WHET Kim Hughes?

Just watched today's reunion with Laura Wright and heard the Frank Grillo mention. She says he didn't want to kiss her because Wendy was on set and it would get uncomfortable. She says that Wendy was his wife but she wasn't - the Hart/Cassie story started in late 1997 and went into 1998 so Frank/Wendy WERE together in real life but not married yet. Wendy couldn't take it when he had any sort of romantic scenes with anybody and had breakdowns on set about it.

The gist - her memories about him don't seem to be warm and fuzzy.

What did she say more often? “Kiddo” or “toots”?

We go live to Kim whooping Susan's ass.

Even if she WAS wearing a tablecloth at the time Kim still LOOKS GOOD doing it

R2 I think "kiddo."

She saved "toots" for special occasions.

My guess is kiddo.

What was the deal with Brad Hollister? He wasn’t attractive but he had the Stewart sisters fighting over him

Laura comes across as really annoying. She seems like one of those people who talks over everyone and takes over the conversation.

R5 before my time but yes, he was a little rough looking

My favorite target of "kiddo" speeches was Barbara. Kim was the ONLY one who could really put Barbara in her place.

[quote] Even if she WAS wearing a tablecloth at the time Kim still LOOKS GOOD doing it

Kim was always dressed to the nines, draped in fur for the chilly Oakdale winters, probably some Barbara Ryan originals. I loved Kim’s jewelry and her haircut. Her character had great style.

R3 This clip is SO GOOD. Thank you!!!!

Frank had a scene with Beth Chamberlin from GL on Billions this week and he seemed very pleased during the scene. Beth even alluded in one of Alan’s chats that he was very pleasant to her and they talked quite a bit. I don’t think he really hated his time doing a soap opera as it put him on the map but I think he was probably miserable because being with Wendy and all the drama around that probably made this shit uncomfortable for him. And I don’t believe Wendy was that bad on set.

Speaking of Beth, if GL was this great set as everybody says it is, who was mean to Judi Evans after her Emmy win, GL’s first for acting? Beth was insanely popular and had tons of screen time plus was dating a producer or director who apparently made her miserable after awhile.

The Soap Opera (Digest) Awards folks/Digest editors nominated BOTH Hays and Masters during this period. Plus, Hubbard, I believe.

I think McKinsey got a nod, too.

P&G was on fire around this time. I had to watch every day.

Alas, all these votes must have canceled each other out among the P&G soap fans.

Somehow Finola Hughes (Anna, GH) won Best Actress that year.

She showed up to accept dressed casually and said she had just come to the show (shot on a Saturday) from the studio -- "Gloria's back" she quipped.

Years later, Gloria got a last word in with Finola asking her if she'd liked the scenes she'd just shot. "Yes, Gloria, I did like them."

Gloria replied: "Good. They were your last ones. You're done."

Hot stud Bob Hughes (said by no one ever) had all the ladies of Oakdale fighting for over him. Kim was his 5th wife.

Bob was not to be out done by Oakdale’s community dick and number 1 hot stud John Dixon, married 8 or 9 members of the cast and fucked others, including Emma Snyder. Everyone wanted a piece of Dr Dixon.

Yes Oakdale was a tragic town.

[quote]Hot stud Bob Hughes

[italic]Listen kiddo...[/italic]

Don H was no great stud but handsome in a generic sort of way, as 60s soap actors needed to be,

But I always figured he was probably carrying a big slab between his legs. He got a woman 30 years younger to marry him, so he had something going for him!

Oops, 15ish years younger, not 30.

I know the title is about Kim that doesn’t mean we have to talk excessively about her or ATWT. Lol

I remember Kim Hughes when she was known as "Gem", not a porn actress as the name suggests, but an Empath on an episode of the original Star Trek series.

It's strange to think she's 86 years old.

Ok do you whores have to perv on Bob Freaking Hughes? Have you no sense of decency at long last?

Santos Ortega is more my type.

Kathy's marriage to Glenn Ford was quite rocky.

"I know the title is about Kim that doesn’t mean we have to talk excessively about her or ATWT."

There is literally nothing I'd rather talk excessively about. Her hair color looks so fabulous at R3.

Lisa's meddling was wonderful in this story. After this, she ran over to Tom's office and started in on him. Some ATWT fans complain about Lisa "always being stuck in other people's stories" during the Marland era, but IMO, that is where Fulton really shined.

I used to switch over from AW to ATWT to check out the hot Dusty and Paul. ATWT always hired really hot guys.

[quote]ATWT always hired really hot guys.

Having a gay HW (Marland) and a gay EP (Robert Calhoun) likely had a lot to do with that.

[quote] I know the title is about Kim that doesn’t mean we have to talk excessively about her or ATWT.

Watch it, toots!

I see you Mike Jubinville.

R24, Eileen Fulton appears in the recent Elaine Stritch biography.

When Stritch starred in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, Fulton played Honey.

They remained close friends for years.

Somebody told me yesterday that some Y&R cast were on GL for its last week. True? And why?

R30, Guiding Light?

I think Katherine and Michael were on but forget why

Jeanne Cooper and Christian Le Blanc had cameo appearances in the final week of GL.

I don't think they had any lines. Just a quick shot or two of them in the crowd at the wedding of Billy and Vanessa (?)

They both spoke a little bit but not much.

I'm not sure why either were there, other than they wanted to show support, I guess.

that's fine that Cooper and LeBlanc did that, and I have no idea if they were paid scale or not, but I'd have preferred GL blown the roof off and used the money or air time time to invite back Carl Evans, Mary Kay Adams, Lenore Kasdorf, Elvera Roussel, Kathleen Cullen, John Wesley Shipp, and have shown a photo or flashback of Jerry verDorn's Ross and Charita Bauer's Bert Bauer (the same surname was a coincidence!)

As on fire as GL was in the mid 1980s, the show was calling for certain people to return: Hope, Rita, Amanda...

Kim Hughes was FIRED from every out of town Broadway show she was in

Her dreams of being a leading lady on Broadway never came true, so she made her money slumming on soaps

R36 = Marsha Talbot

Cooper and Le Blanc plus many others wanted to honor the Great GL.

Have Kim and Ellen caught up in age now that the show is off the air for 10 years? Or did Ellen actually stay back in the race and is now officially three years younger than her?

They should’ve brought Marsha Talbot back for a short story in the 90s so she could terrorize Bob and Kim. Have her paroled, and then kidnap Chris or something.

[quote] Years later, Gloria got a last word in with Finola asking her if she'd liked the scenes she'd just shot. "Yes, Gloria, I did like them." Gloria replied: "Good. They were your last ones. You're done."

That was out of spite because Finola was leaving as she landed an ABC Primetime series - The highers up at ABC ordered Gloria to wrap up Finola's storyline. Gloria was pissed because she doesn't like being told what to do (she is Gloria Monty after all)

So she took her anger out on Finola. However Finola had the last laugh as she was going to leave anyways, and she only stayed on GH to get Green Card, which she got. And then Gloria got fired herself within a year.

So it all worked out

R41 Ironic that Monty, who revitalized "GH" when it was going to be cancelled in 1978 was a complete disaster upon her return. Tony Geary bombed as Bill Eckert with multiple personalities, and most of the other relatives were boring. I did like Carol Lawrence as Angela, especially when she left as a house frau and came back as a fashionista. Sly Eckert had promise, especially since they made him Lucky's first friend in Port Charles, and he could have stuck around long term had they written the story better.

R35 I don't disagree but I think most of those who came back at the end either worked for scale or did it for free.

OMG! Prayers for Judi!

R33 Right. They appeared in the two wedding/reception episodes. In the wedding episode, nothing of note. You could have missed them sitting in the fourth or third row. In the reception episode, they each had a line with Vanessa, who recognized Cooper's character as some old acquaintance, whom she was surprised to see.

It should be noted that they didn't play their Y&R characters. It was implied that "Cecelia" (Cooper) was there with her young gigolo "Justin" (LeBlanc), who spoke his line in Italian: "Molto bella."

Alan, please try and interview Judi.

Yes all the original 4Muskateers

OMG Judi has had the worst year. She’s tough. She would do an interview with Alan.

The deplorables at Soap Opera Network (SON) are up in arms because a newish poster dared to cll them out on their bullshit.

R49 What’s the scoop there?

Over time Kathy's eye sunk into her head.

Don't talk to the trolls, r50.

Do you remember your first day?

Please don't talk about other message boards here, and don't respond to those who do.

I don't say this to be bossy, nor out of a need to be a control freak, but please understand, when it happens, a few of those folks are then encouraged to come here to continue that discussion and stir shit up.

We don't want that energy here. Similar energy is what got soap threads deleted years ago. Block/FF/delete.

I care about, well, most of you enough, but honestly, my bag of fucks about who said what to whom on the other boards is barren.

Thanks to The Virus, with no shows in production, CBS Soaps In Depth has folded. Women's World (same publisher) will be sent until subscriptions expire.

That happened a few weeks ago, R55. They were really on thin ice anyway - so little content for two CBS soaps and an ABC one (I don't think they'd been doing an NBC one for a while, but I could be wrong).

I really think Digest is going to go monthly one of these days, or fold completely. Or it will somehow be subsumed into one of the tabloids as a section.

I won't miss Digest. In the heyday of my soaps watching (90s) SOD never featured P&G shows. P&G stars only appeared on the subscription covers, not the newsstand copies.

I was always a Soap Opera Weekly person.

Digest had a strong presence on AOL so we read Digest. Allyson Rice-Taylor, Yvonne Perry, and others often joined fans in AOL chatrooms.

I spoke with both Judi Evans and Beth Chamberlin in a chat room set up by a fan club president whom I befriended.

What caused the soap mag editor (Carolyn?) to be ousted?

I have copies of soap opera digest spanning over 20 years (1981 - 2004)

I love reading synopsis of past soaps, it is like reading a romance novel.

I can't believe it's legal to work for free with the unions, but I can't say I wouldn't do it (appear for free) if I were in their shoes.

ALL them man power should have been put into getting the faves back. Like India. Von Halkein.

GL got more back than others, which I applaud them for.

As for Gloria, yeah, she sucked when she came back to GL circa 1990, 1991; the reason is she didn't have Doug Marland with her at the time. Or Pat Falken Smith.

Gloria re-did the sets and sped up the pacing and did some great casting when she was producer and none of that is going to make a difference in the ratings long term IF the writing isn't there. GH would have been saved with Doug and a different prodoucer-- but if Gloria brought the writers she had in 1990 with her in 1978 the show would have been canceled.

Doug went to GL after GH and he made that show a top 5 drama in the ratings. Maybe even top 4? He was magnificent.

Soap Digest should have gone to biweekly or even monthly in 2012 following the cancellation of OLTL and AMC.

By the time there were only four shows on the air, it was ridiculous to put out a weekly soap magazine. Every two weeks would have been sufficient.

R61, it was budget, I believe, but her ousting got ugly.

A defunct site that reported on the comings and goings (ironically) of folks in the magazine biz picked up on it. Then, one poster wrote they'd had a back experience working there. Then, another, then another. Jr. publicists who didn't have good experiences working with her started posting. Then folks started using names of real people, but it was pretty clear they weren't the actual people.

It went on for over 2000 (!!!) posts and then it got shut down or people stopped posting.

How embarrassing for all involved. It exposed everyone on all sides as a bunch of jr. high mean girls. I don't know if those concerned at the magazine were genuinely stunned to think that's how they were thought of by the industry and ex-employees or if they really had no idea how unprofessional her behavior was. Or if they knew and were just pissed off that word was out.

*back = bad

Yes. We have posted excerpts from that very long Hinsey thread. (The site it was on escapes me, and as mentioned above, is now kaput.). It was very funny for a short time, and then it just sort of became overwhelming.

Hinsey is proficient as a weekly columnist, but based on many of the comments from that thread, I hope she isn't in a position to manage anyone or make editorial decisions outside of her opinion columns.

[quote] In the heyday of my soaps watching (90s) SOD never featured P&G shows.

I remember the better part of a year being one DAYS cover after another. I think that was a Corday mandate.

Michael Park - think he's ever slept with a dude?

[quote] As for Gloria, yeah, she sucked when she came back to GL circa 1990, 1991; the reason is she didn't have Doug Marland with her at the time. Or Pat Falken Smith.

What Gloria had was her sister Norma Monty being head-writer - when Gloria got fired, Norma got turfed as well.

R55 Just the print edition, I believe. It's my understanding that CBS SID will still be online. Maybe not as much original content, but for instance, during daytime's hiatus due to COVID, they've been complementing the classic episodes being broadcast with "Whatever Happened to ... " type features that relate to some of the bygone characters that have been appearing in these episodes. So for example, Y&R just had an episode where we saw Gina Roma (Patty Weaver) and they put this article up.

I used to watch ATWT in the 70s, and I always thought Kim was so beautiful.

My favorite storyline with her was when she go caught conked in the head during a tornado and lost her memory, just before she was going to marry Dan after she left evil John. Then John came in and convinced her that she loved him and that they were still married. I think it took about a year before her memory finally came back.

R68, Corday doesn't dictate the covers -- sales do.

When Days of our Lives would be on Digest's cover sales would skyrocket.

Throughout the 80s obscure couples would get covers (like ATWT's Josh and Betsy; GL's Roxie and Johnny) but mags like soaps are a business. You have to try to make money.

[quote] When Days of our Lives would be on Digest's cover sales would skyrocket.

I think you are exaggerating. And a magazine that keeps telling a large portion of the potential readership that they are not interested in serving them creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Personally, I"m a P&G fan, a Doug Marland fan, a Pam Long fan....

I'm sadly not exaggerating; when the show had crappy numbers DAYS would still sweep the Soap Opera Digest Awards. Editors had to rig the categories (all three noms were CBS or all three were ABC or had NO DAYS contenders).

If other shows brought in the numbers the DAYS covers did then those shows would have had more covers. It's just business.

Reilly was PISSED at Digest back in the 1990s because he felt the show wasn't kissing his ass enough.

I do think that yes, in the end it's bad business to ignore the industry; that's why Digest would throw a bone to a B&B wedding or some other show that didn't bring in the numbers. They didn't want to piss off the whole business. But when your publisher is saying 'put days on the cover so we can make an extra truckload of cash' well, they're in a bind.

[quote] Corday doesn't dictate the covers

What I meant at R68, dear, was that Corday would play hardball with Digest. He would give them features, spoilers, etc but they had to put one of the DAYS money couples on the cover.

There was a long stretch where they did it, and another stretch where they revolted and Corday would not cooperate.

Same with Eric Braeden at Y&R, who still only speaks with Digest if he's guaranteed a cover.

[quote] And a magazine that keeps telling a large portion of the potential readership that they are not interested in serving them creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There's definitely a chicken or egg argument to be had, but around 1995, the covers for P&G shows went to an even lower number than they'd been in years prior, when they would at least be in the rotation. It's not a surprise that the last three hours shows standing are the ones that had the most covers over the years.

SOD has been doing a lot of Days covers lately, because they're the only show that's got anything new to cover .. lol!

Cuntess DiMera aka R77, first, you can drop the 'dear' shit.

This is a business. Corday would only have leverage over Digest if he had something Digest wanted. And he did -- access to covers that would sell the magazine. Same with Braeden; if his covers didn't sell, they'd say we don't need the interview that much b/c if it's contingent on him having a cover and that cover doesn't sell, then we don't need the interview.

If P&G had said you can't interview, oh, say Charles Keating unless you put Carl and Rachel on the cover, Digest would have said no thanks. Every show has to try to get pub and the lower rated soaps would take what they could get. DAYS actors usually won at the Digest Awards because readers of that mag were fanatical about the show.

The P&G shows -- which I'm a huge fan of -- didn't have that kind of pull. ATWT lucked out when Tom and Margo got the cover to the ballot issue one year and that won Margo's HIV rape Favorite Story. (A great night for Doug, who also got the Editors' Award; sadly, he died a week later. The mag made him happy, which was good.)

If those DAYS covers didn't sell, Digest simply wouldn't do them. If covers for LOVING or THE CITY did well, then those actors would have appeared a lot more often in the magazine.

Btw, it was the same with SID; the ABC issue ran Maurice and Vanessa (even when Brenda wasn't even on GH) because they sold.

It IS ironic now that DAYS is the last show standing with original content. Who knows how much longer Digest can hang in there. A) By the time the issue comes out, most of the news is old and B) Nobody can get to news stands anyway.

I watched some old 50s and 60s GL and the acting was top notch. I’ve watched a few movies from those years and thought the acting on GL was better.

The Days/Digest thing was a well known thing within the industry. I don't know what else to tell you.....

.....dear.

R81, I'm not saying it didn't exist. I was trying to explain why. It was mutually beneficial; Digest made tons of money off writing about DAYS and putting their stars on the covers.

DAYS, which couldn't get arrested at the Daytime Emmys throughout the 90s, swept the Digest awards.

And may all your Donalds end up with nothing but Joyce Colemans.

R82 I wasn't disputing the business reasoning. We are, as Mrs Slocombe would say, unanimous in that.

But Corday did push it a bit farther than "this is mutually beneficial between us and Digest" and it became acrimonious. It was unusual, then or now.

I think Reilly was behind some of that change in attitude - DAYS was clearly in a period where things were all clicking and working (this was circa 1997-98 when it happened). Any good PR team will try to influence what's said, but perhaps they felt with the rise in ratings and attention, they could take risks and try to put pressure to see what they wanted to see in print.

DAYS and GH always did sweep the Digest awards, any of the popular couple type awards, for sure.

And that same era was the era of the clone story on GL - which was a terrible story, but I remember it getting at least one cover (Weekly), so it did its job in getting eyeballs to the show.....

Thanks R83

R82/R84 Ha! Love that clip.

oh, Bev. She could do ANYTHING.

Have a lovely night!

u2 Bud

The Devil Wears Lane Bryant

R87 LOL! Yes, that was one of the funniest things to come out of that thread.

That's all I remember of it, r88.

I signed several posts on that thread "Frank Valentini's musky, straining overstuffed jockstrap" (or variations thereof) and then used it here. LOL

R90, He is a very sexy man. Whoever is sharing his bed is quite fortunate.

Mayra West & Michael Park will be doing Alan's reunion show on 6/26

I think you can still find that infamous Carolyn H. somewhere online.

It was filled with such glorious dirt.

I'll never forget it revealing that Stephanie Sloane had a casual FWB thing going on until he gave her Herpes.

[quote]I signed several posts on that thread "Frank Valentini's musky, straining overstuffed jockstrap" (or variations thereof) and then used it here. LOL

And in so doing, r90, you nearly succeeded in boring each and every one of us to death. NEOSSC *

R93 There were many items on that thread. Some really, really had to be taken with a grain of salt, but among the suggestions:

- Stephanie Sloane had either a fling or an obsession with Tom Eplin

- Carolyn had a thing for any number of men she propped up in the magazine frequently, especially Cam Mathison and Thorsten Kaye

- Ricky Paull Goldin and Rick Hearst were a couple

R64 After AMC and OLTL were cancelled, SOD began to provide more coverage of prime time soaps and the web series that featured a lot of daytime actors. And that move wasn't really new, since the magazine used to provide coverage of the main prime time soaps back in the Big 80s. Back then, they even provided summaries of them, just like with the daytime soaps. While the magazine is kinda thin, they don't need to limit themselves to the four daytime soaps, especially during this time of streaming and anytime watching.

R92 how can we watch the reunion show? Hope Barbara will be there :)

r97, do you subscribe to The Locher Room on youtube? Sign up using an email address you use regularly and they'll send you a reminder.

Alan Locher's reunions are always on his YouTube channel R97. Search for The Locher Room.

that thread exposed the bible of the industry -- supposedly staffed with all these thoughtful critics and insiders -- as a bunch of high schoolers and mean girls.

The problem was, there was no way to substantiate things.

Alan Carter, who's a great guy and had worked on soap coverage for years, did leave a few legit comments, but then others used his name to sign their posts. It was a free for all.

I seem to remember an entry with Solita Carrera asking if anyone had a cigarette.

well, that's a soap insider all right, R101

someone did a serious-ish assessment of this when it happened, I guess

ah, the old days of soap blogs and bloggers

This poster was right, I guess

The Falcon Crest thread made me look at the Wikipedia page for the show for a refresher.

I did not know Michael Swan was in the original pilot for the show!

About a year ago, after that Jossip website thread about Carolyn Hinsey came up in conversation here, I tracked down the Jossip thread on the Wayback Machine Internet Archive and then posted the link here. As I recall, it came up fairly easily when I searched for it.

I've just tried to find it on the Wayback Machine again and have been unsuccessful. Sorry. Don't know what I typed in a year ago that made it come up so easily.

If someone else wants to try to hunt it down, here are some info that may make the search easier. The thread on the Jossip site was officially called "Soap Opera Weekly Editor Fired" and was created in Aug 7, 2008.

The Jossip website no longer exists, so only place it will be is on the Wayback Machine. And the full thread is there. All 2,000+ replies. At least it was a year ago.

Amazing how programmed we are to expect certain things, R105. I found myself disappointed that "and Samantha Eggar as Maggie" was not accompanied by Eggar spinning to face the camera.

Liz, I have been reluctant to repost that thread. Various posters did so a few times, and people found it funny the first few times but the reaction was negative in later posts.

But yes, it can indeed be found in the Wayback Machine. There's one post that just mercilessly roasts Hinsey.

Damn, it does appear to have disappeared from even the Wayback Machine.

There are bits of it quoted here (go past the 400s in replies to see)

Fuck Kim!

The latest ATWT reunion with Hillary Bailey Smith, Gregg Marx, and Scott Bryce was a real treat. All three of them seem like lovely, down-to-earth people. Apparently Scott's 13-year-old son is so freakishly talented at basketball that colleges are already sniffing around, and Scott's whole life revolves around chauffeuring him to games now. He doesn't seem resentful of it, just kind of puzzled as to where it came from.

Gregg said some interesting stuff about growing up in the Marx family, like that he hardly even knew Graucho, because Graucho was on a whole different level than the rest of them.

And Hillary could not have been more complimentary towards Ms. Zenk, so......... LOL.

GL was snake bit from 92 on. A lot of shows have popular characters come back time and again played by the same actor or an actor they like. But guiding light lost Kimberly, Sherry, Bev all at one time. All as the ratings were rising fast even as high as #2 for a few weeks. Then a self inflicting wound with killing off of Maureen without a Matriarch backup. But then not being able to have Frank Beatty come back as Brent/ Marion. Or having Cynthia Watros reprise her role as Annie or getting a good recast for Annie. Lots of bad recasts. Not being able to find the right HW. Curlee and Long unwilling or unable to come back. Losing their wonderful writing team of 88-93. I look at the amount of actors the show had in the late 90s through the early 2000s who would go on to fame like Matt Bomer, Brittany Snow, Tammy Blanchard and many others and not be able to capitalize as much as they could have on all of that.

R112 I will have to catch up on that one, I forgot about it! HBS and Zenk had it out back in the day but perhaps bygones are now bygones.

[quote]Not being able to find the right HW. Curlee and Long unwilling or unable to come back. Losing their wonderful writing team of 88-93

I think part of it was money, and part was network influence.

For Curlee, she'd had a baby and didn't want to HW herself, but they were hacking at her budget, and I also think she wasn't exactly fond of Phelps.

Long was burned out and also was kinda done with CBS or P&G after they wouldn't let her add a Jewish family (this was the Matt Weiss business, slated to be a love interest for Harley.)

Ironically, Mallet was introduced at the end of Long's tenure and was, I think, supposed to be a short term role, and a potential love interest for Mindy. Nick, when they started thinking about bringing Irizarry back, was supposed to be paired with Harley. But Mallet and Harley changed that.

There was talk of bringing Lujack back. Vincent has confirmed this. Was any story leaked? Was a stumbling block Beth seeing as she just left the show with Phillip? It would be like GL to bring Lujack back and them write nothing about Beth even so much as call. “Omerguuurd you’re alive! Remember when you died in my arms and we were madly in love? Well, gotta go. I’m with Phillip now. Byeeeeeee “. When Lillian had breast cancer Beth didn’t return and I think they had one phone call or maybe just Lillian saying she spoke to Beth.

You also have to take into account the damage the OJ Trial did to soaps. Things were never the same after.

R117 I think that's overstated slightly, but if anything, it made networks realize that the soaps weren't the sacred cows they once thought they were.

The explosion of cable choices expanded so much around that time, where things over than infomercials were on the air, and that really had more to do with it....that, and women in the workforce.

[quote] Damn, it does appear to have disappeared from even the Wayback Machine.

Not for me. See if this works.

Ah! Thanks R119! You fixded our thread!

Yeah r119! Thanks.

How did you find it? What did you type in the search engine?

I went through the link in the old DL thread.

I'm perusing a bit of the thread and realized that as awful as the three Digest ladies were purported to be, Hinsey still has a column and Stephanie S is now EIC at Digest, so....the more things change the more they stay the same.

If you're going through the Jossip thread for the very first time, you'll definitely find some juicy gossip in there. Some really good insider info in there, especially early in the thread (the first 500-600 posts).

I certainly had fun reading that thread in real time back in 2008. And reading it again a year or so ago.

Keep in mind, however, that as the thread progressed, more people found out about it and lots of non-insiders (i.e, soap fans) started posting there and what they posted wasn't always true or entirely accurate. Likewise, some people with a vested interest in discrediting what was being said also started posting misinformation. So, by the time you get to the second half of the thread, read it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

R124 Perfectly stated, Liz!

Some of the gossip bits have lost their bite but the names remain humorous to me.

"Susan Piper, posting from hell!"

Back to the Locher Room with Scott Bryce Hillary B and Gregg Marx..I enjoyed it so much. Did Gregg Marx ever officially come out? And given all the ATWT love and his Emmy win why would he leave?

R127 I don't think Gregg ever really liked being NY based, and when he left he was still young enough to try to make a go of things in LA.

I was an OLTL/Y&R fan but enjoyed the heck out of that reunion.

Is Marx really gay???? I got that vibe but figured he was married to a woman.

Its very interesting that I never followed P&G soaps, at all (GL a little in the late 80's) but I love your P&G threads and so far my favorite Locher reunions have been this one and Elizabeth Hubbard/Martha Byrne (EXCELLENT!!!- Elizabeth Hubbard is a genius. The way she approaches life and the craft of acting, is inspiring on every level. Everybody should listen to this woman)

I have said it before, but you all set the standard for class in these P&G threads. It's just fun to read about these shows I am not familiar with.

R129 Yes, he really is gay. He certainly had chemistry w/female costars but he came out a while back.

And thanks! We try to keep it lively but classy here.

No one is going to answer my questions at r116?

Gregg Marx and HBS had so much chemistry-you felt they were a couple that were sexually attracted to each other. Scott Holmes ruined Tom for me-he became so stodgy, and that became worse when Ellen Dolan replaced HBS:

I loved Ellen as Margo but loathed Scott Holmes as Tom.

I likes Holmes on Ryan's Hope.

I did, too, but he was all wrong as Tom.

If they couldn’t keep Gregg Marx in 1987, who would have made a good Tom at that time?

Does anybody else remember those awful Scott Holmes commercials for ATWT?

[quote]If they couldn’t keep Gregg Marx in 1987, who would have made a good Tom at that time?

I'll throw Casey Biggs (who ended up playing Fenno on Ryan's Hope not longer after) out there. He was quite good-looking, a decent actor, and struck me as having a bit of that Deas "out of left field" energy (but thankfully dialed back). He certainly would have been watchable, and was in the right age range (same age as Marx).

This is very weird - there was once a blog post where Gregg Marx addressed being gay only once - he gave an interview to a blogger

But now the page has been removed, The blog still exists, but the page with the Gregg Marx interview where he talks about being gay has been removed

I even went to wayback and I can't even access the page anymore

That is strange

Here is the page where the interview was once was, now it is blank - if anyone wants to try to get a cache version, go for it.

Certainly Bryan Cranston (mentioned as auditioning) would have had some of that same Deas energy.

The guy from GL who auditioned (Harley Venton, who played Derek in the early 80s) would have been fine too.

Who else from that era? Hmm.......if Joe Breen hadn't been cast as Will at GL, he would have made a good Tom (and of course was later Lisa's son Scott).

Scott Holmes was just very NY and abrasive and very.....not any of the previous Toms. I could not see him as Bob or Lisa's son. He never convinced me that he was a child of either.

And yet they kept him to the very end. I have to think at a certain point, it was solely because he didn't want to leave and was OK with making a small amount of money. (I would be surprised if they were on contract in the last 5 years or so - possible, but wouldn't be surprised if they were NOT. If they were, it had to be a low $$$ for a twice a month guarantee.)

Scott Holmes was on The Locher Room and said he was extremely unhappy (and Ellen as well agreed) the last 10 years of ATWT

He was basically phoning it in, and if the show wasn't on its last legs, he would've quit. But he stayed because he felt it was important for the character to make it to the end, and for him to go down with the ship.

The money GL and ATWT made for P&G was staggering. They dominated ratings for 3 to 4 decades. You would think they’d treat them better.

Those shows were still making money at the end, even GL.

They just weren't making ENOUGH for either entity's liking.

[quote] Those shows were still making money at the end, even GL.

Guiding Light was losing affiliated and wasn't seen in some parts of the country

R144 Yes, we know and have discussed that at length.

Its margin of profit was very small, but even with a reduced audience, it was still making some money at the end. That is to say, the commercials sold by CBS still made more money than the expense of making the show.

R145 but they could MORE money at less cost by canning Guiding Light

R146 That's what they thought, but people aren't as devoted to tuning into Let's Make a Deal or The Talk. So they spend less to make less.

R141, If Scott could endure Liza during The Rink, he could endure anything.

They should have killed off Tom Hughes and brought back the amazing Scotty DeFreitas.

[quote] , but people aren't as devoted to tuning into Let's Make a Deal or The Talk

Those shows are still on the air, so they must be something right

R150 They're cheap.

R151 and producing a soap IS NOT - which is why they got cancelled

I’m not sure it was Holmes as much as the material he and Ellen Dolan were given after Doug Marland died. I don’t think he’s a bad actor and he seems serviceable enough they just weren’t given much after 93.

Looked at the Jean Kennedy Smith thread and she reminded me of Connie Ford in this photo.

Hogan Sheffer said somewhere that he just couldn't picture Tom and Margo (as played by Scott Holmes and Ellen Dolan) as a romantic couple.

I guess that's why he never wrote for the couple.

Scott Holmes was sort of like beige paint. Bland but non controversial, got the job done but wasn't terribly exciting.

Since I'd seen Ellen Dolan as Maureen on GL, I knew she was capable of much more than what they were giving her on ATWT post Marland.

But you saw that during the Margo rape story line R155. Both Ellen Dolan and Holmes were fantastic in that and in the subsequent AIDS storyline. It was all there. You can’t really call it ageism because Scheffer wrote for CZ and others. I think they kind of painted them into a dependable boring stable couple and left them there. Shame really.

Hogan did do a story for Ellen Dolan when she was shocked to discover she had HepC from her rape that was diagnosed

Kim may have hated Susan most but I remembered one of the soap blogs mentioning this scene.

It was towards the end but damn, it was good. Kim kinda said: I love you but I WILL kick your ass across town if you kill my son!

I said on another thread that a friend of mine with connections said that Goutman hated Scott Holmes and didn't want him appearing on the show but that after the negative reactions to recent firing and re-castings didn't want to actually fire Holmes. Goutman was hoping if he starved Holmes of screen time he would leave on his own. But Holmes just kept cashing the checks.

R159 that’s what Holmes more or less said.

Interesting that Goutman would hang on to Holmes after Goutman fired fan favorites Scott Bryce and Martha Byrne and replaced them with actors he could control.

Scott Bryce wasn't there very long and from Goutman's perspective was directly subordinate. Martha Byrne wasn't fired so much as they couldn't agree on a new contract.

I’m watching 1990 episodes on YouTube right now. Brock Lombard and Emily are planning a wedding, and I don’t think Brock is long for this world. Melanie Smith is great as Emily. I’m surprised she didn’t have a bigger career. I don’t think she did anything except for a few Seinfeld episodes.

I’m so impressed with how Marland slowly starts storylines. Susan has mentioned her back pain and is quietly seen in the background taking pills, but it will be a few more weeks before that storyline and her ensuing one night stand with Bob kick into high gear.

[quote] Melanie Smith is great as Emily

She said her least favorite person she worked with was Greg Beecroft (Brock Lombard) - she said he was a very weird man and working with him was like acting "alone"

[quote] Martha Byrne wasn't fired so much as they couldn't agree on a new contract.

It was a little more than that. The transcript of Martha's podcast was shared a few threads back, Goutman got very nasty and the whole thing turned ugly.

[quote] Goutman got very nasty and the whole thing turned ugly.

And the final insult was not inviting Byrne back for the final show

Goutman also got rid of John Bryggman as well to cut costs

Larry Bryggman

Was Goutman worse than the cuntbination of MADD and FMB? I had given up on the show except for Luke / Noah / Reid.

r167 We knew.

r165

do you know any of the details?

[quote] It was a little more than that. The transcript of Martha's podcast was shared a few threads back, Goutman got very nasty and the whole thing turned ugly.

Not arguing that it was not complicated. But very different from simply firing Holmes and hiring someone else to play Tom.

R169 The context was that Martha had given a lot to the show in the few years before she left. She willingly took a pay cut in the 60 percent range. She helped the writers, a lot, with historical details. She was a very big supporter of Goutman and company in the press.

At some point, Goutman started to be negative and combative to her and to many others. The sticking point for Martha in her contract is that she wanted to be guaranteed that she'd work as many days as she had the year before (which wasn't many, I think her guarantee was like 3 shows a month).

While we knew that part of the ending before - that instead of further negotiations, Goutman just put out a call for a recast - it had gone ugly before that, and she was very hurt. And I don't blame her.

Whoever mention Goutman's circles at CMU, I wish I could take a trip there and take a huge dump on them. Seriously.

Byrne: "Again, and I don’t really talk a lot about what happened behind the scenes for why that all actually happened. Yeah, was it a contract dispute? Ultimately is that what it ended up being? Yes. Was it a power struggle more on the other side? Yes. Okay. So, yeah, on paper that’s what it was, but it wasn’t. Why I don’t talk about it is because it’s very personal and it was very upsetting and I just couldn’t work there anymore. As time has gone by, I look back and I go, “Well, of course, you couldn’t.” I knew I couldn’t stay. I couldn’t stay there anymore and that was painful to come to that realization that I can’t come back here anymore. And yes, does it come down to a contract? But that’s how it started; it didn’t end that way…. I look at it now as like 99 percent of my time there was perfection and the one percent, the end sucked. And I have to focus on the 99 percent because what I’ve decided in my life [is] that if you focus on the things that person did that were the positives as opposed to what that negative was, you’ll feel better…. And I’ve kind of gotten to that kind of peace about that a long time ago. But at the time it’s very hard not to talk about it because people would want to know and I just didn’t want to talk about it because I couldn’t believe what was happening. I just couldn’t believe that this was the way I was being treated. It hurt. It was not nice. My husband was like, “You can’t stay there anymore.” I’m like, “I know I can’t stay here anymore.” It was very painful and very difficult to walk away, but I feel like if you stay you’re saying it’s okay, and it wasn’t okay…. There was an issue, but then it turned into something really dark and I didn’t like it. It was not nice and it was unpleasant. I wish it didn’t go down that road. Would I have done anything differently? I don’t think so because I don’t think we can live with that anyway. I feel like we have to, in the moment, certain things are what they are, right? The reality is what you’re dealing with. The retrospect is, what would you have done differently? Well, I don’t know the answer to that and I still don’t have the answer because it was presented to me in such a way that I had no choice. Does that make sense?"

I really like Martha Byrne.

And, although I was never a fan of Nancy St. Alban’s Michells, I liked her a lot on that Loving/GL reunion of Alan’s. She just seemed to have a very nice, pleasant, even soothing presence.

[quote]Whoever mention Goutman's circles at CMU, I wish I could take a trip there and take a huge dump on them. Seriously.

I am that person. I have ground my heel into his circles a number of times. Someone who posts regularly here actually works there, though not in the drama department as far as I know. Maybe she can take a shit on his circles sometimes. Or JFP's, for that matter (though I am not one of her haters).

R173 I think I would have liked her more as anyone but Michelle.

She was like a later era John Bolger. Talented, interesting, but in the wrong role.

I liked Nancy St. Alban as well

Too bad she can't find another soap role

John Bolger and Judi Evans had no chemistry. I loved Phillip and Beth but I was worried when they paired them up after Lujack died. He seemed into it but Judi didn’t. Then she left and Beth was presumed dead.

Wasn't John Bolger related to Ray Bolger?

[quote] I was worried when they paired them up after Lujack died.

They weren't paired immediately after Lujack died - they went with a Beth/Jackson pairing for awhile. That didn't work. But then they went back to Beth/Phillip but only because Judi Evans was leaving and by having Beth "die" it would launch Philip into a new storyline.

I forget about Beth/ Jackson. We’re they actually together or was it him forcing himself on her? I could have tolerated Judi with John but she needed to step up. I’m sure it was that she was leaving.

Jackson Freemont was one of those characters who lingered around but served no purpose and wasted our time. Lesley Ann Warren was another.

R178, John Bolger is the great nephew of Ray Bolger, who played the scarecrow in "The Wizard of Oz".

Jackson Fremont was played by Elizabeth Taylor's son. That's why he lingered.

I generally have a thing for British men, but Michael Wilding, who played Jackson, was rather unfortunate looking, and the character was like a cliche of what Americans thought about Brits.

He was not sexy. And he was creepy about Beth.

This winner, not sexy?

/s

Beth was insanely popular. She had been in 2 super couples in 3 years. She was front burner nonstop. It was almost the Beth show but it was still a solid ensemble. When she left my mom said she was in shock. On her coffee table was the SOW with the title, “ Judi Evans’ shocking departure from GL”.

Michael Wilding remarked on his lack of storyline saying "One minute I'm trying to kill Reva at Cross Creek, the next minute I'm greeting her like an old friend at the Blue Orchard"

That period almost sunk GL. It was so boring.

It was just so badly plotted and the HW's changed so often.

The Sampson Girl contest. Infinity *eyeroll* The main saving Reva (after she jumped) was some kind of beast! No, he's just a nice guy. No, wait, he's a nut.

1985 was the begining of the end for Pam Long's first golden era. Show went downhill dramatically fast in 1985. Almost from the start of the year, we got Kyle Sampson and his Sampson Girl contest and believing he was a Lewis. I like Larkin Malloy a lot -- adored him as Sky Whitney on Edge -- but Kyle Sampson was not a great character and Larkin apparently didn't fit in with the GL set well.

Then we had Jackson Freemont and Suzette Saxon and the record business plotline which was a turkey. I liked Frances Fisher a lot, but this writers didn't give her much to work with. As for Michael Wilding, he seemed a decent enough actor, but again, this plotline wasn't well thought out.

And of course, spring 1985 gave us the start of the Infinity plotline. I hated that plotline. This was Guiding Light, not General Hospital. Inifinity would have been right at home on GH or Days but this was GL and sci-fi plots just didn't work.

I'm sure the network pressured Pam into doing Infinity. Or maybe she was doing it to appease her new co-HW Jeff Ryder, but Infinity was absolutely the worst storyline under her banner.

Yeah you have to remember everyone was going full plot Général Hospital at that time and GL was no exception. I did however have a massive crush on Jim Reardon(Michael Woods) Woof. Jesus look at all that dick in one pic.

Michael Woods playing Jim Reardon was 1984. Character was gone by Feb. 1985.

R192

Is that Kim Delaney with Woods.? The other 2 women are Grant and Robert's wives.

Jim Reardon was a major player in two adventure stories: the weird "Dreaming Death" story and the campy "Reardon cottage/Susan Piper" story, After the Barbados location shoot, he drifted and eventually faded away, only getting a brief exit scene. I guess he was only on 13-14 months, from December 1983-Jan/maybe early February 1985. The Reardons other than Maureen were back-burnered. You hardly saw Quinton and Nola after the boring story involving Damian Scheller ended, and Tony and Annabelle were basically just running Company. I think Harley Ann Kozak overlapped on "GL" with her first days on "Santa Barbara", much like Larkin Malloy had done with "Edge of Night" and his first days as Kyle Sampson.

Is Marcia McCabe is the long suffering wife of Goutman? Does she still have a drinking problem?

Excuse the typos

GL stabilized a bit in 1986 with a few returns, including Chris Bernau, Grant's return and, if I recall correctly, Peter Simon as Ed.

It was messy again right before Pam started HW duties - remember Lacey Bauer - but the beginning of her second regime is one of those times where you could just tell something had changed for the good....in like two weeks the show was kicking ass again.

She kinda immediately got what was wrong and went about fixing it. Breaking up Reva and Josh and making Reva feel like a fighter again. Introducing Harley (and the Coopers) to stir up some have nots. Moving chess pieces for the Alan vs Phillip for Spaulding story that would play out the following year.

R198 Soap mags said the turning point was when Reva put on her red dress, showed up at the Blue Orchad and sang "Proud Mary"

That is when Reva was back

Reva wasn't wearing a red dress when she did Proud Mary back in summer 1985.

Go to 3:30 for start of Proud Mary.

R200 Yes, R199 had it essentially right but got the date/timing wrong.

The Proud Mary bit played earlier between Pam Long stints, when John Bolger was still Phillip.

When Pam returned in September 1987, one of her early episodes involved Reva showing up at the country club in her red dress. If I recall correctly she's told she isn't welcome, but Alan intervenes.

I love this clip. From Lisa’s bad 80’s sweater to Helen Wagner stumbling over her lines to John and Kim fighting. Ah.

This episode is brilliant and at the height of the Doug Marland era. I’ve never seen so many characters in one episode. The scenes at the Mona Lisa especially the one around the 28:00 mark with Lisa and Ellen Stewart fight are rich with history. So good.

Wow, I have no memory of that Iva/Margo scene but it's fabulous

The episode at R203 was directed by the guy Scott H and Ellen D were talking about. Good director but they would find him over behind the sets between takes cursing and MFing because he was so frustrated. LOL

[quote] When Pam returned in September 1987, one of her early episodes involved Reva showing up at the country club in her red dress. If I recall correctly she's told she isn't welcome, but Alan intervenes.

Yep I got the song and time wrong, but when Pam came back the first episode she wrote was Reva in the red dress, and soap mags all wrote "Reva is back"

Call me crazy, but Bob looks pretty hot in those English tweeds at R203.

Frannie was so damn neurotic. I guess that was good training for Julianne, though.

I’m suprised that Woods/Jim Reardon only lasted for a comparatively short period of time. It would have seemed he was primed to be one of GL’s leading men but maybe Malloy/Kyle Sampson cut into that?

R208 the actor left to do a movie - it was suppose to be a 3 month leave of absence - but he never came back

R209, what movie? There’s nothing on imdb for Woods for 1985 except a TV series called Our Family Honor.

Maybe it was for the TV series R210 - he left to do the pilot and then never came back

I just remember reading something in Soap Opera Digest that his absence was for only 3 months to do this other project.

Yeah the storyline was he supposed to go for 3 months for a think tank thing. He was so sexy.

R206 Yes, you are right.

That ATWT episode was only weeks after James' return AND was planting the seeds for Sabrina.....

how far WILL she go?

Another World was the first and last soap to try a 90 minutes format - all episodes were thought to be lost. But a rare episode from that time has just popped up on YouTube

so watch as this is a rare 90 minute episode that aired daily

The 1970s had some experimentation with length. AW tried 90 min, and ABC tried GH and OLTL at 45 min.

The video at R216 is excellent but it's not a full episode -- it's a compilation of bits from around that time and the chronology jumps back and forth. Lots of great stuff, though!

I loved when Michael Woods was on ATWT. His character was unusual for the show in that he didn't talk much (meanwhile, every other guy on the show was spilling his guts all the time). He was mysterious but then the character was killed off. Mr. Woods went on to star in a short-lived Tribune series, but I haven't seen him since.

I got to thinking how Dallas impacted daytime soaps in the 1980s. AW spun off Texas, the Lewis family came to GL, the Buchanans came to OLTL, am I forgetting anything? Also I’d say the Lewis and Buchanan additions worked since they were still main characters until their shows ended.

R220 Good point. Did any other hit primetime soaps affect the daytime soaps?

R221 more than a few rich bitch characters might have been trying to copy Dynasty’s Alexis, but the rich bitch was already a daytime staple so it wasn’t as blatant as suddenly introducing a rich Texas or oil family.

I remember Marlena Delacroix had a column in Soap Opera Weekly about Lucinda Walsh, and she wrote that Lucinda arrived in “The Alexis Carrington copycat tidal wave that hit daytime in 1984.”

She does have a point-several shows added rich, bitchy , middle aged women to their shows At the time—Alex on GL; Lucinda; Gwenyth on Loving; Cynthia on AMC; Joanna on Y&R. AW already had Donna and Felicia, of course; Dorian was on OLTL; and Kay was frontburner on Y&R. Santa Barbara also premiered with Augusta. There was definitely a trend there at the time.

On Y&R, wealthy Victor Newman came to Genoa City in 1980 and lived on a RANCH and had a stable of horses. He wore cowboy hats and bolo ties ... yeah, in Wisconsin .. lol! .. And of course, by the mid-80s, they were hellbent on turning Jill Foster Abbott into the Alexis Carrington of daytime.

R224 I didn’t know Victor ever dressed like that.

R225 Yes, you can see a reflection of that original look they had for Victor in the show's charcoal drawings that they ran for the credits or bumper for that year. Here he's wearing a Western style jacket and a Maverick tie,

[quote] Mr. Woods went on to star in a short-lived Tribune series, but I haven't seen him since.

He played Alec Wallace on ATWT later on, a love interest for Margo (then played by Ellen Dolan). It was icky to see two Reardon siblings going at it.

That's part of the economic issues the soaps found themselves in later.

Audiences expected grand houses and fabulous things because the nighttime soaps had driven that look into daytime. None of the soaps ever really successfully scaled back from the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous budgets.

Quite the lineup for the Virtual Bauer BBQ!

Almost all of the names on that list have appeared in other Locher Room sessions before, the only ones that are new as far as I can tell (correct me if I am wrong) is Amelia Marshall (Gilly) and Jennifer Roszell (Eleni #2).

R218 yeah when I watched it you are right

I was fooled!

[quote] I loved when Michael Woods was on ATWT. His character was unusual for the show in that he didn't talk much (meanwhile, every other guy on the show was spilling his guts all the time). He was mysterious but then the character was killed off.

That was the first thing Chris Goutman did - axe that storyline in the middle by killing him off

I hope Alan can bring on Pam Long down the line.

I would love to see soap writers and producers interviewed. Probably wouldn't get much audience, though.

Obviously, I should have read R233's link before reading!

The soap writers one will be interesting. I really like Courtney, Jill and Millee.

But they will have to have some level of forthcomingness (is that a word?) about the decision making process. I know the network and P&G had influence, but if they try to sell the "it's all one big family" thing people will riot in the comments.

Millee Taggart’s brief tenure was terrific. It was the last time I watched GL consistently. Gave it up under Ellen Weston and never picked it up again except for an episode here and there.

R236

Patrick Mulcahey is a good one to follow on Twitter. He mainly discusses politics but if you ask him about soaps and/or his rime as a writer he is very forthcoming. He doesn't shrink from answering the more "difficult" questions like how the networks dictate things like POC or LBGTQ characters.

R238 Agreed, I've seen his stuff online.

Some of the other Locher Room participants have been forthcoming without throwing anyone under the bus. Hopefully these writers will do the same. We know already from some others how things go - Nancy Curlee gave a very honest print interview when GL went off the air.

And there will always be some idiot in the comments who's all like "But Manny wasn't on 24/7 sob"

I just think Alan needs to handle this one a bit differently or it could be messy.

I can't believe that Alan Locher would bring Dave Kreizman on there. There are going to be a lot of not nice people on there.

He’d be great for Alan’s show, R238.

Kreizman wasn't great but he did write some interesting bits at first.

He's good at making a splash and setting up the beginnings of stories, but at least on GL, he wasn't good at pacing or at coming up with the middle or end of a story.

Kreizman was horrible. His Tammy and Jonathan romance(1st cousins) not to mention Josh and Not Cassie recast romance and breaking up Josh and Reva (again) , had no basis in character and were purely plot driven. I know the show was on life support by then and Tom Pelphrey was amazing but jeez it was a shit show by then and he made it worse.

Kim Zimmer winning her 4th Emmy and get her digs in but not really. Being slightly diplomatic. And god what a dyke Susan Flannery is. LOL

R244 That dyke WAS B&B. They should have just ended it when she retired. I know... not a P&G show, but it was P&G-adjacent.

We never mind hearing about Ms. Flannery here.

B&B was and is mostly dreadful but R245 is correct.

(If I remember, La Flannery did come to the GL set at some point to study the techniques they were using.)

Zimmer and Flannery are two of my dearest friends.

I sent a special cake to Genoa City for Scoche Marin. Tina Lord lived it at her wedding.

"Do you remember your first day on the show?"

R244

Zimmer's Emmy reel that year was phenomenal. I remember screaming that year when she won. Those scenes were brilliantly written and acted between Zimmer & Newman.

Hottest guy ever on ATWT was James Wlcek.

Did you mean to post that in "Unpopular Opinions," r251?

"Hottest guy ever on ATWT was James Wlcek."

"Missing Linc"? No.

Wlcek always looked like he needed to get his roots done. He also had weird looking pecs. Good looking guy but no beauty.

I'd take Danny Markel, Chris Durham, Chris Fuller, Gregg Marx, Dylan Bruce, Peter Parros, Christian LeBlanc, Shawn Christian, and probably a dozen others I'm forgetting over Wlcek.

Lily got railed by Brian Bloom, Jon Hensley, Thomas Gibson, and Paolo Seganti, all at peak hotness.

Isn't it her birthday, R256? Oh, my gosh, I hope she likes my gift! I hope she doesn't think I'm just trying to BUY HER LOVE!!! LOL.

R256 Another thing Martha Byrne said in her recent SOD interview was that Douglas Marland had written in his original bible that the actress playing Lily (i.e. Martha Byrne) wasn't pretty enough for where the storyline was going to go and they might have to recast. And yes, she had all these hot, studly men chasing after her for the next 17 years, from the ones you already mentioned right up thru Paul Leyden and Scott Holroyd.

But maybe that's why it worked so well? The fact that she wasn't movie star beautiful helped the audience relate to her better and imagine themselves as Lily.

Someone said in one of these threads that Lily was an ingenue for the better part of 10 years. Really, the quintessential soap ingenue.

R258: "But maybe that's why it worked so well? The fact that she wasn't movie star beautiful helped the audience relate to her better and imagine themselves as Lily."

Exactly. Even when Lily drove me crazy by acting spoiled, and bratty, and sulky, there was something down-to-earth about Byrne that rooted the character and allowed you to feel empathy toward her. They really could not have cast the part with a better actress.

Martha was never unattractive, but she was very much a mall kid when she played out the initial Lily/Iva story and her love story with Holden. She was definitely more mature later on and able to play more facets.

Based on the bible that Tom Casiello shared on a blog a few years back, he definitely saw Lily as the next generation bitch....which is NOT where her character went, for sure. But you could see that in the Heather Rattray casting.

R258 Martha Byrne must've had the longest run in the Younger Actress/Ingenue category at the Emmys with nominations from 1986 to 1996.

I think at the time you had to be under 25 or 26 for that category, and her first nom was 16 or 17.

To the poster above commenting on how dykey Susan Flannery is- Check out when she won years prior. It is the ceremony where Lucci thought her name was announced because those FUCKHEADS from B&B shrieked out Susan's name like two fucking idiots. Anyway, its 3 minutes of sheer comedy. Lucci walking out and then Flannery barrels onto that stage as manly as a lumberjack (in a man's tux) no less. She then proceeds to take the idiot girl from B&B and bearhugs her and lifts her up in the air!!!! Its like that scene at the end of Best In Show when the butch lesbian says fuck it and kisses and lifts up Stifler's mom?

Classic. And Flannery is an awesome actress. She was 100% the only reason to watch B&B for well over a decade. That show is- and was- unmitigated TRASH.

R263 The only time I liked B&B was when both Flannery and Darlene Conley were on there. After Conley's death and Flannery's retirement, there was no reason to watch it anymore.

You're going to trigger the P&G queens for talking about a non-P&G soap.

R263 lol. That was a great play by play. Those daytime Emmy telecasts were always a mess. I think that was the same year Eric Braeden thanked himself because he got pissy about Aretha Franklin calling him Victor Newman. Then there was the year we had time for all this stupid Il Divo filler, leaving no time for JFP to give a speech for Outstanding Drama Series, causing them to cut her off when she tried to get cute and give a speech anyways.

I miss those days terribly.

R251 Maybe best pecs, but other ATWT men had the full package.

I just watched two of the ATWT reunion shows, and they were great. One featured Martha Byrne, Maura West, Michael Park, Kelley Hensley and Don Hastings. Even better was the one with Scott Bryce, Hillary Smith and Gregg Marx. Any others you recommend? I'm interested in the ones where they talk about the show, not their personal lives.

R268- Not even ab ATWT fan, but the Martha Byrne and Elizabeth Hubbard one was the BEST I have seen yet. I LOVED it. None of the others have come close..

And SHIT! I forgot another detail about Sue Flannery winning, after (or during) lifting up the delicate little lady, Big Sue, in some testosterone fueled high, makes this weird maniacal laugh/giggle. It was scary. It only lasts 3 seconds but watch it! You will see it. It's a little like the guy in Sling Blade. French Fried Potaters!!

I CANNOT make this up!

Best 3 minutes of my life.

Lily was insufferable in the 86-88 era but Byrne was a terrific performer (and grew as she aged, too).

But y'all aren't kidding: she was pulling premium D way above her paygrade, and I suppose that was so the audience could fantasize into it.

This little gay boy sure did; I was barely pubescent and already fantasizing about going back and forth between Dusty and Holden (sometimes in the same night)!

R263, Conley was a goddess. The meaning of a cool broad. She kicked ass. Seems like a lifetime ago. Made every scene watchable. Okay, back to P&G!

R261 Yes, Miss Byrne had the longest run in the Younger Actress category (with 5 nominations), but Miss Tom had the longest unbroken streak in the category (with 8 nominations).

I wanted to share a photograph from my personal collection. I so enjoy my vacations with Zimmer and Flannery!

Imagine get fucked by peak Jon Hensley.

Kelley Hensley is Kelley Menighan now. She and Jon divorced.

Is it true Doug Marland hired guys that would let him suck their toes?

R276, I heard from someone who’d know that it wouldn’t get that far. He’d just have them lounge around barefoot in his Connecticut residence and he’d jerk off from a reasonable distance.

R276 Wasn't it Frank V. over at OLTL that had a thing for hairy feet?

R278 Over on the Days board, they're always joking about Carlivati and "hairy legs."

R255, Jimmy Wlcek was sex on a stick.

[quote]And god what a dyke Susan Flannery is. LOL

Back when she was not a butch lez:

R277 - Tell me more! I really don't see what's the difference between looking at a guys feet from a few meters away and jerking off vs. just sucking a guy's toes and jerking off. Like, what's the difference to the actor?

R278 - Frank V. likes hairy feet? Huh?

Foot fetishists usually keep their love really secret for fear of ostracization so I am interested to know how this Marland rumor spread.

R282

No one has ever said FV likes hairy feet. They are getting him confused wit RC liking hairy legs. FV has kept his life 100% private. He's a workaholic who most probably hires rent boys. They come when he has time. They fuck & then they are paid to leave not to stay.

Y’all can we keep the convo at a bit of a higher level in the thread named for the award-winning host of WOAK’s [italic]Patterns[/italic]?

I'd heard stories about Marland's fetish too. He was a voyeur and a sniffer. It really wasn't about being in the same room. He liked to watch.

I can't blame him. Peak Jon Hensley and a lot of the other hotties would make me wanna cum in my shorts, too.

[quote]Y’all can we keep the convo at a bit of a higher level in the thread named for the award-winning host of WOAK’s Patterns?

MARY!

R285 I’m sure he had a bit more self-control than that.

When FV lived in NY, he shared a home in East Hampton with a guy around his same age who was a vice principal at a local middle school. (He went on to become principal.)

Lily totally over reacted when she found out she was adopted

Uh, she was finding out that she was adopted, her friend was her mother, and her father was a rapist.

Of course she lost her shit.

I was riveted by the Lily/Iva/Josh storyline. So emotional, and the performances were superb. As many things as I've enjoyed William Fichtner in over the years, I never forget him as Josh.

Not the best quality.

I didn’t like Martha Byrne’s performance at all when Lily found out about Iva. That quivering lower lip made it really hard to watch.

I don't remember this scene, but it looks like they were doing a test for a Holden/Lily/Caleb triangle.

Ooops, forgot the link

Bill Shanks was one of the hottest men ever.

GOOD NEWS & bad news - DL wishes have been granted

The Locher Room will be doing a webcast devoted to the writers of Guiding Light!

Now the bad news - none of them are the writers folks at DL want to hear from

On the line-up Jim Brown (Clone Storyline), Dave Kreizman, Jill Lorie Hurst, Courtney Simon and Millee Taggart

Oh, I kinda wanna hear from all of them. I liked Millie Taggart's stuff and it was Hurst's stuff at the end that gave GL back a lot of its heart.

I would especially like to hear from Brown about Rauch and how CBS/P&G might have interfered with their visions. Or not. (If Rauch was to be believed the clone story was forced on them all.)

Millie Taggart and Courtney Simon worked on all the marquee P&G soaps as actresses or writers, so that should be interesting.

Yes, Millie must be 100 by now so I hope she can navigate zoom OK

Maybe we can get Millie Taggart to talk about Mary Stuart (SFT)

MARY!

Millie could talk about her from SFT and also, I think Millie was writing when she was on GL - or was that Claire?

Millee’s a stupid name. Should be Millie.

R291 , totally agree, but with one quibble. Fichtner was WAY too young to be playing Lily's father.

R305 But the main story point was that both Iva and Josh were young when it happened, 13 years old I believe. He was 31 (and Brown 33) when those scenes played out so it actually made sense, roughly, for both age-wise.

Someone mentioned Tom Casiello uploaded some bible to a blog. Does anyone have a link?

Here you go r307. It’s in four parts. It’s the Bible Doug Marland wrote in 1985 before he started at ATWT. It’s fascinating how much changed.

[quote]On the line-up Jim Brown (Clone Storyline), Dave Kreizman, Jill Lorie Hurst, Courtney Simon and Millee Taggart

I could do without David Kreizman, but all the rest I could be interested to hear from. Millee Taggart wrote the last good year of GL (2002), one where the show really looked like it was turning around for the better after an eight year run of mediocrity.

Jill Lorie Hurst loved the show so much, she put what little bit of heart there was in the show's final year. She's the one who is largely responsible for the show wrapping up nicely, bringing back old fave and honoring the history.

While I hated much of what Brown and Essenstein wrote (such overrated writers, I will be curious to know what he has to say about things like the clone storyline, having Annie go crazy, bringing Cassie in, etc.

Of course, asking insightful and probing questions will be of utmost importance this time! None of this "What are you watching on TV right now?" and "Do you remember your first day?" stuff. Those definitely will not work with this group. These need to be some well thought out questions, questions that are planned out well in advance. Can't fly by the seat of the pants with this one.

Alan, Bravo for arranging this group of writers. But please, you must do your HOMEWORK before this interview. Please have all your facts in order so you can conduct a fantastic interview for us!

.

for all the hate towards Brown and Essenstein, they did manage to push Guiding Light to its highest ratings since the mid-80s (in 5th spot)

Even JFP couldn't pull that off.

The clone was Rauch's baby. He blamed the writers, the network, and everyone he could when it failed, but it was his baby. He would have taken all of the credit had the story been a success.

[quote] The clone was Rauch's baby. He blamed the writers, the network, and everyone he could when it failed, but it was his baby. He would have taken all of the credit had the story been a success.

that was the storyline that pushed GL to number 5 in the ratings, the highest since the mid-80s

so why are people saying it failed, when it paid off in a big way?

I thought the show did a good job with the clone storyline. It had heart and Zimmer really sold it being Dolly the clone.

My main problem with the clone storyline was the it DIDN'T BELONG on GL. The stories GL did were grounded in reality, not science fiction. The clone storyline belonged on Days or GH.

Well that and the fact that it ate the show. One of Zimmer was enough. It became the Reva Show and everybody else got cycled into about 10 minutes of non-Reva-related airtime per episode. If you were a fan of characters other than Reva who were not in the Reva/clone story, you couldn't wait for that story to end.

Did someone from Seattle piss in Doug Marland's cereal? Julie constantly mentions that she is from there but makes it sound like she's from the ghettos of Detroit.

R293 I completely disagree! I've always thought she was so good and believable in that scene.

R311 I thought the clone came from an exec at CBS?

R313 Yes, very true, Liz, just as the time travel nonsense never belonged in our dear Bay City.

R296, he was.

That episode in which Casey chased Lyla around the house wearing a gorilla mask (and acting like a gorilla) was adorable.

He brought such joy to Lyla's life at a time when most people had written her off.

what a sad end they had; Shanks wanted to come to LA. he tried acting for a few years and then became a private eye, I heard.

Has Jon Hensley been seen since he appeared on B&B as a doctor several years ago for just a few episodes?

R263 I remember a fight when a woman ripped off Stephanie's wig.

"Did someone from Seattle piss in Doug Marland's cereal? Julie constantly mentions that she is from there but makes it sound like she's from the ghettos of Detroit."

I always believed (though I have no proof) that Marland was at least partly inspired by the acclaimed and influential documentary "Streetwise," which had made a big splash a few years before. And then there was the burgeoning grunge music scene, which was by that time being covered by the mainstream press. (TWIN PEAKS could not have been an influence, as it debuted a year after Julie Wendell's first appearance) The PNW was very "hot" at the time, and looking at Marland's history... Well, it doesn't surprise me that he was drawn to it. Hard, rugged lives of not-so-quiet desperation... Seemingly idiotic bumpkins who are actually fonts of wisdom... The romanticization of even the most sordid of situations...

I mean, it was right up his alley.

Julie also arrived in town somewhere around the time of grunge, so maybe she was based on (((shudders))) Courtney Love!

I loved Veleka Gray as Lyla. She was probably 10 years too young for the role. Don Hastings supposedly hate her and she got the heave ho.

She was pretty good, R324, but didn't have Sward's sensuality, which was essential to Lyla's romance with Casey.

[quote]Did someone from Seattle piss in Doug Marland's cereal? Julie constantly mentions that she is from there but makes it sound like she's from the ghettos of Detroit.

Oh, now stop being silly. It's that Johnny Boy Dixon who's always bringing it up. "Little Miss Seattle" this. "Little Miss Seattle" that. One day Julie's gonna just haul off and hit him in the "Little Miss Johnny Boy Dixon." And it'll be no more than what he deserves.

Gray was fired pretty soon after she was cast, wasn't she?

The original Lyla was on with Cricket and Margo only, I think, but that was a wee bit before my time.

Casey didn't come along until much much later.

Annie Sward was also too young for the role - Ellen Dolan said on the Locher Room that Anne was only three years older than her!

I didn't even know there was another Lyla!

Caleb and Julie really pushed the CBS censorship envelope with their sex scenes.

I'd forgotten how sexy Michael David Morrison was

Anne Sward (Lyla) is a mormon and when she let go from ATWT she went back to Utah and her biggest claim to fame was appearing on "Touched By An Angel" over half-dozen times.

I never saw this thread before!

If they ever make a movie of "The Devil Wears Lane Bryant", I think Laura Wright would be perfect for the Carolyn Hinsey role. Both are loud, pushy and abrasive.

LOL r333

AW went off the air today in 1999.

I'm still not over it.

In mourning.

we've been Murieled.

Please stand by, new thread is in progress

we've been Murieled.

Please stand by, new thread is in progress

But it was absolutely awful that Rachel and Carl were endgame. I like to think Ada haunted Carl until he fell down the stairs and died from a blood clot on his brain.

R263, compounding the lunacy of that moment -- if one listens -- it's the ALL MY CHILDREN theme music that's played when the winners Susan FLLKAJSDL:KAHSF is announced. So that gave La Lucci every reason to think she had won her book end.

it was ridiculous of CBS to let those two CHILDREN read the winner for Best Actress. It should always be last year's winner for actor doing that (and actress should read the actor winner).

In fairness to Torkildsen, Frantz acts like she's presenting the award by herself. Shutting out your co-presenter is not cool. One should read the noms, the other the winner and actors should be giving in their scenes and at awards shows, too.

Our new P&G thread (this one was Muriel'd)

R339, AW ended early because the show failed to find a proper leading man for Rachel after Mac died.

Also, the disintegration of the Matthews clan...

Also, if Harding Lemay had been treated better, the show might have lasted and thrived; you don't cancel a top two show.