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Karen Carpenter -- lesbian?

I always has the feeling that inside Karen Carpenter was a lesbian dying to get out, hence the anorexia, relationship problems, etc.

I mean, I never met a straight girl who wanted to play the drums, but my butch ex-gf played the drums in her high school band.

by Anonymousreply 22503/04/2015

From Wikipedia:

"When she was young, she enjoyed playing baseball with other children on the street. On the TV program This Is Your Life, she stated that she liked pitching. In the early 1970s, she became the pitcher on the Carpenters' official softball team."

by Anonymousreply 102/21/2013

Karen always pinged for me. I've always felt she was a repressed lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 202/21/2013

Lots of people were -- even me!

I hope she had at least one lesbian experience.

by Anonymousreply 302/21/2013

No, but some of her behavior suggests that she was either molested by a family member (ahem) or had some sort of complicated, weird relationship with a family member.

The way Richard talks about her is creepy and often just.....weird.

by Anonymousreply 502/21/2013

She probably was deeply closeted.

by Anonymousreply 602/21/2013

r4, yeah because demonic homos can't sing well right?

by Anonymousreply 702/21/2013

Long ago and oh so far away,

I fell in love with you before the second show.

by Anonymousreply 802/21/2013

She may have been lesbian, but she definitely was abused.

I think Richard may have been the abuser which is ironic because I think he's closeted/gay.

by Anonymousreply 902/21/2013

OP, I'm a straight woman who liked to play drums in high school. And I'm a baseball fan, & I'd rather wear jeans than skirts.

I don't know whether she was or wasn't, but these things aren't some kind of sign.

by Anonymousreply 1002/21/2013

Meg White. White Stripes drummer married to Jack White. Stop with you generalizations. Please.

by Anonymousreply 1102/21/2013

And before anyone jumps on me, I mean that in a good way. Most lesbians are less body-conscious in the way straight men are. Eating disorders seem to be a straight women/gay man thing.

by Anonymousreply 1302/21/2013

Karen and Olivia Newton John were best friends rumored to be lovers. i believe Karen was gay and had serious issues. My sister in law worked at the Forest Lawn in Cypress where kAREN is in the crypt and said the mom was so cold and controlling, the dad very passive and Richard, she said was so so nice

by Anonymousreply 1402/21/2013

r15 THIS was 20 years ago i SHOULD have clarified

by Anonymousreply 1602/21/2013

Karen is now laid to rest in Westlake Village, CA.

by Anonymousreply 1802/21/2013

Anorexia happens in women to stop their bodies from going through puberty and thus becoming sexualized. Anorexia eliminates breasts and hips.

She didn't want to be sexual or have her body seen as a sexual object.

I think this applied to women and men.

Like all anorexics...she didn't want to be sexual. Straight, bi or gay.

by Anonymousreply 1902/21/2013

"Karen and Olivia Newton John were best friends rumored to be lovers."

YES! I don't thing so, but it would have been so nice for her...

by Anonymousreply 2002/21/2013

She may have been gay, the drums and softball thing ARE smoke, where there may be fire (although there are exceptions of course).

However, I think the cold controlling mother is the main culprit for the anorexia, not sexuality.

[quote]The families of anorexic patients are often characterized by extremely controlling parents

by Anonymousreply 2102/21/2013

I read the recent biography of Karen, which, by the way, is an excellent book. She wasn't a lesbian. She was married for a time, but the guy married her for her money. If anyone was gay in that family, it was probably Richard.

by Anonymousreply 2202/21/2013

good grief, maybe she just had body issues brought on by low self esteem or possibly abuse. Not every serious problem a person deals with is a result of being closeted.

by Anonymousreply 2302/21/2013

Is there any other proof that she wasn't a lesbian, aside from having a guy marry her for her money?

by Anonymousreply 2402/21/2013

Doubtful, pussy has a lot of calories, that's why all lesbians are fat.

by Anonymousreply 2502/21/2013

no, more calories in sperm

by Anonymousreply 2602/21/2013

Look, OP asked a fair question.

If we found out some famous guy liked to figure skate and sew dresses when he was young, and had failed in his relationships with women, you know darn well we'd be speculating.

by Anonymousreply 2702/21/2013

She really didn't understand men, other than Richard who was worshiped by the family, and her Dad, who was ignored. When she tried to live with a guy (before marrying the man who looked a bit too much like Richard) she was home in a few days, back with her Disney toys and her TV.

She was puerile, not gay...

by Anonymousreply 2802/21/2013

I've known several straight girls who like to play drums, just for the record...

by Anonymousreply 2902/21/2013

Gay men abhor lesbians!!!

by Anonymousreply 3002/21/2013

R22 - I read the same book. Her husband was a piece of slime.

Karen's mother was a controling, manipulative bitch.

by Anonymousreply 3402/22/2013

It's amazing how the Carpenters were able to deep six the husband and his true character for so many years after the divorce. The Coleman book talked mostly about a powerful man's disgust at finding out how Karen really was, and the 1989 movie also characterized him as successful in business.

by Anonymousreply 3502/22/2013

If there was a lesbian inside dying to get out it must have been one teeny, tiny, uber skinny lesbian

by Anonymousreply 3602/22/2013

Superstar : The Karen Carpenter Story

by Anonymousreply 3702/22/2013

Love the double standard and these stupidisms from the datalounge.

No one said her anorexia was because of being a lesbian, nitwits. Karen was fucked-up and wanted to/was partially forced to remain a child. I think she probably never discovered her sexuality and just went around having "crushes" on women the way school girls do.

"She wasn't a lesbian. She was married for a time, but the guy married her for her money. If anyone was gay in that family, it was probably Richard."

1. Karen's husband was GAY. 2. More than one family member can be gay like Rosie O'Donnell & Brother, Roseanne Barr's brother & sister.

by Anonymousreply 3802/22/2013

is that true, her husband was gay?

by Anonymousreply 3902/22/2013

I'm not sure that has been established, r39 -- all we know for sure is that his business holdings were all a fraud.

by Anonymousreply 4002/22/2013

"She was puerile, not gay"

But isn't that a common first step to coming out: trying to delay adolescence, the inevitable? Remember Rosie and her toy figurines and crush on the unattainable (and safely married) (and gay himself) Tammy Cruise?

But she delayed too long, times being what they were. Then it was too late, baby.

by Anonymousreply 4102/22/2013

He certainly LOOKED gay.

by Anonymousreply 4202/22/2013

I know that the freakish Richard married their first cousin and Karen was not happy about that at all, she was embarrassed that he would do such a redneck thing. I also read something online a few years ago from someone who went to their college or high school in Downey and had the same music teacher as they had. He said that there was a lot of weird shit going on in that family and that it wasn't what you would think, he also said Karen was dead now and we should let her secrets die with her.

by Anonymousreply 4302/22/2013

Like Gina Schock.

Besides, as stereotypes go, the lesbian drummer is a pretty cool one. Always thought Gina, for one, was sexy as hell.

by Anonymousreply 4502/22/2013

Listening to her speaking voice it is clear she pinged. She had dykevoice for days...

by Anonymousreply 4602/22/2013

No, not a lesbian. While, ON-J and Carpenter were best friends, Olivia has said less than charitable things about Richard Carpenter.

She said, Karen was always trying to get the two of them together and she wasn't fond of Richard at all. Olivia seemed to dislike Richard's control of Karen.

When Karen did the solo album that wasn't released till long after she died, Richard said, Karen "stole" the Carpenters's sound. ON-J said, "What do you mean 'stole,' she 'is' the sound."

Karen had a lot of issues and the family is still in denial. Karen actually used thyroid pills to increase her metabolism and heart rate to lose weight. Doctors who treat anorexia, say they've never heard of anyone else doing this.

I can't see her as a lesbian, when ON-J talks of her it's definitely as if they were two sisters.

by Anonymousreply 4702/22/2013

Really, R47? I heard it was commonplace for people to take thyroid meds--maybe this has been proven ineffective so they no longer do it.

Poor Karen used Ipecac (sp) syrup. She also used laxatives. You know, none of us looked good in those dorky seventies clothes--they were like ill-fitting clown costumes. I'm so sorry she took a callous insult so hard.

by Anonymousreply 4802/22/2013

If one is vomiting daily and using laxatives constantly than perhaps sexuality was not a consideration for her.

by Anonymousreply 4902/22/2013

r48

That's another denial. Richard and Karen's family insist she never threw up. They claimed it would damage her voice.

The problem with the theory is too many others said she did do it, also Karen's voice WAS effected.

The problem is Karen's voice was so freakishly good, that it's hard for the average person to hear the decline, coupled with aging, and the fact she had little real voice training, the quality of voices go down over the years.

But Karen always seemed to have issues with self esteem and one thing for sure is her brother always wanted to be the famous one. But on the other hand, without Richard, Karen wouldn't have had much drive on her own and probably never would have been a star.

by Anonymousreply 5002/22/2013

I can tell that Karen was a vomiter by looking at her mouth.

by Anonymousreply 5102/22/2013

"No, not a lesbian."

Can you PROVE that,r47? No.

by Anonymousreply 5202/22/2013

Thank you Jodie aka r45, for that input.

by Anonymousreply 5302/22/2013

Tipper Gore also played drums in college.

Someone on another thread (sorry, can't remember which) said that a female friend interviewed for a position as Karen Carpenter's assistant back in the day. It was made clear that the position would involve being KC's romantic "companion." I don't know if the friend read too much into it or misunderstood the job requirements.

by Anonymousreply 5402/22/2013

Anorexia affects straight women and gay men.

Straight men and lesbians never seem to get it.

by Anonymousreply 5602/22/2013

Hey R55, Portia DiRossi is on line 3 for you. She has very important info re: lesbians for you.

by Anonymousreply 5702/22/2013

[quote]ACTRESS Portia DeGeneres says the shame of being a lesbian drove her to anorexia, with her weight plummeting to 40kg.

by Anonymousreply 5802/22/2013

Portia DiRossi is a hollywood actress.

They all starve themselves for roles.

by Anonymousreply 5902/22/2013

She's THIN!

by Anonymousreply 6002/22/2013

[quote]Anorexia = Straight. Lesbians are FAT..

As someone who's worked at an eating disorder clinic, I can tell you that no--that's not a stereotype upon which you should rely. At all.

by Anonymousreply 6102/22/2013

Anorexia = Straight. Lesbians are FAT..

That is utter BS!! Most lesbians are into fitness etc. You just hate dykes

by Anonymousreply 6202/22/2013

r47, you didn't expect closet case Olivia to admit anything did you?

by Anonymousreply 6302/22/2013

[quote]I mean, I never met a straight girl who wanted to play the drums, but my butch ex-gf played the drums in her high school band.

A sign that you're lesbian - you play the drums - wow, I've learnt something today.

by Anonymousreply 6402/22/2013

r58, Portia is so full of it when she said she was terrified to date Ellen because she never did date someone famous or in the biz, she had a real hot and heavy fling with Ringo Starr's step daughter a pretty femme

by Anonymousreply 6502/22/2013

My god, you're a big lez... That explains the keys and the chunky shoes.

by Anonymousreply 6602/22/2013

Richard was controlling because deep down he knew that she had star quality. Richard is a talented musician, but Karen could command an interview and audience. She really wanted to branch out into movies and broadway, but always looked to Richard for approval.

That being said, he was incredibly hot in the early seventies.

by Anonymousreply 6702/22/2013

Richard had a fit when he found out the blonde guy from Doogie Howser chosen to play him turned out to be gay.

by Anonymousreply 6802/22/2013

"That being said, he was incredibly hot in the early seventies."

No, always way too WASP-y.

Complete with the flaring nostrils.

by Anonymousreply 6902/22/2013

Cause Ringo's step daughter and Ellen's fame is comparable r65?

by Anonymousreply 7002/22/2013

Karen was originally slated to be the drummer on Olivia Newton-John's Physical Tour in 1982, but ONJ's manager and the Carpenters' management nixed the idea.

by Anonymousreply 7102/22/2013

Fun fact: When Karen Carpenter was doing her solo album, she was offered "Rock With You" but turned it down for whatever reasons. The song went to Michael Jackson. True story.

by Anonymousreply 7202/22/2013

Former anorexic lesbian here. Anorexia is not just for straight women and gay men.

by Anonymousreply 7302/22/2013

r73, thank God you are okay

by Anonymousreply 7402/22/2013

I recently read a couple books and several forums about Karen. I don't think she was a lesbian. However, she seemed extremely childish (much like Taylor Swift) not really understanding what love was or how to love based on her extremely critical and cold mother and aloof father. She evidently never wanted to be in front on the stage, but wanted the security of singing behind her drum set, where it was safe and she was free from judgment. She was the 'pudgy' little sister of Richard, who, in the eyes of his mother, was the only talented one in the family. Karen never got the approval from her mother that she wanted, was supposed to be a perfect singer in the ears of her brother, and was thrust out on the front of the stage--no choice or control--she wanted to be a drummer.

I think her anorexia stemmed from having zero control over her life, her immaturity, her emotionally abusive mother and brother, and having every man she liked scrutinized by Richard, and Richard showing his jealousy. The ONLY thing she could control was what she put in her mouth.

The psychologist that treated her disorder did her no favors, either.

She abused laxatives, prescription drugs, and used Ipecac (!) as her weight-control devices.

Her demise was devastatingly horrendous and sad.

by Anonymousreply 7502/23/2013

Now, Taylor Swift? I thinks she IS a lesbian, has a mental illness, and is extremely immature.

by Anonymousreply 7602/23/2013

r71

That's not correct, you have it confused. In reality, Lucille Ball was supposed to be the drummer but Gary Morton talked her out of it.

by Anonymousreply 7702/23/2013

R75 nailed it.Anorexia is ultimately all about trying to have some control over your world, which is why a common factor amongst anorexics is that one or both parents is highly controlling. Karen's story is very sad, and it's one that is continuing to play out amongst many unknowns to this day.

by Anonymousreply 7802/23/2013

I was just ruminating about KC the other day. Truly a lovely voice. It was traumatic for me when she died, as I was 10 and grew up listening to her songs.

I felt like her family favored Richard and the discovery of her talent was a fluke. And the family still thought of him as the star even though everybody else did not.

They seemed to have overlooked her gifts and didn't think much of her. But she was a gem.

by Anonymousreply 7902/23/2013

Karen was money obsessed. Richard wanted to make rich recordings like "I Get Along Without You Very Well," (done with real style later by Carly Simon), Karen only wanted to do pop crap.

I saw her on Merv once and she sang high and Merv was all like, "You are wonderful, who knew you could hit such high notes, why don't you do that more often."

Karen said, "The money's in the basement."

by Anonymousreply 8002/23/2013

r63

Hey FUCK YOU, the woman had cancer.

by Anonymousreply 8102/23/2013

I'm always torn about her. I read 'Little Girl Blue" and in some instances her maid/assistant Evelyn talked about how sweet and vulnerable she was and then the next sentence would be how Evelyn warned a new employee not to piss off Karen, she's the one you don't want to cross. Did anyone else here read it and get that vibe? I know Karen broke up some Richard relationships too so I don't know what to think of her. I do think Richard is a creepy cousin fucker though.

by Anonymousreply 8202/23/2013

That's typical behavior of anorexics. They don't know anything about middle ground. It's all or nothing. So you can see how Karen would be weak willed and wishy-washy and then when she had to put her foot down, she didn't know how to do it right, so she'd go way overboard the other way.

by Anonymousreply 8302/23/2013

Oh I didn't know that r83. Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 8402/23/2013

gay but never able to realize it fully. We have a DL poster who swears his hgh school teacher claimed to be her ex-gfriend.

by Anonymousreply 8502/23/2013

R85 WINS!!!

by Anonymousreply 8602/23/2013

Thus

by Anonymousreply 8702/23/2013

Is Karen and Richard's mother still alive?

by Anonymousreply 8802/23/2013

No r88 --

Findagrave hasn't seemed to update the page to reflect that Richard moved the whole family to a cemetery near his new house in the northern part of LA County.

by Anonymousreply 8902/23/2013

[quote]I know that the freakish Richard married their first cousin and Karen was not happy about that at all, she was embarrassed that he would do such a redneck thing.

THAT was the spinning I heard at Forest Lawn in 1984.

by Anonymousreply 9002/23/2013

[quote] Richard married their first cousin

I thought that was illegal in the US...

by Anonymousreply 9102/23/2013

Here is her new grave in a standalone mausoleum that also includes Mom and Dad

by Anonymousreply 9202/23/2013

;

by Anonymousreply 9302/23/2013

Marrying a first cousin, isn't biologically unacceptable. First cousins are far enough removed that they have no more chance of genetic illness than two totally unrelated people.

by Anonymousreply 9402/23/2013

It's still pretty fucking creepy, r94. The mere thought of doing it with any of my first cousins is just so gross.

by Anonymousreply 9502/23/2013

[quote]I thought that was illegal in the US...

by Anonymousreply 9602/23/2013

r96

In the USA marriage is governed by individual states not federal law

See link for which states allow or disallow it.

by Anonymousreply 9702/23/2013

Very few.

by Anonymousreply 9802/23/2013

R94 - Children of marriages between first cousins have a somewhat increased risk of genetic abnormalities.

by Anonymousreply 9902/23/2013

indeed they do. I think Richard did it hoping to 'clone' another Karen.

And he certainly tried, making his daughter sing her songs with him...

by Anonymousreply 10002/24/2013

If only she had eaten pussy.

by Anonymousreply 10102/24/2013

I don't think she was gay but there are tons of red flags she was abused as a child.

by Anonymousreply 10202/24/2013

r99 No more than any other non related people.

by Anonymousreply 10302/24/2013

Look at the cover of the lp Horizon. That is totally creepy.

by Anonymousreply 10402/24/2013

What's creepy about it?

by Anonymousreply 10502/24/2013

r104? It just looks "moody" to me, like they were trying to get away from their earlier cheery pop reputation.

by Anonymousreply 10602/24/2013

It is creepy. It looks like Karen is all submissive to Richard sexual domination. Yech.

by Anonymousreply 10702/24/2013

weirdo.

by Anonymousreply 10802/24/2013

'[

by Anonymousreply 10902/25/2013

R12, R13, I have a lesbian girlfriend who became anorexic, post an extremely traumatic molestation, as an attempt to stop her body from developing womanly characteritics. She believed that might stop the sexual abuse.

by Anonymousreply 11002/25/2013

grow up

by Anonymousreply 11202/25/2013

R112, Are you really an adult?

by Anonymousreply 11302/25/2013

;

by Anonymousreply 11403/03/2013

Oh, dear. Richard is so creepy and such a terrible singer. And so very, very gay.

by Anonymousreply 11505/04/2013

Even Richard's lisp has a lisp. See for yourself at the chorus.

by Anonymousreply 11605/04/2013

Never understood the worship of her or the group. Mediocre, mindless pap and I suspect gays love her because she's a victim. Bland music and dreary arrangements do not an artist make.

Oh yes. Right-wing folks who get a pass because, hey, she was a victim. Right.

by Anonymousreply 11705/04/2013

She did play drums...kind of dykey.

by Anonymousreply 11805/04/2013

He looks skeletal in that clip, r115.

And they were not rightwing, Ranger, lame photo of them with Nixon notwithstanding.

by Anonymousreply 11905/04/2013

R117--her story, yes, but also that very distinctive, rich, haunting voice. And occasionally she had better songs than the "pap" you dismiss. (Yes, some of their stuff was pap.)

by Anonymousreply 12005/04/2013

God, she was overrated. If she hadn't died so young and dramatically, she would never be worshiped so.

by Anonymousreply 12105/04/2013

R121 nailed it.

THREAD CLOSED

by Anonymousreply 12205/04/2013

"Karen & Richard had Republican ties..."

by Anonymousreply 12305/04/2013

"Who cares" should not be a poll choice. Homophobes say "who cares" because they don't want to know or discuss such a vile thing.

by Anonymousreply 12405/04/2013

...you left out this part, r123 (and DUH, their creepy parents were no doubt republican) -- NEITHER WAS KNOWN TO BE POLITICAL.

But nice try, Ranger

by Anonymousreply 12505/04/2013

Nice try for what, R125??? I quoted a sentence and linked the source. That is ALL I DID.

Here's a little friendly advice for you: Lose the "Ranger" crap. It's lame and it makes you appear witless.

by Anonymousreply 12605/05/2013

Never gave this any thought but it would explain a lot. The melancholic undertone in her songs. Her brother pings as well to say the least.

by Anonymousreply 12705/05/2013

You quoted PART of the sentence and left out the other part that explained they were not political.

Own it.

by Anonymousreply 12805/05/2013

Debatable, R124. Highly debatable.

by Anonymousreply 12905/05/2013

ha!

by Anonymousreply 13005/06/2013

I remember when she was at her most popular , a critic stated that listening to her singing was like watching Pat Nixon eat an ice cream cone with a spoon....always thought that was spot on ...

by Anonymousreply 13105/06/2013

I couldn't vote because you didn't have the choice: "it never crossed my mind before, but now that you mention it, maybe she was..."

by Anonymousreply 13205/06/2013

She was. I think it's so obvious.

by Anonymousreply 13305/06/2013

I think it's more obvious that she was developmentally delayed.

by Anonymousreply 13405/06/2013

There's nothing to own, R128. I have no investment in their political affiliation or activities and I provided a link for the full context of the quote.

In better news, here's an 18 yo Karen dykin' it up on the drums, while "Dick" plays the electric piano with a headful of Mop & Glo hair.

by Anonymousreply 13505/06/2013

hmmm

by Anonymousreply 13605/09/2013

Did this site ever get linked to in this thread?

The comments are quite interesting, especially Seargant Major's:

"No,they were in no way gay! Richard has been married to the same woman now for nearly three decades and has sired several children and only dated women. Karen only had men in her romantic life and was wed also, albeit briefly, so if they were gay, they sure had a funny way of showing it. Also,I shake my head at some of the people who believe a person could be unaware they are gay? That is about as mentally retarded as saying that a person is unaware of their eye or skin colour!What gender that turns you on is just as patently obivous unless you are comatose. Let's remember the Carpenters for their wonderful music and stop all this foolish, baseless intrigue,conjecture, and innuendo about them!"

by Anonymousreply 13705/15/2013

The only way she would've eaten pussy is if it were fat free.

by Anonymousreply 13805/15/2013

that comment is the LEAST interesting of the comments at that link. Are you nuts?

by Anonymousreply 13905/15/2013

Did anyone already say that she wouldn't eat pussy?

by Anonymousreply 14005/15/2013

Yes, R139, I am nuts for thinking that a non-gay person's inability to understand a gay person's confusion about their sexuality is interesting. Quite nuts.

by Anonymousreply 14105/16/2013

yes, you are.

by Anonymousreply 14305/16/2013

R137 What is funny about that comment you are quoting is that Richard Carpenter married his biological first cousin and had five children with her. That is not normal at all.

by Anonymousreply 14405/16/2013

Karen Carpenter's autopsy report:

by Anonymousreply 14505/17/2013

"Mutiple needle marks in the groin?" "Fresh needle marks are seen in both wrists and on the back of the right hand?" What was THAT all about? Was she a drug addict in addition to being anorexic? Did she inject herself with speed or something?

As for her being a lesbian...I really don't think she was. She was just unlucky in love (with guys) for a lot of reasons. And all this talk about her being lesbian lovers with Olivia Newton John is just ridiculous. It makes a good juicy rumor, though.

by Anonymousreply 14605/17/2013

I think the multiple needle marks in the groin and the ones on her wrists and hand were from paramedics and ER doctors working to revive her.

I truly believe she was a lesbian who never realized she was a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 14705/17/2013

I agree. I think she was too but didnt fully realize it or act on it.

by Anonymousreply 14805/17/2013

Yeah r146, like the guys she liked were gay. I mean the guy, there was only one.

by Anonymousreply 14905/17/2013

Did anyone read that recent biography? Does it speculate on this subject?

by Anonymousreply 15005/17/2013

Speaking of recent bios, any suggestions? I would really love to read up again on her.

by Anonymousreply 15105/17/2013

(10) I don't understand why straight women are on this board.

Karen sure pinged...but did seem immature, tomboy a little too late in life. I think Richard was the abuser. I knew a gay women who was sexually abused by her gay older brother when they were kids.

Richard is just creepy and the way he spoke abut her at times was doubly creepy.

by Anonymousreply 15205/18/2013

But ONJ is a lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 15305/18/2013

The Carpenters on The Dating Game...Awkward!

Part 1 of 3.

by Anonymousreply 15405/18/2013

Thanks r154

by Anonymousreply 15505/18/2013

OMG, r154. That was painful to watch.

She did seem a bit like a lesbian. She reminded my of my 10th grade biology teacher of the same era.

by Anonymousreply 15605/18/2013

R151, Little Girl Blue is the most recent bio and it's worth a read. I think there was an authorized bio some time ago, but I haven't read that one.

The BBC documentary is good and it's on youtube in six parts. Here's part one:

by Anonymousreply 15705/18/2013

Richard had Gay Lisp.

by Anonymousreply 15805/20/2013

I think she was one of those people who wasn't a lesbian, but perhaps should've been for her own good- then she never would've fallen for the guy she ended up marrying, Tom Burris. He turned out to be a gold-digger as well as (it's hinted) abusive. The author doesn't straight-out say it, potentially for legal reasons, in the (VERY well-done) "Little Girl Blue: The Life of Karen Carpenter" by Randy Schmidt, but it's heavily implied. (BTW, Schmidt is an out gay man, and if Karen had been gay, I'm pretty sure he would've said something).

She did date a lot of men casually, and was always looking for her "perfect" "knight in shining armor" who'd "save" her from the lonely life she had, but had only a few serious relationships. The Carpenters' mother was extreeeeemely possessive of her children- when Karen dared suggesting moving out at 24, her mother called her on the phone screaming, "TRAITOR!!" (wtf?!) In addition to the apron strings being more like a noose, Mrs. Carpenter was also very traditional-values, so I can only imagine her reaction when Karen did move in with her then-boyfriend and almost-fiance in 1975, Terry Ellis. Yikes. (The relationship didn't last long after that).

Although Karen struck many of her friends as wise beyond her years in some respects (and her voice conveys that), she also seemed to them sometimes as a tomboyish young girl that was sort of emotionally immature when it came to an idealized version of love (think Disney princess- she was very into Disney). Karen also had very low self-esteem and didn't think she was nearly as pretty as other pop stars (Olivia Newton-John, etc.)

I don't hold any of this against her. I think it's very understandable given her circumstances, and I can relate. I wish she would've stood up for herself more, though, especially when it came to her mother, brother, and record company.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a lesbian, of course (I love Ellen, Rosie, and I'd still love Karen if she was!) but outside of Teh Intertubez' "OMG I heard somebody's teacher's friend say she was a lesbo! PING!!11!!eleven!", I'd rather stick with facts.

by Anonymousreply 15905/20/2013

R159, take a pill.

by Anonymousreply 16005/20/2013

R159, the first sentence of your post gives you away as a complete crackpot.

by Anonymousreply 16105/21/2013

Oh, dear lord! Concert footage of K & R singing songs from Grease. Karen is wearing fake pointy tits.

by Anonymousreply 16205/21/2013

both were at the height of their eating disorders... awful.

by Anonymousreply 16305/21/2013

At the link, a commenter compares Whitney's early death to Karen's. That both resulted from a deep denial or hatred of who they truly were. I think she's onto something.

by Anonymousreply 16405/24/2013

That's someone's blog. And the woman has a point.

by Anonymousreply 16505/24/2013

Anyone can see that she was clearly gay. Her voice, her mannerisms, her personality, the unsuccessful attempts to be with men, the deep sadness and uncomfortableness...

Richard also pinged to high heavens too, and had his own battles with pills.

Both were brought up in a repressed, religious household at a time when to be gay was nothing short of evil.

God love them both.

by Anonymousreply 16606/17/2013

I'm with the poster who mentioned arrested development. Karen never progressed to a developed sexual identity. The gay/straight/bi question is moot.

by Anonymousreply 16706/17/2013

r168 = Bette Midler

by Anonymousreply 16906/17/2013

I agree with R166 and would add something that I read in Little Girl Blue. How she would make lists of qualities that she would want in a man. There was nothing about attraction, emotion, love, etc., just the list of qualities. The way it was presented in the book seemed so unnatural.

Plus there was that whole thing where her friend took her under her wing and tried to make a "lady" out of her, i.e., not to walk like a truck driver. Which in the 70's meant "I don't get that my friend is a repressed lesbian, so I'll try to help her be more feminine."

by Anonymousreply 17006/18/2013

She never ate ANYTHING....so I'm guessing she was no lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 17106/18/2013

Idiot. There are plenty of lesbians with eating disorders...

by Anonymousreply 17206/18/2013

Only eating nut loaf doesn't count as an eating disorder.

by Anonymousreply 17306/18/2013

lesbians don't usually seem to mind being fat......

by Anonymousreply 17406/18/2013

She and Richard were both plenty fucked up, but I don't think either one of them was gay. In fact, both of them seemed very asexual, very bloodless and repressed. I think their upbringing (domineering, controlling mother, wimpy father) really crippled them emotionally.

by Anonymousreply 17506/18/2013

What was up with her and Bette?

No wonder Barry White refused to attend the Grammys ever again after this. They really are the biggest joke of all awards shows, at least the Oscars can somewhat claim to represent the best of the year.

by Anonymousreply 17606/18/2013

no.

by Anonymousreply 17706/19/2013

I just finished reading Karen's biography for the second time. Karen was often called "tomboyish" as a girl but there is no evidence to suggest she was a lesbian. She had a number of boyfriends and wished desperately to get married and have children. (She did get married, but the guy proved to be a gold digger and the marriage was over almost as soon as it started.) Her brother and mother were fanatically controlling. That and the act's exhausting recording and performing schedule pushed Karen over the edge into anorexia.

by Anonymousreply 17806/29/2013

r178?

Do you really think any of what you wrote hasn't been covered on this thread already?

by Anonymousreply 17906/30/2013

I suspect they're going to find out that anorexia is a neurological condition similar to OCD or ADHD, and that although stress or traumatic events might serve as triggers they're not the primary cause. My understanding is there are a growing number of men being diagnosed with anorexia, and it tends to affect people who are highly competent, intelligent and ambitious. If you think about it it takes a hell of a lot of self-discipline and ability to plan and follow through in order to maintain yourself just at the edge of starvation without actually starving to death. And like it or not, our culture rewards people for thinness. It's equated with beauty and high social status. I think a lot of women (including lesbians) specifically use their fat as a signal that they've opted out of the success track. Karen may not have chosen stardom, but once she got it she was very much invested in her career and keeping herself skinny was part of that dedication. Her anorexia has almost eclipsed her music as her legacy. And I do think her anorexia is something we admire as much as we're horrified by it.

by Anonymousreply 18006/30/2013

I think you're insane, r180, and perhaps anorexic yourself.

No one "admires" Karen Carpenter's anorexia.

by Anonymousreply 18106/30/2013

r180 can you explain why someone would admire it?

by Anonymousreply 18207/01/2013

gay and sad

by Anonymousreply 18310/08/2013

So sad, but not gay!

by Anonymousreply 18411/04/2013

She was not gay! She wanted to be married and have children.

by Anonymousreply 18611/07/2013

So did I...

by Anonymousreply 18711/07/2013

In the pretty bad TV movie about The Carpenters, it's suggested that Karen developed an eating disorder because a reviewer called her "pudgy" (or something like that) in print. So that MUST be true.

by Anonymousreply 18811/07/2013

Guess what, r186. People can be married, have children and be gay!

by Anonymousreply 18911/07/2013

She might have been happy; but, she was no lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 19011/08/2013

She looks so different in this show from 1969 when she was almost 19 years old.

by Anonymousreply 19111/09/2013

Evidence, r190?

by Anonymousreply 19211/10/2013

You for starters, r192.

Quite a few confused closeted lesbians married gay men in the 1970s.

by Anonymousreply 19311/10/2013

That was the point, r193.

by Anonymousreply 19411/10/2013

She looks almost exactly like my first gf in high school (1975) in that clip, R191. She too went on to marry, three different men over time.

And she too "missed her calling."

by Anonymousreply 19511/10/2013

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 19611/10/2013

OMG ALL the females in the world are lesbian it doesn't matter who they are. It's very true and I don't have to prove a word of it, just like you all have FAILED.

Here's some jucie news for you, get a life.

by Anonymousreply 19711/22/2013

whoah. why so invested in karen carpenter being straight, r197?

by Anonymousreply 19811/22/2013

R197 = one of those gays that insists that every hot male actor is a homo

by Anonymousreply 19911/22/2013

Oh for God's sake, Karen Carpenter was NOT gay! She and her brother were both conservative Republicans who embraced "family values"; marriage and children and all that boring stuff.

She was unlucky in love, though. The guy ended up marrying was awful. She was rich and famous; couldn't she have found a better person to marry than him? This is from the biography "Little Girl Blue":

Thirty-nine-year-old Tom Burris met a number of Karen's requirements in a potential husband. "He was very attractive, very nice, and he seemed very generous," said Carole Curb. Two months into their relationship, Burris told Karen he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. The couple's plan for a year-long engagement was ditched when they announced in July their plans for an August ceremony. The push to be married alarmed Karen's friends. According to Karen 'Itchie' Ramone, Karen's friend and the wife of producer Phil Ramone, "That's when everybody's antennas went up." Days before the wedding rehearsal Burris dropped a bombshell: he had undergone a vasectomy prior to their meeting. Karen was dumbfounded. He offered to reverse the procedure but their chances at a family would be significantly lessened.

Karen felt betrayed. Burris had lied to her; he had withheld this information for the duration of their courtship and engagement, knowing full well that starting a family was at the top of Karen's list of priorities. This was a deal breaker. The wedding was off. Karen picked up the phone and called her mother. She cried to Agnes as she explained the deceit that left her with no choice but to cancel the ceremony. But Agnes told her she would do no such thing. Family and friends were travelling from all over the country to attend the event. Moreover, the wedding expenses had already cost what Agnes considered to be a small fortune. "The invitations have gone out. There are reporters and photographers coming. People magazine is going to be there. The wedding is on, and you will walk down that aisle. You made your bed, Karen," she told her. "Now you'll have to lay in it."

Most of Karen's family and friends had assumed Burris's lifestyle and net worth were comparable to her own. The expensive cars and other possessions gave him the appearance of a multimillionaire, but what others did not realise was that he was living well beyond his means.

"It wasn't long after they got married that he started asking her for money," recalls Evelyn Wallace. "He'd give her some excuse, and she'd give him the money. He'd ask for $35,000 and $50,000 at a time. Finally it got down to the point where all she had left was stocks and bonds."

As Itchie Ramone recalls, "Tom couldn't afford the houses, the cars, her wedding ring; he couldn't pay for anything." Karen began to share with friends her growing misgivings about Tom, not only concerning his finances but also his lack of feelings for her. He was often impatient, and she admitted being fearful when he would occasionally lose his temper. "He could be very cruel to her," says Itchie. But Karen's longing to be a mother proved to be stronger than her desire to leave her husband. At their house in Newport Beach Karen expressed to Burris her desire to get pregnant and start a family. His response was brutal. She was still crying hysterically when she called Itchie Ramone for support. Burris had told her he wouldn't even consider having children with her and called her "a bag of bones". According to Itchie, this marriage was "the straw that broke the camel's back. It was absolutely the worst thing that could have ever happened to her."

by Anonymousreply 20011/22/2013

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 20111/22/2013

She must have been a big bottom since she refused to eat anything.

by Anonymousreply 20211/22/2013

no she wasn't but Richard was. Nicest people. Dressed odd. Richard wore the fluffiest pink angoras. Honest. Always carried a tennis racket. The whole little family, except Quincy, at A&M were sweethearts.

by Anonymousreply 20311/22/2013

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 20411/22/2013

R200, are you not aware that conservative Republicans who embrace 'family values' can be gay?

by Anonymousreply 20511/22/2013

Yes, just acted that way. Expensive clothing, not always in my taste for Richard, but I sensed he was trying to copy Herb Alpert who always wore the most beautifully tailored and obviously expensive casual slacks, no socks, sweater tied around shoulders. Then Richard started copying him though more pink and fluffier, but cloning definitely. The ONJ and Karen was one way, Not Karen's idea at all.

Met Carpenters all the time casually. There was a veranda outside at Charlie Chaplin studio, now A&M records where we always talked together. She was just insecure. High school. Told she was ugly often, homely, horse faced. Never, ever recovered. Validated a little and perked up after first fame think she could get all the flaws she hated fixed with better clothes picked by Richard. Didn't help. Seriously depressed forever and anorexia was to make herself uglier and validate others' opinion. Professionals, I mean serious singers and musicians said she had once in a lifetime voice--control, ease, pitch, warmth, etc. I wasn't interested in what they did (kinda square, and boy did general opinion rankle them. They would have given up every dollar just for a 'hip' hit. Really killed Richard's interest in performing/writing,

They were always looking how to dress, behave,act--hicks and insecure. Olivia hanging around with her is a press agent's invention. Olivia wouldn't be caught within a mile.

As for the politics. Whatever. Let me tell you, Downey in the 60s and 70s was like living in Kentucky. They had no political consciousness whatsoever. I'd discount all the drug talk and argue that all that was at the very end when it was too late. She didn't know her anorexia was killing her. She had a sweet, concerned and very worried but when does that ever help. So painfully shy and pathologically so isolated her. If she could have had one friend she;d be alive today. Richard was very sweet to her but like many of that era thought he could just wear her down talking to make her better.

by Anonymousreply 20611/22/2013

So is this one a big ole lezbo?

by Anonymousreply 20811/22/2013

Yes indeed.

by Anonymousreply 20911/23/2013

r203, looking back don't you think it was very likely Richard was/is a closet-case?

by Anonymousreply 21011/23/2013

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 21111/23/2013

Unless you can produce someone who knew her and can testify "Karen said to me 'I'm not a lesbian!'", then she is.

by Anonymousreply 21211/23/2013

You protest too much, granny R213. Are you aware that this is a gay gossip forum?

by Anonymousreply 21411/23/2013

r203 come back!

by Anonymousreply 21611/25/2013

she had the most beautiful contralo voice.

by Anonymousreply 21712/03/2013

contralto, not contralo.

by Anonymousreply 21812/03/2013

KC didn't die of anorexia, her heart gave out from the toxic meds she was ingesting in large doses over the years. She had gotten over the eating disorder and had put weight on. She literally died of a broken heart, so sad.

by Anonymousreply 21912/05/2013

R206, it sounds like you might have some interesting ON-J gossip. Please spill it!

by Anonymousreply 22012/05/2013

Richard Carpenter's wife, the former Mary Rudolph, is indeed his first cousin, but is genetically unrelated to him as she was adopted by her parents as an infant.

One unfortunate contributing factor to Karen's anorexia was the fact that she inherited a pear-shaped physique, with hips that stayed wide no matter how thin she got. She could hide them while performing behind a drum set, but when forced out front to be a vocalist, no.

Too bad a good costume designer couldn't have helped make her more flattering stage wear. Also a tragedy that she could never, ever get her mother's love and approval. When Karen tried to call off her disastrous wedding after the invitations had been mailed (future groom Tom Burris had finally revealed his vasectomy), Agnes Carpenter said, "You've made your bed, Karen, now you have to lie in it." Nice. (Not.)

by Anonymousreply 22112/29/2013

I enjoyed all the things that Karen enjoyed. Playing drums, playing softball etc. I was a true tom boy but I was very attracted to men. Your activities do not define you. I am also a physical education teacher. Not even close to the closet. I enjoyed many friends that were lesbian but had no interest in an intimate relationship.

by Anonymousreply 22203/04/2015

Karen was not a rug muncher and Richard was not gay.

ONJ has said many times how Karen was always pushing and pushing her to date her brother. So from that angle, even Karen didn't think her brother was gay.

ONJ was best friends with Karen but did not like Richard, who she felt was pushing Karen in musical directions Karen didn't want to go.

Richard, at least to his credit admitted this. He said, had he known that Karen would die so young, he would've stopped trying to make everything so commercial.

by Anonymousreply 22303/04/2015

Karen Carpenter, in my opinion, probably wanted to be left alone. It is very sad that she never got her mother's love or her approval. It must have fucked her up very bad. I also believe that she was molested as a child.

by Anonymousreply 22403/04/2015

Nah, pussy is too fattening. I'm watching my figure.

by Anonymousreply 22503/04/2015
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