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SUCCESSION, Season 4, Thread 2

Carry on, you fucking cunts!

by Anonymousreply 601April 24, 2023 12:17 AM

YOU'RE ALL PIRATES!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 1April 10, 2023 4:13 AM

I found it creepy that Kerry was smiling. People in shock don't smile.

by Anonymousreply 2April 10, 2023 4:13 AM

I agree with a poster on the other thread that something had happened on the plane before Tom made the call to Roman. We briefly see Karolina walk pass behind Tom and her body language is a giveaway that something had happened.

by Anonymousreply 3April 10, 2023 4:15 AM

Waiting for Lady Caroline to appear heavily veiled at the reading of the will, and when she lifts the veil for Shiv to hiss to Tom (a la Fallon to Jeff), "That's my mother!"

by Anonymousreply 4April 10, 2023 4:17 AM

My new theory: Tom and Shiv have grief/comfort sex after he goes home with her and she gets pregnant.

Dun dun duuuun! There’s a soap opera scene for ya.

by Anonymousreply 5April 10, 2023 4:17 AM

R2 sure they do. They act all sorts of ways.

by Anonymousreply 6April 10, 2023 4:18 AM

Previous thread (because OP forgot)

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 7April 10, 2023 4:18 AM

Karolina: We should at least tell Mattson he's delayed.

Karl: oh, he's heavily fucking delayed.

by Anonymousreply 8April 10, 2023 4:19 AM

Hey, um, that was fuckin'.... nuts. That was fucking crazy, right? Whoa, that's so fucking weird. Jesus, wow!

by Anonymousreply 9April 10, 2023 4:21 AM

R8 Yeah that was a great moment

by Anonymousreply 10April 10, 2023 4:22 AM

I also loved Kendall's line about having an "off the rack" funeral for Logan. "Like Reagan's, with tweaks."

by Anonymousreply 11April 10, 2023 4:25 AM

Logan's bodyguard seemed genuinely upset.

by Anonymousreply 12April 10, 2023 4:27 AM

R5 and once she tells him she’s pregnant they cancel the divorce. They’ll soon be just as miserable as before, but this time with a baby.

One not named Logan.

by Anonymousreply 13April 10, 2023 4:31 AM

[quote] I also loved Kendall's line about having an "off the rack" funeral for Logan. "Like Reagan's, with tweaks."

Does this mean Marcia will perform the Casket Dance live on camera?

by Anonymousreply 14April 10, 2023 4:34 AM

R7 that link didn’t work for me. Here’s a link to the first thread.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 15April 10, 2023 4:36 AM

[quote] [R5] and once she tells him she’s pregnant they cancel the divorce. They’ll soon be just as miserable as before, but this time with a baby.

[quote]One not named Logan.

Walter? Joan?

by Anonymousreply 16April 10, 2023 4:37 AM

Barack

by Anonymousreply 17April 10, 2023 4:41 AM

If Shiv were to get pregnant I could see her aborting the baby just to spite Tom.

by Anonymousreply 18April 10, 2023 4:43 AM

Obviously a monumental episode, but also, IMO, a fairly poor episode. Very hammy, and it just didn't feel urgent at all given what was happening.

by Anonymousreply 19April 10, 2023 4:50 AM

Oh, Tom, Tom, you are blind. It wasn't a miscarriage. It was an abortion. An abortion, Tom! Just like our marriage is an abortion. Something that's unholy and evil. I didn't want your son, Tom! I wouldn't bring another one of you sons into this world! It was an abortion, Tom! It was a son, Tom! A son! And I had it killed because this must all end!

I know now that it's over. I knew it then. There would be no way, Tom... no way you could ever forgive me... not with this [italic]Minnesota thing[/italic] that's been going on for 170 years!

by Anonymousreply 20April 10, 2023 4:51 AM

R19 I think you should ask your doctor to dial down your beta blockers at your next check-in. If you didn't feel something during this episode, it's very concerning.

by Anonymousreply 21April 10, 2023 4:53 AM

R20 i could see it happening in a similar fashion. Shiv is cruel like that.

She’d smirk and lean her head back (Negan style) while saying it.

by Anonymousreply 22April 10, 2023 4:55 AM

Why would Tom even expect to have a job? Same with Kerry. Maybe a small job but anything significant? No way. Even Greg would likely be marginalized if not fired.

by Anonymousreply 23April 10, 2023 5:19 AM

[quote] Why would Tom even expect to have a job? Same with Kerry. Maybe a small job but anything significant? No way. Even Greg would likely be marginalized if not fired.

Kerry will be out on her ass, sine she was just Logan's assistant (and mistress). Tom is head of Global Network news on ATN, but Cyd Peach, who loathes him, is his boss, and he is unprotected by Logan over her now. On the other hand, Gerri could throw out Cyd and keep Tom (or promote him). And if Tom goes, Greg probably goes.

by Anonymousreply 24April 10, 2023 5:35 AM

The Peach is not Tom’s boss. Tom reported directly to the CEO.

by Anonymousreply 25April 10, 2023 5:38 AM

Then Tom's got a good chance of survival if the Matsson merger fails and Gerri remains CEO.

by Anonymousreply 26April 10, 2023 5:47 AM

Knew something was up when I heard the critics saying they didn't receive a screener for this episode. Love how his death was handled, out of nowhere, just as it happens so often in life.

r2 You couldn't be more wrong. I was smiling back in college when I heard on the phone our classmate died and I had to break the news to my class seconds later. We're messy primates, we do the strangest things when in shock. It might not be super common and it might not be something you've come across personally, but it definitely happens.

by Anonymousreply 27April 10, 2023 5:49 AM

In the end, he was the boor on the floor.

by Anonymousreply 28April 10, 2023 6:04 AM

It was interesting that Shiv offscreen gave Connor the news that Logan would not make it to his wedding.

Shortly after Connor is told, we find him very upset over some issue with the cake. He's sublimating his feelings of rejection, and his anger over Logan to the minor, silly issue of the cake. One of the ways which Connor has learned to get by.

I agree with the person in the other thread who said that Shiv and the other siblings will ultimately sell out, allowing a Viktor Orban type (white nationalist authoritarian) to come to power, thus ending the United States as we knew it.

by Anonymousreply 29April 10, 2023 6:16 AM

Roman / Geri situation has both their hands tied:

Technically she was fired & this is known by Karolina & Tom.

But Roman shot himself in the foot w/the "sexual harassment" / dick pics.

Curious how this plays out w/both having leverage. I think Geri made a tactical error not giving Roman the hug he was blatantly begging for.

by Anonymousreply 30April 10, 2023 6:19 AM

If Logan had been a better father for just the one day, he would have gone to Connor's wedding, and would have been closer to a major hospital when his heart stopped and might likely have survived.

by Anonymousreply 31April 10, 2023 6:20 AM

If Gerri was CEO and Logan had Roman fire her, who was going to take her place? Think that’s where Logan wanted Tom to go? How long can a CEO position be vacant?

by Anonymousreply 32April 10, 2023 6:21 AM

[quote] Technically she was fired & this is known by Karolina & Tom.

Actually, I don't think she was technically fired.

Roman was asked to give her a verbal head's up, she was being fired but i think she would have had to have had something in writing signed by Logan to technically be fired. So she is still the CEO of Waystar Royco.

by Anonymousreply 33April 10, 2023 6:24 AM

I agree. I think Logan was leaning towards Tom as his successor with Roman in a high level position as well

by Anonymousreply 34April 10, 2023 6:25 AM

^yup

by Anonymousreply 35April 10, 2023 6:28 AM

[quote]

Oh, Tom, Tom, you are blind. It wasn't a miscarriage. It was an abortion. An abortion, Tom! Just like our marriage is an abortion. Something that's unholy and evil. I didn't want your son, Tom! I wouldn't bring another one of you sons into this world! It was an abortion, Tom! It was a son, Tom! A son! And I had it killed because this must all end! I know now that it's over. I knew it then. There would be no way, Tom... no way you could ever forgive me... not with this Minnesota thing that's been going on for 170 years!

You won't take my Mondale. YOU WON'T TAKE MY MONDALE!!!

by Anonymousreply 36April 10, 2023 6:35 AM

If Logan thinks his offspring aren't serious people, how did he thing of Tom as worthy of wearing his crown? Tom palmed talking to Kerry onto Greg. Tom lied to Logan's face about Kerry's tape. How is that savage? He's an ass kiss to those above him and a bully to those below. A true successor should have true swagger. Tom doesn't have that.

by Anonymousreply 37April 10, 2023 6:38 AM

I don't know Logan thought of anyone as his successor. He seemed incapable of recognizing his own mortality, much like rump or Murdoch.

by Anonymousreply 38April 10, 2023 6:40 AM

At least we won’t have any more awkward interactions between Tom and Logan. Tom turns into an idiot around him. He did it last week with the ‘I could give you a kiss from here’ when Logan was on the boxes at ATN, and he was a dope again tonight before they got on the plane.

But, he did good job on the plane, keeping it together. For the most part.

Complicated guy, that Tom.

by Anonymousreply 39April 10, 2023 7:04 AM

I loved how fir a time you weren’t sure if Logan was going to pull through, & then it suddenly hits, like wow, it really did happen. The music becoming more somber & ominous was the moment that did it for me. How genius to have his actual death happen offscreen & not monopolize the episode.

by Anonymousreply 40April 10, 2023 7:34 AM

I don't get Willa being so freaked out and panicky about being with Connor. If you're gonna be a sugar baby, you can do a LOT worse than Alan Ruck.

"Hey I have a guy willing to pay all my bills and isn't Jabba the Hutt!"

by Anonymousreply 41April 10, 2023 9:01 AM

The writers took the note about all the stammering sentence fragments and cut most of that shit out, and for this I am grateful.

My mom died five years ago and it was surreal and mind warping, and I thought the whole episode was well orchestrated to be emotionally believable with the exception of the end. The kids' behaviors throughout felt exactly right until the end when they moved into business mode. I understand they would have to do that soon, but I think IRL, if they were all so grief stricken, they'd need *at least* half a day or so before their minds could really focus on business, and here they seemed to go from extreme bewilnt to business in about 45 minutes.

The business aspect seemed completely credible. I am the comms director for my organization and it does always land on us to look through the chaos going on around us and organize and draft responses proactively even as other people have the luxury of wallowing. Just because if you don't think ahead and plan for what to say and do, there will be a price to pay. Watching the show, the order of operations among people on the plane felt credible to me, and I'm a little amused a lot of people thought Karolina was being a cold bitch about what was going on. She did her job.

by Anonymousreply 42April 10, 2023 10:45 AM

Sarah Snook is really resembling Gena Rowlands this season.

by Anonymousreply 43April 10, 2023 10:52 AM

R11 - is Keri going to be doing the casket dance?

by Anonymousreply 44April 10, 2023 11:00 AM

I feel like the actress who plays Keri studied this video intensively before her scene.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 45April 10, 2023 11:05 AM

[quote]Shortly after Connor is told, we find him very upset over some issue with the cake.

He was upset about the cake before he was told about his father. Shiv and Kendall pulled him away from a conversation about the cake to tell him. He had also complained about the cake earlier in the episode.

by Anonymousreply 46April 10, 2023 11:14 AM

There was no succeeding Logan as his plan was to sell Waystar to Mattson. The only part of the business that would be left was the ATN news division. His plan was to run that while dangling Roman being able to run it after him.

by Anonymousreply 47April 10, 2023 11:23 AM

Keri is so very

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 48April 10, 2023 11:27 AM

Hired or fired, the CEO of a public company has to receive Board approval. That hasn't happened yet re. Gerri's departure. That's why there was so much chatter about board structure in S3 re Gojo (and at other times.) Logan isn't a single majority shareholder - nor does the family appear to be, that's why Kendall could attempt his many dethronings... at the board and certainly the shareholder level, there were combinations of votes that could see Logan replaced. I worked for acompany once where the Chairman had 1 or 2% of the stock, but ran the whole show like he owned 100%, because it was "his board"... a collection of like minded men he'd appointed who he made rich and who constituted a majority on board votes.

by Anonymousreply 49April 10, 2023 11:59 AM

Cox played such an indelible part. I woke up this morning wondering: did he really die? Did I dream it?

by Anonymousreply 50April 10, 2023 12:01 PM

R2

Sometimes people in shock have unpredictable reactions. But we know Kerry is creepy and mean from other episodes.

by Anonymousreply 51April 10, 2023 12:21 PM

R46

And while his complaint about the cake at first sounds superficial, it turns out there's a reason. He associates this type of cake with the cake he was fed as a child to comfort him when his mother was committed to an insane asylum. They kept feeding it to him for a week to shut him up. He called it "looney cake" as a child.

But why wasn't he more of a micromanager on the cake matter? Couples to be married usually test the cake well in advance.

by Anonymousreply 52April 10, 2023 12:25 PM

R43

She reminded me of Simone Signoret.

by Anonymousreply 53April 10, 2023 12:26 PM

His kids are too chaotic to run the company, they should just sell it.

by Anonymousreply 54April 10, 2023 12:27 PM

R41

He can be sweet, but he's also a delusional, arrogant idiot.

by Anonymousreply 55April 10, 2023 12:27 PM

Tom is one of the biggest creeps on TV.

by Anonymousreply 56April 10, 2023 12:29 PM

I loved how the three full siblings responded to Logan's death in character:

--Kendall tried to assert himself by demanding to speak to the pilot and ordering Jess to hunt down medical experts who could do nothing. Bitter to the end (not that I blame him), he told his dying or dead dad that he didn't forgive him.

--Shiv was indignant that death was outside of her control. "I can't have this!" Later, she tried to deflect her feelings with signature cruelty.

--Roman was in complete denial.

by Anonymousreply 57April 10, 2023 12:37 PM

Gerri is going to go medieval for the betrayal. She lucked out with the timing and holds the power by knowing every skeleton in the company and the Roys’ personal lives.

by Anonymousreply 58April 10, 2023 12:48 PM

[quote]I found it creepy that Kerry was smiling. People in shock don't smile.

Kerry was smiling last week while reading tragic news in her try-out tape. It's one of the things the boys were guffawing about while doing their Mystery Science News routine. So I think it's consistent with how she is, probably a nervous response. But, even within the parameters of a show made up of none-too-lovable people, I can't stand her.

by Anonymousreply 59April 10, 2023 1:16 PM

R52 the cake was probably something Willa wanted. And Connor was fine with it until he was told his dad wasn’t coming to the wedding. Then he got upset, and got mad at the cake.

If Logan had been at the wedding, Connor wouldn’t have cared about the ‘loony cake’.

by Anonymousreply 60April 10, 2023 1:24 PM

L to the OG

R to the IP!

by Anonymousreply 61April 10, 2023 1:27 PM

The kids are fucked. And stupid and inept, that's been the whole point the whole show. And without Logan - who they loathed and betrayed and defied- they are nothing.

It's going to be fun to see them fight the C-Suite.

And Tom leaked the death to Greg. Tom is Machiavellian disguised in Midwest politesse.

by Anonymousreply 62April 10, 2023 1:29 PM

That woman Greg was talking to at the wedding was a reporter, right? I think she figured it out that Logan died and Greg didn’t actually tell her.

You think Tom called Greg because he knew he’d leak the news? Or did he just want someone to talk to/tell? He was dealing with a traumatic situation there and maybe just had to say it. I don’t know. I’m not sure he had ulterior motives there except to get Greg to delete his Logistics folder. But he is a snake so who knows.

by Anonymousreply 63April 10, 2023 1:35 PM

Looney cake.

"Logan finds you visually aggravating." I've always felt this way about Greg.

The Greglet conversation.

Shiv blowing off Tom's two (?) calls and Roman, in his last message to his father, asking if Logan is a cunt.

Great episode. I found the kids' reactions realistic and moving. Can't wait for next week.

by Anonymousreply 64April 10, 2023 1:36 PM

He never said “Logan is dead” to the kids so maybe he had to say to to someone. Hence the call to Greg.

by Anonymousreply 65April 10, 2023 1:37 PM

I was confused when Tom called Greg about deleting the file and he obviously couldn't being on a boat, but then it turned out they were still in port, and I wondered if Greg actually got off the ship, as we didn't see him for a while. But I presume he didn't.

by Anonymousreply 66April 10, 2023 1:53 PM

He probably did. Went straight to Tom’s office.

by Anonymousreply 67April 10, 2023 2:04 PM

Yeah given Greg makes his exit from that girl I think we are meant to believe he did leave and go by Tom's office.

Also worth pointing out that Nicholas Braun is currently going through some allegations right now about having sex with high schoolers.

by Anonymousreply 68April 10, 2023 2:23 PM

Disgusting Brother! Wtf, isn’t he like 30?

by Anonymousreply 69April 10, 2023 2:29 PM

I wouldn’t be surprised that last man standing will be Tom, along with Greg as his loyal underling. Tom is the type of bumbling Machiavellian who often succeeds and makes it to the top because of his unctuous brown-nosing.

[quote] Also worth pointing out that Nicholas Braun is currently going through some allegations right now about having sex with high schoolers.

Say what now?!

by Anonymousreply 70April 10, 2023 2:30 PM

But no one really likes Tom or wants him there, right? Karl’s takedown of Tom in the trailer is pretty accurate- dishonest, untrustworthy interloper wanders into the job by marriage, the only guy keeping him there is dead, wife doesn’t like him…

Tom’s going to have to hustle to keep up.

by Anonymousreply 71April 10, 2023 2:37 PM

Shiv and Matsson probably going to hook up.

I’m looking forward to some Askars!

by Anonymousreply 72April 10, 2023 2:38 PM

This has been going around the internet the last couple of days about Nicholas Braun

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 73April 10, 2023 2:58 PM

I keep hoping Karen Carpenter, sorry, Kerry, would pull out her drum set and do Close To You.

by Anonymousreply 74April 10, 2023 3:04 PM

If indeed, Brian Cox was part of the last table read, the final episode will probably either begin or end with a scene leading up to the massive coronary on the plane. And it'll be some information the kids will never be privy to.

by Anonymousreply 75April 10, 2023 3:09 PM

This episode mirrored the pilot so perfectly, but oooh the differences. Logan has a medical event on a plane/helicopter. Kids react and are inept. Frank/Geri is fired, but is he/she really fired?

by Anonymousreply 76April 10, 2023 3:14 PM

Like him listening to Roman’s ‘are you a cunt’ voicemail?

I liked that we didn’t see him in the airplane bathroom, clutching his chest, gasping for breath, falling over. And then someone opening the door and dragging him out. And all the chaos.

I thought it was perfect that the audience found out as the kids did- Tom calls, says your dad is sick, Roman is confused, and then we see Logan in the background getting chest compressions. Shit is real.

by Anonymousreply 77April 10, 2023 3:16 PM

Tom: "Are we good...?"

Logan: "We are good....until we're not..."

I guess they're not good anymore. I think Tom will be pushed out pretty easily now. Maybe even Greg(let) will betray him in some way.... that'd be fun.

by Anonymousreply 78April 10, 2023 3:20 PM

It would be fitting for Greg to betray Tom. He’s got some Roy in him. It’s possible.

There was a part in the first trailer where Greg tells Tom he knows for sure there’s a kill list. Maybe they’re both on it and Greg makes a deal to save his ass.

Really, though, they both should say fuck ATN and find new positions with Matsson somewhere. Or Greg should go run the theme park he worked at in the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 79April 10, 2023 3:24 PM

R63

I didn't necessarily think the young woman was a reporter. I thought the point was that although Greg is a good-looking man with a nice personality, the woman may have been primarily interested in him because he was Logan Roy's nephew.

by Anonymousreply 80April 10, 2023 3:24 PM

R76 The kids aren't inept. There's nothing they can do.

by Anonymousreply 81April 10, 2023 3:26 PM

This was a master class episode in writing, acting, focus on the grieving and not the dead, and of course red herrings!

Only one thing broke my attention and that was seeing Mimi Kennedy as Willa's mother (?) and thinking of her hilarious dental misadventures in the film In The Loop, which Jesse Armstrong co-wrote along with the associated series.

Greg's lighting was harsh this episode, compared to the others', so I wonder if this was intentional as a form of foreshadowing?

And just a thought... in the previous episode what we saw of Mattson, he looked like a homeless man with a bottle of cheap booze in a chair, bored with life and with nothing else to do. (Although at the time I thought it was Diet Dr. Pepper.) He was really counting on the deal not for money but for something to occupy him. Maybe he's on a death spiral as well?

by Anonymousreply 82April 10, 2023 3:44 PM

OK so that wasn't Mimi Kennedy. Still, I thought of her.

by Anonymousreply 83April 10, 2023 3:50 PM

R42 I think they had the kids snapped into business mode just a beat after Logan's employees because they were raised by a man that views people as units of market shares (or whatever he said in 4x01): working through feelings through business/work is all they know. Also they are in a precarious position having been estranged from the seat of power (yes, Kendall you were estranged from Logan, you more anyone), but still connected enough to have a chance to replace Logan as the decision maker, which they feel entitled to but in reality it won't just be handed to them. The tides have changed and it's sink or swim, so they had to at least start doggy paddling immediately or they would be left behind (notice what snapped them into focus was news Karolina & Co. were already drawing up a statement, the first bit of press narrative on the situation).

by Anonymousreply 84April 10, 2023 4:15 PM

R74, lol and thanks!

So help me, Satan, it was staring me right in the face about who Kerry’s hair and face reminded me of and for the life of me, I couldn’t identify it until I read your post.

That has to be deliberate, but why, I guess only Jesse Armstrong knows.

by Anonymousreply 85April 10, 2023 4:17 PM

What is karolinas job? Is she a PR lady? She was pretty good in the ep.

by Anonymousreply 86April 10, 2023 4:17 PM

R86

Head of PR. She's always been capable.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 87April 10, 2023 4:37 PM

Shiv is more likely to have sex with Mattsson then Mencken.

by Anonymousreply 88April 10, 2023 4:40 PM

Mattson is more likely to have sex with Mencken than Shiv

by Anonymousreply 89April 10, 2023 4:41 PM

I rewatched the first season & it all started with Logan wanting them to sign paperwork so that Marcia is basically in control upon his death. I can't help but thinking it somehow will all circle back to Marcia and her attempts to regain power, crush enemies & elevate her (admittedly hot) son. She's got the goods on Kendall, she can cozy up to Tom to shut out Shiv & Roman has no real allies so she might be able to handle him easily.

by Anonymousreply 90April 10, 2023 4:45 PM

Last time Greg was asked to get rid of incriminating evidence he kept some to use to his benefit later. Has Tom learned nothing?

by Anonymousreply 91April 10, 2023 4:46 PM

R89, don’t you remember when Matsson said to Roman last season he wanted some “fresh pussy”? Matsson is all man.

by Anonymousreply 92April 10, 2023 4:49 PM

The kids have a tumultuous alliance with Sandy and Stewie r90, which is a powerful alliance if they can ever get on the same page.

We were told that if all three kids and Sandy and Stewy voted as one group that was enough stock ownership to stop the sell.

by Anonymousreply 93April 10, 2023 4:50 PM

What does Sandy and Stewie want? As far as I understand, it’s to prevent the GoJo deal so Waystar stays one whole huge company. Is that it?

by Anonymousreply 94April 10, 2023 4:53 PM

Just listened to the official podcast. Armstrong emphasized this show is a dramatic tragedy. So I Googled and found: "Usually, the plot of the story follows a gradual descent from greatness to destruction. It’s especially important that the hero end up isolated from all of his friends and companions. In the end, we feel deep sadness and pity (also called pathos) for the hero." Brian Cox kept calling Armstrong a political writer. So I assume everybody falls now, by the end.

by Anonymousreply 95April 10, 2023 5:20 PM

R94 they think Mattson can be compelled to sweeten the offer. They just want more money.

by Anonymousreply 96April 10, 2023 5:20 PM

Thanks r96. Makes sense.

by Anonymousreply 97April 10, 2023 5:24 PM

When Tom made the call, I initially didn't even believe it was real. I figured Logan was telling him to do it to get the kids riled up and confess their true feelings. It took me until we could actually see the flight attendant doing compressions that I accepted it was really happening.

They will definitely be doing a flashback episode. It will be Brian Cox's Shakespearean moment for an Emmy.

by Anonymousreply 98April 10, 2023 5:25 PM

I think it all goes like Ten Little Indians, except succession rights are killed, not necessarily people.

Roman we know won't get it over the dick picks. There are more than one, which Gerri made clear last night. So she's got him there.

Kendall is vulnerable to the dead waiter and his own sloppy addictions. That's a matter of public record but his siblings now know about the waiter (after Italy) as does Marcia (if she returns) and Colin. So he's done.

I'm not settled on why Shiv's done, except she's not experienced enough. She may get caught up in some kind of ruin because of the Pierce deal. That one I can't nail.

I can't figure out why Tom's done except he's an ass and everybody thinks so.

Gerri's out because she was going to be fired. Roman knows it, Kerry knows it, Carolina knows it. It's hard to argue you're right to be CEO when you were about to be replaced for having lost the confidence of the previous CEO.

by Anonymousreply 99April 10, 2023 5:27 PM

No way Brian Cox is not winning the Emmy for his performance. Jon Hamm was nominated for Best Lead Actor for every season of Mad Men and finally won it for the last season. I see the same happening to Brian Cox.

by Anonymousreply 100April 10, 2023 5:28 PM

I was surprised, but not moved by the death sequence. The chaos felt contrived and too orchestrated. There's something about the the choices in the writing this season that feels too studied and self aware. Less organic but still trying to seem natural. The older, veteran actors seem to know how to act around this, but it seems to expose Strong and Snook's limitations the most. I just don't buy their performances this season.

Snook seems so desperate to win the Emmy, but it's coming off as play acting. I don't think vulnerability is her strength. She seems much more comfortable being snarky and bitchy, but ask her to cry and be distressed at her father's death and the line delivery feels unconvincing. It's more of an externalized application of emotions. I see it in her face, but don't always hear it in her voice and vice versa. There's a disconnect between her face and voice acting where the pain levels don't always match. As for Strong, I found him most compelling when he was playing tortured, drug addict coping with a dark secret. After Kendall came clean with his siblings at the wedding, there hasn't been much for Strong to do.

Kieran, however, has gotten more interesting to watch each season. He's always been the funniest sibling and the one who seems the least irritating storywise. They should've made him the hypersexual gay sibling who loves fucking the help. Alas, Jesse is too boring and straight to give this show the juice it really needs. Kieran stole the show as Roman during the first third of the episode. He was the only sibling that seemed to be acting from inside himself. You could feel for him in having to deal with Gerri and his father's passing. He seemed to be pulling from within himself in a way that is much more convincing than Strong and Snook this season.

by Anonymousreply 101April 10, 2023 5:29 PM

Not just DL, R101... the show's creators. On the podcast they were hugely enthusiastic about Snook's performance in the episode.

I agree that Culkin is shining this season but disagree about Snook's performance... I thought it was very real panic.

by Anonymousreply 102April 10, 2023 5:34 PM

Kieran Culkin is more compelling than the rest of them combined.

by Anonymousreply 103April 10, 2023 5:35 PM

What I think was the genius of the episode is how they made us all the kids... for most of the episode you weren't sure what to believe.

by Anonymousreply 104April 10, 2023 5:40 PM

I'm not sure what would be funnier: Shiv maneuvering to get power through hooking up with Matsson or Mencken and being stymied by a pregnancy with Tom, or her succeeding to "level up" through marriage and then realizing she is now the Tom in her relationship.

by Anonymousreply 105April 10, 2023 5:55 PM

I’m not sure matting Mencken would be a step up for Shiv. Who wants to be some grimy political wife?

by Anonymousreply 106April 10, 2023 6:03 PM

Cousin Greg for the win.

by Anonymousreply 107April 10, 2023 6:05 PM

Never.

by Anonymousreply 108April 10, 2023 6:06 PM

R102 Who care about the creators - they're part of the problem. The writing sucks this season, the cast is ugly, there's no gay characters, no diversity, and no male nudity. Snoozefest of Death!

by Anonymousreply 109April 10, 2023 6:08 PM

Never know. He could come out better than the kids or Tom.

I wouldn’t rule it out.

by Anonymousreply 110April 10, 2023 6:09 PM

R106 It would be IF things were looking like she is absolutely not going to get anything but money out of Waystar-Royco's fate, the Pierce deal falls through, and her relationships with her only allies, her brothers, was in tatters after all of the jockeying for power. That said, I do think it's more likely she would make a play for Matsson, hoping he would put her in charge of something media related. That way she can at least feel like she inherited something from her dad.

by Anonymousreply 111April 10, 2023 6:11 PM

Maybe Matsson will take a liking to Greg and Greg’ll go to Sweden to work and party it up.

by Anonymousreply 112April 10, 2023 6:13 PM

This shot of Colin was actually the saddest moment for me. He’s probably the one guy who liked Logan.

And now he lost his pal.

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by Anonymousreply 113April 10, 2023 6:17 PM

R113 And it was emblematic of the episode in general - broad but subtle. Just that one shot in profile. He didn't twitch or need to say anything. No close up. Just he body posture and face.

Shiv too. She was chewing the scenery but also nuanced... it was hard to keep up with her changing tone and emotions because she was torn apart too.

by Anonymousreply 114April 10, 2023 6:35 PM

R98 thought the exact same thing. I kind of think that’s what they wanted us to think.

by Anonymousreply 115April 10, 2023 6:44 PM

I’ve worked in crisis situations. Stressful, but rewarding. It’s a special skill. You’ve got to be the person willing to say the hard things as constructively as possible. I wish they’d had that character. Also, I fell out during the confusion. There’s no way people next to an elderly CEO, who has had health trauma before, would be that unprepared & deer in the headlights. Or landing gear, since they were on a jet.

by Anonymousreply 116April 10, 2023 6:55 PM

The acting was stellar in this episode, they should all get Emmys.

by Anonymousreply 117April 10, 2023 7:07 PM

R117 is Dr. Jill Biden. Participation trophies for everyone!

by Anonymousreply 118April 10, 2023 7:08 PM

R116, right? Wouldn't everyone have there, "so now that he's been gone for 30 seconds, here's MY plan to succeed. It's on this external drive, let me fire it up." At least the executives.

by Anonymousreply 119April 10, 2023 7:13 PM

*their, I edited...

by Anonymousreply 120April 10, 2023 7:13 PM

Jerry will not take control because she does not have enough ownership. However, she may end up coming out the best. The entire family knew how she was being dick pic’s and no one did anything. She has more ammo than anyone. Also, she’s probably taken so much shit from the kids, she might just go into complete destroy mode.

However, I think she is probably the best character for a spinoff. So I figured that will probably happen. Which means her response here will be softened.

by Anonymousreply 121April 10, 2023 7:28 PM

[quote]What is karolinas job? Is she a PR lady?

Her job is getting Patrick Wilson's dick in her every night. Lucky bitch.

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by Anonymousreply 122April 10, 2023 7:50 PM

I was hoping she’d give Roman that hug he needed. She’s colder than I am, and that’s why she’ll probably be okay at the end of the show.

by Anonymousreply 123April 10, 2023 7:57 PM

R90

Considering how long Marcia's been out of the series I find that unlikely.

by Anonymousreply 124April 10, 2023 8:16 PM

R123 He fired her. Even if he had second thoughts, he still did was Logan asked. And they were going to ruin her reputation by blaming her for the cruise ships assaults complaints and saying she was incompetent. That still may happen. Rome can hug his damn self.

by Anonymousreply 125April 10, 2023 8:18 PM

^^^^ what Logan asked

by Anonymousreply 126April 10, 2023 8:19 PM

Even if the actress who plays Marcia couldn't carve out time in her schedule to come back for an episode this season, we cannot rule out the fact that when she demanded the tweaks in their arrangement, she did ask for assurance that her son would be taken care of. What if Logan left is shares of the company to Marcia and her son?

by Anonymousreply 127April 10, 2023 9:11 PM

Hiam Abbass (Marcia) plays the mom on Ramy and she is excellent.

by Anonymousreply 128April 10, 2023 10:13 PM

The official HBO press releases list her as returning. I'd guess just the funeral? The substance of the part will be down to her availability. Her series lst block of episodes premiered in Sept. '22. Succession series 4 filmed from late June '22 so she theoretically was free. She was listed among the cast in the Hollywood Reporter article on the start of filming. I hope Marcia comes back. She could be a great spoiler in the remaining episodes.

by Anonymousreply 129April 10, 2023 10:18 PM

I think for me every possible twist on Succession is for the most part believable. Even yesterday, Logan just died, simply and normally. No deathbed speech. No violent injury. They seem to have no problem squeezing drama out of pretty usual things. I can't see any WTF? plot twists. When you think about most of the jaw droppers - Kendall's blame dad press conference or Shiv blurting out I'm the successor at Tern Haven or Roman and the cater waiter - that's all been plot driven by character (usually weakness) rather than event. It all made sense, none of the moves were bigger than the story of the people.

I could see Kendall ruined on drugs or dead by the end. I could see Pierce somehow emerging to eat Waystar (only for the irony.) It will just be a story of buzzards circling that week by week eliminates characters as successors, even if the characters stay on the canvas.

I agree with upthread that Gerri is in a strong position to make massive mayhem. She won't get CEO but she'll probably take out Roman's shot (which isn't strong) in the process. She seems really, really angry at her reward for thirty years of loyal service. I loved that she didn't hug Roman. She was angry and her revenge was abusing him. He probably loved it.

by Anonymousreply 130April 10, 2023 10:31 PM

"I didn’t want to ask Brian. It’s already incredibly emotional for Brian, rather than to ask him to lie down and play dead for a couple of weeks, or a few days. I didn’t ask him to do that. Getting into the real machinations of it, 90% of the time, it was a stunt double down there. We needed a stunt double, because we had to, obviously, have all these heart compressions, so we needed somebody who could handle having their chest compressed pretty much all day. And it was brilliant stunt performer who helped us with that. Sometimes the camera would skim over his torso a little.

That one shot where you see of Brian laying on the floor, whilst the heart compressions continue, is actually a composite shot. It’s actually the stunt double’s torso, because I wanted the compressions to continue safely, and Brian’s head. We stuck them together in post, and then put some rhythmic action onto Brian’s head to match it."

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by Anonymousreply 131April 10, 2023 11:04 PM

Kendall’s in the water again in the preview. Uh-oh!

Maybe he’ll drown this time.

by Anonymousreply 132April 10, 2023 11:30 PM

R132. Wait, what? I gotta go back and watch that preview again! That's such a deliberate cock tease! He could drown. Or, he could be baptized and born again spiritually. I'm so curious to find out!

by Anonymousreply 133April 10, 2023 11:39 PM

He’s probably just purifying himself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka.

Or somewhere in Sweden.

He didn’t look particularly despondent just regular Kendall face.

by Anonymousreply 134April 11, 2023 12:40 AM

I just rewatched it and there was another tiny moment that was so telling. When Karolina tells the kids over the phone she got a call about Logan from a reporter and they ask how it would get out. She lists three or four possible explanations like tail number tracking and then she names a couple people. The last name is Kerry. The staff would have hated her.

by Anonymousreply 135April 11, 2023 1:21 AM

I enjoy this show but fundamentally, none of these children are qualified to run a company. I get that is the running joke, but it makes all the jockeying for power seem trivial. And how many times have we been at the board meetings with Stewie and Sydney? Every season it’s these stupid board meetings.

by Anonymousreply 136April 11, 2023 2:14 AM

Apparently next week is an hour long conference call, but it's supposed to be powerful. Each episode this series cover one day, although I'm not clear on whether it's one day followed by the next or with days, weeks etc. in between.

by Anonymousreply 137April 11, 2023 2:38 AM

Has to be the latter. I can’t believe this entire season takes place in 10 consecutive days. That’s be nuts.

by Anonymousreply 138April 11, 2023 2:44 AM

Critics got the first four episodes, and at least in the first four all the action does take place back to back. If you look at this episode it opened the next morning from episode 2.

by Anonymousreply 139April 11, 2023 3:24 AM

Jerry wasn’t seen for a while after Roman told her. She could’ve done a lot of damage off camera.

by Anonymousreply 140April 11, 2023 3:37 AM

Jerry should ask for a $10-15 million payout to walk away and keep quiet, maybe more. Just get out

It’s also unclear what any of them want to do, besides collect money. With dad gone, my prediction is none of them want to be a poss. That ship has sailed.

by Anonymousreply 141April 11, 2023 5:45 AM

^ boss

by Anonymousreply 142April 11, 2023 5:46 AM

Gerri did warn Roman that she’s a powerful enemy.

by Anonymousreply 143April 11, 2023 10:06 AM

"Jerry should ask for a $10-15 million payout to walk away"

In an actual public company, Gerri will have a contract that will pay her significant severance for termination without cause (and this is most definitely without cause). She would be able to get much more, though, if the entire leadership of the actual public company knew - and did nothing about the fact - that she was sexually harassed by the primary owner's son. And that she was then going to be fired for doing her job. If she comes forward, then armies of other women will come forward. Any public company would pay almost anything to avoid that.

On top of that, she will also know where all the bodies - literal and figurative - are buried. No one will want to cross her in any public way.

She has unreal leverage.

by Anonymousreply 144April 11, 2023 10:31 AM

Those execs are making $10M a year. Gerri needs a MUCH sweeter payout.

by Anonymousreply 145April 11, 2023 11:31 AM

R141 is POOR. Roman was referring to golden handcuffs. As General Counsel and CEO, Gerri would be looking at something closer to $100M payout or more a la Moonves $120M from CBS.

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by Anonymousreply 146April 11, 2023 11:44 AM

It's right the ~10M is total annual comp for executives at this level. Bear in mind too that this is the company that just paid a historic fine for sex related crimes in the cruise division and now she, a woman in an executive role in her sixties, has a keg full of dynamite. There's a line in the promos for what's ahead where Kendall says something about "reputational drop" (though it appears to be in Norway, I got the impression.) As noted, critics say episodes three and four hit hard and if next week is just a day later, the board meets to decide the short term way forward. Maybe Gerri plays her cards early?

by Anonymousreply 147April 11, 2023 12:00 PM

I actually think not showing Logan collapsing etc. and having an obvious stunt double play him was a huge creative fail for a show that began with us seeing him have a stroke. I’m really starting to think there was major drama behind the scenes and the decision to kill of Cox’s character was based on more than storytelling.

by Anonymousreply 148April 11, 2023 12:17 PM

R139 it did. But I don’t think that’s how it will be from now on. Episode 4 might take place the day after Logan died, but then I think there will be some time between the next one.

But maybe not, They’ve got the funeral and I suppose they could immediately go to Sweden right after to do the Matsson stuff. I would like it spaced out a bit. I think everything happening in a week and a half isn’t enough time for anything to get resolved.

I’m not expecting the show to end in a neat little bow, but I’d like the events to be spread out over at least three months.

by Anonymousreply 149April 11, 2023 12:25 PM

Cox has been consistently outspoken about his contempt for method acting. I wonder if he finally got sick of Jeremy Strong’s bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 150April 11, 2023 12:27 PM

He’s been sick of it since the start. At least now he won’t be asked about it anymore. Every interview he’s asked. In Matthew McFadyens GQ interview from last year, he wasn’t a fan of it either. The interviewer said it was the one time in the three hour long interview Matthew got snippy. Lol.

by Anonymousreply 151April 11, 2023 12:31 PM

Brian Cox, as a British actor, is not going to happily tolerate the foolishness and commonness of American-style method acting.

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by Anonymousreply 152April 11, 2023 1:09 PM

R130 good Post but I don’t agree about Gerri and Roman. The episode made clear that the lackeys no longer need to cow tow to the kids. I don’t think Gerri was punishing Roman. She simply has no use for him anymore. End of. And Roman did not enjoy that complete indifference.

He had genuine feelings for him and he realizes she didn’t for him. That struck me as one of the saddest scenes in the episode.

I suspect the remainder of the show will be about the kids dealing with losing power. I also suspect that the only one who will benefit from Logan’s death is Connor. Seems from previews that he’ll get big enough bump in Presidential race—over 1%—that he’ll gain power by being a potential spoiler in the election and the GOP will come groveling. He’s the only one who has a genuine—if transactional—relationship and Willa seems truly fond of him. So suspect he’ll be only one content at end.

Shiv has been tailspinning and will continue to do so. Suspect she’ll get grief pregnant with Tom, which will only benefit Tom—a permanent connection to the Roys. Kendall and Roman will continue to lead sad, empty lives.

This is based on real life. The kids will remain incredibly rich and incredibly unhappy—with no real power and no real respect.

We’ve yet to see Logan’s will and succession Plan. My guess leaves kids a bundle but no power in company.

by Anonymousreply 153April 11, 2023 1:23 PM

Logan's estate plan will be messy. If it were neat, then the show would end next episode. But his vacillation over who should be CEO will show up in the estate.

I expect Marcia to play a big role (whether or not she currently shows up in IMDB as being in S4).

She was such a great dagger of ice. I'd like to see her and Gerri roll the kids.

by Anonymousreply 154April 11, 2023 1:30 PM

R153 I thought Roman and Gerri’s scene was quietly devastating. The last gift/punch to Roman from his dear daddy. There was no need for Roman to fire her personally but Logan had to force him to do it, simply because he knew Gerri had some influence over Roman. In a way, he destroyed all his kids’ relationships with other people because he simply couldn’t let them go, couldn’t allow them to gain even a smidgen of independence.

That’s Logan’s tragedy: he needed his kids weak enough so that they wouldn’t be able to take him out, yet strong enough for one of them to eventually succeed him. It’s like Catholic church fighting contraception and abortion at the same time. One of these battles you’re bound to lose.

by Anonymousreply 155April 11, 2023 1:46 PM

R153, R130 here. I hadn't thought of your spin on Gerri and Roman but it's hard to disagree with. I did think she genuinely liked him for most of their twisted relationship (as opposed to being attracted to him), and playing him as a useful fool. But I am convinced she turned off the tap on a strategic basis (while still allowing she may or may not in some bit of script yet to come clarify whether there was any genuine feeling there. There's a scene coming up where he tells her she's bad at her job... that should be a reckoning on both sides.) But you're probably more right than I am on the nature of her decision. We agree, she is furious and playing for herself, with a very, very strong hand. I still hold she can't take the big chair but will take Roman's chances out on her way down. I see the whole thing now not as a battle for ownership (which is widely diffused) but for control, which will be a much more surgical process. None of the kids are up to it, none of them have the board votes to get it.

If Succession is the tragedy Jesse Armstrong keeps referring to it as, and Cox knowns what he's talking about in characterizing Armstrong as a political writer, then the next seven episodes are about the collapse of various people's ambitions within this corrupted force in society. I think the final episodes damn the corporation and the people who pervert and sustain it.

by Anonymousreply 156April 11, 2023 2:02 PM

Think again, R148.

by Anonymousreply 157April 11, 2023 2:29 PM

If Logan had gone to the wedding, he would have died surrounded by his loved ones. Instead he died alone, taking a shit. Very appropriate.

by Anonymousreply 158April 11, 2023 3:00 PM

I'm still loving/marvelling at how real life it was. This crazy, surreal titan just has a heart attack and dies and the aftermath is chaotic and confusing.

by Anonymousreply 159April 11, 2023 3:04 PM

R131 pretty smart of them to film dummy scenes with Brian so people wouldn’t think Logan died. He even showed up to Logan’s funeral just so he’d be spotted.

Mylod said there’s no flashbacks; we will see Logan no more.

by Anonymousreply 160April 11, 2023 3:59 PM

I'm surprised there wasn't some kind of protocol in place for when Logan died - yk, like they had for QEII.

by Anonymousreply 161April 11, 2023 4:00 PM

Check the picture at link below (DM so blocked.) Just below Jeremy Strong is the back of the head of a woman with her hair up. Hiam Abbass? I have no idea why I am so fucking invested in the return of Marcia but I loved that character and I want her back for a bit.

by Anonymousreply 162April 11, 2023 4:01 PM

I wonder if Roman feels like he should have been with his dad. (Logan invited Roman on the Mattson trip.)

Of course Roman did the right thing going to the wedding. He should feel good about that. If only he’d blown off his dad’s command re Jeri.

by Anonymousreply 163April 11, 2023 4:01 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 164April 11, 2023 4:01 PM

If the season really is ten consecutive days, I guess that might be too soon for shiv to take a pregnancy test. Or for it to read positive, so maybe there won’t be a grief baby.

For the best.

by Anonymousreply 165April 11, 2023 4:01 PM

Have they even fucked though? Hasn't it been several months since Italy and the most they've done is hold hands when they decided to divorce. In any event, I doubt being pregnant would stop her divorcing him if that's what she decided she wanted to do. She runs hot.

by Anonymousreply 166April 11, 2023 4:04 PM

If they have sex when he took her home after Sunday’s episode. If they do, and the season ends in real time a week after that, it’d be too soon for her to know if she was pregnant.

By Tom. Idk if she was with anyone else.

by Anonymousreply 167April 11, 2023 4:06 PM

[quote]I suspect the remainder of the show will be about the kids dealing with losing power. [quote]

Yep. Starting to think exactly this. It's poignant as hell, because the kids are Logan's actual flesh and blood. They have suffered terribly, mercilessly for this company. Their entire childhoods, adulthoods and chances at true happiness were sacrificed to benefit the company. Yet they have little actual power or say now. The power is divvied up between dozens of cold uncaring execs who only care about numbers and optics. None of those people in their nice suits went through the torture that the Roy siblings have endured, but they now wield control papa Roy's life's work, a global juggernaut that their abused father built from scratch.

The Roy kids aren't respected, they aren't beloved. They have no sanctuary. They've been used as pawns in a cruel game in a cold world.

They have each other though, which should be fundamentally comforting. And time and time again they keep finding their ways back to one another. I hope this changes them. I hope none of them die, and they can move forward with their money and with the wisdom embedded in all the trauma, and do something actually meaningful with their lives moving forward. I hope at least one of the Roy kids wakes up that life is worth more than a market share.

But being as this is a tragedy, it's anyone's guess how this is all going to unfold.

by Anonymousreply 168April 11, 2023 4:07 PM

They should go back to their The Hundred project together. Silly thing, but it’ll have nothing to do with whatever’s left of their father’s company.

Or Roman should do what he said and spend his money on sushi and snowmobiles and fucking live! He’s still youngish now maybe he can live for himself and not his pos dad.

by Anonymousreply 169April 11, 2023 4:11 PM

R168, Mary! They’re all capitalist scum, including Logan’s offspring.

by Anonymousreply 170April 11, 2023 4:12 PM

Wait, guys, what happens with the Pierce acquisition now? It all hinges on sale to Mattsen/GoJo, right. This is such a mess. Can they back out of the purchase? They don't need to stick it to dad anymore.

by Anonymousreply 171April 11, 2023 4:16 PM

R168 Jeez, poor little billionaire kids!

by Anonymousreply 172April 11, 2023 4:22 PM

Best line was when one of the bigwigs on the plane referred to Kerry as "Chuckles the Clown' and nixed her involvement in crafting/issuing the statement.

by Anonymousreply 173April 11, 2023 4:26 PM

R160-Last night on Colbert, Cox said there are flashback scenes to come, and he was part of the final read-through. I'm thinking he shot the heart attack scene in the bathroom of the plane, and came back to read the lines for that scene in the last episode. So the series will end exactly as it began. With Logan having a stroke. Rosebud.

by Anonymousreply 174April 11, 2023 4:29 PM

R173 Karl. He was on it. Chuckles line was hilarious, and when he went for the alcohol, and when he said Logan would be heavily fucking delayed.

I too am surprised there wasn’t already a statement made or a plan created for when Logan kicked it.

by Anonymousreply 175April 11, 2023 4:33 PM

R174 I hope there’s not a flashback to Logan in the airplane bathroom. We don’t need to see him die.

Maybe cox didn’t know what he filmed wasn’t going to be used? It was just a misdirection.

by Anonymousreply 176April 11, 2023 4:35 PM

I used to do this stuff. Normally there is. Templates for every scenario. They probably just bailed on it to set up the conflict between the two sides - staff and family.

It seems unlikely he filmed his heart attack. In the Variety article above the director was clear he wasn't on set for the plane sequences. Hard to imagine anything significant happened in the bathroom to the extent they'd try to put smoke and mirrors around that. Cox was released from coming to set the day they shot the funeral but came anyway, having decided the paparazzi would be there and him being photographed would confuse the notion of whose funeral it was.

by Anonymousreply 177April 11, 2023 4:38 PM

I remember reading Brian Cox say that he ‘felt nothing’ while filming his last scene. Id love it if he was joking that it was because Logan was dead.

by Anonymousreply 178April 11, 2023 5:15 PM

Another choice that bugs me is Karolina saying she replied to the reporter who called her on the plane. Somebody with Karolina's experience would have let it go to voicemail. You always let it go to voicemail. Comms never picks up the phone unless they know the number.

by Anonymousreply 179April 11, 2023 5:25 PM

she probably knew the number

by Anonymousreply 180April 11, 2023 5:33 PM
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by Anonymousreply 181April 11, 2023 5:34 PM

Does anyone else prefer Willa as a redhead/auburn-haired instead of the Ivanka-blonde look?

by Anonymousreply 182April 11, 2023 5:41 PM

R180 - that's the point. In those circumstances, if she knew the number and the number was a reporter, she would never have taken the call. I did what she did for twenty years. I don't think I ever spoke to a reporter live once, unless I was negotiating interview terms or ripping them a new one.

by Anonymousreply 183April 11, 2023 5:43 PM

R175 Especially when he was known to be in ill health. Didn't he have a stroke in the very first ep?

Not trying to derail, but it's mentioned upthread about senior executive salaries. What about a long-suffering PA like Jess?

by Anonymousreply 184April 11, 2023 5:48 PM

R184, in that world... 120 to 200K? They're buying your 24/7 time. It would be a good paying job but nothing compared to what the executives pull down. I'd guess Jess and Kerry both have university degrees, possibly MBAs.

I mentioned upthread I worked for a guy (who claimed to be a billionaire but was probably a hundreds of millionsonaire) who was Chairman of his company. His executive assistant had two homes. She shoulda been a TV character... a thousand years old, Botoxed to the nines, looked like corpse left in a humid room, expensive clothes and a total bitch. But if you got on her good side she was hugely entertaining - but permanently discreet. She gave me exactly zero in gossip... even on her good side you were afraid to push the envelope. She decided to like me after the Chairman lost his shit at me one day and started screaming. As I left the office she looks up and says: It isn't easy, is it? Kind of Mrs. Danvers like.

by Anonymousreply 185April 11, 2023 6:11 PM

^Very interesting; one of the things that always rolls through my head as I watch this show is that I wouldn't last 5 minutes in this world. Granted, these people are like battle hardened soldiers, but still...I'm too sensitive, not strategic enough and not quick tongued. And not attractive enough. I think that's what makes Tom such an interesting character: he never thought he'd be in the same room as these people & even though he's wily & conniving, he's typically one step behind the rest.

by Anonymousreply 186April 11, 2023 6:17 PM

there's an awful lot of ugly in the real world of business, and that stops no one

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by Anonymousreply 187April 11, 2023 6:20 PM

R186, Succession takes all the bullshit of that world and compresses what it doesn't magnify. But having worked in it for twenty years, I am always struck by how much they get right. So much of that stuff makes me think yep, did that. I've been on both sides of a hostile takeover... I remember watching Succession and thinking it didn't seem that interesting when we went through it. But I was pretty far from the big table... more in the seats lining the walls of the boardroom with the big table. Still, bird's eye view. I was talented enough, but not educated enough and nowhere near tough enough to do really really well. I wish I'd had an MBA and understood more about it all. But the truth was, I didn't care, thought it was bullshit and just took the money as long as they were dumb enough to shovel it out.

by Anonymousreply 188April 11, 2023 6:25 PM

R188 Can I have some money?

by Anonymousreply 189April 11, 2023 6:46 PM

R189, I'd say sure except life expectancies keep growing so now I have to plant to live to 900 or something.

by Anonymousreply 190April 11, 2023 6:48 PM

R190 Understood

by Anonymousreply 191April 11, 2023 6:50 PM

R190, life expectancies are actually going down. Since r191 doesn’t know that, can I have some money?

by Anonymousreply 192April 11, 2023 6:53 PM

An executive assistant to a major C-suite exec at a big Manhattan company is going to be in the 110k-195k range r184. With the most highly valued ones clearing 200k plus a generous bonus.

by Anonymousreply 193April 11, 2023 7:17 PM

[quote] Granted, these people are like battle hardened soldiers, but still...I'm too sensitive, not strategic enough and not quick tongued. And not attractive enough.

The actors (other than Fisher Stevens with his weird pencil neck) are more attractive than most real people in the business world are, as is true in most TV shows. And though they are sharp, I think the endless wittiness is not something you'd see a lot of in real business.

[quote] I think that's what makes Tom such an interesting character: he never thought he'd be in the same room as these people & even though he's wily & conniving, he's typically one step behind the rest.

But he was well ahead of the children on the Matsson deal last season.

by Anonymousreply 194April 11, 2023 7:25 PM

"And though they are sharp, I think the endless wittiness is not something you'd see a lot of in real business. "

True. The endless profanity, though. That does happen a lot. Maybe even more in real business.

by Anonymousreply 195April 11, 2023 7:48 PM

Logan’s will doesn’t decide who the next CEO will be. That’s up to the board.

by Anonymousreply 196April 11, 2023 7:54 PM

Logan wasn't CEO. He has already stepped aside (on paper) during the DOJ saga and Gerri was instituted as the interim CEO. Unless I missed something Gerri is still currently the official CEO of Waystar.

by Anonymousreply 197April 11, 2023 7:58 PM

Four seasons to get to the title of this stupid show. Gad!

by Anonymousreply 198April 11, 2023 8:02 PM

Yes, I think you're right, R197. Logan was Chairman, still, but not CEO. R196 is right too.

by Anonymousreply 199April 11, 2023 8:04 PM

[quote] The endless profanity, though. That does happen a lot. Maybe even more in real business.

I've read that in psychological terms, heavy profanity is usually in English-speaking cultures usually is an attempt to signal to your listeners you're telling the truth (whether you are or you're not in actuality). I wonder if that's why it's so popular in the business world.

by Anonymousreply 200April 11, 2023 8:07 PM

r197 is correct. Gerri is the current CEO of Waystar-Royco, and can only be removed through a vote of the board of directors or by her resignation. Logan meant her to be fully under his thumb, but he didn't foresee he'd die before he had officially rid himself of her.

by Anonymousreply 201April 11, 2023 8:08 PM

I wonder every time I watch this if there is any social event these people can let go of business for. It must be exhausting.

by Anonymousreply 202April 11, 2023 8:26 PM

No r202. You don't get to that level by having a job that you stop thinking about come 5pm. Your career and your business is your identity, and you will never let it go.

by Anonymousreply 203April 11, 2023 8:30 PM

Just a feeling but I don't count out Frank as having a major role. Not sure how. Not saying he's winner of the job (or that he wants it) but he's still around after all these years. I think what could happen is somebody like a Frank, Gerri or Carl masterminds a major move that cuts the kids out. Or maybe the Mattson deal falters and the company is sold to Pierce. I just can't believe Armstrong is gonna let evil triumph. Creative types generally want good to prevail.

by Anonymousreply 204April 11, 2023 8:35 PM

but they have more fun with the villain

by Anonymousreply 205April 11, 2023 8:36 PM

This is really a show about how capitalism destroys people. I think sometimes people miss what the show is actually saying.

by Anonymousreply 206April 11, 2023 8:37 PM

R206, that's why I think Armstrong is writing a totally different ending than the title Succession suggests. I'm not sure how, but I can't see him crowing a new king, rather seeing an empire fall.

by Anonymousreply 207April 11, 2023 8:38 PM

that story has been told, r206

the story people want is dallas and dynasty

and that's what we are getting

by Anonymousreply 208April 11, 2023 8:38 PM

Glad I'm not like that R203. That's all I'll say.

by Anonymousreply 209April 11, 2023 8:52 PM

Was Gerri's role playing with Roman always done over phone calls or in private personal encounters? Did she ever respond to his text messages? Could Roman possibly have documentation proving that Gerri willingly participated in the situation? Would that be enough to put the kibosh on any sexual harassment claims?

by Anonymousreply 210April 11, 2023 8:55 PM

Same r203. Keep your 10 mill a year, I’d rather be happy (ish).

Right now I’m on the couch eating original Goldfish crackers and drinking a Clearly Canadian while waiting for Adam-12 to start. Bet those business bigwigs can never do that!

by Anonymousreply 211April 11, 2023 8:56 PM

R210 nope, she could say she feared retaliation if she didn’t go along with it. Something like that.

by Anonymousreply 212April 11, 2023 8:57 PM

Adam-12?

by Anonymousreply 213April 11, 2023 9:00 PM

Clearly Canadian still exists? No fuckin way.

by Anonymousreply 214April 11, 2023 9:02 PM

That makes sense, R212. Plus I would think Gerri is smart enough to not leave her fingerprints anywhere, especially since she was using Roman to jockey for her own position.

by Anonymousreply 215April 11, 2023 9:05 PM

Thanks, R193.

by Anonymousreply 216April 11, 2023 9:47 PM

[quote] Mylod said there’s no flashbacks; we will see Logan no more.

Brian Cox himself has said he comes back for flashbacks which he filmed for season 4.

[quote] Did you have any sort of good-bye once you had wrapped the scenes from this episode?

[quote] I do pop back and I have a couple scenes later on, which is flashback stuff. But I didn’t really see the cast very much. I suppose the last big thing we did together was a retake of the karaoke. There, Logan really says, to me, the truest line in the show: “I love you, but you’re not serious people.”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 217April 11, 2023 9:55 PM

Hmm. Here’s what Mark Mylod said in the Variety interview about the extra Cox scenes:

“Brian’s obviously in a few scenes at the beginning of the episode. How was he feeling shooting those final scenes, and what was that like?”

How he felt is obviously up to him to express. For all of us, it was very sad. Particularly the reality check when we came to do the table read for his last episode, where we’re all gathered together, and we read the scene through in real time. That’s when it really hit us — that this would be the last table read that we had with him. And then, it was the last scene that we would do with him.

Luckily, we’d already put into motion an idea: that in order to try to preserve the secret of this episode, that Brian would be around for subsequent episodes. And would even appear in a much later episode, so that we would see him down the line, and hopefully try to head off rumors that the character had died. So he was always around.

But in terms of being on set and actually playing Logan — yeah, we were just really sad. And I’m damn sure Brian was too.

“Is that a flashback episode in a future episode?”

No, not a flashback. No, the stuff in a subsequent episode, we basically bring him on to shoot dummy scenes — scenes that didn’t actually exist. As a misdirect.

I’m not sure who to believe. Maybe cox is right and the scenes he filmed will be included, or Mylod is right and they won’t and we’re done with Logan.

by Anonymousreply 218April 12, 2023 1:43 AM

Okay so I just watched episode one again. The part where Roman dangles the million dollar check in front of the little kid at the baseball game. And the kid gets almost all the way around the diamond but gets out right at the last second. And then Roman rips the check up in front of the kid's face while laughing.

That's Logan. That's what Logan did to all of them their whole lives.

Amazing paralleling with what was done to Kendall in that first episode. Amazing foreshadowing of what's to come. Amazing foresight to set the whole series up with such a vivid visual metaphor.

Amazing, period!

by Anonymousreply 219April 12, 2023 5:51 AM

R219 Whenever I begin to feel for Roman as a character, I am brought back to that scene in the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 220April 12, 2023 5:58 AM

I keep wondering what Sarah Snook is going to do after this, and whether her directors will let her keep her huge ass.

by Anonymousreply 221April 12, 2023 6:02 AM

R221 Not even funny. Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 222April 12, 2023 6:10 AM

Another full circle moment from ep. 1 - when they're at the hospital and Kendall is trying to undo Roman's promotion to COO, Kendall says to Roman, "I love you, but you're not a serious person."

Fast-forward to the karaoke room, season 4 episode 2. That's the last thing Logan says to the kids before he dies.

Those kids are all just Logan puppets and they don't even realize it

by Anonymousreply 223April 12, 2023 6:34 AM

I wasn't trying to be funny, r222. Unclench. It was a serious question.

If you don't like it, fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 224April 12, 2023 6:36 AM

I'll happily fuck off of it gets me away from the hellscape that created your worldview, cunt. No matter what, you thought it was worth saying, even though nobody went there for over two hundred posts. Unclench indeed.

by Anonymousreply 225April 12, 2023 7:33 AM

It was kind of a lazy reach, R221. Maybe have a think.

by Anonymousreply 226April 12, 2023 11:55 AM

R223, that slapped me across the face, too, though it didn't at the time.

I was watching S1 as well and wondering, in a way, how the show took off because everybody is so awful and there's really nobody to root for. As you get used to it, they become funnier but I think it's just us becoming more desensitised to their unwavering loathsomeness.

The one thing that was reinforced for me was how much Marcia was meant to be a spoiler within the ranks. It's too bad they didn't either recast or that they didn't make a better offer to the actress. Although maybe that reflected the intention Logan should die in the first season, so she became a substitute protagonist and then when they knew they had lightning in a bottle with Cox they let Marcia fade.

The other thing that leapt out at me was the Logan character really seemed close with the Marcia character. The respect and affection was evident. Probably the only normal relationship on the show. From what I've read the marriage between Murdoch and Jerry Hall was pretty normal until it wasn't. Hall was 60 when she married him. I wonder if that was the basis for the Marcia/Logan relationship and age difference... it was interesting they chose a younger wife who was still a woman of a certain age.

by Anonymousreply 227April 12, 2023 12:03 PM

The show was still figuring itself out in the pilot r223. Roman was married in the pilot, did you notice the wedding ring on his hand. That idea was quickly dropped, and his behavior in that episode was too outlandish for how the show was written later on.

I disliked the Succession pilot, glad I kept giving it a chance.

by Anonymousreply 228April 12, 2023 12:07 PM

I didn't think he was married but he was with that woman called Grace... she left him after the Thanksgiving dinner nightmare. Roman was much darker... more drugs, cruel to women, a slut, before they decided to weird him out (which was the better choice.) He did specifically say to Shiv in the pilot: I recognize my own daughter. So I thought he had a kid, but that was dropped too.

I wish they'd get greedy and write an official Succession guide... I'd love to know how the series evolved.

by Anonymousreply 229April 12, 2023 12:10 PM

Yep, in succession pilot Roman is married to Grace and has a daughter named Isla.

Marcia was also named Marcy in the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 230April 12, 2023 12:38 PM

That “you’re not serious people” moment wasn’t true of Shiv at points in the show. She turned down being Chief of Staff to take over her father’s company. And then for some reason it was never mentioned again. Clearly the implication was daddy’s approval matters most, but my god, in real life would that never be mentioned again? I gave up being assistant manager at Chess King to spend a summer working for my dad’s aluminum siding company and I’m still haunted by the choice.

by Anonymousreply 231April 12, 2023 12:45 PM

Pretty sure they were calling Marcia Marcy. I think they were married in the pilot... she was credited as Grace Roy... but that got thrown overboard pretty quickly.

by Anonymousreply 232April 12, 2023 1:45 PM

But Marcia does have a daughter, she was just never named. Amir was hot.

by Anonymousreply 233April 12, 2023 1:45 PM

[The one thing that was reinforced for me was how much Marcia was meant to be a spoiler within the ranks.]

I thought that too - always one step ahead of them, far more conniving than anyone of them - but also mean as Logan, a fist in a velvet glove. But I think if Marcia had the power to be a spoiler in Waystar, we'd know that by now. That seems a little too "Days Of Our Lives" for her to come out the woodwork as a mover & shaker in that world.

by Anonymousreply 234April 12, 2023 3:29 PM

R234, I agree, although they did mention her in E1S4 and little seems to happen by accident in those scripts. Technically, she's still his wife. The whole demise of that character was due to the actress getting another, bigger part on a different show, so her schedules conflicted and the role was reduced - yet not eliminated. I posted a link at R164. It could be Hiam Abbass (back of her head) in a photo taken the day they were filming the funeral. (She's basically standing under the actor who plays Kendall, who is facing the camera, she is facing him.) She is always listed in the HBO press materials so she's coming back. The question is for how long. I agree she's been out of the picture so long it would feel forced and soapy to make her too much of a presence.

by Anonymousreply 235April 12, 2023 3:54 PM

I never read Marcia as conniving to cut the kids out. On the other hand, she was always on Team Logan, no matter what heinous thing he did, and wasn't afraid to show it.

by Anonymousreply 236April 12, 2023 3:56 PM

Yes the Marcia stuff was definitely meant to go somewhere that it never got to go. Especially with that second vote on the board. Maybe that will come back and go somewhere, just having that second vote. Or wait - did she get the second vote? I have to keep rewatching. If she didn't get Logan's slot, who gets it now?

I agree, R236, I never read Marcia as conniving. She actually doesn't have to, because she's secure in who she is and her place in the scheme of things. At least in the early days, she and Logan had a genuine connection. She wasn't consumed with tap dancing to win his approval. He respected her for that and he trusted her completely, because she was a fully realized adult with her own mind and will.

What's weird is that Marcy and Logan connection was established very strongly at the outset as both significant and sincere. He seemed to deeply love her and be loyal to her, and she him. There was zero insinuation in that first season that Logan, at age 80, was in any way interested in, preoccupied with, or even physically capable of, philandering. They were in sync - there was no tension there whatsoever.

It makes me wonder now how long they knew about Hiam Abbass's other impending TV role, and thus how long of a game the writers played to set up her eventual exit (all the stuff with Holly Hunter). If all of that was created just to set up a compelling reason for Hiam Abbass's exit, it would totally change my perception of how deliberate a lot of that season's arc was. I liked the Holly Hunter character a lot at the time. Now all of that seems like nothing more than a long, drawn out solution to a logistical casting problem!

by Anonymousreply 237April 12, 2023 4:13 PM

[quote]I gave up being assistant manager at Chess King to spend a summer working for my dad’s aluminum siding company and I’m still haunted by the choice.

R237 is my new favorite person in the whole world.

by Anonymousreply 238April 12, 2023 4:20 PM

Sorry, that should be r231 but r237 is cool too!

by Anonymousreply 239April 12, 2023 4:21 PM

R238 I was taken by that sentence too. Micro-fiction. A whole short story in those 28 words.

by Anonymousreply 240April 12, 2023 4:24 PM

I see I'm not the only one who instantly fell in love with R231! Glad to be a member of this club.

by Anonymousreply 241April 12, 2023 4:26 PM

So R227, are we thinking that they originally may have intended for Logan to croak much earlier in the series? Have you read anything about that?

by Anonymousreply 242April 12, 2023 4:31 PM

Originally Logan was going to die at the end of Season 1, they have talked about this in interviews.

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by Anonymousreply 243April 12, 2023 5:04 PM

I have read conflicting accounts on that, R242. Most things point to Logan dying in the first season, which makes sense of the writing for Marcia. But Cox, I think, or someone else, claims from time to time that was never the plan.

I agree, the relationship between Marcia and Logan was genuine in the first season - respectful, equal, and loving. He seemed to really enjoy her and she was unafraid of him.

by Anonymousreply 244April 12, 2023 5:06 PM

You can see Amir's bum if you like. Love one of the videos where he drops his shorts, shot from behind, but midway pulls the waist band forward as if he's pulling it over an erection. What an actor!

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by Anonymousreply 245April 12, 2023 5:10 PM

Refresh my memory, anyone? The siblings were all particularly harsh toward Greg on the boat at Connor's wedding. What had he done that put him in their black books?

by Anonymousreply 246April 12, 2023 5:45 PM

R246 He's the enemy. He Tommed-out. Alliegance to Logan and all he stands for. They went rogue, totally anti-Logan, wanted to punish Logan. From their position, anyone in alignment with Logan is shady, can't be trusted, and generally a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 247April 12, 2023 5:57 PM

As far as we know, is Greg still living in the apartment Kendall owns?

by Anonymousreply 248April 12, 2023 6:15 PM

A friend put it to me that Tom now cannot allow that divorce to happen.

by Anonymousreply 249April 12, 2023 7:30 PM

[quote] From what I've read the marriage between Murdoch and Jerry Hall was pretty normal until it wasn't.

That's cryptic.

by Anonymousreply 250April 12, 2023 7:31 PM

There's a Vanity Fair article out that says when Murdoch divorced Jerry Hall one of the conditions was she didn't provide story ideas to Succession.

by Anonymousreply 251April 12, 2023 7:51 PM

rticle

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by Anonymousreply 252April 12, 2023 8:02 PM

I don't think Tom can stop the divorce if shiv wants it. We'll have to see if she still will.

I bet they stay married. But how will it benefit her?

by Anonymousreply 253April 12, 2023 8:10 PM

R252 Shit, I thought you were joking. I was impressed with your humor. But you were serious!

by Anonymousreply 254April 12, 2023 8:43 PM

[quote]I didn't think he was married but he was with that woman called Grace... she left him after the Thanksgiving dinner nightmare. Roman was much darker... more drugs, cruel to women, a slut, before they decided to weird him out (which was the better choice.) He did specifically say to Shiv in the pilot: I recognize my own daughter. So I thought he had a kid, but that was dropped too.

R229 and R230, you're both wrong. First off, I think IMDb has her listed as Grace Roy but they never really mention them being married. Roman isn't a slut. In fact, Grace complains several times that they never fuck. The only time they do is right after Roman is 'cucked' by watching her take the waiter's phone number at the Met Gala-ish event they're hosting, and we're not quite sure they even get that far.

The young girl that Grace has brought to the birthday dinner is her niece, not her daughter. Isla plays with Kendall's kids, Sophie and Iverson, and then Grace and the girls all end up watching the last movie Roman greenlit at their Waystar studio.

When Roman says "I'd recognize my own daughter", what he actually said was, "I think she'd recognize her own daughter", and he's talking about Mar-see-a and her daughter. They call her Mar-ci-a, not Marsha, and certainly not Marcy.

But yes, agree with the rest. Loved how it all circled back around this last episode.

by Anonymousreply 255April 13, 2023 1:40 AM

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue about r255. The script of the Succession pilot is out there. In the script Grace is referred to as Roman's wife. He is wearing a wedding ring that episode. It's not unusual for shows to change their mind between filming a pilot and a show getting picked up for a full series.

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by Anonymousreply 256April 13, 2023 2:51 AM

R255, you're wrong on many points. Rewatch the first episodes re Marcy. I can't be arsed to argue with you, but the mote you type, the wronger you get. However, I recognise your need to be right, so I'll pretend you're right in whatever you reply.

by Anonymousreply 257April 13, 2023 3:27 AM

From R256's link:

LOGAN Uh-huh. (not excited) I’m excited. Phone down. He clicks again. Shouts: Marcy! Marcia is there. Okay? LOGAN (CONT’D) MARCIA

After a few beats of trying to read. Trying to sip coffee, he’s up. LOGAN Marcy, I’m heading out, to check in. MARCIA Great and just you know - stay out till 1?

Logan lays papers on the table. Logan sweeps the room. Clocks Frank. Gives him a wink. Looks over at Alessandro, smiles. LOGAN Just bullshit. Just putting Marcy on. Details. Kendall scans the headings on the papers. KENDALL Okay? The trust? By the time the trust would come into play, I’ll be

MARCIA That is lunch guys? Kendall gives her a smile but walks past and off. Shiv is there with Marcia -- SHIV Oh lovely. Thank you. You’ve arranged everything very nicely Marcy. Marcia smiles it out.

by Anonymousreply 258April 13, 2023 3:30 AM

R258 what is that mess of words there?

by Anonymousreply 259April 13, 2023 6:42 AM

R259, script from R256's link. Proves she was called Marcy (from time to time) in the pilot.

by Anonymousreply 260April 13, 2023 11:01 AM

R210

If there is anything from her side, I don't recall, her response probably would be that she felt compelled to play along because Roman was the son of the CEO and she didn't want to lose her job. She felt coerced.

by Anonymousreply 261April 13, 2023 11:03 AM

R261 I think J. Smith-Cameron played it as though Gerri was getting a kick from the play - she has that slightly dirty-minded Mona Lisa smile a lot anyway, but my memory of the interaction was that Gerri was a willing participant in the kinky role playing. Nothing leaving evidence for Roman to hold over her though.

by Anonymousreply 262April 13, 2023 4:09 PM

^Oops wrong thread

by Anonymousreply 263April 13, 2023 6:34 PM

Nm.

by Anonymousreply 264April 13, 2023 6:36 PM

^Nm. Phone issues

by Anonymousreply 265April 13, 2023 6:36 PM

Gerri definitely enjoyed Roman's little perviness but she's never say it!

by Anonymousreply 266April 13, 2023 6:36 PM

^^ It made her wet. Don't ask me how I know, I just do.

by Anonymousreply 267April 13, 2023 6:40 PM

There will be no Logan flashbacks, Cox is just bullshitting to get people riled up. Jesse Armstrong doesn’t do flashbacks, flashforwards, fantasies, dream sequences or back-from-the-dead. If Logan appears again it will be something on video.

As for Grace in the Thanksgiving episode she makes a bitchy remark about the political candidate Shiv is working for and Shiv says “I don’t expect to hear that from family.” Therefore Grace was Roman’s wife. And then later Grace asks Isla if she’d like to go play with her friends Sophe and Iverson. So it’s safe to assume Isla was her daughter but not Roman’s.

by Anonymousreply 268April 13, 2023 8:57 PM

Ah a video. Good call. That might actually be correct.

I’m glad there’s no flashbacks.

by Anonymousreply 269April 13, 2023 10:44 PM

Flashbacks usually involve shocking revelations, which don't really feel very Succession.

by Anonymousreply 270April 13, 2023 10:57 PM

Succession makes me swear way more in private life.

by Anonymousreply 271April 13, 2023 11:16 PM

I agree that a flashback would feel out of place to me in this show. Its just not that type of series.

by Anonymousreply 272April 13, 2023 11:52 PM

[quote]I wonder every time I watch this if there is any social event these people can let go of business for. It must be exhausting.

The corporate world in NYC can be not only exhausting, but a soul-crushing experience. And then add to that all the stress and bullshit of living in NYC. Sometimes you just dream of working on a farm in Vermont.

by Anonymousreply 273April 14, 2023 7:58 PM

I agree it's unlikely they'll have a flashback since they've never had one yet on the show.

The trouble with being in their world is you're on 24/7. Connor thought he didn't want a place in it and so asked not to be part of Waystar-Royco, but since he's been so obsessed with gaining his father's approval, he's done himself no favors by being on social media all the time and running for president. So for him as for his siblings, no social engagement is innocent--they are always considered on call.

What you really need to do in their world is what Logan's cranky brother did, which is cash out entirely and stay away from the family business entirely. I wonder if any of them will be able to do this. But that's what a lot of extremely rich people in business dynasties find they have to do--you have to be either all in or move out of it as much as possible.

by Anonymousreply 274April 14, 2023 8:07 PM

R262

I stated what her probable response would be if there were an investigation or a lawsuit. I didn't say she didn't enjoy it. Although sometimes sexual harassment victims distance themselves and pretend they don't mind when in fact they do.

by Anonymousreply 275April 14, 2023 10:23 PM

The actor who plays Frank on Succession is in the new season of Mrs. Maisel playing, effectively, Freddy deCordova.

by Anonymousreply 276April 14, 2023 10:28 PM

And Justine Lupe who plays Willa is Mrs Maisels sister-in-law Astrid…

I just blew R276’s mind.

by Anonymousreply 277April 15, 2023 3:44 AM

And Tabitha was played by Caitlan FitzGerald, who played Libby Masters in Masters of Sex. Both Lupe and FitzGerald have great voices. I am glad FitzGerald is coming back. Maybe they're going to toss us one conventional happy ending and with his old man dead somehow Roman can get a normal erection and have normal sex.

by Anonymousreply 278April 15, 2023 12:31 PM

If this was a soap opera, I’d say a fantastic plot would be for Kerry to be pregnant with Logan’s baby. That would be hilarious! Because Logan was so old and now he’s dead and none of the Roy kids like Kerry. True telenovela shit right there.

by Anonymousreply 279April 15, 2023 12:58 PM

Kerry's Morticia hair is just so abnormal.

by Anonymousreply 280April 15, 2023 1:01 PM

R279 Wasn't there something about Logan eating walnuts (?) to improve his sperm count? The kids were speculating he wanted a child with Kerry. Maybe that chicken will come home to roost?

by Anonymousreply 281April 15, 2023 1:04 PM

It boils down to your view of whether or not Succession is a drama or a melodrama. In four series not one long-lost wife or unknown love-child has come forward, which is a pretty good measure maybe of the story they're trying to tell?

by Anonymousreply 282April 15, 2023 2:34 PM

Shouldn't there be a Roman wanking one off in the shower scene soon??! Filmed in real time, of course. Start to finish.

by Anonymousreply 283April 15, 2023 2:42 PM

^Yes, before his dads funeral. That’s a Roman thing to do.

by Anonymousreply 284April 15, 2023 5:28 PM

^AT the funeral

by Anonymousreply 285April 15, 2023 6:59 PM

Even better. Jizz in the coffin before Logan gets buried.

by Anonymousreply 286April 15, 2023 7:02 PM

Crawl in the coffin and stick it in his corpse ass!

by Anonymousreply 287April 15, 2023 7:23 PM

Logan was putting maca root in his smoothies. Season 3, episode 9, "All the Bells Say."

by Anonymousreply 288April 15, 2023 8:43 PM

No, Logan is not going to have left a posthumous child in Kerry's uterus. That would be more soap plotting. It is not going to happen.

by Anonymousreply 289April 15, 2023 8:56 PM

Flashbacks are lazy. I hope they don’t do them.

by Anonymousreply 290April 15, 2023 9:03 PM

It's weird how there's an ongoing joke on these threads about making "Succession" more like the 80s nighttime soaps, and yet even so, some Dataloungers have made it clear would prefer it if it had the simultaneously ridiculous and predictable twists we associated with "Dallas" and "Dynasty."

by Anonymousreply 291April 15, 2023 9:22 PM

Succession already is an 80s soap.

Business intrigue. Companies suddenly and dramatically in play.

Whores bopping in and out of Logan’s bed.

Roman and the general counsel in a dominatrix-lite pas de deux.

Kendall snorting it all up his nose and killing a waiter.

Tom and Shiv - will they or won’t they?

Tom and Greg - will they or won’t they?

Only difference is HBO gives a veneer of bougie respectability - something to make the people on the coast feel like they are watching something more elevated, even if it is not

by Anonymousreply 292April 15, 2023 9:27 PM

But it's a character piece and a satire, not a melodrama.

by Anonymousreply 293April 15, 2023 9:31 PM

It is no more satire than Dallas. Except Larry Hagman was in on the joke.

There’s no character development at all in the core of the show. Every single lead is exactly the same now as they were in the first episode. Literally nothing has changed.

by Anonymousreply 294April 15, 2023 9:35 PM

I'd argue with you, R294, but you seem quite settled in your view.

by Anonymousreply 295April 15, 2023 9:37 PM

Yes. Perhaps they should now do four seasons of the show as a soap opera. Same characters and cast, just insert ridiculous Dallas/Dynasty/Passions plots.

In that one Tom would definitely be hooking up with Cousin Greg, Kerry would be pregnant with an 84 year old’s kid, one of the Roy kids wouldn’t be biologically Roy (or maybe they’d be Nan Pierce’s kid by Logan), etc. the possibilities are endless!

I’d watch it.

by Anonymousreply 296April 15, 2023 9:37 PM

It's a satirical dramedy with a structure of a nighttime soap.

Will people be talking about Succession like they do The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, and Mad Men twenty years from now, it is hard to say.

by Anonymousreply 297April 15, 2023 9:40 PM

I better not catch you sticking a traffic cone in your ass ever again!

by Anonymousreply 298April 15, 2023 9:42 PM

How many people change much as they age? Personality is largely fixed. The show seems to examine these damaged people and the futility of their responses to their circumstances. And know nighttime soap ever aspired to dramatize the corrosive effect of corporations on the world. Well, unless you count Jack Abbott running for State Senate.

by Anonymousreply 299April 15, 2023 10:06 PM

Mmm, Jack Abbott. Second only to Brad Carlton for my sexy Y&R men.

by Anonymousreply 300April 15, 2023 10:12 PM

Shakespeare's plays, contemporaneous to the time they were written, staged and attended weren't considered an elite entertainment; they were entertainment, that, incidentally, happened to contain astute observations about the nature of human interaction.

All classes, from the royal to the rabble, attended them, and I doubt there were arguments of what genre of play they belonged to.

This argument over whether Succession is a soap opera, satirical comedy, elevated schlock, a modern tragedy/comedy of manners, etc, is silly and meaningless.

by Anonymousreply 301April 15, 2023 10:28 PM

It is no more silly and meaningless than our deep examination of Belinda’s envelope of seed money on S1 of White Lotus.

by Anonymousreply 302April 15, 2023 10:55 PM

Roman is gonna be taking so much Swedish dick ...

by Anonymousreply 303April 15, 2023 10:59 PM

I wish I had a dollar for every time I lol'd and said "fucking Greg." Lear's Fool may be replaced as an archetype.

by Anonymousreply 304April 15, 2023 11:50 PM

The question is not whether or not it is a nighttime soap, a satire, etc.; the question is whether it's going to have these stupid, unbelievable (and yet predictable) 80s plot twists DLers keep thinking it will have, and yet never in fact stoops to.

by Anonymousreply 305April 16, 2023 12:07 AM

I think most people here are just kidding about the plot twists and over the top drama.

We know this is a mostly reality based show and it will remain grounded.

I, for one, aren’t expecting anything major to happen. Except maybe Kendall od’s or kills himself or something. (But that is something that would make sense in the succession world, it’s not too far fetched).

But since this season is apparently taking place over 10 consecutive days, it doesn’t feel like there’s time for something big to occur. It’s all business from here.

by Anonymousreply 306April 16, 2023 12:50 AM

“The situation keeps changing in Season 4,” Smith-Cameron says of Gerri’s position on the metaphorical chess board. “The sides keep changing and changing and changing. It’s a very tumultuous season.”

Gerri’s “in a little bit of a free fall this season. It’ll be interesting to see how she manages that.” As for her approach moving forward? “She feels a little unsentimental about how roughed up she’s felt by both Logan and Roman. And so she’s a little colder than usual.”

In other words, watch out for Gerri, she’s ready to serve her own interests. “She’s always been very careful about who she trusts or doesn’t trust. And I think she’s even more hardened by the end of the story,” Cameron-Smith teases. “[She’s] very steely. Like, do not f**k with her.”

Article is broadly but not precisely spoilery.

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by Anonymousreply 307April 16, 2023 2:44 AM

never watched that fukin show at all. EVER

by Anonymousreply 308April 16, 2023 3:45 AM

Really, R308? But you read through 307 replies before posting your irrelevant and misspelled comment? You must be so proud!

by Anonymousreply 309April 16, 2023 4:07 AM

And yet you took the time to comment. Thanks R308, now back to obscurity with you.

by Anonymousreply 310April 16, 2023 6:29 AM

Looking forward to some Stewy tonight!

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by Anonymousreply 311April 16, 2023 8:40 PM

Finally watching. This being the Data lounge, it has probably already been observed that the actress who plays Kerry could star in “The Karen Carpenter Story.”

Also, why do the children in the opening montage look like those of some Sicilian mafia don?

by Anonymousreply 312April 16, 2023 9:02 PM

Fucking knew she was pregnant

by Anonymousreply 313April 17, 2023 1:02 AM

Probably three months, sooo Tom’s going to be a dad.

by Anonymousreply 314April 17, 2023 1:05 AM

It's good to see Marcia back. She put Kendall in his place, but then Willa put her in hers.

by Anonymousreply 315April 17, 2023 1:19 AM

Shiv is so annoying

by Anonymousreply 316April 17, 2023 1:30 AM

Logan chose Kendall. That was nice. Ken needs a win.

by Anonymousreply 317April 17, 2023 1:33 AM

Fucking Marcia! LOL.

by Anonymousreply 318April 17, 2023 1:48 AM

Oooh Marcia. Cold as ice.

by Anonymousreply 319April 17, 2023 1:49 AM

It's hard to feel very sorry for Kerry.

by Anonymousreply 320April 17, 2023 1:49 AM

Tom’s trying so hard to stay in this company and family and he doesn’t even know he’s already in permanently because shiv’s pregnant with his kid.

by Anonymousreply 321April 17, 2023 1:51 AM

Stewy is attractive. Niiice.

by Anonymousreply 322April 17, 2023 1:52 AM

Happy to see DL is finally coming around to noticing how sexy Stewy (Arian Moayed) is on the show. I've been saying this since Season 1 of Succession and felt like I was the only person who saw it.

by Anonymousreply 323April 17, 2023 2:03 AM

Hasn’t DL perved on Stewie for some time?

by Anonymousreply 324April 17, 2023 2:05 AM

Kerry returned for her makeup. Shit, buy some new stuff. Unbelievable.

by Anonymousreply 325April 17, 2023 2:08 AM

Kendall’s already going behind Roman’s back…this will end well 🙄

by Anonymousreply 326April 17, 2023 2:10 AM

I'm not sure the child means Tom's back in good with the company. Shiv could abort the child, or she could raise it on her own.

by Anonymousreply 327April 17, 2023 2:18 AM

Don’t these people have savings? They all seem so invested in “staying” with the company.

Kendall will spin out. He always does.

by Anonymousreply 328April 17, 2023 2:21 AM

The Marcia/Willa/Kerry scenes were the best. So an actual prostitute is going to end up with Logan’s palace.

by Anonymousreply 329April 17, 2023 2:22 AM

What an awesome season.

The Fuckkery is delicious.

by Anonymousreply 330April 17, 2023 2:23 AM

R327 she could, but I don’t think she’ll abort. At least not in the six days that are left in the show. Actually, that would be a bitchin episode 10 event. She wants nothing to do with Tom or being a mom so she gets an abortion. Hmm.

by Anonymousreply 331April 17, 2023 2:28 AM

Do we think Frank and Karl or Gerri messed with the paper before they showed the kids?

I think Karl said he wouldn’t let ‘that little Princess’ mess things up for him. Who did he mean by that?

Perhaps they erased something that was in pencil?

I think there was some fuckery going on.

by Anonymousreply 332April 17, 2023 2:31 AM

It’s funny that no one knows if Kendall was underlined or crossed out.

by Anonymousreply 333April 17, 2023 2:34 AM

R332 I thought Karl was referring to Shiv.

by Anonymousreply 334April 17, 2023 2:35 AM

Kendall’s “I like you, tom. Good luck” and Tom’s face was hilarious.

But, I don’t think Kendall/the Roys will be getting rid of him. He’ll be damn sure he is very involved with his kid’s life if only to stay close to the Roys. He’s such a social climber. He’ll be taking shiv to court for joint custody.

by Anonymousreply 335April 17, 2023 2:40 AM
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by Anonymousreply 336April 17, 2023 2:41 AM

Matsson looks good.

by Anonymousreply 337April 17, 2023 2:48 AM

I feel like it's lost a little momentum. The Marcia scenes were wildly entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 338April 17, 2023 2:57 AM

Best episode of the series. Absolutely brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 339April 17, 2023 3:07 AM

[quote]I think Karl said he wouldn’t let ‘that little Princess’ mess things up for him. Who did he mean by that?

Charlotte of Wales.

by Anonymousreply 340April 17, 2023 3:10 AM

[quote]It's hard to feel very sorry for Kerry.

She was basically Logan's fuckhole. Everybody saw right through her.

by Anonymousreply 341April 17, 2023 3:20 AM

That was such a terrific episode, wow. They somehow kept things focused on the kids but still gave juicy moments to just about every significant character in the show’s whole run.

Have to agree Stewy is a hot piece of ass. The scene where he comforted Kendall was genuinely touching.

Willa might be the show’s most sympathetic character.

by Anonymousreply 342April 17, 2023 3:21 AM

[quote]Hasn’t DL perved on Stewie for some time?

We all want his big throbbing Iranian cock.

by Anonymousreply 343April 17, 2023 3:21 AM

I LOVED Karl’s roast of Tom. So perfect.

I did want to know what Logan intended with Greg, but even he didn’t know.

Greg?

by Anonymousreply 344April 17, 2023 3:22 AM

Karl was on fire tonight. I guess when you've eaten (admittedly very lucrative) shit for thirty years....

by Anonymousreply 345April 17, 2023 3:23 AM

If only Logan has worn his compression socks he may have lived another 20 years…

by Anonymousreply 346April 17, 2023 3:23 AM

Was Logan actually talking about marriage with Kerry?

by Anonymousreply 347April 17, 2023 3:24 AM

Maybe shiv’s weak little fall down the stairs was enough for a miscarriage. The last thing she needs is a kid.

by Anonymousreply 348April 17, 2023 3:43 AM

I hope Colin gets his watch. That’s probably the only thing on that paper that Logan really wanted.

by Anonymousreply 349April 17, 2023 3:48 AM

r347: he likely was, but he likely meant nothing by it other than to keep her in line, just as he did with his promises to Shiv she would get to take over the business.

by Anonymousreply 350April 17, 2023 3:50 AM

They may have been referring to Kendall as the “little princess.”

by Anonymousreply 351April 17, 2023 3:53 AM

I thought that, too. Rude.

He should come after them with his strap-on

by Anonymousreply 352April 17, 2023 4:04 AM

Lip balm Tom Wamb!

I think Roman would actually like a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory giant bed for his family. Slime puppy really wants to be in a puppy pile.

by Anonymousreply 353April 17, 2023 4:13 AM

I really want to fuck Roman.

I wonder what that says about me.

by Anonymousreply 354April 17, 2023 4:33 AM

You can tell Mattsen is going to give them a reduced price. They are in for a rude awakening.

by Anonymousreply 355April 17, 2023 4:44 AM

Who was Stephen Root playing? (He’s the one who gave the speech.)

by Anonymousreply 356April 17, 2023 4:59 AM

So, who is Stephen Root in 'Succession'? Ron is a major GOP donor who first appears in Season 3 while speaking at the Future Freedom Summit, an event that focuses on choosing the next presidential candidate

by Anonymousreply 357April 17, 2023 5:22 AM

It’s going to be awkward flying to Sweden on the death jet. Especially if they have to use the bathroom. Think Logan had a private bathroom on the plane?

Or maybe they traded in that plane and bought a new one?

by Anonymousreply 358April 17, 2023 5:25 AM

Did anyone pause when Kerry’s purse fell open to see if there was anything incriminating in there? I saw a few pill bottles, but maybe there was something juicy.

I thought it was a little out of character for Roman to crouch down and help her pick it all up and ask if he had her cell number. He’s not nice like that.

by Anonymousreply 359April 17, 2023 5:46 AM

R359 The joke was a callback to S1 Roman who loves fucking grieving chicks. Her hysterical tears were catnip to his bi cock.

Everyone keeps talking about the fact that Gojo is such a good deal which of course means that it will fall through. Kendall still wants to burn dad, but Matsson, the board, and the markets liked Logan which is something Kendall and Shiv are still too bitter and petty to understand. Roman's problem is that he never follows his instincts and lets everyone else get inside his head and tell him what to do. We've seen this multiple times this season alone. He should've answered Matsson's call. Swedes are too rational for the mindfuckery and his patience with the Irish trash is wearing thin.

I never liked Shiv's character. Too short-sided, emotional, and petty just to be difficult and cause a headache. Then she wonders why everyone dismisses her. She's playing business, but she's not actually business. None of the children are. Which is the point. She is such a typical woman in a man's world - transparently trying on power plays to seem tough when you know she throws a weak punch. Her fall down the steps made me laugh. Hope she miscarries and divorces sniveling Tom.

I think the show killed Logan off a smidge too early in the final season. The rest of the characters aren't as immediately compelling. Cox really was on another level. I think all of the bts tension between Cox and Strong meant that Armstrong and co. didn't mind getting rid of Cox early. It also means that episodes like tonight's feel longer and less densely packed with tension. We all knew what would happen as soon as the paper said Kendall.

by Anonymousreply 360April 17, 2023 6:10 AM

I have a feeling shiv and Tom will stay married. The GoJo deal doesn’t happen, or it does but it’s not as great a deal as the kids were expecting, shiv gets iced out by her brothers and is feeling pissy, she has no friends or close family (aside from her siblings), so she will keep Tom around. She’ll need someone there for her. Even if she’s still mad at him.

And in a preview from couple weeks ago Matsson was being a shit and asks who gets the apartment in the divorce and Tom and shiv shared a look like maybe the divorce wasn’t a great idea. I can picture episode 10 ending with Tom putting his hand on shivs stomach and smiling like them getting back together isn’t a terrible idea.

by Anonymousreply 361April 17, 2023 6:58 AM

Thanks r360 that makes sense about Roman. He is a sicko.

by Anonymousreply 362April 17, 2023 6:59 AM

R360 Logan was supposed to sue in the first season. It has zero to do with Brian and Jeremy bts.

by Anonymousreply 363April 17, 2023 7:30 AM

^ *die

by Anonymousreply 364April 17, 2023 7:31 AM

Tom said Carl said Logan died while trying to fish his phone out of the toilet. Dropped while listening to Roman calling him a cunt?

by Anonymousreply 365April 17, 2023 8:35 AM

Willa is always wearing a collar like a pet.

by Anonymousreply 366April 17, 2023 8:43 AM

Love seeing that whore Kerry get her comeuppance, how delicious was that?

Jeremy Strong's hair colour is disgusting, can the Justin Theroux shoe polish hair just stop already? Go lighter, guys, you're too old for that tone.

The music in the credits was divine.

by Anonymousreply 367April 17, 2023 8:44 AM

If this shit isn’t a soap opera then I don’t know what is.

by Anonymousreply 368April 17, 2023 9:21 AM

In one of my creative writing MFA classes, we read Anna Karenina, and I said that I felt like I was reading a soap opera. Every single scene begins with someone walking into a room, a passionate exchange between people, and the fiery exit of one of them through a door.

My writing instructor said yes, that's right, and that is good and engaging story structure and the reason daytime soap operas have been on the air for 50 years. She said she learned to write fiction by writing down how daytime soap scenes are structured.

by Anonymousreply 369April 17, 2023 9:58 AM

[quote] Kerry returned for her makeup. Shit, buy some new stuff. Unbelievable.

I had the idea she was trying to get more from the bedroom than her makeup and a few pieces of clothing. I think there was something else she wanted.

Marcia was just fantastic. I love her character.

by Anonymousreply 370April 17, 2023 9:59 AM

R367, I think Roman’s hair color is too severely dark as well. It looked like a little black hat.

by Anonymousreply 371April 17, 2023 10:03 AM

It’s Shiv’s indecisiveness that’s screwed her over in the succession battle, and I think the same with happen with the baby. She spent her early career trying to establish herself apart from the family, which means she lacks any real experience in the firm. But she couldn’t stick to that and eventually tried to return to the nest, meaning she ruined her connections outside the family as well. So now she has nothing in terms of career and is beholden to her brothers.

With the baby, she told her husband on her wedding night that she didn’t want a traditional marriage with him, ruining his dreams and aspirations about the marriage and putting him on guard about looking out for his own interests and not trusting her to do so. But she has never been able to cut him off either, because she loves him. He used information he learned from her to betray her to her own father. And now she’s pregnant with her own child, just when Tom (“I live to serve” - how humiliating) could have been fully excised from her life.

It was brutal to watch her as her two brothers - with justification! - cut her out of the loop of power in this episode. The little, meaningless reassurances she had to accept from them because she lacked leverage to demand anything different. I would probably have fallen down the much larger staircase in her place.

(Someone in the last thread argued the writing has become more contrived and less natural this season, and I agree. Tom’s little monologue about Paris and “your fine silk shirt” was poorly done and almost gross in how much it seemed to reach for a literary feel.)

by Anonymousreply 372April 17, 2023 11:07 AM

“ If this shit isn’t a soap opera then I don’t know what is.”

Marcia and Willa are a half-step from the lily pond.

by Anonymousreply 373April 17, 2023 11:07 AM

The “fine silk shirt” speech was very Tom.

So, yes. Gross.

People do say weird shit during times of crisis, I guess.

by Anonymousreply 374April 17, 2023 11:17 AM

What the fuck was Greg’s glitch this ep?

He was being a total freak.

by Anonymousreply 375April 17, 2023 11:20 AM

Greg was a little more self-aware than I expected, realizing Tom is now a dead-end. Greg tried his hand with the siblings, flopped even with the mention of Ewan, and now seems to be seeking power through Marcia (another short-sighted Greg scheme). I’m surprised he didn’t try tying himself to Geri or Frank.

by Anonymousreply 376April 17, 2023 11:26 AM

Gerri needs to go back to the shorter, more sophisticated hair. That long ingenue hsir is working my nerves.

by Anonymousreply 377April 17, 2023 11:39 AM

He was trying to ingratiate himself with Marcia, but she wasn’t having it.

He was for sure looking for a way to stay or get in good with the family.

I’m interested in where he ends up because he’s pretty much useless.

by Anonymousreply 378April 17, 2023 11:40 AM

R372 I agree Tom’s story wasn’t great, but I did like how he asked, ‘do you like that. Do you like that?’ It was pretty hot.

Shiv will soften towards him and take him back. In last night’s episode, we had the long look between them when Tom first got to Logan’s, the story on the stairs, and then Tom helped her up when she fell. They are doomed to stay together. Which isn’t ideal for either of them. They’re a bad match.

by Anonymousreply 379April 17, 2023 11:44 AM

I liked Gerri’s glasses

by Anonymousreply 380April 17, 2023 11:44 AM

Was shiv drinking alcohol at Connor’s karaoke night? I can’t remember.

It’s possible she was only keeping the baby to use as leverage with Logan, especially if it’s a boy. But now that he’s dead, she could abort. I don’t think she will. I think this baby will be a new Roy. (Not Wambsgans).

by Anonymousreply 381April 17, 2023 11:51 AM

Interesting interview with Dagmara Dominczyk.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 382April 17, 2023 11:51 AM

Marcia was hysterical last night... very entertaining. The spit shake was hilarious (as was the speed of the transaction.) Rolling Stone said if there was any proof of Logan's intentions where Kerry was concerned, there's good odds Marcia shredded it by now. Whenever she arrived at the apartment, she didn't tell anybody she was there and had already made her move to tell Kerry not to show.

by Anonymousreply 383April 17, 2023 11:53 AM

It’s up for debate whether Marcia is interested in positioning one of her kids for some power in the organization, but I thought the spit-shake sale was a sign she’s more interested in cashing out as soon as she can, as much as she can. (Which is what I would do in her position - get my money and run.)

by Anonymousreply 384April 17, 2023 11:58 AM

[quote]I think the show killed Logan off a smidge too early in the final season.

I agree. I thought last night's episode felt rushed. Everybody got a bit but it felt a little bit like a Julian Fellowes episode where fifty characters all get three lines. It felt to me like a reboot... like E1 of the new season... setting the stage for what's to come but not necessarily clarifying it. I'm not sure what the central conflict is any more... I mean, obviously the big chair, but is there supposed to be a big chair left in the long term? Can the company survive without the GoJo deal (which destroys it anyway because it's now absorbed into GoJo.) I wish they'd spent a few more episodes with Logan alive, laying the groundwork for the end with a clearer conflict.

by Anonymousreply 385April 17, 2023 11:58 AM

If the GoJo deal doesn’t go through, then what? Waystar stays as it is as one giant company? Wouldn’t Roman, and especially Kendall, want that so he could run the whole damn thing?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Matsson would buy everything except ATN? And ATN is what Kendall and Roman are co CEO’s of?

by Anonymousreply 386April 17, 2023 12:02 PM

Stewy seems to be only friend any of the four Roy kids have. How sad.

by Anonymousreply 387April 17, 2023 12:09 PM

R386.... right now K &R are running the whole show... parks, cruises (I think), the studio and news. GoJo's taking everything but ATN.

by Anonymousreply 388April 17, 2023 12:10 PM

I love how Stewy is a capable of compassion and warmth right up until it's a business matter. His ability to emotionally karate chop is impressive.

by Anonymousreply 389April 17, 2023 12:10 PM

from the interview in R382:

But I’m so excited for you to watch the rest of the season. I really am. The audience is going to get everything they want in terms of how everything does or doesn’t end and be surprised along the way.

by Anonymousreply 390April 17, 2023 12:11 PM

I think the only way Shiv will take Tom back and cancel the divorce is if he promises to quit his job and become a stay at home dad. I can’t see her doing 3am diaper changes or feedings. The kid will be a formula kid for sure.

by Anonymousreply 391April 17, 2023 12:12 PM

Lost in the line about the taxi was that Marcia also sent her down the service elevator. Every step of the journey home was a reminder she's lost it all now.

by Anonymousreply 392April 17, 2023 12:15 PM

R390 I’m not even sure how I want it to end, anymore.

Maybe Kendall burning his siblings and becoming sole CEO- very powerful but alone and unhappy. Kind of like Logan.

by Anonymousreply 393April 17, 2023 12:16 PM

Kerry will find another old rich guy. I think she’ll be fine. But Marcia sure did stick it to her this episode. Ouch.

by Anonymousreply 394April 17, 2023 12:17 PM

I loved the apartment selling scene between Marcia and Connor.

How much are all the kids worth? Are they all billionaires too, or just have a few hundred millions each? I assume Con would have less than the others since he’s not really involved in the business?

by Anonymousreply 395April 17, 2023 12:40 PM

For the questions on corporate structure - as of now, because the sale to GoJo has not yet been signed or consummated, Waystar Royco (which owns ATN) is still one entity. Gerri was the interim CEO; now, Kendall and Roman are the interim CEOs.

If the deal with GoJo goes through, the current owners of Waystar Royco (which include the family members and lots of the other players in the show, as well as shareholders) will sell all the pieces of the company except for ATN (the “rump”) to GoJo in return for a pile of money. They are generally in favor of this because Waystar Royco is in decline and being eclipsed by new technology, but a significant part of the ownership including the siblings and Stewie are trying to extract more money from GoJo for the deal. If the deal goes through, Waystar corporate players like Geri would likely advance in the GoJo-owned company, while Roy family members/hangers-on like Tom would stick around ATN or just simply cash out.

The Waystar owner group is now in a precarious position because the value of Waystar Royco declined significantly when Logan died and the owner group pushing for more money from GoJo had already created tension related to the sale (which ASkars warned Kendall about in the karaoke episode). Many of the owners, like Conor and perhaps Marcia/her kids and the Stewie group, do not want to deal to fall apart, because they want the money from the sale and have no interest in shepherding an independent Waystar in its decline. Kendall, Roman, and Shiv may be less desperate for the GoJo deal to go through; all along in the series, they’ve been more confident about their ability to run the whole company and turn it around (which lots of characters and viewers think is completely deluded of them, but…).

Lastly, the Pierce sale was the siblings bartering their expected profits from the GoJo deal to purchase Pierce. Logan’s effort was to buy Pierce and join it to the leftover ATN rump post-GoJo sale. With Logan gone, the siblings may be planning the same thing (Pierce/ATN), but if the GoJo deal falls apart, they won’t have the money to buy Pierce. So who will step in and let Nan Pierce get her billions? Would Pierce somehow find a way to fuck with the siblings in that scenario. GoJo? Etc.

by Anonymousreply 396April 17, 2023 12:41 PM

A couple times throughout the series, they mention that the value of the combined Roy family’s ownership interest in Waystar Royco is $10 billion. It seems less clear how much each sibling has apart from that - like how much they would have if the GoJo deal fell through. Didn’t Connor just have to ask for a loan/gift from Logan last season to fund his campaign?

by Anonymousreply 397April 17, 2023 12:46 PM

R378, do we think Greg is also trying to get his sex tape destroyed? The sucking up to power is the likely motivator, but with Logan gone, I imagine Marcia has the ownership rights of the video.

by Anonymousreply 398April 17, 2023 12:52 PM

I think Greg is much more desperate about his future/net worth than the sex tape. Logan and Ewan’s fight related to Greg meant that Greg gave up his inheritance from Ewan to keep working with Logan (maybe that’s the moment when Logan wrote “Greg?”) on the piece of paper. Now Logan is gone and Greg doesn’t have inheritance from Ewan, doesn’t have any Roy family backer with pull (Tom is useful), and hasn’t established himself as necessary to the company (GoJo wouldn’t care if he stayed or left). He’s fucked unless he can find some leverage somewhere. Maybe Ewan will forgive him, though.

by Anonymousreply 399April 17, 2023 12:57 PM

*Tom is NOT useful, sorry

by Anonymousreply 400April 17, 2023 12:58 PM

Is there a sex tape? I figured Tom was just fucking with Greg about the video cameras.

by Anonymousreply 401April 17, 2023 1:00 PM

I say Greg should make friends with Matsson and move to Sweden and work for GoJo. What’s for him in NYC? ATN? Which he hated/hates? Logan’s not there to keep him around and the siblings have made it clear they don’t give a shit about him.

by Anonymousreply 402April 17, 2023 1:02 PM

I don't like Kendall at all, never have. Roman can be amusing, Shiv I feel somewhat sympathetic for and Connor and Willa seem to be a bit normal compared to the others in this very dysfunctional family.

by Anonymousreply 403April 17, 2023 1:09 PM

I agree with R401. Tom might have been playing with Greg. However, I think Greg still has one last play: The folder Tom asked him to erase. What's in that folder? We do not know (do we?) and I think Greg will have some leverage.

by Anonymousreply 404April 17, 2023 1:22 PM

The implication about Tom’s “Logistics” folder was that it was related to Logan’s plan to get rid of Syd at the top of ATN. We know Logan told Roman that Logan wanted Roman in charge of ATN, but I’m not sure Tom knows that, so Tom may have been plotting how to step into Cyd’s place. Unlike the Gerri situation, it doesn’t appear that anyone told Cyd this was happening, so Tom might be afraid Cyd would fire Tom from ATN if she finds out.

But it was left open-ended enough that that could have been misdirection on Tom’s or the show’s part.

by Anonymousreply 405April 17, 2023 1:33 PM

[quote]So who will step in and let Nan Pierce get her billions? Would Pierce somehow find a way to fuck with the siblings in that scenario. GoJo? Etc.

That's a twist ending I could see.

by Anonymousreply 406April 17, 2023 2:14 PM

Remember: "I have fought and I have lost, and I have fought and won, but when I lose, the other one will generally lose an eye or a soul."

Not just pretty words.

by Anonymousreply 407April 17, 2023 2:23 PM

At this point, I don’t know the difference between Waystar, GoJo and Pierce.

by Anonymousreply 408April 17, 2023 2:37 PM

What would be great would be an in character documentary, as a writer sits down with the main characters as sources for a biography of Logan Roy. All gloves off. It would be fascinating to get a scripted version of what the hell these people were actually thinking. The writers give very little away that they don't have to. (They also tend to move the goal posts. Connor's mom, Logan recalled, loved the arts ball the Roys threw annually, so there was a time that marriage was set in New York society as well... now she's so nuts that she's still in the nut house after physical and verbal abuse.)

by Anonymousreply 409April 17, 2023 2:39 PM

R408, Waystar Royco is the parent corporation of all the assets held by the company run by Logan. News division (print and broadcast), theme park division, cruise division, film (and I guess TV) studio.

Pierce seems to only be a new organization, still owned (after generations) by the Pierce family. If it isn't private, they hold the majority share to maintain effective control. I think it's privately held. The kids, early this season, scooped their father in a bid to buy Pierce but the deal hasn't closed.

GoJo is the tech company owned by can't remember his first name Mattson (Saarsgard.) It's into everything online: streaming, gaming, etc. GoJo was first an acquistion target by Waystar, then talked merger of equals, then Mattson made the case (and the financing) for an outright takeover. That deal hasn't closed either and may be not far even advanced it could collapse, though these things usually have penalties to prevent someone walking away entirely.

by Anonymousreply 410April 17, 2023 2:43 PM

Lukas

by Anonymousreply 411April 17, 2023 2:47 PM

Waystar Royco has three divisions: news, entertainment, and resorts. (According to the corporate training video shown in season 1, episode 1, "Celebration," and season 2, episode 4, "Panic Room.")

Pierce is a privately held news organization with print (e.g., the New York Mail) and broadcast (e.g., PGN) assets.

GoJo is a tech company owned by Lukas Mattson.

by Anonymousreply 412April 17, 2023 2:48 PM

R328

[quote]Don’t these people have savings? They all seem so invested in “staying” with the company.

I think the point of the story (and it reflects folks at this level of commercial success) is that some money is them is like drugs to a drug addict - having lots of money makes them rabid to have more. More is not enough.

by Anonymousreply 413April 17, 2023 4:11 PM

If this season was longer than 10 days their time, I’d say Kendall’s full exposure of Logan is going to backfire and his killing of the waiter would come out and he’d get arrested and his last scene would be his first day in prison.

Since there’s only 6 days left, that won’t happen. But his involvement in the death could come out. By Roman or shiv.

None of the kids are going to get what they think they want.

by Anonymousreply 414April 17, 2023 4:16 PM

I have no doubt Roman will freak out once they start PR slaying Logan's memory. Maybe Shiv, too, since she seems quite emotional about his death (granted, it's been a day.) My theory is this is process of elimination of all the potentials: Gerry fell last night, Kendall goes next, etc. etc. Meantime none of them notice there's no company left to run, because it sells or collapses while they're running around trying to grab the throne.

by Anonymousreply 415April 17, 2023 4:18 PM

Kendall realized in the penultimate scene last night his name was crossed out on that paper. So he's going to tear everything down with the fanciful fever dream he'll ride in and save the company. Roman is going to destroy him.

by Anonymousreply 416April 17, 2023 4:23 PM

The markets will destroy all of them.

by Anonymousreply 417April 17, 2023 4:24 PM

It’s impossible to tell whether it’s crossed out or underlined.

by Anonymousreply 418April 17, 2023 4:26 PM

I think it was underlined. It started underlined then rose into a cross out . Logan got sloppy with it, but it was underlined.

by Anonymousreply 419April 17, 2023 4:29 PM

R415 I like that. There ends up not being any Waystar. GoJo buys most of it, and then Pierce or someone gets ATN at a bargain price.

Best thing for the kids, really. They need to take their money and do something else.

by Anonymousreply 420April 17, 2023 4:31 PM

Perhaps with their father gone, they’ll realize that they don’t give a shit about Waystar. They just wanted his approval.

by Anonymousreply 421April 17, 2023 4:34 PM

This past episode was everything I had hoped Succession would be. It took on a dramatic turn the last few seasons, but S4/E4 was absolutely hilarious. Frank, Carl, and Greg were particularly brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 422April 17, 2023 4:45 PM

Peter Friedman and David Rasche deserve accolades for E4. Particularly Rasche, because he's consummate comedic actor, who's getting to show that side of himself.

by Anonymousreply 423April 17, 2023 4:57 PM

I liked Roman’s response when someone asked where’s Kerry? He said something like ‘probably in the trunk of Marcia’s car.’ Lol.

by Anonymousreply 424April 17, 2023 5:06 PM

I think Logan crossed out Kendall’s name, not underlined it - probably back when Kendall put on that press conference (or maybe the original time he teamed up with Stewie).

And Kendall seems to think that as well - my read of the last scene was Kendall realizing his father crossed him out, then authorizing the “publicly destroy Logan” PR strategy. Revenge.

by Anonymousreply 425April 17, 2023 5:17 PM

On the “soap opera twists” level - people are debating who Karl and Frank meant when they were referencing “the Princess,” plus all the mentions of things being written in pencil on the letter. They could have just been belittling Kendall (most likely). But if it wasn’t and there was some messing around with the document, what if it was Shiv and she somehow finds out - after both her brothers have taken over instead of her? That could bring her and Tom back together and into play…

How would she find out? Maybe Tom was telling Greg the truth about Logan setting up cameras in all the bedrooms, and Marcia finds out and uses this as her in to get back in the game on Shiv’s good side?

by Anonymousreply 426April 17, 2023 5:27 PM

[quote]I think Logan crossed out Kendall’s name, not underlined it - probably back when Kendall put on that press conference (or maybe the original time he teamed up with Stewie).

They’ll never answer it but … there was no reason Logan would underline his name, but there was a reason he would cross it out.

by Anonymousreply 427April 17, 2023 5:32 PM

I don’t think Marcia wants in. I think she wants to cash out and bounce. Maybe go back to Milan.

She’s already set to bank $63 mil from the apartment. She’s smart, she won’t want to deal with this bs anymore.

by Anonymousreply 428April 17, 2023 5:34 PM

R421 I agree, but that seems like a revelation they’ll make further on down the line. Not now when everything is as up in the air as it is.

In a year or so they may rethink their lives and if they want to be a part of their dad’s company.

by Anonymousreply 429April 17, 2023 5:37 PM

I think the point is that at this point Logan's intentions are undivinable. You can only guess at what we would have wanted--we'll never know.

by Anonymousreply 430April 17, 2023 5:40 PM

[quote] Peter Friedman and David Rasche deserve accolades for E4. Particularly Rasche, because he's consummate comedic actor, who's getting to show that side of himself.

Yup! He's always been great with satirical material, going all the way back to his Sledge Hammer days!

by Anonymousreply 431April 17, 2023 5:47 PM

We had predicted Gerri would be a bigger player this week, but she actually got crowded out very quickly by the men, just as Shiv did. It's very clear on this show that in this world women are just not valued as top players--even if they are promoted to top positions to look like the men are being fair, they are usually ignored anyway when push comes to shove.

by Anonymousreply 432April 17, 2023 5:50 PM

For sure. Shiv’s going to have to use her feminine wiles on Matsson in some way to get what she wants.

by Anonymousreply 433April 17, 2023 6:05 PM

Gerri would be the first to admit she's not up to the job.

by Anonymousreply 434April 17, 2023 6:22 PM

[quote] Jeremy Strong's hair colour is disgusting, can the Justin Theroux shoe polish hair just stop already? Go lighter, guys, you're too old for that tone.

In real life Jeremy Strong doesn't use that color--he goes greyish (tinged with white), which seems to be his natural color now.

The too-black hair dye is completely in keeping with Kendall's character. The character is such a douche (like Justin Theroux is in real life) that he thinks the all-black successfully fools people.

by Anonymousreply 435April 17, 2023 6:23 PM

[quote] For sure. Shiv’s going to have to use her feminine wiles on Matsson in some way to get what she wants.

She's bringing a trunkful of Nolan Miller turbans and picture hats aboard the Gulfstream in preparation to seduce him!

by Anonymousreply 436April 17, 2023 6:24 PM

You see the soapy what-if's over on Reddit too. Just read a thread wondering if Roman would have "a romance" with Kerry.

The problem is when you take plot developments and try to extrapolate them through a soapy lens. If Roman was kind to Kerry last night he was either emotionally unusual because the old man had been dead for a day or he was seeking to soften up an enemy for information at some point in future. But he wasn't dating.

by Anonymousreply 437April 17, 2023 6:54 PM

I was surprised to see Roman be kind to Kerry, but I am almost always surprised when he shows any kindness to anyone. He started out as by far the meanest of Logan's children (I couldn't stand him as a character at first), and though he still has the bitchy motormouth, he has been acting more selfless than his other siblings lately (though only at times).

by Anonymousreply 438April 17, 2023 6:57 PM

He was nice because he got a boner for a woman in distress. He was dtf.

by Anonymousreply 439April 17, 2023 6:58 PM

That was a mortified-for-LIFE moment for Kerry. We've seen the last of her. (We may have to see her being removed from the funeral.)

Loved the spit shake scene as well, especially Hiam Abbass' split second decision of either chastising Connor for the impropriety (you saw it in her face) or deciding to take the money and run. There's really no use for Marcia anymore either. This episode was a one and done.

by Anonymousreply 440April 17, 2023 6:59 PM

I liked Matthew McFadyen’s little after show blurb where he said he never has to bring the character home or try to imagine how he’s going to play a scene- that the writing is so good it just comes to him while they’re filming and he just has to say these great lines.

He obviously practices the anti-Method acting route. He probably got along well with Brian Cox.

by Anonymousreply 441April 17, 2023 7:01 PM

I want Kendall and Roman to dump Hugo and his little insider trading nothing-burger, and bring in Peter Capaldi.

by Anonymousreply 442April 17, 2023 7:03 PM

I think she'll be around a bit more than one or done, but not much. Too soapy now for her to really blow the lid off anything.

by Anonymousreply 443April 17, 2023 7:10 PM

Reddit figured out most of the letter. Seems like Logan wants to be buried with a picture of his sister, Rose, and a picture of Marcia in his jacket pockets

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 444April 17, 2023 7:22 PM

R444, thx. V interesting.

by Anonymousreply 445April 17, 2023 7:24 PM

[quote]For sure. Shiv’s going to have to use her feminine wiles on Matsson in some way to get what she wants.

JFC when will you queens who are stuck in the 80s realize that this show is not Dynasty, no matter how much you want it to be?

by Anonymousreply 446April 17, 2023 7:33 PM

They're just yanking your crank, r446.

by Anonymousreply 447April 17, 2023 7:49 PM

Has anyone noticed that Greg and Marcia seemed to have gotten chummy with one another, especially with that scene of Kerry dropping things out of her purse? I still don't count Greg out of having a few things up his sleeves, and I can see Marcia exposing Kendall about that car accident once he does that smear campaign on Logan.

by Anonymousreply 448April 17, 2023 7:58 PM

Nah. Marcia was humoring Greg. She knows what he’s up to.

by Anonymousreply 449April 17, 2023 8:08 PM

Marcia cannot expose Kendall without exposing herself as an accessory after the fact.

by Anonymousreply 450April 17, 2023 8:36 PM

Accessory to what? there's no criminal risk. There was little evidence of anything criminal at the time. The kid grabbed the wheel to escape the deer.

by Anonymousreply 451April 17, 2023 8:43 PM

I thought Greg was just awkwardly trying to suck up to Marcia now that he could see Kerry was absolutely on her way out, and the siblings had just shown their disrespect towards him.

One of the the funniest things about Greg is he is always trying to suck up to as many powerful people as possible but always being too ham-fisted about it.

by Anonymousreply 452April 17, 2023 8:53 PM

Anyone else think Marcia knows Shiv is pregnant? There was a lingering gaze from Marcia to Shiv when they were on the stairs. I think she saw her boobs and said, ‘Yep. Pregnant.’

by Anonymousreply 453April 17, 2023 9:01 PM

I give that a maybe, R453, but I can't see Marcia's advantage in knowing so. She won't be there next week since it looks like the Bradys are all going to the Grand Canyon, but I assume she'll be around for the reading of the will (if that's a thing) and I don't know where she lands on the trust and her voting inheritance from Logan.

The big part about Marcia's reduction on the canvas, as I understand it, was the conflict between this show and Ramy, where she had a lead part. Ramy wasn't shooting when S4 went into production so it's possible she was free to play a bigger part again on Succession. So far as we know, she was two have two votes in the family trust (S1) and wanted her position on the trust finalized (S3.) But that can mean anything the writers want it to mean. The other thing I find interesting is, if the letter means anything, per the link upthread Logan had strong feelings for Marsha (wanting to be buried with a photograph of her) so she is not necessarily getting bumped outta the will or anything devastating.

I love Marcia (the gays and strong women, eh?) but it's good casting, good acting and reasonably good writing that created this character people wonder about.

by Anonymousreply 454April 17, 2023 9:31 PM

I don’t think there will be an advantage per se, she’s just the first to notice.

The reading of the Will will be interesting if we see it.

by Anonymousreply 455April 17, 2023 10:01 PM

I heart Arian Moayed (Stewy.) He has long fingers. Fetish of mine.

by Anonymousreply 456April 17, 2023 10:05 PM

are there shirtless pics of Moayed?

by Anonymousreply 457April 17, 2023 10:05 PM

[quote] I heart Arian Moayed (Stewy.) He has long fingers. Fetish of mine.

And sexy feets, too (yes, he's on Wiki Feet Men, and that's a fetish of mine! Lol)/

by Anonymousreply 458April 17, 2023 10:20 PM

[quote]I thought Greg was just awkwardly trying to suck up to Marcia now that he could see Kerry was absolutely on her way out, and the siblings had just shown their disrespect towards him.

Like other examples, I thought this was a shout to the first episodes when the kids are blowing Greg off & he's awkwardly sucking up to Marcia, who sends him on an errand to get Logan's slippers as a means to get him out of her hair.

I think he's going to end up back where he started - at the amusement park, in some hellish position

by Anonymousreply 459April 17, 2023 11:36 PM

R426: I clearly heard “The Princes,” not “The Princess.”

I think in the end the show will be morality tale in which those who do the least scheming are the ones who gain the most. People forget Marcia knows about Kendall killing the cater-waiter. Who knows what other secrets she can use as leverage.

Meanwhile, Kendall, Roman, and Shiv always make a big production of excluding Connor. I think the recent references to his mother foreshadow a recognition he actually hates his family and maybe he should proactively destroy his fathers’ legacy.

by Anonymousreply 460April 17, 2023 11:48 PM

This season gets better with every episode.

by Anonymousreply 461April 18, 2023 1:30 AM

The funniest thing to me about the letter is Logan requesting “Here I Am, Lord” for his funeral Mass. A of Catholic traditionalists think that song is hippie / New Agey dreck because it’s from the 90s rather than a more old-fashioned hymn.

by Anonymousreply 462April 18, 2023 1:45 AM

Has Greg shown any competence at anything? He seems special needs.

by Anonymousreply 463April 18, 2023 1:46 AM

Matsson can easily score tons of gorgeous women r433, he does not need ham hock thighed Shiv to offer up her soon to be even more stretched out cooze.

by Anonymousreply 464April 18, 2023 2:02 AM

Greg helped Tom make a mark shortly after Tom became chairman of global broadcast news—he gave Tom the idea to digitize the production chain at ATN. Season 2, episode 2, “Vaulter.”

by Anonymousreply 465April 18, 2023 3:04 AM

[quote]How much are all the kids worth? Are they all billionaires too, or just have a few hundred millions each?

Most of the kids net worth is in the form of stock they own in Waystar. In season 1, Stewie says Kendall's shares are worth 500 million. I think they decided to make the characters richer and in Season 3 Kendall is offered 2 billion for his shares.

Who knows if Kendall owns more stock than the other siblings, I would imagine it's similar.

by Anonymousreply 466April 18, 2023 3:28 AM

R426 I thought he said "the princes" - Kendall/Roman.

by Anonymousreply 467April 18, 2023 7:13 AM

Yes, he said princes, not princess.

by Anonymousreply 468April 18, 2023 6:55 PM

I think he said princess but he was talking about Gerri. His next line - uninterrupted - is about Gerri and his package. I think his concern was over Gerri's legal reaction to the document. He plainly wanted it ignored.

by Anonymousreply 469April 18, 2023 6:58 PM

Frank and Karl didn't seem to like the document, and they had the opportunity to destroy it without anyone ever finding out. So why did they then turn around and show it to everyone?

by Anonymousreply 470April 18, 2023 7:11 PM

I thought the final exchange between Kendall and Hugo was a killer way to close the episode. Full circling back to the strap on reference. Calm smile on Kendall's face. He's no longer the nervous insecure hype man douche bro that he was during the Vaulter deal in Season One. He's a wizened old pro.

by Anonymousreply 471April 18, 2023 7:13 PM

A pro at addictions

by Anonymousreply 472April 18, 2023 7:16 PM

Shiv needs to be shanked.

by Anonymousreply 473April 18, 2023 7:37 PM

Not that it should come as any surprise, but I was kind of sad to see the coalition of Roy kids fall apart so easily since standing together is really the only chance they have.

by Anonymousreply 474April 18, 2023 7:40 PM

Do the captions/subtitles use the script or are they computer-generated (the subtitles had “princess”).

by Anonymousreply 475April 18, 2023 7:59 PM

My subtitles seem inaccurate. I don't know the source but it often diverges from what's said. Example: Marsha says on captioning: We are calling Kerry a taxi. On screen We are calling her a taxi. Doesn't make a difference. My screen said princess. Maybe it meant princes. But I also posted R469, which was due to a line break in the captioning. Succession scripts/dialogue doesn't always make linear sense, I find.

by Anonymousreply 476April 18, 2023 10:03 PM

Also, I think people (myself included) way over analyse the subtext of this show. That's for Game of Thrones and David Lynch. I don't really get the impression the creative team is hiding easter eggs for viewers. (On Reddit there's a credible assertion, however, that the season 4 promo art of Logan and kids, Tom, etc includes the letter from last Sunday. But there's so much subtext malarky, too, i.e. could Marcia have been a prostitute too and that's why Willa insulted her or Kendall's initials are K L R - killer - which Logan said he wasn't.) Succession strikes me as a pretty straightforward show, overall.

by Anonymousreply 477April 18, 2023 10:07 PM

^I never thought Marcia was a prostitute, but I love that Willa doesn't take her shit & reminds her that they're both women that fuck for $$

by Anonymousreply 478April 18, 2023 11:03 PM

Yep r414.

Interviews have seemed to confirm that this season does indeed take place over 10 days. So when people think about the final plotlines remember we literally have timeframe of 6 days til we are getting some ending.

In the premiere Connor says the election is 10 days out, so the finale episode will be the Presidential election.

by Anonymousreply 479April 19, 2023 12:04 AM

R479 I was confused by Connor... he wanted to make sure he had at least1% (so he wouldn't be embarrassed? qualify for a debate?) and said the election was in 10 days.... so that had to be a primary of Connor was running as an independent.

by Anonymousreply 480April 19, 2023 2:12 AM

I wonder if this election storyline is a dud. It's got no attention since last season. It doesn't feel urgent.

by Anonymousreply 481April 19, 2023 2:20 AM

Watch Stewy. He didn't back Kendall out of kindness or loyalty.

by Anonymousreply 482April 19, 2023 2:49 AM

If it's ten days before a presidential election, isn't it too late for televised debates?

Connor says he wants to be above 1% because he "wants to be part of the conversation" regarding the election. I don't know what that means or how being over 1% qualifies him.

by Anonymousreply 483April 19, 2023 3:41 AM

You have to reach a certain threshold to qualify for your party to get federal funds in the next election.

by Anonymousreply 484April 19, 2023 5:21 AM

You have to climb Mount Everest to reach the Valley of the Dolls.

by Anonymousreply 485April 19, 2023 5:33 AM

Thanks R485. That made me chuckle.

by Anonymousreply 486April 19, 2023 8:58 AM

I am so glad he died. I was honestly dreading this season because most of last season had me screaming in frustration as every episode was 70% inane, go-nowhere dialogue like, "You know, I dunno...no? Yeah? Shiv, no, right? Or no—yeah, no, right?" It was maddening.

I studied creative writing and a major limitation of mine is that I like writing dialogue and I am not great at developing active plots. I feel like the same may be true of this series's writers, and that may even be why we ended up with an entire episode featuring a man on the floor getting chest compressions—which in this case worked very well dramatically.

Logan's dying seems to have propelled the action along so there is finally more going on than snarky banter and that endless looping question of what kid will inherit the media empire. I am so glad for it.

Interestingly, until I saw someone above discussing who will "win," I had actually stopped thinking in those terms since Logan died. I am more interested in the present action now rather than the ultimate outcome and I think that's a good thing.

I was tempted to skip this season because the last one was really hard to watch, at least for me. But so far, it's much better—less meaningless chatter, and we're finally unstuck from the endless hinting that Kendall/Shiv/Roman/Geri will be "the chosen one." Blah.

--

One tiny detail I always find amusing: I am hard of hearing in one ear and I watch everything with captions. All of the dialogue in this show is tagged as dislogue usually is, with the words that are spoken by any given character simply written on the screen, with one exception: anytime Tom speaks, his dialogue is always preceded by "TOM WOMBSGANS:" Either the writers or the captioners must be really tickled by his silly name because they type out the full thing every time he speaks, and no one else gets that treatment.

by Anonymousreply 487April 19, 2023 9:58 AM

[quote] It seems less clear how much each sibling has apart from that

R397, in a previous season, after Kendall’s failed coup against his father, Logan offered to buy him out for $2bn, which Kendall acknowledged was generous.

Earlier in this season, when the three siblings looked at the financing for their Pierce takeover, it was made very clear how much they could put together once cashing out thanks to Gojo. I don’t entirely remember what the amount was. $3bn? $4?

by Anonymousreply 488April 19, 2023 10:03 AM

Fun fact: Gojo Industries Inc. exists in real life and it is the company that manufactures Purell.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 489April 19, 2023 10:11 AM

r482: "Watch Stewy."

I have. His pants are still on.

by Anonymousreply 490April 19, 2023 10:31 AM

R489 in the employee restroom at my work there’s a soap station with the Gojo name on it and it makes me chuckle every time I see it.

by Anonymousreply 491April 19, 2023 1:00 PM

If it’s 10 days before the election, then Connor is obviously not the Republican nominee. So why is he talking about a “honeymoon” tour of primary states? Makes absolutely no sense.

by Anonymousreply 492April 19, 2023 2:35 PM

Those were swung states listed r492. Presumably Connor is a third party candidate. A preview showed them asking him to drop out so I assume they are worried about him being a spoiler for Menken.

by Anonymousreply 493April 19, 2023 4:28 PM

I thought I had read somewhere among the many, many Succession recaps and analyses that Connor's poll percentage rises quite a bit owing to the death of his father and continuing his heritage in the WH. May have been conjecture.

by Anonymousreply 494April 19, 2023 5:21 PM

That seems like bad conjecture r494. Logan has no "heritage in the WH" to carry on. I hope they continue to treat Connor's presidential run as the sad and stupid joke it is.

by Anonymousreply 495April 19, 2023 5:26 PM

That’s an awfully big but half-baked subplot to throw into the mix, especially when we’ve seen or heard virtually nothing of his “campaign” since the GOP donor-fest in season 3. Rare misstep for this series.

by Anonymousreply 496April 19, 2023 6:39 PM

R496, I agree. I am skeptical about how we're really supposed to care about the election plot. There's no urgency to it at all. It's nothing since the Menken episode when they decided to back him. Connor's campaign doesn't exist.

I know everybody thinks the writing is sacred on this show, but it's not really. There is a lot of telling, not showing, the inverse of which is supposed to be the basis of good fiction writing. It's still the best show on TV but they take a lot of short cuts. Example, for me, I didn't realize Logan had assumed the reins as CEO again, from Gerri, so I went into last week thinking she was still acting. Same thing with Logan and Kerry... we only have her word that they were anything, let alone talking marriage. Logan basically just leered at her and relied on her. Is Marcia lying when she said they were in constant contact? Ambiguity is effective but at some point you're more Bill Bell's Y&R than Emmy winner for best writing in a drama series Succession if you don't pay it off or leave it dangling or drop it or just talk about it.

by Anonymousreply 497April 19, 2023 7:19 PM

Kerry's voice before the pill dropping: I'm good, I'm good, I'm good!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 498April 19, 2023 8:39 PM

The Connor election plot is pretty straight forward, he's not going to win, but he could drag enough right wing votes away from the Republican candidate to swing the vote to the Democrats. Currently his 1% is no danger but the wedding, Logans death and a couple of appealing campaign policies might put him between a ruthless neo nazi and the most powerful position in the world.... much hilarity will ensue.

by Anonymousreply 499April 19, 2023 11:53 PM

It feels like the presidential politics subplot (not just Connor, but Mencken and Shiv’s ex horse, liberal Senator Gil Eavis) was going to be the primary focus of an entire season, but when they decided to call it quits at season 4, it was basically orphaned, with one narrative foot (Connor) still kinda, sorta in, awkwardly.

by Anonymousreply 500April 20, 2023 12:00 AM

I agree r500. They just seemed to lose interest in Shiv's budding career in liberal politics early on, and I don't blame them. It seemed like a rather silly conflict for a different show, rather than anything real.

by Anonymousreply 501April 20, 2023 12:04 AM

I'm excited about Mencken and the politics plot playing out because I don't think it's a coincidence how much sexual tension they inserted into Roman and Mencken meeting each other last season. And now Roman has split from Gerri, so he is in need of another alpha to dominate him. I am hoping we are getting some pay off from those two this season.

by Anonymousreply 502April 20, 2023 12:41 AM

Same.

by Anonymousreply 503April 20, 2023 12:54 AM

There was a lot of sexual tension in that bathroom in Logan’s suite in “What It Takes.”

by Anonymousreply 504April 20, 2023 3:30 AM

I re-watched seasons 1 through 3 in the span of one week. I shouldn’t have done it. My head hurts. Roman’s ramblings are the absolute fucking worst. Followed by Greg’s. Their dialogue in particular gives new meaning to the words frantic and ridiculous. Now that Logan is gone, I think it’s time to put this show to bed.

by Anonymousreply 505April 20, 2023 6:00 PM

That’s how I felt when I tried to rewatch My So-Called Life a few years back. I swear every 10th word was ‘like’ and it was so painful to hear. Brian Krakow was, like, the worst, like, the length of every, like, sentence was doubled, or something, because, like, he said like so much. Awful

by Anonymousreply 506April 20, 2023 6:19 PM

Succession is very well-done AND it’s no House of Cards or Breaking Bad. I feel like it’s more character driven and so yes, losing Logan is an issue. But whatevs.

by Anonymousreply 507April 20, 2023 6:31 PM

"It's so horrible I had to watch it again from the very beginning!"

by Anonymousreply 508April 20, 2023 6:33 PM

[quote]Succession is very well-done AND it’s no House of Cards or Breaking Bad. I feel like it’s more character driven and so yes, losing Logan is an issue. But whatevs.

I agree, though in a COVID/post-COVID world, its like lifestyle porn, all of these people flying around in helicopters & vacationing in Italy. The actors are also individually very good & have great chemistry. I've seen Brian Cox in any number of things & while he was good, I don't ever recall a role as memorable as Logan.

by Anonymousreply 509April 20, 2023 6:52 PM

[quote] I re-watched seasons 1 through 3 in the span of one week. I shouldn’t have done it. My head hurts. Roman’s ramblings are the absolute fucking worst. Followed by Greg’s. Their dialogue in particular gives new meaning to the words frantic and ridiculous. Now that Logan is gone, I think it’s time to put this show to bed.

Poor sweet darling baby! How you've suffered! How AWFUL someone forced you to watch it all at once straight through.

by Anonymousreply 510April 20, 2023 7:00 PM

I loved Brian Cox’s small role as a writing guru in ADAPTATION.

by Anonymousreply 511April 20, 2023 7:01 PM

I was just about to mention that R511. He was great parodying screenwriting guru Robert McKee.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 512April 20, 2023 7:13 PM

I love Charlie Kaufman and especially ADAPTATION. My mind is blown right now. I didn't ever make the connection. That's Brian Cox!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 513April 21, 2023 4:57 AM

This episode was more subtle but imho was the best.

Kendall directing Hugo to go rogue with scorch earth info on Logan, finally is Kendall stepping up to the killer mantra.

This will of course backfire on Hugo who was going to be fired regardless and also on Kendall being who’ll be exposed as an actual murderer.

However, this will be in the sixth episode, after the ‘Brady’s trip to the Grand Canyon’ to scheme and to be crushed by Matsson (while wearing a plethora of earth tone cashmere pieces). Loro Piano I’m sure.

by Anonymousreply 514April 21, 2023 9:07 AM

Next episode is the orgy scene. Think ‘Caligula’ but with more incest and Tom going up inside Greg.

Can’t wait.

by Anonymousreply 515April 21, 2023 9:16 AM

Give me your AIDS babies, Tom!!!!

by Anonymousreply 516April 21, 2023 9:57 AM

They should save the orgy and Caligula scenes for the funeral:

Tom and Greg fucking next to Logan’s coffin

Kendall/shiv/Roman fucking on Logan’s coffin

The old Guard getting it on

Kerry doin it for herself while screaming ‘we were going to get married!!’

Sandy and his ‘that’s just has face’ smiling and pissing on Logan’s coffin.

Mondale fucking the police sniffer dog

Matsson, Stewy, Nan Pierce, Menken are invoked in some shenanigans.

The possibilities are endless!

(But Connor isn’t there because the kids forgot to invite him).

by Anonymousreply 517April 21, 2023 2:46 PM

I picture a good old fashioned Event Horizon style blood orgy.

by Anonymousreply 518April 21, 2023 2:57 PM

I’m probably a sicko, but I was so hoping for a director’s cut of that movie to be released in 2017 so we could have more scenes of that messed up blood orgy. Cutting out eyeballs, poking out teeth, pulling intestines out through the mouth- give me more!

by Anonymousreply 519April 21, 2023 3:28 PM

R519 the full, uncut blood orgy scene was as if someone filmed the joke the Aristocrats.

by Anonymousreply 520April 21, 2023 3:42 PM

[quote]This will of course backfire on Hugo who was going to be fired regardless and also on Kendall being who’ll be exposed as an actual murderer.

Kendall didn't murder anyone, Drama Queen.

by Anonymousreply 521April 21, 2023 4:26 PM

You can live in Kendall Roy's place:

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 522April 21, 2023 4:54 PM

Yeah, how is Kendall all of a sudden a “murderer”? He left the scene of an accidental drowning. That’s not even manslaughter.

by Anonymousreply 523April 21, 2023 5:07 PM

He was driving under the influence. It’s murder.

by Anonymousreply 524April 21, 2023 5:41 PM

The kid grabbed the wheel. It was not murder. Not even close.

by Anonymousreply 525April 21, 2023 5:45 PM

Kendall knows he killed the kid. Why don’t you?

Besides, “the dead guy grabbed the wheel” is not likely to be an effective defense.

by Anonymousreply 526April 21, 2023 5:51 PM

He didn't appear drunk. He had smoked part of a doob. He was looking down at the stick when the deer came into view and the kid grabbed the wheel.

Sorry, R526. Not murder. An accident.

by Anonymousreply 527April 21, 2023 5:55 PM

It's vehicular manslaughter if you kill someone while driving under the influence, which Kendall was

by Anonymousreply 528April 21, 2023 6:09 PM

"Vehicular manslaughter" and "murder" are not the same thing, and the poster above said "murder".

In no possible way could what happened with Kendall and the cater-waiter be construed as murder.

by Anonymousreply 529April 21, 2023 6:15 PM

MURDERER!

by Anonymousreply 530April 21, 2023 6:16 PM

R527 They'd done coke, right? They were going to buy more coke, right? Driving under the influence, accident, somebody dies.... it's at least manslaughter anywhere in the world.

by Anonymousreply 531April 21, 2023 6:18 PM

How could they ever prove Kendall was under the influence so long after the fact? It would be extremely unlikely he could be charged with that.

[quote]it's at least manslaughter anywhere in the world.

You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

by Anonymousreply 532April 21, 2023 6:20 PM

It depends on the jurisdiction.

“DUI murder charges are generally filed where the prosecutor can show that the defendant knew about the risk of impaired driving and consciously ignored this risk when he or she chose to drive while under the influence. Murder charges usually require a showing of intentional conduct, however the California Supreme Court has found that consciously ignoring the risk of impaired driving and subsequently being involved in a DUI fatality meets the criteria for murder.”

by Anonymousreply 533April 21, 2023 6:20 PM

Well, the “jurisdiction” is England since that’s where it happened.

by Anonymousreply 534April 21, 2023 6:21 PM

The real thing about the story coming out is not the legal aspect, it's the court of public opinion. That matters more.

Kendall left the scene of the accident and covered up his role in this kid's death. That would get him destroyed PR wise.

The legal charge becomes immaterial, as the old adage says if you are explaining you are losing.

by Anonymousreply 535April 21, 2023 6:26 PM

The legal charge absolutely does not become immaterial. I would far rather be judged as a bad person in the court of public opinion than go to jail for vehicular manslaughter.

by Anonymousreply 536April 21, 2023 6:32 PM

Vehicular manslaughter? Vehicular MURDER!

by Anonymousreply 537April 21, 2023 6:39 PM

Chappaquiddick, right? The Ur Slimeball-of-privilege Event upon which this was patterned, eh?

Court of public opinion indeed....

by Anonymousreply 538April 21, 2023 6:42 PM

You mean all this time we could have been friends?

by Anonymousreply 539April 21, 2023 8:19 PM

It's right that it would be very, very difficult to prove much against Kendall - even if he'd been found out that night. Years later, what's left? There were no witnesses to their drug use. He hadn't done coke that night, just weed. He was looking to score coke. In any event, a hit only lasts forty minutes or so, so if anything was residual in his system, it wouldn't tell you much in the period after the situation. Plus, you'd have to have a basis to do the blood tests. Easier at the scene in the aftermath even than in the next day. You can't just run around demanding people's blood because maybe you wonder if they might have been high. At the scene, the kid's body was not strapped in, so there is no way to prove he was in the passenger's seat. Plus, all the people who know the truth are now compromised by the cover up they concocted for their own ends. The whole thing is messy and it's hard to see how outing it all these years later would result in any criminal liability.

But a thousand per cent yes - the reputation damage would be real and significant, then or now or in future.

by Anonymousreply 540April 21, 2023 8:36 PM

Also, add in extradition and stretched resources within the Crown. This turkey would be very unlikely to result in criminal charges. They could barely get Ann Secoulas to play ball and she killed the kid in broad daylight and admitted it, before she scuttled back to the safety of the States.

by Anonymousreply 541April 21, 2023 8:39 PM

"When making this decision, the CPS will have to consider whether the Full Code Test is met for the charge that is brought, i.e. [italics]whether on the basis of the evidence that is available, the court is more likely than not to convict the defendant. [/italic] This would need to include a consideration of the probable attitude of the jury towards the defendant’s case. Where the evidence is strong enough to support a charge of manslaughter, the CPS would then consider whether it is in the public interest to bring a charge of manslaughter rather than a charge for death by dangerous driving."

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by Anonymousreply 542April 21, 2023 8:44 PM

On the basis of the evidence available, you can't even put Kendall behind the wheel.

by Anonymousreply 543April 21, 2023 8:46 PM

[quote] They'd done coke, right?

Wrong.

Kendall had only smoked a joint, and it is incredibly anyone could prove it now.

by Anonymousreply 544April 21, 2023 8:57 PM

Sorry, I meant "incredibly unlikely"

by Anonymousreply 545April 21, 2023 9:01 PM

Are you high, R544?

by Anonymousreply 546April 21, 2023 9:04 PM

I don’t think the Kendall drug accident will resurface. One of the points of the show is that money can buy you out of anything…except personal misery and emptiness. I suspect Connor will be the only sibling relatively content at the end of the series.

by Anonymousreply 547April 21, 2023 9:05 PM

Here’s the thing…..the fact that Kendall left the scene of an accident makes any testimony he provides highly questionable. He could make up any story he wants now, and that is precisely what he would be accused of doing here. #Chappa-jacent.

by Anonymousreply 548April 21, 2023 9:31 PM

So many experts on British law here!

by Anonymousreply 549April 21, 2023 9:38 PM

For the testimony to be questionable, you'd have to first place him at the scene of the accident, then the police would have to determine there was evidence of a crime and then the CPS determined sufficient evidence to prove a crime. To quote Succession, it doesn't work.

by Anonymousreply 550April 21, 2023 9:52 PM

Marcia, her son, bodyguard Colin, Shiv, and Roman know what happened. Kendall needs to watch his ass. I wouldn’t put it past any of them to stir up some shit if Kendall pisses any one of them off.

by Anonymousreply 551April 21, 2023 10:17 PM

How are these siblings going to cough up $10 billion? They made that promise without even knowing if they could afford it.

by Anonymousreply 552April 21, 2023 10:22 PM

R552, they’re going to have a bake sale.

by Anonymousreply 553April 21, 2023 10:29 PM

About two years have passed since the waiter snatched the wheel and the car went into the river. (Logan turns 80 in the pilot and turns 82 in the season 4 premiere.)

by Anonymousreply 554April 21, 2023 10:44 PM

Maybe they could withdraw their promise to Nan Pierce since it was verbal and half-baked.

by Anonymousreply 555April 21, 2023 11:04 PM

I agree with everyone saying Kendall has no actual criminal worries. But I agree even more with those saying he would have serious PR worries. Hell, they got that old fucker Logan to visit the family just because they claimed he bullied the kid to death.

by Anonymousreply 556April 21, 2023 11:08 PM

Agreed, R551. Marcia advantage and Amir for money/position behind the scenes; Colin to cover his own ass in the cover up; Shiv and Roman for leverage/advantage. But I just don't think they'll go the criminal route.

by Anonymousreply 557April 21, 2023 11:08 PM

R552 If I remember correctly they were on the phone to a financial advisor who was giving them green light on the bids.

by Anonymousreply 558April 22, 2023 1:59 AM

R549, point taken, but! But some of the opinions here don’t even hinge on law. There’s almost no way to prove a case in a court of law, Kendall’s testimony would be fucked as soon as it came out that he left an accident scene, and it would be a pr nightmare — none of these require one to understand the British court system and their legal definitions etc.

by Anonymousreply 559April 22, 2023 2:31 AM

This thread is about to be full soon, so I created the thread one here.

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by Anonymousreply 560April 22, 2023 4:46 AM

*third one

by Anonymousreply 561April 22, 2023 4:47 AM

R554, good catch. I find continuity a bit Y&R on this show. They don't seem to mind changing it up to suit where they are. I hate that, personally.

by Anonymousreply 562April 22, 2023 3:05 PM

1. If it came down to it, Kendall could say that he originally thought that the boy left HIM to die in the river. That he stayed at the scene for a long time trying to find the kid in the water (this is actually true) and waited for him to surface or emerge or come back, and he never did -- leaving Kendall to feel that the boy got away first, abandoning him.

2. How could anyone prove who was driving that night? It was the cater-waiter's car.

3. The whole thing is a he said/she said mess of nothing

4. Even the sibs agreed that it wasn't actually Kenny's fault, and he shouldn't view it as having killed the kid. It was a tragic accident. Not murder. I don't know how things are going to unfold from here but can you actually imagine Shiv or Roman turning on Kendall publicly and pinning a "murder" on him that they previously rolled their eyes at when he presented it as such? If they can't buy it as MURDER!!! they would naturally assume that other people wouldn't see it that way either.

by Anonymousreply 563April 22, 2023 3:24 PM

It wouldn't be the death, it would be the cover up. Of all the people who know, Shiv and Roman are the only ones who aren't involved. They found out (in Succession) a few months ago. They can out him without damage to their own interests. When you consider how strongly Roman reacted against the very plan to blacken Logan's reputation that Kendall has now given the green light, it's not hard to imagine Shiv and Roman pulling the plug to advance their own interests.

by Anonymousreply 564April 22, 2023 3:33 PM

No one has even brought up the Kendall incident on the show this season. Why is there a giant fappening about it?

by Anonymousreply 565April 22, 2023 5:23 PM

Kendall is going to be killed when he is walking along the sidewalk and hit by Meghan Draper jumping off a Manhattan high-rise balcony.

by Anonymousreply 566April 22, 2023 5:36 PM

I don’t think the three kids will be on good terms with each other when the show ends. Kendall will be “the winner” but no one will be happy.

Except Greg. I think that idiot might make out fine.

by Anonymousreply 567April 22, 2023 6:06 PM

I'm mostly curious right now if Shiv and Tom are going to call off the divorce now that she is carrying his baby.

I'm also very impressed with all of the DL pontificators who predicted the Shiv pregnancy storyline. Hats off to ya! I wasn't buying it, but now here we are.

by Anonymousreply 568April 22, 2023 6:11 PM

R565, if you subscribe to the theory it doesn't end well (on the basis Armstrong claims he's writing a tragedy and the entire creative teams says the kids aren't up to the job of running a company) people are looking for the reasons for downfall. For Kendall, the reputation damage associated with the death of the kid is an answer.

I'm not a big one for symbolism or easter eggs on this show, but there has been a hell of a lot of water around Kendall through out... the kid's death, the near drowning in Italy, and some visuals that show him around water in S4. I wouldn't bet the farm on the water theme but I would be surprised if the kid's death doesn't contribute to the resolution of Kendall's storyline.

by Anonymousreply 569April 22, 2023 6:13 PM
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by Anonymousreply 570April 22, 2023 6:28 PM

R568 what do you think? I think they’ll call off the divorce.

Thanks, I was one predicting a pregnancy! I knew there’d be some extra drama and they wouldn’t split so easily.

by Anonymousreply 571April 22, 2023 6:30 PM

Marry me, R570!

by Anonymousreply 572April 22, 2023 6:30 PM

R571 I think you're right. They'll call off the divorce. Tom is pushing hard to show her love and give her reasons to stay with him.

Also, Shiv is the only one who doesn't have a Big Secret that could come back to bite her in the ass. Roman has his dick pix. Kendall has the dead kid. Even Tom has secrets. He tampered with evidence in the Cruises division sex abuse case. Greg saved some of the evidence.

Right now Shiv is feeling kicked to the curb. If she is given a reason to retaliate, she has ammo to nuke Roman and Kendall with. She has a reason to fight for power. If not for herself, then for Tom, the father of her unborn child.

by Anonymousreply 573April 22, 2023 6:34 PM

I was thinking pregnancy was way too soapy and here we are. More surprisingly, on the podcast, one of the writers said it was a story they'd had as an option for some time.

by Anonymousreply 574April 22, 2023 6:34 PM

[quote] I was thinking pregnancy was way too soapy and here we are. More surprisingly, on the podcast, one of the writers said it was a story they'd had as an option for some time.

If they use Shiv falling down the steps to explain away her miscarriage, I don't want to hear another motherfucking thing from the snooty Succession stans that "IT'S NOT A SOAP! STOP CALLING IT A SOAP! IT'S A SHAKESPEAREAN DRAMA!!!"

by Anonymousreply 575April 22, 2023 6:39 PM

"R565, forget it, Jake. It's DL-town."

by Anonymousreply 576April 22, 2023 7:02 PM

R575 for sure, that would be so ridiculous. It was hardly a fall. She won’t get rid of the baby that easy- if she gets rid of it, she’ll have to choose for an abortion.

Based on her face when the doctor called last ep, I think she was hoping there was something wrong with the fetus so she could get rid of it guilt free.

by Anonymousreply 577April 22, 2023 7:23 PM

R577, same. Or she's worked out she'll never be entirely rid of Tom if she keeps it. I don't think there's a happy ending there. She can't get past his betrayal. She can dish it out, but she can't take it. It's easy to think she's normal. She's as fucked up as her brothers, she just hasn't really cracked up yet.

by Anonymousreply 578April 22, 2023 8:05 PM

R578 She's proceeding to crack-up currently, in realtime, this season

Tom's betrayal, HA! Shiv's the one who dropped a nuclear bomb on Tom on their weddding night by asking for an open relationship. On. Their. Wedding. Night.

I have hated her for that ever since.

by Anonymousreply 579April 22, 2023 8:19 PM

Via Shiv’s costumes, this season goes to show how cheaply made the show is, and that the budget has gone largely on exotic locales.

I suspect they are ending the show now in part due to money. Now female tailoring - business formal pants, blazers, blouses, as opposed to formal gowns - is not a skill most seamstresses and tailors have for women with large breasts, bottoms and round bellies, which is why Shiv looks like shit. They’re just shoving her into whatever fits because the wardrobe mistress doesn’t have the time or the skill

by Anonymousreply 580April 23, 2023 6:08 AM

She’s a woman who is pregnant, but is ambivalent and in denial about it, r580. Her costumes seem extremely on point.

by Anonymousreply 581April 23, 2023 11:42 AM

That makes sense r581 though her sartorial fall from grace began last season.

They should have given her some goop-esque cashmere knits.

by Anonymousreply 582April 23, 2023 11:55 AM

I don't think I care what happens anymore; not very much anyway. When does the new season of The Guilded Age drop?

by Anonymousreply 583April 23, 2023 5:19 PM

R583, I'm kinda with you. With the old man gone, it doesn't feel like the show has much juice. I am hating this one day a week format. I find it constricts the tension. The best episode was Logan's death... the rest feel too much like scene setters to me.

by Anonymousreply 584April 23, 2023 6:24 PM

There has been exactly one episode without Logan. Can you imagine trying to satisfy expectations for people like r583 and r584?

by Anonymousreply 585April 23, 2023 7:21 PM

No need to get huffy, R585. It's OK if other people have different opinions.

by Anonymousreply 586April 23, 2023 8:13 PM

R580 r581 there has been much unresolved discussion about this, she is dressed in poorly fitted garments on purpose. Some of the other women have luxury, fitted clothes. This article contains tweets w a lot of the discourse

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by Anonymousreply 587April 23, 2023 8:30 PM

That was a great read, R587

by Anonymousreply 588April 23, 2023 11:34 PM

It

by Anonymousreply 589April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

is

by Anonymousreply 590April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

the

by Anonymousreply 591April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

inevitable

by Anonymousreply 592April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

ending

by Anonymousreply 593April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

of

by Anonymousreply 594April 24, 2023 12:15 AM

this

by Anonymousreply 595April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

thread's

by Anonymousreply 596April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

life.

by Anonymousreply 597April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

Shut

by Anonymousreply 598April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

it

by Anonymousreply 599April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

down.

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by Anonymousreply 600April 24, 2023 12:16 AM

See you in the new thread!

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by Anonymousreply 601April 24, 2023 12:17 AM
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