British Royal Family Part 2: general gossip and information.

Queen Mary was the great-granddaughter of George III.

Reminder! Great thread!

I agree with the previous poster who says that they can't get behind Queen Letizia of Spain. She's plastic.

[Quote]Fun fact about Royal relationships: George V, who terrorised his sons and to some extent his formidable wife, apparently absolutely adored the young Princess Elizabeth, and she could do no wrong in his eyes.

George V's father, Edward VII, was also a very affectionate and indulgent grandfather: David and Bertie (the future Edward VIII and George VI) adored their grandfather, though Edward VII was a rather distant parent.

There seems to be a pattern going back to the Hanoverian days, that the British Royals are good grandparents but cold parents, particularly with their heirs. This holds true all the way up to Elizabeth and Charles. There are rumors that Charles doesn't get along that well with his sons, but perhaps William can break the pattern with George.

William is sadly a total asshole when it comes to George, but that may come with the territory re: not being on good terms with the person who is going to knock you off the pedestal some day.

George being an adorable flaming gayling may also have something to do with that.

R - There is an article in the Daily Mail which states that George has inherited his grandmother Diana's love of dancing.

Meanwhile, the Dutch King and Queen are in England. Maxima has to bend down to kiss the Queen.

The Queen with Willem Alexander and Maxima.

R5 where have you heard that? Not trying to be snide... I’m curious simply because I haven’t really read anything about how William and Kate are with their kids.

How often does the queen get her hair done?

R12 - she sleeps in rollers every night.

The model wears it better.

Queen Mary's father was only an SH, and had no money.

Looking forward to the State banquet tonight hosting the visiting Dutchies.

Maxima looks great in that orange dress at R9.

Perfect for the House of Orange.

The Queen is shrinking and Charles is expanding.

The Queen's ankles and feet are still swollen.

King Willem's coat is buttoned, too.

Charles' coat is not.

The Brits are pulling out all of the stops for the Dutch royal couple. Pomp and circumstance at its best!

Showing off the Royal Collection.

Yummy desserts for the State Banquet. Click for slide show. Yummy!

Wow!

The Dutch King and Queen tower over not just The Queen, but Charles as well.

Charles steps forward so that the perspective changes and he doesn't look so much shorter than King Willem-Alexander in the photo.

The Dutch King has to crouch down to greet Queen Elizabeth.

The Dutch tend to be very tall. I am getting more and more worried about HM. She has always been a bit of a wee thing, but this shrinkage, along with her bit off ebbing of late has me worried.

Camilla's outfit in R25 is fantastic. She seldom wears black but this makes her look very chic.

And sorry, that blue thing MM is wearing is weird as can be.

Dutch kisses for Charles and Camilla.

The Dutch queen is already wearing lots of jewels. Can't wait to see what she's wearing at the State Banquet.

The Dutch royal couple had tea at Clarence House with Prince Charles and Camilla.

You think after all this time, Camilla would know what to do. She always appears confused and doesn't know the drill.

Willen-Alexander seems to have lost a tad bit of weight in preparation for the state visit. He looks great. He porked up there for a good while. I assume he knew that the international press would be covering this event and wanted to look his best. Maxima pretty much always looks great. She wears big hats and lots of jewelry really well.

Queen Mary strikes again....

Maxima's maiden name is Zorreguieta. So she's a of Basque ancestry?

Gentle reminder, there is a thread for non BRF royalty discussion.

Yes, because a question about Maxima would flow so naturally from the discussion there. Not.

Why not move the Dutch state visit discussion over there?

I don't know, why not? R36

Talking about the visit with the BRF is one thing. Discussing Maiden names and ancestry of non BRFs is another.

So sick of seeing that hispanic tranny in ads asking me if i need free HIV test. Sorry. Had to get that out.

Btw, i love Phil's reaction to the Queen's painting. Just focus on him. He must be a real hoot in private. Typical Gemini reaction and I'm not even up on star signs. Love him here. So aristocratic, this guy.

Queen's maternal grandma looks like she hails from Great Neck, LI. Ya know i mean?

Hey R9, did the Queen have work done? She looks fantastic!

She never had slim elegant ankles. Phil now on the other hand is pure aristo stock. R19

My god R30 those kunzite earrings are off the charts! The setting is so unique. Dying here. Imagine those pink earrings on a beauty with green or blue eyes. They're wasted on this woman.

R41 it’s funny you say that. I thought she looked different... maybe she had some eye work done. Or maybe it’s just a good pic.

R37 - Haven't you taken a look at that thread lately?

The Queen seems ecstatic about something. It's in her eyes. Whenever she has this look it always goes back to good news about a dog or a horse. We find this later on.

Whoever posted that endless video of HM's pack of corgis being transported to and fro, thank you.

It gives me great joy to see the help falling all over themselves nannying those adorable creatures. My own dog was trying to get attention while i oohed and aawed over the senior pups especially. Please not now Balto, i'm counting corgies! Fucking 7. Perfect for a sled team! I thought, wow, she's such an animal lover. A real country woman.

Quite possibly an animal hoarder😍🤔

R34 - She's Argentinian - there was a fair amount of negativity initially at the engagement because her father had been close to the regime in which so many disappeared. She made a short televised speech at the engagement but he was verboten at the wedding and she and Willem walked down the aisle together. There were some demonstrations during the carriage ride back, and an egg actually landed on the window of the carriage, instantly wiped off by the gloved guard walking beside it. But the criticism died down fairly quickly as the Dutch warmed to her outgoing personality, energy, and mastery of Dutch.

R46, You're welcome. All the Queen's Corgis have been descendants of her top bitch, Susan, who was gifted to her in 1947 by her father, George VI.

Eva Peron was Basque.

r48, I assumed it would have been Margaret Rose...

R30 - they are, indeed, off the charts, and somewhat, if I may say so, way too dressy for daywear.

Factoids on kunzite: the stone was named after gemologist George Kunz, who discovered it, and it is called the "evening stone" because the colour can fade if it is exposed to too much sunlight.

Looking at the other thread, all of these women including Argentinian Dutch girl, the fabulous jewels are wasted on them. Not a good looking lot. I really feel for HM & Philip producing the dud who is Prince Charles. I pity Charles.

Charles and Camilla look so doddering in that clip. I thought the Queen was rude. Someone spent time on that painting, she should just be nice about it.

I know the Grimaldi family is a joke and fraud but Grace Kelly ruined it for everyone of these bitches

Sirry

Hate most of Grace's tiaras. She's quite the vision with that wall of diamonds and other loaners

Grace's tiaras. Some were necklaces worn clipped into the hair. Now that's multitasking!

I want the chicken brooch!

I want to turn all of mother's necklaces as a common headband.

What is this about the Queen's corgis? They are all dead and she said she would never have another one. She has some dorgis. I am confused.

Even though they were chummy and Grace was much older it must have been hard for Diana making a mental comparison. Wonder what she told herself?

Grace's stash piece

Tiara Mania on Grace's collection~♢

Nothing worse than running HSH Princess GGrace and the eyes landing on that mouse face Nicole Kidman.

No wonder Grimaldi set the standard. She's like a dream!

Could you imagine Grace in those Kunzite earrings above by plain old Dutch girl?

Also, plain Dutch there is wearing too much pink. You either need a pink adjacent shade such as mint green, pale yellow gold or pastel violet to highlight those gorgeous earrings. I'm now following the jeweler in the instagram link above. Exquisite and innovative designs. The setting work and polishing compound used are of the highest order.

Why is this thread discussing Princess Grace of Monaco?

You may have been the people's princess but you'll never be the prettiest princess. Ouch!

Good question r65, guys there is a non BRF royal forum thread to play in!

And it is here:

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R65, you ask why? Because one's eyes need a rest from all of these "handsome" women. See image below of funny looking nonAmerican Diana.

We're making a pit stop into gemstone territory.

Also, just flabbergasted and the prong work on those kunzite earrings. Givin' me the vapors

Queen Mary attends a Christie's open air auction, keeping track of who bought what for future reference. Queen Mary: "These bitches wish they had my game. I get all my shit for FREE!"

TY R69 but it is heartbreaking seeing all of these jewels wasted on such plain and downright funny looking women. Wei shade!

Can you imagine the security required to transport the Stuart tiara from the Netherlands to London? Would make a great heist caper movie.

Guys sorry about replica link images & animal hoarding comments.

Just making a point regarding not envying royalty and nobility. Who could ever envy Charles? Perhaps his station in life but not the inbred looking disaster he turned out to be, right? Gotta be hard inheriting everything but not basic good looks. The only one who seems to have it all is Philip. Prior thread discussed his unfortunate childhood. Absentee father and crazy mother usually produces a psychopath. I guess you really can't have it all.

Those young photos in part 1 of this thread of Charles are a dick and clit killer. Can't blame handsome aristocratic to the bone Phil being disappointed. We're all disappointed as well. Charles was/is a big letdown. I pity Liz and Phil in their private thoughts about Chuck. This why Andy has always acted out. Every parent has favorites, don't kid yourself. And it ain't ever Charles! His last and only adoration died an alcoholic at 101 years ago.

R71 this woman is a jew!😅

Would have lived the kunzite though

R74 - Grace didn't age well, though. She became curiously ordinary looking in ordinary middle age - some beautiful blondes are like that, their looks depends on freshness and youth. Once Grace began looking matronly the magic vanished from her face.

Whilst hardly the equal of Kelly, Diana was quite lovely enough and as the press found out quickly, it was hard to take a bad photo of her. But, oddly enough, like Kelly, you could see Diana becoming "handsome" in her late thirties in the way those English roses do. The powder fresh look of youth is what makes that particular look so lovely. Once middle age begins to encroach, because it's not a matter of bone structure or beautiful noses and mouths, those English roses fade quickly.

Charles looks like a character in Alice in Wonderland in those photos.

I'm going to say something mean spirited about Diana with the image at R74.

After it was revealed Brit tv played an explosive Diana interview on Liz and Philip's anniversary, I was done with this fug frog eyed bitch. Having to see that face everywhere just going food shopping was all too much for me. Every print publication with her gracing the cover I couldn't help zeroing in on that awful crooked nose of hers. Her brother fared better in the inherited trait category.

I used to think her real problem deep down was her insecurity about being so funny looking.

The nose, lack of cheekbones, baggy buggy too round eyes. The honking schnozz really brought attention to the small romanesque mealy mouth. A small tiny mouth can be adorable and endearing even becoming on some. Just can't have a big beak looming over it. Then there were the people going on about how beautiful she was. We know that isn't true. She KNEW it was a lie. Her decisions after the divorce support this.

HM and Princess Margaret sported prettier symmetrical visages.

When Di passed I was honestly so relieved. It would have painful her as she aged. Painful for us having to be bombarded with the now aging funny looking princess. I was relieved for myself but strangely relieved for her. Such a tormented soul she was. Dody? Come on. Imagine the child of Di and Al Fayed..a monster in the making.

She's finally in peace and so are a lot of people due to her demise. Sadly she had the emotional IQ of a twelve year old. The BRF is a business. The Queen has upheld her promise to the world in her coronation speech as a youngster. True, Diana came from an older English noble family and that went to her head. She never stopped to consider Liz's feelings. It's like she purposely went out if her way to defy, spite and aim chagrin at HM.

I am so relieved for Diana, the world and especially and most importantly Mrs. Battenburg.

R78 - I say, that WAS rather over the top mean! Diana wasn't a classic beauty but in her twenties she did have a classic English Rose look - buggy eyed? Come on, she had large beautiful blue eyes, gorgeous skin, and spectacular legs. She photographed spectacularly well.

I rather agree with you that amongst Diana, Kate, (certainly Sparkle and Sarah Ferguson and Pss. Anne don't even get into the group), Margaret, and the Queen, Pss. Margaret is clearly the only real beauty. Those photos of her by Beaton at 18 or so are simply stunning.

But Diana was certainly pretty well within a certain type.

Her insecurity was due to how wretchedly her fucking parents acted - complete self-absorption as they fought out their marital battle and left their younger children to fend for themselves emotionally. No amount of money and privilege excuses such parenting.

Mind, I don't say that Diana wasn't awful in her way, but to lay her issues down to being "funny looking"? Please - everyone around her was predicting she'd be a beauty by the time she was 16. Everyone knew she'd gotten the looks of the three girls. Sarah wasn't bad, but Jane was born frumpy - it was Diana who got the real looks.

And she knew it.

Margot: "Nanny, oh Nanny? You WHOOOOooooooo.......Where the devil IS that woman?!!****EXASPERATION**** **gasp, gasp** SOMEBODY BETTER COME GET THIS SHIT! Ah, there you are Nanny. Off you go, darling. Mummy will see you at Christmas."

Queen Mum: "But Margot, it's only JUNE NOW!"

Margot: "I KNOOOOOOOOOW!!" **laughs uproariously**

Seriously.... take a look at Diana, especially when she was in her late teens. She was really beautiful—not In a Grace Kelly or Liz Taylor way, but in a very traditional girl next door way.

I think R78 rode the Eighties on one hell of an acid trip.

I j'adore our resident floor monitor gently chiding us when anyone goes off topic to the slightest degree!!!!

R76 agree with mostly everything until you laid down this whopper..

"late thirties in the way those English roses do. The powder fresh look of youth is what makes that particular look so lovely. Once middle age begins to encroach, because it's not a matter of bone structure or beautiful noses and mouths, those English roses fade quickly."

Bone structure is all there is. It cannot be bought 'cept maybe in Korea.

Some people age well. Known plenty of geriatric stunners who didn't age particularly well but their base bone structure cannot be denied.

By the time of her death Princess Grace was a raging alcoholic. She used to be caught drunk driving almost every week tooling around in a Fiat convertible. She can't hide the alchie bloat that especially effects the Irish. Their mere exterior reveals and exposes them. See: Alec Baldwin.

My mom used to say if you can't look good in youth...

There are exceptions. Some facial features beautify exponentially with age. Today you can get a nose bob with your mini lift and look better than ever at 60+ years because it boils down to features. Nobody goes under the knife saying make me look like Diana or any English Rose. Nobody goes to a cosmetic dentist and demands to be given English teeth. The pure beauty of the English Rose is a myth. I've been exposed to some Irish stunners. Even drunken old crappy pale skin Irish people still beautiful in their 80s because they don't suffer the curse of the Anglo/Saxon/Mediterranean beak situation. Some of these people even had merely more than a slit for a mouth but with their button noses and neon blue eyes you've got the winning combination. They mix extraordinaire with other ethnicities (exception Asian & NA). As in Princess Grace's case, the Saxon/Celtic combo often found in North America is a favorable result concerning bone structure and coloring.

Worldwide the global view of female beauty standards is notoriously not to be in England or Italy. The males in England and Italy are indicative of the male standard of beauty. Swedish men aren't revered but their women are standard setting.

When an English woman is a downright beauty there's always something else at play in there. It is true the world over. Same holds true in Toronto. All of the national beauties always hail from quebec. They don't even have to open their mouths to place their origin. Lots of nations are known exclusively for their beauty on every continent. England never rates in this global view. Ever.

The English Rose never met full bloom before it shriveled and died.

You can't have it all all of the time. Go poll Asia populace. African populace. Canadian populace & on & on.

There's a reason Harry and that Chloe Green snatched up Americans. Only North American genes can save your future baby if you're Englishy. I'd say it's a fact.

America has created this impossible standard of beauty by accident. All from dealing with the sins of the past amusingly. America is the otherwordly recipe for lemonade.

I love how the family orders are given discretely and then BAM! they show up at events. Congrats to Kate. Do it, bitch!

I suspect she will get RVO early on during Charles' reign, and become a Lady of the Garter toward the end of his reign.

R84

"North American genes"

I assume you mean they're descended from the Sioux, the Pawnee and the Hopi?

Sorry if this has been posted recently, here's a documentary about Princess Margaret. She comes off as a thoroughly unpleasant person, even her friends seemed to dislike her.

Mary the Princess Royal was the only member of the royal family to be a Dowager Quarterly cover girl.

R88, are you sure that's real? If so.....HAHAHAHA!

Yes, Rose...that's a real magazine cover. I saw it on the magazine rack next to "Better Homos and Gardens" and "Nun's Life".

I will retort to your supposition

~lay her issues down to being "funny looking"? Please - everyone around her was predicting she'd be a beauty by the time she was 16. Everyone knew she'd gotten the looks of the three girls. Sarah wasn't bad, but Jane was born frumpy - it was Diana who got the real looks."

Yes, EVERYONE AROUND HER. EVERY english ONE AROUND HER

Not Americans nor Canadians or the whole globe for that matter. America is currently experiencing a mental breakdown but she can always take comfort in her legendary fruit of hybridization. Gotta give it to them. Not only did Prince Harry and billionaire heiress Chloe Green swoop in and reproduced with the genes of Americans but American fertility donor specialists are making a mint off of predominately English clientele. That says it right there. There's that case of the sperm being extracted from sole English heir corpse being mixed with an American egg donor. No, it is not because of legalities to this groundbreaking case to present to courts. They could have any egg donor and they went the way all fabulously wealthy Brits do by hitting up American sources. Harvesting eggs and sperm from Americans is where the money is at. The U$ & Canada are raking it in.

I take great pleasure in reminding Americans that their legacy of diversiveness is one hot fucking commodity.

I rest my case, Your Dateloungnish🔱

Fucking r91 please go away. The first thread was great.

I think Kate looked amazing at the State Dinner. I didn't LOVE the dress, but I didn't hate it. She can sure bounce back from having a baby, can't she?

I saw the documentary r87 posted the other night. No holds barred. Margaret was SUCH a cunt. It is a must-watch. R92 I agree. I don't know why this thread isn't measuring up.

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YOu know, in the other thread we were talking about the relationships and whether Charles was close to his Mother and how Phil treated him. But I recall that he had a really close relationship with Dickie Mountbatten. Dickie was also Philip's sponsor so to speak and was the lead person promoting his marriage to ER2. At least he took a lot of credit for it. Philip and Dickie were close but Dickie and Charles were very close, almost a surrogate father thing. I have to wonder if aat a certain point Philip and Dickie Mountbatten had a competitive relationship.

She would be storing Will's rifle and all of his hunt gear in those facial steamer trunks. Charlotte inherited those storage compartments. Also a smokey cataract like iris color. You never hear people going on about how the kids resemble Kate. People say Liz or Michael Middleton because nobody really knows who Kate resembles due to the extreme tweaking.

There's the lopsided eyes that are shopped out of pics. They use an eye firming gel on the kid's bigger eye. Sometimes you can spot it in sunlit videos. The skin around the big eye shows the tightener as a cloudy white reflection as the event extends and the loose skin toned powder is due for reapplication. They're not fooling anyone who is anyone.

Bullshit R5. Sugar, stay in your lane.

R96 great observation. Both were genuinely handsome. A rarity in that set.

Mountbatten was given an important role as India moved to independence and he completely fucked it up. I can't remember the exact details, but if he hadn't been a Royal he probably would've gotten into a whole heap of trouble over it.

OMG R97, you are so full of shit. Enough with your alternative facts. Blocked you mothafucka!

Seems the the wonky eye deal came from Michael Middleton. Poor Pippa has BAGS & CIRCLES. Double whammy. She's still prettier than Kate and has an exotic look going on. I don't get the brother. Did he just have his upper lids tightened or something?

Sorry for the replica image links. The copy function is failing for some reason.

Correction @ R102^

Please just go away, freak.

Blocked the "the Queen has swollen ankles, she's going to die" troll.

Why would R101 bother not only FFng & blocking people but the need to tell us all about it? Just scroll pass. An attempt to control an anonymous message board (for free, no less😅) that does not belong to you nor paying you a salary is the most entertaining aspect of the lounge. Only a born loser would bother. That's you R101! Announcing your personal shunning only gets you FFed and your target gets automatically WWed. We even WW ourselves as to not experiencing a temp ban from posting bc of your dunderheadedness.🚫 Jig is up 🛇

If you're gonna spend the effort on anything in life, make it your own. Normal people figure out this life strategy by 30 yrs. Success is not due to luck.

Buy a site at godaddy and pimp it out here in the links. Build your own site with the help of Datalounge. What the fuck is wrong with you?

We would even suggest domain names and help you in your endeavor.

You, instead are parading as a poster child for why toxic people are always abandoned in life.

r106 the first thread was a great read, it concentrated on the historical Royals more than the present, and the posters were literate and intelligent. Your posts are just verbal diarrhea.

Correct r107, I blocked that person a couple of posts ago, I just went to check my history, and holy diarrhea indeed. A veritable river of it! Hopefully we can get our mojo back.

R105! You made us scroll up to R5 and bestow a WW. We all did. That's why we're still here. You're still here bc we wouldn't dream of blocking your self loathing projectionist ass. For your sake we hope you just get nasty when you're drinking and your rantings aren't indicative of a deep character flaw. Hope it is the former for you or you should consider 'calling it a day'.

Dickie Mountbatten was a classic case of "failing up." He was appointed Viceroy of India during the time when the Indian independence was coming to a head, and the British were implementing their withdrawal. Of course the faction led by Jinna wanted partition to divide Muslims from Hindus and create Pakistan. All of these sturggles, the politics, the mess was in motion before Dickie came on the scene. It was a thankless job to preside over the changing of the guard, but he did it, and if it was fucked up no one would notice how incompetent he was. But he was very charming. a had an affair with Nerhu. It lasted for years.

Just two letters away from SCARF! & a doorknob for you, knob @R108

R106 doesn't even show up on my screen. Must have blocked him/her a few days ago.

One of the rare photos of Queen Victoria smiling.

That whole Indian/Pakastani undercurrent imperialist era makes me lose interests. Thank heavens North America avoided that whole debacle. Could you imagine it being the norm to meet friends with a "curry" & bitter ale instead of hooking up over quesadillas w/lime infused sour cream, mojitos, Coronas, sizzling fajitas and the like?

God Bless North America♾

R112 thanks for acknowledging R106. WW for R106 everyone 🆙

Kate should've kept a little of the extra weight. When she gets too thin like this, it shows all over her face. I know she gets Botox, so I don't know why the forehead wrinkles are that deep at 36 years old.

Great find r113. I've never seen one of her smiling, she looks so different!

R116, it is the underlying musculature that determines forehead wrinkles. Try placing a piece of medical tape vertically when in private for a few weeks and they will greatly diminish. Remove contact lenses from eyes as much as possible and the micro muscles will relax and defer to cleaner eyelid shape. If you smoke switch out Marlboros with American Spirit or Pūr brand and dark undereye circles will fade. The European brand cigs always contained so much sugar and coats your throat like a chimney flue.

R116, underlying musculature is responsible for the forehead lines.

It seems like a lot of work to be royal. You always have to show up, and be impeccably dressed. I bet they have multiple costume changes per day.

It looks like Elizabeth and Maxima can touch each other, unlike us mere commoners. Anyone know?

Queen Victoria's childhood dolls, these little wooden dolls ( there are 132 of them) wear clothing made by Victoria & her governess.

[quote] R24: The Dutch King and Queen tower over not just The Queen, but Charles as well.

Car designers use Dutch & Sicilian models to test their seating, as they are the tallest and shortest people in Europe, I’ve heard.

I recall being in the April bar years ago, and sensing that something was off. Then I realized that, unlike everywhere else, I couldn’t see over the crowd. (I’m 6’2”.) It was an odd sensation. I’m used to having to bend down in a loud bar to talk to and hear short people.

R120, They're both Queens, so they're equal in stature (not height, of course). Look at this photo of Princess Anne curtseying to Queen Letizia. Whatever their flaws, true Royals know the protocol. Queen Letizia takes precedence, even for a British princess. There are plenty of photos of HM kissing the other crowned heads of Europe on the cheek.

Of all the Royals, Princess Anne gives the best "I smell shit" expression at every opportunity.

Surprised that King Willem of Holland is only 1.83 cm (6') and his missus is 1.78 cm (5'8") without the killer stillettos Those Brits are munchkins.

Kate's brooch made of glass, as opposed to traditional ivory, in honor of her husband's work with charity to protect tusk-bearing animals.

The photo of the queen smiling as she greets Max is so lovely @ r8.

[quote] quesadillas w/lime infused sour cream,

This sounds disgusting.

Mmm. Sounds good. By "lime infused," I think they mean just the zest of the lime was used, not the juice.

[quote]My god [R30] those kunzite earrings are off the charts! The setting is so unique. Dying here. Imagine those pink earrings on a beauty with green or blue eyes. They're wasted on this woman.

Mary!

Lady Fortesque didn't notice that her prized diamond and emerald ring was missing from her right middle finger until she returned home later that day. Queen Mary as she turned to walk away: "I got SKILLZ, bitches! Like taking candy from a baby!"

Ever since I watched The Crown I have wondered if the Royals use tutors to educate themselves about certain issues. I was recalling the scenes where Elizabeth was chastising her mother, albeit very gently, about her lack of a proper education, and then hiring some professor type to instruct her. I read a recent biography of Charles, and it seems that he has hired and befriended experts and activists in those fields he is interested in too. So with William, Catherine Harry and Meghan, I've wondered if they're doing the same thing. I hope they are. Talking about Mental Health Issues or macro economics, etc it would seem they'd want to at least understand the basics. And they certainly have the means and the access to experts.

R19 The Queen is 92, what do you want?! The fact that she can walk unaided and still go horseback riding is nothing short of amazing.

She had give up riding horses a few years ago, which she used to do daily. Occasionally she still rides one of her Shetland ponies accompanied by mounted security.

Queen Mary, smoothest of criminals, shows absolutely no sign of culpability as the rest of the Royal family search frantically for a solid gold/jewel encrusted baby rattle - a gift from the Shah of Iran. Queen Mary: "I'ma have Pip drop that shit off at Gerrard to fashion a Pimp Goblet stating ****Mary, Queen of Hustlers****

R134 Yes the Queen only ventures out on ponies now but it's not occasional, she continues to ride regularly. She is spotted out most weekends at Windsor with a security guard, Often she is seen with Edward and Sophie's children accompanying her. Regardless of the frequency the fact that she even goes out riding anymore is a statement to her physical health.

Queen Mary, stalking yet another hapless victim so she can acquire more precious jewels.

Queen Maxima was striking!

The Queen with the Dutch royal couple.

That's funny, R137. Okay, this will be my last - I promise - of my Queen Mary, Hustler Extraordinaire series.

Setting a rare Royal precedent, Queen Mary signs a proclamation declaring her acknowledgement that the church retains full rightful ownership of all the gold regalia positioned at the alter, and she is not to help herself to it........EVER AGAIN! The Archbishop of Canterbury looks on, giggling nervously. Queen Mary: "HaHa hell! These fools can't fade me! No where in this document do I spy the word "Jewels" being mentioned even once. I'll be back next Sunday with a sturdy screw driver under my hat to dig out some of those precious stones - Queen Mama needs a new bracelet!"

Queen Maxima with Sophie the Countess of Wessex.

The Stuart Tiara in all of its glory.

The tiara from another angle.

The royal procession to the state dinner table. The poor Queen looks like she's shrinking.

Camilla looks bored. She'd rather be in the country with her horses and dogs.

I'm not crazy about the dress worn by Catherine. She gets some points for wearing Diana's favorite tiara.

When you see videos of these photo ops, you realise how awkward it all is. Shuffling in, posing for the cameras, making inane small talk. Must be stifling.

R146 - That tiara is on permanent loan to Kate for occasions like this one. The dress has grown on me after repeated viewings, although I still don't care for the mermaid bottom - but I do like the very feminine shoulder and details, and the colour.

Maxima is a good example of a not particularly pretty woman but a very appealing one with a strong sense of self who made the most of those qualities.

R145 - I shouldn't wonder - those state banquets are from the most entertaining evenings one could imagine. Once the thrill of the designer gown and the weight of the jewels fades, it looks, as Henry Higgins would say, deadly dull.

R140 I am DYING! I love Gangsta Queen Mary

Glad I could make you laugh, R149! Look for my others on the previous thread.

The Queen Mary shit is about as funny as a smear test.

Queen Mary's kleptomaniac tendencies behind, it's shocking how much the present Queen and moves like Queen Mary.

I am rather enjoying the Queen Mary, Master Grifter posts, if only because they're quite true! She grifted from every aristo family she ever visited.

R150 I read them all and loved them! IMO Klepto Queen Mary is now a DL fave.

I agree that Kate looks very regal, but gaining 10 pounds would take a good 5 years off of her, and she still wouldn't be even a little bit fat.

Oh, and thanks to whoever posted the photo of grinning Queen Vicky. You can really see the resemblance to her son and heir in that picture.

There were additional photos of Willem and Maxima towering over HM today, as they toured London. I'm waiting for photos from the return banquet hosting by the Nassau-Oranges.

I'm still wondering about Charles and how small, slumped, and depressed he looked last night.

If he pegs out sooner than expected, Harry and Meghan will find themselves curtseying to William and Kate before they're much older.

I'm still of the opinion that Charles has either already agreed to abdicated in favor of his son when the time comes or has agreed to rule for a limited period--say 10 years--before handing it over to William. Kate and William (and to a lesser extent Meghan and Harry) are being positioned as the future of the monarchy, not Charles and Camilla.

R156 He's nearly 70. Small, slumped and depressed about sums it up. Can you imagine being on the earth for 7 decades. Shit it loooong. Are you the same one worrying about the Queen's ankles?

R157 When the Queen was told about Juliana's abdication her response was apparently. "Well that's the Dutch for you". She's not going to abdicate and Charles won't abdicate. That's not what the British do. British monarchs take their crowns to the grave.

Is there any connection between the Cambridge tiara and the title?

QEII made a solemn vow a very long time ago in a very different era. There's no knowing whether Charles has the same sense of duty.

While I'm not in agreement that Charles has made some kind of deal with William about the throne, I don't think he has the same idea of commitment that QEII has shown. I can see him abdicating in favour of William once his advanced years start showing through but I can't see him avoiding the throne entirely - he's waited too long for it.

If the Windsors created a system where monarchs took the throne in their early 40s and then retired in their early 70s, it would certainly be a more civilized way of doing it. You wouldn't have a wizened nonagenarian still tottering around the state banquets, nor a sad-sack septugenarian heir waiting decades for the crown.

If the Queen lives as long as her mother did, Charles won't be king until he's 79 years old!

And given the Queen's robust health, she just might make it.

Charles is far too vain and narcissistic to agree to step aside or limit his term. Won't happen in a million years.

Well, given Charles' look of ruddy ill-health (he really does seem a prime candidate for a stroke or heart attack), it may not get that messy. It's quite possible his mother will outlive him, and the crown will go directly to William that way. Which means Megan and Harry's children won't ever be HRH's unless William makes them so, as that's a privilege reserved for the children and male-line grandchildren of a monarch.

[quote]Surprised that King Willem of Holland is only 1.83 cm (6') and his missus is 1.78 cm (5'8") without the killer stillettos Those Brits are munchkins.

The metric conversion calculator (first or second hit on Google) is incorrect. 178 cm is indeed 5'10" (I did not shrink 2", dammit!)

Found this photo of Margaret, The Queen Mum and The Queen mucking about on the Balmoral estate in Scotland.

There it is. The frauiest picture ever taken.

The transformation of Diana.

The more I read about Diana, the more I think that she died at exactly the right time for her legacy. If she'd lived even a year longer, she'd have made a totally disastrous and embarrassing second marriage. If she'd lived 5 years longer, she would have started to age like hell and probably given Wills and Harry a Muslim half-sibling or two, to boot. Like Marilyn, it wasn't a pretty death, but it made her a legend.

1) The Queen will never abdicate, 2) Charles will not abdicate.

There is no mechanism for succession of a British Monarch other than the death of the previous monarch. In order for the monarch to abdicate it would require legislation to brought forth not just in London, but in all the 16 countries which retain the British Monarch as head of state. In 1936 when Edward VIII abdicated, it required legislation in London and formal consent from the old British Dominions like Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In 2018, countries like Canada and Australia would have to issue constitutional amendments (in Canada all 10 provincial governments would also have to pass this legislation) and it would likely open a debate on the Monarchy. Not going to happen.

Charles has not waited all of his adult life to be King just to hand it over to William. Charles will be King within the next 5 to 10 years and his reign will be a short one (he has openly admitted this). William is in no rush to be King. There are rumours that if the Queen is still alive at 95 (which she likely will be) she's going to seriously curtail her public duties and allow Charles to be come a de facto Regent. This is likely the reason why there are no plans to celebrate her Platinum Jubilee in 2022.

I'll be honest, I was sad watching this state visit by the King and Queen of the Netherlands. Charles took on the duties Prince Philip normally took on during state visits and it really hit me seeing how tiny and hunched the Queen looks now that we're really moving towards the end of her reign.

R158 - The Queen's ankles?! What the fuck do the Queen's ankles have to do with the succession?!

Yes, generally, the British don't abdicate (except for that one VERY famous exception, and that got Britain the closest to a republic it came since Cromwell).

But the fact remains that this is 2018, not 1936. HM really did her son and heir dirty by forcing him to live his live as a second in waiting - she's made him a laughingstock of sorts, and set him up either to be as dictatorial as possible if and when he gets there, or to function as a lame duck King as people turn to William and Kate and their children.

Harry and Meghan are the very short-term future of the monarchy. What they really are is the next generation Yorks, receding ever farther down the line as the Cambridge kids grow up, start public life, and then marrying and breeding.

Style of thing.

They ought to introduce some kind of legislation that would allow for the graceful retirement of a monarch. I know Queen Elizabeth vowed to serve her country all the days of her life, but it's really not fair to make her keep running around cutting ribbons at her age. I don't think anyone would fault her for retiring--they don't have to call it abdicating!--and letting Charles have it a few years earlier, if he wants it.

Harry and Meghan are doing exactly what the spare & spouse are supposed to do: Pick up slack with the more minor tours/engagements, and generate enough gaucheness or even scandal to make the heir & wife look better by contrast. Margaret did it for Lilibet, Andy and Fergie did it for a while before Charles and Di completely melted down, and H&M will do it for Wills and Kate until the Cambridge children grow up enough to become interesting.

R169 - I suspect she would much rather have had a more successful marriage, lived to see her sons married and grandchildren born, and become Queen. This legacy bullshit is fine for film stars. But to state that Diana, whatever her other flaws, "did the right thing for her legacy" is just short of lunatic or revolting, possibly both.

She was a mother with relatively young children. I didn't like her, but for ffs, can we come back to Planet Earth about a still vital, attractive mother in her thirties dying leaving behind one child of 12 and another of 15?!

If she'd been in England with her sons instead of yachting it up with Dodi Fayed, OR if she'd had enough sense to buckle her own goddamn seatbelt, she wouldn't have died.

The truth is, the last year of her life--photo-ops for landmines notwithstanding--had been one PR disaster after another. Much of the general public was both transfixed and disgusted by the scandals, and if she had lived, there is no indication she would have done anything but continue to spiral. Which would have been fun to watch as long as she was youngish and beautiful. But that kind of behavior NEVER ages well: We have the examples of Princess Margaret and Duchess Fergie as proof of that.

If Diana had lived, she wouldn't have had a successful marriage, but at least one, and possible two or three more failed marriages. She would have seen her children grow up to become horrified by and ashamed of her, and she never, ever, ever would have become Queen.

Death in a Paris tunnel is preferable to that.

R172 There are two underlying reasons the Queen will never abdicate. The first is, when her Uncle David (Edward VIII) abdicated it heavily damaged the reputation of the monarchy and it was viewed by members of the royal family as the ultimate act of betrayal. While other monarchies have adopted abdication as a natural evolution given expanding life expediencies, for the Queen it is still a dirty word. Second, at the coronation is a religious sacrament as the monarch is anointed with holy oil. Anointing in Christian terms literally means "set aside for life." In the Queen's eyes, as a very religious woman, she believes she was set a side for life by God to be Queen. I think it is very likely she's going to go into some form of semi-retirement and heavily cut back on public engagements. She has already started, she no longer travels abroad, and William and Harry are increasingly taking over her Commonwealth responsibilities. The Queen's reign will not formally end until the day she drops dead.

I remember that people were pretty grossed out by Dodi Fayed, he was quite scummy and sleazy. Everybody was like "she could do WAY better than that troll."

And then of course she died.

[quote]If the Queen lives as long as her mother did, Charles won't be king until he's 79 years old! And given the Queen's robust health, she just might make it.

I would argue the Queen, while looking much older and smaller, appears in better health or at least shape than did her long-lived mother. The Queen still rides and drives. Into her nineties the QM had both hips replaced (starting age 95) but her mobility was already affected by then. The Queen seems quite sort by comparison. I have no doubt this Queen will reach 100. I would also expect at a really advanced age she will deputized like mad but will not abdicate. Under the current Regency Act Charles can assume the regency subject to the determination she is incapacitated. She can keep asking Charles and William to act for her until she dies so long as she has her marbles.

There's something a little dishonest about essentially abdicating without actually abdicating, though. Either obey the freaking vow and cut ribbons until you drop, or acknowledge that times change and lifespans expand, and retire (or abdicate, if you must call it that).

R179 After almost 70 years, the Queen can do whatever the fuck she wants.

William is in no rush to be king. He wants his children to have as close to a normal life as possible for as long as possible. The closer they get to the throne, the more responsibility and the more scrutiny.

R171 What are you on about? The Queen has not made a laughing stock of Charles. And she hasn't turned him into a dictator. Jesus, Mary! You're making a tit of yourself.

And there's no "generally" about it. British monarchs do not abdicate. That's why Edward the VIII was such a scandal.

Of course she can, R180. My point is that it's not really keeping that oh-so-sacred vow if she essentially retires at 95, without literally doing so. She can keep that vow or not keep it, but she's the one who's made such a big freaking deal about it.

I liked Diana a lot but I do recall feeling pretty repelled by her erratic behaviour on the summer she died. It wasn’t very dignified. I think she would have struggled to find a role and remain respected. There were sort of two crowds watched Diana. Those who took her seriously and recognized the power of her fame and those who thought she was just a supercharged soap. Those people are the ones who fall all over the wretched Merchagain Marker. They have no view of the institution as an element in society. Just the showgirl. Which suits her limited abilities.

It is a big deal to her, though. She is deeply religious. She believes she made a vow to God. Hard to get your head around but that is how she sees it, apparently. So the notion of giving it up for convenience is alien to her. She sees all this as an ordained duty and, by nature, she is dutiful.

r178, I stated that the Queen WOULD make it as long as her mother, not that she wouldn't.

Then if it's a big deal to her, she shouldn't effectively retire, clinging to the letter of her vow but not the spirit of it. That's my point.

But I've made it a couple of times now, so I'll shut up.

R186 I didn’t say you didn’t.

r178 my guess is that the Queen will be alert enough to realize when she's really to fragile to perform her duties or sign documents (one the other primary roles of the monarch) and she'll help craft an official Regency for Charles, to officially take over. But she'll remain monarch until her death no matter what.

It astounds me how well actually both her and Philip are doing. He's stooped a bit but he got out of the car and walked into Eugenie's wedding at a good pace, unaided without help or a cane or walker. And he's 97. The Queen also walks unaided, although she has slowed her gait greatly the past couple of years. Both still highly alert with full faculties.

It struck me that in three recent official Royal Wedding family portraits - Eugenie's, Harry's, and William's back in 2011 - they are the only grandparents pictured, because they are the only ones still alive of all four sets.

R170

A few other English Monarch's have Abdicated, mainly not of their own volition admittedly.

Edward II, Richard II and James II all gave up the throne.

Charles will be KIng. But I can definitely see him stepping aside once his health intervenes and slows him down. Let's say he becomes king in two years. He might serve until he is 85 or 86 and then pack it in. I don't see him doing what Betty is doing. And frankly if you look at these photos and video clips of The Queen, she is noticeably slowing down. She often has a befuddled look on her face, and she is walking a lot slower. A lot slower.

I cannot see her managing much longer. Not saying she won't live long, but I can't see her being an active ruler much longer. Right now they a re surrounding her with her family and Charles and Anne have picked up the slack. Even Andrew has stepped up more, which isn't saying much. William Catherine, Harry and Meghan are busy as well. Sophie and Edward, the same. At some point very soon, Charles will be King in everything but name. He has already assumed more of the administrative duties. Hell, in 12 more years, Prince George will but cutting ribbons.

R175 - First of all, her sons with her husband and his family in Scotland at the time, per the divorce agreement, remember? End of August? Balmoral? Charles had to go wake them up and tell them? They only came down to London when the pressure mounted on the Queen to return to her grieving subjects? Diana was persona non grata at her own brother's estate that summer; it was harder finding rich summer hosts for a lonely divorced ex-future Queen than sh thought.

I totally agree about the seatbelt, and we all know Diana wasn't capable of successful relationships because of her vast unfulfillable narcissism. Borderline personality disorder if ever was.

But you're missing my point: you spoke as if she did something purposefully in dying in that tunnel, you know "did the right thing for her legacy"? If she could have done the right thing ever, I don't think her legacy would have been first on her list of priorities.

Those who were close to Diana said that she wasn't that into Dodi, it was just a fling and it would've run its course had she lived. They never would've been married.

R193 - I'd put quite a bit of money on that. I think she needed to look loved up for the paps, needed attention badly at a low point, and wanted to rub the BRF's face in it. But even a woman so feckless as Diana had to know the Fayeds were not her class as permanencies. And one of the boys disliked him intensely, I think William, she would never have married a man either of the boys disliked.

Not to mention that I can just see Charles hauling Diana back into court to renegotiate the custody arrangement if she married someone like Dodi.

She wouldn't have married Dodi, but she would have remarried at some point, and she did have a taste for Muslim men. Had that been all, the Powers that Be might have let her go on spiraling --all her bad behavior made Charles look better. But she was young enough to have more children, and the thought of a Muslim half sibling to the heir to the British throne was never going to be countenanced.

I don't care what the blood work says, you'll never convince me that someone in the intelligence services didn't have Diana taken out. That accident was too convenient for you many people.

If course Diana didn't run herself into that brick wall to preserve her legacy, R194. Don't take my phrasing so literally. But if she had died even a year later she wouldn't have been as mourned, because she was already well on her way to disgusting everyone with her erratic behavior. That's what I meant by perfect timing. Yes, it's too bad she died, but her death in 1997 made her a legend in a way a later death wouldn't have. It's no t superior to living happily to a rope old age, but that was probably never in the cards for Diana.

R132, from all I’ve read they aren’t too bright, so I doubt it.

Harry is an moron. Like "borderline retarded" moron.

Harry is A moron.

So his portrayal on the Windsors is accurate?

R198 what did you do—place?

Diana's relationship with Dodi was all over the news that summer, and public opinion was low. People thought Diana was making a tacky spectacle of herself and it was undignified. Then she died and everyone forgot all about it.

I agree that Diana would've continued to be a trainwreck had she lived, definitely would've had more inappropriate lovers.

Diana had a good heart and she did a lot of good works, but Jesus Christ did she have SHIT taste in men!

[quote]Is there any connection between the Cambridge tiara and the title?

In a sense there is, in that the original Cambridge Lovers Knot tiara was originally gifted to one of the earlier Duchesses. Problem is, the current "Cambridge" Tiara isn't that tiara all, but a modified copy.

Royal jewel fans will know that this tiara should technically be called the "Queen Mary Lovers Knot" tiara, since it was QM who commissioned it, basing the design on the original Cambridge version that had been inherited by a distant relation (one she couldn't steal from! she obviously coveted a lot of stuff). That og version is now owned by German nobles, who wear it out from time to time.

Link below explains the story and timeline, with pictures.

In fact the original Cambridge tiara just made a public appearance, this past weekend in Germany:

I wonder what Princess Anne thinks of Fergie and how she feels about the rumoured prospect of her remarrying Andrew and becoming a member of the royal family again?

Diana's real love was the Pakistani doctor who broke up with her.

I look at all these old photographs of past generations of other royals, and it amuses/amazes me how they adorn themselves with spectacular jewels, tiaras, fabulous silks and laces, etc. as if they will confer beauty on themselves and it just underscores that they are a homely lot who'd look fine behind the counter of the local fish monger or standing their post behind the wash at the laundry tubs..

The Queen Mary comedy in this thread is hysterical! My stomach hurts.

I think all the rumors about Andrew and Fergie remarrying come from Fergie. They might be chummy but why would Andrew take her on again?

Well he already lives with her full time , both at his main home and his vacation chalet in Switzerland. In fact they co-purchased the latter for themselves. Re-marriage would just make it all official (and kill Prince Philip, but hey).

Not happening. Andrew has lady friends, some of them are even legal.

Fergie wishes.

Is it pathological that in each of the last three generations within the BRF, the "spare" exhibits eerily similar traits? Hedonistic, delusions they could do the job better, the flouting of rules and protocol, selecting ill-suited jokes for a spouse. Except for the case with Edward VIII, who though the heir, nevertheless behaved very Margaret/Andrew/Harry-like and serves as a cautionary tale of what disasters would await if god forbid their like ascended the throne.

There's really no point to the "spare", especially once the heir produces offspring. They have no dynastic purpose or role. They end up ne'er-do-wells with poor judgement and impulse control.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

What's even worse, if you click to see the whole image, is that the local royalty walking with them is looking straight at it and obviously trying hard to discretely suppress laughing.

Andrew and Fergie both reside at Royal Lodge, but it would be stretching it to say they "live together." Royal Lodge is a vast residence. Fergie has her own wing with sitting rooms, bedrooms, etc. It may even have a separate entrance. For all we know, they don't see each other at all in the course of a day.

r215, she is truly The People's Duchess. LOVE HER!

I’ve always thought the reason for Fergie and Prince Andrew still ‘living together’ was that she knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak.

Charles is gay, or even bisexual but this has been known/suspected/rumored for awhile now. I also remember the rumors about Harry being gay.

^^ More Datalounge invention unless you can provide proof instead of regurgitating fantasy.

R215, I can't find another reference to her wearing a dress with the tag still on it. Can you share the direct link to the article?

I can but the link won't work because it's the Daily Fail and a direct link to them doesn't usually work here. Just google, it's all over. And you don't trust the photo I did post? Do you think it's shopped?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]can but the link won't work because it's the Daily Fail and a direct link to them doesn't usually work here.

Right click on the picture, then select "copy image address," then paste it in the "Web Site Link" bar below. That usually works.

That's exactly what I did to post the pic I did post, r226. In Firefox, its "copy image location."

r227 it works with Google Chrome. Although DL has been known to be wonky at times, maybe it's a problem with this site and nothing on your end.

Andrew has given Ferie a home, to keep Fergie out of trouble. Apparently she is broke. She remains a duchess so instead of getting in trouble influence peddling with slimy characters now she has a place to live, the freedom to earn income through legal means like Weight Watchers, and she is probably on an allowance. I was watching Andrew very carefuly during Eugenie's wedding and he seems like an abusive overbearing monster. He is probably disgusted with Fergie. It is too bad Beatrice got stuck with her instead of being a real Maid of Honnor. Andrew adjusting her train and hovering around her was just sad. But I can hear the Queen telling Andrew,"For the sake of your daughters you must see to her welfare. She is your responsibility and we can't have her running round causing scandal. And while we're on the subject of scandal, Andrew..."

Unlike Diana, Fergie got screwed in the divorce settlement department, plus she's a spendthrift. Her daughters are the Queen's grandchildren so Andrew has to manage her and he does so, grudgingly. Andrew rushing to adjust Eugenie 's train while Fergie waited in the corner was telling.

That doesn't look like a price tag: It looks like a care tag: Machine washable, no chlorine bleach, etc.

Its still a tag and it is hilarious. Maybe she agreed to do this as part of her merchandising because it has the brand name on it.

You know what? I could live with the tag if she would just wear something that FITS for once. Everything she wears is at least a size too big.

The Royal Family has known its share of petite women: The Queen is about 5'4 and Princess Margaret was 5'1. There's no reason why her clothes can't be tailored to fit her. Either she can't be bothered to get things fitted properly, or these are all merched sample sizes she has to give back unaltered. Either way, tacky.

The necklace Kate wore.

Last worn by the Queen Mother 25 years ago?

R234 Did she raid the Queen Mum's tomb for it LOL

Seeing historical jewels through the years always gives me a strange chill. The women age, decay, die, and the jewels sparkle on. Spooky.

^Well, here ya go, Jack Frost

Thanks very much, R237. Chills or no, I plan to watch that.

Who is the first woman in the picture at R234?

Princess Alexandra, the long-suffering wife of Edward VII. The piece is actually her wedding necklace.

Queen Alexandra, consort to Edward VII. Queen Elizabeth's Great Grandmother

R239 That Is Queen Alexandra who was the consort of King Edward VII - the eldest son of Queen Victoria and Great-Grandmother of the Present Queen. She was born Princess Alexandra of Denmark. Victoria and Albert wanted their son to marry a non-german Princess and Alexandra ticked all the boxes. Alexandra and Edward did love each other in their own way, but Edward was a serial cheater.

Alexandra was beautiful, but spoke limited English and was extremely hard of hearing. Edward, who was jaded and easily bored, liked chatty, clever women who could entertain him, so he frequently humiliated Alexandra by carrying on with various aristocratic mistresses. He was especially fond of the American heiresses married to English aristocrats--he found them sexy and amusing. Jenny Jerome, Winston Churchill's mother, was one of his favorites.

The Duchess of Manchester, nee Consuelo Yznaga, another of Edward's American paramours.

R243 Alexandra spoke English well, she wasn't initially hard of hearing, but that developed after she contracted scarlet fever during one of her pregnancies. After she lost much of her hearing, she retreated more and more from public life and basically allowed Edward to find his sexual outlets elsewhere. There is a touching story that while Edward was on his death bed, Alexandra called for Alice Keppel (the King's final mistress for about the last decade of his life) to come and say goodbye to Edward. Keppel btw is Camilla's great-grandmother. Alexandra once famously said after Edward died "I knew he loved me best."

Edward VII's most notable mistress, Alice Keppel who was the Great Grandmother of Camilla. I see that I'm not the only one who watched "Millionaire American Princesses" via The Smithsonian Chanel.

You may be right about her command of English--though I seem to recall reading somewhere that she wasn't great at it--but the deafness was hereditary. The Rheumatic fever she contracted during one of her pregnancies left her with a limp.

Alexandra also had one boob. The other "boob" was actually a small house cat that she kept curled up under her bodice to simulate a breast. Also, every time she spoke, she would spit on the carpet after each sentence. And, he was missing a foot.

(as long as we're making stuff up)

I haven't had a chance to watch that yet, but I recently read Anne de Courcy's the Husband Hunters, which is about the dollar heiresses, and it's a fun, fast read.

It would be nice to think that Edward loved Alexandra best of all, but I suspect that Edward's lifelong love was really himself. There wasn't a vice that King Tum-Tum (as he was known) didn't happily indulge himself in. This is the man, after all, who had a specially made sex chair when he became too fat to do it the normal way.

This was a good watch. Early 1970s BBC mini series on King Edward VII from birth to death. I'll start you off with episode one (for anyone who cares to see it).

Queen Victoria and her son Edward VII shared the same horrible addiction to food. It is alluded to in some historical shows but I saw something about how bad it was fairly recently. The ate/gorged huge amounts of food at meals. It would make most people sick to eat that much food at one time. I don't know how they digested it. Sometimes one meal ran into the time of the next meal. Guests at their dinners were very uncomfortable. Edward VII spent at least half of the year in Biarritz. He lived at that beautiful hotel and mostly concentrated on food. He did have "the box" sent to him and honored his duty as King from afar.

What do you mean, making stuff up? Alexandra's otosclerosis--which she inherited from her mother--is well-documented. As is the limp from rheumatic fever. Perhaps the pregnancy complications made her hearing worse, but it didn't cause the deafness.

I think the author's name is Jane Ridley, but there are a couple of really excellent, entertaining biographies of Victoria's son, Edward the VII and they don't portray Victoria in a very favorable light. She was a horrible mother to all her kids.

I have to wonder what kind of relationship Queen Elizabeth had with her Uncle David, Duke of Windsor after she was queen.

Elizabeth was named for her grandmother and her great grandmother. Elizabeth Alexandra Mary. The Princess Royal is Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise.

Victoria's eating habits were quite rude: Social etiquette dictated that no one started eating before the Queen did, and everyone stopped when she stopped. She gulped her food down in record-time, which meant a lot of people didn't get to finish half their meals.

From what I understand, the real problem with Victoria and Bertie--aside from the fact that the Hanoverian-descended monarchs inevitably hate their heirs--is that they were too similar. They were both small, lusty, gluttonous, and not particularly intellectual. If Bertie had been more like his older sister Vicky, who like their father Albert was an abstemious intellectual, Victoria would have respected him more.

The tiara that Kate is wearing in the picture at R234 (the Lover's Knot Tiara) was supposedly one of Princess Diana's favorites.

As Kate has worn it several times, does this mean that she and only she will be wearing it?

I doubt any other woman could get away with wearing it. Camilla or Meghan would probably be crucified if they tried.

I think it a distinct possibility that the Queen is going to leave all her personal jewelry to William, bypassing Charles/Camilla altogether. I can't see the Queen letting the 15M pound Granny's Chips go to Camilla or Charles, who would have the right to give them to Camilla. I wonder how that will really play out.....

R257, Charles couldn't just divide up his mother's jewels and give them away to anyone he pleases. There are stipulations. The jewelry that is the personal property of the reigning sovereign, such as Granny's Chips, are to be passed down from the reigning monarch to their direct heir only.

Isn't some of that jewelry personal property?

The Greville bequest jewelry was given specifically as a gift to the Queen Mother (then Queen Elizabeth) when Margaret Greville.

How does it then belong to "the sovereign"?

Not sure about "Granny's Chips".

^^ "...when Margaret Greville died".

We're talking about the Queen's PERSONAL jewelry

Just did a small bit of digging. Based on what I found, I think that the Queen will probably leave all her personal jewels to the personal ESTATE as there are no inheritance taxes whatsoever from sovereign to sovereign. Perhaps not a great analogy, but I see it all being kept together as the books in a library. Those who wish to wear something may check it with the proviso that they must return it.

That's the best system, anyway. It keeps valuable jewelry of historical significance from winding up in cadet branches of the family or with disgruntled ex-wives who will sell it for the cash. Nobody needs to own a hundred-year-old diamond tiara, or at least not two dozen of 'em.

r262 is correct. It will be kept together and passed down through the main heirs.

Any smaller personal items she wishes to leave to Andrew, Anne and Edward will be theirs to do what they wish. I'm sure any jewelry she leaves to Edward, for example, will be worn Sophie but eventually passed down to their daughter and son. I don't think he's as silly as to 'gift' it outright to her. None of the super wealthy usually do this (unless very stupid and mismanaged).

Remember too the women of the Royal Family get a fair amount of jewelry gifted to them... the Saudis were notorious for throwing jewels at them. The engagement ring for the vile Meagain, Duchess of Soho House, included diamonds that had been Diana's, probably rolling around loose. They don't want to jewels.

A time investment, but interesting.

I know that when Sarah Ferguson wed Andrew, she was given a new tiara as a wedding present by the family, which became the York Tiara. When she divorced, she kept the tiara. It's often been speculated that the Windsors didn't expect the marriage to last, which is why she got a new tiara instead of being gifted or loaned one with historical significance.

I imagine that Buckingham Palace must have a jewel ROOM - sort of like a jewelry store. A few guards posted at the door. They have a lot of valuable jewelry at their disposal.

Sophie Wessex's wedding tiara, though it's been speculated was created from jewels belonging to Queen Victoria, may have historical significance, but it's ugly AF.

That wedding tiara was a gift to Fergie, r267, for her to do as she pleased with it. But when the Yorks divorced I'm guessing part of their agreement was that she keep the tiara to hand down to her daughters.

Fergs probably sold the tiara years ago to fund one of her many unsuccessful business attempts or another.

Sophies's tiara is SOOOOO cheap looking. It looks like Party Pieces tat. Fergie's isn't much better.

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[quote] Although she still has two dogs, Candy and Vulcan, they are dorgis, dachshund and corgi crosses.

She has a dog named Vulcan?

R274 The dog Vulcan was probably named after the Roman God Volcānus - the god of fire.

I doubt HM watches Star Trek.

She loved her dogs more than her children.

I believe HM is a very reserved person, who has had to keep her emotions in check. Like many reserved people, affection with animals comes much easier than it does with other people. It's very easy to see when she interacts with dogs and horses.

[quote]She loved her dogs more than her children.

Who didn't?

R255 I'd heard that Diana hated that tiara - too heavy and gave her headaches. This is why she used the Spencer tiara so often.

Everyone should have a comfortable tiara in the family.

I think Charles was a good and available father. Philip was severe and unsympathetic with Charles when Charles hated his boarding school, but when William was wobbling at St. Andrews Charles was supportive and they worked through it. Charles always was the soft one. He's very spoiled, but his parents each thought he was "wet" - needy and insecure. This is not the type of person who will turn into his father when it comes to parenting his sons, although I do suspect he'd have preferred daughters.

The thought of the queen riding around in a Jaguar with seven corgis in it cracks me up. It must have been so crowded and stinky eventually. Queen, Royal Protection officer, and SEVEN canines. At least she was thrifty enough not to demand a separate car for the dogs.

And how about dogs during the plane's take offs and landings? Oh, to have film of it. Did they strapped in or put in kennels or did the slide and bunch at the back and front of the plane?

[quote]Everyone should have a comfortable tiara in the family.

Well, exactly, yes.

The huge personal estate of the Windsors is another reason why they won't abdicate in favor of the younger heir. It would create problems with passing property down to the sitting monarch. When Edward abdicated in 36, negotiating the transfer of all the estate from him to George VI took considerable time and effort.

And, it's drilled into the heads of all the British monarchs and the heirs that the Crown is for life....it's a holy vow. And, they rather sneer at the Dutch for treating it like a job you retire from.

George, R174 thinks we're not interesting.

Off with his head, if you please.

R276 Allegedly she once told a friend that they only being that treat her like a regular person behind closed doors are Philip and her dogs." I think animals have always been an emotional outlet for the Queen as someone who has been trained to keep her feelings to herself.

The Queen's children are, in birth order, Wet, Terrifying, Sleazy, and Useless.

If I were her, I'd love my dogs more, too.

Documentary on Prince Edward Albert, Queen Mary's first fiance and George V's older brother

And for the individual who expressed an interest in Jenny Jerome - perhaps you might have an interest in the following mini series:

For your visual interest, here are (supposedly) all the world's monarchs, celebrating the Queen's birthday. I know that Telegraph links are pretty tricky.

[quote]The Sovereign Monarchs Jubilee lunch, in the grand reception room at Windsor Castle. Front row, from left The Emperor of Japan, the Queen of the Netherlands, the Queen of Denmark, the King of the Hellenes, the King of Romania, the Queen, the King of Bulgarians, the Sultan of Brunei, the King of Sweden, the King of Swaziland, and Prince Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein. Middle row, from left The Prince of Monaco, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg, the King of Lesotho, the King of the Belgians, the King of Norway, the Emir of Qatar, the King of Jordan, the King of Bahrain, and the Yang di-Pertuan Agong of Malaysia. Back row, from left Nasser Mohamed Al-Jaber Al-Sabah of Kuwait, the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, the Crown Prince of Yugoslavia, the King of Tonga, the Crown Prince of Thailand, Princess Lalla Meryem of Morocco and Prince Mohammed bin Nawaf bin Abdulaziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia

R291 A few small ones are missing, like Oman and Bhutan, but Spain is the big one. Was this from when JCI was having his hip replaced...or shooting an elephant?

Still, an extraordinary photograph!

Spain (Queen Sofia) was missing because of another dispute over Gibraltar. It's only been British territory since The Treaty of Utrecht over 300 years ago in 1713!

R292, I noticed that, too! When I was Googling, I did find this photo of the Queen with Sofia from 2002. I've read here on DL (I can't find a reference, and haven't been able to locate any other source), that one of the other Queens was staying with HM at Balmoral when Diana's death was announced. I believe it was the Queen of the Netherlands, but my memory may be faulty. I would appreciate any correction, of course. I'm just amazed at sort of a surprising sorority, so to speak.

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Marvelous, thanks for adding that, R291.

I think Beatrix was up at Balmoral that day r295.

What does one do when one is visiting a fellow foreign dignitary and Head of state for a summer break, and news breaks that their world-popular, estranged daughter-in-law has been suddenly killed in a brutal car wreck in another country? And the deceased's sons are at same vacation home? Does one stay around, or quietly fly out asap to avoid the descending throngs of press and mourners?

R296, I remember it as Beatrix who was at Balmoral, absolutely, you are correct.

Your linked photo is three Queens Regnant and one Queen Consort, all good friends I imagine. Great photo!

What's this about Harry's breakdown before his wedding?

It's bullshit.

Not according to the new book r301.

I read a newish biography about Charles within the last year and I enjoyed it.

Saw a short film about Royal residences recently and they said that Beatrice and Eugenie are now charged $30,000 a year for their 4 bedroom apartment at St. James because they have no Royal duties. But now that Eugenie is married she and her husband want a place at Kensington with Harry and William. I can just see Catherine and Meghan being all happy about that. Not.

Eugenie and Jack live in Kensington Palace now.

They Gloucesters got the boot from the other huge Apartment next to Will and Kate's huge apartment, and our beloved Harry and Meghan and Fetus To Be will move in after renovations.

Poor Beatrice is a single gal living alone, poor sad old spinster.

^^^ Pretty sure they both live at KP now. They lived at St James until a few years ago. Think they are meant to pay "market price" for rent and also fairly certain that their father helps as neither has a job that could support £10000pa rent much less $30000.

Andrew has been paying for Beatrice and Eugenie's housing. Don't know what the new arrangement is now Eugenie is married to Jack. Maybe Jack is paying?

New book @ r296, excerpts conti ue to show Charles as a dithering fool, wailing ineffectually at Diana's machinations.

Beatrice and Eugenie both inherited multiple millions from their great-grandmother, the Queen Mum. They shouldn't really need Andrew to pay for their housing.

[quote]Beatrice and Eugenie both inherited multiple millions from their great-grandmother,

Considering their lifestyle and their absence of gainful employment, probably long since spent.

Eugenie is gainfully employed, although I don’t think the salary from her job would afford her the same lifestyle. Beatrice is also employed, although the details are much more fuzzy.

The Queen and Prince Philip are descendants of Empress Catherine The Great Of Russia as are the other royals who are pictured.

Charles is a sad person. I guess when we all look back we all have odd resentments. But what he should resent, he doesn't. And what he does, just makes him look kind of pathetic. He truly is an odd duck.

Also, doesn't it seem like Camilla must be sharply criticizing all of them for how she was treated? Talk about full of resentment. But she deserved every bit of it.

No, she didn’t r312. Di, on the other hand, whined publicly about “three in the marriage” while at the same time herself being the third wheel in several other marriages. Di fucked around a LOT. Cammie had her husband (who was a serial cheater) and Chuck. That’s her men. Di’s list goes on and on and most of them were while she was still married and manipulating the media for all she was worth.

I've always had a soft spot for Charles, partly because I'm a fellow Scorpio. We always read about the Queen's favorite child, and it's variously said to be Andrew, Anne or Edward. But never, ever Charles. I admire Prince Philip, but he treated Charles rather brutally. Even some of the Queen's own cousins have commented on how Charles was a sensitive child, who wasn't treated well. And the Queen had a very detached relationship with Charles. I think there's some interesting psychology there: I remember reading that she couldn't forget that he was next in line should something happen to her, and that shaped her feelings and attitude towards him. Almost as though he were a rival, and not just her child. And I'm a great fan of HM, but her strange attitude towards Charles is pretty much the only thing about her about which I disapprove.

R313, I agree with you.

So this biography of Charles is brand new. Thanks for the tip. I will be looking for it.

But wasn't the whole reason Charles couldn't marry Camilla in the first place was because she had slept around by the time he met her and therefore was not a suitable mother to the future monarch?

Camilla was quite "experienced" in matters of sex and love. It wasn't just her husband and Charles.

Back then, they still wanted a virgin for the royal consort. I think now, they'd realize that's a lost cause. It's a shame, since Camilla and Charles are really suited to each other. I can't bring myself to hate on Camilla, even after all this time, since it's very clear she's devoted to Charles, and she's faced a huge amount of hostility, braving all the nasty press she receives. She's not the only person who's made a fool of themselves over an ill-timed love (I know this).

She likes dirty jokes.

I wonder how Anne and Camilla get along. They both seem pragmatic and unsentimental people.

I remember Barbara Walters mentioning a few times over the years on The View that she is good friends with Camilla and Camilla has a "bawdy" sense of humor. Barbara would also allude to Diana's personality/stability issues.

Since I'm a rather thick person, I think you can view Charles and Camilla's relationship through Sondheims' 'A Little Night Music', particularly, 'Send in the Clowns.' My ex and I have been separated for a long time (his choice) and we both know it was a mistake, but we've had trouble trying to negotiate things. It gets difficult, with the financial complications. Two people in love shouldn't have to justify their choices. If the Brits have Charles, and want a republic, they're always able to vote for that. As an American, I don't have a say.

R320, From what I've read, Camilla and Anne don't get along, at all. Andrew Parker-Bowles had a heated love affair with Anne while he was still with Camilla.

Eugenie and Jack Brooksbank recently moved to the Ivy Cottage on the grounds of KP, and not into rooms at KP itself. It's small, two bedrooms I believe, and next door to Nottingham Cottage where the Sussexes are still said to live. There's no formal word the Gloucesters have vacated Apartment 1 and the Sussexes moved in (that's the large apartment next door to the Cambridges).

There are several of these cozy small cottages on the grounds, the Duke of Kent also lives in one.

r320 you would think that Camilla and Anne would be friends, but apparently not. There's the little niggling fact that Anne used to 'date' (aka sleep with) Andrew Parker-Bowles in the time prior to his finally marrying Camilla years ago. Supposedly Anne had it badly for him but like all the other women he ran around with, it wasn't reciprocated.

Also there's the other snafu a few years ago at court re order of precedence. Anne -a born Princess - was very unhappy at having official lower precedence than Camilla, who was an in-law and her brother's 2nd wife at that, even though she officially is Princess of Wales and by rule the 2nd ranking female after the Queen. After some working on the Queen on this, she changed the rules so that blood Princesses now have precedence over in-law ones, except when they are present with their royal husbands whereby the old rules apply.

Meaning, if Cam and Anne are at an event and Charles isn't present, Anne takes precedence over Cam. If he's there, the opposite is true; Cam takes precedence. Believe it that this stuff matters within the family.

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The Brooksbank bristols are out in full force in that pic, R325.

Obviously, Sparkle and Harry aren't going to remain in a two bedroom cottage for long...they have a baby coming which means they'll need more room and staff....

Sparkle needs a bigger kitchen to make her famous late night banana bread treats.

British royal wedding dresses throughout history.

R326 They are. At least they look well supported there, sort of. Usually they're hanging just above her knees.

After a quick scan, R296, I think Harry may have inherited the worse of BOTH parents. His mother was unstable and vindictive but what good will come of speaking ill of the dead and of the MOTHER of his children when he also bemoans that those relationships are not great? Where would Harry have learned to take responsibility for his actions and to not be ruled by impulsivity, emotions, and having the go to move of playing the biggest victim? Have so little respect for Charles. Such a messy family.

William and lived in the 2 bedroom cottage until George was a toddler, no?

According to the book, this is a description of Charles, from the perspective of his parents, but also descriptive of Harry, no?

He was too quick to anger, given to tantrums and driven by an almost revolutionary zeal to 'make his mark' with various initiatives and causes that they believed teetered dangerously on the brink of quackery.

Hey, in a fit of rage Charles once ripped the bathroom sink from the wall, so I wouldn't count him too passive.

Charles was also very jealous of Diana and how the crowds loved her. The problem with jealousy is that it is not recognized by the person feeling it as jealousy. They only feel it as resentment and rationalize that resentment. Jealousy is nasty stuff. It has doomed too many families, co-workers, friends, you name it.

I wonder if Harry will become jealous of Meg.

Has anyone heard where the next Invictus Games will be held?

^^^Ssshhhh.....I think they’re keeping it secret from HazBean.

One of those couples/swingers resorts in the Caribbean... then they can maul each other all day long.

If Harry inherited his mother's emotional instability--and there are signs he has--this marriage is doomed, doomed, doomed. I give it 2-3 years, and it won't even be that long before the fireworks start.

Which means Harry will be doing exactly what the spare is meant to be doing, making an ass of him/herself and making the heir look that much better by contrast.

Charles certainly sounds jealous of a dead person, as well as of his sons.

You cannot read his remarks and respect him more, he sounds like some guy in a Billy Joel song mumbling into his cups in self pity. He needs to give up the booze, they all get like that. Ugh.

More about the sink story please!

R339 Say it with me, This marriage is fucked.

"This marriage is fucked." Not necessarily. The one thing that they have on their side is maturity - well, on her side at least though Harry seems more grounded to me now than he ever has. He may have been the "party prince," but I do believe that there was a lonely, melancholic aspect to his character as well. I think that he seems like a man who would recognize and appreciate the good things coming into his life. He has a wife and now a baby on the way. Perhaps he will grow to absolutely love being a family man, finding that part of his life more sacred than the one he has always been taught is the most important of his existence - the Monarchy. As I stated, Meghan is a mature woman pushing forty at this point. Wish them well - it looks good on you.

R342, stop sugaring, you fucking Zuckerschnecke.

"Sugaring?" I'm not going to bother engaging you beyond a gentle reminder that you should learn to be happy and glad for other people, hoping for their best. It's that simple.

It was William who'd pout and have hissy fits not Harry.

R344, I am happy for William having got himself a rather decent wife, you fucking Zuckerschneckerl.

Proof please, R345. We have SEEN it in adult Harry and his friends and exes note it as well.

Her Majesty's Christmas message from 50 years ago is completely relevant today!

I have just bingewatched The Windsors and have been following the Dangling Tendrils threads here. I realise that DL is probably not at the top of the BRF's reading list, but the Hazbeans don't have to look too hard to see an onslaught of ridicule and contempt coming their way like lava pouring out of a volcano. You can't say they aren't affected by it. Harry looks sad and angry and MM overcompensates with her clinging and perma-smile. I can't help think MM had a much better life before she met PH and would have been happier had she never married into the BRF. With her tv show, celeb chef bf, and friends, she was queen of her world. Now she can't do right for doing wrong and is stuck with a very tedious royal job and living in a hostile unfamiliar environment. Nemesis follows hubris...

Good points, R349, had not thought of it that way.

R342 Yeah because what really mature people do is get married after knowing each other for 16 months, having spent maybe 10 weeks total in each other's company. Totes mature.

There is overuse of the "rather" in British royalty threads. Does anyone else find this affectation rather annoying?

Be that as it may, the Australian tour was a resounding success. The press and public loved both of them.

I don't have any strong feelings about them either way, but I must say as soon as Meghan comes up in a thread here, all the mean girls come out in force. It's not the usual DL humorous bitchiness: it's more like one of the Supernatural threads where it fills up with bickering fangirls.

R349, you make a lot of good points. She didn't really know what she was getting into and she's not trying to fit in, she's trying to bend it. It won't fly. She cannot grasp the difference between celebrity and monarchy. But I'm content to wait for the new YouGov poll on monarchy. It is issued regularly. We'll see how the groping and the bad clothes and big bills are playing.

From the DM, made me laugh:

>>The weeks leading up to the wedding had been far more tense for both Harry and Meghan than most people realised. In fact, they’d both felt so stressed that they’d booked a series of appointments with Ross Barr, known as ‘the acupuncturist to the stars’.

Nearly all stress induced emanating from her bonkers family.

Come on, R356.

[Quote]With her tv show, celeb chef bf, and friends, she was queen of her world

Not really, she had to keep all those plates spinning with a smile plastered on her face knowing that any minute it could all fall apart and she'd be just another semi-talented out-of-work 40ish actress.

Now, as bad as it gets with the infighting and the pissy rules and the press, not only is she is set for life (and she has a lot more self control than Fergie), she's near the top of the heap and will be famous for the rest of her life.

Exactly, R358.

But...but according to the Royal Family experts on DataLounge, she’s going to literally self-combust any second because she’s such an evil person.

Curious whether HazBean will go the celebrity route and sell the first photos of their baby.

[quote]she's near the top of the heap and will be famous for the rest of her life.

But the extreme boredom will end up consuming her.

She gonna run away with some Russian billionaire when she will have enough.

I like Harry better than William. William seems like a shit.

Andrew and Fergie sold pictures, why wouldn't Meg?

R365 - so did Princess Anne's son Peter and daughter Zara. They got a lot of flak for it.

Does Camilla dislike the Duchess of Sussex? Who else is on the outs? Discuss.

As a royal watcher, I'm so happy to see the giant shitshow that the Charles/Harry dynamic is turning into. They're both whiny bitches who made disastrous (first) marriages. Charles is whining that the sons of his despised first wife don't love him, and Harry will be doing the same thing once Meghan bolts and takes Baby Windsor back to California with her. These two will be good entertainment value for the next 20 years.

Since Princess Anne can spot bullshit from way off, and given her (Anne's) protective hovering around her mother at Ascot, I surmise that the Princess Royal has had Sparkle's number from the start and has no problem at all stepping in and stopping her when she chooses.

Given that Anne chose no titles for her children, I can't help but think that Anne's take on things holds a lot of power with the Queen and Prince Philip, who though retired from public life, still undoubtedly can be very vocal about the RF's behavior in private.

Sparkle's dress with the slit up to her ha-ha would have caused quite a response, I'm betting.

[quote] Meghan bolts and takes Baby Windsor back to California with her

Baby Windsor isn't going anywhere.

The grandchild of the (by then) King being taken away from the UK?

Not going to happen.

R370 Do you really think so?

If she wants to live in the US with her kid, she will. What the BRF is going to do? Send the army to take the child from his mother?

I believe that the Queen as Sovereign has legal guardianship of all the children in the direct line of succession. That includes all of Charles' children. and their children.

Good luck with that.

A US court would have to agree with this law to begin with and order her to bring back the child. It's not going to happen, specially if the child is not an heir or a spare.

Would a U.S, court have any jurisdiction over a full British citizen which the child would be? Presumably, by then Meghan will also have obtained British citizenship.

Pretty good article here regarding [BOLD] "The Grand Opinion for the Prerogative Concerning the Royal Family" [/BOLD].

Meghan is happily married to a very noble and dedicated man.

Their marriage will THRIVE.

Their children will be INTERNATIONAL royalty.

Catherine will be jealous.

R374 The child would live in the US, it's enough to apply the US law.

The child will probably have to reside in Britain for MOST of the year. She will be able to take it on trips to US and other countries but residency will be in Britain.

I shudder to think what the HazBean children will face with a narcissistic monster of a mother and whiny-ass bitch for a father. They'll look to their Cambridge cousins for the family they wish they had.

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Dutch dudes are famous for their sizemeat.

R380 - oh the stories he could tell about her. He should write a book to get back at her for sending her ring back in the mail.

Alas, he's married now to a woman who is well-off so he doesn't need the money. I hope this woman treats him better than Nutmeg did. Even her best friend turned against her for the callous way Meghan broke up with Trevor. She had the show Suits so he was no longer needed.

R376 - Yes, we can see it all now, the future Queen Consort of Great Britain and Ireland, whose son will be the matrimonial catch of his generation, will be "jealous" of the Sussex kids, who may not even have titles at all.

Meghan and Harry are the next generation Andy and Fergie, only their kids won't even have HRHs like Andy's and Fergie's do.

Yeah, Catherine will be pea green as she trails her ermine and furs out of the coronation at Westminster Abbey, with granny's chips sitting on her head, around her neck, and up her arms.

Yup - as Prince George steps up as the next Prince of Wales . . . the Sussex kids will be "international royalty".

Eurotrash, more like.

If the Harry/Meghan marriage dissolves before the Queen dies, the custody of Baby Windsor could be an interesting legal stew. Baby Windsor would be a great-grandchild and not within the first six heirs to the throne, so it's not clear if the Prerogative would apply. Or if the Windsors would even bother, since BW is pretty much a dynastic footnote even before he/she is born.

If the HazBean off-spring have two brain cells to rub together, they will aspire to be tomorrow's Sarah Chatto; dignified, modest, sweet, quiet and a beloved credit to the royal family as a whole.

With those two brainless famewhores as parents, not bloody likely.

Oh deah, must correct my own post: "Future Queen Consort of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland".

Apologies to any sons and daughters of Eire who may be reading these threads. I assure you it was simply fast typing, no offence meant!

R383

R386 Lady Sarah Chatto had her own dysfunctional grandiose narcissistic "rentals to contend with in Margaret and Tony. Fortunately, Auntie Lilibet was present and picked up a lot of the slack. Maybe Kate will do the same for Harry's kidlets?

How about having another baby, Kate? Don't let us down! Make sure Duke Dimwit and his spawn by his grifter wife will get shoved further down the line of succession.

I'd like to think so, R388, but by all accounts, both Margaret and Tony Armstrong-Jones were intelligent people, despite their other personality flaws. Native intelligence and family support can give you a certain grace, as it clearly gave Sarah Chatto. Unless Baby Windsor reaches way back in that family tree, I don't see him/her being intelligent.

Eurotrash indeed. None of the aristos want anything to do with Meghan and they won't want their kids consorting with hers, titles be damned.

R371 At least in Denmark it is impossible. The younger son of queen divorced and her ex stayed in Denmark because the children cannot move to abroad.

Any kids of Harry and Meghan will be raised and educated in Britain. Whether the parents are married or divorced. You can count on that.

A Paris Jackson springs to mind when I think of the future HazBean brood. Wayward, histrionic, distorted self-esteem, lack of focus drifting from one experimental lifestyle to another, modeling career, drug use, half-hearted suicide attempts, struggling singer career... it doesn't look good, poor things.

All the wives of the Danish princes (that would be three, Crown Princess Mary, and Joachim's first and second wives) had to sign agreements about the children belonging first to the Danish royal family in the event of a divorce, not the mother. As the children of Joachim and Alexandra were still minors at the time of their split in 2004, Alexandra stayed in Denmark. She also remarried another Dane, considerably younger than she, from whom she is now also divorced. But their two boys are quite a bit bigger now, and Queen Margrethe gave Alexandra a lesser title, as she forfeited her HRH when she divorced Joachim, I think Countess Something or Other. It was all very amicable and I doubt there were any issues about visitation and that sort of thing. Joachim's children, by the way, are not HRHs: they are simply Highnesses without the "Royal" in front - HHs.

Harry is pretty far down the line I don't know if anyone would have bothered drawing up such an agreement. I think with Charles and Diana there were extensive economic arrangements discussed, and probably ones dealing with potential issues of taking minor children out of the country in the event of divorce. But with Harry and Meghan - not sure.

Can we keep the endless Markle chat in the MANY Markle threads?

Seriously r396! Let's make this thread Markle-free.

Regarding William's temperament, I remember reading several years ago about an incident when he and Kate were visiting Los Angeles. The story was told by a DJ that was at this event (I recall that Reese Witherspoon was at event also) anyway, this DJ said Wills threw a hissy fit about something minor, was somewhat rude to Kate when she tried to intercede and then went and holed himself up in a tent and wouldn't come out, later Kate had to cajole, coax and sweet talk him to come back out and re-join event. As I recall, DJ was wondering why this wasn't widely reported in any gossip or tabloid sites but chalked it up to U.S. wanting to stay in QE's good graces.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out Wills is a spoiler prick. He's been told he's the special one since he was old enough to understand English. Add the weird relationship with his mother and difficult relationship with his father, and it's a recipe for dick ish neurosis.

It's pretty obvious that William has a dickish personality. You can see it in interviews, and I can only imagine what he must be like in private. I think after the Queen is gone, we'll be getting more stories that are less than flattering.

The tone of the last twenty or so posts reminds me that I'm actually a very nice person. Some of you people must have been raised by cave people. You're ugly.

Ah, moralizing from the perch of a squatty potty.

She doesn’t seem like the devil incarnate. But DL experts assure me, she’s only fawning over this kid for the free handbags.

So far I like Meghan. I know I'm in the minority. I'm supposed to see her for the cold scheming hussy she is, but I can't. I adore Harry and he is just smitten. Totally devoted, protective and for his sake I hope she is a decent person. She seems to be.

R404, you are hardly in the minority. She is already adored, worldwide, and people follow her every move.

That's hilarious R185

I don't "adore" Meghan. I just like her. So far.

So it is my understanding Andrew subsidizes his daughter's housing out of his budget, which what, comes from the Queen's purse? Is this also true of Anne's children who are also not working royals?

Anne's kids have careers and have incomes, although their mother supplements this. Zara in particular has done well on the equestrian circuit, and made money from endorsements and deals (yes equestrians do these too, just like other athletes). Peter has a decent income from his job. I believe they both have homes on their mother's estate.

Anne makes bank from leasing our her Gatcombe property for horse shows and other events. She has a couple of other income streams. As she does 100s of events per year for the Crown, I don't think it's an issue for her to draw an income from the Sovereign Grant.

Anne is also fairly frugal and lives what would be considered more of an upper-middle class lifestyle instead of a "wealthy" lifestyle. She's known for recycling her outfits.

An interesting thought exercise to imagine a scenario were Anne or Andrew or even Edward the next in line to ascend the throne instead of Charles. I would envision another abdication crisis if it was Andrew.

HM's personal income is from the Duchy of Lancaster, so any non-working royals will be subsidised from that and not from the Sovereign Grant.

Income from the Duchy of Lancaster is decidedly smaller than that from the Duchy of Cornwall. The latter has always been where the big money is. The income from Lancaster doesn't go directly to the monarch, but funds the privy purse (which has been replaced by the Sovereign Grant). The Queen funds many more people and staff than Charles does as well.

Has anyone ever suggested that all these people support themselves instead of relying on any kind of privy purse?

R413 The Sovereign Grant is in addition to the income from the Duchy of Lancaster, and replaced the Civil List, not the Privy Purse.

Which of “these people”, R414? Many of the people mentioned upthread support themselves through gainful employment and/or private trust funds. It’s a complete fallacy that all the members of the family who appear on the Buckingham Palace balcony during Trooping the Colour, for example, are supported by the state. Almost all of them aren’t.

But the optics aren’t great when the public who get their information from the Mail Online assume that they are, I’ll admit that. Which I’m sure is one of the reasons why the Prince of Wales pushed to limit the numbers on the balcony to Her Majesty and her heir apparent and his descendants and their wives.

Actually r414, the Queen currently pays a large amount of tax on the income generated by the Crown Estates, in return taking a smaller fixed payment from the government to fund herself and her family. There is a net gain for the tax pool supposedly in there - someone else with more knowledge can elaborate.

r415 the Lancaster monies are still relatively on the small side, only about 12 million pounds Sterling annually in recent years. Believe it or not that doesn't cover much, QEII still requires other monies for full funding.

Really, they could leave and would be much richer.

Duchy of Lancaster net income was £20Million last year, pretty much the same as the Duchy of Cornwall.

The Sovereign Grant is currently £76Million on top of that.

HM Queen is certainly not scratching for cash currently, especially since HM The Queen Mother died cutting her liabilities by around £7Million a year since 2002.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I don't think Charles has three years. I think he better become regent next year. I've been watching HM lately and she seems befuddled at times and is moving very slowly. it's to be expected. I think she is determined to keep a schedule and wants to keep serving and being busy, but she really can't handle too much. It is very obvious.

And Charles will need help from William and Catherine. I know. People are saying William is snobbish, etc. but IMO I believe William is privy to the fact that Granny is slowing down considerably and Charles is 70 so he is going to need William and Catherine to do more. The day is not far off when everyone will soon move up. I predict Harry and Meghan will have more to do than Andrew does.

Don't let's forget, Andrew was given responsibilities and he pissed that away. He proved himself incapable and unworthy. I think Harry believes very much in service and he will be more supportive of his father and his older brother. For someone who hated the entire notion of the life of a Royal, William seems to be embracing it more and more. He may not be doing as much ceremonial stuff, but he is attending meetings and serving on committees and seeing to the various Trusts and Foundations.

R78 I agree Kelly became "handsome" and "matronly" at quite a young age. Some of it is the addition of maybe just 10 lbs, but it unbalanced her face, and, in photographs at least, gave a matronly look to her jaw (or maybe it was alcohol). Some was changing fashion. 1950s fashion was perfect for Grace - structured and defined waist, defined bust, padded hips. After she married and fashions evolved to a softer silhouette, her figure wasn't defined. It was caftans, just a tied, unstructured waist - no definition and so even when slim she looked shapeless, and then for the hair she favored these enormous helmets.

It's funny to me, because IMO the structured 1950s styles did nothing for Jackie Kennedy, but the 1960s suited her, and she could even pull off capes and caftans. There are a number of pictures of Jackie and Grace together. Jackie looks relaxed, Grace looks fussy.

There is no evidence whatsoever Harry believes in service. There is plenty of evidence he believes in drugs, drinking, pissing off his responsibilities, and whining.

R421, Thanks. I've seen HM visibly slowing down in the past year, and it pretty much breaks my heart. Her secretary, Martin Charteris, once said, "she's strong as a yak". I didn't know if it was just the death of her last corgi, or if there was more going on. She's served her nation for an incredibly long time, and no one would ever be able to find fault in her service to her nation. I refuse to even venture any other theories. My own father died from dementia, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I know DL will hate me, but I actually sometimes pray for HM. Scoff all you like, but she's the only person who still survives from my childhood, and she's almost my substitute Grandma. One of my friends was texting me, and I mentioned that I respected HM more than almost any other person, and he was incredulous, but when I shared some stories with him, he finally got it.

You're a good and intelligent person, r424.

R424, IMO I think Philip failing and announcing his retirement has thrown her off a bit. She must miss him participating with her. I can't see the Queen ever allowing herself to be seen in a wheelchair, but at some point that will become inevitable. Philip must be working with physical therapists to stay mobile as much as possible. But honestly, everyone is different. With my own mother she was mentally very sharp and when she turned 90 it was as if someone had literally turn off the light switch. She went downhill fast and developed dementia. She dies two months before she turned 92. It's as if some invisible threshold is crossed and everything changes on a dime. Once people hit their 90's life is very unpredictable.

Has anyone else read the rumors that Philip has retired not only from his official duties but effectively from the family and is living in a smaller residence on one of the royal estates with his mistress?

Not trying to suggest this is true. I don't know. But I've read it on more than one gossip forum and Philip is now so far removed from press coverage and Her Majesty seems so different from her public ebullience earlier this year that I wonder what's going on in addition to the public activity of the younger royals.

My mother's doctor spoke to us (my siblings and I) after my mom was laid up due to a fall and was going to need physical therapy to recover. She was in her late 80s.

He explained that for elderly people they can appear to be fine physically, but in reality they are like someone walking along the peak of a roof. It doesn't take much to have them lose their balance. and fall off that peak. And once they fall off the peak, they never really recover to that state.

That is why if elderly people suffer a broken hip, for example, they frequently died within a short period. Like a cascade effect.

While we were dubious, as Mom had always been physically active, the doctor told us that this is what had happened to his own mother.

As for the Queen, I find it interesting that she deliberately has no more corgis, and it was said that the reason was that the dogs would gather around her feet and the situation became worrying due to concern about her falling.

I know she has the best of health care, but that can only take one so far.

Elizabeth and Philip are a pair of tough old birds. He's a far from perfect person, but seeing him up and walking into the church for Eugenie's wedding made me smile.

When those two go, there will be a terrible void.

I've heard the Philip likes to spend time out doors at Windsor or Sandringham. No mistresses. Talk of a mistress at this stage is absurd and the people who write and peddle such bullshit must laugh their asses off when they see such crap published.

R428, I read also that Her Majesty doesn't want to leave dogs orphaned when she passes.

It was reported last week that she had been keeping an older Corgi who just passed. He had belonged to one of HM's groundsmen or gardeners and after he passed HM took in the old dog. The articles reporting this said she still has two dorgies, dachshound/corgie mixes, of her own.

My favourite video of the DofE, 90+ years old, bounding up the stairs like someone half his age, and, in his usual don't give a fuck manner, expressing his displeasure at a slow, overly obsequious photog.

R430 Her Majesty will never “pass” - like most people of her class and generation she would have no time for such ridiculous euphemisms. She will, however, like you, me and her corgis, die.

It’s going to happen to all of us, better to face death than to cloak it in words like “pass”.

I read that Charles has over 100 people on his private staff. Presumably William will neither want nor need such a number. What will he do with the extra money? Seeing that HM and Charles are now old and frail, and frankly, Charles looks older and sicker than his mother, I am surprised they let Harry marry MM. Andrew and Edward were given relatively minor roles, but that was because Charles and HM were vigourous and active. Now PH will be needed to pick up the slack. And MM is polarising, to say the least. The BRF is on shakier ground than ever, and this can only escalate when Charles takes over, especially as he will have Camilla made queen. MM could really tip the whole thing over. Although she likely wouldn't do it, and clearly loves her current life, Zara would be perfect to take over royal duties. The public loves her. Edward's kids are very strange and un-charismatic looking.

Jesus said to one of the criminals being crucified next to him as he expressed the tiniest degree of faith "I tell you TRULY that this day you shall be with Me in paradise."

One benefit of the Regency is she can assure some kind of roles for her other children - probably the Wessexes more than York and no matter what Charles' plan for a slimmed down monarchy I don't see how he kicks Anne to the curb. If a regency lasted five or ten years it is hard for him to the banish them to obscurity. And with only William and Kate and dim Harry and See Thru take up the slack he's going to have to live with it or claw back the working presence of the monarchy - which is a big part of the point of it. He's not young himself.

Charles almost looks as old as his mother.

They peddle the rumor of a "slimmed down monarchy" to publicly justify kicking Andrew to the curb. Charles and Anne are close. He won't do anything to her. In fact, Anne can do pretty much what she wants and she is very much a traditionalist when it comes to acknowledging Charles as #1. She feels no competition, and she loves her life, so she presents no problem at all. Harry and William are close to Beatrice and Eugenie and will probably lobby for them where ever they can. I think Sophie Wessex is well liked, gets along with Anne, Charles and the Queen is very fond of her. Andrew was probably a bully to Edward and I don't think they're very close, but Edward will do what ever he must to stay on Charles' good side. Charles will try to be fair with them, but he and Andrew will not get on. Andrew will have a small official role to play for appearances sake, but once HM is dead, Andrew will fade into the background. He's earned it. Pig.

Charles doesn't seem to have much pep in his step. He moves slower than his father. he walks like someone who just shit their pants.

R421 I will give you that the Queen is moving much more slowly. I've noticed she walks with a stoop now and is clearly nervous on stairs, but she is not befuddled. I think I know the look you're referring to that makes her look confused (I've attached a picture) but she has had this look for decades, but it has become more pronounced as she has gotten older. I think it's a mix of her squinting and fatigue. Allegedly the Queen should be wearing her glasses at all times but she only wears them when reading, driving, or watching events that are at a great distance. Her grandmother, Queen Mary, had the same kind of eyes and also had the same look on her face in old age. I think the talk of dementia on this thread are off the mark. If the Queen had dementia we'd see much bigger hints of it (sudden changes in mood, losing focus during speeches or events). I think she's just old and her legendary energy is waning. She does look older than her mother did at the same age, but her overall health and mobility are better than the Queen Mum's was by the same age. The fact that she still walks unaided, goes riding on ponies regularly, continues to drive etc. at 92 is nothing short of amazing. Beyond decreased stamina in old age, another reason the Queen is moving much slower is that fact that allegedly she has arthritis and there has been talk that the Queen has been putting off knee replacement surgery.

I'm thinking that there is some credence to the idea that the Queen will semi-retire by the time she is 95, but I think it will fall short of a full regency unless her mental health suddenly declines. I think Charles will take on most of her public duties while the Queen will continue on with much of the paperwork that requires her signature. But the reality is we are now near the final stop of the second Elizabethan age and even as someone who is not the keenest monarchist, it's going to be a sad day when she's gone.

[quote]it's going to be a sad day when she's gone.

Truly. Also when the DofE goes. Both of them did their duties splendidly. They will be a very tough act to follow.

MM is not polarizing except in the minds of some DL posters who are oddly obsessed with her. She just had a pretty successful trip to Australia. If the most you can slam her for is her clothes, I’d say she’s doing fine. At least she’s not accused of being lazy like Kate, which is I think a much worse character trait.

[quote]Not a sugar but I’m sure I’ll be accused of being one

Sugar? Naw. You're a sucker for blatant PR and media spin.

R439 that's not the look I was referring to. I'm referring to a sort of vacant look and yes it could very well be fatigue. But My own mother, who lived into her 90's, eventually developed dementia and it started with just a bit of confusion and befuddled -ness. Sort of like losing your train of thought, or being inattentive, only a bit more pronounced. It would not be unusual at her age. I'm not suggesting the Queen suffers from dementia, but I am saying the early signs may be there along with the bad knees. It would not be at all unusual for her to be physically stronger even if she begins to get more mentally fatigued. I also think with older people sometimes the signs we believe might be early stages of dementia might very well be hearing loss. Elderly people are very reluctant to admit they are losing their hearing. The agility of both the Queen and Prince Philip is really impressive.

R443 It's a possibility. Who would be surprised if at 92 the Queen has some memory issues, but she may *look* confused but she certainly doesn't act like it. Given the Queen's public role if there was a noticeable issue with her memory it would be hard to hide it. It's more likely to be fatigue and mental drain, and perhaps even pure boredom with people talking about things she doesn't understand or care about. Hearing loss could be something too, it does run in the royal family. Prince Philip has had hearing aids since his late 70s and I've heard rumours that Prince Charles occasionally uses one. I'm not saying the Queen is in perfect health, but considering her age she's still in good shape and has a few years left in her yet.

People try to make something out of Harry and William having a rocky relationship with their father at times. Well considering that their parents had a very public, very acrimonious divorce, and details of infidelity, taped conversations, interviews, etc were all part of it, it's not something they'd get over at that age would they? Especially since they were the objects of a tug of war taking sides in the divorce. The image of Diana crying in the toilet with William sitting on the floor outside the door begging her to please stop crying, he would fix it, is indelibly etched in my memory. Then they're teenagers and mother and her boyfriend get killed in a car crash while on vacation. So IMO no matter how close they may have felt towards their father, t hey'd have an emotional reaction and bear scars. Then add to that they were teenagers. All teenagers go through shit. From about the age of 13, until they're about 25, they are a pain in the ass. My mother used to tell me and my brothers she wished she could send us away to some boarding school and then get us back when we were grown. I think Charles put up with a lot of angry outbursts, stubbornness and bad behavior for a few years. And then in their 20's they'd be asserting independence by being rude and contrarian. Typical really. I'm not making excuses, but I do believe it's much ado about nothing. I think Harry will always be closer because Harry is more emotional, more open with his neediness, and more forgiving. William is not as kind. But that's just my opinion.

R445 - and yet when Harry was a rude asshole to a polo player on the field, it was William who felt so bad and embarassed afterward that he apologized on his brother's behalf.

R427 Prince Phillip has mainly being living at Wood Farm on The Sandringham Estate since his retirement. Probably thinks that it would be ridiculous to open the main colossal house just for him. It's presumed that he goes to Windsor at weekends when HM Queen is there and Balmoral in summer.

^^First pic in the link is Sandringham House, Wood Farm is picture two. ^^

R447 Interesting, I assumed Philip was at Windsor! If the rumours are true and the Queen does plan on retiring in 3 years, I wonder where she'll make her base? Philip, if he's still around which I have a feeling he will be, will be 100 by this point. One of the great strengths of Elizabeth and Philip's marriage is that the Queen has always given Philip space to do whatever he wants to do. There is no doubt that they love each other and that the Queen gets a great deal of strength from him, but they've never been a clingy couple.

R417 - The income from the Duchy of Lancaster is separate from the Crown Estates, and from the Sovereign Grant. The Sovereign has no rights to the actual land and asset, only the income therefrom, which these days is about the same as those Charles is realising from the Duchy of Cornwall: 20 million quid a year. Charles, like his Mum, pays "voluntary" taxes to the Exchequer on those, but he sets those sums himself. With those revenues, he supplements the household incomes of William and Harry. It is left to HM to supplement the incomes of the rest of the family, both nonworking and working. Charles's income does not supplement the lives of his siblings, or his cousins the Kents, Gloucesters, etc.

I've read a rumor in more than one place that Philip has a girlfriend who visits him at Wood Farm, which is why he wanted the privacy of a separate residence. She's supposed to be a secretary or personal assistant. I don't know how much, if any, credence to give it.

The Queen is part of this generation which considers it's normal for a man to have mistresses.

I would not be surprised if Philip had 2 or 3 bastards.

I'm still on the fence about whether or not Philip has ever had an affair. There is no doubt he enjoys the company of smart and attractive [younger] women but for 71 years it has just been innuendo and gossip. One of the Queen's noted biographers Sarah Bradford who in her first book about Elizabeth was adamant Philip has screwed around. In 2011, Bradford retracted her claims admitting there were based on gossip: "I got it wrong over Prince Philip. I think he loves pretty women and he likes flirting but I’m not sure how important actual sex is to him, put it that way. And from that point of view, he and the Queen got on very well. The Queen represents a stability in his life that he lacked in childhood and despite their ups and downs, he knows he owes her a great deal. They have a very good relationship. It has always been one of mutual admiration and support. I don't believe he would ever intentionally do anything to humiliate or embarrass her.”

R453 - I don't believe we'll ever really know, but I do think he genuinely loves Elizabeth. I read a touching letter from him to a friend who urged him to "cherish Lilibet" shortly after their wedding - he replied that cherishing was something of an understatement, that Lilibet was the only thing that seem real to him. I was quite surprised (you'll find the excerpt from the letter in Sally Bedell Smith's biography of the Queen).

That doesn't mean he didn't fool around now and then, but there's never been any proof, and despite modern sensibilities on the issue, either way, I don't think there's any doubt that he loved her deeply.

R453 is the MARY!EST of MARY!S

So how long do we give MM and Harry? I suspect they'll last at least until the Queen is dead.

If Baby Sussex is born fat and healthy, the lid could blow off the thing anytime. Once she has his baby, he's stuck with her for life.

On a non-H/M note, I'd be surprised and oddly impressed if Phillip still had a mistress at his age.

According to Snowden's biography, he was still getting tail when he was confined to a wheelchair, so snow on the roof doesn't mean no fire in the cellar, & etc. & etc.

R457 Viagra can do wonders. Lets face it, Prince Philip was in pretty good physical shape up until about two years ago.

I have no doubt that Phillip cheated lots when he was younger: There is too much gossip to the effect, and it actually names names, such as actress Anna Massey, who was supposedly his long-term lover. I've also heard he had a couple of lovechildren with his childhood friend Helen Cordet (Max and Louise Boisot). I'm not surprised the biographers backed off--no telling what nasty legal action Bradford got threatened with, probably the same type of thing that had the producers of The Crown playing so coy with Phillip's sex life. But Phillip was a poonhound, no two ways about it.

What he is now, at his advanced age, is anyone's guess, but he got loads of pussy back in the day, and it wasn't all Lilibet's.

Below is Max Boisot, who became an architect and died a few years ago. I can see something of Phillip, potentially, in his bone structure.

Prince Andrew, the Duke of York WAS the most handsome of the Queen's four children. How did he go from this....

Below is Prince Phillip at about the same age as Boisot in the above picture.

...to this . Too much eating, lack of exercise or general debauchery? Discuss this sad case.

Andrew and Fergie.

Andrew and Fergie now.

All Windsors hit the wall at 25. Except Charles, who was somehow already born wall-adjacent.

Here's a young Edward, along with his current incarnation.

Oh Andrew, what happened to you?

Nothing trumps the beauty of young William. What the hell happened? It wasn't just his hair: His whole face changed.

Phil steals a rare public kiss from Lilibet at 05:10

I can't blame Phillip. It must be weird to be married to the woman on the money. That would give the hardest cock a bit of droop.

If Andrew dropped a few pounds, he'd regain a lot of his youthful looks.

Andrew is pushing 60. He would not.

Time really does hate the men in that family. Most people I know are at least 30 before their looks go.

IMO I think Andrew could improve. I don't think he is as far from his prime looks as the others. I agree, Charles is "wall adjacent" and honestly, Edward fell furthest of the three brothers. He was lovely and then he wasn't. But WIlliam. Now William is just a sad case. In his younger self he looked a lot like Diana. But now, as he ages he is more and more Windsor. Unfortunately.

I actually think Edward was the most attractive of the Queen's sons in his youth, and has aged the best.

Of all her children, Edward looks the most like the Queen. Anne is Phillip's female double and Charles is an unfortunate amalgamation of Elizabeth's and Phillip's most awkward features. As for Andrew . . . he's always looked like Lord Porchester to me.

Andrew in youth.

R460 - Considering that Anna Massey, daughter of legendary actor Raymond Massey, was one of the homeliest women ever to have a stage and screen career, I find it difficult to believe she was Philip's lover for either five minutes of five years. He notoriously had a sharp eye for a pretty face and a pretty figure, and Anna Massey had neither.

Google her and take a look at even the early photos in films like "Bunny Lake is Missing".

R476 - Are you trying to suggest what I believe you are trying to suggest about HM and Lord Portchester?

She doesn't look so bad to me.

Anyway, maybe she did anal.

Edward had a long neck and torso so I think Andrew beat him in the looks department.

Prince Philip as a boy.

R479, my sweet summer child, the rumors about Lilibet and her Horse Master (Porchie) have been around for decades. Even The Crown obliquely touched on it in Season 1.

It's the Teef. They have the teef.

R48 - That's about the best she ever looked. No matter how you slice it, I just don't see her as Philip's type.

Prince Anne as a baby.

^ Princess Anne (although she has more balls than any of her brothers). LOl.

R483 - Yes, I know, and everyone knows how devastated she was at Porchie's loss and all the rest of it. But she is, at heart, a deeply religious woman and kidding aside, never sexually looked at anyone but the DoE from the time she was 13 years old.

Andrew is Philip's child. He looks like Philips mother Princess Alice of Battenberg.

Massey sort of had a young Sissy Spacek vibe. No tearing beauty, but maybe she was a wildcat in bed and had a sparkling personality. Anyway, my point wasn't that Philip was fucking Anna Massey, but that he was fucking others who were not HM.

R489 - This Princess Alice (with Philip).

Yes, but this is a Royal Family gossip thread, R488. If you start a "The Queen Is a Deeply Religious Woman, Let's Show Some Respect" thread, I promise I won't post about Lilibet fucking her Horsemaster in it.

Andrew looking dapper.

If I knew how, I'd create a balloon with little Pss Anne saying, 'Don't fuck with me or you'll regret it.'

I'm sorry, I just don't see the Andrew hotness. Ever. He has a face like a ham.

Princess Alice

Prince Andrew

Oink Oink.

Also, can we get back to gossip? I honestly don't care if Andrew is hot or was hot or ever will be hot.

Andrew got those Battenberg genes.

Princess Anne looks like Louise of Battenberg (Queen of Sweden). Click for slideshow.

The scariest Windsor face is Lord Freddie Windsor. He looks like a Hanoverian zombie.

His sister Gabriella reminds me of Princess Anne.

The rumours about the Queen and Porchie have been around for ages but as other's have pointed out, Andrew looks a lot like Philip's parents. Also if Andrew weren't Philip's son, there is no way they would have named him Andrew after Philip's father. Some call Andrew Philip and Elizabeth's makeup baby, but in fact the Queen had always wanted a large family but her accession at an early age made the her put family expansion on hold while she got accustom to her new role.

I think it's often overlooked that both the Queen and Prince Philip are the type of people who are more comfortable developing friendships with the opposite sex. The Queen has always been far more comfortable in the presence of men and Philip with women. Outside of family connections, the Queen's dearest friends have all been men. She was particularly close to Porchie and Patrick Plunkett and was deeply saddened by their deaths. Plunkett (who is believed to have been gay) was probably her best non-royal friend. I've read in a couple autobiographies that during the 60s before security concerns became too great, Plunkett and the Queen would occasionally sneak out of the Palace and go see a movie or go to a cafe. The Queen would wear a headscarf and sunglasses to disguise herself. Porchie's and Plunkett's funerals are the only non-royal funerals she ever attended. Plunkett was buried at the royal cemetery at Frogmore in Windsor (the only commoner besides the Duchess of Windsor to buried there). The Queen also had a memorial created for Plunkett (attached) in Windsor Park which the Queen reportedly continues to visit regularly.

There have been rumors that Plunkett is Prince Edward's father, but I don't see any particular resemblance.

There used to be a caution among the aristocrats to 'never comment on who the younger children resemble.' Maybe Andrew and Edward are Philip's, maybe not. But if not, it certainly wouldn't be the first (or hundredth) time something like that has happened.

R504 Considering Patrick Plunkett was gay, I don't think he would have fathered Edward.

[QUOTE] Pss. Margaret is clearly the only real beauty.

Bullshit. She hit the wall hard in her thirties, Lord Snowden compared her to a Jewish manicurist. The people who rave over her beauty based on a talented photographer’s best work need to look again. She was very frauey looking, with a bulbous honker too.

As for Fergie, whoever said she’s a Duchess is giving misinformation. She is not. ‘Duchess of York’ functions as a surname now, she has no rank among either royal duchesses or peeress duchesses or even Continental duchesses. I do wonder if Andrew remarried her (doubtful, but shippers will always ship) if she would get the HRH back. There’s no precedent for a royal divorce/remarriage in The UK. You’d think she’d get the HRH automatically by courtesy, but I don’t believe anything anymore ever since Edward and Sophie became parents to a son and daughter styled as mere children of peers.

Andrew had about five minutes of being really good-looking, but the feral teeth ruined it. He looks like a descendant of Vlad the Impaler.

Gabriella Windsor is the next royal wedding on the docket. She's one of those fairly plain women who know how to make the most of what they have and disguise their essentially ordinary looks with exquisite presentation, backed by enough money to pull it off.

It will be interesting to see what Gabriella goes down the aisle in, and of course what her so beloved Mum, Pss. Michael, turns up in.

I'd love it if Pss. Michael wore breast plates and a winged helmet at the wedding to send a message to the undoubted corp of royal guests who will be present.

If Lady Louise (Edward's girl) is lucky, she'll look like Gabriella when she grows up. If she's unlucky, she'll look like Anne.

Princess Margaret was pretty in an ordinary way when she was very young and fresh-faced. She'd lost all that by the time she had her first baby.

R506 has it right. I've been meaning to pipe in with this, but I've restrained myself from doing so. Concerning beauty, there seems to be a special allowance for royals where beauty and handsomeness are concerned. It's as if they automatically get an extra 20 points on the beauty scale just for being royal. I'm sorry if this offends some, but to have heard Diana described as "the most beautiful woman in the world" all those years ago was ridiculous. Yes, I think that's it - they get an extra boost just for being royal.

Diana wasn't the most beautiful woman in the world, but at her peak she was beautiful. She always looked better in motion than in still photographs, because movement somehow added depth and balance to her rather uneven features (the nose really was a problem). However, her beauty started to go hard by her mid-30s, and if she'd lived, she wouldn't have been attractive for much longer. English roses always fade.

Margaret did get frauish fast. Here she is with baby Viscount Linley. It's not just the hair: She looks at least 10 years older than her real age at the time (31).

Diana was much prettier in motion, when you could see her sparkle and smile.

We will have to agree to disagree on Margaret - and Lord Snowden's remark reeks of bigotry, not least because he owed all his fame and fortune to marrying Margaret; his remark after the marriage went south was crude, cruel, and contemptible. It isn't as if A-J himself was another Gary Cooper.

I believe I mentioned that, like a good many English Roses, Margaret lost it early. But between 18-25, in my view, she was a beautiful young woman - and you forget that, as with her mother, sister, and grandmother, the photos of the day do not show off the exquisite complexion. You could look up Peter Townsend's impression of her "full mouth, large purple-blue eyes, and a complexion as soft as a peach".

Her face had both distinction and sensuality, with beautiful colouring enhanced by the legendary family skin.

De gustibus and all that, but I maintain that she was a lovely young Englishwoman of her day. That she lost it early is sadly true, but to say she never had it? Sorry, cannot agree.

Margaret was pretty when young, though IMO her nose and too-long face kept her from true beauty. But your mileage may vary.

R515 - The long nose is what gave her face distinction, in my view. She was never what they call "cookie cutter" pretty, I will say, but to some that is an advantage.

I certainly wouldn't put her in the category of some of the great beauties of the two previous eras, like Lady Diana Cooper or Edward VII's long time mistress, Alice Keppel. And she was, as I said, probably prettier in person because of the skin.

The more famous of Prince Phillip's affairs was with actress and singer Pat Kirkwood, the only footage of her from around the time seems to be this grainy video.

Full bio of Pat Kirkwood here,

(oddly I was born less than a mile away from her, though about 50 years later)

And Margaret was by ALL accounts a cunt. Not even a fun cunt like Princess Michael, she held everyone below her rank in contempt. It’s amazing she produced a likeable daughter like Lady Sarah Chatto.

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R520 - Absolutely, an improvement. Not a great beauty but at least pretty.

R519 - No one will argue that Margaret was a cunt, although she became much more of one after the Townsend debacle. She was an accomplished amateur pianist and alleged to be a very good mimic, like her mother, and could be riotously funny. Her father also spoilt her terribly, possibly to make up for her Only Second ranking.

It is interesting to wonder whether, had she had been allowed to marry Townsend without giving up her royal status, she might not have become quite the cunt she did.

But that she did, is undeniable. Just ask Liz Taylor.

Diana wasn't a great beauty, but she was a handsome woman and had an indefinable X factor that's still unmatched.

Margaret was thoroughly unlikable, with few redeeming qualities, however , there was a great deal of sexism in all the pearl-clutching over her affair with Roddy Llewellyn. Snowden cheated on her like crazy, that was somehow completely overlooked, at the time.

As far as Townsend, Margaret chose her title, allowance & family approval over him, it's that simple.

I suspect Townsend would, like Armstrong-Jones, eventually leave her notes that said “20 reasons why I hate you!”

I have heard that Princess Margaret was supposedly talented musically, but it's impossible to tell how true that was.

If she got up to sing and play for her friends, of course they would applaud wildly and tell her she was wonderful.

I seem to remember a story where she was performing at a party and someone (a genuinely talented person) started to Boo. Margaret stopped and ran from the room.

address her subjects' issues. We hear about the international stories, but I think most of her 'work' confines itself to the confines of her own Kingdom.

Philip, on the other hand, is a polymath. He's boundlessly curious. He's variously been known to take an interest in Jung's theories, to subscribe to some UFO magazine, to visit the various kitchens to discuss recipes with the staff. HM doesn't much care about that: she often pours her own breakfast cereal from a Tupperware container. Both the Queen and Philip seem to have no qualms having friendships with members of the opposite sex who share their interests. The Queen cares about horses and dogs, and is happy to be in the company of horsemen. Philip enjoys pretty woman, but really likes to engage with interesting people.

It was mentioned a couple of times upthread that the Queen needs knee surgery. That's entirely possible, and I'm not attempting to disagree with anyone. But I thought she had already had knee surgery. This photo is from Hello Magazine, and it's one of the very rare times the Queen has been photographed wearing pants.

[quote]Possibly the only time we've seen the Queen wear a trouser suit. She looked smart in the grey two-piece when leaving hospital in 2003. Her Majesty had an injured knee and was possibly dressing to cover it.

My apologies. The first whole part of my post above was cut off. Here it is:

Well, I've been sitting back, reading and trying to get caught up with this thread.

So....about Prince Philip's supposed infidelities, I sort of doubt we'll ever know. You can't really prove a negative. But I think it's rather telling that, when Kitty Kelley spent time in the UK, digging up as much gossip on the Royal Family as possible, she ended up not writing anything about his cheating. And she's the biographer who published (in the US) the story about Nancy Reagan being the blow-job queen of Hollywood.

HM and Philip are very different people. I don't think the Queen has a great deal of intellectual curiosity. For many years, her life has consisted of those red boxes, trying to deal with the mundane issues of state. Signing documents, writing to ministers, and trying to delegate local authorities to address her subjects' issues. We hear about the international stories, but I think most of her 'work' confines itself to the confines of her own Kingdom.

^^^Trousers and no hat. So strange.

[quote] I have heard that Princess Margaret was supposedly talented musically, but it's impossible to tell how true that was.

She was "talented musically" much the same way President Truman's daughter, Margaret was. She tried to have a professional career as a classical singer until a Washington music critic finally wrote an honest review of one of her recitals and got on the President's shitlist. It was a big story back in the day.

Except no one ever commented publicly about Princess Margaret's "talent".

I don't know, but I think this is R525's story. I don't think most people will run into a paywall, unless you visit Vanity Fair regularly.

[quote]“One night, at a ball given by the celebrated hostess, Lady Rothermere, the Princess ‘grabbed the microphone from the startled leader of the band, whom she instructed to play songs by Cole Porter,’” wrote Aronson in Princess Margaret. “Obediently, all the guests stopped dancing and stood listening to the Princess’s performance. As they ‘shouted and roared for more’ she became, says Lady Caroline Blackwood, who was watching, ‘a little manic,’ with her swaying, full-skirted ball gown proving quite unsuitable for her ‘slinky’ gyrations.”

[quote]“She had just launched into ‘Let’s Do It’ when, from the back of the crowded ballroom, came loud sounds of booing and barracking. The rest of the place fell silent. Mortified by this unprecedented show of hostility, the Princess abandoned the microphone and hurried out of the room.”

[quote]“The culprit was the painter Francis Bacon, blind drunk as usual. ‘Her singing really was too awful,’ he afterwards said. ‘Someone had to stop her.’”

Everything I've read about Princess Margaret indicates that she was a thorough-going bitch. But this story actually leaves me feeling sorry for her. We've read about all these courtiers who she treated terribly, yet the fact is, they continued to attend to her, and indulge her, instead of just calling her a bitch, and walking out. I posted not too long ago, on some other thread (I can't remember which one) about being treated horribly for being some low-class hick, with no formal education. Yet, facing humiliation, I simply got up, and left, instead of allowing myself to be demeaned. More people needed to do that to her.

Thanks, R531, that sounds like the story I read.

Of course there is the famous story about Princess Margaret visiting Hollywood and being at a party full of celebrities.

Later got her plan to return to the US turned down on the advice of the British Ambassador to the US.

Here's the famous Judy Garland story. Also one about Grace Kelly.

[quote] Judy Garland took exception to a message given to her at a party in Beverly Hills. An aide told Ms Garland that the Princess would like to hear her sing and the actress reportedly called her a "nasty, rude little princess", and said: "Tell her I'll sing if she christens a ship first."

[quote] Grace Kelly objected to the Princess's comment: "You don't look like a movie star." The actress is said to have replied: "Well, I wasn't born a movie star."

I think Harry is a complete jerk and he LOVES to play to the crowd, a/k/a fans. I don't see him having a real instinct with children as William does. William treats them with total respect. There was a kid at William's recent outing who kept shaking his hand and William let him do it and knew exactly how to handle the moment that kept the kid in on the joke and made everyone feel good. He was completely comfortable, as was Kate. Harry does the exact same thing - pull faces, and that's it. He also knocked the heads of those two boys together and was oblivious to the fact that it hurt. If you don't see a guy hustling for attention and PR nothing will make it obvious.

There is a reason that Harry, the supposed war hero devoted to the vets, the supposed warmer one, could not find a fucking wife until he shopped in the remainder bid. Women with other options took a pass.

I suspect Harry has real problems that were only glimpsed in Vegas - problems of personality, brains, disposition - and the BRF has covered up ever since. Who he ended up with as a wife exposed him though.

R523, I actually read that all Margaret would have lost if she'd married Townsend was her place in line to the throne. Her sister wanted her to be happy. Her title, allowance, and place in the family she would have kept. But the Townsend romance was clearly not the star-crossed thing it was made out to be, and when push came to shove she decided she didn't love him enough. They didn't see enough of each other and she herself said it sort of died on the vine. That's not a love you'll give up status for, but I also think she enjoyed having that sort of romance story around her.

We shall see how this develops, but there are two anons over on tumblr who say that far from Harry and William splitting into separate "courts", Harry and Meghan are demoted to the same umbrella that handles Anne, Andrew, etc. and he and Meghan will have a significantly reduced budget, neither will anymore have access to the spacious offices at KP, and as things develop we'll see they are significantly reduced. Prince William has finally cut the cord on his brother. Harry and William, to my surprise, were apparently not answerable to anyone in the general sense, and now Harry will be answerable to Prince Charles.

I don't know how anyone with eyes can not see that the tour was a debacle. Despite the media's best efforts, wide shots showed they barely pulled a crowd. Meghan could not have been ruder and Harry wasn't much better. The PDA flaunting was not awful in and of itself, what was was that it was posing, it was attention grabbing intentionally, it was image-mongering and rebellious, and intended to create a narrative, one that distracted from the purpose of their visits. Her stunt in the market was insulting. Her publicizing that she insisted leftover cake be given to "the children" after flaunting her supposed hundred plus thousand pound wardrobe, many pieces of which were exactly like each other, was hubris in the extreme. And let's not get into the baby belly cradling. That is not natural, that is posing, that is trying to create editorial images of a Madonna. They were too calculated, and apparently, terribly rude, as in their wake people who had crossed paths with them took to social media.

I think Harry is chronically allergic to responsibility, refuses to step up and own his decisions, and when things backfire he blames others.

If true, that probably means they can say goodbye to that big apartment at Kensington Palace.

The Gloucesters can stay put.

And the Cambridge family can heave a sigh of relief about having new neighbors.

Phillip didn't have an affair with Pat Kirkwood, and she was pissed about it her entire life. Her correspondence has been published, and over the years she would write to Phillip asking him to do more to set the record straight.

The royal courtiers treated Phillip like a nonentity early in their marriage and he would rebel by making it worse for them. One of these occasions was an evening, where, when Queen Elizabeth was home and eight months pregnant (or perhaps it was still Princess Elizabeth) he spent conspicuously painting the town red with Pat Kirkwood and her boyfriend, making an especial point of dancing with her near a table full of journalist types. Phillip's aide de camp was also with them. Phillip was making a point. I think the fact that Elizabeth was pregnant increased his glee at making the journalist's furious, almost parodying his bad boy image. And I think Elizabeth understood this perfectly well.

^R538 here, to clarify, Pat Kirkwood was pissed at the stories that they'd had an affair, and she wanted Phillip to do more to shut down the story that they had. But the BRF is all never complain, never explain, and she felt that it was unfair as the story was more a pain in the ass to her than it was to him. She said he should have been home that night with his pregnant wife instead of enjoying himself in London deliberately scandalizing reporters.

If Margaret played or sang, even until 3:00 am, the entire assembled party was expected to listen and not leave. Grade A coddled cunt, yet people feared the supposed social suicide if they disrespected her.

Famous story: Margaret was visiting someplace and her staff gave the chef advance instructions on what the princess would eat. Supposedly it was dozens of faxes with revisions much to the aggravation of the chef. He had everything set and ready according to her strict instructions but when she arrived she said she only wanted an orange cut into segments. He got so mad that he unzipped and whipped out his dick, and rubbed it all over the sliced orange segments and served it to her with glee.

I hope if the Queen is to retire it is by passing on a lot of the work, but not disappearing, so long as she is still healthy. Prince Philip's absence from so many things is noticeable. If she retires I hope she retains the Christmas message and appears at the Trooping of the Colour, which is her official birthday. And Remembrance Sunday... so long as she is able but I would hate that she would retire into complete obscurity.

R531 The only thing that disappoints me about 'the heckler' is that it was Francis Bacon who was a boorish addled old drunk.

If Maria Callas had been singing the disgusting attention-seeking old lush would probably have behaved in the same way, he was an odious little fucker.

R536 I think you’re being unfair to Harry. Just with Invictus games, he’s done something that’s more high profile than just about anything the other Royals have done, especially William. And don’t tell me it wasn’t really him, he had help, and it wasn’t his original idea. No doubt he did but he’s the face of it, and the driving force. He should rightfully get the credit for making the games as stellar as they are.

R543 the Prince’s Trust started by Charles is a charity for helping disadvantaged young people with education and employment. The Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme gets young people involved in outdoor activities, charity work etc., both of them very active throughout the Commonwealth. Harry’s efforts have a LONG way to go before he can be considered anything more than a dilettante. Just because the US has heard more about Invictus than Prince’s Trust is meaningless.

I think the games were his idea. He got a lot of professional help at every turn to make it a reality. But this is his baby. Harry has two things he cares about. Sentembale his Children's school and project in Africa, and the Invictus Games. Those are singularly his. I think it's good he has those because William is the Heir. he will be walking in Charles shadow doing things with conservation, environment, etc and the regular charity stuff. I think in order to have balance and for the boys to remain close they have to have their own separate niche. All the anticipated separation and conflict stuff is not necessarily going to happen in a way the tabloids would love to see it. I think they are being thoughtful and they have a strategy and a plan mapped out. There are separate areas of interest and responsibility and they are going to make things more coherent. I think that will be one of the big changes in the Monarchy once Charles is King. Everyone will have things to do that make sense.

I want to also add that this is where the lesser Royals come in. The random miscellaneous ribbon cuttings and county fairs and so forth. I bet Will and Harry will lobby to get Eugenie and Beatrice more involved if they want to be.

[QUOTE] if they want to be

Is the Pope Catholic???

They will probably involve The York girls after the older generation die/retire anyhow.

They'll be a bit understaffed after The Duke/Dutchess of Gloucester/Kent, Prince/Princes Michael, Princess Alexandra & Anne and Prince Eddie & Andy die. Pretty much back to the 1952 situation.

They just don't need them now.

Is he really invested in these projects or were they merely tools for his image rehabilitation, r543? Since Meghan came into the picture, his commitment to the IG has been questioned. He barely even put in face time for these latest games and was reported to be largely absent behind the scenes.

I think this period is time for the Royals to introduce Meghan their newest working member. But once things settle down, She and Harry will not always be joined at the hip. If you notice Catherine and William are doing more and more engagements separately now where, in the beginning they were always together. Catherine feels more confident and she is more mature. Harry will be able to devote the time and commitment without distraction. Right now he is way too completely absorbed with his new wife. Hopefully that will calm down soon.

An item for which I have some personal knowledge... Starting around 2007 for a few years there the U.S. military, in particular the army, was flush with money thrown at them by congress. Initiatives were set in place to support military families (remember this was a time it was not unusual for soldiers to serve 3 or 4 tours consecutively down range) and troops returning wounded; hence, the Wounded Warrior Program. The Warrior Games began in 2010 and are held annually but it's scope today has considerably diminished. Prince Harry who was serving active-duty in the British Army was invited to open the games in 2013, partly because Canadian forces and British forces were the bulk of the foreign allies serving side-by-side with the Americans. His participation is where Harry got the idea. Funding in the U.S. waned as the wars took a toll on monies (hey, it gets damned expensive replacing all those bullets and munitions and maintenance) and the program floundered. But Harry ran with the idea and became the public face of a concerted effort to evolve the program into a more international event and the result was the Invictus Games. It's said that although Harry still likes the program his active involvement has significantly declined. He promotes its function but that more or less the extent of his engagement anymore.

I fully expect Megain and her mulatto offspring to die in childbirth

Convenient way for the royal family to say they were open to biracial members but it didn’t work out

Why are you so hateful? That is a terrible thing to say! What is wrong with you that you would think that i ok?

R553 welcome to the MeAgain haters. They’re not racist! They tell you so the themselves while uing the word mulatto...

R526 The Queen had torn cartilage removed from both knees in the early 2000, but there have been rumours for about a year that her doctors want her to undergo knee replacement surgery on one or both knees. Allegedly they leave her in a great deal of pain and are part of the reason for her slow and stiff walk these days. Also people were talking about the expression on her face or around her eyes making her look confused, I think she's been having trouble with her vision for some time. Earlier this year she had a cataract removed and numerous times in the past couple of years she appeared in public with severely blood shot eyes, likely from burst blood vessels.

R512 In that photo, Princess Margret looks a lot like Claire Foy who played the Queen in The Crown.

R548 You've lumped in Anne, Andrew and Edward with relatives of the previous generation. The Kents and Gloucesters are in their 70s and 80s and either doing very little or have actually retired from public life. Anne is 68 but she doesn't seem like she's slowing down at all; she's the Royal with the most engagements. And, Andrew and Edward are 58 and 54....they have 20+ years of service ahead of them.

I think it is probably likely that eventually the York girls will start doing more BRF engagements. They need second stringers for all the ribbon cuttings and fete visits; they don't waste the A team (Charles/Camilla, Wills/Kate) on those. Anne/Andrew/Edward get the next level of gigs and they'll need fresh meat for the small stuff after the Kents/Gloucesters are totally out of the picture. Anne's kids don't have titles and mostly have their own lives and Edward's kids are still too young. That leaves the York girls to hold down the fort until the little Cambridges and future Sussexs are big enough to do events which won't be for 20+ years.

I'm another person who thinks that the York girls (women) need to start doing official engagements.I've already admitted, here on DL, to feeling rather ashamed for how cruelly I've mocked them. Yet, I've also said that Charles needs to add them back, and give them some royal duties.

Beatrice and Eugenie are both Princesses of the Blood. They really have proven themselves, many times, as Royals.

I've come to like Beatrice and Eugenie. I think a silly romp with either one of them would be a pretty fabulous experience. I think they're adorable.

About Pat Kirkwood and Prince Philip, I don't believe anything happened. As others have mentioned, the rumours were a source of irritation for Kirkwood over the years. After she died in 2007, some of her correspondence with Philip was published and it's clear that several times over the years she tried to get him to forcefully deny it. I think that first the Royals (particularly of the Queen's generation) live by the motto of "never explain" and likely felt that by issuing a denial would actually increase rumours rather than slow them down.

In Gyles Brandreth's 2006 book Philip and Elizabeth, in which he had access to Philip and a numerous friends, family, and staff of the couple, Brandreth states that while there is no shortage of rumours and innuendo, he could never find any evidence of infidelity. Philip also once told a reporter jokingly that maybe he should have an affair so he could live up to rumours. Philip is more intellectual than the Queen and he like being in the company of attractive and intelligent women. I think the Queen, being super pragmatic, recognizes her intellectual shortcomings and allows Philip to go off and do his own thing.

Sarah Ferguson always hanging around trying to get attention is what stops the girls from getting more gigs.

Charles and Camilla have arrived in Gambia.

Why does Camilla's hair always look like crap? Surely she has access to the best stylists. But it always looks like she plopped a haystack on her head.

Charles looks like he's going to succumb to an apoplectic fit at any moment. That perpetually red face can't be a sign of longevity.

Camilla's camel toe. Unfortunate.

Good Lord, R563. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out.

That is some EPIC cameltoe. Why is she such a friggin' mess all the time? Some queen she'll be.

THIS is a queen:

This is also a queen:

George ftw.

Unless he becomes a spoilt, sulky brat like his uncle Harry.

Being the sulky do-nothing is Louis' job, as the second son and dynastic afterthought.

Charlotte clearly has balls like her Auntie Anne and charisma like her Auntie Margaret, so she'll do just fine.

Georgie has great hair. I hope he keeps it.

I really like that red tinge in George's hair. If I had a son, I'd love him to have such a lovely, slightly reddish mop of hair.

You can't kill the Spencer ginger with a meat axe. Even those rampaging Windsor genes can't destroy it.

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I never noticed this before, but Wee George looks a bit like his great-great-grandfather, George VI, did as a child.

He is good looking r571. Let's hope the Middleton genes outlast the Windsor ones.

George will be the most British monarch to sit on the throne since Elizabeth I, so the continued dilution of all those pop-eyed Hanover genes will probably help his looks quite a bit. What's more, his Spencer heritage mean's he's also a direct descendant of Charles II and James II, albeit through illegitimate lines. I find it amusing that the Stuarts have finally managed to sneak back into the line of succession: It just took them 300 years.

Let's not forget how good William looked back in his prime. Then, some day, his good looks started to disintegrate.

William hit the wall when he was still in his 20s. Those horse-faced Windsor genes will not be denied!

Maybe Charlotte sucked up all the Windsor genes for herself, in her quest to become the living clone of QEII.

It might be all that saves her brothers.

[quote]Maybe Charlotte sucked up all the Windsor genes for herself, in her quest to become the living clone of QEII.

That is actually one of the most enjoyable, amusing lines I have read on this site in a while! Truth is I thought Charlotte was all Carol Middleton at first, but the morph is definitely on.

Charlotte looks a lot like the Queen.

R574 the Windsor / Hanover claim to the throne is via the Stuart line, they are direct descendents. Sophia of Hanover was granddaughter of James VI & I and it was through her that George I got the throne. Sophia died about 6 weeks before she would’ve inherited the throne from Queen Anne so the claim went to her son. The Stuarts have been there for centuries. They’re more Scottish than German.

Queen Anne was a total lez.

I find it amusing that Princess Michael, the daughter of a Nazi, now has a daughter-in-law who is the daughter of a Jew.

Let me just say: for ALL of you irrational haters, you are henceforth known as, " Sardines". The Sugars, have nothing to worry about from you SALTY BITCHES! You 'girls' and GIRLS are embarrassing yourselves over a Gen X , C-List, Social Climber Extroidinare! You bitches need to LEVEL UP, TAKE NOTE AND PRE-ORDER THE HANDBOOK! Don't get mad, LEVEL UP!!!!!!

Is R583 the same troll who tried to make "saccharine" happen?

R583 missed their meds this morning.

The Invictus games were not Harry's idea. There was a need to get something for Harry to put his stamp on, and this was the scheme. It was a complete copy of the warrier games. They'd spent a great deal of time telling us that while Harry had been a complete washout at school, he turned out to be a helicopter genius, who would have thought. Of course the entire point is to credit Harry. Nobody announces something like the Invictus games and then declares, "The staff and councilors at KP, and after consultation with BP and CP, have come up with something for Prince Harry to do! Out of a number of ideas, we settled upon this as it's such a good fit - all action and not a lot of studying up or becoming informed on things! And it's the military tie in which has been a smash for him!"

No, even with other royals, these things are batted about and researched and discussed until the project is settled. And yes on occasion I imagine some of the more sentient royals might bring an idea to the team. But Harry? No. Harry didn't WANT something to do.

Now now R584, the troll was very proud of sacchrine, you could tell.

Meghan does have paid PR trolls. I wonder if one of them has tired of pushing back in the usual places - message boards and comments sections - and has decided to plant themselves here and have it all to themselves as a way to earn their 10.00/hour.

R586 Thank you for reminding people that Harry and KP "borrowed" heavily from the Warrior Games.

R583, I'm going to be polite, but I want to remind you that there's an Meghan Markle here. This thread is a place to discuss the other British Royals, and there have been plenty of informative posts here about them.

Oh, God, this freak again... yes, you're a hall monitor. Jesus.

Meghan Markle

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That shit Burrell is whining about again has long since been debunked. It’s well known that the senior BRF don’t complain to the media about misrepresentation nor do they sue. Burrell has been getting by on peddling these same old tired stories for years, living off old gossip about the ex husband of a woman who died over 20 years ago because he knows they don’t sue. Sad and pathetic as it is it’s still bullshit. Other staffers have discredited Burrell’s tittle tattle.

R593, Thanks. I remember that Charles was asked if he had his own toilet seat (which was also reported in the article) when he was interviewed in Australia, and he referred to the rumor as 'crap', which was a wee bit scandalous for a Royal to say on TV. It's very easy to write unflattering stories about the Royals, knowing that they usually won't respond (nor should they).

Charles is 70; he may well have arthritis and could use some help with his shoelaces. The toothpaste thing was when he broke his arm. But I have read he does bring his own white leather toilet seat,, although that is rather implausible. I mean, does he travel with a royal plumber to install it wherever he stays?

Part 3 is up, have at it bitches. Some great stuff being posted!

R595, Here's the story.

Watched some of those RF videos on Youtube.

One contained footage of the Queen & Prince Philip visiting Colonial Williamsburg. Showed all the behind the scenes getting ready at the hotel where they would be staying.

Showed the housekeeping staff preparing the room.

Brand new sheets and towels, washed 5 times.

Also, a brand new toilet seat, because as the housekeeper said, after all, it IS the Queen.

Wills is a total Spencer, looks like his Uncle Charles, Earl Spencer

Ginger, except for his hair, is a total Windsor-Mountbatten

Bajour!