Russian troops shelling nuclear power station

Everyone panic! EVERYONE PANIC!!!!

Why aren't you panicking?

“There is a real threat of nuclear danger in the biggest atomic energy station in Europe.”

holy

fucking

shit

What is it going to take for NATO to get involved? The irradiation of the entire continent?

I think there are about a dozen nuclear stations around Ukraine as well. If Russian forces are careless we could all be in trouble.

[quote] If Russian forces are careless we could all be in trouble.

I think we're beyond that.

This is a "hail mary" full-scale assault.

At this point, Putin knows he is losing, so he's trying to do as much damage as possible.

R5. You're probably right in which case Putin better have a lot of food, water and porn in that bunker of his. The fallout from this will be horrific.

Oopsie

I'm hoping some of Puta's coconspirators will get fed up with his crazy antics and kill him

Putin needs to be executed immediately.

CNN says the power plant is on fire.

Eastern Europe is going to be flooded with radiation.

Good luck!

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Will it just be Eastern Europe R12? Can't the winds disperse it elsewhere too?

Depending on how damaged the plant is of course.

This is just fucking crazy.

Even for Putin.

What’s shelling?

There’s livestream on YouTube. I can’t even bring myself to watch.

It's going to be Chernobyl all over again except without people to actually clean up the mess (since they're all getting shot).

This obviously seems like it’s a very dangerous situation…but what would it take to get the place to have a nuclear meltdown? Surely there are safeguards in place to prevent that, no?

I imagine there is a video call going on right now between Biden, Macron, Johnson, Scholz, the Head of NATO, and others.

You can't just cut the fucking wires? Why would you bomb a nuclear power plant? It's completely insane.

They keep this shit up it IS a threat to every country in the area including NATO members.

What the actual fuck.

Are Eastern European nuclear plants safer than their 1986 counterparts?

Guess we're all about to find out.

Jayzus.

Would this be worse than Chernobyl?

Hold me David, I'm scared

Babylon is on fire. The Europeans have been killing each other for centuries.

I'm no expert but from watching the excellent Chernobyl show I believe they usually have a failsafe they can press to shut down the core. Question is whether the artillery did enough damage to the core to destabilise it before that happened (or damaged the mechanism that would shut it down). Or maybe the bombardment could trigger a reaction on its own.

Chernobyl's safeguard was also made on the cheap which was a contributing factor to its meltdown.

It's time for Melania Trump to go home and help fight to save her part of the world.

These fucking Russians want to end life on earth apparently.

What happened to the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction?

Babylon was in the Middle East R26.

Was that the plan all along? Is Putin really terminally ill, has gone completely insane in the face of death, and wants to go out with a BANG, taking the rest of the world (or at least of Europe) down with him?

We may see Putin displaced by morning

But if this thing blows, won't the 30-40% of Russia's army that are in Ukraine get blown up with it?

What's in it for Putin if a nuclear disaster happens? It would affect Russia as well, wouldn't it?

Well, now no one's gonna want their IVF babies.

Putin needs to be eliminated immediately by whatever means necessary. Tonight.

2022 gallows humor.

Probably R36. The fallout might affect the whole continent and possibly beyond. That's what they were afraid of with Chernobyl and this thing is supposedly 10x as big.

OK - back to MSNBC and CNN tonight!

Maybe Xi will nuke Putin. I mean, this has got to be insane even for him.

If that this blows up and Putin isn't taken out IMMEDIATELY by his OWN people, there will be no way around World War III.

The skies will be so blue tomorrow ...

So glad I'm here in the United States. This nonsense is over there in Europe and there's a great big Atlantic Ocean separating us from the Europeans. This is their fucking war and its their fucking problem.

I'm about to order me two large pizzas, have some Coca-Cola and watch TCM. I've had enough of this invasion news. It's depressing now.

Live radiation map at link. No sensors in Ukraine but many in the rest of Europe.

They need to put a fucking bullet in Putins head.

I'm so sick of his Shit!

I read this article earlier today, and I was wondering what this was all about.

In my head, I was wondering what could make Macron so nervous, after his phone call with Putin.

Maybe this is it.

[quote] France's Macron thinks 'the worst is yet to come' in Ukraine after talking with Putin, reports say

French President Emmanuel Macron thinks "the worst is yet to come" in Ukraine after talking with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, according to multiple reports.

A senior French official said Macron's warning came after the two leaders spoke for 90 minutes, which did not yield any diplomatic progress, The Washington Post reported.

The official said Putin was determined to carry out the ongoing war in Ukraine until "the end," the paper reported.

Putin also told Macron that Russia's goals in Ukraine would be "fulfilled" and that the war was going "according to plan," Reuters reported, citing a statement issued by the Kremlin.

The statement read: "It was confirmed that, first of all, we are talking about the demilitarisation and neutral status of Ukraine, so that a threat to the Russian Federation will never emanate from its territory."

Russia on Wednesday captured its first major city, Kherson, after nearly a week of failure to break Ukrainian resistance.

Western officials have warned that Russia's lack of anticipated progress in Ukraine so far may lead to Putin's decision to stage a more aggressive approach.

Both Russia and Ukraine said the second round of negotiations between the two sides is slated to take place on Thursday.

In the last few days, Russian forces have ramped up their attacks on Ukraine's capital city, Kyiv, and the second-largest city, Kharkiv, as troops reportedly fire missiles at civilian areas.

As a result, the US State Department has accused Russia of "widespread" human rights abuses in Ukraine, while top advocacy groups warn that ongoing bombings and attacks against Ukrainian citizens could be considered war crimes.

The International Criminal Court on Wednesday announced that it is launching an investigation into potential war crimes in Ukraine.

[quote] If it blows up, it will be 10 times larger than Chornobyl!

I mean, they’re obviously going to say this whether it’s true or not. I just don’t see how it wouldn’t be designed to prevent a meltdown situation caused by sabotage or attack; and I also can’t imagine so many Russian “soldiers” so willingly trying to put into meltdown knowing it would be their certain death. Hope I’m not proven wrong.

The reactors have been shut down, and from what it sounds like, the fire was in an administration building. Firefighters are now on the scene. No need to go to your bunkers.

"So glad I'm here in the United States. This nonsense is over there in Europe and there's a great big Atlantic Ocean separating us from the Europeans. This is their fucking war and its their fucking problem."

Oh you poor dumb thing. You clearly have no clue that this is becoming the whole world's problem.

And you think you're safe here in the ol US of A?

Enjoy the pizza, fatty.

R50. Soldiers aren't nuclear scientists. Maybe they were just told it was shut down and they could attack freely.

That said, R51 and R52 are quite comforting. But even if it doesn't happen this time it proves it could easily happen the next.

Probably gives countries in Europe a good reason to intervene and really, really start to help Ukraine. Now this is a direct threat to them

Maybe it’s time to send in troops from every country. Enough is enough.

Assuming we're all still here tomorrow, I can't imagine that world opinion will tolerate Russia remaining a nuclear power. Denuclearization will probably be a condition of the lifting of sanctions. And given that the Russian economy is now officially in the shitter, they'll probably be happy to trade away their nukes anyway.

Send in the drones.

And Kim Kardashian took her ass over there to Italy for fashion week. She better get her ass back here to the states, she has 4 fucking children she needs to be here for. She's going to mess around and get scoop up in Putins war. What a stupid Bitch.

All for fashion and vanity.

Exactly R53. Same dumb shit people said about a mystery virus in Wuhan, China back in late 2019...That is over in Asia. We are safe and far away.

I agree R57, Russian denuclearization needs to be the first thing on the agenda. Frankly it should be happening the world over but even I'm not stupid enough to believe that would happen.

R46 here. I was wrong, there ARE some geiger counter sensors in Ukraine (not a lot, but a few). Tons of sensors in the rest of Europe.

R53 Fiona Hill looks a lot like Patti Lupone. So we better take what she says seriously.

I'm in Central Europe and scared to take a look at R62. Think I'll rather head over to insta and see what Britney posted today.

It seems like Putin is trying to goad NATO into reacting so that he can have his WW3, with the belief that China and his other allies will get involved. He's throwing his shit army out there, bombing civs, attacking nuclear plants, doing everything he can to instigate a response.

FWIW

Radiation levels rising ...

Time for NATO forces to join in, bomb the shit out of Moscow.

Thanks R62. Now that the page has finally loaded it looks like there's like 3 in Ukraine but I don't think any of them are near the site.

Everyone needs to calm down. Ukraine sends her love.

How do you read the radiation map? I see some red markers among the mostly green, but they're not all near Ukraine.

Ukraine may let it blow. Think about that. Cynical I know but still.

"Assuming we're all still here tomorrow, I can't imagine that world opinion will tolerate Russia remaining a nuclear power. Denuclearization will probably be a condition of the lifting of sanctions. And given that the Russian economy is now officially in the shitter, they'll probably be happy to trade away their nukes anyway."

Thank you for that keen, reality-based analysis, R57. No doubt, such negotiations are under way at this very moment.

R71 an isolated red marker is probably just a false reading especially if all the others in the area are green. I got into this type of monitoring in 2011 during the Fukushima disaster but am certainly not an expert.

Thanks, R74.

2022 Gallows Humor,

Here about the Putin condom? It's X-tra. X-tra small and super tight for men who don't know when to pull out.

Call these Russians what they are: terrorists engaging in suicide bombing.

Sanction the terrorists. Yes! Sanction the hell out of them.

OT: why is Russian decor so hideous? The pictures of the rooms inside Putin's fortress, the Kremlin I presume, show really ugly furnishings.

It's "Dictator Chic," R79! All the autocrats have the same exquisite taste!

At this point, why don't they just bomb the fuck out of the kremlin and just destroy the nerve center of the entire operation and be done with it? Seriously, just go ahead wipe these people out completely.

Has it been confirmed that Russians are actually shelling the reactor itself, as opposed to something that's PART of the plant, but not literally adjacent to the reactor? Like, say, the steam turbines, or the transformer yard, or something like that? Most nuclear power plants are fairly HUGE, but the actual reactor core and fuel storage area is a pretty small part of it.

Adding perspective... as bad as Chernobyl was, one or two of its reactors actually remained in service for almost 20 years after the meltdown. They were far enough away that once they were scrubbed down, the ambient radiation from the melted-down core was reasonably safe for workers to run the plant in those specific areas.

This is why I love DT. The humor.

Great, now I'm gonna have to rock the post nuke look. Limping around with chemical burns and still wearing my n95.

If it explodes it would be 10x Chernobyl.

R82 Plenty of photos of the complex on the web, with the six reactor buildings all lined up in a close row.

Some reports say the fire is in a building housing a reactor which was under repair but which does contain fuel.

New post-nuke Covid-19 variant: Glovid-22.

Seize Putin's shit. Take his yachts. Hit em in the pockets with sanctions.

Keep up, doomscrollers. The fire is in an administrative building and firefighters are on site now.

It's truly shocking that no one has thought of that before, R88!!

Pipe-dream: denuclearize Russia. Carve her up into different spheres of influence. Even Xi would probably be amenable to that.

So now the mask will become a hazmat suit. Where will I store my coupons.

Start drone firing on the yachts right this second

HOLD ME DAVID

Russia would never give up its nuclear power..

No shit that someone has thought of sanctions. Since it seems to help, there should be more of it, dumb ass.

Matthew Chance just said on CNN the building on fire is a training building, not a critical part of the infrastructure.

There are three more nuclear power plants in Ukraine. Not as large but that's no consolation.

R89 "Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant in the city of Enerhodar and had set fire to one of the facility's six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said." From CBS News.

Of all things, why would they target reactors? Is is just to terrorize? Don't they care about their own people?

Agree r100

Everything Trump touches turns to ruin, including Putin. This will ruin him

Suicide bombing, R100, on a global scale.

Putin has no regard for human life. In my fantastical imagination, I envision an UFO shooting a gigantic laser beam that could penetrate his bunker and either freeze or fry him to death.

The radiation levels are NOT going up.

Per the IAEA.

Fucking christ.

R103 that would be lovely

R103: somebody needs to get the Jewish Space Laser people on the phone stat.

Can’t we send the Kingsmen in to assassinate Putin?

I have a mad crush on Colin Firth

R106, Zelinskyy is Jewish, so he should have direct control of the Jewish Space Laser.

I don't care if it's the Facts of fucking Life girls, as long as this asshole can['t do anything but decompose.

We have armies with very heavy weapons fighting around the biggest nuclear generating complex in Europe and an utter fool is here posting that our concerns are overwrought.

Yum Zelinskyy and Colin Firth.

Some Russian billionaire offered a bounty of $1M to arrest Putin. Perhaps the Oligarchs should all contribute to a pool of more like $1billion to anyone who deliver Putin's head. Offer expires at midnight tomorrow. Bullet to the head, poison, bomb blast, whatever gets the job done. He MUST be eradicated from the face of the Earth immediately.

You think this looks crazy wait till you see the drunken victory celebrations the Ruskis are planning.

It is now being reported as a fire NEAR the power plant and that the power plant itself is secure and there is no radiation leak.

Fire is reportedly in a training building outside the nuclear plant.

Agree with Miss Lindz here.

Wow the world has gone mad......DL agrees with Miss Lindsey

[bold]PLEASE DON' T MAKE ME AGREE WITH MISS AUNT PITTYPAT FUCKING LINDSAY GRAHAM.[/bold]

kthxbye.

US Senators are getting down in the mud now? With us?

That's a pretty wild thing for a sitting US Senator to say, though. So butch of Lindz!

She's been at her brandy.

A sitting US Senator advocating assassination of a world leader. FUCKING WOW

Well . . . at the end of the day Lady G really does kind of belong here.

[quote]Later next week, the air from Ukraine is coming straight to us

[quote]If I were a Swiss authority, I would simply inform the population, as a precaution, who has which shelter (everybody has the right to one).

Please, Madame Senatrice, Ides of March still almost two weeks away!

Oh, mah goodness! Did Ah just say that?! Viagra and Cosmopolitans! Mah stars!

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R116, well, well, well -- little miss fickle traitor finally decided to grow a pair.. of ovaries.

We have helicopters flying over our heads right now. WTF. Is it the National Guard? I live an hour south of Hanford.

The tsks tsks are starting to come in.

Although Nichols is right. Putin's propaganda minions will cite this as the West's hatred of Mother Russia and its first son, Comrade Vladimir.

On both sides you have very scared inexperienced 20-year-olds handling very dangerous weapons around a nuclear complex. No matter the orders from Kiev or Moscow, on the ground mistakes will happen.

Mayor says firefighters can't reach blaze at power plant ... here we go.

The fire's in an admin. building.

Putin calling for Graham's assassination with "Mother of All Bitch Slaps".

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Little Miss better hope the kompromat talk is just DL having a go because if it isn't, there'll be interesting reading sometime in the next few days.

Zelenskyy says Russian troops are bombing Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, the largest one in Europe. He says it will be catastrophic if it blows up as it is 6 times larger than Chernobyl:

This certainly dwarfs Japan, dumping their nuclear waste into the ocean.

Live feed proves this.

Putin has ordered the Russian (his) military to bomb a nuclear power station in Ukraine. This would be 6 times more catastrophic than Chernobyl.

Putin has certainly crossed the Rublecon now.

Will this qualify as a crime against humanity? What can the response involve?

R138 Except the Pacific is huge and there's some dissipation. The Black Sea's comparatively small.

There is an ACTIVE FIRE at this nuclear power plant. This is GRIM.

Those pizzas someone mentioned upthread are starting to sound like a great idea.

[quote] We may see Putin displaced by morning

What dopey MSNBC talking head told you this?

They were planning to turn the electricity off days ago. None of this is new. The reactor is in cement. Next.

As NYT reports, the reactors are not the only concern.

"An additional danger at the Zaporizhzhia site is the many acres of open pools of water behind the complex where spent fuel rods have been cooled for years. Experts fear that errant shells or missiles that hit such sites could set off radiological disasters."

Everyone is calling Putin, or their Russian Counterparts now. Putin is Psycho Fame Whore.

At a Nuclear reactor site, there is radioactive material there. It is not just in the core.

The videos seems to show cluster bombs being used at the plant.

R150 (It's a stain on America that we have never joined the international ban on cluster bombs.)

I cringe at the fact that I'm sharing Marco Rubio's concerns. But here we are.

R151, true but I don't think Putin is following the rules about weapon bans and international law at this point

This is what Macron meant when he said, ominously “it will get worse before it gets better”. Basically Putin is holding Europe hostage to a nuclear disaster - it is officially WWIII. Oh well, nice we had 1 week between Covid and the end of the world.

Extra fun fact: Moscow is in downwind of that plant if radioactivity is released.

Rubio is not writing that tweet. He is too busy to work for us, or do anything to stop Putin.

Experts have already said that this won’t be another Chernobyl. It’s a different type of reactor. Not good but not a Marvel movie-sized disaster.

Putin is bombing a nuclear reactor in Ukraine, a sovereign nation in Europe. This is WW3.

The Russians already retreated from the nuclear plant. The reactors themselves were never on fire. It was an out-building that was on fire. The plant is currently secure. Calm down.

@TheUSASingers has some thoughts on Lindsey Graham!

They're not wrong.

Putin has stop bombing this reactor. Every world leader is pissed and is calling him.

This is the first time in human history that a military has attacked a nuclear power plant.

Congress needs to issue a sternly worded letter immediately.

Susan Collin is no doubt very concerned.

It should be noted that:

Putin might resume bombing this plant. Remember, every world leader is calling him and calling for an emergency security council meeting with putin. No military in human history has ever fired on a Nuclear Reactor.

Lindsay has seen the intelligence. He knows what is coming and why it must be stopped.

R155 Really? Moscow is well NNE of that plant.

This is World War 3. It is a war between European Countries. Putin is firing at a Nuclear Reactor. This is just unbelievable and soul crushing.

Ugh at half the posts in this thread trying to make this about America and American politics.

The reactors themselves were not at risk. It was the spent fuel in storage which was a concern. Note the past tense. Via AFP:

[quote]Ukrainian authorities say safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is now secured, after a fire broke out when the station came under fire from invading Russian forces. "The director of the plant said that the nuclear safety is now guaranteed": Oleksandr Starukh

R157 R159 Strange that unlike everyone else here you never source your "calm down" assurances.

He's trying to get NATO involved to save his ass from his failed war. Nothing much to be done unless China can push Putin into stopping, but I doubt they care. NATO will attack if the plant goes Chernobyl because at that point it will be an attack on all of Europe.

R168 that was two hours ago, AFP reported this an hour later, it appears the fire is ongoing/another has started and they are still attacking the plant.

My brother had a warped, perfect sense of humor. He disliked his roommate so he made and wore a button that read, "NUKE SHARIE".

R171 You're just a pathetic little shit-stirrer, desperately trying to create drama. From 14 minutes ago from the same thread you linked to:

[quote]UPDATE Ukraine's emergency services say they have gained access to a nuclear power plant where a fire erupted after shelling by the Russian military. "As of 05:20 at the Zaporizhzhia NPP in Energodar, State Emergency Service units went to put out the fire"

Let me guess, you just stopped reading when you saw what you wanted to see.

Some insight into Putin and the Russian mentality in a discussion with a historian. The 2 guys interviewing him are comedians who quit their day jobs to comede. The guy in glasses in a former HS teacher with a Venezuelan mother who hates what they did to Venezuela and the other guy is a Russian Jew who moved to UK at 12 with his family. I think he studied economics. The Russian has always warned people about Putin on his show - tho he usually is funny about it. He has lots of relatives in Ukraine on both sides of this issue and his wife is Ukrainian. He bursts a number of Russian propaganda points.

The Russian guy and the historian shed some insight into the relationship between Putin and the oligarchs I had not heard before.

I watched some of it while making dinner and just finished it. Interesting. Conversation starts at 16 mins in - they have to do some kind of long intro for some technical reason on live streams.

[quote][R157] [R159] Strange that unlike everyone else here you never source your "calm down" assurances.

I'm R159 but not R157. My source was CNBC, where this was posted in their Ukraine Live Updates section:

Ukrainian officials say situation at nuclear power plant is secure

The State Emergency Service of Ukraine said Friday that following an attack by Russian forces on Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, the facility is currently secure.

The emergency service said that there was a fire behind the nuclear power plant in an area that is used for training. The service said that initially, firefighters were unable to extinguish the fire due to the ongoing armed conflict.

The director of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant said in a statement posted Friday on Facebook that at the moment the plant is secure.

Here is a link for your convenience. I hope I have now satisfied your passive aggressive request.

R172 I'm new to this thread so your nasty post is clearly uncalled for. I suggest sticking a metal rod directly up your anus, and if that doesn't fix whatever your mental condition is, you can always go enlist in Ukraine where I'm sure your condescension will be about as much use to you as the rest of your brain.

[quote] This is World War 3. It is a war between European Countries. Putin is firing at a Nuclear Reactor. This is just unbelievable and soul crushing.

But not unsurprising. Watch that video Iinked at R174. This is who Putin is. He does not value life obviously.

the firing at the nuclear reactor has stopped. This is because EVERY World leader is calling Putin, or their counterparts. Putin could resume firing at the Nuclear Power Plant.

World Leaders want an Emergency Security Council meeting Now.

Even Borris Johnson is pissed. He was an "friend" of Putin. Putin funded the brexit shitstorm, which Borris was behind. Brexit drove the British Economy off a cliff.

Lindsey Graham's ill-advised tweet will be all over Russian media tomorrow. It's a gift for Putin.

F'ing Lindsey Graham if he's the catalyst that sets this whole thing off.

They other pending nuclear disaster is at Chernobyl nuclear power plant site. Putin took full control of the area around Chernobyl NPP, on Feb. 24, 2022.

The Ukrainian government warned on Friday that radiation levels near the Chernobyl nuclear power plant site have “exceeded” control levels,

The toxic poison cloud is on the other side of the planet, and would affect Russia the most. Putty is suicidal.

There are TWO pending nuclear disaster. Both are purposely caused by Putin, and not quickly resolved because of Putin.

AND Who is this person saying calm down? We are writing FACTS. What is actually happening.

It might all just be strategy and more saber rattling, a way to say to everyone else don't mess with us, we could seriously mess with you all now that we have access to all of this nuclear power and we are just crazy enough to do it . . .but he is probably bluffing (that is my optimistic view)

What is he giving his troops to do this shit? Meth and vodka?

Are they that dumb to know they will kill themselves if anything happens?

Seriously - kill this fucker now.

Oh - and are you happy NOW Republicans? How you like Putin strong guy now?

Update 9: Ukraine informs IAEA that Russian forces moving towards Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant; IAEA Director General @RafaelMGrossi calls on military forces to refrain from use of violence near plant

Seriously, I live near Hanford Nuclear Reservation and have been listening to helicopter wurling for the past two hours? WTH?

In an urgent letter to the Director General, the Ukraine regulatory authority added that Russian infantry troops were moving directly towards the site of Ukraine’s largest nuclear power plant. “The battle is going on in the town of Enerhodar and on the road to the ZNPP (Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant) site,” it said, adding that the situation was “critical”.

Russian Military still at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant.

At Chernobyl, it is pribably the army kicking up dust it is as it is moving through that is pushing radiation into the air. Not ideal, but not the end of the world.

Ukraine State Inspectorate for Nuclear Regulation confirms the site Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant is occupied by the military forces of the Russian Federation.

R183, you are an idiot.

This is what happens when you weaken your country with the bullshit that has been going on in the US and the UK. You make yourself vulnerable to those who want to weaken you more so they can do what they want in the world - Russia and China.

We have been teaching our children to hate this country, to think because it is flawed that it is not worth loving or respecting or honoring. This is the result. Why is anyone surprised? We have been wasting time on stupid things like pronouns and fantasy nonsense and taking offense at every fucking thing that hurts someone's feelings. Our leaders have been distracted by garbage issues and pandering to the weakest among us. You think Russia or China cares about this crap or would waste its time on it?

There has to be a power in the world because that is how reality works. If you don't understand this then you shouldn't be a part of the discussion. if we don't step up as a strong power then the totalitarian likes of Russia and China will. And they will take what they want. You think when that happens our way of life will not be at their mercy.

Putin clearly told us this is what we could expect. Were you not paying attention? He said, " consequences that have not been seen in world history."

R190 The children of this country or any other country are not the problem behind this spectacular nuclear clusterfuck.

Weaken the country? Ukraine could never even contemplate being able to resist Russia. The imbalance of power is too great. It should have recognized reality and learned to accommodate its big neighbor. And recognized as well that if trouble developed the West would not save its skin.

[quote] The children of this country or any other country are not the problem behind this spectacular nuclear clusterfuck.

They will be if they refuse to fight if that becomes necessary in the future. If that zeitgeist exists you can be sure our enemies will be aware that the US does not have the will to fight for its values or its survival as a power in the world. What do you think will happen then?

Whoa, R192. I see how you must idolize Neville Chamberlain. You cannot appease those who want to seize power. They always want more than you are willing to give. Always.

Ukraine did try to appease them by not fighting them over Crimea. The rest of the world just let that happen. You still don't get it. That just emboldened Russia to come back for more.

You heard his speech. Putin does not think Ukraine should exist. he got to that conclusion via seriously revised history and lies. Complete fabrication about the history of Ukraine. So according to your game plan Ukraine should just stop exiting.

R190 You're a fucking moron.

R194 Those aren't the facts at all. Russia was clear there was a non-negotiable red line: membership in NATO. Zelensky of all world leaders should have known well the Russian psyche and the Russian approach to military operations. He should have known even more the limits of his own military. And he should have recognized that his Western "friends" would disappear once the shooting started.

There's no glory leading your nation into a suicide mission.

R174, just tell us what the video is about. I don't have time to watch

If you get cancer 10 years from now, you know why...

[quote] Who is this person saying calm down? We are writing FACTS. What is actually happening.

Exactly.

There are some very mentally fragile people here on Datalounge, who freak out at these kinds of stories.

It terrifies them, so they blame the person reporting the story. They lash out, scream, yell, and call names.

They absolutely refuse to hear the truth, because they can't handle it.

I was afraid to check the news this morning.

Glad we're still here, bitches!

What did we expect them to do? stop the war because there is a nuclear plant on their way?

They took Chernobyl a week ago (the world did not end) and they have taken this plant and they will take another 13 of them in Ukraine. IAEA says that plant is safe and operating normally regardless who owns it. The plant was already in Russian hands when the shelling occurred, meaning that the fire was initiated by Ukrainian side. It took 5mins after that for Zelenskyy declare a nuclear catastrophe.

Please stop exaggerating and buying everything our media trying to sell us, using the desperate Ukrainian propaganda to justify a direct confrontation with Russia.

Still, I do hope Putin dies.

CNN: Management at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in Enerhodar is now working at gunpoint, the company that runs the station said.

Petro Kotin, the head of the state-owned nuclear power generator Energoatom, said on Telegram that Russian forces "entered the territory of the nuclear power plant, took control of the personnel and management of the nuclear power plant."

The station management works at invaders' gunpoint," he said.

Kotin said staff were "were admitted in the morning to perform their duties." He said the company does not have "a direct connection to the station" and is getting information from sources there.

Status of the reactors: Kotin said the six reactors at the plant have fuel in each of them, while pre-reactor pools are storing spent nuclear fuel, the irradiated byproduct of the reactors.

Kotin said that if the nuclear facilities were hit by shelling, it "will lead to nuclear disaster."

R170. Sadly, if it goes Chernobyl it will be far too late by then.

No Action Talk Only (NATO) really living up to its name.

[quote]No Action Talk Only (NATO) really living up to its name.

NATO is a defensive alliance. No NATO members have been attacked.

Shelling a nuclear power station isn't an attack R205?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

Ukraine isn't the only one threatened if a nuclear power station goes Chernobyl R207. We don't know how far the fallout from that could reach.

[quote]We have been teaching our children to hate this country

Errant nonsense. We teach children to question the policies enacted by our elected leaders. If anyone has a problem with that, I suggest they find a more authoritarian country to call home.

So your solution is to have a major NATO-Russia air battle over the plant? That'll improve things.

Was that what I said R210? I don't think that's what I said.

But NATO needs to get involved in some capacity. Perhaps they can try and get Russia to agree for NATO to dispatch peacekeeping forces to secure Ukraine's power plants.

Waiting for the incompetent Russian army to blow up a reactor is suicidal.

Seriously, r210. People aren't thinking this through.

Putin threatened a nuclear response at the same moment he started sending troops in. He didn't wait for anything to escalate, he just said, first thing, "get in my way and I'm using my nuclear bombs."

Yesterday we saw that Russian troops were willing to let a whole-ass nuclear power plant melt down while they were standing right inside it, as long as they got to slaughter some Ukrainian soldiers and citizens before they became irradiated piles of goo. Or maybe they're just so fucking stupid they didn't realize that the Ukrainian citizens trying to put out the fire were SAVING THEIR LIVES. Either way, the end result would have been meltdown and a nice little miniature nuclear armageddon. Just in time for spring!

You don't engage in a military exchange with that kind of leader and that kind of army. All these "we need to go in and stop him!" posts are fucking ridiculous.

[quote]Perhaps they can try and get Russia to agree for NATO to dispatch peacekeeping forces to secure Ukraine's power plants.

Putin has invaded Ukraine because he doesn't want NATO anywhere near it.

[quote] Putin has invaded Ukraine because he doesn't want NATO anywhere near it.

I suppose they could try and get Russia and Ukraine not to position forces anywhere near the power plants then - but we've all seen what a promise from Putin is worth.

R12. I think you're also not thinking this through. If Russia is willing to send a nuclear power plant into meltdown it's only a matter of time before the continent suffers the fallout. Waiting on the sidelines isn't going to help.

No one is waiting on the sidelines doing nothing, r214. Are you not reading the news?

I don't see anything on the news that is going to prevent Putin's forces shelling a nuclear plant R215.

World leaders can scream at Putin over the phone all they want but he really seems past caring at this point.

R216, you said "No Action Talk Only (NATO) really living up to its name" because they weren't doing anything to stop Putin.

Now, you're saying that Putin is past caring at this point. You've also been told Putin hates NATO.

What is it that you want "No Action Talk Only" to do, exactly?

I understand the emotional response to what we're seeing -- "We have to do something!" But I'm glad cooler heads have prevailed in the White House and across European capitals.

I said NATO wasn't doing anything to stop a nuclear plant catastrophe R217. Because I see nothing to suggest they are.

Like I said, I would like them to facilitate negotiations which either bring a halt to the violence or at least get assurances from Russia that they won't attack nuclear power plants.

And if those promises turn out worthless, like they probably are, then they need to secure those plants in whatever way they can, including sending troops if necessary.

A nuclear meltdown is a threat to everyone.

[quote]A nuclear meltdown is a threat to everyone.

So is World War III, which is what your suggestion to send in troops would lead to.

R219, why aren't you getting this? Putin has already threatened nuclear deployment if people try to stop him, he hates NATO, and has already said that NATO is escalating things so he has to make sure he has nuclear deterrents ready. Yes, it's a lie, NATO hasn't escalated anything, but he's claiming they are as an excuse to launch nuclear weaponry.

If NATO came in with troops, Putin may very well make good on his threats.

R221. NATO doesn't have to stop him or his invasion, just secure the sites. Maybe he just won't see the distinction though.

Frankly if he doesn't see the distinction than I don't see any reason he won't unleash his nukes regardless of the outcome. He won't need an excuse, he'll have gone full genocidal at that point.

I really wish I could know now how this would end...been feeling sick all week.

Putin's holding us all hostage.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg this morning:

“In the days to come are likely to be worse, with more death, more suffering, and more destruction, as the Russian armed forces bring in heavier weaponry and continue their attacks across the country.

“We are not going to move into Ukraine, either on the ground or in the airspace. We understand the desperation but also believe if we did that we’d end up in something that could end up in a full fledged war in Europe involving many more countries.”

Sadly, this is indeed the correct response to the situation.

R223 It's all very nerve wracking. The shooting at the nuke power plant was really one step beyond. Prior to this war it seemed Putin had boundaries. It doesn't seem so now.

That's very sad to hear R224. The death and destruction is one thing but I thought the nuclear power plant fiasco would provoke a stronger response.

`"The sky is so blue.".....Electric neon blue, with radiation.

There is no nuclear meltdown unless Ukrainians stage one. Stop buying into the warmongering panic. Thank you NATO for staying out of the way and not listening to Zelenskyy's hysterics.

If Putin did die...who would likely step in and would they be any less crazy? I know nothing about who is in their political sphere.

I know NATO is being cautious...but I hate knowing more people will die as a result of it. Putin gets to kill people because we're afraid of him killing more?

...how exactly can Ukraine win on their own?

It seems to be a no-win situation. Damned if you do...damned if you don't. Going in could escalate to something worse, in a terrible situation.

[quote]Putin gets to kill people because we're afraid of him killing more?

I presume that posters like this simply never grew up during the cold war, which is fair enough.

but to answer your rhetorical questions: yes, in the realpolitik of standoffs with nuclear powers some innocents will die, and it is tragic and criminal. Still,, NATO running into Moscow with guns a-blazing will immediately trigger a nuclear holocaust at this time

[quote]...how exactly can Ukraine win on their own?

they can't, and they won't. that is what is so touching and heart-breaking about seeing their resistance now, zelenskyy will likely die violently, but stands his ground nonetheless, a lot of other ukrainians seem to feel the same way which is incredibly brave

R232, they can win if they are smart. But nothing I have seen Zelenskyy do since he became president has been smart. Sometime retreat/surrender/defeat is not the end. Zelenskyy should have been able to read the room way before Putin rolled his tanks in. But he kept lying to everyone- Russians, his countrymen, Americans, EU and here we are. He thought we can come running with armies to save him. But boy was he wrong!

With a smarter and more savvy leader this may not have been completely avoided but it could have been less painful or the solution could have been delayed until Putin is dead.

I think you're wrong R233. If he'd fled like the Afghanistan president had done Ukraine would never have become a big deal. It would have been playing exactly into Putin's hands and the world would have just forgiven and forgotten until the next country was on the chopping block.

The world may be too afraid to send in direct military support but they're sending in arms, volunteers and sanctioning Russia to the hilt. In the process they're showing how vulnerable Russia and its military really is. It's huge and it's thanks to Zelenskyy.

that troll is the russian troll

I think the question is R231, how much are people willing to sacrifice because of the fear of nuclear war? Ukraine? All of Europe if there's a nuclear meltdown?

When do people say "enough is enough" and call Putin on his bluff? It's this fear of nuclear war that has people too afraid to stop the invasion and too afraid to even stop bombardments on nuclear sites. So when exactly WILL people step in? Supposedly when a NATO country is attacked but my personal confidence in that possibility is not high.

R234, I wasn't talking about his actions after the fact. It's too late now. There was plenty of opportunity to negotiate before tanks rolled in. Give Putin what he wanted. The demands were clear- No NATO, a special status to separatists regions, give them the Crimea. He should have agreed but he was doing something else instead (exactly, shoring military support to fight Russians with Americans). Here we are.

[quote]There was plenty of opportunity to negotiate before tanks rolled in. Give Putin what he wanted.

I don't think "give the tyrant everything he wants" qualifies as negotiation.

Give Putin what he wants and he'll demand more R237. They always do. It's human nature.

R238, now there is no negotiation and there is nothing to give away. He will take it all. Inch by inch while we imposing sanctions and hoping someone assassinates him. Ukrainian posturing only works if you have at least some chance of succeeding. And the only way you can defeat Putin is militarily. Now how are they are going to do it!!!!

If they blow this nuclear plant up and cause another Chernobyl, Moscow needs to be nuked in retaliation. France and the UK both have lots of nukes. But I doubt either of their leaders would have the guts.

Cameras were perfectly positioned.

If Putin is really going to use nukes R240, than a negotiation was pointless anyway. He's going to take it all and end the world if he doesn't. A genuine willingness to use nukes is the ultimate leverage - you can't pacify someone like that unless you give them the whole planet on a platter (and probably not even then).

[quote]If they blow this nuclear plant up and cause another Chernobyl, Moscow needs to be nuked in retaliation.

If they blow this nuclear plant up, it will harm Russia more than it does Europe.

R243, he is not going to use nukes if NATO stays out of it. That's what he said. Your can trust or distrust him but you need to listen to what he says and not just only listen to one side of the conflict (no matter how much we would like to take one side). He wants Ukraine. He will get Ukraine unless we are willing to really stop him. Zelenskyy will not stop him and what we are currently doing is not a deterrence. Do I feel bad for Ukrainian people? absolutely! Do I think we should enter this conflict militarily? No, I agree with NATO. If we do, nobody will win this one.

And we now have to watch this country being slowly strangled because we showered the egomaniac fool Zelenskyy with false hopes. However in the long run, Ukraine may be a goner but we can take down Russia. Not at this time though.

Yeah I don't trust anything that Putin says R245. That's not even the point though, the point is that I don't think he'll stop with Ukraine. Next it'll be any non-NATO affiliated country he wants, then any NATO affiliated country he wants, then where does it end? And he'll just keep saying he'll use nukes because it's the ultimate blackmail.

Zelenskyy is fighting for his country. I don't think it's right to try and deny someone an opportunity to fight to protect their home and the Ukrainians are clearly willing. They deserve all the help they can get because I would ask the same if America was invaded.

Nobody seems to be listening r235. There are obvious Russian trolls on this thread and everyone keeps talking to them like they're just normal everyday people.

right? they are patently transparent too

[quote] the egomaniac fool Zelenskyy

The fools and trolls have definitely stepped in. How cunning of them to time their arrival by EST! Why, I would have thought they were Brad and Debbie from Atlanta, GA.

R246, we can suspect speculate anything we want. But unless it happens it's all mute. Look, simple logic. Ukraine is not a NATO country so NATO can't enter this conflict. They can do so if Putin attacks NATO country. So there it is. However NATO can break their accord and enter it. Is it what you are saying? I don't agree with it.

Putin attacks one of the NATO allies, then yes. Let's go! But for now, it's an "internal matter", one may say.

I am also not denying anything to Zelensky. He can fight any war he wants and be a hero at the expense of millions. I am just questioning how smart his decisions are.

[quote]He can fight any war he wants and be a hero at the expense of millions

Those millions of Ukrainians are also fighting—tens of thousands of them returning from abroad to fight, and millions already in the country picking up weapons and making Molotov cocktails to throw at the Russians. They certainly don't see this invasion as an "internal matter" as you do, troll.

[quote]the point is that I don't think he'll stop with Ukraine. Next it'll be any non-NATO affiliated country he wants, then any NATO affiliated country he wants, then where does it end?

[quote]He's going to take it all and end the world if he doesn't.

Congratulations, you've suddenly discovered why nuclear armament is a bad idea.

This is like climate change and a dozen other problems we have right now, it's something we should have dealt with decades ago, but thanks mostly to the efforts of Republicans, the situation was always escalated (under Reagan) or avoided as politicians kicked the can down the road.

I know it's the last thing you want to admit, but right now, we're dealing with one of those 60s-era Cold War what-if scenarios that we never wanted to happen: a megalomaniac threatening to end the world if he doesn't get his way.

A combination of Putin's declining health, his ego, and his success with throwing elections (Trump, Brexit etc.) has lead to this moment and there is now very little we can do about it, lest we risk upsetting the crazy man enough that he'll launch a few nukes. After the nuclear power plant situation, I think everyone here can understand that the situation is delicate.

R251, yes I am troll. The war is too far away from me. Was it on my border, I may have a different view. As it stands, it's the matter between Ukraine and Russia. I do morally support Ukraine but that does not amount to the level of waging into the conflict that has nothing has to do with me.

Some of this is my fault, I admit, because once I saw that guy had come into the thread screaming "NATO has to DO SOMETHING! NATO stands for No Action Talk Only!" I should have realized he was a troll and just put him on ignore.

This is such a serious situation though that I'm having trouble accepting that we have assorted dipshits and a variety of bargain-basement assholes coming to DL to say things like the NATO bitcher said, or "Zelenskyy is an egomaniacal madman" or "let's nuke Moscow" or any number of stupid, unhelpful things meant to confuse and upset us.

You think there's a limit, right? That no one is such a shitty human being that they'd do something so petty, either out of spite or because they get paid a few pennies for it, yet here they are.

To judge from your ignorance of the indefinite article, R254, the war may not be as far from the border as you suggest. But good to hear that you "morally support Ukraine," whatever the incoherence of the rest of your post.

R247 is right.

If you read R228's post:

[quote] There is no nuclear meltdown unless Ukrainians stage one. Stop buying into the warmongering panic. Thank you NATO for staying out of the way and not listening to Zelenskyy's hysterics.

It's straight out of a 1960 Russian Cold War playbook.

I guess Boris the internet troll has a job again, now that Russia has illegally invaded Ukraine.

R253. Absolutely agree. I've said it before but it's a real shame the disarmament movement seemed to die out after the 90s. I wouldn't be surprised to see it revived again and the world needs to listen this time.

The invention of nukes has done so much more harm than good.

Is this on their iPod?

Keep NATO out of it for all the sensible reasons cited.

If they want to secure sites maybe the compromise is a UN peacekeeping force, probably led by or co-ordinated by China. That seems to me the only possible middle ground.

If NATO acts - which it cannot by its charter unless a member nation is DIRECTLY attacked - and directly doesn't have wiggle room - if NATO acts it's a red flag and all hell breaks loose.

It pains me, but is there any other choice than to make the Chinese part of any solution?

R252. Calling it "endless rounds of Risk" sounds nice but other analysts are not as certain it'll end with Ukraine.

Nihilism is a major element of the Russian psyche.

That's actually a really great idea R260. Surely China doesn't want potential fallout blowing their way and Putin seems to respect them.

And whilst I'm not fond of China the reality of the situation is that they are a global power, evidently more than Russia is now. And at least they are relatively stable.

You can't be a global power with the 11th ranked world GDP. All you can be are mercenaries and bullies.

china can go fuck itself.

they gave us covid.

russians are giving us radiation.

i say we blow both of these shit holes off the planet!

The answer to this:

[quote]What if he attacks Finland? What if he attacks Sweden? What if he attacks Mongolia? What if he attacks Congo?

is this:

[quote]People need to stop tormenting themselves with these what-ifs. He's up to his neck in Ukraine. Focus on the problem at hand instead of playing endless rounds of Risk.

He is up to his neck in Ukraine and it isn't going well. Plus the sanctions are still coming home to roost. What we should be resolving ourselves to is living with $200/barrel oil if the final step needs to be to end purchase of Russian oil and gas. I've read convincing arguments that will be the end of him. He probably will be killed by someone inside Russia. They are not all prepared to die for his delusions. Greed and survival are powerful instincts that cannot be underestimated.

The wild card in this is whether he's lost his mind or not. If he hasn't, he will only push nuclear risk to a certain point. If he has, western policy needs to push him only to a certain point. It's tricky. I know everybody wants a solution that downloads at high speed because we think everything is on demand and can be binged. This won't work that way.

[quote]Errant nonsense. We teach children to question the policies enacted by our elected leaders. If anyone has a problem with that, I suggest they find a more authoritarian country to call home.

Is it really? We're beyond questions, logic and critical thinking. We see it on this site in normal times - every differing opinion results in a baseless accusation of troll or a contemptuous dismissal because you're fat or monogamous or Canadian or British or anywhere that 'would be speaking German if it wasn't for us'. (I agree it is very likely there are trolls on this site now.)

We live in an era you just will away any view that doesn't correspond with your own and attack and demolish the person who holds it. That's not questioning, it's irrational. And that's where far too many people and one major political party have got to.

anyone put Putin in the death pool...this is the end of him...not gonna live for more than 2 years

That is two years too long.

Believe whatever you want R266. Your optimism about Putin's ambitions isn't shared by everyone.

[quote]You can't be a global power with the 11th ranked world GDP.

What is Russia's economic ranking right now? As other posters have said, the threat of Russia's invading other neighboring countries will have have to wait a long time now that their economy is tanking and they've committed to a full occupation of Ukraine for the long term.

[quote] But NATO needs to get involved in some capacity. Perhaps they can try and get Russia to agree for NATO to dispatch peacekeeping forces to secure Ukraine's power plants.

Dear, you’re too stupid to be having this conversation. See yourself out.

Say what you will, MAD prevented WW3 for 50+ years. Or at least, it forced us to fight it as local conflicts using brown people in countries whose proper names we couldn't pronounce as proxies.

Putin is powerful, but he can't single-handedly order a nuclear first-strike. He's tried in the past to get that authority, and Russians --even his political vassals -- always shouted back, "No!" in unison.

Russia's military has a degree of independence from Putin. It's not complete, and it's mostly veto power, but when you need 3 authorizations PLUS military obedience initiate a strike guaranteed to incite retaliation & destroy Russia... no, it won't happen. Period. Putin can scream & throw a tantrum like Trump last December, but Russia's other leaders care enough about Russia's continued existence to stand firm. Russia is corrupt to the core, but it also has an extraordinarily strong will to continue existing that not even Putin can overcome.

[quote] anyone put Putin in the death pool...this is the end of him

Sure, and Trump is either going to die or go to jail. lol

Putin is a bully. And like all bullies, he will keep bullying Ukraine (and any other non-NATO country) as long and as much as he can until he faces a bigger opponent. As for taking him out, people wished that for Trump and the fucker is still here. Only Russians can take out Putin. Will they? Doubt it.

What’s MAD?

[quote]What’s MAD?

I despair.

Putin's end will probably be like Trump's. He'll be escorted from the building, retreat to his palace, and hold court for fawning admirers & toadies while the rest of Russia gradually moves on and repairs the damage he did. There will be talk of prosecution that ultimately goes nowhere, and a replacement President who walks on eggshells as the country slowly cools down & returns to normalcy.

Putin can't simply "be removed", for the same reason Trump couldn't... he's built a personality cult & army of passionate supporters who view him (based on what he did ~20 years ago) as Russia's Savior. They might not be 90%+ as claimed, but they are solidly above 50%. You can't remove a despot who has supermajority popular support. Force it, and you'll just make him a martyr-saint & cause him to be replaced quickly by someone almost as bad... or worse.

Russia's military & oligarchs know this. They're going to slowly and secretly apply the brakes, and wait until Putin's popularity takes enough of a hit to "internally exile" him to luxury house arrest where he's out of the way, without becoming a martyr.

Unfortunately, Ukraine will suffer horribly for it. Just remember, our ultimate goal is to make Russia become a good neighbor, not turn it into a seething, angry hotbed of trolls & terrorists. We don't want to just kick the can 25 years down the road & set the stage for a Nazi-like rebirth. We have to somehow repeat the miracle of postwar Germany & Japan.

[quote]They're going to slowly and secretly apply the brakes, and wait until Putin's popularity takes enough of a hit to "internally exile" him to luxury house arrest where he's out of the way, without becoming a martyr.

That was Napoleon's fate, sentenced to Elba. He didn't stay there though.

[quote] I despair. —Perhaps blowing up the world is not such a bad idea after all

Aw come on. We have had an influx of youngins on this board and they wouldn’t know.

Mutually Assured Destruction

I still despair.

[quote] You can't be a global power with the 11th ranked world GDP.

Of course, you can. You just have to be willing to invest it all in your military and not give a shit about your people. Ergo, Russia.

[quote] 11th ranked world GDP.

They were 11th. Not for long.

Rumors floating on Twitter that Putin's military machine could collapse in two days (Sunday 3/6).

Just twitter murmuring from military types. But still.

Here's hoping R285. Any specific Twitter accounts I could look at?

This whole mess is extremely depressing and I will take my good news wherever I can find it.

It is a sign of how desperate we've become that we're hoping Twitter is right!

Here you go, R286. FWIW, these were the people who tracked down Navalny and Skripal's assasins.

Pretty much R287.

Thanks R288.

I sure hope they collapse soon but it seems like everyday the cunts are advancing and destroying more civilian targets.

FUCK YOU PUTIN!!!

That twitter prediction seems to be less about Russia running out of supplies completely than about running out of supplies available in Ukraine. Still, a damning indictment of their preparations; they'll have to slow things down (which we already see in some areas) and bring resources in, while under severe economic stress. Possible breathing space for the Ukrainians.

If they run out of supplies in Ukraine R291, doesn't that mean they'll have to go back to Russia? I assume by supplies they also mean food. I suppose they could also steal food from the locals but I suspect Ukrainians would rather set food on fire than give it to Russian soldiers.

R286- Yes, it brings back memories of the days of the clown.

The Nuclear Power Plant employees are hostages.

R294- I can't imagine their terror.

How about trip wires across the roads?

Just trying to help.

Companies that have refused to work in Russia because of the invasion of Ukraine:

But not McDonalds or Coke! Russian fatties rejoice!

Those idiotic fucking Russiatards are bombing the nuclear facility again.

[quote] Rumors floating on Twitter that Putin's military machine could collapse in two days (Sunday 3/6).

Happy 3/27

I hate this perpetual "about to shit my pants" feeling.

War sucks. Nuclear fallout sucks.

Can I just please have a "normal world" again? The last two years have been enough. Really.

Someone pass Putin a chicken wing please.