Because we've endlessly rehashed every other topic.
Theatre Gossip #408: Changing the Subject to Irra Petina Edition
by Anonymous | reply 601 | December 26, 2020 6:11 PM |
If Mrs Doubtfire comes back they’ll probably have to recast the kids who have probably outgrown their roles and that’s very sad for them.
by Anonymous | reply 2 | December 16, 2020 7:02 PM |
Thanks for starting a new thread, OP... although you've virtually guaranteed that this one will not fill up as quickly as last time.
by Anonymous | reply 3 | December 16, 2020 7:05 PM |
Rob McClure is very talented. But I sincerely doubt MRS D will be back.
There was a lot of doubt (!) about the project after the crash-and-burn of TOOTSIE, long before CV-19.
by Anonymous | reply 4 | December 16, 2020 7:08 PM |
Wow, OP, this is not necessarily what I would have chosen as a thread starter, but I feel like you're a man after my own heart!
by Anonymous | reply 5 | December 16, 2020 7:23 PM |
[quote]If Mrs Doubtfire comes back they’ll probably have to recast the kids who have probably outgrown their roles and that’s very sad for them.
Not as sad as having to perform in that show.
by Anonymous | reply 7 | December 16, 2020 7:59 PM |
Incidentally, what movie musicals differ greatly from their original stage counterparts? I don't mean cutting a song/scene or two but a complete overhaul. I can only think of ON THE TOWN and CABARET.
by Anonymous | reply 8 | December 16, 2020 8:32 PM |
I think PAINT YOUR WAGON is radically different as a movie than as a stage show (but I'm not that fond of either, so I'm not 100% on that). They kept some but not all of the score, but I believe the characters and plot have been changed.
by Anonymous | reply 9 | December 16, 2020 8:34 PM |
What a stupid name Irra is.
by Anonymous | reply 10 | December 16, 2020 8:44 PM |
I'm not familiar with Irma La Douce, but didn't the movie get rid of the songs entirely and just used the music as underscoring?
by Anonymous | reply 11 | December 16, 2020 8:44 PM |
[quote]Incidentally, what movie musicals differ greatly from their original stage counterparts? I don't mean cutting a song/scene or two but a complete overhaul. I can only think of ON THE TOWN and CABARET.
I'm not sure if these are considered complete overhauls, but they are changes affecting the show:
Little Shop of Horrors changed the ending, and thereby the meaning of the entire show.
Hair, the Movie gave structure to the show making it far better than its stage version.
Evita the Movie softened some of the anger inherent in the stage version.
by Anonymous | reply 12 | December 16, 2020 8:46 PM |
[quote]I'm not familiar with Irma La Douce, but didn't the movie get rid of the songs entirely and just used the music as underscoring?
Yes, also FANNY. And there were a number of early movie musicals that idiotically cut almost the entire scores of those shows, sometimes leaving only one or two big hits from the original and adding songs written by others.
by Anonymous | reply 14 | December 16, 2020 8:51 PM |
4 gutsy Broadway wags predict the invisible Tony Awards:
by Anonymous | reply 15 | December 16, 2020 8:55 PM |
If you want to see a good backstage look at how stupid, small minded, and unnecessary "Broadway wags" and critics are, watch the documentary "Show Business" from 2004. It's a look at that season, and there are regular roundtables of "wags." They are truly shallow and jaw dropping dumb. I'm actually very glad most have lost their jobs. They were unnecessary at every level.
by Anonymous | reply 16 | December 16, 2020 8:58 PM |
R16, isn't that the docu in which a certain "wag," who shall remain nameless, predicts that AVENUE Q will be a huge failure on Broadway, asking rhetorically, "Who's the audience for a show like that?"
'nuff said :-)
by Anonymous | reply 17 | December 16, 2020 9:04 PM |
[quote]Evita the Movie softened some of the anger inherent in the stage version.
The funny thing about that is that the filmmakers did that to appease the Peronist president at the time so they could get permission to film on the Casa Rosada. However, in retaliation to Madonna's casting, the Argentineans had made their own film about her simply titled EVA PERON: THE TRUE STORY, which was released around the same time. Eva's portrayal in that is very similar to LuPone's in that she is abrasive, crass, and foul-mouthed and is shown to have slept her way to power. She also advocates censorship and the imprisonment and torture of dissenters.
So, while the Argentineans hated the musical EVITA, their portrayal of her was much worse by comparison than the Hollywood film.
by Anonymous | reply 18 | December 16, 2020 9:11 PM |
R18, I didn't know most of that story, and it's really interesting. Thanks so much for posting.
by Anonymous | reply 19 | December 16, 2020 9:15 PM |
[quote]Annie.
You lied. That's not Annie. This is Annie.
(And Andrea McArdle is still a shitty actor).
by Anonymous | reply 20 | December 16, 2020 9:23 PM |
I couldn't bear to watch and listen to the "wags" in that video but can anyone who did, please tell me if they think my boyfriend Aaron Tveit will win an uncontested Tony ?
by Anonymous | reply 21 | December 16, 2020 9:27 PM |
If we left everything up to those wags, we wouldn’t even have [italic]Oklahoma![/italic]
by Anonymous | reply 23 | December 16, 2020 9:43 PM |
My Sister Eileen has the same source material as Wonderful Town (and thus tells the same story) but it's no way based on Wonderful Town. I don't really understand how the rights could be given simultaneously to two different entities, but there you have it.
MGM's Babes in Arms would be a perfect early example of Hollywood buying up the rights to a hit Broadway musical and then throwing out most of the brilliant score (by Rodgers & Hart, no less). I think this was why Richard Rodgers did not sell the rights to Oklahoma, Carousel, The King and I, South Pacific and The Sound of Music to MGM.
by Anonymous | reply 24 | December 16, 2020 9:55 PM |
The difference with Fanny is that Harold Rome was consulted, and almost the entire stage score of songs was used as underscoring, and in ways that really highlighted the music and the drama. ("To My Wife" was actually filmed, with Chevalier singing at a party for Fanny, but they decided to stick with no music
by Anonymous | reply 25 | December 16, 2020 10:31 PM |
"Anything Goes" lost most of its songs, too. Merman sang a line or two from the title song over the titles, then a weird "I Get a Kick Out of You," and "You're the Top" with Bing Crosby. Crosby also sang "There'll Always Be a Lady Fair." Everything else was new and not by Porter.
by Anonymous | reply 26 | December 16, 2020 10:35 PM |
[quote]ink PAINT YOUR WAGON is radically different as a movie than as a stage show
The movie keeps Ben Rumson as the lead, but elevates Mormon second lead Elizabeth to leading lady while cutting Rumson's daughter Jennifer. The fact of Ben buying, and then marrying, Elizabeth from her Mormon husband was a subplot in the play, but it's the whole plot in the movie.
by Anonymous | reply 27 | December 16, 2020 10:38 PM |
R21, here are the current Tony predictions from Goldderby's experts in list form:
by Anonymous | reply 28 | December 16, 2020 11:29 PM |
Do they predict when they'll actually hold the awards?
by Anonymous | reply 29 | December 16, 2020 11:34 PM |
Irma La Dude
Time to update this play for a trans person.
by Anonymous | reply 30 | December 17, 2020 1:29 AM |
Irra -The Queen of Floperetta!
by Anonymous | reply 31 | December 17, 2020 1:57 AM |
Just a heads up...one of Dick Cavett's guests tomorrow evening is Kathryn Kuhlman.
by Anonymous | reply 32 | December 17, 2020 2:03 AM |
I BELIEVE in MIRacles!
by Anonymous | reply 33 | December 17, 2020 2:05 AM |
George Abbott, Lillian Gish, Constance Towers, and our Irra.
"Anya" (1965)
by Anonymous | reply 34 | December 17, 2020 2:05 AM |
And just who ate her buttock? is that why she was such a half assed performer?
by Anonymous | reply 36 | December 17, 2020 2:34 AM |
R8
The Gay Divorse Anything Goes The Boys from Syracuse The Band Wagon The Merry Widow
by Anonymous | reply 37 | December 17, 2020 3:02 AM |
R24, in their heyday, the large movie studios had a significant revenue stream from publishing music. That's the major reason that musicals from Broadway lost everything but the very most famous songs and the film scores were then filled out with new music.
The studios published that new music. Therefore, the studios collected the royalties on any subsequent sales of that new music. Since the studios were paying to produce the films and promote the films, they wanted to keep as much of the income generated from the project as possible. From the studio boss's perspective, it makes no sense to make that huge investment in a property and then have Cole Porter or Leonard Bernstein be the guy who made the money.
As most people across the country never get to Broadway, the studios only needed the famous hit show's title and a few of the most famous songs from it. The other unknown songs would make them no money, so why bother? Use songs that will pay the producer.
by Anonymous | reply 38 | December 17, 2020 5:00 AM |
[quote]Little Shop of Horrors changed the ending, and thereby the meaning of the entire show.
how so? by making it a happy ending?
by Anonymous | reply 39 | December 17, 2020 5:15 AM |
But what of the Skinner poontang?
by Anonymous | reply 40 | December 17, 2020 6:59 AM |
R39 pretty much. At the end of the movie Audrey and Seymour are not eaten by the plant.
by Anonymous | reply 41 | December 17, 2020 9:52 AM |
The alternate electors are gonna give it to Isaac Powell
by Anonymous | reply 42 | December 17, 2020 10:58 AM |
R12, R41 and others: Apparently they shot both, and recent home releases have the original, which is now called the Alternate Since it’s not what they originally released
by Anonymous | reply 43 | December 17, 2020 12:09 PM |
[quote]pretty much. At the end of the movie Audrey and Seymour are not eaten by the plant.
The happy ending that was released in theaters does end with a sinister touch. After Seymour and Audrey go off happily to live in their dream home, little versions of Audrey 2 are seen sprouting by their white picket fence.
by Anonymous | reply 44 | December 17, 2020 12:38 PM |
On stage, Little Shop is a brilliant, funny morality play that directly addresses its audience in the finale to give its dark warning about feeding the plants of ambition and greed.
On screen, it’s just a monster movie, especially with the extremely cliche “the monster still lives” ending.
by Anonymous | reply 45 | December 17, 2020 12:52 PM |
To me, the most interesting change from stage to film is the flipping of “Cool” and “Krupke” in WSS.
It makes so much sense the way the film does it, that people are surprised and sometimes off put by seeing “Cool” before the rumble and “Krupke” after two main characters bleed to death on stage.
by Anonymous | reply 46 | December 17, 2020 12:56 PM |
R45 is correct. Wonderfully ironic, but correct. The "new" ending for the film was decreed necessary to make sure the film was a hit at the box office. That's why the film's producers spent a fortune to go back into production to create it.
Weaken their film artistically to strengthen it at the box office. In the end, ambition and greed still won the day.
by Anonymous | reply 47 | December 17, 2020 12:57 PM |
The new ending of Little Shop is stupid. At the beginning, you have the girls singing, “You better tell your mama something’s gonna get her, everybody beware.” It’s foreshadowing what’s to come. If Audrey and Seymour don’t get eaten, what’s the point of that song?
by Anonymous | reply 48 | December 17, 2020 1:06 PM |
[quote] To me, the most interesting change from stage to film is the flipping of “Cool” and “Krupke” in WSS. It makes so much sense the way the film does it, that people are surprised and sometimes off put by seeing “Cool” before the rumble and “Krupke” after two main characters bleed to death on stage.
The other song placement change was to move "I Feel Pretty" from after the deaths to much earlier in the film. Robert Wise felt there shouldn't be any light numbers after the rumble, and I think it was the right choice, especially for a movie, in which ill-placed songs can be jarring in a way they wouldn't be onstage.
by Anonymous | reply 49 | December 17, 2020 1:08 PM |
Your mama didn't get eaten, did she?
So what's the point of the song in either version?
by Anonymous | reply 50 | December 17, 2020 1:08 PM |
She probably does get eaten in the stage version. It’s implied that the plant takes over the world and eats everyone.
by Anonymous | reply 51 | December 17, 2020 1:10 PM |
Not theater, but the great literary scholar changed the ending of her film," The Scarlet Letter." When questioned she is said to have responded to the criticism by claiming that no one had read the book anyway, so changing the ending would make no difference.
by Anonymous | reply 52 | December 17, 2020 1:15 PM |
^^ That poster misspells my name! ^^
by Anonymous | reply 54 | December 17, 2020 1:32 PM |
Fun fact: In the original Little Shop of Horrors, at the end of the show, plastic vines were lowered over the audience to scare the hell out of them.
by Anonymous | reply 55 | December 17, 2020 1:35 PM |
I saw the original LITTLE SHOP. We sat on the front row, and, at the end, the vines *came* for us. My pregnant friend was genuinely terrified.
by Anonymous | reply 56 | December 17, 2020 1:39 PM |
Yes, that trick with the vines looked great from the small balcony at the Orpheum.
by Anonymous | reply 57 | December 17, 2020 1:45 PM |
But the BIGGEST change in the film of West Side Story was including the Shark boys in the number America. It cinched Oscars for Rita Moreno and especially George Chakiris (who doesn't do much more in the film)
It's really inconceivable that geniuses Robbins, Bernstein, Laurents and Sondheim didn't originally think of that.
by Anonymous | reply 59 | December 17, 2020 1:48 PM |
Maybe they wanted a number just for the women, other than the sappy " I Feel Pretty."
by Anonymous | reply 60 | December 17, 2020 1:51 PM |
I imagine that's true, r60, something about divvying up the numbers more evenly for the dancers, but I'm always disappointed when I see the show onstage. There's a sexual energy that's missing without the men.
by Anonymous | reply 61 | December 17, 2020 2:00 PM |
Never understood, though, why the Shark women are all pro-USA and all the men, anti.
by Anonymous | reply 62 | December 17, 2020 2:09 PM |
R 59, I believe America was originally conceived for the men and women to sing, but Robbins made it an all female number.
by Anonymous | reply 63 | December 17, 2020 2:12 PM |
The Shark men essentially feel emasculated in America as opposed to their homeland. The women all see America as a land of opportunity.
by Anonymous | reply 64 | December 17, 2020 2:16 PM |
W: “Free to be anything you choose”
M: “Free to wait tables and shine shoes”
by Anonymous | reply 65 | December 17, 2020 2:23 PM |
Yes, I know what they say—but why divided by gender? I always thought there'd be people on opposite sides but didn't understand why it would be male vs female
by Anonymous | reply 66 | December 17, 2020 2:35 PM |
Because the women’s lives are better here. They taste independence. America is a promotion for women
“I’m an American girl now. I don’t wait!”
For the men, it’s a demotion. They may have been hot shit in their small towns in PR, but now they are serving class nobodies (who still try to boss around their women, but the women aren’t taking it anymore)
by Anonymous | reply 67 | December 17, 2020 2:43 PM |
r53 = puta sucia
by Anonymous | reply 68 | December 17, 2020 2:47 PM |
r62, you're being pedantic.
There is so much more sexual heat in the dance if the women are challenging the men and vice versa. And we've already seen a challenge dance with mixed couples in The Dance at the Gym.
by Anonymous | reply 69 | December 17, 2020 2:47 PM |
R67, thanks. R69, not so much.
by Anonymous | reply 70 | December 17, 2020 2:53 PM |
Bombshell the Musical Live Concert
From the tv show SMASH all the songs written for the Marilyn Monroe musical on the show.
by Anonymous | reply 71 | December 17, 2020 2:54 PM |
Once saw Emily Skinner do a Sunday afternoon concert in P'town. She was a ragged wreck. She could barely keep her eyes open. She had apparently been partying all night until a few hours before the concert.
by Anonymous | reply 72 | December 17, 2020 3:20 PM |
Wasn’t the ending of LSOH changed because test audiences disapproved of its original nihilistic conclusion? The first DVD printing is also quite rare because it was quickly withdrawn from sale after David Geffen threw a hissy fit as it included the black and white footage of the original and unreleased ending.
The Frank Oz commentary on the DVD is pretty great - I think it’s the only film I’ve watched in its entirety with the director’s commentary. He drew attention to the fact that they couldn’t get one of the actresses for Crystal, Ronette, or Chiffon back for the reshoots, so you only see the faces of two of them as the camera pans down, where you then see a third pair of ankles walk by to suggest all three were present.
by Anonymous | reply 73 | December 17, 2020 4:22 PM |
[quote]On stage, Little Shop is a brilliant, funny morality play that directly addresses its audience in the finale to give its dark warning about feeding the plants of ambition and greed. On screen, it’s just a monster movie, especially with the extremely cliche “the monster still lives” ending.
Let's not be ridiculous, The overall meaning and theme of the show is still there in the movie, even if Audrey is not killed by the plant, and even with "Don't Feed the Plants" cut. I've always thought the original ending of the show and the movie was TOO dark, because Audrey is a complete innocent, and the audience really hates seeing her die, since they have come to love her so much. Also, the original ending of the movie was WAY too dark, with those huge plants destroying the city, like something out of WAR OF THE WORLDS.
[quote]The new ending of Little Shop is stupid. At the beginning, you have the girls singing, “You better tell your mama something’s gonna get her, everybody beware.” It’s foreshadowing what’s to come. If Audrey and Seymour don’t get eaten, what’s the point of that song?
Oh, for heaven's sake. Lots of people are eaten by the plant during the course of the movie. We don't specifically have to see Audrey and/or Seymour die to justify one line of the lyrics, and that line doesn't specifically refer to the deaths of those two characters.
[quote]To me, the most interesting change from stage to film is the flipping of “Cool” and “Krupke” in WSS. It makes so much sense the way the film does it, that people are surprised and sometimes off put by seeing “Cool” before the rumble and “Krupke” after two main characters bleed to death on stage.
I agree, but that nasty bitch Arthur Laurents insisted until his death -- and probably afterwards! -- that the original placement was superior. Because changing the placement for the movie was someone else's idea, so he could never accept the change, no matter how much sense it made.
[quote]The other song placement change was to move "I Feel Pretty" from after the deaths to much earlier in the film. Robert Wise felt there shouldn't be any light numbers after the rumble, and I think it was the right choice, especially for a movie, in which ill-placed songs can be jarring in a way they wouldn't be onstage.
Exactly. The placement of the intermission right after the rumble, with "I Feel Pretty" as the opening of Act II, makes that placement work (sort of), but it wouldn't have worked in the movie.
[quote]Yes, I know what they say—but why divided by gender? I always thought there'd be people on opposite sides but didn't understand why it would be male vs female
Realistically, of course, you're right, but I'm sure the number was conceived that way to make a clearer distinction between the two opposing camps, and to allow for the sort of "challenge dance" approach.
by Anonymous | reply 74 | December 17, 2020 4:38 PM |
you are the definitive insufferable word on every topic, aren't you, r74?
by Anonymous | reply 75 | December 17, 2020 4:41 PM |
But Audrey is not a complete innocent. She is one kinky bitch - there’s a clear S&M dynamic to her relationship with Orin. It’s not always equal, and it might even not always be consensual, but the black eye? The arm in the cast? It’s ambiguous, for sure, but she’s not simply an innocent defenceless victim.
She also tells Seymour that she wants to be fed to the plant. It’s granting consent, submitting to the ultimate act of sexual sublimation.
Every day a little death, indeed.
by Anonymous | reply 76 | December 17, 2020 4:56 PM |
R75 -- not definitive, just my opinions. Why do you have such a problem with me expressing my opinions? I think that makes YOU insufferable.
by Anonymous | reply 77 | December 17, 2020 5:01 PM |
This is a theatre gossip thread on the Datalounge.
We are ALL insufferable.
by Anonymous | reply 78 | December 17, 2020 5:04 PM |
Sorry r77 it's the listing and quoting of everyone's comments and making your pronouncements on each one
by Anonymous | reply 79 | December 17, 2020 5:38 PM |
Looks like it's time for a Barbara Nichols time-out...
by Anonymous | reply 80 | December 17, 2020 5:39 PM |
[quote]It's the listing and quoting of everyone's comments and making your pronouncements on each one
Yes, R79. I know you hate that -- for some reason -- but of course I'm going to continue doing so, regardless. I think I should be free to make comments whenever I feel it necessary, whether to agree or disagree with others, and I find it more efficient to quote and comment on several posts in one response, rather than to make multiple, individual posts in response. Sorry if that doesn't make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Question: When you come across one of my posts in which I do this, why don't you just skip it without writing a bitchy comment and insulting me? Has it not occurred to you that this is an option? Really, you might consider it as an energy saving measure, and also so that you're not perceived as trying to intimidate me and discourage discussion.
by Anonymous | reply 81 | December 17, 2020 5:54 PM |
As someone who just had two comments quoted by the individual in question, I’m on his side. I like seeing whom you’re responding to, r81.
You don’t like it, for whatever reason, skip past. School marms aren’t necessary on DL.
by Anonymous | reply 82 | December 17, 2020 6:24 PM |
Thanks, R82. The troll in question obviously has, ummm, issues....
by Anonymous | reply 83 | December 17, 2020 6:34 PM |
I don't care about R74's format of choice, but his officiousness is always off-putting. The format just makes it clear without a doubt that we are once again dealing with the same pontificating author.
But don't feel pressure to be congenial if you can't or don't want to be.
by Anonymous | reply 84 | December 17, 2020 6:46 PM |
Sorry if you don't like my tone, R84. But how odd that you of all people would criticize me for not being "congenial."
P.S. Another point I wanted to make about the ending of LITTLE SHOP is that I imagine the filmmakers didn't think the direct-address-to-the-audience song "Don't Feed the Plants" would work in a movie, so they had to come up with some other ending. Their original idea was to have Audrey (and Seymour, I think?) die as in the show, and then have the plants grow to massive size and begin destroying the world. But it was felt that this ending was TOO dark, so they came up with the alternate ending, which I think works just fine. And as for the "monster still lives" ending being "cliche," I would say that, among other things, LITTLE SHOP is a sort of a genre spoof musical, so having that cliche as the ending is perfectly fine and appropriate.
by Anonymous | reply 85 | December 17, 2020 6:58 PM |
Anything that encourages intelligent discussion is welcome here as far as I'm concerned.
I hate when posters chastise another poster with "Google it! If asking a question encourages an exchange of ideas, I'm all for it.
by Anonymous | reply 86 | December 17, 2020 7:02 PM |
[quote]Just a heads up...one of Dick Cavett's guests tomorrow evening is Kathryn Kuhlman.
Was she ever in "Follies?"
by Anonymous | reply 87 | December 17, 2020 7:20 PM |
I want to be in a throuple with R53 and R54.
by Anonymous | reply 88 | December 17, 2020 7:22 PM |
'quote]But the BIGGEST change in the film of West Side Story was including the Shark boys in the number America. It cinched Oscars for Rita Moreno and especially George Chakiris (who doesn't do much more in the film) It's really inconceivable that geniuses Robbins, Bernstein, Laurents and Sondheim didn't originally think of that.
Groups licensing the rights to produce "West Side Story" are expressly enjoined from adding the Shark men to the number, a provision that I suspect is often ignored by schools and community theater groups that want the number to look the way it does in the movie.
by Anonymous | reply 89 | December 17, 2020 7:24 PM |
And the screen version of Rent aged the characters by 20 yrs.
by Anonymous | reply 90 | December 17, 2020 7:41 PM |
In some book (maybe the Zadan Sondheim book?) I remember an interview with Laurents where he discussed the placement of Cool and Krupke in the stage version vs. the movie, and he said that in the stage version he was following the example of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. I'll leave it to any Shakespearean scholars here to decide if that's the case.
by Anonymous | reply 91 | December 17, 2020 7:48 PM |
Part 1 of the original ending for the Little Shop movie. If you watch it to the end, Part 2 should follow directly.
by Anonymous | reply 92 | December 17, 2020 8:06 PM |
[quote] Groups licensing the rights to produce "West Side Story" are expressly enjoined from adding the Shark men to the number, a provision that I suspect is often ignored by schools and community theater groups that want the number to look the way it does in the movie.
As you are probably aware, the Broadway revival of "West Side Story" that opened in February 2020 (and was, of course, shut down on March 12, 2020) features both the male and female Sharks in "America."
by Anonymous | reply 93 | December 17, 2020 8:08 PM |
[quote]Groups licensing the rights to produce "West Side Story" are expressly enjoined from adding the Shark men to the number, a provision that I suspect is often ignored by schools and community theater groups that want the number to look the way it does in the movie.
One big logistical problem with adding the men to stage productions of the show is that the key of "America" is too low for male singers. This wasn't a problem in the movie because George Chakiris and the other men obviously did the pre-recording with microphones right in front of their faces, but you can't have men singing that low on stage and expect them to project, even with heavy stage amplification.
[quote]In some book (maybe the Zadan Sondheim book?) I remember an interview with Laurents where he discussed the placement of Cool and Krupke in the stage version vs. the movie, and he said that in the stage version he was following the example of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. I'll leave it to any Shakespearean scholars here to decide if that's the case.
Yeah, yeah, I've read those comments from Laurents. He was talking about how Shakespeare sometimes used comic relief after very heavy dramatic scenes, even murder scenes, in R&J and other plays. I think WEST SIDE STORY is a completely different situation, not to mention a totally different style, but leave it to Laurents to make a pretentious justification like that.
Anyway, when Laurents directed that horrendous Broadway revisal of WSS in 2009, he made a decision even worse than keeping "Krupke" in its original slot after the murders. He also decided to remove all humor from the number (even though he had previouslyl attempted to justify humor at that point) because he had since decided that the song should NOT be funny, because the Jets are "killers." No, you fool -- the whole point of the show you yourself wrote is that these kids are NOT inherently killers, that they behave the way they do because of horrendous societal and economic circumstances.
by Anonymous | reply 94 | December 17, 2020 8:15 PM |
Will that incredibly polarizing (and expensive) revival of WSS re-open, do we think?
I know people who actually adored it, despite all the negative word-of-mouth.
by Anonymous | reply 95 | December 17, 2020 8:17 PM |
What do people think of PAJAMA GAME? I've never seen a stage production.
I just saw the movie w/Doris Day and John Raitt. While it's nice to see a movie that preserved the story and most of the score (and much of the Bway cast, apparently)... I was underwhelmed. Doris and Raitt don't have a lot of chemistry. Raitt is conventionally attractive but weirdly sexless and dull. It all seems a little frantic, with no real emotional payoff.
Of course, I may just dislike the show. (I love DAMN YANKEES, by comparison.)
by Anonymous | reply 96 | December 17, 2020 8:22 PM |
I love Pajama Game, but the movie is more of an embalming than a retelling of that story
by Anonymous | reply 97 | December 17, 2020 8:24 PM |
Thanks r92.
I didn't find that ending particularly dark, just appropriate to the material.
The original off-broadway version was the best thing I saw when I lived in NYC in the 80s.
by Anonymous | reply 98 | December 17, 2020 8:29 PM |
I was also confused why so many of the employees at a midwestern pajama factory (Iowa?) tawked "Noo Yawk." It was more GUYS AND DOLLS than Iowa should sound.
I did enjoy Doris' soft-butch look, at least.
by Anonymous | reply 99 | December 17, 2020 8:29 PM |
That's one hard soft-butch.
by Anonymous | reply 100 | December 17, 2020 8:30 PM |
God, could that original ending of LSOH be any fucking longer? I like the idea behind it, but I got bored midway through. I think if they would have cut it in half, it would have played better and they could have kept it. But I understand the reasoning for changing it.
I also wonder if they'd kept it would Ellen Greene have had a stronger possibility for a Best Actress nomination. 1986 was a dire year for lead females. They had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for five nominees, and even the winner was weak. I would have nominated Ellen over Jane Fonda, Sigourney, Sissy and especially Marlee Matlin. Of those five, I think only Kathleen Turner deserved the nomination.
by Anonymous | reply 101 | December 17, 2020 8:41 PM |
Colored lights--the TV commercial.
The story of a roller rink... they call home!
by Anonymous | reply 102 | December 17, 2020 8:49 PM |
I'm an old-fashioned Broadway traditionalist but I LOVED von Hove's WSS (and I've never been a fan of his work). But then, I'd always found WSS never came up to the production I had in my head of the show.
The von Hove production really does take a knife to the show, so much is rethought, but if you can go into it with an open mind, (and I'm not sure I did) you'll find it the most emotionally affecting production of the show you've ever seen, I think. The rare production where you believe those boys are gang members and could kill each other. And yet also the rare production where you believe Tony and Maria fall in love at first sight. Tears were streaming down my face at the end, a first time for me with WSS.
I really hope it returns after Covid. I'd certainly see it again.
by Anonymous | reply 103 | December 17, 2020 9:06 PM |
[quote]I love Pajama Game, but the movie is more of an embalming than a retelling of that story
I disagree, I think that movie is fun and has lots of spirit. DAMN YANKEES was the movie they botched, which is strange, because it's the same creative team as PJ GAME.
[quote]Will that incredibly polarizing (and expensive) revival of WSS re-open, do we think? I know people who actually adored it, despite all the negative word-of-mouth.
I don't mean this to sound condescending, but I think anyone who "adored" that ridiculous production either never saw WEST SIDE STORY before or really does not understand or love the show as originally conceived.
by Anonymous | reply 104 | December 17, 2020 9:07 PM |
I’m bored with traditional productions. If they can’t write new musicals, at least show us them in a different light.
by Anonymous | reply 105 | December 17, 2020 9:14 PM |
Agree with R105, but a first-class revival of a classic musical is also a treat. For example, the recent Lincoln Center revivals of The King and I and My Fair Lady, as well as the Bette Midler Hello, Dolly! were not particularly innovative, but they were wonderful.
by Anonymous | reply 106 | December 17, 2020 9:17 PM |
The recent WSS revival was only adored by SJWs.
by Anonymous | reply 107 | December 17, 2020 9:18 PM |
[quote]Tears were streaming down my face at the end, a first time for me with WSS.
I have yet to see a production of WWS that did NOT have that effect on me.
by Anonymous | reply 108 | December 17, 2020 9:19 PM |
[quote]The von Hove production really does take a knife to the show, so much is rethought.
Yes, that's an understatement.
[quote]The rare production where you believe those boys are gang members and could kill each other.
In my opinion, that's exactly the opposite of how you're supposed to feel about the gang members. You're supposed to understand that they're just kids who could just as easily love as hate each other if their socio-economic situation wasn't so grim, and if they weren't set up to hate each other for various reasons. This is one of the worst examples of von Hove's misreading of the show. And why should any of us have an "open mind" to a production that's so often at odds with what the original creators intended?
[quote]And yet also the rare production where you believe Tony and Maria fall in love at first sight.
Of course, I don't know what previous productions you've seen, but I've seen several in which the love-at-first-sight thing was completely credible, and few if any in which it wasn't.
[quote]I certainly hope it returns after Covid. I'd certainly see it again.
In contrast, the friend with whom I saw the show later said that its closing was one of the few good things to come out of the tragedy of the pandemic :-)
by Anonymous | reply 109 | December 17, 2020 9:22 PM |
[quote] I don't mean this to sound condescending
And yet.
by Anonymous | reply 110 | December 17, 2020 9:23 PM |
In the film remake of WSS “I Feel Pretty” is performed after the rumble. I forgot where I read this.
by Anonymous | reply 111 | December 17, 2020 9:37 PM |
Every time I look at the title of this thread in the list on the right, I think it's going to say- Changing my subject to Joan.
by Anonymous | reply 112 | December 17, 2020 9:48 PM |
R110, thanks for your brilliant contribution to this discussion.
R111, interesting. I would be surprised if that's true, but maybe Kushner and Spielberg saw this as a way to depart a bit from the previous film. I guess we'll see eventually.
by Anonymous | reply 113 | December 17, 2020 9:48 PM |
I would be surprised if WSS didn't come back post-Covid. Even with all the changes and divisive response to it, it's a big marquee name show that tourists will see, and it's not reliant on stars, so any re-casting would be easy to do and not have much of an effect on sales.
by Anonymous | reply 114 | December 17, 2020 9:49 PM |
The Roundabout revival of PJ Game was delightful from start to finish. I’ve never liked Kelli O’Hara more.
by Anonymous | reply 115 | December 17, 2020 9:52 PM |
To be fair, it's hard to like Kelli O'Hara at all.
by Anonymous | reply 116 | December 17, 2020 9:53 PM |
Marin Mazzie should have played babe in that PJ revival.
by Anonymous | reply 117 | December 17, 2020 9:54 PM |
[quote] The recent WSS revival was only adored by SJWs.
It was the new Head Over Heels
by Anonymous | reply 118 | December 17, 2020 9:58 PM |
Kelli was miscast in that PJ GAME revival, and so her performance was adequate at best. But, apparently, Mr. Connick liked her A LOT.
by Anonymous | reply 119 | December 17, 2020 9:59 PM |
Ughh. Harry Connick Jr.
Remember when he was a thing?
by Anonymous | reply 120 | December 17, 2020 10:03 PM |
Under Beverly Sills, NYCO did some Broadway musicals. In 1989, they did PAJAMA GAME. Judy Kaye played Babe, Richard Muenz played Sid and DL's own Lenora Nemetz played Gladys. It was wonderful to see her doing Steam Heat. Her work with Fosse on CHICAGO stood her in good stead. She reeeeeeeally had the Fosse style. Much more than Ann Reinking or Chita Rivera. If you watch the Gwen and Chita doing the Hot Honey Rag, they are not in perfect unison. Chita is a genius, but at every turn, Gwen shows you the Fosse style. He developed it with her. So, naturally, Chita was one step removed. Even so, some of the discrepancies are surprising. But Lenora Nemetz really nailed how his movement flowed. She had it in CHICAGO and she still had it in PAJAMA GAME.
The film is very stage bound. They changed very little for the movies. There are some advantages to that, though. Steam Heat is one of them. And I'll Never Be Jealous Again. Thank God this was preserved, just as it is.
by Anonymous | reply 121 | December 17, 2020 10:11 PM |
Judy Kaye was never any kind of "babe" a day in her life.
by Anonymous | reply 122 | December 17, 2020 10:14 PM |
Oh, Patti Lu! I saw Judy Kaye when she covered your vacation in SWEENEY TODD.
Not only did I see her, I heard her. Every note. Every word. Every syllable.
by Anonymous | reply 123 | December 17, 2020 10:17 PM |
[quote]The film is very stage bound. They changed very little for the movies.
I'm not always sure what people mean when they say this about film adaptations of Broadway musicals. Can you give some examples of how you would have made the PAJAMA GAME movie less "stage bound?" I don't think it's stage bound at all in terms of the camera movements or the way the numbers are plotted.
by Anonymous | reply 124 | December 17, 2020 10:32 PM |
Cool, R125. Particularly "Steam Heat."
Amazing what turns up on YouTube.
by Anonymous | reply 126 | December 17, 2020 10:40 PM |
Oh, thank you for that, R125!!!
by Anonymous | reply 127 | December 17, 2020 10:43 PM |
Carol Haney made quite a splash in "Pajama Game", but when Shirley MacLaine subbed for her, and did the Hitchcock movie they were scouting Carol for, why didn't Carol seem to get another Broadway follow-up role? It seemed like she did the "Pajama Game" film and then moved into choreography.
by Anonymous | reply 128 | December 17, 2020 10:51 PM |
R58: even that one little demo demonstrates more musical inventiveness and sophistication than anything Andrew Lloyd Webber wrote for his version.
by Anonymous | reply 129 | December 17, 2020 10:55 PM |
Reta taught Doris everything she knew, r99...
by Anonymous | reply 130 | December 17, 2020 11:08 PM |
Irra Petina?
Well then, I demand the next thread be in honor of Umm Kulthum!
by Anonymous | reply 132 | December 18, 2020 12:06 AM |
What about Carmen Mathews...or Jane Connell?
by Anonymous | reply 133 | December 18, 2020 12:19 AM |
That poster of Belle’s Scarlett Letter misspells Letch Feeley’s name!
by Anonymous | reply 134 | December 18, 2020 12:35 AM |
[quote]Patti in Mahagonny...
I've seen Mahogony and Patti LuPone is nowhere in that movie. Next you'll be telling me Patti was in The Wiz.
by Anonymous | reply 135 | December 18, 2020 1:09 AM |
r134 Letch himself noted that error at R54.
And YOU misspelled "Scarlet."
by Anonymous | reply 136 | December 18, 2020 1:35 AM |
What was the ending of the ORIGINAL (non-musical) "Little Shop of Horrors?"
by Anonymous | reply 137 | December 18, 2020 1:35 AM |
[quote] Fink and Stoolie attend a sunset celebration at the shop during which Seymour is to be presented with the trophy and Audrey Jr.'s buds are expected to open. As the attendees watch, four buds open; inside each flower is the face of one of the plant's victims. Fink and Stoolie realize that Seymour is the murderer; he flees from the shop with the officers in pursuit. He manages to lose them and make his way back to the now-empty shop. Grabbing a kitchen knife, Seymour climbs into Audrey Jr.'s maw saying, "I'll feed you like you've never been fed before!" Later that evening, it is discovered that Audrey Jr. has begun to wither and die. One final bud opens to reveal Seymour's face. He pitifully moans, "I didn't mean it" and the flower droops, apparently ending Audrey Jr.'s life.
by Anonymous | reply 138 | December 18, 2020 1:40 AM |
Carol Haney was a terrific dancer, but based on her appearance in the movie of PAJAMA GAME, she had a face for radio. That may have limited her options.
by Anonymous | reply 139 | December 18, 2020 3:28 AM |
Also, once Shirley MacLaine got to Hollywood with her Carol Haney hairdo, there was no room for Carol Haney.
by Anonymous | reply 140 | December 18, 2020 3:32 AM |
Was Carol/Shirley a Tonya Harding-style takeout?
by Anonymous | reply 141 | December 18, 2020 3:36 AM |
Yup. Bitch stole my hairdo, too.
by Anonymous | reply 142 | December 18, 2020 3:36 AM |
[quote]Was Carol/Shirley a Tonya Harding-style takeout?
I don't think so. Shirley admits that in a couple of performances, she dropped her hat in the Steam Heat number. If it was a takeout, she would have been perfect at catching that hat.
by Anonymous | reply 143 | December 18, 2020 4:31 AM |
[quote]R59, I believe America was originally conceived for the men and women to sing, but Robbins made it an all female number.
Yes, I have read that as well. And apparently the reason why the men were cut from the number was that, at the time, Robbins couldn't find men who were or looked convincingly Latino and could also handle the difficult choreography -- which, by the way, I believe was by Peter Gennaro for that number.
by Anonymous | reply 144 | December 18, 2020 5:19 AM |
Gennaro absolutely choreographed America, at Robbins’ behest.
by Anonymous | reply 145 | December 18, 2020 5:37 AM |
I think it was that when Shirley dropped that hat in "Steam Heat" and said "Shit!" that she caused a sensation; folks didn't curse on Broadway (at least in the script or on-stage) back then.
by Anonymous | reply 146 | December 18, 2020 5:46 AM |
How fucking unprofessional.
by Anonymous | reply 147 | December 18, 2020 5:48 AM |
Was Reta Shaw a girl-lover?
by Anonymous | reply 148 | December 18, 2020 9:59 AM |
From Wikipedia: "Haney appeared in a few shows after The Pajama Game, but developed paralyzing stage fright."
That's why she decided to mostly give up performing and concentrate on choreographing. She did do William Inge's A Loss of Roses with Warren Beatty, but when it was turned into the movie The Stripper, Joanne Woodward replaced Haney.
by Anonymous | reply 149 | December 18, 2020 10:08 AM |
Is that Steam Heat supposed to be Lenora Nemetz at her Fosse best? Because it's very bland. They're doing Fosse moves but without any Fosse style.
by Anonymous | reply 150 | December 18, 2020 10:10 AM |
Don't forget, Carol Haney is featured dancing with Fosse in "From This Moment On" in MGM's Kiss Me Kate. She looks sensationally sexy in it though, to be honest, there are no real closeups on her face.
The film premiered in 1953 and must have been shot just before Pajama Game opened on Broadway the same year. I believe Haney had done quite a bit of dance coaching in Hollywood in the early 1950s so she might have been somewhat known by execs there.
by Anonymous | reply 151 | December 18, 2020 1:39 PM |
Interesting that Shirley MacLaine didn't make any musical films at the beginning of her Hollywood career even though she was discovered singing and dancing in a Broadway musical.
by Anonymous | reply 152 | December 18, 2020 1:42 PM |
Joanne Woodward Plays A Stripper In The Stripper
by Anonymous | reply 153 | December 18, 2020 2:19 PM |
Carol Haney was Gene Kelly's assistant before she did "Pajama Game" on Broadway. Gwen Verdon was Jack Cole's assistant. When Haney was dubbing in Gene Kelly's taps and footwork sounds for "Singin' in the Rain", she enlisted Verdon to help her, apparently putting their feet in buckets of water to record the sounds for the soundtrack, which they thought was very funny to do.
by Anonymous | reply 154 | December 18, 2020 2:42 PM |
R109, if you are not supposed to believe this kids are capable of killing each other, is it some meta-theatrical moment when they do?
In most productions of most plays, you are supposed to believe that the characters are capable of doing the things that that they do.
by Anonymous | reply 155 | December 18, 2020 2:59 PM |
Fun anecdote r154. Really cool tidbit.
by Anonymous | reply 156 | December 18, 2020 3:15 PM |
[R59], I believe America was originally conceived for the men and women to sing, but Robbins made it an all female number.
But how would the original lyrics work with the boys? The film version is better-written and works much better.
by Anonymous | reply 157 | December 18, 2020 6:03 PM |
In the film remake it begins with the girls and ends up on the streets like a Puerto Rican Day celebration.
by Anonymous | reply 158 | December 18, 2020 6:36 PM |
Will it also be cut in syndication?
by Anonymous | reply 159 | December 18, 2020 6:59 PM |
How many prostitutes/fallen women did Patti LuPone play?
The Cradle Will Rock
Evita
Oliver
Les Miserables
by Anonymous | reply 160 | December 18, 2020 7:19 PM |
r160 On TV, the customer of the male whore played by DL fave David Corenswet.
by Anonymous | reply 161 | December 18, 2020 7:22 PM |
Leokadja Begbick wasn't Little Mary Sunshine, r160.
by Anonymous | reply 162 | December 18, 2020 7:28 PM |
[quote]If you are not supposed to believe this kids are capable of killing each other, is it some meta-theatrical moment when they do?
R155, I didn't mean and did not write that we are "not supposed to believe the kids are capable of killing each other," I meant that we are not supposed to believe they are killers at heart. We are supposed to understand that they are basically good human beings who have come to have a great deal of anger and hatred in their hearts due to social circumstances and peer pressure. I have to say, the incredibly low level of reading comprehension on the part of some DL posters is continually surprising, and I think it's an annoying waste of time when people argue a point that no one has made.
[quote]I believe America was originally conceived for the men and women to sing, but Robbins made it an all female number.
[quote]But how would the original lyrics work with the boys? The film version is better-written and works much better.
The lyrics for the original stage version of the number, when the Shark men were going to be in it, were different than what ended up in the show and on the original cast album. I believe all or some of the men's lyrics that you here in the movie were from the original stage version of the number.
by Anonymous | reply 163 | December 18, 2020 7:47 PM |
Wasn't the character she played in Life Goes on an ex-whore? How else to explain the birth of her mongoloid first child?
by Anonymous | reply 164 | December 18, 2020 8:08 PM |
[quote]Wasn't the character she played in Life Goes on an ex-whore?
Only to a paycheck, kids. At least the retarded kid and the geeky daughter were sweet. That dude playing my husband was one no-talent POS, though.
Life goes on... and on and on. That fuckin' show ran for 4 seasons.
by Anonymous | reply 165 | December 18, 2020 8:14 PM |
Where the fuck did David Corenswet materialize from? Was he fucking Murphy?
by Anonymous | reply 166 | December 18, 2020 8:25 PM |
I'm the old Broadway traditionalist who loved the von Hove production. And as I said it was the first time I believed those kids were capable of killing each other.
Don't know about you, r163, but NO, I didn't believe Richard Beymer and George Chakiris and Russ Tamblyn were teenagers capable of being pushed to murder each other. And I didn't believe Kurt Peterson was capable in the 1968 State Theater revival or Ken Marshall and Stephen Bogardus in the 1980 revival and certainly not Matt Cavenaugh and Cody Green in the woeful 2009 revival or Paul Alexander Nolan in the Stratford, Ontario revival. And those are just some of the more famous revivals I've seen of WSS.
But I totally believed Isaac Powell and the young men of this recent revival were actual teenaged gang members, street kids growing up and surviving in the back alleys of NY and YES, capable of killing each other. A lot of that was the absence of balletic choreography. Did I miss the classic Robbins choreography? Yes, but I've seen it; and the new muscular hyper-macho movement of whoever ultimately choreographed this one was riveting, scary and sexy. It also helped that the kids were dressed in real street fashion, not color-coded hoodies, blue jeans and high tops.
I get it, this may not be a WSS for everyone. But for those like myself who are looking for a truly innovative interpretation and willing to open their eyes and ears, it's very worthy. And please note, I don't call this production a revival. This one is really a re-interpretation.
by Anonymous | reply 167 | December 18, 2020 8:31 PM |
[quote] Was Reta Shaw a girl-lover? —Hope Emerson
She never fucked me.
by Anonymous | reply 168 | December 18, 2020 8:31 PM |
The thing that really put a damper on Carol Haney's post-PAJAMA GAME-film career was her death seven years later. But in between those two events she choreographed four Broadway shows.
by Anonymous | reply 169 | December 18, 2020 8:49 PM |
'but NO, I didn't believe Richard Beymer and George Chakiris and Russ Tamblyn were teenagers capable of being pushed to murder each other. '
You and Pauline Kael are the only two out of the many many millions who have seen the film not associated with the Broadway production who evidently feel that way. That's not something to be proud of.
Let's not forget Ernest Lehman who did so much to improve the structure of not only WSS but also Sound of Music so that when you see them on stage they seem off kilter. I wish he had done a better job with Dolly where he turns a silly musical even sillier though much of his dialogue is very funny. It didn't help that Kelly turns the three juveniles into imbeciles.
by Anonymous | reply 170 | December 18, 2020 9:01 PM |
Pajama Game really needed a better co-star for Day. She needed to be set up against another star like Keel or MacRae. Though not of her magnitude at this point in time they still had a screen presence of which Raitt has so very little. Also Maclaine would have made a much funnier and prettier Gladys on film than Haney. Warner was clearly doing a budget version of the show blowing his wad on Day. Much like 1776 which really needed some star power to punch up that cast of tired Broadway hams. He also needed a better film director who didn't make being trapped in the chamber of the continental congress for two and a half hours more of an ordeal for movie audiences than it was even for the congressmen. I grew up loving the obc of 1776 and then when I saw the film I felt like I was watching cement harden.
by Anonymous | reply 171 | December 18, 2020 9:16 PM |
[quote]Carol Haney was Gene Kelly's assistant before she did "Pajama Game" on Broadway. Gwen Verdon was Jack Cole's assistant
Haney was Jack Cole's assistant first, from 1946-48. When Haney moved on to work as Kelly's assistant in LA, Verdon replaced her with Cole.
by Anonymous | reply 172 | December 18, 2020 9:19 PM |
1776 was the very first Broadway show I ever saw. I was hooked on the format for life.
by Anonymous | reply 173 | December 18, 2020 9:19 PM |
[quote]blowing his wad on Day
So many men did.
by Anonymous | reply 174 | December 18, 2020 9:20 PM |
[quote]blowing his wad on Day
Pics please.
by Anonymous | reply 175 | December 18, 2020 9:31 PM |
[quote] The thing that really put a damper on Carol Haney's post-PAJAMA GAME-film career was her death seven years later. But in between those two events she choreographed four Broadway shows.
I wonder what she was reincarnated as.
by Anonymous | reply 178 | December 18, 2020 10:08 PM |
Wow. Anne Baxter's "Welcome to the Theatre" is better than Bacall's, better sung. But her "But Alive" is seriously underpowered and lacking the undeniable star quality that Bacall brought to it.
by Anonymous | reply 179 | December 18, 2020 10:10 PM |
[quote]The thing that really put a damper on Carol Haney's post-PAJAMA GAME-film career was her death seven years later.
Death'll do that to a career.
by Anonymous | reply 180 | December 18, 2020 10:11 PM |
[quote]Don't know about you, [R163], but NO, I didn't believe Richard Beymer and George Chakiris and Russ Tamblyn were teenagers capable of being pushed to murder each other. And I didn't believe Kurt Peterson was capable in the 1968 State Theater revival or Ken Marshall and Stephen Bogardus in the 1980 revival and certainly not Matt Cavenaugh and Cody Green in the woeful 2009 revival or Paul Alexander Nolan in the Stratford, Ontario revival. And those are just some of the more famous revivals I've seen of WSS. But I totally believed Isaac Powell and the young men of this recent revival were actual teenaged gang members, street kids growing up and surviving in the back alleys of NY and YES, capable of killing each other. A lot of that was the absence of balletic choreography. Did I miss the classic Robbins choreography? Yes, but I've seen it; and the new muscular hyper-macho movement of whoever ultimately choreographed this one was riveting, scary and sexy. It also helped that the kids were dressed in real street fashion, not color-coded hoodies, blue jeans and high tops.
Seems as though you have never really bought into the form of stylization -- street thugs performing balletic choreography, etc. -- that has existed in WEST SIDE STORY for more than 60 years, until this production (of something that was not really WEST SIDE STORY). You didn't mention all the tattoos in the van Hove debacle, which is surprising, as I'm guessing that superficial if anachronistic touch also helped you believe them as "actual gang members." I'm also surprised that you say you "missed" the Robbins choreography, because it doesn't sound like you missed it at all.
by Anonymous | reply 181 | December 18, 2020 10:20 PM |
R179. Did you listen to the scene after the song? Audience loved her.
by Anonymous | reply 182 | December 18, 2020 10:30 PM |
[quote]Don't know about you, [[R163]], but NO, I didn't believe Richard Beymer and George Chakiris and Russ Tamblyn were teenagers capable of being pushed to murder each other... But I totally believed Isaac Powell and the young men of this recent revival were actual teenaged gang members, street kids growing up and surviving in the back alleys of NY and YES, capable of killing each other. A lot of that was the absence of balletic choreography.
I honestly thought you were going to say it was because the cast in the recent revival was made up mainly of blacks and Latinos.
by Anonymous | reply 183 | December 18, 2020 10:34 PM |
[quote]Pajama Game really needed a better co-star for Day. She needed to be set up against another star like Keel or MacRae. Though not of her magnitude at this point in time they still had a screen presence of which Raitt has so very little. Also Maclaine would have made a much funnier and prettier Gladys on film than Haney. Warner was clearly doing a budget version of the show blowing his wad on Day. Much like 1776 which really needed some star power to punch up that cast of tired Broadway hams. He also needed a better film director who didn't make being trapped in the chamber of the continental congress for two and a half hours more of an ordeal for movie audiences than it was even for the congressmen. I grew up loving the obc of 1776 and then when I saw the film I felt like I was watching cement harden.
I was pretty much with you for the first half of your post, about PAJAMA GAME, but you lost me when you started expressing your strange opinions on the movie of 1776. You are literally the only person I've ever heard object to the casting of the film with veterans of the stage show other than Blythe Danner, who is perfection as Martha Jefferson, and who at that time was also known primarily as a stage performer. And the only things wrong with the direction of the movie, as far as I'm concerned, is that unfortunately Peter Hunt wasn't open to any cuts and edits to the script (or the score, but that didn't need any cuts), which left it up to Jack Warner to do it after the fact.
by Anonymous | reply 185 | December 18, 2020 10:42 PM |
Celeste Holm, by many accounts, was a cunt. I wonder if she was pissed not to get to play Applause, either on Broadway, touring or regionally.
by Anonymous | reply 186 | December 18, 2020 11:29 PM |
R186. Holm was too old by the time the musical came along, though she seems to have married Duane (the Lee Roy Reams gay hairdresser) in her dotage, so it might have worked.
by Anonymous | reply 187 | December 18, 2020 11:33 PM |
Bette Davis watched the show from the wings a few times. How fucking annoying must that have been?
by Anonymous | reply 188 | December 19, 2020 12:04 AM |
Oh please, Celeste got to do King & I and MAME. I'm sure she had zero interest in APPLAUSE.
by Anonymous | reply 189 | December 19, 2020 12:08 AM |
Whenever I see 'Applause' written out, I always think 'Applesauce.'
by Anonymous | reply 190 | December 19, 2020 12:15 AM |
[quote]I honestly thought you were going to say it was because the cast in the recent revival was made up mainly of blacks and Latinos.
Yikes, good point. Maybe that IS at least part of the reason why that poster thought the actors in the van Hove production were more believable as "actual teenaged gang members...capable of killing each other," and he doesn't even realize it.
by Anonymous | reply 191 | December 19, 2020 12:16 AM |
Unconscious racism? On a DL Theatre Gossip thread?
Gasp!
by Anonymous | reply 192 | December 19, 2020 12:22 AM |
It is weird to hear someone refer to De Keersmaeker as "whoever."
She is certainly as least as well known as Robbins was in the 60s.
But it shows that musical theater folk do not know much about music, dance, or theater outside of musical theater.
Her critical renown and the many many imitations of her vocabulary for over three decades seems not to have penetrated the radar of musical theater aficionados.
by Anonymous | reply 193 | December 19, 2020 12:29 AM |
[quote]Her critical renown and the many many imitations of her vocabulary for over three decades seems not to have penetrated the radar of musical theater aficionados.
I think contemporary musical theatre is a couple of decades behind (at least) regarding what's going on in dance. The last time I was impressed by new choreography was Justin Peck's work in the last CAROUSEL revival. I'm not sure why/when dance stopped mattering in musicals, but it's almost an afterthought these days. It's a shame.
by Anonymous | reply 194 | December 19, 2020 12:59 AM |
Relax, r193, and read. There were reports of other choreographer(s) being brought in to help make it all work. That is what r167 is referring to when they say “ultimately”
You bitches are botches
by Anonymous | reply 195 | December 19, 2020 1:00 AM |
Bitches
by Anonymous | reply 196 | December 19, 2020 1:02 AM |
I heard the same roomer, R195, but it ultimately turned out not to be true.
by Anonymous | reply 197 | December 19, 2020 1:10 AM |
^^rumor
by Anonymous | reply 198 | December 19, 2020 1:10 AM |
“The former Miami City Ballet principal Patricia Lucia Delgado, who is also an associate producer, and the Tony-winning choreographer Sergio Trujillo are the production’s dance consultants.“
by Anonymous | reply 199 | December 19, 2020 1:25 AM |
R199, someone who was in the production told me that this was not like a Peter Gennaro situation (who choreographed two entire numbers for Robbins), but more of assistance in smoothing out some of the more difficult choreography so the dancers could execute it better.
by Anonymous | reply 200 | December 19, 2020 1:41 AM |
R193 still overreacted
by Anonymous | reply 201 | December 19, 2020 1:44 AM |
Not really a reaction at all R201. But I meet a lot of people who work in straight theater/film and others who work in musicals. The people in regular theater/film are a lot more knowledgeable about music, dance, etc than the musical theater people.
I always think its weird since musical make use of those other disciplines.
by Anonymous | reply 202 | December 19, 2020 1:49 AM |
Botches works too. But not butches.
by Anonymous | reply 203 | December 19, 2020 1:50 AM |
Celeste was always a Karen, never a Margo.
by Anonymous | reply 205 | December 19, 2020 1:59 AM |
[quote]Celeste was always a Karen, never a Margo.
Considering her legendary cuntiness, she was probably the ORIGINAL "Karen."
by Anonymous | reply 206 | December 19, 2020 2:14 AM |
Celeste Holm - cunting America from 1917-2012
by Anonymous | reply 207 | December 19, 2020 2:24 AM |
1776 opened at Radio City as the Christmas movie for that year and I wanted to love it because I loved the score and what better place to see it? I didn't. I found it a huge bore. I also remember sitting in the packed orchestra which is 3,000 people and the audience was very restless which didn't help. That summer when the film Butterflies are Free played at the Hall there was a preview for the musical and it included part of Cool Cool Considerate Men. Imagine sitting through the movie and wondering what the hell happened to that number. I had no idea that somewhere between that summer and the Nov opening of the film Nixon had gotten hold of Jack Warner and told him he wanted the number cut.
I agree about Danner. She's got a wonderful entrance and you can imagine how magical it was on the Music Hall's wide screen. It woke me up. Suddenly it turned into a movie. Yes small edits would have helped along with tighter direction but sometimes an entire Broadway cast is not the best thing for a movie. It needed a few more charismatic screen performances among the men. But what can I say. It's one of those beloved films which I don't love. There are people who don't like the film of My Fair Lady but depending on what day it is or if I'm watching the dazzling 50th anniversary bluray it's my favorite film.
by Anonymous | reply 208 | December 19, 2020 2:38 AM |
I usually watch My Fair Lady up until they get back from the ball. They've accomplished their task, but the movie drags on for another hour. The "Get Me to the Church on Time" is unbearable, because it goes on for five minutes and all they do is repeat the same lyrics over and over again. Also, that scene brings the movie to a halt, and it was already dragging by that point.
by Anonymous | reply 209 | December 19, 2020 2:49 AM |
I don't want to start a Shirley MacLaine thread but since we were talking about her upthread, I'll just say I'm finally watching The Apartment on TCM in its entirety and Shirley is so damn good in it. So fresh and naturally adorable and believable as the working class elevator operator.
I think it was all downhill after that, she really didn't have the range to play anything but a version of that ordinary girl, which she did, more or less, in all her 1950s films. Her talents did not age well but she was wonderful in the 1950s.
by Anonymous | reply 210 | December 19, 2020 3:06 AM |
What a silly comment. Shirl has more than one good movie role.
by Anonymous | reply 211 | December 19, 2020 3:12 AM |
Incidentally, when did they stop having elevator operators? I've always found it funny that they hired people to push the floor buttons for other people.
by Anonymous | reply 212 | December 19, 2020 3:16 AM |
Shirl is absolutely adorable, as is Anthony Perkins opposite her, in the fine Shirley Booth-led film of "The Matchmaker".
by Anonymous | reply 213 | December 19, 2020 3:28 AM |
Yes, she's wonderful in The Matchmaker, Ask Any Girl, Some Came Running, The Trouble With Harry. It's her post-The Apartment films where she became an annoying ham.
by Anonymous | reply 214 | December 19, 2020 3:41 AM |
It's still hard for me to believe that Shirley MacLaine and Warren Beatty are brother and sister, never mind that they grew up together. The only other actor siblings I feel that way about are River and Joaquin Phoenix.
by Anonymous | reply 215 | December 19, 2020 3:53 AM |
[quote]I usually watch My Fair Lady up until they get back from the ball. They've accomplished their task, but the movie drags on for another hour. The "Get Me to the Church on Time" is unbearable, because it goes on for five minutes and all they do is repeat the same lyrics over and over again. Also, that scene brings the movie to a halt, and it was already dragging by that point.
I agree 100 percent about "Get Me To The Church on Time." In the original production, it was apparently a show-stopping dance number for the ensemble, but in the movie, for some idiotic reason, there is NO actual dancing in it, other than about half a minute of soft-shoe by Stanley Holloway. One of the worst of several major flaws of that movie, which does have many wonderful things about it as well.
by Anonymous | reply 216 | December 19, 2020 5:14 AM |
[quote]One of the worst of several major flaws of that movie, which does have many wonderful things about it as well.
I can't think of a single wonderful thing in that turd of a movie;
by Anonymous | reply 217 | December 19, 2020 9:46 AM |
r212 There are still elevator operators out there in older buildings that haven't converted to automatic elevators.
by Anonymous | reply 218 | December 19, 2020 1:23 PM |
I want to see Carol Haney's choreography from BRAVO, GIOVANNI.
by Anonymous | reply 219 | December 19, 2020 3:12 PM |
Haney also did the dances for "Funny Girl" on Broadway, though it might have been a challenge dealing with Streisand, plus wasn't Jerome Robbins brought in as well? He was no walk in the park to deal with.
by Anonymous | reply 221 | December 19, 2020 3:42 PM |
If Haney didn't drink before Funny Girl, she certainly drank after.
by Anonymous | reply 222 | December 19, 2020 4:29 PM |
Did she choreograph Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat-Tat- Tat... Tat?
by Anonymous | reply 223 | December 19, 2020 4:33 PM |
[quote]I can't think of a single wonderful thing in that turd of a movie
During the Overture and Opening Credits, the flowers are nice.
by Anonymous | reply 224 | December 19, 2020 4:35 PM |
Get Me To the Church on Time is turned from a dance to a pubcrawl. It is wonderfully staged and shot. A highlight of the film.
by Anonymous | reply 225 | December 19, 2020 5:32 PM |
Don't some of those very familiar American old character actors turn up in Get Me to the Church on Time? Isn't Barbara Pepper in it?
by Anonymous | reply 226 | December 19, 2020 5:50 PM |
Yes, Barbara Pepper is in it.
by Anonymous | reply 227 | December 19, 2020 5:54 PM |
[quote]I can't think of a single wonderful thing in that turd of a movie.
Oh, come on. The production and costume design, the musical scoring, several of the performances, and so on.
[quote]There are still elevator operators out there in older buildings that haven't converted to automatic elevators.
The question was why elevator operators were ever thought necessary in automatic elevators with push buttons. I guess they were hired as an indication of status in high-end apartment and office buildings, like those attendants in rest rooms at high-end restaurants and clubs.
[quote]Get Me To the Church on Time is turned from a dance to a pubcrawl. It is wonderfully staged and shot. A highlight of the film.
I totally disagree. The number as performed in the film might work if it were about half as long, but the way it is -- as someone else pointed out -- the number keeps going on and on as everyone keeps singing the same lyrics over and over and over again. And there's no progression to the number, because we just see Doolittle and his friends moving from one pub to another and doing pretty much he same thing in each one. I do like the way the ending is staged and shot, the "morning after" section. One of the biggest flaws of the MFL film is that it has very little actual dancing throughout, I think because that was the era when some Hollywood people had started to become afraid of musicals that seemed like real musicals, so they tried to make them more realistic but cutting out or cutting down on choral singing and dancing of all types.
by Anonymous | reply 228 | December 19, 2020 7:29 PM |
"My Fair Lady" doesn't have that much dancing in it, though I once saw a production in London where Anna Neagle was playing Higgin's mother, and they basically created something of a dance specialty for her during the Embassy Ball! This was in the midst of its run, but it wasn't a particularly good production.
by Anonymous | reply 229 | December 19, 2020 7:33 PM |
Yes, it would have been better if they had Onna White's twirling maids from Oliver!
by Anonymous | reply 230 | December 19, 2020 7:34 PM |
[Quote] The question was why elevator operators were ever thought necessary in automatic elevators with push buttons. I guess they were hired as an indication of status in high-end apartment and office buildings, like those attendants in rest rooms at high-end restaurants and clubs.
An aged relative of mine has broken every CD player I've got him. How has he broken them? I have no idea. Neither does he. Long story short: People who don't know how to treat mechanical objects manage to break them all the time. It only takes being excessively rough.
by Anonymous | reply 231 | December 19, 2020 7:34 PM |
I usually stop watching the film version of Fiddler on the Roof after the wedding scene. The plot just repeats itself after that. Although, yes, Do You Love Me is charming and Anatevka is moving and Fyedka is pretty.
by Anonymous | reply 232 | December 19, 2020 7:37 PM |
A short interview of Patti when everything was fine in Sunset.
by Anonymous | reply 233 | December 19, 2020 7:37 PM |
[quote]An aged relative of mine has broken every CD player I've got him. How has he broken them? I have no idea. Neither does he. Long story short: People who don't know how to treat mechanical objects manage to break them all the time. It only takes being excessively rough.
Thanks, but what does that have to do with the question of why people were employed to push buttons in automated elevators? Your aged relative sounds like a rather, umm, special case. Are you saying you think there are so many people who don't know how to push the correct button in an elevator for the floor they want that it was necessary to hire people to do so? I rather think, as I said, that it was a status symbol on the part of some companies and landlords.
[quote]I usually stop watching the film version of Fiddler on the Roof after the wedding scene. The plot just repeats itself after that.
Sorry, but that's an incredibly strange and inaccurate comment The plot of FIDDLER does not remotely "repeat itself" after the wedding scene. Do you stop watching THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANK halfway through because you think the plot keeps repeating itself thereafter?
by Anonymous | reply 235 | December 19, 2020 8:11 PM |
[Quote] what does that have to do with the question of why people were employed to push buttons in automated elevators?
People can break simple mechanical objects quite easily. An operator knows how to treat the machinery.
by Anonymous | reply 236 | December 19, 2020 8:13 PM |
The only reason that "Get Me To The Church" exists is so that they could use the chorus in Act 2. Most of Act 2 is between Eliza and Higgins and they needed a big chorus number in Act 2. That's not necessary in a film, so they could have cut the number altogether because it really serves no purpose: doesn't advance the plot, doesn't tell us anything new about Doolittle. I'm sure the only reason they kept it in the movie was to ensure Stanley Holloway would play the role.
by Anonymous | reply 237 | December 19, 2020 8:13 PM |
It's a crowd pleaser. And one of the numbers famous beyond the show.
by Anonymous | reply 238 | December 19, 2020 8:15 PM |
I think the elevator operator was more about preserving a union job rather than any actual functionality. Once automatic elevators were installed, they tried to pass off the elevator operator as a de facto safety operator (in case of fire, the elevator operator calls the fire company and directs people where to go).
by Anonymous | reply 239 | December 19, 2020 8:17 PM |
It wasn't just about pushing buttons, r235, you ignorant slut. A lot of times the doors were tricky to open and close securely. Plus, the operator was in charge of getting the elevator level with the floor.
by Anonymous | reply 240 | December 19, 2020 8:18 PM |
[quote]It's a crowd pleaser. And one of the numbers famous beyond the show.
So was "Together, Wherever We Go" in Gypsy, but they didn't hesitate to cut that.
by Anonymous | reply 241 | December 19, 2020 8:20 PM |
[quote]Do you stop watching THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANK halfway through because you think the plot keeps repeating itself thereafter?
No, I just yell out, "She's in the attic!"
by Anonymous | reply 242 | December 19, 2020 8:21 PM |
[Quote] So was "Together, Wherever We Go" in Gypsy, but they didn't hesitate to cut that.
Well, they cared enough to film it, didn't they?
by Anonymous | reply 243 | December 19, 2020 8:28 PM |
r242 - I yell out "Damn you Otto Frank for buying Anne that drum set!"
by Anonymous | reply 244 | December 19, 2020 8:32 PM |
Uhm, R240, have you seen The Appartment? It is about just pushing buttons.
In the transition to automatic elevators, there was indeed a transition period where operators were still employed. After a few years they were phased out.
by Anonymous | reply 246 | December 19, 2020 8:40 PM |
Oh, I agree with you about the transition period, r246.
by Anonymous | reply 247 | December 19, 2020 8:45 PM |
Why wasn't "Promises, Promises" made into a movie. Or "Company"? Dean Jones was a screen star, after all.
by Anonymous | reply 248 | December 19, 2020 8:51 PM |
In the late sixties early seventies, no one really knew what to do with musicals on screen. The predominant model were the big roadshow pictures, like Star which were not making back their costs. The conventional wisdom was that film musicals did not work anymore.
Cabaret made bold choices, but not any that could be applied to any other show.
by Anonymous | reply 249 | December 19, 2020 9:05 PM |
And yet "Fiddler" was a success, no?
by Anonymous | reply 250 | December 19, 2020 9:17 PM |
I wish we'd gotten Julie and Dick's She Loves Me.
by Anonymous | reply 251 | December 19, 2020 9:40 PM |
Julie and Dick who?
by Anonymous | reply 252 | December 19, 2020 9:45 PM |
Andrews and Van Dyke.
by Anonymous | reply 253 | December 19, 2020 9:46 PM |
[quote]Haney also did the dances for "Funny Girl" on Broadway, though it might have been a challenge dealing with Streisand, plus wasn't Jerome Robbins brought in as well? He was no walk in the park to deal with.
Robbins was brought in for several weeks to doctor the entire production before it opened in New York. Haney was a fine choreographer and I doubt Robbins had concern himself much with the dancing.
by Anonymous | reply 256 | December 19, 2020 10:04 PM |
20th Century Fox brought the rights to Promises and Paramount had the rights to Coco but suddenly youth pictures that you made for peanuts and got a big return on were the thing. I do enjoy a few of the musicals from the period that were not big successes(ok they were thudding flops) but I really lament the loss of She Loves Me. Though to be honest I would have loved to have seen Massey recreate his role on film. There seems to be so little available of this wonderful actor. He and Julie would have been tremendous together. In fact all of Julie's lovers in Star! are so dull you wish she and Noel would just run off at the end and get married. Nobody expects a strict adherence to reality in a musical biopic.
by Anonymous | reply 257 | December 19, 2020 10:11 PM |
^To be more complete, Robbins was the original director/choreographer but eventually dropped out. Fosse was briefly involved. Finally Garson Kanin took over and is still the director of record but Streisand and he didn't get along and she asked to have Robbins back. He came back to shape and pace the show before it opened.
by Anonymous | reply 258 | December 19, 2020 10:15 PM |
That proposed film of She Loves Me with Andrews was to costar Dick Van Dyke, re-uniting them from Mary Poppins, before MGM puled the plug.
by Anonymous | reply 259 | December 19, 2020 10:24 PM |
[quote]Oh, come on. The production and costume design, the musical scoring, several of the performances, and so on.
I hate how Cecil Beaton made everything look "Edwardian by way of the 1960s" as opposed to his designs for the stage version. Audrey's hair for the ball was embarrassing. The only interesting thing in the scoring is that they changed the transition between Street Where You Live and I Could Have Danced All Night in the Overture.
by Anonymous | reply 261 | December 19, 2020 10:26 PM |
I understand their reticence, r259, but it had so much going for it that would keep it from being another lumbering, money-losing road show attraction. It was a small story that had been successfully filmed twice. Julie and Dick had proven screen chemistry. Oh well, 'twas not to be.
by Anonymous | reply 262 | December 19, 2020 10:33 PM |
[quote]Garson Kanin took over and is still the director of record but Streisand and he didn't get along
I wonder what their problem was?
by Anonymous | reply 263 | December 19, 2020 10:38 PM |
I think VanDyke would have been a disaster in SLM.
by Anonymous | reply 264 | December 19, 2020 11:01 PM |
[quote]People can break simple mechanical objects quite easily. An operator knows how to treat the machinery.
It would be impossible for someone to "break" an automatic, push-button elevator unless they were intent on vandalism, and would be difficult for them to do so even if they WERE intent on vandalism. Your comment is a perfect example of Person A arguing with Person B just for the sake of arguing, even when Person A's "point" is nonsensical.
[quote]The only reason that "Get Me To The Church" exists is so that they could use the chorus in Act 2. Most of Act 2 is between Eliza and Higgins and they needed a big chorus number in Act 2. That's not necessary in a film, so they could have cut the number altogether because it really serves no purpose: doesn't advance the plot, doesn't tell us anything new about Doolittle. I'm sure the only reason they kept it in the movie was to ensure Stanley Holloway would play the role.
There's only a small grain of truth or sense in your statement. Anyone with any knowledge of musical theater would know that the main reason why "Get Me to the Church on Time" is in the show, aside from giving Holloway as Doolittle another showcase number, is to give the audience a big, rousing song and dance number in the midst of a lot of solos and duets and talky book scenes involving only a few characters. That's why the song is necessary in the film as well, and why the powers that be largely botched it by cutting out all of the dancing (and by having Doolittle and the chorus sing the same lyrics over and over and over again).
by Anonymous | reply 265 | December 19, 2020 11:36 PM |
insufferable
by Anonymous | reply 266 | December 19, 2020 11:58 PM |
[quote]In the transition to automatic elevators, there was indeed a transition period where operators were still employed. After a few years they were phased out.
Yes, and that was the transition period I was talking about -- when elevator operators were just pushing buttons, and their jobs had nothing to do with opening mechanical doors or making sure the elevator lined up properly with the floor. Sadly, the bitchy individual at R240 was too dense to understand this, even though I had explained myself clearly.
by Anonymous | reply 267 | December 20, 2020 12:06 AM |
R266 = a bore whose only "contributions" to these threads are to insult me.
[quote]I think VanDyke would have been a disaster in SLM.
Why do you say that? What is it about that role that you don't think he could have handled? Or maybe you just don't like him as a performer in general? I think Georg in SHE LOVES ME would actually have been a more congenial role for him than either Bert in MARY POPPINS or Caractacus Potts in CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG, because in SLM there would have been no need for him to attempt a Brit accent, and Georg would have played to his strengths in other ways.
by Anonymous | reply 269 | December 20, 2020 12:47 AM |
In the film of The Apartment (I'm the poster that brought it up last night, please don't hate me), Jack Lemmon's character (in his early narration) says that his office building has so many thousands of employees that the dozens of floors are given staggered quitting times so as not to clog the elevators. So I can see how having elevator operators might have been useful in limiting the maximum capacity and kept things moving.
Also, pretty elevator operators gave the pussyhounds more to play with.
by Anonymous | reply 270 | December 20, 2020 12:49 AM |
I would never have believed Dick Van Dyke as a Hungarian.
by Anonymous | reply 271 | December 20, 2020 12:51 AM |
LOL, R271 :-)
by Anonymous | reply 272 | December 20, 2020 12:52 AM |
r270 - When you're right, you're right Miss Olsen...
by Anonymous | reply 273 | December 20, 2020 12:56 AM |
I remember thinking the male elevator operator in "Pretty Woman" was cute.
by Anonymous | reply 274 | December 20, 2020 1:02 AM |
That's Patrick Richwood. He also turned up in The Princess Diaries.
by Anonymous | reply 275 | December 20, 2020 2:52 AM |
Finally got bored enough to check out the prom. WTF with that songwriting?
by Anonymous | reply 276 | December 20, 2020 2:54 AM |
R107, congrats on pulling that bullshit out of your ass. SJWs HATED Ivo's WSS because of Amar Ramasar's casting and the omission of "I Feel Pretty" and the general fact that the women characters were short-changed for whatever it was that Ivo was trying to communicate about male violence.
by Anonymous | reply 277 | December 20, 2020 3:16 AM |
One last comment about elevator operators:
I remember when I first moved to NYC in the 1970s and lived in a huge old apartment building on West End Ave. We had only 2 elevators for 24 floors and 300 apartments. From about 5-6:30 pm every weekday the handy man would get in the elevator and switch controls so that he could operate it much faster by hand. At all other times it was push button and agonizingly slow in opening and closing the door. I think the slowness was very common back then with old elevators when they were only push button. I'm sure current NYers can verify that there are still a lot of those very slow elevators in older buildings.
by Anonymous | reply 278 | December 20, 2020 3:22 AM |
R269: He didn't use that accent again in [italic]Chitty[/italic], and thank God. They probably would have not let him do it if he had. It would have ruined "Hushabye Mountain." Caractacus could easily have been born while his mother and father were on vacation in the US, based on the song "Posh." That's the only explanation I can think of for why he's the only one in this tiny English village with an American accent. That was one of the first movie musicals to get a G rating on its initial release, and eventually as more and more musicals got that rating, that led to the stigma of musicals being perceived as kids' films (despite counterexamples such as [italic]Rocky Horror Picture Show[/italic]) combined with the recession and later AIDS made it harder and harder to get many of them greenlit.
And, of course, good old-fashioned guilt by association with LucyMAME.
by Anonymous | reply 279 | December 20, 2020 3:25 AM |
Dick Van Dyck could have gone either way in a movie of SHE LOVES ME. Had he delivered more Albert from BYE-BYE BIRDIE (put-upon but sincere straight man) and far less Bert from MARY POPPINS (over-the-top clowning and mugging), he may have actually been quite good.
by Anonymous | reply 280 | December 20, 2020 3:27 AM |
r277, while it's true that the women in Ivo's WSS were shortchanged in stage time, Maria was played cast and played with a fierceness and ownership I've never seen before. She was not a helpless ingenue. Another refreshing and revolutionary re-interpretation of this production.
by Anonymous | reply 281 | December 20, 2020 3:28 AM |
Would Rita have got Ilona?
by Anonymous | reply 282 | December 20, 2020 3:29 AM |
Lucy's MAME killed everything in its path.
It's why I always think of it as MAIM.
by Anonymous | reply 283 | December 20, 2020 3:29 AM |
R283: Think of all the musicals that didn't get greenlit because of the central miscasting at the heart of a film that could have been a hit.
by Anonymous | reply 284 | December 20, 2020 3:30 AM |
[quote]Well, they cared enough to film it, didn't they?
They sure did!
by Anonymous | reply 285 | December 20, 2020 3:30 AM |
Ben Vereen sang that song on [italic]Webster[/italic] in the episode where he took Web back to the school he and his father went to in Atlanta — without Katherine and George's permission.
by Anonymous | reply 286 | December 20, 2020 3:35 AM |
I could eat alphabet soup and shit better lyrics." - Johnny Mercer Talking about the prom
by Anonymous | reply 287 | December 20, 2020 3:43 AM |
Why are Broadway plays trying so hard to make a point? Is a simple story not good enough?
by Anonymous | reply 288 | December 20, 2020 3:48 AM |
There is very little dancing in MFL. Only a bit of old music hall hoofing, swanning about in elegant clothes and waltzing in a ballroom where people are supposed to waltz because that is what is done there. I saw the '76 revival on Broadway which was supposed to duplicate the original production and I don't remember much dancing there either. To all of a sudden have a big production number in the second half of the film would have been a where the hell did that come from moment. My Fair Lady is not Half a Sixpence.
by Anonymous | reply 289 | December 20, 2020 4:09 AM |
To go full-on [italic]Hello, Dolly![/italic] with that song would have been inconsistent with everything else. They nixed a shoot in actual London pubs because they wanted to keep everything in Burbank, but they wanted to keep it at a relatively reasonable scale. It's funny how the complaints contradict each other: one says it's too big and the other says it's not big enough. I disagree with both assertions! They really managed to create a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts, and that's why it's endured through all these years of re-releases and restorations and every new video format in the book. There'll probably even be a [italic]My Fair Lady[/italic] hologram someday. There was a Barbie doll in the 1990s that tried to recreate one of Cecil Beaton's costumes.
by Anonymous | reply 290 | December 20, 2020 4:13 AM |
I hope the van Hove WSS reopens on Broadway and then gets a tour. I wanna see it.
WSS was desperately in need of a real overhaul.
by Anonymous | reply 291 | December 20, 2020 4:50 AM |
[quote]He didn't use that accent again in Chitty, and thank God. They probably would have not let him do it if he had. It would have ruined "Hushabye Mountain." Caractacus could easily have been born while his mother and father were on vacation in the US, based on the song "Posh." That's the only explanation I can think of for why he's the only one in this tiny English village with an American accent.
That's what I meant. Van Dyke was raked over the coals for his Brit accent in MARY POPPINS, at least for his Cockney accent as Bert, not so much for his upper-crust accent as Mr. Dawes Sr.. So he attempted no Brit accent for CHITTY, and that made no sense, as he was the ONLY actor in the movie without one -- including the two who played his children.
[quote]That was one of the first movie musicals to get a G rating on its initial release, and eventually as more and more musicals got that rating, that led to the stigma of musicals being perceived as kids' films.
I don't understand your point. I'm pretty sure that every movie musical released before the rating system was established, maybe with the possible exception of WEST SIDE STORY, would have received a G rating if the system had been in place then.
[quote]While it's true that the women in Ivo's WSS were shortchanged in stage time, Maria was cast and played with a fierceness and ownership I've never seen before. She was not a helpless ingenue. Another refreshing and revolutionary re-interpretation of this production.
NO previous production of WSS that I have ever seen, including the movie, had a Maria who came across as a "helpless ingenue." The person who played the role in the van Hove production played it with lots of indicated "fierceness" and anger but little or no charm, and that was one of the show's biggest flaws. Oh, and someone decided that only Tony should sing "Somewhere," not Maria also, maybe because she couldn't sing it well. Come to think of it, maybe that was part of the reason why they cut "I Feel Pretty."
by Anonymous | reply 292 | December 20, 2020 5:02 AM |
[quote] I don't understand your point. I'm pretty sure that every movie musical released before the rating system was established, maybe with the possible exception of WEST SIDE STORY, would have received a G rating if the system had been in place then.
Not necessarily. Lots of times during the Production Code years, they bowdlerized the lyrics. 1962's [italic]Gypsy[/italic] is one such example; in "You Gotta Get a Gimmick," they replaced "grind your behind till you're banned" with "grind till you're fined or you're banned," which loses the alliteration but not the internal "-ind" rhyme.
by Anonymous | reply 293 | December 20, 2020 5:19 AM |
The Production Code of Old Hollywood (1934-1968) may have hindered creativity, but the new version of the Hay's Code (2015-) is also stifling creativity. The difference is that back then the religious right were in charge, but now that Hollywood has swung to the far-left, they now dictate what can and cannot be portrayed on screen or on stage. Nowadays, you can only get something seen if it applies to SJW rules. Either way, the arts suffer because it is not talent being picked but quotas.
by Anonymous | reply 294 | December 20, 2020 5:29 AM |
But James Corden in a catsuit they think people will pay to go see.
by Anonymous | reply 295 | December 20, 2020 5:30 AM |
Quotas just breed mediocrity.
by Anonymous | reply 296 | December 20, 2020 5:31 AM |
Speaking of The Prom- I have been reading one of those decade books about Broadway Musicals by Dan Dietz that's super expensive to buy (but I found it as an ebook in my library), this one for the 2000s, and I noticed how many shows Chad Beguelin and Matthew Sklar have written that have been nominated for Tonys for book and score. They've got to be verging on Danny Burstein territory for number of nominations with no wins. And they are terrible! If you were to look at them purely from an awards standpoint, you'd think they were Lerner and Lowe, but they're sub-Wildhorn. How have they scored so many nominations? And now they're frontrunners for an Academy Award simply because there are hardly any viable candidates. Talk about failing upwards.
by Anonymous | reply 297 | December 20, 2020 5:38 AM |
Today is Dec. 20, 2020. Exactly one year from now--Dec. 20, 2021--you could be attending the first preview of Hugh Jackman-Sutton Foster in "The Music Man" at the Winter Garden. And it just might happen.
by Anonymous | reply 298 | December 20, 2020 6:18 AM |
R298 and by then Sutton will be a contralto and they’ll have to lower the keys to all her songs.
by Anonymous | reply 299 | December 20, 2020 9:59 AM |
Thanks, r280. My feeling is that Van Dyke might never suppress that goofy side; it seemed to be his calling card after the TV series. And I worry that the movie might have interpolated a lot of the shtick. Can't see him as the slightly repressed bookworm the role asks for.
by Anonymous | reply 300 | December 20, 2020 12:38 PM |
With this new revival of West Side Story, why is Sondheim allowing them to cut songs and reinterpret them?
by Anonymous | reply 301 | December 20, 2020 12:50 PM |
Sondheim says he believes that theater thrives when it's open to interpretation and isn't frozen in amber, or something like that
by Anonymous | reply 302 | December 20, 2020 12:54 PM |
Around the time that a She Loves Me movie would have been filmed, was it known that Dick Van Dyke was an alcoholic? Was he a functioning alcoholic who could control it during a movie shoot or did his career suffer because of it?
by Anonymous | reply 303 | December 20, 2020 12:57 PM |
"Why are Broadway plays trying so hard to make a point? Is a simple story not good enough?"
Broadway is woke. Get with the program.
by Anonymous | reply 304 | December 20, 2020 12:59 PM |
[quote]Why are Broadway plays trying so hard to make a point?
You want pointless theater?
[quote]Is a simple story not good enough?
NO!
by Anonymous | reply 305 | December 20, 2020 1:04 PM |
[quote] Sondheim says he believes that theater thrives when it's open to interpretation and isn't frozen in amber, or something like that
I agree with him in principle. But oh, dear. Given the choice between Van Hove and amber, I’d rather the latter.
by Anonymous | reply 306 | December 20, 2020 1:40 PM |
R288, at the current ticket prices, no one would pay for a simple story.
The show has to be an event or at least "meaningful" since people are spending so much to go out.
by Anonymous | reply 307 | December 20, 2020 1:46 PM |
I'm sure that Sondheim truly believes this, but I think it's also true that he wasn't that crazy about his lyrics to begin with. He might feel differently about someone tinkering with some of his other scores/lyrics. I know Spielberg touched base with Sondheim while making the new WSS film; did Van Hove consult with him on the "reinterpreations"?
by Anonymous | reply 308 | December 20, 2020 2:10 PM |
For a Broadway production, what do you think R308?
by Anonymous | reply 309 | December 20, 2020 2:22 PM |
[quote] I'm sure that Sondheim truly believes this, but I think it's also true that he wasn't that crazy about his lyrics to begin with. He might feel differently about someone tinkering with some of his other scores/lyrics.
He didn’t seem to mind what they did to “Company” either.
by Anonymous | reply 310 | December 20, 2020 2:44 PM |
R292. The idea that Potts could have had an American accent if he had been born in the US while his parents were on VACATION has to be one of the stupidest explanations I’ve ever read. He hardly would have acquired language during that period and his dialect would have been shaped by the speech patterns he heard as a child,
by Anonymous | reply 311 | December 20, 2020 2:45 PM |
r292, do you think Maria (Natalie Wood) chose to wear that white virginal dress to the dance in the gym or was she helpless against Anita and Bernardo's insistence? She's forced to look like a child next to all the Shark and Jet girls. Is she not helpless in having to secretly meet with Tony afterwards?
Nothing wrong with that interpretation and, of course, that's how it was originally and most often played and costumed. And btw Irene Sharaff was a genius. But it's just refreshing to see Ivo's new interpretation of the character .
by Anonymous | reply 312 | December 20, 2020 2:55 PM |
Well, Van was certainly repressed, r300...
by Anonymous | reply 313 | December 20, 2020 3:17 PM |
If you have an answer, r309, let's hear it. Otherwise, kindly shut the fuck up.
Sondheim was enthusiastic about the changes to Company, but he kept the pen; nobody else jumped in and changed his lyrics.
by Anonymous | reply 314 | December 20, 2020 3:19 PM |
R&H did small love stories...set against big backdrops.
by Anonymous | reply 315 | December 20, 2020 3:25 PM |
Okay, R314. Broadway productions are under a first-class contract. The theaters are large (big royalties) and there is going to be a lot of media attention to any production that plays there. So any writer is more interested in a production there than most regionals because a Broadway production is going to influence other productions for decades to come. (And it can make them more money than other productions--so they do not want their work fucked up.)
For the producers, they have a large investment. They do not want the author to shut their production down. Furthermore, they do not want the author to let the production run but badmouth it publicly. Furthermore, they want the authors (especially one who is one of the most respected in American theater) to cooperate with their marketing company.
So do you think that a producer is not going to risk not consulting with the only surviving author? Or do you think that author is not going to be interested in consulting?
by Anonymous | reply 316 | December 20, 2020 3:39 PM |
The Dramatists Guild is the union that protects playwrights and librettists. It's very pro-active about ensuring its members' exact words. Nothing can be changed without their permission.
by Anonymous | reply 317 | December 20, 2020 3:45 PM |
And if permission is not given, the production can be shut down. Or at the very least need to close until the altered material is reinstated.
by Anonymous | reply 318 | December 20, 2020 3:54 PM |
[quote] Sondheim was enthusiastic about the changes to Company, but he kept the pen; nobody else jumped in and changed his lyrics.
Songs may have been cut, but what lyrics were changed in the recent WSS?
by Anonymous | reply 319 | December 20, 2020 3:55 PM |
The reason for elevator operators had more to do with the sliding gates. I live in a building with an ancient private elevator and when it breaks down, it's usually because some idiot has slammed the gates open or closed hard enough to knock them off their track, which completely incapacitates the whole thing.
by Anonymous | reply 320 | December 20, 2020 4:35 PM |
OMG.
Elevator operators = the new FOLLIES.
Damn you, 2020! Damn you straight to hell.
by Anonymous | reply 321 | December 20, 2020 5:02 PM |
R320, there is no gate, in the elevator MacLaine operates in The Apartment.
Look at the film or even the trailer. It is the same kind of elevator that runs today in most office buildings. No gate. Just doors.
by Anonymous | reply 322 | December 20, 2020 5:09 PM |
In a crowded building during the busiest times, an elevator operator can help get the maximum efficiency out of the elevator. Announce the arrival of the elevator. Pause it until people are on or off. Close the doors and leave when the car is filled or no one is left to enter it.
It's a colossal pain in the ass during busy times to have idiots holding the doors for people running down the hall, or to have elevators leave half filled because some moron was standing in front of the door texting. Automatic push button elevators work very well most of the time, but during the busiest times in the busiest buildings, they do not.
by Anonymous | reply 323 | December 20, 2020 5:29 PM |
There were elevators on Boris Aronson's set for COMPANY
by Anonymous | reply 324 | December 20, 2020 5:30 PM |
Small love stories...set against big backdrops.
by Anonymous | reply 325 | December 20, 2020 5:33 PM |
Compare and contrast:
Elevator Operators vs. Answering Services
by Anonymous | reply 326 | December 20, 2020 5:40 PM |
Too bad there wasn't an elevator operator here.
by Anonymous | reply 328 | December 20, 2020 7:23 PM |
SWEET CHARITY also has a famous number "I'm the Bravest Individual" set in a Manhattan elevator. And, of course, Shirl starred in (and ruined) the film version.
by Anonymous | reply 329 | December 20, 2020 7:27 PM |
I would say John McMartin ruined it. A less appealing actor there has never been.
by Anonymous | reply 330 | December 20, 2020 7:29 PM |
R252, Nixon, Rose.
by Anonymous | reply 331 | December 20, 2020 7:47 PM |
Now HERE'S an appealing actor doing that scene.
by Anonymous | reply 332 | December 20, 2020 7:58 PM |
Steve will willingly alter lyrics if you're a superstar. And beautiful.
by Anonymous | reply 333 | December 20, 2020 8:45 PM |
[quote]Not necessarily. Lots of times during the Production Code years, they bowdlerized the lyrics. 1962's Gypsy is one such example; in "You Gotta Get a Gimmick," they replaced "grind your behind till you're banned" with "grind till you're fined or you're banned," which loses the alliteration but not the internal "-ind" rhyme.
Exactly, R293. And partly for that reason, as I said, every or almost every musical released before the ratings system was in place would have received a G rating if the system had been in place then. Did you understand me the second time?
[quote]I'm sure that Sondheim truly believes this, but I think it's also true that he wasn't that crazy about his lyrics to begin with. He might feel differently about someone tinkering with some of his other scores/lyrics. I know Spielberg touched base with Sondheim while making the new WSS film; did Van Hove consult with him on the "reinterpreations"?
Yes, R308, and Sondheim has expressed particular displeasure over his own lyrics for "I Feel Pretty," so I'm sure that goes a long way towards explaining how and why that vitally important song was cut from the deplorable van Hove production.
[quote]Do you think Maria (Natalie Wood) chose to wear that white virginal dress to the dance in the gym or was she helpless against Anita and Bernardo's insistence? She's forced to look like a child next to all the Shark and Jet girls. Is she not helpless in having to secretly meet with Tony afterwards?
To your first point, R312: As that scene is written, Maria at first chafes against wearing the white dress because, she says, "white is for babies." But then, when she tries it on, she realizes how young and beautiful she looks in it, and she tells Anita how much she loves her for making it for her. (I don't remember what the Maria in the von Hove production wore for that scene, nor do I care.) As for your second point, I have no idea what you mean, as Maria or course had to secretly meet with Tony in the von Hove production as well.
by Anonymous | reply 334 | December 20, 2020 8:48 PM |
"Love Thy Neighbor" from THE PROM with Andrew Rannells.
Cute production, okay song.
by Anonymous | reply 336 | December 20, 2020 8:56 PM |
Millie manages to grow up with a proper British accent in a middle American small town so I don't see it unlikely that Potts grows up with a 20th century American accent in latter 19th century England.
by Anonymous | reply 337 | December 20, 2020 9:01 PM |
Any Richie Ridge stories? Had a bad experience with him on eBay.
by Anonymous | reply 338 | December 20, 2020 9:12 PM |
[quote]Steve will willingly alter lyrics if you're a superstar. And beautiful. —Barbra
And the cashier's check. Don't forget the cashier's check.
by Anonymous | reply 339 | December 20, 2020 9:45 PM |
My impression is that, in recent years, Sondheim hasn't objected to much less prevented any major productions of his shows, no matter how off-the-wall, apparently because he feels that keeping the works alive and before the public is the most important thing.
by Anonymous | reply 340 | December 20, 2020 10:06 PM |
I was working with Sondheim on a project when the whole John Doyle actors-as-orchestra thing started, and he was interested in flying out to (I think) Cincinnati to see his production of Company. He was skeptical, but curious, and said that if the end product was theatrical, and offered any insight at all into the story or characters then it was valid. But in any event it was worth trying out in front of an audience to see how it played. In my experience he is protective of his work, but always willing to see or try something new -even if it ultimately doesn't pan out.
by Anonymous | reply 341 | December 20, 2020 10:11 PM |
Cary Grant never even attempted an American accent, even though the majority of the roles he played were American.
by Anonymous | reply 342 | December 20, 2020 10:21 PM |
DL faves Danny Burstein and Carolee Carmelo in .... "Estella Scrooge!"
by Anonymous | reply 344 | December 20, 2020 10:38 PM |
Sondheim is smart, unlike r334, who sounds like a benighted refugee from All That Chat.
Re-interpretations of his work are, of course, what will keep the properties relevant and popular with new as well as open-minded old audiences. The Jerome Robbins version of WSS will always be there on film for all to see. Why not explore new ways to view these brilliant classic works?
Can you imagine if we lived in a world where Shakespeare or Moliere or Verdi or Wagner or Ibsen could insist that their work only be seen as it originally was?
by Anonymous | reply 345 | December 21, 2020 12:07 AM |
Wasn't Sondheim pretty outspoken about Porgy & Audra?
by Anonymous | reply 346 | December 21, 2020 12:09 AM |
He was outspoken about the revised orchestrations and other changes to the score. He considers it one of the all-time greatest achievements, and not in need of revision or "updating."
by Anonymous | reply 347 | December 21, 2020 12:11 AM |
The difference was Sondheim had no financial interest in Porgy succeeding.
by Anonymous | reply 348 | December 21, 2020 12:26 AM |
The difference is that DuBose Heyward and the Gershwins were not alive to approve or disapprove; Sondheim is alive and can control his works.
by Anonymous | reply 349 | December 21, 2020 12:29 AM |
Sondheim is a sub as long as there is consent?
by Anonymous | reply 350 | December 21, 2020 12:35 AM |
Sondheim never said that Porgy & Bess must never be tampered with in any way. It's not his way of thinking.
But he strongly objected to the orchestral changes and major cuts that were being made for that production. I believe he was also put off by titling it The Gershwins' Porgy & Bess (though that was the estate's doing).
by Anonymous | reply 351 | December 21, 2020 12:37 AM |
[quote]SWEET CHARITY also has a famous number "I'm the Bravest Individual" set in a Manhattan elevator. And, of course, Shirl starred in (and ruined) the film version.
"I'm the Bravest Individual" wasn't used in the movie version of "Sweet Charity." Shirl sings a different song in the stalled elevator ("It's a Nice Face").
by Anonymous | reply 352 | December 21, 2020 12:37 AM |
R351, but he has NEVER been critical of a production of his own work while it is running.
He does not want to hurt his own box office, but is fine trashing other"s.
by Anonymous | reply 353 | December 21, 2020 12:47 AM |
It's not the box office, R353 -It is that he has agreed to whatever is happening in the theatre, and whether he likes it or not, he shows respect for his collaborators.
by Anonymous | reply 354 | December 21, 2020 12:49 AM |
I guess that's why he chose never to collaborate with me.
by Anonymous | reply 355 | December 21, 2020 12:53 AM |
Sondheim also notably trashed Lady Gaga's tribute to THE SOUND OF MUSIC at an awards show (that year's Oscars? I forget) in a way that many found petty and rather mean-spirited.
by Anonymous | reply 356 | December 21, 2020 12:57 AM |
I feel sorry for him. If he dares to express an opinion about anything he is mean and petty... He's a gay man, for gawd's sake! Let him dish like the rest of us!
by Anonymous | reply 357 | December 21, 2020 12:59 AM |
I feel sorry for ha!
by Anonymous | reply 358 | December 21, 2020 1:01 AM |
If Sondheim wants money, it's probably not wise for him to cite a production as being crappy. It seems like every new production is his favorite and brings something new to the piece. I remember how he raved about Imelda Staunton's Everything's Coming Up Roses acting as if it were the first time a true actress ever played the role.
by Anonymous | reply 359 | December 21, 2020 1:07 AM |
I think that's unfair comment, r348, or at least inaccurate. Sondheim largely objected to the creative team's assertions that their changes to text, invented backstories and characterizations were exactly what Gershwin would have done had he lived. That, and failing to give credit to DuBose Heyward's contributions (which in Sondheim's view were everything). His gripe wouldn't have included Audra had she not mouthed off, claiming along with the others to know what long-dead Gershwin would want.
by Anonymous | reply 360 | December 21, 2020 1:22 AM |
R357, I'm sure the resources of Datalounge are at his feet if Sondheim ever wants to dish anonymously. (As long as he mentions Follies now and again, obviously.)
Supposing such a thing was allowable, anyone who was prepared to change Sondheim's lyrics for him would automatically not be the right person for the job.
by Anonymous | reply 361 | December 21, 2020 1:42 AM |
I think it's safe to say that at age 90 Sondheim doesn't need to worry about money. If he comments about a new production of his, yea or nay, it's not about a need for money.
by Anonymous | reply 362 | December 21, 2020 1:43 AM |
He may not need money but that doesn't mean he's not concerned with what's bad for business.
by Anonymous | reply 363 | December 21, 2020 1:44 AM |
Of course, contractually he may not be allowed to disparage a production of his work without some penalty.
by Anonymous | reply 364 | December 21, 2020 1:58 AM |
I am reminded of a TV interview with Myra Carter in which she explained what was wrong with the second act of Three Tall Women (which she was currently appearing in), and expressed frustrations that Edward would not listen when she explained the problems in the script to him.
That would have made me put in a non-disparagement clause in every contract.
by Anonymous | reply 365 | December 21, 2020 2:00 AM |
[quote]I am reminded of a TV interview with Myra Carter in which she explained what was wrong with the second act of Three Tall Women
r365, do you remember what she said about the play? I'm curious to know what she thought was wrong.
by Anonymous | reply 366 | December 21, 2020 2:12 AM |
"It should have been Two Tall Women and One Short Woman. That's comedy!"
by Anonymous | reply 367 | December 21, 2020 2:16 AM |
I don't remember what Carter said because I had not seen or read the play at that point. Also, it was her complete ungraciousness that made the biggest impression. This play put her on the map at an age when most actresses have little hope of even working.
She was a great actress but no one worked with her twice.
She was in an early episode of Fraiser with one scene and she drove them nuts too.
by Anonymous | reply 368 | December 21, 2020 2:25 AM |
What did Steve say about Gaga and her tribute to SOM?
by Anonymous | reply 369 | December 21, 2020 3:38 AM |
Myra thought r334 was Insufferable.
by Anonymous | reply 370 | December 21, 2020 4:07 AM |
[quote]Sondheim is smart, unlike [R334], who sounds like a benighted refugee from All That Chat. Re-interpretations of his work are, of course, what will keep the properties relevant and popular with new as well as open-minded old audiences.
Agreed to a certain extent, but some of us draw the line at radical reinterpretations that include major cuts and changes and "reinterpretations" that fly in the face of what the creators were going for in the original production.
[quote]The difference is that DuBose Heyward and the Gershwins were not alive to approve or disapprove; Sondheim is alive and can control his works.
Sondheim is only one of the four major creators of WEST SIDE STORY, the other three being Jerome Robbins, Leonard Bernstein, and Arthur Laurents, all of whom are dead. And even in the cases of he shows for which Sondheim wrote both music and lyrics, all of those shows of course had book writers, and most of those people are dead as well.
[quote]It seems like every new production is his favorite and brings something new to the piece. I remember how he raved about Imelda Staunton's Everything's Coming Up Roses acting as if it were the first time a true actress ever played the role.
Although I understand why Sondheim does this, I still think it's unfortunate. Maybe it would be better for all concerned if he refrained from expressing positive or negative opinions about new productions of his works and just let people decide from themselves, rather than being swayed by the words of God.
by Anonymous | reply 371 | December 21, 2020 4:17 AM |
Insufferable
by Anonymous | reply 372 | December 21, 2020 4:37 AM |
R311: It's not stupid because how else do you explain immigrant children who speak differently from their parents?
by Anonymous | reply 373 | December 21, 2020 6:05 AM |
So, should the revised “fuck” lyrics be used in Sweeney Todd?
Sondheim says:
PC: That production of SWEENEY TODD used the "like a f*cking machine he planned" line in the opening number, did it not?
SS: That was Declan Donnellan's suggestion for the Cottesloe production in London. When he was directing it, he said, "I'd love to use that," and, I said, "Sure, try it.”
PC: Would you like to see that lyric used in any future productions? It certainly gives the audience a jolt right from the outset.
SS: Eh, I think it made more sense in England - when you hear it with a more Cockney feeling. It's different - and harsher - in America; and, I think it would seem out-of-place. But, I think it sort of goes with the slang in cockney London.
by Anonymous | reply 374 | December 21, 2020 6:42 AM |
R373, immigrants. Not vacationers.
"My parents took me on a vacation to Germany when I was a toddler. I was so young I cannot even remember, but I have not been able to shake this German accent for 30 years."
Really?
by Anonymous | reply 375 | December 21, 2020 11:50 AM |
I saw Kinky Boots on YouTube over the weekend.
The Shows Must Go On channel is presenting plays free for 48 hours seeing donation for the Actors Fund. The next play on the schedule which is already premiering today is The Railway Children.
I enjoyed Kinky Boots. I know it's not popular here to enjoy anything except Sondheim and some classic musicals and the grand dames that starred in them. But I enjoyed this musical, some really sweet, beautiful moments, some really fun ones and some representation for our community.
by Anonymous | reply 376 | December 21, 2020 1:43 PM |
Kinky Boots was one of the worst things I've ever seen.
by Anonymous | reply 377 | December 21, 2020 1:46 PM |
R371, Steve should have corrected Imelda on how she pronounced “everything.” Americans pronounce it as “ev-ree-thing,” not “ev-ruh-thing.”
by Anonymous | reply 378 | December 21, 2020 2:10 PM |
"isn't frozen in amber"
He isn't speaking for me.
by Anonymous | reply 379 | December 21, 2020 2:34 PM |
My favorite musical is Sweeney Todd.
I enjoyed Kinky Boots, not saying it's a masterpiece, I don't think Broadway is going for masterpieces in musical theater. For a general audience it's good, I can enjoy things made for general audiences sometimes.
Sorry to hear you wasted your money, evening or afternoon r377.
by Anonymous | reply 380 | December 21, 2020 3:00 PM |
The reason Ivo and Rudin took the intermission out of WSS was they knew a healthy number of audience members would have left. The night I saw it, four women behind me walked out 1/2 through. The production was so stupidly WOKE it was embarrassing, and to pretend that Van Howe understands anything about America right now, or has any interesting insight, is silly. He's all conceptual head, and that's it. He clearly doesn't understand musicals -- which I understood about 10 minutes in -- and from this show, you can make the case he sort of hates them -- which I understood 12 minutes in. If it comes back, it will flop, because they were already radically discounting to get an audience and word of mouth was abysmal, except for the Seven Sisters crowd who were masturbating over it.
by Anonymous | reply 381 | December 21, 2020 3:04 PM |
I think that anyone who hates everything about the Van Hove WSS is indeed insufferable. It failed on many levels, but some of it was thrilling, IMO. Thank the gods people are addressing these classics with fresh eyes. And yes, I loved the recent OKLAHOMA! too.
by Anonymous | reply 382 | December 21, 2020 3:18 PM |
Julie Andrews' daughter Emma speaks with an American accent, unlike Julie. Have no idea how the two Vietnamese-adopted daughters sound, as they never seem to even have their pictures taken.
by Anonymous | reply 383 | December 21, 2020 3:30 PM |
Yes, r382, that production is (was?) so frustrating. I thought Powell was spectacular, fresh and vital, and Pimental quite good, too. The video overpowered those poor performers so much of the time, I'm surprised they didn't hurl rocks at those screens for pulling focus. And yet sometimes, like when they were in the drugstore, it was impactful. The choreo/movement was often chilling, once you got past the fact that it wasn't the original; I give it credit for attempting it and shaking off the Robbins "rules" for once. But again, fuck those videos.
by Anonymous | reply 384 | December 21, 2020 3:35 PM |
[quote]I enjoyed Kinky Boots. I know it's not popular here to enjoy anything except Sondheim and some classic musicals and the grand dames that starred in them. But I enjoyed this musical, some really sweet, beautiful moments, some really fun ones and some representation for our community.
It's a very enjoyable show overall, with a good score, but it would be even better if somebody other than Harvey Fierstein had written the book. He always feels he has to hammer home whatever points he's trying to make, and that really turns me off.
[quote]I think that anyone who hates everything about the Van Hove WSS is indeed insufferable. It failed on many levels, but some of it was thrilling, IMO. Thank the gods people are addressing these classics with fresh eyes. And yes, I loved the recent OKLAHOMA! too.
Methinks the word "insufferable" is beginning to be over-used in these theater threads. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "insufferable." For what it's worth, I will agree that there were a few effective moments in the van Hove WSS, but on balance, that production was a desecration. Same with OKLAHOMA!, and if you loved THAT production, you must really hate the show as written.
R384, the videos were far from the only huge problem with that WSS. You didn't mention that, in conjunction with the use of the videos, some of the scenes were played on small playing areas at the extreme rear of the huge Broadway Theatre stage, which to my mind is an idiotic thing to do in what's supposedly a live theater production. Van Hove had previously done something similar in NETWORK, but there it arguably made at least a little bit more sense due to the subject matter.
by Anonymous | reply 385 | December 21, 2020 3:51 PM |
I'm the biggest Sondheim fan in the world -And I enjoyed Kinky Boots enough to see it three times in the theatre, and have watched the filmed London version several times. There is nothing wrong with a show being purely entertaining! And Kinky Boots IS entertaining -and has a great message of acceptance and inclusion. The story is powerful (and based in fact) and songs like "I'm Not My Father's Son" show real depth and emotion. You can love Sweeney Todd and Mamma Mia both. Just go to the theatre with an open mind and prepared to go somewhere -a beautiful museum, a lovely memory, or an escapist fantasy. It doesn't matter.
by Anonymous | reply 386 | December 21, 2020 3:52 PM |
Yes, r368, "Slow Tango in South Seattle"... she played Connie Gavin's mother.
by Anonymous | reply 387 | December 21, 2020 4:35 PM |
Seems odd to consider the revival of WSS as woke given they cast Amar Ramasar
by Anonymous | reply 388 | December 21, 2020 5:12 PM |
[quote]Seems odd to consider the revival of WSS as woke given they cast Amar Ramasar
Good point, but it was "woke" in just about every other way. Painfully so.
by Anonymous | reply 389 | December 21, 2020 5:53 PM |
I pictured Myra Carter to be more angular and severe looking.
By the time I saw Three Tall Women, Carter had left the show and Marian Seldes had moved to her role. Joan Van Ark had taken over Seldes' previous role. All three women were marvelous and the show really made an impact in that small theater.
Carter won four acting awards for her performance, and had the show moved to Broadway that season, she likely would have won the Tony for Best Featured Actress (she would never have beaten Diana Rigg for Medea in lead, but would have easily trounced Jane Adams for An Inspector Calls).
The revival did not work for me, even in the Golden, because it's not a Broadway show. It's far too intimate an experience.
by Anonymous | reply 390 | December 21, 2020 5:55 PM |
Carter was a “local actress,” somewhere (Atlanta?). she’s lucky she had a NY success in anything.
by Anonymous | reply 391 | December 21, 2020 6:34 PM |
Totally agree about THREE TALL WOMEN in its Promenade Theatre off-Broadway premiere. On Broadway it was all gussied up with mirrors and Glenda Jackson and Laurie Metcalf in Nikes but it had little of the gut-punch of the original.
by Anonymous | reply 392 | December 21, 2020 7:54 PM |
Can Hugh Jackman Be the Savior Broadway Needs Him to Be?
by Anonymous | reply 393 | December 21, 2020 8:49 PM |
So, r385, I can't love the revised OKLAHOMA as well as the original? Thanks for letting me know. I thought I could, I thought my mind was allowed to embrace two opposing thoughts at once, until you came along to set me right.
by Anonymous | reply 394 | December 21, 2020 8:53 PM |
R383, Emma Walton has an American accent because she was raised in the US.
She did not just come here on a vacation.
by Anonymous | reply 395 | December 21, 2020 10:21 PM |
John Barrowman is bidialectical.
by Anonymous | reply 396 | December 21, 2020 10:30 PM |
Ditto Gillian Anderson.
by Anonymous | reply 397 | December 21, 2020 10:30 PM |
R386, La Cage did it better. Same message, stronger score, funnier lines. Less heavy handed and doesn't talk down to its audience.
by Anonymous | reply 398 | December 21, 2020 10:57 PM |
Everybody Say Yeah!
by Anonymous | reply 399 | December 21, 2020 11:02 PM |
[quote]So, [R385], I can't love the revised OKLAHOMA as well as the original? Thanks for letting me know. I thought I could, I thought my mind was allowed to embrace two opposing thoughts at once, until you came along to set me right.
Actually, I'm going to apologize for what I wrote and amend it. Although I personally can't understand how you could love both the original and revised versions of OKLAHOMA!, of course that's up to you. But since you yourself admit that the revisal offered an "opposing thought" to the original, how can you embrace that if it's so contrary to what Rodgers, Hammerstein, et al. created? If you wrote a show that was a very positive portrayal of liberals, for example, and then, 75 years from now, someone were to present a "new interpretation" of it that was highly negative toward liberals, how would you feel about that? And how would you feel about the fact that the show still had the original title, and still had you credited as the author?
As I've always said, if someone wants to radically change the text and/or the interpretation of a show so drastically that it scarcely resembles the original, they should probably just write their own new show, and if they insist on doing it the other way, the least they can do is change the title of the original to something like FORMERLY OKLAHOMA! or NOT YOUR GRANDFATHER'S OKLAHOMA!
by Anonymous | reply 400 | December 21, 2020 11:25 PM |
[Quote] how can you embrace that if it's so contrary to what Rodgers, Hammerstein, et al. created?
How can one embrace the ending of "My Fair Lady" when it's so contrary to what Shaw created?
by Anonymous | reply 401 | December 21, 2020 11:40 PM |
R398. Very true. But audiences were smarter and more sophisticated back then.
by Anonymous | reply 402 | December 21, 2020 11:43 PM |
[quote][R373], immigrants. Not vacationers. "My parents took me on a vacation to Germany when I was a toddler. I was so young I cannot even remember, but I have not been able to shake this German accent for 30 years." Really?
The likelihood that Caractacus Potts would have spent his entire childhood cooped up in a tiny English village while his father was traveling the world is not high. And they never mentioned his mother, presumably dead, or whether she was English or American.
by Anonymous | reply 403 | December 21, 2020 11:45 PM |
[quote][R398]. Very true. But audiences were smarter and more sophisticated back then.
The same year [italic]La Cage[/italic] opened on Broadway is the same year Mr. T starred in [italic]DC Cab[/italic].
by Anonymous | reply 404 | December 21, 2020 11:46 PM |
And Hearn wasn't allowed in drag on the Tonys.
by Anonymous | reply 405 | December 21, 2020 11:48 PM |
Bullshit, r405.
by Anonymous | reply 406 | December 22, 2020 12:04 AM |
How about the fact that Dick Van Dyke, who played Caractacus was actually older than Lionel Jeffries who played his father.
by Anonymous | reply 407 | December 22, 2020 12:37 AM |
I see nothing wrong with that.
by Anonymous | reply 408 | December 22, 2020 12:41 AM |
You wouldn't, Cary!
by Anonymous | reply 409 | December 22, 2020 12:46 AM |
Shaw wrote the screenplay of the film of Pygmalion. Higgins and Eliza did indeed get together at the end. The musical is based on the film. So Shaw gave it his maybe reluctant blessing. But Eliza most definitely does not slam the door like Nora as Sher would have it as Eliza as she has found her place as an equal unlike Nora who goes to seek it. And Sher stole that from Bergman's production of A Doll's House in any case.
by Anonymous | reply 411 | December 22, 2020 1:05 AM |
Anthony Sher?
by Anonymous | reply 412 | December 22, 2020 1:15 AM |
THEATRE audiences were more sophisticated back then.
by Anonymous | reply 413 | December 22, 2020 1:25 AM |
Michael Reidel, at the shuberts behest, has had his tongue up Hugh Jackman's butt for a decade. it's ridiculous. And can we be done with Riedel? He's a hack and always has been.
by Anonymous | reply 414 | December 22, 2020 1:27 AM |
What about Barbara Cook's tongue?
by Anonymous | reply 415 | December 22, 2020 1:33 AM |
Never had it, r415. How did she prepare it?
by Anonymous | reply 416 | December 22, 2020 1:34 AM |
R412 Bart Sher the director of the most recent MFL revival on Broadway.
by Anonymous | reply 417 | December 22, 2020 1:47 AM |
It's not great art but Kinky Boots is enormously fun albeit frothy entertainment. And, there's nothing wrong with that. Jersey Boys is similar in that the book is just lazy biopic shit but the "rise to fame" story is fun and the music is terrific (and much better than Kinky Boots, obviously). There are many musicals like this...if you like ABBA, Mamma Mia is a terrific show despite it's stupid storyline.
But, Kinky Boots is also annoying because they don't allow the gay character to demonstrate any kind of gayness other than wearing a dress...they couldn't give Lola a love interest?
by Anonymous | reply 418 | December 22, 2020 1:53 AM |
Many gay men don't have a love interest.
by Anonymous | reply 419 | December 22, 2020 2:05 AM |
And gay men who do drag...
by Anonymous | reply 420 | December 22, 2020 2:05 AM |
R420 and, gay men who do drag....what?
by Anonymous | reply 421 | December 22, 2020 2:07 AM |
Never understood why they set Kinky Boots in the UK when it was created by Americans for a Broadway audience. I know the original film was British but wouldn't the Broadway show have been better served in an industrial city like Pittsburgh? The British accents were PAINFUL and distracting.
by Anonymous | reply 422 | December 22, 2020 2:09 AM |
[Quote] and, gay men who do drag....what?
Historically have found it harder to date. RPDR has turned things around for many of the contestants.
by Anonymous | reply 423 | December 22, 2020 2:10 AM |
[Quote] Never understood why they set Kinky Boots in the UK when it was created by Americans for a Broadway audience.
And they set MAMMA MIA in Greece? Why?!
by Anonymous | reply 424 | December 22, 2020 2:10 AM |
R423 I know tons of drag queens.
Many of them "date" quite a lot and many of them have partners/husbands.
by Anonymous | reply 425 | December 22, 2020 2:13 AM |
Kinky Boots is 2/3 a good musical and 1/3 shit. The shit starts with the first act finale (Everybody Say Yeah, which is one of the most incredibly unimaginative combinations of lazy writing and lazy staging) and continues into the second act through the fight. But then the rest of it is pretty good.
However, neither the original fiancé nor Lola’s father deserved the redemption they got in the final number. Other than that, though, the finale rocks.
by Anonymous | reply 426 | December 22, 2020 2:20 AM |
R422, they already did that with The Full Monty, and the Brits were livid. Many said that was why the London production of that show closed prematurely.
by Anonymous | reply 427 | December 22, 2020 2:24 AM |
But didn't they make Reno French in London?
by Anonymous | reply 428 | December 22, 2020 2:29 AM |
"Full Monty" isn't such a big draw since when so many British actors, especially men, have been getting their kit off on the stage, that it's not such a novelty -- though still appreciated, mind you!
by Anonymous | reply 429 | December 22, 2020 2:32 AM |
Doesn't "Full Monty" tour as a (non-musical) play over there?
by Anonymous | reply 430 | December 22, 2020 2:32 AM |
That's another production and script, and I believe so.
by Anonymous | reply 431 | December 22, 2020 2:35 AM |
"they should probably just write their own new show"
But that requires talent, taste and brains, all in short commodity today.
by Anonymous | reply 432 | December 22, 2020 2:41 AM |
Sondheim’s an asshole.
by Anonymous | reply 433 | December 22, 2020 3:04 AM |
What's the 411 on Sondheim's husband/partner?
by Anonymous | reply 434 | December 22, 2020 3:08 AM |
He has a sore ass and welts on his back.
by Anonymous | reply 435 | December 22, 2020 3:13 AM |
[quote]How can one embrace the ending of "My Fair Lady" when it's so contrary to what Shaw created?
First of all, that's false equivalency. Secondly, you may or may not be aware that the new ending used for MY FAIR LADY was first used in the 1938 film version of PYGMALION, which Shaw was on record as loving despite what he may have written and said at other times about how Eliza would end up with Freddy. And lastly, although MY FAIR LADY is generally considered brilliant, there have been objections to the ending from day one. And in fact, as I'm sure you know (or I hope you know), that ending was radically changed for the most recent Broadway production.
by Anonymous | reply 436 | December 22, 2020 3:20 AM |
[quote]Shaw wrote the screenplay of the film of Pygmalion. Higgins and Eliza did indeed get together at the end. The musical is based on the film.
Absolutely true. All the major changes from Pygmalion to My Fair Lady came from Shaw's screenplay, although I read an interview where Lerner claimed them as his own. He probably assumed people had forgotten the film.
Except for the final scene. The film's final scene in Higgins' library (used in MFL) was written by the film's producer Gabriel Pascal was added on without Shaw's knowledge. Shaw was infuriated when he saw the film's ending. I imagine he was somewhat assuaged when he won the Oscar for best screenplay.
by Anonymous | reply 437 | December 22, 2020 3:36 AM |
Shaw, like Sondheim, could be bought?
by Anonymous | reply 438 | December 22, 2020 4:06 AM |
Ready for another song to hate from ALW's Cinderella?
It's bad.
by Anonymous | reply 439 | December 22, 2020 4:27 AM |
And there's this one that someone in the comments points out sounds like the song "How Does A Moment Last Forever" from Beauty and the Beast.
It does.
What is this man's problem with the song stealing?
by Anonymous | reply 440 | December 22, 2020 4:29 AM |
I always put it down to lack of talent.
by Anonymous | reply 441 | December 22, 2020 4:40 AM |
Kinky Boots is a giant piece of shite, pitched to the dumbest, most vulgar low-brow audience sensibilities. Basically, a show for retards. Jerry Mitchell is no great thinker, either.
by Anonymous | reply 442 | December 22, 2020 5:58 AM |
Re George Hearn and the Tonys, the decision to not have Hearn in drag when he sang "I Am What I Am" had nothing to do with the Theatre Wing or with the Tony committee. It was Hearn himself who nixed it. He didn't want to be seen in drag on a major awards show.,
by Anonymous | reply 443 | December 22, 2020 6:14 AM |
A propos what, r433?
r434, the Sondheim husband is, by all accounts, a nice guy. And they've been together for about 15 years, so the chances are it's a relationship of some substance.
by Anonymous | reply 444 | December 22, 2020 12:03 PM |
George Hearn was a terrible Zaza. Keene Curtis who did the tour and took over on broadway was delightful. Hearn and his first replacement Walter Charles were burly men wearing dresses. And Gene Barry mentioning his wife at least 10 times in his playbill bio was hilarious. Neither wanted to be identified as gay.
by Anonymous | reply 445 | December 22, 2020 1:53 PM |
Didn't Hearn's request also have something to do with the assumption that he would win the Tony and that he didn't relish the idea of accepting the award in a dress?
by Anonymous | reply 446 | December 22, 2020 1:59 PM |
Oy. I was dismayed to see that the ALW CINDERELLA lyrics are by David Zippel. Zippel wrote CITY OF ANGELS and other shows.
C'mon, David. You're more talented than these really generic lyrics I'm hearing. Not terrible, but not good and really... basic.
by Anonymous | reply 447 | December 22, 2020 3:09 PM |
That would have been like Kristin accepting her Tony in Sally garb, r466.
by Anonymous | reply 449 | December 22, 2020 3:34 PM |
Chenoweth performed as Sally, in full costume and wig, immediately before that category was presented. She went from Sally to an evening gown in two minutes.
by Anonymous | reply 450 | December 22, 2020 3:40 PM |
When did that whiny boy bandy singing voice become the norm for male theatre singers?
by Anonymous | reply 451 | December 22, 2020 3:46 PM |
That's pretty!
by Anonymous | reply 453 | December 22, 2020 4:02 PM |
Plus, r450, George would have also had to contend with the make-up.
by Anonymous | reply 454 | December 22, 2020 4:13 PM |
Yet when women don’t go through all that rigmarole, they’re the ones who get looked at as odd or weird.
by Anonymous | reply 455 | December 22, 2020 4:15 PM |
Huh?
by Anonymous | reply 456 | December 22, 2020 4:23 PM |
It was like when Cynthia Erivo did her color purple number as Celie with a faceful of glam.
by Anonymous | reply 457 | December 22, 2020 4:24 PM |
[quote]John Barrowman is bidialectical.
[quote]Ditto Gillian Anderson.
I call bullshit on Gillian's supposed bidialectalism. Her family was from the Midwest and relocated to the UK when she was a baby due to her father's job. They moved back to the US when she was around 10. Then she grew up and lived in the US (and Canada during the early seasons of X-FILES). She never used to switch to a British accent when she promoted X-FILES in the UK in the '90s. All of that started happening after she went back to the UK permanently once the show ended in 2002, when she was in her mid-thirties. In short, it's a put-on IMO.
At least Barrowman is actually Scottish who moved to the US with his family when he was 8 and grew up with that accent at home.
by Anonymous | reply 458 | December 22, 2020 4:58 PM |
Watching now. I'd forgotten this was on Claude Akins' resume....
by Anonymous | reply 459 | December 22, 2020 5:29 PM |
"I'll Still Be Here" - W.C. 1971 Bernadette Peters, Pre Broadway
by Anonymous | reply 460 | December 22, 2020 5:33 PM |
Re La Cage: The producers and the creatives all desperately wanted Robert Preston as George, both for his talent and his box office value. Jerry Herman wrote most of the songs with him in mind. But Preston turned it down and refused to change his mind, despite much begging. . He'd recently been a big hit as Toddy in the film of Victor/Victoria, and although he had no problem playing gay when many straight stars wouldn't, he didn't want to get stereotyped as the go to guy to play a big cuddly ol' mo.
He turned down the stage version of V/V, partly for the same reasons but also because he had the same attitude of Rosalind Russell when she was offered the musical version of Auntie Mame: been there, done that. According to Life magazine, Roz told the Mame producers "I don't eat yesterday's stew."
R459, Sunday I saw Claude Akins play a mastermind gangster who operates a stolen submarine on the original Adventures of Superman with George Reeves. Stupid as it sounds but fun!
by Anonymous | reply 461 | December 22, 2020 5:40 PM |
It’s a shame Rock Hudson never stepped in as Georges. I saw Van Johnson and he was embarrassingly bad.
by Anonymous | reply 462 | December 22, 2020 5:44 PM |
R462, Hudson could sing passably well. He lead the national tour of On the 20th Century.
by Anonymous | reply 463 | December 22, 2020 5:52 PM |
Did I miss the original reference to Claude Akins? Did Kristin thank him in her Tony acceptance speech?
by Anonymous | reply 465 | December 22, 2020 5:58 PM |
Who played Bo in that musical of Bus Stop? And why didn't he get top billing, too?
by Anonymous | reply 466 | December 22, 2020 5:59 PM |
Recently streamed weird Rosemary Clooney musical "Red Garters" on Amazon Prime. Strange sets, I guess deliberately meant to be artificial. Cass Daley in red-face as a native American. Even the reliably good Jack Carson not shown to best advantage. Clooney sounds fine in her songs. Reason I'm mentioning it is that Gene Barry, playing a Latin character, is very hot and handsome with his hairy chest on display whenever he is on screen. He's quite good, too, though I don't think he sang in it. It's kind of a bizarre musical, and I think it flopped.
by Anonymous | reply 467 | December 22, 2020 6:02 PM |
I'd have gone to see "Cherry" if Carol Wayne was starring in it!
by Anonymous | reply 468 | December 22, 2020 6:04 PM |
By then Carol Wayne's cherry was long gone.
by Anonymous | reply 469 | December 22, 2020 6:07 PM |
Yes, the visuals of Red Garters are deliberately highly stylized and it flopped. But parts of it, esp. Clooney and the rest of the cast, are great and it really has its moments. It's cult film worth checking out if you the chance.
Hudson would have been a great choice for Georges and would have done it well. But it was too late. When he appeared on Dynasty in the mid 80s as Linda Evans' lover, his physical appearance was so wasted people were shocked to the point that the producers ended the story arc and wrote him out early.
by Anonymous | reply 470 | December 22, 2020 6:13 PM |
[quote]What is this man's problem with the song stealing?
ALW definitely has a problem with that in the sense that he keeps doing it, and it's very embarrassing, because people keep calling him out for it. But he DOESN'T have a problem in the sense that the one time someone sued him for doing this, the lawsuit was unsuccessful, and I'm pretty sure no one else has tried to sue him for plagiarism since then.
I'm not entirely sure whether ALW borrows (or steals) melodies consciously or unconsciously, but if consciously, I think he's smart enough to only steal/borrow a measure or so in each case, and that's not enough that anyone could win a case against him in court. The most blatant recent example I know of is that beautiful little melody from "Someone Else's Story" in CHESS, which ALW borrowed or stole for SCHOOL OF ROCK. It's also one of the more shameless examples, because I think it's fair to assume that many people among the audience for SCHOOL OF ROCK would also know the score of CHESS pretty well.
by Anonymous | reply 473 | December 22, 2020 7:08 PM |
How about when he stole the entire song "English Girls" from Song and Dance and used it as "Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts" in Whistle Down the Wind"??? Or when "Literary Men" from Jeeves magically became "When You Want To Fall In Love" in Song and Dance -and then later became "Unexpected Song" in the same show?
The man has cojones!
by Anonymous | reply 474 | December 22, 2020 7:14 PM |
Well, R474, ALW's recycling of his own melodies is another matter. Sometimes I think that, when you add up all the melodies and songs of his own that he has recycled PLUS those who has borrowed (or stolen) from others, he has actually written very few original melodies. (See the "Honest Obituary" video that someone posted above.)
by Anonymous | reply 476 | December 22, 2020 7:24 PM |
Bloody brilliant video, R475! Reminds me of an act I used to do at the piano where I'd play and sing the recycled bits from ALW songs!
by Anonymous | reply 477 | December 22, 2020 7:37 PM |
[quote] ALW definitely has a problem with that in the sense that he keeps doing it, and it's very embarrassing, because people keep calling him out for it. But he DOESN'T have a problem in the sense that the one time someone sued him for doing this, the lawsuit was unsuccessful, and I'm pretty sure no one else has tried to sue him for plagiarism since then.
R473, what suit was that and who was the plaintiff and what works were in question? I was under the impression he has been sued multiple times and he always settles out of court rather than being found guilty. I may easily be wrong about the multiple times but he was famously sued by the Puccini estate for blatantly lifting passages from The Girl of the Golden West which were still still under copyright and using them in Phantom. In their court filings the estate said they had overlooked many prior instances of plagiarism but in this case it was such egregious copying that it could no longer be ignored. He settled out of court rather than being found guilty. The case is so well known it's talked about in his WP page.
by Anonymous | reply 478 | December 22, 2020 7:52 PM |
[quote]Never understood why they set Kinky Boots in the UK when it was created by Americans for a Broadway audience.
Andrew Lloyd Webber reset Whistle Down The Wind. The movie was set in the UK. I think he reset it in the American South because he always liked the Everly Brothers and wanted to work with that sound. Plus American audiences understood how religious the South was.
by Anonymous | reply 480 | December 22, 2020 8:34 PM |
Was Paula Wayne the poor man's Paula Stewart?
by Anonymous | reply 481 | December 22, 2020 8:37 PM |
Those two Cinderella songs are bland and predictable, but most of "School of Rock" was also, so he always gets away with it.
by Anonymous | reply 482 | December 22, 2020 9:02 PM |
[quote] Andrew Lloyd Webber reset Whistle Down The Wind. The movie was set in the UK. I think he reset it in the American South because he always liked the Everly Brothers and wanted to work with that sound. Plus American audiences understood how religious the South was.
I believe the actual history goes something like this: Another team of writers had previously obtained the rights to the "Whistle Down the Wind" novel/film and written their own musical "Whistle Down the Wind," set, like the source material, in the UK. Their version was, I believe, presented at a musical theater festival.
When Lloyd Webber and/or Jim Steinman became interested in the material, they made a deal with the writers of that other "Whistle Down the Wind" musical, and I believe that deal involved setting the Lloyd Webber/Steinman version in the U.S. South so that the other version could still be performed. And I believe that other version has been performed subsequently.
As we now know, the Lloyd Webber-Steinman-Harold Prince version began performances in Washington, D.C. in late 1996 and had been scheduled to open at Broadway's Martin Beck Theatre in April '97. Hard to believe that an Andrew Lloyd Webber-Harold Prince show could close out of town, but that's what happened. Lloyd Webber and Steinman resuscitated the show in a wholly different London production that opened in 1998 and closed in 2001.
by Anonymous | reply 483 | December 22, 2020 9:03 PM |
It was a very stupid decision not to set "The Fully Monty" in Sheffield and do the show in the UK first. The show probably would have run there. They could have retooled for the US later.
by Anonymous | reply 484 | December 22, 2020 9:16 PM |
There's such a long history of setting adaptations of earlier works to different times and places it's barely worth talking about. R&H reset Molnar's Liliom from Eastern Europe to New England after seriously considering Louisiana (Carousel). My Darlin' Aida reset Verdi's Aida from Ancient Egypt to the South of The Civil War. Etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. Think of Shakespeare productions and adaptions. Forbidden Planet reset The Tempest from a desert island to Mars!
by Anonymous | reply 485 | December 22, 2020 9:18 PM |
Mars, R485? Really? Write us back after you've had your nap...
And My Darlin' Aida was a legendary flop -Hardly something to emulate.
by Anonymous | reply 486 | December 22, 2020 9:22 PM |
OK, Altair IV. And what does the fact that MDA was a flop have to do with the subject of switching time and locales?
by Anonymous | reply 487 | December 22, 2020 9:26 PM |
The entire creative team of THE FULL MONTY was American, creating a show on Bway for Bway audiences.
I think their big mistake was overestimating the popularity of (and affection for) the original (English) movie among American audiences, then creating a rather timid display of male bodies. Much like the film that inspired KINKY BOOTS, it was entertaining in parts but pretty slim stuff. MONTY made good money in America for a little film, but it was hardly a blockbuster.
I think Bway producers are often as bad as Hollywood producers in thinking British properties are just "classier" and more intelligent by nature.
by Anonymous | reply 488 | December 22, 2020 9:28 PM |
R486 must think Carousel was a flop because it switched the time and place from 20th century Hungary to 19th century New England.
by Anonymous | reply 489 | December 22, 2020 9:32 PM |
R486 must think Carousel was a flop because it switched the time and place from 20th century Hungary to 19th century New England.
by Anonymous | reply 490 | December 22, 2020 9:32 PM |
You couldn't get a ticket to The Full Monty on Broadway for love nor money, and it was favored to sweep the Tony Awards until the juggernaut of The Producers arrived.
by Anonymous | reply 491 | December 22, 2020 9:33 PM |
MONTY lasted about 2 years. Anyone know if it ever turned a profit?
by Anonymous | reply 492 | December 22, 2020 9:35 PM |
r458 How about Christian Bale?
by Anonymous | reply 493 | December 22, 2020 9:37 PM |
Full Monty turned a profit during its first year on Broadway, according to Playbill.
by Anonymous | reply 494 | December 22, 2020 9:43 PM |
When I was in the upper reaches of the Winter Garden, and that ALW "original" song was being performed, I swear I remember yelling out, "That's from CHESS"!
by Anonymous | reply 495 | December 22, 2020 9:56 PM |
The video of the 1999 "Kiss Me, Kate" with Brent Barrett and Rachel York, is new on Hoopla (free streaming service) this month.
by Anonymous | reply 496 | December 22, 2020 10:43 PM |
R478, thanks. Over the years, I have read and heard conflicting information as to whether or not ALW was ever actually sued by the Puccini estate, so it's interesting that the info is now included on his Wikipedia page. The lawsuit I was referring to, which actually came to court in NYC, happened years ago when a composer of religious music named Ray Repp sued ALW for appropriating parts of one of his songs for use in the title song of THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. Lo and behold, I found Repp's song on YouTube, so you can make your own judgment. My personal opinion is that, although the ALW version is REALLY close to this, the similarity isn't as blatant as in some other alleged borrowings or thefts by ALW.
by Anonymous | reply 497 | December 22, 2020 10:59 PM |
I'm suddenly seeing all the linked photos and videos in my feed encased in a charming green outline like an old TV set! Is this true for anyone else here?
by Anonymous | reply 498 | December 22, 2020 11:39 PM |
Yes, r498. I think it's a Christmas gift from Muriel...or something. Here's the thread...
by Anonymous | reply 499 | December 22, 2020 11:58 PM |
Just watched the Kaye Ballard documentary on Prime. It's a lot of fun and Kaye is quite charming, honest and funny. She really worked with or became close to just about everybody in 20th century show biz and all of the clips provide wonderful nostalgia, at least for those of us over 50.
She was clearly one of the most generous and giving people in the business and a great fan of talent. Again and again, there was a property that she introduced, a song or an idea for a show, that became far more famous through another performer and she always praises them. But sadly, even though dozens of former colleagues from Woody Allen to Hal Prince to Michael Feinstein to Joy Behar rave about her singular talents, the many clips never quite reveal much more than a loud brassy singing voice and hammy sense of comedy schtick. I want to like her so much more...
by Anonymous | reply 500 | December 23, 2020 2:11 AM |
Look, Ma, it’s my beef curtains!
by Anonymous | reply 501 | December 23, 2020 2:38 AM |
[quote]She was clearly one of the most generous and giving people in the business and a great fan of talent. Again and again, there was a property that she introduced, a song or an idea for a show, that became far more famous through another performer and she always praises them.
But, on many other occasions, she was very vocal in her extreme bitterness about lost opportunities, not becoming a bigger star, etc.
[quote]But sadly, even though dozens of former colleagues from Woody Allen to Hal Prince to Michael Feinstein to Joy Behar rave about her singular talents, the many clips never quite reveal much more than a loud brassy singing voice and hammy sense of comedy schtick. I want to like her so much more...
Her talent was made for the stage. She could also be good in film and TV when carefully cast, as in CINDERELLA, THE MOTHERS IN LAW, and a few other things.
by Anonymous | reply 503 | December 23, 2020 3:53 AM |
[quote] He turned down the stage version of V/V, partly for the same reasons but also because he had the same attitude of Rosalind Russell when she was offered the musical version of Auntie Mame: been there, done that. According to Life magazine, Roz told the Mame producers "I don't eat yesterday's stew."
Robert Preston died 8 years before V/V hit the stage and was ill with lung cancer about a year prior to that.
by Anonymous | reply 504 | December 23, 2020 5:53 AM |
[quote] He turned down the stage version of V/V, partly for the same reasons but also because he had the same attitude of Rosalind Russell when she was offered the musical version of Auntie Mame: been there, done that. According to Life magazine, Roz told the Mame producers "I don't eat yesterday's stew."
There are many oft-repeated Broadway diva "quotes" that no one can actually prove were ever said. Who can say if the great Merman actually said any of those witty remarks constantly attributed to her: "Call me Miss Birdseye.....," "You can't buck a nun," "Mary Martin's okay if you like talent," "Dyke, ya know."
In the case of the above oft-repeated Roz Russell quote, I do have a bit of proof. A close friend was close friend's with one of the three authors of the musical "Mame." When that author was asked about offering the musical to Roz, he said, "No, of course we didn't. She would have said yes!"
by Anonymous | reply 505 | December 23, 2020 6:24 AM |
A stage version of V/V was in development for about a decade or more before it actually happened so it’s possible Preston did turn it down. Lesley Ann Warren was also approached about doing the stage version.
by Anonymous | reply 506 | December 23, 2020 10:42 AM |
Very curious that there are so many talking heads in the Kaye Ballard doc who rave about her talents, but who never seemed to have hired her. Did Woody Allen or Hal Prince ever cast her in anything? Seems like she might have made an interesting Mrs. Lovett, for example.
Do you think there was any discrimination because she was a lesbian?
by Anonymous | reply 507 | December 23, 2020 1:13 PM |
When Kaye died Lucie Arnaz posted a very loving but blunt tribute on Instagram. She praised Kaye but also pointed out that she wasn’t always easy to love. Anytime I’ve ever seen Kaye interviewed she always come off like a pain in the ass.
by Anonymous | reply 508 | December 23, 2020 1:29 PM |
Oh Kaye!
by Anonymous | reply 509 | December 23, 2020 1:36 PM |
I wondered about that as well, r507, and yet thought it was interesting that Woody and Hal participated in the documentary. Those were two men who could have provided endless employment opportunities for Kaye.
I saw Kaye live on stage a couple of times. In the show Molly in Boston tryouts where it was as awful as she said it was (and she really was miscast) and then in the Paper Mill Follies, where she was OK if it rather unforgettable singing Broadway Baby.
by Anonymous | reply 510 | December 23, 2020 2:28 PM |
I remember reading Kaye's autobiography and then reading Rose Marie's right after. Kaye just came off as bitter about everything (though in the documentary she seems to laugh it all off.) She did not come off well in the book and seemed very petty. On the other hand, Rose Marie comes off as being so appreciative of everything she got in life. (even her one lapse, her jealousy of Mary Tyler Moore for robbing her of what she thought was her leading lady role on the DVD Show, she's very honest about and manages to come to terms with it after the first few seasons.
by Anonymous | reply 511 | December 23, 2020 2:56 PM |
Kaye really should have done "Who's that Woman?" at Paper Mill and Ann Miller should have done "Broadway Baby." (though I understand why Ann wouldn't have done such a minor role.).
by Anonymous | reply 512 | December 23, 2020 2:59 PM |
[quote]I remember reading Kaye's autobiography and then reading Rose Marie's right after.
Now Rose Marie could have sung a terrific "Broadway Baby".
by Anonymous | reply 513 | December 23, 2020 2:59 PM |
Rose Marie thought she should have been the lead in the dvd series? Really?
by Anonymous | reply 514 | December 23, 2020 3:45 PM |
Anyone see Kaye's Mama Rose? Seems that some thought it "historic."
by Anonymous | reply 515 | December 23, 2020 3:47 PM |
The original focus was supposed to be on Dick, Buddy and Sally, r514. But that changed when it was obvious how wonderful MTM was and it shifted to Rob and Laura's home life.
by Anonymous | reply 516 | December 23, 2020 3:53 PM |
I had no idea the composer of Lazy Afternoon wrote The Big Country. Interesting.
by Anonymous | reply 517 | December 23, 2020 4:13 PM |
Sunset Boulevard In Concert At Home will be streaming throught January 9th.
I’ll be wanking off to Danny Mac’s hot feets in the title song.
by Anonymous | reply 519 | December 23, 2020 6:22 PM |
Broadway's already-dimmed lights are out today with the tragic loss of Rebecca Luker.
by Anonymous | reply 520 | December 23, 2020 6:37 PM |
[quote]A stage version of V/V was in development for about a decade or more before it actually happened so it’s possible Preston did turn it down.
Yes, exactly. I clearly remember when preliminary plans for the show were first discussed, and Preston was actually quoted in the press as saying that he thought it was a bad idea.
[quote]In the case of the above oft-repeated Roz Russell quote, I do have a bit of proof. A close friend was close friend's with one of the three authors of the musical "Mame." When that author was asked about offering the musical to Roz, he said, "No, of course we didn't. She would have said yes!"
Seems from all I have read about her that, for all her talents, Russell was not very bright, had terrible taste, was unaware of her own limitations as an actress and singer, and could be extremely difficult, spiteful, and bitter about all sorts of things. I strongly suspect that, if she did make that "yesterday's stew" remark about MAME, it was sour grapes because she was never approached to star in the musical and/or finally realized she could never have handled it but didn't want to come out and admit that. (In fairness, I think her health was already deteriorating badly by the time the musical came around, so that may well have been another factor.)
[quote]I saw Kaye live on stage a couple of times. In the show Molly in Boston tryouts where it was as awful as she said it was (and she really was miscast) and then in the Paper Mill Follies, where she was OK if it rather unforgettable singing Broadway Baby.
I assume you meant to type "forgettable." I agree that Kaye was somewhat under-powered in that show. FWIW, I had heard at the time that, for some reason, she had been asked to tone down her usual comic business for the number, which I think was a mistake.
by Anonymous | reply 521 | December 23, 2020 6:43 PM |
[quote]Broadway's already-dimmed lights are out today with the tragic loss of Rebecca Luker.
One of the saddest tragedies of this annus horribilis. May she rest in peace.
by Anonymous | reply 522 | December 23, 2020 6:44 PM |
"Seems from all I have read about her that, for all her talents, Russell was not very bright, had terrible taste, was unaware of her own limitations as an actress and singer, and could be extremely difficult, spiteful, and bitter about all sorts of things."
*
Seems you haven't read much at all about her, r521.
by Anonymous | reply 523 | December 23, 2020 6:50 PM |
r521 insufferable redux
by Anonymous | reply 524 | December 23, 2020 6:51 PM |
For all her refinement and glamour, Rosalind Russell was the rare movie star who really knew how to live. A retired producer recalls the highlights of their long friendship, from the triumph of Auntie Mame to the Vegas blowout Sinatra threw her, to the Christmas when the tree fell down.
by Anonymous | reply 525 | December 23, 2020 7:00 PM |
There is at least one clip of Kaye as Momma Rose in the documentary (not in a production, but doing a number on a variety hour, I believe) and, once again, I watch it and think....meh.
by Anonymous | reply 526 | December 23, 2020 7:11 PM |
Right back at you, R523. There is plenty of documentation of Roz's selfishness, foolishness, meanness, and delusion.
Two examples: When it came time to adapt the novel AUNTIE MAME as a stage play, Roz stupidly pressured the writers Lawrence and Lee to change the time period of the story to the then-present (the 1950s) in order to make the story seem "fresh and new," even though a major plot point of the original is that Mame is a fabulously rich woman who loses all of her money i the stock market crash of 1929. (Fortunately, Lawrence and Lee ignored her.) And, in her memoir, Russell completely denies that any of her singing in the GYPSY movie was dubbed, insisting that it was "all Roz, all the time."
I'm not saying she wasn't talented and wasn't a great performer when she stayed in her wheelhouse, I'm saying she seems to have been very selfish and mean and totally self involved, as that nasty "yesterday's stew" comment about MAME further attests. Oh, and P.S., apparently the reason why Edith "Edie" Adams did not appear in the TV version of WONDERFUL TOWN is that, in the time between the stage show and the TV production, she had become quite a big star, and Russell didn't want her stealing her thunder (as she looked at it). Really classy.
I could go on and on, but hopefully you get my point, and if you don't, maybe others do.
by Anonymous | reply 527 | December 23, 2020 7:20 PM |
If health wasn't a factor, I can't imagine any producers not wanting Roz for the musical—and I doubt if she had the kind of poisonous reputation insisted upon by r527. Difficult or not, she would have been a HUGE box office lure, unlike Lansbury who was not a star of Roz's stature.
by Anonymous | reply 528 | December 23, 2020 7:24 PM |
Wonderful as Roz was in the play and the film, she wouldn't have been able to sing that score in any way that would do it justice. The show might have been a one-season success, but not the megabit that Angela Lansbury headlined. Contrary to the posts above, I've always heard that she was well-liked by her various costars and directors through the years. As for Gypsy, she was led to believe that her vocals would be used, and Lisa Kirk did such a fine job subbing and mixing in with her that I can forgive her later insistence.
by Anonymous | reply 529 | December 23, 2020 7:31 PM |
r525, thanks for posting the VF article on Roz. What a glorious woman!
I don't really think any of the negative anecdotes posted here are really so awful even if they're true. If she had to make up a little lie about turning down Mame, was that really so offensive? She was a huge and unique star who understood her value. We'll never see her likes again.
by Anonymous | reply 530 | December 23, 2020 7:32 PM |
[quote]If health wasn't a factor, I can't imagine any producers not wanting Roz for the musical—and I doubt if she had the kind of poisonous reputation insisted upon by [R527]. Difficult or not, she would have been a HUGE box office lure, unlike Lansbury who was not a star of Roz's stature.
It's that kind of thinking that resulted in Lucille Ball playing MAME in the movie. What you say is true, but especially by 1966, Roz could NOT have handled singing a leading role in a Broadway musical, even if she had been in perfect health. Not unless Jerry Herman would have been willing to write a score consisting entirely of songs that could be talk-sung by the leading lady, which would have been a disastrous decision for Mame Dennis, a very different type of role than Ruth Sherwood in WONDERFUL TOWN.
by Anonymous | reply 531 | December 23, 2020 7:35 PM |
[quote]I remember reading Kaye's autobiography and then reading Rose Marie's right after. Kaye just came off as bitter about everything (though in the documentary she seems to laugh it all off.) She did not come off well in the book and seemed very petty. On the other hand, Rose Marie comes off as being so appreciative of everything she got in life. (even her one lapse, her jealousy of Mary Tyler Moore for robbing her of what she thought was her leading lady role on the DVD Show, she's very honest about and manages to come to terms with it after the first few seasons.
Both ladies were regulars on "The Doris Day Show." How did their experiences match up (or not) in their books?
by Anonymous | reply 532 | December 23, 2020 7:40 PM |
Sure, everyone would have turned out to see Roz in "Mame," but they had already seen her in the play and/or the movie.
And even if Roz had been fully capable of singing the score of "Mame," and notwithstanding what a box-office draw she was, it ultimately proved better for the musical to present a brand-new musical star whose performance turned out to be even better than anyone could have imagined.
No one, not even the audiences at the nine performances of "Whistle," had seen Angela carry a big musical, so new Broadway musical comedy diva Angela in "Mame" was a thrilling event.
by Anonymous | reply 533 | December 23, 2020 7:58 PM |
[quote]I don't really think any of the negative anecdotes posted here are really so awful even if they're true. If she had to make up a little lie about turning down Mame, was that really so offensive?
Yes, it was offensive because of her phrasing. "Yesterday's stew" is a very dismissive and condescending reference to the musical of MAME, which was about to be created in large party by Lawrence and Lee, with whom Roz had worked on the straight play version. If Roz were a better person, she could have made the same basic point by saying something like, "I'm thrilled to have originated the great role of Mame Dennis on the stage, but now it's time for someone else to play her in the musical, and I send my best wishes to everyone involved in the project." But I don't think she had that in her.
R533, exactly. We'll never know for sure, of course, but If the producers and creators of the musical MAME had been foolish enough to cast Roz, and if she had agreed to do it, it might well have turned out to be almost as big an embarrassment and as huge a blot on her career as the film role turned out to be for Lucy. So, whatever the reason(s) why she didn't play the role in the musical, I REALLY think it was all for the best for everyone concerned, including the audiences.
by Anonymous | reply 534 | December 23, 2020 8:25 PM |
I'm a big Roz fan myself but I remember reading that she had two types of parties, one for all the Broadway and Hollywood people and another for the 'dogs' as in her fans.
Kind of like Streisand complaining that the people hanging out at the Winter Garden stage door after performances of Funny Girl were ugly. Why don't good looking people hang out for autographs? Because Babs they have dates.
by Anonymous | reply 535 | December 23, 2020 8:33 PM |
r535, if you would read the Vanity Fair article posted at r525, you'd see the "dogs" were not Roz's fans but referred to her drearier and more lackluster chums. She had special parties grouping them together because they'd help bring each other out, rather than bring down the sparkly guests at her other parties. It's a clever idea socially if you can afford all those parties.
by Anonymous | reply 536 | December 23, 2020 9:26 PM |
Re Lawrence and Lee and Auntie Mame/Mame, when Roz and the producers settled on a date that she would leave the Broadway show and head straight to Hollywood to film it, she assumed they would be closing the show. The producers and Lawrence and Lee said no, they intended to replace her with an as-yet unchosen star. Roz insisted that they close it, that she really, really wanted to be the only Broadway Auntie Mame. She felt it would help the movie if she had that unique cachet. Lawrence and Lee were furious, not only at the loss of a steady royalty check for them, but at the fact Roz wanted to close the show and was blithely unconcerned about all the other actors and crew she would be putting out of work. Unhappy, Roz got her revenge by insisting that she would drop out of the movie if Comden and Green weren't giving the screenplay assignment that was supposed to be Lawrence and Lee.
There was no love lost there, so I'm not surprised one of them trashed her in the "she would have accepted" comment.
by Anonymous | reply 537 | December 23, 2020 10:54 PM |
ThTs some good stuff r537
by Anonymous | reply 538 | December 23, 2020 10:58 PM |
*That’s
by Anonymous | reply 539 | December 23, 2020 10:59 PM |
Isn't the Comden and Green script the Lawrence and Lee script with just a very few modifications?
She was right about Cher doing the movie. Even though Cher might have been wrong for Mame she still would have been a lot of fun. Even a terribly miscast Streisand would have been immensely enjoyable. Of course you would have had to change the whole Upsons' anti semitic angle but she would have sung the hell out of the score.
by Anonymous | reply 540 | December 23, 2020 11:14 PM |
[quote]Re Lawrence and Lee and Auntie Mame/Mame, when Roz and the producers settled on a date that she would leave the Broadway show and head straight to Hollywood to film it, she assumed they would be closing the show. The producers and Lawrence and Lee said no, they intended to replace her with an as-yet unchosen star. Roz insisted that they close it, that she really, really wanted to be the only Broadway Auntie Mame. She felt it would help the movie if she had that unique cachet. Lawrence and Lee were furious, not only at the loss of a steady royalty check for them, but at the fact Roz wanted to close the show and was blithely unconcerned about all the other actors and crew she would be putting out of work. Unhappy, Roz got her revenge by insisting that she would drop out of the movie if Comden and Green weren't giving the screenplay assignment that was supposed to be Lawrence and Lee.
Yes, all of that info is included in Richard Tyler Jordan's book BUT DARLING, I'M YOUR AUNTIE MAME! As is the info about Roz's stupid insistence -- which, thankfully, no one paid attention to -- that the action of the original play should have been updated to the 1950s. Like I said, the fact that she was talented doesn't mean she wasn't also a stupid, bitchy, selfish human being.
by Anonymous | reply 541 | December 23, 2020 11:14 PM |
Interesting list here in the link. I found it while searching for Keene Curtis after someone mentioned him upthread. I had a brief moment with Keene back in the 80s and was interested to find out what the Google had to say about him.
by Anonymous | reply 542 | December 23, 2020 11:16 PM |
[quote]Even a terribly miscast Streisand would have been immensely enjoyable. Of course you would have had to change the whole Upsons' anti semitic angle but she would have sung the hell out of the score.
That's like saying, "Barbara Cook, who played Fanny Brice on stage, would have been great in the movie of FUNNY GIRL. Of course, they would have had to change Fannie's ethnicity, but she would have sung the hell out of the score."
by Anonymous | reply 543 | December 23, 2020 11:17 PM |
We needed a Fanny that...trilled!
by Anonymous | reply 544 | December 23, 2020 11:26 PM |
[quote]Isn't the Comden and Green script the Lawrence and Lee script with just a very few modifications?
Yes, because they were smart enough to realize that they should pretty much leave the script alone, because it was pretty much perfect as is. They did add a few good lines, like the one about Vera and Pittsburgh :-)
by Anonymous | reply 545 | December 23, 2020 11:29 PM |
r541, I'm confused about this supposed notion of Russell's of moving the action of Auntie Mame up to the 1950s. Clearly, about 20 years go by so did she think it would begin in the 1950s or end in the 1950s (which it seems to do in the film based on the decor and costumes)?
Also, just curious: in the play and film the Stock Market Crash and Depression, of course, are mentioned but is WWII?
by Anonymous | reply 546 | December 24, 2020 12:41 AM |
Since that makes absolutely no sense, r546, I would question whether it actually happened.
by Anonymous | reply 547 | December 24, 2020 12:53 AM |
The play and film pretty much skip over WWII, but it is most definitely part of the original novel -and its sequel.
by Anonymous | reply 548 | December 24, 2020 1:02 AM |
In this day and age of shows running for 6 or 10 or 20 years it's surprising that the original run of Auntie Mame only had Greer Garson and Bea Lillie step into the role. I would have thought there'd be dozens of former movie divas who would have loved to replace and keep the show running far longer.
by Anonymous | reply 550 | December 24, 2020 2:20 AM |
Once the movie got made, r550....
by Anonymous | reply 551 | December 24, 2020 2:22 AM |
[quote]I'm confused about this supposed notion of Russell's of moving the action of Auntie Mame up to the 1950s. Clearly, about 20 years go by so did she think it would begin in the 1950s or end in the 1950s (which it seems to do in the film based on the decor and costumes)?
Good question! She probably didn't think it through, but I assume she had it in mind that the first part of the story would take place in the mid '50s and the later parts in the years thereafter, then the near future. I don't think there's a full 20-year span in the story, I think young Patrick is supposed to be about 11 or 12 and adult Patrick is supposed to be college age, so that would be a span of less than 10 years. And yes, then there is the scene at the end with Patrick and Pegeen's son, but that's only one scene, and the boy is supposed to be very little.
Oh, and it's not a "supposed" notion of Russell's that the action of AUNTIE MAME should be moved up to what was then the present day, the mid-1950s. This is well documented, as I noted above.
by Anonymous | reply 553 | December 24, 2020 4:44 AM |
Wow I know Sally Bowles is supposed to be a mediocre singer but Jill Haworth hits some pretty bum notes in that clip at R552. That Fiddler excerpt is pretty dire, too.
by Anonymous | reply 554 | December 24, 2020 8:53 AM |
oh noooooo not the Sally-Bowles-is-supposed-to-be-a-mediocre-singer debate. It's Christmas Eve!
by Anonymous | reply 555 | December 24, 2020 12:42 PM |
Yes! We should be talking about Follies!
by Anonymous | reply 556 | December 24, 2020 12:50 PM |
Didn't Sylvia Sidney play MAME somewhere?
As for Bea Lillie, this is one of the performances I'd give anything to have seen. Someone told me that she basically used young Patrick as a prop.
by Anonymous | reply 557 | December 24, 2020 1:10 PM |
I believe Sylvia Sidney played AUNTIE MAME, if that's what you mean :-)
by Anonymous | reply 558 | December 24, 2020 3:12 PM |
Yes, r558, I did. Trying for shorthand won't go unnoticed by this board! :)
by Anonymous | reply 561 | December 24, 2020 5:54 PM |
Re Sylvia at R560: Now we know what Bette Davis would have looked like had she played Auntie Mame back in the '50s.
by Anonymous | reply 562 | December 24, 2020 6:15 PM |
How puff-puff VIVID!
by Anonymous | reply 563 | December 24, 2020 7:46 PM |
Speaking of Miss Kaye Ballard...
*
ROYAL FLUSH
by Anonymous | reply 565 | December 24, 2020 10:21 PM |
I imagine one could stage a revival of Molly behind Kaye's beef curtains.
by Anonymous | reply 566 | December 24, 2020 11:38 PM |
Is that your...version...of wit, 566?
by Anonymous | reply 567 | December 24, 2020 11:43 PM |
[quote]Trying for shorthand won't go unnoticed by this board! :)
Well, it didn't work in this case, as there is a separate show called MAME, and since you used all caps, it looked like you were referring to that one.
by Anonymous | reply 568 | December 25, 2020 12:06 AM |
Rosiland Russell was cruel to Mia Farrow during the Sinatra marriage. Farrow could never figure out why Sinatra was hanging out with people 20 years older than him, particularly Russell.
by Anonymous | reply 569 | December 25, 2020 2:05 AM |
Well, Roz was on to Mia and in the end, Frank was grateful.
by Anonymous | reply 570 | December 25, 2020 2:11 AM |
Roz was 8 years older than Frank and he was 30 years older than Mia.
by Anonymous | reply 571 | December 25, 2020 3:02 AM |
Merry Christmas, Bitches.
The Dangerous Christmas Of Red Riding Hood.
by Anonymous | reply 572 | December 25, 2020 3:34 AM |
For those of you who don't have a lot of time right now, here's the must-see number from "The Dangerous Christmas of Red Riding Hood." Liza seems really quite insane. Co-starring Cyril Ritchard . . . wearing a dress. This show originally aired in 1965.
by Anonymous | reply 573 | December 25, 2020 4:38 AM |
Did Dame Julie ever see Kaye’s beef curtains?
by Anonymous | reply 574 | December 25, 2020 5:30 AM |
Couple of great Styne/Merrill songs in Red Riding Hood. Ritchard has never been campier. Hard to believe he was straight.
by Anonymous | reply 575 | December 25, 2020 1:35 PM |
Hard to believe you believe he was straight. Anyway....
by Anonymous | reply 576 | December 25, 2020 2:07 PM |
This must have been the absolute nadir of Helen Gallagher's career.
by Anonymous | reply 577 | December 25, 2020 5:07 PM |
I think she enjoyed doing it, r577. She said that, as a dancer, it was great to play a role where she was always pulling her stockings down instead of up.
by Anonymous | reply 578 | December 25, 2020 5:12 PM |
[quote]Couple of great Styne/Merrill songs in Red Riding Hood.
Jule Styne and Bob Merrill wrote even better songs three years earlier for "Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol," in 1962. I think it was pretty much the first of the animated TV Christmas specials that proliferated for years to come.
by Anonymous | reply 579 | December 25, 2020 5:29 PM |
Tony Awards '73 - Dance medley with Gwen Verdon, Donna Mc Kechnie, Paula Kelly, Helen Gallagher
by Anonymous | reply 581 | December 25, 2020 6:44 PM |
I'd like to send special Season's Greetings to Valens for all his great work for us in 2020.
Mwah!
by Anonymous | reply 583 | December 26, 2020 12:33 AM |
Valens got me through the early part of the pandemic. CHEERS!!!!!
by Anonymous | reply 584 | December 26, 2020 1:33 AM |
Damn. Ellen Greene sounds GREAT in that song from TPOS. For years, the only thing I had ever seen or heard her in was LITTLE SHOP, but the video clips and audio recordings of other performances that I've seen since then have only increased my admiration for her talent.
by Anonymous | reply 585 | December 26, 2020 3:50 AM |
THANKS!!!!!
by Anonymous | reply 587 | December 26, 2020 3:58 AM |
R583 r584 Kisses.
by Anonymous | reply 588 | December 26, 2020 5:57 AM |
I randomly watched the Stars in the House reunion for the Pippin revival tonight. Matthew James Thomas was an adorable twunk in the title role, but, DAMN, he's gotten THIC. He knew exactly what he was doing when he chose that short sleeve shirt. (See 5:30 into the video.)
by Anonymous | reply 589 | December 26, 2020 6:12 AM |
R581 - they were all fabulous, but I couldn't take my eyes off of Gwen. The video quality is so bad that, at times, you can barely make out their faces, but I instantly knew who Gwen was just by her movement -- so precise, every muscle. Fabulous.
by Anonymous | reply 590 | December 26, 2020 6:58 AM |
god, is seth still beating that stars in the house thing to death? Who cares? Reunite the cast of Rachael Lily Rosenbloom, you big nosed meeskite, and then maybe I'll tune in.
by Anonymous | reply 591 | December 26, 2020 8:34 AM |
Chiming in with huzzahs for Valens. His theatre and Rock Follies saved my sanity when I had Covid in the spring.
by Anonymous | reply 592 | December 26, 2020 2:07 PM |
I felt the same way about Paula, r590. That may have been due to her height.
by Anonymous | reply 593 | December 26, 2020 2:19 PM |
BAJOUR!?
by Anonymous | reply 595 | December 26, 2020 5:17 PM |
New thread STAT
by Anonymous | reply 596 | December 26, 2020 5:43 PM |
WHOOP-UP!
by Anonymous | reply 598 | December 26, 2020 5:48 PM |
Theatre Gossip #409: Casting Couch Edition
Discuss.
by Anonymous | reply 599 | December 26, 2020 6:01 PM |
Bajour.
by Anonymous | reply 600 | December 26, 2020 6:03 PM |
No, I get to Bajour, r600. Also I will link your new thread with that non-creative title, since you were too lazy to do it. But....you *did* start it, so I will grit my teeth and give you thanks...
by Anonymous | reply 601 | December 26, 2020 6:11 PM |