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Celebrating the holidays in Bay City, Oakdale and Springfield

Darling, the holidays are almost upon us! They are truly the most wonderful time of the year. Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, New Years. So many exciting times to be had.

What are your plans for the holidays? Kidnapping? Murder? Blackmail? Extra-marital affair? An engagement? A divorce? A good food fight? Meeting a new love? Being trapped in a snowstorm while giving birth? Revenge against that long lost sibling?

My friend Ada Hobson in Bay City is busy in the kitchen cooking up fabulous treats, a dish towel permanently attached to her shoulder. Meanwhile Emma Snyder in Oakdale is occupied preparing a Hubbard squash. And of course my friend Bert Bauer in Springfield is offering grandmotherly advice and a shoulder to lean on.

I'm sure all along the way, Aunt Liz will have tons to gossip about. She'll eventually share it all with me. But why don't you beat Liz to it and tell me the gossip first! In other words, let's have a nice long CHAT.

So, pour yourself a cup of tea or a mug of egg nog and tell me what you know! I can't wait to hear!

Also feel free to talk about Monticello and Henderson here too. After all, they are part of those Magnificent Midwestern Cities.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 25502/23/2021

Holidays are my favorite time. Don't feel quite so lonely when I'm surrounded by family.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 111/14/2019

Denise Pence (Katie - Guiding Light) - Why I was fired from Guiding Light

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 211/14/2019

Thanks for posting the Denise Pence video. Fascinating.

I only started watching GL in 82. At that point Katie Parker was not very prominent on the show. And unfortunately, that would continue until they wrote Katie off in 1985.

But I do remember watching that scene she included in the video above where Louie proposes to Katie. Ahh, memories.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 311/14/2019

I always liked during Pam Long's tenure how elderly Nick, aka Santa Claus, would show up to give us a miracle at Christmas.

Seems like Phillip and Beth were reunited at Christmas thanks to Nick. Another year, a mute Beth got her voice back at Christmas thanks to Nick.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 411/14/2019

R4 YES! It was written into the stories brilliantly!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 511/14/2019

The Christmas when Beth came home was my first year watching GL. Also, Dylan Shayne Lewis was my first Secret Son character. I had no idea it was a soap cliche yet.

Also, was it at the Snowflake Ball that Josie lost Rachel's necklace at in Bay City? I can't find a video about the necklace, but here's the first time I saw Luke Perry.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 611/14/2019

I love Lucy. Aunt Liz, too.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 711/14/2019

See this Snowflake Ball scene with Matthew and Josie, as well as Rachel's reaction to Josie's running into a boy from the frat where she danced to get the money for her dress. Subtext I couldn't recognize at the time, as I'd only been watching a few months. It starts at 6:40.

And then we see the necklace, which Josie has dropped in the snow, at 8:24.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 811/14/2019

See this Snowflake Ball scene with Matthew and Josie, as well as Rachel's reaction to Josie's running into a boy from the frat where she danced to get the money for her dress. Subtext I couldn't recognize at the time, as I'd only been watching a few months. It starts at 6:40.

And then we see the necklace, which Josie has dropped in the snow, at 8:24.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 911/14/2019

I have such wonderful childhood memories of Christmas with Nancy and Chris Hughes.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1011/14/2019

Christmas in Oakdale, 1991.

1/5 opens with a “kiddo” from Kim.

That bitch, Marcy. What did she want with Linc?

Caleb proposes to Angel.

Courtney decorates Evan’s tree. EVAN’s?

Little Miss Seattle appears at the end of 2/5, on the phone in the SFK with Iva. Too cold for the Eavesdropping Porch Window to be open, but go to the top of 3/5 for Julie Wendall. How in the name of god did they decide to replace her with that blonde slut?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1111/14/2019

Jo tries to get through a very sad Christmas in Henderson.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1211/15/2019

And if you want to see me cry... the last Christmas in Henderson.

(Ohhhhh, when Stu cracks I die!)

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1311/15/2019

And since I am already crying, how about Mary Stuart's last Christmas as Meta?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1411/15/2019

GL did Christmas so well. Loved the Santa Claus and how, mostly, he was tied to Beth and Phillip. You knew when you saw him something big was going to happen.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 1511/15/2019

Yes, Nick and his Christmas miracles were primarily tied to Beth and Phillip. I don't recall him performing miracles for anyone else. And none of the writers besides Pam Long ever used Nick, as far as I recall. That's a shame because Nick was so special, such a nice touch at Christmas.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 1611/15/2019

ATWT Christmas 1985: Three trees at Lucinda's, Dusty/Lily/Holden, Craig and Sierra's brief happiness, Frannie's birthday at the Hughes', and furs, furs, furs! What more could I ever ask for?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 1711/15/2019

Nick, Santa Clause on GL, seemed to be mostly tied to Beth and for Beth. He eventually was written to be tied to the supercouple Beth/Phillip, though. He was glorious (MARY).

by Lucinda Walsh reply 1811/15/2019

Thank you, R12. Tapes of shows from those old days are rare and precious.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 1911/15/2019

the AW snowflake ball was memorable for me when Iris asked Mac oh, daddy, why doesn't anybody ever love me the way I love them?

Carmen Duncan (RIP) was never going to be Beverlee and after that moment she no longer needed to be. She was making Iris her own, her Iris and I thought she was great.

Matt Crane was the twinkiest twink who ever twinked on a soap. was surprised to learn he was straight, but then again I'm surprised to learn who's gay.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2011/16/2019

Tina Sloan has written a novel called "Chasing Cleopatra: A Novel of Love, Betrayal, and Suspense".

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2111/17/2019

Tina needed to do something while lying around that yacht in St. Tropez. Her husband is filthy rich.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2211/17/2019

By the time the show ended, Tina was the longest running cast member continually on the show.

What's really amazing is that they kept Lillian on the show even during the 86-98 period when Beth was presumed dead, and during the 91-97 period when Beth was living in Arizona.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2311/18/2019

Hard to imagine that the 35th anniversary of the final episode of Edge of Night is coming up on Dec. 28.

35 years! Amazing.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 2411/18/2019

R23 Tina is tied with Jerry Ver Dorn for second place as "GL's" longest running cast member with 26 years after Charita Bauer with 32 years. Maureen Garrett and Michael Zaslow came back after lengthy breaks, and Too many actors who joined in the 1980's and stayed on and off until the end were gone for years at a time: Peter Simon, Kim Zimmer, Robert Newman, Maeve Kinkhead, Grant Aleksander, Michael O'Leary. It's unclear how many actual years that Ellen Demming (Meta Bauer) was on the show because she apparently was off during that period (1953-1974) for several years at a time. I believe that Frank Dicopoulos would be in 3rd place with 22 years consecutively, tied according to my calculations with Maureen Garrett. Of the actors who joined in the 1990's, only Liz Keifer, Justin Deas and Ron Raines remained 15 years or more without a break. (I may have forgotten somebody, but can't think off hand who they would be.) Don Stewart (Mike Bauer) and William Roerick (Henry Chamberlain) also had stints lasting 15 years or more.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2511/18/2019

I'm here, darlings. I was slumming on the Diane Ballard thread I created a few hours before this one, but what a nice idea, the holidays in our marvelous Midwestern towns!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2611/18/2019

I've watched this 100 times and can still never get through it without tears.

The whole episode is great (Pam Long knew how to fill those stories with heart at the holidays) but the scene at around 53:00 where Lillian finally sees Beth alive is....everything.

Tears.

MARY!

And then at the end, my favorite GL tradition. This, to be honest, is a good signpost to see when the best of GL was and when it was a creative, friendly place to work....the years they did the singalong at the end. Those were the years that money was still in the budgets and people were happy to be there and create. (Sadly, we never saw a singalong like this in the 2000s. The rights to a Christmas song would have been too much, I guess.)

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 2711/18/2019

Oh, God. That episode was thirty years ago.

Oh, my heart. *sobs*

by Lucinda Walsh reply 2811/18/2019

The Denise Pence videos are interesting. She seems to have been really on the Dobson's team, and didn't care much for Marland's era or Pam Long and Gail Kobe.

I mean, I can see it all from her point of view, but she's kinda overstating her character's importance on the canvas a wee bit....

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 2911/18/2019

So, is this thread already on lock down?

People have to post here to keep it active. Share your P&G memories.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3011/21/2019

Someone posted a GL line in the Best TV lines thread.

I was shocked!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3111/21/2019

When GL was good, it was out of this world. I even loved the Marian Crane storyline. It was so shocking yet had so much dark humor laced in. Add the superb performances and it was an engrossing story.

Too many bad recasts in later years ruined many characters- Alan, Blake, Alex, Mindy. I originally didn't care for the Beth recast but Beth C won me over. She was drop dead gorgeous-as Beth was always written to be-and even in the first go around when Beth turned up alive, had a certain way she delivered her lines that gave Beth a bit of a bite but with a wry sense of humor. Judi Evans could deliver a great, biting line when sparing with Alan or India but not always with a sense of humor. I think Beth and India would have been great sparing partners had Judi not delivered her lines to India with disdain or as a mere nuisance. Her Beth was never threatened by India nor seemed to have an ounce of respect for her.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3211/21/2019

r31 ORD dear. I was busy eavesdropping on someone else and missed it.

Please share the line with us here. That will also help keep the conversation going, which is the objective of the thread.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3311/21/2019

r32 India was originally envisioned to be Beth's cousin.

But when Mary Kay Adams auditioned, she was just too sophisticated to play the lower middle class character, so they changed the India character to better suit Mary Kay. Thus we got the wonderful India von Halkein.

And then two years later, they gave Beth a cousin in the form of bland Jessie Matthews. As I recall, Beth and Jessie didn't have many scenes together.

Can you imagine Mary Kay playing Jessie?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 3411/21/2019

They missed so many golden opportunities with Beth. Instead of raping the character all over again with writing her as a slutty nut, they could have gone in many different and more interesting directions. Beth was not weak during the Judi or Beth C's first go around. They brought her back as a weak willed neurotic which was a huge slap to what the character had been. Beth was part of two iconic story lines as well as two iconic super couples. The writing for the character from 97 on was everything wrong with GL in later years.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3511/21/2019

Aunt Liz r33, this is the post ORD R31 was referring to (from the "Best Lines in Television History" thread):

[quote]Holly Lindsey (Maureen Garrett) gave this great speech when asked to explain what she meant about Ed Bauer's (Peter Simon) daughter Michelle (Rachel Miner) feeling 'betrayed' after her mother Maureen's (Ellen Parker) death (not knowing Ed's infidelity inadvertently led to Maureen's death):

[quote][italic]“Haven’t you ever felt so hurt and so lost that anything anybody said just sounded hollow and beside the point. And didn’t it ever seem to you that if the people who supposedly care about you are still standing around making sympathetic noises instead of falling over paralyzed like you are then they really don’t get it -- because if they felt the way you felt then, the world would stop, the sun would freeze in the sky, and they wouldn’t be able to do or say anything the way they had ever done it before. So, either you’ve got it all wrong yourself or you have been completely betrayed by the people who promised to always love you and care and understand…that’s what I meant…that’s more than I meant.”[/italic]

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3611/21/2019

MARY!!!!!!!

Tee hee.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3711/21/2019

R36

Gorgeous dialogue.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3811/21/2019

R34

That's Rebecca Staub. She married her GL co-star. I can't remember his real name but he played Simon to her Jessie.

She's the long time partner of GH's William De Vry.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 3911/21/2019

[quote] Gorgeous dialogue

As unnecessary as Maureen's death was, it WAS some of the best dialogue the show ever had. The Mo/Ed scenes were amazing and overdue.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4011/21/2019

[quote] That's Rebecca Staub. She married her GL co-star. I can't remember his real name but he played Simon to her Jessie.

That was Shawn Thompson who played Simon. His most notable credit outside of Canada was as Corny Collins in the original "Hairspray."

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4111/21/2019

Beth was a great character but she was over played there for awhile. She was insanely popular but it was over kill for some. I am still surprised how she went from a crazy hot story about rape to a super couple in a very popular four way friendship to literally months later in another crazy popular super couple. I wonder how Judi would have played things out if she has reprised the role.

How did they not have Beth and Nick EVER meet? THIS is how fucked up GL got in later years that they didn't MAKE this happen.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4211/21/2019

r35 Nice analysis. I adored the Beth of the 80s and early 90. Both Judi and Beth did a great job as Beth.

I was not a fan of the Beth who returned to Springfield in 1997. Even though Beth Chamberlain played her still, it was a different character. The idea that she would let Carl abuse her after everything she'd overcome was nuts to me.

That's one of the many reasons I didn't like Barbara Essenstein and James Harmon Brown as HW. Vastly overrated. They kept trying to fuck with history like this instance, which made me dislike them even more.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4311/21/2019

R36, that bit of dialogue is one of my favorite pieces of writing ever. The characterization of grief strikes to the bone and was so fitting for how Holly felt betrayed by Ross and Blake. GL’s writing at that time was incredible, those writers played every beat and nuance. I still miss it after all this time. Sigh.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4411/21/2019

Aunt Liz, I happened upon some 1995 Christmas in Oakdale videos the other day. I thought I had posted one of them. I guess I just [italic]thought[/italic] about it. It appears to have been Andy's last episode, though I'm not absolutely certain. It does feature Dr. Bob reading "The Night Before Christmas," a meaningful goodbye between Andy and Mike, and Brenda Lee's "Rocking around the Christmas Tree."

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 4511/21/2019

[quote] That bit of dialogue is one of my favorite pieces of writing ever. The characterization of grief strikes to the bone and was so fitting for how Holly felt betrayed by Ross and Blake

The scenes where Holly told Blake she didn't love her were also so, so good. Not histrionics for the sake of them, but digging into real hurt and insecurity, and SO well scripted.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 4611/22/2019

[quote]Ross and Blake

Thank you for not calling them "Bloss."

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4711/22/2019

Does anyone know the reason for Denise Pence recording those videos? It's interesting but I wonder what made her do them

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4811/22/2019

r48 Denise said on the video that with the advent of social media, fans had found her. Even 25+ years after she left the show, they still had questions about what happened to Katie. Thus, she created the video.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 4911/22/2019

Patrick Mulcahey was one of the GL script writers in the 1992-94. He is known for his amazing dialogue. I imagine he wrote those scenes.

Mulcahey also wrote for Santa Barbara for most of its run, and was noted for some of its best scenes (especially Mason Capwell's delicious monologues).

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 5011/22/2019

I truly enjoyed Marj Dusay's Alexandra in spite of the fact that after two years, they basically stopped writing for her which lead her into a corner, and after her "All My Children" stint, the writers seemed to want her to play a less criminally inclined version of Vanessa even though the drug ring was a major rip-off of the Proteus story. In the mid 1980's, Marj and Beverlee overlapped as society queens both on "Capitol" and "GL", and you'd get a preview of Beverlee as Alexandra during "Capitol" or a preview of Marj as Myrna during "Guiding Light". In my market (L.A.) they aired back to back on CBS so when Marj was cast, I was thrilled.

I've always heard that Marj as an actress was a complete team player, didn't complain or act diva-ish, did what she was assigned to do, and went on with her life. Beverlee had a decade of experience doing Iris on "Another World" while Marj was a prime time regular, appearing in dozens of crime shows and sitcoms during the 1970's and 80's (overlapping her "Capitol" and "Santa Barbara" days) so Marj basically went along with the flow of her career without making waves and thus made a lot of friends, especially among the crew. Beverlee was more theatrical so she probably made more suggestions as far as scripts were concerned, even though she never had tantrums. When she just got tired of it, she quit. Louise Sorel said about Marj that while other actresses could be difficult, Marj would simply do what the script called for then go off set and pray for the best when she knew the scripts were horrible. I've always thought that Marj was like the Barbara Stanwyck of daytime while Beverlee was closer to the Bette Davis, minus the screaming.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5111/22/2019

I, too, was thrilled when Marj was cast to replace Beverlee. I'd adored her as Myra Clegg on Capitol and Pamela Capwell on Santa Barbara, so I thought it was great casting.

And for the first two years or so, it was. Problems began with (1) bringing back Alan and (2) letting Vince Irrizary go as Nick. With the loss of Nick, suddenly, Alex's main focus was gone. And when the show brought Alan back, they made him the head of the Spaulding family and made Alex his subordinate.

Although the show tried to do some sibling rivalry betwen Alan and Alex, the writing just wasn't there to pull it off well. And then that ridiculous Amanda is really Alan's sister not his daughter plot further disintegrated Alex's place within the family.

When they brought Alex back in 2002, it was good to have her around, but she was essentially a talk-to character from that point on. And Marj started taking her portrayal over the top (something Robin Strasser was also guilty of doing during her final years as Dorian on OLTL). Directors didn't reign her in and the writers kept writer her like a cartoon.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5211/22/2019

[quote] Although the show tried to do some sibling rivalry betwen Alan and Alex, the writing just wasn't there to pull it off well.

And Marj, who is capable of a great deal, was acting opposite Ron Raines, a bland block of wood who was at best a pale imitation of the magnificent Chris Bernau.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5311/22/2019

Thank you r11. This video brought me so much joy. I had such a cozy feeling watching ATWT. I don't think anything has every come close to replicating it in quite the same way.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5411/22/2019

When they had to recast Alex, the only two people I could think of who might be up for the task were Marj Dusay and Marla Adams.

Interestingly, Marla was the temp recast of Myrna Clegg on Capitol when Carolyn Jones became too sick to play the role, before they cast Marj in the role. That was my first exposure to Marla and she was mesmerizingly fierce.

And while I thought Marla was good as Dina Abbott Mergeron on Y&R, I also thought Bill Bell never used Marla to her full potential. Alexandre would have been a role worthy of her talents. Would have loved to have seen Marla's Alex go up against Michael Zaslow's Roger Thorpe.

Wonder if Marla was considered for the part of Alex.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5511/22/2019

[quote]was acting opposite Ron Raines, a bland block of wood who was at best a pale imitation of the magnificent Chris Bernau.

I agree that Ron Raines couldn't hold a candle to Chris Bernau.

But who else could they have cast in the role? What established actors in their late 40s/early 50s in 1995 could have done justice to the role of Alan?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5611/22/2019

[quote] What established actors in their late 40s/early 50s in 1995 could have done justice to the role of Alan?

I think the mistake GL made is they went first for someone who looked like Chris Bernau (Daniel Pilon) and then to Ron, who had a deep voice. But they never captured that sort of Gothic nefariousness of Alan. James Mitchell (Palmer on AMC) had it too, and it's no coincidence Bernau and Mitchell were gay men.

I don't know if someone in daytime would have had that kind of persona. Perhaps an older Roscoe Born would have nailed it, though he was more the age of Grant A than of Alan Spaulding.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5711/22/2019

Louis Edmonds, fittingly, had that same Gothic nefariousness.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5811/22/2019

I loved the Christmas episodes on ATWT- back when people still had living rooms.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 5911/22/2019

R51 here. Loving the responses to my comment! Here's Marla and Marj together on a TV game show. I agree that Marj could go overboard in Alexandra's tense scenes, but she was very subtle as a much more nefarious character on "Capitol" and really deserved an Emmy nomination for that part. She did get two Soap Opera Digest nominations for that role. I loved the way that Marla Adams said "Sam" (Myrna's husband) and even though there are no English language videos of her performance, her voice remains in my mind from episodes that aired in 1983. I remember her entrance into the Abbott house and the chemistry she had with Terry Lester. (Terry also played Mason on "Santa Barbara", but Marj didn't appear during that time, only returning for a week when Gordon Thompson took over.) Joan Collins of course temporarily played Alexandra, which I watched out of curiosity; She had appeared with Carolyn Jones in "The Opposite Sex". (More "Six Degrees of Soap-a-Ration" for you, folks!)

Marla is doing a bang-up job on "Y&R" (when she is on; She apparently just recovered from heart surgery), but I wish Marj would come back to daytime for a guest stint of some kind. I heard a while back that she had some major health issues but was doing well. She went through a lot with the death of her son from AIDS related causes, and as a result, became very active in fund raising and other charitable events surrounding the search for a cure. I'm watching "The Doctors" in re-runs where Jada Rowland (Marla's rival from "The Secret Storm") is going through an ordeal after being kidnapped and raped, and really wish there were episodes of her and Marla together on "The Secret Storm" together. I did see a commercial with Marla and Lori March out there, but I wish there were episodes from the last decade available of that and "Love of Life". (The entire last week of "LOL" is out there thanks to Chandler Hill Harben, and there's a 1976 episode w/John Aniston, Tudi Wiggins and Christopher Reeve.) Fortunately, some "Edge of Night" episodes from 1975-76 have turned up showcasing the fabulous Louise Shaffer. There's also a lengthy piece of a 1972 "As the World Turns" episode that focuses on Ellen (Patricia Bruder).

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 6011/22/2019

I've always been of the opinion that Marj is very talented, and the issues with her portrayal of Alex happened later and were mostly due to bad or nonexistent writing and direction. She did "get" Alex, totally, in her earlier runs in the role.

I met her at an event years ago and she is smart and fascinating. Hope she's doing well, health wise.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6111/22/2019

I watched Capitol from the beginning for Carolyn Jones (ok...and Nicholas Walker) and never could accept Marj. When she came to GL she could not win me over again.

Oddly, I did buy Joan Collins as Alex. She was wonderful.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6211/22/2019

[quote]Oddly, I did buy Joan Collins as Alex. She was wonderful.

I bow to no one in my admiration for Beverlee McKinsey, but Joan Collins as Alex won me over from scene one. Marj never did.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6311/22/2019

Marj Dusay is beautiful and a good actress but she's often the replacement actress. (Myrna Clegg, Pamela Capwell, Alex) They probably would have had her as Lucinda if Liz Hubbard left and they wanted to keep the character going.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6411/22/2019

Hell, Dusay wasn't even Blair's first mom on "The Facts of Life."

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6511/22/2019

thanks for posting, R24, I think I still have the original and the USA broadcast of the finales on VHS somewhere. All those tapes are clunky and take up room and I'll probably keep them forever ever after I get around to transferring them to DVD (a VHS tape has never said 'disc error' - sigh).

The opening disco theme, I loved. So tragic that the actors who played Chief Mallory, Calvin and Miles all died from AIDS (tho specific causes may have differed). I was just starting to come of age and the message in the 80s was clear: gay = AIDS = death.

So fucking sad.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6611/22/2019

For some reason the character of Detective Wyatt crossed my mind today. He was a recurring character on GL and was played wonderfully by Joe Ponacezki. According to IMDB he died a couple years ago at the age of 84. Wonder if he was family.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6711/22/2019

R67 I remember him primarily from the Diane Ballard murder trial. He was brought back years later and I believe he actually dated Lillian!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6811/22/2019

[quote] I remember him primarily from the Diane Ballard murder trial. He was brought back years later and I believe he actually dated Lillian!

I think you may be right. Larry Wyatt and Lillian! Funny memories.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 6911/22/2019

Yeah, I remember Wyatt being on around the time Rusty Shayne was a cop. Somewhere in there Lillian dated him and Hawk Shayne too.

As I remember it, they even had Alexandra go out on dates (bowling?) with either Hawk or HB. Poor Beverlee....they really stuck her with some geezers when she was still relatively young. (I mean, she was just shy of 50 when she started at GL - the age that, for example, Kristian Alfonso is now.)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7011/22/2019

R24's clip made me giggle. Who were those hosts of the local style show? Eeek!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7111/22/2019

[quote] As I remember it, they even had Alexandra go out on dates (bowling?) with either Hawk or HB. Poor Beverlee....they really stuck her with some geezers when she was still relatively young. (I mean, she was just shy of 50 when she started at GL - the age that, for example, Kristian Alfonso is now.)

They briefly paired her up with Mike Bauer which was a non-starter too. I remember a scene of him taking her on a plane ride.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7211/22/2019

Don Stewart's daughter is a veterinarian.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 7311/22/2019

[quote] They briefly paired her up with Mike Bauer which was a non-starter too. I remember a scene of him taking her on a plane ride.

Pam Long and Gail Kobe originally intended Alexandra to be paired with Mike, playing on the bad blood between the Bauers and Spauldings from Alan and Hope.

But Don Stewart put the kibosh on that, as he'd had young 20 and 30 somethings through his career as co-stars and did not want to be paired with McKinsey, who was the same age. (I suspect he also realized that McKinsey's acting capabilities would have not flattered his appealing but more limited range.)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7411/22/2019

R60

Wow! Marla was gorgeous on that game show. I had no idea.

Who the hell is the actor paired with Marg? His first name was Todd but I couldn't make out his last name. His look is the epitome of 80's porn star

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7511/22/2019

Great scene and clip where Alexandra Spaulding (Marj Dusay) Crushes Annie Dutton Like A Bug

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 7611/22/2019

R75 His name is Todd Curtis. He was on Capitol as Jordy Clegg and then YR as Skip.

At some point he was in a bad accident and had cuts on his face, something that I think was part of his story on Capitol AND YR. His character on YR was a photographer and he ended up marrying Carol, the dull secretary.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 7711/22/2019

Hubbard squash, like the Snyders used to make.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 7811/22/2019

r78 Remember the year they had Lucinda cut it up?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 7911/22/2019

R79 I do! The irony, of course.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8011/22/2019

"Marj Dusay is beautiful and a good actress but she's often the replacement actress. (Myrna Clegg, Pamela Capwell, Alex) They probably would have had her as Lucinda if Liz Hubbard left"

Just the thought of Hubbard leaving the role of Lucinda-- and ANYONE else replacing her-- strikes fear in my heart all these years later!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8111/22/2019

Liz Hubbard will be eighty six years old next month!

Interesting that quite a few of ATWT's actresses - Liz, Kathy Hays, Eileen Fulton - are all the same age (within a few months). Kathy was born in July 1933, Eileen in September and Liz in December.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8211/22/2019

I'm glad Kathy is still with us, but she has aged quite a bit since ATWT ended 9 years ago. She may have been ill at some point, as she looks rail thin.

(I think she moved back to IL so that family could assist her - I'm sure living in NYC was not great for a woman of her age.)

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 8311/22/2019

^^^^

Yes, she had been ill and lost a lot of weight. Someone here posted a pic on one of the earlier threads & it was shocking how horrific she looked.

2-3 months ago someone posted an update & she looked the picture of health. She'd gained all her weight back & she was out and about in her new town going to the theatre

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8411/22/2019

Reading the posts from earlier today regarding candidates for who might have made a good Alexandra.

What do you think about Constance Towers?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8511/22/2019

I'm intrigued by the discussion of who they could have cast as Alan Spaulding in 1995 instead of Ron Raines. Upthread it was mentioned that it had to be someone in his mid 40s to mid 50s who was capable of playing Gothic scenes.

Two people come to mind in that age range who could have pulled off Gothic type scenes. Don't know if either would have been exactly right as Alan, but they could certainly do Gothic.

Gordon Thomson and Larkin Malloy.

Interestingly enough, both were gay IRL, just like all the others listed above who were capable of playing Gothic scenes.

Yes, I know, Larkin had already played Kyle Sampson on GL. That role was not a good fit for him. Try as I might, I never liked Larkin as Kyle. And I don't think Larkin was happy in the role either because he bolted as soon as his 2-year contract was up. However, Sky Whitney on Edge was a perfect role for Larkin -- part cad, part hero, part romantic leading man, part villain -- and Alan Spaulding would have been cut from a similar mold.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8611/22/2019

r85 Constance could have been good as Alexandra. Certainly a strong actress. Hard to imagine she is the same person who played two such different characters -- Helena Cassadine on GH and Clarissa McCandless on Capitol.

I don't know that Constance could have gotten all the subtleties that Beverlee brought to the role of Alex. I don't know that Constance could have humanized Alex and made us really care about her since Beverlee's Alex was capable of both intense affection and fierce cruelty, often showing both within seconds of each other. Alex was so multi-faceted, which is what made the role so complex and so hard to recast.

Having said that, I will admit I was quite skeptical when they cast Constance as Helena in 1997 and I was proven wrong about it.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8711/22/2019

I remember Soap Opera Weekly running a piece on who could play Alex. Beverlee had said in her exit interview w/Michael Logan that she could think of 10 actresses who could play her, so they tried to come up with a list of ten.

If I remember right, Constance and Marla Adams were both on that list, as well as Marj. So was Robin Strasser and, maybe Louise Sorel? I can't remember who else.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8811/23/2019

Marj's son was dying of AIDS when she joined GL. You could see her a bit haggard shortly thereafter, totally understandable.

I too loved Joan Collins as Alexandra - and for certain it made Kim Zimmer furious.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 8911/23/2019

How about Nick Benedict for Alan.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 9011/23/2019

A bit too "rugged and outdoorsy" looking IMO, R90.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9111/23/2019

[quote] Marj's son was dying of AIDS when she joined GL. You could see her a bit haggard shortly thereafter, totally understandable.

I think he died in 1994, but yes, that would have been about six months to a year after his passing. From a 1995 LA Times article:

When Marj Dusay took on the coveted role of Alexandra Spaulding on “Guiding Light,” she faced the daunting task of replacing Beverlee McKinsey, an actress many thought as irreplaceable. Notably, Dusay’s portrayal, which gives new meaning to, “It is just an honor being nominated,” earned her a Daytime Emmy nomination for outstanding lead actress this year. Following in McKinsey’s shadow, Dusay says, “I’ve always felt once you’re doing a part, it is yours anyway. If you let the psychology of it say it’s not, you’re doomed. I couldn’t work if I let her ghost follow me around.

“It was still nice,” she adds, ‘when I started getting letters from her fans saying they love me now, too.” Getting a nomination, says Dusay, “was a wonderful surprise since I didn’t have a big long-term story. I’ve just set up an excursion with the wardrobe department to find something to wear [to the May 19 awards ceremony]. I never wear formal clothing--mainly khakis and jeans--so, unless I go like that, we need to find something.”

The reels she submitted to the Emmy committee include the episodes when Alexandra tried to dupe Holly Lindsey (Maureen Garrett) into believing she had seduced Roger Thorpe (Michael Zaslow), and the episode that takes place on an airplane when Alexandra’s brother, Alan Spaulding (Ron Raines), told her that he was not really dying. Alexandra, in turn, nearly killed him for tricker her before both end up hysterically laughing.

“I don’t think they planned the scene that way,” says Dusay, “but we shuffled it around. It showed her joy that he was to live as well as their reversion to childhood.”

When we noted that because of the incredible chemistry she shares with Raines, it is a shame they cannot be lovers, she says with a laugh, “That’s what my Aunt Tilly says. She wants it to turn out that we are not really related. It could happen, you know. Our father Brandon had a checkered past.”

“The chemistry keeps it tenuous,” she continues. “There’s always something just under the surface in all familial relationships--a fascination and a curiosity. It’s the one candy bar you can’t have. For characters like Alexandra and Alan, that’s reason enough to want it in some way.”

Dusay’s castmate Maeve Kinkead (who plays Vanessa Chamberlain) was also nominated in the same category, but Dusay is undaunted.

“Maeve called me and e talked about it,” she says. “I just love her story and respect her and her work so much that it’s no problem. I’ve judged these; it’s all subjective--from the scenes picked to the attitudes of the judges on any given day. It is not a mathematical equation. “I’m not competitive in that I want to work, but I don’t want to take something away from someone else. I know how hard this job is.”

Soon after the awards, Dusay will look forward to the opening of “Ciao Yu,” a movie she made on the streets of New York City that is set to open in June.

It’s being put out by the same people who did “The Wedding Banquet” and “Eat, Drink, Man, Woman,” Dusay explains.

“The two stars are from Taiwan,” she adds, “Daniel J. Travanti [Frank Furillo on “Hill Street Blues”] and Spence Andrews [“General Hospital,” 1979] and I are the American actors. “The actress, who plays Travanti’s longtime love and nightclub singer, adds, “Yes, I do my own singing.”

When she is away from the studio, Dusay spends her spare time playing grandma to her granddaughter Deena. Sadly, Dusay lost her son, Randall, to AIDS last year and two months ago her daughter (Deena’s mother), Deborah, had brain surgery and is now recovering.

Says Dusay: “There have been some rough times of late, but I’m reminded every day to spend whatever time I have with my family. I’m blesses to have spent time with these beautiful human beings.”

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9211/23/2019

I remember Weekly doing a very wonderful interview with Marj after Randy died.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9311/23/2019

I believe Christine Tudor, who played Gwyneth on Loving, also auditioned for Alexandra. She could have been interesting as Alex, she could definitely do the icy/steely thing but she also showed great range when Gwyn flipped out and murdered half of Corinth.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9411/23/2019

As far as a replacement Alan, what about Peter Brown? I enjoyed him as Dr. Greg Peters on Days of our Lives.

At least he wouldn't have looked like he was just waiting for the cue to break out in song, like Ron Raines...

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 9511/23/2019

I think they looked at Peter Brown, R95. So your guess is good.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9611/23/2019

Marj was a terrible Alex. Just ruined the character. I thought Jane Elliott was considered?

Ron Raines was also terrible. Casting was very spotty for GL from the mid-90's on when before they often struck gold.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9711/23/2019

Jane would've made a great Alex but she had already been Carrie on GL.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9811/23/2019

R98 I don't think that would have been an issue.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 9911/23/2019

Chris Bernau as Alan was my favorite soap performer/character ever! Loved the slow-burning story that went on for years where Mike Bauer was trying to prove Alan was involved in some crime. The soaps of the 90s and onward never had stories like that that lasted for years and ebbed and flowed, moving from the background to the foreground and back again. Alan was perpetually hassled and annoyed by Mike.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10011/23/2019

In addition to being mid 40s to mid 50s in 1995 and capable of handling Gothic storyline, the actor playing Alan should also be capable of doing a suave, urban sophistication. Who projects that his is to the manor born.

That said, Larkin Malloy and Gordon Thompson could do all that. We'd seen that in previous roles they played.

Nicholas Benedict, as much as he filled my fantasies as a gayling, has the outdoorsy feel as stated above. Can't see him competently pulling off to the manor born. In his roles on AMC and Y&R, every time his character put on a tuxedo, it just felt wrong.

Peter Brown could do anything, from a cowboy to a hot shot lawyer. I think he was one of the most versatile actors daytime ever had. He could surely handle Gothic, suave, sophisticated and upper crust easily. However, he would have been 60 in 1995 when they were recasting Alan. But age is all relative in soaps . . .

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10111/23/2019

Can you imagine the possibilities of Gordon Thompson as Alan and Joan Collins as Alexandra? GL squandered so many opportunies in its last 15 years or so.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10211/23/2019

Joe Ponacezki as Det. Wyatt is a great example of soaps hiring character actors that bring believability to storylines.

Nothing takes me out of the moment than when a model is brought in to play a security guard when you know that it should be played by a fat 54 year old guy.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10311/23/2019

Will never forget Sofia Landon Grier (sp?) as Diane holding her hands up to her hair and yelling at Alan: "I have the TAPES...from MORENO!"

whatever they were, Alan was screwed, but then Diane was soon dead and then Joe Bradley

GL was a top five show in the heyday of Luke & Laura. How great did it have to be to get those kind of numbers against a juggernaut?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10411/23/2019

I see what you mean about Larkin and Alan, but I couldn't get out of my head that he was Kyle.

When Reva came back from the dead and crashed a masquerade ball at the country club at the holidays, the men were not nibbling at her the way they would in the past; they were going to pair her with Buzz I guess. Reva went around the club and tried to get a few men to dance with her; she asked Fletcher (who was there with Holly) for a dance 'in honor of Kyle and Maeve...'

It'd been 7 years since Maeve had been mentioned, longer for Kyle; Zimmer brought such gravitas to the delivery. Moments like that give longtime viewers a through line.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10511/23/2019

Jane Elliot left GH in 1992/1993 and was slated for a role at ATWT, but Doug Marland's death put the kibosh on that. (Supposedly, Jane would have played a character with Jeanne Cooper as her mother, as Jeanne was willing to leave YR for something new.)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10611/23/2019

[quote] Marj was a terrible Alex. Just ruined the character.

This debate has been had here to death, but I always defend Marj's early stint as Alex. She was a very good Alex in that whole 1993-95ish stretch.

It was later, and especially after she left, went to AMC and came back, that the performance was not as strong, but the writing for Alex by that point was awful.....peaking with her wearing a wig to gaslight Reva or some shit like that. Ov, vey.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10711/23/2019

I had hopes for Marj when she first started but later she did that whole gasping in every scene like she had asthma or something. I'm not saying Alex was un-recastable -- I loved Carmen Duncan as Iris, so it could be done -- but you have to find the right actress for the part. Marj wasn't it.

As a long time GL viewer, I wouldn't have wanted Elliot as Alex or Larkin as Alan -- Zaslow was considered for the role of Alan in 1988 or '89; someone thought with nearly a decade passing since he played Roger it'd be okay, but Zaslow said no. So they brought back Roger; clearly the right choice; could you imagine if Maureen Garrett caming back and had scenes with Zaslow's Alan? Just plain wrong.

I loved GL in many incarnations. I barely remember the Dobson era but it drew me in. I loved Marland's run -- Vanessa and Henry were special and survived several regimes after Doug left. Nola was classic. When I saw Long and Kobe writing out the last of Doug's characters or changing them, I was like ug. No way will I like this. Well, this lady who played Echo on OLTL as this Reva...she's entertaining....and I do like the young set, especially hottie Phillip. Wow AW's Iris is here as Alan's sister. That's smart. And this force of nature playing her stepdaughter...you get the idea. I loved the Long/Kobe era. And the second Long era was glorious, too.

I liked the Reilly/Demorest/Curlee era es[ecially Alex's takedown or Roger at the Country Club. Maureen's death was so raw. I'm okay with it, but the show should have brought back Hope and Claire to fill the void. They didn't. We got Buzz and so many other actors from Santa Barbara. Tangie? Ug. The show tanked 1993 and 1994. I liked most of what Megan did. Josh and Reva on the Spaulding jet was worth the wait. I had mixed feelings on Annie, but Watros' meltdown on the witness stand made it worth it. Moniz' Dinah was too harsh. Hated re-writing Amanda's paternity. (WHY?) When Grant came back as Phillip ALL the Spauldings had been recast - he only worked with Hearst for a little bit in 1990.

As the 90s progressed the show seemed to make all the wrong moves; India and Ben (Hunt Block) were wasted and the show officially lost me with San Cristobel and the Santos clan taking over. From then on there were only a few highlights; Ed and Vanessa had a nice scene. I did like Phillip and Olivia and Joan Collins as Alexandra. Matt Bomer was a find, but the show should have brought back Larkin as Kyle, his dad, and Meg Mundy as Julia, Maeve's mom. The show lost all their families, it seemed.

Cassie was no Roxie. I preferred Lizzie's dog Roxie to Cassie. I hear she's a nice lady and ironically a BIG Gl fan, but Liz Keifer just wasn't Blakey enough for me.

The show ended as best it could given the constraints. Was thrilled that Phillip came back. That kid who played James wasn't a good actor (cute though) so revisiting the Alan/Phillip dynamic with James wasn't really working. Loved all the cameos towards the end. Can't believe it's been over a year since it's been gone. Thank goodness for dvds, vhs, and youtube.

Sorry for the rant. The show was special. My own family life was a mess (join the club, I know); seeing characters love each other and act like families should was a godsend.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10811/23/2019

can't believe it's been over a DECADE since GL has been gone (not a year)

other highlights were Beth and Phillip reconnecting on the plane and making love.

It was inane that we never saw Alan Michael's reaction to Philip and Harley marrying. There was much to be mined there.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 10911/23/2019

Jeanne and Kay got pushed to the backburner on Y&R circa 1992/93; I had heard that Cooper went on a talk show at the 1992 Emmys and was asked about Braeden attacking Bergman; there was a gag order and she could have said no comment; we're here to celebrate the emmys, but God Bless Jeanne she went off...the powers that be were pissed.

I could see her jumping ship and going to ATWT. Doug would have made it work, but he was so top heavy with older women: Kathy Hays, Liz Hubbard, Eileen Fulton, Kathleen Widdoes, and Anne Sward (the Lyla/Casey romance story played heavily in the episodes that won ATWT best soap in 1987 at the daytime emmys).

Patricia Bruder wasn't as frontburner as she had been in the past, but the woman could deliver...

Adding Cooper AND Elliot? That would have made things crowded.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11011/23/2019

Chris Bernau had the "to the manor born" thing down perfectly. You could tell in every scene that Alan felt himself above the rest. It just oozed out of him that he was superior. From body language to vocal inflection to his very word choices, Bernau's Alan conveyed his superiority constantly. Likewise, whenever Alan had to do something he felt was beneath him, you could feel it.

Ron Raines never captured that in his performances. One of the many reasons he wasn't right for Alan.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11111/24/2019

R110

What did Jeanne say about the Peter/Eric altercation?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11211/24/2019

Cooper recalls the ATWT possibility thusly in her book. Apparently, Terry Lester introduced her to Marland.

It was also Terry who saw to it that I met the “Bill Bell of As the World Turns,” the extraordinary head writer Douglas Marland. Terry had left The Young and the Restless in 1989 for reasons too idiotic to go into, and after a brief stint on Santa Barbara, he’d signed on for a role on As the World Turns, which Douglas Marland had created just for him. When Terry introduced us at a party at his house, I said, and meant it, “It’s an honor to meet you. I’m a huge fan of yours.” As luck would have it, he was a fan of mine too, and by the end of the conversation he told me he’d love to create a part for me as well, if I’d be willing to do it.

I wasn’t about to say no to Douglas Marland, and frankly the thought of moving to New York, where I’d always dreamed of living, tackling a part written just for me by the likes of him, not to mention working with Terry again, sounded almost too good to be true. “Doug,” I said, “you write it and I’ll be there.” After which Douglas Marland flew back to New York and promptly died of a heart attack. The loss to daytime television was and is incalculable . . . and once the shock wore off, I couldn’t help but selfishly feel a little robbed and wonder what could have happened.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11311/24/2019

[quote] Cassie was no Roxie

This is one of those top ten headscratchers of later GL, along with "Why did Nick never see Beth or Phillip?"

Roxie had been gone for a considerable amount of time by then and could have easily been recast.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11411/24/2019

The Beth/Nick thing is completely unforgivable.

I always loved Beth and CB's Alan scenes. He could not get under Beth's skin no matter how he tried and she always said something to get under his. You could tell Alan respected her and understood why Phillip loved her but felt she was below his class.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11511/24/2019

Years later I could never buy that Beth & Alan married. That was straight bullshit.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11611/24/2019

R116 For too many reasons to list.

Or that Beth would have allowed Alan inside her to produce Payton.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11711/24/2019

Christopher Bernau just had such a presence. As did Beverlee McKinsey. They were absolute gold together. Chris was by far her most exciting screen partners after Victoria Wyndham and Douglass Watson (and, okay, the actresses that played the maids that Iris had.)

And of course she was also magic with both Vincent Irizarry and, to a lesser extent, with Grant Aleksander.

But CB and Bev in a room together - that, you could make an hour show out of, or a two act play. So good.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11811/24/2019

The Beth/Alan thing towards the end was what anybody needed to know about how GL lost it. They really did rape the character of Beth over and over again. And it made no sense.

And I loved how Christopher's Alan had such an opposite reaction to Beth as Bev's Alex. Alex welcomed her as a daughter. Alex loved her deeply. That is another relationship they let wane in the latter years.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 11911/24/2019

What was the name of Alex's longtime maid? I loved how she'd call Alex "Peanut".

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12011/25/2019

R120 Vera

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12111/25/2019

Vera was played by the wonderful Frances Foster, an accomplished stage actress.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 12211/25/2019

I enjoyed Carrie Nye in both of her stints on "Guiding Light" playing equally wacky women who were probably separated at birth, but Susan Piper was by far the better story. The Caroline Carruthers story was basically a retread of the Brandon/Henry/H.B./Bill story from 1983 involving Eli Sims and his wife (Harley Kozak played this role in flashbacks, in addition to Annabelle) involving younger members of the Spaulding, Lewis and Bauer families. But Carrie Nye was an absolute hoot. She looked exactly the same in 2004 as she had in 1994, and delivered each line while holding the same gun each time as if she was sipping a martini at the same moment. "And now my darlings, prepare to die...." How Tallulah Bankhead was that?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 12311/25/2019

I did too, R123. It's a shame the Carruthers story was so terrible. Watching Carrie read Michelle and Marina to filth for having their noses in their cell phones was delicious fun.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12411/25/2019

R124 Yes, that was funny! I'm just glad that they actually listened to her. Today, the younger characters would simply say, "OK Boomer" and walked away. I became a huge fan of Carrie Nye's after the Susan Piper story. Of course, she had become a cult figure for her appearance in the first "Creepshow" movie, and I next saw her on a "Hart to Hart" episode featuring Marla Adams in the first scene as the victim of a serial killer.

I wish I could have been in NY at the time as she starred as Lorraine Sheldon in a revival of "The Man Who Came to Dinner" (Ann Sheridan in the movie/Jean Smart in the Nathan Lane revival), and later was one of the "Mad Women" with Geraldine Page, Madeline Sherwood and Grayson Hall (briefly) Off Broadway. Apparently, Grayson had to leave after a few previews because of major health issues (she died not long afterwards) and they simply shuffled her lines to the other women. Earlier in 1984, Ms. Sherwood had appeared on "Guiding Light" (her second role) as the madame of the bordello that Roxie worked at up in the Yukon Territory. I believe her character's name was Diamond Lil, named of course after the Mae West play. I had watched Grayson just the previous year play Euphemia Ralston, Delilah's calculating mother, on "One Life to Live", and on the late show caught her in "Night of the Iguana" while also watching "Dark Shadows" re-runs on PBS. I always hoped after Grayson's death that they would re-cast Euphemia with someone like Carrie Nye. Here's a rare photo of "The Mad Woman of Chailot" w/Carrie and Grayson Hall.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 12511/25/2019

Carrie talks about playing Susan Piper:

Although she is enjoying her current role ("The Mad Woman of Chailot)"), she remembers with delight her five-month stint as Susan Piper in the television soap opera 'Guiding Light.' 'I played a murdering, thieving, bad-to- the-bone person,' she recalled. 'I poisoned Maureen O'Sullivan, and that's like killing Bambi's mother. I thought I'd get death threats, but the letters from viewers said they loved me. Well-dressed men would come up to me and say 'Susan, you bad girl.' '

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12611/25/2019

R111, spot on. I came across an old VHS tape from GL 1986; Bernau was back recently and watch it. The writing wasn't there yet...not sure who it was.

But the performances were solid. Alan was livid over Phillip not getting the right care at the hospital after being shot when Beth was kidnapped; he was BLASTING Maureen, accusing the Bauer family of trying to steal his son and for some reason Alan ripped into Claire, recovering from falling off a bridge; I thought this is what a great actor does, keeps their character's integrity and through-line until, hopefully, the writing gets better.

There was a golden magic time at GL circa 1987-88 in terms of the Spauldings. Grant was back. Chris was there. Beverlee....Carl Evans while not the best actor played teen angsty hottie Alan-Michael perfectly. Everyone always talks about the Phillip/Rick friendship, but I enjoyed watching Phillip and Alan-Michael spar; AM said to Phillip, after overhearing Alan say that he (Phillip) was the one that it must suck to be someone's sick obsession. By this time, Daniel Pilon was playing the part, alas, and it didn't have the same impact.

We were lucky these shows were around when they were.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12711/25/2019

Some actors luck out in one role and fail in another. Daniel Pilon was terrific as Max Dubujack on "Ryan's Hope" and Renaldo Marchetta on "Dallas", but he came in at an awkward time for a sudden Alan re-cast. For a bit, he did double duty on both "Y&R" and "RH" (not on contract on either show), but to be there for Roger's return was a case of really bad timing. Later on, after they let Michael Zaslow go, they re-cast Roger with Dennis Parlato who was really good on both "One Life to Live" and "Loving" (having taken over as Clay after they fired Larkin Malloy), but didn't really get to make much impact as Roger. Maybe he would have been a better Alan as Michael Grande and Clay Alden were closer to Alan than to Roger.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12811/25/2019

The thing about Carrie Nye is that sure, she played a delicious villain.

But I mentioned needling the young women about their cell phones and bad manners because it was the rare instance we saw someone really being the opposition at that level - that kind of class/manners clash, which is so easy and generates so much story.

A character like that was needed on almost every show and would have been great on GL....a Phoebe Wallingford, if you will, who would cluck over someone's bad behavior. Kind of what Aunt Liz did for a time at AW.

Once the budgets were cut, those characters went with the budgets, and drained shows of the texture and character that many of them had. The closest I can think to a recent character like that is B&B's Pam, and while she has been taken seriously at some points, she's been a joke at other times.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 12911/25/2019

Beverlee herself wanted the character of Alan back and if he had been on canvas a few years earlier, she may have stayed a bit longer. But she was exhausted after story shifted to her after Alan's departure (and Bernau's death) and did not care for Alex becoming a villain to the extent that she did.

Beverlee suggested Daniel Davis as Alan - discussed here before I am sure. (Davis most famously played Niles on "The Nanny" and was on AW with her, I think.)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13011/25/2019

Daniel Davis played Elliot Carrington on Texas opposite Beverlee. And of course, he went on to be hilarious as Niles on The Nanny.

While Daniel is certainly a good actor, he would have been wrong for Alan. Daniel could play a snob, but not the too the manor born elitist the Alan was.

Likewise, he didn't have that strong a screen presence. He didn't draw your attention merely by being in a scene. Bernau's Alan was so strong, you eye went toward him even when he was in the background of a scene.

My biggest criticism of Daniel Davis is that when Elliot was having a nervous breakdown after being held prisoner in some war torn country and then returning to Texas learn that Dennis was not his biological son and Iris had lied to him for 25 years, I didn't really feel for the character. I should have had great empathy for a character going through this harrowing situation, but I honestly didn't. Now, part of the problem was the writing on Texas was weak in its first year (when this story was playing out), but the bigger point is Davis didn't create a character I cared about, that I sympathized with.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13111/25/2019

R131 Thanks, Aunt Liz. I wasn't sure if Davis had been on AW or Texas.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13211/25/2019

[quote]Beverlee suggested Daniel Davis as Alan - discussed here before I am sure.

Beverlee loved Daniel Davis ... everybody else on the Texas set hated him. I don't think he would have fit in with the generally convivial GL cast.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13311/25/2019

James Douglas as Eliot on AW started having chemistry with Jacquie Courtney's Alice and then poof.....he was off the show and on another P&G soap heavy weight ATWT. What happened there?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13411/25/2019

James Herrera (sp?) could've made an interesting choice if he wasn't on ATWT.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13511/25/2019

James Douglas was the original Elliot Carrington on AW. He actually debuted before Iris did.

Alice had run away to start a new life in New York after Steve Frame betrayed her somehow (probably with Rachel). Alice got a job as live-in nurse to sickly young Dennis Carrington. Elliot, Dennis and Louise Goddard were all introduced at the same time. Iris (who was separated from Elliot) returned to town a few months later, after sparks started flying between Elliot and Alice. Iris was jealous and determined to end this budding romance. Ironically, Iris sought the help of Rachel to keep Alice and Elliot apart.

At some point in there, Alice moved back to Bay City and all the Carringtons followed her from NYC to Bay City.

And yes, James Douglas had nice chemistry with Jacqueline Courtney.

Two years later, Douglas auditioned for the role of Grant Coleman on ATWT and when he got it bolted from AW.

Not sure whether ATWT was paying more than AW or what. Maybe Douglas was unhappy with the AW cast. Or maybe he just didn't like the commute out to Brooklyn each day, especially when ATWT filmed in Midtown.

Harding Lemay talks about this in his book, although he didn't mention Douglas by name. He apparently had great plans for Elliot and abandoned them all rather than recast the character. Apparently he also talked to P&G officials about preventing one P&G show from poaching another P&G show's actors.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13611/25/2019

R128, when you talked about actors that shine in one role , but fail miserably in another, I immediately thought of Susan Batten. Wonderful as Luna in OLTL, horrible as Conner on ATWT.

Loved all the mentions of Grayson Hall. I can still see her gasping out her lines as Julia Hoffman (and Magda the Gypsy!) on Dark Shadows.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13711/25/2019

R128, when you talked about actors that shine in one role , but fail miserably in another, I immediately thought of Susan Batten. Wonderful as Luna in OLTL, horrible as Conner on ATWT.

Loved all the mentions of Grayson Hall. I can still see her gasping out her lines as Julia Hoffman (and Magda the Gypsy!) on Dark Shadows.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13811/25/2019

Susan Batten would have made a good Roxie on GL. But how any living person though she'd be a good replacement for the very patrician Allison Rice is beyond me.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 13911/25/2019

P&G Productions was run by morons and assholes then, r139. They didn't think she'd be a good replacement. P&G wanted us to hate their soaps, so they very methodically went about making us hate their soaps. They were good at it. On AW, they had such excrescences as Lila and Bobby Roberts. He was played by the original "Sam Fowler," to confuse us into hating the show.

I wasn't watching GL any longer, so I don't know exactly how MADD took a shit on it. But that was her directive, to destroy the living fuck out of our Magnificent Midwestern Marvels.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14011/25/2019

R185

I was today's year old when I learned that Anthony Herrera was the father of Transparent's Gabby Hoffman and her mother was Viva.

He had no relationship with his daughter.

Anyone know the details surrounding him having a fractured relationship with his daughter or how he became involved with of all people Viva?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14111/25/2019

I think Daniel Davis must be the gay male Helen Lawson. People love him on stage but hate him backstage, yet he gets hired frequently. I saw him in his notorious stint in "La Cage Aux Folles" and thought he was a shoe-in for a Tony nomination, but the cast hated him, and they fired him because of major conflict with the cast, especially Gary Beach. I saw him later in "The Frogs" where he played George Bernard Shaw (Ironically Peter Bartlett, "Nigel" of "One Life to Live" played Hades and was hysterical: Niles and Nigel together!), in a reading of the Shaw play "The Devil's Disciple", and as the drunken actor Selsdon Mowbray in the last revival of "Noises Off!". I just watched some of his "Texas" episodes and had I only known him from "The Nanny", I would have been laughing at his presence simply out of memory of his reaction to the line "Niles, do we have any old nipples around here?" as C.C. walks in. (Not the exact line I'm sure, but close...)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14211/26/2019

R141 There's been a few articles on Gaby over the years that mention Herrera. For whatever reason they never had a father-daughter bond. The NYT ran a picture of Viva and Gaby as a baby (with half sister Alexandra) watching Herrera and Colleen Zenk in a scene from ATWT.

The best thing to watch is the episode of PBS' Finding Your Roots w/Hoffman, where she finds out more about her father's family.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 14311/26/2019

Remember how "Search for Tomorrow" ended the day after Christmas in 1986? That set though was all decked out for the holiday as Mary Stuart said goodbye to the audience while blinking back tears.

They even knew how to end a show back then as compared to the awful, uninspired final months of ATWT.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14411/26/2019

*sob*

The look on Mary Stuart's face at the very end, when she says "They were wonderful years..." was just heartbreaking.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 14511/26/2019

Not a very good Thanksgiving in Springfield during that particular year.....

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 14611/26/2019

If one of you is a Y&R threadstarter, the latest one, "Dateline Genoa City: Second Chances and Thirsty Theos," just went paywall. Maybe you could start a new one so all might participate? TIA.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14711/26/2019

Off topic, but I love this line.

[quote]Terry had left The Young and the Restless in 1989 for reasons too idiotic to go into

by Lucinda Walsh reply 14811/26/2019

R147 Thank you, darling.

I took care of it.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 14911/27/2019

Ol' Lucy, I knew I could count on you. And it's a GOOD one.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15011/27/2019

Why did Lisa and Lucinda hate each other?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15111/27/2019

Lisa blamed Lucinda for trying to bring about the downfall of her then-husband Whit McColl as Lucinda blamed Whit for the suicide via blackmail of her husband Martin Guest.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15211/27/2019

Getting to spend the holidays with Rachel and the Cory's in their livingroom made my Christmas brighter every year.

I miss them.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15311/27/2019

Katharine Chancellor (Y&R) - Stephanie Forrester (B&B) - Lucinda Walsh (ATWT) - Alexandra Spaulding (GL)

All older, wealthy matriarch women where many of the story-lines revolved around them.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15411/27/2019

Speaking of Rachel, have you guys ever wondered why VW never got the grande dame treatment that other soap grand dames got. For the last 10 years of the show, she was just "there". Yeah, they put her with Carl (which was an odd choice given their history) and the Justine thing which turned into something that it wasn't supposed to be. Why was that character so hard for the writers to embrace?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15511/27/2019

R155 they did write Rachel as a "grande dame" in the late 80s (when Douglas Watson died) but Wyndham said that wasn't any type of story where plot-lines revolve around her, and all she is doing is pushing the story, moving it along.

She calls that only having "scenes" and no type of story at all. So they decided to go back and make her the romantic heroine (hence a match-up with Carl)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15611/27/2019

I don't think they did Rachel justice, but she at least got more airtime than most of the other P&G leading ladies "of a certain age."

Ironically, youth-obsessed ABC did better than P&G in keeping Susan Lucci and Erika Slezak (mostly) front and center until the end.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15711/27/2019

I missed out on their darker history days...I only knew Carl as the Shakespeare-spouting lover with a dark edge. Thank God they paired her up with him because they were such a terrific couple. You could see how much they liked working together. Charles Keating seemed like a sweet guy.

The darkest days for Rachel came after he was fired from the show. Rachel was just kind of....there...in scenes every once in a while. You'd see her holding papers or answering the phone while Cass/Lila/Matt had their triangle and David/Amanda/Cameron had their triangle. She was almost a background player in whatever plots were happening in the foreground.

When Carl returned for the last two weeks of the show it was like she suddenly had a story again.

It's sad but true that on soaps if you don't have a romantic plot you're probably going to vanish either instantly or gradually.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15811/27/2019

I wish that VW would write a book. I really want to know what she thought about Jensen's helicopter, the show's glory days, Reinholt and Courtney. I also like to know what she hated Michael Malone.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 15911/27/2019

VW was one who always said if they were to keep trying to bring Alice back it should be Courtney.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16011/27/2019

For the record Jensen disputes the helicopter story saying it is an urban legend

"Somebody asked me on Twitter if it was true that I helicoptered in to Another World. That's an urban legend. Would have been nice, but not true! It made me laugh when I thought about my five-hour drive down from Vermont into the city. There was no helicopter involved! "

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16111/27/2019

Was Jensen drunk when she wrote that R161? It was reported in the magazines and too ridiculous for someone to just pull out of their ass. Maybe it's not true but I can't imagine someone driving 5 hours to work every day.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16211/27/2019

[quote] Maybe it's not true but I can't imagine someone driving 5 hours to work every day.

Erin Torpey commuted from Philadelphia to NYC for her entire run on OLTL, mostly with her mother driving the car

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16311/27/2019

I think a 2 hour commute is way easier than a 5 hour commute

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16411/27/2019

[quote] Maybe it's not true but I can't imagine someone driving 5 hours to work every day.

Should also be noted that many, many actors commuted from LA to NYC on a weekly basis to do NY based soaps. A few names are Marie Wilson (ATWT), Alice Barrett-Mitchell (AW), Brittany Snow (GL) and Wortham Krimmer (OLTL) - Krimmer did it for eight years.

Both Kimberlin Brown and Hunter Tylo commuted from Las Vegas to LA to to B&B on a daily basis.

And they ALL paid out of their own pocket for the travel, the show did not cough up a single dime. Because it was the actors who chose to commute, not the show.,

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16511/27/2019

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see it as different. A 5 hour plane ride from NYC to LA and then you stay out there and 2 hour commute from Philly every day is not the same thing as driving, in a car, 5 hours. Unless Jensen had an apartment or got a room to stay in NYC during the week. It was always implied that the helicopter picked her up and took her home everyday.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16611/27/2019

Victoria Wyndham has said in interviews that she was pushed aside because both NBC and P&G didn't want her to have power at the show. They certainly used many of her story ideas without credit, though.

This interview was done in 2007 and appears to be the last time Wyndham has spoken to the press about AW.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 16711/27/2019

Greyson Hall was such a delicious ham

by Lucinda Walsh reply 16811/27/2019

I was tastier. I even got a reference in "Airplane" that made the Dobsons laugh and got me a month long gig on "Santa Barbara".

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 16911/27/2019

I don't get why AW would use Vicky Wyndham's storyline ideas and if they did I don't see what was so great about any of them. They had a team of writers didn't they ?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17011/27/2019

Soaps buy stories all the time, you just don't hear about it or know that they've been bought. If you look at the WGA contract you can see how much they pay for stories. They will get a freelancer to write a long story and then give it to their writing team to develop. Soap will also hire other writers to watch their show for a number of weeks and give notes.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17111/27/2019

A lot of actors have suggested story or helped with story, but few were ever compensated as writers. Don Hastings and Marie Masters at ATWT were on a short list of actors who were actually paid. Pam Long at Texas was a famous case where, in the last months of the show, they gave her the HW position.

But as VW mentions, one of the issues with that is that you then have your fellow actors lobbying you for story and/or being angry with you.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17211/27/2019

(R121)...but anyone and everyone can think of stories...that's the easy part...what is hard is telling those stories in a new and different way.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17311/27/2019

I don't get why the head writer would want to use someone else's ideas...

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17411/27/2019

[quote] I don't get why the head writer would want to use someone else's ideas...

Soap writers crank out an insane amount of content. They will gladly take ideas from other sources if they can. One person living and breathing every thought for 20-30 characters all the time is rare.....Lemay did it, but others had help.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17511/27/2019

As a writer myself, I would never use another writer's or an actor's ideas. I know what I'm doing and where I'm going with my story lines.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17611/27/2019

I can understand a HW using other writers to crank out dialogues based on HIS ideas...I still don't get a HW lacking enough imagination to have his own ideas. Dialogues are one thing, ideas quite another

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17711/27/2019

(R177) Probably why soaps today are in such a bad state. They are written by committee.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17811/27/2019

[quote]I still don't get a HW lacking enough imagination to have his own ideas.

I don't see it as any different than adapting a book or play or some other original source material to a movie or a series. It happens all the time in prime time, streaming and movies. Basically it is... here is a story adapt it to fit into our show. And in a way, EP, Production Company, and Network notes are forms of reworking story to add in other's ideas.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 17911/27/2019

You think Lemay never borrowed?

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 18011/27/2019

When Tony Geary & Genie Francis returned to GH Geary sold them the story. He had it all plotted out & IMO it was a brilliant story.

I'm talking about the story of Luke, Laura, Lucky living in the Canadian Rockies with new identities & running the Triple L diner. Their return was must see TV.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18111/27/2019

Hated it R181.

The show shortly bombed and Gloria Monty was fired

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18211/27/2019

(R180) I think Lemay was inspired by...

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18311/27/2019

Gloria Monty wasn’t producing GH when Luke and Laura returned; that was Wendy Richie. Monty was fried after the Eckert family ate the show and sent the ratings tumbling-which caused ATWT to jump to 2nd from 5th place .

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18411/27/2019

At the risk of reigniting this segment of the thread, which was, shall we say, well worn, I will say this: of course head writers will look to other sources for inspiration.

A lot of the great stories that Doug Marland did at ATWT came from his conversations with the actors that had been there for a long time. The Sabrina story was a specific response to how the network put the kibosh on the original story (Irna Phillips' last story). Scott Eldridge came from a conversation with Eileen where he learned there was a gap in that time where a baby would have explained the gap. After talking to Colleen Zenk, he made shifts in Barbara's story as well. Those are just some examples.

Some writers don't want to interact with actors, but might look to the news for ideas.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18511/27/2019

For r183, "The Necklace," by Guy de Maupassant:

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 18611/27/2019

r185

How did the Sabrina story come about? What did they object to in the original story?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18711/27/2019

Maybe Victoria Wyndham didn't get as much respect as the other matriarchs because she was an awful actress. Robin Strasser MADE the Rachel/Steve/Alice triangle must-see TV. And don't get me started on VW's horrible Justine act.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18811/27/2019

Victoria Wyndham wasn’t a bad actress. She literally carried AW with Doug Watson in the early 80s. She was saddled with horrible storylines for the most part after Lemay left, with the possible exception of her work immediately after Mac’s death.

Rachel was ruined when they decided to put her with Carl. It didn’t make sense. He had tried to kill Mac, Nancy, Sandy and Blaine, among others. He was Bay City’s James Stenbeck and it didn’t make sense for the two of them to become involved. Keating should have been brought on as Carl’s brother or something, that would have made more sense.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 18911/27/2019

[quote]Maybe Victoria Wyndham didn't get as much respect as the other matriarchs because she was an awful actress

"Where is the son you've ever given him?"

"We had a kind of love you'll never know."

r188 Go to 22:00 on the video below and then tell me that Victoria Wyndham is an awful actress.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 19011/27/2019

How was GL able to hang on to not only decent but very good ratings during the GH phenom? GL not only held its own but it eventually toppled GH for a brief bit.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19111/27/2019

[quote] How did the Sabrina story come about? What did they object to in the original story?

The academic soap folks know the details better, but at that time in story, Bob Hughes was married to Jennifer but had an affair with her sister Kim. Both sisters became pregnant. Irna Phillips wanted Kim to be able to raise her child and be a modern woman on her own but either CBS or P&G or both objected, and the end result was that Irna Phillips quit over it. (I think Irna was kinda basing Kim on her own story.)

So Doug allowing Kim to have that child after all was kind of a full circle thing.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19211/27/2019

[quote]How was GL able to hang on to not only decent but very good ratings during the GH phenom? GL not only held its own but it eventually toppled GH for a brief bit.

I think GL picked up AW viewers who had become disenchanted with the show. AW did the 90 minute thing and introduced a bunch of new characters, then started working in the Texas spin-off and I just think they left and went to GL. Another World then moved to 2 eastern and no one was sampling Texas, so GL benefited.

What NBC should have done was sandwich Texas between Days and AW and left AW at the 3 Eastern Slot. But by then I think the damage was done.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19311/27/2019

[quote] She was saddled with horrible storylines for the most part after Lemay left, with the possible exception of her work immediately after Mac’s death.

I think she had some really interesting story at that time. She saw a lot of herself when Vicky was fighting Jamie for custody of Steven. She was great as a foil for Felicia during her alcoholism struggles.

She wasn't served as well as she had been before, because she was older and the show/network pushed her to back burner. And I think her pairing with Mac was so iconic that it was nearly impossible to pair her with anyone else. But she was a very, very good actress.

Her stories in the last few years were indeed a mess, and I think Justine was such a mess that she just decided to have fun with it. As much as I like Keating, I tend to agree that a Carl/Rachel pairing just didn't sit well with many of us.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19411/27/2019

GL's 1984 time at #1 was because the show was on fire. The Four Musketeers, Reva, Alexandra, etc. all were happening at the same time.

Stupidly, Pam Long was fired not too long after the show hit #1 and it never regained that momentum, though it did stabilize after she returned in 1987.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19511/27/2019

[quote]Stupidly, Pam Long was fired not too long after the show hit #1 and it never regained that momentum, though it did stabilize after she returned in 1987.

Was she fired? Really?

I thought P&G moved Pam over to Search for Tomorrow in 1986 for its final year to see if she could work her magic over there.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19611/27/2019

PG really ran their studio like the old Hollywood studio system. Actors and writers and EPs were always moving from PG show to PG show.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19711/27/2019

Yes, Pam's Wikipedia page indicates she was HW of GL until Feb 1986 and then started as the Search HW in May 1986. Scroll to the very end for the list of her positions.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 19811/27/2019

R196 R198 I think it must have been CBS, then, that pushed the change.

I know the period between her first and second stints was pretty dreadful, including but not limited to: the Sampson Girl contest, the infamous "Infinity" story, and bringing the walking bag of boredom Maeve Stoddard on.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 19911/27/2019

According to Pam's Wikipedia page, she competed in Miss America for Alabama the same year that Delta Burke competed (!)

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20011/27/2019

I heard GL was great in 1983-85 so that must have been part of the reason its ratings stayed not only competitive with GH's hot streak but even beat it on occasion.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20111/27/2019

This Thread is so interesting. It's amazing to me that during what so many of you describe as the bad years for Rachel in the 90s, I not only loved her with Carl but completely bought into the stories being told. I guess ignorance IS bliss because like I said I did not know any of the previous history with him being a felon. And I completely loved the Justine storyline for the first few months, until she became a nun with a hook hand. It was such great dark gothic material, even if it was off brand for Another World.

Now, when you watch a show like Days, it's not as if the bad storylines are elevated by seller acting or chemistry. Another World at its worst it's pretty much equal to Days on one of its better days...you know what I mean?

For example, Days is trying desperately to redeem this is serial killer character named Ben Weston, but he's played by total dud of an actor who happens to have abs. It's not working at all. Charles Keating? He didn't need abs to sell me on the sincerity of his love for Rachel and his desire to be a good person after years of criminal activity. The man could read the phone book and leave me spellbound. What a talent.

Also, I had no idea that ABM/Frankie lived in LA and flew to New York for tapings. That sounds crazy!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20211/27/2019

[quote]I know the period between her first and second stints was pretty dreadful, including but not limited to: the Sampson Girl contest, the infamous "Infinity" story, and bringing the walking bag of boredom Maeve Stoddard on.

The Sampson Girl contest and the Infinity story both took place in summer 1985. Likewise, Maeve Stoddard debuted in August 1985.

Yes, I agree, all of those were less than stellar storylines. The Infinity story was especially bad. Pam was still the GL HW in 1985. However, starting in late 1984, she had a co-HW named Jeff Ryder, a former NBC daytime exec.

Ryder's IMDB page doesn't show a lot of writing credits. It says after leaving GL in 1986, he moved over to be be a writer/story consultant on Dynasty for the 1987-88 season. It says he also was a script writer for Loving in 1992. In other words, he wasn't exactly someone who set the soap world on fire with his stories.

So likely those lackluster storylines, those storylines like Infinity that didn't feel like Pam, were Ryder's doing. And likely there was also a lot of network interference.

Linked below is a April 1986 SOD interview with Ryder. It was also reported in that same issue of SOD that Ryder had been fired as GL HW.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 20311/28/2019

The whole thread R203 posted is very informative.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20411/28/2019

I think that after Mac's death, Rachel should not have been put in charge of Cory Publishing. The scenes with her, Iris and Amanda running the show were mostly boring and out of character. Amanda was how old at the time 20 ? 22 ? And what the fuck was Iris doing in the business world ? The only part I liked was the introduction of Janice's son Evans but that too went nowhere fast. I would have taken Rachel back to her interest in her career as a sculptor NOT as the matriarch of the family. Reintroduce a character like Pat Randolph or even Sandy Cory to run Cory if need be. And I would certainly not have put her in a romantic pairing with the man who tried to destroy her family. Rachel reciting poems, reading Shakespeare and playing the Grande Dame of the Manor ? BORING ! Rachel needed a full break from the past.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20511/28/2019

I enjoyed Carl and Rachel, but it made no sense. Rachel in dialogue tried to justify it as she was paying it forward. Mac saved her, so she was saving Carl. The difference is Rachel was a spoiled vixen who wanted money and love. Carl was a supervillain and terrorist. How could she lie next to that man and close her eyes after all that he had done. The difference between Ben Weston and Carl is that Ben Weston on Days was mentally ill. Carl knew exactly what he was doing.

Personally, I think the Justine storyline should have been Rachel versus her half sister Pamela. Pamela could have been the great love of Carl's life and Spencer Harrison's wife. Could you imagine them casting someone like Robin Strasser to play Pammy. That would have been a hoot and a half.

Another story for Rachel could have been someone from Sven Petersen's family coming to town to get revenge. The guy could have been a promising young sculptor or something. Another story could have been Ted Clark (with the right recast a Donnelly Rhodes type) re-entering Rachel's life and starting a romance.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20611/28/2019

Hold the phone!! Rachel had a half-sister named Pamela????? How am I just hearing about this? Ada obviously wasn't the mom.

Tell me more please!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20711/28/2019

-0.0/10.00

FAIL

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20811/28/2019

[quote] Rachel had a half-sister named Pamela????? How am I just hearing about this? Ada obviously wasn't the mom.

Pam and Rachel shared a father, Gerald Davis. Pam was around in AW's very early years, I think - I don't remember ever seeing her on screen.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 20911/28/2019

I believe Pam Davis was on Somerset, along with Ada’s brother Sam

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21011/28/2019

My internet searches this morning took me to the "Concluding Chapter of Joan Crawford" website.

In March 1969, Joan and Christina were guests on the Virginia Graham talk show, along with a certain dishtowel carrying resident of Bay City.....

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 21111/28/2019

Another Crawford connection - she appears in this Route 66 episode with a certain young ingenue from AW.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 21211/28/2019

Yes, Pammy Davis was on Somerset.

One of the most absurd aspects of Iris's return in 1988 was that she was now a business woman. IRIS?!?! A business woman?!?!

Iris was an elitist snob. She didn't work. She was a lady who lunched. She lounged at the pool. She went to charity functions. Sometimes she helped organize charity functions. She gossiped. She schemed. She manipulated.

But she didn't work a traditional 9 to 5 job. And she certainly was experienced enough to be in the executive suite, much less running the entire company.

I realize the show was just going with the times since more women were in the workplace in 1988 when Iris returned that in 1972 when Iris debuted. But still, the idea of the idle, upper crust social elite was very much part of who Iris was.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21311/28/2019

I love you R213. Remember all of those New York friends who would come visit Iris at her mansion and just lounge around her above ground pool. All they did was lounge and gossip and talk about Mac and his other side of the tracks wife. and enable Iris. I think I remember a scene where Iris got pissed off at them and threw them all out.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21411/28/2019

Iris had maids and friends who sang "Bye Bye Blackbird" on the lanai.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21511/28/2019

Pamela Toll had been very popular on The Doctors, she left to do Disney films in Hollywood and then ended up on Somerset as Pammy. I don't think Rachel and Pammy ever met.....correct me if I'm wrong? Talk about a character who could have set up tent on AW. So much better than giving dykey Ada a late in life baby.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21611/29/2019

If they met, it was brief.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 21711/29/2019

There's an interesting thread going on about Elisabeth Ashley.

Any scoop about her time on AW. That's all I know about her. Did she clash with anyone because according to her thread she was a real firebrand.shit stirrer.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21811/29/2019

In the early days of Somerset, there were always crossovers between the shows. Somerset was like 50 miles from Bay City, so characters were always going back and forth. Ada found out that Gerald was living in Somerset and went to confront him or something. Rachel found out and then she too went to Somerset. While I cannot verify, I would find it hard to believe that there wasn't a scene between the two characters. In the Somerset bible, Pammy was described as the "Rachel" of the show. Slesar came on and pretty much severed all the ties to the mothership and got rid of the entire Davis family and remade the show into an Edge of Night clone.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 21911/29/2019

Sometime in the late 1980s there was a plan to bring Rachel's half-sister Pamela to Bay City. I actually thought it would have been fun if John Black/Steve Frame's dead wife Pamela turned out to be alive and was Rachels' half-sister.

As I've written on previous threads I HATED Rachel and Carl. The only way putting them together would have worked was for Carl to suffer a major accident and have the part of his brain containing memory removed, therefore creating a blank slate. ATWT did the same thing to Holden but he recovered his memories even though it was medically impossible.

IMO Marj Dusay and Marla Adams have always been relentless mediocrities. Dusay as Alexandra was very lazy casting.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22011/29/2019

R220, Hubbard said this in a SoapHub interview in 2016 when they had the Atwt and GL reunions on The Talk.

Hubbard: So many memories come back oddly to one’s mind. I remember going into the producer [back in the ’90s] and saying, “I’m about to do a scene where a doctor tells me they’ve taken half of Holden’s brain out.” Are you sure that you want to do this? I can say something else. Once it’s out as a fact, it’s out there. From then on, Holden only had half a brain.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22111/29/2019

Somerset & Another World were taped in the same studio in Brooklyn.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22211/29/2019

R220, you're entitled to your opinion and I can't say I disagree with you. I think it's best when actress has a role unto herself. I enjoyed Marj mostly as Vanessa on AMC because I had no visual of anyone else playing the part. I know fans of the Secret Storm (I think that was the show) and Marla as Belle is revered.

My tops are Hubbard and McKinsey. I'll spend my youtube hours watching them.

If it means anything, and I'm not saying you're not saying this, but Dusay and Adams are two of the nicest broads I've ever met and I've worked in soaps for a while.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22311/29/2019

R220, Holden always had half a brain.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22411/29/2019

I'll always prefer McKinsey, but I love Marj too.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22511/29/2019

Every so often I will watch Alexandra's take downs of Roger and Mindy at the Country Club. It is perhaps some of the most compelling TV ever written. The idea that she doesn't have an Emmy makes the entire award a sham. I would put those scenes up against any premium cable or streaming writing and acting. It was just that good.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22611/29/2019

R226 Agreed. It was flawless. One of the best scenes ever on any soap.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22711/29/2019

R226, R227, ditto.

Call me crazy, but I just canceled Hulu and Netflix, too much money.

I can watch Alex take down Roger at the club and Alex FRY Mindy at the Blue Moon over and over.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 22811/29/2019

the families on the Bell soaps -- the Abbotts, Newmans, and Forresters -- all seemed larger than life, like royalty...but the Bauers, Hughes, Snyders, Stewarts, even the Spauldings and Lewises with all their money seemed more -- approachable.

Imagine living in a town with family and friends where people cared about one another like we saw on those shows.

Even Alan and Alex who were always plotting against each other loved one another.

got to 47:21 to see Bernau's and McKinsey's last scene together; they recap their relationship and Alan -- who has nothing manages to keep his dignity and strength. Alex hasn't seen the last of Alan and she knows it. Such a sad story, he died so young in real life. She did, too, relatively.

It's great that we had the show at all and great that we have these shows on youtube.

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 22911/29/2019

Sometimes it hurts to watch GL. It was my life raft for quite a few stretches of time.

I'm not a person who generally lives in the past, but when I see a clip it takes me back to being in my parents' house, in the gameroom. I can remember the remote, the TV, the carpeting. I wish I could just transport myself there for a few hours, sometimes.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23011/29/2019

R226 R227 R228

I'd also add in the fight scenes in the bedroom between Alex & Roger. I can never watch them enough.

Beverlee was almost feral in her fury.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23111/29/2019

r229 Thanks for posting that video. McKinsey and Bernau had wonderful chemistry. That was such a great scene. They captured the stiff upper lip, to the manor born aspects of the sibling rivalry so well in their performances.

While Marj and Ron also had chemistry, it was a very different kind of chemistry. Theirs felt more like a middle-class sibling rivalry where they weren't so afraid to show their feelings. It worked, but it just ran different to what had been established under Bev and Chris.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23211/29/2019

Someone on the Y&R thread reported that this thread had been Murieled.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23311/29/2019

So, am I understanding this right? Pam Long went on maternity leave in late 1985. At the time they were unsure if she'd return to GL. But when she was ready to come back, P&G got her to go over to Search for Tomorrow to try and save it, to no avail. Then after Search was canceled at the end of 1986, P&G brought her back to GL in spring 1987.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23411/30/2019

Fall 1987, R234.

I think you may be otherwise right, though I had no idea she'd gone on maternity leave until it was mentioned upthread. Sounds like P&G moved Jeff Ryder into HW when she left.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23511/30/2019

A number of the regulars left during Kobe/Long and only returned when they were gone. Simon, Aleksander, Newman and Bernau were the most prominent. Ver Dorn and Kinkead stuck it out, but they were horribly marginalized.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23611/30/2019

I always thought they should have brought Don Hughes back in the late 90s as a love interest for Lucinda, along with the daughter he had with Mary, Christina.

It would be fun to watch Lucinda trying to make Christmas dinner with Nancy and Kim while Lisa and Barbara made snide comments. And Christina could have come back as a spoiled brat-the Hughes family needed someone who wasn’t a goody two shoes at the time.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23711/30/2019

I still wish they would have brought back Peter Reardon. He was connected to so many characters and was just the right age for GL to have brought him back in the 00's.

The Marler kids could have been aged, too.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23811/30/2019

Do we need a new thread? Happy to start one

blink once for yes or twice for no

by Lucinda Walsh reply 23911/30/2019

Someone said this one is paywalled so yes, please.

Include a link.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24011/30/2019

Helen Wagner disliked a .lot of people at ATWT and hamfisted Hubbard would be at the top of the list. She would mistake Ellen Dolan for Rita McLaughlin and ask why they didn't call her 'Carol' any longer.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24111/30/2019

I will think of some hopefully nondescript thread titles and shall commence with a new thread tomorrow.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24211/30/2019

How about "Bye Bye Blackbird and other notable songs of the Midwest"

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24311/30/2019

Or Emma's Cheese Buns Beat Aunt Ada's Sweet Rolls?

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24412/01/2019

'Helen Wagner... would mistake Ellen Dolan for Rita McLaughlin and ask why they didn't call her 'Carol' any longer."

Oh, come on...

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24512/01/2019

How about...

"What is the most interesting gossip you ever heard while standing on a porch in the Midwest?"

by Lucinda Walsh reply 24612/01/2019

New threads, darlings!

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 24712/01/2019

Guiding Light alum Rachel Miner (ex-Michelle) is battling multiple sclerosis, and now must use a wheelchair

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 24812/05/2019

does anyone know what soap this is from and who these two characters are? It is a CBS soap (hence the logo at the bottom)

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by Lucinda Walsh reply 24912/18/2019

r249

it is Y&R

the girl is Colleen Carlton and the guy is the art professor but forget his name

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25012/18/2019

R250 thanks much appreciated

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25112/19/2019

Every day should be like Christmas!

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25202/23/2021

The actor in r249's name is Eyal Podell. The character's name was Adrian Korbell. We called him Professor Cowbell. That was a really good period on Y&R.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25302/23/2021

r253

Brad chasing Nazis was a good period??

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25402/23/2021

R254 It was the best period of Y&R ever. People actually talked like human beings instead of using that horrid Bell soapspeak. I hated Y&R prior to LML. Thought it was the worst program on television, any daypart.

by Lucinda Walsh reply 25502/23/2021
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