Yuzuru Hanyu and other figure skating talk part 2

Keiji Tanaka is so cute. I wonder if he’ll retire soon? There can’t be much left for him to do now, especially with Dai coming back.

Oh we're already here! Yay. I just posted an update towards the end of the other thread about sweet nervous Keiji - and I was just thinking - just this spring, both Takahito Mura and Daisuke Murakami retired, so there's room for Dai among the older skaters I think, especially because of those two retirements. Let the games begin! (little Tomono may be a threat for the third spot too - and I suppose Hanyu and Uno aren't exactly locks - there's always injury to worry about, unfortunately)

I guess we're here now. I said this on the other thread. I would love to see takahashi and Hanyu locked in a room. We can then observe their body language. At least we'll know how they really feel about each other lol

[quote]I think the fed will move onto promoting the younger Honda sisters (who will be performing at The Ice) and maybe even Marin again if she improves, if Uno and Tomono don't work out. Kihira and Wakaba are finally getting recognized but don't have as much photogenic appeal as the Hondas who also have a very famous sister.

I still think that the number 1 factor to figure skating stardom is regularly winning medals. Not the only factor, but without it, all the promotion in the world is for naught. Look at Hanyu: not signed to an agency, but winning (and charismatic), and voila, a star. Hanyu is not traditionally handsome, neither is Dai and Mao's face isn't an epitome of beauty either. (Oh I know the fans will insist how beautiful/handsome they are bit let's be real that's some flawed beauty). But they are/were always podium contenders.

All things considered, I'd say Wakaba especially has a higher chance of becoming a figure skating star, her skating has tons of personality, right now she's a podium contender (please skating gods let it keep this way) and while stocky, she's got a pretty face. But then again, I'm not Japanese, and perhaps in Japan if you're not a *delicate* female, you won't be a star.

Who is a traditionally handsome top skater? Shoma? Nathan? Kolyada? Surely not Boyang or Vincent.

I'm biased (toward femme twinks - Johnny Weir was my first favorite), but I'd rank them 1 Hanyu, 2 Uno, 3 Kolyada, 4 Nathan, 5...uh... is Tanaka a top?

Maybe I'm forgetting someone but it's not exactly a beauty pageant of men - though they're ok - better than Patrick Chan anyway. Jun-Hwan Cha is beautiful but rather doll-like to be called "handsome" and he hasn't proved himself as a high-level skater anyway.

I find Hanyu very attractive. I had Johnny Weir as my most attractive before I knew about Hanyu. But Johnny comes in second for attractiveness after Hanyu. Jun hwan cha is cute. Uno? Not sure what to put for him. He is like a little teddy bear

I think Javier would come the closest to traditionally handsome. And Stephane. Amongst Asian skaters, Takahiko Kozuka maybe?

I don't think we've got any traditionally handsome top skaters right now, at least not in singles. They all look good, but it's hard for me to judge because they're so young. I could find find a flaw in every single one of them except perhaps Kolyada, but for this very reason I feel like Kolyada's has the most ordinary face of them all.

I didn't think about Junhwan Cha, but I guess from the Asian POV he's classically ~beautiful~ boysband type. There were some photos from Vogue (?) in one previous threads, and if we're talking about photogenic appeal, he's got it in spades.

Maybe an Asian posters here would share who, amongst Asian skaters, would be considered traditionally handsome?

As I said before, it's not good looks that makes a figure skating star. Otherwise Anna Pogorilya would be the most popular skater ever. (I know, I know, Yuna. But she had a ton of medals to her looks.)

Since I can't edit: despite being young and short, I came to the conclusion that amongst top skaters, Shoma Uno's face comes the closest to traditionally handsome.

I don't think Takahiko Kazuka is handsome at all - but his baby daughter is cute. What's wrong with Hanyu, btw? (not being testy - just curious.) I agree that Uno is good looking - I have him 2nd after Yuzuru, but his nose is a bit wide. Other than that he's a dreamy little gremlin :)

R9 I don't find Kazuka handsome either. That baby is such a cutie though! I guess everyone has their own preference but I see Hanyu as one cute and sexy man. I bet cha gets more handsome as he gets older.

Mao and Hanyu have the lanky body and small face. I doubt think either would have become as popular if they were shaped like Wakaba and Uno. Hanyu's speaking ability has also greatly contributed to his popularity and it's extremely rare to come across someone like that anywhere. Winning Olympic medals will be very difficult for the women now with the Russians, who judges prefer, so I don't think the fed will rely on skating achievements. The skaters the fed backs the most are not always the best or the most popular among the general public. The little Honda sisters have been in the media's eye from the very beginning of their careers and appearing in commercials together over Miyahara, Sakamoto, Mihara. It's kind of creepy how early they're being groomed.

But looks and body shape also affect how the judges score the women to some extent. I worry Higuchi and the other Japanese girls will always be held down for not looking like Eastern European ballerinas.

[quote] But looks and body shape also affect how the judges score the women to some extent.

I was never overscored because of my beauty. It's only the maliciously GS fraus who claim it

r9 Hanyu's got a double chin, lol, and barely-there eyes when he simles. With photography, whether he looks good or not, really depends on the angle and expression. He does have those bishonen looks when the photo is good though. Uno's looks are less dependant on the angle of the photo, and his face is boyish rather than feminine, so he comes closer to traditionally handsome.

r11 [quote]Winning Olympic medals will be very difficult for the women now with the Russians, who judges prefer, so I don't think the fed will rely on skating achievements.

There are more than Olympic meals to be won - Mao never won an Olympic medal and wasn't the winner every time. Russians will be winning but there a few places on the podium, I'm sure Japanese skaters will be getting a couple of medals. But somehow I doubt Honda girls, for all their commercials and media-savvy family, will be the ones getting them. Therefore, I doubt they will be the draw that will be selling show tickets.

Oh well. My crystal ball is about as accurate as anybody's; time will tell.

[Quote]Mao never won an Olympic medal

I'm stupid, and I meant to say that Mao never won an Olympic *gold* medal.

I'm sure the Russians won't be getting them all.

As requested, a post from an Asian about who's considered traditionally handsome:

Dai. Javi. Stephane. Shoma soon - currently he borders between very pretty and starting to go onto handsome sometimes. Shoma is what you'd call leaps and bounds above his younger brother. Even if Itsuki loses all the baby fat, he won't be considered Shoma level. It's important to have big, stark, easily-defined features that stand the test of time. Itsuki's features are more delicate; Shoma and the others I listed above are the types that will look good as they age.

Cha is extremely beautiful and will probably age out to be classically handsome. Johnny is pretty.

Yuzuru is the epitome of common. If he weren't so famous, he'd be considered the average Joe. But because he's got slender, delicate-looking features, he can look pretty in certain lights and angles. And he's expressive with his face, so it's easy to read him as charismatic or cute or whatever. But he's got delicate features that require a closeup to read beauty into - the opposite of Shoma - so I don't see his "prettiness" holding up once he starts to age. But he looks decent enough, with clear skin, and it's not hard to look good when standing next to Oda.

Kozuka is what an Asian would consider ugly. Keiji is a common, normal face. It's one of those faces you either love or hate, because it's very extreme. I think any white person who finds these types handsome maybe have a thing with Asian cheekbones or Asian eyes or something? Like how a lot of Asians equate beauty with European face structures. Grass is always greener on the other side.

Mao is not considered pretty, but I guess not ugly. Arakawa is decent. Yuna is beautiful. Kanako is what you'd call "healthy beauty", and has a pretty enough face too. Akiko, nope. Miki's got the strong bone structures that will keep her looking good into older age. Most of the other Japanese girls are blandly cute enough. Dabin Choi is delicately beautiful. Satoko's face is not what an Asian would call pretty in the slightest.

This is just some Asian perspective into beauty, please don't come @ me

I love how this photographer seemed to get the worst of all three - but to be fair, Shoma's haircut is dire and not at all his usual. I think Javier is very handsome - I'd give him the win over the other two, even in this weird shot where he looks jowly or something.

r15 Thanks for the perspective! The one that surprised me was Arakawa being barely "decent" lol. I've always thought she was way above average, especially now that she's older. Kanako, though, I've always thought to be beautiful in a strong, uncommon way.

r16 Javier needs a shave in this photo. At least he doesn't angle his head higher in that weird way of his, which always makes his face look bad.

I know what you mean about that stiff chin-up look that Javi does so much. It makes me feel sorry for him, he looks so uptight.

And I'll take Dai-lovers word for it but he looks like a druggy hippie or a homeless person to me, much of the time - and he needs a hair stylist! To think this was "dressed up"

Thanks R15. So funny how we all view who is handsome and who isn't. For example I don't find uno attractive. I do find Hanyu very attractive. I love his skin. It's so flawless. I do agree Johnny is pretty and also agree with the cha being beautiful.

Omg R19 he does look homeless. But I never cared for him so I admit I am a bit bias.

R17 yeah Arakawa goes under the umbrella of Kozuka and Keiji - if you have a thing for the typically Asian look, she fits that, but to an Asian person, she's just ok. I was pretty surprised to see so much praise for her looks, the same way I'm surprised to see praise for Keiji's looks. A strange combination of masculine bone structure and small, delicate appendages. Certain fits a certain type of catlike look that some may love, but certainly not a classically beautiful face.

R20 It's interesting to hear westerners praise Asian skin because Asians have smaller pores in general, so to westerners, it looks like "flawless skin" when it's just... normal for Asians. And having pale skin is a huge marker of beauty in Asia so lighting and skincare will always make sure your skin looks bright and clean - not to mention that sweating so much helps keep your skin clear, as well as never going into the sun. Also, Hanyu and Uno are both cool-tone skin types, which is rare in that part of the world, so in the right color, they tend to look even more brighter-skinned.

But even for Asians, Dai's long wild hair look was a bit much. He has beautiful eyes and great bone structure but the jutting lips and chin, along with the dark skin color and wild hair, made him look like a stereotype of a Japanese thug. Even now when he's polished up he sometimes looks a little bit like a motorbike gangster.

Physical attractiveness is nothing without charisma. Example: Evan Lysachek. If you asked casual figure skating fans to name the American man who won the OGM at the 2010 Olympics, my guess is that most would either draw a blank or say Johnny Weir.

Hey, whoever posted a link to the insta of the slutty Japanese pairs skater I described: Your link doesn't work!

Ciprès has wing tattoos! I have to admit, I kind of like his trashy self. He and Vanessa James make a good-looking pair. They seem genuinely nice.

R23 Lysachek was a big jerk to Johnny Weir. I will never forget the stupid shit he said. Does anyone remember the tweet he did (I believe it was a response to a follower about Johnny)? Lysachek then claimed he was hacked. I think most knew he wrote that tweet.

R19 He looks high in that photo. That is a horrible picture of him. Yuck!

Nathan is cute here but how does he manage to look girlier than Alina? In any case, I'm coming around on him though he's so reserved I'm not sure he's ever gonna take the world by storm - maybe if he started winning even more (I know he's had a great couple years but he missed the Oly podium) - anyway, maybe he'd develop more swagger?

And I quit following skating after what happened to Johnny. Do you remember any of dumbo Lysacek's trash talking about Johnny? What's Evan doing now - living with Vera Wang as her "assistant" because she took him in like a stray puppy? oh how effing butch of him... At least Johnny's the one with the tv jobs! (and the brains)

A typhoon is heading towards The Ice. Even fans who purchased tickets might not be able to make it to the last show. Boyang is set to debut his new SP and there will be a trio performance with him, Nathan, and Uno. Mariah Bell is also there, if you were wondering what she's up to.

Uno's mom has a public twitter. It's mostly photos of Itsuki. Itsuki's modeling career has taken off. He's now modeling uniforms in a new school pamphlet. You can see the photos on Gran Model's facebook.

Finally reunited. Daisuke x Daisuke.

Uh oh. Hope everyone's safe.

I've been so curious about Boyang since the Orser reversal. I did spot him in the background of this recent picture, at a table with his mother, wearing a pink tee with "Chicago" on it - and his hair is sort of a bouffant (skint sides with lots of volume above). At least Yuzuru isnt the only one who takes his mum to his ice shows, and in his case, he may need to to keep the fanyus off of him (not sure Boyang has that problem but what do I know...)

Lysacek told his Twitter follower the verdict is still out about Johnny weir. Didn't he also say something like only the best go on that skating tour after the Olympics? Basically saying Johnny wasn't good enough. Lysacek is a real jerk.

………….

OMG R31. Thanks though. I cannot STAND that quadless moron. Isn't it interesting that Johnny has umpteen ice shows in Japan every year and Evan is... what? a sewing assistant? a poodle/beard? a Dancing with the Stars "star" who proved he has not once milligram of personality. And that asshole Frank Carroll was recently saying he wished men would skate like "real men" oyyy. This from the ex "extra" in beach party movies from the 1960s - what a he man, our old grump Frank. Is there anything worse than a gay homophobe?

They're are Niagara Falls together R29 - did they get married? Since he's just retired, why would the uglier Dice even be up there?

I'm late to the game, but strangely enough, I agree with everyone's assessment of skaters' looks, despite the diverging viewpoints. Hanyu does have a common Asian face, but it's set apart by his nice skin and in my opinion, a very beautiful mouth. His eyes also have a nice shape when he's not smiling. Dai was handsome when he was younger and is still good looking now when he puts on a little weight; on the other hand, he looks like a smoker, which is a turnoff for me. Kazuka is fugly because his eyes are too close together and his features have all migrated to the center of his face. Shoma is good looking when he's properly hydrated and doesn't dye and perm his hair. I can't decide whether I'm turned on or off by the blank look in his eyes. Keiji would look better with more forehead. Javi looks stiff in some pictures, like he wants to add to his height, but he was (and is) very good looking when he shaves.

Someone here once mentioned that Satoko smiles like Gollum and it was so mean, but brilliant and I can't unsee it. Mao looks like Buddha. Did Arakawa have work done on her face? I feel like when she was skating, her jawline was much more prominent.

R33 Frank Carroll is a bitter, self-loathing old queen whose greatest success was coaching the weakest men's olympic champion in recent history.

Evan is just chillin.

r28 Those photos... " Stand here, Shoma." "Ok." "Now smile, Shoma." " Smile, I think I've heard about it, does it look like this." "Well, not exactly but it'll have to do."

R33 & R36 Well said. And can you imagine how much Frank must despise Brian Orser for being the coach of both Yuna and Yuzu?

Michelle Kwan's mistake wasn't that she left Frank; it was that she didn't leave Frank much earlier.

Ah, thanks R37. So now we know what Evan does these days, he's a "United States Sports Envoy". Loved the photo of him lighting up on his Instagram - wonder what kind of cigarette that was.

And because people are also commenting on Kozuka's baby's looks, I'll join in. S/he is not cute. It looks like any baby. They all look like each other - purple pink with facial features. Some grow out of their ugliness, some don't.

LOL You remind me of W. C. Fields saying "Anyone who hates children and dogs can't be all bad" R41. Thanks for the laugh. (I think she's adorable :)

I haven't posted a shirtless pic in days. It felt like a looong time

r43 well, to be fair, if I had what he has, I'd be posting trashy photos too.

McNamara/Carpenter easily won Lake Placid Ice Dance event, the first International competition of the 2018/19 season. They outscored the Parsons siblings by more than 20 points overall.

R43 The chest hair looks like a tropical cyclone on a weather map. R44 See, I look at it differently. He is a very handsome man with a great body. He doesn't need to look trashy to get attention. Of course, I support it 100% if he's just feeling trashy and can't help himself. We've all been there.

R4 I agree that success is the #1 factor in stardom. After that, it’s the image, which includes the look as well as the personality. The second factor affects the magnitude of your stardom, but an athlete isn’t going to be a star without the first. Even when you think of a more extreme example like Anna Kournikova - people mock her for being famous without having the wins but she was still more successful than 98% of the tennis players of her time

I also agree that now that Javi is pretty much retired, Shoma is probably the closest to “classically handsome” among the top singles skaters. But I think the “flaws” give faces more character and can make them more attractive. Scott Moir and Alex Shibutani are so bland looking that they might as well be neuter.

I have to stop and think about Shoma’s looks, then I think, I guess he’s nice enough looking. Same with Kolyada. But neither makes an impression on me.

I think Hanyu has a weird chin, ugly hair when it’s not styled (and it generally isn’t off ice unless there’s an event), small eyes, a distractingly pronounced adam’s apple on an overly long neck, narrow shoulders and scrawny arms. Yet I find him intensely attractive.

Of course, it goes the other way too. The only thing I can think of that’s wrong with Patrick Chan’s looks is that his eyes are too close together and crossed, but to me he’s so ugly that I physically cringe whenever I see him getting shipped or when his fans call him sexy.

r43 There's another example of an objectively good looking guy who disgusts me.

R36 I’m trying to think of a weaker men’s Olympic champ than Lysacek. Urmanov and Kulik are the only ones I can think of that’s in the running. had fewer world medals but were better skaters.

I think coaching Michelle Kwan was probably a bigger accomplishment, but I suppose that means that Carroll has the distinct honor of coaching an Olympic choker and the weakest, most unlikeable Olympic men’s champion.

Speaking of Kwan, she is perhaps the least attractive female Asian skater I can think of. More evidence that stardom has more to do with success than looks. I wonder though if Yuna would have been as popular if she looked like Kwan or if Kwan would have been more popular if she looked like Yuna.

R17 r35 I think Shizuka looks more beautiful now than when she was competing. I thought she merely aged well, But now that I compare pictures, I think you’re right about plastic surgery though it looks very well done.

R28 That perm looks horrible

R9 Sorry Kazuka fans, but he’s uglier than Oda

here's an article on the Lysacek tweet

R7 Cha must have just started growing into his looks. He looks pretty gawky on his wikipedia but in his Vogue photos and the recent photo of his new haircut, he look beautiful. Hopefully he’ll get the results to take advantage.

R15 I think in America at least, we just have a wider range of looks that we consider beautiful. I often think that I was lucky that I grew up here instead of where I was born because I’m pretty sure I’d be considered fat and ugly in S. Korea whereas here people think I’m thin and attractive, to the point that I find female peers to be overly competitive with me in social settings.

But we probably do value the more classically Asian features than most Asians do. I doubt Lucy Liu would have become successful in Asia.

I think Hanyu is “prettier” than the Asian guys I know (though I would say some are more handsome) so if he’s average Joe I think he’s at least in the prettier end of the range. But I agree that how good he looks is very dependant on the lighting, angle, hair style, and his expression. There’s a few different translations of it so I’m not sure, but I think Hanyu himself considers his face plain judging by that Kenji’s room interview and he’s always said that he’s not sexy.

is it true that being “cute” is as prized as being “handsome” in Japan? While I don’t think Hanyu is handsome, I do think he’s cute in spite of not having the big eyes and it seems that he plays into that image.

R40 this is the photo you're talking about? lol. Too bad Evan doesn't tweet anymore. I could use some laughs.

R48 Evan showing the world what a big jerk he is. I am so glad Johnny is more loved and has more fans.

Hanyu is pretty just like Johnny. The first time I saw him on the ice and the way he was dressed I was thinking he is the Asian version of Johnny Weir! Even some of his skating made me think of Johnny Weir. Anyhow Hanyu is very pretty.

R47 Not going to fight you on Lysacek being the weakest and most unlikeable OGM. I was just leaving some room in case there was a bigger, more undeserving asshole I wasn't remembering. Your description of neutered looking/maybe objectively handsome men like heshib is 100% correct. Hanyu's eyes however, are gorgeous.

Michelle Kwan was popular among skating fans but among the American public who only follow the Olympics? She was respected in Asia but not loved as other foreign skaters.

Hanyu wasn't considered that handsome until more recently when he started appearing in kimonos and performing Seimei. Certain photos of Seimei, especially the one below, this Olympics have made the biggest change in opinion. Before, he was mainly admired for his figure and people would roll their eyes whenever he was described as handsome. Typically, men with deeper set or more western features are popular in Japan, like Mackenyu or Masaki Okada. But male athletes aren't held to the same standards of models or actors, or even sometimes the general public, facially. However, Uno and Takahashi are not perceived as handsome as they seem to be outside Japan, partly because of their height, and Uno is seen as cute more than anything. Pairs skater Shoya Ichihashi would be seen as the handsome one among the Japanese men under normal circumstances, if the public knew about him. Foreign skaters like Lambiel and Joubert are especially popular in Japan because of their looks.

Beauty standards aren't even the same across East Asia. For example, Yuna Kim was never considered beautiful in Japan and not just because she was Korean or Mao's rival. Mao isn't considered beautiful, either. Arakawa has always been seen as ugly and is sadly hated in Japan, so an Olympic gold medal for a female athlete won't necessarily endear you to the public.

R53 Why is Arakawa hated in Japan? I always wondered why she wasn't more celebrated given that she was the first OGM.

There was also Kento Nakamura, I wonder what happened to him.

Welp, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As an Asian person, I've heard white people gush about "almond shaped eyes" and that's the thing Asians usually hate most about their own faces. They'd rather have the European "double eyelid" that Caucasians take for granted, so grass is always gonna be greener on the other side. Asians that think Hanyu is pretty have a specific kind of aesthetic, the catlike aesthetic of a female-passing male kabuki actor (Hanyu compared himself to one). People who used to call Hanyu pretty since before he became so famous are mostly diehard fans who followed him since he was a fresh young teenager, when it's not hard to look good with glowing skin and wet hair. It's a pleasant enough face without anything offensive about it, but nothing particular about it either.

Shoma and Dai are examples of "not perfect" handsome faces. Strong bones, beautiful eyes, more rugged features. Lambiel and Javi are pretty much close to "perfection". Joubert is decent but ... then again, it's hard to call non-white people ugly in Asia.

I wonder if Johnny's popularity in Japan has anything to do with the fact that Hanyu is his fanboy? And dresses and skates like him?

Cha was always a very pretty little boy. Used to be a model, and not the kind Itsuki Uno is. He might have an awkward puberty but he'll grow into a beauty. Not the sexy type that Hanyu is (Japanese people love to call him erotic looking - there's a special word for it), not the masculine type that Dai is, but more like the soft, K-drama protagonist type.

I think Yuna had an awkward teen phase but she has smooth, pleasant features that matured into beauty. Yeah she was not seen as a beauty when she was younger but she's become surprisingly beautiful and I think most would agree now.

While it's true that beauty standards do vary slightly throughout Asia, there are still common threads. One of the biggest reasons that K-drama is so popular in China and Japan, for example, were apparently that viewers thought Korean actresses were the most beautiful of the Asian actresses, and they were enamored with the soft-guy types that lead as protagonists. Japanese protagonists tend to be a little more macho. Dai and Cha are basically stereotypes of their countries' ideals.

R54 It's several reasons. People were upset Mao couldn't participate and believed she would have won if she did. Arakawa lowered her technical content for her free program and people preferred Cohen's style and looks. Arakawa was the first member of USM, and people thought her commentating was too critical. Nakamura is a regular salarymen today. He was definitely seen as the hot one.

Weir was already popular in Japan before 2010 and k-dramas were only popular among older women. They liked the male actors but were not as crazy about the women. Kpop is popular among young women, but not quite mainstream. Takahashi was only popular among older female skating fans and the gay community. His features are close to the ideal in the gay community, but not as much in the general public. Certainly considered better looking than some of the other male skaters like Honda and Oda.

"I wonder if Johnny's popularity in Japan has anything to do with the fact that Hanyu is his fanboy? And dresses and skates like him?"

I've wondered about that too. It seems like the three foreign skaters who appear in Japanese ice show after show after show - are guys that Hanyu has made a huge deal out of being his idols - Plushenko, Weir and Lambiel. I guess Plushenko was a big enough star/winner to explain it, but the other two weren't exactly huge and yet they're still in so so many ice shows, when plenty of other even bigger winners aren't.

I also wonder why Johnny is so popular in Japan. It has to be because Hanyu looks up to him. He is one of Hanyu's idols. If anyone knows another reason or the real reason please share.

R58 All three were a big deal in Japan since their competitive days, long before Hanyu came onto the scene. Ice shows even used to have a bigger foreign than Japanese cast, in Japan.

That's interesting R60. I guess I just wouldn't expect that - you can't hardly give ice show tickets away in the states, since, well, Boitano/Orser/Hamilton I guess. It just seemed to die. Good for Japan I guess - no wonder they're now producing the biggest stars (other than Eteri's girls).

R60 thanks for replying. I wish figure skating was more popular in the states. I see how many shows Japan gets in the off season and I get jealous. But then I think about the 4CC prices and realize the United States doesn't deserve to have those big name skaters doing shows here.

R45 How did the Parsons siblings handle the tango romantica?

How many of the Asian skaters had plastic surgery?

R64 only Oda and Kozuka

Hanyu ain't my type (as far as Asian dudes go, the ex-ice dancer turned choreographer Kenji Miyamoto is right up my alley) but I do find him good-looking. I think he keeps getting better-looking as he ages. He was sweet-faced in his late teens but pretty dorky and goofy looking in his early to mid-teens.

My spectrum is broad. I find Uno and Takahashi good-looking too although neither of them are my type either. I don't, however, find Kozuka and Oda good looking. Kozuka is somewhat average, at best, but also hugging the lines of weird to me and Oda looks like someone hit him hard with the ugly stick when he was a baby (though he doesn't look as fugly--he looks kind of cute even--when he is smiling with his mouth closed) but his personality is the one I like best out of everyone I mentioned here, up to and including Miyamoto, whose personality I also quite like. :) I probably should never be allowed to meet the guy in real life because I dunno if I can help not hitting on the poor guy.

As for others I can think of (male Japanese skaters only, active and inactive) -Tanaka is wedged somewhere between good-looking and average. -Yamato Tamura is good-looking. -Ryuju Hino is good-looking (albeit he does kind of remind me of ET...not sure why). -Murakami is between average and fugly. -Yamamoto is good-looking. -Tomono is good-looking. -Sumoto is weird-looking.

And that's all for now.

I cannot believe anyone finds Shoma "classically handsome." My sides! He looks like a troll doll. Some highly questionable taste up in this thread.

I think being 5'3" is always gonna work against Shoma being taken seriously, as a looker anyway, but I think his eyes are beautiful (and his smile). Even Scott Moir, when working with Shoma, said he was a good looking guy. Shoma went to them to work on his skating skills, and they said, we want to learn from you too - you're a beautiful skater - and so he is :) To some of us anyway. No accounting for taste. I find Hanyu to be extremely sexy. I don't know why - the vulnerability? That's some of it, along with his charisma and intelligence - but most of it is looks. He looks like he just stepped out of my tv screen, a prince from an anime.

I was looking at Machida who I don't think has been mentioned. Some photos are ugly, some are nice. I don't know where to put him - oh, and I agree with whoever said Oda had the best personality of the lot of them. What a lovey. Despite lusting for Hanyu, if I had to take one of them to that proverbial desert island, I'd probably force myself to pick the sweet guy - Oda. (I do agree about Kenji too - very together and wise, but nobody's as sweet as Nobu. Nobody.)

R67 "Troll doll" LOL. Your standard of beauty is just TOO much. I beg to differ. If you gave Shoma human hair, a different nose, some chapstick and stuck his head on a more normal sized body, he could be classically handsome.

I even like Shoma's hair, with the red highlights (except when he parts it in the middle, which I've only seen once thank god). I love watching Hanyu rub Shoma on the top of his head, ruffling his hair. It's HOT!!! even though he treats him like a mother treats her cute little tot lol. He even said he doesn't see Shoma so much as a little brother but more like a puppy. (Hanyu sometimes will say damned near anything - he told Kenji he sucked as an interviewer, WHILE he was interviewing Hanyu - and when Kenji said Kanako was crying from having a stomach ache at a comp after eating suchi the night before, Hanyu said, "Well, she's stupid. I can say that because we're the same age." Alrighty then. Maybe that's what Takahashi means when he says Hanyu is a carnivore and he himself is a grass-eater -- I still don't quite believe him though. Takahashi is weirder than Hanyu.

All of the competitive cast members of The Ice performed one of their new programs. There was also a tribute to Denis Ten. Bell: bracket 2A33F CSp FSSp charlotte 2Lz LSp StSq Boyang: 3T? 3Lz FCSp 3A CCoSp Stsq Mari Honda: 3Lo 2A FSSp 3Ffall LSp StSq CCoSp Tomono: 2S 3F CSSp 3A FCSp CCoSp Aliev: 3Tot 3A FCSp 3Lz StSq CCoSp CSSp Nagasu new EX: 3F3T 3Lz (SpSq) 3Lo LSp Daleman: 3S 2A LSp 3Thd CoSp Mihara: 2Lz3T bracket 2A FSSp 3F2T2Lo CCoSp StSq LSp Voronov FS choreographed by Denis Ten: 3T3T 3Lo 3T2T FCSp 2A2T 2A 3T ChSq? 3Lo StSq CCoSp CSSp Sakamoto: 3Ffall 2A CCoSp StSq 3Lo FCSp LSp Miyahara: 3Lz3T FCSp 2A walley3F CCoSp StSq LSp Chen: 4T 3Lo 3Fso eagle 3A 3Lz 3T 3S FCSp ChSq? FCCoSp CCoSp? Zagitova: 3Lzfall FCSp StSq charlotte counter 2A LSp 3F mushroom butterfly CCoSp Uno: 3S 3A 3Lzhd FCSp FCCoSp 3S 2T 4T 3A StSq ChSq CCoSp

Nothing about pairs or dance yet.

Lots of photos from Sportsnavi.

OMG Thanks so much!! And the couple dancing with Shoma and Alina is gorgeous!! and hot! This is not the first time they've been paired up in an ice show. Let's ship them :) j/k

Shoma looks so sexy/handsome -- and guess who else I thought did -- our own little monkey Nobu!

Hope the typhoon isn't threatening them. Looks like a fab show. Eerie about Denis Ten choreographing for one of the dancers - that must have been emotional.

Sorry for the formatting.

Fans are saying the musical arrangement for Zagitova's FS (Phantom of the Opera) was very distracting and Daniil's made a big mistake.

Hmmm - how so? R73? Don't they have time to fix it? I would have figured she'd do fine with POTO. I actually like Zags better than Med. OTOH, I'd probably be happiest if the Japanese girls rose to the top. The Russians have gotten too much help from the judges, the Japanese too little. You'd think the Japanese fed would be just as strong, if not stronger, but maybe not as good at manipulation?

Zagitova 's SP, not FS sorry.

R74 Sounds of lightening, breaking glass, sudden changes in the arrangement. We won't be able to see a full video until next month but there might be some footage in the news tomorrow.

Oh don't worry R73. I love the deets - maybe someday I'll learn what it all means (bracket, charlotte, mushroom, butterfly...) But it's wonderful to hear what they're doing. Nathan bringing us a quad - sounds like the only one? though I think Yuzu was the only quad jumper at Fantasy on Ice. Throw downs? (you know Shoma could do it but why bother - the dance with Alina really made my night though.) They really cranked this thing up - hope the fans took note - it was sad to hear they had ticket sales problems.

Well that sounds exciting to me R76 - but hopefully if there are big problems, they can fix them. Alina's one of my crushes - imagine what it must be like with Eteri and Danlil, after all the defections!

Oops now I see Shoma did a quad. But maybe not from Boyang? Wonder if he's gonna crash and burn after all the Orser/Chinese fed drama. They love to fuck over their skaters - poor Yan Han. Oh well, they'll learn. Shaking finger like Orser: Never underestimate the Chinese!

I forgot to say that there are rumors Fuji TV has been filming Takahashi in Toronto, so there could be a documentary or segment about his choreography from Wilson in the future.

r71. Zagitova fell? Uh-oh. Somehow it's more alarming than with any other girl.

Didn't Zags grow 3 or 4 inches since the Olympics? And filled out too. Such a beautiful girl - I hope she can keep her jumps. They were better than Med's, but if she goes flaky with them, well, here we go again with Eteri syndrome...

Zagitova beautiful?? She looks like hamster bleee

r81 Reportedly Zagitova suffers from something more serious than Eteri syndrome, namely Osgood- Schlatter disease. I saw a Combined with growth spurt, this season might be an uphill battle for her. I don't know how prepared nd effective one can be if one trains in pain. (I know, I know, Hanyu. But that was only 3 weeks.)

Is her boobage a new development or is that just a padded bra?

To add: Google tells me that Sotskova is 173cm tall. She's boring as fuck, but she shows it's possible to be tall and fairly consistent.

The 16 years old Italian boy is attempting 4Lz+3T+3Lo combos in practice. Let's see if he dares to bring it in competition at Junior GP next month

I think he got a 4Lz ratified last season

r85 Nice! I like how skaters from different countries might have a shot to get to the top. Europe needs a successor to Javi.

Stephen Gogolev's SP is very nice indeed when clean, I hope he can keep it clean while adding quads. (Although I seriously thought he was performing in his training gear when he started.) Competed in Junior Men category, over 80 points. He got one point " Bonus" - Can anyone explain? I don't remember what the bonus points are for.

R86 As it is an internal competition, they don't fully follow ISU scoring rules.

Apparently in this kind of competitions, Skate Canada awards bonuses in Junior Men for "Each jump identified in the program as a fully rotated triple Axel or any fully rotated jump of higher base value"

Sheeeit R184, that's as tall as Hanyu - for a girl! And men have stronger bones and muscles to hurl all that body-length around. Carolina Kostner is one inch shorter than that.

Even with men, it's getting on the tall side, with these infernal quads. They all gonna kill theyselves!!

r87 Thanks!

Geez, the scoring is going to be WILD this season. Nam Nguyen got almost all +4 and +5 for his 4S - it was good but not that good, and from -2 to +2 on his 3A which had a noticeably bad landing and deserved 0 if you felt very generous.

And is that really so difficult to find pants that fit well and don't get the pockets sticking out? He looked like a frumpy grandpa.

Telegraphed jumps but he did sell his program very well.

btw I just realized that Canadian competition is being streamed right now so if you have nothing better to do on Suterday, go watch some falls:

R89. Yes, it will be wild, especially in the first part of the season. Hopefully they will be able to adjust themselves during September's Challengers before GP season

Bear in mind also that 6 out of 7 judges in that Canadian Men competition can't judge at international level. Only judge#2 can. She gave +2 instead of +4/5 on the Quad and -1 on the 3A.

[quote]Sounds of lightening

OH MY, R76.

r91 Thanks for the info, that's a bit encouraging.

He’s just one of the best show skaters, R59, as simple as that. Weir and Lambiel are a perfect combination of skater and performer (unlike Patrick Chan who may be the best skater who ever graced the ice but is dull as dishwater and with an off-putting personality). If not for their jump issues (quad for Weir, triple axel for Lambiel), they could win everything. Plushenko has star power. It’s unexplicable - his skating is outdated, his programs are shit - but when he’s on the ice, he owns it. If he could teach that, I imagine he would probably be the most successful coach ever.

There's some story about the ice shows right after Weir's time saying that they didn't want Weir because he wasn't good enough - well, that was Evan Lysacek's line. The 'real' thing is they thought skating ought to be butched up and they didn't want Weir's flamboyance in their ice shows. No wonder the ice show business died. Evan (and Frank Carroll and their ilk) killed it. Dead. The fuckers got what they deserved.

R95 I think you’re referring to the story about Johnny Weir being “not family friendly enough” for SOI, but he did a lot of shows at that time in Japan, Russia, and Eastern Europe, so not all ice shows are dead. He’s also been axed from Yuna’s shows, but that’s another story.

R96 why was weir axed from Yuna's show?

Yes, I misspoke, I meant the ice show business died in the US. I think Scotty Hamilton was in on the banning of Weir - or that's the gossip. Isn't it weird that countries that are thought of as homophobic (esp Russia/Eastern Europe) were ok with Weir but the US (and I think Canada as well) thought he wasn't 'family friendly' enough but that closeted dolt Lysacek was a-ok (despite being as interesting as a dead tree trunk.) Boitano and Orser both toured - Orser said for 17 years! - and both were gay but I suppose they hid it so that was just fine.

Here I go. I find Hanyu sexy and good looking. This may be weird but I find him very attractive when he is emotional and crying. I don't know why lol.

R95 yes Lysacek made that stupid comment. I guess the great thing is stars on ice messed up when they did that to Johnny. Johnny came out on top and well people ask Evan who? Does anyone know how ticket sales went for this years tour?

The only man I find sexy from Japan is Takakura Ken :) Hanyu type or typical japaneses are NOT

Wasn't there an incident at a Skate Canada event when Weir was competing? I think the Canadians were even worse towards Weird than the USA, but I don't remember what happened.

Voronov's FS by Ten is Kaleo's "Way Down We Go" from the movie Logan. Ten choreographed it at the end of May. Also, I thought they had left all of the English forums but one of those crazy Takahashi ubers is on FSU right now trying to use Ten's death to bash Hanyu and being dishonest about how Ten's death was treated in Japan to stir up trouble.

Oh fuck. Are these Takahashi ubers all Japanese?

What a shame Hanyu hates English so much. I'm not sure he'll ever be safe there. Maybe when he retires... I haven't seen one Hanyu fan say anything bad about Ten since his death - and I make the fanyu rounds, believe me, though I don't participate because even I can't gush 'that' much.

There's a lot of tragic circumstances that have always seemed to swirl around Hanyu, and not just the earthquake. I think that adds to his allure - the haunted loner cowboy or some such meme, that is surprisingly alluring. Maybe it brings out the mothering instinct? or sympathy? and since he's beautiful (in his way) to many people, it encourages obsession. IF he just settled down with a boyfriend or girlfriend and went about an ordinary life, maybe people would get bored and move on. Or even if he just retired to a behind the scenes career.

it sound harsh but i bet some hanyu fans are glad(whatever it sounds) what happened to Ten . I remeber what they taked about him when they that incident on the ice

R101. These takahashi fans that are doing this to Hanyu are sick in the head. I can't imagine if Hanyu ever reads any of this stuff. I hope he never does. To blame Hanyu for Ten's death is disgusting. I can understand why some don't care for takahashi himself. Calling Hanyu a killer or murderer is crossing the line.

R97 he got sick while skating in one of her shows (iirc it was a stomach bug) and because it was in Korea and the local doctors didn’t know what drugs he was allowed to take as an athlete (doping and all) basically couldn’t give him anything, he became dehydrated and very weak, and since it was close to Nationals, failed the Nationals, blamed his illness, Korean fans took it as Yuna bashing, got angry, and, long story short, he was never invited back.

R103 I have not seen any Hanyu fans say anything negative or say they are glad ten is dead. If they are they are keeping it to themselves. I saw the incident and I believe ten was in the wrong. However I am sad that he is now gone. Nobody deserves that.

R102 I wonder if things would settle down to if he got into a relationship. But who knows. These people might harass his partner. He would need to keep everything private. And sadly that means to his fans as well.

R103 That is a gross and stupid observation. Just because some fans hated Denis for the incident doesn't mean they are now celebrating his senseless death. The only people who make that connection are the people who have an agenda and want to bash Hanyu or his fans.

I didnt say that I saw japanese people posting such things. You can read?? I posted that I BET they re glad. Because I saw very mean and nasty things about him then. Like he would have killed someone( sorry ten). But only he got in the way of KING HANYU in training so they wanted to almost hang him. That how it was. So idiots , dont excuse now those japaneses idiotic delusional fans

I dont bash only hanyu fans. I hate all of them. Asians one. All of them are delusional idiots for me. Hanyu's , Takahashi's, Yunas.

R102 I can't tell if they're Japanese but the way they brought up Hanyu in Ten's thread about his death and act like the Japanese media is bashing Ten to protect Hanyu instead of focusing on Ten's passing is exactly what the Takahashi trolls did immediately after Ten died. Ten was the top news story on Japanese TV and in newspapers. Outside Kazakhstan, he was most loved in Japan and thousands of fans have already visited the embassy to share their condolences including Hanyu fans. The online version of a trashy paper mentioned the Boston incident but everywhere else has avoided talking about it, and even at the time, it was often used to characterize Hanyu as a diva. Ten made illustrations of Hanyu after Boston, so it was assumed he and Hanyu were on good terms again and he was still being invited to ice shows in Japan last year while popular Japanese skaters like Oda had recently performed at his show in Amalty. The character based on him in an anime was very popular and kind, and the creators were huge fans of Ten.

[102] bullshit. You forgot what they told about their incident on the ice?I mean ordinary people

Sorry , I meant 111

R112 You are talking about 2016 Boston. I am talking about 2018 and how Ten's death has been handled. You just admitted you haven't seen anything bad from the Japanese and you just "think" that's how they feel. Then you said you hate all Asian fans.

Ten obstructed Hanyu several times at Boston even after Hanyu asked him to be careful and you can watch the videos. By his own words, he did the same to Machida twice before but apologized at the time. Hanyu felt bad about how the incident has blown up and approached Ten (not the other way as someone characterized) to apologize and shake his hand. It was over after that and even at the time, The Skating Lesson of all places was more on Hanyu's side despite pretending not to remember what happened today. The part about the Japanese federation apologizing to Ten, by the way, was not true. Ten wasn't himself at the time. He was dealing with serious personal problems, including a sick father, and suffering from injuries. What is ironic is the only people even bringing up the incident now after Ten's death are the Hanyu or Japanese haters.

Yes, I didnt see any things now BECAUSE THEY FEEL STUPID.. But what they posted was awful and regarding to what some of they claimed THEN they must feel ....satisfaction???? They wanted almost to hang him just because he got in the way on the ice. So now they got what they wished for.

R103 R109 Your trolling and racism might be effective and entertaining if you were more coherent and not as transparently dull. Using all caps doesn't cut it. Please try harder or better yet, not at all.

r115 You know, stop judging people by yourself. Just because you would feel satisfied if somebody you disliked got murdered, doesn't mean other people wish death on those they dislike.

[115] by myself? I would be satisfied if somebody I disliked gor murdered???????It was me who posted SUCH things after that incident? What a moron you re . I am not a person WHO POST SUCH THINGS,TERRIBLE things because someone got in thr way on the ice . So I wouldnt be glad if someone who I dont like died, you brainwashed idiot. You re biased and arrogant. You support such people and blame me twisting my words in he same time ???? I am not a racist i just cannot stand a cult which exist in Asia concerning their idols.

R118 Thank you for your informative demonstration of what a deranged figure skating fan sounds like. Now please take your services to 5chan or wherever people like you hang out.

Both Denis Ten and Yuzuru are victims with these nasty disgusting people. Ten is gone and he would be so hurt reading what is being said. Yuzuru if he read any of this could hurt him very much. Might be bad for his mental health.

R116 Must be an old troll if they love Takakura Ken.

Medvedeva did the same skating challenge as Zagitova. Zagitova was a lot smoother and faster when she did it, which surprises me because I've seen people saying Med has better skating skills, but she was also being a lot more cautious.

NAsty and disgusting people started it all. Yuzury should be ashamed having such fans.

"what a deranged figure skating fan sounds like".... oh you must go to yotube, you would find like VERY NICE and inteligent yuzury fans . Such tolerant ones , forgiving. You ar hypoctire accusing me BEING A BAD ONE, moron

[R121] I am yourg, in my 20s...Just because I like an old actor doesnt make me old. and btw I dont love him, I find him attractive as japanese.. Thats all.

R122 I see now, it was all a misunderstanding. You're talking about Yuzury Hanru, the skater from China. Oh yeah, I agree with you, HIS fans are crayyyy.

lol r118 You're not making yourself sound any better. You never saw people write or say anything bad but they MUST be thinking it? No evidence but it MUST be in their heads? Classic example of projection.

lol [R122] doesnt ? DO i wish someone here death? Do i wish those fans death?

R122 also complained about Zagitova's hamster face. Not just any troll but a bitter old maid.

Gurls, calm down, you’re BOTH crazy! What’s worse, also boring and tiresome.

[R127] hhahaah is it normal thing here? When you re a woman , and you argue with men here so they call you an old maid? YOu think it is an insult here or whenever you live????? Grow up. I know you re one of those " fans" , hanyu fans and you re so obsessed with hanyu

*wherever you live

Oh shit we've got ourselves a loose frau on the rampage.

What programs has Cizeron choreographed?

r128 Excuse me, I'm enjoying it. We rarely get a real crazy like the one who's currently flipping out.

If we were real men we would know how to trap it, but since this is DL we only know how to stand around and say bitchy things to it.

I am enjoying it too.Believe me. I love reading those crazies who jerk off to Hanyu.

Oh shit. It R134 is using a different strategy and is now trying to make fun of itself. Watch out girls, it's clever!

Wtf is going on here? Is there a Takahashi fan nutcase here?

r134 Ah so that's where it hurts? That people jerk off to Hanyu? Poor baby, only few more years to go and it'll stop. Probably.

R136 *passes popcorn* yes, sit down and join the fun.

R137 seriously. Is this person for real?

[R134] wtf I dont use any... strategy . You know what that word means actually ?? Chill out. I just dont know how you can defend assholes , not being an asshole. It is impossible.

R136 I have never seen one of these up close. It is fascinating for now but may get tiresome. Should we poke it with a stick to see what happens or should we just watch it flail about.

Are you 15 years old? You wont draw me in your silly takahashi / hanyu war. what a laugh. Daisuke' s fans are bad as well. Only there re in minority, hanyu is much more popular . I "cannot wait" when the season starts. Those hateful comments

R141 they must have had a hate for Hanyu and typed his name in then found this thread. Sad when these Yuzuru haters think about him all the time.

[R143] Talking to himself about the same must be exhausted for you brain. No one here hate hanyu. Especially me.I like him very much. But his fans are brainwashed zombies. Haters also.

R144 why does it bother you what is discussed here? Is it hurting you? Nobody is hurting anyone here and we do discuss other things as well.

Someone fed it after midnight!!

Storytime: I once literally jerked off to Hanyu. My Tumblr is 80% porn and 20% other stuff including FS. So there I was, scrolling, doing my thing, really close, and then there was a gif of Hanyu doing a 3A sandwiched between two really nice blowjobs. Now I get an orgasm every time he does the backcounter-3A, but I heard I'm not the only one and others don't even have my excuse.

it bothers me what its discussed here? What are you talking about? I talk about calling me a hater of hanyu (and hard die fan of daisuke ) coz I criticized his fans. Here you say that you prefer shoma then yuzuru and you re being called hater of hanyu immediately. This is childish

R147 that was hilarious; helped clear away some of the rodent droppings.

[R136] [R141] typical brainwashed idiot(s) who thinks world evolves arounf hanyu all the time. and anyone who posts here thinks about hanyu anyway. In every matter.

Anything that helps you sleep at night, r150.

R148 not true. Why would you be the only one called out and nobody else? There are others here who do not care for Hanyu and are not called haters. You know what you did. You were trolling the thread. And I bet you are a Daisuke Takahashi fan.

[R151] dont overact , my little queer

[R148] You started calling me out FIRST here , coz I criticized hanyu fans.Not you Dont forget about it. Ia m not takahashi fan. I like them both . YOu should call me rather Dennis Ten fan , right?? But you dont, you start , without any reason with Tahashi because.... he is coming back to competitions and fans of their fanbases dont like each other. What a bunch of frustrated people

R153 You should just leave. I don't care if you're a fan of Ten or Takahashi at this point.

[R153] Exactly. At last. You are ONES who persuade me to whom iam fan of.... And you shouldnt care because being fan any of them, has NOTHING to do with my first post. YOU have obsession who is fan(or not) of which skater. YOu started all of it, not me, so fuck off

r154 That's not how logic works, baby.

As entertaining as the "I-have-no-proof-but-I-BET-they're-satisfied-that-Ten-was-murdered" psycho is, Junior Men's comp in Canada ended some hours ago, won by a 13-yo Stephen Gogolev, followed by 18-yo Conrad Orzel and 16-yo Joseph Phan. Gogolev landed 4T and 4S-2T but fell on 4Lz and popped one of his 3As. Orzel almost fell on 4T but got 2 3As and Phan got a nice 4T-2T but popped a 3A.

Orzel is hot but Gogolev is definitely the one to watch even if he has stamina problems and almost falls on steps.

With Patrick out, it'll be Nam and Keegan in Canada who count, and Gogolev in juniors.

Here's the video of Gogolev, I still don't know what's up with his costumes.

R157 Does Gogolev have UR issues?

[R157no? this is logic. . Stop telling me which skater i am fan of ok??? , moron? And dont blame me for that fan bullshit coz you re obssesed with hanyu/ takahashi . You re boring as hell

You claim you dont care but you behave otherwise.you know that? Yoiu re obssesed You mumble like my granny, When i did read about misha/hanyu/evgenia I thought I d laugh myself to death. jesus what a drama that was for you. but harsh word for Denis ten was nothing. Who cares right? hypocrisy

r159 Yes sweet, you sound so bored, lol.

r158 Not according to Minto protocols. Even the 4Lz he fell on got full credit for rotation.

I forgot about Kevin Reynolds. I guess he'll be a factor between Nam and Keegan.

Overall junior circuit might get pretty decent this season, unlike last year.

If this ice show had trouble selling tickets, I'm a bit worried. But maybe it's just late in the season and the market is a bit saturated with ice shows? (though I heard something similar about the ones before Hanyu's started.) Still, this was Hanyu's 2nd gold medal year - maybe next year, Uno will break out (or somebody else?)

Boyang said in the brochure that the two skaters he looked up to were Hanyu ("because he shows a complete performace on ice. His achievements are always spurring me on") and Plushenko. Not that it should matter but I was beginning to wonder if there was some sort of issue with praising Hanyu, as Tomono recently said Takahashi was his idol - and Takahashi said he studied Nathan Chen to get help with his quads despite Hanyu getting higher GOEs). In the past, Aliev has said the juniors all look up to Hanyu - but maybe not Tomono lol.

Wow for Gogolev, who got over 80 points in his short program. As that British guy said about a very young Hanyu - "wrap him up in cotton wool."

Yes it is shocking.. canadian(hmm russian under canadian flag but still) got quite high score in Canada.

R162 Tomono is from Osaka, so he would be expected to name Takahashi. It's not just a figure skating thing. But Hanyu and Tomono are only three years apart, so even if Tomono was from a different region and under no social obligation to name him, Takahashi would have most likely been his idol.

R147 Enjoy!

r163 Canadian, actually. Born in Canada, Canadian passport and all.

r165 Ah, see, the spreadeagle doesn't quite get me there, it MUST be the backcounter entry.

I forget Tomono is 20 years old! He looks 16 to me - and a lot younger than Uno, who's the same age. He's also 5'3" - the same height as Uno (but a lot skinnier.)

And R166, are you sure you don't prefer Yuzu's knee slide from Let's Go Crazy?

My apologies R166. Forgot you specified the backcounter. I'll leave you a whole selection, including one with a leg kick in the PPS. Hopefully that will make up for everything.

r168 Well, my jeans need a thorough washing right now but I'm not complaining!

R169 That literally took you 2 minutes. I should probably take off a minute for the one-handed typing.

R167 sticking my nose in. I love that photo of Yuzuru! What a great shot, angle. Whatever it's called lol.

Maybe our troll saw this photo and had a complete melt down.

Can someone please start up the other thread again? This line of posting is making me vomit.

R173 I think someone has. If you search under figure skating you'll be able to find it. It's a continuation of the previous thread (I forget the number).

R173 please feel free to post whatever you want. This thread was invaded. Hopefully it's gone now.

R173 A rabid frau went on a ramapage, holding the thread hostage for hours and someone orgasmed to a backcounter 3A and you don't consider that quality DL content?

That backcounter 3A is absolutely glorious.

R176 I have never seen someone orgasm on DL. That was a first for me lol.

Skaters have personal relationships with each other, and not everyone likes the same style. Hanyu is legit good but it's ok to have other idols too. I don't see why some people read it as Hanyu hate if a skater has a different idol. I'm sure their worlds don't revolve around Hanyu that much.

I kinda want to see more same-sex choreography in ice shows. I saw how SOI put Nathan and Ashley together as a pair and they did NOT have chemistry and it was awkward. It's one thing to have a pair skate together but why go through the trouble of putting single skaters together to do a hetero romantic dance? It just felt fake to me. Give me Johnny and Lambiel dancing together any day. Hilarious how they put together the "I don't care about dating or marriage" Shoma and "Boyfriends are useless" Alina, who's still a minor, and some crazy fans are already shipping them.

Apparently some Japanese media dug up the Ten/Hanyu incident while reporting on Ten's death? Some fans, even the Japanophiles, aren't happy about it.

Not sure if anyone has seen this from the ice 2018. Nathan Chen, Boyang, and Shoma.

R179 See R111 for info on how Ten's death was covered by the Japanese media. Basically, only a trashy online article brought up the Boston incident and the Japanese fans were furious about it.

I agree, they need to do same sex pairings. I don't see any of the singles men having chemistry with a woman and it's not about whether they're gay or straight. Cizeron isn't straight, but he and Papadakis have chemistry. Seriously, pair Cizeron with anybody and the program will be smoldering.

R180 I love his personality, but I am growing tired of Uno. Even jump technique aside, his expressions are all the same, no matter what music he's skating to.

R180 Oh dear, Shoma's belt his undone and his zipper is halfway down again. LOL. Gotta love that guy.

R181 I agree about Uno. He bores me but I am not sure if it's his skating or his face. I was hoping for an Uno with more expression this coming season but now I don't see that happening.

R131 He choreographed James/Ciprès SP “Uninvited” by Alanis Morissette and Romain Ponsart’s FS. I don’t think the music has been revealed for Ponsart’s program. There should be video of “Uninvited” later in the week.

R179 That person on FSU was being deliberately misleading about the handling of Ten’s death by the “Japanese press.” If you take a look at their history, you can get an idea of who they support (it’s not Ten) and their agenda. The so-called “News Quiz” they were referring to in “They even made him and his death the object of a quiz. That was really low and disrespectful to Denis memory, his family and the fans who were still mourning. It was appalling!” was not a quiz by the Japanese media, but the name of a quiz enthusiast’s personal blog where they make quizzes on the day’s top news stories. Denis’s murder was one of the biggest stories in Japan that day and one of the questions on the day’s quiz was: What is the name of the Kazakhstani figure skater, who won the Olympic bronze medal in 2014, who was killed in a robbery in Amalty on the 19th? All of their quizzes include tragic events if they make the news. There no making light of Ten’s death and nothing bad said about him. It’s not even a popular blog. There are no comments on it. I don’t know how ostile came across it. Our new troll here also shares the same kind of English as that FSU poster and her friends at GS and FSU. I think we will be seeing more of these types of people on all of the skating forums and DL in the upcoming season.

[quote] I kinda want to see more same-sex choreography in ice shows.

Lambiel and Vasiljevs had a number together

[R172] fuck off troll ;) What they have to do with what i said about some fans of them??

R184 are these trolls fans of Takahashi? You mentioned these types of people would be here and other forums as the upcoming season gets here.

[R173] It turns out a new general FS thread was started after all.

[R187] Dickhead, i havent mention Daisuke until you brought him up. whats your problem faggot?I didnt talk about him at all Troll somewhere else, on your japanese forums and provoke others :)

Look R186 R189 a new place for you to wreak havoc R188!

R184 Luckily and unluckily, R186 R189 etc. is so incoherent and unhinged you can spot its posts from a mile away, even without hitting ignore. It's so dumb it hurls insults at the wrong person. I am amused, however, by its attempts blend into the crowd by calling other people "troll" or by claiming to hate all Asian skaters/fans to hide its agenda.

R185 This program was pretty good, and I hope to see more like it. I think Deniss has potential and has improved a lot, but the program itself would have been better, I think, if Stephane skated with someone whose charisma was more equal to his.

R190 I don't think it will go there. It claims it hates all Asian figure skaters or Asian figure skating fans. Maybe both. I forget. But it is here on a thread that talks a lot about the Asian figure skaters? It has some kind of agenda. Hopefully it leaves soon.

R192 Stephane and Yuzu should skate together.

I think two men or two women skating together would be enthusiastically received from most figure skating fans and might also create more interest in skating in North America. SOI came to my city this May but I had no interest in going because it only had (mostly boring) American skaters doing the same types of routines that they've been doing at these shows for decades.

r189 Welcome back! Here's why people think you're a cray fan of Takahashi: people can't imagine anybody but a cray fan of Takahashi accuse Hanyu fans being satisfied that Denis Ten was murdered. You post that shit, you suffer the consequences, sweets. I'm afraid no amount of protesting is gonna convince people now.

r194 Do you think that a show with more international cast - well, more star-studded cast - would be more successful in the US? If The Ice or Fantasy on Ice came to the US with their skaters, would they sell better? I mean, I can't imagine anybody remaining indifferent to Oda in a yellow suit.

Damn. Got busy for a day and came back thinking something really juicy was going on but it's just some boring cat fighting.

Some of you don't seem to understand correct protocol for people like r110

You either click the ignore button and start talking about other things or you just mock them so that the bickering entertains the rest of us. Thank you r131 , r135 , r141, r146, r147 I appreciate you guys setting a proper example for the rest of us.

Poor Daria brought Eteri flowers. LOL.

r198 Smart girl, maybe now a mollified Eteri won't be going around saying Daria was lazy,

R195 As FS fans, I think we're used to the cheesiness of the skating shows and learn to enjoy the silliness. I don't think this would apply to a wider NA audience, so to answer your question, yes, I think such an audience would view a routine like Oda's with, at most, bemusement, but I don't see them coming back for it.

r67 r69 We're only talking about Shoma's face. I do see the troll doll resemblance though - squat body, stubby limbs, no neck, bulbous nose, and frizzy hair. But he has nice skin, eyes, and bone structure. If he got a nose job and quit messing with his hair, he'd be very handsome from the neck up. Too bad he can't do much about the rest.

r110 reminds me that we haven't seen any ferret face references. He's probably here since the other thread is pretty dead. Though I actually can see the ferret resemblance- he even has a long thin body to go with the small face and no chin. Still think he's fucking beautiful, at least on ice, since the 2017 season.

R195 I'm a westerner and let's face it, I think NA audiences wouldn't be that comfortable seeing men in sparkly pink costumes, hair bows, wearing makeup etc. in the way that is typical of the Japanese ice shows. The male skaters will all have to dress and skate like Nathan in funereal black shirts and slacks.

R200 I never minded the ferret jokes! I could totally see it too even though I like his looks. Team Ferret!

I agree with you R194. Yuzuru and Lambiel should do a skating performance together.

James/Ciprès, Cizeron/Papadakis took a pic together. Lookin good.

I wish they would cast Cizeron as a bond villain. Gay, elegant on ice. But debonair and absolutely LETHAL off it.

Cizeron isn't physically my type but the twinkle of sass and mischief on his face make him so sexy

Reading around the 'net about the latest ice show:

The last program of Part 1 of "The Ice" is an homage to Denis Ten's "Tu Sei", his 17-18 SP music. It was skated by a group of about ten skaters, including Voronov, Nobu, Nathan, Shoma, Boyang, Gabby, Alina, and Takahito. A video that included clips from when Denis was in the show was played. The skaters wore all black.

The Shoma fan who reported this said she also read very favorable comments about Shoma's Moonlight Sonata.

And I know our little-troll-doll fans will want to know that as a great finish to the day, Shoma went out to eat with his dreamy model-bro Itsuki, and they didn't have yakiniku (one of their favorites, I guess.)

It looks like Frank Carroll is retiring. I thought he was already retired.

R187 So far, yes. Check their posting history.

Super mario brothers for the jump battle at The Ice. Uno fell on a 2A4T but landed the second time. Aliev did two 3A, messed up on the second? Uno was declared the winner. Then Aliev picked up Uno and spun him around. The tsunami has hit but it's moving more westward than expected a day ago. Tornado-like winds have delayed public transportation and there were fewer audience members last night. It's also very hot. Hopefully none of the skaters will get sick.

Speaking of our little Shoma, does he have a boyfriend (Kotaro Takeuchi)? Scroll down to the fifth picture - he's lying on this guy's stomach and the guy has his hand on Shoma's chest as they are sleeping/cuddling on a trip to Chicago in 2017.

R210 I like Shoma and haven't clicked on your link, but I cannot imagine him using his genitalia to cavort sexually with another human being, man or woman.

R210

Thanks R212 but I don't read Japanese and can't tell much from the pictures. He does have Shoma with him in his profile picture, but nothing suggestive otherwise. Maybe they broke up :) But I'm sort of joking - everybody seems to be physical with Shoma. Even Dmitri Aliev picked Shoma up and spun him around after their jump battle. Yuzuru usually can't keep his hands off him (not in a sexual way - just fixing his earphones, rubbing his head, fixing his jacket sleeves, adjusting his medal ribbons, etc...) Maybe it's his size -- people just seem determined to touch him. Even Alina, in an interview or something, reached over and put her arm around him, and he looked at the camera like WTF??? But her expression was like a big sisterly one - yeah, I know she's younger but thats what it looked like, a kind of eyerolling thing, maybe because he was acting weird?

Speaking of him, I saw this recent Q&A with Shoma on Twitter - these answers made me laugh:

Q: What would you like to challenge this summer? A: I want to attend e-sport match if I can.

Q: What surprised you about foreign countries? A: I couldn’t play some mobile games I’m fond of because of foreign internet issues.

r208 good riddance. Crotchety old queen. Has he ever produced a skater with an interesting style?

r209 holy crap! Oda actually looks hot in that picture. Has Mirai chunked up?

r210 I tend to think of Shoma as asexual but it's hard to overlook that he has his face nuzzled up to that guy's bulge. Could he possibly be so detached that he really does just think of it as a pillow?

Sex? Is this a new game or a spin position? I will ask coach Higuchi about it

I don't know what to think of Shoma. I think he is straight. I am almost sure Hanyu is gay but Shoma is a little tougher for me to figure out. And he could very well be asexual but the percentage of that is low.

[R213] Jesus, it is sick . stalking those figure skaters and their relationships with others .... Are you jealous??? Your analysis and explanatiosn are a sing that you care for him sor much ;) I remember one here explained hanyus connection to evgenia . And what he feels. His gestures, gaze on ice shows ... it was hilarious. I t was hope that he couldnt be hetero

R162 R164 Among the japanese skaters Machida, Uno, Dice, Kozuka, Tanaka, Tomono, Miyake, Shimada, Nakamura, Akio Sasaki, Hirokazu Kobayashi, Kaori, Moa Iwano and even Sota Yamamoto (who is a huge Hanyu fan) have Takahashi listed as (one of) their idol(s). Most frequent reasons given are his adaptiveness to different styles and outstanding expressiveness. Nearly all of them have been emphasizing his kindness towards everyone too. Sounds like good reasons to look up to him other than there being social obligations or regional alliances to me (they're not all from the Kansai/Okayama region anyway). Takahashi has many admirers among international skaters too (Deniss, Misha, Adam, Julian, Mirai, Lambiel, Buttle, Abbott, Brezina, Verner, Daleman, Balde, Kulik, Davis/White, Weaver/Poje, Peizerat and a shit ton more). A classic skater's skater.

r216 I'm the opposite. I get a strong ping from Shoma but am more unsure of Hanyu. Off ice, Shoma seems to have a much softer personality, seems to put more effort into styling his hair, looks completely comfortable with being touched by guys, and seems completely indifferent to females. I put Shoma at about 80% chance of gay, 20% other.

As femme as Hanyu is in the rink, he seems to have the butchest off ice personality. I say 60% likelihood of gay/bi, 30% asexual, 10% likelihood of straight. sometimes I think, maybe he really is just that secure in his masculinity that it does't matter to him if he wears sparkly women's costumes.

r215 I lol-ed because this sounds like Uno's personality in a nutshell. (And he'd only care if the answer was : game.)

[R162] [R164] Oh, I forgot: Takahashi is also best buddies with Kenji Miyamoto who keeps waxing poetic about him.

R63 [quote] How did the Parsons siblings handle the tango romantica?

that's their Tango Romantica

#DWTSJuniors will be judged by

2-time mirrorball champ Valentìn Chmerkovskiy, Emmy-award winning choreographer Mandy Moore, and DWTS athletes champ Adam Rippon.

for comparison McNamara/Carpanter's winning Tango

R218 I agree that Takahashi truly is most likely Tomono’s idol as I said in r164, and many skaters have been genuinely inspired by him. But r162 was wondering why the younger Japanese skaters always name Takahashi and never Hanyu. There is an unspoken expectation that you name elders or leaders from your region, school/style, or club first, not only in sports, but also in academia and the arts. All but three of the Japanese skaters you named are from Kansai or Chubu. The three who aren’t (Nakamura, Sasaki, Kobayashi) are in their late twenties to thirties. Miyamoto, who is also from Kansai, was a former ice dancer so it makes sense that one of the best artistic and most expressive male skaters would appeal to him. They were both competitive during Miyamoto's final years (Miyamoto retired in 2006) and attended the same competitions, so probably longtime friends.

r225 Maybe because they want to sabe seen as the cool kids and don't want to give the most obvious answer? Also, Takahashi's older and didn't compete anymore (I KNOW) and Hanyu's still seen as the one to beat. If you listen to interviews with music stars, for example, they rarely give their more successful contemporaries as their inspiration too, usually mentioning someone from the past instead.

r223. I know what you're getting at but my question is, what the he'll is a mirrorball champ?

Zagitova had an IG live among other things featuring Aliev, Chen and Bell. At one point Chen talks about Arutyunyan telling a story of when he called Brezina's sister "a fat cow" and Bell added than when Brezinova first came to the rink, Arutyunian told her "pigs can't fly"

But given who used to be Brezinova's coach, she probably was used to that kind of behaviour

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm a big Kolyada fan and think he's a beautiful skater and technician (just sadly very very inconsistent). Anyway, the latest:

Rafael Arutyunyan gave a short interview saying he is leaving for Japan on Sunday and his work with Misha Kolyada and Stanislava Konstantinova is over, but they would stay in Lakewood for a couple more days.

He complimented Kolyada's work ethic and said that they mainly concentrated on quads as planned and he is happy with the result.

Kolyada and Nathan Chen trained together for the first few days and Raf thinks it produced a very good effect. It is possible that they will continue their cooperation in the future, as all the conditions are available for it.

They did some advertising for +Five sportswear while in California:

R227 I should have given more explanation than just post that tweet about Adam Rippon -- there was a season of the ABC reality show "Dancing with the Stars" with only athletes this past spring, post Olympics, and Adam won the contest -- and the winner gets a "mirrorball" and so becomes the "mirrorball champion." Mirai Nagasu was on the show too and didn't even make the final but it was rigged against her dammit - she was the best dancer of the lot.

Anyhow, now Adam Rippon will be a judge on the next season, probably starting in September, which will be kids, I think (DWTS "juniors").

Ah thanks R230

I thought "mirrorball" was a type of ball. I was already thinking about ISU choosing "Mirrorball" as Pattern Dance for 2020

R230 yes it must be kids if it's DWTS juniors. Is this the first time they are doing a juniors? I just want Adam's 15 minutes of fame over. DWTS was fixed for Adam to win. I think it's fixed every season which is why I stopped watching.

I quit watching in 2013 but came back to see Adam and Mirai. But even just reading about how they rigged it against Charlie White (so Meryl and that creep Maks could win) made me sick. You're right - they rig everything about the show. I think they know from the start the order they're gonna kick off the contestants (barring unforeseen things like injuries or dramas.) Charlie is just the sweetest guy. Now when I watched Evan Lysacek on the show I didn't care what happened to him - don't even remember but I don't think he won. I did enjoy Kristi Yamaguchi way back when... I may tune in just to see Adam but not sure I can stomach it.

R222 r224 Oh, thank you! Well, that wasn’t too incestuous but steamier than what the Shibs could produce. I guess I was hoping for something that would make the judges squirm. Did the technical difficulty of the choreography make the biggest difference in scores? McNamara/Carpenter’s programs look more varied and complex with greater lifts. I wish these skaters would stop using Patrick Watson/The Cinematic Orchestra and other overbearing yet vapid singers.

R228 I'm not sure why it is, but when I hear about Arutyunyan saying these things, I attribute it to typical Russian bluntness and brusqueness, but it doesn't make me think he's abusive in the way I think Eteri is abusive. It also doesn't take away from my image of him as a stern but very caring coach. I think it's the attitude of their skaters. Nathan seems to love Raf. Adam has great things to say about him and I don't think Adam is one to mince words or stay with someone abusive. Eteri's skaters on the other hand, seem to cower in fear or her, instagraming their offering of bouquets when they dare to leave her or in Med's case, the departure has to be managed secretly and with media and political savvy. And really, Raf could be more diplomatic I guess, but he's just stating a simple fact.

R234 You were hoping they would follow the Kerrs' route in 2010 when the Tango Romantica was the compulsary dance and went for the full incenst mode :-)

I agree about M/C's programs looking more refinished at the moment than Parsons'. That's their FreeDance

[quote] And really, Raf could be more diplomatic I guess, but he's just stating a simple fact.

I am not that fat!!

R 225 Yes, Kenji and Daisuke are extremely close longtime friends since the days the latter entered the senior ranks and Kenji kinda took on a guardian/older brother role. That's not exactly sth. they ever tried to conceal. Their joint interviews are legendary for all the intense flirting after all. lol

Machida lived in Hiroshima and only joined Kansai university (and before that the same high school in Kurashiki) because of Takahashi. Chubu is not really seen as a united region in skating. (There's no alliance between Kansai and Chukyo university's SCs for instance. Nagoya and Osaka are two seperate powerhouses with no real political ties and with the former being the most influential skating hub in Japan). Takahashi is associated with the Okayama region where he was born (he's from Kurashiki like Tanaka) and obviously with Osaka/Kansai, his residence of choice.

Uno and Kozuka are from Nagoya, Sasaki, Kobayashi and Dice from Tokyo/Yokohama (the latter moved to the US aged 9) and Nakamura is originally from Kushiro.

Only half of the listed skaters (Tanaka, Tomono, Miyake, Shimada, Sakamoto, Iwano and Yamamoto) are Okayama or Kansai natives.

Also they're all different ages as you pointed out. Some of them grew up and competed alongside Dai, others barely started out when his career hit its peak making this a pretty eclectic mix.

Meaning the point still stands: I don't think the majority named Daisuke because of juniority/seniority obligations, political ties, you name it. I genuinely think it's a preference for his style over other skaters' (plus for some of the older skaters he was the most visible role model since until Hanyu came along no one stood out as much). As simple as that. There are a couple of youngsters who look up to Hanyu too: Yamamoto, Sumoto, Sato and Shimada for instance. Shimada cites different skaters for specific qualities he admires about them (his overall favourite is Takahashi, but he also looks up to Hanyu for jump technique and Machida for artistry). Generally not a fan of the artistic vs. technical skater dichotomy (and in my book both Hanyu and Takahashi are pretty balanced skaters with different strengths and weaknesses), but I think those preferences might partially depend on inclinations for specific aspects of the sport too.

Sorry, wrong format in answer R238 referring to R225.

R219 you might be right. Shoma just strikes me as straight lol. We probably will never know. Another reason I lean towards Hanyu being gay is photos like this. He isn't skating. He seems to me that he is being himself. His manners are very telling to me.

R240 I don't think you have to look hard for pingy pictures of Hanyu and if he were a Westerner, I would say 100% for sure. My only hesitance with respect to Hanyu is that, aside from his butchy, straight-dressing personality off ice, I would say that my 'dar does not work on Asian men from Asia. I am wrong about 70% of the time, which is bad and makes for awkward situations to say the least when I'm there.

So no news about Boyang coming from The Ice? Why Chinese Fed? Why must you do this??????

Yuzuru is such a chameleon. In the same set of photos as R240's there's this one. Someone styled him I think - it doesn't look like his usual clothes or necklace. I think he could be a better model than Shoma's brother, personally. He can be so animated and malleable - maybe could be an actor? Or at least retire and do adverts to build up a fortune - I think the fed takes a huge cut of his earnings now. Oh well... I think Shoma seems straighter, too. He's always about the same - not so changeable.

There's an expression that I find hard to translate into English - maybe 'queeniness' or 'flair' - that some people are said to have. The kind of people that just can't keep it simmered down - the flamboyant dancer who's singing and writing and directing all the time, or the genius fashion designer who walks like a model, etc. Asian people say Hanyu definitely has that. It's often linked with gayness but in general refers to irrepressible artistic talent. I think when westerners see it, they also attribute it to gayness. But there are butch gay dudes in the west who also don't always ping so...

Anyway, agreed that Shoma looks more asexual. I would be just as sad to see an asexual person pressured into dating and marriage as I would be to see a homosexual person pressured to stay in the closet. I hope he can stay himself as long as he wants.

R244 Well, aside from attributes of certain performers, I think that Asians from Asia, at least in my limited experience being there for work, sometimes have certain gestures or ways of presenting themselves that Westerners may ascribe to gay men. Once you actually talk to them or get to know them, that impression dissipates. Younger Asian men are also more broad-minded when it comes to fashion. In America, mostly frat bros and gays wear pink or other "feminine" colors. I don't think Asian men feel the same limitations. I might be completely wrong, so people who better understand the culture can disabuse me of these preconceptions, but that's been my experience.

For those who know, how was Continues with Wings received in Japan? To me, it seemed very different from other ice shows. I almost wished the interview segments/Mura's demonstrations were lengthier. I don't know what it was, but I watched it from beginning to end and I almost never do that with ice shows, not even close.

r243 Are you sure that's not photoshopped? The face looks like a different color than the rest of him.

The main reason I think Hanyu is more likely to be asexual than Shoma is that Shoma actually has a social life. Hanyu seems to only interact with people when it's required for work.

r240 I see what you're getting at. My first reaction when I see pictures like that as well as the mannerisms, the Pooh thing, and over the top crying is gay, but then I think that those oddball things could also be interpreted as child like which combined with being antisocial makes me think asexual. Then I also think of Roger Federer who also has that mix of fierce competitor, soft personality, and extreme emotion, as well as Hanyu's simplistic lifestyle off ice and think straight. Hanyu also has such old fashioned manners with females. Unlike Shoma, he definitely seems to differentiate the way he is around males versus females. My gaydar is pretty good with Americans but Hanyu is completely scrambling its signals.

r246 If I understood Japanese, I would have watched it from beginning to end. The format is so interesting but heavily dependent on your interest in the skaters participating.

r236 For the first time in my life, I wish the Shibs were skating. They look like clones with different wigs - there's no way they could create the suspension of disbelief. Amazing that such physically attractive people can have zero sensuality. And then what's creepier, a brother/sister team succeeding with the Tango Romantica or failing and making you think about the fact that they're brother/sister the whole time they're skating.

R243 "I think he could be a better model than Shoma's brother, personally."

LOL. I don't think you need to qualify that statement with "personally." In case you're trying not to offend the sensibilities of Itsuki fans here, I can assure you, as someone who was probably responsible for 99% of the Itsuki posts, that the most attractive thing I find about him is his transparent famewhoring.

R247 I think most of CWW was translated (though not dubbed, I think). Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to understand it either. If I come across it, I'll post.

R245 Yes, I took that into account. I'm talking about the "artistic flair" thing. But yeah a lot of the attributes that westerners use on gay men don't count for a lot of gay men in Asia because they're not afraid of wearing pink, touching other men, or excessively hulking out like in the west.

R247 Asexuality has nothing to do with how antisocial you are. You can be a social butterfly, AND have a high libido, and still not feel a desire to get naked with another human being. I'd personally bet on Hanyu being allosexual, seeing how handsy he likes to get, how much innuendo he likes to drop onto hot male peers, and how he admits to wanting "everything out of life", not to mention wanting to be married with children. You can be a loner and still be allosexual, or else perverted otaku culture wouldn't be a thing. Hanyu and Shoma both treat women and men differently with the whole hover hands thing now, but I think Shoma's "gentlemanly" manners are relatively new because he's forced in more media spotlight and is now being shipped with female peers now that he's older, and it's no longer appropriate for him to casually lean on his female peers' naked shoulders. He used to change exclusively in girls' locker rooms through junior days. TBH I don't think he even registers the female sex when he's looking at them; it looks like he's just doing what's expected, and he's already pretty awkward with most people regardless of gender anyway. He talked about needing a male friend to talk to but that could easily be just because he is tired of having to think about how to act in a socially appropriate way with them.

r250 First time I've heard the term allosexual before - looks like it just means anyone who isn't asexual. Seems like there's a new word every day.

Shoma used to change in the girls' locker room? These Japanese guys just get weirder and weirder as you get to know more about them. Odd that he was even allowed to do that and what could be the reason?

R250 Okay, you need to tell us what kind of innuendo he's dropped about hot male peers b/c that might be my backcounter 3A.

I never heard of allosexual before either and went to look it up. I do think Yuzuru loves touching guys. Especially the good looking ones. He doesn't seem so interested in females. This is how I see things from where I am.

If Shoma used to change in the girls locker room then I am going with he is not gay. He might just be awkward and shy.

Oooh I really want to know about this girls' locker room thing! I don't think that would EVER be allowed in the US. Was he afraid of the guys teasing him? coming on to him?? Those are the only reasons I can even come up with! I mean, even in elementary school, boys have their bathrooms/changing rooms for gym - and girls have theirs. But then, I know Japanese used to have both-sex public baths but even that doesn't make sense in this context because if everybody 'usually' changed in the same room, there wouldn't even be "girls" dressing rooms. Well, I hope that mystery gets explained! ;)

I went into this before and got in all manner of trouble so I hesitate to mention it and will try to be brief. I get a bit of a gender dysphoria vibe from Yuzuru. He loves to be lifted - I've seen it again and again, not just the famous photo at the Olympics gala. I also happened to see on video him doing a death spiral (the woman's part) with some guy. (don't know who - I only started following skating again this year after quitting over how Weir was treated.) Anyway, I've also seen a picture of him being the front part of an ice dancing move - where they move together and the girl's in the front. And I don't think I've ever heard him mention his father but he often mentions his mother and sister - especially wanting to be like his sister. And when he went to Russia, it was the female who taught him how to emote he said (he didn't mention Igor and I've forgotten the female's name.)

Oh well, nothing wrong with that. You can be like Eddie Izzard - and straight! married, with kids I think - and openly dressing like a woman, as though it's no big deal. It probably would be a big deal for Yuzuru - oh how I wish it wasn't. Oh I also remember him, very earnestly on a tv show, saying "I'm a man but for some reason when I watch Johnny Weir skating, I find it so beautiful." The innocense of that statement, from an adult, well, it's interesting. If he's gay, he'd know damned well why he found him beautiful lol. But I need to hush. Oh and I agree with the poster upthread who says that it's sort of un-gay of him to be so nervous around women - most gays I know are very comfortable with women pals but Yuzuru seems hyper-careful. Oh the poor guy - I need to stop analyzing but he IS fascinating.

We're all different - hell, I think we're all weird, if you dig down deep enough. Poor Yuzu has to live life over-exposed. I wish he could be exactly what he wants to be, in every way, but I have a feeling he feels he has to hide whatever it is he truly wants, at least personally. He has said he now wants to skate HIS way because he's done with achieving (well other than the 4A, so I look forward to seeing the innovator, the "John Curry" in him, I know it's there.)

* shit - I misspelled innocence. I can't post anymore without screwing it up... I'll try to abstain from the analysis but it seemed the thread was leaning that way anyway and I couldn't resist. People fascinate me, in all their flavors. I can't wait to see how Shoma and Yuzuru go forward - they're particularly fascinating among skaters, to me, anyway. Maybe some of it is the Asian culture which I don't relate to (and probably misunderstand most dreadfully.) Hyper-fey Nobu is another one, with the 3 kids. WTH?

R254 You can say whatever the hell you want. That's why this thread was created. No need to apologize.

Oh thank you R254. I was worried I was gonna get banned. For me, it's irresistible trying to figure out what makes these phenomenal athletes tick - well, all artists - and for that matter, everybody else, and we have so much data on Yuzu, yet can't suss him out - yet.

Except for Trollsuke, who can die in a greasefire, but if it does, I will sincerely mourn its death and all the passion and energy it brought to this thread.

LOL... I started wondering if that grammar-challenged (probably foreign) troll found this thread by google searching for the man in the title of our thread. So that person must routinely look for mentions of his name to go attack, wherever that might take them (and in whatever language they can mangle through). Nevertheless, considering how sensitive people are, I don't think we could even talk about the biggest name in skating, especially this year, without being chastized to death, unless his name WAS in the title of the thread. Like, shut up fanyus, the 10th best junior dance pair's coach change is what's really important. And on a gay board lol!! Let's hear it for the boyz (and the bois)! Preferably in luscious detail!

[R243] That's a PS manip. The image below, however, is authentic.

[R245] Although I can't speak for everyone, being an Asian who grew up in Asia and is still living there and don't have plans to voluntarily live anywhere else, your impression rings quite true to me. :) As a personal example, my dad loves wearing ladies' nylon ankle stockings with his walking shoes instead of cotton socks to go out cos they're really comfy, airy, dry easily and cheap. He saw my mom wearing them and decided he loved them when he tried a pair on and now he's taken over her entire collection, leaving my mom with nothing but her one pair of elmo-print cotton socks.

I find those nylon sock my dad now sports looking very neutral on his father manly pair of legs, lol.

R260, I find that story about your parents weirdly cute, I don't know if it's the Elmo mention, or your father's ability to put comfort and practicality before any kind of social hang-up about "woman's" clothing...

R260 Yup, what made me think of the pink thing was that the Japanese father of a friend of mine went around wearing a pink velour track suit that his mother had rejected as "too loud." He thought it was comfortable and didn't understand the fuss. Otherwise, he's a pretty straightlaced physician who wears suits to the beach.

Hanyu and this interviewer should get a room already.

Wait, I just realized, that's Charlie White! LOL.

[261] Those socks are creepy. It has Elmo's face printed on the heels so if my mom were sitting on a chair and weren't wearing shoes, you'd have a pair of creepy-ass Elmo faces starting back at you if you were somewhere behind her.

Asian Open Junior entries

1 JANG ELLIOT TPE 1

2 YEH Che-Yu TPE 1

3 LUENG HO YU HKG 2

4 MA NAOKI HKG 2

5 APOLIANTO Muhammad Dwi Rizqy INA 3

6 PRATAMA Calvin INA 3

7 AMAL RAJ ABHIJITH IND 4

8 NAIR VYSHNAV IND 4

9 KAGIYAMA YUMA JPN 5

10 TSUBOI TATSUYA JPN 5

11 HSIEH Nicholas USA 6

Never heard of any of them! But some of you seem to know every Asian skater not even their mother could remember. So maybe you have heard some of them

[R258] I dont care about Daisuke . I havent event watched FS then when he was competing. I am familiar with only one his program actually . You call me a hater because you cannot stand some particular skater coz his fans hate on yuzuru. Is that normal? The problem is I dont hate Hanyu. So get off me please. And you re surprised that I have no respect for people like you????????????You re sick . Is that Golden skate? Get a life. I am a woman, so I find your behaviour laughable. I know you LOVE Hanyu so much but please dont call me a troll co you hate some skater

And iam into ice dancing and pairs rather then singles. I dont care much for male singles,female even less. I just commented on accident from boston beetween hanyu and ten. And you felt so touched because i criticed hanyus fans. So you. You started trollng me , calling me daisuke fan coz you dont like what i post , and Dai fans get on your nervers posting what they do so I must be one of them right??? Pure troll crap. You are banned from golden skate? I 'd swear you are.

With Hanyu I don't think he's nervous around Females. I don't think he is interested in them. I see him very interested in the guys though especially cute ones. That video with the interview with Hanyu lol. They did look like they were saying lets go somewhere private later.

Dai troll I can't speak for anyone else. I don't care for Takahashi. I think he is as crazy as his crazy fans and yes I think he deserves some blame for his fans acting so cruel and unbelievably obsessed with the two time Olympic gold medalist

R259 that's exactly what this troll did. They searched Hanyu and found this thread. They claim they like Hanyu. I don't believe that for one second. The posts say otherwise.

Sui/Han withdrawn from both GPs

R271 I don't follow pairs as much as singles. Why did they withdraw? I have watched some videos of their past performances. I think they are beautiful.

r271 Pairs field this year is a wasteland, with Sui/Han gone it's a desert. Zabijako/Ebert are gonna win both of their GPs, boring. Finland Cup lost Sui/Han then and Seguin/Bilodeau - who are they going to invite in their stead? I can't believe the most exciting Pair there is going to be Ryom/Kim and that I'll be rooting for North Korea. Situation at NHK is only marginally better. Can Morgan/Cipres unretire please?

R271 I guess injury. She had a stress fracture in the run up of Olympics. They skipped Worlds. I think she just returned to ice.

Yu/Zhang are also out of GP because she is injured. Only Peng/Jin left and she can't land a jump to save her life. But if she lands them, they are beautiful.

GP in Pairs is a mess. Yu/Zhang, Sui/Han, Seguin/Bilodeau, the second French pair all need to be replaced. France and Finland GPs have 3 spots available out of 8

R273 Morgan/Cipres will compete this season. They are assigned to Skate Canada and Internatiounaux de France

Gosh I didn't realize Sui/Han were in both zzzzzZabjako/Enbert's GPs.

The reserves list for Pairs should be

Stellato & Bartholomay USA (they would have likely got the Skate America host pick but they will now probably get a second spot on their own)

Ruest & Wolfe CAN (already have Skate Canada)

Hase & Seegert GER

Lu & Mitrofanov USA

Walsch & Michaud CAN (already have Skate Canada)

Pfund & Santillan USA

Suzaki & Kihara JPN (already have NHK)

Barquero & Maestru ESP

Mingyang ZHANG / Bowen SONG CHN (still together?)

Natasha PURICH / Davin PORTZ CAN

LOL

[R270} I didnt search anything you idiot. I ve been reading figure skating threads HERE for long time here....YOu just started another topic and post here Is it my fault????NO. I am able to post here , dumbass because DATLAOUNGE UNBLOCKED posting comments here lately. ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT???? THATS WHY I STARTED POSTING HERE... NOT BECAUSE DAISUKE IS BACK AND I AM HIS FAN AND I MUST TROLL HANYU OBSSESED FANS LIKE YOU INSTEAD. GET A LIFE FOR ONCE AND STOP LIVING TWIITER LIFE

Wow, r276 is mad, lol.

r266 I actually recognize th he name Tatsuya Tsuboi, and I'm not even Asian. Must have been on JGP last season. But his name is the only thing I recognize, I don't remember his skating.

r275 I don't recognize ANY of those pairs (granted, I don't follow pairs beyond the top ones). The situation is BAD.

R277. I know we shouldn't feed the troll but it's fascinating. I have questions that only it knows. Like why is it posting the season Dai is returning? Why did it bring up Twitter? Is it a troll from Twitter? The timing is what's weird about all this.

[R278] Because they UBLOCKED commenting here!.! I am not native english speaker for sure , but do i speak in russian?

[R277] I am not mad, only irritated by morons here . Little more trolling , please.

[R278] and because you bring twitter stuff ALL THE TIME HERE ..Are you retarted? anyway go back there and hate on particular skaters all the time if you want . And dont make me to stop reacting on such comments like those ones about Dennis Ten from few years back . Show some respect to him He is the victim..... But all you do is mumbling some shit about hanyu and dai if anyone care ( only you)

How come the psycho gets unblocked and I don't? If I change browser I'm as blocked as ever.

[R287] i am a woman, dumbhead. i am not a psycho. Go to you twitter world. But I bet you re banned there as well. Datalounge WAS BLOCKED , i mean when i found thit site it was, i dunno how was it before.You had to register by paying some money to post here. Lately they unblocked posting. Changing browser could not help , why would it? I couldnt write on any browser

R281 I think that when you change PC or clear your cache, the count starts all over again and you need 10 days of visiting before being allowed to comment

Geez, I had trouble understanding our resident bridge dweller so I put one of its posts through google translate. Thought I'd share: "Please like me. I am crippled by loneliness and insecurity because people think I'm a troll when I'm just an abnormally large, hirsute woman who wields a spiky club and lives under a bridge. I ate a young child yesterday and its parents seemed so annoyed, even when I explained that I was just hungry. People can be so unfair. So please stop calling me a troll. You've never even met me. Do I type troll like DLers type fat? How do I get some respect on this forum? Do I "present hole" as some have suggested? I just want to fit in, please help.

r283 Ah, thanks. They should have kept the block, we would have avoided that nut and most likely the bracelet idiocy.

[R283] stop lying .. I have been her for a very long time ..And i was not able to post . Commenting was blocked " You dont have permisssion to post" blablabla/ cache or different pc couldnt help

She'll we explain to r286 how computers work?

... Nah, that would be off topic, lol.

[R284] oh common, stop pretendng that you post in such distinctive languuage

[R287] I know what you mean but what is what you mean got to do with it ???YYou cannot post here if you re not registered (now now of course)!!How computer work doesnt change anything. in that case

We might be dealing with more than one daitroll. Either that or they have several personalities

To Daitroll. Is Ten a victim? Yes of course. I believe that Hanyu was also a victim of Ten when he was interrupting his practice. From my understanding they worked things out. And ten did not deserve what happened to him.

R288 If you are not registered (and pay for it)

- you can't post in "peak time" which happended yesterday for some hours but I didn't happen in previous days

- you can't post if you are not a "frequent" visitor. I think it's either 7 or 10 days of visits to Datalounge to get classified as frequent. You can check your number of visits count under "settings" on the top bar of datalounge. If you clear your cache, the count you see under "settings" starts all over from 0.

I am not registered and I was able to post last week as usual apart from a couple of hours yesterday when I got the "no permission blah blah" message because it was "peak time"

r288 Honestly, I swear to god, I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. I'm trying to make effort and make sense of your sentences but it's just not possible.

Oh well.

Quiz: 1) who's hotter? a)Cipres or b)Cizeron 2) Who's more gay? a)Hanyu or b)Uno 3) Who'll be a star? a)Honda or b)Higuchi 4) Who's more annoying? a) Zhou or b)Ge

{R289] Ok, YOu can call me daitroll , but I will make you call back- FAGGOT ok? Agree? Both names are not thrue for us, but if you insist on lying ..Because you re liar

R289 What makes you think there's more than one? You can get rid of the cray with the click of one button.

R238 When you said Chubu is not united, did you mean Chubu and Kansai are not united? Chukyo is in Chubu (Nagoya/Toyota) but Kandai is in Kansai (Osaka).

Uno and Takahashi are both in USM. Dice Murakami and Takahashi have shared two coaches (Nagamitsu and Morozov), although I believe both skaters have always looked up to Takahashi. As you know, Kozuka’s grandfather established the Aichi skating league, the Kozuka trophy, and the first Aichi skating rink in Nagoya, where Kozuka’s parents still coach. The Kozukas are deeply tied to the Sato family of the Kansai University club. Kumiko Sato was a neighbor of Kozuka’s mother and introduced her to skating. Kozuka’s father was coached by her husband Nobuo Sato (also tied to Kobayashi’s Yokohama Prince club). Kozuka (who’s connected to Fuji through his wife) was and is coached by both Satos and Yuka did his choreography. As I said before, Nakamura, Sasaki, Kobayashi and Kozuka, too, are older and Takahashi was the only Japanese male skater to aspire to during their time, so they’re not that relevant to what R162 was talking about. I forgot to say that Iwano is also coached by Utako Nagamitsu.

Despite attending Chukyo University, Yamamoto, who has also said that his dream is to become like Takahashi and Plushenko, does not skate for Chukyo but Howa Sports. His coach, Hiroshi Nagakubo, trained Arakawa and coached at Hanyu’s rink in Sendai until it closed. Sumoto, who likens himself as the next Hanyu, is still in high school and skates for his private school. Sato is from and trains in Iwate, the same region (Tohoku) as Hanyu. Shimada is also still in high school and trains with Lambiel in Switzerland. These skaters are under no obligation to name anyone from Kansai or Chubu yet and still fairly unknown. Actually, Sato might feel pressured to name Hanyu, not only for the regional connection but the tsunami connection. Nishiyama is the only other skater who’s named Hanyu I can think of right now, but he’s from Tokyo and his former coach was Yutaka Higuchi, a friend of Brian Orser’s and a former member of TCC, which is how Nishiyama was able to join the club. Also not that well known. But R162’s observations were made on the Japanese side as well.

R254 There’s no locker room in elementary school and the class changes in the classroom together until fourth grade. Everyone wears a type of towel that you tie around your neck that hides your body when you change, anyway. At baths and hot springs, younger boys will also use the women’s side because parents feel it’s safer. I think Uno was changing with the girls for safety reasons.

Oooh I love your quiz.

1. Cizeron. (but I'd put Moir and Donohue above him - not Shibutani though). Massot too but I get the pairs and dance teams mixed up as I'm new at this and don't follow much except mens singles yet.

2. Hanyu easily. If you watch him enough, he inevitably does some pretty extreme limp-wristed mincing. I don't see anything gay about Uno (well, except him sleeping on that guy's crotch but even then, I think Uno was oblivious). I still want to know why he was in the girls dressing room! I think he was scared of the other boys lol. I don't think either one is a "practicing" gay though - poor guys (though I'm not sure otaku Uno gives a shit)

3. Higuchi. That's hard though. Honda has the looks that the judges and everybody else wants despite Higuchi's beautiful face. What a shame body type trips up women so much - not so much the men, nobody cares than Chan and Uno are stocky, and they get to wear trousers and long sleeves that disguise it. Why can't Debbie Thomas' bodysuits come back into vogue?

4. Ge. The patron saint of pesterers. Zhou's just silly and pretentious - not savvy enough to leech himself onto others, though yeah, I'll accept that Ge was an artistic skater - I can't watch him anymore - he makes me cringe. Stay in China, Misha! Boyang is the codepedent type and the Chinese need help pre-Beijing. A LOT of help.

[R290] Dear, I ve been here for 2 years(????) almost every day and I was NEVER able to post here. Never . I ve been here almost every day, at mornings,or at afternoon or at nights. Diferrent times of the day. With one computer. ANd i could have never been able to post. Now i can . Yes, it is true that i wasnt able to post again yesterday for a hmm two hours but it was back . That happened once since i have been able to post here.

R293. It might just be one. Probably has more than one personality.

For the quiz: 1. Cizeron 2. Easy. Hanyu 3. Higuchi 4. Ge

{R293] it is hilarious. I am somebody else then? One more person? Who posts here what kind of stuff?you re entertatining

R269 Not trying to interrupt your mating ritual here, but...why does Daisuke deserve to be blamed for other people's overzealous actions, especially when he voiced his disapproval of said actions and closed his twitter account to shut the mud slinging down? What else could he possibly have done? Besides he was subjected to counterattacks and harassment from Hanyu fans too (to a lesser extent but still...) Takahashi and Hanyu were both victims of this mess. Or is everyone to be blamed for their obnoxious fans' behaviour for failing to constantly supervise them and call the delinquents back? That would mean Yuzu and Yuna are to be held responsible for their nutcase fans' bullying of other skaters and their fans too. Damn, that means I have to drop all of my faves...

Thank you for the attention, I'll let everyone get back to the trollhunting now.

Oh on the quiz - I think Kihira is gonna break out. I read somewhere - one of the ice shows probably or maybe that recent Japanese skaters' camp - that she was landing 3A after 3A, hardly missing any - while Higuchi was trying and not as successful. Kihira is also dainty and pretty. If she can hold onto that jump (and she's working on the quad toe to the point that she's considering having it in her free-skate at some point this season), then I don't think any of the Japanese girls could top that.

And the Russian quadsters aren't ready and are younger so in more danger of outgrowing their ability to land quads a la Trusova. There's a Russian girl with a 3A but I don't thinks he's going to seniors yet.

{R299] That guy just hate Takahashi and if everyone here say something what he doesnt like(doesnt mater what but it has to concern Yuzuru) , call em shomatroll/or daitroll immediately for no reason . Hw has some problem with this guy coz his fans hate Hanyu. Or something like that. As you said he is a nutcase

R299 I don't think anyone is seriously blaming Dai. There are plenty of Dai fans on this board. I think most people are just trying to poke the troll to see how it reacts (SPOILER ALERT: IT WILL BE SUPER PSYCHO See R301 above).

Can we all just do a collective ignore on the troll? Even talking around it or about it is getting tiresome. For me, it's no longer entertaining.

{R302} you proved my point from {R301] You only provoke because i said something not nice about hanyus fans so started calling me a daitroll. IS that has any sense to you?What are you so proud of??

Thanks R294. Hearing that it's common to have the boys in the women's changing room for safety - it makes sense that Uno would keep doing it, perhaps longer than others, because he seems to be a creature of habit who doesn't fret about the details of life too much :) That's probably unfair - I agree with Canadian commentator Carol Lane - Uno is a "glorious skater." That doesn't really happen by accident.

I said Daitroll. Not R302. I personally don't care for Dai. I am a big Hanyu fan. I don't know the history too much. I see what I see online and his fans are vicious. If Hanyu fans are doing the same I have not seen it. I've seen them be annoying in other ways.

[R302]Yeh right You dont care about Dai....LOL listen troll , you CARE for Dai very much. You bring him out every time you can. every hanyu topic you end up with Takahashi And you say you dont care/?????. Hang out with some friends ,,no hanyu for some time. Fuck off from me ok? You started it all. I hate liars

Here's a bit of an update on Sui/Han

Sui / Han are out of GP???

R309 Yes, Trollsuke, if you weren't so busy flicking your bean over a photoshopped marriage ceremony between you and Dai, you would know this by now.

{R309} You havent know until now , you dickhead .Weknow you re a liar already.Nothing what comes off your disguting mouth is true.. Yesterday there were rumour , but nothing sure .Now it is confirmed. But you were so busy jerking off to hanyus pictures so you didnt know

Many instastories from Cizeron, Papadakis, Cipres, Nagasu.

Yes, thank god post something and save me from that #hanyuretard

R312 thanks for sharing. Some of these ig stories are so much fun.

Nathan really seems to have come out of his shell at The Ice show and related extracurriculars. Or maybe I just had the wrong impression? Anyway, somebody did a transcript of an Instagram story that's not available anymore - what is it with Russians and calling people fat?:

Nathan to Dima (Aliev): 'How do you say Good Morning?' Dima: 'Dobroye utro' Nathan: 'That's like(?) ... Dobroye utro' 'Dude the only Russian I know - (mentions Raf) - he called ... you know Michal Brezina - he calls his sister a fat cow.' Mariah (Bell): 'When she first came to the rink, he said - I don't know why you're here - pigs can't fly ... He's so mean.' Nathan: 'Actually he doesn't say (?) that much. He only said it a couple times.' Mariah: 'Only when he's really mad' Nathan: 'When he's really mad, yeah' Mariah: 'And he like pounds the stick as he's saying it' Dima: Asking about Rafael Nathan: 'He's coming, he's here - I think. I don't know where. He has our money.' Mariah: 'He has my credit card.'

R315 A previous coach of Brezina's sister was convicted for abuse on girls at the rink and sexual harrassement...so fat cow and pig is probably light stuff for her

Ah, that coach is still allowed to coach in a certain European country.

R315 I think Nathan's always had a pretty wry sense of humor and seems fun to be around. Don't know why that doesn't quite translate to his skating.

R317maybe Nathan is concentrating so much on quads that he forgets to have fun on the ice.

r312 The skaters' Japanese experience looks amazing, it's cool they have time to go full-blown tourists.

"I'm a man but for some reason when I watch Johnny Weir skating, I find it so beautiful." - this is a common thing to say if you're a man that finds something "artistic" pleasant to look at. Remember that rough, rugged sports are "masculine" and artistry is coded as "feminine" - while it's fine for straight man to wear pink shirts in Asia, it's seen as weird for them to say someone's artistic dance moves are beautiful to look at. "I'm a guy but this man is so good looking" or "I'm a guy but I was moved by this music" are types of things that are often said - you have to emphasize your manliness (code: heterosexuality) before admitting to being emotionally or artistically sensitive.

Hanyu has always been a "sister's boy" in his own words. Very close with mom too. It's not unusual though, because a lot of Japanese moms are stay-at-home moms and kids don't get to interact with dads much. Uno also said that he's a lot more like his mom than dad because he spends so much more time with her. It's not uncommon for boys with older sisters to be more hyperaware of the difference between the genders and treat the opposite sex more carefully, and Hanyu's father has always taught him to strive to be perfect and polished in every way, so it's not surprising that he performs the gentleman quite well. But I agree that he seems more comfortable touching guys - not casual touching but intentional touching. But some people are just naturally touchy.

Uno's changing in girls' locker rooms was apparently not a big deal. I don't think he even thought of it as anything out of the ordinary until he hit Seniors and had to move away for propriety's sake. He was always being babied by girls for being small and frail (asthma) and was never really awkward with them any more than he was awkward with people in general. He's very close with a few female peers and his female coaches. Cha has also commented once about how strange it was to have to grow up and deal with rowdy boys in school locker rooms. Figure skating has more girls in it than boys, so chances are they just grow up to be comfortable around female energy and it might mean you get more touchy-feely with everyone (Hanyu), or view girls as the same sex as you and touch them without a thought until you're scolded for it (Uno), or just not feel a need to play tough-guy to impress other boys (Cha). And despite playing ice hockey and all kinds of other sports with his brother, Uno chose to stick with figure skating... he used to be scared of the rough sports that his parents tried to get him to play. Maybe Uno is closer to straight, but I think he views both men and women with the same aloof, disinterested eyes, or the same platonic affection.

Why is it necessary to blame the fan behavior of any skater on that skater?

And why do some of you think that Hanyu is such a sheltered little soul? Because Orser kept repeating that he lives with his mother? I've been watching that kid since he won his first OGM and an innocent child he is not. I believe he's a genuinely good guy but also a badass competitor who's highly intelligent and well aware of his power to charm the public. For example, he knows his fans love the Pooh stuff and so he uses that to play with them--when he's in the K&C and when he says things in press conferences like "I want to take Pooh back to the forest." That doesn't mean that he plays with plushies when he's not in the public eye. He's very much into music and gaming and likely some other stuff that mother does not know about.

As for his programs and costumes, check out the new FS podcast on YouTube "In the Loop Podcast"--Episode 5: Not Everyone is Made for Sparkles. The latter part of it has an excellent discussion about both Hanyu and Weir, how they are often misunderstood and how both of them know who they are and exactly what they're doing. Best discussion I've ever heard about gender and homophobia in the figure skating community.

R277 Out of those Pairs, I have seen and remember Stellato/Bartholomey, Hase/Seegert, Suzaki & Kihara and Barquero & Maestru. They have done Euros and/or Worlds in recent seasons. Suzuki/Kihara were also at Olympics (and skated on Yuri on Ice soundtrack). Barquero/Maestru were a new team last season, pretty decent overall, even if she is underage and he's almost 30, but the age gap wasn't too much visible. I think Ruest/Wolfe were at Milan Worlds but I can't remember them I've seen Lu & Mitrofanovat at Junior Worlds I don't know who Purich/Portz and Pfund & Santilan are. I have heard of Walsh/Michaud but mainly because he's Kaetlyn Osmond's boyfriend

R321 Thanks for the recommendation. That was a very good discussion and touches on some of the things we've talked about here, so others might find it interesting. They make a good point about ice dance as well - that the programs are often centered around a very narrow definition of romantic relationships, so they are limiting not just for siblings/couples who don't have romantic chemistry, but also limiting for artistic expression, and figure skating's ability to appeal to a new generation of fans who don't see femininity/masculinity as dichotomous or have such a narrow view of sexual attraction or relationships. The other interesting point they brought up was that it was pretty brave for Hanyu to perform RJ as Juliet in Sochi. I never thought about that.

Here's a link to the podcast in case anyone's interested.

I have my reasons for not liking Daisuke Takahashi. Its not only his fans but I've seen things he did which I will not discuss here. Maybe he has changed? I don't know. I hope he has. I know some of his fans won't.

And thank you for the link R324. I will watch it when I get home.

[320] Uno doesn’t have Asthma, Hanyu does. I don’t think Unos’s ever been seen as frail, just very spacey.

Actually... Uno did have asthma. Just because you weren't aware doesn't mean it's not true. He was born sick and frail and practically lived in hospitals.

r325 Well, you can't leave here. Did you see those things personally/on video? C'mon, tell us all the dirt.

R222 Are there any former juniors just turned seniors that you think could make the podium at the GPs? Could any of the remaining couples like Hubbell/Donohue beat P/C this season ?

R329 I can't show what I saw since I can't upload it. But I saw Daisuke Takahashi and others all sitting and Hanyu was the only one standing. Takahashi looked pissed off and Yuzuru looked sad and awkward. It's hard to describe.

I hope Takahashi has changed. Maybe we'll know soon enough.

R331 Sorry, that's pathetic. Troll somewhere else please.

Huh? I am not trolling. I'm telling you what I saw to a point. You don't have to believe it. Wont bother me one way or another. I saw hanyu standing while takahashi and other skaters from japan all sitting. Could have been the JSF. Not sure. I know they were in some kind of room. After a competition? Hanyu had his jacket. White one. But like I said it doesn't bother me of you believe me or not. I saw it and both those skaters faces. Have a great evening!

R334 Uh, it doesn't even matter if you saw such a thing or not. (Not to mention the complete lack of credibility without a source. Was it a video? A picture? Your dream?) How does it illustrate anything specific? Could you have thought of anything more vague than this?

If I could download it I would. The truth is I can't. I know what I saw. Seriously I didn't post that hoping you all would believe it. I was hesitant because I knew I couldn't download anything. And it's really ok if you don't believe it. I'm not going to get upset. I saw it and so did others. I know I'm not lying. I also understood the risk posting anything at all about it here. I'm going to just drop it now and move on. I want to watch that video that was posted anyway .: )

R336 What risk are you talking about? Your making a fuss over nothing and evade the question of how that situation were to illustrate anything concrete, even if it happened. (Not to mention you're talking a lot of gibberish.) If you're trying to paint Takahashi as evil you gotta try much harder than that. lol

R337. I don't believe Takahashi is evil and that wasn't my intent. He is Mad though. Hmmm. Maybe upset is the better word. : )

The poster who pointed out that there are two Takahashi ubers here is right. I questioned it at first because the second is less transparently psycho, but they are slowly revealing themselves by 1) tl;dr essays on how everyone, absolutely everyone adores Takahashi; and 2) attacking anyone who dares to criticize him and calling them troll.

R338 If you hate Takahashi, who cares, you're entitled to your hate, and you don't have to justify it to anyone here. I happen to like Takahashi and am agnostic on what he's like as a person (I just don't know enough about him). This thread was great with a sprinkling of everyone's fans and nonfans, but the arrival of the Dai psycho and now this one, has made discussing him a big turn off.

I believe you, R336, but I guess I don't understand it. Do you think this was a meeting or a class and all the skaters, led by Takahashi, decided to make fun of him or say terrible things to him, while he stood there upset and/or crying? I'm trying to imagine what kind of situation this was, where you're sure that Hanyu was being hurt by Takahashi (and everybody else?) and even though everybody else was "seated", it's mainly Takahashi that's at fault for this assault on Hanyu that upset him?? I'm probably missing some key thing you actually said but I'm not able to imagine what kind of situation this was.

I heard about and briefly saw a video of this: Hanyu did well in some competition, either 2012 or 2013 I think - maybe Worlds? (I'm not sure.) Anyway, as he was announced or given the medal or whatever, the crowd boo'd him (Takahashi was there). I think it was explained to me that Takahashi fans were angry that Hanyu either beat or nearly beat Takahashi and in that situation, they hated him and boo'd loudly at him, which really hurt him and you can see his embarrassment and pain in his face. I'm not sure what Takahashi did but reports were he didn't applaud Hanyu himself or try to do anything to appease the situation, like put his arm around 17 year old Hanyu to diffuse the crowd - or some other action he could have taken to try to signal to his fans that he liked Hanyu and all was well.

And even my little story is tl;dr but after hearing about Hanyu being humiliated by a group led by Takahashi in some meeting or something has triggered my sympathy I guess so I want to hear a clearer explanation (or an explanation that makes sense to a dummy like me.)

I like your post R339. I agree it was fun other than this recent hate-filled trolling mess.

R337 If he's mad you'd be well suited to each other. ;-)

Gross, it's the same pattern again see R341, sitting on the thread, at the ready to attack every post that doesn't contain the words "Dai" and "absolutely incredible" in it.

R342 two Dai fans here are absolutely incredible psychos

Thank you R324. I called it a video in my other post. It was a podcast. Very interesting what they talked about. I might subscribe.

R339 R342 And ganging up on someone who dares to call out obviously far-fetched accusations is a virtuous thing to do? (I've been speaking up against Takahashi fans who did the same towards Hanyu too btw.) Ok then, sorry to disturb this absolutely sane discussion. Have fun!

R340. Nationals. 2012 nationals this happened. I don't know if hanyu was hurt by Takahashi. To me it looked more like he was hurt with the situation. Everyone sitting and he was the only one standing. It wasn't a class. It had to be after the competition. In a room. Lots of people. Skaters and non skaters. Takahashi Did look upset and this was 2012 nationals so now I know why. Hanyu looked sad. Not like he wanted to cry. He looked more uncomfortable standing there.

R345 you're the same Dai fan #2, me-whinging about all the meanies who attack you. And no, you only post long love letters to Dai on this thread. Don't pretend you're standing up to the psychos.

Thanks R346. It may have been the competition that I saw the medal podium with many booing Hanyu when he got his medal. That must have been tough.

I was reading Hanyu's account of what happened at Sochi. When he did the team event, when he went to skate, there was a lot of crowd excitement and he thought it was about him. He was wrong.

He did his short program which was fantastic (this was either at the same team event or the short program for the men's singles) -- and when he finished his program which was a great success, he looked around and there was scant reaction and not much applause, and he was thinking, what? No one liked it? And it hit him that he had misinterpreted the crowd reaction earlier - which was probably about somebody else, maybe a Russian skater or something.

Well, I don't remember any other details, but Hanyu was really open about describing how his feelings were hurt when people didn't react much after what he thought was a really great performance (of his short - he knew his long program was had big problems).

He's so philosophical -- let's just hope he learned from all these painful experiences. He's the type to analyze and move forward, older and wiser (imo) - he seems so smart and open when he's discussing his life experiences. A lesser person might become more bitter than I think he is.

R339. I don't hate Takahashi. I don't care for him mostly because of some of his fans and also because deep down I feel he might be somewhat jealous of Hanyu. I could be wrong and I hope I am.

R348 I think Hanyu's descriptions of how he misunderstood the audience reaction in Sochi were always pretty light and self-deprecating. He was kind of laughing at himself in the interview I saw.

R348 I'll have to watch his sp. I only watched his freeskate in Sochi. I do believe everything he has been through has made him a stronger person.

R345 Sure, this thread is filled to the brim with my long love letterS. ;-) And no I'm not pretending anything, thank you very much. Who said I spoke up for Hanyu in this particular thread? There were no accusations directed at him here as far as I could see. And please don't try to twist causes and effects. Whatever, this is tedious. I'm out.

R352 was directed at 347 of course.

Thanks R350 - I didn't see the interview, just read about it, so I missed the light-hearted part. Glad to hear it! And yes R351 - in the Sochi short program, Yuzuru became the first man to receive over 100 points, so it's worth a watch. It's why he won the gold! I agree that his struggles, and I guess more importantly, his attitude toward them, has made Hanyu a stronger person. At least I hope so. He sure gave me a scare at his Continues with Wings with that sad/controversial little speech, but even that is part of his method I think - face your problems, and be open about them - as part of the way through them. Better than burying it inside.

BTW, this is very trivial but I'm weird about heights. On Google, it says Kolyada is 5'9" and Nathan Chen is 5'5". Yet in this picture, well, that can't be true (this is recent - like a week or two ago when Kolyada was in California working with Raf.) So... is our Nathan growing like a weed? Or did Kolyada fudge (I've always thought 5'9" sounded a little tall for him, but not a whole lot - he looks the same as Hanyu or a bit shorter to me, and Hanyu is 5'8". Anyhow the recent picture:

R354 Hanyu is 1.72cm and Kolyada is 1.68cm according to ISU biods

The original discussion wasn’t even about Takahashi, but how the more nasty Takahashi fans have been exploiting Ten’s death across social media. R329/R333 (R218 R221 R218) might be sensitive about Takahashi, but I don’t think they were being sinister. I was also confused about what you were talking about, R325. Hanyu was booed at 2012 and 2013 nationals. Orser described 2013 as more difficult mentally than the Olympics.

I can think of a few things that have colored my perception of Takahashi as a person.

While knowing Oda was completely devastated he wasn’t going to the 2006 Olympics after the Fed had announced they had mistakenly named him instead of Takahashi, Takahashi said he thought it was great Japan was only allowed to send one man because it was the first time that had happened, he loves rare things and the idea of being the only one. He told his University newspaper he was glad when Oda got injured because he was very lucky the previous season. He wouldn’t stop writing about Hanyu and how he didn’t want Hanyu or anyone to take his spotlight in and outside the rink, despite knowing his fans were interpreting his words as an order to harass Hanyu and Hanyu was considering quitting. His trainer said Takahashi would throw his mobile phone at him when he'd get frustrated and Takahashi admitted it was true.

I still prefer his skating to most of the other men. The guys who just go from jump to jump could learn a thing or two from Takahashi and I think he could change if he found a way to address his deep insecurities, but then he just had to schedule his press conference the night before Hanyu's award ceremony of all nights.

R340 I can't even imagine how Yuzuru Hanyu felt being booed. And he was only 17? I know some might say it's not Daisuke Takahashi's responsibility to try to make Hanyu feel better but imo he should have tried. Was it so bad that they took the video down? I can't find the competition on YouTube.

R356 he said he was glad Oda was injured? He should keep comments like that to himself.

[R339} You know , you re all PSYCHOS like typical dais fans and hanyu fans it seems.. really serious, serious one. I think you need a doctor because you re delusional. I dont know why I have got into it, that dai thing. Could you explain it to me? Because I still dont know . I am a really V/M hater and p/c uber if you want to say what I like . And hanyu and dai couldnt exist to me actually. I am sick of fans of theirs only. MAny people do . And d ia m right, they re shit.it is confirmed now. Actually canadians and japaneses ubers are the worst

First of all: guys (or girl, more likely) stop whining about a few love letters to Takahashi. They're epitome of tame when compared to all the love books to Hanyu.

Secondly, Takahashi was a great skater and I still find him very fuckable (and I'm the counter-3A one btw).

Thirdly, Takahashi seriously WROTE that he was glad that Oda was injured and that he didn't want anybody to take spotlight away from him? Was it a blog or a book? I don't know whether to find this kind of honesty admirable or not.

R360 Nobody batted an eye about the love letters to Takahashi until its poster started getting alternately nasty with people and then acting thin-skinned when other people got nasty back. God that sounds so dumb, because that whole line of conversation was so fucking dumb.

Takahashi was a great skater and was fuckable but he is no longer fuckable due to his gaunt appearance and ugly hair and thus his pettiness is less forgivable. I'm still curious to see him skate, but any excitement has been marred by the emergence of his psycho fans (see apostrophe anti above) and all this stupid petty drama with his generation of skaters.

{R361] Yes, I wouldnt mind you being nasty, but DONT LIE. I am emotiona woman l thats why I am not nice when somebody is lying and adds things , just to please yourself. .Thats irritating.. you re obssesed over someone you dont like. Oki, but dont make me someone who i am not. I just feel sorry that hanyu has such fans. Others asians skaters also. Sad

They are starting to fill all these Pairs vacant spots. Hase/Seegert got Skate America and Internatiounaux de France going from 0 to 2 GP in one day.

I expected them to get France, but I thought Skate America would have gone to a Canadian pair because of logistic and costs

In further Pairs news, Rogonov got a new girl after Astakhova's retirement. Someone called Alina Ustimkina, 18 years old

Entries released for Philadelphia International (this week) and Ice Dance event in Germany (next week)

Karen Chen will be in Philly. Among men, Dolensky (who needs a good showing to get the Skate America host spot), Pulkinen, Paniot, Torgashev, Ma.

In Germany only 4 ice dance teams. The 2 German duos (Muller/Dieck and Koch/Nuchert) and the 2 Italian teams (Tessari/Fioretti and Moscheni/Fabbri).

R360 In an interview with their university's newspaper.

R360 what will happen to you if Dai does a backcounter 3a?

Are some of you posters from the old GGMB page? Because some of you sound really obsessive and crazy.

I believe Takahashi is a petty individual. After reading what he apparently said in a university newspaper. Making sure he left pictures of Hanyu off his instagram while having the other Olympic athletes on there. Yes he could have disabled comments on his instagram if he wanted to avoid backlash. Im interested but at the same time not interested in Takahashi return.

R362 why is everyone always a liar to you? I don't take any comment here as someone lying to everyone. Could some of us be wrong? Sure! I don't call that lying.

Maybe we can all agree on certain things and go back to regular programming which is basically nothing since nothing of note is happening: 1) some people are hot for Dai, some for Hanyu, some both; 2) Dai is petty, jealous and insecure in certain situations, but is nice, thoughtful, likeable in others; 3) don't engage or try to reason with the resident psycho, e.g. R359, R362. Has it ever given anyone a non-psych ward answer?

Do we know anything about Jason Brown's programs or who is choreographing them?

[R367] I didnt say everyone is a liar here. I meant only those who posts i am dai troll. Making up thngs is lying for me,maybe only for me....

[R368] IF am a psycho what you tell about your japanese friends talking shit stuff about Ten? Double standarts???

[R369] Dawid Wilson

I spent some time in Jason's thread at Golden Skate and his programs haven't been announced. He performed at some event on July 26 and there are links at that thread (page 746). Someone commented: Seeing both videos and I agree that on the whole he looks really good -- it's good to see the spilt jumps back. It's good that the 3F/3Z looks fine, which means he can focus more on the 3A and quad jumps. I'm eager to see what the new technique looks like on his 3A and 3Lo, which tend to be his weaker jumps.

They also said this, which has me wondering how programs are gonna change, re quads, this coming season:

Looking at the Minto protocols, the penalty on falling on a quad is HUGE and the reward isn't that great if you don't have a +2 or higher quad jump. Stephen Gogolov's 4Z fully rotated fall was ultimately worth 4.75 points (when you factor the fall deduction), which would match a decent 3T jump. So it will be interesting what kind of strategy Jason will have regarding attempting the jump in the competition.

Oh and Jason will be a "guest performer" at the gala/ice show to the Japan Open: "Carnival on Ice" on October 6. The Japan Open lineup - and it surprises me that Yalie Nathan is bother to go to this freeskate-only competition that doesn't count too much, I don't think:

Team North America: Nathan, Bradie, Gabrielle, Jeremy Abott

Team Japan: Shoma, Satoko, Nobunari Oda, Kaori Sakamoto

Team Europe: Alina, Javier, Carolina, Deniss Vasiljevs

Guests: Lambiel, Machida, Shibutanis

Carnival on Ice adds: Jason Brown, Lambiel, Kana Muramoto/Chris Reed

hha it was announced for short Jason Brown SP: Love is a B*tch (Two Feet)

Last I read, Rohene Ward choreographed his short program, David Wilson choreographed his long program. I don't think the actual programs have been announced yet.

Oops I didn't mean to list Lambiel twice - he is a guest at the Japan Open which automatically means he'll perform at Carnival on Ice. Also someone said it looked like Jason was rotating his jumps sooner, which was one of his quad problems since his former technique had him starting the rotations to late in the jump.

Something tells me that the crazy troll is just a cackling DLer who is pretending to be a woman with bad English who claims to hate Asians because they know the DL's populace.

A sweet recent Q&A with Jason. Well, of course it's sweet, it's Jason! He's a great ambassador for the US.

Oops trying link again

R375 That thought crossed my mind too. But real or fake, it's no longer entertaining so I've hit ignore.

ISU is always top class. They just uploaded the results page for Junior and Novice at Asian Open. And in Junior Men, they mispelt the surname of technical specialist AND called the male assistant specialist "Ms". I mean, the guysis as gay (and slutty) as you can get but he still a man

r363 I have no idea who the pair are, watching Pairs this season is going to be like watching FS for the first time..

I'm waiting impatiently for some man to withdraw, though, so that pretty Cha could get his secondassignment. (Just not one of my faves!)

rr365 If Dai does a backcounter-3A, I will keel over from surprise, along with everybody else!

I wish Jason Brown kept his Hamilton SP, that one was really great. Unlike his Piano one, a real bore. Which reminds me that Maori Sakamoto, so exciting last season, is doing the Piano for her FS. Whyyy.

Even though Hanyu is my favorite how can anyone not love Jason?

Rudest/Wolfe from Canada got the other French GP slot.

There are still 3 GP Pairs slots to fill + the host pick in FInland that may be returned back because they don't have Pairs. And the French host pick is available again for one crappy never heard pair who don't get on Didier's nerves

R380 Zandron has withdrawn from Rostelecon Cup because he is switching from Italy to Austria and needs to sit out a year. So one available slot there

r382 Cool! Never heard of the dude so I won't cry after him. I hope Cha gets in.

R383 actually, 2 spots are available at Rostelecom as there is also Ten's slot to fill

R380 Cha must get a second assignment. I see so much potential in him. I may have missed it but why does he only have one as of right now?

{R375} hahahal I dont hate all asians ...I just cannot stand asian who love FS. they re delusional. IAnd i dont pretend being a woman - why do you have problems with everything? Chill out And what about my english? is that bad? lol

R385

IIRC he is the highest ranked skater in SB list with only 1 assignment so far. So he is at the top of the alternate list

Below him, apart from host picks (Erakhov, Ponsart) and those guaranteed 2 from Worlds (Majorov) , only Rizzo and Krasnozhon got 2 GPs (both were in Word Standings top 24).

The only written rule is that top 12 at Worlds is guaranteed of 2 GPs and top 24 in Season Best and top 24 in World Standings are guaranteed of one.

However, given who got 1 and who got 2, I guess they have assigned the 2 slots to top 12 at Worlds (including Zhou and Tanaka instead of retired Ge and Aaron), then they assigned 1 to those in top 24 SB and WS who didn't get 2 from Worlds. Then they started to give 1 more GP based on Season Best list. So those who already had 1 got second GP and those with 0 went up to 1 until the slots available were all filled (and that's Zandron in 67th).

Cha was 25th in SB list and was left with 1

I have a question and it might be a stupid question but if Takahashi said things about Oda in a university newspaper and wrote things in regards to Hanyu why isn't he called out on this? Or was he? If Johnny Weir said things like that about Adam Rippon he would have probably been torn apart. I'm just very curious.

R374 Maybe Dave's rumor that TCC chose to take on Jason after Kori's presentation on jumps at the PSA conference convinced them he was taught incorrect technique that could be fixed is true.

R387 ok I see. Thank you for explaining that. I really didn't understand why some got one and others got two.

Takahashi announced his programs for next season:

SP -“The Sheltering Sky,” a piano piece by Ryuichi Sakamoto, choreographer David Wilson.

FS - “Pale Green Ghosts,” by John Grant, choreographer Benoit Richaud

South Korea programs

Eunsoo Lim

SP: Somewhere in Time OST, choreo by Jeffrey Buttle

FS: Chicago OST, choreo by Akiko Suzuki

Dabin Choi

SP: Don’t Cry for Me Argentina

FS: Carmen choreo by Kenji Miyamoto

June Hyoung Lee

SP: Eternally by Il Volo

FS: Rach 2, 3rd movement choreo by David Wilson

The Grand Prix in Helsinki tickets went on sale today 8/1 - and the highest level gold tickets sold out in 20 seconds; all gold, silver and bronze were gone in 15 minutes (according to people trying to buy them on Golden Skate and Instagram stories). Hope this pays off for Helsinki - they were nice to step up. China's weird. Especially with poor Boyang :(

what ?? I was supposed to be going

Wow! I Knew they would sell fast but I didn't think that fast. I'm not new to figure skating but this is my first time watching a whole season if that makes sense. Will this event in Helsinki be televised? I want to see both Zagitova and Hanyu.

I wish I knew about the tv - I don't know if NBC will show the GPs. They have some kind of subscription service for figure skating but it's the first year (since Ice Network went away). I'm nervous about signing up. I think they're promising Skate America and 4CC - well hell, I want to see Hanyu and if not, I'm not paying lol.

Anyway, it sounds like Helsinki should have pulled an Anaheim and charged through the roof. Anaheim 4CC is like $700 or something like that. Helsinki was:

CAT3 €110 – CAT2 €200 – CAT1 €230 -AE BRONZE €275 – AE SILVER €300 – AE GOLD €350 (delivery fee not included)

I don't want to sound harsh....but what's the point of these Indian boys in the Novice competition at Asian Open?

One scored 1.75 for Technica Score and the other one got 1.33

Almost all elements called invalid.

Isn't it humialiting for them?

Ok it is Novice level but the leaders were doing 2A, one solo triple and 3+2 combos....

one of the Indian boys had an underotated 1A! Wait, he has also a downgraded 1A.....

R396. I just ordered the Olympic channel a couple months ago. Is anyone familiar with the Olympic channel and what skating events if any they broadcast? I know They broadcasted this past world's.

R430. I will have to take a look at the NBC subscription. I'm with you on the Hanyu. They don't show his events then I don't want to pay.

For GPs some "illegal" livestream from foreign TVs is usually findable if you aren't interested in the understanding the comments

R397 you might be interested in this article about the lowest ranked figure skater, who is from India. Doesn't answer your question re why they even bother, but it does have somewhat interesting things to say about their training and what they might get out of it.

R401 Thanks. Tomorrow in Juniors there will be 2 Indian boys and 2 Indonesian boys. So it's 3.something their benchmark for SP!

My reply was for R396. LOL! We are not even on a post 430. I need to go get my glasses. lol.

r396 €200-350€ (so $230-410) for a decent/good ticket a for GP? I'd say they did charge through the roof. Skate America's prices are $125-250.

r397 I guess ISU want to encourage figure skating in those countries, whatever level there may there currently. Having a goal in mind, such as taking part in a JGP event encourages people to make effort.

That's interest R404. Four Continents in Anaheim is charging $399 to $599+

Why??

R388 The university paper (Boom Sports) is a tiny publication and the interview was published before the Vancouver Olympics where he became famous, and no one outside fans would pay much attention to any skater’s autobiographies. His trainer talked about his Naomi Campbell habit on TV Asahi news and Takahashi talked about throwing his boots and other objects at people on TV (and in his book “2000 Days”), but they were broadcasted right after he retired while the scandal with Hashimoto, which rightly garnered a huge outpouring of sympathy, was still on everyone’s mind and still is whenever he’s mentioned. (It’s not as bad, but there’s a funny gif of him angrily throwing his used tissue at Takeshi Honda at 2013 Nationals as Honda tries to say something to him.) If it came out today that one of the current skaters was having temper tantrums and throwing objects at their staff, they would be ripped to shreds. Takahashi has occasionally gotten the side eye for his behavior and comments, and he doesn’t have the same humble and shy reputation he has outside Japan, so his image isn’t entirely clean.

As for why no one seems to know anything about him outside Japan, only a small fraction of skating news makes it outside the country and nearly all of it are translations by hobbyists who pick and choose what they want, and don’t always understand what they’re reading.

r406 Damn if I know. And actually, from what I heard, in Anaherim, there's some extra "operation fee" or "city tax fee" or something like that, at the amount of 16% of the ticket price which kicks up the price by about $100 for the good tix, that's why people say $700. And seriously, I have no idea what they're thinking. Perhaps they're assuming that boosted by the Olympics the interest in FS might be higher than on your average year? Worlds sold very well in the last years, so maybe they're thinking a big international event will be a draw? But then again they MUST be aware that 4CC is Euros' less respected brother usually ignored by the best skaters, and even Euros don't sell that well. Maybe they're banking on Nathan Chen's Olympic hype. Maybe they'll assuming Hanyu will turn up despite the fact that his track record shows he's more likely to skip. It can't be the great Bradie Tennel vs. Kern Chen showdown. In word, I'm baffled.

well, their promo include Zagitova, Medvedeva and Savchenko/Massot...maybe they didn't get the note on who is supposed to do 4 Continents...

r409 That's dumb. FS fans won't be fooled, casual "I remember that red tutu girl from the Olympics" fans will look at those prices and stay away.

The prices for 4CC is outrageous. I'm thinking they are banking on Hanyu to go. Even Nathan Chen can't draw a crowd like Hanyu. Like him or not he is the skater people want to watch. They should have had the prices in the 200-250 dollar range

How can 4CC get away with putting so many Europeans in their promo? Why don't just they throw in LeBron James and David Beckham, if their aim is to mislead?

R407. Thank you. Imo Takahashi seems like he gets upset very easily. I was the one that posted about the short clip I saw of everyone sitting in a room and Hanyu the only one standing. I have tried for the last hour to download it (it was sent private to me) I want to back up what I say but unfortunately I can't do it.

r413 I don't think anyone disbelieves you. We just thought the dirt would be ... dirt.

R413 R414 yeah we're too used to the other kinds of dirt provided by our team jpn dirt czar. Needs to be something about his father harasssing an underage worker at the family owned brothel.

I say this with appreciation, team jpn dirt czar. Don't stop bringing the goods!!

R414 R415. I guess I let a certain poster get to me and I shouldn't. I agree with you on team jpn dirt czar. I look forward to more dirt when it becomes available.

I 'll bring the dirt later but just wanted to drop in to tell you that sources in Japan are saying Hanyu's media day and open practice is on the 8th or 9th of this month.

Sorry. The original source for media day has deleted their tweet and now says they may have confused the date with last year. It was thought their source was someone who spoke to Tanaka, the cameraman in charge of shooting the Japanese skaters and who's usually at media day, but that wasn't the case. The rumor has already spread like wildfire.

I have some dirt on the organizer (Nathan's supporting team JPN) of Nathan’s fan meeting, but probably missing some information due to the organizer hiding her tracks. The meeting was organized by a fan who received permission from IMG, but had no oversight from the agency or an official body. Fans who wanted to attend the meeting had to follow the meeting's Twitter account by 7/12 and the winners approved by 7/14 via lottery would get to attend. The meeting fee was around 100 dollars US per person and no one under 20 was allowed to apply. 20 followers were approved on 7/14, but later 40 more twitter followers were approved that had applied after the deadline and the organizer did not explain how or why they were selected. Curiously, most of the approved twitter accounts were longtime followers of the organizer's personal twitter account. Before she became a Nathan fan, the organizer was a notorious Hanyu fan until Helsinki when she became an anti because she couldn't get near him. Before that, she was a Takahashi fan and before that, possibly a Mao fan turned anti again. She and another obsessive fan who's been giving Nathan very expensive gifts followed Nathan to his competitions and shows across Japan and the world, including to the U.S. for Stars on Ice and Sun Valley.

Other Nathan fans are very angry and suspicious that the organizer just chose her friends and discriminated against young fans with the minimum age rule and outrageous fee. She's deleted all of the tweets leading to the meet and greet, and no one who went has reported what happened at the meeting. I'm surprised Nathan's agent allowed this woman to plan the meeting. If you're curious about the demographic that attended the meeting, check Nathan's IG.

There was someone here earlier who was talking about Hanyu's positive features while also ticking off some of the features he has that they find less than perfect. While a couple of the things they listed as negative don't strike me as features that make him any more or less perfect, like his overly long neck and highly pronounced Adam's apple--I don't find them negative on him, I only find them unique features that he carries well--the other couple of things they listed I find don't ring true to me.

1) The guy does not have narrow shoulders. He kind of did back in his teens because they haven't filled out yet but they've broadened since. While still not broad by any means still, they are however no longer narrow, by standard shoulder width. My shoulders have never been broad either but no one has ever accused them of being narrow (I apparently can pull of sleeveless tops and cardigans quite well because they're straight) and his shoulders don't look narrower or less straight than mine are. My sister has more rounded shoulders than mine and so doesn't pull off the sleeveless or cardigan look quite as well (according to her, I can't really tell the difference myself cos she looks fine to me) and even she isn't widely considered to have narrow shoulders. Just normal width. I think that's what Hanyu has now, only straighter (but slopier than mine).

2) While his chin becomes doubled more easily than most his age and size, due to the flab right behind it that seems to be a genetic feature on his mother's side, it does not constitute as having no chin. I've seen people with weak chins and they always remind me of ET when it comes to the lower half of their faces, and Hanyu definitely isnt that. He in fact has a quite pronounced chin when that little flab isn't visible. People with weak chins or none to speak of won't look like they have chins no matter which way you look at them.

Sorry, this post doesn't have much point to it other than for me to state what I think based on what that other person said, whom I believe also said they found Hanyu attractive to their eyes nevertheless (despite these perceived physical shortcomings).

Linked image: To be completely fair, someone with narrow shoulders won't look like this in UA

"...and his shoulders don't look narrower or less straight than mine are."

Sorry. Made a wording error here. What I meant to say was, "and his shoulders don't look narrower (they are in fact slightly broader) and only a little less straight than mine are."

That's sufficiently dirty dirt, r419! Did she explain what the fee was for? Her reason for turning anti is just crazy. Is it known why she turned against Mao?

R419 that lady is crazy. She becomes an anti because she couldn't get near Hanyu? So if there ever comes a time she can't get near Nathan, will she become an anti of his?

R420 I also have read about Hanyu's chin. Some calling it a double chin. I look at photos and I just don't see it. I like his Adam's apple and his long neck. I also agree with you on his shoulders. They don't look narrow to me either.

R419 Nathan's people need to be more careful. The FS fandom seems to have more than its fair share of mental illness.

I also agree about Hanyu's shoulders - I think they're on the wide side (his hips flare out from his waist, too, unlike a lot of guys, but I can't figure out if he just has wider hips - or a smaller waist.) Anyway, in this video you can see how wider and straighter Hanyu's shoulders are than Nathan's, whose are narrow and slope down quite a lot. Keiji's shoulders seem a bit narrower as well.

Personally I would like to see Yuzuru wear more white. I think he looks great in white.

They made special mannequins for Yuzuru for that traveling exhibit of his costumes that went around Japan. If you scroll down just a bit, you can see how different his mannequin is from the typical male one that you can find in the group photo, along with the female mannequins - Yuzu's has wider shoulders, narrow waist, hips that flare out, rounded butt

Shoma about his new program (July 28 interview - I think the ISU changes have really changed things a lot for the guys (oh, and I think Shoma is very eloquent in his answers - maybe we underestimate him?)

Question: Are there any aspects of the new rules that you are excited for? Are there any aspects that became difficult?

Shoma: There aren’t any aspects that I’m particularly excited about. Rather than difficulty, because the free program is 30 seconds shorter, it’ll feel rushed, so I will work hard to try to get used to it so I can express better and have time to spare.

Question: Have you been practicing in order to be compatible with the new rules?

Shoma: The GOE system has changed significantly, so instead of challenging new jumps, I am training now to increase the success rates and improve the form of the jumps I can already land.

[R424] You must have been looking at pics where the flab's hidden then, because it's quite easy to see, especially from the side or from a lower angle shot. When he looks up, it sometimes causes his chin to disappear altogether, which may be what gives some the impression that he doesn't have one. But the fact of the matter is he does. He does not have a weak chin and he has a very strong jawline. It's just that The Flab undermines them. I however find it cute that he resembles his mom down to that bit.

[426] My money's on both. He has both an extremely small waist and hips that are wider/more flared than the average male. Which is what makes his shape so unique.

R428 thank you for the link. I was looking at his costume from Sochi and the two next to it. I know one was from Hope and Legacy. Is it just me or do the other two costumes look like a smaller fit than the Sochi one? Maybe he lost some weight?

R425. I was wondering about the mental illness in the fs fandom. I also enjoy swimming. In fact I got to meet briefly an Olympic swimmer. The fans were not crazy from what I saw. This fs fandom I find to be very strange at times.

The first time I heard of the concept of an "idol" in Asian cultures was in the context of figure skating, when Hanyu insisted he was an athlete and not an idol. It's a peculiar idea to me, that you can be so invested in a celebrity that you would think if they married or dated or had a separate life, it would be considered a personal "betrayal" to fans. I'm sure there's more to it than this, but that's at least one aspect of it that I understood. Does this account for why some of the FS fans seem so invested in the athletes in a way that seems a little mentally unstable to those of us who are unused to viewing celebrities this way? Is this particular to just FS in Asian countries or are the fandoms in other sports in those countries just as rabid? I don't want to make sweeping racial generalizations, but as annoying and fangirly as NA fans can be, I don't see that they have the same possessive, pathological relationship with their athletes. Or am I wrong and the few crazies we've seen aren't representative of the fandom of an entire region?

r433 I think that the crazies are just loud and talked about so more visible. Have you ever followed another sport as closely as FS? I suspect that it would have it's share of crazies, especially if unmarried athletes were involved. Soccer's probably on a whole different level, as might be tennis.

I've seen something of what's going on amongst the fans of singers and bands, American/European ones, and that's where the real crazies are.

R434I think you're right and I honestly regretted my comment as soon as I posted it because I hate to generalize based on just a small sample. I follow baseball and tennis very closely, but haven't seen the same degree of intrusiveness into the athletes' lives. Or maybe I'm not visiting the right sites. I don't follow celebrity culture, but from the little I've seen, I don't disbelieve you.

R433. I have not seen or heard fans from NA act as crazy with their athletes as I have elsewhere. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I have however heard about very insane fans acting nuts towards singers and celebrities. Example going to same hotel as celebrity. One was such an out of control nutcase that a singers management had to send the nutcase a letter to take her website down.

R422 She rented a banquet room for the meeting and got Nathan a cake, but she hasn't explained how the money was used and there are still no reports from anyone about the meeting, which is highly unusual. You'd think someone who have leaked at least something. I assume she became a Mao anti because she was kept away and didn't feel acknowledged.

R422 Yes and probably.

R433 Football/soccer fans in Europe and South America kill each other every year and sometimes their athletes. They might not have hooligans or nationalist games but baseball and tennis fandoms are also intense and sometimes violent. Figure skating fans argue online? The sport is very small, so it's far easier to spot the crazies. But the crazies aren't representative of the fans, including the Asian fans. Western athletes and pop stars seem to get more violent stalkers, which is why they are kept further from the public and have stronger security.

Nationalist games should be nationalist gangs.

R431 I see what you mean - but I think those mannequin makers didn't get his legs quite rate. His trousers hang on all three costumes in the photo, but in real life, and you see his legs really well when he's skating, the pants are much tighter. They probably weren't worried as much about the legs being thicker - it just gets difficult to get every measurement right. They did need to get the shoulders and waist right though because if the tops hung loosely that would be noticed more. Anyway, that's just what I think. I also think Yuzuru goes through a lot of weight swings. He's said when he's nervous he can't eat - so I imagine with all the tumult in his life, he goes through a lot of extra-nervous spells, and then more relaxed ones. I may be crazy but the first two ice shows this summer I thought he looked bigger, more filled out -- then after Nagano, he looked much skinnier, like he'd lost 10 pounds or something.

And R419, your crazy fan lady story sounds so much like one I ran into that I gasped. There was a fan of Derek Hough (Dancing with the Stars pro) and she got to know him (or meet him a few times) by involving herself in some charity and then approaching him to help (before him was some other athlete I can't remember now...)

Well, Derek probably ghosted her or something - and she turned to Tristan MacManus who was WAY too helpful because he was sweet and/or naive. He let her do a raffle of tickets and the winner would get a personal dance lesson with him (and this crazy lady) traveling to the raffle-ticket buyer's home. She raised a bunch of money, had a few hundred tickets, and later she let down her guard and told a fellow fan (and I read this myself) that she read through the tickets and found one from Hawaii! He did the drawing but she stuffed the tickets with all Hawaii ones - and she, herself, got to fly with Tristan to Honolulu, stay in the same hotel, she took a bunch of photos in his hotel room and posted them online, with him looking like a kidnap victim lol.

Anyway, he survived that, then she threw a big group meeting - and managed to have him staying with her at a hotel in a nearby but different city from the meeting! (New Jersey). She later recounted a big fight they had (him and her) when driving an hour or so to the meeting -- and although she had promised lots of photos of the meeting, and videos, she never released them because she was pissed. I'm sure she's stalked and targeted yet someone else by now. Truly INSANE. And cheated the raffle ticket buyers to boot!!

The head honchos of these fan groups are frequently pretty insane narcissists -- they feed on the power that their access to a celebrity gives them -- and they feel extra special in having that access (and "affection" from the star.) Which sounds just like your lady who moved from Mao to Yuzuru to Nathan... Obsessive fandom has some mental illness facets and seems the craziest rise to the top (remind you of anyone ahemmm)

This fs arguing and some of the harassment I have seen from Hanyu antis baffles me. I don't remember this before when I watched during Johnny Weir's time? I stopped watching fs for a bit after he retired from competition. Was it always like this or was I just lucky enough not to see it? lol

* quite rate should have been "quite right"

R440 I think it's a lot worse because of the Internet. Finding likeminded people is emboldening - gives you ways to target not only other fans but the celebrity who's the rival of your beloved, etc. It's a scarier world now for celebs. And even fans. I knew of a fan group of a fictional couple on a soap opera (of all ridiculous things) --- they hated the fan group of a rival fictional couple (same guy - different onscreen lover.)

One group was walking to a big fan meetup for the whole show, and some members of the other group were driving by -- they pretended like they were gonna run over them but slammed on the brakes at the last minute, laughing uproariously at how terrified the near-victims were.

And wasn't a singer murdered by her former fan-group maven, who she turned into an assistant? Selena?? Now I can't remember, but some of these people are TRULY not right in the head. See Jodie Foster's fan John Hinckley. Usually the male obsessors are more violent, like John Lennon's killer, but women can be too. A woman broke into David Letterman's home when he was away, told people at stores and such she was his wife, ended up in prison!

No wait - not sure she ended up in prison - she had a toddler and I think David declined to press charges. But probably invested in some bodyguards. Like Hanyu - I wish he had them 24/7 -- I think I read the fed only pays for them during comps?

Daisuke Takahashi desribing other skaters in one word – his English is cute. Yuzuru is “king” !! Shoma is “bulldozer” ??? Javi = spring. Boyang = toy top. Nathan = handsome.

R442. Yes Selena was murdered by that crazy lady. I can see why Hanyu is basically locked up in his home. He may be an introvert but I'm sure he would love to just go outside and take a walk or hike in the mountains. I actually find it incredibly sad that there are people who are so obsessed that he can't have that feeling of normal in his life.

r444 Javi=spring ? Dad's mind is a weird place sometimes. (as we already know)

LOL if you watch the video, when Dai says Javi = spring, he moves his hand in a way to show something springing up - and the video-maker shows Javi doing jumps, springing up high into the air :) The funniest to me was Shoma being a bulldozer. And I was surprised that Dai could say something positive about Yuzuru lol.

Although I always remember a quote from him (Dai) during Pyeongchang: Hanyu tends to explode during his performance. Uno just keeps going at his own pace. Boyang doesn't get shaken by anything else going on around him. Chan, Kolyada and Chen tend to make mistakes and when they do they get dragged down by their own mistakes.

R445, in the very long series of interviews in "Kenji's Room" or whatever it was called -- Yuzuru said that if he hadn't become a skater, he thinks he would have been an extrovert, a very social person, but skating had always made that impossible, even when he was a child. He didn't play with other children after school - he went to the rink and focussed on practicing almost all the time when he wasn't studying, and that pattern continued (he was 20 or so at the time.)

Also about Shoma, Yuzuru said: He's so steady, so stable. He's very strong. I wish I could be like him.

r427 can't say I disagree...

R448 iirc, he didn't say anything about being an extrovert, only that he wasn't a classic introvert, and that even though he didn't get to hang out with his school buddies much, he got most of his hanging-out-with-buddies fix from playtime at school and from horsing around with his buddies at the rink so he didn't feel as though he missed out on all that much.

For whoever was wondering about Hanyu's use of the word "idol":

Idol, to us, is a word with an etymology. We see it in religious texts and use it in everyday life to express certain concepts. But to the Japanese, the word "idol" is an imported English word. It's literally just a word that points to pop stars, like pop singers and boy bands. That's why he said he's not that. He's not saying he's not a celebrity, but "idols" in Japan are youths who are signing away their right to date and have a social life so that their agencies can milk their fans' crazy fantasies.

According to recent studies, celebrity culture is closely related to depression and unhappiness with one's own reality. Japan and Korea are known to be dazzling on the outside but with a lot of unhappy people in the inside, with high depression and suicide rates, a huge stigma on mental health issues, and a conformist (especially Japan) culture that doesn't allow you to express yourself uniquely very much. This could speak to why idol culture is so strong there - if someone's following this pop star, everyone else should do it too, etc. There are for sure plenty of crazy stalkers of celebrities in the west as well, but in the USA for example you're not made to feel like a loser for not liking the latest boy band.

r447 lol, oh I see, now it makes sense. It's actually a pretty aptt description of Javi. The bulldozer Shoma is clever too, he just goes forth unaffected by mistakes.

I think that perhaps too much is being made of Dai's attitude towards Hanyu, it's been a few years, people get over things.

R451. I don't know if Dai attitude has changed. I saw another video and probably you all did as well . I will go find it in my Twitter DM. We all can interpret it however we want. let me go get that tweet and post it.

I hope that's true R451 - it does seem that most of nastiness comes from the fans toward Hanyu. Dai just does sort of passive-aggressive stuff, like not post any pictures of Yuzuru on his Instagram during the Olympics while posting other Japanese athletes; saying he won't interview him and his network having to assign someone else to do it, saying he's returning to skating the very night before Hanyu meets with Shinzo Abe for that award...

Well, you know, maybe passive-aggressive is a bit too weak a term now that I think of it, lol, but jealousy is a powerful thing, and he's got a lot to be jealous of - Hanyu is a bona fide phenom and they don't come around very often. You know, an outsider looking in (which I used to be, knowing nothing of Dai/anti behavior) could wonder why Yuzuru is ALL OVER foreign skaters like Plushenko, Weir, and Lambiel, (and Javier but they're rinkmates) and yet rarely mentions Takahashi and the one before that, Honda (though I'll never forget the video I saw with Honda clutching stuffed Winnie the Pooh bears in the kiss and cry, all those years ago!)

I may well be misremembering this - but someone in an interview asked Hanyu about Dai, and he said something close to, "Well, somebody had to come along after Honda." I shouldn't read too much into that though - due to Japanese-English translations etc. and this may have been after Dai/Dai-fans treated him so badly.

Thanks R450 - the added context means a lot when one is trying to understand athletes, celebrity, fandom, through western eyes when it's a whole different thing in a vastly different culture like Asia and more specifically, Japan. I'll never truly understand it - it's hard enough to understand our own shippers and Twilight Saga crazies etc.

Yess R451 - I want to see it!!

I meant R452 - I want to see the newest Dai outrage !! Oh skating gods, please keep watch over pretty baby Yuzu!

Ok. Like I said we can interpret how we want. That's what makes us unique. I took this interview as Dai is jealous. I'm sorry after everything I have read about him I can't like him. I try and then find something else.

It's not outrage. I just call Dai fake. How is he going to respond on the. Olympic channel? I wish I had a juicy video of outage from him. You all probably saw the video anyway if you follow Olympic channel

I think he's actually saying he's jealous! Well, I guess there's something to be said for candor. I'm even more perplexed by those stories of Dai throwing his phone at people and having tantrums. I'm beginning to think he may be a borderline or narcissist or something like that, sheesh. Most people can keep their rage/envy under wraps - and you'd think that would go double for a Japanese!

I'm already dreading Nationals. To think, Yuzuru had to miss them two years in a row, putting a huge pressure on him this year, when it would be such a good year to have to miss (instead of the other two.) And yeah, I know they were unavoidable but I'm truly concerned. But surely it can't be as bad as 2012-13. Hanyu must have many more fans now than he did then! And Dai may have even lost a few. Oh well, fingers crossed both skaters stay health all year -- I don't mean to wish anything bad on anyone -- I'm just nervous.

R455 The most offensive thing about that video is his hair. Good god man, why are you fighting the hot. Not defending anything else Dai has done, but isn't it pretty human to feel a little jealous when you've made great strides in your sport for your country (first Asian male olympic medalist, world champion etc.) and then someone comes not long after and overshadows everything you've accomplished? And even little Shoma does better than you at the Olys in his first try and doesn't seem to even care that much about it?

R453. I also don't like how Dai left pictures. of Hanyu off instagram. Seriously? Can he be more obvious how he feels? He does know there is an option to disable comments right? He must know.

It wasn't too long ago that Dai went all blond! The current "style" is much better than that, at least. When people with fairly dark complexions go blond, well, I just don't get it. I'm not sure I've ever liked it on any Asians, ever the lighter ones. Speaking of weird hair, I was watching some competition - don't remember the year - but Adam Rippon was all gray !! Ugh.

All that said, I like Shoma's red highlights, just like his coach - is her nickname really Fluffy? He can't do any wrong in my eyes I guess - can't wait to see his Moonlight Sonata. And I'm even more anxious to hear what Yuzuru's programs for 2018-19 are. I'm still wondering if he's gonna bring back Let's Go Crazy - someone reported they saw him skating it this summer, not that that's conclusive or anything. And I believe he's on record saying he had NEW programs. Hurry up, Yuzu - everybody else has told us!!

[quote] Speaking of weird hair, I was watching some competition - don't remember the year - but Adam Rippon was all gray !!

probably one of the Gran Prixs 2015. He was gray with some violet lights

Oh my. I was reading the translations I didn't even notice that dreadful hair on Takahashi. I also believe he is a narcissist. I worry a bit for Hanyu. I also think because he is older and more aware of how things are he will be just fine. Takahashi just better not do a Tonya Harding.

Just like Grandma with a blue rinse lol. Speaking of which, I did see Hanyu with a vivid blue streak in his hair once - but it was an ice show and may have just been a one-time spray-on thing. I think Elvis used to put blue in his hair (which was medium brown in real life but he dyed it jet black).

Oh god, you said what I'd been thinking - either Dai or a fan being involved in a Tonya. It's TOO LATE DAI! You'll never get those gold medals away from him so just give it up! (joking of course but this kind of thing is so unsettling - when crazed fans get involved and seem to be egged on by their obsessee).

Grandma looked good with the blue hair!

Oh mercy oh Adam!! I've been following him on Instagram and I'm all geared up to see him judge little kids doing ballroom dancing lol. Hope there's room for both him and Johnny doing the reality shows - Johnny was great on the wedding cake championship though I questioned my sanity watching that garbage.

I love the preview of "The Ice." Shoma's program(s) look amazing - maybe those are triples, but his jumps look really crisp and clean, technique wise. At about 2.30 I think there's a bit of his Moonlight Sonata which I think suits his dramatic skating really well - his coach is a genius. (or he is - he can do warhorses and breathe new life to them, like Turandot last year). And at the end, there's a bit of the tribute to Denis Ten, showing him in a video over the ice. I probably won't figure out how to watch this but I'd like to.

R463. Goodness if Dai or his fans tried anything like a tonya I think we would have an all out war between Hanyu and Dai fans. And not just an internet war either. I can't even imagine.

R466. Thanks for sharing. Shomas jumps are looking really good. Beautiful in fact. I can't wait to see how he does this coming season.

2018 Asian Open Figure Skating Trophy Advanced Novice Girls:

1 ALYSA LIU USA 138.45 1 1

2 Sara HONDA JPN 128.03 2 2

3 Hana YOSHIDA JPN 121.93 3 3

4 TZU-HAN TING TPE 111.04 4 5

5 Indi CHA USA 108.15 5 4

6 ELLEN SLAVICEK USA 96.05 7 6

7 JOELLE LIN TPE 88.40 9 7

8 GIO LEE KOR KOR 85.68 6 11

9 YEJIN YUN KOR 82.18 10 8

10 HENGXIN JIN CHN 82.14 8 9

Alysia Liu became the youngest female skater to land a triple axel (3A-2T) at an international competition. Hana Yoshida landed a clean 3A in practice, but did not do one for the competition. Should the Russian quadsters be worried?

R450 Idol refers to a specific type of popstar and idol culture began in the 60s. The 80s during the bubble era when cash was flowing is considered its golden age. Youth suicide in Japan has always been lower than the OECD average, and even lower than North America. Suicides have always been dominated by the 50+ crowd especially since the economic downturn after the bubble burst in the 90s when many lost job and financial security. The suicide rate has been declining for the last several years.

Idol culture and fans are not viewed as normal by Japanese society at all today. You are far more likely to labeled as “creepy” and out of touch with society for being one. That goes for men and women. The average age of idol fans is also quite high, which is another reason why they’re perceived as abnormal. The figure skating fans who stalk and harass are fairly wealthy women in their forties or fifties to seventies who don't work thanks to their husbands. I think the combination of loneliness and nothing to do plays some role in their behavior.

Takahashi and Hanyu always give praise (to an extent) when asked about each other because it’s the polite thing to do. The Nathan comment is interesting, but it’s too bad they didn’t ask about Kolyada. And it looks like a camera crew accompanied Takahashi and Murakami on their trip to Niagra Falls, so we’ll get to see some Dice in whatever they’re filming (and maybe find out what those “projects” are).

Seniors start tomorrow at the Thai Challenger

From today's practices:

Ryom/Kim are recycling the same SP for a third year in a row

Peng/Jin are doing La vie en rose. Not sure if SP or FS

Tonya?

Guys, do you remember the psycho who was accusing Hanyu fans of being satisfied that Ten was murdered? Even suggesting that Dai might do a Tonya, even as a joke, is the same level of crazy. Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm playing the role of a Takahashi defender, but what's wrong with you people.

Jealousy is a strong emotion. I may have missed the psycho poster who posted about that. I'm not saying Dai would do something. Some of his fans however are on a level that is beyond crazy and need to be watched. I get this sense from Dai's craziest fans that this is his time now. He deserves it all.

You delusional no- livers [R472] and [ R473] . I am not dai fan. But i know more I say that you more often reoeat that. just to make a noise. childish japanese idiots.. Thats what troll do..And you re trolls .and I said thats they MUST BE GLAD WHAT HAPPENED TO TEN REGARDING WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT HIM BACK THEN> WHEN THEN WISHED HIM DEATH!!!! I didnt get that FROM NOWHERE TROLLS. IF they didnt post such terrible stuff about Dennis I WOULDNT post my comment myself. YOU GOT THAT IDIOTS or you will be changing reality TO YOUR ADVANTAGE???what a fucking losers hahahaha

I wanted to say something about the idol thing. I'm on Twitter a lot and I do see tweets saying Hanyu is their idol. Is this a younger generation thing to call a figure skater an idol? Do older fans think this way? I see him as a great athlete. In fact I don't really call anyone including singers idols. I know Hanyu has said he isn't an idol which is true. If these younger people are referring to him as idol are they holding him to the same standards as a kpop star? They really have no life of their own. I'm bringing this up because I just saw some tweets just now calling him idol.

Never mind. I think I know what Dai troll you're talking about. I think they just posted. Yikes!

[R476] Yes, THEY posted. Are you sane or insane?.ITs just me #HAnyuretartedfan comes back talking to his multiple accounts.

R472 I agree. Let's not go too far out with all the speculation. Dai has done plenty of questionable things, but there's no need to go crazy imagining all the things he and his fans might do.

Closet case Grant Hochstein officially announces retirement. Expected decision.

Of course he's retiring, he needs to look fresh faced and fabulous for the wedding.

Is it really likely that Dai can mount any kind of serious challenge to the top skaters at Japanese nationals? How does the Japanese Federation feel about him--or any older skater past his or her prime--returning to competition after a long absence?

Dai's PCS will be as high as mine

r475 Those Twitter fans, were they English-speaking or Japanese? English speaking fans probably meant the western definition of "idol" as "someone inspiring", "someone I want to be like". Hanyu probably meant the Japanese definition of "idol" as "member of entertainment industry".

I saw this and it shows just how much Yuzuru loves his mom. She says something like your mom is over there? And his face just tells how he feels.

Thanks for replying R483. They were English speaking. I understand better now what idol means for them and the difference between how the west and Japanese use the word idol.

Hanyu just appeared in latest Javier Raya's IG story

Japan might have lower suicide rates, but the happiness scale is an issue that's been long talked about, especially in middle age. Middle-aged men stuck in lifeless jobs and stay-at-home moms with nothing to look forward to except their kids growing up. Divorce when the dad finally retires and mom can't stand to see him because she never really got to see him much for decades. Etc. etc.

I was mentioning the connection between celebrity idolization and likelihood of depression and low self esteem because it kinda connects the dots if you look at the demographics. Prepubescent teenage girl idols and the widespread cultural lenience with lolita / sexualization of younger girls (don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've lived there a long time, it's everywhere) aimed at lonely, balding men in Japan. Gentle, mature-but-still-young K-drama actors aimed at lonely Japanese moms that don't have men around because their husbands live in tiny apartments near work for decades and don't come home. It's not a matter of what age is more normal for this stuff, it just shows the symptoms of that society's alienation and loneliness when you look at the demographics idol culture is aimed at.

Anyway I saw the recent clip of Dai calling Hanyu "king" and Shoma "bulldozer", Boyang a "toy top" and Javi a "spring"... he seems fine calling Hanyu king, maybe he's not as crazy petty as people claim he is from when he was younger? Except calling Nathan handsome, come on Dai, I expected you to have higher standards.

R487 It's sounding more and more like Dai has the hots for Nathan.

In order of degree of outrage, I am most offended by Dai's 1) taste in men; 2) hair. What self respecting Asian gay would think Nathan's handsome? Cute personality, sure. But that can be said for many ugly people.

R486. Here is a repost of the ig story.

r490 lol. That's a terrible pic of Hanyu... here's an example, in case you've never seen his double chin.

Awww I think he's cute in that picture. But then I think Nathan Chen is cute too.

r489 hmm. I, however, think Nathan is cute but has a boring personality.

It is funny to see Dai openly declaring his attraction to Nathan.

I am in total agreement about the atrocious hair though. He used to be so stylish. This is an offense to gay men.

R493 I'm adding you to my list.

R491. Omg he looks adorable! I actually love this photo of him.

Given how fabolous I am, everyone will look bad next to me

I don't find Nathan cute nor his personality attracting

Daisuke's hairstyle is atracious

Meanwhile, OriginalJavi posted this on Instagram with a hetero couple emoji. So defensive!!

Link for Asian Open steaming tomorrow

order is

Rhythm Dance (1.30PM local time)

Pairs SP

Ladies SP

Men SP

R497 Daisuke Takahashi's hair matches his personality. Awful

Nathan I do find cute. He seems pretty shy. Now on the ice Nathan's personality needs a lot of work. It's a struggle for him to smile.

r497 lol. At least we can agree on some things.

r498 I've wondered if Javi #1 has been so open about his girlfriends in part in reaction to all the Hanyu shipping.

r499 thanks. It'll be good to see some competitive skating.

random observation: anyone else think Hanyu's body proportions look similar to Aliona Savchenko's? Now I want to see him in that Pink Panther outfit

For comparison

R501 Hanyu's boobs are bigger though.

R501 When did the Hanyu/Javi shipping even start? I feel like Javi's always been pretty open about his girlfriends. Some of the comments on his insta are dumb, so I wouldn't blame him for being self-conscious and sick of the whole thing.

r504 Not sure. I think the earliest I've seen was the 2013/2014 season but I wasn't that into skating during the Chan quad

R503 Literally. He might be able to fill an A cup

AA at best. Probably AAA

R507 There's AAA? Is that for concave boobs?

R501 you're not alone. I want Hanyu in that pink outfit too. I actually love him in pink.

One of my favorite outfits.

R487 I absolutely agree that idol cuture today deliberately targets a certain type of lonely and isolated person. But your comment, “in the USA for example you're not made to feel like a loser for not liking the latest boy band” is an odd statement to make when fans of idols are quite old and not considered normal or conformist in the least, but stigmatized, just as figure skating fans are perceived as strange. You brought up suicide rates and I just stated the facts.

By the way, if you’ve lived in Japan and understand Japanese, why do you always and only bring up Korean popstars or actors when talking specifically about Japanese figure skaters or idol culture? You did the same in previous threads. You also said, “One of the biggest reasons that K-drama is so popular in China and Japan, for example, were apparently that viewers thought Korean actresses were the most beautiful of the Asian actresses,” “I wonder if Johnny's popularity in Japan has anything to do with the fact that Hanyu is his fanboy? “ “Eh, I don't go into Japanese Tumblr (do they use Tumblr?)” “I have no idea how Japanese fans interact online,” which is very surprising for someone who’s lived in Japan for a long time, not to mention follows Japanese figure skating and pop culture.

R499 Thanks for the link! Only a few hours left to go.

R498 Fernandez was engaged to ice dancer Cortney Mansour until he started dating Miki Ando in 2014 and was very open about the relationship and gushing on social media. I think that’s just his personality. If he was concerned about shipping, I don’t think he’d pat and rub Hanyu’s body so much.

Why are figure skating fans so...odd?

R498 should be r501.

R507 I had a friend with them. They look like really flat pecs. She just wore bras for the padding since push ups don't work when there is nothing to push up. A company makes AAAA now.

Is Javi that touchy with everyone? He's friends with Chan as well but I've only ever noticed it with Hanyu. But I don't pay much attention to Javi

Meant r508

Is Raya gay? Sorry I don't know. I think he and Hanyu are cute together. And Hanyu looks like he loves being close to Raya.

R516 Yes, Raya is gay.

Here's a a link to a short clip of Dai skating to The Sheltering Sky, his new SP. I'm a fan of Dai's skating, but I don't get this one. His movements don't match the mood of the music. He's emoting all over the place in the most dramatic fashion and the music is just kind of pleasant and mellow.

R518 It's like someone cast Al Pacino in a Merchant/Ivory film.

And told him it was Scent of a Woman.

OMG he's Evgenia on speed.

Here's a longer clip of Dai - and he does what I think is a triple axel (I suck at identifying jumps).

He said though: "My jumps have come back up to 3A with no problem, which gives me confidence." (according to someone at Golden Skate)

It's catching! It's Nathan on speed. (note: I have no idea what "Caravan" is)

And he's joining the crowd who can't keep their hands off of Shoma:

"Reports indicate that Nathan skated Caravan at the Sat afternoon showing of The Ice. The trio all landed their 3As, and Nathan patted Shoma on the head with both hands."

Team Raf IG account post Caravan vid!:

Trying link again

Rhythm Dance

1) Parsons/Parsons 64.47

2) Wang/Liu 63.60

3) Komatsubara/Koleto 60.78

4) Ning/Wang 43.71

5) Kerry/Dodds 43.53

6) North Koreans 34.82

Paris SP

1. Peng/Jin 71.54

2. Ryom/Kim 60.40

Link to Ladies livestream

I am not sure if it's bad quality of the camera or the ice looks terrible

R516 Raya was dumped by his boyfriend mid way Helsinki Worlds. I wonder what he has done....

But the story about him (posted on a previous thread here) is that after SP at Boston Worlds he went to sit among spectators to watch the rest...and he was nice and talked with all the fans there....and basically gave his number to every cute guy....

Ladies SP

1) Eunsoo LIM 68.09

2) Starr Andrews 62.60

3) Yi Christy LEUNG 57.99

4) Yuna SHIRAIWA 54.47

5) Hongyi CHEN 53.06

6) Mako YAMASHITA 50.97

etc

Men SP

1. Tsao (Taipei) 65.57

2.Byun (South Korea) 65.47

3. Sumoto (Japan) 63.65

4. Wong (Hong Kong) 58.78

5.Sunghoon Park (South Korea) 58.62

6. Yamamoto (Japan) 57.92

etc

r527

Yamamoto only 57? I was hoping he'd start climbing back.

R528 No quad (ok, it was expected and didn't need it in that field), no 3A and no 3+3 either. Add an unclear edge called on the 3Lz and hands down in the second jump of the combo (-4/-5)

The protocols have some funny marks (first throw of Ryom/Kim ranged from +4 to -2...LOL!) but they aren't too much all over the place given that it was the first competiton with the new system.

Who was Judge #1 giving 4s on Stsqs everyone else was giving 1s to? Hopefully the scoring stabilizes soon.

R530 In Men SP? If so, it was Todd Bromley from USA.

He was also judge2 in Ladies where he marked Eunsoo Lim with almost all 8.75 (and a 9 in Interpretation) and judge5 in Pairs (the one giving Ryom/Kim +4 on that throw). He also scored 7s in PCS to the never seen before boy from North Korea. And his choreo was "jump, preparation, I move my hands, preparation, jump, there is the climax in the music, so I move my arms again"

He just liked everyone!

R526. I wonder too what he did for his boyfriend to leave. If he was giving his phone number then forget him with Yuzu. I want Yuzu to have someone that isn't giving out their phone numbers to strangers. Yuzu deserves the best!

R531 Thanks, yes Men SP. He also gave Yamamoto the highest PCS scores of all the judges, so I guess you're right!

R532 We know, Yumi. No one's good enough for your precious!

Of course no one is good enough for our precious Yuzu. However, if Javi was not straight, I would find him quite an acceptable match for our darling boy. Even Daddy Orser could not resist getting photos of the two of them hugging their hearts out at the Olympics.

R535. Exactly! Hanyu has been through so much in his life. He deserves someone very Caring and gentle with him.. I was thinking Boyang or Jason Brown? Javi Fernandez would be my first choice but........

If you're going to go all fangurl and ship you need to do it right and ship him with the dirtiest sluttiest slut, which likely means someone French. Put two sheltered virgins together and all you're going to get is awkwardness and tears.

r537 Who do you think are sheltered virgins? Aren't those skating competitions like, Sodom and Gomorrah? Anybody past 18 would get their chance to lose their virtue.

Medviedeva is a virgin. Hanyu also..

Sorry I threw it out there but have given 0 thought to the sheltered virgins. Only interested in the confirmed and rumored sluts.

Evgenia will eventually be with another Russian figure skater. How about Hanyu and Weir? He can teach him tons of things. Plus Weir seems nice and a good person.

Even if he ends up marrying a girl I think we can safely say Hanyu likes his men big and muscly. Like if Ohtani Shohei was gay(and better looking) he'd be climbing him like a tree.

Johnny said he and Stephane Lambiel tried to date but they both wanted to be the girl, so it didn't work out. So are there enough Eric Radford's to go around?

But you bring up a good point with Ohtani - probably need a Japanese-speaker. Is Jason learning Japanese to hook up with Hanyu? And all this time we've been blaming Evgenia lol.

Big and muscly? What are you basing it on, r542? He seems to be all over all kinds of guys.

R544 I think there was a video of Javier trying to lift him and failing so now he's moved on to the ice dance and pairs men. One of the chinese ice dancers always takes pictures carying him bridal style at every competition they meet and then I've seen pictures of Hanyu and some japanese cheerleading guys lifting him so I guess he enjoys them stronger men.

Does Hanyu Like to play the girl role too? If not then perfect for Weir.

I vote for Ohtani. No language barrier, big beefy dude that can easily lift him up like he loves and that interview of them at some Japanese awards show 2 years ago was really something. They were both acting like school girls with a crush, barely meeting each other's eyes, sprouting dumb words and lauging awkwardly.

Nathan's long program has been posted in the Figure Skating XVIII thread. And Shoma's is linked. Both are going big on being emotive - and I hope that plain blue long-sleeve plain tee isn't Nathan's costume but it probably is. Anyway, so far, despite the fall, I like Shoma's better, but they're both sort of doing Hanyu's style imo. He's gonna have his hands full I think. Wonder if Boyang will go whimsical, with all this heavy drama from, well, at least Nathan and Shoma.

By 4 Continents will Shoma show up with a yellow version of that costume ?

R547. They would be perfect for each other! As long as Hanyu is treated like the princess I mean the Prince he is.

Hmmm. Sexual tension between Kanako Murakami and Shoma? I thought she was Yuzuru's girlfriend - well, closest approximation....

Kana: it’s the first time we’ve talked properly like this, should I be proper and call you Uno-senshu?

Shoma: Nah. I think if they picked you for this that’s not what they’re looking for.

Kana asks if Sho remembers anything in partic about their time together.

Sho: I'm sorry about the fight we had...

Kana: Oh yeah. Let me explain. I was ignored for 1-2 years. I messed with him too much when he was going through puberty.

Sho: lol I would just get embarrassed...

Kanako was never Yuzuru's girlfriend not even pretend one. Only stupid fraus like the ones shipping Adam Rippon and Yuna Kim were shipping them. And iirc she is (was?) dating a guy from her university.

Zagitova's SP. I agree with the reports that the music editing is very jarring and the program seems disjointed. It might have worked better if it was a long program. What was her team thinking. She's also a lot taller.

Well, R552, that's why I said "closest approximation" - i.e., it was a joke.

It's almost they condensed the whole POTO in these 3 minutes and used one different piece for each element

R553 Poor Alina deserves better than this mess. Can someone save her from Danil and Eteri.

Omg. Zagitova is beautiful skater it's sad to see this. Maybe it still needs to be brushed up. I hope so because I'm not sure she can win with this as it is right now.

I went ahead and made a new thread. Looks like we may need it soon.

Here is the show featuring Zagitova in yukata (summer kimono) in Kyoto, Marin Honda 's move to the US, and the Kansai/Chubu skaters, as well as some The Ice performances including Satoko Miyahara, Kaori Sakamoto, and Mai Mihara's new programs. Oda skated to YMCA. It probably won't be up for very long.

Part 2 continues with Zagitova and Marin, the story of the Kansai University rink with Takahashi and Oda, and The Ice performances by Marin and Miyu Honda, Zagitova, Chen, and Uno.

The Denis Ten tribute is in the second video at 18:27.

A different broadcast of The Ice that has the group numbers, Jin Boyang's SP "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," longer version of the Denis Ten tribute, Kanako Murakami's interview with Uno, the skaters touring Kyoto and the Jin-Uno-Chen number. Still missing the Russian boys, Mura, Daleman, Bell, Mirai, pairs, dance, juniors and novices.

I don't think Shoma's short program Stairway to Heaven has been posted - if so, I apologize - but I really like it. I love the use of his upper body and arms. There's something he does after his jumps - a kind of flourish with his whole arm - I think that adds so much. Hanyu often puts a kind of exclamation point on his quads with a quick double fist pump or something -- I think it makes the jumps seem more important.

In the past, I don't remember Chen doing that but I think he should - maybe he will. I did notice him putting a lot more emotion in his latest program, but I also thought I saw him hunching over at one point. Well, I'm sure they'll all work on details -- but I think Shoma might be my focus this season. He also looks like he's been working out - his arms are more muscular looking. Could the little bulldozer break through and beat the king? or the handsome Chinese-American or sorta goofy Chinese national? And then there's Kolyada and Brown but can they land their jumps? I'm excited about the men.

Not so much the women but Alina looks gorgeous - like a young Carolina, with the long limbs. A shame about the chaotic choreography - maybe it'll get fixed? Are Eteri and Danlil always so negligent?

Boyang needs to dump his choreographer. His program is empty and he is capable of doing so much more. It's like they're trying to fuck up his career on purpose.

Moonlight Sonata doesn't fit Shoma's skating style. I don't understand why he would choose this music after P/C's beautiful program. It just highlights how lacking his interpretation is.

It beggars belief why anyone would travel from China to Canada to get this choreography. Surely they have Chinese choreographers specializing in dated, empty, amateurish programs.

In the interview with Kanako, Uno said the FS is just jump after jump right now and he'll need to really work on it. Takahashi also used Moonlight Sonata for a SP, so they'll probably be compared Speaking of Takahashi, on the show in 559, he said that fans have sent him men's thongs.

R595 Maybe there is some truth to what Dave heard about Orser objecting to Lori choreographing Boyang's programs.

R566 Normally, I don't even pay attention to the introduction of new programs and just tune in when the competition begins. This has been one of those strange off seasons, with momentum from the Olympics and so much happening that I couldn't help but engage. Maybe that's why all these programs look bad to me, because I'm unused to their being so unpolished. Anyway, there's still plenty of time, so hopefully everyone's programs will come together.

Can you say a little more about the thongs? Was it said in a jokey way, like he was amused or are people doing that to insult him?

Not that there was ever any doubt but Shoma makes a really ugly girl. I would love to see Hanyu do a true cosplay with make-up and hairstyling, not the half assed 'wearing a skirt and pink T and calling it a day' he did a few years ago. I think if he committed to it, he would probably look very pretty.

Yamamoto wins Asian Open with 198 points. Tsao second with 195 and Byun third.

Wang/Liu win Ice Dance over the Parsons who were only third in FD

Peng stayed on her feet and so Peng/Jin outscored Ryom/Kim by a mile

r569 Do you have a link to to Yamamoto's FS? It surprises me that he won, seeing that he was 4th or so I the SP.

R568: Lmao! Aw, but Uno's pretty much half-assing it there as well. He didn't even have makeup on and he still doesn't look as ugly as you seem to be making him out to be. He looks pretty much like how I'd expect him to look in a half-assed effort in crossdressing: basically just him looking his usual self but in a dress...and half-ass Chun Li ribbons. And I'm willing to bet he'd still look prettier than Oda going all out, or even if professional photoshoppers were trying really hard to make the guy look pretty.

Speaking of which, I've seen a rendering by the latter of Hanyu in full girl makeup, and that's the closest I've ever seen him in makeup (even though he wasn't really *in* makeup per se but you get what I mean).

R571 your love for Shoma makes you blind. He could never pass for a girl even with proper make up because of his too big head and potato features. When he was younger he had a very small head and looked like a mouse so he was sometimes mistaken for one. At least Lipnitskaia did confuse him once but now his head and neck are quite big and none of his facial features apart from his eyes (but not his deeply set brows) are feminine. It's ok. People like him for the cute puppy looks not the Akihabara maid potential. Hanyu on the other hand would need very little to make the perfect trap: a scarf to cover his adam apple, some light make up and slightly longer hair. For instance I had to do a double take when I first saw this picture from last year's Autumn classics because of how ridiculously pretty he looks with this stupid filter.

Kurakova switched countries, to Poland!

Here is the shoma and Hanyu comparison. Shoma can't pull off a girl. But Hanyu definitely can. Like someone said a little longer hair and just a little makeup.

You re creepy.

So glad Yamamoto won! Heard he got his 3a back too.

R572: *laughs nervously* Whatever you say, mate. Whatever you say.

You re gays and you like boys dressing like a woman? Thats doesnt make sense

My colleague at work confused Tomono for a girl. And it was Tomono sitting in the K&C at Worlds

I was just thinking all Tomono needs is longer hair - he wouldn't need the bows/dresses. And is he shorter than Uno? Looks like it. Last I read they were both about 5'3"

He isn't shorter than Shoma. Shoma was wearing his skates in that picture.

R572, r574 & r579: In this same vein, Hanyu apparently gets mistaken for a girl a lot by casual viewers while skating or in the k&c or generally just mucking around rinkside so you're all probably on to something. Looks like there's no need for dresses or makeup when it comes to him. Guy is known to be androgynous especially when he's on ice so I guess it really shouldn't come as a surprise.

LOL ... the conversations skating fans have...

But yeah, I think even with a professional make-up artist Shoma would be a fug girl

Hanyu, how good he would look depends on the angle but he could pass, especially since he has the body for it

Tomono would be really cute in cosplay

We might as well include the other guys in this. No way in hell could Takahashi, Oda, Mura, and Tanaka pass as a girl.

For non -Japanese guys, Kolyada might look good in a wig and makeup

Boyang already has his mom's face and a long, slender body, though not with the waist/hip curve that Hanyu has. Jin could easily pass as a homely girl, though I don't think he'd be any homelier than he looks as a man.

The prettiest is Jun hwan Cha but he's grown into a giant. Already 5'10" and maybe not done? Could fuck up his quad-ability.

R583 yeah Hanyu may have slightly too large shoulders compared to most girls but his waist is really tiny and his waist/hips ratio really gives him curves guys usually don't have. And is it just me or Korobkova looks like a female Jason Brown on this picture.

yes . my analysis: large shoulder , small waist, small dick

I don't think you need to write a master thesis to infer he has a small peen but still I'm curious about your analysis.

R586. How did you come to this conclusion? lol

R587 R588 Please don't be curious, R586 is just the Daitroll, who will follow up with a trolly diatribe about how it's not a Daitroll, but it is.

Please just hit ignore or skip over it, but whatever you do, don't engage and don't feed it after midnight

[R589] DAi has even smaller dick then hanyu. You re wasting your time again, troll. Did you ever saw asian (1,65-170cm)with big dick ?? It is impossible. I know uit is hard for for you (hah whatever it sounds) but thats the true

R589. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even tell. The English wasn't as bad as before.

New thread link

R589 Thanks. Didn't know it was them. Good thing the thread is over.

[R592] haha now you you re embarassing yourself idiot . It wasnt bad before, but you dont know how to admit it.

r573 Who?

Yamamoto's FS: nice music, a bit empty but he delivers well, some nice flourishes. I hope he recovers the 4T.

I know you dont accept that fact, but hanyu or dwarfs like shoma or takahashi must have small dicks. You wouldnt even feel anything haah

R597. You're just being gross at this point.

To the other thread

aready, with daft Trollsuke