Who Killed Robert Wone?

Excellent! I live in the DC area and I truly believe those queens got away with murder and Robert Wone was on the down lo and got caught up in some sick and deadly BDSM shit.

Was he an ornithologist?

Oh, I vaguely remember the thread about this case on DL.

Ooh, those queens are going to be quaking in their flip flops down in FL, if they're still down there. Isn't one of them a chiropractor? Will do wonders for his practice. Didn't the widow sue them? What became of it?

I've always found this case fascinating. It's comically open and shut, but yet these obviously deranged skanks are still walking around. WTAF!?

Is anyone else watching this? It’s quite well done.

Peacock? Well, shit. That’s not one of the five that I subscribe to.

I’m watching it and I agree that it’s very well done. Those bitches tortured and killed Robert Wone.

Hearing these retired cops and the prosecutor talk about the treasure trove they found of BDSM sex toys is quite something. And when they explain that Joe Price was the “sub” and the smaller blond guy was the “dom.”

Poor Robert.

Also loving these two DLers…

Didn’t one of them (Joe?) come on here years ago and make fun of the “Nelly Nancy Drews” posting about the murder?

[quote]Robert Wone was on the down lo

Wone was not a closet case. These sick fucks raped and murdered him.

I seriously doubt they all raped him together

Here's another fascinating story of a couple of Louisville queens who were partying with a third.

These bitches were smoking meth and someone went crazy and murdered the third guy. Then they broke his bones so that he would fit into a container and buried the body in their basement.

They pointed the finger at each other in their respective trials. One got ten years, and he's out now. The other mary will die in prison.

Although, the one that's incarcerated has a dating profile, so one of you lucky dataloungers may find love after all.

Wone posted all the time looking for play on DC Craigslist in 2006. He wore a catwoman-like mask in his pic. Sex gone bad, guys freaked, covered it up, spent $$$ on trial, got off thanks to Spag.

I’ve been expecting them to do this as a documentary - it’s such a bizarre case and ripe for the ‘Netflix treatment’ (though obviously this isn’t Netflix).

I reckon I’ll watch it when I can get access to it, though the case is pretty upsetting to think about.

[quote] Ooh, those queens are going to be quaking in their flip flops down in FL, if they're still down there. Isn't one of them a chiropractor? Will do wonders for his practice. Didn't the widow sue them? What became of it?

Dylan is a massage therapist.

[quote]Wone posted all the time looking for play on DC Craigslist in 2006. He wore a catwoman-like mask in his pic.

None of that is true.

I liked this documentary more than the podcast that was released on Audible a year or two ago.

Watched it yesterday. You never know who is living next door, or downstairs, for that matter.

The fact that they waited 30+ minutes to call 911 and all remained in the house after an "intruder" stabbed their friend to death says it all.

Here's a comprehensive write-up

I LIVE for Mrs. Karen Geisler. She’s the wife of one of Robert Wone’s friends, whose name I can’t recall. She wasn’t having it and throwing shade on those Swann Street queens from her first scene. Her whole attitude was ‘I don’t give a fuck what you say. Those bitches killed Robert’. 😂

Whenever this case gets talked about on true crime sites/subreddits, some (usually straight) obnoxious poly person claim that Price and his boytoys were "only accused because they were in a poly relationship."

The Peacock series lays everything out in a way that makes it quite difficult for anyone with a shred of sanity to sincerely argue that Wone went there for sex or that Price, Zaborsky and Ward were persecuted due to their sexual arrangements.

Even if you believe that Wone was secretly gay, every last thing his friends and wife said, and that investigators found, supports that he needed a place to stay for the night and only went with Price because Price replied before a female friend who was also asked.

Investigators were quite dumb to target Ward first as they tried to get the men to flip. He was in the driver's seat with Price and was not going to bend. Zaborsky was the one who could've helped them the most and he was almost like an afterthought to them.

R25 I haven't watched this yet (will this weekend), but I've been obsessed with this case for years and agree with everything you said.

So, I always say follow the $$$$$$.

How did they afford that bank of high priced scumm sucking defense lawyers. Then have the $$$$$$ for the civil suit? Think she wanted 20Mill., even if it was just10M. Joe was a lawyer, Dylan the Dom a 'massage therapist.' Where did all that money come from

I say: this was far more than a throuple. BDSM whore services?? Replete with their own whore house??

I watched it. Most telling was all the members of the 'community' only got on board with faux outrage when the press got vicious. Joe was a big mouth, straw boy for gay political stuff.

Wondered if the throuple murderers were clever & had a few more porn photos of well placed customers. Wondered if Judgey got spoken to by a few of rich BDSM customers. Wondered if all the local faux outrage was in case these customers might get outed.

I knew nothing about this case before watching (shameful, I know) and I was quite struck by how effective these 3 skanks were at planning out this horrific murder of poor, sweet, tiny Robert Wone. Who was the mastermind? Dylan in terms of the murder and then Joe in terms of the coverup? If Robert decided to come stay over at the last minute, was he just in the wrong place at the wrong time? Had they already planned this out for some twink and they figured out let's do him?

Was Victor not as involved? They seemed to suggest he screamed like a MARY when he saw what was going on.

But goddamn - the short amount of time they had to clean up the crime scene, clean up the body, and get their stories straight... unreal.

I really enjoyed the two lawyers discussing their strategies and the case (especially that defense attorney).

Poor Robert. How Joe could murder a longtime friend that brutally AND sexually assault him. Unbelievable.

What didn't make sense to me was the time — only 70 minutes from arrival to 911 call. This will sound creepy, but if some perv has a torture and snuff fantasy, wouldn't he plan it to last longer than just over an hour?

And: no sign of rape, but Robert's own semen was found in his ass? Weird, weird, weird.

My thoughts exactly r29!

How can they be so sure he has semen in his ass? Perhaps it was just ON his anus and when they penetrated his anus with the swab it took some semen along with it?

The lack of blood is so odd. And the short window to clean/stage the crime. How were they able to do that so quickly?

How was his own semen found? If he wasn't having sex with the other men, was he jerking off alone and rubbed his own cum on his butthole?

Could it have been precum he's used as lube to finger himself?

[quote]How was his own semen found?

Police ordered a rape kit because they believed he'd been injected with paralytic agents. (There were needle marks on his body that couldn't be explained and there was no indication he'd fought back while being repeatedly stabbed.) It didn't help that in Ward's possession were hundreds of BDSM implements, including an "e-stim" device that could have been used on Wone.

This was really well done so of course I came directly to DL to see if there were threads when it happened. There were! and they're all expired.

To echo r35, basically the theory is that Wone was forcibly brought to climax and his semen was then used as lube for some kind of anal.

I once lived a block away from the Swann Street house, not too long before the murder, and I followed the case on Datalounge which had a series of very active threads. I hope the series will make it across the Atlantic via some other streaming service.

The house sold in 2008 for $1.475M and again in 2011 for very nearly the same; it was offered for sale again in 2019 for $2.4M.

I think the guys killed him, obviously, but another weird thing is that Robert called them earlier that day to ask if he could crash at their place after working late.

Did they say "Yes" and then plan this extremely strange murder? And how did they dispose of all the blood in a 70-minute time frame?

If you showed me, with my shitty gaydar, photos of all four men and had me identify the gay one, I would have picked Robert in a trice. Did he come from a conservative Asian family that expected him to marry a woman?

It seemed there was more the filmmakers could have chosen to examine.

I wonder if Peacock is sort of planning some kind of later follow up.

If Wone had been killed a few years later the DL sleuths would've solved the crime, just like they solved the soft-butch sous-chef murder at the Donovan House in DC.

R39 Wone being a closet case and his death being a sex game gone wrong is a popular theory about the case. I thought that when it happened, but I don't anymore. As I said above, I'm pretty obsessed with this case, and the years since Wone was killed, nothing has ever come out (so to speak) that indicated that he was gay. Also, like someone else mentioned, Price wasn't the only person he called looking for a place to stay. He also asked a woman he knew, but Price got back to him first.

I

Was Butch Sous Chef involved?

Maybe the airing of this series will finally cause one to break, and he’ll rat on the others. Won’t didn’t deserve to die like that, poor guy.

Peacock is only $5 for a month. I’ve been watching this and binging 30 Rock again.

**Wone.

I'm so glad OP posted this, I'm on vacation but when I get home this Friday, I am watching this one first. I'm a former Dupont/Logan CIrcle guy. I was on the fringes of a few circles of friends that were made up of some fascinating characters - movers shakers/sociopaths/twinks looking for a meal ticket/drunks/n'er do wells/spiritual healers and maybe a spy or two. DC is one of those place that if you really know what is going on, you might be be at risk.

Hope this gets a good buzz & people start talking about it again. Joe & his Dom Dylan have c hanged their names. Unless they get extensive work done on those ugly mugs they will be fodder if this gets lots of spin.

If they are all camped out in Fla. bad move as well. Wouldn't De Santis love to nail them to a cross to cement his Mr. Decency Crown.

Can't believe I could possibly cheer on De Santis, but in this case I would..

Scum, the 3 of them are utter scum. I so hate that they are gay.

And that lawyer who saddled up & flapped his trap to get free advert. as the best defense lawyer in DC. There is a special place in hell for that scum bag, as well.

Did they move to Florida because of the wrongful death suit, like OJ Simpson did, to protect their assets?

Nope they settled with his out of court. She asked for $20 million to go to a charity in Robert's name. The refused to answer questions & took the fifth. So, the settled out of court. Its in the Peacock documentary.

Where id the get the money for the pricey scum bag lawyeres & the settlement.

Maybe the IRS needs to take a peek.

I was thinking the same thing r44. Guilty consciences have made criminals crack before.

A true crime writer on Reddit who goes by the handle of Cliff Truxton makes a convincing, if circumstantial, case for "Wone was closeted, and it was a sex game gone wrong." I'd be interested to know why those in this thread who initially believed that no longer think it was the case.

You don't have consensual sex with your nightguard in your mouth.

For anyone without Peacock for one reason or another (or you just wanna watch it without commercials), you can torrent this on RARBG.

His final words revealed at last:

“These gays—they’re trying to kill me.”

Is it true that Price had a "milking machine"?

Update on the suspects from 2016.

Sum Ting Wone

[quote] you can torrent this on RARBG.

And go to jail.

Girl, get a VPN.

Is it really true that a man can't orgasm unless he wants to?? I'm pretty sure you can stimulate a guy's penis manually and make him pop off just from the physical simulation. I mean they do it to cows/horses/etc.

R60, of course you can.

I figured as much but there was an idiot in the documentary saying it's not possible (implying that Robert must've been consenting).

Perhaps there was stuff left out of this documentary, but these attorneys are playing stupid. How did his own semen get into his rectum - duh, he masturbated. It was on the side of his genitals. It’s runs down into the crack of your ass.

I didn’t understand the big turning point for Robert’s wife and their friend - they found BDSM material and that was enough to make them think they killed him?

I personally think they had something to do with it but there was next to nothing proving that they did. I was wondering if his asking what time it was wasn’t to the operator but to one of the other guys in the room.

This entire thing may have had nothing to do with sex, in fact, nothing ended up pointing to sex, period. It sounds like a good story but where’s the evidence? I think the needle marks were probably from the EMTs.

Furthermore, this all happened in a little over 70 minutes?!

You’ve got lawyers involved in this, of course they’re going to act differently when it becomes apparently that they’re zeroing in on you.

How does a prosecutor’s team destroy an entire crime scene because they didn’t read the label on chemicals?

[quote] You don't have consensual sex with your nightguard in your mouth.

Or have sex period. How is having someone with a mouthguard in sexy?

I dunno. Maybe someone would get off on this but all this happened in 70 minutes and they got their stories straight?

Couldn’t they tell if you had forcible anal? Again, all this done in 70 mins and you clean the body, make incisions on the shirt, hide the real murder weapon, and on and on. It would be more believable if one of them got into a fight with him.

[quote] I wonder if Peacock is sort of planning some kind of later follow up.

Why would they? Did something new happen?

[quote] Hearing these retired cops and the prosecutor talk about the treasure trove they found of BDSM sex toys is quite something. And when they explain that Joe Price was the “sub” and the smaller blond guy was the “dom.” Poor Robert.

Huh? What does their having a kinky lifestyle have to do with his murder? Did people watch the same series?

If the Idaho murders tell us anything, people do break in and kill people and just walk out leaving people alive.

The neighbor reportedly said someone landed in her back yard and showed it and the police blew her off. The prosecutor should have been sent packing. What an idiot. The defense showed that they could open the front door without a key and showed it was easy to jump the fence.

Had they not fucked up the crime scene, the prosecution may have had a case.

Messing up the crime scene so idiotically would make a jury question everything the prosecution had and had they not fucked up the crime scene, they might have found blood.

The knife also killed the prosecution. Even I knew that it would have been a gift and would have been the reason it was in someone’s room. I do question if the mother really had taken the one missing knife out. Was she just trying to protect her son?

All in all, the prosecution had nothing and royally fucked up beyond belief.

Someone on Reddit said that someone testified that the blood may all have been in the abdomen.

Dylan’s the one to look out for. No alibi and on the same floor as the murder. He was also a dom.

[quote]How did his own semen get into his rectum - duh, he masturbated. It was on the side of his genitals. It’s runs down into the crack of your ass

Hadn't he just gotten out of the shower though? Or maybe I'm having a false memory. I thought they said he'd taken a shower at their place though. Either way it's a bit odd to masturbate when you're at someone else's house, especially if the three men were all still awake. And his dick must've been small of it dribbled down this taint. Most guys' jizz ends up in their stomach (or chest if they're particularly lucky).

R67 , witness for the defense.

[quote] May 5, 2010, from left, Joseph Price, Victor Zaborsky, lawyer David Schertler, and Dylan Ward, walk to courtCredit: AP

Should we take a tower class from Dylan (formerly Ward, now Thomas)?

[quote]I followed the case on Datalounge which had a series of very active threads

Many of which were deleted when someone -- either one of the three involved, or someone pretending to be one of the three -- would lose their shit on everyone. I can't tell you how many times I'd be in the middle of one of the threads trying to catch up, only to have it disappear. Must have happened four times, at least.

[quote]If they are all camped out in Fla. bad move as well. Wouldn't De Santis love to nail them to a cross to cement his Mr. Decency Crown.

[quote] Can't believe I could possibly cheer on De Santis, but in this case I would..

If they are still in Florida, in a way I'm kind of glad that they are living in a state with someone like DeSantis as governor. They know if DeSantis knew about the Wone case he would ripped them to shreds about being them "being gross BDSM perverts. Joe and Victor each donated to sperm to lesbian couple and the couple has two sons. There were articles on their involvement with lesbian couple prior to Robert's murder. Joe and Victor were having occasional visits with the sons. DeSantis would rip them and the lesbian couple apart.

Joe worked as counsel for Equality for Virginia. He probably still follows political and legal news regarding gay and lesbian rights and protections. Michigan has been making the news because the legislature recently passed expansion of Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act to include gay and lesbians in protections. I could imagine Joe reading that and being upset because even though Michigan is a weird state with militias and other far right loons, there was still enough support in legislation to expand civil right protections. Meanwhile, Joe is possibly stuck in Florida due to financial reasons and probably has to read or see DeSantis on the news spouting anti-gay crap, banning books, and trashing drag shows.

What does Sarah Morgan know, if anything?

When did I eat Wone?

[quote] Hadn't he just gotten out of the shower though?

Got out of the shower and jerked off in bed.

Reddit says that NO ONE KILLED ROBERT.

3 stab wounds = all three stabbed him once to make each one of them culpable.

Old thread from years ago.

WTF?

[quote] Datalounge, an anonymous gay gossip site, hosted the first sustained discussion on Robert’s murder. An especially sharp attorney-contributor from those early raw and raucous threads migrated over here, to our good fortune. Her support and good humor will always be appreciated; she’ll remain our BeaFF.

The lead detective’s saying “the first question I’m going to ask God is ‘Who killed Robert Wone?’” earned a big eye roll from me.

With the god botherers in charge, no wonder nothing gets done.

And did he really expect the audience— in this day and age— to be impressed / convinced by his god talk?

Moron.

Oh god, R87, that sounds painful. What an idiot.

The clips also showed the detectives making homophobic comments while questioning the three (gay) suspects. It’s shocking, really.

Plus, their khakis were tragic.

The cops were trying to bait the suspects with those comments, which is a common interrogation tactic. But you could also tell they weren't particularly worldly, which hampered aspects of the investigation. If they'd understood the dynamics of Price's two relationships better, they would've had a better shot at solving the case.

If you suspect all 3 but you have the evidence as to what actually happened or who, if any one of the three, did anything, you cannot convict someone and quite frankly they never should have charged anyone.

If this was a murder then there is no SOL and of one day you find the evidence that's when you charge someone or more than someone.

The lawyers were hardly scum. These guys are great lawyers and great guys. They did their jobs as they should have.

The smartest thing was having a bench trial because this case needed to be decided by the law and not hysterical emotions seeking to avenge sweet Robert's life. I was not surprised the judge acquitted them, she is very smart and quite fair.

I can't remember now all the details but I remember that the semen "evidence" was wonky and the government seemed to be clearly distorting facts about it.

I wouldn't discount a 4th party who was either invited in or was able to get in, those alleys are still iffy and frequented by burglars and robbers. One of my clients was a career burglar and during a ride around with my client and the detectives they were able to close something like 30 open cases that occurred over a short period of time in and around that area. I thought I was far from naive but I was astounded how much he remembered of his mostly night crimes.

I was really impressed by Bernie Grimm in the series but when I googled it says he’s since been disbarred for embezzling client funds. That’s a bummer.

Bernie Grimm came off shady as hell to me. He also looked like someone who takes part in coke orgies.

[quote] If this was a murder then there is no SOL

Huh?

[quote] The clips also showed the detectives making homophobic comments while questioning the three (gay) suspects. It’s shocking, really.

No it’s not. It’s standard practice: good cop vs bad cop. They try to get someone to crack.

[quote] If they'd understood the dynamics of Price's two relationships better, they would've had a better shot at solving the case.

I’m what way? All they needed to know if that they had three homosexuals in a house who were fucking one another. What else was there to know that would have led to them solving it? If anything, the BDSM stuff is something you’d have to have a background in understanding, not a thruple.

[quote] With the god botherers in charge, no wonder nothing gets done. And did he really expect the audience— in this day and age— to be impressed / convinced by his god talk? Moron.

You sound British.

There was no god talk. The detective made one comment at the very end to show how much he wanted to know who did it. Brits are morons. Ignore.

R96, they targeted Ward as the one most likely to crack because he was newer to the relationship, which was meaningless because of the power dynamics in his relationship with Price.

The part I just can’t get my head around is how Joe decided to murder his close friend.

Did Dylan do it as some sick BDSM thing to punish Joe and then blackmailed/manipulated Joe into covering it up? And then Victor went along with it all because he loved Joe?

But that theory doesn’t quite work because the crime scene was so flawless in such a short amount of time (suggesting planning) and all 3 kept it together while being questioned, not to mention Joe’s arrogance during the interrogation after his friend had just been brutally murdered - saying “they stabbed the guy!” as if he barely knew Robert.

Bernie Grimm has spent much of his adult life around murderers.

He says his best guess is Dylan did it. I would bet he’s right.

The short timeline suggests Wone walked into an already developing bad scene.

I would bet Dylan killed Wone in some sort of jealous rage. Maybe Dylan’s and Joe had “plans” for the evening (Victor was supposed to be out of town) and Joe blew Dylan off because his friend Robert was in town.

Let’s face it— Robert was adorable. Joe might have had a crush, or Dylan might have thought Joe had a crush on Robert.

Dylan was also giving very psycho, angry vibes in the interrogation clips. Whereas joe just came off whiny and typical DC entitled douchebag.

Dylan seems like the possible psycho in the bunch.

In the interrogation clips, Dylan also rather ominously and angrily insisted that Robert was not straight. It was kind of a WTF? moment. Why the anger over Robert’s sexuality?

D.C. has the highest concentration of sociopath scum in the nation!

It’s fascinating to consider maybe Dylan did this without the other two knowing.

Maybe Joe suspects but is too guilt-ridden to allow his mind to fully process the information.

Otherwise it’s difficult to understand why Joe and Victor would go along with a cover up.

Maybe the other weird aspects (lack of blood, them sitting around in robes when EMTs showed up) are very weird coincidences.

I don’t normally believe in coincidences, but it’s worth considering.

Everyone had gone to bed for the night.

Maybe Dylan, possibly high on something and seething about Robert’s being there, grabbed a knife (knife set close at hand as it was in his room) and in a blind rage went down the hall and stabbed Robert.

The other two “believed” the intruder theory because they want to believe it.

Was Dylan known to use meth? Meth would explain a lot.

I can believe Dylan stabbed him without the other two knowing - but I don’t believe for a second that they didn’t wake up and help him clean/cover it up for whatever reason. The scene was too pristine.

^ I can buy that more than the idea that they all decided to kill someone together that night

It would be pretty stupid to clean up the scene.

Clean cuts don’t exactly match a crazed intruder scenario. Hide the knife, sure. That part makes sense.

If Dylan did it, he could explain his DNA being there because he lived there.

[quote]If this was a murder then there is no SOL

SOL = Statute of Limitations

Wouldn't an intruder have been scared off by the door alarm chirping upon entry?

If he was stabbed in the bedroom there would be blood evidence all over everything. Mattress soaked, etc. No way a clean up is going to leave no evidence.

R51:

[quote] A true crime writer on Reddit who goes by the handle of Cliff Truxton makes a convincing, if circumstantial, case for "Wone was closeted, and it was a sex game gone wrong." I'd be interested to know why those in this thread who initially believed that no longer think it was the case.

Thanks for your brilliant link. After reading through Cliff’s very detailed reasoning, I’m glad to discover that his conclusions reaffirmed my initial hunch right from the start: that’s Robert’s death, by asphyxiation, was an accident, the tragic result of a BDSM sex game gone terribly wrong

The other two participants of the sex game are alleged to be Joe and Dylan

R111: according to the speculation of the Reddit detective, Robert died by suffocation, likely resulted from some fatal breath play and/or rimming [!]. The stabbing was a desperate gesture to make it seem like he was attacked by some anonymous intruder

As he was supposedly stabbed post-death, that explains why there’s little blood at the crime scene

I’ve linked below the Conclusion of the Reddit report:

The autopsy stated that he suffocated on his own blood which was the result of a stabbing

That would have meant they engaged in the sex game immediately, he died very shortly thereafter, they cleaned up (or stabbed) his body, they got their stories together for the police, they took showers, they called 911–in a little over an hour. I know it’s possible, but wow, that’s a tight schedule.

It doesn't take long to suffocate in the position the Reddit detective supposes Robert was in, but since the autopsy says suffocation involved the blood, I see two options:

1) The medical examiner could be wrong. Experts are experts, but not immune to mistakes.

2) "Some from Column A, some from Column B," weaving in a little of this thread's speculation. Maybe Dylan, incensed at Robert for God knows what reason, decides to stab him when he's vulnerable while he's under Joe. You've got your face buried in someone's hole [italic]and[/italic] you get stabbed? That'll do it.

I just don’t see a guy as uptight as Wone being into a sex scene with these guys.

I knew a lot of guys like Wone when I lived in DC. Especially the Asian guys- I have trouble imagining them even masturbating. Just unbelievably repressed.

Good old fashioned jealousy seems more likely. But it is really weird how staged the scene seems to be.

Could Dylan have attacked Robert while he was in the shower?

The only reason to do a clean up is if Robert actually died someplace else (other than his bed.)

Maybe Dylan attacked him downstairs?

How close is the kitchen to the patio that had been hosed down?

Take Robert’s body out of the kitchen, hose him down, pose him in his bed to sell the intruder theory?

[quote] He says his best guess is Dylan did it. I would bet he’s right.

He doesn’t believe any of them are guilty. They pushed him to choose one.

Did they spike the wine he was drinking in the kitchen?

They all should have been tested for drugs. Not sure the legality though.

Still though, they did all of that in just 70 minutes?! They didn’t even know he was coming over originally. They got him cleaned up in that short span of time? Got their stories straight too?

And also stuck to those stories. After all that, surely one would crack. 70 mins to get used to the idea that you killed someone?!

My theory (and of course, it’s just a theory) is somebody (Dylan, probably) spiked Robert’s water (or whatever beverage he had bedside) while he was in the shower (GHB, maybe?) Then, when Robert became incapacitated (he had been working all day, so he could easily pass out from not very much G), Dylan injected Robert with some sort of paralytic used in BDSM play (the needle marks have always been so baffling to me) to further dominate him. Then Dylan used the milking machine on Robert (yes, a man CAN orgasm even if he doesn’t want to… watch some bondage edging porn sometime,) and used Robert’s semen as lube and tried to rape him. (A big fetish in some bareback porn is to make the bottom climax first, then use his load as lube so the top can finish off inside the bottom, with a mixture of their semen.) But if that was the intention, it obviously never got that far. Robert could have regained the use of his paralyzed body (again, pure speculation), fought back, and Dylan panicked and stabbed him. I’m not a participant in BDSM activities, but some of the stuff people are into (mummification, e-stim, choking to the point of passing out, safety pin play, sounding) tend to send people further and further down a path of weirdness. And for all his love of Pilates, from the number of books/toys/paraphernalia Dylan Ward/Thomas apparently had (and once they refused to cooperate, game over…), he sounds like he was well down that dark path.

The needle marks could still have been from the EMTs regardless of what they said.

I was very unimpressed with the detectives. And EMTs are almost always idiots and pillheads, so I never listen to anything they have to say.

I think a lot of the information about the crime scene is inaccurate. It was leaked by these homophobic, drama queen detectives.

I don’t know if they’re homophobic or not but the technique they used in the interrogation is pretty standard. Sure, they automatically had it in their heads that they were all fucking, and guess what, they were pretty spot on in regards to the extremes of their sex lives. Keep in mind that this was a big gay area. They dealt with that community for years. No doubt they saw a lot of sex crimes.

In the end, the detectives were pretty stupid. To mess up that crime scene the way that they did is unforgivable.

The three stab wounds were supposed to be neat and precise

If the victim were still alive, even if he were taken surprise by the first stab, the initial pain would mean that he would have struggled desperately before the subsequent second and third stabs went in

But the wounds were all neat and tidy, and little blood present

Possible deduction: the victim was already dead when he was stabbed

[of course this is based on the premise that no drugs were found in the victim ‘s body, thus ruling out drug-induced unconsciousness]

The medical examiner explains paralytics in the Peacock documentary and how there would not have been a trace of what Wone is believed to have been injected with, even though the needle marks remained. EMTs and hospital staff denied having injected him with anything, which implicates Ward or one of his accomplices.

R128: I’m genuinely curious what drugs/paralytics that would be, especially it’s not as if the body had been left out in the wild for a long time for the drug to naturally degenerate/disappear?

R129, I think it was succinylcholine that was mentioned in the documentary but someone else would have to verify. It's rapidly metabolized, short-acting, and has been used in other murders, albeit differently than how it would've been used by Wone's killer.

Love that Scum Bag Lawyer Bernie Grimm is now officially credited with who he is..

He made my neck hairs rise up the minute he showed his mug in the Robert Wone Doc.

CREEP..disbarred, Yeah!

Bernie Grimm is a sleazebag and the definition of the ambulance chasing scums who DEFEND murderers even though they KNOW their clients are guilty.

He look like Jesse Tyler Ferguson - in 20 years.

That scene of the park benches at the end was interesting. Did they really get the prosecuting attorney and the defense attorney (Grimm) to shoot the scene together or was just edited to look like they were sitting next to each other?

Just finished the two episodes. While it was slick and well-told, I didn't learn anything I hadn't already gleaned years ago from reddit and the blog.

One (of a million questions I am still left with): If the state wanted to make the case that Robert had been sexually assaulted and had not, as the defense periodically implied, masturbated just prior to his attack, they would have had to find traces of seminal fluid on his hands, no? No one is going to rub one out and be bothered enough to get up to wash their hands afterwards without wiping their genitals as well. If he did that, there would have been a towel in the bathroom with traces of semen still on it. And if he had probed his own asshole while masturbating (which may have introduced the seminal fluid into his anal cavity), there would have been traces of fecal matter or skin cells under his fingernails that most likely would have still been present even after a casual handwashing.

I have used one of those TENS units in play before. The electrode patches are basically disposable when used on the genitals during kink play because they're super cheap (you can get a pack of 24 for under $10) and obviously they cannot be properly sterilized after use, so them not finding any with Robert's DNA on them is not surprising. They would have been disposed of along with the knife.

I think Michael was the source of the paralytic and that he took evidence when he left that night. I wonder if the burglary was to even the scales bc Joe had not paid him for his "help?" No ring cameras back then and those alleys are dark.

Joe had explicit hardcore BDSM material on his Arent Fox work computer. He liked to push and push when it came to risk taking. I think they had planned a thrill kill, probably getting off on discussing and envisioning it. When Robert turned up was either wrong place wrong time or some culmination of a crush/jealousy perhaps. If planned, was not only the thrill kill but the race against the clock, sound really carries on that block.

Could it have been some kind of blood sacrifice with the blood being drained?

The books all seemed like Joe was training Dylan to be a dom. Wasn't he really the one in control of all of it, topping from the bottom?

Why did Joe initially say that Robert was on the patio and they moved him up to the bed? There would have been a huge blood trail and who carries a critically injured grown man up flights of stairs? It seemed like a Freudian slip but hard to fit it in. Maybe an attempt to divert.

Per the Robert Wone blog, Dylan has moved on and is married to someone else. They should probably sleep with one eye open.

R134- If used improperly could it leave marks on the body similar to needle marks? I have that someone suspected Succinylcholine may have used on Robert. ( God I hope not, agonizing and terrifying death.). Serial killer nurse Genene Jones used this on her victims as have other murders. Because of this Succinylcholine would be very hard to obtain outside of a hospital setting because it is kept locked up now and not just any hospital employee would have access to it. Price strongly reminds me of the Alfred Hitchcock movie Rope. He appears to be a narcissistic sociopath and a complete control freak. That is just my impression of him. I think he enjoys having power and control over the men in his life and is constantly gaslighting them. I can very easily picture him telling his lover if you love me you will do this with me or some such. Now they are bound to him forever in this life. If a person is smothered, even accidentally, wouldn't there be bruising and or some bleeding of the mouth from the victims struggle to breathe and break free? Finally , what a fucked up inexcusable joke of a crime scene. Inexcusable incompetence. Did they even do a tox screen on Robert? Rules for me but not for thee.

Three knife wounds three killers......they all did it that way so they can't blame the others.

Murder on the Orient Express.

R137: How do you believe they incapacitated him without leaving signs of a struggle?

Et tu, Dylan?

Joe's brother Michael had access to a paralytic drug and was absent from work the night Robert was killed, his only absence.

Death by drugs......all three held him in the shower while they bled him out....returned him to the bed.....

I have followed this case for years. Deep diving into conspiracy theories. It IS possible it was an "intruder" but possibly an assassin/ political kill. Wone worked for Radio Free Asia. Radio Free Asia's mission is to provide accurate and timely news and information to Asian countries whose governments prohibit access to a free press. There have been instances of lawyers and journalists being targeted by foreign governments and the CIA.

WHY DID RADIO FREE ASIA wipe his Blackberry one day later?? (not in documentary but in the case files)

I think the guys were way too afraid to talk. As far as Wone having his own semen in his anus it is possible he had masturbated prior to the assassination. We don't know if the semen was found deep in the anus or not. Perhaps it was a "hit". It is DC. Perhaps I have watched too much HOMELAND but this is also a theory that may be plausible.

r142 here.

Police search Joseph, Victor, and Dylan’s cars to find evidence that will crack the case. They returned Robert’s Blackberry to Radio Asia, failing to fingerprint it or duplicate it. The company wiped it clean, destroying any evidence that it might have contained.

WHY DID THE RETURN IT AND WHY DID RADIO FREE ASIA WIPE IT CLEAN??

The documentary (or someone in it) said wiping the phone was company policy.

R143, listen to R144. When companies provide electronic equipment to employees, they expect it to be returned if the employee leaves the company. Once it's returned, they wipe it completely and reload software as though it were new. This is done for obvious privacy and security reasons.

I do agree that the police returning the BB before the case was closed is odd.

Omg so tragic

Straight men don’t sleep over at gay men’s houses. Especially back then. Plus, just look at Robert. Gorgeous man but clearly gay as a picnic basket. It started as consensual sex and then they killed him.

A "hit man" intruder A) Would've brought their own knife and B) Wouldn't do a hit at some ransom's house with three potential witnesses. Also an intruder would've been scared off by the beeping of the security alarm upon entering the house. There was no intruder.

R147 Not true. They were long time friends but in the end, this is a good etiquette lesson. Don’t impose on friends when you can grab a hotel room close to work. I don’t understand why he didn’t just do that.

Or just commute 25 minutes home to Oakton since it’s 10:30 and there’s no traffic.

[quote]Straight men don’t sleep over at gay men’s houses. Especially back then.

You’re an idiot.

[quote]WHY DID RADIO FREE ASIA wipe his Blackberry one day later?? (not in documentary but in the case files)

Case files? Where?

[quote]Death by drugs......all three held him in the shower while they bled him out....returned him to the bed.....

They managed all that in under an hour?

R142, how would an assassin know that he would be at the house and what room he would be in? It was nighttime too.

Dylan snapped for whatever reason.

r152 Crime Junkie did a great episode on this mentioning the case files. If you can get past the two hostesses insufferable voices it is an EXCELLENT and thorough look at the case.

Has Dylan since extracted himself from the throuple in the years since the lawsuit?

R147, “gorgeous” is stretching a point. If you like a certain type, Robert was cute. He wouldn’t appeal much to most women. He would appeal to Asian-twink-loving gay men (which these miscreants may have been), but even so there are hotter examples of even that narrow type.

I do agree Robert most likely expected and wanted to have sex with someone or someones at the house. How far it went before “consensual” turned to non-consenting violence, we’ll never know.

Dylan is married to someone else and teaches Pilates in FL.

Per current online records, Joe and Victor have moved back north to an apt in Silver Spring, MD, just outside DC. Victor still works in marketing. Joe has an active DC bar license, not sure where he is working these days.

The Interrogation Of A Homosexual Under Suspicion

His three stab wounds which were the cause of death were clean, indicating he was given a paralytic substance. Also there was next to no bleeding on the sheets which is very likely that he was stabbed elsewhere, was cleaned and moved to the bed. All three housemates were wearing only robes with wet hair when police arrived which means they were freshly bathed. The circumstantial evidence alone is overwhelming that they were involved and removed evidence. The police detectives did a shitty job gathering the existing evidence. It's obvious they got away with murder.

It is so sad. Wonder how long the gruesome twosome will stay in the DC area?

free podcast / go to 9 min mark to begin the program

free podcast / go to 9 min mark to begin the program

Anyone else noticed on the 911 call the dispatcher keeps saying “ma’am”?! 😭

What was the motive? Was it premeditated murder? How often did he spend the night with these friends?

Yep, R165, Victor gets a little shrill when he's excited.

Wonder who Joe gets his BDSM freak on now that Dylan has found someone to marry him? Mr. "Got Milk" seems too vanilla but maybe appearances are deceiving there, look who he is married to after all.

On the Audible podcast about the case, the narrator mentioned how the dispatcher misgendered Victor and called him ma'am.

He did sound very shrill on the 911 call.