Ride a cock-horse to Banbury Cross

And yes, story time also includes readers from our Bay City, Springfield, Monticello, and Henderson libraries.

Is it true that Helen Wagner confuses Ellen Dolan and Rita McLaughlin?

Helen isn't confusing much of anything these days, dear.

I remember laughing out loud when Eileen Fulton said on a talk show that Carol was known as “Sterile Carol” on the set. And Fulton got blamed for it because of the “grandmother clause” in her contract.

I remember people sent hate mail to ATWT when Margo lost her baby in 1986 - they thought Eileen's grandma clause was still intact.

I wish the scene where Bob and Kim meet Sabrina was still on YT. It was beautifully done.

This was a few scenes or day(s) before.

Fulton was so right with that grandma clause. Soaps go crazy with SORASing which impacts the entire canvas. Then you end up with a 30 year old playing a mother to 20 year old playing a teenager. It's not right or fair, especially to actresses.

Thanks for starting a new thread.

Thanks also for posting the link in the last thread. I never would have found this thread otherwise. Talk about obscure titles! This title has no meaning for me as I didn't start watching ATWT until AW was canceled.

R9

Sorry, Aunt Liz, I was trying to be more under the radar in the hopes that a certain webmistress might not lock this one away so quickly!

Pre-Marland ATWT (especially 80s ATWT) always looks so washed out and boring to me.....

I see that R11 and to me that is soap opera. The long scenes, the pauses, and the painful slowness as they rehash and hit every single beat. I guess I'm old fashioned.

R7, are you looking for this?

it's more of a 'we have to survive Howard Lansing' than a formal introduction but it's pretty great.

what was great about this climax is that BOB got to save Frannie this time; last time, Kim was the one who protected her and was ready to kill Douglas to save Frannie's life.

Doug Marland's best story was Douglas Cummings, his reign of terror, his murder, the trial, the fallout.

Just brilliant.

R13 you just linked back to this thread?

I guess I'm somewhere between R11 and R12. I'm old school for sure, but you can't really argue that Marland didn't "hit every single beat." My God, no one was better at dragging a story out until absolutely EVERYONE knew the secret except the poor subject of that secret. He just knew how to do it while somehow making the show feel urgent, fast paced. People were always hustling and bustling, wheeling and dealing-- and I loved that energy.

Marland really planned ahead. Think about how long he let the secret of Adam's parentage linger (until Black & Stern pissed it away in 1996). Colleen Zenk tells a story about taking Laurence Caso to a party and meeting the actress playing the adult Bonnie. After being told her current story, Caso said something like, "That's not who Doug planned to pair her with."

I totally believe that, R17! Damn it, why did that man have to die?

I liked old school soap, too, and loved AW.

I just thought late 70s/early 80s ATWT dragged, when I see it now on video.

Did you know Rachel Miner (GL) has MS? I saw an interview today with her. She was diagnosed in 2010 but didn't go public with it until 2013. She's now confined to a wheelchair.

I had no idea.

Kay Alden gave a great interview about the early days of going to an hour and how soap writers just didn't know how to structure the show for an hour which made the shows drag somewhat. I guess it was easy for Lemay, but other writers struggled. Using what we know now, I think the genre suffered because of the hour. I get why Lemay, Rauch and the networks were gung ho, but I have come to believe that a 30 minute soap is soap at it's best. Those old school 30 minute shows really moved and in many cases it was one or two scenes per act.

Because of the hour shows, real estate was limited, so it cut down on the number of new shows that could be created.

Rachel was a very good Michelle.

GL really held its own in the early to mid-80's against GH. For a soap so many tried to label "old" in many ways, it was anything but. I think Phillip/Beth should have been more popular than Luke/Laura. I know they helped GL hold its own during those years then they broke them up in a flash.

I started watching ATWT when the Steve/Betsy/Craig and the Stenbeck Heir storylines were in full force. They were both very exciting and made you want to tune in every day. When Marland arrived, he was not a fan of some of these stories, and really put Steve and Betsy on the backburner, eventually shipping Steve off to a Greek prison , and having Betsy just fade away. I understand why he did it (Frank Runyeon and Meg Ryan's replacement had NO chemistry), but it seemed a sad end to this once-supercouple.

If you'd seen what Seth Snyder was packing, bitches, you would have wanted to ride a cock horse, too!

Speaking of long stories, Marland created the whole "Who is Lily's Mother?" story during the time when Lucinda wouldn't tell Sierra she was her mother. He asked Elizabeth Hubbard what she thought could be holding Lucinda back and Hubbard simply replied, "I have no idea." So he created the story of the illegal adoption and Iva. I suppose having Lucinda reveal the truth about Sierra could have forced people to look closer and learn about her attempts to have another child after. That story went on...

R25

Lucinda wasn't Sierra's mother? Really?

No, she was R26 but she wouldn't tell Sierra that fact.

Marland did so much with Lisa Brown as Nola. And they tried and tried and tried with Iva but she just seemed to remain a sadsack, loser in love.

Remember the long writer's strike in 1988 where even the best stories kind of died on the vine?

AW came out of the writers strike of 1988 in better shape than any other soap. That's because NBC daytime exec Donna Swajeski was the scab HW during the strike. She did such a good job, they hired her to HW again just two months later after Harding Lemay quit, not willing to put up with network interference.

"Marland did so much with Lisa Brown as Nola. And they tried and tried and tried with Iva but she just seemed to remain a sadsack, loser in love."

I thought Iva's agony was DELICIOUS, though I enjoyed Brown's performance as Nola, too. She really had range.

According to those familiar with that time period, Donna Swajeski just used Harding Lemay's bible. Lemay, had apparently written a pretty extensive projection (something like 500 pages of story and story ideas)

She couldn’t have used his entire Bible-she had to modify it after Doug Watson died. Which is probably why The Red Swan was a drag.

Wasn’t Lemay planning to bring back some of his other favorite 70s characters, like Pat Randolph?

He was planning to do a big storyline about Jason Frame using the Frame farm as a baby trafficking center but Lemay got fired and the story was never used.

R15, sorry; mis-linked.

Here's a link to Feb 16, 1987 where Bob saves Sabrina and Frannie and then Kim comes in and holds Sabrina.

Somewhere I have on tape, I think, the episode in which Kim and Bob are on the gondola and he tells Kim his theory -- that Lansing STOLE their baby and gave her to the Fulllertons who'd had a miscarriage or two before.

It was awesome.

The only other show that did well during the 1988 strike was GL, because it had the Sonni/Solita story.

It was a fucking mess plotwise but Michelle Forbes.....wow. Like Mary Kay Adams, I would have watched Forbes read the fucking phone book.

I agree, R36; I was a kid during the final Dobson era days. I missed Holly, Rita, (Marland's) Vanessa, Jackie, Carries I & 2

But from 1984 on, we had Alexandra, Reva, India, Sonni, Maeve (sue me, I liked her; she was a great contrast to Reva).

R35 Thanks!

I know before I'd seen the episode on YT where Kim and Bob see Sabrina and embrace her....it's very moving. Either it's been taken down or it's embedded in one of the episodes out there by date.

R37 We won't give you too much grief for liking Maeve, but I thought she was a bore and, more glaringly, was taking away some of the story of "great society lady" that Vanessa should have had during those years.

R39, I don't blame Maeve :) for turning sophisticated witty Vanessa into a pill popper to run over HB and Reva's miracle baby.

I was conflicted between hating how Vanessa was being written and being grateful that at least she was still around. 1985 was tough -- we had fake Phillip, fake Ed; Charita died in real life; Bernau and Newman were gone.

Katie ran off with a basketball star; Tony and Annabelle bolted during a party. GL was getting more and more unrecognizable.

Plus, Lujack died!

I think Pam Long brought some of Vanessa back during her second run. Lots of scenes with Henry. She was delicious again.

John Bolger wasn't Phillip, but I wanted John to sit on my face for an entire weekend. What a beautiful, beautiful man.

I forgot that Reva slept her way though an entire family. I guess that's an honor she shares she with Brooke Logan.

John Bolger was a very good and could been a fantastic Phillip if GL had cast him in Dec. 1982. I'm sure he would have made the role his own.

Problem was, in Dec. 1982, GL cast Grant Aleksander as Phillip instead. And Grant was just perfect in the role. He created an amazing character and left an indelible impression. Bolger was never able to overcome that.

All replacement actors have a daunting task of winning over the audience. For Bolger, the task was especially hard given what Grant did. I think Bolger did a great job in his two years, but we ultimately look at that as a failure because he wasn't Grant and therefore wasn't Phillip.

R43 Yes, and also that Grant's Phillip was an asshole jock with a heart of gold. (Well, except for when he did slightly psycho things like set off a bomb that made Beth blind.)

Whereas John played someone that could have been a member of the royal family. Just not as earthy as Grant.

I may have rewound our VCR and played the bit at 5:30 (with hips thrusting) a time or two....or twenty.

You won't find a bigger Grant fan than me, but I would have gladly accepted Bolger in another role.

I remember watching in the fall of 1984, India is blackmailing Phillip into marriage.

She points out that Phillip and Beth never made love so she went out and found a real man - Lujack! (and MK Adams snaps the line : "Lewww-Jackck!")

Phillip goes to strangle her out of frustration and says don't you even say her name; with India's last breath she snarks BETH!!!!

I really thought he was going to kill her. The two actors were in their early to mid 20s at this point. Marvelous stuff.

R46 I loved the way MKA would say, as India....."Pheeeelip!"

Mary Kay Adams and Sherry Stringfield were two of GL's best finds in the 1980s. Too bad the two were only on the show at the same time for a couple of month -- during India's 3-month return in late 1990. I would have loved to see those two trade jabs and snarls on a regular basis.

However, after Liz Keifer was in the role, during India's occasional visits, she did make a few snips toward Blake. I loved how India would call her "Blaine."

Their shared scenes during the Phillip's ex-wives meeting were wasted.

A room that included Liz Keifer, MKA and Joan Collins should have delivered more!

In the last thread, Larkin Malloy's Kyle Sampson was mentioned several times.

The character came in with great fanfare. Richer than the Lewis clan, challenged the Spauldings in business, began wooing Reva, moved on to romance Maeve Stoddard. But then it all sort of fizzled out. By the time Kyle left town, no one really cared.

So, what happened? So much potential not lived up to

R50 I think a few things happened.

Three main things: Robert Newman came back, and whether it was writers, P&G or the network, the support for Reva with Josh was bigger than for Reva/Kyle. (And you may remember Reva/Josh reunion was initially kind of boring. It took Pam Long's return and the Sonni story to spice things up.)

Chris Bernau came back, and he and Larkin had similar stage presence.

Also, Larkin didn't fit in well at GL. I don't think anyone *hated* him, but Zimmer was the only friend he had there. He was open about that in a few interviews. Kyle hogged story as soon as he hit the ground, and some cast members resented that.

I remember seeing her on that soap opera, she played twins I think, good actress.

saw her once in antiq store in village, serious shopper!

I remember seeing her on that soap opera, she played twins I think, good actress.

saw her once in antiq store in village, serious shopper!

as world turns was my fave, hot men and fun divas...alwys a new stud cumin in...lots of big stars started there.

I loved Stringfield’s Blake snarking with a broad grin on her face “Nothin’ says lovin’ like a Spaulding in the oven.”

LOL R55 - I remember that line!

Having a senior moment here. Does anyone remember what Lucinda said at Lisa's wedding? I remember loving her comment when I saw it way back when.

R57, Lucinda was sitting with James and when Lisa appeared at the end of the aisle, Lucinda turned to James, grabbed his arm, and gasped, "She's wearing white!" and dissolved in laughter.

Little Miss Seattle comes through once again.

R57 LOL Thanks, I can see La Walsh doing that now.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Liz Hubbard ad libbed that line. If I remember it was a sequence of cuts to various people's faces, and when the camera stopped on Liz, she blurted out that line.

You all are hearing it from me first: Jonnysbro has another alter ego who will be making a Christmas surprise appearance at the Soap Opera Network message boards. Is it a new poster? A regular poster? An oldie who formed an alliance with Jonny’s network with Jerry, Eboneece, and Donna B? Guess you will have to stop by SON to find out.

R62

No one gives a fuck about what goes on at other boards.

STILL and FOREVER

of all places to show up next, Larkin appeared as an extra in an airport in the last (or one of the last) episodes of Search for Tomorrow!

I had flown to NY in the mid-80s after college with a fancy communications degree and a love of soaps -- I interviewed at ATWT, GL and AW for entry level p.a. jobs.

They never hit, but boy, did I want those jobs badly. I thought the shows would be around forever.

maybe my favorite GL Christmas ever 29 years ago, 1990.

Phillip's ordeal being framed for Neil's murder was over. He was free -- for the moment. He, Rick and Beth had to deal with charges related to faking Phillip's death.

The Spauldings convened for the holidays. India gave a heartfelt farewell to Phillip, clearly still in love with him and she let him know it. Blake was on the outs. Sam was getting ready for her surgery to cure her paralysis. McKinsey delivering, as always. On her way out with Roger, Alex says 'goodbye Mindy!' oblivious to their affair.

Hamp played the sax. Nick made sure everyone had a Merry Christmas by making sure Lisa Drevecki (sp?) didn't get to the manse to arrest Phillip.

Pam Long knew how to write a holiday show. She knew how to write period.

After AMC, Larkin was at ATWT for some years as an acting coach.

I know Lisa Brown was at one of the shows as a coach - I can't remember if it was ATWT or GL, but she was there to help for a few years, I think only on an occasional basis.

Larkin was the mad scientist at the aging spa the pregnant ATWT actresses were sent to.

I'm remembering India being tied up with Christmas lights.

Did the Corys have any Christmas traditions?

Mac gave a speech every year direct to the camera if I remember correctly.

And he gave a wink to all the male prostitutes he’d hired that year.

Was Douglass Watson a gay?

Yes, R71.

no, he was married; I think his wife was named Eugenia?

yeah, just checked wiki; jeez, how is this stuff in my head.??

I guess back in the olden days we didn't have the Internet, but we had Daytime TV Yearbooks.

They'd have all kinds of biographical info on the soaps and I'd read it over and over because that's all there was. Again, no 'net.

I miss the good old days.

No, Doug Watson wasn't gay.

He was Canadian!

Wyndham and Watson had a long term affair.

Uhhh...no, they didn’t, R75.

Wyndham and Watson were good friends, but no affair.

Wyndham said she had a small handful of friends from the show: Douglass Watson, Connie Ford, Charles Keating, and the actors who played Amanda (Sandy Ferguson) and Matthew (Matt Crane).

Bad quality, but the India-Christmas-lights scene is around 11:00

Sob!

I don't think there's a OLTL thread so I'm putting this here because Strasser was also on AW.

She has been on a tea spilling bonanza the last couple of days. Her trash talk about that cunt JFP is mic drop worthy.

Regarding P&G she also dropped info about George Reinholt. Seems he did sex tapes.

I was reading others talking about her JFP tea & I read an interesting bit of info. Jill approached La Strasser to take over the Alexandra role. Robin agreed & they shook hands on it. Before paperwork was signed Robin reached out to OLTL & used the fact she was being wooed to take over the Alex role to broker a return to OLTL..

All the shit Strasser described today about JFP sounds like Jill was not only sadistic but knew how to get payback .

Robin swore today she's not been drinking but something has let her spill all sorts of shit.

r80

where did she do this?

Thanks R80 - welcome to share a little here, if we need a new OLTL thread I'll open one.

Strasser posted a Twitter thread about Connie Ford

Robin on JFP

Loved Robin as Rachel. That's the storyline that put Another World on the map. Alice/Steve/Rachel is probably the best soap triangle ever.

Robin as Rachel

I like RS well enough, but this was MY Rachel.

She and I....well, we had the kind of love you'll never know!

I like RS well enough, but this was MY Rachel.

She and I....well, we had the kind of love you'll never know!

Here's the most recent AMC/OLTL thread.

[quote]I was reading others talking about her JFP tea & I read an interesting bit of info. Jill approached La Strasser to take over the Alexandra role. Robin agreed & they shook hands on it. Before paperwork was signed Robin reached out to OLTL & used the fact she was being wooed to take over the Alex role to broker a return to OLTL..

r80 You've got the gist of the story right, but some details wrong. We've discussed Strasser's meeting with JFP several times before on these P&G threads.

In early 1993, JFP was looking for a replacement for La Bev as Alexandra. Micaheal Zaslow (Roger Thorpe) let Strasser know they were recasting the role of Alex. (Zaslow and Strasser were friends from their time on OLTL, when he played David Renaldi, the father of Dorian's daughter Cassie). Strasser let it be known she was interested in the role and went to the GL studios for a meeting with JFP. The meeting went well, but it was just a get to know you chat; no offer was made at that point. As she was leaving, Strasser ran into a reporter from one of the soap rags in the lobby.

Knowing the soap reporter would blab about seeing Strasser at GL, she decided it was best to let OLTL know she was in talks to play Alex. In the soap world, if you leave a show on good terms, it's considered good form to let your old show know you're considering going to another show. So, Strasser paid a courtesy call on Linda Gotlieb, the EP of OLTL at the time, to tell her. Gotlieb made her an offer on the spot, which she accepted.

JFP got mad, feeling that Strasser had used her for leverage to get OLTL to make her the offer.

[quote]Regarding P&G she also dropped info about George Reinholt. Seems he did sex tapes.

That's not right. You're confusing what she said about Reinholt and Jeremy Slate. The Twitter feed got broken up, so it's easy to get all her ramblings confused.

Robin did say that George Reinholt was gay, but didn't say anything about him doing sex tapes. This is what she said about Reinholt:

[quote]#GeorgeReinholt one of the sexiest-most intelligent intense actors ever! On #AnotherWorld #JacquieCourtney & I had BIG crushes on him. A man uncomfortable in the times in which he lived-he identified as #Gay privately but couldn't go public because it would've ruined career opps

[quote]With nostalgic sadness-I think about #GeorgeReinholt & wonder how much happier he would have been as a person-if his career had begun now-instead of back in the darker ages...Being in the closet must be very lonely & dark-I hope his Soul is happy-free & reading poetry somewhere..

She later talked about Jeremy Slate, who played Asa's right hand man Chuck Wilson on OLTL, and also briefly played Locke Wallace, who romanced Alexandra on GL in 1984. It was Jeremy Slate who made sex tapes according to Robin. This is what she said about Slate:

[quote]WHOA-P t 1 got lost!#JeremySlate! Brought on to play #ASABuchanan's best bud-he was a Hippie w/Glam! He lived in a mobile coach at the time-Only wanted to work long enough to hit the road again-Kind & generous-beautiful to look at #JeremySlate:) I attended his Memorial in #Malibu

[quote]Around the time he was on #OLTL he made a sex tape for seniors-really! you can't make this stuff up! A beautiful young actress who went for a weekend drive in that coach & came back with the news "He was only interested in pleasuring me" excuse me-is that a RAVE review or what?:)

Why can I not remember Jeremy Slate? I even looked him up on IMDB and the pics don't refresh my memory.

I vaguely remember him. He was a handsome-ish older man. I remember Locke on GL because they'd named him after a stage manager and they made a fuss over him for a bit, then poof, he was gone. One of the things between Pam Long Stint I and Stint II where they radically changed the show every few months.

That GL opening music is absolutely stunning. Grand and sweeping. The montage that accompanies is also wonderful- the horse racing on the beach-the girl riding the mechanical horse-the hot air balloon the end it- WOW. How could they ever get rid of that kind of opening? It was better than Y&R iconic opening by miles.

R87, Aunt Liz WINCING over Rachel pointing out Alice never gave Steven a son was fantastic; it's why Irene was so great; no wonder she won that Emmy!

R94, I loved the GL openings.

The 'simple' one of the light shining through the blurry tree branches was great. Personally, I loved the disco opening. Show was on fire!

The sweeping one with the more romantic theme was great; and I liked the next one after, which was shorter and more upbeat.

I disliked the twangy one that came next with the blue background; too cutesy for a dramatically heavy era.

I personally think the only iconic opening is Days of our Lives. They've modernized it, but it remains basically unchanged. PG threw out all of their iconic openings during the 1981 "get hip and like GH" phase that all their shows went through. "Dropping the "the" and de-emphasizing the iconic interlocking rings, the lighthouse and making the themes like something out of a bad 70s disco didn't bring in new viewers.

That GL opening, while it had other good ones, should have never been changed. It truly was grand. When you think of soap openings, I would envision an opening like that.

I loved the late 70s GL opening, the "disco" one, and the theme from the 80s which was the one with the hot air balloon. (I liked the earlier arrangement of it - when they made it more upbeat and synth-y in the late 80s I hated it.)

This was the last one I really loved.

Why would GL change that magnificent opening in the mid-80's???? Gorgeous!

[quote] Why would GL change that magnificent opening in the mid-80's???? Gorgeous!

Money

R101 How so? The show was doing great then and the opening was a stunner.

When GL was good, it reached highs rarely seen in daytime. Then it was treated like shit and let die. That show made billions for CBS and P&G. No matter how bad other shows were at various times GL always had something great to watch.

R102 Most of the last several theme changes for GL were likely due to licensing costs for the music.

That was my Christmas Episode for this year, r79. WTF did they get rid of Alexandra Wilson (Josie) and Danny Markel (Sam)?

ATWT themes grew progressively duller and more generic. The original is beautiful, I love the 80s theme as that was when I was watching and reminds me of all Marland's innovations and "Jelinda's Theme" seemed a way to try and go back to a more sweeping theme but after that...

Who the hell was Jelinda?

The disco GL theme was the one being used when I first started watching the show, so it will always be a favorite.

I also liked the one right after that, the one adopted shortly after Pam Long and Gail Kobe started with the show, the one that had the hot air balloon and Nola and Vanessa both dressed as Scarlett O'Hara.

I did not like the shorter, more upbeat version of the melodic one Pam and Gail introduced that ran from 86-90.

Loved, loved, loved the lighthouse one with the all the images of characters within the light, that debuted in 1991.

Never was terribly fond of any of the ones that came after that. In the 2000s, GL seemed to change theme songs every12 to 18 months.

[quote]In the 2000s, GL seemed to change theme songs every12 to 18 months.

GL and ATWT must have gotten two-for-the-price-of-one discounts from their composers. They were all forgettable.

[quote] Who the hell was Jelinda?

Some sad old bitch who wanted to put us all to sleep.

That theme always seemed to be an attempt at copying Y&R's classical theme.

[quote]Y&R's classical theme

Undoubtedly you meant "Y&R's classic theme." Nothing classical about that treacle.

Theme worth remembering #1:

Theme worth remembering #2 (long version, "You take me away..."):

Theme worth remembering #3:

ATWT had the worst theme songs! So bland and slow. They certainly added to the impression that ATWT was a nursing home soap.

This is the only one that I ever really liked. Upbeat and quick. The way a theme song should be.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but my favorite AW theme song was the one that ran 1981 to 1987.

It was upbeat and quick but included the interlocking circles that had been used for so long.

I always associate that AW theme with the worst period in the history of the show -- 81 and 82 were brutal -- so I can't fully enjoy it.

With about-to-be-shirtless Richard Bekins in r116, who's paying attention to the theme. Plus [italic]quel[/italic] high drama between Sandy and Jamie.

Goodness, you bitches are all up early!

In the summer of '82 on AW, the character Blaine was being terrorized by Cecile and Alma Rudder. (AT the same time, Rachel and some guy were trapped under rocks.) Does anybody remember the Blaine story? What was the story of the doll and the kitten and whatever happened to the characters; I know Cecile came on and off causing trouble the next several years but that's it.

Why does that brief clip of Sandy and Jamie seem filled with sexual tension? Is it the hair?

For the theme at R112, it doesn't sound right without the guy saying "Fashions by Lillie Rubin South Southwest and Barneys... Stayed Tuned for Capitol, next over most of these CBS Stations"

You must have been in a different time zone, r122. Didn't B&B replace Capitol (which came on after Y&R in the east, not ATWT, which was followed by GL "over most of these CBS stations.")

My lineup was

Y&R - 12:30

ATWT - 1:30

Capitol - 2:30

GL - 3:00

ATWT didn't move to 2:00 until they cancelled Capitol. I read that was the deal with CBS/Bill Bell that B&B had to have Y&R as a lead in.

That's right. And it tanked CBSs ratings for years.

Our CBS station never played ATWT during most of the 80s. I had to hunt it down on another affiliate. They had some sad local talk show at 2 pm instead.

Now that I think about it, CBS moved Search to 2:30 before they cancelled it.

If I remember correctly it was,

Y&R

Search

ATWT

GL

I think CBS moved Search to 2:30 either when they made ATWT an hour or when they made GL an hour.

Weirdly, the Wikipedia article on Search is pretty thin.

I could have sworn SFT moved from 12:30 to 2:30 for a while but that might just have been my local market.

Yes, Search moved to 2:30 not long before it moved to NBC.

It is amazing how long and relevant GL was. Sadly, I think, had PL not had as much network interference and had some better writers under her, GL could have rode its hot streak from the mid-80's. Woulda, shoulda, coulda but GL was in a great position to do so. It had a lot of new viewers.

GL as we knew it was pretty much dead in the water after 1993 or so, when the network interference got severe. It had flashes of good after that, but it's a miracle it lasted 16 years after that.

R131 Quality wise, yes, but it was still a very relevant soap. It stepped on its own dick and couldn't untangle itself.

From the NYT re: SFT

To finish off the 1985 spring season - and a few characters - ABC's prime-time soap 'Dynasty' had a bloodbath. To jettison its old format - and a few characters - this Tuesday afternoon at 12:30 NBC's daytime serial 'Search for Tomorrow' is having, well, a bath.

A flood will engulf the fictitious Middle Western town of Henderson; subsequent days will bring the remaining characters and plotlines all into a single apartment house. 'We wanted to get everyone together so they could interact more easily and so we could concentrate more on domestic issues,' said the show's head writer, Gary Tomlin, of the change in television's longest-running soap opera.

Formerly centered on the tangled lives and loves of the McCleary and the Sentell families, 'Search for Tomorrow,' which made its debut in 1951, will now concentrate primarily on community pillars Jo Tourneur (Mary Stuart) and Stu Bergman (Larry Haines) - and all their children.

Soap operas routinely resort to disasters, natural and not so natural, to eliminate characters who have fallen out of favor with viewers and to boost ratings. There was an earthquake on 'Santa Barbara' last year, an airplane crash on 'Days of Our Lives' a few seasons back (a ploy also used recently on prime time's 'Falcon Crest'). A tornado ripped through town in the now-canceled 'The Doctors,' and devastating fires blazed on the also canceled 'Texas' and 'Santa Barbara'; indeed, in the past, 'Search for Tomorrow' has also relied on ravaging flames to heat up its ratings.

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The serial's executive producer, John Whitesell 2d, who joined the staff last November, hopes that the flood disaster will stave off an even worse disaster: cancellation. Currently, the viewership for 'Search for Tomorrow' is the lowest of any daytime serial, with a 2.8 rating and a 10 share compared with a 9.1 rating and a 29 share for the top-ranked 'General Hospital' on ABC. This means that 3.2 million viewers are tuned in daily to the NBC soap opera, while 10.7 million are following ABC's.

'We need to shake up the situation. 'Search' is in desperate need of refocusing,' acknowledged Mr. Whitesell, who at 32 is considered something of a wunderkind in the daytime soap-opera field. He began his career directing 'Texas' in 1981, then joined 'The Guiding Light,' where last season he won an Emmy Award for best director.

Serious difficulties began for 'Search for Tomorrow' in 1982 when it was moved from its 2:30 P.M. time slot on CBS to its 12:30 berth on NBC. (Because the long-running serial was not carrying over viewers from 'As the World Turns,' CBS decided it could fare better with an entirely fresh entry, 'Capitol.') ' 'Search' went from a network where it enjoyed the loyalty of an audience who'd been watching for 30 years,' said Mr. Whitesell. 'It was in trouble from the day it got here.' Though the loyal viewers of 'Search for Tomorrow' could simply have changed channels, they were now being forced to make a choice between an old favorite and the first half-hour of a relatively new - and steamier - show, 'The Young and the Restless.'

'What we're trying to do,' Mr. Whitesell continued, 'is come up with a revitalizing approach. When you have an irrevocable disaster, it changes your life. You don't go back the next day.

'There's something about a flood that's universal,' he added, pointing out that he had considered several disaster options before resorting to rainfall. 'It's cleansing. A hurricane or tornado would make it hard to pick up. With a flood it's not impossible to rebuild a town, and that's what the people of Henderson will be striving to do.'

Meanwhile, Mr. Whitesell is striving to rebuild 'Search for Tomorrow' with more 'character-based scenes.' He and Gary Tomlin will eschew the hairpin plot turns of some of the hourlong daytime serials that over the past few years have included international crime syndicates, drug-smuggling rings and buried treasure. Instead, the show's new format will deal with what is affecting the lives of its characters at home.

'There won't be many office scenes. But this is not to say people won't have jobs,' said Mr. Whitesell, who explained that he plans to have more contiguous sets with kitchens attached to dining rooms attached to living rooms, 'so that it will be easier to follow the characters around.'

At the 'Search for Tomorrow' studio on East 44th Street, the 15 principals and assorted extras are slogging around in yellow, blue and pink slickers while jokingly humming 'Singin' in the Rain' as they gamely endure the relentless aim of a water hose. 'I'm having my shower,' says a new cast member, Jacqueline Schultz, who with David Forsyth (Hogan McCleary) will form one of the all-important-to-the-ratings romantic couples. 'At least the water's warm.'

'I've been in two fires on the show, which were awfully scary,' says Mary Stuart, who has played Jo Tourneur, the much-married co-owner of a boardinghouse in town, and has been on 'Search for Tomorrow' since its inception. 'What's nice about the flood is that everyone is in it. We like the reason for the flood: to turn the show around. We're part of American history, we're part of so many lives. And a lot of actors have come through the show.' (The list includes Jill Clayburgh, Don Knotts, Morgan Fairchild, Hal Linden, Wayne Rogers, John James of 'Dynasty' and Susan Sarandon.) 'I think it's going to be great,' says Marcia McCabe, who has played Sunny Adamson, a reporter on The Henderson Herald, the town's daily newspaper, for more than seven years. 'We want to start with a clean slate. It's a cleansing, so the water is very appropriate. John Whitesell is very daring. Most other producers would have done something less catastrophic.'

But perhaps something catastrophic was precisely what was called for. Mr. Whitesell is up against three major problems: the serial has had a poor showing in the ratings, partially explained by the fact that 'Search for Tomorrow' is not picked up by all of NBC's affiliates; it runs opposite CBS's 'The Young and the Restless,' and it is a half-hour show in an era of hourlong formats.

On a 60-minute soap it is possible to have romance, comedy and mystery in a single day. In only half that time, though, it is difficult to fit in all three without being fragmented and spending large chunks of time on exposition.

'When you have a story with a lot of plot you have to do a lot of explaining,' said Mr. Whitesell, who plans to cut back from 15 scenes per episode to eight or 10. 'That way we'll have a better chance of going into more depth - showing the audience how these characters feel about things. It's all about relatability.' 'I don't think the half-hour problem is insurmountable - we're just going to concentrate on fewer plots and fewer people,' said Mr. Tomlin, who wants to tackle racial issues and other themes generally not addressed by daytime soap operas. 'We're going to be feeling our way for a while. We're trying to get the characters to be identified with as strongly as audiences identified with the characters on the 'Mary Tyler Moore Show.' It's all about people.'

And, since soap operas live or die depending on the romantic interplay between their various couples and triangles, 'We're trying to get them in place. That's the thing we're trying hardest to do now,' Mr. Tomlin added.

It will be some time before Mr. Whitesell can sit back and relax. A format change of this magnitude carries with it the possibility of alienating the core audience, and the executive producer is mindful of the risk he's running. 'You're always a little concerned about alienating veteran viewers,' he said. 'One of the reasons that you don't change too fast is that you want to keep the continuity. But I don't know how we would alienate them because we're keeping intact all the people they love.'

'We're going to be taking a hard look at the show over the next five months,' said Brian Frons, NBC vice president for daytime programming. 'By June we'll make the decision to keep it or replace it.

'What John is attempting to do is very difficult,' Mr. Frons added. 'But if anyone can do it, he can. I think radical change is what 'Search' needs.'

'If people don't like the flood, obviously we can't pretend it didn't happen,' Mr. Whitesell said. 'But I'm not anticipating they won't like it. I think it will be very beneficial to the show.'

'When I took over as head writer in early 1983,' Mr. Tomlin said, 'I was told the show would be lucky to last until September.' A pause. 'But we're still here.'

R115, yes that was the best ATWT intro. It sucked you right into the action. That boring "Jelinda's theme" (was that the flying geese snoozer?) and the later "fanfare with cast photos" were awful.

Search always seemed like the bastard stepchild of PG. Apparently CBS tried to get rid of it for years, before they eventually succeeded. And even classic soap fans only occasionally mention Henderson as a fave among the Midwestern Towns. Search never really had that breakout period like ATWT, GL, and AW and it wasn't niche like Edge. I think Liza and Travis were popular, but I can't think of any other couples. I was a little kid when Jennifer went through the sliding glass door, but that is really one of the only moments that everyone seems to talk about. Well that and Jo singing at Xmas.

R136: "and the later 'fanfare with cast photos' were awful."

I'm guessing you mean the "Toilet Flush Theme," as they called it on the soap boards back in the day? I actually kind of liked the graphics/letters in this one; the music, not so much.

According to Wikipedia, when Y&R expanded to an hour on Feb 4, 1980, it began airing from 1-2 p.m. (Eastern) and AWTW moved back a half hour to air from 2-3 p.m., which also forced GL to move from 2:30-3:30 p.m. to 3-4 p.m. Meanwhile, Search stayed at its traditional 12:30 p.m.

Then on June 8, 1981, CBS moved Search to the 2:30 p.m. time slot. Y&R moved up an hour to air 12:30-1:30 p.m. and ATWT moved back to 1:30-2:30 p.m., while GL remained in the 3-4 p.m. time slot.

My mom said when all her friends were watching GH, she stuck with GL but would flip over to GH during big events. She said when GH went through a boring spell, her friends started sampling GL and it was going through a hot streak so many of her friends started watching GL more and more. She said her niece was in middle school at the time and during Christmas break (during the Beth/Phillip NYC escape) hooked so many of her friends. My mom said her niece would call her every day for GL updates during the school week.

My Aunt, who got me into soaps, switched to GL after NBC cancelled Texas. She said that she got tired of getting into shows only for NBC to cancel them, so she switched to GL and never looked back. She never even gave Santa Barbara a chance. There was a point in the 80s when NBC was cancelling everything. ABC was such a juggernaut that it looked like NBC just wanted to give up.

GL got hot again at the right time. How it held its own and actually made gains against the ABC soaps was remarkable. GL had been building its reputation up as a younger soap in the early 80's then the Four Muskateers thing hit at the perfect time.

It was me that set those GL ratings on fire.

GL's mid-80's fall was steep. I know it has been hashed and rehashed but it is remarkable. It recovered within a few years, ratings again were on fire then it was hit by shocking, huge cast and writing departures that let the air out of the balloon almost for good.

R125, what exactly tanked CBS' ratings for years?

CBS Daytime celebrated 30 years as No. 1 in 2016 with a big party at the Paley Media Center in Beverly Hills. There was a huge display dedicated to all the shows. Even ATWT and GL were honored along with the current programs.

CBS Daytime hasn't found a decent head writer in years, but Angelica McDaniel did tons of promotion for the shows.

R145 Moving the schedule around was a contributing factor to CBS losing its footing for a few years.

It took Y&R almost a decade after it went to an hour and moved to 12:30 ET to crawl back to number one.

[quote]My Aunt, who got me into soaps, switched to GL after NBC cancelled Texas.

I started watching GL in April 1982 after NBC moved Texas from 3 p.m. to 11 a.m. Suddenly, my 3 p.m. was open for other soaps.

I'd watched GH on and off during the Luke and Laura phenomenon, so naturally I tried that first. But by April 82, Laura was gone (disappeared into the fog a few months before) and GH was boring.

The soap mags had raved about Nola's movie fantasies, so I decided to give GL a try. Quint and Nola quickly pulled me in, while the mysterious Mrs. Renfied was up to something nefarious, seemingly plotting against Nola. Alan Spaulding was being held captive by a villain named Lucian Galt (or something like that ) and Mike Bauer rescued him. Morgan was mugged in New York, but hid it from her husband Kelly Nelson, while Josh Lewis was lusting after her. Carrie Marler (Jane Elliot) was acting strange (the beginnings of her aborted multiple personality storyline).

I had just started coming out at the time, so the eye candy in the form of Kelly Nelson and Tony Reardon and Mark Evans and Derek Colby was even more reason to watch!

[quote]Then on June 8, 1981, CBS moved Search to the 2:30 p.m. time slot.

CBS debuted Capitol in March 1982, cancelling Search in the process. It would take a minimum of 6 months to get a new soap up and running, likely more like 9 to 12 months. So, CBS probably already had Capitol in the works when it moved Search to the 2:30 time slot in June 1981.

That makes me wonder if CBS moved Search from its traditional 12:30 time slot to 2:30 with the intention to drive its ratings down so they would have justification to cancel it. Brian Frons was head of CBS Daytime at that point.

Wasn't there a time when PG had a rule that their shows could not compete against each other? So the networks had to scramble the shows around to meet the requirement.

r149 Yes, originally P&G didn't want any of its shows to air opposite each other. And that worked fine when soaps were only 30 minutes and the majority of their shows aired on CBS.

In the early 70s, P&G only had two shows on NBC -- AW and Somerset. But P&G had four on CBS -- ATWT, GL, Search and Edge of Night.

Once shows started expanding to 60 minutes in 1975, it was impossible for P&G to insist that none of them compete with each other.

When the shows were 15 minutes, it would have been even easier.

Call me crazy but I would gladly take GL back over any of the remaining soaps. Even the Peapack version of GL.

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