CoronaVirus Freakout 5: We won’t get flued again!

I predict that the virus will take hold here by next winter, Trump will take advantage of the cold, the people who are too sick to protest, and the others who are afraid of public gatherings, to declare Marshall Law and stuff our constitution down the crapper. It’ll be up to the military to oust him, or not. It would be the last time we have the opportunity to save the Republic.

Great OP!

Best title.

The data coming out of China, especially over the last three days, has validated some of the more pessimistic epidemiological models.

The petri dish cruise ship is scary as fuck. If it is that easily transmitted in close quarters, densely populated cities are fucked.

A friend of mine was ranting yesterday because she was flying in through Chicago, internationally, and noted that nearly a third of the passengers disembarking an African origin flight were of Chinese descent.

Over 10,000 people who visited Wuhan are currently in the Bay area.

People need to prepare now, so they don’t panic later.

R2, Vaccination will be ready by November at the latest. My prediction. However other countries like Australia, India, or Romania will produce a vaccine 1st.

R2, but how exactly do we prepare? It will be contagious for years, unless there is a vaccine, so I don’t think you can possibly stockpile enough food. You’ll still have to earn an income. What can you do?

R3, Romania? LOLOLOLOLOL

cnn-The coronavirus crisis is raising questions over China's relationship with the World Health Organization

Sitting alongside Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing in January, World Health Organization director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus was effusive in his praise of the country's response to the coronavirus crisis.

But even as Ghebreyesus lauded "the transparency (China has) demonstrated," revelations were emerging that officials in Hubei province and Wuhan -- the city where the virus was first detected -- had downplayed news about the virus, even threatening medical whistleblowers with arrest.

Days later, the WHO declared a global public health emergency, and once again Tedros praised Beijing's response -- leading some critics to question the relationship between the two entities.

What is the WHO? The WHO was founded in 1948 under the auspices of the still infant United Nations (UN), with a mandate to coordinate international health policy, particularly on infectious disease.

Is it independent? The agency relied on funding and the cooperation of members to function. This gives wealthy member states considerable influence -- and has renewed a longstanding debate about whether the WHO is sufficiently independent to allow it to fulfill its purpose.

Many of WHO's critics argue that it is overly bureaucratic, bizarrely structured, too dependent on a handful of major donors, and often hamstrung by political concerns.

Is it an investigative body? The WHO does not usually have its own teams on the ground gathering information. Instead it relies on data provided by member states -- a structure that was blamed for the delays in declaring the 2013-2016 Ebola outbreak an emergency.

This means that the WHO is only as informed as its member states want it to be. If a country where an epidemic is developing does not share data, there is little the WHO can do about it.

With a government like China's, with a historical aversion to transparency and sensitivity to international criticism, that can be a problem.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R3

The vaccine for SARS failed. It created a dangerously outsized response and killed two girls.

Vaccines aren’t simple. Some inoculations suck - the big problem is immune system/overactive response the next exposure.

Coronavirus isn’t the same as the flu. For some reason it’s much harder to make a vaccine.

At the beginning of all this, the Chinese government arrested eight doctors that were texting among themselves about the virus and warning each other. I think they were a group of doctor friends or colleagues. One in particular has become a hero because he tried to raise the alarm. They hauled him off under arrest and he later died of the virus in custody, about a week ago. That’s the one whose heart failed, they put him on life support because they didn’t want to admit he was dead, then pulled the plug after a few hours. So much for transparency. I don’t even know how we know that happened.

The guy who’s the head of WHO now, director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, is getting extreme criticism from doctors. They say all he cares about is keeping trade going and going along with whatever the Chinese government says. The Chinese government says WHO can come in, and the CDC can’t (because the CDC has been very blunt and won’t lie for them. The CDC wants to quarantine them, WHO says not to). But I don’t think WHO got in either, they’re just saying they can “later” for now.

My vote for the next thread title is COVID 19 - Virus of a Thousand Talents.

Thanks 580 from the last thread. I must have the attacker blocked because I didn’t see it. It was kind of you.

Geneticist, hi! Did you see the acknowledgment section of the article I posted a while ago? While I am keeping an open mind on accidental release of an engineered virus (that may have then recombined) vs. entirely natural recombination, for sure the probable engineers were NOT creating a bioweapon. RB is good people. Anyway the authorities are aware of the theory.

As for not good people, Steven Bannon is an unkempt White Nationalist advisor to Trump. He is evil and a nut job.

Pandemics are right up nutjob Bannon's alley.

Anyways, I count myself as one genuinely concerned with the new information about autoimmune response to a second time infection, If that's accurate, then it rules out a vaccine, doesn't it? if a person has an autoimmune illness already does that mean their body will get the cytokine storm from this virus?

A few updates and points for interest:

The fourth death outside China occurred in France - an 80 year Chinese visitor from Wuhan who had been in hospital since January 25.

There are now theories that smoking may play a big role in people getting really sick with the virus. Over 50% of Chinese men sick whilst only about 3% pf Chinese women smoke which is also why more men are dying from the disease. I doubt the hideous air quality in most Chinese cities is doing anybody's lungs any good in particular smokers who are already compromised. The smoking link was also present with SARS & MERS.

Should the next title be "Flu me once?"

cnn-Japan has nine more confirmed coronavirus cases

There are nine more people in Japan, not on the Diamond Princess ship, who have tested positive for the novel coronavirus, the Japanese Mistry of Health, Labour, and Welfare said Saturday.

One person is a surgeon in his 50s who works at same hospital where another doctor tested positive earlier, in Wakayama Prefecture. Eight others are in Tokyo. Seven of them had close contact with a taxi driver who was found to be infected, the ministry said.

cnn--Diamond Princess cruise ship has 67 more coronavirus cases

Another 67 people onboard the Diamond Princess have tested positive for novel coronavirus, Japanese Health Minister Katsunobu Kato said on Saturday -- bringing the number of cases from the ship to 286.

More than 3,600 people, including 428 Americans, have been stuck on the cruise ship, which became a floating quarantine zone after dozens of people tested positive for the coronavirus.

Elsewhere in Japan, there are 39 confirmed cases of the virus, bringing the country's total to 325 -- the highest number of cases outside of mainland China.

One Japanese woman in her 80s, not from the ship, has died. The Health Ministry did not report any new cases on Friday.

cnn-First case in Africa: Friday marked the first confirmed coronavirus case in Africa, with a single patient in Egypt.

Parisians must be panicked over that Chinese tourist death. Couldn’t happen to a nastier populace. Rude, awful pieces of shit.

Africa is doomed

Goodbye sweet Darfur Orphan

R17 No we're not. And fuck you too.

the 80 year old woman's daughter is infected too, she's expected to recover ( in france )

Hawaii officials announced on Friday that a man in his 60s from Japan developed coronavirus symptoms while on vacation in Hawaii.

The man, who visited Maui and Oahu from January 28th to February 7th, tested positive for the disease upon his return to Japan. The man had not visited China recently, and Hawaii officials said he was likely infected in Japan or while in transit to Hawaii.

News of the man's case comes a day after Hawaii officials announced that the Center for Disease Control (CDC) sent flawed coronavirus testing kits to Hawaii.

[quote]Africa is doomed

Europe will be no picnic if Africa is overtaken by a pandemic -- imagine the exodus of Africans crossing the Mediterranean to reach countries with better healthcare and medicine. Do European governments let potentially disease-carrying land en masse?

R21, wow, i wonder if he was on the same flight...

Yes, you are, R19. And I rest my case.

Parisians are the fucking WORST.

I'm glad the cab drivers in NY have partition. Probably less likely to get it from passenger and vice versa

Japan to conduct clinical trials using HIV drugs. via NHK

What's the news on people who have recovered? What helped them recover? We haven't heard any details about that process. Are they just resting and staying hydrated?

R27, medication.

HIV treatments provide line of attack against coronavirus

TOKYO -- Doctors in Thailand and Japan have used HIV medications to treat patients infected with the novel coronavirus with apparent success. But why did they think to test drugs made to combat one pathogen on a seemingly completely different disease?

HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, hijacks white blood cells to replicate itself and eventually impairs the host's immune system. Once seen as incurable, HIV can now be brought under control by antiretroviral therapy -- mixtures of antiviral drugs that interfere with the virus's ability to reproduce, letting patients live normal lives.

These include lopinavir and ritonavir, the medications used in the experimental coronavirus treatments. Both belong to a class of drugs known as protease inhibitors.

Thai doctors administered the lopinavir-ritonavir combination along with influenza drug oseltamivir to a Chinese coronavirus patient in her 70s, according to a report this month by Thailand's Ministry of Public Health.

The woman had shown no improvement in her condition for 10 days after testing positive for the virus, but she recovered within 48 hours of receiving the treatment, according to the ministry.

When HIV reproduces, it forces host cells to create long chains of proteins that become material for new viruses. An enzyme called protease is used to trim these chains to the appropriate size.

Protease inhibitors block this enzyme, which "prevents the virus from replicating," said Shuzo Matsushita, a professor at Kumamoto University in Japan and a former head of the Japanese Society for AIDS Research.

The novel coronavirus reproduces through a similar mechanism, according to Junichiro Inoue, a cellular biology professor at the University of Tokyo. Like HIV, the virus invades cells and forces them to make proteins that are then cut into smaller pieces using protease.

That led many researchers to wonder if it might be vulnerable to protease inhibitors.

Japan's National Center for Global Health and Medicine said last week that it had treated a patient from Wuhan, where the virus is believed to have originated, with lopinavir and ritonavir. The patient had had some trouble breathing at times, but her condition stabilized after the treatment, and her fever went down five days after she was admitted to the facility.

This limited sample of cases cannot settle the question on its own. Experts say more testing is needed to tell whether antiretrovirals actually help coronavirus patients recover.

I know for a FACT of another sub-group that is/could be going around contaminating/infecting other people at least up to this point.- Airline workers. A complete idiot of a woman at my workplace has a husband who's a pilot (no idea the airline), had recently did a "China run" and now is sick with a "cold". Best part: THE ASSHOLE IS STILL FLYING AND HASN'T TOLD AUTHORITIES NOR GONE TO THE DOCTORS!!! WTF!! The woman said her husband is not the only one like this and other of her husband's colleagues are coming down with the "sniffles". AREN'T ALL AIRLINES ON TOP OF THIS SHIT? I mean I know many airlines have stopped flights to China, but did anyone stop to think their personnel might already be sick and infecting passengers?? It's too horrifying to contemplate. Now the brain-dead moron is finally concerned as she had to leave early on Friday because the kid's "come down with a cold". I'm not making any of this up. Thank god I work on the other side of the building if that even will make a difference at this point.

R29, are you in the US?

R30 with that hysterical screed, how could r29 be anywhere but the US?

What happens to that cruise ship after the quarantine? How do you disinfect a ship that size and with so many cases? There're also a ton of different materials, upholstery and hiding places for this virus and it must be very difficult to disinfect. Would you pay a shitload of money to spend your next vacation on that ship?

I think in the end it will all be a numbers game. Will the rest of the World be able to keep up in their medical response with what the actual rate of infection outside of China turns out to be. And the truth is it really is to early to tell- that plus certain governments and health authorities are keeping cards very close to their chest. Another unknown that worries me greatly in the U.S.: 1 )will DJT continue to handle this pandemic in the spectacularly uninformed, ill-prepared fashion he has handled everything else or will the U.S.'s Public Health Preparedness Arm save his ass ( and ours) 2) Will the Orange Turd use the Pandemic to steer events and manipulate political and civil structure in his favor if he feels that things are not going his way- a la martial law? I fear this almost more than the first.

R22, yes they do.

Well, r32, it just so happens the Queen Mary 2 is offering 40% discounts on their cruises.

The death toll is over 1,520, including four people outside mainland China.

That death ship is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. People will start jumping overboard and rioting, and every news camera in the world will be there to watch as Japanese soldiers start shooting. Japan is handling this VERY badly.

R29, I would make an anonymous call to relevant authorities.

Also make sure you don't touch any door handles or elevators in your office building. Virus can stay on surfaces for up to 9 days. Use hand sanitizer.

Good luck to you!

This is a serious illness, not only the old with medical conditions are dying...young, healthy people are dying as well.

That doctor who warned the world was only 34 years old!

cnn-US cruise ship passengers urged to disembark, return to US

US citizens aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship docked in Japan will undergo extensive screening and a 14 day quarantine period should they choose to disembark.

On Saturday, US passengers received an email from the State Department urging them to leave the ship and return to the United States. There are currently some 400 US citizens aboard the Diamond Princess.

The State Department will provide chartered flights for those who choose to leave. Passengers choosing to fly back aboard the charter will be screened before they leave the ship and monitored by medical personnel during their return to the US, according to a news release from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Once back in the country, passengers will undergo a 14 day quarantine period at either Travis Air Base in California or Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland in Texas. The passengers returning from Japan will be housed separately from those evacuated from China at the same bases.

More context: So far at least 24 Americans aboard the ship have tested positive for the novel coronavirus aboard the ship. Americans who have already tested positive for coronavirus, as well as those showing symptoms of the virus, will not be able to board the charter aircraft back to the United States, and will continue to receive treatment in Japan.

Here's what CUPE is advising their employees: Pretty Shocking and laughable if it wasn't such a serious virus.

Should I wear a mask on board an airplane?

It is very important to understand the different types of “masks” which exist. As mentioned in the first update (below), surgical masks are not designed to filter air that is breathed in – they only capture large droplets from the wearer.

When workers ask whether a tight-fitting surgical mask provides any protection, the answer often is that it’s “better than nothing”. However, many people get a false sense of security that is not warranted while wearing surgical masks.

Following the precautionary principle, CUPE recommends that flight attendants who have to work closely with symptomatic people on board an airplane should be fitted for, and provided with, at least an N95 half-face respirator that provides a proper seal to the wearer’s face. This would require at least some of every crew to be fit-tested. If symptomatic passengers refuse to wear a surgical mask, then flight attendants should also where a face shield to protect droplets from getting into their eyes

I have a job where people work in very close quarters at intermittent times, with all of us touching and using the same material, equipment and surfaces, etc. About 3 weeks ago one of the employees, an employee who's from China, went to Beijing to temporarily care for a relative. This Chinese national was able to get back into the US about a week ago, and according to another employee who was in contact with this person, was told to quarantine themselves in their home for two weeks.

I am dreading the day that this person returns to work, due to the nature of my job environment. I can't help feeling paranoid about this, but this is how this virus has been spreading to other countries. I think I'm going to take the entire next week off.

R42 if you die, I don't want your stuff.

R37 how is Japan handling this badly? They’re doing the same thing that the US would do. Plus Japanese health authorities apply the strictest precautions for staff dealing with those quarantined on all the cruise ships that are stuck in ports around the world. Don’t think there isn’t coordination between US and Japanese authorities on containment during the quarantine. That’s how public health operates on international level, particularly amongst friendly nations. Japan is not fucking China. It’s a highly advanced nation also one known for a culture that values cleanliness, it’s a national trait. Anyone here who’s been to Japan knows how the Japanese are extreme clean freaks and germaphobes. The whole nation is pissed at having to deal with another shitty Chinese import. Meanwhile Taiwan continues to troll China by still referring to the virus as Wuhan virus instead of the new, official name.

R32 The virus is said to survive on surfaces for about 9 days. They'll probably disinfect everything that can disinfected, but if they wait long enough there won't be any viruses left anyway.

Once again, we do not know how this is transmitted completely. one of the infected in Japan was wearing protective gear, mask and goggles. They are looking into how he got infected. maybe he didn't take it off properly.

Chinese healthcare is shit.

R45 thank you, one of the saner, non-hysterical posts. Viruses don’t survive on surfaces for generally speaking, greater than 9 days. Cool temperature and high ambient air humidity also enables survival, but most viruses die off within 5 days on surfaces. In our health system, we use sanicloth to clean medical equipments or instruments used for patients, and it pretty much kills everything. I’mspeaking as a mild clean freak myself (part Japanese), also first to admit that many of my providers (NPs and MDs) don’t clean their instruments properly or consistently. Sometimes it’s a matter of forgetting for many providers. Me, the first thing I do is to wipe down the chairs, computers, and desks I’d be using, Computer keyboards at any medical setting are probably the most disgusting surfaces because they’re non-porous and don’t get cleaned by housekeeping staff at all.

I sanitize my stethoscope with sanicloth in between patients, but I admit it’s mainly to placate my slightly germaphobic tendencies. When I was a bedside RN, I wore Dr. Marten boots with those sturdy rubber soles which are easily cleaned off with wipes. But even then, I’d used to store my hospital work boots in a plastic shoe container inside my car trunk, I’d change shoes before I drive home. Now that I see patients at clinic I’m still keeping work shoes separate from non-work shoes. You can actually buy sanicloth on Amazon, we use the green container not the purple one.

R46 the Japanese who was infected didn’t wear the proper eye shields, I heard that from NHK. There are many types of eye protectors, some are shields that partially protect from bodily fluids, while others offer more complete coverage.

Since some of my fellow colleagues (NPs and MDs) don’t sanitize or wash their hands or stethoscopes between patients, I recommend that you do the same thing as me when I’m the patient. Always politely ask if they’ve done so before they examine you.

cnn--First case of coronavirus involving Westerdam cruise ship confirmed, a US citizen

The first case of coronavirus involving the Westerdam cruise ship was confirmed by Malaysia on Saturday, after an 83-year-old US citizen tested positive, according to a report from state media Bernama.

Several Asian countries refused to let the Westerdam dock in their ports before being allowed to disembark in Cambodia on Friday. The cruise ship, which had a total of 1,455 guests and 802 crew onboard was not under quarantine, Holland America Line said last week.

All passengers and crew members onboard the cruise ship were allowed to return to their respective countries by the Cambodian government after they successfully passed through health screenings.

The US citizen and her husband, also American, were found to have symptoms as soon as they landed at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport from Cambodia, Bernama added. They were referred to the Sungai Buloh hospital for examination, which concluded that the woman tested positive while her husband, age 85, tested negative.

The husband is still undergoing treatment and observation at the hospital for his symptoms.

The total tally of confirmed cases in Malaysia is now up to 22, according to a report from state media Bernama.

CNN has reached out to the State Department for a comment.

NHK is reporting that Japan will begin testing PreP against coronavirus.

There are 25 studies listed as recruiting or not yet recruiting yet on clinicaltrials.gov. Not all are trials; some are observational. Nevertheless it is good to see the wheels turning for the start of treatment testing.

The use of AIDS-related medication to fight this virus makes me wonder how more advanced we'd be if the US government had invested more funds into HIV research starting in the 80s. If this turns into a real pandemic, it's another thing we can blame on Ronald Reagan and the Republican agenda.

FINALLY something we can hate Republicans for.

Something that no one has brought up that I am truly concerned about and I wonder if it will come bite Trump in the ass, is the shitty state of American healthcare viz a viz insurance etc. We KNOW millions of Americans don't have insurance, and even with the threat if Corina virus how many people want to pay out of pocket to go see a doctor for something like a cold? Ex: I have this old friend from college on Social Media who's semi obnoxious. Her husband is supposedly doing great in Real Estate according to what she's always going on about but their insurance I happen to know sucks. She complains all the time that each one of them has a TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR DEDUCTIBLE just to walk in the door of the primary care provider, so she and the kids are always toughing out whatever latest plague they have brought home from school. How many American are in this position exactly? Not to mention, if huge swaths of the population are supposed to be affected by this, need some really ( I'm betting) fancy-ass expensive anti-virals or worse time spent on a vent in the ICU, there's a lot of folks who simply can't afford that. I just think a year from now, depending how this virus really hits us, American society is going to be really impacted in ways we haven't even begun to think about yet.

Geneticist back. I have been posting the occasional video, but apparently no one watches those, because they have addressed many of the issues posted here by other DLers. . So I'll try not to get too wordy and will summarize new, or I guess, newly gathered data.

First of all, what we do know about this virus, is that oddly, Asians seem to die of this more than non-Asians do. People were making all kinds of racist speculations based on this observation, but we now have an understanding of what might be going on (see below). Also, 68% of the deaths have been male, though of all adult age groups. Children seem to get sick far more rarely than adults do. People seem to die suddenly, on the street; they can also die slower more agonizing deaths of multiple organ system failure, but especially pneumonia.

We now know the receptor for the virus is the ACE2 molecule, the Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2, that is on the surface of many different cells. Interestingly, smoking greatly elevates the expression of ACE2.

About 10 years ago, people developed a vaccine against another corona virus, the SARS virus. They tested it in mice, and discovered that yes, they were anti-viral antibodies in the titres of these mice, but far from being immune, when these mice were challenged with a new exposure to SARS virus, their systems went through a catastrophic immunopathology, stimulated by something called a "cytokine storm". This hyperactivated signaling cascade caused a break down of all of the tissues and organ systems. Thus, immunization, as noted by one poster above, may not be possible with this virus, at least as attempted so far. It is not clear what causes the cytokine storm, nor whether there are proteins of the virus that could initiate an immune response that would circumvent the cytokine storm. That research is ongoing.

Part 2:

So the speculation currently, is that the initial infection with coronavirus is not severe and is not life-threatening. That you can recover from that infection relatively easily. However, if you are re-infected, you undergo a highly amplified immune response that results in organ system failure and you will likely die.

So back to ACE2. ACE2 is the receptor for coronavirus, and the tissues expressing it most highly are often the sites of most severe pathology. It is normally expressed in the endothelial cells lining every part of the vasculature (arteries, veins, capillaries, heart), the alveolar pneumocytes in the lung, the parenchymal tissues of the kidney, the muscle cells of the heart and several specific nuclei of the brain. The sudden fall-over-like-a-tree trunk deaths were initially speculated as being due to encephalitis, and that is still possibly the case, but it is also possible that the cytokine cascade causes sudden heart stoppage. Those patients may die suddenly due to sudden cardiac arrest.

Interestingly, the expression through development and in adulthood, is that in children, ACE2 is only expressed strongly in the kidney. In other tissues, it is not highly expressed. In adulthood, it is expressed, highly in all of these other tissues, and this may explain why children are not as likely to die of this infection. I haven't seen any papers yet on kidneys in children with coronavirus infections. It would be interesting to see if kids who have had second infections undergo kidney failure.

Now back to the smoking. So we know that the areas of the world with the highest levels of smoking per capita are of course in Asia, but also: Russia, eastern Europe, ALL countries in Africa, and Brazil. Sadly, we have no information yet about infections in Africa or South America. If this model is correct ---- that ACE2 expression determines susceptibility to lethal infections ---- I would expect the lethality there is, or shortly will be, higher than in the rest of the world (all other things being equal, which they are not).

ACE inhibitors are blood pressure drugs. They have been around forever. Unfortunately, they do not cross-react with ACE2, so that hoping for a relatively harmless competitive inhibition of ACE2 with ACE inhibitors is not possible. Also, Coronavirus just needs to get in one time. THEN it can use the cell's machinery to self-amplify, and once again, there is infection. Not sure that ANY inhibitor would be 100%. And with a virus, that would mean you could delay it but not eliminate it.

Coronavirus does make a protease to cleave the structural proteins after they are synthesized as a single protein. So protease inhibitors might be effective and apparently they have been used to some extent but they don't seem effective, or I guess effective ENOUGH, to achieve cure. And the real issue is preventing the first infection (as with a vaccine) so as to avoid sensitizing to a second infection and the vaccine itself might do that.

As of a week ago, I think, there were 58 patients in Singapore, and 9 had died (Which is 15% lethality ----- WAAAAY higher than the less than 2% reported by the CCP. Now it is likely that the lethality associated with the second infection may be close to 60% or actually, even higher.

ElderLez, I am sorry, I did NOT see your paper, and will go back and look for it and will read the acknowledgements.

And given the strong reaction here to Bannon, kind of glad I haven't watched him.

Sorry for typos and length of post.

R58 thank you for your highly informative two posts

Thank you for that R59.

Just to re-emphasize: SMOKING greatly increases the expression of ACE2. So one of the things preppers would be well advised to do is to knock it off with the nicotine.

Someone get R58 and R59 a room.

I haven't read the other threads on this and it might have already been discussed, but is there an incubation period?

R44, I'm glad to hear that about Japan because I have a trip scheduled for next month, and I've been nervous about the number of cases being reported there. Granted, most of them are from that cruise ship, but still. Tokyo is a very densely populated city, which makes it easier for illnesses to spread.

I'm still considering whether I should cancel my trip. I just don't know. I have coworkers who've been to Japan recently, and they said they weren't worried at all given how clean Japan is.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from any airline workers (ground, air, admin) on this virus. It's astonishing given they are the forefront of public service delivery and seeing how airlines are reacting. There was one interesting post from someone who knows someone who works for airline in London but that was about it.

I would cancel the trip to Japan.

I didn't start to be concerned about this until recently. I tend to not be a conspiracy theorist, but the Chinese's response and large-scale quarantines make me think the worst. I'm due to travel to London in a few weeks, and wonder if that is a bad idea. I have compromised lungs, and could easily get pneumonia. Or am I just being foolish? Million of people travel, and, still, a fairly small part of the population gets infected. But...still. It does give one pause.

I find this very sad. It’s like a freight train headed for a damsel in distress. We make light of it, but it’s going to be awful. And there’s really nothing the average person can do about it. I have 6 siblings. It seems that the odds are, one of us will die from this. I hope there isn’t also neurological damage to those who otherwise recover.

R67, you’re deeply unhinged.

Get a fucking grip.

MARY!

If this was supposed to be "weaponized", who was it meant to attack - middle aged male smokers in Asia? Seems like an odd target for a designed weapon.

That is a tough call, r66 (OP Brian). Personally, I probably would go as I think there is still a window where the majority can travel somewhat "safely". After Spring, all bets are off.

Aren’t most of the protesters in Hong Kong male?

Don’t they smoke a lot in Hong Kong?

[quote] Trump will take advantage of the cold, the people who are too sick to protest, and the others who are afraid of public gatherings, to declare Marshall Law

Oh dear.

[quote] What is the WHO?

I’d much rather know: who is the WHAT?

So... if you have an underlying idiopathic immune disorder like ITP, does that mean Coronavirus would trigger the same type of immune response, just more widespread than the immune system killing platelets?

I really don't think it was designed to be a weapon. I just don't see the goal for a virus weapon like this. I know there are stupid villains in the world but I can't imagine the thinking that would lead to this.

But I DO think it was edited. I think coronaviruses have been around a long time. If it IS possible for it to jump species, it has probably been transmitted from bats in that area before. And never resulted in anything like this.

BUT. If they were idiotic enough in that lab to put HIV sequences in the coronavirus (let's just say as a proof of concept ----- to show they could do it) and then sloppy enough to let it slip out...…. that could explain this mess. This whole thing just screams big giant fuck-up.

But there is no point to that now. If this ever gets conquered, and eliminated, then we can investigate how it happened and take measures to see that it doesn't happen again. But we have bigger fish to fry right now.

R74, I don't know. I don't know anything about ITP. Do you have it?

----R58

This is the kind of thing that could end the Chinese regime:

A widespread serious contagious disease that the government has mishandled and not been honest about

Stupid, punitive and even cruel actions that are ineffective, like welding people into their apartments; or other such isolation. Starvation leads to civil unrest.

Economic collapse by the cessation of commerce.

Plus latent interest in democracy.

Yesterday I read that in the rural areas, local government officials are putting bounties on the heads of people who are likely to have the virus or to get it. $300 is offered for people who have recently been to Hubei province. $80 for anyone with a fever.

THIS is why I don't think they will ever have democracy. The Chinese people do not have enough self-confidence, or empathy, or faith in each other to live in a democracy.

Not saying our democracy is doing all that well, but I think any of our local government officials who put bounties on the heads of their citizens would grow afraid of their constituents.

I got curious about whether or Not China has a Constitution. They do. Attaching it here.

R58, yes, my ITP is in remission now. But the description of the cytokine storm kind of reminded me of the ITP - for unknown reasons, your immune system overreacts and starts killing your platelets.

If you think these peasants will ever govern themselves democratically, you’re ‘avin a laugh.

They killed off the intellectuals, and are left with the dregs.

[quote]Goodbye sweet Darfur Orphan

Can I have your grubs?

The 5000 or so on the ship should have been transported to an isolated, new facility in a desert or similar, where everybody could be quarantined from everybody else. IIRC, the passengers who aren’t sick or who recovered should be ready for release soon. Or are they overdue?

As it is, ship cabins simply are not effective quarantine units. The disease is going to run through the passengers until all have gotten sick or proved to be immune. Perhaps it’s a confidential study. It certainly would be important to hear the percent with natural immunity; percent who get sick; and percent who die.

Only the old and those with compromised lung capacity or immune systems have died. If you could survive a chest infection, you'll survive this.

Fist of all, R80, do you honestly think intellectuals are a genetic class? As are the "dregs"?

I'd remind you of our college entrance exam scandal. Our elites are paying off admission officials to get their precious darlings into the top tier institutions. I tend to think of THEM as dregs (after all, they aren't smart enough to get in on their own), but their futures are assured. They go to Harvard, they make connections, their lives are soft and easy. And they continue to reproduce, and repopulate the intellectual class.

Unless there is widespread neural damage, any population is as "gifted" as any other, and any population is as burdened by "the dregs", (defined by any measure you'd care to use) as any other.

We here at DL are burdened by a small but vocal group of Hitler-Youth-like fascists, but bravely, we soldier on.

R83 The 34 old chinese doctor died. They didn't mention any preexisting health issue.

R84 = fraucunt

You’re an idiot.

Spoken like a true believer R86.

R82, Just where in Japan would be this high remote desert? Japan has a population density of 334 people per square mile.

[quote] declare Marshall Law

Low prices on the latest fashions — for the entire family!

R88, I have no idea, but I imagine they must have remote, unpopulated areas. Perhaps islands? Their population density is skewed due to city population.

Japan’s desert. Not that it necessarily is the best place for a quarantine colony, but the point is made that there is room to isolate these people from each other. Their army could have built 5000 simple cabins by now.

hi R58/Geneticist here’s one. It is really just about the acknowledgment section.

[quote] I think coronaviruses have been around a long time.

you don’t say!

Baric - Lipsitch cat fight fwiw.

16 square miles surrounded by heavy forests and visited by 2 million people annually doesn't make for a great isolation ward.

An island might be a possibility, but this is asking Japan to set up and maintain a whole bunch of infrastructure.

Japan's goal is not to keep people on the ship from getting sick, but keeping them from getting everyone in Japan sick.

But it sounds like it's enough of a mess that countries like the U.S. are about to pick up their citizens and quarantine on land.

CNN--Death toll from virus rises to 1,666 globally

cnn-Demand for robots among Chinese retailers is rising amid the coronavirus outbreak

Delivery robots are in high demand among retailers after many employees have not been able to return to work due to the novel coronavirus outbreak, according to Chinese state broadcaster CCTV.

"Orders are now about six times higher than they used to be. Our engineers have been working remotely, and we hope to start production next week and solve the current supply and demand problem," said Liu Zhiyong, the CEO of ZhenRobotics.

Robots are becoming an alternative for retailers as shops are shuttered, public facilities are closed and few people are wandering on the streets.

ElderLez, that is incredible!

ElderLez, now I have to read that whole document (The catfight)!!!!

The virus is making people sterile. Which might be a good thing.

To the poster who typed "Marshall" law instead of "Martial" law - it's a rather common mistake until you've been corrected for it in a sensitive way. Ignore the DL drama queens who so readily pounce on another's spelling/grammar mistakes for reasons best known to them. No biggie, pal - now you know. Have a nice Sunday.

The whole thing is interesting, but for the cat fight part you can just search the text for Baric

My paraphrase:

RB - I ain’t done nuffin with nuffin.

ML: RB was doing GOF after the pause wtf.

(Me in 2020, the pause didn’t apply to Thousand Talent funding, I wonder if....., shiza!)

Apologies to posters who don’t appreciate my admittedly lame sense of humor.

Re: Marshall Law

If you feel that you must correct this, you haven't been on DL for very long.

China's government is falling down on their repressive rep if they don't close down those wildlife markets permanently. Didn't SARS, MERS, H1N1 and bird flu originate from China?

I admit, I am totally speculating and could be totally wrong about this Elderlez, but do you think there is a connection between this GOF work and the CRISPR twins? I mean the HIV link is fascinating to me. Is there an over-arching plan here?

They broke the world's rules and went renegade and made human CRISPR mutants using HIV sequences in their proof of concept study! Well HIV binding site sequences. ButI mean, WTF? They engineered the twins to not be susceptible to HIV by altering the CD4 binding sites.

Now there is this virus outbreak, and once again there is the implication of HIV sequences used in their putative proof of concept study. The Indian group suggested they inserted specific binding site sequences into the corona virus spike proteins but I don't think anyone has suggested this virus binds to CD4. And let's be honest, if the virus was edited for use as a biological weapon, it makes no sense to make transgenic humans NOW, presumably to protect China from HIV and HIV-related epidemics in the future.

But the common theme of HIV is hard to dismiss as coincidence. I mean if you were going to do Proof of concept CRISPR humans, wouldn't you do it with something utterly innocuous and easy to see? A dominant visible marker?

I just can't imagine what the plan is/was, if such a plan ever existed. Is it just a coincidence?

[quote]The virus is making people sterile. Which might be a good thing.

"Children of Men" was a prophecy!

AIRBORNE SUPER AIDS

I’m really thrilled that there are a couple of extremely well educated researchers, physicians and nurses on these threads. Even the most skeptical often offer insight.

10 days ago, at a lunch, I mentioned to a doctor that I was becoming concerned with the rapid spread and apparent mortality of this virus. He was rather dismissive.

He called me today and we talked for 30 minutes, with him asking me questions about certain aspects, specifically macroeconomic impacts and supply chain disruptions. He is very worried for his patients since many of them take generics, and most of the materials have deep supply chain connections to China. Even precursors and ingredients are mostly dependent on China. Shifting manufacturing of many of these drugs to other countries will take longer than the current three month stock we have.

He’s trying to find someone to create quarantine zones in his office, but that’s a specialized skill. Isolation glass and disinfectants will probably be the best he can do at this time. He is also considering only doing home visits for the most critically ill. I could tell that he had a dozen possible ideas and was trying to nail something down fast.

It was not the least bit gratifying, either. I just felt sorry for him. He’s a very caring doctor, and he will put himself in harms way.

r108 = kookoo

Is this a frau thread?

R110 Did you mis the part where it is mostly men who are dying?

It's a thread which has some good information and some conspiracy theorists and some sky-is-falling types all mixed together.

Most of China's not under quarantine. Shipping lanes are still open.

No, R110. It's not.

The Westerdam ship that was allowed to dock in Cambodia? It has had its first diagnosed case of Coronavirus in the passengers allowed off the ship. Surprising because the ship has had100% negative test results for the last two weeks while it was looking for a place to go. Meanwhile, the number of cases increasing so dramatically in China is not changing merely because the reporting criteria have changed, but because the testing protocol has sped up access to results.

The paranoid secrecy, corruption and ineptness of the CCP just makes all of this worse. You just cannot take anything official seriously. Although I DID enjoy the fact that the CCP is claiming the outbreak is the work of the CIA, who, they say, did this evil thing in a desperate attempt to make China look bad. I am enjoying that, because the people at the CIA have got to know, their credibility is no better than that of the Chinese Communist Party.

[quote]If you feel that you must correct this, you haven't been on DL for very long.

I corrected it and I've been on DL since 2004. Is that long enough?

R112

Most of the ports and China are operating at less than 10% capacity. Where are you getting your flawed information?

R109

Not everyone is retarded and sticks their head in the sand when significant tail risks suddenly appear likely. Intelligent people prepare for unknown unknowns. You will probably be one of the first people to die because you refuse to listen to reasonable discussion or logical precautions.

Here you go R115. I didn't say there'd been no effect, but trade is still ongoing and the West isn't really feeling the effects yet.

Shipping companies are paying money to leave port. They have no chance of making a profit with the few good they transport.

You do not find that situation unless there is massive disruption in supply chain transmission.

Forbes does a fantastic job of destroying your bullshit. Do you really believe that a country that has been at a virtual standstill for nearly a month is loading container after container of goods destined for the United States? If so, you are fucking retarded.

Supply chain is 6 moths. So if this does become a bigger deal than regular flu you won't feel it until the summer.

Right now the Coronavirus has killed less people than the flu does every year. I'm not trying to be flippant about that comment. There is an anomaly about this virus that no one is taking seriously. I'm old enough to remember when aids started taking the lives of our gay people. I knew one of the first people infected with aids that was a performer in Florida. This Coronavirus is something that all of us should be concerned about.

R120, this brings us back to the first page in this thread.

In the US, the CDC says 30 million people per year are infected with the flu. In the US,10,000 people die of complications related to the flu. That is a relative mortality rate of 10,000/30,000,000 = 0.03%.

The corona virus has, so far, infected 60,000 people and killed 1670. That is a relative mortality rate of 2.8%, or 100X times more lethal than the flu. Given that the CCP has only been keeping track of/reporting these statistics for the last 2 months, we can expect a minimum of10,000 people dead in one year (if rate of infection does not increase). If the number of infections DOES continue to increase, we can expect the relative mortality rates to increase as well. Given also, that we cannot believe the CCP at all, I suspect this virus has infected way way more than 60,000 and killed way more than 1670. It is still very new. I can't even imagine where we are going to be in two more months.

CNN-US cruise ship passenger: "I finally feel like I can exhale"

One passenger on board the Diamond Princess said she was relieved that "somebody is coming for us," after the US announced plans to fly American passengers home Sunday. The cruise ship is nearing the end of its two-week quarantine at the Japanese port of Yokohama and authorities say all passengers will disembark sometime next week.

Some Americans will leave early, with a flight for those who have not tested positive for the coronavirus or shown symptoms expected to leave Sunday evening Japan time. Once the passengers arrive in the US, they will be placed in another 14-day quarantine at one of two military bases in California and Texas.

""I finally feel like I can exhale," Gay Courter told CNN. "Somebody is coming for us.""

She said she was happy to enter a new quarantine in California, though some other passengers were "very upset" about the prospect.

"I do not want to be a public health menace," Courter said. "I think a week or so on a military base would be interesting."

She was relieved to be out of the "failed quarantine" run by the Japanese authorities. The number of cases on the ship has risen considerably since it first docked in Yokohama.

"The hardest part of the ordeal has been feeling completely impotent under the rule of the Japanese government," Courter said. "And feeling that the American government was not able to break through their very hard stance."

Courter and her husband have been trapped inside their cabin for almost two weeks.

"It is fascinating to me how adaptable people are," she said. "We have routines, we have laundry in the sink. Going on the balcony (to call) our children. Lots of movies on television. We do not have a lot of responsibilities."

The biggest concern was the rising number of cases on board the ship.

"It became clear that we are in danger, we're not sure how, we don't know if it's air-conditioning or plumbing (that is spreading the virus)," she said. "We just don't know the vector ... I want to go somewhere where I feel safe and that is under American jurisdiction."

[quote]In the US, the CDC says 30 million people per year are infected with the flu. In the US,10,000 people die of complications related to the flu.

Estimated flu deaths in the United States according to the CDC:

2010-2011 — 37k

2011-2012 — 12k

2012-2013 — 43k

2013-2014 — 38k

2014-2015 — 51k

2015-2016 — 23k

2016-2017 — 38k

2017-2018 — 61k

2018-2019 — 34k

R118, nothing in your link contradicts what I said earlier. The lanes are open. R119 is right. It's going to take a while before we feel the effects of this at the brick-and-mortar level in the west.

I know this gets in the way of the whole global economic catastrophe scenario, but we're not there yet.

I'm concerned about those who got off in Cambodia. They all flew home! I think they are fucking infected. Hundreds of them are Americans. Just you wait...it's coming home! They are not going to be quarantined at a military base, like the other cruise ship. There is a reason why no country wanted this ship!

I'm hoping most of these Americans are old fucks who live in Florida or Arizona or deplorable states.

CNN---Coronavirus has triggered the world's biggest work-from-home experiment

In offices across Asia, desks are empty and the phones are quiet, as the region grapples with a deadly virus.

In major hubs like Hong Kong and Singapore, shops are shuttered, public facilities are closed, and there are few people wandering the usually-bustling financial districts.

Instead, millions of people are holed up in their apartments, in what may be the world's biggest work-from-home experiment.

Around 60 million people in China were put under full or partial lockdown in January as the government tried to contain the virus. Restrictions have been implemented in many other places too -- but there is also pressure for companies to get back to work, with Chinese President Xi Jinping warning this week that the country needed to stabilize its economy.

In an attempt to limit social contact to slow the spread of the virus, known officially as Covid-19, millions of employees in China and other affected areas are currently working from home.

For some employees, like teachers who have conducted classes digitally for weeks, working from home can be a nightmare.

But in other sectors, this unexpected experiment has been so well received that employers are considering adopting it as a more permanent measure. For those who advocate more flexible working options, the past few weeks mark a possible step toward widespread -- and long-awaited -- reform.

CNN--Confirmed infections on Diamond Princess keep climbing, as 70 more coronavirus cases revealed

Another 70 people on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship, docked in Yokohama, have tested positive for novel Coronavirus, the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour, and Welfare has announced.

That brings the total number of cases from the ship to 356, and the total in Japan to 407.

Americans on board the ship had until Saturday 8 p.m. ET to tell the US Embassy whether they wanted to leave as part of a voluntary evacuation expected Sunday evening Japan time.

Anyone who remains on board, will begin to be tested for the virus on February 18, and get their results in three days. Staggered disembarkations are due to begin on February 21.

R58 Where is a link to verify that 9 people have died in Singapore? Because so far only four people outside of China have died from the virus. One each in Frances, Japan, Hong Kong, the Philippines. If I'm not mistaken all three of those cases they were Chinese nationals who had traveled from Wuhan. I'm not sure about the 80 year old woman from Japan though.

CNN--Xi Jinping says he knew about the virus outbreak in early January

Chinese President Xi Jinping knew about the coronavirus outbreak in early January, he said in a speech this month.

According to a transcript of the speech made on February 3, and published in the Communist Party journal Qiushi on Saturday, Xi "issued requirements for the prevention and control of the new coronavirus" on January 7.

"On January 20, I specifically issued instructions on the epidemic prevention and control work, stating that we must attach great importance to the epidemic, do our best in prevent and control work, and require Party committees, governments and relevant departments at all levels to put people’s safety and health first and take effective measures, resolutely contain the epidemic," he added.

"On January 22, considering the rapid spread of the epidemic and the severe challenges faced by prevention and control work, I explicitly requested Hubei province to implement comprehensive and strict control over the outflow of people."

Previously, Xi was believed to only have learned about the extent and danger of the outbreak in late January, when he publicly intervened to order "all out efforts" to tackle its spread.

"I have, at all times, monitored the spread of the epidemic and the progress in prevention and control work , and continue to give oral orders and instructions," Xi said.

While the speech underlines that Xi has been personally directing the response to the outbreak -- something that has been repeatedly emphasized in state media -- the revelation that he knew about the virus when Wuhan officials were publicly downplaying its danger, exposes him to the risk of being blamed, along with them, for failing to properly handle the outbreak in its early weeks.

An economist here in Australia said another 2 weeks of current trade conditions with China will put our own econmy in a dire position.

We ger enormous amounts of good from China and the stores here don't really keep warehouses full of goods. The normal course of affairs is one shipload of goods after another in a continuous stream. Cars, household appliances, clothes, electronics...in reality of course we don't need all that new stuff. It will take some time to use up what we have. But the real problem here is tourism and education and for that we rely on China to keep us afloat.

Some of us still remember the nascent GRID hysteria (at least for some of us) that eventually permeated every aspect of our lives, and all of the loved ones we lost . . . at that time I believed it was a bioweapon directed at us, and I believe that this is also a bioweapon either dropped purposely or accidently; it really doesn't matter as much as protecting one's self and loved ones as efficiently and early as possible. In all of the noise/chatter I'm once more hearing "T4 cells", "Cytokine storm"; it's like a nightmare we thought was dead and buried and now here's a new, improved version!

Hal Turner (a conspiracy website) claims that texts between a CDC biggie & MD state that there are over 1,000 cases in the US at the moment--whether or not it's true, I do think that the real scope is being suppressed, and is a lot more severe than is being communicated generally.

Here's hoping that it's all a huge "nothingburger", but scenes from World War Z are starting to play very insistently in my consciousness . . .

It is not true that only old people with medical issues are dying...many younger people are dying as well.

R130 here with a correction; I don't know the shipping situation with China and Australia but we have closed our borders to at least 100,000 Chinese students and potentially millions of tourists. So far only 15 confirmed cases and no deaths.

9 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, including 6 linked to Grace Assembly of God cluster

SINGAPORE: Singapore reported nine more confirmed cases of COVID-19 on Friday (Feb 14), the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in a daily update.

Of them, six are linked to a cluster from the Grace Assembly of God church, director of medical services at MOH Kenneth Mak said at a press conference.

This brings the total number of novel coronavirus cases in Singapore to 67, with six patients in critical condition.

Two more patients, case 30 and 45, have been discharged from hospital as of Friday, meaning 17 people have now fully recovered from the disease.

R121 I was giving the CCP the benefit of the doubt over the last couple of weeks but they have proven over the last few days that they can't be trusted and they didn't learn a fucking thing from SARS.

Seriously folks this isn't getting any better. I'd start stocking up on things that you can't do without for an extended period of time like medicines, food (canned mainly), pet food if you have any pets, toilet paper, etc. If they do manage to contain the virus you will not out of pocked because you won't have to buy any of that stuff for along time. Most medicines, canned food & pet food have every long 'use by' dates.

I was optimistic at a couple of weeks ago that the virus could be contained but I really don't think that will happen because medical experts still know so little about it. The time to really hit the panic button is when it starts cropping up in other countries as they loose the capacity to contain it.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what is happening on the cruise ship docked in Japan because they are nothing more than incubators for all kinds of diseases. It's what happens outside of China in a normal environment that will tell the world more.

Also, interesting that scientist are linking the possibility of smoking and who the virus progresses in cases. I myself mentioned it as a possibility in an earlier thread - it's just common sense.

Also the news that people may gave re-infected is probably the most frightening. Makes everyone on the planet vulnerable all the time. I also suspect that the medical staff that have died in Wuhan (and I bet it is way for than the 6 that the CCP are stating) also got infected repeatedly, along with exiting patients in the hospitals in there for other reasons.

I want to hear more about the higher mortality (60% WTF??!!) if one is re-infected with the virus (after recovering from first exposure). The "Cytokine Storm" that is so lethal to young people. With the virulence of this bug (and it's exponential spread) how on earth are we supposed to avoid a second infection?

It seems to me that the real horror of this plague is yet to come and is something none of the authorities has begun to appreciate. This is apocalyptic.

I'm clutching my rosary beads ........ again.

And then there's this little gem from Reddit--

Batten down the fucking hatches!

Maybe it really is a version of World War Z . . .

Or someone testing the limits of his creative writing class . . .

I predict the virus will hit this beloved country of ours in Winter 2020.

You do realize winter is shortly ending R139?

“... Coronavirus has killed FEWER people...”

Even if your facts are correct, bad grammar makes you unreliable.

R124

R119 is pointing at the most extended and redundant supply chains.

Most of those redundancies have been eliminated to “cut costs”.

1) Well the real test will be the 2020 Summer Olympics in Japan - will it be moved? Cancelled?

2) The amount of closed, idle factories is going to become a HUGE problem very soon....remember creepy Wilber Ross essentially saying the USA can benefit if Chinese factory workers get sick and dies.

3) In the event of martial law, the bright side is no more Trump rallies - in regard to the disease's transmission, you just know that fat fuck is concerned strictly about himself.

4) James Woods has had some scary, realistic-looking videos from Chinese cell phones. Gunfire, armed men in hazmat suits, screams, plus rumors of increased sulfur allegedly resulting from mass burnings of bodies.

R138 You'll be glad to know it's fiction. R/Nosleep is specifically for horror writing.

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha Law!

Geneticist - you mention that ACE inhibitors will not help as they do not block ACE2. There are potent, small molecule inhibitors of ACE2 known. One, MLN4760, is very potent and similar in size and mode-of-action to the ACE inhibitors in that it binds to the active-site zinc atom. In fact, the xray structure ACE2 bound to MLN4760 was published back in 2004. Your caution that such an inhibitor may not be very effective as just one coronavirus needs to bind to hijack the cell machinery is valid. But do you think that having such a drug available would have any benefit? Does the virus bind at the ACE2 active site? I can imagine high-doses of drug given over a short period of time to people who may be susceptible. Of course, safety studies will have to be done but the HIV work by drug companies/HIV activists showed that it could be done in an accelerated fashion. Just wondering...

Honestly, the Reddit story in R138 sounds more believable than what we've been seeing in the news. I still find it hard to understand why China would lock down cities filled with millions of people over a variation of the flu virus. The story would also explain why they've been burning bodies -- hiding evidence?

The Reedit Story is nothing more than someone with an overactive imagination.

China are closing down cities because the flu is particular virulent. A 2 to 3% mortality rate posses a huge global issue when to consider the the ordinary flu has a yearly death rate below 1% and the 1918 Spanish full has a mortality rate of somewhere between 3 to 6%. That 2 to 3% is closer to the Spanish flu than it is to the seasonal flu.

Also, keep in mind people are dying quickly - in many cases they are taking weeks to die. Furthermore, the longterm affects of this virus on people who recover or had it mildly are unknown and they make be able to infected again this time with lethal results.

Also, the virus is just not killing off old sick people, or just people who smoke, its killing young people in their 30s & 40s who are otherwise healthy. Still so much to be learned about it. Scientists have barely scratched the surface of their knowledge into it.

I don’t think it is related R105.

[quote]Honestly, the Reddit story in [R138] sounds more believable than what we've been seeing in the news.

It sounds more believable to you because you want to believe it.

NYT: To stop the spread of the coronavirus much of China has effectively shut down. What’s not been fully appreciated is how extensive the closures are. By our calculations 760 million are living under some kind of residential lockdown.

More than 26 million Americans have gotten sick with the (plain old) flu so far this season, leading to an estimated 14,000 deaths and 250,000 hospital stays, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

A second wave of the illness is hitting the U.S this month, and the two strains of the flu making the rounds this year have been especially hard on children, according to the Associated Press. There have been 92 flu-related deaths reported in children - which is a higher total at this point in the flu season than any in the past decade.

That reddit post is Illuminati conspiracy theory fiction. It lost me at “deep state.” Ridiculous. Someone has way too much time on their hands.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

That article is mind-blowing, R155. It appears to be saying that the Chinese government has tacitly claimed responsibility for the (accidental) release of this pathogen.

[quote]A new bombshell paper from the [bold]Beijing-sponsored[/bold] South China University of Technology says that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control (WHCDC) could have spawned the contagion in Hubei province.

That is unprecedented for such a secretive bureaucracy. What they haven't admitted is whether the WHCDC had been re-engineering the virus as part of weapons research.

I think the reddit post was fake as well.

CNN--A British man quarantined on board the Diamond Princess has said British nationals on board the cruise liner feel “forgotten,” as other countries start to evacuate their citizens from the ship.

Outside China, the largest outbreak of novel coronavirus is on board the Diamond Princess, a cruise ship quarantined at Yokohama, a port south of Tokyo. Thousands of passengers have been under strict controls on board for almost two weeks now, and on Sunday, a US government chartered flight is expected to evacuate nearly 400 Americans from the ship back to the United States where they will be placed in another 14-day quarantine.

On Saturday, Canada also announced plans to charter a plane to evacuate its citizens from the Diamond Princess.

"Passengers are getting despondent. Americans are going to be leaving the ship very soon,” passenger David Abel said in a Facebook live broadcast on Sunday.

“Every country except the UK has become involved, and that is really wonderful for the people on board the ship. Every country except for the United Kingdom,” he said. “It feels that we have been forgotten. That you don’t really care about us, and that you’re actually not wanting us to come home,” he said, calling on the UK government to evacuate British nationals aboard the ship. "

The Reddit story is definitely fiction because the author can write his "Rs".

R155 Oh my God. I can't believe they're admitting it came from the research institute.

I was entertaining the idea ever since I first read about it, but I assumed it would never be acknowledged publicly and we'd be reading about exotic wild animals and "the mysterious origins of Covid-19" for decades. This is major.

I am concerned about the The Westerdam, there were 20 sick people who supposedly tested negative for the virus. Now one of them is sick with the virus. They all flew home from combodia. There are over 600 americans on that fucking ship!

The Reddit post is hilarious. I wouldn't be surprised if the IP address turns out to be that of Kanye. Time to up his meds again I guess.

My thoughts exactly,, R161. If the officials have allowed this paper to be released, could it perhaps be because Xi Jinping has been under pressure in the global media lately? The story was that he knew about the severity of the virus in early January but sat on his hands until a few weeks later.

Another death outside of China. A man in his 60s died in Taiwan. He also had diabetes and hepatitis B, the health minister noted.

Sorry, I meant R160 (not 161) in my post at R163.

[quote]Oh my God. I can't believe they're admitting it came from the research institute.

Don't get excited until there's a confirmation of this story from a few other media outlet. The Daily Mail is anything but a reliable source.

daily mail is reporting on the report released...the report doesn't say it came from there 100%, merely said it's possible, since they kept 650 bats there and on occasions, bats had bled and urinated on humans, ticks were found on human as well...

R167, for the Chinese government to even allow anyone to even entertain the idea they may have been responsible is simply huge, imo..

Fears mount over new coronavirus case in Westerdam cruise ship thought to be infection free

Revelations that an octogenarian American passenger on a cruise ship has contracted the coronavirus after passengers disembarked has raised fears that other potential carriers of the virus are at large. In China, meanwhile, the rate of growth for new cases appears to be slowing.

Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Wan Azizah Wan Ismail told reporters Sunday that an 83-year old American passenger on the cruise liner tested positive for the coronavirus twice — once on Friday and once on Saturday — after she landed in Kuala Lumpur despite being screened earlier by Cambodian health officials.

“The results were the same. That is positive for the wife and negative for her husband,” Wan Azizah told reporters at a news conference, adding that Malaysia would now bar entry for all passengers from the cruise ship, according to Reuters.

The unexpected finding upends a basic assumption by several governments, including the United States, that the ship was virus-free and that passengers could be greeted at proximity without protective gear and allowed to travel.

The American woman, whose identity has not been disclosed, was among hundreds of relieved passengers who were let off the Westerdam on Friday and welcomed and embraced by Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, who has downplayed the epidemic’s threat and described the decision to bring them onshore as an act of humanitarian goodwill.

The U.S. ambassador, W. Patrick Murphy, also brought his family onboard the cruise ship and posed for pictures on Saturday with American passengers. Murphy and other passengers did not appear to be wearing a mask in photos shared on the embassy’s Twitter account.

Disembarkation, which was set to continue over the weekend, was halted Sunday, according to Cambodian journalists at the scene.

On Saturday night, charter flights that were originally scheduled to take Westerdam passengers to Kuala Lumpur were canceled by Malaysian authorities.

Chinese officials said Sunday they believed that measures taken across the country to control the epidemic were paying off. Several cities in the central region have declared strict “wartime measures” that allow residents to leave their homes only several times a week and upon approval from neighborhood authorities.

The number of new cases across China, including in Hubei, were falling, said Chinese National Health Commission spokesman Mi Feng, who noted that doctors in the worst-hit province had broadened their diagnosis criteria for patients suspected of suffering from the disease and were able to treat them more quickly.

“The effects of our counter-coronavirus measures in every part of the country are already becoming apparent,” Mi said.

Health experts have warned that the coronavirus is difficult to contain precisely because symptoms are often mild and the coronavirus could replicate inside the human body and infect others for more than two weeks before showing symptoms at all.

Canada, South Korea, Italy and Hong Kong announced Sunday they would also arrange charter flights for those stuck on Princess Diamond Cruise ship.

Poor fucks from the UK are still stuck there! The Queen doesn't give a shit about you lot! anarchy for the uk!

The British guy whining about being abandoned by the UK is an appalling human being. He is David Abel and his wife Sallly. They have been making youtube videos throughout their quarantine and doing livechats as well.

First of all they proudly claim to be staunch tories, who are used to "a prosperous lifestyle." When the quarantine started, people were asking them if they would ever cruise again, and they loudly proclaimed, "oh of course! This is nothing!" They were offered the opportunity to disembark into quarantine in Japan, from which they could have flown home after 3 weeks, but refused. Why? Because, according to David Abel, they would be shut up in a house with dodgy internet and no European foods. This is not the prosperous way to live!" Prosperous is his favorite adjective.

As time went on, he started issuing video pleas to Richard Branson, to send a private jet to his fellow UK citizens, to fly them home. Sure there might be danger to the pilot and staff, but what if they all promised to wear their facemasks?"

He was not kidding. He was totally serious.

I have no sympathy for this asshole whatsoever. Or his ultimately frauish wife. Both of whom have recently developed coughs and cold symptoms by the way.

The careless handling of the Westerdam ship was a mistake.

yes, they may be awful human beings but they have rights as UK citizens. I just find it shocking that UK has not made arrangements to go get them like the Italians, S.Koreans, Canadians etc.

Also remember the UK govt did a shitty job getting its citizens out of Wuhan, the flight was delayed and delayed because they couldn't get proper permits or some such shit while Japan was already on it's 3rd plane getting their citizens out of Wuhan.

UK is in utter shambles!

So R171? The poor fucks from the UK are stuck there because they were rod up their butt assholes who felt they were too good to be inconvenienced in even the slightest way. I hope they have to spend 2 months in quarantine, eating non-European foods (irony does not escape me that a fucking Brit is complaining about the quality of Japanese cuisine) and using squatty potties. The UK did what it was supposed to do: arranged for local quarantine via the very accommodting Japanese government. If these idiots want to insist on full English breakfasts in quarantine, fine. They've made their choice.

British pricks. I cannot stand the entitlement.

So R171? The poor fucks from the UK are stuck there because they were rod up their butt assholes who felt they were too good to be inconvenienced in even the slightest way. I hope they have to spend 2 months in quarantine, eating non-European foods (irony does not escape me that a fucking Brit is complaining about the quality of Japanese cuisine) and using squatty potties. The UK did what it was supposed to do: arranged for local quarantine via the very accommodting Japanese government. If these idiots want to insist on full English breakfasts in quarantine, fine. They've made their choice.

British pricks. I cannot stand the entitlement.

R175 unfortunately the whole bloody country feels like this at the moment. Twats like this David Abel feel like they are winning with Brexit and the recent general election. They are going to get some shocks over the next few years when things stop going their way as they will not be able to handle it. Also, living a “prosperous lifestyle “ doesn’t even make sense. You are prosperous, you don’t live a prosperous lifestyle and neither will protect you from Wu Flu.

I asked about the incubation period upthread and someone posted from an article that people can be infected for over 2 weeks before they show signs. No wonder this is spreading since people won't even know they have the virus.

R177, David Abel is clearly nouveau riche. He is diabetic and has a lactose intolerance. The ship's ches stocked up on lactose free dairy products to accommodate his dietary restrictions, but they have now run out. David Abel is pissed because they gave someone else his lactose free milk and now there is none left for him. "Well maybe they didn't give it to someone else, dear, maybe you used up all they had for you?" Says Sally, frauish wife.

What does it say about a bloody ountry that they cannot get more lactose free milk? He responds.

His health is being carefully monitored, but for that he is not grateful. He would be SAFER in a Japanese quarantine, but wants to stay in his cabin suite till Richard Branson comes to save his sorry ass. He wants it his way, now, dammit. Who cares how many other people he endangers?

Meanwhile he has missing teeth, a working class accent, and a boorish personality. None of which are a problem except that if he had a brain cell in his head, he'd realize he is not what he is trying to claim to be, nor is he able to convince anyone else. Time to normalize and pitch in with your fellow man, you pretentious idiot. You are not more valuable than any other person, and do not get ro go around infecting innocent people, all in the interests of feeding your classist mental masturbation.

It shouldn't matter what kind of assholes they are from the UK. That's what you pay taxes for, you expect your govt to come to your aide.

"On Saturday, the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo sent a letter to U.S. citizens aboard the ship informing them of the planned extraction scheduled for Sunday night." via NPR.

This is how fast the USA works.

R180, the British government DID what they were supposed to do. They made arrangements to get them safely off that ship into Japaenes quarantine.

You do not pay taxes so you can make prima donnaish demands in a health crisis. You pay taxes to be part of a society. People who act the way David Abel does clearly view themselves as extraordinary and as people who should not only not have to abide by the rules everyone else does, but who are actually better people and therefore more valuable to the society. The British have raised classism to an unparalleled degree and every idiot in the UK aspires to that level of specialness.

I'd say any humbling coming their way will be healthy, character building and well-deserved.

The Reddit post is fiction. It was written for nosleep, which is a depot for horror fiction.

[quote]That reddit post is Illuminati conspiracy theory fiction. It lost me at “deep state.”

Was that before or after he got a pass on murdering a research subject by reimbursing the government for the bullet he used?

US secretary of state: "I think we all need to be mindful of the serious nature of the threat that is posed"

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaking to reporters Sunday in Senegal said, “I think we all need to be mindful of the serious nature of the threat that is posed” by the spread of the coronavirus.

"[W]e are prepared to do everything that the United States can do to reduce the risk to populations," Pompeo said.

Pompeo added that he was especially concerned about countries “where there is not significant capable healthcare infrastructure. That presents a lot of risk and we are already doing our best.”

Another case of the virus was also confirmed in Taiwan on Sunday, the health ministry said.

The man in his 50s who is currently asymptomatic, bringing the total number of confirmed cases on the island to 20.

My partner is a doctor and says that when he placed his last order for facemasks, he was told that his order may be reduced as a result of limited supply (northeastern large city in US).

Also, I got a lecture on how filthy I am and will be the death of us.

Elton John has pneumonia! I hope it's not the coronavirus!!!

Forty Americans being taken off the quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess ARE infected with new coronavirus and they’re on their way here!

R188, they are going to military base in California for quarantine...

But those on the Westerdam are not!!! Freak out over them! There are over 600 americans on this ship. only about 400 on the diamond princess.

R187

And I guess that's why they call it the WuFlu

Germs on my hands could be infecting you

Sneezing like children, bodily fluids like lovers

Coughing like thunder under the covers

And I guess that's why they call it the WuFlu

The drastic quarantine measures taken in China will never be tolerated in the US. Quarantining a few passengers from cruise ships is very different from locking down apartment buildings and public spaces.

The CDC is fucking useless, they can't even develop proper tests to send out to states! Can we really trust their results?

WTF is going on?

We are not being told the truth.

I assume this is in China. Overwhelmed...no way they can know the real numbers themselves.

The difference between those diamond princess passengers coming to the US now, as opposed to Japanese quarantine 2 weeks ago: The US government was not smart enough to make those arrangements as the UK did. At that time there were very few positive passengers. Now there are 40, coronavirus positive.

I am sure Japan is no longer willing to take this on. Imagine having Japan asking the US to take 40 coronavirus positive japanese citizens into the country.

These Americans are going into a military base quarantine in the US. And the elitists in THAT group are complaining about the money they will lose. One woman, Gina Mansicalco (not sure her first name is Zgina but i think that's what it was), says she'll lose $50K in real estate fees from her business in Utah.

Somehow i think someone who makes 2 million a year would find a way to cope.

I swear people can be such idiots.

What I don't understand is how you can be re-infected. Do they know this for sure? If the germs stay on surfaces for 9 days, then it would be very easy to re-infect yourself. Usually with viruses you get it once and develop immunity, I don't see why this virus would be any different.

China’s central bank will reportedly destroy some cash in areas hard-hit by the coronavirus to prevent contagion.

People’s Bank of China has ordered the return of paper currency in circulation at hospitals, animal markets and buses near the country’s hot zones in order to destruct potentially-contaminated bills, the South China Morning Post reported.

Other locations in the country will have their bills locked up for at least 14 days as the money comes back to local banks, while less impacted areas are required to place cash in a week of quarantine, according to Bloomberg News.

During the quarantine, the cash will be subjected to a disinfection process that involves ultraviolet light.

“Money from key virus-hit areas will be sanitized with ultraviolet rays or heated and locked up for at least 14 days, before it is distributed again,” PBOC deputy governor, Fan Yifei, said.

Nearly 7.8 billion yuan, or $1.1 billion, was removed from circulation in the Guangdong province between Feb. 3 and 13, while another 3 billion yuan, $429 million, or was put back into circulation, South China Morning Post reported.

The government has also halted the transfer of cash across provinces, as well as between cities most impacted by the epidemic, according to Bloomberg.

[quote]The fleet of coaches - 11 in all it appears- lined up to "save" the Americans. An American woman - who last night could be heard shouting, "Get me off this ship" - stands on her balcony chanting "USA, USA." Of course, in contravention of the rules of quarantine,

[quote]she's not wearing a face mask, & she's talking with a passenger on the adjacent balcony well within 6 feet of each other. We scurry back inside. If there are secondary infections onboard, this is why: idiots who don't know any better. And you wanted me to get on a bus with her?

Who the fuck is gonna go on a cruise ever?

I've never been interested. You hear about hundreds of people sick from eating the same food all the time on the news. They are disgusting vessels.

We have put a deposit on a cruise of French Polynesia for November. But we're going to postpone it until November 2021. That is, if this thing is under control by then.

Uh oh.

R201 no legit news sources yet

Over 68,000 cases of the coronavirus. I heard on MSNBC just awhile ago that the virus spreads faster than Ebola.

A Coronavirus Quarantine in America Could Be a Giant Legal Mess

America’s defense against epidemics is divided among more than 2,000 individual public-health departments, which makes implementing a national strategy very difficult.

A friend of mine, a stupid friend of mine, is a librarian in Queens NY and lives in Brooklyn. He encounters many Asian people at work and in his neighborhood. So he thought he felt bad this past Friday night and begs me to take him to the ER because he was just "too sick" to go by himself. He was sure he had the Corona virus. Never mind that if he did he expected me to be sitting and standing right next to him. Anyway, we go to the ER and he tells the triage nurse that he's sure he has it. Is there a test for it. She rolls her eyes and shakes her head and says to me, realizing he's too moronic to understand, that he's about the 100th patient she's seen on this shift who thought the same thing.

She asks him if he's been out of the country recently. Of course he say no. She says "You gonna make me spend time taking your vitals. He says "Please." Naturally, everything is normal. The nurse says you're fine, good night. Moron friend tries to insist he be admitted "just in case," although admits he is feeling better. She tells him there is over a 24 hour wait to be admitted and at least an 8 hour wait to actually get into the back, where the stretchers are and while he's back there he has a good chance of catching the flu, which moron was too afraid to get vaccinated against. He actually had to think about it until I said, I'm going home, you do what you want. Moron decides he feels a lot better and that he'd rather get a ride home than take a car service or subway.

This is what's going on all over. My friend is not the only moron in this country. Imagine how much longer the people with real ailments have to wait when they go to the ER with a legitimate problem.

The problem is people are getting sick (with the coronavirus) even without travel to China. A few even died.

In addition to the N95 mask issue and completely independently of the Coronavirus situation there are supply chain issues with surgical gowns in the US stemming from a massive recall due to unsanitary manufacturing conditions in Mainland China. Getting PPE and medication production back to North America is a national security issue for the US.

R196 it depends if the virus mutates quickly or not. The common cold stems from a Coronavirus and I assume you’ve had more than one cold in your life. I think (could be wrong!) that the virus would need to pass through another carrier first to mutate before re-infecting; so (again could be wrong) that there is nothing to fear from you own fomites.

N95 is not going to help against the Coronavirus R207.

That's very unfortunate R205, but you'll have to tell your friend the sad news: his real diagnosis is a dual diagnosis and it's a co-morbidity of HPD and hypochondria.

Also wow about that Daily Mail story if it is confirmed.

BUT it is PrinciPAL Investigator, not PrinciPLE Investigator.

[quote] Honestly, the Reddit story in [[R138]] sounds more believable than what we've been seeing in the news.

The whole reddit post sounds like a cheap nineteenth-century penny dreadful, and was certainly not written by a native Chinese speaker, even after several PhDs from “Western universities.” I know—I’ve supervised more than my fair share.

R208 we’re officially fucked

1st death in Taiwan

Well this is frightening. It is a voicemail left for a Dr. in which the caller says they are covering up the Coronavirus cases in New York.

....

R213 And the fifth death outside China. Given there are now nearly 600 or more people outside China that have contacted the virus, with a small number really sick that is going to be over a 1% death rate out those 600. This is not looking good.

CNN-Here's how to protect yourself from coronavirus

Dr. John Wiesman, the health secretary in Washington state -- where the first US case of Wuhan coronavirus was confirmed -- says the public should do "what you do every cold and flu season."

That includes washing your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds.

If you're the one feeling sick, cover your entire mouth and nose when you cough or sneeze. But don't use your hands. Use either your bent elbow or a tissue that you throw away immediately afterward.

WHO also recommends staying at least 3 feet or 1 meter away from anyone who may be infected.

Is there a cure for novel coronavirus? No. Patients can be treated and may recover from their symptoms, but there is no known cure for the novel coronavirus yet.

So then, are people who recover still contagious/carriers?

I’m so glad cruise lines might be severely hurt by this crisis. They’re disgusting trash frequented by fat, lazy Americans and Brits. Good riddance.

R218 No. They are only recovered and released once they feel better and are show carrying the virus. What is unknown is if they can catch it again.

The coronavirus might be the spoiler in the presidential election. Speculation is if this continues, because of economic impact, Trump will not be reelected.

Anyone could have made that phonecall...how do you know it's real?

However, I do find it weird that there are no cases in NYC.

Also CDC can't even make proper tests. who knows how accurate their results are?

Are there any real "cures" for viruses? We can't cure the common cold, or the flu, or any other common virus that I'm aware of. We can treat symptoms, and give supportive care, but even anti-virals aren't really a cure.

What he is saying R222 is that it needs to be looked into.

R199, It is DataLounge posters that convinced me cruise ship travel was very different from what I had anticipated. I 86'd plans to go on a fun, young singles cruise when I learned it was a very low-class adventure with so-so entertainment options.

If all these conspiracies are true about hiding cases in America, false numbers in China, transmission details etc... the US government is basically preparing for a massive lockdown before letting on the extent of the issue. Then it’ll be a very sudden martial law situation. Americans are much more mobile, independent and wealthy than the Chinese and the moment the citizens think the major cities are about to be quarantined like Wuhan they will rush to the airports etc. Americans are fucking nuts & noncompliant compared to other cultures and the government realizes full military force will be required to subdue them, hence all these trainings, quarantine setup preps and slow info rollout. Those videos from Wuhan will look peaceful x1000 compared to NYC, LA or say all the rednecks in Houston. I honestly don’t know what would be a worse place to be a red or a blue state.

The conspiracies are NOT all true. Will US policy go from containment to mitigation at some point in the future? Possibly, if/when warranted. Will that mean violent lock downs in the US? NO, for goodness sake's NO. Maybe some sports games will get cancelled.Maybe we'll able be ordering seamless for a month.

If people are going to be using social media to get news, here's a helpful link.

It would help if I put the link in the right place!

“BUT it is PrinciPAL Investigator, not PrinciPLE Investigator.”

Thank you, ElderLez.

English is an autistic bastard language.

I think it is interesting that most of the people dying are men. Considering the fact that China has a big problem with having too many men in their population and not enough women. coincidence?

Cambodia may have unwittingly scattered potentially infected people to the four winds.

[quote] An American woman who left a cruise ship in Cambodia last week and flew to M'sia has tested positive for the coronavirus. Hundreds of passengers from the ship have already departed for several countries. Health experts say they are alarmed.

The speed of transmission aboard the cruise ship- the closest thing we have to a Petri dish IRL- should be informing all official responses.

Voluntary quarantine, mass”propaganda” telling people NOT to go to the ER unless they’re dying, quarantine of all individuals who enter the hospital- with redeployment of medical professionals and equipment away from hospitals for emergency medicine (appendicitis, injuries, non-virus related health issues) and sacrifice economic “growth” to prepare for survival of the vast majority.

The hardships would be something we’re not used to, but the alternative is to allow this to spread catastrophically before acting.

Every county should be quarantined, and transport between counties should only be allowed for essential goods.

Keep the quarantine in place until we have a cure or some other means of mitigating the damage.

Otherwise, hospitals will become morgues, cities will become hell on earth, and the consequences will be even worse than we can imagine.

It's interesting to me that most of the victims are either Asian with maybe a handful of white people, especially when you consider the fact that the Chinese are everywhere and there are plenty of highly populated and dense black and brown countries that you'd think would be just as likely to get it -- India is one example. Is there something about having less pigment in one's skin that makes some more susceptible to it?

R233 just wait. It’s incubating now.

R233, No, it's not melanin. The most likely thing is that Chinese men smoke and Chinese women, for the most part, don't. The virus does a number on the lungs. If your lungs are already damaged from years of smoking, there's less resilience and wham!

R234

The extended incubation, R-naught, and asymptomatic spread should scare the fuck out of anyone who has ever taken a public health course.

Even if mortality under hospital conditions remains less than 1%, no country has enough beds for the 20% who become critically ill and require intensive care.

The USA has one bed for every 300 residents.

Think about that. If 0.3% of the population got sick simultaneously and required hospitalization, it would overwhelm the healthcare system.

If 50% of the population gets sick and 20% require ICU level care...the death toll will be unimaginable.

A worse worst case scenario is constant reinfection with more complications in the subsequent infections, increasing CFR to 30-60%.

4 or 5 billion dead people would be catastrophic to living standards worldwide.

R235 so this an effort to eliminate smokers? That sucks, smokers are always the most interesting people.

Also, there have been some cases in India, but the two countries have less contact than you might think. Indians don't emigrate there, so less travel back and forth. China's good buddies with Pakistan, which puts them on the other side from India. They've fought each other.

While there's a historical ethnic population in China, there are only a few thousand Chinese nationals in India--less than 10,000. More Indians in China, though still less than 50,000.

So, even though they're near one another, India isn't getting hit hardest first, though it's going to be bad if it's not contained there.

[quote][R213] And the fifth death outside China. Given there are now nearly 600 or more people outside China that have contacted the virus, with a small number really sick that is going to be over a 1% death rate out those 600. This is not looking good.

It's not looking good, but won't those rates ( approx 1%) go down once we get a handle on how best to treat this? Once the proper mix of prophylactic meds and treatments (antivirals, protease inhibitors for ex) are identified and hopefully mass produced.

The mortality rate may steady or decline in developed countries, but could climb to stratospheric levels in undeveloped areas, with poor health care options and delivery.

It only kills East Asians.

Reports are that those men that recover will be sterile for life.

R241 From who? Bat Boy?

Geneticist here. There have been a few posts asking me for sources etc., so I will just make a list:

Someone asked me where I got the Singapore death statistics (58 confirmed cases, 9 dead). That was via Chris Martinson in one of his Peak Prosperity videos posted here. He has published a LOT of data that I have not seen reported in the mainstream media, much of it CCP data but much also from academicians in China. I took the value as true because he reported it. I don’t remember which one it was, but if you go through his recent (within the last week) Coronavirus videos, you will see it. I can't vouch for it, just used it in a model of infectivity, but as I said, because the CCP has been lying so much about true numbers, we can't really be confident in ANY estimates or R0, or infectivity.

R136. Yes, that is the point of that recent paper from Harvard. That there is virtually no way to avoid the second infection. Our struggle is going to be to contain this virus and to find an immunological way to ward off even the first infection without creating the immunopathology.

R147 (medicinal chemist). I don’t know. What do you think? Maybe if ACE2 inhibitors were used in a combinatorial therapy it might be helpful, but the issue is still going to be controlling the immune response. Protease inhibitors and ACE2 inhibitors together maybe? None of the protease inhibitors on their own work with 100% efficacy either, so maybe that would be a way to go, i.e., ACE2 inhibitor + protease inhibitor. Here is the thing. You get infected, a viral particle is roaming around through your body and sticking to ACE2 receptors as it finds them. That first viral particle binds to an ACE2 molecule allows the virus into a cell and immediately turns that cell into a bag of viruses and from then on? The clock is ticking. So maybe the virus gets into a cell before it is detected by the immune system. And let’s say it is a naïve presentation, so there is no memory of the antigen to rely on, and it takes a while to mount an immune response. Let’s say the person is on ACE2 inhibitors AND protease inhibitors prophylactically, so infections proceed more slowly. But the immune system is working independently of all of this. Eventually an immune response is initiated, and the immune system is sensitized. The patient recovers. The T-cells fight the virus back. BUT a second infection occurs, and now the immune system HAS memory and the cytokine storm is initiated. And the expression level of ACE2 seems to be related to the severity of the organ system failure. So we have to figure out: a. how much ACE2 on cell surfaces crosses a triggering threshold for cytokine storm responses? And 2. What triggers that cytokine storm? I have NOT read the literature on this. I know there is an extensive literature on cytokine storms in flu viruses, so maybe I’ll read up and report back here. I'm a little behind at work, though....

R150 (ElderLez). I suppose I don’t either, but I am not willing yet to dismiss it. I am not willing to jump into Reddit level conspiracy theory however.

R166, it is almost certain that BSL-4 lab was the source of this virus. Come on. It is simply the most parsimonious explanation. I think the CCP realizes this and may be making this admission because other culpabilities are so much more severe than this. For example, what if it turns out this virus WAS edited using CRISPR, when they were censured on this issue 5 years ago? What if it turns out they knew about the virus getting out and did nothing for 2 months? Maybe being willing to admit this much (which is pretty obvious and undeniable anyway) is going to make deniability on even bigger issues more possible.

R195, yes, they would be able to figure this out pretty easily. From the animal models though, using SARS viruses, they do know the same animal will be infected more than once, and that the second time is worse. Because this virus (as all viruses are, really) is mutable, sequence changes in the genome of the virus should make it apparent as to whether or not the same virus mutated within a patient vs a second independent infection event. The only qualifier I would make to that is that the genome is very small. Only 250 nucleotides. So this level of genomic analysis is limited.

R223, yes there are “cures” but not in the sense that there are anti-biotic cures that kill the bug. They don’t really kill the virus, they just limit its ability to replicate. And the immune system (if it has not itself been compromised as part of the viral infection) is pretty darned good at getting rid of viruses. In cases where there are effective drugs, they usually do things like inhibit the virus in a part of its life cycle. So inhibit its ability to enter cells, inhibit its ability to unwrap its protein coat, inhibit its genome from being able to replicate, inhibit its proteins from being synthesized or processed, inhibit virion assembly, etc. For HIV, for example, two steps are typically inhibited: AZT inhibits reverse transcriptase, so the RNA genome cannot be translated into DNA. And the protease inhibitors make it impossible to cleave the protein products into individual functional units. So together, they severely decrease the number of HIV viral particles in the patient, though rarely eliminate it completely. The reason we can’t cure the common cold is that it is so efficiently eliminated by our immune systems. By the time you have symptoms, it is mostly over. The symptoms are caused by a histamine response. 3 days coming, 3 days with you, 3 days going is pretty accurate and contagion is mostly over by day 4.

But things like polio and rabies? Those can be controlled by immunization, but once you have symptoms, all bets are off. We don’t have good drugs to treat them, and in fact, if you get rabies, by the time symptoms show, all we have is palliative care, i.e., drugs to anesthetize you till you die. Interestingly, the treatment for people who are at risk of getting rabies (at risk meaning they have been bitten by a raccoon or rabid dog) but who are not yet symptomatic, is to dose them with immunoglobulins from people who have been exposed to rabies, so THEIR antibodies control the virus till your own immune system can kick in, make its own antibodies and kill it.

R230, yes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Once again, really sorry to have gone on too long.

Hey ElderLez! Thought you'd enjoy this relatively recent (2015) review on the cytokine storm! Look where at its acknowledgements, but ore importantly, the affiliation of the authors!

Is this the thread where all the Call Me By My Name/Megan Markle weirdos have congregated?

^^ Yes. And it's also where the Connor/Miles stans are posting incognito. They're on the inside track of this Corona thing.

If this did come the lab in Wuhan, it makes you think about Laurence Fishburne's line in Contagion - the last thing we need is for this to walk out of a lab on the bottom of someone's shoe.

This better not strike Germany. They still smoke like chimneys over there.

Several Germans got infected at a company meeting. Their coworker just arrived from Wuhan.

Another coworker who was not at the meeting and one man's young daughter were also infected.

Would like to know if they were Asian or Caucasian as the former appear to have a much higher rate of infection due to inherited characteristics.

The Princess Cruise Ship will receive a mandatory deep cleaning and a fresh coat of paint. Motion activated Purcell Hand Sanitizing Systems will be installed in every room and hallway, and protective face masks will be placed in the bedside night stand.

And last, but not least, the ship will be appropriately renamed 💀 [italic] Duchess Morté.

Massive quarantine is not possible in the US. The Chinese will do it because they’ve been trained to do it literally their entire lives. We do not live that way here or have that culture. It will be impossible. It will not happen.

R252 so basically once it hits here we’re all fucked

Yes R253. Duh.

The paint etc on the cruise ship seems the kind of thing that makes management happy, but has little to do with reality.

Two weeks until the Cruise Ship Clowns return to U.S. soil.

Get your affairs in order. Never mind, it won't really matter .........

Yes r255. Duh.

The San Antonio flight is over CONUS; Travis flight is still over Pacific nearing CONUS.

Geneticist, more reading and it seems that SARS/coronavirus binds at the surface of ACE2 and away from the active site. The active site inhibitor MLN-4760 does not prevent the binding nor cell entry of SARS (tested back in 2005). Another good idea dashed by ugly facts. Oh well. We need to set up a screening campaign to identify molecules that bind the surface of ACE2 and disrupt virus binding. I'm on it...

My Bf showed a link where a Chinese man pretending to be a Government official called up a Wuhan crematorium. He asked about the number of deaths reported that day. The worker replied if he wanted the truth or the 'official' number. He said the truth. The worker said 128 were cremated; they were only allowed to report 9.

R260 A week ago I would have 'Sure Jan'd you but with news that the CCP knew about the outright earlier than first thought I've done a turn around from giving the Chinese the 'benefit of doubt' to 'I don't trust anything they say'.

The Diamond Princess flight has landed at Travis AFB.

A hospital in Sagamihara City near Tokyo says one member of staff is confirmed to have the new coronavirus.

Japan's Imperial Household Agency has canceled Emperor Naruhito's greetings to the public on his birthday on February 23 due to the new coronavirus outbreak.

cnn-Experts from the World Health Organization have arrived in China on a joint mission

Twelve international and World Health Organization (WHO) experts landed in Beijing yesterday, for a WHO-led joint mission with Chinese national experts.

The experts will be reviewing data, holding workshops, and making field visits to three provinces to study the coronavirus outbreak. The visiting experts will stay as long as needed, said WHO director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

“The goal of the joint mission is to rapidly inform the next steps in the Covid-19 response and preparedness activities in China and globally,” Ghebreyesus said last week.

After arriving, the experts held their first meeting with their Chinese counterparts.

CDC snubbed: The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has offered to send experts to China, but the offer has not yet been accepted.

US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told CNN that the CDC first offered to send experts to China on January 6.

"It's dependent on the Chinese to make their decisions and facilitate that," Azar said. "We are ready to go and we are waiting for final clearance from the Chinese government to make that happen."

CNN-Thieves stole 600 toilet paper rolls in Hong Kong amid fears of coronavirus shortages

Police in Hong Kong have arrested two men and are searching for a third after the group stole about 600 toilet paper rolls, in a robbery likely sparked by coronavirus fears that have gripped the city.

Early Monday morning, a delivery worker was transporting goods to a supermarket in the city's Mong Kok district. He had placed about 50 packs of toilet rolls, containing about 600 rolls, outside the supermarket when three men stole them, police said.

Several hours later, police found the stolen toilet rolls in a nearby guesthouse, and arrested two of the men. They are investigating the incident as a robbery, and are still looking for the third suspect.

Why are people stealing toilet rolls? Earlier this month, the Hong Kong government announced it would close some borders with mainland China -- sparking unsubstantiated rumors that supply chains from China would be cut off.

The city government denied the rumors and tried to reassure the public -- but to no avail. Residents rushed to supermarkets to load up on supposedly endangered goods such as toilet paper rolls, rice, hand sanitizer, and other cleaning products.

Soon, supermarkets sold out entirely of toilet rolls, food staples, and other crucial goods; photos inside supermarkets showed barren shelves and empty aisles.

People are scared and angry: The toilet roll crisis sparked controversy in Hong Kong. After photos circulated on social media of residents hoarding multiple packs, some accused the panic buyers of unnecessarily creating chaos and confusion.

cnn-Diamond Princess has 99 new coronavirus cases onboard

A further 99 more people from the Diamond Princess cruise ship have tested positive for novel coronavirus, the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour, and Welfare announced on Monday.

It’s the largest single-day increase of cases stemming from the ship to date, and comes as multiple countries around the world prepare to follow the United States in evacuating their citizens from the ship.

There are now a total of 456 cases originating from the Diamond Princess, which had around 3,600 people quarantined onboard over coronavirus fears -- more than 10% of everybody on the ship.

The new cases brings the total number of coronavirus cases in Japan to 513 -- by far the highest number of cases outside of mainland China.

Of the 99 cases, 70 are asymptomatic, the ministry said. They will be moved to onshore medical facilities.

Chicago couple treated for coronavirus make full recovery: officials

A Chicago woman and her husband — the country’s first case of person-to-person transmission of the coronavirus — have made a full recovery, officials say.

The couple, whose identities haven’t been released, were discharged from a suburban Chicago hospital Feb. 7 and remained in isolation at home until Friday, according to a statement from the city’s Department of Public Health.

“We believe both patients can now safely return to their regular activities, including work, without restrictions,” Dr. Allison Arwady, commissioner of the Health Department, said in the statement.

Arwady said the woman and husband “do not need to wear masks and neither does anyone interacting with them.

“They have now had multiple rounds of negative testing for the virus and are clinically well,” she said.

The woman, who is in her 60s, became sick with the coronavirus after traveling to Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak, in China, officials said.

She was confirmed Jan. 24 as Illinois’s first case of the coronavirus. Six days later, her husband, who is also in his 60s, was announced as yet another case after catching the bug from the woman.

WHY ARE YOU SO USELESS R259? WHY ARE REPEATING NONSENSE GIBBERISH? YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS. I CANNOT DIE ALONE OF CONSUMPTION LIKE MY GRANDMA. I CANNOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE. MURIEL DO SOMETHING!

There is now info out there saying that black and brown populations might actually be less affected by this due to fewer ACE2 receptors, no melanin.

From The Guardian 2 hours ago:

Japan is bracing for the possibility of hundreds of additional cases of the coronavirus onboard the stricken Princess Diamond, after health officials said on Monday that a further 99 people on the ship had tested positive.

The passengers already evacuated from the ship face further uncertainty too, with the US and Australian citizens set for a further two weeks of quarantine after arriving home. Hundreds of American passengers have flown back to the US and Australia said it would follow suit on Wednesday.

The US state department announced later that 14 of the 340 American evacuees were confirmed to have the virus in tests given before they boarded the planes. They were taken to the US because they did not have symptoms and were being isolated from other passengers on the planes, it said. It was not immediately clear whether the 14 were among the 99 new cases.

Onboard the Diamond Princess, 454 people have been diagnosed with Covid-19 out of an original total of about 3,600 passengers and crew. Japan’s health ministry said it had tested 1,723 people on the vessel.

Forty American passengers who were diagnosed with the virus on Sunday have been transferred to hospitals in Japan. Most of the people on the ship, which has the largest number of cases outside China, have yet to be tested.

The health ministry will continue to test passengers and crew on the Diamond Princess, whose 14-day quarantine was due to end on Wednesday.

Japanese public health experts advising the government defended the decision to isolate passengers and crew on the ship, even as the number of cases increased again on Monday.

“Many people are testing positive on the ship, but that is because we are testing everyone onboard, regardless of their medical condition,” said Shigeru Omi, the chief director of the Japan Community Health Care Organisation. “And 70% of those testing positive are not showing any symptoms at all.”

Omi said any disruption to this summer’s Tokyo Olympics – including the Games’ cancellation – would depend on how and if the virus mutates in the coming months, as well as the effectiveness of the international community’s attempts to contain the outbreak.

“Whether the virus is under control by the time of the Olympics is anyone’s guess,” he said at a media briefing in Tokyo.

Omi conceded that tracing the chain of domestic transmissions not related to the Diamond Princes was proving difficult, but denied Japan, which has confirmed 65 cases on land, was becoming a second major infection cluster.

“Our focus now is on community-based preventative action to lower the speed of the transmission of the virus,” he said. “It is true that there have been silent transmissions, but Japan is certainly not in a state of pandemic.”

My comment:

This paragraph is very scary:

"Omi conceded that tracing the chain of domestic transmissions not related to the Diamond Princes was proving difficult, but denied Japan, which has confirmed 65 cases on land, was becoming a second major infection cluster."

If it the virus takes off in Japan its likely to take off everywhere sooner or later.

Poo, you in danger, gurl!

[quote]A Henderson couple returned home Sunday from a cruise vacation in Asia, during which their ship was turned away from multiple countries for fear of spreading the new coronavirus from China.

[quote]They arrived at LAX on Saturday evening. After they were processed, the couple rented a car and drove to their home.

[quote]The Schaeffers arrived at 1:45 a.m. Sunday.

[quote]The couple is now catching up on housework and completed a run to Costco to stock up on food after being gone for more than 30 days.

Great. The Diamond Princess is the new Typhoid Mary.

R273 How very considering of the fucking selfish cunts. They could have ordered anything they need on-line and had it left at their front door. Instead they go shopping with the potential to spread the disease. Sure, it's a small chance but chances should not be taken with something the medical professional is grappling to understand themselves.

This fucking virus is going to spread all over the world because of the sheer ignorance and stupidity of Governments and people to varying degrees.

Thankfully, Australia is contacting all those on that ship who have arrived but not sure what they are doing with them. It will either be home quarantine or enforced quarantine in the middle of nowhere. Australia is also not letting anyone including Australian citizens from that ship into the country. The ones that have already made it home can count themselves lucky.

The infected should be transported to Jeffrey Epstein's private island.

He certainly no longer has any use for it.

This thread has me stocking up on Emergency-C packets from Costco.

Don't worry fellas, I'm on the case !

As someone said on one of the programs yesterday, the ships are the petri dish.

Those people in R273's post ought to have their asses beaten. Selfish fucks!

Bill Burr once did a set where he said he thinks the best way to reduce the world's population would be to randomly sink cruise ships.

Having heard from the horrible British couple on the Diamond Princess, having seen the American bitch who screamed USA! USA! Repeatedly, without a mask, as she was being airlifted home, and now these assholes going to Costco to stock up for their home quarantine, I am thinking Bill Burr's got something there. This has made me consider people who go on cruises as complete and utter assholes.

The couple are not medical experts.

They gave up weeks of their lives while the rest of the world decided what to do with the ship they were on.

They were screened (multiple times) both on the ship and off.

If you finally were released from extended quarantine, would YOU put yourself back in?

A @3M plant in South Dakota is working overtime to make face masks to help ease the shortage in China due to the #coronavirus

via bloomberg

People's Daily, China (twitter)

Liu Zhiming, director of #Wuhan Wuchang Hospital, died on Feb. 17 due to the infection with #COVID19. He is the first hospital director that died from #coronavirus. #RIP

=======================

how old does he look? doesn't look that old to me.

Orientals are frequently young looking until they’re not

Our worries are over.

Thanks for telling me not to go to Henderson Costco.

467 people in the US have been investigated for coronavirus

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has listed 467 people under investigation for the novel coronavirus in 42 states, according to an update posted to the agency's website Monday.

Of them...

15 have tested positive

392 have tested negative

60 are still pending

Keep in mind: The latest count "does not include [people under investigation] in the US that were evacuated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship, including 14 presumptive-positive cases that are being retested,” the CDC says.

The 15 confirmed cases in the US include eight in California, one in Texas, one in Massachusetts, one in Washington state, one in Arizona, two in Illinois and one in Wisconsin. There are two instances of person-to-person transmission, one in Illinois and one in California. Two California cases and the Texas case are among evacuees from China.

This is an increase from Friday, when the CDC listed 443 people under investigation in 42 states, including 15 positive, 347 negative and 81 pending cases.

China finds promising coronavirus treatment in blood plasma from recovered patients

China National Biotec Group Co. has been using this plasma, which contains highly potent antibodies, to treat more than 10 seriously ill patients since Feb. 8, the company said in a statement on its official WeChat account Thursday night. It claimed that those receiving the treatment improved within 24 hours, with reduced inflammation and viral loads along with better oxygen levels in the blood.

“Patients who have recovered from the novel coronavirus pneumonia, will generate antibodies that can kill and remove the virus,” the company said in the statement, citing unidentified experts. “In the absence of a vaccine and specifically targeted drugs, using this plasma is the most effective way to treat the infection and can significantly reduce the death toll.”

China National Biotech also called on people who have recovered from the disease to donate their plasma in a separate statement.

China’s National Health Commission has listed plasma among treatment measures for critically ill patients in its latest treatment guideline.

Human clinical trials are also underway for multiple drugs such as Gilead Sciences Inc.’s experimental therapy remdesivir and AbbVie Inc.’s anti-HIV pill, Kaletra. Several other antiviral drugs as well as traditional Chinese herbal medicines are also under study for their virus-fighting potential.

R282. Yes, I would. First of all, these people had the option of being removed from the ship early on but refused. Why? Because they would have gone into a small quarantine cottage in Japan for 2 weeks, AT WHICH POINT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN FREE TO GO HOME, but it would not have uninterrupted internet access and non-European foods. They preferred to stay on the ship where they had meals delivered to their specification, had their beds made for them every day and had chocolates put on their pillows every night.

NOW it turns out the incubation times are much longer than expected. So it turns out you have to be quarantined for 4 weeks or 6 or 8 wks. But it means you will not endanger other people. So would I complain about having to b in quarantine longer? No. I would suck it up and try to be a grown up. These people are entitled selfish spoiled brats.

So do the Japanese r249. When I was in Myanmar and Thailand in late Dec/mid Jan, there were droves of Chinese tourists everywhere. Surely there would be more cases there?

R289. That plasma treatment is merely what is already done for people suspected of having rabies but who are not yet symptomatic. Once you ARE symptomatic, there is nothing that can be done for you and they wait for you to die.

The treatment consists of providing you with the plasma immunoglobulins from people who have had the viral infection before you. Their antibodies buy you some time until your own antibodies kick in. The question of course becomes, OK, what happens when you face the inevitable second exposure when you then mount the cytokine storm?

This is not a cure, nor is it even a useful therapy. It is a stopgap measure.

The people in China have no real idea what is going on. I just had a buyer on ebay from China. I told her I hoped she was safe from the virus and she responded, Oh you know about our virus. I thought cripes, she has no idea what is happening. I told her everyone knows but I wouldn't say anything else because I didn't want her to get in trouble. She is in Shanghai and believes that she is safe..............

This is not a panic post but if you are one of those people that believes in stocking up, I suggest that you do it now. If it comes to a point where people think they need to get extra supplies and food there will be mass chaos. You know what the supermarkets look like when a snowstorm is coming and people think they may be locked in for a few days? multiply that by 1,000. Not only will there be thousands upon thousands of people but you will be exposed to everyone in the country. Now would be the time to calmly and quietly get things you think you may need.

omg please, toilet paper is made in the USA. we won't run out!

Delta is reaching out to Hawaii-Japan passengers after coronavirus scare

Delta Air Lines said today it is “proactively reaching out” to its passengers who recently traveled on one of its flights between Honolulu and Nagoya, Japan, after it became aware that two passengers on that flight are being reportedly treated for the novel coronavirus.

“We are communicating with the appropriate public health officials, including U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and local Japanese authorities. The health and safety of our customers and crews is our top priority, and in cooperation with Japanese health officials, we are proactively reaching out to customers who were onboard that flight as well as taking the necessary steps to ensure the safety of our customers and crew."

R295, I'm keeping my options open just in case.

I think the cytokine storm is what kills all these young doctors on reinfection. They probably didn't even know they had been infected as 80% of the patients are asymptomatic.

I have information to add, whether you believe it or not is up to you. My husband is the epi I spoke of who runs thee second largest country going on 17 years. Ever since 9/11 75% of his job has been Public Health Preparedness- running drills for what the hell would happen if Ebola came our way, Coordinating Emergency response to terrorist releasing some sort of bio-weapon. Ever since this shit came out I've been hounding him for the real story- what Really happened in China and what the Fuck our Government is going to do about it- not out of any sense of civic duty- I won't lie, but because we have two kids who I'd do anything for. Well, up to this morning he wouldn't say jack shit. Just that he had his regular conference calls with the CDC, that " Everything was under Control" and that he was keeping an eye on a few possible cases of the Wuhan flu. So I threw the biggest shit fit I've had in years, and said if he didn't give a damn about me, he damn well should about our kids and to give me SOMETHING to work with. I'm not stupid, I also have my M.P.H. though I gave it up because our one son has autism and I didn't fucking believe a word out of the CDC's mouth, not to mention all the information I read here and elsewhere on-line. So he slumped. Told me they expect 1 in 4 to get it. 2-3% to die. I asked him would the quarenteens happen like in China and that's what the " military encampments" were for. No, he said- that's for the people coming off the planes, ships, travelling from other parts. Well then, where the fuck do all the sick people in our area go when the Local ICU's fill up? Jesus- I swear this is true-he said ,"Once local medical facilities hit maximum there's no choice but to go home and self quarenteen.". But what if those folks need vents?" I asked "It's the one event I never dreamed we'd have to actualize- Mass fatalities. Once we hit. 100 Deaths we roll out Mass Fatalities and start Mass burial Protocol."

I can't look at him anymore and I'm locked in my bedroom. Jesus.

Who the fuck are you?

Largest in what R299? Population, land, economy?

r299, I don't mean to troll, but you have an MPH and don't know how to spell 'quarantine'?

[quote]I also have my M.P.H.

“Quarenteens,” you say?

Ummm yeah I think they’re are a lot of aspiring Stephen Kings writing these histrionic op-Ed’s for Reddit.

What's an epi?

Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency.

Elephant Protection Initiative, which would explain a lot.

I can’t believe people are panicking over toilet paper. You can wash your ass.

^ in fact, you SHOULD wash your ass. No toilet paper needed.

R308, R309, You're assuming everyone has a guaranteed supply of clean running water and the time to wash and dry every time you need to pee. That's a false assumption, especially if you're in a crowded working environment. Americans typically don't have bidets.

R294, Prepping that is stocking up on regularly needed supplies when they're on sale is always a good idea even if you don't face any type of emergency situation. Can never understand those waiting in very long lines right before a predicted weather disaster. Don't you have extra food on hand for a couple of weeks?

Wish I knew if there were any non-Asians on the luxury cruises who got very sick. Statistics so far make it seem to be hitting mostly Asian men. Also wish I knew if they were smokers and/or had underlying health conditions.

[quote]A complete idiot of a woman at my workplace has a husband who's a pilot (no idea the airline), had recently did a "China run" and now is sick with a "cold".

"Had recently did."

M.P.H. Troll's oeuvre is breathtaking.

another reason to stock up is because prices are going to skyrocket. If things have to be moved back to the US such as packaging, etc. the prices will go up. Also in about a month when things need restocked in stores and the items have come from China I personally have no desire to handle anything currently coming from China.

R310 pee? Who uses toilet paper after peeing? Are you a woman?

If there’s no running water the least of your concern would be your ass.

No need for a bidet to wash your ass.

No time for drying? There are towels..

You can get spray attachments for toilets that will serve the function of a bidet. In Indonesia, they use cups of water. Some Japanese use spray bottles.

It actually all works--better than toilet paper. The people who use water think we're the dirty ones.

As for food, I'm surprised by the stats that say people only have three days worth. A large bag of rice and dried beans would be cheap and easy to store.

There are laws against price gouging

Still doesn't stop people R316.

R313, Agreed. A friend in a small town in AR dependent on Walmart said a bag of California Cuties (mandarins) has almost doubled in price.

Other Walmart dependent shoppers in small towns around the US are saying store shelves are unusually empty. Plus they're trying to save money by using self-checkout hurting the elderly who need part-time jobs. Bad news.

Chinese tourism is being severely felt in Europe.

1st African to get Wu Flu in China recovers, crediting his genetic makeup. Article explains what the doctors used to help him get well.

R282 For the protection of the greater population - YES.

If this takes off and they can't control it the mortality rate at just 2% = 140 million people dead. Also, we still don't know if people that have been infected, suffer minor illness are then protected from the virus or not which makes the situation even more diabolical as rather than just new people falling ill with the virus you could also have people who have recovered but no have immunity and get sick again, potentially worse than their mild first time.

A $35 b'day attachment on Amazon is a good deal whether we all kwarenteen and get impargo'd or not.

The term you're looking for, R321, is "cytokine storm", something that is triggered when you get a second infection with the Coronavirus. It's a phenomenon that been talked about elsewhere in these threads, including by the Geneticist in his posts at R243 & R244. There is no immunity to reinfection after catching the virus once and the cytokine storm has a very high mortality. Some say as much as 60%! That is the most terrifying aspect to this disease.

Just a note.

They evacuated the American cruise ship passengers back to the US (confining them to a quarantine facility at a military base) on a cargo plane. There were 44 of them, I think. 14 of the 44 tested positive when they got on the plane. So 1/3.

They put those 14 people in the rear of the plane and took off anyway.

What will be interesting will be to see what happens in the next three weeks.

I would be willing to bet that a significant number of those remaining 30 uninfected passengers will convert to positive status. Because the simple fact of the matter is that on a 17 hour flight on a plane, where the air is recirculated, I would expect 100% of the people on that plane to have been infected.

R324, How about the estimated 20,000 annual sexual tourists who enjoy Spring Break parties, Full Moon Festival in Thailand, and Asian and Caribbean Island fun?

Slow clap for the Quaranteen Queen.

Meanwhile, back in the real world: Russian tourists returned from China were confined to hospital quarantine. A few broke out and roamed around before being caught and returned. One woman refuses to return and has gone to court, challenging the quarantine. No one is wearing face masks in the court.

Geneticist here. This is pretty amazing. It may be too soon to be looking to place blame (we have to control the problem before we prosecute criminal negligence, or worse), but this article is powerful. Given the lack of credibility of the CCP, I think this article is reasonable. And its timing is also reasonable, given that this Prof. Zhengli is likely to disappear before responsibility has been reckoned.

On January 24, 2020, the Wuhan Institute of Virology was shown on Google maps at its real location of 8.6 miles from the wet market. On January 27, 2020 (so 3 days later), Google maps said the Institute of Virology was actually 15 miles SOUTH of its real location, in the middle of a dense forest. Why? That spurred this author to look into the background of the director of the Wuhan Institute or Virology (who has been considered at the root of all of this, all along).

From the attached article (I have included only the questions that have not been answered in recent studies. The author gets a little snarky and starts making sardonic remarks, which I have not included in this summary. I was initially going to list all of the relevant questions raised, but you can look at the paper yourselves to see the logical flow. I have decided to include only the most controversial charges.

"So we are left with the following pressing, unanswered questions about Prof. Zhengli, (the director of the BSL-4 lab at the Wuhan Institute of Virology) the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, and the Coronavirus 2019-nCoV outbreak in Wuhan:

1. Why are the Chinese authorities seemingly ignoring the Wuhan Institute Virology’s contemporaneous coronavirus study (culminating in a Dec. 11, 2019 report, published the day before the report of the outbreak) conducted at the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory, located just 8.6 miles distant from the claimed epicenter of pandemic origin, Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market? Why is the media not reporting this?

2. Has any formal investigation been launched into any role the Wuhan Institute of Virology (and specifically, its Classification P4 Biosafety Laboratory) may have played in the pandemic outbreak?

Part 2: 3. Since the original technology for viral confinement at the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory was developed in France, and since most of its actual, functional equipment was imported from France — has the laboratory received ongoing certification inspections from French officials, given its lengthy, ongoing activities using Class 4 pathogens (P4) — the most virulent viruses that pose the highest risk of aerosol-transmitted person-to-person infections? If so, where are the certification test results? Has the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory been regularly inspected and audited by Chinese government health officials, especially by Li Bin, minister of the National Health and Family Planning Commission? If so, where are the inspection and audit results?

4. At any time did Prof. Zhengli Shi — who simultaneously currently holds the multiple titles of Senior Scientist and Principal Investigator, Director of the Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases, Director of BSL-3 Labatory, Director of the Committee of Biosafety, Director of Chinese Academy Sciences (CAS) Key Laboratory of Special Pathogens and Biosafety, and Vice Director of BSL-4 Laboratory at Wuhan Institute of Virology, CAS — ever work directly or indirectly for the CCP military services or military intelligence community?

5. Why did Prof. Zhengli receive funding from U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency (the agency which deals specifically with Weapons of Mass Destruction), the U.S. Biological Defense Research Directorate of the Naval Medical Research Center, and the Department of Atomic of the Government of India? (there was a laundry list of such other funding that I haven't included).

6. When Prof. Zhengli received a visa to the United States to present at the Cell Symposium: Emerging and Re-emerging Viruses 2017 conference in Arlington, Virginia, did she visit the Pentagon or meet with Pentagon officials, since it was less than a mile away? (there was a laundry list of trips to other national labs and military sites that I have not included)

7. Prof. Zhengli’s C.V. indicates she received a visa to the United States to present at the U.S.-China Dialogue on the Challenges of Emerging Infections, Laboratory Safety and Global Health Security conference on January 17, 2018, in Galveston, Texas. However, such a conference appears to not have existed. For what purpose did she really come to Galveston — perhaps to visit the Galveston National Laboratory, a high security National Biocontainment Laboratory housing several Biosafety Level 4 research laboratories, one of the only 15 biosecurity Level 4 facilities in the United States and the largest one in the world located on an academic campus? Was this apparently imaginary conference merely a ruse for a surreptitious rendezvous? She has made myriad such trips to BSL-4 facilities in the US.

8. Prof. Zhengli recently (January 23, 2020) claimed to know very little about the latest epidemic outbreak, including basic biology, animal source, or any specific treatment, and indicated she doesn’t know if ACE2 targeting drugs could treat Coronavirus 2019-nCoV infected victims.

The paper makes a pretty compelling circumstantial case for the possibility they WERE weaponizing viruses at the Wuhan lab and elsewhere, had big money backing from the American military, The Indian military, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Broad Institute, the WHO... That the viruses accidentally released (and even the accidentally is conjecture at this point) and were genetically edited. That the world's intelligence agencies were aware of this work (the article refers to an Israeli spy who provides background information).

I will leave the conspiracy theories to others here. But the coincidences are beginning to pile up.

My head feels like it’s about to explode.

No announcement yet about Shen Yun cancelling their NY engagement scheduled for next month but I remain hopeful.

Grab your comfiest cradling mug and curl up as tightly as you can, r329, because I have terrible news for you:

Shen Yun is based in New York, dear. The performers are already there, just waiting to strike.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE SHEN YUN IS COMING FROM INSIDE YOUR HOUSE!

R329 I thought the ShenYun troop is based in New York and not from China.

The dance/acrobatic production is a front for the Falun Gong which is viewed by Beijing as the propaganda wing of a malevolent and dangerous anti society cult.

Oh...and they're anti gay as well.

R330 and R331:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I hate to interrupt the mounting Shen Yun panic, but just wanted to re-emphasize: Our military paid for the BSL-4 incompetence in Wuhan.

Ask yourselves why.

I find it hard to believe that we’re avoiding cases here in NY. How is that possible when we have three major international airports within ten miles of each other and a gigantic port system?

Well, I bet there will be tons of cancelled tickets for Shen Yun. Too many Nervous Nellies apprehensive about sitting next to or near a Chinese person who might cough or sneeze.

R535, I'm already seeing heavy advertising on YouTube for Shen Yun.

Isn't this a Chinese govt lab? Why the fuck would the US military fund this? C'mon!!!

They are not on friendly terms and they have refused all offers of help from CDC.

If you told me the Chinese govt did this...to silence the Hong Kong protesters...I may believe you.

R333 that is a Russian op to say that the US had anything to do with this virus. You should reconsider your browsing.

NY Times is reporting that COVID-19 is 20 times more deadly than the flu. Information comes from the first big number-crunching of the first 44,000 documented cases in China. Percentage goes up with age (same with the flu) with the mortality rate hitting 14 percent with the 80+ crowd.

Overall, the mortality rate for the flu in the US is 0.1 percent, COVID-19 mortality rate is 2.3 percent in China. FYI, the mortality rate for the Spanish Flu in 1919 was 2.5 percent.

The couple who were vlogging from the Diamond Princess (and demanding rescue from the British government) have now tested positive. That ship really was a petri dish. Their latest YouTube said they were fine, but a FB update afterwards said they were positive.

Oh, now he's saying it's a set-up and he's not going to a hospital, but a hospice. He doesn't think he's sick.

Hmmm, sounds like he's sick, just in the 80 percent who has a mild case.

R340 Thanks for the update. Can't read the article due to the pay wall and I've already used my New York Times free limit.

They (the WHO, medical professionals, etc) seem to know little more about the virus than they did one month ago.

Deaths in China outside of Wuhan remain low and Wuhan being the epicentre of the crisis is taking the full brunt of it. But one cannot believe any figures that the Chinese are releasing. They have shown over the last month that they did learn a things about transparency after the SARS debacle.

Just how bad this virus is will be told in relation to how it unfolds outside of China. The Singapore & Japanese numbers are very concerning as they seem to have lost the ability to track the recent movements of some infected people. It's only a matter of time when clusters stage to emerge in more countries. This isn't looking good.

Does anyone have a link for the reinfection angle? This has been a very interesting few threads.

Here is a GREAT article covering all the cases in Singapore. As we all know Singapore is a highly organised country so this is a really interesting read of each person who has caught the virus and their movements and if where they fit it with others.

Worth noting that of the 77 cases 4 people are in a serious condition. What is disturbing about those figures if this virus takes off 4 will becomes thousands and no countries medical facilities could cope with those numbers.

What happens in Singapore and Japan (not counting those on the cruise ship) are what to really take a long hard look at more so than China.

Geneticist, I have enjoyed your posts but am beginning to think you are taking the piss. Citing not only well-known nutjob Steve Bannon but professional disaster blogger Chris Martenson does not do your conspracy speculations any credit. If you know your science then explain how this virus is more dangerous than SARS, if it actually is more lethal. Saying the virus has been "weaponised"---Jesus I hate that word---is spurious and ignores the fact of the conditions in the so-called wet markets. They are stupidly medieval but whether the virus originated in the markets or out of a lab, I really believe stupidity is involved.

The death rate from the virus is high in China because (for some reason) they weren't equipped to handle an epidemic even after the SARS epidemic 17 years ago. Not enough beds or medical staff to treat sick people. Is that being considered in the death rate for the virus?

R345, Not the geneticist, but while SARS is more lethal (10 percent mortality rate), COVID-19 looks to be a lot more contagious. SARS requires close contact, COVID-19 doesn't seem to. The other big problem with COVID-19 is the long latency period where people are contagious, but asymptomatic.

The SARS epidemic maxed out at 8,000 cases. COVID-19 is now over 70,000--and that's just the confirmed cases. Everyone pretty much assumes that there's way more out there.

The other possible big issue with COVID-19 is that reinfection may send the patient's immune system into kind of a hyperdrive--i.e. a "cytokine storm"--which is frequently lethal. I don't know whether this has actually been confirmed, but there's some speculation that that's what led to the death of the doctor who first went public about the disease and the hospital director in Wuhan whose death was announced to day.

By the way, there's nothing I've seen that marks this as an engineered bioweapon. Crappy diseases develop all the time--particularly in Asia and Africa.

R347 Its almost certain that some medical staff in Wuhan and existing patients with other aliments in the hospitals and well as earlier coronavirus cases got exposed to the virus over and over and over again. That cannot be a good thing. At this point they also have no idea how long people who have recovered from the virus will remain, if at all, immune to another helping of it.

My understanding is that the four common coronavirus' that circulate around the world's population causing generally just annoying minor conditions and have done so for decades do not leave anybody with lasting immunity which is why people have various versions of the common cold throughout their entire lives. The immunity for them last anything from a few weeks to a few years at most.

Japan seems rather flippant in their attitude towards the virus. More cases are popping up every day in people who have no connection to infected people or who have been to China. The Government appear to behaving like it's a 'fait de complies' though apparently people are really scarred and lots are asking for testing but the Government simply does have enough to test anyone unless it is absolutely necessary (like the Cruise ship).

It IS a fait accompli. All they're doing is stalling so they can try to come up with a defense against the virus. It's most likely going to be with us for the foreseeable future.

We all need to get down on our knees and pray!

R333 i assumed that they were merely outsourcing bioweapon development. The chinese are cheaper and less ethical so they can get certin result faster. Plus, if the containment of the bioweapon fail, it will not be americans to face the meltdown

I thought the death rate from Spanish Flu was 3-6%?

Geneticist, I am concerned someone may be impersonating you to gain your credibility. Please consider authenticating. And if that is you, just know I can get freaked out and my mind can go to dark places, but you have to pull yourself back and critically examine information against what you know.

For instance misinformation to cause panic is often phrased in the following way:

Of course she’s abusing her children, she makes them bathe regularly and wear clothes to school. What is she hiding?

So when I read of course they were engineering a bioweapon they had lots of funding from The Broad Institute (Harvard by another name fwiw), the Gates Foundation, etc. I think well so does NEIDL, so does the BSL3 I toured. You get grants to pay for the research and you do a lot of research in a virology institute if you are any good. And specifically about the US military funding, I know that the military (over 100 funding components!) is very interested in detecting and protecting against biowarfare AND also keeping our troops safe against naturally occurring pandemics. And a lot of naturally occurring pandemics come from China. So I’d be shocked if there weren’t DTRA (threat reduction!) sub awards the only BSL4 in China. So I think that article is clearly trying to provoke fear through disinformation. And I punch and delete.

R352 So much about the Spanish flu still remains very vague. Total worldwide deaths are somewhere between 40 and 100 million. Morality somewhere between 3 to 6% though some people say lower and some even say higher.

The problem was record keeping wasn't that good back particularly in lost of third world countries then and WW1 didn't help either.

Scientist still aren't even sure where the virus emerged. China? France? the US? Spain (unlikely)?

Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said the public should start focusing on COVID-19 cases outside of China when considering the global risk. He said Japan appears to be “on the cusp of an outbreak” with 59 confirmed cases and one death so far. “If you start to see this become an epidemic in other nations ... that’s going to be extremely worrisome that we’re not going to control this globally,” Gottlieb said.

The obsession with this virus being human engineered is just arrogance. We think that we will be the drivers of our own demise. The fact is, what will most likely take the human species down will come from nature, not us.

Fait de complies.

[quote]The fact is, what will most likely take the human species down will come from nature, not us.

One of the multitude of reasons I love nature.

R355 you sound like a climate change denier.

That hospital director who died in China was only 51! RIP!

Just heard on MSNBC the Chinese are saying the coronavirus is 20 times more deadly than the flu.

Syria probably developed the virus and Trump bought it and sent it over to China. There are a few, lowlife leaders who would do it and Trump is fool enough to do something this horrible.

The Chinese would say that, they have shitty healthcare. Easier to blame the virus than their lack of health infrastructure and preparation.

Syria probably developed the virus and Trump bought it and sent it over to China. There are a few, lowlife leaders who would do it and Trump is fool enough to do something this horrible.

R352 please stop spreading Russian propaganda. Be smart.

R362's Russian propaganda hacked my post. ^

CNN--British prime minister and China's president talked about coronavirus today

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson offered his sympathies to those affected by the coronavrus outbreak in China, in a phone call with the Chinese President Xi Jinping today.

President Xi thanked the UK for its support and donations of vital medical equipment, according to a readout by Downing Street.

"The Prime Minister and President agreed on the importance of the UK-China relationship and resolved to work together across a range of issues including strengthening the economic partnership, to benefit the people of both China and the UK. Ahead of COP26 in Glasgow and the Convention on Biological Diversity Summit in China, the two leaders resolved to work closely together on the issue of climate change. They agreed that biodiversity and climate change are two sides of the same coin and must be addressed in tandem if we’re to protect the planet for future generations.".

R355, there is literal hiv segment dna bakes in there. Plus the state run media in Beijing pretty much confirmed the bsl 4 lab involvement. Open your bloody eyes.

Lol mmkay R358. And you sound like a conspiracy theory Pizzagate Russian bot nutbag.

100% NOT TRUE R367. Blocked.

Conspiracy theorists exist because they think that believing an overarching enemy like “the man” will give them a modicum of understanding and control over their sad, desperate trailer park dwelling lives. Of course, DL is rife with these sorts since it’s filled with mentally ill basement bound loons. It’s nearly impossible to get through threads like these having to edit out their ridiculous assumptions and outright lies. It’s exhausting. I mean, they put forward literal reddit fiction as fact for fuck’s sake. It’s like sitting next to a verbal diarrhea spewing Trump.

R368 disagreeing with you doesn't mean I believe the opposite of what you said is true, genius. Your argument is so broad and far-reaching it renders it incoherent. And it's similar to climate change deniers who say humankind can't have a big impact on the climate.

r338 I said that almost 3 weeks ago that I believed that was what happened.

Is it not alarming that 7 health care workers have died? Health care workers are typically younger and healthy, correct? Is their any evidence that reinfection is happening? China's draconian measures, and WHO saying not much risk outside of china, mild for most!!!! make people suspicious.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

A geneticist, though helpful as he/she is isn't going to have information specific to what's going on in the medical side of things. Are there any infectious disease specialist or people who work in infectious diseases who either does research or treats patients? I once had to go to an ID doctor to treat TB that I had become infected with when I did volunteer work in Guatemala right after college. I didn't even know I was infected, I was found to have been exposed after I told my GP that I'd just come back from a trip there months before, and she said why not do a test just to be safe. Thankfully I was treated after being put on some strong meds that nearly destroyed in liver in the process. Thank god there's a cure for TB. But yeah, ID doctors treat people for all sorts of stuff and they work closely with the CDC, the specialist that I had seen he was also a medical Ph.D so he did research too.

I always wonder about the pets being left behind in these situations. This video shows a kind soul in Wuhan who's rescuing pets separated from their owners. Not all Chinese are bad or hate animals.

If it hasn't been submitted before, I humbly submit, "We won't get FLUed again" as a thread title.

R364 my apologies if my post at 352 wasn’t written clearly enough. I intended to be refuting the Russian panic propaganda by pointing out that things being proffered as suspicious proof were standard, benign activities.

This is virus not and never was a bioweapon.

Ah shit. I didn't even see the thread title.

ElederLez

Do you think the virus was edited? Do you think it came from the lab? I read a paper that said it didn't, and I belive it was from virology -

r378, We did.

Our educational system does such a poor job of teaching science and reason, that now we have loonies on both Left and Right espousing conspiracy theories as facts. Same thing here with this outbreak. Scientists and the few studies and articles that specifically address the idea have conclusively said no, the virus did not originated as a biological weapon. There are other supporting evidence too. The Chinese are not dumb enough to engineer a viral bioweapon that only kills around 2% of those infected. Furthermore, an actual bioweapon would spread in faster, kill faster, and in a targeted manner. The COVID-19 virus, in both genetic sequencing and clinically manifested outcomes, fit in more with naturally evolved virus in the Coronavirus family. Asshats on Fox News like that idiot Republican senator spouting conspiracy theories only feed into the stupidity of people on both Left and Right.

[quote]Easier to blame the virus than their lack of health infrastructure and preparation.

Easier to blame the virus than their lack of health infrastructure and preparation AND menu selections, r362.

R382 Do your homework before being a racist.

Lighten up, r383. This topic is depressing enough.

The virus was not engineered and there is no HIV “baked in” you fucking lunatics. Go back to your holes and STAY THERE.

Is anyone in for a batburger?

R375, What a wonderful man. Videos of the horrific destruction of loving, beautiful pets of Wuhan have been circulating on the internet for weeks.

This is very scary.

R377 that was a typo, meant r362 not r352.

CNN-"Chilling implications" for US medical supplies made in China during coronavirus, health official says

With a majority of some US medical supplies coming from or originating in China, coronavirus could hold "chilling implications" by hindering that pipeline, according to Robert P. Kadlec, assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the US Department of Health and Human Services.

About timing: The US might not see the impacts just yet because American buyers typically stock up before Chinese factories slow down during the Lunar New Year, Kadlec added.

"The distributors and suppliers feel like right now they're okay," he said at a briefing today held by the Council on Foreign Relations. "How this plays out longer term is still a matter of concern."

These concerns extend not just to pharmaceuticals but also to other materials like face masks, which are frequently manufactured in China. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend the use of face masks for the general American public. By buying them up in large quantities, Kadlec warned that Americans might leave fewer for some people who really need them — namely, health care workers.

Kadlec said, "We probably need to change the way we do business in these areas because of the significant risks and vulnerabilities that are being highlighted by this event." He added that the solution requires a whole-government approach in cooperation with the private — "It's everybody."

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, agreed, saying, "We can't see them crash. If they crash, we have a problem."

CNN: Numbers suggesting death rates from coronavirus may be higher inside Wuhan and lower elsewhere may reflect "severe" pressure on the health care system there, Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO's Health Emergencies Programme, told reporters Tuesday.

Ryan was responding to a report published Monday by scientists with the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, showing that patient outcomes in Hubei province are a key driver of the 2.3% case fatality rate they calculated. In Hubei, that number is 2.9%; in other Chinese provinces, that number is 0.4%.

The upside, Ryan added, is that "the lessons that have been learned in Hubei and Wuhan are being applied elsewhere."

Mark my words, very soon America and other countries will start opening internment, or "quarantine" camps for Chinese-Americans, Chinese immigrants, and anyone of Chinese heritage or related to anybody of Chinese heritage. It will be bigger than the Japanese internment camps of WWII.

Good. Anything to get rid of the little buggers. Gotta start somewhere.

R392, what planet are you living on? You are fucking retarded.

I'm the one who summed up the NYT article, which had the 2.5 percent Spanish Flu mortality rate. I've also heard the 3-6 percent and I'll leave the real number to the experts.

But, basically, not as deadly as SARS, but way more deadly than the normal flu, within the ballpark of the Spanish flu.

Which is why half of China is in some level of quarantine.

Re: bits of HIV. My understanding is that lots of viruses share bits and pieces of DNA--doesn't mean that they've been bioengineered. Both the lab and the wet market seem like possible origins of the virus, but that doesn't mean it's a weapon, just that there safety/containment issues.

And, yes, as to what ElderLez said--since we've had multiple nasty diseases come out of Asia, it makes sense to fund research into understanding how those diseases occur so we can prevent them spreading and treat them.

The Government appear to behaving like it's a [i]'fait de complies'

Like I posted before about not trusting all medical journals online as not all are peer-reviewed, the source where a lot of conspiracy theorists got the information is pure bunk. These asshat Indian "researchers" self-published a paper that "confirmed" China engineered the COVID-19 viral RNA to contain fragments of HIV. The study and I label that loosely was not peer reviewed and again, self-published in a journal of questionable reputation.

I feel sorry for the Chinese take-out place in my neighborhood in NYC. Normally at 1 pm it would be packed with construction workers and residents of the apartments down the block but it was empty today except for me and a little lady who just wanted egg drop soup. The elderly owner was very sweet to me and seemed genuinely grateful to have me as a customer.

R398 Might just be because of the rain.

Hi R379, my view on this hasn’t changed at this point.

I think the virus is most likely a Mother Nature solo effort.

But I think it is possible that it was the result of an accidental release of an engineered (for the purpose of research to protect health, not hurt it) virus. In that case this virus could be the engineered version or an engineered featuring Mother Nature jam.

Part of the problem I think is that biomedical research ethics and culture under the communist party in China are just different so when I see publications that say it can’t be engineered because we haven’t seen anything published that looks like this; well they don’t always publish over there. Maybe that’s because they don’t value transparency. Maybe it is because of a dysfunctional publish or perish ethos in the US. I guess that would depend on your POV. But I digress.

I am so going for Chinese take out for lunch tomorrow.

R399, it hasn’t started raining here yet and even when it does it’s still packed there at 1 pm.

Here’s something somewhat related, in the UK:

Oh Christ the Mark-My-Words Troll hath returned!

CNN-Global death toll for coronavirus exceeds 2,000

More than 2,000 people have died from coronavirus across the globe, according to the latest figures released Tuesday.

The Hubei health authority reported that 132 more people died of the coronavirus in Hubei province on Tuesday, raising the death toll in the epicenter since the beginning of the coronavirus outbreak to 1,921.

The Hubei report brings the total number of deaths in mainland China to at least 2,000, and the global death toll to at least 2,005. There have been five deaths reported outside of mainland China with one death in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines and France.

The global number of confirmed coronavirus cases now exceeds 75,121, with the majority of cases in mainland China.

China’s National Health Commission is expected to release numbers for all of China’s provinces later.

Geneticist: I love your posts. But the next time you quote a long segment from a journal article or study, do you mind including the source link? Thanks.

[quote]Go back to your holes

Pics please.

CNBC: Investment firm Raymond James said today that following conversations with government officials and academics about the coronavirus, it believes the “worst is yet to come” and that the “market is underappreciating the potential dangers and what the key government leaders on the virus are saying.”

The firm said it has been “receiving questions on whether or not this will be a ‘Chernobyl-like’ event for China — the comparison being the impact of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant disaster on the fall of the Soviet Union.”

R241. If that is indeed true, then I have no doubt this was a "homemade" solution to eliminate the Hong Kong protestors.

And yes, the markets are absolutely underestimating the impact of this, however it will be felt soon enough.

Now to the above person who asked why New York has not had any cases (yet, that we know of) my theory is the residents if that city were educated and therefore far less likely to move to New York City. I mean who here in NYC ever heard of the Wuhan province? The largest amount, by far, of Chinese here in New York are from the Fukien Province. The 2 societies just don't meet. My entire Brooklyn neighborhood- which literally is where the 2001 Odyessy of Saturday Night Live once thrived - is now filled with these very-hard working immigrants. (My Asian neighbor of 40 + years calls them "the peasants" of China.)

This has nothing to do with who does or doesn't move to New York R407. We are talking about tourist that have been in the area or exposed to the virus coming to the United States. Or people in countries affected coming to the United States and not even aware they are infected.

Experts ponder why cruise ship quarantine failed in Japan

Gee I dunno, experts...could it be because of THIS?

[quote] The quarantine was largely for passengers because crew members kept sharing double rooms and continued to serve guests by delivering food, letters, towels and amenities, and entering passenger cabins for cleaning. Crew members also ate in groups in a crew mess hall. “Unlike passengers, crew members share their rooms, they share food, and that’s why some of them are infected even after the quarantine started,” said Shigeru Omi, a former regional director for the World Health Organization.

I know r408. And I am saying there were no tourists or family members from that area coming to NYC during the time period. Hence. No. Infections.

Considering the incubation period R410 we don't know if someone with the virus has or has not arrived in New York. I posted upthread about a call to a Dr. where the caller is stating there are cases in New York that are not being reported.

we been vaccinating our dogs for corona since the 70s.....did this virus jump the species or is it a new strain...I googlesd but didnt find the answer

It's all a conspiracy. This is Budweiser's attempt to take down Corona.

There has been a new directive. Starting this week and thereafter until further notice, we're testing suspected flu cases for the COVID-19 virus. We've already received directives detailing the indications and procedures, and it's part of the CDC's larger surveillance of the virus as preventative measures of containment and to better assess factors related to virulence. Many infected individuals don't become symptomatic or ill enough to warrant testing or intense medical management. The CDC is implementing this new surveillance in 5 cities where there exist labs already testing a plethora of viruses including influenza. Preventative measures identify potential cluster cases and individual cases that may have fallen through usual surveillance.

Americans are still at low risk for exposure to the COVID-19 virus. The CDC has more stringent recommendations for infection control in the healthcare setting than The WHO. The CDC recommends standard, contact, and airborne precautions with eye protection when coming in contact with PUI (persons under investigation e.g. patients suspected of having the virus).. Suspected patient should wear a mask and be inside private room during examination. PUI will be tested for other respiratory pathogens,, with collection of specimens to test for COVID-19 from the upper respiratory tract. Testing for COVID-19 will be done with PCR (RT-PCR) at CDC-qualified state labs. It tests for the presence of viral RNA fragments in patient specimens. Tests are distributed to California and other states by the CDC. Testing is done just like other viral PCR tests, via nasopharyngeal and oropharyngeal swab and if possible the lower respiratory tract (sputum, tracheal aspirate, or bronchoalveolar lavage). Additional specimens including stool and urine can also be collected on a case by case basis. The WHO is still at this time recommending standard, contact, and droplet precautions, with airborne precautions being added during procedures that may aerosolize droplets. These procedures include intubation, tracheostomy, bronchoscopy, and performing CPR, just to name some that come to my mind. I can vouch for how easily it is for microparticles to be aerosolized especially with invasive procedures. We joke about how we've been exposed to shitloads of pathogens and likely developed partial immunity to them, but that if we get exposed to another pathogen it'll be the end of us.

As for reinfection, so far there is no evidence that is occurring though it is a possibility as is the case with any viruses. For instance many don't know that you can get reinfected with HIV, it's the same thing. However, past exposure to the same virus may confer a degree of protective attenuation, even if the virus has mutated. This is why even if you get the flu even after having had the flu shot, you don't tend to get as sick if you didn't receive the flu shot. There appears to be some protection from fulminant illness theoretically speaking. But it's better to prevent reinfection if possible.

Foreign pathogen activates immune response. Humoral immunity and cell-mediated immunity work in tandem to keep us from dying from even the common cold. Rarely people with dysfunctional immune system have worsening course of illness due to poor immune response or over-expression of genes and rampant overproduction of immune response mediators. These latter two factors figure prominently in multiple organ dysfunction syndrome (MODS). These are the patients in the ICU with MODS after contracting fulminant disease such as pneumonia. Our concern in healthcare is having enough ICU beds to treat patients who require higher level of care. Right now I can guarantee that every ICU in every hospital has patients with pneumonia due to complications of the flu. Just a tiny uptick in high acuity COVID-19 patients would render it a horror scenario. Whoever gets elected this year needs to address shortage of patient beds, particularly in places like California and Texas where there are many immigrant populations not being officially counted in the census. God forbid public health and statewide healthcare funding get cut instead of increased.

In this world of Wokeness? Riiiight.

I can't wait for the Wuf-flu "gifting" parties!!!

R414 my understanding is that the COVID-19 test will only be run after the flu result comes back negative. Is that your understanding as well? Or are you hearing parallel tests?

Any comments on how filthy public places and public facing business are these days?

This is not a good combination.

Is it me or does it seem like the CDC or whoever is not really on top of things?

Seems like a disorganized mess.

Wow, lots of good stuff on this thread with some sweet & sour sauce of conspiracy theories.

AFAIK, there aren't enough resources to test everyone who sniffles. Only people coming known clusters are tested in a serious way. Not the thermometer tap at some airports. (BTW, where has that thermometer been?)

Hospitals don't have sufficient beds if we reach pandemic levels and everyone wants to get in. The hospitals themselves become disease vectors.

Despite all the furrowed brows, concerned headshakes, and serious words from the CDC, the plan is to let it burn itself out. COVID-19 produces mild symptoms in the majority of cases.

The best stats right now for the US are the seasonal flu statistics. If those take an upward turn, you can assume COVID-19 is to blame.

Because some of you asked where is the safest place to avoid getting infected, I researched it and found out it was Israel. They have been a few days ahead of everyone else on this since the beginning.

I thought it was already a bad flu season.

r422 Yes, it is.

I had the flu and seem to have gotten one of the awful souped up strains of a cold immediately after. Pray for me.

R421, Yes Israel immediately banned visitors from China and Israeli dual citizens who'd just returned from China after one woman was suspected of coming down with symptoms.

However many Israelis have been and will continue to travel to various parts of Asia which are now hotbeds for Wu Flu. How many went to Thailand for the Half Moon celebration or are sexual tourists? Potential problem spots.

Oddly this year they have been saying children, mostly unvaccinated by their parents, have been the most surprising flu victims. I wonder if some of the children's bodies can be retested to see if it was a coronavirus strain that killed them.

🙇 Now it's a much worse flu season, r422.

As the CoronaVirus spreads ( and you know it will ), will people avoid going to the polls?

I'm not all that familiar with absentee ballots, but can anyone get one? Might be a good idea this year. Besides, we don't want those "mature" candidates catching anything.

I wish the anti-vaxxers would go to China...this is the best time to prove us wrong!

💀 #CoronaFallout

R422, R427, Many have speculated that those getting seriously ill and/or dying of the flu have actually contracted Wu Flu. Doctors haven't been testing for it unless you recently returned from China.

Supply chains are FUCKED.

The impact of 760M people in quarantine can’t be underestimated.

If 80% of cases are mildly sick, and 16% need bed rest and fluids, and 0.8% need intensive care...we’re still going to have a problem since we only have enough hospital rooms for 0.3% of the population in the USA.

Medical supplies, technology, and automotive parts, are going to see major supply chain bottlenecks.

R432, Housing and building construction will ground to a halt as well since China supplies urgently needed parts. Expecting a Recession in 3. 2. 1.

Is autoimmune disease (a mild one like vitiligo, not a serious one like diabeetus or MS) an advantage or disadvantage?

I think the now-old farts from the Wu-Tang Clan should get back together and do Wu-Tang vs Wuhan PSAs for washing hands and not touching your face and coughing all over everything.

As I see it, this was caused either by people being assholes to animals in a market or people being assholes to animals in a lab.

R343 Some scientists have speculated that having an autoimmune disease may be an advantage. Their reasoning for this is that 2/3 of deaths are males compared to 1/3 of death being female.

Way more women suffer from autoimmune diseases and in this may hav e helped how their bodies fight off infections - their immune systems are used to doing it.

Other factors that may benefit women are they have high levels of estrogen and they smoke way less than men.

All these are purely hypothetical scenarios by the medical profession in trying to work out why there are more male than female deaths and this also needs to be looked at in the context of China (where 50 to 60% of males smoke compared to 2 to 3% of women).

Also, Chinese cities have way more air population than most big cities in Western countries - does that play a role? The sad realty is that none of these will be answered unless the virus spreads big time across the whole planet.

All these weeks later and not one case listed for the African continent, except for 1 case in Egypt.

Meanwhile the Australians on the Diamond Princess are coming back; one fellow tested positive just before they were to leave. Off to quarantine. Can you imagine?

R437 Given the shitty health conditions on cruise ships in general a bet a lot more will test positive in coming weeks. Most of them can expect a long stay in quarantine.

Must say I'm shocked that Japan has let a stack of people off that cruise ship and all making their way to Tokyo and I assume from there all over the world (except for the countries that have and/or are sending flight to pick up their citizens). Hopefully none of them are super spreaders.

With cases rising in Japan, Singapore and South Korea things are not looking good at all.

Given no country is really prepared for a pandemic this alarming.

Its lists countries readiness to deal with such an event.

The US is the most prepared? With all the cuts to the CDC and unfilled positions, it's still first?

Oh, crap.

R440 the spores are smaller than a N95 can filter...

Masks are useless. Only people who are feeling unwell should wear them because them may help with transmitting whatever they have.

I feel that with this release of cruise ship passengers into general population, this shitshow has just entered its second act.

They don’t really stop that either, R442.

CNN-Iran confirms first two coronavirus cases

Iran has confirmed its first two cases of coronavirus, the country’s health ministry announced Wednesday.

"In the past two days we came across several suspicious cases of possible coronavirus in Qom. As soon soon as we received the reports our identification teams for contagious diseases were dispatched to Qom," said health ministry spokesman Kianoosh Jahanpour in a statement.

"The suspicious cases were isolated according to protocol and medical samples taken. Several minutes ago the central laboratory confirmed that the result of the initial test of two of the suspect cases has come back positive for coronavirus," he added.

The teams for contagious disease control are in Qom, a city located about 150 kilometers (93 miles) south of Tehran, the statement adds.

cnn-Adidas says business activity in China has dropped 85% due to coronavirus

German sportswear giant Adidas released updated guidance Wednesday revealing its business activity in China has dropped 85% because of the novel coronavirus outbreak.

“Our business activity in Greater China has been around 85% below the prior year level since Chinese New Year on January 25,” said the company, adding that other markets such as Japan and South Korea have also seen a decline in traffic.

Adidas said their business in China performed strongly the first three weeks of the year, but since then there has been “a material negative impact” on operations due to the outbreak.

The company has shut down a significant number of stores – both own- and partner-operated – and has observed a pronounced traffic reduction within the remaining store fleet, according to the guidance.

Another big German sports firm, Puma, also warned warned about the impact of the virus on its bottom-line.

“After a good start into 2020, February has of course been negatively affected by the outbreak of COVID-19 [a name for the disease caused by the virus]. The business in China is currently heavily impacted due to the restrictions and safety measures implemented by the authorities," the company said.

"Business in other markets, especially in Asia, is suffering from lower numbers of Chinese tourists.”

Both Adidas and Puma said it is impossible to forecast the overall impact of the virus at this point in time.

CNN-One Westerdam passenger's "wild journey" to get home

Christina Kerby is a passenger from the Westerdam, the cruise ship that was stuck at sea for days as fears of the coronavirus grew and several ports refused permission for the vessel to dock -- even though no passenger had tested positive for the virus.

Kerby is now in a hotel in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, after Cambodia allowed the ship to dock, and waiting to hear if she and her mother will be able to get on a flight back home to the US.

""My husband and two kids are waiting for me and I miss them terribly and I want nothing more to be home," she told CNN in a Skype interview. "

"I’m a pragmatic person and I don’t want to rush things. I want those assurances along the way that it’s safe for me to travel," she said. "I have been doing my best to make the best of it. We are in a beautiful 5-star hotel in Cambodia -- there's not much to complain about!"

Throwing a spanner in the works is that on Saturday, one of the ship's passengers tested positive for the coronavirus during a stopover in Malaysia. The 83-year-old American woman had been on the first charter flight taking 143 Westerdam passengers to Malaysia, from where they could fly home.

Westerdam passengers booked to leave today through Vietnam were rejected at the airport and returned back to the hotel. Kerby said her mother had a flight booked through Malaysia but when she arrived at the airport was told all travel had been halted.

The uncertainty is mounting and there is concern the window for getting on a flight could be closing.

Kerby, who has been posting regular updates about life onboard the ship on her Twitter feed, is optimistic.

"My hope is that the news today of the negative test results might open some doors for us rather than close them," she said. "I am being cautiously optimistic that we are all healthy and I am pleased to have a health declaration saying I’ve tested negative for the virus. So I am trying to operate on facts here and hope for the best."

Cambodian health officials confirmed on Wednesday that 781 passengers from the Westerdam had tested negative for the novel coronavirus.

Kerby said that she is following CDC advice and is self-monitoring. She said passengers were allowed to leave the hotel freely and some people have been moving around and seeing the city.

Of her reception in Cambodia, after more than 10 days stuck at sea, Kerby said it was "phenomenal."

"Every Cambodian I’ve met has been warm and welcoming ... such gracious hosts and hospitality," she said.

She also said the Westerdam crew "are single handedly responsible for keeping our spirits up."

"They were going through this with us, they were facing the same fear. And I never once saw a crew member not smile, not greet me warmly, not share a joke," she said.

However, Kerby said she has faced stigma on social media and has been "exposed to a lot of hurtful comments" because "there is a perception and fear that I am contagious," she told CNN.

"None of us feel like our lives will ever be the same again. And it's actually a positive thing. It’s given us a new sense of community ... it's opened my eyes to other parts of the world that I never would have seen," she said.

CNN-Beijing expels three Wall Street Journal reporters over coronavirus opinion piece

The Chinese government announced Wednesday that it would revoke the press credentials of three Wall Street Journal reporters, the largest such expulsion of overseas media from the country in recent years.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said the expulsion was due to an opinion piece published by the US news organization on February 3, entitled "China is the real sick man of Asia," that criticized China's response to the novel coronavirus.

"The editors used such a racially discriminatory title, triggering indignation and condemnation among the Chinese people and the international community," Geng said. "Regrettably, what the WSJ has done so far is nothing but parrying and dodging its responsibility. It has neither issued an official apology nor informed us of what it plans to do with the persons involved. ... As such, it is decided that from today, the press cards of three WSJ journalists will be revoked."

The Wall Street Journal quickly published an article confirming the news, saying “Deputy Bureau Chief Josh Chin and reporter Chao Deng, both US nationals, as well as reporter Philip Wen, an Australian national, have been ordered to leave the country in five days,” citing Jonathan Cheng, the Journal’s China bureau chief.

Although the Chinese government has strict reporting restrictions on foreign media in the country, it is highly unusual for an international journalist to be expelled.

China changing definitions AGAIN.

[quote] China announced new changes to the case definition. Clinically-diagnosed cases will no longer be considered confirmed in Hubei; diagnostic testing will needed for confirmation.

R414/15 What is your field of work?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

King should be prosecuted for potentially endangering others in a health crisis.

[quote]Iran confirms first two coronavirus cases

Two people who were diagnosed with coronavirus in Iran have died, a state-run news agency has reported.

The IRNA news agency said the two victims were elderly Iranian citizens. Officials had confirmed the cases earlier on Wednesday.

since no one in Africa has gotten it except the one from Egypt does anyone know if Any black people have gotten it?

CNN- US health agency issues coronavirus-related travel advisory for Hong Kong

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a new travel advisory today for Hong Kong due to the coronavirus outbreak.

This is the only coronavirus-related travel advisory the agency has issued outside of mainland China.

The CDC advises travelers to “practice usual precautions,” in accordance with a “Watch - Level 1” notice of three possible levels.These precautions include avoiding contact with sick people and cleaning hands. The agency also advises people to seek medical advice if they have spent time in Hong Kong during the last two weeks and feel ill with fever or respiratory symptoms.

""At this time, CDC does not recommend canceling or postponing travel to Hong Kong,” the agency posted on its website on Wednesday. "

The agency currently lists mainland China as “Warning - Level 3” and advises travelers to “avoid nonessential travel.” The notice excludes Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan.

R418 Yes that's correct. To test all suspected flu patients would not be possible. We had patients who tested negative for the flu panel but did not have COVID-19 test done, this was over the weekend. However in those cases they were pediatric patients who screened negative for risk factors. That was the only case that I personally have dealt with that we were on the fence, should we or shouldn't we?

Patients infected with COVID-19 virus from Santa Clara were successfully treated at our health system. An infectious diseases MD at UCSF who also teaches at the medical school, has really stepped up in developing a quicker test than the one that the CDC is offering. Dr. Charles Chiu has developed a test that shows result in less than 2 hours.

According to Dr. Chiu, a single negative test doesn't necessarily rule out infection. That makes sense given that we do serial blood cultures on patients suspected of sepsis or being treated for sepsis to see if there is a response to treatment.

No one trusts any of the information China is putting out.

At this point, I don't trust the CDC either....did they make test kits that work yet???

R459 It's not that the test kits don't work, it's the nature of the viral beast so to speak. A point-in-time test that depends on measuring viral RNA fragments present in nasopharyngeal swabbed cells isn't going to be foolproof. ID specialists like Dr. Chiu, who is both a practicing clinician as well as a researcher, acknowledge that a single test may give false negatives for the reason that there may not be enough circulating fragments at that given time or with that given specimen.

We should refrain from conspiracies which now I see is veering into the "kits don't work" bullshit and don't trust CDC blah blah blah. So what should we do, have mass panic and don't go seek treatment and get tested? It's not perfect but what manmade entity is? We can only trust what we know and learn from past mistakes

R459 nice try, the CDC is actually quite good at what it does, despite Trump's defunding it lately.

Still haven't heard of any black people getting this...interesting.

The two infected in Iran died...I saw this news on twitter...how true...who knows?

Really haunting film about Wuhan by a film crew stranded there. The last minute alone should tug at your heart strings:

Goldman Sachs sounded the alarm on Wednesday to clients about a possible correction in the stock market, noting investors are underestimating how big of a risk the coronavirus really is.

“We believe the greater risk is that the impact of the coronavirus on earnings may well be underestimated in current stock prices, suggesting that the risks of a correction are high,” strategist Peter Oppenheimer wrote in a note.

Keep calm and listen to Dr. Mike

r464 's video- Wuhan is surprisingly attractive. Sort of reminds me of Buenos Aires.

r425

The Israelis have imposed flight restictions on both Macau and Thailand. Don't know about Israeli citizens, just people who have traveled to those two tourist destinations.

r423

The cuise passengers on the Diamond Princess were in closed environment; not the same as the COVID-19 is on it's own.

r440

The US is NOT prepared for a pandemic where everyone rushing to the hospitals. But, if COVID-19 is treated as another strain of the flu, it's going to be okay. Reason for the lack of alarm in many Western countries.

r453 The Iranians are not testing everyone who came in contact with those two patients to the best of my knowledge.

Well, so far it doesn’t seem to be spreading like wildfire outside of Wuhan and the cruise ships.

R456 I bow to your superior NIH ranking.

Also your Dr. Chiu is a national treasure.

Iran is not fucking around, they just closed the highways and schools in the city where the 2 deaths occurred.

zero sympathy for Iranian cunts, just like zero sympathy for chinese cunts, may I remind you that they have an annual dog eating festival where tens of thousands of dogs are consumed?!

Please tell me I have nothing to worry about

r473 most non-smokers outside China, with adequate health insurance, good personal hygiene, and cleaner air have nothing to worry about. Lethality is low. Americans still at greater risk to die by automotive accident or gunshot.

I think a useful statistic for Americans would be the results of people in countries other than China, because 1) we can trust those numbers more and 2) These countries overall are more developed, have access to improved healthcare and are taking the same quarantine measures as the US.

Per the below, there are 924 confirmed cases, with 3 deaths, outside of China, with a mortality rate (thus far) of 0.3% (which will likely rise once more people die, but I'm not sure how much). I'm not sure how many of those people were critically ill

Apple stock dipped 1.5% yesterday and recovered fully today. The dip was attributed to and announcement that the virus was affecting their supply chain and sales.

Uh oh. Deaths on the Dianond Princess.

The death toll of people one the cruise ship will give better numbers.

The speed of infection is terrifying. If they start dying at a 2% plus rate, the whole world should be terrified.

R478 Not really. It's not a good cross reference of general society given that 80% of passengers are over the age of 60.

R477 There have been more than 3 deaths outside China. One in France, was one but now 3 in Japan, 1 in The Philippines, 1 in Thailand. Also, one in Taiwan and one in Hong Kong. Plus supposedly two in Iran.

CNN-Temperature checks at US airports haven't caught a single case of coronavirus

One of the enduring images of the current coronavirus outbreak is a space-age looking thermometer pointed at an airplane passenger.

Eleven airports in the United States are using these temperature checks as part of expanded screening for novel coronavirus, and those measures might seem reassuring. If someone doesn't have a fever, it seems like they're fine -- right?

But it turns out not a single US coronavirus case has been caught by airport temperature checks, despite more than 30,000 passengers being screened a month, according to a CNN investigation.

"Inefficient and ineffective": It isn't the first time the method has been called into question.

Earlier this month, British researchers published a study showing that temperature checks will fail to detect a coronavirus infection nearly half the time.

In Israel, temperature checks have been used in the past for outbreaks such as Ebola and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) but they were found not to work.

"It is ineffective and inefficient," said Dr. Itamar Grotto, associate director general of Israel's Ministry of Health.

Japan's health ministry has just confirmed that two passengers of the Diamond Princess cruise ship have died from novel coronavirus today.

Both of them were in their 80s, although their identity and gender is not known at this time. More details are expected to be released later.

For what it's worth a friend of mine who is a nurse in NYC says they have already had a novel coronavirus case but they didn't report it to the CDC because they would be slow and would "make a big deal out of it" which sounded like more work for the already overworked nursing staff. But he didn't seem to think it was worse than the flu.

R482, in manhattan?

Two Australian states have advised GPs to test anyone turning up in their office with even very mild symptoms of a cold or flu to test for the coronavirus if they have been in Bali and other parts of South East Asia in the last two weeks.

That's just ignorant of your friend and the hospital staff who participated, r482. And for you to publicly post that info here is equally ridiculous. Don't be surprised if someone comes knocking on your door soon.

This is the reason we have outbreaks that soon become out of control.

That's just ignorant of your friend and the hospital staff who participated, r482. And for you to publicly post that info here is equally ridiculous. Don't be surprised if someone comes knocking on your door soon.

This is the reason we have outbreaks that soon become out of control.

From R451

[quote]'And, if the CDC doesn't know the parameters of the disease, the incubation period, the non-symptomatic carriers, then who does?'

No one knows yet, which is why we should all err on the side of caution. This idiot should be shot.

R485 so you'd rather I not say anything and are berating me (and threatening me) for saying something while simultaneously blaming my friend for the virus breaking out?

I don't think they are required to report it to the CDC, either. A lot of healthcare reporting is voluntary.

And lastly, it sounds like the CDC expects this new virus to be part of our yearly routine from now on during flu season. Everything they are doing this far is just to slow it down enough that it doesn't overwhelm the healthcare system.

[quote]Keep calm and listen to Dr. Mike

Dr. Mike doesn't seem to know that SARS-CoV-2 is the virus that causes COVID-19. Is this like an HIV/AIDS situation where people will always mix up or misunderstand that one is a virus, the other is the disease it causes?

Two dead from the Diamond Princess cruise--both in their 80s.

R490 So young.

r462 an African man in Wuhan caught the virus and recovered.

I think R482 ‘s friend is a bit of drama queen. The cases in NYC that were sent to CDC all came back negative so it would be more accurate to say it was a suspected case, not a for sure we had a case, case.

But in defense of R482 I had heard also (two weeks ago maybe?) that to send a sample to CDC you had to ask the DOH to ask the CDC and the answer was often no based upon lack of risk factors. So if a person knew the answer was going to be no maybe he or she wouldn’t bother asking.

That is changed now that NYC is one of the cities where negative for flu samples are going to be tested for Coronavirus. Yay UCSF!

First coronavirus death reported in South Korea as cases jump again

A patient has died from the novel coronavirus in South Korea, according to the country's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC).

It is South Korea's first death from the virus and comes amid a rapid jump in cases across the Asian nation.

According to the KCDC, there have been 22 new confirmed cases, bringing South Korea's total confirmed infections to 104 on Thursday.

Dr. Mike explained they are the same virus, but the latter name was a better choice. Pay attention.

CNN-Coronavirus patients can have similar “viral load” whether or not they show symptoms

Researchers in China are saying that people with the novel coronavirus may have the same viral load -- or amount of virus in their body -- whether or not they are actually showing symptoms of illness.

In a letter published in The New England Journal of Medicine, the researchers describe how they monitored viral loads of the virus in samples taken from the nose and throat of 18 patients: nine men and nine women ranging in age from 26 to 76 in Zhuhai, in China’s Guangdong province.

Their analysis showed that the 17 patients with symptoms had a similar viral load in tests to the one patient who had no symptoms. "(This) suggests the transmission potential of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic patients,” the researchers wrote in the letter.

“These findings are in concordance with reports that transmission may occur early in the course of infection."

More infectious than SARS?: It comes as the largest and most comprehensive study yet of the novel coronavirus found it is highly contagious, more so than severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS).

Carried out by a group of experts at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology on Monday, the study looked at more than 72,000 confirmed and suspected cases of the coronavirus.

R482 is a lying troll. Ignore it.

cnn-South Korean and Chinese presidents agree to share coronavirus information

South Korean President Moon Jae-in and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed to share information about the two countries’ coronavirus clinical treatment experiences during a phone call today.

In a written statement, South Korea’s Blue House said that President Xi explained the Chinese government’s actions in response to the novel coronavirus and told President Moon that “the Chinese people has broken away from the initial fear and are seeing the prospect and hope of overcoming the infectious disease.”

President Moon thanked President Xi for China’s active cooperation during South Koreans’ repatriation from China on charter flights, the Blue House said, adding that the South Korean government would like to add to the Chinese efforts in combating the novel coronavirus.

The two leaders also agreed to share clinical treatment experiences and to strengthen cooperation between the countries’ quarantine authorities.

[quote]For what it's worth a friend of mine who is a nurse in NYC says they have already had a novel coronavirus case

My sister heard the same thing from her brother-in-law's niece's boyfriend's great uncle!

CNN-Japan announced 12 new confirmed cases of the novel coronavirus on Thursday, including two government officials who worked onboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship.

Among the cases on land is one taxi driver in Okinawa who drove a tourist from the Diamond Princess and has now tested positive. The vessel stopped at a port in Okinawa on February 1, just days before the coronavirus cases were confirmed onboard.

My understanding of all of this is vague at best, but why is it called the "novel" coronavirus? Is it just because the newest version?

Please keep in mind that scolding wounds when you respond.

Hopefully you die of it next r501 you idot perishable vague flower, you.

Well, at least I can spell "idiot" r502.

I can also spell "miserable worm".

R503 You knew what I meant. Get a hobby.

Id also like to I wow hat the novel part means.

Novel as in new- what's so hard to understand?

CNN-Coronavirus-positive Americans from cruise in Japan must meet these 3 criteria to return home

US citizens who were on board the Diamond Princess cruise and tested positive for the novel coronavirus must be cleared per US guidelines before returning home, according to letters sent by the US embassy in Tokyo to these passengers.

These guidelines were sent to at least one American passenger who is still in Japan. The US began evacuating some passengers earlier this week.

In order to be eligible to board a US-bound flight, three key criteria must be met:

-Any fever must have resolved in the absence of medication.

-There must also be an improvement in any signs and symptoms of illness.

-Patients must test negative on two sets of nasal and throat swabs 24 hours apart.

This is in line with existing guidance from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on when to release patients from isolation in hospitals.

"You will not be cleared to travel simply by waiting 14 days,” the embassy specified. Fourteen days is the upper estimate of the virus’ incubation period.

These criteria are set by the CDC and the US Department of Health and Human Services. Carnival Corporation, which owns and operates the Diamond Princess cruise ship, has agreed to cover testing costs for these passengers if the Japanese government doesn’t, according to the letters.

After submitting test results to the CDC, passengers must wait to receive notification by a US embassy representative notifying them they are cleared to fly to the US.

For the rest of those aboard, CDC said on Tuesday that "all passengers and crew of the ship have been placed under travel restrictions, preventing them from returning to the United States for at least 14 days after they had left the Diamond Princess.”

R497 and r499 seriously? What I posted is true. Don't be punks.

One of the biggest challenges I see is how they will effectively triage and treat patients on the *lower* spectrum of symptoms with Corona virus from those who need respiratory support. We have already heard that ICUs around the country will rapidly fill up once a surge in cases start to uptick, so will doctors and local health departments be able to send less severe cases home with retro-viral drugs and trust that these patients will effectively self-isolate during treatment time? P.S.- Is anyone else finding this thread *glitchy*?

There's no guarantee that ICUs will fill up due to coronavirus, much less *rapidly*. China is an unreliable narrator, per usual. They are a shitty, totalitarian glass cannon that imposes such a violent lockdown on their own people that there is no free exchange of information - even casually from non-government sources.

I was in the Philippines and felt so massively tired for a stretch of two days and slept like 16 hours each day. My husband ran a fever (unverified, but he was hot to the touch) for one day, and slept it off and was fine the next. For all I know we had the coronavirus. Doomers have been saying since late Jan that it would just be one week more, then one week more before shit hit the fan.

You don't see people in Vietnam, the Philippines, Laos, India, Bangladesh, et cet all massively dying in the streets, and those are not dazzling paragons of medical achievement.

CNN--US health experts are part of the team investigating coronavirus outbreak in China

US health experts are part of a World Health Organization team in China investigating the novel coronavirus outbreak, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Thursday during a press briefing.

Tedros said the team on the ground in China includes experts from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the US National Institutes of Health, as well as experts from Singapore, Korea, Japan, Nigeria, Germany and Russia. The team includes experts in epidemiology, virology, clinical management, outbreak control and public health, he said.

Team members are working with Chinese counterparts to study transmissibility of the virus and the impact the of measures taken in China, Tedros said.

US health officials have said they made repeated offers, starting in early January, to send health experts to China, and expressed frustration that US experts had not yet been invited in.

R510 Agreed. So far the virus doesn’t seem to be out of control except for China and the cruise ship in Japan. Otherwise, just a few cases here and there, most non-fatal. Unfortunately, it could still break out or mutate. The fact that it is new (novel) and contagious and there is no cure is the cause for concern, but there is nothing to do right now but wait and watch.

R508, oh yeah? Then where is the case? Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Harlem, S.I. ? You know nothing!

R512, It's spreading fast in South Korea and Singapore. People with no travel history to China. I think a couple of clusters who went to Church.

A friend of a friend flew to Vietnam yesterday. White guy, 46-47. What's the prognosis?

R512 : exactly. And the only reason we know it's "out of control" on the Diamond Princess is because they're actively testing every single person. They're also in close quarters on a floating incubator so that muddies the waters a bit, but that's neither here nor there.

The fact there is not this massive pressure in the industrialized world to test every person with the sniffles leads me to believe that this isn't some death sentence. As I said, I went to Asia (arrived in the Philippines the first day of Chinese New Year) and for all I know I contracted it and slept it off. One time on a family vacation I slept for days straight (fatigue I could NOT shake) and days later my dad was admitted to the hospital for severe pneumonia. He's a lifelong smoker and takes shit care of his body. Mom thinks I gave him whatever I had.

There are just too many unknowns, and again - China isn't helping one bit. But it's not like SEA was bereft of Chinese tourists when the Lunar New Year hit and we're not seeing mass deaths of Filipinos, Thai, Vietnamese, et cet.

They are not testing everyone on Princess Diamond. Too expensive!

It’s too ghoulish for me, but, how will we know if a dear DataLounger has met his maker due to the virus? Should we have a registry, where we check in?

Plague, exciting and new

Come aboard, were expecting you

Contagion, lifes sweetest reward

Let it flow, it floats back to you

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

So it looks like the drama seen in China, other than that one city is essentially over from this New Yorker's perspective. Nobody is cancelling Trump rallies, Hamilton performances, or basketball games. Everybody here in NYC is still riding the subway. There are no stricken celebrities. This will soon be a tragic, but still mere footnote....

Unless the Chinese liberate themselves from their President for life.

So it looks like the drama seen in China, other than that one city is essentially over from this New Yorker's perspective. Nobody is cancelling Trump rallies, Hamilton performances, or basketball games. Everybody here in NYC is still riding the subway. There are no stricken celebrities. This will soon be a tragic, but still mere footnote....

Unless the Chinese liberate themselves from their President for life.

Just heard that 3 more infected in Iran, one of them a doctor and the footage showed people wearing masks in Iran.

Are you sure those weren't niqab?

Two passengers dead from Corona Virus but they are Asians so they don't count.

Oops.

"As I said, I went to Asia (arrived in the Philippines the first day of Chinese New Year) and for all I know I contracted it and slept it off."

You and your boyfriend just had a fever r516. The new coronavirus is a respiratory disease and would ultimately affect your lungs I think. You would have trouble breathing, a bad cought or pneumonia. You guys probably just had a bug or the flu.

Fucking deplorable in the Ukraine!

500 Chinese prisoners infected with COVID-19 in Hubei province...

Four weeks ago it was “calm the fuck down”

Now even Beijing is shutting down everything in the country.

New title

[quote]For what it's worth a friend of mine who is a nurse in NYC says they have already had a novel coronavirus case

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

I don't think anyone will be cracking jokes about this virus in a months time.

^ There won't be anyone left to hear them.

R505 It's because this virus is like something out of a Michael Creighton novel.

For your consideration again for thread title:

Virus of a Thousand Talents

Sure, probably R528, but there are reports that confirmed cases are asymptomatic or have other issues. The point I was trying to make is that we really don’t know how many people have been infected; for all we know lots of people have contracted it but are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms.

it's getting out of control in S. Korea.

cnn-South Korea coronavirus infections almost doubled in 24 hours. The number of cases in South Korea has soared, from 28 a week ago to at least 204 as of Friday afternoon. The outbreak there is centered around the southern city of Daegu.

Has "The Mysterious Case of Dr. Flu Manchu" been used already, or too culturally insensitive?

R538 a couple years ago, there was a swine flu outbreak in Mexico. At first we were seriously concerned since I live in a border town, we have tons of Mexicans back and forth everyday, everyone seemed worried about the flu crossed the border, and local TV news kept reporting the new cases in Mexico, but after a while it just died down and no one bothered to follow up on whether it had spread to our town or not, I always suspected it did, but the symptoms were really mild like common cold and most didn't even show any symptoms at all, so I guess no one really cared.

R513 I know what I said and that's about it. You and posters like you are the reason people don't bother to post real gossip or stories here anymore. It'd be easier just to make shit up than deal with the hall monitor cunts like yourself.

R543 it didn't make sense or was funny the first time either, but you do you.

[quote]Because some of you asked where is the safest place to avoid getting infected, I researched it and found out it was Israel.

Israel’s Ministry of Health on Friday confirmed a passenger returning from a coronavirus-hit cruise ship in Japan has tested positive for COVID-19.

The patient is in quarantine and under supervision, the Health Ministry said in a statement, adding the infection did not take place in Israel.

The remaining passengers returning to Israel were reported to have tested negative for the coronavirus.

Well, r543 you certainly told r543 off but good.

R545 Yes, I'm dead and I'm haunting you. Also you need to clean your bathroom.

CNN-Iran says coronavirus has spread to several cities

The novel coronavirus has spread to several Iranian cities, Minnou Mohraz, a member of the National Committee for Infectious Diseases at the Ministry of Health said today.

“The spread of the coronavirus started in Qom and has reached other cities in the country like Tehran, Babol, Arak, Isfahan, Rasht and other cities due to people traveling. There is a possibility that it exists in all cities across the country,” Mohraz said.

Mohraz said that the source of virus in Iran could be a Chinese worker who works in the city of Qom and had traveled to China. “It’s clear that new coronavirus has circulated in the country and probably the source of this illness was Chinese workers who work in the city of Qom and had traveled to China.”

This is a really good article from a week ago about the economic impact of the virus. Since president dumbfuck has already cut taxes and has pressured the Fed to lower interest rates we won't have many tools to pull us out of a recession. If this comes true trump either won't be re-elected or he will successfully removed from office. I hope it's a republican in office when the bubble bursts.

to normal. The global supply chain is being disrupted, triggering production stoppages in other industrial centres. China will at least struggle through this month. The odds are high, and rising, that the coronavirus crisis will last through March, which may be enough to push the global economy into recession. There is a significant chance that the crisis will last until summer. The economic disruption may pack enough of a punch to pop the biggest global bubble – centred around the US stock market – in modern history. The coronavirus outbreak appears much more serious and more likely to persist than appeared to be the case just two weeks ago. In addition to disrupting the services sector at an estimated cost of over 0.5 per cent of gross domestic product per week, the manufacturing sector may not be able to get back to normal before at least the end of February. Disruption in March looks increasingly likely. The longer the crisis lasts, the more likely is a global recession.

China tries to get back to work amid coronavirus outbreak Over the past two decades, global supply chains have come to rely on China for cheap components. From automobile and electronics to shoes and garments, sourcing materials and components from China is vital to keeping the global economy humming. If China cannot get back to normal soon, the disruption may push the global economy into recession.

Normal precautions require these workers to be quarantined for two weeks. If everything works out perfectly, China’s manufacturing could get back to normal by the end of February.

Under the above best-case scenario, the global economy may avoid a recession. But a significant hit is unavoidable. China’s economy is obviously contracting, even though official statistics won’t show it.

The financial ramifications will be a significant drag for many quarters to come. China’s local governments and businesses have been struggling against high leverage amid slowing growth. A big hit like this will force many to retrench.

China is the largest industrial economy and second largest overall. If its economy slows so much, commodity prices will suffer greatly. The recent fall in oil and iron ore prices are cases in point. That would lead to declining purchasing power for emerging economies.

A slowdown in China alone could trigger a global recession. While the current level of commodity prices doesn’t yet imply a global recession, it is quite close. If the prices of oil and iron ore decline by another 20 per cent, a global recession would be upon us.

If the manufacturing disruption lasts through March, production in other industrial economies like Japan and South Korea would be affected. Emerging economies that make shoes and garments will have trouble sustaining production. The migration of downstream manufacturing to Southeast and South Asia is backed by supplies of materials and parts from China. In this scenario, a global recession becomes highly likely.

Even if Beijing orders all factories to restart, events beyond its control may stop production anyway. If one virus carrier is found in one factory, part of its workforce would need to be quarantined. The factories down the supply chain will be affected. China’s manufacturing sector will have to depend on luck to operate normally. In the worst-case scenario, all human efforts won’t be enough to contain the outbreak. The world must wait for the real saviour – summer time – to break the crisis. The prolonged disruption to global supply chains would lead to bad earnings for multinational companies for two quarters. The bad news may trigger the US stock market bubble to burst, which is likely to be more devastating than the crash in 2008. The global ramifications are easy to imagine.

The US Federal Reserve appears determined to prolong the bubble. Despite the record low US unemployment rate, it introduced another round of quantitative easing last autumn – about US$400 billion since September – to protect the bubble. While the Fed may come up with wild theories to justify its actions, it is clearly in the pocket of those who benefit from the bubble. Since the 2008 global financial crisis, no major economy has cut their debt leverage. The biggest two – China and the US – have increased it. All these debts have not weighed the world down, because asset prices have risen faster than debt, making businesses and households feel secure.

This global Ponzi scheme has been built on the renminbi’s peg to the dollar. As the Fed introduced massive quantitative easing after 2008, it allowed China to triple money supply and quadruple credit, in the 10 years since 2008, by importing the US central bank’s loose monetary policy. This turbo effect led to rising asset prices everywhere. In the past two years, however, the Chinese government has begun to worry about a debt crisis. In contrast, the Fed has relied on the one-pony show of propping up the US stock market to keep it going. Liquidity is a necessary condition for a bubble, but not sufficient. It also takes mass hysteria. Right now, this centres around the big tech companies. When speculators realise that bad earnings will stick around for a long time, they may run. The resulting global recession would validate the panic. The coronavirus may just be the “black swan” to end the mania.

So what stocks to buy when the bubble bursts?

Okay did someone suggest, "Flu are you?" by The Who as a thread title?

WuFlu Over the Cuckoo’s Nest..?

r550, I'm buying the total stock market index fund and will put some Amazon in my Roth.

Flu Kids on the Block?

CNBC: World health officials said Friday the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak in Iran, where health officials confirmed 18 new cases and four deaths in just two days, is “very worrisome.”

Earlier in the day, Iran confirmed 13 new coronavirus cases, bringing its total in the country to 18. Seven people with the flu-like virus were diagnosed in Qom, four people in Tehran and two in Gilan.

The small outbreak in Iran has been linked to a case in Canada and another infection of a 45-year-old woman in Lebanon after those patients traveled to the Middle East nation.

“The cases that we see in the rest of the world, although the numbers are small, but not linked to Wuhan or China, it’s very worrisome,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, said Friday at a news conference at the agency’s headquarters in Geneva. “These dots are actually very concerning.”

r553. Which one ? Having never invested, would Schwab be good because of no online fees? Although Vanguard looks good too.

CoronaVirus Freakout 6 thread title suggestion: Fluby-Doo, Where Are You?

CoronaVirus 6: Everybody Was KungFlu Fightin'

r556, Schwab and Fidelity are both good. Vanguard started the index fund and I think Jack Bogle was a true hero, but their website sucks. The symbol for the total stock index fund or ETF will vary with the brokerage you chose. They all have one though.

Good luck, you have time to research and learn.

Coronavirus Freakout 6: Pandemic! At The Disco

this is so sad! only 29!---------------------------

Coronavirus tragedy: Chinese doctor who postponed wedding to treat patients dies of infection

A 29-year-old Chinese doctor who postponed his wedding to treat coronavirus patients died of the bug this week — one of the youngest people to die from the disease.

Dr. Peng Yinhua — who worked in the outbreak’s epicenter — died Thursday after contracting the deadly infection as he treated patients at the People’s No. 1 Hospital in Wuhan’s Jiangxia district, official news agency Xinhua reported, citing the local health bureau.

Peng was hospitalized on Jan. 25 and transferred to Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital for treatment five days later. He died from the virus at 9:50 p.m. Thursday, despite doctors’ life-saving efforts, the report said.

The respiratory and critical illness doctor had planned to get married during the Chinese New Year holiday, but put off the ceremony so he could be on the front lines as the outbreak intensified.

Peng “never got to send out his wedding invitations, which are still in his office drawer,” Xinhua reported.

At least eight medical professionals have been killed by the virus — including 34-year-old whistleblowing doctor Li Wenliang, whose death earlier this month prompted a public outcry and anti-government postings on social media.

this is so sad! only 29!---------------------------

Coronavirus tragedy: Chinese doctor who postponed wedding to treat patients dies of infection

A 29-year-old Chinese doctor who postponed his wedding to treat coronavirus patients died of the bug this week — one of the youngest people to die from the disease.

Dr. Peng Yinhua — who worked in the outbreak’s epicenter — died Thursday after contracting the deadly infection as he treated patients at the People’s No. 1 Hospital in Wuhan’s Jiangxia district, official news agency Xinhua reported, citing the local health bureau.

Peng was hospitalized on Jan. 25 and transferred to Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital for treatment five days later. He died from the virus at 9:50 p.m. Thursday, despite doctors’ life-saving efforts, the report said.

The respiratory and critical illness doctor had planned to get married during the Chinese New Year holiday, but put off the ceremony so he could be on the front lines as the outbreak intensified.

Peng “never got to send out his wedding invitations, which are still in his office drawer,” Xinhua reported.

At least eight medical professionals have been killed by the virus — including 34-year-old whistleblowing doctor Li Wenliang, whose death earlier this month prompted a public outcry and anti-government postings on social media.

This morning, Italian media outlets reported there were two confirmed cases of Coronavirus somewhere near Milan. It’s now about 8pm, and the number of confirmed cases has risen to 16, and includes cases in Padua.

I came to wive it wealthily in Padua...

Coronavirus Freakout 6: -

A Flu Day Has Come

Coming Out as WuFlu-id

Big Trouble in Wuhan China

The Joy Flu Club

Shangflu’d

Crazy Infected Asians

My Girl Flu-day

Mother, May I Sleep With the Chinese Delivery Man?

Back to Flu-ture

I like the suggestions of WuFlu over the Cuckoo's Nest or something with Flu Manchu in it.

34 confirmed cases in the U.S.

Those are all terrible, R565.

R568 go fuck your Dad... again

Lots of good thread name suggestions. I started this thread, but someone else should pick a name for the next one. If this flu really spreads, we may end up needing all of them,

CNBC--#HubeiProvince has told its businesses they are not to resume work before end of March 10. Schools not to re-open until further notice. #coronavirus #China

[quote]CNBC--#HubeiProvince has told its businesses they are not to resume work before end of March 10. Schools not to re-open until further notice. #coronavirus #China

From the article at r549:

If the manufacturing disruption lasts through March, production in other industrial economies like Japan and South Korea would be affected. Emerging economies that make shoes and garments will have trouble sustaining production. The migration of downstream manufacturing to Southeast and South Asia is backed by supplies of materials and parts from China. In this scenario, a global recession becomes highly likely.

Japan will definitely go into a recession...

My contribution:

Whose Flu Is It, Anyway?

What about the summer Olympics, R573?

Don't believe a single word about the latest updates from China.

Corona is spreading faster and wider than legs in a whorehouse.

the virus is also spread in jails in China...

💅 Just imagine how fast Corona Virus spread in filthy Chinese nail salon.

WHO: "Spread in US, highly possible, very likely."

The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Flu Manchu?

What Kind of Flu Am I?

why the fuck are these people wearing masks but not wearing disposable gloves.

Many healthcare workers are notoriously ignorant when in comes to precautionary measures regarding infection prevention and control.

R482 I wouldn't be surprised, as there are several reports of current cases not being reported on at all, or simply no follow-up whatsoever after an initial story breaks. In NY state, several web posts, FB pists, etc. have been scrubbed in recent days regarding stories of cases upstate, Buffalov and some suburbs specifically.

Certain communities like NY and FL seem to be invoking HIPPA laws as to their keeping quiet. Local health departments in both states have told the media their policy is not to disclose, or comment on any suspected cases. There are also 26 individuals presently under quarantine in Westchester County.

It doesn't inspire confidence in the numbers when the CDC still maintain the "official" number of confirmed to have virus is only 15. This simply doesn't compute after 14 evacuees left Diamond Princess for American quarantine. I have read the opinions of several health officials who seem to be rationalising such unorthodox accounting practices. Some of the absurd explanations were that these were deemed "foreign" or "imported" cases of transmission. This is a bunch of nonsense according to the standards the WHO embrace. All individuals are to be counted if they are on American soil, regardless of transmission in International waters, or foreign soil. Others maintain they're not being counted because they're in Federally mandated quarantine. This also flies in the face of international standards.

Once the infected Americans were repatriated, their figures left the "Japanese Column", and they ought to have moved directly into the "American Column". Now that there is a colour-coded risk level being assigned countries by number of cases, this downplay is IMHO to promote continued travel, participating in the financial markets, etc. To quote another, it's simply more silence and "Hopium" & Euphoresta" ... Chas. Hugh Smith

On a much lighter note: to those posters curious as to treatment which may aid in mitigating the dreaded cytokine storms, there are accounts in the medical literature, as well as many anecdotal accounts of both Statins and Ibuprofen being effective. There has been a Chinese researcher who has claimed Ibuprofen may also inhibit the virus binding to the epithelium

Hoo boy

[quote] A 20-year-old Chinese woman from Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, traveled 400 miles(675 km) north to Anyang where she infected five relatives, without ever showing signs of infection, Chinese scientists reported on Friday, offering new evidence that the virus can be spread asymptomatically.

Just think about all of the money Americans are forced to spend on cheap Chinese products because our options have become so limited. And this is how they thank us?

Please read the linked proposed Bill especially if you live or ever visit NY.

More interesting developments..mad respect to the German coverage; Deutsche Welle doing an impressive job as always with their reporting.

Has someone already suggested CoronaVirus Freakout 6: One Flu Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

Mixing "Hopium" & ”Euphoresta" causes massive overdoses.

Timeout: Facemasks can be sexy -

New thread link?

New thread link?

New thread link?

R590 May I suggest Yellow Death Grip?

New thread number 6

600 is too large for most tablets.

Shrink threads to 400 so they aren’t glitchy AF.

Shut this thread

down!