells Say," Gerri characterizes the size of the fine as "historic."

What was incoherent about the first episode? I could follow it very closely. Logan is irritated and lonely because the children from his second wife have abandoned him; they outbid him on the Pierce deal; Shiv and Tom are separated and are planning to divorce; Connor and Willa are getting married, but he wants to maximize the publicity for his wedding to help his presidential bid.

Looks to me like Logan kept ATN apart from the GoJo deal. My new theory is the kids get sucked back into Loganland because the pricetag of the Pierce deal boomerangs on them. Then the alliance fractures and it's back to the same old bullshit, except hyped up. One of Shiv or Roman lands Kendall in it over the dead kid in the UK. Or maybe Logan does it in a reverse press conference or interview like Kendall did to him.) The season focuses on manipulating the election. Logan dies. (out there, somebody targets Mencken, the fascist Roy candidate and Logan literally gets caught in the crossfire. A bit Dynasty but maybe.) One of two things happens To end it: either Nan Pierce takes out ATN, using the kids' money in part (and possibly partnering with Sandi and Sandy and Stewy) or Marcia ends up holding all the cards via her position in the trust, which she specifically asked for as part of her apparently pretending to reconcile bag of treats and goodies) and she offloads it.

Here's the cast list for season 4 from the last HBO press release. All the familiar faces back, including at least one not seen since season 1.

Does anybody think GoJo doesn't happen?

[quote] either Nan Pierce takes out ATN, using the kids' money in part (and possibly partnering with Sandi and Sandy and Stewy)

Extremely unlikely.

Nan was acting for the entire Pierce family when she negotiated the buyout last episode: the other Pierces will want their money now they've cashed out. They're not about to let her reinvest it--she's not a mogul like Logan, who can act alone in most business deals.

Me!

Who hasn't been since since season 1, R284?

I love that some Dataloungers clearly want very deeply for Nan Pierce to become Alexis Colby.

Nan did huge fanservice by dealing Logan a flat-out defeat for us to watch.

R288... Tabitha's back. Didn't she disappear after the wedding? Or was it after S2?

I'm wrong. She was parts of seasons one and two.

Tabitha was last seen in season 2, episode 8, "Dundee." She is last mentioned in season 3, episode 9, "This Is Not for Tears."

She’s back to suck Tom’s dick again maybe?

Actually, I bet it’s cousin Greg’s turn.

I'll admit to half-expecting to see Greg and Tom just making out at some point.

R161. Just watching this episode again. Kerry indeed says Marcia is in Milan shopping "forever," not "permanently." It's "forever," exactly as I'd correctly quoted in R21.

With writing of this caliber and all....right, R161?

[quote] With writing of this caliber your quotes must be exact.

This is one of the most pretentious, cringeworthy quotes I've ever seen on DL.

I half laugh, half loathe the pretentious territoriality of some posters when they have a fixation. The royal family, Miss Crawford, Broadway, cooking.... there are some amusing old pets on here.

R276 Braun has himself a reputation. I don’t find him attractive, but apparently he gets lots of pussy. He co-owns some bar in Brooklyn(?) that he uses to score. Look up the bar and see if he’s game. It should be easy to google it.

299 posts after one episode? Is this one of those threads with two or three obsessed loons constantly talking to each other?

Thanks r299, but him being a giant pussy hound won’t help me much ;)

Was it just me or were Logan's gestures during the speech right out of Hitler's playbook?

Matsson was really stupid to drunkenly call Kendall and try to bully him.

Logan's such a skilful liar.

Connor kind of broke my heart a little bit for a minute there.

There was a moment in time when it looked like this show could have been great. It is not going to be regarded as a great show, though. Nobody is going to remember Succession when it ends later this season. It had a chance and it blew it.

Industry is a much better show.

Is industry on hbo max? I might watch that next.

Yes, R306.

I wish we knew Connor's story--how his mother was destroyed by Logan, and why that broke him. I wonder if we'll ever get it.

Roman is the Cordelia of the kids—it’s not going to work out for him either.

The women's costumes are always so unflattering. Shiv's in particular, but was Cherry Jones wearing a beige striped awning last night? With an ascot? Geri looks fat.

Cherry Jones was not on the show tonight, and last night there was no new show.

[quote] His Minnesotan accent is so good when he plays Tom

You are obviously not from Minnesota if you think that.

He has no actual Minnesota accent. Just a vague Midwestern one, which is perfectly fine for his the character given that he would want to hide to the rest of the world he is from Saint Paul. But it is definitely not a particularly Minnesotan accent.

That was utterly fantastic tonight. I agree the story is repetitive, but man, they keep it interesting.

Alan Ruck was excellent. I definitely saw flashes of Cameron from Ferris Bueller in his face this evening.

Thank you, r312, even though you folks from the Cities always say you don’t have accents. I grew up in Northern Minnesota, so there was no escape.

Nicholas Braun is definitely not chasing pussy at the bar he owns with (Justin Theroux), r276. He is openly gay, even if the jury is out on Cousin Greg.

I knew there was no way Willa was going to leave Connor. Even with a pre-nup, he is the best deal that ever happened to her since wshe previosuly was a whore.

[quote] Thank you, [R312], even though you folks from the Cities always say you don’t have accents.

We definitely have accents. If Tom had a Twin Cities accent, you'd hear it in his short "i" sounds, as in the name "Shiv."

It is odd to me Kendall is not more attuned to Roman's propensity to betray him since he already betrayed Kendall the first season at the big board meeting.

This was an exciting episode, but I am actually looking forward to Logan's inevitable death this season (which the showrunner has already all but confirmed) since it will change everything for good

I liked that Greg finally seems to have figured out this episode no one outside the family dares fire him, and since he's been kept around so long at this point even the family members are unlikely to do so.

R315 I swear I just heard him give an interview where he said he was dating someone. And that she wanted to be a producer. I don’t think he’s gay.

But if he is, hell yeah!

He's not gay and certainly not openly gay. Not sure what that poster was talking about.

R312 That’s perfect! I can’t stand when PR people would rather their clients look like sex obsessed philanderers than just be openly out or a question mark. I just hope he didn’t feel cornered into it due to the rumors.

Ok, I officially give up. If he’s straight I hope the rumors that he’s a sex obsessed douchebag aren’t true. If he’s gay, I hope he’s happy and safe.

This is a breakdown of the main characters and their levels and type of narcissism and how it defines their roles within the family as well as their piss poor decision making.

I overextended on an espresso machine.

Kerry the nepo whore needs to be brought down a peg before this is all over, I can't stand her.

Sorry—I overcommitted.

Kerry’s audition tape was hilarious.

Kerry works my nerves.

Promo for next week.... my impression is that everything is beginning to crumble now... Roman and Ken have already broken the sibling alliance to one degree or another.... the link below suggests there's a lot of discontent and betrayal... I'm not even sure the deal with Mattson survives. I got the subtext Logan regrets it... he's struggling with his place in the world when he's not on top of his whole empire. I pity ATN if he's at work every day. I think it's like an earthquake... everything's rattling and shaking and you're not sure what or how it breaks apart, but it's breaking apart around you.

Why was Gerri cut out by Logan when he was setting up the meeting after seeing the kids and failing to get them onside?

It crossed my mind that when Connor’s phone identified Willa’s location at the East river, that she jumped in to kill herself, especially when her phone wasn’t detected by Connor’s.

Was glad the plot didn’t go there.

Willa provides relief from the Roys

Logan was already souring on Geri throughout S3, she has generally counseled against some of his more aggressive plays, and then her pervy little thing with Roman was publicly exposed and I think that was pretty much it for her in Logan’s eyes.

Last night’s episode was great. They maintain such an intense emotional pitch, I don’t quite know how they do it. Connor’s big scene at the end felt like something Alan Ruck had been waiting to do for four seasons and he really brought it.

[quote]Connor’s big scene at the end felt like something Alan Ruck had been waiting to do for four seasons and he really brought it.

Came on here to say what you just said, R332

Shiv is unhinged

I was confused why Kendall changed his mind after the call from Mattsen saying he'll walk away from the deal. Did he figure that Mattsen was bluffing? Didn't seem like it to me, but I guess it must be.

I was wondering about that too, r335. My thought was that either Kendall sensed weakness in Mattsen’s bullying, or maybe he’s actually trying to sink the whole GoJo deal entirely. That of course would in turn sink the Pierce deal, but we can never be sure Kendall is operating from a rational place.

I think Kendall wants to blow up the deal. Why else not tell the sibs about Mattsen’s call?

My theory, too, R337. Kendall wants the deal to collapse because he is under the delusion if it falls apart we're back to forcing Logan out and Kendall taking over.

I think Gerri was cut out because Logan had already worked out Roman was, as ever, the weak leak (based on the texting back and forth between the two of them) and was already planning to reel Roman back in. After the dick pic stuff, he did not want Gerri (or is it Jerri?) around as a distraction for Roman. He needs Roman under his control. He sees a vulnerability given Roman's thing for Gerri.

I am also a Willa fan. She's a nice presence. I thought it was a nice touch that she returns to his bed, as much as to him, given the history. I also thought the siblings actually seem to like Willa, which kind of surprised me.

I have never seen the show more widely Machiavellian. They're all assholes, but Logan (and Marcia, arguably) was really the only one who gamed it. Now, with varying degrees of success, they are calculating every move as close as they can come to the Logan style. I am impatient now for next week. It's starting to boil.

You saw the difference between Logan and the kids in the karoake room. They're all going to get billions out of this and they're pushing for maybe an extra hundred million. Now I heard the writers' basic contempt for the kids as incompetent business people, so much of the script makes more sense.

FYI this summer all the scripts are being published and for sale on Amazon. I love reading scripts, to see the direction and to see what was cut.

The kids are doing the worst thing you can do as a businessperson, and that's making decisions based on emotions rather than logic.

Kendell is about to fuck everyone. I tend to root for Kendell but honestly, it always comes back to the fact that he's delusional, and he wants to be the top dog but he doesn't have a vision grounded in realty. He's got a messiah complex.

Shiv suuuuuucks. On every level.

Roman is the only one I trust to think straight. He just wants to do business, in theory. But he's weak and wimpy and his heart belongs to daddy .

I feel awful for Connor. He's totally impotent. He has zero say over any of the business stuff, but it affects him equally.

R340, and that's where Roman is as useless as his siblings. He cannot remove his emotions from it.

My new theory is this... somehow the Mattson deal collapses. Mattson is furious and goes hostile because he wanted those assets (less the news division), so enlists Sandy and Sandi and Stewy and God knows who else is amenable to helping make it so. The kids are fucked somehow because they overpaid for Pierce. Internal loyalty has never been weaker, because Gerri and Frank and Kerry and all of them see the ship taking on water. In the end the Roys have money but not influence.

I got the feeling the Mattson call gave Kendall the idea to scuttle the deal. I think he wants to blow up the Go Pro deal to fuck Logan.

I didn't get that. Mattson was pretty threatening.

Did the Cyd actress have a stroke IRL or is that just terrible plastic surgery?

Hollywood Reporter (reviewers have seen the first four episodes): "I have to be a bit candid, though, what with this being a sort of review: I thought the season’s first two episodes were among the show’s weakest ever, which is to say, “Merely very good episodes of TV,” while I thought the two after that were possibly the best hours the show has ever done."

R332 R333 Yep that moment:

[quote]You’re needy love sponges, and I’m a plant that grows on rocks and lives off insects that die inside of me.

What a line, and where does that creative articulation come from? On one level, the plot of the whole serious spins around and around, the same story over and over, but then there's view into the depths of a character and its harrowing. Shiv so desperate to hurt her father. Roman so desperate to love his father and get approval. It's Lear-scale drama both in terms of kingdoms and the confused and fragile heart.

I think Logan’s going to die in episode 5. I’m ready.

R347: why then?

Ep three is the wedding

Then I think they’re going to visit Mattson next episode

And it seems like we’ve seen most of Logan’s scenes from the Season 4 trailer already. Unless they’re keeping everything after episode three a secret, I think Logan will be gone.

It’ll be good. Half the season with Logan, and the last half everyone has to figure out what to do since he’s gone.

I don’t want to watch half a season without Logan.

Well, buckle up, fucklehead!

Just kidding. Logan is a great character. I’m glad I don’t have anyone like him in my life!

Only morons give up billions for one hundred million. Especially morons who rounded up a buy-out offer by five hundred million just so that it was a round number.

Stewy and Sandi aren't morons I wonder why their angle is here...

I hope we see Harriet Walter this season as Lady Caroline, Logan's ex-wife and the mother of Kendall, Shiv and Roman. She's such a nuclear-level cunt, all of her scenes have been fantastic. You just think "thank god I never had a mother like that!"

[quote] Cherry Jones was not on the show tonight, and last night there was no new show.

Oh, for Christ's sake, the poster probably watched the premiere episode at a later date than originally broadcast. Don't be a pain in the ass.

When Kerry was giving Greg shit over bringing an un-vetted date to Logan's party, he brought up that he was a cousin and "honorary son" and Kerry scoffed at that. I think that scoff's gonna come back to bite her in the ass, because at the end of the day Greg IS family, and she's not. She's way overconfident of her position with Logan, but if he suddenly drops dead, as is speculated, Kerry will be fucked. Marcia may be "shopping in Milan forever", but she still wields the title of "Logan's wife".

R356 I don't quite understand the relationship between Logan and Kerry.... his being so very careful about her audition tape, and making it clear that he "had nothing to do with it"... (and seemingly understood that it was laughable?). And if she's a sexual partner, he still treats her like the help, but gives her important tasks to do... is she an exec or simply an assistant? And what did he do to prompt her to introduce his purposes at the meeting at the karaoke room... "he wants to talk about feelings first..." talking about Logan to his kids in the third person. It's all pretty odd.

I predict:

At the end of episode four, Logan walks in to Mattson completely railing Roman and dies of a heart attack mid rant. Then Roman feels guilty…for a minute, but gets over it pretty quick. Roman moves to Norway or wherever with Mattson and lives happily ever after. Fuck everyone else.

When are you all going to learn Logan isn't going anywhere. Shiv keeps talking about how he's lost his mind. He's 10 times smarter than those three knuckleheads put together. Idiots.

Did anyone else notice they finally mentioned Connor's mother? That Logan had her institutionalized. Wonder what the story is behind that.

In season 2, episode 8, "Dundee," Roman says that Connor's mom was "sent to the booby hatch."

[quote]Roman moves to Norway or wherever with Mattson and lives happily ever after.

Don't forget about the Justin Kirk character though. His mug was on the TV screens last night so technically they had to credit him as appearing in the episode. I wonder when he'll show up again.

Ooh you’re right. I did forget about him. He’s a wildcard here for sure.

Just caught the second episode. I couldn’t get into episode 1 but 2 was fantastic.. Every scene with Tom and Gregg was hilarious and still the drama works. Just a superior show.

I agree R363. It was fast paced but not frenetic.

I thought Connor was fantastic. I thought the scene at the bar with the whole family was fantastic. The plot moved and not in a circular way.

Also, Roman had about five or six one liners that me laugh out loud.

I was quite meh about episode one, so this week gave me hope for the rest of the season.

I wonder about Connor's mom. In one episode he expressed dislike for his sibling's mom. Until the "booby hatch" comment, I assumed he was raised mostly apart from his siblings.

Connor is much older than his siblings. By the time Shiv and especially Roman were born, he would've been out on his own.

R366 How much older is he supposed to be? Alan Ruck is 66, but I thought that Connor was supposed to be younger since Brian Cox is only 10 years older than him IRL.

R366 someone needs to watch the intro... he's clearly not that much older than them, unless those kids are some other family

I think the actors are great and the dialogue is clever but I'm starting to think that every episode is the same fucking thing over and over again.

r369, basically every episode in the same:

*The three younger kids go to a surprising and glamorous location (though glamorous for very different reasons from episode to episode).

*Logan either meets them there or (more often) talks to them by phone.

*Sometimes Connor is there too, but sometimes he is not.

*Sometimes Tom is there too, and sometimes he is not.

*Greg is wherever Tom is.

*Everyone haggles over their phones with different people.

*The people who are meeting in person share in witty badinage.

*It usually ends either with the kids screwed over by their father, or happy because they think they've put one over on their father (even though of course they haven't).

I think Kendall flipped after the Mattson phone call because at heart, he's a spoiled brat who hates anyone telling him what to do (except Daddy, but now that has changed). Roman apparently has talked to Mattson before this and since he has learned to survive by learning to tell when the Alpha in the room is at breaking point (because otherwise he gets hit for being, in his words, "annoying"), he takes Mattson his word. Shiv is just on a warpath to hurt Logan; I wonder if personally hearing from Mattson would change her mind, but I doubt it. Connor is the only sibling that has (mostly) given up on his father ever loving him and he knows he needs to disentangle himself, but nothing less than greatness will do to fill the void (hence the Presidential campaign) and he can only get that with the help of his dad's money and influence. In 40-something years he has failed to use Logan as a launching pad, so he's as stuck as the rest of them, but semi-aware of the nightmare.

If nothing else, this show is masterful in writing shitty characters with sympathetic inner children without ever losing sight of their horrible strengths & self-destructive weaknesses.

[quote][R366] someone needs to watch the intro... he's clearly not that much older than them, unless those kids are some other family

Well, Ken is supposed to have just turned 40, and Con is way older than that. I think he's supposed to be in his mid-to-late 50s, but unfortunately Alan Ruck can no longer pass for being a decade younger like he did in Ferris Bueller.

Also, I don't think the kids (not the little ones, anyway) in the intro are supposed to be the Roy kids -- for one, the little girl looks nothing like Shiv, who would've had very light hair. In this season's first episode there's a picture in Logan's study of little Roman and baby Shiv, and they look a lot more like Kieran Culkin and Sarah Snook (it may in fact be them) than the kids in the intro.

I am probably wrong about this because the plot often goes in a direction I didn't see coming, but I had a thought while watching...

A big deal was made of Greg bringing his girlfriend into the inner circle at Logan's birthday party. A fair amount of screen time was dedicated to explaining onscreen what was foolish about that, which seemed weird to me because who cares unless it was telegraphing something.

Willa, who serves very little purpose, really—Connor is basically a side character with no influence, and she's his reluctant hooker-fiancée—has been getting a lot of screen time. Connor really is only ever shown to be foolish, making poor decisions that punish him.

Connor's brothers both told him to keep Willa because he can't do better, while Shiv told him to let her go.

It couldn't be clearer that Willa does not want to marry Connor and doesn't care at all about him or respect him.

If Logan really wants to fuck over the kids, he could be paying Willa to rat them out. She is always hanging around appearing disinterested but hearing everything. We assume she is ignorant and doesn't understand their world, but she is positioned within the inner circle, parallel to what Greg got in trouble for with his girlfriend, she has access to all their business plans, she is only in it for the money and doesn't care about Connor at all. And there is no real explanation for why she is staying other than to marry him for his money, and if that's it, the amount of screen time she gets really makes no sense.

Also consider that Roy's wives and girlfriends are all laughed at and overlooked and dismissed by the kids the same way Willa is, but they are always among Logan's closest business advisers and confidants. Logan actually respects the minds of what one might call his hookers, his versions of Willa, who come and go from his life but who serve useful purposes. Maybe he has been involved in Willa's presence in Connor's life all along...

I know this makes zero sense but I've always wondered if Connor is Logan's biological son. In season 2, I think, they mentioned that Logan had a sister named Rose and that what happened to her "wasn't his fault." Did Logan's Dad rape Rose and that resulted in the birth of Connor, who Logan agreed to take care of? We never did find out what happened to Rose. When they had the celebration about the merger with PGN, one of kids told Holly Hunter's character to mention Rose. She did and that went over like a lead balloon.

R373, good thinking, but too soapy. I think that's why their big twists work - they're believable even if you didn't (or couldn't) anticipate them. Look at Italy... his stunt was entirely believable... wrote a divorce agreement that essentially never ended, leaving him the capacity to reopen it to suit his own needs, and he know his ex-wife who hates him is still greedy enough he can buy her off with a house. It was convenient but not unbelievable. When Kendall broke ranks and went awol at the press conference at the end of season 2, that was melodramatic but didn't rely on anything soapy to make it happen. Kendall just did the unexpected.

Maybe I'm forgetting something but with all their twists, they play it pretty straight.

[quote]Did Logan's Dad rape Rose and that resulted in the birth of Connor, who Logan agreed to take care of?

I thought Logan and Euan went to Canada as boys, where they were abused by the cruel uncle. A baby wouldn't fit into that. Again, too soapy.

Thanks, R376. I thought it might be too soapy. I just hate that they gave us the intrigue of a sister Rose and then it died on the vine, no pun intended.

^ Not to mention how Connor would have turned out if that happened.

Alan Ruck said Connor Roy is in his 50s. It works, as Ruck easily passes for 10 year younger.

It’s as if they made the intro before casting the show, or without telling whoever made it what the adult kids look like.

Episode 2 pretty interesting. Greg trying to tell Carrie the TEEvee career ain't happening, ha ha. A LOT more corporate spit-balling, which gets old, but at least in this case, it's generously interlaced with vicious sibling insults, which are funny. I thought the scenes with Shiv with the karaoke club room in the background were stunning, colorwise. But that girl has got her some CHONKY ol' man-hands, and she's constantly on her phone.

Kendall on the phone with Mattson definitely had an “I’m sick of people barking bc at me” vibe. I’m not sure if Kendall wants the deal to go through, wants it to fail, or just that moment stopped giving a shit.

R370 nails it! The storyline to Succession never goes anywhere because it's constantly recycling plots from previous seasons. Now we're back to Logan luring in Roman to betray Ken and Shiv when all three were so close to taking him down.

It's the same shit, over and over again.

Wow Ruck looks much younger than 66. I would have guessed mid50s and made up to look older.

The ability of Dataloungers to want EVERY serial drama to become as much like the soaps as possible never ceases to amaze me.

If Dataloungers had their way, Shiv would be using poison paint to redecorate Tom's office, and Marcia would be locked up in an attic room of the long Island house by her evil double.

R386 That sounds like the plot of a universally acclaimed Hitchcock movie.

R386, kinda with you on that.

Oooh! A evil double! I DID NOT see that one coming.

Just watched. R370 was right - this was the same formula.

I was underwhelmed by the first episode and found the second fairly compelling.

I avoided the series altogether until the second season was over and then I found the first season captivating. I don't feel that way at all anymore, although I loved the last two episodes last season, which came after a season-long series of dreadfully hard-to-watch episodes in which nothing happened.

Last season drove me INSANE with all the go-nowhere improvised filler dialogue—no, but...I dunno, yeah? Yeah? Yeah, no. Shiv?—and I have noticed so far this season that that has been pared down a lot, possibly even eliminated. Thank God. I really was on the verge of quitting the show because of it, and I don't think I will ever watch season three again because of all the hours wasted on that bullshit filler chatter.

Well, something IS gonna shift this season. It's the last damn season. Eight more episodes for something -- ANYTHING -- to morph or evolve. What's it gonna be?

I am increasingly convinced Logan dies. Or somebody central dies. Maybe Kendall. All these characters are coming back, like the estranged wife and the kids mother and Tabitha. Even if just for one scene perhaps (like the mother's idiot new husband.) Just seems to be a funeral is natural gathering point. I think the entire point of the last season will be to portray the demise of the company and the family. Those kids are nothing without the old man to hate.

As the showrunner has explained many times, because the show is called "Succession" we will have to see this season who Logan chooses to succeed him. Which means Logan dies.

Didn't they originally plan to have Logan die in season 1? That is absolutely going to happen at some point this season.

Die and not a moment too soon.

A rational ending would be Logan dying and Roman taking over what’s left of the company. I think Murdoch’s younger son took over from Rupert. I think the siblings then become mortal enemy and that’s the finish.

I'm not sure it's so simple as Logan choosing. It will depend on what is left to succeed (if the Waystar deal does go through, they have ATN left and that's it... if ATN is not part of GoJo... it's not clear to me that Mattson offered to spin off ATN as a separate asset or Logan just gets to run it within GoJo.) Then there's the question of how the holding company and the family trust are structured. Logan made changes to rid himself of the supermajority requirement with regard to change of control at the end of last season. At the start of season 1 the kids were up in arms because Marcia was supposed to have two votes within the trust. If that's still the case (and there's nothing to say it isn't and obviously there's nothing to say two lines of new dialogue couldn't change Marcia's standing) but if it holds, you might get three episodes out of the fallout from Logan's death. It really depends how much company there is left to fight over. After last week, I don't think there's any likelihood he's leaving control to any of his children. He does not trust them as businesspeople. The question is does GoJo happen, what does it mean, if it doesn't, can the kids finance the Pierce deal, or do they then have to sell Pierce to their father (or does he buy it when they default?) and then they are sucked back into his world again. There has to be an unholy mess to unravel or, as rightly pointed out, its even more the same old script and cadence for eight more episodes.

IMDB has Brian Cox in every episode this season, so don’t think he’ll kick off before the last episode.

Brian Cox was at the table read for the last episode so he won't die until then, if he dies at all.

You don't have to die to be succeeded at a company.

And to then un-succeed the successor.

He may be in flashbacks in later episodes.

This show is generally about abuse, and abuse happens in a cyclical manner, hence the repetition. The only true way out is *absolute no contact*, which can be logistically difficult even when it isn't emotionally difficult. Conner is the most emotionally emancipated but because he still needs his father's money, he still has to deal with Logan and he still has play nice which means he's in the position to get triggered. Kendall's and Shiv's hate of their father is still emotionally an attachment, and furthermore, they still logistically are attached to deriving resources from him (money from the Waystar sale, money from inheritance, the Waystar company if the sale tanks). Roman is the only one who still admits to his emotional attachment which is why it still manifests in positive feelings (ex. motivation for sending Logan a Happy Birthday text).

I really hope we get time to see the siblings be forced in no contact with Logan by death; then it's sink or swim because the tide has changed irrevocably.

From comments and recaps I'm seeing of the last episode, I feel like the audience is buying into Logan's bullshit. His line, "you're not serious people" has everyone agreeing about the kids. But not only has Logan laid this line on them before, the criticism is coming from a man who is pushing the heads of his news empire into hiring his PA and fuckbuddy for a position in which she is clearly unqualified. And he's hanging around in the news room like a ghoul complaining about an employee typing one email in 15 minutes and too many pizzas in the lunch room not because he's energized and knows news so well and is going to do something amazing with ATN. Its because he's bored and lonely and ATN is literally all he's got left. Let's not forget just what ATN manufactures. Logan is a fucking cancer, not someone to be admired. Turning black bile into silver dollars so he can make his piles of money is not being a serious person either.

Last season, Kendall attempted to leave his dad. He promised there would be "no contact", he wouldn't even speak at his dad's funeral, if he could just take his 2 Bil and leave. And what did Logan do? Reneged on the deal then slid a blade into his son's belly and knocked him down just so he could keep him beholden to him. He needs those kids as much as they need his approval. The truest words ever said about Logan came from Caroline - "He never saw anything he loved that he didn't want to kick it, just to see if it would still come back."

R404 After watching the most recent episode again just now, you have summed it up brilliantly! Just so good. Very astute.

[quote]the criticism is coming from a man who is pushing the heads of his news empire into hiring his PA and fuckbuddy for a position

My impression was that he knows she stinks but he doesn't want to be the one to tell her -- he's making Tom or Greg do it.

She’s a “friend, assistant and advisor,” not merely a fuckbuddy!

Yes, it's true that Logan needs the kids but on the kicked dog basis, which speaks to his own abused and unstable youth. But in the end, there is a ruthlessness and a clear-eye about Logan that none of the kids have. The essence of Logan the businessman (the writers said on the podcast) is his view that everything comes down to a number on a piece of paper and that life is fight for knife, in the mud. Logan will screw anybody in pursuit of the number, but it is the pursuit of the number that matters because money is safety to him. His kids don't lack that sense of security so their decisions are based on other criteria, which he disdains and which to him is why they are not serious people. Because to him nothing matters in business more than the number. He may or may not be right, but he cannot comprehend anything else.

That was a gorgeous line about the Kerry let down: It's like Israel-Palestine, only more complicated and much, much more important.

In the last episode, the supposedly dead cater-waiter from Shiv's wedding walks in with an AR-15 and mows 'em all down.

Except for Greg. He smokes a bowl with him and then they leave together.

R398, Logan describes it as a spin-off in the most recent episode. He tells Gerri, Karolina, and Hugo that Matsson has been "being a prick about this ATN spinoff." ATN will be split off from Waystar's other assets (entertainment and resorts) in the sale.

Except for Greg and Tom. Tom's head is grazed by a bullet, he falls down a flight of stairs, wakes up with amnesia and all he remembers is that Greg is the love of his life.

SPIN OFF!

R386 and Shiv would go into the bathroom after finding out all the good lawyers had conflicted out of her divorce, and remove her wig which revealed as MASSIVE scar on her bald head.

Give us the ‘Disgusting Brothers’ spin off we all want and deserve!

Tom is such a dork. This made me laugh. Logan’s look after was perfect. And then Tom’s immediate regret at saying anything.

He should gtfo of there. With Greg. And his dog!

[quote]He may be in flashbacks in later episodes.

Please don't blaspheme.

I anxiously await THE episode, and I will celebrate it by taking an edible, which I will nurse with red wine.

And I will watch Tom and Greg, isolated once again in an office. But this time, Greg, seated, catches Tom's eye.

And Tom walks to Greg and uses a finger to lift Greg's chin so that Greg's eyes meet stare into Tom's.

And Greg stands, understanding, and removes his clothes.

And Tom unbuckles his belt and lowers his pants and underwear revealing a thick and veiny 8 inch uncut cock.

And Greg, understanding again, lays on the desk - legs in the air.

And Tom spits on Greg's pink hole.

And as Greg's eyes widen and his faces grimaces when Tom's cock first breaches Greg's pucker and Tom bends over to kiss Greg and whisper the most deplorable things in Greg's ear, I will take a massive hit of poppers and I will melt into that dildo I have shoved up my ass as Greg screams and Tom insistently OWNS Greg's bussy.

R399 he dies in episode five, but has it written in his will that he’s to be stuffed and propped up on boxes on the ATN floor- Weekend at Bernie’s style. Even in death he will loom like a hitman Jaws Santa Claus.

R419 That's a reasonable assumption to make

Has anyone noticed that every birthday, every celebration, and particularly every wedding, is always overshadowed by a giant business deal or board decision? Connor's wedding will be no different.

Poor Connor.

R418 I'm afraid you've invited me too far into your psyche. Stop now. Thanks.

r418 's been reading the Tom and Greg fanfics!

[quote]the criticism is coming from a man who is pushing the heads of his news empire into hiring his PA and fuckbuddy for a position in which she is clearly unqualified.

I don't think Logan's pushing them to hire her at all; he's way too smart for that. I think he genuinely wanted opinions on whether she was qualified. When Tom finally was honest and told his she wasn't ready, Logan passed it on to Tom (who in turn passed it on to Greg) to give her the reality check. He kept telling Tom how "unprofessional" it would be for him to get involved in the decision, and "I'm not in this". This was probably a test to see how Tom would handle the situation.

Tom seeing all the lawyers in advance is what Tony Soprano did to Carmela, Shiv should have known that. (And so should have Tom.)

Can someone explain to me what GoJo is?

[quote]I think he genuinely wanted opinions on whether she was qualified.

No, he clearly knew she was terrible. He just didn't want to take the blame for denying her an on-air slot.

"The episode reveals the very ambitious Kerry’s very ambitious designs on a top job at American Television Network, complete with a test reel that’s little more than a formality. At least, that’s how Kerry views it. Logan sees things differently, clearly keyed in on Kerry’s lack of talent for the job, let alone her lack of qualifications.

In an effort to refuse Kerry the job without getting his hands dirty, Logan tasks Tom (Matthew Macfadyen) with breaking the news, who in turn passes the baton to Cousin Greg (Nicholas Braun)."

It is an interesting dynamic—Logan has total power, but he can't fire Kerry, so he tells Tom to, but Tom is intimidated by her and so he makes Greg do it, and Greg is clearly intimidating and Kerry is clearly wielding her power over him.

Kerry has very real power to wield—because she is closer to Logan than anyone. She is his right hand and guard dog professionally and she is his only support emotionally. She possibly has greater influence on Logan in the moment than Tom does, even though Tom's influence is greater than Logan would ever admit.

And yet we all know that Kerry's number-one status is entirely tenuous and temporary. We have seen other women by Logan's side serving the same purposes and with as much power, and they are just disposed of and replaced.

He could throw away Tom and replace him in a heartbeat, or Geri, but he can't throw his kids away.

Brian Cox has given away a lot in interviews that kind of spoils some of the mystery of the dynamics because he has said from season one through the present that Logan genuinely and deeply loves his children. From the actor's perspective, it's not a shallow narcissistic attachment/reflection of himself, but paternal love. Given that, Logan cannot ever dispose of his children even though they believe he already has because they've seen him do it to their mother and everyone else. Cox is playing Logan as a cold and amoral man who has true unconditional love for his children and always will be there for them no matter how deeply he injures them.

R423, GoJo is the name of Mattson's company.

[quote]Cox is playing Logan as a cold and amoral man who has true unconditional love for his children and always will be there for them no matter how deeply he injures them.

But it's not to say he is vulnerable to them. He is not. He may feel sadness and loneliness at the split between them and empathy over their various foibles, but they will never take precedence over the number on the paper. He is of two minds, always.

Kerry is seemingly unable to do the anchor job. It is interesting me that Logan won't give it to her anyway. Life would be simpler, but he's plainly no more sentimental about her than anybody else. Is it that he does not want to be mocked for putting his talentless mistress on air? Or that it could be attributed as a sign he's losing it, making him vulnerable in the big picture? Must be. Why would he care what people thought of him otherwise, after all this time?

[quote]Is it that he does not want to be mocked for putting his talentless mistress on air? Or that it could be attributed as a sign he's losing it, making him vulnerable in the big picture?

It's purely a bottom-line decision. She sucks and the ratings would suffer.

R429 Agreed. For Logan, ultimately, almost all the criteria about making any decision come down to a number on a spreadsheet.

I would love for someone to explain to me the point of the Marcia character.

My issue with a Tom and Greg affair is that they both seem like straight bro bottoms.

I guess Logan can fuck them each with a dildo as they look longingly into each other's eyes.

[quote] Can someone explain to me what GoJo is?

Matsson's Stockholm-based tech company that's incredibly successful in the parallel universe in which "Succession" takes place.

Tom is such a bottom. Greg is switch.

R431... she was his third wife and originally it looked like she was meant to be a bigger part in the family tension. Logan apparently said she was the only person he trusted. But the actress got a bigger, more regular part in another series and is said to have reached an agreement to reduce her role on Succession.

Tom and Greg are the least interesting slash fiction couple since George and Norm on "Cheers."

But at least far better to contemplate naked, R436.

R436 who was George? You mean cliff?

They need an "Alexis Carriongton Colby" or an "Abby Cunningham Ewing Somers" to enter the picture and shake things up a bit. Nothing like an 80s feem fatale.

What is a "feem fatale"? That sounds like Sam Smith.

That's exactly what it is - a Sam Smith !

Get Shiv some shoulder pads!

Kerry will go to Tom, and a cat will claw Tom's tongue as per usual, so Kerry will seduce Tom to get him to say yes, and all hell will break loose.

I don't think Tom is easily susceptible to sex appeal by sex. He does not seem to be very interested.

Once again, DL fans predict this show will become a soap opera. It's as if you are catively calling for bad writing because that's the only thing that makes you comfortable.

Our eldergays want Succession to be Dynasty or Dallas. They're stuck in that time period.

“ Once again, DL fans predict this show will become a soap opera.”

Is it anything more than a soap opera? Logan is just JR Ewing. You get that, right?

[quote]Is it anything more than a soap opera? Logan is just JR Ewing. You get that, right?

He's actually Rupert Murdoch

He's like 80-85% Murdoch and 10-15% Redstone.

I love how some Succession fans think of this show as more than a soap when it follows the same structure as one. I think of Succession as the White Empire, with a focus on cable news conglomerates rather than the music industry. It's better written and acted than Empire, but both have the same circular structure while borrowing heavily from King Lear and The Lion in Winter.

Take away the very stylized, British-sounding dialogue (most Americans, even those in the 1%, do not use "fuck off," "bloody," "rubbish," .etc, the way these characters do), and what you'll have is a nighttime soap that goes nowhere, plotwise. Just like Empire. The pompous fans in this thread remind me of those old Mad Men threads and how those fans would pontificate ad nauseam that it's not a soap, so stop hoping it will become one!

It's not a soap. Soaps are much more basic. And nobody under 40 even knows what the hell a soap is anyway.

Soaps are only basic in that the acting and storylines are over-the-top that border on cheesy and camp. They're melodrama for the lowbrow. It still doesn't change the fact that soap's influence is still felt in many television series, regardless of the "prestige." And besides that, what separates a character like Logan Roy from Victor Newman, JR Ewing, or Lucious Lyon? Nothing. Same prototype.

Even the first season had the obligatory car accident cliffhanger where one of the main characters drives off the bridge and kills an innocent person. I can't count how often I've seen that in daytime and nighttime soaps.

[quote] And nobody under 40 even knows what the hell a soap is anyway.

Luckily for Succession, it's not just people under 40 who watch it.

I enjoy it, but of course it's a soap opera-- it's like Dallas was for my parents' generation. The circular dialogue is tiresome and I agree that this won't be remembered as great tv.

DL is the only place I ever hear about soaps. I'm a gay man in my forties and I have never known another gay man in my age group who has ever been into soaps. I wouldn't even know soaps are still on tv if it weren't for DL.

Succession is no more a soap than The Sopranos was a soap, only Succession isn't as good. So the bitchery is well written but the story goes nowhere. It's like watching Tony Soprano's goons arguing about taking the reigns away from him but nothing happens. Succession also gets dull af because we never really see any of the victims of the Roys' machinations. For me, I can only work up so much interest in a bunch of wicked, fucked people if I can't see how their behavior affects anyone else.

Funny thing. It used to be called black comedy. Or satire.

R454 I think it was pretty chilling when Kendall ended up sitting in the humble tiny kitchen of the house of the boy he killed. That kinda allowed for a peek behind the curtain to see how the Roys' outrageously entitled and destructive recklessness bleeds out and effects normal people. It was very moving.

[quote] For me, I can only work up so much interest in a bunch of wicked, fucked people if I can't see how their behavior affects anyone else.

This is a really good point and it's why, for me, Gomorrah was so moving, whereas The Sopranos-- and Succession-- seems like self-indulgent melodrama.

Dialogue they need to mimic, according to Datalounge:

Kirby: "You bitch!"

Alexis: "If I am, take a lesson from me. You may need it in life."

(I can see Kerry and Shiv saying this to each other.)

Oh, give it a rest already, R444.

[quote]You’re not good enough for me. That’s why you want me. That’s why you love me. Even though I don’t love you. But you want me anyway.

This shit is already a soap opera. And a bloated, incoherent one at that. You don't get any intellectual street cred points for thinking this stupid show is great television. Quite the opposite, in fact. So grow up.

^ Nurse!

R459, what purpose did all the invective serve? Genuinely curious.

R459 Mary!

Where is brave R459 now?

Kerry? You in danger, girl.

The “invective” is your notice that turnabout is fair play. Stop looking down your nose at other posters.

Only you, R465. Well, you and Gerg.

Prediction: Shiv will be fucking Mencken before the end of this series. The hate fuck potential is off the charts.

r465, you're confused as to which poster you're arguing with.

I can't wait until Kerry and Shiv have a fight in the Lily Pond. That episode brought gigantic ratings to 'Dynasty' 40 years ago. Time to revisit it.

Our eldergays don't like Succession because there isn't some glamorous bitch as the star of the show, camping it up and wreaking havoc. They don't understand that the 80s are long gone and that formula is of no interest to modern audiences.

Brian Cox is pretty campy doing his King Lear routine.

The Dynasty fans are also unintentionally hilarious on other threads about other television dramas. It's as if they just don't understanding television plotting unless it falls into certain formulas they enjoy because they're easy to see coming. Remember when they confidently predicted Megan Draper would turn out to be a corporate spy on Mad Men?

[quote] Prediction: Shiv will be fucking Mencken before the end of this series.

Better she fuck Mencken than she fuck Mondale.

I'm 58. I love Succession just as it is and agree there's a level of... understanding... that mistakes it for a melodrama. Though I predict Shiv fucks Mencken.

[quote] Remember when they confidently predicted Megan Draper would turn out to be a corporate spy on Mad Men?

The Mad Men thread were hilarious in their prisspottery. They wanted it to be Knots Landing set in the 60s SO FUCKING BAD. And then there were the OCD shit fits about various minute details, such as some cleaning product that came out in 1964 when the episode was set in 1962 or some cigarette brand in 1966 that didn't have that exact kind of packaging until 1968. The show was JUST RUINED by these things! JUST RUINED.

I advise you then to stay away from The Gilded Age thread then. At least three of them will slap you with a glove if you don't have a PhD in bustles.

Connor's wedding is tonight but I wonder if it will take place. In the preview, he asked his bride to be if she was marrying him for the money.

If eldergays wrote Succession Shiv would be played by some gorgeous Glamazon actress. There would be a scene where she marches into the board room in the middle of a meeting, in a power suit and a wide-brimmed hat, and announces "I'm taking over this company and there's nothing you silly men can do about it."

This is the kind of show that they would rather be watching.

I would watch that show

As Logan has reminded her a number of times, though, this IS Siobhan's first time at the rodeo.

[quote]This is the kind of show that they would rather be watching.

For someone who is so dismissive of the genre, you sure do seem to have all the tropes on recall, alright?

[quote] The Mad Men thread were hilarious in their prisspottery. They wanted it to be Knots Landing set in the 60s SO FUCKING BAD. And then there were the OCD shit fits about various minute details, such as some cleaning product that came out in 1964 when the episode was set in 1962 or some cigarette brand in 1966 that didn't have that exact kind of packaging until 1968. The show was JUST RUINED by these things! JUST RUINED.

Norwegian Catholics in Bay Ridge...

r481 it ain't hard to write hacky dialogue.

r482 that was an epic shitstorm. Peggy Olson mentioned in one episode that she was Catholic and the eldergays went apoplectic. Since Olson is a Norwegian name she couldn't POSSIBLY be Catholic! The argument then turned to a favorite eldergay topic/obsession - the cultural/religious traits of various European immigrant ethnic groups in mid-century America. And of course, which ones were "white" and which ones were "not really white." It was fucking INSANE.

In a later episode it was established that Peggy's mother was Irish Catholic and she was raised in her mother's faith. The eldergays then calmed down and were able to get on with their lives.

Just watching the second to last episode of S3. The PR (Cumfrey?) mentioned there was a group of journalists doing a deep dive on the "curse of the Roys" - Conor's mother, Rose, the waiter. I don't think much gets written intomscripts as a throw away but I an't guess what plot it would drive unless Logan is meant to end up alone muttering Rosebud.

r484, you're remembering it very differently. It was ONE poster who raised such a shitstorm about it, and he would not let it go because he said he as from Bay Ridge.

Apparently Matt Weiner (the showrunner) had come across other people elsewhere who were hysterical about that, so he wrote the special scene where Peggy has to explain her parents were in what used to be called "a mixed marriage" (my parents were in one too--one was Catholic and the other was Protestant).

r486 there was more than one thread.

There use ls to be a separate thread for every episode of popular shows. Datalounge has slowed its pace.

There “used to be” a separate thread.

Kieran’s looking cute this episode.

Well this is a surprise

This is incredible. This is how a lot of people really behave when forced to face the death of their parent.

I knew it. On connors wedding.

Sarah Snook is breaking my heart

The divorce better still be on.

Sarah Snook is also breaking the deck on the ship.

See ya Logan.

Interesting times ahead.

That poor actress who had to play the stewardess giving chest compressions. She must have had to do that hours in the filming.

So the last thing Roman said to his dad was to call him a cunt on voicemail. Perfect.

I liked how Kendall went into asshole-alpha-executive mode to try to control things, and of course he could do nothing.

Shiv's bizarre pantsuit with the gigantically thick legs is so distracting.

There is no grief so deep that can excuse Shiv’s outfit.

Bumbling fools, no one asked if he had a pulse.

Romans going to blame himself.

R393 called it, sort of

I think they’ll get over the death quickly.

In this episode, even

They will never get over this death. That’s the point.

I wanted Gerri to go nuclear before he croaked.

This was such an interesting idea to do his death--by showing the whole thing in real time, you saw how awkward and self-deluding everyone's reactions were, and how cold-blooded the underlings were in covering their asses.

I like Willa.

Well, I guess Brian Cox just won his Emmy after tonight's episode.

Tom re Kerry - "She acting like she caught a foul ball at Yankee Stadium." LOL.

[quote]Well, I guess Brian Cox just won his Emmy after tonight's episode.

Why? He had 60 seconds of airtime.

I won more for less!

I'm lying here thinking: Is he really dead? I mean, of course he's dead, it isn'tv Dynasty. But it was just so sudden and so early in the run. Quite a twist.

Kerry is single now. Greg should shoot his shot! And get taken apart like string cheese.

It really showed how incompetent the kids are. It was just last episode when the big guy told them they're not serious people.

Thick ropes of string cheese

[quote] I'm lying here thinking: Is he really dead? I mean, of course he's dead, it isn'tv Dynasty. But it was just so sudden and so early in the run. Quite a twist.

Yes--just like the Moldavian Massacre!

Finally!

I don’t understand why they made Kerry a bigger character. She’s annoying. As is Willa.

I’m glad The Big Death is done. Better now than episode 8 or 9.

I gotta watch it again.

Karolina is very, very good at her job.

Kieran Culkin is giving the greatest performance on TV.

Quite the shock. I’m not sure the show will be as good without Brian Cox. Maybe they can pull it off.

still to come....

Brian Cox seemed annoyed in the after-credits commentary on the app.

Notable was Shiv's reaction when Roman told her they think he's dead. "I can't have that!"

+1 with r511

Willa provides a port in a storm.

Based on all the interviews with Brian Cox that dropped immediately after the show aired, all of the media knew about this, so it's really remarkable that it didn't leak at all.

This is likely to go down as one of the great episodes in TV history. It certainly dispels the idea that Succession is the equivalent of Dynasty. As for how Logan’s absence will affect the show, the writers have clearly planned for that.

I felt bad for Colin here. He’s sad.

This was a very well done episode. My compliments to all those involved.

What was in Tom’s folder labeled ‘Logistics’? Do we know?

So cyd and Gerri get to stay, interesting.

Tom’s job is in danger. Think he’ll stay married to Shiv to keep a Roy foothold in the company?

I figured Logan had to die this season but I love how the show handled it. Making it so sudden and coming in episode 3 is not what any of is expected. The audience is just as shocked as the siblings as they are trying to process this news. Just a brilliant episode.

And now the show is permanently changed for the rest of the run as we see what this world looks like without Logan Roy and Brian Cox' performance.

I've turned against Tom after giving him every chance to redeem himself.

What could he do to redeem himself?

Hopefully this will end the cycle of the three siblings in rooms having overwrought conversations. But realistically, it won't.

The rest of the season will be a battle to succession. It's a publicly traded company and the Roys don't hold a majority. The promo clearly shows a battle between staff and the kids and you know the kids will fight amongst themselves. I bet the kids wind up with nothing, except their piles of money.

I'm ready for the reading of the will and hoping it's juicy.

I am GUTTED and CHANGED forever.

So grateful to the writers, crew, and cast - but especially Brian Cox.

You have created one of the greatest characters on film EVER!

And we here send you so much gratitude for what YOU have done for us.

Well, how else will they stretch an hour worth of remaining plotlines into 7 hours, R541? Roman and Kendall will take their usual 5 minutes to finish their sentences, with lots of ums, ehs, and stammering. Shiv will Shiv, Greg will come in and interrupt things with inane commentaries and questions, while Tom will stare like a deer caught in the headlights every time when someone tells him something.

Logan left it all to Greenpeace. Calling it now.

Marcia swoops in and gets the money (I hope.)

[quote] I'm ready for the reading of the will and hoping it's juicy.

Kendall and Roman get exactly half of Waystar Royco, and have to see in a year who makes more money! The winner takes all!

I loved Karolina and Frank very smoothly guiding Kerry right outta the picture.

Logan doesn't own Waystar to give away r549, it's a publicly traded company. Though Logan did own a nice chunk of stock, so if that goes to his kids their share of ownership goes higher. They become more important members of the board.

Kerry is gross

They did play that perfectly. R550. Said exactly the right things.

And I loved the ‘Chuckles the Clown’ reference.

[quote] Logan doesn't own Waystar to give away [R549], it's a publicly traded company.

I was joking. That was the ridiculous plot twist they did on "Dallas" that occupied the show for a year after Jim Davis died.

[quote] This is likely to go down as one of the great episodes in TV history.

LOL, you are hysterical. In the clinical sense.

I wanted to jump on here and commune with fellow viewers, but honestly I can't think of anything particularly clever to say right now. I'm just sitting here, stunned. This episode took my breath away. Everyone was incredible. Kieran completely broke my heart.

Thank God for Willa - she revealed her heart and her humanity. So relieved for Connor!

I absolutely loathe Tom at this point.

R552 She really is. Her face is so punchable.

Logan would be sad to know he was officially died in New Jersey.

Tom’s going to end up on his ass at the end of the show. With nothing but his dog.

That sneaky mutherfucker Greg leaked to the journalist, didn't he?

Or maybe he went running to Gerri?

Tom is so evil. He didn't care that Greg lost his uncle but just expected Greg immediately to try to work to protect him.

I was moved by all of the children's horrible existential problem of saying their final goodbyes to their dad who was almost certainly a corpse and couldn't hear any of them. What do you say to the person who has been an absolute monster to you but whom you also love more than anyone else because he's withheld love from you your whole life?

I realized Kerry will walk out of this with almost nothing. She became Logan's mistress far too recently for him to write her into his will, and she's certain to get canned ASAP by the W-R executives.

I don't get the Tom loathing. He's no more or less selfish than any of them, but he was greatly compassionate on the phone with the kids as Logan died. Tom is probably the best drawn character in the show. Fundamentally middle class values, yet greedy, petty, insecure, cruel, servile, yet able to love, keen for affection. I've never seen such a multi-dimensional character.

Absolutely r562. With Logan gone Kerri has no power, no position. Tom was freaking out that his protector is gone but at least he is head of ATN, Kerri was just an executive assistant to a now dead executive.

I don’t see Tom as any worse than anyone, either. He was scared for his job and future when he told Greg to talk him up. He said that based on fear.

Opening from the Hollywood Reporter article made me laugh:

Seriously, folks. These spoilers are as major as they come. Proceed with the utmost caution.

I predict this: the ultimate successor will be almost beside the point. Like Logan's death, the story isn't about Logan's death but the reaction to it. None of the kids will win, so we won't likely much care who succeeds, if there's anything to succeed to. Stewey will conjure up a gang to sell it for parts if need be. It's all about a number.

Sounds like Matsson wants it for parts, too.

Kendall described the company as an antique shop in conversation with Sandy Furness in season 1, episode 8, "Prague."

[quote]Tom is so evil. He didn't care that Greg lost his uncle but just expected Greg immediately to try to work to protect him.

Tom was very, very rattled after breaking the news to the kids, plus he for some reason felt "protected" by Logan and was in genuine fear over his future with the company. He wasn't thinking very rationally. Also, his calling Greg and sending him off on a job mid-wedding was probably just an excuse to talk to him at that moment.

It would be very unlikely for a family member to win the company at this point. Connor doesn;t want it, and Kendall behaved too publicly erratically for shareholders to trust to run a publicly owned company, and Roman and Shiv are completely untested and unknown.

Also, why would they even want it now? The real point to wanting to run it was to gain their father's approval.

Too bad they didn't take notes from DYNASTY, when Cecil Colby unexpectedly died...

Kerri (Alexis) could've been on the plane in a wedding gown, in a surprise wedding on the plane. Before they exchange vows, Logan (Cecil) goes into cardiac arrest. Kerri keeps slapping him across the face saying, "Logan ! Logan! You can't die on me - we're getting married!" While he is still alive, and semi-conscious, the officiate says the ceremony and he squeezes Kerri's hand to say "I do". Moments later, he's pronounced dead - but Kerri is officially his widow.

"...and get the BEST airplane medicine doctor in the WORLD, and get them conferenced in and waiting..."

Oh, Kendall.

Gerri told Roman that none of the children would come through and take over following a succession fight in season 3, episode 2, "Mass in Time of War."

Gerri is on the piece of paper as a stopgap, so presumably she becomes interim CEO of the company while the board decides on a successor.

So will see Marcia again? I know the show has pushed her aside but as she is still legally Logan's wife it would seem weird she if doesn't pop up now.

Well Gerri is already currently the CEO of Waystar r574, so she is going to remain CEO until the board replaces her with someone else.

All I could think the whole time was that if anyone at all but a family member died, the family would have been cold about it and would have treated it like a business problem alone. They 'killed' Geri, uncoincidentally, before Logan died. Only one person cared and he did the killing.

I did also think about how the death of a cruel narcissist parent affects their kids. I've known people who've gone through it and it is more complicated than typical devastating grieving.

And since I keep pointing out the King Lear parallels/subverted parallels...Lear opens with the king telling his daughters to tell him how much they love him and he got two lies and a truth. This series ended the king's life with honest confessions to the king by his kids about how they feel about him.

Also Gerri refusing to comfort Roman when he desperately wants her too was such a powerful scene. She really twisted the knife to say you tried to fire me, we are done.

I was surprised that Kendall told his father on the phone that he hasn't forgiven him. When my mother was dying, I didn't say that out loud even though it was true.

R580 Did your mother do to you what Logan did to Ken?

I loved the Kerry scene and the Willa scene.

Willa is weirdly honest for someone in her position.

"Well, the money and the security do have appeal. But...I'm happy. I'm not going to leave. Not right now."

Having all of this intense drama and heartbreak unfolding on that ridiculous boat with the stupid stars and stripes bunting was a surrealist masterstroke.

It will be interesting to see the kids try to get rid of Gerri if Matsson decides not to go through with the deal. The stockholders may have no reason to get rid of her unless Roman can convince everyone his father was about to fire her; but he has no proof I can think of. He would have to secure the word of everyone who knew (Kerry, Tom, Frank), but whom would they back--him or Gerri?

R585 Roman's siblings didn't even know he was back in with their dad so yeah, there is zero proof that Logan fired Gerri. It would be he said she said.

Tom knew. He called Roman on it before Roman and Gerri had the conversation.

My guess is that Gerri will immediately fire Kerry as soon as she gets a chance, and so she would be a disgruntled employee and no one would take her word. And Frank would absolutely side with Gerri. So does that just leave Tom, and Greg who knows through Tom? Tom would go whichever way is best to give him the best financial deal, but Greg is unpredictable.

“Cox’s”, R538.

R581 Worse, I'm afraid but at that point there was no reason to say anything. I felt I had to rise a cut above and leave it behind, it was over.

It looks like Harriet Walter will be back as lady Caroline. It will be bizarre seeing how she interacts with the kids.

Almost new thread time. Is there one already made?

Done!

Gracias!

Thank you, R593

----

++++

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Fuck off!

The Hmmm Uh Mmm School of Acting.

Fuck off! Again!