Brexit for Dummies 2: Dumb and Dumberer

Previous thread

Why any sane person would want Britain to be part of the EU is one of mysteries of the universe. While Britain's government operates like a secret state, the EU is infinitely more undemocratic -- ignore the EU parliament -- that's only the pretend bit for the masses, stuffed though with the children of the elite as it is -- the real operation goes on behind closed doors with its vast civil service, and it's as Orwellian as possible.

Exactly, r2. OP clearly knows nothing about the unaccountable and dictatorial EU. I was shocked when I found out about how the EU actually operates, and how little power any voters - or even any member countries (aside from Germany) genuinely have, or how badly it affects some British industries, and, finally how much membership costs the British taxpayer (13 Billion pounds a year - incredible).

Brexit is the ONLY sane thing for Britain to do. The unelected EU bureaucracy and their always onerous, and often plainly illogical, diktats can get FUCKED.

R3 Just watched a vid on YouTube, have you?

No r4, I've been a Brexiteer since long before the term was even invented by you fucking horrible treasonous Remainers.

If you wanted the EU to become even more democratic, you'd have to wrangle even more control out of the member states' hands and change it from a supranational confederation into a federation. So more like the US. But those who accuse the EU of being undemocratic conveniently fail to mention that its democratic deficit comes from the fact that member states retain much of their sovereignty . You simply can't have it both ways.

[quote]how little power any voters - or even any member countries (aside from Germany) genuinely have

You've obviously never heard of the concept of proportional representation. Again, if you wanted all countries to be represented in the European Parliament equally, it would be like Wyoming and California having the same number of representatives in the Congress.

R6 It's like talking to a child.

Which entity actually decides which bits of EU legislation are enacted, r6?

Also, voters have little power because the European Council (made up of leaders of democratically elected governments) is overpowered. Give the European Parliament more power and you'll have people screaming that it's bulldozing the will of elected governments.

Indeed r9.

Also, r6 and r7? Can you name the dates of the last audits on the EU accounts?

[Hint: It is stipulated in all the various joining treaties that the EU will be regularly subject to audits, so this should be an easy one for you two EU experts.

I should have continued, r9/r6. Indeed. Which is exactly what's happening now anyway in Britain. EU law's 'power' to override any vote taken in UK Parliament is a cornerstone of Brexit. You've just described a huge part of the Bresxiteer argument there.

Worlds silliest kerfuffle .

R12 I'd say it's more of a disastrous brouhaha.

If you believe Brexit is a "silly kerfuffle', r12, then you believe that Britain is nothing more than an insignificant country. It's not an insignificant country, r12, and Brexit, once it eventually goes through, will signal the collapse of the entire EU. That's why Junker and Merkel and co are fighting against it so hard.

R14 It won't signal the collapse of the EU, but it will signal the collapse of the UK.

[quote]but it will signal the collapse of the UK.

If Scotland leaves the UK Union, after a few years it come crawling back begging on its hands and knees. The English economy and English taxpayers prop up Scotland in every possible way. Pull that rug and it will be in dire straights. Nicola Sturgeon is a complete divisive idiotic fantasist.

Dream on, r15. They trotted out the remainer head of the Bank of England itself to say on the day before the EU Ref that the London Stock Market would collapse if the vote was to Leave.

Has it collapsed?

Stop your #ProjectFear nonsense. It won't make any difference. Britain voted - by a significant percentage - to leave, and Britain will leave, make its own trade deals, and thrive.

I couldn't care less about this or what happens to the British (particularly Brexit idiots) because like with many DLers (almost entirely racist and bigoted), you tend to overestimate your worth on this planet when most of you really are just fucking useless and your abilities/skills come no where near your narcissism, so why am I on this thread? Just to say that sign at the OP is hilarious.

Just say it, r18. White. You think I am white.

R19, I have no clue who you are or which post you are. I've only looked at the OP and your comment just now. And frankly, you thinking being part Indian somehow absolves you from being either bigoted or racist when I've seen how offended you people get being called "paki" or the fact that some of the most vicious anti-Muslim comments come from Hindus, is quite funny.

Last comment on this because I couldn't give a shit.

R20 Er that's an entirely separate issue. "Paki" is a thankfully pretty much now obsolete racist term that never just meant "someone of Pakistani origin".

"You people", r20???

Really?

Don't try to run cover for him, r21. He meant it.

R23 He doesn't understand anything about British society, politics or culture so thinks a British-Indian is offended by the P-word because it denotes they're of Pakistani origin. Anyone with any clue would know that's not the case. I'm not covering for anyone.

Fair, r24.

I want zealots like the ones above to have exactly the cast iron Brexit they want. They scraped a win in the vote so let them have it, all attempts to stop the jingoistic suicide will only be used as future excuses as to why their Battle of Britain Brexit didn't succeed. I didn't vote for it, have zero faith in it, it's made this country a depressing place to live as it has proven how divided we are, but we are stuck now and have to suffer it to the obviously very bitter end. As someone proudly stated above they have been a Brexiteer since before the term was coined, it's an almost religious movement for them, tied up with patriotism and love for the buccaneering Brit spirit they think is being hamstrung by belonging to the EU. This has always been a Tory issue, from before we joined, but as the argument has gotten more aggressive it has lurched even further right so you have the likes of Tommy Robinson being held at arms length by the likes of Nigel Farage. Whatever happens and nothing about it looks good ( the bulldog spirit of posters convinced of a bright future is not convincing ) the country has lost civility and quality of life has been degraded by this exhausting chaos. We seemed able to live with our differences in the past but this mess has revealed how little respect we really have for each other, Nazi is thrown about casually as an insult as is belonging to 'the Left'. All Brexit has achieved so far is to show much we hate each other.

"Zealots...jingoistic suicide....Tory....Robinson....Farage....Nasty Bulldog (and finally) NAZI

Of course you have R27 you live and breathe all this nonsense. You have cherry picked words from what I wrote that agitate you ( although you added 'nasty' ) which very succinctly proves my point about the intransigence this ludicrous vote has led to. if you had lost the vote by the same margin Remain did you would have been as angry as Remainers are, it's a stalemate, but you won by a few percent so you can now drag us all off what those of us without your mindset see as a cliff. I want a Brexit that you are ecstatic about, as far as I'm concerned the country is ruined anyway so you may as well do your worst, but I hope you will take full responsibility for the results.

OOoooOO

Did I add "Nasty" to the reams of unjustified slime r26/ r28 was trying to apply to the Brexit movement?

None of your writing bothered me R29, the whole issue, and those as aggressive about it as you, is played out, I just pointed to the fact the words you found worth comment didn't include 'nasty', you got carried away. You also avoided context, your offense at my using the word 'Nazi' ignored the fact I described the way it is now casually used as an insult,adding to today's social breakdown, whereas you implied I used it as 'unjustified slime' against the Brexit movement. You sound just the kind of level headed 'will of the people' type I want at the helm of HMS Brexit, it needs to be totally to your satisfaction, we won't hear the end of it 'til you have your way, so go for it, but as I say ,that being the case, you take absolute responsibility for the outcome

Oh it didn't bother you? I'm sure we're all reassured by the fact that you made your lengthy reply just to assure us that my writing didn't bother you .

R31 You are an archetypal Brexiteer , I have as much disdain for you and the way you think and the way you want to live as you have for me , this is the country we now live in thanks to the Brexit vote. You won, you should get to do what you want, but half the country hate it and are not on side , it is a shitshow.

Is there optimism among the Brexiteers?

Your "disdain" is what will destroy you, It's also we why we will win.

Dead at the OP. Brits really put verve into their protest signs.

R34 Talk is cheap , the ball is in your court, you won, make it work.

Well we've got a legitimate vote of 17.4 million of BOTH Labour and Conservative voters on our side. We've got stalwart Tories defecting to Nigel Farage's brand new Brexit Party, and we've got the Abominable Barbarian Trump on our side.

......and you've got what, exactly, on your side? Mealy May? Drunk Junker? Marxist Merkel?

Meanwhile, has anyone managed to come up with the date of the last audit of the EU?

I don't have a side other than common sense, the whole thing is a mess R37 and it's a mess of your making, you wanted this, make the thing work . I don't want you blaming the BBC and the Left and political correctness, I want you to have your Brexit tied up in red white and blue ribbon with 21 gun salute and a spitfire flyover, then I want you to face the consequences if it doesn't work.

Nonsense, r39. This is a mess of Remainers making.

Theresa May was an ardent Remainer. She's a lifelong of the Snivelling Service and she went to St. Hugh's to boot, which makes it worse. She was then parachuted in to PM after Cameron lost the Referendum entirely to ensure Brexit wouldn't happen. However, as with all St. Hugh's people, she will be thwarted by reality, and Brexit will happen.

The first Brexit for Dummies thread was great. As someone who does not live in the UK, I found it informative and surprisingly non-vitriolic.

Well, I'm guessing you found it fun because you have no idea what Brexit is about and you were enjoying commentary from others who also had no idea about it and somehow yet had strong ideas about it, yes?

R40 I can't make it plainer, I want you to have EXACTLY the Brexit you want to ensure you can't make the sort of complaints you just did about being thwarted. I have no doubt Brexit is a terrible idea, a tangle of bitter, cultural disgruntlement, but you won, so I want you to prove why you are so confident unhindered, but I also want none of the rants blaming 'pc gone mad' and 'loony lefties,' if it turns out poorly, as I believe it will.

Thanks for proving my point r42.

Just jumping in here to echo R35. But of course it's the Remainers who have the genius signs because anyone with an ounce of intelligence and wit is a Remainer. Similarly the anti-Trump signs are always far smarter than the pro-Trump signs.

r43. Thank you for your mealymouthed congratulations.

And with none of your well wishes necessary, We' Brexiteers will make the best of a FANTASTIC job.

Go for it R46 We'll be watching for just what a 'fantastic' job you will do, so far no good.

I see that r44 is incapable of debate. Shame.

R32 You make great points, but you simply must get the comma splicing in your posts under control!

Jesus Christ who is the Brexit shill on this thread? Block him and half the posts vanish.

Also why are you fighting? Just fucking leave the EU already and show us the paradise the UK will be now. Do it. Stop talking about it and bashing remainders, just fucking do it. Or are you a pussy ass keyboard warrior who has no say and no power so you spend your time ranting at anything and everything online and achieving exactly nothing other than an over inflated sense of self-worth? When Brexit finally happens, will you stop being such an asshole?

You'll have to bear with me on that R49. Debate is pointless R48, lines have been drawn, it's 4% shy of a stalemate, even with the shift reported toward remaining, the margin would still mean the kind of discord that has blighted life in Britain since the vote happened. You have no more hope of changing my mind than I do yours, and we've all heard what each has to say to the point you feel content to dismiss opposing ideas as ' BBC talking points' from 'Fucking Remainers'. Your debating skills are not appealing.

IS r48/R49 and all other pro-Brexit posts even British? He claims to be a Democratic voter.

- Would you do anything if Trump had Obama, Hillary, or Mueller arrested?

[quote][bold]Hillary could be arrested under the Espionage Act and for destroying evidence during an FBI investigation, so that's more realistic. And no, I wouldn't miss her for a moment if she was locked up. She gave us Trump with her shenanigans. Let her rot.[/bold]

[quote]No, Fuck you, r3, YOU and your sort, the unthinking [bold]Hillarybots with the fake "Russian Trolls everywhere!" claims, are exactly what got us Trump.[/bold] YOU are responsible. You should hang your head in shame.

[quote]r12, You are right - I am scared. [bold]I think Trump will get back in at 2020 and all we Dems can do is scream RUSSIA.[/bold] If we could get down to business, we might stand a chance. RUSSIAAAAA didn't work and doesn't work and will guarantee another Trump presidency. Yes - I am scared.

Lol totally outed as a faux "Dem" shill. Probably a paid one.

We're fucked.

The thread - Would you do anything if Trump had Obama, Hillary, or Mueller arrested? - where the Brexiter posts as a Democrat.

Well, that shut up the Brexit troll!

Yes, r52, I am British. My family live all over the world. My mother is Indian, my father is English. I was born and raised in England, Switzerland and a long period in New York. I did my schooling in London then at Oxford.

R56, I temporarily ignored you and discovered that you are half of this thread!

You've strained my interest beyond its limit R58 , and as I explained at R51 debate is futile, get back to us when you have achieved your 'fantastic' Brexit.

So you're declaring defeat, r59.

You won the vote it's your responsibility to make it work R60

Yes..... the Referendum WAS won, wasn't it?

4% is a pitiful margin R62 and has caused nothing but disharmony. 'Comfy' is a cloyingly suburban word for someone of your self heralded worldliness and sophistication, Oxford is obviously going downhill. 'Comfy' is very much from the vocabulary of a Brexiteer though, it sits well with a middle-aged to elderly outlook ,it's china ducks in flight on flock wallpaper, it's Scholl sandals. Brexiteers like to think of themselves as 'decent ,ordinary folk', 'the backbone of the country' and other prosaic platitudes they believe prove their superior values . Well, as you say, you won, whatever the margin, now is your chance , you've talked a very long and big talk, let's see what you can do to turn this pile of shit into something palatable to all.

"If the UK leaves the European Union, after a few years it come crawling back begging on its hands and knees. The EU common market, migrant workers and financial passporting privileges prop up the UK in every possible way. Pull that rug and it will be in dire straights. The Brexiteers are complete divisive idiotic fantasists."

Fixed it for you, shirieking Brexit shill at r16 (and 30 other posts in this thread).

Enjoy your Brexit -- if you can ever even get sorted out domestically what you actually want "Brexit" to look like. Any way it ends up looking, it'll leave the UK poorer, more isolated and less influential. It's already a laughingstock: the "Cradle of Modern Democracy" can't pass a basic Brexit law nearly three years after voting to do so. And where are all those countries lining up to sign favorable trade deals with the UK? I mean besides those trade behemoths Faroe Islands, Palestine and Chile...

At this point, it looks like it's the EU that actually can't wait to show the Brits the door, and I don't blame them.

We received our polling cards for next month's European elections today. Surreal, given that we were meant to have already left the EU by now.

Britain’s self-immolation began long before Brexit.

New Poll: There are more countries displaying public will to leave the EU

R67 Wait till they see what a catastrophe it will be for the UK and they'll soon make up their minds.

We'll see, r68

R67 The Express is UKIPs parish magazine, worse than the Mail and utterly unreliable as a Brexit news source.

R70 Most of the people on here posting about Brexit have no understanding of Britain and probably have never even been there.

I know R70, just international right wing nutters looking for strife. R67 is an obvious example, ironically, their broken English makes them sound just the sort of person Brexiteers want ejected from the UK.

Believe me, r67, if any country had been considering following the UK out the EU door after the referendum, the clusterfuck that Brexit has already turned out to be (long before they even leave!) has certainly been a come-to-Jesus moment for one and all.

R67, from the article: "Only 24 percent of voters in the Czech Republic and 19 percent in Italy are in of favour quitting the bloc outright."

So no, it's not going to happen.

Well, look who you are talking about, r74:

the Czech Republic

Italy

It still puts the lie to the headline in the article and to R67's point. No, there aren't countries "displaying public will to leave the EU."

Czechia a.k.a. the Czech Republic is not going anywhere. You know why? Here's why:

[italic]Breakdown of Czechia's finances with the EU in 2017:

- Total EU spending in Czechia: € 3.895 billion

- Total Czech contribution to the EU budget: € 1.282 billion[/italic]

The populist politicians in these formet Soviet bloc countries act all anti-EU at home knowing fully well they are not going to leave the EU.

We hate Brexit

Umm, sorry to burst your bubble, r70, but UKIP is a busted flush. Farage's Brexit Party, which some very prominent Conservative MP's have just defected to join, is what I assume someone such as yourself would consider the new threat.

[quote]stop the jingoistic suicide

That sums up Remainer thinking. They patronise Brexiters as being jingoistic racist little Englanders. Sure, some are. But the majority are just people who want their own parliament to be their governing body: not a lot of entitled eurocrats, particularly France and Germany, who are nothing if not pushy and untrustworthy. In term of allies, France has proven itself to be utterly two-faced and weak, only caring about its own interests, and as for Germany -- bitch, please. The history of Europe is riven with conflict. You would have to be insane to think there will not be more. No thank you. Goodbye Europe. Britain doesn't need you. You're a very VERY expensive luxury (demanding billions upon billions of payments every year), which it can well do without. It has enough people to look after.

The EU has some incredibly homophobic countries (Poland, Hungary) who are now trying to influence EU decisions. Why should Britain be a part of a legislative union that now includes rabid homophobes who only joined the EU to milk it for payouts. The EU has lost the plot when it accepted all those problematic, homophobic new members into its Parliament & Council. It’s become an unwieldy, contradictory, over-stuffed behemoth of states who don’t even share a similar world outlook. The EU tried to introduce sanctions against Hungary for being a homophobic pain in the ass, but Poland blocked the sanctions. Shows the level of strife and disharmony in EU members’ ranks. Britain has some of the best LGBT laws and doesn’t need to be part of this homophobic mess.

Amen, r80

1. The 2016 Brexit campaigns were run by organisations that had no power to deliver on the result.

2. Although the then government told the public it would deliver the result, it could not bind future government's to deliver. Although both major parties's manifesto committed to doing this, there is no parliamentary majority to do that, indeed some MPs have left those parties to fight Brexit.

3. Parliamentary arithmetic means that there will remain stalemate for some time, until a member state of the EU vetos further extensions of time. ie. France. The DUP will not vote for a general election whilst ever they hold crucial votes that the Conservatives need. Theresa May is safe in power until December, which will make for an interesting party conference. She will not be able to get her plan through The Commons. Talks with Labour won't come to anything. So more months of paralysis.

OK - I’m on the other side of the planet in a former British Colonial outpost. I don’t feel a great connection to the UK - tho I visited many times over the years - and since we were taught so much British history and culture in school - I felt a strong connection to the place - and remain very fond of it - and so many of my wonderful British friends and acquaintances...

But I don’t feel like I have much skin in this game.

Two things though:

I just don’t understand how in this day and age why any relatively small country with a medium sized population would pull itself out of the biggest trading bloc on he globe. It just boggles my mind! The advantages of being part of the EU - financially, culturally, politically - would surely seem to outweigh any disadvantages? I mean - do people in the UK really feel they’ve relinquished a substantial a punt of ‘sovereignty’ to the EU? Is it really that much? Or is it just fear and loathing the profusion of different skin colours, languages and backgrounds that people now see all over their country - and it’s one huge racist over-reaction?

Secondly - if the financial crisis in Greece several years back can have the world spiral into a recession - what the fuck will happen to us all when it’s the UK whose economy tanks? It’s far bigger than Greece - and the whole world is interconnected. I can’t see everyone else coming out of this unscathed...? (and given modern supply chain logistics - I can’t see the UK economy not tanking when they do finally withdraw!)

Would DL pundits who are far cleverer than myself care to comment? Tho maybe not the fanatic Brexiteer guy who seems to be almost Russian bot-like in his levels of engagement. I’m not seeing anything of value in your fanatic ranting and we’re hearing far too much from you!

R84 here! sorry - contradicts myself! I don’t feel a STRONG connection to the UK - but I do feel SOME connection - - and great affection! - thanks to having been taught so much about it, visited, and know so many from there.

"Brexit is the ONLY sane thing for Britain to do."

Well, that's it, r80 -- you've convinced us. All those Brexiteer "people who want their own parliament to be their governing body" must be so proud of how smoothly and efficiently Parliament is running the Brexit process. They're certainly showing up those entitled eurocrats!

And r81, if you actually believe that Brexiteers, of all people, are champions of gay rights, then you have either been living in a tinfoil-lined cave since at least 2014 where you have never heard a word uttered by Jacob Rees-Moog or the DUP, or you are literally too stupid to put two thoughts together. Either way, you have no businss posting on this thread.

Ok, r84, you describe the United States as nothing more than a 'former colonial outpost' (yes I know you are an American and don't try to hide it. Own it. Be Proud of where you're from).

So, what you are saying is, you want Great Britain to be a colonial outpost too? One without even benefit of it's citizen being able to vote on basic, life-changing policies such as immigration? Your 'colonial outpost' managed a proper Revolution and wrote a consequent World-changing Constitution. We are trying for something tenth the quality.

And, I forgot to add, r84, we'll win Brexit and THEN SOME.

Nicola....

Nicola who thinks that Scotland (entirely reliant upon English funds) will be able to separate owing to Scotland's "Oil Fields"

Oil Fields which just recently failed?

The disrespect and contempt with which the Scottish ppl have been treated by the English in the past and are still treated nowadays will do it R91

FreEEEEEEEEEEEdoMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Free Scotland. Reunify Ireland. And then have your fucking Brexit.

We are all sick of Little Britain. Go. Just go.

It may be a relatively small start, but over time if other EU nations leave and join with the UK, it could become a formidable competitor and alternative to the EU. That of course is the EU’s worst nightmare, to have a successful “West Berlin” on its border.

WTF R95?

You mean a new British Empire, this time more conveniently located in Europe, because the Brits don't seem to want to cooperate with anyone.

Absurd.

R95, you're off your meds, right?

R96 the question would be who would willingly want to be subjugated by Britain?

R95 has revealed that the UK Brexiters are pissed that the UK isn't running the show. Very entitled opinion. You were a powerful member of the EU but no longer. They don't need you, despite whatever strawman argument you come up with, and once Brexit finally happens your politicians won't have "Big Bad EU" to blame for the failing systems due to years of Tory austerity measures.

R79 I see you've deigned to bless us with some more of your Oxford 'education'. The Brexit Party is just tomorrow's UKIP, and we know how well that went, single issue politics is always doomed. Could you name these prominent Tory MPs who have defected ? The only 'name' I recall is the grotesque, queer-basher Ann Widdecombe, who retired from politics in 2010 to pursue her career as widow Twankey in panto. All the Brexit Party will achieve is the delicious prospect of breaking up the Tories. The international status you claim for yourself may mean you don't even have a vote, but if you do and If there are enough turds like you in the country to nag this mess to its depressing end ,then Brexit is the toilet down which we must all be flushed. Your kind created the chaos we now suffer, the onus is upon you to sort it out. As I say, I want the hardest, meanest Brexit possible, one that will please the most miserable Brexiteer , I also want those same people to guarantee they will take full responsibility for the outcome.

R80 You clutch your pearls at Brexiteers being labelled as jingoistic little Englanders, then proceed to prove yourself as just that with your cranky rant about France and Germany. You couldn't sound anymore archetypal if you were speaking from the Eastbourne Pensioner's Bowls Association club room.

What no one in the current thread has mentioned is that ALREADY 1 TRILLION dollars of assets have left Britain for the EU in the wake of the Brexit vote. How idiotic does anyone have to be to believe that that will be it? Of course there will be a flood of other assets leaving Britain. You have a market of 70,000.000 people vs a market of 300,000,000+ people.

But as an American, I can't lecture the British brexiters on their stupidity - because look at who is President in our country......

[quote]New Poll: There are more countries displaying public will to leave the EU reply 67

[quote]We'll see, [R68]

Only Trumpsters want Europe to fail.

What is that to you when you don't live in Europe and don't have a passport from an EU country?

R102 Current shitshows in both countries are motivated by the same negative forces, Trump = Brexit = narrow minded reactionary thinking.

R88 - R84 here! Nope - not American at all. Think Southern Hemisphere.

I’ve been thinking about Brexit a lot. Trying to get in the mindset.

I guess it’s similar to how I feel at times to Britsin’s Relationship to Oz. We are still a Constitutional Minarchy. The monarch supposedly has no real power here - BUT before any election - whoever is currently in charge has to go to the Governor General and kinda get permission. He(so far only a he) is the Queen’s representative here. And that really pisses me off. And the fact that back in 1975 - I was a child - but it’s a huge deal in Oz political history! - the then GG sacked the democratically elected Prime Minister and his party - and put the opposition party in charge until and election could be called.

FUCK THAT!

Sooner we are a republic the better. Britain had no right to influence our political destiny in this day and age.

Is how the Brexit people feel about the EU?

But dies the EU have such draconian powers over the UK?

Sorry - R105 here - typo! Does the EU have such Draconian powers... NOT Dies the Eu...Lol!

R105 That is certainly the way Brexiteers see it ,often foaming at the mouth about 'unelected Brussels bureaucrats ' dictating to Britain, so your Oz comparison is emotionally valid ( tho the Brexiteers would be incensed if you rejected Her Majesty ). The best comparison is still Trump, same motivations based on same prejudices. Brexiteers have their go to subjects. Fishing rights are a big Brexit deal for instance, and quoted as unfair, but detail is always scant , but Fisheries make up a miniscule part of the GDP anyway and as such not worth this mess. Immigration is the hottest issue, although in many areas where immigration is high Brexit was not popular, but it's the reason many voted. Basically the whole thing is an emotional issue, tied up with patriotism and our history as a sovereign nation, rule Britannia , Nelson, Churchill, Thatcher etc. Old people and hooligans are Brexit through and through, sadly they will always come out in droves if the question has a reactionary bent,' Bring back hanging?' would have them as excited as Brexit, I'd also be nervous if gay marriage had been put to a public vote. We keep being told we are in trouble because we haven't listened to the people, now we know why we didn't listen, many of them are fucking idiots . Your fears of a worldwide slump thanks to Brexit are justified but Brexiteers will sweep this aside as their heads are full of patriotism and 'gut feeling' about how correct they are. They have seen the EU as the boogeyman for decades, encouraged by the Daily Mail etc via stories on bent bananas being outlawed by the interfering EU and other ludicrous nonsense. It's been a depressing place to live since this vote and promises to stay that way into the future, we are divided and openly hate each other, as seen in this thread.

[quote]widow Twankey in panto

Thanks for that.

So, the UK hasn't left yet, but it is being openly dictated what they can or cannot do....

The Express, far from being the 'Parish paper for Brexiteers', has for the last year been run by an ardent Remainer who is passionately pro-open borders.

And the Daily Mail has been taken over by Arch-Remainer Geordie Greig. All the other papers are openly Remain already, so Brexiteers have no "parish paper".

Bullshit R10 R11 find a pro remain story in either of those ass wipe rags, they are both Brexit incarnate as is the shitty Telegraph and the Sun .They pander to Brexit zombies like you as if there lives depended on it, which they do as far as income goes.

You have no idea what you are talking about, r112. Murdoch is an arch-Remainer (his kids have openly campaigned for it). His Sun is just as pro-Remain.

And the Telegraph is ULTRA Remain - just like its proprietors the Barclay Brothers. The Telegraph is the conservative house organ and (like most conservative MP's) has never been for Brexit.

Show me a pro remain story from any of those rags moron R113

R113 Is the Brexit shill who claims to have gone to Oxford, it was obviously shut the day she went.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R113 is a fucking idiot R116 All the papers they said are pro Remain are total propaganda for Brexit , Oxford was definitely shut the day she went!

The Sun and Mail seem pretty pro Brexit here too R113, you really are very badly informed or a clumsy liar, probably both.

And here's an example of the Telegraph showing how 'ultra Remain' it is ( and getting in a twofer with a kick to right wing nemesis George Soros for good measure ), why do you insist on commenting when you have no grasp of the subject R113 ?

R113 doesn't seem to have a grasp on anything much R119 The Mail headline linked at R118 was from 2016 during the editorship of legendary Brexiteer Paul Dacre, the ludicrous pro Brexit drivel by white van man Littlejohn linked at R116 is from April 23rd this year when the Mail was under the editorship of 'Arch Remainer' ( according to R111 / R113 ) Geordie Gregg, who was clearly having a very Brexity day when he commissioned that piece! All the papers dopy R113 has referenced as pro Remain are absolute Brexit foghorns. I believe you are an epic fail R113. Back to Oxford with you, if they'll have you, you may learn something this time.

[quote] A bitter turf war is raging on the Brexit Wikipedia page

I can imagine....

The result of the local elections in England and Northern Ireland are considered a backlash against Brexit. The Lib Dems have more than doubled their number of council seats. Makes you wonder how differently things would be going if Labour had a solidly pro-Remain leader.

r122 Wonderful news! May still doesn't get it, of course:

[quote]May says results show voters want main parties to 'deliver Brexit'

I wanted to bang my head against the wall when she said that, R123

"May says results show voters want main parties to deliver them from Brexit chaos."

Fixed it for her.

The Tories have now officially lost more than 1,000 seats! Labour have lost 100. When will May and Corbyn get the message?

r126 Oh, she got the message loud and clear, she just interpreted it the wrong way.

I'm beyond annoyed with the hardcore Corbynistas now. Even if you believe Corbyn is the Messiah, you have to admit that he has not done enough (or anything, really) to capitalise on the Tories' implosion. He has to take some responsibility.

R123, but Corbyn doesn't get it either. He said something similar

I want to meet the person that wrote that sign in the OP. That is fucking brilliant and hilarious!

The sign actually understates the foolishness of Brexit, R130. Geri had four UK number one singles after leaving the Spice Girls. For someone with no musical talent whatsoever, she had a good run. Brexit WISHES it was Geri Halliwell.

[quote]Labour MPs say they won't back a Brexit deal without a people’s vote

Finally!

A second referendum is a wonderful idea for everyone wanting to stay in the EU.

The politicians will NEVER agree on language for a referendum. That would take far longer to decide than was eaten up by rejecting Theresa May three times. King George will be on the throne before they ever come to agreement about referendum language.

That's the problem, R33. A second referendum seems to me like the only way out of this mess (and seeing how poorly the Tories and UKIP performed in the local elections has given me hope that Remain would win). But what are the chances of this incompetent government getting their act together and deciding which options should be on the ballot paper? Would it be another Leave vs. Remain referendum, or would a selection of deals be put forward?

[quote]Corbyn says second referendum could be 'healing process'

Inching ever closer...

[quote]A second referendum is a wonderful idea for everyone wanting to stay in the EU.

Exactly, so it provides no solution for completing Brexit. The UK’s best hope is for the EU to push it out of the nest.

There's no clear mandate to complete Brexit because no one understands what "Brexit" entailed when it was put up to the voters. So of course now the leavers can't decide themselves whether the result of the referendum meant staying in the customs union or not.

Corbyn should push for a hard Brexit deal with May, subject to a confirmatory referendum, where the other option is to remain. That would solve the whole problem.

[quote]Exactly, so it provides no solution for completing Brexit.

Um, that's kinda the point. There is no good Brexit option, as has been made clear by the events of the past couple of years, which means that the only genuinely good option is to remain.

I disagree with the idea of governance by referendum in principle. And as a practical matter, trying to shape referendum language to all the potential options means no option is likely to achieve a majority

Theresa May will start the process of leaving office in the first week of June.

SNP Commons leader Pete Wishart recently told the government benches: “To call this a zombie government would be to show massive disrespect to the brain-eating living dead, and the purgatory that we will now endure is acquiring a semi-permanent nature.”

Amen.

So that's it. Boris will be in office in no time.

[quote]Boris will be in office in no time.

Then he will stop posting on DL and people will stop calling him out for it.

My mum went to buy a McFlurry in Edinburgh today and they wouldn't sell her one - because Farage was holding a rally nearby! I am being deadly serious, that really did happen. The police asked McDonald's not to sell milkshakes or ice cream in case Farage got one thrown at him like Tommy Robinson did.

Why is that McDonald's problem? Nigel Farage is an odious man. If he does not wish to be assaulted, he should not go out.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The picture in OP's analogy falls apart when one considers Dusty Springfield had a successful solo career after having been in The Lana Sisters and The Springfields.

One could also consider Diana Ross R147 but the comparison in OP's pic is not with those superstars , it's with lucky-to-have-a-career-at-all Geri Halliwell and given the shambolic , woebegone Brexit process it seems a more accurate one.

As Twitter is pointing out, Farage now looks like he's just been on pornhub

Farage and his Brexit party are going to win BIG in the European elections. The Tories will be decimated. Theresa May doesn't really care, does she? Her orders have been clear from the beginning: don't let Brexit happen. Now the people will have their revenge.

Great revenge R150 cutting their own throat.

There's speculation that this BI is about Boris Johnson, but wouldn't it be fun if it were about Farage?

(The original source, Popbitch, is a British site, and you have to register to get into it).

If it's Boris or Farage, R152, absolutely none of their supporters would care.

Labour's Mary Creagh MP says there are rumours that Theresa May will resign tonight. I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, there will be a certain symbolism to her resigning the day before the European Parliamentary Elections - which, if she'd pushed her deal through, we wouldn't even be voting in in the first place. It would just highlight how much she managed to screw up during her time as prime minister.

May could resign tonight at the earliest and Friday afternoon at the latest. Andrea Leadsom’s resignation from the cabinet a few hours ago is a clear sign she’s up for the job.

Look how many resignations May's government has had in comparison to previous ones (in a much shorter time span):

If you're a Remainer, here's a website that shows you how to vote tactically in your region to maximise the chances of a pro-Remain party winning:

That’s a waste of time R156. The Brexit party will win overwhelmingly. It would be like Democrats voting Republican in NYC. I know several Conservative voters casting votes for the Brexit party as a protest vote. And I know several Labour voters doing the same.

R157 haha there's no way on Earth the Brexit party will win overwhelmingly. Especially in London.

You’re obviously not paying attention, R158.

We're paying attention R158, the country has gone to shit thanks to Brexit and the misery it has brought, the fact 'the people' are still enthusiastic about it is depressing, but if there are that many turds who want it , that is the toilet the country must be flushed down.

It seems like Brexit has already happened for some: "EU citizens in UK complain of being denied right to vote"; "Agata Patyna was disgusted to be told she should vote in her own country."

It’s stupid that radio programs in the UK can’t discuss politics today because people are going to the polls.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]Agata Patyna was disgusted to be told she should vote in her own country.

Seems reasonable.

R164 = troll

R164 seems reasonable she was disgusted, you mean?

Here's a fairly insightful take on the Brexit mess, in response to OP's original post.

Yes, R167. We all knew this would happen back in June 2016. I'm not defending May - she's been utterly useless - but the reality is that there is no one who could have made Brexit work.

According to the latest polling by YouGov, a majority of Europeans think the collapse of the EU is likely in the next 10 to 20 years. The UK is smart to get out now.

YouGov is British right? A think tank or something like that? So there goes the credibility of whatever the say...

It was just stated on the BBC that many people who voted Remain voted for the Brexit Party because they hope to force a second referendum.

R171 How does that work?

R169 Brexit may become one of the main causes of the EU's collapse, if it collapses.

I voted SNP. I'm not voting Labour again until they get a competent leader.

An 81year old veteran was apparently milkshaked this morning at a polling station for being a Brexit supporter. What’s next, acid?

R175 It was some yoghurt he'd knocked onto himself and someone put it on twitter saying he'd been milkshaked, you complete cretin.

Prove it, R176.

So if May announces she’s resigning tomorrow she obviously will have to stick around for the leadership contest. But will she be dealing directly with Trump when he visits? He’ll no doubt trash her relentlessly starting tomorrow. She won’t be making many public appearances post-resignation, anyway, will she? I really don’t see her standing side by side with Trump and that Eastern European whore.

R178 Couldn't the alleged deputy PM, what's his name, take over in the interim? Much cleaner than having Teresa loafing about the place as a target for Trump.

It’s looking more and more likely she’ll resign tomorrow but there’s speculation that Parliament could “change the rules” and somehow have her removed from office.

R164 = Trumpster

- May 7 - N.Y. Lawmakers Move Closer to Allowing Release of Trump’s State Tax Returns

[quote][bold]Can you imagine if Republicans had been able to seize Hillary’s medical records after her stunning physical collapse during the campaign? That’s the next step in the escalation.[/bold]

She's going on the 7th of June. She cried at the end of the announcement.

Future of Britain in this photo. Gods help us all.

Yeah the EU will collapse and it will be because of this shit. Talk about the tale wagging the dog.

The UK will collapse and that will be because we left the EU.

After Frexit and Nexit.

May’s speech made me want to puke. How dare she bring up Sir Nicholas.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Yeah, maybe bringing up Grenfell wasn’t such a great idea.

How I learnt to loathe England

On the morning of 24th June 2016 the middle-class parents at my children’s school were huddling together in shock over the result. One or two were crying quietly when a working-class mother I knew walked up to a well-to-do mother who had been canvassing for Remain. “OUT! OUT! OUT!”, she shouted as she wagged her index finger. Then she walked off in triumph, back to her working-class friends at the other end of the playground.

Over the years, I had learned she was a warm person, yet on that day something stronger burst out. She had used the referendum to try to smash that expensive middle-class toy called the EU and it had worked. At last, for the first time in decades, those who felt like life’s losers openly defied the winners, and carried an election. Now her country would have £350m a week to spend on the number one worry for people like her: the NHS.

I’ve seen a good deal in England which suggested that, just maybe, not all was well with the collective psyche—the in-your-face binge drinking, the bookies stoking gambling addiction on every high street, the abject but routine neglect of public housing which went undiscussed until the Grenfell Tower fire.

But that scene on the morning after the referendum encapsulates my disappointment with the country. Not only the division, but also the way it had been inflamed. Why would you allow a handful of billionaires to poison your national conversation with disinformation—either directly through the tabloids they own, or indirectly, by using those newspapers to intimidate the public broadcaster? Why would you allow them to use their papers to build up and co-opt politicians peddling those lies? Why would you let them get away with this stuff about “foreign judges” and the need to “take back control” when Britain’s own public opinion is routinely manipulated by five or six unaccountable rich white men, themselves either foreigners or foreign-domiciled?

That's a really interesting article above. So sad how people are such willing fools.

True R191, Thanks for posting R190 . R167 link is also right, Brexit is a poisoned chalice, it is undeliverable. There is no compromise that won't result in gnashing teeth, to give in to either 'side' will incur the wrath of the other. The Brexit or bust gang would be delighted by no deal, would gleefully swallow the economic fallout and will adore it if Boris ( the likely next PM ) does a Trump and stomps around insulting 'EU elites', showing what a force we are, just like in Empire days. However, that would incense/depress as many voters as those who orgasm at the thought of it, the reverse is true if the Brexit zombies don't get their way. There is nobody who can solves this mess, even if we had access to the most brilliant political operators, which we plainly don't. We have the choice of a deadbeat group of self-servers , so riven with ugly ambition they can't wait to try and clamber up the greasy pole, even now, when it is covered in shit and mired in the fatal quicksand of Brexit. May was arrogant enough to think she could finesse things and be remembered as the heroine who brought the country together, but she limped off , snivelling into oblivion, a pathetic figure. The next grisly character will not have such an auspicious departure as the situation will really start to bite for whoever is in the hot seat when it really starts to hurt the country. The best thing any politician ( of any stripe ) could do right now would be to park their personal ambition, let this shitshow reach its nadir and then work towards repair and an attempt at understanding why this unholy fuckup was encouraged in the first place.

So what are the take-aways from the European elections?

That the public are dumb R193. I wouldn't feel safe in handing them the last word on anything important, if gay marriage had been up for public vote, I don't think it would have gone smoothly and hanging would be back in a flash if 'the people' had their way.

I still think Leave would win in a second referendum. Mostly because the Remain campaigners will be even more insufferably smug and condescending, especially if they pull that Now You Know shit.

R195: So in other words reality hurts the Leavers fee fees so they vote the same way again? Probably right. They want to be lied to, just like the hardcore Trump supporters.

You and your fellow Brexiteers should be ashamed of yourselves R195 , you've totally fucked up this country, it's been miserable living here since the shitty vote took place and there is no sign of improvement for the future. We all hate each other now, and the dozy dreams of a return to Empire will not happen, thanks pensioners and hooligans.

That the Brexit party and position is as strong as ever.

Sorry, I was replying to R193

'Strong as ever' R198, meaning half the country hates Brexit and the kind of people who voted for it. You'll get as much peace with your Brexit as Brexiteers would have given the Remain side had they won by the same insipid margin. Sweaty, rabble rousing, piss artist Farage would have been ranting all over the place, well, right back at ya. Personally , I want the hardest most vicious Brexit possible, one that would delight the most committed Brexiteer, that way they can't blame it's inevitable failure on being thwarted by 'traitors'.

[quote] That the Brexit party and position is as strong as ever.

The truth is that your life will not change at all after Brexit. I say that because I believe that so many of you who voted for Brexit did so out of a personal discontent with your own lives. Do you think that disrupting the lives of the immigrants will make your life better? Do you think that depriving the young people of Britain of the opportunities to study and work abroad will make your life better? It won't. Five years from now your life will be exactly the same. Who will you blame then?

Actually, it's weaker than ever, R198. The Brexit Party and UKIP got just under 35% of the vote. The various Remain parties got just over 40% of the vote. The remainder went to the Labour Party and the Tories, both of whom were divided on Brexit.

This election was about Brexit and neither of the two traditional parties took a clear stand. Both saw a massive drop in their support, at least partially because of that divide. Parties with clear Remain or Leave positions took about 75% of the vote, of which a majority went to Remain.

Oh God, really, R202? Those statistics don’t prove ANYTHING. The turnout for a second referendum would be much higher. It would be enormous, as a matter of fact. Get a clue.

And such a massive turnout, were it to occur, would almost certainly result in a defeat for Brexit.

Get a clue.

If enough turds think like you do R203 and want Brexit, then that is the toilet the country must be flushed down. You are wrong, history will prove you so, the rest of us will never forgive you.

I don’t give a fuck about being “forgiven” or not. There was a referendum and Leave got a majority. And it must be honoured. It’s called DEMOCRACY, dickwads.

Actually, it doesn't need to be "honoured" at all, since it was a non-binding resolution. Nor is the UK a "DEMOCRACY." Look it up before you post again and make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Notice how the Brexit supporters have stopped trying to extol the benefits of leaving?

Of course you don't R206 , you are a shameless Little Englander. You will get no satisfaction from your shitty Brexit, history will confirm your thinking as backward and the sentient among us will never forgive you, whether you give a fuck or not. As I said I want the meanest, hardest Brexit possible, one that would suit your kind, that way you lot won't blame 'traitors' for ruining it for you , you've fucked up this country and you should take full responsibility.

Does self-determination need to be extolled?

Lovely sound bite R210 but we need more than that empty glibbery to make ruining the country worthwhile, it appeals only to foreigner-fearing 'Britain First' twats, the ones who think they are the backbone of the country, but are nothing of the kind.

The UK does, in fact, have self-determination, R210, nor will Brexit change anything significantly there.

I repeat: Notice how the Brexit supporters have stopped trying to extol the benefits of leaving?

You have to give R206 some credit for the persistent trolling throughout this thread, must have been quite a wrench to come here all the way from 4chan.

I’m no troll, bitch/R213, just someone who happens t believe in referendums being implemented. And I’m obviously far from alone in my views. Pay attention, moron, and maybe it’ll make sense to you.

Meanwhile, the rest of us don't want harmful referendums implemented, when such an implementation will cause long-lasting damage to the country and cause churn throughout Europe. And that's even more true when the referendum in question should never have been put to a vote in the first place and is non-binding. Oh, and that's not even taking into account the many already-broken promises by those who pushed hard for the referendum to "win."

Pay attention, moron, and maybe it'll make sense to you.

R214: Looks like somebody needs a spanking with that attitude....

For the Dummies: another explanation of why the Brexiteers' wet dream of a no-deal Brexit is bollocks.

You're welcome (although it's clear that you'll never accept the truth).

R217/cretin, your link is meaningless. Pay attention. A no-deal Brexit is widely reported today to be placed back on the table.

R26 - with you. Spot on. Not going to bother reading the rest of the thread.

R218, was there any need to be gratuitously rude?

A non binding resolution that never clearly spelled out what the exact consequences were...unless you count trolls.

Or I should say terms.^^

R218 You sound like a pissy Daily Mail bore, reactionary gays like yourself are disturbing as is your lust for Brexit. I'm glad you are vastly outnumbered here, it's clearly not your natural home.

[quote]A no-deal Brexit is widely reported today to be placed back on the table.

Uh-huh. And it was "on the table" under May, as well. How did that work out? If the UK wants to shoot itself in the foot, then sure, go for a no-deal Brexit.

Thank you, by the way, for confirming that you didn't read the article and don't understand anything about this issue.

It's kind of adorable hearing this Brit extol the virtues of the EU.

Some great commentary from the Balloon Juice blog:

the lying shitweasels behind the campaign to Leave scattered like pinstriped cockroaches the second the result of the vote came in and have been deliberately vague about the actual reasons for and tangible benefits of leaving the European Union ever since. We were supposed to Leave back at the end of March, but didn’t, because three years after the Referendum not a single person involved with negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU had been able to find a version of Brexit (fucking awful name, sounds like a breakfast cereal designed to soften painful stools) that doesn’t put a bullet through the head of the national economy and (much more importantly) leave them and their political party holding the bag when everything goes 28 Days Later.

...

Thirdly, the Return of the Frog King. Nigel Farage had fled Britain like a scalded pervert when his wildly profitable grifting operation cum Russo-American disruption campaign accidently stumbled upon enough bubbling racism to ‘win’ the Referendum, leaving his UK Independence Party to topple gracelessly towards its inevitable destiny as the home for really, really racist bastards who aren’t young or tattooed enough for the English Defence League.

...

Brexit lost this election, anyone who says differently is just lying.

Watching the results come in I went through the same stages every time. Starting with “Dammit! How did Brexit win?” to looking at the change from the last election and realising “Brexit just sucked up the UKIP vote and less than half of the Tories, that’s not surprising” and ending with, “Hang on, they’ve just got the old UKIP MEP slots and taken one or two from the Tories, nothing has really changed”. In an election where the pro-Brexit side was calling on their voters to send a message…. That didn’t really happen.

...

Fewer people voted Brexit Party than took the time to sign the recent petition to revoke Article 50 (the bit of EU law that lets a member nation leave the Union) and cancel the whole thing. Pro-Brexit wankers were jeering that ‘only’ 6 million or so could be found to sign a petition to end Brexit. They couldn’t even get that many to the polls for an actual vote. Shove that up your “Will of the People” and smoke it you bunch of reckless feckers.

...

The Brexit Party is celebrating its ‘big win’ right now, but for all their bluster there’s no escaping the cold, hard reality that they’re just UKIP with a million or so extra disgruntled Tories tacked on. Farage is babbling about them being the inevitable winners of a future General Election, but he said more or less the same thing about UKIP back in the day and they never amounted to more than a fart in a bathtub when the real contest came around.

Suck on this, ostriches:

r227 Deplorable.

Poor Sam — black candidate — thinks he stands a chance in racist Britain...

The Balloon Juice blog is really convincing.

R227 'Suck on this' indeed I hope that's all you ever get to suck on, right wing queens like you deserve ostracism.

Hahahahahaha, R231. I ain’t exactly “right wing.” I loathe Trump and can’t wait for the total destruction of him, his family and the GOP. However I’m able to believe at the same time that Brexit should happen because it was voted for at a referendum. And referendum results must be carried out.

R232 That's very by the book of you, I assume you voted for it as you are so committed to the result. I'd put it in terms of the referendum being a suicide attempt and brexiteers being ungrateful at being talked off the ledge.

Just when you thought this Brexit shitfest couldn't get any messier, in saunters Trump-endorsed Farage to complicate the matters some more. This is truly a generational mess that no general election will be able to sort out. The second referendum is going to become inevitable once things reach the boiling point. Of course by then, even more old leavers will have kicked it so the result should be even more decisive.

Absolutely R234, if there was any doubt about the toxicity of Brexit , you only have to look at those who support it.

“By the book,” R233? Fuck off. You don’t know me. And you don’t know the millions of people who agree with me.

R233 I know what they are like, miserable, old reactionary cunts and you fit that bill perfectly.

This thread makes me think of this thread.

Do you really think at all though R238?

R236 You and the 'millions who agree with you' have provided a very explicit picture of the kind of people you are in your support for this crap, you are not mysterious. Are you American? You quote your wish for the destruction of Trump and the GOP as evidence of your decency, if you are American then shouldn't you shut up and accept the result of the American vote in the way you want Remainers to roll over for the shitty referendum ? If you are British then you are just another run of the mill reactionary, moaning about PC gone mad and blaming loony lefties and SJW s for all the woe in the world. You claim to hold your nose over Trump, but agree with him on Brexit and approve of his doppelganger Farage. You seem confused but flatter yourself as having an open mind. Millions may agree with you ( as millions don't ) but here I'm delighted to know you are very much in the minority.

Haaaahaaaaahaaaaahaaaa.

That’s all for now.

Will be back in November to gloat.

Again confirming your Brexity character R241, as I say, not a mystery. You'll be no more welcome here then than you are now, but I'm sure that's a position you are used to everywhere.

Fucking love it! Groveling to Trump. Groveling to America. 😂

Adolescents forced to grovel 😅

Worked with Brits here and there. Frustrating blow ups over their laziness.

They're just so damned lazy and half ass everything. Fug features don't help matters.

R245 I don't think it's laziness; it's just that for some reason they think they are automatically entitled to better jobs, that anything menial is beneath them. Especially, the millennial generation in Britain is extremely arrogant, believing the lies they are told by their elders: " Britannia Rules the Waves" and all that...

Slightly off R246 , millennials are the same everywhere, middle-aged and old Brits, those who look at the world through red, white and blue specs, are responsible for Britain heading for the dustbin. I can see why Americans find Brits lazy, the work ethic is definitely more intense in the States , but having lived in both places, I found the work/life balance preferable in the UK. As for your enjoyment at Brits groveling to Trump R245 it is a tragedy indeed that Britain has painted itself into such a corner, a tragedy equalled by America voting such a monster to pre-eminence in the first place. Also Britain doesn't have the monopoly on 'fug' as can be seen from your 'first' family.

[quote] millennials are the same everywhere, middle-aged and old Brits, those who look at the world through red, white and blue specs, are responsible for Britain heading for the dustbin.

I don't agree. There is a special brand of entitlement that comes with the old 'British Empire' mentality the new generations in the UK are buying into. I saw it while interacting/working with students at Oxford university. In Europe, on the continent, you don't feel it as much, because they are a lot more realistic when they see the future of their country and therefore their own future opportunities. But the way Britain has brushed their past colonial history under the rug considering they are not as big as the US and they do not have the resources and population to isolate themselves in the manner they are choosing to do is very surprising.

R248 It doesn't sound like you got a complete picture, if you are basing your thoughts on Oxford students R248 you may well have seen the fogey-ish throwbacks those kind of universities attract. They revel in tradition and past pomp, they have a huge stick up their arses and are not typical of British youth. You are spot on however in your view of Britain's folly in over-estimating it's own importance. The young are our only hope, it's chiefly the old and middle-aged who are dragging us down. It's a malady the world is suffering from but Britain is sadly leading the field.

The younger generation is the UK is very much Remain. They understand and appreciate the huge benefits EU membership has brought them and the country as a whole. It's the older generation who voted Leave.

We've witnessed a massive division between the older and younger generations over Brexit and it's caused huge problems. I know of several families who've had screaming rows over it (mine included) along with some who've fallen out completely about it. The younger generation see their parents who voted to Leave as betraying them and their futures with their outdated xenophobic ideas of British superiority.

[quote] if you are basing your thoughts on Oxford students [R248] you may well have seen the fogey-ish throwbacks those kind of universities attract. They revel in tradition and past pomp, they have a huge stick up their arses and are not typical of British youth.

R249 You are missing the point. They run the country (in government). In fact, by what I've seen they run everything; you name the sector in industry, there is an Oxford graduate running it. They are the future leaders of the UK and especially after Brexit it's going to get worse.

[quote]The younger generation is the UK is very much Remain. They understand and appreciate the huge benefits EU membership has brought them

That’s a problem, when a generation makes political decisions based on how big are the benefits they receive.

R252 O right. So no-one in history apart from the British who voted Remain have ever voted for something that might bring them some benefit?

You idiot.

Whereas you prefer the older generation of unthinking, kamikaze Brexit voters who want to tear everything up on the spurious grounds of their gut feeling and dislike of foreigners? R253 is correct, you are an idiot.

I spent about two years living and studying in London some years back. Time and again, I was shocked at how unaware British people were about how small the United Kingdom really is. They often would not believe me when I explained that the flight time from NYC to London was only 90 minutes longer than the flight time from Los Angeles to NYC. Nor would they believe me when I explained that the physical size of the UK was roughly the same as the physical size of Michigan and that each of 11 individual US states are physically larger than the UK.

'No. That can't be. No.' Sometimes they would accept it if I insisted. Sometimes they would just get angry at me. But only rarely did they seem to already know these basic facts about their country. It just was not taught. To anyone. I am reminded of that experience every time I read more about this Brexit insanity.

In fairness, how they have squeezed a population that is 20% of that found in the US onto an island the size of Michigan is incomprehensible to me, so it cuts both ways. But it does illuminate the class system there. Hold on resolutely to whatever bit of space you have, if you are lucky enough to have any at all.

R255 Your meandering thoughts don't add up to a point. You expect British people to have an intimate knowledge of US geography? How is any of what you said related to the class system?

Every time there's a thread about people visiting the UK as tourists American posters express how surprised they were by how small the UK is but also, strangely, by how large London is. What odd conclusions about American society will you be coming to about that?

R256 scores low on reading comprehension.

The point is that British people lack an intimate knowledge of their own geography, as it relates to the outside world. It was more than adequately stated.

That ignorance, spread far and wide across the United Kingdom, helps explain the otherwise inexplicable Brexit campaign.

R257 There are many factors to the current British malaise R255 , mostly nostalgia based, taking a justified pride in a rich history and twisting it into ignorant arrogance. However America is no fount of world knowledge itself. 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' applies very aptly to both the UK and America.

R257 and you score low on making a concise point.

How is a British person not knowing about the vast distances between places in the US proof that they have no knowledge of the geography of their own country? I don't know how or why any Brit would ever be expected to know how our country compares to the size of Michigan. That fact might mean something to you but it's useless trivia to us. We don't need to know where our country lies in comparison to the size of US states.

Yes. You do. You need to pay exacting attention to detail if you want to pull your country out of a large trading and political bloc like the EU. You need to know before you choose to support such a radical step.

See the photo OP posted at the top of this thread.

While I think his argument is overly simplistic, I do agree that I think the UK is fucked and we're at the point now where we have to pick the lesser of a number of evils.

R261 We'll have to hit the rock bottom the pensioners and hooligans are gagging for before we can piece things together in time for the next set of pensioners and hooligans decide to ruin life again.

“The States” = non-U

I do wonder if the current crop of empowered globalized youths, horrified at the audacity of the older set to hold on to their own beliefs, realize that one they will be this older set.

And that the next few sets of young people will be increasingly disgusted at the beliefs they hold and will want them to die in a corner quietly.

Those old cunts and their archaic views are ruining the world right now R264 I hope the 'empowered globalized youth' bury them like they deserve.

R261 I liked this opinion piece! The writer is clearly anti-Brexit but I agree with him that basically the UK is fucked but delivering some form of Brexit seems to be the only way to stop an even further political shift to the right.

R251 Of course there is, and always has been, a ruling class, Cameron's cabinet was stuffed with old Etonions. The old boy's network is just as endemic in the U.S., but that's a different issue to how the youth of Britain vote. They are overwhelmingly against Brexit, whatever the future leaders studying at Oxford are about.

Y'all may have Donald Trump to thank for killing Brexit.

He wants to negotiate a piece of the action from the NHS. There you go. Donald Trump running your health care? That won't play well in Jolly Olde England.

Nor should it. Get that Trump Baby Blimp to the next Remain rally!

I don’t understand how it would even be possible for the NHS to be “on the table”. Isn’t it part of the government? It would be like saying the FAA or IRS is on the table. It doesn’t make sense.

It makes sense if the Tory government's initial desire was to privatise it

Here's a good take on the current Tory Brexit mess:

Very quiet round here, where are the Brexitards making the case for their Brexit? Having suffered a shit-stirring visit from Trump , you'd think they'd be Gung Ho. So twisted that the brain dead pensioners and hooligans reject the Frogs, Spics and Iti's of the dreaded EU for any trade deals ( you know what filthy foreigners are like ) to throw themselves on the tender mercies of Trump and America, they just know he will treat Britain failrly, look at his impressive track record of fair play and business integrity. It's a tough choice, they love the NHS but they love racism a little bit more and Trump is the best, we only have Nigel 'telling it like it is' about immigrants. It will be worth selling off the family silver if the 'right people' get the boot, isn't that so pensioners and hooligans?

[quote] Very quiet round here, where are the Brexitards making the case for their Brexit?

They are in a stupor as they wet themselves with anticipation over the new and improved Trump National Private Health System and the world's greatest and most beautiful Irish Border Wall.

Thanks to Trump for his big mouth. It is now abundantly clear that the plan has been that once the UK extricates itself from Europe, it will be dismantled and sold, piece by piece, to Corporate America and its investors? Can't wait for the Trump Tower of London, Central London's only luxury putting green and bodacious titty bar!!!

Brexit Party lost Peterborough local election, which they had their rancid sights on, very glad not to have to suffer more gurning from nasty, sweaty, piss-artist Farage.

The default exit is on October 31st, and the new PM will let that occur, even with no deal. What’s left to discuss?

Bullshit R275 , you right wing cunts would have been crowing like mad if Brexit was going well. The last 'default exit' was April 12 the one before that was March 29, as we know they came and went, why should October be any different? Discuss that cunt. I see you deplore 'Khan's London' so you are a transparent right wing wanker. Your thinking is very much in the minority here, an ironic position, as we know how much you despise minorities.

You've certainly got a lot of excitement to look forward to on Oct. 31, r275.

It's going to be a shitshow no matter who's at the helm, assuming it even happens. And it couldn't happen to a more deserving group than the people most likely to be held responsible, including such wankers as Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. I look forward to their creative explanations as to how they really aren't at fault.

I'm not saying that it will be a complete disaster or that we're seeing the end of the UK or anything stupid like that, but there is little doubt that a no-deal exit will be horribly painful for months while all of the details gradually get worked out. And lord knows what they're going to do about Ireland or Scotland.

I also think that the Brexiteers are going to be unpleasantly surprised about how little the UK is needed and how other countries just won't be inclined to save them from their own folly. They'll be in a horribly weakened bargaining position when it comes to trade deals, which also won't help.

When all is said and done, a new equilibrium will be reached, Ireland will be a mess, Scotland may well vote to leave the UK and rejoin the EU, some multi-national corporations, particularly in the financial industry, will move their headquarters out of the UK, and the UK's economic growth will drop by a percentage point or two. The extravagant promises about jobs, economic growth and money? None of that will come true.

Hahahahahaha!

A no-deal Brexit is coming, morons.

Now 120000 conservatives will pick the new PM of Britain.

That's how fucked up the country is.

[quote]A no-deal Brexit is coming, morons.

I love how you're laughing about the damage such an event would do to your country. If you really do get that "no-deal Brexit" you want, we'll be laughing at you next year.

Boris Johnson:

[quote]“I am not aiming for a no-deal outcome, I don’t think we can end up with any such thing. But it is only responsible to prepare vigorously and seriously,” he said.

[quote]Johnson refused to say what he would do if he had not secured an improved deal in time for 31 October – or whether he would resign if the deadline were not met or no deal was prevented.

A profile in courage....

Weren't the Brits the ones whose 'soldier style' was just to walk in a straight line and get picked-off like sitting ducks?

They're doing it again.

R279 You are one miserable queen, the only people I'm aware of that support Brexit are stupid and/or reactionary, add gay to that and you get you.

The Eye-tyes!

Haven’t heard that since Douglas Gold in “Triangle at Rhodes.”

More analysis from the Balloon Juice blog commenter cited above, this time on the candidates for the Tory leadership. Regarding Boris Johnson:

[quote]What can be said about this splatter of half-boiled chicken fat in a swollen pig’s testicle that hasn’t been said before? Eton thug and Oxford vandal, fake journalist and television stereotype, a chillingly solipsistic gush of relentless, cynical, self-serving deceit obscured behind the carefully crafted personae of a bumbling, stumbling but ultimately well-meaning upper-class buffoon.

[quote]His entire career has been littered with the same accusations and the same excuses. He lies, he cheats, he gets caught out, he shambles off denying any ill-intention and leaves the mess for the proles to clean up. Relationships, jobs, political appointments, it’s all the same to this slovenly fuck. Boris wants, Boris takes, Boris makes the Press laugh and gets away with it. It’s all an act, a big old joke that the Media thinks it’s in on, because more than anything they want the Boris Show dragging eyeballs and clicks to their product.

[quote]The fact that the Tory Party membership seems to want this shallow creep in the top job is as clear a testament to their callous imbecility as you can imagine, and the fact that a majority of Tory MPs (supposedly) would rather see virtually anyone else (other than Esther McVey) get the job is possibly proof that the Parliamentary Party hasn’t entirely lost its senses. That’s why so many other candidates have jumped into a race that – if you listen to the Tory membership – is Johnson’s to lose, and why Johnson himself has been so loath to step outside the bubble of his well-paid column in the Telegraph; a lot of Tory MPs can see the disaster he represents galumphing towards them and will try to do whatever it takes to make sure doesn’t take them with him. OTOH, a lot of other Tory MPs just see how much the Media love him and hope his talent for dodging responsibility for multiple failures can be widened to include the Party as a whole.

[quote]On Brexit, he’ll promise everything to everyone, lie through his teeth and dissemble, deny and fudge as much as he can, but in the end it all comes down to the only question that matters in that weaselly little mind of his – what’s best for Boris? The EU have openly stated their disdain for him, so there’s no way in hell he’s going to get any concessions, and his threat to withhold the £39 billion in ‘divorce bill’ payments owed by the UK to the EU until a satisfactory withdrawal deal is reached is clearly smoke and mirrors designed to impress the gullible.

[quote]That’s for payments up to 2020, so a large chunk of it has already been paid off. I can just foresee Johnson coming back to London after a humiliating failure to charm/threaten the EU and declaring he’d forced them to give us a rebate, so we had to pay less, so victory! The Media would lap that bullshit up like a dog with vomit.

Much more on the other candidates at the link.

The link above also has some info about the subsequent voting rounds.

My favourite description of Boris Johnson is "300 years ago he'd have died leading a cavalry charge into an active volcano... If Syphilis didn't get him first." The next PM of the United Kingdom God help us all.

At least the craven, pathetic, delusional Tories will be getting the trashing they deserve from this shitshow.

Too bad so many other Brits who knew better will be getting what they don't deserve, just because they're stuck on the HMS Britain with them.

This whole Brexit shitshow is owned by the Tories. Cameron only created the referendum because he thought it would kill off the UKIP threat and strengthen the mainstream right wing. It changed nothing for the Tory fortunes, UKIP morphed into the Brexit Party ( the 'respectable' racists being hypocritically uncomfortable with the blatant racism of the T Robinson UKIP ) and the Tory division is as bad as ever. Johnson will be a terrible PM and have no more success than May, but he's the kind of freak the old fuckers in the shires love, as they do Rees Mogg and Widdecombe, they see those types as typically British, of the old school, like themselves, none of this politically correct nonsense. They see Brexit now as a panacea, they think that post Brexit their arthritis will be cured, church bells will ring once more and they can toast the absence of foreigners with warm beer, it'll be VE day every day!. It's very sad that pensioners are such a sure fire vote because they end up dictating the course of events with their outdated ideas, their time on the planet hasn't invested enough of them with wisdom ( as they believe ) so much as atrophied thinking, you only have to look at DL's elderly curmudgeons railing against change to see what this looks like.

[quote] It’s all an act, a big old joke that the Media thinks it’s in on, because more than anything they want the Boris Show dragging eyeballs and clicks to their product.

Just like tRump and the US media. And nothing will change for the 2020 election.

Succinct and right on the money, R290. Great post.

Here we go: another spot-on analysis of the current state of the Brexit mess, and it ends with a brilliantly insightful description of Boris Johnson from his Eton headmaster, over 35 years ago.

It's a little long, but well worth the read!

Rory Stewart is out of the PM race. He was the only opponent for No Deal to have a serious chance of going through. You Brits are so screwed.

r294 It truly is crazy, but I think they need to hit rock bottom before they come to their senses, and Johnson as PM will provide exactly that. They still think a bully of a PM will be able to extract more concession from the EU. Once that delusion is fully shattered, they'll finally start thinking seriously about that second referendum. And the further away we are from that first one in 2016, the fewer old Leavers there are to vote the second time around.

A new YouGov poll of Tories, with results that have to be seen to be believed:

"For each of the following scenarios say whether you would rather Brexit did or did not take place, even if Brexit led definitely to the scenario becoming a reality.”

Scotland leaving the United Kingdom: Do Brexit = 63% Drop Brexit = 29%

Significant damage to the UK economy: Do Brexit = 61% Drop Brexit = 29%

Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom: Do Brexit = 59% Drop Brexit = 28%

The Conservative Party being destroyed: Do Brexit = 54% Drop Brexit = 36%

The only scenario where they would not move forward with Brexit?

Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister: Do Brexit = 39% Drop Brexit = 51%

They're as bad as the Trumpsters.

Interesting, r296.

r296 Incredible. They're basically zombies at this point.

More analysis from the Balloon-Juice commenter. Very long but very entertaining.

[quote]Yes, it’s week two of the Contest of Charlatans and this evening the four remaining losers, plus Boris Johnson’s knuckle-cracking spokespeople, will once again ask the Parliamentary Party to throw their support behind their clear-sighted and not-at-all-ludicrous candidacies for the job of fucking up Brexit and everything associated with it in order to drag the corpse of the Tory Party a little bit further towards an inevitable General Election.

R296 Of course Tories are as bad as Trump, they are right-wing, we can see what right-wing thinking does to the human soul from the ugly, reactionary fossils that post here.

It’s Johnson vs Hunt now.

So we have the guy who compared the EU to the Soviet Union versus the guy who compared it to Nazi Germany. Fantastic.

You Brits are SO SCREWED. A No-Deal Brexit is inevitable.

In case you don’t believe me...

I feel bad for the young people in the UK. They'll be missing so many study and work opportunities in the EU because of a generation that will die out in ten - twenty years.

^^ missing OUT on

[quote]They'll be missing so many study and work opportunities in the EU

Because there are no good universities in the UK?

^^ Oh, boy. That's one of the stupidest things I've read on DL in a good while.

If you want more stupid, you need to read R95 by the same poster.

Told ya so.

Dear, we get that the Tories are dumb enough to drive the country off the cliff. What we've been telling you is that such an occurrence would be self-evidently stupid and have long-lasting negative consequences for the UK. If they are indeed dumb enough to allow this to happen, they'll be dealing with this shit for years, at least.

The one good thing about this is that it looks like the chickens will come home to roost with Boris Johnson taking the fall. It couldn't happen to a more deserving individual. Too bad the rest of the country will be the ones dealing with the consequences.

I want a no deal Brexit so bad, but I won't believe it'll actually happen until I see it.

R310 = Ann Widdecombe fingering herself.

No, R311, get used to us. We’re out there on both sides of the Atlantic. And there are a lot more of us than exist in your poor deluded mind.

We are aware of your existence Ann R312 , you are ruining the world with your backward delusions, keep fingering yourself you dried up old twat.

R313, you need to wake up and smell the Sanka. Hunt and Johnson both favor a no deal Brexit. So do large numbers of Brits.

Dear, nobody is disputing the existence of such low-information voters, determined to bull forward with a ridiculously ill-advised plan that will damage those very voters so determined to make it happen. We're simply pointing out that it's a ridiculously ill-advised plan that will damage those very voters so determined to make it happen.

It’s classic fear of the unknown. People fearing leaving would do well to have someone literally hold their hand and tell them, seriously, it’s going to be okay.

Your response R316 is classic stupidly. There is nothing unknown about all this, its part of a right wing populist madness that is wreaking havoc throughout the world. You should be well aware of this given what is happening in your own 'Murica, but I get the sense all of this sits quite comfortably with you.

So you advocate lying to their faces R316 ?

Why not, r318? The Brexiteers have been doing it since the referendum campaign kicked off -- why should they stop now?

And when the shit starts hitting the fan after October 31, they're going to claim that it's all the fault of the inflexible, vindictive, doomed EU that refused to give the UK the fair Brexit agreement they would have deserved. Deserved, I tell you!

You don’t know that, R315. You just don’t.

Yes, we do, R320. We really do.

R321, you’re lying. Or deluded.

You are the minority here R322 ,R321 sums up the mess your kind salivates over with complete accuracy.

I'm neither lying nor deluded, R322. We have the data; you can choose to ignore it if you wish, but a no-deal Brexit would impose a hardship on quite a few people, including many of those supporters, and would impair the UK's economic growth.

And that's not even considering the disaster at the borders, the fate of Scotland, and the horror that might well return to Ireland.

You’re not paying attention, then, R324. Johnson is determined to have the UK leave with no deal.

That has nothing to do with my point, R325, since I'm not arguing whether the UK will or will not leave without a deal. Here it is again, since you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension.

[quote]We have the data; you can choose to ignore it if you wish, but a no-deal Brexit would impose a hardship on quite a few people, including many of those supporters, and would impair the UK's economic growth.

[quote]And that's not even considering the disaster at the borders, the fate of Scotland, and the horror that might well return to Ireland.

As for your claim about what Johnson is "determined" to do, that seems to depend on who you listen to and which stories you read, as Johnson has made multiple claims about what he wants.

Like I said, Boris can't quite make up his mind:

[quote]Boris Johnson, the favorite to become British prime minister, said the chances of Britain leaving the European Union without a deal are “a million-to-one” even as he repeated his promise to leave the bloc without a deal by the end of October.

And, of course, this still has nothing to do with whether a no-deal Brexit is a good idea or not.

Some Conservative MPs appear to be deluding themselves.

[quote] However, five Conservative MPs, some of whom are supporting Johnson, told Business Insider this week that while they and significant numbers of their colleagues would be prepared to bring down the favourite to replace Theresa May as prime minister, if he pursues a no-deal Brexit, they do not believe it will be necessary.

[quote]"Boris is not currently a prime minister, he's a leadership candidate," one Remain-voting Conservative MP told Business Insider.

[quote]"What he does as a prime minister will be very different from what he does as a leadership candidate. Very few Conservatives believe he would actually be stupid enough to [force a no-deal]."

Personally, I think that he's largely backed himself into a corner and that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

An overwhelming majority of his party want no deal. Johnson will go along with it to placate them.

And it will still be a horrible idea with far-reaching negative results.

You don’t know that, R330.

Yes, R331, we do know that. I know you're having trouble understanding that and even more trouble accepting it, but it happens to be quite true.

I recently stumbled on this really interesting guide to the economic/ trade ramifications of Brexit.

TL;DR: Brexit is going to FUCK UP the UK's economy no matter what happens now -- the only damage-limiting option seems to be May's agreed-upon exit plan, but that looks to be DOA.

Whatever Britain does to temporarily deal with this mess they've made, they'll be back in the EU within a fairly short period of time.

Dream on, R334. The EU will leave the UK twisting in the wind for at least five years.

Jeremy Hunt seems inclined to take the UK out without a deal.

So, R336? Nobody has denied that the Tory leaders are morons.. That still has nothing at all to do with the fact that a no-deal Brexit would impose a hardship on quite a few people, including many of those supporters, and would impair the UK's economic growth.

And that's not even considering the disaster at the borders, the fate of Scotland, and the horror that might well return to Ireland.

The UK economy has suffered its first quarterly contraction in seven years. Just one more quarter of this and they're technically in a recession.

England Prevails!

Trump has turned against Theresa May just before her time as prime minister ends! All that time she spent sucking up to him and this is what she gets in return.

r340 Incredible. Just incredible that he can still surprise me after all this time. Absolutely no political decorum whatsoever, domestically or internationally.

That wasn't really because of May; it was because it was leaked what the current UK ambassador thought of Trump: inept, insecure, and incompetent. Trump lashed out at May as well as that ambassador.

UK Ambassador's comments.

Bye bye Sir Kim.

What a fucking awful situation. Boris totally threw him under the bus.

r344 I think Boris actually believes Trump is going to bully Merkel into giving them a better withdrawal agreement and/or be kind to them in the UK-US trade deal negotiations, if only he brownnoses him enough.

Completely ignoring the fact that a) trade deals - especially thorough ones among big countries - take years to negotiate, b) Trump might not be president anymore by the time those talks conclude, c) it has to pass the House, which will probably remain under Dem control.

Ah, good points, R345. I’d buy that as Johnson’s motives.

So how damaging was last night’s Panorama to Jeremy Corbyn. It certainly seemed damaging to the Labour Party in general.

Merkel has been seen shaking from the thought of Boris becoming PM and forcing a new deal with the EU. Caught on camera.

Chancellor Philip Hammond announced on a Sunday morning political show on the BBC that he would resign on Tuesday because he won’t work with Boris Johnson who’s clearly going for a no deal Brexit.

How is this Tory election saga still going on? Just elect the fucker - any fucker - already and get it over with. Feels like years since they started this process.

Love the Irish border's Twitter account:

I hope you morons who insist a no deal Brexit can’t happen and won’t happen listened carefully to Johnson’s speech just now. A no deal Brexit SHOULD happen and WILL happen. Brexit must be delivered because it was VOTED FOR by a majority of UK citizens.

I've never listened to either but didn't Geri Halliwell's solo debut album sell more in the UK than the Spice Girls third album? She certainly got more mileage out of the singles.

R352, why do you keep insisting that we "morons" are "insisting" that "a no deal Brexit can't happen" when most of us have acknowledged that it can; we just know that it's going to be a horrible idea and a shitshow, something you have consistently failed to acknowledge.

So your little rant still has nothing at all to do with the fact that a no-deal Brexit would impose a hardship on quite a few people, including many of those supporters, and would impair the UK's economic growth. And that's not even considering the disaster at the borders, the fate of Scotland, and the horror that might well return to Ireland.

So no, moron, it SHOULD NOT happen. If Johnson is stupid enough to make it happen (and I'm perfectly willing to concede he is), then it's all on him.

R354, wake up. A no deal Brexit is happening, followed by Scotland gaining independence and Ireland reunifying. Enough of this UK bullshit. It lost the empire in the last century.

You really cannot read, can you, R355? Do please let me know where I ever claimed it would not happen? And do please let me know which statements of mine were incorrect?

As for "Ireland reunifying," I'd suggest the person who needs to "wake up" is you.

Well, R356, the distinct possibility of the UK breaking up was mentioned today on the BBC News Channel discussion show Dateline London. So it’s much more likely to happen than you think, dumbass.

LOL... You *really* can't read, can you? I never said it wouldn't, dumbass, which is why I wrote, "Do please let me know where I ever claimed it would not happen," a phrase that you apparently had real trouble understanding.

R357 is something of a broken record:

[quote]You Brits are SO SCREWED. A No-Deal Brexit is inevitable.

[quote]In case you don’t believe me...

[quote]Told ya so.

[quote]R313, you need to wake up and smell the Sanka. Hunt and Johnson both favor a no deal Brexit. So do large numbers of Brits.

[quote]You’re not paying attention, then, R324. Johnson is determined to have the UK leave with no deal.

[quote]An overwhelming majority of his party want no deal. Johnson will go along with it to placate them.

[quote]Jeremy Hunt seems inclined to take the UK out without a deal.

[quote]I hope you morons who insist a no deal Brexit can’t happen and won’t happen listened carefully to Johnson’s speech just now. A no deal Brexit SHOULD happen and WILL happen. Brexit must be delivered because it was VOTED FOR by a majority of UK citizens.

[quote]R354, wake up. A no deal Brexit is happening, followed by Scotland gaining independence and Ireland reunifying. Enough of this UK bullshit. It lost the empire in the last century.

[quote]Well, R356, the distinct possibility of the UK breaking up was mentioned today on the BBC News Channel discussion show Dateline London. So it’s much more likely to happen than you think, dumbass.

A “war room” has been assembled to move full speed ahead for a no deal Brexit.

You dolts who insist it won’t happen really do slay me.

The GB Pound is used in 5% of international trade, which seems like an awful lot! The US is 50% and EURO is 30%.

Wouldn’t the Northern Irish object to union with the South? How possible would it be for the North to declare independence, instead? Then they could rejoin the EU, eventually.

[quote]You dolts who insist it won’t happen really do slay me.

There is that broken record again. Note how he's not actually arguing with anyone real. He's just mindless regurgitating his talking point over and over and over and over and over and over again.

It's posters like this that make me think that maybe, just maybe, there's something to this paid troll story.

It looks like the Awesome Foursome will just be the Gruesome Twosome (England and Wales) by 2022.

Boris Johnson: Majority of One!

He’s already over.

No, he isn’t, R365. He still has the strong support of his party. He ain’t going anywhere.

R366, his “party” is an omnishambles. Many are rumoured to be defecting to Lib Dems or as independents. They hate his cabinet. His government does not have the support of parliament. You have no idea what you’re talking about but I suppose you’ll just keep sticking to that until you come up with some great “blame” narrative.

Turns out bluster has no shelf life in the current state of British politics. There isn’t going to be a No Deal Brexit. He doesn’t have the votes. By the time he calls a GE he will be a minority leader in parliament. Wake up. The EU isn’t budging. Ireland isn’t budging. He will be removed by a vote of no confidence before the 31st of October. End of.

Hahaha, R367, aren’t you sure of yourself. Pay attention. Every UK media outlet is predicting a no deal Brexit.

The Sunday Telegraph’s headline is basically that a no deal Brexit is unavoidable. It’s too late for Parliament to do anything. And Barnier won’t budge.

I just watched a 3 part documentary "Inside Europe." I didn't realize Angela Merkel had so much power. The EU really screwed the smaller countries. It's all about Germany and France and screw everyone else.

EU is better off without Britain. It's been 40 years of a sour relationship. EU needn't put up with Britain's acting out after the loss of empire and status. Britain is better off trying its luck as a junior partner of the US.

Little Britain (aka United Kingdom of England and Wales) is gonna be a power to be reckoned with. hahahaha

England could secede from the UK leaving Scotland Wales and northern Ireland in the EU as successor states. England could then be a money laundering tax haven and picturesque tourist property of the US.

England could secede from the UK leaving Scotland Wales and northern Ireland in the EU as successor states. England could then be a money laundering tax haven and picturesque tourist property of the US.

[quote]England could secede from the UK leaving Scotland Wales and northern Ireland in the EU as successor states.

The problem with that is the same problem they are having with Ireland. What do they do about borders? The EU tells Scotland and Wales to take in 100,00 refugees each, they aren't going to stay in Scotland and Wales, they are going to bleed into England. Italy and Greece had this problem with the EU. Thousands of refugees landed on their shores, but they weren't going to go where the EU wanted to place them. They were headed to Germany which had the best economy and chance to make a better living. So while they were trying to figure out how to get to Germany, Greece and Italy were having to enact EU policies that didn't exist and they didn't have the resources to cope with the mass immigration.

"The EU really screwed the smaller countries."

Well, thank God the English have never done anything like that, Princess Michael at r370! Where would we be then?

Or you could be pirates, r373, take to the seas, grab the occasional island in the Caribbean or off the coasts of Asia. Like the good old days.

I'm not sure we'd really mind or interfere.

We’re close enough to October 31st that we can just wait and what happens after Brexit instead of trying to speculate. The degree of success will be what it will be.

[Quote] Or you could be pirates,

What do you think tax havens are?

"We can just wait to see what happens when they shit the bed. The degree of shit will be what it will be."

Or, we could, you know, not shit the bed.

That power cut today seemed to give a rather vivid preview of what’s to come.

A No Deal Brexit is looking more and more likely, bitches...

You genuinely cannot read, can you, R382? For the dozenth time, we're not arguing that it won't happen; we're simply pointing out that it's an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Once you get your head wrapped around that, we might be able to have a serious conversation. Nobody here is holding their breath, though, as it appears to be that your only purpose here is to spew obvious propaganda. See R363.

Fuck off, R383. You’re the one with your head in the sand.

Thank you for confirming that you genuinely cannot read, R384, and that you have no intention of having a serious conversation.

In the meantime, a no-exit Brexit is still an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I could write a bot that would supply R384's conversation here, and I wouldn't even have to make it particularly intelligent. Half of the conversation would be regurgitating his talking points about a no-deal Brexit, alternating with whining because people are picking on him. That would be all that's needed, since he doesn't actually engage with anyone or discuss actual details of how that would be accomplished or the impact it would have.

[quote]For the dozenth time, we're not arguing that it won't happen; we're simply pointing out that it's an incredibly stupid thing to do.

Perhaps it would help to use graphics to explain what you are doing.

No, there are quite a few on here who insist it isn’t happening-that somehow someone sonewhere will turn up and Article 50 will be revoked or a second referendum will be called. And that ain’t happening. Brexit will be delivered, deal or no deal. Period. End of.

Repeating R315: Dear, nobody is disputing the existence of such low-information voters, determined to bull forward with a ridiculously ill-advised plan that will damage those very voters so determined to make it happen. We're simply pointing out that it's a ridiculously ill-advised plan that will damage those very voters so determined to make it happen.

You don’t know that, R389.

LOL... You really are a broken record, aren't you, R390? Yes, we do, beyond any doubt. And so does the British government.

You’re the one with your head in the sand.

Believe everything you read, R391/dumbass?

Disbelieve everything you read, dumbass? Thank you for confirming that you're just here to play silly games and that you bring nothing to this discussion. And that you have no answer when others point out inconvenient facts to you.

Well, no answer other than hilariously stupid denials.

I do seriously wonder what happens when Boris fucks it all up and nothing but shit comes raining down. What then, Brits?

Apparently, Johnson is all set to blame the EU and members of Parliament.

In other words, he's going to lie his ass off and hope nobody notices.

Jesus, talk about Project Fear, R391/imbecile. I bet you thought there would be blood on the streets following Y2k, too.

LOL... So you admit that you have no answer for this, have done no research on this, have not seen any of the economic forecasts, and know absolutely nothing at all about this, which means that all you can do is mindlessly regurgitate your talking points. Talk about imbecility!

I repeat: You have no answer when others point out inconvenient facts to you. Well, no answer other than hilariously stupid denials. You really are the one with your head in the sand.

Oh dear, R397. Your sanctimonious outrage is quite a spectacle. Buckle up, buttercup. Heh heh.

Sorry to disappoint you, R398, but there was no "outrage," sanctimonious or otherwise, in my post in R397. It was amusement at your desperate attempts to change the subject and deny reality.

Thank you for continuing to confirm that you have no answer for this, have done no research on this, have not seen any of the economic forecasts, and know absolutely nothing at all about this, which means that all you can do is mindlessly regurgitate your talking points. Talk about imbecility!

I repeat: You have no answer when others point out inconvenient facts to you. Well, no answer other than hilariously stupid denials. You really are the one with your head in the sand.

the sooner Merkel and Marcon tell Boorish to fuck off, the better.

the trump lite buffoon can then lead Little Britain over the cliff to the delight of his moronic racist supporters

Oh, but BoJo is fully confident that Merkel and Macron are going to come around after he gives them a talking-to.

So, stop worrying, everyone!

And as long as we're not worrying...relax, BoJo & Co. have a plan for everything else, too.

Pip pip, cheerio!

And don't forget, R402: no matter what happens, it will absolutely be someone else's fault.

already happening, EU told Boorish to fuck off

BJ: "we're outta here and ireland is fucked, and our economy crashes, but the (non binding) referendum must the "respected"

The dummies are truly out in full force celebrating Brexit -- you can't make this shit up!

Well, you or I couldn't make it up, r405, but then we didn't get a hereditary place at Oxford to hone our poetry skills.

Not everyone can be a Rees-Mogg or a Johnson. That's why we can't appreciate the glory of Brexit.

I'm already hearing some Brexiteers say that if there's no deal, it'll be Remainers' fault. For fuck's sake, take responsibility for your actions.

There's not going to be a "no deal" Brexit. Johnson's already embarrassed himself beyond belief. This thing finally has a narrative. What a fool he's going to look like at the G7 this weekend. There's going to be a 2nd Ref and then a GE. Both likely without Johnson.

And once the pound rises on the news of a 2nd Ref, enough Britons will come to their senses and bring an end to this nonsense.

[quote] And once the pound rises on the news of a 2nd Ref, enough Britons will come to their senses and bring an end to this nonsense.

I'd like to believe that, but I can't. Brexiteers will accuse the pound of being unpatriotic and undemocratic.

Personally, I think there's too much ego, pride, nationalism, and, yes, racism, for this to not happen. Johnson is an idiot and he's got too much invested in this. And the polls have shown just how far conservatives are willing to go, insisting that they want Brexit even if it means Scotland leaving the UK, significant damage to the UK economy, Northern Ireland leaving the UK and the Conservative Party being destroyed. The only thing that would hold them back from Brexit? If the result was that Corbyn would become Prime Minister.

Given that they just installed Boris Johnson (!) as their Prime Minister and that the EU has already made it repeatedly clear that they have no intention of renegotiating, I don't see anyone in the UK capable of putting on the brakes. They're driving full speed ahead for the cliff, and damn the consequences. I would love to be wrong and for sanity to prevail. I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.

Wow, R40&, you’re truly delusional. A second referendum is NEVER going to happen, for starters.

agree, like the MAGAts here, the Brexiters are hellbent on destroying their country

Hey, moron/R412-your assumption that those here who think Brexit should be delivered are also MAGAts is incorrect. I loathe Trump and the GOP but feel that the referendum was a democratic event and feel strongly it needs to be respected.

You *really* can't read, can you, r413? He didn't say that they were MAGAts. He said that, "like the MAGAts here....."

In other words, they are hellbent on destroying their country, something that is confirmed by the poll cited in r410, where they are "insisting that they want Brexit even if it means Scotland leaving the UK, significant damage to the UK economy, Northern Ireland leaving the UK and the Conservative Party being destroyed."

The referendum was non-binding and was a monumental mistake, something that is widely acknowledged by politicians all parties. You don't make decisions like that via referendum.

especially when they had no idea of what "leaving" even meant at that point.

Now that the only option is the No Deal that Boorish is pushing, (even at the cost of silencing Parliament); the democratic thing to do would let the people vote that up or down.

An yes, if a No Deal exit results in Scotland becoming independent and Ireland uniting, the fools will have destroyed the UK

Does anyone think we really will leave on 31 October? Or will Brexit be delayed again? I'm not sure, personally.

Britain really will leave. Johnson’s staking his entire political career on it.

If the UK courts allow BJ to prorogue Parliament, then there will be a No Deal Brexit.

If the courts block it, then the whole Brexit effort may fall apart.

The Green Party’s Caroline Lucas said today that a no deal Brexit would make the UK vulnerable to being “acid stripped by Trump’s America.”

Stupid bitch. Talk about Project Fear.

Since she happens to be correct, I'm not sure what point you think you're making. The UK has already tried to negotiate deals with other countries and in every instance has been told that they aren't going to get any advantages. Everyone knows just how vulnerable, not to mention desperate, the UK is.

As for Trump, since the only kind of deal he knows how to make is one in which he not only wins, the other party has to visibly lose, she's absolutely correct. The UK isn't going to get anything from Trump. Welcome to the new world order.

GO BORIS!

Boris... just go.

Scotland's first minister says Boris is acting like a tin pot dictator:

Queen Consents:

She's just a gal who can't say "no", she's in a terrible fix

[quote]I do seriously wonder what happens when Boris fucks it all up and nothing but shit comes raining down. What then, Brits?

they'll "own" those pointy headed bureaucrats in Brussels just like the MAGAts own the libertards here.

MGBLA (Make Great Britain Little Again)

What annoys me most is that Brexiteers have been banging on about sovereignty and democracy for more than three years now - and this move is antithetical to both.

What annoys me most is that Brexiteers have been banging on about sovereignty and democracy for more than three years now - and this move is antithetical to both.

Americans don't care about Brexit. At all.

not true, we'll be very happy when the pound goes to 80 cents

R426, don't look to the Tories and/or the Brexiteers for integrity. There is not to be found there.

He's kind of a genius in this latest move. Holy shit.

How is he a genius? We knew this would happen for months now and plans have been put in motion to deal with this situation.

cause when running for PM, he said chance of a hard exit were one in a million, now he's made it a certainty, so he's a genius (not a lying con man)

Brexit faster.

Boris abused his girlfriend. He's having no trouble abusing his country, too. Easy! Queenie rolled right over.

She can't tell him "no," but did she have to sit on her throne waiting for him to arrive? She should have hung a "Gone Fishing" sign on the palace door and hightailed it out of the country.

Ruth Davidson is reportedly about to quit as leader of the Scottish Conservatives, presumably in protest of BoJo's decision. This is bad news for the party - she's popular and, being openly gay, has modernised their image,

Nicola Sturgeon is more Janette Krankie than Angela Merkel.

I don’t think the Davidson exit will be as big a blow as it’s being trumpeted. If I were a working class Scot, and there was a general election before 10/31, I’d still vote for the Tories as a way of causing a Brexit that would trigger another Scottish independence referendum.

Brexit is long overdue.

It certainly is. Enough of this shit. The Remoaners should just shut the fuck up already. The hysteria over tiday’s events really expose what pieces of shit they are. He’s only doing what they’ve been trying to do for three fucking years.

Yeah, heaven forbid that anyone try to stop a disaster before it happens. And heaven forbid that anyone dare to hold Johnson accountable for his unconscionable actions. Damn them! How dare they?!

Yeah, really. How dare they? It’s an affront to the democratic process.

The arrogance of you spoiled sluts in wanting Brexit derailed makes my blood boil.

What Johnson is doing, R442? You're absolutely right; it's an affront to the democratic process.

The arrogance of you ignorant Brexiteers in wanting a no-deal Brexit which will do significant damage and offer no benefit, makes my blood boil, R443.

Go Hugh!

What's interesting is that R442 / R443 is all over this thread but is, so far, wholly unable to defend Brexit on the merits, unable to address any of the legitimate criticisms, and completely unable to deal with any of the links posted here. All he's able to post is crap like:

[quote]You don’t know that, R315.

[quote]R321, you're lying. Or deluded.

[quote]You don't know that, R330.

[quote]Fuck off, R383. You’re the one with your head in the sand.

[quote]You don’t know that, R389.

[quote]Believe everything you read, R391/dumbass?

[quote]Jesus, talk about Project Fear, R391/imbecile.

[quote]Oh dear, R397. Your sanctimonious outrage is quite a spectacle.

[quote]Stupid bitch. Talk about Project Fear.

[quote]The arrogance of you spoiled sluts in wanting Brexit derailed makes my blood boil.

Really convincing arguments there, don't you think?

Very impressive, R446/dolt.

Cool! Another moronic response to add to the list. Keep 'em coming, as all you're doing is proving my point with each new post.

The real morons are the ones here who have insisted that over 17 million votes shouldn’t be respected.

The real morons are the ones here who have insisted that over 17 million votes shouldn’t be respected.

"The real morons are the ones here who have insisted that we should stop those lemmings from diving off the cliff. How dare they look out for the benefit of the UK population!"

Remoaners are a pack of condescending malcontents. Period. End of.

Brexiteers are racist nihilists who want their toy even if it means destroying the country. Period. End of.

Gosh, online debates are so much easier when all you do is randomly sling shit and post mindless drivel, aren't they?

[quote]The real morons are the ones here who have insisted that over 17 million votes shouldn’t be respected.

respected by a PM installed with 92 thousand votes and a parliament with zero? LOL

Corbyn has been prompted to endorse civil unrest commencing Saturday.

Nice work, Remoaners.

Does anyone here have a realistic solution for the Irish border? It's been more than three years, and I still haven't heard one, but I'm open to the possibility.

yep,, union with the south, easy peasy, no borders needed

fuck the racist knuckle draggers across the sea

Boris Johnson's "Extreme Measures" to ensure Brexit. Getting rid of Parliament was just one option they are considering.

[quote]BuzzFeed News has learned that in the last few days, Johnson’s senior team — led by his chief of staff Dominic Cummings and director of legislative affairs Nikki da Costa — has explored a number of increasingly controversial proposals it could deploy depending on the success of rebel attempts to thwart Brexit. The ideas under consideration include the following:

[quote]Attempting to disrupt a Commons debate on Northern Ireland power-sharing due on Sept. 9, a day which could be used by rebels to attempt to delay Brexit. It is described by Johnson allies as a “time bomb” set for them in the final weeks of Theresa May’s premiership.

[quote]Determining whether Johnson would be breaking the law by ignoring any successful rebel legislation or refusing to resign in the event he lost a vote of no confidence.

[quote]Using a variety of mechanisms, including a potential budget, to create new Commons debates and further reduce time for rebels to act.

[quote]Using the prorogation of Parliament to “kill the bill” by rebel MPs and force them to table it again after the Queen’s Speech on Oct. 14.

[quote]Creating new bank holidays to prevent the House of Commons from being recalled during the prorogation period.

[quote]Filibustering any bill by rebel MPs attempting to force Johnson to delay Brexit when it reaches the House of Lords.

[quote]Ennobling new pro-Brexit peers as a last resort to kill any such bill in the Lords.

[quote]Exploring what the consequences would be if Johnson advised the Queen not to give royal assent to any legislation passed by Parliament delaying Brexit.

Yeah, totally democratic here.

Boris has a good chance of being considered Churchillian if he completes Brexit. He needs to have a good speechwriter working on a new “blood, toil, tears and sweat” or “this was their finest hour” speech. He’s going to change the course of history.

The referendum result must be respected. Why is that concept so hard for so many of you to understand?

Petitions and marches don’t make a damn bit of difference. In fact it only hardens the views of those it opposes. Enough already. Surrender Dorothy!

[quote]Boris has a good chance of being considered Churchillian if he completes Brexit. He needs to have a good speechwriter working on a new “blood, toil, tears and sweat” or “this was their finest hour” speech.

He's going to be considered Churchillian on the basis of speeches someone else wrote for him?

Boris is an idiot and Brexit is a disaster! That being said, I think it's a bad move for MPs and some far-left remainers to start openly attacking the Queen.

[quote]The referendum result must be respected. Why is that concept so hard for so many of you to understand?

There was no referendum on leaving the EU without a deal, therefore there is nothing to "respect". Why is that concept so hard for you to understand?

He -- or rather, Brexit -- is definitely going to change the course of history, r459.

It's going to be just as memorable as Masada, and in the same way.

[quote]Boris has a good chance of being considered Churchillian if he completes Brexit.

Churchill is remembered for saving the UK. Johnson will be remembered for destroying it.

[quote]The referendum result must be respected. Why is that concept so hard for so many of you to understand?

Because it's false. The referendum was non-binding, and for very good reason. Brexit will do enormous damage to the UK. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand?

The demonstrations tomorrow will do zilch to move the compass. And all it will do is harden the positions of those on the opposing side. They’ll see those whiney little bitches tying up streets and city centres and make them even more determined not to give them what they want.

You really do live in a fantasy world, don't you, R467?

Since you love spamming multiple threads on this topic, r467, here is the response from another of these threads:

You know, you've posted dozens of times on this topic in multiple threads and you have yet to come up with a single reason why Brexit is a good idea. You have yet to engage with the data that demonstrates that it will damage the UK's unity and its economy, that it is likely to lead to one or more parts of the UK leaving, that it will harm the very people who are loudly calling for it.

You have nothing.

If this triggers an election it will turn out even worse for remainers. Boris will get a majority to ram his agenda through.

Oh, I doubt that. If Boris were that confident, he wouldn't be resorting to these desperate measures.

Two new polls out this morning (Survation and Yougov) show Boris' numbers have INCREASED since he asked to prorogue (Survation has Tories at 31% Labour at 24% and Yougov has Tories 33%, Labour 20%). Both polls show around 60% approve of Boris' decision while support for no-deal brexit is 52 and 56%.

60% Deplorables?

Sanity returns?

All four panelists on the BBC’s Dateline London (a Brit, a German, a Portuguese and an American) agree that Johnson and his hard line Brexiteers make up in force and strategies what they lack in numbers. The German said the EU doesn’t trust Johnson’s government so won’t cede anything, resulting in a no deal. And they’ve been getting what they want so far. And this week and the coming weeks will be no different.

I hate Johnson and I'm not defending the tiny penised Trump wanna be, but there are a couple pieces of truth people are overlooking:

1) Parliament isn't being prorogued until September 13! Parliament will then return a week before October 31 to debate Brexit. There is still time for MPs to get their shit together

2) Parliament was already set to prorogue on September 13 due to party conferences set from September 14 and to October 4. This is Prorogation of parliament is adding one extra week.

3) It is increasingly obvious Johnson wants the opposition to force an election for two reasons 1) his numbers are actually up and is double digits ahead of Labour 2) He can play the blame game saying MP are trying to block Brexit, not listening to the people etc etc. Historically the party that forces an early election pays for it on election day.

R475

Due to the vagaries of the British parliamentary system, the chances of a “No Deal” Brexit are much higher than Remainers admit.

No confidence vote gives him time to postpone the vote until November 1, which means “No Deal” is implemented before a new government forms.

No Tory is going to support Corbyn, so no leadership even if they dissolved the government yesterday.

At this point the parasites in Brussels are staring at an enraged An-guh-luh Merkel promising they will break those pansy Brits, or invade! I’m

The EU is done.

It’s been over since Greece in 2013, but the madmen thought they could reanimate the corpse.

Despite the shenanigans in Italy this week, they will be next in line to leave the eurogulag.

In a moment of absent-mindedness I started to read "Boris" in these responses in the DL sense "paid pro-Russian internet troll."

In a couple of years, the Russian bear has managed to get a puppet into the White House and to initiate the collapse of the European Union. Truly masterful from Vlad who is set to join Peter I and Catherine the Great as the most revered figures in Russian history.

Conversely, Boris, Natasha, Yevgeny, Olga, Yuri, Ludmilla, Dimitry and Head Supervisor Svetlana, can finally take a break from the serf-like conditions at the troll farm to down a shot of vodka.

You hear that, r476? You're entitled to a break and therapeutic dose of vodka -- god knows you've been working hard enough for it.

But you blew it with "The EU is done". The Brexit shitshow has been single the best thing for European unity since Charlemagne -- no country, not even the biggest basket case or the most xenophobic fief wants to go through THAT mess, ever.

The rest of the EU is just tapping their fingers at this point, waiting for the endless drama to end with the UK finally stomping out and hopefully not dragging Ireland too far down with it.

The Archbishop of Canterbury has told the Remoaners to “stop whingeing” and accept that Brexit is happening. Hallelujah. Amen, brother.

I'm not British, so don't get the nuances of this verb "whinge," but does it accurately represent the criticisms of people who foresee the massive hassles in store for the British economy come October?

As I said in R475, it clear Boris's latest moves are a ploy to trick Remain MPs into forcing an election.

Remoaners is the dumbest political putdown ever.

Johnson will announce he’s calling for a General Election today.

I said this last week when BJ (giggle) asked the Queen to prorogue Parliament, that it was a simply a ploy to force an election. Polls have the Conservatives double points ahead of Labour! Johnson will win on the narrative that Remainers MPs are acting against the "will of the people." By blocking virtually every form of Brexit, MPs have sealed the UK's fate in a dramatic shift to the right. The only hope is Johnson pulls a Theresa May and bombs at campaigning.

R485, got it all right.

Maybe, maybe not. T. May and Cameron both trashed their careers and legacies by guessing wrong about what the voters would do.

Cameron actually has a book coming out in a few weeks.

Working Title: "How One Stupid Egotistical Asshole Bet Wrong and Destroyed A Mighty Country"

I cannot be fucking bothered with another general election.

people who live in a nominal democracy who cannot be bothered to vote, usually get what they deserve, sometimes even the death of democracy

[quote]I cannot be fucking bothered with another general election.

Thanks!

[quote]You hear that, R476? You're entitled to a break and therapeutic dose of vodka -- god knows you've been working hard enough for it.

This one isn't Russian. That handle belongs to the Idiot Libertarian Troll, who always predicts total catastrophe and is noted for being always wrong. Just ignore him; there's a reason that the first word in his reputation here is "Idiot."

Parliament is dissolved as soon as a General Election is called so the proroging will be rendered moot.

Looking forward to seeing Brenda from Bristol’s reaction in the next hour:

R491 and R492, of course I'm going to vote. That doesn't stop me from being utterly fed up with all this. I swear to God, I can't remember life before the EU referendum.

Unpopular opinion: Remainers have lost the narrative to the point that the Conservatives will win a majority. They've spent three years insulting voters intelligence saying they didn't know what they were voting for and they have blocked every viable path to honouring the referendum. They have allowed Brexit to dominate the political agenda for nearly four years when polls show the majority of people just want to move on. Now they're using words like coupe, attacking the Queen etc. It might play okay in areas like London or Edinburgh, but the rest of the country it looks ridiculous. They have allowed Brexiteers to cease on the narratives of "these politicans think they know better than you" and "they're not honouring the will of the people" and that's why Boris will win. Not because people like him, but because he's a protest vote. It's like we've learned nothing from 2016!

It looks like within the next few days Johnson will call for a General Election on Oct 14th, which would be on a Monday for the first time.

This was back in the 1980s. There was this queen who'd cruise South Mountain Reservation in South Orange, NJ. You could tell he was on he trails because he would leave a trail of white Kleenex in the woods. Was he using them to mark his way in and out? I don't know. He must've gone through a box every time he was up there.

So I’m a dense American, r498 — if BJ turns out to be wrong about the election results, would the new parliament have time to delay Brexit or accept May’s exit plan?

Damn. The header says The Kleenex Thread, but this is all about Brexit.

R500 A new parliament could ask the EU for another extension.

And what if the EU says bugger off?

Latest is next extension could be until the end of January. 2020, of course.

R504 If there is enough votes to get this Bill through the House, Boris is going to called a snap election which would null this legislation.

Aren't the Tories in a coalition with the DUP from Northern Ireland? So if BoJo blows off the border issue, why would they continue to support him? NI voted to remain.

R506 yes,but if the DUP declare no confidence there will be an election and they will lose their influence if the Tories win the majority that the polls are predicting.

Remainers have fallen into Boris' trap. Why go into an election knowing you're likely to lose?

Not necessarily, r507. The Fixed terms Parliament Act of 2011 requires a two-thirds majority to call for an election (outside the five-year session limit). Johnson could continue to lead Government, try to form a new majority, or one of the other party leaders could try the same. It's a mess.

In case anyone missed it, here's the moment Tory MP Philip Lee defected to the Lib Dems, costing BoJo his working majority

r510. It is getting along night for us watching the debate.

You've got a PM trying to prorogue Parliament and opposition leaders trying to block an election....the UK needs better political leaders.

R509 If Boris losses confidence of the house he can advise the Queen to dissolve Parliament and call and election. The Queen has the right to say no in that case, but likely wouldn't.

Boris Johnson in the House this afternoon.

YouGov poll conducted on Monday and Tuesday show Boris numbers have increased again!

Conservative support is 37% (+5 from last poll) VS Labour 18% (-6).

62% (+2) said UK should leave on October 31, 2019 even if it means no deal. 31% (-8) said UK should stay and 7% were unsure.

51% of people would prefer no deal over Corbyn becoming Prime Minister (+3).

44% (+6) said Boris is a better Prime Minister while 22% said preferred Corbyn.

68% (+13) said there should be a snap election to resolve Brexit.

71% believe politicians are not working in the public's best interest!

So now we know why Labour doesn't want an election.

Yikes Labour needs to update its website.

What a clusterfuck

It's funny because it's so fucking true!

Opinium poll covering Monday through Wednesday has Conservatives at 38%, Labour 16%, Lib Dem16%, Brexit 15%, SNP 4%

[quote]Opinion poll covering Monday through Wednesday has Conservatives at 38%, Labour 16%, Lib Dem16%, Brexit 15%, SNP 4%

If the opposition unites to avoid competing against each other in a pro-EU coalition, the Conservative and Brexit parties are going to have to reach a non-compete agreement. Together they have a majority.

It's becoming increasingly clear that despite the Boris shit show, the last few days are harming Labour more than the Tories. Hanbury poll confirms the rise in Boris' numbers.

33% would still vote Conservative despite the events of the week. 22% would vote Labour. 17% Lib Dem. 17% Brexit.

52% believe the UK should leave the EU on October 31 even with no deal

56% believe that there should been an election before October 31.

43% think having Corbyn as PM would be worse than No Deal Brexit

33% Think no deal is worse than Corbyn

25% both Corbyn and no deal are equally bad.

I hope Boris does break the law to avoid having to ask Brussels for yet another extension. Enough is enough. His poll numbers continue to go up, by the way.

Really, r521?

May thought it was a swell idea to call an election in 2017 when the Tories had a 21 percentage point lead in the polls.

How did that work out for her? Spoiler: she lost 17 seats and Corbyn's Labour won 30.

And May was total cipher, imagine what a towering figure like Bojo the Clown can do to wreck the party.

This is a really good opinion piece. This guy rips Boris apart but I agree that Labour should have supported an early election. Now it appears they're running scarred due to Corbyn's low numbers.

[quote]Now they're using words like coupe

And to that I shout a resounding "SEDAN"!

Homophobic Boris being politely owned by Ireland's gay prime minister is a joy to watch

Yet another resignation - Bercow, this time

Now they're using words like coupe

And to that I shout a resounding "SEDAN"! —W. Churchill

and I say "FLUTE'

R525 - NOBODY cares about "appearances." The opposition parties are united in their effort to stop a no-deal Brexit on the 31st of October, which our kamikazee PM desperately wants to deliver because he's presented himself as this superhuman leader who is going to achieve "BREXIT" - whatever that is. Reasonable people understand why Corbyn and the other parties are opposing a GE until an extension is in place. Once disaster is averted, they will call a GE and promote a democratic 2nd Referendum offering the people of the UK real choice.

John "ORRRRRRDUUUUUUUUUUUUH" Bercow stepping down?!? Noooooooooooooooooo!

How am I supposed to endure these Tory Brexit toffs speaking in Parliament without him calling them to orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrduuuuuuuuuuuh ?!?

Bercow sees the writing on the wall and is stepping down now so not to taint his legacy.

R525 This is a great piece. I don't agree with all of it but he's right to point out that Corbyn is a failure as Labour leader and Labour needs to pick either leave or remain and just stick to it.

Dont' be stupid, R532. As he re-iterated today, he originally said he'd step down in 2017. The 31st of October is obviously going to be the closing of one chapter and a perfect time for him to make good on his promise. He'll see the current proceedings through and allow someone else to take up the next era of government.

What would be the writing on the wall anyway? Boris is hurtling toward a huge personal and political failure. Anyone with eyes can see that.

Bercow is the only little bit of sex appeal in that entire dreary Parliament.

I'd like Bercow to be the next Prime Minister.

Funny and spot-on.

R536 so would Bercow which I believe is part of the reason he's resigning. There is going to be an election soon, Corbyn will likely lose and will have to stand down as Labour leader. Bercow is resigning before the Tories put up an Conservative MP to be speaker so he can go out as the defender of Remain.

[quote] There is going to be an election soon, Corbyn will likely lose and will have to stand down as Labour leader.

I wouldn't bet on Corbyn standing down if the loses the next election. He's already refused to do so many, many times. It's all about his ego.

I just LOVE the cartoon impersonations of The Queen and feckless Boris Johnson in the cartoon R537 has posted upthread.

I think this pie chart is pretty accurate

You know, despite the stereotypes, it really seems like the people from Scotland, including the Scottish Tories, are the grownups in the room right now.

He truly is the Bernie Sanders of the UK. Old coot who doesn’t know when the fuck to go away.

I know this is off-topic, but Theresa May has released her resignation honours list, and she's keeping it classy to the very end!

Here's a thought. The EU's 6th Anti Money Laundering Directive goes into effect on December 2020. This directive broadens the scope of offenses and sanctions and the UK--sans Brexit--would be required to implement it into law.

Which means that it will be more difficult for the Russian oligarchy to stash their money in London property, similar to the Magnitsky Act in the US. Oh where o where will those ill-gotten gains be safe now that Panama had been exposed as well.

Also, certain City hedge funds are going short, £8 Billion, yes billion. These same traders donated to BoJo's campaign and to the Leave campaign.

Also, certain City hedge funds are going short, £8 Billion, yes billion. These same traders donated to BoJo's campaign and to the Leave campaign.

Yellowhammer, "Reasonable Worst Case Scenario", 6 pgs.

r549 Apparently, this was first called "Base Scenario" and they changed it so people would get the impression that these are apocalyptic predictions.

The blacked out section, para 15 reads:

Tariffs make UK petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability, but UK government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to big financial losses and the closure of two refineries (which are converted to import terminals) with about 2,000 direct job losses. Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions they directly supply. Government analysis of the impact of no-deal on refineries continues.

So, expect fuel shortages.

I really love the Yellowhammer designation of "reasonable" worst case scenarios. As if any worst case scenarios were reasonable.

The original document had “Base Scenario” meaning the minimum that was likely to happen. The government has changed that to “Reasonable Worst Case” and redacted section 15. Nothing has changed, it’s still the base case.. This government is particularly venal and dangerous. Also, six pages? That’s it? Pull the other one Gove. Anyone who falls for their bullshit is an idiot.

"How's your man?"

Good God, Hilary Benn is a fucking annoying name and not just because he’s a bloke.

Mark Ruffalo himself has pointed out the flaws in Boris's Incredible Hulk analogy

"Boris Johnson, the British prime minister, has just been humiliated by the leader of the tiniest country in the EU"

The smokin hot Luxembourg prime minister just some major shade, calling out BOJO the clown for his lying, complete with an Eastwood "empty chair" for the coward who ran away rather than hear protesters.

Boris makes Theresa look competent.

R557, the minister pronounced “purpose” as “poor POSE.” Hilarious, very Inspector Clouseau .

Boris was right to bail. He didn’t want to conduct a press conference with a braying mob just yards away. And the EU’s arrogance will only serve to harden the Brexiteers’ resolve.

I know "snowflake" has become a ridiculously overused insult, but it really does apply to the hardcore Brexiteers. Lots of "Luxembourg's PM humiliated Boris, it just proves the EU aren't our frieeends, Brexit can't come soon enough" on social media right now. Boris was the one who chickened out!

Michael Deacon ✔ @MichaelPDeacon

My favourite episode of The Incredible Hulk is the one where a small group of people shouted too loudly so he ran away

R559 - it was chickenshit on his part and, rightly, he has been made to look a fool. If he had stood at the podium and attempted to speak there would have been two outcomes. Either, given the great orator he feels himself to be, he would have soon shut them up and could play the victor or they would continue to ‘bray’, he would have been seen to have made a stand and it would have made those shouting look out of order. Even May, painfully, faced up to the mess. He is a spineless phoney and avoids every situation he can where that is likely to be easily and clearly revealed.

Oh, and, yes, the foreign person pronounced an English word with a foreign accent. Like a character in a film from 1963.

Come a long way haven’t you ?!

Rule Britannia, Britannia...oh, where is everybody ?

Luxembourg didn't make a fool of Boris, he's imminently capable of doing that himself: elect a clown, get a circus

finally the EU is saying publicly what they've been feeling privately for month.

The whole Brexit shit was built on lies and there's never been any clarity (or majority) for whatever it is the Brits really want.

Boris is a fraud and a charlatan who was hell bent to crash out from day one, despite saying a no deal was a "one in a million" possibility

So now the EU can tell them to fuck off. The Tories (Cameron, May and Borscht) created this shitshow, let them drown in it.

Anybody hear that speech Guy Verhofstadt gave at the Lib Dems party conference? Jesus Christ, he’s fucking insufferable. The Tories should play that speech on a loop to expose how unbearably arrogant the EU PTB are.

Boris will have the last laugh when the UK crashes out of the EU at the end of next month, so I’m sure the insults he is receiving are rolling off of him.

He's obtuse enough that he may really be laughing when the UK crashes out, r566. It'll be very short-lived laughter, though -- as short as his premiership.

And we all know Putin's the one whos having the last laugh here.

From a non-Briton, can any British person give a very brief summary of what's presently going on and when the next decision points are? The whole thing has become such a quagmire it's almost impossible for a non-Briton to comprehend.

I'm British, R568, and I barely have any idea what's going on anymore. The UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October. The default position is to leave without a deal (which, contrary to popular opinion, will NOT mean a clean break or an end to Brexit shenanigans - it'll just mean a whole new set of negotiations). There is still no realistic solution to the problem of the Irish border.

Boris has suspended Parliament until 14 October. The Supreme Court is currently determining whether the suspension is lawful. There's also discussion of yet another early general election. The only party pledging to stop Brexit altogether are the Lib Dems (I think).

The whole thing is an absolute shambles.

Jo Swinson is on Twitter today whining about a newspaper printing her home address. What the fuck did she suspect would happen when she decided the Lib Dems would revoke Article 50 if they won a general election? Consequences, bitch.

[quote] So now the EU can tell them to fuck off.

I'm sure that's how they feel. But the reality is that the EU is also harmed by a bad-deal or no-deal Brexit.

A reminder of what The New York Times said in February of 2019-

[quote] By most accounts, Britain's economy would be hammered if it crashed out of the European Union without a deal...But the impact would also be painful for the 27 remaining member states in the European Union. Even though the bloc is a single market, each country has a unique relationship with Britain as far as the movement of goods, services, people and capital.

[quote] The regions most exposed to a no-deal Brexit would experience issues ranging from disruptions in trade to costly tariffs to fragmented supply chains and restrictions on services.

[quote] In the political negotiations, the Europeans have the stronger position. But experts agree that hardly anyone wins if a withdrawal deal isn’t struck – and some countries could lose quite badly.

We (the UK) are so fucked.

Agree with R569, I’m a Londoner and haven’t a fucking clue what’s going on anymore. I imagine it’ll come right down to the wire. Apparently from the 19th, I think, Boris has to ask for an extension but I imagjne the courts will have to force him to do that. Clearly a lot of rich people stand to gain from a no deal Brexit while it’ll suck for the rest of us.

I’m tired of the whole thing. I don’t want to vote for anybody. Give them their no deal Brexit and then the gammon can moan about unemployment and trade falling. Whatever. Anything to SHUT THEM UP.

R573 no deal will result in 10 more years of Brexit headlines, since nothing will have been resolved

It's looking pretty bleak right now, you guys. Tory sources are saying they'll get an extension, then run in a general election on a No Deal platform, and simply refuse to engage in any kind of negotiation after they win. Just wait for the clock to run out in January.

On both sides of the Atlantic, I just can’t believe how willing people are to march toward fascism. People who should know better.

I mean, whatever, R574. I know that but what am I supposed to do about. At this point, social Darwinism is our best bet.

r576 Neither of these two countries experienced fascism, so I always thought it was only a matter of time before they do, and they don't recognise the warning signs because they think it can never happen to them.

From the official Leave.EU Twitter account. Seriously.

r579 Fucking awful and deplorable, but we knew it would come down to this at the last hour.

And notice how they were obviously looking for a photo of her where she most appears like she's giving the Nazi salute. 🙄

Oliver Lettwin and Gina Miller are such fucking obstructionists. They are truly the enemies of the people.

Dear Troll R581 You say obstructionist, I say brave patriots forcing the government to follow the word of law and the parliament. The parliament is the supreme legal authority in the UK after all.

A No Deal Brexit will happen after Boris and the Tories win the General Election, sweeping away all those despicable obstructionists. And good riddance.

This delay will possibly allow BoJo to appoint Nigel to the EC.

Merkel and Macron do NOT want him blocking every single piece of legislation.

He could essentially prevent the EU from passing any legislation as long as he remains their representative. Until they allow the UK to leave, Brussels will be stuck with a poisonous thorn in their side.

Then the EU will get what they deserve. Blocking British self-determination should come at a cost.

The delusion is thick with the likes of r585.

At this point, the UK can't get out the door fast enough to satisfy the EU. One drain less on the union's nerves and attention, which are currently stretched enough dealing with issues like the economy and Turkey.

It's the Brits who can't cut the cord. The EU is just agreeing to each extension request to avoid being blamed for further chaos in the UK.

Is it Brexit yet?

R587 Today is meant to be Brexit day or BoJo will die in a ditch. So far, neither has happened. The deadline is 11pm.

I wonder if those who said they would honor the result of the referendum but then didn’t will be as reviled in British history as Benedict Arnold is in American history.

Why would you "wonder" about something so self-evident, R589? Not to mention a bit stupid. We already know what the answer is: "No."

R589 We on DL source the rightwing rags like the Fail and the Excess but we do not take them seriously. Neither should you, if you wish to be reasonably happy here. Benedict Arnold is forgotten in the US.

[quote] Benedict Arnold is forgotten in the US.

The education system hasn’t gotten that bad, has it?

EU can't wait to get rid of these racist knuckledraggers

Let them wallow in their Little Britain, the United Kingdom of England and Wales

Europe is embracing the 21 century, UK the 19th.