Waxy "Yellow Buildup at the Snyder Farm

Darling, hire a maid!

Oh, Lucy, darling...you think all those girls didn't each do her share of the housework. Biggest competition of all was Little Miss Seattle vs. Darling Lily to see who could make you see yourself in that kitchen floor. And you should have seen Princess Rosanna and her sister Jarly set to cleaning up those bathrooms.

Yellow buildup, darling? That's between your ears. And your legs.

It would have taken no time at all for Meg to clean, what with the mattress on her back.

That’s CUM on that floor. Those hillbillies do nothing but fuck their siblings.

Emma was too busy baking her Christmas loaves and trying to get some more of John Dixon’s dick. She didn’t have time to clean. Not to mention the burden of all of her adult children returning home to freeload and her whorish former porn star adopted daughter’s spoiled brat offspring always hanging around.

When that little whore Marcy (Caleb’s gf?) made a disparaging remark about Emma’s cheese puffs (I think she said they made her want to puke) I knew she’d never be back.

My original name was Debbie Downer.

[quote] trying to get some more of John Dixon’s dick.

I suspect John had serious BWC.

And, uh, I've fantasized that Andy does too.

I don't know who we have to thank for it, but I'm glad ATWT next played the "Surprise! Bob and Lisa hooked up one more time!" card.

*never* played

Did they ever get back together?

It seems to me they did early on (so I heard) but did Lisa and Bob ever get it on after Bob met Kim?

If I remember correctly, the Doug Cummings storyline was the last time Lisa showed feelings toward Bob. After that their relationship was more like siblings.

I never get any love in these threads. Was it because I was a hot career gal?

Emma had the cleanest kitchen floor in Luther's Corner. Fuck you, Old Lucy. Just fuck you.

You’re ignored r13, because you were a frigid bitch who didn’t sleep in the same bed as her husband.

Oh Nicole, let's not talk about my marriage. Mike was well taken care of thank you very much. Why don't we talk about your marriage to Miles or how you kept getting de-SORASed with every recast.

I can't deal with any of you!

My friend Ada is taking me someplace called The Kit Kat Ladies' Lounge for a nice drink. Don't wait up.

Shut the fuck up and talk about Vee, who’s in the biz, you know. He’s fighting with that NUT KooKoosadora. Her lezzy friends long abandoned the nut.

Geraldine, if you're going to the Kit Kat, be sure to say hello to Denise Cavanaugh. She's a regular there.

Kit Kat Ladies' Lounge?

Sounds like a lovely place to have a drink and make new friends.

If you're at the Kit Kat, I'll be bringing my guitar and performing a few numbers for the crowd, but that's the only performing I'll be doing, ladies (in case you all had other ideas).

Hi fellas I'm Deborah, I mean Suzette Saxon, just passing through on my way from Monticello to Springfield...

Meanwhile, I'll be loosening my tie and dancing around with my friend Reva to celebrate Pride Month at a little place called The Tool Shed. Come see us!

Jo, I'll be at the Kit Kat on Thursday. Do you know Bye Bye Blackbird?

Ada Hobson is slinging her dish towel at the Lobo Lounge. Maybe Mariel Hemingway will give her a kiss.

Nicole, dear,

You may be younger thanks to constant de-SORASing, but don't forget that I was the first to get Miles to the alter. No amount of de-SORASing will change that.

If you feell the need to discuss this, you can find me at the Kit Kat Ladies Lounge.

I have no doubt, you'll find Miles at the Manhole. Or the Eagle.

Caio, for now,

How come I've never been invited to the Kit Kat Ladies Lounge?

I positively adore the Kit Kat Ladies Lounge. My favorite place to go for a drink.

Plenty of new friends to make there too. The ladies there know me by so many names though. Hard to keep up with where they all know me from.

I remember when my mom stopped watching GH for GL. I thought GL had better qualities.

Denise, Miles and I had the kind of love you'll never know.

So many snatches to be eaten!!! Yum yum yum!!!! Pussy hounds Geraldine Saxon and Ada Hobson and Lez Matthews.

Miles might be at the Manhole, but Derek will be at the Eagle!

For Thérèse @ r24:

The Manhole sounds like a fantastic bar. Should be a great place for a few drinks. With luck, a good place to start new friendships.

Believe me, Dad @ r34. It is!!!!!

I'm there all the time!

This pinged on my Grindr when I was in Bay City.

Username: UnderhillTerraceBtm

"Hungry btm looking for DP experience. Daddies preferred, but all Cory men welcum!"

Never forget, I only sold my services to the ladies.

Now that would have made an excellent storyline, r36. I suppose Steven Frame II might have been living there by now. And we've seen how convincing a Grindrette Spencer Clark could play.

R38 I meant Jamie but Stephen works just as well - even better!

Did someone say the Manhole?

*claps hands in glee*

I wish I'd made it to the Manhole before I fell to my death.

Even [bold]I[/bold]thought Perry was a cutie.

Oh, how I wish that clip from 1999 of the men of Another World dancing would resurface. It was a kooky little interstitial at the end of the episode that came across like a commercial for a gay bar.

Search for Yesterday darlings.

Henry Chamberlain @ r40.

Let's go make an evening of it at the Manhole.

Nobody ever invites me out ...

R45 Palmer Cortlandt? Is that what you're calling yourself these days?

I've got a long memory, Pete - or should I say, "Cornhole Cooney!"

R47 = Henry "Hung Hank" Chamberlain

Palmer and Henry,

If you all are having a Boys Night Out at the Manhole, can I tag along? Manhole is always great fun.

I can assure you Brian was never at this Manhole establishment when he was married to me.

I took Cass and Felicia to the Manhole a few times. Despite being awash in attention, Cass demurred, though he seemed flattered. The fellas mostly ignored Felicia -- but not because she was a woman. I think they mistook her for a drag queen. One guy even said to her, "Peel off the makeup, buddy, so we can have a look under the hood."

I'm surprised no one copped a feel on Cass. Those flat front suit pants he wears always present some very appealing VPL!

Okay sixes and sevens, a ten is talking.

Ten plus, and if you're nice, I'll let you bring your measuring tape.

[quote]Those flat front suit pants he wears always present some very appealing VPL!

Darling, you have no idea.

Oh Philip...I've got a measuring tape!

It's called "my mouth."

Odd that they never gave Cass an illegitimate kid, He was supposed to be a ladies’ man, although hanging out with Wallingford and Felicia made him seem like a big queen.

They gave him an illegitimate kid. They made Maggie, Cass's kid. A horrible, horrible and nonsensical rewrite of history.

In real life, Felicia Gallant's best friend would definitely have been a gay man. Only a gay man would have been able to put up with Felicia's extremes and eccentricities and be able to match her flamboyance.

The way the show constantly having Cass say that Felicia was his best friend, I often wondered if this was code to say he was really gay or bisexual.

Few straight men would have been able to appreciate Felicia in all her glory, much less play cheerleader for her.

R58 I think there were certainly hints that Cass could have been bi or at least open minded. I mean, there was Crystal Lake....

r57

Who was Maggie? I'm blanking...

Maggie Cory, Cecile and Sandy's daughter.

r61

thank you... they made her Cass's daughter instead of Sandy's?

They did.

[quote]In 1996, Cecile revealed that Cass Winthrop was Maggie's biological father. She got close to Cass very quickly and was overjoyed that she now had a father that showed interest in her. She was devastated when a few months later Cecile pulled the rug out from under her by telling her that Cass was not in fact her real father.

Cecile tried to claim Maggie was Cass’ daughter, but Cecile admitted that was false.

Thanks for that update R64. I had completely glossed over that part. I just remembered the original rewrite where they did flashback of Cecile meeting Cass on a cruise. I didn't realize they retconned the recon.

Cecile. *eyeroll*

No more needs to be said.

[quote] I didn't realize they retconned the recon.

Who did they think they were....the writing team of As The World Turns?

Originally, Maggie was thought to be Jamie's child.

During their divorce hearing, Cecile shocked the court by announcing that Jamie Frame was not Maggie's father, that Sandy Cory was. It was a big Friday cliffhanger.

One of my biggest pet peeves on soaps is when they retcon stories that actually played out on screen. I don't care about the stuff that happened off screen, but if you're going to rewrite what we saw, then it had better be something compelling that makes sense.

The only exception in my opinion to that r69 was Viki’s DID story from the 90s. Giving her more personalities and making Victor Lord a child abuser made sense in my opinion; otherwise Viki was an uptight woman who would put on a wig every few years and pretend to be the town tramp for a few months.

One of the worst examples of a show ignoring history was on ATWT, when they made Dani and Craig lovers. Everybody thought Craig was her father for a year and he always had paternal feelings for Dani.

[quote]gnoring history was on ATWT, when they made Dani and Craig lovers. Everybody thought Craig was her father for a year and he always had paternal feelings for Dani.

Sort of like when GL had a de-SORASED Alan-Michael romancing Marina Cooper?

Back in the days when Rick Hearst was playing the role, A-M and Frank were competing for Eleni's love. Marina was the part of a Who's the Daddy storyline.

[quote]I can assure you Brian was never at this Manhole establishment when he was married to me.

Au contraire, Iris! You're the reason Brian started going to the Manhole. Men have needs too and they're not always on the same schedule as that of demanding divas.

Louise Goddard covered for Brian during his Manhole adventures. Whenever Iris asked her her husband was Louise would change the subject to the health of her rhododendron Clytemnestra.

Funny, I don't remember "Hung Hank" Chamberlain.

But I **do** remember "Helium Heels" Chamberlain!

Glass houses Chief Mallory. Glass houses.

Sky, let's you and me go grab a drink at the Manhole.

Kelly? I have an envelope for you to drop off at Mr. Chamberlain's, do you mind?

Oh....no need to put on your jeans. Just your Speedo will be fine, I'm sure he won't mind at all.

I don't have a clue what you all are talking about.

My shows only had real men, I got rid of the mouthy unfuckable broads and swishy fags as soon as possible.

Femmes drink free at the Kit Kat Ladies Lounge on Tuesdays from 5 - 7

Yes, Bert, please get that envelope to me right away. Have Kelly bring it immediately. I'm sorry if he's at Laurel Falls swimming with Tim Warner and Floyd Nelson, have him come immediately. I'll be sure to tip him VERY WELL.

PS You're right, that envelope is much too important to wait for Kelly to put on his jeans. His Speedo will be fine.

Mr. Chamberlain,

I came right over to bring you this envelope. I hope you don't mind. I didn't have time to change out of my swinsuit.

From WSPR, breaking news:

Businessman Henry Chamberlain was taken to Cedars this afternoon by ambulance after an intense attack of what his daughter Vanessa called "the vapors."

Mr. Chamberlain is currently recovering and is expected to be home shortly.

I'll hold Henry's envelope for him until he gets home.

And if Kelly needs me to hold anything, I'll help there, too.

Bert, Bert, I was supposed to receive a copy of the information in that envelope as well. Please, please have Kelly bring it to me immediately. I need it yesterday.

It's vital that Kelly brings it to me.

Palmer, you old coot. Leave that poor boy alone!

Marc Maron reposted his Ray Liotta interview from a few years ago. Liotta talks about his time on AW and singles out Kathleen Widdoes (Emma, ATWT) as an excellent actress!

Daisy,

You're welcome to come to the Kit Kat with me tonight. It will be much more to your liking that some downlow going to the Manhole on his lunch hour.

Lots of new friends to be made at the Kit Kat.

Kit Kat club?

Well, meow!

Kit Kats are my favorite kinda candy. Sounds like a good place to find something to ... munch on.

Ada,

I understand my wives Denise and Nicole are going to the Kit Kat tonight. Please keep an eye out for them and make sure they have a good time.

Sky Whitney and I are going to the Manhole. We're meeting Alan Spaulding and Hal Munson there. We won't be back until long after the sun comes up. But I do suspect quite a few other things will be coming before the sun comes.

I would deliver the envelope, however for some reason speedos don't provide me with enough coverage. Not sure how Kelly does it. *snicker* I wouldn't want to get arrested.

I'll be at the Manhole, after sundown - of course. I work in Bangor during the day, you know.

R92 They don't make Speedos with steel girder support......

Miles,

I may not be the one to ask if you really want your wives to be carefully watched. I'm on the hunt, and I hear that Holly Lindsey, the dishiest broad I've met in a long while, may be there. There's something about a neurotic dame that really gets my clitoris jumping!

I think this will be an easy kill. She's always had problems with men -- especially Roger Thorpe -- that creepy ex-husband of hers. If I play my cards right I'll be flossing red hairs out of my teeth tonight.

Wish me luck!

Phillip, Yes, Phillip,

I also was scheduled to get a copy of the contents of that envelope. I can't imagine why Kelly is late in delivering it. Must have gotten held up at Palmer's.

Please, I need you to bring me the envelope right away. Speed is of importance. Just as Speedos are too. If you can't fit into a Speedo, perhaps I can help you with that. Come right over and we'll work on that.

PS If my wife answers the door, just tell her you saw That Ordway Creature out by the above ground pool. That will distract her.

Sky Whitney was at the Manhole when I was last there, but he seemed to be trying to pretend it was his first time, and introduced himself to some young twink as Kevin...no, wait, Kyle. Kyle Sampson.

I saw Will Jeffries there last time too. He may be weird and mysterious but he can fuck like a champ. Just hope he leaves his weird lady friend at home. Sonni, or Solita, or whatever her name was. I called her Spooky Sally to her face and she hissed at me.

Do they have pillow fights at the Manhole?

R98 They'd eat you up and spit you out, Luke.

Just like I wished I had. Rowr.

Brian Wheatley at r99

You're not fooling anybody. We know you're really Greg Nelson. You've been going under aliases for years. just to hide from your overbearing mother, Enid. For a while, you were going by the name Jamie Frame, Later, you used the name Sam Rappaport.

Whatever name you're using, we know you and Tony Barclay planted that bomb in that jet ski so you two could be together.

Phillip, I have the same issue with not being able to find speedos that fit properly.

Breaking up the fun for just a moment, did anyone else catch today's 1989 episode of OLTL? It honest-to-god climaxes with Jon Russell going all middle-school on Max Holden and getting him to admit in front of everybody (including poor Megan) that yes, he loves Gabrielle and he always will. Max even through in a Karen Wolek-style "is that what you want me to say?" I just about MARY!ed with a combination of secondhand embarassment and bliss.

Okay, now back to our verbal cosplay.

r103, here's hoping Matthew's covert peeks are at Danny Markel, not that Kelker-Kelly Kunt.

r102 You seem to be on the wrong thread. Here's the OLTL thread

Yeah, I almost posted at that one, R105, but it seemed like conversation was dying out and heading toward the joint thread. I'll be honest, R104, I'm checking out any Sam Fowler before the country music singing one.

I had no idea Wendy Moniz (Dinah-GL) was on ‘Yellowstone’ playing the Gov and Kevin Costner’s girlfriend. She had a lovely Locher Room session.

All of the shows were terrible when they dropped THE from the titles! TGL was NEVER the same after that and when they fired Fat Ed!!

Which ATWT actress has won two DUIs and zero Emmys, but several noms?

r107, Wendy Moniz is also playing a judge and Dylan McDermott's love (or sex) interest on FBI: Most Wanted.

Dylan makes the show so much more watchable than Julian McMahon, who may suffer from PSS. Dylan is such a good guy. I hated that L&O: Organized Crime had him playing a villain. I hope that is over (I stopped watching; not a Chris Meloni fan like some of you).

I bet that girl who played Dee (the blonde singer at The Supper Club) was giving head to Paul Rauch.

R87 I listened to that and indeed he did mention KW.

He also briefly mentioned Paul Rauch, saying that Rauch usually went to Broadway shows to cast roles (which we knew) - I think he said for more short term roles, and he'd promise the actors that he'd get them out early enough to be at their theater in the evening for performance.

R70, I 'm currently watching OLTL 1993. Sloan Carpenter's bio of Victor Lord, Lord of the Banner, has really upset Viki. The bricks for Viki's extra personalities are being laid during this storyline, and oh so subtly.

Slezak is playing the beats to perfection. She's not been over the top ATALL (so far). Strasser's been overacting in her role, though. She's panicked that Cassie learning she may have killed Victor Lord Sr. will make her lose her daughter. It's all so delicious. Luckily, overreacting is some of my favorite dessert.

When the the show's true supercouple was once again locked in Victor's secret room (to celebrate the show's 25th anniversary) I appreciated the callbacks, the flashbacks, and the flawless plastic surgery.

Once again, below is the link to the OLTL thread.

This is a P&G thread.

Let's not get snarky, darlings. It's been lovely here of late.

Ada's Dish Rag is a valued member of the community. (But seriously, ya crusty old bitch, try to keep it to the marvelous Midwestern towns here. Those Main Line hussies can discuss their biological twitchings elsewhere!)

I love Ada’s Dish Rag!

NEW TOPIC

Why did the Dobsons leave ATWT only to return a year later? And were they approached about returning to GL in the 90s after Santa Barbara ended? They loved writing for Guiding Light.

R116 I'm just guessing here, but I think once the Dobsons wrote without P&G up their ass, they probably wouldn't have wanted to go back to dealing with sponsor and network both.

And both P&G and CBS would have been far more up their ass in 1993-94 than they had been in the late 70s/early 80s, when HWs were, with few exceptions, given more free reign.

I thought Lacey Bauer was cute. She had big eyes.

LOL. That actress was just so terrible. I could see someone like Sarah Michelle Gellar (but of that age/time) tearing up that role and making her a little bitch.

Well, when Santa Barbara was cancelled in Jan 1993, JFP was still the EP of GL. No way would she have invited the Dobsons to be HW of GL and no way would they have accepted. Far too much animosity for them to ever work together again.

By mid 1995, JFP was gone from GL. No idea why CBS or P&G didn't try to get the Dobsons back at that point. Maybe they did and the Dobsons declined, burned out on network interference after their battle with NBC over Santa Barbara.

The other consideration is that Doug Marland died in March 1993. Why didn't CBS and P&G approach the Dobsons about taking over ATWT at that point? Maybe they did and the Dobsons declined. They surely would have been better than some of the drek that came in the post Marland years.

My apologies, Midwestern soap viewers. I'll keep my musings regarding Llanview in the Mid-Atlantic soap threads where they belong.

But before I storm out, waving my dishrag behind me, I have one thing to say:

[italic]Fuck you, Lillian Raines! You remain as pathetic today as you did during my first watch nearly thirty years ago. Ed might not be much, but he's a married man. Have some damned dignity, bitch!

And as for Ed, you can go to hell too, and take your bald spot and pursed lips with you! The fact that the two of you have me feeling sorry for the most boring woman in all of SoapLandia is really pissing me off.[/italic]

Ada's Dish Rag, you have made us a suburban joke.

And I love you for it! ❤️

Come sit next to me, darling. I have some good tea to pour! ☕️

Did you see what Kathleen McKinnon was wearing? Does she not OWN a full-length mirror? 🪞

Bridgie was a raging alcoholic by the 2nd time she was fired from SB. No one wanted to hire her. And poor Jerry was just her yes man. Bridget certainly wore the pants in that family.

Hugs, ORD.

I miss our shows so much. Do today's writers have dialog that's so apt, campy, and worth repeating?

[italic]Sighs in Ada Hobson-esque exasperation while staring into the distance, searching in vain for my cue cards...[/italic]

Ada's Dish Rag -

They seldom do - any retorts seem to be created for the vocal fry generation.

In the Christmas Eve 1985 episode, Lily chastised Holden for dragging wet boots into the Walsh living room.

Later, she's oblivious to the fact she's dragging her wet boots into the Snyder kitchen.

Cut back to the Walsh mansion -- Lucinda walks in, no one's there and she looks down at the carpet and goes, "Eeech...!"

Classic ad lib.

We were spoiled.

Liz Hubbard was/is a genius.

I'm going to assume that the Dobsons were a little bit tainted with that NBC lawsuit, being locked out of the studio and off their own show mess and no one else wanted to touch them. GL was at its 's best in the early 90s and going through a renaissance. Another World was very good from late 88 until about 91. I'm not sure what was happening on ATWT during that time.

[quote]—That Ordway Creature

r128. Brava!!!! Love your handle.

Hope Iris invitest you over to sunbathe with her society friends by her above ground pool.

Dear Emma (r128),

ATWT was in the middle of a very high point then, too. It was the middle of the Marland years.

"That Ordway Creature" was NOT Steve Frame's sister Emma Frame Ordway.

It was Emma's daughter Molly Ordway, who is also Frankie Frame's sister.

Iris started referring to Molly as "that Ordway creature" when Molly was dating Dennis. Naturally, Iris was not happy about this pairing and worked to break them up. In the end, they did breakup and Molly moved on to start dating a not-gay Mike Randolph. Ultimately, Molly and Mike married, but split up less than a year later.

Rolanda Mendels looked a lot like Julia Louis Dreyfus. Blaine Ewing was an improved version of Molly Ordway.

Cynthia Watros and Laura Wright were on the Locher Room today. I think Alan's finally been listening to critics who've questioned his interviewing style. Most of his questions were from fans, therefore, we didn't get any of that "Who did you audition with" bullshit.

Ada - shut the fuck up! Please and thank you.

He's also interviewed Cynthia and Laura before, so he couldn't pull the "first day" shit.

Your wish is my command, R134. Sorry for any inconvenience my chattiness may have caused you.

R136 Ada's Dish Rag, you are always welcome here.

Ignore the mentally ill loon at R134. FF any post it makes, block it, and as Depeche Mode would say, enjoy the silence.

I like you, too, Ada's Dish Rag. I mean, it's not like you posted about OLTL. Long may you wipe.

Did you prefer Jane Elliot on gh, amc, gl, or days?

It saddens me Cynthia Watros is reduced to daytime soaps again. She was really successful in primetime then it is dissipated.

R140 it saddens me more that the writers at GH hasn’t had her go full crazy yet!!!

Yeah, she didn't quite get there with the trial. I think when Sonny and Carly reunite and become all hunky dory again, that's when Nina will get a bad case of the Annie Duttons and freak the fuck out.

Shit, I might watch GH then for THAT.

Thank you, R137 and R138 for the kind words.

I didn't take it personally, though. I realize that Mr. Locher may have just needed to blow off a little steam. I'm an easy target. Being told your interviews suck, especially after you've been doing them for two years, is bound to make anyone a little nuts. It's okay, Alan. Know that you are loved ... by someone, somewhere.

I've never watched GH, but if I ever hear about Cynthia going Annie Dutton-style cuckoo again, I'M SO THERE. Annie was Guiding Light's last gasp, IMO. After that, we got clones, and Santis and San Cristobel and not one motherfucking effective replacement for the underrated Rick Hearst, who, I feel, was needed just as much as Grant Aleksander.

Ugh, Watros is terrible on GH, as is the storyline surrounding her secret/dead daughter/daughters/blah blah.

I was in college, and sharing weekend phone calls with my grandmother about Another World in 1993, when Lorna was revealed as Felicia and Lucas' daughter. This is the kind of acting (and writing) you won't see on daytime soaps today.

Cynthia and LW were on the Locher Room yesterday and talked about this episode as a tribute especially to JvD.

I saw a scene with Jerry and Mary Stuart.

I wept.

or 1992.

R144

Good shit, R144! I love Felicia Gallant! My earliest AW memories are of Felicia, Cass, and Wallingford involved in some kind of caper.

Lorna Devon is one of my first crushes that made me realize I might not be like other girls. So gorgeous! And a powerhouse. Alicia Coppola and Anne Heche were two of the finest actresses to grace Another World from ANY age group.

One thing I've always wondered about storylines like the above: Soaps usually make it so that the mother and daughter hate each other. Cool. Builds drama. But I always hated how after paternity (maternity?) was discovered, within a few months to a year, they were best friends. I really wish a soap had taken the time to let that storyline play out over three to five years. Discovering you share blood doesn't mean you'll automatically love each other.

R147 Ada, you're right.

GL messed that up when they original did the Dinah is Ross and Vanessa's kid circa 1985-86. But I think there were producer/writer changes in there that messed that up (if I recall correctly, the original daughter was Jessie Matthews). When Dinah was revealed as Vanessa's, she was sorta mad for a short time and that was it (they also recast Dinah, which didn't help).

GL was right to restore the edges a character like Dinah would have once she returned in 1995.

You're right, R148. I loved the two Dinahs I watched. Wendy Moniz and Gina Tognoni were very believable in their portrayals of the resentment and abandonment Dinah felt. Wendy's version was hell on wheels, willing to run over anyone who got in her way. Gina's version spun her wheels on the road to redemption, with several crashes along the way. But I still believed she wanted to do better.

Didn't GL do something similar with Alexandra/LuJack and later, Alexandra/Nick? Big show of distrust and not seeing eye-to-eye, then a grudging respect? Then hanging out? I wasn't around for LuJack, but just on the strength of the way Alex treated Mindy, Nick should have still avoided her. Plus, the chemistry changed when Dusay took over. Not bad chemistry. Just different.

I've seen this very same storyline on so many other soaps (that I won't name, in fear of being banished to the Mid-Atlantic thread, yet again). Unfortunately, I've never seen a writing team get it right. I think they were too afraid to upset the traditional frau audience who wanted family members to get along, even when they had very little in common.

Oh wait. I did like the very slow build AMC took with Erica/Kendall. But that was necessary for several reasons.

[italic]*Runs screaming from thread with angry Midwestern separatists on my heels!*[/italic]

Ada, dear,

You're certainly welcome here. You're adding some wonderful memories and insights to our Marvelous Midwestern Cities threads. Thanks for sharing them,

It's perfectly OK to mention non P&G shows on our P&G threads. We certainly aren't going to deny they exist. Those shows get mentioned in passing here frequently. IN PASSING.

They key is not to go into any long detailed detailed discussion about the non P&G shows here. If you want to discuss those non P&G shows in detail -- the nuances of a storyline or the particulars of a performance -- that should be done on the thread devoted to that show.

There are usually threads devoted to each of the soaps. If you can't find a thread, ask one of us to link it. Or start a new thread devoted to that show.

Oh, I know, Aunt Liz. I was mostly poking fun at my biggest fault -- my tendency to ramble. I just have to remember which thread I'm in before I get started.

I enjoy your posts so much. Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

I really love these threads. They’re always pleasant and peaceful so long as the SON troll doesn’t start up.

Well, like COVID, that troll is among us. But a little vaccination (letting people know to FF it and block it, and withhold the attention it so desperately craves) keeps us all sane!

As long as you have all four of his accounts blocked, r152, you should be able to avoid spicen.

I've always thought the Tracy Q was Jane Elliot's best role. She played that the longest of any of them and could make Tracy a devil when she wanted to.

Her next best role was Cynthia on AMC in the mid 1980s. But Cynthia was, in large part, a clone of Tracy.

Her roles on Days as Angelica and on GL as Carrie never seemed fully fleshed out. Perhaps if she'd had more time to play the roles, she would have found the characters better.

R155 I loved her stint as Tracy on The City where she ended up running the mob. When she came back to GH she should’ve taken down Sonny.

R143 so you weren’t a fan of Joan Collins’ GL stint, then?

R157, To be fair, I wasn't watching the show regularly then. I've since watched a few clips online.

Joan was fine. I think I would have liked her stint better if she'd been someone not named Alexandra Spaulding, but she was okay. Her version of Alex seems to have spent way more time in Europe than Bev's did because Joan could give a fuck about attempting an American accent.

That said, I do believe Joan felt more like Alex than Dusay ever did. It's funny. I actually liked Dusay's Alex, but she could be just a tad hammy. A bit over the top. In the show's last days, whenever Dusay and Ron Raines were in scenes together, I kept waiting for one or both of them to burst into song. They had a comic energy about them. I always thought it was sad that they played siblings because of all their pairings on the show, I always believed that Marj and Ron had killer chemistry.

Ron Raines was so wrong as Alan. How are you a billionaire who's so pathetic you can't even buy pussy? He had the saddest, most pathetic love life of a wealthy CEO I have ever seen. Those last years with Beth -- who would rather fuck sad sack Rick then powerful mogul Alan -- said it all.

*than mogul Alan

*Oh Dearing myself*

Some of Alan's absolute saddest days were when he was Annie Dutton's purse holder.

Ron Raines and Cynthia Watros had great chemistry, so the pairing had potential. But then, she had great chemistry with virtually everyone. However, as the show let Annie get loonie and loonier, Alan was relegated to just tagging along with Annie and funding all her whims. I kept going, "Oh, how the mighty have fallen Alan."

Let's just say the topic of the recasts of Alex and Alan have been, shall we say, a well worn path on this board! I would say some of the most frequently discussed/controversial recasts are:

Dusay as Alex

Raines as Alan

Liz Keifer as Blake

Kelley Menighan as Emily

Any of those will result in 40 posts of passionate discussion.

My two cents on all: You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger McKinsey fan than moi, but I really liked Dusay's first stint at GL. It was what happened after that just puzzled me. Part of that was writing and direction (or a lack thereof). Part, I think, was Marj just not being able to quite shake off Vanessa from AMC.

I mostly loathed Raines; something about the pairing of Alan and Annie worked, though. (And Bernau's Alan was just so unique, as was the sort of Dark Shadows Gothic-y chemistry Bernau and Bev had together.)

I actually loved Keifer as Blake but I can see why others preferred Sherry.

I liked Menighan, but I was sort of agnostic about Emily, I could take her or leave her.

LOL R160 funny that you and I mentioned the same thing but had two different takes on it!

[quote] Kelley Menighan as Emily

Not only was she all wrong for the role, but she was a horrible actress. That humming thing she always did when the character was crying or nervous or breathing made me laugh out loud.

I say this as someone who grew up with her as Emily. I would only see Melanie when they showed an old episode at Christmas, and now I see her on YouTube. Melanie was terrific.

In the case of both McKinsey’s Alex and Iris, the actress(es) who followed may as well have been playing a different character altogether. Bev was that singular, what she did could not be replicated.

I liked Annie and Alan too! I always enjoy couples who are a little devious but know it. I like when they're both aware of why they're together, especially when it's not based on true love. One of my faves of this model was Jerry verDorn's Clint and Kimberly Andrews from OLTL. They were sexy and fun.

I liked Marj during her first run. I'd only been watching GL for about a year when Beverlee left, so I wasn't that attached. Unfortunately, when I remember Marj's portrayal now, it's always the over the top moments. It's a shame. With better direction Alex could have remained a powerhouse.

I'm with ORD in my love for Liz Keifer's Blake. I LOVE Sherry as well, and if I could have had them both on the show as different characters, I certainly would have. I really dislike how the show turned Blake into Ross's little wife and baby mama. Sherry's Blake was all about her job. All she cared about was her grind (and whatever man she was after). She lost that with the recast, and I think it sidelined her character. When I think about Blake now, she's a simpering sexpot, helpless to keep her vibrating vag away from the likes of Rick and Ben and anyone else who looked at her cross-eyed. That wasn't Blake.

Anyone know why Holly doesn't seem to get much love? I adore that neurotic mess. She's not easy to classify, and I think that's why she's not considered a favorite. Any opinions?

I didn't start watching GL until the late 1990s so the only Alex's I knew were Joan and Marj. I first really knew Marj from her stint on AMC. I loved her character on there, she was one of the better later villains they had. To me her Alex just seemed like a neutered version of Vanessa Bennett Hayward Cortlandt.

Also, Raines is the only Alan I've known.

Ada's Dish Rag, we're lazy whores so don't be offended if I refer to you in some replies as ADR.

Holly doesn't get chatted about much here, agree. But I love her. I love Maureen Garrett. She was the master at underplaying something or knowing just what to add.

I hated how Blake lost her edges. A lot of the character of Blake's best scenes with with Mo Garrett/Holly. The scenes where Holly tells Blake she doesn't love her are amazing.

R166 Oh, by all means, look up some pre-1988 GL. I'll try to think of some very good scenes for you to see the best of Chris Bernau.

You rooted for Melanie Smith’s Emily. She felt like a fully fleshed out character, raised by a terrible mother, who longed for a stable Marriage and family, but didn’t know how to obtain that and kept screwing up. You wanted Emily to figure it out. It also helped that Doug Marland made sure to put Emily in numerous scenes with veteran characters like Lisa, Ellen and Kim, so you could see this character getting a stamp of approval from them.

Kelley’s Emily didn’t have that luxury, as she came on the scene shortly before Doug died. She was just a stock soap character, she wasn’t particularly interesting.

Smith's Emily *looked* so much like Marie Masters, and definitely had a combination of confidence and insecurity.

Menighan captured a certain neurotic nature that Masters' Susan also had.

Emily and Paul the first go around was entertainingly icky.

Howarth and Menighan Hensley as a couple wasn't interesting at all and never played the history.

[quote]Holly doesn't get chatted about much here, agree. But I love her. I love Maureen Garrett. She was the master at underplaying something or knowing just what to add.

You've nailed it, here, ORD. Maureen G. underplayed Holly. She's not some grand scenery-chewing diva or a classic heroine. Even when she's quiet her eyes, a twirk of her mouth, or a head tilt tells you exactly what Holly's thinking.

I love that the Springfield women in her age range avoided her like she was a walking plague. During her furtive attempts to marry crazy Daniel St. John, I thought it apt that they run off to get married. It's not like Holly would have had any bridesmaids to attend her. Holly's court would have been full of men (Ed, Ross, Fletcher ... and Roger would have crashed the ceremony just to stare her down).

Just a PSA. In case you didn't know Sharon Gabet has been posting early ABC Edge stuff with Adam Drake and the original Nicole. Here's a link to March 1976. She even has Winter Austin trying to kill de-SORASed Nicole.

I get the feeling that Edge is not all that popular here, but though I'd share if you like classic soaps.

ADR dear -

Yes! I loved what Robert Newman said about her and her acting style. It's so true.

Cool, TOC. I'm slowly working my way through Edge clips.

Thank you, R173. Robert Newman said it all. I always wondered what their chemistry would be like, but it was not to be.

Holly and Roger's success was a blessing and a curse. The Garrett/Zaslow chemistry was FIRE and impossible to replicate. Alas, with the rape storyline, there was too much history in the way for them to ever truly be together, though the show did try re-pairing them.

If a show did that today, social justice warriors would be in meltdown all over the interwebs.

There was an intrigue of sorts to marital rape storylines in the 70s. A weird sort of thirst/fetish for them among housewives, mixed in with a burgeoning feminist perspective that taught women they had agency over their own bodies - a new idea then.

But yes, today such a story would not fly.

Vee, who’s in the biz, outed Mo Garrett as a lezzy way back in the early 80’s. It was a disgusting thing to do. Vee is still in the biz and dictating everything.

,.,.,.,.,.,

Why do people not like EDGE on here? It ended a week after I turned one year old, so I have no memories of it. But, from the moment I heard of it, it has intrigued me. Just the fact that it had a large male fanbase is fascinating. I think that when P&G tried getting in the primetime soap business in the 1960s they should've spun off from Edge not ATWT, because men are much more important in primetime than daytime, when it come to the audience. Also, I love mysteries and court drama on soaps, so I figure Edge would've been right up my street.

[quote] you weren’t a fan of Joan Collins’ GL stint, then?

This comment was a while back and also not directed at me, but I re-read it and wanted to comment.

Collins did a fine job as Alex. It was very different than McKinsey or Dusay, obviously. But she had nice chemistry with Raines, Chappell, and of course The Pendulous One.

I don't think she quite succeeded in being Not Joan Collins or Not Alexis long enough to really live in that role, and of course she left far earlier than was originally intended. But I would take her performance over the whole "Dusay as Alex is haunting Reva by stalking her and wearing a wig!" era of GL. (Damn that Ellen Weston.)

Of course the great irony/full circle moment regarding Joan Collins is that the template for her most famous creation, Alexis Carrington Colby, exists because of.....Beverlee McKinsey and Iris Carrington - the Shapiros at "Dynasty" borrowed heavily from the character of Iris and McKinsey's portrayal to create Alexis.

R178 Oh, for those of us old enough to remember EON I think most of us enjoyed it.

I always thought that P&G could have taken EON - and that fabulous theme music, too - and make a soap for 11:30 pm or in some way reboot it, since we have so many law/order procedurals now. But I suppose L&O has usurped those stories.

They wanted to do a second airing of Edge at night, but that asshole Donald May fucked up the plans.

I am all about the Holly love on here. I didn’t see Maureen Garrett’s original run in the late 70s but adored her from the moment she returned in late ‘88/early ‘89 (at least that’s when I think she returned).

Holly wasn’t like anyone else in Springfield - she had an aloofness about her, a protective veil she wore.

And the writers knocked it out of the park with Holly and Blake (when Sherry S. played her) and their ongoing feuds.

so, so good

Ooh. That scene chills my blood every time I see it. I love Liz, but I'm curious about how Sherry would have played this.

This leaves me wondering about Holly's relationship with Meg. It was probably easier having a special needs daughter since Meg was raised by Fletcher. Yet I wonder if Holly would have bowed under the pressure of having yet another "imperfect" daughter. It was probably easier to love Meg since she was born with Down Syndrome. Holly's issues with Blake were all about Blake's perceived "moral" failings. Blake -- especially Sherry's Blake -- was just like Roger. And proud of it.

Part 1 of Soapnet's 2003 Another World Reunion hosted by Linda Dano

When Edge of Night moved from CBS to ABC on Dec. 1, 1975, ABC wanted to do a second airing of the show in late night. At that point, ABC didn't have anything it aired regularly at 11:30 p.m. or 12 midnight. They didn't have an equivalent of Johnny Carson, so they were experimenting with all sorts of programming after the 11 p.m. news. They often ran repeats of made-for-TV movies, but experimented with many types of shows.

The first ABC episode of Edge was 90 minutes long. Was done to wrap up storylines from the CBS run and kick off new storyline, hoping to satisfy old viewers who made the move while hook in new viewers. So, in that 90 minute episode, we learned that beloved heroine Nicole Travis Drake hadn't died in a boat explosion in the Caribbean 18 months earlier. She was alive and living in Paris but had amnesia.

We also saw abused wife Serena Farraday (played by Louise Shaffer) shoot her ex-husband, Mark, on the steps of the courthouse just moments after the jury ruled against her in a custody case for their son. That shooting on the courthouse steps was done in a rare (for the time) outdoor remote. Except turns out it wasn't Serena who shot Mark, it was actually her revenge-seeking split personality Josie, in one of the first times split personality was used as soap plotline.

ABC aired that episode from 3 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. and then repeated it at 11:30 p.m. that night. The late night showing got decent ratings, so ABC wanted to begin having a second airing in late night regularly. However, the cast and P&G never could come to terms on the details of the residuals for the never-before-done repeat airing of a soap opera. Donald May, who played hero Adam Drake, was said to be the ringleader demanding significantly more money for the second airing.

I think if they'd been able to get everything arranged for that late night airing, Edge might still be on the air today. As mentioned upthread, about half of Edge's viewers were male. A late night audience could have pulled in younger viewers, especially the college and 20something set.

Below is a clip of Josie shooting Mark on the courthouse steps.

Below is a clip from that Dec. 1, 1975 episode where we learned Nicole Travis Drake was alive.

Unfortunately, the full 90 minute episode from the first ABC airing of Edge of Night seems to no longer exist. Thanks P&G for wiping all you old tapes! ARGGGG.

Ironically, when Edge aired on CBS, the episodes were primarily performed live. Occasionally, they would tape episodes in advance say for holidays. But 90% of the time, the cast was performing the show at the exact same time that America was watching it.

However, when the show moved to ABC, Edge stopped doing the live performances and began taping all its episodes in advance. Not sure why P&G opted to do this. Perhaps in anticipation of ABC doing that late night airing of episodes.

Saddling Holly with Meg was just such a bad idea. Giving the world's worst mother a late in life special needs baby was just a story no one wanted to see.

It would have made more sense if somehow, barren Maureen had a miracle baby that had Down syndrome. Or maybe Maureen (single or no) would adopt one.

[quote]Or maybe Maureen (single or no) would adopt one.

But then Holly would go on to kidnap all the children in town instead.

That was the nadir of terribleness, of course.

Poor Maureen Garrett.

Don't forget Holly also gave up one of her kidneys for Vanessa's baby, Maureen.

That plot never made any sense. How in the world were the Cedars doctors going to transplant a kidney from an adult into a baby? Holly's kidney was about the size of a baby.

Holly always came across as a lezzy.

R178, I loved Edge of Night. I watched it from 1979 to 1984. It was my favorite daytime drama. I thought it had some of the best looking, sexiest men on daytime TV at the time (Gavin Wiley, Preacher Emerson, Damian Tyler, Carlos Crown, Brian Madison, Owen Madison, Draper Scott, Ansil Scott, and the list goes on). I even thought Gunther Wagner was pretty hot when he first arrived on the show.

As I recall, GL originally planned to kill off Down's syndrome baby Meg in a playground accident and then give her kidney to Vanessa's baby Maureen.

The cast cried foul, saying this was a pale imitation of GH's far superior BJ's heart plot where Maxie ended up with BJ's heart.

The writers relented. Meg lived. Holly ended up giving her kidney to baby Maureen, even though the details of the kidney transplant made no sense.

My grandma told me one episode when GL aired live Rita’s boob clearly fell out.

Maureen Garrett’s Emmy Reel. The last 10 minutes with Peter Simon I personally think was some of their best work ever. I will never in a million years understand why Holly was given such ridiculous stories the last 5 years and then written off. She was connected to everyone on the show and had such compelling rich history. Some of the best on daytime. What a waste.

[quote]I will never in a million years understand why Holly was given such ridiculous stories the last 5 years and then written off.

As I recall, she was already on recurring but stopped accepting any more GL work because of the ridiculous stories they had been giving her, especially the storyline that had her falling for Roger's never-before-mentioned son, Sebastian.

Alright! Fess up!

Which one of you P&G queens did reply #3 in this thread.

According to wikipedia, EDGE had a nice fanbase among the famous. P.G. Wodehouse, Bette Davis, Tallulah Bankhead, Eleanor Roosevelt, Rich Little and Cole Porter were all known to be fans.

Bette Davis was apparently a big P&G fan. We know she sent a letter of appreciation to Lisa Brown.

R201 When a P&G soap was good, it felt just like Bette's classic WB melodramas.

Powerful scenes, R197. Notice the first two scenes were with Zaslow; the last scene was about Roger.

The show decided Holly's role was simply to bump against Roger Thorpe. They bumped GREAT. They did. But she was so much more. OLTL did this to Blair Cramer. She was only allowed to bump against Todd Manning. Both these women were done a disservice because their characters and their portrayals brought so much more to their respective canvases.

I wish Guiding Light had allowed Roger to die with Michael Zaslow. Watching Holly and others deal with the death of the man who'd inspired so much drama would have taken years.

I love this boring ass scene. Nancy is going to slap Joyce!

That scene is one of the reasons why soaps were such a phenomena in the 60s and 70s. Your Grandma was ironing clothes and watching that scene, like she was peeking in on her next door neighbors. Soaps really lost something in the 80s.

Soaps were ruined they dropped THE from their titles!!! I still haven’t gotten over it 50 years later!

I miss As World Turns!

What happened to Barbara Rodell. From what I’ve seen she was great as Joyce on ATWT, driving a lot of the story in the late 70s.

Very well put r205.

I think Joyce was one of those characters like Rita from GL. A total slutty mess. A very 70s type character.

I used to write little opinion pieces for an ATWT fan website back in the late 90s. One week I ran a poll on the best ATWT actress of all time. I was shocked at the number of people who voted for Barbara Rodell. She really made an impression on people who watched that era.

You know those curtains smelled like pork chops.

I just love Nancy and to a lesser extent Chris death glaring at Joyce throughout that entire scene. Did that old cunt like anybody?

Hello Barbara...

Joyce's face says, "I might as well deal with this cunt and get it over with."

Nancy's face says, "Not this bitch... again"

Chris's face says, "After this bitch leaves, now I'm going to have to deal with this other bitch for the rest of the evening and won't be able to read my paper. Fuck you Don for bringing this skeezer into our lives."

I didn’t quite understand what the term “neurotic” meant until I watched Joyce on ATWT. That bitch was the very definition of neurotic.

Joyce was busy!

But why did Barbara Rodell not do a regular soap role after Joyce?

She was at the center of the storylines on ATWT for 8 years, and before that she had done two major roles in succession on AW (Lee Randolph) and GL (she played Leslie for a couple of years).

[quote] Waxy "Yellow Buildup at the Snyder Farm

You didn’t close your quote. So do you realize that everything you say for the rest of your life will be part of a DL thread title?

I'm surprised Rodell never showed up on Santa Barbara.

Barbara Rodell talking about THE Secret Storm.

Soap operas died when they eliminated THE from the titles. I’m still not over it, 50 years later.

A twist that will change THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, television’s number one daytime drama FOREVER, will be feature me, Scoche Marin as Katherine Chancellor, who discovers that Ashland Locke is her biological son. You must tune in to see how this impacts Genoa City and why I will win the Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Daytime Drama Series. I am the most important actress in all of daytime drama history. And I love my adoring fans!

R199 It wasn't me.

But I did appreciate that a few of us (including our dear BNSD) showed up in the thread about the Perfect Venue for a DL Convention!

Justina's mind will never close the quotes.

Rita's Boob would make a great authenticated name.

Justina, r225?

you must be new, r227.

Jackée?

I wasn't watching then, r228, true. But I thought Jackée played someone named Lily.

gurrrrrl

gurrrlll, only justina would start an ATWT thread in 2022.

r231 r225 = Spicen's fifth account?

Could be. Let's FF and block that too. Namaste, the world is in order again!

ff and block me all day long. loser, standing me up at the muse! i saw you walk up and turn away back to LI.

With the number of accounts spicen uses—now at five—I'm thinking maybe he is Muriel. Who gets to have five accounts, really?

Anyone who has the time and obsessiveness to monitor them all, I guess.

Jackee has gotten so fat! She can barely waddle now. I’ve seen her on Gays Of Our Lives.

Justin(a) used to post here years ago about soaps. He’s psycho.

MonticelloEdge is a mental case. He loved Spicen but Spicen told him to fuck off. It was sweet. We all high fived Spicen!! We love Spicen.

Seems our friend is loose and means to get this thread tanked.

Anyone have suggestions for our next Midwestern soaps thread name?

Threads usually get Murieled after 200 to 250 responses.

Here's a new one for you.

Midwestern thread title suggestions for future use:

- Monticello Madness, Mayhem & Mysteries

- Ross Marler: Soulless Politician or Underrated Daddy?

- The Many (Recast) Faces of Jamie Frame

- Pitfalls and Problems in Peapack

- Zimmer's Sweaty Balls

- Suburban Jokes and Icy Roads

- Darling!