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Was Lucille Ball really a horrible person?

Someone on the TV Characters You Can't Stand thread mentioned that Lucille Ball was a terrible person.

It's been many years since I read a Lucy bio, so perhaps I am forgetting some key details, but was she really that bad? (Coffee-thrown-at-fight-attendant incidents notwithstanding, of course.) Sure, she was a perfectionist, a control freak, and not naturally funny, but a horrible person?

DL, educate me.

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by Anonymousreply 329Last Wednesday at 4:17 PM

She could have been worse, but Gary wouldn't let her

by Anonymousreply 107/13/2021

She was a CUNT!

by Anonymousreply 207/13/2021

On another thread someone mentioned how nice Ball was to Rob Lowe back stage during the 1989 Oscar fiasco. Ricki Lake had a different experience:

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by Anonymousreply 307/13/2021

She was a heavy drinker in her latter years, and seems to have become quite hardened and bitter. Not an evil person, but a sympathetic and warm one? No.

by Anonymousreply 407/13/2021

Geez Lucy was basically on her deathbed at the 1989 oscars, passing just a month later. I would have been an asshole to Ricki Lake, too.

She was not a “terrible person,” just a sad, humorless machine like most comediennes. She never got over her divorce and she never really wanted to run a studio.

by Anonymousreply 507/13/2021

She wasn’t likable. I remember watching E! Mysteries & Scandals/ True Hollywood Story, back in the day, and many of her staff seemed to favor Desi over her. They all described her as cold and controlling. They all agreed that Desi was the funny one (in spite of his drinking and womanizing) and that Lucy often seemed miserable and frigid.

by Anonymousreply 607/13/2021

Wasn’t there some story out there about star crossed lovers Patty Duke and Desi Jr. being kept from each other?

by Anonymousreply 707/13/2021

She viewed herself as a comic actress, not a comedienne and she really wasn't very funny in unscripted settings like talk shows.

She clung to the familiar as time went on and her shows became museum pieces of old schtick. Many of her writers went on to write for more contemporary sitcoms, so clearly they weren't holding her back. She also seemed bitter that she never had a bigger career even though it was obvious that her range was limited and she couldn't sing.

by Anonymousreply 807/13/2021

I watched an interview - years ago - that just said she was a shrewd businesswoman, and not at all a "wacky" character like in her shows. It suggested that she wasn't mean at all, just cold, and Type-A control freak.

by Anonymousreply 907/13/2021

She wasn't that great a business person. Desilu returned to profitability under her watch because they all but quit making pilots and mostly ran as a rental lot. She was not very actively involved when they did develop new shows. Herb Solow doesn't come out and say it but he obviously chose genres where she knew nothing when they finally began developing new shows, shortly before selling the studio.

by Anonymousreply 1007/13/2021

She did not like Madeline Kahn, which is a travesty. At the same time, her firing Kahn allowed for Lili von Shtupp.

by Anonymousreply 1107/13/2021

She ran with the mob in her youth and was prepared to become a drug mule. She was shot at too.

by Anonymousreply 1207/13/2021

R6, she was also a woman, so, ya know, she was seen as a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 1307/13/2021

She was a businesswoman. Of course they hated a powerful woman. They also probably believed she was the characters she portrayed. She was a hard worker. She knew her ass would be blamed if something went wrong. She did however know all the crew by name on the set of I Love Lucy and remembered to thank them. She also extended herself to the guy who played Little Ricky decades later when he had kids.

There is that story that she embarrassed the actress that played her daughter on The Lucy Show, making a bunch of dirty jokes to her constantly.

Lucy was an outspoken supporter of gay right. So cut her some slack.

by Anonymousreply 1407/13/2021

She got them to stop those Hollywood house yours which is ironic considering that Lucy episode. lol

by Anonymousreply 1507/13/2021

Part of a trifecta of gay or gay-friendly TV-movies of the time around 1990 and mid 90s, 'Rock Hudson' and 'Breaking the Surface: The Greg Louganis Story' being the others.

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by Anonymousreply 1607/13/2021

I think I read even her mother told her she was a bitch. She responded 'only when I'm at work.' And her mother replied 'But that's when people see you.'

When her daughter Lucie is interviewed and talking about her she always seems ambivalent about her mother sometimes with moments of pain crossing her face.

by Anonymousreply 1707/13/2021

"You call *this* HOT???"

by Anonymousreply 1807/13/2021

Yeah she was cold but I read she got it from her mother who also was sort of hardened. She & Vivian had a love/hate relationship. I remember reading that on I Love Lucy she had it put in Vivian's contract that she was to be over weight and dressed dowdy so she wouldn't upstage Lucy. During one of their arguments when Lucy was pregnant Vivian was heard to say "I'd tell you to go fuck yourself but Desi already did that"

I think Lucy respected that about Vivian b/c she kept her around.

by Anonymousreply 1907/13/2021

I find the Lucy/Vivian friendship fascinating, r19. But I also sense it was somewhat one-sided, with Lucy feeling closer to Viv than Viv ever felt to Lucy

by Anonymousreply 2007/13/2021

[quote]She also seemed bitter that she never had a bigger career.

Yeah, that's it.

by Anonymousreply 2107/13/2021

No, they both cared for each other a great deal. Watch this 1975 Dinah clip.

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by Anonymousreply 2207/13/2021

Well she never raped or murdered anyone, so she was better than many people in the business.

by Anonymousreply 2307/13/2021

r22 Vivian had several sisters whom she stayed close with throughout her life. Lucy didn't have an equivalent, and so I can see how Lucy felt closer to Viv than the other way around. Viv's mother was a difficult woman which gave her insight into how to deal with women like Lucy. Interestingly, too, I don't think they were particularly close during the ILL years. Viv's possessive husband at the time discouraged her from fraternizing with Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 2407/13/2021

The contract clause about being overweight was a joke that became an urban myth.

Lucy had members of her family around her and on the Desilu payroll. By some reports, Desi never cared for her brother who served as road manager for his band (i.e., keeping an eye on Desi) and wound up on the Desilu board. He later went into real estate and owned several businesses.

by Anonymousreply 2507/13/2021

Well R24, I think I'll believe my eyes rather than some anonymous person on a forum who claims to have great insight into their relationship.

But thanks for playing. Johnnie, tell him what he's won.

by Anonymousreply 2607/13/2021

Well, there’s this…

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by Anonymousreply 2707/13/2021

It's a low bar r23

by Anonymousreply 2807/13/2021

Well that's quite a saga Ethel Mae. Troubling yet inspiring.

by Anonymousreply 2907/13/2021

[quote] I remember reading that on I Love Lucy she had it put in Vivian's contract that she was to be over weight and dressed dowdy so she wouldn't upstage Lucy.

That’s pretty much a joke they had. Vivian made a surprise appearance on some talk show Lucy was on and read it to her. It’s on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 3007/14/2021

Barbara Eden loved Lucy.

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by Anonymousreply 3107/14/2021

R25, I guess that was written into the show as Fred became Ricky’s band manager.

by Anonymousreply 3207/14/2021

There is a story that claims during the filming of Lucy Calls the President, Vivian -- who was recovering from a stroke and battling cancer, iirc -- asked Lucy which dress she should wear. Lucy replied something along the lines of, "What does it matter? You look like a cow either way!"

by Anonymousreply 3307/14/2021

Eden has dined out out on that story (the real one in R31's link) forever. Lucy probably did that with all the showgirls and I'll bet it's one reason Ricky's act became less and less a part of the premise of the show over time.

by Anonymousreply 3407/14/2021

She couldn’t have been all that bad. Shanann Watts copied her eyebrow designs.

by Anonymousreply 3507/14/2021

I worked at Paramount post Desilu and I always heard Lucy was a pretty complex person. She'd hard a horrible childhood and multiple miscarriages that damaged her. Word was she HATED running the studio, but with Desi's drinking becoming a real problem (making the papers), she had to step in. She just jumped in and did what had to be done after years of letting Desi run everything. She did keep alot of the people he hired along, and he had a real knack for spotting talent.

Lucy was tough to crack, but when you did, she was venomously loyal and generous. She wasn't a funny lady, but I think she had a healthy (and somewhat raunchy) sense of humor offstage.

The one who was really fun was America's favorite sitcom mom, Harriett Nelson. She loved to have fun, have some drinks, and spend time with her gays.

by Anonymousreply 3607/14/2021

I would’ve love to have hung out with Harriet she just seemed like a fun person.

One thing about Lucy is that she was loyal, even when she shouldn’t have been. When she was doing Life With Lucy, she brought back all the people still alive that had worked on her earlier shows, even though they weren’t up to it anymore. The cast has said they had to scream their lines because the sound guy, who had been with her since I Love Lucy, was practically deaf. When the show was cancelled it is said she was upset over two things, one she thought we, the public, didn’t love her anymore, and secondly she felt she had failed and all those people were out of a job because she failed.

Lucy, I’m sure could be a bitch, and I don’t begrudge her that. She really had to fight her way to the top. And the joy she brought, and continues to bring to the world makes up for her bitchiness. I will always LOVE Lucy!

by Anonymousreply 3707/14/2021

Of course she wasn't a horrible person. People just want her to have been one because they like to hate anyone and especially because if she wasn't anything like Lucy Ricardo, she had to heve been a rotten human being.

She cared for a lot of people. She repeatedly hired the same people throughout her TV career, appreciating their talents and treating them like family. She was fucked over by Desi but she always loved him and was totally blunt about his fuckery but also always said she would always care about him. She's always rumored to have feuded with Vivian Vance but they were lifelong friends.

Lucie Arnaz, her daughter, describes her as "businesslike and responsible" and "nothing AT ALL like Lucy" in this interview. But she says it with an affectionate smirk and she sounds like she cared for her mother. She describes her as running the home like a business and, because she worked so much, racked with guilt and worrying about how the children were being taken care of. Does that sound like a horrible person? Not to me.

Lucille had a traumatic childhood and she was one of those poor people who was just determined as fuck to become a success, and so she did. But life didn't work out exactly how she'd hoped. She was a successful working film actress but never a star until she slummed it on TV. She was obsessively in love with Desi and he was a serial cheater. She wanted kids and couldn't have them until she was over 40. And then, as mentioned above, she happened into being the boss of a major TV studio and she didn't really want to do that. But she was responsible to her commitments and to the people in her life and so she did it.

Lucie Arnaz also talks in interviews about how incredibly talented and disciplined her mother was as an actress. It sounds like she admired her mother while accepting her as not a warm, snuggly mom.

Lucie speaks more warmly of her father's personality and yes, everyone involved with I Love Lucy and Desilu—including Lucille Ball to her dying day—insists that Desi was hilarious, a brilliant TV producer, and a brilliant businessman. Lucille acknowledged all that and she stuck by Desi and opened doors for him. He had a more affable personality and was more innovative, but that doesn't make her a person of poor character; it just means Desi was always overlooked.

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by Anonymousreply 3807/14/2021

I'm sure she's an enchantingly sweet woman. and a credit to the entire human race, but does Lucie do anything EXCEPT talk about her parents? Is that her only job?

by Anonymousreply 3907/14/2021

I think Lucille and Desi must have been good parents based on how sensible and reasonable their daughter seems. She's not bitter at all; she's empathetic, and both of her parents had major flaws, but she doesn't hold it against them.

Just before the 5:00 mark here, Lucie Arnaz says that she felt closer to her father "but I wasn't allowed to be. I was alwyas being told what a bad person he was." And then she says, "No, that's not fair! Not a bad person, but 'that poor soul.' You know, the poor soul, he can't get his life together."

She calls her mother a control freak and says "she loved us in the only way she knew how."

That's a far cry from Mommie Dearest.

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by Anonymousreply 4007/14/2021

[7] In the early seventies I had a friend who moonlighted as desk clerk at a hotel in Chicago suburb. He told that Pattie Duke was staying at that hotel because she was performing in the area. One night Lucy turned up demanding to know PD's room number. Then she went up to her room and read her the riot act .

by Anonymousreply 4107/14/2021

R39 People will be interested in people like Lucille Ball and Joan Rivers for many generations. Their children have spent their entire lives in their shadows and grew up to become expert personal historians and publicists for their parents' estates, which are businesses unto themselves. I don't think it's unusual. Lucie and Melissa could work in an office or they can make millions throughout their lives answering people's questions about their stellar parents.

by Anonymousreply 4207/14/2021

R36: We've flogged Lucy (justifiably) for a long time---tell us more about Harriet. I remember reading (repeatedly) that she liked a few drinks, but lost steam after Ozzie died. She must have been unhappy with what happened to Rick and his family.

by Anonymousreply 4307/14/2021

I think it’s time for Lucita: The Musical about the rise of a simple Hollywood chorus girl clawing her way to the top to become one of the most controlling and manipulative power brokers of TV culminating in her CEO speech on the balcony of the Desilu Studios as she simply takes control as you fade away. Ending with her Vaseline smeared camera lens production in the “You Must Love Me” role of Auntie Mame and lying her head down for the last time on a Stone Pillow.

by Anonymousreply 4407/14/2021

Was Harriet still living when Ricky died?

by Anonymousreply 4507/14/2021

She lived for a long time after Rick's death.

by Anonymousreply 4607/14/2021

Lucille had the best balls.

by Anonymousreply 4707/14/2021

The reviews for Mame bordered on the vicious and personal. No way would any of that fly today. They attacked everything about her. I truly think the reception of that film broke her heart. I think it was an interview with Gene Siskel where she broke down over how mean they were to her.

But give the woman credit. She maintained her beauty and her figure. She never went under the knife. She aged very nicely in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 4807/14/2021

R43 One thing about Harriet is she was a pretty good actress, but she didn't do too much outside of Ozzie and Harriet. I was surprised, but I really liked her turn in the made for TV disaster movie "Smash Up on Interstate 5." She played an elderly woman who was dying, and she and her husband played by Buddy Ebsen, were trying to get to the beach one last time. It really was a touching story. She must have liked the film because she also was part of the cast of the similar "Death Car on the Freeway."

by Anonymousreply 4907/14/2021

She aged horribly--too many cigs and cocktails. Mame was awful---the soft focus photography, her tone deaf singing and it went down hill from there. Too boring to be good camp.

by Anonymousreply 5007/14/2021

It's Today is good camp. And Bosom Buddies is just plain good despite those costumes.

by Anonymousreply 5107/14/2021

R39 you seemed to have missed all the threads and many thousands of posts about They're Playing Our Song.

by Anonymousreply 5207/14/2021

We forget she was huge in the 1950s when it must have been excruciatingly humiliating for your husband’s adulterous behavior to be widely known. This must have played a big part in her bitterness in her later years.

It’s amazing she wasn’t a 100% bitch 24/7 given everything.

by Anonymousreply 5307/14/2021

I knew an old Atlanta queen that was a Chesterfield guy and Arrow collar guy. He knew Lucy back in her Diane Belmont , Chesterfield girl days . He had tons of Christmas cards spanning decades from her. He said she was nicer before the Desi Break up hurt her .

by Anonymousreply 5407/14/2021

Yes! And while she was only ten years older than me, I outlived the bitch by fifteen years!

by Anonymousreply 5507/14/2021

Yes. When she played Mame Dennis.

by Anonymousreply 5607/14/2021

That's beautiful, r54

by Anonymousreply 5707/15/2021

I always loved this picture. Viv and Desi were friends too; Viv would often come to his defense in his fights with Lucy.

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by Anonymousreply 5807/15/2021

Johnny Carson kicked Cher out of his house in 1974 because she was laughing so hard at jokes Lucy was making under her breath about Richard Nixon. (He wouldn't have dared admonish Lucy.) From then on Cher only did the Tonight Show if there was a guest host, usually Joan Rivers.

by Anonymousreply 5907/15/2021

R59: Carson rarely went out for drinks or dinner with people and didn't entertain. He was notoriously very private and not even close to Ed McMahon.

by Anonymousreply 6007/15/2021

Johnny could be quite cordial with people he disliked having as guests like Bob Hope. He kept the A-listers for his nights. Rivers has talked about the B-listers she had to schedule--she came to understand why this was and used it as an opportunity to showcase people who weren't getting opportunities to appear with Johnny. Unfortunately, if they were hits, she's lose the ability to schedule them to Johnny.

by Anonymousreply 6107/15/2021

R60 what is your point? Johnny had people over for Nixon’s inauguration, Cher relayed this story several years ago in a vanity fair profile. Are you suggesting she’s lying?

by Anonymousreply 6207/15/2021

R31 I haven’t watched your clip yet, but I read aNarbara Edens REAL book. She said Lucy was very kind to her. Ann Southern on the other hand wanted her fired from the Ann Southern show because she was young a beautiful. Lucy wasn’t at all threatened by Barbara and even coached her on how to “steal” her scenes because it was good for the show.

by Anonymousreply 6307/15/2021

R60: In answer to your ultimate question---Yes.

by Anonymousreply 6407/15/2021

Desi and Viv were great friends. One of the other Lucy creatives saw her in a local production of Voice of the Turtle and went back, dragging Desi along. They'd been having all kinds of problems casting Ethel, but after the performance, Desi went backstage and offered her the part. Lucy, who didn't know her personally or professionally, didn't want her. Desi. as producer, overruled Lucy's objections and Viv got the part.

As for Harriet Nelson, I love her in Follow the Fleet, one of the best of the Astaire/Rogers films. She and Randolph Scott play the supporting leads and when Harriet first sees him, she looks directly into the camera and starts singing "Get Thee Behind Me, Satan."

by Anonymousreply 6507/15/2021

Harriet was a long-time friend of Ginger Rogers.

by Anonymousreply 6607/15/2021

r31...that is OBVIOUS bullshit. It contradicts absolutely everything known about Lucy, the show, and the atmosphere on set. The giveaway that it is madeup bullshit is the mention that Lucy entered the room in underwear and a bra and both were dirty. THIS NEVER HAPPENED. There is no way a star like Lucille Ball would meet with ANYONE looking like that. If she did, it would have been media fodder for YEARS.

by Anonymousreply 6707/15/2021

It's silly to expect that Lucille was Lucy. Does it matter? She left behind a joyous legacy.

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by Anonymousreply 6807/15/2021

It would kill ya to link it, r65?

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by Anonymousreply 6907/15/2021

Oh honey R67...you had to read that far to realize it was a work of fiction??

If you get a text from a dancing bear asking for your credit card number, go right ahead.

by Anonymousreply 7007/15/2021

Like many people, Lucy was complicated. She didn't seem particularly mean spirited or vicious, but she could be tough when she had to be. Cold and aloof might be the best words to describe her off screen. As others have said, she was very loyal to those she loved and her kids turned out ok and never wrote a Mommie Dearest type book, so she couldn't have been that bad.

Plus, she gave us one of the classic sitcoms of all time that's still funny to this day. I think she'll still be talked about even after most of us are long gone.

by Anonymousreply 7107/15/2021

As others have mentioned, Lucy wasn't a horrible person. She became more and more bitter and grouchy as the years went on.

But I think the main issue is that she was incredibly insecure. That started at an early age, so even her monumental success wasn't able to dislodge the belief that she wasn't good enough. Hence her (almost lifelong) need for both alcohol and those goddamn cigarettes, not to mention APPLAUSE.

by Anonymousreply 7207/15/2021

Well those Gary stories are starting to make more sense, she needed a real man to keep her in line.

by Anonymousreply 7307/15/2021

r73 = Phil Ober

by Anonymousreply 7407/15/2021

But Barbara Eden said that she walked around in dirty underwear and filmed lez porn. I take issue with R67. This did happen. I was working on a dinner theater production of 'Night, Mother in Akron with Eden and she said the same thing to me. She also said she found Elizabeth Patterson giving head to William Holden in a closet when she went to hang up her coat. She was wondering why Jess Oppenheimer, William Frawley and Richard Keith were hanging around outside of it.

by Anonymousreply 7507/15/2021

Barbara sounds like quite the name dropper.

by Anonymousreply 7607/15/2021

'night Mother in Akron was probably the height of her post-Jeannie career until Liz Montgomery died and she had more offers for tv movies.

by Anonymousreply 7707/15/2021

Lucy was really mean to Lens Dunham at an IHOP once, long ago.

by Anonymousreply 7807/15/2021

Let's get back to Harriet Nelson---she sounds more interesting than Lucy or Eden.

by Anonymousreply 7907/15/2021

Harriet was TV's favorite mom until Jane Wyatt and Barbara Billingsley came along. Donna Reed was an also ran and Peggy Wood as Mama was more like a grandmother.

by Anonymousreply 8007/15/2021

Danny Thomas loved Harriet Nelson because her bowel movements covered his glass coffee table.

by Anonymousreply 8107/15/2021

It was said that the only time Harriet was in the kitchen was on Ozzie & Harriet (one of her sons said that), often on a commercial for Hotpoint (with Mary Tyler Moore the elf) or Quaker Oats . She grew-up on the road except for some time in a convent.

by Anonymousreply 8207/15/2021

I knew Lucy's manicurist at Yuki Salon in Sunset Plaza. SHE was a horrible person.

by Anonymousreply 8307/15/2021

Don't forget Harriet was a bit of a wild child. Ozzie was her SECOND husband. She was married for three years (separated after one year) to an abusive Comedian Roy Sedley. She met Ozzie while married but separated from her first husband.

According to her wikipedia she started smoking at 13 and she hung out at the Cotton Club.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had smoked her fair share of wacky tobacky.

by Anonymousreply 8407/15/2021

Ozzie lead a popular big band leader in the 30s. Harriet was the band's singer. I've heard that she was, like many big band singers, the pass around bottom in the back of the tour bus.

by Anonymousreply 8507/15/2021

We have no idea what you are talking about.

by Anonymousreply 8607/15/2021

Her son David said when Ricky died she went into a mental decline and always said he was on tour. She never recovered.

by Anonymousreply 8707/15/2021

I've told this story before, on DL and elsewhere but it's my first hand experience with Lucy. Shortly before she died, Lucy's dress maker retired and my (female) friend was recommended to her. She had done some fitting with Lucy and I asked if I could meet her. To my surprise, she said yes. I felt that I had a bit of an in since I went to high school with the son of her writer, Madelyn Pugh Martin. He was an asshole, but so what. Anyways, I was there and Lucy rings the intercom and then there she was. Hair still Popsicle Orange and teased wildly. No makeup but large sunglasses and a relatively tasteful pantsuit. The voice was hilarious, so deep and damaged. I just introduced myself as a fan and Lucy couldn't have been more gracious. Although she had only been working with my friend for a brief time, she already liked and trusted her enough to give her her body model. Judging from that model, Lucy still had quite a body but she looked very slender in person. At any rate, during a lull in the fitting, Lucy sat down next to me and I pulled out a copy of the old Hollywood Kids magazine which I just scored from the Beverly Center and I heard Lucy loved gossip. I showed it to her and she began reading the infamous Page 2 which had the blind items. Lucy started reading it and began roaring with laughter. She asked me who one item was about (Bruce Willis) and said she believed it. After the fitting, Lucy asked me if I knew how to play backgammon. I said no and she said she was going to teach me. She gave me her phone number and told me to call her at the end of the week. Two days after that, Lucy went into the hospital and never came out. My opinion on her. She was a tough old broad who saw and experienced a lot but despite being cranky, she also liked to have a good time. I still have her handwritten note with her phone number on it.

by Anonymousreply 8807/15/2021

I wonder if Lucy and Harriet ever hung out, they were at RKO at the same time and they both appeared in Follow the Fleet.

by Anonymousreply 8907/15/2021

She wouldn't qualify as a horrible person, but she was not a pleasure to be around.

by Anonymousreply 9007/15/2021

R85: Ozzie ran the the most strait-laced band around. Early curfew, no carousing. They were an odd couple.

by Anonymousreply 9107/15/2021

No doubt both Ozzie and Harriet were clueless about the fact that Ricky was bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 9207/15/2021

EVERYBODY is clueless about the fact that Ricky was bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 9307/15/2021

R63: "I haven’t watched your clip yet, but I read aNarbara Edens REAL book."

by Anonymousreply 9407/15/2021

I adore Barboura Morris.

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by Anonymousreply 9507/15/2021

She never could get the smell of ropa vieja out of her cunt. Thank God no one expected me ever to go near it.

by Anonymousreply 9607/15/2021

R93 I wish I had been able to sample his bisexualness.

by Anonymousreply 9707/15/2021

Rick was bi?!? With whom, anybody famous?

by Anonymousreply 9807/16/2021

Can we please get back to the original topic!

by Anonymousreply 9907/16/2021

No one gets to be that successful without being an asshole once in a while.

by Anonymousreply 10007/16/2021

Mary Martin

by Anonymousreply 10107/16/2021

I proudly shit in her dressing room without flushing. Remember, I have noticeable trouble digesting raw vegetables.

by Anonymousreply 10207/16/2021

Lucy went through a lot of bad shit in her life. Of course she would've been bitter about things.

by Anonymousreply 10307/16/2021

r100 = Ellen

by Anonymousreply 10407/16/2021

R36 here. I dealt with Harriet a few times profesionally and we had some mutual friends in Laguna. I think she was quite the party girl in her youth, and I'd say she continued being out and about until right after Ricky died in 1985. I think her "reclusiveness" after Ozzie died was more professional. They were stereotyped as an act and without him, and I think the powers that be felt she didn't have much to offer.

While I can't say if she 100% remembered who I was, she always greeted me and everyone else like an old friend. In public, she was "Harriet Nelson" but in private she liked to gossip about Hollywood, make sex jokes, and smoke like a chimney. By the time I met her, she was just a fun old lady who didn't give a shit, and was enjoying her golden years living at the beach with a cocktail in her hand.

by Anonymousreply 10507/16/2021

R105 I'm glad she was enjoying life, at least until Rick's death.

by Anonymousreply 10607/16/2021

The documentary made by her daughter is fantastic and surprisingly moving. I think it’s called Lucy and Desi’s Home Movies.

She strikes me as someone who scary as hell in person because she was so no-nonsense, but not a bad person.

Richard Burton hated her, but his description in his diaries speaks more to her impatience with Liz and Dick’s louche work habits than her nastiness.

by Anonymousreply 10707/16/2021

[quote] Richard Burton hated her, but his description in his diaries speaks more to her impatience with Liz and Dick’s louche work habits than her nastiness.

I think that is what many equate with nastiness. They expected her to be ditzy Lucy but she was professional Lucille. She wanted the guests to know their lines and hit their marks.

by Anonymousreply 10807/16/2021

I believe Jack Benny was doing one of the Lucy show and she was so fanatical, dictatorial and anal about getting everything right Benny said, 'Will somebody tell her she's got the job!'

by Anonymousreply 10907/16/2021

“On the set of The Lucy Show she could be a holy terror,” said one of the technicians who watched Lucy in action. She summarily fired a New York Method actor who mumbled his lines; intimidated directors and cameramen; and sought confrontations, even when the star was as big as she was. When she gave Danny Kaye instructions on how to do humor, he snapped, “Just who the hell do you think you are?” Lucy shot back, “You’re full of shit, that’s who I am.” She was not smiling. Joan Blondell, who had known Lucy since their starlet days in the 1930s, had become a first-class film and stage comedienne in middle age. Lucy booked her on the show, then expressed dissatisfaction with the way Blondell read her lines. After one take, her friend Herb Kenwith reported, the director yelled “Cut” and “Lucille pulled an imaginary chain . . . as if flushing an old-fashioned toilet.” Blondell turned away but caught the tailend of the gesture. “ ‘What does that mean,’ she demanded. Lucille said, ‘It means that stunk!’ Joan looked her right in the eye and said, ‘Fuck you, Lucille Ball!’ and left. The studio audience was stunned. You didn’t hear words like that in those days.” Kaye and Lucy were to make up their differences in later years. Blondell never came back.

by Anonymousreply 11007/16/2021

I Love Lucy Bloopers and Rare Footage with Jack Benny

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by Anonymousreply 11107/16/2021

Aren't all women horrible people? Women who get angry, stand up for themselves, yell, have demands. Why won't they ever learn and just bow to the dominant male culture? Why???? The least they could do is stay young or quit working at 40 or act like drag queens (Cher, Bette, Liza). How dare they be human beings?

by Anonymousreply 11207/16/2021

[quote] She summarily fired a New York Method actor who mumbled his lines;

That really makes me love her.

by Anonymousreply 11307/16/2021

brunette

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by Anonymousreply 11407/16/2021

^ Wow, I now see that going "red" was a smart move. She looks terrible with dark hair

by Anonymousreply 11507/16/2021

[quote]She aged very nicely in Hollywood.

I wouldn't say she aged particularly well, the booze and cigarettes took their toll, but it wasn't as pronounced as it was with others.

Bette Davis's looks, for example, were ravaged by drinking and smoking. She didn't age well at all.

by Anonymousreply 11607/16/2021

I googled "John Dodds gay" just to find out the truth about Viv's last husband, and I found an all-Lucy and Lucy-related site that HAS to be run by someone from Datalounge.

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by Anonymousreply 11707/16/2021

R112 thinks that her misaligned and misdirected rhetorical technique works here. The point here is not your feigned "support" for the right of women the world over to be "humans," despite the cruelty of gay men.

Any real issues these business women in entertainment ever had were with their own egos, vulnerabilities and the pressures of dealing in a field ruled by straight-male power. If we're talking about women's personalities, foibles and occasional rottenness, it has nothing to do with your phoniness, laziness, shallowness, selfishness, ugliness and obesity.

Got it, cunt? Now go somewhere else and get fucked by a straight man who can't stand you and finds your pussy dry and cavernous.

And let him call you "Bat Girl" like the rest of your one-nighters have.

by Anonymousreply 11807/16/2021
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by Anonymousreply 11907/16/2021

“The worst thing you can do is suppress pain,” observed Lucie, “and she made a career out of suppressing all her pain.” Lately the miseries of childhood had been supplanted by the very public divorce and the assumption of responsibility Lucy had never wanted. To be famous, yes, she had always desired that, and to be respected. But to be responsible? That was something else, something unplanned and intimidating. But if that was the hand she had been dealt, so be it. She would intimidate back. Small wonder that director John Frankenheimer seriously considered Lucy for the part of Laurence Harvey’s lethal, oedipal mother in the thriller The Manchurian Candidate, before awarding it to Angela Lansbury.

On the set, a different person began to show up. Through the I Love Lucy years, the star had been difficult and querulous, particularly at first readings, seeking the right tempo and takes. But the persona she displayed at the filming of The Lucy Show was quite unlike what had gone before.

Vivian Vance, whom Lucy regarded as a reliable script doctor as well as a friend, was not immune to harsh critiques from the boss. For “Lucy and Viv Play Softball,” the two actresses were to choose up sides with a bat. Lucy kept throwing the bat in a way that made it impossible for her partner to catch it cleanly. “I could catch it right if you threw it right,” was the very reasonable complaint. Lucy walked off the set and Vivian started to cry. When Lucy returned she simply said, “Now, where were we?” refusing to recognize that anything untoward had taken place.

Others came under fire and were not let off so easily. Lucy made a point of challenging authority figures who were working for her. Candy Moore thought it was “unprofessional for her to yell at people in front of others—particularly the director Jack Donohue. It undermined his authority.” But that was Lucy’s aim. After the first day on any episode, everyone knew who was in charge.

The only actor immune from Lucy’s barbs was Gale Gordon, her old companion from radio days, when he had played innumerable haughty, pompous bosses. Gordon was written into The Lucy Show during its second season, in order to supply Lucy with the foil she lacked in the first thirty-three episodes. For the next five seasons he played Theodore J. Mooney, manager of the local bank and trustee of Lucy’s money. In a better part, or with different direction, Gordon might have given the show some depth and satiric bite. The skilled farceur had learned his trade from the cradle onward, watching his father, an American vaudeville quick-change artist, and his mother, a British actress. Born with a cleft palate, Gordon had worked on his diction until it was perfect for radio, and on his appearance until it was ideal for television. Lucy’s affection and regard for him were absolute, so much so that she failed to see the shortcomings of the Mooney character—or of the character actor who portrayed him.

In the first place, Gordon was never encouraged to vary his interpretation. “When you are at full tilt right from the beginning,” noted Maury Thompson, “you have nowhere to build to—nowhere to go.” When Gordon consulted Thompson about his acting, the camera coordinator leveled with him. “He said, ‘You know, other people have told me that. But I can’t seem to help myself. I’ll try to temper it.’ But he couldn’t.” In the second place, through no fault of his own Gordon was incapable of filling the vacuum left when Desi departed. “A husband is a funny authority figure,” Bob Schiller pointed out. “A banker, although certainly an authority figure, doesn’t have any of the warmth, humor, or sex of a husband.”

by Anonymousreply 12007/16/2021

[quote]Lucy walked off the set and Vivian started to cry.

Mary!!!!!!!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 12107/16/2021

[quote] “A husband is a funny authority figure,” Bob Schiller pointed out. “A banker, although certainly an authority figure, doesn’t have any of the warmth, humor, or sex of a husband.”

I think Lucy came to understand that. The relationship of the characters on The Lucy Show did improve once they made him her boss, because it was a relationship that made sense. He wasn't her banker/trustee but her boss. And, then in Here's Lucy, he was her boss/brother-in-law.

Gale was who Lucy wanted for Fred on I Love Lucy, along with Bea Benaderet as Ethel. Because they had played the older couple on her radio show My Favorite Husband. However, by the time I Love Lucy started Bea was contracted to do Burns and Allen and Gale to do Our Miss. Brooks.

It isn't usual for a comedian to develop one iconic double act type of relationship. But it is unusual to develop two iconic ones like Lucy did first with Viv and then with Gale. And, a lessor one with the delightful Mary Jane Croft, who also did great work with Harriet and Ozzie.

by Anonymousreply 12207/16/2021

Barbara Walter’s “An Interview of a Lifetime” with Lucy is really telling. You can see what love and respect Lucy still had for Desi - even if she didn’t want to admit it. Desi was clearly the love of Lucy’s life. No wonder Lucy was so bitter - they built something amazing together - if not for his cheating, she would have put up with his other demons and they probably always would have stayed together.

(Bonus points to Gary for sitting right there next to Lucy hearing her talk about her first marriage with Barbara. When Barbara was like “this man is sweet,” and Lucy responds, “the other man was sweet too!,” you know Gary was jealous. I’m surprised he approved of the interview.)

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by Anonymousreply 12307/16/2021

R123 To me it has to be hard on the subsequent spouse when they are married to one half of such an iconic divorced duo. Because in the minds of the public, the divorced couple will always be intertwined.

It is like in Country music, George Jones and Tammy Wynette divorced and married other people. George married a good woman that helped him to overcome his demons, just as it is said Desi's second wife tamed him. Thankfully, Lucy married a good man as well. Tammy, however, married a man that literally worked her to death. But, the fact is that no matter how long or loving those marriages might have been, in the minds of the public it was Lucy & Desi and George & Tammy. I would never want to be the spouse who married a person in those circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 12407/16/2021

Gary was a convenient man, r124.

by Anonymousreply 12507/16/2021

I can relate, r124.

by Anonymousreply 12607/16/2021

I remember reading many years ago in a magazine or column, maybe Liz Smith, that told the story of Lucy coming home and being told by her maid that a woman claiming to be her friend was waiting for he in her living room. Lucy walked in and bellowed to the fat woman, "Who the hell are you and why are you in my house?"

The guest laughed and said, "Don't you recognize me, Lucy? It's me, Yvonne DeCarlo!"

Lucy was shocked and replied, "Yvonne?? What the hell happened to you?"

by Anonymousreply 12707/16/2021

This is a fascinating 15 minute clip to watch. I think its easy to say and ask was Lucille a horrible person? The real question should be if she was how did she last so long? And why were so many so loyal for so long? If she was a man no one would have cared. We all aren't one thing. I think life did something to do her like it does to all of us. I think Desi hurt her terribly but she found a way to be friends with him and forgive him.

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by Anonymousreply 12807/16/2021

Gary was an opportunist in an ill-fitting toupee and wielding a big dick. He didn't care about Lucy's feelings for Desi since he didn't love her, just her money and power.

After Lucy died, Gary quickly remarried a younger chickie and lived a happy life in Palm Springs. He made a memorable cameo in Postcards from the Edge, playing Meryl Streep character's agent.

"I don't have a generation."

"Well you better get one."

by Anonymousreply 12907/16/2021

Lucy died in 89 and Gary remarried in 96. I would hardly call that quickly remarried. Yeah she looks like a real younger chickie.

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by Anonymousreply 13007/16/2021

Gary didn't seem to do much of anything except play golf.

by Anonymousreply 13107/16/2021

Zombie Gary Morton for President!

by Anonymousreply 13207/16/2021

LOL r132!

by Anonymousreply 13307/16/2021

aNarbara Edens and Lens Dunham are the Vera and Mame of our time. Mark my word.

by Anonymousreply 13407/16/2021

I can't believe that Barbara Eden story. Lucille Ball was old-school Hollywood and would never meet anyone in her underwear. She was always professionally dressed no matter what, like stars of her era tended to be.

by Anonymousreply 13507/16/2021

With aNamaria Alberghetti as Gooch, r134!

by Anonymousreply 13607/16/2021

Gary was scary brilliant as the Milton Berle character in Lenny.

by Anonymousreply 13707/16/2021

Is Gary still alive?

by Anonymousreply 13807/16/2021

He died in '99.

by Anonymousreply 13907/16/2021

From another Lucy thread:

[quote]Gary was the epitome of old men in the Seventies who wore horrible polyester pants and looked like they had just finished smelling up the bathroom something awful.

by Anonymousreply 14007/16/2021

That is so disgusting but dead on.

by Anonymousreply 14107/16/2021

Speaking of Lucille, Lucie Arnaz turns 70 today.

by Anonymousreply 14207/17/2021

Lol r140!

by Anonymousreply 14307/17/2021

Shocked that no one has recounted the stories of Joan Crawford's appearance on Here's Lucy!

by Anonymousreply 14407/17/2021

How great to read a Lucy thread that isn't all about bashing the woman.

Can someone please find and post a clip of Lucille Ball talking about her early days as a starlet on the RKO lot as well as shooting Stage Door and talking about young Kate Hepburn and Ginger Rogers' mother (who tutored Lucy) from a great RKO documentary? She looks wonderful there, none of her latter day harshness.

by Anonymousreply 14507/17/2021

Easy-peasy, r145.

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by Anonymousreply 14607/17/2021

I just LOVE Lucy in those clips from the RKO documentary! And Ginger and Kate, as well. Thanks for posting, r146.

by Anonymousreply 14707/17/2021

and...

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by Anonymousreply 14807/17/2021

The filming of STAGE DOOR in 1937 had to be shut down for a day when the young actresses, among them Katharine Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Eve Arden, Ann Miller and Lucille Ball, all heard the devastating news of the shocking and untimely death of MGM star Jean Harlow.

Also: Hepburn had it in her RKO contract that shooting on her films would be paused for a 1/2 hour for a daily late afternoon tea break. While they appreciated the break, some of the ladies on STAGE DOOR did not drink the tea.

We should discuss this film more often on DL.

by Anonymousreply 14907/17/2021

Annie: "Poor Jean Harlow (tapa-tapa-tapa), poor Jean Harlow (tapa-tapa-tapa)..."

by Anonymousreply 15007/17/2021

Gary was a rock to Lucy. She even admits in the Barbara Walters interview that Gary was the one who was really looking out and taking care of her the whole time, not vice versa.

L:ucy wanted stability when she married Gary. So much of the marriage to Desi had been them traveling, or working apart. By the time of ILL, they had two small children, but Lucy was the one staying home while Desi travelled, drank, gambled and slept around.

Gary was the complete opposite. He played golf while Lucy worked. At night they ate together. He was a devoted stepparent to her children. He did the occasional foray into showbiz, but he was perfectly content at be the husband to Lucy. I don't think that's loafing at all. And that's what Lucy needed, and most of all, desired after a very public, tumultuous marriage.

Most of all Lucy appreciated him and loved him deeply. There was the story of one of Lucy's friends coming over for dinner and seeing a full lobster being put on the table. "That's for Gary!" Lucy announced to the woman. "We're having hamburgers!"

by Anonymousreply 15107/17/2021

Gary was introduced to Lucy by her Broadway WILDCAT costar Paula Stewart and her husband comedian Jack Carter, who knew Gary was what Lucy needed.

by Anonymousreply 15207/17/2021

Actually, r151, that was Jane Connell when she went to meet Lucy. Lucy noting the lobster said "Oh that's for Gary, we're having leftovers."

by Anonymousreply 15307/17/2021

R151 that was my feeling too. I don’t think they had the raw passion she and Desi shared, but in their remarriages they both found what they needed that they couldn’t give to one another.

by Anonymousreply 15407/17/2021

Paula Stewart...

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by Anonymousreply 15507/17/2021

Hard to maintain raw passion for a guy in an awful toupee.

by Anonymousreply 15607/17/2021

Didn't Vivian dislike Gary? I think I read that on DL.

by Anonymousreply 15707/17/2021

Lucy loved Gary but she wasn't in love with him.

by Anonymousreply 15807/17/2021

Lucy with the love of her life.

No not Gary, Philip Morris.

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by Anonymousreply 15907/17/2021

The kid who played Ernie on My Three Sons had nothing but good things to say about her in his book. He appeared in an episode of The Lucy Show and said Vivian was not very pleasant to him . But he adored Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 16007/17/2021

R160 well that is understandable because I’ve also read that when her old nemesis Bill Frawley was on My Three Sons he would get the boys to go to the Lucy Show set and play pranks on Viv. I’m sure she counted everyone on that set as “his people.”

by Anonymousreply 16107/17/2021

Viv sounds like a DLer r160

by Anonymousreply 16207/17/2021

I’m sure she was tough as nails, with huge balls, pun intended. It’s why she did so well in show business.

by Anonymousreply 16307/17/2021

R105, so Granny Nelson was an addict. That explains both Ricky and his daughter Tracy's addictions...

by Anonymousreply 16407/17/2021

Didn't even Lucy know she was known as Lucille Balls.

by Anonymousreply 16507/17/2021

Imagine what it was like to be a woman in that business in that era. You had to be a tough bitch to survive. Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Marlene Dietrich and Barbara Stanwyck were the same.

by Anonymousreply 16607/17/2021

R88 The Hollywood Kids! I absolutely loved that little publication. Whatever happened to those guys? There must be a thread on them.

by Anonymousreply 16707/17/2021

As I have posted many times in the past my partner's parents were close friends with Gary and Lucy. His dad played golf once a week with Gary and they socialized with both of them all the time at the country club they were members of of. Lucy used to play board games with my partner. Lucy was not unlike others of their set. Rich and successful people are usually not easy to get along with. They were used to seeing their friends on TV and in the movies. His sister was friends with Lucy's daughter, they all visited the Mortons at their home in Beverly Hills, which was close to theirs. I have posted other stories they and my partner told me about Lucy and Gary. I wish I could have met Lucy but she was dead before I met my partner in 1990.

by Anonymousreply 16807/17/2021

So what were his impressions of Lucy? I don't recall reading your posts.

by Anonymousreply 16907/17/2021

She knew, r165...

*

Burnett recalled that Ball “told them in no uncertain terms what was wrong with that script and how to fix it…Then she took another drink and said, ‘And, kid, that’s when they put the ‘s’ on the end of my last name.’”

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by Anonymousreply 17007/17/2021

Aren't there stories of Lucy, late in life, and rather quietly, teaching some kind of comedy workshop at a acting school in LA? I remember some semi-famous comedian, who I think sadly died of AIDS, writing an article about it, after the fact.

But Lucy was always very much into mentoring the young.

As she talked about in that RKO documentary, she was a part of a small repertory company of young RKO actors, taken under the wing of Lela Rogers (Ginger's mom), who would appear in plays on the lot that directors and producers would be invited to see.

When Lucy and Desi created Desilu on the old RKO lots, she formed a rep company of young performers and created workshops for them to learn comedy and musical skills and she would then invite Hollywood execs to come see them, in the hope of developing new talent to star in TV series Desilu might produce. Robert (TCM) Osborne was a part of that troupe, though I think she eventually told him his talent lay in writing, not in performing.

by Anonymousreply 17107/17/2021

[quote]But Lucy was always very much into mentoring the young.

As if!

by Anonymousreply 17207/17/2021

The late Taylor Negron is who you're thinking of r171. It's a rather touching story.....

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by Anonymousreply 17307/17/2021

A big part of Lucy's bitterness I think also was due to the fact that to her being a star meant being a movie star which is something she could never be. This led to the catastrophe of Mame one last ditch effort which was one of the worst things she did in her life.

Robert Osborne though he had enormous respect and affection for her avoided her after the premiere because what could he say?

by Anonymousreply 17407/17/2021

Keith leads a rousing...

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by Anonymousreply 17507/17/2021

r173, thanks so much for finding and posting that article. It's even better than I remembered and should be read by everyone on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 17607/17/2021

r174 but surely she made up for it with The Stone Pillow ...

by Anonymousreply 17707/17/2021

I wasn't around back then, but Mame must've looked absolutely antiquated when it came out in 1974. It was the era of Watergate, huge civil unrest, hard rock music and gritty movies like The Godfather and Death Wish. Mame seemed almost prehistoric in that time period.

by Anonymousreply 17807/17/2021

She never got over her disappointment with Desi and was permanently crabby.

by Anonymousreply 17907/17/2021

Lela Rogers (not Lila Rodgers) did not create the Hollywood Studio Club.

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by Anonymousreply 18007/17/2021

Lela Rogers was a pretty awful person too, apparently.

See: "The Hard Way" controversy.

by Anonymousreply 18107/17/2021

Lela Rogers bearded for J. Edgar Hoover. (So did her daughter Ginger)

by Anonymousreply 18207/17/2021

Most people are not entirely good nor entirely bad. It's lazy and dishonest to categorize people (especially those we've never met) as horrible, but it sure does make us feel better about ourselves, so there's that...

by Anonymousreply 18307/17/2021

r183 is fun at parties

by Anonymousreply 18407/17/2021

“Horrible people” are more interesting. Sorry, its true.

by Anonymousreply 18507/17/2021

Yeah, because demonizing people has done so much for our current cultural climate.

by Anonymousreply 18607/17/2021

A moment for the departed Jack Carter, who introduced Lucy to Gary. Carter went to grade school with my mother, who told the story of him as a class clown who tied her braids together and dipped them in inkwells. This was only a humorous story because he became famous. Otherwise it would be about bullying and ruining a kid's dress.

by Anonymousreply 18707/17/2021

The Stone Pillow was a fucking TV movie!!! The woman couldn't get above slumming on television!

by Anonymousreply 18807/17/2021

Apropos of nothing, Phil Ober wasn't bad looking in younger days.

I always felt as if Lucy's animosity toward him seeped out in the Dore Schary episode.

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by Anonymousreply 18907/17/2021

I always wondered why Gary didn't advise against The Stone Pillow. He shouldn't have allowed it.

by Anonymousreply 19007/17/2021

[quote]I wasn't around back then, but Mame must've looked absolutely antiquated when it came out in 1974. It was the era of Watergate, huge civil unrest, hard rock music and gritty movies like The Godfather and Death Wish. Mame seemed almost prehistoric in that time period.

Not really. They were still attempting to make old fashioned movie musicals up until about 1977 with A Little Night Music.

Mame came out in the period of 1776, Funny Lady, Lucky Lady, Lost Horizon, At Long Last Love, A Little Night Music and Man of La Mancha.

It's not a great movie, but it did get some good notices. I believe the NY Times was one. It was also nominated for two Golden Globes. Including a Best Actress nomination for Ball.

There were other musicals on that list above that received much worse public receptions.

by Anonymousreply 19107/17/2021

Was Stone Pillow Lucy’s Harry and Tonto?

by Anonymousreply 19207/17/2021

The title of Time magazine's review was...MAIMED. Lucky Lady wasn't a musical, r191. The problem with the other movie musicals you mention was that (with the exception of 1776) they were really crappy movies. In 1776's case, it's a piece that just works better on stage.

by Anonymousreply 19307/17/2021

I thought the NY Times said something like Mame Dennis keeps coming back like Dracula.

by Anonymousreply 19407/17/2021

"Lucy had requested a pack of Pall Mall non-filtered cigarettes, a bag of Chocolate Pogen Cookies, and a bottle of Scotch."

And that's why she looked like hell -- and ironically why she couldn't have any cosmetic surgery.

by Anonymousreply 19507/17/2021

"The packed class was made up of people of all ages and both genders. "

by Anonymousreply 19607/17/2021

R128 is truly pukeworthy, a MARY! with Regan's pea soup running out of her own gob.

by Anonymousreply 19707/17/2021

r195 lots of those boozy, chain-smoking old broads got work done. Bette Davis had a full facelift around that same time.

by Anonymousreply 19807/17/2021

[quote]Eden has dined out out on that story (the real one in [R31]'s link) forever.

Whoever wrote all that smack at R31's link, it obviously wasn't Barbara Eden. At least, that should be obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells.

by Anonymousreply 19907/17/2021

R198, true Davis had ONE full facelift around 1979-1980 or so. She took a chance, but Ball was too terrified...

by Anonymousreply 20007/17/2021

I think there were probably a number of actresses who, had Desi Arnez married any of them, nobody would even remember Lucille Ball.

by Anonymousreply 20107/17/2021

R200 Lucy had been told by numerous doctors that she couldn't get a face lift because of her very thin skin. I don't think she was terrified, she just chose not to go against doctor's advice. It is why instead of a facelift she wore strong tape under her wigs to pull her face up.

by Anonymousreply 20207/17/2021

In her later years, Dietrich had tiny hooks installed in the front of her wigs which she would push through the skin at the top of her forehead to pull her skin up. She used an antibacterial ointment to prevent infection. These women were SERIOUS about their looks and stardom.

When they realized they could no longer appear in public without some semblance of their famous looks, some of them retired from public view entirely. Marlene was one. Joan Crawford was another. She never appeared in public again after she was photographed at a Rainbow Room reception for her buddy Roz Russell and she, Joan, saw the photos in the next mornings' papers.

by Anonymousreply 20307/17/2021

I've heard that about Dietrich. It must've been painful to do that to your skin!

She held up for a helluva long time, though. She didn't retire from the public eye until she was in her late 70s because at that point she finally could no longer look like "Dietrich" anymore. She made the image last an exceptionally long time.

by Anonymousreply 20407/17/2021

Joan Crawford still looked pretty good in the face, imho. Not bad at all for a 70ish woman. The problem was that absolutely hideous wig, it was awful and the dress and jewelry didn't help either. If she'd worn a better wig and a different dress she would've looked good for her age.

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by Anonymousreply 20507/17/2021

Who is Yvonne DeCarlo?

by Anonymousreply 20607/17/2021

^^She played Lily Munster

by Anonymousreply 20707/17/2021

The girl knew her camera...

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by Anonymousreply 20807/17/2021

As a kid I loved that final shot of Lucy in the show opening, it was so glamorous and gracious after all that slapstick. Her face had a wundafull exaggerated bone structure, great armature.

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by Anonymousreply 20907/17/2021

Lucy was a lovely person.

by Anonymousreply 21007/17/2021

She looked great for 50ish in that Lucy Show opening.

You sure she had nothing done?

by Anonymousreply 21107/17/2021

Yvonne de Carlo

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by Anonymousreply 21207/17/2021

[quote]Joan Crawford still looked pretty good in the face, imho. Not bad at all for a 70ish woman. The problem was that absolutely hideous wig, it was awful and the dress and jewelry didn't help either. If she'd worn a better wig and a different dress she would've looked good for her age.

I'm quite surprised you didn't mention her makeup in that photo as part of the problem.....

by Anonymousreply 213Last Sunday at 4:56 AM

R208 This also shows the importance of lighting, makeup and a flattering wig. Just one year later, Lucy filmed the closing shot for the "Here's Lucy" credits and looked SO much older.

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by Anonymousreply 214Last Sunday at 5:11 AM

Lucy's troupe

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by Anonymousreply 215Last Sunday at 7:24 AM

I remember seeing a clip on here of either the Merv Griffin or Mike Douglas shows (I think it was the latter). Lucy was the guest and Mame was about to be released. The host told Lucy, "You know, I'm hearing from everyone that this is the best musical ever committed to film."

And Lucy is all "thank you" about it.

It's painful to watch knowing what everyone was *really* saying.

by Anonymousreply 216Last Sunday at 7:44 AM

It was Merv, r216...

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by Anonymousreply 217Last Sunday at 7:48 AM

The thing I like most about Lucy is how she reacted when accused of communism in the fifties. Class.

by Anonymousreply 218Last Sunday at 7:57 AM

R218, the quote I read about that was from her husband:, something like "The only thing about Lucy that's red is her hair."

by Anonymousreply 219Last Sunday at 8:04 AM

Commie bitch!

by Anonymousreply 220Last Sunday at 8:07 AM

What now, Catherine Curtis?

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by Anonymousreply 221Last Sunday at 8:24 AM

[quote]"The only thing about Lucy that's red is her hair."

"And we all know that isn't even real."

by Anonymousreply 222Last Sunday at 8:48 AM

That Merv Griffin interview makes Lucy seem very nice and pretty grounded.

Responding to newspaper reports that her voice was dubbed in Mame: "That singer should sue."

by Anonymousreply 223Last Sunday at 8:49 AM

"And the carpets did NOT match the drapes, I can assure you."

by Anonymousreply 224Last Sunday at 8:50 AM

Of course not. Henna rinse is not meant to be applied to the vulva.

by Anonymousreply 225Last Sunday at 8:58 AM

@r217, That Merv Griffin interview was the biggest bunch of BS. I never realized what a lousy liar Lucy was. The fake outrage and modesty about everything about Mame is so over the top. She knew she had a dog on her hands and was trying desperately to salvage the movie before it even opened. Pleading with her fans to go see it, because if they don't not only will it be a bad movie, but a box office flop too

by Anonymousreply 226Last Sunday at 9:34 AM

Lucille overestimated the number of people who would pay to see her sing in a movie for 2 hours vs. the number of people who wouldn't *mind* not changing the channel to see her be silly for free for 30 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 227Last Sunday at 9:36 AM

I never recovered from the indignity.

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by Anonymousreply 228Last Sunday at 9:40 AM

Lucy Carter meets Lucille Ball

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by Anonymousreply 229Last Sunday at 9:49 AM

I never realized how much Lucy and Madonna had in common. Both tops in their generas, loved by millions, but both victims of self-sabotage simply by not knowing when to leave the party

by Anonymousreply 230Last Sunday at 9:51 AM

I disagree. Lucy went out with some amount of dignity still intact.

by Anonymousreply 231Last Sunday at 9:53 AM

The Hirschfeld caricature of Lucy in the closing credits in r209's link was taken from the ad campaign for MGM's "Thousands Cheer" (1943) .

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by Anonymousreply 232Last Sunday at 10:03 AM

Damn, I think Hirschfeld hated some of those people, especially our Judy.

by Anonymousreply 233Last Sunday at 10:27 AM

R229 ha, how shameless! But fun.

by Anonymousreply 234Last Sunday at 10:52 AM

Lucy really did go out with some dignity. Life With Lucy was unfortunate, but she always got lots of cheers and applause when she made a public appearance. One month before her death, she got a standing ovation at the Oscars which in retrospect turned out to be a wonderful send-off.

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by Anonymousreply 235Last Sunday at 11:06 AM

This is so bittersweet

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by Anonymousreply 236Last Sunday at 11:09 AM

They weren't Tracy and Hepburn, r235, but they had a nice chemistry.

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by Anonymousreply 237Last Sunday at 11:10 AM

A little respect talk show hostess.

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by Anonymousreply 238Last Sunday at 11:13 AM

Well, r238, all she really said was that she wasn't happy to be there. And she did acknowledge that she died a month later. It's Cohen who's trying to make it more than it was.

by Anonymousreply 239Last Sunday at 11:20 AM

R238 Indeed. That was shitty of Ricki. She should have tempered that useless anecdote with utmost respect, if she had to tell it at all.

by Anonymousreply 240Last Sunday at 11:21 AM

r239 that doesn't sound like Ms. Cohen at all!

by Anonymousreply 241Last Sunday at 11:22 AM

I know, r241, she's usually far worse!

by Anonymousreply 242Last Sunday at 11:23 AM

Rob Lowe said that Lucy was very nice and gracious to him backstage at the Oscars.

by Anonymousreply 243Last Sunday at 11:25 AM

We already talked about the Ricki Lake anecdote days ago (see r3) and honestly it didn't sound like a terrible story that was meant to disrespect her. Like someone already said, Ball was nice to Rob Lowe on the same night, so it's not like she was cranky to everyone because of health.

by Anonymousreply 244Last Sunday at 11:25 AM

Vivian Vance's ex co-stared in The Facts of Life, and I just realized his name is misspelled in the credits.

by Anonymousreply 245Last Sunday at 11:28 AM

Rob was probably the only one who Lucy was aware of. Plus he was a cute young guy. So, r244, I'm going with she wasn't doing great physically and was short to most everyone else because of it.

by Anonymousreply 246Last Sunday at 12:01 PM

R168's story also suggests otherwise, r246.

by Anonymousreply 247Last Sunday at 12:02 PM

How so, r247?

by Anonymousreply 248Last Sunday at 12:09 PM

[quote]I disagree. Lucy went out with some amount of dignity still intact.

Yes, but with not as much dignity intact as if she had never done MAME or that STONE PILLOW TV movie or that final sitcom, or any of those latter-day talk show appearances in which she came across as a bitter, sullen, bored, and/or angry.

by Anonymousreply 249Last Sunday at 12:26 PM

She never quite got over the bad clams, r249.

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by Anonymousreply 250Last Sunday at 12:33 PM

I feel like Carol Burnett and Bea Arthur are more famous and beloved today than Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 251Last Sunday at 1:08 PM

Nobody under 100 knows who Carol Burnett is today.

by Anonymousreply 252Last Sunday at 1:38 PM

I believe Lucy was on the Dick Cavett show when she was in NY when Mame was opening there. She seemed on the grouchy side like she felt no need to trowel on the star charm. Maybe at that point she knew the reviews were awful?

by Anonymousreply 253Last Sunday at 1:45 PM

Umm, I believe Dietrich hooked those little hooks to tiny braids she made with her hair at her temples, sideburns and nape of her neck. The hooks didn't hook into her skin, silly!

by Anonymousreply 254Last Sunday at 2:17 PM

And I believe Taylor Negron misremembered Lucy's anecdote and misspoke about Lela Rogers. She wasn't a FOUNDER of The Hollywood Studio Club but she did all she could to intercept naive young starlet-hopefuls from lurking rapists at the train station and helped FOUND their way to the residence upon their arrival in Hollywood.

by Anonymousreply 255Last Sunday at 2:22 PM

[quote]Yes, but with not as much dignity intact as if she had never done MAME or that STONE PILLOW TV movie or that final sitcom, or any of those latter-day talk show appearances in which she came across as a bitter, sullen, bored, and/or angry.

Let's be fair. The public gave her a lot of shit for getting older as well. Lucy was apart of the first generation of TV icons who grew older in the public eye. And I don't think a lot of people were very accepting or understanding at the time of Lucy Ricardo getting older. Bob Hope, Milton Berle, Red Skeleton had it much easier than she did.

by Anonymousreply 256Last Sunday at 2:33 PM

[quote]Red Skeleton

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 257Last Sunday at 2:45 PM

Lucy was still very popular into the 70s. And remember she was already firmly in middle age when she started I love Lucy. So she wasn't getting shit for getting older.

She was getting shit for making horrible choices. And Bob Hope was getting a lot of shit too for not being funny and being a tired hack.

by Anonymousreply 258Last Sunday at 2:53 PM

What's amazing about I Love Lucy is that it's still hilarious and Lucy Ricardo is still laugh-out-loud funny. That's quite a legacy.

by Anonymousreply 259Last Sunday at 2:54 PM

[quote]And Bob Hope was getting a lot of shit too for not being funny and being a tired hack.

Bob Hope was awful, cringe-worthy awful. I remember watching his interminable specials when I was a kid in the 80s and it was like watching something prehistoric.

by Anonymousreply 260Last Sunday at 2:57 PM

R260 And believe me everyone knew it!

by Anonymousreply 261Last Sunday at 2:59 PM

Bob Hope was still doing those specials when he was 200 years old and had both feet in the grave. They basically drove him to Burbank, carried him on to the set, propped him up and turned on the cameras. Gilbert Gottfried was pretty funny talking about it....

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by Anonymousreply 262Last Sunday at 3:03 PM

Shut Up and Watch

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by Anonymousreply 263Last Sunday at 3:13 PM

Did Rob Lowe have to blow Allan Carr to get the Oscar gig?

by Anonymousreply 264Last Sunday at 4:09 PM

That's the opposite of how it worked, R264. You dropped your trou, stared at the ceiling and thought of your girlfriend or of England, while Carr or Cukor dropped to their knees to do the dirty work.

by Anonymousreply 265Last Sunday at 4:16 PM

How have I never seen this?!

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by Anonymousreply 266Last Monday at 2:56 AM

What's VERY telling in that clip w/Merv at R217, is that not a SINGLE one of her 'jokes' gets a laugh. Not a one. So she may have been trying really hard, but the audience wasn't buying it.

by Anonymousreply 267Last Monday at 5:22 AM

She was always upfront about her not being a joke telling comedienne, r267.

by Anonymousreply 268Last Monday at 7:10 AM

R266 Lucy could still move, at that late date.

by Anonymousreply 269Last Monday at 7:15 AM

R266 Lucy still had great legs. What is funny is they are singing a comedy song about an old woman dancing. The woman is 68. Lucy was 60 there.

by Anonymousreply 270Last Monday at 7:25 AM

R268, true. But I guess my main point was that the audience didn't seem to be on her side at all.

by Anonymousreply 271Last Monday at 7:57 AM

^ I agree, I don't think Lucy was a very good liar in real life, because everything in that interview was total BS and everyone knew it. I give credit to ol' Merv for keeping a straight face throughout the interview, but Merv was pretty good at lying and covering up his entire life. Right, Ryan Seacrest?

by Anonymousreply 272Last Monday at 8:15 AM

Bob Hope. So sad in his decline. He was brought to a comedy show I was doing. An assistant repeated the lines to him, in a reserved section. When he’d laugh it was about 15 minutes later. He was gracious tho. Said he lived seeing comedy left in good hands, posed for pictures, told the woman they were beautiful in a vaudeville kind of way. Rallied best he could.

by Anonymousreply 273Last Monday at 8:18 AM

'In her later years, Dietrich had tiny hooks installed in the front of her wigs which she would push through the skin at the top of her forehead to pull her skin up.'

I read her daughter's book and she is unsparing in her criticism of her mother. I don't recall anything like that.

by Anonymousreply 274Last Monday at 8:20 AM

One of the most chilling moments in Merv Griffin's interview with Lucy about MAME is when he says "You sing in it, you dance," and she replies at best half-jokingly, in a peremptory tone: "Well, you can't really call it singing and you can't really call it dancing, but I'm out there doing what they asked me to do, and don't press me!" At which point Merv and the audience laugh very nervously. Also, later in the interview, when Lucy puts an end to the rumor that Lisa Kirk dubbed her vocals for the film, she says some nice things about Lisa but then says, "She doesn't do that sort of thing, she has her own career" -- whereas, of course, Lisa had dubbed most of Roz Russell's vocals in GYPSY more than 10 years earlier, after her big success on Broadway in KISS ME, KATE.

by Anonymousreply 275Last Monday at 8:29 AM

horrid she stole the film role of Mame from the iconic angela lansbury.......

by Anonymousreply 276Last Monday at 8:31 AM

The third edition of the TCM podcast will be all about Lucy, coming in the fall.

[quote] The 10-episode Ball podcast will premiere in October and feature more than 50 new interviews in an examination of her life, from her early years as a model to her “triumphant takeover of television,” a network statement says. It promises “surprising revelations at every turn.”

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by Anonymousreply 277Last Monday at 8:46 AM

Someone needs to do a podcast on Vivian Vance

by Anonymousreply 278Last Monday at 12:27 PM

Lucy only did the movie of Mame because Angela had no interest in doing it.

by Anonymousreply 279Last Monday at 12:29 PM

Bea did Mame because her husband was directing it and in her own words, he told Bea that "he owed her" for coming out to LA so she could have a television career. I loved the story Estelle would tell about first meeting Bea and telling her that she had just seen Mame on TV. "PLEASE!" Bea moaned. Although Bea and Lucy remained good friends until her passing.

Lucy did Mame because she thought it was good material. And her name could it financed to the big screen.

Her reason for doing her own singing was that the character was a heavy drinker and smoker, and thus it made no sense to have her singing like some grand opera star.

Almost everyone involved with the movie thought hiring Jane Connell was a huge mistake, as she was about twenty years too old for the part.

Lucy broke her leg right before filming which rendered her unable to dance a whole lot.

by Anonymousreply 280Last Monday at 12:41 PM

"She owed him" I meant to say

by Anonymousreply 281Last Monday at 12:43 PM

R277: Sounds like it will be hagiography probably featuring actual hags. It's sad that TCM is doing this about someone with a pretty minor film career and highlighting her tv work. There are plenty of old movie stars more worth a podcast.

by Anonymousreply 282Last Monday at 12:53 PM

I've written this before but it's as good a thread as any to repeat it. I saw Mame on a Sunday afternoon at Radio City. The place was packed and we had to wait on line for two hours. My friends wanted to leave but at that point the line started to move. The audience loved the movie clapping after the songs(yes even after Jane Connell's song) and sang along with the title number.

I was appalled by the act of witnessing a train wreck with thousands of other people enjoying themselves as if they were picnicking at a public execution.

by Anonymousreply 283Last Monday at 1:10 PM

R282 Lucy was already a star in pictures, not a major one, but she was well known, her films did well, and she was in the film mags all the time. However, TV made her a superstar.

by Anonymousreply 284Last Monday at 1:17 PM

R279. Absolute BS. Lansbury fought for the part and was hurt, and then later really bitter she didn't get it. Always reminding others in various performance how great she was in musical theater. The reality is she didn't WRITE THE SONGS, she was lucky herself that she was cast in the first place. Mary Martin turned down the title role, and after numerous actresses had been considered, the part went to Angela Lansbury.

by Anonymousreply 285Last Monday at 1:34 PM

[quote] "Well, you can't really call it singing and you can't really call it dancing, but I'm out there doing what they asked me to do, and don't press me!"

Lucy makes it sounds like others HOUNDED her to take the part, so she relented to please them. In reality, she knocked people to the floor to get the role.

by Anonymousreply 286Last Monday at 1:39 PM

"In reality, she knocked people to the floor to get the role."

And did so in a slapstick manner, I assume.

by Anonymousreply 287Last Monday at 1:42 PM

[quote]Her reason for doing her own singing was that the character was a heavy drinker and smoker, and thus it made no sense to have her singing like some grand opera star.

That was part of her ridiculous rationale for doing her own singing in the movie. Another part of her rationale was her correct statement that, if anyone else dubbed her, everyone in the audience would immediately recognize it wasn't her own voice. But the two main, real reasons why she did her own singing were delusion and ego. Which is extremely odd, because then she turned around and, at every opportunity, publicly derided her own singing in the movie.

by Anonymousreply 288Last Monday at 2:01 PM

The problem with her Mame singing is that the uke wasn't big enough.

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by Anonymousreply 289Last Monday at 2:13 PM

R285 I was just repeating what Lucy said. I know that Lansbury was bitter and Lucy had the gall to say such a thing.

by Anonymousreply 290Last Monday at 2:14 PM

R284: She was nobody, one of many B-movie people who had more success in tv than they ever had in movies. The fan magazines were happy to fill space with B-movie types like her. The movie people who did radio like her were second raters like Red Skelton., just like her.

by Anonymousreply 291Last Monday at 2:17 PM

It was gossip columnist Radie Harris who wrote in her column that Warners had hired Lisa Kirk to do back up vocal tracks of Mame's songs in case Lucy's tracks weren't usable. Both Ball and Warners immediately issued public denials that it had happened and they both had their lawyers send letters demanding a retraction, which was published shortly afterwards.

After Ball's death, Jerry Herman wrote of the nightmare assembling usable takes from Lucy's vocals. They rarely got more than one usable phrase per take and sometimes no more than single notes, which all had to be stitched together in the recording studio. But remember this was before the days of digital audio manipulation. Nightmare was the word used by all involved.

by Anonymousreply 292Last Monday at 2:22 PM

I read that even Desi tried to talk her out of it. Where was Gary? Or did he know he would be out on his ass without a penny?

by Anonymousreply 293Last Monday at 2:29 PM

@r292, I'm sure she sounded just like this...

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by Anonymousreply 294Last Monday at 2:33 PM

She was much too old and her voice was destroyed by smoking. It's a shame nobody was honest with her and told her "you're insane to do this."

by Anonymousreply 295Last Monday at 4:15 PM

10 years earlier, Lucy probable would been fine. But by 1973, the voice was shot ( never great as a singer anyway), and she’d lost whatever ability she had to play sophistication. In the 1940s, she coul pull off sophisticated

by Anonymousreply 296Last Monday at 4:19 PM

'She was much too old and her voice was destroyed by smoking. It's a shame nobody was honest with her and told her "you're insane to do this."'

Everybody knew this at the time but nobody would dare to tell her except for Desi and she ignored him.

by Anonymousreply 297Last Monday at 4:23 PM

She could still pull off sophisticated in the '50s!

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by Anonymousreply 298Last Monday at 4:24 PM

[quote] She was nobody, one of many B-movie people who had more success in tv than they ever had in movies.

When you get called titles like "Queen of the Bs" and "Technicolor Tessie" you have achieved some real stardom, though of course nothing like the stardom she achieved as "Queen of TV!"

by Anonymousreply 299Last Monday at 4:36 PM

R298 That is a Little Rock drag queen's idea of sophistication.

by Anonymousreply 300Last Monday at 4:44 PM

That TCM podcast advertising 50 new interviews....?

Most anyone pertinent enough to say something profound is long dead. I fear these interviews will be with Kate MacKinnon types bragging about how Lucy influenced their lives.....ugh.

by Anonymousreply 301Last Monday at 5:09 PM

True r301. The problem with any bio of a classic Hollywood personality is that all of their contemporaries are now dead.

by Anonymousreply 302Last Monday at 5:11 PM

[quote]What's amazing about I Love Lucy is that it's still hilarious and Lucy Ricardo is still laugh-out-loud funny. That's quite a legacy.

The writing played a part in that. When Jess Oppenheimer was writing her scripts, he tried to ground the set-ups logically. Otherwise it's just a free-for-all. Once he sued the writers of her subsequent shows, they tried to dumb her character down. That's why the opening of [italic]Here's Lucy[/italic] turns her into a puppet: other people are having to plan her schemes for her, and she goes along with them.

by Anonymousreply 303Last Monday at 7:32 PM

[quote]Everybody knew this at the time but nobody would dare to tell her except for Desi and she ignored him.

Desi was a musician and a better singer than her on a bad day than she was on a good day, and the box office receipts and reviews proved him right. It should have been Angela Lansbury, but if Warner Bros. really didn't want her then they should have considered Doris Day or Ann-Margret.

ABC's involvement in the film's production shouldn't be overlooked. They were 1 for 3 since they also made [italic]Song of Norway[/italic] and co-produced [italic]Cabaret[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 304Last Monday at 7:38 PM

I believe Bette Davis was also interested in the role of Mame, if you can even imagine.

by Anonymousreply 305Last Monday at 7:49 PM

Christ, I just read the lyrics to the Mame song, and that’s some pretty racist shit going on there.

by Anonymousreply 306Last Monday at 7:54 PM

No, r305, Vera. She thought she had a shot at it.

by Anonymousreply 307Last Monday at 7:57 PM

Even Vera wouldn't have worked for Davis. She was in even worse shape than Lucy was by that time.

by Anonymousreply 308Last Monday at 8:15 PM

I could've seen Bette doing the role in the original picture.

by Anonymousreply 309Last Monday at 8:21 PM

In the 50s with Roz Russel, yes. But by the mid-70s the booze and smoking had really taken their toll, just like they had on Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 310Last Monday at 8:27 PM

r303 I find Here's Lucy and later seasons of The Lucy Show unwatchable

by Anonymousreply 311Last Tuesday at 1:37 AM

Huge ILL fan but for me, nothing Lucy did after it came close to what she accomplished as Lucy Ricardo, including her few hit movies like Yours, Mine and Ours.

I do love listening to the Wildcat OBR even if Lucy's singing voice isn't great.

by Anonymousreply 312Last Tuesday at 4:35 AM

Were there really rumors that Lucy and Viv were lovers? Or is that just television lore?

by Anonymousreply 313Last Tuesday at 4:36 AM

[quote]Desi was a musician and a better singer than her on a bad day than she was on a good day

Oh, please. Desi could barely sing any better than Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 314Last Tuesday at 6:17 AM

Lucy had pretty good legs for a 60yo in this clip. And she could still move.

Ginger Rogers was the same age at the time and it's pretty amazing to see her move so effortlessly. She really makes that footwork at the beginning look easy, when it's really not.

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by Anonymousreply 315Last Tuesday at 9:15 AM

I'm watching ILL on DecadesTV as I type. It's the episode where Tennessee Ernie Ford comes to visit and Lucy vamps it up as an evil glamorpuss to get him to leave. It's an amazing combination of small brilliant comic bits and timing and truly embarrassing 1950s comic tropes.

"I'm the wicked city woman your mother warned you about."

"You got quite a hitch in your getalong."

by Anonymousreply 316Last Tuesday at 9:26 AM

The Tennessee Ernie Ford episodes rank among my least favorite. The worst is when they stop to visit him on their way to California. Along with Lucy Goes to Scotland, it's one of the worst episodes of the series

by Anonymousreply 317Last Tuesday at 9:34 AM

I liked Tennessee Ernie Ford's visits to The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy more than I Love Lucy. But, Tennessee Bound is also notable for Aaron Spelling's bit part.

by Anonymousreply 318Last Tuesday at 9:44 AM

r317 I beg to disagree about the Bent Fork episode. What would the world be like without Teensy and Weensy?

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by Anonymousreply 319Last Tuesday at 9:46 AM

[quote]It should have been Angela Lansbury

Angela wasn't a box office draw at the time. Besides, she was semi retired and living in Ireland.

[quote]really didn't want her then they should have considered Doris Day or Ann-Margret

Doris was over showbiz by that point. The only reason she was still working on TV was because she was contractually obligated to do a TV show thanks to her ex husbands shady business dealings.

Ann was too young for the part at the time.

by Anonymousreply 320Last Tuesday at 11:02 AM

[quote]Angela wasn't a box office draw at the time. Besides, she was semi retired and living in Ireland.

Your second statement is incorrect. Please don't state things as facts when they aren't.

by Anonymousreply 321Last Tuesday at 12:17 PM

Just my opinion but even if Lansbury had starred in the film of MAME, it would have still been a ponderous bore. The story of Auntie Mame was old hat and no longer shocking or even whimsical by the early 70s, American culture had moved on. Frankly, I think it might have ruined Lansbury's career.

by Anonymousreply 322Last Tuesday at 12:48 PM

Angela Lansbury was solving mysteries in Maine.

by Anonymousreply 323Last Tuesday at 12:53 PM

Has the question been sufficiently answered and what was the outcome?

by Anonymousreply 324Last Tuesday at 1:04 PM

This is one of the better DL threads we've had recently

by Anonymousreply 325Last Tuesday at 3:43 PM

If Bedknobs and Broomsticks didn't ruin Lansbury's career nothing could.

by Anonymousreply 326Last Tuesday at 3:49 PM

You don't buzz a legend...

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by Anonymousreply 327Last Wednesday at 11:46 AM

^ Lucy should have said, "drunk" = "Stiff", or Desi

by Anonymousreply 328Last Wednesday at 11:53 AM

Lucy appeared to have some new dentures in that Password clip.

by Anonymousreply 329Last Wednesday at 4:17 PM
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