Drunk Boat Driving Murdering Frat Boy Son is Murdered with His Mother (Part Deux)

Good. Because I can’t post in the old one. Throttled.

The housekeeper who died was white.

Chalking in for the fat-faced, self-satisfied soft boy fron a fat-faced family that ran Lowcountry as well as they did.

They'll have to examine every docket going back years if they're serious about solving this case.

Housekeeper was a rough 57. Assuming she was even that old in the photo- it could have been an old photo.

I say that as someone who’s been going gray since my 20s, so I get it.

Casting of the inevitable mini-series:

Kim Catrall (in a fat suit) IS Maw Murdaugh.

Armie Hammer (in an Emmy-winning career-reviving performance) IS Paw Murdaugh.

Anthony Hopkins IS Grandpaw Murdaugh.

300 pounds of raw hamburger meat IS Paul/Timmy/Biff Tannen.

Eliot Page IS Buster.

With special appearances by Kate Winslet as the tortured genius detective with the messy private life who is brought in to untangle this tale

And Tim O’Tay as the special friend and confidante of Paw.

Haha!

The previous thread is open again.

It never closed, just on Primetime. As OP of the original thread should we allow this to be thread two, or when it actually gets near to 600 should I do an official one?

I think we should have a vote.

Let this be thread 2. I can’t post on the other one because it’s too full and popular.

Jessie Plemons was BORN to star in the film/HBO miniseries version of this mess!

OP I know you feel slighted because you didn't get to post number 2 but let it go okay?

As I said on the other thread, that is a very remote wooded property hidden from the main road. The killers had to be familiar with it, I would think. How did they get DNA from that crime scene? It is possible I guess, but fingerprints? Blood? What did the killers leave there that DNA could be obtained from?

Maybe not familiar, initially. Maybe a dry run with someone who was familiar with it. A contract hit. Sent two people to handle both mom and son in case the son was drunk and difficult to handle as usual.

Murdaugh/Murdoch

The names are related. There’s something in the blood of that family. Shit kicking, troublemaking, hateful, racist, murderous blood

I found a Reddit thread about this case where I saw some details mentioned that I hadn't seen elsewhere, such as: the groundskeeper of the hunting property had been recently fired and that there were many security cameras in place. No idea how much of this is true.

[quote] "The interesting thing about Mr. Rowe is that the Murdaugh family portrayed him as a ‘disgruntled’ ex employee who was recently fired. Reports state that when Alex fired Rowe a fight ensued, between the two, whereby Paul jumped in and began fighting Rowe as well. The bad blood between the Murdaugh’s and Rowe could be a possible motive for the crime. Rowe would also have had access to the security camera footage at some point during his employment at the hunting lodge. There are no reports that the Murdaugh’s had their locks changed therefore Rowe could have easily made additional keys while he was employed and used those to access the hunting lodge. No information from law enforcement confirming or denying this theory have been provided."

R15, There was also a comment that Rowe had worked at a school and had inappropriate contact with a student. I’ll try to find it.

There’s some fuckery there. Perhaps he’s being set up as a patsy. Or he’s responsible for the deaths.

Thank you for the link, I am about to read it. Very interesting about the ground keeper. Could it be that Alex was setting him up to take the fall for the murders? If so, wouldn't Alex have been his main target? I think Alex is guilty. His convenient, tight alibi, disgruntled ex-employee, the boating accident case- which introduces many suspects- his wife a victim. This man has the money and power to get people to do anything for him. So far I am favoring him for the hiring hitmen. 9 out 10 times it is the husband.

Sorry, that was for R15.

I have tried to keep up with these threads, so sorry if this has already been mentioned.

If frat ginger/TIMMY had such a long history of being a drunk/drugged crazy asshole, why were people hanging out with him in the first place, on a boat no less? Is it just because he was rich?

I think so. Rich and from the most powerful family in the state. Also, they were very young. He had a boat, which would be enticing to them. People will put up with assholes like him just for the perks that come with it, like fatal boat rides, unfortunately.

Actually, r20, at least one, Mallory Beach's BF didn't want to go and offered to get an Uber from the oyster roast to go home, but Paul/Timmy insisted on boating back even though it was foggy, 40°, and the boat didn't have lights. The guys wanted to get control of steering but Timmy emerged. Most of the time the boat was either idling or going 2 mph so they felt OK until Timmy hit the accelerator. I don't understand why they didn't just cold cock him -- the guy was probably in blackout. They're probably wondering why they didn't, as well.

I think the kids in the boat all go a long way back with each other. Mallory and Timmy's then GF were friends since elementary school. There's a sweet mall store portrait of them together when they were 7 or 8 year olds in the Daily Mail. People make excuses or allowances in such circumstances (he doesn't always get bad). GF probably felt obligated to stay with Timmy, her best friend sticks with her out of concern, group think kicks in... And they'd all been drinking so judgement was impaired. And they were all minors.

The guns were on site.

Police said no more threats out there.

No suspects.

2 different guns:

They shot each other dead.

What was that I read on the previous thread about the father recently firing the gamekeeper at that hunting lodge?

Where did that info come from?

That seems inciminating.

[quote]Police said no more threats out there.

Yes, I thought that was telling. They only say that if they have solved the murder and the murderer is either dead of in jail.

Interesting comments in the Reddit thread:

1) The insurance company, because they covered the wrongful death of the housekeeper in 2018, are refusing to cover this civil suit. Not sure how anyone would know that - but sounds true.

2) There had just been a lengthy mediation of the wrongful death case on June 4th, right before the murders and insurance company doubled down that there would be no additional payout. Basically, everything would come from Alex.

3) They're trying to pin this on the groundskeeper, which we already know.

Reddit thread is good. Yep it's Poppa or the evil groundskeeper. LEO know, but just like that case in Colorado (Suzanne Morphew), they can't make arrests until all the ducks are in line.

Find Daddy's whore. TIA

This is interesting, local news sources are suing law enforcement for public information. I assume Daddy Murdaugh’s 911 call is at the top of the list. It will be interesting to hear what he says, his tone and who he asks for them to bring in on the scene. It seems like SLED has the power to cover things up quite well for this family.

Another good local news article

Paul’s college apartment searched by police and compute and DNA gathered. Apparently, someone had broken in the day after murders and left the door open.

R30, I was just coming here to post that. If this plot gets any thicker, it'll be Henry Cavill's ass.

R30 - surely they have camera security in places like that? College apartments?

R29 - that site doesn't work for me anymore - presumably it wants me to subscribe. Sounds like they're getting a lot of traffic and decided to put in a paywall.

After reading the articles in R573 and R574 part one I'd kill Paul, too. What a creepy asshole. I can't say I'd kill the mother, but they way that family carried on there must be people who knew them with decades-long simmering rage and grievances against them.

Daddy Lobsterface did it.

I think Ryan O'Neal can come out of retirement to play the part of Grandpa Murdaugh.

[quote] the guy was probably in blackout.

Well, he definitely is now. No probably about it anymore.

From the eyes down the dad looks like Grandpa from the Munsters.

[R30], I was just coming here to post that. If this plot gets any thicker, it'll be Henry Cavill's ass.

LMAO!

This murder mystery is as "good" as it gets. A crime novelist of Shakespearean talent couldn't have conjured a better plot so far, and, things are just beginning to heat up.

With good writing and direction, I see a successful two-season Netflix series.

Article about Stephen, the gay nursing student found dead in the middle of the road that may have ties to the Murdaugh boys. I’ve never thought of it before, but one could syphon off a gas tank to cause someone to run out of gas, and if you weren’t expecting it because you filled the tank you wouldn’t necessarily look at the gauge. I thought I read that he was coming home from class, but he was found at 4:00 AM. And his wallet was in the car still.

Honestly, I don’t remember the specific plot lines of Bloodlines, but it seems very similar in being an insular community with a powerful family and lots of devious crimes.

Fitsnews is really coming down hard on that family.

It's a dark Dawson's Creek.

R42, good. I bet other/local news outlets are intimidated.

Now that the entire country is looking at this case, things are different. And once the bully is knocked to the ground, all of his victims come out to have a kick at him.

Dawson's Bayou

There is a Southern Mafia. Don't ask how I know.

How do you kn—

Oh.

Stephen's body was found just a mile down the road from the Murdaugh home.

I love it that there are so many people with a motive and resources to murder the Murdoughs.

It's Murdaugh!

R49 An “o” doesn’t show up in the name when pluralize it.

It's still Murdaugh. Absolute Murdaugh, I say.

Sorry, I'm thinking of Mydough Burrous.

R39, No kidding. This better be on Discovery ID, Netflix or something. The twist and turns of what is going on.

It’s Murdaugh She Wrote!

Jennifer Coolidge as Ma Murdaugh.

Do we know where Hilary Clinton was at the time of the murder?

It was the Biden crime family!!!

Is there any possible way the Feds have jurisdiction? There was no kidnapping, no crossing state lines. Is there another legal reason for involvement? They're corrupt as all hell, but would that have to be proven first, right? That's not likely to happen after 100 years of stranglehold.

R59 I repeatedly read that Stephen’s phone changed hands multiple times, but was never unlocked until the FBI. And there it ends not what was found or how they became involved, even though I think the mother lobbied for their involvement saying that there was too much corruption at the local and state level.

I seldom watch the news, I'm counting on you bitches.

Those Murdaugh boys are hideous-looking. My god. Just like their father. The ugly kind of ginger, too.

Maggie was attractive enough, for an old frau, though it seems she’s always been broad in the beam.

The dead one, Paul, reminds me so much of Prince Harry.

[quote] Very interesting about the ground keeper. Could it be that Alex was setting him up to take the fall for the murders? If so, wouldn't Alex have been his main target? I think Alex is guilty.

With the history of this family in prosecuting local crime, there is no reason that the father wouldn't know about the groundskeeper's past. I suspect he employed him so that if he ever needed to he would have someone to frame.

[quote] surely they have camera security in places like that? College apartments?

I am a University of South Carolina Alum. That is a very expensive college apartment complex for rich kids. There is most assuredly plenty of cameras. A 2 bedroom unit goes for over $1500/month which is insanely expensive for Columbia, SC. The only students I knew who lived in that company's apartments were rich kids that didn't live in Greek housing or drug dealers. My old weed guy lived in one of their properties. At least I think this one is a new build. Two of their other ones are converted cotton mills and even though they are very expensive they have bad rat problems.

The mom looks like Linda Tripp after the surgery.

Maggie was a hot mama and obviously loved the cagemeat - I think it was hook up gone bad......son found mama with HOT BBC and wanted some of it - the result was murder.......

^ Only on the datalounge

Jewish lasers from space obvs..

How is their last name supposed to be pronounced? Murdaw? Murdoe? Murdawg?

Murdaw

Mur-Dawg, I love it. So Southern.

R70 you know that at some point in 87 years as elected prosecutors there had to be one campaign where the candidate compared himself to a guard dog against crime.

What I don't understand is that Ma & Jnr were murdered by two different weapons. Local police are telling residents that there is no reason to be alarmed. Local police then go on to say that it was not a murder suicide. So if it's not a murder suicide and it's not some random multiple killer, who do law enforcement think is the killer and why haven't they been arrested?

It's been reported that they were shot multiple times. Junior was shot with a shotgun, Mummers with an automatic rifle.

R72 Local police probably don't know too much and are just trying to keep the peace. SLED will be very hesitant to share too much with them because EVERYONE knows about the various conflicts of interest between the family and local law enforcement.

R72 & R73 For clarity’s sake can we not refer to Paul as Junior, Paul’s brother know as “Buster,” after his great grandfather, is technically Richard Alexander Murdaugh Jr. named after his father. The father goes by R. Alex or Alex. Paul can be referred to as Paul or his drunk alter ego “Timmy.”

Junior Mur-dawg

It's pronounced Murdoch. Just like Doherty is pronounced "Dockerty" and not "Do'- HER-ty".

OK, I’m not going to link it because she seems to be quite right wing nut, but this woman who is extensively covering the cases on her Youtube channel says that part of Stephen’s autopsy included a rape kit whose where abouts went missing.

Junior Junior Junior

Timmy, Timmy, Timmy

So what would be the reasons for the father doing it?

Daddy Alex has now offered his DNA. But he lives there. Finding his DNA and fingerprints all over wouldn't mean anything. Likewise on his wife and son.

[Quote] Just like Doherty is pronounced "Dockerty"

Only in Britain.

"So what would be the reasons for the father doing it?"

My take on Dad, based exclusively on what I've read on DL:

Paul/ Timmy was trouble, even bigger trouble than his older brother the fag. Dad had barely gotten the death of that fairy hairdresser put to rest (and who knows what really happened that night -- dad sure doesn't want to hear anything more about it), when Paul/ Timmy gets the housekeeper killed. And then that stupid stunt with the Beach girl dying -- it was hard enough trying to get the police/ ME situation under control, but this bigass lawsuit is still hanging over our heads. Now the insurance company said they won't cover the civil suit! This could ruin us, put us out of house and home.

Damn, that boy is a crazy loose cannon. He's gotta go, maybe that'll get the hounds off our trail. I mean, who knows what he'd do next? He's dragged our name through the mud long enough.

Get out of my way, Maggie -- this has to be done! Wha -- oh, shit! Maggie, speak to me! Maggie!

That doesn't tally with keeping Buster, a homosexual, as his one and only heir.

There was no reason to kill his wife because she was useful for maintaining respectable social relations unless he had somebody waiting in the wings which people would already know about and I'm sure he took great pride in his arrogant fuck up son even with possibly three murders under his belt. My son can do anything he fucking wants!

If the insurance company won't pay out on wrongful death maybe that's dad's last straw.

I’m not certain that this whole story isn’t just a forgotten masterwork by Tennessee Williams.

R88, There isn't a fragile character doomed by the brutality of the world. The nurse does not count. He is off stage. Perhaps more like a Horton Foote, or Romulus Linney.

.It’s nothing but conjecture of course, far be it from me to make any allegations, but it’s easy to imagine a scenario with a nice family trip to the beach, with (a) one closeted son bearing a grudge against a psychotic son who killed his lover, (b) one belligerent psychotic brother who shows not an iota of remorse for those he has hurt, (c) an over-protective mom who refuses to see any bad in her darling boy and (d) a powerful father who realises he has no control over his own family and who goes off hunting when yet another fight breaks out between the two boys and mom, and returns home only in time to try to cover up for the only one left alive. Does Buster have an alibi for that night?

If this was a TV show, JB Fletcher would be visiting the mom (her old school pal) that week, and have all of this wrapped up in 1 hour.

R89, I am not sure whether I am casting Mrs Murdaugh as Amanda Wingfield or Laura Wingfield yet. That will become clearer as this drama moves towards its denouement.

I asked them nicely three times to buy my last dozen box of delicious GSC. They refused so I offed them. Got a badge in marksmanship and bringing home to Troop 86 her mink which we made into muffs to use for unnoticable hand jobs. Cookies have crumbled into very little revenue for the organization.

[quote] Finding his DNA and fingerprints all over wouldn't mean anything.

Not necessarily.

If the shooter was injured and his blood is also at the scene Papa would be hard pressed to explain that away.

Likewise, if his fingerprint was found in fresh blood from the victim, such as on the wall or the doorknob, that, too, would be difficult to explain away.

Angie does need to be consulted. Is she working on this? What golden age stars are still available? Marsha Hunt, Jane Powell, Margaret O'Brian, Carlton Carpenter.

The fact that this wealthy powerful family has not offered a large cash reward seeking information leading to the capture of the murders of two of its family members speaks volumes.

Anyone got a Ouija board and can get us some answers?

The boyfriend had only himself to blame for getting into the boat with his girlfriend when Paul was clearly off the deep end and they all knew something terrible was going to happen. They had seen him in his nasty drunken condition before. Even the people on shore were telling them he was too drunk to pilot the boat.

I can’t see the father Alex doing this. I think it’s an enemy the boys made. The parents made sure to at least pretend some noblesse oblige. The law firm did things for the community.

All those dumb kids did was hunt and fish and play sports. And get involved in suspicious deaths.

Here’s the post I saw on Reddit.

N.b.: Heyward is the school Paul attended. If you really want to deep dive, google it. I can’t find much on this Rowe person, but supposedly he and Maggie were FB friends.

Why Alex would hire someone like this for his beloved property puzzled me. He really didn’t know? The John Marvin property down the street in Moselle was robbed of two pieces of expensive heavy machinery in March, per a FB post. Maybe this guy was doing bad things… taking advantage of the Murdaughs.

And I am only sharing this for entertainment purposes. This guy could be completely innocent.

R99 - how does this person know all this info? If Rowe lived next door, of course his cell phone would ping from one of the few cell towers in that rural area.

Second, did the guy come with TWO guns? This sounds like somebody planting this to cause suspicion of the groundskeeper.

Sounds like the relationship when Rowe was a teacher was several years ago - why would you fire someone just NOW over that? And bullshit - if Alex was so prominent in the community, he had heard and known about that. Particularly if there were lawsuits and police involved.

I think he fired him without cause in order to raise suspicion. This was planned and a long game. Why did he suddenly call someone else about Rowe's past? To plant some sort of doubt.

I doubt this Rowe guy was so distraught over losing a groundskeeper position - it couldn't have been a full-time position. If they got into an argument, it's because Alex was making up all this bullshit as a reason to fire Rowe and Alex may have accused him of more stuff that never happened.

Everyone is buying it - just like Alex wanted. Rowe walked over there with TWO guns in the rain, at night, to kill Alex's son Paul because - why exactly? Why kill his son? Why not wait for Alex to come home - that's the person he had the beef with.

The Doherty people I know pronounce their name Dorty.

The groundskeeper being the primary person of interest for the double murder as described in R99's above link is a highly plausible scenario, as opposed to the father, at least at this point.

The alleged crime: Lawnmower Man kills the son in an act of revenge against dad for being canned (he probably absolutely hated the son, for obvious reasons, which gave him additional motivation), but didn't realize the mother was there as well, and so he had to take her out, too, as she was a witness. This was a crime of passion, not a hit job, and in cases like these the perpetrators don't think things through and they get caught.

Lawnmower Man planned to kill Paul/Timmy because that would've caused the most pain instead of killing dad, and it served the dual purpose of dispatching a well-known, budding sociopath.

A possible reason for two guns: he ran out of ammo with the first weapon, and grabbed another one on site to finish off mom. Leaving the casings there didn't make a difference because the murder weapons were from the lodge.

Dear ol' dad conveniently leaving the family for a short while so that his wife and son could be offed and then coming back within a half hour or so of the murders seems too obvious (although that could be intentional, too). In either case, the first person investigators would set their sights on would be the father, and unless he's committed the perfect crime, with absolutely no loose ends, which is highly unlikely, the father would most likely end up being proven as the person responsible.

This all alleged and just a theory based on what I've gleaned from these two threads.

Ack. He was frrrramed.

I'm beginning to think it's the groundskeeper too.

What a weird story, It really does seem like something out of a trashy V. C. Andrews novel.

"She was a beautiful, innocent girl. But after her drowning her vengeful spirit possessed the deranged groundskeeper. Who will pay the ultimate price for her watery death? Find out in the shocking pages of WHISPERING BEACHES. First comes the whispering. Then the screaming starts..."

Unretouched photo of angry and aggressive groundskeeper.

If the bodies were found next to each other there were two shooters. If they were found farther apart (indicating one tried to run away) there was one shooter who carried two guns.

R106 Various sources have said they were yards apart, but I think it’s also said they were shot in the head and chest, indicating front.

[quote]part of Stephen’s autopsy included a rape kit the whereabouts of went missing.

I read this in one of the newspaper reports and thought it rather eye-opening.

What's a rape kit?

Who carries a shotgun and a rifle with them in the pouring rain? That's quite heavy to carry, fire, then change and then discharge accurately at two targets. Unless Rowe planned to wipe out the whole family and went armed to the teeth, it seems strange.

A rape kit is a package of items used by medical personnel for gathering and preserving physical evidence following an allegation of sexual assault. The evidence collected from the victim can aid the criminal rape investigation and the prosecution of a suspected assailant.

A Rape Kit is a Sexual Assault Forensic Exam, it can be used on a dead person as well as someone who is living to see if there was recent sexual activity and if it was aggressive.

Oh so there's was a suspicion that Stephen may have been sexually assaulted prior to his death in the road?

Thx R111

A more interesting question is do most autopsies conduct rape kit exams as standard practice on males or was there some prominent evidence on his body (seamen stains, lubricant, anal leakage) that lead them to conduct it or was it asked by the family to be done?

If we’re going with the caretaker theory (I’m not wedded to it), here’s a possibility: The WIFE hired him because she was the one who managed the household and parenting. They’re FaceBook friends. Maybe the husband left it to her (as busy men do), and she didn’t know or didn’t care or didn’t believe. Or maybe there were no allegations at all.

Then with the equipment theft and maybe some other things, Alex fired him. It’s a heavily wooded area, very private, and a good cover for all kinds of shady business. The police wouldn’t be likely to sniff around Moselle because it was Murdaugh territory.

[quote]seamen stains

Police found an anchor on the shoulder.

[Quote]Various sources have said they (the bodies) were yards apart,

How many yards? 2? 20? Details re this case are pitiful.

Pop

Six

Snort

Uh-uh

Beaufort

Murdaugh

So it was revenge for losing a job? This is sadly turning tedious.

R118, nah. There has to be more. Although people do kill for less.

This is not a popular view, but I don’t think it was the dad. Maybe he set it up, but I don’t think he pulled the trigger. Old boy is pampered-soft and he wouldn’t have the guts to do what was done to the kid.

I think Paul was the primary target and Maggie was incidental.

The insurance company in the Satterfield case (the maid Paul pushed down the stairs) was Lloyd's of London. The insurance company in the boating case that sued the Murdaughs was Philadelphia. They sued because the policy only covered injuries at the hunting property and specifically did not cover injuries related to boating accidents.

That makes the hunting property make more sense.

R120 Wait, the Hunting property and the house where they kept the boat are two different properties. And apparently there was a third regular house that may have been sold last year.

Their main residence is/was a Frank Lloyd Wright house They sold it?

It was the seventh of June, another sleepy, swampy Southern night.

Timmy was snortin’ something strong, Fur Mama and busy gettin’ tight.

The dogs was barkin’ and Daddy called to say he was runnin’ late.

With all the yellin’ and face slappin’ no one heard the creak of the gate.

Fur Mama was pleading, “Don’t hurt my precious!” down on her knees.

Daddy kicked Timmy to the dirt, snarled, “Pass the shotgun please.”

After he was through, he said to Fur Mama to her big surprise,

“I blame that fucker on you!” and shot her straight between the eyes.

The dad might be soft but he hunts, he has no problem with taking lives.

I can’t wait till the 48 Hours episode! Netflix will just make it 4 episodes and drag this shit out wayyy too long.

R121 My bad, the boating party left from and was to return to Paul’s grandfather’s property known as The Island listed as being worth 1.45 million dollars. But I think the boat was registered in his father’s name and brought on to the property that day according to the deposition. I can’t seem to link the Sea Packet article that states this.

I think the interesting thing about this case is the sheer number of people that are potential suspects for one reason or another.

Dad, dead Grandad, the boating girl's family, Stephen's family, the axed handyman, any of Dad/Grandad's criminals that they put away over the years, the list goes on and on.

R122 No the FLW house is owned by the film producer Joel Silver since 1986, it was mentioned by someone in the last thread who visited the plantation at some point.

[quote]Netflix will just make it 4 episodes

Oh, honey . . . they will wring at least 10 episodes out of the. Two episodes just about Mama's coat.

R128 That was me who visited Auldbrass Plantation -- and was mocked for calling it a "plantation" even though that is in the name.

I can’t believe the people of Beaufort tolerate Joel Silver.

R130 Well, hopefully I restored your reputation. Was Keanu there the time you visited? It does look grand.

R122, Maggie posted photos (a while back, anyway) of a grand big old house, not anything vaguely FLW. Maybe they moved?

She also made a post in July 2020 that they were moving to Edisto. Not sure if she meant they were moving for the summer season or something more permanent.

I wondered if their relocation had something to do with big daddy’s illness and mother’s dementia.

R132 I went not many years after he had purchased it, so it wasn't in as good a shape as it is in that video. It certainly seemed more interesting than beautiful at that time.

Long article in the NY Post, and they didn’t shirk on telling about the gay boy’s suspicious death.

“Mrs. Maggie don’t deserve this!”

“Three estates!”

“Favored furs when the weathered was cold enough!”

“Paul’s daddy didn’t look like Boss Hogg, but that’s who he is!”

[quote]“Mrs. Maggie don’t deserve this,” said Gabby Thomas, 62, whose hunting club is adjacent to the Murdaughs’ lodge. “She’d give you the shirt off her back, that one. Wonderful woman. Them others? I don’t know. But she sure spoiled Paul. I heard him talk back to her once so bad in the beauty parlor once that I made him apologize.”

Timmy sounds like he was a nightmare brat.

I wish Mrs. Gabby would have said Mrs. Maggie “spoilt Paul.”

Why would she say that, r137? She's not English.

Jonah Hill as Alex (dad / husband of the murdered ppl). It could transform Jonah Hill's career. Not sure he could play such a hard-edged character.

Just found footage of Paul killing the housekeeper. While his friends referred to his alter ego as Timmy, within the family he was known as Damien.

I have to say in the interest of fairness, I knew a couple people not unlike Paul/Timmy and they eventually sorted out their shit and became fully worthwhile people.

Sometimes you can outgrow stupidity.

And sometimes you get killed.

True enough, R142.

Good article at R135. Thank you for posting that. I now feel qualified to comment on everything to do with these murders.

Feel sad for the mother of the young gay man who died mysteriously. Very sad.

I think Michael Rapaport should play the father Alex with lots support from a dialect coach. He can be incredibly menacing like a loaded cannon, which I think the dad secretly is in real life.

Noland Gould could be a good Tummy/Paul.

Olivia Holt as Mallory

I know many of you will fight me on this, but Melissa McCarthy as Maggie.

Cameron Monaghan as Buster, we know he’s 100% down and committed to doing gay sex scenes for the flashbacks with Stephen Smith.

"What's that smell in this room? Didn't you notice it, Buster? Didn't you notice a powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this room? There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity. You can smell it. It smells like death."

Connor Jessup as Stephen Smith.

Kate Winslet and Julianne Nicholson as Momma Beach and Momma Smith.

You bitches are already casting the Lifetime Original Movie. Unbelievable.

Brendan Frazer could play Ma Murdough. He’d need a wig. As well as a few furs sewn together from “Amazing Mrs. Maisel” wardrobe department.

Melanie Hutsell is Right. There.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Steve Buscemi as Groundskeeper Crowe.

Excellent R157

R156 Only if she willing to go full on Shelly Winters Poseidon Adventure for it.

Brett Butler as Ma Mur-dawg

Ron Weasley as one of the sons.

R160, I love it. That can be her comeback

Reba McEntire as the local sheriff who has had enough of this family's shit.

Well, the Post screwed this detail up. He slapped and spit on his girlfriend, not Mallory Beach.

[Quote]Anthony Cook — Mallory’s boyfriend and Paul’s childhood friend — testified that Paul got in a fight with Mallory on the way home, not long before the crash, and slapped her. Paul allegedly plowed the boat into a bridge piling, causing Mallory to be thrown from the craft.

“The four are Paul’s ex-girlfriend Morgan Doughty, Beach’s boyfriend, Anthony Cook, his cousin, Connor Cook, and Connor’s girlfriend, Miley Altman,”

OK, I’m calling it a shoot out!

Maggie had the SAME split personality when she drank and her name was TINA. When the bodies were originally found, both were in underwear - with Maggie/Tina wearing a fur. Timmy shot Tina and Tina shot Timmy.

Burr-Hamilton style?

John Slattery as Keith Morrison, who's coming to investigate

Logan Marshall-Green, as vengeful C.B. Rowe, the fired hired hand, who's illicit affair with Ma Murdough was about to be exposed by Timmy.

Yes, but the vengeful C.B. Rowe was called Paul when he drank too much.

Did he strip down to his boxers too?

Of course, R170.

Off Thread, but Lindsey Graham is Martha when she drinks and there’s a bustier.

Lindsey can always find a reason to get himself into a merry widow,

R172…well, it does slim a wider waist and accentuate the bosom. What’s not to love?

Pacey can play Timmy

Ansel from WSS should play Timmy.

Ed Sheeran as the surviving brother.

Did FLW ever get any sleep? He seems to have a house in every city.

R177 He did live to be 91 and his career actually bottomed out multiple times only to be revived. But he really must be considered one of the greatest creative geniuses America ever produce, though unfortunately he was homophobic.

[quote]Well, the Post screwed this detail up. He slapped and spit on his girlfriend, not Mallory Beach.

If only there were . . . I don't know . . . say, a deposition or two that they could have read to clear that up.

Typical Murdoch trash reporting.

R163 They can rework her Marc Cherry pilot from 2017.

[quote]In the summer the Murdaughs spent time on their 17-foot powerboat.

Must've been really croweded with staff included. Unless they were towed behind in a dinghy.

[quote]“She’d give you the shirt off her back, that one.."

But don't you dare ask about one of her minks.

[quote]“She’d give you the shirt off her back, that one.."

Southern women of her class know how to project an image in public.

It's when the front door is closed and the booze is poured that you get to see the real person.

How could those four chunky people fit on a 17 foot boat?

A 17-foot boat is just sad.

R163, You made me spit out my La Croix!! Some brilliant DL work going on.

R153 Somebody had to do it. Do you think that trash and filth on Twitter could be trusted with such important decisions?

I love how everyone here thinks Rowe is going to commit double murder over losing a part-time job taking care of a hunting lodge. This isn't Versailles - it's a wooded property and a not that spectacular, pragmatic lodge. There just isn't that much to do except look out for it and clean up a little here and there.

There are no grand lawns, gardens, or much else to upkeep. MAYBE they kept their hunting dogs there - but I doubt it.

This just isn't enough of a motive - particularly if you KNOW your name has been dragged because of a scandal years before.

All of this is Alex's plan to throw suspicion on Rowe. And coming home just 30 minutes after the murder may seem a bit too obvious - but it is what you'd want to do to make sure the job is finished and to clean up anything.

[quote]though unfortunately he was homophobic.

And we know what that means...

Frank Lloyd Wright had a team of architects, as any successful designer in any field does. You think he did more than make sketches for this place? The rest was done by his team and he looked it over and made approvals or changes.

Newsflash - Calvin Klein doesn't design or sew up every piece of clothing with his name on it either.

[quote] though unfortunately he was homophobic.

I don't know why this made me think of this, but since the attention of the country and the world seems to be on my beloved South Carolina, for something non racial. One interesting bit of gay history are the love letters written between Sen. and Gov. James Henry Hammond and his college friend Mr. Thomas Jefferson Withers. They are some of the only written proof of homosexual relationships from the Antebellum period to have survived. They are held by the University of South Carolina. Yes Hammond was a horrible person who owned slaves, he was known to rape two of them regularly and then he molested his nieces who just happened to be the daughters of another Governor Wade Hampton II. Still it is a fascinating read to see how two horny sons of the Old South talked dirty to one another.

^ Interesting. That could be a thread unto itself. From what I gather, Hammond was a hung top (yet sadly, a perv rapist)?

R191 Can you imagine sexting someone today in that grammatical and linguistic form? Haha!

Or on Grindr!

R190, Wright visited Lakeland Florida many times over the 20 years he designed 18 buildings for a college campus. He instructed the students who helped assemble the raw materials to construct the buildings and for several of their dedications. His son-in-law was on-site supervisor, but he was supervised by Wright.

Being from the area, I've been to campus many times and they are stunning. They have the only planetarium he created.

Any developments?

Why haven't they arrested Rowe if everyone thinks he's the murderer?

r197 because you need something called Proof

R16. Inappropriate conduct with a student isn’t that big of a deal

Interesting that Buster and Paul went to different high schools.

Paul went to one known for disciplining its students.

Sounds like Mr. & Mrs. Trump sending problem child Donald off to "military" school.

Except this family are Dems.

R201 Bad kids knows no party.

Jean Smart needs to play Fur Mama's mother and say, "Now, Maggie, darling, you know as well as I do, that boy just ain't right."

[quote] the Murdaugh family portrayed him as a ‘disgruntled’ ex employee who was recently fired. Reports state that when Alex fired Rowe a fight ensued, between the two, whereby Paul jumped in and began fighting Rowe as well

Getting in a serious physical altercation with his former boss and then the son joining in paints Rowe as being a hot-tempered, short-fused person. That act of rage on Rowe's part leans suspicion heavily in his direction. Of course, Alex could have planned the firing and the brawl to set him up.

But, what's Alex's motivation? The shame of a perpetually troubling son who may have been involved in the deaths--as in murder--of two other people? Maybe. But, these types of families don't know what shame is and, no matter the crime, they'll do whatever it takes to protect each other. Just look at the Trumps. They're a mirror of the Murdaughs.

I wonder how Buster (awful name!) is dealing with all of this.

Not only has he had three deaths in the family, two gruesome, but I suspect he is deeply closeted and suddenly has to deal with newspapers writing about how he likes the dick.

[quote]The shame of a perpetually troubling son who may have been involved in the deaths--as in murder--of two other people?

Alex knew his son was involved in THREE deaths: the gay nurse, the housekeeper, and the girl on the boat.

Buster is eating his feelings but good.

Buster will come out as a trans woman of colour.

Fuck off, T obsessive.

In their defense, this atrocious family has given us all a precious gift, and I am here for it.

[quote]Buster will come out as a trans woman of colour.

He had to wait until someone murdered Paul -- or Timmy would have killed him.

[quote] Alex knew his son was involved in THREE deaths

Yes, I know that, but death of the girl on the boat was manslaughter at best, which is why I wrote "deaths--as in murder--of two other people" referring to the nurse and housekeeper.

Were there witnesses to the physical fight between Rowe and Alex and son? Or is it only Alex's word that Rowe attacked him?

Nary a word about Buster, it’s true. He looks like an Aspie to me.

After a certain point, Maggie stopped posting awkward photos of her sons with pretty girls. Futile.

R200 I’ve only seen speculation, but apparently Paul went through a few schools getting kicked out for behavior issues. He graduated from a private school that was more likely to put up with things especially if greased with extra endowed funds from the family. The break in at the apartment was the first confirmation that he was actually in college somewhere and had continued despite the accident.

[quote]Buster will come out as a trans woman of colour.

I suppose "Ginger" is a color (no "u" in the USA.)

What was the source of Paul's rage?

R217 Booze, coke, meth, and mental illness.

How do we know they are Dems? Historically, the elder politicians in the family would have been Dems because, before the Southern strategy, many in the South were Dems because they still hated the Republican party and Lincoln because of the war and freeing the slaves.

Many Southerners abandoned the Dem party after the Civil Rights movement and through a couple of decades of the Republican Southern strategy to race bait and make them switch parties. It worked.

I have a hard time believing they are currently members of the Dem party.

[quote]How do we know they are Dems?

I think the New York Post said that.

But they also said that Paul spit at Mallory instead of his girlfriend.

So don't trust the crackerjack reporting of a Murchoch business.

R220 - of course the Post would put something in there like that. It's like Fox News who reports on republican scandals and 'in error' put a D by their name instead of an R.

Small retraction follows that no one pays attention to.

Does anyone know if 'Rowe' has a first name? That would be helpful.

She’s got a few posts on her FB page that might indicate her political leanings. Personally, I am not motivated enough to discern them. She’s dead. What does it matter?

R219 They are and remain Dems, because they live in a "black belt" county and area. To have a political say and power in Hampton County, you vote Democrat. While a Republican has managed to win as Solicitor, in the circuit, since Murdaugh left, it is because of Beaufort county and their military and well off voters. Many of the counties in the circuit are heavily black. In the most recent election, for instance, Biden won Hampton county with 57% of the vote while losing the state with only 43%.

I don't know the Murdaughs personally, but as someone who has spent sometime working in the SC political world and knowing what is going on in both parties, the Murdaughs are Democrats. They might not be like Democrats in California, but they are South Carolina Democrats.

R222 - because someone keeps bringing it up in both threads.

Everyone keeps talking about the family money and dynasty. The problem is - Alex's father had what - 5 kids? There's a finite amount of money to dole out among them - even with political influence.

They could have been rich, but not wealthy and some of these lawsuits or a potential divorce could really drain those assets quickly.

Now - what about Buster? Where the fuck was he? Paul's apartment at college was accessed just after the murders. You telling me Rowe or an accomplice would have gone to Paul's college apartment? That would seem to be only a family member would have access - or law enforcement. I don't think this country crew of investigators would have the foresight to quickly drive up to the campus and secure items there.

R221 His name is Claude B. Rowe III, he was a Science teacher at the school and this article is about the conclusion of the incident and is from 2011 when he was 53. From the alumni website there is a photo Maggie is credited for in 2012 that mentions she’s from a new family, so it seems like Paul’s time there happened after the incident and there wasn’t an overlap. Though obviously the local press covered it with his full name as in evidence here.

My problem is I’ve only heard speculation that he worked for the family and haven’t seen it verified in print.

R224 The weird thing about the apartment is that the police went like a week later and from what one source said it took awhile to get a search warrant. But do you really need a search warrant to gather evidence from a murder victim’s home? Or, did dad somehow insist that it couldn’t be searched without a warrant to buy time for the family, or the fixers, this family must have fixers with all the shit they have been involved in, to go there and expunge it of evidence or anything damaging to the family and leaving the door purposely open to make it seem like a crime has been committed. More down South shady dealings.

Oh that’s terrible.

[quote] He had to wait until someone murdered Paul -- or Timmy would have killed him.

Maybe it was Buster's trans woman of colour's alter ego that killed Ma Murdough & Timmy?

Maybe the hunting lodge was where Buster kept his dresses. Maybe Ma Murdough discovered them and called Buster over to confront him about his transvestism.

Things turned ugly, literally, and Buster, in a fit of anger, fired on transphobic Ma Murdough. Timmy emerges and Buster decides that his dirty little secret must remain, just that, and he aways Timmy too!

R225, good job! As of yesterday his FB page is still public. Maggie is a FB friend, FWIW.

R226 - or he shared the apartment with someone else on the lease and they had to get permission from the other party to enter? I'm not sure how those things work. Or they need permission from the owner of the property - the apartment building's owner? Again - I don't know.

Sounds like something Buster would have easy access to. But why leave the door OPEN? That's stupid.

I want to hear more about South Carolina Dems.

R229 - can you link the facebook profiles please?

Maybe the old perv groundskeeper was blowing "Timmy", when he was fucked up and needed release .

[quote] I don't think this country crew of investigators would have the foresight to quickly drive up to the campus and secure items there.

Local wouldn't but SLED would.

We need Goren and Eames on this.

R234 - they can't even get their acronym right.

R236 The name of the agency is South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, which would be SCLED. SCLED would be hard to pronounce as an acronym, so they are known as SLED, the State Law Enforcement Division.

Or they don't need a slick acronym and can just go by LED like many other states? Who uses the generic term 'state' without identifying the state, like everywhere else?

I'm sticking with the dead girl's family revenge hit. No, to the grounds keeper, no to the father, no to Buster. Unless more is revealed her family is responsible.

Plus their consolation message to the family after the murder of mother and son is far too long and flowery. Overkill.

R238 the main newspaper of record in SC is just called The State. We have a bit of a complex about our state. The way many here feel about SC, can best be compared to the way Texans feel about Texas.

I'm hoping it's the dead girl's family revenge hit. There is no other way Timmy would get even a drop of justice.

But Mom and Timmy and Epstein really could be in the Maldives. Which is kind of interesting as well.

SCMurdaugh Murders: South Carolina Attorney General Must Step In And Remove ‘Rogue’ Solicitor Duffie Stone’s continued failure to recuse himself is creating major perception problems …

[quote] [R224] The weird thing about the apartment is that the police went like a week later and from what one source said it took awhile to get a search warrant. But do you really need a search warrant to gather evidence from a murder victim’s home? Or, did dad somehow insist that it couldn’t be searched without a warrant to buy time for the family, or the fixers, this family must have fixers with all the shit they have been involved in, to go there and expunge it of evidence or anything damaging to the family and leaving the door purposely open to make it seem like a crime has been committed.

Considering that Dad showed up at the hospital and, as it turns out, no one on the boat submitted to alcohol tests, I'm guessing Dad would not consent to a search. Hence, the search warrant. What the cops can do is to "seize" the house (rope it off or whatever) while they wait for a judge to sign a search warrant. That way, there's nothing going into or coming out of the house pending the search warrant.

Lake being searched near the crime scene.

Rumor is the wife was about to file for divorce. Paul was psychically abusive with females. Guess where he learned that behavior? Daddy. The police disputed a statement that Alex has an air tight albi. That seems telling. Crime scene tampered with. He shot Paul. His wife heard the gunshots and came running from the house. He shoots her dead. I think he did it. I have from the start. He practically owns the town and law enforcement there. I think he felt pretty confident that he would get away with it. We shall see.

R237, many acronyms are not able to be pronounced; that doesn't mean you screw them up. Can you pronounce FBI? IRS? CIA? Your argument is as stupid as the SLED acronym.

Could be Dad shot mom and son exited from the house so he had to go, too.

ETA: Don't know if this was mentioned but the security cameras were turned off that night from the inside of the lodge.

More about domestic violence/ mom about to file for divorce?

Fur Coat Mama was about to run away with Groundskeeper Rowe?

R246 the definition of acronym:

[quote] a word (such as NATO, radar, or laser) formed from the initial letter or letters of each of the successive parts or major parts of a compound term

FBI is more accurately referred to as initialism. The rule tends to be that anything more than 3 letters is an acronym that is expected to be pronounced as a word. NATO isn't N-A-T-O but pronounced as Nay-Toe. SCLED would not be pronounceable and would be too long and cumbersome for initialism, SLED is a cool word, that is easy to remember and projects an aura of strength.

Sure, R251. Just like AFL-CIO.

Just stop while you're losing.

I think SCLED could be pronounceable if it understood the the “C” is silent in this case.

R252 Those were TWO very well known initialism labeled organizations that merged, so they are an exception. If we merged the FBI and ATF, I'd fully expect it to be named the FBI-ATF.

R253 That would be too much work.

I pronounce it SCHLED.

R255 Oh Liza, go drunk you’re home.

I pronounce it moleSCLED!

It's pronounced "redneck."

Why are the police searching the swamp area, when they told local residents that they've no reason to worry, as they weren't searching for any random killer?

Is that normal police procedure?

Weapons search maybe?

Also, isn't it convenient that he claimed to be out shooting at the lodge right before going to the hospital? So of course he would have gun shot residue on his hands.

Maybe Rowe is trying to frame Pop Murdough?

What do people hunt in that part of the country?

Are they still living off squirrel perloo?

I have no idea about the hunting because I do not believe in hunting animals, I think it is inhumane. It just seems very suspicious that he told LE that he was shooting guns right before leaving for the hospital. If he failed a GSR test he had the perfect excuse. A little to convenient in my opinion.

[quote] A little to convenient in my opinion.

Oh, dear!

[quote]What do people hunt in that part of the country?

It's tradition. They grow up that way. I have a friend in North Carolina who is very well off. He used to go hunting with his father. He now goes hunting with his children.

All of his dogs take part.

Search the cabins! Is anyone searching the cabins?!?

Yes, R266, I am aware of that. But what animal are they hunting?

What animals is it hunting season for in S Carolina at the moment?

From SC's Dept. of Natural Resources: Alligator Bear Coyote Deer Dove Migratory Birds including Waterfowl Small Game - Includes: Beaver, fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, other species Turkey Wild Hog

This story is interesting - But imagine how much better it would be if at least ONE of these characters was remotely attractive. The only half way decent one is the dead girl’s bf. Dad and sons are so unattractive - nothing worse than a ruddy faced ginger. Makes the fur-loving mama look good in comparison and she reminded me of Linda Tripp at first glance…

The mother wore FAX fur, so she had some level of decency.

Yes it was decent of her to use her fur to communicate r272. Although I don't know how she fit it through the fax machine.

I have this feeling that little Buster isn't as strong as all the other girls, and he'll eventually lose it and snuff himself. A shotgun, as opposed to a rifle would be my bet...he knows that he isn't a very good shot, and wants to get it done.

Was Buster implicated in killing the gay nurse?

Did the brother do it together?

R274- Was he as obnoxious as his brother? Why do you think he will off himself? Guilty conscience about Steve?

^^I just think the situation will become overwhelming, and he won't be able to take the heat. Can't give a specific explanation for it, just one of those feelings.

Was it Buster or Paul who murdered the gay kid?

R277, his brother and mother are murdered and the town does everything but throw a victory parade.

Whyever would he be upset.

R270 Thank you.

I wonder if Pa Murdough shot the animal that Ma Murdough's coat is made of as a love token.

[quote] From SC's Dept. of Natural Resources: Alligator Bear Coyote Deer Dove Migratory Birds including Waterfowl Small Game - Includes: Beaver, fox, opossum, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, other species Turkey Wild Hog

It doesn’t look like Mother and Son are on this list, so they were out of season.

When they catch whoever did this, they’re gonna be in trouuuuuble!

News reporters are having to sue the police department to get information released.

R275, there was a tip in the Stephen Smith investigation. I attached the screenshot.

Buster Murdaugh indeed has a FB friend “Donterrio Aiken” (and a “Ro Aiken”). They went to Wade Hampton HS, where Buster went. They are large black men.

Buster hunting with the fellas.

Buster looks like a ginger Rumer Willis.

R284 That looks like on of those BlacksOnBoys videos just before they all incessantly rail him.

What are the months for the mother and son season?

R286 I saw them bukkakke a ginger once in one of those.

Could they have been busting their nuts over Buster?

Thanks, r283. Earlier in this thread or in the last one, someone posted they'd heard a rape kit was done on Stephen and it disappeared.

FR284, some good-looking dudes in that picture. And Buster is actually cute in context.

R286, that’s what I thought, too.

R289 Are they sure it disappeared or part of the backlog of untested rape kits?

R284 - that pic is almost 10 years old. It's a high school pic. Buster seems to be bustin' at the seams nowadays.

I don't know, Mariska. I just repeated what someone else posted earlier.

So have any other titbits of information surfaced that we need to add to the mix?

That photo of Buster and his hunting buddies is just mind blowing.

Housekeeper picture: Trip and Fall

Stephen Smith picture: Hit and Run

Mallory Beach picture: Boating “Accident”

I wish they would have kept with the writing rhythm and said Mallory Beach: Drunk and Dump

Must be a big salacious story if the UK's Sun is featuring it.

Buster has that Eric Trump look about him.

I have problem with Stephen being reduced to “Dead Gay Teen” in the subheading, when the housekeeper got her name in hers. And it is a slap in the face for his mother to get a call from SLED to rule out the family’s involvement in the murders and not looking into the murder of her son because it’s now apparent that the investigation was severely compromised. But with all this Stephen and Buster intimacy coverage it is to the point that he needs to come out with a statement that “He did not have sexual relations with that gay teen!”

It’s interesting that many of these small presses have become focused on the death of a gay man tied to this case, but yet the Gay press remains completely silent, or distracted by Gay pride month?

So where in Hell is Paul/Timmy? The outer ring of the 7th Circle is for murderers, or would he be punished more for being a fugly ginger?

I think I may have to shell out for a subscription to that independent local paper. This is the most fun I've had on DL since the Great Canadian Twink Rampage.

I want to know where the hell Buster is hiding. Did they slip him out of the country?

R303 Which one the FITS News or the Island Packet? If you do please post highlights from the stories.

[quote]It’s interesting that many of these small presses have become focused on the death of a gay man tied to this case, but yet the Gay press remains completely silent, or distracted by Gay pride month?

Shot down by the editorial board: "I don't see the Trans angle in this."

R304 Probably the FITS News.

Laurel Holloman to play Maggie, Rosie to play the groundskeeper.

R295, one of the things I noticed is that Maggie made a post that they were moving to Edisto Beach in July 2020. It didn’t seem to be a kind of “heading to the beach for the summer! See you in September!” kind of thing. Usually people go right after Memorial Day. Or sooner.

I wondered if it was because of Covid. Or if she were avoiding something in town…

The latter seems likely, R308...

I think it's funny how people in the press refer to them as "South Carolina's Most Prominent Legal Family."

I'm sure that gets some raised eyebrows in Charleston.

If you were avoiding something in town, would you post about where you're going on Facebook?

R303 - ROFL - The Great Canadian Twink Rampage!

This epic true crime story that rocked the nation and Datalounge is finally coming to the big screen, starring Justin Bieber in a performance critics are saying "is he even acting or is he just being himself?"

Chatter on Reddit is that there was a report by Trey Gowdy on FoxNews and he said the victims were “bound”. The video has been scrubbed from the Internet.

???

R311, because people announce before they flounce.

The family boat is called, quite appropriately, "Blacksheep"

R306 just so you know, FITSNEWS is a very libertarian outlet. But, they really focus on muckraking. The founder seems to hate anyone of the “establishment,” regardless of party. He especially hates the good ole boy network. FITS is a must read for anyone in politics or journalism in SC. There isn’t a detail too salacious for him, especially when it helps to tarnish the “great and powerful.” So yes, if you want to subscribe, I’m sure he will provide more than enough details to this story to make it worthwhile. Side note, the founder started FITS during Nikki Haley’s run for governor when he created a scandal by alleging he and her had a long term affair and that he wasn’t the only one.

What thoughts about the two guns used to murder mom and son? I think this is critical info.

Did both bodies have bullets in them from both guns? This would indicate two shooters.

[quote]Did both bodies have bullets in them from both guns?

No. All the reports I have read have the son killed by multiple shots from a shotgun.

And the mother killed by multiple shots from a semi-automatic assault rifle.

It is either two killers or one killer who wanted it to look like two killers.

[quote] Side note, the founder started FITS during Nikki Haley’s run for governor when he created a scandal by alleging he and her had a long term affair and that he wasn’t the only one.

Oh Dear.

Can you ask FITS if they'll do a DL Corporate discount for any of us who want to sign up too.

It sounds hilarious!

[quote]The family boat is called, quite appropriately, "Blacksheep"

I'm pretty sure that's not the family boat, R315...it looks more like a charter fishing boat they probably all went out on. Numerous articles stated the family boat was 17', probably like a Boston Whaler, or a Grady White. The boat in your pic is much larger than 17'.

Two weeks after Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were found murdered at their hunting lodge in Colleton County, South Carolina, the lead investigative agency released some initial incident reports in the high-profile investigation.

On June 7, 2021, 52-year-old Maggie Murdaugh and 22-year-old Paul Murdaugh, both of Hampton, S.C., were both found murdered at the family’s 1,700-acre hunting property on 4147 Moselle Road near Islandton, S.C.

Fourteen days after the murders, officials from S.C. Law Enforcement Division (SLED) released documents “for the sake of transparency” revealing some information in the double homicide investigation. The documents are heavily redacted copies of the supplemental incident reports from the Colleton County Sheriff’s Office — the agency that originally responded to Alex Murdaugh‘s 911 call around 10:07 p.m. June 7.

The sheriff’s office asked SLED to take over the case due to the complexity of the investigation and the agency’s multiple ties to the powerful Murdaugh family. SLED was contacted 21 minutes after Alex Murdaugh called 911.

The heavily redacted police reports don’t offer any new information about the weapons used in the murders or possible suspects in the case.

According to police reports, deputies arrived on scene at 11:25 a.m. and immediately started investigating the case as a double murder.

The incident reports appear to show that the integrity of the crime scene was maintained until SLED agents arrived on scene at 11:47 p.m.

According to the reports, it appears that Colleton County Sheriff’s deputies located at least two vehicles at the crime scene and impounded at least one vehicle from the scene.

FBTwEmailPrint Two weeks after Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were found murdered at their hunting lodge in Colleton County, South Carolina, the lead investigative agency released some initial incident reports in the high-profile investigation.

On June 7, 2021, 52-year-old Maggie Murdaugh and 22-year-old Paul Murdaugh, both of Hampton, S.C., were both found murdered at the family’s 1,700-acre hunting property on 4147 Moselle Road near Islandton, S.C.

Fourteen days after the murders, officials from S.C. Law Enforcement Division (SLED) released documents “for the sake of transparency” revealing some information in the double homicide investigation.

[quote]According to police reports, deputies arrived on scene at 11:25 a.m

That must be PM.

I can't imagine that the police showed up over 12 hours after the 911 call.

crazy-eyed gingers

Buster certainly blimped-out in that pic. Ugh.

R325 I loved Paul's friends in their deposition talking about how silly it was that anyone at a liquor store would look at Buster's ID and think Paul was him.

"Buster was, like, 200-something and over six foot. Paul was short and slim."

"Buster was super chunky!"

Paul looks with-child in this vacation pic:

R326, I guess they didn’t know him when he was in the photo at r327, haha.

Speaking of Buster, why does no one ever do that? Not a single word about him. Did he even go to the funeral?

I saw people on Reddit claiming that Buster was “out of town” three hours away at “his girlfriend’s”. Apparently she is at law school at USC. Yet he works for PMPED in Hampton.

^^ Long-distance relationship, I guess.

So really the only new information from the heavily redacted reports is that a car was brought into the sheriff’s office for examination.

R328 It is not three hours away. It is about an hour and a half. That is one of the selling points of USC. You can be practically anywhere in the state within 2hours. So the beach or the mountains are only a short car ride away.

R331, oh thanks for that. I have no idea, that’s what I read.

Also, as long as I’ve got you here… how close are all the Murdaugh properties? Home in Hampton, hunting lodge in Islandton, beach house in Edisto. It didn’t look as though any of them were very far from each other, and your comment sort of confirmed that for me.

R332 Hampton to Islandton is about 15 min. Edisto is about and hour and a half from Hampton.

[Quote]“for the sake of transparency”

Uh, huh. I came on to the thread to ask how long it takes for a Freedom of Information act lawsuit takes to be decided. Certainly, this can't be the response to the suit, right?

I was listening to a podcast of two Greenville S.C. women who do true crime and they said it is a state law that a police report must be made public within two weeks of a crime. It seems they did what was required by law on the 14th day with the minimal amount of information they could come up with to release.

OK R335 here again, I did find in this June 15 AP News release about the crime verification of the S.C. law that requires crime reports to be released in 14 days. So, basically, they did the very minimum they needed to do at the last minute. This wasn’t really about sharing any particular information because of something new or of their own volition, just meeting requirements.

So the father called 911 at 10 pm and it took an hour and a half for police to arrive?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

R337 My understanding is the local police responded right away and arrived promptly. The state police were then called in arrived later after 11:30 PM.

Given that the bodies were still warm when the police arrived, did they set up a road block or start combing the area for a shooter?

So, did they drive, or were driven, by car from the house to the dog pens and that’s why they took it in for evidence?

Casting Steve Buscemi as the groundskeeper is such a cliche. You'd want someone seemingly normal but with a subtle creepy undervibe, like Tom Cruise.

Tom Cruise will only ever be Tom Cruise. Need an unknown or seasoned character actor.

Reading through the redacted docs, there’s another mystery. In the list of attachments, there’s a reference made to “GIBSON 27”. There are documents “RICHARD MURDAUGH 27”, “PAUL MURDAUGH 27” and “MARGARET MURDAUGH 27”. And then the same series using the Murdaugh names plus the number 29.

Those are all the people who were victims of the crime at Moselle. So who is Gibson? Was someone else there?

Shea Whigham as the gamekeeper.

Someone on Facebook found this article. Maybe Paul had a pyromania stage as a kid?

From the article:

[quote]While the fire was quickly distinguished

The Murdaugh's would have it no other way.

Facebook provided a follow up article about the arrest for the arson, so either Paul didn’t do it or Alex paid this person off to take the fall. No motive is given. There’s also mention about armed robbery by a Murdaugh, so Paul isn’t the only ne’er-do-well in the extended family.

FEUD: Paul Murdaugh vs The Voices In His Head?

R349 I think you mean Timmy vs. Paul.

[Quote] I think you mean Timmy vs. Paul.

That's snappier, yes.

It's incredible that there is so much previous nefarious activity by this family.

They certainly do come across as being entitled folk, even if they weren't.

R348 The Augusta Chronicle is in common ownership with Bluffton Today and the Island Packet, and is a major regional paper.

Wow, some good may actually come out of this heinous crime! #Justice4StephenSmith

Imagine if this all ends with Buster being escorted off in chains to jail, it will push the Greek Tragedy to even grater heights.

Anybody have access to this Island Packet article? I’m interested in if they cite particular TikToker or True Crime podcasts?

The S.C. Law Enforcement Division on Tuesday reopened the investigation into the 2015 death of 19-year-old Stephen Smith based on information gathered during the Murdaugh double homicide investigation, a SLED spokesperson confirmed.

In the wake of the June 7 murders of Paul Murdaugh, 22, and his mother, Maggie, 52, rumors have swirled about the possibility of the Murdaugh family’s connection to Smith’s death.

SLED’s reopened investigation was first reported by FITSNews Tuesday evening. Click to resize

Smith’s body was found on July 8, 2015, on Sandy Run Road, near Hampton.

Investigators reported he was the victim of a hit-and-run accident, despite police reports showing no evidence of that.

Sandy Smith, the young man’s mother, previously told The State Media Co. in 2019 that the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach and implicated Paul Murdaugh brought renewed focus to her son’s death. But some questions may never be answered, she said.

“There would never be justice for Stephen in Hampton County,” she told The State.

In 2019, the Murdaugh family declined to comment on discussions about their family posted to social media, calling it “an outlet for unfortunate fabrications and unfounded comments based not on fact but based on speculation.”

There have been no official statements linking the Murdaugh family to Smith’s death, but SLED’s decision to reopen the case raises questions about the family’s connection to the incident

How had I never seen this before? What the hell does “Paul never met a stranger” mean? And all that fluff about being a good person, tell that to all who were terrorized by fucking Timmy!

Mother Maggie’s.

The FITS News article is quite substantial, despite the pop up I could read it between the lines. I must say that as OOP, the one reluctance I had about initial posting was there was no Gay angle, I hadn’t come across the Stephen Smith story on my introduction to the case. Now this news where what almost had to be a fatal gay bashing that was dismissed and buried for half a decade might actually see some some resolution and light of day. This could potentially be a case that could have national reverberations, it really strikes me how similar Stephen Smith is to Matthew Shepard. But it’s interesting that despite the backward place Matthew came from he and his family got justice, yet decades later there are still enclaves and powerful people who can make crimes against gay people just disappear because we are still just second class citizens in our own country.

R359, the coverup would have happened if Smith had been a pretty girl. If those Murdaugh turds were involved, it was going to be be swept under the rug. But yeah, the gay angle didn’t help. I hope Stephen gets justice.

R360 I agree that it could have happened just as well if it had been a young woman, but the motivation to kill her wouldn’t have been the same and the redneck, good ole boy cop and law enforcement officials might be reluctant to do it unlike seeing the covering up and thwarting justice of the murder of some little queer would have been something they could be easily swayed to do and be complicit in as they would have felt he got what he deserved.

They looked well on their way to sweep Mallory under the rug, and she was nothing if not the Southern (and genuinely) pretty girl.

So, based on the road where Stephen’s body was found and the address of the house the Murdaughs were in during the arson, if they stayed in that house, the distance is about six miles and a little over ten minutes away.

It’s kind of disturbing how Stephen’s death mirrors what Ennius imagines how Jack Twist dies.

[quote]it will push the Greek Tragedy to even grater heights.

Like a cheese one?

Have they smuggled Buster to Mexico yet??

Here's some text from the FITS News version:

"Almost six years after her son Stephen Smith was killed in Hampton County, South Carolina, Sandy Smith finally got the news she’s been hoping for all these years.

The South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) has opened an investigation into the death of Stephen Smith, SLED spokesperson Tommy Crosby told FITSNews Tuesday.

Sandy Smith told FITSNews that SLED agents visited her home Tuesday to tell her the big news — her son’s case was being looked at with fresh eyes. She said that the SLED Midlands team will be conducting the investigation.

“I’ve been waiting on this day for 2174 days,”Sandy told FITSNews. “Thank you, God!”

Crosby said SLED opened the investigation “based on information gathered during the course of the double murder investigation of Paul and Maggie Murdaugh.”

One of those cases was Stephen Smith — a 19-year-old man from Hampton, S.C. who was found dead in the middle of Sandy Run Road on July 8, 2015. Investigators with the S.C. Highway Patrol (SCHP) received multiple tips in the aftermath of Smith’s death linking his untimely demise to the Murdaugh family.

SLED officials did not say if they were investigating Stephen’s case as a homicide. Officials did not provide any details about what information in the double homicide investigation led them to open Smith’s case.

SLED is the same agency in charge of the high-profile Murdaugh murders investigation.

Officially, Smith’s death was classified as a hit and run, which is why it was being handled by SCHP. Now, law enforcement officials are questioning that decision as SLED takes over the case."

This news show has been covering the story and seems to have some unique information. They mentioned that one of the boating party was tested for ammunitions residue two days after the murders (most likely Mallory’s boyfriend who is also a big hunter) and that one of the guns was found at the crime scene.

Oh, one other interesting fact from the video above, there were passengers on the boat the night of Mallory death who are related to people who work in the PMPED Law office.

[quote]No one was more loving and genuine than Paul, and because of this, his personality was one-of-a-kind.

Apparently not.

I wonder if they found info about Stephen Smith on Paul's computer.

You know someone is dull when the only thing they can think to write about them in their obituary is that they liked to cheer on a sports team.

That “never met a stranger” horseshit is always in these corn pone obituaries.

Interesting in that news report that a local said the investigation "is a ticking time bomb."

Those people know shit.

R359, Matt Shepard’s family got justice because they were wealthy and well-connected in the oil business in Wyoming. Story as old as time…

The new detail about one fun being found at the crime scene of the double murder leads me to believe that Paul/Timmy went out with a gun to see why the dogs were barking. He was ambushed and killed. Mom heard the shots and went out to see what Paul had found and was shot with the gun Paul took with him. The killer left their gun behind and took his own with him.

[quote]Paul/Timmy went out with a gun to see why the dogs were barking. He was ambushed and killed.

Then why wouldn't the killer flee? Why stick around to kill Fur Mama?

That I can’t answer, but one imagines that when you murder someone in the middle of nowhere you aren’t as worried about being immediately discovered. It also depends on how quickly the mother followed behind.

People are assuming that Fur Mama was collateral damage.

But I can imagine that she rubbed a lot of people the wrong way constantly covering for her psycho son(s)

Mother saw shooter and recognized him. She had to go.

"Honey, is that you? OMG!"

Tony's explanation and R378's follow-up cover the situation perfectly. It seems highly likely that that's what happened. Now...how was the assassin?

^WHO, not how. Maybe the killer advanced to the house, thinking that Dad was inside, intending to kill him. Mom came out, with or without her faux fur, and also got shot.

"I thought it was a grizzly bear. But it turned out it was Maggie."

I agree mama could have enemies, the Junior League down there is VICIOUS! There are pictures of the fab five on her Facebook page all in matching robes that Mrs. Maggie got them. I would look to see who was not invited, numbers 6, 7 and 8, to that girl getaway weekend and put them at the top of the suspect list too.

R382 She’s wearing that fucking fur coat in June? In South Carolina? In south South Carolina?

Momma Maggie’s phone missing at crime scene found the next day on country road!

That is one fucked up family. No wonder the grandfather looked forward to dying! He wanted out of that family. The psycho son looks evil in those photos of him when he was young. This is like THE BAD SEED in real life. Call him Rhoda. John Berendt should write a book on this as a sequel to MIDNIGHT IN THE GARDEN OF GOOD AND EVIL. Buster can be the updated drag queen.

Buster can be the eager submissive bottom who outwardly passes as straight.

[Quote] Call him Rhoda.

I'm the Mary!

Is it me or are Buster’s track pants full on straining against a big erection being surrounded by all those black boys and guns?

Black boys are so yummy! They satisfy my tummy!

So, I finally see it in print again, Stephen was coming home from a night nursing course the night he died, but his body was found at 4:00 AM, even if the class went until 10:00 there’s a huge gap of time there.

[quote]No wonder the grandfather looked forward to dying! He wanted out of that family.

The grandfather was a huge POS. On the video upthread, someone who runs a convenience store in town said the grandfather came in and said, "If you ever got robbed, you call me, and I'll tell YOU what happened."

That pic of young Buster is very odd.

It looks like something from a fetish porn site.

Because I'm surprised Buster was allowed to have Negro friends.

Trust me, I grew up in a hunting family, and what goes on at the hunting lodge, stays at the hunting lodge.

If at least one good thing comes out of this, it is the mother getting some kind of justice for her son. 2174 days. Damn.

R393, exceptions are made for athletes.

Um, there are plenty of AA rednecks. See Vance County.

[quote]The grandfather was a huge POS. On the video upthread, someone who runs a convenience store in town said the grandfather came in and said, "If you ever got robbed, you call me, and I'll tell YOU what happened."

Not surprising, R392. When I moved to Charleston it was as though I were fresh meat for the lawyers at oyster roasts and social events.

"Now if you should ever be in a position where you might think even for just a second that you might need a DUI lawyer --and lord knows most of us down here have been in that boat-- I want you to call me, no matter the time."

"Everybody who moves down here needs to know at least one lawyer he can call on. It's important that you just remember my name, or ask, everybody knows me, and I'll take care of things. And if I can't help, I'll find you the best man who can."

Or "Now if you ever get up against any kind of trouble that might involve criminal law..." Etc. etc

redbonenecks

Christ the Youtube and Podcast loons are starting to come out in full force on this. This lady has her own made up weird ass tarot deck that she does readings on and it’s totally creepy what she came up with. Hint if you watch these things, put the speed on 1.5 or 1.75, it goes faster and smoother.

Stephen Smith’s mother and twin sister are going to be on a Charleston ABC news show tonight.

This story IS as good as the Nazi Killer Twinks in Canada.

Speaking of Podcasts, this is the lead reporter at FITS News’s new podcast on the murders. She has been investigating it all since 2019 and FITS is considered the leader in reporting the stories. Warning, there’s a reason she’s a print journalist, very heavy vocal fry.

R402 It lacks a gay reporter live on the scene, though. Surely some plucky DLer can get down there?

You would think that Charleston would have some kind of gay press that would be reporting on this?

R405 Aren't all the Charleston Queens closeted?

Graham probably owns the paper!

They're too busy interviewing Jimmmmyyyyy in PA.

First part of ABC News story on Stephen, he looks very handsome in his graduation picture.

First there was Jimmmmyyyyy from PA.

Then came Timmmyyyyy from SC.

What’s next?

That podcast had news I didn't know: They have opened a new investigation into the Murdaugh family's obstruction of justice in connection with the boat death.

R410 Except Jimmy was beautiful and innocent. Timmy is a sadist crazy cunt.

Wow the investigators are really blowing open all of the skeletons in the Murdough's cupboards.

The problem the Murdaughs now have is that the investigations are getting less local.

Who's Jimmy? Don't you mean Stephen?

R415 Sigh. JIMMMMMMMMY was the star of the not hot Psycho shooting Foul Couple Threads.

I sat that thread out. I was still recovering from the Murderous Canadian Twinks thread.

R417 Nazi Killer Canadian Twink threads. they were golden.

Jeff & The Goys, together with the Chris Burrous threads are my favourite.

R418 To this day it bothers me that we'll probably never learn anything more about dear old Kam & Bryer.

But back to the Murdaughs -- any guesses about why the killer would take Maggie's phone? Were they hoping it was unlocked to get some info?

I don't want to work on Maggie's farm no more.

[quote] Stephen Smith’s mother and twin sister are going to be on a Charleston ABC news show tonight.

Is the twin sister the obese pigmy or the black woman?

R388 made me bust a gut laughing.

Re the phone, was the killer afraid that she’d taken a photo of him or recorded him? or even called 911. In which case he must have been satisfied that she hadn’t because he abandoned the phone. Still, you’d think he would’ve thrown it somewhere where it wouldn’t be recovered, just to confuse things even more. Wasn’t thinking straight.

Does anyone know if Burke Ramsey has an alibi?

[quote] So, I finally see it in print again, Stephen was coming home from a night nursing course the night he died, but his body was found at 4:00 AM, even if the class went until 10:00 there’s a huge gap of time there.

Hmm, the article also says Stephen said he had had a "fling" with one of the boys that she suspects, and was supposed to go deep seas fishing with one of them the same month he was killed.

It is looking more and more like one of those "hate" crimes where it isn't so much about hatred for the individual as it is hatred of themselves for being what they are.

However, I will say this. Growing up on the edge of rural and small town in this state, it is very common for groups of poor redneck guys and poor black guys to have that one well-off white preppy guy as a friend. They are also the ones that tend to come up with the crazy ideas that ends up getting the poorer kids in trouble. Because, he can get by with shit they can't, but he is oblivious to that. His family will usually try to pull a few strings for the poor guys, but in the end they will serve him up to take the fall if it is the only way to save themselves.

That dad looks like a big boozehound. He probably thought USC stood for University of Southern Comfort.

I can't wait for this case to blow open.

As of now, the Murdaugh family is mired in controversy around the unfortunate and untimely deaths of five people in a relatively short period of time. Two of them occurred under highly mysterious circumstances (one of which may have involved a gay fling gone awry), the third caused by an act of wanton boating recklessness (and alleged obstruction of justice by a powerful family), and lastly, two of the Murdaugh's own meeting their demise in a brutal double murder with the likely motivation behind it being an act of revenge. Phew, that's a handful.

If this was a crime thriller novel, I wouldn't be able to put the book down.

i wonder what the housekeeper said to Paul before Timmy shoved her down the stairs.

^^ "AAAAAAAAGGHHHH!!!"

R427 I resent that! The University of South Carolina graduated me and my liquor of choice throughout college was Southern Comfort. And, I look nothing like these people.

This story has finally made the front page of the Times - with that level of attention, beyond what FITS et al can produce, there'll come some real pressure on the cops to do their jobs.

We may get some proper revelations soon.

I just realized, both Mallory and Stephen were nineteenth, not a good age to be around the Murdaughs apparently, add in blond and reasonably attractive and I think you see a pattern emerging.

Maggie was also blonde and reasonably attractive compared to her family.

There’s a lot to unpack here about Stephen’s murder, let’s call it what it really is at this point. This is some type of independent news cable show and seems to be reasonably above board and performing due diligence and this news woman seems interested and informed and has been involved in this case for a few weeks. Though a few names are fudged at times and maybe the authenticity of some sources could be challenged.

But here are some highlights:

FBI requested gunshot residue test and that a rape kit be performed and local officials turned it down. (No explanation about when, how or how much FBI was involved, but they’ve been mentioned as holders of the phone as well)

Stephen and Buster knew each other and were involved in some team sport that dad Alex coached. Mom had nice things to say about Buster, but not about Paul.

Stephen Smith knew Mallory Beach and were friendly with with each other. There must have been about a four year age difference by my calculations.

Mother said that Stephen mentioned a secret relationship with a guy from a powerful local family, but it was not Buster.

Stephen’s father was involved in a court case and one of Paul’s uncles, Randy, was his lawyer. Randy was also at the scene of Stephen’s death at some point. This dad died, supposedly of a broken heart, a few months later after Stephen was found murdered.

Stephen was found in the road with knees bent like doing push-ups, he had defensive wounds on his knuckles. He was wearing a black T-shirt that had a blue chip of paint that could have come from a Toyota or an industrial tool.

The Murdaugh family was mentioned nine times in the notes of the initial Stephen Smith police examination.

Recently, ANOTHER 19 year old, a male, was found beaten to death on Paul Murdaugh’s college campus and the crime remains unsolved.

I’m starting to think maybe the reason Stephen was keeping secret about a relationship with someone from a powerful family was because it may not have been age appropriate. Young, poor teenage boy who grew up in a trailer and is openly gay draws the attention of closeted married wealthy powerful older man who can dazzle him with gifts and trips with the price being to keep silent about it. I’m starting to put focus on Paul’s two uncles, both from their TV show appearance could easily be light in the loafers. Randy’s obviously very involved with the family as Stephen’s dad lawyer .

My concern is that with Yankee journalists now descending upon the place, the locals will circle the wagons and stop talking. We need Harper Lee and Truman Capote down there.

Oh, and on the news show, like a poster up above, mentioned this all as a worthy sequel to Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil.

This is bizarre, not surprisingly Paul’s college, University of South Carolina, is listed as one of the top twenty party schools in the country. This law firm with offices in Columbia, S.C. advertises this on their website with the informational that they can get underaged drinking and DUI charges reduced or dismissed. Sleazy, sleazy lawyers there.

R435 and R436, are we sure that Randy was Stephen’s dad’s personal lawyer? In the segment, the guy says he was in a lawsuit that Randy was “involved in the case.” Could he have been involved on the opposite side of the case rather than as his personal lawyer?

Was Stephen's dad in his life? The pics with mom that I've seen feature no dad.

R441 During the news show one of the talking heads was alluding to Stephen maybe having conflict with his family and coming out or not being out, but the news host jumped in immediately to say that Stephen had come out quite young and his mother supported him from the start, but relations with the father were initially strained. But in the last few years the father had become completely accepting of his son.

[quote]i wonder what the housekeeper said to Paul before Timmy shoved her down the stairs.

I read that she had caught Paul going through Daddy's liquor.

Wow. So there is ANOTHER unsolved killing at Paul's university?

Paul may have been a serial killer.

[quote]Mother said that Stephen mentioned a secret relationship with a guy from a powerful local family, but it was not Buster.

So was it Paul? That actually makes more sense. I can see Paul being a self-hating closet case. And killing Stephen because he was afraid he was telling people.

I think TIMMY was the serial killer, R444. A way of deflecting guilt while allowing himself the power to do anything that occured to him.

Real Jekyll and Hyde shit.

R445 Paul would have been about 15 or 14 in 2015, I don’t think Stephen would be that interested in someone that young and if anything see that as fooling around more then “seeing” them. There was also talk of Stephen going on a sea fishing trip with someone later that month. That doesn’t sounds like something Paul would be doing with him, but someone older.

I wonder if it was Alex or one of his brothers Stephen was seeing.

The age difference is why he didn't reveal who it was.

Anyone else think that "Timmy" is an odd choice to name someone's evil alter ego?

It's such an innocuous name, especially in the diminutive.

I expect it was a South Park reference.

What if one of the Murdaugh men, grandfather Randolph or any of his sons Randy, Alex or John was molesting the boys? Introverted (possibly already gay) Buster just turns more inward, he’s practically a ghost in this story, and Paul turns aggressive and acts out more and more as he gets older in violent behavior, drinking and drugs as a means of coping with what happened? What if Stephen was part of this situation as well, knowing the secret, or being involved as an older teen with that person? Are sociopaths born or are they made, if made who or what was done to Paul to make him that way? I don’t want to become sympathetic to Paul, but what if there are dark doings and secrets that made him this way? Timmy may even be a dissociative personality he created to cope?

[quote]the obese pigmy

Oh, dear!

[quote] Still, you’d think he would’ve thrown it somewhere where it wouldn’t be recovered, just to confuse things

Like where? You know the phones have GPS, right?

[quote] There’s a lot to unpack here

*eyeroll*

[quote]Like where? You know the phones have GPS, right?

You don't get much of a signal when it's under 100 feet of water.

I can't believe the killer(s) didn't throw Maggie's phone off a bridge with all that water around there.

Alex was Stephen's coach. So he had access.

[quote] You don't get much of a signal when it's under 100 feet of water.

You’re right, but it’ll have pinged at that location until it was thrown in the water. Do you think SLED would track it to a body of water and then say, “Welp, don’t know where it is now. Course there’s this lake here, but it can’t be in there, can it?”

R453, if phones are turned off they do not ping the tower and are untraceable.

IIR, it's not that simple, r458. I think you actually have to remove the battery and/ or the SIM card to make the phone completely untraceable.

And a killer who was foolish enough to leave his bullet casings at the site of the killing is unlikely to be thinking in those terms.

Can't wait for the film Hush Hush Sweet Murdaughs

^Tony, I've been told by a cyber-expert friend, who works for Microsoft, that the only way to make a cell phone untraceable is to remove the battery from it. Otherwise, it can be traced and found.

The NSA has been able to trace phones in Iraq which were turned off but experts believe this was only possible because the phones had been infected with a Trojan by the NSA prior to being turned off. I could f course be wrong but The Washington Post is where my information comes from.

It was a black Suburban that was towed to the police from the lodge by the kinkily named S&S Super Lube.

It seems like a pretty slovenly hit-job, to have been so incredibly brutal. The multiple shots to the face of the mother indicates intense personal animus against someone in the family (and I'm guessing it wasn't Mrs. Murdaugh herself), not just a robbery gone wrong. The use of 2 different guns suggests to me that the mother emerged outside, from the house, after the son had gone out, likely with the shotgun, when she heard shots and went to investigate. But the son was killed with the shotgun, not a weapon you would take to use in an assassination type of killing. I bet the mother's phone was set for automatic flash, and so the killer(s) could tell that she was taking photographs of them when she pressed the shutter. Maybe she used the phone as a flashlight to light up the dark, or was using the flash on the phone for light. We don't know if the SIM card was in the phone when it was tracked down, only that the phone had been found, and pretty close to the house, near the road beside the property. The killer(s) may have know that the phone could be traced and therefore that thye had to ditch it fast. That it wasn't at least thrown into the water somewhere (and water is *everywhere* in that area, plus it had been a VERY rainy month previously) indicates that whoever carried the phone away wasn't all that smart about technology, to put it mildly.

[quote]We don't know if the SIM card was in the phone when it was tracked down

Yes, we do. The phone was located using "Find My iPhone" app. It wouldn't have worked without the SIM card.

So who's black Suburban was that? Was it the Murdaugh's? Did Paul drive it over to the kennels?

Former State Patrol officer who was on the scene of Stephen's death says it was NOT a hit and run. He said there was no evidence of a vehicle being involved.

Instead, he says, it looked like a murder. And that the scene had been staged. Someone placed Stephen's body in the road.

The father is now offering a $100,000 reward for info -- probably after it was pointed out to him that it was weird that the family hadn't already done that.

[quote] So who's black Suburban was that?

Oh, DEAR!

R444 I’m not saying the USC murder isn’t connected but I would caution that USC is an urban campus and Columbia, like many larger communities has been having a crime wave. So it could just be a coincidence. When I was there, things weren’t as bad as now but yet we had homeless people breaking in to sleep in the hallway.

That's how rich folks keep their money, r468.

Only a hundred grand?

Lots of cover ups! I would have fed the cell phone to the alligators.

Is Ryan Murphy already writing the script? If so, Sarah Paulson would have her choice of roles. I bet she goes for the potential serial killer son. You know Andrew Rannells will be shooting to play the 19 yo gay. Or maybe Darren Criss. If Jada or Viola don’t get to play the mother, expect protests.

Yeah, sounds like the father or an uncle were screwing the 19 yo kid. So many plot twists. That FBI profiler in the interview is awful, but Ashleigh found a great plastic surgeon.

Tasteful friends: Your chance to own your own hunting camp in world famous Islandton, South Carolina, 340 acres of wooded land and swamp

At 340-acres, it's not quite 20% of the Murdaugh's property, it comes with a bar, an open-sided equipment storage shed, and a very basic lodge "Perfect For A Family Getaway, And Ideal For A Group Of 10 As A Jointly-Owned Hunt Camp!" At 5x the size and assuming 5x the asking price of this one, the Murdaugh property would approach $9M in value. In any case, no an inconsequential piece of property in its current value.

The "improvements" are nothing noteworthy other than that they mean that electricity and septic and well water systems are evidently in place.

Actually it's a rather attractive property (less the improvements), though thoughts of copperheads and cottonmouths and coral snakes and rattlers and then the non-poisonous snakes, and the 'gators occupy my mind.

And the signage in photo 59 (of 69) in the listing at R474 may give some indication of the nature of the landscape.

^Try to imagine how many hours a week have to be devoted to cutting all that fucking grass; and at least 9 months of every year...$1.7 million is a hell of a lot of dough for one hideous trailer and the right to shoot 2 deer per annum, if you ask me.

^And YES, alleygaytors everywhere, I'm shuah.

Yes, but they high class gators.

The medical examiner an Erin Presnell said that it had to be a hit and run because Stephen was found in the road. Really. If she is asked any further questions she gets pissy.

R479 The former Highway Patrolman that led the original investigation has been casting doubts on the official story. I don't "know" him, but I have met him before and he impressed me as a dedicated straightforward type of guy. He is also a former Trooper of the year for his district and was considered one of their best collision reconstructionists.

[quote] “I’d been on the Highway Patrol at that time for 15 years and nothing about that case looked like a hit-and-run to me,” Proctor said. “There was just no evidence to support a hit-and-run.”

I wonder if it was Paul/Timmy who was hooking up with Stephen, the dead gay.

Whoever wanted the local gay journalist on the scene I think I found him! He is aptly named Mintzer and grew up in Charleston. He has gay face and the hugest fucking mouth, I’ve already decided Noah Galvin will play him in the movie. Maybe his nickname should be Trouty Mouth?

Anyways, he says Stephen’s boyfriend received threatening phone calls from the Cayman Islands AFTER he was killed. BOYFRIEND??? And that prior to his death Stephen became more secretive. I think despite the new “boyfriend” development he was seeing one of those wealthy bastard Murdaughs on the DL. The only association I have with the Caymans is Armie Hammer, is he involved somehow, did he do it? Did he eat Stephen’s face?

R482 Wow, great info. And yes, Adam is Team DL for sure. He's a far cry from Austin Grabish, though.

I can't believe Stephen had a boyfriend and we're just hearing about it now.

Who is armor hammer. What does that have to do with this tread?

Seems like some agenda post.

Let’s keep this one on topic.

R482 Armie Hammer is the only partial time resident of Cayman Islands that I know who could be making illicit phone calls to dead Stephen’s boyfriend, but if anyone can find any of the the Murdaughs tax sheltering their wealth in the Caymans I think we have a lead.

So was Pa Murdough in the Caymans visiting his money and making all these anonymous phone calls then?

Binge watching television has ruined me.

I know this is real life with real limitations, yet I'm impatient and want the full story right the hell now.

[quote]Stephen’s boyfriend received threatening phone calls from the Cayman Islands AFTER he was killed.

It would be pretty easy to tell if the Murdaughs were in the Cayman Islands.

[quote]Armie Hammer is the only partial time resident of Cayman Islands that I know who could be making illicit phone calls to dead Stephen’s boyfriend,

Because, of course, you know everyone in the Cayman Islands, and have eliminated all but Armie Hammer.

Buy a sense of humor and an understanding of sarcasm, R489. It will be money well spent.

I don't see anything about the Cayman Islands in that article.

It is interesting that a Green Jeep was following Stephen.

And that Randy Murdaugh got someone to call the police and say his stepson had killed Stephen.

Randy's stepson?

If only they'd both had a gun, this would never have oh wait.

Bless your heart, r489.

[quote]Stephen Smith’s mother and twin sister

At least mama still got one ginger cocksucker in the house.

The cops looked at Alex's digital files after the double murder.

I wonder if they found texts to Stephen, which is why they reopened this case.

Why was someone running Stephen after he was dead?

^^Huh?

[quote]Why was someone running Stephen after he was dead?

I think you meant to post that in the Tokyo Olympics thread.

"The only association I have with the Caymans is Armie Hammer, is he involved somehow, did he do it?"

R482, the Cayman Islands are mainly known for having the kind of banks that help rich people avoid inconvenient laws in their home country, starting with paying taxes and going on from there. The place has a dodgy reputation, to put it politely, and is probably a good place to find hit men, or the sort of fixers who can hush things up for you. Or maybe it's just a good place to make untraceable phone calls.

I meant ringing, not running.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R502 I was reading that as well. What I found interesting is from Donterrio Aiken that when he was on the high school football team Stephen was a trainer for the team. When asked about knowing any Murdaughs in school he said maybe a girl with that name. When asked about Paul he didn’t think so, but was actually Facebook friends with him. I wonder if he’s one of the guys in that hunting photo posted above?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

She looks great.

Donterrio Aiken is Buster’s FB friend, too.

R503 That was meant to be Buster, not Paul sorry!

Sylvia, don’t apologize for the Fail link. I’ve found that they get the best scoops and photos for US true crime. Maybe because their reporters don’t have to worry about stepping on local toes? I remember when we were all over the Rackover story; they had photos and interviews that no US media had. I always check them now.

Smith should've learned to half-smile with those gums.

So remind me, which of the older Murdaughs was the football coach?

It's pretty easy to get a Cayman Islands (or anyplace else SIM) card.

Paul & Buster's dad was the coach.

The photo of Stephen and his mother makes me cry. They look so happy and loving.

I hope there is justice for them soon.

Is there a timeline or Googles Slides?

I want to know more about the general availability of Cayman Islands Sim cards.

Is it just Cayman Islands Communications who are the mobile operator there? Does everyone have a CIM SIM?

It’s a CIS SIM.

That's a Russian SIM

It's SIM City!

I pronounce it "blue".

What the hell is this? Tickets are free, but it still seems strange. Thad looks cute and might be family.

^Frankly, ALL THREE of them look "that way" to me.

Not much new here, but someone asked if he was buried or cremated, at the end it’s said that he was buried in his scrubs as a new pair had just arrived.

[quote] Anyone else think that "Timmy" is an odd choice to name someone's evil alter ego?

I thought that too at first, but depending on the level of crazy we’re dealing with-and Paul sounds like someone who would’ve been locked up long ago if he didn’t come from money-there may not have been much in the way of a ‘choice’ in the matter. ‘Timmy’ may have come to Paul fully formed, and that was that.

[quote] The photo of Stephen and his mother makes me cry. They look so happy and loving.I hope there is justice for them soon.

Agreed. I can’t imagine what she’s going though. Imagine being contacted by the police years after your child’s murder, to find out they couldn’t care less about his death, rather they only care about the rich assholes who know SOMETHING about his murder.

I think “Timmy” is a reference to the “South Park” character. He’s disabled and special needs and can only say his own name (spastically).

[quote] Thad looks cute and might be family.

I hate to say it because he doesn't look good in the pic on the P&C website, but I am about 95% sure I've hooked up with him. But, when I did he looked more like this.

But, I can't be certain. It would've been when he was a student at UofSC. There are a lot of guys that have that same general look there and it was a one time thing. If it was him, he has a long cut cock that doesn't have much girth but a big ole mushroom head.

R524 isn’t sure of the face, but definitely can identify the cock in a police line up.

R525 I thought everyone knew we Southerners are sluts. Did Blanche not teach y'all anything?

R519. Will they be offering refreshments?

Case files and timeline from the FITS News.

R528 Wow, the family pulled an Emmett Till, they had the casket left open so they could see what they did to him.

A couple of intriguing tidbits.

July 14, 2015: SCHP: A man who describes himself as Stephen’s boyfriend (the family disputes this) was interviewed by Duncan and Rowell.

The man says that Stephen was “harassed in his town” and said people screwed with Stephen’s car battery.

He offers to give the officers his phone and take a lie detector test. “I’m telling you man to man I didn’t kill him.”

The man says that he’s done a lot of drugs and had brain injuries.

He said that Stephen was being harassed on the night of his death at Snider’s Crossroads on the way to Walterboro, South Carolina.

He said Stephen was harassed by “Rednecks in a big truck with big mud tires.”

July 17, 2015:

First Mention of the Murdaughs. 11:03 a.m. SCHP: Duncan travels to Hampton County and interviews a member of the Smith family at the DMV office (a substation for SCHP).

The family member says that Stephen was recently acting secretive and started coming home late.

Stephen’s relative didn’t believe the person who said they were dating Stephen and said the family was skeptical of him.

When asked if they’ve had been contacted by a lawyer, the family member tells police that Randy Murdaugh was the second person to call Stephen’s father after the coroner on the day of Stephen’s death. He said he would take Stephen’s case free of charge.

The family was skeptical of Randy Murdaugh’s offer and thought it was weird. Duncan does not include this in his casenotes.

Stephen’s relative tells him that she just officially left the house for the first time the day before and went to the store and a bunch of people kept coming up to her saying “Did you know the Murdaugh Boys are behind it, saying Buster Murdaugh the, one we went to school with did it, and some of his friends.”

Stephen’s family member didn’t seem to believe this at the time.

“I’m just sitting here like ‘why?’ It makes no sense,” she said. “He’s never said anything bad about Stephen. He’s never been around Stephen.”

When asked who told her that she said Stephen’s friend, another kid who she named, and “a couple other people.”

Rowell did not make a note of the Murdaugh tip in his written notes.

Shortly after 1 p.m. SCHP: Duncan calls Stephen Smith’s mother Sandy Smith.

Sandy says she’s skeptical of the man claiming to be Stephen’s boyfriend.

She tells police Stephen was going to school in Orangeburg and hung out at Bobcat Landing a lot recently.

She said Stephen had been recently cutting school, which was unusual for him.

Sandy says that Stephen was smart and a “study person” who was typically serious about school.

Sandy told Duncan that she heard rumors about the Murdaugh boys had something to do with Stephen’s death.

“The rumor that’s going around Hampton that everybody keeps coming up to me and saying it was Murdaugh boys,” she says.

Duncan responds “The Murdaugh boys?”

“Yes. Whoever they are,” she tells Duncan.

Duncan didn’t ask any follow-up questions and never mentioned this rumor in his notes.

Interesting…

Thanks for my new, weekend obsession, OP!

The family denied that the guy claiming to be the boyfriend of Stephen was real. “Boyfriend” was a self proclaimed druggie with brain damage.

Well, maybe he wasn't the sort of boyfriend you introduce to your family.

R532 I think we can ease up wondering about the Cayman Islands and instead let's talk about Randy's offer to take on Stephen's case pro bono.

R533 Maybe he was a FWB who thought he was more.

Randy Murdaugh is the second person to call the family after the coroner and offers to take the case free of charge. The family finds it weird. Like WTF is that??? What did he know already, after all granddaddy had made that statement of if there was a robbery call him and he would tell them what it was about.

Contrary to what I initially thought, Bobcat Landing isn’t a bar or club, but a public boat launch. Wanna bet it’s a big gay cruising spot at night time?

R537 It is, and not just at night.

Mandy Matney is the MVP.

A better podcast on the (OBVIOUSLY) inbred Murdaugh family.

It’s in the eyes. You can always tell when someone’s wife is also their sister/cousin/niece.

R539, does Mandy smell the freshly baked cookies in her home? Cause I sure do.

[quote]there may not have been much in the way of a ‘choice’ in the matter. ‘Timmy’ may have come to Paul fully formed, and that was that.

Oh, FFS.

[quote]but depending on the level of crazy we’re dealing with-

Indeed. Only I’m looking at you.

R54-, I’m not sure what you mean. Mandy Matney is the reporter for FITSNews who’s been providing some diligent reporting on this story.

We’re you referring to Maggie Murdaugh, who had the job of looking the other way?

I think it would be more exciting if they became FISTNews

A sizable number of DLers would tune in then!

R544 They could solve this AND uncover the identity of Chris Burrous' friend.

Yes!

They could do an exposee of Mr Fister!

Critical Kay, a true crime Youtuber and running a Facebook group on the murders, is saying an anonymous source of hers reported that Paul was on his knees and was first shot in the head and then repeatedly shot.

[quote]Paul was on his knees

Often

Was Stephen shot in the head?

Is it possible Paul killed Stephen but didn't reveal it to his brother until recently? Maybe Buster shot them for Pride.

^If that source is correct, then it's as others have speculated here: the kid caught the perp outside, or from inside the house they heard dogs howling and he went out to see what was up. He was "executed" out there, and Mother then went out to investigate, on hearing the shots. She was using her camera, for light or taking pix, and so they killed her too and took her phone, ditching it just down the road. The question remains, who did it? Was it just a botched robbery, or a killer going after the Dad and finding Jr. and Mom there instead, or what?

^It all must have happened too quickly and/or too violently for it to have occurred to Mother to call 911 before venturing outside to see what the ruckus was all about.

R549 Stephen was struck in the head with something causing a huge wound. There has been speculation that it was a baseball bat, but I think people should be thinking tire iron like what Ennius images for Jack Twist in Broke Back Mountain since that’s easily available in a roadside setting. I was thinking shooting someone in the face as revenge for that would seem fitting, and the perception is that killing Paul was done with much anger and aggression, continually firing into an obviously dead body.

[quote]Critical Kay

Who the fuck does a 3 HOUR youtube video?

That bitch needs an editor.

R553 Ennis, goddamn it. It's spelled Ennis.

The crime of passion element seems odd in regards to then taking out Maggie. Did the killer think Paul was alone?

Maybe Maggie was a target, too.

Hmm. Did the shooter waste all the bullets in one weapon on Paul, hence using another weapon for Maggie The Fur?

I think it's possible that Maggie was a target as well, even if the official speculative line is that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She may have been the enabler of Paul's affluenza his entire life and the killer(s) knew it and this was payback time for the both of them. But, I don't recall anything negative being said about her personally or her parenting skills.

The timing of the father's absence and then convenient appearance on the freshly committed crime scene does make one wonder, though. It could be just a very unfortunate coincidence. The father supposedly has been ruled out as a suspect, but who knows, with the police divulging so little. Seems they want to keep the perp(s) in the dark as to what they really know.

Was anything stolen from the house after the murders, or were the murders the sole reason for murderer(s) to be there?

This is what I'm leaning towards: Paul and Stephen were dating, but he didn't kill him. His brother found out they were fooling around and he didn't want a "gay" brother, so he and his friends murdered Stephen. He let it slip at some point while fighting with his brother, whom he felt was costing the family too much depleting his inheritance. But, Paul's alcohol problems, and alter ego, were the result of Stephen's death so Buster was the root cause of the boating accident, as well. The mother and son were at the hunting lodge alone because he wanted a private place to come out to her. Buster couldn't have her taking up for Paul anymore so he killed both of them because he had always been jealous of their close relationship. He and his father seem more alike, so I think they planned it together, because they felt killing Paul was the best way to protect the family.

[quote] “Mrs. Maggie don’t deserve this,” said Gabby Thomas, 62, whose hunting club is adjacent to the Murdaughs’ lodge. “She’d give you the shirt off her back, that one. Wonderful woman. Them others? I don’t know. But she sure spoiled Paul. I heard him talk back to her once so bad in the beauty parlor once that I made him apologize.”

Someone has started a third thread because they say this one is paywalled.

Is it just me, or has thread 3 disappeared?

Didn’t know a Part III was made.

Yes there is/was a part 3.

I wonder where it went.

It was deleted. Why, you ask?

Because this one was paywalled so the cheapos thought it was a better idea to create a new thread (which I’ll never understand). It was nuked.

Dammit. Here's the girlfriend's deposition again then.

And here's Stephen's case files.

Anyone who complains of “paywalling” I just assume is poor.

This thread seems to have slowed way down. If it gets close to 600 posts, I will start another thread.

You’re a nice man.

The link to the new thread isn't loading.

Uh oh. Seems like another thing the father has his hands in! He’s gotten to Muriel!

I blame Uncle Randy.

R574

So do we have any updates?

Paul would have been 13 or 14 when Stephen was murdered. I don't believe for a minute that Stephen would have been stupid enough to start a relationship with a child.

[quote]Paul would have been 13 or 14 when Stephen was murdered.

Unless I'm missing something... Stephen Smith was 19 at the time of his death in July 2015 (and would be 25 today). Paul Murdaugh died at 22, so [bold]6 years ago Paul would have been 16 (not 13 or 14.)[/bold] Their age difference was 3 years not 5 or 6.

R578 And Buster is the same age as Stephen, let's not forget him.

Someone tried to make a 3rd thread, but it mysteriously vanished. You don't even get a "thread closed" notice.

Nothing mysterious about it.

See r566.

Is 566 Muriel.

It sounds like her friendly style of writing.

Any update?

If we had updates, we would post them.

This thread has been suspiciously quiet. Did Buster have it paywalled?

I think so, plus the confusion that the deletion of the non paywalled thread cause has blown this topic sky high.

Is there an active Part Three?

No, R587.

It was deleted as per a comment up thread.

Finally, some news! But not directly about the murders.

"Two attorneys representing a survivor of the 2019 Beaufort County, South Carolina boat crash that killed 19-year-old Mallory Beach filed court documents Wednesday alleging that law enforcement officers conspired to shift the focus of the investigation away from Paul Murdaugh prior to him being ultimately charged with three felonies in connection with the crash. The petition was filed on behalf of Connor Cook, who broke his jaw when Murdaugh allegedly crashed a 17-foot center console fishing boat owned by his father, R. Alexander “Alex” Murdaugh, into a piling near the Archer’s Creek bridge in the early morning hours of February 24, 2019.

Cook filed the bombshell petition on July 7. The shocking court documents were filed just four weeks after Paul Murdaugh, 22, was found murdered with his mother Maggie Murdaugh, 52, on their hunting property in Colleton County, South Carolina. An investigation into their deaths is being conducted by the S.C. State Law Enforcement Division (SLED). The petition and accompanying documents are explosive — alleging that officers from the S.C. Department of Natural Resources (SCDNR) and the Beaufort County Sheriff’s Office possibly conspired to essentially frame Connor Cook as the driver of the boat."

According to recordings from the scene played during deposition, Mallory Beach’s boyfriend Anthony Cook — Connor’s cousin — sensed the Murdaugh family influence would play a role in the investigation.

“That motherf*cker needs to rot in f*cking prison,” he yelled about Paul Murdaugh at the scene of the crash, according to recordings. “He ain’t going to get in no f*cking trouble…..My f*cking girlfriend is gone.”

In the explosive depositions, attorneys’ questions suggest that several pieces of evidence appear to be missing, including:

Paul’s phone, which was picked up by another officer on scene, according to audio.

Paul’s pants, which attorneys assumed contained his wallet with the fake ID he allegedly used earlier that day.

DNA swabs from the boat and photographs of DNA processing (which could prove where Connor was positioned in the boat at the time of the crash).

An audio recording of Anthony Cook telling Michael Brock that Paul Murdaugh killed his girlfriend.

Let me know if I should continue to post excerpts.

Absolutely, yes. We’ll need another thread.

I can see the old Thread Three again. I thought it had been disappeared. Does this work for anyone else?

Yes, R593, the new old new version of Part Trois is working for me.

Yes, please keep posting excerpt. This is so intriguing.

Are we going to finish off the old part three? This thread is almost done. Or are we going to start part five of this saga and just let the old part three die?

I have moved over to the newly rediscovered old Pt 3.

Can we go to a part 5 for the sake of decency? The Swiss would.

[quote] Part Trois is working for me.

Oooooh, you fancy!

Trois!

How bizarre that part trois is back up.

Well done Sylvia with the updates.

Closing this one with last comment.