Karen Carpenter 1981 GMA interview

Such a loss. Her voice could have aged in beautiful ways. I'm grateful for the music Karen Carpenter made.

Fuck.....where is her NECK?!?

She looks like a skull on a post.

Horrifying.

Her hair was the epitome of dead protein

R3 Dust bunnies held together with White Rain.

why does she have 2 sets of eyebrows??? i don’t understand at all there was so much going on with her face to begin with…. did the makeup people say hey we need an extra set of eyebrows, no one will be able to take their eyes off them, so hopefully they won’t notice she is a skeleton

This poor woman.

R4 LMAO!

I would bet the farm I don't own that Richard was both fucking her, and fucking with her. Not to mention what hell her mother put her through.

What a wonderful talent she was. I'm so sad she couldn't get away from the clutches of the vultures around her.

Some of the most comprehensive information about her life and eventual demise is here. Good photos too as well as anecdotes from friends and acquaintances.

I thought it was just a bad perm.

She would not listen to the pleas of everyone in her life. Do you honestly think somebody at GMA would make a difference. She would have gotten up and walked off and gone straight to the shitter to throw ip.

I was so close to my goal weight in that picture.

The infamous "slimmer's disease" interview w/ Sue Lawley, 1981:

Her family did say something (and they were a dysfunctional family, no doubt about it). "Saying something" doesn't cure somebody with an addiction or a mental illness or an eating disorder.

Karen was not anorexic, girl was just simply pooped.

[quote] I would bet the farm I don't own that Richard was both fucking her, and fucking with her.

Was Karen molested? The truth would have been too shocking to America in the 70s. We may not learn the truth until Richard passes.

Such a disappointment.

I told her, I says, "Karen...ya eat that tossed salad and it'll go straight to your thighs."

FRAU ALERT AT R15!

MAN BATTLESTATIONS!

She was pooped and puked!

Fat!

If Mama Cass had given her the ham sandwich, they'd BOTH be alive today!

She looks truly horrible in that interview. It's nothing less than heartbreaking.

Having said that, I have to admit her look takes me to this - one of my favorite descriptions in the DL repertoire:

A poster stating that Armie Hammer's wife is "now just gristle clinging to bone powder."

Looking at R12 it's truly difficult to believe she was only 31!

Karen’s husband looked like her brother’s twin.

R23 oops I forgot to link photo.

I think she looks GREAT!

Publicly saying something just puts the anorexic person further on guard and heightens the secrecy already characteristic of the disease. Look how angry she is when the British interviewer asks her about anorexia.

I really don’t think she was ever sexually abused.

It was more psychological abuse and favoritism toward Richard. Her family never showed her that they loved her even when she was the breakout star.

Anorexia—what causes it and how to cure it—is still not well understood, which is strange for a serious fatal illness. Is is purely psychological? What trips the right wire in the brain? Etc.

R24 unsurprisingly her husband has gay face for days

Her husband resembles a young Miss Lindsay @R24

Richard seems so controlling in that interview. Cutting them both off so the genius can speak.

Her voice is my favorite of all time.

k.d. lang is right up there, too.

They had a toxic relationship, if she had lived she would have had to break away from him to have her own career. In that GMA interview she looks angry and a little deranged.

It’s really too bad she married grifter trash. If she’d found a caring husband she might have turned things around. She could have gotten more distance from her family.

[quote]If Mama Cass had given her the ham sandwich, they'd BOTH be alive today!

PLEASE stop W&Wing this old chestnut.

What is this breakneck grueling schedule they're talking about? They had been corny and passe' for years, as Disco was sweeping the nation. Were they playing county fairs?

She mentions 'Olivia' like she's her spouse.

Such jaw-dropping denial. Lots of skeletons in the Capenter's closet...

"... in that GMA interview she looks angry and a little deranged."

Her new album was to be called "Electrolytes".

Wow, I don't think I had ever seen that - scary. How sad.

Karen’s disco track was wonderful

Was Karen a closeted lesbian in love with Olivia? Is that why she married a closeted gay man?

Thanks for that clip, R12, never saw that before. They actually made her redo the interview to omit the anorexia questions, amazing.

But I must say, Richard looked kind of hot there.

I think Karen was just starved for human kindness and friendship. I think she was in love with the loser she married until she found out his game.

[quote] Was Karen a closeted lesbian in love with Olivia?

Yes, Karen had secrets and I believe Olivia knew them all. I admire that Olivia chose not to publicize their friendship.

She finally reached her target weight in July 1983.

[quote]Karen’s disco track was wonderful

oh please, it's like disco for 80-year-olds.

I'm sorry but I'll never understand their appeal. They're like the musical equivalent of your grandmother's needlepoint.

R44 = blocked.

This deserved to be a hit!

Unfortunately, her mind kept changing her body.

She was offered “rock with you” when she was recording her solo album but turned it down. She went to a recording session when Michael Jackson was cutting the song and said she could never make that song as great as MJ did.

Karen figured out before the wedding that her fiance was a conman. He even lied to her about starting a family and then she found out he had a vasectomy. But battle axe Agnes insisted the wedding had to take place because People magazine was doing a spread.

R48 that's so sad! What type of conman was he and what was his game? Was he after her money or her fame? Was he really secretly gay? If he was after her money, why the vasectomy? Or did he already have it before they met? Why did Karen fall for him? There had to be many thousands of wonderful men who would have really loved her. Why did she choose this creep?

A new book about the Carpenters came out at the end of the last year. It’s really just a big compendium of information and facts about each album and single released and about them touring. Richard cooperated extensively and comes off as the most insufferable, hotheaded asshole who I wouldn’t want to be in a room with for more then five minutes before stabbing him. There’s also a lot about the record company as well, they really saved A&R records, but seem to be despised by them at the same time. They really worked them to death with the touring, it’s amazing they got as far as they did before imploding or burning out.

I recently finished reading her biography, Little Girl Blue. There was a LOT of strangeness in that family. She dated her husband for two months before they became engaged. Apparently, he claimed he didn't know she was a celebrity (red flag). Right before the wedding, she found out he had a vasectomy (she told him she wanted to have children). After finding out, she broke up with him, but her mom forced her to go through with the wedding. He constantly borrowed money from her, and a friend said she once saw Karen with bruises on her, implying that the husband was beating her. It wasn't until one of his cars got repossessed that Karen finally moved out.

It's mentioned that while Karen was being hospitalized (feeding tube), she would call her parents' house. The mom would always answer the phone and would not let the dad talk with Karen. Karen's mom was very against the idea of Karen moving out, and when Karen expressed the idea, Agnes flipped out, referring to Karen as a "traitor." Later on, Karen started living with a boyfriend for a brief time. Of course, when this was revealed to her mom, she flipped out about her daughter living with a man out of wedlock.

The book mentions that Richard began dating their 18-year-old first cousin (now his wife) and how no one in the family thought that was weird except Karen. (I don't remember if the book states if the cousin was biological or adopted.)

Karen seemed to have idolized her brother. When she went to make her solo album, she felt the need to ask him for permission first. And after she had finished the album, she again needed his approval. And he told her it was shit and that she stole the Carpenters' sound. The album (good or not) was Karen's attempt at independence from Richard. The album wasn't released until years after Karen had died.

From Phil Ramone's "Making Records":

[quote] The reception that Karen’s album received from her brother Richard and the executives at A&M Records was cooler than expected. The pessimism of the executives won out, and Karen decided to shelve the album. A year or so after we finished her solo album, Karen called me at home. She and Richard had signed a new deal with A&M Records earlier in the day, and she was happy about going back to work. “We’ll be making a new Carpenters album,” she said, “And I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.” Then she lowered her voice. “I hope you don’t mind if I curse. I still love our fucking record!”. In the morning she was dead.

I always thought she looked beautiful in this video of her singing with Perry Como in 1974. Hard to believe that just 7 years later she does that GMA interview.

I don't know where they thought they were going in showbiz. An aging brother and sister act that made Debby Boone sound edgy. There was Disco, then Punk, then New Wave, then HipHop, then Grunge, then the Disney brats...

Actually Karen might have had a comeback with Grunge. Music as dreary as a rainy winter day in Seattle.

I definitely get sad hearing their songs.

Here's a rare, early recording of Karen singing a duet. Very different to the stuff she would later do with her brother. The lyrics are a bit eerie/melancholy when considering what happened to her.

[quote] don't know where they thought they were going in showbiz.

Didn't Linda Ronstadt go through a period of doing standards?

That could've been one route for them. They had already done stuff like When I Fall in Live, Little Boy Blue and I Can Dream Can't I.

^^ "Live" should be "Love" obviously ^^

I think it's a misguided control freak issue. What causes it can be multi faceted.

Didn't Las Vegas call?

"Lots of skeletons in the Carpenter's closet..."

Yes.

And near the end, one of them was Karen...

[quote] I don't know where they thought they were going in showbiz.

They could've gone the theme song route: Family Ties, Growing Pains, The Golden Girls.

She looks like Lady Tremain from Cinderella in that interview.

R55 they weren’t hip. Then, as now, not everyone likes hip. Your mom listened to their record (and so did you when you thought nobody was looking.)

R61 They did many annual residencies for two to three weeks in Vegas. At first they were the opening act for the oldie performers, but quickly segued into being the main act which created much tension with other performers.

Joan Lunden probably didn't ask any weight questions because she looked like Chrissy Metz next to Karen.

if dionne warwick and others like her could and did make a comeback in the early to mid 80's, then surely the carpenters could of as well, although i think it would take some great songs and outside help away from richard to make that happen..

the creep husband tom burris has long since remarried and yes to a woman....

getting back to that 1981 GMA interview, karen actually is pretty funny and intelligent with the jokes and comments.....she had a wonderful speaking voice as well....

If you want to know what the Carpenters would have sounded like in the 80's, listen to Richard's Time album, which had a minor Adult Contemporary hit with Dusty Springfield singing the lead.

[quote]Yes, Karen had secrets and I believe Olivia knew them all. I admire that Olivia chose not to publicize their friendship.

I believe this too. She supposedly didn't like Richard at all.

I've read that Richard was mentally and physically abusive to her, and there are moments in this interview where she's speaking and he's looking at her as if to say, "You better not fuck up or you're gonna pay."

R2 Anorexics hide their emaciated bodies with baggy clothes, ruffles etc. That way they don’t have to deal with concerned friends and relatives going on about how skinny they are. Karen’s neck is hidden behind a high ruffly collar here by design.

Imagine your family hating whatever you do, no matter what you do.

[quote] Anorexics hide their emaciated bodies with baggy clothes, ruffles etc. That way they don’t have to deal with concerned friends and relatives going on about how skinny they are. Karen’s neck is hidden behind a high ruffly collar here by design.

Some even go further and wear a fat suit and prosthetics. At least that's what I do.

The thing that I always remember about the Carpenter family dynamic was when they were in family therapy for Karen's anorexia. The therapist urged the family to tell Karen that they loved her. Richard was the only one who immediately said 'I love you.' Agnes said, "she knows we love her" and then refused to do it. That woman was a cold-hearted bitch. Maybe she was one of those women who viewed her daughter as competition from the males in the family? I think Karen hated herself and that's why she refused to nourish herself.

I looked at Richard's wikipedia. It states that his wife is his first cousin "adopted, no blood relation." SICK. They were still raised as family, you don't fuck your family, Richard. That's almost as bad as that actress whose parents were brother and (adopted) sister.

Here she is singing "Touch Me When We're Dancing" in 1981. She usually sang flawlessly live, but in this performance, she struggles with the song in places.I also can't help but notice the sadness in her eyes.

[quote] Imagine your family hating whatever you do, no matter what you do.

Don't really have to imagine that, unfortunately. No doubt one of the many reasons I feel such sympathy for Karen.

I LOVE Touch Me When We're Dancing. Wish it had done better on the charts.

R77 I just listened to it. I didn’t enjoy it at all.

When Karen and Richard, well into adulthood and mega-fame, finally moved out of their parents home, the two of them moved into the same house, where they each had their own living quarters. There were some co-dependency or control issues going on there.

Karen and Richard were lifelong lovers

Anorexia also makes people exhausted and she looked tired.

I bed Richard suffered when Karen was too weak to fuck

IIRC, a journalist wrote that Karen was "chubby" and that was all it took to drive her to mental illness-anorexia. She had very wide hips and no amount of starvation could change that.

Hugs, R76.

[quote]Anorexia also makes people exhausted and she looked tired.

Karen herself said it best: she was pooped!

R85 laxatives will make you pooped

The mind still staggers that they originally talked about casting her as Sandy in "Grease."

R87 Frenchie the 'Beauty Queen Dropout' would have suited her better

Tell me about, Stud.

Speaking of Grease, were they lezing it up in this picture?

R77, wasn't "Touch Me When We're Dancing" their only top 20 hit of the Eighties? I knew they were popular in the Seventies, but I didn't realize how much. Apparently only Elton John, the Bee Gees and Paul McCartney had more hit singles in that decade.

I loved their trio of Leon Russell songs...Superstar, A Song For You and This Masquerade.

I believe so, R91.

R91.. the carpenters were actually the top U.S. hitmakers of the 1970s

their single "touch me when were dancing" from their last album "made in america" that was released before Karen passed, reached #16 on the adult contemporary and was their last top 20 hit...it was considered somewhat of a comeback since they had not made a album (besides the christmas albums) in 4 years and had not toured in a few years as well...

richard to this day claims that the song was on it's way to the top 10 on the billboard chart, but because they were not considered "hip" they faced backlash from radio stations who even if they created the greatest pop song ever by the early 1980's they would NOT play the carpenters. and didn't want them to have too much success...Don't know how true this is? I mean people like dionne warwick and gladys knight and others regain popularity on at least the adult contemporary radio stations and charts, during this time, and i don't think they were considered "hip and cool" by radio stations and the powers that be?...

That R75 clip is so sad and disturbing.

Surely there are people on this board that watched those 1981 interviews and performances live. Was it rumored she had cancer, or had a drug problem? Did these appearances even make the news?

My generation was shocked by Whitney's September 2001 performance, and it was front page news.

Richard, ready for a night of cruising.

Love this!

Richard wanted them to be young, thin and gorgeous forever- selling out arenas. They weren't that kind of group. And the more frustrated he became the more he nagged Karen about her looks.

In no way should she have been on stage or doing interviews looking like that. He's literally insane.

Too bad Karen never got to meet a Joan Jett or her friend Bebe Buell. They would have cured her of her “neurosis”.

Agnes seems like the kind of mother who shames her daughter into losing weight.

In middle school (mid-1990's), our health class had to watch The Karen Carpenter story as part of a lesson on eating disorders. It was actually well done, but as a 12 year old boy I still joined my friends in making jokes throughout it.

What were Kristy MacNichol’s comments after Karen died?

[quote]There’s also a lot about the record company as well, they really saved A&R records, but seem to be despised by them at the same time.

You can imagine record company sitting around a table moaning how the music sucks, but hey, it pays the bills.

I didn't see it mentioned, but there is a notorious interview Richard did with NPR/Terry Gross in which she asks him about their sound, being labeled "uncool", and Richard does not take it well. at. all. You might've thought he had some perspective, could make a joke like "he, Terry (bitch), we were the top selling artists of our day" (or something like that). Apparently Richard fancied himself this genius producer, when most people feel that his producing was the equivalent of dumping ranch dressing all over Karen's beautiful vocals.

"Agnes seems like the kind of mother who shames her daughter into losing weight."

If only that was all...

I really love that film Todd Haynes made about her.

Performing Dancing in the Street.

That was great, r105.

I don't understand the renewed love for the Carpenters that some people (many on Datalounge) have comes from. The Carpenters may have had a string of hits but they were in their time considered a joke. The music they made was the blandest of the bland, lame MOR. But I guess there is always an audience for that kind of thing.

Richard and Karen were both conservative people. They hated the flamboyant glitter rockers of the era. One of them, I can't remember which one, called Ian Hunter of Mott the Hoople "that thing with the boots and the shades." They performed for Nixon at the White House and he called them "American youth at its finest!" They would go on to be a pill addict and an anorexic who would die of the disease.

"They wanted me to play Sandy in the movie Grease but Richard said no. He said it didn't mesh with our wholesome image, and besides I was too fat... So I swallowed a whole box of Ex Lax. Even though I was pooped at the time, I never pooped again"

I always get into The Carpenters this time of year. I play their Christmas albums throughout December and once it's over, I start listening to them again.

[quote] I don't understand the renewed love for the Carpenters that some people (many on Datalounge) have comes from.

Their songs are very relatable: a blossoming romance (Top of the World, Close to You, We've Only Just Begun), a troubled romance (Hurting Each Other), a misstep (It's Going To Take Some Time), and who the fuck can't relate to Rainy Days and Mondays Always Get Me Down

[quote] Their songs are very relatable: a blossoming romance (Top of the World, Close to You, We've Only Just Begun), a troubled romance (Hurting Each Other), a misstep (It's Going To Take Some Time), and who the fuck can't relate to Rainy Days and Mondays Always Get Me Down.

They're BLAND. And treacly. I hated most of the songs you mentioned; sugary pop pap makes me ill. But I will admit I actually did like a few of their songs. "Superstar", "Rainy Days and Mondays" and "Goodbye To Love" all suited Karen Carpenter's mournful, depressed vocals perfectly.

I remember seeing her as a kid performing on a TV special around 1978 or 1979. I don't think it was that stupid "Space Encounters" thing they did, it was something else. But I was shocked at how thin she was. I thought she had cancer, and I got the impression that she was going to die soon.

[quote] I don't understand the renewed love for the Carpenters that some people (many on Datalounge) have comes from. The Carpenters may have had a string of hits but they were in their time considered a joke. The music they made was the blandest of the bland, lame MOR. But I guess there is always an audience for that kind of thing.

The mere fact that they had a big string of hits proves that they weren't considered a joke by a large swath of the listening public.

Even though it was all a bit saccharine in tone, there was genuine quality there...in the compositions, the arrangements, the production, and the performance. Also there was a decent amount of variety within that string of hits; each one wasn't a carbon copy of the last, unlike their fellow 70's schlockmeister Barry Manilow. A lot of people might not have liked what they did, but they usually did it very well.

I think maybe a lot of people like me grew up as kids hearing them on AM top 40 radio, whether we wanted to or not. And since their music was true "adult contemporary" it translated well into our adult years.

Also people always love you more after you're dead. Especially if you die young and tragically.

Perry Como is a hot daddy in R54.

From This Moment On.

[quote] I think maybe a lot of people like me grew up as kids hearing them on AM top 40 radio, whether we wanted to or not.

This is so true.

"The mere fact that they had a big string of hits proves that they weren't considered a joke by a large swath of the listening public."

Oh, they had their fan base. But the Carpenters were considered to be SO uncool. And they certainly were. They were about as uncool as you could get.

Any stories of cuntery from either Richard or Karen?

[quote] Oh, they had their fan base. But the Carpenters were considered to be SO uncool. And they certainly were. They were about as uncool as you could get.

You'll get no argument from me on that. In those days, an artist was either on the right side of the so-called "Generation Gap", or on the wrong side. If you threw in with the old farts, like the Carpenters did, you got no respect from your own generation.

I just think that as people from that era grew up, a lot of us realized how unimportant image and "the cool factor" is when it comes to the actual quality of the music.

John Denver was similarly seen as uncool, then he tragically croaked, and suddenly everybody loves "Rocky Mountain High" and "Take Me Home, Country Roads". They forget what a hopeless dork he came off as...which is a good thing, because he actually was a huge talent and made some very good music, for what it was.

I think the Carpenters had a built in nostalgia factor from the beginning that was embraced by many during one of the most turbulent periods in history. They were a safe space to gravitate to for many, the Captain and Tennile served very much the same purpose, married edition.

I'm with R111 in liking some of their songs (including the ones he mentioned) and very much disliking others, especially the perky ones like Sing and Top of the World. But I like many of the sad ones and some of the others (Hurting Each Other, We've Only Just Begun, For All We Know).

Re her illness, I don't know how to link to them but if you Google 'Karen Carpenter Emmylou Harris', images come up of them at the Grammys around 1977. The contrast in the two women is striking - Emmylou looks gorgeous and healthy and Karen is just so emaciated.

[quote]The Carpenters may have had a string of hits but they were in their time considered a joke.

So was ABBA. Time can change some perspectives.

Last press junket....Merv Griffin....Also on Mervs couch : Travolta and Olivia Newton John.

They re-recorded "Merry Christmas Darling" seven years later because Karen (Richard?) felt the original vocals were too "low" (too lezzie?).

Olivia talking about Karen in her autobiography:

[quote]I still miss Karen a lot to this day. She and I became friends immediately. I was drawn to her terrific sense of humour and, of course, her extraordinary talent. She was quirky and fun, and we really enjoyed each other’s company.

[quote]Karen’s lush voice was truly astonishing and reached the depths of my heart. We talked about what she wanted for her life and what I wanted from mine. No topic was off limits.

[quote]She got married and it sadly ended fourteen months later. That’s when the anorexia really hit her hard. She became so thin it was frightening, but she still mustered the guts to divorce her husband, break out on her own and move to New York for treatment. I was so proud of strong and determined Karen.

[quote]I truly believed that she was on the road to recovery. She had the most gorgeous townhouse she was putting the finishing touches on. She adored anything Disney, so her house was full of all whimsical things, and beautifully done.

[quote]The last time I saw her, we were both staying at the Drake Hotel in New York and she looked so much better. She had gained some weight and was bouncing back, shopping, laughing and doing all the things she used to do. It was one of those moments where you sigh with relief, and I truly believed that the crisis had passed.

[quote]I was in Los Angeles, listening to my car radio on the way to a restaurant for a lunch meeting with Pat, when I heard that Karen had died. It was as if the sky fell to earth. My stomach hit the ground. This couldn’t be possible. I had a date to see her [italic]the very next day[/italic].

[quote]Devastated, I arrived at the restaurant and cried all the way through our lunch. Pat tried to comfort me, but I was inconsolable. Karen was so young and full of hope and promise.

[quote]Karen Carpenter’s death was a great loss, not only to her friends and family, but also to everyone graced with her gorgeous voice. We will never know what she could have done artistically, which was sad for everyone around the globe. She was bursting with talent and creativity, but that was only part of it. She was also a kind and authentic human being.

[quote]I’ve always wanted to respect Karen’s privacy and I know that her struggle was a hard one. Perhaps there can be a positive from such a terrible tragedy: her death marked the beginning of raising awareness about anorexia and body image. Little did I know that later in my life, I’d be confronted with this insidious illness with my own daughter.

[quote]Karen shined a bright light on anorexia, which allowed so many others to heal, including my own Chloe. Karen never got a chance to tell her story, but I’m so proud of my daughter who is working on telling her own.

[quote]We have Karen to thank for all the lives that have been saved after women and men found treatment and acceptance from their families and society.

[quote]One thing remains: I still miss my friend.

[quote] Karen shined a bright light on anorexia, which allowed so many others to heal.

What? During her lifetime she vehemently denied having a problem. She went to her grave denying she has any kind of eating disorder. She never "shined a bright light" on anything, unless you believe her death was the catalyst for anorexia to be taken seriously. Olivia Newton John sure is giving her a lot of credit that she doesn't deserve, like she was some kind of savior for anorexics or something.

[quote]unless you believe her death was the catalyst for anorexia to be taken seriously

I guess that was her point.

R126.. privately, karen DID admit towards the end she had a problem, she just wasn't ready to do so publicly, but if she had lived I think she would have....

[quote] I was in Los Angeles, listening to my car radio on the way to a restaurant for a lunch meeting with Pa

Who's Pat?

Pat Farrar, her friend and partner in Koala Blue.

You have to want to get better to get better.

Karen never got further than denial. Yes, her mom was a bitch.

How could GMA allow her to go on the air with TWO sets of eyebrows?

That is so bizarre.

She looked like a crazy drunk.

Thanks r125. That was beautiful.

I think a lot of gay men can relate to Karen. She tried so hard to live up to everyone else’s standards that she suffered in silence and never found someone to love her the way she deserved to be loved. A lot of us can sympathize with that.

R132 it is strange.

Here is the song, "Road Ode." Written about the weariness of touring, they performed various concerts from 1971–75, with 203 shows in 1974.

R11

You are terrible.

Just before we aired, I told Karen she looked a bit bloated and could afford to lose a few.

I remember seeing photos of Karen Carpenter where she's mugging for the camera next to Richard, whose face remains impassive. I think it was from a photoshoot for the Rolling Stone; one of the photos ended up on the cover. What was the photographer thinking when he took those pictures? That they were cute and funny? They weren't. They made her look retarded.

Since R138 has decided to NOT present a picture for reference, here it is...from 1974.

Their big hit that year was a cover of the Marvelettes "Please Mr. Postman".

Karen was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with Karen's struggles and she theirs.

I always found it odd that for an act that was SO identified with ballads, two of their three number one songs were not ballads.

"Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with Karen's struggles and she theirs."

What makes you think she had a "good heart?" I never heard of any indication that she had one. And she "identified" with the "struggles" of "gay people?" What the hell kind of La-La Land are you living in? I never heard anywhere that she had any fondness in her heart for gays whatsoever. And no, she wasn't gay herself. She was just unlucky in love. The guy she married was a total loser dickhead. She must have been really desperate to be married to tie the knot with that creep.

She was the best advertisement we ever had...and the worst advertisement we ever had...

She could have lost a few more pounds.

Agnes was Richard's number one fan and I think she hated Karen for becoming the star.

R142... karen was KNOWN throughout the industry as having a "good heart".... her friends and colleagues all agree to this...

she was one of those friends who would do anything for you types.....perhaps TOO much to the detriment of her own life, choices and wishes...

[quote] karen was KNOWN throughout the industry as having a "good heart".... her friends and colleagues all agree to this...

Of course, they all said that after she died. What did you expect them to say.

R147... oh brother, whatever.....

I always thought Richard was cute, but now I find him very creepy.

Weird that she died in that bedroom in her parents' house- after moving away, buying homes, getting married, etc. Right back where she started.

Karen was happiest playing the drums.

How could Karen identify with the struggles of gay people?

She had no problem in refusing food, whereas.....well, you know.....

FAT WHORES!

[quote]Karen was happiest playing the drums.

Karen was happiest flicking a clit with her tongue.

That poor woman.

People looked older in those days, and the early 80s fashions didn’t help.

In fairness to Richard, I thought most of the songs that Phil Ramone got Karen to record for her solo album were either crap or unsuited for her.

Richard’s arrangements suited Karen perfectly. The problem was mostly the material. Richard and John Bettis had written great songs that were perfect for Karen in the 70s (including hits such as Only Yesterday, Goodbye to Love, Top Of The World) and Richard also managed to find songs by other composers that fit The Carpenters 70s sound perfectly.

By the late 70s, Richard’s original output had dwindled and the song selections for each album after the excellent “Horizon” were not great. Their one 80s album before Karen died (Made In America) was atrocious.

I did enjoy “Lovelines” which was released after Karen’s death. It included the four best tracks from her solo album, plus unreleased material.

[quote]Weird that she died in that bedroom in her parents' house

She was found in the kitchen according to the findadeath story linked above.

[quote]She was found in the kitchen according to the findadeath story linked above.

Ironically, it was the only time she'd ever been there.

Wrong, she died in her walk in closet.

In fairness, she'd spent most of her life in the closet.

Re: the eyebrows, I think this is very poor execution of a “cut crease” eyeshadow technique which is used to make eyes look bigger and brighter. Usually you don’t end up with 2 sets of eyebrows.

And also r140 was making a long running dl joke. It was originally a quote someone or another said about Judy Garland.

Wasn't it originally a reply to Judy "Pills" Garland?

House tour

Karen's mother Agnes Carpenter was a fire-breathing cunt who openly favored Richard, made no secret that he was her favorite child, and was always critical of Karen. Karen could never do anything right and Richard was perfect. That did a lot of damage to Karen.

I think if Karen had lived she could've had a resurgence in the second half of the 80s when the adult contemporary sound became huge, either as a solo artist or with Richard. Bette Midler and Rod Stewart revived their careers with that sound and you also had Gloria Estefan and Michael Bolton. Yes, the music was total MOR but it would've been a perfect fit for Karen.

R95--Hmmm "LOADING ONLY" sign in the background--Richard was a bossy bottom or a total top?

I can easily hear Karen singing "Wind Beneath My Wings" and "From A Distance."

Karen should have moved out of her parents' house when she made her first million and not looked back. If Richard didn't like it, she could have gotten someone else to write and arrange her songs. She was the star of the Carpenters, not her brother. The problem was that she could never break out of the toxic patterns her family established when she was young.

A lot of anorexics are emotionally stunted, and Karen was no exception.

[quote] I always thought Richard was cute, but now I find him very creepy.

He looked attractive in every fourth or fifth photo.

Trading in one lesbian for another.

Karen and Phil Ramone were a bad pairing for her solo outing.

Karen should have gone to Peter Asher and used Linda Ronstadt’s backing musicians. It could have been Karen in roller skates 🛼 in 1978!

Karen's sad family dynamics remind me of Whitney's. Extraordinarily talented closeted lesbians growing in hostile families, forced into being musical "Sweethearts" of the MOR pop music world, unhappy marriages, and early self-destruction and death.

Time for a commercial break.

Japanese chocolate ad.

I’m not ashamed to admit on an anonymous message board that I had this poster on my wall as a kid! I was a wholesome gayling once upon a time.

I thought Richard showing a bit of chest hair was hot at the time. Karen looked healthy in this photo too, and her blouse accentuated a pair of nice titties.

The Carpenters did an episode of This is Your Life right after hit it big. Anges and Harold come out around 16:20

The body language between Anges and both Karen and Richard is cold and visibly awkward, and then there's a bizarre moment where Agnes gives Karen her catchers mit and hat from when she played softball as a kid. It seems very passive aggressive, and you can tell Karen was not happy.

[quote] Agnes gives Karen her catchers mit and hat from when she played softball as a kid.

Softball? An OGT (Obviously Gay Trait). Karen was Family, no question.

R-64 misogyny has many tentacles, and the patriarchy seek to set women against their own.

Sounds like embittered Agnes resented the power and wealth (and the corollary of freedom) her daughter acquired through talent and fame, while hating her own enslaved and probably miserable womanhood, and so sought to sabotage.

That's a hard living 61-year-old truck stop lot lizard 31-year-old.

Harold passed on Richard's 42nd birthday.

Agnes, while I'm sure deeply saddened by the loss, probably cursed him under her breath for ruining her perfect little baby boy's "special day."

Funny how huge Linda Ronstadt was back then, but she's half-forgotten now.

r172 that is true. Whitney also had an overbearing family that was a total pain in the ass and caused her a lot of problems.

I always disliked that photo at R175.Richard looks angry; Karen looks depressed, head head hanging down, her uncombed hair hanging in her face. It's a strange picture.

They need to bring that show (This Is Your Life) back.

I wish Karen had done a duet with David Gates from the group Bread. The two groups had parallel careers (Make It With You knocked out Close To You from the number one spot in 1970), and their voices would've sounded great together on songs like "If" or "It Don't Matter To Me".

A simple multi-vitamin would have added years to Karen's life. The straw-like hair was proof she was lacking essential nutrients.

[quote] They need to bring that show (This Is Your Life) back.

Sid Caesar and company did a brilliant parody of that embarrassing show. Carl Reiner was the host of "This Is Your Story" and when he tells Al Duncy (Caesar), who is an unsuspecting member of the audience, that it's his life they'll be showcasing he first faints in shock, then attempts to flee. It's one of the greatest comedy skits from "Your Show Of Shows."

R176 Richard is such an asshole talking about how much he hated the music to "Merry Christmas Darling" -- to the composer-- and how he made it so much better.

I always thought those big shoulder pads were popular in the mid-80s. Was Karen actually setting fashion trends?

Karen's voice WAS the Carpenters. Not to belittle Richard's skill and hard work, but she delivered the goods. They were a package deal, but he must have picked up on the audience adulation of her, and not necessarily of his arranging and piano playing (and singing!), though he brought them up every chance he got. He probably dreaded losing control of her.

He was definitely controlling of Karen and feared her going solo because he knew he was nothing without her.

The biography "Little Girl Blue" is very good, Karen had such an unhappy life. Karen Ramone (who has since died) was the wife of Phil Ramone and a close friend of Karen's. She was interviewed for the book and she didn't hold back at all. She hated Richard and Agnes and went into detail about how controlling and critical they were of Karen. She said it was a very sad situation.

I think Karen was just fucking exhausted by Agnes and Richard and saw no escape and her body did her in as the only way to escape their clutches and get some god damn peace for once in her life.

Olivia sings 'CLOSE TO YOU' live in Japan, 2003.

Karen at the end. Yikes!

R193, that was sweet. I remember Petula Clark singing "For All We Know" a few days after Karen died.

R194, that is a fake photo.

Donna Summer performing Superstar with Richard.

Incredibile performance by Donna in R197.

r196 no it isn't fake, it's been published in many sources and in various Carpenters tv documentaries. This is the full photo, of Karen with Richard and Herb Alpert.

#194, from all reports Karen had gained weight near the end and at least looked healthier. But years of dieting, abuse and sudden weight gain led to cardiac arrest.

I believe she and Richard wanted to stay the teen wundertwins 4-ever. That's when they 'peaked', and they could never mature or evolve. They didn't know how to grow up. The attachment to their parents is a red flag.

[quote]They're BLAND. And treacly.

These are OPINIONS. And bad ones.

Wrong, R199. the photo in R194 is quite different from the one in R199. It's clearly been edited.

It hasn't been edited, it's just a close up. I vividly remember this photo from Behind the Music.

God, you queens just don't quit.

Richard was not to blame you vultures

Do you guys think Richard married his cousin because he couldn't marry his sister?

I don't care if the cousin was adopted and not a blood relation, that's still gross.

I believe Richard's cousin was also quite a few years younger than him, she was just barely legal.

It's not a close up, R203. Your photo was stretched vertically to make her look even thinner. It's obvious to anyone with photo editing experience.

It’s not like we have sexual intercourse or anything.

Another photo

Same photo of Karen with Richard and Herb Alpert. Her face looks the same as the close up photo

This was Karen about a month before she died, at her last public appearance.

[quote] These are OPINIONS. And bad ones.

Nope. You're just a fan of bland and treacly and the Carpenters were the epitome of it.

[quote]if dionne warwick and others like her could and did make a comeback in the early to mid 80's, then surely the carpenters could of as well, although i think it would take some great songs and outside help away from richard to make that happen.

ie, the Bee Gees. Did the Caroenters ever work with the Gibbs?

[quote] When the Carpenters version became a hit, Bette Midler took some shots at Karen Carpenter, often mocking her wholesome image. Karen claimed the jokes didn't bother her; after her death, Midler apologized in Redbook magazine, saying she often thinks of Karen.

Talk about low-hanging fruit, Bette.

I always thought that Richard Carpenter was gay. I was so surprised when he eventually got married!

[quote] "Dust bunnies held together with White Rain."

And they still make that shit. We never used it, but I knew plenty of people who did. Even Suave was better!

If the Carpenters were considered uncool, then... so what?

Like most people, I stopped caring about what was considered "cool" long before the end of adolescence.

Is she in OP’s pic? I see some sort of shadow…..

Herb Alpert in r211 is totally hot.

[quote] If the Carpenters were considered uncool, then... so what? Like most people, I stopped caring about what was considered "cool" long before the end of adolescence

I think music journalists and musicians themselves are the gatekeepers of what is considers fool because it’s an industry circle jerk that affects reputation, advertising and (back in the not so distant past) airplay.

Whereas 95% of humanity simply listen to what they like.

I wish I could go back in time to save Karen and fuck Herb Albert!

Richard wanted to too.

I thought was The Sky’s In Love with You?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Herb Albert and A&M also produced the Brothers Johnson and the bass is all Louis Johnson in “Rise”(1979). It’s a distinct bass guitar. The Brothers Johnson also collaborated in Karen’s solo album and My Body Keeps Changing My Mind. I always felt like it was the most odd collaborations, to put the Carpenters in with a kind of hard core funk sound. It may have been destined for disaster right from the beginning.

[quote]How could GMA allow her to go on the air with TWO sets of eyebrows?

The "second set of eyebrows" below the brows are actually the shadows from the natural indentation of her eye sockets. That's just how thin she was. You can see it better here, this is also from 1981.

It's actually really peculiar that so many people here thought she went on with two sets of eyebrows.

R221... exactly! the same goes for the rock and roll hall of fame.. a few gatekeepers and the clique of what is considered "cool" enough to become members..

the fact that the carpenters are not in the hall is shameful... sure they aren't rock, but is madonna or donna summer?

R208 is right, put the photos together and you can see the first one was stretched in editing. Not sure why R193 is being so defensive about it, they probably just got it from a terrible blog who didn't know how to publish photos without messing them up.

damn her hair was a hot mess

Anorexics have terrible hair because they are so nutrient-deficient and maintain a dangerously low weight. Their hair on their head falls out and body hair becomes thick all over in an effort to keep the person (devoid of body fat) warm. It's a horrible disease.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is bullshit. They won't let the Monkees in because they were a 'fake' band who didn't always play their own instruments, when it's well known that the Wrecking Crew (a cadre of expert studio musicians) played on albums by most popular groups of the 60s and early 70s.

Emotionally, Karen sounded about 14 years old: living with her parents, obsessed with Disney, making lists of (amazing, unrealistic) traits she wanted in a husband. One theory is that anorexia is a way of staving off puberty. If Karen were a closeted lesbian, her fleeing from an adult body and adult sexuality by starving herself and living like a child makes sense.

R211 She is all wig and dentures.

Anorexia can also be triggered by sexual abuse.

R222 Hert Albert was cute, but I can't hear that song without thinking of a "single" included in Hustler magazine. A friend of mine had it. You cut it out and it would play on a turntable.

That song was in the background. I'm sure it was unauthorized. As it played, two women in a bubble bath had sex with each other.

Whenever I hear that music I can still hear, "Pass that bottle of body lotion. No, here, let me do that for you . . ."

Herb Alpert, guys. Not Albert, Alpert.

[quote]Anorexia can also be triggered by sexual abuse.

The Todd Hanes movie implies that. You can see a naked Barbie butt being spanked in the closet.

R324 They are not dentures, they just look like they are. When people lose a huge amount of weight, say like people with cancer, their faces shrivel making their teeth protrude.

I have recently started listening to the British singer Rumer, and I find that her voice has traces of Karen in it. I really like her rendition of (They Long To Be) Close To You, which is featured on her album of Bacharach songs.

I wonder what Karen would have made of Madonna. I can imagine Karen doing ballads like Live To Tell and You'll See, had she been making music in the mid 80s and into the 90s.

I don't think the Carpenters would have had any hits during the 80s. The way music was going they would have been considered totally passe. Karen's droning, depressed voice would have grated on people.

Madonna’s “Crazy For You” was co-written by John Bettis who co-wrote many of The Carpenters’ hits.

Her face looks like a talking shovel.

I took Karen’s place.

[quote] Madonna’s “Crazy For You” was co-written by John Bettis who co-wrote many of The Carpenters’ hits.

I don't think the Carpenters would have have a hit with that song. Richard probably would not have wanted Karen to record it. It's about....SEX! And the idea of Karen Carpenter singing about sex was unfathomable. It's why her solo album was never released. It contained songs about....SEX! The Carpenter's fan base would never have wanted their little Karen to be singing about....SEX!

The Japanese sure do love The Carpenters

SEX, R246 , SEX!

the beginning of this songs gives me chills it's so prophetic "in my own time nobody knew the pain I was going thru."

I guess they knew Karen but nobody could help.

R241, Madonna has actually named Karen as an early influence on her growing up in the ‘70s. Madonna’s delivery on the song Ghosttown from Rebel Heart (a definite mixed bag album) always reminded me of Karen a little, especially during the verses.

That Aggie Carpenter was a nasty old cunt.

Karen would have sounded great singing the Madonna tracks, This Used To Be My Playground, and Take A Bow.

Karen:

Oh Mother 🎵

You can't hurt me now

I got away from you, I never thought I would

You can't make me cry, you once had the power

I never felt so good about myself

R253 - I can totally hear Karen singing that. Yikes!

Supposedly "Rain" is Madonna's attempt at a Karen-esque vocal.

So sad, and such a loss.

R255 “Rain” is one of Madonna’s best. Her work in the 90’s is definitely her best.

The Carpenters had a comeback in the 90s. There was even a tribute album by then-hot bands. If Karen had lived, they probably would have done more albums and tours then. Seventies nostalgia was a big thing in the 90s.

Karen would definitely have chuckled to herself seeing how fat Midler got.

[quote] “Rain” is one of Madonna’s best. Her work in the 90’s is definitely her best.

Let's not kid ourselves. For every Vogue, there's a Hanky Panky.

R260 lol

I actually loved the I Am Breathless album. Hanky Panky was my least favorite track on it, though.

I really think it was a different time in several ways.

There were boundaries that a show like GMA would not cross to guarantee access - same as today, with the difference that a gossip blog or social media would have elevated chatter about Karen much earlier.

And we really didn't know as much about anorexia - I mean, now it's a well known thing, but then the cultural awareness of it was limited, and it was thought to be a limited issue in scope.

She looks a little porky there, OP.

Would Agnes have flipped her lid if Karen sang Hanky Panky or would she have demanded Karen appear bare-assed in the video with Harold spanking her?

I'm sorry, it's true. P is for Porky.

Rainy days and moo cows always get ME down!

Can we enshrine Agnes Carpenter in the DL Cunt Hall of Fame? It seems like a glaring omission that she's not included with Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, Mamie Eisenhower, et al.

"Looking a little pudgy around the eye sockets, Karen. Have you weighed yourself today?"

[quote]And we really didn't know as much about anorexia - I mean, now it's a well known thing, but then the cultural awareness of it was limited, and it was thought to be a limited issue in scope.

I remember when I was a teen, mowing my parents' grass and seeing the girl who lived next door. I hadn't seen her in ages, but she scared me. She looked like a skeleton draped in skin.

My mother explained that she was anorexic and what that meant. This was in the late '70s. So I knew about it. And I assume other people did, even before Karen made it a topic talked about openly.

"Karen, have you weighed yourself this hour, pudding?"

Agnes was a nightmare. Associates of the Carpenters have talked about what a critical bitch she was to Karen. Nobody really liked her.

I was the one who introduced the world to anorexia! I WIN!

Sincerely,

The Best Little Girl in the World (brought to you by Aaron Spelling two full years before KC died)

Karen, what would be the top tips you'd give to other pear-shaped women, like you are, what would you like to tell them?

Carol Burnette said Richard C was the worst guest on her show.

Their strength was Karen's melancholy songs sung in low alto. When they veered from that it was treacly.

Without Karen, Richard would be a h.s. music teacher who moonlights in lounges. He has no voice to speak of, no charisma and that irritating lisp.

You will refer to me as Mrs. Carpenter! That's how we do it where I'm from!

Here's a blind item that's obviously Carol Burnett talking about Richard Carpenter

I believe that Carol Burnett said that Richard and particularly Karen seemed petrified of their mother. It wasn’t Richard who was the bad guest, it was their mother who Carol said was the worst show business parent she’d ever come across.

In that TV movie, The Karen Carpenter Story, Agnes seemed infantilizing and controlling. Since Richard Carpenter was an uncredited director on the thing, I'm sure it's accurate.

If Richard allowed that portrayal to be irked you know the reality was many times worse.

It wasn't me in that Carol Burnett blind item, it was that fat breeding sow Olive Osmond who slapped her tub-o-lard little bitch Marie! I swear!

R280... From other biographies of the carpenters and karen carpenter, the tv movie was MAJORLY watered down because of Richard's involvement, NOT including his mother Agnes major racism, her dominating her weak husband to the point where Agnes would very very rarely even let him, the father Harold even talk to Karen when she called the home, to the story of her forcing karen to go thru with the marriage because all of the invitations had been sent out and the media notified and to karen "you made your bed you now have to lie in it!" even AFTER karen came to her crying and uncontrollably upset because she found out that her future husband had a vasectomy without telling her until the last minute and couldn't have kids, something karen desperately wanted, and so on and so on....

[quote] And we really didn't know as much about anorexia - I mean, now it's a well known thing, but then the cultural awareness of it was limited, and it was thought to be a limited issue in scope.

Was Karen Carpenter the first major anorexia tragedy in the modern sense?

Stop the nonsense. The two of them were geniuses together as was Karen on her own. The world is a poorer place without her voice and their music. I miss her so much.

To hide that she wasn't eating Karen would rave about her meal and insist that others at the table had to try it. This would continue until Karen's plate was empty. Agnes caught on to this trick so she would pile more food onto the plate. It infuriated Karen.

Damn, Agnes slapped Karen in the face right in front of Carol Burnett and everybody who worked on her show!

Agnes was a cunt - but slap Karen across the face? In front of others? Maybe in private, I hope not! Agnes was so rigid and proper. I'm not siding with the devil, just the accuracy of that blind item.

Mitchell Anderson who played Richard in the TV movie said the script was changed several times to appease Agnes.

I think they were part of the musical purge that happens every decade, but there were groups and artists during the made in America time frame that were having big hits with soft rock/adult contemporary songs.

The mother shouldn't be blamed for Karen's dreadful marriage. So what if she said Karen had to go through with it because the invitations were sent and People magazine was going to be there? She didn't HAVE to do it. So the fault was hers, for getting involved with the dickhead in the first place and walking down the aisle with him.

"She didn't HAVE to do it."

Yeah, she did. Because she was in that creepy Carpenter cult family. We like to think Karen would be doing this and doing that now (Lana Del Rey-type songs come to mind). But for whatever reason she couldn't escape them, and it killed her.

[quote]there were groups and artists during the made in America time frame that were having big hits with soft rock/adult contemporary songs.

True, that was the peak of the soft rock/yacht rock sound.

[quote] Yeah, she did. Because she was in that creepy Carpenter cult family.

Oh, come on. She was an adult, a very rich adult. She didn't have to do anything she didn't want to do. If she let her mother have that much control over her then she was very sick in the head indeed.

R5 I just noticed in the British Sue Lawley interview that her eyes are sunken in so much, that that's what looks like she has second eye brows!! Yikes!

[quote]If she let her mother have that much control over her then she was very sick in the head indeed.

Did you see what she looked like at the end? That she was very sick in the head was quite clear.

"Sick in the head?" I think it's clear that she had mental health issues. Her mother was abusive towards her; there are multiple accounts. Her brother was no ally, either. The effects of that family abuse don't magically fall away when one turns 18. Karen was a troubled adult because her family treated her like dirt.

Jesus, some damaged freaks post here.

It’s unbelievable that Karen’s last meal was a shrimp salad from Denny’s!

Are they sure she didn't die of food poisoning?

R296... i believe her last meal was a shrimp salad at Big Boy's and then she also stopped somewhere to pick up a taco that she later ate at her parent's home, before turning to bed upstairs and sadly so sadly not seen alive again....

[quote] shrimp salad

[quote] taco

Sounds like an amuse bouche to me

It doesn't sound like Karen to pick up a taco after dinner! Or to get a taco after a shrimp salad. What was up with that?

A girl's gotta eat!

Karen was eating again at the end, but it was much too late. She killer her heart with ipecac abuse and long-term starvation, not to mention whatever thyroid medication misuse did to her. It really was a slow suicide.

*killed her heart

[quote]It wasn’t Richard who was the bad guest, it was their mother who Carol said was the worst show business parent she’d ever come across.

Bullshit. That blind makes Richard seem really awful. Not only was he abusive to Karen, Carol thought he was on cocaine.

She could ban Agnes from the show because she wasn't part of the act.

Karen's interests, lifestyle, and relationships SCREAM desperate closeted lesbian. No wonder she could never come out, even to herself, probably. Can you imagine Agnes and Richard's reaction? She'd have been ostracized by her family for sure. And yes, as a famous millionaire she didn't need them materially, but emotionally she was totally dependent on them, even though their 'love' came a high price.

[quote]And yes, as a famous millionaire she didn't need them materially

But how much control did she really have over the money coming in?

Agnes will go down as the cuntiest cunt whoever cunted! Total cunt. I’m glad that I farted at her grave. I would have shit on it, but security cameras.

[quote]Karen's interests, lifestyle, and relationships SCREAM desperate closeted lesbian. No wonder she could never come out, even to herself, probably.

Not to mention her close friendship with Olivia Newton-Lesbian.

Here's her autopsy report. I'm surprised that her heart was listed as being normal. Also what's with the dried tea leaves found in her stomach?

Why does the autopsy mention so many syringe marks?

Was this a medication?

.......

"Shrimp salad and a taco? Hit the treadmill chubby!"

Wasn’t Karen using ipecac syrup again?

Karen's entry at Find a Death. There's an interesting quote from someone who grew up in Downey.

Ipecac syrup used regularly actually/allegedly eats away at heart muscle which of course weakens it, but yet in the autopsy it's stated her heart looked normal?

I also wonder if back then, if the bottle for ipecac syrup had this warning on their label and if not, why not? if it did, why didn't karen pay any attention to that?...

Karen weight 108 pounds at the time of her death, skinny for a 5'4 person but not deadly. The real damage was from ipecac abuse. She'd stopped taking it but had already damaged her heart. From the bio Little Girl Blue:

[quote]cause of death as “emetine cardiotoxicity due to or as a consequence of anorexia nervosa.” The anatomical summary listed pulmonary edema and congestion (usually caused by heart failure) first and anorexia second. Third was cachexia, which usually indicates extreme weight loss and an apparent lack of nutrition. The finding of emetine cardiotoxicity (ipecac poisoning) revealed that Karen had poisoned herself with ipecac syrup, a well-known emetic commonly recommended to induce vomiting in cases of overdose or poisoning. A letter detailing National Medical Services’s lab findings was composed March 23, 1983. After testing both blood and liver, it was determined that 0.48 micrograms/g emetine, “the major alkaloidal constituent of ipecac,” was present in the liver. “In the present case,” they explained, “the finding of 0.5 micrograms emetine/g, with none detected in the blood, is consistent with residua of the drug after relatively remote cessation of its chronic use."

*Karen weighed

[quote]I also wonder if back then, if the bottle for ipecac syrup had this warning on their label and if not, why not? if it did, why didn't karen pay any attention to that?

Seriously? She was anorexic. Ignoring common-sense advice about her health was a way of life for her.

Ipecac is no longer sold over the counter and is not recommended for cases of poisoning. It was widely available throughout Karen's lifetime, though.

The thyroid drugs she abused probably contributed to her early death, too. She was taking dozens of pills a day at one point.

OMG! Those comments at R314 about how she needed to be pounded by thug dick instead of her brother! Oy.

Yes, why did she have dried tea leaves in her stomach when she died? Was she eating loose leaf tea?

If you had a cup of tea and drank some of the leaves at the bottom, they might not be digested.

R296 Denny’s? Wasn’t it called Sambo’s back then?

R323 No, Sambo's was a separate chain altogether.

Not surprisingly, it's no longer in business.

Karen's weight gain at the end was only due to being in a hospital with an IV in her arm. Richard said they didn't find any "open" containers of ipecac in her condo. Her fried Itchy Ramone said she was taking 60-90 laxatives per night. Per night. She really needed psych meds.

[quote] Jesus, some damaged freaks post here.

Well, YOU post here so you're living proof of that!

Anyone abusing ipecac, thyroid pills, and laxatives to that extent wants to die. Plain and simple. It was good-girl Karen's way of offing herself without making it seem deliberate.

Richard said that Karen "loved tacos and chile." I guess she didn't love them enough.

Neither of the Carpenters were gay. No biography of them confirms that. I think, being as conservative as they were, they would be horrified at the gay rumors. In all likelihood they were both homophobic.

[quote]Richard said that Karen "loved tacos and chile."

Well, she certainly loved my taco!

Calling Occupants!

R330 Without a doubt, their worst song.

[quote] To hide that she wasn't eating Karen would rave about her meal and insist that others at the table had to try it. This would continue until Karen's plate was empty.

WHY would Karen be swallowing fistfuls of laxatives, and taking ipecac if she wasn't even eating? No wonder people were confused about anorexia in 1981.

Anorexics binge in private but can be phobic about eating in front of others.

Remember the TV movie where Meredith Baxter was anorexic? It was like a horror movie about food!

[quote]WHY would Karen be swallowing fistfuls of laxatives, and taking ipecac if she wasn't even eating?

Because even a taste would make her think she had eaten too much.

Kate was bulimic, R334. I had to watch that movie in junior high.

[quote] Without a doubt, their worst song.

I thought a lot of their songs, especially uptempo ones, were worse that that. I hated "Close To You", "There's A Kind of Hush", "Top of the World", "Sing", Please Mr. Postman" and "Merry Christmas, Darling" among others.

I agree r337. Karen was at her best singing the downbeat, depressing songs like Rainy Days and Mondays, Superstar and Goodbye To Love.

R337 Merry Christmas Darling was their first big Christmas song and a big hit. I remember buying the vinyl single (because it was so popular) and LOVE it! An iconic great!!!

[quote] Merry Christmas Darling was their first big Christmas song and a big hit. I remember buying the vinyl single (because it was so popular) and LOVE it! An iconic great!!!

Her singing in that song makes one think she's contemplating suicide. Or that she's on quaaludes.

The Karen Carpenter Story is worth watching. I saw it as a kid and it broke my heart.

Karen looks like a wraith in this video. I’m always shocked at how people’s bodies can survive as they eat their own muscle to keep the person alive (hopefully long enough to get more nutrients to go back to homeostasis of regular food intake).

All of you who allege she was closeted…beyond the friendship with OLivia NJ, what evidence do you have? I’m intrigued, but not sold on this idea yet.

I always thought the Sue Lawley interview in R12 came first, but now I see that was late October 1981. The GMA interview was in August. ISue was not comfortable with another softball interview and directly addressed the obvious decline in Karen’s health.

I love Carpenters Christmas music but Merry Christmas, Darla is absolutely dreadful.

^ Darling

I love MCD but this is my favorite Christmas recording by The Carpenters.

Cynthia Gibb would say that Richard's involvement ruined the experience for her and pretty much everyone else on the set. Because he had final approval, he went over everything with a fine tooth comb. He was particularly obsessed with how Louise Fletcher portrayed Agnes. That being said, the whole cast was baffled when Richard broke down after the family therapy "we don't hug in our family" scene, because he thought it was beautiful. Meanwhile, everyone else couldn't comprehend how Agnes could be so cold.

He even told Cynthia she had to lose weight because he wanted her to wear Karen's actual clothes, which she felt was creepy.

That being said, the Carpenters movie was a huge hit, and one of the most watched TV programs of all time when it aired. It singlehandedly revived interest in the Carpenters, which had been dormant since Karen's passing.

DL is going to have to make up its mind once and for all.

Richard Carpenter is a sister-fucking monster....

OR...

Richard Carpenter is a jizz-guzzling power bottom.

He cannot be both. He just can't.

Well, I guess technically he could, but the possibility is next to nil.

So which is it, DL?

R347, I think he's neither. He seems like an asexual, emotionally stunted man who would be happiest just playing his piano all day every day. He probably married his cousin because he was too timid to meet anyone new outside his family. Maybe he had sex with her just a few times because his domineering parents were demanding grandchildren from him, and of course, he had to do what they said.

What did Karen say about Richard dating their cousin? What did any of them say?

[quote]What did Karen say about Richard dating their cousin?

"No, thanks, I'm full."

[quote]What did Karen say about Richard dating their cousin?

"Maybe SHE would like to try my dinner entree! It is really yummy! I feel selfish keeping it all to myself. Here, you try it, too! And you. And you."

R338 and don't forget her favorite song 'Goodbye to Lunch'

[quote] "Maybe SHE would like to try my dinner entree! It is really yummy! I feel selfish keeping it all to myself. Here, you try it, too! And you. And you."

Woody Allen joked about all the exorbitant meals he'd buy for Diane Keaton that ended up in the toilet minutes later. He would have saved money dating Karen.

Richard’s not a gay.

The story about Karen getting rid of her food by raving about it and insisting other people eat it, only to be foiled by Agnes piling more food onto her plate, makes no sense.

The way it's described, they're all at a family dinner with everybody eating the same thing. Maybe she pulled the trick when eating in restaurants with Richard/the band, but then Agnes couldn't dump more food onto Karen's plate.

I'm guessing that she was just a regular anorexic who pushed the food around, cut it into tiny bits, and only ate about a tenth of what was on her plate. No need to be fancy.

Karen Carpenter sang "Ave Maria" in Latin beautifully. It's enough to make most anyone shed a tear. I prefer it to "Merry Christmas, Darling."

Back in my Elementary schoolgirl years the rumor was that Karen Carpenters had cancer. Such a thing we children thought quite innocently. I don't know what the grown adults thought back then or maybe I just don't remember. I was stupid and after Karen Carpenter died I thought that Anorexia Nervosa was a form of cancer until my parents told me different.

That poor lady, man. She couldn't catch a break and her own mother basically hated her.

I saw a documentary about the Carpenters. Richard apparently would memorize records when he was a wee child. He'd memorize the grooves in the records in regard to the tracks. This he did before he knew how to read. That's really fucking odd to me. The mother would clean the doorknobs and peephole to the front door back when they lived in Connecticut and one of Karen's former playmates thought that was weird as hell since it is you know. I think something bad must have occurred in Connecticut for them to have moved to L.A. for Richard's career because he could have just taken the train to NYC.

God knows what dark stuff is in that family. And, Richard Carpenter should not have married his cousin even if she could very well have been adopted because that's sick.

Karen would drink chicken broth and iced tea instead of eating.

From "Little Girl Blue":

[quote] As Mike Curb had witnessed a year earlier, friends and family began to notice extreme changes in Karen’s eating habits, despite her attempts at subtlety. She rearranged and pushed her food around the plate with a fork as she talked, which gave the appearance of eating. Another of her strategies involved offering samples of her food to others around the table. She would rave on and on about her delicious meal and then insist that everyone at the table try it for themselves. “Here, you have some,” she would say as she enthusiastically scooped heaps of her own meal onto others’ plates. “Would you like to taste this?” By the time dinner was over, Karen’s plate was clean, but she had dispersed her entire meal to everyone else. Agnes caught on to this ploy and began to do the same in return. “Well, this is good, too,” she would say as she put more food onto her daughter’s plate. This infuriated Karen, who realized she would have to find other ways to successfully avoid eating.

Richard with his wife/cousin and his kids

Here is "I Need To Be In Love," which Karen considered to be her favorite out of all of her songs.

according to the book "little girl blue',,, karen was upset and aghast that richard was going to marry his cousin, whether blood or not...

also, karen had already chosen baby names should she ever have kids that she desperately wanted. if she had a girl, it was going to be Kristy and a boy, of course, it was going to be Richard.

Yeah, that's healthy.

On the Carol Burnett Show

Fan gurl

[quote] DL is going to have to make up its mind once and for all. Richard Carpenter is a sister-fucking monster....OR...Richard Carpenter is a jizz-guzzling power bottom.

My vote is jizz whore power bottom. Was there a poll?

It was apparently the ipecac that did her in.

Agnes was truly a viscous miserable bitch. Did she not see that the more money Karen’s voice made, the better her (Agnes) life would be? I hate Agnes Carpenter for what she did to Karen.

In Agnes's mind Richard should have been the star. She once told Karen that Richard a real musician and she couldn't possibly understand his genius.

R363, thank you! I love that clip!

Karen seemed happiest when she was behind the drums.

Olivia, Tina, Karen, and Toni from Olivia's "Hollywood Nights", 1980:

It’s weird how Karen just pops up out of nowhere in the middle of that performance ^.

Carol Burnet was as skinny as Karen when they sang trio in that clip with Richard, yet Carol wasn't anorexic, was she? Was Carol naturally skinny?

I think Karen and olivia bumped pussies.

Richard released an album Friday of piano versions of their hits. I listened to a sample on Itunes. It’s sleep inducing!

I agree R107. Never understood the appeal.

[quote]an album of piano versions of their hits

Another one? He's grasping at straws.

Thanks for that! I’d never believe Karen Carpenter ever met Tina, let alone that they sang on stage together.

R370 Who's the black girl in that clip? Peaches?

A still unreleased track recorded during her solo sessions.

OMG! What the fuck is that? Horrible. No wonder the execs and Richard hated her solo effort. Beyond terrible.

Wow that is bad.

It reminds me of a 1980s era old person's attempt to do a contemporary song - like the way those Henry Mancini songs you'd hear in a Pink Panther movie try to sound contemporary.

Karen's solo album only had a couple of good songs, her cover of Still Crazy After All These Years was one of them.

I don't think that the song at R379 is that bad. It sounds dated, but that disco-jazz r&b sound was popular in the late 70s and early 80s.

Karen should have dumped Richard and teamed up with Christopher Cross.

Great idea. Team up an anorexic with a fat ass.

So edgy to declare your disdain for the Carpenters. Such an outlier opinion. So bold. Fascinating... (eye roll)

They really did her dirty on that CD cover.

other songs on Karen's solo album that i thought were good and possible hits were "if i had you" and "if we try"

I do believe the ONLY way that karen or her brother were going to have success in the 1980s on the adult contemporary charts was for either karen to go solo and get new outside producers, arrangers and songwriters or staying in the duo and richard getting said outside help...

on the last carpenter's album that was put out shortly after karen's passing "voice of the heart" besides the incredible "NOW" and "make believe it's your first time" and "your baby doesn't love you anymore", the rest of the album was junk and richard was putting in o.k. choral choruses and cheesy syrupy instrumentals. stuff that was bad and dated EVEN BEFORE they hit it big in the early 70s.... TOTAL Lawrence Welk stuff! elevator music! what was he thinking??..

As a 90s kid the first time I ever heard about Karen Carpenter in detail - beyond having heard Top Of The World and Close To You on the oldies station - was in the novel Veronica by Mary Gaitskill:

[quote] When John took those naked pictures, the most popular singer was a girl with a tiny stick body and a large deferential head, who sang in a delicious lilt of white lace and promises and longing to be close. When she shut herself up in her closet and starved herself to death, people were shocked. But starvation was in her voice all along. That was the poignancy of it. A sweet voice locked in a dark place, but focused entirely on the tiny strip of light coming under the door.

R388 - The overuse of the O.K. Choral on "Voice of the Heart" was not Richard's first choice. The original intent was the backing vocals to be the classic Carpenters sound of Karen's and Richard's harmonizing voices layered over multiple recordings. The Powers That Be (Were?) at A&M at that moment (Alpert and Moss actually were less and less hands on at that point.) put pressure on Richard to rush production on the album in order to capitalize on Karen's death. He couldn't complete the backing vocals himself, so he substituted the chorus on the backing vocals. Going back to work was Richard's way of dealing with his grief. This rushed production also resulted in several unused completed tracks recorded for "Made in America" to be put into service to flesh out "Voice of the Heart". Also, a few of the tracks while intended for inclusion on "Voice" are what Richard called "work leads". Karen would go in, sing the song according to what she heard in her mind, then Richard would build the accompaniment and backing vocals around it. Once that was completed, Karen would re-record her lead in a more polished sound. It's a testament to her that these vocals- although considered throw aways and not professional in her opinion- sound better than any of the "world class voices" which have sprung up since her passing.

"Now" is one of those work leads and has the distinction of being Karen's final recorded performance, from April of 1982.

Looking a little porky today, Karen! Oink oink!

R390 - there's a recording of the group doing Trying to Get The Feeling Again on one of their hits collections, and it's one of those "work leads" you're talking about.

At one point in the song, you can hear the sound of Karen turning the page of the sheet music.

R390... okay, but why use ANY chorus? I would prefer to have heard just music and no harmonies of richard with karen, then hearing some choral chorus....can't believe alpert and moss thought some chorus was needed and sounded good?!

other songs on that "voice of the heart" album besides bad instrumentation the lyrics of the songs were bad. example "prime time love"? "sailing on the tide", "look to your dreams"...WTF.....

They should have simply used the few good songs on there and then add in perhaps live in concert recording of their classics. I wonder if there was a issue with using the good songs with karen's solo album on voice of the heart? like "if i had you" and "if we try"....they included "ordinary fool" which was a recorded song from years ago? SO why did they include that long ago recorded song, but crap like the songs they included? Sounds like it was rush rush and no quality was given a second thought?...

I found the bad taste of all involved to rush a album and include such bad "work lead" songs to fill up a album amazing instead of gosh knows what else could have been included instead..

Sailing on the Tide was the flip side of Goodbye to Love.

The Matt Pop Carpenters remixes are brilliant.

Just perfect.

I'm not too crazy about this one, but "We've Only Just Begun" is not one of my Carpenters faves.

R396 I love it!!!!

Sure, they were a “joke” to many, but no less than Ella Fitzgerald said at the height of their popularity that if you didn’t love Karen’s voice you just didn’t like popular music.

“Ordinary Fool” is the best track from “Voices Of The Heart” in my opinion. It was recorded in 1976 to be included on the “A Kind of Hush” album but didn’t make the cut.

She looks completely unrecognizable in this bit of age-progression (starting at 6:05).

The song at R397 is sublime, especially at the 2:24 mark. Listen with headphones.

Michael Jackson looks like Michael Myers!

R403, he looks more like Liza in this one (starting at 7:13).

Karen Carpenter seemed to be stuck at the age of 14. She collected stuffed animals and Mickey Mouse memorabilia. This is from an article about the Carpenters and that doomed solo album of her:

Karen Ichiuji, Phil Ramone's wife and a glamorous, street-smart singer, became Karen Carpenter's cultural compass.

"This really was the girl next door," Ichiuji says. "She didn't know how to hail a cab, wasn't comfortable even ordering for herself in restaurants."

Karen encouraged glam photo sessions for the album cover. When she saw the proofs of one shot, which showed her elegantly coiffed and made up and wearing an oversize white sweat shirt -- a precursor of the "Flashdance" look -- she ran to Ichiuji in a rare outburst of self-worth.

"Look at me, Itch," she said. "I'm pretty. I'm really pretty."

"Look at me! I'm pretty, I'm really pretty!" Jesus Christ, what grown woman (she was in her 30s) talks like THAT? I guess she remained "the girl next door" type until she died, perpetually stuck in teenybopper mode.

Of course she was emotionally stunted with a family like that. The only way she'd have gotten out of her parents' vise grip is if she'd found a smart, savvy, somewhat ruthless husband early on who had Karen's best interests at heart. But how would a man like that even have gotten his foot in the door with Agnes controlling Karen's every move? She was doomed.

[quote] Karen Ichiuji, Phil Ramone's wife and a glamorous, street-smart singer, became Karen Carpenter's cultural compass.

Karen "Kamon" from the Flashdance soundtrack:

They recorded a lot of songs that became big hits later for others....like Manilow's "Can't Smile Without You" and "Tryin To Get The Feeling Again", George Benson's "This Masquerade" and Anne Murray's "I Just Fall In Love Again". They should have released these songs as singles instead of awful tracks like "Goofus".

Two album cuts I really liked were "Let Me Be The One" and "Baby It's You".

Let's not forget Richards' solo album. He worked very hard on it.

An underrated gem

B'wana

All I Can Do

She never stood a chance with that cunt of a mother.

OP, "If you see something, say something" wasn't a thing until 2001.

[quote]"She didn't know how to hail a cab, wasn't comfortable even ordering for herself in restaurants."

Yes, but not for the reason you think.

[quote]An underrated gem

And if by that you mean hilarious crap, yes.

She wasn't anorexic. She just hit a gypsy's daughter with her car.

Do you think that if Karen had lived she would be selling stuff on QVC?

Karen seems happiest at Disneyland, check out her joy at 1:05 when riding the Mad Tea Cups and the Dumbo ride.

Did she have her own parking spot at Disney?

R419, surprised that song was a number one song for them, but not We've Only Just Begun or Superstar.

Disneyland had some fantastic all-you-can-eat character buffets. Why didn't anyone buy Karen a Disney annual park pass ?

It looks like Olivia is auctioning some of her stuff. Her Carpenters albums have already sold.

Oh no! The end must be near for Olivia. She’ll be reunited with Karen.

I’ve never witnessed a lesbian vibe from ONJ. Am I confused? I always believed KC was obsessed by her ultra-femininity.

Bless your heart, R426.

Well, R426, you are quite self referential.

No offense to her fans, but this woman has the most mediocre voice I have ever heard. My sister sounds better when she sings in the passenger seat of my car.

And what do you think of Vanity's voice?

Karen was an angel. She had a fucking cunt as a mother.

Karen’s voice peaked with the Horizon album, IMO.

Her voice is so compelling because it is warm and intimate, with empathy. She was not a belter but had the perfect tone in the right context. Richard overproduced her most of the time and she still shone through. It wouldn’t have worked for the time, but a solo album of her voice stripped down would have been interesting.

So effervescent. So charismatic.

If Miss Warwick is a 40 ounce, Karen is skim milk.

It's a shame Karen never did any recorded duets. I can think of several male vocalists her voice would have blended well with.

I really enjoy her duet with Ella Fitzgerald.

Here she is with John Denver.

With John Davidson.

Another one.

From the personal journals of Karen -- recently discovered alternate lyrics to "Rainy Days and Mondays"

Throwing up my food and feeling sick Sometimes I'd like to quit Now my clothes don't seem to fit Hanging around, face is a haggard frown Grainy maize on Mondays -- I can't keep it down.

God, those tv specials they did would cause diabetes.

Is John Davidson a homo?

John Davidson is 1000 years old. Who the fuck cares?

John Davidson is still handsome and still has that full head of hair, he is also a avowed atheist...

R444 If he's an atheist, I like him even more.

He was a huge crush of mine when I was a very young gayling.

Davidson is not now and never was a homo.

Years ago an article stated that Karen Carpenter read a review of a Carpenters show and the journalist referred to her as the "chubby girl singer." It sparked off a terrible reaction in her and started her off on that doomed road of anorexia. And she wasn't chubby in the first place!!!

Here she is singing with Captain & Tennille and Ben Vereen.

Karen seems so fit and healthy in that it clip. It appears to be from ABC's Silver Anniversary Special, which aired January 31, 1978.

The parallels between the Carpenters and Captain and Tennille are uncanny. Both were duos at A&M records that specialized in middle-of-the-road pop. Both were duos featuring a female vocalist backed by a keyboard-playing arranger who mostly stayed in the background. Both had No. 1 songs in 1975 (Please Mr. Postman and Love Will Keep Us Together).

If Karen had been mentally healthy, one bitchy comment from a journalist wouldn't have turned her anorexic. The seeds of her self-destruction were planted in childhood.

It was her cunt mother and her asshole brother who were nothing but critical and short-tempered with her that had a lot to do with Karen's anorexia.

I’m thinking it was Karen’s own obsession with her brother, not an incest thing on his part. He may have been the only family member who paid attention to her.

She did have big childbearing hips though.

She was a cute, pear-shaped woman. Nothing wrong with that. If she'd had healthy self-esteem, she'd have told her family and the press to fuck off. Of course, with that family, healthy self-esteem was never possible.

As a kid, I did think she was older than my parents who were both born in 1940 ( 10 years before her). Meh she died. Lena Zavaroni made anorexia a big issue in the UK, same age as me bratty loud singer and then she was this awful tragic figure.

[quote] She was a cute, pear-shaped woman.

She wasn't "cute." She was very plain. I think she was self conscious about they way she looked even before some reviewer called her "chubby."

Karen was always insecure about her looks and she felt unattractive compared to other women in the music biz at time like Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris and her friend ONJ, who were all genuinely attractive women.

Intermission.

OMG, EmmyLou Harris was an absolute dog, and that greasy stringy straight hair makes me gag.

Emmylou Harris was quite pretty

R429, no idea what you mean. I was not saying she had a vain voice. Just...average. My sister sounds better.

[quote] , EmmyLou Harris was an absolute dog, and that greasy stringy straight hair makes me gag.

You're blind. She was beautiful. And still is a very attractive woman.

I found the perfect shirt for you bitches.

Karen died on February 4, 1983.

Someone who loved Karen Carpenter was Miss Warwick.

PEOPLE magazine did a nice article on Karen on what would've been her 70th birthday.

39 years ago.

[quote]Karen died on February 4, 1983.

Hard to believe it's been 39 years.

R466 Then why did that bitch just walk on by, when poor Karen needed help?

Karen had alot of female singer friends,.. olivia, dionne and petula clark to name a few...

for those who have never seen or watched petula clark's tribute to karen literally only a day or two after karen's passing, by singing the song "for all we know" in concert on youtube. YOU HAVE to see it!... beyond beautiful and so so sad and touching....

Don't know how Petula got thru it quite frankly...

Here is the performance that R471 is talking about.

Did she chose that song as a “we really don’t really ever know anything about another person and what they’re going through” meaning?

This is the band that Richard's son sings in.

I'm really creeped out that Richard married his first cousin. That's just fucking gross.

[quote]I'm really creeped out that Richard married his first cousin. That's just fucking gross.

In his defense, Karen was no longer available.

R475.. well at least she wasn't his BIOLOGICAL BLOOD first cousin.. in the latest autobiography of karen carpenter, she was opposed to this, way to go Karen..

Even though the cousin was adopted, it's still creepy. I believe she was also quite a few years younger than Richard, too.

Petula's tribute to Karen at R472 was lovely and heartfelt.

Karen should've told her cunt of a mother to go fuck herself, and gotten out from under her influence.

She looks sick and horrible in that video.

Such a beautiful voice. What a disastrous self image and the consequences from it.

Here is "Now." The final song that Karen recorded.

Anyone know how Karen is remembered in the "Friends of Ana" community? I'm curious if she's treated as a goddess, or a cautionary tale.

Quite good.

Really?!

Here she is being interviewed with her husband and her brother.

I recently learned they hosted a variety show in 1971 called Make Your own kind of Music. It looks like it was a summer replacement series. Some kind of alphabet theme each week. Was watching the Carpenters highlights uploaded on YouTube. They sang live when covering other songs. The video quality isn’t great but it’s a fun relic.

Karen singing ABBA!

Olivia, Helen Reddy and Barbra should have all retired and let Karen have their careers.

That would be an interesting poll. Which easy-listening female vocalist of the Seventies was your favorite? A lot of good choices.

I wish that some interviewer could get Richard to open up about why Agnes was such a cunt to Karen.

In the video at R486 Karen's husband looks like an older, heavier version of her brother! She really married someone who reminded her of Richard!

Just looking at her husband gives me the creeps. What possessed her to marry him? Couldn't she have done than that loser?

Sad.

R493... she was desperate for love and affection and to get some form of independence from her family and felt that at her age, the clock was ticking to be wife and mother... Sad because she found out right before the marriage that he had had a vasectomy without telling her until the last minute, cried her heart out to her mother because of this betrayal and she wanted kids more than anything and her mother told her she HAD to go thru with the wedding because it was already planned, people magazine was going to be there and it would make everyone look bad if she cancelled at the last minute... Perhaps Karen also went thru with it, because she figured that perhaps his vasectomy could be reversed?.... Also Karen falsely believed that he was wealthy and had his own money so he wasn't going to Use her... WHICH of course he did because he lied about his personal wealth too!....

That fucking cunt Agnes had better be burning in hell!!!!

[quote] she was desperate for love and affection and to get some form of independence from her family and felt that at her age, the clock was ticking to be wife and mother

Maybe so. But of all the men in the world she marries THAT one? Talk about bad judgement. At any rate, she could have independence without being married to someone. She was a rich, famous pop star; she could go anywhere she wanted, do anything she wanted. And she was still quite young; I don't why she thought she needed to rush into marriage in order to have kids.

Some of you are alleging that she was emotionally stunted/immature with the Disney love. Was she as immature when it came to relationships and planning out her life?

[quote]And she was still quite young; I don't why she thought she needed to rush into marriage in order to have kids.

Different times back then. Most women got married and had kids in their 20s. Today, only religious nuts and third worlders do that.

Karen had a cute little bod before she started starving herself. Add her fame and money on top, and she could have pulled a quality trophy husband. Her problem was wanting a man who was her 'equal.' Most men of her equal fame in the entertainment world wanted gorgeous trophy wives of their own, not a plainish woman who would also compete with them for attention.

Karen's real issue was that she never jettisoned her adolescent middle-class values and really lived her life like a rich and powerful woman should. If she had, she'd have been a lot happier.

Yes R499 is right! Different times. In our time, we look at Karen as someone who had it all--success, fame, money, talent--and should have been among the freest of people due to that. In her time and the way she was raised, a woman wasn't considered mature or successful unless married and having children. Karen had to marry to break away from her parents' home and her brother's influence through marriage, but sadly, being raised by hateful conservatives, she was part of a negative cycle and married a hateful man.

That's the sad thing about Karen. She was the vocalist and the star. She could have walked away from her shitty parents and controlling brother at any point and worked with other producers and arrangers. She'd have probably done really well with the AOR sound in the late 70s and 80s. But she was so psychologically beaten down and emotionally stunted that she just couldn't.

Did any of the biographies talk about Karen and her hubby's sex life? Wonder if either of them were satisfied.

R502, I'm not sure about that. Her solo album with Billy Joel's producer Phil Ramone wasn't really that great. They needed to stay away from that OK Chorale stuff that infected every Carpenters album after the wonderful "Passage". Their only top 20 song of the Eighties (Touch Me When We're Dancing) was a step in the right direction.

Who would've been a good fit as a producer for a solo Karen Carpenter album?

[quote] Did any of the biographies talk about Karen and her hubby's sex life?

I doubt that they had one. He didn't seem like he was really that much into women.

R504... karen should have hooked up with producers for dionne warwick and others who WERE having hits in the early to mid 1980s on adult contemporary radio... then again, perhaps karen and dionne being good friends, it would be like competing with your friend for the best work...

R505.. well tom burris, DID remarry and had a son, and I believe got into real estate but lives a very very private life, very difficult to find anything on him...

I don't think Karen was lesbian or straight, I think she was asexual. I don't get any sexual vibrations from her, period. She was probably too reserved to even masturbate. It's kind of ironic because so many of their songs were about falling in/falling out/falling back into love and she never really experienced any of it. When I hear her recording of "The Rainbow Connection" I hear haunting, poignant, child-like yearnings of someone on another plane.

[quote] I don't think Karen was lesbian or straight, I think she was asexual.

Both Karen and Richard seemed without sexuality. Ant that was their image. Squeaky clean, G-rated. Boring, sexless. That role seemed perfect for them. They both seemed very sexually repressed.

R507 I think you're correct about Karen being asexual and without sexual desire. For medical reasons, this is likely very accurate. Women who become anorexic to the level of Karen stop having their periods and their sex drive goes away. Anorexia eventually affects the hormones as well as sexual function, development, and sex drive. Essentially, when the female body starts dying due to lack of nutrients, the body knows it is dying and cannot support a pregnancy or feed a child, so the sexual desire dies with hormones as the female organs stop functioning.

Karen's sexuality appeared to be that of a fourteen-year-old girl, moony and romantic. It likely explains why she went for a man who presented himself as Prince Charming--but was really a conman--rather than seeking out an adult relationship with a flawed but decent person.

R510.. perhaps but Karen had had a number of relationships that didn't work out and Burris being the con man he was was very good at conning....

Karen Carpenter was BORING as fuck. A literal Karen. A republican. There was a beautiful clarity and tone to her voice but not an iota of inflection or soul. She just had sad tonality that people projected deeper meaning too. Bland and boring as Fuck. The Carpenters. I wasn't even born when they were popular. They had 4 good songs in their career. All ballads. Nothing has changed just cuz she wouldn't eat.

r512 is the ancient white fags troll. Insane as usual. It's best to ignore him.

R512 speaks truth about her voice. Karen was aptly named. She WAS a Karen.

We're not all 80 year old white men on this site.

R513 is abusive. May jesus visit healing to his troubled mind this night.🙏🏾🙏🏾

R512... karen carpenter had no inflection? HUH? What because she didn't use runs and vocal gymnastics? She actually had incredible inflection to go with the clarity and tone, she put emphasis on every word for every song unlike most singers and was a master storyteller, that is what makes her a great vocalist as opposed to a singer.

Your post matches well with ALL your racist comments about the Superbowl Hip Hop half-time show R515. You have a very OLD and extremely whitebread idea of what music is.

Karen had a beautiful voice and I found it moving and evocative. She had a great voice that was beautifully produced and presented. She is not an important singer. There IS a difference. No one said anything about vocal gynastics. She was very basic.

R516.. R515 here.. "my racist comments about the superbowl? what are you talking about? Sorry to tell you, all music critics, historians, singers and vocalist for the past decades agree with me, NOT you on karen carpenter. "not a important singer"? DO tell what a "important singer" is?...

Oh and for my taste in music, i love every decade and almost every genre except rap and modern country music, I can listen to the carpenters to led zeppelin to sade to patsy cline to the stylistics to the doors to madonna to the mama and the papas to green day to nat king cole and on and on... So i'm pretty sure my taste is quite varied thank you!...

She is still hideously fat in that interview. Good she tried to stay thin.

Did R517 die in 1984? That's quite an Oldie's Play List. Sade! Is she your affirmative action contribution? She's dental surgery music. Or what they play when white people dine at the beach. All inclusive.

And to compare classic 90s rap to modern country demonstrates what you don't know about the making of music or the elements of style. Karen lacked style. She was not good enough to be classic, but too dorky to be progressive.

Like who you like. Led Zeppelin? I bet you post the Heart version of Stairway to Heaven, every chance you get. jaysus

Get jiggy with it Gramps.

r515/r517 don't respond to that poster. He is one of the most loathsome trolls on this site and needs to die in a grease fire. Just put him on ignore.

R519 Yes, it is hilarious what the dino-gays consider to be hip. More like "oops I broke my hip" music. Puke.

R519! I AM OLD... Could I say that YOU are age discriminatory and a hypocrite in that YOU don't listen to anything other than what is current today? pot calling the kettle black..

R521 and you'll be a dino someday as well....

R520, is that how it works? when someone defends their stance and does NOT use name calling they're a troll?...

Hey DLers. Most of the Carpenter's hits have more than 44 Million hits on YouTube. I ask you to find any other team as popular. At least for a period as short as theirs.

I skated to their hits at the rink. But weirdly, my boomer dad commented how beautiful her voice and phrasing was.Ans all he ever did was rave about Sinatra and maybe Peggy Lee. A big deal as we agreed on nothing.

Karen is a gem. Richard did a good job arranging. They made a purely American sound that the rest of the world worked hard to emulate.

Listening now. Hard not to sing along.

Here is a link to a live performance that captures their magic. And it was magic.

The Bee Gees and Christopher Cross would’ve been good producers for Karen in the 80s. And probably Barry Manilow. And Cyndi Lauper writing songs for her. And Lionel Richie.

Karen was not FUN. How sad is your list R525?

The Bee Gees created some great records - even with Kenny and Dolly. Karen Carpenter in her only solo outing made a truly terrible and tasteless record. She knew nothing about music. She was robotic. And her non basement notes were weak and wispy. Though she had a pretty belting mid range that we all know. Hurting Each Other. A beautiful voice and pretty and always correct with intonation. But let's not talk about her "range." She was kind of useless without Richard. And HE both discovered and destroyed who she might have been.

Madonna is basically a smarter Karen. They both have that basic tone but know how to emote and have no range.

r526/527 are the same ancient white fags troll. He hates every white female singer. He's basically useless and a nuisance.

Wouldn't it be funny if they had put her in a cooking segment?

R526 you seem unable to appreciate this artist. That's ok. Just go on another thread, ok?

r 526 couldn't be more wrong. What a fucking loser.

Karen had a 3 octave and according to biographer ray coleman a 4 octave range...

on her solo album she purposely tried to sing and to sound "lighter" (ala olivia newton john) on some of the songs, trying to emulate Olivia's current success at the time and to reach the audience at that time...

Too many of you posting are confusing range with being a loud belter (ronstadt), a loud caterwaller (franklin), vocal gymnastics (carey), listen to what I can do I get off on hearing myself sing ( houston) and american idol "range" talent...

Oh dear. Imagine thinking that Miss Carpenter has range on par with the Aretha’s, Whitney’s, etc.

Then again, there are people in the world who call Brandy the Vocal Bible.

Clutches pearls.

She was no Dinah Shore

R529: "After the break, Julia Child joins us in the kitchen to whip up a batch of Karen's signature cocktail: ice water garnished with a celery twist!"

I loved her very first sort-of hit, a remake of the Beatles "Ticket To Ride", done as a ballad. I remember Paul McCartney saying how good he thought it was. Actually, the more I think of it, the stuff on their earlier albums were more enjoyable. Check out the remake of "Baby It's You" on the Close To You album. Really, really good.

Paul McCartney sucks ass. And sucks up to the press in his dotage. His ego is HUGE.

BUT - John Lennon famously stopped Karen outside a Los Angeles restaurant and said - "I just wanted to say that I love your voice, Love." Karen was with her manager that night and this story is famously true. And obviously before 1981.

R526 = Richard

Here is a clip of Karen singing in the kitchen.

* Correction. She's lip syncing in the kitchen, R539. The Carpenters lip synced more than any other performers of their time. Once Karen was out from behind the drums - game over. Yes, they performed many concerts and did the Johnny Carson show. With less voice than people expected. Karen could pinch off a note or lose her legato. Not often. But for the last 7 years of their career did she ever sing *LIVE*? Bitch was weak.

Karen lip synced a medley/duet with the GREAT Ella Fitzgerald on a TV special while ELLA sang it LIVE!! How insecure is that? That's how great a "vocalist" Karen Carpenter was. She was a mike singer and a studio artist. She certainly knew how to sing - but her particular vocal production was weak outside the studio. Everyone knows this. Her control freak freaky brother ruined any chance she had of being a comfortable person on stage. Her voice does not have quite the same depth when she sings live - though she still has the same great clarity and tone. Richard Carpenter used to double, triple, Quad her vocals and then do it again. Over and over. He jerked off to his own drum in the studio. Just to get that signature sound. Too bad - because Karen sang just fine on her own. He built a legend around her voice - but she had to die first.

He's still jerkin off in a studio over some ancient syrup song of theirs as I type this.....

This is the real sound of Carpenters. Pretty Great. Musicians and singers and harmonics. But kind of collegiate. Free summer concert fare. The audience was not overly enthused. They needed all the studio help they could get. Not because they couldn't sing. But because they were dull performers who were hung up on bland vocal and physical perfection. See where that got you Karen? Dead. And insulting the greatest vocalist of them all - Ella.

r540 you don't know shit and you forgot your trademark "ancient white fags" in your post. For someone who is allegedly educated in music your actual knowledge is appalling.

Karen usually sang live in concert, this has been well-documented.

You're especially stupid R541. And very old.

Kelly Clarkson sang this live on a Monday morning. Wtf!?! She's the best vocalist in the game. In most any genre. She gives a master class everyday to other people's songs. A great singer sings better LIVE. It's an emotional communication. As Whitney, Aretha, Kelly, Ella, Billie, Sarah, Annie Lennox, Beth Hart and Gladys Knight prove, erryday.

There are hundreds of better female singers than Karen Carpenter - all of them famous. Some old men just can't let go of their tears or the constant victim hood of long ago youth. Oh Karen sang live? No. Not if they could get away without doing it. She hated performing. And eating. She did like recording. Karen Carpenter was a victim - but to be honest their music is not memorable enough for anyone to mourn. She brought nothing to a live performance but bad fashion and X-Lax.

Karen had a very pretty recorded voice and 4 good songs. RIP.

Kelly Clarkson is her dead nane. She is Kelly Brianne now.

r543 again you prove how ignorant you are. Karen Carpenter is widely regarded as one of the greatest female vocalists of the 20th Century. She and Richard took great effort to reproduce their studio sound in live performances, they were famous for doing this. Their songs have stood the test of time and are still well-known 50 years later. Honestly, you're just an idiot troll.

Agnes Cuntenter was the cuntiest cunt who ever cunted!

Carpenters were musical robots and emotional morons. This is how Richard answered the question about Ella Fitzgerald:

[quote]Was Karen not comfortable singing with ELLA on the soundstage for the MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC special, and so that is why she recorded her vocals in the studio, or was she not feeling she would sing well LIVE with all these newer songs to her? What did you and Karen think of working with Ella?

[quote]Ella, Perry, Sinatra, the old school singers, were never really asked to lip-sync, you just didn’t do that back then, and as a result they would not do it, were not comfortable with it, and would always sing live. Karen and I, being raised more as a record act, were very comfortable with recording and lip-syncing. We could listen to what we recorded then lip-sync it perfectly. Since we could do that we always preferred studio sound over live television sound; the sound was better to begin with, the microphones were better in the studio, and we mixed it the way we wanted it, having complete control over it in the studio. Then we would lip-sync it. It had nothing to do with being uncomfortable. Ella was fine to work with, and very sweet.

Jesus fucking Christ. They didn't deserve to be in the same room with Ella Fitzgerald - never mind PRETEND to sing with her.

This is why the Carpenters were jokes. Aside from a couple of Karen's most beautiful vocals - they still are.

Keep beating that drum ancient white fags troll. But you're wrong. The Carpenters are respected as masterful creators of pop music and their songs have stood the test of time. Lip syncing on a set for a tv broadcast is pretty standard for performers. They all did it on Soul Train and American Bandstand, and also on variety specials and talk shows.

For some reason the troll has a real hate hard-on for Karen Carpenter. How odd. But his mind is very addled.

Just terrible and tasteless. Cheesy bad singing too. Yikes.

Somebody once said that when Ella Fitzgerald sang she sounded like she was looking for something at the bottom of her purse and that's all I can think about when I hear her. Not that she wasn't a good singer, it's just that mental image always appears.

Karen's vocal on Still Crazy After All These Years has a great sense of languidness and louche detachment that's perfect for the lyrics.

Karen Carpenter was not one of the world's best vocalists and is on no such lists. Ella is number one, two or three on ALL of them.

Carpenter's singing has attracted critical praise and influenced several significant musicians and singers, including Madonna, Sheryl Crow, Pat Metheny, Sonic Youth's Kim Gordon, Shania Twain, Natalie Imbruglia, and k.d. lang.[4][95] Paul McCartney has said that she had "the best female voice in the world: melodic, tuneful and distinctive".[66] She has been called "one of the greatest voices of our lifetime" by Elton John.[1] In the BBC documentary Only Yesterday: The Carpenters Story, her friend Nicky Chinn said that John Lennon walked up to her at a Los Angeles restaurant and told her "I want to tell you love, that you've got a fabulous voice." Her drumming has been praised by fellow musicians Hal Blaine, Cubby O'Brien and Buddy Rich[96] and by Modern Drummer magazine. In 1975, she was voted the best rock drummer in a poll of Playboy readers, beating Led Zeppelin's John Bonham.[4]

In 2010, Rolling Stone ranked Carpenter No. 94 on its list of the 100 Greatest Singers of All Time, calling her voice "impossibly lush and almost shockingly intimate", adding "even the sappiest songs sound like she was staring directly into your eyes".[1]

LAME

She's not playing the drums OR singing. The clothes are hideous and the background Waaah,aaah aah waahs are puerile. Karen was not as pretty as Richard, as their Mom would often say.

Her voice was sometimes haunting on record. But the arrangements most often ruin it on everything but This Masquerade and Rainy Days and Mondays. Karen was a homely chick with a California accent when she sang and a bit of a lisp. Zero charisma, no movement, emotion, sex or charm. She liked Rita Coolidge and Perry Como. EEK! They don't come any whiter than the Carpenters. This is just A record being played. Not even a fresh prerecord.

Don't say that's what everyone did. Real singers most often sang. Even on variety shows. And you know it. The Carpenters were a processed cheese product. Karen doesn't appear to feel anything. The quality of her voice just lent itself to sad ballads and big hips. That's why she sat behind the drums. Later came the HOOP skirts. Richard designed them.

God what a tedious troll you are r557. Again your apparent musical education was a waste of time and money because your actual knowledge of music and singing is severely lacking. I mean, you actually praise Beyonce and Taylor Swift, of all people, as examples of great singing and talent. It's clear you know nothing and have a serious lack of taste.

[quote]Don't say that's what everyone did. Real singers most often sang. Even on variety shows. And you know it.

False. Prerecorded vocals were the norm on lots of variety shows and definitely Soul Train and American Bandstand.

Much like yourself R559, Karen Carpenter was non eventful in person and totally lacking sex appeal or presence. Though I am sure you are at least 15 years older than she would be, if she ate. The Carpenters were also delusional about their importance and defensive about their lack of stature. I see why you identify with them.

You are welcome to learn all you can from my posts. They are free here. But watch your mouth with me. 85 year old men are not exempt from retribution.

Insanity isn't becoming r560. I'm actually a contemporary of yours, is your 1983 birthdate is accurate.

[quote] The Carpenters were also delusional about their importance and defensive about their lack of stature.

Actually, you're wrong again. They let the criticisms slide and had a pretty good attitude about their place in the music world. Since they're still well-known and their catalog still sells 50 years later, they've obviously stood the test of time. There actually more revered and respected now than they were back then. Two things you'll never be, btw. But you already know that.

[quote]You are welcome to learn all you can from my posts.

But there's nothing to learn. You're insane and a total fucking loser bitch.

They would have had hits well into the '80s.

Not on the pop charts—although they would have crossed over occasionally—but as Adult Contemporary. That was a huge radio format through the '80s (inc. smooth jazz). Banks, lobbies, and elevators needed something to play. Gawd, those commercials haunted my childhood and dictated my parents' listening habits.

I remember my mother playing Julio Iglesias's album like every night in 1984-85. That's the spot they would have hit. Collaborations with country artists, etc.

Why are you so obsessed with me R563? I'll never give it to you. You can't afford a hour of my expertise. You weren't born in 1983. You turned 42 in 1983. Change your diaper Karen. Night Nana.

Particularly in the video at R75, Richard reminds me of my favorite straight porn star from the golden age, Kevin James (who was doomed to die young, just like Karen).

Man, that guy had the most perfect body and cock.

But I digress!

r564 is correct. The Carpenters would've ridden the Adult Contemporary wave that was huge in the 80s.

Karen should a run away from home and joined the Osmond family

David Foster or Arif Mardin would have been great producers for Karen. She would have excelled with material like Wind Beneath My Wings.

Girl, R540 etc. is outta control! She unhinged! F&F and block her destabilizing ass!

I think Karen's fans would have enjoyed hearing her on the big charity singles in the 80s.

Dionne's AIDS single "That's That Friends Are For" was a huge hit, as well as USA for Africa.

[quote] again you prove how ignorant you are. Karen Carpenter is widely regarded as one of the greatest female vocalists of the 20th Century. She and Richard took great effort to reproduce their studio sound in live performances, they were famous for doing this. Their songs have stood the test of time and are still well-known 50 years later. Honestly, you're just an idiot troll.

Actually, you sound like the idiot troll. A nutty troll.

Some people just prefer Cheese Whiz to Camembert.

[quote] Their strength was Karen's melancholy songs sung in low alto. When they veered from that it was treacly.

That is true. Their best songs were when Karen was mournfully singing songs about feeling old and being alone and pining for love. She sounded ridiculous singing up tempo numbers.

[quote] I think Karen's fans would have enjoyed hearing her on the big charity singles in the 80s. Dionne's AIDS single "That's That Friends Are For" was a huge hit, as well as USA for Africa.

That would have been an interesting twist. A charity song performed to help people who are starving, sung in part by a woman who was literally starving.

And another done for the benefit of people who were wasting away, featuring somebody who was also wasting away.

She could have sang on the records, AND received some of the benefit money!

Looks like the ancient white fags troll just got off his shift at Popeye's.

George Carlin had little sympathy for anorexics:

[quote] Looks like the ancient white fags troll just got off his shift at Popeye's.

She can continue posting here. Karen fans, head over to the new thread:

One of the best explanations of anorexia I've ever heard came from my therapist, who said that anorexia is often a rejection of the mother, whose traditional role is to feed her children.

Seems more than apt in Karen's case.