** OFFICIAL VIEWING THREAD PART 2 ** Robert Mueller Testifies in Front of House Judiciary & House Intelligence 7/24/2019

Link to Part One here:

[quote] 'Disoriented' Mueller's stumbling responses to questions during blockbuster hearing leave social media concerned the special counsel seems a 'confused old man' but some think it is all a strategy to frustrate the committee members

Let the games begin!

Giant douche nozzle Devin Nunes is on this committee.

I hope Schiff handles this better than Nadler. He should make sure when repubs interrupt Mueller that he is allowed to continue speaking. Nadler failed to do that

Hilarious watching Mueller's media sycophants finally pull their tongue out of his asshole after almost 3 years and reach for the Kleenex because this was such a fucking disaster.

unfortunately too many people focus on style over substance.

Mueller has horrible style. He is not passionate or dramatic like Comey. Mueller is doing his best to be apolitcal yet repubs still characterize him as such.

This is going to be tougher for him to obfuscate.

Schiff is off to a good start.

so another negative thing accomplished in the Trump era: the tarnishing of Mueller's reputation.

haha yes call them acolytes

I love Schiff

Funny watching R6 still troll.

[quote]'Disoriented' Mueller's stumbling responses to questions during blockbuster hearing leave social media concerned the special counsel seems a 'confused old man'

He seems like he needs a hearing aid, maybe. Other than that, he's fine—he's not dramatic and dynamic, and unfortunately, he's not willing to endorse indictment or impeachment, but he doesn't come across as being confused about what he's being asked.

I like how Schiff is framing this as an issue of disloyalty to country -- that's actually something that might resonate with independents and reluctant Trump voters.

here we go with Nunes bullshit opener

this is how evil Nunes is. He's calling the truth "conspiracies" and attacking the FBI via the Steele dossier

Nunes is such a piece of shit, and I always laugh at his hair.

It’s possible he does have hearing aids, but they’re not effective in this setting.

Nunes using his time to audition for the role of Trump's new director of national intelligence.

so interesting the "party of law" is attacking the FBI

That same young guy is still sitting behind Mueller. Doesn’t he have to pee?

So....Is this bullshit by Nunes the REAL reason Nunes went to the White House a few days ago ?

Schiff's opening was exceptionally well-crafted.

Nunes is an idiot and a vile, despicable criminal who belongs in prison himself.

[quote]Nunes is such a piece of shit, and I always laugh at his hair.

And the rest?

can't Pelosi have the House investigate Nunes?

Nunes saying Democrats are the ones who colluded with Russia

omfg I despise him. He should be in jail

Nunes has to be a Russian.

Nunes needs to say "Veselnitskaya" ten times fast.

It’s no wonder Repugs have to pay women to fuck them.

Indulging political fantasies and wasting time?

HAHAHAHA.

Sure. Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton's Administration.

They always talk about her like she was actually President. Talk about delusion.

Nunes, like Gaetz, has a very punchable face. I hope they both burn in hell.

but see the Nunes theater works on Fox and with repub base. There are going to be idiots who believe him. I bet Nunes will be whoring himself all over Fox tonight

They have to pretend she's relevant and in office to keep their acolytes scared of her.

Nunes not even paying lip service to Mueller's findings that Russia interfered with our election and that it intends to do so again in 2020. It's all about sanctifying Trump, not protecting the country.

good news so far is most tweets I'm seeing hate Nunes

The only thing surprising about Nunes saying the Democrats were the ones who really colluded is that it's an old talking point. I didn't think the trolls and Fox were still bringing it up at this late date. It didn't stick in 2017 and it's not going to stick now, probably.

Poor. Mr. Zebley must be heartbroken.

I love the way Schiff just sort of cunted Nunes about who is allowed to testify.

LOL, Schiff refers to Nunes as "an angry man down the street."

R529, pretty sure you are the troll.

yeah Schiff is good at smacking Nunes around and deservedly so

[quote] Schiff refers to Nunes as "an angry man down the street.

No, he meant tRump. The Twittler was on a tear about Zebly this morning, claiming -- of course -- that he is biased.

I just don't understand how our country has come to having one party completely lying and misleading about everything

we're no longer just dealing with political differences. We're arguing about what is real. That is scary because at least 40% of the country believes what is real is fake and what is fake is real

ugh Mueller correcting himself regarding what he said to Lieu and the OLC policy

Yep, Mueller backpedaled on why they didn't indict.

R42 you're only pretty sure. I'm absolutely sure about you. Your history says it all.

Try harder though.

What did Mueller say in his correction. I missed it.

[quote]Mueller correcting himself regarding what he said to Lieu and the OLC policy

As predicted on thread 1.

yes Schiff bringing up Trump and Flynn trying to make money from Turkey and Russia!

yes Schiff confirming all the liars on Trump's team

finally Schiff refuting the witch hunt and hoax claims

Did Mueller grab a cup of coffee before this?

He finally seems more alert.

Mueller: "It is not a witch hunt."

90% of the country doesn’t give two shits about any of this.

Schiff is starting out very strong. Much better than Nadler

let's see how Mueller tangles with Nunes lol

Mueller seems to have a much better grasp of Volume 1 matters.

Why can't anyone say that the American people paid millions and millions of dollars for him to do a job and we demand a real answer? Is that too hard? If not make him admit he FAILED and wasted all of our money. This merry-go-round is so tired.

Nunes upper lip is now officially gone.

The lower one can't be far behind.

Nunes looks like he'd throw a baby in front of a wild animal to give himself a 10 second head start.

our NATO allies compromised? huh? Nunes stfu

R60 because his investigation didn't cost tax payers anything.

Nunes pulling a Trump and questioning the integrity of NATO.

“What we are trying to figure out here, Mr. Mueller, is if our NATO allies or Boris Johnson had been compromised.”

Thankfully, nobody is asking Shakespeare monologue level questions in this hearing.

Nunes' questioning is all about giving Sean Hannity footage for tonight's show.

love Himes

[quote]History is still waiting for the hero who will stand up to tyranny.

No such hero, but a look at the People of Puerto Rico, who are about to succeed in making their corrupt governor resign, wouldn’t hurt

R61 How did it cost nothing? Who paid these people for their time? Genuinely asking.

Adam Schiff drove a lot of good points home.

Again, what did Mueller say early on when he clarified his statements about choosing not to indict?

And if he won't give a solid answer, then he should be forced to say he failed. Public perception is more important at this point than what it may or may not say in his report.

Damn. I am so over Swalwell, but please someone set me up with Congressman Himes. He is a pretty thing is he not?

R70 you realize how much money the US got from Paul Manafort, right? It was also brought up at the start of the previous testimony.

Mueller is so damn difficult. It's really frustrating

[quote]Again, what did Mueller say early on when he clarified his statements about choosing not to indict?

Reuters: Former U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller said on Wednesday he wanted to correct an exchange with Democratic lawmaker Ted Lieu in which he agreed with Lieu's description of the decision not to indict Trump, saying: "We did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime."

eew Ratcliffe is back

R70...Ok so didn't we have to pay to get that $ from Paul Manafort? This money isn't growing on trees and it isn't being donated. Either way, that money could have been used for BETTER things. So you're statement is ignorant at best. But ya, who cares, right? Let this man just sit up there and play dumb. I think we know who you secretly side with.

Mueller seems more forthcoming this time.

Ratcliffe returns to the Lieu exchange to do further cleanup.

“What I want to clarify is that we did not make a determination with regard to culpability,” Mueller replies.

[quote]Again, what did Mueller say early on when he clarified his statements about choosing not to indict?

He said Congressman Leu declared he chose not to charge the president because of the OLC opinion stating that a sitting president can’t be indicted but he wanted to clarify that he (Muller) and his team did not look to find any culpability at all specifically because of those OLC opinions.

Talk about ignorant and stupid, R72.

so Ratcliffe is "concerned" about Russians giving Steele "false info" about Trump but not about all the Russian contacts Trump campaign had...

I'd love to see some demonstrator throw shit on Nunes. Excrement. Throw it right in his face. I don't care if it's dog shit or chicken shit or human excrement. Just call him a traitor and tell him to "Eat this!" But this is real life, not a movie, and it seems like none of these fuckers ever get any blow back from their words or their behavior. I hate that Oh. And Mueller "correcting the record" about what he meant in his testimony with Leiu, is a distinction without a difference. But of course the media will highlight it and analyze it to death. They always focus on the wrong thing.

That was obviously meant for R79's ignorant and stupid statement about costs.

Ratcliffe looks like his secret is he's an alcoholic living on credit card debt.

Mueller' prosecutions brought in much more money than the special counel's office cost. So, no, in the end it was more than just an equal wash. We made money from this.

R88 don't bother. R79 is obviously too stupid to understand that.

omg Mueller is so annoying "I can't accept that"

Maggie Haberman:

The Trump campaign has blasted out an email falsely claiming that Mueller “confirmed” there was “no collusion, no obstruction, totally unprecedented treatment.”

What r70 is saying, Mueller can sit up there and not give a solid answer because he used money from Manafort. Since it didn't technically cost us money, he owes us nothing? That makes me a troll? Mueller is a useless republican (well, those 2 words go hand in hand). He has crafted a way to keep his hands clean. But morally, you believe he has no obligation to stand up to the pieces of shit in his party...because the $ used was from another criminal in his party? And once again, that makes me a troll? That's the best you can do for someone who questions your idiocy?

here we go with the repubs trying to assert Barr's authority over the whole matter and not Congress

Anything good happen yet? This looks so boring. I need a cup of coffee just glancing at it.

Do shut up r92.

The only discernible point to your posts seems to be the one on the top of your head.

[quote]But morally, you believe he has no obligation to stand up to the pieces of shit in his party...because the $ used was from another criminal in his party? And once again, that makes me a troll? That's the best you can do for someone who questions your idiocy?

No the idiocy is that you made that conclusion and are trying to use that as your argument. Nobody said that re: what Mueller is obligated to do. But keep trying.

R94: Boring, Annoying, Frustrating and Useless. We got all we can out of Mueller.

Uh... hasn't Drumpf tweeted over and over that he's been Exonerated

SCHIFF: Trump and his campaign welcomed & encouraged Russian interference?

MUELLER: Yes.

SCHIFF: And then Trump and his campaign lied about it to cover it up?

MUELLER: Yes.

[quote]Why can't anyone say that the American people paid millions and millions of dollars for him to do a job and we demand a real answer?

As explained, we didn't lose money on the investigation, it paid for itself and then some.

There isn't any way to force him to answer if he doesn't want to, or if he believes the answer is relevant to currently open investigations.

All your other gibberish about money from criminals is irrelevant.

^But there's no conspiracy!

Trump can rape and murder a person in Times Square and nothing would happen to him. He is Teflon Trump and it makes me fucking sick. The entire republican party is a disgraceful, hateful group that should all go straight to hell.

The Schiff-Mueller exchange was fantastic, and I'm sure Chuck "Mysteriously Orange Lips" Todd will say it was a failure within the hour.

Tom Nichols:

Schiff’s five minutes and Mueller’s answers would have been enough for Republicans to impeach and convict any other president before sundown today.

Fuck chuck todd and his toddler haircut. Schiff is awesome!!

"not that it's not true, but I can't agree with that" Mistake ever to put Mueller in front of cameras again. Dem staffers should have figured it out that Mueller wasn't able and wasn't willing to say anything useful. And not saying anything new, or not saying anything already known in a useful way, will be perceived as a "win" for Trump.

R89 you are one angry woman. Therapy may help.

I'm not trying. So what if we made "some" money? This whole thing is costing us A LOT more in other ways. Our fucking democracy is on edge. But ya, we made a few million from Manafort! Woo hoo! We sure got the last laugh.

They aren't going to trick him. He sat down there with an agenda. He knows what he is doing. And back to my original point, it'd be more effective if they questioned his job as a whole. Then they can imply he is hiding something. They can imply all the obvious. Trying to catch him never works with these people. They don't care. No one really seems to understand the psychology of deplorables yet.

R103: Yes, Mueller drops a nugget here and there between all his difficulty... I hope it will be enough (and he don't backtrack over semantics later)!

This whole event is going to be chopped to death, with each side picking through the rubble to use the pieces that benefit them the most.

If Trump is re-elected, we are ALL FUCKING DOOMED. He has already blown the deficit into the stratosphere, and it will take him no time at all to start a war (insert any shithole country here) so he can use the military weapons he is pouring billions into.

And God only knows what else.

Sure, R107. Too bad there isn't help for your stupidity!

Republicans would have had no problems impeaching Hillary over an overdue Library fine from Yale.

I would have called Nunes the greatest Patriot in that room.

R111 good one! You are both witty and horribly misanthropic. Take a midol?

But her overdue library fines!

Who’s the handsome daddy sitting in front of Jackie Spier? Woof!

R112

I know, R114. And it apparently bothers you.

Can the two mutual troll accusers arrange a hate fuck and get it out of your system. I’ll hold the camera.

sigh so we're not getting impeachment. Mueller is just not that forthcoming. I just don't see the public looking at substance over style.

I'd love to be wrong

ugh Stewart from Utah

No thanks.

A Rethuglian going on and on about "innocent" people being repeatedly accused of really harmful things!

I wish Mueller would push back on the Steele dossier "being fake" but of course he won't

R120 Right. In a few days I think reasonable analysis will conclude that the hearings today reduce the likelihood of impeachment. Not what was intended. In retrospect, Dems should have impeached when the report came out...

I wish just one Democrat would correct the record and bring up how the Steele Dossier was originally paid by one of their fellow Rethugs.

The Republicans are acting as Trump's attorneys and that is not their job.

The only time that Mueller speaks up is when they attack his staff.

Oh just come out and fucking say Drump's team made the leaks.

i no longer feel bad that Mueller's reputation is going down the shitter. He doesn't want to speak up and be more forthcoming how terrible Trump and his campaign are? fine enjoy being trashed by the repub defenders

1 of many examples of why @RepAdamSchiff so successful:

Schiff: "In fact the [Trump] campaign welcomed the Russian help, did they not?" Mueller: "I think we reported in our report indications that did occur"

Think about it: Trump campaign welcomed help from our greatest adversary

Smart question from Quigley re: the Statute of Limitations.

Someone got to Mueller during the break; he seems to be cooperating with the repugs this afternoon.

How about someone tossing a question to the other guy (Zebly?).

R131 And we knew that. This hearing doesn't nothing to make more people know that. That's the disappointment.

Republicans: This report completely exonerates Trump.

Also Republicans: This report is a piece of trash!

a repub with a hipster beard? lmao

Republicans: This report completely exonerates Trump.

Also Republicans: No one has the power to exonerate anyone!

Mueller seems kind of senile

Wow a lot of concern trolls on here. I wonder why ?

“Problematic” is an understatement, Mueller says, about Trump’s descriptions of “loving” WikiLeaks during 2016.

R132 Yes, that is a scary eye opener.

The younger man sitting behind Mueller looks like a little kid who got caught stealing quarters and is waiting for his dad to come home and beat him.

Nunes returns to GPS Fusion, which they keep trying to cast as the villain of the piece.

He reminds me of Aunt Clara from Bewitched when he does the verbal stumbling,

Ok, so Nunes needs to say "Veselnitskaya" sixty-five times fast.

R136 Bubba beards are not hipster beards.

There shouldn't be a statute of limitations on crimes discovered during a President's term. It should be frozen.

When can the investigation into Don Jr. start? Mueller said it was something that should be looked into.

I don't know but it seems that Mueller is being careful not to reveal any redacted info in the report.

And now the guy sitting behind Mueller is trying not to pass out.

The verbal stumbling sounds he makes reminds me of Aunt Clara from Bewitched.

Has Lindsey spoken yet? Will he give a performance dramatic enough to rival his speech at the Kavanaugh hearing?

Wasn't Nunes the guy who wasn't invited to that top secret intelligence briefing around 2 years ago that Nancy P. Chuck S. and the other ranking Repub went to and only Nancy got up to address with (Chuck, for the first time, was not in front of a camera and the Republican seemed really sick about what he'd learned and let Nancy speak). It implied that Nunes was not trustworthy enough to attend the Intelligence meeting. Am I misremembering who it was (Nunes) that was not invited to attend?

Lindsey is in the Senate, not the House.

so far the intelligence committee is going much better than the judiciary which surprises me

I thought the obstruction was so much clearer

I don't know a guy who served during war who isn't hearing impaired. I wouldn't relate it to age.

But is Mueller wearing a hearing aid?

But is Mueller wearing a hearing aid?

NBC News' Jonathan Allen:

I must be watching a different hearing than the rest of the punditry. What I've seen here is Mueller make very clear that he believes the president obstructed justice. That was true in the report, but his testimony went further. It may not be exciting to watch, but it's serious.

R155 Nicole Wallace said they should have had this hearing first. Much more logical... and I suspect Mueller would have been less "frozen" if he'd talked about Russian intervention for a couple hours before "indicting the President."

We heard you. We heard you.

R159 but he's actually focusing on substance. Too many including in the media are focusing on style.

Thank God for Adam Schiff

Great graphic with all of Trump's people labelled "Indicted"!

Nicole had an interesting spin saying that they need to put a lamplight on the problem and make it a positive meaning, Mueller wasnt argumentative or strong because he's non-Partisan and he wasn't polished because he's not rehearsed meaning he's honest and has nothing to hide, and therefore he's trustworthy.

Swalwell doing well

Mueller said he believed that Trump campaign officials using encryption to communicate hampered his investigation.

Great chart connecting all the dingleberries to the turd. Thanks, Eric.

Swalwell is doing great.

Why won't Mueller talk about whether he wanted to subpoena Don Jr.?

R167 and R168!!

R162 The substance has been out there, explicitly, for a while. The point of today was to have the substance presented in a new and more engaging way. We may differ as to whether that happened. I do think the afternoon is much stronger than the morning.

R170 the DOJ letter

Anyone one questioning Mueller's hearing needs to understand that what we hear on video isn't how it sounds in the chamber. We are getting a cleaned up audio direct from the microphones. What is being filtered out is a lot of background noise like echos in the chamber, clicking from cameras etc. Combine that with the fact that he did serve in the military and his not hearing 100% of the questions is understandable.

R170 - maybe, Jr mint has a subpoena elsewhere..

Stefanik’s Q&A was like a vaudeville routine. Everybody was aware nothing was gonna be answered:

Nunes at a loss

I don't think Nunes can help himself from mentioning Clinton. She should get a restraining order.

R159 I agree with that.

This is the first time I've heard the Republicans focusing so much on Joseph Mifsud. Is he new on Hannity's and Limbaugh's radar screen?

oh Joaquin grew a goatee to differentiate himself from his twin haha

This afternoon is much more damaging to Trump than the morning.

[quote]I don't think Nunes can help himself from mentioning Clinton. She should get a restraining order.

Or a pit bull.

R181 did he also get fatter?

R182!!!

I really hope the media focuses on just how much communication Trump campaign and Russia had. This is ridiculous. Imagine those hearing it for the first time

Castro's facial hair is the star of this show

now Hurd is 1 of the more reasonable repubs...will he tow party line and defend Trump?

Castro: The president was telling the same lie

Mueller: I defer to you on that.

Mueller is much more responsive this afternoon. What a fail not to have this hearing first.

R186 Im not sure it matters what the media focuses on. People who support Drumpf are going to only tune in to Fox and they're certainly not going to report on anything logical.

These hearings aren't going to change anyone's opinions.

R188 of course.

As awful as Trump is, I really want to see all his henchmen burn in a thousand hellfires. Nunes, Jordan, Jared, Don Jr. Ivanka, Pence. It's the enablers that I really hate. They just turn a blind eye to all of it. His stans, his voters they are just idiots misguided by their own bad choices and personal failings, but the people like Nunes deserve a special place in hell.

who is that kid sitting behind Swalwell? I'd be hitting that if I were Eric

R190 it's moderates and independents I care about. They are open to changing their minds

oh and Castro is looking hot with that beard. Love to fuck him

OMG a Republican who actually seems concerned about Russian interference.

so Hurd played neutral here. Notice how he didn't ask anything damaging to Trump but he didn't defend him either

R196 that's Hurd. He's 1 of the most reasonable repubs. He did questionably sign the petition that Schiff should resign as Intel chair but I wonder if that was due to pressure. Who knows if maybe he spoke to Schiff behind the scenes about it at all. Hurd is 1 of the few tolerable repubs.

Important to note: No one has been able to dispute a single fact that's in the Mueller report.

R197 "...oh the Russians are trying to attack us right now. And of course will try in the next election." One of Mueller's most forthcoming, sound-bite-ready responses came under a Republican's questioning. Hurd will pay a price.

When it comes down to it a Rethug is a Rethug and there's not a single Rethug that can be trusted. Reasonable or not.

How long is this supposed to go?

so it really seems like Mueller just oversaw a bunch of investigators and prosecutors looking into the various pieces of the Mueller report. He doesn't have full knowledge of every detail

omg ENOUGH of fucking Ratcliffe

Heck did a good job.

lmao desperate Nunes and the leaks. These repigs are such scum

Nunes talking about leaks... priceless.

Same guy who goes running to the WH every chance he gets.

Nunes is so concerned about traitors having their traitorism revealed. Is that because he is a traitor?

Nunes isn't even prepared. How pathetic.

Also, funny how easily those Russian names roll off Nunes' tongue, isn't it?

It was so helpful to have Zelby there.....not.

does the House ever investigate their own? why can't Pelosi and Schiff do something about Nunes?

Nunes is coming off as an utter idiot (not that we didn't already know that). But he's worse than usual. When his own committee members refer time back to him, he has clearly run out of things to ask.

R203, there were 19 Investigators. It would be unreasonable to think that Mueller wrote the whole report or know it inside out. I think he's doing fine considering the magnitude of it all.

a lot of what Nunes wants to ask, Mueller won't answer so he's frustrated

R208 That's typical of people like that.

Did Mueller just not know the word conspiracy?

Ha! Couldn't say there wasn't 100% no conspiracy. So it's not "no collusion".

Nunes looks buff...not as much as Swalwell, but buff still. Has he been lifting weights and working out? He's gotten hotter.

R212 The Repubs are surrendering time in one of the most historical hearings in recent years. Inexcusable lack or preparation, and very unlike the Repubs.

R153, it was Sen. Feinstien (D-California) and Sen. Grassley (R-Iowa) who saw that intelligence report and looked shaken.

Mueller: "I don't know if this is the new normal, but I fear it is." About collusion, essentially. So Dems got everything they could have hoped for out of this hearing.

[quote]Trump can rape and murder a person in Times Square and nothing would happen to him. He is Teflon Trump and it makes me fucking sick.

Yup. Trump said it himself in that infamous statement during the Republican primaries in 2016. He realized he could get away with anything.

So who are you dirty bitches going to pin all your hopes (and deify in the process) on "taking down Trump"? You thought Stormy would. She failed. You thought Avenatti would. He failed. You thought Mueller would. He failed.

I can't wait to vote for another 4 years of Trump! The screeching and meltdowns of you cunts (and those in the media) will be a delightful bonus.

Sean Patrick Maloney is gay folks! 1 of us

This afternoon has gone so much better than this morning.

But Mueller is showing some cognitive issues. Probably due to poor hearing.

He should shave that little circle of hair at the front of his head.

How do Californians keep electing Nunes? Is his district all deplorables?

Asked why he did not subpoena Trump, Mueller says: “We decided that we did not want to exercise the subpoena powers because of the necessity of expediting the end of the investigation.”

He added that there was an expectation Trump would fight the subpoena.

with hubby

they have adopted kids too

Is Sean Patrick Maloney the most Irish name ever?

Having watched him all day, I've come to the conclusion that the reason Muller wanted to talk- and publicly- was to drive home the fact that the Russians are infiltrating the U.S. in myriad ways. He's proud that he uncovered this, considers it the situation dire and feels it got lost in all the politics and partisan in-fighting.

But no one is going to do anything about it, particularly because we have a President in Putin's pocket.

Having watched him all day, I've come to the conclusion that the reason Muller wanted to talk- and publicly- was to drive home the fact that the Russians are infiltrating the U.S. in myriad ways. He's proud that he uncovered this, considers it the situation dire and feels it got lost in all the politics and partisan in-fighting.

But no one is going to do anything about it, particularly because we have a President in Putin's pocket.

R227 yes he is in a deplorable area

Maloney is getting at something. He got some answers! Smart man.

R227 Central valley white shitkickers. As red as you can get. Dem percentage in his district in 2018 was way higher than average. Demographics will eventually turn the district blue. But not in 2020.

Like this guy a lot. And a nice looking couple.

shitkickers lmao that's a funny term

R228, it was a big error on Mueller's part not to interview Trump directly. As anyone in law enforcement or justice knows, cross-examination reveals and accomplishes things that no written submissions can do. Cross-examination is a vital process in getting at the truth which is why it is used in the courtroom.

And of course Maloney’s gay and happily married.

omg Mueller STOP IT.

he can't fucking find anything they cite

Trump just lies and lies and Republicans allow it.

Demings basically got him to partially admit that Trump’s answers clashed with some evidence. Ie he lied.

Deming gets Mueller to admit that Trump didn't answer many questions directed to him and other questions directly contradicted evidence Mueller and his team turned up.

Demings: Was the President credible? Mueller: I can't answer that.

Stacking up the soundbites.

Val was good in both hearings

other ANSWERS directly contradicted evidence Mueller and his team turned up.

So glad that money laundering and other financial operations are being addressed (even if they aren't being answered).

OMG Val Demings just asked Mueller if Trump's written answers were truthful and he said "generally".

Go Demings and Maloney! They were able to ask factual questions without trying to get Mueller to emit an opinion or speculate (which at this point we know he won’t do but the questions have to be anyway asked, for the record).

[quote] The point of today was to have the substance presented in a new and more engaging way.

The Broadway with Annette Bening, John Lithgow and Kevin Kline wasn't enough ?

[quote]Asked why he did not subpoena Trump, Mueller says: “We decided that we did not want to exercise the subpoena powers because of the necessity of expediting the end of the investigation.”

Next question should have been: "Who or what necessitated the expediting of the end of the investigation?"

Nunes seems to be more worn out than Mueller.

Wow, Nunes just threw in the towel there.

R250 Quite apparently not.

bring it home Adam

Wow Nunes couldn't even use up the rest of the time.

Ha. Schiff got Mueller to say it was a crime!

I think I would not be at all surprised to discover that Nunes has kiddie porn on his personal computer. Or that he belongs to some club that trafficks underaged girls and rapes them. Look at his eyes. Ugh.

Devin Nunez is a piece of shit.

Ethical? Republicans have never heard that word.

In what way, R253?

Schiff did a smart thing framing Mueller's career and how he will be criticized.. basically getting ahead of things.

And Schiff is doing what everyone else should have.. coming to the conclusions and getting Mueller to answer yes/no.

Schiff's coda crushes Nunes'

Today's hearings' impact:

Closer to impeaching? No. Damaging Trump's election chances? Maybe.

R261 Im assuming R253 meant that Nunes didnt even bother with the remaining time.

ok c'est fait.

now let the spin begin. The WH, repubs and Fox will focus on the first hearing

I'm hoping the mainstream media focuses on the second hearing but also a few good moments in the first

Schiff: "We are all left to wonder whether the President is representing us or his financial interests."

Nunes didnt even have any closing remarks? WTF. Will he be punished for not denigrating Mueller's career more?

Ending strong.

R251, that is the 64 million dollar question. The inference was Barr did that. Interesting that Mueller dropped that bomb without notice or follow up.

So once again, Mueller basically confirmed that the investigation was closed before he was ready for it to.

Thank god for Schiff.

He seemed sharper this afternoon.

“Problematic is an understatement!” RE Trump’s public enthusiasm for Wikileaks.

[quote]Nunes has to be a Russian.

He's kompromized: he is one of the hooker in drag on that pee pee tape.

Trump: TRUTH IS A FORCE OF NATURE

Where did he get that piece of wisdom from? Did he read it on some tp before wiping his fat arse?

These hearing will accomplish nothing except to up Trump's chance of stroking out.

One can dream.........

don't forget Nunes was associated with Flynn

Fatass is done watching the TV and is about to head out for one of his 'helicopter interviews' where he gets to shout over the propellers angrily, which his fans love.

Per Seth Abramson:

MAJOR BREAKING NEWS: Mueller Confirms Ongoing FBI Trump-Russia Counterintelligence Investigation Is Still Determining Whether Trump Is Compromised By Russia

Look, this was a typical hearing. A lot of it was boring. A lot of it was grandstanding. To his credit Mueller opted not to argue or get into it. He stuck to his report. The main takeaway is that Mueller said some very good, very important stuff. He punted on a other stuff. When ever you have hours and hours of questioning, it allows the media and both sides to cherry pick their facts. But any responsible summary of the highlights of this hearing will be very bad news for Trump. And very bad news for the Republicans. "The Russians a re doing it right now and will continue to do it in the next election. " IMO that soundbite needs to be repeated a million times over and the fact that McConnell is blocking any attempts to stop it is extremely important.

R279 Holy shit - Okay I gotta dig into that one.

Speaker Pelosi will join House Intel Chair Schiff and House Judiciary Chair Nadler for a press conference at approximately 4:45pm.

R283 Thanks but afraid to get my hopes up about anything now. Too deflated from morning hearing.

CNN's Jake Tapper just said that Mueller's testimony contradicted Trump on several occasions, so that's good news.

It was a nightmare-he had a lot of ammunition, and he could have chosen to say a lot more in order to save this country. It really is horrid. And, lets be honest--he is a REPUBLICAN. And, the only time that he spoke publicly during the investigation was to basically defend the POS.

The dems just blew 2020. Trump will be reelected. Mueller is a fucking coward traitor

Ridiculous. The 2020 election is not going to hinge on Mueller's testimony.

R287: Not so quick. Dems did not blow anything. Also, the public is still not convinced and even more pissed.

It’s over. This is the last thing they could have done regarding the mueller report. They need to either impeach him or move on. No ones mind was changed today.

So is Nancy going to impeach?? What the fuck is she waiting for??

It’s 15 months from now to the election. In politics, that’s a lifetime. A lot will happen between today and November 2020.

Waste of time. Everything was in the redacted report.

R292, yes you're right. I'm praying for a videotape of Trump using the N word, or worse.

[quote]Not so quick. Dems did not blow anything

Did I hear the word BLOW?

I believe Nancy ought to highlight the fact that nothing is being done to stop Russian interference. That is a huge take away. The other one is Mueller confirming the President's obstruction criminality.

R294: Need worse. The N-word would be endearing to his followers.

I was in a radiology waiting room today. Pretty much nobody was paying attention to the hearing on tv. I wasn't either. He was giving one word answers, obviously not wanting to testify.

R297, he could rape a minor in front of his followers and they'd keep on insisting on how much he loves children, so ... '

After the hearing, it was mentioned that Russia is behind the anti-vaccine campaign. It sounds like they're trying to wipe out future Americans. If that is true, Putin is Hitlerish. What a nightmare.

Look. Why is anyone surprised that there is a hard core of politicians and media types who are so invested in this PResidency for a variety of reasons, that they will lie cheat and steal to keep him in place. If he tells them the sun sets in the East they will agree. I expect that. We need to stop worrying about what "They" are saying and start getting our own shit together.We should Not be playing Defense. We need to be prepared, to anticipate, and to attack, attack,attack. Make their lives miserable.

R300, this Russian-led anti vaccination campaign is not just happening in America, but all over Europe as well.

Putin is a disruptor. That's his game. Anti vaccers, NRA pouring guns into our communities, mass shootings, etc. etc. Black Lives Matter being co-opted, the ascendance of the White Supremacy movement, it is endless. They were behind all the anti Muslim bullshit and are stoking the immigration stuff. Believe it.

Dems are being way too nice about Muellers testimony (MSNBC..). The fact is that he had the power to blow Trump away with what he knows----and he should have. The country is so divided right now- the idiot Trump supporters needed a reality smack down, and it should have been served by the one man that has the knowledge and the stage. He did not do it. He is a R through and through and I have lost all (lost a lot when he spoke publicly to defend POS during the investigation as I said earlier) and this was just as bad. Or, worse, really. It was a gross display of party over country.

Surprise surprise this was rinse repeat. I don't understand Democrats, they needed something ELSE, not this.

Did anyone ask him, “what was redacted?” Not that he would answer.

Its incumbent on every person to look in the mirror and ask: Is this behavior OK for a President of the USA. If you answer yes, or that it doesnt matter, then you deserve what you get.

The Steele dossier is only 'fake' or 'dirty' or 'refuted' just because the Russiapublicans have been saying that over and over and over for 3 years. They of course zeroed-in on the peeing hookers rumors, which was only a tiny part of it. So of course the week-minded sheeple now believe it was a 'phony witch hoax'.

This was a British dude (not a dumb American) with a 30-year career. Why would he put out garbage?

The Steele dossier is only 'fake' or 'dirty' or 'refuted' just because the Russiapublicans have been saying that over and over and over for 3 years. They of course zeroed-in on the peeing hookers rumors, which was only a tiny part of it. So of course the week-minded sheeple now believe it was a 'phony witch hoax'.

This was a British dude (not a dumb American) with a 30-year career. Why would he put out garbage?

The problem, R307 is, the rest of us are hostages to his fascism and we don't deserve it.

[quote]The dems just blew 2020. Trump will be reelected.

It's too early to predict. A lot can happen. New poll today:

Democrats hold 7-point lead on generic 2020 ballot

Personally r309, I am a week-end-minded sheeple.

When did Mueller defend Trump?

R303, you're right. But like any power-hungrypower-hungry dictator, he needs the right events and circumstances to exploit.

There's a film by Adam Curtis (hypernormalisation) that has some insight as what is happening today.

Mueller didn't defend Trump. When asked pointed questions in the intelligence hearing -- and not that long rambling shit from the first hearing-- Mueller confirmed that there was a conspiracy, investigations into a conspiracy are still ongoing and there was obstruction by Trump.

He didn't.

OK. We have how many states that a re solidly Democratic. NY, Illinois, California, what else? So we count those electoral votes. Then we focus state resources on the other states we need to get to 272 Electoral votes. Make sure there's no interference, and we can win this.

GAG! “Our President, me, we’ve had great 2&1/2 yrs!”

I ADORE Adam Curtis movies but they are hypnotic poems, far from a "logic" the hoi polloi can latch onto.

R313, After BuzzFeed published an article on Thursday claiming authorities have proof President Donald Trump directed his personal attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress — an obstruction of justice and an impeachable offense, if true — Mueller’s team hit back.

In a very rare statement, which was issued on Friday, the special counsel investigating the alleged conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russian officials challenged the story’s accuracy.

According to BuzzFeed reporters Anthony Cormier and Jason Leopold, Trump, 72, allegedly told his then-attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about plans to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

“BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s Congressional testimony are not accurate,” his spokesman, Peter Carr, told PEOPLE in a statement.

The thing is-------------------why did they speak for the first time EVER for this while there were god knows what stories going on about Trump and his lies and what the Mueller report will or won't reveal. They allowed Trump to lambaste them time and time again, tell lies etc...but THIS is what got his ire???

Ok. Agreed, Yes this is weird. Wtf is it w Mueller?

In a press pool prior to leaving for a rally, Trump was asked by NBC's Hallie Jackson if he was worried that he could be indicted out of office, which Mueller testified could happen. Trump called Jackson “fake news” and “one of the worst."

Exactly, R320. That raised an eyebrow for me, and now today. People can say that he told the truth, etc. But, its more about what he did NOT do. He did not use his knowledge to wipe the floor with Trump. He was sleeping through what could have been the greatest moment in history.

Trump: “Honestly, it’s been collusion with the media and the Democrats.” Talk about a co-opt.

Why aren't Democrat operative READY this week with another huge leak on the shit show that is Trump. A sucker punch? They KNEW THEY KNEW KNEW KNEW this Mueller shit would be a wash like the first go round with it.

R2923 …. which no one read.

PBS' Yamiche Alcindor asked Trump about Mueller’s statement that Trump’s written answers were “generally untruthful."

Trump: “He didn’t say that ... When you ask that question, you’re untruthful.”

Trump calls Mueller testimony, "One of the worst performances in the history of our country."

Odd, since he also claims that Mueller's testimony completely exonerated him.

Can’t somebody shut him up?!

Were still waiting for the Pelosi, Nadler and Schiff presser to start, right?

MSNBC reporter: White House officials are "positively gleeful" about today's developments.

R326, Orwellian propaganda. It is so sick.

As far as I know, R329, it's still to come.

So why is Trump still lying and when will those reporters outside the White House, be honest about his lies?

The "fix" has been in ever since the judiciary decided to become a blatant political player courtesy of the federalist bots and the Bush v Gore abortion. We've clearly been infiltrated. Barr may even be protecting Hans from the party; they're all a bunch of fucking sell out republicans if you ask me. I expected this type of Mr. Magoo meltdown by Hans Mueller. I'm surprised he didn't start off his testament with the declaration that he was dying.

Trump will never be held responsible for anything, he never has. The hedonistic life he has led hurting people all his life , attacking women, bankrupting companies he refused to pay, putting people out of jobs and homes for his projects, bringing his mistress on a family vacation...nothing. He's been rewarded time after time and now is the most powerful person in the world. And his his fans and entire Republican party cheer and he will be re-elected.

The worst takeaway for me today was the speculation about how Russia, which Mueller states is continuing to meddle in our elections, will change up their game and do it differently this time around. Frank Figliuzzi told Nicole Wallace that anything can happen, maybe "power outages on election night?" and my blood pressure jumped thirty points.

I don't want to give up, I want him hanging by his neck until dead.

I don't want to give up, I want him hanging by his neck until dead.

R335, unfortunately, yes.

Good on Val Demings for getting Mueller to admit Trump lied to him.

[quote]Rep. Demings: "Isn't it fair to say [Trump's] written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didn't answer many of your questions, but where he did, his answers show that he wasn't always being truthful?"

[quote]Mueller: "Generally."

Everyone from John Dean on CNN to Chuck Rosenberg and Andrew McCabe on MSNBC is criticizing Mueller for not forcing Trump to testify. And it’s all over Twitter too.

R335 makes a good point.

I don't think some people realize that American culture rewards people like Trump.

How is ok for the president not to be truthful??

The only way for the Dems to salvage this day is to announce impeachment proceedings this afternoon.

I guess other criminals get away with their crimes but they usually aren't president. I want him in prison.

I guess other criminals get away with their crimes but they usually aren't president. I want him in prison.

I think what we’ve learned from the Trump presidency is that the American public takes a huge leap of faith when they elect any person to the office of president. We can elect anyone to that office and once in office that person has multiple safety valves to remain in office and to protect and continue corruption. And there are only two real vehicles to remove a corrupt president from office, congress or the next election. If Congress will not act, then it falls to the voters. If the voters won’t do it, then maybe we do truly get the government that we deserve. At some point someone needs to ask when is enough... enough and does a document written 229 years ago truly serve our current needs and does it protect us from a corrupt president and ultimately from ourselves?

R343 somehow, since this POS has been in the WH, its always ok. And, Mueller basically turned his back on this country by NOT exposing him as a criminal and a liar when he had the greatest opportunity to do so. He sat in a dentists chair today.

[quote]rump will never be held responsible for anything, he never has.

I'm not willing to give up yet, but it is true that evil people sometimes (often?) escape punishment. Especially if they're rich and powerful. That's not just an American reality, it's universal. It's one of the reasons the biblical concept of hell was so alluring ... it offered the downtrodden the promise that their persecutors would be punished in the next world.

Yeah people that say Trump will win in 2020 are fucking lazy ass concern trolls. How the fuck do we expect to win with that attitude??

Maybe he’ll become overconfident now and overplay his hand. Pride goeth before a fall.

Manu Raju: Nancy Pelosi no closer to calling for an impeachment inquiry.

R350, no, they are not "concern trolls" (eye roll). What they are are people that have seen a travesty today. We have witnessed the normalization of a malignant POTUS by way of Mueller staying silent and having to be forced to say what was needed. And, he surely did not. So, now because this shitty POTUS and his lies and fucked up lunacy have been normalized, he and his fucked up supporters will continue their horrific idealogical bullshit and the Dems will sit idle as they did today. Lets hope people do NOT sit idle and allow the Trump supporters and the Russians win, but fuck if they dont have a better chance now that this shit has been allowed to be a normal occurrence.

[quote] If the voters won’t do it

They did do it. Three million more people voted for Clinton. It was the electoral college that gave us Rump, just like it gave us W. How many times have democrats won the popular vote over Republicans in the last several decades?

[quote]Mueller confirmed that there was a conspiracy, investigations into a conspiracy are still ongoing and there was obstruction by Trump.

The second one is the only one that is news. The first and third have been known to many for a long time.

So “no one is above the law” except this president?

Oh shut it R335

And R353 shut it

Go screw, R357.

So I guess the ball is in Pelosi’s court now. What’s she gonna do about this?

Pelosi now speaking.

If she had any smarts, Nancy will get out her doody scooper and bury this whole shit show in the deepest pit she and her fellow Democrats can dig.

Pelosi highlights this chart:

Shut up Pelosi. Let Schiff talk.

Why is Schumer not there?

Pelosi is also a Trump sell out. Don't be fooled.

Mueller’s a sellout.

The Redacted Version of the United States Of America

Schumer is powerless in the Senate. This is the House’s show.

Schumer's hiding from being asked questions about Al Franken.

I’d like to thank Mueller for NOTHING.

Mueller fucked this country with Trumps dildo.

Guess this press conference was delayed while Pelosi twisted the Chairmen’s arms. They need to impeach now, but instead they just look defeated.

The good news is he said there are a bunch of counterintel investigations going on

Not anymore, R373. Not after today.

Rep. Elijah Cummings: "It's not about not liking the president, it's about loving democracy ... I am begging the American people to pay attention to what is going on."

Quit lying, r365. FF

R373 These people have been saying this shit for months now “Mueller’s investigating you guys! Just wait till that report comes out! We’re gonna get Trump good, just wait and see!”

Fucking losers.

Please, R376, how do you NOT see it? She has and had NO intention of impeaching him. EVER.

so Nancy is hinting maybe at impeachment. “This isn’t endless.”

[quote] Democrats hold 7-point lead on generic 2020 ballot

That is ATROCIOUS. The current inhabitant of the White House is a severely mentally disturbed person who revels in hate, chaos, thievery and juvenile name calling. Democrats should have at least a 40% lead over this specimen of hardened bile.

R376, I guess Pelosi's son hanging w Trumps at Maralago was a fluke. Please.

Pelosi: "The stronger our case is the worse the Senate will look for voting impeachment down."

At least now everyone can come together and start working on real legislation that could actually become law instead of obsessing on how to remove Trump outside of an election.

When you get a roadmap from the gas station, you don’t also expect the attendant to drive you to your destination. This is the whole problem with the Democrats.

R384, when you want a roadmap from the gas station, you don't look to punch the attendant in the face and demand that he give it to you. This is the whole problem with the Republicans.

When there is a whore piss soaked road map on the floor of the gas station john, you don't make lemonade to serve at a State Dinner?

Pelvis I needs to step down. I can hear her dentures clacking together (happened to my mother in law when her face lost fat and collagen as she aged....her mouth kind of collapsed). She looks like an embalmed corpse that escaped from the funeral parlor. Why aren't there any smart, charismatic democrats who don't look like they're only out for themselves?

It's not hard. Health care. Lost jobs. Highways, bridges. Forget the free college shit -- young people don't vote & non-college educated people resent it. They think, "Why the hell should they get something for free when I'm not getting something for free? That's elitist."

Democrats look like waffling incompetents. The whole Mueller report was a dud & so was Mueller's feeble, reticent testimony today. He backtracked obstruction of justice. Like well, yeah he could be charge but dunno if he could be indicted." Thanks a bunch, bitch. I've never seen anyone testify like that to congress.

And of thanks a lot, fucking Rashida Tlaib, for acting like an asshole. Americans hate what they perceive to be left wing radicals. Ask Abbie Hoffman - oh wait. He committed suicide because he was a failure. Richard Nuxon won reelection in a landslide thanks to the Chicago 7.

What’s a roadmap?

Mueller & Barr are long time great friends, their wives are too! This whole thing was a COMPLETE FUCKING REPUBLICAN INSIDER SHAM.

We would have gotten a more honest report if Mueller had handed the whole thing to Roseanne “Barr”!

Fuck you R387.

Ok, autocorrect turned Pelosi into Pelvis and I didn't see it.

Fuck you, R390. R387 is right on fucking target.

Right wingers are having a fucking field day. Time to walk away from DataLounge for a few days.

[quote]Yeah people that say Trump will win in 2020 are fucking lazy ass concern trolls. How the fuck do we expect to win with that attitude??

It's also frustrating to have watched people breathlessly announcing Trump's demise for the past 4 years.

2015 -- he won't win the Republican nomination

2016 -- well he won the Republican nomination but he won't win the general election

2017 -- well he won the Presidency but he will be gone by the end of 2017

2018 -- the Mueller Report will destroy Trump and he won't run for a 2nd Term

2019 -- well he's running for a 2nd term, but he won't win in 2020 . . .

Do you see the pattern here? Every year people have underestimated Trump and that's what got us into this mess in the first place.

Michael Moore on Twitter:

[quote]A frail old man, unable to remember things, stumbling, refusing to answer basic questions...I said it in 2017 and Mueller confirmed it today — All you pundits and moderates and lame Dems who told the public to put their faith in the esteemed Robert Mueller — just STFU from now on

Yep.

[quote]So I guess the ball is in Pelosi’s court now. What’s she gonna do about this?

Wag her finger....sternly.

Sadly, it's going to take dictatorship and genocide for America to wake up. By then, of course, it will be too late.

it just seems that at every turn Trump is able to declare victory. Even though he fucking broke the law, at least for the moment he's getting away with it.

I don't understand how much more is needed before all the House Democrats decide to open the impeachment inquiry. I mean if they're saying he's a criminal, you're just gonna be cool with that?

and go on vacation in a few days? That doesn't seem urgent

Time is running out on impeachment hopes. If Trump is not impeached and he gets reelected, that may mean the statutes on any crimes he could be charged with as of now would be expired by Jan 2025.

God R397, I hope the fuck not.

R396 Yeah. “I MIGHT consider impeachment...at some point in the future...MAYBE...depending on the courts...we’re WORKING on it you guys. Promise! Just you wait and see!”

You know, the idea of Trump getting defeated next year and the indicted on January 21st 2021 is a beautiful notion. Prison.

“Meanwhile...VACATION TIME! So long guys!”

The only way Trump will be defeated is by the Democrats uniting behind a strong Nominee with a good set of polices and ideas that resonate with ordinary voters in the swing states so that Trump can be defeated in the Electoral College.

it says a lot about how awful white Americans as a whole are when despite all of Trump's crimes, lies, propaganda, bigotry, corruption and lack of civility, Trump still has 46% approval rating and stands a chance of being reelected.

The fact that Democrats have to be so perfect and precise and concerned with picking the right nominee while Trump can just keep bs'ing his way around is a disgrace.

You said it, R404.

[quote]Democrats hold 7-point lead on generic 2020 ballot

[quote]That is ATROCIOUS. The current inhabitant of the White House is a severely mentally disturbed person who revels in hate, chaos, thievery and juvenile name calling. Democrats should have at least a 40% lead over this specimen of hardened bile.

That's not possible in a polarized electorate. The U.S. has been polarized since the 2000 Election. It is not possible to get those sort of numbers or leads when a core base and percentage of the population is committed to one particular party.

Even in a very good year for the Democrats like 2008, Obama couldn't beat McCain by more than 7 points. A 7-point lead is about as high as you can get in a Presidential race in today's environment.

[quote] All you pundits and moderates and lame Dems who told the public to put their faith in the esteemed Robert Mueller — just STFU from now on

And all those Sanders supporters who were slamming Clinton every chance they could get and disrupting the democratic convention can STFU from now on too.

Michael Moore is a phony baloney.

While I don't agree with Michael Moore, you all have admit that democrats have been begging for some kind of savior or miracle to derail Trump since 2016. Your God is not on our side here. He's not going to descend from the heavens and save us. We are the only ones who can fix this. We took a positive step in 2018, now we have to do the same thing on a much bigger scale in 2020. Don't let the concern trolls and the disrupters and bots get in your head about all of this. Organize, stay focused, rally, and vote.

Ikr, r404.

I was behind not one, not two but three different trucks with Trump stickers on them yesterday in traffic.

I see more Trump stickers now than I did in 2016.

The republicans are officially the white nationalist party. And a majority of whites are not only cool with it — they actually like it. And plenty of POC like him, too.

Not sure why Pelosi is getting blamed. The republicans are the ones we need to hold accountable. We can’t just shrug them off. They are truly anti-American & anti-Democracy.

[quote]Forget the free college shit -- young people don't vote & non-college educated people resent it. They think, "Why the hell should they get something for free when I'm not getting something for free? That's elitist."

Oh bug off R387. 36% of people ages 18-29 voted in the mid-terms making up 13% of the overall electorate.

Stop acting like they don't matter when they could make a difference at this point.

And you're also acting like people outside of that age bracket (millennials) who are still paying loans won't benefit from that.

[quote]And of thanks a lot, fucking Rashida Tlaib, for acting like an asshole. Americans hate what they perceive to be left wing radicals. Ask Abbie Hoffman - oh wait. He committed suicide because he was a failure. Richard Nuxon won reelection in a landslide thanks to the Chicago 7.

The people you see today like Nancy were the radicals of yesterday but time changes things, doesn't it? People like Rashida & AOC aren't going anywhere. They will eventually become the norm and a few decades from now someone will see them as conservative. It's the circle of life.

It's ovah.

You can’t win emotional arguments with reasonable arguments. Liberals always make this mistake.

My mom’s family lives in Devin Nunes’s district and they are all total immigrant-hating, frothing at the mouth Deplorable assholes (in fact, my one cousin is a dead-ringer for Lara Trump, fake tits and lips and all). There are very red sections of California (Fresno and Clovis, in particular). It’s also a very heavy Afro area. In fact, Free Republic is based out of Fresno.

*Agro (agricultural), not Afro.

so I overheard someone today talking about how impressed they were with fucking Ratcliffe (the guy who yelled at Mueller for writing he could not exonerate Trump). They thought Ratcliffe really dismantled Mueller and showed he wasn't acting like a prosecutor should. Of course it was clear that this person did not know of or understand that Mueller took the unusual step of writing he could not exonerate Trump because he took the OLC policy into consideration but wanted to make it clear he found crimes that Trump had committed.

This is the problem we face. The repubs, Trump and Fox "News" benefit from a lot of Americans not knowing all the laws and protocols so they can take advantage and mislead them.

If everyone knew about the OLC policy, they'd know Ratcliffe was full of shit and it was a theatrical display of nonsense

Here's the thing - Mueller came across today not as a moral touchstone and defender of justice but as an old guy in a nursing home who looked like he wanted to go back to his room. "Quit asking me all these questions, I wanna see Wheel!"

He has said over and over again that there was no collusion or conspiracy with Russia and the Trump campaign. He said Trump *could* be charged with obstruction of justice when he's no longer president - not that Trump *should* be charged, and certainly not that he should be indicted.

Not only do deplorables think that means the whole investigation was a waste of time - so do other people who generally don't pay attention to the news because they're busy with their lives. When I worked & had kids I did not obsess over the news. I might have turned on CNN and listened to the headlines for a few minutes. I had to grocery shop, do the laundry, help with homework, prepare meals, tuck into bed, get clothes ready for the next day. I was usually interrupted when listening to the news. I'm retired now and I can very closely follow news stories. Most people can't They see or hear a headline here and there. They see Chuck Todd saying "the optics were a disaster." They think today wrapped up the whole Mueller thing and that is that. They think democrats tried & failed to get Trump thrown out of office.

If Democrats try to impeach, the plain old regular schmucks will think "Oh no! They won't take no for an answer! They are horrible and just hate Trump."

Congress may vote to impeach, but the senate will not convict. Mitch McConnell will stand up there cackling at the democrats, saying they failed again. Most Americans don't even know the difference between the house and the senate, Medicaid and Medicare, impeachment and conviction. When they hear the senate threw out the impeachment charges, they're going to see it as another failure for democrats. It will make democrats look persistently weak. Obama was not a great president. He was mediocre. We know he was obstructed, but they don't. He got very little done and came across as a liberal black guy who made speeches about America but didn't do anything. ACA was a love letter to insurance companies. Most Americans don't even know ACA is Obamacare. He let the banks walk away from throwing the world into a near-depression. He made nobody pay for that. He got the Iran deal by giving them money they've wanted for decades. We know it was their money, but most Americans hate Iran and think he paid them off.

Most working class & middle class people will see impeachment as another failed attempt by democrats to get rid of Trump. The candidates we are fielding SUCK. If you want to lose, impeach Trump. The right wing media is everywhere & it's loud and persistent and it's already getting its twisted message across - Mueller was a failure. Russian collusion was not true. Democrats lost. Personally, I think Mueller is a disgrace. He deliberately downplayed EVERYTHING. But I'm not most of America.

Know your audience.

[quote] he took the OLC policy into consideration but wanted to make it clear he found crimes that Trump had committed

Actually Mueller came back after the break to correct his previous statement, to say that he did NOT come to any conclusions that crimes were committed due to the OLC policy.

[quote] The people you see today like Nancy were the radicals of yesterday

Nancy Pelosi is from a wealthy political family. Her father was a congressman and the mayor of Baltimore. Her brother was the mayor of Baltimore as well. She was a beauty pageant winner. Nancy Pelosi was never, ever a radical.

So now [italic] you [/italic] kindly fuck off.

R414, I liked it better as Afro.

Nancy Pelosi was full of shit as usual. She has NO INTENTION of ever impeaching Trump. She wants him voted out in the next election.

But that's far from guaranteed.

So Republican Rod Rosenstein appointed Republican Robert Mueller to investigate a Republican president. And we scratch our heads wondering why this was a shit show today. Why was a feeble, confused old man appointed as special counsel? This is why he’s Teflon Don.

[quote]You can’t win emotional arguments with reasonable arguments. Liberals always make this mistake.

R412 makes a good point.

Elections are usually decided based on emotion rather than intellect.

A good book on this subject is "The Political Brain -- The Role of Emotion in Deciding the Fate of the Nation" by Drew Westen, Ph.D.

It explores the psychological and scientific research on how voting behavior is determined. And why Democrats like Franklin Roosevelt, Bill Clinton & Barack Obama succeeded, and why Al Gore & John Kerry did not.

R415, I saw him as a bully. In fact, all the Republicans came off as bullies. It was cringe worthy and made me feel sorry for Mueller. No matter what, he is an American war hero, he has served this country . He may be old and not totally in command, but he still deserves respect. Especially from some of the younger Republicans grilling him.I think the Republicans came off very poorly.

[quote]Wtf is it w Mueller?

Republican Mueller covering for a Republican POTUS.

Matt Gaetz was incredibly disrespectful, loud, and cuntish. Rep. Steube (who I unfortunately resemble quite a lot and we’re the same age) was also a complete asshole.

I mean, they all were.

It wasn't showing him respect to drag him out of retirement and prop him up in front of a camera to act embarrassingly old and confused in the hope of getting some juicy soundbites.

Most people did not watch the hearings today. They were not riveting. So people will depend on press reports to decide what to think. Fox News viewers are hopeless, but all other sources are stressing the facts and downplaying the performance aspect. Selected clips stress the important moments. It will take a day or so to really judge the effect.

R423 yes but see here's the problem. The people who already lean right think if a republican speaks confidently and forcefully, he/she is correct. They see Mueller's hemming and hawing as a weakness and suspicious. They really are style over substance. It's the same reason why in addition to hating her political views, they think Pelosi is a liar. She frequently stammers when she speaks extemporaneously.

If Mueller had confidently and forcefully answered questions, repubs would have still claimed victory as they always do but they'd look more desperate.

All the TRUTH is in the blacked out part of the Mueller Report. Even though we paid for it all as taxpayers, we can never see it because it completely incriminates him as a TRAITOR among all his other daily scams & shams & crimes!

Let the trolls laugh and act like they won. They've shot off their mouths before only to get it smacked shut. After the midterms when, at first, it didn't look like a blue wave happened. The trolls crowed and laughed and made thread after thread about it. Within 24 hours, it was clear there was a huge blue wave.

Yes, Mueller did a shit job today. He will not change any deplorable mind and really, who cares? But to the true independents and moderates, they pay attention to the nuance. Our WH resident did not come off great today. They will not want 4 more years of this.

I don't know why Mueller wouldn't even read his own report when asked. He wouldn't even explain in plain terms what legalese he used meant. The right has based him over and over yet he seemed pissed the Dems forced him to testify.

Washington Post:

6 takeaways from Robert Mueller’s testimony

L.A. Times:

A quick guide to GOP attacks against the credibility of Mueller's probe

I have PTSD from watching this today. I was in college the night Nixon got elected, and I thought the world was going to end. Little did I know it would ever come to something like this. I'm glad my parents, especially my mother, who were very interested in politics, aren't alive to see this.

[quote]If Mueller had confidently and forcefully answered questions

That’s the sad part. Besides looking old and confused he clearly didn’t give a shit about anything he was asked about. (Besides defending himself and his employees. That’s the one thing that seemed to wake him up from his snooze.)

Why were people expecting Mueller to read his report? That's why you have staff. The staff does all the research, all the writing, and then briefs and provides talking points for the director on what has happened. If people want to get to the bottom of what's in that report, you don't go to Mueller, you go to his staff. This happens all the time, the director gives a brief executive summary of what happens then turns the floor over to his staff to get in the weeds answer deep dive questions about the findings.

>I don't know why Mueller wouldn't even read his own report when asked.

Because he is a lawyer and he knew that he couldn't perjure himself.

“Mueller flop”

It was not a flop at all if you take in the entire testimony, especially in the afternoon.

I swear these media ass-wipes carry on as if they only watched the first 90 minutes...or only want to echo the WH talking points.

CNN:

John Dean, ex-Nixon WH counsel, says Mueller did not 'vigorously pursue' Trump subpoena

it's dumb for people in the media to call Mueller a flop. Was it a knockout performance? no but they got the facts out there. What the Democrats were able to get him to say DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR TRUMP

but once a-fucking-gain the mainstream media and some Democratic pundits let the repubs and repub media set the narrative. NEWSFLASH: the repubs have learned now to always set the narrative as positive for them. Look what Barr did with the Mueller report. We've been working backwards since then. Trump, Barr and Fox do it. When will Democrats and the mainstream media learn to set the narrative loud and clearly first and put the repubs on their heels for a change?

[quote]it's dumb for people in the media to call Mueller a flop.

It's what any rational person who saw any of the show would conclude.

Putin wanted Trump to win to put chaos into the American political system. He knew the dems would try to impeach him. Putin hates the US. He's jealous of the success that this country has.

R440, yes, that's part of the problem.

Trump learned how to play the media back in his days as a tabloid celebrity and a reality t.v. star, and he's carried on using those techniques right into the Presidency.

Trump pointed out that it wasn't Mueller's fault since he, Mueller, had nothing to work with. That was unusually magnanimous.

[quote] Trump learned how to play the media back in his days as a tabloid celebrity and a reality t.v. star, and he's carried on using those techniques right into the Presidency.

The real problem is too many Americans are barely literate fools.

Mueller acts like a hostage. He was appointed as the Special Counsel because the Repugs wanted him there. They 'have' something on him (like they had something on Justice Anthony Kennedy). He's beaten-down, and the only way he can save his reputation is to do whatever the Repugs tell him to do.

[quote] But to the true independents and moderates, they pay attention to the nuance.

What country are you posting from? Not the United States, that's for sure. "Nuance"? Independents and moderates? They wait til the last minute and vote for the guy they'd most want to have a beer with.

People were at work today. They weren't sitting around watching tv. They'll half listen to headlines whatever media they use puts forth.

Add Jeremy Bash and John Heilemann on MSNBC to the list of people bashing Mueller and his sad performance today. They’re PISSED. And Brian Williams started and finished his newscast tonight referring to Mueller as old and “frail” and openly questioning whether he’s mentally competent. Said there have been rumors circulating for months that Mueller is not what he used to be and not up to the task he was given. Another commenter on the show (don’t remember the name) who has worked with Mueller in the past agrees with that assessment, says the Mueller he saw today is not the same man he knew.

[quote] Mueller acts like a hostage. He was appointed as the Special Counsel because the Repugs wanted him there. They 'have' something on him (like they had something on Justice Anthony Kennedy). He's beaten-down, and the only way he can save his reputation is to do whatever the Repugs tell him to do.

That clarification he read when he came back from the break was STRAIGHT from Barr.

Mueller followed orders.

Michael Schmidt of the NYT:

“Soon after the special counsel’s office opened, aides noticed Mueller kept noticeably shorter hours than he had @ FBI. In the past year, as negotiations w/ Trump’s lawyers dragged on, Mueller took part less and less.”

Author, Harvard law professor, and critic of President Trump, Laurence Tribe -

[quote] Much as I hate to say it, this morning’s hearing was a disaster. Far from breathing life into his damning report, the tired Robert Mueller sucked the life out of it. The effort to save democracy and the rule of law from this lawless president has been set back, not advanced.

Mueller had some goddamned nerve behaving like that in front of congress & the American people, as if he couldn't be fucking bothered.

We paid his salary all of his working life.

We'll pay his pension.

He works for us and he behaved like a surly schoolboy in the principal's office.

All day long Mueller said stuff like, "No, that is not in my purview."

I wished to God he had said that 2 years ago when they asked him if he wanted to run the investigation.

Mueller had a chance to be an American Hero, like Lincoln or Armstrong or FDR! But he’ll just be a lowly status quo chump. He folded to Barr & the big $ Republican power structure!

Wait till his sidekick is called back. The young gut who ran everything. We have not seen the last of this or him.

M u r i e l put A Treasonable Mind (The Mueller Investigation Part 112) behind the DL pay wall. Like a Royalty Gossip Thread. Like a soap thread.

Not one post in 5 hours on one of the busiest info days for the Treason threads.

Not one post. Makes you go Hmmmmmmm.

I stand by my previous statement in characterizing Meuller (and Comey) as being 'dimwitted'. I meant by this that these two are far past their prime, whereupon they had a fire in their souls to stand for what is right and moral. Now, however, they are merely the shells of their former selves. Weak in both body, mind and spirit, they should allow those whom they mentored in the past that now have zest for life and passion on their best wishes and hope that should speak on their behalf.

I noticed this trait in the boomer generation that they are supremely lacking in the ability to trust upon others. Meuller should have taken it to task that he look his most upright rather than some stammering used-to-be, I-can't-remember-my-own-work dingbat. Sad...just sad....

Mueller acted like a man terrified to state the obvious. The question remains: Why?

There are some evil powers that be. He probably fears for his family.

And in the Bizarro World we are living in now, Trump is taking a victory lap.

Did anyone ask him why he didn't indict Jr for the Trump Tower meeting and Hope Hicks for trying to cover it up on Air Force One?

R448, What 75 year old is the same person they were decades ago?

I think , IMO, Mueller is unwell. He acted like someone who's had a stroke, or someone in the very earliest stages of Alzheimer's. I'm not trying to be funny. He might have been OK two years ago, but something happened in the past year or so.

Everyone slows down at some point. This seems like more than that. He had over all responsibility for the investigation and he got some really good people to staff it, but no, he isn't the same guy who led the FBI ten years ago. There's a deficit.

I think he was very aware of it and that's why he decided not to testify, and let the report be his testimony. And he refused to read aloud from his report and instead arranged for the members of Congress to read portions and he confirmed them. He wasn't "befuddled" as some characterized him, he just couldn't see who was speaking, a few times. The reason I lean towards a stroke is because he seemed mentally aware, but had trouble getting the words out.

Of course the Republicans and conspiracy theorists are going to go after him now accusing him of not writing the Report. But that's bull shit. I also wonder now if his health didn't intervene, and that's why they wanted to "expedite the conclusion of the investigation."

Mueller had that attorney with him for a reason. He needed the support. Barr knows that and took full advantage of it. I think Mueller's team pushed back against Barr and convinced Mueller to go public back in May.

Mueller did what he could yesterday. Unfortunately the media wants blood, drama, and spectacle. But if you look at the content of what Mueller confirmed yesterday he said plenty. Enough for us to run this corrupt bastard and his gang of thugs out of the White House.

I agree with r463 - I also suspect he has issues with his hearing too. I feel badly for him because I think these are the reasons he really didn't want to testify.

He wasn't very impressive but everybody should get off his back. He led an investigative team that produced the work it did. Somehow it's his fault for seeming to feel his age. Somehow he was supposed to single handedly write the report himself, which is ridiculous. The whole thing is stupid. We live in a very stupid time. The findings speak for themselves.

[quote]M u r i e l put A Treasonable Mind (The Mueller Investigation Part 112) behind the DL pay wall. Like a Royalty Gossip Thread. Like a soap thread.

In fairness, this site is a for-profit undertaking, the fee to access if $1.50 a month and if you can't afford $1.50 a month no one has any interest in anything you have to say.

[quote] A Treasonable Mind The Mueller Investigation Part 112

That's over 67,000 posts of speculation. Hours and hours of precious time wasted.

It will be interesting to see the public turn on the "woke" cheerleaders of this mess.

[quote]and if you can't afford $1.50 a month no one has any interest in anything you have to say.

What a gross way to put it. I hate knowing that I interact with the likes of you on DL.

I believe Mueller's wife was threatened. Psychics kept saying, "he loves his wife, he really loves his wife a lot"... but did not understand why. After yesterday's performance - that threat is probably what they have on him. Also heard there was a TON of security for him when he left court yesterday - Including helicopters - due to death threats.

AP: What's next after Mueller? Lawsuits, investigations and more

[quote] Also heard there was a TON of security for him when he left court yesterday - Including helicopters - due to death threats.

He's much more at risk from the looney left than anyone on the right.

It’s so obvious the American media leans right - even if they’re thought to be centrist or left leaning. The American media COWERS in fear of the right. They did it during Whitewater, the Iraq war and now this. There were significant revelations yesterday but if they’re not thunderously, ringingly presented, it’s not good enough for the American media to counter the false narrative of the American right. Again, Whitewater, Iraq War, this and probably many, many things before that. Almost all of the American media is presented for entertainment purposes - and you Americans don’t even realise it. You think you do, but you really don’t.

[quote] American media COWERS in fear of the right. They did it during Whitewater, the Iraq war

Iraq was 15 years ago. Now it is much different:

"It has been a pattern since President Trump was inaugurated well over a year ago. Coverage of the White House on the “Big Three” broadcast networks — ABC, CBS and NBC — remains 91 percent negative, according to a new study by the Media Research Center, which has been tracking the phenomenon since Mr. Trump hit the campaign trail in 2016.

It was over 90 percent hostile then — and remains so now. The trend is unprecedented, according to the analysis."

R472 I don't dispute your comments, because the news media is owned by multinational, for profit corporate entities. But for that very reason, I also believe that the media is governed mostly by profits, ratings, ad revenue. So demonizing someone and then piling on, or pandering to someone, etc. anything that gets they the $$$. This wasn't always the case.When TV news was in its infancy there were rules governing how much time had to be allotted to public service. The News was not a profit center. It was considered part of doing things "for the public good." But that all changed. We might look at the movie Network as some quaint satire but when that movie came out, it was controversial and it spoke a lot of truth.

I think the Beto phenom is an interesting case. Beto got attention for running against Ted Cruz. But IMO the hype attending him after he lost that campaign, and the media actually feeding the push for him to run for POTUS, and now....*crickets...* They are looking for their next new thing. They don't really have much mileage left on the Clinton train. The Obamas are now carefully managed disciplined celebrities. So who's next? The Trump kids? They don't have the staying power.

Want to just add that too often the Democrats and their Spinners, are not ready. They are not present and accessible, not nurturing their relationships. We hate Rudy and Lindsey, but they are always ready to be quoted and they are usually very colorful. They get attention. So they get a lot of play.Who do the Democrats have that is comparable. Yes there is definitely a media bias in favor of the Right. But we don't do enough to push back.

[quote] He acted like someone who's had a stroke, or someone in the very earliest stages of Alzheimer's. ... I think he was very aware of it and that's why he decided not to testify, and let the report be his testimony.

This may be true, but if this is the case, wouldn't Mueller or one of his associates have found a way to let Congress know that he wasn't up to the task of testifying, to spare everyone the embarrassment?

Forget Youtube psychics except Soulight Hypnotherapy. She was the only one who predicted yesterday exactly on the 22nd. She can be negative/buzzkill, but these are negative times and she is very accurate. Enough of the popcorn and dancing in the street, wishful thinking bullshit.

Maybe not R476. Maybe he felt like he was up to it. Hard to say. Another thing. With the ambient noise in that crowded room, hearing could have been a problem. I noticed on two occasions, that when a member of the committee started speaking, Mueller was searching the dais to see who was talking to him, because he was unsure of the direction the speaker's voice was coming from. was coming Some assholes in the media said he seemed befuddled but it was a hearing issue. LIf he does have some health issues, it makes what Barr attempted to do and continues to do even more reprehensible. That fuker lied and distorted Mueller's report, probably believing there would be no push back. What an unprincipled, cut throat, snake he is.

I don't think Nancy Pelosi thought this was going to give the country their OMG! We must impeach moment. She knew, Nadler knew, all of them knew the kind of "performance" that Mueller would give. After all, they had been in negotiations for a long time now. Do you think they were surprised that he wasn't as sharp or dynamic as used to be? Of course not. What they did was bring to light the undisputed facts of Mueller's report. Disregarding Mueller's delivery, we all know for a fact, that had Trump not been protected by the Presidency, he would be facing charges right now for obstruction of justice. We also know for a fact, that the Russians interfered in our elections and are still doing it and that there is still an ongoing investigation into collusion with the Russians. We know for a fact that Trump, Trump Jr., and others had contact with the Russians over 100 times. We know that Trump is compromised. And the people in his circle are compromised. We know that Trump hoped to build a Trump Hotel in Russia. We know that McGahn is up to his neck in this. These are the things that are important and should horrify all of us. Not that Mueller is old.

A really, really big W/W for you, r479.

R479: Yet, she is not impeaching. Will have a look-see after August vacation.

R481, to all those who are determined to go for " #Impeachment Now!" I say that with 94 members willing to do it, we still need to get to 218. Several members of COngress spoke up this week to say if the House wants to impeach Nancy will not stop it. Will. Not. So the people who are hell bent for impeachment need to get to work and start making calls to House members. Go for it. Nancy's old school. She counts votes.

[quote] We know for a fact that Trump, Trump Jr., and others had contact with the Russians over 100 times. We know that Trump is compromised. And the people in his circle are compromised. We know that Trump hoped to build a Trump Hotel in Russia. We know that McGahn is up to his neck in this. These are the things that are important and should horrify all of us. Not that Mueller is old.

Yes, Mueller's report is very damning, and these things are horrifying. But with cable news making such a big deal about the fact that Mueller would be testifying and making Mueller out to be an almost god-like figure, of course this would become political theater, and everyone would be judging the "performance." The average American, unfortunately, doesn't know or care who Don McGahn is. For the average TV viewer who hasn't been paying close attention to every fine detail of the case, and who tuned in to watch Mueller testify, of course their first reaction is going to be "THIS is Bob Mueller? This feeble, confused man is the guy who was in charge of this investigation?" Mueller seemed much sharper by the afternoon session, but I suspect that most viewers had already tuned out by then.

Ok all you “Mueller is playing three dimensional chess” guys - what do we do now?

Did Mueller ever get Trump’s tax returns or other financial,info? What happens to that now?

They put it all out there......

Remember?

Some of the comments here are either trolls looking to spur division, OR they lack any critical thinking skills and want everything done and handed to them with a bow on it.

Really people ?

Mueller stated the Russians attacked our elections, they are STILL ACTIVELY DOING SO...Trump lied, Trump conspired, Trump is compromised, Trump is a criminal, Trump is a threat to democracy...ITS UP TO CONGRESS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO DEAL WITH IT...HIS HANDS WERE TIED.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Mueller did his job... If your unhappy, call your representatives and DEMAND Trumps removal and that they DO THEIR JOBS.

R488!!!

He's not a public figure and had zero desire to be one. Trump has turned this government in a reality show. Permanent cameras in the Oval Office, He is on camera EVERYDAY. People were expecting a professional polished performer and that's not who he is.

[quote] We hate Rudy and Lindsey, but they are always ready to be quoted and they are usually very colorful.

There's some truth to this -- Trump would appear (or at least call in) to media programs all the time during the 2016 election season. Media bookers said it was difficult to get any of the other Republican primary candidates to appear -- and it was nigh impossible to get Hillary once the campaign started. You can't control the narrative if you don't show up.

You seem unhinged R488.

Were you one of the heavy posters in the 112-part Meuller threads? This would be a good time to take a break from the Mueller activism before it really affects your mental health.

‪How about a quickly produced HBO or Netflix or Amazon movie docudrama depicting the Mueller investigative process and frustration? Not just reading the report but showing the context.‬ A lot of points could be made with more mass appeal if some well known actors were involved.

CNN: Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith of Mississippi on Wednesday blocked the advancement of a trio of bills aimed at strengthening election security just hours after former special counsel Robert Mueller warned of the continued threat that foreign powers interfering in US elections.

Two of those bills would require campaigns to report to federal authorities any attempts by foreign entities to interfere in US elections, and the third is aimed at protecting from hackers the personal accounts and devices of senators and some staffers.

Hyde-Smith objected to Democrats' request for unanimous consent to advance the bills.

What this all confirms... Trump lies, breaks the law, is corrupt and self-serving... and 46% of the country know this and don't care. Nothing that Mueller could have said would change that. America, we've got a problem. He absolutely has to be beat in 2020. And that means the Electoral College - even if Mueller would have been dramatically effective with a smoking gun, Trump would have taken the gun, shot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, and then gone to play golf. MAGA folks would have applauded his "leadership."

Trump will not win the popular vote. But he may win the Electoral College. Impeaching him is the right thing to do, but it will not hurt his Electoral College chances, and might even help. I am hoping there is a Democratic brain trust that is figuring this out. Hoping.

You mean Pelosi? Isn’t that what she’s saying?

I've recently developed this theory. Trump gets away with things political figures don't get away with because no one, including his supporters really thinks of him as a politician. Some of them really don't even look at him as a "traditional" real President. The notion of Trump having an inauguration or a parade, etc. all of it is sort of the Reality TV version of "Who Gets to be President!" It's like an overly long season of The Apprentice. They don't judge him by the same standards they would judge a "real" politician. This is all bullshit to them. It's the Deplorable-Ignorant POS-"never voted before" version of a President. He doesn't understand how government works? Good. Neither do they. They do not expect him to be or do any of the things they might require from a President. So he gets a pass. We need to stop talking Impeachment and start telling the Deplorables he is getting low ratings and we're cancelling his show.

R485 he wouldn't answer that but Schiff said on Rachel Maddow's show that he didn't think so.

The House is now after Trump's financial records and they're waiting on the courts to decide that. Pelosi said yesterday that's the area where they're going now to see if and to what extent Trump is compromised financially by the Russians

This is the person the Republicans defend over Mueller...

[quote] You seem unhinged [R488].

Not really. His overuse of all caps is annoying, but everything he said was true. Mueller has given Congress all the evidence they need to remove Trump from office; it's now their job to do something with it.

[quote] I've recently developed this theory.

Gee, you're quick, r497. The rest of the sane world has only been floating that theory since 2016.

r492....and you seem like an unpatriotic shit who wants everyone else to clean up their mess.

Well, yeah, I know that, R501. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that when Reagan ran for President and he won, he became President. So even though I hated him, he was President Reagan. Trump is not. He did not "become" the President. He is still the Apprentice Guy from TV. That's how I account for the fact that his fans let him get away with things no political figure could get away with. The Media and the Democrats still treat him like he's PResident, and he isn't. He needs to be treated like a failed TV celebrity. That's all I meant. Whatever.

I suspect that if this had been a slam-dunk kind of situation where Mueller spilled it all in a compelling way and got the public riled up, Pelosi would have agreed to start impeachment hearings soon. Since it was a mixed bag with some good information but a stammering witness, and because the media immediately went with "this is bad for the Dems," she's now wanting to wait for the taxes.

And honestly it doesn't seem like there are a lot of Representatives who have said they're pro impeachment. It's only been a few so far. Might as well wait, let the summer pass and more evidence come forward, get more Representatives and their constituents on board, then make sure the hearing is still going when we hit Election Day.

It used to frustrate me that Democrats could never seem to control the narrative. Then I spoke to someone in democratic politics about it. And it comes down to two things. Thing one is party discipline. The Democrats will never be as disciplined as Republicans. Thing two is diversity. Republicans, because they are not as diverse, can crack the whip and keep thier members in line. So it makes crafting a message and staying on message much easier.

I believe the strength of the Democratic party is the diversity, but that diversity also holds us back from developing a single strategy that appeals to multiple groups within the party. You can see it in political threads on DL. There are many different ways to be a democrat, even when we are not that far apart on certain issues. Now take that to a larger stage and it really is like herding cats.

[quote] They don't judge him by the same standards they would judge a "real" politician. This is all bullshit to them. It's the Deplorable-Ignorant POS-"never voted before" version of a President. He doesn't understand how government works? Good. Neither do they.

This is true, but it's been true for a long time, even before Trump entered the picture. In 2008, the deplorables loved Sarah Palin, even though she was dumb as shit and totally unfit to be vice president. They knew she was dumb and unqualified, and that's what they loved about her! They wanted to see "one of their own" in the White House. Who cares if she doesn't know what the "Bush doctrine" is? She hunts and fishes, and that's good enough for them. Same thing with Trump. You're not going to change the deplorables' minds by making rational arguments about how Trump is destroying the foundations of our democracy. The deplorables don't care. The only thing we can do is outnumber and overpower them at the polls, like we did in 2008 and 2012 by electing Obama or in the 2018 midterms. But even that won't make them go away. It will just make them even more angry and irrational.

Voting is great, but in case you missed it. Mueller has said that Russians are still tampering with the voting systems.

There's no safeguards in place to prevent the 2020 election from being tampered with.

the deplorables (who have turned out to be a majority of repub voters) are OBSESSED with the idea of "winning back the culture". They HATE that they are no longer socially allowed to say bigoted things they once could say freely. So Trump is their hero. Even if he is basically a trust fund baby who's lying about everything, he says what they want to. They like that he savages women about their looks, they love that he says racist things all the time without consequence except angry liberals berating him and they love that he props up christianity over other religions but especially against atheists. They love entertainment but they hate how hollywood is more liberal leaning. It's pretty much about white, hetero xtian identity politics with them.

It bothers them that the rest of the country is moving further and further from the culture in which they grew up. They disparage people who aren't bigoted as "elitists" or because we live in or near big cities. Of course none of that makes sense as the vast majority of people of all political views aren't wealthy or well connected. Somehow education and acceptance of others is now being "elitist". So when I hear people like Biden talking about "winning back the regular man" I shake my head. Most Democrats ARE regular people. The people they're trying to win back chose white hetero xtian identity politics over all else. It's the voters who chose to stay home in 2016 that Democrats should be trying to bring out again

[quote] r473: Coverage of the White House on the “Big Three” broadcast networks — ABC, CBS and NBC — remains 91 percent negative, ... The trend is unprecedented, ...

I think it’s truthful coverage about a very negative situation.

We can see with our own eyes that the President is a habitual liar. This isn’t spin, it is boldface lies. Such behavior should be impeachable in its own right. This is unprecedented, so honest coverage will be unprecedented. We needn’t get into the weeds about all this, the man is unfit for the most basic reasons.

Read today that 93 House Dems are for impeachment proceedings, which I hope will increase in the fall once the House is back in session and the lazy summer reporting makes way for the more in-depth stuff they do when it's not vacation season.

I think a good part of why the mainstream media always falls for the narrative that the Democrats are flopping is because it bothers them that they are seen by right wingers as biased against repubs. That is a false narrative of course. The reason why there has been so much negative coverage about repubs for so many years is because of repub negative policies and the fallout from that. Repub voters don't want to hear that though.

Since most white people vote repub and most of the mainstream media is white, the mainstream media is still desperate to chase after them. It drives them nuts that most white Americans refuse to accept their coverage of politics. They don't seem to understand that white baby boomers and at least half of white gen x are not going to change. There's no point in chasing after them by throwing them a sympathetic bone here and there.

What R508 said. And, for those that are defending Mueller, and his sole responsibility was to answer questions related to the investigation- that is all fine and good. BUT, he of all people is aware that Trump is a criminal and he has begun to unravel the fabric of our democracy one thread at a time. Thus, as a "great American", Mueller had a peripheral responsibility to speak the REAL TRUTH yesterday, to all of us. And, it would have gone incredibly far. He had the seat, and he had the power of exposition. Rather, he sat encumbered by his own inadequacies to step the fuck up and change the climate of the country. He is human, after all- and he should have acted like a concerned person for this country. That would have blown this out of the water. The fact is, he is in cahoots with Barr and probably approaching profound issues with dementia. But, yesterday, he had the power to speak FOR the investigation, and more importantly, FOR the democracy of this country. But, he did not. So, he can go fuck himself.

[quote]Read today that 93 House Dems are for impeachment proceedings, which I hope will increase in the fall once the House is back in session and the lazy summer reporting makes way for the more in-depth stuff they do when it's not vacation season.

The 2020 campaign will start dominating the news cycle and politician attention in the fall. Dems -- especially those who won House seats in Trump districts in 2019 -- will have even less of an incentive to pursue impeachment then. Impeachment is dead.

Once again...Did anyone ask him why he didn't indict Jr for the Trump Tower meeting and Hope Hicks for trying to cover it up on Air Force One?

Why was Jr untouched which only embolden s him?

[quote] R508: the deplorables ... HATE that they are no longer socially allowed to say bigoted things they once could say freely. So Trump is their hero.

My bro in law literally said this. Shouted it, actually. I wasn’t raised that way and it disgusts me. I see that Fox and Trump gives him/them permission to unleash their inner bigot.

R514 the DOJ letter wouldn't let him

so now today the mainstream media has the chance to really go after McConnell for not supporting the bipartisan Senate bill on election interference. They've mentioned it but will they just stop there? He should be made THE face of allowing Russian interference at this point. Make him infamous. I bet they won't

I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it

R514: Also, Jr is under investigation.

R515 and they use the grievance of not being socially allowed to say bigoted things as a way to say white people are the ones being attacked, everyone is racist against whites and white men in particular are victims. They get more offended at being called racist or sexist than when they see/hear a minority or woman being attacked. They are just absolutely sociopaths and nutjobs . Democrats shouldn't waste time trying to appeal to them. There are millions of eligible voters who don't normally vote. Get them animated

CNN:

2020 election security: GOP senators block bills hours after Mueller warns of Russian interference

cunt^^

Honestly, R512, I think McGahn is the one who the deporables would believe if he appeared before the House under oath and told all he knows. He knows how crooked Trump is. He knows about all the lies and corruption. He knows EVERYTHING. If Mueller was the lock, McGahn is the key. But, there's no way McGahn will cooperate. So, I hope he rots from the inside. I really don't know why so many are willing to protect this monster.

The WH will exert "executive privilege" over McGahn so he won't say most of the juiciest bits.

The House really should call Lewandowski and Christie though. Executive privilege wouldn't apply to the misdeeds during the campaign

The thing that upsets me about the media is that they overly focused on Russia. And while they were focused on Russia, they didn't give enough attention to all the other shit he was doing. This administration is rotten to the core, but Russia is only one piece of the pie. Our attention was diverted to Russia, while the administration was stacking the courts, and violating ethics laws, and a ton of other shit. I want the news to be fair and balances, which means report on all the shit the administration is doing not just his tweets and the other nonsense.

And I'm one of those people who don't necessarily believe that all of Trump's voters are deplorable racists. I think some of them are just republican and will not ever vote for a democrat. I think some of them bought into this bullshit that he's a great businessman. And if we're being really honest, some democrats were just not going to vote for Hillary, especially in key states, which allowed him to take certain swing states. A lot of them are deplorable, but not all of them.

R473, enough with the joke links from The Washington Times. What a fucking jjoke.

R474, and as predicted/cautioned in Broadcast News in the late ‘80s.

the repub party has become all about "owning the libs" in addition to the white hetero male xtian identity politics. They have been collectively masturbating and orgasming on the Fox "News" coverage of the Mueller testimony. They spent the last few days bashing Mueller but are now bashing Democrats and saying Democrats are "destroying Mueller". They now suddenly don't hate Mueller because he didn't flat out call Trump a criminal who should be impeached. That's how low the bar is now

and they are convinced Trump didn't obstruct justice. They haven't read the Mueller report and have no desire to do so. They just watch Fox and hear about the conspiracy theories and all that bullshit. They take the word of Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham, Dobbs, Pirro etc as 100% accurate because it confirms their bias. Facts be damned. Anything they hear contrary to Fox and Trump, they do not believe

and they think everyone else is delusional and brainwashed

The guy on The View today was actually saying it was a failure for the democrats because there weren't any big dramatic movie like moments. What the fuck were people expecting, the Jack Nicolson/Tom Cruise showdown in A Few Good Men? It's like, who cares about the information, it just wasn't entertaining.

The problem is that people have become so accustomed to sensational journalism and all the over the top dramatics on these news shows now that they have no interest or patience for anything else.

[quote]They spent the last few days bashing Mueller but are now bashing Democrats and saying Democrats are "destroying Mueller".

Democrats are also saying that it was unseemly to put an infirm old man on the hot seat and embarrass him and his family like that. They could have brought in anyone to read the report aloud, including the other guy at the table who was part of the team.

[quote]I think McGahn is the one who the deporables would believe if he appeared before the House under oath and told all he knows.

The problem with the McGahn testimony is there is no evidence to show that what McGahn claims or what he wrote to himself via memo is true. To bring down a president, you better have audio, video or documents in the President's handwriting. Otherwise, there's no point.

I think once McGahn testified he waived executive privilege. I think he met with Mueller's people and testified before the grand jury and there is no Executive Privilege for him. They are throwing that around but it may not apply. Any lawyers here who understand political shit?

I think what I have heard most people talk is the mental issues that Mueller has and how long he has had them. It has only been 4 month since the release of the report and he has apparently has been having problems for a while. People wonder if this was indeed Mueller's report or a report written by the members of his committee who all feel were anti-Trump all along. I think it brings more problems for the citizens than answers. Also, with the Democratic party insisting he testify when it appears he really didn't want to it was not a win for them...

[quote] who all feel were anti-Trump all along.

Nice try.

Remember when we thought he was handing out those slap-on-the-wrist plea deals to guys like Flynn and Papadopolous ? And we thought those guys must have given Mueller great information on Trump, Russia, Donald Jr and Jared?

Ha. Joke was on us. He was giving them a slap on the wrist because he just wanted to let them off easy.

Seriously, did that come up yesterday? Did anyone ask Mueller about the ancillary indictments?

R528 it is a problem but it's one the Democrats should understand. They don't have to lie. They have the truth but they need to "create moments". They need stuff that will go viral. That is why SOME people who haven't been following this story closely thought Ratcliffe was effective yesterday because of his screaming and histrionics when questioning Mueller.

Comey for all his faults is an effective presenter. Mueller is not and is too old school. It says something about our society at large that we care more about style than substance but we can't change that so Democrats should adapt.

I've never seen anyone testify like that before congress and I'm "old school." I remember all the way back to the Bobby Baker hearings.

there's no question Mueller was a reluctant testifier and slow/doddering and held back almost all opinions but he did get out the crux of the report. He just wouldn't elaborate what should happen next.

the mainstream media is too quick to go with style for their initial reactions. They're pulling it back today but some of the damage is done. I want to see a new poll next week about impeachment. I do think some minds were changed

r508, Fantastic post, YOU GET IT!!!!!

Mueller directed the investigation. He had something like, 22 attorneys working for him at one point, and then there were investigators and specialists forensic accountants, and god knows what else. It was an operation. A big one.

Anyone who believes he should have sat there in the middle of the night, and wrote that 450+ page report all by himself is delusional. The report was divided up, and summaries were also provided for the various sections, and his team wrote the fucking report, under his supervision, which was probably reviewed and discussed in minutiae multiple times.

The way these things go is that various attorneys were working on various threads of the investigation. They probably met weekly or even more often to compare notes and discuss avenues of investigation. They had staff. a lot of people who wrote reports, and summaries at various times. Interim reports, etc.

All this shit was collated and reviewed, and re-written, and meticulously gone over. Eventually the final report evolved. And you better believe that every syllable, every punctuation point, every citation was carefully reviewed.

In addition there were charging documents and sentencing documents written up. Everything had to be consistent and legally correct. Now if anyone believes Robert Mueller should have literally done everything himself, they're nuts. I watched segments of his presentation last night and he was very familiar with the material and he did answer some questions in more detail . He followed along pretty well. He had his binder and he had the citations and knew what was going on.

I'm sorry the media was deprived of their spectacle and their drama. But Mueller did exactly what I expected him to do. He made it very clear when he held his briefing a few months ago he was not going to go beyond the report and felt it was sufficient. Then a few days ago Barr made sure he was going to limit Mueller at the hearing.

IMO, and this is just me, I think for whatever reason, his health most likely, I think Mueller was too acquiescent towards BArr, too reluctant to push back, and Mueller's staff was much more aggressive. I suspect we are going to be hearing from some of those people soon.

They adore Mueller and respect him, and their work and their leader is getting shit on by Barr most of all. They worked too hard and know too much to permit that. Some of the Mueller team was there yesterday, and I t hought a couple of them wanted to kick some of those GOP members asses, based on the way they were shaking their heads and the expressions on their faces.

Places like Democratic Underground are acting like this was a home run yesterday and a huge game changer, while still licking Mueller's ass big time and whitewashing him as this complete paragon of American virtue (which is getting old, just look up his Iraq WMD defense).

R538 Were enough changed? That is the biggest question. People have been hanging all their hopes on the Mueller train for almost two years now, and it hasn't gotten very far yet.

r512, He's also a REPUBLICAN, don't ever forget that.

Look. I have a huge problem with Biden and other Dems who feel like we need the "white working class, regular guys who feel ignored." That's a crock of bullshit. It is a very transparent way of saying the Democratic Party is too far Left and needs to be less progressive. We have a lock on 200 Electoral votes. Maybe 210. We need to find 70 more. We lost by 77744.So I don't think we need to try to be something we are not, and make a dramatic Right turn to win. We have a messaging problem. We just need to have an outstanding Get Out the Vote operation, and we need to start selling out policies in bites people can understand. We also have to be very aggressive about making the case for the failures of the GOP Aggresive Offense not a fucking Defense.

r527, They are the "Good little Nazis" of this era.

so Trump just had another WTF call-in session on Hannity, doubling down on how this investigation was "treason" and "a witch hunt" and how it should never happen again. He also called the Russian hackers "bloggers" who had "nothing to do with the campaign".

so nothing on the repub side has changed.

4 more Democratic House members are in favor of impeachment now after the hearing yesterday

omg to my jubilant surprise, #MoscowMitch is trending on twitter!!!! THIS IS GREAT NEWS. Maybe he can finally be brought down or at least severely damaged. More and more people will learn who he is since he's a hashtag.

[quote]so nothing on the repub side has changed.

Did you expect it to?

Audio and video evidence could surface, hell, Drumpf himself could stand there and say he colluded and that it included changing ballots, and Rethugs would continue to support him.

R547 no I didn't but it's still crazy to see that outright lying when you saw and heard the truth just the day before

R540, First of all, great post. Second, I agree. If someone I worked for and respected was getting crapped on the way Mueller has been, you better believe that I would be a very cooperative witness if called upon to testify about something we all worked hard on for 2 years. I would not only want to defend my boss, but my work as well.

[quote]#MoscowMitch is trending on twitter!!!! THIS IS GREAT NEWS. Maybe he can finally be brought down or at least severely damaged.

He'll make and sell a t-shirt with the tag and laugh the whole time while doing it. Needless to say, it will not bring him down.

R497 This is spot on, mixed with a blatantly explicit appeal to white nativism. I think Mayor Pete's phrase is deceptively effective for all the reasons you describe: "It's time to turn the channel."

If Dump was on video getting spit roasted by Putin and Kim Jong Un, Fox news/right wing media would find a way to spin it in Dump's favor

𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐢𝐧.

The 7 1/2 hours of hearings, from 8:15 a.m. to 3:45 p.m. ET, drew an average of just under 13 million viewers (12.98 million) on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox News and MSNBC.

The 13 million viewers falls short of some other recent televised hearings: Former Donald Trump lawyer Michael Cohen, for instance, drew about 16 million viewers when he testified before Congress in February. Ex-FBI Director James Comey's 2017 appearance before Congress attracted 19.5 million and Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court confirmation hearing averaged 20 million viewers.

Fox News led the field for Wednesday's coverage with an average of just over 3 million viewers for the hearings. MSNBC averaged 2.41 million; followed by ABC, 2.12 million; NBC, 1.99 million; CBS, 1.91 million; and CNN, 1.52 million.

CBS is currently blacked out in about 10 million homes because of a carriage dispute with AT&T that affects DirecTV and U-verse customers. (The network led broadcast coverage for the Cohen hearing with a little over 3 million viewers.)

NBC had the most viewers in the key news demographic of adults 25-54, with 536,000 viewers. ABC had 489,000; Fox News 441,000; CBS 406,000; CNN 365,000; and MSNBC 347,000.

Muller essentially admitted Trump lied under oath in his written testimony.

There was a scene in Apocalypse Now, the Vietnam era movie, where Martin Sheen goes on this journey into the Heart of Darkness, on a mission to kill a renegade General. Anyway, it's night time and he encounters a huge fire right complete with rockets and explosions, and it's absolute chaos, and he sees this cluster of GIs ducking behind some kind of barricade, and crawls towards them and he asks, breathlessly:" Who's in charge? Do you know who's in charge?" And one of the guys, stoned out of his mind, looks at him calmly, and chuckles, and says, "Yeah." And that's it. That's the scene. Well, I feel like right now, there are no grown ups around and no one is in charge.

R555 here I meant " ...he encounters a huge fire fight"

[quote]So I don't think we need to try to be something we are not, and make a dramatic Right turn to win.

Well that's a nice idea but you'd never confuse Hillary Clinton's campaign with the Squad's Facebook page... and she lost the Electoral College.

No one is proposing a hard to turn the right... but a hard veer from the center... have a think.

People who get all upset and scared that we're veering too far Left forget the governing process. We have to pass legislation to do all the things people like Elizabeth Warren and the others are proposing. In other words,Congress has to act. And Congress will always block or put the brakes on anything they think is too extreme. Don't buy the media hype.

Like with Healthcare. There will always be private insurance. Private insurance and choice will not be taken away. Period. People who peddle that narrative are trying to scare us. Right now in the UK you can buy private insurance to supplement and enhance your NHS. Right now here in America, Medicare sub contracts with Private insurers like Blue Cross, and Aetna. What Medicare does is guarantee a basic menu of services, and then people can supplement that. Any health insurance reforms will very likely be built on those models.

And as I said earlier, we have a solid lock on 200 -210 Electoral votes. Guaranteed. We need 60-70 more. The electoral college was tipped by 77,744 votes. So selling our message more effectively, and getting our people out to vote, and right now, insisting on measures to stop fraud and suppression in the state election operations is our task. Not rushing to the Right. In fact, If we focus on a few states that are "borderline" and subject to fraud, and fight for reform in those, we can pull this Presidential election off. We can win.

When I suggest targeting specific states in fighting for election reform I mean that we should waste resources in places like Alabama or Mississippi that are solidly Red. Yes there are congressional seats and Senate races worth fighting for, but we will not turn them Blue for the Presidential election. But instates that are already leaning Blue or too close to call, we need to fight to insure there are no cyber attacks, fraud or suppression. and that fight should have already started.

It would be helpful if people didn't take the bait, which generates anger and confusion. Know when you're talking to a human and when you're talking to someone who is working at a troll farm or a bot. Turns out that a lot of race stuff on social media and message boards gets (think the little Mermaid controversy and all the shit that's thrown at Meghan Markle) enhanced by trolls farms and bots. Other countries have figured out that the way to undo us is through our country's long standing racial issues. You keep racial issues in the forefront and it benefits Trump.

I'm not saying it's all troll farms and bots, but they do their part by throwing lighter fluid on an already burning fire. All of you on Facebook and Twitter and even on here need to look for the signs and need to make sure that you aren't falling into a trap.

I firmly believe Mueller's reluctance to testify and eventual sad performance of his testimony were a direct effect of his fear of being shunned by many (if not most) of the Republican friends and associates he still has. They all know exactly what Trump is, but they're perfectly willing to keep him in power if it'll save them money on taxes and enrich them even more in some ways.

Mueller’s senility routine is all part of his master plan to ensnare Trump. He’s closing in on him. Everyone needs to believe.

Bloomberg:

House Democrats to Ask Court for Mueller Grand Jury Information

Politico:

Trump's suit to block Democrats from getting his New York tax returns will be handed off to another judge

Washington Post:

Democrats struggle to figure out next move against Trump after Mueller hearing falls flat

NYT:

Mueller’s Skepticism of Trump’s Truthfulness Heightens Impeachment Debate

Mueller skeptical of Trump's truthfulness????Really???Skeptical? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote]omg to my jubilant surprise, #MoscowMitch is trending on twitter!!!!

Sanctioned Russian Oligarch's Company to Invest Millions in New Aluminum Plant in Mitch McConnell's State #MoscowMitch

Nadler is announcing that his Committee is pursuing an Impeachment investigation now.

100 Democrats now support impeachment inquiry.

It is truly amazing to me that 40% of the country chooses to believe a malignant pathological liar over Mueller and his findings. It really is the bizarro world. Pour me a glass of sand please.

Jerry's and Adam's committees took testimony and now they are moving on it. It is not good theater.

It is good governance.

Blame the fucking media too. Because it's not just the Fox viewers who live in some parallel universe. Ask yourself, with a 24/7 news cycle and all the chatter why are Americans among the most poorly informed voters in the fucking world? All the false equivalencies, the "balanced" reports, the constant, repetitive Trump coverage. I mean people watched the hearings and thought Ratliffe did a good job? Really? And NUnes? And then we have the weakassed, lame "fact checkers that act as footnotes to print coverage that no one really sees or cares about. There is something deeply wrong with news coverage.

Politico:

Trump knocks Fox News after poll shows him losing to Biden by 10 points

Go Joe! Beat Trump! It is all hat matters.

R573 I watch VICE news every day just to be reminded that "news" is different from commentary and entertainment. It actually takes me all over the world to see and understand things I didn't. BBC too.

R575

Looks good 👍

So many establishment older Dems are convinced Biden is the solution. But they forget. Whoever the nominee is,Warren, Mayor Pete, Harris, etc. will be standing on that stage and campaigning with Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, and that will give them all the legitimacy they need. Of course they think Joe and Barack willsenda potent message, but I think any Democrat ought to be able to beat Trump. Joe & Barack on stage will be like an aging rock band's nostalgia tour.

I remember that scene, r555.

He asks another guy who's in charge and the guy takes a break from shooting randomly and says, "I thought you was in charge!" And goes back to shooting.

Yeah. That's about where we are now. Half of us stoned, the other half confused or crazy and shooting at nothing.

r577, does any of that cash go to campaigns?

R579 Yeah, and nostalgia tours sell out.

Yeah R579 I'm not having an issue with that visual. Let's remind the world what grace and dignity look like.

R571 everyone has their bias and I understand that. The problem is a significant number of people only want to hear things that confirm their biases. Facts generally do not go well for repubs. Repub voters do not want to hear that though so they naturally head on over to Fox "News". Fox is allowed to play off of that and give them an alternate reality. I've learned in the last few years that for some people, if you tell them what they want to hear (in this case, white hetero xtian conservative males are always right), then they'll be willing to accept what you want them to hear.

So Fox interchanges the bigotry their base loves along with the propaganda they want them to adopt and it works.

Almost no repub voters have read the Mueller report and will not. They just sit and listen to what Fox hosts and commentators say (or right wing radio) which completely mischaracterizes the Mueller report. They don't think Trump committed obstruction simply because he wasn't charged. They have no idea about the nuance behind the lack of charge

Mueller was factual of course in his hearing but he did not outright call Trump a criminal who needs to be impeached. Obviously Fox won't play the clips of Val Demings getting damning statements from Mueller or the other damning facts Nadler and Schiff were able to get Mueller to confirm.

They just show clips like Ratcliffe yelling at Mueller (while misleading the public who hasn't read the report and doesn't know about the OLC policy) and that's effective.

Just like the theatrics of Kavanaugh flipped his confirmation hearing in his hearing. I can't tell you the number of repub voters I heard who were trashing Christine Blaisey Ford (sp?) because they didn't like her demeanor during her testimony. They didn't like the nervous laughter, as in they thought she wasn't serious. They didn't like that she said she told "beach friends" about Kavanaugh as that sounded child-like to them. They didn't like her quirky personality. Kavanaugh showed "passion" while throwing his tantrum in their eyes. So they come in with a bias and look for any minor thing to confirm it. They go almost entirely off of the presentation and performance aspect rather than substance.

and then you have a lot of other Americans who just don't fucking give a shit even though they're much more liberal and not bad people. There are MILLIONS of Americans who probably don't know who Mueller is or they've heard his name but can't tell you why he's so important. Since he speaks with nuance, they don't see this whole thing as a big deal

So about 1/3 of the country is the only part fully paying attention and getting real news.

Conservative radio was all over Mueller about his not answering questions like he taking the fifth. He couldn't answer questions that were still in investigation. He was really limited from the AG office also.

But Nadler is moving forward on his inquiry by requesting Mueller's Grand Jury transcripts.

I wonder if Nadler had planned this all along or if he is reacting to Chris Matthews giving him the business last night on his show. He really was questioning how slowly Democrats have moved. Nadler is now ramping it up

I agree R573. It's frustrating that , even on CNN and MSNBC, they are talking about Mueller's "performance" rather than the all devastating facts that he was able to confirm about Trump. Mueller confirmed that Trump is a liar and that he appears to be guilty of obstruction. As well as Trump Jr. And that Russia is still interfering in our election. That is what I expected from those programs. Not to dwell on and on about Mueller not being as dynamic as he once was. I'm not going to criticize the way the Democrats are going about all of this. They are fighting an uphill battle. I am glad that they are not giving up.

And we're off......

should we start a new thread? The treasons thread hasn't finished yet and it's still subscriber only

And let me add my two cents. Open the treason threads!! Victory or death! The British are coming! Peace through strength!

Geez, just open them already.

YES, new thread. But make is something like a POST MUELLER TESTIMONY THREAD 2

Something that can carry us up to the IMPEACHMENT threads.

The gates have been opened! C'mon everybody, post something clever and insightful as quickly as you can!!

I'm tired and not in a clever mood. If you give me something clever I can make a thread now. If not then someone else will have to make it

actually here someone already made a thread. It's not witty but it works

It'll do.