The Dow drops nearly 1000 on Coronavirus fears

Yaaaas!

I'm actually excited about this because it s a good day to buy.

This is not good news, and I'm probably an ass for pointing it out, but if the economy tanks, it's one more reason some Trump voters might consider voting against him.

i wouldn't be surprised if it back up by Friday given how volatile the market has been in recent years.

i'm not buying shit. it's gonna go down even more...

This is good news, and I'm probably an ass for pointing it out, but if the economy tanks, it's one more reason some Trump voters might consider voting against him.

There I fixed that for you R2

When will they announce the Olympics are postponed?

R3 I agree. 1000 points is no joke - it's definitely a buying opportunity.

It's ugly across the board. All the major indices are down nearly 4%.

Anyone have a recommendation for medical stocks/ETFs?

Obama's fault. And Hillary.

I stay put. One day, one week, one year does not drive my investing.

Dow Trivia: if we close at these levels it will be the third largest point poss and 11th by percentage.

Short sell Disney. They are at the epicenter of this shit shit with theme parks in Shanghai and Hong Kong.

Trump voters don't have money to buy stocks.

R9 I don't but good call on sector!

R11 exactly - but it is a good day to buy if you've got extra money laying around you planned to invest anyway..

I'm not buying until it drops 20%, which I believe it will before long.

Most trumptards don't own stock.

The only way they will feel anything is when the economy slows down. Then they will care.

I watch around 50 stocks all of them are down except one, Clorox. I guess they are figuring people are going to want bleach to disinfect everything.

The combination of climate change and Trump’s terrible economic policies are going to cause another Great Depression in this decade. If we can have a small recession now, to help get rid of Trump, it will help us avoid certain calamity.

Is the WHO actually focused on disease or economies? I can't tell anymore.

Time to buy...or almost time to buy. I'm adding to my portfolio with more Microsoft and also looking at Virgin Galactic. Does anyone have any buying tips they would like to share??? Remember, we need to take care of each other.

R22 agreed. see R9

‘This won’t hinder Trump. It’s because of a possible pandemic ...which has nothing to do with him.

R24 it also backs up his wishes that some companies come back to the USA and manufacture more stuff here.

[quote]I'm actually excited about this because it s a good day to buy.

What if all your money is tied up in stocks?

[quote]I watch around 50 stocks all of them are down except one, Clorox. I guess they are figuring people are going to want bleach to disinfect everything.

Bread and butter type stocks typically do well in a downturn. You may be able to get by on your old car and washing machine, but you'll a.ways need toothpaste, soap etc.

I wouldn't buy today. I might tomorrow. It won't regain a thousand in day. See where it goes.

Please let it crash - hard. The best shot of getting rid of Trump.

And possibly, maybe I’m more motivated by schadenfreude- as I got out of the market 2 years ago because I thought Trump would tank it and it kills me that I missed making so much money while others made a killing.

R29... even in the best case scenario Coronavirus will mute quarterly growth with the worst of it through the fall. Won't help him.

Okay. I'll share to kick it off.

R9, not really medical but my United Health Care has done well. And, I have the following: WFC, MRK, AAPL, FISV, DPZ, ZYNE, UNH, NFLX, BABA, DIS, LYFT, SPCE and MSFT. Out of those and if you are looking for a good growth stock, FISV has done very well for me. My DPZ, went up 25% last week with Q4 earnings release.

I also have a Fidelity managed account and about $125K in cd's.

[bold]It will come back up. The Fed and others will pump $$$ into the market creating a bubble; the crash comes after the election. [/bold]

I'm not expert on stocks; some of my acquaintances are. This is what they are telling me. Unless COVID-19 goes completely pandemic, the market can be propped up by manipulating specific indexes. What that means is beyond my technical knowledge.

Take it for FWIW. (BTW, coronaviruses do not go pandemic; quarantines, ect. are effective against them and most cases are mild.)

R32, your assertion that coronaviruses do not go pandemic and are effectively quarantined are the opposite of a great article just out in the Atlantic titled something like “You Are Likely To Get The Coronavirus”.

Good news. Rush Limbaugh said coronavirus is the common cold.

Keep reading feel-good articles. Most of you will just get a cold.

If Rushy said it, it must be true

But, most of those are hedge funds. They knew there was a drop, so they all sell (meaning a bigger drop) than buy the stocks back cheap They write off the stock loss on their taxes. This is done on computer in minutes, so they never really lost control of any of stocks because not enough time to do the paper work on it. It's all artificial.

P&G is down over 3%. My adviser has always told me it's remarkable when it hits 10% but hang tight. You should be playing the long game.

I'm sure Rush is back on the opioids.

Stock market needs a correction. It’s overheated.

It’s been awhile, we’re due for a correction. The market is cyclical.

I am not saying it's a crisis. It just isn't the big one.

FREAK OUT

Looks like most of the global markets are down 1% or more again today.

Down another 500 and dropping.

The Dow is now down more than 700 points

800 points.

Another rough day. But indexes have risen to record level. Might be partly correction. But I wonder when the virus lands to US what will happen to markets then. The main thing is US has never been so poorly prepared to pandemia thanks to WH according some article I read yesterday.

My concern is that will are going to go through this and have a correction on top of it....

Germany was already on the brink of a recession, our mfg numbers have been going down, the yield curve inverted last summer and now we have an interruption in our global supply chains. My guess is that this is going to take awhile to work through and the markets are going to head down for a while.

I love how if someone farts the Dow goes up and down.

People have been waiting for the shoe to drop - even a minor event like this has risked a stampede. A real economic shock will cause real damage - which even Trumps scam artists and acolytes won’t be able to mask by going away billions more in tax breaks and farm subsidies.

i’m all for a crash if it brings Drump along with it. a few deplorables i know are boasting how great the market has been with Drump around . and he knows it. without a great stock market , he’s essentially nothing. as he should be.

This is not the correction. That’s still coming.

Correction or not, it pisses me off that Trump made a statement on camera today that things re the Corona virus were doing better in the U.S., moving in the right direction etc, and we all know damn well it was a goddammed lie. He said it in an attempt to stabilize the markets if anything. Of course, a top spokesperson from the CDC came out a few hours later and said the exact opposite and said we all need to start preparing for the Pandemic.

It seems that CDC person’s comments sparked a market panic. Now the HHS and CDC has scrambled to call a news conference to talk about how awesome Trump’s response has been. You know he’s been watching the news on AF1 on the way home from India, picked up the phone and demanded they FIX THIS.

I can't wait until all "emperor's clothes" shit catches up to him and bites him in the ass. There's only so much you can lie away before it catches up to you and a poor response to a pandemic will be hard to hide...just ask the Chinese.

I might take some profit tomorrow. Depends if it inches up. No idea if this is a slow motion correction or entirely corona panic. But you don't lose money taking profit, even a smaller one than two days ago.

Warren Buffett is bullish on stocks but says the market can drop 50% — is he wrong?

Well, we almost 10% off the high that we made recently, r59. 50% sounds like a lot, but 25% wouldn't surprise me. We're overdue for a correction.

Okay - and tomorrow HHS and CDC heads will be axed.

R57, I understand what you are saying but he will never accept any blame. He will have place on someone else.

The Turd will be left in the corona lurch very soon. hahahahahahahahaha

U.S. stocks tumbled to an almost 12-week low and bond yields plunged to records on rising concern the coronavirus will upend global supply chains critical to economic growth.

The S&P 500’s four-day rout reached 7.6%, with losses accelerating Tuesday after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned Americans to prepare for a coronavirus outbreak at home. That follows a rapid increase in cases from Italy to Iran and Japan, with a growing list of companies warning that profits will suffer as economies around the world suffer. The S&P, Dow Jones Industrial Average and Nasdaq Composite indexes all set record highs this month.

The 10-year U.S. Treasury yield fell to a record low of 1.3055% as investors sought shelter from the virus’s impact on the outlook for growth. All 11 sectors in the S&P 500 fell with energy, material and financial shares leading the declines. Volatility spiked, sending the Cboe’s measure of equity gyrations surging past 30 for the first time since 2018.

“The market is pricing in a significant slowdown in GDP and a 10% impact on earnings,” said Zhiwei Ren, portfolio manager at Penn Mutual Asset Management. “And since no one knows how bad the infection will be, it is hard to make a bet on economy.”

Maybe it's a silver lining. As soft landing pause due to events, rather than pure exhaustion, that would allow for the resumption of growth once everybody stops sneezing.

Nearly 2000 points down in two days. And the pain will continue tomorrow.

If Bernie is elected, prepare for it to drop even more...

If Bernie is elected, prepare for it to drop even more...

If Trump is re-elected, prepare for the DOW to drop to 0 and the world economy to totally collapse.

Because he’s just that fucking stupid. Just like R66.

I did take some profit today... I think this is paradoxically good news for the medium and longer term... a corona virus slam on growth will create a mood where once it stabilities and we understand it, growth can resume. There will be pent up demand. This won't be a contraction where people give up.. it will be a contraction where people feel forced to stop. So I sold some financials today, as they won't do well in whatever you call the pain coming (recession, panic, contraction) but I kept my pharmaceuticals and other defensives. And bought a little more gold. I don't like gold, but you can always make some money off other people's panic. The key is to sell it, not hold it forever. Gold is a way to make money off crazy people.

My cemetery and funeral home stock is down... not what you'd expect with everybody planning to bring out their dead.

[quote]Gold is a way to make money off crazy people.

Ha! So true.

It is, R71! I have made some good money. You just always have to be ready to sell it... so many people have a hard time letting it go... me too. I sold some Netflix this morning... killed me to do it... but I had to remind myself you don't lose money making money so I turned about $5000 into cash and it can just sit there til the correction or Coronavirus... I can always get back in, I suspect it is vulnerable to downturn, I was taking a profit... and it was still hard!

Friends of mine always expected to inherit several million a piece from the old man once he finally kicked off... which he did... will as expected... and the stupid old fucker had everything in GOLD. When gold sucked. The millions came in at the hundreds of thousands instead. Gold is a con game, not a currency. But it's easy to win with if you don't trust it.

Color me a conspiracy theorist, but I think this is like the times when the market "crashed" over the Orange Anus' trade war proclamations, to rebound a few days later. Trust me, SOMEBODY is getting rich off these market drops and rebounds.

I would recommend burying your retirement cash in a coffee can in the backyard. Then again, when the Trump Depression hits, you cash will be worthless too. Wheel barrels full of Deutchmarks to buy a loaf of bread, anyone?

I know it's early, but it looks like today's rally will be short lived.

Anyone have any thoughts on the NYC real estate market? I'm trying to decide whether to rent or sell my tiny ass co-op. Looks like sale prices have dropped over the past year so I'm torn between getting rid of it or renting until the market improves.

Down, down, down in that burning ring of fire...

Down 500 at the open.

So much for Trump's calming speech.

CNBC: Stocks fell sharply once again on Thursday as investors worried the coronavirus may be spreading in the U.S. A slew of corporate and analyst warnings also dragged down the major averages.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average plummeted 650 points, or 2.3%. The S&P 500 slid 2.5% while the Nasdaq Composite dropped 2.9%. Those losses put the Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq in correction territory, down more than 10% from the record highs set earlier this month.

Wow, that was a short ride down to correction.

CNBC: Goldman Sachs just put out a shocking call, predicting zero earnings growth for the S&P 500 companies this year due to the coronavirus. The bank is advising its clients to buy domestically-oriented companies and avoid those with big foreign sales.

Well this may cause companies to rethink the supply chain in the future. About the only good thing is consumption should rebound quickly once things normalize.

yes, they absolutely should, esp for medicine!

haha! Drump’s speech last night had zero effect, nay , negative effect on the stock market!

Yeah, I think him being surprised the flu kills 10s of 100s wasn't reassuring, especially since we have our first case in the wild.

The pan-European Stoxx 600 has officially entered correction territory as well – it is off more than 10% from its record high notched on Feb. 19 last year.

It will go down even further if those 83 people they are monitoring in NY are positive for the virus.

Coronavirus is not a pandemic but a need of the hour specially in big cities

The Deplorables are good at compartmentalization. They’ll blame the “Slanty eyes” for the virus and not Trump, because they’ll live under a bridge and eat dog food before they’ll “let some high-flutin queer or colored tell em what to do!”

It's fast on its way of becoming a pandemic.

R86, To be fair it is truth after all. Chinese are exporting this disease to USA and whole world

[quote]The Deplorables are good at compartmentalization. They’ll blame the “Slanty eyes” for the virus and not Trump, because they’ll live under a bridge and eat dog food before they’ll “let some high-flutin queer or colored tell em what to do!”

Are you nuts? They'll blame the Democrats. They blame the Democrats for everything.

Everyone know it's Hillary's fault!

Dow down 850 points. This is getting ugly, folks.

R90, Noit ugly. Actually beautiful

Boomers retirements plans are ovah

there’s really no reason for it to go up again in awhile but you never know,, the market is illogical. imho, the DOW should really be at 20k by election day. or maybe sooner.

[quote]Boomers retirements plans are ovah

Be careful what you wish for. If they're broke, you're going to be paying for them when they're too old or sick to work.

went to my local home depot, I bought hand sanitizers there in the past, it was all sold out. will have to go to other stores.

“ Be careful what you wish for. If they're broke, you're going to be paying for them when they're too old or sick to work.”

How is that going to happen? They’ll be left out in the cold to fend for themselves. That’s how this country operates.

Not if they’re dead from Wuflu R93.

R94 if you live near a Bath and Body works...they have these little "bac pacs" that I use. One scent is specifically for men and there's one other that is unisex.

Economically, we’re sort of fucked.

Fed Chairman Powell wanted to raise interest rates last year to normalize the markets. Had he done so we’d be getting a truer (likely milder) read of the coronavirus correction now.

TRump threaten to replace him. So rather than raising rates twice, Powell caved and lowered them. Markets artificially soared.

The outbreak’s quickly wiped out that extra “froth” and the correction’s yet to occur. Worse, Powell has virtually no remaining rate flexibility (because he didn’t raise them when he could have), and he’ll have even less if he succumbs to TRump’s inevitable demand that he cut rates yet again.

He’s now “driving” a car with worn brakes.

Everyone's freaking out about supply chain disruption - and as much as you would like to blame Trump for all of this - he didn't release this virus in Wuhan.

In the long run this may be a good thing - we had become so dependent on China for everything. We need to start manufacturing our own stuff again.

I hope the economy tanks big time and people riot in the streets like Venezuela, it's time for a correction to US society.

Ha @r99’s naïveté.

You really think that manufacturing can be ported out of 3rd world countries and back Into our own?

Absurd. It’ll never happen. To use you a cliche, the globalism genie has been out of the bottle for quite some time now. You can’t re-cork that shit. Well, theoretically you could but the will to do so will never, ever manifest.

The bright side of all of this? Trump is scared shitless. Maybe it'll bring on a coronary.

[quote]We need to start manufacturing our own stuff again.

You can dream la, auntie, but me no sure you will succeed la.

This won't spell the end of Trump. As during war, people will not want to bring in an all new administration in the midst of it, should this get bad, even if Trump does fuck up the emergency rollout.

Senator Josh Hawley (R., Mo.) on Wednesday revealed legislation intended to reduce U.S. reliance on China for the manufacture of certain prescription drugs and other medical supplies.

Manufacturing has been moving out of China for some time now, going to places like Vietnam. Critical manufacturing, like medication, however, should remain in the country.

Americans need to buy stuff made in the USA and not from China, that's the way to bring back jobs and prosperity to the American people.

r105 well since it was tabled by a Republican you can rest assured it will be demonized as evil by everyone who is not a Republican even though it's a good idea.

R107, I don't think you know what "tabled" means.

Sure R104

How did that recession in 2007 work for Republicans? The fuck they won’t want a new administration.

Why hasn't Pence solved this yet??

Probably wise to short some restaurant stocks. If this comes up big here, people will stop going to the Olive Garden and Appleby's for a while.

[quote]You can’t re-cork that shit.

Perhaps re-corked shit is available on Etsy?

CNBC is so desperate to prop things up: "Everything's going to be fine! This is nothing!"

To a certain extent that's true, r114. Everything is cyclical.

[quote] Why hasn't Pence solved this yet??

Don't worry pumpkin face, he and mother are in deep prayer over the situation.

Oh Trumptards are out in force defending the Turd today. Deplorable pathetic fuckwits.

[quote]Senator Josh Hawley (R., Mo.) on Wednesday revealed legislation intended to reduce U.S. reliance on China for the manufacture of certain prescription drugs and other medical supplies.

Isn't it kinda socialism in which the government legislates and enforces economic policies? Ironic, isn't it? When the GOPtards do it, it will be a national security issue. But if the Democrats do it, the fucktwad GOPs will cry SOCIALISM!!!! Fuck you, fat old GOP cunts.

R115 - Thanks to a measured and intelligent response from President Obama’s administration.

Compare and contrast . . .

Yes, r119, but corporations will continue to do business around the world in spite of anything Trump does. And if there are shortages of necessary items now, once available people will resupply. It's cyclical.

Dow is down only about 300 points now. Has Trump congratulated himself yet?

Thank you the coronavirus for bringing down the world economy, and probably Trump's re-election in the process.

I agree R99. It is completely insane that we get 80% of our antibiotics from overseas and China. A manufacturing correction is long overdue.

It will if manufacturing and travel are seriously curtailed for an extended length of time R101.

[quote]It is completely insane that we get 80% of our antibiotics from overseas and China. A manufacturing correction is long overdue.

But but but 80% of active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) is still being produced in China and India. Do you think sick and dying people can wait for this wishful manufacturing correction to happen?

So do nothing then, r125???

Americans will stop doing a lot of things out of fear of this, but stop going to Olive Garden and Applebees is at the bottom of that list.

Almost 500 points now. BOO HOO HOO!

I am so glad I moved my stocks out of the growth stage it was in during that shit with Iran. It's going to be a bumpy ride folks. If the idiot gets another four years it will be horrific. Repugs are ONLY concerned about their base and not the rest of us. Look at what 8 years of Bush did, Obama got us out of it and now this asshole clown is throwing us back in it.

Dow down nearly 800. I bet it drops below 1000 again and we are officially in correction territory. We already are, actually.

If we close down 10% from the high then I believe this marks the quickest turn into a correction that we've ever experienced.

Trump will do martial law. That’s Bill Barr’s dream, get everyone in line.

There aren’t enough troops or National Guard to start martial law for 330 million people or a territory as large as the US.

Trump is a pandemic.

If you're in a large city and can work from home, I'd start.

To me this is good news, anything that hurts Trump and the rich is good news, but it's not the way I wanted it. It will be impossible to show that Trump caused this. Maybe from yesterday on with his ridiculous speech and appointing science denier and HIV spreader Pence to take charge but Trump will still claim it's a virus and not his handling of the economy and of course his moronic hate filled supporters will believe their cult leader. I wanted the stock market to fall and the economy to drop worse, way worse than it did in 2008. Sure some of us will have to do a little sacrificing but you know it was the horrible economy that led even people in red states to vote for the first black president, not just a Democrat but a black one. You know the bigots had to be desperate to not only vote for Obama but give us a D Congress and Senate.

They need to be that desperate again and they won't be unless a huge fail to the economy can be placed directly on Trump's head and McConnell head and the heads of every fucking Republican holding office. I wish so much for that to happen. It's the only way we will get rid of all of them and then hopefully if we get Liberal enough Democrats, with guts, something Obama never had and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi never had that this country will change drastically for the better and in 2022 and 2024 people, red and blue, will be able to say they're doing so much better than in 2020.

I guess this virus is better than nothing but it's not the kind of thing that will make everyone turn on Trump the way they did on W, besides, this is a dangerous thing that can get out of control and if most of us die it won't matter much who's in charge. Even the best leaders might not be able to contain it, let alone the leaders we have.

OK, so it dropped from -300 to -800 because of Nancy Pelosi, but I ordered it very strongly to stop, and now it's down only 750, not that I expect anyone to say "Thank you Mr. President," they never do.

I will be so happy if this virus can get Trump out of office! I hope the stock market goes down even more! tank!!!

Dubya had massive layoffs, bankruptcies and excessive fuel prices in addition to a declining stock market. It's going to take more than just a drop in the markets to change the mind's of the plebs when it comes to Trump.

R139 the layoffs and bankruptcies are already happening. The fuel will come. The only facade holding it up is the market.

R140, the situation today is nowhere near what was happening under Dubya. Companies literally folded overnight. Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual...all gone in the blink of an eye. Oil was over $100 a barrel for years. Unemployment wasn't at record lows at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving Trump credit for the economy, but what is happening today is not comparable and won't be unless people start getting foreclosed on again. The situation under Bush was dire.

1,150 point loss at close.

Which brings us back to the level of January 2018. Two years of growth erased in 5 days. And we have seen NOTHING.

Prediction for tomorrow, funds might start to liquidate. So I heard. Does it make sense?

The chart watchers I've been talking to say we're in oversold territory but not to buy the first rally.

Yes, for a number of reasons, R144. Rebalancing and taking a larger cash position come to mind.

More people dies from the flu and the stock market doesn't give a shit. Then there *might* be an outbreak... everyone's running for the hills. Irrational behavior dialed up to the max.

I say that no one is going to vote for another crabby old white man if they already have one. .

Tee hee i just rebalanced my portfolio last week i had too much in stock. I’m taking a solid hit but it could have been a bloodbath. Cashed out a bunch of options two weeks ago. Thank you baby jesus.

Deaths from the normal flu haven't screwed up global supply chains and prompted American-based companies to slash earnings projections, R147.

R150 Then they should have done that a month ago when the situation in China, the biggest link in the global supply chains, seemed quite dire. The stock market actually continued to go up during this period. Now the situation in China, outside of Wuhan/Hubei, has stabilized and people are already going back to work. Now the stock market is worried about supply chains and earnings? It's when the virus scare hits SK and Japan that the whole narrative started to change into this fear mongering we are seeing in the US.

No one believes things have stabilized in China.

Problem is Commie China is a lying sack of shit that refused to be honest about the spread of the virus for a month.

R152 Then prepare for apocalypse.

R153 How ironic for gay people to demonize others for a virus...

No on is demonizing them because of a virus. The poster was demonizing them for having a corrupt, lying authoritarian government.

R156 Keep telling yourself that.

R156 - jump to conclusions much? I was saying the Chinese government is a lying sack of shit. I am not referring to their people - which by the way they also treat like complete utter shit.

Typo - That was meant for R157 NOT r156

[quote]Now the situation in China, outside of Wuhan/Hubei, has stabilized and people are already going back to work.

But is this true?

Prepare for another rout tomorrow. This isn’t just Wuflu.

Over 3000 points in 3 days. Worst drop in history.

it is not the virus that is causing this but the fear of the unknown of the virus.

It's not just the supply chain in China, but the prospect of it hitting here. The first case independent of China has been diagnosed in California. So while it's on the wane in China, it's just beginning here and everywhere else.

We don't know if it's "on the wane" in China just yet. do you really trust China for your information?

The heros in China that spoke out on twitter revealing what was really going on - have all been silenced, disappeared or are now dead.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Yeah, r165, I do believe it is on the wane. The WHO is now involved and China took aggressive isolation measures, so it would only stand to reason that it would be waning.

Just get individually wrapped Wet Ones. Stick em in your pockets & wallet

I think part of it is fear of trump handling it competently in the US

Oh, no, not pomeranians!

This isn't a correction. This is panic. A correction has a rationale underlying it. Investors realize the market is distorted. While it is, I don't call this a correction. Investors are just losing their shit.

It's gonna go down even more...just you wait. wait for the results of those 83 people in NY.

Another 1200 point drop.

83 in NY. HA! That's nothing.

I travel weekly around the country for work. Not an option to stay home. I’m a little nervous. Any suggestions on how to keep a 50 year old man’s immune system strong? Supplements?

R175 bath in bleach every day.

R175 read this link not joking

When I come home I take my shoes off. I wash my hands, lower arms and face and hair with rubbing alcohol, 70%, before I touch anything else. I keep it and a roll of paper towels by the door. Then I wipe the inside of my doorknob and my locks. I then wash my hands with antibacterial soap and water as hot as I can stand it. I never sit on my furniture or lie down on my bed with my street clothes. I get undressed right away. Whatever I bring home I clean with alcohol if it's something I can clean. I clean everything I put in my fridge or cabinets before I put them away. I pay special attention to the tops of cans, like tuna and soda. I wash whatever produce is washable with soap and then rinse it very, very well with water. Of course some things I can't do that too, like berries but I do rinse them under water for a very long time,

I have always, in my adult life anyway, done this, not just since this virus thing. I used to think I was obsessed but now I'm glad I got into the habit. Oh and if I have company I place sheets on my sofa and chairs that I remove for the wash as soon as the people leave. I can't believe there are people who not only lie in or on their bed with street clothes but with street shoes. I would scream bloody murder at someone who put shoes on my sofa, chairs or bed. I do wash my floors when company leaves too. It's a lot of bother but most people just disgust me. I honestly would rather just be alone. I'm not someone who gets board with my own company. If I want to be around other people I go out instead of inviting them in. I'll happily pay to take someone to lunch or dinner rather than cook for them or accept their invitation to take me but I don't like eating in anyone's home. I know restaurants are filthy for the most part but at least legally they have some rules.

Short sell Disney.

r175 Vitamin D3 and cod liver oil for supplements. I'm your age, that's what I take.

It’s devastating. I’ve lost over $80k in just a few days. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Obviously you've never worked in a restaurant, R178. Given your set of phobias, you'd recoil in horror at the mere thought of eating in restaurants if you'd ever seen what kinds of things go on routinely.

It's a paper loss as long as you don't sell, r171.

R126 - you are the one who suggests the correction, so what's your plan? I'm all ears. Solution without implementation is nothing too. You can keep gabbing that the manufacturing must be corrected, but HOW????

Does anyone really have pity for people who's biggest problem is losing money in the stock market? The world's tiniest violin is playing for them.

Good grief, it's not that bad.

I survived Coronavirus and so did many others. People are acting like it's the plague.

Remember Ebola?

R184, we manufactured drugs and API in the United States up until recently. It's not that difficult to bring it back over the same amount of time that it took to get rid of it. He facilities still exist.

Also, I'm not the only poster who is suggesting this.

Considering ordinary people have money in the market in the form of 401ks and retirement plans, , r185, yes, I do have sympathy.

R183... yup. I took some profit yesterday on JP Morgan and Netflix. Now sit tight... and on about $50k in cash for when things get really cheap.

PBS newshour tonight officially called it a market correction.

The great Bush recession destroyed my portfolio.

r186 you have already had it? if so what age are you?

R178 is Sheldon Cooper.

Also, you have OCD.

R186 Wow. Would you like to tell more?

We all need to get behind Medicare for ALL. CoronaVirus means that more people will need to be treated in the hospital, this season. Also, the hospital needs to follow infectious disease protocols (more cleaning) and universal precautions.

Perhaps, that CEO who has a degree in business/marketing and his personal assistants should not get the money.

R181 to me whether it’s bad or not depends if you need it soon or not. I knew that I needed some money for something coming up soon so I sold that enough for that two weeks ago as I was worried about a big selloff and left the rest.

[quote]The great Bush recession destroyed my portfolio.

Did you sell and not get back into stocks? The stock market recovered and soared under Obama.

I moved my 401(k) to a more conservative approach months ago to protect my millions.

As did I r197, to protect my paltry thousands.

R197 and R198... what's your mix now?

For balance: DL denizens (those over 50 y.o.) ought to have less than fifty percent of their wealth in equities.

Futures predict a 600 point drop at opening. Shanghai dropped 3.2%.

r198, If you are still working you should continue to buy more stock each pay period. You will buy low and will be happy when the market rebounds down the road.

[quote]happy when the market rebounds down the road

Unfortunately for me, "down the road" will be more like "in the dumpster in the alley behind Shady Pines."

Down 600 at the open.

Curious to know how you define wealth, R200. What components? Cash, stocks, real estate, etc or are you just speaking to how investments are diversified?

I'm starting hear that we could drop as much as 2500 today as market players don't want to go into the weekend holding positions.

Down 900 already.

Not far away from yet another -1000 pts

It's so weird how easily the drops seem to come. Down over 1000.

Trump tried to blame it on the democratic debate.

I bet Trump is shitting his pants. I would not want to be Mulvaney today.

1000 point drop. Wow.

Yes, Mulvany's statement today to ignore news on the virus and the market will go up was very reassuring.

Trump should just suck it up and bring back the pandemic team that he let go. I'd even accept his crazy looking Doctor over Pence.

[quote]Yes, Mulvany's statement today to ignore news on the virus and the market will go up was very reassuring.

LOL - did he really? You know he left the Oval today trying not to hang is head after he got that order. Good... I hope he hates his job.

It’s not just Trump shitting the bed, it’s investors, and let’s face it, this is not just coronavirus fears. It’s the fact that this economy has been propped up on fake money, credit, air, and outright lies and bullshit. The people who’ve been propping it up are getting the fuck out because they know it’s fake. Chickens are home to roost.

It will bounce back.

yes but clorox stocks are up!

I just keep buying ETFs with each market drop, so I can get in a little bit more as it keeps going lower.

You dopes really think I lose money if the market falls?

Wow, we shaved off about 700 points from today's lows. Now down only 300.

This is a great time to buy as it's just temporary. No one should sell though.

it's going down even more...

[quote] R115: We recovered from 2008 by 2012

I think it took 6 years for the Dow, 2007-2013.

And 15 years for the NASDAQ after the dot com burst.

some not bad perspective.

[quote] R200: For balance: DL denizens (those over 50 y.o.) ought to have less than fifty percent of their wealth in equities.

Some are changing their recommendation about this. With people living into their 90s, and a 30-year retirement, we need to stretch our savings longer than in the past.

Thanks R31! I invested in FISV, I've been looking for something like them for a while. I bought into PAYC a few years ago and it has done really well.

Honestly we'll be back up before you know it. The same situation that brought on 2008 is not at play here.

Seriously you all sound like 70 year old Boomer Deplorables in this thread.

R224 I was just thinking about that. If you are diversified enough, I don't see why one would stop wanting to play the market until they are 70 or so.

Most Americans don't even start saving for retirement until 50.

Thank you the coronavirus for shutting up the Turd about the stock market for some time. Such a shit stain on his despicable presidency: the biggest drop of the Dow in one day on February 27, 2020. hahahahahahahaha .

And now approaching another 1000-point plunge.

We are just at the beginning of the Corona correction and the market will get worse, since the virus conditions will probably get worse. I called it the day after the first major fall. I wrote that if the market fell considerably a second day, it’s a correction and will continue to fall. If it rebounded, then it is going to bounce around. And I was right.

The Dow today is now about where it was on Jan 1, 2018.

So, my prediction now:

We are still not at the bottom. I would still sell, if you are in the market. We could fall another 20%, perhaps. Hold your powder for now, on more buying!

That’s my prediction.

R228 I hope you are right! When Netflix goes below 300, I will be there!!!

No one knows whether this is a long term decline in the market or just a short term decline and if they claim they do, then they are just talking out their asses.

However lets look at what is causing the down turn, that would be virus fears and decline in commercial activity associated with those fears. As long as there are virus concerns and new cases happening those concerns will remain. That will mean reduced commercial activity which will result in lower profits and thus lower stock prices.

If the current believed fatality rate from the virus at 2% is real, that would mean an about 2% decline in the population, that would mean 2% less consumption.

I wouldn't consider buying into the market while the number of people with the virus is increasing. If it starts decreasing that would be the time to buy.

It's always the uncertainty that really drives a downward spiral. Everyone is trying to account for the worst case scenario, and there's no limit to people's pessimism. Either an actual outbreak occurs or something else has to grab people's attention before the market can stabilize.

R230 that scenario is only if everyone in the world caught the virus. Social isolation measures will be enacted long before it would be able to hit everyone.

Down 900 more points as of now.

Well at least Trump has earned some legit bragging rights with this...

Largest 1 day point drop and quickest correction since the depression.

Now he can honestly say no other president has done what he has done with the stock market.

R230 your calculation is way off as not everyone on the planet will be infected. My guess is at the most 100k will die from this virus eventually.

Dems should be messaging about Trump fucking up the economy relentlessly!

Next week they can add in the inept preparation for Coronavirus. Esp as # of infected will start jumping.

Nobody is gonna fly, travel, stay in hotels, not going to concerts, stadiums...they will stay closer to home and probably boost local economy.

"Next week they can add in the inept preparation for Coronavirus. Esp as # of infected will start jumping."

What funny is with the Coronavirus being in the news for nearly TWO months - not one democratic candidate mentioned it during the debates. They were too busy yelling and attacking each other to give it a thought..

From the group of clowns on the debate stage - doesn't sound any of them would be all that great in handling it either...

And from what evidence did you pull this 100k figure from R235? Your ass? Stfu.

R237 Yeah, everyday consumables will see good business if retailers can manage to stay open (should an actual outbreak occurs). People seem to be hoarding toilet paper along with foodstuff in the places now under virus alert outside of China.

[quote]My guess is at the most 100k will die from this virus eventually.

I wouldn't be surprised if the real figure is already up there in Cheating China.

R241 Only idiots like you wish more people are dead!

I’m no expert but with Europe, India, China probably going into recession or minimal growth it doesn’t bode well for the US

The market rout has investors rushing to pull money out of the world's biggest stock fund.

The SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust saw nearly $13 billion in outflows over the three days ending Wednesday and is on track to post its biggest weekly loss since February 2018, according to Bloomberg data. The $279 billion fund tracks the S&P 500, the American equity benchmark.

Such outflows, especially during a time with gigantic increases in volatility, are "not surprising to see," Matthew Bartolini, the head of SPDR Americas Research at State Street Global Advisors told Markets Insider in an interview.

"The outflows we're seeing reflect that sentiment from a widely diverse client base that expresses their views by using the most liquid ETF out in the marketplace," Bartolini said.

I've had money collecting dust to be invested just waiting for the market to cool.

Fuck waiting. The time is now.

Thanks China for your disgusting hygiene standards.

I knew on Saturday when I read an article on the bogleheads forum that the market was going to tank in a big way for quite awhile. I cut and pasted the article on one of these threads. It talked about the supply chain interruption due to factories being shut down in China. I dumped some stock on Tuesday and Wednesday that I wanted to dump anyway. I will wait for things to settle down a bit then move the money into a total stock market ETF. I don't like holding individual stocks unless it's play money.

R245 I suppose it must be revenge for the HIV and N1H1 virus from the less than hygienic west. Since this virus has been identified for more than a month, if the US didn't bother to test for it in people coming in for all that time, it's really asking for it.

This is why I started canning years ago. I just wish I had canned food, in addition to my piss and shit.

Well, at least somebody made some big money this week from shorting the market or buying short ETFs. Have a beer on them!

Well things sure got exciting at the end there. A 500 point rally in just a few minutes.

R250 Profit taking from the market shorts.

Whatever Chinaman. Everyone knows Chinese people are gross when it comes to hygiene. We all live and have traveled around them.

They are everywhere!!!

Because all the 1% Democrats were more afraid of Bernie than they are of Trump or the virus. You don't think in their hearts of hearts they were thrilled to have so much more money from the Trump Tax Cuts and I probably include Bernie in this because while he is not as rich as some of the others I'm sure he benefited too. The only difference is I believe Bernie and probably Warren would be happy to give up the extra money they got to make those tax cuts go away and give that money to the 99%.

R253 Of course they are not afraid of the virus. They can hide out in their mansions while the virus does the job of thinning the herd. Historically, that's what virus outbreaks do anyway.

My less than 50% suggestion was based on “wealth” (net worth).

If you’re over fifty years old, your total stock holdings should be no greater than the value of your cash equivalent holdings plus the equity in any non-cash investments you might have (such as a rental unit).

One third in cash/bonds; one third in stocks and one third in real estate, for example, would be a (difficult to achieve, but) worthwhile goal.

[quote] R245: I've had money collecting dust to be invested just waiting for the market to cool...Fuck waiting. The time is now.

Read R143. The Dow is only down 14% as of today. We’ve got to go to 2016 levels, or lower, before they settle down. That’s a Dow of 17888; or down another 34%. Bear markets of 30% are not historically all that rare, so this would be a lot, but we’ll see. All depending, of course, on the virus news. You might want to reconsider.

I recall it tool years for the Dot com bear market to end. At least 3, maybe 4. The crash took two years. We’re in the first week of this downturn with a moron making policy. So, I’m going to wait to hear more news.

It was the strangest thing and a complete coincidence that during the Bush crash, my holdings returned to their pre-crash high the same week that the S&P500 did.

This time, I started selling about half of my equity investments all through 2018 and 2019. I missed the party! I think the market was up 25% from 2019 to Jan 31, 2020; so that Is disappointing; but it worked out, now. My average selling price is about 3% above where it is today.

For 15 years, I beat the S&P500; but after the crash, I have lagged. In part, it’s because I’ve invested more conservatively in my dotage, but after measuring my returns against that benchmark, it’s a hard habit to break. It triggers the competitive streak in me. If I can get back in on the upswing, I’ll be thrilled.

Last Monday I was a millionaire. Next Friday I'll be collecting plastic bottles and offering blowjobs.

During the dot-com crash, I knew someone who sold 1000 shares of his company for $28,000. The next week, he sold 100,000 shares for another $28,000 - in just one week! Imagine, he had been worth almost $3 million! Now he sells real estate, lol. Not that I think this is happening now, there’s no evidence to support that. I’m just reminded of it by R259.

A lot of armchair investors talking about that "guy they knew" who lost it all. Meanwhile, people are investing in stocks all over the world everyday and no these numbers don't mean they are all pulling out or losing it all.

This is a scare based on panic not touching the American economy. I'd argue it hasn't even affected the Chinese economy.

The stocks will be up by the end of next week. I've made my buys.

R261, my acquaintance was high enough up in his company that his sales were publicly available on the web. That’s how I know.

I appreciate your point, that for every seller, there is a buyer. Still, next week I expect a short lived dead cat bounce, then resumption of the downward spiral.

R262 you'd be better off minding the growth of your finances rather than snooping on those of others.

As for real estate, its easy big money if you know how to schmooze and hustle. Beats being a clockwatching desk jockey anyday.

3rd case in OR. person works in a school...CDC can't even make test kits. How are they gonna test hundreds? Looks like a shit show...prepare for a shitty monday.

R263, insider sales are an important part of “ minding the growth of my own finances”. I’d wish you stop judging.

You sound like a slimy, soulless snake oil salesman who's all about the hustle, R263. I've seen way too many real estate con men.

One becomes bored with your tiresome talk of filthy lucre.

Sorry not sorry, but people who are buying now are flat out stupid. You have ZERO IDEA how or where this virus is headed and how it will affect the market. There will be another huge drop Monday. The market will not recover next week. The virus is going to burn like fire through India (another country we heavily rely on for labor) and then through Mexico and South America, and THEN through the US. We have zero control over this situation. Period. There will not be a vaccine on the market for months or years. This is an unprecedented situation and there is going to be financial pain for a long time. You can not recover if no one is producing or working. Google just canceled a massive event in Las Vegas, THE major games (multi billion dollar industry 10 times bigger than Hollywood) convention is about to collapse as everyone pulls out in San Francisco, and that’s just the announcements in the past afternoon. Google and Amazon have stopped non essential travel completely. Industries are running scared.

The Trump administration has taken away every single protection the market had over the last year in order to keep it falsely propped up.

This has been a LONG time coming, and you deserve to lose your money if you think it’s going to be so easily turned around.

I've already paid for a gay cruise. It's in July. I wonder if I'll be able to go.

The only thing I bought this week was bonds.

R270 why not gold?

r269, get your money back.

R268 = Cassandra.

R273 - Just remember: Cassandra was an UNHEEDED prophetess.

Meh. The stock market needed a correction.

R268 Okay, dear. Just enjoy stuffing your 500 dollars in savings in your pillowcase.

Will the market drop lower, possibly. Will the market recover, absolutely.

And we wonder why Trump won and why Sanders will likely hand him his second term.

R268 is not Cassandra, but I agree anyway.

R271. I have gold so didn’t feel the need to buy more. But I believe gold will go up. The tricky thing is watching it as it can go down fast too. With gold you gotta keep and eye and commit to getting out when you’ve made some money. At least in my experience.

Gold was good in 1945 Germany and similar cases when currency became worthless, that’s not the case today.

Buckle up, Monday is going to be a bloodbath.

And then Tuesday will come, and Wednesday, and Thursday

then April

then May

then June

then the Democrats will fuck up again

then Trump will take his second term

then come back in a year

This thread reeks of people who actually have little, and most likely no game in the stock market. Seems they are finally have a brief moment to say all the financially savvy out there were just wasting their time and money.

Just the Trump balloon deflating as reality sets back in. The virus scare just provides the fear factor to sober everyone up.

I agree completely, R281.

There are a lot of assholes on this board hoping a) the stock market crashes and/or (b) the Corona Virus kills millions of people, as they think either or both of these events will be Trump's demise. They know damn good and well Democrats have shitty candidates running, ,and they know Trump will trounce any of them.

They've been brainwashed by MSNBC and CNN and all of their panels of "experts," who have been predicting the imminent destruction of Donald Trump since January of 2017.

I agree r283. I think it’s sick that many posters want the market to crash or want people to get sick because maybe it could help the election.

Funny not only are the democratic candidates horrible but none have mentioned the Coronavirus during the debates.

Lots of Trump bots on this thread. Interesting that I’ve blocked most of them. Your little Fuhrer will not win the election.

Oh, and I do hope you Republicans all get Coronavirus and die horrible deaths. A perfect way to get rid of your evil from the planet.

Bbyyyeeeeeeee

R283 Well, the Trump rally is his one claim to have done something right, so it's up to him to "rally" the market before the election. If this new virus proves to be seasonal as some are predicting, its virulence will wane as the summer weather sets in which will limit the damage. But really, Trump should fund the CDC properly so it's ready to deal with this type of crisis.

R285 sums up the intellectually and stock-deficient of this thread.

Here's what I've learned since 2016:

There are a lot of Deplorable Dems in America too.

But the sickest, most despicable creatures of all are gay Trump supporters like R284. Eat shit and croak, fucktwad!

R288:

trump 2020, bitch.

R288

Dem here

Sorry not sorry but not even your Wet Dream BootyJuice will prevent the Dems' inevitable humiliation in November.

You might as well start accepting that. I have.

R288 = broke ass Bernie Bro Bolshevik brown shirt, hoping by electing Bernie, he will erase all the stupid mistakes and idiotic decisions he's made and continues to make.

The CDC can't even make a basic test kit and we're supposed to trust the gov to manage health care if Bernie gets elected?

R291

So fucken true

Bernie Bros fucked us over in 2016

Same idiots still drinkin the Kool Aid showing us history repeats itself

If you can't learn from your mistakes you really deserve nothing but to STFU

The CDC is spewing garbage that will increase the spread of infection. They are saying healthy people don't need to wear masks, people have the virus without having symptoms.

The CDC is trying to prevent falsehoods and mass hysteria from taking over otherwise stupid people.

Besides the masks people wear don't even prevent the infection most of the time.

This thread is a lot stupid people talking about things that show how stupid they are.

Orange alert

I don’t know how anyone can say that the posters here don’t have skin in the game, like R281. He’s drawn a conclusion without evidence. That’s the hallmark of a truly stupid person.

As for the accusation that others are hoping the market crashes or the virus kills millions, that’s not everybody. Not the majority, in fact. Besides, writing something like that here is just blowing off steam. It’s hyperbole and has no effect one anything, which encourages people to express extreme things that they wouldn’t make happen, if they had the power.

R297 Yes because no one on Datalounge ever makes a statement that is unsupported by evidence.

Did you learn that in your self-defense for your traffic ticket. LOLz.

Please Judge Judy, have a seat.

Also a Coronavirus escalation will further bolster Trump's arguments that the US is not safe when it comes to foreigners. This will rile up even further Trumptards.

Hell he'll probably make build a Yellow Wall a foundation for his campaign.

He'll note that most confirmed US cases seem to be in the West Coast where all the liberals like those in SF where I live have turned their states and cities into shit literally.

Then he'll blame Obamacare somehow for the CDC's mismanagement of any epidemic.

Then he'll blame the Mexican rapists again.

This is not rocket science folks. Dems really need to pull their heads out of their asses.

if masks don't work then why the fuck do the medical staff wear them?!

R268, that's not how it really works. The market will always react as if it's the worst case scenario until it hits oversold territory.

So what you are seeing isn't likely to continue months. What we are looking at is what's known as a "shock".

The market will rally in a couple weeks if not sooner.

Medical staff wear certain masks that have specific protections.

A good number of the public wear masks that aren't going to protect them from what they think they are protecting themselves from.

Jesus are people this fucking stupid.

Aren't there enough threads to discuss things like masks? This is about the financial markets.

People with stake in the markets can only blabber on and on about CARONAVIRUS and TRUMPTARDS.

Any retirement discussion always devolves into the have nots whining over their poor financial decisions and those who were wiser.

I hear a rumor that the central banks, not just the US central bank, will unleash a monetary stimulus Sunday evening.

The markets will like that, but it is only of temporary help. There will be lost business that cannot be made up.

From Barrons:
 [bold] Didn’t Sell Before the Big Plunge? Here’s the Good News. [/bold]

By Randall W. Forsyth, Feb. 28, 2020 8:56 pm ET

Part 1:

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away, as Paul McCartney famously wrote. And it seems only yesterday that stock market investors were sitting on top of the world, with the major averages at historic highs.

It was just the Wednesday before last, Feb. 19, when the market set a record. Since then, the major averages have suffered a swift, sharp shock of nearly 15%. In the week just past, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell nearly 4,000 points, or 13.6%, to 25,409, a far sight from the 30,000 the bulls had eagerly eyed. The S&P 500 index lost 11.49%, ending 12.76% below its recent peak. The technology-led Nasdaq Composite slumped 10.54%; it is now 12.73% under its recent high.

For investors considering their own portfolios, the dollar losses probably hit home more than percentages. According to Wilshire Associates, U.S. stockholders were down $2.8 trillion in the latest week and $4.6 trillion from the Feb. 19 high. Viewed another way, however, their gains since the Christmas Eve 2018 low have been pared to $6.3 trillion from $10.9 trillion at the peak, which isn’t so bad. The losses relate to the impact, or fear effects, of the spreading coronavirus. The stock market’s equanimity had been hardly disturbed by the virus, whose disease is now called Covid-19, until last week, when the virus was seen to have spread past its origins in China to South Korea and then Italy. Especially alarming: a report that an American had contracted the virus without having been in contact with any apparent carrier from the affected areas. Adding to the markets’ worries was the less-than-impressive response from the Trump administration, including its claims that the virus had been contained, echoing similar government assertions that the subprime mortgage had been contained months before the financial crisis o At the same time, the markets have to deal with politics—with a self-described democratic socialist, Sen. Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, as the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination. “Unfortunately, this public health crisis intersects with a step-up in U.S. political risk as the Democratic primaries lean toward a candidate favoring numerous disruptive tax and regulatory policies,” states The J.P. Morgan View, a research publication of the bank. That note came ahead of Saturday’s South Carolina primary, in which former Vice President Joe Biden is favored, and Super Tuesday, March 3, when a third of the delegates to the Democratic national convention will be up for grabs.

As usual, there is one all-purpose solution for this crisis: easier monetary policy from the Federal Reserve and other central banks around the globe. Or so the markets expect, based on the history of similar episodes. The Fed released an unusual statement on Friday afternoon to let the markets know that it isn’t oblivious to Covid-19’s effects on the economy and the markets: “The fundamentals of the U.S. economy remain strong. However, the coronavirus poses evolving risks to economic activity. The Federal Reserve is closely monitoring developments and their implications for the economic outlook. We will use our tools and act as appropriate to support the economy.” That noncommittal statement did nothing to dissuade the markets from expecting the Fed to lower its federal-funds policy rate range, currently 1.50% to 1.75%. That’s far above where most Treasury securities trade (see below), which implies that the bond market already has discounted rate reductions. As of Friday, the fed-funds futures market was pricing in cuts totaling at least 75 basis points (0.75 of a percentage point).

Continued...

Part 2

That raises two questions: Should the Fed respond to the coronavirus crisis, which in the U.S. has mainly affected the financial markets? And is this the most appropriate policy response? On the latter score, the idea that a cut of 25 or 50 basis points in the overnight money rate would cure the virus crisis strains credulity. The disruption of global supply chains is vastly different from a hit to aggregate demand, which is what monetary easing is supposed to address.

Better if the major industrialized nations were to address the impact of Covid-19 with significant fiscal measures, writes David Goldman, former head of credit research at Bank of America, in the Asia Times. Beijing has responded to the virus and the trade war with strong fiscal measures, which is why the Chinese stock market has suffered less than Wall Street and other bourses, he contends.

“Monetary policy won’t work, because the real shock to the most-affected businesses hurts their capacity to borrow through normal commercial channels,” Goldman writes. “The Federal Reserve should cut rates substantially, but the main impact of such measures would be psychological.” That is not inconsequential. For better—or, as Bernie Sanders would say, for worse—the stock market has come to have a huge effect on the real economy, rather than the other way around. As this column noted, research from Goldman Sachs last year showed that the impact of falling stock prices has increased significantly in recent years. Psychologists also describe our familiar tendency to feel the pain of losses far more acutely than the pleasure of profits. So, the 13% drop in the S&P could readily lead to the reduction, or at least the deferral, of consumption by the moneyed class, whose members own most of the stocks and do most of the spending. The coronavirus is already crimping travel plans; further falls in the stock market would exacerbate cutbacks.

But investors should note that, after steep declines, stocks usually have been up substantially a year later. Jeffrey DeMaso, director of research for the excellent Independent Adviser for Vanguard Investors newsletter, looked at the 55 days over the past 33 years when the S&P 500 has fallen by 3.5% or more (as in Thursday’s 4.4% plunge). He found that, following 45 of those plunges, Vanguard’s S&P index fund has been up an average of 20% a year later. Not a bad bet.

So, don’t lament that you didn’t sell yesterday. A year from now, history says you’ll be glad you didn’t

The end.

Thanks, Pierre. Awesome read.

Sure. I’ll take all that under advisement as the Asian market crashes through the floor and the futures are down 200 points.

When it is the darkest, the rally will come!

Asai is now up a percent. What changed? What News?

US futures up, too. I think it’s a dead cat bounce. It’s too early to recover.

R312 Reports that the Bank of Japan is going to take action to stabilize the market.

Why don't they just let the markets play out?

It's all legalized gambling anyway. Why prop it up artificially? That's part of the reason the big correction is occuring all at once, rather than slower.

[quote] it’s a dead cat bounce

Pics please.

[quote] Why don't they just let the markets play out?

Trump, dear. The markets justify his existence.

The banks have limited power to ease this pain and US Fed has already used every tool at his disposal.

Prepare for another huge drop today.

Dow up 300 at open.

The U.S. Federal Reserve is likely to join other global central banks in cutting interest rates aggressively in response to the coronavirus scare, Goldman Sachs economists said Sunday. With fears over a global slowdown intensifying, the Fed likely will announce a 50 basis point cut at its March meeting, if not sooner, the firm said. In all, Goldman sees the Fed cutting 100 basis points this year, which is an increase from just Friday, when it saw a cut of 75 basis points.

Interest rates can’t make up for permanently lost business. There industries are going to be hit so hard that many will fail:

Tourism

Disney, amusement parks

Baseball, marathons, sport gatherings

Cruse lines

Airlines

Hotels

Insurers for these industries, if something like this has been insured. Business disruption insurance?

Trains, busses, taxi, Uber, Lyft

Concerts, plays, other shows

Las Vegas

Ptown, New Orleans

And everybody else that makes money from the people who make money from those companies.

R320, this is caused by a market shock and not a permanent decline in consumption. Most of what you have in your list will come back as consumption increases.

Tourism has suffered a few times: 9-11 and SARS being two examples. And insurers are hot everytime there's a natural disaster like a hurricane, earthquake etc.

It seems to be ok, did Trump step down?

It seems to be ok, did Trump step down?

lol, the fed can’t stop a fucking virus, but Trump investors are dumb as shit.

China turning off the factories for a month is definitely going to have an impact on goods, so prices on everything will likely go up.

This is a dead cat bounce with is typical after a major drop The market will continue to go down.

R320 interest rates don’t make up for lost business but they do enable more cash flow in times of lost business. It helps businesses navigate the rough waters (not being able to get inventory because of factories temporarily shutting down etc., but keeping expenses paid up) there are many aspects to it but lower interest rates can definitely help companies in times of distress such as this. Where we still ha e the consumer - but we are slowed down in getting the product.

Not all industries are t he same - Travel And tourism is a little Different - I’m speaking more towards the retail Sector end of things

Up 1200 at the close. I guess we'll se if this rally has legs or if it's a bounce.

I read China’s horrible air pollution has cleared, from the shutdown!

Ha! Yeah, it was the same thing with the Bejing Olymipcs when production stopped about a month in advance of the games.

This stock market bullshit is all smoke and mirrors, just like the corona virus itself. Fake news.

R329 That's already old news. They have been restarting the factories since last week. Many are churning out protective gears to deal with the viral outbreaks.

Haha to the CARONAVIRUS fear monger who claimed Monday would be a BLOODBATH.

Now its a Dead Cat Bounce. This is the 2008 redux that we've been avoiding.

Shoulda bought last week.

China was up and running last week.

People are still flying.

The world is still turning.

Bernie is going to win the Dem ticket.

Dems will be in a mess straight through elections.

Trump will do what he does and ensure the markets do as best they can.

Will the stocks drop again? Possibly.

But yeah, they always come back up.

LOL at 320 with her delusions that Ptown and New Orleans tourism has a fucking drop in the bucket of the stocks.

R334, I meant that businesses there will suffer. Holding stock doesn’t apply. I thought that was obvious.

[quote] R333: Haha to the CARONAVIRUS fear monger who claimed Monday would be a BLOODBATH. Now its a Dead Cat Bounce.

No, R333. This is what I wrote last Friday:

[quote] R262: Still, next week I expect a short lived dead cat bounce, then resumption of the downward spiral.

We’d probably all agree with you that “they [stocks] always come back up”, but what we don’t know is how long that will take. In 2003 the market decline lasted ~3 years. In the crash, it took a couple years, IIRC. I still think this decline will continue. If not this week, then soon. I don’t know right now where it will bottom-out, or when, but we haven’t seen the bottom yet.

Have been out of the market for 2+ years. Dove in with orders yesterday on solid stocks that took a hit. Made 5% today. Now do I take the money and run.....or?

R337, everyone must make their own decisions. Do you think people are done panicking? I don’t.

R337 NO.

Let the market do its thing. If it goes down oh well.

If it goes up, you'll profit.

Markets go down and they always go up.

5% is nothing. If they are solid stocks, you'll see a bigger return soon enough.

I don't think this little flu scare that the media is trying to make a thing will bring us back to the Dot.com bust and 2008 recession that people are likening it to.

And yes it is a little flu scare.

R339 - think you just convinced me to sell. If it goes down ... not oh well - I will lose 5%. I’m feeling deja vu to the last market crashes where everyone was suddenly a stock player and the mantra “ market always goes up over time” is everywhere. It’s all about the start and end point. Not sure I want to lose money - even if I can make it back in 5 years.

Dead cat likely to fall over a couple hundred by morning.

They just announced the sixth death in the US, so it's going to cause more panic.

Pence, of course, is issuing press releases praising Donald Trump's response to the coronavirus.

The Nikkei is now down 260 points.

It will drop today. Huge gains yesterday on what? NOTHING. The Fed has nothing to give. There’s going to be an endless stream of media pronouncements about infections and deaths in the coming weeks and months in the US. China and Japan are still effectively shut down. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

R344, agreed. I'm betting on it.

Dumpy this morning.

Market is rigged. They’ve learned to print their way out of it. Billionaires thrive, little folks die.

China has been reopening r344.

Fed just cut interest rates. First emergency cut since 2008. 50 basis point cut to 1.125%

Trump will be happy. I understand he makes million every time the rates are cut.

Just my opinion but I would think that this emergency cut was already priced in/anticipated by yesterday's huge market increase. So it could only go sideways and maybe even lower.

Bull or Bear we profit.

Yeah, the fed bump rally was modest and short lived. We even headed back into negative territory within minutes.

And now down 500.

Dumped this AM - after less than 24 hours. And it fell an hour after opening. I made the right decision for a change. After not being in the market for 2+ years, glad I jumped in for the day. But thinking this is headed down.

These wild swings happened in the last two crashes. The market can't find a direction with all the uncertainty. The rate cut was a stupid move no doubt pressured by trump. At least if he is re-elected he will get to deal with the mess he created. We will have none of the common tools needed to pull us out of the next recession, one that is on the near horizon.

R356, there's still stimulus packages as a tool.

Market isn't fooled. Rate cut can't fix the supply chains or cure the disease.

r357, Yes but the republican tax cut has already added $1 trillion to the debt. A stimulus package will add a lot on top of that. How will we ever pay the debt if we eventually raise interest rates? The republicans are once again fucking up the economy in a big way then handing it over to the democrats to fix.

Eh, so we'll be testing MMT, r359.

The market and the concerns will quiet once the panic stops and people realize this is a disease that affects primarily the elderly. Young working people will be fine.

Dumping now.

And despite the Fed’s foolish rate cut, the floor drops out again.

How about another 0.50 rate cut tomorrow?

Their levers aren't working.

DJIA up what this morning? Down 600+ now.

Buy the rumor/sell the news, r365.

I just bought some stock in my IRA

Trump’s interference in the Feds is unprecedented. Where is the outcry?

There were people buying yesterday during the rally who took their profits today. I expected it would bring the index down.

[quote] no one knows exactly what the Fed does

CNBC is panicking: their god Cheeto is failing them.

Screaming on CNBC. "OMG NOT AGAIN!!!!"

Dow down 750, 10 Year T-Note yield below 1%. Apparently the rate cut was seen as a panic move which only served to spook the markets.

I hope trump is shitting himself. He must realize he can't do much to stop the one thing he took credit for. Maybe he can call Obama for advice.

Is Steve Sansani the bond guy? He was literally screaming, defending Trump.

Another DJIA -1200 day?

SPX under 3000.

Ha! You just know that Trump is yelling at his TV right now and trying to figure out how to blame the Fed.

A good first step would be to remove Pence and the clueless HHS guy from being in charge of the Covid-19 and get the virology team he fired so he could fund his "wall".

The cat has bounced. Down we go.

The market always panics - really nothing else like it. I bought some stuff on Friday but held off yesterday knowing it was a dead cat bounce. I will keep dipping my toe in every move down. History shows when there are moves like this the year ends up 20%.

It will be a crazy year with the election - but all will be well unless Bernie gets in - then it will be time to leave the country. But that won't happen, Obama will hold his nose and endorse Biden. After that Biden will be off to the races.

the emergency cut makes it so transparent of their attempt in manipulating the market into a fake rally. Haha!

CDC is no longer reporting how many tests it’s done and how many are positive. Everyone suspects Trump is behind it & is freaking out that we don’t know what’s happening with the virus.

Obama is friend to Biden.

Obama is friend to Biden.

[quote] And despite the Fed’s foolish rate cut, the floor drops out again.

[quote] How about another 0.50 rate cut tomorrow?

[quote] Their levers aren't working.

Trump worries about the stock market, the Fed really doesn't care about the stock market much, their main interest is in the overall economy. The rate cut isn't to help the stock market, but as a boost to the economy. Lower borrowing cost help spur the economy. The overall economy isn't doing as great as Trump would have you believe, and Coronavirus fears are causing people to stay home more which equals less money being spent and a lower economic output. The rate cut was to make the economy do better, not the stock market.

Trump wanted the Fed to cut interest rates and nowthe m market plunged...it started plunging as soon as the rate was cut. Trump! The childish fool.

Trump wanted the Fed to cut interest rates and nowthe m market plunged...it started plunging as soon as the rate was cut. Trump! The childish fool.

Actually, r387, it's not unusual at all for that to happen. It is literally known as "buy the rumor, sell the news". Market went up yesterday in anticipation of a rate cut and now traders are taking their profits.

Funniest thing to me is that Trump doesn't think the Fed did enough. The fool actually thinks the cut should have been steeper.

I’m honestly now debating if we need to elect Trump. This economy that he artificially propped up with a $1 trillion tax cut and massive borrowing - and now using the little juice left in interest rate lowering - WILL crash in coming year or two. So if Dems get elected, TOTAL blame will be on Dems and we may shout for the next decade,

Is it worth winning the battle (this election) but losing the war (the thorough discrediting of Republican led government ).? Not sure the danger of what Trump will do in 4 years exceeds the damage to Dems from being the part of recession.

If Trump is elected, the crash would very possibly deliver both House and Senate into solid Dem majority in 2022 to block any Trump craziness.

R389, I think that's too clever by half. The chief executive has a lot of power. Best not to have Cheeto for another 4+ years (+ b/c ...).

Well, my husband is starting the work to remortgage. We have a variable rate. It’s low. But since the fed cute the rate, we’ll remortgage, take about $50k out of the house and have the pretty much the same monthly payment we have now & a 30 year rate rather than a variable.

r391, What will you do with the $50k?

R391 - the rate cut impacts variable Mortgages and HELOC’s a lot more than a 30 year fixed rate... the 30 yr isn’t really effected as much..

Home repairs & minor reno, R392. The house is getting old.

R393, I think the poster is saying that they are moving out of a variable rate and into a 30-year and still keeping payments the same with equity coming out.

R395 - I know that's what he was saying. If he wanted to take advantage of the rate cut he should refinance into another variable NOT a 30 year fixed.

HELOC's will also benefit from the cut. But that fixed rate 30 year isn't...

Biden is inspiring confidence, market set to jump 700 points.

R397 - I think you mean the market is relieved communism isn't taking over. Wait until you see the Trump rally in November.

Trump is President currently, why isn't the market rallying already, r398?

R399 - market doesn't like uncertainty. After Trump's win in Nov It will rally bigley. It will actually rally in Nov if Biden wins but not as much.

R399 - the market doesn't like uncertainty. After Trump's win in Nov it will rally bigley. It will also rally if Biden wins but not as much.

Looks like the Biden Bounce is holding. Bet it annoys Trump.

Deadcat seems to have bounced its way back with one of its 9 lives.

Glad I bought last week rather than panicked. 2019 and 2020 Roth IRAs funded and done.

Sanders winning in my home state of CA shows me "educated" Dem voters are still fucking confused about what its going to take to beat Trump and thus he will win.

Gains in the market under him are sure to continue.

Market rigged. Just means top 5% are getting rich.

Netflix, Comcast, and similar stocks ought to do well as people seek home entertainment, provided they don’t have other business lines of which I’m unaware.

Hi R404, whether the market is rigged or not is immaterial to me, as far as my investments and retirement are concerned. My holdings are far too small for the Illuminati to care. The trick to it, for me, is to learn the rules of the game, rigged or not, and make what I can, which can still be substantial.

I write this because some people use the “market is rigged” idea, and similar, to forsake the market entirely, as if it’s impossible to make a ton of money there, and that’s not true. It is one of the best places that the average person can build wealth, along with a primary residence.

The Dow is down 8.4% from its high, as of today.

While there is a lot of talk of how the stock market is the road to wealth - wait until next year and the conversation will be about how I lost a huge part of my 401k. Opinions about the market vary with how well it’s done recently - and people are rolling in their gains right now. Now is not the time to invest. Sit on the sidelines through the election and next year. Earn your 1-2% and be safe.

800 point drop at open.

The swings in the stock market remind me of right before the high tech stock market crash.

Bloomberg @business · 13m The coronavirus outbreak will cost the airline industry $63 billion to $113 billion in lost revenue, according to one industry estimate

Is the drop because of reports that the virus mutated and there's a second strain?

I don't know, R412,

I hadn't heard about a second strain.

I heard today that the worldwide death rate is actually 3.4%.

Though, many have third world medical care. And, this is the percent of those who get sick (I think), so it’s hard to comprehend without knowing how many get sick. If, for example, only 10, 000 people got sick, then it’s not as bad as if several hundred million get sick.

Still, it’s a bad change from the 1.5% we were hearing about until yesterday.

R411 The airlines deserve to suffer, not sorry.

Why do you say that, Sylvia?

Uh, have you traveled at all in the last two decades R417? Flying is a miserable nickel and dimed experience from beginning to end. It’s fucking awful.

“Air Rage” was getting a lot of press before 9-11. That rage is compounded by the uncomfortable, cramped conditions on the flight. I think if 9-11 hadn’t happened, I bet there would have been Congressional hearings and maybe some good changes made. One bad change is the flight attendants now emphasize that the are “there for your safety”, which is just an excuse to be authoritarian.

R418 and R419 covered it. Bullshit charges for things that used to come standard. Declining service. Fewer and fewer direct routes. Oh, and remember when the airlines jacked up their prices back in 2008 or so because of the high price of oil...and then the price of oil came down and airfares stayed the same?!

Fuck them right in the ass.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

If you get sick and recover, you are immune to re-infection with that strain. It is possible that you are also therefore immune to the second strain, but I am just speculating.

[quote]If you get sick and recover, you are immune to re-infection with that strain.

That is not at all certain.

True, R424, but I believe it was Dr. Fauci of the CDC who said it’s not possible. But he’s making an educated speculation. We need more evidence to know for sure.

I think I heard previously that a pandemic like this is deflationary. I‘ve never personally lived in a deflationary period. What can we expect, besides generally lower prices?

Depends. If they need to inject a stimulus, it could be inflationary.

Hmm, I’m guessing that they will, R427. I would prefer deflation for myself. Both are bad for society.

It's much easier to control inflation than deflation, there aren't as many tools available to get us out of a deflationary economy.

It's much easier to control inflation than deflation, there aren't as many tools available to get us out of a deflationary economy.

Yeah, deflationary spirals are the kiss of death.

So will this hurt us or not?

[quote]generally lower prices

But nothing left on the shelves?

Lower prices aren’t necessarily a good thing. People start to delay making purchases in anticipation of prices going lower which can lead to a deflationary spiral when it’s affecting most or all prices which reduces the incentive for producers to, well, produce. Too much inflation is bad, deflation is bad, a little inflation is just right.

Prepare for another 700-800 point drop at open today.

Yikes: "The yield on the 10-year Treasury note went as low as 0.699% on Friday for the first time in history."

Looks like another ugly open.

Global markets have lost 9 trillion since the outbreak began.

Thank the coronavirus for slowing down the climate change and probably putting an end to Trump's re-election.

At 7:18 a.m. ET, Dow e-minis were down 537 points, or 2.06%. S&P 500 e-minis were down 67.5 points, or 2.24% and Nasdaq 100 e-minis were down 222.5 points, or 2.57%.

What does Trump mean when he says that we should be paying "less than zero"?

Down 711 at the open.

r441, the market isn't open yet.

R442 yeah it is, it opens at 9:30 EST.

It was 2 minutes into the opening when I posted that, r432. Not sure what time it is in your world, but in mine, its 9:43 and the market is down 757

Sorry, I'm screwed up with the time zone.

900 down.

Please don’t consider this bragging but my partner has a lot, I’m not really sure how much, of family money in a trust. It’s not mine and I’ll never see a dime of it but he came home from a long trip last night and was particularly subdued. I asked him what was the matter and he told me that his stock portfolio is down almost $2 million in the last couple of weeks. I reminded him that he hasn’t lost anything unless he sells now and that he knew as well as I that a correction was long overdue. Then I poured him a strong drink and changed the subject.

[quote]Please don’t consider this bragging but my partner has a lot, I’m not really sure how much, of family money in a trust.

If he lost $2M - a lot.

R448, what I did was sell enough to maintain my modest lifestyle. It’s not too late to do so as well, IMHO. It’s a relief, as long as the dollar doesn’t collapse.

Surprised at the rally at the end there. Was sure we were looking at another sub-1000 close. I guess the shorts didn't want to go into the weekend holding a position, which is kind of good news.

Do people seem to be seeking safe havens (if such a thing still exists) rather than pulling out completly Two electric utilities I have in my portfolio actually went up today.

I don't think it's safe havens at this point as much as it is some sectors are clearly oversold and have become buying opportunities.

CNN's John Harwood:

President Trump doesn't just reject economists' warnings that he needs to act to avert recession.

he told me today coronavirus is helping the economy by keeping American dollars from traveling abroad.

R453 If American dollars don't travel abroad, it would lead to world recession. No, that won't drag us down at all. Does he think the US economy could grow alone just by printing money?

[quote] It’s a relief, as long as the dollar doesn’t collapse

And if it does we are all fucked. There's not much we can do to protect ourselves from that.

My brother bought gold years ago. But that wasn’t needed even during the Great Depression. In the US, it was only ever needed by the Confederacy after the civil war. Their currency became worthless.

When my bro told me, I said I’d buy turnips. He asked “why”. I said “because I’ll sell you my turnips for your gold”. He laughed.

This is not virus related. It’s a tangent, but it so good, I have to share it. Chase is offering a $1000 for new customers who get the Chase Ink card. It also pays cash back for telcom charges. I just have my telcom bills sent directly to the card, then pay the card. I made $275 last year.

Oh, it’s a business card, so I used my SSN as a business TIN, as directed, my income as earnings, and business name of “Smith Consulting”.

Check it out for all the details. $1000 is the biggest reward I’ve ever seen. I earn nothing from promoting this.

I can’t post the link, but you can google it. Search with “chase ink business 1000 bonus”. Don’t take the travel rewards. The cash award was fourth on my list.

so Pierre at r457, you are saying you don't actually own your own business?

A reminder that I am an inexpert investor, and past behavior of the market is not indicative of future behavior. Anything you do is your responsibility. You should throughly research any decision to buy, sell, or hold. My predictions are meant for entertainment, only.

Hi R458, I own my own unincorporated consulting business. Chase recognizes this is the case for many people and writes that if you don’t have a TIN, to use your SSN. Do what you want, I was just passing along the news of an incredible deal.

Futures are poised to open down another 600 points. Oil could drop to the high $20 range.

Turnips rot.

Gold will be here until the sun becomes a red giant.

R457 - did this just start. I just got a chase ink unlimited biz card end of January. They were offering a 500 dollar bonus with 3k spend within 3 months of account opening.

Damn, 1k?

Hi R463, I don’t know when it started, and it is $1k. I’ve never see it before. Maybe they will honor the latest offer if you call and ask nicely? It’s amazing how accommodating credit card companies can be sometimes.

I once got 150,000 American Airlines frequent flyer miles in a promotion. It was a decade ago and I still haven’t used all of them yet. I've been thinking recently that I should convert them and use them to buy a consumer product, especially since I don’t expect to be flying again for awhile. That was the best non-cash-back deal I ever got.

Nikkei down 4.5% and falling

Everything’s tanking. Dow futures are down 1000 points, Japan stocks are down 4% and Australia down 5%. There’s an oil price war going on between Russia and the Saudis and oil prices have dropped another 20% on top of the 30% they dropped last week. And 10-year Treasury rates continue to plummet with futures down to another record low.

Oh and NK has fired off 3 missiles of some sort, on top of Covid 19 shutting down half of Italy. Lots of instability and fear out there. It’s starting to feel like 2008 all over again.

Well sounds like we should be kissing our asses goodbye tomorrow. Happy Monday!

Woah... Stock Futures Were Halted due to huge declne.

OH, we're so fucked tomorrow. Really fucked. This is what you get for sending Ben Carson out to explain the Coronavirus response on the Sunday morning shows.

Yeah, I saw some of Carson’s interview and he sounded dishonest, wrong, and slavishly devoted to Trump.

The market may halt right after opening or not even open at all. And we still won’t have seen the bottom.

1200 point drop expected if it opens at all.

Wow. A worldwide correction.

My portfolio dropped about 12%. I think it will get worse but then better over time (1-2 years). I like my stock picks and I am holding my stocks 20+ years.

Wild ride will continue.

Come Monday the S&P 500 would need to fall 594 points to 2,377.90 for trading to be halted for the day.

So the world is going to hell in an hand basket tonight and all Trump can think to do is troll Cuomo on Twitter.

[quote]There are no mixed messages, only political weaponization by people like you and your brother, Fredo!

The Federal Reserve did itself no favors with the rate cut.

If you can borrow $1 million at negative interest, but anything you buy will lose value, it is similar to pushing on a string.

Even if you can borrow the money, the new car or fancy computer probably won’t be available because the supply chains are fucked up.

The PMI numbers out of China are a joke, even though they dropped by nearly 50%. They are taking a hit now, but threatening factory owners to run their machines so that electricity numbers and pollution output shows “economic activity”.

A quarter of employees have returned to work. All the shipyards are stagnant.

Apple is fucked.

The Fed will cut the overnight rate again, the market will pop for one day, and plummet more.

The longer this goes, the more likely he takes us to war to win the election.

R475

Futures already have it trading limit down.

Basically, the market won’t open tomorrow morning.

Another rate cut before the FOMC meeting would induce more panic. The repo facilities will have to be expanded significantly, and another round of quantitive easing will have to be implemented immediately.

None of that will help the situation outside of the concrete canyons of Wall Street, but it will delay the panic for a few more days.

Killary Clinton dropped her documentary, and Bill is unloading on the “trailer trash” that bill and carville coined N

Where’s the coordinated response from the central banks? I’m not seeing it. Where’s the stimulus? I want another $500 check.

Meanwhile, the asset that started the evening's avalanche, crude, continues to crater with West Texas now trading with a $27-handle, down more than $15 (!) from Friday's close.

Unprecedented.

This morning will be a bloodbath.

Long Costco!

We are headed towards a depression. I pray it isn’t so but it surely looking like it. Buckle up.

Hallelujah!

Dow futures point to opening drop of nearly 1,300 points, Treasury yields plunge amid oil price war!!!

As of 2:27 a.m. ET Monday, futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 1,236 points, implying an opening loss of 1,284.78 points at the open. The S&P 500 futures and Nasdaq-100 futures also indicated significant losses at Monday’s open. The sharp declines in the futures market signaled more turbulence ahead after a roller-coaster week that saw the S&P 500 swing up or down more than 2.5% for four days straight.

Oil now a ‘bigger problem for markets than the coronavirus,’ analyst says

Why on earth would Russia and Saudi Arabia institute this price war? The economy is not headed toward recession, this is full on depression. Coronavirus is going to get worse for months and months, not better.

Well, bye bye Trump. Nice knowing ya.

[quote]There are no mixed messages, only political weaponization by people like you and your brother, Fredo!

Just the kind of calm, measured response you want from the leader of the country in a time of crisis.

Market down 1700 points at open.

Kramer is freaking the fuck out.

First breaker is about to trip.

Circuit breaker coming.

Fifteen minutes hold on trading.

1st circuit breaker halted trading just now OMG.

1900 down.

Wonder what Trump is doing at this very moment. Wonder if Fox is beginning to rethink their loyalty.

Kramer declares end of bull market OMG

Kramer is criticizing Biden b/c he wants to increase corporate tax rates. They're deflecting from their Cheeto god.

I think the last time it's been halted was during the 2008 crash.

Stop adding OMG and LOL after every fucking post!

Next breaker at 13% then 20%. At 20%, market closes for the day. Holy crap.

R499 is getting hit badly today LOL

I'm blocking the LOL/OMG troll. He adds nothing to the thread and should just kill himself!

Kramer is an idiot. Today changed everything. What Biden or anyone said last month probably doesn't hold true today.

And hate to say it but the market is expecting those interest rate cuts. If they don't come it's going to get worse.

Blocked you too, R502.

Trading reopening shortly. Prepare for another huge drop.

How much more can they cut them?

Trump really wants negative interest rates.

R502's portfolio is clearly DEVASTATED lol.

Is this circuit breaker really effective? Psychologically it gets everyone more spooked.

Oh wow, Kramer is contradicting Trump, calling Gottleib's advisement "not fake news."

R508, I guess they did studies on it, and it's better to have it than not.

We will find out in two minutes!

[quote]Stop adding OMG and LOL after every fucking post!

#OMG #LOL

I think recession is coming. Australia, Japan already in recession.

Can’t blame Biden - the one good day the market had last week was after Joe’s Super Tuesday comeback.

I hope the OMG and LOL posters are more mature in real life than they are on the DL!

[quote]Wonder what Trump is doing at this very moment.

No idea, but I am eternally grateful that I am not responsible for cleaning his underwear.

Kramer: "What a fabulous time to buy a house!"

I didn't need to retire anyway.

Trump is holding a fundraiser in Florida today. Kramer was rather surprised. "A fundraiser for a small business?" he asked, sarcastically.

Their. God. Is. Falling.

Is this officially a bear market?

Also, it's interestingly that Trump's biggest buddies -- Russia and Saudi. - started this latest sell off.

I never watch CNBC but turned it on out of curiosity. This guy is losing it talking a bunch of gibberish.

Kramer's voice is like nails on a chalkboard

Kramer says buy Amazon. He's looking for stuff to prop up.

Kramer wants more fiscal stimulus.

Hmmm... the circuit break actually reverses the downward trend.

He usually does, r521. I'm not even logging into my retirement accounts today. I don't want to know.

R514 - it wasn't Biden that cause the rally, it was the fact that Bernie suddenly wasn't a sure thing. NO one wants Bernie - certainly not corporate america.

It makes you wonder - with Biden being basically senile, things would be much worse if he was the president during this mess. He doesn't even know what day it is.

But at least we can say "Merry Christmas" again!

R527, you're mistaken. Like Reagan, Biden rely on the experts for the domestic nitty gritty. Biden is very deferential to economic expertise. He's not like Cheeto.

boring.. the market might be sideways from here on till @ 3 pm. But maybe the last hour would be most fun to watch.

Can’t listen to Kramer. Markets will be up and down more or less whole day. Let’s see at 3.30 for the final 30 mins

R527, take those "Biden is senile" talking points elsewhere. It's already been reported that it's a coordinated attack by the BernieBros. Biden Is not senile and he's certainly in no worse health than Trump or Bernie.

Anyway, looks like the timeout helped a bit.

[quote]Kramer wants more fiscal stimulus.

Pics please.

CNBC: President Donald Trump said on Monday that falling oil prices were good for consumers, while he blamed the media and Russia and Saudi Arabia “arguing over the price and flow of oil” for sharply declining stock prices.

“Good for the consumer, gasoline prices coming down!” Trump wrote in one of a series of posts on Twitter.

If you want some good news, Halliburton stock has dropped 35% today.

Dick Cheney, we condole you.

Trump's tweets are unhinged today. All of them. He's all fake news and Obama is corrupt.

Nero is fiddling like mad today.

What did he say about Obama?

I mean, the idea of it is so stupid, it’s funny.

[quote]It makes you wonder - with Biden being basically senile, things would be much worse if he was the president during this mess. He doesn't even know what day it is.

When Biden gets the nom, will you vote for Trump because your cosplay-commie heart-attack-on-legs isn't on the ticket?

r537...

[quote]The Obama/Biden Administration is the most corrupt Administration in the history of our Country! 7:40 AM

I really hope trump has a major health problem from all the stress.

Weird. Seems like we should get a major and long term correction but it’s all over the place. I honestly am unsure if this continues to dive.

Clearly there is short term impact. Profits for the year are screwed. However, the virus will likely die off in the summer heat and humidity. Question is whether there’s such severe retrenchment and disruption in the interim, that psychology creates a downward spiral.

If your own incompetence begins to show....blame Obama for everything.

Bet Trump voters and r543 are still too dumb to see it though.

I'd say psychology plays a big part, r543. While there is an interruption in production it will bounce back as will consumption. The only wildcard is if this turns out to be a long drawn out thing and if will we see bankruptcies and job loss as a result, which would then have an impact on consumption bouncing back,

F&F r543

Oh why bother r546?

R543 has been F&Fd by the universe. Apparently since birth.

[quote] However, the virus will likely die off in the summer heat and humidity.

It is not being affected in high heat and humidity in Malaysia. At all.

The world is moving into recession. It’s been a long time coming.

r547, that may be true, but F&F the motherfucker anyway.

Looks like Muriel caught up with him, Bootsy/r549.

It's been orderly since 3:00 pm. I was expecting far more volatility in the last hour of trading.

Does anyone remember the meme going around before the 2016 election that talked about what happened to the economy when all three branches of government were controlled by republicans? I remember the 1929 crash and Bush world economy crash were two events cited.

Thanks R548. You are right. Looked up countries and it’s really small numbers all over - but it’s is all over - except China. Interesting that warm weather countries are getting hit. Studies have show that transmissibility of the flu virus drops dramatically in heat and humidity. Hard to know what is people who travelled vs domestic transmission.

The poor Trump voter is now also [Troll 5788]. Marked forever, just like his impeached master. No deplorable Trump bs appreciated here, trolls.

R525 The flu season is reversed in the Southern Hemisphere.

R552 this is not a flu virus it is a cold virus. Colds survive in both winter and summer. The biggest problem is that this virus is new and people don't have immunities to it. When colds were introduced to virgin populations it was the same thing. A bunch of people died from the common cold. The reason colds don't make us very sick is because we all have immunities to all the colds that go around every year.

I still think we're going to see the markets bounce back in a few weeks when we're past the worst of the pandemic.

[bold]The largest point drop in history occurred on March 9, 2020.[/bold] Must be the most infuriating shit stain on his shithole presidency for Trump!!!! OMG!!!

Dow closes with decline of 2,000 points, almost ending 11-year bull market

The stunning losses came on the very day that marked the 11-year anniversary of the longest bull run on record.

Wall Street took a beating on Monday, as collapsing oil prices and fears about the impact of the coronavirus almost nudged the American economy out of the longest bull market in history, exactly 11 years to the day since it began.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed the day with a loss of around 2,000 points Monday, part of a global market rout that saw spiraling sell-offs in the energy sector amid the biggest drop for crude oil since the Gulf War in 1991.

There's always a tweet, episode 5,843:

I don't think this virus is going away any time soon. People have been getting tested positive again after supposedly having recuperated. This virus is hardy.

Corporations are going to need help from the government!

R555, do you know if the cold and flu were unknown to the indigenous pre-Columbian population? I am just curious. I know Small Pox was, but never thought about those.

Lotsa Americans got infected with the more aggressive strain of the virus like people in Italy. So you can only hope and pray that it will go away before the GOP convention. SAD!

Myth: The virus is just a mutated form of the common cold

No, it's not. Coronavirus is a large family of viruses that includes many different diseases. SARS-CoV-2 does share similarities with other coronaviruses, four of which can cause the common cold. All five viruses have spiky projections on their surfaces and utilize so-called spike proteins to infect host cells. However, the four cold coronaviruses — named 229E, NL63, OC43 and HKU1 — all utilize humans as their primary hosts. SARS-CoV-2 shares about 90% of its genetic material with coronaviruses that infect bats, which suggests that the virus originated in bats and later hopped to humans.

Evidence suggests that the virus passed through an intermediate animal before infecting humans. Similarly, the SARS virus jumped from bats to civets (small, nocturnal mammals) on its way into people, whereas MERS infected camels before spreading to humans.

When I come home at night to my first floor apartment I take my shoes off. Then I pull up a chair next to a window out onto the alley and put my bare feet out the window to cool them off.

Usually within a few minutes I can feel someone kissing my bare soles, sometimes nibbling and occasionally a few tickles. I assume this is a form of massage, to help me feel better, and I am grateful. Soon I feel a hard slender shape moving back and forth on my soles, and eventually, moisture. Then the sensation stops and I take my feet off the window-sill and there's usually a creamy white substance on them. Is that the coronavirus, or is it a disinfectant protecting me? Not sure and I've seen nothing in the news about it. Should I use sanitary wipes on my feet after that?

"Dow Joans" -- Donal Trump very intellrigent.

r559, China is already coming back online.

r560, well, yes, look at the airline industry for example. There are likely to be bankruptcies which will lad to large scale job loss if assistance is needed but not given.

As the market falls and uncertainty abounds, gold prices go up. It’s up 14% since December, to 1683.

I bought some gold coins back in 2011 and 2012 to fill out my collection, not for investment purposes, but do you think It’s a good time to sell, or should I wait?

Another good movie is [italic] Rollover [/italic] (1981) with Jane Fonda and Hume Cronyn. It holds up well to time.

Dow Joan....

I’m having an appraiser come tomorrow for my ReFi. I wish they’d hurry-up. I’m afraid a lackadaisical approach may scuttle it if banks stop lending, like they did in 2008.

Has Trump blamed Obama for the drop in stock prices yet?

R570, Trump did make a telling comment at the CDC. He said he didn’t want those people on the boat to disembark and raise the numbers because their infections were not “his fault”. Focusing on the last part here. He’s incredibly judgmental. Everything is assigned blame to someone, in his mind. No wonder he’s so insecure! He raises the subject of fault, and then is bothered that others pick up on it and assign it to him. It’s the last thing I would think of, assigning blame due to people getting sick on a boat.

The tweet at R558 is fake. Trump never tweeted that, though it absolutely sounds like something he’d say.

My bond mutual fund was up today.

Putin screws the stupid and ignorant Trump again...along with his good friends the Saudis. And stupid Trump does not evenbknow his own country is a major oil producer, what a fool.

Wow, this thread has really been popular. Who knew so many people depended on the stock market so dearly?

Some of us. are just here for the schadenfreude.

It’s an extraordinary time.

The market is a kind of predictor of the ability of our economy to make money, i.e., function, in the time of Coronavirus. Since it’s numeric, it’s easy to understand and track, too.

Pierre/ r568 in 2008 the banks had major issues. It's not the same this time around. Banks are well capitalized.

Yeah - stock market is only relevant in how it affects the job market for the majority of Americans. And interest rates - since most of America is living on debt.

I’m curious if this is the push to allow some “socialist” programs to be enacted though.

The futures markets are showing modest gains after Trump promises substantial relief.

R561 I don't know about the indigenous pre-Columbian population but there were many deaths in Hawaii. When explorers went there they brought colds and a lot of death. Hawaiians had no immunity to colds.

I remember from the 2008 crash, that layoffs resulted really quickly, even before the market began to crater completely. I was down 66% at the bottom, though I made it back and more when the market recovered. Thanks, Obama! I didn’t want to go through that again, so I was more careful this time. I’m essentially completely out of stocks. I’d like to jump in again, to catch the rebound, but I don’t think this is a “V” shaped bear market like it was on 2008-2009. I think it’s more “U”-shaped, like the dot-com bubble in 2000-2003.

My brother in law isn’t going to sell until at the very bottom, as is his pattern. He can eat cat food as far as I care, but it’s mostly my sister’s money, and that really pisses me off. He’s a deplorable and a selfish, dishonest, jackass. No offense intended to furry jackasses.

So Trump says he’ll announce a payroll tax cut tomorrow and now the Dow futures are up 700+ points.

He already cut tax income by a trillion dollars - when the economy was already booming and there was NO emergency. Now he has left no ammunition - so he goes after one of the few things left to cut. ALL funded by debt. He gave away a trillion dollars that the next President will have to make up. I hate that he will once again get away with bankrupting his business and coming out smelling like a rose while other people pay. He is a con artist of the ages.

r584, I agree, but it's important to remember that it's not just Trump who has been doing this sort of thing. This is straight out of the Republican handbook and they've been doing this for many years now. Decades, actually.

Exactly R585 - and they somehow have maintained a reputation as fiscally conservative. Republicans have bankrupted America. Clinton was the only one to even care that the debt was spiraling out of control. Obama didn’t have a choice because of the mess Bush demoed on him. And now Biden will be in the same position.

Yet, we can’t afford health care. Just a trillion corporation tax cut and a payroll cut.

Guess who benefits the most from a payroll tax cut?

How Now Brown Juan?

r582 / Cassandra, the layoffs began in 2007 and by 2008 things had become dire. Typically the market is a lagging indicator.

Wouldn't a payroll stimulus have to pass Congress?

His only solution is to do what he's been doing - cut taxes on the wealthy. He's going to have to do an economic stimulus package (big spending) to make an impact on the actual economy, but we are already in huge deficit territory and the larger it grows the more an anchor it is on the economy.

Part of me morbidly hopes he wins another term just so he has to deal with the mess he and the other Republicans have created. But more than likely a Democrat will win, have to raise taxes and set things up in a responsible manner, but they'll be doing it right when a massive recession hits. So Trump will sit there and tweet until his fingers bleed that the Democrats destroyed his economy and Republicans will all agree with him and then in eight years we will get another Republican who will destroy the economy just as it's getting fully fixed.

It's ridiculous. I seriously hope the cycle does not repeat again.

[quote]Guess who benefits the most from a payroll tax cut?

Working people?

[quote]the "payroll" tax is often listed as "FICA", and it's 6.2% of a worker's income up to the first $137,700 in 2020. It funds the Social Security, and was last reduced by 2% in 2011 and 2012.

So he is reducing people’s Social Security retirement savings?

I recall my sister, under the influence of my Deplorable bro-in-law, when she heard about Obamacare, reflexively said, “I don’t think we can afford it.” But no such comments as a result of all the tax cuts, starting with Bush.

Long term capital gain taxes are really low. It’s 0% if your income is below $40,125. I’ve retired now and am able to manipulate my income and I sell my investments with LT capital gains so that my income after deductions is below that number. So I pay 0% on gains, usually.

Not true this year because I dumped everything.

Will congress vote for a payroll tax? Or can he just write an executive order

Thanks, R589. My recollection was off. But I do remember the people. Two, ay least, had recently moved to Boston for the job, and went back to Bumfuck.

From Twitter:

[quote]Asked about a payroll tax cut, Pelosi: “We are always willing to discuss something that is evidence and science based and focused on families that are affected.” Any payroll tax cut should be focused on those affected by the virus, Pelosi says.

um...how exactly do you ‘focus’ a payroll tax cut?

And Trump is going to dump all this on Biden.

Maybe Obama can give Joe advice, be like a shadow Vice President.

Link to part 2 if you all want to continue...

Not sure how a payroll tax will help. Isn't this more a production issue vs. a consumption issue? Apple may not have product to sell vs. not having buyers.

Like all Trump plans, this seems more PR stunt than any attempt to actually effectively responsibly address the problem.