The Dow Drops Bigly on Coronavirus fears, Trump Stupidity and Assorted Other Bullshit, Pt. 2

“We certainly expect an economic slowdown but so much of where the global economy goes will be dictated by policy responses,” Kristina Hooper, Invesco’s chief global market strategist, said in an interview at Bloomberg’s New York headquarters. “Arguably, more importantly, is the fiscal policy response. It’s absolutely critical. That’s going to be more important than the monetary policy response.”

Added to the uncertain impact of the virus on the economy is the crashing oil price that threatens to upend politics and budgets around the world, exacerbate strains in high-yield credit and add pressure on central bankers trying to avert a recession. It typically would have proved a boon to consumers, but the coronavirus is increasingly keeping them at home.

The market meltdown is forcing equity investors to confront worst-case scenarios they normally delegate to colleagues in credit: which companies can survive a slowdown, and which are teetering toward extinction?

The urgency of the assessment is a sign stock managers have entered survival mode as credit spreads spike. Companies with strong balance sheets have generated “extraordinary returns” on a relative basis since the S&P 500 peaked on Feb. 19, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.’s chief U.S. equity strategist, David Kostin. Their weaker counterparts have gotten trounced.

“Markets will continue to see this extreme volatility with falls on worries about the economic outlook on the back of coronavirus and its flow on, but occasional sharp rallies on stimulus plans and signs of hope,” said Shane Oliver, head of investment strategy and chief economist at AMP Capital Investors.

[quote]Arguably, more importantly, is the fiscal policy response. It’s absolutely critical.

That’s what they kept saying all day on CNBC. Fiscal policy = having to do with government revenue, i.e. tax cuts?

Markets in Asia and Australia have all stabilized and Dow futures are still up more than 500 points.

A 500 point gain seems like the market isn't convinced.

Xi visited Wuhan today in China, so that means the coronavirus crisis there is effectively over, and economy recovery is the big priority. This should help stabilize the world markets.

Yes. The Republican response to all crises is “brace yourselves . . . for a tax cut.”

Payroll tax revenue (next to go) provides funds for worker security. Cutting it is of little value to those stuck at home due to the virus who can’t work remotely du (and thus have no pay anyway). And for those who are working it’s like “saving” money by ditching your insurance.

Of course the Republican donors are all for it.

[quote]Yes. The Republican response to all crises is “brace yourselves . . . for a tax cut

I bet the majority of the tax cut will go to corporations as part of their "stimulus package", the payroll tax cut which benefits working people will be small.

I THANK YOU R5.

Dump is doing what he does best. Looting the Treasury. Taking his profits. Declaring America bankrupt.

A 700 point jump after a 2000 point drop is not a good thing.

It was all going to crash with or without Covid-19. We've been living in a dream world.

It’s fucking rigged and I hope it craters. Cocksuckers like Trump and all the #bossbabe cunts I hate need to come back to reality.

[quote] Xi visited Wuhan today in China, so that means the coronavirus crisis there is effectively ove

For now . . .

Ah, here's why we don't have a robust market response today...

[quote]A report from CNBC tempered enthusiasm, however, as it quoted unnamed officials saying a plan “is not there right now.”

It's lip service.

I'm a bit disappointed markets are up this morning. I was hoping Trump's booming economy would crash and burn and people would rally to get his fat ass out of the WH after another major drop.

Never heard of the “dead cat bounce?”

r15 before the markets tanked in 1999 and 2008 they swung wildly like this too.

"I'm a bit disappointed markets are up this morning"

I just bought Trader Joe's!

[quote] I'm a bit disappointed markets are up this morning. I was hoping Trump's booming economy would crash and burn and people would rally to get his fat ass out of the WH after another major drop.

Only a tiny bit of Trumpanzees are in the market. This market volatility is nothing to them. It won't effect them until they lose shifts or lose their job.

Dead cat bounce is dead.

It’s headed back down. We end the day in 22k territory

Apparently Trump's tweets on the Fed dropped the market.

He has to be working the market for his own gain.

Insider trading is absolutely happening with Trump & Co

The tweet that stopped the half assed rally...

[quote]Our pathetic, slow moving Federal Reserve, headed by Jay Powell, who raised rates too fast and lowered too late, should get our Fed Rate down to the levels of our competitor nations. They now have as much as a two point advantage, with even bigger currency help. Also, stimulate!

He really wants negative interest rates.

Man, when this all crashes and I mean really fucking crashes it’ll make the Great Depression look like 2008. The economic illusion that globalists & capitalists have stoked for years with bailouts, artificially low interest rates and printing money will come unwound. People don’t own their cars, homes, TVs. This is going to be a complete reset to society and the economy.

Here’s an interesting article on the frequency of stock market declines. Declines of 20%-40% occurred 8 times in the last 70-some years, or once a decade on average. Declines of 5%-10% occurred 78 times in the same period, or about once a year on average. So, big drops really aren’t that unusual and you should always invest with this in mind.

That said, past events are not a reliable predictor of future events. The Coronavirus is a unique thing in a newly globalized world.

Dump has been pushing to lower interest rates because HE owes 100 Mil to the banks. As always it's about HIM.

[quote] R19: Only a tiny bit of Trumpanzees are in the market. This market volatility is nothing to them. It won't effect them until they lose shifts or lose their job.

I don’t think this is true. Some people have pensions or 401ks. Some have investment advisors. My Deplorable sister and bro-in-law have ignored my repeated advice to sell their holdings and seem determined to ride the wave into the Mariana Trench. I had managed their money in 2008-2016 when I quit because my bro in law was getting more involved and he really is Deplorable. They watch Fox News and are just foolish and I’m so sad for my sister..

My nephew, their son, is also a Deplorable, but I convinced him to get out before the biggest plunge.

For these guys, it isn’t about making a killing in the market, right now. It’s just about maintaining what they have. That’s the first goal.

Funny how the GOP always pushes economic stimulus. Yet when Obama presented his stimulus plan, all we heard was “failed stimulus!”

A neighbor of mine put his place on the market 20 days ago. It isn’t sold yet, and I would expect this panic to put a pause on that. He missed his chance by just a few weeks! My neighborhood has gentrified and, just for example, another newish neighbor bought his place for $1.4 million and paid mostly cash last year. Imagine that! But these places aren’t so nice, so I don’t think even the wealthy will do tend to do that again until things settle down. It mostly is that this is one of the best neighborhoods you could be in, in the center of Boston. Great location, old renovation.

These two are in the same condo association as I am. It occurred to me that I am dependent on them and a few others to pay their share of fees to keep this place afloat. One owner died in January, too, so that could be a problem. I know two more owners had been planning to sell, as part of their long-established plans, but haven’t made a move yet. I think they missed their chance, too.

And we're down again. Off 700 at the open.

Oh, and Goldman Sachs said the bull market is ending and predicted a low in the S&P of 2450. Current market conditions should continue into 2021.

[quote] Only a tiny bit of Trumpanzees are in the market. This market volatility is nothing to them. It won't effect them until they lose shifts or lose their job.

Except they'll never blame Trump or the Republicans. Fox will tell them some contrivance about how it is the Democrats fault.

Marc Thibault, a 48-year-old man from Rhode Island, one of the first Americans to be diagnosed with Covid-19, shared his experiences with WSJ. The married father of two, who is a vice principal of student life at a private Catholic school, tested positive after returning from a school trip to Europe that went through Italy.

Mr. Thibault had no symptoms during the trip, but he felt unusually sluggish on the flight back to the U.S.

“Something is wrong,” he told his wife when he finally got home to Rhode Island near midnight on Saturday, Feb. 22. He went straight to bed, and then the next day, went to a walk-in clinic. Mr. Thibault has asthma, but he exercises everyday and said he rarely gets sick.

He stayed home from work, but just got worse, with growing fatigue, a dry cough and something that resembled bronchitis. He went to a hospital but was again told he didn’t meet the criteria for the test, he said.

Doctors there were concerned, however, and Mr. Thibault said he quickly got a call from the Rhode Island Department of Health, which told him to get tested immediately.

By later in the week, Mr. Thibault was at the Miriam Hospital, where he was admitted. He tested positive for the virus.

He says the virus now hit him “like a hurricane.” He was weak and had trouble breathing. The hospital whisked him into the ICU, where nurses donned hazmat-style suits to enter his room.

They inserted a breathing tube, and put another tube down his throat for medicine to deal with pneumonia that developed in his lungs, he said.

Gagging and coughing, Mr. Thibault said he felt scared. His lungs would fill with saliva and nurses would dash in and clear them out, only to have to do it again two hours later.

“The feeling of choking. That was the worst part,” he said. “You feel like you’re asphyxiating, and you’re panicking because you can’t breathe.”

The agony went on for days.

Last week, he forced himself to write a note to his wife, telling her that if his lungs collapsed, to not keep him on life support.

Slowly he began to get better. The doctors took out his breathing tube and to his relief, his lungs picked up the pace.

“It almost killed me,” he said. “It’s alarming when I hear people minimize it as a simple cold. It was no simple cold for me.”

A guy in NJ is getting worse despite (he says) having previous no risk factors & currently being in a hospital . . .

We were told yesterday that a colleague in another office has covid. That office has been closed and everyone is in quarantine. Our office is now on a rotating work from home schedule.

Europe did an emergency rate cut. Markets there are higher.

We're set up to work from home, but all the managers are too scared to push that policy and the higher ups are too scared to push it either.

They are literally waiting for someone to show up with Covid-19 before they'll do anything.

Yeah, that's not too smart of them , r40. At least let those most vulnerable work from home.

Market is tanking again today. I think we're about to hit bear market territory.

I'm fine with any short-term pain and suffering, and maybe 50k deaths if it could kill Trump's re-election. Thank you COVID-19.

R40 Baby Boomer middle management knows once this work from home shit takes over completely they’ll lose the ability to abuse their expense reports on travel etc like they’ve been doing for decades.

Today was quite bad. Bigly so.

Trump has really messed this up. Those labs do not have to report to CDC, so now there is no record of cases and we don't know which areas are in freefall

R45 that’s the point of the coverup. He might go to jail for crimes against humanity after this is all said and done.

Economic-relief measures were expected to be announced Tuesday, but apart from reports of a payroll-tax cut through November, investors are in the dark about when the stimulus could arrive and what it would look like.

The decline wiped out most gains made in Tuesday's rebound and continued the trend of heightened market volatility amid the coronavirus outbreak and the new oil-price war.

The big problem is that he already did the kinds of things you do in a crisis when there was no crisis.

And then his bungling of a public health issue created a crisis.

True, r48, but then he really stepped in it when he promised a stimulus package and never delivered. He was supposed to have a press conference about it yesterday. His people admitted there is nothing ready. Oops!

My fantasy is that Dump announces he has the Corona virus and drools all over his orange tan, while the men in white suits take him away. How fabulous are my dreams?

Trump could have followed the UK's lead but then again he has given too many bailouts to too many groups of people already. Socialism cloaked in the Republican's caftan. PATHETIC!

I work for Amazon and they weren’t taking any chances. Everyone ordered out of the office on Tuesday to work from home ...

Shit is the crazy.

Another bear market befell a Republican president. Yeah yeah sure sure they are good at doing business. History would beg to differ.

Such a putrid shit stain on Trump's presidency yet again.

[quote]Dow drops 1,400 points and tumbles into a bear market, down 20% from last month’s record close

[quote]The coronavirus-induced sell-off reached a new low on Wednesday as Wall Street grappled with the rapid spread of the virus as well as uncertainty around a fiscal response to curb slower economic growth resulting from the outbreak.

[quote]The Dow Jones Industrial Average tumbled 1,464.94 points, or 5.9%, to close at 23,553.22. The 30-stock average closed in a bear market, down more than 20% below the record close set only last month and putting to end an expansion that started in 2009 amid the financial crisis.

Stupid question—what constitutes a bear market? Are there defined guidelines? Or is it just a consensus?

Bear market is a drop of 20% over a period of two months or less.

R54 - a 20%+ drop in recent market highs

A “correction” is a drop of 10% from the recent high.

A “bear market” is a 20% drop from the recent high.

By “recent high”, I mean the high during the preceding bull market. The definition isn’t written in stone, so different people may use it slightly differently.

This idiot pronouncement he just made has only caused the futures to crater again.

I need to vent... I'm trying to sell my shitty NYC apartment. This market caused the sale to fall through. I'm pissed.

Thanks all, for responding to my question on the bear market! Yes... we’re in one. ☹️☹️☹️

Oh, shit, r58... He's giving a press conference. I forgo his doing that tonight. We should be crashing tomorrow.

Thanks, Obama...OH, WAIT!!!

Is he really, r61? Hasn’t his Adderall worn off by now?

Yeah, r62, he's addressing the nation on the coronavirus tonight. I can't imagine he's inspiring confidence.

OMG!!! The Dow will plummet again tomorrow!!! The Turd doesn't inspire much confidence these days, so it seems. SAD!!!

lololololol... Dow futures drop 600 as Trump speech disappoints!

I capitulated and sold everything today... should have done it yesterday during the rally. Just too many uncertainties regarding this virus situation. The government seems to be in deep denial. I can't even be certain the market will be open if things get too out of control.

I did the same R66. I can freely admit I don't have the stomach for this.

R67 Yeah, I tried to hold on for the past weeks, but the market breaking into a new low today is a clear technical signal for a new leg down. Maybe there will be a miracle tomorrow but I am not holding my breath.

I was surprised to find my SO sold over a week ago. First time he did so,etching right,p.

Futures are already down about 900 points. We're going to trip the breakers again tomorrow.

Oh, no!!! He's lost his Midas touch!!!

[bold]Dow futures drop 1,000 points as Trump speech disappoints investors[/bold]

Futures contracts tied to the major U.S. stock indexes fell on Wednesday night after an address from President Donald Trump failed to quell concerns over the possible economic slowdown from the coronavirus.

The move comes after the Dow Jones Industrial Average ended its historic 11-year bull market run by closing in a bear market.

Dow futures were down 1,067 points, indicating a loss of about 1,027 points at Thursday’s open. S&P 500 and Nasdaq 100 futures were also sharply lower.

In his address, Trump announced travel from Europe will be suspended for 30 says as part of the government’s response to the coronavirus. Trump also said the administration would provide financial relief for workers who are ill, caring for others due to the virus or are quarantined.

However, these announcements were not enough for investors who were looking for a more robust fiscal response to curb potentially slower economic growth.

Yeah, Trump's speech was "calming".

[quote]In his address, Trump announced travel from Europe will be suspended for 30 says as part of the government’s response to the coronavirus.

Does it include travelers returning to the U.S.?

Asian markets are tanking, and I can only imagine the European ones are going to be a bloodbath.

From Twitter...

In the <2 hours since Trump's address: - Oil fell 5.6% more (thanks to travel ban) - Hong Kong shares entered bear market - U.S. futures plunged, *deepening* bear market - Euro stoxx 50 futures feel more than 7% Worldwide market verdict could hardly be more negative

Is it as bad as 2008 yet?

It's different from 2008, r76. "Bad" remains to be seen.

Hot bearded trader at R72: don't touch your face! You could die!!

Futures down 1000.

It’s worse than 2008 because there’s no one competent to save the economy.

Tomorrow is going to be what’s called “a fucking bloodbath”.

As long as we're not in "mother fucking bloodbath" territory, r81.

Blue Horseshoe loves Gilead.

The idea that Trump or any of his 1% pals LOSE money when the market collapses....

Yep. Trump called his buddies beforehand, said he was going to be alarming and asked them to short the stock market for him and just like that, he owns millions.

S&P 500 futures went from down 0.4 % just before Trump spoke to down of 3.3%. Market now expected to open down 5%,

The futures market hit their equivalent of a circuit breaker overnight, so trading was halted.

You think we'll have a repeat of the other day, where they stop trading within fifteen minutes of the opening bell?

emptywheel:

So Kushner and Miller wrote a speech that 1) endorsed a policy that is utterly pointless which 2) they made clear by including exceptions that swallow the rule which 3) they then tried to claim didn't say what Trump read from a script which also 4) misstated insurers commitments.

By putting his Clown Prince and favorite racist in charge of this speech rather than putting experts in charge of it Trump caused a trillion dollars of damage to the world economy.

I really do think there might be an effort to get Dump removed. I know, I know... but he looked and sounded terrible. His appearance last night is causing the market to crater. I think only his most idiotic followers wouldn’t acknowledge it. I admit, it was funny to see him stumbling over words before, etc but last night, It was apparent that mentally he is not in any shape to deal with this. Maybe I’m being optimistic (I am a bit of a Pollyanna). But I bet there will be some talk about the 25th amendment, as he looks lost, and we are facing the likes of which we haven’t seen before.

R89, all he needs to do is step aside and let actual experts handle the situation and the market will improve. He can't even get out of his own way.

CNBC seems to be fatalistic today.

R90, you are right on. Hence maybe people who are losing their shirts might “make” him step aside. One can dream, right? It’s either that or drown myself in booze.

They're basically prepping people for all three breaker trips.

[quote] It’s either that or drown myself in booze.

Pics please.

I think we just tripped a circuit breaker.

We're getting close...

.05% more and we're there.

There is is.

Not even six minutes into the day.

So now we can add tripped market circuit breakers twice in one week to his growing list of "accomplishments"

I mean, he's had more trips than Obama did, so he's succeeding bigly.

If we get to a part 3 of this threat, can we call it Captain Trips?

Can we call this the TrumpSlump?

Even the finance guys are saying they need to focus on the public health part first.

But I'm sure Fox Business isn't saying that, so it won't penetrate Trump's thick skull.

CNBC's new thing is that the circuit breakers are going to fix everything.

Trump has the virus. It's obvious.

Inovio Pharmaceuticals seemed to be a bright spot. It received a $5 million grant from the Gates Foundation for testing a device that may be used to deliver a COVID-19 vaccine.

I mean, he's still up and tweeting bullshit at all hours of the night, so he can't be that sick.

The woman who's the head of the NYSE was saying that if one of the traders gets sick, all they're going to do is close the floor temporarily to clean. Despite the fact that they can be fully online.

Cramer is freaking out: he fears it's going to take down "the S&P" (read: Trump) and "We can't let that happen!"

When was the last time the DJIA was below 20,000? Because I expect to see it drop below that by the weekend. Or maybe today.

I think around 2016.

And we're back and dropping. Next breaker is 13%.

Cramer's basically saying "both sides" are wrong here, and "we need to work together again."

Cramer wants a tariff to prop up our fossil fuel extraction.

He wants the government to act so "China doesn't get out ahead of us" after this in Trump's trade war. He wants to spend money so Trump wins his trade war.

Is Fox News talking about Hunter Biden right now?

[quote]When was the last time the DJIA was below 20,000? Because I expect to see it drop below that by the weekend. Or maybe today.

I don't think it would be today. My back of the envelope math thinks they trip the last breaker and completely halt trading before it was able to get that low, unless the Dow outpaces the S&P by a lot.

Out of curiosity, what was the Dow at when Obama left office?

Rick Santelli isn't screaming that the market is being mean to Trump today.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI) declined 0.1%, to close at 19,804.72. However, the S&P 500 also increased 0.2% to close at 2,271.89. The tech-laden Nasdaq Composite Index closed at 5,555.65, gained 0.3%. The fear-gauge CBOE Volatility Index (VIX) increased 5.1% to settle at 12.48.Jan 19, 2017

I'm looking forward to it dropping to 19804.71.

The Guardian: London's FTSE 100 has plunged 9%, shedding 546 points to just 5,330.37 -- levels not seen since 2012.

European stock markets have crated by 10% -- which would be the worse day ever for the Stoxx 600 index of EU companies.

Sachs is predicting a complete wipeout of the Dow's gains since Obama left office.

Where's Kudlow? I think the virus was "contained"???? KellyAnne, it's "contained," right? Didn't you and Kudlow say that earlier in the week?

Cheeto Cult DLers: your maga god is fucking up. Pray to him!!!

If you're losing money you're just stupid.

Short the stocks, and buy the pharma stocks. I'm 25,000 up since 2020 started.

Chinese pharma stocks alone are a goldmine.

^^ - before it steadies

[quote]Sachs is predicting a complete wipeout of the Dow's gains since Obama left office.

And then we're all going to point and laugh and laugh and laugh.

The DOW is down about 27% from a month ago.

Jim Cramer needs to shut the fuck up or get the virus. Anything to get his piehole to close.

What is the market going to look like when the death totals reach triple digits? Then into the thousands? That's going to happen within the next 2-3 weeks.

Cramer just whispered "Why do you keep bringing him on?" as Steve Liesman delivered truthful analysis regarding the Fed being far from lowering rates again. Cramer's desperate to prop up the market.

I've got my stereo turned up and I'M DANCING!!! The lower the DOW goes, the faster I dance!!!

r122 Where's Larry? Brain damaged cocaine addict.

"Partisanship" is to blame on CNBC. Not Cheeto. God forbid their god fucks up.

Got to false equivalency it or the GOP becomes an 80 y.o. with lung cancer and Coronavirus

I'm waiting for the Times to do the "both sides" and "partisanship" dance. They need access to Cheeto, and accurately blaming him for fucking up isn't going to maintain that access.

CNBC is as bad as Fox News.

CNBC wants bailouts bailouts bailout!!!! Oil! Cruise ships! Airlines!!!!!!! Bail them out!

There's no denying that Trump's fuck up are leading the global markets lower. Just look at the before and after reaction to the speech last night. The markets are looking for a coherent plan from us. There is no plan. That is obvious. And what little there is had to be walked back a bit this morning.

WHo's the trading floor guy on MSNBC (not CNBC)? He's hot.

If it's always bailouts then all we're doing is investing in an artificially inflated market. But hey, anything for a short term gain.

David Gura is the MSNBC trading floor guy. Piece of ass.

MSNBC's UK guy is cute too. Matt Bradley.

Apparently gross, too.

Gross, Matt.

I'm okay with bailouts if they are handled similarly to the bank in 2008 where the money was paid back with interest. Bailouts serve a purpose: they keep people employed and keep the economy afloat. 2008 would have made the depression look like a blip if the bank's weren't bailed out.

Can we anonymously revote on the impeachment counts? Asking for a friend.

This could lead to a Dem Senate. The Cult is fucking up that badly.

Pence: "There's been some irresponsible rhetoric" (from Democrats). Evil moron.

Last year, I booked a cruise on Princess for early May. I've been holding off on canceling it until I had a better idea of what was happening. I mean, I was definitely planning to cancel (no way I'm getting on a cruise ship any time soon), but was waiting until we were a little closer to it. Don't have to make that decision now. Just received an email from Princess saying that they are suspending service for the next 60 days.

There’s been some irresponsible governing for the last three years.

Wow, R146. Do you get your money back?

[quote]My fantasy is that Dump announces he has the Corona virus and drools all over his orange tan, while the men in white suits take him away. How fabulous are my dreams?

Not me. I want him to stay healthy, and get richer because of this whole thing — that’s the kind of crap that would jar his idiot followers.

And why do you think that is R90?

I’m guessing something close to what r85 posited.

Whoa...the whole cruise line or just that one boat, r146?

Bailouts = Socialism!!!!!!

I've always liked my men cute and gross r140.

Princess is suspending all service for 60 days. From the email I received:

[quote]After very serious consideration of the evolving COVID-19 situation, Princess Cruises has made the difficult decision to voluntarily and temporarily pause our global ship operations for 60 days, effective immediately through May 11, 2020.

They are offering refunds or credit for a future cruise (assuming they're still in operation in the future).

I doubt Carnival Corp is going to close up shop over this.

They're in the midst of building out a lot of new ships though. That's going to hurt for a while.

Coochie-coochie!

R128 The finance guys don't seem to have much forward thinking there.

R153 Lots of artificial reef potential in the future!

YOU get a bailout! YOU get a bailout! EVERYBODY GETS A BAILOUT!!!

To R148, I also had a cruise cancelled at the last minute and was told I would get a full refund. That was three days ago and the credit hasn't yet hit my credit card. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get it.

Is Trump dead? He hasn't made any of his usual unhinged tweets since yesterday. It appear someone else is manning his account presently.

Norwegian is still sailing as of now. They sent an email requiring a doctor's note from people over 70 or they can't go. I thought most of cruise passengers were over 70.

Carnival Corp stock is down 67% over the past year.

Royal Caribbean is down 75%

Norwegian Holdings is down over 80%

Probably a good time to buy.

Coochie-Coochie!

[quote]I thought most of cruise passengers were over 70.

Depends on the line. NCL, Carnival, and Royal Caribbean skew younger.

From my experience, NCL and Carnival tend to be mostly young people and families. Think spring break combined with Disney World party boats. Royal Caribbean and Princess tend to be more older people and families. Celebrity skews more towards middle-aged couples and recent empty-nesters. Holland America is like a nursing home on water.

Trump has it. The way he acted yesterday during the address, barely able to breathe, he must have it.

He claims he hasn't even been tested (Sure, Jan).

If that were the case then the market would be up today and not dropping like a rock, r164.

Recession is here. Corona with bubble in the markets. Europe is now closing down. Here where I live Denmark Sweden Norway Finland all have given strict rules, avoid traveling abroad, working at home as much as possible, Den and Nor have closed schools kindergartens etc for two weeks. Thankfully our government is better prepared than many others and is paying full salary if the working place will be closed due the virus.

Trump addresses the Nation, and the next day the DJIA is down 7% before lunch.

LOL. (And ugly crying).

Trump went to Walter Reed yesterday but there’s no explanation. He has it.

He went to Walter Reed four months ago, not yesterday.

Welp, he's back to tweeting his usually bullshit. Damn it! I was getting hopeful for a while there.

*usual

Pelosi on TV, talking about getting food to children who can't go to school, etc.

Compare it to the monster rambling and wheezing last night about nothing.

OMG. I am on the West Coast. As of this morning - 3-12-20 - I have officially lost 40% of my wealth since February. I only ever had enough to feel a moderate sense of security. Now I am panicked.

It’s for the best. Your therapy was going nowhere.

I'm with you, r174. I'm hoping the WH gets its shit together soon.

Your hopes are tied to the White House? This White House? As in Trump? Bles your little heart.

r174, do not sell. It will come back.

Ain't coming back. That shit was a massive bubble. And it's OV-AH. You had tons of time to get out.

I have a long long way to retirement so I'm having fun watching the market tank on Trump's watch.

I prayed for a Bear. A bear market will keep me comforted until I get a bear

On this issue, r174, yes. I'm not hoping for needless deaths or lost retirement funds.

Almost 2000 points. Fucking Trump should follow us own advise and resign.

Brazilian official tests positive after meeting with Trump!!!!!!!!

Trust me, they’re giving Trump immune globulin shots or iv to prevent/minimize infection. They did it to the higher ups during the anthrax scare.

Otherwise “germphobic” Trump would be in his bedroom directing the response from his “throne.”:

Looks like we're testing the lows again. Down 9.3%.

heading to 10%!

Don't watch the Dow, watch the S&P.

Why r187?

That's the index they use to measure how serious the shit is. The breakers are tied to that, not the DJIA.

Traders desperate for the market to pop higher. Anything Cheeto says, any optimistic lie, makes it pop. Just goes right back down after, because the market finally accepts that he's always lying. Pathetic.

iPod:

Nothing can change the shape of things to come

I bet he's going to close the stock market by executive order, for a week.

Irish PM w/ a shit-eating grin in the Oval Office.

DJI loses over 2000 points in a couple of hours:

Trump on Fox just now: When you look at the stock market, it is still much higher than when I got here.

I get into puts, and it's hard to wait sitting right there watching each tick, so I find just going away and watching porn for a while. I come back, and it's lower and I've made money.

I think it’s going to bumpity-bumpity-bump further down for quite a while, and quite a fall. We are just getting started. I don’t think it’s too late to get out, though it will be, soon. I can see the market falling another 20%. Probably more, but we’ll see what happens. It may “feel” like it’s already too late, but it is not. If you get out now, and jump back in when it’s a further 20% down, that’s a savings. I foresee at least a 40% fall from the peak.

Considered what it will take to stop this. The entire population, essentially, will have to be infected. It won’t get worse than that. It’s just our generation for whom this is a disaster. The next generation will grow up with this and it will be part of their normal lives. If the virus gets arrested before that, that would be a miracle, but I don’t see it.

Much higher? It's up less than 2,000 points since he entered office. And those 2,000 points can be wiped out by tomorrow.

CNBC is desperate for something, some lie from Cheeto, to make it pop for the rest of the day, so traders can get out.

The market was already overpriced by a factor of two, so it needed to be cut in half just to account for that fact. Then--and only then--do you discount additionally for this virus debacle. Look out below!!!

Although today might be the biggest percent drop in the Dow since the Black Monday crash in '87.

This. Is. AWESOME!!!

Thank you r189.

When the bulls try to push shit higher, it pisses me off. Motherfuckers, you KNOW shit's going to get worse - you're not fooling anyone anymore. Your god Cheeto can't handle this with tweets. Let it fall, bastards.

(I'm heavy in puts lol)

Cramer is on again. I can't stand to listen. What lies is he spewing now? How is he trying to save the cult leader?

I think everyone knows he has it. The top story on the Times is how he met with a Brazilian minister who just tested positive.

I'm really surprised Netflix is down today. If anything, people having to be inside and so many travel-related cancellations, you'd think it would be great for them.

r188 What you're trying to gauge is the state of the market as a whole--i.e. market return/market risk--so the s&p 500 (composed of 500 stocks) is a better measure than the Dow Jones (composed of 30 stocks). If the Dow is popular for some reason other than "it's the higher number" then I don't know what that reason is.

r200 What's your basis for saying the market is/was overpriced by half? What equity pricing model are you using? (I suspect it's just a "hunch" i.e. worthless, but who knows?)

I suspect the markets will take a decent hit over the next few weeks, but I also see a relatively quick recovery once covid blows out (excepting a possible covid reemergence this winter, which could be pretty bad). Even if the markets stay depressed this year, anyone considering selling out because of panic over the dropping market is an idiot.

r206 if they announce that the President has it would the markets care? If he recovers it might ease problems fear. If that 70 year old fast food junky can survive then the rest of us should be ok.

Joking he would actually have THE best doctors.

What short-term thread of hope is the market trying to use at this second to pop things higher? What lie are they desperate to believe right now?

If they announce that he has it, the market will fall because everyone believes it's a big deal if he has it, and because it shows that he has no handle on the disease, and has been hiding a huge piece of news.

r207 probably because Netflix has a shit ton of debt financed projects to stay competitive in the streaming wars going on right now. The virus is halting production which will heart release time tables. Of course Netflix can survive it and viewership may increase as people stay home, but the most recent news is that movie and TV productions are halted or severely limited.

Jim Cramer is sure Trump is intensely working on a plan.

Anyone betting on India or Japan? That things are going to go nuts there? I have puts, and I'm up 300% on the Indias, and 200% on the Japans.

R213, that's hilarious. He's a clown.

The European markets had their worst day ever today.

[quote]CNBC’s Jim Cramer said Thursday that he believes the government is debating some big options to tackle the economic and financial markets crisis arising from the coronavirus pandemic.

[quote]Cramer made these comments after the S&P 500′s first-level, 7% down circuit breakers kicked in and paused trading for 15 minutes and following a call he took live on television around 9:38 a.m. ET on CNBC’s “Squawk on the Street.”

[quote]“I think that’s about to change,” Cramer said about the uncertainty about what further actions the Trump administration may take to deal with the coronavirus fallout.

[quote]“I think that they will perhaps consider the idea that the federal government does not need to be paid during this period so therefore the people, the working people, get paid and are protected,” the “Mad Money” host said.

[quote]“I think they are debating the notion about whether they should have a trust fund ... also debating the notion right now about whether the Federal Reserve should be able to guarantee credit lines,” Cramer said. “The Treasury trust fund would indeed, perhaps, take advantage of the lower rates and make it so that people feel their credit lines would be backed up.”

[quote]“I believe that some of these plans that I mentioned are being debated right now and I feel better,” he said. “You’re going to get clarity.”

Read that last one and tell me your immediate reaction.

[quote] I'm really surprised Netflix is down today. If anything, people having to be inside and so many travel-related cancellations, you'd think it would be great for them.

Everybody knows by now there’s nothing worth watching

I don’t think they’ll ever announce it if he has it. He’s perfect. They’ll say he’s working so hard in the WH he has no time to stand in front of helicopters yelling world policy at the fake media. And they’ll get some plasma from China and infuse him with it. Don’t kid yourself, he won’t die. They’ll do everything to save him and old pricks live while good young people die. He won’t die. He’s too evil and vomit-inducing & he has the best health care in the world.

Sooo if I'm a total noob in investing, what would be some good stocks to buy now?

Airlines, cruise lines, hotel chains, entertainment companies the way things have been going....

NY Fed is providing $500 billion in overnight repo money. Liquidity. Market popping a lot on that.

Can't keep doing that though. In the coming weeks? I don't think so.

Right now anything would work because everything is down r220. From r221’s list I’d start with entertainment and airlines. Cruises might make a grand comeback, but that industry is rough and not vital. Airlines, though an even harder industry are at the very least vital. Entertainment will come back.

Blue chips are also fine. Look into Vanguard accounts. They have low low rates and they outperform individual investors if you plan to stay in the market longterm. Mutual funds will spread your money around.

If you want a get rich somewhat quick thing, then pick a hard hit industry and ride the waves.

R220, still too early to buy. The airlines and cruise lines are all going to go bankrupt. Just be patient. Patience is the hardest thing to do in investing.

r224, Cassandra- would you be so kind to put an alert of somesort? I'm completely at a loss on how to read the market. It'll be for long term retirement purpose (my father died and left a tiny bit of money).

For right now, park it somewhere safe. When we look like we're closer to hitting bottom, then start moving it into riskier places.

[quote] A reminder that I am an inexpert investor, and past behavior of the market is not indicative of future behavior. Anything you do is your responsibility. You should throughly research any decision to buy, sell, or hold. My predictions are meant for entertainment, only. [italic] Cassandra has been wrong plenty of times, btw, but I know that’s hard to believe, haha, because nothing I predict is believable. [/italic] This situation we are in, with this brand new virus, globalized world, and idiotic Administration, is unprecedented- so no one, absolutely no one, can reliably know what is going to happen.

R225, I don’t know how to put in an alert, but I am active here, as long as I am healthy and can post. I used to work in IT at an investment firm, and I was always too busy at my employment to closely manage my money. Now I am retired and am able to focus on my own investments.

My personal goal, is to keep the money that I have. I’ve saved around $400,000 by selling slowly in small tranches since 2018 and especially in February before the crash really got underway, of the remainder that I still had in the market. Thus, I have saved what I need to retire.

I will try to comment as everybody does, when I think we’ve reached the bottom. Bear in mind that the initial cause of this is the virus. If it lets-up, as alleged in China, before spreading to everyone, then life can return to the new normal and the market will pop.

Hilariously, after the Fed announced a rescue attempt, things pared back losses....only to crash again.

Sorry, Jim Cramer. This is going to need from the bottom up, not institution to institution.

Let me ask this - what about all of the stock buy backs those greedy fuckers did with that massive tax break?

Does that mean they're eating their losses? Because they deserve to get kicked in the cunts for that stunt.

The Russell 2K, the index no one talks about, is now lower than Election Day 2016.

Dow down -9.99% just wow.

Down 10% in one day. What would ordinarily be a market correction...happened in just one trading session.

So we just missed tripping the second circuit breaker.

Worst day since Black Monday.

[quote]So we just missed tripping the second circuit breaker.

There's always tomorrow.

Tommorow the DJIA (the only one Trump cares about) will go below 20K. And Trump will scream "fuck you, you fucking dumbfucks!" at Kudlow and Mnuchin. And I will just laugh.

i try to stop bleeding in my account by buying a few inverse ETFs today. i think thats the play now, at least short term.

How long till Mnooch and Kud are out in their asses. Trump needs to blame someone you know.

Might be a good time for the cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment and save the GOP.

CNBC:

Stocks suffer worst plunge since 1987 as Fed fails to ease virus fears

How hard is it for the government to call in some reputable doctors to deal with the virus crisis. Sure, this virus is causing economical damage but Trump is causing complete loss of confidence in the market.

Share buybacks that will destroy Boeing. SAD and deservedly so after all the fuckup with human lives for profit.

So the Treasury markets were on the verge of melting down this morning before the Fed jumped in with a massive bailout. They announced a 1.5 TRILLION dollar buying program this week and committed to buying a trillion dollars a week going forward. That’s pretty unprecedented.

The stock market rallied immediately before rapidly resumed its decline. No confidence.

One thing I don’t understand is where does this trillion dollars a week come from? How does a trillion dollars just appear, like magic?

It's easy to find money when they need to help the rich.

It’s the Donald Trump, even if we are bankrupted I make money casino plan.

He's going to have to take the same path Reagan and Bush Sr. Did with the tax cut and reverse them and then some.

It’s OK. Bargain hunters will put it all back and then some tomorrow.

I would have thought that at down 20%, r247, but we're now down 30% from the high. It took 2008 the better part of the year to get to where we are today after 23 days.

Finally. The Emperor Has No Clothes!

When you're the King of the White House, the whole world's your own Taj Mahal Casino.

Let's face it. tRump is a lousy businessman and the worst person to lead a country. He has no idea what he's doing.

Well that was a waste of HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS.

Put it on my tab.

Futures market is already looking bad.

The breakers will halt trading before getting as bad as '87, but we could end up with a repeat of the original Black Monday or Tuesday.

Those MASSIVE monetary injections won't work because everyone can feel the desperation behind this behavior. The more they'll do, the more they'll fail. It's the end of the game. But for that very reason, I expect Trump to resort to truly desperate measures, even by his standards. I don't know what it will be, but we should truly brace ourselves for it.

[quote] Cramer is on again. I can't stand to listen. What lies is he spewing now? How is he trying to save the cult leader?

Man I hadn't watched Cramer in a couple of years, he was always a little out there, but his ramblings are even more deranged that Trumps.

Trump's incompetence is on FULL display. He is so out of his depth. Joe Biden is going to have his work cut out for him, repairing relations with other nations. The rest of the world might just move on without us and say "fuck you" to the U.S. for ever voting Trump into office.

If Biden gets elected, his presidency may just be a recovery from Trump's. Just repair and recover from the last 4 years.

That may not be an issue. There will likely be a whole lot less countries when this is over. Switzerland can buy Italy for a watch and chocolate truffle right about now.

Maybe Trump's plan is kill you or your retirement stash. Whichever comes first.

European markets were all down double digits yesterday, 10%-16%.

[quote]There will likely be a whole lot less countries when this is over

Oh DEAR.

*fewer

[quote]What's your basis for saying the market is/was overpriced by half? What equity pricing model are you using? (I suspect it's just a "hunch" i.e. worthless, but who knows?)

I didn't say a factor of half--I said a factor of two. And I was being nice when I said the market needs a 50% haircut to return to its historical norm. A 66% haircut is more accurate. And THEN discount from there for this virus outbreak. Oh and don't forget to price in the over-correction as well! Reversion to the mean, bro. Given enough time: It always happens. This time is no different.

R264 Here’s a 10 year chart of the Dow. You can see how inflated it’s been for the past 3 years (since Trump was elected.)

R265 Trump Erasure in action!.

Funny how when a $1.5 trillion stimulus to given to the banks, the GOP doesn’t say “Stimuluses don’t work!”

Yet Mitch McConnell rejects Democrat's coronavirus plan as liberal 'wish list'

And from the DM:

Coronavirus bailout bill to give sick pay to sufferers is in disarray as Donald Trump says he objects to Nancy Pelosi's plans saying it's 'goodies they've been trying to get for 25 years' and Senate Republicans hold it up over abortion

• Donald Trump said Thursday that he is completely against the Democrat's economic stimulus packages

• 'There are things in there that have nothing to do with what we are talking about,' Trump said of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's proposed plan

• 'It's not a way for them to get some of the goodies that they haven't been able to get for the past 25 years,' Trump continued

• Republicans have also expressed they are not happy with Pelosi's proposal

• White House officials claim her new plan includes measures that would provide federal funding for abortions, which is prohibited by the Hyde Amendment

• Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell also said Thursday that Democrats are using the coronavirus crisis to create a 'wishlist' of policies

• He is insisting they are trying to get certain issues passed with an economic stimulus package meant to address fallout from the coronavirus outbreak

• 'It appears ... House Democrats instead chose to produce an ideological wishlist that was not tailored closely to the circumstances,' he said Thursday

• 'One is reminded of the famous comment from President Obama's first chief of staff: 'You never want a serious crisis to go to waste,' the GOP leader recited

Such deplorable the GOPs are. Despicable.

[Quote]OMG. I am on the West Coast. As of this morning - 3-12-20 - I have officially lost 40% of my wealth since February. I only ever had enough to feel a moderate sense of security. Now I am panicked.

save you panic for a month from for now when the putrid corpse of you hubby is rotting in the bedroom and you are expiring on the living room sofa from pneumonia because there are no hospital beds for you or EMT's to remove the bodies

you won't give a fuck about your 401k then

welcome to trump's america

Sometimes I hate people who tell the truth.

[quote]OMG. I am on the West Coast. As of this morning - 3-12-20 - I have officially lost 40% of my wealth since February.

It’s only “lost” if you SELL. Never panic-sell. Wait it out.

What R269 said.

[quote] OMG. I am on the West Coast. As of this morning - 3-12-20 - I have officially lost 40% of my wealth since February. I only ever had enough to feel a moderate sense of security. Now I am panicked.

I don’t think it’s too late to get out of the market, though it is getting to that point. Expect a drop of another 20% from today, at least.

R273 Back to around Nov 2016 level is what I am expecting. A total reversal of the Trump rally. If he still doesn't shape up, it can go lower.

[quote]I don’t think it’s too late to get out of the market, though it is getting to that point. Expect a drop of another 20% from today, at least.

Over what time period, do you think? We'd be into an actually crash at that point.

Sell off in Asia. Nikkei is down bigly.

What's the futures market doing? Also, does anyone have a link that shows them?

R277, not looking that bright.

We are making history today, y'all!!!!!!!

Why the Dow is at risk of the worst week in its 124-year history as coronavirus fear grips Wall Street

It won’t take much to achieve that dubious distinction. The Dow is off 18.03% so far this week and would book the worst weekly decline for the index — which turns 124 years old on May 26 — if it surpasses the 18.15% drop in the week ended Oct. 10, 2008, at the height of the financial crisis that ushered in the 2007-’09 recession (see table attached)

Am I missing something? When I check the DOW futures, they're up.

They're volatile, up and down. They were down earlier but are up now.

Is today a "dead cat bounce"?

Probably, r282.

Things can turn on a dime after 3 when Trump speaks. Apparently this was a spur of the moment thing that he decided to do earlier today so he's either going to wing it or a script is being hastily thrown together.

Guess it's been eating at him that Biden was more presidential yesterday. He's supposed to invoke the Stanford act on a national level. Let's see if he deliver this message without fucking up...again.

ow nothing Steven Miller prepares most of his speeches. Of course all of the glad handing he throws in himself.

CNN just reported that no TelePrompTers have been set up...so Trump is just going to wing it.

Prepare for a market crash as he's speaking.

A 2year old would make a more Presidential speech than Trump.

It doesn’t matter whether he wings it or reads from the teleprompter, he fucks it up. I bet what happened was he saw the incredible negative reaction he got from Wednesday night’s speech and decided it was because of the teleprompter. So now he’s going to wing it.

And in typical Trump fashion...he's making everyone wait.

Dow already down 300 points from when he started.

Also, no joke...he sounds ill.

So US implements the algorithm European countries have implemented for 2 months. Yay us! Tremendous jobs. Long, long hours.

The way Trump looks at these guys you know he has no clue what they're talking about while nodding as if he totally agrees with them.

Market back up to pre-conference levels.

Target, you want to serve customers? How about stocking some hand sanitizer? I've been to my local store every other day and still yet to see a bottle.

I think he was hoping the stock market would bounce up after his Wednesday night speech instead it had a record drop I'm sure this was bothering him since it made him look like a loser. Now every speech will make him look like a loser.

Market obviously likes the press conference. Up 1400 now.

Market up 1600 now.

It's the first time in 2 months that it sounds like the administration finally has the beginnings of a plan to deal with the crisis. No wonder the market is responding positively. It's a shame that it has taken 2 months for them to get their shit together.

Yeah, it's about time. This may be the corner turn in the markets that we were looking for.

Dow is back up. Markets live and ie by Trump’s words.

It took the stock market crash to force Trump to do the right thing. He is a monster.

Up 2000 now. That's a 1000 point gain from the start of the press conference.

Just shows that if he had taken it seriously from the beginning, there might not have been all this market turmoil.

They times the press conference at a perfect time to start the weekend with a market rally. The next Democratic President can learn from these little sparks of genius from this media obsessed Admin. I mean the optics are great. November is such a lifetime away.

WE"RE SO FUCKED

Is that the largest gain in an hour?

You do realize he saying nothing, right? There’s nothing that indicates anything but flailing.

I think the sharp rally at the end was mostly machine trading and shorts forced to close their positions. With big money flow out of the stock market due to uncertainty, it would be hard for a rally to last long.

With so many things shutting down, is the stock market still gonna open Monday morning?

R307 is exactly right, Dump knew this and that’s why the press conference started when it did. He can be very conniving, even is he is a moron.

I don't agree. There was a point during his speech, when it seemed like it was going to be much of nothing yet again, that the market started to lose ground. It wasn't until it became clear there was an actual plan and that he wouldn't hinder the stimulus package being put together that it began to rebound and continued straight up.

The smartest thing that someone talked him into doing was having representatives of the private sector speak. All confidence is lost that Trump will handle this well and now a good part of what has been going so badly is out of the government's hands. This was another boost to the market.

R310, there is no “actual plan,” and nothing substantial has been handed off to the private sector. He also suggested that he was going to fight House Democrats over payroll taxes.

But the market is heavily influenced by the mood of the country. R311 at this pint any plan was seen as an improvement over the Admin sitting on their ass for the past month.

Bingo, r312!

I think he blew it again today though. He gave an impromptu speech prior to Pence's update press conference and basically put Powell on notice while going off about negative interest rates again.

[quote] R243: One thing I don’t understand is where does this trillion dollars a week come from? How does a trillion dollars just appear, like magic?

Good question. The Treasury is using this money to buy commercial bonds on the secondary market, IIRC. This means that companies can issue new bonds to borrow money now, to make up for the lack of commerce. The new bonds won’t be competing with their old bonds, which would make their new bonds, at lower interest rates now, unsellable.

Later, when things settle down, the Treasury could do nothing as the bonds all mature at varying dates. That way, the holdings would be eliminated by attrition. Or they could sell the bonds. After the 2008 crash where the Fed did this, they mostly let the bonds mature, but in more recent years, they started selling some of them. I know Disney, for example, has bonds with 100-year maturation dates.

It is inflationary, but as of now, we’ve seen no evidence of inflation.

Are you sure about a trillion more every week? In the Crash, Congress passed a bill for a total of $700 billion, and that was a big deal then. I can’t imagine a trillion a week.

I know negative interest rates must benefit Dump somehow, but how the hell do they even work?

R314 Yes, $1 trillion a week. The guy on CNBC couldn’t believe it either as he was reading the Fed’s statement on live TV. He kept reading and rereading it on air.

[quote]The New York Fed increased the size of its repurchasing operations on Thursday in order to address the "highly unusual" disruptions in Treasurys markets. It said it would offer $500 billion in a three-month repo operation on both Thursday and Friday. It also said it would offer $500 billion in a one-month repo operation tomorrow. The New York Fed added it would conduct one-month and three-month operations for $500 billion every week for the remainder of the month. This is on top of at least $175 billion in daily overnight repo operations.

Any guess how the market will be on Monday? i don’t think it will be like last Monday, it may open even be higher or at least flat. but then will crash again midday.

Doesn’t Japan give 100 year mortgages? Will the US do that?

R315 I was curious about that as well, and found this explanation at Investopedia (full article at link).

[quote] Negative interest rates refer to a scenario in which cash deposits incur a charge for storage at a bank, rather than receiving interest income. Instead of receiving money on deposits in the form of interest, depositors must pay regularly to keep their money with the bank. This environment is intended to incentivize banks to lend money more freely.

I guess we'll have to stash our cash in the mattress. .. And "incentivize" ... that's a new word to me.

Apparently, the negative interest rate thing is happening in Europe, much to the annoyance of Germany and Trump (although for different reasons).

At that press conference Trump lied about everything—he lies about lots of testing becoming available and google making a website for it and on and on and on.

Markets will tank again

Another example of negative interest rates: you borrow $100,000 but you only have to repay $98,000 over time

But negative interest rate means you put in $100 in your saving account and it will only be worth $98 after a month

That's why Germany isn't happy with it, r323. Germans are big savers.

Ever heard of a mattress or a tin can buried in the backyard?

Problem solved. NEXT!

No, guys, no. The negative rate is what the Fed changes banks and financial companies. Oddly enough, the big banks electronically store their money at the Fed overnight, then they take it out again the next day.

I just opened an account at DiscoverBank where they were bragging about the interest rate they pay, 1.49%. I suppose they could start charging more, given their existing fees, but this isn’t immediately targeted at the average customer. R319, you don’t need your mattress just yet. I think it would be unprecedented to charge for deposits.

Merci, Pierre! 🙂

[quote]Any guess how the market will be on Monday? i don’t think it will be like last Monday, it may open even be higher or at least flat. but then will crash again midday.

Dow futures is predicted to open about 1,000 points lower (at the time of this post).

Good Lord!!

Actually Dow futures are currently up 1,720 points.

It's Saturday... what futures are you guys even talking about?

What the hell? What’s the truth.

rate?

A Fed rate at zero doesn’t mean consumers wouldn’t have any borrowing costs – banks still need to make a profit – but it likely would mean very low monthly interest costs for home and car buyers, as well as businesses and other borrowers. The problem: Far fewer households and businesses will be eager to take out loans if the economy is in recession, says Greg McBride, chief financial analyst for Bankrate.com.

What's the downside?

Seniors and other Americans who depend heavily on income from bank savings would be frustrated by a return to microscopic savings rates below 1%.

Low rates also squeeze the profit margins of banks, who make money by paying interest to depositors and lending it out at higher rates to borrowers. The prospect of slimmer margins is what prompted JPMorgan’s Dimon to say bank officials are considering introducing new fees to bolster earnings if rates dropped to zero.

That could mean raising overdraft charges and ATM fees and adding or increasing monthly maintenance fees for checking accounts, McBride says. Some banks might even hit customers with charges to transfer money or complete other transactions in person rather than online, he says.

What would it mean for the Fed to lower rates below zero?

A negative interest rate means banks would pay a small amount of money each month to park some of their money at the Fed – a reversal of how a bank typically works. Banks, in turn, could pass those interest costs to customers by charging for deposits. Currently, banks earn a small amount in interest by leaving cash at the Fed.

I didn't think the futures traded until tomorrow night when the Asian markets open.

Yeah, I think that number is from Thursday night's futures trading.

What will it be on Monday?

What will it be on Monday?

R336, the futures market indicates the S&P is down about 1%, as of now But a lot can happen before then.

The futures markets aren't open to trade, r338, so they're not up, down or flat.

[quote]Open on Sunday night at 5:00pm CT/6:00pm ET. Unless otherwise noted, all of the above futures products trade during the specified times beginning Sunday night for the Monday trade date and ending on Friday afternoon. 5 p.m.- 3:15 p.m. & 3:30 p.m.- 4 p.m.

There are no global markets open on a Saturday. The first markets open in Asia on Sunday evening.

Apparently, treasuries are getting hard to come by.

R340 That’s why the Fed jumped in with a $1 trillion/week bailout last Thursday.

Looks like it didn't work, r341. That Reuters piece is from today.

BREAKING: FEDERAL RESERVE SLASHES INTEREST RATES TO ZERO.

This is a big dramatic move.

R343 Correction: CNN reporting “NEAR zero.”

WaPo's Heather Long:

Federal Reserve slashes interest rates to ZERO in massive emergency intervention for the US economy

-Fed will buy $700 billion more bonds/MBS -Rates will stay at 0 to 0.25% until FOMC “confident” in turnaround

Pure desperation. They have no more tools in the toolbox or tricks in their bag.

Now it's up to Congress.

The "Weekend Wall Street" is a spread betting site that some traders use to predict the price at which futures will open. It was down around 1000 points most of the weekend until the Fed announcement 10 minutes ago.

R347, that'll never happen. Poor "urban" people might grab some of that money.

looks like they trying everything they can to prop up the stock market or at least stay flat. looks like another very interesting week.

Dow futures down 600 points. Oops.

Oh, shit. I don't think the market is going to react well.

How do low interest rates help if no one is buying anything?? If this lasts much longer we’ll need a stimulus package.

R352, it reeks of desperation.

The irony is now the supply chain is coming back online in China, the consumer demand is taking a dive in Europe and US.

And I see the posts that the market isn't reacting well.

Wow, Trump is a giant asshat who really doesn't understand economics.

Yes, it really does, r354.

i think slashing the rate again is sending negative signal to investors. they should’ve left it as is and let the market find it’s bottom on its own.

I think I just read that futures hit limit down AGAIN. If he just left things at Friday's conference we'd be up or modestly lower. But, nooooooo. He has to interject his stupidity.

Thoughts and prayers, everyone.

CNBC headline: Stock futures plummet - hit ‘limit down’ - even as Fed slashes rates; Dow futures off 1,000 points

They've just now opened, and limit-down is their circuit breaker. No more futures trading tonight.

It might tart low tomorrow but I expect the market to rally again. Trump never loses for long. This jerk always pressures his way towards a good spin. The Fed bailed him out again.

“MASSIVE EMERGENCY INTERVENTION” is not a reassuring headline, guys.

I'm so pissed right now. All the fuck he needed to do was, literally, DO NOTHING.

R363 Fed Chairman Powell is who did this, not Trump. Trump is using it to do a victory lap though.

Trump threatened to fire Powell or demote him in Friday's press conference, r364. This is all on Trump.

R365 Trump’s been bullying Powell to lower interest rates on Twitter for weeks. Powell unfortunately caved. He could have stood his ground and let Trump fire him but he caved.

Everything trump touches dies.

The Lard-Ass Touch.

Well, if there is a bright light in this disaster, if you want to call it a bright light...we are pretty close to where the markets were when Trump took office.

[quote] R343: was Powell bullied into this by Trump?

I don’t think the head of the Fed would bow to Trump. Also, hr can only be fired for cause, like a drunk driving accident, but not for doing his job.

[quote] R345: Pure desperation. They have no more tools in the toolbox or tricks in their bag.

Because Trump already used all those tools to goose an already growing economy. It’s entirely Trump so fault for that. (Throwing money at the military; cutting taxes). In addition, he disbanded the CDC department that works on things like pandemics, too save pennies. I think he’s behind the lack of tests, because it would “ruin his ratings”, which he actually said.

Plus, Trump lies so much, no one knows what to believe.

If there were any things he inherited from the previous administration that he didn’t like, he had three years to correct those things. This disaster is entirely on him.

"I don't think [the Fed] would have done this unless they felt the financial markets were at significant risk of freezing up tomorrow. They're very concerned the financial markets won't work. So I don't know how the markets take solace in this." Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics, told CNN Business.

[quote] R353: How do low interest rates help if no one is buying anything??

R353, refinance your mortgage, for one thing. I’m going from 4.125% to 3.00%; mortgage, which means a savings of $1000 every year, even though I’m taking $50.000 in cash out and switched from a 30-year to 15-year term. I hopE I survive to benefit from it.

Also, a ReFi with cash-out can be used to pay off loans at higher rates.

Sometimes, a rescue plan can makes the investment pros more skittish, as it displays desperation that perhaps others know about but isn’t being widely disseminated.

Dow futures as of 8:00 pm 3/15/20 indicates a drop of about 4.5% tomorrow.

The Fed's out of tricks. We're totally fucked.

I thought futures already halted earlier @ 6pm? Anyways, are they saying that they cut the rate to avert an even bigger crash in the stock market tomorrow? that if they didnt do it , the market will free fall even more? Hmmkay.

yes, r377, I'm not sure if the half hour rule or uptick rule applies with futures.

R377 Those circuit breakers just stop trading for a period of time, 15 minutes I think.

Limit down says that if the futures drop more than a 1000 points, they can't keep trading. That's where we're at now.

Futures are commodities traded on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. They use the uptick rule. Trading only resumes if someone bids above the "limit down" price. Don't hold your breath waiting for an uptick.

[quote] I don't think [the Fed] would have done this unless they felt the financial markets were at significant risk of freezing up tomorrow. They're very concerned the financial markets won't work. So I don't know how the markets take solace in this."

Reported on CNN but Muriel won’t accept the link.

see r372

[quote]I don't think [the Fed] would have done this unless they felt the financial markets were at significant risk of freezing up tomorrow.

That’s what was starting to happen in the credit markets last Thursday when the Fed jumped in with their massive $1 trillion bailout. The market was starting to seize up. Now we have another ‘MASSIVE EMERGENCY INTERVENTION,’ three days later, on a Sunday night. Not reassuring.

However, Fed officials and other central bankers were likely cheering the reaction in the currency market, where the dollar DXY, -0.357% weakened significantly versus major rivals. As part of Sunday’s action, the Fed and five other major central banks announced they were activating swap lines in an effort to smooth dollar shortages caused by a global scramble for the currency last week.

Some observers argued that while the Fed’s moves were justified, the timing of the announcement ahead of the open of Asian markets late Sunday and in lieu of a policy meeting that had been sent for this week appeared desperate.

“When you have folks in power acting in a very panicky way, doing off-scheduled meetings and throwing everything they can at the situation, that doesn’t send a very reassuring signal to the general population.” said Max Gokhman, head of asset allocation at Pacific Life Fund Advisors, in an interview.

Stocks fell sharply in volatile trading last week, with major indexes SPX, +9.28% DJIA, +9.36% COMP, +9.34% posting their fastest fall from all-time highs to a bear market — defined as a 20% pullback from a recent peak — on record. Underscoring the volatility, stocks on Thursday witnessed the biggest one-day drop since the October 1987 stock-market crash, then bounced sharply higher Friday for the biggest one-day gain since 2008.

Meanwhile, stresses emerged in the Treasury market, prompting the Fed last week to take action to boost liquidity in an effort to ensure smooth functioning. Gyrations in the Treasury market last week saw usual market correlations break down, adding to financial market jitters.

“The New York Fed’s resumption of Treasury purchases late last week were a first step to help alleviate the strains” in the Treasury market. The Fed’s announcement today to buy an additional $500 billion of Treasurys should over time restore the liquidity and the smooth functioning of the Treasury market,” said Joachim Fels, global economic adviser at PIMCO, in a note Sunday night.

Is the trading floor even able to be open right now?

Yes the trading floors will open, at least until trading hits another limit down where another circuit breaker will halt trading be for 15 minutes. Dow futures remain stuck at limit down of -1094 points, meaning there must be zero attempts happening to trade at higher prices. It looks like an ugly start for the day when it opens in a few hours.

People are talking of closing the stock markets in Europe for the rest of the week starting tonight. Wow!

Dow is scheduled to open down 1,242 points.

Watch for Trump to schedule another press conference an hour before the market closes on Friday, so he can say the normal weekend uptick is all his doing (again).

The Fed is out of tricks except for monetizing debt, which Congress needs to appropriate. Since no once in either party cares about deficits anymore, it really shouldn't be so hard a lift. A $1 trillion relief and infrastructure bill might do the trick. That's where we're headed.

R389 Cheeto was so happy when Fed lowered rates. What a businessman!

[quote]Yes the trading floors will open

They actually want to have people on the floor? They could just as easily do everything electronically right now.

The Asian markets haven't fallen that much, but the European ones are significantly down. The CAC is off 10%.

On Friday, the Dow was up 898 points as TRump began to speak. As he blathered on it dropped 350.

Then the CEOs began speaking. The Dow soared (possibly because it looked like competency was being introduced) and finished more than 1200 points up at 4 p.m. Two minutes later, after the markets closed, The Fat One again took the mic.

Dow futures have pretty much been down ever since.

Prediction is that breaker one will go immediately after the market opens.

This should give up all of the gains from Friday.

This is the Trump that bankrupted casinos.

I love it, trump's head will explode. Plus he can't do his ego boosting rallies. Narcissists physically feel pain when they lose their narcissistic suppliers.

From CNBC.com - stock market futures trading remains suspended due to lack of upticks. Pre-market trading of stock index ETFs indicates the likelihood of a "limit down" stock market opening.

[quote]Stock market futures hit “limit down” levels of 5% lower, a move made by the CME futures exchange to reduce panic in markets. No prices can trade below that threshold, only at higher prices than that down 5% limit.

[quote]Dow Jones Industrial Average futures were off by more than 1,000 points, triggering the limit down level. S&P 500 and Nasdaq 100 futures were also at their downside limits.

[quote]This led traders to look at the SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (SPY) — which tracks the S&P 500 — for a better indication of how the market will open. The SPY ETF plummeted 10% in the premarket, signaling that a “circuit breaker” will be triggered shortly after the regular session starts. ETFs that track the Dow and Nasdaq 100 — the SPDR Dow Jones Industrial Average ETF Trust (DIA) and Invesco QQQ Trust — were also down more than 8%.

Completely ignorant of the market, but my impression is the Trump administration just keeps flinging dollars at the market to no avail. Is this accurate? Are the going to run out of “ammo” to do anything soon?

Here we go.

Breaker is in.

Wow, down 2,250 and hit the first circuit breaker on open. That must be a first!

Trading's back, still dropping.

Each time the Fed has cut rates, the market following by diving. Each time Trump opens his piehole, the market drops. You would think someone would get the hint.

S&P's down 11. 13 is the next breaker.

19,804.72. That the tripwire where Trump should get a million tweets telling him he's a FAILURE.

Oh, dear sweet Lord in heaven. I'm afraid the Dow will bottom out at 15000!!!!

Buffett was right when he called a 50% drop about two or three weeks ago.

Europe is right. Close the markets.

I've posted this before...Trump will kill us or our retirement funds. Whichever comes first.

WH is planning another presser at 3:30. I can't figure out if they're expecting what they say to cause a rally, or are trying to prevent any further sell-offs.

Haven't they been doing daily CV updates at 3:30? It may be just that. And hopefully they lock Trump in the Oval Office till it's over. Last thing this country needs is more mixed messages from him.

From what the CNBC idiots were saying, the time was changed. I don't know from what to what, though.

He's trying to kill both, R411.

Actually no, he's not actively trying to kill us or the stock market, he's just so fucking stupid and incompetent that everything he touches dies.

What else can they monetarily? Powell was reacting to Trump saying he was going to demote him lol. Now they don't have the interest rate lever, basically.

I have to admit I really enjoy this. Only 2-3 weeks ago it looked like Trump was right on track for re-election and suddenly the dumbfuck is confronted with a real crisis and people hopefully realize what a massive fraud and narcissistic failure our "leader" really is. What will he tell his deplorable fan base at his rallies now that he can no longer claim responsibility for a booming economy, stock market rally and job, jobs, jobs? His uneducated cultists are probably even the first who will lose their minimum wage jobs without health insurance, sick leave or other benefits. Will he mail them all checks to support them the next couole of months or will his rich friends get another tax cut and bail outs?

R414, the presser was supposed to be at 10:30 and was switched to3:30.

I wouldn't say "Trump was on track to reelection", since he's been historically unpopular since week three of his administration.

Putting the dumbest person in America in the White House was perhaps a bad idea after all.

Good god, I hope he isn't locking down the US.

So they are going to try the “I gave a speech and the market went up” routine at closing again?

BUY HIGH AND SELL LOW

The luckiest president to take over the economy, then he's fucked it all up bigly.l

CNN is saying the presser is about a national curfew.

Martial law (or in DL speak: Marshall Law) is here.

He's probably going to brag about a stimulus package (aka bailout) that is currently being worked on by the House.

He needs to just shut up and let the markets handle it. He can't gaslight them up during a pandemic.

He also might try to bash the Democrats and the media again, blaming them for everything.

Whatever. I hope he keels over mid-speech. And I hope the sycophants like Jared around him are stressed out from him screaming at them and throwing tantrums.

[quote]CNN is saying the presser is about a national curfew.

Well, that's terrifying.

No less than L'il Marco is refuting that.

For all the idiot Trumptards telling people to go to the bars and stores because freedom - how will they react to Trump forcing them to stay indoors at night? I hope they stocked up on guns to take to the streets, like they keep telling people to do.

Nobody has a foam party before 10pm!

....

I just read this from some reporter...

Conflicting reporting about a "national curfew." I suspect, given fact challenges with this WH, that there are going to be recommended guidelines for nighttime activity. They will be strongly recommended but not a "curfew." Anyway, i"m all for national standards. #coronavirus Twitter · 3 mins ago

White House is now denying a curfew and travel restrictions.

Fuck, my brother is suppose to fly back home tomorrow. He'd better be on that plane. God, please don't lock down domestic travel.

R409 I’m not sure about the Dow bottoming out at 15000, it may even go lower. But as far as bottoming out goes, I’d like to see the dancer at R430 attempt it.

The blond guy who’s dancing in swim trunks is HAWT R430

What I don’t understand is people who assumed the 25-30% free money they got was “theirs”. No market gain should be considered real unless you cash out. Like the Bernie Madoff victims who are basically getting the money they put in back - but feel cheated because they “lost” their 100% gains.

Madoff and the stock market are entirely different things, but I agree that it's all a fantasy until you have cash on hand.

All their tricks, and things are still deep in the red.

Looks like the market went into a holding pattern as it wait for today's press conference.

[quote] Amid widespread panic, the Fed just fired the last bullet in its gun wildly into the air to no effect.

So there 's a conference? Is it timed again before the market closes - hoping for a reversal?

So basically it's a press conference to lecture younger people to take this seriously. And, it's dropping the market...again.

Every stupid comment seems to drop the market by 50-100 points.

We're basically back at the session lows.

Down 400 points and counting since he started speaking.

Looks like we're moving up a bit since it he said they aren't going to focus on the markets during the crisis but will look at them afterward.

We're close again to the second 13% circuit breaker.

On the upside, American gun sales are the best since Sandy Hook, according to the Grauniad today.

Yeah, we're going to close at the lows.

This is the second time in a week where Trump has managed to deliver the worst day since the '87 crash.

Wow, just wow. We're down 2999. The market is on sale.

The world's greatest economist Larry Kudlow says I should buy now, when the market is low. I think I'm gonna wait another week when it's even lower.

Larry Kudlow - super genius

Larry Kudlow is an entertainer, not a subject matter expert, like Trump .

Well, the prediction is that the majority of airlines will be bankrupt by may, but I'll get right on that, Lar.

The S&P 500 is down 30% from its peak. What fools these mortals be!

The market is incredibly oversold right now. Only problem is no one has any idea where the bottom will be..

Italy's death toll doesn't bode well for the world economy either. And this article really brought tears to my eyes.

When the doctors make the calls, they try not to give false hope: They know that one out of two patients in intensive care with the disease caused by the virus is likely to die.

As the COVID-19 epidemic expands and the disease progresses, these beds are in increasing demand, especially because of the breathing problems the illness can bring. Every time a bed comes free, two anaesthesiologists consult with a specialist in resuscitation and an internal medicine physician to decide who will occupy it.

Age and pre-existing medical conditions are important factors. So is having a family.

“We have to take into account whether older patients have families who can take care of them once they leave the ICU, because they will need help,” says Marco Resta, deputy head of Policlinico San Donato’s Intensive Care Unit.

Even if there is no chance, he says, you have to “look a patient in the face and say, ‘All is well.’ And this lie destroys you.”

It's not about suffocating in your bed it's about the Dow Jones Average you dumbfucks.

Futures are up slightly...

Dow (INDU) futures gained 28 points, or about 0.1%, on Monday evening. S&P 500 (SPX) futures were up about 0.1%, and Nasdaq (COMP) futures dipped down less than 0.1%.

R459 Yipee! A bounce of 28 points! We just need like around 2970 points more.

r460, i'll take an a slight increase over another session of locked limit down.

I see a bounce tomorrow. People are in overreaction mode - no one knows where this is headed.

R462, I know. It’s headed down. I don’t mean tomorrow, necessarily, but over the near future. We’re not near the bottom.

Come back to the thread dedicated to you, Cassandra!

Agreed, Cassandra, please (also) post in your thread so we know where to find your predictions.

why are you people poaching posters? kind of mean of you considering part 1 was around first.

R458 - Go fucking ask your eye doctor to remove your fucking cataracts, you senile fat slob. Or maybe just gag and die and don't have to read relevant stories.

[bold]The Dow Drops Bigly on Coronavirus fears[/bold]

Not to mention that Cassandra has no more insight or information than any of the rest of us have, particularly since he/she insisted that we all needed to get out of the market in 2018, which means that we'd have missed the run-up in 2019.

R468... you do realize that anyone who sold in 2018 is way ahead of everyone else? Who cares if they participated in the run-up of 2019 if they also participated in the shit-down of 2020.

I got out of some of my positions after the first 1000 point drop. I don't need the absolute highest. The signs were there that it was going down and I want to be in cash because this will rebound shortly after the pandemic is over.

Futures are now limit up. big opening expected tomorrow

R469, you do realize that nobody can time the market, right? And that people who try generally do worse than those who stick to their plans.

[quote]anyone who sold in 2018 is way ahead of everyone else?

Anyone who sold 2 weeks ago is WAY ahead of everyone too. Hindsight is 20/20 and trying to time the market is a fool’s errand.

[quote] R448: Not to mention that Cassandra has no more insight or information than any of the rest of us have, particularly since he/she insisted that we all needed to get out of the market in 2018, which means that we'd have missed the run-up in 2019.

Poindexter at R468 is mischaracterizing what Cassandra has said. I’m sorry to repeat myself but, I started selling in 2018 in small tranches and continued for over a year, a little at a time. I wrote about this in 2018. By Feb 2020, my normal mix of 100% very aggressive investments was then about 50% cash, 50% aggressive.

As I wrote before Poindexter cherry-picked and misrepresented my prognostications, early in this crash, I said this was a correction and I was getting out, and I did. I kept saying that we weren’t near the bottom while some goober, probably this same Poindexter, kept saying it was a buying opportunity. Well, I suppose it was, if your goal was bankruptcy.

So, where do I stand? I have considerably more money than I had in 2018, and an inconsequential amount less than my all time high. I consider myself lucky to have been following the news and not the soaps on the week in February when things really fell apart. If you had misunderstood what I meant in 2018, rejoice, whores, because you’d be ahead of where you’d be if you were invested as aggressively as I initially was, and took the elevator to the ground floor over the last four weeks.

I hope that satisfies Poindexter. For now.

R472. Exactly my point! No one can time the market; those who got out at the end of 2019 were lucky, but the vast majority didn’t, so what’s the point of being in it if you lost it all anyway?

Wait, 128 points positive puts the Dow limit up?

r476 The stock index futures have been trading all night. The Dow is currently trending up over 1 percent.

I know, but that's all it takes for Limit Up?

So, Trump's press conference, where he pretended to 'Act Presidential', is actually working to sooth the markets? It's so easy for this idiot to "win".

Never mind the dow is still playing limbo.

r478 The stock index futures trading limit is 5 percent down or up. Trading was halted last night due to "limit up", but only for a short time.

Dow dips below 20,000 in volatile trading - 28 min's ago.

This is CNN's Markets daily Blog. It doesn't sound good at all.

So we're going to be flat today at best.

And this is all before the economic impact really hits if this drags into May or beyond.

These are the foreshocks, and Trump had the Fed fire all the bullets into the air.

Flat wouldn't be bad. It would still leave us high than when Trump took office. Putting the market into perspective, people should still be richer today then 4 years ago.

[quote]Putting the market into perspective, the 1% should still be richer today than 4 years ago.

FTFY.

More Fed interventions. Turned a bit positive.

I was wondering what happened, r486.

Stock market is a sea of green on this St. Patty’s day.

[quote]No one can time the market; those who got out at the end of 2019 were lucky, but the vast majority didn’t, so what’s the point of being in it if you lost it all anyway?

You could have said the same thing about the tech stock crash of 2000, or the brief crash after 9/11, or the massive crash of 2008. And, in the meantime, I've been in the market this entire time and the average return on my investments over the past 25 years is roughly 7.5%.

That's why I'm in the market, because I didn't "lose it all, anyway." There are few other investment options that will offer that level of return that consistently.

I don't necessarily see all these bounces as an overall sign of health either.

R488, well the crisis is over then, I guess. No more Covid-19!

It's got nothing to do with "health," r490. The stock market is sensitive to financial issues, issues specific to certain companies and sectors, economic issues, and, above all, crowd psychology. That's why pretty much everyone's best advice is to invest in index funds, have a balanced portfolio, and ignore the ups and downs, adjusting as you need to rebalance and as you get older and closer to retirement.

If you have an alternative investment, or set of investments, that offers a similar rate of return over the long haul, I think everyone here would be delighted to hear about it.

What I'm saying is that I don't think what's going on is a mark of stability.

Oh, gosh, no it's not anywhere close to stable. Rallying within a bear market are quite common. Even big rallies. It's the volatility you need to keep your eye on with extreme volatility being not so good.

Unless there's a last-minute rally, it appears the lion's share of today's intraday gains are wiped out.

R495, I refreshed Google Finance and it shows many of the indices showing gains today. Not enough to make up for the losses yesterday but definitely gains for the day. I'm checking because I want to tax loss harvest for one of my accounts but the gains from today will likely not make the loss big enough to harvest. Are you seeing something else?

It was up over 1000 at one point. I'd seen it drop back to just under 400 briefly. It's in the 600s currently.

If NYC goes to shelter-in-place they'll have to go all online, and I can't imagine they're not going to get seriously spooked by that.

"Essential businesses" are exempt from shelter in place orders.

Do we consider the stock market, which has the capability to be fully electronic, an essential business?

Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin reportedly predicted 20% unemployment unless the Government does something.

anybody know why are futures down billy and seemingly erasing all of today’s gain? the market is getting ridiculously comical now.

R501 Futures are down 500 points or so. It came out yesterday that China’s economy took a much larger than expected hit from this and ours likely will too. People are starting to talk about not only a recession but a possible worldwide depression. That plus the market hates uncertainty and no one knows what is about to happen with this thing.

R501, that's what a bear market does, as R494 says. It rallies a bit, then people remember how bad things really are and it falls again.

Did the news that the US infection count jumped 5x in a week come out after the markets closed?

R504 That “news” is a non-factor. It’s a result of more tests being done. Not “news.”

R505, I know it's the result of more tests being done. It's still news.

How do you short stocks? I have no faith this will hold - but my account seems to only allow buy and sell trades.

I just saw on MSNBC that there are 68 CV patients in ICUs in NYC. Now THAT’s news (and scary.)

R507 You can just buy short ETF like DXD (short Dow) or QID (short QQQ).

Thx R509

r501, I think it's the markets reaction to the uncertainty. I saw these wild swings before the 2000 and 2009 crashes.

R510 Also note, those are 2x short, so they are designed to move more than the underlying index percentage-wise. Here's a longer list of short or inverse ETFs.

News from Japan.

Well that's encouraging, r513.

I have seen articles over the years saying the Dow Theory showed ominous signs for the stock market, but of course the bear market ended up not coming all those times. So did anyone notice such Dow Theory article appearing before this crash?

Plunge, Baby, Plunge. Below 18000 and Trump is dead in the water!

[bold]Trump Told Mnuchin to Go Big, and a $1 Trillion Stimulus Emerged[/bold]

Even Trump’s son, Barron, had asked his father how bad it would get.

The assembled Republican senators had largely spent their careers branding themselves as fiscal hawks. Many had criticized bailouts of banks and the auto industry during the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations. Gone from the package was a payroll tax cut that some Republicans had long advocated, replaced by direct payments to Americans -- checks, essentially. Even close Trump allies like Lindsey Graham balked.

The shift was particularly disorienting considering that the president just days ago had downplayed the potential impact of the virus and said that bailouts for the airline and cruise industries might not even be necessary.

One White House official said that Trump’s aides had received alarming information from businesses in recent days, including data from credit card companies that showed purchases falling off a cliff. Americans simply aren’t buying anything, the official said.

The White House is aware that the Dow Jones Industrial Average, a benchmark the president has long treated as a barometer for his own presidency, is hovering near its level on Trump’s inauguration. Trump’s aides are conscious all the stock market gains under his presidency are likely gone, but they’ve given up on defending that calling-card of his re-election campaign and are focused on responding to the growing crisis in the real economy, the official said.

The official said that recent conversations with lawmakers have been laced with fear and concern, and a desire for dramatic action. The White House hopes to pass a stimulus plan through the Senate by Saturday, the official said.

But even Tom Cotton, an Arkansas Republican who has been one of the loudest voices on Capitol Hill calling for an aggressive response to the outbreak, told his colleagues they should consider hitting the pause button to ensure the legislation is written so that Americans receive relief as soon as possible.

The speed and scale of Trump’s course-correction underscored the growing realization to everyone in the room that the coronavirus now poses an existential threat to the health and security of nearly every American. Fiscal conservatives like Cotton, Utah’s Mitt Romney, and Missouri’s Josh Hawley were signaling support for the president’s plan to paper the nation with direct payments from the U.S. Treasury for the first time since the Bush tax cuts.

Leaving the meeting, Mnuchin told reporters: “I know there’s been some rumors of the number. It’s a big number.”

More and more economists including those from Wall Street’s biggest banks have declared that the outbreak has already triggered a global recession. The debate is no longer if it will happen, but how long it will last and how deep it will run.

Efforts to slow the pace of infections has shut down swaths of economies around the globe and data from China -- the first to be hit by what is now a pandemic -- show a harder hit to its economy than originally projected.

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. forecast in a note Sunday that the U.S. economy will shrink 5% in the second quarter after a 0% gain in gross domestic product growth in the first three months of the year.

Thanks for sharing that article, R516. Very sobering.

R516 The economy will shrink by 5% Quelle horreur! Your life will shrink by 100%. WTF!

R518 - I have zero life to begin with, how could it even shrink from 0? NEXT!

[bold]World leaders vow vast spending, and New Yorkers face the prospect of “shelter in place.” [/bold]

Nations around the world waged a two-front war on Wednesday: fighting the spread of the virus through ever tightening restrictions on people’s movements and stabilizing economies severely damaged by those efforts.

The White House is seeking more than one trillion dollars to blunt the financial fallout from the sudden and drastic changes to daily life caused by the coronavirus.

Germany has promised $600 billion to help businesses and individuals. British leaders said they would throw more than $420 billion at the crisis. The European Union promised hundreds of billions to support member states. Leaders in France, Spain, Italy and dozens of other nations have pledged to spend whatever is needed to meet the moment.

To put that in context — and to give a sense of the scale of the current crisis — the United States appropriated about $200 billion in today’s money for the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Europe after World War II.

But even as governments and central banks around the world promised to use all the fiscal and monetary policy instruments in their arsenal to prevent an economic collapse, the ripple effects of closing borders, locking down entire nations and telling people to stay in their homes continued to swell.

Wall Street, rocked by wild swings, was poised to have another rough day. Global markets fell sharply on Wednesday as worries about the world economy persisted.

Around the world, cities expressed growing concern about funding for vital services after revenue disappeared virtually overnight.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs New York City’s subways and two commuter railroads, said it desperately needed $4 billion from the federal government.

With new infections continuing to rise in the city, Mayor Bill de Blasio said 8.6 million residents could be told to “shelter in place” within the next 48 hours. However, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo pushed back against that idea.

The term “shelter in place” has previously been associated with hurricanes and snowstorms — events of limited duration where people could be confident that, after a period of hardship, life would generally get back to normal.

But “social distancing” is the new normal for the foreseeable future, increasingly enforced by law.

It was unclear what a “shelter in place” order would look like in New York.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, where restrictions were expanded late Tuesday to include more than eight million people, downtown streets were deserted, but there were many reports of people still going to parks and socializing.

"The European Union promised hundreds of billions to support member states."

So millions of people will probably lose their jobs in the next couple of months, businesses will struggle, but the UK left the EU just 1 month before the coronavirus crisis hit the globe. Are they on their own now and have to deal with this alone? Or are the technically still part of the EU and entitled to relief funds since the transitional period ends next year? Now would be a great time to stick together and support each other with collapsing healthcare systems and economic growth, but the UK has to deal with this alone now. Too bad.

Why don't we hear more about the consequences the UK is facing after leaving the EU just before the crisis?

Below 20K.

Song for the markets, celebrating our going "Right Back Where We Started From."

U.S. Stocks Sink With Bonds; Crude Oil Tumbles: Markets Wrap - Bloomberg

Financial markets continued to spasm Wednesday, with U.S. stocks reversing Tuesday’s rally, as the economic fallout from the pandemic outpaces the massive response from governments and central banks.

The S&P 500 tumbled about 5%, resuming a sell-off that’s taken it 29% from its record. The index rallied 6% Tuesday after the Trump administration considered up to $1 trillion in spending and the Federal Reserve dusted off crisis-era programs to stabilize financial markets.

Treasuries were steady after the biggest yield jump since 1982 and municipal bonds extended deepest rout since 1987 as markets braced for the potential flood of spending. European bonds came in for a bashing. Oil dropped to an 18-year low. The dollar strengthened a seventh straight day, while the pound hit its lowest level against the greenback since 1985.

Governments have pledged or are considering about $1.14 trillion in fiscal support to offset the economic shock from the pandemic, with the Trump administration moving toward a big package, but the virus continues to spread at a pace that is forcing massive shutdowns across the globe.

“The missing fundamental ingredient for a sustainable recovery in risk appetite is some evidence that the growth of global Covid-19 infection rates is peaking,” said Paul O’Connor, head of multi-asset at Janus Henderson Investors. “Clearly, we are not there yet.”

The planned U.S. stimulus could amount to $1.2 trillion, aiming to stave off the worst impact of a crisis that already looks set to plunge many of the world’s economies into recession. Meantime, the Federal Reserve reintroduced additional crisis-era tools to stabilize financial markets. Those responses came after stresses appeared in the short-term funding markets.

“I don’t think we’re out of the woods yet in terms of liquidity,” Mark Konyn, chief investment officer at AIA Group in Hong Kong, told Bloomberg TV. “It’s a question of when the fiscal measures will have the most efficacy.”

In Germany, Angela Merkel said the government will not rule out joint European Union debt issuance to help contain the impact.

Elsewhere, Bloomberg’s industrial-metals index dropped for a third day, with copper, nickel and aluminum among the biggest losers. Gold resumed losses as traders sold the metal to cover margin calls in other markets.

OF COURSE, Trump asked for as much money as he could get his hands on. This is like a huge gift to a con artist like him who loves profiting on others peoples debt. We are allowing him unlimited access to endless debt to buy an election. And no one can say no because politically they look like bad guys. Dems should point out he gave $1 trillion to corporations 3 years ago - for NO reason.

We are 53 points away from where we were the day before Trump's inauguration.

Keep calm and carry on.

Which means nobody really “lost” money. Just that the foolish falsely believed that they were suddenly rich by some magical thinking for the last 4 years. Just like the Madoff investors.

We're flirting with a break trip.

I was expecting the news of the specifics of the stimulus package to cause a huge swing up. Not so much.

My take on it r526 is that a one time shot of $1000 isn't enough. They would have done better to up unemployment benefits and keep benefits in place until unemployment drops below a predetermined rate. I mean unemployment is expected to hit 20% so that $1000 for people who are still working does what? It's not going to do much when we are looking at an unemployment problem with a longer timeline.

Deficits don't matter. Unless they are racked up when the Democrats are in the White House and in control of the Senate.

Carnival Corp is just getting hammered. Their 52 week high was almost $60/share and now it's under $10.

Although Royal Caribbean is getting it worst. High of $135, today under $25.

Surprisingly, Disney, which is squeezed both on travel and on entertainment, has had much less of a percentage drop.

Yeah, the $1,000 check is gimmicky especially if it's a one time check as I understand it? If you're in LA, that's not even going to cover one's month rent or mortgage. It's better than nothing but it's barely a band aid. Too late to point out how we should have been funding stronger social welfare services and worker and income equality...

With the indices down again, I am tempted to buy but am scared to lower my cash total. If unemployment hits, I may regret it. And how much lower will the market go down once the death number increase significantly? Or a few months from now when US (and Europe) has been shut down for awhile?

Is the $1,000 per person or household? Kids included? I think most people pay higher rent or mortgages than 1k a month. This will only safe you for a month if you just lost your job.

Dow currently at 19,887.

And now we are below where we were prior to Inauguration Day. Woo hoo!

I would rather up the max unemployment payments than get a measly $1000. In California, the most you can get is $450/week. In Illinois, it's almost $1500/week.

[quote]Surprisingly, Disney, which is squeezed both on travel and on entertainment, has had much less of a percentage drop.

Disney is much better diversified than the Carnival or Royal Caribbean.

Yeah, this will be a bonanza for Disney +.

Triggered!

Bill Ackman on CNBC is scaring everyone. Stuff is dumping now.

Ackman can't breathe. holy fuck.

Delta lost $2 billion revenue for the month.

Ackman said "shitshow" on CNBC just now lol

Halted.

[quote]Dow currently at 19,887.

Almost there! 19,732 on Jan 19, 2017

Well my Vanguard international investment is now underwater. Price is lower than when I bought in early 2016--you know, when we had that other president.

Ackman is hot but he's being really girly freaking out like this.

Personally, I like hot girly men.

That was terrifying. Ackman talking so fast, saying everything is going to collapse. Millions will die.

This is the fourth breaker trip in two weeks.

They've been in place I think since 87. I can only remember a trip one other time, during the dotcom crash. I'm sure there were ones after 9/11, but this has been a bigly screw-up.

20% unemployment projected by the Treasury.

I missed it, what show was Ackerman on?

Big 3 automakers shutting all factories in the US immediately. Kudlow has been calling them begging them not to do layoffs.

r546 how worried do you think Trump is right now. Like damn, if he had taken this seriously in January at least he could just blame the virus, but he fucked up. The next jobs numbers will be a mess. Absolute mess around the world.

Yeah, Trump certainly can be credited with many unprecedented events. Bigly!

They need to put that on YouTube. Ackman was incredible. Like a script writer. It was really scary.

Opps Ackman, not Ackerman

Will the WH print out today's graph for Trump to sign? I want a copy.

DOWN goes America! DOWN goes America!

Approximately, 1400 points and we're back to the end of 2014.

It reached below the number of the day Trump took office, bitches!

Dow down 2000+

Anyone have good puts?

Was going to say I would have more money if I had hid my principle under the mattress in 2016. But I have been getting quarterly dividends. But a few more days like today and it will be true.

I feel like I'm in one of those scenes in movies where you're part of the regime in charge and everything is collapsing, and you feel chills and start looking out of the sides of your eyes to see how everyone else is reacting, and you're trying to figure out how to get to the escape pods.

I am honestly surprised that it keeps escalating. Wall Street's boys Trump and Mnuchin are actually announcing concrete plans, and things go into freefall.

As far as all the airlines asking for a bailout....well, if they didn't spend all their money on avocado toast...

10 year chart in link.

R563 but the plans aren't helpful for a 20% unemployment scenario. The $1000 bucks right now does very little and depending on where you live, it does even less than very little. And he's tremendously late in having production shift to masks and ventilators.

But hey, that big tax cut sure did stimulate the economy.

Have the bodies started falling out of the windows yet?

There is a video at link of Bill Ackman's plan to fix this. It's so drastic that no one will sign on to it, at least not now.

This is the photo CNBC is using for today's latest distress.

Ackman is so fucking hot but that was nuts.

You think we'll scrape 19000 today?

R570, easily.

I'm chillin' like a villain with all my money in 2.5% certificates of deposit lol. Everyone told me how stupid I was and about how much "money I was losing" by not being in the market over the past few years. But I'm old enough now to know a bubble when I see one, and I don't play in bubbles. I worked way too fucking hard for my money to lose it in a bubble. I'd rather lose a percent or so to inflation each year than lose 50% of my net worth in the inevitable collapse. When the Dow hits 15,000 and I *may* start nibbling, but I think it'll go a whole lot lower than that given the present situation so we'll see. Bring on the bloodshed!

Oh and you guys should've seen the victory dance I did today when the Dow fell below Trump's starting point! I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS DAY!!!! GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!

^^^^

R572 Hope your loot can buy a a new pair of these..

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Below 19000. Hour and a half to go.

I can't help but think we'd be hurting but nowhere close to this if we had a grownup in charge since the beginning.

I would love a reporter to ask Trump in a press conference if he'll consider calling Obama for advice since Trump has lost all Trump year's market value and is now cutting into Obama's gains.

All bubbles pop. This one was no different. Just glad it happened on Trump's watch!

The market loss is fabulous, the most gorgeous market loss ever. Everybody says so. Mike, tell them.

#FAIL. He should be sued for this by anyone dumb enough to have taken his advice.

Too funny R479...that's pretty close to what I titled part 3.

Link to part 3.

It will be nasty final trading hour. Cheeto took glory when markets were high, he should take the blame now. But he never does.

I just checked and sure enough! Eric the FAILURE deleted that tweet @R580 from his Twitter feed. What a fucking coward!

wow, r580, Eric is as financially savvy as his father.

Looks like CNBC has their reporters and one of their anchors skyping from home. Spooky.

Now they’re talking about all the blowback they’ve been getting about Ackman’s hysterical rant.

Santelli’s in a studio somewhere. He’s normally always at the NYSE or whatever trading floor. Talking about the capitulation in bonds and currencies collapsing.

Chase is closing 20% of their branches. Guess what's going to happen in a few days...

Crude oil’s in a freefall, down another 18% just today.

its crashing... but maybe doing a little dead cat bounce again tomorrow. unbelievable.

Do you think Trump is sitting in front of his TV in a catatonic state watching this?

Yes, r590, with KFC and Fillet O'Fish grease dripping down his chins and vagina neck.

Link to part 3

Rumor has it DJT is curled up in the fetal position sucking his thumb in the Oval Office. Staff is trying to coax him out with a Happy Meal.

Bill Ackman says babies will DIE!!!!

MARY!!!!

I’d like to hold Bill and get access to his billions.

J.P. Morgan out with new GDP estimates:

Q1: -4%

Q2: -14% (not a typo)

Q3: +8%

Q4: +4%

Full year: -1.5% overall.

Unemployment rate goes to 6.25% midyear, 5.25% in Dec.

Let"s close this out.

Link to Part 3

Link to part 3

600

Link to Part 3