Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine, Part II

Latest map of Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine. They have their land bridge from Crimea all the way up to the Donbas on the Russian border.

Link to part one

Really going after Ukraine's coastline, with its warm water ports and underwater petroleum reserves

[quote] The Russian economy is headed for depression & the quality of life is rapidly deteriorating

It was a short trip. . . .

Nobody gives a flying fuck what Donald Trump's lapdog Marco Rubio has to say about anything.

Putin is taking the rest of Earth with him. He probably has incurable cancer and doesn't care anymore. We just have to hope the Russian Generals will step in.

Wait, Putin! I need a pedicure first!

I don't care, do you?

Will the GOP get mad enough to kick Putin out of the Republican Party?

R5 You may not like him but he is vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee so he has access to intel that the average joe (or congressperson) doesn’t.

Putin needs to give up his pipe dream of a new Soviet Union. You can't relive the past, Vlad. It's obvious to almost everyone that it's time for you to go.

I read at someone's blog that one of the reasons Putin is invading Ukraine is to get the price of oil up. The only thing that powers Russia's economy are their abundance of fossil fuels which they export to the rest of the world but oil prices of $75 a barrel were not high enough to keep the Russian economy from collapsing. Oil prices are now well over $100 a barrel which should help Russian coffers.

It will, and taking control of Ukraine’s oil will too

A million refugees in a week.

I have to say the videos of these people running from their homes carrying their pets/children wrapped in blankets (and nothing else) have me feeling a certain type of way.

Almost unprecedented

R14 Some are trying to take their pets as well. Waaaaaaaaa!

[quote]You may not like him but he is vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee so he has access to intel that the average joe (or congressperson) doesn’t.

Wasn't he as much in the know when TFG shook Zelensky down for dirt on Biden and was blocking of military aid to Ukraine that Congress had approved? Where was his twitter vigor then?

Virtue signalling hypocrite

R16 no need to take those pets with them -- I will take them all.

Russians trying to flee but airlines are being shut down/restricted from flying.

Also lots of rumors that Putin getting ready to declare martial law.

Panic among Russian elites.

Putin shutting down liberal Russian media (what little there was.)

Snapshot of the Russian economy.

Marital law? I don't think Putin thought this was necessary when he started on this adventure. That won't go over well.

R19, fyi, martial law being declared IS the reason for people trying to leave Russia. It means conscription, confiscating of money, ban on leaving the country etc

Macron spoke to Putin today and said the conversation was not friendly. He probably told Putin to cut the fucking shit.

R22, I presume the guy in the video has probably already settled into life at the Siberian gulag where he will spend the next 35 years.

Masha Gessen: The West is "insane" for thinking sanctions will deter Putin

R16 - that went well during Chernobyl

[quote] Some are trying to take their pets as well.

But leave the pit bulls behind to fight the Russians.

Warning from Elon Musk: use Starlink at your peril.

Russian troops are "resupplying" by robbing banks and looting stores

at least there isn't raping as well as pillaging going on. Too bad a look for social media and these people actually still believe that they're there to 'liberate' the Ukrainians from Nazis.

So now the Russians are firing on a Ukrainian nuclear reactor with mortars and RPGs, it’s on fire and firefighters trying to put it out are being fired on.

^^That’s a lot of “fires” but you get my drift- a nuclear power plant is being attacked and is on fire.

This is real.

It’s the largest NPP in Europe.

R35, Oh shit! And radiation is spreading... WTF? If this continues, it will put neighboring NATO countries in danger.

Mofo trying to start WW3. Got rid of one crazyass and the other steps up.

The danger is if the reactor can’t be cooled down.

That's what happened in Fukushima in 2011....they lost power and couldn't cool the reactor cores. You can NEVER abandon a nuclear plant. They have to be maintained and monitored forever.

I think Putin's not deranged. I believe that he knows exactly what he is doing (or his soldiers he's sending into combat to die, more specifically). And I feel that the Western nation's leaders comprehend it, too.

Yes, R41, but what’s his endgame? Sweeping up Ukraine and Moldova and Belarus and that’s it?

⇧ "Western nations' leaders," my bad and apologies, DL grammar guards! :(

Lots of conflicting information coming out, very chaotic scene.

Putin might be trying to take the plant down because provides 1/4 of the power to Ukraine. Attacking the energy grid is what experts were predicting would happen early in the invasion.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister calling for a ceasefire around the nuclear reactor. I should fucking think so.

R45, but isn’t he doing that without the knowledge that thousands could die, including many of his countrymen?

R47 He doesn’t care.

Craig Mazin, creator/writer of the acclaimed HBO miniseries, has tweeted just one word-“Unbelievable”

R47, psychopaths don't care about others...

This is nuts.

At this point it's pretty clear Putin isn't interested in annexing Ukraine, he wants to wipe it off the face of the Earth.

Putin has FUCKED UP SO ROYALLY.

There is NO FUCKING PLACE for them in the world economy or the taxonomy of civilizations that breathe through their noses for the next CENTURY. Because of HIM ALONE. Die, motherfucker, die.

Zelenskyy issuing a statement after getting off the phone with Biden.

These ultra-nationalists in his inner circle have GOT to know they could make it so much easier on themselves, their dysfunctional spawn, and their once (I'm told) great nation by getting rid of this ONE GUY. It is simple math, which I'm told Russians are so much better at than the rest of the world (though you would not know it from the state of their shambolic and fast-sinking economy).

Supposedly he allowed himself to be photographed meeting with his security advisers last Monday (pre-invasion) out of some Hitler/Nazi type strategy to "implicate" his people in whatever atrocities were about to happen. But every one of those fuckers is a potential plea deal/turncoat. They could make life so much easier on themselves at the International Criminal Court if they just turned on him. It would be the much easier thing to do.

It is horrifying and nauseating to see the slaughter and annihilation of thousands of innocent people and the destruction of their homeland in an unprovoked attack by this lunatic butcher. And while the rest of the world is forced to stand on the sidelines and watch these horrendous crimes unfold, we are unable to directly intervene for fear of reprisal and retaliation that could plunge the world into a catastrophic war with potentially nuclear destruction.

Depressing doesn’t even begin to describe this.

So assuming this does not lead to a nuclear catastrophe… there are still questions. One, do the Russians now control the facility? If so do they have people that know how to operate it safely?

And two, assuming their intention is to shut it down- that means a quarter of the country is without ekectricity. That will cause even more chaos than already exists with all the indiscriminate BOMBING they’ve been doing.

There are really horrible videos on SM of the aftermath of these apartment complexes being bombed. Bloody mangled corpses scattered on the streets, people in their death throes if not immediately killed. I recommend NOT clicking on these videos. This is monstrous.

Russians don't care anymore

[quote] Russians don't care anymore

Then they should go and do the world a favor and drink from a collective vat of cyanide-laced FlavorAid.

Ukrainians are shrink wrapping looters to lamp posts; sometimes without pants!

Would Putin be craven enough to use this NPP to hold Ukraine hostage? Surrender or we blow it up? I could see it.

Lindsay Graham just said on Faux News that if this happened on Trump’s watch he’d “kick his ass.” I think he actually meant “lick his ass.”

Speaking of licking ass after we hopefully all make it outvog this alive I look forward to Russian kompromat photos of Graham licking 16 year old boy prostitutes’ asses being made public.

They’re making progress, slowly but surely.

This nuclear power plant that was attacked is the same one where the locals were trying to physically block the entrance to keep the Russians out. The Russians busted through the roadblock tonight. They’re resorting to brute force more and more. Macron was right when he said the worst is yet to come.

Translation of Zelensky’s statement on the nuclear power plant attack. (This was like 4AM there. I don’t think the guy sleeps anymore.)

Oh dear. Latest headline on DM:

"The Biden administration is 'actively discussing' sending Kamala to Romania and Poland in the coming days to show 'solidarity' with Ukraine."

She'll no doubt be asking her staff to book tickets to Belgrade and Zagreb.

R67 = If Ukraine needs road repair---Pete knows a guy at Dominos who used to fix roads for him in Hooterville.

Oh dear is right. I don't think Kamala is quite equipoed for this. They need to send some tough ass generals over there who really understand Russia. THAT is what Putin would fear.

As much as I hate Trump I think Putin thought he was crazy and unpredictable, so he was a bit worried about him.

"As much as I hate Trump I think Putin thought he was crazy and unpredictable, so he was a bit worried about him."

Yeah, I'm sure he was very worried about the guy who gave unfettered access to the White House and U.S. intelligence.

Putin started the invasion because he was losing his grip.

With Trump in office, Trump was doing kegels to make sure Putin wouldn't let go even if he wanted to.

What motivated this I wonder. Being a trillionaire isn't enough.

It’s time for the US to lead this fight. All I’m seeing is the US/Biden waiting on NATO and some formation of consensus on what to do next. We are not leading and one can be assured that NATO will NEVER intervene to stop Putin even if every remaining Ukrainian civilian is slaughtered. Why are we standing by and watching this massacre? No one wants to see dead bodies and it makes no sense to be mere spectators.

I just saw an interview on Amanpour’s program with Hassan Green(?) and what he says makes sense. The US unlawfully intervened in Kosovo some 20+years ago and Puitin has learned from this. The US has and can intervene if it is necessary. There simply is no will in Europe to do so. We will have blood on our hands when we stand by and wait for sanctions to kick in afterwards while civilians are offered up as lambs in the meantime.

Here’s the link: Got this guests name very wrong. Sorry.

I’m trying to listen to unfiltered Russian POV and measure it against western media. This is what was on PBS.

A Russian ambassador is speaking to the UN stating that the 2014 Ukraine election to become an independent country was essentially a “coup” and that Ukrainian “Nazis” were committing genocide of Russians in the Donbas region. Hence, Russia had a right to protect “Russians” in Donbas against genocide. He goes on to state that the US conspired against Russia in doing this.

The West has to wake up to the fact that it miscalculated again. This has all the earmarks of a buy now, pay later scheme.

The can they are trying to kick down the road is refusing to roll away fast or far enough.

Remember Obama's "red line in the sand" with Assad that wasn't?

After all, we don't need a western style country in the Middle East as an ally, let alone one basically running Lebanin, too, right? Let Russia have Assad and Syria.

Well, here we are again.

With a madman whose troops set fire to Europe's biggest nuclear power plant.

And the best word the US State Department can come up with is "reckless".

^*Lebanon (not Lebanin)

That's just Russian bullshit propaganda R74. Their extremely heavy-handed, war crimes level invasion of Ukraine has lost them almost all support among its Russian-speaking population in those eastern areas. Just about everyone in Ukraine hates them now.

I know it is bullshit propaganda, but I’m not sure the Russian people do because they no longer have access to balanced news.

I.e. we need to train our sights in on what BS Putin is feeding to his captive audience. Yes, we in the West are in agreement, but Putin is forcing false propaganda on his people so we need to know how/what he is brainwashing them with. Keep in mind, Europe will not help Ukraine directly. They have never had the will to stand up militarily against aggression and they never will. I hate to go onto state that if Biden is waiting for them to act when they never will, then it is simply masochistic to keep watching this bloodshed.

Looking at where the real money is going tells you who is on whose side. China's Development Bank and Exim Bank have pumped at least $4.6bn to Belarus and ~$83bn to Russia.

Yeah a lot of the people in Russia believe it, but not the Ukrainian Russians: they've experienced the Russians bombing the fuck out of their towns and cities. One of the responses to that tweet was

'There is no pro Russian block after this. I know plenty of ethnic Russian Ukrainians, they have nothing but searing hatred for the Russian state now'

and I see no reason to doubt that.

[quote]The Russian economy is headed for depression & the quality of life is rapidly deteriorating

This is feel-good fantasy.

Even if things did get bad, the Russian Govt has never given a fuck about the common person, and the common person is infinitely tougher than and more resigned than Westerners to fate. Putin could go on forever with the populous only having horsemeat. They've been there before.

Yes r80. But how does the US counter China’s help to Russia? Do you think Americans will pay more at the pump, stop their compulsion to buy Chinese manufactured products? Do you believe greedy US companies will cut profit margins with cheap Chinese labor? The past would not make this evident.

So as believed in Buddhism: Life is suffering and It is What it is…

Wtf? Putin says he had a phone conversation with Belarusian leader Lukashenko today and that “Belarus is interested in a having a presence in the Baltics and its own port facilities”.

Belarus is a landlocked country…

UN/West has decided to extend sanctions on Belarus and regard them as non-neutral and pro Russia.

Soon, Belarusian citizens will feel the same sanctions and restrictions that Russian civilians are subject to. I wonder if they signed up for this?

[quote]Putin could go on forever with the populous only having horsemeat.

Sounds like heaven.

I disagree R82. I don't think any industrialized nation as that kind of resilience anymore.

Once Russians have their income and life savings ripped away from them do you honestly think they'll go back to sustenance farming or something like its the 18th century? They don't even have the skills for that.

This is what the Russians are doing to Ukraine. Apocalyptic scenes, just terrible.

[quote] Putin could go on forever with the populous only having horsemeat.

Bless you for thinking it's horse.

No…I do not believe that younger Russians would be able to live 1 day without their iPhones. Still, Putin would have no problem in exterminating these Russian nazis. Traitors! See how that works?

So, I just checked and the Baltic states are: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - all three are members of NATO. So if Putin is saying that Belarus wants a presence there and port facilities, honestly what does that say to you? It says to me that he doesn't intend to stop with Ukraine and that NATO will get dragged in anyway.

Why did the Russian Federation get the former USSR seat on the UN Security Council? Shouldn’t that seat rotate among all of the former Soviet republics? I believe it’s Ukraine’s turn now.

[quote]So, I just checked and the Baltic states are: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - all three are members of NATO

R93 = Nancy Drew

There was never any formal UN vote to admit the Russian Federation. It was simply renamed and grandfathered into the UN upon the dissolution of the USSR.

People are booking Ukrainian AirBnBs then telling the hosts to just keep the money - another way to get money to the Ukrainian citizens.

R93. Errr…duh! NATO gives 0 fucks about Ukrainian bloodletting.

R95 Yeah, I bet you knew who was a NATO member or not.

Which is BS, because the USSR was not just Russia. (My 8th grade Geography teacher would get apoplectic if we ever dared refer to the USSR as Russia.) There were 14 other Republics and all of them have just as much of a right to sit on the security council.

Unfortunately, however, as of this moment they do not.

[quote]My 8th grade Geography teacher would get apoplectic if we ever dared refer to the USSR as Russia

Pics please.

R102 What if the geography teacher is a 60-year-old female?

[quote]What if the geography teacher is a 60-year-old female?

Pics please.

I think Ducky was around 80 when I was in 8th grade. She refused to retire. You didn’t pass her class unless you could rattle off all 15 Soviet Republics and at least 40 countries in Africa off the top of your head.

Seriously they should take a vote amongst the 15 on who they want to represent them at least once a decade.

The Western/civilized economy has spent the past several days arranging an order in which Russia is not even a FACTOR, and IT WASN'T EVEN THAT HARD.

Someone should tell Putin that for the next century-plus, it will be as though his country does not exist, except in shameful infamy and as a punchline to dirty jokes.

The Russian Paralympic Committee will not appeal against the decision to ban its athletes from competing in the 2022 Winter Games in Beijing.

crazy that the Paralympics have more integrity than the regular Olympics. The Paralympics also properly banned Russia after their doping scandal while the regular Olympics just gave them a bullshit flag and 'Russian Olympic Committee' name.

Good luck with that. The last time a world power cratered millions died.

It's a real stretch to call Russia a "world power." Aside from their shitty GDP, they don't exercise any power in the global arena that's not based on mob-style coercion, hacking and theft. So, they're like a "mob outfit with nukes," but that is not the same as "global power."

What's most pathetic is that it didn't have to be this way. It would have been a lot easier and probably achieved more of Russia's hard and soft power interests (assuming those were ever rational) in the long run just to build a legitimate country. But, alas not, because morons have been running the show for many years.

Keep in the back of your mind, sanctions immediately imposed can also be immediately lifted. I believe Putin has put stock in that. Sanctions are easy and facile. They can be declared and undeclared with the snap of a finger! It is simply a commitment, a pledge in the moment and no more. No real skin is loss in these harsh wordings of recrimination..

Sadly true R109. But when the communists fell I think the most organised and powerful groups left where the criminal gangs and kleptocrats. It was inevitable that they would seize control.

The mistake was the West abetting them and allowing them to retain their nuclear weapons. The West drunkenly thought that Russia was going to become a democratic, libertarian paradise and has given Russia and Putin the benefit of the doubt for 30 years. Now those chickens have come home to roost.

Do you honestly think that sanctions against Russia will be lifted in ANYONE'S lifetime? This piss-backward country is being financially and infra structurally transported to pre-1991 Albania. The country is FUCKED.

Sanctions won't be lifted while Putin draws breath on this earth.

Fun fact: the West is still paying Putin $1.5 billion a DAY for gas and oil (exempted from all sanctions). Enough to destroy Ukraine hundreds of times over.

Foreign governments prefer to work with local, self-serving opportunists filling the vacuum left by the previous regime. They are willing to do the foreign government's bidding while the new leaders are filling their own pockets with ill-gotten gains.

Sadly, it's never about the good for the country. Control and exploitation. That's the agenda.

The U.S. hasn't officially sanctioned the oil and gas yet because it's not (yet) in their strategic interest to do, not because Putin has the world by the balls, Boris. It probably WILL come to that, especially because Iran is about get asked to the prom.

You talk like "destroying Ukraine hundreds of times over" is something that will just happen with no consequences to Russia. Destroy Ukraine several times over and all that will happen is that in addition to taking away the country's porn-cams and piss-pots, it will be denuclearized and militarily neutralized. Putin probably won't be alive to see that, so I'm sure he doesn't give a shit.

The Russian economy is already experiencing consequences and it will just get worse, Boris.

I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here because the Russian civilians will be used as pawns. They know fuck-not about anything and Putin would have no qualms about killing them off, just like he gives no fucks about Ukrainian civilians. Do you not see this? Puttie doesn’t give a shit about human life except his own.

Yeah, but the world has figured that out, genius. It's not like, "Gee, I guess you blew Ukraine off the map, so we're gonna be dealing with you now!"

Explain.

Please expand on your sentiments and not with radio silence.

Ok, ok, ok, I get it. "Vlad bomb Ukraine. Vlad take oil. Vlad take grain. Vlad sell oil to China. Vlad Czar of all Russias. Kneel before Vlad or suffer nuclear consequences."

Russia has been and is being currently cut off from anything like a mainstream financial market. From trade. From technology exports. From payment systems. Initially this was a tactical move intended to dissuade further aggression into Ukraine, but will now become long-term/permanent policy. This shit is permanent.

Say he does bomb Ukraine. The West is certainly prepared for that scenario. They haven't sent in any troops yet, have they? On some level, the West feels Ukraine is not yet worth the risk of direct military confrontation. Why is that? It's not because the West doesn't have the weapons. They certainly could use them, and maybe they still will.

Deeper, longer and lasting pain to Russia--not to Ukraine, whether it continues to exist as a free/unoccupied nation or not--can be achieved economically by cutting it off from conventional trade and finance.

Let us hope so.

In the meantime, Russians have taken over the Ukraine nuclear plant. Let’s hope there is a long-term, permanent policy on harsh sanctions going forward, Perhaps it won’t matter if a madman is in at the helm and seizing nuclear power plants. Think about it. Sanctions mean nothing.

R115. Nothing to do with the invasion but Russian market is closed again today. I'm really curious how long they think they can keep doing this.

Surely Russian companies are quickly becoming worthless without a market to determine their value?

^ Well not "nothing" but more to do with the sanctions rather than what's going on on the ground.

Russia is steadily taking over Ukraine. How are they going to sustain an occupation of such a big country when they can't even take care of their own country? And with their economy now falling off the cliff?

$$$Dollars$$$ over human life. Great.

Yeah, it's disgusting R126. Sanctions are apparently the new way to wage war. And people aren't relying on a military victory or a popular revolt in Russia, they're relying on a coup by the wealthy and powerful in Putin's inner circle who are affected. Shows you how much money talks now - the common folk literally have no power anymore.

[quote]Shows you how much money talks now - the common folk literally have no power anymore.

Well, the "common folk" of the West aren't being sent to slaughter in Eastern Europe, so there's that.

Have Interpol offer a $10 billion reward for taking out Putin.

Go that way if money talks and bullshit walks. What’s $10 billion compared to a nuclear war?

Put $1 trillion on his head.

I think the Ukrainian war is more of an interesting study now for countries like the United States who aren't involved militarily. The Russians and Ukrainians are basically the same, so this is tantamount to a civil war at this point. Yes we are outwardly trying to bring and end to the fighting through sanctions, while I believe at the same time studying Russia's military capabilities - which have shown themselves to be less than stellar. But there is no need to rush in just yet. Maybe Putin is playing right into the United States hands with the threat of Ukrainian inclusion into NATO as a way to force him to show all of his cards. It's not like intelligence wasn't expecting this exact same thing. It wasn't a question of If but more When. I think the United States knew this was going to happen but has been pleasantly surprised by how difficult it has been for Russia, how little support Putin has and how incapable he will be to launch larger scale attacks. When you have to point a gun at Belarus's head to back you, you know you've become a global pariah. He only has the threat of nuclear weapons and it looks like nothing much else in the face of the great military might of the United States. Let Russia tire itself out, so if and when it is necessary, it will be an easy 1,2,3 to drive them back into the Stone Age and eliminate the current ruling authority - essentially rendering it less powerful than it ever has been in the past.

Spreading “fake news” in Russia will now get you a 15 year prison sentence.

(And protesters are threatened with mandatory conscription into the Russian army.)

There is nothing on earth that will stop Vladimir Putin from seizing and blowing up a nuclear power plant, because he is a psychopath and that is what he is aiming to do. If Ukraine surrenders, he will blow it up and kill civilians. If Ukraine resists, he will blow it up and kill civilians. So, the killing of civilians is really on Vladimir Putin, he's going to do it regardless, and the West knows this because most are not stupid, so it's making arrangements for living life in the longer term where Russia is not really a "country" in the legitimate/global-actor sense of the term and Russia's role in the global economy, such as it has been, can be filled by other players.

The more Russia bombs, the more nuclear threats, the more "obvious" that Vlad makes it that he doesn't care for civilian or any other kind of life, the more compelling the rationale to keep existing sanctions in place, and to impose more as he continues doing what he is doing. Sure, sanctions are arbitrary instruments. But why exactly should or would anyone lift sanctions for Russia? What would be the reason? Unless to mitigate the damage to ordinary Russians, but that will only happen once Vlad and his ilk are dead. They raised the game, not the West.

Even if the U.S. does Vlad the favor of continuing to buy his oil--the "diarrhea" that feeds his sick, pathetically undiversified economy, and which the U.S. and its allies can obtain elsewhere, as well as produce themselves--the U.S. can also tax Russian imports, which will squeeze Vlad's profit margins (and I know Vlad hates getting squeezed unless it's his tiny dick going into someone's innocent dog).

But, regardless, Russia is burning through cash pretty fast. It's going to be expensive for them to borrow more. As of 2 days ago, the CDS market was pricing in a better than 50% chance that Russia will default on its hard-currency sovereign debt payment due later this month, and that was before Putin got all pissy with Emmanuel Macron on the phone and started shelling the nuclear plant. The major banks/funds will just take the write-off on whatever Russian assets they hold. It'll be a bummer, but you know, the last decade-plus has been pretty good for them. They can take the hit, and it's the patriotic thing to do.

It's going to be hard for Russia to continue selling the one commodity they have if they cannot access conventional trade finance and bank channels. That's just a fact. It costs money to run a war, and run an economy, especially when you're an autocrat and obsessed with maintaining total control and suppressing dissidents. He's got a lot of overhead.

[quote]The Russians and Ukrainians are basically the same, so this is tantamount to a civil war at this point.

i stopped reading at this point. . .

R132. Isn't that just going to make Russian people even more distrustful of Putin's propaganda?

R131 It's not a fucking 'civil war'. The Ukrainians have their own identity, language, and sovereignty.

[quote]Sure, sanctions are arbitrary instruments. But why exactly should or would anyone lift sanctions for Russia?

who is even suggesting this, besides the trolls on the DL?

It's true, purely trolls. Boris upthread said some shit, "Sanctions can be lifted." WTF? What a retard.

[quote]Fun fact: the West is still paying Putin $1.5 billion a DAY for gas and oil (exempted from all sanctions).

Fun fact: Republicans are urging a total ban so the price of gas goes up even more and they can use it as a cudgel against Biden and the Democrats this November.

Yes, trolls have invaded the other threads on this topic, too. Begone, trolls! Your country may take over Ukraine, but Putin has already sealed your doom.

Well, good luck gettin' paid, trolls!

NATO has rejected Ukraine's request for a no-fly zone :(

[quote]t's not a fucking 'civil war'. The Ukrainians have their own identity, language, and sovereignty.

I know they are a sovereign nation idiot. I was simplifying. Past the hard drawn lines of national borders, culturally they bleed into each other. There are people who live in Ukraine who have family members in Russia. The cultural differences between the two countries would be the same as Los Angeles waging war on San Francisco. The two countries have thousands of years of history that bind their people basically as one. It's very much like our own civil war where you had brothers fighting against brothers.

...Although, when they troll on these threads, it gives me a great opportunity to try out new insult material, which I LOVE doing, so, you know, whatevs.

[quote]NATO has rejected Ukraine's request for a no-fly zone :(

Thankfully.

R132 Welcome to Fascism, Russians. Putin’s not even trying to hide it now. The mask has slipped.

Nice try, asshole at R143. Whatever the cultural continuities, all that matters in this situation is that Ukrainians overwhelmingly see this as an invasion of their sovereign territory. Go back to licking Putin's pimply ass.

(How'd I do, jeangenie?)

The EU may curtail Russia's access to the IMF. Probably can't kick them out totally (because China surely won't agree), but any limit will hurt because a country that defaults on its sovereign debt (which Russia probably will do) usually looks to the IMF for credit restructuring.

CNN: The last of the independent news sources in Russia have been shut down. Nothing but propaganda now. And better not protest it, that’ll get you mandatory conscription into the Russian army (does this include senior citizens, I wonder?)

Hold me David!

well, I am going to be crucified for this BUT one could make argument that it is a "civil war". I have hard time distinguishing them. All white cis people speaking same language living next to each other???? I say, none of my business.

Who is the qween at R147? He's the bitch that comes to the meeting late and asks all the questions previously answered in the twenty minutes before he got there.

What are you talking about R152? I was refuting the obvious troll at R143.

European markets are tanking hard. France down 4%. That would be the equivalent a 1346 point drop here in the US.

You know, it's too bad about the news channels. But, you know, Russia is not like "North Korea" in the sense that, up until quite recently, it had access to popular culture, consumer products, websites etc. You can shut shit down, but it's not like they haven't *already* experienced the world outside.

I myself have had lots of Russian (*and* Ukrainian) colleagues in finance over the years, and they're generally great people, who buy clothes, download apps, listen to music, much like anyone else would. They haven't been living in the gulag for decades like North Koreans. In order to achieve that kind of mind control over a population, it takes years of total isolation, which I don't think Vlad really has.

[quote]I know they are a sovereign nation idiot. I was simplifying.

THEN STOP IT

R155, I think this is what will bring the regime down and the West is doing the right thing in that sense. But that won't solve the ongoing war. Before the Russian realise and rise, this war will be over and Ukraine wiped off. Putin is also may be not for long. I believe this is his last hurrah. He appears not to give a shit.

Does this thread have to devolve into fighting each other (like every other fucking thread on here)? Just BLOCK and move on if you suspect a troll.

R107, I'm sure the Russian establishment could care less about the physically imperfect specimens known as Paralympians being publicly exposed in the field of competition. The world is probably lucky that Vlad has not already rounded up and shot the Paralympians. I'm sure they are not even worth doping for him.

R153 I am R143. You are arguing a point from my post that was such of small part of what I was actually saying and got stuck on it like a turd out of water. I didn't say it IS a civil war. I said the way the United States government is viewing it is tantamount to a civil war. Reading is fundamental. My main point being that the US is using this opportunity (whatever you want to call it) to observe and study Russia's military prowess.

[quote] until quite recently, it had access to popular culture, consumer products, websites etc.

Putin is blocking those too.

Tweet the EU Commission and demand that it move forward quickly with Ukraine's application for membership. The EU Parliament approved it yesterday (symbolic gesture but significant).

R159 I've read Grigory Rodchenkov's book and he says that he worked to cover up positive doping tests of Russian Paralympics as well. But they are certainly an afterthought since in the book he also refers to them as not the 'real' Olympics.

*Think that should have been 'Paralympians'.

And reportedly that power plant is being operated by Ukrainians with guns to their heads.

R165, it's another example of fake outrage and Ukrainian propaganda. How the plant is supposed to be operated? By soldiers? What is it, a farm?

Same situation in Chernobyl, under Russians now, all employees are still working there and operating the plant. Gun or no gun.

One thing the Ukrainians can look forward to after Putin fails to take their country and is likely killed in the process is a huge infrastructure boost. I am sure companies are lining up now for those huge government contracts to rebuild Ukraine

^I think you're right except for the part about assuming that Putin will fail. I don't know if that's a given yet...

Russians are starting to flee.

“If the assessment is based not only the minimum subsistence level but on people’s subjective perceptions, poverty appears to be a much more widespread phenomenon. Almost two thirds of households, according to Rosstat, say that they cannot afford to purchase any consumer durables and almost one household in six can afford food but not clothing or utilities.

There was disquiet over a recent survey by Rosstat on households’ financial status, which showed that 35.4% cannot afford to buy each family member two pairs of comfortable, seasonally appropriate shoes.“

Study is from 2019, long before this war.

Putin will soon impose martial law to stop them, unfortunately.

I believe that someone may have already mentioned this, but with so many Russian troops now busily engaged in Ukraine wouldn't this be an opportunity for non-ethnic Russian regions/states to stage breakaways and declare independence? At least they would once again have access to financial markets.

I’m sick of hearing about the poor Russian people uninformed and manipulated by Putin. I’ve spent a lot of time there with work. They’re shitty, awful people who support this, yes the youth too (Google ‘Nashi’). Everyone in Europe dreads running into them on holiday, their football hooligans are disgusting and their women cynical whores. Their nihilist view of the world needs to be destroyed along with their government. No sympathy…they bring it on themselves.

R168, Ukraine might fall, but it won't be there for long. He'll never be able to hold that country under his thumb with all of the global pressure forced on them.

R172, contrary to what we made to believe by Ukrainian defence ministry and NATO communications office, Putin have not used much of his armies in Ukraine just yet. Most actions have been the paratroopers and here and there supported by heavy targeted air strikes. Most ground forces are moving in but not engaging heavily. They are avoiding major cities and encircling them to avoid mass casualties. Not a good look for Putin, apparently.

It's very helpful when people like r173 come into a thread and start talking about genocide.

R138. Is it not a fact that sanctions can be lifted? Are you saying there will never be a point in time in the future (near or far) that they can be easily imposed and likewise easily lifted? What problem do you have against this fact? Because it is a fact. Sanctions are the most readily and easily imposed action against an aggressor nation. In this case Russia. It is easy and facile.

More to the point, it does not entail anything other than monetary “sacrifice” on NATO’s behalf. It does not involve the lives of NATO soldiers like it does for Ukrainian soldiers or their innocent civilians. Based on your logic, I’d assume you can place a dollar value on what a human life is worth. In my mind, at least, every human life is priceless. Perhaps you work in actuaries for a profit-driven life insurance company. No offense.

R173 These are mostly older Russians who get their “news” from Russian state tv (and believe it.) Like Fox News viewers and Trump supporters here in the US.

I think this will be the result. The E.U. and U.S. will make sure the rump state integrates with the West, if not in NATO then in the E.U.

NATO says no to a no-fly zone.

Putin’s crackdown on dissent in Russia is growing.

[quote] I didn't say it IS a civil war. I said the way the United States government is viewing it is tantamount to a civil war.

You just dig yourself in deeper.

R179, I agree. Say hello to Ukraine's new capital, Lviv. I think the only question is how much of the yellow part Putin is going to get. The rest is a goner.

I don’t think Russia is losing anymore

You never did simpleton trollski

Biden is kowtowing to NATO again. We, the US, are being led around by the nose. I’m not saying I want the US to rush into war, but there is no point in seeing Ukrainians slaughtered for our profit-driven “news”. They are spooging themselves silly. I mean like in Spooge Bob, Cum Pants.

Russian propaganda/state TV is the equivalent of Fox News. They even feature clips of Tucker Carlson and other Fox hosts regularly

Based on that terrible joke you tried to tell, I think one of your troll supervisors is pranking you, r186.

HUGE influx of defeatist posts on all these threads this morning. Distract, distract, distract! Poots must be getting desperate as he envisions the end of his reign as one long military quagmire and economic servitude to China.

This is not “Ukrainian propaganda,” R166.

[quote] Yeah, I'm sure he was very worried about the guy who gave unfettered access to the White House and U.S. intelligence.

That doesn't matter. Putin could see how Trump could turn on a dime and in one second befriend you and in another betray you. The fuck isn't even loyal to his children. That's why people like Trump can never be trusted. They don't honor loyalty. Putin could never be sure that Trump wouldn't nuke his ass or at least bomb Moscow with conventional missiles.

R179 R183 see the linguistic breakdown. Such a rump state would make sense.

CSIS analysis from Feb 15.

If Russia going to shut down the power?

We’ll just have to watch and see.

I suspect that's the goal R194 and probably why they attacked it in the first place. Cutting the power increases the pressure on Kyiv to surrender.

R186, I think any U.S. administration directs NATO; it's not the other way around.

[quote] Putin says he had a phone conversation with Belarusian leader Lukashenko today and that “Belarus is interested in a having a presence in the Baltics and its own port facilities”. Belarus is a landlocked country…

Um, yea. I'm sure they would. And look what we have here. Kaliningrad right on the Baltic. Well, we'll just have to take some land from NATO country Lithuania or NATO country Poland to make a nice little corridor to get Belarus it's sea view condos. I'm sure they won't mind. It's just a little piece of land much smaller than Crimea. We are getting pretty good at this invasion business aren't we. And look! no one will stop us. Look at those pretty people standing in front of our tanks. Isn't that cute.

If NATO doesn't step un then NATO is dead. What good is it if it fails to respond to threats. You have to stop Putin and Belarus before they act. OInce they amass their troops and march then you have made it worse.

Strategic missile attacks on both Moscow and Belarus - take out the nuclear capability first. Then take out the government.

Unless both men can both be taken out quietly and efficiently.

Aren't you glad you tied the hands of our intelligence and CIA. See this is where naivete gets you. This is where ignorance of reality gets you. Dead. Or under the rule of non-democratic, non-liberal totalitarian regimes.

Good work, western countries. Now stop listening to these child-like morons who want to live in a fantasy land about every fucking thing. Stop obsessing over pronouns and microaggressions and do the hard work of surviving on a dog-eat-dog world.

R198 is begging for World War III, troll style.

R199. I mean, I agree that NATO should do something but missile striking Moscow and Belarus is definitely troll talk. That would start nuclear war in a second.

[quote] We’ll just have to watch and see.

Yes, that's what Putin is counting on. The world just watching from the sidelines.

We better get as much weaponry and whatever material and manpower is needed to fight an underground warfare now. Once Russia takes over the chances to assist become much harder. Then any assistance will be considered an invasion of Russia land. We need to send in people undercover who understand how to take out people and military facilities.

Just do it and worry about violating laws later. Seriously, what is Putin going to do? Take us to the Hague and sue us? Don't give me the nuclear threat nonsense. Putin already has whatever lying excuse he needs if he wants to do that. We can make up lies, too. And quote frankly what is launching missiles at a nuclear plant but a nuclear attack? Just quietly grant Ukrainian citizenship to anyone coming into its borders to assist in the fighting and paint UKR on all the equipment.

This is war. War against the rest of the world for the sake of a lying POS. We are repeating our mistakes with Hitler and Stalin. We never learn do we?

Seriously, r199. Not only that, it was a standard pro-war troll post until the end when suddenly it's some diatribe over woke Millennials or whatever.

I cannot understand people who obsess so much over "pronouns" and "SJWs" and crap that they include it in everything they talk about. Then they accuse everyone else of obsessing over that stuff.

The way to stop WW3 is to stop Putin. Period. What about the fact that he will not stop until he IS stopped by others do you not understand? Sanctions will not work with this guy and his mentality. He doesn't care if his people suffer - it's all for the power and glory of Russia. He will be fine in his world.

He's like a serial killer who relishes his job. He is actually a serial killer, isn't he? And we're all cowering in the dark scared to confront.

In the immortal words of Todd Beamer, Lets' Roll.

I keed I keed, but not by much.

I do wonder R201 if the West is doing some risk analysis on whether to send undercover troops like that. Maybe they already are but would just never publicize it.

Are the people here who want NATO to fight in Ukraine enlisted in our armed forces?

This board doesn't really seem like the type to attract people in the armed forces R205.

[quote]This board doesn't really seem like the type to attract people in the armed forces

No, but they played lots of war games on PlayStation, so they feel well informed.

[quote]And we're all cowering in the dark scared to confront.

There's no reasoning with people like you who have decided, for no reason other than it's what you WANT to believe, that the nuclear threat is "nonsense."

What do you actually think you're accomplishing, though? These long posts about how "we need to attack Putin," what do you think saying that over and over again on Datalounge achieves?

Interesting: "The top 3 institutional holders in that Russian bank are all from Kentucky."

Sen. McConnell, care to comment?

Drones. Send drones. Take midget Satan out.

R208. I mean, the nuclear threat is obviously not "nonsense" but I do understand that people might be ignorant about it in the modern day. Many people have forgotten or never knew the looming threat that pervaded the Cold War.

That said, there is always a sense of unreality when it comes to nukes. Everyone knows that nobody would survive such an event so I think it's hard to imagine anyone willingly pressing the button.

No more ndependent news in Russia. Only propaganda now.

Another apartment block goes down, this one 5 miles NW of downtown Kyiv. The 40 mile long Russian convoy may be stalled but the bombing of civilians is ramping up.

^ Dudes... get out.

R213. Horrific and I just can't even understand why. What do they hope to achieve through this massacre?

Does Putin want to rule over a kingdom of ashes?

R211 A “nuke” doesn’t have to be a massive nuclear bomb that annhiliates millions. There are small nuclear-tipped rockets that can be fired to ‘send a message.’ There are all different types and sizes of nukes.

Arguably, Putin does understand he proposes to occupy a country filled with fiercely resistant people, R215, so my guess is yes.

R216. I agree but I not sure of your point? Surely the nuclear threat everyone's familiar with is the one that provokes full-scale nuclear war?

Map, channel updated every day.

Map updated today.

Lawrence: Putin Revives The Nuclear Nightmare Of Mutually Assured Destruction

R218 There’s a strategy called ‘escalate to deescalate’:

[quote] It describes a supposedly new Russian plan to use limited nuclear strikes in a local/regional conflict, the belief being that such an escalation from conventional to nuclear conflict would shock an adversary into suing for peace. I

Ah right R222. That's interesting. Terrible if true. Really the worst example of brinkmanship.

I don't understand Putin's logic (if we can call it that).

He says Ukrainians and Russians are the same people but yet he bombs the piss out of Ukraine. I guess he doesn't have any respect for his own people either. Putin said that Ukrainians were "gangsters" and are using children as human shields and yet he bombs hospitals and schools in Ukraine. He's also arresting Russian children who are protesting the war.

I wish the Russians would wake up and get rid of him. He's been milking the country for his own gain since he's been in power. Completely corrupt and evil asshole.

He's frustrated R224. He didn't expect such a response for the international community and he's starting to panic. Apparently Kremlin officials can't even quit now.

How would "escalate to deescalate" work? If Putin nuked just Paris or NYC, even those strikes would bring a catastrophic response on Russia from NATO. If he nuked just Kyiv or some local place in the Ukraine, it would make a response from NATO more problematic, but would undermine his operation in Ukraine (killing Russian troops, contaminating a broad area of the country he's trying to occupy) and make his ideological position at home more precarious.

R224, you're probably confused because you don't have sufficient info to make sense of what's going on. I think you're just watching CNN and maybe reading the Times. If you want to know an enemy's logic, however faulty, you should probably listen to what the enemy is saying, apart the filtered and slanted takes you're already getting.

If your confusion isn't the point of the post, but rather venting, and your opinions are set regardless of what additional information may be out there, then by all means, stick to your limited range of sources.

apart *from

I'm not sure you can even glean info on Putin's logic from Russian TV R227. It's a pack of lies.

His true thoughts he no doubt keeps only to himself.

R225, you really think the didn't run all the scenarios? Really? You think those resources aren't available to him, or that he's just some dumb thug? He may be a thug, but he's not dumb.

I bet you think things are going badly for Russia right now, because CNN says so.

He's going to get exactly what he wants, in large part because we're lying to ourselves.

R229, it's not about the true logic: it's about the logic at play. You didn't even read what he said in his "Empire of Lies" speech, did you?

R227 - I'm quite well informed and get my information from numerous sources. I'm not sure what you're talking about. You're the one who seems confused.

If I were Xi, I’d be wondering if it might make more sense to just annex the portion of Russia in Asia rather than go after Taiwan at the moment.

[quote] I cannot understand people who obsess so much over "pronouns" and "SJWs" and crap that they include it in everything they talk about. Then they accuse everyone else of obsessing over that stuff.

It's a long road to get to the point where a country doesn't feel their own country or the values their country espouses are no longer worth fighting for or risking your life for.

This has sailed right over your head. All these little cuts add up to the situation we are in now. It's not about obsession over them, it's realizing what they mean in the long run. It's like thinking a kid can be allowed to get away with or encouraged to do tons of little things that you think don't really matter or are cute until you see what enabling that behavior means when they are 16 and want to get high and drive your car. You no longer have a say in their behavior. You ceded that.

Laugh all you want but from my age I can see what we are doing and the results we are already seeing in complete lack of respect for any semblance of order or law or truth. You think that all this enabling does not have an impact on a national and even world level? Think again.

[quote]I bet you think things are going badly for Russia right now, because CNN says so.

The above is from r227 et al., who is also on the "There’s a Reason Somebody Keeps Spamming DL with Race-Baiting Articles" thread insisting that pro-Russia trolls would never even bother to post on DL, and he's also started a thread implying that video of a Russian attack on Ukraine was faked, you can tell because the cameras were in the "perfect position."

He's a troll. Since we can't punch him, perhaps consider deleting him?

R230. I have no idea what he did or didn't plan for and I suspect neither do you. I'm only linking what reports are saying. It doesn't surprise me if they underestimated or ignored the impacts of the projected scenarios though. Predictions like those aren't like predicting the weather. And it sounds like his own people are surprised by these actions.

You don't have to rely on CNN to know that none of this is going well though. Ruble is in the gutter, speculation that Putin will instill martial law, Kremlin's printing money, closure of the Russian stock market for 5 days straight - these are not signs of a thriving domestic situation, not to mention the war in Ukraine.

R231. Nope, and I don't intend to. I did read that editorial piece that was dropped in Russian media after the first few days of the invasion. It was complete rubbish.

Thanks R235. Blocked him, if only to spare my brain cells (as few as they are).

Correction to my reply at R235: he didn't start the thread, but he did question the footage because the cameras were so perfectly positioned, implying that Russia never attacked the nuclear power plant.

Look at it a different way.

A gang of terrorists attacked Ukraine, held their nuclear plant hostage and are now blowing up the country and killing as many civilians as possible, because they have extremist terrorists views and belong to a cult. That’s what’s really happening.

Someone on CNN said at the beginning of this, this is like Ukraine’s 9/11. I think that’s exactly what it is. Putin is a terrorist more than he is a government leader. And in fact, at least some people in the Russian government would be happy to get away from him and his shit-stirring, but they’re hostages too.

Can’t someone in the CIA find somebody in Putin’s inner circle to at least let him be arrested? Pay the guards off or order them away? What would happen if this was framed as, “serial killer Putin is a criminal, hand him over to be tried by The Hague and the rest of you can go about your business”? What if we handed somebody a billion dollars reward to hand him over? That would be cheaper than the alternative.

The person who just posted arguing that one should check their sources(which I agree with) and "listen to what the enemy is saying" seems like a complete idiot.

The nuclear threat is nonsense because Putin has already made his decision. That's why it's nonsense to worry about it. Putin will make up any excuse to use them - it doesn't really matter what we do. Don't you get that yet?

We have to do what is necessary to stop his invasion of Ukraine and make him think twice about invading any other country. If he thought troops in NATO countries - troops that have never set foot on Russian soil or threatened Russia or made any aggressive moves in almost 70 years - constitute a threat to Russia, then how the hell does not Putin's invasion of Crimea and of Ukraine now & the amassing of troops on the borders of NATO countries AND threatening them with nuclear weapons not also equal a threat to the rest of Europe?

We really have to ignore his nuclear threats and do what is needed to stop him. I don't know exactly what that is, but we cannot fail to act out of fear he'll use nukes. That is blackmail and that has to be stood up to. Or else nothing else matters and we are just helpless cowering in the corner.

I agree R241. I don't think the rest of the world sees it that way though. I guess even the small risk of nuclear war is too great a risk in the grand scheme of things.

[quote] “Biden is kowtowing to NATO again. We, the US, are being led around by the nose.”

No, R186 - it is called WORKING COLLABORATIVELY WITH ALLIES who share common values and concerns to map out a mutually acceptable path to address a huge threat.

President Biden has been leading and brokering a realistic plan of action with leaders of the civilized world to effectively address a huge threat to world peace. This is why Germany went from “We’ll send you some helmets” to drastically increasing its defense spending, cutting off the Nord Stream pipeline, and agreeing to participate in imposing severe economic sanctions on Russia.

God, how can one man lie so brazenly and yet be so pathetic at the same time?

The sooner this fuck dies the happier the world will be.

^^^ LMAO!!!!

maybe we can start a GoFundMe page for him.

Putin needs to be taken out

Datalounge should start a meme to punch and delete Putin.

R244 The brazen lying and gaslighting is insane.

R230, lying to ourselves about what? Zelensky was elected in 2019, and tried many times to end the conflicts in the separatist areas with compromise- neither side wanted to compromise, not the Russians, not the far-right Ukrainian nationalists who share many features with the Russians(they speak Ukrainian and tend to be Ukrainian Orthodox; the Russians speak Russian and are Russian Orthodox). So after years of low-level conflict between separatists, now there has to be a war where Russia completely takes Ukraine? They took Crimea in 2014 -that was the wealthy part where the gas is- but couldn’t leave it at that and still have to keep fighting? I mean, Ukraine is not part of the Russian Federation, it’s not part of the Commonwealth of Independent States. It’s not like they were a part of Russia and then the West swept in and created a puppet government. They have their own language. It’s sort of like Putin is saying, I used to have an Empire, so I should have an Empire. It would be like if England decided to reclaim the US on the basis that many of us speak English and we used to be their colony. It’s like the War of 1812. It’s not the the world is unfamiliar with wars that resemble this one in motivation but we hoped to leave them in the past, along with wars of religion, because we’re supposed to have enough information not to dehumanize each other by now.

Guys, look, that troll has, for hours on end, said that we need to go in and do exactly what we all know would cause a nuclear exchange. He keeps telling us to listen to Putin's own words, but when we say that Putin himself has told us he will use his nuclear weaponry, he tells us it's not true.

That's just basic trolling. You can't keep replying to this guy. He's just fucking with you.

Besides, he's used that line about us "cowering" twice now, but with two different accounts. Look for yourself if you don't believe me. He's trolling and he's got sockpuppets.

[quote] It doesn't surprise me if they underestimated or ignored the impacts of the projected scenarios

Re Putin running all scenarios prior to launching this invasion: He’s been very isolated these past 2 years partly due to his extreme fear of Covid (remember those 12 foot long tables he used for his talks with Macron and his own cabinet members?) and the few people he does have in his inner circle are yes-men who are terrified of him. We saw this in action when he berated and humiliated his head of Intel (FSB) publicly on camera. The guy was stuttering and stammering and clearly scared shitless.

Biden is doing exactly what he should be doing. Supporting, advising, but letting NATO and Europe do the heavy work. This conflict is in Europe, after all. American stepping in and ordering people around is going to make it worse, not better.

How are the passionate, valiant military heroes in this thread NOT volunteering? NATO might not be doing what these wise, experienced DL military experts want, but they can certainly do their own part.

16,000 brave warriors have already come to Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian government. I'm certain that number isn't inflated, because what would be the advantage in that?

It'll probably be a romantic experience, like the Spanish Civil War. You'll probably meet a hot Ukrainian, British, or Danish soldier who'll totally want you. Real gun oil for lube - how sexy!

Go for it! Call your Ukrainian embassy.

Do your part, heroes!

This is all about money. Russia is returning to the gold standard and setting up international banking with Asia, hoping to devalue the US petro dollar. He just needed the Ukraine sanctions to drag along the Russian public. This is a ten year economic coup attempt in the making, he isnt going to blow up the world.

Serbia is with Russia.

He should start an alt-global financial standard powered by shiba-inu coin.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard R254. No way he wants to return to the gold standard.

R257 Look into it. For ten years Putin has been buying up gold reserves.

"The Kremlin has more than quadrupled the amount of gold held in Russia’s central bank since 2010, creating a “war chest” through a mix of foreign imports and vast domestic gold reserves as the third largest producer of the precious metal in the world.

Russia held more gold than US dollars for the first time in June 2020 with bullion accounting for more than 23 per cent of the total reserves, which rose to $630bn as of last month."

Telegraph

"The move by the US, the UK and the EU to cut some Russian banks' access to SWIFT is giving other rivals like China* the opportunity to promote its own payments systems in global trade and finance to reduce the international clout of the dollar."

*China created Cross Border International Payment System (CIPS).

Interesting moves, R258. How do the olyigarchi feel about that?

Serbia voted at the UN to condemn the Russian invasion.

Facebook is now blocked in Russia.

R255 Obvious disinformation, you got to try harder than a random twitter account with "breaking news" in the name run by one person/troll farm with a video that's a religious march in Russia.

So when certain bots from the farms realize that their next paycheck isn’t forthcoming will they resort to presenting their hole on OnlyFans? But will OnlyFans even be accessible there? In which case they are so screwed, pardon my pun. A lot of cheap ex-bot ass for sale on the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg, then, I should think. The mind boggles and the dick wiggles.

In 2014 "Jim Rickards, the senior managing director at Tangent Capital and who has written extensively on the subject, told CNBC via email that Russia will move to a gold-backed currency but believes that such a move could be a long way off."

"This is (cough, cough) Vlad from dealer services center calling with (cough, cough) important message about vehicle warranty."

Surprised it took this long to block Facebook, BBC and a host of European news sites also now blocked, state sanctioned information only now, got to love the thrashing around of tyrannical dictatorships when it comes to information.

Successfully retooling an economy takes time, which Russia does not have.

Russia is just retaliating. RT was banned and taking off the air first. Facebook blocked all Russian media.

The crackdown in Russia nothing new but making the first move to censor any news outlet in the so-called Western Democracy is just unheard of. I guess, we apply those rules very selectively.

Even though dark days are ahead, I hope the past week forced Russia to consider their next steps carefully. I was trying to be optimistic about all this, but one of my best friends lives in a Baltic country and he’s worried their next. I’ve tried to reassure him the dynamic is different because his country is in NATO, but Trump did a good job of convincing our allies they can rely on us.

Wow, r209, one of the top investors of that Russian bank was the Kentucky Teachers Retirement System. Their balance has now reportedly gone from $13M to $778,000. They've lost over $12M of retirement funds for their teachers.

Heavily covers how Russia has screwed up thus far.

It feels like life as we've known it is over.

Ah, to add to r271, I see the teacher's union has responded and said they sold early enough that they "only" lost $3.2M.

Weird thing to be invested in, though. Any other state's teacher retirement funds invested in Russian banks?

Gold is tulips for goblins like Putin. It’s just another bubble.

But he’ll be dead anyway when it bursts.

Trolls, consider your options carefully.

R250 can you point to a post by that troll? I'd like to block the right person. I think I know who you mean but not sure.

[quote]how the hell does not Putin's invasion of Crimea and of Ukraine now & the amassing of troops on the borders of NATO countries AND threatening them with nuclear weapons not also equal a threat to the rest of Europe?

It isn't subjective. NATO's is an alliance based on a treaty and Article Five of the treaty states that if an armed attack occurs against one of the member states, it shall be considered an attack against all members, and other members shall assist the attacked member, with armed forces if necessary.

That is the measure.

It is worth noting that at present other than in Ukraine Russian forces are not "amassed" on the border of any other country. He can barely manage this disaster.

Again from Garry Kasparov yesterday - "I spoke w one of the absolute experts on the Russian oil industry, who says you don't have to boycott or block Russian oil. Just block all the tech the industry uses. Parts and service are essential & will grind to a halt faster than a boycott."

This syncs with what my finance friend said yesterday about the reliance on imported tech--Russia underinvested in its infrastructure, even its oil & gas infrastructure, for years.

From another friend (oil futures guy) yesterday - What is happening in global commodity markets right now is a massive repricing that will stop when most, if not all, of Russia's contribution to the global supply/demand commodity chain is "scrubbed" out of the numbers and discounted by the markets. Right now, much of the world is treating all Russian assets as the same, dissociating itself with buying, selling, shipping, promoting or financing anything Russian--the arguable exception is the energy exports, but even here, Russian cargos are being heavily discounted in order to move."

Interesting that out of Brussels just Anthony Blinken said (The Grauniad): "With regard to the no fly zone, Blinken cites Jens Stoltenberg, the Nato general secretary, in saying that Nato has a responsibility to “ensure the war doesn’t spill over beyond Ukraine”. Shooting down Russian planes could lead to a full-fledged war in Europe, Blinken says."

Somebody linked upthread to an article quoting Russian sources who said they are stunned by the sanctions and "we're fucked." That means that inside it's not all vodka shots and high fives. (Assuming it's true.)

Now Blinken is sending a message to everybody else in the Kremlin. We are leaving you an out. We are not going to do what he claims we are going to do.

R261, that's only half a surprise, given its current work with the EU for accession.

NATO has a beautiful new HQ in Brussels. SOM designed it.

^How many Ukrainian refugees can fit inside of it?

Too fancy for that, r282. Unfortunately.

Cell phone outages on the East Coast.

Outages.

Marco Rubio:

IMPORTANT WARNING

In 2018 #Putin used propaganda war to blame rebels for Assad’s chemical weapons attacks

High probability he could carry out real or staged biological/chemical attacks in #Ukraine & blame it on NATO or Ukrainian forces

In one of the unexpected geopolitical twists resulting from Vlad's idiotic decision to invade Ukraine, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Josep Borrell says an agreement may be reached this weekend between Iran and the U.S. to revive the 2015 Iran nuclear deal.

Iran's Oil Minister said y'day that it could reach full oil capacity 2 months after a deal is reached.

Excerpts below of an Atlantic Council (Apr 2021) report on how threatened Putin felt about the prospect of Iran (and more specifically, its oil) warming up to the West (the full piece is linked)

"The leaked audiotape of remarks made by Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif did not just reveal friction within the Iranian political establishment over the nuclear accord, it also disclosed that Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Quds Force commander, Qasem Soleimani—who was killed in a US drone strike in Iraq in January 2020—collaborated with Russia “to sabotage the nuclear deal.” According to Zarif, “Russia did not want the agreement to succeed… because it was not in Moscow’s interests for Iran to normalize relations with the West.” He said that Soleimani even traveled to Moscow in an attempt to undermine it.

This leak is consistent with reporting in 2015 that Moscow was very nervous that the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) would negatively affect Russia. One concern was that the agreement would lead to a broader US-Iran rapprochement that would marginalize Russia and even undermine its role as a great power. This may not have been a possibility that Western analysts even considered, but it is one that Russian analysts seriously anticipated. Moreover, with economic sanctions lifted on Tehran, Russian observers feared that increased Iranian petroleum exports would lower oil and natural gas prices, thus reducing the petroleum export income on which Moscow heavily depends."

Just updated.

Jcf, and to know that the clown is exactly the same minus IQ points and may be reelected. DT was itching to use nukes. Just itching to.

John Bolton tells ⁦the Washington Post that Trump was just waiting for a 2nd term before pulling out of NATO. He tells the pro-Trump Newsmax: "[Trump] barely knew where Ukraine was... It's just not accurate to say that Trump's behavior somehow deterred the Russians. In almost every case, sanctions were imposed [on Russia] with Trump complaining about it, saying we were being too hard. No one’s been softer on Russia."

Shame on that son of a bitch Trump. May he and his blood-fart children never live it down.

Russian Senator Lyudmila Narusova breaks with the official line and admits significant losses: "Yesterday the conscripts, who were forced to sign a contract or signed for them, were withdrawn from the war zone in Ukraine. But from a company of a hundred men only four were left alive."

[quote]Surprised it took this long to block Facebook, BBC and a host of European news sites also now blocked, state sanctioned information only now, got to love the thrashing around of tyrannical dictatorships when it comes to information.

Actually, they're blocking Facebook and Twitter but seem to be leaving Instagram and WhatsApp alone—likely to prevent a revolt, as those two (along with homegrown V Kontakte) are much more popular in Russia than Facebook.

Russia is a country that abuses its young people systematically. Think about the youth (and the wasted life) of the conscripts Putin sent to Ukraine to kill their neighbors. And those are just the cheap Army grunts. Putin's Russia doesn't even care about young people representing the country in the highest pinnacles of athletic achievement: think about the Olympic figure skaters in Beijing, doped by their fat, drunk, power-mad coaches.

Russia's young people deserve better from life than what they are getting under pig Putin.

[quote]Russia secretly feared the Iran nuclear deal.

Which is likely why Trump & the Republicans were adamantly opposed to it.

Yeah, well, Tehran is in the fucking catbird seat now. They will extract the very best long-term concessions possible right up until the ink is dry.

Iran has also been selling its oil to China throughout the sanctions period, so they've got established energy ties to China, and I'm sure Vlad's jealous about that, too.

Here's an interesting story and infographic from the BBC yesterday (Thurs) about trade ties between Russia and China. Much was made of the Xi-Vlad pre-Olympics powwow/photo op in which they agreed to boost their bilateral trade to $250bn by 2024.

"However," (from the BBC article) "the EU as a bloc is by far the biggest trading partner with Russia. In 2021, total trade between the two was worth almost twice as much as China's trade with Russia."

And earlier today (per Reuters), the EU said it is considering suspending Most Favored Nation status for Russia at the WTO (which Canada has already done, BTW), which would allow them to impose tariffs and quotas on Russian imports.

R293, this is not the first time there was news about conscripts being abused - Al Jazeera reported on a terrible case back in 2010.

So, assuming the conscripts had told their parents about whether they intended to become career soldiers- which would be kind of a normal thing to do- I’m assuming some of this “trick” stuff was anticipated by higher ups in the military? Because Putin kept saying he was ready for anything. Maybe he was ready for Ukrainians to be wanting to surrender instead of fight when confronted with people not very eager to kill them. But he could also have thought, when the tanks came through with the conscripts doing “exercises” that he could demoralize the Ukrainians later in the war - make them feel guilty about the first people they killed and demoralize them when the real hardened troops come in. Tanks all look the same, right?

So with Facebook/Twitter shut down over there won’t it dawn on more than a few that Russia isn’t just attacking military installations? Do the math, people.

[r302] yes. This is the horror of what’s happening. Everyone in America is sharing memes of how hot the leader of Ukraine is completely unaware of what’s to come.

To the contrary, everyone in America who's been paying attention to this has expected Russia to bomb, rape, and pillage everything in sight. We're just waiting, along with the Ukrainians. And what we've noticed is that as we approach the dawn of the tenth day since the invasion, the Russians conspicuously still haven't taken Kyiv. No matter how brutal they are, their pitiful incompetence has been exposed before the world—Putin pissed away whatever global power Russia had in exchange for a military quagmire.

R304 is right. We all know how horrible Russia will be. There is no naivety in Ukraine.

Which makes Zelensky’s defiance to stay even more admirable. And the fact that he’s so public about it? Amazing.

Where is Vlad, again?

CNN will stop broadcasting in Russia.

[quote]Russia says it’s blocking access to FB — but NOT WhatsApp and Instagram. Both of which are much more popular in Russia than FB.

Take that, Zuckerborg. Even the Russians don't like your bloated Gladys Kravitz of a technosewer.

The large company I work for in NYC is closing their Moscow location - effective immediately. I feel sorry for the innocent Russians who are now unemployed because of Putin's shit. We had to remove their location (and all references) from our global site.

[quote]According to Zarif, “Russia did not want the agreement to succeed… because it was not in Moscow’s interests for Iran to normalize relations with the West.” He said that Soleimani even traveled to Moscow in an attempt to undermine it.

And who did him the favor of withdrawing the US from the JCPOA in 2018?

Answer: Putin's asset in the White House

Cell phone outages on the East Coast.

Phew! I never got rid of my landline.

Not only gas prices, but wheat prices have spiked too (Ukraine supplies 40% of Europe’s wheat.)

Out of curiosity, what are gas prices doing in your area? Here in SW VA regular is $3.79/gal today. Supposedly gas spiked by 11 cents/gal. overnight.

A friend in California told me yesterday she paid $6 a gallon. Is that possible?

Mariupol, Ukraine today. Coastal city on the Sea of Azov. They have no electricity, heat or water and are running out of food and medicine. And Putin is bombing the city back to the stone age. He is waging Medieval siege warfare on these people.

Louis Vuitton among other luxury brands are closing their stores and online shopping in Russia. What will wives and girl friends of the rich business men buy now? They cannot fly to Paris and get them there. I can predict angry women and fights at homes of Putin’s yes men.

[quote]the Gladys Kravitz of a technosewer

Fuck pointless bitchery, THIS is the new tagline for the Datalounge you miserable motherfuckers!

It's Aleppo all over again. Putin just doesn't care. He has zero conscience. He's no longer smart. This is dumb and will drag Russia backwards, will mean more NATO and Europe re-militarising.

Very sad... a little village bombed because they could, with no aid agencies there to help those who survived.

The reporter cracks... but he gets it right.

Not Closing Clinique Counter!

An article from September of last year about conscription and hazing in the Russian Army. Someone posted a YouTube video recently where a captured Russian soldier claimed Russian senior officers were shooting both 1) Russian wounded and 2) anyone who tried to run (Russian conscripts/enlisted)

Bloomberg news exiting from Russia as well as CNN. Guess they’re all afraid their personnel will be rounded up and thrown in prison. This is scary.

R314- Not to mention no plastic surgery or filler touch ups!

I just read an interview with a Russian model who has US citizenship. She left Russia three days into the Ukraine war and has friends in Ukraine. It was fucked up. 'Nothing to do with me! Blah blah, my bank cards have been frozen'. Never expressed sympathy with Ukrainians or horror for the war. Supposedly she was an academic superstar who studied geopolitics but she was unable to grasp that this is a war, probably already WWIII.

Too many Russians (the majority) are so horribly cynical and nihilist. It's the worst thing about their culture.

Wonder when their last on location reporting will be? Matthew Chance, Clarissa Ward, Anderson?

Are there even flights to Russia anymore? I know Aeroflot or Deathtrap or whatever it's called is banned from most airspace. I'm just thinking if you're the rare bird - the oligarch without a private jet - how the hell do we throw you out if you can't leave?

This kind of stuff... I'm no fan of Pence but I think as Trump's star falls a bit that stuff like this is a silver lining. Anything that makes him look worse to swing voters, for fear he wins the nomination for 2024.

R320 R323 BBC is out too, as of yesterday. Everyone’s pulling out.

Hopefully not just swing voters R325. There must be some Republicans left who remember the Cold War and will turn on Trump for his blatant treachery.

That's brilliant, R319. So how many troops do the Russians have left now?

R328 "So how many troops do the Russians have left now?"

Enough.

[quote]Again from Garry Kasparov yesterday - "I spoke w one of the absolute experts on the Russian oil industry, who says you don't have to boycott or block Russian oil. Just block all the tech the industry uses. Parts and service are essential & will grind to a halt faster than a boycott." This syncs with what my finance friend said yesterday about the reliance on imported tech--Russia underinvested in its infrastructure, even its oil & gas infrastructure, for years.

This Russian economist educated at the U of Chicago agrees. I can read Russian and the guy says Russians are "fucked, even doubly fucked because even the educated Russians don't fully realize what's going to happen to them."

Says main industries will be hit due to dependence on imported parts and container shipments that are being stalled. The agriculture sector will also be hit because 40% of the seeds are imported, 90% for potato seeds. If this goes on, he expects mass deficits skyrocketing unemployment, dwindling tax revenues impacting the government-salaried people.

Also says a lot of people are leaving/trying to leave. He expects Putin will soon impose exit visas at least for key professions, if not for all citizens.

Silly.

R330, he's already forbid exits with more than $10,000 cash.

R332, so the guy's anticipations are being confirmed, his tweet is from a couple days ago.

Watching CNN’s report of sick children taken to safe in Poland is heart breaking and makes me hate Putin more.

R326 BBC is giving in Instagram a link how to watch it in Russia.

Konstantin Kisin from Triggernometry on BBC Question Time re Putin and possible nuclear usage. That's some heady company there, KK.

R335 Until Putin cancels instagram too..

Yeah, Russian airlines are fucked. Aeroflot boss Mikhail Poluboyarinov has left his post and likely fled Russia, according to Russian media reports.

Russia says they are considering suspending elections. It already was a dictatorship but now it's a full-blown dictatorship. No pretence any more.

Communications with the world cut off to the citizens sounds like North Korea.

Huge antiwar demonstration in Prague. Another one in Tblisi, Georgia (they’ve had more than one with huge crowds.) Doesn’t seem to be catching on here in the US (probably because it’s not right on our doorstep like it is on theirs.)

Yes R312.....it's over $6 a gallon in some places in LA County at least. But I haven't shopped around and haven't had to fill the tank in a couple weeks. (work from home).

r330, where did you learn Russian?

Naveed Jamali @NaveedAJamali

I absolutely believe there are Americans on the ground in Ukraine, and this is another reason for that.

Zelenskyy getting snippy.

Bahaha.....CNN is reporting that "Putin is calling for a return to normalized international relations" as he continues to wage war on Ukraine.

^ this says to me that he's bluffing with his hints at nuclear threats and expecting the world to cower and negotiate with him.

^ and he's getting pissy that nobody is

I hope people don't all Twitter on Zelensky. He must be desperate.

People absolutely understand that he is desperate. Nobody thinks he’s being annoying for being very passionate

A desperate megalomaniac with nukes is terrifying.

R350 Plus I don’t think he’s slept in days.

To the Russian Trolls- do something for your country. Remember this? This and Yesterday by the Beatles. (if you can still listen to music anymore). It makes me sad for you, we are pitying the Russian people.

Winds of Change Follow the Moskva Down to Gorky Park Listening to the wind of change An August summer night Soldiers passing by Listening to the wind of change The world is closing in Did you ever think That we could be so close, like brothers The future's in the air Can feel it everywhere Blowing with the wind of change Take me to the magic of the moment On a glory night Where the children of tomorrow dream away In the wind of change Walking down the street Distant memories Are buried in the past, forever I follow the Moskva Down to Gorky Park Listening to the wind of change Take me to the magic of the moment On a glory night Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams With you and me Take me to the magic of the moment On a glory night Where the children of tomorrow dream away In the wind of change The wind of change Blows straight into the face of time Like a storm wind that will ring the freedom bell For peace of mind Let your balalaika sing What my guitar wants to say Take me to the magic of the moment On a glory night Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams With you and me Take me to the magic of the moment On a glory night Where the children of tomorrow dream away In the wind of change

R346. Putin sounds like he regrets starting this shitshow. Serves him right.

I hope he suffers the same fate as Mussolini.

I pray for this for Putin, r354.

Except I want him alive while Ukrainians abuse him.

R346 didn't provide a quote. And zero context. Yet we're desperate so we run with it.

Mariupol is going to fall soon. Bye, Azov B.

Putin was plaaaaayed by the Chinese.

“ Mariupol is going to fall soon. Bye, Azov B.”

LIAR! That happened last week!

Interesting stuff. Pro-Ukraine.

Open-source intelligence.

What's your problem R356? You can't watch CNN yourself or look at their website?

Here's the text for your lazy ass and a link to their web site.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on the international community to normalize relations with his country, while claiming it could benefit from sanctions.

“We have no bad intentions, there is no need to escalate the situation, impose restrictions, we fulfil all obligations,” Putin said during a flag raising ceremony of a new Russian ferry, a joint venture between Russia and Turkey.

“If someone does not want to cooperate with us within the framework of single cooperation, and by doing so harms themselves, they will, of course, harm us too," Putin added.

Putin went on to say the Russian economy would have adapt to the current situation.

“We will just have to move some projects a little to the right, to acquire additional competencies. But we will still solve the problems that we face” he said. “In the end, we will even benefit from this because we will acquire additional competencies.”

R356 is there a link that supports your comment? What is the source of your opinion?

Agreed, R350. For the pressure he's under Zelenskyy continues to handle himself extremely well. In his position I would just be blubbering and screaming at the cameras. He's doing his job, looking out for the people and the country he leads. This is full MARY! but I don't remember the last time I respected a public figure this much. His courage makes me cry multiple times a day.

If we all live through this disaster, they'll get Putin for war crimes. If they can find him.

Maybe he will kill himself.

This is excellent.

I think when the conditions in Russia become intolerable, someone will turn on Putin and eliminate him. Easier said than done, I realize, but I think it's only a matter of time.

R367- Maybe his physician?

Now CNN seems to be confirming this, reporting that “US, NATO officials believe Russia poised to bombard cities into submission, likely to cause sgnificant civilian casualties.”

Also great. He's totally for Ukraine but he's being realistic.

So when will the oligarchs start putting bullets into their heads? I think at least one will take out his wife/gf/mistress with him.

R363 If you’re really crying “multiple times a day” you might want to unplug yourself from the news for awhile and go for a walk or something.

Companies breaking with Putin.

Okay, I’m a jaded fuck and watch too much TV.

There’s no chance Zelensky is in on this, is he?

His initial refusal to join NATO.

Then this half-assed attack by Putin, sparing Zelensky in order to provoke the US and NATO into WWIII, a bait not taken.

Then Zelensky begs to join NATO after the fact, which would require NATO nations to join the war but, again, no dice.

Now he disparages NATO after refusing to establish no-fly zone, attempting to guilt NATO nations in the process.

Could the war with Ukraine have been just a flimsy show of Putin’s to initiate the war he really wanted to fight.

With China waiting in the wings to swoop in and assist Russia to defeat democracy once and for all (because Covid/biological warfare didn’t go as planned).

?

Cheap shot.

You need help R374. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

R374 Occam's Razor - Putin wanted to take over Ukraine, so he invaded. There was a long build up/preparation of troops and supplies at the border.

HAHAHA

I know, I know, r376

All of this stuff since before Trump took office, the constant fakery, so much lying and bad performances, and “wait, look over there”, FAKE NEWS, Jussie, 1/6, it’s all insane television.

Anyway, you get my point?

I was just wondering if anybody else was like, “Okay, what’s really going on here?”

R374, I think Zelensky is Russian agent. Meanwhile Russians brought food supplies to the occupied cities. Thank you, Putin!!!! That's what true liberators do.

R379 stop posting Putin PR bullshit lies. It's not the least bit funny or entertaining.

Russian soldiers looted Ukrainian stores, then were filmed “helping” Ukrainians by “giving” them “Russian” food. In reality, they’re just looters and used locals or others posing as locals for Russian propaganda.

How many innocent people have to die in order for the whole world to invade Russia on all sides and squash the lunatic pinhead?

The entire world.

Gee, r379, too bad about the graying out, huh?

The R379 troll isn't grayed out for me. I have myself set to "asbestos eyeballs" so that's prob why.

Oh darn, r384. I thought I was set there as well. Well, hopefully they'll get red-tagged...so appropriate.

Russia Arrested Over 5,000 Protesters Who May Be Conscripted Into Their Military

Russia conscripting people who don't want war. Brilliant.

Well, this just gets better and better. The Russian army in Ukraine will be getting an influsion of angry, unwilling conscripts who sympathize with the enemy. I'm sure they'll take especially good care of their units' decaying materiel and Chinese-made tires.

*infusion*

I'm not drunk.

R386 that sounds like a great strategy. Conscripting protestors who are rebelling against the war are the perfect people to forcibly send out as soldiers to fight the war. Note: this assumes the goal is for Russia to LOSE.

Bizarre. I cannot see r 379 and I have no one on block

Ok. Just set to asbestos eyeballs and I see r379. She’s just drunk trolling.

Yeah, that'll just compound the stress of the existing soldiers.They'll be trying to stop the conscripts from running the minute a battle starts, whilst under fire and with orders to shoot their own countrymen (with all the psychological damage that will do).

Terrible strategy.

R393 - Vlad, is that you?

I cannot believe conscription is needed for Russia.

Terrible strategy?? Only if you are on the side of the Russians!

On a purely frivolous note, someone could raise a ton of money for the Ukraine by selling knockoffs of that cool Ukrainian military t-shirt poor Zelensky's been wearing nonstop (see R345.)

My husband says that someone in our neighborhood came to the door asking him to sign a card for the mail lady because she’s from Ukraine, They didn’t ask for money or anything, just to sign and write what you want.

No, you misunderstand. Russian not your first language?

Protesting conscripts go to guard Crimean natural resources - at the bottom of the Black Sea.

Conscription in Russia is used to silence dissent. They barely pay conscripts at all; soldiers aren’t well-paid but they are paid 3,000 times as much as conscripts. So someone who has to work virtually without pay under harsh conditions for the military and still remains unwilling to enlist could make a choice like that because they’re an opponent of the state or at least not a fan of what the military is doing. If they are in the tanks with the soldiers, it probably affects others at home who would otherwise be rooting wholeheartedly for Ukraine.

R400. Is it effective though? They're basically slaves.

Oligarch yachts seized in Italy

Not much else announced in the West in terms of asset seizure. Just that Abramovich is giving up Chelsea.

“Dear Russian Conscripts,

Defect and we won’t kill you. Unlike your commanding officers.

Sincerely,

The World”

Dictatorships can’t happen if people aren’t scared. More people have to fight back. Not less. They can’t lock everybody up. Always remember that just in case it happens here.

Russia SUCKED under the Tsars

Russia SUCKED under Communism

Russia SUCKS now

It’s a beautiful country. I remember learning about the geography in school and then later the architecture. What a wonderful place it would be without the stranglehold upon it. It has the potential to be glorious.

This is why you must never let people like trump and company to gain an inch. They would love to make the US the same way. And came close to doing so.

R243. I’m betting that NATO will not engage or intervene to save those who remain in Ukraine. We will witness much more carnage which amounts to us being on the sidelines as spectators. Is there some benefit in that? Then AFTER we watch avidly on TV like those lookie-loos craning their necks at a deadly car accident and simply drive on by, then these sanctions will teach Russia a lesson not to do it again. Right? Something along those lines….

Your suggestion, r407?

R395, I'm surprised, too. Russia is such a large country.

Not R407, but assassination maybe R408?

Not that that ever really works out well.

We need to sanction Belarus. There is growing talk of establishing a No-fly zone as US/NATO “illegally” did before in other non-NATO countries (I’m guessing in Syria.). Except it’s obviously more dicey since Russia isa nuclear power. Anthony Blinken responded to a growing swell of opinions to do so, as well as pleas from Zelenskyy to save his citizens. IF we do, of course it is dangerous and possibly WW III. My point is that the West has stepped in before to prevent massive civilian casualties. I’m betting that no matter what unfolds, NATO will not do it. That’s all.

r405 Is it harsh weather? Or too far away from Europe? It has rarely been a functioning country.

It took Pearl Harbor to get us into WW II.

Given Putin’s isolation and mental instability, he’ll may fire tactical nukes in Europe if he wants to. There is no red lines to him now.

There are.

If things get worse — and they are definitely going to get much worse very soon — we will further move toward intervention. We’e been moving in that direction and have been for the last few weeks. As Fiona Hill observed, we’re already in World War III — even if we don’t recognize it.

We have been here before during the cold war. Russia marched into countries and took them over and we could not do a thing about it because of the nukes.

Perhaps sanctions on China? OUCH! The Chinese Hitler is abetting Poutine and perhaps these shock-and-awe Western sanctions may have much less of an effect on Russia than we believe. So fuck China, too!

We’re all in for a world of hurt, methinks.

Does anyone know about the history of Russia's expansion to Siberia?

It's arguably a darker, sadder, and more horrible history than what the Americans did to their indigenous peoples. That's saying something.

How about an unofficial democracy coalition? None of that would change the nato rules. That would still stand.

But a collation between Ukraine and 5-10 other countries. They can save Ukraine that way.

Or maybe the EU can vote quickly to make a war pact to protect Europe. Still wouldn’t change NATO.

There can be more that one alliance. There can be overlapping alliances in addition to without changing NATO.

Leaving Ukraine to be ripped to pieces is not an option. They have to win. They have to win for democracy everywhere or it’s over. It ends right there with Ukraine.

We must find a way to help these people. Immediately!!

We cannot sanction China. China owns us. We moved our entire industrial system to China. Thanks, unregulated capitalism! We couldn’t build factories here if we wanted to. The billionaires have all the money. And look what billionair3s do….import & sell Chinese crap. Make social media on the internet, which will be destroyed. Make crap electric cars. Own hedge funds. Buy up real estate.

When this is over I want to visit Lviv. It looks adorable.

I'm sure there is more help than the public knows going on behind the scenes. But will NATO intervene? No. No-fly zone? No. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and NATO is a defensive alliance. The west will not break their own rules to take on a nuclear power, it just won't happen.

As for assassination, that's one somewhat likely way for this to end but even there, the Russians will have to do it themselves. If Putin has truly gone mad and if anyone on his side actually thinks he might seriously be thinking about launching any nukes, the odds of him getting a bullet to the back of the head get a lot higher.

Russia is going to restrict access to Twitter and block Facebook.

According ABC news reporter James Longman who is currently in Russia reporting. A recent reliable poll says that almost 70% of Russians especially those in rural areas believe what Putin is saying about Ukraine and that the West is "lying".

What about r420, r425.

There is no law stopping say the US, UK, and others from sending a coalition squadron to broker peace in Ukraine. There would change NATO or affect it one bit.

Surely they have the same protocols we have where the order to launch missles it goes through a chain. Mostly the generals there I would assume.

Vice's Russian Roulette series, all about Ukraine. It's incredible.

No, there isn't a law stopping anyone from the kind of thing you're talking about, R427. I would still bet large amounts of money it won't happen. It's the nukes. That's it. Russia has nukes. Anything viewed as a provocation (and I think both sides understand that western boots on the ground would count as a provocation, as morally defensible as that would be) is literally gambling on nuclear war. The west won't do it. No one sane would.

Hell, even if we did I still think it far more likely Putin's own people would take him out before any nukes were launched. I also think he's bluffing. But what if he isn't? Who wants to make that gamble - the one where if you lose the world ends?

Some of the people who are experts have been saying he also might blow up a reactor and turn it into a dirty bomb. VP is a sadist and a psychopath. He did this in Aleppo and we couldn't do much there either. We generally try to work behind the scenes when dealing with Russia. We kept the pressure on in Afghanistan when Russia was occupying it and they finally had to leave.

Well the. Bikes would be returned from 10 different countries

*nukes

We can’t just watch these people die. It’s not a movie.

Z must live. Ukraine must survive. There is no other option.

If you were Zelenzki you would take that bet.

I do wish that NATO would step in. You would hope that Putin and his generals wouldn't push the button unless they faced an existential threat, which protecting Ukraine would not be (regardless of whatever propaganda Russia puts out).

As R430 said though it's a gamble and one NATO has evidently calculated is not worth playing with. Frankly, I also think he's bluffing, or even if he isn't his generals certainly must be. We're not making these decisions though so who knows what sources NATO is relying on to make these hard choices.

Democracies will be ashamed of themselves if they get tricked into thinking they can’t respond militarily.

Of course they can. They have to. You don’t need a pact to tell you that.

But there isn’t much time. It’s now or never.

How lucky was Ukraine to get an extra week to prepare. That goes for the world’s armies. I hope the used it to get ready.

Of course Zelenskyy would take that bet. He's being shot at. His people are being killed. We in the west are not. If we were, we would take the gamble. This is how it works. If you're getting shot at, you'll do anything to live. If you're not being shot at, you get to weigh up the risks.

I desperately want the west to ride in and save the day. I'm the MARY! from above, weeping over Zelenskyy's heroism. But it won't happen. Not in the way we're talking about here, anyway. Instead of going on I'll just link this clip from the movie Three Kings, which sums up my feelings on this situation and how it will play out in less than 60 seconds.

You don’t need NATO to help. They said no. Let’s look at some ways around them for now.

Just make a new coalition of Europeans plus US plus Japan just for this mission.

Send in some drones at least. That is not boots on the ground.

They're being given drones. We've already seen footage of Russian convoys getting fucked up by drones.

[quote] he Western/civilized economy has spent the past several days arranging an order in which Russia is not even a FACTOR, and IT WASN'T EVEN THAT HARD.

WE’RE STILL IMPORTING FOSSIL FUEL FROM RUSSIA.

Anyone else think of this re: Putin? I remember learning about madman theory in my high school history class.

Oh shit I guess someone else did think of it - there's a new entry on the Wiki page that wasn't there a few days ago: Vladimir Putin.

[quote] They have to win

They’re not going to win. How could anyone have any delusions about that? Ukraine is putting on a good show. But this nonsense about the Russian army begging for food and being “stalled” is just that. Nonsense. Those convoys are waiting for the shelling to force a surrender. Then they’re going to go into the cities. Molotov cocktails don’t affect tanks. Putin has been using oil money to beef up his military and has spent the last 7 years preparing for this with his generals & advisors. They’ve looked at every single possible complication in order to snuff out any resistance. Putin loves war. He built a cathedral to war. He’s been cozying up to the Orthodox Church and to Muslims in the Russian federation. He’s been going all over the RF posing for pictures like a western politician to be seen by the people as a friendly but strong “fair” guy. He goes to the Russian equivalent of county fairs for photo ops. He’s developed RT to be just like a modern western cable news show. Paul Manafort earned his money. He taught Putin how to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes just like American politicians do. “Man of the people.” “Friend to the common man.”

People are believing straight up Cold War propaganda as if the Russian military can’t find their thumbs in their own asses. They’ve been training for this. The grunts do the heavy work, then the lifers will come in, arrest Ukrainian politicians & put in an entirely Russian-friendly president & cabinet.

And we’re not going to do anything, just like we didn’t do anything in Hungary or Czechoslovakia. Because we’re not going to engage in a war with Russia. America’s got a good thing going & we’re going to hang onto it as long as we can. Why blow the whole thing up over Ukraine?

Hillary wasn’t the only one who knew Trump was Putin’s puppet. She knew Putin intervened & stole the election. The horror was that the rightwing NYC FBI office had the power & determination to fuck over an American presidential candidate in favor of a Russian puppet. Because she was a female and a democrat. The macho rightwing FBI sucked Putin’s cock to fuck over the woman who sounded too much like mommy when she was mad.

You can thank the domestic protectors, the FBI, for opening the door and inviting the Russian vampire into our country.

[quote]You don’t need NATO to help. They said no. Let’s look at some ways around them for now. Just make a new coalition of Europeans plus US plus Japan just for this mission.

You're missing the fundamental part of NATO, which is that if any NATO country is at war with Russia, ALL NATO countries are automatically at war with Russia. You can't just have the US or some other country say they're acting only on behalf of themself in engaging Russia.....everyone is automatically part of it if they're a NATO country.

The US military sent bombs into Syria. Anybody remember that? Not sure we had NATO permission.

"Breezy" was my "Daddy-Long-Legs"!

Bunp

Social media queens are beating Russian trolls at their own game.

Serbs proving what disgusting people they are yet again. Truly a shithole country.

Bit niche but here's more about Narusova mentioned in R293:

"@ggatehouse

Narusova was married to Anatoly Sobchak, once Putin’s boss, who died mysteriously as Putin ascended to the presidency. I once asked her whether she thought her husband had been murdered. She didn’t answer. But said: I have the documents that show how he died. In a safe. Abroad."

Moldova better get some kind of western protection because they could very well be next in Putin)s land grab. Just look at the Belarusian President’s map. Russia wants more land with access to the sea. Then onto Odessa. He won’t stop unless something/one takes them out first.

Putin’s threat of nukes shows signs of weakness, not strength.

Nobody with a gun gets close to Putin. You think they don’t go through metal detectors, like we make congress go through metal detectors? You think the KGB doesn’t watch everyone 24 hours a day who are close to putin ? They do. He’s not getting a bullet in the head. Stalin killed millions. Was he assassinated? No. Many countries wanted Lenin dead. Every major western country supplied the White Army with money & arms to overthrow the bolsheviks, Did anyone assassinate Lenin? No. Cuba was only 90 miles away. Should’ve been easy to get rid of Castro. We couldn’t. The only people we can assassinate are people who thought we’re on our side. We were allied with Saddam & supplied him with arms & poison gas so he’d go to war with Iran. We were enemies of Ghaddafi, then we were friends with him. Then we killed him. We were pals with Sadat after he decided to stop fighting with Israel. We didn’t kill Noriega, who worked closely with the CIA, but we went in & deposed him. Putin’s no dummy,

Putin has surrounded himself with loyalists for 30 years. Anyone who got out of line, or was the least bit suspect to Putin got a polonium milkshake. If there was any way he could be taken out, he’d have been dead years ago.

A gun is not necessary to accomplish the job. There are many ways to accomplish this task without having to get a metal object through a metal detector. It could be very simple if more than 1 person from his inner circle act in collusion. If the world keeps tightening the screws on Putin, people close to him will experience more and more disillusionment and it might be enough to spur them into whatever action is needed to Put-out the trash.

Very few people can get close to him and those who can probably have little incentive to take him out. They are likely either very well-compensated (not guaranteed to continue if they took him out) or they are foreign heads of state.

Someone in that list of "very few people" could be convinced $$$.

He's 69. If they said he died of a heart attack, people would happily accept it.

R447, you don't have to be at war to take military action.

To argue that all countries in the world who are not part of NATO are just shit out of luck and ripe for the picking if anyone feels like invading them is ridiculous. I mean, if that's the case, let's go get Sweden and Brazil. Obviously no one will do anything if we take them over because we are a nuclear power so no on in NATO will do anything to help them.

And, does blowing nuclear radiation all over Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe constitute an attack that requires full NATO retribution?

We like to pretend there is some rule book with nice little plotted out "if this happens, then this happens" to rule all situations but that's just not how the world works. This should have been stopped at Crimea. Putin should have been taken out years ago. Now he needs to be stopped now at a higher cost. If he's not stopped now, the cost for next time and next time and next time will just getting higher and higher.

Here's the latest UK intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine:

R462: maybe Russia is losing steam🤞

The Norwegian Nordic combined team supporting Ukraine. There is broad support for Ukraine here in Norway. Russian athletes are banned from competing in Norway.

At least Norway is in Nato and not an immediate geographic priority for Putin. Finland and Sweden ought to join Nato as soon as possible though.

Maybe now that Putin has Ukraine, I can get Rudy, Paul and Steve in there to uncover every secret thing...

TRUMP: Don’t worry, Vlad. When I win my second term you can waltz into Ukraine and we will support your claim in front of NATO.

VLAD: We should do it now! Why wait? You are US President now.

TRUMP: Listen, I gotta loot America now while the getting is good. Then I’ll help you in my next term. I promise.

2022:

TRUMP: Hey, Vlad, you promised to pay all of my legal fees

VLAD: Fucking lying asshole!

[quote]Stalin killed millions. Was he assassinated?

The difference is the nukes. Putin launching nukes means not just the murder of millions of OTHERS but the deaths (and if not death, condemnation to a hellish, hopeless future on a ruined earth) of the loved ones of everyone close to him. Unless he's surrounded by automatons, those people have spouses, children, families. They know what nuclear war will mean for those loved ones. Launching nukes is self-annihilation as well as other-annihilation. That's a situation in which you could reasonably expect even those close and loyal to him to sacrifice their own lives to stop him.

[quote]The macho rightwing FBI sucked Putin’s cock

Pics please.

[quote] Putin launching nukes means not just the murder of millions of OTHERS but the deaths (and if not death, condemnation to a hellish, hopeless future on a ruined earth) of the loved ones of everyone close to him.

There is no honor amongst thieves. His inner circle sees its bank accounts and assets diminish in value. Right now, I think Putin's biggest enemy are the oligarchs and either Putin gets rid of them or they get rid of him with the help of Putin's inner circle sharing intel when it's best to bring him down. The inner circle doesn't have to do much, they just have to look the other way when he's in need of saving.

^^Crossing fingers^^^

R407 The suggestion you're looking for (I'm not the poster you asked) has been staring the West in the face from the beginning.

His bluff has to be called and Ukraine has to be fully supported militarily, especially a no fly zone with Rusduan bombers being shot down.

If he wants mutual self-destruction. So be it.

That old flood and the ark story is a sapient acknowledgement that sometimes good cleanout is the only way to go.

His own people could vate less about having Ukraine and will turn on him in millions if he really tries it on. So will China.

If the West lets him get away with this by threatening nuclear war, why should he ever stop again?

The West won't be able to look itself in the face again if it let's him devastate a democratic country within Europe. This dwarfs the newsreel footage from Hungary in 1956.

And everyone, everywhere will see it in Technicolour the way news is today.

No speech about values will sound anything but hollow ever again, increasing the cynicism of populations everywhere.

The West's credibility is on the line. It's a point ftom which there is no turning back.

And what's more, Vlad and Jinping know it.

They're waiting to see how gates were willing to sell our souls even to the devil right on the doorstep.

And historically we know what happens when you make those deals with himself.

I know how it sounds. But he's not going to stop.

So after all those billions, all that rhetoric, and enabling a decades long horrific insurgency (the bill for Afghanistan was trillions for America), this time on the West's front step, all we get is our own shame writ large and forcing us to admit that we're just the same posturing hypocrites we claim not to be.

Russian soldiers are starting to rape women's they get into the cities and towns.

How many fucking times are we goung to do this?

I say call the bastard's bluff, admit Ykrainw into NATO alonf with Finland and Moldova next week, and let's see Vladimir Putin invade Finland.

It's time to out up or shut up.

It was only the New York (Mafia) FBI field office under (NY Mafia) Giuliani that betrayed America. Not the entire FBI. Those assholes even foretold of a “surprise” that was to occur that would seriously damage HRC campaign. I remember seeing Ghouliani’s glee at the future prospect. He couldn’t hold himself completely back and said we’d have to wait a few days. Then, if my memory doesn’t fail me, the Pukes pressured Fuckface Comey to reopen the investigation into Hill’s emails. Days later, HRC lost the 2016 US Presidential election to Orange FatAss.

R472. Wha…? Please calm down and state yourself more clearly.

[quote]If he wants mutual self-destruction. So be it.

I suspect r472 stated himself VERY clearly.

R475 Thank you.

However, I think he meant the incoherent poster after me.

What I meant, of course, is that I don't believe Vlad wants mutual self-destruction.

He, and we, and the Russian people, as well, need to find out who we really are. The latter are no more interested in all thos than we are. They want prosperity and nice lives.

If we never find out, it means the cycle never stops.

Either we are who we say we are, or we aren't.

As Anne Applebaum said, people who play by the rules talk to Russia as if it cares about rules.

It doesn't.

So ditch the rules.

It's 7:30 EST, I'm reading the last 90 posts, and it's like all the grownups went to bed at around 10.

All military deaths in peacetime or wartime are state secrets, according to a law signed by Putin in 2015. Conscription could easily just be a cover for rounding up many of the people who oppose him and then disposing of them in one way or another. There are few safeguards for what happens to anyone. He also knows who opposes him online because the government monitors the internet.

[quote]It's 7:30 EST, I'm reading the last 90 posts, and it's like all the grownups went to bed at around 10.

Back to the adults:

More adulting:

For those who insist that we go in and DO SOMETHING, that is not going to happen. I asked our son, who was home recently on military leave, how he thought this was going to go, would we be stepping in. He told me that we will not step in, but we probably should. They would just let Ukraine fall and sanction the Russians to death. But the sanctions will not do everything they expect to because China is still doing business with them, and tacitly supporting Putin. In another few years, they will be firmly in control of Ukraine, they will move on to another country, wash, rinse, repeat. Better to take him out now than give him the chance to place defensive armor right next to Europe.

But they won't.

[quote] In another few years, they will be firmly in control of Ukraine, they will move on to another country

This is very much open to doubt, given the obvious weakness of the Russian economy and military. Trade with China alone won't make Russia strong enough to hold a country a third their size (in population) against overwhelming popular resentment and international disapprobation, let alone move on to take over the Baltics and Finland—even Georgia and Moldava. (Transnistria, okay, maybe.)

[quote] I asked our son, who was home recently on military leave, how he thought this was going to go, . . .

Next time, have Gomer check with Sargent Carter before he starts sharing his amazing insights.

A Russian "Special Flight Squadron" plane is on its way to DC right now. It’s a large passenger jet. The route shown here is not the actual path, it actually diverted north of Scandinavia, south of Iceland, and is currently south of Labrador, which you can see at the link. A lot of twitter speculation going on as to what it is — google the hashtag #rsd88.

It's going to drag out for months, maybe years in parts. They're doing what they did in Syria.

I think that plane might have been sent to pick up Russia's expelled UN diplomats, which have been accused of espionage and ordered to leave the country by March 7.

Every time one states NATO should step in now, some person ^^^^r483. argues that we should exercise restraint and some bit of decorum. There’s a pattern here. Exactly what/why/how do you feel such personal investment to hold back? Explain your personal stake in such restraint.

I also notice that when matters heat up on this thread that the ‘Recommendation for Horror Movies’ thread gets bumped and lit off to high heaven. Now, I do understand that DLs are eager to take their minds off on lighter fare…but it’s suspicious that that thread has enjoyed such a mysterious longevity.

Things that make you go Hmmm…..

R489, I think you're in war mode, which understandably comes with some paranoia.

Not to mention that you're on the Datalounge, which understandably comes with some paranoia.

R488, my post didn't have directly to do with whether NATO should or shouldn't step in. I was saying that given the current situation, it would probably take Russia more than "a few years" to establish control over Ukraine and regain enough military and economic power to start thinking about invading and annexing further countries.

^^^Weak comeback.

What's your point?

Thus, NATO should not intervene since it will take some years yadda yadda.

Same ole song.

I’m guessing this is your personal reason as to why NATO should go take a nappy.

This guy is on the ground. We need a DLer over there to get the real info.

If NATO attacks a Russian plane, etc., that's war. NATO has nukes, as does Russia. To the entire global geopolitical establishment two nuclear powers going to war is inconceivable.

We're stuck.

^^^Clutches pearls. Then faints. Waiting now for smelling salts. Are you Miss Lindz? We’d be honored by your presence after all.

That CBC radio interview had some content that makes me think there is hope Putin will - at some point and likely not soon - be toppled from within.

I believe, sadly, Ukraine will be taken. There isn't time for otherwise. I believe the West will do nothing to provoke a nuclear attack - including the no fly zone - because the first duty of government is to protect its own nation. It's a pretty blunt definition when nuclear risk is involved. I believe if Putin fires the first nuclear shot outside of Ukraine we are all likely goners and so is the planet.

I accept there is a contingent on the board who will never accept that NATO isn't an army, it is an alliance and it's purpose and governance do not accommodate discretionary intervention in situations like Ukraine, which is not a NATO member.

I think China is, above all, a pragmatist. Russia and it's economy cannot alone achieve the economic goals of the Chinese. China needs the whole world to sell its plastic.

I'd bet the strategy is to accept the loss of Ukraine in the short term and bring Russia to its knees through internal dissent, chiefly through sanctions.

Here's the CBC content gave me some hope for the longer term:

"Cornered? Yes. But suicidal? No, I don't think so. I mean, those guys — I mean, the top of the clique, including, of course, Putin himself — they are life lovers. They like good wines. They like good cognac. They like good … entertainment and all that. And they have families, also. Some of them have families in the United States. Probably some have [families] even in Canada. And most of them, of course, have [families] in London or in Europe."

"Even dictators, even the tyrants, they don't live on the moon. They live right there in the country, and they are surrounded by people, and people have to respond to their orders. And that very much depends [on] how they would respond. I mean, do they make every effort to fulfil? Or [do] they start to sabotage, or they start to hesitate or they start to revolt? I mean, all that is in the cards very much."

"And that's the story of all tyrants. Even [Joseph] Stalin supposedly was poisoned. There is a strong belief amongst many historians that he did not just die himself, but he was poisoned."

"[The Russian] economy is in very bad shape even before the sanctions. So yes, it all matters. It all matters. And that's why [we need] sanctions against so-called oligarchs — but more even against the government officials, because the government officials are also oligarchs, but they make money out of their official positions serving the regime."

"But they are, many of them, very rich people, powerful people. They have their own positions. And they want to take money from the regime in Russia, but to spend it in, say, Canada and America and in the United States [and] Europe. And that's where you hit them."

I truly believe (for what it’s worth), that the West’s response of sending arms, intelligence, and humanitarian aid is the best strategy at the moment because: 1) the Ukrainians will be able to continue to inflict huge casualties on the Russians and hold off an occupation; and, 2) this will show Russia and the rest of the world that, when properly notified, prepared, and supported, a country CAN “go it alone” militarily to defend itself against invaders.

The argument for stepping in (besides stopping the atrocities) has less to do with Russia, which is being destroyed, and more to do with Xi and Taiwan. There is no easy or obviously right answer. (Unless you are Russian, in which case the right answer is to do everything in your power to remove Putin.)

Good for Norway! People forget they have a border with, albeit a small one.

What's everyone donating and to whom?

Lots of instant canned responses. That was fast to come up with in such a short time. I do believe China is a pragmatist. But then why did they put so much stake in Putin? A madman that has self-immolated?

People don't understand how Putin has spent the last 20 years by any means at his disposal ruthlessly shoring up his power including murdering numerous people in and outside Russia. He has total control over the generals. They can't stop him unless they kill him and that is a very, very hard thing to do with his protection. No one is getting close to him with a weapon. Someone or some people will have to be willing to conspire and sacrifice their life. With all of the opposition faced by Hitler within his own ranks they didn't successfully assassinate him.

Isn't there some International Assassination Bureau we can turn to?

Maybe they didn't think he would go mad, R504? Maybe in fact it is all a smokescreen? Who thought America would go so fucking crazy it elected Trump? Shit happens, things change, what was isn't.

^^^Haha. Do you watch a lot of movies perchance?

R506. I believe little Puttie had something to do with OrangeAss’s victory. (Burp….it’s the wine, escusé).

Putin now saying that the Western sanctions are akin to a declaration of war against Russia.

Per Kyiv Independent, Russia is not honoring the cease fire.

R485, if that plane is a Trojan Horse, then I may be kinda sorta safe - it lands at Dulles which is about 20 miles out of DC. Depends on the size of the bomb.

I may close my windows and blinds come arrival time. There's a lovely breeze in DC today.

He’s lost all his marbles fer sure! Farting in Putin’s general direction is a declaration of war folks!

^^^ Wait I just had an awful thought. Will the plane be escorted by fighters once it hits US airspace? Otherwise, what would stop it from NOT landing and attacking DC? I have a view of landing panes from my windows. Yikes!!!

I do not trust Putin one fucking second. Not one.

Curious thought, if the US and Russia swap nukes and turn each other into glass and the Stone Age, would that have any impact on Africa and So America to go on as usual? Far enough away and both are rather primitive in a sense. Would it be disastrous to their ongoing humanity?

[quote]He said any attempt by another power to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine would be considered by Russia to be a step into the military conflict. NATO has rejected Kyiv's request for a no-fly zone, on the grounds it would escalate the war beyond Ukraine.

THIS is why NATO isn't rushing in with troops, foreign troll who likes to type ^^^^ all the time.

Don't worry your pretty little head, r514, those primitive African types won't be bothered one bit by a li'l ol' nuclear holocaust.

Tuck tail, cover balls and retreat. No problemo.

Hey, fuck off, R515. Are you dissing my ^^^?

That has got to be some type of ^^^ Grammar Paraphilia

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, I think you're building some sort of ad hominem into your posts, R488. The posters who "argue that we should exercise restraint and some bit of decorum," i.e. treat intervention as a very last resort, give detailed reasons—it's not about their "personal investment" or "personal stake," as you impute.

Furthermore, some of the posters here who are most avidly for NATO intervention are obvious provocateurs who have been called out for their pro-Russian premises.

NATO seems like a nice place to work.

R509. I thought he might say something like this. Anything but exactly what he wants, the complete capitulation of Ukraine and the West's tacit approval, is now a "declaration of war". Any pushback to his insane, fascist expansionism is now a threat.

He's ridiculous and NATO is looking weak by indulging into his bluster. I'm not saying NATO should intervene but publicly stating that they won't do anything for fear of being drawn into the conflict is starting to make them look ineffective.

R521, your two paragraphs are incompatible. Yes, Putin's response makes him look ridiculous, but that's a reason to keep letting him sink into his own quagmire. It's horrible for Ukraine, but it doesn't make NATO "look weak" or "ineffective" to make their conditions clear.

Aeroflot has announced cancellation of all international flights after 3/8, likely because owners of leased aircraft want their planes back (half of Russia’s ~1000 airliners are leased from Western countries), and because the Sabre reservation system has cut them off. On the bright side, Russians can still vacation in Belarus.

[quote] NATO seems like a nice place to work.

And that diversity with smiling faces has Putin shaking in his boots. SMDH.

They need to pull that commercial immediately and replace it with foaming at the mouth rabid Viking-like warriors.

Keep that diversity shit indoors.

No one's going to convince anyone else here about whether NATO should/shouldn't do X, Y, and/or Z.

If you want to see whatever it is you want to see happen or not happen, contact your representative, senators, and the administration. Include your arguments and any sources (e.g., opinion pieces).

No shit! I’m not a “provocateur”. That rests only in your combobulated mind. I’m so sad that you feel personally attacked. I feel sorry for your plight. Let us all sing Kumbaya. I’m sure that would melt away Putin’s bad ways.

As Rodney King stated: “Can’t we all get along?”.

Violins.

There is very little that would be effective against Putin's tactic here, which is to do what he wants and threaten war and/or nuclear attacks every couple of days.

Because NATO is what's really riling Putin up, they are at a singular disadvantage if they do anything. It isn't weakness to not provoke someone to use nuclear weapons, especially since we've seen him flatten entire villages and bomb schools and hospitals, and have no concern for his own troops or citizens.

I don't know what the goal of all the "NATO isn't doing anything" posters is, but I agree with others who say that there has been a link between pro-Russian and pro-Putin sentiment and anti-NATO sentiment on these threads.

I think Putin is the one who is coming off as weak. Though crazy. That’s the difference. NATO knows he will start flinging nuclear missiles if he feels like he’s really backed into corner.

You have to be tactical. You don’t fight crazy with crazy.

The “NATO is weak” posters are total trolls.

R526, your use of "combobulated" for "discombobulated," weird misuse of the phrase "No shit!" and inept Rodney King reference, along with your being sad I'm "feeling personally attacked" while continuing with the sarcastic ad hominems, persuades me that you're a troll. R527 and R528 are correct.

I don't see it that way R522. His response weakens his position and makes his threats seem like bluster. NATO failing to take advantage of that makes them seem reactive.

I do agree R527 and R528 that there are some people with disingenuous motives arguing for NATO's intervention. But their clear stance, whilst helpful for avoiding nuclear war, is also essentially allowing Putin to set the terms of the battle on where and when things escalate.

I think that Guardian op-ed is essentially arguing for brinkmanship. Perhaps it has fallen out of favor as a policy since the 80s but it is not an invalid one.

R509 they photoshopped Pootie's face so it's not so prednisoney

The best thing for us to do with Putin is appeasement.

Don’t provoke him further. Just stand back and in some time things will cool off. In the long run, the rest of us will be safe after all. Just look at movies, eat popcorn. Don’t look at bad images. Tell yourself that Good always prevails. Don’t watch any upsetting news. Watch the Disney Channel. Keep your mind and children happy.

Thank you, Neville. ^^^

Check this out for updates. Best viewed in desktop mode.

No. I’m just sick of your belief that placating and appeasing Putin is your best offense. Sometimes I get so pissed off, but I accept my loss of diction in my fury with you tuck-tails. Kumbaya!

No thx R532 I want all available information. Just enjoyed watching a Russian helicopter shot down in flames.

[quote]Tell yourself that Good always prevails. Don’t watch any upsetting news. Watch the Disney Channel. Keep your mind and children happy.

Oh shit, good manners.

R536, link please. Share the entertainment.

It’s like watching Top Gun almost.

Have some popcorn with that r536. Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya.

Well exc-u-u-use me, r537.

R532 is joking. No one calls something like that "appeasement" if they're sincerely arguing for it.

That is, they'll call it something more acceptable, like adapting and self-care.

Putin went on TV today to explain the Ukraine invasion to a bunch of trainee flight attendants. And no social distancing.

[quote]No one calls something like that "appeasement"

Of course not.

I meant that comment for Putin’s apologist r529.

If you look closely...

[quote]Putin went on TV today to explain the Ukraine invasion to a bunch of trainee flight attendants.

The best part was when he sashayed up and down in heels cooing, “Coffee? Tea? Cyanide capsule?”

R547. I didn't really notice his hand passing through the microphone but the start of that video, with the camera facing him head on, does make it look like he's been cut and pasted into the shot. Or has a Zoom background on or something.

What's the point though? I don't get it. Why would he be CGI'd into this clip?

Putin said the sanctions are equal to a declaration of war.

HaHa r545. Thanks for the levity. There’s some asshole upthread who thinks NATO should not provoke Putin and the West should just present hole. I’m trying to take this insatiable bottom to task. That’s NOT how to deal with the likes of Putin.

Putie Tang say these already the wars

[quote]some of the posters here who are most avidly for NATO intervention are obvious provocateurs who have been called out for their pro-Russian premises.

Considering that Putin would like nothing more than to ratchet up conflict with NATO, you do have to wonder.

Tom Nichols:

"We have to help Ukraine. But let's not let him turn this into the war he wants. A war with NATO is the only thing - the very last thing - that can save his regime from eventual collapse."

B-b-but I’m not farting in Putin’s general direction! Sanctions, Smantions. No fair, man.

How would a war with NATO save his regime R553? I don't really understand that bit. Is it based on the premise that it would unite Russia behind him?

I mean, it may well do, but him losing a war with NATO seems like it would end his regime as well.

It started yesterday, R553, and various posters started calling it out. This morning's poster with the sarcasm and overuse of DL catchphrases is just the latest. Obviously the new Poot propaganda line is "NATO looks weak" and "non-intervention helps Poot."

[quote]Is it based on the premise that it would unite Russia behind him?

Yes. Nichols again:

"Indeed, one more reason not to let our emotions get the better of us is that the only way Putin can save himself from his own fiasco is to bait the West into an attack. Nothing would help him more, at home or abroad, than if the United States or any other NATO country were to enter direct hostilities with Russian forces. Putin would then use the conflict to rally his people and threaten conventional and nuclear attacks against NATO. He would become a hero at home, and Ukraine would be forgotten."

R557. I could see that. Terrible that the Russian people would be so easily manipulated though.

R553 He'd be proud of ya.

[quote] Nothing would help him more, at home or abroad, than if the United States or any other NATO country were to enter direct hostilities with Russian forces. Putin would then use the conflict to rally his people and threaten conventional and nuclear attacks against NATO.

If he wants an actual war with NATO he can have one by claiming that some false flag operation was NATO's doing and use his country's propaganda machinery to rally his people up. He eliminated any outside media interference by now. He controls the narrative in his own country.

He knows he doesn't have the (man) power to start a war against NATO without using nuclear weapons. He wants Ukraine, and he wants it without NATO cockblocking him.

The best thing would be to - secretly - back up Ukraine with so much defensive military power that Russia is outgunned. If he uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine he's fucked, because that would lose him massive support in his own country. All he can do is distract them with NATO as some boogeyman.

Agree, R557.

Just a reminder that the sun has now set on the tenth day of fighting in Ukraine and the Russians are still in the process of "encircling" the major cities. Let them wear themselves out in this debacle, and let posters like R559 keep baiting us pointlessly.

That's #2 vid manipulation, Pootie trying to evoke a coziness with some living human beings. As well as the hand passing through the mic, the background is jacked up. A solid D- grade.

I do think that's a very valid point R560. As his domestic situation continues to deteriorate I wouldn't be surprised if Putin does stage such an operation.

That's essentially what we're already doing, r560. This is going according to plan for Putin. It sucks for Ukrainians that are caught in this hell, but the likelihood that he's going to March into Poland or Estonia after he's done have dropped to nearly zero. The Russian army cannot handle a relatively poor and weak country like Ukraine. How the fuck could they hope to take on NATO?

Putin's bluster is serving its purpose: disseminate confusion and terror in the West so we harass our politicians to drop sanctions sanctions lest we sleep walk into nuclear war. Frankly, I wouldn't listen to a word that comes out of his mouth.

I meant to say that this is *not* going to Putin's plans.

This whole incident has demonstrated that all Russia has going forward is nuclear weapons. That's it.

I don't think he was edited into the clip, I think they had real people there but they pasted in a background and what we're seeing is an old-fashioned green screen error, where sometimes things on the screen would briefly become see-thru. There's a fuzzy line around both him and at least two of the women there, not just him.

We absolutely cannot drop the sanctions. Anybody who suggests otherwise is either an idiot or a troll.

R566. I thought it might be a background too. It looks like when someone's on Zoom. So strange.

Sign of his incredible paranoia?

[quote]This whole incident has demonstrated that all Russia has going forward is nuclear weapons. That's it.

It can suffice.

Why doesn't the tea in the teapot move when he hits the table? That's weird, too.

R532 Dry up and blow away, Pollyanna.

He's not hitting the table hard R569. I think the desk, mic and teapot are real. The background is very questionable though.

R569 - Because he’s not actually hitting the table when he gesticulates with his left hand.

Great Leader has iron fist against fascist Ukrainian warmongers, gentle fist against Russian table and teapot!

Weak tea

I don't speak Russian, so I don't know for sure, but is he saying "Let's have kiki" to these future stewardesses?

They may need those ladies as pilots soon.

Lviv Cat Cafe. They're staying. Half of donations goes to the military.

Jackson Galaxy talks about the Lviv Cat Cafe.

CNN covers the Lviv Cat Cafe.

Rescuing animals left being. PETA Germany, Viva! Poland and White Paw could use your support.

From PETA UK.

Why is he sitting so close to these flight attendants when he made Macron and the security advisers sit at the other end of the fucking table?

I think we've found Vlad's soft spot, bitches! (emphasis on soft)

How you can help animals left behind, and those brought to safety by their loving guardians.

Part III for us to carry on is below.

Get

Get

Off

Your

Fucking

Ass

,

Russia

,

And

Just

Assassinate

Putin

.

The End!

Bajour, Bajour...