''A lot of gay men are only gay as a consolation prize for not being a woman'' says T loon

I enjoy my cock too much for that to be true.

'“There are two or three gay men who have come to see me and said: ‘Oh, I think I should be trans but I don’t want to do anything about it. It’s too hard, I’m too old.'”' Yeah, those are just eldergays who are in a snit that they will never fuck Colto. Or anyone else ever again.

We're the ones with the disposable income. Boycott (yeah, bitches, BOYcott) the advertisers and see how fast the editorial direction changes.

They are so very much psychotically fixated on all things female, that they feel gay men eschewing females means that there is something mentally ill about THEM! In other words, T is perfectly normal, gay male is "perverted."

At this point, I begin to wonder whether the gay males at national organizations like HRC are aware of this situation, or have somehow suppressed or compartmentalized it away?

T get to say anything they like. Their feelings are all that anyone cares about. Noone cares that this T bitch telling lies and slandering gays will confuse and upset young gays facing homophobia and worried about coming out. Fuck Attitude, fuck this T slag.

[quote] The Problem With Men and Women from Someone Who Has Been Both

This must be a work of science fiction. A man can never be a woman and vice versa.

Or maybe her hormone therapy included some hallucinogens...

T is reaching NAMBLA/pedo levels of deleterious injury to the gay and lesbian communities.

I wonder if the CIA is behind all of these trannies coming out of the woodwork like dormant cockroaches.

T is much more harmful than NAMBLA

Sadly, The way I see the situation finally being resolved will eventually involve Republicans, not wanting to appear homophobic so they pass laws that cover sexual orientation only, and do not mention gender identity at all. Democrats are far too steeped in the SJW quicksand to ever consider doing this.

This Juno thing is feeding homophobia, and the 'gay' media (now 'queer' media) are all too happy to provide a platform. When is the pushback going to begin? This bullshit is out of control!

I'm really beginning to hate those people - and the stupid ass idiots who are enabling them to evangelize their stupidity.

Hypocrites - imagine what they'd say if we started saying stuff like that about them. They're melt if we use the "wrong" pronoun, let alone spouting unfounded psychobabble drivel about them.

So now we're to be lectured and demeaned by a heterosexual woman (because that's what this Person would say she is).

In any other situation, the perpetrator would be told she was deeply homophobic, and to fuck off.

Why I stopped reading "the gay press". Fucking hate speech. The author of the interview (not the trans interviewee) adds this teeny tiny editorial note: "This may seem like a controversial statement, but it is something that Juno has experienced since she came out as trans."

Fucking hate speech is what it is.

Ok, now I am very angry. This has GOT to stop. This is so horrifyingly offensive, and the fact that it is in a magazine FOR gay men raises the insult level. Something has to be done.

Don't forget the power that gay and lesbians hold: open your mouth. Trans are fucking terrified we will speak up.

Pinknews published an article that said lesbians, in an evolution sense, evolved because it turned men on

I think she's right. There are SO MANY "3rd sex" gay men. They're not men, they're not women, they're something else. Richard Simmons, Frankie Grande, Davey Wavey, those are just a few that come to mind who are public people. Now that being transsexual is more accepted (even encouraged and socially rewarding) I bet we see a huge increase in the MTF - it just makes sense.

I agree that boycotting the advertisers (and calling or writing them to let them know why) is the way to go. Gay men are successful and influential in many areas of business and the arts. Trans loons practically define themselves by how marginalized and poor they are, yet they've infiltrated and seized all our LG organizations and are using our hard-won platforms against our community (not to mention against all women, and gayling children). Why aren't we disavowing these publications and orgs that purport to speak for us? Redirect our money to true GAY and FEMINIST orgs and businesses.

A fake cunt is a consolation prize.

In what way is it more socially acceptable, R18?

The majority of people are straight. Straight women don't want trans women in their private spaces and they aren't going to date trans men.

Straight men want nothing to do with trans women and think trans men are a joke. That's the reality despite all the propaganda.

[quote]This may seem like a controversial statement, but it is something that Juno has experienced since she came out as trans.

Unbelievable. Juno CLAIMS this has happened more than once, which makes it an unproven anecdote. Unproven anecdotes mean absolutely zero. Nothing. They mean less than nothing when it's just someone's word taken at face value, yet a gay publication is putting it out there as though it were some valid thought. It's not even in Opinion, it's in News!

This is so fucking offensive.

They appear to be getting some backlash on Twitter, at least.

There's no reason to think all of those people want to be women, R18. They might just want to embody a different model of masculinity, which should be acceptable.

More Twitter backlash:

Sorry, Juno, the women are kicking you off the island. Men can't be women, dear.

Any man that would be interested in Juno isn't looking for a woman!

The additional statements are utter bullshit. I'd expect it from the trannies, but the brainwashed, trans ass sucking statement from the Attitude editor was nutso.

Time to rev up the "Drop" petition again :)

Keep going after Juno until he apologizes.

"I can’t be a 24-hour sexual fantasy. What woman has the time? I am not a fetish, I am not a prostitute, I am definitely not your mummy."

Oh who cares what some dozy drag queen thinks.

Most numbers are "str8" only because they have been captured by a stinkfish and decided to go along with it.

I don't care what some trannie thinks, but I care that Attitude magazine is plastering her homophobic ideas on its cover and its editor is defending her.

Would Attitude plaster on its cover, "Lots of trans women are trans women as a consolation prize because they can't be gay men" if a gay author said it?

LOL -- it would start World War III, R34.

Imagine some poor woman catching a glance of that mug stomping towards the door of the ladies room. It's a definite, "No, you go first, I'll wait" type of situation.

R18 oh ffs. These men appear and behave as they want to. I din't think they should be belittled for not accepting that they are, you know, really women.

We're making progress. This thread wouldn't have had lasted this long with these types of comments last year.

Even better, R34, would Attitude write, "Lots of trans women are trans women as a consolation prize because they can't be real women" if a woman said it.

R24 - I don't think they necessarily want to be women NOW. I'm just saying that I think they could probably have easily gone that route. There are millions of boys who are like that and with the social acceptance swinging the trans way - I think more and more will decide to be what they know they are deep down. Even if it's not FULLY female, it's CLOSER TO female than it is to male. I'm not saying I'm for it or anything (I really don't give a fuck), just saying I think the author of the Attitude piece is right. Not ALL, but "a lot". No doubt in my mind.

If Juno doesn't apologize then I am not going to make the effort to fakegender him.

R23 That tweet. Wow.

This Shon Faye abomination has been writing anti-gay crap for years - shame on Attitude! Lets start a change.org petition!!!

r40 Fuck off troll

R40 there is no social acceptance of T. If there were it wouldn't be necessary to pass laws to force women to share space with them among other things.

More angry feedback on twitter from Attitude readers, with Juno Dawson trying to defend herself (lamely):

[quote]I think more and more will decide to be what they know they are deep down.

This bitch's levels of arrogance are astonishing. Fucking bigot.

Speaking of undiagnosed mental illnesses...this entire fucking thread.

^^^ Someone is triggered.

My favorite quote from R46's link

"Transactivists are having more and more trouble camouflaging their ghoulish homophobia..."

I'm glad gays and lesbians are waking up.

Yes, a mentally ill man claiming not only that he is a woman but that gay men are also secretly wanting to be mentally ill is the definition of mental illness r48.

If you are born male you can never - in any way, shape or form - become female. To pretend otherwise is mental illness. A man wearing lipstick isn't magically transformed into a woman, he and his chromosomes and penis remain male. Even when he's wearing a choker and a duper's delight smirk.

Here's what R40 meant to say:

I think more and more will decide to be what they know they are deep down - deeply opposed to anti-gay, anti-female and anti-science trans ideology.

Someone on one of the Twitter threads is named "Grant Suckley" and has a picture of TR as his avatar!

Gurl, show yourself! We know you're here!

R40 Are you Caitlyn or whatever her name is?

I'll give this moron what she wants: Since you are now and have always been "deep down inside" a heterosexual woman, you don't have the right to speak on behalf of gay men.

Who the fuck is "TR"?

Juno has a lot of self-hatred. He needs help and he needs to learn how to properly apologize.

R5 - I wonder which would win in a I Can Say Whatever The Fuck I Want and Nobody Can Call Me Out On My Bullshit contest - a trans or a Muslim.

Brilliant r54

R53, he's trying to make #gaynottrans happen, which I approve of!

"As an effeminate child and the victim of school bullies, I was called a girl years before I was called gay. Since reaching adulthood I’ve always been comfortable identifying as a gay man but have often been intrigued by the stories of trans women like Juno Dawson who once believed themselves to be gay. When I heard about the subject of Juno’s new book I thought this would be a fascinating area to discuss in Attitude – and one that would appeal to our readers. There is no reason for anyone to be offended by the discussion unless they consider being trans a slur or being a woman an insult. On the contrary, I hope the piece will increase understanding of certain aspects of the trans experience – and help those in our community who may be struggling with their gender.”

From the Twitter link at R46:

Juno Dawson‏ When really I’m speaking for a lot of trans women! And of course many people transition and BECOME gay post-transition too!

XoKII‏  @yoydoitwit2 So you're not Born gay, you can Become gay? Dangerous talk @AttitudeMag

R61, great comment. Yeah, try telling a bunch of gays and lesbians it's a choice. That'll go over well.

Reading between the lines, Juno is saying he decided to present as a woman because HE thinks in HIS head that it is more socially acceptable than being a gay man.

R63, a lot of us have thought that for years about Ts.

Trannies only go after gay men out of pure jealousy. We find happiness if we try, they never do. You never hear them bash straight men, you know, the ones killing them for being deceptive when they lie about their gender.

And to add to R63, Juno believes this even though there is no real world evidence that being trans is socially acceptable to the majority of society which is comprised of mostly straight people.

Straight people might humor T but by their very definition as heterosexuals they will never date them or actually consider them to be one of them.

There is no level inebriation wherein I could look at Richard Simmons or Frankie Grande and think "that's a man". They simply have no male characteristics - zero. That makes me homophobic? Dude, they're chicks for Christ's sake! If you can't see THAT, I don't know what to tell you. It's not some "redefining of masculinity" - they're fucking GIRLS. Pu-lease! The author is only saying there are "a lot" of gay men like that. AND THERE ARE - MILLIONS. Maybe they're fine being male, and would never change it. Wonderful. BUT - If they had been born female, you'd better believe they'd be happiER in their own skin.

Are you serious, R37. I know women who thought Richard Simmons was "cute" in his heyday. Honestly, you sound T.

^R67

The only cis is the 1%

I say you sound T, R67, because the mark of a T person is the complete inability to relate to non-T people. It's like they dropped from another planet.

r63, that is precisely what the research by Ray Blanchard, J. Michael Bailey and Anne Lawrence shows (and reaffirmed by Alice Dreger): that gay men who become trans do so because they were very "effeminate" and grew up in extremely conservative societies/families, instilling the idea that if they actually "became" women life would be easier (the other group of M2Ts are straight men who get a sexual thrill out of imagining themselves as women).

Gay magazines and organizations should be putting out the message that being a man is not defined by behavior, that masculinity can embrace both the burly linebacker AND the glittery fashion designer, and that being a woman is not defined by behavior, that femininity can embrace both the shopaholic diva AND the no-nonsense trucker. That they are, instead, endorsing the regressive ideology that there can only be one type of man and one type of woman is astonishing and genuinely appalling.

The opposite of not being born gay is not "choosing" to be gay.

They are acrobatic though; only a true acrobat could type on a keyboard while the rest of it is crawled so firmly up its own neovagina.

R67 omfg!

Are you fucking serious? You must be a dudebro.

[quote]Gay magazines and organizations should be putting out the message that being a man is not defined by behavior, that masculinity can embrace both the burly linebacker AND the glittery fashion designer, and that being a woman is not defined by behavior, that femininity can embrace both the shopaholic diva AND the no-nonsense trucker. That they are, instead, endorsing the regressive ideology that there can only be one type of man and one type of woman is astonishing and genuinely appalling.

AMEN!

R75, dudebros don't give Ts this much thought.

R77 is right.

R67 is either T or seriously thinking of becoming T.

Not a dudebro and not a T - just a rational realist. "A lot" doesn't mean ALL, and you ALL have gone off the cliff in a fit of righteous indignation. "A lot" is perfectly accurate. She is correct. There ARE "a lot" of gay men who, if they had their druthers, would rather be women. It's as simple as that. It's perfectly OBVIOUS that statement is correct - just go to a pride parade.

Interesting that she chose Juno, of all names. Anyone who's read Virgil's Aeneid will see parallels between the goddess Juno's wrathful petulance, and so many trans women.

What would Juno know about gay men, R79? He says he's a woman so what would he know.

R79, as a "rational realist" then you must agree that a man can never be a woman.

No R67 - a guy should be able to be as flaming as he wants and still be considered a guy. This is why this topic ends up being so divisive. So many people turn it into a rigid binary where if you're not a sports-loving bro you must really be a woman. Absurd. You don't have to like Richard Simmons or Frankie Grande (I certainly don't) but it doesn't mean they're women or want to be women. There are huge grey areas here that people want to reject. Transitioning is a huge step and life change, it's not something to be taken lightly, especially when we don't even know all the (psychological, physical) ramifications.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Richard Simmons has said point blank he is not trans - there were rumours he was transitioning last year when he was snapped in a wig and he was wearing rouge. So what. He was fuming, he is a gay man, of a certain age, who dresses up sometimes I guess. So what? Clothes don't magical properties to alter someone's biological sex identity - Richard knows that, as does every drag queen who ever lived.

R83 - I agree with you 100%. I'm just using those two individuals as examples since they're public and everyone knows about them. I could say "the guy next door who acts like a girl non-stop, always, without pause". Point being, again, you are absolutely right on in my opinion. That doesn't change my opinion that the author of the piece is correct too. Again - with emphasis - "A LOT" DOESN'T MEAN ALL.

Not Trans.

Not Trans.

Not Trans

From the Independent article at R84:

All my life I thought I was a gay man – but according to Juno Dawson in Attitude today, I'm actually a trans woman

I remember the first penis that I ever saw in the flesh (other than my own, of course). I must have been around eight or nine years old, and we had been taken by our youngish male teacher to the leisure centre for a special swimming lesson, the outdoor pool at school having succumbed to autumnal leaves and general sludge. Having no designated area for teachers to change, our teacher was compelled to change with us boys – specifically, on the bench opposite me. Pulling down his trousers and underwear in that brisk business-like fashion that men are apt to do in changing room settings, he revealed his glorious member – and my own responded accordingly. I have seen many, many penises since then, but this is the one I remember most clearly. It's the first time I knew without a doubt that I was gay, although I didn't have a vocabulary for it back then.

Why share this anecdote, you might ask. Well, I think it's important for you – especially if you are heterosexual (most people are, of course) – to understand just how deeply rooted my being gay is part of my identity. This, and other such similar experiences, all formed part of a journey through childhood and adolescence – a turbulent and sometimes dangerous journey of self-questioning, self-discovery, and ultimately self-affirmation.

It's a journey that I'm still on today. Imagine my surprise, then, to find out this morning that I am in fact wrong, and that I'm a trans woman. That's right: Juno Dawson suggests in today's Attitude magazine (a publication boasting a "global audience of affluent, fashion-conscious, brand-loyal gay men") that in fact "a lot of gay men are gay men as a consolation prize, because they couldn't be women." This statement is, of course, quite ludicrous. In fact I would say that it is beyond debate. It isn't really something that can be considered or discussed, because it is so utterly generalising. In a simple sentence it manages to conflate gender identity and sexuality, and dismiss the identities and existences of millions of people as a "consolation prize"...

What interests me more than anything, though, are her motivations for telling us that we are wrong about our sexuality. Dawson of course did identify as a gay man before her transition a couple of years ago, and so perhaps she is motivated to help people who are perhaps struggling with a similar journey. However, if she were for instance asserting that gay men were wrong about their sexuality based on her religious views, I have a feeling that her quote might not have made it to the front page of the magazine. I can’t see “Most gay men are actually straight men, because Jesus” having quite the same success with the editors.

The notion of gay men actually being women in disguise is age-old, and forms the basis for a lot of discrimination and even mutilation today. Consider modern day Iran, for instance, where being gay is considered as being against Islam, but being a woman who likes men is of course not, and so many gay men are pressurised into gender reassignment surgery. This undoubtedly has a profound and catastrophic impact on their lives. It is, quite simply, violent oppression.

In a world where so often it is dangerous just to be ourselves, surely we should be expending our energy on supporting and working with each other, not undermining each other's identities so crudely. That’s why Juno Dawson’s interview with Attitude was so profoundly disappointing.

Hmmmm, R87 / R88 / R89

Glad to know someone let Juno know not everyone agrees with her:his/its point of view. Whatever Juno is supposed to be.

R90 - Another drama queen who doesn't know the distinction between "A lot" and "All". Mercy.

Fuck right off r93. Juno is a homophobic man. You're not fooling anyone with your whining. The idea that gay men are just failed women is deeply homophobic and deeply dangerous. Juno is a clueless homophobic man.

Right, R93? Juno bashed gays without making one grammatical error.

R95 lol!

So, ' a lot of lesbian women are lesbian as a consolation prize for not being men'?

I would not disagree with that statement, R97. I would imagine that there are "a lot" of Chastity Bono types out there who would rather be male, but instead, just live life as a butch lesbian. Is that such a radical concept? Not to me.

[quote] The idea that gay men are just failed women is deeply homophobic and deeply dangerous.

This. As the author of the Independent column points out, saying that gay men were "failed women" was actually used against homosexuals throughout history, and it was with the gay liberation movement following Stonewall that gay men fought back against the concept, and gay media repeatedly rejected the idea and that rejection was subsequently repeated in other media -- I can recall TV shows like All in the Family, Soap, even Carter Country making a point of having characters insist that gay men are NOT "failed women." Soon, the wider mainstream realized this was correct; but now the T comes along with their regressive ideology and we have a magazine FOR gay men repeating and celebrating a concept that we fought against for centuries. It is absolutely astonishing.

[quote] I wonder if the CIA is behind all of these trannies coming out of the woodwork like dormant cockroaches.

There were some CIA experiments targeting homosexuals after WWII, but I can't remember what they were called. I wonder if the parts of MKULTRA that were destroyed before Congress investigated it had anything to do with that.

R98 Stop deflecting. There are three issues here:

1. Juno's generalization of "a lot of gay men" is not only unintelligent, it's something that simply cannot be proven.

2. Her statement certainly doesn't belong on a gay men's magazine.

3. She has admittedly always been a heterosexual woman, which should nullify her statement regarding gay men.

[quote] T is much more harmful than NAMBLA

T is the trojan horse to normalize adult-child sex. Why else would they be trying to make little boys look like JonBenet Ramsey?

"Don't forget the power that gay and lesbians hold: open your mouth."

R16, with your permission, I'm editing your post:

Don't forget the power that gay and lesbians hold: open your wallet.

[quote] She has admittedly always been a heterosexual woman, which should nullify her statement regarding gay men.

No. He's a deeply self-loathing gay man. But it still nullifies his statement.

People like Juno want to have it both ways - to speak as if they are now, and have always been, women, but also to speak as (former) gay men, and thus able to lecture to both. There's a certain power that comes from adopting this position, which is part of its appeal.

I will never read this rag again. I'm an American, but I will let them know that I will not be a party to this self-loathing anti-gay bilge in a gay magazine. What is it going to take to stop this monster once and for all?

Women, heterosexual or not, don't have a penis. That's a great big clue right there. Juno is not a woman and he has no right to claim to speak for anyone else but himself. His feelings, his experiences, are specific to his mental illness.

The fact that Juno once thought he was a gay man doesn't make it okay for him to now make these homophobic statements.

R105 is right. You can't have it both ways. You can't speak as a (former) gay man and as a trans person.

R104 I'd rather prove her wrong without insulting her.

R109 Juno is a man. Stating fact is not an insult.

R79 is too stupid to be believed.

It's okay for Juno to make homophobic statements because T people are "so rare".

R110 But when in discourse with this type of individual it isn't wise to go there. They will deflect and you will be labeled a bigot.

Let them live in their world. I'm more concerned with them covertly bashing gays and lesbians.

Living proof that the transcult is ex-gay therapy on steroids.

The Gospel according to Tranny. They're like religious zealots. No thanks.

I see what you're saying, R113, but fakegendering takes a psychological toll for us "rational realists".

For me, making the effort to fakegender a homophobe on an anonymous message board isn't a top priority.

And you will be labelled a bigot simply for criticizing Juno whether you choose to fakegender or not.

r109/r113, it is biologically and genetically impossible to change sex. I'm not going to pretend that biology and genetics are malleable just because it offends another person's subjective sense of themselves. Allowing for the rejection of reality is a supremely dangerous path, and we see that with the fantasies and lies of the man who is president.

[quote]I'm more concerned with them covertly bashing gays and lesbians.

Covert? They're out in the open about their homophobia and the fact that they are trying to sell this as a cure for homosexuality.

I miss the days of trannies like Octavia St. Laurent, who loved to be gorgeous and feminine but didn't twist themselves into pretzels to claim womanhood:

[quote]A lot of transgendered and pre-op transgendered are a little shocked about my attitude in regards to not wanting to be a woman, and taking that role of womanhood. Iʼm no damn woman, donʼt wanna be no woman. I stand up and piss in the bathroom, I donʼt sit down, you know what Iʼm saying?

Does Juno ever talk about all the Ts who came to realize too late that they are actually gay men?

R119 Octavia was so gorgeous and badass.

R118.True.

[quote]Does Juno ever talk about all the Ts who came to realize too late that they are actually gay men?

There has to be a doc about this out there.

Most people today would call Big Freedia non-binary, genderqueer, etc., but he doesn't feel the need to dress it up: "I am a feminine gay man."

Juno seems to think that the very existence of gay men undermines the legitimacy of a trans identity.

How old is Juno?

I thought Attitude magazine was just a big glossy mag full of nearly naked men.

Who knew there was such rancid shit on the inside.

In July of 2015 James Dawson was 33 years old, R126.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to convert actual years to T years so I don't know Juno's age.

Love this sexist headline from a Glamour magazine profile of Juno.

"Part one: what does being a woman even mean?"

Has any actual woman ever asked that question? The only woman that asks that type of question is a man.

trans=mental defect

Grateful for tweets calling out this fake woman for homophobia.

Applications are down at Mills College now that they accept bio males who identify as female but not bio females who don't.

And of course Target is suffering.

When will those corporations get a clue? T is not a grassroots movement. They didn't dare to meet secretly and risk arrest and worse to gain liberation.

No, this was a top -> down movement. First, they quietly got laws changed...to allow them to CHANGE THEIR SEX on drivers licenses, birth certificates, passports, etc. How they were able to get away with that post-9/11 is beyond me. Especially when I have to remove my shoes at the airport and not carry liquids.

Then, once they had legal documents saying they were the opposite sex, they demanded access to everything of the opposite sex. From Fallon Fox to Jessica Hambrook to Dana Rivers -- Ts have gotten away with hurting women.

Rivers, being a straight man, should have been charged with a hate crime for killing two lesbians and their adopted son. Ts are privileged. Because they are men.

I know that gay men aren't interested in the shit pouring out of this trans-asshole.

Who at GLAMOUR magazine decided to give him a column!?! LOL!

And by the way, the photo at R29 is giving me Billy Crudup flashbacks.

Oops ... photo at R129

She made an attractive man, but now she's a deeply ugly woman.

R134 he isn't 'she'. He is not and never will be a woman, ugly or not. He is now a man wearing a woman costume, he is not a woman any more than a kid becomes Spider-Man when he puts on his superhero jimjams.

Those are the sort of gender rebels I grew up admiring R119. People who defied categories and didn't give a fuck. I find it really hard to wrap my head around the current trans mindset sometimes.

Miss Amber Richards, Miss Continental 1991 (RIP). She modded her body with hormones and silicone, but she (yeah, yeah, technically he) didn't claim womanhood either—she was a full-time queen and had a 10-inch dick that she was quite proud of. LOL

She once said, "Why would I want a sex change? Trying to be a woman would separate me from the gay and lesbian community that I love."

R137 That's sweet.

Miss Amber beats a mug

So done with T.

[quote] [R134] he isn't 'she'.

I don't care for you trying to legislate my language any more than the SJWs doing the same thing.

I will call her what I please, and if you don't like it, fuck off and die.

R141 it's not me that's 'legislating' your language it's the actual language that has rules and meanings. You stated that he was a woman - he's not. Dictionaries have all the information you need, I suggest you look up the meaning of woman and she. You'll find that your usage is wrong in this instance.

If they transition, full surgery, they should be women in the eyes of the law.

I disagree, R143.

[quote] Any man that would be interested in Juno isn't looking for a woman!

Quoted for truth. Repeat this until it sinks in.

Why r144.

[quote] Sadly, The way I see the situation finally being resolved will eventually involve Republicans, not wanting to appear homophobic so they pass laws that cover sexual orientation only, and do not mention gender identity at all.

That would suit me fine.

[quote] Democrats are far too steeped in the SJW quicksand to ever consider doing this.

Quicksand is a good way of putting it. Either get out of it or face irrelevance as a national party.

I like beign a male. who loves another males Fuck you transtrenders !!

Surgery can't make a man a woman, R146.

Juno is not a woman

Trans movement = extremely homophobic

And misogynistic.

We should address transgender individuals with respect!

"Sir" if you were born with a penis, and "ma'am" if you were born with a vagina.

"Your highness" for hermaphrodites and the intersexed.

He is angry because any male want to fuck her

Not getting a period, not retaining water, and not having to wear make-up just to go out in public is a heck of a consolation prize.

[quote]I can recall TV shows like All in the Family, Soap, even Carter Country making a point of having characters insist that gay men are NOT "failed women."

[italic]Soap[/italic] in particular was 40 years ahead of its time in this respect; Jodie Dallas lost the love of his life, a hot football quarterback named Dennis Phillips, by thinking he had to become a woman to be seen in public with him. Dennis didn't want him to do it, so he offered to give up football and come out, but Jodie didn't want him to give up football, so it was not to be. He cancelled the sex change. Even in 1977, they seemed to recognize that there was something inherently sexist and homophobic about the idea that a man in a dress isn't really a man or the idea that a man should have to become a surgically created facsimile of a woman in order to be with another man.

[quote] Surgery can't make a man a woman, [R146].

Perhaps not, but it renders the washroom question moot.

Have you noticed it's the ones who haven't had the surgery and hormones are the most vocal? Real transsexuals just want to get on with their lives.

What about people like Zooey Tur, R156?

I used to think the same way as you but not anymore.

I say thanks to this person for finally bringing to the fore the issue of trans homophobia.

The other problem, R146, is that trans people use their status as "women" to change laws in ways that negatively impact females.

Trans people should have no input in governing the lives of women. They know nothing about women just like this Juno person knows nothing about being gay. Ts need to stick to their own lane.

No false woman will tell me, a gay man who and what I desire.

Did you read the editor's response saying that if you're offended, you're transphobic?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Ben Shapiro vs trans ideology:

Based on one individual r157?

The first mtfs I met were when I was studying at McGill in Montreal, in the 90s. They were waitresses who looked like fat frauen, at a diner at the edge of the gay village. I think it was called Cafe Crystal. They were women for better or worse.

I've known a few others who were without exception suicidal when sexually rejected by gay and straight men but they were all still using NEET on their bodies, and faces, wearing falsies, and claiming to be women, yet had penises. Other gay men I've talked to have had similar experiences. Why would a gay man be attracted to a man who presents as a woman? (I have the same problem with effeminate thinks but whatever) Not me, or any other gay man I know, but friendship would be fine, until they insisted on more.

I feel bad for true trans who have transitioned, that their movement has been hijacked by strident men who claim to be women without doing what it takes to be as close as they can. This Juno person clearly still has a dick, and that makes her a man. Not a woman. Not trans.

And sorry ftms. If you don't have a real dick I'm not interested. And if I'm forced to fuck you, douche your ass because that's how I do it.

Ben Shapiro is the guy that Zoey Tur tried to choke. This was AFTER Zoey had the surgery. So I guess surgery can't magically transform an angry man into a docile woman.

We cant tolerate this type of homophobia coming from a "gay" magazine

No, R163. I came to the realization that thinking a man should be called a woman just because he had surgery is pretty sexist. Ts have nothing in common with women.

They're doubling down.

This media and LGBTQ organisations stopped being run by gays and lesbians. There is now a class of professional identities. They are run by men who are professional gays or women who are professional lesbians. Increasingly, they are run by identities, not people.

The goal of identities is to play identity work games and identity politics and identity role plays 24/7.

I blame their HS and college teacher who didn't tell these dimwits of average intelligence they would be best off learning a marketable trade because their writings and thoughts just weren't all that clever or useful.

So based on Juno's reasoning what is wrong with thinking that transgender women are just failed gay men?

I am gay man who loves other men who have cocks. I am into cocks. I am not going to go for trans-men or be sexually attracted to them.

Nobody is doing any "reasoning" here, its just fetishistic masturbation and word salad.

@r164 that's correct. Tur also threatened to "curb stomp" Ben Shapiro in the parking lot after the show. To which Shapiro made the sassy comment; that's not very ladylike. 😆😂

These false women can mutilate their body however much they want. They wont be real women.

"They are so very much psychotically fixated on all things female, "

sounds like a lot of gay men

The article at R167 is even worse than Juno's article.

"Juno Dawson’s comments might seem alarming, but they could actually help struggling trans kids searching for their identity, writes Shon Faye."

So then why can't a gay man write an article about how he once thought he might be trans but came to realize that he was gay. Wouldn't that help gay kids?

The worst thing about Juno is that he writes young adult books and yet is a very poor role model.

Lets watch as all the trannie ass sucking "LGBT" media rush to his defense.

Ben Shapiro hates fags, so cut it out.

r177, not true!!!

Ts aren't much different with their talk of gay being a "consolation prize", R177.

If by consolation prize you mean no one thinking twice when I use the men's room, no one thinking I'm a sad freak, a dating pool that actually wants to date me, a much lower chance of not being beaten to death with a bat in a back alley, then, shucks I guess I will just have to deal with the consolation prize.

Regarding the article at R167, why did they pick a person who is not gay to weigh in on whether or not something is homophobic? Isn't it a magazine for gay men?

got married to a woman and everything. didn't take. what to do, what to do.

R180 "lower chance of not being beaten to death" - I'm a bit lost on that, do you mean gay men are in more danger or men masquerading as women are in more danger?

There's a continuing line that each and every T are continuously being murdered completely to death three times a day every day and twice on Sundays and are in more danger than anyone else on the planet but I've yet to see any evidence of this.

The backlash against Juno Dawson is massive now.

Ben Shapiro @benshapiro

As a religious Jew, I think homosexual activity is a sin. As a leftist, you don't have to care. Get over it.

...

Now, FUCK OFF.

I'm seeing a lot more articles about trans people committing crimes:

Man accused of sexually assaulting pregnant runaways said he was transgender'

oh we're not going to go down the road of I've been fucked over, so I get to fuck over another, even smaller minority, are we? really? that's our deal?

R184 Good make that asshole get way depressed and disappear out of public view.

and why Ben Shapiro. a breitbart reject. why?

Benny needs a fist up his ass.

As a gay man, there are no words for my anger. Juno Dawson is a homophobe, and transgender ideology is homophobic.

R187, both Juno and this Shon creature are making homophobic statements. They need to shut up and apologize. It's not hard.

They also need to stop trying to be the arbitrators of what is homophobic since they are not gay men.

R187 the T are fucking over gay rights and women's rights. The majority are heterosexual men with a fetish. They are homophobic and misogynistic. Tell us again how they should be a protected species?

species? R193 Species. Think what road you are going down.

A lot of gay men are only gay ass a consolation prize for not being Hollywood screen goddesses.

“I just wanted to get fucked like a woman. That’s what it’s about. It’s not about what hole it’s going in”- Juno Dawson.

A lot of gay men are only gay as a comsolation prize for not being a Pat.

Drop your pearls r194 it's a turn of phrase, nothing more.

In eras that embraced male homosexuality, such as classical antiquity, transsexualism does not appear to have existed at all. It's clear that being a gay man is what's most natural to those men who are attracted to men. It's only when male desire for men is successfully demonized in a society that there appears the idea among some gay men that they'd be treated better if they presented as straight women and not as gay men. This is how transsexualism, an unnatural condition wholly absent among mammals, came to be.

Troll thread trolling for attention for troll OP.

Yawn.

Why don't you first try being more concerned with Juno's homophobic language, R194?

I can't drop any pearls when I think you are going down a nazi road. don't do that.

We're talking about T homophobia, R202, Try to keep up.

what exactly is T homophobia?

I'm sorry, R204. I didn't realize you are slow. Carry on.

A tweet to the author of the article at R84:

Janice‏ @Janice5e 11h Replying to @d0ug7a5 First they came for the women, and I said nothing. Then they came for the lesbians, and still I said nothing. Now they're coming for me ...

Gay men and lesbian women need to speak out and say "Enough!"

R196 Wait, wtf?

That thing does not speak for me.

hatchet face thing, that Juno

The average tranny looks absolutely awful. Gay men, in contrast, are known for being of above average looks. I do not want to exchange that with being an "off looking female-ish thing".

He was so handsome before, why become a women ?

R212 see R196

He never will be a women

Because he's a crazy person, R212. Any man who would try to become a woman is nuts. It's like trying to turn a Mercedes into a Kia.

R215 horrible analogy.

Then you think of a better one, R216.

It's like trying to turn a dick into a pussy.

No, you just turn it into an inside-out dick, and if you want to change it back, then you're screwed.

A lot of transwomen are transwomen because they couldn't hack it as drag queens.

R220, what made you arrive at that theory? Their inability to even hack it with even the hackiest of jokes?

If this asshole wants to internalize it's own homophobia then why not. But why does it have to share it's venom?

Juno was a beautiful roman goddess that was worshiped. This Juno is a torn apart frankenstein monster that will never be a woman.

a real woman

Attitude magazine advertises itself as a gay magazine (it doesn't even use the now omnipresent "LGBT") but for a long while it has provided a platform for queer attacks on gay men. And honestly, it feels like that's what all English-language gay magazines do nowadays - condescend to us, make little of our lives and experiences, paint us as oppressors to all the other "LGBT" sectors.

R224. Dayum! That bitch is cinched! She's at Barbie-level dimensions.

Keep up the pressure on these assholes!

I honestly can't say that I can participate in a boycott. I haven't done more than glance at the cover of Attitude in 15 years. And, I don't visit "queer / anti-gay" websites like they have obviously become; joining the ranks of HuffPost, Advocate, and others.

There has to be some push-back against this kind of long-discredited hate speech. No one can seriously claim that disputing this nonsense and battling against its corrosive effects can be considered transphobia. Being trans is not license to spew any garbage that you want and then complain that your critics are bigoted.

This guy..doesn't get it...

r229 He's the new gay man - has no pride, self-flagellates and demonizes other gay men on cue when queer wimmin demand he do so. He's hypersensitive to whatever gay men say in self-defense but is totally indifferent to how gay men are talked about.

It just occurred to me that islamo fascist and trans ideology share the same self centered obliviousness to the well being of others. And just like the left is forced to be accommodating to Islam and tolerate its intolerance, LGB and women have to accept the same intolerance from trans ideology, lest they be branded transphobic. And just like islamophobia, transphobia has been pushed to the forefront as the greatest sin of all, just like the intolerant attention seeking sociopaths want it.

MtT: - "It's all about ME MEEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! Bow down bitches!"

No, they are just your garden-variety bullies.

They prey upon the weak. Once they attack and notice you don't fight back, be prepared for a lifetime of bullying.

If you comply with one outrageous demand, expect more, and more outrageous demands.

My favorite example was a group of trannies informing the leadership of the Women's March that their cancer funding needs to be reallocated to include prostate and testicular cancer. Oh, and advocacy for anything involving the vagina, uterus, and ovaries is transmisogynistic hate speech. Literally, a handful of men in dresses reducing the funds for lifesaving things like pap smears for the poor.

They can only get away with what we let them get away with.

@r232 that's true, they are just another group taking advantage of this idea that tolerance is a virtue above all others. That includes racial grievance groups, extreme feminism complaining about "sexist air conditioning" and fundamentalist Islam, they all try to profit from general spinelessness.

If "IT’S NOT HOMOPHOBIC TO SAY SOME GAY MEN ARE ACTUALLY TRANS" - then, it's not transphobic to say that trannies are failed gay men who couldn't cut it and caved to societal pressure to conform to gender norms.

The comments on Attitude's FB page are depressing. It proves there is still work to be done. Gays and lesbians need to be enlightened about how harmful trans really is. NOBODY should feel ashamed about who they are. How dare the trans of all people (hypocritical scum) tell gay men that they're just "confused"? It's trans that are confused. Trans is a fucking mental illness. Newsflash: it's impossible to actually become the opposite sex. You cannot change your DNA. You can pretend, you can get plastic surgery and take hormones, you will still be the sex you were born. You are born a sex and you die as the same sex. Pretending gender is a social spectrum is such bs. It's a dangerous and harmful ideology to suppress homosexuality and what the community has fought so hard for for years, to be accepted AS WE ARE. Whether that means a butch lesbian or a femme gay man. We are who we are and deserve to be accepted as we are. The trans community want us to change, they want everyone to fit into their 1950's stereotype of a woman. They have no idea what it means to be a woman, they have no idea what womanhood is. They will never know because they are men. They are not able to have a period or give birth. It's insulting that these mentally ill men can just throw on a wig and think that means they know how to be a woman and can suddenly speak on behalf of all women. Fuck no. Trans is not even proved as a real thing, unlike homosexuality. Being gay is actually a thing, and we are perfectly comfortable the way we are, falling in love with the same sex. We do not feel the need to change something that's impossible to change anyway. I could say I was the Queen of England, it wouldn't make me the Queen of England. Trans people are the last people who should tell gay men who they are. This is the most offensive piece I have ever read. Attitude should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this filth to be posted in their magazine. THIS is why we need to say enough is enough. THIS is why we need our own gay and lesbian organizations and publications.

Fucking preach, R5. They don't realize that this trans person spewing his (yes, he was born a man and will die a man) homophobia will actually make it harder for gay men to come out.

r235, AMEN! Thank you!

R8, I have said it before and I'll say it again: I've never believed in conspiracy theories, but this sudden push for anything trans has me wondering. It's too much like Iran: iradicate all gays by having them transition. It's the modern day gay conversion therapy.

Sorry, I meant eradicate.

r233, what on earth is "sexist air conditioning"?

R340 women feel the cold more than men. So when men get to decide the setting of the AC , because patriarchy, they are sexist towards women.

The previously mentioned Ben Shapiro has written a column in response to the Daily Beast trans writer Samantha Allen:

No, You're Not a Bigot If You Only Want to Have Sex With People to Which You Are Attracted

You. Yes, you. You're a bigot.

Are you a straight man who only wants to have sex with women? Are you a gay man who only wants to have sex with men? Are you a bisexual man who wants to have sex with people of both sexes but only if they are good-looking? Are you asexual?

You're a bigot.

According to Samantha Allen of The Daily Beast, it is deeply "disappointing but unsurprising" that under 20 percent of Americans in a recent survey said they would be open to having sex with a transgender person. That's because, she says, "Cultural acceptance has tended to lag behind formal recognition."

It turns out that according to the left, all sexual behavior is malleable and based largely on social structures that have been implemented by the patriarchy. Men and women don't exist but for their self-perception — we know that a man can be a woman and a woman can be a man, regardless of biology. That's why Caitlyn Jenner isn't just a man with a mental disorder and some plastic surgery and hormone injections; Caitlyn Jenner is as much of a woman as Michelle Obama. The left reasons that if a man can be a woman, then a man who only wants to have sex with biological women must be a bigot — his desires have been wrongly defined by a society that restricted the definition of womanhood to, you know, women. If only men had been exposed to the deeper truth of gender earlier. If only they'd known that some women have male genitalia. Then, perhaps they'd be willing to have sex with biological men who are actually women.

The same holds true with regard to homosexuals, of course. If a woman is a lesbian, it's discriminatory of her to not want to have sex with a man who identifies as a woman. Her desires have also been shaped by her environment. And her environment has drawn a stark but wrong — oh, ever so wrong! — line between biological men and biological women.

R141, what are the differences between a transwoman and a woman?

I mean, one has male reproductive organs. The other has female reproductive organs.

Is it proper that they have the exact same "sex" classification? Even though their sex organs are polar opposites?

Shouldn't there be a word for people with female reproductive organs? It used to be that word was "woman." But according to people like you, bio males are also "women."

So there is no word for people with female sex organs anymore.

That's just stupid.

[quote]THIS is why we need our own gay and lesbian organizations and publications.

We had them, our "allies" stole them from under our noses because we were too horny or too busy dying of AIDS to notice or care. I spent years trying to find a gay organization that was free of the transcult menace and I couldn't find one. Not even Log Cabin Republicans. This needs to change; we need gay rights organizations and publications that are by gays, for gays, about gays AND NOTHING ELSE.

Exactly, R24. They say gay men want to transition, they just don't want "the hazzle". Why not turn it around, why not say maybe fewer people would transition if it was more socially acceptable to be a butch woman or a feminine man?

I bet Johnny Weir transitions next.

R32, and because they want children.

Then put your money where your mouth is, R33. Stop buying Attitude.

Thank you, R72. I really like your post. I'd give you a million W&W if I could.

[quote]Why not turn it around, why not say maybe fewer people would transition if it was more socially acceptable to be a butch woman or a feminine man?

I totally agree (and W&W for R72)—but unfortunately a big part of "socially acceptable" is sexual attraction. You can't legislate that, of course, and as long as it's fine to fem-shame on Grindr, etc., you're gonna have twinks feeling pushed into taking hormones and getting boob jobs so that guys will fuck them.

So many brilliant replies in this thread.

[quote]Gay magazines and organizations should be putting out the message that being a man is not defined by behavior, that masculinity can embrace both the burly linebacker AND the glittery fashion designer, and that being a woman is not defined by behavior, that femininity can embrace both the shopaholic diva AND the no-nonsense trucker. That they are, instead, endorsing the regressive ideology that there can only be one type of man and one type of woman is astonishing and genuinely appalling.

[quote]The idea that gay men are just failed women is deeply homophobic and deeply dangerous.

[quote]A lot of gay men are only gay as a consolation prize for not being a woman

No, gay men are intelligent enough not to be programmed to exist in some kind of sexual-stereotype-based state of denial about one's own anatomy. Most gay men, unlike "author", don't hate themselves and their dick so much that they project their self hatred and their own personal labels onto other gay men which is why "author" is always seeking out "straight" men or "manly" (not them) men to fuck because they'll never be attracted to someone like themselves--which is what they consider all gay men to be, hence the idiotic claim. It seems like most trans people's entire being revolves around "how can I change myself to get this man", "how can I change myself so that I can make this fantasy a reality," "Only women are allowed to dress this way, so therefore I'm a woman because that's how I wish to dress, if I "become a woman", it will be 'okay'", "I don't behave like an accepted male or female archetype, that must mean I'm the 'wrong gender'". It's ALWAYS about something like that. They always have to modify themselves, and call for other people that they share some kind of bond with--i.e. being of like sexuality or whatever--to change as well, or associate every attribute that they associate with themselves with said people, while the people that they idolize, i.e. straight people, go completely unexamined, AS USUAL.

There was this reality show called "there's something about Miriam". It's about a bunch of straight guys fighting over the affection of a ts named Miriam, not knowing she was actually a he. During the show, Miriam explained to the camera, that she is not gay she is a woman, she is simply not attracted to gay men as they are more like her "sisters" and not love interests. I think this kind of thinking drives a lot of effeminate men to transition imo.

Regarding R253, Miriam's male suitors are gay men. It just that to Miriam they seem "straight".

Fucking preach, R102.

R254 no, when they found out Miriam was a pre-op ts, they turned "her" down.

R254 Not gay men, straight and not happy about being set up. these men even filed a lawsuit to keep the realityshow off the air.

[quote] Lawsuit settled, 'Crying Game'-like 'There's Something About Miriam' premieres in UK

[quote] The six straight men who sued to prevent the broadcast of an UK reality show in which, unbeknownst to them, they competed for the affection of a preoperative Mexican transsexual quickly got over their claims of injury and public humiliation in return for a cash payment, clearing the way for the program to debut on UK television last evening.

Use your voice, R106. Send them an email.

Attitude's transformation is complete. Like GLADD and The Advocate before them, they have endorsed homophobia.

There's something about Miriam

It's interesting that the only posts that aren't exact repeats of the usual anti-T crap are FF'ed out and invisible...why are you all so threatened by this topic?

The truth is that there ARE gay men who could easily be trans and probably would be happier with "neovaginas" and living as a "visual woman". I am using that term because people are so caught up that they're not "real women" - yeah duh. Their vaginas and boobs are fake, but they can still get fucked "in the pussy" - and most of them look pretty realistic with facial feminization and modern surgical techniques.

VERY few gay guys like excessively queeny men, and they are relentlessly made fun of on here (except for trans threads, where we have to pretend that everyone in the gay community is treated equally despite being masculine or feminine). It's not surprising that some of these queeny guys think about it being easier to be a woman than deal with all the bullshit from other gay men. They aren't considering the whole picture, but

The allure of straight cock is also something that constantly gets swept under the rug when talking about T stuff. Gay porn searches for "straight" are always at the top. Porn producers pay more for straight guys, and tey encourage gay guys to pretend they're straight. Who gets straight guys otherwise? Women. And again, rejected gay guys can easily fantasize about being a woman to get the (excessively worshiped) straight dick.

This blog has been running for years...it's a perfect example.

As an asian male, this guy wouldn't get anything CLOSE to the big, muscular, masculine, hung, Italians in the gay community. When he gets when he dresses up / pretends to be female, the guys he gets are unbelievable (he deleted a lot recently but you get the idea). And yes, they all know he's a guy and they fuck him in the ass....so you can claim "they're not straight" - or whatever - but the point stands, he'd NEVER get these guys as a skinny, average looking, Asian gay man.

Did the trans community protest Miriam's documentary? It seems to contain all the worst T stereotypes.

@r236 It's from 2004, so before the worst of the looney trans lobbying started up.

Sorry, that would be r263.

That's fine, R261/R262. The problem comes when these guys insist they ARE women and use resources/spaces that are meant for women. Even worse when they try to talk for women.

By trans standards, you're transphobic for saying what you did.

I was going to say, can you imagine the shitstorm a series like that would evoke in the T-Q-SJW world? :)

It got some criticism from some trans groups, but as R264 notes, that was before the trans lobby was a big thing.

Mainly it got panned by TV critics for being a shitty reality show.

Bye, bye, r142. I don't care for your control-freak attitude.

Miriam used to be a member of the drag House of Xtravaganza. She also did shemale porn (as "Victoria") a few years before the series aired and worked as an escort in London a few years after.

R270. Not very ladylike.

Is that the same Miriam that was in Big Brother, pulling the same stunt (pretending to be a real woman to see if housemates would catch on) ? I think that Miriam played "trap" like that the UK version before going on to repeat the schtick on Australian Big Brother.

R261 / R262 has it right. I don't agree with the T agenda but that doesn't make what was said there inaccurate.

[quote]The allure of straight cock is also something that constantly gets swept under the rug when talking about T stuff.

I've brought that point up here several times. Blaire White has a strong straight guy following by making videos that reflect their views - doubtful that would have happened to a fem gay guy doing the same thing. Gigi Gorgeous was getting fucked by Alaska's half-brother Corey Binney. Look him up - how many of you ever had anyone like him? HONESTLY? Would Gigi have managed to snag someone like that as Gregory? I doubt it.

I've known too many gays who shamelessly lust after straight guys and put down any 'gay' mannerisms, even if they had them themselves. It's irritating and encourages this T phenomena. It's a means to an end.

One of the reasons I (straight woman) started participating in DL after years of casual visits is because I enjoy the intelligent, sober commentary on this trend. Trans people have a lot of challenges no doubt but the orthodoxy they want to impose is just one way of thinking about gender, and it seems undertheorized and dismissive of the work done by fellow travelers.

[quote]Is that the same Miriam that was in Big Brother, pulling the same stunt (pretending to be a real woman to see if housemates would catch on) ? I think that Miriam played "trap" like that the UK version before going on to repeat the schtick on Australian Big Brother.

I think Miriam only appeared on Big Brother Australia. Nadia Almeida did BBUK around the same time and didn't reveal that she was trans until after she won.

[quote]And yes, they all know he's a guy and they fuck him in the ass....so you can claim "they're not straight" - or whatever -

Yeah well that's exactly what we'd 'claim' because a man who fucks another man in the ass is INDEED 'not straight' - he is gay. He may be closeted, he may be self-loathing, he may think fucking a femmy Asian dude is 'not gay', but he is gay. A man dressing as a woman who is fucked by a man does not magically become 'a woman', try and understand that basic fact.

That Asian is not skinny by any means

R276, those same guys would not fuck him if he showed up looking like the Asian male computer nerd that he is, though. But, in a wig, silk negligee, and heels, they get turned on. They are not gay. The "label" for these men is "GAMP" actually. They're much closer to being on the hetero spectrum than homo. Most of them on that guy's blog are cheating on their wives / girlfriends. The world is more complicated than gay or straight....sorry to burst your black and white bubble. Here's a research paper all about it.

[quote]A man dressing as a woman who is fucked by a man does not magically become 'a woman', try and understand that basic fact.

Try to understand I never typed that above.

Yeah all these male to female trannies think being a woman means being a whore. I've met a few, many passable,and they're all obsessed about landing straight men. All of them were super homely before transitioning.

If the statement were posted without attribution, every gay person and organization would assume it was made by a rightwing nutbag. They would call it homophobic and hate speech.

If ANYONE else made the statement, they would be crucified in the court of public opinion.

The ONLY reason that it's being given a pass is that it was made by a T. The only defense offered or made was that it was made by a T.

All else is obfuscation and justification. The statement is patently homophobic and dangerous. It gives credence to longstanding and disproven propaganda used to discredit and murder gay men. By allowing the discussion and debate to trail into other points serves to bolster their side and illustrate the T contention of T phobia in the gay community.

GAMP? Isn't that really just closeted or bi or fetishist/some combo?

^ You could just read the results section of the abstract....

[quote]GAMP men had arousal patterns similar to those of heterosexual men and different from those of homosexual men. However, compared to heterosexual men, GAMP men were relatively more aroused by GAM [shemale] erotic stimuli than by female erotic stimuli. GAMP men also scored higher than both heterosexual and homosexual men on a measure of autogynephilia.

That seems to jive with what I said.

So men with 'GAMP' paraphilia are males who are aroused by other males who present in feminine attire. That does not make them 'straight' it makes them paraphiliacs - whose orientation is gay, if they are fucking these males in drag.

How does it make them "gay" when their sexual arousal patterns are inconsistent with other gay men and they have wives and girlfriends who they fuck regularly?

It actually doesn't matter. They are masc & that's all the trannies want. "Straight" masc dick.

Any hole will do as long as it presents female? That is ultimately self-denial/delusional imo. Its some level of bisexuality.

R281 Exactly

It's just repackaged homophobia

[quote] try and understand that basic fact.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

R286 Doesn't sound like gays to me. So yeah, straight.

they're not straight. They're bisexual with a preference for femme partners, female or males

R292 Except they (gamp) are not attracted to effeminate men who present as male. They only like men who pass for pretty women. Bi guys like the way men look, last time I checked. Guys who like transgender women don't. It's right there in the study a few replies up.

What does "gamp" mean?

Someone is really invested in believing that a guy who has sex with guys is heterosexual.

Straight men will never be in a long term relationship with a dude with a chopped off dick in a skirt. They want bio children and a real women not some freaky thing with a manly voice. How bout that tranny fuck.

@r296 Very true. But apparently they would still be attracted to Jessica Alba if she had a dick.

I guess we need to come up with a new term for what used to be called a straight man.

Because straight women don't want to get anywhere near a "GAMP" much less marry one or procreate with one.

[quote]Except they (gamp) are not attracted to effeminate men who present as male

Hmm...they're femme males who dress like women. They don't need to present as male. Like, hello!

So a straight man would be just as attracted to a Jessica Alba who had a dick as a Jessica Alba who didn't?

It's not like there are Ts everywhere. These guys have to actively look past bio females until they find a man who presents as a woman. That doesn't seem like straight behavior.

We got to get some bonafide straight guys on here and run these ideas past them!

I think that some Ts are so used to listening to guys on the DL that they really believe that this is how straight guys actually think.

@r300 well if we go by the study @r283, I'm not sure gay or bisexual is the right way to classify them. They did not react to what the gay men reacted to, however they did react the same as straight men, with liking ts as the only thing that separated them. So that's why they have their own name (GAMP) whatever it stands for. I for one thought it was an interesting study.

Then there was the guy who catfished other guys by pretending to be a tranny on some app (Tinder?) -- they sent him all kinds of dick and ass pics, but when he told them he was a gay guy, they suddenly weren't interested.

The only way the right can help stop this tranny nightmare is to admit that gays and radfems were and are right about human sexuality.

I saw that...was that posted here? My vague memory was that it was craigslist in the M4T section. I tried googling it but nothing came up.

You seem to be getting quite worked up yourself, R301.

As a straight woman I don't care who uses my bathroom. I don't like it when transwomen speak for women and act as if they have some kind of special insight into gender, sexuality and oppression. There's something so selfish about all this focus on identity and feelings. It started in the 90s and it's gotten out of control. Feminists and gay activists need to come together to find a new way to talk about this stuff and pull us out of this third wave sinkhole. It's gone on long enough.

Here in WA it seems that "bigots" are putting forth an initiative to force students to use bathrooms that correspond to their genitalia. Being war-cried as an attack on trans teens.

R306 dismissing it as merely "bathroom" access is enabling mentally ill and/or fetishist men to prey on women and children - how do you feel about an actual real woman being thrown out of a domestic abuse shelter because she didn't want to share her bedroom with a man in a wig?

How do you feel about the entire swim class of little girls forced to get undressed in a toilet cubicle one at a time because a man who said he was a woman was sitting in the communal changing space of the female locker room watching them get undressed? He refused to leave the locker room and the staff had no legal way of forcing him so all the little girls had to make do with one single cubicle.

How do you feel about the two women raped in domestic abuse shelters by a tranny?

It is nice you feel happy to share a public bathroom with fetishist men but not everyone wants to and they are being forced into it. Please don't minimise the abusive nature of trans demands to women only spaces by calling it just a bathroom issue.

If some women feel okay with having males in their bathroom then that is their business. As long as it is not something they push on fellow women.

Many women don't want men in their bathroom or other personal spaces.

Maybe the solution is to have one bathroom for women and the other bathroom for all genders.

Imagine if a lesbian had written: "A lot of transgender women are only trans as a consolation prize for being a woman."

You will have to imagine it because it would never get published; it would be deemed too offensive to the prickly transgender police.

But it is an equivalent sentiment.

It is time for gay men and lesbian women to stick up for themselves and push back.

"Yes, we support your right to define yourself, but NO you may NOT define us."

R310 that won't do it. To them, defining themselves also means defining others

[quote]Imagine if a lesbian had written: "A lot of transgender women are only trans as a consolation prize for being a woman."

That was already said in the first fifty posts.

PAY ATTENTION.

R300, I asked my straight husband. He said nope, he would never be attracted to, nor sleep with, a woman with a dick.

I also asked my bi son. He said no, if he's with a man, he wants a man who is all man. He has zero interest in women with penises.

R308, this comes from MTF transgendered individuals because they lived the first part of their lives as men, and have the entitlement many men internalize.

I'd hazard a guess most FTM's don't press those same "rights".

Me no want a dickless man

Does anyone really think that any of this is going to change the trajectory of LGBT organizations? It's not. They will either defend or ignore this lunacy. And blithely continue on as if this person never made these inconvenient comments. This is moving at a rapid pace with the goal of installing a very tiny minority into the center of the community. The elevation of trans and "gender queer" is the highest priority of the SJW crowd. Gay men and lesbians are being forced out of their own organizations. If you tried to have an LGB-only organization you would be decried as a bigot. On the other hand, trans-only organizations are lauded as wonderful models of inclusion. Bizarre.

No more money, no more support, no more readership to anyone pushing the tranny agenda.

What R318 said. Engaging directly with T, trying to debate with them, is not only a waste of time, it can also be foolish as they will denounce you as a hate-monger and so on. Shunning them is the answer at this point. G and L must silently withdraw from membership of queer organisations, and queer PRIDE committees, withdraw financial support, stop buying, stop clicking on T media. Don't argue with them, silently shun them. Remember, these groups and media need money to survive - and T tend have very little of it.

Dawson's only a tranny as consoloation for being too homophobic and gutless to acknowledge that he's simply one of the many adult male humans who doesn't want to obey sexist stereotype ("gender") rules for men.

[quote]GAMP men had arousal patterns similar to those of heterosexual men and different from those of homosexual men. However, compared to heterosexual men, GAMP men were relatively more aroused by GAM [shemale] erotic stimuli than by female erotic stimuli. [bold]GAMP men also scored higher than both heterosexual and homosexual men on a measure of autogynephilia.[/bold]

Does this mean that these "GAMP" men want to be trans too? Because a lot of trans women are of the autogynephilia type.

Throw yourself onto oncoming traffic darling! You haven't got a chance!

[quote] Does anyone really think that any of this is going to change the trajectory of LGBT organizations?

No, and the reason for that is money. Now that gays and lesbians are more integrated into society than ever and marriage appears to have largely been won (although there are plenty of places in the US and elsewhere where it isn't a reality), the gay orgs have no big ticket items to rally around, and gays and lesbians see them as increasingly irrelevant to their lives. It makes economic sense that the activists whose careers are sustained by the vast infrastructure of (formerly) LGB are looking to broaden their remit by adding the Q (any college student who wants to feel edgy), the A (people who have no interest in sex, which is not and has never been a persecuted orientation), and, of course, the T.

The T, especially the ever-increasing swathes of children who are being diagnosed as trans, are the gay orgs' new cash cow. And because T ideology upends so many basic social norms, from sex segregation in change rooms to the language around biological sex and indeed the very structure of the English language itself (pronoun bullshit), the Ts, unlike the LGBs, are a bottomless source of lawsuits and headline-grabbing outrage for these paid activists.

Sadly, I think you're onto something there, R323. LGBT orgs don't represent their grass roots gay and lesbian members or our gay and lesbian communities, they're run by people who make careers and profit out of campaigning and seeking corporate sponsorship. T activists can bring them infinite complaints to prosecute and TransPharma&Medical industries can provide millions of dollars to push parents to trans their kids and create customers who'll be dependent on them for the rest of their lives..

[quote]VERY few gay guys like excessively queeny men, and they are relentlessly made fun of on here (except for trans threads, where we have to pretend that everyone in the gay community is treated equally despite being masculine or feminine). It's not surprising that some of these queeny guys think about it being easier to be a woman than deal with all the bullshit from other gay men. They aren't considering the whole picture, but

I think it has to do with having a smaller than average dick if this is what you're saying. Something physically feminizing. I don't think it's about mannerisms.

The trans needs to be sent off to the Moon!

No r326 because that would trigger them because it's associated with mentruation and NOT ALL WOMEN HAVE WOMBS!!! (yes they do, shhhh) and *anything* that reminds them that biology is real is an actual physical assault that causes trans to spontaneously combust and murder them completely to death repeatedly.

I could say that the only reason the author became a woman was because she could not cut it as a man and be okay with having same sex desires. She thought being a woman would be easier and now she is regretting it and lashing out

Oh yeah?

Well most trannies are trannies as a consolatiin prize for not having what it takes - for not having the STUFF to make it. They don't have what it takes to be dick-loving men.

I'm a femme botyom with a nice gymnast build, but I hold more grace and femininity in my taint than these bitches do in their entire hormone infested bodies.

Excuse the typos. I'ma bit drunk.

:burp:

[quote]VERY few gay guys like excessively queeny men, and they are relentlessly made fun of on here (except for trans threads, where we have to pretend that everyone in the gay community is treated equally despite being masculine or feminine).

Yep. And you just know some of the ones who rail against Teh Tarns are the same ones who live to put down fem gay men.

Transgender is a meaningless term these days. You have trans who not only don't want to cut off their dicks, they love having one and they like to use it. They even refer to themselves as strict tops. You have to laugh at this shit. Now I fully understand why people accuse many "trans" of being men with a fetish for women's clothing. They are basically gay men (or straight men) who like to dress up in women's clothing, in the past they were called flamboyant but now they call themselves trans. I feel bad for the legitimate transgender people who are lumped in with these people. And just because a gay men is excessively effeminate doesn't mean that he wants to be a woman. A lot of very effeminate gay men still think like men and want to continue being one.

"A lot of effeminate gay men still think like men" - of course they do, because they're MEN. Not one of them thinks like a woman because none of them are women. None. Not even a tiny bit.

R333 Fuck you, triplette!

My pussy is a woman!

[quote]Sadly, The way I see the situation finally being resolved will eventually involve Republicans, not wanting to appear homophobic so they pass laws that cover sexual orientation only, and do not mention gender identity at all. Democrats are far too steeped in the SJW quicksand to ever consider doing this.

That would be a positive outcome. The sad one I can imagine is the Queer Trans orgs, media, liberals, left keep going on and on about Trans til more and more are brainwashed. And more laws are passed that promote trans and harm kids and gay people. It is pushed relentlessly in schools from kindergarten to university. No one can question it. Eventually the Republicans accept it, too because it is after deeply homophobic and misogynist. Then it's over. And the US is Iran.

[quote]No one can seriously claim that disputing this nonsense and battling against its corrosive effects can be considered transphobia. Being trans is not license to spew any garbage that you want and then complain that your critics are bigoted.

That is what they do and have been doing. And laws, media, and schools are now supporting this.

I noticed Advocate, HuffPo's dreadful Queer Voices, etc have not picked up this story, surely because they suspect the blowback.

It was in The Independent but at least they said this:

All my life I thought I was a gay man – but according to Juno Dawson in Attitude today, I'm actually a trans woman 'A lot of gay men are gay men as a consolation prize, because they couldn't be women,' says Dawson, while apparently unaware that that forms the basis for the violent oppression of gay men in Iran

[quote]The comments on Attitude's FB page are depressing. It proves there is still work to be done.

I just checked the messages and most of them are now negative.

Good, R339. When I checked some days ago they were all positive.

R337 That's a good point. They know all publicity is good publicity, even bad. They know there will be a backlash, that's exactly why they're posting it. Angry people clicking on links to their websites.

An excellent short-term tactic, R341.

But, an even better long-term strategy for a magazine would be to go after paid subscriptions from gay men (remember, the ones we've always heard have so much disposable income.)

Oh well, lets hope these assholes go out of business soon and their little stunt hastens their departure.

Fuck that is so true R65. Trannies are nothing but failed gays. Fuck them and all their bitter, fucked up SJW bullshit.

Yes the more I think about it, trannies are so depressed that they dont have an ounce of masculinity in them, and so desperate to perpetuate the notion that straight men are the kings of our society, that they become faux women as a way of appeasing and sucking up to straight men. Fucking cowards.

"Gay Star News" had this homophobic propaganda in it, too

r345 link?

How much worse does it have to get before the rest of the gay community sets aside its differences to stand up to this sexist homophobic nonsense? How many more gay boys must be turned into eunuchs to appease the false gods of the cult of jenn-durr before they are exposed and brought to justice once and for all?

Oh god, the "Cult of Jenn-Durr" queen is back. She posts this in EVERY THREAD no matter how tangentially it is related to the topic at hand. How did you come up with such a creative (?) term honey? At first, I thought maybe there were researchers / trannies with the last name Jenn or Durr, but no... it actually makes no sense. Explain yourself Jenn-Durr queen.

˙ʇ ǝɥʇ doɹp

OK, I'll say it again: They see themselves as "normal" because they are interested in women, whereas men who are not particularly interested in sex with women are the ones who are abnormal, defective, etc. This is their "logic" that prompts such homophobia.

I've always wanted to know what a talented eunuch sounds like, but the civilized world banned child castration a couple centuries ago. There is a recording of the very last eunuch from the Vatican choir but the man was quite old at that point and was never considered to be a very good singer to begin with. Perhaps all the forced tranzing of gay kids will result in a golden-voiced eunuch (though I sincerely doubt it). A guy wrote a book about the history of eunuchs a few years ago and said that they all had temperament problems, which makes sense because the act of castration causes lifelong problems with physical and emotional development. Not a child nor an adult, not a boy nor a man, not even really gay or straight.

My ass IS my pussy.

Here, R346

This "gender" crap, t crap IS a cult.

D r o p

T h e.

T.

The only consolation prize after butchering your body is that you have no dick so I am not into you!

Yes, but are you into people with functioning dicks who otherwise "present as" female?

Are you into insanity? Is sanity a consolation prize?

r357 No

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

R348 is a concern troll and thus a bigot. Punched and deleted.

THe whole trans thing seems sad because it seems to be based on 'passing' and 'transitioning'. And we're all supposed to go along with it. Juno looks like a dude with feathered hair and makeup.

The idea that you can magically 'transition' is just a cruel fallacy.

Is everything going to be stupid now? And the intelligent have to keep quiet?

Juno would be **perfect** for a remake of Joan Crawford's STRAIT-JACKET

It's always some "Look-At-Me" Sexist Fetish name

And their idea of "passing" seems to involve looking as garishly overdone as possible r362. These men are clownish caricatures of women. For every one that looks reasonable there's a thousand Stefonknees.

I find the pic at r360 disturbing. He looks like a half-cat, half-humanoid alien approximation of a woman. In the pic earlier in the thread of him before he transitioned, he looked pretty good as a guy. It's telling that they almost always look better as their original, actual biological sex than they do after they start "presenting" as the opposite sex, yet they believe they look more attractive after the change and are angry when no one wants to be with them. Total divorce from reality.

UK border force details canadian MTF. funny and tragic. I get the sense the London guy is in for a surprise.

Caitlyn: final, sad days

Agreed R334. I had a couple of Facebook friends who are trans and ended up having to unfriend them because EVERY status update by them was them complaining or otherwise spewing negativity. And they didn't just post once or twice a day. It was like updates every two hours so my homepage was over-run with their incessant bitching and complaining. I had to do the same thing with that lunatic Jill Soloway. No surprise trans have such high suicide rates. Miserable lot they are.

R344 I meant. Sorry.

[quote]I've always wanted to know what a talented eunuch sounds like, but the civilized world banned child castration a couple centuries ago. There is a recording of the very last eunuch from the Vatican choir but the man was quite old at that point and was never considered to be a very good singer to begin with

Possibly the bitchiest thing I have ever read here. Poor fella.

Someone showed Miss Crawford a picture of Juno Dawson's feminine shenis

Does Juno still have a dick?

Probably, r374. Most of them do.

I feel kind of bad for Juno, and for other MTFs who are so focused on appearance but seemingly oblivious that their maleness still shows through. It must be tough to be at war with your body and always wanting to surgically alter one more thing.

Magdalen Berns, post-surgery: "You ain't seen nothing yet."

I fucking LOVE Magdalen Berns. She's amazing.

R378 - Why exactly?

because she's brilliant

Because she's brave enough to state the obvious, r379. Hell, no one else is these days.

I love Magdalen Berns, too. She is smart, funny, and fearless.

Lol r372. He was really, really bad though. Doesn't do justice to the rockstar castrati that came before him, but he's the only real castrato that lived long enough to be recorded. I think it's a shame that he, and likely many thousands before him, were castrated even though their voices weren't good enough for it to be worth the costs to them.

The horrific thing is that the T movement is basically advocating the creation of modern day castrati, what with children being tranzed as young as 1.5 and put on hormone blockers to prevent puberty. Even if they were truly T and not gay, the hormone blockers not only prevent their voices from dropping but also prevent their penises from developing, so like Jazz Jennings has learned, there isn't enough material to surgically invert into a fake vagina. It's all so terrible.

Because she's highly intelligent, articulate, eloquent, witty, brave and utterly RIGHT r379.

What was Magdalen's surgery for?

She had a brain tumor.

I can't believe it had to be asked why Magdalen is amazing.

I had never heard of her before this thread, thanks for the introduction, R377.

I liked Magdela a lot before I watched some videos by Prince of Queens (an anti-SJW gay guy on YT.) I love her for not putting up with crazy trans activists and their bs but she's still a crazy feminist. I also love how she reminds me of the schoolgirl from Trainspotting except she's a calm, take-no-shit English woman.

So her and this Prince of Queens guy had a back and forth. In fact, that is how I discovered Prince of Queens. I watched her react video to him first and then I watched his whole videos. And it became one of those things where you catch a person lying about something you know about and have to wonder if they lied about stuff you know less about and just believed it. Also I'm inclined to be more forgiving to crazy trans. D r o p t h e T but do it gently.

Then again, she seems to be inspiring the younger lesbians to remain lesbians so that's great.

Anyway, too bad about the cancer. I hope she's going to be okay. She's so young. ... Also, fuck this deranged alien-feline/broken-gay-guy who thinks we are all failed women and fuck substance-free Attitude. Shitty magazine even when magazines were cool.

They haven't been gentle to her. They even attacked over the brain tumor. Every woman that talks about T gets death threats.

Yes, mentally ill men don't like to be told they're NOT brave and beautiful heroines of freedom and better at being women than real women.

Juno is a really ugly woman.

No he's not. Juno looks unattractive because he has a deluded perception of self and not a clue that the way he styles his appearance does not , in the least, suit his features. At all. If he was prepared to listen to advice, or pay a stylist, Dawson could learn how to not look like a hammerhead shark but being a typical narcissist trans, that won't happen.

He's also not a woman. Not any type of woman. He's a man with shit cosmetic and hair skills, and no honest friends.

Very interesting read about the top-down aspect of the T thing. Centers on Jenner, but applies here too.

It is NOT a hero.

r393 that is whack.

There is an open letter floating about writers, academics, and the likes about the censorship ongoing when women write about gender. It is worth signing as this kind of censorship is beginning to hit our publications as well or, as per the above, we are given waterfalls of such items with nary a questioning of our thoughts on this matter.

Signed.

Boston Pride's Facebook page is an absolute shitshow over this controversy!

they deleted the post in question at Boston Pride

It seems someone critiqued the Juno Dawson article and the Trans Terror Express are now angry

Do these trans people contribute anything of value to LGBT organizations? Cash, medical services, etc? They seem to only take up staff positions and demand services.

Angry is their natural state r399. These aren't reasonable people. You must march in lockstep with their self view as beautiful, brave, tragic, gentle misunderstood souls or face their wrath - death threats, stalking, doxxing etc.

The T agenda is a great tool to sew confusion and skepticism. After all, if liberals are so sure about objective scientific data and facts, why are they supporting the T, when feelz are valued over the biological reality of sex? Evangelicals use the Regressives love affair with T as a reason to dismiss climate science, vaccines, etc.

Evangelicals are stupid because they are stupid and always have been! That is some real twisting and turning you are doing there, R402, to excuse the deplorables for their own longstanding nastiness!

r403, at the very least, it makes us liberals look like thorough-going hypocrites when we mock them for not believing in climate change (or evolution) then turn around and insist that biology and genetics aren't real.

Exactly. At least the "ignorant" "deplorables" can say "pregnant woman." The liberals aren't allowed to.

R402 hasn't excused evangelicals, he just pointed out that they're using the left's boner for T as proof that democrats are denying science, so what else could they be denying? And using this argument to make their own dumb arguments more reasonable. Example: yes, democrats think that climate change is a thing, but they also think that someone with a penis is a woman, so...

It doesn't mean that R402 (or anyone else) is telling them that they are doing God's work in discrediting the left. However, this is how politics work: if one side does or says something dumb, the other takes advantage of that for its own benefit. You know what the best way to deal with it is? For the left to stop being morons. Fight for housing and medical care, fight for people to stop beating others, it will be good for Ts as well, and stop saying that feelings are more important that facts. That way, conservatives will stop using this as ammunition for their own party.

Was with a group of gay guys last night -- all liberal, progressive Dems in their early 30s -- who joked about how perhaps it was time for the LGBs to go it alone, unencumbered. Six months or a year ago, I would not have expected to hear that from any of them.

R407 That's great news

You can't watch Juno and not think: guy. (Or Laverne for that matter.)

We're all being steeped in cognitive dissonance though. Even though we know the vast majority of T don't pass, and cannot really 'transition' biologically/anatomically, we cannot admit that in public for fear of appearing bigoted. What troubles me is that this collective delusion is not helping trans people. It is making them believe in something that other people are lying to them about.

R409, trans people want us to lie to them and they want to lie to us. Lying is part of the T identity.

Men can get pregnant. A man and a woman can be a gay couple. Juno passes as a woman.

Thank you, r404, r405, and r406.

It's time for left centrism to RISE

I am evangelical Christian, and I think gender and sex are distinct. Transgender people are people with brains in conflict with biology. It's not hard to understand

r398 what article did they link to? I'm confused...

[quote]Transgender people are people with brains in conflict with biology.

The only conflict is cultural: we are trained from day 1 that boys behave a certain way and girls behave a certain way. There's no such thing as a brain in conflict with its body. The problem is the beliefs that are forced upon us. That causes the conflict.

r393 I tried to read that article but all that wacky illuminati shit got me lost.

[quote]Transgender people are people with brains in conflict with biology.

Sure, in the sense that they are delusional or heavily influenced by stereotypes, not in the sense that they have a female brain or a male brain. That is bullshit.

R417

Exactly, R415. If you are born with a penis, you're a guy, if you're born with a vagina and a uterus you are a woman, end of. Doesn't matter if you're a femme guy or butch woman, that doesn't make you any less of a man or any less of a woman. This is biology 101. The rest is just gender stereotype bs.

R413, biological sex is real, gender is not. Gender is made up concept based on stereotypes. It's all imagined based on society and how society wants men and women to act. Transgender people buy into this bs. Gay people reject it and see it for what it is.

In my experience, gay M2Ts tend to be more self-aware (Juno excepted, of course), especially those of a certain age who came up in the drag scene. None of the ones I've known actually consider themselves women or have any desire for genital surgery. One of them, a onetime pageant winner in her 50s, prefers the term "full-time queen."

The Lady Chablis called herself a "24-hour girl," but she would also be the first to tell you she wasn't a woman.

r413 Are you hot? I want to put a cock in you!

i've never even thought about my gender before. much less changing it

Gender doesn't exist. It is just stupid stereotypes. Biology is real. People are born male or female.

r424 who cares? gender, sex, its all the same. why complicate it?

It is not all the same. Biology is real, it exists. Stereotypes are not real - and they are stupid and harmful. It is being complicated by some people, unnecessarily. The T crowd and the media are pushing "gender" to make the world homophobic and sexist.

Gay liberation and women's liberation was supposed to be about destroying homophobia and sexist bullshit. Now it is being pushed, a backlash against gay liberation and women's liberation.

[quote]We're all being steeped in cognitive dissonance

Why? Who is doing this? Why is this a political practice? For what purpose?

R427 I want to know who is funding the Trans madness too. As I said in another thread, the Trans Maidens, who call themselves “lib fems” or “fun fems” can be the most ferocious propagators of the Trans Myth. In their defense of men in women face, these young women who claim to be feminists heap scorn on “2nd Wave” feminists, those same wimmin who fought for their rights to get a good job, get a credit card, and not be a slave to their reproductive organs.

Baffling.

Yes, the funding for the "fun" anti-feminists has to be looked into as well. In the early stages of it, porn and porn-related interests and right wingers were funding books and articles against 2nd wave feminists.

I'd love for someone to show the trans funding in a real article but no one would publish it. Gendertrender, but no newspaper or TV channel would. What I think is happening is the "left/liberal" organizations are being used to promote a variety of anti-women, anti-gay, anti-genuine progressive policies these days because people don't expect it from there. I think power is destroying social gains through the left in a very sneaky way.

Why was OP downvoted? He's only warning us to trans lunacy and erasure of ourselves.

One of the gazillionaire Pritzker family is a prominent Granny.

TRANNY (although with his age and looks that fits, too).

WW OP to restore his post.

Trans people are homophobic.

Yep, r434. They're either straight autogynephiles who consider gay men to be "lesser" or self-loathing homosexuals.

That'd be about right.

Media perpetuates the Streisand worshipping gay man. They LOATHE the majority of gay men.

Trannies are some of the most virulent homophobes on the planet. They despise gays.

Wow how Am I just reading about this Juno thing? So nasty and rude!

Trash

I used to work with an LGBT organisation and Juno came to do a talk. Someone who is MTF was there and was telling Juno that I was the first person to accept them and give them the courage to be open about their transition wishes. Juno could barely disguise xhyr confusion that someone like me existed and was happy to live and let live with a trans colleague. I’m big built, bearded and masculine, a gay man with clearly no desire whatsoever to be effeminate or femme or whatever so I didn’t fit into xhyr stereotyped view of a gay man was so xhye just totally blanked me.

R441 Sure, Jan

Loon bump