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Family of hikers mysteriously found dead on California forest trail, Part 3

Sobbing fraus and "think about the children" twats STAY OUT.

by Anonymousreply 600September 8, 2021 1:12 PM

Link to part 2

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by Anonymousreply 1August 29, 2021 6:16 PM

when will the toxicology results be released?

by Anonymousreply 2August 29, 2021 10:30 PM

Weeks, R2. Part 2 is not finished.

by Anonymousreply 3August 29, 2021 10:36 PM

From the previous thread:

[Quote]Finally, the Forest Service is taking some preventative action. Sadly, too late for the dead family.

This was NEVER the Forest Service's fault. Those hikers would have likely gone ahead regardless of a Facebook post saying the trail was closed. I hate the notion that there has to be someone responsible for preventing this kind of death.

These idiots wanted notoriety amongst their peers - make them a textbook case of what not to do, but do not posit that they went into this without knowing all the risks. No one, not All Trails, not Instagram and certainly not the Forest Service is even partly responsible for this.

by Anonymousreply 4August 29, 2021 11:43 PM

I don't want to fault OP for starting this new thread. It was taking an excruciatingly long time to open the previous one, let alone try to respond to it on our phones.

Thanks, OP.

by Anonymousreply 5August 29, 2021 11:47 PM

Another thanks from me, OP. I think Muriel may have to rethink the 600 post cut off as with so many people these days using their phones, the bog out factor starting at around 500 posts becomes crazy making, and a turn-off for participation.

by Anonymousreply 6August 30, 2021 12:10 AM

[quote]This was NEVER the Forest Service's fault.

So you don't believe in public safety measures? The Forest Service can help deter people from taking deadly risks. Like I said in the previous thread, it doesn't absolve the family of responsibility. But if closing trails in peak heat season — trails that are becoming increasingly dangerous as temperatures rise across the West — keeps people safe, it's worth it.

by Anonymousreply 7August 30, 2021 12:12 AM

Agree, R7, plus the cost of SAR and the risks to others' safety when there is an emergency. Best to prevent as many as possible.

by Anonymousreply 8August 30, 2021 12:15 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 9August 30, 2021 2:07 AM

The morgues are backlogged because of covid.. The autopsy report is slow in coming.

by Anonymousreply 10August 30, 2021 2:10 AM

The autopsy is done per the article late last week but they are waiting on the tox screen

by Anonymousreply 11August 30, 2021 2:29 AM

The body of their dog was tested too. It's not described as an autopsy for the dog, its described as something else.

by Anonymousreply 12August 30, 2021 2:36 AM

A necropsy?

by Anonymousreply 13August 30, 2021 2:41 AM

The dog died of embarrassment..

by Anonymousreply 14August 30, 2021 2:47 AM

Yes, I hadn't seen the word necropsy before this family's death.

by Anonymousreply 15August 30, 2021 2:47 AM

Sheriff Briese: “There are other possibilities of just the natural elements of heat, the dehydration, and the aggressiveness of this hike, but right now we don’t have any of those answers.”

by Anonymousreply 16August 30, 2021 3:28 AM

The grandparent must hate them for doing something like taking a baby on a hike in the summer heat.

by Anonymousreply 17August 30, 2021 3:44 AM

I wonder, with cv, if his family had even met the baby. Very sad story.

There are videos of Jon doing work presentations on YT. Did not have as much of an alpha vibe as I expected given everything. Big guy, thinner, smaller people tend to do better with regulating heat.

If you were on a trail and your pet was in distress, would you leave it and save yourself, coming back with help?

Also, for those who live in hot climates, do you have booties for your dog's feet so they do not burn on hot pavement or a hot trail in summer?

by Anonymousreply 18August 30, 2021 4:13 AM

This thread is boring, I miss the Goys. You are all scummy mother fuckers!

by Anonymousreply 19August 30, 2021 4:19 AM

[quote]The Forest Service can help deter people from taking deadly risks.

How would they do that?

by Anonymousreply 20August 30, 2021 4:20 AM

They have just closed many trails until late September, so, that is a start.

by Anonymousreply 21August 30, 2021 4:24 AM

Apple Health can add an alert to those furiously exercising in the heat.

by Anonymousreply 22August 30, 2021 4:30 AM

Still not buying the heat stroke theory, there are many warning signs before someone dies of heat stroke. You dont just all at the same time drop dead. Were they found under a tree for example trying to get shade? Where they by the water trying to cool off? There is not such thing as group heat stroke.

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by Anonymousreply 23August 30, 2021 4:33 AM

There was no tree cover, they burned in a fire in 2018. The temps were 109 in the shade and they were in exposed sun for hours.

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by Anonymousreply 24August 30, 2021 4:45 AM

There was as stream near buy, I am sure it was cold, even if it had algae in it, better than dying of heat. Why were they not found in that? You would think the dog at least would be hear that.

by Anonymousreply 25August 30, 2021 4:48 AM

The river was full of toxic algae and dead fish. The terrain is similar to Death Valley, no trees since 2018. The terrain is very rugged and steep. It was 2 adults, a dog and a baby in a pack, not a group. The dog was 8 and an Akita mix with a double coat. He likely struggled early and may not have been able to walk on the trail due to the temps. The father was wearing the 1 year old, the baby and pack were probably 25 lbs and it is very hot for the wearer and the baby. He may have been carrying the decent sized dog as well. The climb out on the SL trail is 5 miles of 2000 feet change in elevation, so steep there are switchbacks and fully exposed to the sun.

by Anonymousreply 26August 30, 2021 4:49 AM

The dog was on a leash. A lot of your points were discussed in Part 2.

by Anonymousreply 27August 30, 2021 4:50 AM

[quote]It was 2 adults, a dog and a baby in a pack, not a group

That's a group. 3 people dont all drop dead at the same time. 2 people dont drop dead at the same time. That's not how heatstroke works. It could have taken hours before one died after another.

by Anonymousreply 28August 30, 2021 5:00 AM

The wife apparently dropped dead a little bit later. she was found 30 yards away from him, apparently trying to get to the car.

by Anonymousreply 29August 30, 2021 5:03 AM

People new to this, please go back and read Part 2. All of these questions have been answered (to the best of our ability, so far). Let's keep the regurgitation to a minimum if at all possible.

by Anonymousreply 30August 30, 2021 5:06 AM

Bad Shrooms.

by Anonymousreply 31August 30, 2021 5:08 AM

They were on a trail where temps were 109 from 8 am Sunday to 11 am Tuesday. All died during that time, no one has said they died simultaneously. The infant in a pack stood on the trail and the dog on a leash were not exactly capable of hiking out the steep 5 mile trail to save themselves. The father sat down, like that trail runner and never got up again, like that trail runner. Resting does not help heat stroke, the core temp needs to be aggressively lowered. The woman was a short way up the hill but did not have a phone, it had been left with the guy. Even if they had made it back to the car they likely would have died or had brain damage, there is no way to cool core temps on the trail. The best intervention is immersion in cold water or being packed in ice and electrolytes and IV fluids, air conditioning is also helpful. Heat stroke has a high death rate if intervention is delayed, they had none.

by Anonymousreply 32August 30, 2021 5:12 AM

....

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by Anonymousreply 33August 30, 2021 5:13 AM

[quote] she was found 30 yards away from him

Did she take the baby and dog with her? So all three the man, dog and baby all died in the same spot and then she deiced to head for the car?

by Anonymousreply 34August 30, 2021 5:19 AM

Ugh I hate that their negligence ended up killing the baby and dog.

by Anonymousreply 35August 30, 2021 5:25 AM

Wouldn't the baby die first long before two strong adults?

by Anonymousreply 36August 30, 2021 5:52 AM

109f is not that hot, talk to all the old queens in PS. That's like spring to them.

by Anonymousreply 37August 30, 2021 5:54 AM

R23, why do you think they all died at the same time? Maybe the baby and dog went first and they were trying to carry them out. Or dad became incapacitated and wasn't able to carry the dog and baby and the woman stuck around hoping her breathing would help her out. Maybe their time of death was ascertained during the autopsy and will be released when they've finished toxicology.

According to the info gathered from Philip K's smartwatch, he was running normally and then slowed to a walking pace, zigzagging and going in circles. I'm surprised he was able to find his final resting place under a tree.

by Anonymousreply 38August 30, 2021 6:07 AM

Totally agree with OP starting this early, I started Part 2 kind of early because the lag is excruciating on those long threads, even if you're on a PC.

by Anonymousreply 39August 30, 2021 6:14 AM

[quote]They were on a trail where temps were 109 from 8 am Sunday to 11 am Tuesday.

It was not 109F at 8:00 a.m. Per stats posted in Part 2, it was about 85F.

You guys who keep making stuff up need to just leave.

by Anonymousreply 40August 30, 2021 6:16 AM

Shhh R40, we're trying to get the parents posthumously charged with negligent homicide here.

by Anonymousreply 41August 30, 2021 6:21 AM

This is just one of the temperature stats copied & pasted on the previous thread:

08/15/2021 06:00 73 DEG F

08/15/2021 07:00 77 DEG F

08/15/2021 08:00 85 DEG F

08/15/2021 09:00 92 DEG F

08/15/2021 10:00 99 DEG F

08/15/2021 11:00 103 DEG F

There's more at #56 in Part 2, plus others also posted similar stats. It stayed over 100F until 7:00 p.m. but then dropped back down. No idea why someone is saying that it stayed 109F for over 24 hours in a row because temperatures simply do not work that way.

by Anonymousreply 42August 30, 2021 6:22 AM

[quote]No idea why someone is saying that it stayed 109F

Because it's always 109° when you're on a DEATH MARCH through a HELLSCAPE!

by Anonymousreply 43August 30, 2021 6:28 AM

We know that they were seen at 7:45 a.m. headed for the trail so it's plausible that they had planned on hiking an hour or so and quitting before it got over 90F.

We don't know why they kept going. I'm completely baffled, because it doesn't make any sense for them to have done the whole trail, but the sheriff says it looks like they did. The fanfic writers who camp out in these threads have their drama queen theories, but they don't make sense. Despite neither of them seeming like Fulbright scholars, there is no evidence they were druggies or dumb enough to stay out in the heat with a dog and a baby. Why did they go forward to do the loop instead of turning back?

Also, the theory that they were trying to show off doesn't make sense, because Gerrish had done this trail before, doing it again wouldn't have been anything to crow about. Chung has some photos of their hikes on her IG but half those photos show them near bridges and sidewalks and in obviously easy-to-reach areas. More than once (like on the Gobi desert photos) she basically says she never wants to do that again.

by Anonymousreply 44August 30, 2021 6:35 AM

[quote] Despite neither of them seeming like Fulbright scholars, there is no evidence they were druggies or dumb enough to stay out in the heat with a dog and a baby.

But they were, Blanche, they were dumb enough to stay out in the heat with a dog and a baby!

by Anonymousreply 45August 30, 2021 7:31 AM

What r44 said.

by Anonymousreply 46August 30, 2021 7:36 AM

We don't know why, r45. You've decided she did it for Instagram clout, which is a dumb theory based on nothing but your own sad need for drama. When someone pointed out that there was no evidence on her IG that she was doing dangerous things for attention, you said something like "you're old and don't know that people post IG stories which are temporary."

No one gets clout from stories. Stories are used by people who are creating regular content, and are designed to keep people checking IG frequently for new content. Chung doesn't have that kind of Instagram.

If she was the kind of person who put her dog and baby in danger for attention, there would be some evidence of it.

If he was the kind of person who put his dog and baby in danger just to get attention on AllTrails, there would be some evidence of it. Instead, we see him taking short easy hikes recently, and this was a longer trail he'd already done years ago.

She also would have brought her phone with her to document the hike to post stuff later.

I'm sorry you can't emotionally handle it when people bring up good reasons why your pet theory isn't a good one, but do try to control yourself from here on out.

by Anonymousreply 47August 30, 2021 7:43 AM

Serves them right! They were obviously too stupid to live and didn't deserve their baby and dog. Nobody will miss these useless cunts.

by Anonymousreply 48August 30, 2021 9:23 AM

So then why on earth would they go on a treacherous hike in the burning heat, R47? Did the Mafia put a gun to their backs and march them out there and then suffocated them one by one? I never said it was for Instagram clout alone, but for personal clout among their friends and peers and IG is a tool to help them achieve that. To prove they were cool and did cool things, that they were keeping up with the Joneses in their Bay Area crowd. Her IG is full of that. Even when she had nothing to post, she posted “oh look here, I found this photo from our trip to Indonesia last year.” Attention seeking at its finest. As for Stories, fraus abuse it constantly and excessively nowadays, it’s not just for content creators, and I would opine it’s used far more by average folks than a regular posting. I would not be surprised if she posted frequently using stories, but we’ll never know.

You are entitled to your theories and I’m entitled to mine. It was breathtakingly stupid to do such a trek with a baby and a thick-furred dog. And logically, it was their hubris that did them in. Not magical algae, not carbon monoxide, just arrogance about their abilities and good ol’ fashioned heatstroke.

by Anonymousreply 49August 30, 2021 9:26 AM

[Quote] here is no evidence they were dumb enough to stay out in the heat with a dog and a baby.

The proof is in the pudding.

by Anonymousreply 50August 30, 2021 10:24 AM

Temps were not 109 at 8am or overnight dumbfuck but they were that high, or perhaps higher in the canyon during that time. 109 was registered in the shade 2 miles away.

Yet they were on at trail for over 48 hours during which time NO ONE ELSE WAS ON THE TRAIL due to the fact that temps went up to 109. Humans and double coated dogs cannot withstand core temps going that high. So they fucking melted from the inside out and then decomposed.

Maybe you could head to Mariposa and test it out for us. It does not have to STAY 109 continuously for it to fucking kill a baby, a furry Akita mix and 2 adults. But, if you wanna get first hand evidence you fucking moron, report back.

by Anonymousreply 51August 30, 2021 12:44 PM

^R40 who is too dumb to live FFS.

by Anonymousreply 52August 30, 2021 12:45 PM

Why do you think they did the hike despite an extreme heat advisory and a warning about poor air quality, R45? It is striking that not another person used that trail for 2 1/2 days. Locals say they hike it in spring and fall. They had to feel the heat rising soon after they started, why choose that hike and why press on until death?

by Anonymousreply 53August 30, 2021 12:49 PM

I am surprised no wild animals had a bit or two before they were discovered. Seriously, you think the dogs sent at least would attract other animals.

by Anonymousreply 54August 30, 2021 12:50 PM

I think wild animals prefer fresh meat. These folk were barbecued by the time nightfall arrived and all the critters came out.

by Anonymousreply 55August 30, 2021 12:52 PM

My theory copy-pasted from Part II + added thoughts below:

[quote] Father and poor old dog already collapsed, said they would sit down for a moment (possibly leaning against a tree). Wife said she'd go up for help and collapsed on her way. All died from a heatstroke exacerbated by exhaustion and severe dehydration.

In addition, I think they only really started to get worn down by the heat when they were already half-way, or at least too far from the car to turn back where they came from. They probably thought they weren't that far away, despite using the AllTrails app, and that they could make it in time back to the car. As a user of the AllTrails app, I do have to say that while the shown distances are usually correct, you may often underestimate the trek itself (e.g. terrain much steeper than you thought, rocks in the walk path, etc.)

by Anonymousreply 56August 30, 2021 12:53 PM

For the dumbass

They were on a trail from 8 am Sunday to 11 am Tuesday. Temps on that trail reached 109 or higher during that time. 109 was registered in the shade 2 miles away. Temps in the canyon which had no trees and full sun exposure could have been higher at POINTS during that time. Get it now? The cooked from the inside out.

FFS.

by Anonymousreply 57August 30, 2021 12:54 PM

[quote]Yet they were on at trail for over 48 hours during which time NO ONE ELSE WAS ON THE TRAIL due to the fact that temps went up to 109.

You keep saying this and it sounds like you think they wandered around for 48 hours before dying.

For all we know they were walking on the trail for three hours and dead for 45 hours.

by Anonymousreply 58August 30, 2021 12:55 PM

They could not lean against a tree, R56, they burned down in a fire in 2018. The canyon has full sun exposure. Check out the Google Earth link on the prior thread to get a sense of the elevation and how exposed those switchbacks are. In the video of the helicopter linked in most SF Chron stories you can see the heat haze on Tuesday at 11. One LE person was overcome by heat then, it got far hotter on Sunday afternoon.

They likely has a false sense of superiority re: heat from their adventure tourism and Burning Man and maybe that was just their personalities. She said she did not want to do something like Gobi again due to the long time without showers, not that they did not plan to recreate in high heat again.

by Anonymousreply 59August 30, 2021 12:59 PM

They could not use the app on the trail, there was no cell coverage, R56.

by Anonymousreply 60August 30, 2021 1:00 PM

This person:

[quote]They were on a trail where temps were 109 from 8 am Sunday to 11 am Tuesday.

Later posted this:

[quote]Temps were not 109 at 8am or overnight dumbfuck but they were that high, or perhaps higher in the canyon during that time.

At this point it sounds like you're deliberately imprecise with your posts so you can bait people into replying and paying attention to you, at which point you then cuss them out and threaten them.

You're neither my problem nor my responsibility. Find someone else who wants to babysit your temper tantrums.

by Anonymousreply 61August 30, 2021 1:01 PM

R60, I have some apps that work without any reception. Not a lot, but a few. I have no idea how AllTrails works but he might have been able to access a map that was already in his cache or downloaded for use. He may have downloaded a photo, too.

Since he'd done the trail before, maybe he was trying to go off memory and was way off base.

by Anonymousreply 62August 30, 2021 1:02 PM

[quote]So then why on earth would they go on a treacherous hike in the burning heat, [R47]?

I don't know, r49, as I've said more than once. The thing is, you don't know, either. You just insist you do and go so far as to say your opinion is fact, then scream at everyone when they don't agree.

I have absolutely no idea what people like you get out of these threads.

by Anonymousreply 63August 30, 2021 1:05 PM

They were COOKING on the trail for much of that 48+ hour time before dead decomposed bodies were discovered.

They were wandering for about 7 miles per LE.

Then melted from the inside.

No one found them before 11 am Tuesday because no one else was using the trail in those conditions. Gee, I wonder why?

Thread 2 was much better than this. Y'all need to bake in a canyon.

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by Anonymousreply 64August 30, 2021 1:06 PM

Try as I might, I can’t understand why anyone would want to hike through a burned-out landscape. If you’re living in the woods, surely there are options for lovely, shaded trails. Why go on a death march through a post-apocalyptic hellscape?

by Anonymousreply 65August 30, 2021 1:11 PM

They cooked from the inside! They fried, they were sautéed!

The pooch was furry and had a double coat!

Did you hear they went to BURNING MAN? They posted about it ENDLESSLY, that time they went to BURNING MAN

Then they cooked from the inside out!

by Anonymousreply 66August 30, 2021 1:11 PM

Agree, R65. And not one other person used the trail during that time, it is known for wildflowers in the spring. Locals on the Mariposa Trail group say they would not hike it on an a hot August day. Forget what they "knew" from weather reports and apps read on Saturday. They had to SEE the grim desert like conditions and feel the heat, it was in the 90s an hour after they started and there is no tree cover. They had to see and feel the steepness of the trails. Arrogance and poor judgment seem to be big factors. What else would explain it except some kind of exercise addiction? Kreycik at least did not take out his own young daughter when he baked to death. The river is full of toxic algae and dead fish. What exactly was the draw here? And social media may have played a role along with their self image as doing extreme "adventures" just like Kreycik. She even has an insta tag #jellonadventures.

by Anonymousreply 67August 30, 2021 1:17 PM

At Burning Man there are medics and no one is hiking up steep trails, plus it cools off a lot at night. Temp there usually tops out at around 100, very different than 109. But, could give a false sense of mastery over "desert" conditions.

by Anonymousreply 68August 30, 2021 1:19 PM

R66, you know what would be cool? If you went to Burning Man, to give us the scoop, then threw yourself into the fire for the full experience!

by Anonymousreply 69August 30, 2021 1:20 PM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 70August 30, 2021 1:23 PM

For those who want or need to catch up

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by Anonymousreply 71August 30, 2021 1:26 PM

r68, I agree, there’s some kind of compulsion at work in this case and the case of the jogger, which I found similarly mystifying. Compulsion to exercise? Addition to endorphins? “Fear of missing out”? As a sedate and unadventurous person, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to grasp this mindset.

by Anonymousreply 72August 30, 2021 1:42 PM

^ “addiction”

by Anonymousreply 73August 30, 2021 1:42 PM

I'm the same r65 and I sometimes wonder if they didn't know it was a burned-out husk these days.

Gerrish had hiked it before but it was years ago, so maybe he had it confused with another nearby trail that was easier, and they didn't even bother to look anything up before they went, assuming it would be a quick early morning walk, something easy to take the baby and dog on. Then through either stubbornness or stupidity didn't turn back early enough and thought they could power through.

I keep thinking that they must have had some reason to keep going beyond being stubborn or stupid, but can't come up with anything. The dog ran ahead, maybe, and then kept going to catch up to him?

I'm not saying that there couldn't have been some kind of substance clouding their thinking but who gets high, packs up their gear and water, carefully drives to a trail, then goes walking? That just seems weird to me. Not impossible, but unlikely.

by Anonymousreply 74August 30, 2021 1:44 PM

A lot of people use in national parks, R74, you would be surprised. However, at 7:45 am with a baby in tow? Think it was their own arrogance and stupidity and compulsion (exercise, narcissism, social media, combo) without chemical assitance.

They and Kreycik were known for their "big adventures." In both cases they likely were less cautious close to home and in the case of these dead dumbasses, prior heat experiences were in the more protected environs of Burning Man or tours where someone else monitored conditions, planned water, etc.

LE has referenced testing one water bladder that had a small amount of water in it. Not sure how a 1 year old or dog were to drink from a camelback, you have to bite down, so there may have been other provisions that will be described later. Or not.

by Anonymousreply 75August 30, 2021 2:10 PM

....

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by Anonymousreply 76August 30, 2021 2:14 PM

[quote] oh look here, I found this photo from our trip to Indonesia last year.”

What do you think IG is for? ! Or FB and Twitter for that matter?

by Anonymousreply 77August 30, 2021 2:14 PM

R74 Gerrish HAD NOT previously hiked the Savage-Lundy Trail. This wrong information was posted in the previous thread, too. Gerrish had only previously hiked A PORTION of the easier Hite Cove Trail.

Did they make a wrong turn off of the Hite Cove Trail and end up on the punishing Savage-Lundy Trail? Or did they intentionally go from from the Hite Cove Trail onto the Savage Lundy-Trail with its scorched switchbacks?

I think the things on the trail(s) that would appeal to Gerrish would be swimming near Marble Point and visiting mines.

by Anonymousreply 78August 30, 2021 2:15 PM

Agree, R78 and the trail was almost walking distance from their house. But, picked a really poor day for their adventure.

by Anonymousreply 79August 30, 2021 2:19 PM

^^^ R62 Also posted wrong info about Gerrish previously hiking the trail. He had only hiked a portion of the Hite Cove Trail and had never been on the Savage-Lundy Trail.

by Anonymousreply 80August 30, 2021 2:21 PM

R78 Thanks for clarifying that. A sane person who had hiked it once wouldn't have hiked it again, under those conditions.

I'm glad that trail network is now closed.

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by Anonymousreply 81August 30, 2021 2:23 PM

R78, the AllTrails app says he hiked it 4 years ago. Are you saying this isn't the same trail? On Reddit they said it was.

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by Anonymousreply 82August 30, 2021 2:31 PM

R82, that was before the 2018 fires took out all the tree cover, something they would have seen as soon as they got out of the truck. In terms of heat on the trail a significant difference. Also, he was there in a different season.

by Anonymousreply 83August 30, 2021 2:33 PM

And here's the comment thread on Reddit where the OP of the timeline said he found that Gerrish had hiked it earlier.

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by Anonymousreply 84August 30, 2021 2:33 PM

Lack of common sense. Endemic in their generation and social class.

by Anonymousreply 85August 30, 2021 2:34 PM

It is a very common safety practice for hikers, campers and others recreating outdoors to tell someone of your route and expected time back. They appear to have skipped this step too.

by Anonymousreply 86August 30, 2021 2:35 PM

Agree, R85, arrogance is also a factor.

by Anonymousreply 87August 30, 2021 2:35 PM

R82, it is a bit confusing re:: what he actually hiked as AllTrails does not cover SL which HC connects to in a loop. So, we can't be sure if he was familiar with SL. You can see the switchbacks on the AllTrails map.

by Anonymousreply 88August 30, 2021 2:41 PM

R82 Hite Cove Trail and Savage-Lundy Trail are 2 different trails that meet. Savage-Lundy Trail is the more difficult one that has the switchbacks where the family died.

The Savage-Lundy Trail is highlighted in yellow in the map below.

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by Anonymousreply 89August 30, 2021 2:44 PM

I will be curious is they had a water filter with them as is a common practice (when toxic algae is not a factor). Or was there just the 1 CamelBack? What did they have for the 12 month old and dog as they could not use a CB?

Yes, R89, but AT does not cover the SL trail so we can't know if he had prior experience with it. You can see the switchbacks on the map but it is not even listed as a nearby trail. So, he could have done the loop but only the HC portion shows on his account.

by Anonymousreply 90August 30, 2021 2:46 PM

[quote] This was NEVER the Forest Service's fault.

I don't know what the Forest Service is like in other parts of the country, but from my experience with them in SoCal, they're woefully inept and unreliable. I would not rely on them for any sort of help or information.

by Anonymousreply 91August 30, 2021 2:46 PM

[quote]what he actually hiked as AllTrails does not cover SL which HC connects to in a loop. So, we can't be sure if he was familiar with SL.

R88 Correct. The Hite Cove Trail begins at HWY 140 and ends at Hite Cove. It does not include the loop to Savage-Lundy where they were found.

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by Anonymousreply 92August 30, 2021 2:48 PM

Right, but Savage-Lundy is connected to the Hite's Cove trail, correct?

I'm not on the AllTrails app but the AllTrails website reviews of Hite's Cove make it sound like the AllTrails entry for Hite's Cove is the one you want to use if you take Savage-Lundy, but "The depicted route does NOT include the descent to the river."

I looked this up when I first read about this a few days ago on that Reddit thread, now I'm wondering if he'd hiked the easier Hite's Cove years ago and this time accidentally went on Savage-Lundy? Surely they would have known they were on the wrong trail.

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by Anonymousreply 93August 30, 2021 2:49 PM

BUT WHERE IS THE GOFUNDME LINK!?

by Anonymousreply 94August 30, 2021 2:49 PM

Lol, R94, these folks did not need one.

Where is the friend who can opine on their mental state and who plied them with a single beer, thus dehydrating them and causing their death?

by Anonymousreply 95August 30, 2021 2:50 PM

[quote]Right, but Savage-Lundy is connected to the Hite's Cove trail, correct?

R93 I can see why it's confusing. There are trails and there are hikes. The Hite Cove Trail "hike" as described by the Forest Service (I linked at R92) is only part of the trail ending at Hite Cove.

I clarified in the first thread that the family parked off Hite Cove Road, which is south of the Hite Cove Trail trailhead at HWY 140. So that wasn't even the hike they embarked upon.

by Anonymousreply 96August 30, 2021 3:09 PM

LE has stated that they believed the family had completed most of the 8.5 mile LOOP, R96. Perhaps an exact route will be confirmed after the FBI finishes analyzing Jon's phone.

by Anonymousreply 97August 30, 2021 3:12 PM

Here is the Hike Cove Road hike. The family’s car was located down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale. If you zoom out on the linked map you can see how far south that was from HWY 140 and Hike Cove, the terminus of the Hite Cove Trail "hike"as described by the Forest Service (I linked at R92).

Someone even posted on AllTrails: [quote]Important for hikers to know that depicted hike is from Jerseydale (intersection) to gate at end of dirt road. The depicted route does NOT include the descent to the river.

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by Anonymousreply 98August 30, 2021 3:19 PM

** Hite

by Anonymousreply 99August 30, 2021 3:20 PM

Thanks r96. Even more confusing to me was that some of the Hite Cove Road reviews on AllTrails are the same as what's on Hite's Cove Trail hike, and both have people mentioning Savage-Lundy.

I saw that part too r98 and I thought what they meant was that the AllTrails map depicted Hite's Cove but not the Savage-Lundy loop that went down to the river.

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by Anonymousreply 100August 30, 2021 3:21 PM

The point is, we don't know if the family ever planned to end up on the Savage-Lundy "hellscape" as someone upthread aptly described it.

by Anonymousreply 101August 30, 2021 3:26 PM

For the hundredth time. You can have ALL of the fucking camelbacks in the world, but if heatstroke hits, it's not going to help you out. You have to cool your core temperature, which is no small feat. Even in the best case scenario, should you get to a hospital in time, where they administer ice baths and what little other treatment for this, there is only roughly a 20 percent success rate at saving your cooked ass. Even then, you might be alive but you may also have debilitating issues from damage to your internal organs, and varying degrees of brain damage. Some people get lucky, most don't. They were fucked, full stop.

by Anonymousreply 102August 30, 2021 3:29 PM

Between this family, the lesbian couple and the AHS Feral episode I'll be avoiding parks, State or National, for awhile.

by Anonymousreply 103August 30, 2021 3:34 PM

Very true, R102.

However, how much water they brought goes to the "experienced" label and how prepared they were for ANY hike, even at a slightly lower temp, for 4. A baby and a dog cannot bite down to drink from a camelback, so, maybe they had other water. If they did not but had a filter, maybe they had planned to get river water and were unable to. Yes, they would have baked to death if they had 50 gallons of water, but if they had 3L it goes to other issues.

by Anonymousreply 104August 30, 2021 3:37 PM

What is AHS Feral?

by Anonymousreply 105August 30, 2021 3:37 PM

Posts from people who hiked it recently said that it was no longer bare and that there was chaparral regrowth all over the trail to the point that trail work is needed to keep the trail open. Newish chaparral would probably be quite bushy and not provide much shade over the trail but they could likely have sat in the shade of the chaparral if needed. (Not that the shade would be much cooler).

by Anonymousreply 106August 30, 2021 3:45 PM

R105 It's an episode of American Horror Story that happens in nature.

by Anonymousreply 107August 30, 2021 3:48 PM

I know this was touched on already, but do a lot of people really get high when they hike? Is that really a big thing? And do that many people regularly get high?

Can you get heatstroke and die on the East Coast? Now I'm scared. Been trying to take more walks but I usually need an iced drink as I go.

How about this for a theory (though I don't believe it): The baby died of something else and they went out there to die and cover it up.

by Anonymousreply 108August 30, 2021 3:51 PM

R103 There are plenty of great parks and safe, shady hikes that are appropriate for families in summer. It's baffling that this family ended where they did.

by Anonymousreply 109August 30, 2021 3:53 PM

So, with no cell service, the couple would not know how *far* they were along on the trail? Like when they realized it was too hot, they thought it would be shorter to go ahead vs turning around but they were very mistaken about how much trail they’d covered.

Also I wonder why she didn’t bring her phone? It’s not like it’s heavy. I wonder if she did bring it but lost it on the way somehow. I haven’t read that it was found in the car or back at their condo.

by Anonymousreply 110August 30, 2021 3:57 PM

I was kidding R109 but it does seem we keep hearing stories like this with more frequency. Maybe people have lost common sense and need to learn to stay in areas that are more populated and take into account weather conditions, move when a creeper sets up camp near you and perhaps stay near other people (AHS).

by Anonymousreply 111August 30, 2021 3:57 PM

R111 Yes, that's important. When I'm backpacking I usually go with a group of adults.

by Anonymousreply 112August 30, 2021 4:12 PM

R108, I think a lot of people trip while camping in state parks, maybe not as much in the act of hiking, But, who knows?

by Anonymousreply 113August 30, 2021 4:14 PM

They did not live in a condo, R110, they owned several houses in the area. There is a photo of the house they lived in in the press coverage and there are photos on EC's Insta.

by Anonymousreply 114August 30, 2021 4:15 PM

Thanks, R107. Think I will skip, stuff of nightmares.

by Anonymousreply 115August 30, 2021 4:16 PM

What are switchbacks? Are they similar to slingbacks?

by Anonymousreply 116August 30, 2021 4:25 PM

Re: the trails, there is steep downhill and so of course at some point there is a steep uphill. If they meant a down and up they would have turned around. ISeems more likely they intended to do the loop, as is LE's theory. They had finished about 7 miles of the 8.5 before they cooked to the point of immobility and then death.

Down and up are easy to discern without trails. Kreycik getting off on a game trail was a more understandable mistake.

Loops can have a psychological effect on some re: pressing on and per her Insta captions they seemed to have a history of pushing through. Burning Man and adventure tourism likely gave them a false sense of security re: heat.

by Anonymousreply 117August 30, 2021 4:30 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 118August 30, 2021 4:34 PM

I can understand heedless parenting if it is a pleasurable activity for the parents that is the driver. For example, a friend was swept out by a wave and saved by a stranger as a toddler while her parents were getting blasted on the beach with friends. But what about this was pleasurable or had a reward factor for the adults? It had to be miserable. The kid and pack would weigh around 25 lbs and trap sweat, pushing his temp up. She was wearing a camelback backpack, not has heavy but still impeding airflow. Where was the reward for the adults? The sun is beating down and heat is radiating up from the trail. Theories?

by Anonymousreply 119August 30, 2021 4:46 PM

The were OWNING nature, man!

by Anonymousreply 120August 30, 2021 4:48 PM

R118 she obviously died from heatstroke because her date was so hot

by Anonymousreply 121August 30, 2021 4:49 PM

I would think it likely that Jon or Ellen or both were wearing biometric watches or rings, they are very popular, esp on the west coast. That would give data like time of death.

by Anonymousreply 122August 30, 2021 5:08 PM

Maybe, R120. But this really does not sound at all fun, hip, etc. If they had done 7 miles of the loop they were out for hours. The uphill looks really daunting on SL and the trail is said to be in poor condition.

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by Anonymousreply 123August 30, 2021 5:11 PM

Heat exhaustion and heat stroke come on so quickly. Once it progresses to heat stroke it is very difficult to treat on the trail. Avoiding conditions that may lead to it is the wisest course.

If hiking with a group it is good to have a mix of more cautious types. Rather than everyone being types who push through relying on "breath" and "spirit dogs" etc. For many, prior close calls or parenthood do impact risk taking behavior.

by Anonymousreply 124August 30, 2021 5:22 PM

Surprised our favorite LV Bellagio maid isn't posting about UFO and Bigfoot sightings in our park system.

by Anonymousreply 125August 30, 2021 5:28 PM

Anyone considering hiking in wilderness areas should consider bringing a satellite phone or personal locator beacon (pricey but may save your life).

by Anonymousreply 126August 30, 2021 6:00 PM

The 'all the gear and no idear' statement from the wife was so flippant and stupid. These are the sort of privileged twits that depend on guides to do everything for them. Reminds me a lot of (see link). Anyhow like zillions of others of said I feel absolutely heartbroken for their gorgeous baby and dog. They must of suffered horribly thanks to their vacuous and narcissistic parents/owner.

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by Anonymousreply 127August 30, 2021 6:19 PM

LE's satellite phone did not get service where they were found, they had to hike out to get a connection. It's my understanding that a PLB works differently, but, anyone have direct experience?

by Anonymousreply 128August 30, 2021 6:26 PM

R118 Fuck me but that cop was HOT !

by Anonymousreply 129August 30, 2021 6:46 PM

So weird that the initial autopsies did not find evidence of heat stroke in ANY of the victims.

by Anonymousreply 130August 30, 2021 7:08 PM

Even stupid people will check the hourly weather forecast for the day before embarking on a day trip outdoors anywhere...

by Anonymousreply 131August 30, 2021 7:15 PM

Stop the bullshit troll at R130. Blocking.

[quote] Causes of Death Ruled Out: The following have been ruled out based on evidence recovered or through investigation. ALL other potential causes of death remain. Gun or any other type of weapon. Chemical hazards along the Savage Lundy trail.

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by Anonymousreply 132August 30, 2021 7:25 PM

Difference between stupid and arrogant = death, R131.

by Anonymousreply 133August 30, 2021 7:26 PM

R54 : That morbid thought popped into my head, too, when I realized their bodies were out on the trail for two nights. A hiker who reviewed the Savage-Lundy trail in 2015 (before the Ferguson Fire) noted seeing "plenty" of coyote, bobcat , and bear scat along the trail. I'm not sure about bears & bobcats...but coyotes would NOT have been deterred by decomposition, and definitely would have gone after the dog.

I would imagine the mountainside along Savage-Lundy is no longer visited by coyotes, bears & bobcats very often because it is still somewhat of a hell-scape (relatively speaking) and there aren't as many small mammals (their natural prey) living there.

by Anonymousreply 134August 30, 2021 7:30 PM

[quote] I would imagine the mountainside along Savage-Lundy is no longer visited by coyotes, bears & bobcats very often because it is still somewhat of a hell-scape (relatively speaking) and there aren't as many small mammals (their natural prey) living there.

In other words, humans are the only animals stupid enough to be in that desolate area.

by Anonymousreply 135August 30, 2021 7:32 PM

Pretty good summary, R135.

Locals do hike the area in spring, when it is known for wildflowers and fall, both seasons are far cooler. No one else was on the trail on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday morning, so, not many humans made the same call. Extreme heat warning, particulates in air from fires, 109 degrees, lots of other hikes nearby that would be cooler.

by Anonymousreply 136August 30, 2021 7:40 PM

Music

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by Anonymousreply 137August 30, 2021 7:56 PM

Does the locator beacon come with “will pay for helicopter rescue”?

by Anonymousreply 138August 30, 2021 7:58 PM

Pretty sure that is on the taxpayer, R138, another reason to start the practice of closing trails due to unsafe heat conditions.

by Anonymousreply 139August 30, 2021 7:59 PM

109 degrees sounds just lovely to me. That's chilly by comparison.

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by Anonymousreply 140August 30, 2021 8:36 PM

I’m kind of amazed we’re still talking about this. Has anyone said anything new or interesting in the last 900 posts?

by Anonymousreply 141August 30, 2021 9:44 PM

No one has topped your scintillating post, R141. Well done!

by Anonymousreply 142August 30, 2021 9:53 PM

Just the hot cop at r118, r141. Otherwise, not even remotely.

by Anonymousreply 143August 30, 2021 10:43 PM

What hot cop. On this case?

by Anonymousreply 144August 30, 2021 10:45 PM

Can't you go to r118 for the link?

by Anonymousreply 145August 30, 2021 10:58 PM

I did R145 but it was odd because I couldn't see R118 on original scroll but then it appeared. Weird.

by Anonymousreply 146August 30, 2021 11:03 PM

Oh well. Stupid is…

by Anonymousreply 147August 30, 2021 11:03 PM

One of the first signs of heatstroke is lock jaw. Get liquids down your throat and don't stop or it will get worse. I speak from knowledge.

by Anonymousreply 148August 31, 2021 1:34 AM

I always knew the sun was deadly. It’s best to avoid it.

by Anonymousreply 149August 31, 2021 4:46 AM

Why would you bring a young child on any hike never mind a hot one?

by Anonymousreply 150August 31, 2021 4:48 AM

^^ you're the first to ask this question.

by Anonymousreply 151August 31, 2021 5:52 AM

[Quote] Why would you bring a young child on any hike never mind a hot one?

It's important in life to see how far you can go.

by Anonymousreply 152August 31, 2021 9:51 AM

......

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by Anonymousreply 153August 31, 2021 11:23 AM

[quote]For the hundredth time.

I've had sufficient.

by Anonymousreply 154August 31, 2021 11:34 AM

[quote]These idiots wanted notoriety amongst their peers

I don't follow. Please explain.

by Anonymousreply 155August 31, 2021 11:35 AM

155 replies and no new information.

by Anonymousreply 156August 31, 2021 11:36 AM

R150 well that question has been asked 1000 times - glad you asked it again

by Anonymousreply 157August 31, 2021 11:39 AM

Cinesnatch, you are so fucking tedious and lazy. You do this a LOT.

Go back and read the last threads. Then you will know what r155 is talking about.

by Anonymousreply 158August 31, 2021 11:43 AM

Sorry, I meant you will know what r4 is talking about.

The rest of my post stands.

by Anonymousreply 159August 31, 2021 11:45 AM

[quote]Cinesnatch, you are so fucking tedious and lazy. You do this a LOT ... Go back and read the last threads .., The rest of my post stands.

This is what I found: "I don't see where you see they were heavy social media users. The wife's last posts on Instagram were January 2021, August 2020, March 2020, and October 2019. Five posts in almost two years. No links to her husband's accounts or other social media."

How about you fuck off, asshole.

by Anonymousreply 160August 31, 2021 11:49 AM

Such rapier wit, r160

Seriously, go back and read the other threads, and take your comprehension issues with you.

by Anonymousreply 161August 31, 2021 11:54 AM

Circle Torso, people

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by Anonymousreply 162August 31, 2021 11:54 AM

R153 Thanks for posting. Temporary closure of National Forests in CA due to wildfire danger.

[quote]VALLEJO, Calif., — August 30, 2021. To better provide public and firefighter safety due to the ongoing California wildfire crisis, USDA Forest Service Pacific Southwest Region is announcing a temporary closure of all National Forests in California. This closure will be in effect from Aug. 31, 2021 at 11:59 p.m. through September 17, 2021 at 11:59 p.m. This order does not affect the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest, which is not in the Pacific Southwest Region.

[quote]“We do not take this decision lightly but this is the best choice for public safety,” said Regional Forester Jennifer Eberlien. “It is especially hard with the approaching Labor Day weekend, when so many people enjoy our national forests.”

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by Anonymousreply 163August 31, 2021 12:13 PM

Everyone posting re: lack of "news" can fuck right off this thread. Block the trolls and it becomes much more readable. If you just want headlines when the tox screens come back, check the SF Chron and get off this thread. Mwah!

by Anonymousreply 164August 31, 2021 1:11 PM

Blocking trolls causes issues with thread loading. Just ease up on posting until there's news to discuss.

by Anonymousreply 165August 31, 2021 2:50 PM

No one's mentioned the fact that younger, fitter, second wives can kill you when you try to keep up.

by Anonymousreply 166August 31, 2021 3:03 PM

Was she his second wife?

by Anonymousreply 167August 31, 2021 3:40 PM

Thread police, feel free to bounce. FFS, over and over you spam the thread with bullshit. Stick to the newspaper if you don't like the thread.

by Anonymousreply 168August 31, 2021 3:47 PM

What is circle torso? Was she his second wife?

I've had an argument with Cinesnatch in the past, but he's brave to sign his post. I've stopped doing that for a while because people seem to be nicer when they don't know who you are.

by Anonymousreply 169August 31, 2021 4:04 PM

Physician r168, heal thyself.

by Anonymousreply 170August 31, 2021 4:18 PM

R163, well that's extreme and unnecessary. Good luck to them enforcing that.

by Anonymousreply 171August 31, 2021 4:22 PM

Likely trying to cut down on any possible fire risks that can be controlled - humans can be barred, lightening cannot be prevented. They are more than maxed out on current firefighting capacity.

by Anonymousreply 172August 31, 2021 4:47 PM

Sierra National Forest closed numerous hiking trails, picnic areas and campgrounds, citing “unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail,” where a Mariposa family was mysteriously found dead two weeks ago.

The closures went into effect Sunday and extend through Sept. 26.

The Sierra closures started just a day before the U.S. Forest Service shared it will close all 20 million acres of California’s national forests beginning Tuesday until at least Sept. 17 due to “extreme fire conditions,” The Sacramento Bee first reported.

by Anonymousreply 173August 31, 2021 4:51 PM

The Fresno Bee had a new article re: algae, won't link

by Anonymousreply 174August 31, 2021 4:51 PM

R172, I agree with why they're doing it, but just doubt they have the resources to enforce it. Last time they shut down the Angeles National Forest, people cut the locks from the gate and it became a no man's land.

by Anonymousreply 175August 31, 2021 5:38 PM

It will deter some, R175. CA has pulled fire fighting teams from other states and cannot keep up, so trying all the levers.

Had the trail been closed, these particular dumbasses likely would not have gone on it.

My guess is that the backpack carrier was new, maybe even a birthday gift. Hot as they are, it is not as hot as the type of carrier they used when she was small. So, gung ho all in on the local nearby trail. Details like the weather? Hey, we've pushed through a guided tour of this and that adventure and BM, all of which had safety features this outing lacked. People are not good at evaluating risk nor is the population well educated about heat. They hear about Kreycik and think, "Well, I'm not running 6 min miles in heat, just hiking up steep trails, so I will be A-ok." Still stumped re: the thinking re the 12 month old and double coated older dog. People who heard about this family will discount it too, I'm hiking in death valley, not near mines or algae or whatever mixed messaging registered. And they will keep going out and keep dying.

by Anonymousreply 176August 31, 2021 5:56 PM

How about this - maybe they cooked from the OUTSIDE IN!!!! Ever thought about that?

by Anonymousreply 177August 31, 2021 6:12 PM

[quote]The Sierra closures started just a day before the U.S. Forest Service shared it will close all 20 million acres of California’s national forests beginning Tuesday until at least Sept. 17 due to “extreme fire conditions,”

I didn't catch this part earlier when I read about the closures, I thought all the trails closed on the same day, now I realize that Savage-Lundy closed a day earlier because of those "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." I'm really itching to find out what that tox report says.

by Anonymousreply 178August 31, 2021 6:14 PM

[Quote] maybe they cooked from the OUTSIDE IN!!!!

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by Anonymousreply 179August 31, 2021 6:20 PM

Nature can be dangerous, even if picturesque

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by Anonymousreply 180August 31, 2021 6:20 PM

Something tells me that 125 bucks a night will be lowered for the foreseeable future.

by Anonymousreply 181August 31, 2021 6:22 PM

Was it a rescue dog?

by Anonymousreply 182August 31, 2021 6:35 PM

Thoughts of a vet:

" [B]ut felt I could shed some more light on this topic as an ER vet who has treated many cases of canine heatstroke, albeit some to no avail. I work in the PNW, where summers are fairly mild but the recreation opportunities abound. We had an unprecedented heatwave at the beginning of June where temperatures reached the low 100s & the night time low was only ~80. We treated (& lost) so many patients to heatstroke in those few days, many from just attempting simple walks around their neighborhood. Most people were not used to the heat & as very few have central AC the overheating process they kicked into gear on their walks, had a hard time getting reversed once they got home.

Dogs don’t sweat, they can only release their heat through panting & evaporative (sweating) through their paw pads. This makes them much more susceptible to overheating than people as the temperature of the ground will directly impact their ability to cool (or will contribute to drive their temperature higher).

I have dogs Oski’s size & coat length, & even here in a more moderate climate, I am very careful about not taking them on exposed hikes with little shade if it gets above 80. In the summer I preferentially hike along or to water, pack water for them, & take plenty of shade breaks along the way. As others have said, in the type of heat they were attempting a venture in, you could not pack enough water to hike comfortably & safely for just a solitary person & dog… let alone 2 adults & an infant. The amount you’d need to pack & number of breaks you’d need to take in the beating sun would make it very unenjoyable. I wouldn’t attempt a hike at all with a dog when it’s in the 90s unless it was less than a mile & fairly flat & shaded. MOO from seeing the worst of the worst.

On the note of Cyanobacteria/blue-green algae. Not all blue-green algae contains the harmful cyanobacteria & not all cyanobacteria contains the neurotoxin which contains the very fast death factor (VFDF). All of which, needs to be consumed to affect the individual, which is why you’ll find lots of case studies about dogs but few about people (they just can’t help themselves when they swim). They would not be affected by VFDF from contact, they would have had to take at least a good healthy swig of it. The VFDF hits very rapidly with staggering, seizures, death. Usually within 45 min from ingestion. Most dogs that get this are DOA once they arrive. I have known 1 or 2 dogs that were able to get into a vet clinic very quickly between seizures & death & be induced into a medical coma on a ventilator for days & survive it. These are VERY rare cases (one belonged to a vet & so was intubated/bagged during transport off the trail, which made survival possible). The harmful Cyanobacteria lacking VFDF (which I think is more common) usually takes several hours prior to onset of clinical signs & is usually more gastrointestinal in onset.

My last thought is that I don’t expect any of the autopsies/necropsy to be too conclusive. All 4 of those bodies sat out in sweltering heat for >48hrs, that will lead to a lot of confounding postmortem changes. Had they been taken off the trail the night they died, I think signs of heatstroke would likely be more readily apparent.

As others have theorized, I think this is a tragic case of overestimation of ability & lack of foresight regarding temperatures. I think it is highly likely the dog was the first to succumb & was likely carried, which lead to more exertion & stress in the people & then a domino effect with the heat & being on those exposed switchbacks. Very sad but hope it is a case that others can learn from when setting out for causal adventures with their pets & kids."

by Anonymousreply 183August 31, 2021 7:17 PM

R182 dunno...but it looks like he needed to be rescued.

by Anonymousreply 184August 31, 2021 7:24 PM

Sierra National Forest officials closed a portion of trails in Mariposa County where a family and their dog were found dead under mysterious circumstances this month, citing unspecified safety concerns.

The month-long closure was to “provide for public safety due to unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail,” according to the order. The closure will last until Sept. 26, although rangers can reopen the trails if conditions change.

Officials have not ruled out water toxicity as a contributing factor in the family’s death as they await the results of water tests taken from the area where the family was found.

“We are uncertain of the causes of death. We still haven’t gotten the results from the case,” said Leak Pen, assistant recreation officer at the Bass Lake Ranger District, which oversees that portion of the Sierra National Forest. “So, as a precaution, let’s go ahead and close it because we know there’s some form of hazard to the public.”

The closure affects nine trails, six picnic sites and the dirt Forest Road that leads to the Hites Cove trailhead. The 8.5-mile loop between Hites Cove and Savage Lundy trails is steep and challenging, and mostly popular during the cooler spring months, Pen said.

The district took two weeks to close the trail to figure out the logistics of shuttering such a large area and when they realized answers for the deaths were still far off, Pen said.

Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, their 1-year-old baby Miju and their dog Oski were all found dead Aug. 17 about 1.5 miles below their truck, which was parked at the Hites Cove trailhead. There were no obvious signs of death, which led the Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office to initially close the area and deem it a hazardous materials scene.

Toxicology reports are still pending, leading investigators to wait to list a cause of death, but last week they ruled out any weapons being used or dangerous gases from a mine along the trail. The FBI is trying to access Gerrish’s cell phone which was found in his pocket. State water officials and private labs are also testing water samples from the south fork of the Merced River and creeks along the trail, as well as a small amount of water from the couple’s water bladder backpack.

Temperatures reached 109 degrees the day they hiked, investigators have said.

Pen said one water test has come back positive for harmful algae bloom, or HAB. Others have turned up no toxic substances and still other tests are outstanding. Officials had already warned hikers of such blooms a month before the deaths along the south fork of the Merced River, so that result is not a surprise. Such freshwater blooms are not known to kill humans.

“Because of the heat there’s a chance they may have drank the water or tried to treat the water, but we don’t know,” Pen said. “It’s very mysterious and we’re all just waiting for the results.”

The Sierra National Forest closure coincides with a statewide shutdown of all national forestlands through Labor Day due to dangerous fire conditions and taxed firefighting crews. All 20 million acres of the state’s national forests will be closed to the public effective at midnight Tuesday.

“We do not take this decision lightly but this is the best choice for public safety,” said Regional Forester Jennifer Eberlien.

The Forest Service had already closed nine of its national forests in Northern California on Aug. 22 for fire precautions.

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by Anonymousreply 185August 31, 2021 8:27 PM

R183 Thanks for posting that. Just curious, what is the source?

by Anonymousreply 186August 31, 2021 8:33 PM

An anonymous vet, R186.

by Anonymousreply 187August 31, 2021 8:44 PM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 188August 31, 2021 8:45 PM

One thing I don't get is that this was not unexpected heat. It was 105 the day before the hike and there were extreme heat warnings and warnings re: poor air quality due to the fires.

by Anonymousreply 189August 31, 2021 8:46 PM

I didn't know they were only 1.5 miles from their car. That's only a 30 min walk.

by Anonymousreply 190August 31, 2021 8:49 PM

2000 foot change in elevation and direct sun with no shade = bit more challenging, R190.

by Anonymousreply 191August 31, 2021 8:54 PM

If one of the parents had survived do we think they would be facing criminal charges?

by Anonymousreply 192August 31, 2021 8:54 PM

R192- Very possible that he/she would. If the baby had survived, possibly with brain damage, I would think so. Does anyone think her disability was psychiatric? If she was bipolar, for example, she could have been in a manic phase . That may explain her lack of planning and reckless behavior. A poster on WS mentioned her disability and made the excellent point that it can't be medical because she had hiked, including the Gobi. I am sure WS wouldn't allow speculation on this because they treat posters like naughty children and chide them frequently. I couldn't bear to be censored nor could I be condescended to that way. Just no.

by Anonymousreply 193August 31, 2021 9:17 PM

Remember those idiot parents who hiked the Appalachian trail with their six kids (including a toddler)?

Let's hope they don't hear about this trail.

by Anonymousreply 194August 31, 2021 9:22 PM

R186, R183/R187 is DL's resident OCD Websleuths cunt. She is responsible for thousands of repetitive posts here and on the Kreycik and Piedmont Park threads. Put her on ignore and see for yourself.

I'm not a gambler, but I would bet anything that the vet post came from Websleuths.

by Anonymousreply 195August 31, 2021 9:28 PM

R195- IT did. I read it as the vet posted it. Lol. Word for word.

by Anonymousreply 196August 31, 2021 9:30 PM

A vet's experience with heat stroke in animals seemed interesting and relevant to me given the dead dog, thought others might want to read it too. I learned of WS on a Kreycik thread. Have been here since the 90s. If you don't want to read my posts, block away boys! I've blocked several of you.

by Anonymousreply 197August 31, 2021 9:36 PM

Sure enough, R196! She even cut off the part that would identify it as a Websleuths post.

Post #14 at the link:

[quote]On/off lurker for several WS case follows, so had to finally make an account to comment on this one, but felt I could shed some more light on this topic as an ER vet who has treated many cases of canine heatstroke, albeit some to no avail.

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by Anonymousreply 198August 31, 2021 9:40 PM

She was studying for a degree in family counseling so it could not have been too disabling. He made a lot of money, her post implied she wanted to get out of corporate work and do something "meaningful" thus becoming a yoga teacher and pursuing a counseling career. Many who go into that field have issues is the stereotype but could have been something else besides a psych issue. Would Lyme have impacted pregnancy? It's not clear if she had dialed back the hiking or not, he seemed to use his AllTrails more but she could have been hiking and just not recording it.

by Anonymousreply 199August 31, 2021 9:45 PM

R197- It was not my my intention to insult you, I enjoy your posts and find them very interesting and informative. It just so happened that I was reading WS at the same time that was posted and I was joking about the timing, not the fact that you posted that here. It was interesting. So my apologies if it seemed like I was complaining/ being sarcastic. I promise I wasn't. I think the poor little dog went first and one or both adults tried to carry him out. They then were overcome with hyperthermia. If they had gone to the water and stayed cooled down until the sun and temperature went down they may have made it. We will never really know what happened or what their state of mind was. By the time someone realizes they are having a heat stroke, they are usually unable to save themselves because you become paralyzed. I did. If there hadn't been people with me to get me to safety and cool me down until EMT's arrived, I would have died. They were too far up the trail to do anything about heat stroke and didn't have water, ice, or even shade. It must have been a hellish death, made even more hellish because they must have had to watch the two little ones die. Just brutal. They both made a deadly mistake and paid dearly for it. Nightmare inducing really.

by Anonymousreply 200August 31, 2021 10:06 PM

Runners, bicyclists, hikers-they make me tired.

by Anonymousreply 201August 31, 2021 10:28 PM

Thanks, R200, I did not block you because I have enjoyed your posts on other threads. It may have been you who hipped me to WS which I had never heard of. As annoying as it can be there a lot of good articles are posted, or things like this vet take. Esp valuable given her ownership of dogs the size and furriness of poor dead Oski. The other cunty poster is hilarious in his obsession with me and his ramblings about my posts on threads I do not frequent. I am not a big true crime person, too dark and creepy in these difficult times. I have friends who to to true crime events and such. I like to get outdoors on the weekends so could relate to these people and Kreycik.

I have also had a heat related emergency, glad we both survived it is nothing to take lightly at all and prevention is the wisest strategy. Had there not been people who helped me, and nearby ice and air con, not sure how my incident would have turned out. That is why I marveled at Kreycik getting himself under a tree, I did not, I stayed in the sun. I am very careful about heat now, got lucky once, might not happen again. I don't trail run anymore but do still hike.

It probably felt like a cross between hiking in a pizza over and climbing Everest. 109 was 2 miles away in the shade. The sun beating down and the heat radiating up and the dryness of that air is a 1-2-3 that saps all energy and moisture.

In photos where she is holding the dog you can see how petite the woman is. I am not sure she could physically carry the dog up SL given how steep it is + the heat. The baby would have been about 25 lbs plus in the carrier, wearing that might have been close to a 1/4 - 1/5 of her weight. I think Jon was carrying the dog and wearing the backpack. (Given the difference in size of the parents it would have been hard to adjust the pack to such a degree on the trail too.) The dog plus 25 lbs of baby and carrier would be a significant fraction of his weight too. Another factor besides the heat itself and dehydration is electrolytes. Wonder if they even had salty and sweet snacks and electrolyte tablets? The amount of salt you can lose very quickly is significant. Had the river not been full of dead fish and algae and had they been thinking more clearly, hanging there and waiting for the sun to move off the switchbacks could have been life saving. Had they split up earlier may have changed the outcome but the urge to stay together is strong and I am sure they did not want to leave the dog.

In the photos of the baby in a hat I am guessing that is her 1st birthday in early August. The mom looks strained to me, not like the young influencer / party girl she had been and she was only what, 30? But, still think it was a mix of arrogance and ignorance. Some with a TBI have ongoing issues with heat, and some with prescription meds, but, she seems to have been the last on her feet. If the guy had been physically able I believe he would have taken the baby out and held her. Horrific stuff. People don't understand that you can't move, your brain, nervous system and muscles are not fully under control when the body is overheating.

I hope people learn from this and it saves some lives. Not sure why they did not learn from Kreycik. People are more likely to survive hypothermia than hyperthermia.

Netflix and chill when there is a heat advisory.

by Anonymousreply 202August 31, 2021 10:41 PM

Oh god this is getting fucking beyond tedious. I don't know why they aren't pushing the tox screen to the front. Just in case it isn't stupidity plus heat stroke, if there is more, the public should have the right to know it, so any delay is unhelpful at best. If they were indeed on something, well, the public needs to know that too. They were hardly important enough that this information would be withed.

Glad the Forest Service has closed most of the trails, that said, assholes--like these two--would just hop over the gate.

by Anonymousreply 203August 31, 2021 11:05 PM

New today re: samples from river, not from their CB

“We are uncertain of the causes of death. We still haven’t gotten the results from the case,” said Leak Pen, assistant recreation officer at the Bass Lake Ranger District. “So, as a precaution, let’s go ahead and close it [the trails] because we know there’s some form of hazard to the public.”

Pen said one water was tested back positive for toxic algae bloom. Others have turned up no toxic substances, and still other tests are outstanding.

“Because of the heat there’s a chance they may have drank the water or tried to treat the water but we don’t know.” Pen said. “It’s very mysterious and we’re just all waiting for the results.”

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by Anonymousreply 204August 31, 2021 11:13 PM

That they are using language like "mysterious" is so fucking dumb there are no words.

by Anonymousreply 205August 31, 2021 11:14 PM

Agree, R205.

For the non-hikers, it is not uncommon for people to filter water on the trail, there are a variety of small, light products that do a good job filtering. They would not be able to filter out the algae toxins. Water is heavy to carry so it is a normal practice, except when there are toxic algae blooms. I thought they might have a filter with them if they only had one water bladder which was not remotely what would be needed. Still not sure how that bladder would work for a baby and a dog, you have to bite down on a tube to get the water out. LE will know if a filter was found in their gear.

by Anonymousreply 206August 31, 2021 11:18 PM

And again, all of the fucking drinking temperature water in the world would not have saved them once heat stroke hit. You don't know you have it until (usually) it is far too late.

by Anonymousreply 207August 31, 2021 11:24 PM

The photos in this blog posted on WS re: SL trail really give a sense of the depth of the canyon. The writer and friend noped out of their hike on SL, in spring/May when it would have been much cooler. This was before all the trees burned down in 2018. Heat and worries about a dog with them and having enough water were the factors that made them turn around. In August with a heat warning, they would have felt the heat when they got out of the truck. It is inexplicable except for some psychological reason or pride or arrogance. In the blog, one hiker was reluctant to not go on into the Devil's Gulch canyon b/c of never turning around on a hike before/pride/arrogance. That trail is no joke. Can you imagine hiking out in direct sun after having been out for HOURS?

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by Anonymousreply 208August 31, 2021 11:29 PM

Exactly, R207. A helicopter in which they would be packed in ice may not have saved them.

Even if it had been 80, one water bladder would not have been sufficient for 2 adults a baby and a dog to hike that loop unless there was a potable water source and they had a filter. Maybe they were like Kreycik and liked to travel light, who knows? Usually new parents bring way too much stuff.

by Anonymousreply 209August 31, 2021 11:32 PM

Regarding R208, I can't get into the mindset of you people who would look to hike that canyon for fun, much less with baby. Baffled. Hope more info comes soon.

by Anonymousreply 210September 1, 2021 12:29 AM

Thank you, R202. I totally agree that people who have never suffered a heat incident have no idea how helpless you become and how frighteningly fast it happens. You have only 30 minutes to lower cote temperature at that point. 30 minutes. Their decision to hike in that temperature with a baby and a dog is baffling. It would have been dangerous on any of the trails but they chose the hottest, most difficult, hellish one and without even packing adequate supplies. I am very curious about their relationship dynamic. I wonder who was the decision maker, the leader because one is always dominant in every relationship. He was in his mid-forties so a decade or so older. One would think he would be the more cautious, protective one.

by Anonymousreply 211September 1, 2021 12:30 AM

R211: That should be core, not whatever I wrote, 😆

by Anonymousreply 212September 1, 2021 12:31 AM

R183 I appreciated your post. It's always interesting to hear from doctors or vets or coroners, etc.

by Anonymousreply 213September 1, 2021 12:43 AM

Thanks, R213,

by Anonymousreply 214September 1, 2021 12:49 AM

I like to hike and that trail still looks steep, R210. The wildflowers are pretty. It was striking in the blog account that the Boy Scouts were finishing their hike when they were starting. Early means FINISH early and that blog was about a May hike not August with a heat emergency. .

Adding 25 lbs is not nothing in weight and I do not see Ellen as large enough to carry either the baby or the dog up that steep trail. What would Oski be? 45-50 lbs? With sections of SL being in poor condition that would up the physical toll of plodding through or going around.

Stuff of nightmares.

by Anonymousreply 215September 1, 2021 12:55 AM

R215- I agree and I wonder if they just looked at the pretty flowers and pictures and that was the end of their research? I had to do a lot of research to get accurate information about that trail. The steep incline, the fire damage that left no trees for shade. The app he used didn't even have that trail on it. It took a lot of research for me to get a true look at the difficulty of the SLT. I would never dare hike that trail this time of year, and would never take a baby & pet with no matter the weather.

by Anonymousreply 216September 1, 2021 1:54 AM

He was on the Mariposa Trails FB group, he could have asked or searched there.

by Anonymousreply 217September 1, 2021 2:20 AM

R183 was interesting, thanks. It's basically exactly what most of us have assumed and commented, but coming from a medical professional is more meaningful. It also addresses the claim (often repeated on these threads) that there were no signs of heatstroke.

by Anonymousreply 218September 1, 2021 6:00 AM

R 197 is not posting information from an expert or a medical professional.

You guys know that, right? It's an anonymous self-proclaimed expert posting on Websleuths. Please, you guys can't be this gullible.

R 197 is an enormous pest, she's constantly cussing people out, demanding people she doesn't like be FFed and blocked by everyone else, but then hypocritically screaming at the top of her lungs about others being "the thread police." So far not a single person she's called a troll has actually BEEN a troll. She's on all these true crime threads posting Websleuths stuff and trying to make people believe that these anonymous comments are expert opinion worth more than legitimate news sources.

by Anonymousreply 219September 1, 2021 7:34 AM

I've thought the same things myself r216, but I keep thinking that if they got off Hite's Cove and accidentally ended up on Savage-Lundy, surely they would have realized it? The trail almost immediately turns into switchbacks down a steep descent. But maybe they'd gone too far and the temps went up too quickly by the time they realized they'd made a huge mistake.

For some reason we can't link to the Fresno Bee article but the one titled "‘Hazards’ around site of Mariposa family’s death prompt Sierra forest closure order" has a really good map showing those switchbacks.

by Anonymousreply 220September 1, 2021 7:44 AM

[quote]It would have been dangerous on any of the trails but they chose the hottest, most difficult, hellish one and without even packing adequate supplies.

I think it's possible they didn't choose it, that they meant to stay on the easier Hite's Cove trail and not get off onto the difficult Savage-Lundy trail. Not that walking/hiking Hite's Cove with a dog and a baby was a good idea, but it was a marginally less stupid idea than going on the Savage-Lundy trail.

by Anonymousreply 221September 1, 2021 7:45 AM

I wouldn't hesitate to leave the dog behind. There has to be hierarchy in a household.

by Anonymousreply 222September 1, 2021 9:28 AM

Those people were so goddamn stupid, it makes me hurt. How can you be so smart and so lacking in common sense at the same time?

by Anonymousreply 223September 1, 2021 11:35 AM

R223 Maybe if you're on drugs. We'll find out soon enough.

by Anonymousreply 224September 1, 2021 12:14 PM

It is even harder to understand with all of the publicity that Kreycik just received for his related death in their area, R224. Often when "what were they thinking" makes no sense, I suspect they were not thinking at all.

Had to be miserable from the time they got out of the truck and likely too hot for the dog very early on.

by Anonymousreply 225September 1, 2021 12:20 PM

R219, an "official" source for you re: heat stroke in dogs

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by Anonymousreply 226September 1, 2021 12:24 PM

R219 an "official" source re: algae toxicity in dogs

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by Anonymousreply 227September 1, 2021 12:25 PM

R219 an "official" source re: illnesses and deaths due the recent heat wave in PNW

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by Anonymousreply 228September 1, 2021 12:28 PM

In the Fresno Bee article that won't link for some reason, LE states that the family left for the hike "mid-morning." Previously it had been reported that they were seen driving in the direction of the trail at 7:45. Perhaps they discovered info they did something else first, maybe breakfast? It was reported that they posted a photo of the backpack on social media at 6:45 am.

[quote] Mariposa County Sheriff Jeremy Briese said Wednesday that toxic algae is one hazard being considered by investigators working to determine how the family died.

[quote] Some people have also questioned whether the family was killed by lightning, noting some lightning was present in the area on Saturday. In response, Kristie Mitchell, Mariposa County sheriff spokesperson, said the family didn’t leave for their hike until mid-morning Sunday, but added that detectives “are looking at all possibilities.”

[quote] Her office didn’t have any new updates on Thursday afternoon about the investigation or autopsies.

by Anonymousreply 229September 1, 2021 12:48 PM

From the Fresno Bee: "Some people have also questioned whether the family was killed by lightning, noting some lightning was present in the area on Saturday."

In response, Kristie Mitchell, Mariposa County sheriff spokesperson, said the family didn’t leave for their hike until MID-MORNING Sunday, but added that detectives “are looking at all possibilities."

by Anonymousreply 230September 1, 2021 12:51 PM

R219, as I have posted, I've been on DL almost since the beginning. I'm a guy, not a woman. Your homophobia and misogyny in your rants is par for the course here.

I had unblocked you because I enjoyed your posts on another thread but your contributions on this one are a bit weak and lack focus on Gerrish and Chung and poor Oski.

by Anonymousreply 231September 1, 2021 1:02 PM

R230, they were up and taking a photo of the backpack at 6:45 and in the car by 7:45. Hopefully a start time will be clarified later. Reminds me of Kreycik delaying his run to return a package, all while the temp is climbing.

Not sure what there is to do in Mariposa that early besides breakfast. There did not seem to be awareness at all of the temps in the canyon being a risk or a sense of urgency. Maybe it was similar to Kreycik with nearby microclimates being much hotter, although the temp the day before in Mariposa had been 105.

The Gobi guided tour and years at Burning Man seem to have given them a bit of overconfidence re: heat. Bringing the baby and dog along are the real head scratcher. On a tour someone else is checking the weather and estimating supplies. At BM there are medics. I have a casual friend who has done a lot of adventure tourism, climbing in the Alps, etc. We went with a group to hike in nearby mountains and she turned up in running shoes not hiking boots (turned an ankle later) and without water and had to borrow, in temps in the 90s. Spending a lot of time outdoors does not equate to practical skills or planning. If you saw social media about her trips and climbing ability you might have thought she had "expertise" too. I am wary of hiking with her again unless their is a group to buffer her poor decisions.

For anyone who might still want to try hiking after reading this story, go out with local groups, the Sierra Club has a lot. It is easy to pick up skills and cautionary tales from experienced locals. You can pick up info on basic gear like water filters and on local hazards like algae. Spring and fall are great seasons to get out on trails. The cost of PLB has really come down, could save your life or that of someone you meet on the trail.

by Anonymousreply 232September 1, 2021 1:23 PM

I do not think they made it to the river. I think they were climbing down instead of up the switchback. That level of heat, in mid-afternoon, would be debilitating fairly quickly for Oski ( sic.) It would have been burning his paw pads too, resulting in the need for him to be carried. Anyone else thinking they got into trouble earlier than originally thought? As far as when they started, they may have gone back to their house for some reason, a forgotten item, ect. We will never really know in all likelihood.

by Anonymousreply 233September 1, 2021 2:06 PM

Just to add that not one minute of that hike sounds the least bit pleasant or relaxing. The waves of heat were hitting them the second they stepped out of their truck. Unfathomable.

by Anonymousreply 234September 1, 2021 2:12 PM

Agree, R234. The actual sensory experience, feeling heat, seeing no trees and how deep the canyon is and how steep the trail is, why did NONE of that register over "the plan?"

Per CNN tox screens may be back as soon as today.

[quote] Investigators have not yet determined what led to the mysterious deaths. Autopsies on the family and a necropsy on the dog were inconclusive while toxicology results remain pending. Some results could come as early as Wednesday, Kristie Mitchell, spokesperson for the sheriff's office, told CNN.

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by Anonymousreply 235September 1, 2021 2:15 PM

R235- Thank you for the link. Maybe we will get some answers, but I do not think stupidity shows on a tox screen. These parents were just beyond reckless with their child.

by Anonymousreply 236September 1, 2021 2:19 PM

[quote]Kristie Mitchell, Mariposa County sheriff spokesperson, said the family didn’t leave for their hike until MID-MORNING Sunday

Well, that's weird, because the timelines on the Fresno Bee and on Sierra News Online say the sheriff's office said back on the 26th that a witness saw them at 7:45 a.m. heading for the trail.

by Anonymousreply 237September 1, 2021 2:22 PM

R237- They were so close to their house that they may have decided to return for some unknown reason, putting them at mid-morning starting time, idk. If that is accurate, it truly seems almost suicidal. How could they NOT know how hot it was day if this is true?

by Anonymousreply 238September 1, 2021 2:27 PM

They thought they were badass, had gone to Gobi (but not hiking and on a tour) and repeated trips to the desert for BM, so, rules re: heat that apply to ordinary mortals and canines were so irrelevant, they did not register. I'm sure they lived in AC and drove to trail in truck with AC and possibly had gone out to breakfast in a place with AC, they were not heat adapted.

They saw themselves as both people who "hike every weekend" and people who spend time with and dote on baby and dog. They did not see themselves as cautious re: heat. The photos of the dog in a life jacket on a boat shows their love for "all the gear" when risks registered, or maybe when externally required. The heat and trail did not fall in that category.

They could well afford a PLB but did not have one of those either. Given the poor cell coverage in the area, the fact that Jon first bought a house there in 2016 and that he worked from home, he HAD to be aware that having no signal was likely or possible for at least part of that hike.

They had had close calls before, one re: heat, but did not become more cautious. After my own heat emergency, I did. Some people are slow learners or think rules don't apply to them.

That baby had to be so hot encased in that nylon pack held against another sweating body and the dog, poor thing with a thick coat. Doubt LE would report things like burned paws, they are sticking with "well equipped." There IS no equipment that would make that hike safe. One LE was overcome by heat on Tuesday morning when they were found.

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by Anonymousreply 239September 1, 2021 2:40 PM

Agree, and they also had to be aware of the temperatures in that area, they lived there. It seems the safety, comfort, and enjoyment of their baby and pet were not a consideration for them.

by Anonymousreply 240September 1, 2021 2:44 PM

I hate to be That Guy but I think the sheriff's office may be a little inaccurate on some of the things they say. The heat that day makes it very unlikely that they did most of the trail, like the sheriff said a week or so ago. Even if they got there around 8:00 a.m. it would have been scorching hot by 10:00 a.m. at the latest.

Like r233 suggested I think they may have succumbed earlier than we've been assuming.

by Anonymousreply 241September 1, 2021 2:50 PM

It was 105 the day before, R240, bet they spent that inside.

Maybe the quiet life in the country and during cv and as new parents seemed kinda boring compared to their city/clubbing/djing /adventure tourism life. Maybe they felt desperate to get out and "do" something. When behavior makes no sense, often the other has a different goal. Unsafe behavior never makes sense. if you rely on luck in life, at some point you will be in over your head.

I doubt they were spending lots of time with other new parents, I don't think they really grasped the need to change safety protocols re: a baby. And maybe her turning 1 a few weeks ago made some big and arbitrary difference to them.

Not one other dumbass who engineered their demise by heat this summer managed to take out a baby and dog too.

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by Anonymousreply 242September 1, 2021 2:51 PM

The fact is that no matter what happened on that trail, which trail they took, what time they started, toxic algae, the very fact that they took a baby and dog out that day in the heat is inexcusable.

by Anonymousreply 243September 1, 2021 3:18 PM

R241 I will be that guy with no apologies. LE blew it from the start by releasing the information as a giant mystery which implied aliens or mysterious laser beams or conspiracy theory toxic substances or Bigfoot. People on WS have been giving LE information regarding the family's social media and AllTrails, and it is being welcomed. My guess is the local LE are hayseed but possibly well-meaning. I also believe they knew absolutely nothing about heat stroke or toxic algae, and sad to say, they may be enjoying their moment in the sun. (pun intended)

by Anonymousreply 244September 1, 2021 3:23 PM

I think someone in that department is a bit of a drama llama, R244, but I also think they did not want to seem to be victim blaming re: this attractive, well to do family. And makes sense to err on the side of caution re: the algae and all. LE did get a warrant for their social media but if the tox screens come back clean and they died from the heat it is pretty irrelevant.

Re: Kreycik it made sense to look into financials in case he had engineered his disappearance, rather than cooked himself to death, but social media seems pretty irrelevant re: Gerrish and Chung.

They underestimated the trail conditions esp danger of the temps and overestimated their ability to "push through" due to their "spirit dogs" or whatever bs she had written about. That combo of arrogance and ignorance is a killer.

I think the phone will give a lot more info re: their movements that day. It is surprising that there is no mention of a biometric watch or ring on either adult. Very popular and would give info re: things like time of death.

by Anonymousreply 245September 1, 2021 3:30 PM

I think it is likely that LE and this family were/are all well meaning. But, no less dead for it.

If the cause of death turns out likely due to heat, changing the messaging re: the dangers may save other lives. LE like all of us are becoming more familiar with heat dangers, things that people in AZ and NV all know are becoming relevant even in the PNW this summer.

by Anonymousreply 246September 1, 2021 3:33 PM

R237 they were seen driving in that direction. My guess is they went out to breakfast first and LE is now aware of that. Or they have GPS data from the phone. Or both.

by Anonymousreply 247September 1, 2021 3:37 PM

LE seems to have mentioned every possiblity EXCEPT heat stroke. They finally mentioned it very briefly, but along with other possibilities, never heat stroke as a single possible cause. Maybe the fact that the dad was sitting up and the baby in her carrier freaked them out, but heat stroke was my very first thought. Idk why it wasn't theirs.

by Anonymousreply 248September 1, 2021 3:37 PM

So sad that no one was even holding that baby and giving her that comfort of human touch when she died. If they were physically unable to do so due to heat stroke, does not change her experience.

A lot of us likely had parents who occasionally did something risky or ill considered, some anecdotes were posted on the second thread. Rarely does it go quite this wrong. Some evaluate risks differently when they are "close to home." We may never know WHAT they were thinking.

Netfiix and chill when there is an extreme heat advisory.

by Anonymousreply 249September 1, 2021 3:42 PM

R249- I think the baby likely died while they were trying to carry/deal with their dead or dying dog. They may not have been aware of her death, thinking she was only sleeping. At least I hope the baby went into a quick coma from hyperthermia. It would have been merciful at that point. I think that may be why she was still in her carrier. They had to realize that they would pass out at some point and had her in the carrier, maybe to protect her from crawling away from the trail when they passed out/away. Just a thought.

by Anonymousreply 250September 1, 2021 3:59 PM

OP has stated her boundaries, and received her crown as "playground monitor."

She needs to take a hike, preferably in Death Valley.

by Anonymousreply 251September 1, 2021 4:02 PM

R250- Should have read, " If the baby were still alive. ( Protect her from crawling away from the trail.)

by Anonymousreply 252September 1, 2021 4:05 PM

R211

Good point. I was thinking the same thing. The age difference is weird, and I'm guessing there was a power imbalance.

She may have been more protective of her child, but he didn't want to give up any of his old life style once baby was born. He got married late (stubborn, perfectionistic) and married an Asian woman because they age slower (perfectionist).

I don't his age afforded him wisdom. On the contrary, he set his life up so he could still have control and do what he wanted. And he coerced his much younger wife along. That's my guess.

by Anonymousreply 253September 1, 2021 4:07 PM

R253 I’m seeing the opposite of you, lol. Maybe she was the harridan who pushed him to do crazy shit. He looked like he knew his way around a tray of nachos but she was the lean, fit, yoga instructor with the public social media page. As for the age difference, maybe she zeroed in on him because of his money—they did have several houses and they traveled pretty robustly. Most women would overlook a small age difference for that. He was 45 not 65, and she was over 30, so nothing too odd.

by Anonymousreply 254September 1, 2021 4:22 PM

I got the impression from her IG that her own family had money, there are numerous entries from before she met her husband and she didn't seem to be struggling. She also had a good job until recently. I don't think bringing in some half-baked notion that she was a "gold-digging harridan concerned only with her social media page" is particularly useful at this point.

As for him "not wanting to give up his lifestyle," his AllTrails showed he'd been hiking himself recently, so his lifestyle was still perfectly intact.

by Anonymousreply 255September 1, 2021 4:27 PM

If she was the last to die, as I believe based on her body being up the trail, can you imagine what she must have been feeling? Knowing that she was the reason they were all dead or dying? Get husband was equally responsible, but just imagine the soul crushing guilt.

by Anonymousreply 256September 1, 2021 4:30 PM

R256- Her, not get.

by Anonymousreply 257September 1, 2021 4:31 PM

[quote] Knowing that she was the reason they were all dead or dying?

I kind of feel like you guys are saying things like this because you're hoping to get a rise out of others on the thread.

by Anonymousreply 258September 1, 2021 4:32 PM

R258- No. Not at all. It is kind of haunting to think about the emotions that must have played out in that trail. I hope it is a lesson to all to not go hiking in extreme heat. If not, at least to not bring children and pets.

by Anonymousreply 259September 1, 2021 4:35 PM

Due to the changes in cognition in high heat they may not have known. I don't remember much of my own heat emergency and confused or irrational behavior is common during high heat as the brain heats up.

It is also curious to me that the all of the media stories on how the most elite athletes were effected by heat in Tokyo does not seem to register with these weekend warrior outdoor types.

Kreycik DID have a lot of outdoor experience but primarily in the east, NE and Bay area. I doubt Gerrish was nearly as well informed, but, both dead.

I think Ellen liked to do risky and adventuresome outdoor things herself, neither was a cautious type. And she likely did not want to stay home alone if he went. Parenting can be lonely, I imagine during cv it is more so. AND they wanted to do their adventure AND spend time with the dog and baby, so, the plan was green lighted and nothing that would cause it to change factored in, it is a cognitive distortion of some sort. Arrogance + ignorance + not wanting to be lonely or left behind.

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by Anonymousreply 260September 1, 2021 4:50 PM

Did the wife really post about "spirit dogs"?

by Anonymousreply 261September 1, 2021 4:52 PM

[quote] And she likely did not want to stay home alone if he went. Parenting can be lonely,

Oh for gawd's sake. We are now just grasping for ridiculous straws for excuses. He wasn't going on a 3 month journey - it was a hike. If she couldn't stay home and be a mommy alone for that then she should never have had that baby. But then I guess that's stating the obvious.

There are NO excuses for these sorry excuses for parents. None.

by Anonymousreply 262September 1, 2021 4:54 PM

Wasn't making excuses, R262. Offering a motive as to why she would not likely stay home if he was going, She seemed to be very social and life with a young baby is a time that is notorious for being isolating and lonely. If they had parent friends there are not photos with them. She was likely going to school remotely. She likely wanted to spend time with her husband, dog and baby, doing something that was a big part of their identity as a couple. Facts suggesting it was unwise did not seem to register out of hubris, arrogance, ignorance, etc.

His AllTrails was active in 2021, hers was not. Perhaps she had not been hiking with him as much while the baby was very young. I do think her turning one may have seemed significant to the parents as well.

Spirit dogs at link, R261.

And to state the obvious, I would not be shocked if her own recklessness contributed in some way to the accident that caused a TBI when she was college aged. Shame to overcome it and still die so young.

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by Anonymousreply 263September 1, 2021 5:14 PM

[quote] dark and lost time in my life

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by Anonymousreply 264September 1, 2021 5:15 PM

There is another insta post re: high heat, in maybe Thailand? but I have to get on a work call. It's there if someone wants to look. They had experienced other close calls prior to the baby and prior to this ill considered "adventure."

by Anonymousreply 265September 1, 2021 5:17 PM

[quote] Wasn't making excuses, [R262]. Offering a motive

Same thing. Stop making these damn excuses and giving them different names.

Was she some 19 year old single mother isolated in a trailer with no access to internet? She was a damn grown ass educated woman. Living a good life with her family. Of course she was less active when pregnant and with a small baby DURING A PANDEMIC.

She wanted to spend time with her husband and dog? They ALL lived together in the same house. They must have been together all the time. Normal people can come up with activities that are safe for them and their baby.

You are describing a woman that is utterly selfish and stupid. Unless her TBI made her susceptible to an utterly selfish and stupid man.

by Anonymousreply 266September 1, 2021 5:24 PM

No, I'm not posting to stir stuff up.

But this is a cautionary tale. When you become a parent, expect your life to be curtailed. It does get boring. You do have to sacrifice. You can't live life the way you did before.

If enough people spread the word, perhaps this won't happen again. Or not as much.

by Anonymousreply 267September 1, 2021 5:33 PM

Why do you think that many women get fat after they have a baby?

Because there is less opportunity for exercise. And it is a huge psychological difference thinking for two instead of one. Not only that, you need to be emotionally attuned to that baby to help it self regulate (which is why adopted children often have problems because the emotional attachment was broken, even though they have other loving caregivers).

It's a big big big change. Ask Serena Williams. She doesn't have the same body, same hormones or even same mindset.

by Anonymousreply 268September 1, 2021 5:36 PM

R254

Age 45 and 31. I'd say a huge age difference. Maybe not back in the day when older men married younger women, but today.

by Anonymousreply 269September 1, 2021 5:39 PM

[quote] LE blew it from the start by releasing the information as a giant mystery which implied aliens or mysterious laser beams or conspiracy theory toxic substances or Bigfoot.

Yeah, that didn't help. This is isn't a Weekly World News story.

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by Anonymousreply 270September 1, 2021 5:42 PM

It's getting really fucking Frauey in here...

by Anonymousreply 271September 1, 2021 5:45 PM

Babies change your life. Duh!!

by Anonymousreply 272September 1, 2021 5:45 PM

The mines, river and proximity were likely the draws. They saw themselves as experts who were experienced re: desert conditions. They went on a lot of "spontaneous" hiking trips, they likely saw checking an app the day before as dialing it back. Not enough.

She posts #jellon or #jellon adventures a lot, anyone know the translation?

by Anonymousreply 273September 1, 2021 5:51 PM

I think it was a portmanteau of Jon and Ellen. Nauseating and just a little more insight to their personalities.

by Anonymousreply 274September 1, 2021 5:58 PM

You frauen are hard core.

by Anonymousreply 275September 1, 2021 6:07 PM

It wasn't a huge difference. No one would bat an eye at a woman having her first child at age 30, nor a man father his first child at age 44.

by Anonymousreply 276September 1, 2021 6:15 PM

Maybe, R274. I had not even thought of that, assumed it was some yoga thing. Very creative of you.

Hopefully the tox results will be released today with a finding by the medical examiner.

by Anonymousreply 277September 1, 2021 6:39 PM

Had they been a poor couple, the media and probably LE would be scathingly critical of them and their reckless decision to take the baby & pet out hiking in extreme heat. Just my opinion.

by Anonymousreply 278September 1, 2021 6:51 PM

SOMEBODY farted...

by Anonymousreply 279September 1, 2021 6:55 PM

Poor people would have trouble getting there to even begin the trail, no?

by Anonymousreply 280September 1, 2021 6:59 PM

I think LE is just doing a CYA re the algae. It IS unusual for people to take dogs and infants out on an exposed trail on a sunny day during an extreme heat warning, so it IS something they don't see often. Because it was remote and most people have more common sense and survival instinct, there was no one to aid or report them.

Ellen claimed they hiked "every weekend" not "every weekend when it is not dangerously hot" - these adventure types who over identify with being outdoorsy do black and white, not nuanced grey.

by Anonymousreply 281September 1, 2021 7:05 PM

[quote]You frauen are hard core.

Got that right.

by Anonymousreply 282September 1, 2021 7:24 PM

WS shut down the thread about them. Why are they such assholes? Is it the "give a nobody a little power" syndrome? Thank God for DL.

by Anonymousreply 283September 1, 2021 7:26 PM

OH MY GOD this thread is fucking overrun with fraus.

by Anonymousreply 284September 1, 2021 7:35 PM

Wow there are a lot of really stupid people in Cali.

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by Anonymousreply 285September 1, 2021 7:37 PM

R285, they deserve to die. good riddance

by Anonymousreply 286September 1, 2021 7:38 PM

Check this out, R286. Too much acid?

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by Anonymousreply 287September 1, 2021 7:45 PM

[quote] As the Caldor Fire creates wide-ranging evacuation orders, highway closures and some of the worst air quality on the planet, the Reno-Tahoe area expects thousands of travelers to pass through for a multi-day “renegade Burning Man” festival.

Burners vs. Darwin

by Anonymousreply 288September 1, 2021 7:45 PM

Thinning the herd. Darwin humming as he works.

by Anonymousreply 289September 1, 2021 7:49 PM

They should have paced themselves, now they can't introduce Miju to the crowd when he dj's. You know they would have bought cute little headphones for the baby but driven close to the Caldor Fire and they are too hardcore to worry about air quality. Priorities, man.

by Anonymousreply 290September 1, 2021 7:56 PM

Quite the look in the 3rd photo #jellonadventures

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by Anonymousreply 291September 1, 2021 8:16 PM

I don't understand the dog thing. so the baby started dehydrating, and the closeted husband felt weak, so chingchangchung started walking for help, but how come even the dog died ?

by Anonymousreply 292September 1, 2021 8:31 PM

Akita mix would have a double coat, R292. So, imagine doing that hike in 109 degrees in a North Face jacket. Dogs can only discharge heat through paw pads (burning trail) and by panting, neither are very effective in those ambient temps. Dog was likely the first to start baking. Does that help?

by Anonymousreply 293September 1, 2021 8:39 PM

The wife has her former beau on her Insta, wonder what his deal was? He was a lot older. Wonder if this was the 2nd wife?

by Anonymousreply 294September 1, 2021 8:40 PM

Tab Hunter and Michael Craig in MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO

by Anonymousreply 295September 1, 2021 9:20 PM

It’s just weird that she didn’t bring her cell phone for those Instagrammable shots.

And if they had some awareness of what was happening to them, to record a message “just in case…”

by Anonymousreply 296September 1, 2021 9:24 PM

Maybe they did try to call or text or record something, R296. The FBI has his phone.

by Anonymousreply 297September 1, 2021 9:26 PM

Another dead hiker in a national park. This guy was younger, only 32, hiking in 95 degree weather.

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by Anonymousreply 298September 2, 2021 1:36 AM

r298 What a wimp! He couldn't wait until he had heatstroke? Pffft.

by Anonymousreply 299September 2, 2021 1:51 AM

The hiker had heat exhaustion? What about the people doing CPR for an hour in that heat?

by Anonymousreply 300September 2, 2021 2:00 AM

Lol, R300.

Wonder how high the "feels like" temp and humidity were.

by Anonymousreply 301September 2, 2021 2:27 AM

My husband…..some hotshot!

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by Anonymousreply 302September 2, 2021 2:40 AM

I think this thread feels frauey just because we are all waiting for new info and really there's not much more to say yet.

by Anonymousreply 303September 2, 2021 4:10 AM

It feels frauey because it's attracted the dipshit fantasists from the snowplow murder threads

by Anonymousreply 304September 2, 2021 4:26 AM

The Frauen tend to NOT be fantasists which is why they are so fucking boring.

Yet they always have to have their yap on, because god forbid they don't insert themselves even if they have nothing new or interesting to say. So, instead we have to wade through all of this tedious female babble about if age differences are appropriate or not, how pregnancies can change a woman, and 450 variations on the "think of the children" theme.

by Anonymousreply 305September 2, 2021 4:35 AM

It feels frauey because POOR BABY wasn't even held at the end and Oski's burning feet and DOUBLE COAT and OMG they were on ALLTRAILS AND WENT TO BURNING MAN.

by Anonymousreply 306September 2, 2021 4:46 AM

[quote]The Frauen tend to NOT be fantasists which is why they are so fucking boring.

That's not true at all, the "these parents were selfish druggies who didn't even hold their baby when it was dying" fantasies are 100% frau.

The murder-suicide snow threads were pure 1960s frau bait "poor closeted, miserable and harassed man who never had love in his life finally snaps and murders the evil Republican heteros who made his life miserable" stuff.

by Anonymousreply 307September 2, 2021 4:50 AM

You should have kept your mouth shut, R307.

by Anonymousreply 308September 2, 2021 4:55 AM

Quote: "So, instead we have to wade through all of this tedious female babble."

Oh, the irony. 😏

by Anonymousreply 309September 2, 2021 5:01 AM

I think r306 touches on it quite well.

Bottom line: the fucking Frauen are thread killers.

by Anonymousreply 310September 2, 2021 5:06 AM

R307- You seem to just look for any reason to be nasty and rude to everyone. What do YOU add to the discussion other than rude comments? Perhaps you should avoid this thread as it seems to only make you miserable. It is ridiculous and very tiresome at this point. Putting you on ignore. I do not often do that but you are only here to try to ruin this thread for everyone else. Your juvenile put downs and nasty comments are at about a seventh grade level and I am being generous there. Puff! No more you!

by Anonymousreply 311September 2, 2021 5:14 AM

r311, you're just upset because you were the one I called out for that "she died knowing she was responsible for killing them all" crap. It was unnecessary and ridiculous and added nothing, and I stand by saying that.

Based on your other comments, you're only here because Websleuths shut their thread down.

by Anonymousreply 312September 2, 2021 5:22 AM

R312-No, I have been on DL for years. I do not like WS because they censor the posters and treat them like children. Which is what is happening here. One poster demanding that we only post whatever he/she approves of and being condescending and rude when other posters do not do as demanded. There is no need to be mean and nasty to anyone here. You are not the thread police. If you do not like the conversation in this thread then leave it and find one you do like. Do not bully other posters, you are not a mod.

by Anonymousreply 313September 2, 2021 5:39 AM

As far as all of the "Frau" insults, first of all you have no idea who we are. You do not know which of us are male or female. Secondly, a dick swinging between your legs doesn't mean you can territorially piss all over this thread.

by Anonymousreply 314September 2, 2021 5:46 AM

Is this an example of that saying "A hit dog will holler" r314? It's feeling that way.

Hopefully the tox reports will be released tomorrow and we will all have something new to sink our fangs into.

by Anonymousreply 315September 2, 2021 6:04 AM

R315- I wasn't hit and this isn't hollering. I mostly enjoy everyone's posts here. I see no need in any of being rude to one another. That is really it. I have been busy with other things today, but have been checking whenever I had a free moment. I am very disappointed that the tox report did not come back today.

by Anonymousreply 316September 2, 2021 6:17 AM

[quote] Age 45 and 31

Age 45 for a man professionally coming into his own and age 31 for a mature, assertive woman syncs up pretty well to me, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 317September 2, 2021 6:28 AM

While researching this story, I came across an equally puzzling Yosemite story from 1981. A 14 year-old girl named Stacey Arass literally vanished there. Quite a rabbit hole...

by Anonymousreply 318September 2, 2021 6:45 AM

FFS, can we all just agree that many of us, from many different views who appreciate each other, come here and appreciate one another's viewpoints. Just stop the stupid arguing. I really just want to have threads that are progressive and not name-calling. Stop the dumb hate and BS. Focus on the damn thread.

by Anonymousreply 319September 2, 2021 6:49 AM

The way someone keeps banging on about Oski being a *FURRY* dog with a *DOUBLE* coat is stupid.

ALL dogs are furry. Yes, Oski was a mix that had a thicker coat than some other mixes, but it doesn't *really* matter in the big picture! ANY breed would be vulnerable to heat stroke at those temps, regardless their coat-thickness. If Oski had been a poodle mix, or a chihuahua mix....he still wouldn't have fared much better in that heat.

by Anonymousreply 320September 2, 2021 6:56 AM

R319- I agree. We are here because we are all interested in this case. If there are people who are bored with the conversation they should just avoid this thread until something new happens. For those of us who want to discuss it while we wait we should not be insulted because we do. R18- Thank you for that link. I am going to google that case, it sounds very interesting.

by Anonymousreply 321September 2, 2021 7:00 AM

R320- So what if someone restates that? That actually does matter because it would be the equivalent of a person wearing a black leather coat on that hike. It matters because the dog never made it hours into that hike. He was in distress within an hour or so in that heat.

by Anonymousreply 322September 2, 2021 7:04 AM

Agree r322. it's the same as overt abuse of leaving a dog chained outside in desert, with heat of over 100 degrees with little to no water, no shade and a very hot ground/no grass. i'm not sure anybody would think that's okay and not abusive.

And putting that baby through that heat, inside a polyester baby carrier and next to a full grown man or woman whose body was giving off that heat...what are you THINKING??!!

I would have never hiked outdoors with a baby of a year old in 100+ degree heat. What kind of stupid ARE YOU?!

by Anonymousreply 323September 2, 2021 7:14 AM

R323- Had the parents lived they would be facing criminal charges, and rightly so. It was cruel, brutal, selfish.

by Anonymousreply 324September 2, 2021 7:17 AM

R343- And yes, abusive.

by Anonymousreply 325September 2, 2021 7:18 AM

RE: Dead Zion Park hiker

Why don't they close these park trails when temps are high? Could be something like "Heat warning - travel at your own risk." I realize it may not be feasible, due to the breadth of thr terrain.

by Anonymousreply 326September 2, 2021 7:25 AM

You know what's interesting? I can just about guess who the men are and who the women are on DL. I actually think all these responses are amusing. I appreciate all the posters who give cold, dry facts abouts cases without all the syrupy sentimentality, regardless if they have a wagger by their legs.

by Anonymousreply 327September 2, 2021 7:29 AM

R327- Thank you for that late breaking information! Adds so much to the discussion. I appreciate it when people restrain themselves from critiquing every post that supposedly bores them, as if they can not stop themselves from reading them anyway.

by Anonymousreply 328September 2, 2021 7:36 AM

Could something they ate or drank at a restaurant before their hike poisoned them?

by Anonymousreply 329September 2, 2021 8:23 AM

[quote] The age difference is weird, and I'm guessing there was a power imbalance.

Do you hear yourself?

I can’t handle the people in this thread anymore. I’ve already blocked 2 people—one a woman who has hundreds of lengthy replies and had already determined who these hikers were and their motives in life without having met them. Oh, and the dog was furry. She also bumped the original thread when the action wasn’t fast enough. The other person blocked is almost as bad.

Also, what r306 said.

I’m out of this thread for good.

by Anonymousreply 330September 2, 2021 8:47 AM

I believe we know they came from their home, r329, per that info we got in the timeline released about a week ago.

The water tests in the area that were mentioned a few days ago in news articles said only one water source had toxic algae bloom and the rest were clear, so I think that vastly reduces the chances of this being the result of toxic algae.

The more I poke around on maps of the area, the less likely it seems that they accidentally ended up on Savage-Lundy. Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like you'd have to walk quite a ways on Hite's Cove to get to the Savage-Lundy trailhead. Since it was already nearly 100F by 10:00 a.m., by the time they got to the Savage-Lundy trailhead, it would have been hot. Just turning around and going back would have been an ordeal by then. I cannot understand this at all.

by Anonymousreply 331September 2, 2021 8:48 AM

I agree r296, though I've been yelled at a couple of times for saying so. If this was about social media attention, she would have brought her phone with her. Also, the sheriff's office saying nothing was found on the phones is kind of vague, but it sounds like they didn't at least try to make a call or send a message. Even if you know there's no cell phone coverage, it's an emergency, you're going to try everything.

by Anonymousreply 332September 2, 2021 8:55 AM

R331 A neighbor saw the family driving toward the trailhead at 7:45 am. LE says that the family started their hike at "mid-morning." I wouldn't classify approx. 8:00 am as "mid-morning." Maybe LE does.

It could be that the family ate breakfast at a restaurant between the sighting at 7:45 am and starting their hike at "mid-morning."

by Anonymousreply 333September 2, 2021 8:57 AM

Yeah, I am not getting the recent statement about them starting "mid morning," that doesn't make a lot of sense given that they were seen driving there at 7:45 a.m. and that it was 99F by 10:00 a.m.

I guess we may find out that these two were beyond stupid and really DID start this arduous hike in 100-degree weather with a dog and a baby, after downing all-you-can-eat pancakes.

As for stopping for breakfast, I've been poking around the area on Google Maps and I haven't seen anywhere for them to have stopped at, but I've misread maps before.

by Anonymousreply 334September 2, 2021 9:02 AM

R334- They were so close to their house is it possible that they may have forgotten something, or some other reason, and returned to their house after they were seen? If not that then I think what you suggested about breakfast is very likely. We just do not know for sure right now but it is a possibility.

by Anonymousreply 335September 2, 2021 9:08 AM

R332 Yelled at? Seriously? Whatever. Moving on.

The FBI has his phone, as has only been stated on these threads multiple times. We don't have the result of their findings yet, obviously. We don't yet have the result of the tox reports either.

While I strongly agree that crazy "fantasies" or...overly emotional extrapolations if that sits better with certain of our posters here who have posted such things like how much the wife must have regretted her actions as she was dying (WTF?!). I do think conjecture, if it comes from a logical place, is something else entirely. It is human nature to want to suss things out especially when there isn't a lot to go on. That said too many...people...have been pushing hyper emotion into what is already a tragic event which only serves to hump, pump, and bump the drama. I agree it has to stop. It is embarrassing, it is useless, it is a waste of time, and it is, for want of a better word, stupid.

by Anonymousreply 336September 2, 2021 9:14 AM

Yeah, r336, it happened on this thread and Part 2, I mentioned that even if they knew there was no cell service, it seems like they would have tried the phone at least once, just in case. I got called names for "being too stupid to not realize there was no cell service." Pretty sure it's the same person who was telling people they weren't allowed to post on this thread, and who kept saying temps were over 100F for 48 hours in a row, then got embarrassed when they realized they had misspoke, and started calling me dumbass, dumbfuck, fucking moron, and telling me to kill myself.

Then when I express a personal opinion on all this moralizing and the completely invented personal lives of the parents that some have made up here, I get told I'M the one calling names and "policing the thread."

I totally get why someone earlier tonight said they were out of this thread. I left Part 2 (even though I started the thread) for several days because of it. Some little pill like you coming along and acting like I'm lying doesn't help, but you weren't trying to help, were you?

by Anonymousreply 337September 2, 2021 9:26 AM

Also, r336, there's been some confusion about what was on the phones, because there were articles a few days ago saying the sheriff's office said nothing significant was found on them. There's a CBS article from yesterday saying the FBI still has the phones, though. That was news to me, because I thought they already had the information from the phones.

If people are saying there was nothing found on the phones, this is why.

[quote]Authorities conducted searches of the family's cars and phones, and officials say "nothing significant was located."

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by Anonymousreply 338September 2, 2021 9:31 AM

r337 Where/when did this poster ever call you : "dumbass, dumbfuck, fucking moron, and telling me to kill myself." I am not challenging you, I don't sit on these threads and might well have missed this. That said, I don't miss much. Please give me the thread numbers and the reply numbers. If the poster really did tell you to kill yourself, I will report it to Muriel.

I want to say you have to be tough as nails to post here, but some things are certainly not at all OK and a non joking wish for your death from a fellow poster would not be tolerated by the higher ups.

Please give me what you can, and I will contact HQ. One thing though, and this is not a threat, doing so may get this thread zapped. The runner who died kept getting his threads zapped, so, just be sure you have your info together, and I'll put in an email to Muriel.

Or...you can take some ugly licks and just understand things can get pretty harsh here. I've looked again and don't see where you were wished death by anyone. That said, it is very late here, and, again, I might have missed it. As I am sure you know, you can't throw those kinds of accusations without being able to back them up, so please do post the examples when you can.

by Anonymousreply 339September 2, 2021 9:49 AM

R336- If I want to remark on how horrific their deaths must have been, I will. If I want to remark on how the horrified they must have been to have to possibly watch their baby die, I will. If you do not want people to post about anything except proven facts you would probably like WS. There the posts are monitored with a Nazi-like aggressiveness that you, from what your post reads, would find more appealing.

by Anonymousreply 340September 2, 2021 9:54 AM

Some of you bitches need to stop trying to make the thread about you.

by Anonymousreply 341September 2, 2021 10:06 AM

r340 I take it you don't have any backup of the other poster calling you names and being threatening then. You need to toughen up. That is all I can say to help you. Go ahead and post whatever your heart desires, but you must be strong enough to handle the consequences.

This is a pointless bitchery gay gossip board and I think you might be taking it as something more important to you. We aren't here to support hurt feelings. Threats? Sure. Hurt feelings come with the territory. Either let us help you with the poster that sounded out of bounds, or if that poster did not do as you say he/she did, buck up and if you don't think you can handle it, find a new board.

by Anonymousreply 342September 2, 2021 10:06 AM

R342- I haven't said one word about death threats or wishing someone dead. What I did say is I will not be intimidated by anyone trying to dictate what others can post about this case, unless your name is Muriel. I am sure some people find your posts tiresome as well, but as long as you respect others rights to post and you refrain from trying to censor them, no one will try to police your posts either.

by Anonymousreply 343September 2, 2021 10:13 AM

R342- Go fuck yourself. We know no one else will. You go to another website and good luck trying to tell people there what they may or may not post. Tough enough, cunt?

by Anonymousreply 344September 2, 2021 10:16 AM

Ignoring the tiresome cunt@R342 who thinks he has a right to tell others what they can post here. You have done nothing but disrupted this thread and have brought nothing to it. Go order your mother around and see how fast she kicks your trite ass out of her basement.

by Anonymousreply 345September 2, 2021 10:20 AM

R343 My apologies. R337 was who I meant to direct my comment to. If you say a poster told you to kill yourself, that is serious. I still can't find a post of that sort, and it should be reported. By everyone. Please give us that thread number and reply number and I will send it in.

I am sorry for getting the reply numbers mixed up. Half my family is burning up on the West Coast, and the other half is drowning on the East Coast. We live in strange and difficult times, and I am underslept. Again, I apologize.

by Anonymousreply 346September 2, 2021 10:28 AM

Heat isn't just a new factor in the Americas.

by Anonymousreply 347September 2, 2021 10:30 AM

R347- You are right, it isn't. It has been noticable worse where I live , especially the humidity. It has gotten hotter every year and it is already almost unbearable here. But even so, as you said, it has always been hot there. So why all of the heat strokes lately? I also never noticed or thought about it, but never realized people like Kreycik run, jog, hike in extreme heat.

by Anonymousreply 348September 2, 2021 10:55 AM

Was this already posted? Trails and campgrounds near Yosemite where a family and their dog were found dead have been closed because of 'unknown hazards,' officials say

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by Anonymousreply 349September 2, 2021 12:43 PM

Actually, R320, in the case of another family who perished from heat, a dachshund survived.

Any dog can get heat stroke but an Akita mix is especially vulnerable due to its particular type of coat.

As always, don't like my post, block away.

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by Anonymousreply 350September 2, 2021 1:19 PM

Eh, CNN. That article closes with the comment: She said the family was well prepared for a day hike. Just proves CNN will post anything. Local news will be more accurate.

by Anonymousreply 351September 2, 2021 1:21 PM

I think the dog started to be distressed 2-3 miles down the trail, they picked up the pace down to the river thinking he could cool off, got freaked about the river algae mats (the photos of green water and dead fish are striking, must have smelled too) then underestimated how steep SL was to get out. Had they been calm and thinking clearly, the best chance of survival was to stay down by the river until the sun moved off the switchbacks. The dog was alive when Jon sat because LE said it was attached to him, assuming leashed. The baby was likely alive too, they would have taken her out if not, unless unable to hold her.

Was the car parked by the SL trailhead or Hites Cove? The way they are referred to makes it seem as if they might be 2 different trailheads.

Had the river been in better condition would likely have been able to cool off and lived. The algae is said to be due to runoff of fertilizer from grow ops in Mariposa County.

by Anonymousreply 352September 2, 2021 1:27 PM

Muriel advocates blocking posters like R342, not arguing with them. Not gonna change trollish behavior in others by lecturing.

by Anonymousreply 353September 2, 2021 1:31 PM

Preach, R341.

This comment from Reddit is interesting, if true and may be the source of the seeming change in "start time" per LE.

[quote] amador9 · 15h The Route they were taking, based on a witness they met on the trail was from their car at the Hite Cove parking area, elevation approx 3900ft , 3 miles down the Hite Cove trail to Hite Cove on the So. Fork of the Merced River, elevation approx 1800 ft, then 3 miles up the So. Fork to the Savage-Lundy Trail, elevation approx 1900ft, then up the Savage-Lundy one mile to approx 2700ft where the bodies were found. They were about 1 1/2 miles up step switchback to their car. Ellen was some distance up the trail from John and the baby. There was a fire the a few years ago and the trail was fully exposed to the sun. I was 50 miles away at about 2600ft elevation. Where I was at, the temperature got over 95 degrees in the afternoon. I doubt it ever reached 109 degrees as some news accounts have suggested but it would have been very hot in the afternoon.

Overall, the route they had taken would be considered a fairly strenuous day hike but nothing unreasonable for health adults; even with one carrying an infant. The big problem would be the heat. In those mountains, it could have been a pleasant 70 degrees in the morning at 3900 ft when they started but be pushing 100 degrees in the afternoon when they started climbing back up from the river. Climbing up a steep trail in that kind of heat is a bad idea but I have done without serious consequences. The trick is to have plenty of water. In that region humidity is very low when it gets hot so high temperatures can, to a large extent, be tolerated so long as you have plenty of water.

We know they had some water in two canteens when they were found. You would expect them to drink all of their water before they actually succumbed to heat exhaustion but it is hard to tell how people will behave under extreme stress. Also strange is that the parents were quite close together. Ellen was described as being in a short distance up the trail from John and the baby. People’s metabolisms are different and you would expect dehydration/heat exhaustion to set in on one of them well before the other so the appropriate action would be for weaker one to find shade and while the other went ahead to the car to get help. (how the baby would be handled would be a decision to be made). Again, under stress, people sometimes make bad decisions. Going on such a hike with an infant was a bad decision but dying under those circumstances is unusual. It is probably fairly common for summer hikers in the Sierras to suffer some ill effects of the heat. My guess is that their deaths will be related to heat and dehydration but exactly how it all played out might remain a mystery.

by Anonymousreply 354September 2, 2021 1:34 PM

Last paragraph from same Reddit comment, did not format correctly ^R354

by Anonymousreply 355September 2, 2021 1:35 PM

R336 sounds like she knows a lot about drama, MARY!

by Anonymousreply 356September 2, 2021 1:38 PM

I think this was their house. They had a swimming pool. They should have stayed home and used it instead of hiking to their deaths.

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by Anonymousreply 357September 2, 2021 1:47 PM

Good find, R357, and it seems to match their photos. I thought he bought in 2016 though and renovated? Or was that another one of his houses? How did you find this, if you don't mind my asking?

That is CHEAP, but they are 20 miles outside Mariposa. If they sold property in SF that money went far, explains some of the rental property, etc.

Huge change in lifestyle from urban to middle of nowhere.

by Anonymousreply 358September 2, 2021 1:55 PM

Someone on WS said they lived on Carleton Rd.

A search came up with these addresses:

631 O'Farrell St, Unit 1606 San Francisco CA 94109

Past Addresses: Homes, Rental Properties, businesses, apartments, condos and/or other real estate associated with Jonathan Gerrish in San Francisco, CA.

5263 Carleton Rd Mariposa CA 95338

4458 Totokon Rd ** Mariposa CA 95338

3530 Triangle Rd ** Mariposa CA 95338

345 Spear St, Unit 4 San Francisco CA 94105

355 Berry St, Unit 507 San Francisco CA 94158

3184 Mission St, Unit 206 San Francisco CA 94110

** These must be their AirBNB houses in Mariposa.

by Anonymousreply 359September 2, 2021 2:02 PM

Thanks, R359. That is a lovely spot and a very nice home. I am still really surprised by the prices but it is very rural and prior to telework probably were not many jobs in the area.

All such a shame. I hope this will lead to a public education campaign about the dangers of heat.

by Anonymousreply 360September 2, 2021 2:21 PM

They died from heat stroke just like Philip Kreycik. LE will stretch this out forever because they are young drama hounds, and suddenly they matter and feel important. The world belongs to the young. It's now all about them.

by Anonymousreply 361September 2, 2021 2:33 PM

I think it will wrap up when the tox screens are back, R361. LE has been a little dramatic with this one but it could still turn out that there were multiple factors at play.

With Kreycik, could have been another case of dude who bounced, had happened in that county before, so they were wary.

More people have baked to death in the west while recreating outside since Kreycik and this family died. The messaging needs to be more direct and announcements of trail closures will deter many.

It was 105 in Mariposa the day before their ill fated hike. Wonder where else they had been hiking this summer as a family?

The public education has to be about microclimates as well. Both this family and Kreycik experienced much cooler temps at their homes than where they hiked/ran. The trail was almost 30 min drive from their home, not nearly as close as earlier reports, they must have calculated as the crow flies. And the temp in the canyon itself was quite different than the trailhead, like Kreycik on that baking ridge. The best way to guard against heat stroke is to not be out in extreme heat.

by Anonymousreply 362September 2, 2021 2:41 PM

[quote] That said too many...people...have been pushing hyper emotion into what is already a tragic event which only serves to hump, pump, and bump the drama. I agree it has to stop. It is embarrassing, it is useless, it is a waste of time, and it is, for want of a better word, stupid.

MARY x 10! Take a Xanax.

Your posts are a waste of time and are full of emotion and drama. They do not advance the thread but derail. They constantly reference other posters and other DL true crime threads and other websites. Get out of the basement and get a grip. Calling gay men women and fraus is homophobic, knock it off.

See the difference re: the value of the post at R357, for example.

by Anonymousreply 363September 2, 2021 2:51 PM

R357- Thanks for finding this, I appreciate it. What a beautiful home. Personally I would never want to leave it. Is that the home they lived in or rented out? I had read that they lived close to the trail, but had no idea they were that close. Beautiful house and property.

by Anonymousreply 364September 2, 2021 4:33 PM

This gives a good sense of terrain and sun exposure

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by Anonymousreply 365September 2, 2021 4:42 PM

True Crime?

by Anonymousreply 366September 2, 2021 4:53 PM

The guy uses Google Earth to really give a sense of the trail and also plots the sun exposure. Do it yourself, watch what he did or skip it entirely. Also. feel FREE to block my posts.

by Anonymousreply 367September 2, 2021 4:58 PM

Maybe folks could just keep their remarks concise instead of blathering on endlessly please?

by Anonymousreply 368September 2, 2021 5:09 PM

R368- The elevation on the switchback where they were found looks to be almost a straight up incline to me. Really difficult, at least it would be for me. Factor in carrying a baby and possibly a dog. Maybe it is just the way the terrain looks on Google earth, but that looks brutal.

by Anonymousreply 369September 2, 2021 5:26 PM

Where they were living is so remote, I can't imagine going from a city/travel life to living full time 20 miles from a town with a population of 8,000. Going from teaching yoga to being an online student in the middle of nowhere. Seems more like where he grew up in the UK than where she did in OC. From one extreme to another. Personally I would have preferred more of a middle ground and a weekend getaway. It is very pretty but snows a lot there in winter, just seems super isolated/isolating.

by Anonymousreply 370September 2, 2021 5:28 PM

Agree, R369, it was posted that it is about 2,000 feet change in elevation from the river. Just the presence of switchbacks indicates how steep the trail is. There were photos on Part 2 of people working on the trail after the fires. The ones on the switchbacks were tiny dots in the distance. I like to hike and that trail section looks a bit daunting to me, after hours in the sun, with the canyon/trail radiating heat it must have felt like Everest. I don't think the small mom was wearing that large backpack with baby or carrying the med sized dog up that incline, together was probably 40% of the guy's own weight. Really not sustainable. I think they were panicking and thus did not assess staying down by the river until the sun moved as their best chance at survival. If the dog had drunk the algae water they may have panicked about that. Stuff of nightmares, Devil's Gulch, Savage Lundy trail and the outcome, all of it. I made sure someone in the group would bring a PLB on my hike this weekend. You just never know.

by Anonymousreply 371September 2, 2021 5:34 PM

R371- Yes, and nothing about that trail looks to fun or relaxing. I have doubts that they made it to the river, but if course idk that. After reading the info from the vet it seems logical that Oski would have been sick/overcome within an hour or so, especially w with no shade and possibly not enough water. I think where they were found is as far as they got that day. I hope LE will give us answers soon, but I do not expect them to until after the holiday, if that soon.

by Anonymousreply 372September 2, 2021 5:44 PM

Their home looks idyllic but with remote work and schooling maybe they wanted to get out. The did seem to like that desert terrain, there were other greener hikes that would have been cooler, at different elevation, within driving distance. The poor air quality due to the fires may also have been a factor in how taxing the temps and exertion were on that particular day, for both them and Oski.

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by Anonymousreply 373September 2, 2021 5:53 PM

If it had been two old people or French tourists found on this trail, the story would have run once and vanished. If the GerrishChungs did this by a very stupid mistake of judgement, they have also brought down this story and publicity on their poor families and friends. They also may have led LE to look for plausible cause when sadly there isnt one other than heat. The why probably will never be solved.

by Anonymousreply 374September 2, 2021 9:18 PM

LE is on the case?!?! This will be solved in no time!

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by Anonymousreply 375September 2, 2021 10:32 PM

New link

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by Anonymousreply 376September 2, 2021 10:34 PM

Is LE as prone to drama as the Mariposa Sheriff's Department, R376? Bigfoot? Falling boulders? Aliens of any kind?

by Anonymousreply 377September 2, 2021 10:47 PM

LE does believe they made it down to the river. So the partway down SL then turned around is out. No tox report yet.

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by Anonymousreply 378September 2, 2021 10:52 PM

R376 I wish.

by Anonymousreply 379September 2, 2021 11:00 PM

I wonder if they will release the toxicology report on Friday during the start of the holiday weekend when, at least in days of yore, that's when it would get less attention. Perhaps the sheriffs did fuck it up with their limp updates and "mysteries" and headscratching, and know they need to make this next, hopefully final, announcement at least sound like they are smarter than they likely are.

Personally, I hope this is now totally in the hands of the FBI, or other higher agency, and someone can intelligently, articulately put this sad situation to rest.

Agent Heatstroke will hopefully represent.

by Anonymousreply 380September 2, 2021 11:07 PM

DOJ was involved immediately since it happened in a national park. I wondered the same thing, R380. But, due to the fire risks, I think the parks will stay closed for Labor Day, in any event, which kinda sucks.

by Anonymousreply 381September 2, 2021 11:11 PM

If they were hungover, already dehydrated, could that really hurt with heatstroke? Everyone I know my age is tying one on every weekend since Covid.

... and I am making this about me, because I'm very scared of heatstroke now. I still think it looks like family annihilation- like he's sitting there accepting it and she's trying to crawl off. And it's happening a lot with millennials, even if it's not being reported. But the volumes of heatstroke information in this threads have been chilling.

by Anonymousreply 382September 2, 2021 11:24 PM

[quote] And it's happening a lot with millennials, even if it's not being reported.

That is pretty chilling too, R382.

Heatstroke is NO JOKE and it comes on so fast. Best thing is to prevent it and have redundant safety plans such as a PLB when hiking. If there is not cell coverage it could save you or someone you come across.

by Anonymousreply 383September 2, 2021 11:32 PM

R382, alcohol can play a role

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by Anonymousreply 384September 2, 2021 11:33 PM

Yeah, the media won't report jumpers and every murder-suicide as such, for fear of copycats. But this isolation seems unbearable to some people... sorry, it is really chilling. It seems almost rote now.

by Anonymousreply 385September 2, 2021 11:38 PM

They did quite a 180 re: lifestyle, from SF and festivals and adventure tours to a very remote and rural lifestyle. They were 20 miles from a town of only 8,000 and working and going to school remotely. In winter it must be very isolated.

The isolation and stresses of cv have been very hard on many individuals and relationships, esp those who have experienced job losses and/or loss of loved ones.

by Anonymousreply 386September 2, 2021 11:46 PM

Check out the Locations Unknown podcast R318. They have an episode on Stacey Arras. The guys present the cases really well and have backgrounds in hiking.

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by Anonymousreply 387September 3, 2021 2:49 AM

Thanks, R387.

This short vid of part of the trail was on YT. It looks to be early in the season so not quite as desert like. In addition to the heat of the trail, some of it looks like rocky terrain to walk on or climb over for the dog, wonder if he hurt a paw in addition to the heat? I have seen dogs wearing boots/paw covers on trails, do not recall Oski having such gear in photos.

This is the less steep trail into the canyon, still not sure I would do it with a baby in a pack, throws balance off, or with an unleashed dog. Even on this part of the trail it is narrow in spots with a steep drop.

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by Anonymousreply 388September 3, 2021 2:55 AM

Great video, thanks for posting R388. Looks like a really rewarding hike, under the right circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 389September 3, 2021 4:58 AM

[quote] A neighbor saw the family driving toward the trailhead at 7:45 am. LE says that the family started their hike at "mid-morning." I wouldn't classify approx. 8:00 am as "mid-morning." Maybe LE does.

Yes. 8am is mid morning. Morning is over by 12 noon. When they report crimes in the early morning hours they mean 1,2 3 am.

by Anonymousreply 390September 3, 2021 5:06 AM

The dog's name was Oksi, not Oski.

by Anonymousreply 391September 3, 2021 7:31 AM

It was Oski, like the mascot.

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by Anonymousreply 392September 3, 2021 7:47 AM

R382 They could have had an unlimited supply of water, but as mentioned here before, that would not have helped. If the heat was that bad, and they had no shade (even then, after a certain point shade would not be life saving) or people that could identify their situation and somehow immediately get them to a medical facility, they were likely fucked before the knew it. Read the linked articles, and the stories here of those who have had their own close calls. When you have heatstroke, you are literally not in your right mind.

by Anonymousreply 393September 3, 2021 8:05 AM

Ah, R392, makes sense, she was a Berkeley grad.

by Anonymousreply 394September 3, 2021 1:55 PM

[quote] As an Incident Commander said during an Incident Team meeting for fighting the Ferguson Fire in 2018, “You my know that some of the peaks and gulches in this area have “Devil” in their name. There is a reason for that; the terrain is incredibly rugged and steep.”

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by Anonymousreply 395September 3, 2021 2:20 PM

And "Devil" etc. gives some of these people boners (lady or otherwise). We get it, sirs: You work at a desk and you MUST get back to nature and living on the edge. Tiresome types, one and all.

by Anonymousreply 396September 3, 2021 2:29 PM

R396 Not all of us who hike in wilderness areas are danger seeking madmen. Please fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 397September 3, 2021 2:45 PM

The relevant part of the quote

[quote] the terrain is incredibly rugged and steep

by Anonymousreply 398September 3, 2021 2:55 PM

If "Devil Gulch" or whatever doesn't turn you on as an "adventurer" then the above comment doesn't apply to you, you dolt.

by Anonymousreply 399September 3, 2021 2:55 PM

Rugged? Steep? Sounds manly.

by Anonymousreply 400September 3, 2021 2:56 PM

Hiking is not a danger-seeking activity.

by Anonymousreply 401September 3, 2021 3:03 PM

The NYT picked up the story today but no news. More "mystery" spin (e.g. Lightning strikes? Bigfoot?) and how the family were "devoted parents." Pffft.

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by Anonymousreply 402September 3, 2021 3:11 PM

I am surprised that they didn't have a PLB, they had the money and the cost has come down. Given how "we've got it handled" their thinking seemed to be and how heat stroke fucks up your thinking, not sure they would have used it if one was there.

They were careless parents, what happened was not unforeseeable.

Lightening may have been a factor on Saturday, not Sunday when they were on the trail.

These media stories and the language used needs to change if people are going to begin to understand the danger posed by heat.

Devoted parents prioritize SAFETY. Bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They did not, ergo, NOT devoted parents, living out their own ego drives, apparently.

Bigfoot? I'm going with Dumbasses for $500, pls,

by Anonymousreply 403September 3, 2021 3:15 PM

That's interesting, r402. It seemed like interest was dying down, now there's an NYT article about it. Kind of odd.

by Anonymousreply 404September 3, 2021 3:18 PM

NYT late to the party and of course they would spin it as "devoted parents." In NYT parlance that has to do with the right baby gear, clothes, and photographs. The mystery appeals to all the wannabe writers who read the NYT. Such a worthless newspaper now.

by Anonymousreply 405September 3, 2021 3:24 PM

[quote]I'm going with Dumbasses for $500, pls,

I'll take Recklessness and Stupidity for $1000.

by Anonymousreply 406September 3, 2021 3:26 PM

At this late date I can't imagine that they died from anything but the heat, and those "unknown dangers" are really "hot temps and poor air quality" and for some reason no one wants to officially admit that. The only question is why they were out there, which I'm afraid we'll probably never get a good answer to. Maybe they got lost or there was some kind of emergency that kept them out there longer than they should have been (dog ran off for a while, wife had some kind of health emergency) but nothing like that seems likely. I'm sticking around for toxicology results but doubt we'll learn anything that would explain what happened. It's very frustrating.

by Anonymousreply 407September 3, 2021 3:38 PM

I would have thought maybe wife had a health emergency given her prior TBI, which can cause issues with heat or her unspecified debilitating illness. But, she seemed to be the last on her feet.

Hopefully the phone will yield more data about route and how long they were out.

As long as negligent homicide is spun as devoted parenting, morons will be out on trails with tiny kids and dogs.

We all just saw how the most elite athletes were impacted by heat at the Olympics. But not these 2, they were just that SPECIAL, like Kreycik, above the limitations of mere mortals.

by Anonymousreply 408September 3, 2021 3:43 PM

Some of you ghouls, er, concerned citizens might be interested in this podcast about true crimes connected to national parks. Really reinforces my disinterest in camping.

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by Anonymousreply 409September 3, 2021 3:56 PM

[Quote] for some reason no one wants to officially admit that.

They don't belong to a demographic the media likes to shame.

by Anonymousreply 410September 3, 2021 4:13 PM

[quote} The couple had backpacked in the Himalayas, ridden camels through the Gobi Desert and checked off Burning Man, even creating their own hashtag, an amalgamation of their first names: #jellonadventures.

Lol, I initially thought #jellon must be the adventure travel company and they were merching it for deals/discounts, but then saw it re: Burning Man and thought maybe it was some weighty mystical yoga term. I could not even conceive it was branding, props to you PP. I mentioned I have relatives who do travel influencing on Insta in a minor way, young, attractive, have quite a following and before CV got comped like you would not believe. He parlayed it into a marketing niche job but they don't have a hashtag name, slackers.

Die young stay pretty?

Fucking miserable way to go. Bet they strapped the baby in an expensive car seat for the way over. And on a boat the dog had a spendy life vest. They owned it, you can see it in a photo on her Insta. All the gear...never got that idear, got lucky repeatedly, until they did not.

One LE person was overcome by heat on Tuesday morning getting the bodies out, doing dumb life risking shit puts others in harms way too. And killing your baby and dog is NEVER hip, trendy, LOVING or "well prepared."

by Anonymousreply 411September 3, 2021 4:17 PM

LE = Lucas Entertainment?

by Anonymousreply 412September 3, 2021 4:20 PM

Might the baby and dog have died long before the family reached the 7 mile mark?

by Anonymousreply 413September 3, 2021 4:21 PM

LE = Law Enforcement

by Anonymousreply 414September 3, 2021 4:21 PM

R413 Most likely.

by Anonymousreply 415September 3, 2021 4:22 PM

^sorry, fucked up the quoting, was from NYT at R411.

I am still going hiking this weekend, but have given up camping. Crazy shit happens in national parks. Used to trail run alone, got very lucky and was always ok.

by Anonymousreply 416September 3, 2021 4:22 PM

If the dog and baby died early, I wonder if that was a factor in why the parents didn't turn back. Maybe after a certain point, they decided to all "go out" together.

by Anonymousreply 417September 3, 2021 4:26 PM

[quote] Crazy shit happens in national parks. Used to trail run alone, got very lucky and was always ok.

You “got very lucky” in what sense? Almost always encountered an extra-hung jogger/camper sunbathing in the nude?

by Anonymousreply 418September 3, 2021 4:28 PM

I think so too, r415.

I'll get accused of being a drama llama which, fair enough, but on my most cynical days I think that the baby must have died early on and they panicked and made bad decisions that lead to their deaths, too.

by Anonymousreply 419September 3, 2021 4:30 PM

R409 R416 Predators are looking for easy marks and fast getaways. If you're with a group you're likely to be safe.

by Anonymousreply 420September 3, 2021 4:31 PM

R391 That’s definitely what’s most important here

by Anonymousreply 421September 3, 2021 4:36 PM

[quote] made bad decisions that lead to their deaths, too.

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 422September 3, 2021 4:46 PM

Hope so, R420. You never know what dumbasses are in the group. I mentioned an acquaintance who climbed in the Alps but who will rock up in running shoes, no gear, no water for a group hike. She joked about asking strangers to share water on a trail, during covid, she and a friend brought NONE for a summer climb up a nearby mountain. But, if you looked at her insta, and saw her extensive adventure travel you might think she was experienced and knowledgeable, which implies using experience to inform good judgment. Like Gerrish and Chung that is not how she rolls. Cousin of a buddy so our paths cross but I would never hike with her alone, she thinks being ill prepared is cute and taking unnecessary risks is "fun."

For anyone interested in hiking, going out with local Sierra Group hikes is a great way to learn skills, pick up info on local trails and find sane people to hike with who are not there for an adrenaline rush or just to show off fitness, conditions be damned.

Gerrish did not even look all that fit to be honest. The short sleeved Brit in the snow, have known types like that. Often they were wearing street shoes in their photos.

That poor dog and baby, both suffered that day.

by Anonymousreply 423September 3, 2021 5:03 PM

It definitely wasn't lightening that killed them.

by Anonymousreply 424September 3, 2021 5:41 PM

I don’t know why people keep suggesting lightning. A lightning strike would have left some wicked scars on the bodies.

by Anonymousreply 425September 3, 2021 5:54 PM

When is this damn tox screen coming out???

by Anonymousreply 426September 3, 2021 5:58 PM

R411 Haha, thanks. I recognized it as a portmanteau right away because most of the millenials I know do that corny shit, especially at weddings. So when Jane Smith marries John O’Brien, they’ll make a dumb hashtag like #JaneSaidOYes! or if Madison Jones is marrying Dave Peterson, it’ll be #DaveIsMadlyInLove. Usually makes me roll my eyes and feel secondhand embarrassment.

by Anonymousreply 427September 3, 2021 5:59 PM

Are you... spoken for?

by Anonymousreply 428September 3, 2021 6:03 PM

Why is R420 trying to lure us into the woods?

by Anonymousreply 429September 3, 2021 7:58 PM

R427, I don't think this was such a thing before SM and your own personal "brand." It's a bit much.

R425, people seem to want drama and for it to be something other than killed 12 month old, dog and selves through hubris and poor judgment, probably because they were reasonably attractive and social media presences. If they were old or ugly people would not be giving them the halo effect. Also, LE in Mariposa seems a bit dramatic too. And, of course, trail hazards DID need to be ruled out for public safety.

Anyone think we might get tox screens late today?

by Anonymousreply 430September 3, 2021 7:58 PM

R429, lol I'll hide behind you and bring the marshmallows for s'mores.

by Anonymousreply 431September 3, 2021 7:58 PM

R429 Oh, please. I'm an outdoors person. I try to prepare and take precautions, just as others have shared on these threads. Yeah, unfortunately there are creepy killers and predators who hang out in national parks. Are they going to keep me from taking wilderness treks? Fuck, no.

by Anonymousreply 432September 3, 2021 8:35 PM

Hope you are able to get outdoors this weekend, R432.

by Anonymousreply 433September 3, 2021 9:15 PM

I want to hear more about wilderness fucks.

by Anonymousreply 434September 3, 2021 9:16 PM

R434 On a rock ledge behind a waterfall.

by Anonymousreply 435September 3, 2021 9:27 PM

R364 The house at 5263 Charleton Rd., Mariposa (in the area called Jerseydale), is the house where the family was living at the time of their deaths.

Someone upthread said it would have been better for the family to make weekend trips to Mariposa rather than live there full time. Gerrish had been making weekend trips to Mariposa since 2016. He bought a house in 2018 but still lived in SF while working for Google.

Covid-19 hit in early 2020. Gerrish had left Google and was working for Snapchat. Gerrish was able to keep working remotely for Snapchat, so he and Ellen made the decision to move the family to the Carleton Rd. house. They bought the Carleton Rd house on July 20, 2020 for $410,000. Miju was born on Aug 4, 2020 right after they bought the new house.

There are so many factors that could have contributed to their deaths. It could have been a combination of those factors that ultimately killed them. The heat coupled with the wildfire smoke could have caused an inversion layer that trapped the algae bloom or other toxin in the family’s air that they were breathing.

Ellen was searching #swimmingholes, so the family could have been looking forward to swimming the 2 swimming spots along the trails noted by posters: Marble Head (?) and also Nutmeg Gulch (near Devil's Gulch).

I wonder if they had well water at their house. I imagine that they drank and cooked with bottled water. But unless their showers, bathtubs, washing machine, toilets, and sink faucets had water filters, they may have been exposed to toxins via well water or Mariposa’s water supply. I don’t know if chlorine in their swimming pool would kill all of the toxins.

The illegal grow operations in Mariposa pose a significant threat. They use pesticide from Mexico to keep animals and insects away from their cannabis crops. The pesticides could have washed into well water, Mariposa’s water supply, the Merced River at the trails. The land, air, trees (what is left of them), and shrubs at the trails could have been contaminated along with the river water.

Were any of their neighbors using pesticides to stop weeds, insects, or vermin? Were the neighbors dumping gasoline, oil, paint, paint thinner, wood sealant, or other toxic liquid or compound?

I still think that they could have been poisoned by something they ate at home or at a restaurant. LE didn’t mention finding vomit or diarrhea at the scene, so could they have ingested or been exposed to a toxin more dangerous than salmonella? You can get botulism from improperly cooked fish (i.e. smoked fish).

Could Ellen have been micro-dosing mushrooms as a treatment for depression and they were contaminated? She and Jonny could have been growing their own mushrooms at home and something got off. We need our DL mushroom expert to weigh in on this topic.

Below is a link to a lot of photos of the Chung-Gerrish family.

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by Anonymousreply 436September 4, 2021 4:15 AM

eta: They also could have eaten Magic Mushrooms, recreationally, or wild mushrooms that they found along the trails.

by Anonymousreply 437September 4, 2021 4:17 AM

[quote] Ellen was searching #swimmingholes, so the family could have been looking forward to swimming the 2 swimming spots along the trails

Why would you risk your one year old baby in water you know nothing about? Babies don't exactly have strong immune systems yet. Would it have made cool pictures for IG to show the family at a #swimminghole?

SMDH - the more I read the more I realize someone should have ripped their reproductive organs out years ago.

by Anonymousreply 438September 4, 2021 4:33 AM

They had a swimming pool, the baby was 12 months. I just don't get their thinking. Mines and swimming holes are adult or older kid amusements. They lived nearby, it was not their one chance to go. He liked mines and had commented on them on his AllTrails. She has lots of shots of them swimming or at waterfalls on SM. But with the toxic algae issue, why risk their own well being, never mind a dog and infant?

by Anonymousreply 439September 4, 2021 4:49 AM

There is a waterfall on the Hite Cove Trail. I'm trying to find out where it is located. The waterfall would be a point of interest for the family besides swimming holes, the river, and mines.

This drone video of the Hite Cove Trail was shot in 2017, a year before the devastating Ferguson Fire that burnt up all of the trees.

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by Anonymousreply 440September 4, 2021 4:53 AM

I think I read it was at least partly dried up from the drought, R440, maybe a local can chime in.

by Anonymousreply 441September 4, 2021 5:13 AM

[quote] On a rock ledge behind a waterfall.

yea, hard pass. Really hard.

by Anonymousreply 442September 4, 2021 5:16 AM

[quote] I want to hear more about wilderness fucks.

In the Ape Caves by Mt. St. Helens.

by Anonymousreply 443September 4, 2021 5:21 AM

I hadn't heard of possible lightening strikes until this morning.

by Anonymousreply 444September 4, 2021 3:41 PM

It has been discussed since the first thread.

109 is the likely fatal factor but the bodies being out in the heat for 2 days makes identifying. subtle physical signs of any kind more difficult. Lightening strikes were noted on Saturday, not the day they were hiking.

When the tox screens are back will rule out additional causes. Finds of heat stroke are often a diagnosis of exclusion.

by Anonymousreply 445September 4, 2021 3:51 PM

Lightening- To lighten. Lightning- Jagged streaks of light in the sky.

by Anonymousreply 446September 4, 2021 4:15 PM

It was *not* lightening. JFC.

by Anonymousreply 447September 4, 2021 4:29 PM

Doe Asians lighten?

by Anonymousreply 448September 4, 2021 4:37 PM

Thank you, r446. Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 449September 4, 2021 4:52 PM

I would have thought her work with the Red Cross might have made her more cautious. As was the case with the guy who died in Death Valley recently, no amount of CPR will lower core temp.

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by Anonymousreply 450September 4, 2021 6:01 PM

This study suggests that survivors of TBI, like Chung, can suffer chronic personality changes, such as increased impulsivity and a lack of insight and poor judgment. What's Gerish's excuse?

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by Anonymousreply 451September 4, 2021 6:44 PM

Anybody who would take a baby on a dangerous hiking trail or on a very long hike in triple digit heat is daft. There's no excuse for their actions.

by Anonymousreply 452September 4, 2021 7:25 PM

You think, r452? Thanks for that bold, brave opinion.

Michael Jackson died from lightening, you know.

by Anonymousreply 453September 4, 2021 7:41 PM

Same with a dog owner, R452.

Both of them liked to do risky things, people like that are not parents who prioritize safety, at least not when it gets in the way of what they want to do. Better that they did not do a complete 180 on their old life or left the baby and dog at home with caregivers when they needed to get their risk on.

I could not find another heat related hiking death case involving such a young kid and comparatively few with dogs, the Gerrish-Chungs were extraordinary in that respect. Most responsible adults are attuned to the needs of dependent infants (kid may not even have been walking yet) and pets.

Hard to avoid the kid's temp going over 104 when the ambient temp was 109, the sun was direct and she was encased in nylon and held close to another hot, sweating body.

Had they made it to the car they likely still would have died, AC is not enough when you need to be packed in ice. Is risking brain damage really not a big deal? Esp when she had already had a TBI? Locals hike that trail in spring and fall. The temps in Mariposa had been hot for days, it was 105 on Saturday. They likely went from ac in house to ac in car and didn't register it. They seemed to believe they were above restrictions that constrain mere mortals and ordinary canines. There were cooler hikes at different elevations with tree cover they could have driven to, although the air quality for miles was bad. What was the intense driver that trumped the sensory input and miserable conditions of it being in the 90s by 9?

Where did the info that she was researching swimming holes come from? Why risk that with the toxic algae and such a young baby, esp when you have a built in pool? If they felt so isolated and cooped up in the house maybe full time rural life was not a good fit. They said they moved for the baby but they did not really want to change other things, seemed more about self image.

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by Anonymousreply 454September 4, 2021 7:57 PM

If death is the end result of poor judgment, none of us would be living. Obviously additional measures have to be taken to remind everyone that the planet is hotter than ever requiring adjustment to the choices we make. I hate the heat and I'm grateful summer is ending. I would never exercise outdoors in the heat but people are different from one another. APPLE HEALTH has to put an alert on the phone/watch for heat warnings! When I listen to music at an elevated volume, my phone buzzes to tell me so! That jogger was out there racing at a breakneck speed during scorching heat and this is known by the data recorded in his devices.

Warning on baby gear: DO NOT USE IN TEMPERATURES EXCEEDING 80 DEGREES.

The surveillance/nanny state is already here. Why not use all this surveillance to save lives?

by Anonymousreply 455September 4, 2021 8:13 PM

I get it, R455, but 107 degrees is still 107 degrees. And it has always been thus.

by Anonymousreply 456September 4, 2021 9:07 PM

Yeah, the reminders that "it's hotter now" are daft. Devil's Armpit or whatever it's called wasn't named that yesterday.

by Anonymousreply 457September 4, 2021 9:24 PM

How could they have spun the dead baby and/or dog on Insta? The frame backpack carrier holds the baby up and a bit away, if the wife was in front with the dog on a leash, the baby could have died without them knowing. If they realized it when the father took the pack off they could have been stunned in grief and in sitting there in the direct sun and high temps, been overcome by heat themselves. That trail is narrow with a steep drop down to the river, they could not walk side by side for much of it and keeping the over heated dog away from the river would be a job in itself, until he had to be carried too. What would that dog be, about 45 lbs? I still think they would have taken the baby out if they were able to do so but they may have been pretty far gone by then.

He has posted about mines and climbs on his AllTrails, I think he just wanted to do this hike and they did not really factor in the baby and dog except to want to spend time with them. The weather did not factor at all until they were down the trail and the dog was suffering. They may have hurried down to the river, but then seeing the algae and dead fish. Really went sideways after that.

Those types of carriers don't seem all that safe for the steepness and poor quality of that trail at points. It can really throw off your center of gravity, even if fit, even that petite baby and the carrier would add 25 lbs. When she was younger they had a carrier that was right against the body, that would have been even hotter, but he would have had more awareness of the baby. Still not sure how the baby and dog were supposed to drink from a hose you have to bite down on.

If the wife was in front of him, they likely just thought the baby was asleep and were focused on the dog. And on how they were better for pushing through or whatever. Then, like Kreycik, things spiraled. The phone was in his pocket, not in his hand, I would have thought they would be trying to get a text through, as can sometimes work even when coverage is too poor for a call. I think that likely struck LE as odd too.

I wonder where the car keys were. Have they been mentioned in any of the accounts? If they really did make it through most of the loop that is pretty amazing in that heat. High price though.

Even with the lovely woods surrounding their home and the sweet built in pool and tiki bar, the drive to get out, to achieve, to do, was their undoing. Weekend warriors beware. And tell your sisters and friends NOT to procreate with them. This kind of addiction to outdoor risks may be more socially acceptable than some others but it can be deadly. Such a shame, the baby and dog were adorable. Ellen had overcome a lot. Such a pointless and easily avoidable end.

by Anonymousreply 458September 4, 2021 9:27 PM

No WONDER LE does not see this often.

[quote] In 2020 in the US, there were 17 deaths attributed to lightning, and 323 deaths attributed to heat.

Dumbassery and Darwin, play stupid games and, well, you don't even need to be a FA, you lack that awareness. Or can it be imputed?

by Anonymousreply 459September 4, 2021 10:54 PM

Story available at Fox affiliate, so linking to tweet.

[quote]The mysterious deaths of a Northern California family of hikers and their dog have led federal officials to close 28 miles along the Merced River, where high levels of toxic algae were detected. - KTVU

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by Anonymousreply 460September 5, 2021 5:20 AM

Thanks r460. The articles three days ago said an officer at the Bass Lake Ranger District said one water test has come back positive for harmful algae bloom. I guess the one source was an entire river, or much of the river, which I didn't realize, I guess I had assumed the one water test was for a singular pond or swimming hole.

by Anonymousreply 461September 5, 2021 5:58 AM

It is still unknown if the family went in the river or attempted for filter water from it, etc, this was based on the finding from the one water sample from the river, not their tox screens or testing of water that was with them.

by Anonymousreply 462September 5, 2021 1:10 PM

Don’t you have to consume the algae for it to kill you?

Also, wouldn’t the algae be on their skin and hair if they swam in it?

by Anonymousreply 463September 5, 2021 7:40 PM

Post at WS by woman who says she is a vet, interesting details re: heat stroke and after death findings 1/2

whewww…. few days away at work & had a lot of pages to catch up on. I wanted to respond to quite a few posts & the theories being raised/discussed. but I’ve come this far through all the pages that I’m not going back to find them! :) These quoted posts are the most in line with my thinking. As well as one by @RedHaus that I forgot to quote (again..not going back!)

I think the lightening is an interesting thought, but having grown up in the mountain west, dry lightning almost always started some sort of fire, either setting off the dry brush, or turning into a raging forest fire. Would ground lightening from many miles away eliminate risk of fire? I also question the notion of taking a lightning crouch & distancing space, if EC had enough time & cognizance of the strikes to get 30 yds away, wouldn’t one of them had time to remove the infant from the pack? I would think that leaving the child in a rigid pack that could stand on its own, so presumably has metal stantions, would that not leave your child at the greatest risk of all, as wouldn’t they essentially be attached to a lightning rod? yikes..

I personally find lightning less likely for that reason, as well as the fact that it overlooks the heat, but I would be able to entertain the idea of ground lightning as a 3rd possibility, maybe.

by Anonymousreply 464September 5, 2021 7:40 PM

Part 2/3

By 10AM it was dangerous for the dog to be 1.5 miles away from the car. My medical expertise only extends to animals, & I live a fairly childfree existence, but given what I know about neonatal/juvenile animals, I would say this risk extended to the infant as well. The river was several miles away, from either direction of the loop. & looking at the topography, the trail “along the river” is actually up above it cut into the hillside. I am sure there are several little goat trail access points to some of the deeper pools, but it is not as if once they got down to the river that the trail meandered right next to, in fact it might be a technical little jaunt to access it. If the family intended to get down to the river during the cooler times of day, cool off & splash around there throughout the heat of the day, & head back in the afternoon, as @SpideySense has theorized, they would have had to get a much earlier start than 0800, unless they were planning on a very brisk jog down there, which seems unlikely given one of them was packing a child. Despite sun position in the sky relative to the hills, heading back to the car, uphill, for several miles, at 4PM, would have been putting themselves performing strenuous activity in the absolute hottest part of the day (someone on thread #2 I believe posted hourly temps from El Portal). Just because the sun is not beating down on you, does not mean it’s shaded. Desert mountain valleys often “collect heat” & the ground is often radiating collected heat. This is a terribly dangerous plan for a dog full stop. The only way I could see this plan being survivable is if they planned to head back after dark (9-10PM), & if that had been their plan all along, with a baby & a dog, the parent not packing the child would likely have had to be equipped with a very large backpack to contain those sorts of provisions for that kind of full day adventure. There’s been no mention of their having this, so it seems faulty to assume, just as I’m sure others would think it’s faulty to assume they didn’t. LE quoted as saying they were “well prepared” could very easily just mean they had closed-toed shoes & a backpack with a bladder, which for a simple day hike, could be the truth. It’d be interesting to find out how this family prepared for their major treks through the Himalayas & Gobi - what kind of preppers were they? Months of research & planning; advice & recommendations from more experienced friends & family; or more spontaneous “we’ll figure it out as we go” type of attitude? I’m sure we’ll never know this, & I pass no judgement on any of the types (I probably fall closest to the latter camp myself), but I do think it does bear weight when considering “survivability” to some of the more extreme conditions one encounters in nature.

by Anonymousreply 465September 5, 2021 7:44 PM

Part 3/4

I understand wanting to keep the family’s best intentions at heart, but it requires suspending way too much disbelief about their level of preparedness & possibly even their intentions. IMO there was no way to recreate in this area safely with a pet the time of day they were out & in the environment they were in. I said this further back thread, but they only way I could see this being safe, with a dog, in this location, with a departure time after 0800, is if they had turned back to the car after traveling 1/2 mile, factor in the infant & I’d say it’d be safer to turn back after 1/4 mile. When my late best friend (canine) was decompensating from a neuromuscular disorder, I began relying heavily on my garmin watch to log our distance to make sure we didn’t overdo it, because I learned early on in the process that often she’d still have the energy to keep going, but if I let her lead the charge, she’d be hobbled on the way back & debilitated that night. The data was actually really tragic to look at, because I could see where we started having to turn around at 2 miles, then 1 mile, then 0.5 mile, then 0.25 mile in a span of several months. Kind of a major aside, but I think my point being is that dogs, even dogs with debilitating conditions, will often overexert themselves & express no cognizance of their limits until it is too late.

MSM quoting LE on saying “there was a small amount of water in a bladder” is inconsequential. A small amount of water could be enough to hydrate a human, enough to test, a small amount of water could be residual after the bladder had been open & dumped on an overheating family member. Some of the bladder designs have a lip which make it almost impossible to effectively purge them of water (my personal conspiracy theory is this is an intentional design flaw to promote mildew & hence new bladder sales..ha). As other posters have said, heatstroke & dehydration are 2 different beasts that often play together, but one can act without the other. The amount of water in a single bladder would not be enough to cool an overheating dog, particularly at room temps. Submersion in the river might help, if done right at onset of heat exhaustion signs, however the river was several miles away, & we don’t know the access points. I know another poster has stated this, I think @NSamuelle , but I’ll say it again. Heat related injuries start with heat stress, progress to heat exhaustion, & finally heat stroke. You should be getting out of the heat promptly at signs of heat exhaustion. Once at the level of heat stroke you have roughly 30 min. to reverse the process. One poster shared a really exemplary story of hiking to an alpine lake with their friend who sat down for a break & then quickly became delirious, had 2 other hikers not come along & helped them carry their companion to a lake to submerge him, he most assuredly would have died where he sat.

by Anonymousreply 466September 5, 2021 7:45 PM

How the fuck do you manage to misspell lightning then spell it correctly, then misspell it again in the same damn paragraph. It's not like that person was copying and pasting a bunch of separate quotes.

by Anonymousreply 467September 5, 2021 7:58 PM

Part 4/4 My last response that is coming to mind at the moment, is to someone that asked about heatstroke & autopsies showing evidence of multi-organ failure. Heatstroke can cause death via many processes, multi-organ dysfunction being only one of them. Death via failure of the central nervous system can occur prior to arriving at a state where organs fail, in layman’s terms: the brain gets cooked before the organs do. Heatstroke can kick off a terrible coagulation progress called disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC), or as one my pathology professors taught, “Death Is Coming”, where the body begins abnormally producing microvascular blood clots, & consuming platelets & clotting factors to do so. This process is complex & nearly irreversible (in vet med at least even at advanced facilities), but one essentially dies from this via blood clot to vital organ or hemorrhage. Depending on where you die in the process & when postmortem samples are collected, it could be difficult (but not impossible) to diagnose at necropsy. General rule of thumb is that if you want to find out why an animal died, you get the body cooled, not frozen, & overnighted to the pathology lab, & even then I’ve seen results be fairly inconclusive. Extreme heat & extreme cold after death can greatly impact definitive diagnoses when the answer lies in the tissues. And at normal temperatures, time is going to be a factor as regular old run of the mill decomposition is going to confound results.

by Anonymousreply 468September 5, 2021 8:05 PM

More heat related deaths, leave pets at home. Makes sense that canyons might be hotter as was the case with Devil's Gulch.

[quote] It seems every second day I receive an LAFD alert of hikers in distress in my general area. Many are due to injury or being stuck in some way, but a few are due to heat related issues. Yesterday there was one in Will Rogers State Park, a hiker with two dogs. Hoisting by helicopter was required. One dog was deceased, the other in severe medical distress. It wasn't even that hot yesterday, seemingly, but once you are in the canyons I think people don't realize how heat can be exacerbated by reflection off rocks, the dry dirt trails, and little shade.

by Anonymousreply 469September 5, 2021 8:08 PM

That vet sounded fucking exhausting.

by Anonymousreply 470September 5, 2021 8:47 PM

So if the bodies were left out to cook after they died, the autopsies might not be able to show conclusively what happened?

by Anonymousreply 471September 5, 2021 11:55 PM

R471 Correct. One may be able to conclude the deaths were heat-related only after ruling out all other causes. That's why they are waiting on the toxicology report.

by Anonymousreply 472September 6, 2021 12:00 AM

With that trail runner, who was out in the heat for weeks, they said he had a medical emergency.

by Anonymousreply 473September 6, 2021 1:04 AM

^ rather than a more specific finding. But, was pretty decomposed. This family, less so.

by Anonymousreply 474September 6, 2021 2:38 AM

That vet sounds logical.

by Anonymousreply 475September 6, 2021 4:02 AM

Wow, it's sure taking them a long time to finish the tests and reports.

by Anonymousreply 476September 6, 2021 4:45 AM

This isn't long for toxicology. The autopsies were performed on the 19th and it isn't only Stanislaus County handling the tox. The Bureau of Forensic Services (CA DoJ) is also involved.

by Anonymousreply 477September 6, 2021 5:23 AM

I can't read 467 posts, sorry.

You know they've closed miles of the river down because of toxic algae, right?

by Anonymousreply 478September 6, 2021 5:27 AM

There is a story right now on the daily mail talking about the confirmed toxic algae.

So did they all go for a dip and then drop dead maybe a few hours later?

by Anonymousreply 479September 6, 2021 7:03 AM

R480 my theory is still valid: the dog started to suffer from heatstroke, the panicky owners carried him to the closest body of water to dunk him in and cool him off. Inadvertently, the parents came into contact with the algae. Curtains all around.

by Anonymousreply 480September 6, 2021 7:49 AM

Possibly, or maybe the dog jumped into the river and they went in after him. You'd think that they would have found algae on their clothing if that had happened, but maybe they did and they just haven't said yet.

by Anonymousreply 481September 6, 2021 11:18 AM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 482September 6, 2021 1:13 PM

Toxic algae can kill upon contact? Really?

There would have been evidence of it all over their bodies and in their hair. Gerrish was a hairy fella. So was the dog. There would have been bits of algae clinging.

It had to be heat stroke.

by Anonymousreply 483September 6, 2021 1:21 PM

They would have been crispy upon discovery. Hours baking in the sun.

by Anonymousreply 484September 6, 2021 2:02 PM

[quote]Toxic algae can kill upon contact? Really? There would have been evidence of it all over their bodies and in their hair. Gerrish was a hairy fella. So was the dog. There would have been bits of algae clinging.

Toxic algae can become aerosolized in moving water. r493. Inhaled, it can very quickly cause respiratory distress. I had this happen to me some time ago in a beachfront restaurant with open windows. One of our party was an asthmatic. He began having difficulty breathing, and had to use an emergency inhaler. Before long, we all started having trouble breathing. and the restaurant was shut down.

We had breathed in toxic algae from the ocean.

by Anonymousreply 485September 6, 2021 2:12 PM

How did they die?

by Anonymousreply 486September 6, 2021 2:47 PM

Well, R486

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by Anonymousreply 487September 6, 2021 3:20 PM

I very much dislike his speaking voice.

by Anonymousreply 488September 6, 2021 3:22 PM

[quote] While officials and authorities await toxicology reports, it's now being firmly believed that the family was poisoned by drinking the water in and around the area.

By who? Keyboard warriors? Lazy journos are running with ideas posted online here and elsewhere re: lightning despite no evidence. Until tox results are back there is no reason to think they drank the water.

by Anonymousreply 489September 6, 2021 3:24 PM

I expected a more confident and alpha vibe from someone who would do such a risky thing with his family. Very Peter Panish, he liked to look at mines and did not like to feel bound by rules of common sense that pertained to the normies.

by Anonymousreply 490September 6, 2021 3:28 PM

[quote]They were last seen by a witness around 7:45 pm on August 15, traveling up to the hiking trail in a truck, which was found parked at the Hites Cove trailhead - just 1.5 miles away from where the family is believed to have died.

Is this true?

by Anonymousreply 491September 6, 2021 3:30 PM

Or was "7:45 PM" a typo?

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by Anonymousreply 492September 6, 2021 3:32 PM

R492 meaww.com is not a trustworthy source. It's a fake news website from India.

by Anonymousreply 493September 6, 2021 4:12 PM

Brackish.

by Anonymousreply 494September 6, 2021 4:19 PM

I would like to know how authorities determined that they’d hiked most of the trail loop vs starting near where they were found and dying as they tried to turn back.

by Anonymousreply 495September 6, 2021 4:42 PM

They were spotted at 7:45 AM not pm. So they started out early so it would be cooler. Their deaths were probably a combination of the algae which incapacitated them, they couldn't move and the heat ultimately got them.

by Anonymousreply 496September 6, 2021 4:59 PM

I believe they have said footprints were found at the HC trailhead and they were found on SL, so loop would make most sense. Perhaps there will be phone data that can confirm route.

R496, why would you drink river water that is green and full of dead fish?

I am curious if LE will speak to whether or not they had a water filter with them. It would not make the water safe but would go to intent.

Until tox reports are back we don't know if they drank or swam in the river. Had there not been the algae, doing so would have cooled them down so they might have lived. Still, horrible idea to hike there, no easy out from that canyon that was 109+ and no cell service. This time they did not even have the gear, just "no idea" they could easily have afforded a PLB. Cell coverage in Mariposa is poor they had to know there was a likelihood of not having it in a very deep canyon. No redundancies or safety plans.

by Anonymousreply 497September 6, 2021 5:04 PM

3 Litres of water for an 8 mile hike between 4 mammals?

by Anonymousreply 498September 6, 2021 5:15 PM

I've been an avid hiker for the last six years and I'll admit, I have made some dumb decisions and had some close calls with underestimating distances particularly on hot days.

But, once you add the baby to the mix, I just don't understand--especially these days with helicopter parenting--why they wouldn't have taken a satellite beacon with them or something along those lines.

by Anonymousreply 499September 6, 2021 5:31 PM

Or not gone at all, maybe?

by Anonymousreply 500September 6, 2021 5:33 PM

It is hard to understand, R499. esp as they could well afford it, were into gear and were familiar with poor cell coverage in the entire area. A canyon sure was not gonna be better. There was no quick exit if the dog or baby got into trouble. The SL trail has a huge gain in elevation in less than a mile, switchbacks make it possible to climb, otherwise the trail would be too steep to be navigable. He had done at least part of the trail in the past but prior to the fire that took out all the tree cover.

It was 105 the day before, so it was not a freak take you by surprise heat spike. Bet they spent all or most of that in ac.

CA rescues a lot of people via helicopter, some die, many dogs do. The costs to the taxpayer must be high. Not sure why there is not a more directed PSA campaign about heat?

by Anonymousreply 501September 6, 2021 5:37 PM

Well, these people are outliers. I can see why they wouldn't be itching to make an ad campaign for such types.

by Anonymousreply 502September 6, 2021 5:47 PM

There are a LOT of rescues, R502. Costs a lot of $$$ and at times risks to SAR as well.

But, it is a big industry that brings in $ in some pretty remote areas, plus all the big corps that sell gear. Balancing act I suppose.

The locals on the Mariposa Trails group said they would not hike SL in August and after all, no one else was on the trail for days or they would have been found.

Doubt they really understood the risk they were taking. Gobi was a tour and BM has medics but both made them think they had a good basis of knowledge. If they did NOT intend to filter river water they had way too little with them. And if they did intend to filter it they should easily have found the warning about toxic algae when researching the hike. If you can't carry enough water to make the length and heat of the hike safe, time to re-assess.

by Anonymousreply 503September 6, 2021 5:52 PM

[Quote] There are a LOT of rescues, [R502]

And do those rescued tend to fall into the camp that wouldn't heed a safety campaign?

by Anonymousreply 504September 6, 2021 5:54 PM

Tragically, this family may become the safety campaign.

by Anonymousreply 505September 6, 2021 6:06 PM

*And do those rescued tend to fall into the camp that would heed a safety campaign?

by Anonymousreply 506September 6, 2021 6:07 PM

Probably some would, R506, esp if they understood if you live you can have brain damage and that no amount of water, gear or fitness can prevent heat stroke when recreating in triple digit temps. Closing the trails is also a way to deter most.

Lightning is getting more press attention in CA, not sure if they are just picking up on the NYT article that seemed sourced from online chat boards or if there is actual LE evidence to suggest it.

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by Anonymousreply 507September 6, 2021 6:42 PM

Ah, never mind the NYT bs piece seems to have been the source for a round of clickbait based on internet speculation based on nothing.

I do not think an undetected/reported strike travelled underground and killed them. The heat is most likely, maybe the algae played a role if it became aerosolized.

The quality of journalism re: this story is almost as poor as their safety skills.

by Anonymousreply 508September 6, 2021 6:45 PM

Not so far, R505. The mpst outlandish straws seem to be being grasped at thus far.

by Anonymousreply 509September 6, 2021 6:48 PM

R508 Thank you. Here's the deal. Lightening, algae, and angry illegal marijuana growers with guns and using deadly pesticides all could have contributed to their death like a bad Agatha Christie script, and still heat would have killed them anyway. If the police are taking their cues from online comments, then I have no faith this case will ever be solved.

by Anonymousreply 510September 6, 2021 6:58 PM

I think it is the lazy journos taking their cues from message boards, LE says waiting on tox screens.

by Anonymousreply 511September 6, 2021 7:03 PM

L ight E ning.

by Anonymousreply 512September 6, 2021 7:05 PM

In cooler weather, how long would it take to hike from where they started to where they were found?

by Anonymousreply 513September 6, 2021 7:44 PM

Without the dog and baby or with? Without I would say around 3 hours, closer to 4 to get to the top of SL, it has a crazy elevation climb over 1 mile. With would be more stops, etc. and slower to compensate for the weight, etc.

There has been some speculation that he was interested in old mines and thus this hike might have had appeal. A baby and a dog seem like very poor companions to investigate abandoned mines. Or to hike in triple digits. Sometimes there are tradeoffs in life, shoulda left the baby and dog at home with a sitter or the nanny.

by Anonymousreply 514September 6, 2021 8:13 PM

Another hiker found dead in a national park today.

by Anonymousreply 515September 6, 2021 10:54 PM

Suicide?

by Anonymousreply 516September 6, 2021 10:56 PM

[quote] I expected a more confident and alpha vibe from someone who would do such a risky thing with his family. Very Peter Panish

Real alpha men do not need to do stupid thing or prove they're alpha with pictures of them doing alpha things things. They also don't have a problem being smart and taking care of those they are entrusted with like a ONE YEAR OLD BABY.

He was not an alpha male.

by Anonymousreply 517September 6, 2021 11:06 PM

Was she an alpha female?

by Anonymousreply 518September 6, 2021 11:08 PM

Link r515?

by Anonymousreply 519September 6, 2021 11:24 PM

Seemed to be an accidental death, R516.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 520September 6, 2021 11:27 PM

This is an interesting piece with some good advice for those visiting national parks, based on past SAR activity. Should be required reading at the gate.

[quote] "'You always want to have it in the forefront in your mind that turning around could be a good decision. Could be a great decision...It's often seemingly benign oversights that contribute to trouble, such as forgetting a life vest, not checking the forecast, being unprepared for the difficulty of a hike or setting off into the wilds alone...It's not typically one mistake that ends in a catastrophic event, it's typically a cascade of events.'" (Eric Gabriel, Ranger, Glacier National Forest)

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by Anonymousreply 521September 6, 2021 11:29 PM

[quote] Park officials cite hiking alone, not properly preparing for a trip, poor decision-making and taking on activities without the necessary expertise, gear or fitness level as factors in many of the fatalities that have occurred the past 10 decades.

by Anonymousreply 522September 6, 2021 11:29 PM

I should have left the wife behind.

by Anonymousreply 523September 6, 2021 11:30 PM

[quote] But with the toxic algae issue, why risk their own well being, never mind a dog and infant?

It's likely they'd never heard of toxic algae. I've been hiking for decades, and I can't say I knew much about it or its dangers before this story.

by Anonymousreply 524September 6, 2021 11:35 PM

We're trending!

[Quote] this family may become the safety campaign.

by Anonymousreply 525September 6, 2021 11:35 PM

Does anyone else find this just a little suspicious?

From lost but found Glacier Girl at R520

[quote] Coleman was remembered by The AWARE Foundation Inc — a group that advocates for missing people and is led by her parents Hal and Sharon Coleman.

by Anonymousreply 526September 6, 2021 11:36 PM

I should have had competent parents.

by Anonymousreply 527September 6, 2021 11:36 PM

As they seem to have set off at 7:45 presumably they were going to do their hike before noon and before the real hot temperatures picked up. So I assume they were incapacitated during the morning.

by Anonymousreply 528September 6, 2021 11:52 PM

I was struck by that too, R526. Had to read it twice, thought I misunderstood.

by Anonymousreply 529September 7, 2021 12:44 AM

[R481]'s reply makes sense. Esp. if the dog was hot and couldn't take it anymore.

by Anonymousreply 530September 7, 2021 1:04 AM

I would like to know exactly where they were found. Using the video of the chopper removing the bodies, I tried to match the terrain on Google Maps. Comparing the landscape along the trail with the chopper video, the only terrain that matches is near the river along the Hite Cove Trail, not the Savage Lundy Trail. Yet LE/SAR has said they were on SLT.

by Anonymousreply 531September 7, 2021 3:45 AM

LE said they were found on the switchbacks of the SL trail.

by Anonymousreply 532September 7, 2021 3:49 AM

R532- Thanks, I just am unable to match the terrain with the chopper video background with the image of the switchbacks on Google Earth or Google maps, but that is probably because I am hopeless at it, 😆.

by Anonymousreply 533September 7, 2021 4:03 AM

It's weird that people have been talking so much about the potential of toxic algae to have figured into this, and yet the fake doctor from the last thread who was incensed at anyone who suggested toxic algae hasn't said a thing about it for days.

by Anonymousreply 534September 7, 2021 5:36 AM

Me too, r495. We've already gotten some contradictory info from the authorities, it seems to depend on who's talking to the media as to what they say. My gut feeling is that they hadn't gone the whole way, that they'd initially stayed on the Hite's Cove trail and fairly early on in their hike, something happened to make them panic (dog overheated, baby overheated, dog got into algae, whatever) and they panicked while rushing back to their truck, and turned at the fork and ended up on the switchbacks on Savage-Lundy. By the time they realized they were on the wrong trail, they were all overheated and couldn't make it back up to the trailhead.

by Anonymousreply 535September 7, 2021 5:42 AM

Clearly the dead family ain't the only stupid cunts in this case, the officials are dumb and incompetent as well.

by Anonymousreply 536September 7, 2021 6:12 AM

Interesting r535. They were on a different route, turned back but got on the wrong trail. Are trails signposted at junctions like this?

by Anonymousreply 537September 7, 2021 1:22 PM

Regardless, any hiker or person with common sense knows that if you are descending 2000 feet you are going to have to climb back up it. On whichever trail. On SL much of the elevation is gained in 1 mile of switchbacks. But had they hiked out HC would still be a climb out. That canyon is deep. The ground absorbs and radiates heat, as does the rock, if 109 was registered a few miles away, in the shade, the temp in the canyon was higher. Humans and canines and baby humans are literally not able to discharge that kind of heat. Exertion in climbing up any trail makes the stress on the body worse. The air quality was also poor due to the fires, another stressor.

Total clusterfuck. NO ONE ELSE was on that trail for days because no one else wanted to commit suicide by heat stroke. These dumbasses may not even have had that cognition. But, not seeing other hikers is a sign. The trail reviews being from another season, a sign.

Some think they may have gone partly DOWN SL then died, having never gotten to the river. Maybe the phone will prove their route if it registered. I would find it surprising if they had done so much of the loop, that is a long hike in hot rugged terrain. LE had that on a timeline then it was deleted but not commented on. If they had made it most of the way around they had to be moving fast, which seems unlikely with the dog. Given the heat conditions not sure how easy it would be to prevent the dog from heading towards and into the river. Wonder if the dog was on a hand held leash or one of the leads that wraps around the waist, although that would seem to be a tripping hazard when packing an infant on a trail.

The wife was too small to pack the baby on SL or to carry a decent sized dog. The guy was no spring chicken, he may have had cardiac symptoms trying to do both in that heat on those switchbacks. Once he sat down, like the trail runner, curtains. When you need to be packed in ice to prevent brain damage and death, sitting in rising heat is no solution. "All the gear" but no PLB. Cheaped out where it mattered most. The dog was older, in the age range most likely to be affected by heat stroke, in addition to his coat type. I can see where people speculate about FA but I don't think they had the intent, just blinded by stupidity and arrogance. Had to be fucking miserable, like a forced march in an oven, climbing to the point your body gives out. HS causes cognitive impairment so there may not have been some moment of insight, realization, regret, just dumbasses until the end.

by Anonymousreply 538September 7, 2021 1:48 PM

Ugh, you might not even die from HS immediately, you may have multiple organ failure and LINGER before death.

Heat is scary. Avoid it.

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by Anonymousreply 539September 7, 2021 1:55 PM

[quote] A Fayette County family is pleading for help after their daughter was hospitalized following a tragic hiking accident. According to the family's GoFundMe page, 26-year-old Rebecca Rowan was hiking on a trail with her brother near Tucson, Arizona. The pair ran out of water during the hike and accidentally wandered off the trail when they became confused due to heat exhaustion and dehydration. Rebecca fell unconscious before first responders could reach them and is in critical condition at a Tucson hospital. The family says she will need a double transplant of a liver and kidneys in order to survive. Rebecca's insurance had lapsed and a GoFundMe page has been created to help the family cover the costs of her surgery.

Unreal. It seems so healthy but the risks are real, to your life, your organs and finances too.

by Anonymousreply 540September 7, 2021 1:57 PM

[Quote] where people speculate about FA

Fuck All?

by Anonymousreply 541September 7, 2021 2:01 PM

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

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by Anonymousreply 542September 7, 2021 2:14 PM

FA = family annihilator

I don't think this result was planned, more the opposite. Outcome was the same as if he had pulled a gun on all of them though. And we know he was the one researching the hike per LE. But, wife seemed to be as much of a dumbass who thought that prior close calls had not been a wake up call but rather they had survived due to their "spirit dog" wtf that means.

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by Anonymousreply 543September 7, 2021 2:18 PM

I honestly don't know if there's a signpost there r537, but I haven't been able to find a photo or even an indication there is one. Maybe there's a mention on some AllTrails comments, I'll check that next.

I also want to know exactly where they were found because if they were still on Hite's Cove, that would certainly make more sense than ending up on Savage-Lundy.

by Anonymousreply 544September 7, 2021 2:23 PM

They were found on the switchbacks of SL.

It is possible that they went down SL and were going back up. LE had originally stated that they thought they were doing the loop, HC to SL but that was deleted from a timeline. There had been talk of footprints on HC.

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by Anonymousreply 545September 7, 2021 2:31 PM

I did find this comment on AllTrails which seems to indicate that there's a gate you go through to get onto Savage-Lundy. If there is or there's a sign then my theory that they went the wrong way when trying to get back to their truck wouldn't be very likely.

[quote]We hiked this trail Memorial weekend 2019. A few wild flowers still out but mostly are gone. The first mile is paved/gravel road through Hite's Cove, a community of summer/rental cabins. The rest of the trail is maintained fire road. We went straight past the forest service gate onto Savage Lundy trail instead of turning right when Hite's Cove trail turns right and downhill. Savage Lundy trail drops into the Canyon below, as does Hite's Cove trail.

by Anonymousreply 546September 7, 2021 2:34 PM

There are rumors of them being seen by or possibly interacting with a witness that would support starting the HC trail but I do not think LE has confirmed. Hopefully phone data will support a finding of what route they took. If they had only gone partway down SL then there would be no interacting with the river.

by Anonymousreply 547September 7, 2021 2:35 PM

They were ultimately found on the switchbacks on SL.

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by Anonymousreply 548September 7, 2021 2:40 PM

This thread feels like there are only two or at most three posters, who keep saying the same things over and over.

by Anonymousreply 549September 7, 2021 2:45 PM

Your contribution greatly adds to the discussion, R549, thank you.

by Anonymousreply 550September 7, 2021 2:53 PM

R544, lots of detail here

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by Anonymousreply 551September 7, 2021 2:58 PM

I wasn't able to get the article to load without a paywall r551 but what I saw just before it got blocked off makes it look like there is indeed a gate before you get onto Savage-Lundy, which would make it unlikely that they went through the gate thinking it was the way up to where they parked.

by Anonymousreply 552September 7, 2021 3:48 PM

Until something new comes out I am so over this thread. This story is getting repetitive and dull with no new news.

by Anonymousreply 553September 7, 2021 5:11 PM

Yes, we should put it on ice until new information comes in - information from reputable sources not clickbait bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 554September 7, 2021 5:12 PM

Amazing post, R553, thanks for advancing the discussion!

by Anonymousreply 555September 7, 2021 5:12 PM

Amazing post? Ugh. I think the Tapatalk gals are among us. Again.

by Anonymousreply 556September 7, 2021 5:13 PM

Whatever that is, R556, feel free to go there!

by Anonymousreply 557September 7, 2021 5:16 PM

You can't "advance" the discussion without new information R555. This thread has devolved into just rehashing old info and a lot of guessing and innuendo without proof.

by Anonymousreply 558September 7, 2021 5:16 PM

The irony is rich with some of you.

by Anonymousreply 559September 7, 2021 5:18 PM

Doubtful R559.

by Anonymousreply 560September 7, 2021 5:21 PM

When I was a kid, my parents always left me home with Dilcy our housekeeper when they traveled. At the time, I felt left out. But now, I'm rather grateful. I did get to watch soap operas all day and eat the extra cake filling.

by Anonymousreply 561September 7, 2021 5:43 PM

[quote]This thread has devolved into just rehashing old info and a lot of guessing and innuendo without proof.

That's what the threads have mostly been from the beginning. You're only griping about it now because you're impatient.

We've hardly gotten any information, and what we have gotten has often been vague or later contradicted by a different spokesperson. It's starting to seem like the authorities panicked and announced something terrible and unusual had happened without having any evidence of that being true at all.

Getting snippy with people for no reason and dramatically announcing that you are LEAVING the THREAD because of BOREDOM isn't going to change any of that.

by Anonymousreply 562September 7, 2021 5:44 PM

I'm not getting snippy or announcing anything, you fucking drama queen. I merely stated this is basically stalled right now and boring.

Did you somehow that this personally, FFS? Some of you queens are really, really odd.

by Anonymousreply 563September 7, 2021 5:49 PM

A poll would be a fun way to start the next thread. What are the top theories?

Heat Toxic Algae Murder/Suicide/FA Lightning Illegal growers killed them Bigfoot/Missing 411

Did I miss any of the popular ones? Anyone know how to create a poll?

by Anonymousreply 564September 7, 2021 5:49 PM

Sorry, it should read "Did you somehow TAKE this personally"

by Anonymousreply 565September 7, 2021 5:52 PM

I saw a post elsewhere that the temps when they were in the Gobi desert on an adventure trip were lower than the temps in Devil's Gulch the day of the hike. If it gave them a false sense of mastery over heat, bit misplaced and tragic.

I think some of you have replaced "pointless bitchery" with "pointless bickering" - perhaps a nap is in order?

by Anonymousreply 566September 7, 2021 5:53 PM

[quote]I'm not getting snippy or announcing anything, you fucking drama queen.

You announced you were "so over" this thread and (ironically) complained repeatedly that it's become repetitive.

[quote]Did you somehow that this personally, FFS? Some of you queens are really, really odd.

I said some of you are getting snippy. That got you so upset that you started cussing at me and getting homophobic, and couldn't even type your sentence correctly.

by Anonymousreply 567September 7, 2021 5:56 PM

So, boys, any of you on the Chris Watts/FA train?

by Anonymousreply 568September 7, 2021 6:01 PM

I think some of you are hot for tragedy.

by Anonymousreply 569September 7, 2021 6:01 PM

Actually, R569, I'd prefer they were all alive and well.

by Anonymousreply 570September 7, 2021 6:07 PM

Then why do you hang around this thread?

by Anonymousreply 571September 7, 2021 6:07 PM

R567 I never got snippy. That's how you interpreted it and I make typos quite often so it's not you "upsetting me". That's quite funny. DL actually needs an edit function. My question is why are you so offended and taking this personally?

R571, the same reason most people visit a thread. The hope that something new is happening. Alas, with this subject nothing new.

by Anonymousreply 572September 7, 2021 6:45 PM

[quote] The hope that something new is happening. Alas, with this subject nothing new.

Lots of threads where this is not the case.

by Anonymousreply 573September 7, 2021 7:07 PM

R573 what? I'm not talking about other cases. I'm talking about this one.

by Anonymousreply 574September 7, 2021 7:12 PM

I hang around thinking somebody will eventually post the fucking toxicology results..

by Anonymousreply 575September 7, 2021 7:40 PM

Yeah, me too R575.

by Anonymousreply 576September 7, 2021 7:42 PM

[quote] You can't "advance" the discussion without new information

Of course you can. Someone may be able to look at the evidence available with fresh eyes and make it make sense.

Just because we have been limited in this regard does not mean it can't happen.

by Anonymousreply 577September 7, 2021 7:47 PM

R577, you are way too vested. Just let the cops finish and get the tox results. What you are suggesting is relying on speculation by armchair forensics specialists who know nothing and are worse that an old lady gossip coffee klatch.

by Anonymousreply 578September 7, 2021 7:51 PM

Next thread

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by Anonymousreply 579September 7, 2021 8:01 PM

R578, this is a board that is primarily used by gay men. Your constant references to individual posters as women or "old ladies" is homophobic. Knock it off. You have been told this repeatedly. Your attempts to silence and control what and when others posts suggests you may be happier with a blog where you can moderate comments. No one made you hall monitor. If the thread makes you unhappy, stop reading/posting until there are major developments. Don't shit on it for everyone else. If you can't stop, take meds and in the meantime many will block you.

by Anonymousreply 580September 7, 2021 8:27 PM

In the words of our webby Muriel:

Please use the Flames and freaks, ignore poster and ignore thread features instead of engaging in pointless arguments with trolls. You are not going to change their minds. They do not care what you post. All they care about is the attention they receive. Don't give it to them.

It is not possible to ban trolls on an anonymous board because they use anonymous proxies and other tools to mask the origin of their posts. We can however limit their ability to deface the site and deny them what they are looking for - your attention.

If you don't want to see a thread click the ignore thread button. If you don't want to see a particular poster's posts click the ignore poster button. If and only if the post is racist or homophobic or otherwise unacceptable click the flames and freaks button. This site implements an experience based scheme to track the reputation of posters and manage poster's permission to interact with other users.

Users with some experience viewing the site are allowed to reply and vote in polls. Users with a lot of experience posting are allowed to start threads and mod others posts. Users with negative reputation (lots of flames and freaks and ignores on their posts) are restricted from posting, modding and voting in polls. Users with very negative reputation results in their posts disappearing. Paid members are subject to karma - paying is not a free pass to post here.

by Anonymousreply 581September 7, 2021 8:32 PM

Thank you R581. I've been here four years and never known all that. I just trusted that eventually someone would explain, and you did.

by Anonymousreply 582September 7, 2021 8:56 PM

R580, knock it off. I'm gay and been here since 95. Do NOT threaten others.

by Anonymousreply 583September 7, 2021 9:22 PM

That was meant for R581 btw. Someone needs to lighten up and take their medication.

by Anonymousreply 584September 7, 2021 9:24 PM

R580 no shit? You seem as if YOU are trying to control what people post. I know exactly what Muriel likes and dislikes. All I posted is how dull the thread has gotten. You've got a mental issue my little friend.

by Anonymousreply 585September 7, 2021 9:29 PM

Wow, R583, R584 and R585 are all the same poster. The first step is admitting you can't stop, PP.

You may be under the delusion that your posts about how shit everyone else's posts are is somehow sparkling wit that adds to the thread, but, no. You may not think you are derailing, but...

I had not wanted to block you since I have seen you make decent contributions to other threads but you are off the rails with this one.

by Anonymousreply 586September 7, 2021 9:54 PM

I am actually dying to hear the tox report. I would like a definitive answer, even though we all know it’s Occam’s Razor = heat stroke. I’ve learned a ton in these threads too. I’ve actually contemplated retiring in Mariposa, I love it there, and I did not know about the contaminated water due to growers. My last trip there I drove through where the fire was, near where they hiked.

by Anonymousreply 587September 7, 2021 11:05 PM

We may not get one, R587, with the decomposition and all.

Were you contemplating living in the town or farther out, as they did? It does seem lovely as long as there are no fires nearby. And the houses are a relative steal for the money.

by Anonymousreply 588September 8, 2021 12:30 AM

The sheriff speaks about the case briefly and about the toxins in the water, from 9/2.

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by Anonymousreply 589September 8, 2021 12:55 AM

He says there are no reports of livestock or animals having died from drinking the water.

by Anonymousreply 590September 8, 2021 12:59 AM

Their being so far into this trail, and it possibly being bc of an error that took them in the wrong direction makes me think they were bickering or arguing. It's easy to cover more distance than planned when fueled by anger.

They'd gone beyond their points of no return.

by Anonymousreply 591September 8, 2021 1:12 AM

[quote] They'd gone beyond their points of no return.

That does sound ominous.

Who would we cast in the film?

by Anonymousreply 592September 8, 2021 1:18 AM

This did not make it onto the poll on the new thread but seems plausible? Guess it could have incapacitated them?

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by Anonymousreply 593September 8, 2021 1:21 AM

A dead climber.

So many of these stories.

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by Anonymousreply 594September 8, 2021 2:38 AM

While we're waiting for the results, can we talk more about the father's uncut dick? I bet he had a big bush and a long foreskin.

by Anonymousreply 595September 8, 2021 2:40 AM

Recap as of today

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by Anonymousreply 596September 8, 2021 3:25 AM

R588, I would live further out from “downtown” Mariposa. But the reality is that it isn’t wise to become elderly in the country, their hospital is the size of a Walgreens, the sign for it is literally a hanging wood shingle. And I already have health problems, so I’m not sure why I torture myself with the fantasy of living there. Another concern is indeed fire — it is a risk for sure.

by Anonymousreply 597September 8, 2021 3:32 AM

Maybe visits to the country would be better, R597. The winters seem really isolating and driving on twisty roads with drop offs seems stressful as you age. Not surprised re: the hospital, Mariposa is pretty small.

The fires are a huge risk and then trying to get out if you wait too long. Friends were in Tahoe and the evacuation was a nightmare, albeit better than it has been for some of the fires.

Spring and fall sound like great times to visit Mariposa and the wildflowers look pretty.

Do you hike at all? Would be awesome if someone went down and up the SL trail with a go pro so we could all get a better sense, once the weather cools, of course. The Google Earth link was not the same as boots on the ground.

Are there other parts of Cali that are affordable to age in? Hope you are able to find a place that is a good fit, with friendly and hospitable neighbors.

by Anonymousreply 598September 8, 2021 3:43 AM

Yes, I do hike r598, though I would label myself as a novice. I hope to go this spring, you are correct that everyone says it is the best time to come. Wildflowers cover the rolling hills, what could be more filled with beauty? I will absolutely go to this trail and report back in day 9 - 10 months.

Visiting is better than living in the country, particularly if one is an elder. The winters sound intense, all the roads that go through Yosemite Park are closed, and tire chains are required for the partial road that is open (or something). I live in Chicago, so you can imagine that moving to a place with more snow isn’t exactly a vertical move. There is no perfect place.

by Anonymousreply 599September 8, 2021 3:54 AM

Be careful out there, R599, maybe just stick to HC trail where the flowers are in spring and a LITTLE BIT of the SL switchbacks.

Part 4 at link

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by Anonymousreply 600September 8, 2021 1:12 PM
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