Game of Thrones - S08E04 - 5/5/2019

Thanks, OP! I'm planning on checking this out on "HBO NOW. Apparently it's released earlier than on "regular HBO"?

Nope r1. It doesn't matter whether you watch on traditional HBO, HBOGo, or HBONow. Everyone gets the episode at basically the same time.

If Cersei is allowed to survive, the fans will RIOT IN THE STREETS!!!

Part of the fun of having a villain you love to hate, is seeing them get their comeuppance. I hope she dies like Ramsay Bolton did, knowing her chickens have come home to roost and she's reaping what she's sown, but going down fighting anyway.

I prefer this version of OP's gif; I'm rooting for Cersei. > :-)

This Euron looks like a tard to me. Isn't he supposed to be dashingly hot? Or is Cersei slumming?

Whatever. the actor doesn't fit the character.

Starting a thread a whole day before the show even airs? That's really pathetic, OP

"Isn't he supposed to be dashingly hot? "

No, he's supposed to be repulsively brutal. The actor on the show is sexy in a slimy way, a dimension that the character did not have in the books, but I suppose it had to be there if they're going to pair him up with Cersei.

Yeah, I'm not digging that 1970s porn stache. I'd rather have Jaime fuck me with his stump. But then again, Cersei will open her legs at the drop of a quarter (or whatever's the KL equivalent).

The longtime fan favorite casting for Euron (before they cast Pilou Asbæk) was Mads Mikkelsen.

Mads Mikkelsen is a great actor. It doesn't hurt that he's (allegedly) hung like a donkey when at full mast.

That smug look, just as she allows hundreds of people into the Red Keep, to ensure that Dany will not burn it down. Ha !

Mads has gone nude

Cersei does look fabulous in her scarlet armour-plated dress. I wonder if she's wearing crotchless panties underneath all that, just in case Jamie gets into the castle somehow.

I mean...yeah

So this is the Hate On Cersei episode. Okay then.

HOT.

The fact that Cersei is pregnant is the only reason I hope nothing happens to her, and that is only because it's Jaime's baby. After all that has happened to him, he deserves to have his progeny survive, even if it is with his own sister.

Three episodes is still more than enough to introduce Brienne's father, write a rich character arc for him, and have him convince his daughter to come back home in an stunning emotional scene. Come through, show!

I suspect this episode will be talky, with everyone gearing up for the big battle. Set your expectation accordingly.

I’m done with this show.

R19 Did you do this video?

r19 Why? Did last week's battle let you down that much and/or were you a big fan of the Night King, Dolorous Edd, Jorah, Lyanna, Melisandre...?

I don't understand these people who wanted the Night King to be around longer. As a plot device he has no where to go. Were the supposed to run around chasing one another and stalking and being stalked this enemy for 5-6 fucking episodes? I always said about this last season that it has to be more than the Night King. I'm glad they took him out early. They gave him 3 full episodes. Tonight they'll deal with the aftermath, and with Bronn, and they'll prepare for Cersei. Oh, and I'm not buying the theory of Missandei getting killed, unless it happens as part of a larger battle, in which case Gray Worm will also die, and there will be no more people of color and D7D are smart enough to know that, even if GRRM isn't.

Missandei is the only black (well, mixed) person aside from Grey Worm. She ain't going nowhere and thank fuck for that because I really like her.

I really like her hairdo.

I think Nathalie Emmanuel is beautiful. I hope she goes on to have a successful career. I really like Jacob Anderson too.

No matter how it ends, I hope that we see a closing shot that is, out there somewhere in a cave, a whole bunch of Dragon eggs are gestating.

[quote]a whole bunch of Dragon eggs are gestating

That would be an epic shot, although there's been some speculation in the fandom that it's the dragons (and the magic that flows from them) that's responsible for the society of this world being stuck basically in the medieval ages for tens of thousands of years. So I'd be fine with dragons being gone for good if there was also an implication that the society might evolve into a more rational way now. But that's the secularist in me talking.

Fucking hell. Episode four has leaked, and the infamous 4chan leaks are true.

Shit.

How is this happening again?!

I posted a link to a clip on the spoilers thread.

I want someone to slap the smug look off Cersi's face. Preferably Arya but I'd be okay with Sansa.

r27 where do i find the spoilers. I want to know.

I posted a link to the leaks for episode 4 on the spoilers thread.

[quote]I’m done with this show.

Most of us are. It's pointless now after they went all SJW.

They can also just kiss the prequels goodbye.

The thing is the books were always the thing and once those ran out D&D aren't good enough story tellers to keep up the quality. If Martin ever finishes the rest of the story only then will we know how all this is really meant to play out. Basically this is fan fiction right now as far as I'm concerned.

Okay 32 and is the thread title Game Of Thrones spoilers?

Only clarifying because searching on this site sucks.

The is the spoilers thread.

Here's the spoiler thread, R35.

*This

"I don't understand these people who wanted the Night King to be around longer."

It's not that any of us wanted him to be around longer, we just wanted his defeat to be more... interesting! Something complex, clever, revelatory, something that rose to the heights this show can reach.

Instead, we got [stab] *POOF*, and that was about it.

Or maybe that should be [stab] *poof* (tinkle tinkle).

Once again, he was created with a stab to the heart by the Children of the Forest. It was the simplest act ever and not at all complex, clever, or revelatory - he was a weapon of war, that's all. How else was he supposed to be undone other than with a stab to the heart? And he was literally made of ice so the alternative to the POOF would be an hour-long shot of him melting on the spot.

I did want him to stick around longer, I did want him to kill more main characters.

This is a threat that has been built up since the pilot, and it was over in a few hours without losing any characters that really hurt. It was just underwhelming.

Same. I was ready for some major character deaths. Jorah dying was okay with me because I always thought he'd die in this episode, protecting Dany. So that was fine.

I was expecting Brienne, Tormund, maybe Gendry. Oh well, there's still three more episodes for that.

I wonder if Sansa will stay in the north when the others go to KL, so is her storyline pretty much over? She'll stay at Winterfell, everyone goes south and most die. Then she ends up queen in the North.

I just can't see her going down to KL. Not even to see Cersei die.

There are screenshots and spoilers from the episode 4 leak all over Twitter. Ugh.

r45 I know, I just looked up "game of thrones s08e4" on Twitter to see if there's a link somewhere and immediately got spoiled with X getting killed. I have no one but myself to blame.

But HBO is working fast and both Twitter and Google have disabled that search term now.

I knew Brienne and Jaime would not die in episode 3 because she hI was watching him watch Tormund, and then looking at the pure joy and affection in his face after he knighted her. Brienne IS Redemption for him. I just hope they do something with her hair and make up before they get it on. I mean. Of course they could always sex her up afterwards, too.

Yaaaawwwwwnnnnnnnnn.

This show ended with its sad boring last episode.

Thanks for the fair warning of spoilers. I'll avoid twitter and instagram for the next 2 or 3 days.

The spoiler thread is full of screenshots from the leaked episode so don't even glance at it. I got spoiled for the second time that way just now. Eugh, me and my curiosity!

Why on earth would you go into the spoiler thread if you don't want to see spoilers?! The purpose of it is literally in the name.

Yes, dear, no need to state the obvious. I was just scanning the page from the corner of my eye to see if someone posted the link where I could watch the episode.

R52 If you want to see any GOT episodes go to

www0 dot 123 hulu dot com

(don't want to post a direct link for obvious reasons)

The expectations of the fans are way too high, this is fan fiction with a limited budget, and everything is very expensive to make. I don't expect much, I just want to enjoy what is left, I know I'm going to miss.

Last episode was very emotional intense, like nothing I ever seen before, I can't understand why so many people hate. I only wish Arya would stabbed the NK in the balls to piss off the incels even more.

Honestly, just stay off of social media on Sundays if you can. The pattern has been the new eps leak Sunday morning or afternoon.

Can't wait for Cersei to kill them all.

[quote] I only wish Arya would stabbed the NK in the balls to piss off the incels even more.

That made me smile, thank you.

While some lame incels are pissed off that a girl killed the Night King, the real complaints about the episode have nothing to do with that.

"I wonder if Sansa will stay in the north when the others go to KL, so is her storyline pretty much over? "

The only reason she'd go south is if she decides that nobody else understands what a narcissistic snake Cersei is, and that Jon and Dany will screw up if she lets them go off on their own.

Because yes, her place is in the North, rebuilding Winterfell and pushing the various Lords of the North back into line, and doing something about hundreds of thousands of corpses in and around Winterfell. The stuff Jon ignores.

Do Cersei and the other KL citizens know that winter is over??? Cersei still seems to be wearing warm attire in that pic.

I don't think killing the Night King made it not winter, we still manage to have winter without needing ice demons.

I sincerely hope Sophie Turner is drunk posting again tonight.

Shouldn't this be trending on Twitter already?

8pm west coast time is when the download should be avail.

Patiently waiting for the episode to start...

Oh, the sweet and always princely Jorah, I'll miss you.

Why is Jon giving a speech? He was useless in the battle. And he's not the prince who was promised.

Shouldn't they be feeding the dragons with those corpses instead?

r67 Exactly, let the actual Azor Ahai (i.e. Arya) give a speech! What, she can't project enough?

Good point, r68. Also, why are they burning them if the Night King is gone? I'm sure Dany would like to ideally bury Jorah somewhere she could visit, for example. Is there a need for mass burning?

The wiggy Dothraki leader is dead as a doornail, thank fuck.

Its their funeral, but personally I wouldn't have burned all those bodies quite that close to the castle.

r70 Mass burials would take too much time, I guess.

Show us Melisandre's old face one last time!

Lord Baratheon of Storm's End!

One last shoutout to Renly, the rightful homosexual king of the Seven Kingdoms.

Burial? With the ground frozen hard?

Is it my screen or is this episode insanely dark and hard to see as well?

Dany and Sansa, once again competing in trying to outdo each other's bitchface.

r76 That makes sense. Hadn't considered the ground might be too hard.

R20 An epic video. 37 minutes of righteous bile!

Where is Arya?

Uh oh. Dany's sitting there looking like the family crazy gene is being activated in her.

Holy shit, she's all alone and can't relate to anyone at all.

Brienne being drunk-goofy is something I never knew I needed.

So who does Dany's hair before the big battles?

She doesn't do those elaborate teased, braided, interwoven do's on her own!

Why is being a virgin a bad thing for Brienne? Who is she otherwise supposed to have fucked in her busy loyal warrior life? I don't really understand why she's upset instead of saying "I had more worthy things to do, Whorehouse Tyrion."

Arya is a fool. Gendry is perfect for her and would allow her to roam free and kill anyone she wants.

Good for Arya. "That's not me" is exactly what she told her father in the first season.

Arya should have said "If I ever wanted to marry anyone, it'd be you". And fucked him.

And Brienne shouldn't be embarrassed about being a virgin, she IS the only person in Westeros who believes in the ideals that all knights espouse but never live up to - honor, decency, defense of the weak, chastity, etc.

"I've never slept with a Knight before" This is the most homoerotic straight sex scene I've ever seen.

Thirty minutes in... where is Cersei?!

r91 Where is she always? Drinking wine and plotting somewhere

Costume change for Dany. I wonder what the red signifies? She's never worn red before, has she?

Dany, wallowing in self-pity . . .

Would J and D getting married solve this problem? Why does she need him to lie?

r95 Because he has the better claim to the throne!

Uh-oh, Dany just dropped an ultimatum in the sickest way possible.

R95, because she’s suddenly weak and pitiful and crazy.

r96 True, but I feel like asking him to hide and lie to the world is still too ridiculous. Marriage would mean they could rule together.

Dorne has a new prince!

r98 Yup. doesn't bode well as the crazy "kill them all" gene runs strong in her family.

I get the feeling Dany does not want to share, R99.

r99 But she would be a queen consort if they married, not The Queen.

White Harbour is such a nice place that hasn't featured all that much in the show or in the books.

Has Sansa had botox? Her frown has the telltale flat middle bit. She's only 23. Seems excessive

Okay, I'm very very worried about this episode. For eight-plus years it's been established that Danerys is intelligent, sees a bigger picture than most, comes up with creative solutions, and isn't a fucking whiner who lets self-pity and jealousy keep her from reaching her goals... and now she's letting jealousy and self-pity stymie her!

This is just bad fucking writing.

I'm enjoying Bronn's little game here.

The show is being driven by people making stupid decisions.

I mean, if she marries Jon because she loves him and it's politically wise, she could absorb his claim to the throne and his popularity with the northerners.

And instead of having think of A SOLUTION THAT'S SO INCREDIBLY SIMPLE A CHILD COULD SEE IT, such as marrying the man she loves, they have her stand there and whine. This sucks.

Bronn never told Tyrion and Jaime that it was Cersei who put him up to this....

So did Sansa just blab to Tyrion about Jon's parentage? Oh dear

He's giving away Ghost? WTF???? He needs him for protection - wtf is this bullshit

And now Tyrion is blabbing to Varys! Oh DEAR

We even have a crying wolf. They are laying it on with a trowel.

Old, intelligent Tyrion is back - that's one very good thing about this episode

Oh NO!!!! The other dragon!

“I worry about her state of mind.” No kidding.

She's got that "Burn them all" face now

Oh for fuck's sake, she couldn't see a ship that was within harpoon range, even though they could see her?

THIS SUCKS!!!

I love how the Greyjoy fleet can sneak up out of nowhere.

Missandrei was wearing a heavy dress with petticoats when she went into the water. Not easy to swim to shore in I imagine

I really miss Cersei's hair. This Rosemary's Baby look ages her horribly.

Yeah, well if all the men wearing fur and leather and armor can swim, so can Missandei.

And Cersei is showing... a week or two after banging Euron, and he thinks he's the father? Idiot.

Oh wait Missandrei is taken - not drowned?

OK. All bets are off. Sansa will be ruler of the 7 kingdoms.

Yes, Missandei has been taken. She is with Cersei, and The Mountain was lurking in the background. Why didn't Dany yell Dracarys when she saw fucking Euron?

"Cocks ARE important, I'm afraid"

"Why didn't Dany yell Dracarys when she saw fucking Euron? "

I presume the dragon harpoons have a longer range than the dragon fire. Although, all the dragon harpoons were on the fronts of the ships and couldn't be pointed backwards, because if they tried to fire backwards the sails would be in the way. Of course there may have been another round of dragon harpoons on the backs of the ships, but flying around behind would have been worth a try.

So Dany might get the Targaryan Tyrant treatment! I wonder if they'll get the king-slayer to do it

Prediction: Brienne is preggo, survives, and raises Jaime's baby to be an ultra warrior

Damn. Brienne and Jaime ... that was heart-breaking....

Jesus, Jaime seduces Brienne then tosses her aside.

Aren't "tempered" and"measured" kinda synonymous?

Agreed, r130. That was rough.

This is ridiculous. The Danerys we've been watching for the last eight years would say "There's got to be a better way than starving the citizenry out", this is the same person who conquered Astrapore, Mereen, and Yunkai with no civilian casualties, and very little bloodshed. She just wouldn't agree to the campaign of starvation, she'd fucking know she has to rule the people afterwards.

This is worse writing than last year, when they made Tyrion stupid for no reason. Now they're making Dany stupid and careles, when she never was before.

I think they're trying to show that Dany is finally losing her mind to the Targaryan Madness Curse, but yes, the writing could be better

This show is a soap opera now. The kind of soap opera where people do things for no reason just to keep the drama going.

Dany's thinking "Dracarys the ALLLLL"

Damn.

I'm sad about the dragon

I'd like to "dracarys" the writers at this point.

[Quote]I love how the Greyjoy fleet can sneak up out of nowhere.

Yes, the most overpowered character on the show is one no one gives a fuck about it. Euron Greyjoy can do anything, the amount of times his fleet has appeared out of nowhere to destroy someone has been numerous in his short tenure on the show.

Anyone else watching the after show explanation?

I'm sad. Missandei was lovely. Dany has become so combative. Ever since she arrived in Westeros she seems to not trust anyone. She's showing a totally different side of her personality than she showed in Mereen. There she was dealing with different types of people from the people of Westeros. This is not going to end well....but never mind. The Hound and Arya are on their way... What happens to Jaime? He's riding to his death. I believe he loves Brienne but he was reflecting back on his life and realized that no matter how different he is now, he did horrible things all in Cersei's name. So I can see him going back to kill her now, after what he said. I don't think he left Brienne because he loves Cersei. I think he felt unworthy of Brienne because he can't escape his past, so he's going back to deal with it.

Poor Missandei! But at least it was a quick death.

So Missandei bit the dust - how did she die, please spill for those of us not watching (the ep is over and no one should be in this thread who doesn't want spoilers).

Who else is gone - did one of the dragons get hit?

R145 - go to the spoilers thread.

[quote] The Danerys we've been watching for the last eight years would say "There's got to be a better way than starving the citizenry out", this is the same person who conquered Astrapore, Mereen, and Yunkai with no civilian casualties, and very little bloodshed.

i think the point is that this isn;t the same Dany we saw back in Essos. She's lost two of her three "children," which has embittered her enormously; she is deeply insecure (for the first time iin her life) about her fitness to rule since she is technically no linger the direct heir to the Targaryen throne.

This isn't bad writing at all; you just don't like the way the plot has moved because you had different expectations for it.

Everything is happening so quickly. Dani should have listen. When did Trrion dye his hair ?

Just realized Tyrion talked to Cersei about her baby with Jaime. And Euron was there to hear every word.....

They were stupid to kill Missandei - she's a valuable prisoner. They could have forced Dany's hand using Missandei's life as a bargaining chip

Euron killed a dragon and captured Missandei when the forces head south to Dragonstone. Because of course.

Then Cersei has her executed in front of Dany to end the episode

I need to see Cersei screaming her lungs out ASAP!

Can you post a link r146, to the spoilers thread, thanks.

Dany is so up her own ass, she wouldn't have save Missandei. I really hate Dany, always have.

This old guy should hang out with the old guy from Star wars..

Sexy black chick is dead meat....

The leaked snippets on Twitter all day showed the walls of King's Landing getting assaulted yet there was none of that in this episode OR in the preview for next week's episode. What gives?

r153 Spoilers thread.

It’s obvious that’s going to happen, R156, they were just trying to build suspense.

SPOILERS for r145:

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Dany's side was traveling south over the water and were met by Euron;'s fleet; each ship had giant crossbows (like the one Qyburn made last season), and they killed the second of the dragons (the red one) with it. In the attack against Dany's fleet, Missandei was captured.

Dany's side then faced up against Cersei's army who were gathered on the walls of King's Landing. The two Hands, Qyburn and Tyrion, had a parley, but were unable to come to terms. Cersei was unable to bring herself to shoot Tyrion dead in her tracks (though she could have), but when Tyrion called for her to renounce the throne for the sake of her unborn child, she had the Mounatin's ziombie slice off Misandei's head (Missandei's last word was, "Dracarys" to her queen).

Next episode will be the big battle for Winterfell.

[Quote]I really hate Dany, always have.

Then you should be happy with the latest developments. it is clear with this episode that the writers have decided Dany is a character who is not to be trusted. You have all the characters who the show says are the smartest like Sansa, Varys and even begrudgingly Tyrion saying it this episode.

Dany haters must love this plot direction of her being more of an antagonist.

Cersei hates/loathes/despises Tyrion, but she doesn’t order her archers to kill him?

What did she say?

If Dany is going to Dracarys all of King's Landing next week, as I suspect she will, then she'll be just like her father. And Varys will kill her for it.

I loved Varys quoting me at r96 pretty much verbatim ten minutes or so after I posted that.

Did you miss the season 7 finale r161? We have already seen Cersei fail to kill Tyrion even when given the chance.

Thanks r157.

They are obviously setting Dany to go mad, with her advisor, best friend, and now one of 'babies' (dragons) all gone in short course. Setting her up big time. This will be the arc of the remaining two episodes.

Dani is REALLY mad now...

Had to stop checking the GoT tags on Twitter. People are pissed about this episode.

I clocked that r164. You were right

I have so much egg on my face right now because of my earlier post at r23.

r168 what are they saying?

[quote] This show is a soap opera now. The kind of soap opera where people do things for no reason just to keep the drama going

It's been a soap from the very first page of the first George R. R. Martin novel.

Hardly, r170. I thought they'd keep Missandei alive too, because it's the strategically intelligent thing to do. No egg for you

To be fair (sort of) Dany's ultimate collapse has been foreshadowed throughout the series. She's been gratuitously killing people, and feeling nothing about it, for years.

When Jon makes his funeral speech, why does he have his back to the living? He looks stupid. He's talking to all the funeral pyres.

Dany felt superior to the people of Mereen, and her personality and style over there, worked.In Westeros she is feeling very insecure, she is not trusting anyone. Now she's lost Jorah and Missandei and those were the closest people to her.I think Varys is going to get burned, literally.

Are you rewatching it r175 - so am I. I'm at the Gendry elevation scene

[quote]what are they saying?

They're pissed that Dany is being portrayed as irrational and power crazed, mad that Jon is being pushed for the throne, livid that Missandei, the only woman of color, was killed, infuriated by the fact that the dragons keep getting killed, furious that strong Brienne turned into a sniveling mess for Jaime, pissed that Jaime left Brienne, disgusted that Jon gave up Ghost.

I know there are dragons on this show but the invisible teleporting fleets still annoy the crap out of me. I'd be fine with it if they said it was Drowned God magic or something.

Thanks for that summation, r177. Appreciate it.

[quote]furious that strong Brienne turned into a sniveling mess for Jaime

I was pissed at that as well. Completely out of character, almost to the point of character assassination.

So what happens to the Lord of Light and all his ultra-power? His prophecies and his bringing people back from the dead and making old hags into hot youngish women? I mean is he still around or has he thought "Fuck those bitches in Westeros" and moved his whole magic operation to Essos or maybe just folded up shop altogether?

Euron is a plot device more than he is a real character r178.

My predictions (not spoilers) for the next two episodes:

Dany will continue to go nuts, and Dragon will destroy the throne room part of the Red Keep (if not the whole castle and the city) at her command. She will be killed by Jon Snow, whose heart will break in killing her; he will never be the same again. The Hound and the Mountain will have a huge battle next episode that will end with the Mountain certainly dead for good, and probably with the Hound gone too. Jaime or Tyrion will kill Cersei and die in doing so (probably Jaime). Sansa will end the season as Lady of the North, with Bran living with her at Winterfell. Either Tyrion will rule the Iron Throne by the end or Westeros will be broken back up into independent kingdoms. Bronn will be given Highgarden as promised.

R183- what about Arya?

r183 and Varys?

Missandei got Rickon'd.

I think Arya will go back to Gendry and he'll tell her she can be any kind of person she wants. They really belong together.

That would be fairytailish, r187, but I actually hope that's what she does end up doing. They do belong together. So do Jaime and Brienne (but I fear Jaime's not long for this world)

Yes, R176, I'm watching it again. R177 I agree. All of that...except there was something very authentic and sincere in the Brienne performance. She is not a one dimensional character. She was heart broken.

As if Cersei would have let Dany leave, especially on the dragon. She could have ended it all there and then.

Varys will invent the first Westerosian printing press with moveable type, and Arya will grow up to use it to produce Westeros's first feminist newsletter. She will start empowerment centers for women all over the Seven Kingdoms.

I think Jaime's a goner, as is Cersei, and Dany by the end. Too much foreshadowing. If they let Cersei live, what would she do? She either wins the war and continues her brutality or she loses the fight and her life. Without her around, what kind of story exists for Jaime? None.

They'll let Tyrion live as he'll be the only Lannister left & they need him to help rule over what's left of Westeros. Sansa probably lives, not sure about Arya or her future. Jon as well, it could go either way with him.

I think most of the secondary characters live on. Sam, Grey Worm etc. Euron is too evil to make it. Not sure about the Hound and Mountain, only one will stay on there (no way both come out alive).

Agreed- Brienne finally showed some more depth beyond the Warrior Woman. I was sad to see it but I thought is was a great scene.

[quote] As if Cersei would have let Dany leave, especially on the dragon. She could have ended it all there and then.

Dany was careful to remain out of range of the archers, and I don't think the giant crossbows that can fire at the dragons can be aimed downwards--only up.

Watching Jon & Dany she is terrified. That's why she asking him to swear to secrecy. She is in free fall. Not thinking clearly. I think they need to get married and if Jon is all inhibited because he was raised in the North he should get over it. Marriage is really the only solution and it is very obvious. Why Tyrion has not raised it with Dany I don't know. But they could end the whole problem with marriage.

r191 arrrrggghhhh noooo please - No fucking "Feminist newsletters" in fucking Westeros please

I'm glad that the Hound and Sansa finally got to speak, even if he was a cad about her rape. Interesting that Sansa could be so calm about it. She even reached out to touch him, to demonstrate that she wasn't the little bird anymore.

No r187. They are sticking to who Arya is, she doesn't want to be the lady of a castle and set around and host guest and what not. She told the Hound she doesn't even plan in going back to Winterfell.

More adventures await Arya, a life on the road fighting the good fight.

[quote]I think most of the secondary characters live on. Sam, Grey Worm etc.

No way Grey Worm lives, not after tonight. He'll go ballistic and rack up a Hell of a body count next episode, but hell be dead at the end.

R197, that was a disturbing moment, frankly. Was Sansa saying it was all worth it, because she’s now a super-tough bitch?

I'm at the same scene r195. You're right. Dany's terrified, which is something we've not really seen since she was a child.

Arya, hero who took down the NK or not, has murdered dozens of people. She’s not gong to have a happy ending with Gendry.

I think Arya was implying that she doesn't expect to survive. She's basically going on a suicide mission to kill Cersei.

I’ve read all the spoilers, and they’ve so far been completely correct, including this episode.

This is going to end much much darker than you think it will.

They all know now that Arya can use a different face and use it to sneak up on Cersei - why didn't they at least ask her, the great heroine and Night King Killer, to sneak down to king's landing and take a face and kill the Queen?

Where'd you find the spoilers, r204?

R177, that pretty much sums up how I feel. It has gotten to a point where I do believe it is lazy writing. I think the showrunners have an outline and don't know how to fill in the story in any plausible way. George RR Martin probably said Dany goes all Mad Queen after defeating the Others. We already fucking have a Mad Queen in Cersei. We don't need another. But I think Martin will probably have a more believable character arc.

Jaime just up and leaving completely undermines everything they've done with him. Just awful. And they know those scorpions exist. Did anyone think to to a reconnaissance mission around Dragonstone. Well, it was good while it lasted. I'll stay to see how it turns out, but I'm not as excited as I was. Sad to see a great show wind up going downhill, but I've seen it happen so many times over the years that I can't say I'm surprised.

I don't know where to begin. What a wrenching, heartbreaking episode. Maybe Brienne and Gendry can get together? No?

Honestly, I was impressed with some of the acting in this episode. This show is definitely not a fairy tale and won't end as one.

[Quote]. But I think Martin will probably have a more believable character arc.

It certainly won't be as rushed. David and Dan are speeding towards the end, so stuff has to happen quickly.

Years ago, the hound told Sansa that the world was built by killers. Thanks to all the shit that she's been through - and I like that she didn't mention Ramsey's name, because she promised to wipe his name out of the history books - well, now Sansa is a killer too, as we were reminded about her killing Ramsey with the hounds. So the subtle question is - what world is Sansa going to build? The non-subtle question is - how does Sansa vs. Dany end?

On rewatch I realize I completely got it wrong on the Bronn scene - he does indeed tell them that Cersei has hired him to kill them.

So Jaime is going to be the one to kill Cersei. After all the murders he's committed to get back to her and she puts out a hit on him? She's dead. And now he loves Brienne. Cersei is dead, dead, dead. He'll poison her just like he poisoned the Queen of Thorns.

[Quote]They all know now that Arya can use a different face and use it to sneak up on Cersei - why didn't they at least ask her, the great heroine and Night King Killer, to sneak down to king's landing and take a face and kill the Queen?

Because the plot demands otherwise, so you aren't supposed to ask this question.

Lol- Indeed, r212

R211, not if Euron gets there first. Tyrion was talking to Cersei abut her baby and Euron heard every word. So now he knows Jaime got her pregnant. Euron is a treacherous bastard anyway. He probably planned on killing Cersei as soon as he got rid of Dany.

I don't know why people are acting as if Arya is become some strident character. She has always said she was never going to be a little lady. There's a whole ass scene where she talks about it with Ned. It would be regressive and a disservice to her character to stay in Winterfell and play house with Gendry.

[quote]Was Sansa saying it was all worth it, because she’s now a super-tough bitch?

No, just like Bran told Theon - everything led him to that point. All the turmoil Sansa survived made her into who she know is. She could have let it kill her but she didn't.

True, r214. But Euron has to get past the Mountain in a way that Jaime doesn't. Or maybe the Mountain is gone by then? Possible.

GOT take on women:

No matter how fierce you are in battle, dying a virgin is BAD.

Better to be brutalized by psychotic men than remain a "little bird" forever.

And finally, bitches in power be crazy and must be brought to their senses by the men.

Sansa knows about Arya's bag of faces. I presume Bran knows too, but I don't think anyone else knows where Arya spent her missing years. Jon was in the dark when he returned.

Women wanting to have sex is bad r217?

And how many terrible men in power have there in Game of Thrones? Too many to count

You said as hyperbolic as the incels when they yell the show is anti-male, which we were just hearing last week.

That was so sad. Raegar and Missandei. Ugh.

Exactly R215. She said the EXACT words to Ned, "That's not me."

r217, GOT has more interesting women characters, doing more interesting things, than most other shows in the history of television. And certainly more than than most historical films or indeed fantasy films.

The fact that it's not "woke 2019 style" is not something that particularly bothers me.

If Sansa remained a little bird, she would be dead. Because she survived Joffrey, Littlefinger and Ramsey, she found her voice and then she found her power. She tested herself tonight by talking with the Hound... and she passed her last exam.

Jon dies. Dany is queen. Tyrion is executed. Varys survives by turning Tyrion in.

"I'm glad that the Hound and Sansa finally got to speak, even if he was a cad about her rape. Interesting that Sansa could be so calm about it"

Feeding your rapist to his own man-eating dogs and watching him die a slow horrible death has got to be a much better way of coping than therapy. If only we could implement it in the modern world!

As for Jamie and Brienne, he's probably heading off to kill Cersei, and said that to Brienne so she wouldn't try to go with him. He knows how sick his relationship with his sister is, he doesn't want Brienne to become part of that, he knows she's too good for him and deserves a sane and worthwhile life, and he probably expects to die in the South. And yes, she has every right to show how she felt then, she spent all those years repressing her feelings, she finally let them out and look what happens. She's female, she can go ahead and have that good cry.

People like sweet romantic endings, so seeing Arya wall away from that opportunity with Gendry makes them sad. But yes, it was completely the right thing to be true to Arya.

And it should be an empowering thing to have her think there is more to life than marriage.

The points fly over so many heads here, like the last remaining dragon.

All the incels have been complaining that the women on the show are doing too much, but IMHO it's going to end with Jon or Jamie on the Iron Throne, the straight white man will emerge triumphant in the end.

This story was written by a straight white man, after all.

If Arya is on a suicide mission, she's saying no to Gendry because she thinks she doesn't have a future, period

And because she doesn't want to be a Lady of anything. That's not who she is, as others here have mentioned.

She's a wanderer

She literally tells the Hound this episode how she doesn't like crowds, what has Arya mainly been during in Winterfell? Lurking around.

Being the lady of anywhere, even with someone who likes like Gendry, is completely not what she wants.

who she likes*

Yeah, the main reason Cersei hasn't married Euron already is that she knows damn well that once they were married he'd try to take the powers of the monarchy away from her and maybe try to kill her. So really, if they marry, it'll be a race to see who can kill or neutralize the other one first, and she'd never do it if she didn't need a "father" for her baby.

Funny how nobody else wants to marry her, even if she is queen and filthy rich.

Not my favorite episode, but I'm happy for Gendry at least. He's not a bastard anymore, yay.

And good for Pod for hooking up. Sad that Tormund got rejected by Brienne, but he bounced back okay. And, most importantly, he got Ghost.

I do think Jon will end up at the wall again and he'll meet up with Tormund and ghost. He won't rule the seven kingdoms or the North.

R228 you are a big-time L chatter/ feminazi just fucking stop. I'm cocked,gay and married. GRRM himself wants the matriarchy to up end the male dominated system in the story. The males are no longer as clever or as dominant on the show.

Arya will probably take Qyburn's face. But she won't be the one to kill Cersei. That's Jaime. Murder suicide.

(Missandei could've made all this easier if she'd have just grabbed Cersei and taken them both over the edge of the platform. Sheesh.)

[quote]If Dany is going to Dracarys all of King's Landing next week, as I suspect she will, then she'll be just like her father. And Varys will kill her for it.

How will he be able to do that?

I don't like Arya is going to take anymore faces , dudes.

Think not like

Nobody's going to kill Danerys except Jon, who is after all Azor Ahai reborn.

How about Arya survives, and we last see her back at the House of Black and White in Braavos where she'll live out her days as one of the Faceless?

[quote]Not my favorite episode, but I'm happy for Gendry at least. He's not a bastard anymore, yay.

Dany's pronouncements as Queen don't actually mean anything until she rules the kingdom.

No, Bronn isn't going to become Lord of the Reach, Sam is. The Reach was turned over to the Tarlys when the Tyrells were wiped out, and now Sam's father and brother are dead and the Night's Watch has functionally ceased to exist. And Sam has super-strong Plot Armor.

So Bronn's either going to die, or be reduced to a sellsword again.

And Arya is going to have to answer to Jaquen Hagar before all this is over.

[quote]The Reach was turned over to the Tarlys when the Tyrells were wiped out

By Cersei/Jaime. Once again, the promises are only has good as the power of the people who make them.

[quote]Dorne has a new prince!

I'm happy we got that throwaway line and at least the writers remembered it is big continent and stuff has to be happening in other regions.

Though that no one knew what was going on in Storm's End, the seat of one of the seven regions is silly. Sansa doesn't know? Varys doesn't know?

R236 the fun thing would be Arya killing Cersei as Qyburn. Jamie killing her is soap opera done wrong. Something tells me to those doors will go with JL dying with but not killing Cersei.

In a minor note, but Gendry Rivers bugged. Gendry is of Kings Landing, it is Gendry Waters. I don't know how no one corrected that in the writers room.

I can't see Arya killing Cersei, she had her big kill last week. I still see it being Tyrion or Jaime. It is interesting that Cersei has had the chance to kill Tyrion several times and hasn't. I like the theory of Jon killing Dany. I think it may happen, maybe she will be pregnant. Then he will go off somewhere, maybe reunite with Ghost and Tormund. I would love to see Jon rule, but they won't give us a happy ending. Of course there is a good chance he dies. Arya I could see just being a nomad, killing people when deserved. Which leads to Sansa ruling. Maybe she'll hook up with Gendry now that he's been legitimized and have an heir.

Why did Bran say he spends most of his time in the past?

Because he does r248. Looking through the past is kinda his thing, the show even called him the world's memory.

Okay, thanks r249. I thought he could see the future too.

[quote] He'll poison her just like he poisoned the Queen of Thorns.

That never happened.

Jaime did not poison the Queen of Thorns--she had already taken a fatal dose of poison when he had conquered Highgarden and came up to the tower to confront her.

Maybe the Mountain will malfunction and kill Cersei.

I wonder if Arya's mission isn't to kill Cersei, but to kill Dany. As long as Dany is alive, the Starks will be in danger, because Dany will be paranoid about them betraying the secret of Jon's parentage.

Jamie poured poison in Olenna's wine and she chugged it like a boss bitch. She did not drink poison before that.

The episode was called "The Last of the Starks," but I'm not clear why.

Dani May have a dragon but she reminds me of every bad woman boss I have had....

I take that to mean that this episode basically confirmed that none of the Starks will have children. So no Dany/Jon baby, no Gendry/Arya baby, no Sansa/Tyrion baby, and obviously, no Bran baby.

I think at this point too many people know about Jon's parentage already. Varys is someone who would use the information because he is all about protecting the realm. Sansa broke her word and betrayed Jon, so the cat is out of the bag already. I think Jon will ultimately have to choose between Dany and his family, the remaining Starks (that why I think the ep was named that). Jon sort of proved tonight that he would choose his family over Dany. I do agree, this might be the end of the line for the Starks though. The only one who could and would produce an heir is Sansa.

Sansa is another candidate for killing Cersei in my eyes.

Sansa cannot kill Cersei--for one thing , she is back at Winterfell, but for another, it has been predicted by the same seer who predicted the death of Cersei's children that she will be killed by her "little brother."

Tyrion is part Targaryean. Jamie will kill his sister.

I just noticed on my rewatch that after the Hound sent that wench away from his table, Podrick and his girl meet up with her in the background of the shot, he whispers something to her, and all three of them go off together. Nice one, Pod! He'll be a legend in Winterfell soon enough.

(But, during the drinking game, why did Pod take a drink when Tyrion asked Brienne if she was a virgin? Aren't you supposed to drink if something was true? Was he just taking a sip to support Brienne?)

[quote] it has been predicted by the same seer who predicted the death of Cersei's children that she will be killed by her "little brother."

That was not a show prophecy. It was only in the books. It may happen on the show anyway, but Maggy the Frog on the show does speak of Cersei's death.

[quote]  So no Dany/Jon baby, no Gendry/Arya baby, no Sansa/Tyrion baby

Jon isn't a Stark. His child would be a Targaryen. And Sansa's child/ren would be given the last name of their father so just because the Stark name ends with them doesn't mean they won't have kids.

Sansa' kids could be named Stark if she wanted.

Jon is a Stark His mother Lyanna Stark was Ned Stark's sister. But I was talking bloodline more than I was talking the name Stark. If they called the episode the Last of the Starks, I presume they mean the end of the family line, meaning the episode title implies Sansa (and the rest) won't have any kids.

If Bran is the Three-Eyed Raven, why isn't he a tree like the last 3ER? Doesn't he have to be wrapped up in a Weirwood to see long distance through space and time? I know he can access his powers by rolling his eyes up in his head like someone stuck a fat vibrator up his ass, but he's been made more powerful than Professor X on Cerebro.

And why can't he just Hodor himself into the Mountain and squeeze the pulp out of Cersei?

Do we think there will be a time jump in the Finale?

Is Jamie going back to King's Landing to kill his sister or save her?

Kill her. We're meant to think he wants to save her. But he wants to end her and her poisonous ways

[quote]The episode was called "The Last of the Starks," but I'm not clear why.

Arya: "We're family. The last of the Starks."

Then Jon wimps out and motions for Bran to tell him about his parentage.

How many melanated people did the show kill off in this episode???

r263 I have a feeling that Sansa cannot bear children. I think Ramsay may have done some pretty horrific things to her that would potentially mess up her reproductive organs. also...she probably never wants a cock near her again.

Wow people are whining about this episode. NOTHING is going to make you happy at this point. It's so built up that there is no way. Just enjoy it. Ive thought Dany has a dangerous streak for a long time. So this shift is not a surprise to me.

Why did Sansa tell Tyrion? To try and convince him to switch his allegiance?

Cersei told Missandei to speak her last words. So Missandei looked her queen and the love of her life dead in the face, filled her lungs with air, and said "Clap ALL of these n---as"

Recognize a G when you see one

Do we really think we've seen the last of Tormund? Never would have guessed he would get a happy ending in all this.

[quote] also...she probably never wants a cock near her again.

Only scissoring and carpet munching for me from now on!

Get over here, Brienne of tarth1

I guess Gilly being pregnant answers the question of if Hannah Murray was pregnant or just gained weight. I can't see the writers addressing her weight gain if it was anything besides a pregnancy.

I think to tonight's episode was Tormund, Gilly, Sam and Ghost's farewell. Don't think we'll see them again. Was anyone else disappointed we didn't see the Starks reaction to the Jon reveal?

I think Sansa truly feels Dany is dangerous to the North and the Stark family. Actually the entire 7 Kingdoms. I think that's why she told Tyrion. Jon is blinded by love, but everyone else sees it. Dany has always been like this, they are just finally acknowledging it on the show.

Dany has always been absolutely ruthless, willing to avoid mass casualties if possible, but not willing to avoid war and bloodshed if she thinks the end justifies the means. That's considered crazy in our society, and admirable in Westeros.

But she hasn't been whiny or stupid, until this episode.

And BTW, Emilia Clarke is totally not up to the challenge of gradually getting crazier.

ARE THERE NO MORE GAY PEOPLE IN WESTEROS??

Ugh! -crazy ass breeders tearing and burning everything up and shit!

Where's Arya again?

I don't recall seeing her at Winterfell, or with Dany's forces.

Arya rode off with the Hound to go to Kings Landing. She was at Winterfell in the beginning- said no to gendrys proposal, told Jon Dany wasn't one of them, etc. she's done with Winterfell for good.

To the poster who asked about the introduction of red in Dany's wardrobe...it's pretty obvious now, no? Cersei's is full red, while Dany's is leaching into her wardrobe, like her rage and madness.

I was waiting for Dany to fly Drogon around the fleet and burn them all to hell.- how hard would have that been? The boats can't turn around as quickly as Drogan can turn.

I'm thinking Bronn doesn't end up with any castle since he keeps on wanting a bigger one.

For real r283 I didn't understand why she didn't fly behind the ships and burn them. She could've taken out a couple before the scorpion were reloaded.

[quote]Arya will probably take Qyburn's face. But she won't be the one to kill Cersei. That's Jaime. Murder suicide.

I suspect the writers just can't let it be anything else than a fall from a tower.

Warning: You are now entering FULL FRAU MODE. In ten seconds, override will not be possible. 10 - 9 - 8 - 7...

Murder suicide for Jamie and Cersei would work for me.

R283, Danerys is wearing more red and black, because red and black are the official Targaryan colors. She was wearing whites and blues that flattered her, until she got serious about invading Westeros. Then she started wearing more dark gray and black, with touches of red. She has been for the last two years or so.

Of course red and black aren't very flattering to people with platinum hair and blue or purple eyes, but the books were written by a straight man.

And Cersei has always worn shades of red and gold because red and gold are the official Lannister colors, even while she was Robert Baratheon's queen she wouldn't have dreamed of wearing his house colors, which were black and yellow. She wore black for a while after her children died, but she's over that now.

And Margarey never wore anything but the light blue and gold of the Tyrell banner, and the Starks don't seem to care about such things, but their colors are white and gray and they always seem to have some gray fur somewhere. And Joffrey and Tommen always wore Lannister red and gold, never Baratheon black and yellow, because they weren't really Baratheons and were dominated by their mother and her interests.

That's what production design is supposed to do, give information about character. If you know the house colors, you can understand the characters' loyalties by looking at their clothes.

It's really sad Jon is disavowing his Stark side? He is still a Stark after all. Yet, he is leaving it all behind, including his direwolf to go south. As it stands right now, it seems it's all to fight Dany's war. Then there is Arya going in and on about family and then she bounces vowing to never return to Winterfell again.

Jon barely reacted when he saw his direwolf.

People are going nuts about Jon's cold farewell to Ghost. Moreso than even the Missandrei death. Don't know if it was laziness on the writer's part or that he is just extracting himself from all things Stark.

I bet Ghost is pissed. He stuck with Jon even when he was dead, ffs.

Sucks to be brown. Where’s your white saviour now?

Is Brienne the first woman other than Cersei that Jaime has fucked?

[quote]Is Brienne the first woman other than Cersei that Jaime has fucked?

Yes.

I’m done with the show after watching this episode. Lazy writing that resembles fanfic ASOIAF does not make.

It just gets worse by the episode.

Does anyone other than Catelyn know that Jaime (until now) had only fucked Cersei? Do all those women who hit on him not wonder why he flicks them away?

If Cersei survived Dany, she would inevitably come after the Starks. So this is not just Dany's war, it is the Starks war too. The problem for the Starks is that when Cersei is dead, Dany becomes their next problem.

So does Dany just have those few hundred Unsullied left? Sad. What is Dany without dragons?

I guess she will

A) start a democratic parliament, if she wants to break the wheel and break the chains OR

B) get Daario and his troops to slaughter everyone left in Westeros who don't support her.

Agree with others, R267. He's going to kill her. After Brienne, it seems, his eyes are opened.

I think a piece of Jon remains with Ghost and vice versa. Literally, like some type of supernatural connection, what with warging being a reality in this world and whatnot. So while it looks like separation to us, to them it's not.

Wouldn't it be poetic if, after all Ellaria and the Sand Snakes went through, there was now a new princess of Dorne, not a prince? But that would have intrigued people too much and everyone would want to meet her, so I understand why they went with a generic prince.

I wonder if they're sending their forces for the final battle.

This tweet pretty much sums up my feelings about how this show should end too.

Anyway, basically everyone hates how this show is ending. Mad Queen Dany is NOT tracking. Martin better take note. You thought the reaction to last week’s episode was bad? Lol. People REALLY hated this one.

Also, Bran actor has a NY Times interview where he basically says NK is definitely over, and that he wasn’t doing anything while he was warging other than some minor raven reconnaissance,, so this whole thing is playing out quite uncreatively.

Bran’s Times interview. Did the world really need this?

After everything they went through together, Ghost doesn't even get a pat on his now non-existent ear. I don't think I'll ever look at Jon the same way again. Another bit of character assassination right there.

That damn Starbucks cup sure isn't helping this episode go down any better with people.

Second time it's happened, by the way.

Dorne having a princess wouldn't be a big deal r305. Dorne is the only kingdom where it is normal for women to rule. The first born takes the throne regardless of gender.

They are the Westerosi place that is progressive on gender and sexuality.

r311 I know it wouldn't have been a big deal. I meant that the viewing audience would have been intrigued by the mention of a princess and would want to meet her, not the characters in the show.

Remember when Varys was a character that knew everything? Rhaegar and Lyanna got married by a Septon and had it recorded in the Citadel's records. Youd think he would have already known.

r313 They got married in the middle of nowhere in Dorne during wartime. I'm sure Varys was preoccupied at the time and the thought of those two marrying hadn't even occurred to him. Besides, it's easier to have spies in the cities than out in the countryside.

[quote]Missandei is the only black (well, mixed) person aside from Grey Worm. She ain't going nowhere

This post held up well.

For being eunuchs, some of the Dothraki sure have huge mouth-watering bulges. Even Varys lets his hangers swing under his caftan on occasion.

Grey Worm should change his moniker to Grey Snake. 😋

r315 Yes, I already called myself out at r170 after the episode had ended.

[quote]Brienne went from a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms to a heartbroken woman weeping in her bathrobe for her man to stay. Jaime tossed out years worth of character development to announce that he’s irredeemable after all. Varys and Tyrion spend years supporting Daenerys and singing her praises as the One True Queen only to decide they’d rather have the first person-with-a-cock available for the job – even though he doesn’t want it and has a history of abdicating. Tyrion utters the completely ludicrous sentiment “I know you’re not a monster” to Cersei, after eight seasons of her proving the exact opposite over and over again. Sansa tells The Hound that her years of rapes, beatings and being terrorized were ultimately great for her. Arya leaves her family with the intention of never seeing them again without so much as a goodbye after several episodes of tearful reunions and intense family bonding. The only black female character on the show (and one of only two people of color in the cast) is put in chains before she’s beheaded so that other characters can feel mad and take action.

Well, when you put it that way, I can see how the writing sucks now.

Dothraki are most certainly NOT eunuchs.

So was Sansa being unreasonable this episode or not? I get that she didn't want Dany to rule because she didn't want the North to be under her rule, so she was annoyed at that. Wasn't the North always under the rule of the King of the seven kingdoms? Why is she acting like this is new? Or is it new? Idk.

Seems like having your brother's gf as queen would be okay for your region. And Jon would let her be warden of the North, so that should make her happy.

I was kind of pissed she immediately told Tyrion jon's secret.

Yeah, sorry. I meant the Unsullied.

Some of the Dothraki actors are very well-packaged, too, though.

R318 Tyrion's 'you're not a monster' line was ridiculous. Of course she is, are we forgetting she blew up the sept and all those people, amongst other things?

Westeros was seven independent kingdoms until the Targaryens invaded. The Starks had ruled the Kingdom of the North for centuries.

I think Brienne will leave Pod in charge of protecting Sansa at Winterfell and she will ride after Jaime to convince him that he's worth it.

That can't be the last meeting between the two- Brienne crying in her bathrobe. Even if Jaime actually kills Cersei, and dies in the process, it'd be a shit way to end it with Jaime and Brienne.

The Starks ruled the North for millenia actually, the history of the Westerosi feudal system is very long r323. The Targs invaded about 300-350 years ago and united everybody under the Iron Throne.

[Quote]So was Sansa being unreasonable this episode or not?

It depends on your perception of Dany. If you look at Dany as a perfectly fine choice of ruler she looks completely unreasonable, if you look at Dany as crazy she seems wise.

Will Daario ever make an appearance again? Hopefully nude with his fantastic ass, huge cock and balls, signified by his BDF.

The guy that played Daario has gone nude before r326.

Predictions: Jamie kills Cersei in a murder suicide. Arya travels with the Hound on a mission to kill Cersei. She witnesses the Hound die in a fight with the Mountain. She kills the Mountain. Maybe she dies in the process. Jon kills crazy Dany. Somehow Tyrion aids him after he finally comes to the realization she would be a bad queen. Jon has already said he doesn't want to rule. He destroys the Iron Throne so that the Seven Kingdoms are independent again. He entrusts Varys and Tyrion with creating a Seven Kingdoms UN. Sansa rules the North. Brienne has Jamie's baby and raises it with Tormund. (I don't know about this one, but it would be a laugh.) Sam gets his ancestral home back and writes GOT. Bran becomes a tree?

Jamie is killed by Arya, she assumes his face and murders Cercei.

Who wore it better?

A) Regan McNeil

B) Bran Stark

^i would have believed that had Arya not killed the Night King. Now that she has, Cersei isn't hers to kill.

I need to see Euron die SO bad. It's a shame they didn't write that Dragonbinder horn from the books for him so he could revive Rhaegal as a sea monster - "What is dead may never die!" Imagine seeing that in the final season?

How awful it must have felt for Dany to lose the dragon named after her son.

Drogon is going to roast Euron. That needs to happen.

Or it'll be Yara Greyjoy.

[Quote]How awful it must have felt for Dany to lose the dragon named after her son

It was named after her brother Rhaegar, Jon's father, so it was fitting that he was the one that rode it.

Maybe Grey Worm will kill Euron? He still deserves his glory scene.

r335 I prefer my version, seeing how she never knew her brother.

I'm finally starting to like Dany. As a white savior she sucks but as a villain she's great.

The actor who plays Euron reminds me of Ewan McGregor

He looks like a cross between Ewan and Joshua Jackson.

YES, R340!. You're right.

So boring I turned it off Halfway through with the expectation that I’d catch up later. Sounds like I don’t need to.

^ Bitch, you passed out drunk on your ancient sofa in your lonely home. Pffft.

[Quote]I need to see Euron die SO bad. It's a shame they didn't write that Dragonbinder horn from the books

I assume in the books Euron will take down a dragon that way. The show runners made dragons a lot more vulnerable, in the books you have to hit them in the eye. But they don't love the magic and I am sure they didnt want to introduce more magical elements.

The dragons have always seemed incredibly fragile, given what they’re supposed to be.

The only woman of color died in the third to last episode of the series! The HORROR! The OUTRAGE! Brienne cried when she got dumped. How UNREALISTIC for her “strong warrior” character! How can people not realize how ridiculous they sound with their complaints. If you don’t like the ethnic makeup of a show—don’t watch. Maybe in a few years they will remake GoT as woke—the Lannister’s will be black, the Starks middle Eastern, the Targaryens Asian, and Varys as a Hispanic trans etc.

Tormund and Ghost are going north, how about Bran?

R318- the best and most fitting line from that article sums up the direction the show is going.... Bitches Be Crazy.

Dany going down a darker path has always been hinted at, now that its happening people say it is misogynistic.

[quote]Dany will be paranoid about them betraying the secret of Jon's parentage.

Already done that.

Don't like where his character seems to be headed, but damn, that was a good looking grey outfit Varys wore to the meeting with Cersei. In fact, he's moved away from the bathrobe look the whole episode.

Dany begging Jon to keep quiet is pathetic! I'm glad Sansa told Tyrion about Jon, but for a shows season to be so much about 'girl power', they've played the women save the Stark sisters as IDIOTS.

[Quote]Dany begging Jon to keep quiet is pathetic

Dany was completely correct. As soon as Jon told people it would be used against her and to split them apart, and that is what immediately happened. Their relationship is over now, Dany realized that, Jon as in character was too naive to see it.

The show has come down to two mentally ill blonde women fighting over who gets the chair.

Dani is as drunk with power as Cersi. I'm not liking this season at all. The fleet of ships that appear out of nowhere or someone should have said this is an area where a fleet of ships could hid. What kind of job did girl with long name starting with M ? Advisor ?

Arya is a killing machine, and she knows it. In her own way, like the Night King, she’s possessed by it, and admittedly not good for much of anything else.

If she survives the carnage, she’d best go back to the Temple of Death, and drink of the pool. The killing has pretty much hollowed her out.

[quote]Brienne went from a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms to a heartbroken woman weeping in her bathrobe for her man to stay.

That made sense to me. Brienne takes advantage of her body by molding it to that of a Knight rather than a Lady to get the respect she wants. And she has longed for respect as a Knight, which Renley and Jaime gave her. And she wanted love, which Jaime gave her. Appearances aside, she is a straight woman and as someone with personal nobility, she won't fuck anyone for the sake of it. Tormond is a decent bloke but she is affronted by his coarse manners and isn't in love with him, she is attracted to handsome, sophisticated, high-born men like Renley and Jaime. He is as much a person of responsibility and moral strength as she is so that he does have sex with her it's real for both of them. He won't have sex without love, and she's his first apart from Cersei.

So that he would leave without a word is devastating for her. She is a badass knight, but she's also sexually immature and and has the greatest 2 nights of her life - being knighted, fighting the dead and making love to Jaime. We know Jaime's leaving to kill Cersei, but she doesn't. It would be crazy if she wasn't weeping in her bathrobe.

I took the title, "The Last of the Starks" to mean "We have seen..." Clearly everyone was saying good bye to Winterfell: Jon, Ghost, Tormund and his Wildings, Sam & Gilly, etc. It was the end of their time together. Jon & Davos rode off to face Cersei, Arya left with the Hound, but I have a feeling she'll be back. Sansa and Bran will remain. This was a transition. I was just realizing Sam has that huge castle and estates to manage now. He's the Heir to Horn Hill.

R357 I felt like Brienne knew he was going to kill Cersei. She knew he was in danger and wanted him to stay with her. He told her he was a hateful person, trying to make it easier to let go, but she knows better. When he told Bran he is "not that man anymore..." I believe that is true. Brienne has been suppressing her emotions for years. She finally allowed herself to express them.

While I appreciate the regular shutouts to us cocksuckers, I thought Bronn's last night was pretty nasty and played for laughs.

If that was his exit and we never see him again, I'll be fuming. I need to see him die in a horrible way. Highgarden my ass. That's like giving California to the sultan of Brunei, ffs!

[quote][R357] I felt like Brienne knew he was going to kill Cersei. She knew he was in danger and wanted him to stay with her. He told her he was a hateful person, trying to make it easier to let go, but she knows better. When he told Bran he is "not that man anymore..." I believe that is true. Brienne has been suppressing her emotions for years. She finally allowed herself to express them.

Agreed; Jaime was preparing her for his departure and probable death; that he will he a kinslayer as well as a kingslayer when he kills Cersei.

(couldn't he knife Bronn first? God that guy gets on my tits)

I usually enjoy Bronn, buts it's getting a little played out. I will forever love the Hound, his reaction when they all toasted Arya was priceless.

As I think about it, Cersei's chat with Tyrion outside the gates, was the second time she passed up a chance to kill him. And then I consider the Character of Bronn, the way they have written him, and he seems like a character who'd have a lot more in common with Euron than Cersei. He is a sell sword. So. Is it possible that Euron told Qyburn to have Bronn get rid of the brothers? Will Qyburn turn on Cersei for Euron?These a re all treacherous people. There's trickery afoot...

When Qyburn was speaking to Cersei and you couldn't see him, I swear I thought it was a chick.

r289, if you look at that picture of Dany, the red is literally leaking into her costume. The only other time she wore red is a dress when she was asserting herself over the Dothraki after Khal Drogo died, a cape when she was waging war, and an underskirt when she was on Dragonstone planning for war.

Did anyone else see two dragons flying around in the preview for next week? Also, why did Euron look so shocked after hearing the dragon roar?

A strong warrior can't cry when her heart breaks? Brienne's human, you know. Crying doesn't make her weak.

Imo, she deserves better than Jaime and I'm glad he reminds her he's a bad man. I wish he told her too he raped his sister near the corps of their incestous dead son, so she'd get the full picture of the piece of shit who took her virginity.

With everyone going off to fuck, it looked like Sansa wanted the Hound to taste that thang

Will they raise a dragon from the dead ?

I have to wonder how they knew to kidnap Missandei? I think it's an important event. Only Tyrion, Varys, and Davos (and Jon) knew how important Missandei was to Dany. And of that group, only Tyrion has been known to have both worked closely with Missandei, and also met with Cersei...and may have been communicating with her still. I can't forget the looks Bran kept giving him.

How could Varys not now about Lyanna and Rhaegar? Especially with his role as "Master of Spiders"

r371 They were married during a war in secret and it's not like he has his spies peppered through every acre of the Seven Kingdoms like drones. He knows what's going on in the cities. In the countryside, not so much.

I'd like an ending where Arya and Brienne go off together and have adventures: It's a classic buddy comedy, the loose-cannon and the by-the-book one.

Bronn doesn’t deserve the richest of the seven kingdoms.

I said the same thing earlier r371. Either Varys should know, or he should feel bad for not knowing.

Knowing those type of secrets was his whole identify, but it seems they have forgotten that aspect of the character.

No dragons in the preview R366. But we see two birds. Ha !

Qyburn has little birds too R370.

I was hoping for Jaime and Brienne to have hotter sex. After the sideboob that killed the Night King we could at least enjoy the Lannister loins. Maybe the actors didn't want to show off their 40-something palebods.

I'm still perplexed that Theon saved Yara so effortlessly. Still not a peep from Euron about her escape.

I agree with whomever said upthread that this season and last are suffering due to truncation. With 10 episodes each, there would have been time for the smaller scenes, like the Stark children finding out about Jon, etc. Without them, all we're left with are battles and broadstrokes, and after living with these characters for so long, that's unsatisfying. More episodes would also have given them time to arc things properly, like Jon and Dany's relationship, Dany's slide into madness, etc. As it is, it just feels like everyone is playing the beats and cashing the checks.

I really liked both of the Hounds interactions with the Stark ladies. Felt good to see him and Arya off on the road again. Also liked the reaction to how Sansa handled her former husband.

This whole filling the Red Keep with more and more people is feeling a little too Jamestownian and not a good plotline. Did the entire population of KL forget about their precious Sept? Idiotic writing and really just letting the finale get crushed under the weight of the series, unfortunate.

not too long ago... perhaps around the time the first episode of season 8 aired... i wrote in one of these threads that i'm hoping for sansa+sandor because well.. they are meant to be, sansa is smart so she must appreciate what he did for her and because ned stark told sansa she would marry a KNIGHT.

and then another poster said it won't happen because sansa is too callous and hound too soft for her, basically. and i thought they were bonkers.

but wherever you are, my fellow DL poster, you were bang on.

i thought the sansa/sandor scene was heartbreaking.

the very first thing sansa said to him? that a meaningless tryst with some northern stranger would make him happy. wtf? is this the sansa who was the only character in the series who felt sorry for poor lollys..?

and then adding insult to injury... he's telling her all the horrible things that happened to her wouldn't have happened had she stayed by his side - and her reply is that she would still be 'that little bird' if it weren't for all those bad things (=bad people) as if remaining a little bird was a bad thing..? she's basically telling him everything he liked about her has died and she's happy about it. she's happy the person he knew is dead or at the very least unrecognizable. i thought that was such a callous thing to say to him, honestly... he looked so sad when he realized the person he felt so much affection for is no more. and she's like... 'good.' ffs.

It’s only tits and dragons.

And we are down to the last dragon

Do Dragons reproduce asexually in this verse? Could Drogon lay some dragon eggs?

I think I'm the only one who didn't care that the dragon died. Mainly because Dany has always had too much reliance on them.

Dany came here to kick ass and fly dragons . . . and she's almost out of dragons.

R384 Since their hatching there has been zero attempt at deciphering male/female/mating habits of these dragons, so what they're capable of nobody knows. With what's left, we're going to be lucky if we get a shot of an egg.

If there are more dragons, wouldn't Jon be like the father of dragons since he's a Targaryen?

At this rate he'll be father of nothing.

[Quote]I'm not liking this season at all. The fleet of ships that appear out of nowhere

Dragon reproduction is kept pretty mysterious even in the books. Some people argued there was male and female dragons, while others say they have no set gender and change gender at will.

Basically one day a dragon will lay eggs and those will hatch into new dragons, if the person is lucky. Do those eggs have to fertilized by another dragon, quite possibly, but also maybe not.

Whoops, meant to quote r387's post

If they'd wanted to make Danerys mad instead of just ruthless and ambitious (qualities that are considered normal for the head of a major Westerosi house), they should have started earlier. How about last season, when her first dragon died? Why not show her as having a bit of a breakdown then, and being unable to cope for a while? How about having her break down in the middle of the Battle of Winterfell, when she has to fight her "child" as a zombie? Then maybe I'd buy Dany's transition to crazy Mad Queen, because I am NOT buying her suddenly turning angry and whiny and stupid after the Battle of Winterfell. And I do mean suddenly, it's like they flipped a switch!

That's the problem with so few episodes, they're rushing something that should have been subtle and gradual, and it's not like HBO wouldn't have been willing to pay for more.

R392 There will be a triple twist with Dany's storyline. Lots of things happen with her..

No spoilers r393! I want to remain pure.

tell me, r393, i want to know.

pretty please?

We need a new Spoilers thread. THe old one maxed out.

There is one

PLEASE, everyone, keep the discussion of spoilers to the spoilers thread.

From the beginning, this fandom has been plagued with assholes who read the books and delighted in spoiling future events for TV watchers out of an immature feeling of superiority, but we're all adults here. So don't be that immature guy who posts spoilers, and if you want spoilers, the link to the spoiler thread is just above.

R392, Dany is supposed to be better than other rulers; she is supposed to want justice. That's why Varys has supported her. He's now seeing what has been obvious from the beginning, that one of the reasons Dany enjoys righting wrongs is that she loves to punish people. She enjoys being haughty and powerful and cruel; she's a sadist, like her father. One of the great images from the show was of her sitting on her throne in Meereen, all alone, preening while listening to the screams of the hundreds of slave masters she was having crucified. The death of Missandei has now inspired her to want to see everyone in King's Landing go up in flames. She fights it, but she's got the crazy in her.

Thanks r398, totally agree.

"Dany is supposed to be better than other rulers; she is supposed to want justice. That's why Varys has supported her"

Actually, Varys supported House Targaryan back when the dreadful Viserys was the heir, something the writers seem to have forgotten. The thing is Viserys has been playing dynastic politics, backing House Targaryan against House Baratheon/Lannister, regardless of the individuals who sat on the throne. His politics weren't personal at first, not because Danerys was a better queen than Robert, Joffrey, Tommen, or Cersei, back in the day he was just for House Targaryan regardless of who the current heir was.

Because if you want to support the best individual person to rule rather than the best House, he should have been all for King Tommen! Tommen was the perfect king and would have stayed that way, he would do anything his intelligent wife or qualified advisors told him to do, as long as his mother could have been forced out of the picture he would have left the nitty-gritty of government in the hands of capable people and looked handsome and decent in public. Frankly, he's just the sort of person somone like Varys would want on the throne, yet Varys was backing Danerys Targaryan, who was ruthless and wanted to do the ruling herself.

ah... tommen the good kid and marge the clever, charming, persuasive miracle-worker... what could have been...:')

I've seen some comments that believe Varys was not really all about the realm like he says, that there has to be something in it for him. Not sure about that with only 2 eps left,

I never understood why Olenna Tyrell didn't have the foresight to poison Joffrey AND Cersei. She had to have known that Cersei would never withdraw quietly into the role of dowager queen, and would only make trouble for Margaery. Perhaps the books explained the oversight better.

Dany really ought to marry Gendry Baratheon, now that he's legitimized. He seems like a biddable enough consort, he'd look good on a throne, and he's not her nephew.

Maybe the dragon will pop out some eggs after Dany dies. It won't have anything else to do except breed at that point.

The dragon eggs came from the Shadowlands beyond Asshai, that's where Illyrio got them from, and there are supposed to be more of them, but they never hatched because they weren't "fired up." And from something I Read the GoT dragons are a sexual and can make more eggs.

The last dragon has to die because the white walkers are dead and the age of dragons is long gone.

This episode was like watching “Chicken Run”

Missandei “I WASN’T ON VACATION! I was TAKEN PRISONER” Euron: “It’s nice to have a bit of time to yourself” Missandei: “I was being tortured in solitary!” Euron “You should have plotted better Missandei “Chickens don’t plot Mr Euon” Cersei “Chickens go in. PIES COME OUT. “

CHOP

R404, marrying Gendry doesn't make any sense, because he's nobody without her. His claim to the Baratheon lands depends entirely on her becoming queen and making it stick, he is very much her dependent.

No, she said she planned to marry for political advantage before she invaded Westeros, and that means a man who could hand over one of the Seven Kingdoms without bloodshed. That would mean Robin Arryn, the new Prince of Dorne, Jamie Lannister, OR DUH, JON SNOW. Whom she loves and wants to marry anyway, and marrying him would bring the recalcitrant North on board and solve many other political problems. Really, she was foolish to fail to propose the minute she heard about his parentage or earlier, someone above was absolutely right who said that once that became common knowledge it'd drive them apart, and it has already. She's been written as smart enough to grab opportunities when they arise, up until now when she's suddenly all stupid and whiny.

I know far fetched, but Sansa and Gendry is a possibility if they jump ahead. Arya said she wasn't a lady, but Sansa sure is.

Gendry and Sansa would be very unhappy together, except when they parted to rule territories that are hundreds of miles apart. Sansa wouldn't be happy marrying a jumped-up blacksmith, she'd make him feel inferior whether she tried to or not, and he wouldn't be happy with a frigid wife. He needs to marry someone who enjoys sex, who'd appreciate his good nature, and who'd gently help him adjust to his new life without making him feel inferior.

Sansa needs someone who'd appreciate her brains and political acumen, someone with an aristocratic background, someone who'd let her govern the North in her own right, and who'd be patient with her sexual issues. That probably means someone older, like, you know, Tyrion.

Gendry? Tyrion? Why do you hate Sansa? Leave the poor woman alone.

I think in the recesses of his brain, in his fantasy, when Tyrion told Dany she might have to make a marriage in Westeros, he was thinking of himself.

I'm still sittin' here baffled at how Dany and her advisors and her military people did not bother to gather any intel on where the Iron fleet was, or leave someone at Dragonstone to keep an eye on the seas , etc. And honestly, how the FUCK did she not see those ships from the air. I mean. She seems to have some kind of blind spot where she does not anticipate things or prepare for eventualities. And did no one do any intel on WTF was going on in King's Landing? They made dozens of scorpions, put them on ships and lined the walls of the city with them. Who knew? What Dany doesn't know about prosecuting a war, she should have had advisors for. Good ones. None of her people seem ready for rime time.

That's the thing, R413, seasons 2-4 made her look like a fucking military genius, who conquered three city-states with clever tactics and minimal civilian bloodshed. Now she's making all these stupid mistakes and resorting to starving a civilian population, which is totally out of character compared to how she conducted her first campaigns.

The writers should be flogged! THEY are the ones making the stupid military mistakes, because they're rushing through the story with no need!

[quote]He needs to marry someone who enjoys sex, who'd appreciate his good nature, and who'd gently help him adjust to his new life without making him feel inferior.

Sound like Pod. Gendry should marry Podrick.

I pronounce Gendry Baratheon and Podrick whatever husband and husband.

Podrick Payne

R414, Dany has the most experience conquering and leading her armies, but instead D&D make her look dumb and inexperienced while Sansa is some kind of genius when it comes to battle strategies.

The show is just stupid at this point.

I hate it that Tyrion and Varys insist she hold back and take King's Landing without bloodshed. THey want her to be queen but they're too timid to really fight for it. They live in a dream world. I just did a major rant about this in the Spoiler thread.

Yes, Dany is being held to an unrealistic standard in the show. The idea that you should become a monarch of a land without spilling blood is absurd and contrary both to our own history and the history of Westeros.

Flying in with her dragons and torching the Red Keep is what she should have immediately done, but there is this very 2019 standard being applied that if any innocent people might die you are evil. Then I guess every lordnof Westeros has been evil?

I mean it is fine for the sake of the show wiritng for a 2019 audience, but it is worth pointing out that it is incongruent with how warfare works.

She claims to want to "break the wheel", yet it seems like she's just going to be another spoke in that wheel as it turns.

Dany didn't give two fucks when she told Samwell that she torched his father....then his brother.

[quote] think Ramsay may have done some pretty horrific things to her that would potentially mess up her reproductive organs.

No. Ramsay wanted children. As soon as he had a few sons, he was going to kill Sansa. Myranda told Sansa that there were parts of her (Sansa) that Ramsay needed in order for her to bear children. So Ramsay never did anything to Sansa to harm her ability to have children.

R399 You're overthinking everything. The Dany,Tyrion and Varys situation will be explained in the next two episodes. Between Varys and Tyrion, one actually believes Dany is a menace and the other has an agenda. Read the spoiler thread for more information.

[quote] I hate it that Tyrion and Varys insist she hold back and take King's Landing without bloodshed

Also, Varys promised Olenna "fire and blood" after Cersei killed Margaery and Lorus were killed by Cersie, so why has he suddenly gone all pacifist?

The boat thing was kind of dumb BUT those arrows were on swivels which were easily turned around.

But then they'd have to make sure not to shoot the sails... that would cost time and Drogon could torch 'em.

Not my fight, but if I only had one dragon I'd only attack at night when the archers couldn't see me..

[quote]Tormund and Ghost are going north, how about Bran?

SPOILER: He will continue to be insufferable.

Why didn’t they take an extra year to finish this show with some intelligence? I am baffled they’re happy with this final season. I guess they just don’t care.

From the Hollywood Reporter: Savvy viewers who tuned in to the fourth episode of the HBO fantasy saga’s final season, “The Last of the Starks,” were distracted when they spotted what appeared to be an out-of-place Starbucks coffee cup in a scene taking place in Winterfell, the home of House Stark.

Starbucks later responded with a tweet. “TBH we’re surprised she didn’t order a Dragon Drink,” read the post from the coffee chain’s official handle.

In response to “inquiries from those who saw a craft services coffee cup in Sunday night’s episode,” HBO said in a statement on Monday, “The latte that appeared in the episode was a mistake. Daenerys had ordered an herbal tea.”

I wonder who gets yelled at - continuity or editing. Probably both. The scene is so damn shadowy you can see how the cup was overlooked.

I wonder if David and Daniel are now regretting their decision to wrap up GOT or if they’re just ready to move on. Is their HBO slavery show officially dead?

Yes, R430, things seem rushed. Even more episodes would have been better. And, where the hell did Bronn come out of all of a sudden?? People come and go and the nextscene, their there. Also, when the ships were attacked, what land did the survivors land on? Just so confusing.

Come on, we all know Winterfell is a sitting Duck for an attack.

R433 the ships were dropping their anchors as they approached Dragonstone. Dany was flying her dragons their final laps as they approached her castle. That's when Euron attacked. His ships had been sitting there waiting for her to come home. How she or her people overlooked a fleet of enemy ships in their home waters is baffling.

Well said R381 . Viewers forget that Sansa made a lot of bad choices. One when the Hound came for her during the Battle of Blackwater (and the Hound had already shown kindness to her that time on the parapet with Joffrey) and then when Shae warned her not to believe Littlefinger on the wharf. Sansa continued to believe Littlefinger even when Brienne showed up and said she would escort Sansa wherever but Sansa was in lurve with Littlefinger despite seeing him murder two peop le in front of her.

[quote]Sansa continued to believe Littlefinger even when Brienne showed up and said she would escort Sansa wherever but Sansa was in lurve with Littlefinger

She didn't know who the fuck Brienne was. And she wasn't in love with LF, though she figured he was in love with her.

Sansa and Tyrion will eventually rule.

[quote]I mean it is fine for the sake of the show wiritng for a 2019 audience, but it is worth pointing out that it is incongruent with how warfare works.

Another take on what should really be happening, from Matt Yglesias:

Let me remind you that the military situation in King’s Landing is fundamentally a bankruptcy issue.

The Iron Bank fears (reasonably) that Daenerys would repudiate debts accumulated by King Robert and feels that Cersei has credibly promised to repay them, thus the bank is willing to extend further credit to Cersei on generous terms to uphold its own credibility as a collector.

The bank situation is one reason that the plan for a quick strike on King’s Landing made little sense.

Daenerys should have tried to consolidate her authority over as much of Westeros as possible and then tried to convince the Braavosi that their plan doesn’t make much sense.

Time is fundamentally not on Cersei’s side. She can’t just keep paying the Golden Company to guard King’s Landing forever. And the Iron Bank is putting a lot of faith in a deeply untrustworthy person.

This is the kind of thing the show has just totally left behind once it departed from Martin’s text — the sense that the world is large and events play out over time instead of racing suddenly from one dramatic set piece to another.

When Arya told the Hound she wouldn't be returning to Winterfell, I believe it's because after their confrontation with Jon near the Weirwood tree, certain decisions were made. One of them is that Arya will go to King's Landing with a goal of supporting Jon for the Throne.

Apparently, the finale leaked and those who know have said it's the 'worst finale' ever.

This was supposed to be the Jon Snow show.

Who told you that lie R442?

No shit, r441?

[quote]Tommen was the perfect king and would have stayed that way

Hear hear!

So why is King's Landing now inland, a desert and on the flats? Did Daenery's dragons destroy the landscape in Season 7?

Yes, the producers tried to pull a fast one is changing what King's Landing is supposed to look like.

Dany freed the slaves in Essos. This is a hero. Why doesn't the north like her? The worst thing she ever did was not sleep with Jorah, iain glen. The stupidest thing she ever did is not take king's landing, at the first. She helped jon with this dead army BS and now she is down 2 dragons. She did this because she cared. Now, Cersei has a large armada (ships) and those dragon killing weapons.

[Quote]Dany freed the slaves in Essos. This is a hero. Why doesn't the north like her?

Why do you expect Northerners to care about what happened in some far off land they know nothing about?

To the perspective of the people in Westeros, Dany is a foreigner coming to claim their country. That is one aspect of the shows writing that is realistic, these people are suspicious of Dany and not welcoming her with open arms.

“That is one aspect of the shows writing that is realistic, these people are suspicious of Dany and not welcoming her with open arms.”

And nor should they. Imagine some random foreigner rolling into town with tanks and three atomic bombs and saying, “I have arrived to save you from yourselves. I love you. Pledge your love to me or I will irradiate you. Decide now.”

[quote]“I have arrived to save you from yourselves. I love you. Pledge your love to me or I will irradiate you. Decide now.”

Whaddya know, Trump's mission statement.

Even worse than being raised in foreign lands, is that Dany carries the weight of being a Targaryen, and all the Mad King's sins are on her shoulders. Her family name ended up being feared and hated. Dany should have listened to tyrion's advice and married into a good family. Starks. Jon/Aegon.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NORTH?????!

So you have the Manderlys near White Harbor, you had the Umbers, the Karstarks, you had Moat Cailin and the Glovers, Mormonts of Bear Island, and then further south is all the way down . Except for the Riverlands The Fingers, and Harrenhal. The North is huge. And as Roose Bolton grandly pointed out The North was the largest part of the 7 kingdoms. So to control the North is no small thing.

In addition to all my complaints about everyone acting useless and out of character... why the fuck isn't Varys doing his job? Why isn't he telling Danerys that the walls of King's Landing and Euron's fleet have been fortified with anti-dragon harpoons? Why doesn't he know where Euron's fleet is? And WHY isn't he pointing out that it's absolutely in Danerys's interests to marry Jon as soon as she can? And that if she doesn't use Jon for the political marriage she planned, it'll have to be Jamie or the repulsive Robin Arryn?

He's become a serious liability to Danerys now, a man who was once one of my favorite characters is now written as useless and disloyal. Gawd, this season sucks.

R455- I thought Quyburn stole all the little birds from Varys. I thought winter was here. Remember there were snowflakes in Kings Landing when Jamie was leaving.

Maybe somebody asked this upthread, but during the parlay between Qyburn and Tyrion, Dany, her troops, and Drogon were all within shooting range of the scorpions. Why didn't Cersei just mow them down? It's not like she's honorable and wouldn't do something that underhanded, even if it did violate some sort of war protocol of Westeros. She could have taken out another Dany and Drogon while the full force of her army was right there. I know, I'm looking for logic in a show full of plot holes.

R456, as far as we knew Varys's "little birds" were adults that he paid for information, people like Jorah or Ros, or that woman in the part Littlefinger pointed out in the first season. Kyburn's "little birds" are all homeless children as far as we know, and while they may be great sneak assassins, I don't see how he can get any useful intelligence info from them.

I think he's a pedo, surrounding himself with little kids who will do anything for a coin. I might be crushing on him if I didn't think that, he's one of the smartest men in Westeros and it's only Mad Scientist!

Anton Lesser, who plays Qyburn, is fantastic, R458. When he speaks, he’s simultaneously soothing and deeply sinister.

Does anyone know the answer to r432’s question?

Can we have Jon Snow jump out of the shower like Bobby Ewing on Dallas and pretend this season never happened? Pick it up where Arya kills Walden Frey and go from there?

R460, “Confederate” was still in development as of a few months ago. D&D seem to have moved on.

Thanks r462. You mean they are no longer involved with the project? It really doesn’t sound palatable.

R463, no, they are still involved; I meant to say that they clearly were over GoT a while ago. Yeah, their new project does not sound good.

The people of westeros hate the lannisters. The lannisters beheaded ned stark. Now, they just beheaded another person.

I am sorry David Benioff and D.B. Weiss burned out on GoT but the fact they absolutely shit all over this last season is unforgivable.

R456- There was a scene in the season when Cersei blew up the sept where Qyburn is talking to the street urchins about Varys. The kids were saying they liked Varys because he gave them sweets. I thought Quyburn even mentioned that conversation to Cersi.

R457 Yeah your problem is that you're expecting sense from the writing. It ain't going to happen.

I don't get why the fanbase is surprised at the writing this season. Did everyone forget about Season 7? This isn't new, this is the level the writing has been at it.

Honestly since Season 5, but especially since Season 7.

Since season 8 is so short the awfulness is very concentrated.

R468 "What fuckin wobbly dildo wrote this bullshit"

I would have taken out Qyburn as a parting gift after the beheading.

[quote]Why didn't Cersei just mow them down?

Why didn’t Cersei kill Tyrion right then and there when we know she hired Bronn to kill him already? Who the fuck knows anymore?

Have the writers been making all this stuff up or is the show following GRRMs plans?

No one knows. I mean we know certain things, the show has diverged heavily from published material in many respects. I mean major plotlines from the books don't even exist in the show, plotlines that exist in the show don't exist in the books.

But since it is not published, we don't know how much of this is based around GRRM's outline of what he plans to do, versus how much of this is their decisions. Of course an outline is just that, an outline. You still have to write it in a way that works.

Because killing people during a Parlay is BAD. The people in westros do not like this. How she going to explain killing messandei? Probably, through lies.

GOT peaked in Season 4 when it left the books. Like Madmen and Lost the finale will be disappointing D&D schlock Pity.

The major characters pretty much the same, though there is not dialogue to go on and use. Minor characters major changes. A lot of minor characters do not exist in the show, or were killed off because they were not working on the show.

The biggest change that we know of is the lack of Aegon plotline.

How could Danerys flying around on a dragon at 300 ft miss Urine's fleet of hundreds of sailing ships "sneaking" up on her.? So much for aerial reconnaissance. Would a murderous bitch like Cersi really allow her enemies and her despised bro too stand in front of her and not order every bloody arrow and catapult to fire away.? How do you hold a normal conversation with someone standing on top of a 50 ft wall with out cell phones? Oh never mind it's just a (badly written) TV show.

No spoilers here, r424.

BLOCKED!

I loved how season four ended- with Arya sailing off to Braavos. It filled me with such hope. (Mary, I know).

Of course, when she got there it wasn't great- despite hot Jaquen. But that feeling from the season four finale was the best feeling I've had from this show.

Sorry, I don't watch Game of Thrones...but who's the guy in OP's pic? He's kinda hot.

He's Danish actor Pilou Asbaek, R483.

^^^^Sorry, I meant R482.

He's married but the gossip is that he and NCW had some wild times on location...Not with each other, they're both straight, but they partied hard.

This is the first I'm hearing that NCW parties. I thought he was pretty straight-laced by Hollywood standards,

I thought they partied with Momoa.

I just read that George R R Martin was supposed to write 1 episode per season. The fat lazy fuck only managed 4 in total.

I'm guessing NCW is straight-laced as far as the younger single guys in the cast and crew, but that just means he's careful. If we read about Alfie Allen getting plastered hanging out with Madden or Kit Harington, it's no big deal. At least it wasn't back when Kit was still single. But if we read that NCW was hitting on women, out clubbing with that crew it would be unseemly. So NCW seems to hang with the slightly older, married guys, and no one pays much attention since they're either Danish or some other Eastern European workers. All of them are on location for months at a time.

[quote]why the fuck isn't Varys doing his job?

Varys has been in exile. His network of child spies in Westeros is gone.

The season is short and full of plot holes.

[quote] I just read that George R R Martin was supposed to write 1 episode per season. The fat lazy fuck only managed 4 in total.

Well, tyhat was the arrangement HE wanted. So if he wrote fewer that was his decision to make.

I'm glad the series is ending. It's been around too long and all of us have been speculating on the characters and their journey, and what we think might happen. Over time that stuff takes on a life of its own. I have to wonder if there is anything D&D could have done to make people feel satisfied and comfortable. I think there is a lot of anxiety among fans based on how invested they are in various characters. Some will never be satisfied. And having said that, I will also say that the writing and the plot suffers, and the writers have fucked up a great bit of TV> Not enjoying this season much at all.

I’m enjoying it. I do think expectations are too high, and a series this vast and expansive is bound to disappoint as it winds down. It doesn’t help that every viewer seems to have projected and written her own version of every character’s “best” ending, and so, yeah, it’s bound to disappoint a lot of people. This is a fantasy series, after all. As great as it has sometimes been, it’s not Hamlet or Macbeth, so just take it for what it is. It’s ridiculous to hate it just because it isn’t exactly what you want it to be.

Given how many major characters are still alive with just 2 episodes to go, is a satisfying ending even possible unless there’s a major bloodbath?

Actually, R495, there's about the right number of characters to divvy up the seven kingdoms and form a new royal government. Sansa gets the North, Gendry gets the Stormlands, either Tyrion or Jamie gets the Westerlands, Sam gets the Reach, Jon gets the Iron Throne, etc. Two out of three Lannisters have got to go, obviously, but other than that I don't expect another blood-letting.

I would actually argue that they should have let more major characters live until the Battle of Winterfell, because the amount of Plot Armor at work in that episode was absolutely ridiculous. Time after time major characters were shown going down under a flood of zombies, but no worries, the Plot Armor saved them again and again! There should have been more deaths, they should have saved some mid-level characters until then and had a proper bloodbath.

So sick and tired of hearing about Sansa getting Winterfell. Could someone bludgeon her with a club, please?

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NORTH R497????

You and me both r497. Makes a valid point at the strategy meeting about resting up before marching south but can't answer the question about how much time they'd need because she never asked any of the generals.

Why do two of three Lannister’s have to go?

Maybe the gang all go out for onion rings and as they're waiting the screen suddenly goes dark?

Sansa is smart enough to educate herself. She probably would not have thought about resting the soldiers on her own, but every time they show her she is conferring with Yohn Royce. They seem very close and he is probably schooling her . they collaborate together. That is smart. If Jon wasn't so worried about over compensating and backing Dany he'd probably agree with her. She's learned a lot form her mother and father and her brother, and from everyone one she's been around. Bad & Good.

I feel like the only way the masses will be satisfied is if they kill everyone off. I'm sorry, but that is so cliche at this point.

[quote]Why do two of three Lannister’s have to go?

House Lannister is going to be wiped off the map because karma.

Sorry r502. Sure she's conferring with Royce but she doesn't think to ask him a follow up question: how long do they need to rest? A week? A month?

I like a theory I read elsewhere, she had no intention of sending the army of the North to fight with Dany. She would procrastinate and postpone because she wants them around her to keep the north independent. (Kinda like pulling a Cersei) But she wasn't quick enough to come up with a valid excuse.

Actually the whole discussion was annoying. Cersei is wildly unpopular, Dany is gaining allies (Theon's sister, Prince of Dorn), Cersei is forking out a ton of money every day the mercenary army she hired sits around . They could have waited her out.

R505 you need to write the last three episodes.

What is this NCW gossip?

Wait until you hear my idea that Cersei kills Jaime, r506.

r506 I hope she does, r508. I love Jaime and want him to survive with Brienne but Cersei killing him would be far better than them dying together as lovers.

r469 Oh, man, Ed Sheeren. They may as well have brought in Lana Del Rey.

Dull episode, and was that some hackneyed acting, maudlin writing, or both?

I think the showrunners were great at adapting the books but when they ran out of original material, they floundered. They knew what the end looked like in a basic form but their tendency was to write for tv, trying to combine its massive popularity with wrapping up all the storylines. Plus I think they're exhausted from managing hundreds of characters and crew in at least three countries. It will be a shame if they screw up the ending because that's the first thing people will remember.

[quote]It will be a shame if they screw up the ending because that's the first thing people will remember.

What the hell are you talking about? They have already fucked up everything. This season has demolished the entire series.

[quote]House Lannister is going to be wiped off the map because karma.

Would that not require three dead Lannisters?

This season? I really liked the day before the battle episode (Brienne getting knighted) and the battle episode (yes it was too dark to see, the battle tactics were wrong, too many name character s survived against the odds but it was incredibly tense and well directed AND Arya killing the NK, perfect). This last episode was pretty weak.

A good commentary.

Once they went off the books, it became a Transformer movie. All the smart characters stopped being smart, so the great calm character building scenes of earlier seasons went away. Instead of great character beats, they started relying on action and special effects. Instead of Dany plotting a smart way to take over KL, she instead turned into a brute.

Dorne is in the books though. The TV audience hated it and they cut them.

The love the scene when the starks girls kill littlefinger. It's a great dramatic and satisfying scene, but I am sure the showrunners/directors were, "oh shit, we are losing one of the best actors."

Right now, I would say that Lena and NCW are the best actors on the show. Putting these two together, so they can act one another is the best thing for the show.

So I was really disappointed in the Jaime/Brienne sex scene. The screen cap was hotter. The characters had a lot of chemistry but all we saw was 5 seconds, after which Jaime gave her a horrified "what-have-I-done?" look. I actually wish that Jaime's potential horror at fucking someone who was not only Cersei, but is the physical and emotional polar opposite of Cersei had been explored. Instead we got News-from-King's-Landing?-K-Bye.

I think that is what the scene is about. Cersei is better in bed than Brienne. That is way they kept on saying, but she is a virgin. That is what the audience is to believe from the scene, but I am sure there is a twist.

Both the actors were told to make it awkward.

R516, Dany has always been a brute. I actually think they've been consistent with that. She's impulsive and a control freak, if you don't bend the knee to her you're dead.

I thought the show wasn't great last season. It's had its moments this season, but everything feels very rushed.

[quote]I think that is what the scene is about. Cersei is better in bed than Brienne. That is way they kept on saying, but she is a virgin. That is what the audience is to believe from the scene, but I am sure there is a twist.

And yet he kept sleeping with Brienne for weeks afterwards. Maybe she gets pregnant? Lol! All around terribly done, especially for something between two of the fan fave characters/pairing.

NCW is pretty open about his battles with Dan and David. Wonder what he’ll have to say once the season is done.

[quote]Both the actors were told to make it awkward.

Is there an interview with NCW or GC about the sex?

This is maddening, and it won't end well for Dany. I can't watch it anymore, if she gets killed like the spoiler said.

Dnd is saying Jaime left because he is obsessed with Cersei. They are conveying that on the scene with this sweet, but drunk awkward sex scene. I am sure there is a twist though.

The propaganda against Dany; that is in the show, is working on the audience. She is right, she should have hit Cersei when she had dragons. Olenna Tyrell was right. The male advisors in the kingdom are wrong. Their statements about her are wrong.

We have seen Dany free the slaves and care for her people by letting them petition her directly. The Lannisters are the bad guys.

Dnd are pulling off an amazing feat here, how do we get the audience to turn against Dany the hero and side with the lannisters, who are the bad guys.

"I like a theory I read elsewhere, she [Sansa] had no intention of sending the army of the North to fight with Dany. She would procrastinate and postpone because she wants them around her to keep the north independent. "

What, because she's so eager to feed them through a winter that may last 20 years, after the economy of northern Westeros has been devastated by war and there's no food for sale closer than Essos? Hah! Really, they covered this in GRRM's history-of-Westeros book "Fire and Blood", where it said that during a serious winter any man at loose ends during a winter will turn soldier and find a war to fight in further south, so he'll be fed, and so he doesn't have to eat up anyone's food stores.

Seriously, it makes absolutely no sense for Sansa to want to keep a huge army around eating her stores, and it makes no sense for her to be suddenly all keen on an independent North. The North gains little from independence, she should be focused on getting Cersei off the Iron Throne at all costs, because as long as Cersei is alive she's going to try to kill the Starks. But then, Sansa would have to admit that her best and only defense against Cersei is Danerys, because like everyone else, the writers have suddenly made Sansa into an idiot.

I totally disagree with you R526. She has always been a narcissist, the only difference is that the show is finally acknowledging it. I remember way back in the IMDB days around S2 people already hated her. Dany only does things for her own benefit to feed her enormous ego. I want the Starks to win it all.

R524, stop being a shithead by trying to spoil.

[quote]because like everyone else, the writers have suddenly made Sansa into an idiot.

Sansa has always been an idiot since the very first episode. It's a miracle that she's still alive until the end.

I was reading freefolk and twitter reactions and there’s a general delineation: straight guys identify with Tormund, and gay men indentify with Jaime!

R530, that makes sense. Tormund = smelly lunkhead who can’t get the girl. Jaime = handsome, glamorous, prefers the evil diva Cersei to the nice girl Brienne.

R524 here, sorry girls, wrong thread. Bye now.

R522, Jaime and Brienne sleeping together for weeks? It's only been a few days since the big battle. Arya still has a black eye.

Re Sansa feeding the army of the North. Well I assumed it meant they'd all return to their home castles? Like Royce would go back to the Vale. Northerners were already preparing for the long winter before they moved to Winterfell and Cersei hasn't shown any inclination for her army to leave KL.

I'm surprised that straight guys don't identify with Jamie, because he's living a typical straight guy's life - wasting his potential and chasing after a toxic woman.

But then, he's too smart-mouthed and witty for the average straight guy to identify with.

It makes sense to me that Sansa would turn on Dany first, and then Cersei. In previous seasons, Sansa has shown that she would rather stick with the Devil she knows, like Littlefinger, over the Unknown, like the Lords of the Vale. What Sansa does know about Dany is that her father murdered Sansa's grandfather and uncle, Dany has set people on fire who don't agree to bend the knee, Dany prevailed over Jon so that Jon gave up his crown for her (which eroded Sansa's power base in the North), and if Dany takes the throne, Sansa would never be able to defeat her, because Sansa can't fight dragons, which means that Sansa's family is once again at the mercy of the Iron Throne. The fact that Jon is marching South into danger is an example of the power of Dany. Yes, Dany came North to help fight the Night King, but the Night King wasn't cold in his grave (so-to-speak) before Dany was playing the game by legitimizing Gendry. Game on.

So if Cersei can destroy Dany first, that works to Sansa's benefit. Sansa is familiar with Cersei - she knows how Cersei thinks, and she knows Cersei won't risk sending her troops North during the Winter, for fear of the troops meeting the same end as Stannis. That gives Sansa a comfort zone - time to think of a plan, time to recruit back Northern houses like the Glovers, and no dragons to worry about. However, if Cersei falls first, Sansa has no comfort zone left with Dany. Game over.

Arya had the black eye the day she rode out of Winterfell, which is the same day that the troops started marching North and Dany left for Dragonstone.

Takes 2 weeks for Dany and troops to get to White Harbour and another to get to Dragonstone. Jaime left after the message about Dany's ass kicking so yes Jaime and Brienne had two weeks.

I so want Cersei to live and give birth to a deformed dwarf.

What amazes me about threads like this is how HBO seems to be getting a free pass when they're the ones who clearly lost control of the project. They've been letting the inmates run the institution for a couple of seasons now, They should have said no to the long delay in filming, and they should have said no to a short season.

Missandei's eyebrows really bothered me in this episode. They didn't bother me enough to warrant chopping off her head, but if they were more professionally shaped like they were in previous seasons, Cersei might have spared her life.

I'm glad there are only two episodes left. I want to this certifiable shitfest to be over with.

[R512] You are totally correct. This season is like pissing all over prior good seasons. I really hoped with the two years they would craft their greatest season yet rather than procrastinate with the story writing and give us this sh*t storm they've given us. I'm just glad that fans across the board feel the same way and there doesn't seem to be a divide between those who think it sucks and those who love it.

At this point, Dany should be riding a giant shark.

[quote]Is there an interview with NCW or GC about the sex?

I've only read Gwendoline interview about it. Nothing revelatory.

EW:Nikolaj said when you started filming you told him: “Don’t you f—king laugh!”

GC: Did he tell you that?! [Laughs] Yeah, there had to be a few conversations: “Now you’re going to need to be very professional about this…” But I care for the character so deeply so it was important to me that it was taken care of well and I believe it was.

There’s a delineation amongst straight men and gay men (and lesbians) re Tormund and Brienne - straight guys actively ‘ship’ Tormund, gay men and straight women want what’s best for Jaime and queer identifying women either want Brienne with Tormund or Brienne celibate while in en emotional brotherhood with Jaime based on mutual respect.

^ Zzzzz... 😴

And someone, please shit in R524’s mouth, and others who insist on posting spoilers (mistake, my ass) in non-spoiler threads. 💩

R381, that’s an amazing interpretation.

R381 Sansa and the Hound together? He's like twice as old as her. Might as well marry her to Davos. He's a knight as well. And not such as asshole.

Thought he might still have a wife, who knows at this point.

I like Davos. I hope he ends well.

Brienne and Jaime were together for at least three if not four weeks. And he told his brother he was happy.

I hope at some point he can complete his redemption arc. I'm ignoring spoilers about the remaining cast: Jaime, Dany, Sansa, Jon, Bran, Tyrion, Grey Worm, even Varys etc.

So I guess Gendry is heading out to Storm's End to figure out how to be a Lord? But is he really a Lord? Depends on who ends up on the Throne. If he gets legitimized he immediately becomes a threat. IMO He needs Arya. She needs to get with him. He likes her independence. He finds it attractive.

I like Sansa and the Hound together.

They ruined the show by making it sentimental and its lack of sentimentality was what made the show so distinctive. They also should have kept to the 10 episodes per season format. Reducing the number of episodes and messing with the running times all contributed to making formless what had been very tight.

I think they should have reversed the order. King's landing should have been attacked first and the Nite King and his hordes should have already been approaching the area. In fact they should have attacked it already and then all the people of the North get there. Then Cersei should have been killed by Jamie who has become a wight. I think that would have been a cool twist.

Then the anticipation of who will make it to the iron throne would have been decided after the ultimate battle against the Night King. It would have made the killing of the NK less of a let down, I think.

Agree, R551. All they had to do was produce ten episodes in both seasons, instead of shortening it like they did. They spent as much if not more time shooting fewer episodes and the run time totals about 8 hours, for this final season. It would have been much better. Of course if the plot predictions are accurate it can't end soon enough for me.

At least I won't be as sad the series is over since these last two seasons sucked. It's really allowed me to be over this show.

I prefer Tormund over Jaimie. I'd like to take a long bath with Tormund then explore every inch of his body and have great buttsex with him.

I'm blocking everyone who posts spoilers here, "accidentally" or not. I'm also blocking anyone who cuts and pastes spoilers to respond to them.

Relax, R556. There really are no credible spoilers at this point. I've been checking out the spoiler thread and it's all speculation. Someone will swear they have legit info and three posts later it's debunked. Take it all with a giant grain of salt. Nobody knows anything.

R535, I do think Arya is riding south to kill Dany. She doesn't like her influence over Jon. But I hadn't thought that she and Sansa got together to talk about this first. originally I thought, like everyone else, that she was going to finish her list and kill Cersei but killing Dany would be a great twist. If twists still exist.

Arya has had her big kill, several of them in fact, so giving her Dany makes no sense.

If I got to pick my ending I say let's go down to the dungeon and unchain Ellaria Sand who presumably is still there watching her daughter rot. Give her a sword and turn her loose. That bitch'll handle Cersei, The Mountain, and anyone else dumb enough to get in her way.

It really is amazing that the entire fandom seems to have hated the 3rd and 4th episodes, and is screaming "THIS IS A SHITSTORM AND YOU'VE RUINED THE SHOW" in unison. Have the really ruined the show? Or is it at all possible to pull another stroke of brilliance out before the end? And if they did, would the fans appreciate it as brilliant, or just dismiss it as more shitshow?

Maybe I'll come to appreciate Season 8 some day, or at least appreciate what they were trying to do. I mean, I learned to sort of appreciate the Star Wars prequel, I'm capable of forgiving a hell of a lot. In time.

Yes but the whole show is leading up to Cersei as the biggest of kills, that's why Arya won't be the one to do it. I don't think it will be Jaime either. Jon will get the big kill because he hasn't had one yet and he's who the writers consider to be the reluctant big hero.

The sad truth is, all the internet theories are better than anything the writers will have come up with. The NK should have bypassed Winterfell and attacked KL, Cersei should have shot Tyrion and Dany during the parlay, Missandrei should have looped her arms around Cersei and jumped.

Cersei should’ve been killed in s7 after blowing up the sept. They wanted to keep Lena on because D&D love her, even with Lena pretty much checked out from the show (notice she does almost no press or interviews anymore— she didn’t even show up to the premiere.)

Neither Jon nor Dany have had a "big kill", and for all the talk of princes who were promised and Azor Ahai reborn and flaming swords, neither of them have done anything individually heroic.

Of course Jon may be a dope but he did get the humans to stop fighting and take the threat from the Others seriously and Dany was reasonable enough to stop her invasion and join him, but their campaign against the Night's King was a failure overall and they were only saved by a little girl. So what the hell is the story about, if it's not about those two? I know GRRM has issues about Fantasy genre clichés, is he trying to take down the hero myth? If so, no wonder things have gone to hell in a handbasket, that's a sucky idea for a finale.

Dany's entire series arc has been one heroic event after another r563. Did you forget the all the seasons before this one, the character has had a ton of huge victories.

Keeping Cersei as a big threat and final boss has led to a lot of dumb writing r563.

The problem was at the end of Season 6, Dany's forces so out matched Cersei's it was laughable. Season 7 was a season of dumb writing in order to try to even the playing field. With Dorne and the Reach being taken out in pretty sloppy fashion. And then we now realize the show used the entire Night King plotline just as a way to even the playing field even more so Dany's forces are halved and Cersei and Dany could be on equal footing.

We've had a season and a half of plotlines just dedicated to making it a fair fight for our heroes and the Cersei big bad.

I agree, it was poor decision making.

I've started to wonder if maybe Dany will redeem herself by sacrificing herself.

The last two seasons suck in comparison to what came before, but they’re still pretty good television.

Does Cersei have to die? Couldn’t we just ship her off to a convent? For her, a fate worse than death.

There have been some good episodes in Seasons 7 and 8. The Spoils of War (S7E4) was great to see Dany finally ride Drogon into battle. That was something all fans had been waiting for, and it paid off in how they staged the battle. She obliterated the Lannister forces and we also got to see the Dothraki in battle. I also liked the episode when they killed Littlefinger.

Season 8 Episodes 1-3 were all pretty good. I didn't mind the darkness of S8E3. Arya killing the Night King was a surprise that made sense.

But where they are so obviously going now with Mad Dany vs. Mad Cersei just sucks and is too rushed. If Dany goes mad in the books, it will be a more developed plot. Oh well, I'm in it until the end. I have to see where this goes even if I end up hating it.

Look. This is basically a fantasy quest and it's similar in some respects to Lord of the Rings, and GRRM, loved him some Tolkien. So for 7 season we've been watching this, following the characters, watching them overcome challenges, succeeding, failing, ETF ever. We have speculated. Endlessly. Every single character's journey has hundreds of theories about the end of their journey, the out come, wi they live or die, succeed or fail. A lot of fans are heavily invested in their own theories. So when shit happens that doesn't comport with their ideas about characters or outcomes, they bitch. So many people wanted the Night King to survive, until Episode 6y! So many people didn't want Arya to be the one to kill him. So many people are pissed because Jaime fucked Brienne, or Dany and Jon fucked. I had to laugh at the conflict between those who really enjoyed Jon's fine ass and those who were pissed he had sex at all. People are going to bitch. So what. I love this series, and maybe I was hoping for different outcomes, different survivors, etc. but I have definitely enjoyed the ride.

I was a mix about Night King. He's a show-character and doesn't need to reach the end, but if everything White Walker/Great Other/undead/whatever ended with Episode 3, that is massively underwheming in the *writing* department.

I'm down about this season not because all my ideas or the grandest ideas out there don't seem to be happening - I'm down because what has been happening is nearly the weakest outcomes of almost all things.

I hadn't taken GOT as a show that broadly 'phoned it in' until recently. Restricted in some ways and with distinct weaknesses, sure, but not this.

Maybe Cersi will end up in a cell with the shame shame nun. I would like to see that character again.

So maybe Arya does kill Cersei, but with Qyburn's face. I can see Cersei going after Jaime. She did try to have him killed so arresting him or WTF ever would be something she'd do. And Tyrion would definitely try to free his brother. Which might piss Dany off. Really it ought to be Jaime who kills Cersei. Now if he dies with her, by some other means, I'd be disappointed but accepting. I really wanted Jaime to die last week. I wanted him to die being a hero fighting the zombies. I don't want him to get killed by Cersei. I hate her.

Jaime knows all the secret passages in the Red Keep, so I doubt he will have no trouble getting in again to take down his sister.

That area where Dany's troops were in front of the Red Keep... are those salt flats?

I'm sure both Ellaria Sand and Septa Unella (the shame-shame nun) are dead by now. Cersei wanted them to stay alive for a long time to suffer, but it's been a very long time by now.

Also, I'm not sure Ellaria Sand has great martial fighting skills. The Sand Snakes did, but she herself was not trained for them that we know of.

[quote]but it's been a very long time by now.

You know what else has been a very long time by now? Cersei's pregnancy. A lot of time has had to have passed from the Season 7 finale. Can we mention how that plotline doesn't really work.

R577, she’s having a soap opera pregnancy. Those take at least twelve months.

Jaime, unfortunately, is addicted to Cersei. He wants to save her, not kill her— even if it kills him too.

No he just said that to spare Brienne. He intends to kill Cersei (I think she'll surprise him and kill him instead) and since she's so well protected, he expects to die in the attempt. Now that he's discovered true love, he realizes Cersei must be destroyed for the good of the people.

Saying awful, but true, things to Brienne is the ol' "if she hates me, she'll be less sad that I m gone/dead." Fairly standard melodrama reasoning.

Jaime knew by telling Brienne about "the boy he threw from the tower who's crippled for life" Sansa would find out. So he really is trying to burn his bridges, even though he cares for Brienne. I think the character believes he can't out run his past, can't forgive himself for all the awful things he did. He realizes how much Cersei controlled him.

As I thought about the speech he made to Brienne, "all for Cersei" I was thinking about when he finally arrived back in King's Landing, dressed in rags, his hand amputated, with Brienne, and then he walked in to Cersei's apartment, and she ripped him a new one. No relief, no "OMG I missed you!" Nothing. Cersei has no love. None. She's truly a cruel heartless woman, and Tyrion was right, ultimately, when he said, "You always knew what she was...and you loved her anyway."

I think he has finally realized that he can care about Cersei and not surrender to the disease of Cersei. Cersei has a dominant personality. Jaime was always trying to support his family, he was the pleaser, the giver. With Brienne, it's as if he stole a little grace for himself. Truly the only woman who really does love and care about him. That would not be something someone like Jaime would easily discard.

R575, King's Landing is set on a large bay that opens into the ocean, I assume that the sand dunes were saw were a beach that abuts onto the city walls, and where Dany and her court debarked from their ships. It was a perfectly sensible location to hold the discussion, Cersei wouldn't want Dany to enter the city proper, and Dany wouldn't want to be far from her ship.

As for this season, I've fucking hated the last two episodes, but we'll see what they make of the last two.

Remember the area when Stannis attacked and then came on shore and they all fought? That's where they are standing. R582 is correct.

[quote]Jaime knew by telling Brienne about "the boy he threw from the tower who's crippled for life" Sansa would find out.

Brienne already knew about Jaime tossing Bran. It was in season 2 while Jaime was still prisoner and Cat Stark referenced it to Jaime in Brienne’s presence.

cannot ait until sunday. Less than 2 weeks for the conclusion, until we know.

R584, based on what Caitlyn said, Brienne may have suspected, but she had never actually seen Bran, and never heard Jaime acknowledge it from his own mouth.

From the beginning of this last season, actors have been saying in interviews that people are not going to like how the series ends and they're going to be pissed. Seems like that assessment is not true of just the last episode, but of each individual episode of the season.

I am late to watching, just binged everything in the last weeks before season 8, so I didn't study the show hard and read online commentary about each episode as I went along. Watching the shows in succession over a fairly short amount of time, certain GoT clichés were pretty glaring: 1) never, ever will someone travel in an open space or a wooded area without being violently accosted by surprise, and, 2) right when someone is losing a battle of any kind, someone (perhaps even someone you haven't seen for several seasons) will coincidentally and silently sneak up and kill the attacker and save the main character from certain death! It happened so many times from the very beginning, I don't know how people suddenly notice the sloppy writing just now, except that it has definitely gotten much sloppier.

Anyway, I haven't read the books and I don't have a lot of investment in these characters. I like Jaime cause he's handsome and Tyrion cause he's the only funny one. A commenter misses Jaqan. I like Arya and Stansa and Brienne but women get the shortest end of the bad writing stick on this show. Dany is hard to care about now, having gone from bad ass to dumb shit, she wastes her dragons and blah, who cares? Jon Snow is a charisma-free wet noodle, IDGAF about his glory.

"From the beginning of this last season, actors have been saying in interviews that people are not going to like how the series ends and they're going to be pissed. "

They're right so far, and I'm beginning to wonder if the actors had a better understanding of season 8 than the writers, directors, and producers.

[quote]From the beginning of this last season, actors have been saying in interviews that people are not going to like how the series ends and they're going to be pissed.

I haven’t read every interview with the GOT actors, but I haven’t seen a single one where they said anything like this. Some have said that you can’t please everyone but that’s different than saying that people are not going to like the ending.

Kit said the ending was 'disappointing', but that's about the worst I've heard from the cast.

A few weeks/months after the finale we may hear their real feelings, but they're not dumb enough to talk shit about the show. It made many of them rich and/or famous.

There’s a compilation vid on YouTube of the actors’ thoughts on S8. Look, they’re all professional and aren’t going to openly trash the show that made them stars, but it’s clear they’re dissatisfied with how this season went. People like Peter, Lena, and Nik have hinted at being unhappy with their storylines for years now to the point where Lena doesn’t even do show promotion anymore.

In time, I have no doubt we’ll get a clearer sense of how monumentally fucked up this season was behind the scenes. There’s already some chatter on twitter amongst reporters and critics about it.

Can someone link to the interview where Kit said the ending was “disappointing?” I doubt it exists.

I read that Emilia said she found it hard going.

[quote]From the beginning of this last season, actors have been saying in interviews that people are not going to like how the series ends and they're going to be pissed. Seems like that assessment is not true of just the last episode, but of each individual episode of the season.

Like when Mark Hamill gave and interview before THE LAST JEDI was released and mentioned he thought as he read, "Do you really think that of Luke?" Should have paid attention to him.

Here, R592. It's around the 2:53 mark.

NCW said it's been a harder job recently because the pacing became so much more rushed you have to connect the dots yourself as an actor and try to fill in it.

Which is a polite way of saying he hasn't liked the writing of recent seasons either.

What's so frustrating is that they went ahead and wrote all the giant checks for CGI and battles in the snow, and hiring half the actors in Ireland as extras, but they failed to shoot an hour or so of the cast sitting around drinking wine and talking--you know, dialogue, which would have cost them next to nothing but would have made all the difference in the world.

Kit is CLEARLY joking in that clip.

Thread for tongiht's episode:

The final season of the Sopranos was disappointing. The final season of Breaking Bad wasn’t very good. There’s a reason that shows end when they do.

This thread is over!