Theatre Gossip #409: Casting Couch Edition

Speaking of casting couches: What with Covid and closed theaters, wouldn't this be the perfect time for the NY Times to finally publish its expose of sexually harrassed chorus boys and girls? It certainly wouldn't hurt business.

How many theatre actors slept with each other? Gavin Creel, Jonathan Groff, Neil Patrick Harris, etc. etc. etc.

They all meet in the basement of the Winter Garden on Wednesdays between matinee and evening show and have an orgy. It's a Broadway requirement

There is no NYTimes story. They did the research, and although they could find some directors whom people talked about how nasty they were, they couldn't find any pussy/dick for play stories. Sorry, kids...

Who's the very stupidest Broadway producer? A lot of them are very dumb.

Dimitri Weissmann

Max Bialystok

For all its faults, I really miss Broadway and will be glad when the lights go on again.

you must b white r8

No, R9, I'm black but it's funny you would think that based on my comment.

How can this thread continue without mentioning my favorite grime eliminator Formula 409?

Wasn't 409 the collective IQ of the cast and creative team of Spiderman Turn Off the Dark?

Horrid title.

[quote]Who's the very stupidest Broadway producer? A lot of them are very dumb.

In the past tense: Harvey Weinstein :-) I would also say Garth Drabinsky was incredibly stupid, and evil, in thinking he could get away with that chicanery.

Nice to see chicanery.in use!

Finally, I can post again. Kaye Ballard once said that "Maybe This Time" was written for her. Is there anyone to back that up? She seemed to be comic belter and that song doesn't seem to fit her loud style.

R16, not all of Kaye's number's were "comic belt" songs. She introduced "Lazy Afternoon" in THE GOLDEN APPLE, and that would have been years before "Maybe This Time" was written. I'm surprised you didn't know this.

I only know Kaye from two things: Cinderella and The Mothers-in-Law. Are you telling me she could sing a ballad?

Hence her name, Kaye Ballad!!

Kaye's real name was Catherine Ballotta but she changed it to Kay Ballad (no r) when started her career. When she went out on the road with Spike Jones Band he told her to add the a making it Ballard which he said sounded prettier. She removed the e to the end of Kaye when she did the Broadway show Molly because a numerologist told her she needed fewer letters in her name for luck. Molly was still an unmitigated flop.

She had a long history of bad career happenstances, some of her own making. She introduced the song Fly Me to the Moon in a recording in 1954 but it was still called In Other Words back then. It went nowhere until Frank Sinatra sang it with the new title 10 years later. When she was a regular on the Perry Como Show, she turned down the song My Coloring Book when it was offered to her by its composers Kander and Ebb because she thought it was silly. It went to another regular Sandy Stewart who had a huge hit with it. When Kander and Ebb wrote Maybe This Time for her, she recorded it without success and they brought it out of their trunk to be included in the film of Cabaret (it wasn't in the stage show). Kaye was also offered a recurring gig on The Garry Moore Show which she turned down after a few weeks. She was replaced by the young unknown Carol Burnett and it launched her career. And lastly, Kaye, a long-time fan of Fanny Brice, made a recording of her hit songs and tried to get someone to write a Broadway show for herabout Fanny. We all know how that turned out.

It's all in the documentary The Show Must Go On! Watch it on Amazon Prime.

And yet the doc is all from her POV. I think a lot of the things she says in it could be contradicted by others. Some of it seems very self-serving. Still, it's an entertaining film.

[quote]When she was a regular on the Perry Como Show, she turned down the song My Coloring Book when it was offered to her by its composers Kander and Ebb because she thought it was silly. It went to another regular Sandy Stewart who had a huge hit with it.

Kitty Kallen also had a big hit with "My Coloring Book."

As did Barbra Streisand. Everyone but poor Kaye.

I watched the Rose Marie documentary on Prime last night. Similar format to Kaye Ballard's in that it's the Ancient Lady talking to an unseen narrator as clips from her career go by. But in Rose Marie's there are also very cheesey "recreations" of moments with contemporary actors in bad costumes, which seemed unnecessary and distracting. Talking heads like Carl Reiner, DVD and Peter Marshall (who I think also served that purpose in Kaye's).

But fascinating watching this child star phenomenon who went from making millions on radio and vaudeville in the 1920s to being one of the first stars to make a career in post WWII Las Vegas as the pet of the mobsters and Bugsy Siegel to playing Sally Rogers on DVD and then finally on to the Hollywood Squares and 4 Girls 4. Yet true A list stardom eluded her and she was always scrounging for jobs and never really retired.

It takes quite awhile on the DVD Show before they address the jealousy over MTM but it all comes out. Perhaps the sweetest part of the documentary is about her long marriage to trumpeter Bobby Guy, which I knew nothing about. She took to wearing bows in her hair in the late 1950s but switched to a black bow when Guy died prematurely in 1964.

R16, Kander and Ebb's first hit song, not written for a musical, was "My Coloring Book," later recorded by Barbra and many others. According to the Kaye Ballard documentary, they wrote it with Kaye in mind when she was one of the Kraft Music Hall Players on Perry Como's show. Paul Lynde and singer Sandy Stewart were among the other members. But when Kander and Ebb presented it to Kaye, she said that it wasn't right for her and that they should give it to Sandy. Perhaps because she was a comic belter? Anyway, Sandy Stewart had a hit with the song, which reached No. 20 on Billboard's Top 40. Sandy talks about it in the documentary.

Sandy Stewart, by the way, was married to Broadway composer Moose Charlap, of "Peter Pan" and "Whoop-Up!" fame.

^^ Sorry. Didn't know "My Coloring Book" was already discussed by R20. ^^

Matron Mama Morton

I think Kay Ballard and Jo Anne Worley should have played sisters in something. Call me crazy.

I think Rose Marie and to a lesser extent, Kaye Ballard were both a bit deluded about the extent of their talents and their relative importance in cultural history. Spending decades in the biz doesn't automatically give you "legend" status any more than living past 90 or being in close proximity to the Dick Van Dykes and MTMs and Carl Reiners. Or being a recognizable personality on game shows.

This is similar to the self-mythologizing that Elaine Stritch dined out on for the last decades of her life. Enough already.

Miss...Lynne...Thigpen!!!

Lynne Thigpen -A very talented performer who left us too soon.

Tintypes

[quote]I think Rose Marie and to a lesser extent, Kaye Ballard were both a bit deluded about the extent of their talents and their relative importance in cultural history. Spending decades in the biz doesn't automatically give you "legend" status any more than living past 90 or being in close proximity to the Dick Van Dykes and MTMs and Carl Reiners. Or being a recognizable personality on game shows.

Who pissed in your cornflakes, [r29]?

Tintypes on the Tonys

I saw Tintypes at - I think it was the Golden, where it moved from off Broadway. Loved it.

I would guess that most of the funding for the Kaye Ballard and Rose Marie docs came from their own bank accounts and that's fine. They were both in their 90s when they were completed and if the films sent them off with a warm feeling of accomplishment, what's so bad about that? They're simply nice documents of their lives and careers and probably won't change anyone's opinions about them either way.

Annie Bowles...

I loved TINTYPES as well, first seeing it at the little theater in the newly built Citicorp Building on the eastside....I think it was part of Saint Peter's Church. IIRC there were a few shows produced there back then. Anyway, it was a beautiful little jewel of a show that we'll never see the likes of again.

Speaking of WORKING, r30, this song always chokes me up. Maybe because I'm not close with my own father.

The fuller orchestration on the final verse is where I tear up.

"I think it was part of Saint Peter's Church. IIRC there were a few shows produced there back then.:

And still were pre-pandemic: the York Theatre.

Yes, r40, the York has been using that space for quite a while but I thought I remembered there were some commercial off-Broadway productions like Tintypes that were produced in that space when it was first built. Did The Elephant Man start there?

[quote]Finally, I can post again. Kaye Ballard once said that "Maybe This Time" was written for her. Is there anyone to back that up? She seemed to be comic belter and that song doesn't seem to fit her loud style.

It was mentioned in the last thread. Kander and Ebb wrote it in the the early 60s for Kaye's nightclub act. It became a staple on the New York cabaret circuit in the late 60s and I think Marilyn Maye did it frequently (but I'm open to correction on that). Anyway, when they went looking for extra material for Liza in Cabaret many people knew it and suggested it.

[quote]Finally, I can post again. Kaye Ballard once said that "Maybe This Time" was written for her. Is there anyone to back that up? She seemed to be comic belter and that song doesn't seem to fit her loud style.

It was mentioned in the last thread. Kander and Ebb wrote it in the the early 60s for Kaye's nightclub act. It became a staple on the New York cabaret circuit in the late 60s and I think Marilyn Maye did it frequently (but I'm open to correction on that). Anyway, when they went looking for extra material for Liza in Cabaret many people knew it and suggested it.

I don't have a musical ear but to me, Kaye's and Liza's singing voices both have a distinct flatness to them when they're reaching for notes. Does anyone else hear that?

^ R43 here. When I wrote "When they went looking for extra material for Liza" I probably should have said when Fosse wanted another song for Liza. I think Liza had even recorded it before the film, so she could have been the one who suggested it.

I don't know its origins but the story about Roz Russell and not eating yesterday's stew when offered Mame was published in the below issue of Life magazine. There were several pages of pictures from the show, which Life often did for new hit musicals, and the accompanying story was about how Angela got the part after many better known stars had turned it down.

Angela singing Love Is Only Love during a piano run through of Mame. It was cut but then given to Barbra for the film version of Dolly.

I remember Lynne fondly from the movie version of GODSPELL and then saw her live in TINTYPES, a really charming little Bway revue.

I worked with Lynne on An American Daughter. She was a doll. Gone far too early.

Is it the same troll who keeps shittin' all over beloved old timers like Roz Russell, Kaye Ballard and Rose Marie?

I mean, how can you hate any of them? All of them were delightful, fantastic performers.

And, Roz Russell wasn't stupid. Neurotic and grande damey, yes (like most star-divas) but stupid...no. Far from it.

Kaye and Rose Marie were never really headliners in a traditional sense and that obviously bothered them but the world needs brilliant second bananas as well as leads. The second bananas are frequently more talented and more interesting than the ones who do become the headliners who frequently tend to be a tad bland in order to fit into Everyman roles.

I think spending decades in the business is an excellent definition of legend, actually. When you get to a point where you have, 50, 60, 70, years of work under your belt as a performer, you're a legend.

[quote] When you get to a point where you have, 50, 60, 70, years of work under your belt as a performer, you're a legend.

...Which means we probably have many legends on this site.

Wikipedia lists Kaye's worth at her death as $8 million. Not bad.

Didn't Kaye own a house in Palm Springs that Desi Arnaz gave or sold to her after The Mothers-in-Law? I believe the street it's on is now called Kaye Ballard Lane.

[quote]I think Liza had even recorded it before the film, so she could have been the one who suggested it.

Someone said that Liza auditioned for the original Broadway cast of Cabaret with "Maybe This Time".

Prince chose actresses who were more warblers than actual singers (Jill Haworth, Judi Dench) for Sally. I wonder if he did that so as not to overshadow Lotte Lenya, and later Lila Kedrova in London.

I remember owning an album, maybe Liza's first, that had Maybe This Time on it, long before the film of Cabaret.

"Maybe This Time" was on Liza Minnelli's first album, LIZA! LIZA! (1964).

Live link

r58 and r59, yes! That's the album.

I met Lynne on the set of The Paper and then spoke with her on set of the remake of Shaft. Extremely nice lady. What a tragic loss.

Lynne Thigpen will forever be known to me as the Chief in the children's game show WHERE IN THE WORLD IS CARMEN SANDIEGO? which I loved to watch as an elementary school geography nerd in the early '90s.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]you must b white [R8]

How/why does wanting the return of Broadway/theater make someone white?

[quote]I don't have a musical ear but to me, Kaye's and Liza's singing voices both have a distinct flatness to them when they're reaching for notes.

If you mean flat in pitch, then you're right, you don't have a musical ear. Not sure if you mean "flat" in some other sense.

[quote]Roz Russell wasn't stupid. Neurotic and grande damey, yes (like most star-divas) but stupid...no. Far from it.

I'm not saying, and shouldn't have implied, that she was stupid throughout her life in every situation and on every occasion, but she certainly said and did some extremely stupid things, like when she insisted that the action of AUNTIE MAME be updated to the then-present day for the stage adaptation. We can all be grateful that Lawrence and Lee ignored her on that one, but they took a big risk in doing so. And as for Roz denying that any of her singing the movie of GYPSY was dubbed, I would say that's a combination of stupidity, neurosis, bitchiness, divadom, and a lousy ear for music.

I worked with Roger Berlind on a few Broadway shows. He was a true gentleman of the theater. He trusted artists, allowed everyone to do their job, and was highly respected and beloved by colleagues. They really don't make them like him any more. RIP

insufferable

R56 Hal Prince passed on Liza for "Cabaret" not because of her singing or other qualities. He insisted that Sally be created by a British girl, hence Jill Haworth.

Trivia: Kaye Ballard did the national tour of the Phil Silvers vehicle "Top Banana." She was playing the role created on Broadway by Rose Marie.

R66, indeed. Berlind was a prince. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about him -- and considering that producers tend to make lots of enemies because of the nature of their job, that's really saying something.

R67 apparently has nothing to contribute here beyond insulting me. But I actually consider it a badge of honor to be insulted by someone like that, as it tells me I must be doing something right.

[quote]I think Kay Ballard and Jo Anne Worley should have played sisters in something. Call me crazy.

She was only "Kay" Ballard during the show she hoped would put her in the top tier of Broadway stars but turned out to be a huge flop, "Molly." Her numerologist suggested she drop the E from her first name.

It worked out okay though because that same numerologist advised Dionne Warwick to pick up that tossed E and become Dionne Warwicke.

Imelda

R27 - that was great! I didn't realize that Bebe played Velma as far back as 1992. Was this the origin of the NY Encores production or were they completely unrelated? I'm not really familiar with Kaye Ballard (sorry, Eldergays!) but she sounds sensational there.

This is a hoot.

That numerologist who suggested dropping and adding vowels sounds like she got a kickback from Pat Sajak on "Wheel of Fortune" for buying vowels.

R73 The 1992 Long Beach CA production of "Chicago" was indeed a significant step in the subsequent history of the show. It was directed by Rob Marshall, who would go on to direct the film version. It was choreographed by Ann Reinking, who would go on to choreograph the 1996 Encores!/Broadway production. And Bebe Neuwirth was Velma, a role for which she would win a Tony when she played it again four years later.

For '96, Reinking's choreography was "in the style of" Fosse. For Long Beach '92, Reinking pretty much reproduced Fosse's '75 choreography, which she would have been familiar with from having replaced Gwen Verdon in the original production.

Also recreated from '75 were Tony Walton's set designs. And returning from the '75 cast were Barney Martin (Amos) and M. O'Haughey (Mary Sunshine).

Kaye Ballard was Mama Morton, and Gary Sandy was Billy Flynn.

Aren't you forgetting somebody, r76?

R77 Yes indeed, thank you: Juliet Prowse was Roxie at Long Beach. In the late '60s she had made a big hit in Fosse's "Sweet Charity" in London.

Juliet and Chita being introduced by a VERY angry Dick Van Dyke

Was Dick drinking?

Also, what was Juliet Prowse famous for? Did she actually ever achieve anything or was she one of those people who were famous by osmosis? I only know her as doing L'eggs commercials and appearing on The Love Boat. I realize she's a bit before my time, but did she ever originate a role?

^^ Dick Van Dyke must have been drinking backstage.

[quote]Also, what was Juliet Prowse famous for? Did she actually ever achieve anything or was she one of those people who were famous by osmosis?

She was famous for having a great set of gams. She was in the movie "Can-Can," which starred Frank Sinatra and Shirley MacLaine. Prowse and Sinatra were engaged for a while but never married. She starred in a sitcom called "Mona McCluskey" that ran only one season, from 1965-1966. She was also in the movie "Who Killed Teddy Bear," along with Sal Mineo and Elaine Stritch.

Dick Van Dyke seems to think he's getting played off.

Juliet admiring Sal Mineo's physique

R65 You seem obsessed with finding stupidity in things that aren't actually "stupid". Misguided perhaps, but having ideas that aren't the best doesn't necessarily or always mean they were stupid ones. And, "stupid" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Judging by the final script of the play and the film, Russell actually succeeded in getting her way to a degree. The play and the film are both bad about sticking to historical accuracy (as were many plays and films then and now). The first third of the play actually uses the time setting as a plot point with it all revolving around the time of the Wall Street Crash of 29 but the design is pretty wobbly (it always seems like the 50s) and after Mame marries Burnside and Patrick grows up, they make zero effort at any attempt of having the setting represent any kind of possible realistic timeline following the early material clearly set circa 29/30. Realistically, it should be around the early 1940s or maybe, at a stretch, just after the war (though the war is never mentioned) but the play and film both play fast and loose with time and it seems very much like we're in the 50s. And, unless you're hyper picky, it doesn't really matter.

As for Russell insisting on telling the lie that it was her singing all the material in Gypsy, well, that's ego and self-preservation. It's vanity and it's foolish (obviously, it's not her singing 100% of the time) but...meh. Who cares? She wasn't the first or the last person (or star) to do that. It's silly human nature and as long as it's not hurting anyone (unlike say Donald Trump lying about shit all the time in the role as POTUS) what difference does it make? There's a world of difference between a foolish act and a stupid one born out of ignorance or cruelty.

Audrey Hepburn obviously never got over being dubbed in [italic]My Fair Lady[/italic], which it's why it's too bad she didn't live to see the 30th anniversary restoration/re-release and the rediscovery of her vocal tracks.

Didn’t Juliet prowse open the London production of sweet charity with star billing? So she must have been well known and talented enough for fosse.

[quote]Judging by the final script of the play and the film, Russell actually succeeded in getting her way to a degree. The play and the film are both bad about sticking to historical accuracy (as were many plays and films then and now).

Another Roz Russell vehicle, Wonderful Town, was like that as well. A plot point in the show is the building of the Seventh Avenue subway. Yet, the show is clearly set in the 1950s.

I think when the time period of a show was only a couple of decades in the past, there was a fear that the costumes might look unflatteringly old-fashioned, not charmingly nostalgic. You'd never know that The Most Happy Fella took place in the 1920s, looking at photos of the original production.

R85, fine with me if you want to use those other negative words rather than "stupid" to describe Roz's denial that she was dubbed in GYPSY, but I would say "stupid" definitely applies as well, in that she was stupid to think there wasn't full evidence of the fact that she was dubbed, and stupid to think anyone would believe her that what you're hearing in that movie is "all Roz, all the time." As for what you wrote about AUNTIE MAME, I see what you mean, but I don't think the design decisions reflect on the script, which as far as I can tell is very cohesive in terms of the time period covered in the story.

[quote]Another Roz Russell vehicle, Wonderful Town, was like that as well. A plot point in the show is the building of the Seventh Avenue subway. Yet, the show is clearly set in the 1950s.

In what way is that show "clearly set in the 1950s?" Again, if you're talking in terms of costume design, that's not the writers' fault.

[quote]I think when the time period of a show was only a couple of decades in the past, there was a fear that the costumes might look unflatteringly old-fashioned, not charmingly nostalgic. You'd never know that The Most Happy Fella took place in the 1920s, looking at photos of the original production.

Excellent point. I think you're spot-on as to why those shows didn't go for period accuracy in the costumes and production design. But also, as for THE MOST HAPPY FELLA, there's really nothing in the plot that makes much difference as to whether the action takes place in the 1920s, the '30s, the '40s, or the '50s, so I would say it really doesn't matter in that case.

[quote]Audrey Hepburn obviously never got over being dubbed in My Fair Lady, which it's why it's too bad she didn't live to see the 30th anniversary restoration/re-release and the rediscovery of her vocal tracks.

Maybe you're joking, but Hepburn's vocal tracks for the songs have never been included in any official re-release of MFL. Also, Marni Nixon was quoted as saying she was very upset that Audrey's tracks ever come to light and were available on YouTube, etc., because if Previn, Cukor et al. had really intended to use Audrey's voice for more or all of the singing in the movie, they would have worked with her more extensively, maybe would have lowered some of the keys even more, and would have more heavily processed the raw vocal recordings that resulted, all of which would presumably have made them sound much better than the rather pathetic (my word, not Nixon's) vocal performances that were eventually published for all to hear online.

[quote]Didn’t Juliet prowse open the London production of sweet charity with star billing? So she must have been well known and talented enough for fosse.

Juliet Prowse was a great talent as a triple-threat performer, and it's annoying that some people here have the nerve to ask if she was just "famous for being famous" without bothering to learn anything about her career. P.S. I have read that, rather than Ann Reinking, would have played Roxie in the Encores! production of CHICAGO if she hadn't become seriously ill around that time.

Juliet Prowse was a constant presence on all of the big TV variety shows of the1960s, Ed Sullivan, Garry Moore, Perry Como, Andy Williams, Hollywood Palace, etc., singing and dancing magnificently. She was a very well-known talent of the time. And she was gorgeous.....made a big impression, I'm sure, on all the little gaylings, including me.

Period accuracy in costuming...

Ann Reinking was supposed to play Velma in that Long Beach production but decided to bring in Bebe and focus on choreographing. Lenora Nemetz said in an interview that she and Ann wanted to alternate as Roxie and Velma during their run on bway but Fosse said no.

She had the looks, was a fabulous dancer, but she didn't have that extra star quality, r91. I think it's more a matter of not having a distinct persona. She didn't have Cyd's haughtiness, Chita's fire & snap, or Gwen and Shirl's gamine appeal.

Hmm, I've never heard anyone else say that Juliet Prowse lacked star quality or a distinct persona. There are lots of reasons why she never became a star on the level of some of the other women you mentioned, but I don't think it had anything to do with talent.,

I think that photo of Ethel Merman in the purple costume in Gypsy is interesting. I would imagine Raoul Pene du Bois, who designed it, and everyone else, thought it was just very basic simple "classic" look, not betraying the late 1930s when the scene took place, even though it screams 1959 to us now.

The earlier costumes for Gypsy, set in the Teens and 20s were a bit truer to the period (if still obviously designed in the late 1950s). Once the show hit the 1930s in its timeline, most of the costumes look very contemporary to 1959.

Talent has nothing to do with star quality, r95. I said she was a fabulous dancer. She didn't get a leads in movies or on Broadway. Did she ever even get a TV special, or was that covered by Ann-Margret and Mitzi? Even second-choice level Gretchen Wyler was able to move her career to character actress.

I've never heard of Juliet Prowse being considered for a Broadway musical, either in the original cast or as a replacement. I wonder if that was her choice?

[quote] Maybe you're joking, but Hepburn's vocal tracks for the songs have never been included in any official re-release of MFL.

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. I have so much free time on my hands, due to my being insufferable, that I have researched the releases of MFL and sung along to many of them and have never heard any voice except my own, here on DL and in every other conversation, and so my puny thoughts are more valuable than yours. Is that clear enough?

[quote] Juliet Prowse was a great talent as a triple-threat performer.

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. I have known many people named Juliet, and it in fact is the name of the most talented of my many imaginary friends with whom I enact operettas and musicales. I am also myself a quintuple-threat DL poster, as evidenced by my insufferable ability to troll through previous posts and quote them all in a single omnibus, if you will, post of my own and then pass judgement (some people spell it “judgment” but I judge them, and you, poorly for leaving out the “e”) on them. So I think my word, and spelling, can be taken on this matter.

[quote] I would say "stupid" definitely applies as well.

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. “Stupid” is a stupid word, when there are other words (“insufferable” comes to mind) that apply to me and, I presume, other people, assuming, of course, that there are other people who might have opinions other than mine. Next?

[quote] In what way is that show "clearly set in the 1950s?"

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. My own late middle age was clearly set in the 1950s so how dare you use the digits “1,” “9,” “5,” or “0” without checking with me first? Also I'm insufferable.

[quote] Not sure if you mean "flat" in some other sense.

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. Some people refer to my personality as “flat” which demonstrates, in fact, great sense on their part. They also say “insufferable.” But when you say “flat,” I can’t imagine to what you refer unless you’ve recently seen my ass, which no one has.

[quote] I'm not saying, and shouldn't have implied, that she was stupid throughout her life in every situation and on every occasion, but she certainly said and did some extremely stupid things.

I think my opinion on this topic and every other negates yours. I’m not saying, and shouldn’t have implied, that I’ve been insufferable my entire life and on every occasion, but I’ve certainly said and done some extremely insufferable things here.

I doubt it was, r98. I assume producers didn't really consider her a name outside of Vegas or regional/bus&truck productions of MAME.

r100 that ad is fantastic. Just imagine breathing fire into Mame!

Well, r101, Lucy breathed smoke into hers!

Look closer, r101, it's a matchbook.

I think Lucy breathed Vick's Vapor-rub into her "Mame".

... and it clouded up the lens (on purpose)!

R90 Maybe Roz Russell´s film contract legally prohibited her from talking publicly about being dubbed. This was common practice in many studios, which is why ghost singers were rarely credited. I am not sure everyone knew, at the time of their release, that West Side Story, the King and I, Gypsy, Singin In the Rain, Gigi and South Pacific all included dubbed voices. I could be wrong, but I think their original LP soundtrack releases make no mention of the real singers.

GYPSY LP soundtrack. No mention in the LP cover of any dubbing.

Who fucking cares???

[quote]I am not sure everyone knew, at the time of their release, that West Side Story, the King and I, Gypsy, Singin In the Rain, Gigi and South Pacific all included dubbed voices.

Giorgio Tozzi, a principal bass with the Metropolitan Opera who dubbed Rossano Brazzi in "South Pacific," got an on-screen credit as "the singing voice of Emile de Becque."

I'm a big fan of the National Theatre's productions (mostly...), but I could only take about 40 minutes of their Dick Whittington panto. The set looked left over from some other production, the songs were cheesy and none of the jokes landed (for me). It also clearly needed a full unmasked audience with children. Still, I think British panto must be one of those cultural things that doesn't travel well outside its home country, like Noh drama.

I saw a panto years ago in London starring John Inman of "Are You Being Served?" fame years ago, and it was a hoot! Nothing quite like in in America, and it would help things here if there were when the pandemic is over. Those kids especially loved booing the villains, laughing at corny jokes, and Inman got to camp it up in a dress! Something lovely for Christmas-time.

R110 The Children In need Cinderella worked better.

[quote] Juliet Prowse was a constant presence on all of the big TV variety shows of the1960s, Ed Sullivan, Garry Moore, Perry Como, Andy Williams, Hollywood Palace, etc., singing and dancing magnificently. She was a very well-known talent of the time. And she was gorgeous.....made a big impression, I'm sure, on all the little gaylings, including me.

Yes, this was why I had asked, because I know she was a variety show staple way back when, but usually one has to be famous for something (at some point) to get on that guest star track. Was it Vegas? Did she make enough of a name for herself solely in Vegas to get that sort of fame? Did anyone ever become famous solely on their appearances in Vegas (outside of specialty acts)?

R99 is a god!

Well, she was also engaged to Sinatra. Plus she had the talent to back it up. I'm surprised she never did Broadway though. Reigning dancing triple-threat Gwen Verdon took off a few years after "Redhead" to have her daughter before "Sweet Charity", so that might have been a time for Juliet to try Broadway, but I guess the timing and right show didn't work out.

Yeah, that NT Dick Whittington was woeful. Part of it was that they didn't go campy and low enough. Being the NT, I guess they were determined to be cool and stylish and artistic. And what purpose do those things serve in a freakin' panto?

[quote]Talent has nothing to do with star quality, [R95].

Yes, but whether or not a person has "star quality" is even more subjective than whether or not they have talent, and I disagree with your opinion that Juliet Prowse did not have star quality.

[quote]Maybe Roz Russell´s film contract legally prohibited her from talking publicly about being dubbed. This was common practice in many studios, which is why ghost singers were rarely credited. I am not sure everyone knew, at the time of their release, that West Side Story, the King and I, Gypsy, Singin In the Rain, Gigi and South Pacific all included dubbed voices. I could be wrong, but I think their original LP soundtrack releases make no mention of the real singers.

It's possible that Roz's contract for GYPSY stated something along those lines, but it was far more common at that time for the dubbers' contracts to have such provisions. Marni Nixon always said the reason people found out she dubbed for Deborah Kerr in THE KING AND I was because, although Nixon herself was forbidden to make such a discslosure, there was nothing in Kerr's contract to keep her from doing so. And that's exactly what Kerr did, because apparently she was a really kind and generous person in addition to her great talent. You are correct about the original LP releases of those soundtrack albums making NO mention of the dubbers -- and I believe that includes the SOUTH PACIFIC album, even though Tozzi is, in fact, credited in the film itself.

R99, just to clarify, I hope you weren't trying to make fun of me -- the person who wrote all those comments you quoted -- in your post, because it definitely comes across as you making fun of the people I was responding to. Especially, for example, in the exchange about Juliet Prowse.

Juliet Prowse's initial splash came with the film of CAN-CAN in which she played and danced the role of Claudine, the same part that made Gwen Verdon a star on Broadway. She also played a very sexy snake in The Garden of Eden Ballet in the film.

I don't know if the film was financially successful but it got a huge amount of publicity while still filming when Nikita Krushchev and his wife visited the set as part of their US tour and were supposedly scandalized as they watched the can-can number danced by Juliet and Shirley MacLaine. You can't buy that kind of publicity and it certainly helped launch Prowse before the film even opened. And this was at the same time she was dating Sinatra, the star of CAN-CAN, which was a big deal in all the gossip columns.

And speaking of Sinatra, Mrs. Krushchev and the gossip columns, Dorothy Kilgallen, no fan of Sinatra's, in her Voice of Broadway column was roundly shamed for criticizing Mrs. K's wardrobe on that US tour.

It's also no coincidence that Marni Nixon's dubbing of Deborah Kerr was, by far, her most successful work because Kerr worked with Nixon in the sound studio to achieve a likeness in the transition of dialogue to song. Nixon's dubbing of Natalie Wood and Audrey Hepburn, as well as Lisa Kirk's dubbing of Rosalind Russell, was all done in post-production without the movie stars' participation (or possibly even their knowledge).

R119, that's almost 100 percent true. Nixon and Wood were apparently both at some of the WEST SIDE STORY recording sessions at the same time, but it is correct that neither Wood nor Hepburn worked with Nixon to try to achieve a seamless transition of sound. That said, I think the WSS dubbing turned out very well anway, whereas the MFL dubbing for the most part did not.

"Yes, but whether or not a person has "star quality" is even more subjective than whether or not they have talent, and I disagree with your opinion that Juliet Prowse did not have star quality."

*

I think it's an objective viewpoint, r117. She was certainly talented, beautiful and had sparkle. But that extra something is missing to have been a leading musical actress in films or on Broadway. Also, she wasn't that interesting of an actress to do non-musical roles (neither was Cyd). Look, I like her, but I think the reasons I've stated why she didn't have a Gwen-Chita-Shirley career are both accurate and...objective.

So which Broadway shows are re-opening in July? I'm hearing Hamilton, Wicked and Lion King.

R121, of course your reasons are not "objective." Don't be silly.

What you CAN say objectively is that Prowse never became a star on the level of those other women you mentioned in terms of her never really having been cast and treated as a leading-lady star in major films, TV shows, or on Broadway. But yes, she was a big star in Vegas.

As was Mitzi, r123. They both had the right star quality, personas and stamina for that form. At least Mitzi got a South Pacific out of her career. And I am in no way disparaging Las Vegas stars.

When will they ever learn?

I read somewhere that the London revival of Half a Sixpence as well as the London Aladdin had been filmed for release in theaters. It would seem to me that this would be a good time to release them, before people get vaccines and start doing things like seeing friends and traveling. Also, if any kind soul could point the way to a capture of the Bette in Dolly, it would make my NYE very special!

Bette Dolly Pt 1.

Bette Dolly Pt. 2.

It's not the best capture unfortunately. I know there are better ones out there. If anyone else has a link to a higher quality one, please feel free to share.

FWIW, at the height of her career (1960s-70s), Juliet Prowse was far more well-known to audiences all over the world than Gwen Verdon or Chita Rivera have ever been.

I'm not taking about talent or star quality, simply fame and popularity. If you were not at least a teenager at the time, please don't even bother to respond.

[quote]So which Broadway shows are re-opening in July? I'm hearing Hamilton, Wicked and Lion King.

Come From Away, [r122]. Small show with a low nut, dedicated company and producers.

[quote]Giorgio Tozzi, a principal bass with the Metropolitan Opera who dubbed Rossano Brazzi in "South Pacific," got an on-screen credit as "the singing voice of Emile de Becque."

I should've had his agent.

Gwen Verdon was on the cover of Life magazine and others back then when she was starring in Broadway shows, and she was on tv variety shows. Prowse was South African, so her career was covered there, and having photos of her dating Sinatra, got worldwide coverage. Prowse still didn't have the kind of career Verdon had.

What Broadway shows [bold]won't[/bold] be coming back?

Brazzi-Tozzi

R127 This is interesting, as it's not the supposedly "one-and-only" Bette "Dolly!" video that's been in circulation since spring 2017, clips of which are still available on YouTube. That one was shot from the orchestra and lacks Gavin Creel. This one does have Gavin Creel and is shot from the balcony. It has great HD but no close-ups/zooms, just a full-stage shot with considerable spotlight washout and obstruction. The only part of this one that I've previously seen is the curtain speech celebrating Bette's birthday, which indicates it was shot on Dec. 1, 2017.

r130 - I don't know what planet you were living on in the '60s and '70s, r130, but it sure wasn't earth. Juliet's career was quite respectable, but she was most known for Vegas and her broken engagement to Sinatra. As far has her variety show appearances, Gwen and Chita did just as many.

Always, Always You

I can't believe neither Netflix nor Apple has written the massive check Bette would need to get that filmed DOLLY released! They're all so desperate for content right now. Hell, they even resorted to Diana the Musical, a decision they must have regretted as soon as they saw the rough cut.

r136 Handbags, how tacky.

There is no filmed Dolly, R139. Only bootlegs.

There were cameras all over the Shubert for Bette's last 3 performances. They filmed it.

R142 That multi-camera shoot was for the Theatre on Film and Tape archives. Scott Rudin felt that this "Dolly!" deserved something special in the way of preservation, so he paid for a much more elaborate taping.

Don't know if Rudin himself got a copy, or if the video will ever get beyond TOFT. I do know for a fact that Bette didn't get a copy.

This was such a tight lipped production when it came to video. I don't even remember any promo material other than that all text spot. There are bootlegs for all the Dollys though, right? I remember watching portions of Donny Murphy's.

But it’s possible that it’s of a quality that could be used for broadcast, it would require paying the cast and crew, but presumably it could be done.

Well, I have Murphy and Peters (and Channing, of course) -but no Bette.

Anyone wanna bet Chad Kimball won't be returning to Broadway in anything, anytime soon?

With the Covid surge proving bigger and deadlier than was expected, will shows really be able to reopen in July?

If I was Donna and you called me that to my face, r144, I would slap you silly. I really would.

Hahahah, my bad, Donna! Don't come for me!

[quote]With the Covid surge proving bigger and deadlier than was expected, will shows really be able to reopen in July?

Michael Riedel speculated that Broadway won't open until 2022.

Not sure how much his takes are worth these days.

Well, r150, don't do it again!!!

I think for once, Riedel is spot-on.

Speaking of La Rivera, will we see her on Broadway again? Or will The Fucking Visit be her final bway outing? I can't really see her doing Morrible etc....

Riedel is a drunk and stupid. Theatres will be open in July. Despite our horrible ex-president, 1 million vaccines have already been given. The next month will be bad, but things will begin turning around in late February and March. Just follow the science kids, not someone has stupid as Michael Riedel.

Chita's opening night entrance of The Visit.

That hat!

Angie's Visit...

[quote]Anyone wanna bet Chad Kimball won't be returning to Broadway in anything, anytime soon?

There are always openings for ushers.

What'd Chad Kimball do?

Who did Chad Kimball do?

I'm the person who asked about Juliet Prowse's fame initially, and the Can Can story pretty much answers it for me, thanks. I think making a big splash in a mainstream film (especially back then when films ran for upwards of a year) would guarantee someone could live off that kind of fame (provided they had some talent) for several years without really scoring in another role.

Who is Chad Kimball, and who does he hope to be?

But was Can Can even a big money maker, r163?

Just looked and a Juliet Prowse MAME matchbook recently sold on eBay for $42.00.

Tony winner Miss Janie Sell

[quote]she didn't live to see the 30th anniversary restoration/re-release and the rediscovery of her vocal tracks.

Those vocal tracks (released as an “extra” on the soundtrack CD) don’t do Audrey any favors. Of course, her voice in “Just You Wait” was always available because it was used in the film.

[quote]What'd Chad Kimball do?

This.

r161 and r164 do your homework, we're not your Google-mamas.

Thanks R127!

Can someone tell me about Jarrod Emick's Tony-winning role in Damn Yankees? I'm sure someone here must have seen it when it was running. What's the nature of his character within the context of the show, and did he deserve it? He's hunky.

[quote]Can someone tell me about Jarrod Emick's Tony-winning role in Damn Yankees? I'm sure someone here must have seen it when it was running.

I saw it. He was fine in the role, as I recall. But that was 26 years ago. His performance isn't exactly emblazoned in my memory. I don't know of anyone who's still talking about it after all these years, the way people continue to talk about Laurette Taylor's performance in "The Glass Menagerie."

[quote]Can someone tell me about Jarrod Emick's Tony-winning role in Damn Yankees? I'm sure someone here must have seen it when it was running. What's the nature of his character within the context of the show, and did he deserve it? He's hunky.

If you don't know the "nature" of the leading male character in one of the most popular musicals of its day, can you not figure out an easy way to look it up yourself?

Regarding Chad Kimball, maybe he and Kirk Cameron should go and have lunch together....or should go and do something else together :-)

Joe Hardy is kind of the male equivalent of Laurey in Oklahoma, Magnolia in Show Boat and Julie in Carousel. Beautiful songs to sing but overshadowed by the far more fun characters in their shows.

[quote]If you don't know the "nature" of the leading male character in one of the most popular musicals of its day, can you not figure out an easy way to look it up yourself?

Of course I could read a Wikipedia entry or something, but that wouldn't give me the firsthand, nuanced reactions of an audience member.

Anyway, thanks R173!

I hate when people tell you to google something on a chat board. The whole point of being here on DL is exchanging and expressing knowledge, ideas, opinions and recommendations.

Emick's square-jawed, virile all-American rendition of "Goodbye, Old Girl" was goosebump-inducing, as staged by Jack O'Brien. Trivia: I think Jere Shea played the role in California pre-Broadway, but decided to do Passion instead.

r177 sure, but basic facts like "Who is so-and-so?"?

[quote]STEHEN DOUGLASS

May I call you Stehe?

R178 Do you supposed Shea regretted it afterward, since DY ran longer and Emick won the Tony?

I'm the one who asked who Chad Kimball is. Thank you, R177, but I asked simply because I didn't care enough about this unknown person to spend even a few seconds searching. If some kind poster provided me with information I would read it -but he merited no more from me. And now that I know what a piece of shit he is, I'm glad I didn't bother. And I admire R169's restraint in his single-word comment.

^ Unknown person?

Unknown to me, certainly. And I dare say his name is not a household word across America.

Not one of who, dear?

BTW, I just clicked on R170's elaborate link posted specifically to tell me off. My! How very thoughtful of him to take so much time and energy to not answer an innocent question! That truly is the true spirit of Datalounge. Anyone else would have simply called me a cunt or a whore, and left it at that. But 170 went that extra mile to show just how much of his time I wasted!

[quote]Anyone else would have simply called me a cunt or a whore

You're a cunt and a whore.

R184 You seem tiresome.

Thank you, r167! I was curious, so I looked it up. Chevi Colton was the U/S for Pauline, Paulette, Mitzi *and* Mother. Seems like yeoman's work to me.

I just read Donna McKechnie's autobiography, and boy was Michael Bennett a nasty piece of work. He really fucked over Donna and just about everybody who came in contact with him. There are lots of funny stories in the book, though, and my favorite was when Donna appeared with Merman in Call Me Madam at the giant outdoor MUNY theater during a typically brutal St. Louis summer. After one performance, an embarrassed stage manager told Donna that he had a note for her. He apologized that it was not from him but from Merman. In the note, she asked Donna to stop sweating so much because it was affecting Merman's concentration.

[quote]I hate when people tell you to google something on a chat board. The whole point of being here on DL is exchanging and expressing knowledge, ideas, opinions and recommendations.

For someone to post here asking for reactions to Jarrod Emick's performance in DAMN YANKEES is one thing, and perfectly fine. To also ask what function the character he played in DAMN YANKEES serves in that show is something else, and very annoying in its laziness.

The Broadway industry announced Tony nominations two and half months ago and haven't mentioned them again. Pathetic.

The reason there are no Tonys is no one is willing to pay for them -- not CBS, not the League/Wing, and sure not the shows.

I saw Emmick in the role, and remember he was sex on a stick, but I barely remember anything else. If you had asked me if he had won a Tony for the role, I would have said, "I doubt it." Must have been a lean year in his category.

and his tender scenes with Linda Stephens were sexy and poignant

These were the nominees that year:

Jarrod Emick – Damn Yankees as Joe Hardy

Tom Aldredge – Passion as Dr. Tambourri

Gary Beach – Beauty and the Beast as Lumiere

Jonathan Freeman – She Loves Me as Headwaiter

Even though it was a weak year, Emick definitely deserved the Tony. It was a star making performance and it should have catapulted him to the ranks of leading man on Broadway, but he had a drug problem and an ego problem and very quickly made himself persona non grata. He eventually recovered, but the damage to his career had already been done.

[quote]I read somewhere that the London revival of Half a Sixpence...had been filmed for release in theaters.

Is that the one starring Little Charlie Stemp?

Big temper issues from what I've heard. Nice guy who would flare up. But he brought a lot to a role that could have made minimal impression.

[quote] I saw Emmick in the role, and remember he was sex on a stick

r192 you probably should have gone to London to see him play the lead in The Full Monty

Some more info on Jarrod Emick, all of it hearsay but seems pretty solid: (1) he supposedly had some sort of huge tattoo on his back that was or could have been taken to be indicative of a white supremacist outlook, and of course, this proved to be a liability for him; (2) as per the R195's comment, Emick apparently had some sort of a substance abuse problem, I heard it was marijuana, that eventually caught up with him and resulted in him leaving the cast of ALL SHOOK UP before that show opened. And P.S., I wouldn't say it's true that he or his career eventually recovered.

On a related note, I'll bet that, in retrospect, Jere Shea was very sorry to have chosen to leave DAMN YANKEES for PASSION, and for more than one reason. Not only did PASSION have a brief run, but also rumor had it that director James Lapine treated Shea like shit. (He actually left the business not too many years afterwards.) Of course, there was the upside of getting to work with Sondheim, but I have no idea if Shea felt that balanced out everything else.

Also, for such a weak year, the Tony committee saw fit to nominate Tom Aldredge for a non-singing role in Passion and Jonathan Freeman for doing nothing in She Loves Me over Howard McGillin, who was a delight as Kodaly in that same production. Freeman is the male version of Mary Testa (which may be an oxymoron) in that he's really terrible and hammy onstage and you want to give him the finger while he's performing, but for some reason, people love him.

The real treat for me in that Damn Yankees production was Greg Jbara's butt in the locker room/showers scene. "Soap on a rope!"

I also hear Emick had all sorts of (drug-related) issues in Boy From Oz. It’s too bad.

[quote] And P.S., I wouldn't say it's true that he or his career eventually recovered.

He went on to long runs in The Rocky Horror Show, The Boy From Oz and also did The Full Monty in London, so I would say his career recovered from the big issues he was having directly after Damn Yankees.

Seeing that list of the nominees, I'm not surprised that Emmick won. His was the only role that was absolutely crucial to the show.

Emick headed the London cast, featuring the other original Broadway guys

he was sexy and often half-naked in Rocky Horror too. And sang the hell out of it.

How was Gary Beach as Lumiere? Did he not have very much impact in the role? Did he have very much to do or sing besides lead the big "Be Our Guest" number?

I would say Gary Beach was the only real competition for Emick. He had good reviews. But Broadway was in its resentful phase towards Disney and it wasn't gonna happen.

Beach was delightful in "Beauty." He played the perfect line between camp and character, and his work on the audience during "Be our Guest" was magical. I remember thinking he made the whole show worth (poor Terrance Mann, buried under fur...)

That production...

I remember being underwhelmed by Bebe, and to a lesser degree, Garber in that production. Emick and Jbara were the standouts. I would have nominated Jbara over Jonathan Freeman or Tom Aldredge.

That Damn Yankees was not Jack (Mr. Obvious) O'Brien's finest hour. Didn't he hate Bebe and refuse to work with her ever again?

God, can you imagine having to have sat through Jerry Lewis in that production?

Jerry Lewis on Broadway--

Casey Nicholaw should be forced to watch the segment at r208 until his eyes bleed. It’s not a masterpiece, but it makes one realize how fast choreography has gone downhill. Rob Marshall isn’t a genius but Broadway sure misses him

Jarrod Emick played Jigger Craigin in Lyric Opera of Chicago's 2015 "Carousel" (the one that starred Steven Pasquale and Laura Osnes).

The stand outs in the Damn Yankees revival were Vicki Lewis and Dick Latessa. Everyone else was a big MEH! Lewis and Latessa were the only two that actually acted like they wanted to be there. Bebe and Victor couldn't be bothered to generate any energy and Jarrod just ran on sex appeal.

Oh, and Dennis Kelly did a beautiful "Goodbye Old Girl".

Why are people dragging the DAMN YANKEES revival? The story and most of the dialogue remained the same, but the new musical arrangements and orchestrations were sensational. DAMN YANKEES was written at a time when very different settings were used on Broadway. The first act has 11 scenes and the second act has 13 scenes. The whole show is cut up into pieces, some being" played on set, others in front of the traveler. So episodic.

The late James Raitt did the music for the revival and what he created was wonderful. It moved. It flowed. It screamed the 1950s in the very best way. He imbued it with humor. "You Gotta Have Heart" is one of the most famous songs from the show, but it's just for three ball players and the manager. The revival opened it up for the whole team. (And added showers!) That revival gave "Damn Yankees" a much needed renovation. It's a HUGE improvement over the show as originally presented. If you disagree, go try doing a production or two of that that original script. IT CREAKS.

If that show is produced in the future, use that revival script and score and just put Two Lost Souls back to the way it was written, for Lola and Joe.

Jerry Lewis was not at all to my liking, but his star presence was undeniable. The audience loved him. LOVED. I didn't. But when he walked on stage, his reception was huge. The audience was with him every step of the way. As Carlotta Campion would say, "What are you gonna do?"

And victor garber was the gayest devil since Paul Lynde

Thanks for that write up, R217, and thanks to everyone who responded to my Jarrod Emick question!

Did anyone catch the Encores or Off-Broadway revivals?

I saw Vicki Lewis as Dolly in Florida a few years ago and she was sensational.

[quote]He went on to long runs in The Rocky Horror Show, The Boy From Oz and also did The Full Monty in London, so I would say his career recovered from the big issues he was having directly after Damn Yankees.

I'm not aware of whatever issues Jarrod Emick may have had directly after DAMN YANKEES. I was referring to him leaving or being fired from ALL SHOOK UP in 2005, and I meant that his career never really recovered after that. ALL SHOOK UP was after THE FULL MONTY in London and ROCKY HORROR and THE BOY FROM OZ on Broadway. Looks like Emick's only major credit after ALL SHOOK UP was RING OF FIRE, in which he was basically part of an ensemble cast, and that show had a very brief run.

Emick was great in Andersonville. A jaw to die for.

[quote]I remember being underwhelmed by Bebe, and to a lesser degree, Garber in that production. Emick and Jbara were the standouts. I would have nominated Jbara over Jonathan Freeman or Tom Aldredge.

Bebe was all wrong for Lola, way too cold. Charlotte d'Amboise was much better as her replacement. Garber would have been fine but he was undone by some bad production concept ideas, including handing him "Two Lost Souls" to sing with Lola, rather than having her sing it with Joe (Emick) as written. Emick and Jbara and also Dick Latessa were the standouts of that production, but Jbara played Sohovik, which is not the kind of role that would be likely to get a Tony nom for whoever's playing it.

R211, Lewis was SURPRISINGLY restrained in that show, some would say maybe a bit too restrained.

[quote] Jbara played Sohovik, which is not the kind of role that would be likely to get a Tony nom for whoever's playing it.

You could say the same thing for two of the four roles that were nominated that year.

Funny, I have zero memory of Dick Latessa in Damn Yankees, and I've been a fan of his since I first saw him in The Will Rogers Follies. What a talented man. There was a Tony Award that was so well deserved, when he won for Hairspray.

"If you disagree, go try doing a production or two of that that original script. IT CREAKS."

I did. With George Abbott directing. It didn't.

R217, I definitely agree about James Raitt's excellent work on that DAMN YANKEES revival, and there were some other very good things about it -- including the expansion of "Heart" to feature all of the ballplayers, and I also loved it that Joe Boyd was added to "Near to You" to make that number a trio rather than a duet. But I do think there were some very bad decisions as well, most notably having Applegate and Lola rather than Joe and Lola sing "Two Lost Souls," which you yourself note was a big mistake.

I would not say that the original script, arrangements, etc. of DAMN YANKEES "creaked" when Encores! did the show some years later, with a better cast overall.

Does Greg Jbara still act? He seemed to be all over the place at the time of the Damn Yankees revival including commercials, but now I can't remember the last time I saw him in anything. With his character looks, it's not like aging would have hurt huis career.

And yes, I know he was formerly married to Rebecca Luker....no jokes, please, though it's almost as if Danny Burstein inherited roles Jbara might have played.

Greg moved to television and has been a regular on Blue Bloods for a decade.

Ah, thanks, r229. Don't think I've ever bothered to watch that show. Is Kohl Sudduth from Take Me Out in that cast? I seem to remember hearing that.

I don't know. I've never watched it, either. I just happen to know Greg is on it.

Is it ok to say I don’t get Victor Garber’s career? I think he’s just sort of fine in everything. But don’t understand the decades-long omnipresence in film, TV and Broadway - with star billing yet

Look him up on IMDB, r230.

Just noticed that Michael Berresse was in that production, too, [r215]. He's one of the tumbling players.

I worked with Emick during Rocky Horror.. Whatever his problems may have been elsewhere, they weren't apparent there. He was professional and pleasant to work with. Also, he rocked the fishnets and boa.

Lea and Joan were an entirely different matter..

Lewis in Shoeless Joe. Berresse is player #7. I'd heard he overshot that slide once and went into the orchestra pit.

[quote]Unknown to me, certainly. And I dare say his name is not a household word across America.

But was he more or less famous than Juliet Prowse?

[quote]But was he more or less famous than Juliet Prowse?

Less, because he was never engaged to Frank Sinatra.

Some clips from Rocky Horror. Emick in a boa at :59.

Criminal that they didn't show him strutting down the runway, dropping to his knees and humping the stage, while sliding backwards. The humping the stage part is here. They only show him from the waist up, the bastards!

Trust me, it was a sight to see.

I don't remember a tattoo. If it was a huge as people are saying, I don't think the bustier would have covered it.

R184. Not sure if this is listed anywhere but Beth Fowler took over as u/s for the sisters and Janie when Chevi left. She said in an interview that she went on for Maxine late in the run.

Ann Reinking would have made a sensational Lola.

R237 Thanks for that! His arms are incredible! Was that Alice Ripley?

For whoever asked, besides "Be Our Guest," Lumiere also sings "Human Again," which was originally written for the animated movie but then discarded. He also takes part in "Something There." But the former two are his two showstoppers.

{quote][R237] Thanks for that! His arms are incredible! Was that Alice Ripley?

Sure was. She was a hoot! Also Daphne Reuben-Vega, Raul (papi) Rsparza, and Deidre Goodwin.

Terrible bootleg, but here is Emick strutting and humping the stage at 1:10:13

Also, just noticed Matthew Morrison is one of the Phantoms. Terrance Mann (also a sweetheart) as Frank

You're all welcome.

That we know of, r236.

Fuck! Sorry for the fucked up formatting and typos. Forgive me?

I actually know Muriel irl, too. I'll beg for an edit button.

R242 The cast for that show was stacked, and Emick grinds that stage like buttah! Thanks once again!

Gotta also mention Tom Hewitt as Frank n Furter, also stacked and another true sweetie. His career should have gone much further. That awful Des McEnough DRACULA really fucked him up.

Speaking of Charlotte. She and Donna Marie Asbury were my first Roxie and Velma, in the national tour. Nearly 20 years later I unexpectedly had a free evening on a business trip in New York and got a last minute ticket to Chicago. I figured it would be an awful, dusty relic by then, probably with terrible D-list stunt casting, but a $30 rush ticket wasn't a big investment, so why not? When I opened my Playbill I was genuinely shocked to see that the Roxie and Velma I'd seen in California in 1998 were back in those same roles on Broadway 18+ years later. I only subsequently learned that Donna basically never left the company -- she had a kid in college by the time she left the show -- a kid who didn't exist when she'd started her run in the tour. And, of course, Charlotte returned to Roxie many times over the years. They were both still such pros and were not phoning it in at all. Some of the ensemble was, though. Also, some of them apparently were not averse to carbs by that point -- mostly the men -- I imagine the costume dept let out a few seams. The orchestra was not phoning it in at all. I think the MD may have been that murderous dyke conductor who got a bad reputation. Well, she may have been a cunt, but she got that band in terrific shape. In fact, I'd never heard Kander's music played with such verve. It was like hearing it anew.

Sorry for the unsolicited Chicago memory. Ann's passing has me randomly watching Chicago clips these days.

[quote]Looks like Emick's only major credit after ALL SHOOK UP was RING OF FIRE, in which he was basically part of an ensemble cast, and that show had a very brief run.

Ring of Fire was like Smokey Joe's Cafe. It was a jukebox musical where everyone was ensemble. However to Emick's credit, he got two of Johnny Cash songs which are considered Cash's signature songs: Ring of Fire and Folsom Prison Blues. So in my opinion, Emick got the best solos.

A couple of young actors with Broadway credits have died. Marcus D'Amico (age 55) and Casey Lee Ross (in his 30s, I believe.) Very sad. I wonder if it was Covid.

[quote]I don't remember a tattoo. If it was a huge as people are saying, I don't think the bustier would have covered it.

I don't remember if I heard that he eventually had the tattoo removed or just covered it with makeup, but I'm pretty sure it was accurate info that he did have a huge tatoo on his back at one point, and I believe it was a religious cross.

[quote]A couple of young actors with Broadway credits have died. Marcus D'Amico (age 55) and Casey Lee Ross (in his 30s, I believe.) Very sad. I wonder if it was Covid.

There's a thread about Marcus D'Amico.

Does anybody know who the clogging Daddy is in that Geiko commercial (We really like our new apartment except for a slight clogging problem). He kooks so familiar but I can't quite place him.

[quote][R242] The cast for that show was stacked, and Emick grinds that stage like buttah! Thanks once again!

Any time, [r245]. Skip to 37:00 for a post-coital Mann and Emick. It's hilarious.

If you can stomach Gilbert Gottfried, go to 47:00. GG does his level best to break Emick up - and finally succeeds. Emick thoroughly loses it.

Then Emick has to sing the sad, slow, somber ballad "Once In Awhile", and masterfully pulls it off.

[quote]Gotta also mention Tom Hewitt as Frank n Furter, also stacked and another true sweetie. His career should have gone much further. That awful Des McEnough [heh] DRACULA really fucked him up.

Hewitt left Rocky Horror for that beautiful but horrific tragedy that was Dracula the Musical, [r246]. I ended upon that show as well (poor, poor KelliO'Hara!). Hewitt has such an expressive face. Such a shame to lock it into a scowl for an entire show. Tall, maybe 6'5"? Massive chest, and yes, one hell of a nice guy. He was a murderous Billy Flynn for his short stint in Chicago.

Brian Stokes Mitchell, Tracey Ullman, Michael McKean, Tony Sheldon, Laura Osnes and Michael Berresse, who were doing Bandwagon at Encores, and they all tell of their most memorable onstage disaster. At 3:31, Berresse tells the story I mentioned at [r234] of him sliding headfirst into the orchestra pit. Stokes' story is pretty funny, too.

R211, by the time of the tour, Lewis was not the least restrained, including stretching Those Were The Good Old Days past 10 minutes, "breaking up" mid-scene, adding local references, and laying the ham on thick.

The audiences LOVED it. Ate it up with a spoon.

Of course they did.

Emick's adorable!

[quote][R211], by the time of the tour, Lewis was not the least restrained, including stretching Those Were The Good Old Days past 10 minutes, "breaking up" mid-scene, adding local references, and laying the ham on thick.

I never saw the attraction, but I have a friend who worked with Jerry Lewis on DY on Broadway, [r254] who loved working with him. I would have thought Lewis would be a dick. Apparently Lewis loved the grand gesture, and frequently bought thoughtful and often expensive gifts, took people out for dinners, threw parties.

Knew everyone's name and used it every day.

Lewis in Damn Yankees, if ye dare (I wouldn't)

Hi C-list!! Hope you've held up in this crazy year for actors and artists. 😘

Hi, [r258].

Sorry, I'm *not" c-list actor. That was my (apparently not so funny) joke.

I'm just a nobody insider. Ain't nobody wanna see me on OnlyFans.

R259 - that was my fault for my lack of reading comprehension. But thank you for being nice about it.

I was doing some research on Guys and Dolls and was surprised that Alda and Bigley won the Tonies, not Blaine and Levene, whom we now think of as more memorable. Is anyone here knowledgeable about why?

Just how fiery was Juliet's MAME, you may ask....

And...

Really, r261? You know the drill...

r262/r263 that is so fun. Now I'm looking for clips to see this incendiary performance. Haven't found Vegas, but this says it's from Glendale, CA.

That Over Here! video was taped at the final performance. Patty and Maxine weren’t speaking offstage and Travolta and Reinking had left. They show was supposed to go on the road where it would have be a huge success but Patty was unhappy with the producers and wouldn’t sign. Maxine later teamed up with Margaret Whiting for a regional production but it didn’t go anywhere. It’s a really fabulous show that Encores should revisit.

The "new" Encores probably won't touch it, alas.

You'd be surprised how many tattoos are hidden onstage with makeup, which is essentially like a matching flesh tone opaque paint. Stephen Pasquale has a huge spread eagle tattoo on his back.

r269 when has Pasquale been nude enough to show that—and why didn't I attend?

He was very good (and sexy) in the recent revival of The Robber Bridegroom. That was a really fun production.

They really, really should, r266.

[quote] Ain't nobody wanna see me on OnlyFans.

Nobody wants to see C-List actor there, either.

That production of Rocky Horror was one of the best times I ever had in a theater. I went to see it while I was in NYC for a visit, having just moved from there 6 months earlier. I had such a great time that I bought tickets for three nights later and took a friend. I was back for a job in August, right before 9/11 and saw it a third time.

The first time I saw it, I was upset because Joan Jett was out. Her u/s, Kristen Lee Kelly, was a fantastic Columbia. When I went back a few nights later, Joan was back in and I wished it was still Kristen. Joan was terrible, looked bored and pissed off, and really threw the balance off when she was onstage. The rest of the cast was brilliant. Daphne Rubin-Vega can't sing to save her life, but she's a decent actress and she was having a great time.

The third time I saw it, Ripley had left and Kristen Lee Kelly was playing Janet. She wasn't as good as Janet as she was Columbia, but she was fine. There were a few other replacements in, but Hewitt, Emick, DeLaria, Rubin-Vega and Cavett were all still there. Ana Gasteyer had taken over as Columbia and was just hilarious. She and Tom Hewitt did this amazing, lengthy ad-lib that just about brought the house down.

That show was fun until the audience starting taking over late in the run when it was just a mess. Great job by Christopher Ashley, and David Rockwell's first theater set design. The Times was churlish to dislike it so.

I didn't see it after Hewitt left, but I did watch some of that bootleg above with Gilbert Gottfried and you are correct. The show seemed very sloppy and the audience was out of control. Also, thank christ I missed Sebastian Bach, who sounds horrible on that bootleg.

Angie has man hands!!!

[quote]. Stephen Pasquale has a huge spread eagle tattoo on his back.

I would not object to seeing Stephen Pasquale spread eagle on his back.

Is there some reason that this thread (and all of its predecessors) never stays in my thread watcher? I mean NEVER, nor does it ever show up as I'm browsing. I'm pretty sure I don't have the originator(s) all on IGNORE. It's very frustrating. I have to do a search to find it every single time.

r265 Coincidentally, the only time I've ever seen "Mame" (other than the movie) was in a theater in Glendale a few years ago. And Glendale is not exactly well-known for its theater offerings. The production I saw was a staged reading, however. I have probably been to well over 500 shows in the LA area in the past 10-15 years, but I've never come across a full-scale production of "Mame" for some reason. I don't know why it's so rarely revived.

It's a large cast and needs a big stage. Most community theaters simply cannot put the show on -with or without an orchestra.

Rare early recording of With One Look. Patti wrote in her memoirs how ALW took her to the studio and recorded two Sunset numbers right after she had arrived at London. She wasn’t paid recording these. Anyway, her voice is majestic after long flight and very suitable for the part.

Has Patti’s Gypsy been filmed?

The other big Sunset number ALW made Patti to record right after she had arrived at London. I love the picture and Patti’s voice.

So basically ALW gave up a glorious voice singing his music for a B-list movie star who couldn't sing?

[quote]So basically ALW gave up a glorious voice singing his music for a B-list movie star who couldn't sing?

Yes, basically. And, of course, we'll never know if it was worth it at the box-office, because we'll never know how well the show would have sold on Broadway if Patti had kept the role and received great praise for her performance.

M shows up to chime in at r284.

R273 Her voice may not be to your taste, but Daphne Rubin-Vega most certainly can sing to save her life. In addition to charting on Billboard Hot 100 and Hot Dance charts, two solo albums and a handful of singles, she's originated an iconic role and played two others in Broadway musicals. Give me a character-driven, lived-in voice any day over the anodyne nasality coming out of conservatory programs lately.

Tonyless M.

The show wasn't going to run regardless of who opened it, r285. It's a cold show and not exactly a crowd pleaser, Norma's two power anthems aside.

R289, I'm no fan of SUNSET BLVD. either, but that has nothing to do with my other comment. And if it is true that the show wasn't going to run very long regardless of who opened it, then ALW really might as well have kept Patti rather than throwing her over for Glenn.

I didn't mean to imply it did, r290. However, I think it's a safe assumption that Glenn would sell more tickets than Patti.

Patti may be a superior technical singer, but Norma is a decaying, aged, and sad figure. Patti's high keys, lungs of steel, and vitality worked against the character, and the piece didn't make sense with her in the role. A recast was going to happen, regardless if it was Glenn or someone else.

R291, your phrasing makes it sound to me like you're contradicting yourself.

To clarify: It's possible that Glenn, as a movie star, sold more tickets during her Broadway run in SUNSET than Patti would have. But it's also possible that Patti in the show would have sold tons of tix if she had received over-the-top raves for her performance, which she might have. And as for whether SUNSET on Broadway would have run longer after Patti left the cast than it actually ran after Glenn left, of course there is no way of telling.

Awwww. Dawn Wells is DEAD to us!

[quote]Patti may be a superior technical singer, but Norma is a decaying, aged, and sad figure. Patti's high keys, lungs of steel, and vitality worked against the character, and the piece didn't make sense with her in the role. A recast was going to happen, regardless if it was Glenn or someone else.

Let's just way that your conception of the role is not shared by everyone -- and apparently not by ALW, considering the way he wrote those songs. Do you feel that Elaine Paige, Karen Mason, and Linda Balgord were also miscast as Norma, for the same reason you mentioned?

Well R287, does she live or die?

"And as for whether SUNSET on Broadway would have run longer after Patti left the cast than it actually ran after Glenn left, of course there is no way of telling"

*

No r293, but one can pretty safely assume that Glenn *was* the draw. The show itself wasn't lauded. It was never going to be another EVITA for Patti.

[quote]No [R293], but one can pretty safely assume that Glenn *was* the draw. The show itself wasn't lauded. It was never going to be another EVITA for Patti.

Agreed. But if Patti had opened the show on Broadway and received raves, she might have sold a lot of tickets for her personal triumph in her return to Broadway in a big musical role after a fairly long absence.

Anyway, we're splitting hairs. I agree that SUNSET BLVD. is NOT a good show and wouldn't have had a very long run regardless of who opened it and who replaced as Norma.

Why can't people register the reality of the situation? Frank Rich reviewed the July '93 London opening of "Sunset" in the New York Times and called LuPone "miscast and unmoving." How could they have Patti open the show on Broadway after that review?

As it turned out, by the time "Sunset"opened on Broadway in fall '94, Frank Rich had been replaced as drama critic by David Richards. We'll never know what he would have thought of Patti, but his review was a through-the-roof rave for Glenn.

That 2000 "Rocky Horror" revival in better quality:

and...

With Sunset Boulevard, Andrew Lloyd Webber also played dicey in trying to open the show in LA instead of Broadway. He was trying to make LA the American Premiere rather than just a pre-Broadway stop.

Good Christ, who is that old hag playing Janet in the 2nd clip with Terrence Mann? She looks almost like Debra Jo Rupp!

Well put, r292.

After the show had folded in New York and he had seen pretty much all of the Normas, ALW stated, "If we had opened it with Elaine Paige it would still be running on both sides of the Atlantic." I saw LuPone, Close, and Paige, and Elaine really was the best in the role. Patti was simply too young for the part, though she acted it well. In the end, though, I don't think it's a good show, so it wouldn't have run no matter who had starred in it.

R295 Elaine Paige, Karen Mason, and Linda Balgord didn't sing it in Patti's keys, and both found their way to the decay of Norma better than Patti did. I'll add Buckley on that list as well.....women who were better Normas than Patti, who couldn't seem to calibrate from fiery italian passion to sad, deranged delusion.

[quote] He was trying to make LA the American Premiere rather than just a pre-Broadway stop.

r302, huh? It was the American premiere, being that it was the premiere of the show in America.

Unlikely R298. One of the reasons Patti did not open on Broadway was that advance ticket sales were modest. The L.A. production, on the other hand, was making bank with Glenn. Had Patti opened in NY to rave reviews, ticket sales might not have been enough to fill the Minskoff beyond a few months. She had rave reviews in Sweeney Todd and Gypsy and after the first couple of months, plenty of last-minute tickets were always available in any section of the theater. She may be a Broadway star, but she is just not a big enough box-office draw nationally or internationally and Sunset needed to sell thousands and thousands of tickets just to break even.

The reason Sunset folded was that its budget was poorly conceived from the beginning. It ended up with something like 75% of the potential weekly gross had to go towards operating expenses. So in order for the show to recoup, they basically needed to sell EVERY seat at full price. Glenn´s proven (in LA) box-office appeal guaranteed those sales, Patti ... not so much. This is a show that needed to major star recognition to run and once Glenn left, all they got was great leading ladies with awesome talent . . . but no box-office. The show bled money and it became very clear that it was not going to be profitable unless they considerably scaled it down to cut costs, which ALW refused to do. All the lawsuits they lost added to the expense.

My point being, had Patti opened to strong reviews but soft box-office, the show may have had to close when her contract was up. Glenn at least brought cash that helped fuel it into its second and third years. It also gave the show a lot of press in countries where nobody has heard of Patti but have seen Glenn Close movies, so when those people came to NY, they would pay to see the star they knew.

[quote] but one can pretty safely assume that Glenn *was* the draw.

Now there's a sentence you don't hear every day.

The Wooster Group has postings of some of its shows. If you watch "Channel J" , which is a take-off (sort of) of old public access naked talk shows, you'll be treated to fully-nude Willem Dafoe and Ron Vawter. Dafoe is, well, quite a stand-out. There had been some excerpts of this before, but here you get the whole banana. Hint, hint.

I have only ever heard Sunset and the recordings of LuPone are really gorgeous, and Close not really.

I think part of the problem is exactly the conception of Norma as decrepit. As Wilder said, she is a deposed queen. If you look at the film, Norma is hardly decrepit. She is energetic and active. While playing Salome might be ridiculous, playing a more mature role would not be. Norma's dream of coming back are not ridiculous, only her choice of vehicle is.

WIth Close, Norma could never return in any role. The ending has no impact because the madness is not a revelation---rather we saw it coming from the very start.

Aw, yer a doll, [r258]

For your reward, please enjoy Emick and the wonderfully wacky Alice Ripley in "Dammit Janet!". If you stick around for Terrence Mann's "Sweet Transvestite", don't worry, you haven't lost your mind. The role usually played by Alice Ripley has been taken over by Kristi Kelly (something like that (she was good. I just can't remember her name).

Also in this clip is a purple haired Deidre Goodwin and Mathew Morrison with his finger in his mouth

[quote]After the show had folded in New York and he had seen pretty much all of the Normas, ALW stated, "If we had opened it with Elaine Paige it would still be running on both sides of the Atlantic."

That's a shockingly idiotic statement, even by ALW's standards -- for so many reasons, but mostly because it's not only who opened the show that mattered greatly, but also how long that star would have stayed with the production. I'm no fan of Glenn Close in general or as Norma in particular, but I think everyone agrees that SUNSET BLVD. would have had a considerably longer run if she had stayed with the show longer. (Of course, that wasn't going to happen.)

R311, exactly.

R308, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, I was just playing devil's advocate in saying that LuPone in SUNSET might have sold lots of tix if she had received over-the-top raves (and also if the show and her appearance in it had been marketed properly), but I think you're probably closer to the mark than I was.

Well, the original source was a cynical, noir-ish affair with some black humor thrown in. Norma wasn't a grand tragic figure to build an epic musical around. Sorry, ALW. I would have been curious to see Sondheim's take. Not that it would have been any more successful, but it probably wouldn't have been so by the book.

Both Gloria Swanson and Patti Lupone were 51 years old when they played Norma.

Mea culpa, [r301]!

Didn't see your link.

Also, the idea of Swanson having a sexual relationships with Holden was unusual, but credible.

However, could you imagine Close's Norma attracting a young man?

[quote] R315 Both Gloria Swanson and Patti Lupone were 51 years old when they played Norma.

Patti was born in 1949. "Sunset" opened in 1993. So she was 44 in "Sunset."

[quote]Also, the idea of Swanson having a sexual relationships with Holden was unusual, but credible. However, could you imagine Close's Norma attracting a young man?

Well, to be fair, that is a matter of opinion. But some of the statements in this thread show that some people really do not understand the character of Norma in SUNSET BLVD. If the creators of the character in the movie had wanted her to be "decrepit" or "decayed," they would have written her that way and would probably have made her a lot older than 50, her age as explicitly stated in the script.

If I recall correctly, part of the context for ALW's statement was that had Elaine Paige opened the show it would likely have had stronger reviews on both sides of the Atlantic. Regardless, he went on record saying that hers was the best, definite performance. He and Patti were already long-estranged, but I imagine Close was really pissed!

Exactly, r319. Norma's ensembles were over the top, but were contemporary to 1950 fashions. She wasn't Miss Havisham.

and...

Point taken r321/r322 but remember that those are not casual snapshots but glammed-up photo shoots. That's not everyday wear. But the musical certainly turned her into a bizarre creature and made the potential for their sexual relationship very bizarre. As portrayed in the show, Norma reminded me of the old-time puppet Madame.

R323, there are no casual snapshots of Norma Desmond because she is not a real person. Every photo is calculated. Every costume is designed.

Okay, boys. Really? Enough with Sunset arguments. The show closed 20 years ago, and its not worth any of this.

I don't get Elaine Paige. I have seen videos of her in Evita, Anything Goes, Follies, and Sunset.

She has a good voice, but not one that thrills. Her acting is meh. Does she actually have a following?

Well, they were everyday wear for Miss Norma Desmond (though her everyday wear would most likely have consisted of the robe and turban). I'll say this, r323, Betty Lynn (whatever you think of her performance) still managed a bit of sex appeal so it wasn't all that bizarre.

I understand that they love her in Canarsie, r326.

[quote]If I recall correctly, part of the context for ALW's statement was that had Elaine Paige opened the show it would likely have had stronger reviews on both sides of the Atlantic. Regardless, he went on record saying that hers was the best, definite performance. He and Patti were already long-estranged, but I imagine Close was really pissed!

Anyway you slice it, ALW was, is, and always will be a dick.

I remember as a young gayling getting the Chess concept album in 85 and just thrilling to Elaine Paige. I thought she was magnificent and I was DYING to see Chess. When it finally opened a few years later and Judy Kuhn (who I also love) did it, I was very let down. I don't think anyone has matched Elaine as Florence ever.

And I also think Elaine is the definitive Carla in Nine. She certainly beats the pants off Shelly Bruce, Laura Benanti and Nicole Kidman (though Rebecca Luker nearly matches her).

I don't believe I've seen/heard Elaine in anything else, but from just those two performances, I can understand the hype.

I've been a huge Elaine Paige fan since her Evita days. I have all of her albums and concert videos, and have seen her in concert and onstage live several times. She has a thrilling voice, and tremendous presence and energy onstage. I've even met her a few times -She's friendly and down to earth. Her few film outings haven't shown her at her best.

OMG. Those Juliet P in Mame ads about the fire insurance are hilarious. I love stunty theatre advertising like that. Any other examples of that type of over the top advertising or PR in the theatre world?

Does this thread keep dropping off of anyone else's Watched list? So annoying. Anyway, if you hear the sound of a thousand eldergays gasping in unison it's because 'WithOneLook' has posted 20 mins of the original Follies cast doing a run through.

'WithOneLook,' if you happen to be a Datalounger, thanks so much for all the goodies you've been posting!

Miss Paige is ready for her close-up...

I think that R334 is a really good example of how Paige has a good voice, but her acting is high school level. I really feel that I know now how Stacey Barnes of Massapequa High would approach that scene.

Thank you, r333. I just started it. That close-up of Alexis at the beginning....stunning!

How does Massapequa compare to Felsted, r335?

r333, see r278

Oops...

I don't think the US really has an equivalent of Elaine Paige. I mean, Bernadette and Patti are the obvious comparisons in terms of generation and stardom primarily from the theatre, as well as successful concert careers. But, Elaine seems to have greater fame and reach in the UK than either Bernie or Patti do in the US. She seemed to have crossed over into the greater non-theatre-going public's consciousness in the UK in a way that most theatre performers don't. I think it might also be that the UK is okay with older celebs than we are? No, she's not a very subtle actress, but she's a lot of fun and can certainly sing the shit out of 'BIG' numbers.

R333 Why are you talking to yourself?

R341 -- huh?

Does the sound on the Follies clip go off after the first minute or is that just me?

We have the moon, r343...

I get it and I'm grateful, r344. Thanks, just checking.

Actually watching the grainy film with no sound and those ghostly images is very much like having a wonderful dream about the show, which I was lucky enough to see twice on Broadway way back when.

Oh piffle, r345, what's fifty years? Speaking of which, McMartin does come off as too young in the close-ups.

I assume someone will eventually sync it with the sound board recording like they did with the other footage.

ANGIE/GYPSY

[quote]How does Massapequa compare to Felsted

For you pedo types, the lead boy struts around in his tighty-whiteys at the 50:00 mark. I'm very surprised they didn't give the poor boy a pair of boxer shorts to wear.

[quote]How does Massapequa compare to Felsted, [R335]?

I've never seen the title song sung by the chorus. Well, it's a choice.

Withonelookis kicking Aurora spider woman’s heinie

R333. You’re very welcome. I’m glad people are enjoying the vids I’m posting and of course I’m a Datalounger! xo

Returning to "Damn Yankees" for a moment, I have to add my two cents that I saw Jerry Lewis (who I'm not the biggest fan of...he's ok in a couple of his movies though he frequently annoys me, especially in his interviews) play Applegate on the road and....he was great!

Yeah, he was definitely "Jerry Lewis playing Applegate!" but that's what stars do! They even gave him a 15 minute comedy set in the middle of the show. The theater purist in me was horrified but....it actually worked. It was a fun, starry bit of theater magic, albeit of the corny, crowd pleasing kind.

Also good: our seats which were to the far right and which we originally weren't pleased with but we could also see quite a ways into the wings and so we got to see hunky bare butted chorus boys doing costume changes.

Saw him on Broadway. He was fun and like you I was predisposed not to like him.

[quote] I assume someone will eventually sync it with the sound board recording like they did with the other footage.

Someone did, about 35 years ago, and it's been in circulation ever since. I'd be happy to post it here.

And didn't you all download the valuable "Follies" "movie" created and posted on YouTube some time back by 1971FolliesFan, 63 minutes of "Follies" dubbed footage in exact show order? I would post it here, but that would be "borrowing," something withonelook tends to do, especially from that other site mentioned by [351].

Thoughts on Joan Rivers' 1990s Tony Awards dress?

[quote] Does this thread keep dropping off of anyone else's Watched list? So annoying.

Yes, that happens with many threads I'm watching, but all the thread titles come back eventually. Just hit the menu function in the upper right corner from time to time. Hope that works for you.

[quote]Thoughts on Joan Rivers' 1990s Tony Awards dress?

There sure is a lot of it.

R355. Hey, everything I’ve posted is from my own collection. I don’t borrow and if I did I would give credit. I’m just sharing what I’ve got because I have a lot of time on my hands and I thought others might enjoy. That’s all. Thanks.

R359 Then I will happily apologize and withdraw the statement. Have a happy and healthy 2021.

R359

Mature.

Why is theatre so queer?

Thank you WithOneLook.

That is exactly how the OBC of Follies should be remembered. Faded, silent and a bit jerky.

[quote] Faded, silent and a bit jerky.

Unfortunately, its most rabid fans are only two of the above.

It is also unfortunate r364, that you are only one of the above.

Thank you WITHONELOOK....I've dreamed of seeing that legendary dance break in "Together..."

She was fabulous with her patented kicks, r366!

[quote]She was fabulous with her patented kicks

Meh.

Speaking of which...

Wouldn't Greenwood have made just about the best Dolly ever, kicking her way around the passerelle? (And she probably had the chops to play Mame, too.)

Her Rose? Woulda been legendary.

Well, she *did* get to sing Porter on Broadway...

I hope more sources are going to start asking WTF about the Tonys. Meanwhile, these are some bad picks from Deadline, favoring Sound Inside and Tina overwhelmingly. He says these are the winners he's "chosen," but doesn't make it clear if those are his faves or his predictions. Either way, he's pretty wrong-headed.

In these troubled times, Mary is here to present us with an uplifting message. Climb *every* mountain...

I don't think there's really that much enthusiasm for the Tonys from within the industry. Too many theater people are justifiably bitter about unemployment with no relief in sight. And because of the shortened Broadway season, there are many shows that were about to open (and probably never will) that, of course, couldn't be included among the nominees, leaving a very paltry selection. What's really there to celebrate?

The truth is all the theater owners should step and pay for it. They have the money -- The shuberts, the nederlanders, Ms. Roth -- but they are failing. And with the tens of millions they will now receive from the Save Our Stages, all of angry artists and stagehands and office workers are going to be pissed.

[quote] I don't think there's really that much enthusiasm for the Tonys from within the industry.

Sure but then they shouldn't have done nominations. Now it's just endless dry jerking off with no climax.

They should have skipped the whole nominee part of the process, put together a committee and handed out Outstanding Achievement Awards for last season. Multiple plays, musicals and performances in every category.

And would those "winners" never be genuine Tony winners?

I fear that will happen to Danny Burstein, R379. By all accounts his most recent Broadway performance was truly Tony-worthy, but if he were to win right now there would always be those who belittle his achievement(s) by saying it was a pity vote, or that it was simply "his time." I saw the whole field of nominees during two past seasons when he was nominated, and thought he should have won both times. I didn't see any of this season's nominees, so I can't say whether he should win this time. I think the best solution is to honor all of the nominees from 2020, and announce that if their shows reopen after the pandemic all of those nominees will be reconsidered in the new season. That would be fair.

I think Danny was set to win this year anyhow, under the Kelli O'Hare "it's just time" rule. Actually, I meant in r378's scenario of "Outstanding Achievement Awards," which sounded like they wouldn't actually be full fledged Tonys. Unlike this year, which will be real if they ever happen.

This just in from Aurora Spiderwoman...

*

Ann-Margret/Ann Miller/Anne Meara DAMES AT SEA 1971 TV Production

Burstein is a journeyman performer. There's nothing special about him and, much like many recent multiple performer nominees, he's only accrued the accolades he's gotten because of a lack of real talent on Broadway. How else to explain six Tony awards for Audra McDonald, one of the blandest performers to tread the boards for the past 30 years. And multiple nominees such as Sutton Foster, Kelli O'Hara, hell, even Brandon Uranowitz and Robin DeJesus have three each. If you look at some of the most celebrated and talented theater actors of all time, most of them don't even have half the nominations that Kelli O'Hara does. The bitch has seven. Audra has NINE. She's only originated 11 roles on Broadway. You can't tell me she's THAT good. (And don't bother, because she isn't.)

Danny Burstein, since his breakout role in The Drowsy Chaperone, has originated nine roles on Broadway and has been nominated for seven of them. Sutton Foster has originated seven roles and been nominated for six of them (and will likely grab a seventh for The Music Man).

Most of these nominations have been within a less than 20 year range. (Audra's go back to 1994). Compare it to someone like Patti Lupone, who has seven nominations, but in a span of over 40 years, or Chita Rivera and Julie Harris, who have both had 10 nominations, but over a span of fifty years, which is something few can claim and is justified due to their exceptional talents. But to be a multiple nominee in the span of less than a generation to me highlights how bereft of talent Broadway really is. There really has been no need to expand the performer categories to five nominees, which is likely where much the flab has come from, but that can't be the only excuse.

And to add to r383's point(s), with more and more long-running shows, there aren't as many new shows opening each season as there used to be, right?

r383, truly brilliant assessment. I agree about the lack of talent but never thought of expressing it that way. Thank you.

I hope we might really know each other.

I don't think that's necessarily a factor. There have been long running shows for nearly 40 years that have taken up theaters, but this phenomenon of always nominating the same actors is really only become a thing in the new millennium.

Sorry, R383, but you're full of shit. Though I'm sure you sing better than Audra and Kelli, tap better than Sutton, and act better than Danny. Lack of talent on Broadway? Sure, Jan...

There are some interesting points in R383's post, but if he thinks there is anything "bland" or any lack of talent in Audra McDonald or Danny Burstein.....well, let's just say his tastes are different than a lot of other people's, and so I see no need to pay attention to him.

[quote]They should have skipped the whole nominee part of the process, put together a committee and handed out Outstanding Achievement Awards for last season. Multiple plays, musicals and performances in every category.

Agreed. One upside of the disastrous handling (or, rather, the epic bungling) of the Tonys this year is that the lack of a scheduled ceremony or announcement of the awards can be seen as karma working against the self-important sods behind SLAVE PLAY, who have had the nerve to trumpet their 12 Tony nominations ("more than any other play in Broadway history!!!"), even though the two things that largely account for them having received so many noms are (1) a tragic pandemic that shut down Broadway for pretty much the entire spring season, thereby preventing much of the competition from opening and being eligible for noms, and (2) the overreaction of so many in the entertainment industry to the "BLM" movement, which has resulted in plays, movies, etc. created by people of color being honored out of proportion to their worthiness

[quote]Ann-Margret/Ann Miller/Anne Meara DAMES AT SEA 1971 TV Production

I never miss a Fred Gwynne musical.

[quote]I never miss a Fred Gwynne musical.

You could do worse.

Fred Gwynne was a delight in Angel.

What new plays hadn't opened that would have been Tony competition for SLAVE PLAY or THE INHERITANCE? Or revivals of plays that would have been real competition for those two productions for Tonys in the acting, directing and design competitions? I can think of 2 revivals HOW I LEARNED TO DRIVE and PLAZA SUITE and except for maybe Mary Louise Parker, not much threat there..

Two other new plays that had already received raves from the NY critics would have been competing: "The Lehman Trilogy" and "Hangmen." Other possibilities for new play: "Birthday Candles" and "The Minutes."

How was Miss Sternhagen, r391?

[quote] How was Miss Sternhagen?

No singing voice to speak of. I saw "Angel," and there was a privately distributed cast album LP.

How'd she get the role then?

[quote] There are some interesting points in [R383]'s post, but if he thinks there is anything "bland" or any lack of talent in Audra McDonald or Danny Burstein.....well, let's just say his tastes are different than a lot of other people's, and so I see no need to pay attention to him.

That's okay, R389, your reading comprehension is such that there's no need to pay any attention to you.

R383. Truth! I don’t get the Audra accolades. She seems like a lovely lady but I’ve seen all of her Tony wins and I don’t think any were deserved. And she was just plain bad in Frankie and Johnny. Burstein did nothing with Tevye or Buddy but I did love him in Drowsy. Kelli and Sutton should have stayed in the chorus. Bland bland bland. Where are the Chita’s and Bernadettes Bob Prestons?

...the Irra Petinas?

We do this once (at least) every thread. It’s about idiosyncrasies and star power and personality. The current crop have talent for sure but not the verve.

I think Danny should have won for The Drowsy Chaperone. That performance was exciting and funny and actually felt effortless, and Christian Hoff did nothing Tony worthy in Jersey Boys. But I haven't seen much else that really says "nominate this." He was okay in (a really horrible production of) Follies, but you could see the effort. He reminded me of the Bugs Bunny cartoon where Bugs goes out onstage and sings and tap dances his heart out, then ends with a big finish, his arms open wide to the audience, but when you get close up, you can see his heart beating out of his chest, his labored breathing and the flop sweat. To me, that's Danny.

Audra- I'll take the write off because I don't see it. Not untalented, (None of the people mentioned are talent-free, which if one actually read my initial post, that would be clear. But not such amazing talents that they deserve to be showered with accolade after accolade.) but I've seen her give more bad performances than good. She was fucking horrible in the Billie Holiday play, and she didn't even register in Master Class. I have a feeling the only reason she won for Raisin in the Sun was again a lack of interesting nominees (or shows that voters saw). I doubt most voters made it to Jumpers or Anna in the Tropics.

I feel the same about Kelli O'Hara, only much more. There's a reason her nickname is Kelli O'Blanda. If she only showed as much passion onstage as she does bedding her co-stars or director.

It really sucks that we lost Marin Mazzie and Rebecca Luker so early. Marin was a singular talent, and Rebecca, while I don't think she was a great actress, always had a thrilling voice. Those two were part of that generation that came between the grand stars of Broadway and the underwhelming crop we have now, and to not have them anymore is a big loss. But I suppose there's no place for them when you've got shows like Be More Chill getting produced.

I would have voted for Margo Martindale's Big Mama in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" over Audra's Ruth in "Raisin in the Sun."

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I would never say no to an award for Margo.

Once a person wins a few Tony Awards, voters just keep voting for them because....well, really just because.

I wish Marin had opened in King and I. Extraordinary both in acting and singing.

All of the blandies mentioned above have one thing on common. They’re all sweethearts and the people they work with love them. That goes a long way in the industry. And, let’s face it, awards are nothing but popularity contests.

What are you trying to say, R407?????

R408. Oh dear. There are exceptions. Thanks for the reminder.

[quote]I never miss a Fred Gwynne musical.

"I never miss a Fred Gwynne musical" was a great one-liner, but it misses its mark. Bette Midler coined it re Liv Ullman in Lost Horizon -her one and only musical, and she was dubbed to boot. Fred Gwynne, on the other hand, appeared in three Broadway musicals (Angel, Irma LaDouce, and Here's Love), where his singing was perfectly satisfactory for the character roles he played. Surprisingly, there are no audios from the Angel cast album on YouTube, but here's a cute bit from Car54.

[quote] Lost Horizon -her one and only musical

How quickly we forget Liv Ullmann's star turn on Broadway in "I Remember Mama."

You mean her one and only *movie* musical, r411...

Just to clarify: When Bette cracked wise with that famous remark, "Lost Horizon" was indeed Liv's first and only musical.

We know, we know.

Frances Sternhagen's singing in ANGEL was fine. Her sound was very pleasant, and more importantly, it perfectly fit the character she was playing.

I agree that Audre did not deserve ALL of those Tony Awards, but to go to the extreme of saying that she's bland or lacks "real talent" is ridiculous. I honestly think some of you people label certain performers as "bland," even when that description is WAY off the mark, simply because you don't like them but you don't have the vocabulary to explain why.

Speaking of Here's Love, I just watched Please Don't Eat the Daisies on TCM tonight for the first time in a long time. Janis Paige steals that movie right out from under Doris Day!

NO, Bette Midler was referring to I Remember Mama when she made that “I never miss a Liv Ullman music.” Because...uhhh...Lost Horizon had already come out and it was painfully obvious that Ullman was an unlikely leading lady of a musical.

I'm watching the Jason Alexander-Vanessa Williams-Tyne Daly "Bye Bye Birdie" on Pluto (free streaming.) I haven't seen it since its original airing, at which time I thought it was pretty bad. I guess I've gotten more tolerant or less picky, because it's not that bad. Hugo is kind of a drip and Kim (Chynna Phillips) looks way too old. But it has Ann Reinking's choreography and "introducing Marc Kudisch" as Conrad.

Multiple sources credit the quote to Midler's reference to Lost Horizon, which came a few years before I Remember Mama. What's your source for saying it was the later show that prompted the quip, R418?

[quote]Janis Paige steals that movie right out from under Doris Day!

Payback for Doris stealing Janis's role in the movie of "The Pajama Game" right out from under her.

And for Doris stealing "Romance on the High Seas" from Jan.

Unlike Doris Day, Janis Paige is still with us. She's 98.

Romance on the High Seas is one of my all-time favorite films. Doris was magic in it.

Raul Esparza created an in memoriam video for everyone the Broadway community lost this year (and some from late 2019) who would have been captured at this year's Tonys.

Edit, Papi.

Sorry, I think Papi comes across as self-indulgent on this. Feels like he did it for himself for some reason. And how did they decide who was worthy of a solo frame vs. being in one of those less groupings of four? Peg Murray, Mark Blum, and Lawrence Clayton get solos, but Orson Bean, Ronald Harwood, and Helen Reddy are in groupings. Makes no sense.

Isn't Mary Testa the Irra Petina of today?

Who gets solos in a memoriam video will never make everyone happy. Make your video if you don't like Papi's.

Waiting until I can feature you in it r429. And you won’t get a solo.

Does Mary have one buttock, r428?

Well, I guess Mary Testa is twice as good as Irra Petina.

June Gable was very funny as that Old Lady in the Prince environmental Candide in the mid-1970s. I loved that production.

[quote]Sorry, I think Papi comes across as self-indulgent on this. Feels like he did it for himself for some reason. And how did they decide who was worthy of a solo frame vs. being in one of those less groupings of four? Peg Murray, Mark Blum, and Lawrence Clayton get solos, but Orson Bean, Ronald Harwood, and Helen Reddy are in groupings. Makes no sense.

Thanks for apologizing in advance for your worthless opinion.

discourse here just gets better and better.

Self-indulgent or not, I appreciated seeing the names of people who probably wouldn't have made the cut in a Tony broadcast. I'm crying now -the sense of loss is overwhelming (including two that I knew).

Sorry for your losses, R436. There were a few whom I knew personally, as well. I didn't think there was anything "self-indulgent" about the video, and I'm shocked that anyone would level that charge at Raul -- though, of course, the person who did so would never have had the nerve if they weren't able to post anonymously.

Don't you mean bitter and bitterer, r435?

[quote]I'm shocked that anyone would level that charge at Raul -- though, of course, the person who did so would never have had the nerve if they weren't able to post anonymously.

Pointless bitchery. It's what DL does.

And does well!

And often unnecessarily.

[quote] Isn't Mary Testa the Irra Petina of today

No. Irra Pettina never got three undeserved Tony nominations.

Wasn’t Midler’s Liv Ullman reference in the same show where she “did” Shelley Winters swimming in Poseidon Adventure?

Frances Sternhagen IS “Mame”!

She's a Vera.

She's a Gooch.

She's a Mrs. Upson.

How do you solve a problem like Sternhagen?

Go easy on Franny, please, she’s in advanced stages of senile dementia.

I don't think we're making fun of her talent or lengthy career. That is sad.

With all the brilliant stage work Frances Sternhagen did she’s best known for playing Bunny MacDougal. Now that’s sad.

I worked with her on The Heiress. She was a pip. That was one of the best years of my life. Cherry and Frannie played every performance for nearly a year. I know Cherry was set to leave on Dec 31, 1995, but I can't remember if Sternhagen was staying. Lincoln Center cast Cynthia Nixon to replace Cherry, but advance ticket sales were bad, so they closed on New Years Eve afternoon with Cherry's last performance. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was just starting a bad cold, walked home, stopped off to buy some NyQuil and spent New Years Day in bed in a fever/NyQuil delirium with VH-1 playing a marathon of American Bandstand episodes which they had just acquired.

r451 Sternhagen was in more episodes of "The Closer" and "ER" than she was of "SATC." Plus she's also remembered as Cliff's mother on "Cheers."

Kaye....in other words

Case in point, r400...

Last night a very popular Dutch show called Beste Zangers (Best Singers) did a special including songs from musicals. Here’s a male singer performing “I Don’t Know How To Love Him” with only a few tweaked lyrics.

“Where Is Love?”-pretty good.

“Beauty and the Beast”:

Finally, “Out Here On My Own”-I like this singer, Emma Heesters.

R456 that was nice but his lyric changes seemed designed to make sure the song wasn’t about gay love.

[quote][R456] That was nice but his lyric changes seemed designed to make sure the song wasn’t about gay love.

I don't agree. The only change is from "I've had so many men before" to "I've known so many men before," but I think that's just to take the focus off sex explicitly, and I believe I have heard some women sing the song with that change. There is also the omission of the verse that contains the lyrics "no lover's fool," but I think that was cut just to make the performance shorter. All things considered, in my opinion it's still 100 percent clear that the man is singing about romantic love with another man.

R455 - Never seen that before. Was Nancy Hess after Vanessa Williams? She's... fine.

That's an NSMT production, r462. Maria Conchita was after Vanessa.

I saw Maria Conchita on her first night. She was good.

Is Maria Conchita the one who Seth says was a nightmare to work with?

I totally agree, R461. I think it was absolutely a love song concerning two men.

Nancy Hess was the Spiderwoman standby for most of the run.

And don't forget during Chita's vacation it was MISS... CAROL... LAWRENCE!!!

How desperate is The TIMES they are treating Ratatouille the musical as an event?

R468 - really?? Did she ever go on in Chita's place?

I'm sorry, folks, but I'm commenting on this thread ONLY because that may be the only way to keep it in Thread Watch.

I'm fully paid up, so it's not that.

That probably won't work, R471, this thread (more than any other troublesome thread) keeps dropping off my Watched list, too. Maybe #410 will be a little more reliable.

Carol Lawrence wasn't a stand by or (shudder) an understudy for Chita! She was a vacation replacement.

That's what I said...."during Chita's vacation". She was who I saw.

I was responding to r470, r468..

I meant to make that clear to r470 as well, r475. Sorry.

shame those no video of Carol Lawrence in Kiss is out there. Speaking of replacements, some more of Marin's King & I performance was uploaded. As lovely as Marin is, and, maybe it's because my parents practically wore out the VHS of the film when I was a kid, I've never seen a theatrical production that has been able to touch the magic of Yul and Deborah in the film.

This... is cute...

But this is practically a sex scene. Such incredible tension.

But Carol Lawrence was my standby in that play with those old hags. Gretchen Wyler was not available.

Max von Essen looks consistently handsome on IG. Anyone know him?

R480, I used to live across the street from him and stood directly behind him in line once at the grocery store. He's very handsome in person, too.

Andrew Burnap, who appeared last season in "The Inheritance," is a hottie. Any dish on him?

Why are you changing the subject to Andrew when I just changed the subject to Max?

I mean, Andrew Burnap is cute, but the hottest man in The Inheritance was obviously Tony Goldwyn. That lucky, elderly wife of his!

I don't know if she always did this, but the night I saw Network, Tatiana Maslany full-on and unmistakably grabbed his crotch through his slacks.

I don't get the Tik Tok Ratatouille thing. The LA Times actually wrote an in depth article about it. I refuse to give attention to anything having to do with Tik Tok. People have such short memories. Tik Tok is the same fucking thing as Vine.

Why didn't Tommy Tune work on Broadway again after the early 90s? It's not like dance-driven shows ever went away entirely.

I'm watching an old TV movie from early 1980 complete with commercials and I swear I just saw a young Tovah Feldshuh in a Duncan Hines Deluxe II ad. I tried to find it on its own on YouTube but no dice.

It would be very difficult indeed to match Kerr and Brynner with anyone on the NY stage now. Those two are legendary.

Broadway 2021: What To Expect When New York Turns The Lights Back On:

[quote]Why didn't Tommy Tune work on Broadway again after the early 90s? It's not like dance-driven shows ever went away entirely.

Some have said that personal issues at the time negatively impacted his career. Are you wondering why he didn't continue to work as a director, or as a performer, or both? FWIW, as a director, his shows weren't necessarily "dance driven."

Would you agree that they were "staging driven"?

Yes, I'd agree they were staging driven. The way I would phrase it is that Tune's shows, such as NINE and GRAND HOTEL, had a lot of great musical staging, if not necessarily a whole lot of dance. But I'm still not sure what your point is, and my point is that I'd heard his career died out due to personal issues. I don't think I should be more specific than that, because it's all conjecture rather than being based on any hard evidence I'm privy to.

I agree his personal issues should remain just that, r492. I'm not r486, btw. I was just pointing out that the staging (and look) of the shows is where you saw his signature (I'm not discounting his choreography). I find NINE and GRAND HOTEL such hollow musicals and it's his staging and choice of designers that gave them the runs they had.

The real takeaway I got from Jesse's review of RATATOUILLE is that he doesn't know the difference between IN THE HEIGHTS and A CHORUS LINE.

R493, I largely agree with you. I personally wouldn't describe NINE or GRAND HOTEL as "hollow" musicals, and I would say there is a lot of good writing in both of them. But I think both shows also have some flaws in the writing, and I do agree that neither one of them would probably have run anywhere near so long if it weren't for the brilliant staging. (For what it's worth, I think many people share this opinion, especially critics.)

Whatever Tune's personal issues, I wish him well. I met him several years back and he is the nicest, sweetest man.

This is the gossip thread, so any gossip on Tommy is totally allowed.

I don't know if hollow was the right word, r495, but they leave me cold. I think it's the properties as opposed to the writing. I don't really care about Guido and his women issues. And the musical Grand Hotel has the same issues as the movie (I haven't read the book). The two sympathetic characters are supporting and walk away with the show. I saw GH in previews. It was almost immediately apparent that Jane would get a Tony nomination. By the end of Take a Glass Together, it was apparent that Jeter would win. I also think it's Mrs. Steele's best performance in the movie.

It’s interesting that Tune had year long tours in Birdie and Dr Doolittle but didn’t bring either to NY. Maybe he didn’t like that pressures that come along with mounting a show on broadway and preferred touring.

[quote]Maybe he didn’t like that pressures that come along with mounting a show on broadway and preferred touring.

He was planning to open "Busker Alley" in New York. That didn't work out very well for him, though.

Didn't the Tune-directed BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE GOES PUBLIC, which was a mega-flop in 1994, have something to do with him turning his back on Broadway? I saw it and all I remember thinking was that it was one of the crassest and tackiest musicals I had ever seen. And I LOVED the original BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE. Now THAT show was wonderfully staged. I dread to think what a Rob Ashford-directed version of it will be like if that ever gets off the ground.

If Ashford does WHOREHOUSE after the SUNSET BOULEVARD movie, you can be sure Charlie Williams will be in it, despite being too old to play a high schooler.

Gasp, how IS Charlie Williams surviving?

The "Whorehouse" revival is dead in today's WOKE era. The only way to do it would be to stage in an alley and have all the ladies sticking heroin up their bums.

The LA Times published a second article today about the Ratatouille Tik Tok musical, calling it the future of theater.

Lee Breuer has died.

I know this the Theatre Gossip thread, but if you're looking for a great read during these sheltered Covid times, pick up a copy of Vicki Baum's novel Grand Hotel and see where it all started. There's a new paperback edition published by NYRB.

Wonderful writing, all far sexier and explicit than the film or the musical; there are lots of descriptions of Flaemmchen's (Joan Crawford/Jane Krakowski) extra-curricular activities and the naked muscular body of the young Baron (John Barrymore/David Carroll) and background stories of all the other main characters. Best selling 1920s author Vicki Baum was actually brought to Hollywood from Berlin to write the MGM screenplay. If you enjoyed Amor Towles' A Gentleman in Moscow, read the progenitor that is Grand Hotel.

Lee Breuer croaked? God, his productions were pretentious. And boring as hell.

I was forced to go see The Warrior Ant at BAM as an NYU freshman drama major for a class. Eight of us dragged ass up to Brooklyn and bought student tickets, which were in the balcony closest to the third rung of Heaven and sat in these Nazi barber chairs trying to make sense of and stay awake through this massive piece of shit. After the fifteenth hour, I threw in the towel and left. And we sure gave our teacher hell the next week.

Ha. Breuer had a child named Lute. What an ass.

He had five children named Clove, Lute, Alexander, Mojo, and Wah. How Alexander lucked out, we'll never know.

There is a six-hour DVD documentary about Breuer's rehearsals for Lear. The actors start magnificently, but you see how Bruer slowly drains their performance of everything dynamic and interesting. Also, he recounts half baked theories that he claims he got from scholars. (For example, the fool and Cordelia were both played by Shakespeare's lover.)

No fan of Breuer's but I'm intrigued by his theory about Cordelia and the Fool, who would have originally been played by a beautiful boy.

How tragic that we have no records of those original performances of all of Shakespeare's play or much about his life. Or if he really wrote those plays (I'm a bit of a doubter).

Is *Week-end at the Waldorf* to *Grand Hotel* what *The Opposite Sex* is to *The Women*?

I know this may be blasphemy to some but Sunset Boulevard does have some good music in it

I don't disagree with you, r515. But I think it's in service to a piece that doesn't really work as a musical.

oh Christ, no....no....no....not back to Sunset Boulevard. Let it die.

O.K., well....uh ....whatever.

Teresa Brewer's original version is FAR superior. I wonder if she ever tread the boards....

R513, many think that Cordelia and the Fool were doubled, but Breuer did not present the idea that they were played by Shakespeare's lover as some settled piece of scholarship, not as his own baseless theory.

Anyone who dealt with him knows what a asshole he was. And his Lear had the very best American stage actors of the time, and misused them in a tedious production with interminable scene changes that showed a lack of basic competence in organizing stage movement.

Thanks r507 just ordered it — from a local bookstore!

[quote]Didn't the Tune-directed BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE GOES PUBLIC, which was a mega-flop in 1994, have something to do with him turning his back on Broadway?

I'm sure that had a LOT to do with it, even if we don't know the specifics. Rumor was that Tune was having personal challenges at the time, again I don't want to say more because it's all hearsay.

I will say, he does seem to be kind of a weird bird, not always the most sincere, honest person. I remember what I think was his first project in NYC after the WHOREHOUSE GOES PUBLIC debacle, a more-or-less one man show at what was then called the Little Shubert Theater. The show was fun enough, but it got terrible publicity for Tune putting a plant in the audience and pretending it was his old drama teacher, or something ridiculous like that. The problem was that it wasn't done as a lighthearted joke, he REALLY pretended it was someone from his past, and he made a huge deal of it during the show. So when word got out that it was all a set-up, the critics and audiences were not pleased,

I do not know what personal problems Tune has, but if the rumors about his drug addiction were true they were probably related to that.

Part of what hurt Tune was that he spent so much time acting like "Mr. Eccentric Nice Guy" while behaving like a shark. Nothing he did was that bad, so if he had been less fake he probably would have gotten the support that he needed to get over the rough spot and go on with his career. As it was, few were willing to extend themselves for him.

Watching clips from Spider Woman, I have to admit that she is way too young for the role, but CZJ could play a mean Spider Woman. In maybe 50 years, she will be the right age.

If that, r524.

BarBara Luna would have made the perfect Spider Woman back in the day.

A Cassie for the ages, that one, r526.

Charlie Williams just got back from Australia, just moved into a bigger apartment, and continues to troll 9th Avenue. With all that "Frozen" money, Charlie is doing just dandy.

And Dandy is doing Charlie.

Well, SOMEBODY better.

Have to say, all this "mystery" surrounding the allusions to Tommy Tune's troubles, are making me imagine much worse than what the reality was (or is?).

Read his (unreadable) autobiography....

Doesn't he talk about getting hand job from a geisha or something in it? Not gonna read it.

Someone once told me that his bf was in My One and Only and Twiggy was in tears backstage telling everybody that Tune, with no warning, wouldn’t speak to her or have anything to do with her personally. He apparently freaked out that they were viewed in the media as a partnership after the show became a big hit and he needed to break away from that perception. Twiggy was heartbroken. Tune was a cold hearted bastard.

Do you think he's hung in proportion to his height?

Not that I had much use for him before, but Charlie Williams traveling to Australia during a pandemic makes me think even less of him.

[quote]Read his (unreadable) autobiography....

I didn't read it, but someone I know who did said Tommy's beauty tips included using cum as a moisturizer.

[quote]Tommy's beauty tips included using cum as a moisturizer.

You mean it's not?

Sorry, R531, I was alluding to the rumors of a drug problem. I didn't want to come right out and say that, but now that someone else has, there you have it.

[quote]Part of what hurt Tune was that he spent so much time acting like "Mr. Eccentric Nice Guy" while behaving like a shark. Nothing he did was that bad, so if he had been less fake he probably would have gotten the support that he needed to get over the rough spot and go on with his career. As it was, few were willing to extend themselves for him.

Of course I'm not sure, but I think there's a lot of truth to this. I have no personal knowledge of shark-like behavior by Tune, but I always thought he came across as very fake and insincere. I don't think anyone believed it was really an injury that caused him to drop out of BUSKER ALLEY and resulted in that show closing out of town.

I went to a cattle-call audition for the movie version of "Best Little Whorehouse" and was seen by Tommy Tune, who was originally hired to direct it. I guess that didn't work out for him.

[quote]I went to a cattle-call audition for the movie version of "Best Little Whorehouse" and was seen by Tommy Tune, who was originally hired to direct it. I guess that didn't work out for him.

I did not know that. Are you sure he was originally hired to direct? Or maybe just to choreograph the movie?

[quote] I don't think anyone believed it was really an injury that caused him to drop out of BUSKER ALLEY and resulted in that show closing out of town.

I did... up until about 4 minutes ago.

[quote]I did not know that. Are you sure he was originally hired to direct? Or maybe just to choreograph the movie?

According to Wikipedia, Larry King and Pete Masterton were originally going to write the script and Masterton and Tommy Tune were to direct the film together. Universal reportedly got nervous about using first-time directors and ended up replacing Masterton and Tune with Colin Higgins.

Thanks, R543. I can understand them not wanting to have two first-time film directors, but then why didn't they hire Higgins and Tune to co-direct? That probably would have been the best decision, although, that said, I wouldn't say that the choreography is the biggest flaw in the WHOREHOUSE movie.

Because Higgins had directed two huge movies and why the fuck would he want to share credit with anyone?

[quote]Higgins had directed two huge movies and why the fuck would he want to share credit with anyone?

Why? Because he hadn't yet directed a musical. There was honorable precedent for co-director credit on musicals, for example, several films co-directed by Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly, not to mention WEST SIDE STORY, co-directed by Robert Wise and Jerome Robbins. So there's no need for you to use four-letter words and to be belligerent about my post, you nasty bitch.

Anyway, if Higgins had refused to consider co-director credit, then maybe Tune could have been hired and credited just as choreographer. If Tune had any sense and his ego had permitted, he would have/should have jumped at that opportunity, as he too had never before directed OR choreographed a movie musical.

In any case, when Higgins was hired to direct, I imagine it was contractually not to co-direct.

And I'm guessing Tune was simply NOT asked to choreograph. Often in cases when people are let go, the producers and new creative team like to make a clean sweep, for better or worse.

[quote] So there's no need for you to use four-letter words and to be belligerent about my post, you nasty bitch.

MARY!

[quote] Why? Because he hadn't yet directed a musical. There was honorable precedent for co-director credit on musicals, for example, several films co-directed by Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly, not to mention WEST SIDE STORY, co-directed by Robert Wise and Jerome Robbins.

Yeah, 20 years prior and in movies that required dance to tell the story. By the cutthroat '80s, no self-respecting Hollywood director was going to share credit, especially with someone who has zero film experience, unless it's absolutely necessary (i.e. he's not up to the job.) Kelly had directed plenty, and if I remember correctly, Jerome Robbins botched things so badly on the set that he was fired off the film midway through (but still retained credit and collected his Oscar). So no, it wasn't a precedent that anyone would willingly go into. Higgins was perfectly able to handle the directing chores with a competent choreographer and DP. If you want to go after someone for a poorly directed film musical, try Sidney Lumet for The Wiz. It was staged and shot abysmally. And he had Oswald Morris as his DP, who'd won an Oscar for shooting Fiddler.

In the end, it didn't really matter who directed it since it was Burt, Dolly and the word Whorehouse. It was going to be a big hit no matter what, and it was.

Robbin's participation in WSS was considered such a debacle that no one would look to that as a model. He put the film so far behind schedule (driving up costs) that he was fired after working on (I believe) only two numbers.

Miss Thigpen

Yayyyyy! The VD Polka!!!

[quote]According to Wikipedia, Larry King and Pete Masterton were originally going to write the script

I think you need to make it clear that it was Larry L. King, and not the broadcaster. (And it's MASTERSON.)

Thank you, r553!

When the god-awful tour of "Whorehouse" with Ann Margaret went out, I was working press in a touring theatre. I found Larry L. King's book on the making of "Whorehouse" and its a real scorcher. He's brutal on Tommy Tune in particular. When I mentioned I had read it to the show's national press person there was a loooooooooooong pause and then I was told in uncertain to never, never, NEVER mention that book again.

According to several original cast members, Tommy was high every day throughout rehearsals for NINE. The cast came up with a lot of what went into the show and Tommy later claimed credit for everything, even though he couldn't have remembered anyway.

[quote] its a real scorcher. He's brutal on Tommy Tune in particular.

Any details?

Danny Burstein on the Devastating Loss of His Wife, Fellow Broadway Star Rebecca Luker (Guest Column):

I don't think I'm up to reading that, r558.

R558. Read it when you’re ready. It’s such a lovely tribute. But reading about the start of her illness and how it swiftly progressed is devastating. God bless them both.

I forced myself to read R558. Thank you for sharing that. Tragic and sad, but so full of love! With all of her commercial recordings and the many, many bootlegs of her concerts and other performances we have a tremendous legacy from Rebecca. She will never be forgotten.

Marion Ramsey has died. No mention here of her role of Prissy in the musical version of Gone With the Wind.

Mean Girls officially not returning

I don't think anyone on DL will miss Mean Girls.

Not at all, but it's still upsetting that yet another show has shuttered due to COVID.

Everybody take a 6 minute gloom and doom break and escape...

Thank you r566.

You have absolutely NO idea how much I needed that.

Oh, I love those. I must have watched the first one he did (to Footloose) a dozen times.

You're welcome, r567. I just ran across it and it's really therapeutic right now, isn't it?

I’m glad Mean Girls is toast. One less shit show clogging up a Broadway theatre. Maybe when it finally reopens Broadway won’t be catering to 13 year old girls and fat tourists from Ohio.

Yes, I'm sure a year or more without making money is just the kind of thing that will convince producers to stage real art rather than commercial stuff.

In light of yesterday's events, can I suggest that the first thing on Broadway when the lights come back on should be a no-holds barred production of Brecht's The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui? You know, the one about the rise of the Chicago gangster with parallels to the Third Reich. Come on, Sam Mendes.

R571, my first reaction to your comment was "spot on." But the counter-argument is that, when Broadway first comes back, the tourist audience will not immediately return. So producers are going to have to cater to what's left of the NYC audience and may therefore present at least somewhat more stimulating, challenging fare than the jukebox musicals, brainless musical bios, kiddie shows, etc. that are designed to appeal to the largest possible audience. Some people think the first shows back will be the limited-run productions by institutional theaters like Lincoln Center Theater, Manhattan Theatre Club and the Roundabout. We shall see.

R572, are you aware that that play was produced Off-Broadway in December 2018 by CSC, with Raul Esparza starring?

So sad to read about the passing of Marion Ramsey. While many remember her for EUBIE or her POLICE ACADEMY films, I will always remember her as Jeanette in RACHAEL LILY ROSENBLOOM. She had a fabulous voice and stopped the show singing "We'll Be There." She was a real trooper, and as far as I was concerned, she walked away with the show. She will be missed.

There's nothing wrong with "commercial stuff" on Broadway, but must it all be geared to teenagers?

I began seeing Broadway shows when I was a teenager (Baker Street 1965) and I loved being exposed to sophisticated and adult material. Lucky enough to see Funny Girl, Hello Dolly, Golden Boy, Mame, Fiddler, Sweet Charity, The Apple Tree and so many other smart "commercial" shows that didn't talk down to me and showed me worlds I didn't know. And even the shows with lots of kids in them like Oliver, were actually based on reputable, thrilling sources, not mediocre 1990s movies.

Rant over.

I want to bum you.

Ditto, r566. Those videos are good for the soul.

Don't forget Prissy in Gone With the Wind, r574.

These are just so great...

I wasn't, R573, and that was a good start, but it needs to be a focal point, and ideally tour the country. Possibly starring Alec Baldwin.

Ya know what'll bring 'em in?

Let's hope those tattoos were temporary...

They were permanent, r582...

So is Telly Leung presenting his hole on an OnlyFans page yet?

[quote] She was a real trooper

Oh, dear--unless she was in the Highway Patrol.

I don't know her, r585.

There's even a song about her in a Broadway show!

Anyone watch this tonight?

Miss Ramsey...

🦗🦗This 🦗🦗 thread. 🦗🦗

So, what shall we call #410?

something with sex [italic]please[/italic].

How about Theatre Gossip #410: More Sex, Please, We're Not British?

Bajour! Bajour! Toujours Bajour!

New thread.

Let’s wrap this up

I love Charlie Williams.

I love Charlie Williams.

[quote]Bajour! Bajour! Toujours Bajour!

L'amour, l'amour!

And off to #410.