BREAKING NEWS: Bette Midler is a TERF!

I agree with her and she did not mention trans

[quote]I agree with her and she did not mention trans

AND THAT MAKES HER TRANSPHOBIC !!!

she will def delete this by the end of the day and issue an apology

She's right.

She is right.

She's been called a TERF for years already for transphobic jokes.

What are some of these transphobic jokes that she’s been doing for years?

Twitter replies are all about trans TRANS TRAAAAAAANS and fucking inclusion.

Lots of angry men with beards shouting at her.

I’m suddenly a fan.

R10 Me too ;)

She was previously glib about Caitlyn Jenner, is the most prominent example. When she apologized she only did so to the Human Rights Campaign, which irked people.

Bette steps in it on Twitter with some regularity, mostly recently during the formula shortage. Pre-Twitter, she made some comments about gay marriage on Larry King Live that raised eyebrows.

Bette, you in danger girl!

Bette is telling the truth.

Can I burn my DVD of "For the Boys"? I'll miss it less.

Already, teeth-gnashing folx are freaking out, asking her to "do better."

She's doing beyond better. She's doing the best, which is calling out this semantic gender nonsense for what it is.

MACY GREY IS ALSO A TERF!!!!

Who next? Martika?

Sexy!

[quote]Bette steps in it on Twitter with some regularity, mostly recently during the formula shortage.

She also tried to say women had it worse than black people a couple of years back and got her ass royally handed to her.

These white feminists know what cards to pull, but they show their true shit every once in a while.

She also wasn't supportive of gay marriage in the early 2000's, and was publicly disgusted over Britney and Madonna kissing on TV, and said she didn't want to have to explain "that" to her daughter.

Barbra, Liza and Diana would NEVER.

I actually saw the interview on gay marriage when it aired. She wasn’t against it but said she didn’t really think that gay men wanted that.

The usual BS.

"This is not okay!"

"Do better!"

"We see you!"

[quote]She's doing beyond better. She's doing the best, which is calling out this semantic gender nonsense for what it is.

Absolutely. "Non-binary," for example, is a bullshit term. It doesn't change anyone's biological sex, although lots of people today are delusional enough to think it does.

The Larry King interview's on YouTube now.

R21 But what about lesbians & bisexuals who want to get married?

Why was gay marriage always framed around GAY MEN for most of the 90s & 2000s?

There was a negative BI awhile back that had Bette as the obvious answer.

It implied that a hetero married bisexual female singer/actor sexually harassed about a half dozen female nannies/housekeepers & that she couldn't get the agencies to give her any more due to the sexual suggestions . I think one of the clues was that the amount of kids was the same that Bette had & that the female entertainer also had performed in gay scenes a.k.a. The Baths. I can't recall what other clues were in it (this was years ago) but every single thing pointed to her.

Guarantee she will delete that.

There are many things you are NOT permitted to say on Twitter. And that is about near the top of the list.

And you are not permitted to defend anyone who does break the rigidly enforced rules because they will come after you, too.

She really, really, really HATES trump and magats, and she's been a great supporter of liberal causes and the Democratic Party for many years. But, she's now an evil person, apparently.

They are just jealous Bette sold her penthouse for $45 million.

Who is the first young major female celeb who is going to come out as a TERF?

Direct link to the tweet in OP

^ this way y’all can track if/when the tweet is deleted, or not

R30, Taylor swift used the W word recently

[quote]I agree with her and she did not mention trans

Yes she did. Those words are trans inclusive. That’s why they exist, idiot.

Bette is a typical JAP. No one who’s worked with her can stand her. She’s a nightmare. She can’t sing either. It’s always been a joke.

She's pushin 80 - didn't even realize that!

I like some of her work, but she is the cuntiest of cunts. There was applause down Pacific Coast Highway when she left Laguna Beach.

She’s right. Trans women are psychotic and should fuck off.

Plenty say that about her R38.

Does she realize that it's her side of the political aisle that is pushing this shit 24/7? Not the "evil" Republicans she devotes 99% of her Twitter feed to attacking.

Yes - what better person then another liberal to tell progressives to get their shit together.

Nena Cherry, r17.

Looking forward to hearing TRAs call Macy Gray a white feminist.

Good Lord, these people are demented: "This is a bad take, Bette!!! Not all women have vaginas and not all people with vaginas are women!! Pleas include trans people in your feminism or it means absolutely nothing!"

R44 Which is really saying "your feminism must center men or it means nothing!"

I'm sure Bette had no idea what a can of worms she was opening. She doesn't know that realizing how insulting and demeaning those terms are makes her a TERF. She just knows they are ways to diminish women, as any sane person does.

[quote]I'm sure Bette had no idea what a can of worms she was opening. She doesn't know that realizing how insulting and demeaning those terms are makes her a TERF. She just knows they are ways to diminish women, as any sane person does.

She knows. She spends enough time on Twitter to see what happened to JK Rowling and Margaret Atwood, despite Atwood's cowardly reverse ferrets.

The problem with the term TERF is the E - women branded TERFs don't want to exclude trans people from anything, they want to focus on women.

Therefore the term Non-Trans Focused Radical Feminists would be better but NTFRF isn't as catchy.

How does 2% of the population (and it’s probably more like .2%) get to determine what the other 98% can say? Madness.

She's right.

How soon until they get quotes from SJP and Najimy disavowing her, lest Hocus Porkus 2 be tainted?

R46 Yep. I'm sure she also saw what happened to Debra Messing when she dared to post a photo of a vagina cake.

R47 See link.

r50 There is clearly money behind this from pharmaceutical companies but blaming George Soros for it causes the claim to be tainted and lose credibility because Soros is such a right wing boogeyman.

R51 His foundation brags about what they're doing.

Just like, up until a few years ago, the ACLU was bragging on their website about shutting down all the lunatic asylums. Surprise surprise, they removed all that from the front page of their website once every nightly news segment included a story about some lunatic who should have been tossed in a padded cell instead of out attacking random innocents in the streets.

Watch for Uncle George to do the same when the tides turn on trans. Suddenly he'll be doing his best Mariah impersonation.

[quote][R50] There is clearly money behind this from pharmaceutical companies but blaming George Soros for it causes the claim to be tainted and lose credibility because Soros is such a right wing boogeyman.

As this article states, the right wing hate him because he's a Jewish liberal, the far left hate him because he's a Jewish capitalist.

There is some dodgy funding around the trans movement - in the UK it was a deliberate move by Stonewall because they had achieved all their campaigning causes for gay and lesbian/same sex rights and needed to carry on getting in cash. In the US there is a clear interest from pharmaceutical companies and private medical providers who are making big money from the cause.

r52 Yes. I understand the foundation has a gender identity statement. It does not mean that he, an "avaricious Jewish boogeyman", is behind the entire trans movement. They didn't add that gender identity part until gender identity became a popular thing.

I've seen estimates that each new trans person is worth $1.3 million to the pharmaceutical companies, over the trans persons' lifetime. That's a lot!

R53 No. They hate him because he ratted out his fellow Jews to the Nazis.

Stryker & the Pritzkers also have their hands in the trans cookie jar.

R55 And that's why they're targeting children. The younger they get them, the more money they make. Plus younger people are more easily duped.

[quote]Nena Cherry, [R17].

Neneh Cherry re-recorded Buffalo Stance with Robyn because TRANS LIVES MATTER.

She released a single called Woman from an album called Man. She knows the difference between sex and gender but she pretends it's the same.

[quote][R53] No. They hate him because he ratted out his fellow Jews to the Nazis.

Soros was born in 1930. The ward ended in 1945. The idea that he was collaborated with the Nazis is disgraceful

R60 Even more disgraceful than a teenage Soros ratting out his fellow Jews to the Nazis?

[quote]Bette is a typical JAP. No one who’s worked with her can stand her. She’s a nightmare. She can’t sing either. It’s always been a joke.

Mid-90s I lived in LA and volunteered for an AIDS PROJECTS Los Angeles benefit concert at which she was the headliner. Others on the bill included Melissas Manchester and Ethridge. I brought the CD cover from "Experience the Divine" with me in hopes of getting it autographed.

After the show ended, the Volunteer Coordinator took it from me and making no promises, said she would ask. About twenty minutes later, she brought it back with Midler's sign in blue ink. Success. But according to her, it was like pulling teeth. She refused until it was mentioned I had worked the event and then she "begrudgingly" signed it.

I had it framed and sent to my closet friend for Christmas that year. It went on his "Diva Wall."

I should've asked if he had a "CUNT Corner" to put it in.

"Birthing persons" and "chest feeding" (the latter I still don't understand) radicalized me on this issue. It's obscene that the words "woman" and "breast" are considered violent and disrespectful.

The replies are wild. "Not only women menstruate!" "The term 'woman' is too polarizing."

[quote]"This is a bad take, Bette!!! Not all women have vaginas and not all people with vaginas are women!! Pleas include trans people in your feminism or it means absolutely nothing!"

Maybe trans women need to include feminism in their talking points because I have never in all of their ranting heard any mention of women's rights except as it applies to the women that have no vaginas and the men that do.

To a thinking rational person trans rights looks like the supplanting of the rights of biological women, who are a far greater number of the worlds women's population, for the focus on only those rights that matter to the trans community.

Trans women do not give a shit about the rights that biological women fight for because they have no problem with patriarchy. They are desperate to fit into the binary of female because to them livingthe social constructs of the mid century is a dream come true for them.

[quote]"Birthing persons" and "chest feeding" (the latter I still don't understand) radicalized me on this issue. It's obscene that the words "woman" and "breast" are considered violent and disrespectful.

A university in Scotland tried to provide "trans inclusive" education for midwives on how to insert a catheter for a pregnant man in labour. Obviously trans men are females and only females get pregnant but the educators got confused and provided information on how to insert a catheter into a penis.

Which hole the baby was going to come out of wasn't specified but good for them for trying to be diverse.

The Trans are so angry, so filled with hate!

Women are so crazy, they lop off their healthy tits to become “men”, but they still want to have babies!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Well...if Julia Carrie Wong says it, it must be true!

I shit you not, my first boyfriend went to Harvard and was classmates with Julia Carrie Wong. She was as crazy then back in 2005 as she is now.

Bette is getting far more praise for her courage than derision. But it's a landmine for sure.

Good for Bette. She is not the occasional twitter poster. She's an important voice, a great liberal democrat.

Cher scribbles away out there too - but no one can understand what in the fuck she's trying to say. Barbra makes a lot bland statements that display her bad grammar.

[quote]No one who’s worked with her can stand her. She’s a nightmare.

Tell me about it!

Oh lord r69. if only the world was as simple as it is in the minds of people like that.

I'm very afraid and fearful of Twitter people using angry words against me in a word war, over something I never encounter in waking life.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go finish rinsing the tightening alum powder out of my vagina as it's burning.

Julia Carrie Wong?

More like Julia Carrie WRONG!

There's a lot of people taking this completely condescending approach to Bette like she's well-meaning but just doesn't understand the landscape, god bless her! They usually end with "Educate yourself" or "Do better".

The right wing came up with that lie, r56/r61.

She's not wrong.

I am not anti Trans and I wish all trans people well but some of the language they force on others....well, if there's anti trans sentiment they are bringing it on themselves.

Trans men and "nonbinary people" are the REAL victims of the Roe appeal!

Bette… “Every human on Earth” includes trans men and nonbinary people — [bold]who are impacted twice over by the contemporary waves of legislated bigotry[/bold] that Roe v Wade’s overturn is a part of

Silly women, making it all about you! It's all about the TRANS, 'bout the TRANS, 'bout the TRANS ...

I'd love to see the stats on how many trans men and non-binaries get pregnant and of those, who seek an abortion. I'd bet the people screaming at Bette 'to do better!' have no idea.

Please ask me how to reference my body parts.

I love the responses saying that the people who are nonbinary might not hear or understand healthcare instructions for women because they're nonbinary. Like "What are these instructions for "male" and "females", for "men" or "women"?? I am nonbinary, therefore neither apply to me!

One person responded: "They're well aware what sex they are, they've certainly thought about it enough."

Debbie and Joan were rad bitches. Seriously.

^^^^^^ That r82 is Literal Violence to my eyes. and very disgusting too.

R81, of the approximately 600,000 people who have abortions in the U.S. annually, approximately 600 identified as trans or non-binary. So, literally, 99.9 percent of the people who have abortions self-identify as women, but these fringe nutjobs have hissy fits when abortion patients are described as women.

I'm sure Bette Midler posted in support of the NY Times column that ran yesterday.

[quote]I'd love to see the stats on how many trans men and non-binaries get pregnant and of those, who seek an abortion. I'd bet the people screaming at Bette 'to do better!' have no idea.

To hear them shriek endlessly about murdered transwomen, you'd think very street in the world would be littered with the corpses by now. The murder rate of transwomen is, of course, lower than that of women. Even more predictable, in countries like the UK, there are more transwomen who've COMMITED murder than HAVE BEEN murdered.

The entire movement is based on fantasy and lies. If they're claiming it, just assume the opposite is true. And if you know someone who parrots this "people who have abortions" nonsense or any other language that erases women and denies biological sex: you're dealing with someone who is genuinely mentally ill and that person should be avoided at all costs.

She's very late to the party.

Good for Bette. I hope other sane liberals join her. The term transphobic has no magical power over most Americans. Don't let the Republicans ride birthing people and chest feeding to any future electoral victories. Wasn't defund the police enough?.

Nice change of pace for her from her regular racist content. She’s about a month away from being a Daily Wire darling.

Of course she left out a woman's biggest fear: that their man will turn queer.

[quote] Good for Bette. I hope other sane liberals join her.

If Bette has become the yardstick for sanity god help us

R64 the replies prove her point. Not only that they are obviously shit takes, but they all use exactly the same words, the same phrases. It's a religion. I loved her for a long time via proxy, so to speak, because a friend once sang "From a distance" when he was doing piano bar, and I wasn't familiar with the song before that. (I was very young.) Since then, I always thought fondly of her.

No, man cannot give birth, and future generations will laugh at us. Compared to this madness, believing that blowing smoke up someone's ass revives him sounds scientific.

"men", not "man"!

I'll be shocked if she doesn't delete that in deference to the birthing people admirers.

I'd be surprised if she apologizes.

If Bette follows the usual scenario she will delete, apologize, and give thanks to those enlightened souls who "helped" her see the light

And then blame it on Trump or Putin.

r55 I'm really interested in that 1.3 million for each Trans. That would explain a lot. Do you remember where you saw it, or do you have any links? Thanks

Unlike the new Supreme Court Justice who won't define what a woman is, Bette is showing courage in speaking truth to trans lunacy.

100! My pussy stinks!

The Trans Activists have a diaper rash flare-up every time another group is getting attention for whatever reason. If oysters and scallops were put on a "protected list" tonight, meltdowns would happen across the land.

That's how maniacal and unbalanced people react to any perceived harm or slight.

If everyone ignored them instead of indulging, they just might get tired and go away. And no, being ignored is not cruel, nor is it "literal violence".

0.6% or less of the population is being kowtowed to and it’s going to lead to another Nazi regime

The problem is the “inclusive language” has like 500 variations of every fucking term and the dissociative Borderline Personality people can’t decide which term they want, it’s truly insane

[quote]they all use exactly the same words, the same phrases. It's a religion.

It's a cult!

She can TERF-up with Caitlyn Jenner as elderwomyn.

I'm surprised with the thousands who probably literally die from exhaustion due to tweets by these terfs that there are any left to be offended by it.

[quote]If Bette follows the usual scenario she will delete, apologize, and give thanks to those enlightened souls who "helped" her see the light. And then blame it on Trump or Putin.

Trump and Putin deserve every bit of blame that's heaped on them, Kellyanne.

You can call yourself non-binary all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're either a man or a woman.

I could insist that everyone address me as "Your Royal Highness," but that doesn't really make me royalty.

It's spreading !

Singer 𝑴𝒂𝒄𝒚 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒚 has said that she doesn't believe that transgender women should be allowed to compete against biological women in sport in a no-holds-barred interview where she said: 'Just because you go and change your parts doesn't make you a woman, sorry.'

In an interview on Piers Morgan Uncensored, the 54-year-old acknowledged that people will 'hate me for saying this' but 'I know that for a fact. If you want me to call you a 'her', I will, because that's what you want but that doesn't make you a woman just because I call you a 'her' and just because you got a surgery.'

[quote]It's a cult!

Is it now, R104?

R109: yes, here’s a very clip of Macy on the Piers Morgan show

[quote]Even more disgraceful than a teenage Soros ratting out his fellow Jews to the Nazis?

Hey, it was a REALLY NICE house and he was tired of them scurrying about the attic like mice.

Piers Morgan believes nothing about anything and going on his show is always a mistake. He's just as always latching on to the latest thing to generate headlines for himself. Sigh. If Macy Gray has an agent, I'm sure she's aghast.

Fewer than 2% of trans women actually get the sex reassignment surgery. Only suckers and the firmest believers get it. I think it should be outlawed because there is nobody whose life is better for having that surgery.

Poor jazz Jennings. It didn’t make any difference for her because she had a micro penis and had never had an erection due to the puberty blockers and cross sex hormones given to her from age 11 on up.

R114 And the majority of trannys, who will never cut their cocks off, call the ones who do truscum.

The word "woman" IS inclusive; it covers four billion people.

But Jazz got a TV show and we got some money out of the reassignment drama, so it's all good!

R98 Scott Newgent, a F2M trans man, talks about it a lot with anyone who will listen. His org is TRE voices.

Human Beings Aren't Clown Fish

Sing Along . . .

This guy is working on a mockumentary narrated by a David Attenborough sound-alike.

I can't believe that more people don't support Bette Midler on DL. She's very outspoken and brave on the socials. And one of the very few well read celebrities of her time. She puts out some groaners for sure, but she is NOT shy or afraid of twitter retribution or losing fans. She's one who gets just how much is at risk. The fascist white supremacist capitalist putin run sleeper cells have been ACTIVATED. America was in deep trouble under TRUMP - whom she actively HATED daily, but who knew he was just the canary in the coalmine. If the US doesn't win the senate in the midterms - life as you know it, is over. Gays, you're next as Bette says. She's not being mean or disrespectful. She's trying to wake people the fuck up.

Yes she's a wealthy old celebrity. She's making the most out of that. She has a fucking DISNEY movie coming out and she's still tweeting stuff like this:

She's way before my time - but I ❤ her female BALLS!!

Scott Newgent is who I also thought of when I read R98.

Scott has talked about being *42* when the decision was made to transition, I guess to emphasize the point that if someone that old got completely caught up in the ideology, it can happen to an impressionable teenager a third his age. Apparently the decision was made because Scott was in a relationship with a homophobic woman who didn't want to be seen as a lesbian to her equally homophobic family.

R121 some of the perpetually-online don't understand her humor dates back to Vaudeville and call her racist and bigoted because she may pop off a one-liner they don't understand.

Mark Hamill — by all accounts a kind, decent, liberal guy — liked Bette's tweet and now the simple act of liking a tweet has him being attacked by the T on Twitter.

So along with Boy George, Kate Pierson, JK Rowling, and many other great LGB people and their allies, we have the T focusing their hate on ostensible allies rather than the GOP.

[quote]@MarkHamill 41% of trans people attempt suicide. That number drops to 4% when they're supported. And you just told trans fans they are evil and "anti women". I would say I was shocked but [bold]I expect betrayal from literally everyone, honestly[/bold].

R121 How is she brave when she's reading from the same script as 99% of Hollywood and the media? Much of her tweets are vile (going on and on about Melania's pussy juice on a leather car seat, calling Lindsey Graham gay because that's the biggest insult she can come up with for a man, calling entire states bigoted while reveling in her own bigotry at the same time like she did with West Virginia recently or referring to black Trump supports as "blackground") or else she's attacking any female celebrity who is younger and prettier than her (so basically all of them). She's so wrapped up in spewing her hatred that she doesn't even acknowledge her co-stars and directors when they die.

I was such a huge fan of her when I was a teen (in the 1990s) and she really did con me into thinking she was a sweet person. Maybe she used to be sweet then but now she's a raving hateful old cunt. At least Cher has a sense of humor.

R125 you sound exhausting.

R125 And yet, she is totally correct on this.

R234 Boy George is a big trans supporter now. He was doing his usual devil's-advocate schtick with them at first but then once they descended upon him he began reciting the sacred mantra TWAW and attacking others who questioned it.

R128 yeah, the convicted felon turned on a dime.

I forget what talk show Bette was on, but she had really cute shoes on and the host (maybe Johnny, but it seems later?) commented and she said they were from Cher. Then added, "They were the only thing she ever gave me". in a snotty tone. Excuse me Bette, does Cher owe you gifts?

R128, So many gays and lesbians support gender ideology and have been fooled into believing that questioning t ideology is actually an attack on them!!

I understand why Boy George doesn’t want to upset them when he has to sell tickets and merch to these people to pay bills.

TRANS 👏 MEN 👏 ARE 👏 MEN!!!!

I’m sure they will try their bullying tactics on Bette.

TERF is an acronym for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. First recorded in 2008, the term originally applied to the minority of feminists espousing sentiments that other feminists considered transphobic, such as the rejection of the assertion that trans women are women, the exclusion of trans women from women's spaces, and opposition to transgender rights legislation. The meaning has since expanded to refer more broadly to people with trans-exclusionary views who may have no involvement with radical feminism.

When did Bette Midler ever claim to be sweet?

She's many things more substantial than sweet. And MORE important.

Unlike Cher - she doesn't communicate in crayon.

Hamill has tip toed out of line multiple times and promptly jumps right back into line all suplicating and genuflection

[quote] Midler: They don’t call us “women” anymore; they call us “birthing people” or “menstruators”

Well, really, she hasn’t been called the latter for quite some time now…?

R131 it was funny how he was just doing his usual oppositional thing with something trans-related and thinking he was clever and then the chorus of "Boy George is a TERF!!! Stone him!" started and he immediately backed down and went the opposite direction. He's an argumentative old contrarian on the best of days, bet that threw him off!

Live by the tweet. Die by the tweet

R134 She tried to pass herself off as sweet in the late 90s early 90s when she was marketing herself toward fraus and college girls.

R132 she's a woman, of course they will.

The condescension and ageism in many of the replies is off the charts, too. "Oh, she's just a clueless old person who needs to be reeducated!"

R133 Excuse me, what is 'trans rights legislation'? There are no laws against trannys, that I am aware of, in America? Are there any.....

Biden can fuck himself.. he was against gay men serving in the military for 20 years but he supports straight males being housed in womens prisons??? What sense does that make?

Good for Bette!

And, most people are "TERFs" because why the fuck should a tiny subset of people with body dysphoria issues dictate what it is to be an actual woman?

It's ridiculous.

(And, there's nothing wrong with being trans...to each their own...but, their insistence that they're EXACTLY like an actual biological woman and have the same issues, is beyond stupid.)

[quote] What sense does that make?

Ask the person who writes his cue cards and teleprompter script. At this stage of his life Joe is just a muppet.

They have rights already, since they are human.

But they want women's rights.

They also want free hormones, plastic surgery, mastectomies, and the option (although 98% of them will not take it) of getting bottom surgery and fake vaginas/penises. They want paid time off from work to do any of these things, and they want the ability to sue for free if anyone stands in their way.

They want hate-crime laws against being misgendered or made fun of in any way, shape or form. They want doctors and psychologists banned from doing anything but providing referrals to gender therapy clinics. They want no documents in existence to refer to their "dead name" or their former gender (or actual sex).

And if it becomes possible to transplant uteruses out of women, they want that too.

Oh, and they also want you to donate to their GoFundMe "to escape a harmful and transphobic home situation" if anyone in their family disagrees with their choices.

Bette Midler and Macy Gray are the two smartest people in the room right now, in addition to being the two smartest WOMEN.

[quote]The condescension and ageism in many of the replies is off the charts, too. "Oh, she's just a clueless old person who needs to be reeducated!"

Pretty much what they said about MARTINA, for Chrissake.

I'm a gay man and I find Martina to be one of the absolute heroes of the modern LGB movement.

What's Martina's stance on the trans?

It's sad that Bette has been reduced to competing on the new season of DWTS. I guess to promote Hocus Pocus 2 also on Disney+.

R148 she thinks they have a right to live as they see fit but without infringing upon womens' rights or erasing women.

R149 I think Bette would consider that fun, rather than something embarrassing.

Brava, Martina! I love that brave bitch.

[quote] Bette has been reduced to competing on the new season of DWTS

I can just imagine.

I don't understand why TERF is a bad thing. Biologically, transwomen are not women. If you're a radical feminist and you think that biological sex matters, then you're a TERF. So what? Radical feminism has been around for decades. It used to be that gender meant "socially constructed ideas about biological sex." Now gender appears to mean "personal belief about whether you're a man or a woman." I am SO GLAD I left academia before this nonsense became mainstream.

Martina has been very outspoken in the need for women's sports to be for biological women.

That ridiculous Irish drag queen with a fake doctorate was immediately there to inform Bette that her opinion was wrongthink.

No she didn't r23, she did a cover decades ago of the Lennon/Ono song "Woman is the N••••• of The World". Women of all races and ethnicities and religions are 4th class citizens across the world.

Why are trans women ashamed of being trans women?

She’s not a radical feminist so she can’t be a TERF.

[quote] Why are trans women ashamed of being trans women?

Because we are WOMEN!!!! We are BIOLOGICAL WOMEN!!!

The literal violence of your question. LITERAL. VIOLENCE.

I see Roxanne Gay has weighed (hee) in:

"No one is trying to erase women with inclusive language about people who need abortion care. No one is calling you anything but what you prefer. You should extend that courtesy in return."

Twitter has destroyed society. It is one of the LEAST used social media apps and it is given far too much credence. If 4 people are tweeting about a topic, it’s “trending”. The tiny Twitterverse is the reason Repukes will wipe their asses with us in the midterms. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize and reject insanity.

The attacks on Martina are particularly awkward because she's friends with, and was even briefly coached by, Renee Richards. Richards was a middle-aged trans woman who played against elite women in the prime of their careers.

Richards came to the conclusion, as both an athlete and physician, that male puberty is an unfair advantage if one's competitors all went through female puberty. The women she played against, many of them significantly younger than she was, generally came to the same conclusion. Shitting on Martina, despite her firsthand experience as a player who befriended, supported and worked with Richards many decades ago, takes enormous balls.

Jaclyn Moore, who dramatically quit Twitter a while back because it was so hard to be trans on Twitter, came back to badmouth Bette. Oh, and to publish a few hideous photos of xirself at something called the "Bondage Ball."

Has Ken Wahl commented?

[quote]The tiny Twitterverse is the reason Repukes will wipe their asses with us in the midterms.

STFU.

[quote]No one is calling you anything but what you prefer. You should extend that courtesy in return.

But some women prefer to be called women, and some people very consciously and discourteously exclude that term from their "inclusive" language.

[quote]But some women prefer to be called women, and some people very consciously and discourteously exclude that term from their "inclusive" language.

And some people prefer NOT to be called "cis," but that never makes the "inclusive" cut either.

"Cis" makes me want to take a hostage.

Hello!

R165 Bette has responded to the T Army here

Recent reports said that Piers was paying people to go on his show, because the ratings were so abysmal. My suspicion is that Macy Gray did it as much for the money, as she did for the ideological aspect of an appearance.

[quote]The tiny Twitterverse is the reason Repukes will wipe their asses with us in the midterms. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize and reject insanity.

Reject insanity by voting for Republicans because of Twitter?

I don't think most of you realize how you sound.

Now I love her even more!

"The Boogie Woogie Bugle Penised Person From Company B"

[quote] My suspicion is that Macy Gray did it as much for the money, as she did for the ideological aspect of an appearance.

oh wow. How much do you "suspect" Piers has to pay to get a celebrity to expose themselves to the inevitable abuse of the tranny twitter lynch mob.

Don't forget to call her a Putin stooge while you are at it

I blame Carole King for a lot of this gender-bending business.

Excellent video at R110.

The video at R59 is typical of Les Trans - take one of the best songs of the 80s, pure sex and fun, and turn in into humorless narcissistic preening. I almost feel sorry for these hectoring bores.

[quote]Brava, Martina! I love that brave bitch.

Me too. Although this article comes with a hideous bias, it gives a good overview of Martina's comments and her op-ed. She's tried to keep the conversation open, without ever backing down.

Of course the trans terrorists don't allow that. Martina has been disinvited and disowned by most all GAY and LGBT organizations as a result. And rejected by many so called modern feminists too. She is, indeed brave. But sometimes it just takes a hard head, ya know.

If it doesn't make sense, it can't be true. It's a great article if you don't really know how involved Martina has been in the discussion and how adamant she has been. She doesn't even get to be a hero for OUR own people. She's been labelled a TERF and mostly blacklisted. It's so fucked up.

So yes, Bette is brave too. She knew what she was saying in that tweet. It is time to make some distinctions.

There's a new acronym floating around:

WERT

Women Exclusionary Radical Trans

Martina was out in the 80s when that was a truly brave thing to do. She risked her entire career, and she definitely lost a fortune in endorsements.

Martina was sue to attend Wimbledon this weekend for the centenary celebrations for Centre Court. She planned to take JK Rowling as her guest but Martina got Covid.

Not sure what the person saying Piers is 'having to pay people to go on his show' is about, but it's pretty typical for talk shoes and news shows to pay people something to appear. This isn't unusual and doesn't mean that a show is having issues finding guests if they do, because almost all of them do it to some degree.

I'm not a fan of Piers but that sounded more like wishful thinking than reality.

And from her later tweets, Macy knew exactly what she was saying, and has the language around the issue down pat. She isn't a novice or confused old person here.

Two of them back to back! The TRAs are mad with anger about it, continuing from that article being published this Sunday. And all their overreaction and behavior just makes them look nuts and/or ridiculous. The era of "no debate" is ending.

Yeah, I saw this response from Macy Gray to someone coming for her.....

'the truth hurts'

R161, hehe, I was coming here to point out the same thing too. Plus, when looking into it further, I see Roxane has a history of getting exhausted by Bette.

I've never really warmed to Bette that much, to be honest, but this statement of hers I'm going to quote below has a point. People getting angry about this are looking at it from an America-centric point of view, but if you think of it globally, well, it seems to me that however ugly the language John Lennon and Yoko Ono used in that song title of theirs, well, what they meant behind it is born out by not just history but current events too.

[quote]She also tried to say women had it worse than black people a couple of years back and got her ass royally handed to her.

It looks like an earnest gay in Britain tried to get Macy cancelled from a Mighty Hoopla festival gig.

Someone went through his account and found loads of offensive tweets about "trannys" which is often the way.

He's now locked his account.

Bette Midler is right.

It makes me SO angry that the tranny loons DARE to come after a real icon and fighter for LGB rights such as Martina Navratilova!!! I read the hideous article at R180 (many thanks!) and am appalled at the way these TRAs have repeatedly twisted her words beyond recognition to make their argument against her seem rational.

Also, is it just me, or are the TRAs getting an angry boner every time they manage to bully some absolutely nice person and ally into a humiliating apology and a promise that they will "shut up"? If I wasn't a TERF before, I certainly am now that I have read that they did this to Martina, a fighter they should feel honoured to kiss the feet of. More proof that the T is neither a part, nor an ally of the LGB. A Trojan horse we need to unite against!

I agree with Bette, women of all colors have it worse than black people. Until 1974, women could not have a credit card without a male co-signer, women were not allowed to vote until 1920, longer after black men were given the right to vote. I don’t even want to get into women’s rights in Islamic counties. We had a black male president, no female president yet because misogyny > racism. The number of women killed daily by their domestic partners or male family members is astronomical, black men are not killed at the same rate by white people. Currently, in the US hospitals allow medical students to perform pelvic exams on unconscious women without prior authorization. Well, I could go on.

[quote]It makes me SO angry that the tranny loons DARE to come after a real icon and fighter for LGB rights such as Martina Navratilova!!! I read the hideous article at [R180] (many thanks!) and am appalled at the way these TRAs have repeatedly twisted her words beyond recognition to make their argument against her seem rational.

When you realise gender ideology is a religion where heretics must be crushed then it all makes sense.

JK Rowling, Martina, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie are all heretics.

R190, don't forget the hideous mutilations and abuse billions of women were forced to endure historically, for example in China.

R112 proves that the garbage about Soros ratting out Jews during the war is fabricated garbage, by fabricating a complete lie that isn't even relevant to the situation in Hungary.

I am convinced that it's actually the Rethugs who are secretly supporting and financing the trans movement in order to implode the LGBT from the inside, not to mention to drag the Dems down.

You think the Rethugs are paying the Democrats to erase the word woman and say "pregnant people" instead?

The trans shit exists in other countries too, mostly imported from the US. Are the idiot "be kind, transwomen are women" politicians in European countries also being paid by the Republicans too?

If anything imploded the LGB, it's the addition of the T.

R194 Obviously and it’s wealthy repig trannies like Jennifer Pritzker behind it. $$$$ is behind it ultimately in every other country.

I wonder if Disney will twist her elbow into making an apology. Something about going on a journey to educate herself and be a better person, the usual PR guff....

Money always comes first!

You're very naive r196 if you think this whole trans lunacy thing is just a conspiracy that a rich man paid for, in every country too.

Disney would be idiots to force her to apologize since only a small minority doesn’t agree with her. I assume they want to make money.

Imagine the promo for Hocus Pocus 2

"So, Sarah Jessica, your show And Just Like That made a point of being diverse and inclusive to the LGBTQIANB+ community with characters like Che Diaz. Reading Bette Midler's transphobic tweets about the word women must have been a shock to you. So I have to ask you, what do you think of Kim Cattrall's performance in the new series Queer As Folk and what are your plans for Samantha in the new series?"

People who interpet it that way, r186, are bad-faith trolls. It's like the Twitter school of accusations, "oh, so you think (thing that no sane person would think)???? Bigot!"

Are they including Hocus Pocus 2 as a subscriber movie or will people be expected to pay extra for it?

R200 "Sarah, In Hocus Pocus 2, your character gives a moving five-minute soliloquy on protecting trans women from violence, as your elder sister prepares to drain the souls of all the children in Salem to make herself live forever. Was it true this was inserted at your suggestion, and you wrote some of the words yourself? Also, what do you think of Kim's response that 'anyone who is still stuck on this Sex and the City shit needs to get a life and move on?"

R190 you're agreeing with someone's bad-faith interpretation of what Bette actually meant? Mmmk.

She still hasn’t deleted the post. BRAVO!

R193 common right wing tactic, go directly after the most sacrosanct parts of whoever you're attacking - in this case Soros's jewishness, thus rendering it a liability. Like John Kerry's war record and purple heart got Swiftboated.

R194 Can't you ever admit that the Dems have done stupid shit?

Why blame Republicans for what Democrats are front and center pushing 24/7? It's not Scott Baio lecturing the masses from the mountain about the great Trans god.

Has Martina ever explained why she supported Renee Richards joining the tour but is against the inclusion of trans women today? This is a completely disinterested question; I’m just looking for information.

Direct link to Bette’s Tweet for easy checking

R179: agreed!

Here’s the original, before it got all ‘woke’ and lost its sense of fun

Part of why Martina changed her mind was that Renee Richards was such an anomaly. She was one woman, in her early forties; the damage she could inflict on a GOAT (greatest of all-time) in her prime like Martina was minimal.

Now you have a far greater number of potential athletes transitioning at early ages. Renee believes that if she'd transitioned in her early twenties, she would've dominated tennis and won Slams. Martina's aware of that and seems inclined to agree.

Sexual equality in sport is only something that happened in the 2000s.

Many Olympic sports weren't available to women. When pole vaulting was introduced in the year 2000 the gold medal winning woman jumped well below Bruce Jenner's 1976 decathlon height, and Jenner wasn't a specialist in that field. Women's weightlifting was introduced in 2000 Lauren Hubbard was around the same age as the women competing. In 2021 Hubbard was twice the age of the women competing, and remains older than every single gold medalist in the heavyweight category.

Wimbledon didn't introduce equal prize money for women until 2007, when Venus Williams won her 4th title, with Serena having won the tournament twice. That's how recent it is.

I don't understand rich celebrities who live on Twitter all day. I'd be busy traveling, going on yachts, horseback riding, eating out and enjoying my money.

Most don't, r213. It's just they have so many followers that a single tweet (or handful of tweets) from them get amplified to huge amounts.

I am thankful for Bette using her celebrity status to publicly speak the truth.

India Willoughby, the mentally unstable British tv presenter, is alleging that Bette's statement is part a Mossad plot straight out of the Roy Cohn playbook.

Motherfucker, I don't know who this India person is, but the sheer LANGUAGE of that tweet...! These people are beyond insane.

India used to be Jonathan

Btw whenever I hear the name ‘India’ I get this sense of a rather posh upperclass girl into horses and hockey, which is probably just an illusion on my part

[quote]Not sure what the person saying Piers is 'having to pay people to go on his show' is about, but it's pretty typical for talk shoes and news shows to pay people something to appear. This isn't unusual and doesn't mean that a show is having issues finding guests

We had a whole thread on it, and there were news articles on it. Simply saying it's not true doesn't make it so. Now you just look stupid.

You've been trying to get the newbie trolls on here to be less obvious about their anti-semitism, but you're not very good at trolling, and certainly not good enough to be acting like an elder statesman who can teach others the fine art of trolling.

[quote]I've seen estimates that each new trans person is worth $1.3 million to the pharmaceutical companies, over the trans persons' lifetime.

Post a link, and make sure to also post a reference to how much a non-trans person is "worth," in terms of medical profits in their lifetime, as comparison.

I don't think you've seen estimates from any legitimate source, and even if you have, I don't think you've seen that estimate compared to what others are "worth" in terms of profits. It's highly likely that there are numerous types of patients who will generate large profits for pharmaceutical companies.

R219 Late night talk shows in the U.S. (Kimmel, Fallon etc) pay guests $1,000 to show up. Why should Piers's show be any different? I know you hate him but if you're going to attack him for his show doing what every other show does then get pissed at every other show (and its host) as well otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

That's the problem with the modern day left. They go all "J'ACCUSE!" when someone on the other side of the political aisle does something but ignore it (or make excuses for it) when their side does the exact same thing. If you're going to be outraged by something, be outraged when everyone does it. Not only when the other side does it. Nobody likes a hypocritical cunt.

I'm really bothered by how the word fascist has been watered down to mean 'anything I don't like.'

Trump trying to institute a coup on the United States government is fascist. Bette Midler on twitter talking about the erasure of the word 'woman' is decidedly NOT (even if you disagree with the sentiment.)

R220 Not the person you're trying to pick a fight with but Google is your friend. Here are some of the costs that trans people have in regard to surgeries and hormones.

4 years ago.

India seems like a cool chick sometimes and other times she comes off totally deranged. She'd be a punish to have as a friend or to deal with on a daily basis.

India is not a cool chick.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Of course he’s a gay man.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Sorry I didn’t see r227. Pardon

Harrop and his trans-pushing ilk are like the Jews leading the other Jews onto the trains for a one-way trip to the gas chambers.

A good day to ensure I've bought Macy Gray's entire back catalogue': JK Rowling supports singer

[quote] Late night talk shows in the U.S. (Kimmel, Fallon etc) pay guests $1,000 to show up. Why should Piers's show be any different?

First of all, union rules require that most guests get paid scale.

Second of all, Piers's ratings are nonexistent so he HAS to pay people to be on his show. And he probably has to sweeten the pot by paying far above scale. Otherwise, why waste your time on a show nobody will watch?

How is she not completely and 100% correct?

"HPV in Vulva Owners"

Good god I hadn't seen that one before

Oh yes. It's only ever the word woman. It's also only ever women's identity, women's spaces, women's rights and women's achievements. Notice how no trans men are clamouring to compete in men's sports. Why? I thought they viciously defended the theory that, once the correct hormone levels are reached, the trans person is indistinguishable from their target sex. Why then are there no trans men winning medals in men's sports? Why is it always trans women in female sports? Correct, because FTM are WOMEN with women's bodies, and MTF are MEN. And they fucking know it.

Bette hasn’t been a birthing person and ‘menstruator’ since when? Reagan was President?

I wonder if this could cost her DWTS? (Unless those seasons are pre-filmed.)

Quite the question. If you aren't a birthing person or a menstruator, what shall we call you? Just shows how insane this is.

Greg (Black Conservative Perspective) having fun with Trevor Noah simping for Rhys/Rachel McKinnon aka Veronica Ivy/PedoHusbandLastName.

Noah just falls all over Ivy's and kisses his ass. Noah is just an embarrassing whore protecting his wallet.

White Male pulls the race card. LMAO.

Can you imagine giving this fool a platform

It's interesting that she's parroting - almost word for word - this super fucking stupid Times Op-Ed.

If menstruator, birthing parent, chest feeder, vulva owner and person with a cervix are acceptable terms, what are the gender neutral terms for someone:

1. who has a low sperm count and is infertile

2. needs to use Viagra because their penis can't get hard

3. experiences premature ejaculation

4. is diagnosed with testicular cancer

5. is diagnosed with prostate cancer

Why the fuck is Veronica Ivy being put on TV and given a platform?

The Times Op Ed has signaled sanity is back.

This sort of reminds me of the 70s when hacky comedians made a whole career out of mocking the use of "administrative assistant" instead of "secretary" and people lost their minds when feminists insisted on being called "Ms" and the Times refused to put a period after it because it's not an abbreviation.

By the way, this was the cover of The Lancet in September 2021 which referred to women as "bodies with vaginas".

When they cover male health it's quite different:

August 2021:We did a prospective, population-based, randomised, open-label, non-inferiority trial (STHLM3-MRI) in Stockholm county, Sweden. Men aged 50–74 years were randomly selected

January 2022: Improving outcomes of men with incurable prostate cancer

April 2022: The trial enrolled 1173 male patients (aged ≥18 years, across Belgium, France, Ireland, Italy, Romania, Spain, and Switzerland) with synchronous (de novo) metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer who received ADT

R244, it's a start. Long way to go.

R245, not quite because there were male secretaries, and they were called "secretary". Ahem, also Secretary of Defense et al. Supplanting the word secretary had more to do with the status of the position and the misuse of the word secretary - i.e., typists, file clerks. A real secretary had meaningful duties as support for an executive.

In the old days. my mother was the secretary to one of the VPs at the Emigrants Savings Bank in NYC. She had clerical people under her. When she was promoted, she moved to Stocks and Bonds and not as a secretary.

Good. I will follow her. Fuck trans (aka incel misogynists)

It’s been fun watching the Twitter scorn for the Pamela Paul piece as just more transphobia from the NYT, which has now been retconned as Enemy No. I of the trans movement.

Regarding secretaries:

James Hacker : Who else is in this department?

Sir Humphrey Appleby : Well briefly, sir, I am the Permanent Under Secretary of State, known as the Permanent Secretary. Woolley here is your Principal Private Secretary, I too have a Principal Private Secretary and he is the Principal Private Secretary to the Permanent Secretary. Directly responsible to me are ten Deputy Secretaries, eighty-seven Under Secretaries and two hunddred and nineteen Assistant Secretaries. Directly responsible to the Principal Private Secretaries are plain Private Secretaries, and the Prime Minister will be appointing two Parliamentary Under-Secretaries and you will be appointing your own Parliamentary Private Secretary.

James Hacker : Do they all type?

Sir Humphrey Appleby : None of us can type, Minister. Mrs. McKay types. She's the secretary.

"Btw whenever I hear the name ‘India’ I get this sense of a rather posh upperclass girl into horses and hockey, which is probably just an illusion on my part" - I'm pretty sure that this was the look Jonathan was aiming for, r218.

[quote]R251 "Btw whenever I hear the name ‘India’ I get this sense of a rather posh upperclass girl into horses and hockey“

There is only one India.

When the repulsive troll Katie Hopkins used to get attention for making controversial statements and being invited on TV to discuss them, she was invited on to This Morning to explain why she wouldn't let her children be friends with children called Chardonnay or Tyler.

She named her daughter India.

The tweet is still up. I feel like a kid on Christmas morning each time I check and it's still there. Nearly 93K likes now, too.

r254 Nice. Feels like we're reaching an inflection point when it comes to the worst excesses of the choo-choo movement. And about damn time, too.

I think this topic only really matters to those who need something to wring their hands about on Twitter, etc.

Why don’t they pull this shit on men? “prostate bearers” or “semen-ejaculators”?

R219 you are an insane nutjob who sees trolls and (insert random pejoratives) everywhere.

All that article says is that they're paying guests to appear, which does not contradict anything I wrote. They're trying to get a brand new show off the ground, hardly some sort of conspiracy.

And again, I personally do not like Piers, and I agree with the other poster who said he doesn't stand for anything, I'm sure in your mind that means I'm a secret antisemitic bigot (???) somehow.

R220 I posted information on it later about where that figure came from.

You seem like you're getting caught up on the thread. Good for you! Now keep going. Although you've made it quite clear what you are here for.

Interesting that your appearance on the thread coincides with a workday.

R237 someone already made that obvious remark earlier in the thread.

R241 would prefer women who don't read.

[quote]Bette hasn’t been a birthing person and ‘menstruator’ since when? Reagan was President?

So she's not allowed to have an opinion on this topic? Because of her age? You sound very intelligent.

R220 knows this already but I'll state it for the record:

It’s not just the medical industry; it’s all the lawyers, speakers, teachers, NGOs, fake charities, the 8 billion dollar plus diversity industry etc. Not that there’s anything wrong with diversity, but UK Stonewall is an example of the Shirky Principle:

“Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.”

Just like real estate, there’s a lot of money (and power) in cultural churn. Think of the endless changes to schoolbooks and “educational” materials. Every single kid they trans keeps the machine going. They need to keep moving the goalposts or the checks stop coming in.

R249 I thought the Guardian had become enemy number one for publishing a few articles saying "hey there might be a few items of concern here" among thousands in support? So hard to keep up.

The Guardian recently ran a ridiculous column by a male journalist who almost exclusively writes about male sport arguing that male trans athletes should compete against women because sport is unfair anyway.

Today they published a response from an expert that is essential reading.

Jonathan Liew points out that both biological sex and family support are sources of advantage in sport, and asks why they are treated differently (Nadine Dorries offers the illusion of easy choices while trans athletes pay the price, 28 June). There are two ways of taking this. He might mean that those who want to control for biological sex (with biological sex classes) should also control for family support, handicapping those with strong family support, for example. Perhaps we should put lead weights in Andy Murray’s trainers, because of the strong support he receives from his mother, Judy. Or he might mean that, since we do not control for family support, we should not control for biological sex. The first horn of this dilemma is absurd, so he must mean the second.

If Liew thinks that male advantage is unimportant for fairness, and that it should not count in the categorisation of sport, then he has a coherent argument. But it is an argument for the abolition of female sport.

Dr Jon Pike

The Open University

That's a good counterargument. The idea that because we can't control for every benefit someone might have means that obvious statistical differences between men and women - based on their sex alone - don't exist, is just silly.

R228 quite clear case of crazy eyes. Embarrassing that he's a gay man.

It also reminds me of the hacky comedians who made a career out of mocking the phrase "maintenance worker" rather than "janitor" or whatever.

It's basically always the people with zero power get attacked when they ask for simple language changes that affect nothing and no one and are free.

But the DL is made up of a bunch of irritable English assholes who hate on trans people for sport. It's weird.

I admittedly am fascinated with how there are so many prominent British gays who are such loud TRAs.

I can't think of any American equivalent to Owen Jones, Adrian Harrop, Benjamin Cohen or Benjamin Butterworth. Anyone?

"Bette hasn’t been a birthing person and ‘menstruator’ since when? Reagan was President?"

And yet she's still a woman and you still despise her for that very reason.

[quote]It's basically always the people with zero power get attacked when they ask for simple language changes that affect nothing and no one and are free.

So erasing the word 'women' in favor of 'persons with a vagina' affects nobody?

Another aspect of this is how the "gender inclusive" language alienates so many ordinary people from the cause of human rights for women, which they might otherwise support. By using strange, unfamiliar language, the left isolates itself from much of public opinion.

Anyone else love FOR THE BOYS?

[quote]Anyone else love FOR THE BOYS?

You realize, of course, that not all boys have penises.

I seem to remember everyone feeling very alienated and upset when feminists introduced "Ms." People HATED it.

Nobody seems to use Ms anymore. It seems to have died a natural death.

Sure they do. Maybe you should get out more.

The majority of the public agree with her. TRAs are stuck in their Twitter and Reddit echo chambers and are delusional about how supported their cause is, and that will lead to their downfall. Turning allies into enemies by saying anything but total acquiescence is transphobia has really fucked them. They're their own worst enemies.

A few more sports events where a grown man identifying as a woman beats young girls will destroy any leftover good will for the trans cause.

[quote]It's basically always the people with zero power get attacked when they ask for simple language changes that affect nothing and no one and are free.

This is fallacy, and a very dangerous one. Language is what shapes our perception of reality. Language forms the very basis of our symbolic thinking patterns. There are numerous serious studies of this phenomenon (see for ex. Saussure) but it's enough to point out the infamous Newspeak from Orwell's masterpiece to know what I'm talking about.

In changing how women are talked about, we change the way they are perceived (taken less seriously, perceived as alien and ludicrous and less human with terms such as "birthing bodies.") One simply cannot hijack the identity of half the population to apease a very vocal 1%. Also, why are you coming for just that half? Why are you never, ever attacking men and asking for THEIR language and privileges?

Also, to call the trans "people with zero power" when at the moment they are effectively holding the whole Western world hostage with their demands and hurt feelings, and online bullying campaigns, and cancel campains, is factually incorrect. Today, it's scary and brave, and dangerous, to say something AGAINST the trans, or even in mild argument with the trans, than to recite the pro-T catechism. But playing victim with beatific smiles on their rough faces is the trans tactic du jour. It oddly reminds me of medieval Catholics, I don't know why.

[quote] "Btw whenever I hear the name ‘India’ I get this sense of a rather posh upperclass girl into horses and hockey, which is probably just an illusion on my part"

My very first criminal client was named India. Drugs. I never thought posh, though. Nor horses nor hockey. Well, maybe Horse.

Excellent post, R280.

[quote] The suspect in the Highland Park, Ill., parade shooting planned the attack for weeks, and wore women’s clothing as a disguise to escape, officials said.

[R280] wins. I, as a liberal Democrat, agree.

Put the trans women-erasing language out in schools, and you'll have a generation perceiving the world as "men" and "others." Right at the time when real women's rights are being stripped away. If a group of people have no "title" (i.e. "women"), they won't be perceived as existing.

R240 Trevor Noah almost got twitter canceled just after he got the Daily Show gig in 2015 over perceived transphobic tweets . He was reeducated qickly .

Another person has been taken off twitter to protect Ellen Page.

[quote]Put the trans women-erasing language out in schools, and you'll have a generation perceiving the world as "men" and "others." Right at the time when real women's rights are being stripped away. If a group of people have no "title" (i.e. "women"), they won't be perceived as existing.

I found it quite chilling how Variety edited the words of one of Ezra Miller's victims.

[quote]“I think it’s just fun and games — but then it wasn’t,” she said. “All of a sudden, [they’re] on top of me, choking me, still screaming in my face if I want to fight. My friend who’s filming sees [they’re] obviously not joking and it’s actually serious, so he stops filming, and pushes [them] off me as [they’re] still trying to fight me. Two guy friends of mine are actually holding [Miller] back as [they’re] screaming, ‘This is what you wanted! This is what you wanted!’” (At the time of the interview, it was unclear whether the woman was aware Miller uses they/them pronouns.)

This is disgusting.

[quote]they are effectively holding the whole Western world hostage with their demands and hurt feelings

idiotic, pearl-clutching hysteria.

Is that why the entire British media put a bullseye on their backs?

Is that why the whole right-wing of the US seems to be obsessed with them? Because they're so powerful?

What a fucking stupid joke.

Any coherent arguments, R289? No?

What you wrote just comes across as the usual narcissistic self-victimization. "The ENTIRE British media", "the WHOLE right wing of the US", "obsessed"... Strong language for a group so tiny. If you are so powerless, then why are you talking about whole nations and institutions being obsessed with you? It's contradictory.

[quote]It also reminds me of the hacky comedians who made a career out of mocking the phrase "maintenance worker" rather than "janitor" or whatever. It's basically always the people with zero power get attacked when they ask for simple language changes that affect nothing and no one and are free.

Cool analogy.

We all remember the tantrums and outright death threats toward those who still used the word "janitor."

[quote] they are effectively holding the whole Western world hostage with their demands and hurt feelings

Generalizing it's more they are holding woke people hostage, and just annoying the rest

I love that the idea of trans people "are effectively holding the whole Western world hostage" is fine but saying the right-wing and the British media hate them is somehow hysteria.

Burning my copy of For The People With Penises.

Looks like the bullies got to Macy Gray. How exactly were here statements 'misunderstood?'

i got nothing but love for lgbt+ and transgender communities. i've been a supporter since day one and never a fake one. my statement on piers morgan was GROSSLY misunderstood. i respect everyone's right to be whoever they wana be.

There isn't a Silkwood shower hot enough to wash the slime off you after appearing on PIERS MORGAN.

R227 Hes a fucking psycho. He needs to be struck off.

Look what Rachel McKinnon was working on in 2018.

Does Early Executive Function Predict Teacher-Child Relationships from Kindergarten to Second Grade?

McKinnon, Rachel D.; Blair, Clancy

Developmental Psychology, Nov 2018

Teacher-child relationships have been linked to children's classroom engagement and to academic achievement. However, researchers have paid minimal attention to individual child factors that predict the development of these relationships.

Sponsor: Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) (NIH); National Institute on Drug Abuse (DHHS/PHS); Institute of Education Sciences (ED)

Authoring Institution: N/A

Identifiers - Location: Pennsylvania; North Carolina

Poor Macy Gray. What they must have done to her.

It's difficult to distinguish which group is more deranged; the actual trans brigade, or the ones who have fallen for the contrivance.

I don't have a Twitter account, but would love to see: "Make Stelazine Great Again" trending.

It's obvious (to most) that their meds cocktail needs adjustment.

This is how Sky News in Britain covered the Bette/Macy story

[quote]Bette Midler has sparked a backlash after saying cisgender women are being deprived of their basic rights, while JK Rowling has appeared to back "transphobic" comments by singer Macy Gray.

[quote]Cisgender means a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.

[quote]The Hollywood star tweeted: "WOMEN OF THE WORLD! We are being stripped of our rights over our bodies, our lives and even of our name!

[quote]"They don't call us "women" anymore; they call us "birthing people" or "menstruators", and even "people with vaginas"! Don't let them erase you! Every human on earth owes you!"

[quote]A prolific tweeter, with over two million followers, Midler's sentiment has led to a backlash on social media, with some fans telling her to "do better".

Doesn't this show how indoctrinated the media is when they could easily covered the story as

[quote]Bette Midler drew support from feminists after saying women are being deprived of their basic rights following the Supreme Court ruling on abortion while JK Rowling has appeared to back feminist comments by singer Macy Gray.

[quote]Trans rights campaigners have campaigned to for gender neutral terms to be used when discussing reproductive health, so "mother" becomes "birthing parent" and women who have periods are described as "menstruators".

[quote]The Hollywood star tweeted: "WOMEN OF THE WORLD! We are being stripped of our rights over our bodies, our lives and even of our name!

[quote]"They don't call us "women" anymore; they call us "birthing people" or "menstruators", and even "people with vaginas"! Don't let them erase you! Every human on earth owes you!"

[quote]A prolific tweeter, with over two million followers, Midler's sentiment has led to an outpouring of support from women with one tweeting "Bette Midler has, no doubt, fought sexism for decades but has never stepped on a landmine like this. Stay strong Bette".

Bette is spot on.

How long did women's rights have its day in the sun? Remember women's liberation? It perhaps had a decade - maybe. Ten years..... Just that...

- before other minority rights followed rushing up .... an avalanche of cultural theory and cultural studies... the latest iteration being this trans cis business... And the supreme court ruling on roe v wade....

And women are erased and oppressed all over again... Truly, Gore Vidal was right... Women are the least and last served minority...

There is no "story" here. Or maybe, there is only in the "junior high school gossip tree" sense.

[quote]Another person has been taken off twitter to protect Ellen Page.

Good. Whatever it took. Dave Rubin is a self-loathing gay right-winger and a complete moron.

Gore Vidal was right... Women are the least and last served minority...

Pity so much of that was self-inflicted

Its interesting that Roxanne Gay and her fellow trans defenders are pretending that there's nothing to see here--that there's been no attempt to remove the word "women" when discussing reproductive issues and, thus, women as a biological class. But, anyone who's wondered around Trans Twitter knows that this exactly what's been done with terms like "uterus carriers" and "pregnant people."

Which says to me that they all know that they know they're on the losing side on this one. They're doing the reflective defend-all-things-trans, but they're sure as hell not going to go out of their way to "correct" anyone who talks about "women's" rights being under siege after the repeal of Roe v. Wade.

Bette will not be losing her DWTS spot over saying women are women. Because the vast majority of people agree with her.

She'll lose her DWTS spot when she breaks her hip because he's 82.

Bette Midler just was a Kennedy Centre Honoree. She will NOT ever be appearing on DWTS. Stop the fuckery.

Alas, it's not just Twitter. The same shit goes on woke Facebook too, where calling a man a man will win you a ban, and on Insta. Also on the platforms of every LGBTQ advocate group that I know, and I'm from puny, backwards Bulgaria. Can't imagine what's the climate in the UK and USA.

This is just beyond ridiculous now.

I've recently heard two pro-choice advocates (women) who prefaced their remarks with "I'm going to use inclusive language" to indicate that they will most certainly NOT use the term women. And they don't.

You guys do realize you can lead a full and active life and not have Twitter or Insta or Facebook? Like it's not required of you? And even if you do have them, you can just sort of ignore the parts you don't like?

Ignoring what's happening in the world never worked very well for anyone, R312. See: ostriches.

[quote] Cisgender means a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.

Wait . . . so there is a "birth sex" after all. LMAO.

[quote]Bette Midler just was a Kennedy Centre Honoree. She will NOT ever be appearing on DWTS. Stop the fuckery.

Based on the comments made here I thought she was scheduled to appear to do a performance of something or other, not as a celebrity contestant.

TERF and TERF -- what is TERF??!

R288, that is fucking sickening. He was raping her but they are more worried about his pronouns.

I wondered on one of the Highland Park shooter threads how the media would react if this piece of shit who dressed as a woman to blend into the crowd and escape proclaimed himself a woman. I think we all know. The first female mass shooter would be born. Fucking psychos.

And, to whomever upthread said something about all of us giving too much credence and assigning too much importance to what is said on Twitter because it's such a small community...the problem is that that very small community is amplified because lazy journalists find it easy to find quotes. Therefore, it has a very strong and disporportionate effect on the general societal discourse on any given subject.

Go Bette! Go Martina! Go JK!

Excuse me if I don’t take this sudden, supposed “concern for women” seriously on a site that most often refers to them as “fraus” and “stinkfish”.

R318, the transtapo is also anti-gay, so there's a shared interest for now.

R318 No. Most old queens here on DL refer to women as cunts and Karens. Then they have the nerve to turn around and call other people incels.

Stop trying to change the subject.

Go Bette!!!

Gay men and Cis women are who must be erased for the trastapo to achieve all their goals. Lesbians of course are Cis (biological) women. They are the MOST persecuted. All of us should care.

Twitter is not a small community. Some idiots on Datalounge like to believe that. Every important person, business and brand in the world are on Twitter. Nobody quotes facebook or Instagram posts. Twitter is the hub. Ignore it at your peril.

Go Bette!!

I've already thank and retweeted her. Those 'likes' matter on tweets like hers.❤

*TRANSTAPO

Bette is correct in this regard. But it's a case of stopped clock syndrome with her. Being right every now and then doesn't eliminate the bigoted unhinged shit she posts the other 99% of the time. Bette pretending to be a feminist when she attacks in the most vile ways any woman who she disagrees with politically or socially is hilarious. Yeah, she really cares about women when she's calling Ariana Grande a whore or going on about Melania Trump's pussy juice on car seats. Give me a break.

She hates women as much as the trans brigade of incels.

^ liar ^

R253, that was so hilarious. She literally said that she wouldn't let her children play with other children who had "geographic names" and Philip just quietly shot back: "Your child's called 'India'" and boy did she flounder then, haha!

[quote]Nobody seems to use Ms anymore. It seems to have died a natural death.

The complete opposite. It's become standard now, unless a woman specifically wants to be called Mrs and asks to, Ms has become the default. Which is much easier for a start when addressing something to a woman whose marital status you don't know and is really a great thing - why should women be defined by their marital status, anyway? I can imagine it must've been a controversy in the day, but I've only really grown up with Ms as the default term, so it doesn't seem weird to me at all, and in fact, I would say is preferable.

I've had to abandon my Twitter feed for the foreseeable future; there's way too much screaming about what Bette said. Anyone calling women "birthing people" needs a punch in the face. Christ. This is why the country is going down the shitter.

As an eldergay, I know jack shit about women's reproductive systems but I assume she is talking about transmen as transwomen have dicks and can't get pregnant. Duh. Don't transmen have to take testosterone to transition and doesn't testosterone prevent them from ovulating? So how do they get pregnant? Cheat and not take the hormones that make them virile even if dickless?

R325 What did I lie about, hon? Be specific.

R324, surely you are aware that people are allowed to disagree with and even dislike specific women and STILL be feminists?

R330 Nine times out of ten, whenever Bette refers to another woman, it's in a derogatory way. She's no feminist. She's an "I gots mine, fuck the rest of you!" type.

The demonization of Bette has already begun. Every new post will have someone griping about it, and all her old posts will be combed over in attempts to cancel her.

This wasn't necessary. Still like the original post that caused the firestorm, though.

R328 they stop taking them. It takes awhile for them to sterilize someone (if they do) so they quit taking them to have their crotch spawn and then start taking it again. Of course don't expect them to breastfeed.

The demonization of Bette started when she told Larry King she doesn't believe in gay marriage because gay men are too slutty like the fags she made money off in the bath houses.

R333 Another day, more bigotry from "woke" Midler.

I assume she's saying that they are implementing the same type of control over women that Islam does. Of course there will be people freaking out that she's attacking Muslims or something, but... That's their religion, they can't really argue about the facts. The men control the women to varying degrees even when they're living in western countries. It's in their holy book to do so and the men do it with relish.

It's not bigotry if it's true. You may not like the comparison because it makes you uncomfortable, but it doesn't mean she's wrong.

The TRAs are spitting venom at Bette already. No surprises here.

R335 she has a history of making casual jokes about serious subjects.

R339

The TRAs are deluded if they think they can bully everyone into silence. It can only continue for so long and their ideology is so flimsy and not based in facts.

R340 careful GAP Playlists troll, you've been red-tagged for that nonsense before.

[quote]It's not bigotry if it's true. You may not like the comparison because it makes you uncomfortable, but it doesn't mean she's wrong.

Yeah, I said above that I don't really like Midler, never really have. But she's not wrong with that Supreme Court picture. The US isn't meant to be a theocracy but it's sure behaving more and more like it each day.

r340 should've been aborted

When they feel cornered they lash out with stuff like this and it makes them look even more insane. You can tell the level of fury they must be feeling at not being able to shut down everyone like they have been. Power is a drug and their supply has been tainted.

Why would anyone on earth and beyond give two shits what "India Willoughby" thinks about anything?

R346 no one sane does, but he is one of the major voices you see all over Twitter (along with Katy Montgomerie) scolding and threatening everyone. Oh, and reporting people, too. Between the two of them they have gotten more accounts suspended or banned than any group of Twitter support people.

It's insane drivel r345, but no way India wrote that. That's just not how he sounds (and he doesn't pretend to be intellectual. It's also in American spelling, which makes it even more hilarious that he stole it from somewhere and is now trying to pass it off as his own.

R348 he posted it, I don't know its origin other than that, but it is an example of what they are saying. I didn't claim he wrote it.

I'm trying to figure out of that is supposed to be Willoughby's writing in her post. Is it from some article she or someone else wrote?

Is "India" a he, she, or they? The last several posts are confusing.

Like the fact that he thinks it's a good argument shows you THE UNHINGED RAGE.

Even though Macy Gray dialed back her comments somewhat, India said it was TOO LATE and all Macy's future bookings would be protested, she would be shunned and banned from humanity, and her future career prospects, bookings, as well as past earnings would go away and she would be penniless, drunk, and die in a ditch.

(I'm paraphrasing/exaggerating a smidgeon but he was not happy!)

R351 India is a trans-identified male.

R344 r352 r353

OMG r345! That India bitch is CRAY CRAY!

India Willoughby is a man who became a trans woman.

You guys realise the only way this ends is with a cis female martyr right?

If history is any guide JK or another high profile feminist will eventually meet a Dana Rivers type and get murdered.

Which begs the question. If a man in a dress killed JK Rowling tomorrow how would the media frame it?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Their whole existence depends on gay men and women supporting them. I wish we could wake up the gen z and millennial braindead gays. They’re the most homophobic people around and they get especially nasty when a wise gay person doesn’t support them and lets it be known. They fee entitled to gays riding for them.

[quote]she has a history of making casual jokes about serious subjects.

How DARE she!?!

I still cannot believe Stonewall and GLAAD and HRC all changed the definition of homosexuality to "same gender attraction". That is the most homophobic shit right there.

R361 there are some obnoxious, younger Millennial/Zoomer prudes on here who CANNOT abide laughter of any type about a vast list of protected (to them) subjects. I'm shocked they have not fled the DL in tears by now, but they seem to enjoy scolding too much.

Yup, r363, that Puritan streak never dies. It just mutates and finds new hosts.

And of course, Bette Midler is not here for the humorless. It's just not a relationship that is ever going to work out.

There's a new book coming out called "The New Puritans" and it seems like it will describe people over the last decade and a half quite accurately.

A man in a dress who cut off his genitals gets to threaten a black woman for no sane reason. And he’s the one supported by the cultural elites. Bring on the meteor.

LISTEN 👏 TO 👏 BLACK 👏 WOMEN

Wasn't that what they were saying five minutes prior

I have been banned from Twitter twice.

The first time was for saying something slightly sarcastic in response to Chrissy Teigen. Nothing about her miscarriages - it was long before that. Her followers are powerful. How DARE I point out.... ?

The second time was when I made positive comments about Harry Styles wearing that dress with a blazer on the cover of Vogue. Charlotte Clymer responded to criticize about him taking up Trans spaces when he had no right to them. Something like that. My little tweet had about 2 thousand complaints in less than 10 minutes and I was banned for a week for hateful speech and discriminatory language.

Who cares?

My point is that Bette has guts.

Bravo Bette Midler!

R368 I can't stand Elon Musk but I really hope he removes the rule that they have been using like a weapon against everyone for so long. The high-level person in this video being confronted is the one who implemented it, based on debunked claims about suicidality. (I am not a right winger but this interview caught my eye).

Guts, but also money and fame. Like JK Rowling, she is one of the people who can actually ride this out if she feels like it. She is being more apologetic than she needs to be right now, but I hope she at least keeps the fundamental truth that this is about women's rights, not "birthing machines" or whatever fuckery the twittertwats want to substitute.

They want the traditional groveling apology from Macy, so they can sullenly and BRAVELY say that it's not good enough and she has a LONG road ahead of her to redeem herself before they will even consider forgiving her a bit, assuming she means it, and many will say she doesn't and the damage has already been done, thousands of deaths were already caused, etc.

The language in the apology will be heavily scrutinized, she will be condemned for not saying something more or not mentioning some group she directly harmed, and she will also be expected to give a large amount of her fortune to trans causes immediately. And they still won't "forgive" her.

It's a no-win game. The only real way to deal with it is to ride it out and not back down.

I hope they stand their ground.

I didn't see an apology from Midler, just an explanation, same as Rowling has done.

R369 Quit posting that Joe Rogan shit.

Look at R374 stamping her little fascist foot like Shirley Temple and giving us a little scowl. So cute!

Bette dug herself in deeper with this series of tweets. Her praise of the NYT editorial will make them not read anything else she says after the fact. Of course 99% of them will not have read it.

Hopefully now she will step back for a bit and let it play out.

---

PEOPLE OF THE WORLD! My tweet about women was a response to this fascinating and well written piece in the NYT on July 3rd. (Link to the piece). There was no intention of anything exclusionary or transphobic in what I said; it wasn’t about that.

It was about the same old shit women – ALL WOMEN – have been putting up with since the cavemen. Even then, men got top billing. But seriously, folks, if anyone who read that tweet thinks I have anything but love for any marginalized people, go to Wikipedia and type in my name.

I’ve fought for marginalized people for as long as I can remember. Still, if you want to dismiss my 60 years of proven love and concern over a tweet that accidentally angered the very people I have always supported and adored, so be it.

But the truth is, Democracy is slipping through our fingers! I’m all in on trying to save Democracy for ALL PEOPLE. We must unite, because, in case you haven’t been paying attention, divided we will definitely fall.

R374 how about you not give me orders instead. Everything isn't black and white.

R375 eats Rogan’s shit

R377 finger’s himself while listening to Rogan

Oh no. She issued an apology. I was so hoping that she wouldn't back down this time. That made me sad. Won't these blood fiends ever have enough humiliation from their critics? Will they EVER engage in a rational debate? Ever?

[quote] I'm trying to figure out of that is supposed to be Willoughby's writing in her post. Is it from some article she or someone else wrote?

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.-

I am turning myself into the Terf Collective in the morning. I don't know how I slipped like that.

Willougby's writing in HIS post . . . . some article HE or someone else wrote.

R378 I've never listened to his podcast (and I'm not the one you're fighting with) but I'll assume shit eating is more your thing. That and lashing out at strangers.

Can someone post her apology? That Twitter post linking to the Times article is not an apology.

Poor Macy groveling.

But Rolling Stone won't accept her "clarification"

Burn the witch !

Bette didn't apologize, she explained her reasoning.

Macy didn't apologize either, but she qualified her words so much her original comment has been heavily diluted.

It is the rule of online apologies: They must be constantly demanded and never accepted.

R386. Yep. Just ask Isaiah Washington who was forced to grovel and then still got fired anyway.

Yeah see r371 for how an actual groveling and obsequious apology - what they are wanting - would go over.

Explaining your reasoning will not work on 97% of them but it will convince some who haven't really been paying attention and just heard the accusations without much context.

That thread from Bette is already filling up with manipulative scolds telling her how disappointed they are in her and how she just can't see how many people she's brutally murdered with her comments. Some will offer patronizing suggestions. And the rest will continue attacking her like they were before.

And the completely unreasonable reactions will cause some people - hopefully lots - to peak.

A Twitter gay (from the Hollywood Reporter) has already announced his verdict:

[quote]i muted bette milder and you can, too

[quote]i’ll still tell a terf to eat shit tho

They REALLY want to be able to watch Hocus Pocus 2 with their friends.

Lord, women standing up for women and their comments/tweets are called "hurtful".

Grow the fuck up.

It's sad what Rolling Stone has turned into. You got to love how they turned Macy Gray's comments -into LITERAL MURDER of trans women of color. It's like a cliche at this point.

They should be LISTENING 👏 TO 👏 BLACK 👏 WOMEN!

Bette did not apologize. But she did take that pointed bite out of her words. She reused the word WOMEN, most importantly. She defends herself without sounding too defensive. That's not easy and not much like her. Ha. I wish she wouldn't have. In a thread tweet no less. Weak sauce. But she's a literate woman, so it's a good non apology.

To direct people to look at her wikipedia page is something that a few DL members might do about Bette Midler too. That one Larry King interview. First, where's the lie? At the time, she was being both funny and observational. Gay marriage seemed a bit of an oxymoron. It's long since become a right. ONE that she now wants us ALL to be VERY concerned about losing. And protecting.

Second: Bette Midler loved gay men and her gay audiences all of her life. They were once her people. Not only her fans, but the people she enjoyed most in personal and professional life. She lost a lot of friends to AIDS and never stopped working and performing for the cause.

That should not be expected to be her only cause. She's a conservative kind of booky chick who has grown old. Married for a LONG time. One child. Very RICH.

It's not true that she doesn't love or respect other artists. She just has a different kind of celebrity than her actual sensitivities. That's the conflict. She's made it work professionally, but she's actually too private to speak much about her real friendships and influences.

r393 you're all over this thread praising Bette, which is ironic because you're the troll who usually calls gay men 'ancient white fags.'

Bette should make the offer to pay for the first 100 funerals of the Transfolx who commit Harakiri over her Twitter comment.

HUH?

You post insanity and HATE from multiple devices & different accounts ALL DAY LONG, erryday R394.

[quote]She's way before my time - but I ❤ her female BALLS!!

If you were really born in 1983 as you claim, Bette Midler was still a major star throughout your childhood and adolescence. You're old enough to remember her at her peak.

[quote]You post insanity and HATE from multiple devices & different accounts ALL DAY LONG, erryday [R394].

I'm not the one who screams "ancient white fags" at people and tells us to die of AIDS. That's insane and hateful and that's all on you.

R395 that's far too little. She must donate 90% of her past and future income to trans people's many GoFundMes DIRECTLY (don't go through the LGBTQIAU2S+ organizations, they might not see the money then) and then spend the rest of her life supporting and funding movies that have trans actors in all the roles, performing not as trans folx but as whatever sex they are claiming to be that day and wearing fabulous outfits, never being a bad guy or poor person, and all the GROSS box office from the movies going directly to trans folx.

She must erect Egyptian obelisks to each trans person she brutally murdered with her carelessness, and pay to fly any trans and their friends out for a week long stay at a five-star hotel near said memorial if they wish to pay their respects to any of the fallen.

Only then can the community BEGIN to heal.

NO, she must proclaim that the overturning of Roe vs. Wade is MORE devastating AND MORE harmful to trans people!!!!

R396 nails it.

R394 (who is also R397 and R398) is one of this site's most mentally ill trolls. A sick, pathetic waste of a human who simultaneously masturbates while posting asinine garbage here all day and night from different accounts. It adds nothing to the many conversations it inserts itself into. Block it for a better DL experience.

r401 is the ancient white fags troll on another account. Just give it up. We see you and your crazy bigoted ass.

.....

There is no Ancient White Fags troll. There is, however, a Troll Who Claims That Others Are The AWF Troll. He's stalkery, obnoxious and insanely repetitive, and loves to derail threads.

Bullshit r404. There should be no tolerance for the poster who calls others fags and uses other offensive language for gay men on this board. He does it constantly.

I have not met him, R405. The other one, however, is everywhere.

r406 then you haven't been on DL very long.

R405 is the same as R394, R397, and R398, blathering on taking both sides of the same issue. YAWN.

So he IS the troll accusing others of being the mysterious AWFT. Makes sense. Let's ignore him.

The Trans brigade is at war with women. Notice how they are not trying to erase the word "[bold]man[/bold]" ?

They go after the weakest groups.

Among many other reasons, strategic and inchoate - they don't go after the word 'man' because many of them are unwilling to give up male privilege AND they may one day want to reclaim it.

Caitlyn and Clymer are good examples of this.

"Vagina owners" is just vulgar.

R398 thanks for pointing it out. Of course he revealed himself immediately when you did, and then used multiple accounts to attack you in his usual manner but you can tell it's him when he gets mad. Which is quite easily. Now I can add the three to my blocklist.

More celebrities should follow Bette's example. This insanity needs to be called out. Not being allowed to use the word "woman" anymore is unbelievable.

Disney must be furious with her since Hocus Pocus 2 is coming out. One of Disney's top execs has a trans daughter and she is big on trans visibility.

So far this year, Bette has attacked new mothers, West Virginians and trans people. She is determined to destroy whatever career she has left.

I hope Bette and JK Rowling become besties.

R415 I think she'll be fine. Twitter is not real life. Also your "attacked" examples are all ridiculous hyperbole with that bad-faith interpretation Twitter is known for.

I think people tend to forget that Twitter is not real life, and most people have no use for it. Twitter is constantly referenced in news stories, entertainment stories etc. on a daily basis so it appears that it's much more widely used amongst the population than it really is.

I think Midler is willing to take risks. She's not Cher or Barbra. Bette is intelligent and voraciously informed.

[quote] It's sad what Rolling Stone has turned into. You got to love how they turned Macy Gray's comments -into LITERAL MURDER of trans women of color. It's like a cliche at this point.

That's exactly what they did. Un-be-fucking-lievable.

East Shit, Rolling Stone. Not half the magazine it was before.

Rolling Stone switched to doing that thing that Fortune did where they allow people to pay them to write stories and use their name, to build up their individual brands. It's some paid membership thing. They have their own paid writers too, but the "selling distribution and caché" model is in place.

Let's remember what a fucking wonderful weirdo she was. Ten Cents a Dance, fella.❤

Nobody is going to boycott Hocus Pocus 2 because some deranged trannies don't like Bette protecting the words "woman" and "women".

R422 they'll come up with some public excuse like "it wouldn't be useful to boycott since she's just one actor in it and the other actors are supporters" or something. But you're right, they will not boycott it since the gays have been wanting this movie for decades.

And then when it does come out and they post anything public about it, they'll be sure to insult Bette or say something negative about TERFs just to make sure no one thinks they are changing their mind!

Like how that guy linked in r389 was careful to add "I'll still punch a TERF" as a follow-up tweet, just in case someone might think from his just muting Bette instead of unfollowing and blocking meant he wasn't sticking to the company line.

[quote] Nobody is going to boycott Hocus Pocus 2

We'll see.

People Are Threatening To Boycott Hocus Pocus 2 After Bette Midler Made *Pro-Women* Comment

They love to threaten. It's what they do.

It will have as much impact on the movie as the ongoing boycott has had on Chick-fil-A. And THAT boycott at least made sense.

[quote] Rolling Stone switched to doing that thing that Fortune did where they allow people to pay them to write stories and use their name, to build up their individual brands. It's some paid membership thing. They have their own paid writers too, but the "selling distribution and caché" model is in place.

Thank you for reminding me of this, R420. Can you get any more whorish than this in "journalism"?

There's a reason the trans propaganda has been all over for years now with no questioning any of it. And I mean ALL OVER.

There is no hope for the future.

R425 I really wish they would stop making it all about trans in headlines, but they can't help themselves. Men and their feelings come first.

Bette's career will take a hit for sure. SJP must be losing her mind.😘

Buck Angel is an interesting, reality based trans man. Because he was born a woman - or just because he's evolved.

[quote]In pornography there is a trans woman category and a woman category. No one has ever tried to put them together. They know they are different. Same with trans men. So whats the actual problem?

[quote]People Are Threatening To Boycott Hocus Pocus 2 After Bette Midler Made *Pro-Women* Comment

There's no such thing as bad publicity for a movie.

[quote]That's exactly what they did. Un-be-fucking-lievable. East Shit, Rolling Stone. Not half the magazine it was before.

Journalism is still an industry controlled by white men. And we know that misogyny is a huge problem, still, And with Macy Grey you get misogyny and racism directed at her. These ugly beardy inadequate men getting twitches in their underwear for attacking a black woman. Fantastic,

[quote]People Are Threatening To Boycott Hocus Pocus 2 After Bette Midler Made *Pro-Women* Comment

Journalism is also an industry that is struggling financially so clickbait stories about "someone on Twitter said XXX and people are OUTRAGED" are a huge part of what journalism is now. These stories get clicks and generate an advertising revenue that wouldn't come from other stories.

When I see tweets attacking JK Rowling that have 50k likes, I look at the profiles and a lot of the accounts describe themselves as writers. The actual articles they write for websites get barely any interaction.

This is the new "journalism".

[quote] There's no such thing as bad publicity for a movie.

Tell that to Kevin Spacey and Christopher Plummer

R424 Will be streaming in honor of Bette truth telling!

"Hocus Pocus 2" is going direct to streaming exclusively on Disney+ beginning Sept. 30. That was always the plan.

My favorite non-cancelling cancelling is with JK Rowling, where the nitwits talk about "death of the author" and pretend Harry Potter land is whatever they want--but, of course, if they buy the books, watch the movies, visit the Web sites and get followed by the ads they just make JK Rowling that much richer.

What I really don't get is that they still fucking care so much about Harry Potter. I mean these are people in their 30s. I mean, I loved Wrinkle in Time and Mary Poppins as a kid and both Madeleine L'Engle and P.L. Travers had some unadmirable qualities, but I'm a fucking grown-up and I don't really *care*. I sure as hell don't feel betrayed because both held views I don't hold.

But, anyway, back to Bette--the target audience for Hocus Pocus II doesn't care about trans people tantrums. Same way Dave Chapelle's fans don't care. Those who do care will froth long and hard, but every time Trans Twitter overreacts they lose a little more power. It's same-old, same-old. They're fucking bullies, of course, but they're not winning new fans and the Lea Thomas thing created new skepticism.

[quote]My favorite non-cancelling cancelling is with JK Rowling, where the nitwits talk about "death of the author" and pretend Harry Potter land is whatever they want--but, of course, if they buy the books, watch the movies, visit the Web sites and get followed by the ads they just make JK Rowling that much richer.

You didn't see the book stores who said they would remove her books from public display?#

You didn't see the fan sites who said they would never mention JKR by name?

You haven't seen the countless death threats directed at her, including the recent one where her address (where she lives with her husband and children) was published with a picture of a pipe bomb?

r436 Wrong, most of the target audience are 'queer' 20- 35 year olds......

R437, Oh they made a huge stink about it, still do, but when push comes to shove they looked for ways to still obsess about Harry Potter, thus the "death of the author"--they just can't quit JK. It's pathetic.

R438, I'd assume it's women who grew up on it with some queer mixed in. The kerfuffle will have blown over by then and the outrage addicts will be off to something else.

Death threats R437?!!!???! How fucked up that a community so often the target of violence would threaten someone else with violence because she chooses to be called a woman and not a birthing person. The irony is lost on these people.

Oh you ain't seen nothing, r440.

They threaten violence because they're MEN. It's all they know.

r440, a woman is murdered, usually by an intimate male partner, every 4 hours in the US. Two men who ID as women have been killed this year, one pulled a gun on his friend and there has been no motive or circumstance discovered in the other's death. In the UK, "transwomen" are 4 times more likely to commit murder than to be victims of it. 88% of all men convicted of sex crimes have the fetish of autogynephilia among their top 3 paraphilias, with a full 60% of those claiming to be "transwomen". Autogynephilia is the sexual fetish of a man getting off on pretending to be a woman. With the exceptions of Dahmer and Wournos, every infamous serial-killer to date has been an AGP aka a "transwoman", including the Unabomber (really). Men who can dehumanize women to the degree of seeing them as nothing more than a figment of their own imagination or a costume are statistically the most dangerous men in society.

R441, this is horrendous!!! This is really scary. I couldn't finish all the screenshots but they are the worst threats and violent hate towards women (and not only women, just disagreeing people!) by men that I've ever seen.

I've reached a new level of TERFdom after seeing your link. Now I don't wish these people all the best in their private lives anymore. There needs to be a strong hand against them. Violent, unhinged lunatics. R442's info is also chilling. Note that MTF violent criminals will be counted against women's statistics, thus completely skewing the statistical data by adding male criminal patterns to the females.

r443, violent male rapists and murderers of women are being housed in women's prisons where they are brutalizing, raping and impregnating the female inmates. There is an upcoming federal lawsuit against the state of California being waged by the Women's Liberation Front on behalf of the forcibly impregnated/raped inmates.

[quote]You sound very intelligent.

I said this exact thing to you fucking anti-transers a million times, and you're so lame that you can't come up with your own insults, you just repeat back what has been said to you.

I wish Dataloungers would stop indulging these trolls on these threads. Instead of thinking you're going to change minds by arguing with these straight rightwing interlopers, FF and ignore the OPs of these threads, and maybe complain to Mediapolis about how they're just letting DL be overrun with rightwingers who are astroturfing any anonymous place they can find on the internet.

Also, I find it chilling that the very term TERF implies that the disagreer is a woman. Thus, they are warring and directing their aggression towards women by presumption, again letting the (straight) male half of the world off the hook.

There needs to be more awareness of that! I never thought it would be the trans that would plunge us into the Handmaid's tale but here it is with their birthing people and their violent aggression towards women. Even as a gay man I find that chilling. Remember, unhinged straight males don't like us either!

R445, we are not right-wingers, you bully. I am as left as they come, and I'm an educated and intelligent person, and I fully believe we need to take a very stern look at the trans politics and tame down what is unfolding to be a very serious threat to the rights of women (and possibly LGB) and the semantics of society in general. You won't silence all of us!

Here's some good news.

The problem is the psychiatric community which no longer recognizes gender dysphoria as a mental illness. They’re now not only saying it’s normal, but everyone should indulge in complete fantasy. That’s why you have men buying pads for periods they don’t have, demanding Pap smears, want womb implanted, etc. The psychiatric community should be helping these people accept reality. You’re trans? Find. But you’re trans. Trans women aren’t women and trans men aren’t men. That’s why they can’t accept that they can’t play in sports. They’ve been led to believe that there aren’t any differences between them and their biological sex. Why would they? They’ve been given the okay to live in fantasy. This is why they threaten to Jill themselves if they hear their “dead name”. This isn’t good therapy. They should be counseled on accepting reality.

R432 it has little to wiith her being black and almost all to do with her being a woman.

R436 she's written a lot since Harry Potter, she even has a television series based on one of her major book series in the UK. For adults.

R445 you're the troll here, dear. Not us. No matter how hard you stamp your feet and shriek.

R449 like other instititions they have been captured by trans interests. And then they use the psychiatrists and psychologists saying "it's perfectly normal" as leverage to capture even more institutions.

The trans brigade are the biggest incels on earth which is confusing considering they claim to want to be women. They really are the freak in Silence of the Lambs with the woman in the pit so they can steal her skin and wear it.

I'm glad she stick to her gun and refused to retract or apologize for the tweet..

Meanwhile, Maya Forstater won her big employment case in the UK today.

related thread

It was covered in this thread already. Bette didn't back down, she explained her position. Macy walked back her comments to where they are much less pointed, but didn't apologize.

r453 r455

Some crazy trannies attacking Bette!

SAY THE CATECHISM, BETTE

r458

The TransMob attacking Bette Midler is trying to gaslight her as well, shrieking that "NO ONE HAVE EVER STOPPED YOU FROM CALLING YOURSELF 'WOMAN!' NO ONE!!!"

[quote] All you have to do is specifically say "transwomen and men are women and men"

Orwellian.

How many time do I have to say this: the trans community lies.

They can never be trusted to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I thought that maybe they would try to be truthful in their court filings, but that hope has flown out the window. ACLU is now filing briefs that out and out lie. They need to be sanctioned by the courts.

It's ma'am! Say it, SAY IT, You stupid cow!

Are the trans activists proud of that deranged transperson in that video?

I was meaning to make a thread about this video at R463. Does anyone know if this is for real? Looks a bit exaggerated to me. However, if it's real, it's scary. Police should have been called.

It's real. There have been a couple of threads about this particular screwball.

Thanks, R466. It's funny, he insisted on being called Ma'am, but talks and walks like an angry linebacker. They're not even trying, are they?

He's not even trying. We must be careful of equating one deranged person with an entire group.

Ok, you're right, R468.

Unless you meant the singular "they"?

No, i certainly did not! :)

Before JK or Bette were attacked and defamed - the great, cantankerous Germaine Greer was brave and impatient enough to say FUCK OFF, I don't care if trans people's feeling are hurt by my views. Try being an old woman!

Germaine Greer, you fucking TERF, I identify as a woman AND old!!1!!1!

One of the most irritating things to me is that TIMs and their enablers don’t expect TIMs to perform feminine accommodation, while they demand it of real women. That’s how you know they don’t believe transwomen are women. They claim womanhood is just a set of chosen behaviors; behaviors that TIMs rarely perform except as a fetish. The fact that much "feminine" behavior is forced on women from early childhood is now a hate fact to upstanding faux-progressives. You're supposed to call yourself a feminist but don't you dare actually be one.

TIMs think dominating women in every situation is their right as men, and third wave airheads like Roxane Gay agree with them. Tough broads like Midler and Rowling are the real feminists in the room here but third wavers and many liberal men want them burned at the stake.

It’s also obvious that trans enablers think womanhood is just a dumping ground for feminine men and male losers who can’t cut it as men. It’s incredibly insulting and deeply misogynist and homophobic.

Trans, male or female, is ALL rooted in misogyny, r474. Young women being celebrated for cutting off their tits in mainstream media is where we are at now. Fuck it that you will lose all sexual sensations in your breasts, cut them off because god forbid you have to live as a lezzy. Meanwhile, trans women embrace all of the stereotypes that modern women have fought against for so long and go on lesbian dating sites expecting lesbians to "suck their lady dicks" or be killed.

It's all about a deep hatred of women. ALL of it.

Another example of the crap lesbians have to deal with from MEN.

Gross!

Recently HERApp on Twitter, ostensibly a dating app for lesbians, made a "joke": "She's a 10 but she calls herself a 'Gold Star Lesbian'"

Actual lesbians were outraged. HER tried to then say "we need to be kind to each other! Gold Star implies if you aren't one, you are a lesser lesbian", but of course there's tweets from HER barking at TERFs and how they aren't welcome on the app.

Whoever runs that Twitter account is fucked up.

Trans women's behaviour is completely and totally the behaviour of entitled men. They know zilch about the experience of being a woman and carry on in their male ways thinking that a wig and some lipstick are all it takes.

That article about the "transbians" is extremely concerning - both because of the entitlement of TIMs and their proclivity to complain to the authorities when rejected by biological women, and the free pass they get from institutions at the expense, again, of the bio women who don't want to suck "girl dick". We need to actively protest this shit!

R479 start with the formerly gay rights organizations that all changed the definition of "homosexual" to "same gender attraction" instead of "same sex attraction" around the same time, enforcing the "maybe you just haven't met the right girl yet!" school of thought as legitimate.

Recapture those organizations if we can. Or starve them of funds and make new ones like LGB Alliance.

R463 video star is so ladylike. I can't help but compare to June Cleaver.

[quote]R475 Young women being celebrated for cutting off their tits in mainstream media is where we are at now.

How is that different from young women being celebrated in mainstream media for enlarging their breasts… which is certainly “where we are at now”.

Why should one be almost [italic]de rigueur [/italic] and the other abhorrent?

R482 well, one involves cutting off, forever, a healthy and functioning body part because the person doing so has internalized misogyny, and the other involves augmenting that body part to make it bigger, with implants that are relatively safe and can be removed later.

And I don't think actual feminists approve of current female beauty standards forced upon women by society regardless. So both would be frowned upon.

I’m with Bette. Enough with this nonsense. I completely support the trans community, but not this idiocy. Call yourself whatever the hell you want. I’m sticking with “woman.”

R480 I fear that these organisations, especially the big and powerful ones, are already funded by far more than donations from the general public, at least in the big countries like USA and UK.

For example, the worries that Big Pharma might have an interest in selling products and services to more trans people makes me think there are huge donations involved. Maybe that could explain this drastic and otherwise inexplicable shift towards T rights ONLY.

How is that different from young women being celebrated in mainstream media for enlarging their breasts?

Please link to a media source that does this...I'll wait.

R487, I'm not saying that surgical enhancements to become more sexually appealing to men are OK, but the two are completely different phenomenons, your outrage is weird.

I'll now be watching Hocus Pocus 2 as soon as it streams.

Actually, it's not weird. Ellen Page was celebrated for her becoming a "man" and chopping off her tits. I have young female friends that want to bind their breasts because they want to be seen as "non binary." Breast binding can be very damaging to women.

This trans shit is harmful to women and misogynist at it's roots. If you're not outraged, you aren't paying attention.

I absolutely agree that it's harmful. I thought you were saying that breast implants were more harmful.

It doesn't look like Elliott takes any testosterone. She doesn't want to look like a grown up man with hair.

That's why a lot of women like her prefer the nonbinary label. They might chop off their tits but they don't want facial hair. They want to look as smooth as a baby's bottom.

She's either taking testosterone or she had jaw implant surgery. Her face has changed too much unless she's had her ovaries removed and is also anorexic.

Testosterone would age her as she is in her late 30s. I don't think she would want that look.

She's had plastic surgery and I don't think those pecs and abs are real, either.

The abs look like one of those halloween mesh shirts with abs drawn on them. The incorrect placement along with the stick arms doesn't help.

I've not heard the acronym TIM before, what is it? Trans something Male?

Trans-identified male. Sorry I forgot to spell it out.

Thanks, mate. Not a problem at all, I just hadn't heard that term before, and there are so many acronyms around, haha.

Is a "trans-identified male" a transman? Or a biological male who identifies as a woman?

I think it's a male who wears a dress but likes his dick A LOT, R500.

Really, it's a way to say tranny without implying that humans can actually transition to the other sex. There is no such thing as a trans human. It's not a biological possiblity in our species. Puts it back in their mentally ill brain where it belongs.

So a "trans-identified male" is a transvestite or a cross-dresser?

No, it's just what we call trannies, the majority of whom are autogynephiles. They can, in no way, be women so referring to them as transwomen is disingenuous and completely wrong. It's for people who are trying to not call them insane. I prefer 'transtapo', since it fits the bill much more accurately.

A trans man is what was until recently called a FtM. Meaning they have transitioned from female to male. Why did they give up FtM and MtF as terms? We can guess. It's both more vague and definite to say I "identify" as a man. TIM. It cuts off any further discussion as to how you got there and how far you went with it.

Anyway - everyone should watch this MtF trans from the UK. He's struggling to understand how it all went wrong for HIM. It's sad, close to tragic. Hopefully more and more people are speaking out. He doesn't even call himself a detransitioner. He speaks about his young confusion about his sexuality and how he transitioned with full support and funds from the medical community. For him it as a mistake. He is NOT a woman. So now he takes testosterone to make up for his cut off balls.

* His name is Ritchie Herron.

[quote]R504 It cuts off any further discussion as to how you got there and how far you went with it.

But it IS discussed. Endlessly. Here. By you.

You're welcome to take your seat until we're done, R506. You don't have the intellectual artillery to join this discussion. Go harass someone else.

Yes, Mommie Dearest.

Hmmm. This is very interesting:

"@ivanka Trump. You are noticeably quiet today. The high school friends you took to get an abortion are not."

What a fucking cunt. She stays quiet and lets her loony fucking father say whatever he fucking wants. Scarlett Johansson. her NYC best bud. is a liar too. They are both COMPLICIT!!!

^ That tweet is about 3 weeks old. You were told to take a seat, R509. Did you just discover the Twitter machine today?

She won her case quite handily.

It's interesting listening to the trans trying to spin this by misreading the verdict, i.e., lying about it.

R509 What does tweet or your post have to do with the topic of this thread? The TDS makes you insert that family into literally every discussion doesn't it? Someone could tell you they have cancer and you'll launch into a tirade about Trump. You're as sick as the trannies.

R503, people with transvestism are not the same as people with gender dysphoria. Some of them may have been confused by recent ways of talking about gender, which isn’t entirely their fault. The suppression of talking about the issue on the left liberal side has led to it being affiliated with Trumpism, even though most liberal women want nothing to do with Trump.

R511, I was struck by this statement in the link:

"To be gender critical is to deny the existence of what might best be termed ‘gendered souls’. Gender-critical beliefs reject the claims of trans activists that sometimes there is a mismatch between one’s ‘authentic self’ and one’s body, and that in such cases society has a duty to prioritise an individual’s subjective sense of self. "

It gets at the heart of my own issue with trans ideology--I don't really believe in a mind/body split and trans ideology insists that I do. It's basically a religious concept and I'm not religious. I certainly believe people can feel at odds with their bodies, but it's not at all clear to me that mass pretense and extreme body modification at a young age is any kind of solution for that.

The actress who played Princess Di in the latest installment of The Crown came out as, er, I'm not sure. She is to be referred to as "them". I assume this means she has multiple personality disorder.

Yea, Emma Corrin is on the latest cover of Vogue, looking very gender confuese. Why can't a young lady enjoy being a lesbian anymore?

A woman who doesn't shave her armpits? Groundbreaking.

She's such a rebel!

But, Emma isn't a lesbian. She is also one of those she/they people. So, basically, nothing has changed and she's a hetero woman who still goes by 'she' and forgot to shave her pits because she's been with her boyfriend long enough to not care. Couldn't be more het woman than that.

You obviously didn't read the article R519.

What part didn't I read, R520? She goes by she/they which means you can use either one for her. She has a boyfriend. The pits are self-evident. The article would have been more honest if they titled it "Attention whore seeks attention, gloms onto loony movement." Next cover shoot she'll be black.

R295, she didn't back down at all. And her comments were much more cutting than Bette's.

She just says she "loves" everyone but didn't take back anything.

The lamestream media used misleading headlines to make it seem like Macy apologized. That's because they want the "enemy" to be older white women. Not outspoken black women because it's not a good look for the white male trans movement to trash black women.

Emma Corrin in Vogue Interview:

[quote]I ask Corrin about a photo they posted of themself in a chest binder last July along with a caption about safe binding practices. Posting anything to Instagram about gender identity can be “really scary,” they say, and the July post prompted a flood of comments, not all of them respectful. “In my mind, gender just isn’t something that feels fixed,” they say, “and I don’t know if it ever will be; there might always be some fluidity there for me.” As for their dating life, Corrin doesn’t place limits on who they’re attracted to, shrugging and simply saying, “I like people,” but also fondly remembering a date they went on not long after they came out that served as a kind of entrée to a new world. “My first date with a girl, they were like, Oh! You’re a baby queer!” recalls Corrin as they sip tea, adding, “It was amazing. We actually didn’t end up seeing each other again, but she really gave me the lowdown.”

[quote] Corrin has also dated men and admits they’ve occasionally felt “intense pressure” to justify their LGBTQ+ identity: “I’m working out all this complex gender and sexuality stuff. And yet, I’m seeing a guy? That feels very juxtaposed, even if I’m very happy.” Corrin is focused, they say, on building a queer and trans community. Taking to Instagram helps on that front: “If you have a platform and you’re able to use it, that’s obviously so important—and I met some incredible people through it.”

r523 that was EXHAUSTING.

Why do the authors of the article use 'they' when she's fine with 'she' and using 'she' wouldn't make it fucking indecipherable dreck to such a great degree?

R523, did you mean to put her "went on a date with a girl she never saw again" against all her previous dating of men to try to prove something? All the lesbians are laughing at you.

[quote]The lamestream media used misleading headlines to make it seem like Macy apologized.

Welcome to Datalounge, Sarah Palin!

R526, sure! Side with a media that tried to make it look like Macy apologized. How liberal of you!

If you're having a hard time being wrong R525 - I can't help you with that. I quoted directly from the Vogue article that you dismiss.

Emma Corrin has also changed her pronouns on all her social media accounts. So there's that. Take a deep breath and leave me the fuck alone.

Attention whore is a pronoun.

It's going to be hilarious when all these idiots just slowly go back to their normal lives within the next couple of years hoping that no one notices.

r525 Emma is no longer "she/they" (her new identity for a year?). She changed to "they/them" very recently on her instagram. I also agree that sporting that ridiculous look doesn't make anyone a lesbian when this woman is a man-fucker (along w experimenting with women - so "kweer" there).

How did she get the cover of Vogue? She's not a big star.

Macy actually did apologize and was reeducated live on television by Hoda on the Today show today.

Poor woman.

R533, sad, but still some good news today:

The fact a transgender woman can't change her legal name because she's on the sex offender registry as a male does not amount to cruel and unusual punishment, or violate her free speech rights, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

[quote]what is unfolding to be a very serious threat to the rights of women (and possibly LGB)

Not just "possibly" a threat to LGB. I'm always reminded of Iran: homosexuality is illegal in Iran (because of the religious fundamentalists who run the country) and potentially punishable by death. But gender conversion therapy is legal and even subsidized by the government. In other words, gays and lesbians officially have a choice in Iran: you can either be executed, or you can change genders and be "normal." Personally, I find this terrifying. I'm a gay man and I have no desire to be a woman.

Meanwhile, in this country, we have people like Ellen Page who was a lesbian for many years until deciding that that wasn't good enough and she had to be Elliott, and I worry that straight people will get the idea that, like in Iran, there's no reason for anyone to be gay or lesbian if you can be "normal" just by getting hormones and having surgery. And trans people - our supposed allies - will not come to our defense.

R535 Iran actually has research on trans too, one of their studies they did found that they had a 50% chance of having narcissistic personality disorder with an average of three major psychological afflictions including NPD. The study also found 80% of trans in total have major mental illness.

Yes, we absolutely MUST trust research from IRAN.

The trans don't allow research in countries where they control academia, r537, they actively go after any research that might make them look bad. And Iran, even though they are our enemy, has some amazing scientists. They aren't some backwards third world nation. So pooh-poohing research just because it's from Iran is silly. The research is actually published on a US gov website because the Iranian scientists go through proper academic channels. Countries can be enemies but also share research. They aren't exactly the Russians.

In their case, they allow trans women, but they have to get the surgery and live as a woman. Somehow this is acceptable under Islamic law, but gay people are not.

[quote]In their case, they allow trans women, but they have to get the surgery and live as a woman. Somehow this is acceptable under Islamic law, but gay people are not.

Uh, yes. We know. That's what we're trying to fight off happening in the western world. The erasure of biological WOMEN and GAY men. It all comes from religious zealotry and the lesser of two "evils." And religious zealots are now in control of the law.

Do you understand Bette's statement or this thread at all R538? India and Turkey also demand gay males get a sex change rather than to practice the sin of homosexuality. It's all terribly regressive. NOW with better SURGERY!

A sex change operation does not change your biological sex or sexual nature.

The US is even more fucked up with far too many people who know better embracing and profiting off the trend of gender fluidity, non binary pronouns, hormone blockers, "you're stunning" lies to trans women and Transtapo SEX grabs from MEN in a skirt.

R539 I was explaining why it was silly to ignore Iran's academic research just because it's Iran. I don't know what that has to do with the rest of that mess you posted in r539.

And yes, I am not retarded, I know why Iran does that, and I know other countries do it too.

Not sure why you are attacking me or for what purpose, but you appear to be completely misreading / misunderstanding something, somewhere.

If Ellen Page is so happy why does she always look some damn miserable in every single photo where she's showing off her Lee Press-On Abs.

r540, r539 is the insane poster who screams about "ancient white fags." He's very, very ill.

Stop calling everyone the F word R542. You're projecting. F&F!

I've already blocked you so many times. But you have too many accounts.

F&F R542!

R542 I'm just going to start assuming when someone responds to me with something bizarre or inappropriate or accusatory that appears to be taking place entirely in their heads that it's him from now on. Because in this thread and others, every single time! It's been him or one of his various alts.

R542 I can't tell if he thinks we are all idiots or if he thinks he is just too, too clever for us, a bigly genius, when he posts shit like r543. Probably a combination of both.

He has that Trump disease where whatever he accuses you of, he's actually doing. It's a big tell.

I only have one account. You're an insane lunatic. And you shouting "fag" at posters here tells us all we need to know about you.

Sorry, I was addressing rr543. He's a nasty crazy troll who should be banned.

[quote]How did she get the cover of Vogue? She's not a big star.

Come on now. We all know how she got that cover. Glory glory to the almighty T.

Bingo ^

R539, homosexuality is not illegal anymore in India or Turkey. Iran has some of the worst anti-gay laws in the world. They also are second only to Thailand in the number of sex change operations performed.

I assume Corbin was picked to coincide with Pride. Vogue had someone trans on the cover last year, I think, though as part of a group shot.

As for Corrin, she's clearly pushing for a higher profile and the whole nonbinary thing just netted her a cover. I'll give her credit for doing it before she was a has-been. She's a pretty blonde with some acting ability, so she can use her pronoun as a diversity point because being a plain old white woman puts you pretty far down on the list right now.

It's not like she's limiting herself to nonbinary roles.

Great, great idea to have added "identity" to the acronym so that any attention-seeking whore can self-identify into our protected class and get Vogue covers instead of, you know, actual gay men and women, for Pride.

Thanks a lot, former gay groups!

True r552. It's using something currently trendy for one's own marketability and as a way to be popular. It's very Edina Monsoon, latching onto the new trend to be relevant and get people talking about you.

[quote]It's very Edina Monsoon, latching onto the new trend to be relevant and get people talking about you.

In the movie, weren't Bo and Marshall portrayed as doing this very thing? I think Eddie even says something about "jumping on the trend".

I'm very much an "umbrella" person for the most part - but even I've been rolling my eyes a bit lately at the overuse of terms like "queer" and "LGBTQ+" in places they don't belong. If you're talking about a situation involving gay men or a situation involving lesbians or a situation involving transgender people, etc, I don't think it's a bad thing to use the specific rather than general term. For example, I was watching a video on the history of San Francisco last night and the guy doing it said something like: "male members of the military who were discharged for being gay were dropped off in San Fransisco, creating an LGBTQ+ enclave in the city's Castro district" (or something like that). I did think, well they created a [italic]gay[/italic] male enclave if they were male soldiers who slept with other men, surely?

It's absolutely not a big deal, something like that, but an example of how I think everyone is just so concerned about using certain language that they're not always making sense.

We already have a huge trans history in American language with “mankind” representing everyone. When perhaps modifying “All men are created equal” has been brought up, conservatives always dig in their heels to insist this means women, too.

I just find this ironic.

"Man" did originally mean "people", I believe. Hasn't been used that way for a long time, obviously. But I think I read somewhere once that the terms were orginally "werman" and "woman", with "man" just meaning "folk". Which I guess makes sense as this would've originally come from Germanic roots.

I always picture the nagging trans defenders in these threads to be Jack Turban, Michael Hobbes, Owen Jones, etc. Same sneering, bitchy imperious tone.

Anyway, go Bette and Macy!

Wow. I find it very concerning that the pro-trans commenters on this board are now claiming that only conservatives and American republicans are supporting women's rights and raising alarm against anti-feminist trans agendas. The fallacies and dangerous twisting of truth are becoming a hallmark of the T movement. And this is scary.

.....

Arguing that the erasure of the word woman is something that only bothers conservative is wrong. Very similiar to the concern about crime which was also supposed to be a conservative red herring. Once Democrats acknowledged crime was an issue for many voters they connected with reality. The same will be true for understanding the concern over birthing people and other terms that deny women.

R554 queer now means a straight person who wants to seem more interesting. And it's also used by young, clueless/ageist gaylings who don't know or care how offensive the word is to people older than them. And anyone else who thinks letting someone of the same sex get to first base once when they were drunk means you're far more interesting than "straight" or a lowly G, L, or B can provide.

R558 because the movement is founded on denying reality, so when "no debate" doesn't work, they have nothing left but the truth (bad for them) or lies.

I'm a little surprised Trump and right wingers don't embrace trans, because they have the same "alternate facts" approach to the world. Guess they don't want the competition!

I'm pretty certain that the right wing (at least in the USA) will soon set the stage for the trans' shocking volte-face transition to their ranks. They're just made for one another and the trans rhetoric is just as fascist, alt facts and censorous as the far right's.

R562 the thing is, exit polls have been done that show trans women specifically vote conservative more often than not. It is an inherently conservative movement.

That's also part of the reason the trans do not want to stand alone - the LGBT hides the fact that they are conservatives because LGB votes much higher for the left.

The funny bit was in the data I saw, trans and nonbinaries were being lumped together too, and nonbinaries vote in line with the LGB. But when separated out, the conservative streak is revealed. (And yes it's confusing because nonbinaries are also part of the trans umbrella, but they are a markedly different voting bloc).

[quote]If Ellen Page is so happy why does she always look some damn miserable in every single photo where she's showing off her Lee Press-On Abs.

That's called TRANS JOY!

Cis people, who tend to smile and beam when they're feeling joy, just don't recognize it.

Shrs riding the wave of gender euphoria, buoyed by the cult that supports and promotes her. When that wears off, she realizes she is still just as unhappy as she was before, because the problem is her mental state, not her outer appearance.

R563, that's very interesting. In effect, though, currently the trans are acting like the Conservatives' Trojan horse in the LGBT construct. IMO they (the conservatives) are going to wait until the T destroys the LGB (like someone posted is happening in Iran) and then proudly adopt them as their own. Or... promptly destroy them. The Right is not known of being kind to its bootlickers.... or trusting traitors.

[quote] If Ellen Page is so happy why does she always look some damn miserable in every single photo

Just some sociological trivia: Smiling at others is a show of subservience. Men smile less than women. And poorer women smile more than their well off sisters.

In summary: Elliot Page is being masculine by not smiling everywhere.

R567 she never smiled even in shows where she's supposed to be subservient and poor. So she is either a terrible actress with no range, or she is just reflecting the sadness and despair she feels inside, moments away from hurling herself in front of a bus.

Interesting info though. I will now tell that to people who comment on my resting grump face and ask them why they think I am feminine and poor.

^ ask them why they WANT me to be feminine and poor, I mean

R563 well that's interesting. Any articles or links?

[quote]queer now means a straight person who wants to seem more interesting.

Sadly, I agree. I will be really honest, about 10 years ago I was one of these young guys who thought 'queer' was a pretty great term to cover us. Much less cumbersome than all the letters, you know? And the whole point re us reclaiming it seemed great. Then as I got to spend more time in the community, I would have older gay men then tell me their stories and explained why they felt it was offensive, and so I took their feelings about it on board. I became much more interested in gay history as time went on and feel I can understand that a lot better. Plus all of a sudden 'queer' was no longer being used to describe us, but as you say, to describe people who actually seem to be more like straight people playing around and I just really went off it. Especially as in a number of cases, these cosplaying people seem to be the ones often representing us, the ones with the loudest voices, you know?

I love straight allies, but this other type is something different - glomming on to the community and making it all about you for a couple of years until you decide not to be 'queer' anymore seems very strange to me.

To be honest, I now don't use it, but I do think it's a great word to describe what it originally intended to. It's sorta onomatopoeic or something, you know?

“I’m working out all this complex gender and sexuality stuff. And yet, I’m seeing a guy? That feels very juxtaposed..."

Oh, honey, it's a tale as old as time.

Are there any feminists that trans exclusionary activists like? I think not.

Bette is right.

They only like the "feminists" that give deference to men.

Much like "queer" there's a lot of people who call themselves feminists but treat it as a "choose your own adventure" descriptor where THEY decide what feminism means to THEM. THEIR feminism is inclusive, not like those gross old feminists of yore.

Their feminism bows to the patriarchy, which makes it not-feminism.

R573, of course. Women we know in our own lives and respect. Most of them go into fields other than politics. And men who talk openly with women and aren’t hung up on stereotypes. And androgynous people including trans people too, because questioning what really happens when you choose to take hormones and whether there are health or social effects of encouraging androgynous girls to become “normal” men is not really about excluding people.

Ellen Page came out as a lesbian. She got a lot of publicity but it died off quickly and she didn't get a career boost from it. Her career prior to that had been pretty much in the doldrums. So she comes out as a transman. He gets a lot of publicity. Which will die off and her career will still be stuck because nobody can cast a 4'11" man who looks like an elf. Unless they remake Elf of course.

R577, I believe Elliot said he wanted to transition because he couldn’t picture himself growing old as a woman. So I guess it was fear of menopause rather than gender dysphoria. Fear of puberty and fear of menopause are both going to be factors in this. A lot of XX people are afraid of both.

I keep wondering if men who transition do it because they were bald or balding. They get female hormones to restore their hair and then go for broke.

Poor Bette she was speaking truth to power.

R577, All trans people say that.

R574, those are third wave feminists. They are the same morons who fought for prostitution to be considered a legitimate career choice and started forgetting to wear pants or skirts and started defining feminism as "free to be fucking whores". They basically were so stupid that they decided women should be defined by straight men. That's why it was so easy for them to go along with the transtapo's bullshit. They were used to letting straight men define womanhood.

[quote]R581 those are third wave feminists. They are the same morons who… started forgetting to wear pants or skirts

You’re not saying they ran around in their [italic]underwear [/italic](??)

Pretty much, R582. For examples, see almost all current young female "singers"...and Beyonce.

i agree that women exposing their bodies is just the limit.

r574 Nothing has changed since the 70s. People are still making excuses for pedos, kissing Allen Ginsburgs ass and everyone hates Andrea Dworkin.

r190, do you mean black men or do you not include black women in your "... women of all colors" category? Your first sentence contradicts itself.

r288, that's an incredibly disturbing way of enforcing right-think. If the speaker, someone who has actually had a direct contact with him, is using male pronouns for him their statement should be left as is and not corrected to protect the ego of easily triggered readers.

r371, bingo! They're never going to accept an apology once they've been slighted, so no one should given them the satisfaction of backtracking, qualification, or further explanation.

r502, they're a pathetic, failed male that thinks their glitter soul makes them the opposite sex.

Bette's really gone quiet on social media.

... WTF?

⬆️ That's Juno Dawson, who declared in Attitude that a lot of gay men are only gay as a "consolation prize" because they couldn't become Stunning and Brave transwomen.

Attitude ended up yanking the article.

Dawson is producing a new "trans" Doctor Who drama podcast for the BBC

R587 she's been/being subjected to an overwhelming barrage of hate the likes of which she has never seen in her lifetime. She is wise to avoid it for now.

You can sense a change in the wind. More women of note are speaking up. Of course they have to be in the twilight of their career because the attack of the trans and their far left allies is quite vicious. Their attack mode goes on auto pilot with no attempt to listen at all.

[italic]It’s the End Times ! !

I'm way more worried about the latest cultural push to normalise pedophillia than about the tranny stuff but I sure wish there weren't so much fucking crossover.

There is quite a lot of crossover, especially where it concerns trans women.

[quote] I'm way more worried about the latest cultural push to normalise pedophillia than about the tranny stuff but I sure wish there weren't so much fucking crossover.

Trans was always just the segue. It's the next big thing

R586: I do include women of color and I think as women they had to suffer more than as a POC.

This thread's OP posted some anti-trans crap on the NAMBLA thread, and I told him to stick to the subject and to post that someplace else. A few minutes later, the NAMBLA thread was deleted. Before it went, it was minus the post I had just made (I have a backup of the entire thread).

Can anti-trans trolls summon up a deletion at will? What say you, DL?

[quote]Much as Lansbury’s Broadway version of “Mame” had nothing to do with the earlier Rosalind Russell incarnation, Manville borrows nothing from Lansbury’s performance.”

What a maroon. Jerome Lawrence and Robert E. Lee adapted both Roz's play and Angela's musical from Patrick Dennis's novel.

Regina Terfiana, long may she reign!