Leaving Neverland, Part 10

Pedo thread

He was a disgusting pedophile and probably paid off dozens of victims that we shall never know about. What else can you say.

Link to previous thread...

From 2009 - Those poor kids, they have vultures for "family"

Awhile back, a friend of ours in the media who has been acquainted with the Jackson family for a long time told us that Michael Jackson’s kids would be better off NOT placed with the family. “That’s the worst thing that could happen to them!” she said. “All they talk about is MONEY- ways to access Michael’s money and schemes to make more money off his name.” It looks like our source was right. The three kids spent Thanksgiving day frolicking in a $25,000 suite at The Palms in Las Vegas rather than a family dinner. We wonder how they’ll spend Christmas.

Reposting from last thread--too good to miss.

When you read Robson's deposition, it sounds a little bit overboard, how he tries to sneak an abuse story into almost any and every interaction that he had with Jackson for 7 years.

R7 CONT.

From the previous image, he portrays Jackson as a totally insatiable, reckless abuser who would abuse him even with other people being in the next room, able to walk in on them any time. For example

But this totally contradicts James Safechuck's portrayal of MJ as this extremely cautious, paranoid abuser who would go extreme lengths to avoid being detected, like this.

r7 C.ont.

And this

R9 Cont.

And this

R9 Cont.

Safechuck needed this type of portrayal for his own purposes as often family and friend went with him to his Neverland trips and no one ever has seen anything suspicious. So he need an explanation for that.

R11 Cont.

This, however, resulted in totally contradictory portrayal by these men as to how MJ supposedly was as a "molester."

Robson portrays him as a reckless abuser who couldn't resist molesting him whenever they stayed alone just for a couple of minutes, even if other people were dangerously close to detecting them.

Safechuck, on the other hand, portrays him as very, very cautious almost to the point of paranoia.

So which one is it? Probably neither, because both are lying.

When will the pedo Jacko supporter be banned by Muriel?

Another addition to how Robson portrays MJ as a totally reckless abuser in contrary to Safechuck's portrayal as an extremely cautious one Leaving Neverland.

(Image 1 of 4)

I see the blocked troll has been let out of the asylum as rapid posting is taking place. Glad to not be privy to his lunacy.

R13 Cont.

(Image 2 of 4)

RE R15 Cont.

Image 3 of 4

Re R16 Cont

(Image 4 of 4)

Robson and Safechuck's portrayal of MJ as a "molester" also differ in that Safechuck describes a many months long "grooming" period, whereas Robson says MJ couldn't wait to molest him right on the first occasion they were alone in a room. No grooming period, nothing.

Mind you, Robson's story changed even since its first telling. For example, in a book draft that he shopped late 2012-early 2013, he wrote that MJ did not molest him right away the first weekend they spent together, but only the next week when his parents weren't around.

By the time he filed his complaint the story changed to MJ molesting him right away. It even prompted the lawyers for MJ's side to ask him if his memories have "evolved"? That is it to put it euphemistically that his story has changed

More: Safechuck, taking a cue from the Arvizo's story, claims MJ gave him alcohol when he was a child.

MJ probably fancied Robson more so became reckless and attacked him everywhere he could. He was absolutely demonic.

seriously Muriel - this is nuts

Robson, on the other hand, expressed surprise about MJ drinking alcohol when he desribed their last meeting in 2008 in Las Vegas (when both of them were adults, of course). He said it was new to him even then that MJ wanted alcohol!

MJ's companies are a central part of his story. In his lawsuit he portrays them as "the most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization[s] the world has known" that knowingly and deliberately “facilitated” his alleged abuse. Proof:

RE R24 Cont.

More proof.

RE R25 CONT.

However, the 2016 deposition of Wade’s mother, Joy Robson inadvertently proves that this is a lie.

The Robsons, who are originally from Brisbane, Australia, first met Jackson in 1987 when he was on tour in Australia and Wade, who was 5 year old then, won a dance competition at Target store where the prize was to meet Michael Jackson.Wade alleged in his lawsuit:

R2, I'd love to know how the whole Omer Bhatti has just flown under the radar, not just this past month but also while it was still going on. Such a bizarre and creepy situation, even compared to Jackson's usual sleepovers and special friendships, it's almost incredible. Already a suspected child molester, MJ meets the kid, moves his whole family to Neverland and hires the parents so he can have the kid close. The parents and the sister live in a cottage on the ranch while little Omer lives with MJ and sleeps in his room. And then the parents just up and leave for Norway, and completely abandon their kid with Jackson. In a feeble attempt to explain why this kid is living with him Jackson starts a rumor that he's his illegitimate son, and even has Joe Jackson spouting that crap.

The whole thing was just so absurd. And he just got away with it. After he died, the media were asking "Is this kid who lived with Michael Jackson really his son?", not "Why the fuck was an accused child molester cohabiting for years with an unrelated child?". And even after Leaving Neverland, the boy who spent years living unsupervised with Jackson has barely been mentioned. In and of itself this would be all the smoking gun necessary, even if Jordie hadn't described Jackson's penis correctly (he did) and Jackson hadn't owned legal, NAMBLA-recommended child porn (he did).

R22, Muriel/the mods need to act and take this pedo off the boards! He must be making thousands of posts every single day to defend King Pedo.

R26 CONT. This portrayal is massively contradicted by his mother's deposition. She testified that the meet-and-greet was not organized by MJ's companies but by Target, Pepsi and CBS. It was an event where a lot of people were present and they only had a couple of minutes with MJ.

re R29 Cont.

Even Wade himself testified that when he was on stage with MJ at the concert he did not spend any time with the star off stage, their only interaction was on the stage.

So what if MJ behaved in a different manner with each one of the boys? There are a million reasons for this to happen, from the boys’ pwrsonalities, to the feedback he got from each one.

I bet if the stories had been similar, the MJ defenders would have found a way of depicting them as rehearsed and premeditated.

They’re there, ready with a defensive on the offense spin for every scenario:

Quit riddling the thread with shit you’ve already posted, pro-pedo troll. Begone.

Re R30 Cont

Their encounter would have ended there, if it was for MJ or his companies. It was Joy Robson who then made further efforts to contact MJ again. She, with her son, delivered a “thank you” note to Jackson’s hotel room and had another meeting with the star, for about 1.5 hours.

Again, this would have been the end of their encounters if for Jackson or his companies. Over the next few years Joy Robson sent Jackson letters and videos about Wade’s progress as a dancer, but they never heard back from the star.

Proof:

Re R34 More proof.

The next time they met or even talked to Jackson again was more than two years later, in 1990, when, once again, it were the Robsons who sought contact with the star, not the other way around.

But let's see first what Wade alleges in his lawsuit about that meeting 2 years later in 1990.

Re R36 Cont.

And

Norma Staikos was Jackson's personal assistant at the time. Robson accuses her of being "a "madam" or "procurer" of child sexual abuse victims for Michael Jackson", but as we have seen above Joy says in her deposition that between 1987-1990, she sent Jackson several letters about Wade and videos of him, hoping to get in touch with the star again, but all of those remained unanswered.

Before the Robson family traveled to the USA in January 1990, Joy already tried to obtain contact information for MJ, by calling Australian television channels and asking if they had any sort of contact for him. She eventually managed to obtain the phone number of MJJ Productions.

They never heard back because King Pedo wasn't interested in the boys once they passed puberty. He only liked the 7-12 year olds. He was revolting and will be burning in hell.

Love what MJStan calls “proof.”

It is absolutely disingenuous from Wade to portray this 1990 meeting in his lawsuit as some sort of plot by Staikos and MJ's companies to acquire him as a victim for MJ.

He knows damn well that it was them, the Robson's, who sought contact with MJ again, not the other way around. In an interview several years before his turnaround he even talked about it!

So why does he accuse Norma Staikos of being a "madame" and "procurer of child sexual abuse victims for Michael Jackson" when it was her mother who sought contact with MJ, and it was not Staikos who sought contact with them?

Simple. Because this is the way he could ask for a monetary compensation in his lawsuit. For someone who claims that his allegations aren't about money, but about "the truth", he sure lies a lot in his lawsuit just to try to get to that money.

It is clear that it was Joy Robson who “purposely orchestrated” the meeting, not Staikos, MJJ Productions or MJJ Ventures. That Wade claims otherwise in his lawsuit is a deliberate lie to implicate the MJ companies and Staikos, because that is the way he could sue for money.

The role of MJ's companies in all this was that when Joy eventually decided to immigrate in September 1991, the Robsons needed a sponsor and an employer in the USA to be able to stay. Joy asked MJ to help them with that, and MJ instructed his office to do it.

This goes against Wade's narrative that MJ and his companies brought him to the USA "for the explicit purpose of allowing Michael Jackson access to [Robson] for sexual abuse".

Jackson and his companies reacted to the expressed desire of the Robson family to have a career for Wade in dancing and choreography, which could be better pursued in the USA than in Australia.

And as we have already discussed in this thread, when the Robsons moved to the US, MJ did not even spend much time with Wade, Joy rather complained that Wade felt pushed aside.

So the narrative that Jackson moved the Robsons to the USA "for the explicit purpose of allowing Michael Jackson access to [Robson] for sexual abuse" makes little sense when he then hardly wanted to spend time with Wade.

The Michael pedo defender is doing much more to damage Michael’s reputation than either Robson or Safechuck.

The allegation that MJ's companies were "the most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization(s) the world has known" is also risiculous because if that was the case it should have been a regularity for these companies to employ children...but Wade's employment was a one-off, and specifically in answer to Joy Robson’s request to help them with their immigration.

In his desperation to implicate the companies (ie. to be able to sue for money) at one point Wade went as far in his deposition as to blame Staikos and MJ's next personal assistant Evvy Tavasci even more than MJ himself!

So on the one hand Michael Jackson was supposed to be this helpless child, on the other hand, however, he was also supposed to be the shrewd mafia boss of the “most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organization the world has known”.

In his deposition Wade even makes absurd claims like that Staikos should have called the authorities when the Robsons contacted Jackson in January/February 1990.

Re R48 Cont.

And this.

He also blames Staikos because "[Jackson] didn't know about me again until [Staikos] made the connection”, once again "forgetting" that it was his mother who initiated that connection, not Staikos!

That Norma Staikos is made out to be the main "facilitator" of Wade's alleged abuse instead of his mother, is a big red flag regarding what this case really is about. It has all to do with the fact that this is the way Wade could try to sue Jackson's companies for money.

And the demonstrable lies about the companies are also very problematic for Wade’s credibility, because he claims his coming forward is all about getting out “the truth”. But how are you fighting for "the truth" when your complaint is full of lies?

The MJ estate should be divided between Robson, Safechuck and all the other tiny boys King Pedo abused. They are entitled to money.

Some more lies by Robson: Besides the civil lawsuit against MJ's companies Robson also filed a creditor's claim against MJ's Estate - for monetary compensation of course.

A claimant has to file his creditor’s claim no later than 60 days from the date when he first has knowledge of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim and the administration of the Estate.

In this case it meant that Robson should have filed his creditor’s claim within 60 days of when he knew both of the following: 1. that he was allegedly sexually abused as a child by Michael Jackson, 2. that Michael Jackson had an Estate.

Robson claimed that he did not understand that he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson as a child until May 8, 2012.

R52 Cont.

The Court dismissed this argument. Its ruling stated that at least by the time of Jackson’s death, Robson was well aware of both that a sexual relationship between an adult and a minor was a crime and also that a victim does not go to jail for such alleged acts.

Jackson's defenders really get off on reading and discussing these depictions of abuse over and over and over and over again.

In his declaration (also under oath) Robson also claimed that he did not know about the administration of the MJ Estate before March 4, 2013 when he first met his lawyers Gradstein & Marzano.

Yes R27 Omer Bhatti was in my opinion MJ's longest man/boy "relationship". He refuses to defend Michael & apparently was very nervous when asked about "Jesus Juice" by the police prior to the last trial. MJ had him sent back to Norway but he returned post trial and lived with Michael off and on.

Omer loves fame and the trapping of it though. Jackson gifted him with money, a Rolls Royce, all kinds of expensive toys. His IG is vacuous as a Kardashian's. He also seems to be the only one of Jackson's victims who may be gay. IMO he was certainly a victim and brainwashed.

If this was true it would put Wade within the 60 days requirement, as he filed his creditor's claim on May 1, 2013, within 60 days of obtaining knowledge about the administration of Jackson's Estate.

But this was a lie to get around those statutes of limitations. As it was revealed by Jackson's Estate during discovery, Wade was not only very much aware of the administration of Jackson's Estate years before he filed his creditor's claim, but he even negotiated with them!

In 2011 Wade was eager to work on Cirque du Soleil's Michael Jackson Las Vegas show "ONE", and to discuss it, in early 2011 he made a visit to the office of John Branca, one of the executors of the Michael Jackson Estate.

In other words, Wade, again, lied in his declaration - so under oath. That to get around statutes of limitations. Because this is all about "the truth" and not money, you know.

Moreover, Wade's longtime lawyer and family friend, Helen Yu, who helped him in shopping around his book in 2012-2013, discussed the Michael Jackson Estate in an interview on her law firm's website in 2009.

She mentioned the Estate's executors, John Branca and John McClain, and she talked about how Jackson "will most likely earn more dead than alive" through his Estate.

You have posted 10+ times in the last five minutes, pedo troll, and all of it is garbage you’ve already posted elsewhere.

Wade also tried to twist the requirement and besides claiming that he was not aware of the Estate's administration at all, he also claimed that he was not aware that he could seek a claim.

However, the MJ Estate discovered, that on Sept. 7, 2012 Wade sent out an e-mail in which he shared his allegations with over 30 people. Asking his recipients for discretion, he refers to his allegations as an "extremely sensitive legal matter". From Joy's deposition: (Image 1 of 2)

Absolutely R 51 - you nailed it

Re R59 Image 2 of 2

It shows that long before March 4, 2013, at the very least by September 7, 2012, he understood that he had a legal cause of action.

In a ruling by Judge Mitchell L. Beckloff, the Court dismissed Wade Robson's creditor's claim on May 26, 2015. Although immediately after the ruling Wade’s lawyer, Maryann Marzano vowed to appeal, they eventually never did. This documentary spent a significant amount of time on trying to psychologically explain Wade Robson's deceptive behavior as a result of childhood sexual abuse. They know that many people would instinctively have a huge problem with someone who until not so long ago defended or even praised MJ, testified for him, asked for a job with his Estate, but then turned around and claimed abuse while asking for a monetary compensation when the guy is not here to defend himself.

So we hear about how it is not rare at all for abuse victims to come out many years, even decades later. We also hear about how abuse victims sometimes are conflicted and even feel love for their abuser.

We hear about how shame, the fear of not being believed, thinking they are alone with this problem and other factors may also play a role in keeping their secret for so long.

That is all true and we certainly do not deny the experience of those genuine abuse victims who go through this process. However, in this case there are many reasons to think that we are talking about posers who not only take advantage of MJ, but also of genuine abuse victims.

Some of those reasons I mentioned above. Here is another: Wade's explanation of why he did not come out earlier and why he did not tell "his truth" in 2005 is all over the place. Here is one example:

According to his mother's deposition, when her mother asked him why he didn't tell "his truth" in 2005, he told her because of shame:

However, when Wade was very specifically asked in his deposition if shame played a factor, he denied it did. There he was on his story that until 2012 he didn't know it was wrong, so he "didn't have any perspective on it". (He does mention shame but only in everyday situations)

To further highlight his flip-flopping (ie. lying), here is something he wrote on his blog in July 2018. This is in direct contradiction with what he said in his deposition!

In his depo he specifically denies shame being a factor and the fear of being labelled gay being a factor, but in a blog post where he lectures his audience on misguided definitions of masculinity, he is suddenly again on his initial story that he told his mother about shame.

So which one is it? I assumed the shame version, because that's more relatable. Saying shit like "I didn't have any perspective on it until 2012 when I suddenly realized I was abused" is a much less relatable.

Ultimately this just shows him once again as a liar, who will shamelessly say anything he needs to say in any given situation. In court, for legal reasons, he had to be on on the version of not knowing it was abuse until 2012, so he said that.

But he must have he realized himself that the shame angle doesn't work well with it, so that's not what he claimed in court. In public, however, "I didn't have any perspective on it until 2012" would be difficult to sell, so in public he is on his shame version.

Make no mistake, Wade is well prepared of child abuse stories. He admitted to have read lots of literature about the topic before he filed his lawsuit. So those familiar descriptions of sexual abuse, do not prove he is telling the truth, it just proves he is well read on the topic.

Shame and the fear of being labelled gay is a familiar story in male victims. But as we seen, Wade just uses this story, to explain his turnaround - and he will use a completely contradictory explanation when that is what is required. Doesn't that sound like a cynical liar?

Re. Wade Robson claiming on Inside Edition: "there was no night that [MJ] didn't sexually abuse me". It is an interesting phenomenon how his "memories" evolve.

Almost all of the information concerning the lawsuits is available on PACER/the internet, and Jackson's companies and the Estate's responses to almost every one of their legal filings show that they are well aware of all the major issues in his testimony and have little respect for either of their credibility. It leads me to believe that Dan Reed is also well aware if he did an iota of research on these two's dubious pasts.

Reed acts clueless in the interviews, but he is also complicit in putting these known liars and perjurers on television. It's shocking that whenever anyone questions him on any of this (such as in the Piers Morgan) interview, his refusal/inability to form coherent answers is seen as an attack by the anti-MJ haters.

If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching him stumble to answer some of Morgan's' questions.

We can rest confidently that the rebuttal documentary will include enough information to set the record straight on these two.

It's telling that every witness who claimed Michael did something wrong was laid off and sued Michael for money long before they made any allegations. These people were Blanca Francia, Charlie Michaels (whose story is refuted by Wade's own mother), Orietta Murdock, Donald Stark and Leroy Thomas (of Hayvenhurst 5). All of these people were paid by tabloid media and in his deposition Donald Stark even said that Diane Dimond’s Hard Copy wanted them to fabricate stories.

Omer - definite victim

Pedo troll is on it like MJ at an all boys preschool

Omer had an uncanny resemblance to Michael especially when dressed up in mini-me. That and a few film clips of Omer calling Michael dad began the rumor that Omer was his son. (which of course Joe Jackson haughtily affirmed, stating he "knew about that" ).

[quote]You have posted 10+ times in the last five minutes, pedo troll, and all of it is garbage you’ve already posted elsewhere.

And garbage that has been refuted already! This person is just cutting and pasting all his posts from the previous thread, so I propose this thread be trashed. He’s already ruined it. Or simply we should ignore

The differences in the grooming process are perfectly consistent with what we know of the boys and their families.

Wade had a much worse mother. Stephanie Safechuck, like June Chandler took some (pathetically little) convincing and manipulation to let her kid sleep in MJ's bed. Joy Robson just dumped her kid there and giddily drove on to Grand Canyon. And Wade was a younger kid, and, unlike Safechuck, already a huge Michael Jackson fan.

MJ also abused James earlier in his molestation career than he did Wade. As time went by and he kept getting away with it, he would've kept getting more daring and careless, and less able to control his compulsion.

R72 Of course you did not refute it, but you and others quickly moved to flood the last thread with other posts to avoid addressing it.

Nevertheless, rest assured I will continue to post it in any other threads you create so other DLers can see the clear perjury in their lawsuits vs. testimony in LN. Definitive proof they are lying is available beginning at R6.

Sit back and play Smooth Criminal, the 12th video to reach greater than 200 million views on Youtube while you watch.

R73 The damning bombshell discrepancies from their lawsuits (again--highly recommend others go back and start reading at R6) show that they lied repeatedly in their lawsuits, often in direct contradiction to themselves and one another--for the sole purpose of obtaining money, and not "the truth."

^JanBot talking to itself in multiple threads.

^R76 -2/10. Try again.

Jackson trying to pass off Omer Bhatti as his kids (and managing to fool some of his deluded fans who for some bizarre reason fantasize about MJ being a straight lothario) was an escalation of him introducing Jordie Chandler and Brett Barnes were his cousins. What do MJ supporters imagine was the reason for that?

GREAT news. Glad to see more of the kids coming out to speak about their positive experiences with MJ.

Aaron Carter has firmly declared what he believes in the Michael Jackson controversy.

The singer is slamming Wade Robson and James Safechuck for the child sex abuse allegations they made against Jackson in the HBO documentary, “Leaving Neverland.”

Carter appeared on TMZ Live on Monday and defended the musical icon, opening up about his own personal experiences with Jackson.

Wade also dated MJ's niece, Brandi Jackson, for 7 years. MJ hooked them up. This was during the period he was supposedly bleeding from the backside bcos of MJ.

Dan Reed's loony explanation: "The fact that he was boyfriend and girlfriend with Brandi at the age of 12 or 13 doesn't mean he wasn't seeing Jackson too so I don't really follow the logic." -The 54-year-old filmmaker

Brandi Jackson also alleges that Joy Robson called her after Michael's death and claimed to be godmother for Jackson's children. I believe Brandi.

Omar lasted the longest because he looked much younger than his actual age. He never denied abuse only stating that Michael's behavior might not be understood, that others would have a different perception than Michael. He could probably write a book of the last few craziest years of Jackson's life.

I wouldn't put anything past Joy Robson. But enough with the Brandi crap, R81. I know you're a troll, but can't you find any better material than a Jackson clan parasite who still hasn't produced a single photo past age 7 showing her with the supposed great love of her youth?

Paris Jackson needs to get away from this creepy family. They'd kill her for the money.

R82 Obsessed MJ-Hater logic: "X kid NEVER denied abuse so he had to be molested." I wonder if this means the hundreds of other kids that came into contact with Michael are also victims. It's sick how people are so intent on speculating and creating victims.

Dan Reed wants you to believe all these kids exist, so he can push a false narrative-- but half of them say no abuse and the other half are living their lives without issue.

Then you have these con artists who come into the picture starting at R6.

Has the Brett Barnes twitter account been confirmed to be his? He sounds absolutely unhinged. And (if the account really is his) has apparently been completely tying his identity to Jackson way before LN. I know abuse can mess you up, but he seems like he's completely lost touch with reality.

Brett Barnes threatened to sue HBO because Dan Reed made people like R86 convinced he was abused when he repeatedly says he was not.

R78, supposedly Emmanuel Lewis's mother broke off his relationship with Jackson when Jackson registered the two of them at a hotel as father and son. Lewis seemed to be Jackson's first public relationship with an underaged boy, and Lewis also looked much younger than his actual age.

It amazes me how that no one called out this disgusting behavior by Jackson. There is no excuse to take boys into your bed. It is absolutely wrong

Nice

R89, MJ spoke openly about having these "sleepovers" in his interview with Diane Sawyer, with his fake wife, Lisa Marie Presley, sitting right next to him. Unbelievable.

Jackson fucked those boys.

He's burning in hell.

R92 The damning bombshell discrepancies from their lawsuits (again--highly recommend others go back and start reading at [R6]) show that they lied repeatedly in their lawsuits, often in direct contradiction to themselves and one another--for the sole purpose of obtaining money, and not "the truth."

Yammer away, pedo apologist JABBA, yammer away.

Jackson fucked those boys.

The Jackson family has filed a lawsuit against HBO and are considering suing Robson and Safeschuck.

Robson already owes 70,000 in legal fees to the estate and Safechuck owes several thousand as well.

I hope the Jackson Estate bankrupts them.

Wonderful news. Glad to hear Nike is standing by Jackson.

People are bombarding Starbucks with emails and complaints regarding their racially motivated removal of Jackson's music from their store playlist as well.

Block the pedo apologist. It like trying to have an intelligent conversation with a parrot. It keeps repeating the same words over and over with no meaning behind them

I've got a bridge to sell to anyone who can read Brett and his sister's testimony and come away believing the out of control pedophile didn't molest him. Barnes, like Culkin, has said things that show he believes being abused is something to be ashamed of. It's a fucking tragedy what Jackson did to these kids' lives.

Brett Barnes threatened to sue HBO because people like R98 are falsely convinced by Dan Reed et. al that he was abused when he repeatedly says he was not.

I'm starting to think the pro-MJ troll IS Brett Barnes. He's certainly delusional enough, and then some.

A great opinion post on just a few of Wade and James' insane credibility problems. Some of which are laid out in posts starting at R6--go back and start reading from there.

From the article:

Both Safechuck and Robson describe a calculating Jackson, “grooming” them and their families to trust and rely on him. Both men say Jackson was exceedingly careful when subjecting them to his perversions, installing an alarm that activated when anyone approached his bedroom and running each of them separately through get-dressed-quickly drills to prepare them for if and when the alarm triggered.

And yet Safechuck then describes having “sex” — he doesn’t specify that it’s explicit intercourse — in nearly every area of what was Jackson’s sprawling Neverland Valley Ranch in California.

Robson describes, as a teen, going to visit Jackson in a hotel, and laying with him in bed when Jackson attempted to penetrate him anally. He said that there was too much pain so Jackson stopped but that after returning home the next day, Jackson summoned Robson back to warn him that there may be blood on his underwear, so to return home and quickly collect it before anyone noticed.

So was Jackson a wild pervert bedding children all over his ranch and hotel rooms? Or was he a smooth criminal? Both, if you can believe it. But both can't be true.

R96 Fans can scream as loudly as they want. The wellbeing of children supersedes any political agenda in our society at the present time. No normal person wants to hear music that came out of the same mouth that also rimmed a seven year old’s asshole.

R101 You have to laugh to keep from crying at the nonsense of these people.

“Particularly stupefying is the scene that touched major film reviewers all over the country, wherein Safechuck pulls out a jewelry box to display expensive rings given to him by Jackson.

Safechuck expresses his resentment for the gifts — and yet there they are, preciously placed in a decorative box, still in his possession 30 years after the man, who he says licked his anus as a young boy, gave it to him."

R102 - "No normal person wants to hear music that came out of the same mouth that also rimmed a seven year old’s asshole."

Normal people: "Michael Jackson Music Sales Rise, Despite Harrowing Documentary"

Wonder who they believe.

Are any Jackson fans in any way “normal”?

I doubt they much care, R104.

Dave Chappelle is hilarious R106. He's implied that he believes Michael Jackson is innocent AND says things like:

"Mike must be confused, like “I brought you in my house, I fed you, I sucked your dick, and this is how you repay me, motherfucker? This was your wish not mine. I thought you were dying in two weeks, what happened to that motherfucker? I’ve been in court for a year and a half, you get stronger every time I see you.”

Co-sign Brett Barnes being abused. His testimony read "shame, shame,shame". His twitter profile is also insane all apple head, dodo club madness. He's in denial and also FUBAR.

Michael Jackson should burn in hell with his enabling family

It seems like only 5 celebrities came out in support of Wade and James and 2 of them, Jamie Lee Curtis and Evan Rachel Wood, have deleted their tweets. Where is the outpouring of support from anyone other than journalists who are willing to forego any type of evidence in order to push a progressive social justice narrative.

Brett Barnes threatened to sue HBO because people like R108 are falsely convinced by Dan Reed et. al that he was abused when he repeatedly says he was not.

R111 What massive hypocrites some people are. They pretend to be victims' advocates while secretly hoping for more victims so they can exploit them.

[quote] Jackson's defenders really get off on reading and discussing these depictions of abuse over and over and over and over again.

Irony alert!

As usual, R107, the point went over your head. It's that the public doesn't care about abuse nearly as much as they care about Jackson's hits. The public's priorities don't say anything about the validity of the accusations, all they tell us is that people on average are callous, shallow and pretty dim. That's why Jackson managed to be a molester in plain sight of a slobbering public his entire adult life, and in a matter of hours went from molester to saint after his death.

Dumb as rocks, misses all the points, rinses and repeats. Don't the wackos have work, school or children to fatten up?

Can any the critics provide a specific rebuttal on anything? Go ahead and post some more MadTV skits.

Church meetings, maybe?

This is still being debated? There is not one person I know who watched the documentary who believes he is innocent. Just yesterday this guy at the Apple Store who helped me said his gf watched it and thought MJ was guilty too. These defenders can shout from the rooftops and post 1000x on the DL, but it won't change anyone's opinion.

At first, we didn't want to talk about James, only Wade, then we start talking about James, and then it's all "but what about Macaulay Culkin or Brett Barnes." Then we mention that they testified for Jackson. Now they bring up Omer Bhatti and several unknown boys. If that's not an attempt at diversion from the very topic of this thread, then I don't know what is. And then there are those who think Wade is an opportunist, liar, cheater, and scammer but still find him credible because they think Jackson is guilty and no amount of reason or logic can get them to change their mind.

R88, I remember reading that and thinking how nice it is to finally hear of at least one of the kids in MJ's orbit having a parent that cared about protecting them. So many people are convinced that he didn't abuse Lewis, and I understand why, since MJ was a self-hater with a seemingly pretty strict preference for white and light-skinned kids. But the hotel stunt is pretty damning. Who but a molester covering his tracks would do anything like that, and why?

R108, Barnes and Culkin's testimonies make for some very grim reading. For all their denials, their reactions are so very typical for abuse victims, The statement Jonathan Spence supposedly gave to Gutierrez also sounded ashamed and defensive, but it's Gutierrez, so who knows whether he reported it correctly.

Again, plenty of evidence of why they are lying at R6 and on. Now we're all just speculating on whether their massive lack of evidence and contradictory testimony proves they were abused (I say not)

Brett Barnes threatened to sue HBO because people like R119 are falsely convinced by Dan Reed et al that he was abused when he repeatedly says he was not.

R188 Can't WW that enough. Exactly.

^R118, not R188

MadTV and In Living Color ripping on Jackson and his molesting ways is all very good indeed, but this has always been my favorite take on Jackson.

Funny how the older white DLers suddenly love Katt Williams when he's doing a comedy routine about MJ.

Sorry, R115, think I've exhausted MADtv (and In Living Color) for Wacko Jacko skits, LOL... but in the meantime, there's always this:

[quote]I'd like to address this horrible HBO documentary about me; it's filled with lies and IGnorance. I would NEVER hurt children. I LOVE sleepin' with little boys, that's all. Just a grown man, sleepin' with a little boy... of COURSE I fucked them, kids! Come on, it's so obvious! I was a GOOD pedophile too, huh...? I built a whole amusement park, a candy store, and I said "You kids like candy?" They be like "Yeah, yeah, we like candy... but yeah, we like can... yeah, can...!" Yeah, wanna tell your mama to get the FUCK outta here... tee-hee-hee-hee! Then they did... I was like "Oh, shit!" Didn't y'all notice I only slept with little CUTE boys...? Not little girls... not little ugly boys... just cute little mother-fuckin' tight-ass mmmmm mmmmm BOYS! Well, better get back to heaven... I got in because I apologized right before I died; dem da rules. Bye!

Facts Don't Lie People Do. Read at R6 in this thread and keep going to see the hypocrisy in action.

Oh R121, he must be seething that statute of limitations prevents him from frivolously suing Jordan Chandler too. He was the one who first named him (and Safechuck, and Robson, and Culkin) as a victim of "cousin" Michael.

To move the discussion away a bit from the MJ supporter troll's crap... What do (sane) people here make of Barnes and Frank Cascio allegedly sleeping in Jackson's bed up to their late teens and 20s? It doesn't seem like Jackson was sexually interested in those above 13 or 14 (I can see a kid like Omer being an exception, since he looked so much younger than his age). So was it still sexual at that point or was it something else? The "special friendship" changing into a (still twisted) non-sexual one and just sharing the space because by then it was routine? Or Barnes and Cascio refusing to take the hint and trying their best not to get shut out of Jackson's world and Jackson not caring enough to spell things out for them? Or were they just lying their asses off about it, trying to make him seem like less of a pedophile?

R128 Still creating victims where there are none. It's a remarkable phenomenon that MJ-Obsessed haters are intent on creating these elaborate theories about the people who say Jackson is innocent.

Sad really that it's the best they can do after Wade and James' credibility (such as in posts beginning in R6) is so low that they need to speculate about other credible people rather than come to the obvious conclusion that LN is a lie--and Jackson is not a serial abuser. Sigh.

R128, Frank helped him take care of the children when the nanny was away for a few months' very odd situation. I suspect Michael might have had full on sex with frank and the older boys he kept around. I base that opinion on what Wade said he tried at 14.

Wade Robson is the next Jussie Smollett.

We've discussed Wade's lies extensively (go back and read starting at R6 if you're new to this thread.) Here's a new video of him, I hadn't seen before.

"Doing my little Michael-moves, you know...hahaha"

It's becoming ironic that James and Wade lied in an attempt to get money, and that not only failed but put them tens of thousands of dollars in debt to the Jackson estate. That's divine karma.

Wonder if either will risk a GoFundMe now that they've been exposed.

"I’m confused by what your position is. This is NOT an abused kid just keeping quiet about their abuse and then finally deciding it was ok to tell his story. He was asked about MJ hundreds of times in numerous contexts, and his current story is contradicted in every possible way."

--Read starting at R6 to see how.

Did Lisa Marie marry MJ in order to get him hooked into Scientology?

I hate the Clams has much as the next person, but My God, it would have been beautiful to see Jackson buffooning around with Tom and Katie and spending all his money talking to Xenu.

I just saw Oprah’s interview. I didn’t know she attended Sundance specifically to see this documentary. She’s a fucking G. Seeing Wade and James with Anthony Edwards and Tarantino Burke and other survivors really gave it context.

The pedo stan can nitpick the victims of Jackson’s perversions for showing the pathologies of child sexual abuse victims, but the fact that Jackson shows every marker of a pedophile and that there is no excuse whatsoever for his behavior is totally ignored. They have no defense for it.

Tell us, pedo stan, why the children he just ‘loved’ so much aged out of being his special friend? How can that possibly be explained as the actions of a loving man? How could a man who loved children emotionally brutalize them like that? And what could motivate it outside of them growing outside of his pedophilic age preference? Essentially — why did he act in every way like a pedophile, and why don’t you think that matters?

Facts Don't Lie People Do.

Previous versions of Robson’s story state that he did not come forward with his claims any sooner because he was ashamed. This was then changed to not coming forward because he had repressed the memories of abuse and the memories only resurfaced following a breakdown. Robson’s current version is that he always knew what had happened but didn’t realise it was wrong, despite also claiming that Michael Jackson told him he had to lie about what they were doing otherwise they would both go to prison and also being questioned in detail about sexual abuse in the 2005 trial.

Follow the history beginning at posts R6.

Robson’s first course of action was to try and shop a book but when this failed, he launched a creditor’s claim against the Estate of Michael Jackson for millions of dollars.

In his lawsuit, Safechuck claims he only realized he was abused after seeing Robson had filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against the Michael Jackson Estate. However, in the documentary, Safechuck indicates that he made his mother aware of these allegations as early as 2005 and his mother states that she danced when she heard that Michael Jackson passed away in 2009.

Robson and Safechuck are claiming hundreds of millions of dollars in their lawsuits and, as the Michael Jackson Estate pointed out, therefore have hundreds of millions of reasons to lie.

Robson has been caught lying repeatedly during these lawsuits and has concealed evidence not only from the court, but even from his own lawyers. The judge has even found that "no rational fact-finder could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statement."

Safechuck has also lied during his lawsuit. He provided dates when the abuse allegedly occurred but these were factually proven false in court. For example, Michael Jackson was not with Safechuck on some of the dates given.

So far four different lawsuits have failed but they continue to pursue their claims and are appealing the dismissal of their lawsuits.

Dan Reed, director of 'Leaving Neverland', has admitted several times that he chose not to interview anyone who could have provided a different take on these stories. He did not want anyone to be able to discredit the story he wanted to tell. He also did not do any investigation to determine the veracity of the claims made by Robson and Safechuck nor does he provide any evidence whatsoever other than the word of two admitted perjurers. It is clear that the intention of this film is to present Michael Jackson as a pedophile without reference to any of the mountains of exculpatory evidence, all of which the Michael Jackson Estate has said it would have been happy to share.

In the “documentary”, Robson suggests that Michael Jackson abused another of his friends, Brett Barnes. Barnes was never provided with an opportunity to participate in this documentary or to comment on the claims made about him. He vehemently denies that he was ever abused by Michael Jackson and to this day maintains that Michael Jackson was one of the best friends he ever had. Brett Barnes’s attorneys have threatened to sue HBO unless they remove all references to Brett Barnes from this documentary

See more hidden facts by watching the video below.

When James Safechuck and his mother met George Lucas and Harrison Ford, there’s a cute Asian lady who in the photo who appears to be George’s girlfriend. I wonder if this was the mother Santa Barbara shooter Eliot Rodgers who published that incel manifesto when he went of that murder-suicide spree?

She probably is Elliot Rodgers’ mother, the timeline fits.

I can’t read the responses between r137 and r149. It must be the pedophile apologist.

Dan Reed has been brilliant, no more than when he was with Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain.

Every ancillary and vague and accusatory remark Morgan had - Money! Perjury! Me Too! Time’s Up! Corey Feldman! They Already Sued Him When He Was Alive! No, I Meant Those Other Guys! Hey, I Interviewed Michael And Saw Nothing Wrong! - Reed identified the gaslighting for what is was and answered plainly and accurately about the film.

R151 I disagree, and thought that interview was rather damning against Reed.

His refusal to admit that they were suing for hundreds of millions of dollars, or that he should have prevented the other side's rebuttal did not assist his credibility one iota.

It was not Reed’s place to speculate about the legal status of any lawsuits involving Jackson or RobsonSafechuck, since a: he’s not a lawyer, and b: it was never a topic of the documentary anyway.

R152 Reed responded that when you sue an entity, if you win, you may or not receive awards. And that’s a simple fact. There’s nothing to argue about.

It was so refreshing to see Oprah strip away all the “fairy of pop” bogus glory from the story, and to treat Jackson as just an everyman who liked to diddle small boys.

Yep, R150, they're losing it.

What I wonder is how the fuck he got away with "Jew me, sue me, everybody do me/ Kick me, kike me, don't you black or white me". Yeah, he had to make a clean version and issue some half-hearted non-apologies, but soon it was just forgotten. Sure, he was a huge celebrity, but it's still amazing just how easy everyone just let what's basically a classic anti-Semitic screed slide. A classic anti-Semitic screed on an obnoxious album almost entirely about how angry and outraged Jackson was at being accused of molestation by a (half) Jewish kid despite having chosen to settle to the tune of over $20M instead of fighting it out in court. The gall. And people just ate it all up. Jackson could've gotten away with murder no problem.

Spielberg cut ties with him after that song.

NOTHING this person has posted has COME CLOSE to explaining why a grown-ass man had a revolving door of non-related male children--with similar features--ALONE in his bed.

THE END.

R154 His explanation was dodgy. Piers specifically asked why they asked for hundreds of millions and Reed's refusal to just acknowledge they even did and move on was baffling. The same was true when he refused to answer why he believed them "100%" like he offered so generously.

Reed doesn't seem believable, whether with Oprah or on TV and his explanations (like with Brandi Jackson) often come off as sounding shady and elusive,

[quote|NOTHING this person has posted has COME CLOSE to explaining why a grown-ass man had a revolving door of non-related male children--with similar features--ALONE in his bed

This is the question that Jackson fans, with their extraordinary 10,000 word essays and endless hyperbole about Jackson - the world’s most vilified victim - react with only a failure to acknowledge...

Appeals for answers are met with a deafening silence.

[quote]NOTHING this person has posted has COME CLOSE to explaining why a grown-ass man had a revolving door of non-related male children--with similar features--ALONE in his bed.

AND with an alarm system in the hallway outside the bedroom meant to warn the sleeping beauties if anyone is approaching.

R157 Good on Spielberg. But Jackson basically got through the controversy more or less unscathed, especially when you consider just how blatant the racial slurs and general anti-Semitic animus in the song were. He really desensitized the public to all sorts of otherwise unacceptable behaviors with his Peter Pan bullshit. "Oh it's okay, Michael's just sleeping in bed with all those boys because he's so innocent" "Oh don't worry, Michael's not a real anti-Semite. He's just a kid who got confused and didn't know any better" etc. etc.

R158, I absolutely agree he was a child molester whose whole life revolved around getting those little boys into his bed, but would you really say they had similar features? Just looking at his better known "friends", I don't really see much of a common look. Barnes and Chandler resembled each other a bit, and Omer's features were maybe somewhat similar... And I guess you could say Safechuck and Spence as young kids kinda had a broadly similar type of look to each other. But then you have Wade, Macaulay and Cascio(s), neither of whom looked anything like the former, the latter, or each other.

Before he went on the Bad tour, Michael asked James to grow his hair to look more like him.

I guess that explains 6-year-old Wade’s tragic perm.

Get a life, MJ stan. Don't you have anything better to do? Is Michael Jackson your entire life? Sad.

[quote] To move the discussion away a bit from the MJ supporter troll's crap... What do (sane) people here make of Barnes and Frank Cascio allegedly sleeping in Jackson's bed up to their late teens and 20s? It doesn't seem like Jackson was sexually interested in those above 13 or 14 (I can see a kid like Omer being an exception, since he looked so much younger than his age). So was it still sexual at that point or was it something else? The "special friendship" changing into a (still twisted) non-sexual one and just sharing the space because by then it was routine? Or Barnes and Cascio refusing to take the hint and trying their best not to get shut out of Jackson's world and Jackson not caring enough to spell things out for them? Or were they just lying their asses off about it, trying to make him seem like less of a pedophile?

[quote] Tell us, pedo stan, why the children he just ‘loved’ so much aged out of being his special friend? How can that possibly be explained as the actions of a loving man? How could a man who loved children emotionally brutalize them like that? And what could motivate it outside of them growing outside of his pedophilic age preference? Essentially — why did he act in every way like a pedophile, and why don’t you think that matters?

The haters are reaching. He did, but he didn't. Jackson had lifelong friendships with Brett Barnes, Macaulay Culkin (who accompanied him on his 30th anniversary concert), Corey Feldman, Frank Cascio, the Anton kid (whose family just released a glowing statement), Dave Dave (who said MJ was like a father to him), Omer Bhatti (who still hangs out with the Jackson children to this day), and on and on. Even Wade Robson and James Safechuck interacted with Jackson as an adult. Safechuck acted as Jackson's personal assistant in 95.

But it's a no win argument. Either he dumped them or was still grooming them. If it matters, Jackson had long been out of contact with James and Wade by the time of the 2005 trial.

Also Jonathan Spence had a wedding at Neverland.

Culkin lied and continued to lie about having any sort of drug problem. Even when a close friend of his died of a heroin overdose. He will never come clean about Jackson. I always thought he'd be remembered for Home Alone...in all likelihood his legacy is that of a paedophile apologist.

R159, what should he or anyone else be explaining about Brandi Jackson's inane ramblings? She's an irrelevance working overtime trying to insert herself into a story she is only tangentially connected to, and about which she has nothing of value or interest to say. But I'm kinda glad she's trying it, just for the sheer entertainment. Her talking to her pal and Sandusky supporter Ziegler about how Wade spending his youth teaching very intense and tiring choreography and dance classes proves he couldn't have really been abused and anally penetrated was pure gold.

R169 She admitted to having a sexual relationship with Wade while she was still in her teens. Robson claims Jackson raped him at 14, the same time he was having a sexual relationship with her. She did not notice any emotional or sexual issues when anyone who would have gone through that experience at 14 with a much older man would have had lots of issues.

Brandi is also placing intense doubt on the character of Joy Robson, who was not only romantically interested in Michael, but claimed to be godmother of his children after he passed.

Brandi Jackson is a Jackson. She has no credibility.

R170, I'm sure you'll back up that sweeping assertion with some cold, hard research, and not just random assumptions by MJ fans and Brandi Jackson, M.D., noted psychiatrist and proctologist.

R130, I kind of suspected that, too, but would he have been interested enough, or even able, to maintain a sexual relationship with someone in or nearing their 20s? Has he ever been linked to an adult whose relationship with him didn't start with MJ abusing him as a child?

R168 Yep, about as believable as MJ's 2 plastic surgeries. But I would be shocked if Culkin ever talked. As for pedophile apologistor at least enablers, I think it was pretty cowardly of Jordan Chandler not to testify at the Arvizo trial. I know the abuse he went through and everything that followed must have been extremely traumatic, but by the time of the Arvizo trial he was an adult, a millionaire, and (unlike Jackson's other victims) had already gone public with his accusations and had years to process things. He was in a perfect position to help put the pedophile away and weather the storm, yet he just told the FBI he'd "done his part" and sent them on their way.

Thanks for Part 10!!

[quote] Brandi Jackson is a Jackson. She has no credibility.

She's very low key in her private life and not a celebrity. And she doesn't have the multitude of credibility issues that Wade does. And who cares if she's a Jackson? If it were someone who wasn't related, you would just say that they couldn't have known, yet Brandi having spend so much time with both MJ and Wade is definitely qualified to talk.

And if Brandi were so important, why were Wade and Dan Reed so compelled to leave her out of the documentary. Surely, the fact that they dated for so long would be significant.

R176 And if Brandi were so unimportant,

R176 It sure doesn't seem to have been of much significance to Brandi herself, who is yet to produce any actual photos of the loved up teens together.

R178 Why would you keep photographs of someone who lied and cheated on you, and then made an attempt to get back into your life after your famous uncle passes away?

And of all the people she could have talked to, Brandi chose John Ziegler, who is a Sandusky/Paterno apologist. He has pulled despicable stunts such as outing one of Sandusky's victims and harassing Sandusky's son in public (the son who revealed he too was a victim) . He's so toxic the Paterno family publicly disavowed him.

Of course the grifter Jacksons have no problem with these antics. And shameless MJ defenders like R134 have no qualms about pretending this man has any authority on the subject.

Brandi didn’t know Wade was cheating on her with girls in the music community whilst they were “together”, but she claims to be totally certain her pedophile uncle wasn’t raping him.

This bimbo is a woman scorned who knows nothing and is as disgusting as the rest of her pointless family.

[quote] He has pulled despicable stunts such as outing one of Sandusky's victims and harassing Sandusky's son in public (the son who revealed he too was a victim) .

Pot calling kettle black.

Anyway, Brandi has no choice but to pursue alternative media outlets since mainstream coverage has been so slanted.

R181 She suspected he was cheating and was the one who confronted him.

"Brandi had no choice but to talk to a pedo apologist to defend her pedo uncle."

Because, R179, had they really been such a big and important part of each other's lives for so long, like she's trying to convince people, getting rid of every single photo that they both appear in would have been impractical at best and bordering on clinically insane at worst.

I do feel a bit sorry for Brandi, though. On the offchance she did actually consider the supposed relationship as anything more than a trivial puppy love episode, this is kind of a sad way to find out Wade didn't feel the same way about it. But, hey, c'est la vie. And, after all, she is buds with a Sandusky supporter.

Brandi can't produce a picture of her & Wade together? She must be as worthless as the rest of those bloodsuckers. All depending on inheritance from a dead pedo.

[quote] As for pedophile apologistor at least enablers, I think it was pretty cowardly of Jordan Chandler not to testify at the Arvizo trial. I know the abuse he went through and everything that followed must have been extremely traumatic, but by the time of the Arvizo trial he was an adult, a millionaire, and (unlike Jackson's other victims) had already gone public with his accusations and had years to process things. He was in a perfect position to help put the pedophile away and weather the storm, yet he just told the FBI he'd "done his part" and sent them on their way.

I don't think that's fair. I imagine that by 2005, he'd already had all sorts of threats and hassle from Jacko stans, who have always had a reputation for being particularly obsessive. I can understand why he wouldn't want to put himself back in the line of fire. Would his testimony have made any difference, anyway? He'd already spoken out in 1993 and the general public seemed to believe he was lying.

[quote]She did not notice any emotional or sexual issues when anyone who would have gone through that experience at 14 with a much older man would have had lots of issues.

Says who? I was molested at 10 and was having fulfilling sex by 14-15. If anything, having been fondled already made me promiscuous early on and with gusto, not with issues or fear of sex as you imply, since one starts mistaking sex for love (and that’s where the damage begins). Wade being engaged in sexual activity with a girlfriend at the early age of 14 actually follows the pattern of an abused individual to a t.

Jacko stans are INSANE. Chandler had death threats. Just look at the freak on this thread & multiply that by thousands. Deranged shut-ins who have sort of "psychic" link with an absolute degenerate. Not to mention the Jackson machine that smears any and all victims.

That's why I give so much respect to James and Wade. They are incredibly brave for coming forward.

R187 More likely Jordan can't tell the truth because of the settlement. Even if he maintains that Jackson didn't do anything, he would still risk being sued by the estate, which is why we're never going to hear from him.

Come to think of it, R184, maybe we should cut her some slack. She did after all grow up in a very sick family in which pedophilia, and the strange and disturbing things it made the crazy pedo uncle they all lived off of do, were normalized if not celebrated.

R190, no settlement can prevent him from testifying in a criminal case. But I agree with R187: leave Jordie the fuck alone. Likely abused by more than one adult in his life, death threats from psycho fans, parents' ugly custody battle, father commits suicide. We can't possibly know what he's been through or why he decided to flee in 2005.

R191, I too have some sympathy for Brandi. No one in that family could possibly come out perfectly sane and normal. She wasn't even equipped with enough sense to stay away from a nutjob like Ziegler, I can only imagine what other terrible mistakes she'll make in life.

John Francia, a boy whose parents were employees at Neverland. He said Michael hugged, kissed and fondled his genitals in the name of tickling. He settled for $2.8m

Weird how Prince, Paris and Blanket defend their parent but don’t rock the boat this their cousins and uncles. That proves to me all the more that TJ et al are terrified of the money train stopping.

Jason Francia testified at the 2005 trial. Jackson had paid him around the time of the Chandler allegations.

R188 Brandi admits that she didn't have intercourse until after she turned 18. Even if what you're saying is true, then that would have escalated much sooner, given that Wade had already done everything with Michael. And of course Michael, having set them up, was aware they Wade was in a relationship with his niece at the time and wasn't the slightest bit concerned that Wade would display any type of symptoms makes it hard to believe. Of course, you can twist it in any manner of ways to make it plausible for you, but considering that we're asked to accept something happened based on just the credibility of the accuser, most people would find Brandi's account more credible.

Jordan Chandler interview with his psychiatrist, Part of the transcript " Jordie described the seemingly innocent but ever more frequent hugs Michael Jackson gave him, then the “I love you”s they exchanged, next the quick kisses on the cheek that graduated to the kisses on the lips, and finally, French kissing. The transcript of this session includes this passage: Jordie: I said, “Hey, I didn’t like that. Don’t do that again.” Doctor: And what did he say? Jordie: He started crying, much like when he tried to convince my mother to allow us to sleep in the same bed.Doctor: And what did he say? Jordie: He said, “There’s nothing wrong with it.” He would get me to do things and convince me that the things he was doing weren’t wrong because he would talk about people who levitate, you know, it was weird. Doctor: He would talk about people who what? Jordie: Levitate. Doctor: What does that mean to you? Jordie: Rise up from the ground by means of meditating. Doctor: And what did he say about levitation? Jordie: That the people who levitate are unconditioned. It’s confusing; it took me a long time to understand it. Doctor: When you talk about “unconditioned,” what does that mean? Jordie: That they were not conditioned to believe that gravity existed, and I suppose that that meant that those who are unconditioned would find what Michael was doing was not wrong. Do you understand that? Doctor: Uh-huh. What else did he say to you? Doctor: Did you take on any of his qualities? Jordie: I did when I was with him but I thankfully got rid of them. Doctor: What were the qualities? Jordie: His way of speech. He would use words like “hook me up.” That means “get me something.” An erection was “lights.” Doctor: Lights was an erection. Go ahead. Jordie: Cum was “duck butter.” Doctor: Duck butter? That was semen, ejaculate? Jordie: Yeah

R187, I agree that the pressure was insane, and I absolutely don't judge him for not going through with a trial as a kid nor expect him to speak out now that Jackson is dead and can't hurt anyone. But I can't help but judge him some for not stepping up to try and put away an active and prolific pedophile when he had the chance and the FBI sought out his help. His accusations were already public and the fans already hated him, the years of silence not having done all that much to defuse what MJ stans feel for him. If anything, in his silence, the crazy stans keep getting crazier and building up conspiracy theories and passionate expectations that he should come out and defend Jackson. Their hatred just keeps growing as time goes by and it doesn't happen.

I don't know if his testimony could've gotten MJ locked up. Ultimately, probably not, since the Arvizo case itself was so much weaker than the Chandler one, Janet Arvizo was a disaster, and just to make things worse the jury contained some fans and dumb fucks deciding how to vote based on how much Janet annoyed them. Still, Jordan couldn't have known just what a mess the case would turn out to be back when he refused to testify. And his absence certainly didn't help, even though June Chandler was there to tell the jury about how Michael emotionally blackmailed her into leaving her son at his mercy, a transparent pedophile move.

I do try to understand Jordan's point of view, but, I don't know, I guess I just want to believe that in his situation I'd try to help stop an evil and active abuser like MJ.

The Jackson's better get that payoff money ready. Pelicano is released from prison tomorrow.

Pelicano said he "fired" Jackson when he discovered "even darker truths" about what he did to other boys. Pellicano is being released on his 75th birthday tomorrow after serving time for litany of crimes including possession of plastic explosives, wiretapping, racketeering, protection, intimidation, witness tampering and destroying evidence.

And he is coming out with a huge number of celeb secrets in his pocket after gaining fame for going to great lengths to cover up the wrongdoings of the rich and famous.

He warned in a Newsweek interview in 2008: "A lot of people are quaking that I'm going to disclose a lot of things when I get out.

"They'll just have to keep quaking won't they?"

In the same interview he said of Jackson: "I quit because I found out some truths... He did something far worse to young boys than molest them."

And last year he told the Hollywood Reporter he was disgusted by truths "even darker" than the Chandler case.

Why was this old informative thread about MJ and James Safechuck closed few days ago?!!

Why DL is doing this shit, keep deleting and closing Jacko's threads

Omer Bhatti is a sad case. His whole public persona is of a washed up Jackson protege. He would stand a better chance at a real career if he told the truth. Pretty obvious he was Jackson's victim for a few years.

Freaks

Wade Robson is Jussie Smollett (x80)

James Safechuck is Carolyn Donham (Emmett Till)

No words...

Great new piece in Billboard. Peace and power to the survivors.

The MJJ Community forum is a treasure trove. A bunch of angry, whiny, anti-Semitic crazies spinning elaborate, increasingly outlandish conspiracy theories. Just like their idol.

But the most bizarre aspect is just how horny they get over the disgusting, sick freak. They have a fanfiction subforum, with stories with titles like "Did MJ Find Love In The Dark" (a thread with 835 pages!), "Mrs. Jackson", and "Love Affair In Starlight", and, in the pic subforum, a thread called "Michael's Manhood", which I'm sure is hilarious, but I'm way too squeamish to enter. I just don't understand. Why?!? How?!?

Jackson is not an anti semite. He married a Jew, had Jewish children, was close friends with many Jews in his lifetime. Those angered by the song TDCAU know nothing about context.

Wonder if Wade and James are going to pick up some shifts at Captain D’s to start paying back the tens of thousands they owe the estate from their dismissed lawsuits.

R208 It shouldn't be surprising as many still claim that Jackson hated black people and that he didn't have vitilogo even though it was confirmed during his autopsy.

Also wonder if they’ll risk a GoFundMe. If they do, it would be hilarious if the Jacksons got the court to turn the funds over to them, LMAO.

Wade and James tried to (poorly) scam a cohort family of professional scammers, and then got fucked with 70k in legal fees. That’s the justice system at work folks.

Ahh yes, Jackson stans. They love images like this. A man, his child victim and a baby. Grrrrroooosssss

R208, plenty of racists or anti-Semites marry or reproduce with someone from the group they despise. Not that Debbie Rowe was ever anything more than an incubator, and Shmuley Boteach much more than damage control. But, yes, he indeed was extremely close friends with some Jews. Why, just look at his bosom friendship with Jordie Chandler!

Skin lightening creams can cause vitiligo, R210.

And I suppose his nose was affected by the genetic condition of smallpointynoseitis (5:55)

But then again he was simply such a friendly guy. Let us not forget his not at all anti-Semitic buddies from the Nation of Islam.

Random thought: wonder if James can find a publisher this time around for that book (he tried to hide from the estate in discovery).

Probably not, since he gave the story away for free.

Do at least try to keep the names straight, clueless Jackson fanatic at R215.

R216, you’re right. That was Wade. James must have been the one who “forgot” the abuse until he was 35 or so and sued.

Wade Robson only started coming out with the allegations once he was passed over for a choreography gig by the Jackson family, and spent years afterwards attempting to flog his nonsense. He even attempted getting secretive book deals, and this doc was made that flopped...

Leaving Neverland 'LIES' exposed: 'Wade Robson lied about more than Michael Jackson abuse'

Brandi Jackson, who asserts she dated accuser Wade Robson for over 7 yrs (the relationship is NOT mentioned in Leaving Neverland), is very credible.

Dan Reed didn’t even deny they were in a relationship. Said he could have been “seeing” them both.

Sure, Jan.

R199 Jordan seemed like a pretty articulate kid.

“How Leaving Neverland Does a Disservice to Michael Jackson’s Accusers”

“That one-sidedness has less to do with the absence of Jackson’s family than with the film’s lack of candor regarding complicating information about Robson, Safechuck, and two of Jackson’s previous accusers. Viewers inclined to regard the allegations against Jackson with skepticism will find these holes leave room for their misgivings to grow. In glossing over, and sometimes entirely excluding, elements of the factual record, the documentary hobbles its chances to convince skeptics that these men are telling the truth. ”

R213 Rowan Atkinson is so dry, love him.

This could never be made today. Y’ALL ARE CANCELLED, Lipstick Alley would screech. That such parody would be taboo today it shows the level of genius airbrushing the Jackson Estate has done on Michael Jackson’s image now he is not around to destroy it by, well, being himself.

The shady Wade Robson emails to his mom.

So Wade’s argument is that he didn’t know it was wrong at the time, yet he clearly stated in 93 that what Michael was being accused of is “sick,” he seems to have a good understanding to me!

James Safechuck realised that he was abused when Wade Robson said he was abused. Odd how he didn’t realise he was abused when Jordan Chandler and Gavin Arvizo said they were abused.

What MJ’s paedophile stans do not grasp is that it does not matter it Wade wrote a biography. It doesn’t matter if James self-medicated with recreational drugs. It doesn’t matter if Joy is a famewhore. It doesn’t matter if they are suing the Jackson estate and it doesn’t matter if they intend to spend the proceeds on matches and petrol so they can gallivant up and down California committing arson.

None of that changes the fact that as pre-pubescent boys they were summarily groomed and raped by a man who had the gall to do it in plain sight.

I want to PUNCH the pedo troll right in his fat fucking anus. I hate you, the world hates you, go to HELL you child-diddling piece of shit.

Maybe that's why you're so defensive of MJ - BECAUSE YOU TOO ARE A PEDOPHILE CHILD FUCKER.

Rot in hell, you cesspool of dire filth.

Hear, hear R227!

R207 Scrolling by the stans.

R228 is unhinged. Are you the same guy who posts here every night that you were diddled as a kid and so these guys must be telling the truth? Sad.

Anywho, Jamie Lee Curtis deleted her tweet in support of Leaving Neverland. Glad to see she did her research.

What Wade Robson’s obit will probably read:

Also known as “Uncle Pervy”, Wade was best known for sleeping with Justin T’s girlfriend behind his back, making out with his sister Chantal while tripping balls, and trying to ruin a dead man’s legacy for money. He will not be missed.

R230 lol!

James Safechuck doesn't seem to realise how much in the 💩 he is, I can't believe that he would stoop so low and make up false allegations against a man who helped him and his family. Do you really want to be known as Wade's puppet? You could walk now before the 💩 hits the pan

Just in: MICHAEL Jackson fans are suing his alleged victims for “lynching” the singer in the Leaving Neverland documentary.

This is hilarious. Their nutty, frivolous lawsuits got dismissed and now nut jobs are suing them.

Has anyone else not wondered why the ring that James Safechuck said Michael Jackson got him was an adult ring? Too big for a child at the time and only fits him now just as he did a documentary...hmm bullshit!

R231 that actually would be sad. Given your mockery of child sexual abuse victims, it’s little wonder than low IQ you, as a pedophile apologist and troll, think that opening your three browsers and pasting the same articles and images and pathetic jokes over and over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and and over and over and over is either going to convince anyone you are right or really annoy anyone, because we all know what you are. Because it’s increasingly evident that you really get off on Wacko Jackso convincing little boys suck his nipples as their mothers sleep unaware in the next room.

Michael Jackson was a child molester and a rapist. Even if James Safechuck was one of the Russian prostitutes hired to piss on Donald Trump, even if Wade Robson went down on Britney Spears on the front lawn of Hayvenhurst, Michael Jackson raped them. And as a result of that is that he is currently roasting on a spit in hell whilst an audience consisting entirely of women and his father look on, smiling.

R237

[quote]Has anyone else not wondered why the ring that James Safechuck said Michael Jackson got him was an adult ring? Too big for a child at the time and only fits him now just as he did a documentary...hmm bullshit!

No one has wondered this, you fat Frau, because it didn’t fit even his first joint.

I don’t think that the pedophile stans have actually seen the documentary.

Dan Reed said Robson and Safechuck “have no financial interest in the documentary whatsoever.” But both are in debt to Jackson’s Estate by significant sums. Robson owes the Estate almost $70,000", "Safechuck owes the Estate several thousand dollars." (Estate’s statement)

When Geraldine Hughes explained the karma that hit the men who previously tried to ruin MJ, I felt that. Tom Sneddon died painfully of brain cancer and Evan Chandler not only didn't end up with the money (judge made sure his son got it) but committed suicide. Karma is coming for Robson, Safechuck and Reed next.

R208 Ah yes, the context of the song about people "jewing him" and "suing him" being that Jewish people had sued him. Truly a subtle and understated lyrical genius.

r204 eats old people's excrement.

R241 You know, I'm not really superstitious but I do sometimes allow myself to think karma might have been at work. MJ dying a needlessly disfigured, alien-like, heavily drugged laughing stock is a perfect example.

It's pretty bizarre for Jackson's defenders to talk about karma when Jackson was literally taping his nose in place for the last several years of his life and needed anesthesia just to fall asleep.

So Brandi Jackson was basically a beard for her pedo uncle?

Granny Jackson must've paid her a pretty penny to help cover for her "faggot" son.

Does anyone remember this song from 2009?

"Billie Jean was not his lover -

Of course she wasn't, she had a vagina

And she was older than twelve years old"

MICHAEL

JACKSON

RAPED

CHILDREN

GET OVER IT.

Please, Everybody Block Jacko pedo lover/s in this thread, let them talk to themselves.

So what did LaToya and Mama Katherine find? Was it receipts from money he had paid to the parents of boys? What else?

New article at MJ Facts. Great news!

Yes, R250, La Toya specifically mentions seeing evidence of her disgusting brother paying off a garbage man, which was Safechuck's dad's occupation.

Remember that Wade claims to remember what happened but not understanding that it was abuse. Note that in the 2005 trial he wasn't asked whether he was abused or not, but whether MJ touched him, and he said no. Case closed.

MJ touched him. Case closed.

R251 Nothing in that link explains James being threatened with perjury for defending Jackson in 93. Staffers who claimed to witness MJ molesting children named Brett Barnes, Macaulay Culkin, and Wade Robson. They did not mention Safechuck. Additonally, threatening a witness is a felony. In the documentary, that's what Safechuck alleges, not that he was "gauged for his loyalty."

Pellicano better have some good security, because the stans are fucked in the head and will do anything to cover up their idol's pedo ways.

R255 Jackson didn't need any more character witnesses. Tom Meserau already felt that the case didn't need a defense since the prosecution's case was so weak.

^ Except of course that he went ahead and put on a vigorous defense.

Wow, r232...fantasizing about the death of an abuse victim who never did shit to you. Sick fuck.

5 minutes for grandma to tell us about her first experience seeing snow...not even 30 seconds to mention wade was dating his “abuser’s” niece and having to lie to her while it was happening or explaining how the abuse effected his sexual development with girls/women as he aged.

The Safechuck family, who nobody had heard from in 25 years, were being sued for $1 million dollars. Two days after papers were filed, Safechuck "remembered" being abused by Michael Jackson and joined a multi-million dollar civil claim against the Michael Jackson Estate.

People: - Believe the victims! Wade and James are "victims" and they have to be believed!

Macaulay and Brett (labelled as 'victims'): - It's ALL a LIE. NOTHING ever happened.

Also people: -Ooh, I don't believe those two.

R255 Michael gets upset by the rejection, and scared that it might mean that James might somehow speak out against him, and lashes out with a simple threat implying he's not about to sgo down quietly without dragging Safechuck down with him. There. It's explained.

Of course you're right, R257, after all we all remember him constantly arguing with Culkin and Robson trying to send them home cause he had no need for them in the courtroom and wanted to just get the witness thing over with and go home ASAP to watch daytime TV.

James always reminds me of the student who didn't read the assigned chapter in school, so just silently nods in agreement every time his teammate is talking to the teacher to subliminally give off the cue that he too knows the script even if he doesn't. It's just so over-the-top.

BREAKING: a new Michael Jackson victim has come out by the name of Kermit and HBO is doing a new documentary about how Michael was grooming and molesting Kermit the Frog. They were allegedly married in 1993 and here is photographic evidence of the wedding ceremony.

Before the trial started Culkin publicly stated on Larry King that he didn't want to testify and would prefer to stay out of it, but Jackson drags his good friend in to testify anyway even though he doesn't need a defense? Sure, OK.

R263 “Not Guility.” There. It’s explained.

Since American journalists are pretending like evidence doesn’t matter:

(Translated)

“The documentary, broadcast on 19 and 20 March the Nine, presents numerous contradictions and provides no evidence of guilt by the King of Pop“

[quote] Michael gets upset by the rejection, and scared that it might mean that James might somehow speak out against him, and lashes out with a simple threat implying he's not about to sgo down quietly without dragging Safechuck down with him. There. It's explained.

Remember at this point, James doesn't believe any abuse happened. Why would Jackson blow up his entire defense on some ambiguous claim that doesn't even allege sexual abuse?

[quote] Before the trial started Culkin publicly stated on Larry King that he didn't want to testify and would prefer to stay out of it, but Jackson drags his good friend in to testify anyway even though he doesn't need a defense? Sure, OK.

Culkin was an important witness since his name was brought up the prosecution's witness. Plus, unlike the others, Jackson was regularly in contact with Culkin.

Yeah, R261, Safechuck just came out of nowhere. It's not like he was mentioned as a victim of Jackson's by Jordan Chandler and La Toya, or like Quindoy and Levine mentioned Jackson's suspect behaviour with the boy. Nobody could have seen it coming!!

Kermit was way too old, R265. Now, the Teletubbies..

.

Seems like Wade Robson has chosen the wrong person to take this journey with. You can look at Wade and tell he has no morals (or credibility.) Meanwhile, James Safechuck seems as though his front is gonna crack any time now. The bullshit will be revealed.

I guess the truthers are right, there’s a Go Fund Me up for James.

Oh. Wait . It’s actually for Taj Jackson.

It was a heat of the moment threat, R269, not some elaborate plan. And Jackson wasn't a mind reader, he had no way of really knowing what Safechuck believed or intended.

R273 Jackson may not have been a mind reader, but you sure are.

When will the press do its job and ask HBO why Wade Robson told a different version of his first alleged abuse by Michael Jackson in Leaving Neverland than he did under penalty of perjury in his court papers and deposition? It gets to the heart of Robson's credibility.

See posts starting at R6 and on for the story.

You asked for an explanation, R274, like you had some huge gotcha on your hands. I provided a perfectly satisfactory one. So yet again you're back to having nothing.

He was a pedophile & functionality illiterate. Here’s a letter from MJ to LMP. He loved her so much he could stand to spend time with her.

The unbridled passion Lisa speaks of just jumps off the page, R277.

Fuck Norma Staikos was an evil bitch.

He had instructed Safechuck repeatedly to keep it a secret when Jimmy was a child, so you need to be deliberately obtuse not to understand why Jackson could fear that James, being now uncooperative and wanting nothing to do with him anymore, could end up exposing him.

Seriously why isn’t Staikos in prison?

[quote]Oh. Wait . It’s actually for Taj Jackson.

Hah. The family are desperate now that their cash cow's legacy is going to shit. There are only so many times the stans can download the same albums over and over again.

Joe Jackson should have finished the job with Whacko

I want to know what the Jackson clan has on Culkin....because it’s something

Differences Between Leaving Neverland/interviews and the Robson/Safechuck lawsuits

Wade Robson is Jussie Smollett.

Starting from posts R6 and on.

They better keep paying Omer Bhatti. The kid could bring the house of pedo down .

Robsons and Safechuck are suing the MJ Estate for many millions. To do that they have hired a lawyer specialising in settlements. Lied about knowing the MJ Estate to avoid statute of limitations, copied stories from a banned book, messed up their own timeline. Not credible.

R284, maybe he was paid off as some here have suggested, but he's ashamed and close to Paris. That's plenty.

One of their big problems is the timeline. Didn’t Safechuck say that he realised in 2013 that he had been abused by Michael? Yet his happy & smiling mother said that she was dancing when Michael died. Nice of her!!! But Michael passed away in 2009...

I see why their lawsuits were dismissed at their expense. The estate wants their 70k boys.

Agree R289 - his testimony was SO shame based. Really sad

Dan Reed

There's one scary looking guy. He looks serial killer crazy. I scroll quickly whenever his pic is shown.. 👀

He said the fans were like ISIS ,but uh....Dude is stalking Paris Jackson on her Twitter and trying to follow people who knew MJ...

[quote]So what did LaToya and Mama Katherine find? Was it receipts from money he had paid to the parents of boys? What else?

Not really pedo-related, but I remember LaToya saying that Jacko would have cases of jars of skin bleach delivered to the house.

He's not about to deprive himself of a livelihood, R287. And the poor kid basically helped raise Jackson's kids as his (eurgh) cohabiting partner. It's very unlikely he'll talk.

Maybe a less known victim kid might talk, but I doubt any of Jackson's remaining special friends will, at least any time soon.

R290, processing the abuse and fully understanding it for what it really was is not the same thing as knowing it happened.

Wade Robson: Macaulay Culkin replaced me!! Macaulay Culkin: *Has publicly supported Michael*

James Safechuck: Brett Barnes replaced me!! Brett Barnes: *Is suing the documentary for wrongfully saying he was molested*

... and yet we’re supposed to believe them, right?

Great article on Dan Reed’s shadiness

“I wish people would realise, in your last moments on this earth, all the money in the world will be of no comfort. My clear conscience will.” - Brett Barnes

Who, R295? Culkin and (especially) Barnes? Only if you're exceedingly naive.

Germany is still celebrating this pedophile.

[quote]There's one scary looking guy.

You got that right.

Now HBO is doing a flowery documentary on Theranos scam artist Elizabeth Holmes. The irony is just too much!

Do you even know what irony means?

R302 Yes, and it’s hilarious. Serial scam artists Wade and James in one big doc, and ever-elusive whacko from Theranos in the next!

At least one successfully scammed her wealth though. Pedo sympathizer Wade Robson and Weirdo nut James Safechuck only go to see millions from Jackson, but never touch it! How ironic!

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe Lisa Marie when she says she was in love with him. I don't believe her stories about their great sex life, but my instinct is that she did fall for his "I'm so misunderstood, I was damaged by my lack of a childhood" act. People all over the world fell for it. He was a charismatic man. If you watch the Bashir documentary, you can see that even though he looked like a freak and did all kinds of fucking insane things (talking about sleeping with young boys, dangling his baby over a balcony, claiming he'd had no plastic surgery except for two nose jobs), he STILL had a natural charm to him.

In Leaving Neverland, James, Wade and their mothers talked about how vulnerable MJ appeared, how special he made them feel, what an honour it was to believe that a global superstar needed THEIR support, etc. It seems natural to me that when he needed a beard, he would seduce her in much the same way.

Dan Reed is going to go down worse than Martin Bashir. This is unethical and one-sided film making that will go down in the books as how not to tell a story.

[quote] He had instructed Safechuck repeatedly to keep it a secret when Jimmy was a child, so you need to be deliberately obtuse not to understand why Jackson could fear that James, being now uncooperative and wanting nothing to do with him anymore, could end up exposing him.

Apparently he had nothing to fear because according to you, he had already paid off his victims. It's convenient that you use that excuse to explain why there are not innumerable victims, but then find James' story of being threatened by MJ completely credible.

Dan Reed groomed and abused me for 4 hours with his pedo propaganda. I'll never recover from all the disgusting lies that have been told. I've got trust issues with the media. All because of LN.

R307 I think we should all sue him

R66 Oh RIGHT, Taj Jackson's GoFundMe "rebuttal" documentary, which if it ever gets made, will be a miserable flop just like every other Jackson family venture. This will flop harder than the Jackson Family Honors.

r303, you fantards are too scared to watch "LN", and too poor to afford HBO.

R308 1 million for every hour AT LEAST. That's 4 hours none of us can get back. And therapy costs ain't cheap

R67 not R66

R309 There are many high quality rebuttal videos on Youtube that have been heavily researched that are on Youtube (some are quite lengthy too), but it would be nice to see a counter documentary with high production values made with the participation of Jackson's friends and family.

I wonder if we sue Dan Reed for $1.5 billion will he still think we have no financial motivations?

Well Dish cancelled my HBO for me (I still got to watch the documentary) and I don't miss it at all.

[quote]it would be nice to see a counter documentary with high production values made with the participation of Jackson's friends and family.

Nothing's stopping the Jacksons from making one. I'm sure they can scam the Jackaloons into funding it.

R315 I didn’t even think of that—time to vote with our $$$. I’m going to call Comcast and cancel my HBO/Showtime package with my feedback also.

Dan Reed says that Michael Jackson fans have set about to discredit his film. No Dan, the three of you, along with Oprah are doing a mighty fine job of that yourself. Ya'll keep doing your interviews. We are hungry for even more of your fuck-ups.

Taj will spend the money on exotic hair products...I highly doubt that "film" will get made.

The only comeback I get from these cretins is that "He shared his Bed, He shared his Bed!" and as I keep replying MJ didn't keep that a secret, it was well known but no evidence of any abuse took place in said bed. Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed??

R103 Gimme a break! MJ stan(s) screaming about "there's no evidence." Then when someone brings up actual evidence - like Safechuck's rings, it's all "why the hell did he keep them?" Pathetic.

[quote]I’m going to call Comcast and cancel my HBO/Showtime package with my feedback also.

LOL, like they give a fuck. For every one that cancel, 10 will sign up or find a way to watch the documentary.

R316 Given the track record of failed Jackson business ventures - i'm sure it'll take off as well as JoCola!

r320, the stans are eat up with the retardedness, and totally incapable of grasping any logic whatsoever.

Is Taj the family member that molested Paris?

R324 I thought she claimed a stranger molested her.

R321 The strength is in numbers, and as MJ’s supporters have shown, they have the numbers.

"We", who r315? Which Jackson are you?

R327 —See R307 and R308. We are traumatized and want reparations.

R306, MJ did pay off many, but there's no special explanation needed for why there aren't "innumerable victims". Few men come forward with childhood sexual abuse, let alone to the international public, and let alone about abuse at the hands of a posthumously all-but-sainted superstar. And while MJ was a pretty prolific and succesful predator, his MO wasn't like that of Savile whose victims you might describe as "innumerable".

r328, nobody made you watch "LN".

You stans are pathetic.

R330 They're just worked up at the moment about the interview in Billboard. Good. Seethe, stans, seethe.

The prosecution was devastated even before the defense called their first witness. During cross examination, Tom Meserau asked Gavin, "What are you so mad at Michael Jackson?" His response was, "Because he stopped calling me." If that wasn't bad enough, Gavin's mother gave completely unhinged testimony. Meserau let her dig her own grave. The case was pretty much over at that point. Sneddon apparently held his head in hands during the whole testimony.

[quote]The strength is in numbers, and as MJ’s supporters have shown, they have the numbers.

Put the pipe down. There are like, two stans posting here over and over again. For every MJ supporter, there are 1000 people who believe he was a pedo. The docu has already aired, with millions having viewed it. Organizations don't want to be affiliated with Jacko. The legacy is rapidly dying on the vine. The numbers of the fans left mean shit in the big picture.

R333 How many watched the documentary— 2, maybe 3 million?

How many fans does MJ have? Try hundreds of millions.

MJ could sell out a concert in Bucharest without even promoting it. His fans are unconcerned.

To the all stans posting here : MJ wouldn't have wanted to rim you since you're over the age of 11. You can get off his mottled ghost dick now.

These fragile white boys thought they were getting hundreds of millions from their little lie, but ended up being attacked by hundreds of thousands of people AND 70k in debt.

“Congratulations, you played yourself.”

MJ-Haters: This will ruin his legacy. No one will look at MJ the same again!

Everyone else: Michael Jackson to Stay in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Is Michael Jackson Too Big to Cancel? After 'Neverland,' The Industry Says Yes

Dan Reed says he wants to make a follow-up film about MJ, but thinks he will have a hard time doing so. No shit, Sherlock?

Why not just being Bubbles on stage next. He’ll have more credibility than Wade and James and he wouldn’t even have to say anything.

#truth - Fucking nutters

R340 “A guest blog by Stuart Waterman from My Chemical Toilet…”

Seems legit

R335, our most prolific pedotard claims to be 21. Maybe it thinks it can shave off ten years and pass.

Don't even bother, R335. The deluded fans will always be warm for the pedo's gruesome, disgusting form. They fill hundreds upon hundreds of pages with their disturbed sexual fantasies and keep trying to convince themselves he was an insatiable straight guy who seduced anonymous artists and other mysterious ladies all over the place. Sure, no one knows who or where, or when he would have even had the time what with his busy play date schedule, but for the stans it's an article of faith. Hey, maybe it happened while his little friends at Neverland were taking their afternoon naps.

I wonder if the anti-MJ faggoty white, eldergay racists who somehow figured out how to use their computer this morning and go straight to DL have appropriate protections on their pedo porn collections? You know what they say, those who continually accuse others of shocking behavior are trying to hide something themselves....

I alsowonder who we will see on the news first, the 62 year old OP at R343 or the 81 year old salivating at the mouth from R342. I vote for the former, and will submit a report to NCMEC and ChildLine as I am a mandated reporter and have no qualms about sending you to federal prison. Wipe your hard drives men, because DL has probably already released your IP address to the appropriate authorities.

Loved this art

Actually, R343, there does seem to be a lot of sexual resentment driving fans to attack Wade and James. "How dare he care for those pretty little boys and not me."

Wade Robson is actually, unbelievably worse than Jussie Smollett.

R344, wonderful of you to call gay men “faggots” and make pedophile accusations against innocent gay men on a gay message board. Fuck off back to iVillage, or LSA, or whatever ghoul board you came from.

His delicate tongue pierced the thin pink veil of my young brown anus. I couldn’t help myself but laugh and squeal that Michael had chosen me to be his special boy after our secret wedding ceremony.

“Hee-he. -hee” exclaimed Michael, and at that moment I knew we were husband and wife”

Freaks

Rae Dawn Chong ‏

@Rae_Dawn_Chong Jan 27 More Thing is POC have a hard time revealing past issues. We are culturally hiding behind our fierceness. MJ slept with little boys and everyone including his family allowed it. Why? He was "the bank".a grown man sleeping with young children isn't innocent. 25 replies 1 retweet 9 likes Reply 25 Retweet 1 Liked 9 Direct message

Rae Dawn Chong ‏

@Rae_Dawn_Chong Jan 28 More I know in my world if a grown man prefers little children to the exclusion of people his own age? Red flag. I suspect Every single person arguing with me? Doesn't want to know that he slept with children period. He admits as much. I don't need to be FBI. So deal with it. Or not.

Wade Robson is Jussie Smollett

James Safechuck is Covington Catholic MAGA Inbreds

Apparently, more than the interview itself, MJ supporters on Twitter are angry over Billboard's "fashion/boyband photoshoot". Always glad to see them outraged, but I don't get how the photoshoot is supposed to be either of those things. What is it that supposedly makes the photos so offensive? Should they not be allowed to promote the documentary at all?

Dan Reed, director of 'Leaving Neverland', has admitted several times that he chose not to interview anyone who could have provided a different take on these stories. He did not want anyone to be able to discredit the story he wanted to tell. He also did not do any investigation to determine the veracity of the claims made by Robson and Safechuck nor does he provide any evidence whatsoever other than the word of two admitted perjurers. It is clear that the intention of this film is to present Michael Jackson as a pedophile without reference to any of the mountains of exculpatory evidence, all of which the Michael Jackson Estate has said it would have been happy to share.

French people are so smart. The comments are extremely positive, everyone is defending Michael Jackson. 🇫🇷❤️ . The same is true across the U.K. and Europe.

American journalists are so unethical. Just like Jussie and Sandmann, they will end up looking foolish when the facts are broadcast to millions in the rebuttal documentary. +1 R6 and on.

R354 It’s insane that the Wackos are offended by a photo shoot of three men looking exactly the same as they always do. The only images of Wade and James they want is that of Jackson sexually abusing them. They are truly sick fucks.

Dan Reed is being interviewed and Leaving Neverland has been lauded by some of France’s most impressive media outlets.

French reaction to LN

A recent “like” by Paris Jackson on Twitter. The broad is a moron.

R358 Lol. Are you joking? "Most impressive media outlets." Paris Match is the American equivalent of Entertainment Weekly.

From a real journalism source:

Fallait-il mieux documenter le cas d’autres enfants, dont l’acteur Macaulay Culkin et Sean Lennon, le fils de John Lennon et de Yoko Ono, qui ont témoigné n’avoir jamais subi d’attouchements de la part du chanteur ?

La myriade de détails – concordants, mais Wade et James se connaissent depuis six ans –, qui finit par composer un portrait évidemment à charge du chanteur disparu en 2009, a mis en fureur ses fans et sa famille. Celle-ci, poursuivie au tribunal par Wade Robson, a protesté publiquement, à la télévision nord-américaine, qualifiant le documentaire de « lynchage public », avant même de l’avoir vu. Et réclame à HBO 100 millions de dollars de dommages et intérêts.

R357 Doesn't exist, because they were never abused.

Anyone who thinks James and Wade are telling the truth, I have an oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

"Robson filed a $1.5 billion civil lawsuit/creditor’s claim in 2013. He first filed it under seal (a procedure allowing sensitive or confidential information to be filed with a court without becoming a matter of public record), in the hope of reaching a financial settlement with the Jackson Estate.

"To be clear, the judge ruled that Jackson’s companies were not liable for any possible actions by Jackson; he did not rule on the credibility of the men’s allegations. But the trial judge in Robson’s initial case against the Estate disregarded his sworn statements on a summary judgment motion.

"Jackson estate attorney Howard Weitzman said Robson was “caught lying repeatedly” in the dismissed litigations.

"Weitzman added: 'The trial judge found one of Robson’s lies so incredible that the trial judge disregarded Robson’s sworn declaration and found that no rational trier of fact could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statements.'"

Just read the billboard interview and not surprisingly, it contains more provable lies. For one, Wade claims to have walked away from the MJ show because he was dealing with emotional problems. The real reason was he was offered a directing gig for a movie but when that didn't work out, begged to return. Both men hardly mention sexual abuse. Instead they mention being discarded by Jackson even though James could be seen working with Jackson as an adult, and Wade felt comfortable enough to ask Jackson to have his wedding at Neverland and have BBQs with the family. Sounds like they were replaced to me.

Michael Jackson paedophile appreciation troll - do you have friends? Or suitable meds? I’m serious here...

The documentary should have been called “Gold diggers at Neverland”

What makes this especially sad is that Wade and his mother were supposedly very protective of Paris and the kids, and now they are hurting them.

Michael Jackson fans (ironically) have the reasoning power of 3rd graders. Anything that comes into their world view that doesn’t make Jackson look good it’s tantrum time.

R364 The anti-MJ haters are just racist old white men on DL. Most of the hundreds of millions of Jackson's fans don't care about these obviously false allegations.

Wade and James can dig themselves into another 70k in Jackson's legal fees as far as I'm concerned. It'll be fun to see the Jackson companies conduct post-judgment discovery (interrogatories, requests for production of documents, depositions, etc.) to uncover their sources of income and assets. Besides, Oprah is cancelled but I'm curious if she didn't pay them like she claimed.

Garnish their bank accounts and so forth. Their financial problems started this, and more will result from it.

Why are they “obviously” false? Michael admitted he shared his bed with year in and year out with little boys. Even his own wife Lisa Marie said she never slept in the same bed as MJ because there were always little boys in his bed, and she said that they would even follow him when he went to the bathroom. What kind of man (except one that holds a medical degree) does that?

Unfortunately for Wade and James, you can't sue someone for being a bad parental figure when it's not even their responsibility. It doesn't bring in the moolah. MJ encouraged them to pursue a career in film because that's what he himself was interested in. It's hard to feel sorry for them when both found relative success early in their careers and chosen professions.

R371 Exactly, and while MJ may not have supported them as extensively as they wanted (and he did plenty for them and their families), it does not equate to abuse in any way shape or form. 1.5 billion.....crazy. Keep dreaming Wade.

There is no such thing as a “pure & innocent” grown man who likes to share his bed with an unrelated small child. Only a pervert would ever consider doing such a thing.

Dan Reed is incredibly intelligent & guided by a core of compassion. Great interview and he’s completely on point.

Jackson was single - needed to sleep with little boys Jackson was married - still needed to sleep with little boys Jackson was on tour- little boys needed to travel with him and share his bed Jackson had his “own” children - he still needed to sleep with little boys

He should have been tortured to death. What a monster.

Wade Robson is a serial, jealous liar Safechuck is a whacko who can barely keep it together. Dan Reed is an MJ obsessed fanatic

[quote] Robson and Safechuck also described the mixture of shame, guilt, fear and love that compelled them to deny the abuse for years, with Robson even testifying on Jackson’s behalf in a 2005 child molestation trial. And they insisted that their goal in making the film was less to incriminate Jackson than to connect with survivors by telling their truth.

It's about money. Stop bullshitting us.

Oh, it’s not Dan Reed that’s the MJ obsessed fanatic r376

It’s money, it’s racism, it’s all the children’s fault.... It looks the Jacksons are having problems even finding a court judge who’s willing to reside over their court case in California.

You only have to look at that picture of Wade Robson at R379 and compare them to the year before to see those are not eyes of a care free ten year old.

They are weary looking, life-experienced eyes that have seen too much that ever should be intended for a child. I noticed in pictures of Safechuck that he too also lost his innocent face almost as soon as he took up with Jackson.

R380 Sure Sherlock

R380 I watched the video of him as a child where he and his family first defend Michael. They not only defend Michael in absolute terms, but show no signs of discomfort at all.

How much Saint Michael cares about children.

Michael Jackson, SONY et al. vs HBO/Time Warner lawsuit will be interesting but likely predictable. Enough time will pass for most of us to forget; the two entities will then enter into an ostensibly quiet and multi-million dollar settlement.

It'll be ironic for James and Wade, who in trying to sue for 1.5 billion will have made the Jackson family millions richer and themselves tens of thousands in legal fees poorer (they are already indebted to the estate 70k+ and rising soon).

Maybe Wade will get his book published by Oprah to offset some of the debt and keep the powerful family from taking his house.

On the bright side, people like R374 might donate to the occasional Dan Reed Kickstarter project, but like Bashir his reputation will suffer. Any of his subjects will be haunted by the belief that he will turn on them, so his work will consist of hit pieces on indie film networks and YouTube because the powerful Jackson family will never let him work again (even he's somewhat acknowledged it will be difficult.)

Finally; 5 years from now few of us will remember this Jussie Smollett level drama, until "Beat it" comes onto the radio or in a nightclub, and an image of Britney Spears' ex (what was his name again?) will quickly flash through our minds as we keep dancing to the beat.) Yes, we'll still associate him with the various celebrities he has mooched off of. Then again, we forgot Gavin Arvizo (who honestly remembered that name before this?). The movie will fade into HBO's vault as a result of the settlement, but zealous MJ haters may still be able to stream it online and continue posting on message boards.

James Safechuck: multi-decade relationship, father, long term research director at a tech firm, has remained thin and handsome.

We all know how the average Michael Jackson behaves.

I wonder what Oprah has heard on the downlow over the years. I am betting she has been privy to some things to come out so strongly in support of James and Wade

What is it that makes MJ fans so deranged? Has there ever been a celebrity with such a certifiable fandom? For decades now, his cult has been at this crap. He’s such a bizarre figure to inspire this religious level of adoration and delusion. Some of his music was good, but not THAT good. I don’t get it

I’m sure Oprah heard stuff and Leaving Neverland was a confirmation that convinced her. Oprah saw it at Sundance and as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse herself knew they were telling the truth.

When the Jacksons’ revenue stream dries up as they persue frivolous lawsuits, it will be beautiful.

There is no reason for HBO to settle with the Jackson estate, R384. You can’t disparage or defame the dead, and, in any event, the estate itself is already on record with the IRS as claiming that, at Jackson’s death, his name and reputation had been rendered worthless by the child molestation allegations.

R387 - I totally agree. I of course knew his fame - it was hard to escape, but I never appreciated his music. He was never some great vocal talent. He was original and his novel style was certainly emulated. I guess that is all that I can say. As a 6 yoa kid, I know that he was a weirdo (of course I had no clue that he was also a pedo - at least not back then).

Whitney Houston for all of her shortcomings will go down in history as one of the greatest voices that we have ever experienced/heard and Madonna will go down as perhaps the greatest performer and personality - at least of the 1980's and 1990's. MJ will always be known as the greatest selling performer of the 1980's, but honestly he did not have the longevity of the others. By the 1990's, he was too weird and frankly his lame music, androgynous look and dated style were no longer relevant. That said, his momentum and sales were so great from his 1980's era juggernaut albums that he never needed to do much else. By the time his pedo scandals started surfacing - you were either a crazed fan or not a fan at all. Many of us knew that he was a freak and we well over him. By the 1990's, Janet was the more exciting artist.

*we were well over him*

R391 His longevity surpasses Whitney, Madonna, Elvis, Aretha, etc. without effort really. Even in death his music or dance is inspiration to (probably almost every) famous singer/performer. Adjusted for inflation, the King of Pop has made $2.1 billion since his death.

I remember the impression that HIStory was a flop and the whiny, sentimental tracks that drip from it - EARTH SONG, YOU ARE NOT ALONE, STRANGER IN MOSCOW - obviously suck. He went full adult contemporary, which may be obvious for an aging baby boomer, but pretty ill conceived for someone grounded in R&B. There wasn’t a decent jam there - hell, how much better had it been if JAM was there? - nothing harder like DIRTY DIANA, and the ballads weren’t funky like MAN IN THE MIRROR or exultant like HUMAN NATURE.

And lyrically it was by fast his worst. Just complete drivel.

His decline musically in the late 80s is certainly reflected in how chopped up is face had become and also in the condition of his skin. The obsession with small boys also becoming full blown mania at the same time is in tune with the rest of his disorders.

Poor Michael, if Sony had even gave a single fuck about him other than over money, and found him a good psychiatrist it might not have culminated in the raid at Neverland and we might have got at least one more decent album from him. But as Michael was his own worse enemy and only listened to yes men, it was probably too late by then anyway.

“Poor Michael??!!!”

R385 "has remained thin and handsome"

The only thing that matters on DL.

R394 Are you living in reality? Attacking Jackson is one thing but "You are not alone," "Stranger in Moscow," "Earth song," etc. do not "obviously suck."

You might not like a song, but it didn't win a Guinness world record for debuting at #1 on the billboard 100s for X amount of time because it "obviously suck[ed]." Pure stupidity from MJ Haters, but they call use illogical...

If the things Dan Reed says in this interview are correct, I think he owes it to the public to do a follow up to LN, this time from the POV of the police investigators and the persons who were involved in the legal procedures.

I think Oprah and Gayle saw the film on David Geffens yatch, not at Sundance. They screened it on her birthday and then Gayle tweeted about it. It all seemed kinda dark for a birthday, but, eh, the rich are not like you and me. There were then rumors that she and Geffen were involved in the financing, which I do not believe are true. She and Gayle sure came out swinging to help promo it though. Gayle did a morning show interview with the men that is well worth a watch, in addition to the Oprah interview.

yacht

need coffee

Jackson was never going to pay for his crimes in any legitimate way. He paid in other ways, with his ill health, damage to is reputation and watching the lives of his loved ones being destroyed. He did that all by himself. Jesus Christ, he dangled a small baby out of the window from a seven story building, that alone would have put a normal person in jail for at least two years.

I don't know if you were around in the 90s, r399, but Michael Jackson was musically out of step with what was hip in popular music at that time. Hip-hop, indie rock and singer-songwriter lesbifolk were on the the rise and the 80s superstars had to change or get lost. Madonna reinvented himself with RAY OF LIGHT, Bruce Springsteen dissolved the E Street Band, Prince and George Michael did battle with WB and SONY, the 70s rockers like Don Henley and Phil Collins who segued into Adult Alternative in the 1980s were pushed out by Celine Dion and Michael Bolton, glam metal was destroyed by grunge... and Michael Jackson released HIStory.

His messianic image and Cold War, militaristic imagery no longer work. Earth Song was an joke and Michael Jackson using images linking starving African babies with his own self-inflicted ego at the height of his God Complex was disgraceful. Jarvis Cocker summed it up at the BRIT Awards.

Conversely, the remix album with BLOOD ON THE DANCEFLOOR and the excellent MORPHINE had an edgier and more industrial sound and were better artistic statements, but as MJ was well into the Public Joke phase of life it didn't get as much attention as it probably deserved.

^ Apologies, I meant r398.

R385 I haven't seen any indication that Safechuck has a Computer Science, Data Science, etc. degree, which will make the tech firm + research anything a nonstarter. He works at a small ad agency as a senior engineering lead (what is he engineering?). His current employer, AvatarLabs, has a client relationship with SONY, who is of course invested hundreds of millions in Michael Jackson's enterprise. Look at AvatarLabs' retweets... That must be immensely concerning in terms of job security.

The ad industry in LA is very closed-loop, and the estate and SONY are TBWA loyalists (my first job), whose CHIAT/DAY office in LA is an immensely powerful group (moreso than CD/NY.) Ad industry blacklisting is worse than in tech industry blacklist, and SONY is also a tech company. There are more effective ways for the Jackson estate to go after James than a rebuttal documentary.

Also re R405, AvatarLabs' biggest client accounts belong to Disney, SONY, HBO, EA, etc. It's a bad time to be a software developer when you are responsible for entertainment, technology, and advertising agencies scrambling to avoid losing millions of dollars in investments. Especially since reputation is everything to them.

Notably, MJ's fans haven't haven't caught wind about his employer yet, but they must be prepared for the inevitable "leak."

r405

[quote] He works at a small ad agency as a senior engineering lead (what is he engineering?).

Spaceshuttles, Rose.

I wonder had he lived, if he would have tried to rationalize and confess these relationships. I really think in his crazy mind he thought these were normal relationships and the public didn't understand. He was getting more deranged as time went on. Were there any 'special friends' with him around the time he died?

Why is that fucking pedo defending troll going on about James' ring now? They were literally caught on camera while going jewelry shopping. You can't explain away this you fucking pedo freak.

R409 No one mentioned the "rings," which are obviously fakes. Safechuck's plan fell apart, when it was revealed that he didn't purchase anything at the jewelry store lol.... It was a nice attempt though--but like everything else he and Wade have tried to do, it falls apart because the evidence does not hold up.

Maybe he can pawn some of those rings to start paying back the 70k+ he and Wade owe the estate.

MJ was at the top of his game in 93. This Superbowl performance still gives me chills.

Michael gave away gifts indiscriminately to almost everybody. He should've been less trusting of these people but again, doesn't prove anything.

R403 That's funny because Jackson was under enormous pressure to produce a sequel to Bad,but instead he released Dangerous, which was a fantastic album and different from anything he released before. History was his most personal album, took lots of risks, and Earth Song, perhaps is his best vocal performance of all time. It was very successful. I agree that Morphine is criminally underrated, as is Ghosts, Is it Scary, and Superfly Sister. Invincible was far ahead of its time as well but Sony was successful in burying it.

Wade Robson is Jussie Smollett

R411 And just think, from that glorious peak in Jan 1993 he was just weeks away from it all being taken away.

Holy shit, EARTH SONG at the BRITS. I forgot what a shit show that was.

It actually gets worse after Jarvis Cocker scampers off stage. Michael Jackson strips, emerges in a Jesus costume and embraces a little blond boy and just as you think he couldn’t get any worse, he blesses a Rabbi.

What is comical is how the fans are struggling to continue their support. If I had a hero who I worshipped as much as they do their pedohero ( and nobody sane does ) I wouldn't want to have to employ the constant refrain 'It doesn't prove anything' in their defense

I think there are probably 3 MJ stans at most here.

If only Robson and Safechuk (sp?) had simply come forward earlier instead of lying...things would have turned out differently. We’re the parents afraid of the gravy train coming to a halt? All those gifts, paying off mortgages and cash and cars? Don’t tell me that the parents didn’t know...they didn’t want to see.

A petition requesting an FBI investigation of Wade, James and Oprah, for crimes including Wade’s racially charge mention of Jackson’s hair feeling like a Brillo Pad when obviously he had a wig of Caucasian origin!

What happened to Wade’s and his sister’s Australian accents?

R420 Oh, of course. Describing the sensations you experienced while you were being molested in non-PC terms is part of the real issue we need to address.

If a biopic or mini-series is made about MJ and his crimes. Margot Robbie can play Brooke Shields.

Cops knew the walking pedo corpse was guilty

[quote]The ad industry in LA is very closed-loop, and the estate and SONY are TBWA loyalists (my first job)

Wait. I thought you were a “young gay” on PrEP having hot condom-slipping sex with other students?

There's actually two stans. I blocked them both & can't see any posts supporting a child raping monster. They literally post every five seconds.

What does it tell you that the MJ haters keep posting that EVERYONE believes Wade and James over and over when it's not clearly not the case?

If they say it enough times, do they believe it will magically come true?

Obviously, the majority of people (including Jackson's fan base, which is many millions) do not believe these people. It's disingenuous to pretend that social media and public opinion are in favor of the accusers, when Jackson's streams are rising and people are donating tens of thousands in micro-donations to GoFundMe campaigns that oppose the one-sided documentary. Do a search on any social media site for "Michael Jackson," do not take my word for it, and you will see the issue is divided at the very least.

The reality is that these accusers are serial liars, and this is obvious from posts beginning at R6 which outline some of the dozen plus clearly provable falsehoods involved in their lawsuits alone.

Another more bizarre angle of attack concerns the people who think that saying idiotic statements about his music is the best way to support Wade and James.

You all keep repeating this idea that not only are LN supporters the only logical, unbiased heroes in this scenario (who follow the "facts)," but that everyone who argues that the numerous lies, duplicitous behavior, spontaneous recollections, and clearly disprovable claims made in the accuser's lawsuits make their stories extremely not credible are just "pedo supporting trolls" and "stans" with an agenda.

Yet you also say things like "Thriller is the only real song MJ made. His music declined after that" and "MJ is not that great of an artist, what about Elvis, Beyonce, Madonna, whatever." I mean, really? Are we really going to argue that Elvis and Madonna are better artists than Michael Jackson? Is Michael jackson really not the top-selling, most inspiring artist/dancer to this day? Does that seem logical? Does that make sense to you? The rest of the world lives in reality and accepts these things to be true without bearing on his character because it's just a fact. No other artist has come close. Sorry, but no. If you think you can name someone else (you cannot,) then I think the problem we are facing in evaluating the credibility of these accusers is more monumental than I realized.

Wade and James' monumental credibility issues that are spurred by a failed (and almost completely different narrative in their) 1.5 billion dollar lawsuit dismissed for statue of limitations and subsequently because the judge determined it was lies (they amended the complaint and it was thrown out for substance issues--not SOL,) lack of any mention of abuse until 2012/2013 when one began shopping a book deal, conflicting claims about forgetting/not realizing/misunderstanding abuse, claiming they thought they would go to "jail" in their twenties for speaking up, lying compulsively in different lawsuits, giving completely conflicting narratives of abuse, and a host of other very illogical, very questionable actions and statements that make up the very compelling defense that the Jackson family can easily present to draw doubt on these two people.

R418/R426 at least 1 is JanBot, possible more.

[quote]for crimes including Wade’s racially charge mention of Jackson’s hair feeling like a Brillo Pad when obviously he had a wig of Caucasian origin!

And God forbid it would occur to him to take the wig off while fellating these little boys, right?!

Wade could have easily been made to feel his real hair, dumbass

Brilliant post R428. It would be fun to play that game.

Isn't Madonna only known for Like a Virgin and Like a Prayer. She only had a few other good songs but did most adult contemporary in the 90s. Oh, and she's a shitty actress. Next.

Elvis didn't write any of his songs. He stole his sound from Chuck Berry. His later career was a joke. He died a drug addict. Blah Blah Blah

Yeah, under the wig or through the wig you would feel the nappy hair too - signed PoC

R432 MJ was partially bald due to the Pepsi accident. And the wigs he wore weren't nappy.

WACKO JACKO-STANS FUCK OFF

It could have been the wig that felt stiff/rough. He was still styling his hair in curls at the end of the 80s, kind of like long jheri curls. Assuming Michael was wearing high-end real hair wigs, he likely needed a lot of product even on the wigs to keep the curls in place.

I got rid of HBO years ago. But the day after Neverland aired, I got it back to reward them.

I suspect I'm not alone. This doc will prove to be a big boon for them.

Partially bald still leaves a lot of strong African hair at the disposition of the fingers made to feel it.

Simple Facts -- 1. Robson and Safechuck have sworn under oath that Michael Jackson NEVER did anything inappropriate. Robson was questioned in detail during Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 and repeatedly denied any wrongdoing by Michael Jackson from age 23 and beyond. He denied any form of abuse well into adulthood.

2. In 2011, Robson quit his role as director of the film Step Up 4 and was rejected for the lead choreography job in the Michael Jackson themed Cirque du Soleil show. It was following this rejection that he suddenly realized he had been abused, and began writing a book draft.

3. Previous versions of Robson’s story state that he did not come forward with his claims any sooner because he was ashamed. This was then changed to not coming forward because he had repressed the memories of abuse and the memories only resurfaced following a breakdown. Robson’s current version is that he always knew what had happened but didn’t realize it was wrong, despite also claiming that Michael Jackson told him he had to lie about what they were doing otherwise they would both go to prison and also being questioned in detail about sexual abuse in the 2005 trial. (See R62, R63, R64, R65 for documents)

4. Robson’s first course of action was to try and shop a book but when this failed (no publisher would accept it,) he launched a creditor’s claim against the Estate of Michael Jackson for millions of dollars. (Documents and outcome at R52, R53)

5. These accusations have been made after Michael Jackson passed away. The law does not currently protect the deceased from defamation and, therefore, Robson and Safechuck are free to attack Michael Jackson and make whatever claims they want against him without fear of legal repercussions for defaming him. However, one of Robson’s narratives was so incredibly altered that the trial judge disregarded Robson’s sworn declaration and found that "no rational trier of fact could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statements.'"

Who the fuck are Wacko's creepy fans on here? Are you pedos too?

^^Perfect example of R428

So far four different lawsuits have failed but they continue to pursue their claims and are appealing the dismissal of their lawsuits.

Yet each lawsuit has a different wacky narrative that contradicts the previous ones and now the documentary. They’re already 70k in debt to the estate for court costs and legal fees. They will never see a jury and are just embarrassing themselves at this point.

r344 eats old people's excrement.

[quote]MJ could sell out a concert in Bucharest without even promoting it. His fans are unconcerned.

Is Bucharest the new name for Hell? Because that's the only venue where dead pedos are performing.

Simple Facts:

1. Michael Jackson shared his beds with unrelated young boys ages 7 to 14, while their parents were sent to limousined shopping sprees or big fancy suites at the other side of the hotel.

2. Oh, who are we kidding DO WE NEED ANY MORE FACTS?

I love you R443

Note to pedo troll : get help

The only comeback I get from these cretins is that "He shared his Bed, He shared his Bed!" and as I keep replying MJ didn't keep that a secret, it was well known but no evidence of any abuse took place in said bed. Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed?? Would the kids to this day really announce that no abuse happened in them?

[quote]Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed??

An arrogant, maniupulative one with naïve retarded fans would.

[quote]A petition requesting an FBI investigation of Wade, James and Oprah, for crimes including Wade’s racially charge mention of Jackson’s hair feeling like a Brillo Pad when obviously he had a wig of Caucasian origin!

R420, pedo Jackson didn't shave his head, you fucking retard.

R447 Sure, Dr. Phil.

That makes perfect sense! Almost as much sense as Wade's repeated, discrediting lies detailed from R6 and on.

R448 That was shared by a anti-MJ troll, further proving you not only lack enough intelligence to parse the allegations (and the numerous versions of the lies I explained for others at R6 and so on), but you can't read either.

r449, it makes more sense than you spending 24/7 defending a dead child molester.

R451 Pot calling the kettle black!

Unlike Jacko, I'm not ashamed of my blackness.

R450=score keeping pedo apologist retard.

R454=Equals diddled kid who channels his abuse onto Michael Jackson

It took only two trials each to establish guilt for both bill Cosby and OJ Simpson. Jackson had four fucking trials related to this. Not one of them proved a goddamn thing. If you believe Michael Jackson is a pedophile, then you’re stupid and racist.

And when are the “people” who actually sexually abused Michael Jackson going to be prosecuted? I bet every last one of them was white.

r454, what else do Jackson's fans have to do? It's not like they have a life outside of practicing their moonwalk and jacking off to "P.Y.T."

I can't believe Barbara Streisand stepped on it by saying the abuse didn't 'kill them'. So according to her, MJ had these desires for sex with kids but it didn't kill the guys to be sexually abused. Si she believes them but doesn't think it's a big deal. Once again, someone minimizing sexual abuse experienced by boys. Nuts.

[quote]And when are the “people” who actually sexually abused Michael Jackson going to be prosecuted?

How do you know he was "actually" molested?

Somehow I had missed that, R417,

Well worth a watch for anyone who has not seen it.

R417 No, the fans are not struggling. It's telling that most of the comments make reference to allegations outside of Leaving Neverland.

New article from Billboard quoting an unnamed publicist from the BAD tour

[quote] I was on the Bad tour with Jimmy Safechuck and his family. MJ and Jimmy were always together, holding hands, and the press was starting to ask, “Who is the kid, and why are they always together?” The official story was he was the kid from the Pepsi commercial and Pepsi was the tour sponsor, and that’s why he was on tour with us that summer. Behind the scenes, we all thought it was inappropriate and sent someone to talk to MJ about the optics. MJ wouldn’t listen and continued taking Jimmy everywhere, holding hands. When the parents were moved to the band/staff hotel, not the MJ/management hotel, I couldn’t believe that the parents were allowing it. So no, [Leaving Neverland] did not change my mind about MJ. I suspected he was a pedophile at the time, and, obviously, I was correct. I never understood how the parents allowed their son to be with MJ all the time, without them. If MJ loved children so much, how come there were never little girls around... just boys?

Ugh, meant the Brits clip at R416.

R446 —

“it was well known but no evidence of any abuse took place in said bed. ”

Victim testimony is evidence, you moronic pedo-apologist.

He consented to sex with Britney fucking Spears. That alone makes him untrustworthy.

Wade Robson and James Safechuck should be lynched.

[quote]It took only two trials each to establish guilt for both bill Cosby and OJ Simpson. Jackson had four fucking trials related to this. Not one of them proved a goddamn thing. If you believe Michael Jackson is a pedophile, then you’re stupid and racist.

FOUR trials? Yeah, FALSE. Only one.

[quote] And when are the “people” who actually sexually abused Michael Jackson going to be prosecuted? I bet every last one of them was white.

Prosecuted with what? Pretty much every last one of them was white/mixed, because who Jackson surrounded himself with. If you want to talk about the racial angle, let's ask why MJ insisted on mutilating any and all of his black features away.

[quote]Equals diddled kid who channels his abuse onto Michael Jackson

You figured all that out from my post, did ya, R455?

You are truly wise . . .

You're a retard.

MJ was a big Britney fan. He just didn't want his little boy toy to have sex with her.

Because this is the home of someone who is totally not a pedophile..

[quote] Jackson had four fucking trials related to this. Not one of them proved a goddamn thing.

There was only one trial, wasn't there?

It's hilarious how there is zero physical or even compelling evidence that MJ molested these guys. Their own lawsuits tell numerous different versions of the story to the point where even the judge said Robson's sworn statement be believed and Safechuck's claims

Molested a handful of times? Molested hundreds of times. Risky sex in public, pools, showers, saunas, bedrooms, hotel and theaters? He was always cautious and paranoid. He never touched me? He was a serial predator! I didn't know anal with a 7 yo. was abuse at 30? I was afraid Jackson would go to jail if I told. I didn't recall the abuse until 2012? I always knew and lied for him repeatedly. He woo'd my parents? My parents send him dozens of letters and didn't get a response. He sponsored my visa for abuse? My parents begged his company to sponsor the family. Raped me repeatedly at Neverland? I only went a few times with my family. He groomed me for years? He molested me the first night. I was in love with Jackson at 12? I was also seeing his niece Brandi for 7 years I can't even work anymore now? I'm directing several films and giving dancing lessons. When I testified I was under his spell? I was 23 and we hadn't talked in years. It's not about money? I sued for 1.5 billion. It goes on and on...

Look, he memorialized his victims with a painting.

The girls are thrown in there as a dodge.

Why do you MJ haters constantly obsess over the thing you hate? I wish you would spare this much rancor for Tony fucking Danza or Kirk fucking Cameron. Oh wait, I forgot; they’re white.

R472 ^Robson's sworn statement could not be believed and Safechuck's timeline was all over the place.

Keep peddling your pedo lies, R472. You have no sympathy or understanding of child abuse or what it does to the victims.

[quote]Why do you MJ haters constantly obsess over the thing you hate? I wish you would spare this much rancor for Tony fucking Danza or Kirk fucking Cameron. Oh wait, I forgot; they’re white.

Gee . . . memory fails but I don't . . . quite recall either of them fucking little boys.

R476 is getting nervous. Don't worry, the evidence will soon be out and Wade and James will be as credible as Jussie Smollett.

Actually, Jussie is much more credible. At least his lawyers got his story straight.

What evidence?

R477: One of the producers of the latter’s show went down for CP possession.

R474 [quote]Why do you MJ haters constantly obsess over the thing you hate? I wish you would spare this much rancor for Tony fucking Danza or Kirk fucking Cameron. Oh wait, I forgot; they’re white.

The only people obsessing here are the MJ stan/cult members who are flailing wildly, fighting a losing battle. Let's face it, MJ was a pedophile. That doesn't mean he wasn't an amazing entertainer who recorded some great music (which IMHO will outlive and outlast even this), but let's face it, he was a pedophile. That is who he was.

If you think there isn't enough proof of that now, just wait.

Also, R476--Child abuse survivors will deny the abuse, but the sheer number of lies these two have told defies logic and is truly insulting to CSA victims everywhere--repeatedly filing completely contradictory lawsuits, adding new stories of abuse to every interaction with Jackson, going on television and contradicting your numerous sworn statements, blatantly lying in your sworn documents about even the simplest of details. It's mind-boggling. There's only one explanation--they will clearly do, say, invent, and suggest anything to get monetary compensation in a lawsuit. For someone who claims that his allegations aren't about money, but about "the truth", they sure lie a lot in their lawsuits just to try to get to that money. -- Molested a handful of times? Molested hundreds of times. Risky sex in public, pools, showers, saunas, bedrooms, hotel and theaters? He was always cautious and paranoid. He never touched me? He was a serial predator! I didn't know anal with a 7 yo. was abuse at 30? I was afraid Jackson would go to jail if I told. I didn't recall the abuse until 2012? I always knew and lied for him repeatedly. He woo'd my parents? My parents send him dozens of letters and didn't get a response. He sponsored my visa for abuse? My parents begged his company to sponsor the family. Raped me repeatedly at Neverland? I only went a few times with my family. He groomed me for years? He molested me the first night. I was in love with Jackson at 12? I was also seeing his niece Brandi for 7 years I can't even work anymore now? I'm directing several films and giving dancing lessons. When I testified I was under his spell? I was 23 and we hadn't talked in years. It's not about money? I sued for 1.5 billion. It goes on and on...

[R482] Keep cutting and pasting. Doesn't prove a damn thing. Stan logic= I wasn't molested at Neverland so he couldn't have done it!

Why do you post the EXACT same things repeatedly? It clogs up the thread and makes it impossible to discuss anything, especially given that you never credibly reply to anyone.

R483 -I've lied about the abuse; where it happened; how many times it happened; who did it; why I didn't say anything; when and where it happened; its effects on me; its effects on others; who I've told; who I didn't tell; etc.

MJ-hater logic- TOTALLY CREDIBLE. EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A PEDO.

[quote]TOTALLY CREDIBLE. EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A PEDO.

Yet again you twist logic and once again you lie. We accuse you of being a pedo apologist. Actually we KNOW you're a pedo apologist.

R485 Not an MJ hater, just a realist. It's the MJ stans who look like lunatic conspiracy theorists, finding "inconsistencies" where there aren't any, connecting random dots, even when they don't go together, topped with a layer of absurd whataboutism. Enjoy his music all you want, but sooner or later, his followers will have to come to terms with the fact that he was a pedophile. Time will only confirm that.

Don't forget the ad hominem attacks on the victims, R487.

R487

Not an MJ hater, just a realist. >>Sure.

It's the MJ stans who look like lunatic conspiracy theorists, >>Conspiracy theorists ignore evidence. The only evidence they their statements. We examine them (and they contradict themselves compulsively about every major and many minor aspects.)

Finding "inconsistencies" where there aren't any, connecting random dots, even when they don't go together, topped with a layer of absurd whataboutism. >>The inconsistencies are not only there, but very obvious, glaring, and apparent in every aspect court filing they have made.

Enjoy his music all you want, but sooner or later, his followers will have to come to terms with the fact that he was a pedophile. Time will only confirm that. >>We've seen in the past that time only further bolsters his reputation, and the majority of the public does not believe he is a pedophile.

[quote] His personal and career trajectory after the first accusations prove that wrong. His death was the best thing to happen to his career and reputation.

You keep engaging with him so he keeps repeating himself, just block/ignore him.

R491 Do you need your diaper changed?

Too bad MJ's still not alive, he'd volunteer, R492.

R493 Wade would too, if he thought it would earn him even a $1.00

LOL at R494!

Do continue to prove my point, R494.

R488 Victim implies a crime was committed.

R473, that painting would still be fucking creepy even if he wasn't a paedophile

This one is worse, R498.

That could be a photograph, R499.

Roses are red

Violets are blue

MJ was a pedo

And the OP is one too.

Ct-ers always spaz on and on and on about 'timeline inconsistencies'. Just desperation at this point. MJ apologists are up there with people who think 9/11 was an inside job. Sheer tinhat lunacy.

The Daily Mail did a poll and 90% of their readers think Michael Jackson is a dirty pedo.

R503 doesn't realize that the Daily Mail is the British equivalent of TMZ's tabloid garbage.

But MJ-Haters are "logical."

OF course there’s no fucking compelling “physical evidence”. CSA cases rarely do. But even if there was, no amount of evidence would ever be enough for some people. The real issue- as demonstrated by that cunt Streisand- people just don’t care about child sex abuse. Oh, they might make a show about caring and say all the right things, but when it comes down to it, most people just want to turn the other way

I wonder is Barbra has dementia. Her comments are downright odd.

Is there outrage on Twitter over the Michael Jackson t-shirt that is featured in Jordan Peele's US movie?

One thing that's scary is the children who are abused, like MJ, some times become abusers themselves. How many of MJ's victims are now victimizers?

OF course there’s no fucking compelling “physical evidence”. CSA cases rarely do. >>>This is why credibility and honesty are so crucial. When you accuse a famous, dead man of child abuse 10 years after his passing, and then try to publish a secretive book all after being denied a job by his generous enough estate--and then sue him for 1.5 billion when no one will publish it, then you should not have so many lies in your lawsuits regarding how you and your family met him, what he did, why you defended him before, who you told, etc. There is not a single major aspect of Wade's story that cannot be contradicted by another court document he filed (and in many cases discovery he tried to redact and hide before a judge forced him to release it to the estate.) The clear contradictions (lies) present in both of their numerous amended complaints and legal filings are insane, and those versions still differ from their Leaving Neverland testimony in many respects. This is explained at R6 and further posts--with just an incredible fraction of these contradictions highlighted compared to those the Jackson family called out to the court. This is why they owe 70k in court costs and legal fees.

But even if there was, no amount of evidence would ever be enough for some people. >>>This is a misconception, a credible and honest account of abuse from someone like Culkin who did not file numerous lawsuits filed with clearly disprovable lies seeking 1.5 billion would be enough. Instead, we are left with the nonsense excuses, behaviors, and lies that Wade and James' aggressive legal action backfired on and revealed about them. Credibility is the quality of being trusted, and having so many conflicting narratives, while demonstrating a willingness to lie so brazenly under oath in sworn declarations in order to obtain money is untrustworthy and completely contradicts your claims to want to "tell the truth."

The real issue- as demonstrated by that cunt Streisand- people just don’t care about child sex abuse. Oh, they might make a show about caring and say all the right things, but when it comes down to it, most people just want to turn the other way. >>People care about child abuse. They just look skeptically at people whose parental nonsense, draft books, contradictory lawsuits, and documentary narratives all differ in significant ways from each other in order to accuse a dead celebrity of abuse and sue his estate for 1.5 billion. Especially after testifying for his estate in adulthood and making outrageous, conflicting claims in all of your lawsuits including that you did not know that anal penetration and the hundreds of abuse attempts you allege occurred were "illegal" or that you are just "realizing" your abuse after a year of lawyer advised therapy (when you have been in therapy previously) for the purpose of filing a lawsuit. Robson and James invented more and more recent tales of abuse every time a statutory violation was raised in order to protect their attempt to profit. Finally, having such conflicting versions of what type of abuser he was is also lacking in credibility and suggests that you are simply choosing the version that best fits your story--when it in no way matches your other accuser.

Are there any persons who are still under the impression that Michael is innocent yet who believe themselves that Michael was probably sexually abused as a young boy? How else would you explain the freakishly distorted persona that manifested in him as he got into his 30s?

R507 I went to see "Us" over the weekend and the line "kiss my anus" is said by the young son. I was floored.

R509 Excellent analysis. Perhaps the best I've read so far. The problem is the Jackson hater are no longer interested in talking about the documentary or the credibility of James and Wade. Interesting as the title of this thread is Leaving Neverland and should deal specifically with the claims made by James and Wade. Instead, the Jackson haters and even skeptics keep diverting attention away, even though they found James especially credible. I wonder why the constant need to divert from the specific allegations unless they have no rebuttal. The "you don't know the effects of childhood abuse" is not a compelling argument to the numerous facts you have outlined. Remember, any of these contradictions by themselves wouldn't necessarily disprove what they are saying, but the convergence of so many of these facts should at least give someone pause. When James and Wade continue their unsuccessful attempts to extort the estate, what will people say then? That only the court of public opinion matters? That's frightening.

[quote]The only comeback I get from these cretins is that "He shared his Bed, He shared his Bed!" and as I keep replying MJ didn't keep that a secret, it was well known but no evidence of any abuse took place in said bed. Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed?? Would the kids to this day really announce that no abuse happened in them?

Jordan Chandler slept in the same bed with Jackson after he got scared when Jackson made him watch the movie “The Exorcist”. After a period of grooming, this became sexual in a hotel room in Monte Carlo with Chandler’s mother and sister in the next room. Chandler was able to draw pictures of the underside of Jackson’s penis, which as police noted 100% matched the distinctive vitiligo marks from the pictures they took, and he also was able to accurately describe other markings around Jackson’s buttocks.

Haven't you heard, R479? Jordan Chandler's ex girlfriend's friend listens to Michael Jackson! Evidence!!!!

Also, they're convinced that, since James always looks so uneasy, the only explanation must be that it's the strain of lying, and any day now he'll crack and expose "Wade's scheme". It hasn't crossed their minds that maybe, y'know, he's uneasy because he's fucking recounting his experience of childhood sexual abuse.

Joy Robson has been unliking a bunch of MJ centered posts from 2015 that she liked on her Facebook page. Weird.

Joy Robson is a terrible excuse for a mother and a terrible excuse for a human being. Unlike the Safechuck parents or June Chandler (both idiots, too), she left her son with Michael the day after their first actual conversation. I don't really think the parents should be cut much slack for "also being groomed", but Joy Robson doesn't even have that flimsy excuse. She literally dumped her son with a total stranger.

In LN she clearly exhibited more love and sadness for Michael than her own child. Plenty of parents are similarly unmoved by their children enduring abuse, unfortunately. Most often the abusers in such cases are those parents' partners/lovers or family members, but Joy IS a delusional idiot who thinks of Michael as family.

When Jackson fans say they want evidence, what they really want to see is proof that the silly, high talking Michael that they saw moonwalking, and flipping his hat, and dancing in white socks in music videos was not the same Jackson who went home at night and molested children. What they saw in music videos is the only thing they need to know about Jackson, and it’s evidence that he’s a really good person - because they saw it with their own eyes.

I think from a psychological perspective, the mothers have difficultly apologising the way they really need to because they are angry at their sons for lying to them for 30 years and feel that if only their sons had confided their abuse they wouldn’t feel the way they do now.

Sad but true. They only had one job to do and they were fooled by the glitz and glam and by Jackson’s extended grooming.

I blame him more than I do then, but they have to accept blame. Kudos to them for opening themselves up in the interview, it’s valuable to see that even if you think you can trust people with your children, you can’t.

Until a few weeks ago she was refusing to hear the details of the abuse because it was "too much for her". Since she's apparently finally agreed to hear everything, maybe that's some sign that there's hope she might eventually become less selfish and self-centered. Who knows.

So has Mama Robson now heard the details of the sexual abuse?

Apparently she finally has. Shortly before the Oprah interview, I think.

R514 Fucking preach!

I wonder if Joy Robson initially thought Jackson was interested in her. I didn't get that impression from Stephanie Safechuck, but I did from Joy to an extent. She left her husband and moved around the world to be near MJ.

The backlash that’s growing against Streisand should be further proof to MJ fans, that no one who comes out publicly to bat for a pedo is going to come out unscathed.

R513 Jordan Chandler’s description of Michael Jackson’s genitals was not accurate, this is the perfect example of what R512 was talking about.

The Smoking Gun website, which seemed to be close to the prosecution (they reference claims in supposedly sealed prosecution documents – and that always with a pro-prosecution bias), published an article in which they claimed to have reviewed an affidavit by former Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department Deputy Deborah Linden, which “was filed in 1993 to secure court permission to photograph Jackson’s private parts”

“The boy’s information was so precise, he even pinpointed where the splotch fell while Jackson’s penis was erect, the length of the performer’s pubic hair, and that he was circumcised.”

If this is indeed what Jordan said, then his description may have been “precise” (as in detailed), but it certainly was not accurate.

We know by now for a fact that Jackson was not circumcised as per his autopsy, released in early 2010. However, it makes sense that if someone were trying to guess whether a particular American male was circumcised or uncircumcised, the more likely option would be “circumcised”, since the majority of American men are, regardless of religion, especially in older generations, like Jackson who was born in the 1950s. It is also worth noting that Jordan’s father Evan Chandler was Jewish and Jordan himself is most likely circumcised.

Some pro-prosecution journalists tried to excuse Jordan’s failure to accurately describe Jackson’s penis by suggesting that perhaps Jordan did not notice the difference between a fully erect uncircumcised penis and a circumcised one. However, the allegations of Jordan Chandler describe not only one occasion of alleged molestation, but a very intense series of sexual contacts, seeing each other naked many times (including in the bath) and many masturbation sessions in front of each other. Jordan’s uncle, Ray Chandler claims in his book, All That Glitters, that his nephew saw Jackson’s genitalia many times, “from every possible angle”:

Don't you crazy MJ stans have anything better to do than defend this pedo 24/7? I swear some of you sound like you'd give your life for this freak.

Also, R512 —you’ve hit the nail on the head. The MJ haters continue to use that very line as a catch 22 for the dozens of lies called out in this thread, especially beginning at R6.

R526 Do the crazy MJ obsessed haters have anything better to do than defend known liars 24/7? I swear it sounds like some of you would give your life for those freaks.

R528 is a pedo apologist. Fucking nutjob.

R529 “Pedo apologist” sounds like the type of person who tries to create victims from people who repeatedly denied they were abused. Oh wait...that’s your side.

R523 I think she did. I don't think that's necessarily why she moved, since she was the stage mom from hell and hellbent on making Wade a star, but watching her LN interview I definitely got the impression that at some point she thought there was potential for something between her and Michael. There's no doubt she's delusional enough.

Speaking of the moms, MJ, and off the charts delusion... While laughing at the insane stans over at the MJJ community forum after LN premiered, I came across a thread of photos of MJ on vacation with a woman, the premise of the thread being that since MJ was vacationing with an attractive woman they must have been having a passionate love affair, and finally here's one of those dozens if not hundreds of strangely elusive women he'd bedded. Hilarious comments abounded. Stuff like "Go Mikey!", "Michael loved him some pretty ladies", "They're so obvious! And he usually kept his love life so private!", "Can't look at the photos, I get so jealous looking at him with women!" Of course, the woman was actually Stephanie Safechuck, and poor Jimmy was right there in the photos with them, much closer to MJ than his mom, but the stans' denial and delusion are just limitless.

Siri, what's the stock photo for paedophilia?

If, if, if, R525... a website that MJ supporters think seemed close to the prosecution... Any Wikipedia links you'd like to share with us too while you're at it?

Any, y'know, evidence ? No? Feel free to offer any.

They are R531. I actually find Michael Jackson fans terrifying. It seems beyond obsession with them, like their lives are depending on sustenance from Jackson beyond the grave. It’s almost like they’d willingly sell their souls to defend this mediocre entertainer.

I’ve been obsessed with artists before, and even followed their every move. But if one of them fell out of grace with the public I would not devote my whole life to defending their existence online. Why would I? I don’t even know them!

More.

Poor Jordie saw everything.

Wade Robson has told more lies and left more evidence than Jussie Smollett.

Give it up, Jackotard on this thread. Do you have any friends? Wouldn't surprise me if you don't. Nobody wants to befriend someone who is unhealthily obsessed with a dead sideshow freak.

R532, I'd like to nominate MJ crouching behind little Jonathan Spence and grabbing his thigh.

Or for video, how about Jordie Chandler bouncing in Michael's lap at the World Music Awards in Monaco.

There's just so much to choose from...

Funny how Safechuck’s stories mimic the theories of a man named Victor Gutierrez, a Chilean reporter who wrote the book “Michael Jackson Was My Lover,” which he claimed to have adapted from 1993 Jackson accuser Jordan Chandler’s diary. According to Gutierrez’s entry on themichaeljacksonallegations.com, many found the pro-pedophilia nature of the book disturbing, pointing out that Gutierrez thanks NAMBLA, the North American Man-Boy Love Association, in the book’s foreword. But the Chandlers say that Jordan never kept a diary. Jackson sued Gutierrez for defamation, and won. He never paid and fled the country, but we know at least one person who has a copy.

Reposting from R509. +1 to R512 too. The Wade Robson and James Safechuck Truthers and Anti-MJ trolls (since anyone we disagree with is a troll) aren’t interested in the truth.

“OF course there’s no fucking compelling “physical evidence”. CSA cases rarely do. >>>This is why credibility and honesty are so crucial. When you accuse a famous, dead man of child abuse 10 years after his passing, and then try to publish a secretive book all after being denied a job by his generous enough estate--and then sue him for 1.5 billion when no one will publish it, then you should not have so many lies in your lawsuits regarding how you and your family met him, what he did, why you defended him before, who you told, etc. There is not a single major aspect of Wade's story that cannot be contradicted by another court document he filed (and in many cases discovery he tried to redact and hide before a judge forced him to release it to the estate.) The clear contradictions (lies) present in both of their numerous amended complaints and legal filings are insane, and those versions still differ from their Leaving Neverland testimony in many respects. This is explained at [R6] and further posts--with just an incredible fraction of these contradictions highlighted compared to those the Jackson family called out to the court. This is why they owe 70k in court costs and legal fees.

But even if there was, no amount of evidence would ever be enough for some people. >>>This is a misconception, a credible and honest account of abuse from someone like Culkin who did not file numerous lawsuits filed with clearly disprovable lies seeking 1.5 billion would be enough. Instead, we are left with the nonsense excuses, behaviors, and lies that Wade and James' aggressive legal action backfired on and revealed about them. Credibility is the quality of being trusted, and having so many conflicting narratives, while demonstrating a willingness to lie so brazenly under oath in sworn declarations in order to obtain money is untrustworthy and completely contradicts your claims to want to "tell the truth."

The real issue- as demonstrated by that cunt Streisand- people just don’t care about child sex abuse. Oh, they might make a show about caring and say all the right things, but when it comes down to it, most people just want to turn the other way. >>People care about child abuse. They just look skeptically at people whose parental nonsense, draft books, contradictory lawsuits, and documentary narratives all differ in significant ways from each other in order to accuse a dead celebrity of abuse and sue his estate for 1.5 billion. Especially after testifying for his estate in adulthood and making outrageous, conflicting claims in all of your lawsuits including that you did not know that anal penetration and the hundreds of abuse attempts you allege occurred were "illegal" or that you are just "realizing" your abuse after a year of lawyer advised therapy (when you have been in therapy previously) for the purpose of filing a lawsuit. Robson and James invented more and more recent tales of abuse every time a statutory violation was raised in order to protect their attempt to profit. Finally, having such conflicting versions of what type of abuser he was is also lacking in credibility and suggests that you are simply choosing the version that best fits your story--when it in no way matches your other accuser.”

Oh R539... Gutierrez is a creep, but bringing NAMBLA into a Jackson discussion is really not a shrewd move for the pedos' stans.

[quote] There was obviously some purpose to the article. Perhaps to gage fan reactions to the pairing.

What ^^ said.

^^^ oops. wrong thread.

R530, you should consult a dictionary before you continue posting.

And all the over the top outrage at people thinking Barnes and Culkin were likely abused is really something. Yes, what a foul mind one must have to think an accused child molester, who undeniably devoted his life to getting cute little kids with idiot parents into bed with him, might have been up to no good while spending over 450 nights in bed with this poor kid.

R544 Wade and James lied about being abused by Michael Jackson, and Leaving Neverland painted Michael Jackson as a serial pedophile because that’s the only way to suppprt the current version (4) of the lie (see R6 and on).

Yet, unlike every other serial pedophile (or even just abuser,) there are not any credible accusers. Savile, Weinstein, even R. Kelly—none are hurting for credible accusers. This really pisses of the MJ haters because the pedo narrative his in spite of a lack of any actual victims.

Chandler and Arvizo (Wade and James’ don’t deserve mention beyond R6 and on) were the shadiest two families ever to accuse anyone of a crime, one son couldn’t even describe Jackson’s lack of circumcison correctly after allegedly showering, bathing, masturbating, fellating, etc. him. The other son, who went from a cancer patient with weeks to live to actually being healthier than all of us had a mother who not only (hilariously) claimed she was abused also, but scammed tens of thousands to raise “funds” for insurance paid treatments. More about him is available in the thread below.

Calling someone a “Stan” means you are enabling Eminem and this enabling homophobia.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses deserve blame for depriving him of the normal rituals of childhood like holiday celebrations and birthday parties. That would fuck any child up mentally.

[quote] Haven't you heard, [R479]? Jordan Chandler's ex girlfriend's friend listens to Michael Jackson! Evidence!!!!

Says someone who admits that there will never be any concrete evidence that Jackson did anything to these kids. This is pretty compelling stuff. You would think that the subject of MJ would have come up more than once while she was dating Jordan.

it cannot be understated that Robson owes $70,000+ in attorneys fees, and Safechuck several thousands as well to MJ and companies as a result of their lawsuits.

American courts, unlike many other countries where it’s the de facto practice, rarely award attorney’s fees in lawsuits, especially in controversial (such as sexual abuse) cases. This is otherwise known as the “American rule” and is why our flawed legal system makes it hard to “fight back” when you’ve been sued by a large company, even frivolously. Look at Gawker and Peter Thiel as an example of why this can be crippling.

However, the defendants convinced the judge that the numerous conflicting narratives, repeated lies, and deception by the plaintiffs suggested that the other party was acting in bad faith.

This was not dismissed as a “statutory violation,” they cured that by adding more recent tales of abuse and changing substantial portions of the suit (lying) in amended complaints to fall within the time guidelines. This was merely a bad faith attempt to dupe the legal system that failed on substantive grounds, and they were ordered to pay for wasting the Estate and court’s time and resources.

Again for me it gets down to why did Jackson need to sleep with these boys. Grown men do not pick up boys who are total strangers and want to share a bed with them repeatedly. That is not normal and I am happy that my local radio station is not playing MJ music

Yay R550!!!! Desperate Jackaloons are now saying that Dan Reed's film presents the same view point as Streisand's sick POV. D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E pedolovers.

Barbara Streisand is a fucking loon

Streisand's comment offers an insight into the mind of some of those who excel in an area (film/tv, music, sports, politics) that they are so far above others in every sense, that the privilege to spend time with them is worth any price they may ask.

Again — R446:

The only comeback I get from these cretins is that "He shared his Bed, He shared his Bed!" and as I keep replying MJ didn't keep that a secret, it was well known but no evidence of any abuse took place in said bed. Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed?? Would the kids to this day really announce that no abuse happened in them? The answer is no.

Wade and James are Jussie Smollett on steroids.

The number of pedo apologists on this thread doesn't surprise me.

[quote]Jordan Chandler slept in the same bed with Jackson after he got scared when Jackson made him watch the movie “The Exorcist”.

What the hell? That movie isn't appropriate for any kid at any age. What a devious piece of shit Jackson was to intentionally terrify and manipulate a child in that way. SICK FUCK.

“Pedo apologist” is the new term for anyone who reads the dozens of contradictory claims, lies, and repeated invention of abuse stories in their lawsuits and Leaving Neverland (see from R6) and comes to the same conclusion as a judge that they’re lying before ordering them to pay $70,000.

“Troll” is anywho who I disagree with apparently.

“MJ Truther” means anyone who ignores the substantial, provable lies contained in the allegations and says “but he slept in the bed” with kids who say nothing illegal happened, including Wade and James, before one was turned down for a job and wrote several conflicting book drafts no one would publish before suing for 1.5 billion.

Give it up, MJ-loon. You're not convincing anyone on here of this freak's 'innocence'. Get a life.

R556 believing fake news. I’m guessing you also believe he stayed with Jackson a week in the hotel room alone (before this lie was also disproven.)

R558 I’m not trying to convince you. Destroying these allegations consistently and repeatedly is something I (and others) are happy to do, “freak.”

You're not 'destroying' anything, R560, except maybe your own mental health.

r499, that's creepy as fuck. And, why is Jackson white? Did the artist use vitiligo paint?

R561 Okay, Jack. Try to not get so pressed then as James and Wade’s hoaxes are exposed.

[quote]“Pedo apologist” is the new term for anyone who reads the dozens of contradictory claims, lies, and repeated invention of abuse stories in their lawsuits and Leaving Neverland (see from [R6]) and comes to the same conclusion as a judge that they’re lying before ordering them to pay $70,000.

Wrong, pedo apologist R557.

A pedo apologist is someone who ignores and excuses the inherent wrongness in an adult male only spending time with children under the age of ten.

A pedo apologist is one who ignores and excuses an adult male throwing stardust in the eyes of parents with children under the age of ten with the intent of grooming those children to become his sexual playthings.

A pedo apologist is one who ignores and excuses the inherent wrongness in an adult male separating that child from his parents with the intent of raping that child.

And that's YOU, R557, the lead pedo apologist on this website.

r555, it's just one Jackaloon and its sockpuppet(s) cutting and pasting the same shit over and over again. I bet they haven't left their computer or bathed since the documentary first aired.

Let’s breal this down R564 as Jackson’s hundreds of millions of other fans have in dismissing these lying accusers.

A pedo apologist is one who ignores and excuses an adult male throwing stardust in the eyes of parents with children under the age of ten with the intent of grooming those children to become his sexual playthings.

>>>You’re right, he found these kids and groomed the parents! Oh wait..these parents wrote him dozens of letters? They got upset he wouldn’t respond? They stalked him for years, begging for him to sponsor their children? This is quickly falling apart! A pedo apologist is one who ignores and excuses the inherent wrongness in an adult male separating that child from his parents with the intent of raping that child.

>>>You’re right, look at all the victims who have come out to corroborate that claim like every other serial abuser like Michael Jackson. What, the other kids all say nothing happened? The FBI and police interviewer a large number of them? One even threatened to sue Dan Reed and HBO for making him look complicit in the lie? Several even defend him to this day? These two did as adults also? Their stories differ in every way possible from each other? Oh no!

R566 = pedo apologist

How much of a sociopath/narcissist do you have to ask if you can have your wedding at Neverland (when you're a grown man) and MJ is in the middle of a sexual abuse trial?

R567 Perfect example. Thanks for proving my point ;)

R566 has done his homework. Even the claim that Jackson groomed the parents has been proven to be a lie.

Jackson is sick. There is no need to watch LN to see his behavior with these young boys was not normal by any means

R569, R567 and probably at least 80% of this thread and the other Leaving Neverland threads = still a pedo apologist

*R566

R567 Block the fucking pedo apologist. It's just a troll. Trolls feed off attention. Don't give it to them.

R573 “If I say pedo apologists enough times, it’ll make everything he said go away, right Muriel, right?!?!”

[quote] There is no need to watch LN to see his behavior with these young boys was not normal by any means

So your only evidence are allegations that have been brought to trial and resulted in an acquittal. Nothing left to say about James and Wade's conflicting testimonies? I thought so.

“Pedo apologist!” —Hogwart’s spell

(Like magic all of Wade and James’ numerous lies detailed in a small part at R6 and on) suddenly disappear and no longer matter.)

Pedo apologists truly believe that there's nothing wrong with a 35 year old adult male sleeping in the same bed with a stranger's child.

“Pedo apologists truly believe that there's nothing wrong with a 35 year old adult male sleeping in the same bed with a stranger's child.”

MJ haters truly believe that the gigantic number of kids who have slept with Michael Jackson and said nothing happened are all lying and victims in a massive conspiracy to protect him—all except Wade and James, who now want to “tell the truth” by filing a 1.5. billion dollar lawsuit 10 years after his death, despite using his name, reputation, and fame to defend and profit from him consistently until the Estate denied one of them a job. At which point, the other entered therapy and spontaneously remembered (according to his lawsuit) in 2012 that he was abused 100s of times also. Adding insult to injury, their claims were so unbelieved that they actually owe his estate tens of thousands now.

R554 —

“Would a CSA really announce that they have kids share their bed?? ”

You don’t seem to know what CSA refers to — it’s ‘child sexual abuse’ (ie, what Wade and James suffered at the hands of serial pedophile predator Michael Jackson), not child sexual abuseR. Of course, you think it’s okay to show pornography to children, so we know where your sympathies lie.

Also, AGAIN, victim testimony IS evidence. You can’t just hand-wave away basic legal principles because you think it strengthens your rhetoric.

New statement from @BarbraStreisand after her comments about the men who accused Michael Jackson of sexual abuse in “Leaving Neverland

"The most important role of being a parent is to protect their children," Streisand said in the statement to BuzzFeed News. "It's clear that the parents of the two young men were also victimized and seduced by fame and fantasy."

In her new statement, Streisand stressed that she had "nothing but sympathy" for the two victims in the film.

"To be crystal clear, there is no situation or circumstance where it is OK for the innocence of children to be taken advantage of by anyone," she said. "The stories these two young men shared were painful to hear, and I feel nothing but sympathy for them."

Why were both the Barbra Streisand and Diana Ross threads closed?

You don’t seem to know what CSA refers to — it’s ‘child sexual abuse’ (ie, what Wade and James suffered at the hands of serial pedophile predator Michael Jackson), not child sexual abuseR. Of course, you think it’s okay to show pornography to children, so we know where your sympathies lie.

>>You try to use an abbreviation to sneak in a false claim. Michael Jackson was not accused of showing porn to children, rather, one of the children (who has said nothing illegal happened with him) stated that when it came on the television, he and another boy got excited and attempted to show Jackson, who looked away and seemed embarrassed. Sound like a CSA? Yet, if Wade and James can tell dozens of lies you might as well too.

Also, AGAIN, victim testimony IS evidence. You can’t just hand-wave away basic legal principles because you think it strengthens your rhetoric.

>>You’re right. So let’s look at the “evidence” beginning at R6, which outlines the repeatedly different versions of what happened, how it happened, who was told, when it was remembered and so forth—and how it changes every time in an attempt to gain money through the legal system. Are sworn affidavits not “testimony” also?

R582 because Wade and James will never be able to touch either of those icons on DL with their lies, probably.

R582 I noticed that , what the fuck is going on?? there was an old thread of MJ and Jimmy Safechuck that was closed too!!

R582 and R585 Probably the work of the pedo apologists. They are all over the LN threads. They probably FF'd the threads into oblivion.

[quote] Also, AGAIN, victim testimony IS evidence.

So Bret Barnes and Macaulay Culkin don't count then?

[quote]Look, he memorialized his victims with a painting. The girls are thrown in there as a dodge.

Yeah, notice he's laser-focused on the little boy with praying hands.

The little boy in the logo above is looking down thinking "Run for your lives, little children! Run!"

R587 Also just because something is presented as evidence doesn't mean it's true. That's why we have a legal system. The fact that remains that James and Wade's testimonies don't hold up. Meanwhile, if Barnes or Culkin were told to lie, they would not have admitted to sleeping with Jackson.

R586 Delusional is thinking that any negative thread about Barbara Streisand was downvoted by “pedo apologists” and not the thousands of gays here who idolize her.

Then again, these are the same people said Madonna was a better musician than Michael Jackson (whose only good song was “Thriller” no less) so I can’t be surprised that more nonsense is coming out.

[quote]So Bret Barnes and Macaulay Culkin don't count then?

So Bret Barnes and Macaulay Culkin are victims then?

R591 No, they are just two of many who testified or spoke out in defense of MJ. You're trying to paint them as victims.

R591 Victims of defamation, by anti-MJ trolls who want to force them into making up tales of abuse because Leaving Neverland misled them into thinking that it’s a global Michael Jackson conspiracy.

r592, I haven't painted them as anything - you've got the wrong poster.

Can someone please link to Part 11? The search function is not working.

Of course not all evidence is true, dumbfucks. Nevertheless, it is considered evidence — whereas you seem to believe that, what? Only DNA is ever taken into account?

Also, two ten year old boys got pornography WHERE exactly? They foisted it upon innocent MJ, of course! He, as the adult, wasn’t at all responsible, right?

R595 You’re welcome.

A message to proven liars Wade and James.

Wade Robson’s anthem

[quote] Of course not all evidence is true, dumbfucks. Nevertheless, it is considered evidence — whereas you seem to believe that, what? Only DNA is ever taken into account?

We never made such a claim. Why go through the work of dissecting all those court documents if it weren't considered evidence?

R600 Wade and James’ numerous contradictory sworn statements aren’t evidence worthy of discussion, but decades old claims from fired employees who even the prosecution wouldn’t put on the stand are “credible” evidence of guilt.

Smh

Wade Robson is Jussie Smollett

This ‘documentary’ is a disgrace to the art of visual information media. Perhaps it wouldn’t be so insulting to the viewer (and of course to the subject, Michael Jackson) if it were made clear that every second of it is based solely on the word of two men and not whatsoever — as one would be forgiven for expecting from something described as a documentary — in fact. Furthermore, I find it reprehensible that these men apparently resorted to such excruciatingly detailed descriptions of such heinous acts, in other words to rely on sheer shock value, to distract the audience away from the stories’ lack of continuity, credibility, and factual corroboration.

Michael Jackson was first accused of child molestation in 1993-1994 by a man who held a grudge against him and wanted money. He is literally recorded as saying he didn’t know or care if his son had actually been molested, and that all he cared about was ruining Michael’s career. His name is Evan Chandler and the telephone recordings are available on YouTube. Evan also manipulated his son Jordan into agreeing with the story he’d concocted. Dozens of families were interviewed by police (none of whom said anything incriminating), Michael’s house was raided for evidence (nothing was found), Michael himself was subjected to being photographed naked to see if Jordan would correctly describe how he looked without clothes (Jordan’s description didn’t match Michael’s body), and there were two grand jury hearings (neither of which granted the Chandlers any support for their case). The case was eventually settled out of court but the Chandlers were completely able to file a criminal case. They did not.

In 2005, there was an allegation that did lead to a criminal trial. Michael was tried on twelve counts of inappropriate behaviour with a minor, and two additional misdemeanours. The handling of this trial was absurd. The prosecution falsified and tampered with evidence, changed their story several times, couldn’t answer relevant questions, and generally didn’t provide enough of a case to indicate anything other than Michael’s innocence. He was found unanimously by the jury to be not guilty on all counts.

Additionally, for ten years, the FBI carried out a secret investigation on Michael (I’m not actually sure of the dates) and during that time found nothing to indicate his guilt. Nothing. In ten years. The Federal Bureau of Investigation. Professional finder-outers. This film references evidence (jewellery, for example) that the FBI either found irrelevant or didn’t find. Which you implying: that the FBI is careless or inept?

The information is all freely available, for those who care to look beyond tabloid clickbait. We have access to so much knowledge, and yet so many choose to remain ignorant. It’s disheartening.

And let’s not even get into how shameful it is that these men once defended Michael. Robson in particular voluntarily testified under oath as a GROWN MAN in defence of Michael, and both he and Safechuck signed declarations to the same effect. Michael left this world believing he had two more genuine friends than he really did (well, more acquaintances, really), and that is sad. I genuinely wonder how these two sick people can live with themselves. Why not go to court, win the case, and prove themselves as credible? If they have 4 hours of material, they’re bound to win, right? Except wrong. Because it’s all FALSE.

This is deplorable. This should be illegal. This is the worst joke I’ve heard in years. I cannot condemn this filth enough (because of the character limit). DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY SUPPORTING LIES. SEEK TRUTH AND INTEGRITY. SUPPORT GENUINE VICTIMS INSTEAD.