British Royal Family Part 3: general gossip and information

No snuffling of dorgies? No toothpaste measuring training for valets underway? So quiet here.

Prince Charles is so uninspiring as a monarch -- he just shouts self-importance and privilege. He should take a look at why Wills, Kate, and Harry (not to mention his mother) are so popular and try to emulate them.

The British Royal Family should fly out to LA to be a part of the HGTV/ Brady House reboot. Princess Michael in Alice's blue uniform with the blackamoor brooch walking grandly down the staircase......Her Majesty the Queen feeding corgis and dorgis in the back yard......Prince Andrew as Sam the Butcher.......Beatrice and Eugenie both wearing fascinators at the sliding glass door screaming "Oh my nose!" and giggling......the Duchess of Sussex wearing an afro wig and sunglasses and pouting "Marcia Marcia Marcia!" The Duchess of Cambridge twirling her locks with her finger and explaining that "Something suddenly came up" and she has to wash her hair. The Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal fighting for the attic bedroom.

Invited (with thousands of others) to the Holyrood Palace garden party several years ago - not a royalist but it was a paid day off work with expenses. Our department attendees were asked, with others, if we would like to meet the Queen and Prince Philip and we were extracted from the crowd to bow, curtsy and make small talk. The Queen (prompted by staffer) was knowledgeable, chatty and very patient as we stumbled to answer and talked over each other. She was pocket sized tiny and perfectly groomed. Prince Philip,in an unfeasibly tall top hat, was smiling, charming and perceptibly taken by the laydees in our group. I was smitten. They then sat in a private marquee, facing the crowd and sipping tea, while we stuffed ourselves from tables heaving with world class sandwiches, cakes and little pots of ice cream. They will be impossible to follow.

R4, thanks for sharing. I've seen footage such as you've provided and I I often wondered how these things proceed. There are so many people and the Royals seem like they are on display and trying to make the best of standing there chatting with a bunch of strangers. But you made it personal and I think meeting the Queen and PP in such a setting, even getting to make a bit of small talk instead of standing at some rope line to gawk, is an excellent way to do things.

The Queen is a pro, R4! What a nice memory.

[Quote] the Windsor / Hanover claim to the throne is via the Stuart line, they are direct descendents. Sophia of Hanover was granddaughter of James VI & I and it was through her that George I got the throne. Sophia died about 6 weeks before she would’ve inherited the throne from Queen Anne so the claim went to her son. The Stuarts have been there for centuries. They’re more Scottish than German.

True, true. I suppose what I was thinking about was the fact that Charles II and James II had no direct heir that took claim to the throne: Charles because his only children were illegitimate, and James II due to the Warming Pan Plot which disinherited his legitimate son. But they both fathered bastards who contributed to Diana's gene pool. So, 300 years later, both Charles and James have a direct descendant on the throne. This is different from having one of their relatives through their grandfather inherit the throne.

New Vanity Fair puff piece on Charles.

They are really working overtime to rehabilitate Camilla.

Chuck should give up, he will never be popular.

He gonna be the next and perhaps last King but he will never be as popular as Bettie or Will and Harry.

Both pros, r6. We had been advised that we were on the Queen's list but that we could be 'bumped' due to time constraints. It was a gruelling wait, in the heat. We were way at the far end of a roped off grassy area and could barely see her in the midst of her entourage as she dipped her way round. We were level with their marquee and it looked as if we had lucked out but suddenly there she was and joy, Philip's group caught up and overlapped as they both made us their final stop. In their presence, surrounded by both sets of attendants we became simpering, manically grinning, nodding donkey idiots. They could so easily have dropped us but they kept going in the heat; smiling and engaging, making everyone feel special. Above and beyond expectations. Can't see any of the next batch making a fraction of the effort when it's their turn.

Princess Michael needs her own reality show.

R4, were there any other Royals wandering around? I always had the impression that if someone didn't actually get to see the queen up close they might at least see Charles or Anne or one of the others.

Just the Queen and Prince Philip at the garden party I attended, r12, but I believe Prince William etc have been involved in others. These are fairly arduous events which unlike say the Braemar Highland Games don't offer a cosy seat and entertainment. Can't see them hosting next year's commitments without more support.

R8 - on the Vanity Fair cover, no less. Click for photos of Charles and Camilla.

Camilla and Charles in Gambia.

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A commenter had a fantastic description of Wallis's appearance -- "a face like a half-chewed caramel" That is DL caliber.

What's going on with Charles' face? Does he drink too much? Does he stay out in the sun too long? Does he have high blood pressure? He has red hands too.

It's bad blood circulation.

I think Charles likes to tipple quite a bit, and he has high BP poor circulation a poor diet, and he is out in the sun too much. People claim he is as healthy as a horse and very strong but I don't think so. Of course he could just be ruddy.

He won't survive his mother for long, William better be ready.

What are Harry and Wills like?

R4 That's a lovely story. I've never met the Queen but I stood no more than a foot away from her during her visit to Canada in 2010. She and Philip were staying at the Royal York in Toronto while they were visiting the city. It just so happened that my husband and I were visiting Toronto that week and staying at the Royal York as well. One afternoon we were sitting in the lobby when there was a sudden commotion and in walks the Queen and Prince Philip back from a round of engagements. She stopped right in front of us and turned to what I'm assuming was the manager of the hotel and said something like "it's uncomfortably hot outside today, isn't it?" I was struck at how tiny she was, not just in height but also in build. I think the photos make her look more matronly than she actually is and I'm guessing she was 5'3 max. Also remember that she was wearing a light lavender scented perfume and wearing a really deep shade of blue. Philip was taller, very thin, and spry and he stopped to chat to a number of people in the lobby.

I think Charles may have some circulation issues, but if you look at old color photos, he has always been really ruddy.

R22 Both spoiled and entitled.

Harry is dumb and goofy.

William is more clever and he seems to finally accept his role knowing Granny will die soon.

R24 - well, it looks like he had just finished playing polo in the photo so he would be red and sweaty.

My question is, what is Kate really likes? She seems like such a cypher in her way: As tall and slim and smiling as a Barbie doll. Is there anything else to her?

What more do you want, R27? Her job is to look attractive while not outshining her husband and to continue the line of succession. Both of which she has done, admirably.

I think that Kate rocks!

You can find out some things about her in this. I read l she's confident, sporty, self assured, fairly grounded.

Kate has some personality. Here she is at an event in NYC where the host was, shall we say, a bit much.

She actually manages this kind of well, in that she's not entirely smooth but she's good natured and patient.

R30, So funny!

QEII was raised to duty and service to her country, Commonwealth and subjects, a gig she has performed admirably and superbly for 65 years. Charles and Wills have neither the sense of duty nor mental or emotional fortitude to handle the role of Sovereign. They'll go through the motions, but they will pale in comparison.

Kate has endured a lot of calumny over the years and has had to bear it without cracking. Now the pitiless spotlight has turned to her sub-par SiL and Kate's stock has risen. So she is noticeably more relaxed and confident, especially now as her status is being upgraded.

R33 Betty did her role as a Queen, no doubt.

But she also fucked up her children and has always been weak with them.

She may have been an ok Queen, it's not like she has much power to use so besides few speeches and visiting people she doesn't do much. But she didn't manage to assure her succession.

People love her because she has been there for so long but anyone with 3 braincells would have done the same.

R35, HM engages in very subtle diplomacy. You can dismiss her influence, but it's more substantial than anyone likes to report.

HM invited Mandela to a meeting of the Commonwealth Countries, before South Africa had returned to the Commonwealth. He had assumed he was invited, so she made sure to extend him an invitation. They became fast friends. She was well-known for being appalled at Thatcher's policies regarding South Africa and Apartheid. The Queen and Prince Philip were filmed dancing with joy when apartheid was finally repealed.

When she visited Ghana, it was against advice. I wish I could find her speech but, since there had been terrorist attacks in Ghana, in her speech, she reminded listeners that she was a mother, and that she had sworn to take risks on behalf of the British Commonwealth, and was willing to risk danger.

Ghana had been leaning towards to choosing to enter the Russian sphere of influence. Yet, after she danced with Kwame Nkrumeh, Ghana chose to remain in the Commonwealth.

In her speech at Dublin Castle, she opened her speech by speaking Gaelic. The Prime Minister just said, "Wow". The Earl of Mountbatten (a close relative to HM and Prince Philip), had been famously assassinated by the IRA, many years ago. She did a great deal to repair relations between Great Britain and Ireland, and it couldn't have been all that easy.

We hear all about 'social media influencers' now (God, I just want to punch them and make them disappear). HM isn't a social media influencer. She's actually a representative of the British State. If they decide they don't want her, they can always vote the BRF out. In the meantime, she's been incredibly responsible. and devoted. You Brits have managed to have a wonderful head of state, and there is no one who should ever be ashamed of her (unlike people like me, in Ohio).

Here are the Queen and Phil with their reactions to the end of Apartheid. You can see that Phil likely told her to settle a bit, but she thumbs her nose at him and "get's jiggy."

1961

[quote]People love her because she has been there for so long but anyone with 3 braincells would have done the same.

R35 Uhhhhhh . . .

Lol, r39.

The Queen's reign began in "recovery mode" as a continuation of her Father's reign repairing the damage the Duke of Windsor caused by abdicating. His action was a huge issue and a big problem. It gave momentum to republicans. "If even he doesn't want the the throne then why should we want it?"

Boy, Charles and Camilla have really packed on the pounds in the last year. If they keep eating and drinking as they do, Charles may really not outlive his mother. He's also begun to stoop over a bit. I know he played polo when he was younger, but does anyone know if he does anything now? I think that is why his parents have lasted so long. They are still physically active with their horses and such.

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Are those the royal bits I can see?

I've decided that the secret to their longevity is walking. Yes, they go horseback riding probably a few times a week, but honestly, if you had to walk around Buckingham Palace or Sandringham, or Windsor, just getting from you private apartment to the dining room or the parlor, you'd be pretty fit too. If Charles has arthritis, then drinking alcohol will aggravate it. Gin is bad for the bones.

You have good eyes because I see shit.

I think Kate is also more relaxed because she knows her position is secured by those three lovely children, and her baby-making days are over. Given how painful her pregnancies were for her, I doubt she'll have any more. And she kept her figure through it all! Good for her.

It's now up to Meghan and Eugenie (and Bea, if she can find a man) to produce more prominent royal babies for the public to coo over.

Few people care about Bea and Eugenie having babies. William and Harry are the premiere Royals in waiting.

Harry's babies will definitely be more important, but if Bea and Eugenie's status upgrades in the next few years, people might care more about their children. It all depends on whether the children ever receive titles. The public doesn't seem to care as much about Windsor children without titles.

I will not be surprised at all if Kate decides to have one or two more. I think she really enjoys being a mother. She does seem much more relaxed. Why shouldn't she be. She truly has a good life.

I wonder if there might be a tipping point with Kate's pregnancies, when the public will start to criticize her for adding yet another royal mouth for the public to clothe and feed. I think any more than four would be that point.

I think Kate and William might have one more child, just to be ABSOLUTELY SURE that the ginger idiot can never get anywhere near the throne.

Why do the English have such gnarly teeth?

I doubt Kate gonna have an other one.

Bug- eyed Beatrice of York. God, those big horse teeth are just bad.

A slide show of Chuck and Gorilla's trip to Gambia. The man is red faced and busting out of his clothes. Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex shows up in the last photo.

A slide show of Goth Princess Eugenie.

You'd think Meagain would hang with the Yorkies constantly. They're one of the few things can make her fashion choices look good.

Poor Bea, at least Eug looked lovely for her wedding.

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Charles and Camilla look like they can't wait to get back to the hotel and have a few G&T's in those Ghana pics.

I like Camilla's white pants and aqua tunic with matching fan. It looks like she pulled it out of the closet and is cool and comfy.

I also like her white dress with ruffles, and the way that she does NOT cradle her tummy bump. From link at R56 in the last picture with Edward.

I actually like all her clothes better than any of Meggles'.

Yeah, Cams is looking comfy and appropriate.

Charles is 70 years old now, so he's not supposed to look young with vigor. Longevity obviously runs on both sides of his family. He has access to the very apex of health care. He's quite alright, I'm sure. I like him, and I like Camilla - she seems like a jolly good drinking partner.

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He looks genuinely interested in the stuff presented to him.

Unlike Duke Dimwit and Duchess Merchan.

He looks like he had a deep swig from his flask on the way over.

R65, Charles was probably half in the bag in that pic.

Yeah, he looks like he is feeling NO pain in most of those snaps. He is usually more self contained. To me it read "twatty", but maybe he's just drunk and happy.

Camilla's clothes are better than anything MM wore on her trip.

How did Edward come to be there at the same time?

I had the same question about Edward as well R70. Seems odd.

I think Kate is tough as nails. Played her hand perfectly to get William.

Princess Michael's daughter is engaged to a guy who dated Pippa Middleton. She'll be an "older" bride at 38 and I bet George and Charlotte will be part of her wedding party.

When will we see a photo of Prince Louis again? Christmas card photo??

R72 I think Kate's mother is the one who is tough as nails. She orchestrated the whole thing.

Camilla always looks like she isn't wearing any underpants.

I could totally see her being the commando type r75. What she does need to be wearing is a better bra. Sometimes she is hoisted OK, other times those chariots are swinging low.

I saw this in an earlier post but thought I’d bring it up again. There are rumors that prince Louis has some issues... developmentally. Has anyone heard anything?

Where did you hear that r77? Or I guess I should ask do you know where the other poster on here who mentioned it heard that? I haven't myself. I make jokes that the kid has horns and that's why no photos. I hope that he's fine. There is so much conjecture on these threads that it starts getting hard to separate DL fiction from fact.

For the life of me, I don’t remember r78. Im positive it was somewhere on DL—I don’t go to any other gossip sites. It was fairly recent—the last few weeks or so. Ugh I hate getting old and losing my memory!

Hah, I know the feeling r79 Well, if there is indeed something up, knowing Will's pathological privacy fixation they will keep that shit locked down tight. Sophie doesn't talk about her son's issues, but as he gets older, and whatever is up with him hasn't been sorted, it will come out eventually.

What are Sophie’s sons issues?

Apparently, it is some form of social anxiety or awkwardness. I'm not going to throw out that overly abused "A" diagnosis, however. This is why we don't see him out and about much. There was a clip a couple of years ago where he was behaving a bit off, and you saw Sophie talking him down. This isn't the usual young boy antics. It seems more that he gets panicky or unnerved. Not enough info or footage to really get a bead on it, but there is something definitely up.

R77, you're not crazy about thinking you heard rumors about Louis. I remember the same. It must have been something someone said here at DL because I don't follow all those royal tumblrs and blogs. But he's still so young I don't know how anyone could have diagnosed anything at this point. And I'm not interested in searching here or elsewhere about it.

Yeah, R77 - he looks totally challenged and special.

You’re a gossiping fool.

R84 It's a gossip board. Welcome!

He's still so little... They wouldn't be able to accurately diagnose anything considered special unless it were down syndrome or something else chromosomal.

I have only a small interest in the English royals.

But I did raise a small titter at this—

What a swell party this is!

R74 Kate's mother sounds like Kris Jenner. She to knows a thing or two about orchestrating things.

Lead right to a $1.5 Billion dollar family fortune.

Why do the BRF care so much if their voted out of their position? They would still be wealthy and they would be able to do whatever they wanted to without the responsibility of being heads of state.

Unless they just enjoy being "royal." Can someone please explain that to me? Thanks!

When did Charles get plastic surgery on his ears?

The Royals, the Monarch especially, are the standard bearers of a history stretching beyond 1000 years. That fact alone is reason enough to protect the continuation of the Monarchy. Edward and Sophie's son, James, regularly hops into one of the Royal Land Rovers and drives for pleasure at Windsor and Balmoral, so he's capable in that and other things I'm sure. Baby Louis is just fine.

James is certainly just shy and awkward.

He drives a Land Rover at the age of 10?

R94 Private land. I'm sure there are plenty of DL farmboys who will tell you there were driving daddy's tractor and pick-up around the property when they were 10, 11 years old.

Yep, r95, that's pretty common.

William and Kate have been tight with pictures of all of their kids. We'll probably see them again when they release their annual Christmas card.

We see Charlotte and Georges regularly now.

They gonna protect Louis until he's around 3 years old, then introduce him slowly like the other 2.

r95 is correct. I grew up in a rural area, and my siblings, cousins and I were driving vehicle around our relatives' various properties as soon as our feet could reach the pedals. I was driving a stick-shift pickup truck by the time I was 9 or 10 years old.

Yes, supposedly James is obsessed with automobiles, to the point that he'll end up a race car driver or something like that.

The more I hear about him, the more aspie James sounds.

Loads of royal ladies getting married lately—Princess Eugenie and the pseudo royal Pippa Middleton. Any DL info on what their husbands (Jack Brooksbank and James Matthews) are packing? Hung uncut brits or are they circumcised upper crust? How about Zara Phillips’ rugby star husband?

They're getting married fast so they can still have Aunt (or Grandma) Lilibet and Grandpa Phil at the wedding. In 2-3 years, that probably won't be an option.

They are in a rush to get married not to take advantage of the still breathing and ambulatory Queen and DofE, but because in upper class circles, EVERYONE is married with children. If you are a singleton, you simply don't fit in, are not invited, are sent to social Coventry. Which might be better than having to listen to everyone crap on ad nauseum about their sprogs.

Is poor Beatrice destined for spinsterhood? Will she and Fergie turn into a Royals version of Grey Gardens?

Bea still has enough youth, money and fame that marriage is possible for her, if she acts quickly and lowers her standards a bit. Whether she'll do that or not remains to be seen.

Lady Davina Windsor, eldest daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, married a divorced Maori carpenter with a small son. Perhaps Bea should be a tad more realistic about her no doubt Fergie-fueled marital expectations.

It'd be awesome if poor put-upon Bea pulled somebody cute and really rich, like the newly minted Duke of Westminster, but that probably won't happen.

Here he is, R94

R82 I vaguely recall that he was photographed crying and breaking down during some outdoor event. Maybe this was the same event you're remembering.

One would expect that the young Duke of Westminster would vastly prefer someone with more than one functioning brain cell who doesn't look like an African animal.

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Concerning young James' behavior - here's another thing to consider. The paparazzi - they're not always respectful. In fact, they can be real fucking assholes at times. I'd read years ago that after the divorce, they'd regularly call Diana "cunt," "bitch," "whore" trying to get a reaction from her. If I was a ten year old boy again, I'd hate all the INTRUSION myself, I'm certain. He probably hates going to these public functions and it shows.

He certainly will choose somebody else, R111. It would be like something out of a movie, the put-upon spinster sister snatching the most eligible bachelor in Great Britain. Just a fun thought for a Sunday morning.

Grosvenor's current GF is Harriet Tomlinson, who went to school with him. She's a Kate Middleton type, well-educated, attractive, upper-middle class.

But R113, would the paparazzi really care enough about fourth-son Edward's son, who isn't even styled a prince, to try that sort of behavior with him? Diana was the most famous woman in the world, which leads to more extreme behavior.

I'm betting autism spectrum. He wouldn't be the first one in the royal family.

Third son, I mean. Edward is the fourth child but third son.

R112. Thanks so much for that article. I'm an admirer of Prince Philip, and it frightens me to think of when he's no longer here.

Well, this is the time when most of the Royals young friends are getting married, so the demand for pages and flower girls gives us a chance to see a lot more of Charlotte and George than their parents would ordinarily allow. As George outgrows the page boy thing Louis will pick it up. He can stand for Cousin Beatrice.

R114 - it's rumored that the Duke of Westminster and Hannah have split.

There's hope for Bea after all!

r113 that is true. Photographers would routinely yell the most obscene, vulgar things at Princess Diana to try and get a reaction. It was absolutely disgusting.

"Raise your head, you bitch! I've got a mortgage to pay and kids to put thru school".

The photographers treated her terribly after the divorce, but that still doesn't mean they're doing the same to a 10-year-old boy who is of no dynastic importance and, most importantly, nestled in the bosom of his powerful and protective family.

I saw James have a crying fit after attending church. What the hell would a ten-year-old have a meltdown over at church? He didn't like the sermon?

Maybe he wanted to go out for brunch and Mummy and Daddy said no, R124!

R115 And now Kim Kardashian is the most famous woman in the world, as well as the most photographed.

Even the "Queen" envies her.

This whole damn family is spoiled rotten. Why the hell do people put up with them and their unearned extravagance? It's fucking insane. The British public is really fucking stupid for allowing the "BRF" to still exist in this day and age.

The brits must love inequality.

Yu know, this is a nation that celebrated the service class for centuries. People who were "in service" to the wealthhy, the land ownders and even eventualy the marchant class they disdained. Generations upon generations in"in Service." And culturally, a widely held belief that this was as it should be. Now There is nothing wrong with being a servant, but if it is "accepting your lot" as an inferior than I have a problem with that.

That puff piece at r8 is so sugary it's unreadable. You'd think Camilla was a living saint.

[quote] Back in the U.K., Julian Payne is going over the following day’s engagements—one of which calls for the Duchess to take a drive in the car from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

[quote] “Is that wise, ma’am?” he asked her.

[quote] “Very!” she told him. “And I hope I get to go very, very fast.”

Very interesting. Diana famously hated the movie Chitty Chitty Bang Bang because it was what she and her siblings and the other local aristocratic children had to watch every year in the 1970s at Sandringham (which was near her family's house) , because that's what the royal family once bought to show the local rich children and never changed it. I wonder if this is some sort of dig at Diana's memory (especially the part about driving the car fast)

James, Viscount Severn is just like I am.

:-)

Philip, for all intents and purposes, has retreated to a monastic, ascetic life.

There have been rumors for years that he returned to the GOC .

Like his mother.

So according to the Mail story R132, there is a page, housekeeper, chef and footman and where he is reading, painting watercolours, writing letters and having friends to stay.

You must know all the best monasteries.

Was it in this thread or the last one we discussed the rumor that he has a mistress who visits him at Wood Farm?

r133, you have never been to a monastery with an Abbot and acolytes?

Philip has been to Athos; he knows what he is doing.

It's not all dirt floors and stone pillows...

"you have never been to a monastery with an Abbot and acolytes?"

No, amazingly.

r133 r136, and yet you have opinions.

THIS is the essence of DL!

Carry on.

Prince Philip is pushing 100. Most people who live to that age live a simpler life. I mean, you're not going to be out all night doing lines and fucking bitches as you approach the century mark.

[quote]I think Charles may have some circulation issues, but if you look at old color photos, he has always been really ruddy.

It's also possible that he has Rosacea, which is aggravated by alcohol and certain foods.

I have a strong feeling that Charles won't live as long as his parents.

He worries too much and is too self-pitying to last into his nineties.

I don't think Charles will outlive his mother.

Charles definitely has rosacea and the number one trigger and aggregator is alcohol. Charles drinks like a fish. Spending time in direct sunlight also makes it worse and he's outside a lot too.

^ Aggravator, not aggregator. Spellcheck.

There's no cure for rosacea but there are many effective treatments to keep it under control -- oral antibiotics, topical creams, lifestyle changes like staying out of the sun and limiting coffee and alcohol intake. Charles is above all that.

Maybe he doesn't want the throne. Ever thought about that?

Harry raised eyebrows when he said in an interview last year that Charles is the sole member of the royal family who actually wants the job of monarch.

Only a fool would want that job.

I heard once, and it might be bullshit, that in the late 80s the Queen was making plans to retire at some point, since Charles and Di were still fairly popular and stable. But once they publicly melted down, she resigned herself to a lifetime on the throne.

R148 - there's no need for the Queen to retire, abdicate or make Charles the Prince Regent. Although she has diminished her public appearances, the Queen is still able to carry out her duties. Charles, Camilla and the Cambridges will just take on some extra duties when they're needed to step in.

Why are people so surprised we aren't seeing much of Louis? He's a 6 month old baby, essentially just a slug that lays there. George and DL Fave Charlotte are older and have personalities, so there's no need to show off the new one. I don't remember seeing much of George and Charlotte before they started nursery school

Babies aren't interesting.

And in the corner waving their hands madly about wearing a hole in his sole and a padded strapless bra and slit up to her thigh are the Sussexes ready to monopolize the spotlight, I mean share the workload. HazBean damn well will not be overlooked!

I have Rosacea and no treatment keeps mine fully under control, despite the fact that I never drink. Charles may be one of the unfortunate ones and then worsens it with his lifestyle.

[quote]essentially just a slug that lays there.

So, he takes after his mother, then?

What is GOC?

Harry should be King. He seems to have the most star power.

That's a stupid idea.

Ha! Harry is a slovenly druggy with a trashy wife who flashes her tits and whooha. This is not the Real Housewives of the Windsor Court, or else she would be perfect.

Harry is a spoiled, illiterate fuckwit. He would be a disaster.

GOC = Greek Orthodox Church I think.

Fuck off, sugary R153.

My guess, R150, is that Wills and Kate and their kids are so shiny and perfect, people are eager to find some flaw in the family. A youngest child with developmental problems would fit the bill.

I would SO watch The Real Housewives of Kensington Palace.

FFS, stop worrying about lil' Louis, he'll be on the Cambridge's annual Christmas/New Year's card.

What does implying Kate is lazy have to do with being "sugary", fuckwit at r160?

I see the BRF has checked in.

I see the Frauen have checked in...though they never really leave, do they?

Was Wallis Simpson trans?

That rumor's been around for decades, but I don't see an Adam's Apple here.

R164, because throwing shade at Kate is typical for these Meghan lunatics.

If you're not one of them, sorry for referring to you as 'sugary'.

Wallace always looks like such a hardened maneater in most photographs, but part of that was the makeup and hair of the 30s, as well as her RBF. She looks much better with a softer haircut and expression:

Well, R169 I can't speak for r164 but I have zero love for either Kate or Meghan. It is possible to dislike both, if perhaps for different reasons.

hey, I can't find Part 20: Dangling Tendrils. I googled it and nada, can someone link to it here?

Here

I like the pom poms where the tits should have been in R167. Haha

Anyone have any information on just how slutty Princess Di was? I know she had lovers, but was she a serial monogamist or was she throwing it around everywhere?

Go fuck YOURself, r169. I don't give a flying fuck about Chicken Ankles, but so what if I did? Why do you feel the need to police anyone's comments about the royal loafers?

^*facepalm* ...

Anyway, I've always heard Diana was a serial monogamist. But she could be scarily obsessive about her man of the moment. Wasn't she calling some married guy's house dozens of times a day and then hanging up?

Oh, the lunacy! You create a 20 part blood-letting thread devoted to tear apart "chicken ankles", BUT one word of commentary not favorable to the Duchess of Cannot and you're automatically "sugary". So says the salty canned "Sardine" thread monitor.

Isn't there a Caesar salad somewhere in need of your attention?

Five metaphors in one post r179.

BRAVO!

Can you two bitches take the fighting to the Meghan Markle thread? Nobody gives a shit in this one.

Getting back to shitting on skanky chicken ankles and the rest of 'em...

The sugar with her dumb Sardine crap is back at R179 ... despite the fact that nobody here gives a fuck about her Sardine nonsense, she relentlessly and desperately tries to make this term 'happen'.

Is there a top down list of Princes and Princesses who are still alive, say from Edward VII?

George V?

George VI only had daughters and none of Maggie's kids count.

Why do people hate Meghan so much? Isn't she everything all brits want to be? I don't get it.

The surviving Princes/Princesses who aren't in the direct line we all know about would have to be descendants of George V's other sons, Henry Duke of Gloucester, or George Duke of Kent. That would be Prince Richard Duke of Gloucester, Prince Edward Duke of Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, and Princess Alexandra, Lady Ogilvy.

Living princes and princesses, by age:

HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh HRH The Duke of Kent HRH Princess Alexandra, Lady Ogilvy HRH Prince Michael of Kent HRH The Duke of Gloucester HRH The Prince of Wales HRH The Princess Royal HRH The Duke of York HRH The Earl of Wessex HRH The Duke of Cambridge HRH The Duke of Sussex HRH Princess Beatrice of York HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank HRH Prince George of Wales HRH Princess Charlotte of Wales HRH Prince Louis of Wales

This doesn't include people entitled to use the title who do not: Lady Louise Windsor and Viscount Severn. This doesn't include women who are married to a prince: HRH The Duchess of Kent, HRH Princess Michael of Kent, HRH The Duchess of Gloucester, HRH The Duchess of Cornwall, HRH The Duchess of Cambridge, HRH The Duchess of Sussex

Oops -- and HRH The Countess of Wessex

Can someone please enlighten me as to the death of the last Edward VII prince?

I have no Idea how to google that.

Google unfriended me.

Just look up the royal family tree, see which descendant died last, then Wikipedia the descendant for death details.

If the election of 2016 hadn't happened I might never have conceived to ask this question, but it is a mad mad world where the unimaginable becomes stark reality. What if Charles does not appoint Wills as Prince of Wales? Supposedly, he doesn't have to and it is not automatically appointed. In fact, investiture can be withheld for years. "Since the 14th century, the title has been a dynastic title granted to the heir apparent to the English or British monarch, but the failure to be granted the title does not affect the rights to royal succession. The title is granted to the heir apparent as a personal honour or dignity, and is not heritable, merging with the Crown on accession to the throne." There seems to be heavy campaigning to make Harry and by association Meghan as relevant. I would not put it above a man who moaned to be somebody's tampon as not thinking let's be fair and balanced and give Harry this since Wills is naturally going to inherit the throne eventually... probably. Just because it hasn't happened this century, we have centuries rife with stories of brother pitted against brother in pursuit of the crown. What checks are there really if Harry were to gain momentum as a future King Henry?

A Guiding light. Thank you r190.

Thanks r173

Edward VII only had two sons. Albert Victor died young, and George V became king. George's descendants are described above.

Charles isn't popular enough and William/Kate are entirely too popular for any fuckery with the Prince of Wales succession, R191.

>>HRH Prince George of Wales HRH Princess Charlotte of Wales HRH Prince Louis of Wales<<

They go by the name "... of Cambridge", not "... of Wales".

R191, Charles has no control over the succession. It is determined by law: the Act of Settlement of 1701 and the Succession to the Crown Act of 2013. Those laws require the throne to go, after Charles, to William and then George and his descendants, then Charlotte and her descendants, and then Louis and his descendants. It would take an Act of Parliament, ratified by all the countries over which the monarch reigns, to change the order. As for the title Prince of Wales, it is true that the monarch may not grant it to his eldest son, in which case William would simply be known as HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge until he succeeds his father. After centuries of tradition, I cannot imagine Charles granting it to Harry; nothing like that has ever been done, and Charles is, if nothing else, a traditionalist.

George VII's two granddaughters by his daughter Princess Louise were not born princesses, but later styled that way due to a special order given by the King.

From Wikipedia: [Quote]On 9 November 1905, King Edward VII declared his eldest daughter Princess Royal.[1] He further ordered Garter King of Arms to gazette Lady Alexandra Duff and her sister Lady Maud Duff with the style and attribute of Highness and the style of Princess prefixed to their respective Christian names, with precedence immediately after all members of the British Royal Family bearing the style of Royal Highness.[1] From that point, Her Highness Princess Alexandra held her title and rank, not from her ducal father, but from the decree issued by will of the sovereign (her grandfather).

Whoops, R196, you are right. --R187

Thank you r194.

Then I went back to Q Victoria and she has royal prince grandsons who died in the 50s.

R189, you might find this Wikipedia page on the descendants of Albert and Victoria helpful.

r201, that is indeed helpful.

R27 won't be happy until Kate pulls a "Diana"

R27 loves the drama!

R187 / R199, no problem.

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The older you get the less surprised you become from the vagaries of life. The idea that Meghan could someday hold the title Princess of Wales by whatever means of fuckery would be outrageous sure, but not altogether outside the realm of possibility.

The only way Meghan will be Princess of Wales is if she offs William, Charlotte, George, and Louis. Otherwise, she's shit out of luck.

But, r183 you continue to respond to the moniker, as if it fits... Sooooo…..

^No, that's ridiculous fantasy. There are too many legislatures involved - around the world - to pull that off. Stop trying to stealth pimp that arriviste, because she'll be exiting long before she becomes Princess of Wales.

The Meagain the thread is all agog because the British press is reporting that Harry, Meagain AND Doria have been invited to spend Christmas at Sandringham, adding that the Middletons have never been invited. The latter part is not true, even if the first part is. The Middletons stay with Will and Kate at Amner Hall when invited, not the main house. Amner Hall is on the grounds of the Sandringham estate and is Will and Kate's country residence. The Middletons have attended Church and other family events with HM and the BRF on Christmas day.

There have been other Christmases when the Cambridges have stayed with the Middletons at their home and foregone going to Sandringham. But again, it's not true the Middletons have never been invited to Sandringham at Christmas, it's just that they stay at Amner Hall when they do.

I can guarantee MM will not be around that long. Unlike some Americans who move to Britain, MM is not an Anglophile. She is not leaping into adopting British customs; she keeps emphasising that she is American. The life of a British minor royal is not the life she craves, even though she didn't realise it before she joined. My guess is she be happiest married to a Hollywood hotshot and she could be part of a power couple.

I'm the one who called you out for acting like a 12 year-old fantard and policing comments, r208, but r183 is someone else, so don't assume all criticism of you has come from only 1 person who continues to respond. Apparently, I'm not the only one who finds your behavior puerile.

We were having fun slagging lazy Kate and calling Diana a homely stalker until you threadjacked us with your sugary nonsense. Go back to the Sparkle threads if you don't know anything interesting about the other royals.

I’m convince that Kate was the woman who I reflexively told to “fuck off” last Spring, after she barked at me to “step aside, [italic] this [/italic] is an office building!” Except that she didn’t have body guards and was rolling a small suitcase after her, by herself. She looked exactly like Kate. Her indignant, jaw-dropping reaction seemed exactly like what one might expect from someone who was accustomed to others being servile to her.

Is it possible that Kate might have been traveling without a guard? I’m guessing not.

Now, at least I know what an office building is. We don’t have them in the States.

R212, after the “disaster” of Diana and Fergie, in the eyes of the Royals, I’d have to believe that they made very sure that both Kate & MM were briefed in advance and in detail as to what they can expect. Shame on them if they did not, and they deserve what they get.

I thought Edward VII's brother George succeeded him. I know someone had a brother George who succeeded him and I'm not talking about the current queen's father.

BTW, George III the guy who was king when the American Colonies rebelled, was only 22 years old when he became king. Elizabeth is his direct descendant isn't he?

Edward VII's eldest son, Albert Victor, died in his 20s and was succeeded by his brother, who became George V.

Albert Victor was a twitchy, inbred disaster (I don't believe he was Jack the Ripper: He was far too stupid to plan anything like that). The Royal Family really dodged a bullet when he died of pneumonia. The death was so convenient that it's given rise to rumors. By some accounts, he simply had a bad cold and was resting in bed when suddenly the royal doctor showed up and gave him a shot. Within a few hours, he was dead.

I think there’s zero chance of MM leaving Harry, nor would she ever want to. Btw, has DLers been reading the MM blinds on CDAN? They are amongst his nastiest reveals. I wonder why such hatred for her.

Albert Victor: He certainly doesn't look like he's all there. The eyes are quite blank.

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R217, because she's a merching, grifting fame and attention whore, fake as fuck and goddamn pretentious, that's why. Simple as that.

The bloke in R219's pic looks high as a kite.

[quote]By some accounts, he simply had a bad cold and was resting in bed when suddenly the royal doctor showed up and gave him a shot. Within a few hours, he was dead.

I think that's people dressing up history when they find it dull. He was ill for days and delirious and what he said was embarrassing by all accounts. I am reading the new bio about Queen Mary and there are several references to people being crowded in his very small bedroom over several days.

Freddy Windsor always looks like that.

^ Ffs, Halloween's over.

*this year

[quote]He was ill for days and delirious and what he said was embarrassing by all accounts.

All the more reason to shut him up with a hypo full of morphine. An overdose would have been easy to quickly and discreetly administer.

Albert Victor was so emotionally unstable, he would have jeopardized the entire monarchy. The Palace was more than capable of that kind of behavior--they gave George V a hypo of morphine and cocaine when he was lingering on his deathbed so he would be dead in time for it to make the morning papers, which were considered more dignified than the evening papers. These are some ruthless bastards.

(220) perhaps but CDAN doesn’t call out others as much ..

R227, if you don't stop bringing up Markle, we're going to send Lord Freddie and his terrifying eyes after you.

R227, I don't need any blind items in order to see that she's fake as fuck and full of herself.

As you insist, R226.

THAT'S IT

Hahahahahaha, W&W for R228!

Any more of these scare-inducing Freddie pics? (Sadly not as in Freddie vs Jason, but pretty close.)

Thank you, R232.

AFAIK, there are no non-terrifying pictures of Freddy Windsor. Even on his wedding day, he looks like he's thinking up ways to murder the bride after the reception.

Freddie the Freak!

It's also been alleged that Albert Victor died from syphilis, which in its later stages causes dementia as well as physical deterioration. The treatments back then were limited and not very effective. But pneumonia sounds much nicer in the morning papers, don't you think?

If he had the syph, Mary of Teck had a lucky escape, as they were planning their wedding when he died. That's another motive for his murder: Couldn't have a syphilitic heir giving HIS heir congenital deformities.

That said, George V and Mary's heir may has well had congenital syphilis, David was such a shrimpy little wreck of a man. The fact that they made him into a sex symbol shows you that PR spin was alive and well a century ago.

The Windsors started breeding height back in with Prince Philip, and then again with Princess Diana and Kate Middleton. Before that, they all seemed pretty puny.

I love this picture of James.

[quote]Now, at least I know what an office building is. We don’t have them in the States.

What?! Do you think our offices are housed in parks and private homes?

And then there was an Albert who BECAME a George.

Just wait till the next George decides to become Georgette.

[quote] R146: Harry raised eyebrows when he said in an interview last year that Charles is the sole member of the royal family who actually wants the job of monarch

Perhaps this was attempt at humility. But it seems more like Harry’s an ungrateful, spoiled, jackass. Considering the worries with which most people in the UK regularly encounter.

Harry was only stating the obvious for the next person destined for the job.

some good news for a future king or queen.

R191, isn’t the title “Prince of Wales” intended to knot the country(?) of Wales to the UK and Royal family? It gives the Welsh a seat at the table, in a sense. No?

This is exactly what he said: His full remark went: “Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so, but we will carry out our duties at the right time.”

Now Harry's not the brightest bulb, look at his awful choice of a wife, but charitably you might construe he was trying, for a stupid person, to articulate the idea that this role is not a choice but a duty and they are duty bound to see it through. On the other hand he may be so thick he doesn't understand a lot of the cool shit goes down the the ship (presumably including his awful choice of a wife, who I can't see sticking with a deposed Duke and his tweedy, shooting relations.)

Markle CAN be discussed, briefly, because SHE IS A PART OF THE ROYAL FAMILY. THE HATE IS REAL DUE TO HER BLACK HERITAGE, THAT SHE RUNS FROM, LOL AND HER DRAMATIC ASCENT IN LIFE!!

She is an expert and dedicated social climber who was able to achieve her goal to rise to the top, by any means necessary, discarding dead weight and useless friends and family. Most people don't have the intestinal fortitude or vision. So many girls ask, "WHY HER"? Why couldn't they do such a thing? They resent that someone seemingly so ordinary could achieve what she did; it makes them feel like losers so they go online to work out their rage.

Pretty sure that was meant as sarcasm, r240.

The key words are "discuss" and "briefly", r248. Sparkle Police does not understand the concept of either andwastes pur time with her attacks on anyone she thinks is having an independent thought about Chicken Ankles.

Is Sparkle Police also the scold that tries to direct what can and cannot be discussed generally on this thread? Talk about a fun sponge...

Sparkle Police is the one who interjects MM into every conversation on this thread, without the sense to know that we were talking about someone else. Sparkle has her own dedicated threads, so why repetitively say the same old shit about her here unless it actually pertains to the discussion? If you feel scolded for being asked to stay on topic and not make assumptions/attack people who dare to disprove of Kate, that's your issue.

Scoldy.

Lol, yep!

Edward and Alexandra withdrew Albert Victor from the school he was attending because his performance was so bad it was embarrassment to the family. They assigned him a private tutor who eventually informed His Majesty that his son was incapable of learning.

Albert Victor was also a dissolute louche who probably contacted syphilis during one of his worldwide tours of duly in the Navy. Or perhaps, as was whispered, at the Cleveland Street male brothel, where he was rumored to be regular. Certainly some of his associates were.

Interesting letters that the Royal Family social media accounts have been posting re: WWI. It’s cute to hear George V call his son “dear boy” and refer to himself as “papa”, before ending the letter with the cypher of a sovereign who basically owned 1/3 of the world.

And as someone mentioned above, he was most certainly not Jack the Ripper. He was far, far to stupid to have gotten away with that.

I heard they're German and related to Angela Markell, so I voted to leave the EU.

Here's the opening paragraph of Wikipedia's article on the Cleveland Street scandal:

" The Cleveland Street scandal occurred in 1889, when a homosexual male brothel in Cleveland Street, London, was discovered by police. The government was accused of covering up the scandal to protect the names of aristocratic and other prominent patrons. At the time, sexual acts between men were illegal in Britain, and the brothel's clients faced possible prosecution and certain social ostracism if discovered. It was rumoured that Prince Albert Victor, the eldest son of the Prince of Wales and second-in-line to the British throne had visited, though this has never been substantiated. Unlike overseas newspapers, the English press never named the Prince, but the allegation influenced the handling of the case by the authorities,[1] and has coloured biographers' perceptions of him since."

Alexandra clearly had her son killed. That scheming bitch!

Yes, R240 & R249, that was sarcasm. It’s not like I was standing on private property; or was part of a brass band playing in front of a church, library, or hospital. I can only wonder what she thought was so important about an “office building”, that justified her demanding anyone to “step aside” and clear a path for her.

She stopped maybe 10 paces down, then turned to me with her jaw-open, in shock. I was tempted to call her a cunt, ala DataLounge, but I just moved along.

Of course, most men won’t bark orders in the same way, because they know it would invite a confrontation.

I’m dissapointed that it was wasn’t Kate, though. It would make a better story.

Charles could easily have his rosacea taken care of. There are several things dermatologists can do to get rid of it these days.

R262 that's not always true. There are treatments that control it but not cure it. They don't work for everyone. The causes aren't the same for everyone.

Sorry, R261. I'm usually pretty decent at picking up on sarcasm, but not this time. Haven't there been random sightings of a Kate Middleton lookalike on London street? Recently, there was a spotting of a Meghan lookalite toting a yoga mat in a neighborhood close to KP.

r219, Lord Freddy Windsor would be an X-times grand-nephew of Prince Albert Victor.

Both r262 and R263 are both correct, at least in part. Not all treatments work for everyone, as the disease presents itself differently in different patients. Learning to control it is a trial and error experience, sometimes a long one, as I have experienced and posted earlier.

I don't think Charles had the interest, patience or discipline to do so. I think the person who posted that nothing worked for him is probably a particularly bad case who shouldn't have given up. Most people can find improvement of some sort.

Regarding Charles' recent weight gain, if those Daily Mail excerpts from the upcoming biography are to be believed, he sounds rather ascetic in his food intake so the weight gain must be bloating from the alcohol. He has a "bowl of seeds" for breakfast, doesn't eat lunch, has just one crumpet with tea, but has a regular dinner. If really has such little food intake during the day, having the customary two (or however many) martinis and wine with dinner can really pack a whammy. It's amusing how his staffers are concerned that he's flagging for in energy in the early evenings because he doesn't eat enough, often falling asleep at his desk. Um, dollars to donuts it's the alcohol. I'm not really familiar with how alcohol bloating works. It's not just beer that causes it, right? As one gets older, the system has less resilience and recuperative ability

[quote] Harry should be King. He seems to have the most star power.

That's not how it works, hon.

A bowl of seeds?? Ewwwww...

“Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so, but we will carry out our duties at the right time.”

Harry said that? Sounds like William and the others are playing down the advantages of being King to Harry so that Harry won't feel so bad about what's he's going to miss out on.

I think there was a time when William actually didn't want to be King. He seems to have come around, though. Harry would do it in a heartbeat.

Not surprising. The Royal Family have always approached the bittersweet topic of accession like a very important duty, NEVER to be enjoyed. Sure the Queen will say that she loves meeting people from all walks of life as a part of her role, but she would never say that she’s glad her dad died, clearing her way.

Isn't it safe to say that the Queen herself didn't really want to ascend to the throne? She was perfectly content being a Navy wife and, if what I've read is correct, would have preferred the simpler life of a country wife having kids and breeding horses and dogs. She was shy and reserved and didn't have the best temperament suited for the highly public role of head of state, but as many posters have noted her sense of duty as being ordained to the role prevailed.

I have a hard time believing Harry would want to be king. I don't think he can imagine himself going through the slag of all the paperwork in the "red boxes" or meeting weekly with the PM or any highly driven and invariably more intelligent people that he is.

Harry is a self-indulgent, spoiled rotten dunce. Seriously, he is very stupid. He would be a ridiculous king. The image of him going through the red boxes or meeting with the prime minister is laughable, he would have no idea what to do.

[quote] Sorry, [R261]. I'm usually pretty decent at picking up on sarcasm, but not this time.

For what it's worth I didn't get the sarcasm either.

Yeah, Harry as monarch would be a disaster in the vein of Edward VIII or Queen Margaret; even better the equivalent of a King Andrew.

Could baby Louis be a Mongoloid? Referencing R84's photo.

Is Harry really that dumb?

^Yup

"Dumb" is probably not the right word to describe Harry. He's certainly charismatic, intuitive, passionate, and other positive things. I think Harry just never was an intellectual and doesn't really care. He would've been a career soldier if he'd been allowed, I think. That doesn't make him dumb. It just makes him average. And that's a big part of why he's so incredibly popular with his people.

Not for nothing is he referred as dimwit. One of Harry's former teachers, Sarah Forsyth, has asserted that Harry was a "weak student" and that staff at Eton conspired to help him cheat on examinations. While a tribunal made no ruling on the cheating claim, it "accepted the prince had received help in preparing his A-level 'expressive' project, which he needed to pass to secure his place at Sandhurst, Unlike his brother, sil, and wife, he does not have a college degree as Sandhurst precluded requiring a bachelor equivalent to receive a commission. He loved the military but it is understood in well known circles that there was no way Harry would be able to successfully pass his promotion to major boards and he therefore resigned his commission, although grand-mama bestowed plenty of honors to compensate for his military rank shortcomings.

Harry gave the stock answer. To say they were looking forward to it would be unseemly with the queen still very much alive. Of course they're not looking forward to it.

I don't think he's dumb just because he wasn't interested in school. He was going through a lot of emotional changes and turmoil, has admitted to mental health issues. he may also be one of those people who learn more by doing things than by sitting in a classroom attending lectures. I don't think he's a rocket scientist, but he is not dumb. I've watched him do interviews. he's quick witted, has a good sense of humor, he's empathetic and intuitive, and those are markers of someone of above average intelligence who may have been intellectually lazy but seems now to be interested in learning and growing. I like him enormously. I think William is a prig.

R281 hit the nail on the head. Harry certainly isn’t out here stuttering like his great grandfather. The guy has mental and emotional tools to do what he needs to do in his personal and public life.

Why is it that one cannot speak of Harry, without knocking his brother? Same for their wives?

Harry is strongly rumored to have a drug problem, he may need rehab, so you might want to dial back that line of gushing in the meantime.

Harry's tool is playing the charming clown to offset his puerile deficiencies. Even the simplest of minds would have discerned the stupidity of dressing in Nazi regalia replete with matching swastika armband--for a laugh.

I'm glad no one judged me by what I did when I was 20-21. He was drinking and partying like crazy. He was dealing with a host of mental health issues and he was hanging with a real wild set. He's admitted and owned up to his transgressions. I 'm not going to hang it around his neck and judge him for the rest of his life for it.

Without invoking she who must not be named, did you see Harry's behavior on tour Down Under? When is he to "know better" for his shenanigans? Still you will persist how Harry eclipses his brother in your estimation.

Lol but the royal expert queens on the datalounge, surely will, R285. They are 100% convinced that he and his new wife are pure evil and will harbor the end of days.

I love this clip of the Queen telling William to stand up.

If you ignore the red flags, embrace the heartache to come. Some of us choose not to ignore the red flags but revel in ensuing the shit show.

I see Harry's Sugars are here in full force.

Harry is dumb and childish, he's also an emotional mess and a slob. For some reason some people think that makes him charismatic because he is so unlike his brother. But he is not charismatic, he has never been. He just doesn't look like a Royal.

The only thing that saved him was an incredible PR offensive in the press after the Nazi and Vegas debacle, "Good King Harry". My ass.

Why would Meghan leave Harry? Does she have some better prospect?

She would leave Harry when the tedium and limitations of her royal life sink in. It's unknown whether they will have the 21 room apartment at KP, or whether they will be given a country house. Meanwhile, she has attracted an avalanche of bad press, and there is considerable blowback onto the BRF. I believe it that PH's friends have iced her, and she is unlikely to ever adapt to their mode of living, eg hunting. She may never have achieved the acclaim she wanted as an actress, but for sure she didn't face the ridicule and contempt she now gets whatever she does. She's not Camilla or Kate, playing the long game. Obviously PH cannot provide the income and leisured life she'd enjoy. Also, PH isn't exactly the most stimulating companion, in terms of MM's interests.

Has anyone discussed the whole James Hewitt angle for Harry?

Kate was and is still pretty iced out too by Willy's friends. She still does not have any female friends of note, and she and Billy just hole up together until he goes off to Africa to get his Africa on. Let's keep the revisionist history to a minimum please.

That said, Kate does have a new confidence, and it looks good on her. I think the presence of MM and her lack of ability has possibly given Kate the kick in the ass everyone was waiting for. Now all she has to do is show up to more engagements (which she hasn't really to speak of), look put together, not behave like a dolt, and she will get the accolades. She will never be an Anne or even a Sophie when it comes to hard work. Shitting out kids when you have a ton of help is not hard work.

I hadn't visited this thread for a couple of days, but it had me cackling with glee, reading it this morning. I must say, I really do love you shady bitches.

Why don't his friends like her?

R296 She was never really accepted. She and her sister were notorious climbers aka "The Wisteria Sisters" thanks to Carole's ambition, and Kate was far below most of the friends of Willy's station. "Not their kind". type of thing. I don't know the full story, but she just never really fit in from what I understand. Not an Aristo, not a big personality, not a lot of "there, there". She was also a bit of a mean girl in her day, especially to Bea, a stupid move considering she was going to need all of the BRF friends she could get. She isn't close to anyone in that family. By choice or by other factors, who knows? She and Billy keep to themselves and at the time it was not looked upon favourably.

William and Kate hang out with Anne's kids (who seem like a good lot). Judging by the weddings they attend and who they select for godparents for their kids, Kate has a core group of women from school she is close to. Will, too. The reason you don't hear much about them is that these friends are circumspect and don't blab to the press. William in particular seems like he would and has cut anyone who uses them out of their life. There is an old story about how he rests people by giving them false information and feeding it to the press.

^*tests

Ginger wearing the Nazi armband has more to do with Britain's entrenched, socially acceptable bigotries and hatreds. He would have never appeared publicly in blackface.

Also, in the last few years Kate has seem more accepted at family gatherings, i.e., other royal family members chatting with her, George and Charlotte participating in Eugenie's wedding, etc. Of course, that may just be them realizing that neither the Queen and Charles are long for this world and they better start cozying up to the next one in line.

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The Old Boy's 97 years old. He's spent 65 years in public service to his country and sovereign. If he wants to sit around all day wanking and munching Quality Street, he more than deserves to.

Philip looks wonderful for 97.

He just looks like some old man who's the game keeper. If he'd died when he was 80 he would have still retained some of his dashing good looks and we could have mourned him nostalgically. But now when he dies, he will be an old man with a bony nose.

R293, there is no "Hewitt" angle for Harry. The older he gets, the more and more Harry resembles Charles (and especially Philip).

Oh dear, R305, you must be young.

R305, Prince Philip will be remembered for his longevity. And his gaffes.

Here's Prince Philp just a few years ago, pressing a photographer to "Take the fucking picture!" I believe this clip inspired the very last line in the Season 2 season finale of "The Crown".

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You all speak like you’re these people’s best friends. How many of you are actual palace insiders?

R311, you're right, why should people use a "general gossip" forum to speculate about famous people?

Anne and Philip are my favorite Royals.

Considering the number of records related to the Cleveland Street scandal that were burned or disappeared, I think it's a safe guess that Albert Victor was getting his freak on at the male brothel. Nobody bothers to hide evidence that isn't there.

I think the Windsors have to accept Kate fully at this point: She birthed an heir, a spare, and another spare, and going by the look of both Charles and the Queen, there's an above-average chance she'll be Queen Consort within 10 years.

Oh yeah, r315 she's not going anywhere at this point.

I do see HM outliving Chuck with one arm clutching a racing form tied behind her back.

Here's an interesting bit of gossip to chew over:

There have been rumors that Princess Margaret was HIV positive. Caught it from John Bindon, a gangster she met and fucked in Mustique. The Royal Family has, it's said, gone to considerable trouble to erase all connection between Margaret and Bindon.

At this point I doubt Margaret was HIV Pos. I think she died the way they said she died. She had cancer. Margaret smoked and drank with abandon. She had at least two strokes that ravaged her body with partial paralysis.

Is it odd that the Queen is still at Windsor in early November? I thought she spends the summer there but she comes back to Buckingham Palace in the fall?

I believe that HM is transitioning Windsor into the residence of the Sovereign and Buck House as the ceremonial seat of the Government.

I think that The Queen only spends 3 days a week at Buckingham Palace now, she arrives late on Monday and leaves on Thursday afternoon if there are no meetings on Friday.

She always spends weekends at Windsor except December to February (Sandringham) and August & September when she is at Balmoral.

I don't think Margaret necessarily died of HIV, but it could have complicated her other health problems.

No one of the RF really likes Buckingham Palace. I think it's like living in a massive museum.

Princess Margaret didn't have cancer, she died after several strokes.

[quote]At this point I doubt Margaret was HIV Pos.

Who dwelling in reality ever claimed she did?

i think harry and meghan met through a matchmaker - same with george and amal. that's how they got connected as couples.

also why wouldn't H&M want to have some badass cottage in the costwolds? gorgeous area and so much room. i would kill for anne's set up over KP any day.

R324 yes she died after several strokes but she did have part of her lung removed and was acknowledged as a heavy smoker. They rushed to claim it was benign and she didn't have cancer, but they removed part of her lung. Right. There were rumors that it was cancer and either they didn't want her to know or she didn't want it known. Her father died of lung cancer and she was reported to have taken it very hard.

[quote]i would kill for anne's set up over KP any day.

Same here. Princess Anne's house (Gatcombe Park) is to die for.

R309, Phillip has that far-away confused look that old people sometimes get. That, his age, and his angered reaction to the photographer make me think it’s dementia.

Gatacombe Park (thanks for the picture R328) - it's lovely. And not huge.

I'm sure you're right, R329, because he's been seen several times since without looking any more confused with the passage of time, which I understand to be the case with dementia, so obviously they are drugging him heavily to assure compliance, which makes his ability to walk so much more confusing. I think it was a hologram at Sparkle's wedding obviously because, as you say, he's definitely and obviously got dementia. Great call!

He’s 97 for fuck’s sake! Who cares if he has dementia or not?!?!

He’s done his bit for the UK - leave him alone.

He doesn't have dementia. I have dealt with people in their 90's who had dementia. Three of them. And Philip may have a hearing problem, and he may have to pay close attention trying to keep u with a conversation, but if he is developing dementia it's in the very earliest stages. Now the shortness of temper and the outburst have been a trademark of his personality for at least 30 years.

He isn't developing dementia. R329 floated that in the worst tradition of the internet: I feel or I think based on no fucking evidence at all, just conjecture for the worst case. Note upstream someone also asserted Princess Margaret had HIV. And we all know Martian princesses can't get HIV.

Pretty amazing the Queen is riding at 92 years of age.

It is, R335! I read something in the past couple of days or maybe it was in a you tube video, but someone close to her on her staff said they believed that if she had not been queen she'd have been very happy out in the country and knew everything about her estates, etc. in terms of trees and crops and grasses etc She loves her horses and dogs and loves to go tramping around out in the woodlands. I suppose she has been riding horses almost daily (unless she was traveling) since she was a young child.

I once read, probably on DataLounge, that the Queen was out for a walk somewhere with a friend or employee or somebody. Eventually, a passerby who didn’t recognize her engaged them in conversation. When the stranger heard that the Queen lived in the town where the Royal residence was, the stranger asked if she ever met the Queen. The Queen thought a moment and then pointed to her friend and said “No, but he has.”

I just read on the MM board that HM had actually been “gravely” ill in 2016 when she missed a bunch of engagements. The use of the word “gravely” is troubling. Anyone know what happened? The palace said it was a bad cold.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that mysterious illness. It was discussed here on DataLounge at the time, but it didn’t sound like anyone knew anything.

Harry has a big cock. Lol.

It's obvious. First few seconds of him in that cream/tan suit.

Lol. Big mooseknuckle.

R340 I think William does too. Always a big bulge in his pants!

R338 I think there was a bad cold going round that year. The cough after would linger for months. Maybe something like walking pneumonia. R328 Gatcombe looks wonderful. Any interior photos? I wonder if the decoration hasn't been updated since the 70's?

Chances are, seeing how Anne appears at public appearances, Gatcombe Hall has not been renovated or redecorated in god knows how long. I bet she doesn't even turn on the heat.

She got the flu then it went into pneumonia. She was very congested and they said she had to have complete rest and then as she recovered her resistance was still low so they said stay away from crowds. She didn't even go to church.

A couple of questions: why didn’t Elizabeth make Philip king rather than the Duke of Edinburgh? And what exactly do all those titles mean—Prince of Wales, duke of this, earl of that? Does it give them ownership of lands? Income from a particular source?

Some come with lands and are old established titles. There are all different categories for various titles created by various monarchs.

There are families in the UK who have had lands and titles for hundreds of years and a re wealthier and much grander that Betty Windsor.

King is always higher than Queen, so that wouldn’t have worked.

The only extant duchies are Lancaster and Cornwall, titles held by the Queen and Charles respectively. The rest of the royal and non-royal dukedoms do not explicitly infer land ownership. Many still own castles and lands related to their titles, but they are owed no proceeds from people living in those areas, and they don’t govern people.

Duke of Cornwall is automatically the soverign’s eldest son. Prince of Wales is historically the same bearer but has to be manually conferred by the sovereign. Similarly all other honors flow from the sovereign. She can create anyone anything she wishes.

So when Charles becomes King, William will become the Prince of Wales?

Serious question for the Brits here - why do you go along with this and support it? It doesn't bring in tourists; that's been shown So that just leaves tradition But when every single member of the RF has been shown to be average or below, in every desirable quality, why do you agree to let these people continue in that role, with all the money and privileges they have? Do you really see them as superior to you or more deserving?

348. Yes, Charles (the King) will likely invest him with the title very soon after ER dies. William will automatically become the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge, however.

[QUOTE] R349 Serious question for the Brits here - why do you go along with this and support it? It doesn't bring in tourists; that's been shown So that just leaves tradition But when every single member of the RF has been shown to be average or below, in every desirable quality, why do you agree to let these people continue in that role, with all the money and privileges they have? Do you really see them as superior to you or more deserving?

It's no more expensive than having a President. They don't have any political input and function quite well as representatives of state. We don't have to re-elect them and British people distrust politicians.

We have tried getting rid of them once before, that didn't work out well. If it isn't broken don't fix it.

Regarding the Queen's illness in 2016 as is being discussed. It was wasn't a mystery, the Queen had a bad cold/flu. Basically from what was reported, both the Queen and Prince Philip had come down with bad colds just before the Christmas holidays. Philip recovered fairly quickly, but the Queen was hit much harder by it and developed a bad cough. Back in December 2016, there was a virus going around that came with a terrible lingering cough. I remember this because both my husband and I came down with it and were knocked down for almost two weeks. Allegedly the Queen did not attend church partly because she didn't want to be seen having a hacking coughing fit. While she doubtless felt poorly, I don't think she was ever "gravely" ill. It's likely that at 90 she and her doctors were not taking any chances and wanted to do everything possible to avoid any complications like pneumonia. For people who've said the Queen had pneumonia that is unlikely because at her age they would have admitted her to hospital for that.

I also have to laugh at the people on these threads who are arguing the Queen, and now Prince Philip, have dementia. While I suppose anything is possible, it would be very hard for the Palace to keep that under wraps. Given how much time the Queen spends in public, we would have seen something more solid by now e.g. erratic behavior, trouble with her speeches etc. If you want to see a world leader in the throws of dementia, watch Trump. I'm sure in their 90s they both have occasional memory issues but no sign they have dementia. One of the causes for the occasional confused looks on their faces may rest with the fact they both have trouble with their hearing. Prince Philip wears hearing aids, and there are rumours that the Queen does but only in private. Also it's known the Queen refuses to wear her glasses except when driving or reading, despite the fact she should wear them all the time.

>>If it isn't broken don't fix it.

Isn't broken? People are bowing and scraping to a vulgar divorced American actress with a shady past and a trashy family. And then there's the queen's son who was involved with a convicted pedophile and panderer.

No worse than we could end up with if we had a President R353

Trump has solidified my support for the monarchy. I much rather the Queen, King Charles, King William, Queen George than President May, President Corbyn etc.

R337 -I heard a similar story. The Queen was out walking and came upon someone who didn't realize who she was. They had a conversation and at the end the person asked: "Has anyone ever told you that you resemble the Queen? The Queen replied: "Well, that's very reassuring".

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Camilla The Rottweiler is looking a little worse for wear.

This photo was taken in 2015. I love the look on their faces.

Interesting tidbit: King George V had a tattoo from his time in the navy.

Brit here. Do I actually think the members of the royal family are superior to me? No, of course not. The beliefs about monarchy evolved with the general views of deference, everywhere. The curtseying and bowing the like is just the etiquette related to the institution and not required. I remember reading once a Prime Minister who said when I bow to the Queen, I bow to the nation. As I understand it, when your president enters the room every rises out of respect - not for the man, but the office, which is the symbol of the nation. You put your hands over your hearts at the national anthem. We don't. These are just traditions, unique to each country, that reflect a feeling of country.

I like it because the institution represents continuity and because it doesn't sink to politics and politicians. This is a key distinction that you have to accept and understand. The sovereign does not aspire to the job. It is an inherited duty. They believe they must fulfil that duty and serve and in their way, they do. You can laugh at the idea of duty but to me it's a brilliant thing... a notion above self. Fantastic thing. Do they always hit the mark? Obviously not. But it does inform how they do their job. Romanticize the democratic process all you like - and it is necessary if often ugly - but look at the losers who get elected to office. The succession is not tied to a popular vote, which by definition these days involves ugliness, trickery and division. We may be stuck with 'em, but at least the institution just rolls along, rather than gets gamed. Look at how angry and riled and divided America is these days. Don't get your Yankee up... our system is not necessarily better than yours, just different in unique ways that personally I am content with.

Except for a few rabid republicans in the UK even the monarchy's sharpest critics don't come close to how alienated America is from its head of state. Which every country needs. You need something to represent and symbolize the nation at points in the life of the nation. This institution does that with majesty and pageantry and history. The trappings compensate for a lot when the individual is particularly imperfect, although I'm not sure even the Gold State Coach and Westminster Abbey could elevate the likes of Donald Trump. I think, without the trappings of monarchy, the UK would be a rather bleak country. So there are arguments for and against, but the fact is each country needs a head of state. Monarchy is the structure for ours. I'm not sure what abandoning it would improve.

R360 You know George V wasn't a bad looking man in his 20s and 30s. Although I do believe he was fairly short.

Are Camilla's children involved with the BRF? I hear much more about the Middletons than I do her children.

The comparison of the RF to the president of the US makes no sense. The president is equivalent to the prime minister of the UK, who is not elected for life, does not have the use of multiple palaces and castles, does not have a vast private fortune, does not have months long holidays, and whose job is more complex than ribbon-cutting.

I think it's saying R364 that the US president is both, the job (PM) AND the face (BRF)

And I'd gladly take Betty and her brood back today over Deplorable Don. Off to vote!

I concur. The POTUS is both President and Head of State. In Great Britain, however, the offices are split with the Prime Minister taking on the executive office and the Monarch the Head of State. You know, I'm really tired of all the bitching and moaning about this. That's the way it's been in GB for centuries now and it's the way it's going to be. The rest of the world appreciates your Royal family and the role they play, so why shouldn't you too?

Don't think that I mentioned POTUS in my answer, lots of countries have a President who is only The Head of State, bit of paranoia on the part of US residents creeping in with a few comments it seems.

To most of the planet POTUS is 'A President' not 'The President'.

[quote]Are Camilla's children involved with the BRF? I hear much more about the Middletons than I do her children.

They are not involved officially. Neither are the Middletons. The difference is Camilla's two children look like:

[quote]To most of the planet POTUS is 'A President' not 'The President'.

But recall most Americans grow up on a steady diet of the 'greatest nation on earth', which is the Coca Cola of humility.

Sorry, R368 was unfair. Here they are at their absolute best:

But with the shenanigans witnessed over the last 35 years, Charles/Diana/Camilla, Fergie, Andrew and now Meghan, isn't it wearing a bit thin? The queen will be gone soon. and it will be King Tampon and his queen Camilla.

Charles succeeds automatically so there won't be time to think about it. And fortunes ebb and flow. Charles is on a bit of an upswing because it's turning out so much of the stuff he was banging on about twenty and thirty years ago is now coming home to roost (environment, all that.). He may never be loved but he gets the job and is probably too old to be recalled as King Tampon in any way the harms the institution. It just keeps rolling along.

Shake your grove thang....

Well, that looks natural.

You know, while not conventionally attractive, Camilla's kids are kind of sexy looking. Especially her son.

Maybe it's hereditary. Weren't Camilla and her brother and sister known collectively as "the sexy Shands" back in the day?

R361, beautifully stated. Thank you.

We Brits like Her Maj as we find her reassuring although a lot has changed since 1952 when she was crowned queen, it wouldn't surprise me if Britain does become a republic after she dies.

While looking at those pictures of Charles in Nigeria, I couldn't help but see the huge difference between this tour and the recent tour of his son and the son's wife.

Charles is a real pro. Well dressed, attentive, and respectful of his hosts. Three qualities lacking from those working the last tour.

R348 who is richer and grander than the Betster? Who?? And as far as her being down-to-earth, I have it on good authority that in her younger days she had a fondness for chopping wood, much like her father.

Family dirt.

R379 Many of the aristocracy in England can trace back their lineage far beyond that of the BRF. It’s for this reason that, for example, many of them saw Lady Diana Spencer marrying the Prince of Wales as her marrying down.

As far as wealth is concerned, well the Queen’s wealth is hard to quantify as so many of her assets can’t be sold. However there are many people with more funds than she. The most obvious example - The Duke of Westminster, who owns great swathes of central London.

And as far as non aristocrats - plenty of self made men (and a few women) are wealthier than HM.

I’m not saying that she’s poor! But she’s certainly not as stupendously rich as people assume. For rich royal families, try the Dutch, the Liechtenstein princely family or the Thais.

She didn’t even make the top twenty this year

QEII is far from being a billionaire. These "wealthiest" lists are for billionaires only these days.

I always thought the private wealth was pegged at about 150 million L.

The Dutch royal family wealth stands at half the BRF's. Monaco, Luxembourg and Lichtenstein all rank above the British in net worth.

R385 - The Liechtenstein royal family are loaded. It's quite amazing for such a small country. They have one of the best private art collections in the world.

R385, et al: While it is generally understood that the Liechtenstein's and the Monaco's and the Luxembourg's are among the richest in Europe, it is all still a great deal of speculation. To calculate someone's net worth, you'd need access to their private accounts, holdings, art, jewels, cash, etc that is stuck away in vaults and other hidey-holes, and that'll never happen.

I'd wager that most of Europe's royals families are worth a great deal more than people speculate. They've had centuries to build up assets and hide them away. It is only in the past couple of decades that royals have been held somewhat accountable to the public for their spending and wealth, so no one can really say what any one royal family is truly worth.

It's all speculation.

R387 is right. We'll never know what the Queen or her successors are worth because people like that work very hard to keep that information locked down. Knowing the Windsors and their values, they'd much rather the hoi polloi underestimate than overestimate their wealth. Hearing the Queen is a billionaire would just make people more envious and less likely to keep supporting her lifestyle.

I always read that the Percys were among the wealthiest and oldest families going way back before Henry VIII.

Here's a wiki link

I was lowballing at L150M. The Telegraph put her at L277M in 2015. The Times Rich List at L340M. She has alot. To beat estate tax in the UK you have to give money away seven years prior to your death. Now the deal is the Sovereign's wealth transfers to the heir without paying tax. But no clue if that applies to transfers to others than the heir. If so, and she's dipping into the 277 to 340 M kitty she has probably moved that money already, to be the tax. But pure speculation... it may all go to Charles.

The Earl Cadogan and the Duke of Westminster are some of the richest aristos due to their huge London real estate holdings. Also the Duke of Buccleuch, who owns half of Scotland.

George VI wanted Princess Margaret to marry the Duke of Buccleuch, and if he'd lived he would have talked her into it. The Duke (informally known as Johnny Dalkeith), was horsey and boring, but she probably would have been happier as his duchess than as Snowdon's countess.

At least Buccleuch already had a title (about a dozen of them actually): The Royal Family didn't have to give him one as they did with Armstrong-Jones, which was the ultimate in turd-polishing. Those Jones' lack of status wasn't nearly as big a problem as his toxic narcissism.

I wonder. She was an unhappy person. I'm not sure happiness was really on the cards for her. She lived a jet set style life. I can't see her happily ensconced as anybody's Duchess in a big house in the country. Margaret seemed to live up to her destiny, which was to be badly behaved and largely pointless.

Little George will become Georgiana. Style icon.

Margaret should have gone ahead and married Billy Wallace as she originally intended. Yes, he cheated on her while they were engaged, but so did Armstrong-Jones (who, among other affairs during that time, even impregnated his best friend Jeremy Fry's wife Camilla).

Wallace had been her good friend since they were very young, understood the royal lifestyle, and was filthy rich (he was the youngest of five brothers: all of his older brothers died in WWII, leaving him sole heir to the family's considerable fortune).

She and Billy would have both had affairs during their marriage, but he wouldn't have humiliated her publicly or privately as Armstrong-Jones did, and the marriage could ultimately have begun a successful partnership. The Royal Family would have had to give Wallace a title too, but his family was old-school posh and would have carried it better than Armstong-Jones.

Lastly, Wallace was of a sickly disposition and died in 1977 at age 49. Margaret could, if nothing else, have enjoyed being a relatively young and very wealthy widow. The picture below shows he wasn't a beauty, but there were plenty of other things to recommend him.

R397, while that's an interesting one, it is all "Hindsight 20/20".

Rumour has it that Jeremy Fry's wife was impregnated during a threesome with Jeremy and Armstrong-Jones.

R381 the BRF can trace their lineage back a lot further than most. Philip’s line dates back to the 9th century Danish royal house, Elizabeth is a direct descendant to the earliest days of monarchy. Her claim to the throne is via Sophia of the Palatinate, mother of George I. Sophia was granddaughter to James VI & I. James’ claim to the throne after the death of Elizabeth I was via his mother, Mary Queen of Scots.

She was a great grandchild of Henry VII of England through Margaret Tudor, elder sister of Henry VII. Margaret Tudor was eldest daughter of Henry VII and granddaughter of Edward IV - that’s the one who came out top in The War of the Roses. He was the first of the Yorkist kings. Edward’s father was Richard Plantagenet, a great grandson of Edward III.

Before him came Edward II and Edward I, aka Edward Longshanks. This is now back to 1239. He was the son of Henry III and son of King John. He was son of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine. He was a grandson of Henry I who was son of William the Conqueror. That takes us back to his birth in 1028, a descendant of Rollo the Viking born around 860. How many families can trace their lineage back further than Lizzie?

I may be mistaken but most aristo families claim their lands and titles from after 1066. Certainly the Spencers, Diana’s family, were sheep traders in the 15th century and even tried to pass themselves off as a branch of the far older Le Despencer family. The idea that anyone thought she was marrying down is laughable.

I love R400. Let's get married.

If I recall correctly, Diana's ancestry merges into the royal line through Nell Gwyn, mistress of Charles II (as does Camilla and Fergie).

OK r401 but you’ll have to allow space for my books. I love history, especially the UK, it’s like the most vicious, convoluted, splashiest soap opera ever.

[quote]Philip’s line dates back to the 9th century Danish royal house

His lines but not his titles. Philip had to renounce all his former royal titles in order to marry Elizabeth. His two main royal titles now are Duke of Edinburgh, created for him by George VI for the marriage, and Prince of England, created for him by Elizabeth in 1957. There has always been gossip as to why Elizabeth never named him as Prince Consort, as Victoria did for Albert.

The following is probably not true but makes a fun story. During the extremely nasty behind the scenes negotiations of the divorce of Charles and Diana, the following exchange was alleged to have occurred:

Philip: You better behave, girl, or we'll take away your title.

Diana: My title is older than yours, Philip.

I’ve read that before r404 and while it is quite the dramatic quip I don’t think it was ever said. Diana did not have a title, her father did. She would be aware of the difference between having a substantive title and being given a courtesy of ‘Lady’. She wasn’t very bright but the aristocracy are very aware of precedence and Philip’s title was Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark at his birth. Because he gave them up in order to marry doesn’t mean he wasn’t a Prince by birth and from one of the oldest monarchies. I can’t remember who it was who spread that line but it almost certainly untrue, even dim Di would know better. Her father’s title is relatively new as these things go.

R404 and R405 - the version that I heard was that Diana replied: “You can’t, Pa, I already have one”, which sounds more likely as the daughters- and sons-in-law are known to call them “Mama” and “Pa”.

Absolutely agree with R405. Diana never would've said that, and it is irrelevant. She had nothing to gain by saying something like that. Ridiculous.

I acknowledged that my story was apocryphal but Diana would have been correct. She was born The Honourable Diana Frances Spencer and by the time she married Charles, she was The Lady Diana Frances Spencer. These were the traditional courtesy titles for the daughter of an Earl. Courtesy titles but real for the daughter of an Earl. And Philip's actual current titles, no matter his lineage, date only to the 1940s and 1950s, while her legitimate courtesy titles date back for centuries.

No one remembers "Lady Di"? No one challenged her title at the time.

I think R404 just petered-out the whole thread with a sad little post. Anyone else got anything? OK. Goodnight.

No, R404 didn’t do that, R494 - s/he just used some genealogical terms that went way over your head, which is why you lost interest.

Wish I had something dishy to contribute but just wanted to say thanks for a great thread, I've enjoyed it so much.

I'll throw out a topic: do you think Diana was murdered? If so, who was behind it?

R404 raises an interesting question about why Philip was never titled Prince Consort, as Victoria's Albert. I've heard three theories: Albert was the one-and-ony Prince Consort; Elizabeth and Philip didn't want to dishonor their great-great grandfather by using the title again. Philip didn't want to be known as anyone's consort -- he wanted to have his own title. A third theory is that the title "Prince Consort" is problematic if the person so titled outlives his wife.

Thank you, r413. I've always thought your second suggestion

[quote] Philip didn't want to be known as anyone's consort -- he wanted to have his own title.

is the correct answer. But who knows.

I'm r404, who specifically said

[quote]The following is probably not true

And so don't understand the outrage over my posting that apocryphal exchange, which is worthy of Oscar Wilde. Fun even if not true, which is what I posted.

Although they are both great great grandchildren of V&A:

V&A>Alice>Victoria>Alice>Philip

V&A>Edward VII>George V>George VI>Elizabeth II

Philip is one less generation away (or “removed”) from Christian IX of Denmark than Elizabeth.

Christian IX>George I of Greece >Prince Andrew>Philip

Christian IX>Queen Alexandra>George V>George VI>Elizabeth II

There was one more rumor about why Philip was never named Consort. Elizabeth found out about Philip's alleged serial cheating and, having been deeply in love with him, was crushed, So she named him Prince of England but not Consort and proceeded to have affairs of her own, resulting in Lord Porchester's being alleged to be Andrew's biological father.

Now please, lighten up, don't shoot the messenger. I'm not reporting this as fact, just as a rumor for decades that is easily googled. Personally I think that as mentioned above Philip preferred to be titled as Prince of England which is why he was never named Prince Consort.

But this was the gossip for years and years and this is a gossip board. You don't want to hear what the old gossip was before the Internet?

Philip is not Prince of England. He is a Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

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Concerning Prince Philip and the intentional lack of Consort status: The Monarchy once again ceased being a Patriarchy after the death of George VI - it was all female influenced via Elizabeth, The Queen Mother, Queen Mary, and Elizabeth II herself. Add to those three formidable women the stultifying influence of Winston Churchill, and Phil never stood a chance. Both the coronation and the reign, itself, would be ALL Elizabeth alone. They were sending out a message that Phil would have no influence in affairs of state which is why she entered Westminster Abby on coronation day alone (without him), and which is why she required him to KNEEL at her feet after being enthroned stating his pledge to her (he didn't want to do it as the action publicly showed his status as just another subject). It's why he would not have access to the contents of the red boxes, and ultimately why he complained of being "just a bloody amoeba!" She made him a Prince of Great Britain and N Ireland under duress from him, and did not really want to do it. She, of course, acquiesced to his wished as it to say "Here, have it you big fucking baby!" - that was essentially her attitude during the time. Of course she later acknowledged his great contributions and personal support to her much later down the line.

No one was worried about Philip. They were all worried about Uncle Dickie (Mountbatten), whom they wanted to keep as far away as possible from any "power behind the throne" shenanigans.

^Yes, R420 - I totally forgot to make mention of that essential fact of the matter. But Dickie got what he wanted in part at least years later when it was decreed that some direct descendants of the Queen would take the name when they had no royal title in their own right - Anne, Princes Andrew and Edward. Prince William even used it on official legal documents. Charles, however, is a Windsor alone as is his mother. Dickie did not get what he wanted entirely, but he got that much at least. Phil had completed his mission, and the two of them with another third toasted the name change when it occurred in 1960.

^Anne, Andrew, Edward, and William use(d) the name "Mountbatten-Windsor"

R421 Dickie got what he wanted when George VI agreed to the match between Philip and Elizabeth. The agreement by QEII to include Mountbatten as part of her House's name was simply icing on the cake. Causing the Queen Mum to comment "What's this Mountbatten-Windsor nonsense"? The Queen Mum loathed Dickie and his meddling and scheming.

If the whole saga had been a Soap Opera, then the character of Dickie Mountbatten would have been played as the jilted, sulking, tossed to the side, scheming partial villain of the saga. "You made my father give up his real name and Royal status to appease the people and I won't stop until our name is restored as THE name of the Royal House, itself! Bwa hahahahahahaha" lol

[italic]Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so.[/italic]

Speak for yourself, Gingernut!

Regarding the Prince Consort status - was it not also a factor that Albert was a Prince of a ruling house whereas Philip's was purely in name only?

I've always wondered what the Queen Mum did when she was informed that Dickie was blown up by IRA. Sign of relief? Smile? G&T toast? Popping champagne cork?

Queen Mum was ruthless. When a Mountbatten died and was buried at sea, the Queen Mum only quipped "Well, a always DID like to make a splash!"

Regarding why Prince Philip was never titled Prince Consort, allegedly the Queen wished to confer this title on him several times. Notably she wished to make him Prince Consort during their silver wedding anniversary in 1972 and then again at the time of her Golden Jubilee in 2002. Philip allegedly denied the title because he did not wish to be associated with Prince Albert who actually had an active political role in Victoria's reign. Rather, Philip wanted to be know for his own achievements. However when Philip turned 90 the Queen granted him the titled of Lord High Admiral of the British Navy (a title that is held by the Monarch). Apparently this meant far more to him than the whole Prince Consort title because Philip has always seen himself as a naval man at heart.

R429, how do you know this?

DataLounge royal gossipers don’t typically provide receipts, R430. But you might get lucky!

R430 It's well documented in several biographies about the Queen and Prince Philip. Here are three biographies I've read that contain this information:

Elizabeth by Sarah Bradford

Philip and Elizabeth by Gyles Brandreth

Young Prince Philip by Philip Eade

Also there is some correspondence in Winston Churchill's archives (which you can find online) in which he states that the Queen had raised the prospect of the title of Prince Consort for Philip during plans for the coronation in 1953. It was agreed by Churchill and the cabinet that the Queen could simply issue letters patent to give Philip this title.

Dickie Mountbatten's dynastic plans didn't stop with the Philip/Elizabeth match. He tried like hell to hook up Charles with his granddaughter, Amanda Knatchbull. It's one reason he advised Charles not to marry until later, when he'd sowed his wild oats: Dickie was waiting for Amanda to be old enough to marry Charles.

If Mountbatten had lived, he might have talked Amanda and Charles into it. Charles did propose after Mountbatten's death, but Amanda said no. Which is a good thing, because she and Charles are cousins and that family doesn't need more inbreeding. But Mountbatten did seem determined to have a direct descendant of his on the British throne, and damn any worries of babies with webbed feet.

Inbreeding aside, whether Amanda would have made Charles a better wife than Diana is open to debate, but the marriage probably wouldn't have had the legendary meltdown of Diana/Charles, at least.

Amanda Knatchbull has not aged well (she's 61).

Makes Camilla look 'a bit of a catch'.

Give her blonde hair, and I think she'd look a bit like Camilla. Another long-faced horsey outsdoorsy type.

Camilla's not much of a looker, even after the Royal makeover.

The Queen today. Always doing her duty.

There are other photos and a video in the link at R437

See "Prince Philip: The Plot to Make a King" It explains it all re the Mountbatten angle.

Amanda Knatchbull is a MAN, baby!

She was no tearing beauty even when very young, but she had a nice figure.

However, the fact that she's Charles second-cousin should have put paid to the matchmaking nonsense, IMO. The Windsors have far too many cousin marriages in their background already.

I wonder if the name Elizabeth is going to be retired, more or less. Both Queen Elizabeths have made history and are iconic. Could you imagine the pressure of being Queen Elizabeth III?

If Georgie pulls an Albert Victor, and Charlotte Elizabeth Diana pulls an Alexandrina, she COULD be QEIII.

Amanda Knatchbull bears as striking resemblance to Brian May, guitarist for Queen. Just give her frizzier hair.

Scan through the pictures at R437 until you reach the short video where they do "Three Cheers for Her Majesty the Queen" and she gives this sweet little wave after.

R445- I love her!! She really is one of these people whose smile lights up her entire face. Can you even imagine how strange it must be to stand there while people cheer her or sing to you?

R446 strange to you and me, but she's been getting cheers her whole life.

What I love is that the British National Anthem is all about her. Which is why she stands stony faced looking into the middle distance when it’s being sung. She must have heard it more than any other person going back 64 years.

I bet she wishes it was a cool song like The Marseillaise instead of a boring dirge.

All those prima donna rock stars who complain about having to sing the hit that made them millionaires over and over for 30 years, should think about QEII and what she has to put up with.

She would love it if the song was The Macarena.

It's not a dirge, it's an anthem. Learn the difference. The pictures at the recent unveiling of some banking plaque, this guy looked like he was 8 feet tall and she looks like she is pocket sized, She was respendent in Turquoise with a jaunty chapeau!

Billy Connolly said the anthem should be the theme from The Archers (a still-going radio soap). He said it was just right for sitting side-saddle on a horse and would be more fun at the opening of the Olympics.

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As she has aged, the Queen has morphed into such a darling little nugget.

Who is her favorite child? Her favorite grandchild? Her favorite great-grandchild?

Andrew is apparently her favorite child, if you can believe it. I think when Charles becomes king, Andrew is going to have a rude awakening, as are his two daughters.

Zara is said to be the Queen's favorite grandchild.

Andrew is worth 75 million dollars in his own right. Of course, it helps being able to subsist on the government tit, but it's not like he'll be destitute. Anne's got about 30M. Prince Edward has about 45M. They're all okay on their own, but being typical entitled rich people, they'd much rather have someone else pick up the tab.

Why have the dumbass sons got so much more money than Anne who, unlike, say, spoilt Airmiles Andy, is always out working for the institution?

What’s the source on these wealth estimates?

Royal Family individual net worth estimates

Princess Anne, The Princess Royal, in Edmonton.

She shows us how a royal tour appearance is supposed to go.

Really interested, prepared and able to converse with the recipients.

Anne has a queenly presence. Not saying I'd ever want to get into a verbal battle with her, but she possesses the gravitas the other children don't.

If those estimates are correct, Anne probably has less money because she doesn't take filthy graft like Andrew does. No idea how Edward came up with 40 mil.

Sometimes Charles looks worse than his mother.

R463 wow he has a ton of makeup on and maybe some fillers...a little botox?

And don't confuse net worth with actual cash on hand.

Prince Charles looks as old as his mother!

The Prince Charles documentary that just aired....

Charles and Camilla are beginning to look like twins. She resembles him more than Anne.

Camilla looks like an old leather bag.

I watched it, and while there's a bit of puffiness in the story, it is true that he was an environmental visionary and architectural visionary when it comes to saving old buildings. He gets a bit of a bad rap.

Amanda Knatchbull has been married to Charlie Ellingworth for almost 30 years. She is lucky to have dodged the Tampon King. Ellingworth is a very smart, witty guy - writes novels, writes for the FT, and started a property business that made him and Amanda wealthy.

I’m confused about the posts upthread saying things like “the Queen can trace her line back to the earliest Stuart King” or similar.

I can trace one of my lines back to about the year 800 and probably earlier, if I cared to, so how is it possible that the Queen can’t? Especially with her intermarried into so many royal families, all with their well-researched history?

[QUOTE] she is unlikely to ever adapt to their mode of living, eg hunting.

Please list everything besides hunting that comprises their “mode of living” that you’re so sure she can’t adapt to.

Diana didn’t hunt.

R472, maybe Diana didn't hunt, but I have seen photos of her shooting.

R471 she can. She can go back to the 800s. Read r400 for the edited highlights.

I would I be correct that it’s just the Royal line that she can trace back? Because going back to 800 must mean one had maybe 10,000 ancestors alive at the time, I’m guessing. Maybe more?

If you had time enough I’m sure most ancestors at every step could be found r475 but since the point being made was that QEII is not of a newer lineage than the aristocracy as r381 stated then that is the line given as proof that it is ridiculous to say Diana’s relatively new family line is considered older. Sheep traders when QEII’s ancestors had already been royal for half a millennium.

Woo Woo!!!! Just read an account of Meghan being "difficult." Apparently, she "had her heart set on a tiara with emeralds" but since the Queen's staff had concerns that it might have been Russian, they thought it was not appropriate. The Queen agreed. Harry had been running around telling people "What Meghan wants, Meghan gets." and she even clashed with Catherine Cambridge about how she was treating the staff at KP, and then she got all upset because they were telling her no Emerald tiara. Finally, The Queen intervened and gave Harry a talking to. Yes. and she said, "No. She will wear what she is given by me. Period." And so Harry went with her to the Palace to chose the art deco tiara which really was the most suitable for her.

What emerald tiara was she wanting - one of the Queen's, or something else from a jeweler or a loaner? Traditionally the brides who marry into the Brit Royal fam wear a tiara borrowed from the family, unless they have a family tiara like Diana had to wear. Otherwise, the accept a piece bought for them as a gift (Fergie, Sophie).

I'm curious about this emerald tiara being discussed, and its origins.

Hey, all I know is what I just read in the DM. They said the staff couldn't find the provenance for it and it was generally assumed to have come from Russia. So they withdrew it from consideration and it upset Meghan. Which is why the Queen intervened because apparently Meghan was nasty to the Queen's staff.

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Thanks r480 was just going to post that. WHOA! Juicy details being dropped by Richard Jobson. This is really damaging to brand HazBean - how are they going to spin this? Jobson is supposed to be an ethical writer/journalist.

So which tiara of the Queens has emeralds of unknown origin? That could be from Russia - was this one of the tiaras begotten by Queen Mary from her exiled Romanov relatives after WWI? The posters with better knowledge of royal jewels can weigh in.

Also the younger married royals from that generation have been given smaller tiara to wear: Kate got the Halo; Yuge the small Greville art deco. Why would MeAgain think she should have a large stately piece akin to what Camilla or the Queen would wear? What did she study the royal tiara books or websites and pick out the most elaborate? Everyone knows the Queen lays out a selection she finds proper and they get to choose.

Both the adventuress and Eugenie wore beautiful and appropriate tiaras lent by the Queen. Eugenie's I found particularly wonderful. It was so appropriate and becoming to her ensemble and there had been questions about whether it still existed or had been sold or had the gems sold off separately as it had not been seen in so long. It was one of the Greville bequests to the Queen Mum.

Diana may not have hunted but she was a young English aristocrat and the wife of the heir. She was not going to be frozen out til she divorced Charles.

I read years ago that Kate wanted to wear flowers in her hair but she was told in no uncertain terms that she would wear a tiara instead.

The Vladimir Tiara is a likely candidate. When the source says the provenance of the tiara in question could not be established it is code for the BRF preemptively trying to avoid dredging Queen Mary's notorious rapacity for obtaining her many baubles. Besides, maybe the Queen also knew which tiara Eugenie had chosen and how ironic it, too, has emeralds? Nutmeg must have been spitting nails when she witnessed it. Eugenie also forewent the veil so heavy in symbolism. Kudos to her opting for a very modern twist; in stark contrast to the side eye from HM about Bean's overwrought veil with the--oh my god, all the flowers of the Commonwealth embroidered!

Should correct my post at R481 that some of the info re Meghan and her wedding tiara is sourced from Dan Wooten at the Sun, re-capped by The Fail. Jobson wasn't the main source, my bad. Just wanted to get that out there so people can judge the information.

I think there is a strong possibility that the tiara with emeralds that Sparkle wanted to wear was the Greville tiara worn by Eugenie at HER wedding.

I know the article claims that the one Sparkle wanted had some question as to its provenance, but there is room for doubt.

Given that Eugenie had to postpone her wedding until after the Harry wedding, it's entirely possible that Eugenie had already asked her grandmother if she could wear the Greville tiara and the Queen had no intention of also lending it to Sparkle.

Much of the aristos' mode of living consists of having gone to school together, dated each other and each other's relatives, married into each other families and having grown up as wealthy aristocrats. Even Kate, who is aristo-adjacent in terms of her family's wealth and her education as well as being the future queen (and whose behaviour has been exemplary) has not been accepted by Wills' old circle of friends.

This is how the tiara looks when worn and really is only befitting a queen. It's audaciousness though would certainly match Bean's very high opinion of herself.

[quote] Given that Eugenie had to postpone her wedding until after the Harry wedding, it's entirely possible that Eugenie had already asked her grandmother if she could wear the Greville tiara and the Queen had no intention of also lending it to Sparkle.

I would agree except that in that situation the Greville emerald and diamond tiara would never have been presented to the adventuress for consideration to begin with.

So, does this mean that the adventuress was checking out all the Royal tiaras anticipating, rather than letting the Queen offer her some to choose from?

Presumptuous.

Sounds like it.

One last mention, the Vladimir Tiara is Russian in provenance. It was originally owned by the Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna of Russia, wife of the Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich. She was aunt to the Tsar Nicholas II who was infamously murdered with his family by Bolshevik guards. The tiara had been left behind hidden when the Grand Duchess fled the country until a friend of the family who happened to be a member of the British Secret Intelligence Service smuggled it out of Russia. Her daughter, Princess Nicholas of Greece, eventually sold the tiara to our avaricious Queen Mary (who was never above a swindle or two in pursuit of jewels).

R492 It’s all in how you look at it - we’ll never know what Queen Mary paid her exiled relatives for their jewels but what is known is that by selling them they were able to support themselves in exile. And for every comment that she paid less than market value I’ve read references to her paying above market price as a way to discreetly help her relatives out.

R493 Merely rolling with the gossip and pointless bitchery that molds us prisoners here of our own device.

Whatever the actual story/reason behind the NO EMERALD TIARA FOR YOU! is, there is NO way that the BRF jewelers don't know the provenance of a single fucking stone in any piece, however small. The "it may be from Russia, we can't know for sure" is just complete bullshit. I am more inclined to agree that Yuge got dibs on her desire for her choice of an emerald tiara first. The elaborate one shown above would have been far, far past MMs station, and the outcry, should she have worn it, would have been quite loud and appropriately so. Maybe HM was saving her from embarrassment with a side order of, "you don't deserve this yet".

The provenance of the Greville emerald tiara Eugenie wore was never in doubt (it was created for Mrs. Greville in the early 20th century and well documented). But what had been wondered about was whether it was still in the possession of HM as opposed to having been sold, or the individual jewels having been sold off, because it hadn't been seen in public since Mrs. Greville bequeathed it to the Queen Mum in the early 1940s. It's amazing that such an exquisitely handsome piece had gone unseen for so many years.

R488 Seeing as Kate is future queen and mother of the future king, she can stick two fingers up to Will's snobby friends.

The Middletons are victim of classicism, classicism is still very strong in UK.

Basically people think "how does middle-class people dare to marry into the BRF?".

In a way Meghan, as an American, escape the classicism but face its ugly cousin the racism.

I don't believe the story. I don't believe the hype showing Meghan as this spoiled, petulant child crying for her own way. This is a grown, mature 37 year old woman who made her own way in the world until now. I do believe that she was invited by the Queen to choose an appropriate tiara from several presented to her, and it was an easy going process on her part for which she was grateful. The one she chose suited her very well.

R499 It's not the first time we heard about Meghan acting like a spoiled princess. There were stories even before she met Harry.

I think it's part of her success, she's entitled and believes she's the best and deserves the best. That explains how she married Harry, because most people have too much scruples to act as she did.

In a way they're the good parts and ugly parts of her personality.

Bullshit. Every jewel in the collection is meticulously documented , most by Queen Mary’s own hand. They know what is imperial Russian and what isn’t. The Queen wears imperial Russian pieces all the time, her grandmother purchased plenty from the exiled relatives. I call bullshit on this story.

The Middletons may not be landed gentry but they wouldn't be considered middle class in the UK. Kate went to Marlborough which is not the kind of school a middle class family would be able to afford.

I can see her treating staff poorly. I will say she was under tremendous stress, but that explains it, it is not excusing it. Getting married is stressful. But when you're getting married to someone famous all over the world, on television and tens of millions of people will be watching that multiplies the stress. Everyone has family drama. But MEghan had family drama right out in public. The end result was her own father wasn't going to walk her down the aisle. All of this played out in from of tens of millions of people complete with photos. So, yeah, I believe she may have been hysterical and nasty to staff, and I believe Kate would say, "Hey! Calm the fuck down. We don't do that here."

After watching the birthday documentary about Charles, I have to say the boys, William and Harry didn't seem as relaxed as they have in the past. I have to wonder if there isn't some tension between them because of the wives. If there is, I'd have to side with Kate. Meghan will have to understand that this is not how things are done when you're a member of the RF. She must learn kindness and patience, not just play at it. If Harry wants to support his wife's adjustment, he needs to admonish her himself and explain to her. Right now he is too besotted. I can see her being mean to him too.

If it ever comes out that their marriage is troubled, all the good will and enthusiasm Meghan enjoys from her"fans" will evaporate over night. The Brits are wild about Harry.

What does SSAA stand for? They use it a lot on the Tendrils threads and I'm clueless.

SSAA= she is such an assshole.

Thanks, r506.

[QUOTE] . The end result was her own father wasn't going to walk her down the aisle

Not his choice. The palace establishment must have decided that the grifter father (and his clan) needed to go. It was too much bad press and too awkward to have to introduce him to the Queen.

[QUOTE] The Brits are wild about Harry.

Are they? He gets no love here on DL, with most people seeing his as a dimwit, and not even a loveable one.

R498 the ridicule of her dress and behavior is because of her dress and behavior not racism. Is it so difficult to grasp that we can see right through her and it has nothing to do with her slightly tanned skin color?

R150 It can be both tho.

Some people are snarky because her behavior is ridiculous but other attacks are racist.

You can snark on her dress as much as you want, but going on and on about her nappy hair like some people do smells like badly hidden racism.

I imagine the Queen doesn't loan out tiaras that she wears herself. Difference in station. To be seen wearing a tiara previously worn by the present Queen would be a huge honour. Middleton wore a seldom seen, simple tiara, so did Meagain and so did Eugenie (though Eugenie's was the biggest.). The Queen may well offer outsiders the training wheel tiaras.

Her hair is fair game r511, she looks ridiculous. It isn’t racist to point out how bad her hair looks. It would be if someone said her hair looks bad because she’s mixed race but no one has said that.

Guys, we have 21 threads dedicated to all things MM, Have at it:

Big Meghan fan here. If she makes Harry happy, good for her. Now go think of some more silly names for her, children.

Ugh, I foresee K names for the children. Lady Kaylee Windsor, Lord Kayson Windsor, etc

I'm with R499. This story is fabricated. No way would she behave that way. You'd have to be a complete idiot to behave that way, and Meghan isn't an idiot.

[quote]You'd have to be a complete idiot to behave that way, and Meghan isn't an idiot.

One could argue that point considering who she married

[quote]Guys, we have 21 threads dedicated to all things MM, Have at it:

Translation: I don't want this here... it bothers me... Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys, come on, I want thread this way.... I don't like when conversations take on a life of their own... guuuuuuuuuuuuuuys, come on.... you're ruining it for me....

Not ruining it for me in the slightest. r519. Thread titles mean things. Your observations will be seen by more like minded individuals if you post in those threads.. It is just common sense. Your translation skills need work.

yeah yeah we're onto you, granny. If you were that chill you wouldn't still be School marming.

Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus, come on, guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys....

Marriage to Harry does nothing to clarify MM's level of idiocy. He was an easy mark. She can't be that smart. She only made B actress.

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I think they knew that thank you notes should be sent - if MerchAgain didn’t Harry certainly did - but put it off for a few months to make it look like there were Just.So.Many! that they were taking MONTHS to get through all the millions of good wishes. Because that’s just how beloved she is by the peasantry.

Backfired.

R525 Yes, because A list actresses are always one step away from a Nobel prize.

Case example: A list actress Jennifer Lawrence. Enjoys falling, farting, drinking.

Isn't part of KP's secretary to send those "thank you" letters?

Don't tell me they have more well-wishers than for W&K wedding.

R503 “Boys”? What boys? I saw two men on the cusp of middle age. They haven’t been “boys” since the late nineties.

Dammit, can you take the Markle stuff to one of the other 1000 threads? This is a thread about the other Royals.

[quote]R51 I wonder if there might be a tipping point with Kate's pregnancies, when the public will start to criticize her for adding yet another royal mouth for the public to clothe and feed.

She will be allowed to play with Meghan’s baby, and maybe that will be enough.

I always wonder if kids in big families feel insignificant...like they weren’t enough for the parents to love, but instead just part of a factory.

The only reason I even brought her up is because The Queen & tiaras....

Charles with Kate and baby Louis.

No way that Meghan would throw a temper tantrum for wanting to wear one of the Queen's special tiaras. Nobody else from the Queen Mum to THE Princess Margaret has ever been seen in the Queen's special tiaras - well, no one but Queen Mary, that is:

Queen Mary: "This is MY OWN personal stash right heah! I grifted this shit on my own and it belongs to nobody but ME! Nobody else has ever been seen wearing Granny's Chips while I was alive either, and I'ma hand all my own personal shit over to Lilibet at my death. And after I'm gone, then kiss my ass! MARY WINDSOR OUT!" '

Queen Mary could play the grift game like no other. Bitch had mad skillz!

Okay. One more just for you, R533.

Queen Mary and 20 year old Princess Elizabeth share and intimate exchange before proceeding on with their Royal outing. Queen Mary: "Psst! Lilibet, did you scope that Faberge egg I slipped into your coat pocket back at Blenheim?" Lilibet: "Yes, Granny, and I thought I put it back in it's place!" Queen Mary: "Mmm hmm - well think again, girly!"

The Tiara Gate story is now being reported by "The Times" of London.

Not tabloids any more.

For "The Times" to print the story, it really happened.

Does The Times designate who provided the information? If there were three people in the room, I highly doubt ANY of them leaked a story.

Definitely no courtiers would have been on hand to speak of RUSSIAN, the horror, jewels.

Plus, I do not believe that HM waltzed MM into the vault housing the Hall of Tiaras and let her wander about as if it were Harrods. HM presented a selection.

What it does signal is that newspapers art trying to tabloid HRH, The Duchess of Sussex.

It's what they do especially after Harry gave them the rough edge of his tongue before the wedding.

Oh please, R536.

All MM needed to do his google Queen tiaras or BRF jewelery to find something she wants, like any of us.

r537, fortunately, she is not like any of us.

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Isn't she listed with UTA UK as Beatrice York, special talents: Royal Princess. Ribbon cuttings.

In the olden days, Beatrice would've been married to William instead of Kate lol!

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How does Her Majesty travel between Buckhingham Palace and Windsor Castle?

Guys, we have 21 threads dedicated to all things MM, Have at it, please. This is a thread about the British Royal Family.

I want more Queen Mary and Prince Albert stories. I have no interest whatsoever in Markle.

Although this mentions Meghan, it's a question about the BRF.

Has anyone in the BRF accepted Meghan as family? (Other than Harry.)

R543 - Car. It's only about an hour's drive.

Thank you r547 I've also wondered that. I didn't know if the Queen took a helicopter or train, etc. How does she travel to Balmoral and Sandringham?

R548 - Sandringham would also be by car as it's only in Norfolk which isn't too far from London.

Balmoral, I couldn't say for sure. My first thought was that she might take the Royal Train but if I recall correctly the RT is only used for official business as it's ludicrously expensive to run. I think these days it'd be bad PR for her to use it to travel to Balmoral, even if it were only twice a year.

R549 - The Queen takes the Royal Train to Sandringham, Balmoral and sometimes to Windsor. I've seen photos of her at the station.

R550 - Perhaps in the past but not these days. She flies to/from Balmoral via Aberdeen airport which is about an hour's flight from London. The Royal Train has been heavily criticised for being the most expensive form of transport per mile. It's hardly used these days.

The paps got Kate and Charlotte walking with Louis and nanny.

Her Best Come Hither Look.

She travels to sandringham each year on national rail. It’s a standard photo op. Google it. She used to sail up to Scotland on Britannia but tony Blair scuttled that.

They should've let the Queen keep the Britannia, then after she died it could've been decommissioned. She loved the Britannia, I've always thought that was a shitty thing for the government to do.

The thank-you note debacle was pretty bad. Don’t they have staff that sees to their correspondence? I’m sure Eug has less staff, but somehow her thank-yous made it out before Harry and Meghan’s.

Oh snap!

I want more grifting Queen Mary stories.

Why Blair wished he hadn't made the Queen cry By Robert Hardman for the Daily Mail Updated: 05:06 EST, 27 September 2011

On many of her long trips abroad, the Queen could look forward to the reassuring prospect of going home each night; not to a palace, of course, but to her own small ship with its familiar faces.

Her Majesty’s Yacht Britannia was certainly not palatial. ‘There was a magic about Britannia which had nothing to do with magnificence, because she wasn’t a magnificent ship,’ says Lord Hurd, former Tory Foreign Secretary, whose ocean-going tours with the Queen were the ‘most pleasant’ moments of his Foreign Office career.

As he puts it: ‘She was a homely ship in the proper sense.’

Redolent of another age, the ship was full of royal memories, not to mention Prince Philip’s collection of driftwood, curious family memorabilia and an original set of G Plan furniture. Naval engineers had even designed the royal observation decks so that gusts of wind were vented downwards. That way, there could be no Marilyn Monroe moments with the royal skirts.

The ambience aboard, say those who sailed in her, was a cross between that of a works outing and of a small country house on the high seas.At the end of each day abroad, the Queen liked to kick off her shoes and have a gossipy post-mortem with her staff about the day’s events. There might even be a little light teasing.

‘She wanted to be part of it,’ says her former press secretary, Ron Allison, recalling the end of a testing day abroad. ‘She didn’t miss a thing — she might say: “I noticed you seem to be getting along very well with the local journalists here.” I’d say: “Yes, Ma’am.” She’d say: “And I saw you helping that very blonde lady working for the local Press . . .”’

Distant memories now. To the Queen’s evident distress — and Prince Philip’s ill-concealed anger — the incoming Labour government of Tony Blair decommissioned the Royal Yacht, turned her into an Edinburgh tourist attraction and vetoed a replacement. Ultimately, though, responsibility for the decision rests equally with the Tories.

But what the Royal Family may find particularly intriguing — and infuriating — 14 years later, is that Tony Blair now deeply regrets his part in it. As he tells me: ‘I think if it had happened five years into my time [as Prime Minister], I would have just said “no”.’

A Dylan fan in the palace As custodian of Windsor’s Royal Library, the Queen has some of the most precious books in the world. But Prince Philip has built up an impressive library of his own at Buckingham Palace.

It numbers 13,000 books and new arrivals are piling up all the time. Favourite subjects include cookery books (The Complete Licence To Grill is just in), anything on carriage-driving, books on religion and any contribution to the ‘Who was Shakespeare?’ debate. He enjoys poetry — but apart from a few detective stories, doesn’t like novels.

In a random week of 2010, the deliveries were: A History Of The Board Of Deputies Of British Jews, England’s Last War Against France, The Woman Who Shot Mussolini, The Mastery Of Money, Winston Churchill’s Toy Shop, The Shakespeare Handbook: The Bard In Brief, two books on Archbishop Gregorios of the Greek Orthodox Church and The Alpine Journal.

Nearly 900 books occupy a section devoted to birds, and there are 1,200 more on animals and fish. One shelf is devoted entirely to the works of the lateral thinking guru, Edward de Bono.

At the end of a shelf in the general section I spotted: Hugh Johnson’s World Atlas Of Wine, The Nuclear Age by Jack Le Clerc, Anglo-Saxon Chronicles by Emma Savage, Monuments Of Another Age by Malcolm and Esther Quantrill and The Drawn Blank Series by Bob Dylan. Who’d have had the Duke down as a Dylan fan? The twisted saga of Britannia’s final years began under John Major’s government, which announced, in 1994, that the 41-year-old yacht would be decommissioned when she came up for her next major overhaul. There was little enthusiasm for replacing her.

‘During the early Nineties, the monarchy went through a very difficult time,’ Sir John Major explains. ‘Ask yourself this question: in the midst of the recession, with the British people facing economic hardship, how popular would it have been to announce a £50 million spend on a new yacht for the personal use of the Royal Family? How would that have been portrayed by the media?’

In any case, he argues, Britannia, which cost £11 million a year to run, had been designed for a long-gone era of ocean-going royal tours — and air travel had rendered her semi-redundant.

‘Would I, personally, have wished to retain her?’ he wonders out loud. ‘Of course I would. But one has to be pragmatic about such things.’

In fact, there were some extremely sound reasons for building a new yacht — and it was nothing to do with providing the Queen with a floating home-from-home.

On any tour, the yacht would spend much more time on commercial than royal duties for the simple reason that it worked. No royal passengers were necessary.

I've always been under the impression that the working Royals have their calendars booked months, possibly years, ahead with dutiful engagements, working as patrons of various charities, etc. Is this true?

They should have let the Queen buy Britannia and keep it as her own personal property. It's not like she couldn't afford it.

Years ahead might be pushing it unless it's an unavoidable date such as Remembrance Day or some other anniversary. Official duties will indeed be booked months in advance unless some emergency event comes up they'd need to attend. With QEII's semi-rigid schedule of staying at her different homes, her diary will be arranged around those geographically in order to avoid unnecessary travel.

Britannia was an extremely exorbitant expense and completely unnecessary. Even if HM could have afforded to buy it outright (it belonged to the State) she wouldn't have been able to justify its upkeep. Her personal wealth estimates vary wildly but even at the higher estimates, the cost of paying for Britannia out of her own pocket would have been insane, and the British government and people most certainly weren't going to pay for it.

I heard a couple of years ago that they were thinking of decommissioning the Royal train car, but after doing a cost/benefit analysis they realized it was cheaper to keep it than to pay for all those private cars, planes, and even hotel rooms, as the Queen will sometimes stay overnight in the train when touring in it.

Also, I think they still feel bad about Britannia, exorbitant upkeep or not, so they're not going to take the Queen's train away. Whether or not Charles will get to keep it when he's king remains to be seen. He might not even want it.

Large, ocean-going yachts are insanely expensive to maintain. A famous apocryphal story is that a newly minted millionaire asked JP Morgan how wealthy a man had to be to afford a yacht.

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[quote]R558 Her Majesty’s Yacht Britannia was certainly not palatial. “There was a magic about Britannia which had nothing to do with magnificence, because she wasn’t a magnificent ship,” says Lord Hurd....”She was a homely ship in the proper sense.”

Oh yes. Why, it was little more than a tin can.

Compared to the yachts of the super-wealthy, Britannia wasn't that luxurious. It's interiors were quite spartan.

[quote]R493 we’ll never know what Queen Mary paid her exiled relatives for their jewels but what is known is that by selling them they were able to support themselves in exile.

Why couldn’t she just give the relatives the sum outright, rather than squeezing their last family heirlooms out of them in return? I mean, hadn’t these people just escaped death??

I wonder if the queen knew Eugenie wanted a tiara with emeralds and wasn't going to let Meghan wear one too. Eugenie's tiara wouldn't have been nearly as interesting had Meghan just worn one with emeralds.

I've seen her board a train to Windsor on occasion.I've done it.Pleasant enough ride.

There is no way MM would have chosen that monstrosity of a tiara (the huge Russian tiara with giant emeralds). It looks too heavy and uncomfortable to be wearing for half a day.

Meghan has good taste....that emerald tiara is really too gaudy for a wedding and I can’t imagine her wanting it.

The (comparatively) simpler one Meghan eventually selected looked lovely with her dress. Introducing color (like emerald) into the scheme would have disrupted its simple, monochromatic look.

The Queen does take a public train to Norfolk now. She doesn't care for the new seats on the Thameslink trains.

Oh, obviously not, R571 and R572. Her triumphant sense of style is justly famous.

She looks great in that. She’s not one of your musty-pussied Windsors dressed by fuddy duddy Hartnell. Meghan had already lived an international life and been dressed by top stylists before meeting that whole Brit crowd.

Basically, she’s not going to just wear sweater sets with a Hermès scarf tied under her chin, babushka style, like Big Liz.

If you’re not trolling r575 then it’s time to put the crack pipe down.

She's swimming in it, you imbecile. She looks like an unmade bed.

Then this triumph... international fashion genius there...,

On these trains does the conductor ask Her Majesty for her ticket?

I think she holds up a tenner next to her face and says “bite me”.

Marry me, R579.

[quote]R578 On these trains does the conductor ask Her Majesty for her ticket?

If he can find her.

She’s usually tied up with blowing commuters in the lav.

The Queen has seen so much and the world has changed so much (technology alone) during her lifetime that a memoir would be fascinating. The first transatlantic phone call was made just before her birth.

Is she intelligent enough to write a book...or would it have to be ghost written behind the scenes? I mean, I imagine most of it would just be prattle.

[R2] If it is true that Prince Harry arrogantly said to palace staff what Meghan wants Meghan gets then he equally is dripping in entitled privilege and he is getting less good at hiding it .That information has been leaked with purpose because somebody at royal HQ likely thinks he and Meghan are getting too big for their boots.

I’m sure that I read somewhere that both HM and HRH travel on Seniors’ fares when they get the train to Sandringham. It would be bad form to travel for free on public transport when other passengers had paid and she is famously frugal.

r581 You're confusing the Queen with Prince Edward.

I think Harry is a very emotional guy, and he wants so much to prove he can protect and support Meghan, and battle all the evils out here of racism, and other crap. He sees insults where none exist and he is always worrying and making sure she is treated with Respect when a lot of what he is doing is entirely misplaced and he over reacts to real and imagined slights. It must be exhausting to be him. Harry is probably a wreck now about the baby. I will say this. It is the responsibility of his staff at KP to get those thank you notes sent. Shame on the for being late. It doesn't reflect on Harry and Meghan it reflects on a careless unprofessional staff.

No, it reflects on HazBean r587. They are the names on the letters, it is up to them to write the note and say send this out. I suspect the staff are subtly working to rule and only doing exactly as requested and not all the little extras. Ultimately the person supposedly sending the letter is responsible. Since neither of the ducal dumbasses can seem to check their shoes are clean or tags off of clothing before leaving the house I don’t think they are too bothered about being polite to the peasants.

HazBean made it very clear from the beginning they are doing things their way. If thank you notes were not sent in a timely manner it was due to lack of directive from the Sussexes. Staff follows the course as overseen and authorized by the head of an organization, them.

Between them there isn't more than one functioning brain cell.

God, you all are so dramatic.

Part 4 is up:

I wonder what the petite "most beautiful Windsor" Lady Amelia Windsor is up to. Seems she wasn't invited to Harry's wedding. I don't know if she got an invite to Eugenie's either.

Tripping balls by the looks of her in that snap r593 Ohhhh wowwwwwwww my haaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd!

R568, that would be beside the point - Queen Mary was a Master Grifter. She saw an opportunity to substantially add to the Royal jewel collection and took it. One of the exiled Russian royals was George V's own aunt - Maria Fedorovna. the Dowager Empress. She was the Tsar's own mother, and sister to Queen Alexandra. Her given name was Dagmar. Queen Mary was ruthless about acquisition! Dagmar stayed in London for some time before eventually returning to her native Denmark to live.

This is the tiara which Queen Mary shook her down for - haha.

I remember reading once that Queen Mary was visiting some aristocratic family, and saw a table clock there that had been a gift of one of the early Hanovers (maybe George IV) to a mistress of his, who was an ancestor of this family. Because the clock had once been the property of the Royal Family, Queen Mary considered it as still somehow belonging to them, and she asked for the clock back! They gave it to her, too. (Did she research the clock's whereabouts in advance? Is that why she went to visit them? The mind boggles.)

Queen Mary's bling was so famous that her portrait sarcophagus includes a lot of it:

Whoever posted that thank you notes are sent on directive of the Sussexes themselves is living in a middle class fantasy world. Windsor royals don’t worry about those things, courtiers run the whole show. The secretaries will have the events marked on the calendar and the thank yous are all planned out in advance. All the royals have to do is sign them. If they want to take it a step further and write something personal, it’s bound to be vetted by the courtiers first before being sent. The royals don’t have to do much thinking although it LOOKS like they do when you get a nice little note in the mail.

Which means Harry and Megs were deliberately set up to look bad. Juicy.

Why does anybody say Amelia Windsor is beautiful? She looks like a basic Coachella-loving bitch.