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Family of Hikers - Part 4

Link to Part 3 below.

Poll to keep us busy until tox results back.

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by Anonymousreply 138September 17, 2021 10:07 PM

Background on SAR in national parks in US

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by Anonymousreply 1September 7, 2021 8:02 PM

A popular theory, to bring newcomers up to speed

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by Anonymousreply 2September 7, 2021 8:03 PM

Timeline with info from LE

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by Anonymousreply 3September 7, 2021 8:05 PM

I still say heat.

by Anonymousreply 4September 7, 2021 8:06 PM

Hard to rule it out, R4

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by Anonymousreply 5September 7, 2021 8:07 PM

This local reporter seems to have good sources. When there are breaking developments he is a good one to check/follow.

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by Anonymousreply 6September 7, 2021 8:29 PM

"Not one clue." How about the fact that no one hikes this trail at least two months of the year, except for this one family with a baby and dog. How can that not be a clue? How about Cause of Death: Cluelessness by Law Enforcement?

by Anonymousreply 7September 7, 2021 9:01 PM

Lol, they do seem to be drama llamas up there in Mariposa.

Heat stroke is often a diagnosis by exclusion, esp when the bodies were decomposing in baking heat for a while. I get erring on the side of caution and all, but they are amping the "mystery" factor a bit too much IMO.

by Anonymousreply 8September 7, 2021 9:57 PM

It was obviously Zombie Vivian Vance who did them in. She had sufficient.

by Anonymousreply 9September 7, 2021 10:05 PM

With the candlestick? Or with a trip wire that triggered a spray of poison only available in Mexico?

by Anonymousreply 10September 7, 2021 10:08 PM

Christ, the OP and almost all posts are missing....

by Anonymousreply 11September 7, 2021 10:29 PM

Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti

by Anonymousreply 12September 7, 2021 10:35 PM

Crazy things do happen in national parks, R12, but what is in it for him? Is he/it the enforcer for the drug cartels or what?

by Anonymousreply 13September 7, 2021 10:48 PM

R11 No they’re not.

by Anonymousreply 14September 7, 2021 10:59 PM

So with the Missing 411 / Bigfoot theories do the people just turn up dead? Or are they never found, thus "missing?" Sorry for my ignorance on the topic. Think the "cases" are linked to national parks and I have seen the term bandied about re: this. Purportedly "details" of such cases are often said to be "covered up." Anyone know more about these sorts of theories and if the facts as we know them would fit? Might was well cast a big net and also keep ourselves entertained as we wait for the next round of "such a MYSTERY" from Mariposa LE.

by Anonymousreply 15September 7, 2021 11:04 PM

This is one article linked as to how "out there" causes can be, not sure we would ever know. Never heard of this incident.

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by Anonymousreply 16September 7, 2021 11:22 PM

Yes they are r11.

by Anonymousreply 17September 7, 2021 11:30 PM

Lol so these threads are being started and operated by practically one person?

by Anonymousreply 18September 7, 2021 11:44 PM

Yes, R18 and if you comment on how boring it's getting the OP gets very agitated and posts Muriel's rules as if us long time posters don't already know.

by Anonymousreply 19September 8, 2021 3:19 AM

I was watching a hiking video on YouTube and the hiker said "It's going to be really hot today" and I thought NO, we want you to live! LOL

by Anonymousreply 20September 8, 2021 1:54 PM

I was just looking at pictures of HCT and the trail is VERY steep and narrow at spots. It would be very risky, imo, to try to walk that trail wearing a baby in a carrier on your back and keep a safe balance. The risk of a broken or sprained ankle also comes to mind when viewing the trail. Add a dog into the mix as well who could accidentally trip a hiker. Mind you, I could only see the HCT, the SLT is rated more difficult, much steeper and of course has a steeper incline. Wtf were they thinking? Nothing about hiking there looks fun, even without a baby and a dog, much less with them. Did those two think it was some kind of achievement to take the most dangerous chances possible? What a pair of fuck-ups.

by Anonymousreply 21September 8, 2021 1:58 PM

And Snapchat, R21. And many do want to become "counselors."

Very sad but if this was the kind of thing they did when she was so small, seems at some point their luck was gonna run out.

The way people think about risk is so odd. I would bet 1M that they had the baby in a carseat on the way to the trail. And they owned a life jacket for the dog when they took him on a boat. Yet, this risk that killed them did not even seem to register. People are known to discount risks more when they occur close to home. They plan more for overnight trips than day hikes, there are more SAR call outs for the latter for that reason.

by Anonymousreply 22September 8, 2021 2:12 PM

To expound R18 I have a feeling that the OP and the troll posting most of the posts in these threads is none other than a LV resident and former Bellagio housekeeper. Just a strong suspicion. I have it on ignore but I wouldn't be surprised if aliens and Bigfoot don't creep into the conversation and in a serious manner instead of jokingly.

by Anonymousreply 23September 8, 2021 3:20 PM

R23 Now that you mention it, the troll's linguistic footprint is reminiscent of Poo Shoes and her OCD.

by Anonymousreply 24September 8, 2021 4:03 PM

She's only posted on these threads and one or two comments on a Kanye thread R24. Hit ignore on her ass and it's eye opening. OCD is right.

by Anonymousreply 25September 8, 2021 4:06 PM

Oh dear, every DL insult is being flung my way, lol.

I've been on DL for a long time, usually it is PR types who work to derail threads and try to suppress posting. No idea what motivates people on this thread, but, don't care. Blocking works fine.

Another dead hiker. Stay safe out there people.

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by Anonymousreply 26September 8, 2021 4:32 PM

For those voting for algae in the poll, do you think that alone finished them off or a combo of that slowed them down plus heat plus no access to an ER? Or, put another way, if exposed to the algae at home, would they still have died in your opinion? Do you think they all died from algae from drinking the water, from being exposed from the dog or that the algae was somehow aerosolized? Why have other animals not have been found dead from it?

by Anonymousreply 27September 8, 2021 4:38 PM

They left us at home and boy was I pissed. Now... well, I can't speak badly about the dead.

by Anonymousreply 28September 8, 2021 4:43 PM

"Pointless bickering" = a standard feature of many if not most DL threads. I am shocked when an argument DOESN'T break out on a thread.

Regarding the cluelessness of these parents, I encountered plenty of that with my friends and their firstborns. It seemed to take a while for them to accept the limitations of their kids. I remember one marathon day I spent with two couples and their respective toddlers. I would have been happy to have quit after doing half the things we wound up doing that day, but no, we had to keep going. In the end it was clear that the kids were beyond wiped out, and one of them registered this by shrieking at the top of her lungs throughout the entire drive home. It was not a short drive.

And while this girl's life wasn't in danger, I was kinda surprised at the parents' blase attitude towards the kid's distress nor any recognition that they had contributed to it. One thing I learned on that trip is parents' lose their hearing quickly. The most bloodcurdling shrieks didn't phase them at all.

by Anonymousreply 29September 8, 2021 5:12 PM

Aliens is a strong number 3. What purpose?

by Anonymousreply 30September 8, 2021 5:15 PM

I'd say because the OP has a history of OCD levels of interest in alien visitations and abductions R30. It used to post long ass threads with post after post of laughably fake videos as though they were absolute proof.

by Anonymousreply 31September 8, 2021 5:19 PM

I don't understand why the OP's posting history (or the posting history of anyone else) really matters. No one is saying anything political here. We just want to know what temperature is too hot to take a walk.

by Anonymousreply 32September 8, 2021 5:26 PM

R32, it's a long time DL troll thing. She was a big Bush supporter too btw.

That reminds me of the old DL classic "major pussyhound, big Bush supporter"

by Anonymousreply 33September 8, 2021 5:30 PM

That sounds almost as miserable as a death march in Devil's Gulch R29.

When my friends spawned I was gobsmacked by how desperate the adults were to get out and socialize on weekends, even if jr. was clearly sick, even puking or if missy had strep throat. WTF would I want to be around that or why shouldn't the kid be in bed?

So much is about the parent's identity and sense of self and not "losing it" instead of understanding life has different phases or hiring a sitter.

To go from adventure tours and the club scene to working from home in the middle of nowhere is a bit of a pendulum swing. Life can have greys and nanny can do some work on the weekend.

Kreycik the dead trail runner used to do risky shit with his kid in tow, his friend oohed and ahhhed. Maybe someone should have called out his risky bs and he might still be alive.

These 2, ordinary was never good enough, had to be at a performative extreme. Behind the scenes was it great? Hope so, since it was so short. Dope house, I would have been hanging at the tiki bar and inviting folks over when it was 105, hiking can wait until it cools off. The mountains and gulches and abandoned mines aren't going anywhere. Live to hike another day.

by Anonymousreply 34September 8, 2021 5:40 PM

Did the autopsy results come out yet?

Looks like they basically murdered their child and their dog, by bringing both on their dumb hike.

by Anonymousreply 35September 8, 2021 5:42 PM

This is a fascinating story (in a terrible way), though I admit I haven't followed it that closely; heat does appear to be the likely culprit, but were the their bodies found together (ie. she might have dropped quickly, but presumably he should've been able to stagger farther)?

by Anonymousreply 36September 8, 2021 6:19 PM

He was wearing the baby in a backpack and may have been carrying an ailing dog, R36, together that would be a significant % of his weight going up a very steep section of trail. He was found seated, she was a little further up the trail, thinner people tend to discharge heat better and she was not wearing a 25 lb pack of baby and carrier.

Horrible way to die esp when they had a lovely in ground pool a few miles away, perfect for frolicking in triple digits.

The mystery is why they went on this hike on this day and why they pressed on and did not turn around earlier on. What could the drivers have been? In the 90s within an hour after presumed start time and climbing, a very furry dog, 12 month old, when you hike on a trail that drops down into a deep canyon you are gonna have to climb back out, no tree cover, warnings about toxic algae in the river so not a great day for swimming for people or pup, just why?

by Anonymousreply 37September 8, 2021 6:36 PM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 38September 9, 2021 3:23 AM

[quote] "You can't drink yourself out of a heat-related injury," explains project leader Joseph Domitrovich, an exercise physiologist at the U.S. Forest Service's National Technology and Development Program. "It's not the magic bullet that people thought."

by Anonymousreply 39September 9, 2021 3:43 AM

It looks like Daily Mail is reporting that their latest guess may be lightning.🤔 Two months later: Still waiting....(Please hold..... ...your call is very important..) After reading these posts since the beginning, I'm still thinking Occam's Razor you know: The usual odd man with gun forced all four of them to hike down the Savage Lundy trail, drink the algae-infested water, then pick up dog, hike back up hill till struck by the lightning bolt. I just don't think Mariposa LE is trying hard enough to see the obvious. So frustrating.

by Anonymousreply 40September 9, 2021 8:55 AM

So MYSTERIOUS, R40.

Guess framing it that way gets lots of clicks. NYT picked up that theory from online chat boards then that was the basis of a few other stories and now this one. None of it sourced by LE.

The theory is not even an overhead lightning strike, there is one about current travelling underground. But no dead wildlife, just them. No wildlife were said to prey on them either, with the high temps they were staying out of the hot sun and off that exposed trail.

Since heat stroke can be a diagnosis of elimination after death, especially where the bodies were outside in high heat for days, there won't be a finding until the tox screens come back.

Shame they did not just splash in their pool and sip juice at their tiki bar.

by Anonymousreply 41September 9, 2021 11:59 AM

The Hart woman, the one who murdered her family in the SUV cliff dive, came back from the dead and took them out, too.

by Anonymousreply 42September 9, 2021 12:09 PM

At this point I think that ginger family in SC is involved in the death of this family

by Anonymousreply 43September 9, 2021 12:14 PM

What were their relationships with their mothers like?

by Anonymousreply 44September 9, 2021 12:15 PM

[quote]I guess stupid people work for Google.

Not anymore.

by Anonymousreply 45September 9, 2021 1:36 PM

Could be, R43, he had to spend that embezzled money on something!

by Anonymousreply 46September 9, 2021 2:01 PM

Hike safely, live to hang with the burners for another year.

Jon sometimes DJ'd at Burning Man. Some of his sets are on Soundcloud. Sad and such a waste to go so young.

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by Anonymousreply 47September 9, 2021 6:53 PM

Fentanyl.

by Anonymousreply 48September 9, 2021 8:22 PM

What is your theory re: ingestion, R48?

by Anonymousreply 49September 9, 2021 8:34 PM

From how dramatic heat stroke seems to be (not downplays it) wouldn't any standard exam show their deformed 'molten' organs? Wouldn't the brain especially have distinct deformation? I'm also not sure what quality the biological remnants will have given how long they were exposed. Doctors of DL, would recovering stomach contents for examination even be possible?

I'd think the sight of a couple, baby, and dog having been cooked to death over the course of days would be pretty incomprehensible, (reason for the dramatic adjectives used by LE).

by Anonymousreply 50September 9, 2021 11:56 PM

^downplaying,

Did a little looking and there's a staggering number of dog core cooling vests available, although longevity is limited, for 'all the gear, and no idear' (bragging about our stupidity now?) Why didn't they have something on the dog? How was that poor animal supposed to 'transcend ' it's physical limitations? We're they also teaching their baby to transcend hers?

I don't think the DM should be publishing articles, giving attention to parents pushing young children/toddlers, etc. to participate in these extreme hikes and climbs, etc.

DCF will get involved unfairly if the parents fit a profile but these idiots are getting acclaim for wreckless endangerment, as long as they're well heeled.

by Anonymousreply 51September 10, 2021 12:15 AM

Maybe Osski's spirit dogs were supposed to help him "transcend?" There are also hiking booties for dogs so they don't burn their paws on trails in 109 degree heat or cut them on rocks. Who knew? Oski did have a boat safety vest. I think they were just very ignorant about the heat.

I suspect their hiking frequency as a group had slowed from "weekly" post baby and they just had not been out in high temps with the dog and baby. Not sure why they did not expect them that day as it had been 105 on Saturday. Kreycik the runner was running 6 min miles and faster when he "cooked himself" as his friend so elegantly put it. I wonder if the baby was sleeping and they moved very quickly at first, underestimating the steepness of SL and leaving less energy in the tank for the climb. Without a garrulous friend who plied them with beer we are left to simply guess.

Sad.

by Anonymousreply 52September 10, 2021 1:38 AM

[quote] "From what search-and-rescue leaders are seeing, people who go missing in the outdoors here [in California] tend to have experience but somehow have gotten in over their heads...In quite a few of those cases, the hikers have gotten into dangerous situations not because they lack experience... but because their deep level of experience led them to feel more comfortable taking risks."

In other SAR articles it has been noted that people take more risks on short day outings that are close to home.

Hope that these articles save at least one life. I have had a heat related emergency but have learned a lot more on these and the Kreycik threads. Nature is great but stay safe out there...

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by Anonymousreply 53September 10, 2021 3:58 AM

r53 Interesting. I wonder if it is a similar phenomenon as to why car accidents tend to happen closer to home. (Can attest!)

by Anonymousreply 54September 10, 2021 4:17 AM

Glad u are ok, R54. Do you think the degree of vigilance might be different?

by Anonymousreply 55September 10, 2021 4:24 AM

I used to do somewhat risky hikes during my part-time employed and not in so great in shape situation years three years ago. I can tell you that hiking in even 90 degree heat takes you down several notches on the cognition factor. I almost stepped on a damn rattle snake during a 5 hour hike with a friend and I didn't even see it! I grew up through many years in the SoCal desert and could a rattlesnake fairly easily. Heat was a huge factor during that hike...it was over 95 degrees and although not a novice hiker, not in the most favorable conditions.

I tend to get overheated pretty quickly because i am very fair, my blood vessels are close to my skin and i admittedly don't drink enough water most days. I have re-thought my hikes, in heat, in CA and decided that it's better off NOT DEAD.

by Anonymousreply 56September 10, 2021 4:26 AM

[R53], slightly off topic (where do these memories lodge and why do they appear nearly 40 years later?), I remember in driver's ed in high school in 1976 we were told that most accidents occur within something like five miles of home on sunny, dry days.

by Anonymousreply 57September 10, 2021 5:57 AM

Interesting, R57, maybe in favorable and familiar conditions we pay less attention?

Live to hike another day, R56.

by Anonymousreply 58September 10, 2021 1:54 PM

The "getting in over their heads" theory probably makes the most sense; and you could kind of see these types of people being like "yeah, having a baby won't change us - we're as hardcore as ever!"

by Anonymousreply 59September 10, 2021 3:30 PM

^ this times a million

by Anonymousreply 60September 10, 2021 3:49 PM

I see our troll is still rubbing one out to this subject, dead in the water as it is. It's one troll replying to every comment.

Hi, 💩!

by Anonymousreply 61September 10, 2021 6:36 PM

Posting on a thread I started is not trolling. You however are one of the most unhinged narcissists I have ever encountered on DL and that is a high bar. That you obsessively post about me and make up lies about my post history is deranged. Why you must shit all over threads and attempt to derail them is a mystery.

As someone who worked in Dem politics for years your attempted smears about my politics were amusing. Your references are dated and you type old. Maybe it is a combo of narc rage and early Alzheimer's. Usually it is the Sunshine Sachs / Spazz troll who goes on these tirades targeting ordinary posters, who knows, maybe you are him?

Blocking now. As have many others, I imagine. Sad that so many seem to have been pushed over the edge in this difficult year. I do hope you have adequate support IRL and that your rage has not isolated you.

Back to the Gerrish-Chung saga. It is sad enough on its own IMHO.

by Anonymousreply 62September 10, 2021 11:16 PM

R60, the dog was 8, how do you imagine they had managed not too give it heat stroke previously? Was the move from the cooler Bay Area just that much hotter but something they did not factor in?

They had a life vest for Oski on a boat, but the heat not registering as a safety issue is so odd. He had to be visibly panting, etc shortly into the hike into Devil's Gulch. I can see poor planning but the sensory input that day, why not turn around?

Or do you think having a baby was a "hold my beer" kinda thing?

by Anonymousreply 63September 11, 2021 1:45 AM

The True Crime Troll talks to himself

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Lol so these threads are being started and operated by practically one person?

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Yes, R18 and if you comment on how boring it's getting the OP gets very agitated and posts Muriel's rules as if us long time posters don't already know.

by Anonymousreply 64September 11, 2021 3:56 AM

Fentanyl, maybe residue in water. Way to kill people.

by Anonymousreply 65September 11, 2021 4:31 AM

I still think they were high on mushrooms or ecstasy. Who would make the decision to do this?

by Anonymousreply 66September 11, 2021 4:36 AM

r50, it's possible that if they were dead relatively early on the first day then there may not be signs.

[quote]The autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short.

In that heat, maybe their bodies could have decomposed enough to make it difficult to determine cause of death.

by Anonymousreply 67September 11, 2021 11:50 AM

That is a good point, R67 and seemed to be an issue with the dead trail runner too.

For the it was the algae crew, why no dead wildlife or livestock?

by Anonymousreply 68September 11, 2021 1:21 PM

…Still waiting for that tox screen….

by Anonymousreply 69September 11, 2021 2:11 PM

Pointless to keep discussing til it's available. It's been rehashed to death.

by Anonymousreply 70September 11, 2021 2:51 PM

Has anybody talked about them going to Burning Man, R70?

by Anonymousreply 71September 11, 2021 2:59 PM

Yes, that has been talked to death too but I know you're jesting.

by Anonymousreply 72September 11, 2021 4:56 PM

Might be weeks yet, R69

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by Anonymousreply 73September 11, 2021 5:30 PM

From r73's article:

[quote]In under 20 minutes of standing by the edge of the millpond, my throat began to burn. Not like strep throat, however. This was different. More like inhaling bear spray, something I have experience with. And within minutes, it was my lungs, they were on fire. I began coughing. Hacking. Spitting. Before long, the headache set in. At times I couldn’t catch my breath — also like bear spray.

From my post R485, last thread:

[quote]Toxic algae can kill upon contact? Really? There would have been evidence of it all over their bodies and in their hair. Gerrish was a hairy fella. So was the dog. There would have been bits of algae clinging.

[quote]Toxic algae can become aerosolized in moving water. [R493]. Inhaled, it can very quickly cause respiratory distress. I had this happen to me some time ago in a beachfront restaurant with open windows. One of our party was an asthmatic. He began having difficulty breathing, and had to use an emergency inhaler. Before long, we all started having trouble breathing. and the restaurant was shut down. We had breathed in toxic algae from the ocean.

It's a real thing, though I don't think it's what happened to this family. Someone jokingly referred to Occam's razor earlier. It was probably heatstroke. I don't find anything about their deaths mysterious.

[quote]For the it was the algae crew, why no dead wildlife or livestock?

Who says there wasn't, r68?

:)

by Anonymousreply 74September 11, 2021 7:36 PM

The sheriff said no dead livestock in a vid that was on here somewhere.

I blame the dopamine seeking in the broiling canyon.

If the algae was in the air seems like it would have impacted the LE who slept on the trail until the bodies could be removed, no? Or maybe it dissipated.

Besides the house someone found with the very sweet pool, they had reportedly bought a house very close to the trail in Jerseydale. Has anyone found that one?

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by Anonymousreply 75September 11, 2021 7:44 PM

[quote]The sheriff said no dead livestock in a vid that was on here somewhere.

What a bizarre thing for the sheriff to say, r75. Why would there be ANY livestock on that Godforsaken trail?

[quote]If the algae was in the air seems like it would have impacted the LE who slept on the trail until the bodies could be removed, no?

I don't know where the bodies were found with regard to the river. IF algae was a factor in their deaths, they could have gotten some distance away.

by Anonymousreply 76September 11, 2021 7:59 PM

There is livestock that drinks from the same river, assume they are kept where there is some grazable vegetation not on SL trail. He was specifically asked if livestock or wildlife had been reported to be killed by the algae, but, nope, only these 4 dead, of whatever cause.

The mix of livestock and recreation in parks seems to have been in place in the Sierras for a long time. Before the drought and frequent fires it was less desert like.

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by Anonymousreply 77September 11, 2021 8:16 PM

What if they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were placed where they were found? Maybe by her ex-husband?

by Anonymousreply 78September 11, 2021 8:34 PM

R78 Relatives don't believe they were murdered.

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by Anonymousreply 79September 11, 2021 9:57 PM

They were not murdered.

by Anonymousreply 80September 11, 2021 9:58 PM

Lol, how would you move a body and then place it seated cross legged on a trail? it gets a bit, well, stiff, after death, no? Not the most bendable and poseable?

She was not reported as having an ex-husband and was only 30ish. He is way older so may have an ex-wife. Neither of those things would have mattered in this instance.

by Anonymousreply 81September 11, 2021 10:28 PM

Perhaps they were dropped from a low-flying helicopter?

by Anonymousreply 82September 11, 2021 11:46 PM

R82 Family of Hikers - Part 4 What if they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were placed where they were found? Maybe by her ex-husband?

Family of Hikers - Part 4 Perhaps they were dropped from a low-flying helicopter?

by Anonymousreply 83September 12, 2021 12:06 AM

I am the Occam’s Razor OG. They *clearly* died of heat. All other hypotheses are absurd. *Clearly*.

It would be nice if states simply begin fining citizens who bring animals and minors into danger. There could be clearly defined parameters, and then it is on the public to understand the law. I have no problem with that — officers and rangers (and search animals) could easily have been killed too. Throw the book at people who refuse to follow the law. Parents need to be accountable, and the only people who will disagree are the same ones still saying COVID isn’t real.

Parents and pet parents — no, you do not have the right to endanger children or pets, they cannot give “informed consent”, just like they can’t give consent to sex. Children and animals are under the supervision of parents/owners, and said parents/owners must be held accountable. Had they lived, they should be charged with endangerment, neglect, kidnapping, animal abuse, animal negligence, and something equivalent to felony assault. I welcome people who make these bad choices to actually serve time.

The state should also file a claim against their estate to cover all costs associated with their case. I’m sure when it’s all said and done, it will cost the state a substantial amount of money. Why should the taxpayers of CA have to foot the bill for this idiocy?

by Anonymousreply 84September 12, 2021 1:26 AM

Why do you think there are so many odd and dramatic theories swirling around them, R84?

With Kreycik, I could see, the same county had a famous case of a man who bounced to LA and started a new life, so it was possible. But this family murdered by a 3rd party on a trail? A lightning strike that travelled underground? Algae that has never killed a human suddenly wiping them all out? Even FA by poison seems unlikely, who would go on such a grueling hike in such high temps first?

Humans and animals are simply not designed to do well in 109 degree heat, particularly without shade and when trudging up a scary steep incline. Water, fitness or gear will not save you, the firefighter study and even the Olympics made that clear. .

I agree that people doing dumb shit should be liable, it being in a national park is no get off scott free scenario. Where I live they routinely pluck people off a mountain who have no supplies, even water, and more than one has been in flip flops. Even the easier trails there involve climbing over rocks. SAR costs money and the lives of others may be endangered.

I really wish the public messaging would become more direct and strong re: heat. Possible death, brain damage, visits from CPS and animal control, etc, may get attention. That 32 year old who just died had lingered from collapsing on a hike in July, she had even had organ transplants, the medical costs were extreme and in the end, all for naught.

by Anonymousreply 85September 12, 2021 1:41 AM

R83 - I'm trying to think outside the box.

by Anonymousreply 86September 12, 2021 1:57 AM

.......

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by Anonymousreply 87September 12, 2021 2:30 AM

R85, the answer to your first question is that we are a completely debased civilization, without any rudimentary critical thinking skills. Our social skills have regressed. People live inside their info bubble, so they are less street wise too. Basically, our movement is not forward but backward.

by Anonymousreply 88September 12, 2021 3:34 AM

Yes r88, we’re rapidly becoming an [italic] Idiocracy [/italic]

by Anonymousreply 89September 12, 2021 4:43 AM

Thanks R87 - good info.

by Anonymousreply 90September 12, 2021 6:52 AM

The 32 year old woman who experienced heat stroke while hiking in July and who then needed multiple organ transplants but who recently died anyway had NO health insurance the family did GFM.

Hiking has such a "healthy" rep, don't try it if you can't afford multiple organ failure and months in ICU kiddies.

She had gone to visit her brother and they went for a hike. Only 32, another sad case.

People are not educated about the risks of heat, there needs to be an organized campaign beginning in spring. Trails should be announced closed in very high heat or high "feels like" indexes. Or like in DV, people should be told to FINISH hike by 9am.. Will save $$$ re: SAR too and will undoubtedly save lives. An announcement should be added to parks and AllTrails that there may not be cell phone coverage to summon SAR.

The weekend warriors can be conditioned to make different choices, or at least their ranks somewhat thinned in a manner other than premature death.

Some are still speculating FA with eye drops but that did not do well in the poll. Even if they were on the trail at 8 and moved quickly it was still going to be too hot for that type of dog with a double coat sometime after 9 and it was a long loop. I think it was likely that the proximity and all of the mines in the area were the draw for him that day, heat did not really factor in. He also seems to like climbs per his AT account, guess the SL trail meant going out doing something he loved?

by Anonymousreply 91September 12, 2021 1:11 PM

Why has this event generated such obsessive interest? Why?

by Anonymousreply 92September 13, 2021 5:00 PM

R92 - for me, it's because the dad was such a beautiful hunk. With a foreskin.

by Anonymousreply 93September 13, 2021 5:24 PM

Thousands of people die each year in India of heat stroke - they deal with temps above 100 all the time. Plus access to clean water is very limited for many people there.

Sadly, India is getting hotter (as is the middle east) and this will only worsen.

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by Anonymousreply 94September 13, 2021 5:24 PM

[quote] Hiking has such a "healthy" rep, don't try it if you can't afford multiple organ failure and months in ICU kiddies.

Well, that's a stretch. Hiking and being physically active is much healthier than being a couch potato. Just exercise some common sense and don't hike steep canyons in triple digit weather.

by Anonymousreply 95September 13, 2021 5:36 PM

More hiking calamities - solo hiker in GNP dies during hike (specific cause of death is TBD, though thankfully no toxic algae was mentioned).

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by Anonymousreply 96September 13, 2021 5:53 PM

{quote] “We’ve got this chunk of gulch here called Devil’s Gulch. People go in there and never come back out,” Mackensen said. “It’s a really, really steep hole choked with brush and rocks and the fire is burning in that."

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by Anonymousreply 97September 14, 2021 3:57 PM

Devil's Gulch sounds like a lovely place for some quality family time.

by Anonymousreply 98September 14, 2021 5:33 PM

Who keeps bumping this dead in the water, boring ass thread? I must have it on ignore but seriously why do these trolls keep talking on threads no one else is posting on.

by Anonymousreply 99September 14, 2021 5:35 PM

With the fire this bad in Devi's Gulch area, no one is going to be hiking it for a while. After 2018 it took years for the trails to be re-opened. The roots burned under the ground creating very deep holes in the trail with volunteers working to restore it making jokes about falling to hell. Firefighters seem to have a lot of respect for it.

[Quote] One particularly precarious area where the fire is burning was named the Devil’s Gulch many years ago by the area’s first explorers, fire information officer Rob Deyerberg said. The terrain is “only a place where the devil would live,” Deyerberg said. “We will not put firefighters down in the worst places. That’s where they build their lines, develop their plans of where can we catch this fire on our terms.”

Very sad, I hope all the firefighters stay safe.

JG and EC were seemingly ignorant of the dangers they faced. I think it was a combo of heat, poor air quality from the fires that impacts ability to exert oneself, being slowed by the dog who may have needed to be carried if exposed to algae and due to heat, and the steepness of the SL trail. Humans have died from algae exposure but it typically takes a few days (vs. dogs who die very quickly) so it would be unusual if that was a huge factor. The reported temps are taken in the shade, temps in direct sun could be higher than the reported 109 with the ground and rocks also radiating heat up. A dog, esp with a double coat, would have a very hard time. They are more exposed to the sun and closer to the ground heat.

Some still think FA. It does seem to be an extreme thing to do but I think it was just ignorance. Hope the baby and dog went quickly and did not suffer.

Hikers should be careful in fire season esp to not get into places that are difficult to exit quickly, esp if they do not have the gear to summon help. A PLB could have saved all their lives, but common sense goes even farther. I suspect that the dog began to have issues partly down HC trail and they rushed to get down to the river, not factoring in how hard the climb out on SL or HC would be. It's ALWAYS better to turn around than to get into a situation you can't get out of.

We even have haze attributed to the CA wildfires on the East Coast now, stay safe Cali.

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by Anonymousreply 100September 15, 2021 12:55 PM

The extreme lifestyle changes cut off most of their prior dopamine sources - clubbing, travel, adventure travel, djing, being very social, etc. Abruptly going to living in the middle of nowhere and working/schooling remotely did not leave many of the prior dopamine levers available. Parenthood is a huge adjustment that some resist. All making risk that much more attractive. Chasing dopamine...

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by Anonymousreply 101September 15, 2021 3:21 PM

After the bodies being out in the heat on the trail for days, anyone know if they would be able to tell if Gerrish had some sort of cardiac event? Stopping to assist him or wait while he rested could have caused Chung to experience heat stroke. Baby and dog were dead before or as a consequence of the adults becoming incapacitated.

His age, being a weekend warrior, the fact that he was packing the baby and may have been carrying the dog, and the steepness of the SL trail could all be factors. Sitting and leaning forward is typical for someone having a hard time with breathing, whether from heart issues, heat overexertion or smoky air. The heat radiating up from the trail could have been quite a bit hotter than the 109 in the shade outside Devil's Gulch, no way was he sitting if staying on his feet was an option.

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by Anonymousreply 102September 15, 2021 3:40 PM

Unrelated but similar, a hiker dies in Utah maneuvering a dangerous trail. He was a white guy also married to an Asian woman. Between him, Gerrish and Kreycik, I firmly stand by my theory that it’s a certain personality type (or maybe disorder?) that marries Asian women and has to prove their physical prowess by engaging in risky behavior masked as being outdoorsy.

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by Anonymousreply 103September 15, 2021 4:27 PM

Nah, there’s just fewer white women available. Where/when I grew up, it was like 95% white, now it’s around 60% Asian and most not born here.

by Anonymousreply 104September 15, 2021 5:59 PM

Eesh, R103. Horrifying way to go.

Your theory does seem to have some merit.

The "masking" is important, if they had a toddler on a motorcycle, they would be arrested. When Kreycik pushed a running stroller down an extremely steep trail with poor footing, other dorks looked on with "admiration?" Hmmm. Dopamine junkies looking for a fix and maybe to compensate...

by Anonymousreply 105September 15, 2021 6:27 PM

Gayface for days, R103.

What is going on with the bride's throat in that photo?

People overestimate their skills and nature is very unforgiving.

by Anonymousreply 106September 15, 2021 6:30 PM

R104 Fewer white women? In Utah?

by Anonymousreply 107September 15, 2021 11:26 PM

Mormons brining in a lot of immigrants, perhaps, R107?

My city, not in UT, has a large Mormon population and I know from a Mormon co-worker that many are international.

by Anonymousreply 108September 16, 2021 1:18 AM

R102 Fantastic article, thanks for posting it. If you guys haven't read it yet, I highly recommend it.

There is a lot of "who knew?" tidbits in there. I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't a combo platter of fuckery that happened to this family. The lightning portion of the article is especially something everyone should be aware of, hikers or not.

Given the low quality/low IQ of the officials handling this, my guess is someone lost the fucking samples for the tox screen and we are never going to get the results.

by Anonymousreply 109September 16, 2021 9:04 AM

That article should be posted at trailheads. I hike and learned things.

I think his age, 45, was also a factor. He likely sat all week and had a very city/club life previously, then did the weekend warrior thing. Kreycik had a lifetime of fitness and was almost a decade younger, but, still "cooked himself" as his friend so elegantly put it. 45 is up there to put so much stress on the heart when you add in the weight of the baby/possibly carried dog, the heat, steepness of trail, smokiness of air, and possibly erm, prior "habits" common to the dj/festival scene that can impact the heart as one gets older and it was a complete clusterfuck.

Best way to live through trail mishaps is to be well informed and cautious and avoid them from the jump. A PLB can save your life or that of someone you run into on the trail. On a trail a 30 min drive from your home, you can die from heat, this summer is sure proof. Those micro climates in CA should be respected. 109 was a nearby town in the shade, in the direct sun it could have been up to 15 degrees hotter. The sun baking down and radiating up from the ground and rocks, the name Devil's Gulch surely seems to fit. At least the trail closure and now fires kept anyone else from sacrificing themselves in that canyon.

Overestimating your own prowess, underestimating the power of Nature and chasing dopamine > you may not live and may put others at risk who depend on you, look for you or try to rescue you. The Tuesday the Gerrish Chungs were airlifted out by helicopter, one of the LE team also succumbed to a heat emergency, it was that hot by 11 am. If you watch news footage, you can see the air shimmer as the heat rises out of the canyon, then imagine the peak heat of afternoon.

For those who chase the thrills/chase the dragon, try dopamine fasting to reset that reward system. That they did something so risky, with a helpless infant and dog in tow was so hard to understand that some speculated they had been forced there at gunpoint. A fast paced life with loads of travel and social stimulation to living isolated in a forest and 20 miles from the nearest smallish town > culture shock and not much dopamine. But loads of other hikers, runners and climbers have died this summer who had not had such extreme lifestyle changes. Learn about heat, learn about brain reward systems (esp re: risk and social media and apps like AllTrails). Stay safe out there everyone.

R109, the officials also seem a bit dramatic, so some surprise shocker end would not be amiss in how this has played out. Shame they did not talk about heat more, as a likely factor to at least SOME degree. This has gotten so much worldwide media attention and that opportunity was missed. Could have saved others by increasing knowledge of heat risks.

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by Anonymousreply 110September 16, 2021 1:13 PM

[quote]The lightning portion of the article is especially something everyone should be aware of, hikers or not.

Even so, statistically only 10% of people struck by lightning are killed so it's not a likely scenario that his happened to their entire family and dog.

by Anonymousreply 111September 16, 2021 3:39 PM

Yes, that article at R102 was very interesting; when you hear about these types of things, it's easy to just write it off as reckless or stupidity, but with a few exceptions all of those fatalities outlined in the article happened to seasoned pros who (appeared to be) well prepared.

Related note: I wonder why national parks are such magnets for suicides. Couldn't you just as easily do that at home?

by Anonymousreply 112September 16, 2021 3:47 PM

[quote]I wonder why national parks are such magnets for suicides. Couldn't you just as easily do that at home?

Seriously? I can only imagine the level of turmoil that would drive someone to suicide but, if given a choice, would you want your own four walls to be the last thing you saw on earth before taking your final breath?

by Anonymousreply 113September 16, 2021 4:19 PM

.....

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by Anonymousreply 114September 16, 2021 7:29 PM

Yes, but if you're so depressed that you intend to kill yourself, I would think the last thing one would want to do is exert the effort to get to a national park. During the times in my life I felt so hopeless, I could barely get out of bed. But that's just me.

by Anonymousreply 115September 16, 2021 10:32 PM

And you know we’re always here for you, right, r115?

We’re always open 24/7/365, hon.

by Anonymousreply 116September 16, 2021 10:33 PM

STILL no toxicology reports? What's the hold-up?

by Anonymousreply 117September 16, 2021 10:43 PM

Hope you are doing ok now, R115.

by Anonymousreply 118September 16, 2021 11:46 PM

Toxicology results don’t just materialize in a couple of weeks. In this case, there are two discrete agencies involved.

They each do the tests they can do in-house and send the rest to outside labs. We don’t know how busy or how much of a backlog those labs have.

We also don’t know where this case falls on each lab’s list of priorities. Some work on strictly on a first-come-first-served basis while others can be persuaded to push certain samples to the front of the line.

On top of that, some things require secondary, confirmatory testing to be performed at yet other labs.

by Anonymousreply 119September 17, 2021 2:01 AM

It doesn't take this long for most toxicology results. And this is a somewhat high-profile, media-covered case to boot. Results are needed ASAP!

by Anonymousreply 120September 17, 2021 2:24 AM

DL'ers should start calling the labs and demanding answers!

by Anonymousreply 121September 17, 2021 3:45 AM

Mostly, we want to find out if the dog died first.

by Anonymousreply 122September 17, 2021 3:46 AM

Toxicology will show that Ellen Chung had traces of pumpkin spice in her system.

by Anonymousreply 123September 17, 2021 3:48 AM

I demand to speak to the toxicology manager!

by Anonymousreply 124September 17, 2021 3:49 AM

i seriously think they took either shrooms or MDMA and went out on the trail to trip and bond with their "spirit dogs."

However, even w/out, it was WAY too hot out there for ANY of them, much less all of them.

by Anonymousreply 125September 17, 2021 3:50 AM

Yes, Karen (r124) - right away. Please hold on a moment while I page him...

by Anonymousreply 126September 17, 2021 3:51 AM

Whatever the toxicology reports reveal, they will be a dud. There’s no way they’re going to feel satisfying after this excruciating build-up. Too much buzz—no way they can deliver.

by Anonymousreply 127September 17, 2021 3:56 AM

The grandparents won't be in a big hurry to drag out the results that will prove their adult children committed negligent homicide. Better to shroud it in "mystery" that deflects blame away from those two boneheads.

by Anonymousreply 128September 17, 2021 4:34 AM

New algae article. It was confirmed that the family did NOT have a portable water filter with them. 1 camelback for all of them?

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by Anonymousreply 129September 17, 2021 6:09 PM

A filter would not eliminate the algae toxins but absent at least a plan to augment what was carried in for the hike in extreme heat, what they have been reported to have brought was extremely insufficient for the duration, heat and intensity of the hike.

Maybe it was a planned FA/suicide? The water they brought would not be enough for 1 adult in those conditions.

by Anonymousreply 130September 17, 2021 6:12 PM

There would be easier ways to kill oneself and one’s family than by dehydration, R130, don’t you think?

by Anonymousreply 131September 17, 2021 6:54 PM

Killing oneself with HEAT STROKE is easy and all too common, R131. Why pack in sufficient and very HEAVY water if one does not plan to survive?

Or could just be dopamine chasing dumbshits, we may never know for sure.

by Anonymousreply 132September 17, 2021 7:04 PM

R130 is the one who keeps posting incessantly and bumping her dead thread. Nothing is too ridiculous for her to throw out there. Has she brought up Bigfoot or UFOs yet? Pedo pizza parlor sex rings? That's it! These hikers stumbled onto a satanic sex ritual.

by Anonymousreply 133September 17, 2021 7:04 PM

Killing oneself INTENTIONALLY by heat stroke? Get outta here.

by Anonymousreply 134September 17, 2021 7:06 PM

Some speculate that this could be a case of FA, in such cases they are often staged to seem "accidental." It has been raised in this thread that suicides occur in national parks. With the extreme heat, 109+, anything that was contemplated to slow them down would likely lead to the death of group members, so it is within the realm of possibility. LE may have more info from tox results, phone, etc that will narrow different possibilities in or out.

To me it seems accidental but the failure to bring adequate water, check the forecast or to TURN AROUND are all mystifying decisions as is bringing a double coated older dog and a 12 month old out in extreme heat and direct sun.

Or they could have overestimated themselves and underestimated Nature, or just had their luck run out that day.

by Anonymousreply 135September 17, 2021 9:43 PM

R129 - god, he was so hot!

by Anonymousreply 136September 17, 2021 9:44 PM

^ heat stroke is all too common

Maybe one day we will get an edit button.

Heat stroke is not the worst way to go, when I had a heat emergency I felt out of it. I felt worse in the subsequent days as I recovered.

by Anonymousreply 137September 17, 2021 9:46 PM

If it was FA, it is more typically the man, but she had a TBI in her late teens, which comes with a high risk of depression, esp after 7 years. Postpartum depression is always a risk, esp when going through so many major life changes all at once, the isolation of cv, the enormous lifestyle change from the city - clubs, festivals and adventure travel - and no kids to extremely rural life and 20 miles from a town of 8,000, etc.

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by Anonymousreply 138September 17, 2021 10:07 PM
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