SUCCESSION, Season 4, Thread 3

On what episode does Marcia’s “hot swarmy” son make an appearance ?

For those of you just joining us:

Welcome to Datalounge, the only Internet forum in the entire world where posters will insist you are a murderer if you get high on a joint and then ride [bold]as a passenger[bold] in a car and the driver is killed by his own bad driving.

R2 is a fuckwit. Kendal was driving.

Affirmative. R2=asshole. Kendall was driving.

Girls! GIRLS!!! Your bickering was boring in the earlier thread and it’s even more boring in this thread.

I've never understood why Shiv doesn't just walk away from all these toxic men. She knows she's going to get screwed. She knows it, yet she remains whiny and upset, and then gets the wrong end of everything. She's smart enough like the Murdoch daughter to just remove herself and go claim her own thing. Why be with those idiot brothers?

Shiv did that when she built her career in leftist politics, only to have Logan offer her the top job as a ploy. On some level Shiv still believes she could be CEO and not that her dad was playing her (because he didn’t support her politics, because he wanted her back in the fold, because he could ... who knows why).

Shiv’s as messed up as the rest of them. Daddy said ‘I want you here’ and she dropped everything and came running. Now she feels like she deserves the ceo job. Even though she has minimal to no experience.

She needs to divorce Tom and get rid of the baby as well. A baby will definitely not help her in her career, and I think she got pregnant as a fuck you to her mom who told Shiv some women weren’t meant to be mothers. She’s the kind of person who, if you tell them no, they will do something just to spite you. Even if it’s not helpful to them.

Succession is going to lose all the Emmys to Beef.

And rightly so.

Siobhan didn’t even do the management training program. She’s had the BS “president of domestic operations” title since early in season 3.

I'm the President of Domestic Operations too!

[quote] I've never understood why Shiv doesn't just walk away from all these toxic men. She knows she's going to get screwed. She knows it, yet she remains whiny and upset, and then gets the wrong end of everything. She's smart enough like the Murdoch daughter to just remove herself and go claim her own thing. Why be with those idiot brothers?

Maybe that's how it will end.

But which Murdoch daughter are you talking about? Elizabeth or Prudence, or the ones he had by Wendi Deng?

Siobhan reminds me of Shari Redstone crossed with Elisabeth Murdoch.

R12 Prue being the only child of Murdoch’s first marriage would make her the equivalent of Connor although she is very low profile as opposed to his presidential bid.

Prue has never been involved in the family business and seems to enjoy flying under the radar at home in Sydney. Sounds pretty good to me!

Kendall doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing, lol.

The compression socks!! Fucking great callback.

A+

Tom of Siobhan is the perfect insult for Tom. That was great.

This is the Succession-Goes-To-Moldavia episode, yeah?

What a spooky episode.

The comedy this episode was too broad for me. I could buy that Greg would act so awkwardly in front of Matsson, but it seemed unlikely to me that Tom would also do that.

The Greg and Tom thing so so embarrassing to watch. Fire them both.

Did Tom say barnacle meat?

"You're a tribute band"

Did Tom hit Shiv?

I just re-watched it--he flicked her ear hard after she was kicking stones on his shoes and mocking him.

A little dysfunctional foreplay. They’re definitely getting back together.

More incompetence from Kendall and Roman. It was nice they let Shiv be the smart one for a change.

This was the most Joan Collins-y episode yet, with a hot rogue billionaire offering to fuck Shiv during a deal, and Roman telling the same rogue billionaire, "I'll see you in hell first, Blake!" (or rather, "I fucking hate you!").

Mr. Vaulter.

I loved this episode so much

Great episode. The show needs a focal point and that was Mattson. He's one mean asshole. Kendall's delusional. Roman's too sentimental.

Let's go, Shiv! Drinking, flirting, doing coke while secretly pregnant with your soon-to-be ex-husband's child.

Sis does not give a fuck.

Tom actually having a backbone and standing up to Shiv definitely turned her on. She is used to him being a doormat. I guess she is going to tell him she is pregnant soon.

[Quote]It was nice they let Shiv be the smart one for a change.

Well they showed off something that has always been true, she is more adept socially than her brothers. They didn't really know how to talk to Mattson, she could form a connection. Even the way she pretended to do coke to help form the bond.

Though it did end up working. By trying to reject Mattson they did get him to go higher just so Mattson could spite them.

"Quad Squad"

I can't believe I used to have a nerd crush on Cousin Greg. He's become annoying as F U C K

Shiv never actually did the coke r32, and was just barely sipping on drinks if you pay attention.

R35 Ok thank you! That makes sense. It's the Art of the Shmooz.

I love the varying degrees of contempt people are showing now Logan's not around to keep everybody in kine.

R32 I don’t think she actually did the coke.

She was drinking whatever was in her glass, though,

I would guess Matsson is keeping Gerri, Kaolina, and tom because of Shiv.

"Take a picture of your brothers' faces for me". - "Ok.'

*CLICK*

So good!! They both looked like death on a Triscuit

She specifically tells Mattson that Karolina is good at her job, and also namechecks that Gerri would be a good legal resource for him r39.

Alex S. was really doing it for me this episode. So tall.

Tom definitely got saved because shiv. She wants him back.

I think Mattson's playing Shiv for now. It's all a game.

So as it stands Kendall and Roman agreed to sell all of Waystar and ATN for 193 billion?

But, they aren’t happy about it?

And shiv is …doing something sketchy.

They don't want to sell r46. Kendall wants to run Waystar himself and try to prove himself rather than selling it off.

It's not that Kendall and Roman agreed to the price, but the decision to sell is a board vote and basically Mattson is making an offer so good that the board would have to vote it through.

Stewy and sandi will definitely be happy because they wanted a higher price.

If the board agrees, can Kendall and Roman still stop the deal? Or would it be out of their hands? I think they would regret letting go of ATN and really want to keep that part of their dads legacy.

Shiv (who is being smart) wants to let it go.

Maybe if Shiv can get this deal through she and Tom can walk away from ATN and their past problems and start over as a family with the baby. They would never have to work another day in their lives.

Her final look made it clear it was really Shiv who was responsible for Matsson's offer at the end (or at least she thinks it is). Was it because she slept with him?

I was really confused by a number of things including the weird things tom said about Shiv's ears looking thick and chewy, and the thing about the barnacles. I guess the sense is they upset each other so much it makes Tom behave erratically in moments of anger towards her?

Did Tom say you can;t tell the difference between Swedes and Norwegians? It's really unlikely hearing that coming from someone born and bred in Minnesota.

She was kicking dirt on his shoes and insulting him so he flicked her ear and insulted her back. They’re very childish. It’s not a good relationship but they 100% will stay married and get back together.

I think maybe she was going to tell him about the baby if he had accepted her dinner invite.

I would’ve appreciated a Matsson in the sauna scene. Oh well. We did get a flash of abs.

R49, what do you mean they’d never have to work again? The siblings are already billionaires.

R44 I love it when Kendall gets a gleam in his eye! What’s he going to unleash on that stage? Hopefully his boy Squiggle cooked up some more beats!

Was that Greg naked in the sauna or one of the Norwegians?

R46, I don’t think it’s $192 billion. It’s $192/share.

Norwegian.

Greg was busy trying to be in The Quad. God he was so annoying this episode.

I think he was distancing himself from Tom a bit. But looks like Tom is good for now. Thanks to shiv. So Greg will be pals again next episode.

R57 thanks. I realized 193 billion was a bit too much after I posted!

Was Greg on the kill list? Or does he not rate enough to matter?

If the deal goes through and Matsson gets ATN, was he going to fire everyone, or just the higher ups?

Tom retains his job, so I guess Greg could be his assistant again if he’s kept.

R51 I’ve lived in Minnesota most of my life and I can’t tell the difference between fucking Swedes and Norwegians. It’s not 1870.

I don’t think Kendall is done trying to tank the deal.

I thought it was interesting Shiv said I broke his heart, he broke my heart. Didn't expect tht insight.

She wants him back.

I predict they will get back together after this fight on the balcony that we saw in the season 4 trailer:

Shiv: “You’re a snake”

Tom: “You have hurt me more than you can possibly imagine”

Then they’ll cry, apologize, she tells him she’s pregnant, they live unhappily ever after together.

Logan’s presence is missed. I understand why they killed him, but he was a great character.

[quote][R51] I’ve lived in Minnesota most of my life and I can’t tell the difference between fucking Swedes and Norwegians. It’s not 1870.

I was born and raised in Saint Paul, and I certainly can tell.

Male Norwegian-Americans still say "uff da!" (Norwegian for "oy vey!"), and have hairier backs.

Roman was wearing his dad’s sweater, wasn’t he? He’ll want to keep ATN for sentimental reasons.

It’s weird to think about how only 4 days have passed in their world since Tom and Shiv decided to get divorced. It feels like they’ve been in limbo forever.

But now, after a particularly good earlobe flicking, Shiv is asking him out for dinner. They will call the divorce off by day (episode) 8.

Wouldn't Karl and Frank be happier at this moment cashing out for good? I was surprised they still want to work given how old they are and how mercurial and mind-fucking Mattson is. Gerri and Frank can really tell off Roman now. I understood why Karolina would want to stay because she's still young. I'm surprised Gerri wants to stay, but maybe she wants to work with no roys since they consistently treated her so badly at the end.

Where does this leave the Pierce deal? DOA? It can’t merge with ATN now, at least not with the Roy kids in charge of it.

I just want to see Nan again. She’s awesome.

I'm glad they brought back the spectre of Menken. Loved Roman's face as he denied know about any alliance. Glad to hear Shiv still has liberal ideas.

Alexander Sarsgaard is one hot motherfucker.

How good is this show ? Recommend?

Was Matsson just playing mindfuck with the story of sending the blood to Ebba? it looked like Shiv didn't believe it but was just playing along with it to see where it went. I also wasn't clear whether Matsson really felt he went too far with Roman. I'm pretty confident Roman's reaction was real, however--they've done a lot this season to establish he has a conscience about some things (throwing Kerri out, for example),

r73, it's a smart show, and has hilariously snappy dialogue (when the characters aren't doing faux-naturalistic hemming and hawing). I know a lot of people who tried it and did not stay with it because none of the characters are nice people (they're all out-and-out monsters or they appear normal but are capable of doing despicable things).

R75, like Beeaking Bad ?

T67 Great catch with the sweater!

Oops Sorry R67! The above post at R77 is for you xo

Mwah

Alexander Skarsgård is good at playing sleazy villains. He should go for more characters like that instead of trying to be a leading man in Hollywood.

Do we think he’s broader than Tom? Taller, yes, but Tom is pretty beefy. Shiv, you fibber.

Poor Connor had to give up dinner with working-class whites from Cleveland to dress his father for the funeral. From Cleveland! And his sibs don’t even care! One even called him a moron. For shame!

For real, at least his has Willa. I liked that she told him not to let them bully him.

Askars' stream looked so potent, I'd've knelt right in front of him and lapped it all up if I were in Roman's place.

Shame it's wasted on a frau in real life.

When you run out of ideas, I'm here for you.

I see Cousin Greg’s glitch continued this episode.

The person above who said this was a spooky episode was right on. Very tense. I half expected the Roy team to be slaughtered out there in the middle of nowhere with those weirdos.

This ep seemed to be setting up a lot of things we will hear about again.

Kieran C. Seems to be adopting Jeremy Strong’s method acting.. Is it contagious?

R75, I avoided this show so long that I started able to binge the first three series. I avoided it for the same reason. I thought it would be unrelentingly grim, with no one to like. There is, in fact, really no one to like, but the the locations, photography and scoring make in like a movie and the characters have flickers of humanity that surface from time to time, and the snark humour breaks the tension. I don't think it's the greatest show in television - obviously that was Love Boat - but it's in the top five and it might be greatest, it all depends on the ending. Somehow it doesn't break through for me with the character development. None of them seem much different than they did in E1.

The literary snobs will excoriate me and vomit that I said this, but hey, we all have to orgasm somehow: I think the writing may be a shade too subtle. I like a show to have clarity... I don't like there to be ambiguity about who and why in the end. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, to me, I'd prefer it all to come together and make sense at the end. Example, there's no definitive answer about why Logan and his brother ruptured, yet Logan still made the brother pretty wealthy. What happened to Rose? (Andy why dangle it if you're not going to pay it off?) Gone with the Wind, as an example, ends with a cliffhanger but it's satisfying because the characters have reached the end of their personal stories. They are much different people at the end than when they started out. I know in real life we go to our graves not knowing lots of things, but it seems to me the point of fiction is to tie up loose ends and from that provide some clarity that delivers meaning or resolution.

R65, me too. Mattson's fratty peevishness and bullying and slight mental illness gave the show the edge it needed again. It's clear to me the characters of the kids are seen as unable to lead. They need a foil. It was Mattson last night, their father before that (could yet be Marcia?) Those kids are Wile E. Coyote.

[quote]Wouldn't Karl and Frank be happier at this moment cashing out for good?

Yes, R69. And they were the only ones who reacted positively to the kill list. Didn't Karl say "Let the good times roll"?

Those guys are going to be swimming in stock. They're so over it.

Shiv hates ATN since it's basically Fox News and Matsson said he'll make it cheaper, Ikea it to death.

Greg is becoming more gringy and repulsive by the second. He used to be this sort of doe eyed comic relief. He’s boarding on unwatchable at this point.

My favorite thing about the DL Succession threads is the queen or queens who are just convinced that Marcia is going to play some pivotal role in the endgame. I imagine they picture her doing so while wearing a turban and armed with her throwing wine.

My favourite thing about you R92, is imagining the folds of fat straining against your caftan while you type cunt on DL and wonder where it all went wrong in your own life.

I like Marcia. I don't think she's Alexis. I do think in S1 she had potential to be a spanner in the works given her position on the trust in the event of Logan's death and that in S3 one of her conditions for returning in public was resolution of her position on the trust. In terms of the actress, the writing, and the casting, I think she's a very intriguing character and, given the kids aren't taking over in the end, could be a plot device to contribute to what will be a car crash of ambitions at the end.

I hope that's OK with you.

I'm impressed you have any imagination, R92. My favourite thing about you is imagining the rolls of fat straining her caftan, while she types cunt on DL to deny the frustrated lack of understanding about what went wrong in her actual life.

I like Marcia. I don't think she's Alexis. I do know she was to have two votes on the family trust in S1 and resolution of that was a condition of her return in S3. The writing and the casting make her an intriguing character. Classic less is more. My expectation is the show ends in a car crash of the kids' thwarted ambitions and it seems viable to me the Marcia character is positioned to be a part of making that happen. Otherwise, what was the point of her return? It was, as things stand, unnecessary.

I hope that's OK with you, R92.

Oh please this is not Dynasty. This is a straight bro show for straight bros. They flirt a little with a bisexual vibe with Tom and that’s it. It’s never happening. I’m

Kieran Culkin Kills It in this latest episode. I actually rewound the scene on the mountain three times. His Roman was on fire with grief and rage. And he wasn't wrong. I love Kieran. I'm realizing that he makes the show for me, and always has.

Wanna see if you can get it right on a third try, r93 / r94 ? Appears I struck a nerve. Also, I’m not fat, but enjoy your projection.

R96 and they originally wanted him to play Cousin Greg. That would’ve been such a waste.

R91 agree. I don’t think he had one scene last night that wasn’t embarrassing.

There was one part during the Quad scene where Tom walked away to go talk to Matsson and Greg was talking to shiv and Tom was looking at Greg and Greg was whispering something to Shiv and glancing at Tom, and I kind of got the feeling he was conspiring against tom a bit. It seemed shady. I think this new, slimy Greg would sell out his bff to get ahead. Nero and Sporus be damned!

R97, I'll just put you on ignore. People like you don't have anything to say I'm interested in hearing. I'd project I'm not alone in that.

And you did hit a nerve. The what a fucking asshole nerve. Proud of yourself?

I see Alexander Skarsgard's performance in "Godzilla v. Kong" in a whole new light, now that I've watched him here as Mattson.

I enjoyed the hell out of "Godzilla v. Kong".

Skarsgard's Mattson as so creepy, perverse and enjoying a reckless impunity because of his billions, that, it makes me appreciate the underrated skill of playing the conventional good-guy hero that is Nathan Lind in "G v. K".

Does that make sense?

I agree that the writers have been really vicious to Greg this season. I wonder if they stopped liking Nicholas Braun.

Greg really doesn't have much to do. Tom is his feeder source and Tom's too busy covering his ass. I guess to turn him into a vicious hanger on keeps him occupied.

Spending time with the Roys will corrupt you. Greg is now dark sided. Maybe ewan can shame it out of him.

I think Greg's only real purpose throughout the series was to be a useful idiot. But now no one has any particular use for him, so they've dropped him like a hot rock.

Roman's grief over Logan is interesting, particularly since he generally only treated Roman like some sort of beat dog. At least Kendall had a love/hate relationship & Shiv was daddy's girl (when it suited him). I would've expected he'd be the only character to show real grief for Logan.

Here is the Swedish translation from when they were busting on Greg.

Do we know what pills Roman was taking? My man needs some help pronto.

Shiv made some sort of devil's bargain with Mattson. She knows too much about him now. Watch their fireside scene closely.

You think his blood brick story was true? I’m undecided. He seems weird enough to do it, but idk. He seems like the type to test people.

I think it was true. The character wouldn't be that convincing an actor.

Mattson gives major bi/pan vibes. There weren't many women in his little corporate posse other than the woman he sent his blood to, but there were plenty of strapping Scandi hunks.

Yeah it seems true to me.

Succession always maintains that people who get to to this level of success are damaged people in some way. This was showing that Mattson does have his own demons he battles in his relationship with women.

Also if you have ever done coke, you know that you are going to talk about yourself a lot while on coke. Mattson doesn't have that many women in his circle so a "cool, powerful" woman like Shiv is someone whose opinion he kinda wants to get on that matter. And he seems to kinda be attracted to her.

The interaction rings true to me.

Nah r112. He is meant to be a tech bro who is still not really comfortable around women.

Mattson seems like the type who would fuck anything with legs. Especially when doing the powder.

Mattson took over, opened up ATN and fired Tucker Carlson, at last! IKEA the shit out of it.

I'd fuck Mattson. And I'm sure plenty of Nordic men have.

R116 it’s her time now. She’s gotten the arms right.

Alxendar Skarsgard is hot, but I have zero interest in his character of Matsson. He's a psycho.

Y'all are forgetting also, that Mattson alluded to his own father's passing last episode - presumably by suicide.

MATTSON: Hey, thanks for coming out. Appreciate it. I know it's not idea.

ROMAN: Yeah, well....it's not like our dad died yesterday. It was a couple of days ago. So...

MATTSON: Well at least you didn't find him yourself, BMW still running. That shit can be....traumatic.

ROMAN: Yeah, sure. Sure.

[silence]

MATTSON: No sorries for Lukas?

What Roman is too preoccupied to piece together during this exchange, is that Lukas has already experienced the profound grief of his father dying, and that gives them a shared experience. Except in Mattson's case his father died by suicide. And he found his dad's dead body in a running car with, probably, his blood and brains everywhere. So he may not be seeing Kenny and Roman's daddy's death as this precious, unique, untimely or shocking event, compared to his experience of loss.

I thought it was a carbon monoxide suicide. Left the car running in a garage until he died.

That was a power play by Mattson r120, "No sorry for me?". Their Dad just died and he forced them to come to Norway, but he opens by trying to get them to apologize to him.

Immediately trying to boss them around and manipulate them.

Greg's dance moves, or tardive dyskinesia, were painful to watch.

He’s twisted.

^i meant Matsson, but Greg’s dance moves were twisted, too. He’s such a goober.

I think my favorite part of the episode was Karl snapping the band on his compression socks after Tom gave him a look. No pulmonary embolisms for this old man!

R121 Thank you, I wasn't sure how his dad died. That makes more sense if the car was running.

R122 Power play, okay I gotcha. A sort of big dick contest but for saddest dad death.

I can't always decode some of this shit on first pass. Confidence vs insecurity, power play vs momentary vulnerable info slip, etc.

“ I imagine they picture her doing so while wearing a turban and armed with her throwing wine.”

Throwing wine.

Ha!

They're still including Brian Cox in the opening credits. Is this something for the awards considerations, so that he can go for Lead Actor instead of Guest? Dick move, considering that it's being speculated that Kieran Culkin will be going for Lead consideration this awards season.

There are no official rules between lead versus supporting. Up to the actor and their camp where they want to submit.

The only rule is if you want to submit under guest actor, you have to be in less than half the episodes of the season.

So Brian Cox can choose to submit in Lead, Supporting, or Guest for this season.

R130. Fewer not less

Heh, fair enough r131.

But also you ask why he is in the credits, because I guarantee you he is still getting paid for every episode regardless of whether or not he appears.

"So Brian Cox can choose to submit in Lead, Supporting, or Guest for this season."

And he will lose in each category to whoever is nominated from "Beef".

I want Roman’s wardrobe from this past episode. Every piece.

Too bad I could only afford his socks.

I want Roman's haircut, R134. But I have wavy hair so it wouldn't work on me. But I love it.

Why do they keep putting Sarah Snook in turtle necks? They don’t do anyone any favors, much less husky, pregnant women.

Sarah Snook is a hard one to dress even most of the time, given her odd figure, but now that she's pregnant in real life (and in character, and they're trying to hide it so no one guesses it), it's even harder.

R136: To quote Shiv directly on the turtlenecks,

“Uhhhhh, yeah, I uhhhhh…yeah, you know.”

Hmm. Interesting. I guess DL wasn't far off in those threads from the earlier seasons that Roman could possibly be gay.

[quote] Variety: As we head into the finale, I have a question about your wife and kid we saw in the pilot episode. Where are they?

[quote] KC: Not his kid. Not his wife, either. It was in the pilot, and after it was picked up, it was his girlfriend, and she had a child. I’m wearing my real wedding band in the episode. I was excited about the idea of having a kid, and the kid was like 7 or 8. It was a little disappointing, but I think the idea was that it would just give them more freedom to play with the character.

[quote] KC: They had mentioned to me, even before we shot the pilot, about questioning what Roman’s sexuality is — and we don’t know what it is. But it put something in my brain, and I was like, “OK, but I’m married and have kids?” They were toying with the idea that she’s aware that you have sort of hangups sexually when it comes to monogamy, and might be more fluid, but we don’t know what that is yet.

I love it - big dick contest for the saddest death.

That's our show.

R132 I read an interview with him about the lunch with Jesse Armstrong, where, privately, Armstrong broke the news. Cox said his first or second question was: Well am I getting paid for the whole season? LOL. Fucking right!

I find hot, fucked up, testosteroned out young "str8" brahs to be the HOTTEST. Christ, God help me. And what Skarsgård is doing here is EXACTLY up Roman's ally. When he removed his sweat shirt, boyyyyyeeeee! He knew exactly what he was doin' for our man Romulus.

And Roman situating himself so he could get a full view of that casual fuckin' bro-piss? COME ONNNNN!

God really effed me over by making me so turned on by that shizz.

Matsson offered $192/share in a 50/50 cash and stock split to buy all of Waystar.

Kendall was offered just north of $2b ($2,015,708,009) for ~12.9m (12,906,663) shares of Waystar at $156.20/share in season 3, episode 7, "Too Much Birthday."

Assuming that both Siobhan and Roman have about as much company stock as Kendall, each sibling is looking to pocket nearly $2.5b total in the sale -- half of that in cash and half of that in equivalent stock in the new company.

Matsson told Shiv the words she always wanted to hear "You're like your father." I think she came.

"So Sarah, what's going on with you and your costume designer this season?"

"Oh! Well? We're...fucked. It's a disaster. I broke his heart, he broke mine. And we lost our footing."

Actually, I think her stylist is doing a great job not making her look very fat.

R138 and then she hits you with the *squint* /*head tilt*/ *smirk*

The classic Shiv trifecta

R146 au contraire. I actually think her stylist is doing a poor job on that front. They aren’t even putting her in the correct brassiere half the time. There are no lines, no grace, no shapes, no layers, just nothing but silk/linen blend suits with no form.

If I was trying to distract from her girth, I would play with color a more. She’s strawberry blonde, do you understand the fun you can have with color on her, the drama with the correct jewel tones? Or even deep auburn or even a cool wine tone against her hair and eyes? I would love to see more punch in her palette, though I do understand she needs to look corporate. But she can look corporate *with* sophistication — she’s missing that.

“She’s strawberry blonde, do you understand the fun you can have with color on her, the drama with the correct jewel tones?”

Mary!

Next episode will be the one when Marcia strikes. They won’t see it coming.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS SHOW INTO DYNASTY, R150!!!! MARCIA IS NOT ALEXIS!!!

This is the dress that she’s wearing in season 3, episode 8 at her mothers wedding.

I was holding my breath waiting for it to explode at the seams, especially when she kneeled down to comfort Kendall after he just told Shiv and Roman that he “killed a kid” at Shiv’s wedding. That fucking dress is tight. Those hips! Wow.

That was in season 3, episode 9.

These Shiv/Snook posts have me cracking up.

Anyway, all signs have pointed to Roman and Jeryd Mencken hooking up. I hope we get one glimpse of it onscreen.

Might there be a possible suicide attempt from Rome? He’s got those pills, he’s sad about dad, pissed at Mattson and that deal, and he said he ‘was dead’ last episode.

My boy needs some help.

Gerri!

Where did we leave off with Menken? (I haven’t seen all of season three). I’m guessing no one will be happy to see him?

So, bro shit, brah shit... ya, that culture, ok. But going over to sit on the wall as Mattson was pissing isn't normal, right? Pervy under any storyline.

Yeah we haven't talked about Roman's guilty look when Shiv confronted him about Mencken openly coordinating with ATN and how even Logan wouldn't have crossed that line r154.

This show has been very straight, but I hoping we are getting some male/male antics this season. It wouldn't be sex, but something akin to the Roman/Gerri antics would be appreciated.

Shiv hates him, Roman likes him, Kendall tried to play it neutral is where we left off r156.

I guess I need to rewatch the episode. I'm blanking on these Roman pills I keep hearing about. Did he have them in his little Nordic cabin at the beginning?

Yes, R160, while he was in the bathroom, on the phone with Kendall.

R157 PURE sex

The point was that when Matsson unexpectedly takes a piss in the open front of other corporate types he's negotiating with, it's a huge power gesture because he's unsettling them. (Matsson is the absolute King of Cheap Mind-Fucks, like Miles Drentell from "thirtysomething.") But this time, since he had already pulled that trick with Roman before, Roman was having none of it, and he was demonstrating to Matsson by sitting in full view of his pissing that he is no longer intimidated by him at all.

I'm pretty certain no homoerotic energy is meant by the writers to exist between the two of them. Roman and Menken are a different story, however.

Ooh, is Menken closeted? Might there be a little Roman action? I’m for that.

Roman has a weird thing about making deals in toilets (Menken, Mattson -- twice now, and that guy he wanted to buy that soccer team with)

R163 unfortunately, I think you're right. But a girl can dream, can't she?

God help me, when the cast made that appearance on Stephen Colbert's show to plug season 3, I though Sarah Snook had just given birth.

[quote]This show has been very straight, but I hoping we are getting some male/male antics this season. It wouldn't be sex, but something akin to the Roman/Gerri antics would be appreciated.

I don't know why they won't give us a drunken Tom/Greg makeout session; the fans want it, the cast/crew want it, and I'm guessing the actors would be totally down.

R167 She looks good there.

Greg looks better with a beard. It hides the weak chin.

We might all be disappointed and it goes nowhere, but Helen Keller could watch that episode last season and see the purposeful homoeroticsm between Roman and Mencken r164.

[quote]I don't know why they won't give us a drunken Tom/Greg makeout session; the fans want it, the cast/crew want it, and I'm guessing the actors would be totally down.

I'd even settle for a dream sequence, just for the laugh.

If there was ever going to be a Tom and Greg make out session, the time has passed.

Tom’s getting back with shiv.

And Greg…should go for Marcia, that’d be something.

He's been trying, R172! Lord knows he's been trying.

Weird and awkward ep which is probably what the writers intended. Mattson and his crew are all smug assholes. For supposedly savvy business people, they sure do make a lot of emotion-based decisions.

Glad Hugo's on the kill list. Can't stand looking at his neck. He, like Greg, is 'visually aggravating' to me. Also agree that Greg is becoming an unpleasant creep.

Gerri's wearing too many gold accessories.

R161: what kind of pills? I’m blanking on them as well.

They *should* be boner pills so he can finally get it up in front of a woman and give Gerri the plowing she needs.

For those of us thinking that the writers don't know what to do with Greg this season, they are actually nailing it. He made that Faustian pact with the devil last season, when Tom did his spiel about are you willing to sell your soul, and Greg was like "who needs a soul, soul, booooo!" So this is soulless Greg. Except he's an extreme poseur. The reason he's so grating and annoying is precisely because he sucks at being soulless, his falseness pings to high heaven, and the dissonance is obnoxious.

That's an interesting theory, R176 and makes sense. He's actually got nothing to do since his overlord is occupied only with scrambling to save his ass. Tom's awkwardness in Norway was hilarious, if slightly painful to watch.

Slightly? Damn, I nearly crawled under my couch to escape the embarrassment of the ‘his shorts had creases’ exchange with Matsson.

^ And his shoes! Didn't Shiv say something about how his white shoes were blinding everyone?

I remember Shiv/Tom going to dinner at Roman's and them ragging on Tom's suits. Seasons later, he still hasn't learned how the rich dress.

They are definitely mean to Tom, but…he is there to serve!

So I guess his purpose is punching bag.

Willa is changing since the marriage. Not sure whether she's just becoming a bitch because she can or if she's kind of becoming Marcia... totally covering her man. But it's noticeable. There's a hard edge now.

Wills SHOULD change. She doesn’t have to feel awkward now— and good for her.

Willa

^Actually Willa *is* Marcia 2.0. In S1, Marcia seemed like kind of monster - keeping the kids away from their father, defending his boorish behavior and considering anyone who went against Roman a traitor, but looking at Willa, you can kind of see why: she changed from being paid to fuck him to being paid to protect him, no matter what he did or if he even deserved protecting. She was good at that job and Willa's good at her job too.

**against Logan, not Roman**

“ In S1, Marcia seemed like kind of monster - keeping the kids away from their father”

Well the bastard tried to get his daughter to jerk him off. I told her so, but Shiv fucked around and found out.

I want in the very last episode for Marcia to reappear finally with shoulder pads and a turban, and have it out with Lady Caroline over caviar and burnt champagne.

"WRONG! It was Beirut, 'of all places'!"

I think Kendall is cosplaying who he thinks he should be (Kendall as Logan) and how he should act. Big crash coming.

They really do all come off like kids play acting. It’s embarrassing.

It's almost like they got to where they are off nepotism rather than their own talent.

I’m sorry but Shiv is huge, as in Moto-Moto huge. She is clearly overeating, there cannot be a debate because it’s so obvious.

She’s not huge, she’s a:

Leave Shiv alone.

You mean Shiv “Moto Moto” Roy?

Shiv is rich, bitch!

She doesn’t need to starve herself.

For me, the only satisfying ending is for them all to die in a mid-air collision.

R195 for real. She gets that dick just fine! I hope she gets ASkars, too.

(How long into a pregnancy can a woman have sex? Like 7 months? Is there even a limit? Idk. But I think Tom will at least get back in there in the next couple episodes)

R197, women can have sec the whole time, though I would imagine many don’t because it’s uncomfortable or they are higher risk.

I see Tom as guy that likes a woman with some junk in the trunk. Whatever the case, I kind of like that Snook isn't model perfect. The women on the show that wield real power are less than model perfect while the classic beauties seem to be disposable

Why should we be surprised Tom likes women with big asses? it's been a cultural obsession for the last decade at least, probably the last 30 years. Just ask the womanly asses troll.

It says a lot how much people have judged Sarah Snook just because she isn't model thin. Really a condemnation of how Hollywood only casts women who are stick thin so somehow her body type becomes a subject of conversation

It's not so much that Sarah Snook isn't model thin. I just think the costume designer for Succession doesn't dress her in the best outfits that accentuate her curvaceous figure.

Christina Hendricks, who played Joan in Mad Men, wasn't model-thin either, but at least the show always gave her outfits that complimented her shape.

The lady from Ted Lasso is pretty roomy through the hips as well and she always looks fantastic. They dress to her body shape and it works.

Maybe shiv is a mess this year because her life is in shambles and she’s not 100% giving a crap and the costume designer took note.

Or has she always worn I’ll fitting clothes?

I don't think having a baby mean s "her life is in shambles." Some women just gain quite a bit of weight when they're pregnant. Not everyone can be Jane Seymour/Kate Middleton.

If this is such a huge and overwhelming problem for you that you cannot enjoy the show any more, I heartily recommend you stop watching and cower in your room.

I'd like a Stewy v. Mattson scene.

I'd like a Stewy in Mattson scene.

R204 I meant with her possible divorce and Tom betraying her and her being on the outs with her dad- where we started season 4. A baby isn’t the only issue going on with her.

I don’t care what she looks like, I think her being a little sloppy is fine with what’s going on in her life.

There are an abundance of American women the same size as Sarah Snook. People are just used to seeing anorexic hollywood actresses.

She looks fine. She’s got a good amount of barnacle meat on her. Thick and chewy.

Aside from the (fake) dick pic, has there been any nudity on this show?

"good amount of barnacle meat .... Thick and chewy."

Stewy's nipples!

Stewy [italic]in[/italic] Mattson? Stewy [italic]screams[/italic] bossy bottom.

[quote]Christina Hendricks, who played Joan in Mad Men, wasn't model-thin either, but at least the show always gave her outfits that complimented her shape.

As I recall she endued most favoured piñata status on DL for much of that time.

WHET?

Bossy bottom? Who, ME?

Christ, that fucking earlobe flick was so bizarre.

Fucking Tom!

She loved it. Big turn on. She likes spelunker Tom standing up for himself.

Did anyone else find it odd that Greg was invited to the Norway meeting?

Greg has been a very amusing character... the interplay between him and Tom is hilarious. But he's such an obvious doofus, there's no reason for him to be in any of the rooms and meetings we've seen him, the whole show. It's entertainment, but he'd be put out to pasture in southern New Jersey in real life...

Greg was invited but he was on the other plane.

[QUOTE] And he will lose in each category to whoever is nominated from "Beef".

BEEF is a limited series. SUCCESSION won’t be competing against it at the Emmys.

Speaking of BEEF, I could see Steven Yeun beating Evan Peters for Best Actor.

Anyone else wondering what Roman wrote on the "is it underlined or crossed-out" letter about Greg? I feel like that's going to be something.

It’ll end up being meaningless- like Greg!

I knew there’d be a video of some sort to see more Brian Cox.

Damn ASkars is hot. I love the black outfit and bare feet.

If shiv doesn’t fuck Matsson she’s a dummy.

Shiv's pregnant with raging hormones and "bitey" is foreplay.

Roman and Kendall are well on their way to fucking everything up.

Blah, I was hoping Tom and shiv would really divorce. This flirty/bitey scene is painful to watch.

Shiv needs to take the helm.

Kendall is losing it.

Statler and Waldorf!

I knew Peter and Karl reminded me of another duo.

Living Plus. I'd rather blow my money on a short time at Brando's island resort.

Kendall has very obviously never stopped using. He is high as a fucking kite.

Sell it all to Matsson.

I hope HBO finds another series for Alexander Skarsgard.

Tom looks pretty good in that short sleeve blue polo. He’s handsome.

Tom has gay voice and I can't consider him serious with Shiv. BUT she is pregnant with his child and needs to tell him.

I don't understand a thing I just saw. I want to use the words piece of shit.

I thought a riptide was going to drown Kendall.

Kendall’s going to end up in the nut house

Kendall at the end of the episode:

Karl knows a thing or two about a thing or two…

Love it.

What are the outcomes? The Swede drops the deal and everyone sees Living Plus is just assisted living? Then the whole empire crumbles? Unless Kendall is actually a great salesman with a vision and not just a douche.

I had a flashback when Tom put his feet up on Shiv's desk. A coworker of mine once did that and I told him verbatim to "get your fucking feet off my desk!"

[quote] I hope HBO finds another series for Alexander Skarsgard.

I agree. He's been killing it this season. Who knew he was so good at playing a billionaire douchebag so well?

Skarsgard has made Lukas Matsson seem like a fully-formed human being. He's very good with very limited screen time.

One of the things I like about Succession is that there are so many great supporting characters in the series, you can easily see them being in their own spinoffs.

Hasn’t the deal already been approved by the board? This story is starting to not make sense.

I liked the bitey scene r228, it was such a weird little thing that makes it feel real and specific, people do weird things. And I personally enjoy how they are writing the new Shiv and Tom dynamic when they are actually being honest and confrontational with one another. They are finally past the bullshit and dealing with the real person so it's fresh.

I agree Aleksander Skarsgard has been killing it in this role. And the actor who plays Karl has really come alive this season as well.

This wasn't my favorite episode of the season, but I get what they are doing. And it was good they ended by Kendall actually doing a good job marketing that absurd fucking product, Living+, god I could sadly see Disney launching something like that.

I'm really going to miss the theme music.

We are only doing around 24 hours of time passing in each episode r249. The deal was just floated last episode.

No, the deal was approved by the board last week.

Of course it wasn't r253. You would have to get to lawyers to actually hammer out the legal agreement, schedule a meeting of the full board and have them vote to accept it.

I don't know how that studio head of Waystar thought that Roman would not detect that bit of shade she threw at him in the meeting: "I'm sure you are where you are for a very good reason." Roman immediately caught it and fired her ass!

I hope Kieran Culkin and Aleksander Skarsgard walk away with Emmys for this season.

Look at lil Cousin Greg getting Roy'ed-Rage on the video editor!

Greg is such a sleaze and I hate his face.

For R251. She nails it. It’s perfection, as is Nicholas Britell’s score.

Roman needs to listen to Shiv more. Kendall is walking down a long and crooked winding road.

This season has so far proven how unsuited Roman is when it comes to being an executive IMO. Kendall and Shiv show competencies in some areas at least in spite of their shortcomings, but Roman is a toddler.

Kendall is in a manic phase. This is what he does. The comedown is going to be brutal. And this time, when he crashes, he's gonna be bringing everyone else down with him.

Roman is hanging by a thread right now.

Thank you for the piano clip, R259. I'm thoroughly enchanted. She's amazing.

I'm rooting for Roman to get it together. His father's death seemed to effect him the most.

I like that Tom is on equal footing with Shiv now. Huge arc from S1 E2 where she referred to him as her assistant at the hospital. He's so sexy when he's not being a suck up

I’ve got your dick in my hand, and you’ve got mine in yours.

Yeah Tom and shiv are finally becoming the slimy, awful, power couple they could’ve been all along. He’s not taking her shit anymore. First the earlobe flick and now winning at ‘bitey’

Next episode he should go ham on Matsson or Nate and punch them in their face. Shiv obviously likes Tom’s new backbone.

I wonder what the other party guests were thinking when they saw Shiv Roy playing biting games in public. That’d get a big wtf from me.

I'm still feeling nauseated after Tom's barnacle meat comment last week. That was nasty.

What was Lukas’s tweet that he deleted? Anyone know the translation/reference?

My favorite line this week was when roman told Gerri:

Roman: “I need you to believe I’m as good as my dad.”

Gerri: “Say it or believe it?”

And he fired her and she still went to the launch like nothing happened. Lol. She’s not going anywhere.

R269 Doderick Macht Frei

Arbeit macht frei was the slogan above the gates of Auschwitz, so he was kind of kidding like the Living plus was a concentration camp for old people. Doderick is the mascot for Waystar parks.

Kendall was floating in the water this time not sinking. Progress!

Maybe there’s hope for him yet.

Thanks r271

The house that Tom and shiv hooked up in belonged to the Roys, right? They didn’t fuck in someone else’s bedroom?

This season is starting to feel too long.

At 20 weeks, Shiv would be visibly pregnant. Tom for sure would have noticed when they hooked up.

She’s not yet 20 weeks. The obgyn said her next appt is at 20 weeks. She’s probably 16 weeks, which is right at the tail end of people not noticing. Most (obviously not all) pregnant women show at least a little at 4 months.

Tom may have noticed she’s a little chubbier, but didn’t say anything to rock the boat. Yet. But really, he was probably so happy to get back with her that he may not have thought pregnancy.

Agreed R276. And at this point, the balls on Shiv not to tell Tom she’s pregnant with his baby is just plain shitty. Da fuck already.

Roman sure misses Logan. He needs a good cry sesh. He should schedule some time like shiv does.

My complaints:

- it’s too cartoonish - Jerri is apparently not telling anyone she has been fired twice - The deal is another insufferable drawn out storyline

I don’t think the deal is going to go through.

Tom’s lucky shiv didn’t lock that conference room door for her scheduled cry. Sounded like Greg was showing him some potential women to hook up with that night. Instead he gets to get back with his wife. No more Disgusting Brothers. Rip.

Kendall did better than I thought he was going to do at the launch. I was worried he’d lose his shit. Even the Matsson tweet he handled well.

Wouldn't Caroline (the kids' horrible mother) have come out to NYC immediately after Logan died to involve herself in all this?

I feel like too much of this show this season has been annoying pumped-up business jargon for Kendall and Roman to jabber at each other. A little of that goes a long way, and I feel like they went overboard this season.

Roman has always been an immature, wise-ass cocksucker, but he crossed the line tonight. He’s grieving and lashing out. Tom/ MacFadyen pings. I cringe watching his scenes with Shiv.

It was interesting that shiv let Tom listen in on the call with Matsson in her office. I thought she would’ve wanted to keep that private for now, but I guess she’s maybe bringing Tom in to help her get whatever it is she wants to accomplish.

If I can remember correctly all Matsson said was that he didn’t want the real estate and for her to see if she could stop Kendall’s launch, right? Idk if it was a secret, but unless she trusts Tom 100%, I wouldn’t let him know what I was doing.

The deal CAN’T go through—at least not before the series ends in a few more days. So it’s almost certain to blow up.

Maybe Roman loses his shit and pushes Matsson off the balcony.

This was Shivs episode!!!!!! Brilliantly played!!!!! Her brothers don't include her and treat her like shit. Payback is a bitch boys.

Shiv was trained by Logan Roy. Shiv is doing a "Logan" on them all. BRAVA!!!!!

Outstanding writing. I laughed through the whole episode. Being in healthcare for 35 years I knew so many people like what the writers wrote. Delicious.

Sarah Snook........masterclass.

The movie banner on the outside of Waystar Studios was for an animation called ‘Morons’.

It’s the little details I love.

Alexander Skarsgård has had another series with HBO. TRUE BLOOD

“ The deal CAN’T go through—at least not before the series ends in a few more days.”

Since 2008, it only takes a weekend for a massive company to enter the abyss, fail, and be taken over “before Asian markets open Monday”.

So great to see David Rasche shine this season. Just looked him up and I can’t believe he’s 78 years old, he looks terrific. Reboot Sledge Hammer!

Skarsgard earns my highest compliment- his Mattson has generated in me the same reaction I have to some of the Christopher Walken's characters.

And that I don't know if his super white teeth are dentures with a slight overbite adds even more creepiness.

Nick Offerman, so far, has been considered to have already won the Emmy playing Bill in "The Last of Us", (Guest Star Appearance, or whatever they call that category) but man, Skarsgard's Mattson is right in there, too.

There is no way that family wouldn't own some property(ies) in LA r274. We saw the siblings hanging out in a LA area house in the premiere of this season.

Yup, I know they have a house, but wasn’t sure that was it. It must’ve been a party for their launch, but only shiv and Tom were there, so it didn’t really feel like one. Ken, Roman, and Greg were working on Kendall’s speech and weren’t there. It just didn’t feel like much.

I wasn’t a fan of the Tom/Shiv weird flirty stuff. Hopefully we’re past that now.

This wasn’t my favorite episode. I could’ve done without 85% of it. Oh well, I’m looking forward to Matsson gatecrashing the party next week. In that weird lumpy brown gold jacket.

Episode 8 Logan’s funeral?

I'm going to predict that the sale goes through and the board dumps the Roy kids. They have their billions and it's over. What I took from the most recent episode is that Kendal and Roman don't want to let go. They still think they have to prove to their dead father that they can run his business better than he could. With the added element of Roman grieving over the loss of his father and wanting to hang on to something that was a huge part of who his father was. They are both destructive, and incompetent, and they talk a lot of jargon, but it's all superficial, because when it comes to business, they really don't "get it." Shiv is looking at the two of them still fucking her over, still telling her bullshit lies, saying they'll "take care of her" and she knows she has to make her own way. She'll end up with Mattson, because there's no way she will trust Kendal and Roman to partner with her in an investment group. They may talk about starting their own thing, but without the stability that Frank, Karl, and Gerri provided they will self destruct. We're actually watching that happen in this episode. They are on the downward trajectory. This show is excellent satire BTW. The show should end with the two Roy brothers walking off into the sunset babbling about their future plans, and Greg, the loser chasing after them after Mattson dumps him.

Agree r298. I got that, I'm watching filler, vibe too.

The kinks - sexual, emotional and mental -of Shiv and Tom's relationship are interesting. The screw-ups of Roman and Kendall are moving the plot along, although Kendall salvaged that presentation.

It's fun, too, to wonder if the writers were intending to have me believe, for a moment or two, that Kendall decided, when he was on that beach, to go out like Norman at the end of a "A Star is Born" ( 1953) , or, accidentally drown, well played. That's exactly what went through my head until I saw the preview for next week.

Shiv (with Tom at her side) may end up as head of ATN/Pierce under Mattson.

R301 This is my latest theory as well. Shiv and Tom will be the new power couple and they'll end up with everything. Roman and Kendall are going to implode.

If Shiv is back with Tom, Mattson will lose interest I think, part of his interest in her is flirtatious. Remember one of the first questions he asked her during their meeting was where she was with her husband.

I need to find an opportunity to tell someone they are a weak monarch during a dangerous interregnum.

Roman needed Gerri to beat his ass.

Shiv would be foolish to sleep with Matsson if they’re going to be doing business together, but he’s so hot! And he’s a flirty little shit. She’s enjoying their little game so far.

In an earlier preview (possibly for next week’s episode) Shiv, Mattson, Greg, and Tom are talking and Lukas asks Shiv (or maybe Tom)- “Nice place, who gets it in the divorce?” Smirk smirk. He’s such a shit stirrer. I think him being like that is what’s going to push Shiv and Tom together for good.

The Annabeth Gish character - do most female Hollywood executives, agents etc wear a uniform of expensive black suits?

Doesn't Kathleen Kennedy wear black suits a lot? I felt like I was supposed to be reminded of Kathleen Kennedy.

[quote]Roman wanted Gerri to beat his ass.

Romans needs her to fuck him very hard; he'd be calmer and more balanced if she took control of him, maybe with a ball gag on him.

Lukas Matsson- the Striking Viking!

Shiv sticks the knife in, Roaming is a lost soul, Ken Doll is shallow and has a drug problem, and Con Nerd is a cardboard cut out. I want them all to die in a Greece fire at a 5 star hotel

The spin-off needs to be Shiv v Gerri.

Mattson flirting with Shiv is another, albeit very familiar, powerplay. I think he'd push it as far as he could get away with because where ever it ended up, consummated or not, he'd learn a lot about her and the company, in a way that balance sheets and interviews would never tell him. Because, in addition to everything else he is doing, the one thing that is critical is to always be gathering intel. Behaving provocatively, he then analyzes responses, watching the wheels turn and the gears shift. I think for Mattson, the world itself is one big tech lab.

R313 ... and very telling was how much he trusted Shiv's intel and opinions. When she called and told him to back off, he deleted the tweet.

One thing that's seems true about succession, none of us know how this is going to end. It's a soap opera, expected scenes, but I think 5-6 different endings are possible. However, I'm voting for the boys to crash and burn and Shiv to wind up running WayStar for Mattson. Tom may or may not make the cut, but it's all about Shiv.

I think Matsson will make out the best out of everyone.

(And Frank and Karl. Which one owned part of an island? He should retire there asap.)

R314 shiv and baby. That might throw a wrench in her plans. Unless she keeps Tom around to be a full time stay at home dad/nanny so she can be ceo.

So what’s left?

Party at Shiv house

Election Night

Board meeting

Saying goodbyes

The ending will involve a Gerri and Marcia road trip a la Thelma and Louise.

R317 funeral episode?

Yep, Logan's funeral is happening. I think I saw it would be episode 9, because that is when Lady Caroline is returning.

The poster above makes a good point re Shiv letting Tom back into her “secret” conversions with Mattson. That’s crazy! Tom JUST betrayed her!

Then again she’s repeating the pattern she had with Logan (in which Logan repeatedly betrayed Shiv.)

7- party at shiv’s

8-?

9- Logan’s funeral

10- election night

Somewhere in one of these eps, Greg rides a bike. Very important business.

Keep thinking of the opening credit shot of the four siblings as children followed by the girl (Shiv, I assume) all alone with her hand outstretched.

r315, Karl mentioned a couple episodes back that he and his brother-in-law are going in on a Greek island together.

I also remember back in S3, in the "Boar on the Floor" episode, Logan mocks Karl for his hedonistic lifestyle and Karl replies, "Yes, I am something of a libertine."

R323 I don’t watch the opening credits, but do they change each episode? I imagine each season got a new opening and did it reflect on what actually happened that season? That’d be cool if it did.

I think SHiv was finding her way, but I get a sense she is a lot more confident and a lot smarter in these final episodes. She smelled a rat with her brothers a lot faster that she would have a while ago, and she is probably studying Mattson as much as he is sniffing her out. My money is on her.

Kendall is such a mess. I don’t understand why he doesn’t take the money and run. Then he can go hatch his harebrained schemes to his heart’s content.

Surely by now he should have s little self-knowledge. He’s not cut out to be a business person and should find some other niche to occupy.

R321 I was thinking about it and maybe shiv just needed and wanted an ally. Do she and Tom have the same goal? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think shiv wants to sell all of Waystar to Matsson, take the money and buy Pierce. Did she still want to be a part of the new Matsson-run ATN? She wants to be CEO of that? Or be CEO of Pierce? Would Pierce be a part of GoJo? (She probably just said all this last night, but I forgot.)

And I believe Tom wants to stay as ATN chair. So maybe she let Tom into the private conversation so he’d be aware Kendall and Roman are trying to keep Waystar and that that must not happen. They need to sell and get paid. (Material Girl Tom Wambs wants that money!). And if the GoJo deal doesn’t go through, Tom might not have a job. Co-CEO’s ken and Roman don’t want him.

She might not trust him but I think they’re on the same side of this- sell to GoJo. Who would he betray her to now, anyway? They’re teammates for the moment.

Rude of him to put his feet on her desk, however. He’s feeling pretty big at the moment, but if anyone can cut him back down, it’s Shiv!

R327 there’s a Logan sized hole in his soul that he thinks he needs to fill by keeping what his dad created and running it better than he did. He’s such a messed up dude. I think any one of us would take the money and split and retire or do something that we actually enjoyed in life.

None of the kids are going to end up happy.

Look. Tom is not to be trusted. He is out for himself and he is an opportunist so he will fuck over Shiv and anyone else who gets in his way. Except maybe Greg who is Tom's bitch. And if you are looking for homoerotic content those to are serving it.

The kids have been rich their whole lives. They don't want to take the money and run. They didn't start working because they need money. They want to feel important, feel powerful, feel like they are as good as their Dad was.

I don’t think he will do that again. He’d fuck over Greg first now. Greg’s pointless.

Tom likes the new dynamic he has with Shiv and is going to try to make the marriage work.

And when she finally tells him she’s pregnant, he’ll do whatever she wants to be a part of it.

If there ever was a Greg and Tom, it’s over.

Roman and Kendall should do the Thelma and Louise bit. Right off the Grand Canyon.

The people on Reddit discussing Succession are surprisingly stupid. My expectations were not met.

R251, thank you! The score is the only constant for me this season... it's a little off the usual patch while preserving the best of the past. Brittell is a wonderful composer. I listen to the music frequently in the car.

Marcia will keep Greg.

Last night I posted I don't understand a thing I just saw, which is untrue. I got it. But I still feel it was a very weak episode. Everything feels rushed and crammed and given short shrift, and this show has never been short on ADD. If it didn't have the momentum of having killed Logan and known as end of days, I am not sure the critics would be as gushy. Last week was amazing, Logan's death was amazing, but it just isn't landing for me as much as I hoped. Maybe I expect too much. Even on the board, here, there seems to be a lot of confusion about what's happening or where things stand. This election is supposed to be such a big deal and are we even sure why? (Of course it's that the presidential candidate poses such a threat... oughtn't they to sort of tap into that to build the stakes? We haven't been seen the guy in sex episodes.) I'm not impressed compared to the previous three seasons.

R336 as a fuckboy? As long as he doesn’t talk…

I do not want that fly buzzing in my face!

[quote]I'm not impressed compared to the previous three seasons

Rose-colored glasses. Many people, including commenters on this board where not happy with Season 3. So many complaints about the show spinning wheels, those were kinda forgotten because people loved the finale.

On a week by week basis this season has had a way more positive reception.

I’m calling it- Greg and Kerry hookup after the funeral.

She’ll be grieving and in need of some string cheese that she can take apart

R340, interesting. First time I've watched it in real time. I came quite late so saw 1, 2 and 3 one after the other. I'm surprised how much I miss Logan's presence.

Those are my defects with this season:

Another big deal that may crumble/come to pass. Why should we care anymore?

The election is alluded to but all we know is that Connor is a candidate and Mencken is a rightwing conservative that has ANTN on speed dial

Roman should film himself getting railed by Mencken and then release the video to tank his chances of winning the election.

[quote]Roman should film himself getting railed by Mencken and then release the video to tank his chances of winning the election.

That wouldn't bother repigs one bit.

I don't know...I wouldn't be surprised if Tom screwed her over again & she aborted the baby. Admittedly, that's kind of "Days of Our Lives" storyline, but that's the kind of scorched earth thing Shiv would do, severing the tie with Tom forever, just like she's going to torch her brothers. All three of them are definitely going to flame out, but I'm not so sure Mattson comes out on top either. I kind of picture wreckage all around: the lives of the kids, George & Karl's retirement, Conor's delusions (only Willa's stuck with him now) while the only that makes out like a bandit is Marcia.

I

R345 I've thought about Shiv... her position in life, her ambitions, her not telling Tom she's preggers, her drinking wine now...

... a woman like her, in her position, might well be expected to abort. Will the show be willing to just show her making choices for her body and her future like most women of her demographic: is it controversial for a woman like Shive to get an abortion on a TV show?

I get so confused by the times we live in. 30 years ago? Of course she'd get an abortion. Now? They'd lock her up in a nunnery?

As much as I enjoy this show, it doesn’t hold up to say House of Cards, or Breaking Bad, at least for me. That may be because this feels more character driven. I can’t quite articulate why it’s lacking to me, but of course, it is extremely well done and respectable.

R347, I’d put it in the same league as Breaking Bad and Mad Men. These excellent series are infinitely better than House of Cards.

Shiv and Tom get a happy ending with her running Pierce.

Roman is miserable running ATN.

Kendall is miserable running Living+.

I love this show, but I don't consider it in the same league as Better Call Saul, The Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad. That's okay.

Where does Living Plus fall related to Waystar? Is it a brand new thing Kendall introduced right as they are selling to GoJo?

Maybe it could be a thing for Kendall to run since Matsson doesn’t want it. He would take ATN but leave Living Plus for the Roys.

House of Cards was good the first two seasons, but it quickly became camp in the later season (Kevin Spacey's Frank Underwood pushing the Secretary of State down a flight of stairs was something you'd expect from Y&R or Dynasty). It certainly doesn't compare to the original BBC series starring the late and incomparable Ian Richardson.

I think what will make Succession memorable in the years to come is Brian Cox's performance. Logan Roy will go down as one of the greatest anti-heroes in television history, up there with Tony Soprano and Walter White. I knew this show was great from this scene in season 1. Something about those Shakespearean-trained actors from the UK makes you tremble when they go nuclear!

R345 I don’t know if there’s time for Tom to screw Shiv over anymore. There’s four days left and I think they’re on the same page about GoJo Waystar takeover things, so I’m not sure anything will arise that. I totally believe he’s a dick and would if it benefitted him, but idk if something will be introduced now.

I think they’ll end the show back together. Happyish.

I hope she doesn’t have the baby. She doesn’t want it, but maybe when her mom comes for the funeral she’ll say something demeaning again and shiv will keep it out of spite. That sounds like something she’d do.

Maybe the baby is Cousin Greg’s.

I totally agree that House of Cards fell apart, but even in that, I enjoyed it more than Succession. I loved Frank.

R352, thank you for posting that, it does remind me why I fell in love with this show to begin with. I have asked on DL many times…..what is the exact difference in training between say The Royal Academy versus method acting? I understand what method is, but I would love to watch how British actors are training as I’ve never seen it to fully understand why they’re soooo much better.

R352 how did Frank get unfired?

I’d be shitting myself if Brian cox yelled at me like that. Damn, lol.

What platform is House of Cards on? HBO?

House of Cards is on Netflix. But I very much agree with r352 that it was only good the first two seasons, definitely comes nowhere near my list of best TV dramas of all time.

Is Living+ supposed to be some type of Celebration, Florida?

Logan Roy was the first tv character to scare the shit out of me since Tony Soprano.

[quote] It certainly doesn't compare to the original BBC series starring the late and incomparable Ian Richardson.

You might well think that. I couldn’t possibly comment.

I still think of Ian Richardson's brilliant and subtle looks toward the camera. The American version was pretty cheesy in comparison.

They just threw in Living+ as a storyline for Kendall. It’s never been mentioned before.

Nobody is going to 'win'. Even the mighty Logan died on a toilet. This show is a slicker version of Veep except the writers of Veep had affection for their characters. The writers of Succession present all of the characters as distasteful, amoral buffoons. They clearly despise the characters. Viewers get so caught up in the machinations of the characters they forget that the plot is merely a device to showcase the banal evil of the corporate oligarchy via the characters' despicability.

It reminds me of how Tony Soprano was glorified by so many viewers even though David Chase made it so blatantly obvious Tony was psychopath to the point of contemptuousness.

Mattson pursuing Shiv or whatever that is, is simply a divide and conquer move. He’s got someone estranged and undervalued by her brothers and great inside access.

So what has to be done to finalize the GoJo deal? Just a Waystar board vote? How many board members are there? If they approve it, then it really doesn’t matter what Kendall and Roman want, right? All of Waystar will be sold to GoJo. For a really good price it seems.

I think the board needs to and has yet to approve the new and improved deal. The CEO(s) typically make a recommenation to the board, having negotiated it. I was party to two take overs and I don't think the board had a say in the dealmaking. The CEO recommends to the Board, the Board recommends to shareholders and there's a vote of shareholders, 50% +1. There's a process that follows where shareholders have until a certain date to tender their shares under the terms of the acquisition.

Since it’s been a storyline every season, they will make the board vote as unnecessarily complicated as possible.

Alright, so sine the CEOs don’t like the deal, they might not bring it to the board yet?

The board of directors of Waystar is Ewan (is he coming back this season, just thought about that) , Frank, Stewy, Sandy, Sandi, Roman, Kendall, Shiv as the characters we know. And the there were a couple other random characters from the board vote episode Paul, Dewi and Datu that who knows if the writers remember exist.

Though r367 brings up a good point. A corporate acquisition would go to a shareholders vote.

Also, Mattson can go direct to the board if the co-CEOs won't advance the offer. Directors have a legal responsibility to act in the best interests of shareholders. People invest in company to make money. If the shares are worth about $140 now and Mattson is offering $180 or $190 - that has to be put to shareholders or regulatory and litigation hell breaks loose. The board doesn't really have a choice.

I think how this ends is with all three kids brought down by scandal and the company sold. Roman the sex pest. Ken the junkie bipolar. Shiv the manipulator of witnesses (cruises.) There's enough people with ammunition out there.

Something is going to happen to Roman. He looks like he is ready to explode.. He is reckless and angry and grieving and I get a feeling he's gonna explode in a big way.

I agree R371 about the kids going down. It's just weird that it all has to happen in the next four episodes. Roman, Kendall and Shiv all have to meet their makers in the next four episodes. Plus Tom, and whatever is happening with the Elders, plus Cousin Greg. And then there's Stewy and Sandi and Marcia...

And the election stuff!!

Connor and Willa

And did they fire Syd?

And is Matsson going to fuck everyone?

How are they gonna wrap this shit up??

As a boost to my Shiv scandal theory... Nate's back next week. It was his witness she talked into refusing to testify.

The thing that gets me is that it’s all going down in four days. That’s kind of ridiculous. There isn’t going to be any sort of resolution in four days. I wish the season had a little breathing room. Like if it lasted two or three months.

I don’t think the viewers are getting any final answers about anyone’s fate (unless someone dies. That’s pretty final.)

I cannot accept that outcome r375. If this turns into an ending where we get Sopranoed, I will be furious! I don’t want the Chase ending.

Armstrong said in an interview he'd deliver better tan a cut to black stunt. I'm getting more skeptical with each passing "day."

The final shot will probably be of the three kids (sorry Connor) together but each in their own world mentally. Thinking about their own issues. Physically together, but elsewhere. And none look particularly happy.

[quote]Nobody is going to 'win'.Even the mighty Logan died on a toilet.

Agree completely r364. I've said this before, the thesis of the show from what I can see is how unchecked capitalism destroys people. I don't see any happy endings on the table, these characters don't even seem capable of being happy.

And along those lines, R379, think about last night's episode, with Kendall pushing the numbers into absurdity. He's in a manic phase, high on power and "possibilities" but it's all delusion. It's all EGO. Hubris.

And hubris cometh before the fall. He is so fucked.

I’d like a flash forward with the siblings working at Walmart.

The scene between Karl and Kendall in the hallway just before Kendall gives his presentation is Emmy worthy. Love the way Karl smacked Kendall down with a healthy dose of reality.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here’s the scene. Carl (David Rasche) is terrific.

What was up with that snippet of video Logan recorded in front of the green screen that Roman was listening to in the limousine at the very end of the episode?!!! “Roman has micro dick, and is always wrong”. WTF. That obviously pained Roman and took a toll.

I wondered the same thing r384. Was that an outtake?

R385 R384 It was an "edited" version, cut and pasted from words Logan had recorded in the session. It was done (we presume) by the sound engineer that was humiliated earlier in the episode. Presume it was "anonymously" posted on social media.

I thought it was classic Roman-creepiness that he seemed to get a thrill out of it. What a sick dork.

I hear you R386. I’d like to know who authorized that particular Logan edit. Who put the editor in the control room up to it. Was it Greg? Was it Kendall? I suspect Kendall. As far as Roman, I know he gets off on being degraded, but I think this video snippet of Logan beating him down, really hurt him.

Wait a minute R386. I reread your post and overlook that yes, the video edit may have been done by the sound engineer who was berated by Greg earlier in the episode. I think you’re right. Pure insanity.

I'm telling you I can see it. I could write it. I predict they will go crazy for a couple episodes doing everything they can to undermine the sale of the company. They will also stab one another in the back or cut side deals to undermine one another and get caught in lies. Kendal and Roman and Shiv will all be double dealing, and double crossing one another even as they reassure one another they are trustworthy. So after all the backstabbing, etc. the board sees what total fuck ups they are, and goes ahead and makes the deal with Mattson, and the stockholders approve. And in spite of all their bullshit and all their mess, the three kids walk off into the sunset with billions . And as we leave them, they're talking about forming their own company and doing deals together because they know they can "trust" one another. An Alternative is that Shiv runs a game on her brothers and helps Mattson seal the deal with the board and shareholders and ends up as head of some division for him. Or maybe she makes a deal with Mattson for TOm, and decides to go home and have her baby and strike off on her own.

I thought the Logan video edit at the end was Kendall goofing on Roman, with Roman doing his thing of taking a joke and making it serious and weird. The editor wouldn’t have done it out of spite at Roman—it was Greg who was nasty to him.

Roman: I'm not crazy myself about dying, so...

Kendall: I know, right? It's bullshit.

I thought Roman listening to the message repeatedly was a comfort thing. One last insult from dear old dad. Despite Logan being a nasty piece of work, Roman loves and misses him and wants him back. So he’s listening to the video to feel close to him or whatever.

He’s not doing super well at the moment.

Totally agree with r392

Roman was physically and mentally abused by his dad. He needs treatment. Mess. All of his decisions are poor.

Living+ sounds like an HIV support group.

I wish Armstrong had made the kids even mildly competent so each one could potentially have a shot at the big job. Logan was right, these are not serious people.

R392, totally agree. In fucked up Roman world - and he's Kendall, without the addictions - that was comforting to him. It's what he knows. It was more than a good line when Caroline said "your father never saw anything he loved that he didn't want to kick it, just to see if it came back."

I remember the last Emmys when Armstrong in his remarks made a dig about Prince Charles becoming King. The Queen had died days before. Cox said, not so sotto voce: Keep it royalist, keep it royalist. And Cox is no monarchist. Anyway, point is, Armstrong is, I'd guess politically opposed to the idea of inherited succession, so the kids are toast. The question is how epic is their downfall going to be. I don't see Succession's version of Moldavia, it will probably be fairly muted, with piano music.

I read alot into the addition in the opening of that small kid driving the car. I'm sure Kendall's accident comes back to haunt him. I don't think criminally by any stretch, but his reputation can't survive that. So that's Kendall eliminated. Pretty sure Gerri brings Roman down with the dick pics and the same reputation damage. Not sure what does Shiv in. Maybe the deal just goes through and that's the kids' comeuppance... they now have to live life without the trap in which they've lived their whole lives.

Marcia knows where the bodies are buried. I think next episode is when she makes her move to bring the empire down.

R235: HBO is like the mob. At this point (True Blood, Big Little Lies, Succession), Alexander Skarsgard is a made man. There’s a 100% chance he’ll appear in another HBO series.

No Connor at all this episode. To be honest his character has been pretty pointless the whole way through this show. He really is just a McGuffin, a foil for the other three. Greg is kinda similar too.

I do really wonder (and worry) that the show will have anything close to a satisfying ending. Maybe they all die in a terrorist attack at the Waystar Board meeting. Who the fuck knows!?

Good luck to ya, buddy!

Perhaps Shiv tells Matsson about Kendall’s accident and Matsson leaks it to the press. Kendall would know Shiv did it. She’d be dead to him. Dead! But she’d get Kendall out as co-ceo and the GoJo deal would move ahead.

The last scene should be the sibs looking miserable together at the election night party with REM’s ‘Shiny, Happy People’ playing in the background. I’d laugh.

Since this show is based in King Lear, in the end the of the play my kids die and the husbands inherit everything. Tom seems weak but he could survive and I think Gerri may end up running things. She’s been fired twice but somehow hasn’t turned in her paperwork.

Also in the opening credits their is an app called StarGo so I think the merger goes through. The board would likely get rid of the kids since the deal is so lucrative.

Could be. Dump the kids. Keep Tom, Gerri, and Karolina. Not sure about Shiv, since she’s aligned with Matsson as of now, but I think Roman and Kendall will be out. Greg will probably stay around. He’s like a cockroach.

This ranking of Succession characters is pretty much perfect.

I don’t get the obsession with Roman. I was thinking of my own personal Top 3 character ranking and it goes:

3. Kendall 2. Carl 1. Tom

Ranking Roman over Logan is like putting Paulie over Tony. Makes no sense to me.

It took me a while to warm up to Roman because Kieran Culkin's performance in the earlier seasons annoyed the fuck out of me (he had the same swarmy, wisecracking personality as Robert Downey, Jr). But he finally feels like a fully-rounded character instead of something straight out of a sitcom. Still, he doesn't deserve to be number one on the list.

Tom would be my #1. I don’t like him the best, but he is such an interesting and freaking weird character. Equal parts capable and baffoon. Physically attractive to me but sometimes repulsive. I don’t know if I’m rooting for him or not.

Matthew McFadyen plays him perfectly. Absolutely deserved his Emmy.

I wouldn’t be mad if Kieran won this year for Lead Actor

Greg should be at the very bottom of any character rankings.

Harriet Walter as the kids' mother should be near the top, despite her limited number of appearances.

There was a s cene. You know the scene, when Kendal was depressed and desperate to talk to someone, and he was sitting in his mother's kitchen late at night, feeling all confessional, and really desperate and said he needed to talk to her, and she persuaded him to wait until the next morning, and then she left the next morning before he woke up? Damn that scene really stayed with me. Those kids never really had a chance.

I don't think the Guardian does a good job of ranking the characters, because there aren't any criteria. But it did a great job of describing them.

I think Stewy should have ranked higher because he allows his humanity to function when he can, while being cold eyed ruthless at all times. A good character.

Greg should have been ten in the top ten. He's a jester and his high water mark was "Who needs a soul anyway?" since then he's been suspended in mid-air. I chalk it up to the writing not being as good as they've tricked everybody into thinking it is.

Kendall should have been higher because he's become an object of empathy and pity, rather than scorn and tedium, even as he's stuck in a loop of playing Charlie Brown to the top job's football

Agree with Tom. Probably the best constructed, most complicated, fully rounded of all the unblinking opportunists. They beautifully allowed him to sum himself up in the last episode and I think he's kind of rocking since he lost his fear of the family (if not of Mattson.) Matthew McFadyen is a STAH!

Love that Gerri ranked highly because she's a great character, also well rounded, if subtle.

Roman is another full developed character now, except he's a mess, Kendall without the drugs, and we need to see him fall because there's not a lot there other than performing for love and approval he'll never get.

I can't not have Logan as #1. Like Kendall, despite everything, you don't hate him, even as he repels you. His cruelty makes sense. Beautifully written, beautifully performed. His absence leaves a hole they're struggling to fill. I said to a friend today I think it will all make sense once it's all over, probably worth a binge from S4.1 to S4.10. I feel like we're watching three shows of multiple parts. I've been kind of critical of S4, obvious highs and lows to me and I would have expected it knocked out of the park every episode in the swan song. I think they're great at characters but less great at pacing and plotting. It is good they're going out now.

Finally, I save Alexis for last (kiiiiiiiiidding), but Marcia should have ranked higher. While circumstances prevented it, she was a fascinating character and people still talk about her here and over at Reddit. Something captured imaginations. In S1, whatever toughness she has (and there's plenty) she also seems to have genuine feelings for Logan and him for her. Were they meant to be the Macbeths? (Are Tom and Shiv going forward, for that matter?) Between the writing, the casting and the performance to my mind they somehow created the greatest character that almost was. I don't think she's going to upset the apple cart at the last minute but I'm hoping she delivers something in the last couple episodes on the basis she was gone so they really didn't need to bring the character back for S4. She could have stayed in Milan shopping and grieving. Don't know what she does, but hopes it's something. I'm a sucker for that character.

Enjoy my blog at shutthefuckupTLDR.com. xo

R412 That scene broke my fucking heart. I felt devastated for Kendall. Gaslit and angry. Abandoned.

Roman, as we have seen many times, is a literal masochist, so it did not surprise me at all he would find comfort in that reedited audio clip of his dad's voice castigating him.

[quote] Since this show is based in King Lear,

There are distinct similarities, but it's really not based on King Lear.

KL is portrayed from the title character's POV mostly, and this show is much more from the children's POV.

And the children are neither completely evil like Goneril and Regan, nor completely good like Cordelia.

Roman is so full of anger and despair and pain I fear for him. I don't think that character is going to make it. Clearly the kids all have a back story, Connor Roman Kendal Shiv all have a story. Caroline and Logan. Logan and his brother.. Does anyone think there may be a prequel at some point. Obviously different actors, but I am curious to know how they became the characters they were in Succession.

I’m watching the HBO Succession Podcast and the general thinking is that Shiv is the smart one and will come out if this better than her brothers. That isn’t as far fetched when you follow the arc of the season.

It's hard to day if Shiv is smarter than her siblings because she's done so many stupid things, like spill the beans she was the chosen successor when they were all at the Pierces' (and even stupider, believing her father had really meant it when he told her she was the chosen successor, when all he did her whole life was manipulate her and her brothers). her marriage to Tom also makes me think she's not that bright: who would marry Tom, who is such a fool?

My hope is that none of them wins and they all have to cash out, because I could not imagine any of them being able to keep the corporation running. Roman is too reactive and thinks things through poorly (like the firings last Sunday night); Kendall is always unrealistic about what other people are willing to do for him; Shiv is too easily hoodwinked.

There’s still time for Shiv to be a bonehead.

She married Tom because she wanted someone she could keep in his place, which was beneath her. She wanted a yes man doormat who would never betray her no matter how badly she treated him. That worked out well for her.

But she seems to be digging the new stand-up-for-himself Tom so who knows.

I watched this video last night where this therapist diagnoses the characters, e.g. Logan is a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies, etc. Interestingly, she thinks Shiv is the most dangerous but her femininity hides the depths of her depravity.

Made me wonder if 'Shiv' is not only a nickname but also an intentional descriptor.

I think Roman is gonna off himself.

And take Mencken with him.

It's going downhill for Roman and Ken. Proving they could never be Number 1. Looking slightly better for Shiv with or without Tom (he needs her a lot more than the other way around). Nobody gives a fuck about Connor.

And yes, with parents like Logan and Caroline is it any wonder they are so emotionally fucked up?

BRING BACK RHEA JARRELL.

R421, I thought it was Succession gospel that Shiv’s name is indeed on purpose. If that is true, why not other characters too? KenDoll. Shib/Shiv. Roman/Romulus is a (possible) reference to the first king of Rome….the ancient Romulus murders his own brother. Con-er, as in con artist. From a website on the name Logan:

[quote]Does Logan Mean “Little Warrior”? Logan comes from the Gaelic word “lag” or “lagan,” which means hollow. However, the Gaelic word for warrior is “laoch,” so it's unsurprising some might think Logan is a derivative.

All this to say, it could still be Roman who wins this round without either sibling, or maybe Roman will out KenDoll on his manslaughter a lá Chappaquiddic , “killing” his brother too.

Where is Cyd on this list?? She's amazing!!

R398 you “read alot”? But not “a lot”. I’m embarrassed for you. Abit.

Has the actress who plays Cyd had some sort of stroke or does she just garble her words naturally?

R429, that is Elaine May - who is an absolute legend. She always has spoken somewhat like that, including when transformed comedy in the 60 and when she won a Tony in 2019. She has not had a stroke, at least one that has been publicly disclosed.

It is not Elaine May, it's Jeannie Berlin.

Omg, it’s her daughter! I’ve seen Elaine onstage multiple times, and I genuinely thought that was her.

More of this, please.

Jeannie Berlin is one of my favorite actresses. She never disappoints, including on SUCCESSION. She was also really good in Amazon Prime’s HUNTERS and HBO’s THE NIGHT OF.

The more I think about, the more I’m convinced the Tom and Shiv post-hookup scene was my favorite moment of the series. The dialogue and performances were just perfect.

I'm intrigued by the suggestion someone made up thread that Kendall or Roman push Mattson out a high-rise window.

How ever it happens, I don't dismiss the possibility that either Kendal or Roman and Mattson end up dead.

I think Roman is going to have some sort of explosion before the end. Not sure if he’ll take it out on himself or someone else. But those feelings aren’t going to stay inside.

I think Roman and Kendall are both primed to implode, Roman in rage, Kendall in the usual mess of self-harm. Don't know about Shiv. She's... I can't define her fuckedupedness. I don't think she gets away clean.

Culkin plays Roman to perfection. In every scene he's in, he becomes the focal point.

Frank, Karl, Gerri, and Karolina are doing the real heavy lifting.

The kids and Greg are all pretty fungible characters.

Tom is somewhere in the middle.

Culkin really needs to win the Emmy. But he (likely) will be up against not only Cox and Strong, but Pedro Pascal and Bob Odenkirk. It’s Odenkirk’s last chance to finally win one for Breaking Bad, and Pedro’s a hot ticket, so who knows…I think Culkin has done something so much more original and watchable than any of those other actors.

R441 Me too. I think Kieran is doing some next-level channeling of some serious fucking heavy shit for his character this season. (I know -- MARY!)

[quote] It’s Odenkirk’s last chance to finally win one for Breaking Bad

I think you mean Better Call Saul. But I agree. It’s also Brian Cox’s last chance to win for Succession, too. The competition will be pretty stiff.

Oh yes, Better Call Saul. My mistake. I could never get into it or Breaking Bad.

I cannot imagine putting Culkin against Cox against Odenkirk!!! They are outstanding, but I do agree wholeheartedly that Culkin gave us something new. Right before Ken was going on stage, after Roman heard him out, he lowers his eyes for quite some time as he’s speaking to Ken. So subtle and low-key, but it expressed everything that he couldn’t look in Ken’s eyes for a little bit. I have never paid much attention to that, but usually actors are looking at each other when speaking dialogue. He made a lot of brave choices in how he played this last episode (number 6, yes)? Only four more to go????

Succession is one of those shows that make me wish there was a “Best Ensemble” Emmy.

I’m especially hoping David Rasche is nominated (and wins) Best Supporting Actor for his elevated role of Carl. If there’s no category fraud this year, Cox, MacFadyen, Strong and Culkin should have to compete for Best Actor.

It seems that in this season Kendal/Jeremy Strong is supporting and Roman is lead. MacFayden is supporting too. I wouldn't nominate Cox for this season.

I would nominate Cox in Supporting just for his "I love you but you are not serious people" monologue in the karaoke lounge.

Rasche is killing it this season.

Cox may not have enough time to qualify for lead or even supporting. He may only qualify as guest appearance.

"Culkin, who plays the sarcastic and jokey Roman on HBO’s hit drama series, confirms to Variety exclusively he will be submitted for the lead drama actor category at this year’s Primetime Emmy Awards. This marks a category switch for the actor, who previously submitted in the supporting categories for the three previous seasons."

Hell yes!

From episode 7. They should play Bitey.

^I mean Nate and Lukas. Get Shiv out of there

I would bite(y) with Nate before Lukas. Nate is more my type.

Episode 7 is the one with Shiv and Tom’s balcony fight! I’ve been waiting for this since the season 4 trailer dropped.

Wonder if she’ll tell him she’s pregnant after she calls him a snake 🐍

I guess she hasn’t forgive him completely. Last episode made it seem like they were a team, but maybe this fight will be the last hurdle they have to clear before they’re back together 100%. (Minus the pesky pregnancy thing…)

I imagine their fight starts off with Tom asking shiv if they’re together again or if she’s gonna smash Nate or Matsson.

Whatever this show is aiming for, whatever narrative crescendo it is supposed to be building towards, whatever high water mark this cast is striving to establish, whatever the hell this is supposed to be, it is landing extremely wide of the mark.

Why are we pretending this is a great television show? This is a very mediocre television show.

One of them may fall off the balcony during the fight, like Kristin did on "Dallas" or Mark Jennings did on "Dynasty"!

In an interview from before the season started, Jesse Armstrong said episode 8 was the most shocking. I’m not certain he was serious, but he could’ve been!

I can’t wait to see what it is: Gerri goes public with Roman’s dick pics as harassment and he ODs on pills but doesn’t die (coma?). Tom is so distraught over another fight with shiv when he thought they were getting back together he fucks Greg? Logan’s will is read and he left everything to Kerry and their unborn kid? Greg gets hit by a car while riding his Citibike and dies? Shiv and Matsson leak Kendall’s car accident/waiter death to the press? There’s so many possibilities!

Also, the finale is 90 minutes long.

How about this: Shiv’s baby isn’t Tom’s- it’s Karl’s.

That man knows a thing or two about a thing or two, know what I’m saying’?

"Why are we pretending this is a great television show? This is a very mediocre television show."

But it's a great soap!

It’s a hilarious satire. I put it up there with Trollope.

The writing staff is too ham handed for satire.

Agree. R462, it is terrific satire but I have to concede it really must be a bit ham handed as R463 says as the fact that it is satire is not apparent to most viewers. It's disturbing to see so many positing about the outcome of the show as if this is a drama. It's not. The plot doesn't matter. Every character that chooses to be a part of the 'circus' is a clown and we're meant to see circus and the clowns for what they are.

The problem is that this is the kind of writing aimed at the kind of viewers who went to movies in the 70s (e.g, Altman) or watched television in the 2000s (e.g, Peak HBO). You have to work a little bit and you have to bring something to the table.

No, R465. There is no missing puzzle piece here, and certainly not one that is unlocked by the viewer. I know that you want to be able to pat yourself on the back when this show ends for being part of some sort of self-referencing cultural and intellectual moment. But the joke is on you, because the show is a bloated, incoherent mess, and virtually everyone else sees that.

I don’t know how you make a show that is ostensibly about the Murdochs as bland and interesting as this show is, particularly at this moment in history, where the Murdochs are completely enmeshed into the meta-zeitgeist itself and sitting atop the news cycle, but whatever hat trick is that is, this show has accomplished it.

Nice try, r466. You try to dismiss the show because “everyone else sees” it’s a piece of crap. That consensus is a ridiculous invention to try to justify your outlier opinion. The show won the best drama Emmy for two of its three seasons. “Everyone else” does not consider this the mess that you do.

[quote]But the joke is on you, because the show is a bloated, incoherent mess, and virtually everyone else sees that.

"Virtually everyone" but television industry award voters, apparently.

What r467 said, except about awards, which are merely marketing nonsense; entertaining nonsense, but still.

Gee, r466, I guess my earthy comprehension is too base. You are way, way above us, and, therefore, able to see deeper and wider than us clueless groundlings.

Succession is, as r464 says, is "a terrific satire".

Its satire is so effective, it extends it to the audience; me sitting out here, poor and obscure. I may share Earth with billionaires, but we may as well be on different planets.

But, I just can't look away, and what does that say about me? That my only recourse is too merely observe and laugh at the foibles of the billionaires while they, with impunity, make decisions that dictate how we live now.

There is an absurdity to existence, the sense that we're all a cosmic joke and Succession conveys that very effectively.

Wow, those 2 brothers are completely losing it, and are increasingly showing their incompetence as episodes go by. Between Roman firing on a whim very senior, and potentially dangerous, senior staff members, to Kendall pissing off formidably experienced Frank and cooking the numbers to inflate Waystar's share price, which by the way is a criminal offence, I predict they will crash and burn very soon. Especially as Matsson won't play nice with these amateurs. Interesting to see which side Shiv is going to take in the inevitable showdown.

There’s nothing complicated about the writing here. It is a subset of what was done on Veep, which was also a subset.

The family members are very soapy. It is the same box as Dallas or Dynasty. It is just gift wrapped in HBO.

When you move away from the family members, the other characters who work for the company are written pretty realistically. The only exception was Gerri’s browbeating of Roman at his request. Otherwise, they are in just a straight up drama about work.

It is a good show, and the soap plot twists Keep it interesting. But it does not even aspire to be bad satire – much less good satire.

It is decent entertainment on a Sunday night. And that’s enough for me.

I missed the part about Kendall adjusting numbers last episode. What was he doing? What numbers?

Kendall is trying to get the share price high enough to make Mattson’s offer look like a lowball offer relative to market share value. This would compel the board to reject Mattson’s offer.

To that end, at the shareholder meeting he basically misrepresented a new venture the company is embarking upon (Living Plus.)

And to follow R473's point, since Frank and Karl and Gerri want to deal to go through, I don't expect them to sit quietly while Kendal fucks up this deal. We've talked a lot about what the 3 kids will be or might be up to in these final episodes, but I hope we will also see focus on the grown ups.

[quote]In an interview from before the season started, Jesse Armstrong said episode 8 was the most shocking. I’m not certain he was serious, but he could’ve been!

After reading an interview with the actor that plays Karl, I think Karl gets arrested in some sort of Epstein-style scandal, further throwing things into turmoil & leaving Frank as the last adult in the room

R471, that's basically how I view Succession. Some of the fans at Datalounge want to make the sure deeper than what it is so they can feel good about themselves as if it's some Shakespearean or Chaucerian morality tale. It's not. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with enjoying an entertaining melodrama with Brian Cox chewing up the screen when he goes ballistic and screams, "fuck off!"

*make the show

R475 oh shit! His Greek island he co owns with this brother in law is …Epstein like. That *would* be wild and shocking.

I hope it’s not true because I like Karl this year. Hope he’s not a perv.

Or owns an island for pervs

Agree with R471 as well.

I started watching about 6 weeks ago when it was clear this was the final series and have enjoyed it, but it has the same panto quality as Dallas/Dynasty, with some fancy camera angles and lots of swearing.

The female supporting characters are far more interesting than the main family. Holly Hunter has been the stand out of the show, and Cherry Jones did well. J Smith Cameron is great and loved Zoe Winters brief appearances as Crazy Kerry.

It's enjoyable but it's not something I'd want to watch again.

According to DL this show can only be Shakespeare or Dynasty -- because, also according to Datalounge, there is nothing in-between and nothing otherwise.

And I’d say the Murdoch family saga is somewhat soapy as well.

R466 Or, you know, and I'm just spitballing here, one could be into the series because they *gasp* enjoy watching it! I know that must be an off-the-wall, revolutionary concept for your brain to entertain, the idea of participating in something simply because one enjoys it, but do give it the old college try, won't you?

It was established in season 2, episode 3, "Hunting" -- which featured the boar on the floor sequence -- that Karl is a pervert. Logan needles him about whether his wife knows, and Karl says, "Well, she knows I am something of a libertine." Later, in season 3, episode 1, "Secession," after Karl volunteers to be interim CEO, Logan tells him, "Karl, if your hands are clean, it's only because your whorehouse does manicures."

Succession is not purely about the Murdochs. They have also seemed to draw a good deal of inspiration from the Redstone family drama.

The final scene is Shiv and Kerry working in Karl’s whorehouse, reenacting the double headed dildo scene that Jennifer Connelly had at the end of Requiem for a Dream.

Karl whoring around is fine, just no underage perviness, please. I think it’d be more that the other people involved were into that, and not Karl. But he’d be dragged into it by association.

Dude is definitely not a saint.

The pissing scene was basically this.

But in male lululemon

The thing about Succession is that the show was actually watchable at one point. There was a moment in time when R465 might have been proven correct about the quality of this show. The first two seasons, the ones that immediately preceded the pandemic, were more balanced, and occasionally, perhaps even compelling. The final episode of season two was a great episode of television. But the show's flaws were already on display even during those first two seasons.

In any event, since it returned from the pandemic, Succession has been complete and utter shit, and yes, everyone knows it. Now, whether everyone is prepared to admit that they know it is another matter entirely. But the vast majority of viewers can plainly discern that the people who run this show are making it up as they go along. I mean, give me a break. An entire roster of characters exists on this show for absolutely no purpose whatsoever. What's the point of the Stewy character? What happened to the lawyer played by Sanaa Lathan last season? What about Marcia? We spent a lot of time with Marcia the first couple of seasons! As this show winds down, does Marcia strike you as a character whose purpose was well known and integral to the show? She was a complete waste of time.

Meanwhile, the ridiculous, over the top improvisation by the actors seems to get worse with each episode. Culkin's ad libbing is not some kind of great art. It makes the entire operation look cheap, lazy and rudderless. This show spent a whole season focused on sexy role play between Roman and Gerry. Turns out that whole plot started as a joke between the actors during rehearsals. Wait, we spent a lot of time with those characters last season! Well, if you were looking for a payoff there, guess what, the joke is on you, because that storyline was just one of many contrivances that served no purpose whatsoever. It was promptly dropped once the show runners were done gorging on the empty calories.

So yes, R465, you are most likely going to die on this hill alone. Because I guarantee you that once this show ends in a couple weeks, it will be promptly forgotten by everyone besides you.

[quote]They have also seemed to draw a good deal of inspiration from the Redstone family drama.

"Inspiration" is not the word I would use.

[quote] You probably thought Mad Men was a great show, too. Look how that turned out.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

You hit it on the fucking nail. Most of the snooty Succession fans are no doubt the same arrogant Mad Men fanatics who equated the show to the works of Cassavetes and Altman.

R488, thread closed!!!! At times I struggled with liking this show, and you are affirming me, I sometimes allow hype to color my perspective.

Where did you read that about the Roman/Gerri romance being an inside joke? That *is* incredible, and it supports your argument. It’s a shame because I think if they had dealt with a few areas, just a few tweaks, a little tinkering, then it would truly rise to the top. Oh well. I wonder how many writers work on this, and if so, did the writers strike/tension play into earlier seasons and cause a lack of consistency and continuity? Based on what you said, it is easy to make the case that the fell short.

The provenance of the Roman-Gerry "storyline" (if you can call it that).

Those of you like r487 who are so incredibly threatened and upset by other people liking a television show are baffling.

It's just a TV show. Chill out.

[Quote] It’s just a TV show. Chill out.

Was Golden Girls just a tv show?!

Was Bewitched just a tv show?

Was Days of Our Lives just a tv show?

Was Better Call Saul just a tv show?

Was I Love Lucy just a tv show?

The answer is yes.

Yeah sure, R494. That’s what it is. We’re “threatened” by others enjoyment of a TV show. Makes sense.

But you know what makes more sense, though? The idea that you’re probably projecting your own insecurities onto others. Nobody cares that you like the show. We care that you insist on carrying on as though your enjoyment of the show is a thing that justifies looking down your nose at those of us whose opinion is more circumspect.

No one is threatened by your nonsense. Come off your high horse … or at least develop better taste in programming.

No, it’s totally normal to hatewatch an acclaimed show and attack people who like it.

You’re hysterical. Nobody is attacking you. Ridiculing you, perhaps. Come down off the cross.

"No, it’s totally normal to hatewatch an acclaimed show and attack people who like it."

on here, yes.

What's your actual fucking problem, R488 / R495? Why are you coming on a thread about a TV show you clearly despise and getting in everyone elses' bizniss, finger wagging like some frigid smartypants buzzkill? Surely you have friendships or hobbies you could channel all of your highly strung, pent up energy into, yes?

You should probably learn to read, R499. The answers to your questions are in this thread.

Getting pointed!

Turning!

New episode tonight, guys and gals!! Jesus, this has been a long week. Seems like we watched episode six a month ago.

I've been lusting over Kendall's sherpa lined jacket since episode five and have been searching for the brand. I finally found my answer and it was custom made. Disappointed!

He's wearing it again, torture me more why don't you.

The Swedes are a show within a show.

Anyone go over the balcony? Greg, Tom, Matsson?

Megan Draper did, R507! The greatest twist in TV history.

Did we see her fall past the Roy apartment this episode?

Someone spoil me. How did it end? Shiv fuck Matsson? Was Nate a player at all? Tom and Shiv split again? She tell him she’s pregnant?

I am so attracted to Ashley Zukerman. Always have been.

Nasty episode of nasty people. It was hard to follow.

The scene with Tom and Shiv …. it’s me and husband. And it blows over in a week.

Anyone else would split, of course.

Is next episode the funeral?

R512 It was hard to find anything positive about it except for Connor standing up for his wife to Roman.

What’d Roman say to Willa?

I absolutely loved this episode. Tom and Shiv on the balcony saying every horrible thing they've not only thought of about each other before (and not only that, but things they know would wound the other, like Shiv calling Tom "provincial" and "a hick") seemed so real to me.

I also liked:

1) When Shiv told Lukas the rumor about India, all his bravado from previous episodes completely collapsed--he became a completely different person for a moment before he recovered. I had not realized how much of his arrogance and nastiness had been an act before.

2) Greg's heartless firing of the ATN international operatives;

3) Ebba's broken-hearted betrayal of Lukas on the balcony when she's with Kendall and Roman;

4) Gerri telling Roman the time of day and his reaction to that;

5) Connor sticking with Willa (even though she clearly is manipulating him because she has no intention of moving to Oman), and Roman's horrible meltdown at that. One of the things I have loved about the show is how the other siblings consistently underestimate her because they have such a low opinion of Connor and think anyone who wants him must be an idiot--even though he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Tom is either dim or wanted to start a fight by giving Shiv a scorpion as a gift.

Shiv and Tom are perfect for each other.

Other unforgivable insult I loved: Tom telling Shiv she "obviously should never have children," because he knows how cold and horrible her mother is to her (and her father always played games with her).

But equally, her comment that his mother loves the idea of her more than she loves Tom must have wounded him just as much.

I also loved how it's becoming so clear NONE of the children are anywhere near their father's level of playing other people and are not good businesspeople: Nate humiliated Connor when the latter tried to dictate to him how to get the goods on Matsson (and made it really hurt by saying he was "not your dad"); Roman walked right into the terrible weak position he's in with Gerri by stupidly sending her the dick pics; and Shiv put far too much trust into Matsson's ability to win the negotiations and so got bitten because of it.

In the past I think Tom really would’ve cared if Siobhan called him a hick and parochial. He didn’t seem to in this episode.

I wonder if Ebba is helping Mattson set up the Roy siblings. Mattson volunteered the information about the blood to Shiv very quickly. Ebba dropped the India information just as quickly. And then so did Mattson. Now Kendall is going to try to take over Gojo based on all of this. Could be a trap.

No, he was devastated--you could tell. But he was most devastated that she was sleeping with matsson and that she was going to sell him down the river.

The weird thing about Shiv and Tom is they have so little respect for each other, and yet deep down they love each other even though they married each other for the wrong reasons.

[quote] I wonder if Ebba is helping Mattson set up the Roy siblings. Mattson volunteered the information about the blood to Shiv very quickly. Ebba dropped the India information just as quickly. And then so did Mattson. Now Kendall is going to try to take over Gojo based on all of this. Could be a trap.

Like Megan Draper, she could be a corporate spy secretly recording everything!

“I thought you were backwash at the bottom of the gene pool.”

I love it when Greg is insulted creatively.

LIKE Megan Draper? Perhaps Ebba IS Megan Draper! She was an actress, after all, and played those twins quite differently.

The only redeeming moment was Jerri telling off Roman.

What’s left? The election, the funeral, and the deal?

How did the shiv and Tom fight start? How did it end?

R528 How about you watch the episode and see for yourself?

[qiuote] How did the shiv and Tom fight start?

It started with Tom discovering at the party that Matsson intends to fire him as soon as he takes over Waystar-Royco, and that shiv knew too and that people were talking about it at the party with her.

[quote] How did it end?

They said completely unforgivable things to each other before they left the balcony and Tom tried to order everyone at the party to go home (no one paid him any attention):

TOM: "You can never be a mother yourself because you're emotionally unfit. Your only value in the world is because of who your family is.."

SHIV: "You're a hick from Nowheresville, and were never worthy of me. Your mother cares more about me than she does about you because I'm so famous and rich."

However, given how freakishly co-dependent and masochistic they continue to be, they could be back together next episode and it would not surprise me.

R529 can’t. But thanks for the advice!

Is Tom's fagginess written into the script or is it just the actor?

Only in New York!

Thanks r530. Yes, that’s harsh but not as definitively over as I thought it’d be. When Matsson screws her over she’ll go back to Tom.

And him saying the ‘you’ll never be a mother’ means she’ll have the baby for sure.

Kind of weird that she was so positive towards him last episode but knew he’d be fired. They’ll end up together.

Not a gripping episode.

R532 I don’t know, but I think it fits Tom perfectly. He’s so strange.

Matteson's vape-smoking, turtleneck-wearing, fit-fat, sort-of-obnoxious team member was hot in a sex-pig bear way.

[quote] Yes, that’s harsh but not as definitively over as I thought it’d be.

The worst part was when Tom told her she would be an unfit mother, because that's what Shiv's own mother (Lady Caroline) told her last season that completely freaked her out in the season finale.

I think what Shiv said about Tom's mom also really hit him very hard, because we know he's very close with his mother and yet has very low self-esteem and has always been obsessed with the finer things in life (which he probably learned from her because she's become a wealthy lawyer in the Twin Cities).

The set for the party was rather cheap-looking, yes?

So Mattson’s just another frsud.

He’s definitely the new “use Shiv then screw her over” Logan figure.

He even told her “that’s my girl” as she betrayed her brothers. (Of course they betrayed her first.)

This all feels very familiar.

I wonder if she makes Matsson call her Pinkie when they’re alone..

Who throws a party just before their father’s funeral?

I always read Tom as an obviously closeted gay guy who’s using Shiv.

It’s hard for me to take it seriously when they talk about fucking.

Fictional TV characters who are fictionally insensitive to things that most real people would be.

What an incredible episode. That scene on the balcony with Tom and Shiv will go down as one of the best of the series. Gerri has Roman’s balls in a vice and it was amazing to watch.

I know the season is only over a few days but it Shiv still pregnant? She hadn’t told Tom right?

I have a feeling Shiv will get an abortion and tell Tom about it.

Then again she’s feeling absolutely alone in the world, and that makes some women (unwisely) want to have a baby.

Mattson is the new Logan.

That’s why Kendall hates him so much.

I'm looking forward to seeing the hot Viking get bitched out by Waystar. His stream is potent, but he couldn't last forever.

Connor is just so clueless. Imagine picking the fucking desert that is Oman over my peaceful little country where nothing ever happens and which would allow him to jet off to a different European country every weekend. He and his side whore just have the worst instincts.

Yeah Gerri, you go girl! Squeeze Roman’s balls until he squeaks. Hundreds of millions of dollars!

Shiv will have the baby just to spite her mom and Tom. Like, see I can be a mother, fuck you.

But she’ll instantly regret it.

As many others have commented Mattson is the new Logan, but to add to that, if the kids want to stay relevant/close to the center of power, I predict that they'll have to be "Tom" types: they'll be allowed some stature, but be forced to do the worst work, while forever serving as Mattson's little lackeys.

HBO should give Alexander Skarsgard his own series as Matsson.

R552 That would be amazing! He's such a great character. I'd watch a Scandinavian-Succession style show about GoJo. So much weirdness with Ebba and the Viking stoner bear and Matsson's many dysfunctionalities coming into view.

Could the profoundly useless, clumsy and insufferable Greg be any more cringeworthy and unprofessional during his Zoom call to the terminated Waystar employees?

I find the election subplot a bit lazy/unrealistic. If it was really the night before the election and both public and internal polls showed Mencken well behind, it’s highly unlikely to statistically impossible that Connor dropping out would affect the results at all. Politicos would say the outcome is “baked in” at that point.

In fact there were a few moments last night where it felt like the seams were showing a bit. Implausible storytelling shortcuts, etc. Then again I thought the three previous eps were stone classics. And I did love the fight between Shiv and Tom. Felt like we’d been waiting the entire series for that.

[QUOTE] The set for the party was rather cheap-looking, yes?

Those rechargeable FLOS lamps that were on each table on the balcony at Tom and Shiv’s party are over $300 each. I have the exact same one (also in grey) on my foyer table. They’re really nice and have four levels of brightness.

I also spotted Ktribe lamps in other parts of their apartment, and the Poulsen artichoke lamps in their dining room are like 25 grand apiece.

Alan Ruck has adopted his wife's (Mireille Enos) left eye batting tic. It's hilarious.

I liked hearing Connor stand up for himself and Willa last night. Roman is such a little cunt.

It's well-known that American ambassadors to plum appointments -- London, Tokyo, Paris, Berlin, the Vatican, basically the whole OECD -- are dim bulbs who have no idea what they're doing and are only there because they gave money or otherwise helped the president get elected. Connor probably could've gotten appointed to Berlin if that's what he really wanted.

Created the new thread since this one will be closed soon.

R555 Here's how I read the politics of it: the polls had Mencken behind 4ish points... that's beyond usual statistical error, so he's going to lose the popular vote. But he was close enough in some states where Connor pulling out could shift the state... so possibly win the electoral college.

Lose the popular vote but win the electoral college. Hmmm. Sounds familiar.

Thank you, r561. You're too good to us.

Willa looked pretty last night.

It took me a long time to fully grok Connor's purpose in the show. Last night's episode made it clear. He was not involved in the business at all. He also chose a bride from the seeming "wrong side of the tracks." A former "escort." And they are turning out to have the strongest relationship on the show. Connor, and Willa, with her character arc, have come to have her represent "reality" vs. the ugly, soulless world Logan created and which the other three Roy siblings have evolved in. Which has all the trappings of wealth, success, power and "glory" but in actuality leave a person empty and lonely.

Connor has pie in the sky ideas, and spends money like a child. But he was never corrupted by Logan. And as such, he has retained an innocence that is allowing him, with Willa, to find true fulfillment outside of the dog-eat-dog world of shady business and fake friendships.

Willa is the symbolic "salt of the earth" that side eyes that entire family and sees through the farce. Somehow, those two are creating something real together. Sort of.

Kieran Culkin (as Roman) is always standing with his hips thrust forward and his hands on his hips, usually with a tight button down in white, puce, or gray.

All the dimissal of this show from the publicists for other shows is cracking me up. SUCCESSION is a brilliant show, and your petty knocks won't get your clients EMMY nods.

Roman Roy

[quote]All the dimissal of this show from the publicists for other shows is cracking me up. SUCCESSION is a brilliant show, and your petty knocks won't get your clients EMMY nods.

This site has maybe 350 active, paying subscribers, honey. And that is the maximum and yes, I have done the math. This site does not have the kind of influence you're suggesting it does. There are no publicists here. The show just sucks.

[quote]It's well-known that American ambassadors to plum appointments -- London, Tokyo, Paris, Berlin, the Vatican, basically the whole OECD -- are dim bulbs who have no idea what they're doing and are only there because they gave money or otherwise helped the president get elected.

Um, I resemble that remark!

R567, ITA. There are some posters on here who are overly invested in trying to make it seem like the show is not as good as it is.

Trying to collect your PR coins, ladies? It’s probably the publicist for like “Yellowstone” or something.

[QUOTE] There are no publicists here. The show just sucks.

Okay, honey, but why are you posting about a show you hate so much? Are you bored?

If any publicist is trying to influence public opinion by posting on DL, they're in the wrong job.

Actually, I am kind of bored. Which isn't to say I am not entirely correct. Have you finished your rewatch of Mad Men yet?

I’d like to fuck Roman’s fat ass.

I am hoping that they give the audience a direction for each major character at the end. If they just end it with nothing decided that would be so very disappointing.

Connor was right it was the night before the election, too late to pull out. Absentee ballots have already been cast, and a lot of those votinng may not realize he's out.

Roman does not have a fat ass. It’s actually rather small.

I want to see Tom smashing a bottle on someone’s face. Let’s go for Matsson.

This past episode was very underwhelming. I’m tired of scenes where Shiv and Tom prove how little regard they have for each other. I’m tired of restaurant scenes where nobody eats or drinks anything. I’m tired of the “will they or won’t they commit suicide” fake-outs.

I love the show, but this past episode was a complete waste. In terms of the storyline I guess all it did was prove Mattson is full of as much shit as the Roys.

If Tom and shiv really do stay apart/get divorced than that was the one good thing from this episode. But if they fucking get back together I’m going to let out the biggest disappointed sigh. Enough with the back and forth. Let the bad relationship die.

[quote]I always read Tom as an obviously closeted gay guy who’s using Shiv. It’s hard for me to take it seriously when they talk about fucking.

I wonder if he'll come out to Greg when the latter is eventually forced to fire him.

R580, I don’t think this episode was a waste of time. If any, I think it advanced the plot quite nicely. You can clearly see the Ken Ro’s circus starting to flounder, their incompetence catching up with them. From Gerri’s ominous threats she won’t go down quietly and will use the leverage she has over Roman (the dick pics), to Nate telling Ken that he’s not Logan, to Connor standing up for himself and telling Roman to get lost, to Shiv siding unequivocally with Matsson to save the only deal that makes sense… You can see more than a anytime before that they are not “serious people” like Logan said. And I don’t believe for a second the India leak was fortuitous. Matsson is a wolf and he’s playing dirty. I’m sure it’s one of his tricks.

Shiv and Tom's "Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf" moment was the highlight of what was otherwise a low value episode.

The only plot advancement was

- The revelation that GoJo may have inflated subscribers

- Jerri told Kendall her plans

Otherwise there was nothing new. It was over an hour of dialogue

^ told Roman

R583. I am also convinced that the India leak is a trap. It really does not make sense that Ebba would blurt it out like that. And also Matsson knew immediately what Shiv was talking about....

I would vote for Sarah Snook for the Emmy for that episode. It could easily have devolved into a Sopranos Whitecaps repeat, but she was very restrained. She could have copied Edie Falco but she did something new and that is impressive

I thought this episode was much better than the last.

Um yea, Sure okay.

So next episode is the election. I’m guessing Mencken wins and there’s a riot (as seen in the season 4 trailer). Roman was out and about in it, but I doubt if anything bad happened to him they would have that scene in the trailer. But something big is going to happen. Can’t wait!

[quote]I have a feeling Shiv will get an abortion and tell Tom about it.

Been there

Ebba and Mattson's relationship is giving Shiv and Tom's a run for its money in the kinky and abusive department.

In the scene where Roman tries to tell-off Connor and Willa, in the background Mattson and Ebba are laughing and touching each other, and that's after Mattson, Oskar and Greg humiliate her and she meets with Kendall and Roman out on the terrace.

Unless, it's all just a play-acting set-up by her and Mattson, but somehow that feels too outlandish in a very outlandish show.

Has it been established that Shiv is pregnant or has the script been coy on that point?

I loved Tom shutting down the party to go to bed. I do that, too.

Interesting thing about shiv’s pregnancy- when episode seven was filmed, no one knew they were going to have Shiv be pregnant. Jesse hadn’t written that yet. I don’t know what order they filmed the episodes in, but that would make sense as to why she hasn’t told Tom yet (or why he hasn’t noticed her stomach getting bigger, especially after all that sex) if she wasn’t pregnant in episodes 5, 6, or 7. It also makes sense why she has been drinking, too. The pregnancy storyline was a late addition.

Since it was an add on, that makes me think she’ll keep the kid. Otherwise, it is kind of unnecessary.

Here’s a tweet from the director of ep seven about it.

They made it so obvious the kids were having breakfast in the formal dining room at Jean-Georges, yet breakfast is only served in the adjacent, cheaper Nougatine. That's where Trump took Romney for his fuck-you photo op.

The scorpion Tom gave Shiv was a deeply insulting, evil gesture. I don't know what his aim is, but I did some research and it comes from some old fable, where a scorpion asks a frog to carry him on the frog's back to get across a pond. The frog is very reluctant to do it. "Won't you sting me if I get too close to you?" And the scorpion replies, "That's ridiculous. Why would I sting you? If I did that, both of us would drown nd I would never get across the pond. It is not in my interest to sting you." After some thought, the frog finally agrees to carry the scorpion on his back to get across the pond. Midway across, the scorpion stings the frog injecting his deadly venom and both the scorpion and the frog drown. Because a scorpion can't help being true to it's nature. It actually fits Tom and Shiv to a T. Except I have to wonder who is the scorpion? Both of them are capable of doing that, and both have already proven it, Tom, more so than Shiv. The basic point, IMO is that not only will they not get back together, but Tom is warning Shiv he will destroy her and himself rather than let her ruin him and triumph. It's pretty fatalistic of him. He's a very angry man. In general, I get a sense of menace building up. Lots of angry people in that room.

Thank you for that, R597! Very interesting!

R597 that tale was in The Crying Game as well. It’s a good one.

R561 made a thread four. Come join the discussion there!