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Was Lucille Ball really a horrible person?

Someone on the TV Characters You Can't Stand thread mentioned that Lucille Ball was a terrible person.

It's been many years since I read a Lucy bio, so perhaps I am forgetting some key details, but was she really that bad? (Coffee-thrown-at-fight-attendant incidents notwithstanding, of course.) Sure, she was a perfectionist, a control freak, and not naturally funny, but a horrible person?

DL, educate me.

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by Anonymousreply 600August 20, 2021 1:18 PM

She could have been worse, but Gary wouldn't let her

by Anonymousreply 1July 13, 2021 12:57 PM

She was a CUNT!

by Anonymousreply 2July 13, 2021 12:59 PM

On another thread someone mentioned how nice Ball was to Rob Lowe back stage during the 1989 Oscar fiasco. Ricki Lake had a different experience:

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by Anonymousreply 3July 13, 2021 12:59 PM

She was a heavy drinker in her latter years, and seems to have become quite hardened and bitter. Not an evil person, but a sympathetic and warm one? No.

by Anonymousreply 4July 13, 2021 1:06 PM

Geez Lucy was basically on her deathbed at the 1989 oscars, passing just a month later. I would have been an asshole to Ricki Lake, too.

She was not a “terrible person,” just a sad, humorless machine like most comediennes. She never got over her divorce and she never really wanted to run a studio.

by Anonymousreply 5July 13, 2021 1:07 PM

She wasn’t likable. I remember watching E! Mysteries & Scandals/ True Hollywood Story, back in the day, and many of her staff seemed to favor Desi over her. They all described her as cold and controlling. They all agreed that Desi was the funny one (in spite of his drinking and womanizing) and that Lucy often seemed miserable and frigid.

by Anonymousreply 6July 13, 2021 1:13 PM

Wasn’t there some story out there about star crossed lovers Patty Duke and Desi Jr. being kept from each other?

by Anonymousreply 7July 13, 2021 1:21 PM

She viewed herself as a comic actress, not a comedienne and she really wasn't very funny in unscripted settings like talk shows.

She clung to the familiar as time went on and her shows became museum pieces of old schtick. Many of her writers went on to write for more contemporary sitcoms, so clearly they weren't holding her back. She also seemed bitter that she never had a bigger career even though it was obvious that her range was limited and she couldn't sing.

by Anonymousreply 8July 13, 2021 1:27 PM

I watched an interview - years ago - that just said she was a shrewd businesswoman, and not at all a "wacky" character like in her shows. It suggested that she wasn't mean at all, just cold, and Type-A control freak.

by Anonymousreply 9July 13, 2021 1:27 PM

She wasn't that great a business person. Desilu returned to profitability under her watch because they all but quit making pilots and mostly ran as a rental lot. She was not very actively involved when they did develop new shows. Herb Solow doesn't come out and say it but he obviously chose genres where she knew nothing when they finally began developing new shows, shortly before selling the studio.

by Anonymousreply 10July 13, 2021 1:30 PM

She did not like Madeline Kahn, which is a travesty. At the same time, her firing Kahn allowed for Lili von Shtupp.

by Anonymousreply 11July 13, 2021 1:42 PM

She ran with the mob in her youth and was prepared to become a drug mule. She was shot at too.

by Anonymousreply 12July 13, 2021 1:44 PM

R6, she was also a woman, so, ya know, she was seen as a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 13July 13, 2021 1:45 PM

She was a businesswoman. Of course they hated a powerful woman. They also probably believed she was the characters she portrayed. She was a hard worker. She knew her ass would be blamed if something went wrong. She did however know all the crew by name on the set of I Love Lucy and remembered to thank them. She also extended herself to the guy who played Little Ricky decades later when he had kids.

There is that story that she embarrassed the actress that played her daughter on The Lucy Show, making a bunch of dirty jokes to her constantly.

Lucy was an outspoken supporter of gay right. So cut her some slack.

by Anonymousreply 14July 13, 2021 1:48 PM

She got them to stop those Hollywood house yours which is ironic considering that Lucy episode. lol

by Anonymousreply 15July 13, 2021 1:50 PM

Part of a trifecta of gay or gay-friendly TV-movies of the time around 1990 and mid 90s, 'Rock Hudson' and 'Breaking the Surface: The Greg Louganis Story' being the others.

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by Anonymousreply 16July 13, 2021 2:41 PM

I think I read even her mother told her she was a bitch. She responded 'only when I'm at work.' And her mother replied 'But that's when people see you.'

When her daughter Lucie is interviewed and talking about her she always seems ambivalent about her mother sometimes with moments of pain crossing her face.

by Anonymousreply 17July 13, 2021 3:03 PM

"You call *this* HOT???"

by Anonymousreply 18July 13, 2021 3:16 PM

Yeah she was cold but I read she got it from her mother who also was sort of hardened. She & Vivian had a love/hate relationship. I remember reading that on I Love Lucy she had it put in Vivian's contract that she was to be over weight and dressed dowdy so she wouldn't upstage Lucy. During one of their arguments when Lucy was pregnant Vivian was heard to say "I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but Desi already did that"

I think Lucy respected that about Vivian b/c she kept her around.

by Anonymousreply 19July 13, 2021 3:19 PM

I find the Lucy/Vivian friendship fascinating, r19. But I also sense it was somewhat one-sided, with Lucy feeling closer to Viv than Viv ever felt to Lucy

by Anonymousreply 20July 13, 2021 8:55 PM

[quote]She also seemed bitter that she never had a bigger career.

Yeah, that's it.

by Anonymousreply 21July 13, 2021 9:29 PM

No, they both cared for each other a great deal. Watch this 1975 Dinah clip.

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by Anonymousreply 22July 13, 2021 9:30 PM

Well she never raped or murdered anyone, so she was better than many people in the business.

by Anonymousreply 23July 13, 2021 9:36 PM

r22 Vivian had several sisters whom she stayed close with throughout her life. Lucy didn't have an equivalent, and so I can see how Lucy felt closer to Viv than the other way around. Viv's mother was a difficult woman which gave her insight into how to deal with women like Lucy. Interestingly, too, I don't think they were particularly close during the ILL years. Viv's possessive husband at the time discouraged her from fraternizing with Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 24July 13, 2021 9:40 PM

The contract clause about being overweight was a joke that became an urban myth.

Lucy had members of her family around her and on the Desilu payroll. By some reports, Desi never cared for her brother who served as road manager for his band (i.e., keeping an eye on Desi) and wound up on the Desilu board. He later went into real estate and owned several businesses.

by Anonymousreply 25July 13, 2021 10:15 PM

Well R24, I think I'll believe my eyes rather than some anonymous person on a forum who claims to have great insight into their relationship.

But thanks for playing. Johnnie, tell him what he's won.

by Anonymousreply 26July 13, 2021 10:50 PM

Well, there’s this…

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by Anonymousreply 27July 13, 2021 11:28 PM

It's a low bar r23

by Anonymousreply 28July 13, 2021 11:44 PM

Well that's quite a saga Ethel Mae. Troubling yet inspiring.

by Anonymousreply 29July 14, 2021 6:07 AM

[quote] I remember reading that on I Love Lucy she had it put in Vivian's contract that she was to be over weight and dressed dowdy so she wouldn't upstage Lucy.

That’s pretty much a joke they had. Vivian made a surprise appearance on some talk show Lucy was on and read it to her. It’s on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 30July 14, 2021 10:28 AM

Barbara Eden loved Lucy.

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by Anonymousreply 31July 14, 2021 10:32 AM

R25, I guess that was written into the show as Fred became Ricky’s band manager.

by Anonymousreply 32July 14, 2021 10:32 AM

There is a story that claims during the filming of Lucy Calls the President, Vivian -- who was recovering from a stroke and battling cancer, iirc -- asked Lucy which dress she should wear. Lucy replied something along the lines of, "What does it matter? You look like a cow either way!"

by Anonymousreply 33July 14, 2021 10:50 AM

Eden has dined out out on that story (the real one in R31's link) forever. Lucy probably did that with all the showgirls and I'll bet it's one reason Ricky's act became less and less a part of the premise of the show over time.

by Anonymousreply 34July 14, 2021 11:17 AM

She couldn’t have been all that bad. Shanann Watts copied her eyebrow designs.

by Anonymousreply 35July 14, 2021 12:25 PM

I worked at Paramount post Desilu and I always heard Lucy was a pretty complex person. She'd hard a horrible childhood and multiple miscarriages that damaged her. Word was she HATED running the studio, but with Desi's drinking becoming a real problem (making the papers), she had to step in. She just jumped in and did what had to be done after years of letting Desi run everything. She did keep alot of the people he hired along, and he had a real knack for spotting talent.

Lucy was tough to crack, but when you did, she was venomously loyal and generous. She wasn't a funny lady, but I think she had a healthy (and somewhat raunchy) sense of humor offstage.

The one who was really fun was America's favorite sitcom mom, Harriett Nelson. She loved to have fun, have some drinks, and spend time with her gays.

by Anonymousreply 36July 14, 2021 4:16 PM

I would’ve love to have hung out with Harriet she just seemed like a fun person.

One thing about Lucy is that she was loyal, even when she shouldn’t have been. When she was doing Life With Lucy, she brought back all the people still alive that had worked on her earlier shows, even though they weren’t up to it anymore. The cast has said they had to scream their lines because the sound guy, who had been with her since I Love Lucy, was practically deaf. When the show was cancelled it is said she was upset over two things, one she thought we, the public, didn’t love her anymore, and secondly she felt she had failed and all those people were out of a job because she failed.

Lucy, I’m sure could be a bitch, and I don’t begrudge her that. She really had to fight her way to the top. And the joy she brought, and continues to bring to the world makes up for her bitchiness. I will always LOVE Lucy!

by Anonymousreply 37July 14, 2021 4:33 PM

Of course she wasn't a horrible person. People just want her to have been one because they like to hate anyone and especially because if she wasn't anything like Lucy Ricardo, she had to heve been a rotten human being.

She cared for a lot of people. She repeatedly hired the same people throughout her TV career, appreciating their talents and treating them like family. She was fucked over by Desi but she always loved him and was totally blunt about his fuckery but also always said she would always care about him. She's always rumored to have feuded with Vivian Vance but they were lifelong friends.

Lucie Arnaz, her daughter, describes her as "businesslike and responsible" and "nothing AT ALL like Lucy" in this interview. But she says it with an affectionate smirk and she sounds like she cared for her mother. She describes her as running the home like a business and, because she worked so much, racked with guilt and worrying about how the children were being taken care of. Does that sound like a horrible person? Not to me.

Lucille had a traumatic childhood and she was one of those poor people who was just determined as fuck to become a success, and so she did. But life didn't work out exactly how she'd hoped. She was a successful working film actress but never a star until she slummed it on TV. She was obsessively in love with Desi and he was a serial cheater. She wanted kids and couldn't have them until she was over 40. And then, as mentioned above, she happened into being the boss of a major TV studio and she didn't really want to do that. But she was responsible to her commitments and to the people in her life and so she did it.

Lucie Arnaz also talks in interviews about how incredibly talented and disciplined her mother was as an actress. It sounds like she admired her mother while accepting her as not a warm, snuggly mom.

Lucie speaks more warmly of her father's personality and yes, everyone involved with I Love Lucy and Desilu—including Lucille Ball to her dying day—insists that Desi was hilarious, a brilliant TV producer, and a brilliant businessman. Lucille acknowledged all that and she stuck by Desi and opened doors for him. He had a more affable personality and was more innovative, but that doesn't make her a person of poor character; it just means Desi was always overlooked.

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by Anonymousreply 38July 14, 2021 4:37 PM

I'm sure she's an enchantingly sweet woman. and a credit to the entire human race, but does Lucie do anything EXCEPT talk about her parents? Is that her only job?

by Anonymousreply 39July 14, 2021 4:47 PM

I think Lucille and Desi must have been good parents based on how sensible and reasonable their daughter seems. She's not bitter at all; she's empathetic, and both of her parents had major flaws, but she doesn't hold it against them.

Just before the 5:00 mark here, Lucie Arnaz says that she felt closer to her father "but I wasn't allowed to be. I was alwyas being told what a bad person he was." And then she says, "No, that's not fair! Not a bad person, but 'that poor soul.' You know, the poor soul, he can't get his life together."

She calls her mother a control freak and says "she loved us in the only way she knew how."

That's a far cry from Mommie Dearest.

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by Anonymousreply 40July 14, 2021 4:47 PM

[7] In the early seventies I had a friend who moonlighted as desk clerk at a hotel in Chicago suburb. He told that Pattie Duke was staying at that hotel because she was performing in the area. One night Lucy turned up demanding to know PD's room number. Then she went up to her room and read her the riot act .

by Anonymousreply 41July 14, 2021 4:48 PM

R39 People will be interested in people like Lucille Ball and Joan Rivers for many generations. Their children have spent their entire lives in their shadows and grew up to become expert personal historians and publicists for their parents' estates, which are businesses unto themselves. I don't think it's unusual. Lucie and Melissa could work in an office or they can make millions throughout their lives answering people's questions about their stellar parents.

by Anonymousreply 42July 14, 2021 4:50 PM

R36: We've flogged Lucy (justifiably) for a long time---tell us more about Harriet. I remember reading (repeatedly) that she liked a few drinks, but lost steam after Ozzie died. She must have been unhappy with what happened to Rick and his family.

by Anonymousreply 43July 14, 2021 7:26 PM

I think it’s time for Lucita: The Musical about the rise of a simple Hollywood chorus girl clawing her way to the top to become one of the most controlling and manipulative power brokers of TV culminating in her CEO speech on the balcony of the Desilu Studios as she simply takes control as you fade away. Ending with her Vaseline smeared camera lens production in the “You Must Love Me” role of Auntie Mame and lying her head down for the last time on a Stone Pillow.

by Anonymousreply 44July 14, 2021 10:21 PM

Was Harriet still living when Ricky died?

by Anonymousreply 45July 14, 2021 10:57 PM

She lived for a long time after Rick's death.

by Anonymousreply 46July 14, 2021 11:08 PM

Lucille had the best balls.

by Anonymousreply 47July 14, 2021 11:12 PM

The reviews for Mame bordered on the vicious and personal. No way would any of that fly today. They attacked everything about her. I truly think the reception of that film broke her heart. I think it was an interview with Gene Siskel where she broke down over how mean they were to her.

But give the woman credit. She maintained her beauty and her figure. She never went under the knife. She aged very nicely in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 48July 14, 2021 11:21 PM

R43 One thing about Harriet is she was a pretty good actress, but she didn't do too much outside of Ozzie and Harriet. I was surprised, but I really liked her turn in the made for TV disaster movie "Smash Up on Interstate 5." She played an elderly woman who was dying, and she and her husband played by Buddy Ebsen, were trying to get to the beach one last time. It really was a touching story. She must have liked the film because she also was part of the cast of the similar "Death Car on the Freeway."

by Anonymousreply 49July 15, 2021 12:24 AM

She aged horribly--too many cigs and cocktails. Mame was awful---the soft focus photography, her tone deaf singing and it went down hill from there. Too boring to be good camp.

by Anonymousreply 50July 15, 2021 12:24 AM

It's Today is good camp. And Bosom Buddies is just plain good despite those costumes.

by Anonymousreply 51July 15, 2021 1:04 AM

R39 you seemed to have missed all the threads and many thousands of posts about They're Playing Our Song.

by Anonymousreply 52July 15, 2021 1:07 AM

We forget she was huge in the 1950s when it must have been excruciatingly humiliating for your husband’s adulterous behavior to be widely known. This must have played a big part in her bitterness in her later years.

It’s amazing she wasn’t a 100% bitch 24/7 given everything.

by Anonymousreply 53July 15, 2021 1:11 AM

I knew an old Atlanta queen that was a Chesterfield guy and Arrow collar guy. He knew Lucy back in her Diane Belmont , Chesterfield girl days . He had tons of Christmas cards spanning decades from her. He said she was nicer before the Desi Break up hurt her .

by Anonymousreply 54July 15, 2021 1:13 AM

Yes! And while she was only ten years older than me, I outlived the bitch by fifteen years!

by Anonymousreply 55July 15, 2021 1:22 AM

Yes. When she played Mame Dennis.

by Anonymousreply 56July 15, 2021 1:51 AM

That's beautiful, r54

by Anonymousreply 57July 15, 2021 9:26 AM

I always loved this picture. Viv and Desi were friends too; Viv would often come to his defense in his fights with Lucy.

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by Anonymousreply 58July 15, 2021 11:56 AM

Johnny Carson kicked Cher out of his house in 1974 because she was laughing so hard at jokes Lucy was making under her breath about Richard Nixon. (He wouldn't have dared admonish Lucy.) From then on Cher only did the Tonight Show if there was a guest host, usually Joan Rivers.

by Anonymousreply 59July 15, 2021 1:03 PM

R59: Carson rarely went out for drinks or dinner with people and didn't entertain. He was notoriously very private and not even close to Ed McMahon.

by Anonymousreply 60July 15, 2021 1:26 PM

Johnny could be quite cordial with people he disliked having as guests like Bob Hope. He kept the A-listers for his nights. Rivers has talked about the B-listers she had to schedule--she came to understand why this was and used it as an opportunity to showcase people who weren't getting opportunities to appear with Johnny. Unfortunately, if they were hits, she's lose the ability to schedule them to Johnny.

by Anonymousreply 61July 15, 2021 1:30 PM

R60 what is your point? Johnny had people over for Nixon’s inauguration, Cher relayed this story several years ago in a vanity fair profile. Are you suggesting she’s lying?

by Anonymousreply 62July 15, 2021 1:32 PM

R31 I haven’t watched your clip yet, but I read aNarbara Edens REAL book. She said Lucy was very kind to her. Ann Southern on the other hand wanted her fired from the Ann Southern show because she was young a beautiful. Lucy wasn’t at all threatened by Barbara and even coached her on how to “steal” her scenes because it was good for the show.

by Anonymousreply 63July 15, 2021 2:15 PM

R60: In answer to your ultimate question---Yes.

by Anonymousreply 64July 15, 2021 2:16 PM

Desi and Viv were great friends. One of the other Lucy creatives saw her in a local production of Voice of the Turtle and went back, dragging Desi along. They'd been having all kinds of problems casting Ethel, but after the performance, Desi went backstage and offered her the part. Lucy, who didn't know her personally or professionally, didn't want her. Desi. as producer, overruled Lucy's objections and Viv got the part.

As for Harriet Nelson, I love her in Follow the Fleet, one of the best of the Astaire/Rogers films. She and Randolph Scott play the supporting leads and when Harriet first sees him, she looks directly into the camera and starts singing "Get Thee Behind Me, Satan."

by Anonymousreply 65July 15, 2021 5:48 PM

Harriet was a long-time friend of Ginger Rogers.

by Anonymousreply 66July 15, 2021 6:02 PM

r31...that is OBVIOUS bullshit. It contradicts absolutely everything known about Lucy, the show, and the atmosphere on set. The giveaway that it is madeup bullshit is the mention that Lucy entered the room in underwear and a bra and both were dirty. THIS NEVER HAPPENED. There is no way a star like Lucille Ball would meet with ANYONE looking like that. If she did, it would have been media fodder for YEARS.

by Anonymousreply 67July 15, 2021 6:15 PM

It's silly to expect that Lucille was Lucy. Does it matter? She left behind a joyous legacy.

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by Anonymousreply 68July 15, 2021 6:22 PM

It would kill ya to link it, r65?

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by Anonymousreply 69July 15, 2021 6:25 PM

Oh honey R67...you had to read that far to realize it was a work of fiction??

If you get a text from a dancing bear asking for your credit card number, go right ahead.

by Anonymousreply 70July 15, 2021 6:29 PM

Like many people, Lucy was complicated. She didn't seem particularly mean spirited or vicious, but she could be tough when she had to be. Cold and aloof might be the best words to describe her off screen. As others have said, she was very loyal to those she loved and her kids turned out ok and never wrote a Mommie Dearest type book, so she couldn't have been that bad.

Plus, she gave us one of the classic sitcoms of all time that's still funny to this day. I think she'll still be talked about even after most of us are long gone.

by Anonymousreply 71July 15, 2021 6:29 PM

As others have mentioned, Lucy wasn't a horrible person. She became more and more bitter and grouchy as the years went on.

But I think the main issue is that she was incredibly insecure. That started at an early age, so even her monumental success wasn't able to dislodge the belief that she wasn't good enough. Hence her (almost lifelong) need for both alcohol and those goddamn cigarettes, not to mention APPLAUSE.

by Anonymousreply 72July 15, 2021 6:35 PM

Well those Gary stories are starting to make more sense, she needed a real man to keep her in line.

by Anonymousreply 73July 15, 2021 7:28 PM

r73 = Phil Ober

by Anonymousreply 74July 15, 2021 7:31 PM

But Barbara Eden said that she walked around in dirty underwear and filmed lez porn. I take issue with R67. This did happen. I was working on a dinner theater production of 'Night, Mother in Akron with Eden and she said the same thing to me. She also said she found Elizabeth Patterson giving head to William Holden in a closet when she went to hang up her coat. She was wondering why Jess Oppenheimer, William Frawley and Richard Keith were hanging around outside of it.

by Anonymousreply 75July 15, 2021 7:58 PM

Barbara sounds like quite the name dropper.

by Anonymousreply 76July 15, 2021 8:00 PM

'night Mother in Akron was probably the height of her post-Jeannie career until Liz Montgomery died and she had more offers for tv movies.

by Anonymousreply 77July 15, 2021 9:08 PM

Lucy was really mean to Lens Dunham at an IHOP once, long ago.

by Anonymousreply 78July 15, 2021 9:53 PM

Let's get back to Harriet Nelson---she sounds more interesting than Lucy or Eden.

by Anonymousreply 79July 15, 2021 10:11 PM

Harriet was TV's favorite mom until Jane Wyatt and Barbara Billingsley came along. Donna Reed was an also ran and Peggy Wood as Mama was more like a grandmother.

by Anonymousreply 80July 15, 2021 10:17 PM

Danny Thomas loved Harriet Nelson because her bowel movements covered his glass coffee table.

by Anonymousreply 81July 15, 2021 10:21 PM

It was said that the only time Harriet was in the kitchen was on Ozzie & Harriet (one of her sons said that), often on a commercial for Hotpoint (with Mary Tyler Moore the elf) or Quaker Oats . She grew-up on the road except for some time in a convent.

by Anonymousreply 82July 15, 2021 10:29 PM

I knew Lucy's manicurist at Yuki Salon in Sunset Plaza. SHE was a horrible person.

by Anonymousreply 83July 15, 2021 10:31 PM

Don't forget Harriet was a bit of a wild child. Ozzie was her SECOND husband. She was married for three years (separated after one year) to an abusive Comedian Roy Sedley. She met Ozzie while married but separated from her first husband.

According to her wikipedia she started smoking at 13 and she hung out at the Cotton Club.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had smoked her fair share of wacky tobacky.

by Anonymousreply 84July 15, 2021 10:47 PM

Ozzie lead a popular big band leader in the 30s. Harriet was the band's singer. I've heard that she was, like many big band singers, the pass around bottom in the back of the tour bus.

by Anonymousreply 85July 15, 2021 10:56 PM

We have no idea what you are talking about.

by Anonymousreply 86July 15, 2021 10:59 PM

Her son David said when Ricky died she went into a mental decline and always said he was on tour. She never recovered.

by Anonymousreply 87July 15, 2021 11:38 PM

I've told this story before, on DL and elsewhere but it's my first hand experience with Lucy. Shortly before she died, Lucy's dress maker retired and my (female) friend was recommended to her. She had done some fitting with Lucy and I asked if I could meet her. To my surprise, she said yes. I felt that I had a bit of an in since I went to high school with the son of her writer, Madelyn Pugh Martin. He was an asshole, but so what. Anyways, I was there and Lucy rings the intercom and then there she was. Hair still Popsicle Orange and teased wildly. No makeup but large sunglasses and a relatively tasteful pantsuit. The voice was hilarious, so deep and damaged. I just introduced myself as a fan and Lucy couldn't have been more gracious. Although she had only been working with my friend for a brief time, she already liked and trusted her enough to give her her body model. Judging from that model, Lucy still had quite a body but she looked very slender in person. At any rate, during a lull in the fitting, Lucy sat down next to me and I pulled out a copy of the old Hollywood Kids magazine which I just scored from the Beverly Center and I heard Lucy loved gossip. I showed it to her and she began reading the infamous Page 2 which had the blind items. Lucy started reading it and began roaring with laughter. She asked me who one item was about (Bruce Willis) and said she believed it. After the fitting, Lucy asked me if I knew how to play backgammon. I said no and she said she was going to teach me. She gave me her phone number and told me to call her at the end of the week. Two days after that, Lucy went into the hospital and never came out. My opinion on her. She was a tough old broad who saw and experienced a lot but despite being cranky, she also liked to have a good time. I still have her handwritten note with her phone number on it.

by Anonymousreply 88July 15, 2021 11:40 PM

I wonder if Lucy and Harriet ever hung out, they were at RKO at the same time and they both appeared in Follow the Fleet.

by Anonymousreply 89July 16, 2021 12:42 AM

She wouldn't qualify as a horrible person, but she was not a pleasure to be around.

by Anonymousreply 90July 16, 2021 1:11 AM

R85: Ozzie ran the the most strait-laced band around. Early curfew, no carousing. They were an odd couple.

by Anonymousreply 91July 16, 2021 2:03 AM

No doubt both Ozzie and Harriet were clueless about the fact that Ricky was bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 92July 16, 2021 2:49 AM

EVERYBODY is clueless about the fact that Ricky was bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 93July 16, 2021 2:51 AM

R63: "I haven’t watched your clip yet, but I read aNarbara Edens REAL book."

by Anonymousreply 94July 16, 2021 2:51 AM

I adore Barboura Morris.

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by Anonymousreply 95July 16, 2021 2:58 AM

She never could get the smell of ropa vieja out of her cunt. Thank God no one expected me ever to go near it.

by Anonymousreply 96July 16, 2021 3:13 AM

R93 I wish I had been able to sample his bisexualness.

by Anonymousreply 97July 16, 2021 4:32 AM

Rick was bi?!? With whom, anybody famous?

by Anonymousreply 98July 16, 2021 11:01 AM

Can we please get back to the original topic!

by Anonymousreply 99July 16, 2021 11:03 AM

No one gets to be that successful without being an asshole once in a while.

by Anonymousreply 100July 16, 2021 12:52 PM

Mary Martin

by Anonymousreply 101July 16, 2021 1:29 PM

I proudly shit in her dressing room without flushing. Remember, I have noticeable trouble digesting raw vegetables.

by Anonymousreply 102July 16, 2021 1:44 PM

Lucy went through a lot of bad shit in her life. Of course she would've been bitter about things.

by Anonymousreply 103July 16, 2021 3:38 PM

r100 = Ellen

by Anonymousreply 104July 16, 2021 3:46 PM

R36 here. I dealt with Harriet a few times profesionally and we had some mutual friends in Laguna. I think she was quite the party girl in her youth, and I'd say she continued being out and about until right after Ricky died in 1985. I think her "reclusiveness" after Ozzie died was more professional. They were stereotyped as an act and without him, and I think the powers that be felt she didn't have much to offer.

While I can't say if she 100% remembered who I was, she always greeted me and everyone else like an old friend. In public, she was "Harriet Nelson" but in private she liked to gossip about Hollywood, make sex jokes, and smoke like a chimney. By the time I met her, she was just a fun old lady who didn't give a shit, and was enjoying her golden years living at the beach with a cocktail in her hand.

by Anonymousreply 105July 16, 2021 4:06 PM

R105 I'm glad she was enjoying life, at least until Rick's death.

by Anonymousreply 106July 16, 2021 4:15 PM

The documentary made by her daughter is fantastic and surprisingly moving. I think it’s called Lucy and Desi’s Home Movies.

She strikes me as someone who scary as hell in person because she was so no-nonsense, but not a bad person.

Richard Burton hated her, but his description in his diaries speaks more to her impatience with Liz and Dick’s louche work habits than her nastiness.

by Anonymousreply 107July 16, 2021 4:17 PM

[quote] Richard Burton hated her, but his description in his diaries speaks more to her impatience with Liz and Dick’s louche work habits than her nastiness.

I think that is what many equate with nastiness. They expected her to be ditzy Lucy but she was professional Lucille. She wanted the guests to know their lines and hit their marks.

by Anonymousreply 108July 16, 2021 4:22 PM

I believe Jack Benny was doing one of the Lucy show and she was so fanatical, dictatorial and anal about getting everything right Benny said, 'Will somebody tell her she's got the job!'

by Anonymousreply 109July 16, 2021 4:35 PM

“On the set of The Lucy Show she could be a holy terror,” said one of the technicians who watched Lucy in action. She summarily fired a New York Method actor who mumbled his lines; intimidated directors and cameramen; and sought confrontations, even when the star was as big as she was. When she gave Danny Kaye instructions on how to do humor, he snapped, “Just who the hell do you think you are?” Lucy shot back, “You’re full of shit, that’s who I am.” She was not smiling. Joan Blondell, who had known Lucy since their starlet days in the 1930s, had become a first-class film and stage comedienne in middle age. Lucy booked her on the show, then expressed dissatisfaction with the way Blondell read her lines. After one take, her friend Herb Kenwith reported, the director yelled “Cut” and “Lucille pulled an imaginary chain . . . as if flushing an old-fashioned toilet.” Blondell turned away but caught the tailend of the gesture. “ ‘What does that mean,’ she demanded. Lucille said, ‘It means that stunk!’ Joan looked her right in the eye and said, ‘Fuck you, Lucille Ball!’ and left. The studio audience was stunned. You didn’t hear words like that in those days.” Kaye and Lucy were to make up their differences in later years. Blondell never came back.

by Anonymousreply 110July 16, 2021 4:48 PM

I Love Lucy Bloopers and Rare Footage with Jack Benny

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by Anonymousreply 111July 16, 2021 4:54 PM

Aren't all women horrible people? Women who get angry, stand up for themselves, yell, have demands. Why won't they ever learn and just bow to the dominant male culture? Why???? The least they could do is stay young or quit working at 40 or act like drag queens (Cher, Bette, Liza). How dare they be human beings?

by Anonymousreply 112July 16, 2021 5:01 PM

[quote] She summarily fired a New York Method actor who mumbled his lines;

That really makes me love her.

by Anonymousreply 113July 16, 2021 5:03 PM

brunette

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by Anonymousreply 114July 16, 2021 5:09 PM

^ Wow, I now see that going "red" was a smart move. She looks terrible with dark hair

by Anonymousreply 115July 16, 2021 5:16 PM

[quote]She aged very nicely in Hollywood.

I wouldn't say she aged particularly well, the booze and cigarettes took their toll, but it wasn't as pronounced as it was with others.

Bette Davis's looks, for example, were ravaged by drinking and smoking. She didn't age well at all.

by Anonymousreply 116July 16, 2021 5:22 PM

I googled "John Dodds gay" just to find out the truth about Viv's last husband, and I found an all-Lucy and Lucy-related site that HAS to be run by someone from Datalounge.

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by Anonymousreply 117July 16, 2021 5:25 PM

R112 thinks that her misaligned and misdirected rhetorical technique works here. The point here is not your feigned "support" for the right of women the world over to be "humans," despite the cruelty of gay men.

Any real issues these business women in entertainment ever had were with their own egos, vulnerabilities and the pressures of dealing in a field ruled by straight-male power. If we're talking about women's personalities, foibles and occasional rottenness, it has nothing to do with your phoniness, laziness, shallowness, selfishness, ugliness and obesity.

Got it, cunt? Now go somewhere else and get fucked by a straight man who can't stand you and finds your pussy dry and cavernous.

And let him call you "Bat Girl" like the rest of your one-nighters have.

by Anonymousreply 118July 16, 2021 5:46 PM
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by Anonymousreply 119July 16, 2021 5:48 PM

“The worst thing you can do is suppress pain,” observed Lucie, “and she made a career out of suppressing all her pain.” Lately the miseries of childhood had been supplanted by the very public divorce and the assumption of responsibility Lucy had never wanted. To be famous, yes, she had always desired that, and to be respected. But to be responsible? That was something else, something unplanned and intimidating. But if that was the hand she had been dealt, so be it. She would intimidate back. Small wonder that director John Frankenheimer seriously considered Lucy for the part of Laurence Harvey’s lethal, oedipal mother in the thriller The Manchurian Candidate, before awarding it to Angela Lansbury.

On the set, a different person began to show up. Through the I Love Lucy years, the star had been difficult and querulous, particularly at first readings, seeking the right tempo and takes. But the persona she displayed at the filming of The Lucy Show was quite unlike what had gone before.

Vivian Vance, whom Lucy regarded as a reliable script doctor as well as a friend, was not immune to harsh critiques from the boss. For “Lucy and Viv Play Softball,” the two actresses were to choose up sides with a bat. Lucy kept throwing the bat in a way that made it impossible for her partner to catch it cleanly. “I could catch it right if you threw it right,” was the very reasonable complaint. Lucy walked off the set and Vivian started to cry. When Lucy returned she simply said, “Now, where were we?” refusing to recognize that anything untoward had taken place.

Others came under fire and were not let off so easily. Lucy made a point of challenging authority figures who were working for her. Candy Moore thought it was “unprofessional for her to yell at people in front of others—particularly the director Jack Donohue. It undermined his authority.” But that was Lucy’s aim. After the first day on any episode, everyone knew who was in charge.

The only actor immune from Lucy’s barbs was Gale Gordon, her old companion from radio days, when he had played innumerable haughty, pompous bosses. Gordon was written into The Lucy Show during its second season, in order to supply Lucy with the foil she lacked in the first thirty-three episodes. For the next five seasons he played Theodore J. Mooney, manager of the local bank and trustee of Lucy’s money. In a better part, or with different direction, Gordon might have given the show some depth and satiric bite. The skilled farceur had learned his trade from the cradle onward, watching his father, an American vaudeville quick-change artist, and his mother, a British actress. Born with a cleft palate, Gordon had worked on his diction until it was perfect for radio, and on his appearance until it was ideal for television. Lucy’s affection and regard for him were absolute, so much so that she failed to see the shortcomings of the Mooney character—or of the character actor who portrayed him.

In the first place, Gordon was never encouraged to vary his interpretation. “When you are at full tilt right from the beginning,” noted Maury Thompson, “you have nowhere to build to—nowhere to go.” When Gordon consulted Thompson about his acting, the camera coordinator leveled with him. “He said, ‘You know, other people have told me that. But I can’t seem to help myself. I’ll try to temper it.’ But he couldn’t.” In the second place, through no fault of his own Gordon was incapable of filling the vacuum left when Desi departed. “A husband is a funny authority figure,” Bob Schiller pointed out. “A banker, although certainly an authority figure, doesn’t have any of the warmth, humor, or sex of a husband.”

by Anonymousreply 120July 16, 2021 6:38 PM

[quote]Lucy walked off the set and Vivian started to cry.

Mary!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 121July 16, 2021 6:44 PM

[quote] “A husband is a funny authority figure,” Bob Schiller pointed out. “A banker, although certainly an authority figure, doesn’t have any of the warmth, humor, or sex of a husband.”

I think Lucy came to understand that. The relationship of the characters on The Lucy Show did improve once they made him her boss, because it was a relationship that made sense. He wasn't her banker/trustee but her boss. And, then in Here's Lucy, he was her boss/brother-in-law.

Gale was who Lucy wanted for Fred on I Love Lucy, along with Bea Benaderet as Ethel. Because they had played the older couple on her radio show My Favorite Husband. However, by the time I Love Lucy started Bea was contracted to do Burns and Allen and Gale to do Our Miss. Brooks.

It isn't usual for a comedian to develop one iconic double act type of relationship. But it is unusual to develop two iconic ones like Lucy did first with Viv and then with Gale. And, a lessor one with the delightful Mary Jane Croft, who also did great work with Harriet and Ozzie.

by Anonymousreply 122July 16, 2021 6:54 PM

Barbara Walter’s “An Interview of a Lifetime” with Lucy is really telling. You can see what love and respect Lucy still had for Desi - even if she didn’t want to admit it. Desi was clearly the love of Lucy’s life. No wonder Lucy was so bitter - they built something amazing together - if not for his cheating, she would have put up with his other demons and they probably always would have stayed together.

(Bonus points to Gary for sitting right there next to Lucy hearing her talk about her first marriage with Barbara. When Barbara was like “this man is sweet,” and Lucy responds, “the other man was sweet too!,” you know Gary was jealous. I’m surprised he approved of the interview.)

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by Anonymousreply 123July 16, 2021 7:00 PM

R123 To me it has to be hard on the subsequent spouse when they are married to one half of such an iconic divorced duo. Because in the minds of the public, the divorced couple will always be intertwined.

It is like in Country music, George Jones and Tammy Wynette divorced and married other people. George married a good woman that helped him to overcome his demons, just as it is said Desi's second wife tamed him. Thankfully, Lucy married a good man as well. Tammy, however, married a man that literally worked her to death. But, the fact is that no matter how long or loving those marriages might have been, in the minds of the public it was Lucy & Desi and George & Tammy. I would never want to be the spouse who married a person in those circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 124July 16, 2021 7:10 PM

Gary was a convenient man, r124.

by Anonymousreply 125July 16, 2021 7:14 PM

I can relate, r124.

by Anonymousreply 126July 16, 2021 7:15 PM

I remember reading many years ago in a magazine or column, maybe Liz Smith, that told the story of Lucy coming home and being told by her maid that a woman claiming to be her friend was waiting for he in her living room. Lucy walked in and bellowed to the fat woman, "Who the hell are you and why are you in my house?"

The guest laughed and said, "Don't you recognize me, Lucy? It's me, Yvonne DeCarlo!"

Lucy was shocked and replied, "Yvonne?? What the hell happened to you?"

by Anonymousreply 127July 16, 2021 7:40 PM

This is a fascinating 15 minute clip to watch. I think its easy to say and ask was Lucille a horrible person? The real question should be if she was how did she last so long? And why were so many so loyal for so long? If she was a man no one would have cared. We all aren't one thing. I think life did something to do her like it does to all of us. I think Desi hurt her terribly but she found a way to be friends with him and forgive him.

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by Anonymousreply 128July 16, 2021 7:45 PM

Gary was an opportunist in an ill-fitting toupee and wielding a big dick. He didn't care about Lucy's feelings for Desi since he didn't love her, just her money and power.

After Lucy died, Gary quickly remarried a younger chickie and lived a happy life in Palm Springs. He made a memorable cameo in Postcards from the Edge, playing Meryl Streep character's agent.

"I don't have a generation."

"Well you better get one."

by Anonymousreply 129July 16, 2021 7:49 PM

Lucy died in 89 and Gary remarried in 96. I would hardly call that quickly remarried. Yeah she looks like a real younger chickie.

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by Anonymousreply 130July 16, 2021 8:00 PM

Gary didn't seem to do much of anything except play golf.

by Anonymousreply 131July 16, 2021 8:22 PM

Zombie Gary Morton for President!

by Anonymousreply 132July 16, 2021 8:44 PM

LOL r132!

by Anonymousreply 133July 16, 2021 9:19 PM

aNarbara Edens and Lens Dunham are the Vera and Mame of our time. Mark my word.

by Anonymousreply 134July 16, 2021 9:52 PM

I can't believe that Barbara Eden story. Lucille Ball was old-school Hollywood and would never meet anyone in her underwear. She was always professionally dressed no matter what, like stars of her era tended to be.

by Anonymousreply 135July 16, 2021 9:59 PM

With aNamaria Alberghetti as Gooch, r134!

by Anonymousreply 136July 16, 2021 10:33 PM

Gary was scary brilliant as the Milton Berle character in Lenny.

by Anonymousreply 137July 16, 2021 11:01 PM

Is Gary still alive?

by Anonymousreply 138July 17, 2021 4:18 AM

He died in '99.

by Anonymousreply 139July 17, 2021 4:49 AM

From another Lucy thread:

[quote]Gary was the epitome of old men in the Seventies who wore horrible polyester pants and looked like they had just finished smelling up the bathroom something awful.

by Anonymousreply 140July 17, 2021 4:54 AM

That is so disgusting but dead on.

by Anonymousreply 141July 17, 2021 5:17 AM

Speaking of Lucille, Lucie Arnaz turns 70 today.

by Anonymousreply 142July 17, 2021 11:30 AM

Lol r140!

by Anonymousreply 143July 17, 2021 2:13 PM

Shocked that no one has recounted the stories of Joan Crawford's appearance on Here's Lucy!

by Anonymousreply 144July 17, 2021 3:01 PM

How great to read a Lucy thread that isn't all about bashing the woman.

Can someone please find and post a clip of Lucille Ball talking about her early days as a starlet on the RKO lot as well as shooting Stage Door and talking about young Kate Hepburn and Ginger Rogers' mother (who tutored Lucy) from a great RKO documentary? She looks wonderful there, none of her latter day harshness.

by Anonymousreply 145July 17, 2021 3:05 PM

Easy-peasy, r145.

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by Anonymousreply 146July 17, 2021 3:10 PM

I just LOVE Lucy in those clips from the RKO documentary! And Ginger and Kate, as well. Thanks for posting, r146.

by Anonymousreply 147July 17, 2021 3:18 PM

and...

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by Anonymousreply 148July 17, 2021 3:25 PM

The filming of STAGE DOOR in 1937 had to be shut down for a day when the young actresses, among them Katharine Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Eve Arden, Ann Miller and Lucille Ball, all heard the devastating news of the shocking and untimely death of MGM star Jean Harlow.

Also: Hepburn had it in her RKO contract that shooting on her films would be paused for a 1/2 hour for a daily late afternoon tea break. While they appreciated the break, some of the ladies on STAGE DOOR did not drink the tea.

We should discuss this film more often on DL.

by Anonymousreply 149July 17, 2021 5:18 PM

Annie: "Poor Jean Harlow (tapa-tapa-tapa), poor Jean Harlow (tapa-tapa-tapa)..."

by Anonymousreply 150July 17, 2021 5:23 PM

Gary was a rock to Lucy. She even admits in the Barbara Walters interview that Gary was the one who was really looking out and taking care of her the whole time, not vice versa.

L:ucy wanted stability when she married Gary. So much of the marriage to Desi had been them traveling, or working apart. By the time of ILL, they had two small children, but Lucy was the one staying home while Desi travelled, drank, gambled and slept around.

Gary was the complete opposite. He played golf while Lucy worked. At night they ate together. He was a devoted stepparent to her children. He did the occasional foray into showbiz, but he was perfectly content at be the husband to Lucy. I don't think that's loafing at all. And that's what Lucy needed, and most of all, desired after a very public, tumultuous marriage.

Most of all Lucy appreciated him and loved him deeply. There was the story of one of Lucy's friends coming over for dinner and seeing a full lobster being put on the table. "That's for Gary!" Lucy announced to the woman. "We're having hamburgers!"

by Anonymousreply 151July 17, 2021 5:40 PM

Gary was introduced to Lucy by her Broadway WILDCAT costar Paula Stewart and her husband comedian Jack Carter, who knew Gary was what Lucy needed.

by Anonymousreply 152July 17, 2021 5:44 PM

Actually, r151, that was Jane Connell when she went to meet Lucy. Lucy noting the lobster said "Oh that's for Gary, we're having leftovers."

by Anonymousreply 153July 17, 2021 5:44 PM

R151 that was my feeling too. I don’t think they had the raw passion she and Desi shared, but in their remarriages they both found what they needed that they couldn’t give to one another.

by Anonymousreply 154July 17, 2021 5:45 PM

Paula Stewart...

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by Anonymousreply 155July 17, 2021 5:46 PM

Hard to maintain raw passion for a guy in an awful toupee.

by Anonymousreply 156July 17, 2021 5:47 PM

Didn't Vivian dislike Gary? I think I read that on DL.

by Anonymousreply 157July 17, 2021 5:48 PM

Lucy loved Gary but she wasn't in love with him.

by Anonymousreply 158July 17, 2021 5:48 PM

Lucy with the love of her life.

No not Gary, Philip Morris.

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by Anonymousreply 159July 17, 2021 5:54 PM

The kid who played Ernie on My Three Sons had nothing but good things to say about her in his book. He appeared in an episode of The Lucy Show and said Vivian was not very pleasant to him . But he adored Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 160July 17, 2021 6:03 PM

R160 well that is understandable because I’ve also read that when her old nemesis Bill Frawley was on My Three Sons he would get the boys to go to the Lucy Show set and play pranks on Viv. I’m sure she counted everyone on that set as “his people.”

by Anonymousreply 161July 17, 2021 6:08 PM

Viv sounds like a DLer r160

by Anonymousreply 162July 17, 2021 6:09 PM

I’m sure she was tough as nails, with huge balls, pun intended. It’s why she did so well in show business.

by Anonymousreply 163July 17, 2021 6:29 PM

R105, so Granny Nelson was an addict. That explains both Ricky and his daughter Tracy's addictions...

by Anonymousreply 164July 17, 2021 6:50 PM

Didn't even Lucy know she was known as Lucille Balls.

by Anonymousreply 165July 17, 2021 6:51 PM

Imagine what it was like to be a woman in that business in that era. You had to be a tough bitch to survive. Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Marlene Dietrich and Barbara Stanwyck were the same.

by Anonymousreply 166July 17, 2021 6:52 PM

R88 The Hollywood Kids! I absolutely loved that little publication. Whatever happened to those guys? There must be a thread on them.

by Anonymousreply 167July 17, 2021 6:59 PM

As I have posted many times in the past my partner's parents were close friends with Gary and Lucy. His dad played golf once a week with Gary and they socialized with both of them all the time at the country club they were members of of. Lucy used to play board games with my partner. Lucy was not unlike others of their set. Rich and successful people are usually not easy to get along with. They were used to seeing their friends on TV and in the movies. His sister was friends with Lucy's daughter, they all visited the Mortons at their home in Beverly Hills, which was close to theirs. I have posted other stories they and my partner told me about Lucy and Gary. I wish I could have met Lucy but she was dead before I met my partner in 1990.

by Anonymousreply 168July 17, 2021 7:26 PM

So what were his impressions of Lucy? I don't recall reading your posts.

by Anonymousreply 169July 17, 2021 7:36 PM

She knew, r165...

*

Burnett recalled that Ball “told them in no uncertain terms what was wrong with that script and how to fix it…Then she took another drink and said, ‘And, kid, that’s when they put the ‘s’ on the end of my last name.’”

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by Anonymousreply 170July 17, 2021 8:24 PM

Aren't there stories of Lucy, late in life, and rather quietly, teaching some kind of comedy workshop at a acting school in LA? I remember some semi-famous comedian, who I think sadly died of AIDS, writing an article about it, after the fact.

But Lucy was always very much into mentoring the young.

As she talked about in that RKO documentary, she was a part of a small repertory company of young RKO actors, taken under the wing of Lela Rogers (Ginger's mom), who would appear in plays on the lot that directors and producers would be invited to see.

When Lucy and Desi created Desilu on the old RKO lots, she formed a rep company of young performers and created workshops for them to learn comedy and musical skills and she would then invite Hollywood execs to come see them, in the hope of developing new talent to star in TV series Desilu might produce. Robert (TCM) Osborne was a part of that troupe, though I think she eventually told him his talent lay in writing, not in performing.

by Anonymousreply 171July 17, 2021 9:15 PM

[quote]But Lucy was always very much into mentoring the young.

As if!

by Anonymousreply 172July 17, 2021 9:20 PM

The late Taylor Negron is who you're thinking of r171. It's a rather touching story.....

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by Anonymousreply 173July 17, 2021 9:22 PM

A big part of Lucy's bitterness I think also was due to the fact that to her being a star meant being a movie star which is something she could never be. This led to the catastrophe of Mame one last ditch effort which was one of the worst things she did in her life.

Robert Osborne though he had enormous respect and affection for her avoided her after the premiere because what could he say?

by Anonymousreply 174July 17, 2021 9:27 PM

Keith leads a rousing...

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by Anonymousreply 175July 17, 2021 9:34 PM

r173, thanks so much for finding and posting that article. It's even better than I remembered and should be read by everyone on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 176July 17, 2021 9:36 PM

r174 but surely she made up for it with The Stone Pillow ...

by Anonymousreply 177July 17, 2021 9:36 PM

I wasn't around back then, but Mame must've looked absolutely antiquated when it came out in 1974. It was the era of Watergate, huge civil unrest, hard rock music and gritty movies like The Godfather and Death Wish. Mame seemed almost prehistoric in that time period.

by Anonymousreply 178July 17, 2021 9:45 PM

She never got over her disappointment with Desi and was permanently crabby.

by Anonymousreply 179July 17, 2021 9:58 PM

Lela Rogers (not Lila Rodgers) did not create the Hollywood Studio Club.

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by Anonymousreply 180July 17, 2021 10:08 PM

Lela Rogers was a pretty awful person too, apparently.

See: "The Hard Way" controversy.

by Anonymousreply 181July 17, 2021 10:15 PM

Lela Rogers bearded for J. Edgar Hoover. (So did her daughter Ginger)

by Anonymousreply 182July 17, 2021 10:27 PM

Most people are not entirely good nor entirely bad. It's lazy and dishonest to categorize people (especially those we've never met) as horrible, but it sure does make us feel better about ourselves, so there's that...

by Anonymousreply 183July 17, 2021 10:28 PM

r183 is fun at parties

by Anonymousreply 184July 17, 2021 10:34 PM

“Horrible people” are more interesting. Sorry, its true.

by Anonymousreply 185July 17, 2021 10:36 PM

Yeah, because demonizing people has done so much for our current cultural climate.

by Anonymousreply 186July 17, 2021 10:38 PM

A moment for the departed Jack Carter, who introduced Lucy to Gary. Carter went to grade school with my mother, who told the story of him as a class clown who tied her braids together and dipped them in inkwells. This was only a humorous story because he became famous. Otherwise it would be about bullying and ruining a kid's dress.

by Anonymousreply 187July 17, 2021 10:48 PM

The Stone Pillow was a fucking TV movie!!! The woman couldn't get above slumming on television!

by Anonymousreply 188July 17, 2021 10:54 PM

Apropos of nothing, Phil Ober wasn't bad looking in younger days.

I always felt as if Lucy's animosity toward him seeped out in the Dore Schary episode.

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by Anonymousreply 189July 17, 2021 11:17 PM

I always wondered why Gary didn't advise against The Stone Pillow. He shouldn't have allowed it.

by Anonymousreply 190July 17, 2021 11:27 PM

[quote]I wasn't around back then, but Mame must've looked absolutely antiquated when it came out in 1974. It was the era of Watergate, huge civil unrest, hard rock music and gritty movies like The Godfather and Death Wish. Mame seemed almost prehistoric in that time period.

Not really. They were still attempting to make old fashioned movie musicals up until about 1977 with A Little Night Music.

Mame came out in the period of 1776, Funny Lady, Lucky Lady, Lost Horizon, At Long Last Love, A Little Night Music and Man of La Mancha.

It's not a great movie, but it did get some good notices. I believe the NY Times was one. It was also nominated for two Golden Globes. Including a Best Actress nomination for Ball.

There were other musicals on that list above that received much worse public receptions.

by Anonymousreply 191July 17, 2021 11:29 PM

Was Stone Pillow Lucy’s Harry and Tonto?

by Anonymousreply 192July 17, 2021 11:36 PM

The title of Time magazine's review was...MAIMED. Lucky Lady wasn't a musical, r191. The problem with the other movie musicals you mention was that (with the exception of 1776) they were really crappy movies. In 1776's case, it's a piece that just works better on stage.

by Anonymousreply 193July 17, 2021 11:40 PM

I thought the NY Times said something like Mame Dennis keeps coming back like Dracula.

by Anonymousreply 194July 18, 2021 1:34 AM

"Lucy had requested a pack of Pall Mall non-filtered cigarettes, a bag of Chocolate Pogen Cookies, and a bottle of Scotch."

And that's why she looked like hell -- and ironically why she couldn't have any cosmetic surgery.

by Anonymousreply 195July 18, 2021 1:59 AM

"The packed class was made up of people of all ages and both genders. "

by Anonymousreply 196July 18, 2021 2:02 AM

R128 is truly pukeworthy, a MARY! with Regan's pea soup running out of her own gob.

by Anonymousreply 197July 18, 2021 2:08 AM

r195 lots of those boozy, chain-smoking old broads got work done. Bette Davis had a full facelift around that same time.

by Anonymousreply 198July 18, 2021 2:23 AM

[quote]Eden has dined out out on that story (the real one in [R31]'s link) forever.

Whoever wrote all that smack at R31's link, it obviously wasn't Barbara Eden. At least, that should be obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells.

by Anonymousreply 199July 18, 2021 2:43 AM

R198, true Davis had ONE full facelift around 1979-1980 or so. She took a chance, but Ball was too terrified...

by Anonymousreply 200July 18, 2021 3:11 AM

I think there were probably a number of actresses who, had Desi Arnez married any of them, nobody would even remember Lucille Ball.

by Anonymousreply 201July 18, 2021 3:22 AM

R200 Lucy had been told by numerous doctors that she couldn't get a face lift because of her very thin skin. I don't think she was terrified, she just chose not to go against doctor's advice. It is why instead of a facelift she wore strong tape under her wigs to pull her face up.

by Anonymousreply 202July 18, 2021 3:27 AM

In her later years, Dietrich had tiny hooks installed in the front of her wigs which she would push through the skin at the top of her forehead to pull her skin up. She used an antibacterial ointment to prevent infection. These women were SERIOUS about their looks and stardom.

When they realized they could no longer appear in public without some semblance of their famous looks, some of them retired from public view entirely. Marlene was one. Joan Crawford was another. She never appeared in public again after she was photographed at a Rainbow Room reception for her buddy Roz Russell and she, Joan, saw the photos in the next mornings' papers.

by Anonymousreply 203July 18, 2021 3:39 AM

I've heard that about Dietrich. It must've been painful to do that to your skin!

She held up for a helluva long time, though. She didn't retire from the public eye until she was in her late 70s because at that point she finally could no longer look like "Dietrich" anymore. She made the image last an exceptionally long time.

by Anonymousreply 204July 18, 2021 3:57 AM

Joan Crawford still looked pretty good in the face, imho. Not bad at all for a 70ish woman. The problem was that absolutely hideous wig, it was awful and the dress and jewelry didn't help either. If she'd worn a better wig and a different dress she would've looked good for her age.

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by Anonymousreply 205July 18, 2021 4:00 AM

Who is Yvonne DeCarlo?

by Anonymousreply 206July 18, 2021 4:04 AM

^^She played Lily Munster

by Anonymousreply 207July 18, 2021 4:05 AM

The girl knew her camera...

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by Anonymousreply 208July 18, 2021 4:10 AM

As a kid I loved that final shot of Lucy in the show opening, it was so glamorous and gracious after all that slapstick. Her face had a wundafull exaggerated bone structure, great armature.

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by Anonymousreply 209July 18, 2021 4:20 AM

Lucy was a lovely person.

by Anonymousreply 210July 18, 2021 4:24 AM

She looked great for 50ish in that Lucy Show opening.

You sure she had nothing done?

by Anonymousreply 211July 18, 2021 6:33 AM

Yvonne de Carlo

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by Anonymousreply 212July 18, 2021 6:37 AM

[quote]Joan Crawford still looked pretty good in the face, imho. Not bad at all for a 70ish woman. The problem was that absolutely hideous wig, it was awful and the dress and jewelry didn't help either. If she'd worn a better wig and a different dress she would've looked good for her age.

I'm quite surprised you didn't mention her makeup in that photo as part of the problem.....

by Anonymousreply 213July 18, 2021 12:56 PM

R208 This also shows the importance of lighting, makeup and a flattering wig. Just one year later, Lucy filmed the closing shot for the "Here's Lucy" credits and looked SO much older.

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by Anonymousreply 214July 18, 2021 1:11 PM

Lucy's troupe

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by Anonymousreply 215July 18, 2021 3:24 PM

I remember seeing a clip on here of either the Merv Griffin or Mike Douglas shows (I think it was the latter). Lucy was the guest and Mame was about to be released. The host told Lucy, "You know, I'm hearing from everyone that this is the best musical ever committed to film."

And Lucy is all "thank you" about it.

It's painful to watch knowing what everyone was *really* saying.

by Anonymousreply 216July 18, 2021 3:44 PM

It was Merv, r216...

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by Anonymousreply 217July 18, 2021 3:48 PM

The thing I like most about Lucy is how she reacted when accused of communism in the fifties. Class.

by Anonymousreply 218July 18, 2021 3:57 PM

R218, the quote I read about that was from her husband:, something like "The only thing about Lucy that's red is her hair."

by Anonymousreply 219July 18, 2021 4:04 PM

Commie bitch!

by Anonymousreply 220July 18, 2021 4:07 PM

What now, Catherine Curtis?

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by Anonymousreply 221July 18, 2021 4:24 PM

[quote]"The only thing about Lucy that's red is her hair."

"And we all know that isn't even real."

by Anonymousreply 222July 18, 2021 4:48 PM

That Merv Griffin interview makes Lucy seem very nice and pretty grounded.

Responding to newspaper reports that her voice was dubbed in Mame: "That singer should sue."

by Anonymousreply 223July 18, 2021 4:49 PM

"And the carpets did NOT match the drapes, I can assure you."

by Anonymousreply 224July 18, 2021 4:50 PM

Of course not. Henna rinse is not meant to be applied to the vulva.

by Anonymousreply 225July 18, 2021 4:58 PM

@r217, That Merv Griffin interview was the biggest bunch of BS. I never realized what a lousy liar Lucy was. The fake outrage and modesty about everything about Mame is so over the top. She knew she had a dog on her hands and was trying desperately to salvage the movie before it even opened. Pleading with her fans to go see it, because if they don't not only will it be a bad movie, but a box office flop too

by Anonymousreply 226July 18, 2021 5:34 PM

Lucille overestimated the number of people who would pay to see her sing in a movie for 2 hours vs. the number of people who wouldn't *mind* not changing the channel to see her be silly for free for 30 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 227July 18, 2021 5:36 PM

I never recovered from the indignity.

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by Anonymousreply 228July 18, 2021 5:40 PM

Lucy Carter meets Lucille Ball

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by Anonymousreply 229July 18, 2021 5:49 PM

I never realized how much Lucy and Madonna had in common. Both tops in their generas, loved by millions, but both victims of self-sabotage simply by not knowing when to leave the party

by Anonymousreply 230July 18, 2021 5:51 PM

I disagree. Lucy went out with some amount of dignity still intact.

by Anonymousreply 231July 18, 2021 5:53 PM

The Hirschfeld caricature of Lucy in the closing credits in r209's link was taken from the ad campaign for MGM's "Thousands Cheer" (1943) .

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by Anonymousreply 232July 18, 2021 6:03 PM

Damn, I think Hirschfeld hated some of those people, especially our Judy.

by Anonymousreply 233July 18, 2021 6:27 PM

R229 ha, how shameless! But fun.

by Anonymousreply 234July 18, 2021 6:52 PM

Lucy really did go out with some dignity. Life With Lucy was unfortunate, but she always got lots of cheers and applause when she made a public appearance. One month before her death, she got a standing ovation at the Oscars which in retrospect turned out to be a wonderful send-off.

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by Anonymousreply 235July 18, 2021 7:06 PM

This is so bittersweet

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by Anonymousreply 236July 18, 2021 7:09 PM

They weren't Tracy and Hepburn, r235, but they had a nice chemistry.

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by Anonymousreply 237July 18, 2021 7:10 PM

A little respect talk show hostess.

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by Anonymousreply 238July 18, 2021 7:13 PM

Well, r238, all she really said was that she wasn't happy to be there. And she did acknowledge that she died a month later. It's Cohen who's trying to make it more than it was.

by Anonymousreply 239July 18, 2021 7:20 PM

R238 Indeed. That was shitty of Ricki. She should have tempered that useless anecdote with utmost respect, if she had to tell it at all.

by Anonymousreply 240July 18, 2021 7:21 PM

r239 that doesn't sound like Ms. Cohen at all!

by Anonymousreply 241July 18, 2021 7:22 PM

I know, r241, she's usually far worse!

by Anonymousreply 242July 18, 2021 7:23 PM

Rob Lowe said that Lucy was very nice and gracious to him backstage at the Oscars.

by Anonymousreply 243July 18, 2021 7:25 PM

We already talked about the Ricki Lake anecdote days ago (see r3) and honestly it didn't sound like a terrible story that was meant to disrespect her. Like someone already said, Ball was nice to Rob Lowe on the same night, so it's not like she was cranky to everyone because of health.

by Anonymousreply 244July 18, 2021 7:25 PM

Vivian Vance's ex co-stared in The Facts of Life, and I just realized his name is misspelled in the credits.

by Anonymousreply 245July 18, 2021 7:28 PM

Rob was probably the only one who Lucy was aware of. Plus he was a cute young guy. So, r244, I'm going with she wasn't doing great physically and was short to most everyone else because of it.

by Anonymousreply 246July 18, 2021 8:01 PM

R168's story also suggests otherwise, r246.

by Anonymousreply 247July 18, 2021 8:02 PM

How so, r247?

by Anonymousreply 248July 18, 2021 8:09 PM

[quote]I disagree. Lucy went out with some amount of dignity still intact.

Yes, but with not as much dignity intact as if she had never done MAME or that STONE PILLOW TV movie or that final sitcom, or any of those latter-day talk show appearances in which she came across as a bitter, sullen, bored, and/or angry.

by Anonymousreply 249July 18, 2021 8:26 PM

She never quite got over the bad clams, r249.

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by Anonymousreply 250July 18, 2021 8:33 PM

I feel like Carol Burnett and Bea Arthur are more famous and beloved today than Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 251July 18, 2021 9:08 PM

Nobody under 100 knows who Carol Burnett is today.

by Anonymousreply 252July 18, 2021 9:38 PM

I believe Lucy was on the Dick Cavett show when she was in NY when Mame was opening there. She seemed on the grouchy side like she felt no need to trowel on the star charm. Maybe at that point she knew the reviews were awful?

by Anonymousreply 253July 18, 2021 9:45 PM

Umm, I believe Dietrich hooked those little hooks to tiny braids she made with her hair at her temples, sideburns and nape of her neck. The hooks didn't hook into her skin, silly!

by Anonymousreply 254July 18, 2021 10:17 PM

And I believe Taylor Negron misremembered Lucy's anecdote and misspoke about Lela Rogers. She wasn't a FOUNDER of The Hollywood Studio Club but she did all she could to intercept naive young starlet-hopefuls from lurking rapists at the train station and helped FOUND their way to the residence upon their arrival in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 255July 18, 2021 10:22 PM

[quote]Yes, but with not as much dignity intact as if she had never done MAME or that STONE PILLOW TV movie or that final sitcom, or any of those latter-day talk show appearances in which she came across as a bitter, sullen, bored, and/or angry.

Let's be fair. The public gave her a lot of shit for getting older as well. Lucy was apart of the first generation of TV icons who grew older in the public eye. And I don't think a lot of people were very accepting or understanding at the time of Lucy Ricardo getting older. Bob Hope, Milton Berle, Red Skeleton had it much easier than she did.

by Anonymousreply 256July 18, 2021 10:33 PM

[quote]Red Skeleton

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 257July 18, 2021 10:45 PM

Lucy was still very popular into the 70s. And remember she was already firmly in middle age when she started I love Lucy. So she wasn't getting shit for getting older.

She was getting shit for making horrible choices. And Bob Hope was getting a lot of shit too for not being funny and being a tired hack.

by Anonymousreply 258July 18, 2021 10:53 PM

What's amazing about I Love Lucy is that it's still hilarious and Lucy Ricardo is still laugh-out-loud funny. That's quite a legacy.

by Anonymousreply 259July 18, 2021 10:54 PM

[quote]And Bob Hope was getting a lot of shit too for not being funny and being a tired hack.

Bob Hope was awful, cringe-worthy awful. I remember watching his interminable specials when I was a kid in the 80s and it was like watching something prehistoric.

by Anonymousreply 260July 18, 2021 10:57 PM

R260 And believe me everyone knew it!

by Anonymousreply 261July 18, 2021 10:59 PM

Bob Hope was still doing those specials when he was 200 years old and had both feet in the grave. They basically drove him to Burbank, carried him on to the set, propped him up and turned on the cameras. Gilbert Gottfried was pretty funny talking about it....

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by Anonymousreply 262July 18, 2021 11:03 PM

Shut Up and Watch

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by Anonymousreply 263July 18, 2021 11:13 PM

Did Rob Lowe have to blow Allan Carr to get the Oscar gig?

by Anonymousreply 264July 19, 2021 12:09 AM

That's the opposite of how it worked, R264. You dropped your trou, stared at the ceiling and thought of your girlfriend or of England, while Carr or Cukor dropped to their knees to do the dirty work.

by Anonymousreply 265July 19, 2021 12:16 AM

How have I never seen this?!

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by Anonymousreply 266July 19, 2021 10:56 AM

What's VERY telling in that clip w/Merv at R217, is that not a SINGLE one of her 'jokes' gets a laugh. Not a one. So she may have been trying really hard, but the audience wasn't buying it.

by Anonymousreply 267July 19, 2021 1:22 PM

She was always upfront about her not being a joke telling comedienne, r267.

by Anonymousreply 268July 19, 2021 3:10 PM

R266 Lucy could still move, at that late date.

by Anonymousreply 269July 19, 2021 3:15 PM

R266 Lucy still had great legs. What is funny is they are singing a comedy song about an old woman dancing. The woman is 68. Lucy was 60 there.

by Anonymousreply 270July 19, 2021 3:25 PM

R268, true. But I guess my main point was that the audience didn't seem to be on her side at all.

by Anonymousreply 271July 19, 2021 3:57 PM

^ I agree, I don't think Lucy was a very good liar in real life, because everything in that interview was total BS and everyone knew it. I give credit to ol' Merv for keeping a straight face throughout the interview, but Merv was pretty good at lying and covering up his entire life. Right, Ryan Seacrest?

by Anonymousreply 272July 19, 2021 4:15 PM

Bob Hope. So sad in his decline. He was brought to a comedy show I was doing. An assistant repeated the lines to him, in a reserved section. When he’d laugh it was about 15 minutes later. He was gracious tho. Said he lived seeing comedy left in good hands, posed for pictures, told the woman they were beautiful in a vaudeville kind of way. Rallied best he could.

by Anonymousreply 273July 19, 2021 4:18 PM

'In her later years, Dietrich had tiny hooks installed in the front of her wigs which she would push through the skin at the top of her forehead to pull her skin up.'

I read her daughter's book and she is unsparing in her criticism of her mother. I don't recall anything like that.

by Anonymousreply 274July 19, 2021 4:20 PM

One of the most chilling moments in Merv Griffin's interview with Lucy about MAME is when he says "You sing in it, you dance," and she replies at best half-jokingly, in a peremptory tone: "Well, you can't really call it singing and you can't really call it dancing, but I'm out there doing what they asked me to do, and don't press me!" At which point Merv and the audience laugh very nervously. Also, later in the interview, when Lucy puts an end to the rumor that Lisa Kirk dubbed her vocals for the film, she says some nice things about Lisa but then says, "She doesn't do that sort of thing, she has her own career" -- whereas, of course, Lisa had dubbed most of Roz Russell's vocals in GYPSY more than 10 years earlier, after her big success on Broadway in KISS ME, KATE.

by Anonymousreply 275July 19, 2021 4:29 PM

horrid she stole the film role of Mame from the iconic angela lansbury.......

by Anonymousreply 276July 19, 2021 4:31 PM

The third edition of the TCM podcast will be all about Lucy, coming in the fall.

[quote] The 10-episode Ball podcast will premiere in October and feature more than 50 new interviews in an examination of her life, from her early years as a model to her “triumphant takeover of television,” a network statement says. It promises “surprising revelations at every turn.”

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by Anonymousreply 277July 19, 2021 4:46 PM

Someone needs to do a podcast on Vivian Vance

by Anonymousreply 278July 19, 2021 8:27 PM

Lucy only did the movie of Mame because Angela had no interest in doing it.

by Anonymousreply 279July 19, 2021 8:29 PM

Bea did Mame because her husband was directing it and in her own words, he told Bea that "he owed her" for coming out to LA so she could have a television career. I loved the story Estelle would tell about first meeting Bea and telling her that she had just seen Mame on TV. "PLEASE!" Bea moaned. Although Bea and Lucy remained good friends until her passing.

Lucy did Mame because she thought it was good material. And her name could it financed to the big screen.

Her reason for doing her own singing was that the character was a heavy drinker and smoker, and thus it made no sense to have her singing like some grand opera star.

Almost everyone involved with the movie thought hiring Jane Connell was a huge mistake, as she was about twenty years too old for the part.

Lucy broke her leg right before filming which rendered her unable to dance a whole lot.

by Anonymousreply 280July 19, 2021 8:41 PM

"She owed him" I meant to say

by Anonymousreply 281July 19, 2021 8:43 PM

R277: Sounds like it will be hagiography probably featuring actual hags. It's sad that TCM is doing this about someone with a pretty minor film career and highlighting her tv work. There are plenty of old movie stars more worth a podcast.

by Anonymousreply 282July 19, 2021 8:53 PM

I've written this before but it's as good a thread as any to repeat it. I saw Mame on a Sunday afternoon at Radio City. The place was packed and we had to wait on line for two hours. My friends wanted to leave but at that point the line started to move. The audience loved the movie clapping after the songs(yes even after Jane Connell's song) and sang along with the title number.

I was appalled by the act of witnessing a train wreck with thousands of other people enjoying themselves as if they were picnicking at a public execution.

by Anonymousreply 283July 19, 2021 9:10 PM

R282 Lucy was already a star in pictures, not a major one, but she was well known, her films did well, and she was in the film mags all the time. However, TV made her a superstar.

by Anonymousreply 284July 19, 2021 9:17 PM

R279. Absolute BS. Lansbury fought for the part and was hurt, and then later really bitter she didn't get it. Always reminding others in various performance how great she was in musical theater. The reality is she didn't WRITE THE SONGS, she was lucky herself that she was cast in the first place. Mary Martin turned down the title role, and after numerous actresses had been considered, the part went to Angela Lansbury.

by Anonymousreply 285July 19, 2021 9:34 PM

[quote] "Well, you can't really call it singing and you can't really call it dancing, but I'm out there doing what they asked me to do, and don't press me!"

Lucy makes it sounds like others HOUNDED her to take the part, so she relented to please them. In reality, she knocked people to the floor to get the role.

by Anonymousreply 286July 19, 2021 9:39 PM

"In reality, she knocked people to the floor to get the role."

And did so in a slapstick manner, I assume.

by Anonymousreply 287July 19, 2021 9:42 PM

[quote]Her reason for doing her own singing was that the character was a heavy drinker and smoker, and thus it made no sense to have her singing like some grand opera star.

That was part of her ridiculous rationale for doing her own singing in the movie. Another part of her rationale was her correct statement that, if anyone else dubbed her, everyone in the audience would immediately recognize it wasn't her own voice. But the two main, real reasons why she did her own singing were delusion and ego. Which is extremely odd, because then she turned around and, at every opportunity, publicly derided her own singing in the movie.

by Anonymousreply 288July 19, 2021 10:01 PM

The problem with her Mame singing is that the uke wasn't big enough.

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by Anonymousreply 289July 19, 2021 10:13 PM

R285 I was just repeating what Lucy said. I know that Lansbury was bitter and Lucy had the gall to say such a thing.

by Anonymousreply 290July 19, 2021 10:14 PM

R284: She was nobody, one of many B-movie people who had more success in tv than they ever had in movies. The fan magazines were happy to fill space with B-movie types like her. The movie people who did radio like her were second raters like Red Skelton., just like her.

by Anonymousreply 291July 19, 2021 10:17 PM

It was gossip columnist Radie Harris who wrote in her column that Warners had hired Lisa Kirk to do back up vocal tracks of Mame's songs in case Lucy's tracks weren't usable. Both Ball and Warners immediately issued public denials that it had happened and they both had their lawyers send letters demanding a retraction, which was published shortly afterwards.

After Ball's death, Jerry Herman wrote of the nightmare assembling usable takes from Lucy's vocals. They rarely got more than one usable phrase per take and sometimes no more than single notes, which all had to be stitched together in the recording studio. But remember this was before the days of digital audio manipulation. Nightmare was the word used by all involved.

by Anonymousreply 292July 19, 2021 10:22 PM

I read that even Desi tried to talk her out of it. Where was Gary? Or did he know he would be out on his ass without a penny?

by Anonymousreply 293July 19, 2021 10:29 PM

@r292, I'm sure she sounded just like this...

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by Anonymousreply 294July 19, 2021 10:33 PM

She was much too old and her voice was destroyed by smoking. It's a shame nobody was honest with her and told her "you're insane to do this."

by Anonymousreply 295July 20, 2021 12:15 AM

10 years earlier, Lucy probable would been fine. But by 1973, the voice was shot ( never great as a singer anyway), and she’d lost whatever ability she had to play sophistication. In the 1940s, she coul pull off sophisticated

by Anonymousreply 296July 20, 2021 12:19 AM

'She was much too old and her voice was destroyed by smoking. It's a shame nobody was honest with her and told her "you're insane to do this."'

Everybody knew this at the time but nobody would dare to tell her except for Desi and she ignored him.

by Anonymousreply 297July 20, 2021 12:23 AM

She could still pull off sophisticated in the '50s!

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by Anonymousreply 298July 20, 2021 12:24 AM

[quote] She was nobody, one of many B-movie people who had more success in tv than they ever had in movies.

When you get called titles like "Queen of the Bs" and "Technicolor Tessie" you have achieved some real stardom, though of course nothing like the stardom she achieved as "Queen of TV!"

by Anonymousreply 299July 20, 2021 12:36 AM

R298 That is a Little Rock drag queen's idea of sophistication.

by Anonymousreply 300July 20, 2021 12:44 AM

That TCM podcast advertising 50 new interviews....?

Most anyone pertinent enough to say something profound is long dead. I fear these interviews will be with Kate MacKinnon types bragging about how Lucy influenced their lives.....ugh.

by Anonymousreply 301July 20, 2021 1:09 AM

True r301. The problem with any bio of a classic Hollywood personality is that all of their contemporaries are now dead.

by Anonymousreply 302July 20, 2021 1:11 AM

[quote]What's amazing about I Love Lucy is that it's still hilarious and Lucy Ricardo is still laugh-out-loud funny. That's quite a legacy.

The writing played a part in that. When Jess Oppenheimer was writing her scripts, he tried to ground the set-ups logically. Otherwise it's just a free-for-all. Once he sued the writers of her subsequent shows, they tried to dumb her character down. That's why the opening of [italic]Here's Lucy[/italic] turns her into a puppet: other people are having to plan her schemes for her, and she goes along with them.

by Anonymousreply 303July 20, 2021 3:32 AM

[quote]Everybody knew this at the time but nobody would dare to tell her except for Desi and she ignored him.

Desi was a musician and a better singer than her on a bad day than she was on a good day, and the box office receipts and reviews proved him right. It should have been Angela Lansbury, but if Warner Bros. really didn't want her then they should have considered Doris Day or Ann-Margret.

ABC's involvement in the film's production shouldn't be overlooked. They were 1 for 3 since they also made [italic]Song of Norway[/italic] and co-produced [italic]Cabaret[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 304July 20, 2021 3:38 AM

I believe Bette Davis was also interested in the role of Mame, if you can even imagine.

by Anonymousreply 305July 20, 2021 3:49 AM

Christ, I just read the lyrics to the Mame song, and that’s some pretty racist shit going on there.

by Anonymousreply 306July 20, 2021 3:54 AM

No, r305, Vera. She thought she had a shot at it.

by Anonymousreply 307July 20, 2021 3:57 AM

Even Vera wouldn't have worked for Davis. She was in even worse shape than Lucy was by that time.

by Anonymousreply 308July 20, 2021 4:15 AM

I could've seen Bette doing the role in the original picture.

by Anonymousreply 309July 20, 2021 4:21 AM

In the 50s with Roz Russel, yes. But by the mid-70s the booze and smoking had really taken their toll, just like they had on Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 310July 20, 2021 4:27 AM

r303 I find Here's Lucy and later seasons of The Lucy Show unwatchable

by Anonymousreply 311July 20, 2021 9:37 AM

Huge ILL fan but for me, nothing Lucy did after it came close to what she accomplished as Lucy Ricardo, including her few hit movies like Yours, Mine and Ours.

I do love listening to the Wildcat OBR even if Lucy's singing voice isn't great.

by Anonymousreply 312July 20, 2021 12:35 PM

Were there really rumors that Lucy and Viv were lovers? Or is that just television lore?

by Anonymousreply 313July 20, 2021 12:36 PM

[quote]Desi was a musician and a better singer than her on a bad day than she was on a good day

Oh, please. Desi could barely sing any better than Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 314July 20, 2021 2:17 PM

Lucy had pretty good legs for a 60yo in this clip. And she could still move.

Ginger Rogers was the same age at the time and it's pretty amazing to see her move so effortlessly. She really makes that footwork at the beginning look easy, when it's really not.

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by Anonymousreply 315July 20, 2021 5:15 PM

I'm watching ILL on DecadesTV as I type. It's the episode where Tennessee Ernie Ford comes to visit and Lucy vamps it up as an evil glamorpuss to get him to leave. It's an amazing combination of small brilliant comic bits and timing and truly embarrassing 1950s comic tropes.

"I'm the wicked city woman your mother warned you about."

"You got quite a hitch in your getalong."

by Anonymousreply 316July 20, 2021 5:26 PM

The Tennessee Ernie Ford episodes rank among my least favorite. The worst is when they stop to visit him on their way to California. Along with Lucy Goes to Scotland, it's one of the worst episodes of the series

by Anonymousreply 317July 20, 2021 5:34 PM

I liked Tennessee Ernie Ford's visits to The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy more than I Love Lucy. But, Tennessee Bound is also notable for Aaron Spelling's bit part.

by Anonymousreply 318July 20, 2021 5:44 PM

r317 I beg to disagree about the Bent Fork episode. What would the world be like without Teensy and Weensy?

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by Anonymousreply 319July 20, 2021 5:46 PM

[quote]It should have been Angela Lansbury

Angela wasn't a box office draw at the time. Besides, she was semi retired and living in Ireland.

[quote]really didn't want her then they should have considered Doris Day or Ann-Margret

Doris was over showbiz by that point. The only reason she was still working on TV was because she was contractually obligated to do a TV show thanks to her ex husbands shady business dealings.

Ann was too young for the part at the time.

by Anonymousreply 320July 20, 2021 7:02 PM

[quote]Angela wasn't a box office draw at the time. Besides, she was semi retired and living in Ireland.

Your second statement is incorrect. Please don't state things as facts when they aren't.

by Anonymousreply 321July 20, 2021 8:17 PM

Just my opinion but even if Lansbury had starred in the film of MAME, it would have still been a ponderous bore. The story of Auntie Mame was old hat and no longer shocking or even whimsical by the early 70s, American culture had moved on. Frankly, I think it might have ruined Lansbury's career.

by Anonymousreply 322July 20, 2021 8:48 PM

Angela Lansbury was solving mysteries in Maine.

by Anonymousreply 323July 20, 2021 8:53 PM

Has the question been sufficiently answered and what was the outcome?

by Anonymousreply 324July 20, 2021 9:04 PM

This is one of the better DL threads we've had recently

by Anonymousreply 325July 20, 2021 11:43 PM

If Bedknobs and Broomsticks didn't ruin Lansbury's career nothing could.

by Anonymousreply 326July 20, 2021 11:49 PM

You don't buzz a legend...

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by Anonymousreply 327July 21, 2021 7:46 PM

^ Lucy should have said, "drunk" = "Stiff", or Desi

by Anonymousreply 328July 21, 2021 7:53 PM

Lucy appeared to have some new dentures in that Password clip.

by Anonymousreply 329July 22, 2021 12:17 AM

Re Lucy's singing, I knew about her Broadway stint in "Wildcat," but never heard her sing the famous song from it. (I remember my aunt had the cast album in her collection when I was a kid, and I can still picture the cover with a cartoon drawing of Lucy.) Here she is, 1960, not bad at all. I guess her voice had dropped too low by the time she did Mame.

You never hear much about that musical. Is it ever revived?

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by Anonymousreply 330July 24, 2021 12:16 PM

[quote]The 10-episode Ball podcast

Good lord. Talk about overkill.

by Anonymousreply 331July 24, 2021 12:31 PM

R330: It's in every thread. Some stories talk about her voice going bad from exhaustion. Others mention that the audience wanted Lucy schtick. Despite being sold out, it closed before its run.

by Anonymousreply 332July 24, 2021 1:05 PM

R330, Lucy's singing voice was even a little better than in that clip before she did WILDCAT. Apparently, singing eight performances a week damaged her voice further than it had already been damaged by smoking, etc., probably because she was not used to singing that much and basically had no technique (and an iffy voice to begin with). If the movie of MAME had been made 15 or 20 years earlier, her singing would surely have been a lot more palatable -- plus, of course, she would have been more age-appropriate for the role. But that could never have happened, because the Broadway show didn't even open until 1966.

by Anonymousreply 333July 24, 2021 1:08 PM

R255, meet R180.

by Anonymousreply 334July 24, 2021 1:50 PM

Even age-appropriate Lucy wasn't right for Mame Dennis. The character combines high brow and low. Lucille was never convincing with the former.

by Anonymousreply 335July 24, 2021 2:39 PM

It's a pity that Jerry Herman didn't write a musical about an aging former prostitution whore alcoholic who couldn't sing.

by Anonymousreply 336July 24, 2021 3:49 PM

R336 Why? You have unfulfilled desire to appear in a musical?

by Anonymousreply 337July 24, 2021 3:50 PM

R330 I don't know how the critics feel about Wildcat. I suspect it isn't highly regarded because on paper it would've been the perfect property to have been revived for Reba to star in after her run in Annie Get Your Gun. I remember critics writing about various musicals that could've been revived with her as the star such as The Unsinkable Molly Brown but no one mentioned Wildcat.

by Anonymousreply 338July 24, 2021 4:02 PM

According to Wiki, about "Hey, Look Me Over" from Wildcat:

[quote]Cy Coleman later described the problem facing the songwriting team (Coleman and Carolyn Leigh): "How to write for a woman who had five good notes. And not just any woman, but the biggest star in the world at the time. What is she going to sing when she steps out on that stage for the first time? She had to land big or else we were all dead." During a brainstorming session, Coleman played one of his ideas on piano, doubtful it would work as a star vehicle. Leigh surprised him by calling back a few days later with a funny (incomplete) lyric for his melody.

by Anonymousreply 339July 24, 2021 4:06 PM

[quote] Wasn’t there some story out there about star crossed lovers Patty Duke and Desi Jr. being kept from each other?

When Lucy was breaking into the business, she did "art" photography. You know what that is? Nudies!

by Anonymousreply 340July 24, 2021 4:12 PM

R340 Patty, there is a difference between doing that and being so wild you didn't even know who fathered your child.

by Anonymousreply 341July 24, 2021 4:26 PM

[quote]When Lucy was breaking into the business, she did "art" photography.

Oh, honey . . . Lucille also did "art" fucking for $3 a pop.

by Anonymousreply 342July 24, 2021 4:40 PM

Her *I want* song...

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by Anonymousreply 343July 24, 2021 4:46 PM

Who ever thought Lucille Ball would be a great choice as a star of a musical?

by Anonymousreply 344July 24, 2021 5:00 PM

Lucille Ball, r344.

by Anonymousreply 345July 24, 2021 5:05 PM

[quote]Who ever thought Lucille Ball would be a great choice as a star of a musical?

Helen Keller

by Anonymousreply 346July 24, 2021 5:14 PM

Desilu was the silent producer of WILDCAT, providing the entire financial backing. Lucy wanted to do something non-TV after I LOVE LUCY/LUCY-DESI COMEDY HOUR and THE LUCY SHOW hadn't come into being. For a non-singer she certainly performed musical numbers on her first four series pretty often. WILDCAT did not recoup, it closed early because Lucy couldn't take the 8-show-a-week schedule and was injured several times during the run, and frequently exhausted. Later she said "you can't make any money in the theatre" and compared to her television money, she was right.

However, when Ball was in the show on Broadway, it was a sold out smash. WILDCAT made the stock rounds immediately after its Broadway run. Other ladies who played the title role include a very diverse group of talents: Mamie Van Doren, Gale Storm, Margaret Whiting, Martha Raye, Dolores Gray, Peggy Cass (with George Wallace), Dorothy Loudon (with Mark Dawson), Carmel Quinn (with Ed McMahon) and Karen Morrow. Some are vocalists first and not really comediennes at all. However, all of them are better and more assured singers than Miss Ball. There's enough for Wildy sing in the show that you can put a singer in it.

WILDCAT fans may want to check out the two cover versions of the score: a small group jazz instrumental version with Coleman on piano, and a studio cast recording headlined by Jack Jones that includes the cut song "Ain't It Sad." There's also a Margaret Whiting/Mel Torme Broadway album on Verve that will let you hear the contrapuntal songs "Angelina" and "You're Far Away From Home", also cut. Sarah Zahn covered an earlier version of the song for the spot that "Hey Look Me Over" eventually occupied, called "Bouncin' Back for More" and I think Lucy and Shirley MacLaine may have even sung it on a special of Shirley's.

Despite Coleman's "5 note" quote, the range in the printed score--and Ball sings it on the album--is from a G below middle C to a (mixed belted, but fairly accurate pitch-wise) Eb (top space, treble clef) in "El Sombrero". That's nearly an octave and a sixth, a pretty wide range for any musical theatre female belter vocal part back then. And the role contains six songs (with the Broadway cuts; before the cuts and on the cast album it was eight songs) and a few reprises. To compare, the role of Rose in GYPSY has seven songs and two reprises. Ball's vocal load in WILDCAT was pretty strenuous for a non-singer; certainly more than a Bette Davis/TWO'S COMPANY or Vivien Leigh/TOVARICH or Hildegarde Neff/SILK STOCKINGS level of singing was required.

As for MAME, well...at the time Lucille Ball was the most recognizable face (bar none) in the world. Who wouldn't want that person in their movie? Yes the state of Lucille's musical performance skills and looks and age at that time are a serious handicap to the film but I would argue that Saks' torpid direction and Zindel's dull screenplay are equally culpable, if not moreso, in making the film so soggy.

My one complaint about Rhino's re-release of the MAME soundtrack is that in cleaning up the audio, the higher fidelity actually made Lucy sound worse. You can hear all the patches and cuts between takes. It would have been nice--and there was room on the CD--to have also had additional Bonus Track versions of her vocals where they were cleaned up and gently autotuned to sound as good as possible, too. When that was done to fix all the lousy out of tune singing on the original Broadway cast album of PROMISES, PROMISES and it makes it an entirely different listening experience.

by Anonymousreply 347July 24, 2021 5:33 PM

Who was out of tune on Promises, Promises?

by Anonymousreply 348July 24, 2021 5:44 PM

Lucy & Shirl

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by Anonymousreply 349July 24, 2021 5:51 PM

In the original mix R348, quite a few of the principals, most notably Jerry Orbach (he didn't have that problem in any consequential way on any other show). One of the specialty labels tuned the album up and remixed it and now it sounds great, but not overprocessed.

by Anonymousreply 350July 24, 2021 5:56 PM

The remastered, auto-tuned Promises, Promises CD is excellent. You can't even tell anyone was autotuned.

by Anonymousreply 351July 24, 2021 6:01 PM

R335, Lucy was impossibly high brow and elegant in her second duet with Van Johnson on ILL

by Anonymousreply 352July 24, 2021 6:04 PM

She did a graceful, elegant dance, r352. She still didn't come off as if she lived on Beekman Place, r352.

by Anonymousreply 353July 24, 2021 6:07 PM

To add: What's so impossibly high brow about performing in a night club?

by Anonymousreply 354July 24, 2021 6:09 PM

Since when are actresses "high brow"?

They were regarded as the equivalent of prostitutes.

by Anonymousreply 355July 24, 2021 6:22 PM

R330

I've never heard of "Wildcat". Is it the two story of two lesbians on their way out west asking to be licked over?

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by Anonymousreply 356July 24, 2021 6:25 PM

R353, neither did Marion Tanner.

by Anonymousreply 357July 24, 2021 6:33 PM

R354, well, Mame showed her "talent" when she was in the chorus with Vera

by Anonymousreply 358July 24, 2021 6:36 PM

Be honest: How many of those annoying JerkMate ads have you skipped in your lifetime?

A. None.

B. Less than 1,000.

C. More than 1,000.

D. I'm Vivian Vance fingering her honey-hole and I click ON the ad!

by Anonymousreply 359July 24, 2021 6:46 PM

I believe she did that in Around the World With Auntie Mame, r358.

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by Anonymousreply 360July 24, 2021 7:10 PM

Did Lucy dye her bush red or did she just shave it off?

by Anonymousreply 361July 24, 2021 7:38 PM

[quote] Did Lucy dye her bush red or did she just shave it off?

According to R27, Lucy forced Barbara Eden to pluck out each curly pube.

by Anonymousreply 362July 24, 2021 9:43 PM

The critics hated "Wildcat" and it was not meant to be a musical. N. Richard Nash took the money and ran.

"Mame" had some sort of financial participation from Ball (the stores seem to vary), so again she financed her own mistake.

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by Anonymousreply 363July 25, 2021 12:52 AM

Even in the "candid" set photos from Mame, they put the Vaseline on the camera lens with a trowel.

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by Anonymousreply 364July 25, 2021 1:07 AM

I wonder if Ball and Arthur actually got along on the set of MAME. Sounds like neither one was the friendliest, most chill person in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 365July 25, 2021 3:27 AM

I'm sure Bea had more fun with Angie, r365.

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by Anonymousreply 366July 25, 2021 3:34 AM

What a great photo, R365

I'm sure Angie was the first person Bea called when someone mysteriously dropped dead in Tuckahoe.

by Anonymousreply 367July 25, 2021 3:38 AM

Compare their heels, r367.

by Anonymousreply 368July 25, 2021 3:50 AM

But Bea was still full of resentment that she didn't get the final curtain call dressed in white and she never did.

It's all a matter of bone structure.

by Anonymousreply 369July 27, 2021 3:43 AM

From everything I've read or watched about Lucy, she could be a tough cookie, depending on who you were and how you acted towards her... but overall, she was actually quite encouraging if she truly liked and respected you. But when it came to work, she was all business. If you weren't prepared for that, well...

by Anonymousreply 370July 27, 2021 4:53 AM

For those here who aren't familiar with the score to WILDCAT (can that be anyone here??), it's actually quite wonderful, including all of Lucy's songs. One of the best overtures ever composed for a Broadway show and leading man Keith Andes delivers his numbers with a virile sexiness.

Most of you will probably know that Valerie Harper was a chorus girl in the ensemble.

by Anonymousreply 371July 27, 2021 2:14 PM

r370: Thats generally true, but it doesn't excuse her attitude to Joans Crawford and Blondell. The only star that did not feel her wrath was Gale Gordon.

Interestingly, Gordon is much funnier and has more chemistry with Eve Arden in "Our Miss Brooks".

by Anonymousreply 372July 27, 2021 2:25 PM

Funny, I’ve never once watched “our Miss Brooks,“ though I’ve seen it referred to as a hugely popular show of the day. Never saw any reruns listed in the 60s and 70s.

by Anonymousreply 373July 27, 2021 4:20 PM

As a little kid in the late 1950s I loved watching OUR MISS BROOKS in morning reruns. It was right up there with ILL, MY LITTLE MARGIE (Gale Storm), PRIVATE SECETARY (Ann Sothern), DECEMBER BRIDE (Spring Byington) and I MARRIED JOAN (Joan Davis). Those ladies were like my baby sitters! But watching most of them now, except for ILL, they're shockingly tedious and unfunny.

Eve Arden scored brilliantly as a supporting player but is less effective as the lead Connie Brooks, IMHO.

However, there is still the eye candy of handsome Robert Rockwell as heart throb/biology teacher Mr. Boynton and young Richard Crenna as perennial high school student Walter Denton.

by Anonymousreply 374July 27, 2021 4:36 PM

Lucy had to be reminded, r371...

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by Anonymousreply 375July 27, 2021 4:55 PM

R371 I’ve always loved the brass orchestrations in the overtures to Wildcat and the OBC recordings of Gypsy and How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. When I was about 10 years old, my piano teacher asked me to make a list of my favorite songs, and they were all from musicals, including Wildcat. The handwriting was already all over the wall!

by Anonymousreply 376July 27, 2021 7:55 PM

R371 Valerie Harper once told a lovely story that during the run of Wildcat, Lucy saw that the dressing rooms needed painting, so she bought paint and had a painting party with the cast.

by Anonymousreply 377July 27, 2021 7:58 PM

R371 & R375 The clip posted by R375 is hilarious and I think shows that Jack Benny and Lucille Ball knew Valerie Harper had enough comic sense to let them be funny "directing" her on how to use the microphones to give her thank you speech. Of all the MTM Show actors that have left us, and to paraphrase Dorothy Gale, I think I miss Valerie Harper most of all.

by Anonymousreply 378July 27, 2021 8:06 PM

Lucy "singing" in her cigarette-ravaged raspy croaking voice is really unpleasant to listen to. I can't believe they let her do Mame.

by Anonymousreply 379July 27, 2021 8:10 PM

R372 Although Our Miss Brooks had some physical comedy, I think the show's humor came more from the dialogue and situations. The show transferred directly from radio, whereas I Love Lucy was not a direct transfer from Lucy's radio show, My Favorite Husband. I've always loved the repartee between characters in OMB, whether on the radio or TV versions, particularly between Eve Arden and Gale Gordon. I think Gale Gordon could be more of an actor on OMB, whereas on The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy, he was often a target for physical comedy.

by Anonymousreply 380July 27, 2021 8:31 PM

I like Tall Hope.

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by Anonymousreply 381July 27, 2021 8:58 PM

Eve Arden became hugely popular with Our Miss Brooks, especially among female schoolteachers who admired the way she stood up for their profession and talked back to the blustering male principal (Gale Gordon). Arden was playing an educated working woman long before Mary Tyler Moore, who now gets all the credit for liberation in the workplace.

The show, however, is sadly dated and most episodes are dull and repetitive. But Arden always had a funny way with a line, even when the writing wasn't good.

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by Anonymousreply 382July 27, 2021 9:18 PM

Eve's Our Miss Brooks was so well-known she got to be promoted to principal, herself, in Grease!

by Anonymousreply 383July 27, 2021 10:00 PM

[quote]Most of you will probably know that Valerie Harper was a chorus girl in the ensemble.

Till Sandy Duncan replaced her.

by Anonymousreply 384July 27, 2021 10:29 PM

Daisy Enright: (Mary Jane Croft) "When I was in my teens, there weren't very many stars on television."

Connie Brooks: (Eve Arden) "When you were in your teens, there weren't many stars on the flag."

by Anonymousreply 385July 27, 2021 10:41 PM

[quote] Till Sandy Duncan replaced her.

Did Valerie poke her in the eye? The good one?

by Anonymousreply 386July 27, 2021 10:49 PM

R27, I laughed my head off reading that story made up from Barbara Eden. Very funny.

What I liked about Lucy was that she seemed to be a real FAN of other talent, especially those who didn't things she could never in a million years do, like Garland and Horne. This is Lucy interviewing Miss Streisand when Babs was a youngster. She's so eager and provides the bullshit for Streisand to respond to. Babs acts like she's not the least bit impressed with Lucy:

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by Anonymousreply 387July 27, 2021 10:52 PM

r387: Story from Lee Tannen, author of "I Loved Lucy: My Friendship with Lucille Ball"

Driving with Lucy....(On the car radio) Someone was singing 'Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas'. "I hate all female singers!" Lucy said, turning down the volume.

Tannen: "Lucy, what do you mean? You love Barbra Streisand, Judy Garland and Lena Horne!"

Lucy: "Those are actresses who sing. Jesus, don't you know anything?"

by Anonymousreply 388July 27, 2021 11:14 PM

The Big Street

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by Anonymousreply 389July 28, 2021 12:47 AM

I agree with her, R388!

by Anonymousreply 390July 28, 2021 1:02 AM

"The Big Street" huh? Was this one of Lucy's early "art" films? I'm sure there was a lineup in both directions!

by Anonymousreply 391July 28, 2021 2:11 AM

Fuller Brush Girl

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by Anonymousreply 392July 28, 2021 2:58 AM

I wish Lucy would have thrown hot coffee at R326 and everyone who clicked WW on it.

by Anonymousreply 393July 28, 2021 5:58 AM

R392 The Fuller Brush Girl is my favorite Lucille Ball movie because by 1950 she had already honed her ability to do physical comedy to the level of Lucy Ricardo, a year before the first season of ILL. Lucy had to be hospitalized after doing the "face powder explosion at the switchboard" scene in Fuller Brush Girl because she had inhaled so much powder into her lungs.

by Anonymousreply 394July 28, 2021 6:23 AM

WHET Kirby Furlong?

by Anonymousreply 395July 28, 2021 6:25 AM

By 1950, she was mostly on radio perfecting her repertoire of verbal tics rather than anything resembling physical comedy. Ball was a B movie queen who was rapidly becoming too old to cast. That's why she went into radio.

by Anonymousreply 396July 28, 2021 12:45 PM

It's interesting that Lucy was given a very prominent front row seat at that famous MGM 1943 anniversary photo. She's right up there with A-listers Kate Hepburn, Hedy Lamarr, Greer Garson, Margaret Sullavan and studio chief LB Mayer. So there must have been great promise in her stardom, at least briefly, when she was rescued from RKO's B pictures and imported to the studio with "more stars than there are in heaven."

I wonder what MGM saw in her back then (I believe she was in her early 30s) and what they intended to do with her.

by Anonymousreply 397July 28, 2021 12:55 PM

Given Lucy's past, she was brought into the MGM stable to fill some pretty-and-maybe-funny supporting roles while doing what she did best off-screen.

Unfortunately, she had been at the game a little too long and the MGM execs started calling her "Loosey Ball." "Her career, like her pussy, won't have any traction here," Mayer finally was reported to have said, although he usually didn't use such language.

However, one of the bank men in New York who had flown to California to "counsel" her was heard saying, "She has a snatch for radio."

So cruel.

But it all worked out for her in the end. Because that's the part of her Desi liked.

by Anonymousreply 398July 28, 2021 1:06 PM

R347 is why, underneath it all, I keep returning to this cesspool of meanness, dullness and depravity.

And I have no Gary to talk me out of it.

by Anonymousreply 399July 28, 2021 1:12 PM

r397. I think also because the rows are alphabetical. But you are right, why buy out someones contract and do nothing with them? Like Fox buying out Carole Landis' contract from Hal Roach. After Zanuck was through fucking her, he tossed her into Bs.

by Anonymousreply 400July 28, 2021 1:44 PM

R388, I remember that Lucy said something similar when she was on The Dinah Shore Show to promote the movie of MAME. At one point, Lucy said (jokingly?) to Dinah something like, "You know, I hate you because you're a singer, and I'm not." And then, later in the show -- believe it or not -- Dinah sang "Open a New Window" while Lucy sat there with a smile frozen on her face. I wish I could find the clip, but I swear, that's how I remember it.

by Anonymousreply 401July 28, 2021 2:24 PM

Are you sure you're remembering it correctly? I seem to recall Dinah saying, 'Somebody open a window in here!' after Gary Morton came out of bathroom just off-set. Though, yes, Lucy did still force a smile.

by Anonymousreply 402July 28, 2021 3:49 PM

Today's episode....Ricky gets the call...

by Anonymousreply 403July 28, 2021 5:55 PM

Damn, this thread has legs!

by Anonymousreply 404July 28, 2021 6:05 PM

Well, it's the first Lucy thread that I can remember in all my many years here that has some balanced and fair opinions and info about her instead of the usual shit.

by Anonymousreply 405July 28, 2021 6:06 PM

[quote]She wanted kids and couldn't have them until she was over 40.

I think was 40 when Lucie was born, 41 when Desi was born.

by Anonymousreply 406July 28, 2021 6:18 PM

[quote]She wanted kids and couldn't have them until she was over 40.

Oh, I'm sure she could've had them before then but chose not to.

by Anonymousreply 407July 28, 2021 6:41 PM

There's only one way she got that front row seat. And it sure wasn't from being a box office draw. I think sleeping with people is fine if it's something you want to do to get ahead and sex is sex but Louis B? No.

by Anonymousreply 408July 28, 2021 9:46 PM

In 1943, Lucy was the female star of a big budget MGM musical costarring Red Skelton and Gene Kelly. She was hardly unknown. Unlike at RKO, Lucy's MGM pictures weren't Bs, they were budgeted at $1,000,000 or more, that was an A level budget. Also, in 1942 Louis B, had fired his four most glamorous leading ladies. Ball helped bring the glamour for the front row, especially with her new MGM red hair.

by Anonymousreply 409July 28, 2021 10:36 PM

I remember Pogen cookies R195! Delicious little Swedish spice cookies.

by Anonymousreply 410July 28, 2021 11:26 PM

Lucy was only at MGM 1943-46. During 1943, besides "DuBarry Was a Lady", she was in a film that was filled with MGM contract players as part of a "live show" sequence, "Thousands Cheers" and then "Best Foot Forward" didn't have a big name cast (it was Virginia Weidler's last film, though) but did feature Harry James and his Orchestra and had box office of 1.1M, which means it lost money. Not really a big 1943 outside of DuBarry. They may have had hopes, but she was gone rather quickly and 1943 only had one real triumph. Her one 1944 release lost a lot of money. In 1945, she was a supporting player in a lesser Tracy-Hepburn film. and in an Abbott & Costello film.

by Anonymousreply 411July 28, 2021 11:26 PM

Helen Lawson was the original star of Best Foot Forward but then she was fired. It was known around the lot as Best Cunt Forward.

by Anonymousreply 412July 28, 2021 11:28 PM

Lucy and Dinah had no problem pretending they were Supremes.

Although I don't think Lucy is even singing on this.

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by Anonymousreply 413July 28, 2021 11:36 PM

Lucy and Dinah also did Bosom Buddies on Dinah's show. All the insults were directed towards Lucy but the biggest laugh came when she said "you should keep your hair natural like mine". At one point, Lucy started drinking a glass of water and totally lost the beat of the song.

by Anonymousreply 414July 28, 2021 11:39 PM

I'm the friend of Lucy's dressmaker who posted above. One thing I didn't mention that is very pertinent here is her behavior during the dress fitting. As I recall, she was preparing a new wardrobe because she was going to be returning to Jamestown for a visit and there was going to be obviously some huge celebrations that never occurred. At any rate, Lucy was all business, which she should have been, she was there for a fitting, not backgammon. She was extremely exacting and there was never conversation, it was "this is what has to be done." She wanted some leg to be shown but was very specific about wanting high collars, obviously to hide her neck. I was very impressed that she knew what she wanted, expressed it simply and got it.

by Anonymousreply 415July 29, 2021 12:03 AM

I always wondered how she got cast in a Merman role.

by Anonymousreply 416July 29, 2021 12:36 AM

Lucy and Lena - bitches unite?

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by Anonymousreply 417July 29, 2021 12:58 AM

r409, who are you alluding to as the 4 glamour girls who were fired by LB Mayer in 1942?

Norma Shearer and Greta Garbo both retired from Hollywood in 1942 and never made another film. They weren't fired. Joan Crawford's contract wasn't renewed. Who was the 4th lady?

by Anonymousreply 418July 29, 2021 1:18 AM

Myrna Loy, but Jenette MacDonald was also let go around the same time.

by Anonymousreply 419July 29, 2021 2:33 AM

Emmy for Lucy

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by Anonymousreply 420July 29, 2021 2:41 AM

Loy was savvy and thoughtful enough to volunteer for the Red Cross during WWII. A woman of smarts and substance.

by Anonymousreply 421July 29, 2021 2:52 AM

r411: Virginia Weidler is a fascinating enigma. She quit show-business for good after BEST FOOT FORWARD - and really retired, never giving any interviews or appearing on chat shows. Her own children said she never talked about her Hollywood years. She was only 41 when she died of a heart attack in 1968.

by Anonymousreply 422July 29, 2021 3:04 AM

Cuban Desi was just a gateway...

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by Anonymousreply 423July 29, 2021 4:20 AM

Virginia Weidler was talented enough as a child to successfully play Norma Shearer's daughter and Kate Hepburn's sister but she quickly outgrew her looks and became unfortunately homely by her late teens, kind of a teenaged Mary Wickes. MGM didn't know what to do with her. She was probably smart to get out of the business when she did.

Jane Withers, a much bigger child star than Weidler, had the same problem but did turn her career around as a supporting actress in the 1950s.

by Anonymousreply 424July 29, 2021 12:54 PM

Weidler is one of the best things in "Philadelphia Story", esp. when she sings "Lydia". Sad that she died so young.

The effort to make Lucy into a bigger deal than she was really obscures what she could or couldn't do. Her movie career ended just as the studios entered their decline. At best, she made a good wisecracking supporting player, a coarser version of Eve Arden. Going into tv was what B-picture types like her did (as well as the old A-grade actresses and second tier A leading men like Robert Montgomery) and most of the ones who entered tv were successful.

by Anonymousreply 425July 29, 2021 1:05 PM

r424: Withers retired in the early '40s, though she as you say was glamour girl, she had a surprisingly good singing voice as a young adult In late 1944, Withers made her stage debut in the musical comedy GLAD TO SEE YOU , directed by Busby Berkeley. The show, intended for Broadway, closed after seven weeks of tryouts in Philadelphia and Boston. She introduced the Jule Styne-Sammy Cahn torch song "Guess I'll Hang My Tears Out to Dry" written for the play; this was soon after covered by Frank Sinatra and became a jazz and pop standard.

Withers managed her career very well.

by Anonymousreply 426July 29, 2021 6:19 PM

She was an absolute doll, r426.

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by Anonymousreply 427July 29, 2021 6:52 PM

A Lucille doll...

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by Anonymousreply 428July 30, 2021 3:32 PM

R428 Which looking nothing like Lucille Ball or the "Here's Lucy" marionette.

by Anonymousreply 429July 30, 2021 4:10 PM

^^ forgot link

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by Anonymousreply 430July 30, 2021 4:12 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 431July 30, 2021 4:13 PM

a Barbie Lucy...

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by Anonymousreply 432July 30, 2021 4:17 PM

[quote]I wonder if Ball and Arthur actually got along on the set of MAME. Sounds like neither one was the friendliest, most chill person in Hollywood.

Lucy and Bea remained good friends until Lucy's passing. She performed for Lucy at her Kennedy Center Honor. Lucy was also good friends with Betty White.

She went to a second season taping of Golden Girls where she got a big ovation as she entered to find her seat.

by Anonymousreply 433July 30, 2021 4:36 PM

I always wondering why Lucy didn't guest star in GG (unless Gary talked her out of it)

by Anonymousreply 434July 30, 2021 4:47 PM

I can just hear her tar and nicotine laugh now, r433.

by Anonymousreply 435July 30, 2021 4:47 PM

Lucy would've been grand in the role of Sophia's suicidal friend (who was played by Geraldine Fitzgerald).

"I wanna kill myself. WAAAAAAAH!"

by Anonymousreply 436July 30, 2021 5:27 PM

Breaking news: They've arrived in Bent Fork

by Anonymousreply 437July 30, 2021 5:35 PM

A joy to walk by...

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by Anonymousreply 438July 30, 2021 5:46 PM

Teensy and Weensy just made their entrance! I *love* their dungarees and black pumps look.

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by Anonymousreply 439July 30, 2021 5:49 PM

Teensy and Weensy are svelte compared to the average American today.

by Anonymousreply 440July 31, 2021 1:19 AM

And they belong on the people you didn't know were still alive thread.

by Anonymousreply 441July 31, 2021 1:23 AM

Sorry, R441, but Teensy and Weensy are no longer shopping the Pig.

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by Anonymousreply 442July 31, 2021 1:32 AM

I didn't see a death date for them.

by Anonymousreply 443July 31, 2021 3:25 AM

R433 I wish some of Golden Girls had rubbed off on her. Life with Lucy would've been so much better if it was an ensemble, basically the Golden Girls twenty years in the future, set in a retirement home, where the people still have fun Lucy could still work with Gale, and maybe have brought along some other old war horses that were still kicking. It would've been more with the times, and more age appropriate. The best episode of Life with Lucy was the one where Audrey Meadows guest starred as her sister.

by Anonymousreply 444July 31, 2021 3:29 AM

I'd see them occasionally on sitcoms. They played the Twins on Maude who danced to HoneyBun with Rue. I also saw them on The Ropers as two sisters who get into a hot tub with Stanley.

by Anonymousreply 445July 31, 2021 4:43 AM

Did Lucille Ball also dye her snatch red?

by Anonymousreply 446July 31, 2021 5:29 AM

Lucy liked being in charge. She would have made a terrible guest star--guest on tv series often feel like outsiders. The regular cast is busy and can't really make them feel special. If she was a friend of one or two of them, that wouldn't automatically mean the others would like her. Her rep as a raving harpy would have preceded her.

by Anonymousreply 447July 31, 2021 12:22 PM

Aaron Spelling and the other producers of Life With Lucy tried to persuade Lucy to go with a modern approach a la Golden Girls or have a female sidekick and do a older Kate and Allie type show. Ball, however, was adamant in hiring her I Love Lucy writers and Gale Gordon and going down the slapstick route.

They were actually considering adding Audrey Meadows as a regular when the show was cancelled.

by Anonymousreply 448July 31, 2021 2:19 PM

In any case the show wouldn't have run for very long. Ball passed in 1989, and her last series was 1986. I guess it could have transitioned into Death with Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 449July 31, 2021 2:31 PM

After-Life With Lucy

by Anonymousreply 450July 31, 2021 2:38 PM

Geraldine Fitzgerald's cabaret act was really an act of terrorism, R436. Your comment made me think of what WILDCAT would have been like if it had starred Geraldine.

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by Anonymousreply 451July 31, 2021 3:40 PM

color footage

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by Anonymousreply 452July 31, 2021 4:50 PM

R449 She might not have died in 1989, if the series had lasted. Everything I've read seems to suggest the cancellation of the show contributed to her death. If she had had a hit show she would've probably lasted a few years longer. Lucy seems to have been the sort of performer that really got power from the applause and laughter of an audience.

by Anonymousreply 453July 31, 2021 4:56 PM

I can't imagine anyone, after a day of hard work, turn on the TV for a few laughs and be greeted with Lucy gradually turning into Bette Davis or Carol Channing.

by Anonymousreply 454July 31, 2021 5:29 PM

[quote] Was Lucille Ball really a horrible person?

Yes.

by Anonymousreply 455July 31, 2021 6:12 PM

Ugh R451. Sophia should have let her kill herself.

by Anonymousreply 456July 31, 2021 6:16 PM

I hated the occasional mawkish "special episodes" of GG. Suicide, drug addiction, gun control, anti-Semitism, chronic fatigue syndrome... yuck. This isn't Norman Lear, just do the comedy. The only one I can think of that I actually liked was Lois Nettleton as the "Lebanese" friend. LOL. That was okay.

by Anonymousreply 457July 31, 2021 6:22 PM

R428 that looks like DL icon, Diana Scarwid in a clown wig. It's uncanny

by Anonymousreply 458July 31, 2021 6:25 PM

"I can't imagine anyone, after a day of hard work, turn on the TV for a few laughs and be greeted with Lucy gradually turning into Bette Davis or Carol Channing."

*

Apparently they did, r454.

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by Anonymousreply 459July 31, 2021 7:01 PM

This was their Carol Channing doll, r458.

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by Anonymousreply 460July 31, 2021 7:03 PM

I have just skimmed through this thread and notice Harriet Nelson's name. When I was growing up you used to see Ozzie and Harriet reruns along with I Love Lucy, Father Knows Best, My 3 Sons etc. The others I still see making the rotations regularly or at least semi-regularly, but I cannot think of the last time I saw Ozzie and Harriet. I know Rickie was the teen idol, but as a kid, I was drawn to David (although not fully knowing why yet).

by Anonymousreply 461July 31, 2021 7:23 PM

A heart condition is a heart condition, R453. Applause does not "cure" it, contrary to those weary soap operas you're fond of.

Where are the Lucille defender who were all over the Lucy vs Lauren Bacall thread? Below:

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by Anonymousreply 462July 31, 2021 7:31 PM

Geraldine Fitzgerald is no Florence Foster Jenkins.

by Anonymousreply 463July 31, 2021 8:58 PM

Neither were Mrs. Miller, r463.

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by Anonymousreply 464July 31, 2021 9:04 PM

Is that a picture of Mrs. Miller, or Sada Thompson passing gas?

by Anonymousreply 465July 31, 2021 9:09 PM

Finding Lucy...

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by Anonymousreply 466July 31, 2021 9:24 PM

[R466] Oh, did Lucy also have a sprawling private ranch where she molested young boys while wearing Mickey Mouse pajamas?

by Anonymousreply 467July 31, 2021 9:26 PM

Her mother told her...

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by Anonymousreply 468July 31, 2021 11:33 PM

R468 Thanks, I don’t think I’ve seen the whole number before. I’m not sure that when Lucy did that number she had even the “five good notes” Cy Coleman said she had 20 years later during Wildcat. Does anyone know if the studios tried to help Lucy sing better, but it was hopeless, or did they not even try because she was mostly a B-movie actor and played comedy in musical numbers? It's quite striking how she talks the entire number and never really sings a note.

by Anonymousreply 469August 1, 2021 2:19 AM

MGM probably saw dancing lessons as something that would help with movement, singing lessons might have been rationed more. Perhaps they did invest when Lucy was in a musical, but it would take a lot to make a real singer out of Lucy. RKO was always in poor financial shape, despite their many musicals, they were mostly a B-picture lot. I'm guessing that singing and dancing lessons went to those with the potential to use them.

by Anonymousreply 470August 1, 2021 3:28 AM

So they put her in a Merman role and just dub her.

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by Anonymousreply 471August 1, 2021 3:34 AM

Lucy sang perfectly well on "Sweet Sue" but for some reason butchered "Sweet Adeline".

by Anonymousreply 472August 1, 2021 3:49 AM

R471: MGM had plenty of beauties. They probably were looking for someone who could be funny. They had beauties of all kinds--glamour, girl next door, etc. usually in duplicate or triplicate so that one on top didn't get too comfortable. They had her friend Ann Sothern, who had a certain B-movie glamor in her pre-hide behind the credenza days and who actually could sing.

by Anonymousreply 473August 1, 2021 3:52 AM

Now Ann deserved to do a Merman role.

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by Anonymousreply 474August 1, 2021 3:58 AM

R470 & R471 Thanks. I understand now why Lucy had to be dubbed in her later movies such as DuBarry was a Lady. It was kind of brilliant that Lucy’s vocal shortcomings were turned on their head and used to get laughs in I Love Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 475August 1, 2021 4:12 AM

R473 & R474 I hadn't realized how popular Ann Sothern was in movies until I learned that she made TEN Maisie films. They may not have been A-list blockbusters, but the movie-going public certainly loved Ann. I can understand why she was one of the few people Lucy respected enough to take criticism from. In fact, even though Desilu was involved in the production of The Ann Sothern TV show, it was a co-production with Ann’s production company, and her company was listed first on the credits. Ann did all that without a “Desi,” so that may be another reason Lucy respected Ann so much.

by Anonymousreply 476August 1, 2021 4:32 AM

[quote]Was Lucille Ball really a horrible person?

She took a shit in my dressing room

every single day until they finally cancelled "Here's Lucy" in 1974...

You can't imagine the smell, really just horrendous

by Anonymousreply 477August 1, 2021 4:35 AM

Sothern got burned with the producing partner in her first show, so she learned things the hard way. She also published songs, but had the advantage of a sister who also did that.

You can look to Robert Young and Donna Reed as people who ran their own shows before Lucy did, not to mention George Burns who produced other shows, pioneered live on film, etc. Reed had her husband, but everyone really looked to her. Young had a producing partner, but played an active role. These old B-movie types (and vaudevillians like Burns) never had the security to be prima donnas like the A-players so they had to be prepared, hit their marks and understand how a set worked.

by Anonymousreply 478August 1, 2021 12:13 PM

Forgotten today but in the late 1930s, RKO tried to give Lucy a recurring comic character, not unlike Ann Sothern's show girl Maisie at MGM, called Annabel Allison and her adventures as a B movie actress trying to salvage her career. Jack Oakie played her manager/agent. Only 2 films were made, both in 1938, The Affairs of Annabel and Annabel Takes a Tour.

You can definitely see the seeds of Lucy Ricardo in Annabel Allison.

by Anonymousreply 479August 1, 2021 12:51 PM

You can see Lucy Ricardo in "Stage Door", although she's a bit more hard bitten there Lucy never showed much originality and I suspect she knew that whatever silly musical comedy ambitions she might have had.

by Anonymousreply 480August 1, 2021 12:53 PM

I have never seen the Annabel films, r479. How is her chemistry with Oakie?

by Anonymousreply 481August 1, 2021 1:55 PM

A scene from Annabel Takes a Tour...

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by Anonymousreply 482August 1, 2021 2:24 PM

So and Sew

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by Anonymousreply 483August 1, 2021 2:31 PM

Do I look like a fucking psychologist?

by Anonymousreply 484August 1, 2021 2:33 PM

The Annabels were definite Bs (67-68 minutes running time). No info on the box office takes. The casts are filled with people I've never heard of. RKO mostly made Bs, so not surprising they tried to build a B character around her.

by Anonymousreply 485August 1, 2021 3:07 PM

[quote] It was kind of brilliant that Lucy’s vocal shortcomings were turned on their head and used to get laughs in I Love Lucy.

Agreed that it was brilliant at the time. But it was quite embarrassing when she later decided she was going to star in a Broadway musical (WILDCAT) and, even later, in a huge-budget movie adaptation of another (MAME).

by Anonymousreply 486August 1, 2021 5:20 PM

Lucy’s fab station wagon, she used this to go to the studio to shoot Life With Lucy.

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by Anonymousreply 487August 1, 2021 6:58 PM

What a horrible looking car, even for its tome.

by Anonymousreply 488August 1, 2021 7:23 PM

Lucy had such a great voice it could be used for anything:

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by Anonymousreply 489August 1, 2021 8:48 PM

I'm laughing at Lucy's GPS.

by Anonymousreply 490August 2, 2021 1:57 AM

I would absolutely use that GPS voice if it were available.

by Anonymousreply 491August 2, 2021 3:03 AM

[quote] Lucy had such a great voice it could be used for anything:

Like foghorns.

by Anonymousreply 492August 2, 2021 12:25 PM

The Punchy Players - of course. Last I looked at their YouTube channel, they hadn’t posted any videos in quite some time. So good.

by Anonymousreply 493August 2, 2021 3:28 PM

I call them the "Punching Down Players." Unfunny boomerschlock.

by Anonymousreply 494August 2, 2021 3:57 PM

Well, smell r494!

by Anonymousreply 495August 2, 2021 4:00 PM

Punchy Players are at their best when they don't have too many 'stars' and keep the stories simple. They can sometimes try too hard. Judy's Cream of Wheat and Lucy & Desi's "Breezin' Along With The Breeze" are the best. I had not been the GPS one with Lucy and its excellent.

by Anonymousreply 496August 2, 2021 4:40 PM

At least I bathe, which is more than I can say for R495. And the Punching Down Players are still not funny, just shills for an evil corporation.

by Anonymousreply 497August 2, 2021 4:52 PM

I love the way you hate it when I'm happy and you're not, r497.

by Anonymousreply 498August 2, 2021 5:05 PM

The Punchy Players are funny. I hadn't thought about it R496 but you're right, the videos are better with fewer stars, though I do like the Mary Poppins screen tests.

I also enjoy the Ann Miller/Judy ones (at the grocery store, hoarding, Ann's rant, the one with Hermes Pan), the Judy and Liza, the intro of the Leslie Caron Gigi outtakes, Audrey Airlines. the Judy GPS.

Some are less funny to me, but wow, those guys have a high batting average and I return to the videos again and again and they always brighten my day.

by Anonymousreply 499August 2, 2021 5:16 PM

Audrey Airlines was cringeworthy, especially after Mrs. Edwards wrecked her voice with her shitty technique. That doctor just hastened the inevitable.

by Anonymousreply 500August 2, 2021 5:19 PM

Angela Lansbury had nicer things to say about Lucy than she did about Ethel Merman in a newspaper interview I read with her in the 2010s. It was either the NYT or the WSJ, I can't remember which.

by Anonymousreply 501August 2, 2021 5:20 PM

I believe all that she said, r501, was that Merman wasn't an actress. I suppose that's arguable, but I'm in the camp that wouldn't argue about it.

by Anonymousreply 502August 2, 2021 5:25 PM

Angela must have known Lucy from their old MGM days. Wasn't she in one of the back rows in the infamous anniversary phot while Lucy took a front row seat?

by Anonymousreply 503August 2, 2021 6:09 PM

Sometimes MGM seated more or less alphabetically for those photos, sometimes now.

They didn't observe the alphabetical rule for the final one, taken in 1954, which neither Ball nor Lansbury are in.

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by Anonymousreply 504August 2, 2021 6:21 PM

Lucy was long gone from MGM in 1954, r504. I think Angela probably was, too.

by Anonymousreply 505August 2, 2021 6:26 PM

Dore Schary I guess decided not to be in the photo. You can see Hit the Deck, Jupiter's Darling, The Glass Slipper, Kismet, and Deep in my Heart were in production. 1955 was the last year where MGM had a number of musical releases.

by Anonymousreply 506August 2, 2021 7:22 PM

Zero is a number, R506.

by Anonymousreply 507August 2, 2021 7:28 PM

In the MGM photo at r5054, who is handsome Carlos Thompson in the prominent first row position with the blue socks? I've never heard of him.

by Anonymousreply 508August 2, 2021 7:46 PM

Ever hear of Wiki, r508?

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by Anonymousreply 509August 2, 2021 7:49 PM

Why do I need Wiki, r509, when I've got you at my fingertips ready to do my every bidding?

Thanks, doll.

by Anonymousreply 510August 2, 2021 7:52 PM

I did it for my own edification, r510, and didn't mind exposing you as the definition of sloth that you are.

by Anonymousreply 511August 2, 2021 7:57 PM

Oh yes, R505. Lucille was gone from Metro not long after the war, and Lansbury stayed 8 years, till 1952, as her films there got worse and worse and less prestigious. Ball did nine films there released between 1943-1946.

What's interesting about that '54 photo is who was still around. Debbie Reynolds and Cyd Charisse were two of the very, very few who stayed and worked out to the end of their last seven-year contracts. Robert Taylor and Clark Gable had some of the longest tenures in terms of total number of years: 24. Crawford was there nearly 20 years, 1924-43. Garland 15 years, 1935-50. Lana Turner 1937-56, 19 years. Even a quintessential MGM star like Van Johnson was only there for 12 years--but with tastes in films changing every five years or so, and as many movies as people made then, all the major MGM stars were there for a generation.

by Anonymousreply 512August 2, 2021 9:01 PM

[quote] Lucy was long gone from MGM in 1954, [R504]. I think Angela probably was, too.

I'm not sure if Lucy and Desi signed any sort of contract in 1954, but that is the year MGM released one of Lucy's best pictures The Long, Long Trailer. It was the one, that made her a movie A-lister, that lasted until Mame. They might not be classics but she never appeared in a low budget B again, until her big dramatic turn on a tv movie.

by Anonymousreply 513August 2, 2021 9:48 PM

MGM would have been stupid not to, r513, as the TV show was a big hit.

by Anonymousreply 514August 2, 2021 9:52 PM

^To be fair, MGM did take a risk at that point with the uncertainty if they'd pay to see the two when they got them for free in their living rooms.

by Anonymousreply 515August 2, 2021 9:55 PM

But I think the big difference, r515, was that in those days, I LOVE LUCY wasn't on constant repeat in reruns 24/7.

So the millions who loved Lucy and Desi were certainly craving for more than the 40 weeks of 1/2 hour shows the series generated, which had only been on the air for a year or two.

by Anonymousreply 516August 2, 2021 11:23 PM

R516 Also, it was in Technicolor, so they could see her red hair.

by Anonymousreply 517August 2, 2021 11:25 PM

But they didn't know that at the time, r516. I seriously doubt they would have gone for it if Lucille didn't have her movie resume...such that it was.

by Anonymousreply 518August 2, 2021 11:25 PM

It wasn't just Angela Lansbury whose MGM films got worse in the 1950s. Most of the MGM product was decidedly inferior to the previous 2 decades.

MGM was no longer the premier Hollywood studio. Dore Schary wasn't interested in the LB Mayer aesthetic of family melodramas and musicals and wasn't able to give the studio a viable replacement aesthetic. Paramount kept going fairly successfully without contract players. Warner's branched intoiTV production with a whole new rostrum of young stars and Fox (2Oth Penitentiary Fox, lol) maintained a stable of stars and did very well, perhaps the best of all because of Zanuck's passion for quality scripts. And former 2nd rate studios Columbia and Universal surged ahead in the 1950s.

by Anonymousreply 519August 2, 2021 11:31 PM

They didn't know what at the time, r518? Are you saying MGM wouldn't have produced the LONG TRAILER film if Lucy hadn't previously been a movie star?

I think you're underestimating the enormous popularity of ILL and the public's craze to see Lucy and Desi in something else even if that they had to pay a couple of dollars for it. What was sly was the characters that they played were virtually the same as the Ricardos with different names. And yes, seeing them in Technicolor was probably a big plus.

by Anonymousreply 520August 2, 2021 11:36 PM

They didn't know for sure if people would pay to see them when they saw them weekly for free, r520. Lucy was a movie name so that made it more likely, but it still wasn't a sure bet. TV was new and even with the popularity of the TV show, nobody knew for sure.

by Anonymousreply 521August 3, 2021 12:09 AM

I thought it interesting that Lucy said in the 50’s that no matter what she wore, she always looked “hard”.

by Anonymousreply 522August 3, 2021 1:10 AM

By the 50s, all of the studios did independent producer deals or were willing to do distribution for films they didn't finance. MGM's involvement was likely a one-off of one of these kinds of deals. United Artists had pioneered the distribution only model and also supported independent producers. Columbia used these models to level the playing field once MGM and others lost their theaters and the cash they generated.

Lucy returning to RKO doesn't say much for either of them. She wasn't a consistent money maker for MGM. RKO was the weakest of the majors and financially in the worst shape. Winding up there in the first place would have been almost as bad as having spent more time at Columbia (which was at least well run). In the late 40s was controlled by Howard Hughes and thoroughly mismanaged going back to RKO was a bad sign for her and reflection of their inability to attract talent. Her other post MGM films were released by Columbia which often did short-term deals and Paramount (a Bob Hope film).

by Anonymousreply 523August 3, 2021 1:12 AM

She didn't go back to RKO after MGM. She did one more film for them as an independent actress.

by Anonymousreply 524August 3, 2021 2:44 AM

"Lucy said in the 50's that no matter what she wore, she always looked "hard"

Then wear nothing at all.

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by Anonymousreply 525August 3, 2021 3:17 AM

SiriusXM has announced that they will be presenting all the extant episodes of Let’s Talk to Lucy, Lucy’s 1964-1965 talk show from CBS Radio.

In the midst of starring on The Lucy Show and serving as president of Desilu, Lucy undertook this new project. 240 ten minute episodes were produced. Starting Thursday, SiriusXM will play the shows on Channel 104 of their satellite radio service. After a three week run, all the episodes will be available as downloadable podcasts. SiriusXM will also present current day stars including Amy Poehler, Rosie O’Donnell, Ron Howard, Tiffany Haddish, and Debra Messing answering questions originally posed by Lucy on the series. Stars interviewed by Lucy on Let’s Talk to Lucy include Lucy Show compatriots Vivian Vance, Gale Gordon, Candy Moore, and Ann Sothern; as well as legends like Barbra Streisand, Julie Andrews, Frank Sinatra, Gene Kelly, Dean Martin, Bing Crosby, Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, Carol Burnett, Danny Kaye, Red Skelton, and Eva Marie Saint.

by Anonymousreply 526August 3, 2021 1:27 PM

"Amy Poehler, Rosie O’Donnell, Ron Howard, Tiffany Haddish, and Debra Messing answering questions originally posed by Lucy on the series" - really? Is that necessary?

by Anonymousreply 527August 3, 2021 3:41 PM

Lucy/Babs

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by Anonymousreply 528August 3, 2021 3:49 PM

Let's Talk To Lucy was something Gary could produce without too much effort or doing too much harm. Kept him busy.

by Anonymousreply 529August 3, 2021 4:08 PM

Despite not having a mid Atlantic accent, Lucille had such precise and crisp diction. I wonder if it was natural or the result of training.

by Anonymousreply 530August 3, 2021 4:59 PM

Training and observing, r530.

by Anonymousreply 531August 3, 2021 5:03 PM

Ball did attend the same dramatic school as Bette Davis. I'm sure diction was a major part of the curriculum.

by Anonymousreply 532August 3, 2021 5:11 PM

Well, they're in Hollywood. Lucy mentioned she and Ethel might go to Catalina and Pismo Beach. When was the last time you heard someone mention Pismo Beach? Anyway, it's the Lucy Gets Into Pictures episode.

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by Anonymousreply 533August 3, 2021 5:41 PM

If this doesn't make you laugh, you have no sense of humor.

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by Anonymousreply 534August 3, 2021 5:59 PM

R528, we already posted that. Read the thread, eh?

by Anonymousreply 535August 3, 2021 6:44 PM

Which post, r535?

by Anonymousreply 536August 3, 2021 6:52 PM

Though I know that's a spoof of countless showgirls descending staircase numbers it seems especially a jab at Minnelli's I'll Build a Staircase to Paradise from An American in Paris which was a huge hit a couple of years before and who directed The Long. Long Trailer.

by Anonymousreply 537August 3, 2021 6:55 PM

No, I don't think so, r537.

by Anonymousreply 538August 3, 2021 6:57 PM

Well then you've never seen an American in Paris. You should it's a great movie.

by Anonymousreply 539August 3, 2021 7:08 PM

I've never had an interest in seeing it, r539. Nothing against the movie.

by Anonymousreply 540August 3, 2021 7:15 PM

[quote]"Amy Poehler, Rosie O’Donnell, Ron Howard, Tiffany Haddish, and Debra Messing answering questions originally posed by Lucy on the series" - really? Is that necessary?

No, but I'm interested in the actual episodes.

by Anonymousreply 541August 3, 2021 8:24 PM

r537: I'm sure Lucy recalled her wordless appearance in MGM's "Ziegfeld Follies" (1946) . For a second or two you can see how uncertain she is standing on the horse.

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by Anonymousreply 542August 4, 2021 1:18 AM

Not sure about the horse (or the headdress) but Lucy is clearly scared to death of wielding that bull whip.

by Anonymousreply 543August 4, 2021 1:22 AM

Like so many actresses of her generation, Lucy started out as a very pretty young woman but then got totally hard-looking as she aged. Davis, Crawford, Stanwyck and others were the same.

by Anonymousreply 544August 4, 2021 1:56 AM

Stanwyck softened with the white hair.

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by Anonymousreply 545August 4, 2021 2:00 AM

For every hardened lady there was a softened lady:

Loretta Young

Olivia de Haviland

Joan Fontaine

Doris Day

Eva Marie Saint

Joanne Woodward

Well, now I'm grasping at straws....

by Anonymousreply 546August 4, 2021 2:22 AM

Loretta Young was beautiful (even old), r546, your others were merely pretty.

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by Anonymousreply 547August 4, 2021 2:35 AM

R542 Yes she does look a bit uncomfortable on that horse. Being a model and a showgirl were not among her favorite things.

by Anonymousreply 548August 4, 2021 8:49 AM

Even as a child during her "Here's Lucy" days, it wasn't difficult to read between the lines in any interview or article about her. She was not a pleasant person. She wore it on her face, in her voice, in her carriage: it wouldn't take much to land on her bad side (where you had probably started) and would take a lifetime of servitude to remain on her good side — and even then, you would come up well short.

by Anonymousreply 549August 4, 2021 10:35 AM

Debra Messing fancies herself the heir to Lucy. She's not even the heir to Bonnie Franklin.

by Anonymousreply 550August 4, 2021 11:34 AM

r547, my point was this is a list of Golden Age actresses who did not harden with age.

by Anonymousreply 551August 4, 2021 12:48 PM

[quote]If this doesn't make you laugh, you have no sense of humor.

Buck could've handled the headdress.

by Anonymousreply 552August 4, 2021 12:55 PM

r548: Lucy was often the only MGM star featured on the posters for the film - looking nothing like she appears in the original film of course - but her single appearance in it shows how ambivalent MGM was about her. She has not a word of dialogue but just swirls around the panther girls cracking her whip. She's back to where she started as a glorified Goldwyn Girl.

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by Anonymousreply 553August 4, 2021 1:22 PM

[quote] Debra Messing fancies herself the heir to Lucy.

She is wrong the only two comedic leading ladies from the 90s/00s that came close to Lucy was Fran Dresher and Reba.

by Anonymousreply 554August 4, 2021 5:07 PM

r554 No one has ever heard of Reba outside the US, and yes, right, The Nanny was dumb, which Lucy's shows were kinda as well, plus even less educated, and Will and Grace was neither, so there is a fitting; but phhh, The Nanny wasn't close to as grand as Will and Grace.

by Anonymousreply 555August 4, 2021 5:19 PM

Oh, I see now, r551. Still, it's a matter of bone structure. None of those ladies started out with the classic cheekbones/jawline that would harden with age.

by Anonymousreply 556August 4, 2021 5:46 PM

MGM wanted her because she was a looker.

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by Anonymousreply 557August 4, 2021 5:58 PM

The only real heir to Lucy who got her personal stamp of approval was John Ritter. Lucy even said Three's Company was her favorite show on television.

No one else come close.

by Anonymousreply 558August 4, 2021 6:03 PM

I can't look at Lucy anymore without being bothered by how she (they) drew her eyebrows 2" above her eyes. It's much more disturbing than the lipstick.

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by Anonymousreply 559August 4, 2021 6:08 PM

Creating a false upper lip with lipstick was de rigeur in the 1920s-1950s.

But I was watching a Bette Davis film the other night on TCM ALL THAT HEAVEN ALLOWS and was fascinated how the young Bette did her upper lip with NO cupid's bow at all. It was one continuous line. The lip peaked rather than dipped at the center. Was that unusual back then?

by Anonymousreply 560August 4, 2021 6:34 PM

I know, R560. Lucy's still looks creepy.

by Anonymousreply 561August 4, 2021 7:10 PM

R555 the sitcom Reba has aired in over 30 countries…so I’m sure there are those outside the US that have heard of her and her show.

by Anonymousreply 562August 4, 2021 8:24 PM

Reba ran in Thailand when I was working there.

by Anonymousreply 563August 4, 2021 8:42 PM

Did she place, r563?

by Anonymousreply 564August 4, 2021 8:49 PM

Reba is more like Minnie Pearl than Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 565August 4, 2021 9:26 PM

Reba=Judy Canova

by Anonymousreply 566August 4, 2021 9:30 PM

She didn’t play a hillbilly on Reba, she was a typical suburbanite, three kids, divorced from a dentist…some of you people just can’t get past a drawl or twang can you?

by Anonymousreply 567August 4, 2021 9:45 PM

What happened to that drunken slut, Brett Butler?

by Anonymousreply 568August 4, 2021 9:47 PM

[quote]Creating a false upper lip with lipstick was de rigeur in the 1920s-1950s.

or the 1980's.

by Anonymousreply 569August 4, 2021 10:33 PM

[quote][R554] No one has ever heard of Reba outside the US, and yes, right, The Nanny was dumb, which Lucy's shows were kinda as well, plus even less educated, and Will and Grace was neither, so there is a fitting; but phhh, The Nanny wasn't close to as grand as Will and Grace.

Are you kidding me? [italic]Will & Grace[/italic] might be one of the worst things to happen to gay people and to TV, and the only thing grand about it is grand larceny of 12 years of TV we can never get back. I can't believe anyone thought that embarrassing attempt at an homage to [italic]I Love Lucy[/italic] was anything other than that; an embarrassment. That show never even reached the level of [italic]Here's Lucy[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 570August 5, 2021 3:31 AM

[quote] MGM wanted her because she was a looker. You misspelled hooker.

by Anonymousreply 571August 5, 2021 11:41 AM

The Nanny was an homage to a lot of shows. That's why it seemed so old fashioned, but some episodes used all that to their advantage.

George and Gracie did the wacky wife and the partner in crime neighbor before ILL/My Favorite Husband. It's formula that often works and probably goes back to radio. The variant is making the neighbor wacky and the spouse sane.

by Anonymousreply 572August 5, 2021 12:16 PM

Bette wasn't in All That Heaven Allows, r560. Did you mean All This and Heaven Too?

There is a little bit of a dip in her lipstick, I think from the natural dip in the center.

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by Anonymousreply 573August 5, 2021 12:25 PM

Oooops. You're right, I got the title wrong. Thanks.

I wish your photo of Bette was a closeup. I think it would be better evidence of her odd lip line.

by Anonymousreply 574August 5, 2021 1:03 PM

Burns and Allen go back to vaudeville before radio.

by Anonymousreply 575August 5, 2021 1:37 PM

But not with a neighbor.

by Anonymousreply 576August 5, 2021 1:52 PM

That's fabulous R88...very nice.

by Anonymousreply 577August 5, 2021 2:57 PM

If Will & Grace might be one of the worst things to happen to gay people and to TV, how about Modern Family?

by Anonymousreply 578August 5, 2021 2:59 PM

Watching right now...

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by Anonymousreply 579August 5, 2021 5:54 PM

Decades TV is strip running ILL right now. Lucy and Ethel just agreed to sing Cole Porter's Friendship on TV for a local PTA special.

Rubbing my hands but I'm not sure I'm in the right thread.

by Anonymousreply 580August 9, 2021 1:51 AM

The midnight TV special was for the local afternoon Fine Arts League, not the PTA. But thanks for the heads up.

by Anonymousreply 581August 9, 2021 2:01 AM

Barbara Jean was the heir apparent to Lucy. But, like, fat Barbara Jean - not skinny Barbara Jean.

by Anonymousreply 582August 9, 2021 2:02 AM

Oh, Lord, the ILL episode is over and Decades TV has witched to The Lucy Show.

Back to reruns of The Ed Sullivan Show.

by Anonymousreply 583August 9, 2021 2:04 AM

They should do a revival of Mame on Broadway with Catherine O'Hara as Lucille Ball as Mame

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by Anonymousreply 584August 11, 2021 8:20 AM

Catherine O'Hara is a national treasure. Unfortunately that nation is Canada, but still.

by Anonymousreply 585August 11, 2021 10:37 PM

O'Hara lives in LA

by Anonymousreply 586August 12, 2021 2:28 AM

R586 - But she's Canadian, dear.

by Anonymousreply 587August 12, 2021 2:34 AM

With US citizenship. Your Canadian passive-aggressiveness is not a good look for you.

by Anonymousreply 588August 12, 2021 2:35 AM

Your pedantic lack of humor is not a good look on anyone, dear. Or are you just obtuse?

by Anonymousreply 589August 12, 2021 11:57 AM

[quote]She wanted kids and couldn't have them until she was over 40.

Couldn't? Hence the abortions.

by Anonymousreply 590August 13, 2021 4:34 PM

[quote]some of you people just can’t get past a drawl or twang can you?

Not me, R567. I find it incredibly sexy

by Anonymousreply 591August 14, 2021 6:54 AM

Wanted to add, to r555, that I think it's clear that Lucille Ball is the Queen of Television and I Love Lucy is the grandest sitcom in history. She did have a dynasty, even much moreso than Mary Tyler Moore, which will have helped her get along better in TV and radio than in the dumber, more oversexed and immoral and less educated movies. Co-leading the probably greatest TV production studio in history also indicates she had book-smarts and not just street-smarts.

by Anonymousreply 592August 14, 2021 7:19 AM

What are you babbling about?

by Anonymousreply 593August 14, 2021 8:57 AM

Can we not get to 600 finally?

by Anonymousreply 594August 20, 2021 12:01 PM

Threads about ME would hit 600 in one day. Jealous because you couldn't have Desi Jr all to yourself? Choke on it, you uppity bitch!

by Anonymousreply 595August 20, 2021 12:04 PM

What did Patty and Liza see in teenaged Desi? Hmmmm?

by Anonymousreply 596August 20, 2021 12:06 PM

He had an enormoush penish that really stretched out my pushy for daysh. It wash fabouloush.

by Anonymousreply 597August 20, 2021 12:08 PM

Here's a little article about Desi Jr. I didn't know he knocked up a girl when he was 15. He was a looker.

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by Anonymousreply 598August 20, 2021 12:22 PM

Desi Jr sure was dreamy.....

by Anonymousreply 599August 20, 2021 1:02 PM

Desi Jr sure was dreamy.....and 5'7" tall

by Anonymousreply 600August 20, 2021 1:18 PM
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