Yuzuru Hanyu and other figure skating talk part 3

Seems like Nathan has had a growth spurt recently. He now looks taller than Boyang. Or maybe it's just the hair.

How talk was Nathan before? 5'5"? I don't think that's the hair. He does look like he grew.

Yes, Hanyu could totally pull of a girl if he hid his Adam's apple, and I think Cha and Kolyada as well.

I know we talked about it already, but who's the tallest Men's singles skater currently?

That should say how tall.

R3. That photo makes him look pretty. I can see how some might mistake him for a girl. Especially if they don't know who Hanyu is. Would cha be the tallest. He is what 5'10" already?

R1 I think Nathan's on skates in that photo. He looks shorter than Oda in another photo and Oda is listed as around 164cm or 5'5" but Jin is 170cm (5'7" ).

To answer the question about Takahashi and the thongs, the skaters were talking about the types of gifts they receive and Takahashi said he's gotten men's thongs. They're not a joke but for him to wear. He was laughing about it and seemed flattered that his fans perceive him as a sexy man. He talked about it before many years ago and said he tried them on once because he saw other foreign skaters wearing thongs, but they were too uncomfortable, so he displayed them in his room instead.

Do male skaters generally wear make-up when they perform? I don't see how Hanyu can look so different from photo to photo unless there's at least some makeup involved.

R6 Nathan is clearly taller than Oda. Even last year he was already at least 168cm. Either Oda was wearing his skates in the picture you saw or he had insoles which a lot of Japanese celebrities use. And if Nathan has now grown taller than Jin, he must be around 170cm. Nothing surprising though since he is still very young. The one that is unfortunately not growing anymore is Shoma.

Yuzuru looks like he is wearing makeup here. Eyeliner?

Did a quick search. So far, Nam Nguyen, Maxim Kovtun, and a few others that I don't think are Grand Prix level are the tallest I've seen at 5'11".

The elite men seem to top off at 5'8". Bychenko is 5'9" but I don't think of him as a top guy in spite of his 4th place finish at worlds.

During competitions with how much he is sweating and wiping his face with some towel afterwards there is no way he is wearing heavy make-up. That would be visible. At most he may use some bb cream.

R9 Yeah there were a few times during the ice shows this year where it looked like he had eyeliner but at other times there was a close-up on his face and it looked like he had no make-up so it's a mystery really.

Fentz is another tall one

Some men wear makeup in competititions. During ice resurfacing at Euros during ice dance they showed a bit of backstage and there were a couple of female ice dancers putting the eyeliners on their partner

And Rippon obviously wears heavy makeup

R6 what makes you think Nathan was 168 last year? I've never seen him listed taller than 5'5" / 166 cm and he is significantly shorter than Hanyu at 172 cm. In the photo below, he's shorter than Kolyada who's listed at 168.

Sorry, I'm bad at this referencing thing. I meant r8

R14 you should never use pictures of skaters on the ice when comparing heights because depending on the model of boots and blades or if a skater needs some additional insole to have his skates fit to his feet there can be a difference of several cms. For instance I saw a lot of Hanyu fans last year trying to argue he was 174 or even 175cm while using pictures of him with his skates on when a simple picture with dress shoes show you that he is not taller than 172. See this picture of him and Boyang Jin from last year Worlds. I just need to find one of him and Nathan from last year to compare but in any case Nathan was clearly taller than Oda last year and just slightly shorter than Boyang.

R8 I think you missed my photo in r6. Everyone is wearing their skating boots. Here's another photo. Boyang is cheating but Chen could not be taller even taking that into account. Not sure what Uno has to do with it?

R7, r9, r11 & r13: Nah, as far as I can tell, the guy rarely, if ever, puts gunk on his face. He's also a sweater and is usually pretty much drenched from head to toe after a performance which doesn't lend itself well to makeup. Some skaters do it for shows sometimes but I cant recall ever seen Hanyu do it. His face looks like it would be suited to it but at this point, I'm wondering if the guy himself actually has an aversion to it. Like, his costumes can get pretty out there but maybe he draws the line on makeup or something. Closest thing to makeup I've seen him put on is lip balm and even then, it's only for practical purposes.

So no he wasn't wearing makeup in that swan closeup. He's usually rather photogenic and when he's skating he gets into this zone that amps his photogenicism(??) even more. That picture merely captured him in his zone.

And that pic of him in FaOI, that ain't eyeshadow. I've seen vids of that particular show as well as some of the others and that shadow was only in that show and only over his left eye the lid, which was actually swollen so...it's actually the very thing eyeshadow is often used to fake in shows: a bruise. A real one. Either the guy walked into another glass door or he walked into someone's fist or elbows by accident.

-...his left eyelid* -...fist and elbow*

Sorry I can't seem to Englund...

Zagitova started to use push ups it seems, Pathetic

R18 I don't think he has any aversion to it. There was a photoshoot he did which came out during the Olympics and there they put heavy make-up on him and in the interview on the set he mentioned giddily that he liked it because he felt like a doll. The only issue for him wearing make-up during performances is because he sweats so much.

R20 You are the pathetic one and a creep to be looking closely at an underage girl boobs.

Make up artist

[R20] How do you know how close did i look? You dont have to. it sees at once

R21: Oh yeah. That photoshoot. Actually, photoshoots, TVC shoots, promos and scheduled Tv appearances are where he has makeup on but usually only the natural looking type. That AERA one was the heaviest I've ever seen him made up.

And it's hard to tell whether or not he likes it because the guy has proven to not be a diva (based on multiple accounts of people who have worked with him and/or interviewed him) and is seemingly amiable to whatever people need to do in order to do their jobs. So he isn't about to complain and tell others not to do it when he damn well knows they have to. He usually laughs things off or look on the positive side of things so it's hard to tell. Like, he's great at styling his own hair but many a time, when left to stylists, they eff it up. And the guy simply grins and bears it. He basically makes like a doll and lets them do whatever they want with him. He's made that comment on more than one occasion, when he had to stand around and let others dress him, not just the AERA photoshoot.

So my impression of his aversion is more based on his tolerance and that he seems to not put it on himself on his own volition, even when there's opportunity to. Maybe he's not averse but he certainly doesn't seem to want to bother.

r20 is the psycho from the other thread. If you guys aren't blocking because you're too curious to not see the posts, keep in mind that you can still see what s/he's writing if you look in the ignored posters tab. So far, I haven't seen anything entertaining or of substance from that poster.

It's also useful if you're sick of a certain conversation. You can temporarily block the posters involved then periodically check to see if they've moved on, though normally you can tell by other people's references.

R23: Oh wow. Is that recent? Tanaka's looking great.

...and so is Tomono. If I didn't know that was him I'd have thought it was a gal...

Oh yeah. Which reminds me, Jin seems to kind of like putting on makeup as well, doesn't he? I mean, i that thing he did with Ge is anything to go by.

[R26] Stop whining like a cunt, quenn. Behave like a man. All you do is talking about make ups. yeah thats entartaining. for you. Even I, a woman is sick of it. And have you seen Hanyu live ?because you you post such shit stuff about him and his look..you re delusional

r17 I think Nathan is bending forward in that photo. Nobu is listed at 164 and Nathan at 166. Which gets confusing to us Americans because Wiki doesn't seem to want to use fractions of inches so they're both listed as 5'5" on their wikis, which is true but also not.

ISU bios look pretty accurate through 2017/2018 season, give or take a cm. Boyang is listed at 170 cm, Chan 171, Hanyu 172, Javi 173, Uno 159 (which makes him closer to 5'2" than 5'3" - I was starting to think he was fibbing about his height but looks like whoever wrote his wiki is just generous), Kolyada 170

In descending order, that makes it 1. Javi 2. Hanyu 3. Chan 4. Boyang 5. Kolyada 6. Chen 7. Oda 8. Uno

I don't have any pictures of Chan, Boyang, and Kolyada next to each other to compare, but the rest seem like they're the right order.

Hanyu has sensitive skin so I can see him not wanting to wear makeup in general. He was definitely wearing some sort of foundation in Ciontu though. You could see the outline at certain angles.

r18 walked into "another" glass door? Is there a story about Hanyu doing that before?

R26. I don't care to block based on the conversation. I will just scroll through. Thanks for that advice though.

R26. This person is obviously off her meds. I can't anymore with this troll. She is nasty and can't have a normal conversation on here.

you re hilarious. off her meds? And who says that? gay who is a virgin and jerks off to hanyu I will bring the popcorn., dear

r31 I heard about Dylan Moscovitch having a glass door fall on him at TCC which resulted in a major injury and inability to attend Worlds, but nothing about Hanyu per se.

I don't know if it's just me but on the continues with wings I thought Hanyu's eye area (left eye) looked a bit swollen.

I can't remember what the exact event was, only that it was some time back in 2012 or 2013 (most likely it's a competition), but he apparently walked into the revolving door of the hotel he was staying at and ended up with a cut on the side of his brow. There were pictures of him in band-aid.

So okay, the tallest current skaters are, according to ISU bios. Fro juniors, I only looked up Orzel.

180cm (~5'11") Nam Nguyen, Morisi Kvitelashvili 181cm(~5'11.5") Conrad Orzel 182cm (~6') Yaroslav Paniot, Romain Ponsart, Stephane Walker 183cm (6') Roman Sadovsky 185cm (~6'1) Nicolas Nadeau

What jumps out: they grow 'em tall in Canada. Regardless of ethnic background, even,

Which is interesting. Because the fact that there are so many very tall skaters from Canada on the elite (Worlds/GP) level also tells us some something about their training. Meaning, yep, you can train a tall skater to reach elite level. I'm betting that if we ever get a Worlds top 10 skater of around 180cm tall, he'll come from Canada.

R27 I think it was done during one of shows earlier this summer

Anyone here remember Tatsuki Machida? He looked great in eye makeup earlier this year during his Bolero performances. Shaved pits and everything.

R40 yes definitely, I think there was even some discussion here as to whether he was finally coming into his own. Hanyu has the kind of eye shape that makes it seem like he's wearing eye makeup in certain angles and lighting. I thought he was wearing something during Olys Seimei but he wasn't. Other than the foundation at Ciontu (where I think he broke out and was trying to cover it up), I don't think he wears makeup. Sweats too much. Looks better without it anyways.

Boyang Jin: 10 for Choreography, 10 for Performance, 10 for Execution

Maybe it's the lighting or maybe it's just me. His left eye looks a little swollen here. I remember watching the video at a different angle when it first came out and thought hmm his eye doesn't look quite right.

R42 Thanks for that. I like Boyang. He has so much potential - a sweet charm and great jumps. I hope this whole mess in the summer doesn't derail him.

R41 The outer corners of his eyes have a sunken spot each. Some people have them. Depending on the skin tone of the one who has them, those sometimes create an illusion like they have some kind of pinkish, reddish or grayish eyeshadow. Hanyu's make him look like he's dabbed on some dark pink eyeshadow sometimes, when the light hits them just right.

R36 I don't remember about Ciontu but in that particular FaOI show, I forgot which stop it was, one of the days in Niigata maybe, his left eyelid was bruised and mildly swollen and people thought he put on eye makeup when they see pictures of him where only his left side can be seen clearly.

R40 And yeah, Machida has always had penchant for eye makeup. He wore eyeliner even for some of his programs while competing. I think East of Eden was one of them.

R43 That one just looks like something his eyes do sometimes. Sometimes he turns double eyelidded when he looks up. This time it's one side, but sometimes it's both.

R43 *sweeps hanyu aside* why hello thar boyang. Awkward people with low inhibitions are so much fun. It's part of the reason why Hanyu is the way he is. But he's old news now that I've seen this.

Sorry that last comment about Jin was meat as a reply to r42.

meant*

I hate my phone keyboard sometimes.

Oh yeah. Another reason I don't think Hanyu puts on make up is because the guy has this habit of wiping sweat off his face (guess it stings when it gets into his eyes) with the front of his shirt while still skating around the rink in front of an audience and still in costume.

To the other thread

aready, with daft Trollsuke

lapping at your tails?

Lol. meant for my haiku to close out the other thread. I hate loose threads!

Is Machida gay?

R48. I don't think Yuzuru wears makeup when he competes. He does sweat a lot. The only time I saw what looked like eyeliner was at the faoi.

That dai troll is just nasty. Its obvious she can't have a normal conversation on a any message board. She responds by attacking. I believe her when she says she is a woman. A woman probably on pms right now.

Troll sounds more like a dude pretending to be a woman because of men who buy into the hysterical pms women bs and look away from the tantrums thrown by men.

r55 Oh the daitroll is back?

If that troll is a dude just trying to get a rise out of people (when tbh it stopped working the second day), then he's just as cray as if he were a psycho anti trying to get a rise out of people. Anybody doing this sort of shit are shrink material. So either way we're having a sad person with mental problems here. But since it got boring and repetitive, maybe we could focus one something more riveting, like the analysis of skaters eyeliner habits?

r53 Totally gay for Takahashi, at least from what I heard. And he was apparently the main inspiration for the main character in that Yuri on Ice anime, who's gay, so there's that.

Boyang has such an adorable personality. I hope they're able to polish his skating without suppressing it. As ugly as his skating is, I find him more fun to watch than Nathan.

Boyang's skating isn't uglier than Nathan for the most part and his jumps are just so much better. I agree that he is enjoyable to watch even with poor skating skills. It's really a pity he won't go to Orser. He has the potential to be more well rounded but it won't happen being stuck with the same coaches and choreographer.

I wonder why Boyang continues to work with Lori Nichol? He needs to move on. The recent preview of programs doesn't really give me hope for next season, at least on the men's side (haven't watched the women yet) I think most people are going to play it safe as they figure out how the new rules work in practice.

You cannot fault the skaters for playing it safe. Blame ISU being too stupid to see the problem wasn't the rules but how little/badly the judges were following them. Instead of this new regulation if I were ISU I would have pushed for major changes in how judges are selected and trained but also on having them paid and accountable for their judging. Until this happens any new reform will only ever be cosmetics.

I don't know if we can figure out Nathan's height from this very recent photo - but Nathan, Nobunari Oda, Mirai and Mariah - they're all wearing flat shoes, though with trainers, sometimes the sole is more built up than others. This is recent though and he certainly doesn't look much taller to me.

Using google, Mariah and Mirai are 5'3" - Oda is 5'5" but his head is leaning - but you guys seem to have a more accurate source for heights?

R60 fuck you, we are sweet and nice. Why don't you trust us??

[R55] and [ [R56] you re a bore. Same bullshit as always , PLEASE COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER AND FRESH AND FUNNY for a change.. . and you re the same perosn IP is the same. hahah

R59. I don't blame any skater playing it safe. I feel ISU really messed up a lot changing the rules. R60. Exactly! I also blame ISU not going after the problem which was the judging. Nothing imo will get better until ISU does something about the judges.

R60 & r64: I don't think the problem is a simple thing that starts or stops with the judges though. It's probably a gnarly thing that has to do with the Feds and with some being more influential than others, to do something about the judges means having to do something about them and having to do something about them may ultimately mean having to smash the ISU and the sport itself to pieces and build again from the ground up. Of course there are other better stopgap measures they could take but either way, I get the impression that it's all a house of cards that will come tumbling down if one were to push too hard. The more idealistic young blood may want to go for it but there are still too many old ponies in the game for that to happen still.

I do not follow the women as I do the men. Did they shorten the long program for women like they did for the men? I honestly think it was dumb to shorten the men's long program. I could be wrong but I feel it may be harder for some of them without that extra 30 seconds.

R65 I agree that bad judging is in big part due to ugly fed meddling and corruption but from my experience as a fan of other sports if they were paid and thus less likely to be sweetened by a backdoor deal and truly held accountable for their blunders (the 'sanctions' we have right now are a joke and some judges don't even get them when their misjudging or bias is there for all to see), we would probably get slightly atrocious results than right now. The pundits in this sport need to understand that it isn't the old days where their shady deals couldn't be seen by all. Nowadays with the internet every fan has access to the videos of the performances and the score sheets and can see the mess for themselves. Unfortunately it might take a whole generation for things to change on top, time for all the current people in power to retire and have new blood coming in. I feel sad that such an amazing and difficult sport doesn't get the judging it deserves. That and a backwards business model and general conservatism are killing it slowly but surely.

r66 No they didn't, the women's program remains the same. The men's program is exactly the same as women's now, same length, same number of jump passes, same other required elements.

Yeah, it was dumb to cut the 30 secs because, well, quads. As not everybody is Hanyu, they usually take more time to set up than women's triples, so the programs are going to get a lot emptier I think, no time for extra steps. So much for promoting artistry and more balanced programs.

Actually, I'm not sure emptier is what the programs would become, since the setup time has forcibly been reduced, there's less time for the program to be empty. More likely it'll be just as empty as before (for those who can't jump without long setups) but now with a more rushed feel. The choreography and timing to music would suffer even more and with more people rushing into their big technical elements before they're ready to pull them off, things are likely to get sloppy and falls or pops may be more rampant than before. On the bright side, maybe some--those who are able to swim instead of sink--will come out the other side improved and able to jump with less setup time. I guess only time will tell.

R68. I'm thinking the same that the artistry will suffer. Will skaters like Hanyu still be able to put in that artistry and do it beautifully? I can't see Hanyu changing his skating all too much. He is my favorite because of his artistry. I can't see Nathan improving on artistry at all now. We will still get the same from him.

Hanyu is the skater who needs the less time to set up his jumps so he won't be as badly affected by this as others. Also he is crazy fast like in 2 strokes he crosses the ice which also plays in his favour with the shortened time. The only issue he will have is stability of his quads as any fall is going to be extremely costly from now on. But already in PC he worked hard not to fall on the 2 jumps he messed up the landings of during his free skate and managed to stay on his feet so here as well I think he will be ok. At this point his only enemy is his health to be honest. I wonder if he has finally recovered all his jumps by now.

I just watched the new Skating Lesson with Dave Lease and he really liked Nathan's new programs and thinks he is becoming much more of a showman and putting more artistry in. So we'll just have to see I guess. He's one of the few who has so many quads that the limitation of repeating won't affect him as much (barring injury that messes up some of his quads.) The same 'might' could be said for Boyang but his new program is pretty awful (I had already thought so - and Dave/Jonathan agreed.) There's time to improve it though and I hope he does.

To be fair, I didn't like Nathan's music so I was bored by his long - but I did realize he was trying harder on the artistry side. And Dave loved Shoma's and I did too. (I didn't watch the couple who did Moonlight Sonata as I'm new to skating and just watch singles, mostly just the men, so warhorses never bother me at all.) Some commenters have said MS doesn't fit Shoma, but I disagree - or maybe I'm just so enamored of his style that anything would do. I like his Stairway to Heaven as well (so did Dave, who thinks this season will be a 3 way battle with Hanyu, Shoma & Nathan - with Boyang falling way behind. I feel like the fed really screwed him over - and whoever choreographed that awful free skate - Lori?)

Maybe I'm mis-remembering but I think someone said Nathan had improved the consistency of his 3A and was even doing one out of a spread eagle?

R29 Even if standing up fully, Nathan doesn’t look taller than Oda. And he’s wearing a cap under a hoody in the photo on the ice. I'd have to look for it but there's a photo of Chen and Mitsuki Sumoto in yukata and sandals taken in July, and he wasn't taller than Sumoto. Sumoto is listed as 164cm though he’s only 17 and that might be an old number.

R61 Oda is also standing in front of them. I don’t think the ISU listed heights are entirely accurate, either. Some skaters have been overstating their height and I think some heights in the bios aren’t updated accordingly (Tomono should only be 1cm more than Uno, but the height difference is bigger in recent photos). There might also be some inches to cm conversion going on that R29 pointed out that could create some of these discrepancies.

Here's a photo of the skaters without their shoes. You need to add some centimeters since Nathan is turned inward, but also subtract some for the hat. Mariah Bell is listed as 160cm and Vanessa James is 161cm.

I thought Nathan had greatly improved over the course of the shows. He seemed to enjoy himself a lot more, too, maybe because of the lack of pressure and his mom wasn't around this last tour. Of course, it'll be different with the quads and school fulltime. I still can't stop thinking about how Zagitova and Jin have been let down by their SP choreographers. It's not a matter of taste.

I have yet to see Nathan's artistry that so many in NA seem to see. I like the guy but his programs are empty and his jumps telegraphed. I guess that's the power of the US of A that so many suddenly become blind to obvious flaws. I like him as he seems to be genuinely a good kid and will give credit for his quad ability (although his lack of knee bend hurt my eyes) but his interpretation and skating skills leave a lot to be desired. I think if Boyang was finally given proper programs he would have more potential than Nathan as he is much more expressive. Alas it's not going to happen. Now with all those program announcements I am really curious what will be Yuzu's choices for this season. Hopefully not a warhorse.

R75 My thoughts exactly on Nathan. It's like every NA announcer has to tell us about his ballet background to try to influence what our eyes can clearly see; he's one of the least balletic men I've ever seen, even if he were wearing one of Zag's tutus. If he had landed his quads at the Olys, they'd be talking right now about how he's the perfect balance of athleticism and artistry.

R75. I'm from NA and I do not see Nathan's artistry either. He focuses on his jumps imo. I doubt we will see much artstry from him this season.

So looking forward to Hanyu's program music. I believe it will be beautiful. Does anyone have an idea when he will announce?

While I think the US of A's propaganda machine did try its best to brainwash American viewers into thinking Chen has artistry in spades even if their eyes aren't seeing it in competition (nationalism is a powerful thing indeed), I really don't think Chen is without artistry at all. It's not artistry that he's lacking, it's the skill to bring it out during competition when he also has to bring out the big guns: his quads. In galas or ice shows when he can keep those guns holstered, he actually is very fun to watch. I do like the guy's style. I just wish he was able to blend some of it during events where the quads are needed. That way, he'd at least make the lies being spun about him half true.

Good luck to him this season. Hopefully we'll see him living up more to his potential and the artistry during competition his country swears up and down he has.

Yuzu said that there will be a warhorse

In case people start getting curious and asking R80 about its comment, I should warn you, it's that pathetic Daitroll, just trying a new tactic to get our attention.

r81 I think most of us have this person blocked.

Regarding Nathan - with his new school obligations, his training time will probably be limited, he'll be lucky if he stays on his feet at competitions, nevermind developing artistry. I'm expecting his programs to be really empty.

I'm from America and don't really like Nathan's skating and I don't want him to beat Shoma (or even Hanyu, who I can still keep rooting for as an underdog somehow...) It's funny though that the sweetest guys in skating are Americans (Nathan and Jason Brown) and the biggest jerks are Japanese (Dai) and Canadian (Chan - though I should say 'were' instead of 'are' with him.) Javi was a sweetheart too.

The others I'm pretty neutral on (or just don't know.) Hanyu's implacably polite but excessively driven to beat everybody else - well I guess that's why he's at the top - and Shoma's a bit autistic acting, though as the "headliner" at the Ice, he really seemed to be coming out of his shell before our eyes. Maybe part of it was being out from under anyone else's shadow, re ice shows, like Yuzu or Mao -- maybe he's just growing up.

A little bit of my heart I keep reserving for Kolyada, but I'm not sure there will ever be a payoff. He has it all, jumps, technique, art. Just can't put it together in a program dammit. Oh, and Aliev is a sweetheart and can pull out spectacular skates, like wasn't it the Olys when he scored 98.98 in his short? Ior worlds 2017?) Oh well, the Russian men have gone all nerves and unfulfilled promises, but it's not lack of talent. Maybe their home conditions aren't nurturing them (see poor Alina -- that Evgenia was a smart cookie to scram.) However did Eteri/Danlil do so well for so long (when I look at that busy atrocity that is Alina's SP - and she's got all those new centimeters to control.)

Dave and Jonathan were also all aboard the Marin Honda train, while disliking Mai Mihara and Kaori Sakamoto - and they think Satoko's trending down, I think? They didn't mention Wakaba as she hasn't been seen lately I guess but in the past, they're propping her. Bradie's edgy new program is promising - go girl! the deck's been cleared for you in NA, except Gabby?

R81. It's bipolar. Has to be. Freaking nuts

R83. I also see Hanyu as an underdog. Weird since he has won Olympics twice. Maybe because of everything he went through in life. And I agree with you on Dai as one of the biggest jerks. Like I said in another post I tried to give humva chance but I always find something else about him that turns me off.

r83? What Bradie's edgy program? I thought she was doing a Nutcracker or something like that?

[81] and [r82] idiots, you read me,you havent blocked me, coz you still talk ABOUT ME ahhahahah. AND THEY SAY ON GOLDEN SKATE THAT YUZU WILL BE HAVE WARHORSE !!!!!!!!!!! i am not trolling becaaue i post things you dont like, pathethic losers hahaha

R85, I'm frustrated that I can't find the tiny clip of Bradie's short that I know I saw!! Someone else saw it - at Golden Skate was this comment: "I love what I've seen of both of Bradie's programs - dramatic, and a bit... dark. I'm looking forward to seeing them both in their entirety"

Anyway, the only clip I could find was the warhorsy thing you mentioned (her freeskate) - a mash of all well-known R&J music (including the Prokofiev ballet version) with a risky 3Lz-3Lo combo, which someone said was a labrum injury waiting to happen - hey, I thought loops were hell on the hip? Oh well, at least she's still plugging away and not being lazy a la the hyper-talented Marin (at least according to Dave/Jon - they think Raf yelling at her might be the push she needs lol)

I'll keep looking and come back with the clip if I can find it again. There have been so many reveals and clips, I just can't keep up! I know Dave and Jonathan talked about it - I wonder if they had a clip? I'd go check but their show is over an hour long - I think they talked about her at the end? (and they have an hour-long inteview with Aljona Savchenko to be released today I think but I haven't checked on it yet)

R83 & r84 it's funny how he can be both the King and the underdog. But that's hanyu for you, I guess. For as long as he's got something to chase after.

Well, sheesh, in that same Instagram account that had her free skate clip, here's the end of Bradie's new short. (also lots of clips of others' new programs)

I can't find the instagram page but will keep looking. It was a yuzuru translations page. There was one photo or short clip translated saying he said after getting people's choice and Olympics he feels lonely. Darn I hope I can find the page again. Anyway it made me think oh no. I don't want yuzuru going back down that lonely path again. I feel that along with stuff said about him really messed with him to the point where he thought he should not be here. If I find it again I will definitely post it.

Oh crap. Worrying about that boy Yuzu is wearing me out... Everybody wants to be his friend and he's lonely but keeps withdrawing deeper - well, sometimes it seems that way - but I think reaching the top is a treacherous place to be, until you kind of adjust to not having that pinnacle to climb to anymore, and for some, well, I think it's a rough transition back to "normal" because normal was always striving to get there, so you don't have a normal... something like that. I hope his analytical mind will figure out the best way forward, soon.

For some lighter fare, Keiji in drag?? Looks pretty hot with the wig and bright red lipstick. Do we know if he has a significant other?

r89 Thanks, Bradie's SP looks promising.

The interesting part about Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet, the famous dramatic part at least, is that it's very dark music, and if they just put on a black dress instead of pink/blue and skated more aggressively, it'd be really cool. Bradie has some potential for non-princessy skating; in the middle of her sugary Cinderella program she suddenly changed into Maleficent for some reason, and I really dug that part.

R88 I think it's because in this era of quads and the varied talent pool, nothing's ever a sure bet. Hanyu's dominance has never looked effortless either, given his injuries, struggles, and fed politics. When he was younger, he was an underdog because there were all these seniors who felt it wasn't his time yet and he just seemed so wild and scrappy with his stamina issues. Mid-career, he was easy to root for because of the damn injuries. And now, with age and injury, and all the young skaters coming up, you've got to wonder when his fighting spirit just won't be enough to overcome the physical realities anymore. It's strange, when you look on his whole career on paper, with the WRs and medals, he looks dominating, but when you think of all the struggle that went into them, it's a different story.

R91 I'm pretty sure that's Wakaba as Annie, not Keiji. Also, I've never Annie described as "hot."

Oh, I think I get it R91 you're talking about Keiji in the black wig with the red lipstick. You're right, doesn't look half bad.

Don't know who Buruzon Chiemi is, but as an American, I think Keiji channels Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction.

R93 indeed. But it's what's not on paper that makes him easy to root for, I think. Although the heights he has reached is not something most can relate to, the trail he's left behind, at least, is something people will find relatable.

r93 Was there ever such a thing as effortless domination? Kwan? Plushenko? Chen? (I didn't follow FS closely in those times.)

I meant "Chan".

R98 That's a good question. I'm not r93 but I think the gap between the polars of Hanyu's achievements and the lows he's had to face due to the kind of roadblocks that came in his way are wider than most, making his narrative a more compelling one than others to me. The ones that I know, anyway.

I dunno. I just feel the guy has experienced so much more at 23 than what a lot of people have even by 90, including past champions. I'm older than the guy by a lot and I feel like he could teach me so many things that I would actually want to learn. There are a lot of people worth admiring out there--not all of them champions, of course--but out of all the ones I know, he's one of the very few that makes me feel this way.

[quote]A little bit of my heart I keep reserving for Kolyada, but I'm not sure there will ever be a payoff. He has it all, jumps, technique, art. Just can't put it together in a program dammit. Oh, and Aliev is a sweetheart and can pull out spectacular skates, like wasn't it the Olys when he scored 98.98 in his short?

I'm not giving up on Kolyada yet - if it took Hanyu 3 years to stabilize his 4S, then there's chance for Kolyada's 4Lz.

Aliev grew on me, his Oly SP was indeed spectacular and although I wasn't a fan of his FS, it'd have been much better if he hadn't pretty much injured himself right there in his Olympic performance. Aliev's young, though, 19. The growth spurt is probably behind him, he's only 172 cm tall, he's on the thin side, so physically he's all set. He's got jumps, he's got time to learn, improve and stabilize. On the other hand, his coach is Rukavicin, which alone qualifies him as a trainwreck, according to FSU.

Con't from r100: I mean it's not just about how he's overcome all his adversities, it's also about how he thinks, the way he articulates what he thinks, how he treats others and how he chooses to simply be.

r91 Keiji in drag doesn't look nearly as ugly a I thought he would. He might even pass from a distance.

r98 Chan's dominance was effortless in the sense that he won even when he fell all over the place. The field was weaker and the judging was different back then. Kwan had a couple injuries, but she and Chan also had easier careers in that they were relatively injury free. In fact, I haven't heard of Chan ever having a serious injury.

Plushenko probably had the most effortless dominance once Yagudin was gone. He had a couple losses but they were more due to brain farts/poor strategy, lack of consistent competition, and aging. When he wasn't doing silly things like zayaking or 2 axels instead of triple toes, he won comfortably even when he wasn't completely committed to competing

Same with Yagudin. The only reason he had losses was because he was competing at the same time as another all time great, and he mostly dominated their rivalry.

Hanyu seems like an underdog because he's always seemed more fragile. Twice he's had potential career ending injuries as well as other health issues and training condition problems. Even though his results are consistent, his performances have varied a lot. And now he's the veteran at that stage where a lot of skaters are peaking or have already peaked and start getting passed.

r101 The difference was that Hanyu was 18 when he started doing that 4 salchow. Kolyada is only 2.5 months younger than Hanyu. Kolyada has so much raw ability. I'm hoping that Kolyada's a late bloomer and that the best is still ahead of him.

R98 I think Michelle came pretty close to looking effortless. Her skating was very consistent and she didn't have really serious rivals, lots of little youngsters that people didn't take seriously until they beat her at the Olys (Tara, Sarah Hughes) or someone like Irina who was considered good at specific things, but not the whole package. Chan's dominance always felt so controversial at least to me - his 3 world titles should have been 1 world title, frankly. And while he was a very beautiful skater, the fact that he often won by falling all over the place, made his "dominance" seem both illusory and unearned. Also, neither Chan nor Kwan had the kind of struggles with injuries that Hanyu has.

For Plushenko, I think R103 just stated what I was going to say. He didn't have serious rivals after Yagudin retired. He did have plenty of injuries and struggles, but he wasn't open about them in the way Hanyu is. And I just think in the quad era, it's never a given who will skate clean and win. Back in Plushenko's day, it was a big deal that he could do the one quad toe in his SP and FS.

r102 Well, when it comes to mentality, he does come across almost as superhuman with his "hyped himself up to win motherfucking Olympics despite a damaged foot and 3 weeks of training" - I mean, how many people would rather resign themselves to failure, given the circumstances?

r103 r105 Thanks for the outlook. I guess that's one of the reasons for all those Pooh rains, people do get behind him because of those struggles.

r104 I wonder why Kolyada never went for a lower quad, such as 4S. I'm getting Adam Rippon vibes, but hopefully Kolyada will stabilize.

I find myself cheering for him not only for the struggles (injuries earthquake) but the crap he has to go through with antis. Does any other skater get as much hate as Yuzuru? And I mean the things they did on and offline.

[R107] What deniss Ten would say then, huh? HE has been treated like a shit. Stop crying like a baby over yuzu.. He has tons of money, fame, medals , everything.You re selfish. maybe think sometimes of others.

Sometimes I kind of feel bad for Chan. The fact that he was propped up and won with many mistakes made him arrogant and complacent. He always thought his skating skills would carry the day and put him over better jumpers, so he never had to work on the consistency of his jumps. Of course there was also the issue of his attitude during interviews. I think he was just a bad interviewee though and said stupid, defensive things. I don't get the vibe that Patrick is an actual asshole though, but could be wrong.

R83 What about “sweet” Americans like Vincent Zhou and Alex Krasnozhon (more honorary American in his case)? Chen and Brown do seem nice, but so do many other skaters. I think the villains this season will be among the male pairs and dance skaters. There seems to be more drama there.

All of the Japanese men get put in drag at some point. It’s also a The Ice tradition.

I think there’s been a lot of misinterpretation of Hanyu’s words due to secondhand sources and translations. I’ve linked to the article with the actual quote below. A reporter asked him if he feels isolated as the world’s top skater. He said something to the effect of, “It’d sound better for your article if I said I did, wouldn’t it?” And, paraphrasing here because it's long: “I used to feel very isolated, as though no one could understand how I feel, especially after the Sochi Olympics and the more people congratulated me. Everyone around me was so happy that I started to question my own happiness and began to doubt if my hard work had truly paid off. But now I’m able to accept everyone’s words and feel very happy myself. I’ve realized that I’m special and have to accept those feelings.” He did used to say that he needed to isolate himself in order to perform to the best of his ability, and that it was his choice rather than something forced upon him. I see a lot of poor Hanyu should be friends with x skater, but that’s not what he wants and he can choose his own friends.

r109 For all we love to complain about them, I think with few exceptions like Lysacek, they're all good folks, Patrick and Takahashi included, just suffering from a foot-in-the-mouth or excessive honesty syndrome.

But sometimes I do wonder what would have happened if Patrick had other skaters on his level, maybe he wouldn't have rested on his laurels, got himself another quad, been less cocky and more focused - maybe he would have got that Sochi gold. Just how badly he cracked under the pressure in Sochi, when the gold was basically being offered to him, is mind-boggling.

I also read similar musings on Plushenko. What kind of skater he would have become if there was somebody else on his level? If Yagudin hadn't retired? Would they have pushed Plushenko to become more artistic?

Yeah, I remember the days of Lysacek and Weir battling it out in People magazine or whatever (in case there's a question, it was Lysacek being the asshole). Plushenko was pretty boastful and not exactly the most graceful loser. I reserve judgement on Dai simply because I don't speak Japanese and I have a feeling my feelings about him would be different if I did. Most of the men nowadays are practiced at showing just the right amount of self-deprecation and respect for their rivals etc. Who are the villains among the male pair and dance skaters?

R110 I see that about Hanyu as well - he is very specific about who he wants to engage with and to what degree. I understand why people react the way they do, but I think his fragility is overemphasized. I see him as very deliberate and in control of his career and life choices and as he's gotten older, seems to have made peace with what he's gained and what he's had to give up.

In Pairs/Ice Dance it isn't that they "hate" their rivals more than single skaters. It's that sometimes they end up "hating" their partner! Some splits (like the recent one between Min and Gamelin) are pretty trashy and ful of accusations.

A few months ago, after the Olympics, I remember there was an article quoting an anonymous skater about how all the men in ice skating are gay and that people are shagging each other at every opportunity. I can't find it anymore. Anyone recall this?

I've had this theory that had he not "won" 2012 and 2013 worlds, Chan would have won 2014 Olympics. It seems like there was a shift in the way the judging was done after all the controversy. By the 2013/2014 season, it seemed like the component scores were more closely tied to the TES the way it is today. If Chan hadn't lost the Chanflation bonus points due to the controversy he might have won that Olympics.

Hanyu's performance was pretty bad. In addition to the 2 falls, he got no points for his 3 salchow, his spins traveled, and there were a couple iffy landings. Chan's performance, while not good, was better than his 2012 and 2013 performance. Back then, I didn't follow skating closely and drank the commentator kool aid about it being Chan's olympics to lose, but when I analyze the competition now, I think a clean Hanyu would have beaten a clean Chan.

Funny how Chenflation is the opposite of Chanflation. Now, skaters get bloated PCS as long as they hit their tech whereas Chan got disproportionately large PCS scores in spite of his tech. It seems like the judges over corrected after the Chan quad and now the ISU is trying to veer back the other way in response to the current controversy.

r106 I haven't looked that closely at Kolyada's technique on his other jumps but my guess is that he simply has the best technique on his lutz. It is so beautiful when it's landed and he seems to be more of a toe jumper anyway.

Probably the same reason Keegan is working on a quad axel instead of a quad of a different type - the axel is simply his best jump.

r111 I think the past quad shows what would have happened with Patrick if he had stronger rivals. It's amazing how quickly and completely he got passed after being so dominant. Patrick increased his tech but became even more inconsistent. I think he hit his technical ceiling. The programs in his day were also not as intricate as Hanyu and Fernandez's (Lori Nichol did his choreography until 2012)

r116 But how successful that strategy is? It left Adam Rippon in the middle of the field, never reaching the top. I wouldn't want Kolyada to suffer the same fate. Similar with Keegan, from 4T to 4A? Hanyu's tackling the 4A after having conquered 4T, 4S, 4Lo, 4Lz , so it looks like he's got better chances of learning it based on his quad experience alone. Keegan's got chance to become Canada's top skater, but if he starts going for the 4A instead of something lower-difficulty, something with 4 revolutions instead of 4.5, he might squander his chance.

r117 I don't think Chan would have gotten passed so easily back then. He learned 4T at the age of 20, an excellent one, and if he had a serious rival, a serious threat, he wouldn't have stopped with that. He would have stuck with learning the 4S then instead of letting it go, and I think he would have been much more successful at it at 21 than he was 25.

I watched Lysacec, Plushenko, and Weir skate. I never really watched Patrick Chan so I find it interesting to read about him here. I find him ugly from the photos I've seen. I have also watched some of his performances on YouTube which didn't impress me much.

r118 I think we just have to keep having hope that he'll overcome whatever is holding him back. The main difference between Keegan/Rippon and Kolyada is that Kolyada's actually landed his in competition and it was possibly the most amazing one ever landed in competition.

I don't like Rippon's skating so I haven't paid enough attention to see why he went for it but he never actually had a quad lutz - it was always downgraded. Even when Kolyada falls it's fully rotated and a lot of judges only gave him -2 GOE because it's so good.

I think Keegan is bonkers going for quad axel instead of a different quad but that's my best guess as to why he's doing it. The only other reason I can think of is that he doesn't believe that he'll ever be a medal contender at worlds/Olympics so he'd rather go for making history than being more competitive for lower competitions or moving up in world standings.

R120 I saw Chan once at an ice show and it was then that I understood what all the hoopla was about. His skating is truly beautiful live. It doesn't translate when you're watching videos though, I agree.

r120 As someone who only got into FS in 2015, it took me a long time to get the hype about Chan. I think his skating is... I don't kno w how to describe it... extremely proper, oh-so-very-controlled. His posture, that others love, with outstretched hands, I find stiff and, idk, school-like. His skating seemed to lack that raw passion that I dig, even in his smooth clean performances like the TEB 2013 ones. His choices of music never got me either.

But in 2015 he had that SP, Mack the Knife, where I hated the costume btw, with its elephant ears of pockets, and in the step sequence he did like a short knee slide and then got right back up never breaking the glide, and it was so butter-smooth that I went "wow, that's SO cool". And then I started watching his feet more and was actually impressed how smooth his glide is, how often he incorporates small on-the-note hops that never break this glide, and how amazingly smooth his twists and turns are. Indeed, there isn't any other skater who has that.

Long story short, although performance-wise Chan isn't my cup of tea, I do get it when people rave about his skating skills.

(The moment of my enlightment is at 2:30 in this video. I actually came to appreciate this program, and it's possibly my favourite program of his because it seems more passionate than usually.)

R119 Hanyu /was/ that threat. He effectively became one in 2012 when he podiumed at his very first worlds (with an FS score that's right behind Chan's) and when he started breaking records later in the same year at SkAm and beating him at GPF also in the same year. Chan just didn't recognize it over his inflated ego, which his inflated scores helped inflate. It may have deflated a bit at the end of 2012 but then got inflated all over again when he won 2013 WC, a victory many thought belonged to the late Ten. By the time he recognized it, like really recognized it, it was way, way, waaaay too late. He's made peace with it since and I believe that despite his falling behind in tech, he had enough skill to still have podiumed at PyeongChang had he skated clean. So I don't think it's his lack of tech, or even his early ego that failed him ultimately. It was the lack of the mentality of a true competitor. He chokes when it truly matters, making mistakes and letting them get the better of him the rest of his perfomance. I don't think he's ever really had that in him. If he did, he'd have recognized Hanyu coming from a million miles away. Or not let his ego put him in denial even if he did recognize it.

R120 & r122 I've never seen him skate live but watching it in HD, even though his skating isn't my cup of tea, I can objectively see that his skill in gliding on the ice is truly something else. I don't think anyone else in the field does it quite like he does.

r117 Perhaps. Not sure though because, at least once he got to the top, Chan seemed to be hyper focused on himself. I think a combination of hubris and underestimating his rivals did him in but you would think that he should have seen the competition on the horizon. Javi was already doing 4 salchow and Hanyu was quickly improving.

My guess is that he figured Hanyu wouldn't improve fast enough to be a threat by 2014 and he would retire after the Olympics anyway. Interesting how Hanyu had the opposite approach - he's been plotting out his technical advancement for years.

But even at his peak, Chan was inconsistent so upping the tech might have actually made him less dominant the way Hanyu has been. People have been telling Hanyu over and over that he only needs 4 toe and 4 sal, but he keeps working on more difficult jumps and transitions, which leads to more mistakes and injury. I think if he took a Kwan/Chan approach - getting to the top and then just try to be clean - Hanyu would have actually won more competitions but he wouldn't be the one to beat through 2 full Olympic cycles. Of course, we have yet to see if that'll happen so we don't know if Hanyu's approach will pay off.

r123 I also find Chan's movement to be stiff. I find it distracting when his arms swing around as if they are their own entity because there's no fluidity in the rest of his body.

And his expression is so limited. I liked his skating at first, but then realized that his programs were interchangeable because his style is just "generic pretty". it really hit me when I was watching 2017 worlds short and his program had no sound. I thought his skating was beautiful but when I found an audio version, I realized I had no idea what type of music he was skating to. In contrast, even without sound, you can tell immediately what type of music Hanyu and Javi were skating to based on the choreography and expression - a skating fan could probably even pick out Malaguena.

R125 If the guy had done his homework, he'd have seen Hanyu's penchant for rapid improvement. It wasn't exactly discreet. He went from being the weak-jumper-strong-spinner type to a kid who consistently manages rock solid 3As (complete with difficult entries) and flawless quad jumping technique. He went from being 12th in the 2009 JWC to winning it the following year. It's not exactly a leap to think he may also improve fast enough to take the Sochi gold from right under him. And it wasn't like it wasn't offered right back to him but the guy's lack of strong competitive mentality ultimately doomed him to silver.

But like you said, he seemed more ultra-focused on himself which wasn't exactly the wrong strategy when it comes to a sport like FS but he did it in a way that blinded him to the potential or others so he wasn't able to strategize accordingly. Like I said, not exactly the mindset of a true competitor.

And hasn't it already? Paid off? I don't recall anyone else winning a second OGM back to back in recent years.

r127 Yes and no. He's only been at the top for 1 full cycle. He was fortunate that his ascendancy started in an Olympic year but even if Nathan didn't bomb his short, he would have won this Olympics with "only" the 4 salchow and 4 toe loop that he had at the first Olympics. A lot of people theorize that the 4 lutz destabilized his 3 lutz, which is one of his most inconsistent jumps. If he focused on cleanliness and consistency, I think he would have won more through this cycle.

The work on the loop and lutz won't really pay off unless he starts needing them, which will be through the next cycle.

r124 r125 r127 Good points. I agree that he should have recognized Hanyu as an incoming threat in 2012 and it was way to late at GPF 2013. I think, despite Hanyu's score-amassing SP, Chan's vigilance was dulled by Hanyu's FS problem in 2012/13, the lack of stamina, the inability to land 4S, the constant illness. That, coupled with the feeling of invincibility due to his 2012 and 2013 wins were his downfall. I guess he needed a serious threat all alongside him, occasionally beating him, to keep that feeling of invincibility in check.

Ditto on the competitor aspect. As I heard it described, you get the gold on a silver pl after, and you take the platter.

In contrast, Hanyu always had a serious threat alongside him: Chan, Fernandez, Uno, Chen - and he never failed to underestimate the emerging talent, possibly remembering his path to beating Chan. When he faltered, there was someone close enough to win over him, so he never let himself rest on his laurels. Well, it did pay off with the records and the 2 OGMs.

r127 The loop seems to have paid off in 2017. He might not have won the Worlds without the 4Lo.

Also, there's reputation to consider. It never actually felt that Hanyu was being left behind technically. He got the 4Lo, the he landed that 4Lz. He had 4 quads, up there with the finest of them. That technical repertoire, even if only theoretical after his injury, still had him as the frontrunner despite the injury. He was jumpig the 4Lo in practice at the Olys, nobody knew what he would do, they just knew he could do A LOT. I think it mattered in the heads of the judges, that hype.

R128 I don't think it's that simple though. His consistent push for tech advancement may not have manifested in the obvious and glorious manner you described but it's precisely because of it that he was able to win with "simple" a 4S and a 4T. He's build enough confidence to challenge them twice and put the second one of each in the second half of his FS, as well as the last jumping pass in combo with a rippon in his SP. Not to mention the fact that he's able to improvise on the sly to salvage lost marks. Those aren't things he'd have managed if he played it safe and not pushed for tech advancement.

He also wouldn't still be the record holder of all three segments, breaking the previous record holder of all three--himself.

Even in the obvious manner you described, his 4Lo and second half 4S+3t was what won him the world title last year.

So I think it has more than paid off. Whatever he manages from here on out, it's a bonus and would only go to show that he hasn't reached his limits yet, even after all that he's proven.

R129 Yes, this - even if he technically didn't need the other quads (if he had skated a clean SP at worlds 2017, would he have needed the 4Lo?), maintaining his reputation was important. Heck, even with the 4 quads, the NA press continued to insist that Chen is distinctive in bringing "athleticism" to FS. I also think many people aren't sold on Hanyu's artistry either, so it's not something he could bank on (nor would he want to) to make up for weaker technical content.

r127 I think you require too much from Chan's 2010 crystall ball. The field was very different then, and he can't have expected a 15-year-old to become the one to challenge him for gold. Phenomenons of Hanyu's calibre are not predictable. The 2012 FS should have rung a warning bell, though.

Yeah, Patrick should have been more aware of Hanyu after 2012 worlds, but then again, Hanyu messed up in 2013. Frankly, I think the real issue was that, whatever was going on with his rivals, Patrick should have asked more of himself.

were* what won him

R129 I guess Hanyu did luck out with the challengers he got last quad but i think the reason they emerged was also due in no small part to his him forging ahead. When you forge ahead, others will be inspired to rise to try to catch up. He said something along the lines in Sochi that the push for tech advancement would be what determines the outcome of the next Olympics. So it was a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. The kind of leader a field has determines the depth of the field chasing him, I feel. If the IJS had kicked in earlier, Plushenko might've been able to inspire more of others to pursue him but with the previous scoring system the way it was, and with the way IJS was pre-Vancouver, there just wasn't enough incentive for others to follow.

R132 I wasn't saying he should've done it but if he had seriously assumed that Hanyu wouldn't improve fast, he really ought to have checked back to see if he assumed right at least. But given that he wasn't that kind of competitor, it's all moot anyhow.

R133 Right on. But he would've been a true competitor has he done so. He wasn't so ultimately, whether or not he had serious challengers all alongside him wouldn't have mattered.

had* he done so + a few other grammar and sentence structural misses. Sorry!

As I recall, Hanyu and Orser had a disagreement about the layout of his Sochi FS. Orser thought he should try for a less difficult program to increase the likelihood of a clean skate. Hanyu said that while Orser's was the safer approach, his attitude was always that he would rather skate to the limits of his ability and lose than skate conservatively and lose and always be regretful about what could have been. Of course, it didn't turn out the way either of them predicted - Hanyu took a risk and won, but not in a way that made him happy. I don't think skating Brian's program would have made Hanyu happy either, even if he went clean and won because he wouldn't have been skating to the limits of his ability. He said he was happy with his performance at 2018 Olys despite the flaws because that was the best he could do under the circumstances. That's really the difference between Hanyu and Chan though - for Chan, a win was a win, even if controversial or even if he messed up.

About what I said earlier about Chan's competitive mindset, please don't get me wrong. I don't mean it's his fault he didn't have the required mindset. That's not something he can help and that kind of hungry mindset has to come naturally. Had there been consistent challengers during when he was at the top, he probably wouldn't have remained at the top for as long as he had. Might even mean a couple of world titles less. So the fact that he didn't have consistent challengers during his reign probably means that he lucked out.

I don't mean to diminish his achievements as he did propel himself forward with his blending of quad and artistry but I think that was as far as his competitive mindset would allow him to go.

R136 I can wholeheartedly agree with that.

I think it's good Hanyu isn't social. I think he would be a total insufferable dick when it comes to board games or other competitive party activities. Remember that clip of him blindfolded whacking that watermelon?

r136 To give Chan some credit, I don't think it was JUST about the win for him. I think he genuinely cared about his brand of artistry and thought it was the pinnacle of FS, that why he got a dance coach instead of a jump coach.

r138 Literally, LOL.

Here's the watermelon clip

R123. Thanks for sharing that video. I see what you mean at the 2:30 mark. I do think that was nicely done. He did look stiff to me though. Poor guy. He did not look happy after that skate either. : (

r141 Did you notice his TES? It was 28 pts. He Zayaked like a motherfucker, put Oda to shame, entire 3Lz-3T combo got invalidated under old rules. No wonder he wasn't happy.

R138 Lol. Yeah. He probably would be, if he lets himself get carried away (which he apparently does). I'm not sure if the suikawari clip proves anything (other than he's an expert watermelon splitter) but the clip of him playing one of the games in that JOC pre-Olympic camp last year where he had his game face on while other athletes weren't being very serious at all definitely had that vibe.

R143 yeah, the clip doesn't prove much, but I think it's his body language I was noticing, just how seriously he took it, and how pumped he was when he saw he split it perfectly.

R142 Ah the Zayak rule; Javi could feel Patrick's pain I'm sure.

R144 I'd be pumped too, if I managed to split it that perfectly but I see your point. I probably would'be been a lot less meticulous on where I'm aiming, given that I'm blindfolded. That amount of time he took to set up the hit, it's not something we'll.get to see him do on ice before his jumps.

R142 Hanyu Zayaked in his SP back in SC...20...15? I think? It doesn't happen often among the elites (unless your name starts with Nobunari and end with Oda) but it happens.

R142 yes I just went back and looked at the TES again. Yeah I can understand the unhappiness. He didn't look pleased with his performance either once he finished skating.

Omg that watermelon clip. Hanyu is too much. You think he was going for the biggest prize of his life lol

r145 I suspect Javi's Zayak had been immeasurably more painful... Really happy that Javi got it this time around.

Maybe I'm imagining things but Javi looks crushed to me at Pyeongchang after Shoma beat him by what? less than 2 points, even after falling on his first quad. Even as they hug and Brian take photos, I think I still see a lot of regret. That popped quad Salchow was so unfortunate - or is it true that they shouldn't have given Uno so many points for the opening quad that he fell on? Several commentators have said that's how they feel - that Javi deserved the silver because of that - at least I think they're talking about the points Uno got for an underrotated quad that wasn't called.

Still a bronze is better than Sochi, by a long ways. And Javi told some reporter that he always had trouble on the third quad and I believe he said that the quads were so hard on his body, which is the only reason I can think of why he didn't do a fourth. But a double?? Ouch. Anyway, he must have known how tenuous his grasp was on the podium with only three quads - while facing Hanyu, Jin, Chen, Uno, Zhou, all with more - so he must have had a powerful reason to stick to only three. You know Hanyu would have died trying, if he had to - that quad loop would have been in the program if Chen hadn't crashed and burned, probably along with four other quads.

Javi complained about the questionable judging at the 2018 Olys in a Spanish interview (I don't recall if he talked about Uno's uncalled URs specifically) and seemed kind of pissed about it at the time. Hanyu made it obvious that he thought Javi should have gotten the silver (although he phrased it cleverly, like "Javi thinks he should have gotten the silver..."). Javi doesn't seem to be the type to dwell on disappointments for too long though.

It was sweet seeing Javi hug Shoma, despite what his feelings must have been. Not every skater would have been as affectionate - immediately realizing it wasn't Shoma's fault.

R149 I think Javi peaked a little early and last season wasn't really his best. He talked a lot about getting old and tired and was struggling in competition. I think the three quads was probably the best he thought he could do - Javi never had a 4 quad program, even at his peak.

Yes, I think Javi is a truly good guy. Hanyu was unlucky in a lot of ways (injuries, early training conditions etc.) but he lucked out in having a training partner and rival who was both talented and a decent human being. There was a total lockdown on Hanyu's condition before and during the Olys, with TCC completely bluffing its way through interviews and such. And Javi, one of his biggest rivals, went along with this strategy - when asked about Hanyu's condition, he always said he was doing great, that this was Yuzu, so of course he was prepared and in winning form etc. I can't think of another competitor who would do this for his main rival.

Man I am loving Javi more and more. He is a good man. No wonder Hanyu cried when Javi told him he was pretty much done competing. Javi means so much to Hanyu. I hope their friendship lasts for years to come.

R154 I wouldn't overstate their "friendship" though. I don't think that really describes their relationship. They're respectful and admiring of each other and have a real understanding of each other, but they probably have a complicated history. I don't know about Hanyu, but I doubt Javi considers Hanyu his "friend" in the way he has other friends, that he hangs out with, talks to. That kind of relationship just isn't Hanyu's bag right now.

Just to add, in translated snippets I've seen of Javi's biography, he talks about hanging out with Hanyu and actually having meals with him, he's also talked about how they helped each other and talked to each other about everything, and of course also called him his "wife." This gushy talk ended around 2015 though, when Javi had to walk back his wife comments and generally just became more circumspect and less effusive about their relationship. I'm sure there were lots of reasons for this (intrusive fans, getting asked about Hanyu all the time, feeling like people weren't respecting his career and achievements etc.), but I think it's also in part because Hanyu started keeping his distance and just the whole superstar thing probably overwhelmed whatever intimacy they had for the first few years (I'm not implying anything romantic, despite all the touching). It's easy to romanticize their relationship because their interactions are so sweet, but I honestly don't think they are that close now.

I think the shipping and increasing popularity played a part but mostly it was the competition between them from the moment Javi won Worlds 2015 and placed himself as a direct rival for Yuzu and especially Boston 2016 with all the issues of favoritism/Miki meddling/Yuzu hiding his injury etc. They actually started to grow closer again in the preparation of the Olympics after Yuzu got injured and Javi missed GPF because of his sickness/disaster skate in China cup. And then in the aftermath of the Olympics you could see how much they care for each other. See this for. It was during Shoma's skate and they could care less because they knew they were both podiuming together. And now that they are not going to compete against each other anymore they will probably even more revert back to being close and friendly like you could see during the ice shows.

I am wondering if yuzu would be so friendly if javier had win?

The thing is Yuzu never was a sore loser ala Patrick blaming the competition. He just beats himself up, dives into self loathing and isolates himself. Like after Boston he was forcing a smile for Javi in the green room and during the medal ceremony but then the evening he shut himself off in his room and cried the whole night. And given what he has said after the Olympics how getting the gold medal basically saved his life and made him realize that life was worth it in the end, I am really afraid of what would have happened if he had lost.

R156. I wonder if Hanyu kept his distance from Javi to protect him. Maybe he didn't want him exposed to what he was getting from haters and whatever else? It's just a thought I had after reading your post.

R158. I think Hanyu would be upset but more with himself. I don't think he would be less friendly with Javi.

r157 Miki meddling? Is it a fact or a rummor? How could she meddle all the way from Japan? It sounds like something angry shippers would invent.

She was there during Boston and it's a fact that she went to all the coaches telling them Javier was injured and to go to him (I think it was after SP not sure anymore). I think she even mentioned it herself in an interview. Meanwhile Yuzu was hiding an injury much worse and since he had a great SP, Brian and the others focused on Javi. Anyway I don't think it's one person's fault in particular but a lack of communication from all sides. And yeah a lot of Japanese fans believe Miki in general made things worse between Yuzu and Javi and for them it's not a surprise that their relationship improved again since Javi broke up with her.

r163 Ah, I see. Was Javi injured though? I remember something about Javi being injured at one of the big comps but I don't remember when.

Good that Hanyu and Orser improved their communication. Geez, taking the high road, gritting your teeth and hiding an injury from your coach, not the smartest thing to do.

[quote]For Plushenko, [...] He did have plenty of injuries and struggles, but he wasn't open about them in the way Hanyu is.

What's the difference? He didn't talk about them in interviews? From what I learned about Plush, he was often out of competition due to injuries, so it's not like he could hide them. Or did he hide the minor ones?

R157. That video of Hanyu crying on Jack's shoulder gets me every time.

R159. I don't even want to think about what would have happened if he lost. We need to just be thankful he is here and seems ok right now. He could have retired after Olympics but chose not to do so. I believe it's because skating does give him so much happiness.

Oh geez that should say Javi's shoulder.

R164 Javier had some slight foot injury if I remember correctly. And yes Yuzu's issue has always been that he kept his problems to himself but he improved a lot on that front after Boston and during his long recovery afterwards.

[quote]What's the difference? He didn't talk about them in interviews? From what I learned about Plush, he was often out of competition due to injuries, so it's not like he could hide them. Or did he hide the minor ones?

R164 I don't know if it's the internet age or what, but as I recall in Plushenko's time, he would withdraw from a competition, there would be some statement regarding how he tried and would have liked to compete but his injury was just too severe etc. and then he would be back again. With Hanyu, it's always this long and arduous dance, where he says he's fine, he competes anyway but seems kind of off, people suspect something is wrong, then we find out he had a close to career ending injury, and there's all this uproar, so it seems we're on this roller coaster with him. When I say Hanyu's "open" about his injuries, I meant in the way he talks about them afterwards, just the sheer will and mental toughness necessary to overcome both the physical injury and psychological effects on the competitor. I think Hanyu's more open about his struggles with that than Plushenko was.

And to go back to the original point (about effortless domination), because Hanyu is more forthcoming about these struggles, it makes him seem more vulnerable than Plushenko. In addition, Plushenko himself was a pretty boastful competitor and seemed to always present himself as invulnerable even despite his injuries.

Actually Yuzu is only open about his injuries afterwards. Like before the Olympics he enforced a blackout on information so no one knew how bad it really was (though most suspected since he kept withdrawing from everything even the team event) and it's only afterwards that we learnt he only started to jump quads 2 weeks before the games and it was so bad he had to withdraw from Worlds and get rehabilitation for at least 3 months. I mean I understand it's strategic for him not to disclose this in advance and it worked in his favour, what's with the amazing bluff he did with the quad loop (putting it in the sheet as his intended jump and jumping it once in practise to put doubts into Nathan's and Raf's minds and it worked). But yeah in that sense things are less clear cut with him than with Plushenko. And actually it's not just injuries he hides until the last moment, he also keeps the wraps on his new costumes and programs as long as possible. Drives fans and media insane but works in having a peaceful training environment with as few interferences as possible.

R170 I don't know if you were responding to my post, but that's exactly what I said - that Hanyu hides his injuries, but talks about them afterwards and it's how he articulates his struggles with them afterwards that distinguishes him from Plushenko.

R91. I found the instagram. I was lucky that it popped up in front of my face lol. Now the translation could be off. This could be old but it said people honor award passed. Then said something about being lonely. Anyone can translate this better?

I'm sure not having to compete against each other has eased the tension between Hanyu and Javi and I think their stated admiration for each other is real, but I don't see them as close friends. Even after the Olys, Javi was still giving interviews where he's careful to say they are good rivals but not exactly friends - I remember one where Javi says there was conflict between them in the past, that Hanyu's a good boy, but Javi doesn't like his "environment" (not sure what that meant maybe all the layers of handlers/management around Hanyu), that they once helped each other but that was a different time, and now they're more like Real Madrid and Barcelona. Brian always says they're not exactly friends because their personalities are so different. In any case, there is respect, admiration and genuine affection and that itself I think is remarkable for two direct rivals. I think it's easy to overstate their closeness b/c of their warm interactions, but I think that's due in part to Javi being pretty physically affectionate and handsy (he's like this with lots of people).

This is the ig users page.

Nevermind on that link. I read it again. Hmm maybe it's the user talking about themselves in the instagram. lol. Now I feel stupid.

Dang, Trusova just completed a 3 quad program, including a 4lz and clean except for a 4t

R163 Why do Japanese fans think Miki made things worse between Javi and Hanyu? Were there specific things or just speculation based on the growing distance between them during that time (which, as people have pointed out, likely resulted from a number of different things not Miki related)?

r176 Lol, it's ridiculous in an awe-inspiring way. I kinda want her to survive growth and puberty and watch the entire FS fandom complain about her boring, overpacked, interchangeable programs while she just smothers everybody on TES. Someone should forward this video to Gogolev, that's how you do it.

R112 I don’t think all of the “Hanyu should be friends with x” comments come from a genuine place. I think some of these people want him to be friends with certain skaters because it could lead to more social media appearances and funny stories for their entertainment.

R162 She was there for work.

R163 I wonder if that was Ando’s way of getting back into Fernandez’s good graces. I think they'd been broken up for several months before that Worlds and he was vacationing with Patty Sanchez right after, before that second TSL interview when he and Ando were together again. All of Fernandez’s girlfriends overlap, but Ando keeps coming back. It’s like they return to each other every year during the ice shows.

R175 The user is talking about herself. She’s sad because we won’t hear much from Hanyu now that most of the shows and ceremonies are over.

R177 I don’t know about outside Japan, but the disapproval of Ando and Fernandez’s relationship had nothing to do with Hanyu, but came from the fact that they were both seeing other people (Fernandez was engaged) when they got together. Ando has always had a reputation for using other people (especially men) for fame and purposefully causing drama. Her reputation among other Japanese skaters has always been poor, so fans began to question Fernandez’s judgement and fidelity when he began to date her. While they were dating, she also complained about Hanyu refusing to go out to eat with her (alone) on television for no reason other than to bring up his name. Funnily, right after this Olympics, Ando said that Hanyu wouldn’t have won if it hadn’t been for Uno pushing him, pretending Fernandez didn’t exist. I think that was her way of taking a swipe at him because he found a new girlfriend.

I saw this on Jason Brown's instagram. There was talk of Hanyu and the watermelon. Jason and the watermelon lol.

do you believe they were in relationship?? when he liived in canada and she in japan. is that even possible? When they had meeting, dates? lol

R179 I guess Miki's always been a bit of a train wreck. It's become less entertaining and more desperate now that she's 30. Javi's sweet but maybe not the brightest when it comes to women.

Trusova's program is crazy. Even if she doesn't survive growth and puberty, there are other girls doing quads (if not 3). I appreciate her effort, but I think Med will be done before the next Olys. Zags too. And here we are talking about whether poor 23 year old Kolyada will finally stabilize his one quad.

R173 I think Javier is careful with how he mentions Yuzu given how batshit insane some fans are. Until now everytime he posts a picture with his girlfriend he gets dozens of comments saying poor Yuzu or asking to post a picture with him. He once made the mistake of comparing him to a wife (esposa) in an interview and people still bring it up to him all the time. Also I think for Javier hanging out with people is important to consider them as friends whereas Yuzu doesn't go out with anyone. Even close people like Oda have said they never went for a meal with him. For Yuzu his socializing happens and around the ice. He has mentioned this in interviews. It tied with what he said how only on the ice he can fully express certain things. So yeah I trust more what I see of their relationship during galas and shows than what Javi says to the press which is also often distorted. But I agree that they aren't friends in the traditional sense and that they will probably never hang out much because that's not what Yuzu wants in general. At least not for so long as he keeps competing.

R183 Lol, the batshit fans are still there although you're right, there are fewer comments now. They talk about him and the gf in the third person, as if it's not Javi's instagram they're commenting on, stuff like, "oh Yuzu is much better, I can't ship him with this girl." Jesus fucking christ.

R183 R184. I have seen those comments too. They are crazy. I roll my eyes. They must be teenager fans doing this. I can't imagine someone older playing games like this on Javi's instagram.

Does anyone think Hanyu will eventually go out and do things in public once he stops competing. Yes maybe right now he chose this to be isolated so to speak. But it can get pretty lonely after a while.

r185 If what he needed before was focus and isolation to get where he wanted, the Olympic gold, maybe now that he's accomplished his goal he'll loosen up.

R185 I don't know. I think he is pretty much an introvert and enjoys staying home the most. Perhaps one of the best interviews to get some idea of how he is as a person is this one. It was translated in English at some point but I cannot find it now. Both interviewers did a great job at getting him to feel relaxed and at the same time the fact that it wasn't people he knew was better so he wasn't overdoing it (like he did in this interview with Kenji in 2015). Here at some point he explains that he isn't the type to go out with friends and prefers to stay home when he isn't training and that pretty much all his life experiences he gets them on the ice. I found it a bit sad to be honest but if he is happy this way who are we go judge.

jesus christ , stop whinin like cunts about that 'not going out' . Leave that man alone. Not everyone likes wasting time with ' friends' doing nothing, drinking and getting bored with some randoms. Thats not the most important part of life. Maybe for you , ladies. life means going out. Idiots. If you love give your ass off on parties, thats your choice, maybe he prefers listen to music in his room. Or watching anime

Here's part 1/4 of the subbed Asaichi interview. You can find the other parts of the interview under the poster's account. I don't know Japanese, so I can't verify the accuracy of the translation. I think Hanyu's deliberately pretty stingy about the details of his private life - we only get to know about headphones, anime/manga, music and kendama. So who knows about his social life or lack thereof. Even if he prefers to stay at home, I don't think that's a big deal or makes him strange. There are plenty of homebodies, even ones who don't get mobbed when they go out.

No one said it's strange. Just maybe a bit lonely.

I think of all the attention he gets in competitions and ice shows, all the interviews he has to give, all the obligations he has to fulfill both on season and off...hell, even I would pick to stay home and refuel (enough to also fill several extra-large canisters' worth to bring along) every chance I get. I'd think, when all this is over, I might think about getting out more but for now, these times I get on my own to indulge in my own private interests are precious and I'm going to hoard them and use them like there's no tomorrow.

I'd also be thinking, because I get enough me-time, I can also appreciate and enjoy the time that i'm in the spotlight, when I get to share and give back. This thing isn't going to last forever so it's good to have something that works so that I'm happy and everybody's also happy.

R191 Yes, this exactly. He also seems so "on" during interviews and has a heightened awareness of his surroundings in public outings and in competitions, even when he's not skating, that I think it must be incredibly mentally exhausting. Anyone would just want to go home and shut down frankly.

R191 Not to mention university studies. He should be working on his thesis right now.

I forgot that there was also that Chinese skater at TCC who used to leak information about him and possibly photos or video on weibo. I think he's a natural homebody from his interviews since he was little, but that goes to show that even TCC is not entirely safe. But he's said himself that his current popularity is temporary and eventually people will move on as they do.

R189. Thank you! I watched all 4 clips. This is how I felt watching. He is very well spoken and thinks before answering. I love how he briefly said something about him mom and sister. Does he ever talk about his dad? When he talked briefly about staying home I felt sad. Maybe it's just me but his face seemed sad? Maybe another word instead of sad but I am blank right now. I am not so sure things will change all that much socially when he is done skating. That's how I took it. I hope it does. But if he is someone who would rather be home then ok. I guess I just want him happy. Great interview though. U very much enjoyed it.

I very much enjoyed it. My finger must have hit the U key

So I have been watching skating videos of both Shoma Uno and Yuzuru Hanyu. I really believe the judges over score uno and underscore Hanyu. I find myself asking are they blind? Do they not see what I see? I watched worlds 2017 and Hanyu was underscored for his freeskate imo. That performance was flawless.

R195 I just finished the clips too - and thanks so much for the link! I didn't think he was so much sad as uncomfortable. And I would be too, if someone was asking me why I didn't go out and have a big social life. I think it's rude!

I'm inclined to agree with R189 that we just don't know about Yuzuru's private life. We know he has a sister but he never mentions her - in one of the videos when the hosts were asking him about what he did other than skate, he said "I love chatting with my close friends". And I remember in another interview he said his hand was sore from playing video games all weekend with his family. I would assume that's not mom and dad - but family closer to his own age - sister, maybe she has a family now, cousins, and such.

I think it's more of an Asian custom than even here to have friends and family help fix you up with potential love interests (and also more common that if people are lonely and want a love interest, they'd say so to their friends/family.) I remember reading on an expat forum how odd a westerner found it in Japan or China that people openly talk about their "problem" - meaning they need a boyfriend/girlfriend or mate. I think that's more of an embarrassing admission in the west - however, here most everybody is now using dating apps which is sorta the same thing. He obviously can't do that, but surely his family/friends would know people who'd be discreet, so... well, for all we know, he has as full a social life as he wants.

And if he doesn't want to settle down, hey, he's only 23! I alway think that's too young to commit to a relationship anyway. It's becoming more common in every first world country to either delay or forego marriage - articles abound on the subject. I wish people would quit even asking him about it. I don't notice them grilling the other skaters about their social lives. Poor guy.

* I said Yuzuru never mentions his sister -- he does -- but I meant he never mentions when he visits her, if she is married, has kids, that sort of thing. It's always something from the past.

R197: This isn't unique to Hanyu and Uno, though. It happens with other skaters, in other disciplines for almost as long as this sport has been a sport. It's just...ISU and their need to be bound by human conservatism. Heck, this is not even unique to ISU. It's just more apparent when you've got someone so far above the others as Hanyu in the game, so the push up for others become more radical because of the doors the guy has kicked open with his talent and determination. Not that I'm defending them but they've got to keep others in the playng field with him somehow or it'll turn into a one-man show. That and maybe there are certain judges out there who sincerely aren't into Hanyu's style and just can't and objective about it. It's just the way it is. Look on the bright side. Good thing Hanyu's smart and knows what he needs to still win anyway and the Gods have been on his side so far.

Silver lining, if judged fairly, the guy could probably still win some of the competitions he's lost with the mistakes he made in them ('cept for Boston maybe, think Fernandez really deserved that win, even if Hanyu had been leading by 20 points after the short) but he hasn't been allowed to which is good because our lizard brain won't be able to accept that. Transitions and technique get reduced to nothing to most of us if it means there's a fall. We see a guy skating clean and to hell with zero transitions and wonky techniques and unclear edges and excessive PRs and all-out URs (these are problems spread across several top skaters, not just the one) he deserves to win! Even it's because of things like almost-zero transitions that the "cleaner" guy had an easier time staying on his feet in the first place. And because there's been things like Chanflation in the past, had Hanyu still been allowed to win despite his falls, you know he'll just be put in the same category as him (and probably Kostner as well, to a lesser extent), even though it's not the same given the gap between Hanyu and everyone else is much, much bigger than the gap between Chan and his rivals back then.

Guy probably becomes even more motivated from all this though and his need to come out on top or just be as perfect as he can be with his skating will just force him to push the gap even wider, which hopefully will also push others into brushing up their skills in order to close it a bit.

R198: I don't get the sense that Hanyu actually has a problem talking about his family, though. When relaxed, he lets a few things slip. He seems very proud of them and what they've done for him and would probably shout it at the top of his lungs if he could. But his family doesn't want that. They told him to keep them out of interviews. He's issued that disclaimer a few times and when intrusive media tracked down his relatives and bothered them at their home, they said about the same thing and expressed their desire for their privacy (and Hanyu's) to be respected. And with his dad apparently being the strict principal sort (literally, he's one by vocation), while he can't help himself and talks about his sister and mother sometimes (he gets to talk about his mom a lot in P&G stuff because, well, it's P&G and they're all about moms and they're one of his sponsors, though even then he doesn't overshare, and they don't force him to), he doesn't mention his dad at all cause well, I imagine Hanyu sr. would be more no-nonsense about it if junior were to accidentally spill. And when a parent is a strict disciplinarian, perhaps one just feels less inclined to gush about them, even if deep down they really are grateful and won't mind talking about them.

R198. I saw just yesterday on social media someone post photos of Hanyu with words underneath (I assume he said it) like yes I want to be married at 25 or 26. I saw that and wanted to respond to it. I wish everyone would stop bringing up what he said at what 19? 20? Maybe he feels different now. Maybe he changed his mind. Who knows.

I'm very sorry to break the weekly pity party for Hanyu, but I felt the need to do my DL duty. Here, have a hot gay skater photo to brighten up your days.

R203 Thank you! Anyone know who Eric dated before his Spaniard?

R203 There are people on datalounge who consider this fine lad ugly.

R202 true that. The last time he mentioned it was 3 years ago and since then he has been really elusive about it. But even in 2015 or 2016 he was saying things like 'as long as I love the person and am happy isn't it enough' in reply to questions about his ideal type of girl. I remember noting and other Japanese fans too how he used a neutral term.

This is my opinion. I think when Hanyu says things like playing video games with family I believe it might be with a nephew or niece. I can picture him playing games with them. We can speculate forever about how he feels (lonely, happy) we know we won't be learning too much about what he does privately. He has shared some and to me I am grateful he did. He doesn't have to share anything with us at all. And to be honest I do think it is safer for him to keep things private. He has shared things with us at his ice show (wanting to die) and he didn't have to. Maybe he trusted us to share or maybe he just needed to let it out. Maybe one day he will share more with his fans. Maybe one day he will get sns.

Dear lord for his sake and ours I hope he never gets SNS. People are craaay.

r204 Tbh, I completely don't get how anybody with eyes could consider him ugly. Sure, anime-loving teens might rather go for Hanyu's girly looks, but actually think Radford's ugly? That classically handsome conversation from a while back? Can't get much better than Eric Hotford. Long live the glory of his trashy Insta, a balm for sore eyes.

R208 How is it trashy? Or are you referring to all the shirtless pics. If so, c'mon, hot dude's gotta hot! That hairline is receding though.

r209 I was referring to an earlier conversation about "tasteful Instagrams", I think Lambiel's was the one, where tasteful meant "not containing countless shirtless pics or sexy poses". And well, if it's not tasteful, than it's trashy, right? I'm not an enemy of trashy in that sense, just saying.

I only saw the first clip but I didn't see any sadness or any mention of his social life. Which video is everyone talking about? I Repeating myself again but in interviews Hanyu hasn't used the word "lonely" but "isolated." The isolation he refers to are the feelings he had as an Olympic champion, not loneliness due to a lack of friends. His father used to drive him to all of his skating practices and was mentioned more a few years ago, but he became a principal and is kept out of the media not only for his sake but the sake of his school and students. Hanyu did mention he had his first alcoholic drink with his dad and other male relatives.

Any other videos of Russian test skates? When are the top three juniors going senior?

I'm pretty sure it's the fourth video out of four. Here's a very brief synopsis (not everything/not exact):

Yuzuru: I feel a bit uncomfortable when I’m out so I prefer staying at home. I love chatting with my close friends though. I usually stay home my off day. It’s always like this since I was little because I had to do the training.

[lady says "you’re so sexy"] Y: I’m not sexy at all. [host: you are] Y: I’ve never really realized or ever felt that I have the sexiness that adult man would have [host: Have you ever thought about it?] Y: Actually I have. For the Parisienne Walkways, I was told to express the sexiness. But it was so difficult [Y: host: how should I say? I’m a man too and I feel I have matured after having different experiences like meeting different people or even making mistakes from drinking but you do’t go out, right?] Y: That’s right.

[Host: so for you is gaining experience leveling up in a video game? (laughter)] Y: I experience a lot throughout the season, I have gained so many experiences particularly in the last season. The skating gives me a lot of opportunities like I am here on the tv show today – I feel I am gaining maturity through these experiences

[is there something you can do because of your experiences?] Y: The experience I had at the COC. I guess it was a shocking incident and people may not want me to talk about it but it was that experience that made me feel I can jump in any circumstances. Now I have a ‘so what’ attitude.

[so that experience has helped you grow] yes. [Lady: I wonder that has helped you to gain more maturity, and the sexiness. Man: I think it has.] Y: I am not sure. I hope so.

[Lady: and tell us if you can thik of anyone who you think is sexy?] Y: Yes, here, right next to me. [displays hands toward the man] Man: Are you talking about me. It is amazing. Can you believe he is only 20 years old! [Lady: I know. And we have few questions about the way he responds and what his parents taught him, so we’ll ask him more after the 9 o’clock news]

There were several interesting parts from the male interviewer (though I thought he was rude about the "leveling up in a video game is your 'experience' thing]

First, he said even though he was a man, he felt a tingling watching Yuzuru skate in a clip they showed. (I thought Yuzuru had an unusual expression on his face when he said that but I hesitate to describe it - especially interested in what the guy is saying?? I'm probably projecting ahem...)

Then, when they were talking about Yuzuru sweating more than most people, the guy said in an earlier show, he had given Yuzuru his handkerchief to wipe the sweat off his face. Then the guy said Yuzuru gave it back (Yuzu apologized for not washing it) -- anyway, the guy said he was excited to be holding a handkerchief with Yuzuru's sweat on it.

Finally, they were seeing if Yuzuru had grown (he thought he was 171cm at the time) - the host was 175 cm so they stood back to back - anyway, the host says something excitedly like: "I can feel Yuzuru's back!!" Then a bit later, "I stood back to back with Yuzuru!!"

It was funny ;) Oh and when they were talking about bedhead and how thick Yuzu's hair was, the lady said she would feel it but she knows the fans would go crazy -- so the guy said, "May I?" And Yuzuru said of course and the guy ran his fingers through Yuzu's hair.

The whole thing was a bit surreal -- at least the fangirling and fanboi-ing over him when he's standing right there, looking a bit embarrassed.

R 213. I was starting to feel uncomfortable for Yuzuru lol. I can only imagine how he was feeling. Its really hard for me to understand the celebrity they see in him. Maybe because I'm from NA? When I see Yuzuru I just see him as an amazing athlete. The way I look at a Michael Phelps. An incredible athlete.

He even talked about that (that he's just an athlete):

Lady: “How do you feel about receiving art works of your beautiful face?” Y: “To be honest, I’m not sure how my parents feel, but I feel a bit uncomfortable having so many artworks of my face – a bit embarrassing. But they draw me much more beautiful than I actually am.”

Lady: “Evreryone says you are like a prince. Do you feel like that?” Y: “No, never. In fact, I am not a prince type of guy. Definitely not.”

Host: Then what type? “I woud say – a tough athlete.”

Host: like one who went thru jr-sr hierarchy?” Y: “There is no such hierarchy like baseball or soccer clubs in schools but it is important for me to have the feelings of strong competitiveness or aspirations to improve – so definitely, I’m not that gentle – people who know me well would agree with me.”

Lady: But your posture there looks so beautiful. Even just that posture will draw people’s attention...

He's not comfortable when interviewers geek out on him like a celebrity, especially when they talk about his physical attractiveness. He always demurs by saying he doesn't consider himself attractive or deflects by calling the interviewer attractive, but mostly he just looks mortified. I think he's someone who knows his skating style is beautiful/ethereal, but doesn't consider his face physically attractive. Boy is pretty proud of body though, I think.

r213 I think the male host is the funny guy in this show, and all those comments are meant to be jokes on how big a star Yuzuru is. I'm finding it pretty hilarious, actually.

What I found interesting is that when asked who he considers sexy (I assume it's a standard question and usually the answer is some sort of celebrity?) he points to the male host, not the female. But then again, the funny guy act invited this sort of response. And maybe pointing to the female host wouldn't be appropriate.

He is just an athlete. When I hear that he needs bodyguards I find it strange that it even came that. I guess I'm just flabbergasted at how he is treated in his country.

R216. That's how I see yuzu as well. That face is like omg please I don't want to talk about this. I find him attractive. I think we all find something about us not so favorable. He probably sees himself as just this normal looking guy. Nothing sexy and attractive about him.

R212 Thank you. I’ve watched the videos and noticed a few issues with the translation. I think it’s great that Hanyu has fans willing to translate videos of him and they made a great effort, but from the video and description in their blog, I can tell that the translator is neither a Japanese nor English-speaking native.

He doesn’t say he feels uncomfortable going out, so he stays home. He says he’s a homebody and prefers to be alone (一人で籠るタイプ), which is why he doesn’t feel as comfortable when he goes out. “I do love playing and talking with my friends, but I usually stay home alone on my days off. I’ve always been like that since I was little. I also had skating practice.”

There’s no direct translation for “色気,” which was translated as “sexiness” in the video, but it’s more like a mature, sensual aura. They’re talking more about his maturity and adult experiences.

He does says it’s kind of embarrassing to have so many illustrations of his face, but he doesn’t use the word “uncomfortable.” He says 困る, which means there are just so many and he doesn’t know what to do with them.

I have no idea where the translator got “tingling” for ドキッと, but it means to surprise you or make your heart skip a beat. Lately, it’s used in the context of someone doing something that both surprises you and makes you attracted to them, and the announcer and Hanyu were kind of chuckling at Inohara’s word choice and that’s why the announcer asked Inohara if he still felt that way as a man. But it doesn’t have any sexual meaning in this case.

Hanyu seemed nervous, but not distressed or sad. He said he watches the show every day, so I think he knew what to expect. Inohara was annoying in my opinion, but the gushing and overpraising on the show is partly cultural politeness that all TV announcers do and what everyone does in general. There is an implicit understanding that some exaggeration is involved. And you can see that Hanyu did the same to Inohara. There is a lot of projection going on here, but also some misinterpretation due to the mistranslations and English phrasing.

R220 Thanks for taking the time to make those distinctions for us.

Many top athletes in the US and Europe have security teams not only during competition but all of the time. The difference is that they're usually in a big sport like football/soccer. You can't compare Hanyu's fame and popularity to a figure skater in your own country. You have to imagine him on the level of Messi and Ronaldo, or a top American basketball player.

R222. When you put it that way yes I understand better now.

R220. No question he was nervous. Just that small part talking about being alone. I don't know. My heart broke. I felt he was a little sad. I guess we all will interpret him differently. But we can all agree We just want him happy.

R220 "He doesn’t say he feels uncomfortable going out, so he stays home. He says he’s a homebody and prefers to be alone (一人で籠るタイプ), which is why he doesn’t feel as comfortable when he goes out." Basically the meaning is the same. He is an introvert and homebody at heart and not comfortable when going out. There is no projection at least no more than you are constantly doing, using your knowledge of Japanese (you aren't the only one here) to push your own views as authority. You remind me of a very annoying American lady living in Japan constantly shooting down other people's translations and interpretations on events.

R224 I guess the distinction for me is that being uncomfortable going out could imply that he dislikes the crowd or attention or fears for his safety (e.g., he wants to go out but can't). If he's saying he just wants to stay home and be alone, then it's his preference and choice. I really appreciate people who take the time to do translations because at least I get some idea of what is going on with my favorite skaters even if not all speed translations or youtube translations aren't 100% correct because of the inherent differences between English and Japanese. But it's always great when other Japanese speakers can point out certain nuances that other translators might have missed or give us more context to understand what's being said. Honestly, I come to this thread for the Japanese posters who give us good dirt and that cultural context.

R205. That's interesting to me because I read comments on sns and YouTube that swear Hanyu is not gay. He may not be. I personally think he is. And if you ask these people how can you say 100 percent he's straight they answer with the because he said he wants to be married at 25 or 26.

R226 It's always super lame to me when people point to that interview as their source for his heterosexuality. Obviously a boilerplate answer that tells us nothing about what he really wants.

R224 do you have a different take on the interview? Let us know! Cage match! Cage match! For the sake of DL Im also going to assume you're both shirtless and attractive. And men.

r228 Friend, the longer and more detailed a post about Hanyu the higher probability you're talking to a fangirl who's relieved that she's at an anonymous place and doesn't have to politely dance to the tune of the hive mind of her fan congregation of choice.

R229 Damn you, you are no friend. That's every post on this thread. Including my own!

r203 I can see why people think he's hot but he has sort of a cave man look that I personally don't find appealing. I think you're either into that rugged look or not.

r205 IIIIIINTeresting! I've never heard that reply to the girlfriend question before. I always thought it was odd how he seemed to freely answer questions like those through the 2015/2016 season then suddenly started dodging them. I thought maybe he just got scared off by what happened with that girl the tabloids rumored him to be with. But who knows, some people take a little longer to figure that part of themselves out. Seems unlikely considering he's surrounded by gay guys on a daily basis, but possible considering how antisocial he is.

What I find strange is how vehemently he denies any girlfriend rumor about him - he seems angry when it comes up. You would think that if he were trying to cover up being gay, he'd just let the shipping rumors fly. He doesn't even need a beard since the press beards for him.

r207 Isn't there an option where he could just shut replies off? I only use SNS to follow other accounts so don't know for sure. I personally would like to see him get one just out of sheer curiosity about how many followers he would get.

R231 Same here - always wondered why he doesn't let the girlfriend rumors fly, but maybe it comes at too great a cost for the rumored gf. And if he's so careful about his rep, maybe he just doesn't want to encourage that sort of tabloid rumormongering. It happens anyway though, so who knows. I can see how some people wouldn't be into Radford, but to call him "ugly" is just trolling.

R231. How many gf rumors has he had? I know about the girl that went to school with him and the Evgenia stuff. Yes if Hanyu got an instagram he could turn comments off. I am not so sure about Twitter. I want to say no for that one.

Well, Yuzu's views on Radford are pretty clear...

R234. LOL! Does anyone think he's acting? I mean he could be. He would be one hell of an actor. Sometimes I don't know what to think. I feel he feels he can just be himself on that ice. He gets caught up in everything. And when he does interviews he needs to show a different side of himself. Not sure I'm making any sense lol.

This one is fun but then you got Misha ruining the whole damn thing.

I think Yuzuru does the best at the "sissy that walk" challenge.

I love this one! He is letting loose here.

Kana Muramoto and Chris Reed have split up. It seems pretty amicable, both of them said they had different goals and they are both looking for new partners. Sad to see a successful Asian team split up ... and who does Marina even have left?

R239 the week Reed sister with the Lithuanian blonde guy. That is what she is left with. LOL!

Kana Muramoto and Chris Reed were slated to appear at "Carnival on Ice" - which is right after the October 6 Japan Open. Wonder if they'll still do it?

Updates on GP:

ICE DANCE:

- 2 vacant spots because of Muramato/Reed split (NHK and Rostelecom)

- 1 vacant spot because of Min/Gamelin (Skate America)

- 4 host picks to be announced (Skate America, Finland, Rostelecom and France)

- 2 further vacancies may be announced soon (Rostelecom and Finland) because 2 teams are rumored to have split but not announced yet

PAIRS:

- Finland renounced to their host pick because of lack pairs. They gave it to Stellato/Bartholomey

- 2 splits (Seguin/Bilodeau and Esbrat/Novoselov) and 2 withdrawals (Yu/Zhang and Sui/Han) left 7 vacant spots

- Hase/Seegert get Skate America and France.

-Li/Xie get Finland

- Ruest/Wolfe get France

-Lu/Mitrofanov get NHK

- Stellato/Bartholomay get Finland because the organizers renounced to their host pick (there aren't Finnish pairs at the moment)

This leaves vacant

Skate America host pick

1 spot in Finland

1 spot in France (may be a host pick)

MEN:

2 vacant spots at Rostelecom Cup because Zandron switched country from Italy to Austria and Ten was killed

WOMEN:

2 vacant spots (Skate America and Finland) because Rajcova withdrew from both.

I think that's all.

They almost finished the available pairs...

Women and Men have also the host pick to announce

Ladies:

1 USA, 1 Finland, 1 Japan, 1 Russia and 1 France

Men:

1 USA, 1 Canada, 1 Finland, 1 Japan, 1 France

What is this devilry with Muramoto/Reed? What does it mean different goals, unless one wanted to retire soon, what different goals? They're gonna drop to the bottom of the pack with their respective partners.

The Pairs situation is just ridiculous. I'm crying again that Ilishechkina/Moscovitch had to retire, they'd get a couple of medals in this field, even if Lubov couldn't land her jumps.

r236 You guys really dislike Misha. He doesn't ruin it, he actually makes it better, objectively speaking because he adds symmetry to the scene. Tall sexy daddy Radford framed by two playful twinks.

The IG post by Reed sounds a bit cold towards Muramoto. Wonders what happened

R245 I'm trying to speculate: Chris Reed is 29, Kana Muramoto 25. Maybe he wanted to quit after Beijing and Kana wanted to continue one more cycle. That would account for different goals and Chris being cold towards Kana for giving up on him. But where in Japan will Kana find a partner that she could accomplish more with in 8 years than with Chris in 4, I have no idea.

Also, it's uncanny how Pairs and Dance are deserted whereas the singles get more stacked than ever.

I have a feeling Japan could rule Pairs, like China did, if they put In some effort and hyped the discipline up a little.

R246 yeah, I agree

I would have not been surprised if Reed didn't want to carry on until 2022 and therefore it would have made sense for Muramoto to enter a new parternship now rather than in 2020. However, if he says he wants to continue and will search for a new partner, so it isn't the case because it wouldn't make sense for him to start a new team for only a couple of years.

R200. Thank you for your response. I guess they need to keep in interesting for the figure skating fans. I do believe the scores Hanyu received at 2017 worlds were on the low side with the kind of performance he gave. He basically put everything out there and I guess I was hoping the judges would have scored it right. It will be interesting see how they all do under these new rules.

R244 I don't know if everyone here dislikes Misha. I was ok with him until I saw the petty stuff he was doing to someone he said was a friend. I guess I just lost respect for him.

R225 Thank you, really appreciate it and you explained my point well.

R228 I’d like to know where “tingling” came from, if they think the subtitles can do no wrong.

r241 They won't be performing due to the split according to Carnival's website. Reed plans to continue skating for Japan, but Muramoto could be looking outside the country since she had some offers from abroad. But the split seems abrupt because they got all of their new choreography in June, just performed their new exhibition last month, and announced their theme for the new season, which was, ironically, "To Challenge."

Miyahara updated her blog with an interesting photo.

You all can call me a fangurl I don't care lol. I'm just really fascinated with Yuzuru. Plus I have so much catching up to do since I just discovered him this past Olympics. I read that Plushenko is more Yuzuru's idol than Weir. I feel the opposite. I feel Yuzuru looks up more to Weir as an idol. The way Yuzuru chooses to dress on the ice. The skating style. Sure he does quads since this is the quad era. I'm talking more about that beautiful artistry he has. Then I read somewhere that Yuzuru likes Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga. I know Weir likes Gaga. I don't know. I find him so interesting.

I didn't know any current skater as of January this year, so I'm with you R252. At this point, there' Yuzuru and then all the others. I only watched some of the men skate at Pyeongchang. I didn't even know of Plushenko or Yagudin! Maybe they were skating when I watched but, well, the world was so different before message boards, Twitter, Instagram, etc. You really had to be hardcore to know very many skaters.

Being American though, I did know Johnny Weir. And Scotty Hamilton/Evan Lysacek (ugh times 2). The way Johnny was treated, I guess at his last Olympics whenever that was, pissed me off so much I just intentionally shut down when it came to paying attention to skating - easy to do pre-Internet (though I had a brief surge of interest in speedskater Apolo Ohno). But I loved Johnny so so much -- so that might help explain my enthrallment with Yuzuru -- kind of like Johnny Mach 2. With the women, I remember loving Oksana Baiul that one Olympics - and being intrigued by Surya Bonaly and Midori Ito. And that's about it for the women - I didn't even care about Tonya/Nancy and all that...

I think in the new social media era, it makes sense that a new batch of figure skating fans would rise up this Olympic year, and many would be especially interested in Yuzuru (and Nathan I guess but he sure didn't live up to the hype in Pyeongchang.) I'm trying to catch up - sorry I missed Lambiel for sure!!

As far as Yuzuru and Evgeni, I've been surprised at how gushy Plushy has been about Yuzuru. Not many figure skating stars would deliver a bouquet of flowers to the winner of the tournament after he bowed out (Dick Button says he thinks Plush only withdrew because he saw he couldn't beat Yuzuru at the team event.) But then listening since -- Evgeni talks about how he knew Yuzuru from age 8 or 10 or whatever, had told him then that one day he (Yuzu) would be a champion... I mean, getting attention from a gold medalist that he had admired must have been a real rush for a little kid. Maybe Plushy's exaggerating, but he sounds like he's been cheerleading for Yuzuru all these years, since the ice shows Yuzu did as a Novice.

R253. I watched figure skating when Johnny Weir competed. He was so different (sort of like Yuzuru is today) I stopped after he finished competing. He was always getting underscored and probably because of the homophobic judges. So now I find myself having to learn about all these skaters. I watched Yuzuru skate (i found him on YouTube a month before Olympics actually) and I fell in love instantly with his style. I never saw anything so beautiful since Johnny. What your saying about Plushenko is all new to me. I had no idea he sent flowers. Maybe because of what Plushenko did and said to Yuzuru is why he is one of his idols. I do think Yuzuru thinks very highly of Johnny and does dress close to how Johnny dressed in competitions. I believe he might be closer to Johnny than to Plushenko as an idol. I saw that photo of Yuzuru and Weir hugging at cionti and he adores Johnny from what I could see. I think he even told Johnny things. (how he was feeling with the things being said about him) I know I am going on and on but I am just so interested in Yuzuru. To me he is one of a kind. I doubt we'll ever see another skater like him in our lifetime.

R199 Hanyu said in a TV interview that his sister asked him not to talk about her. He was much more forthcoming about his family at the beginning, but after interest in him increased from both fans and antis, he stopped talking about everyone except for his mother. Someone here also mentioned he has an agreement with the media not to show them. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true - his grandparents were at the Olympics and presumably his dad and sister as well, but there's not a single picture or mention of them from the media.

Good lord. Poor Jason is getting comments on his insta about whether he and Med are romantically involved. Aside from the obvious in Jason's case, it's stupid that two people of the opposite sex can't hang out without people asking whether they're dating.

Brian Orser just posted on his Instagram (on an airplane) that he's off to China! Could Boyang still be in play??

R257 Is Brian going to China for some other confirmed purpose? Otherwise, that is a strange post, considering Brian doesn't post a lot and he must know about all the speculation and interest surrounding Boyang. Is he going to give the Chinese Fed a piece of his mind and then personally escort Boyang and his mom to Toronto? Good lord, these things should not be played out over social media if that's what this is.

I have no idea R258. However, he hashtags the Beijing Olympics. Trying to extrapolate wildly -- maybe the Chinese fed wants a medalist (or more than one) at their Olympics so they're gonna talk to Orser about coaching one or more of their skaters after all.

Maybe they're over their snit about the Chinese judges being reprimanded by the ISU, and they realize they need some help. Also, I think Boyang's performance of his new program(s) - one was "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" -- got some pretty scathing criticism, and that may have triggered this renewed interest in help from outside? Maybe just for Boyang or maybe for somebody else as well (or instead).

Seems pretty likely it involves Boyang though, since the announcement was even a rumor - it was definite at some point that Boyang was going to Toronto and they knew when (late June) and then it just didn't happen (and a week or two before Boyang was the show up, the unpleasantness with the ISU.) Pretty weird if it's just a coincidence.

R256 lol I just went to look. Someone is claiming Evgenia is dating Kristian Kostov? Where are they getting this from?

R254 - at the Sochi Olympics, after Yuzuru won, there's a video of Plushenko walking onto a stage or to the podium or something, and personally handing Yuzuru the bouquet of flowers. I think he may have sort of bowed down to him or something - or held his hand up to say "You're my hero now" - oh I'm not exact on the details but it was pretty ostentatious (I guess partly because the Olys were in Russia.)

Even so... he falls all over himself complimenting Yuzuru, more than Johnny does. Though there's video of Johnny helping Yuzuru's mother design a costume for him with Yuzuru standing by watching - and he looks all of 16 years old or so. So cute!!! Johnny talks to Yuzu's mom Yumi - then looks at onlooking kid Yuzuru and says, "Do you like it?"

I think Yuzu loves them both about equally - but Plushenko goes on and on about what a genius Yuzuru is (more than Johnny does). I wonder if he's a little bit like our boy Misha and realizes that Yuzu has coattails, but I'm probably being too cynical, especially as Plushy was a big fan when Yuzu was a child. I think in an interview Evgeni says something close to: "I saw this kid, he was thin, he was fast, and I said this kid is going to be great" -- also, "I told very young Yuzuru, "Beat me!" - some day you are going to beat me. Come on, do it!"

My 2 cents. Orser needs to keep this off social media. He doesn't need the drama. Maybe he loves drama. Who knows.

R262 I agree. Tracy Wilson also posted a picture of both of them flying to China. Why??

R260 That kid looks like he's all of 8 years old, not even old enough to be a twink. Sounds like some crazy fanship.

After Orser posted that photo of him standing by Evgenia with a jacket that said "SAMBO" on the back -- well, I think Brian likes drama. He always has. Why didn't he shut his big mouth after Yuna left? Why did he put down Trusova, saying she'd lose her quads so 'so what' when Eteri wondered why he hadn't complimented her young starlet? And he must be a bit miffed/worried with Tursy going to Eteri - what if she blooms now after flopping with him? Methinks Mr. O has a bit of an ego. He said he couldn't watch the Olympics that Boitano won and he got 2nd for years because it upset him so much.

Oh, and back on Orser - the rumor I read was that Orser met with Mao Asada and her team in Japan, without telling Yuna Kim he was going to do that, and THAT's why she abruptly left. I wasn't following skating then so I don't know much more than just the rumor, but... well, it might help explain why he asked Javier if he was ok with Yuzuru coming onboard. And why he went by Yuzuru's apartment to let him know Boyang was coming (even if he didn't actually ask him, in this instance, but I think that makes sense, because thinking that Yuzuru will make it to Beijing is, well, an unlikely expectation, especially with Yuzuru announcing in an interview that his "only motivation" now was the 4A.

R265 Re Brian not being able to watch his 1988 Olys performance - I would cut him some slack there. It was in Calgary, he had already gotten silver in 1984, there was the Canadian curse, so just an incredible amount of pressure on him to win and a two minor mistakes later, he lost by a fraction of a point. I'm not surprised it took him a long time to get over that. I think if that happened to Hanyu, he would never recover.

Well, good point, R267. I wonder how much Javier will be haunted by that popped third quad at Pyeongchang after the zayak at Sochi (and also the controversial scoring of Uno.) He's a whole different kind of guy than Orser (and Hanyu) though. But still, I can still see his crestfallen face right after Uno's skate/score. Ouch!!! Worst "pop" in history?

R268 Javier doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will be haunted by anything except maybe a few missed opportunities for quality tail once he gets married and has 5+ children.

Evgenia has posted photos and videos of herself with her new beau some weeks ago. Colorful hearts, fluffing each other's hair, etc. Maybe it's that.

Ah Evgenia's boyfriend..I remember him from Eurovision from a couple of years ago....when I saw some pics of him a couple of months ago, I thought he was transitioning....

Regarding Hanyu's 2 idols: it seems like Plushenko was the idol as a competitor and Weir in terms of style. Skating-wise, he has always emulated Weir to a degree: costumes, spins. And let's not forget he did Notre Dame the Paris program which Weir knocked out of the park and then his full-on tribute to Weir in his Swan exhibition.

So, Boyang might still be coming to Toronto? There's literally no other reason I can see why he and Tracy might be going to China, there are no other skaters of interest there for them. But if Boyang comes to TCC, it will be at the end of August and Boyang's first GP is at the beginning of November. That would give them only 2 months of training together, and 2 months is probably how long it takes to acclimatize to a new place and new training methods and then the chaos of constant travel for GPs. So the earliest results, if any, will be at Worlds. GPs might become a mess for him.

R271 Wait, so is the "boyfriend" for real or does she just like to ship herself with twinks and pre-twinks.

R273. I don't know. I don't follow her on social media. I saw it mentioned on FSU Russian thread. I should have written "boyfriend"

r273 Google tells me he's 18 and 6ft tall and looks like a missing member of One Direction so he's right up a teenage girl's alley. Sings pretty well, though.

Is he famous in Russia? If he were, he and Evgenia would make kinda a cool power couple, and it'd hopefully release Jason and Hanyu from the terrible burden of the Twitter stupidity.

[quote]I thought he was transitioning.

I think she completed. Congrats?

Am I the only one who's really tired of hearing about Med and her "shipping" problems?

As for Orser, he must be worried about not having a future OGM in his current stable of skaters if he's that desperate to get his hands on Boyang Jin.

r277 Well, you know how it is. When you get used to the goods, you want to keep them.

R277 Eh, just skip over them. I'm tired of hearing about how beautiful and fragile and enigmatic and wonderful Yuzuru is... I like the guy fine but it gets to be a bit much. SAme with how petty and hateful and terrible Takahashi is.

I'm interested in how Uno is going to play up the Moonlight Sonata. It's never been a very exciting piece of music for me to watch skaters performing. He's a dramatic skater and Moonlight is so.. .. ... not that. His Flamenco is looking better though. I'd much rather watch that than the Native (American??) war paint performance.

Nathan is a cute kid and I like his energy in ice shows, but even in ice shows his presentation really is lacking. He just seems curled inward in general. Boyang is less shy about things but seems about as sloppy as Nathan in artistry. I was watching the three of them side by side and the difference in performance and skating skills was huge between Uno and the other two. His jumps suck, but he does look good otherwise. I think he's starting to even surpass Takahashi in arm movements. But Dai is simply beautiful to watch, partially because he's been blessed with a beautiful, lithe figure. I'm excited to see the results of all that dance training on the ice when he comes back this season.

I also agree that aisde from Lycasek, they all just seem like fine people without tact sometimes. Yeah Dai and Patrick may have said stupid things sometimes, but you gotta remember they're 20-something kids who live pretty sheltered lives. We all say stupid things in our 20's. Sometimes longer.

I don't really get all the hype about Aliev. I find Kolyada beautiful to watch when he's not falling, but Aliev just seems meh to me?

R261. I saw that video with Weir, Yuzuru and his mom. It was adorable! Plushenko must have seen so much potential in Yuzuru. He probably told him to beat him because maybe he knew sooner or later he would and wanted to be beat by the best lol

I am hoping we see more Weir like costumes this next season. I really think Yuzuru looks lovely in them. He can really pull the looks off. Now if he would just announce his music.

R277 No, you're not. I don't pay enough attention to her to know whether it's a self- or fan- created issue, but it's dumb and not juicy. Although, I wouldn't mind stories about secret pregnancies at a Ukrainian nunnery or Eastern bloc orgies at the olympic village if someone has any to peddle...

Johnny said only about 30% of skaters are gay. Does that count as juicy?

R279 I don't think we're going to see anything interesting this season because skaters are likely going to play it safe so they can get used to the rule changes. MS doesn't fit Uno. The short is better. I didn't really like the clip I saw of Dai skating to Sheltering Sky, but it was just a short clip (he deserves better music and choreo). I like the John Grant piece better, so maybe he will do something interesting with that.

To someone's question upthread about when the top juniors are turning senior. Trusova is eligible in 2020. I honestly don't know who people would consider the other top 2 junior ladies.

Hopefully this is Evgenia's boyfriend. My goodness I felt bad for Hanyu and then for Jason. These little girls shipping her with every figure skater she hung out with was getting quite ridiculous. They don't think how it affects the skater. It obviously bothered Hanyu very much. Not sure about Jason.

R282 No, unless he's saying all of them are about 30% gay. And really, that's not juicy either, just more accurate.

R282 lol is he talking just the single male skaters? Are we also talking about pairs and ice dance in that percent? Where does he get that number?

I had heard 50%, but I can't remember where. Anyway, I thought that number was low lol. Maybe if you throw in the pairs/dance guys, but I'd still doubt the 30%. Johnny's clever and playful - maybe he's counting closeted as straight, just to be generous (and to feel more special and exclusive?) In singles, Javi and.... uh... there must be another one... Evgeni!

Nathan, Boyang, Mura, Keiji, Vincent all seem painfully straight. There's Patrick too.

Hanyu's not capitalizing on his third idol, Lambiel, as much as he should be. He touched the butt, which is a good start, but he needs to get some choreo from him too. One area I think Hanyu could really take it up another notch this season if he wanted to is his spin positions.

If he doesn't count glass closeted and closet cases, the share would be more like 3% than 30%

At Olympics this year there were only 4 openly gay guys: 2 in singles (Rippon, Hendrickx), 1 in Pairs (Redford) and 1 in dance (Polizoskis). If you want to be generous you can count Cizeron

It's hard to deal with the world in which Cizeron is not considered openly gay.

Vincent looks painfully full of himself

R291 first radio interview after he came back to France after Olympics, they asked him if he was dating Papadakis. Lol

Back in 2006, an article in the advocate claimed that at least 7 of the 14 male Olympic figure skating medalists from the past 20 years were gay. I can think of Button, Curry, Boitano, Cousins off the top of my head. Who else?

Misha is straight as he likes to remind to everyone

R294 Orser

And Goebel who medaled in 2002

Sorry, I just realized the article stated Olympic medalists and not just champions, and also in the last 20 years from 2006, which is 1986, so you have: Boitano, Orser, Goebel, who else?

If they include 2006 Lambiel and Buttle

r298 I heard opinion that Yagudin wasn't exactly straight.

It was a little unclear whether the article included 2006 - 20 years from 2006 is odd b/c 1986 wasn't an olympic year, so you'd have to count from 1988 and if you do, that's 15 olympic medalists, but only if you're not counting 2006, so yeah, not clear. Here's the list of medalists from 1988-2006:

1988 Calgary Brian Boitano Brian Orser Viktor Petrenko

1992 Albertville Viktor Petrenko Paul Wylie Petr Barna

1994 Lillehammer t Alexei Urmanov Elvis Stojko Philippe Candeloro

1998 Nagano Ilia Kulik Elvis Stojko Philippe Candeloro

2002 Salt Lake City t Alexei Yagudin Evgeni Plushenko Timothy Goebel

2006 Torino t Evgeni Plushenko Stéphane Lambiel Jeffrey Buttle

r301 20 years sounds better in an article than 18 years. The number of medallists checks out.

That is 14 including 2006

Boitano

Orser

Petrenko

Wilye

Barna

Urmanov

Stojko

Candeloro

Kulik

Yagudin

Plushenko

Goebel

Lambiel

Buttle

Not in article but bringing it forward to '10, there's our old whipping boy Daisuke Takahashi and Vera Wang's poodle Evan Lysacek.

I tend to forget Goebel is an Olympic medallist...

R301 R302 Duh, thanks for pointing that out. I was counting medals instead of medalists. Orser, Boitano, Goebel, Lambiel, Buttle. Who are the other two?

Forgot to add Yagudin. I've heard the rumors too.

Seems like all the best ones are gay, except for a few exceptions.

r306 Probably two closet cases or ones that there was a lot speculation about.

ETA, Like Yagudin. So we need go agree on only one more.

Paul Wylie wasn't a rumoured Christian fundie closet case in previous skating threads? Old dataloungers,, enlight us..

Urmanov? He lived with Rudy, I think and had to deny he was gay.

R310 There are some pretty funny comments about Wylie's supposed preferences on older DL threads. While entertaining, I don't know if they're true...

If you throw in 2010, we're over 50%

This is taken from Buzzfeed (2014), so take it with a grain of salt, but the quotes are interesting to me. Are they downplaying the numbers because this was Sochi?

[quote]According to Lorrie Kim at Outsports, “unofficial insider estimates” place the number of gay skaters at roughly 25% to 50%. But, notably, a number of gay men have claimed the percentage is much lower — perhaps because, in being out, they feel alone in their communities. Rudy Galindo told Salon in 2002 that he knew hardly any gay skaters, and that the guys he toured with were "basically 98 percent straight." Brian Boitano once said that "the majority of people in skating are straight. That's a fact. Nobody in skating would deny that." Even Doug Mattis, a gay coach and former competitor who makes a point of reaching out to young LGBT skaters, believes the sport is less gay than people think it is. "I've been asked out by more pro football players than skaters," he says, grinning. He's a short guy in a smart gray suit, at once warm and mischievous. He lowers his voice: "I tell them, 'Please! You'd crush me.'"

Maybe the majority of skaters are straight, but it's the gay ones that rise to the top most of the time?

I wonder if these people being polled are leaving out all the ones they know and are not interested in. "Gay people? No, no one here is gay. You should come to our bar nights when Stephane, Dai, Yuzu, Brian, and Misha all commiserate about how no one is gay!" - Johnny, maybe

Maybe they were just good at hiding and denying that they fooled even their fellow gay skaters.

Boitano's 98% bwahaha. There's a huge chip on male skaters' shoulders about their sport not being taken seriously, men hating it, blah blah. None of them will speak honestly, probably - not even Weir. There's $$$ involved.

That buzzfeed article could be correct if they are counting all male skaters. Not just the ones that make it to Olympics or other big competitions. R315 I think the ones that are gay are the ones on top. Most. Not all. Don't know why I feel that. I look at what I see now. The ones on the top feel the music. Very artistic skaters. They get it so to speak.

Wait - sorry, I got Galindo and Boitano mixed up. Well, who wouldn't...

r287 lol, pretty sure you got 50% from datalounge. I definitely remember reading that on here.

r311 That was Yagudin. He and Galindo stayed in the same hotel or something and Yagudin started out a press conference by denying anything between them even though no one asked him about it.

r294 Brian Boitano - gay

Brian Orser - gay

Viktor Petrenko -wife and kids

Paul Wylie -wife and kids

Petr Barna - wife and kids

Alexei Urmanov - wife and kids

Stojko - wife (no kids)

Philippe Candeloro -wife and kids

Ilia Kulik - Divorced with daughter

Alexei Yagudin - wife and kid

Evgeni Plushenko - Wife and kids

Timothy Goebel - gay

Stéphane Lambiel - unofficially, but obviously gay

Jeffrey Buttle - gay

I think we're taking the article too literally. They're either just throwing a number out there or counting guys about whom there was gossip about being gay. I never got any gay vibes from any of the rest. I suppose if it's anyone, the highest likelihood is the only one without the kid. Maybe Elvis' macho persona was just overcompensating for insecurities about himself but I really don't think he's gay.

28.5% of the Olympic medalists from 1988 to 2006 are gay. Johnny seems pretty accurate.

continuing past 2006

Lysacek - unconfirmed either way.

Takahashi - unofficially gay

Chan - claimed to have had a girlfriend

Hanyu - unconfirmed either way. Supposedly denied being gay in private conversation with an actor on the set of Magnificent 9. Likes to touch men. Strongly denies romantic connections with females. Never romantically linked with anyone.

Ten - supposedly straight though I haven't personally read anything either way.

Uno - unconfirmed. Other than me, DL seems to think straight or asexual.

Fernandez - several girlfriends. Rumored to be bi though I think that's largely as a result of him feeling up Hanyu all the time.

If we only count those connected with male partners, 28.57%

I'll throw Hanyu into the gay column since most of DL seems to be sure he is. That means we're at 33%

I've only ever seen Lysacek rumored to be gay on DL, but if we include him that's 38%

If you want to include rumored bisexuals, Fernandez and Yagudin, that brings the number to 47%. Pressure that's wishful thinking. And if we include pairs and dance, the percentage drops drastically.

"pressure" should be "pretty sure"

R321 That's interesting, I've never heard Fernandez was bi, even on DL, despite his, ahem, fondness for Hanyu. Rudy claimed Yagudin was definitely straight.

I never bought all the talk of Weir/Lambiel hookups because honestly, who would bottom? However, this video might have changed my mind. Bonus: Weir flashes his thong as Lambiel spins him around.

r323 Just fan rumor here and there. Nothing in the news or anything serious

Didn't Johnny admit that the he and Lambiel tried to get together but couldn't work out because they "both wanted to be girls"?

[quote]Supposedly denied being gay in private conversation with an actor on the set of Magnificent 9.

Lol what. Haven't heard that one yet. Did the actor spill?

R325 Do you know where you heard this from? I've only heard it repeated on DL. Lambiel is so private about his homosexuality, it's hard for me to imagine that Johnny would openly say that.

Yeah the actor was proudly talking about it in an interview, no idea why he would bring it up but just brought it up unprompted. Apparently he was talking about "the gays" at Hanyu and asked if there's a lot of them in his field, and Hanyu answered "more than you'd think", and the actor asked "so are you one of those?" and Hanyu said "no, not me."

r329 ~Interesting. Lol.

R328. That's crazy. Not to mention very rude. I am sure that question took Hanyu by surprise. Do you know how old he was when this happened? Did he expect Hanyu to say. Yes I'm one of them.

Lol, yeah as if Hanyu would came out to a random actor.

I think he was 20 or 21 depending on when it was filmed.

Thank you R332. That actor was very inappropriate to ask that and then tell others.

Saw this on Twitter. Apparently new photos of Hanyu at tcc. Not sure who took them. Hopefully not the paparazzi. He doesn't look too happy.

As an American, it is so odd for me to see paparazzi pictures of a figure skater, no matter how accomplished (assuming that's who took these pics). Thought that except for the little kids, he was pretty safe at TCC.

I also find it strange as an American. I thought tcc was like a safe haven for him. I guess not. I hope whoever is doing this stops and respects his privacy.

R321 Chan's current girlfirend is former pair skater Liz Putman

Eh, I guess if you're famous enough and attract crazy fans that buy calendars and mugs with your photos on it, you'd be hounded by paparazzi regardless of your profession.

Inside TCC is relatively safe because it's a private club, but there are still enough fans that figured out his bus routes and followed him around that he can't move freely to and from practice. He looks like he's unhappy because he saw the paparazzi, and is turning away from the camera. Poor guy.

Regardless of the seeming acceptance of gay skaters like Johnny, Japan is still a very conservative society - not just socially but also politically - and it's considered quite acceptable to spew homophobic words in public. The actor that asked this question was an older guy too, and spoke with such an air of condescension, it made me angry just reading the interview. Reminded me of the gross old man who called a 15-year-old Hanyu "erotic" on camera.

R337 That's gross, because the 15 year old Hanyu looked very young (attaching picture because it seems his love for rhinestones and ruffles went way back). Well, I guess it was good Hanyu had the sense not to come out to some nosey geezer who would have outed him if given the chance.

One of those articles mentioned here about gays in figure skating says that lot of these guys are so firmly ensconced in the closet because their sexuality is discussed and denigrated even before they're equipped to understand it:

[quote]"Most skaters start when they're younger than 10, and immediately their sexuality is a topic of discussion, even before they're sexual. Adults would say, 'You're such a great skater, but I'd never let my boy figure skate.' Hockey players look down on us for being faggots. We didn't know what it meant at all, we just knew our peers thought it was bad, so we didn't want to deal with it. That becomes an ingrained reluctance to bring it up even as we get older."

R333 those paparazzi pictures are from some trashy Japanese tabloid that confirmed for those of us waiting with bated breath: Med and Hanyu are NOT living together. Phew, I'm so glad we were able to clear that one up.

R283 Thank you. I was watching Kostornaya’s FS and it’s like Daniil’s randomly selected pieces from all the major Romeo and Juliet films and put them together without any thought to the flow. Why does he keep doing this?

R333 Those photos come from the same tabloid responsible for traumatizing his classmate. They stalk him wherever he goes in Japan, but it’s surprising they sent someone to Canada unless a local paparazzo sold them the photos, or the photographer is there for another reason. With Brian and Tracy in China and the Obon holiday coming up, media day shouldn’t be for another week. Takahashi is back in Japan, so members of the Fuji media crew should have already left Canada. But it doesn’t say when the photos were taken.

Another member of TCC used to leak information about Hanyu's practices on weibo, so the club was never a safe place unfortunately.

Brendan Kerry got one of the Rostelecom Cup vacant spots

Brendan Kerry, not Cha?

Looks like being above average is a disadvantage to Cha.

I guess it's more photos that his antis can collect now. These damn paparazzi.

R337. That man is disgusting. Who the hell talks about a child like that? He was a child and children should be off limits.

R343 Age of consent is 13 in Japan so in their eyes he was free meet. I think earliest I've seen people making those kind of comments was when he was 14 and this was some 30-40 year old housewives going on about how they would like to teach him things in bed. So not that suprised.

R344 Age of consent is not actually thirteen. That is a common misconception spread on the internet due to a lack of understanding of Japanese laws. It's18 and people are prosecuted.

The disgusting comments were made when he was 20, after he won Sochi.

R340 Not surprised re Kostornaia given the incoherent POTO for Zags (the OGM no less) where each element had its own cut of music. Such attention to detail! Im glad they're at least consistent and still act like they don't give a shit about Zags even though Med is no longer there.

I read about older women making those kind of comments. I thought he was older though. Saying that When he's 14 is gross. 14 year olds are still growing and maturing. Ugh I don't know. I'm from western culture and I see them as still babies. Children that should be off limits. R345. Even at 20 those comments are disgusting. They should be kept to themselves especially comments like that.

Reed is supposedly meeting with Scali in Chicago. There is talk that the Muramoto/Reed split is connected to Zoueva and Scali.

Uno's brother is back.

The protocols of the junior event in Germany today are a bit of a mess

there are elements with 4 points differences in GOE between one judge and the other. For ex

+3 for judge and -1 for another

-2 +2

-1 +3

R348 if the split is due Reed wanting to go with Scali in Chicago, does it mean the other Reed sister is also going with Scali? If so, Zueva is left with basically no-one senior. and neither junior if Lewis/Bye are skipping at least JGP season.

I was reading up some basics on the dance teams that are left, and this is what Wikipedia says about Sinisina/Katsalapov:

[quote]In mid-2016, Sinitsina/Katsalapov returned to train in Moscow as they were banned from the rink in Canton, naming Oleg Volkov as their coach.

Can anyone enlighten me? Why were they "banned" ? Sounds juicy!

R351 we never got the true story about that! Rumors were flying around at the time including that he hit her. But they are still dating. So either the rumors went wild or she just doesn't care.

r352 Hopefully, that's just a rummor, but... would that be a reason to be banned from the rink?

R353 from FSU

"Rumours are he hit Sinitsina during training and that's why they had to leave Canton"

"That's a very mild version of the rumours. Rumours are that he behaved to her in such manner that the police had to be called, so it must have been a bit more than just hitting her once."

but if it was so bad, I can't see how it didn't develop in some more serious exposé

r354 Holy crap. That's all I can say.

Wasn't it the Shibs who got them kicked out? I don't know the full story but I could see them clutching their pearls over some relatively innocuous stuff and using it as an excuse to push out their competition. Nikita seems douchey, but maybe it was a lot of arguing and tantrums - shoving or something like that. I just find it hard to believe he'd be dumb enough to hit his girlfriend in front of everyone at the rink.

R345 He did get those kinds of "erotic" comments when he was 15. Just cuz you know about something that happened later doesn't mean it didn't happen before. It was kind of a shock at the time to fans in neighboring countries, but it's considered a little less inappropriate to talk about a teenage boy that way in Japan than some other countries nearby - I'm not saying it's acceptable but it's considered less of a terribly big deal - so it just passed. He was already making waves by that point even when he wasn't winning, and... well, "erotic" is a word that kinda seems to follow him around. The interview where he was asked if he thinks he's sexy and he said 'no, not at all' was also asking if he thinks he's erotic, not sexy.

Age of consent in Japan is 13 IF the girl and boy are both 13 or 14, respectively. You get penalized if the boy is older and the girl is 13. Each perfecture has their own laws that are up for interpretation but there are several codes that each say 18 is the age of consent while anyone under 20 is still a minor. I think they're changing it though to 18 now?

R357 in Japanese, what's the difference in usage between erotic and sexy?

r365 That would have been kind of awesome in an evil bitchy way.

What's the backstory on the hate for the shibs? I get the visceral reaction - creepy closeness, fakey sweetness, plasticky looks, famewhorey sns presence. R356 suggests some actual juicy backstabby maneuverings behind the scenes though. Give me something to justify my very shallow dislike.

I feel like the only fan on earth who genuinely likes Shibs. I don't find their SNS presence famewhorey, but then I don't find Misha Ge famewhorey either. I find nothing wrong with self-promotion in a career like theirs. And I just like their skating.

But some evil to their "sweetness" would add some spice, but quite honestly I don't think they've got it in them.

Golden skate doesnt work????

R361 I don't dislike them (or Misha) on any real level either. Just mild distaste from time to time when they are treacly sweet and overdo it with the sibling love (carrying their medals around at the oscars did not help). I agree with you on the self promotion and certainly skaters should do what they need to do to make a living post skating career, cuz pickings are slim. It's just that the venomous reaction to them on DL made me wonder if there's anything else to the hate besides the obvious ones that I know of.

R342 I think the fact that Kerry trains part-time in Moscow helped his selection for Rostelecom as organizers have to pay for his travel expenses too

r364 Well, bummer that South Korea turned down organizing the GP.

R358. I would like to know the difference as well. The antis already posted the photos which I'm not surprised and I'm sure they have them saved in their Hanyu folder on their computer. I wonder if it was paparazzi or some crazy fan. You can tell the person that took them was at a distance. People are asking the one that tweeted the pictures (above post) to remove the photos off the timeline. Not sure they have as of yet.

Apparently, Brian Orser and Tracy Wilson have signed a deal to provide regular guidance to all of Team China.

Weibo post also stated that for now, Boyang isn't going to TCC to train.

The arrangement sounds gimmicky and lacking in substance. Lots of fanfare for what basically sounds like a training camp. Is this a way for both sides to save face after the Boyang deal fell through?

Still not buying that this was Boyang's personal decision. No way would the Chinese Fed put up with this free will/personal preference bullshit. Also, he seemed totally excited about moving to Canada on his insta in June just before they yanked the deal. Oh well, what a fuckin bummer.

R357 The screenshot was from the show with the famous comments R334 was referring to and Hanyu was 20 not 14 at the time. The comments were selected by the show because they were exceedingly creepy to make fun of his fanbase. It’s like a meme now.

I couldn’t find anything describing a 15 year old Hanyu as erotic in Japanese, could you share more details about this actor and where it was said? During his 2015 performance of Vertigo (which was choreographed when he was 15), the commentator described Hanyu as trying to show a mature side with sex appeal which he couldn’t do before. That’s not what you were thinking of, right? The time the word “erotic” was used by an actor (actress) to describe him on television was when he bit then unzipped his jacket, which was last year.

[quote] It was kind of a shock at the time to fans in neighboring countries, but it's considered a little less inappropriate to talk about a teenage boy that way in Japan than some other countries nearby.

Which country? It would be shocking in Japan as well. Hanyu wasn’t even well known in his home country until after he won his first Olympic medal, so I’m surprised such comment made its way to these other places but went unnoticed in Japan. What did the actor say [italic]in Japanese[/italic]? That will make it easier to look up.

R350 Good question. According to her Instagram, Allison is vacationing in Illinois right now. Nothing from her partner since mid-July. Did Scali leave Marina with her blessing?

Takahashi will be representing his old university skating club (Kansai KFSC). He’ll be sponsored by Sky Court (a real estate company) and Imju (cosmetics brand by Pias Corporation). Puma Japan will also continue to sponsor him.

Boyang could still join TCC the following season hopefully? I think he received his new choreography much earlier than everyone else at The Ice but was still the weakest skater.

[quote] Good question. According to her Instagram, Allison is vacationing in Illinois right now. Nothing from her partner since mid-July. Did Scali leave Marina with her blessing?

I've both Reed sister and Lithuania blonde boy as IG contacts. So I can see their stories. They are still training, yesterday he posted a story of them driving to the rink at 5.35 AM and also in previous days they had a couple of Stories from the rink but I am not familiar with these rinks enough to understand if it is Canton or Chicago.

I think Scali has a boyfriend living in Chicago but he was living there also when he was in Canton. With the reduction of teams, I guess Zueva doesn't need a big team Igor Shpilband also lost 2 assistants (Bourzat is gone back to France and Zuerlein has gone to where Parsons and McNamara/Carpenter train) but he got Camerlengo.

I find this ceremony/dais thing really odd. First he was just going to be Boyang's coach - now he's like part of the Chinese fed? And Tracy too? Curious and curiouser.

I hope this collaboration doesn't end up eating into Orser/Wilson's time so much that they shortchange Yuzu, Med, Cha, Jason, etc...

I'm not sure what the deal with Jin was, or if this result is better for him than what was previously on the table, but this sure as hell sounds like a bigger and better deal for Orser and TCC.

Feds' have only dealt with him and his team on an individual skaters' basis, and they usually only send one promising star at a time. The Rusfed has also hopped on this train despite having their own successful reputation as a training ground. Sounds to me like the Chinese Fed is opting to go further to sign a long-term deal spanning more than just a single skater without having any of them uproot themselves. Sure it's not going to be the same special treatment for them the way it is for specialized individual students permanently based at TCC, but maybe that's not what the CFed feels their skaters need. For Orser and his team though, it's like instead of signing a one-time deal to single-handedly deliver just one product, he's now signing a long-term deal to help deliver a bunch of them. China even went so far as to officiate it so this is a big deal for them, too.

Plus, Orser and his team don't even have to go to them permanently the way foreign coaches have to change their base of operations to coach in the US. China would be sending skaters to him at TCC, since he comes complete with not just a team, but a base with full-on facilities. He will also get to travel to China more often and see how they do it there and maybe adopt some new ideas. That's a step-up for him and his team, imo.

It's new and it's unchartered territory. Why not be less negative and think a little bigger? Here's to a brave new world in skating.

r374 I can't watch the announcement at the moment, does it say Chinese skaters will regularly be coming to TCC?

One positive thing, hopefully, is that the deal would include TCC regular choreographers.

But my big head-scrach is: who will they be giving guidance to other than Boyang? As TCC has reputation for training singles, Chinese pairs probably won't be using said guidance. Is there another Chinese skater who would be worth the trouble? There's one girl, can't remember her name, so maybe her?

r373 If Brian and Tracy don't have to go to China often, I imagine the impact on the TCC primary skaters will be negligible. If the will have to travel often, then it won't be great, for Med especially, I think. She's the one who will need supervision the most, to change her habits and improve her skating skills.

For all they have done for other skaters, both the successful and less successful ones, and all they have achieved, I personally think Orser and his team at TCC deserve this recognition and promotion. And, although to a lesser degree than full-time students, more skaters will get to experience what Orser and his team have to offer. This is a definitely positive step. There may be some negative repercussions as it's still new, but I'm sure they'll learn to navigate around it and keep them to a minimum.

That day when 16yo Kim walked to Orser and asked that he coach her despite him not having any track record as one and having no prior special relationship before was a fateful one. Who knew that it would lead to all this? I wonder what spurred her and her team (re: her mother) to come to that decision? Whatever it was, I'm grateful to it, despite how their partnership ultimately ended. Tho if it hadn't ended, we probably won't see Fernandez as successful as he is today and probably not even Hanyu as well so...I guess some things do happen for a reason.

R375: I don't know for sure but with the way things have unfolded (based on the CFed's press release announcement) and from how they're angling that official ceremony, this sounds like the logical conclusion to me.

Con't from r377: After all, Orser didn't become successful all on his own. He became successful because he's got an ideology and method (which isn't just one, mind...it's tailor made for each skater that comes to him) developed by him and the team at TCC and TCC as an establishment itself comes complete the facilities to execute said methods.

I'm not sure if he'll be able develop a method to suit individual Chinese skaters who don't train with him full time but I think his ideology may be able to change a few things for them, hopefully for the better.

Orser has had his share of failures as a coach. Those failures get little publicity because his successes have been so spectacular. Both Yuna and Yuzu would likely have done fine with any competent coach. Brian probably had the biggest impact on Javi's career because he was willing to go the extra mile for him.

I would not be surprised if this "deal" with China is just face-saving in light of Boyang's refusal to train in Toronto.

[quote]Both Yuna and Yuzu would likely have done fine with any competent coach.

They would have done fine with any competent coach, but would they become Olympic champions? That's impossible to tell, we only know what combination of student/coach did work out.

Yuna had the benefit of being the focus of Orser's learning-how-to-be-a-coach process. Hanyu had the benefit of Orser's experience. Both had the benefit of having TCC approach to training, facilities, specialists, privacy - all of the things Orser had a major part at developing, if I get my facts straight.

Brian isn't a magician who's going to transform all of Team China and figure skating with a few training camps and seminars. You're going to go from an "individualized approach" to some sort of PCS factory that Brian et al are going to supervise remotely from Toronto? Please. It's really nothing new for skaters to attend training camps or consult with other coaches for specific things they want to work on, but at the end of the day, it matters where your base is and who's standing with you at the boards.

r379 Actually, from what I see from Chinese posters on the forum, the "saving" part probably comes from the Chinese side and has to do with already-approved-funding for Boyang's training at TCC.

r381 Yeah, it sounds like much ado about nothing. Still bummed that Boyang won't be getting that "individualized approach" .

Forgive me if this has been posted I saw this translation of what Brian Orser said:

quote from brian: "CSA and i have been communicating a lot regarding boyang and it's unfortunate that he cannot come train with us at this time. boyang is a very talented skater, and i think we could've helped him but we respect his wishes."

R382 Probably a little face saving on both sides, but yeah, I think more on the Chinese side because it's a way for them to not look too insular while keeping all the skaters/coaches/credit in China. Brian made the mistake of announcing the Boyang move before I guess everyone was on board, but he could have easily blamed it on Boyang's homesickness or last minute change of heart or whatever, like he is now, and only Boyang would look bad for putting comfort over his career. Brian can now walk away with no hard feelings, some first class trips (they're going to keep that up, right?) to China every so often, a bit of extra cash.

Only Boyang loses in all of this - Brian certainly isn't the only good coach around and Boyang's current coaches have done a good job with him, but in skating, reputation matters and now his rep is of someone who isn't willing to sacrifice to develop as a skater. I'm sure that had he gone to Orser, judges would have suddenly seen maturation and polish in his artistry, even if he just continued skating the same damn way, just with slightly better choreography.

[quote]I'm sure that had he gone to Orser, judges would have suddenly seen maturation and polish in his artistry, even if he just continued skating the same damn way, just with slightly better choreography.

I'm pretty much convinced of this.

Lol, I went to GS to read comments about Boyang, and a thread about thyroid meds used in sport and fs drew my attention. I was happily reading along, then hit page 3 and suddenly there was no thread. It wasn't even wanky, do they often delete threads just out of the blue?

I don't know what to think of the orser and boyang/China thing. I am wondering how this will affect his skaters at TCC. I am not familiar with all the coaches they have though. I mean it's nice seeing Orser expand so to speak But I hope it's not at the expense of his own skaters.

R386. I don't go to GS often but I went yesterday and read some saying the Hanyu 2017-2018 thread was gone or something? Can't quite remember. Maybe the site is going bonkers.

I think GS is having financial issues. They started requiring payment for competition threads. Way back when I considered donating to them but then I noticed their blatant bias in moderating the forums and refuse to pay anything. Most of the threads are mindless and boring anyway.

r389 They require payment for competition threads? Like FSU? Well. It means there is no free general skating forum now. I guess this place and Planet Hanyu especially will explode during competition time, lots of posters at GS seem the casual type, not willing to pay, and they will have to go somewhere.

If you had to pay, which would choose, GS or FSU? Both biased. FSU seems to be more North American and Dance centric but somehow more chill at the same time. GS is bigger, more international, and posters seem younger, but it won't carry over to competition threads as younger and international fans probably will be less willing to pay so the old guard will reign supreme.

I quit watching skating for a while and then when I came back FSU was a pay site so it's been years since I've visited FSU, but I recall it being more fun than Goldenskate and I think it has a bigger membership. On Goldenskate it seems like 90% of the posts are made by the same 5-10 posters, only a few of which seem to be intelligent. I think FSU is a little bitchier and I recall a lot more foreign articles that I found interersting.

Goldenskate moderates really tightly but then seems to let certain posters do whatever they want - when the same few posters are consistently in the middle of multiple fights with multiple posters, it's pretty obvious what the problem is but instead they censor the other people. I think Goldenskate took sides with the wrong fan base - Planet Hanyu always has a surplus of donations. I realize the costs are lower since it's less active but clearly those fans are more willing to help support if given a supportive environment.

FSU is a hypocritical site. The owner of the site is this Australian or English woman confined to a wheelchair and she’s batshit crazy. The mods play favorites, banning some posters for allegedly violating their rules, but not the posters they like. I was the former. And there are tons of posters there who are clueless when it comes to dealing with race, homophobia or poor folks.

r392 For some reason I always got an impression that FSU has quite a number of gay posters?

And, I don't think they've been getting on such deletion sprees as GS. Like, if there's some dirt to be discussed, it'll be more honestly discussed (or bitched about) at FSU, GS seems more pearl-clutchy and more likely to delete anything controversial.

They do shut down threads about skaters being gay. It’s no ones business and all of that...but they love talking about heterosexual skaters...

R393 Really? I will need to take a second look at FSU. Last time I was there, it was a bunch of older (likely women) posting walls of text about obscure shit no one cares about.

R372 Thank you for the update. Maybe Allison's Illinois trip is just a day or weekend affair in that case. Any chance you also follow Chris Reed's instagram, too? Muramoto just updated her her account with a statement.

FSU have some clear spoof posters like the pro heterosexual Ross Miner and anti Rippon.

On GS they usually ban any talks about rumoured love lives of skaters, also straight ones.

r394 They do? Threads like we do here about Hanyu which is all pure speculation or the glass closet ones like Cizeron and Takahashi? (I think one of the reasons we get so many Hanyu fangirl here is that this is the only place they can speculate all they want, lol. )

r395 Uhh, don't quote me on that, it was nothing obvious, but I enjoy their Team Trainwreck thread occasionally, and that's the impression I got. And when I first started reading there, they were in mourning over the death of one of their most popular posters who was an openly gay man from, uh, Poland, I think. (They were surprised to learn he was actually young and suspected a hate crime.) So it could have coloured my perceptions.

Lol, the wall of text. I think if it wasn't for that one nutjob the rest of them wouldn't stand out that much.

Kana and Chris Drama: Dammit I'm nosy. Both of their statements make it sound like it was her decision to split -- but that doesn't mean it was her behavior/her fight (though it might have been.) And a fight is the only thing that makes sense.

The fact that they got new programs choreographed in June, had GP assignments, and were just added to Carnival on Ice on July 27 -- well, it makes it harder to just accept it and move on. She wouldn't all of a sudden decide he was past it, after the money spent on choreography and the pretty good year just past. His comment was curt, despite wishing her well at the end, but his comment about physical condition seems to be a possible clue(?) - or one of them could have been an asshole about something?:

chrisreed77 "I am hugely disappointed with how this partnership has ended but regardless I am in great physical condition now, I’m not done yet, I do plan on continuing the pursuit of achieving greater heights for Japan in Ice Dance. I would like to thank everyone involved your support will never be forgotten and I will work even harder. And for Kana I wish her all the best in her future endeavors."

[quote]I think one of the reasons we get so many Hanyu fangirl here is that this is the only place they can speculate all they want, lol

What, they don't allow people to orgasm to backcounter 3As over at GS and PH? (Sorry backcounter 3a guy, it was one of the highlights of this thread for me).

GS has far more posters than FSU. FSU is far more cliquish and everyone there seems to think they are God's gift to comedy. Lots of Dave Lease wannabes. GS has its obnoxious posters too (and some overlap, of course), but it's far more diverse.

Has anyone considered that Boyang might be on some doping regimen that would have been disrupted if he went to TCC? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

R399 yes, I get the impression it was her decision and there is some resentment from his part

[quote]Has anyone considered that Boyang might be on some doping regimen that would have been disrupted if he went to TCC? It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Is doping even an issue in FS? I know there's always speculation about the Russians, but I think the confirmed cases have been rare. Anyway, if it was that big of an issue, he wouldn't have agreed to go in the first place (and at some point, he did agree or Brian wouldn't have announced it).

I spent a year in China and had some slight dealings with (Communist) party members - and they're spoilt brats. One took us out in his Rolls Royce and he didn't have a real job - it was a uni and for every faculty member, there was an assigned/attached party member who, well hell, I don't know what they did -- and I wasn't there long enough or privy to the goings on to figure it out -- but just a big racket, with a lot of divas.

I still think that reaction to the ISU judges thing - plus the speedskating pique - and pulling out of Cup of China and the junior comp -- that all came too close to the switcheroo with Boyang for me to believe it was just a coincidence. And now they're trying to cover it all up? Or like someone said, the money was already allocated and they roll in money anyway, the party apparatchniks at least.

Remember the banning of images of Winnie the Pooh? I wasn't allowed to access any western Internet messageboards that had any 'naughty' words on it, like fuck or shit. The stupidest things were censored. Power corrupts...

NRW Trophy

Tango Romantica

1) Muller/Dieck 64.02

2) Tessari/Fioretti 63.39

3) Koch/Nuchtern 62.84

4) Moscheni/Fabbri 55.87

So how many women do you think are posting in this thread? Especially for Hanyu?

r406 Ehh, a lot, I think. I'm assuming every extremely detailed analysis of Hanyu's behaviour and long posts on how lonely/vurnelable/mistreated/cute he is come from a woman. But as long as the rest of the thread moves along, I don't care all that much.

Apparently, Muramoto’s instastory around the 4th said something like she has a right to her own feelings and decided to choose happiness. Did anyone see it? In her English statement today on instagram, she said the decision had been mulled over “the past few weeks,” although that was omitted from her Japanese statement. I don’t think they had a CS assignment.

R399 She must have brought up his knee.

Is Golden Skate Canadian?

r408 Curioser and curioser. Does Kana have a boyfriend who might play a factor here?

R409 I don't think so, not publicly anyway.

Reed's girlfriend Kerstin Frank just announced her retirement a couple of days ago.

FSU and GS are for white elitist types who like to think that they’re liberal when in reality, they are not. There used to be a Google newsgroup alt.skating, run by a college instructor named Trudy Marripodi. I think that she had Asperger’s or something because the only skater she loved was Brian Orser. The trolls made mincemeat out of her, of course and it was hysterical. She was one of those stand who would get upset if you knew something about Orser that she didn’t. Then there was one straight guy named Isaiah who was homophobic and thought that Michael Weiss was a misunderstood skate god. Some of them were pretty nice, especially the Canadians, but overall, an uptight group. Skating fans tend to be introverted.

r408 CanadianSkaterGuy, who I assume is Canadian, is allegedly one of GS writers Ted Flett. Who is Canadian for sure. Their main writer is Tatjana Falde, Scottish living in Scotland. Dorispulaski, one if the main admins has a US flag next to her name. The key person would be gsk8, but I don't know what nationality she is.

I've heard from someone who claims to know him in person that CSG is not Ted Flett. gsk8 is from the US. Some of the Canadian posters on GS like to complain about the mods' discriminating behaviour against them. Which is bs, if you look at the warning and banning history. The favoritism is closely tied to who is or isn't a paying member or longtime contributor, regardless of nationality. If you've been around long enough and/or a donator and you're really naughty you'll get a time out, but they won't ban you even after several infractions in a short time span. It's funny to me how each and every identifiable fan group on there seems to think they are the mistreated ones.

r401 I think the last time I was an active member on FSU was over 10 years ago so either I'm mis-remembering or their members moved to Goldenskate when FSU started charging. I guess I was under the impression that FSU had a bigger base because when I was active on the board it seemed more active than Goldenskate is now but that was a long time ago. Unless they do regular cleaning of dead accounts, I'm guessing neither has even half the members listed between people who have lost interest or made new accounts after forgetting their information or being banned.

r413 that makes sense. I only skim through the site to see if there's any interesting news I haven't heard elsewhere or intelligent conversation - there rarely is. It was obvious that there was some sort of bias. Between the ones I've noticed most consistently embroiled in some sort of fight being Canadian and the fact that the forum automatically deletes posts with "Chanflation" or PlanetHanyu.com, I figured it was a pro-Canadian bias. But I don't follow the site much so it makes sense that they just skew toward individual posters rather than fandoms.

The Canadian posters complaining about discrimination against them is hilarious. Some people are just delusional. I've heard of non-Canadian posters getting immediately banned for complaining about the moderating. The simple fact that those other posters are allowed to stick around after complaining shows leniency

Anyone want to guess when media day is? I can't be the only one looking forward to what music Yuzuru will be skating to. Who else hasn't said anything about their music besides Yuzuru?

Careful, r415, you will be punished for your greed by having Hanyu skate to Carmen and Les Miserables.

I would like to see Yuzu skate to the song from Troy. Maybe have it as an instrumental.

R416 Thanks for the good laugh.

R415 We haven't heard anything from Kolyada, no FS from Jason Brown or Boyang, no SP from Bradie. Don't think we've heard anything from Gracie Gold, but I don't really follow women's

Part of Bradie's SP is linked. Maybe a musician amongst us could say what the music is? Dramatic/classical kind of piece? Hell, I'm so non-musical I can't even categorize it but I like it.

R419 Sounds like Hi-Finesse 's Rebirth.

These stories about the history of GS and FSU are really interesting.

R398 [quote] And when I first started reading there, they were in mourning over the death of one of their most popular posters who was an openly gay man from, uh, Poland, I think. (They were surprised to learn he was actually young and suspected a hate crime.)

Did he actually die or was that fake, too? What group was the hate crime committed against? That’s hysterical and disturbing.

R411 R412 R413 R414 Is there overlap between the mods at FSU and GS or is there a rivalry going on? Is CSK also posting under a different handle on FSU? Who is aftershocks? How is the gymnastics board that was mentioned before connected these forums? Any more stories and dirt appreciated.

Here's the whole short program (Bradie Tennell) - it's pretty cool! Hope she has a great year. Go girl with the 3Lz-3Lo with a lot of spring!

Yeah, definitely Hi-Finesse - "Rebirth (featuring Natacha Atlas)." Hi-Finesse makes all of that movie trailer music.

You're good R420 - that's it. I'm really happy with her music choice (and dark costume). I may be watching the ladies this year, with the Japanese all in a cage match to see which one will rise up, Gabby unfettered(?) by Osmond sitting out, and Bradie not playing little-girl dressup. Who am I missing? Oh we still have Carolina showing that women's bodies can hold up too (sorta).

Speaking of cage matches, how did I forget Evgenia Orser vs Danlil Eteri Zagitova!

I saw mentioned in ONE place, and even they weren't postiive, that one of Carolina's programs was Amy Winehouse's "Back to Black." God I hope so. She needs some enthralling music this late in the game, and petering out in the long (fingers crossed she won't).

r425 Carolina performed to Back to Black as one of her programs on Fantasy on Ice, and it was indeed mentioned it was her new SP. Original version.

r420 He definitely died, to the best of my knowledge. I read about it some months after the fact. He was a long-time poster, like over 10 years, with huge post count, very opinionated, huge interest in all things figure skating, live reports from events ranging from Worlds to junior GPs, went by handle Ziggy, which altogether probably made people think he was older. Then he suddenly stopped posting. Some people had his Facebook, and on Facebook the guy's brother posted a message that he was dead, and his death was sudden, unexpected and devastating, and when/where the funeral would be/had been (I don't remember details, there was I think also something about gaining permission from Facebook to access his account). Some video of him came up where he was trying to skate on some rink and looked to be in his late twenties or early thirties. As the brother specified neither accident nor illness, and the place of funeral indicated he lived in the more conservative part of the country, it was speculated that he might have been a victim of gay bashing. Nothing more than pure speculation, though.

R416. LOL! Hilarious.

R426 Oh, god. I’m so sorry. I completely misread your post. I thought you said he was posing as a gay man from Poland, but it was later found out that he was young man who had committed a hate crime. That’s incredibly sad what happened. Did they find the people who murdered him? Thank you for sharing.

r428. There is a thread about it at FSU, but it's in the Archives which you must be a paid member to have access to. If I remember correctly, the gay bashing part was only speculation based on facts that he was openly gay, young and that family did not reveal the cause of death. He might have as well been climbing in the mountains and had a fatal accident, I suppose, it would have been just as sudden and devastating to them. Shit happens.

R429 Sorry again. I tried to correct myself but was too late. That's still very sad. Thank you again for sharing and being patient with me.

r430 Don't worry, I re-read my own post and I see how it could have been confusing.

On, to happier subjects!

Carolina's Back to Black SP. Needs more black lace, tbh.

omg, upon rewatching, I noticed they censored "dick" with a sound of a bell.

I wonder what would happen if they didn't sensor it in the GPs, etc. Maybe the controversy would help the dwindling skating fanbase? Then move on to stripteases or something? Joking - but I love the choice. Hope she gets her jumps in shape.

* I have no idea why I misspelled censor good lord...

BTW, does anybody know if NBCSports is going to air all the GPs are just Skate America? One reason I fell away from following skating is I never could figure out how to watch it - with all the sports channels, espn, nbc sports, etc., you'd think they'd put more figure skating on. Or maybe they do... I'd like to see the challenger in Canada that Yuzuru, Evgenia, Jason and Gabby are going to (Autumn Classic?) That's a hell of a lineup. Maybe Jun hwan Cha too. Or even Boyang, now that Brian is working for the Chinese fed.

Oh, I saw this Instagram on a fan Insta-"story" (team_orser I think) so I didn't know how to capture a screen shot of it but it said:

Brian and Tracy signed a contract and will regularly come to China to help the skaters there.

WHY can't they send the Chinese skaters to TCC ffs - that's where the great facilities are, and it would mean less time/effort for Brian and Tracy, who have a shitload of contenders to tend to in Toronto! They must be making a pretty penny if it's true they'll often go to China to train, who? Boyang and Xiangning Li (who's set for NHK). They already kicked Yan Han out.

R431 Oh, you’re very nice. You made perfect sense. It was completely my fault.

The bell sounds like it was added for emphasis.

I don’t know if it’s relevant anymore, but I found an interview with Muramoto and Reed from April of this year. While the JSF and their sponsor Kinoshita Group covered their training expenses, Muramoto’s mother still had to send her 1,000,000 yen (over 9,000 USD) every other month and Reed’s family was also providing financial support. At the end of the interview, Muramoto said her goal is to medal at Beijing 2020.

And just realized that James/Cipres and the Knierims are both using Wicked Game for their FS. Not sure if they are the same versions. Cizeron choreographed for James/Cipres, Aljona and Richaud did the Knierims’ program. If they stayed together, Seguin/Bilodeau were also going to use Wicked Game.

Is there enough time for China to develop a serious ladies Olympic medal contender?

R434. I don't get why Tracy and Brian are doing this except more money. I honestly think they shouldn't. They have a team in Canada that they should be there for. This is how I feel about the situation.

I was just thinking this while there was a basketball half-time. Not sure why. Maybe Hanyu gets mad when he is shipped with women because he has a secret boyfriend that nobody knows about. He doesn't want to hurt the guy he loves. Yeah? I mean it could be possible lol. Or maybe not.....

Oh I'd love that R436 lol. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think a lot of fans would lose interest if ANY sort of love interest showed up - real or fake. They'd also lose interest if he retired and moved on to whatever he's planning to do next - once he talked about opening a skating school like Plushenko's trying to do, but I imagine he'd run up against some serious hate from the rival skating powers in Japan, in Nagoya or wherever.

Maybe he could team up with Plushy in Russia - he said something once about admiring the Russian style and precision... Oh I'm being silly but IF he despises paparazzi and fanbase hysteria, there's a pretty clear answer - get out of the limelight. Fans move on pretty fast because they need fuel to keep the obsession burning - they'll flit over to the next femme twink or who knows who... Shoma seemed to be coming out of his shell at The Ice, I thought. Maybe him. He seems more able to just keep on trucking no matter what nonsense is flurrying about.

And it just dawned on me that Misha was in China working with - a pairs or dance team there? and Boyang?? Oh I forget but I know he was there - and I'm pretty sure he spent some of his childhood in Beijing and speaks Mandarin. He also choreographed the ice show in Korea that Orser produced. I wonder if he's somehow involved in this latest Chinese "contract". I don't think I like it either -- it was set up just right before -- with Boyang moving to Toronto with his mother and a full-time interpreter. He needs intensive skating skills work, yet so does Evgenia....

r436 That's really romantic, but unlikely. Either it'd be a doomed Canadian affair with expiration date or a doomed Japanese long-distance romance. Better not.

Maybe he could move in with Lambiel and Deniss Vasiljevs - at this point, Lambiel would work ok as his coach (I think Yuzuru could pretty much be self-coached at this point, as long as he had someone by his side emotionally) - he could even help Deniss with his jumps. I don't think that was one of Lambiel's specialties so together they would be a power coaching duo, a la Brian/Tracy. (and they could get back to that tango we caught a glimpse of :)

[quote] o... I'd like to see the challenger in Canada that Yuzuru, Evgenia, Jason and Gabby are going to (Autumn Classic?) That's

Skate Canada just announced their assignments for September. Daleman will do the challenger in Salt Lake City instead of Autumn Classic

Thanks R440. Maybe that's for the best - not putting Med v Gabby head to head at a small event, right off the bat.

The Skate Canada assignments are

U.S. International Classic (Sept. 12-16, Salt Lake City, USA)

Gabrielle Daleman

Nam Nguyen

Camille Ruest / Andrew Wolfe

Haley Sales / Nikolas Wamsteeker

Nebelhorn Trophy (Sept. 26-29, Oberstdorf, Germany):

Alaine Chartrand

Keegan Messing

Evelyn Walsh / Trennt Michaud

Piper Gilles / Paul Poirier

Nothing said about Autumn Classic.

I'm very confused. I made a note from some earlier announcement that the Autumn Classic was to have Yuzuru, Evgenia, Gabby, and Jason. Now at least one of them is definitely not going - are any of them?

Japan issued this lineup not long ago: Team Japan CS Assignments: Lombardia: Shoma Uno, Kaori Sakamoto -- US Classic: Mai Mihara, Yuna Shiraiwa -- Autumn Classic: Yuzuru Hanyu, Wakaba Higuchi -- Nepela Trophy: Keiji Tanaka, Rika Kihira -- Nebelhorn: Mai Mihara, Marin Honda -- Finlandia: Rika Hongo

But tickets are on sale now for the Autumn Classic and the photos they're advertising are of Javier Fernandez, Kaetlyn Osmond, Virtue & Moir, Hanes & Cipres. How can that be right> Still, linked is the ad (and it's the same on the Facebook page) and you can see it for yourself. You'd think if they knew they were having Hanyu, they'd say so?!?

What a flaky off-season.

Sorry, Satoko Miyahara not Mai Mihara at the US Classic - and there are some additional Japanese assignments.

Doh... I need to go to bed. Autumn Classic is just showing pictures of who won there in 2017.

R443 technically Daleman can do also Autumn Classic given Skate Canada hasn't announced their line up for that event. But if she does Salt Lake City as announced, it would be 2 back to back events which seem a bit pointless to me in September

The pics used to advertise tickets are usually useless. For ex, Finlandia Trophy (the Challenger, not the GP) is using Adam Rippon who won't obviously be there

Thanks R446. It's my first season to follow skating, after getting into it at the Olympics, so I'm over eager obviously... I agree back-to-backs for Gabby seems a bit much.

R420 There's no overlap between mods, nor a full-fledged rivalry between GS and FSU as far as I can tell. The clientele is pretty different. Like R390 said, FSU is more ice dance centric and its populace older (which is explained by it having been a pay site for a long time, ergo it was unattractive for newer/younger fans to register) while GS has been catering to everyone until recently. Tatjana Flade has a pro-Russian bias and is (sometimes not so) subtly playing favourites in her articles for GS. I can't say much about FSU, because I don't look at the site often, nor have I ever been registered there.

On GS what I've noticed is that on the one hand you'll find many inoffensive folks playing by the rules and merrily chatting about boring fluff and then you have a couple of creeps, belonging to various fanbases, whose entire existence seems to revolve around trolling. In a way it's entertaining, because they spice things up at least, but it gets tiresome fast. They got rid of some of them with the purge in 2017, but some still keep coming back under different aliases and it's pretty easy to detect them. One of the posters in the previous thread here, who tried to stir up shit against Takahashi with all those misconstrued stories about him designed to make him look like a jerk displayed a familiar pattern. I'll cut them some slack though, maybe they're just unaware of the inaccuracies and trusted their source. But the originator of those stories clearly tweaked details and left out context (presumably on purpose) and is either holding a grudge and on a vendetta or a certified troll. Whenever people come up with comparable defamatory fabrications about Hanyu they're rightfully torn apart by an angry mob.

R414 It says in their regulations that you're not supposed to promote external websites, nor is it allowed to use negatively connoted terms that might hurt a skater's reputation. That's why those posts get deleted. They interpret and tweak the rules at gsk8's whim though. She looks at the current tide, decides what she doesn't want to see on her board an then adjusts the guidelines accordingly. I guess that's the main reason why the fan groups, who complain about unfair treatment on GS, keep changing all the time. The mods occasionally read PMs by the way, so be careful what you discuss with other posters "in private".

r448 That explains it. I once got a warning for accidentally misspelling a poster's name. I forgot what they called it, but when I looked at the guidelines several weeks later, I didn't see anything in the rules about it - there's a request to spell skater names correctly but it's not like that's enforced at all. I don't know if there's another page somewhere, but I don't even see anything about negatively connoted terms either and the guidelines I'm looking at only bans linking to commercial sites.

I remember a thread about snubs where people were chatting away without incident for 2 or 3 pages. As soon as a Chan Stan that starts fights whenever someone doesn't think he's perfect in every way and the greatest skater that ever existed got involved, the thread immediately got closed because it was potentially inflammatory. No rule infractions cited.

It was obvious that they knew that 1 poster was going to start fighting and rather than deal with that 1 person they closed that entire thread that a lot of people were enjoying.

I have to think Goldenskate will lose a lot of traffic once the season starts. Not sure where they'd go. Datalounge might offend a lot of skate fan sensibilities and I can't think of another general skating forum.

R437 I know I will probably be a fan of Hanyu's for life. I still am a Johnny Weir fan and follow him on instagram and Twitter. I hope one day Hanyu can have at least an instagram because he can turn off comments while allowing his fans to see what he is up to. I do believe if he wanted to start his own skating school it might have to be out of Japan. How about him and Lambiel getting a skating school together? Sometimes I wonder why he continued skating after his second Olympic gold medal. The only thing I can think of is he loves skating very much. Perhaps it's the only place he can express himself. Maybe he has done it for so long he doesn't know what to do right now without skating.

R438. Yeah I think any relationship would be doomed. And I will put this out here. I do not think he will be getting married at 25-26. I wish those nuts on sns would stop binging it up every so often.

R 448 I'm the same person who asked about the history of GS and FSU, who has had the stories about Takahashi and all of the dirt on the other Japanese skaters here, unless you're thinking of someone else (I don't have an account at these other forums). What I've reported on Takahashi, from his violent habits to his jealousy, has come from his own books and interviews, which I have named and provided where possible.

R451. I really don't like Takahashi. I saw this photo of him with Hanyu (2012) with their medals. you can see a fake smile from Takahashi. I really do believe Takahashi is jealous of Hanyu. Maybe he believed he was the one that should have won 2012 nationals. I do not think either one of them is fine with each other and is a reason they stay away from one another.

NRW Ice Dance Trophy (international competition) - final result

1) Muller/Dieck 163.31 (comfortably ahead in PCS. Close in TES)

2) Tessari/Fioretti 157.9

3) Koch/Nuchtern 151.38 (only 4th in FD)

4) Moscheni/Fabbri 148.58

It is still early but M/D are ahead for German leadership, especially given they won PCS. In RD it was close but N/K need to work on the FD (Notre Dame de Paris) in which they also suffered on the technical side. M/D FD theme is, erm, cancer.

If C/L are done, both these Italian teams will go to Worlds. T/F suffer from him being pretty basic

R452 I don't think it's fair to judge to Takahashi based on how he looked in a photo, which is why I've only reported on things he's said and actually admitted to doing.

R454 you're absolutely right I really shouldn't judge by a photo. But I have read your posts about what he has said and done and that was enough for me to dislike him. The rest of my post I still believe to be true (still being jealous of Hanyu)

R449 Had there been any discernible alternatives they would have lost a significant chunk of traffic a long while ago. I think the break-away of Hanyu fans didn't hurt them as much in the long run as some thought it would. There are many more people, who are discontent with the way the forum is run though. For them there is nowhere to go to. Datalounge, I suspect, is not the place they'll emigrate to, because it's unmoderated, isn't that widely known and has the standing of a gossip site, I agree. And anyone, who isn't a Hanyu fan won't be found at PH either. There are a couple of specialized forums for fans of specific skaters, but for general fans/fans of multiple skaters there is no other option than GS and FSU. Maybe some of the skating related discord servers will become more popular? Whatever happens it'll mean the days of an inclusive place, catering to as wide a community of interests as possible would be over. It would also hurt the visibility of the fs community and ultimately of the sport itself. Which would be pretty sad.

R451 R454 I have his books here and it certainly comes off quite differently when put into context.

1) Anyone, who has been following Takahashi's career during that time knows the context of those "violent" episodes you referred to. The way you put it made it sound like he has chronic anger issues. I'm sure most people can relate to crying or losing your temper out of frustration, disappointment, physical or mental exhaustion when no matter how badly you want to and how hard you try you can't overcome your own limitations at a certain point. Yes, he admitted he threw his cellphone at his trainer once and his bag and boots across the locker-room a couple of times in tears. He snapped when he had to take a slew of setbacks shortly before Sochi, exhausted from sleep deprivation due to the constant pain in his knee and the bothering medical contraption he had to wear at night and nothing worked out the way he imagined. Sometimes it's simply all too much. He was in a dark place. He admitted it's nothing to be proud of and apologized. There's no bad blood between Watanabe and him and they're in fact still on very good terms. (Him and Honda too.) Watanabe was even the first person he told about his intent to return to competitions. I don't understand the need to exploit and sensationalize anyone's vulnerability under these circumstances. It was a common human reaction, nevermind an episode that has long been settled between the involved parties. Call it saving face or whatever, I'd say it speaks in Takahashi's favour that he was extremely honest about this.

2) Where's the statement of Takahashi not wanting anyone to take his spotlight outside the rink coming from? Is there a reliable recent source that confirms this, preferably his own words in print or audio? When he was in his late teens to early twenties he semi-seriously admitted he dreamed of becoming famous, but hasn't mentioned anything of that sort since to my knowledge. In more recent years he has been saying, while he likes to be the center of attention on the ice, he doesn't feel comfortable to be in the public eye outside the rink at all. He's quite a private guy, who doesn't devote his time to self-promotion apart from a few and far between instagram posts. He didn't even fancy the idea of holding press cons to announce his retirement back in 2014 or his recent comeback, because he didn't want the mass media to blow those news up.

From "2000 days": "I didn’t actually want an exaggerated retirement press conference. I thought it would be enough if the news will go out small, from surrounding reporters, not a press conference. However because a part of the media reported the information first, things got confused, and it became extensive and very different from what I planned, and I myself was very confused and surprised."

And regarding his comeback announcement: twitter.com/redgreendress/status/1026176815654744065

However as he wrote in his autobiography and his newspaper column: In competitions and exhibitions he always strove to be the one, who gave the audience the best show and who would be cheered for the most. This being the area he was most competitive in, he didn't want to lose to anyone on that front and started doubting himself and progressively resigned when Hanyu and Machida leapt forward to seriously rival him in that respect with their performances in the 12/13 season. Is that really to be held against him? He even concluded that passage in his book with the following supportive words: "Ignoring my personal feelings, I think it’s a very good thing that Yuzuru won the gold medal. Because of his gold medal, there will be more children who will say they want to be like Hanyu-kun, and it was good that it was Yuzuru, whom everyone expected to be the next one, won it, and I also think it will be exciting to see his future. He’ll be leading from now."

Once again, context and wording are key. If one were inclined to do so anything can be turned on its head and given a negative spin.

R457 I will provide the actual quotes with page numbers. Please do the same. As far as I know, Takahashi has never published his books in English. I've provided links to the news articles before, but if there is anything else you would also like to see, let me know and I am going to put it all together. I never claimed there was bad blood between and his trainer, but that Watanabe spoke about Takahashi's habits when frustrated on television, and so did Takahashi in a televised interview to promote 2000 Days.

Everyone is jealous of Hanyu. Are you serious? Even Javier. If you think he is not , you re naive

R457 Maybe it's because I'm already a fan of Dai's skating, but I never thought the original posts about the boots or Dai's issues with Hanyu were that big of a deal, nor were the posts extreme or took his behavior out of context. Of course real people aren't black and white and usually there are explanations for the things they do. I'm not surprised that there are (very sympathetic) reasons for Dai's outbursts or that he's not this purely villainous or petty person that some people make him out to be, but in the end, he had his outbursts, he said things probably knowing they would set off his more rabid fans, he held his press conference on the eve of Hanyu's big day etc. Those things didn't make him better or worse in my eyes, frankly, but people will judge him based on his actions (even if there are mitigating circumstances behind them) and they're entitled to do that. The particular poster you're questioning has always been careful to correct people who have gone off the rails demonizing Dai. In either case, I want to say I really appreciate your both providing info and receipts and hope to see more.

No. Not everyone is jealous of Hanyu. I do not see Javier as jealous. I believe he was and is proud of Hanyu. Takahashi? Yes I believe he was and maybe still jealous. Hopefully he isn't anymore.

R461 Don't bother with R459, it's just the Daitroll doing its trolly thing.

[R462] Hi, cocksucker, starting again? Javier IS jealous , not in a bad way, but he is. It is normal... Just like Mao with Yuna. You got something to do with a sport? I bet you dont . Stay with watching FS on bad streams and stop your stupid accusiations because someone looked bad on someone. You re pathethic. Takahashi is/was jealous and javier is also. Only Takashi is more straightforward , javier is always sweet and polite for everyone. But i dont think those only feelings he has inside . Why are you so intolerant..

***looked at someone... Your hate for skaters like patrick or dai are pathetic..is it something personal or thats becasue they seem to hate Hanyu? And thats unacceptable?? Or mayve you re just jealous because they are better skaters ARTISTICALLY then hanyu ????? They are , lets face it...I am not fan of them. But you re biased, cocksucker

R462. Thanks. I usually do not block. It fooled me. I wonder if it realizes most either have it blocked or laughing at it. Post after yours is just so stupid and then it wonders why nobody really responds to it.

I thing that every skater has his pro and cons, and all of them have different personalities but you can only look at them and guess what they thing , but you can not read their minds, you´ll never know what they really thing about each other until they tell you whats really going on!

[R66] Exactly, why those fans of hanyu are so hateful??? They dont need much to hate . Dennis, Chan, Takahashi, who s next? Everything is in their heads. They take words out of context and put them to make theory on their own

It'd be kinda funny, I think, if the sensitive GS-ers came to DL during the competition season. Their reactions to "I'd fuck Takahashi in the ass" and "J bet Hanyu's a size queen" would be priceless. And the evil Misha Ge meme and Creepy Shibs meme.

But I'm guessing that the non-hardcore non-paying members will actually end up at Planet Hanyu, which does have general competition threads. I'm highly interested how this will turn out.

R458 I'd fuck Takahashi in the ass and call him "Yuzuru" the whole time just to make it extra special.

Since we're all bored here, I'd like to ask: would a comment like "I'd fuck Takahashi in the ass" get me a warning or an immediate suspension on GS and would it matter if I were a paying member?

469 WHERE ARE MY PEARLS, I HAVE NOTHING TO CLUTCH!

R470 I think "fuck" and "ass" would get censored like in all PG rated forums, so you'd get "I'd *** Takahashi in the ***" - it doesn't carry quite the same impression. If you were a paying member they'd probably delete your post and give you warning every time, if not, they'd kick you out on your second offense.

R471 maybe there's a workaround, like I can say, "Dai is so pure, like a delicious cinnamon roll that is asking that it be eaten, its frosting liked off and its soft moist layers be pierced and foisted on my enormous, pulsating finger.

r472 lol

That would work, I guess, it'd take some time to deccipher

Out of curiosity, I looked up how much GS want for subscription - it's cheaper than DL, $6 a year. I guess we won't be seeing the pearl cluchers here after all.

Maybe this move will work out for Goldenskate. But only because there aren't any good alternatives if you're not a Hanyu fan. Which I suppose is good since I think it hurts the skating community to lose the most popular general skating forum.

It's a conundrum - I refuse to give them any money because I don't support how the site is run but the site is run based on who pays or has seniority. I doubt I'm the only one in that situation. I'd much rather pay to post on DL. It's a lot more fun even if it is less active.

R466. I understand what you mean. We all are going to see things differently though. I hope I am dead wrong on Takahashi. But i just feel something isn't right with both him and Hanyu. I hope we see something that shows us all is well with those two. Maybe the ridiculous antis would stop?

[quote] I doubt I'm the only one in that situation. I'd much rather pay to post on DL. It's a lot more fun even if it is less active.

you can get away without paying on DL. The Datalounge peak time don't usually coincide with figure skating competitions.

Thanks for all the Golden Skate/FSU info. I'm new to skating and sometimes lurk there but I suck at fan board "propriety." Same w/Planet Hanyu. All gush, all day, never a remotely critical (or even questioning) thought allowed.

I tried Reddit and good lord. 10,000 tiny threads on some dinky point or another - and you'll spend hours dipping in and out of them and never get any news - or maybe I just don't understand how to navigate that board.

I hope these skating threads continue at Datalounge - I think they may be the only place online you can be open and not follow some sort of fascist line (and authority). Lots of interesting things developing, especially with the women, after a long Russian-skate-bot drought. And even an American hopeful - and it's been a while since we had a contender (fuck Evan Lysacek I refuse to count him).

I'm new to posting here. I have lurked on both planet hanyu and golden skate and I found both places boring. I actually found this place by accident I guess. Did a search on Yuzuru Hanyu and this board popped up.

The last time I posted on message boards was when aol had their boards But it got so infested with trolls and then aol finally just shut all the boards down.

PH is not my crowd and I don't post there (once saw a poor soul get in trouble for saying Hanyu has a tight ass), but it is a good resource for videos and translations if you're into Hanyu. FS fandom in general is kind of complicated because of language and cultural differences so I guess sometimes sites like PH and GS have to keep things as genteel as they possibly can to appeal to a wide range of people.

Stumbled upon this place while looking for a place that focuses on Hanyu that isn't all gush and pussy-footing around certain topics (tho, if you can ignore certain aspects, all the other Hanyu-centric and skating-related places are nice in their own way to hang out in so I don't have any huge problems with them). And while there's quite a bit of bad-mouthing going on here that is so unrestrained it's basically unabashed character assassination that I find a bit on the over-dramatized spectrum of thingsーdon't get me wrong, I like myself a bit of drama every now and then but the eagerness to villify that happens here is a bit over-the-top for me even for the general demographic of this placeーbut there's very little judgment of the posters themselves if they made enough sense and enough quality content for all that I was able to stick around.

I thought this place would be trashier and well, it *is* trashy for the most part, but there's also some good stuff I find discussion-worthy being posted. Also, there are some other things that can only happen here that I find pretty funny. Strange thing is, for being an unmoderated place that people can talk in an unrestrained manner about anyone and anything, I actually do find this place less toxic than the general skate forums. Suppose I can guess why.

Despite some over-moderation (only at times), I loved Television Without Pity, and I feel like there isn't any other place left that is as interesting as it was - except THIS place, which is even better in some ways. I feel like message boards are all dying in the Twitter/texting age.

And when people talk about following skating on Twitter, how the hell do you do that? Let's say you're a Daisuke fan (I'm not but I don't hate him - just hardly have a clue who he is) -- anyway, do you go to the search bar and enter #DaisukeTakahashi and then many tweets about him appear? I've tried to follow Yuzuru there and my timeline is full of Japanese that I go the Google translate, usually ending up feeling it was a waste of my time, and I'm about to just give up, but seriously, I'm confused how anybody can use that site as a place for any kind of thoughtful or racy or fun or even remotely interesting discussion. Mostly I've been looking at a lot of fan art and that's fine but... well, after a while, it's dull.

And he's pretty huge - lesser skaters you might like, like Kolyada, (who I do like a lot, but how do you get anything out of Twitter, or even Instagram, at ALL?) That's where Golden Skate is cool because they have a thread for each skater and even though you can't really do much other than praise and if you're a nobody, you feel awkward -- but at least you can find out what he's up to and that's worth something but it's still pretty empty, discussion wise, at least compared to here. If you have to keep everything pristine and prudish, what's the point?

* When I said "lesser skaters like Kolyada" I didn't mean to imply he was, well, a lesser skater -- I meant a "lesser known" skater. Nobody has a more beautiful quad Lutz and his skating in general is graceful and has more gravitas and balletic quality than Hanyu's in my opinion, and I do really love Hanyu's skating. Anyway, I felt bad for putting it the way I did.

R483: I think gravitas is something that differs from program to program and performance to performance and of a skater is able to show it fully in a program that calls for it, then they have plenty. That said, I think Hanyu has proven he has plenty of it in numbers like LGC and particularly aggressive performances of less extroverted programs that I can't particularly say someone like Kolyada objectively has more gravitas than Hanyu does. But Kolyada does seem to have a more classic, restrained and smoother feel to his style while Hanyu's more...avant garde...I guess? And it always has this element of wildness to it. Even in his more delicate and refined performances, he still maintains an undertone of it, albeit in a much more restrained capacity. But that's more a difference in style rather than expressive skills, I would think.

Correction to r484: if* a skater

Yes, you put it better than I did, R484. I was looking for an adjective to especially describe Kolyada at his best - more classic, restrained and smoother. I guess I was using gravitas to mean that. To me, Hanyu shows a lot of gravitas in Seimei - less of his trademark wildness, avant-garde, organic natural arm movements (as opposed to balletically trained, controlled ones.)

I'm not good at describing skating. And also with jumps - Hanyu's are glorious!! Kolyada has what? only one quad that he seldom nails? When he does, it's magnificent, in its height and technique but I think I've only seen it once. That certainly not a technical advantage over Hanyu - quite the reverse. I don't think anybody has a technical advantage over Hanyu - certainly not Nathan. Many of his jumps make me cring, even if "rotated" as though that's the be-all end-all of jumping ability. Hopefully the higher GOE will finally reflect the true quality of a fabulous jump - and Hanyu is a master (please be healthy Hanyu so we can see more of these treasures!!)

More to defend my iffy word choice -- it's very debatable but when I think of the word gravitas I mainly mean "weighty". Hanyu to me is light, delicate, ethereal, playful, his movements often have a wildness or a lightness - his whole body does. It's one of his great attributes and it's rare. It's the opposite of ponderous or slow/heavily grounded.

I remember Kurt Browning saying Patrick Chan was a "heavier" skater, and he didn't just mean that he weighed more. And I feel that same kind of deliberate, controlled, grounded, and "heavy" feeling in Kolyada's best (not the Elvis junk - but the pieces where he can show his classical chops.) Like this sentence, it was what occurred to me in comparing them:

Earth and water had a natural heaviness ("gravitas"), which they expressed by moving downward toward the center of the universe. [while Hanyu is, as Robin Cousins said, almost "ethereal" - like an otherworldly being, with an amazing lightness to his jumps and often to his style in general - an ease, flexibility, sometimes whimsy - which I think of as the opposite of "heavy" or the opposite of "gravitas"

About message boards: the discussions do happen, quite lot, when something new comes up, on GS. and bring over the gossip. ) Skaters get criticized quite a lot but only in general threads, not in fan threads. Go and look at Boyang's thread, whoo boy. It's really informative, btw. Sounds like Boyang actually was the one to decline the TCC, possibly influenced by his coaches. Heck, I'll bring it over.

Everything below is one big quote:

"As a Chinese skating fan who followed all the coaching change drama series (several fs forum & SNS explosions lol) since April, I'd like to put in my 2 cents here.

1.Boyang's attitude

He has not directly spoken or posted his opinion, but people make deductions from stuff we can see. Back in June, a fan he's close to (to whom he gave his Spiderman costume as a gift) wrote a lengthy weibo post on how Boyang is very reliant on his old coaches, and a complete different set of training methods likely won't suit him. Boyang liked (as in clicking a "like" button) that post, so did his coaches' son who works in the training center, and so did several of his rinkmates. (After many people started talking about it he cancelled the like.)

The national fed wanted him to go, and he almost "split up" with them over this matter. After getting choreography in Canada, he flew directly back to Heilongjiang Province instead of Beijing. In July, the national team started summer training for the new season in Beijing's new training center, but he didn't show up. Instead he trained in a skating club in Shandong Province (they have a poster of him and say you can come to watch top notch skaters' training).

Of the things above there're some evidence, i.e. news reports, the club poster, weibo timelines etc. In addition, there're rumors that Boyang said something like "asking me to change coach is like asking me to change father." Rumor also has it that if he leaves his coaches, they may not be able to secure a spot in the national team with no other prominent student.

2. Could he get the help he needs elsewhere in China?

I would say it’s hard. His coaches' students generally aren't known for their skating skills. Yes, there are other Chinese skaters who have nice ss like Yan Han and Sui/Han. But to get help from their coaches would require Boyang to switch training base, which won't happen since Boyang obviously want to stay with Xu and Fu. Lori and others may be able to help him sometimes, but not long term, especially if he goes back to train in Harbin instead of Beijing.

3. Why some people feel disappointed in him.

In this thread I read opinions that it's Boyang's life, he has his own values & priorities, and he doesn't owe fans anything. Well, these are true to some degrees, but not entirely.

Unlike skaters who pay for their own training or receives sponsoring from the private sector, Boyang is a nationally funded full time athlete (he’s already graduated from a college for athletes). His training fees (reportedly around 2 million yuan per skater per year) comes from tax money. So people would think it’s his responsibility, not only to himself but also to the country, to work hard and get the best result possible. Giving up such an opportunity for personal reasons is like desolating responsibility. If it’s not just personal reasons, but he believes he won’t be better off in TCC, then they think it’s an unwise judgement.

My opinion

Like people said many times in this thread, we can’t actually “know” what’s best for him. But then any discussion would be moot if we stick to that.

From the information we fans have now, TCC is superior to his old coaches in many ways. Going to TCC is taking risks, the result of which could be better or worse than before. However, not going, imo, means the upper limit of what’s possible for him just fell lower. I’ll still expect him to grow and improve, but not as much as I would expect if he went to TCC."

I like Kolyada a lot. He can pull off both circusy silliness and classical. His SP last season was a nice contrast to his other programs, and the step sequence was great. Unfortunately, that pursuit of 4Lz ruins the impression a little.

R488. Interesting about Boyang. In a way I hope this is true. I would rather the decision of not going to TCC be Boyangs choice and not the Chinese Fed. R482. You can't get much from Twitter on any skater. I follow mostly Hanyu accounts there and it's mostly photos I've seen a. Million times or just fangirling tweets lol. Maybe because it's off season. I love this board and for a board that doesn't have a moderator you all know how to conduct yourselves well. Of course there are disagreements but not to the point of name calling. I've only seen that from one poster so that is good.

R487: Oh man, you're right. I just realized I've been understanding the word "gravitas" wrong all this time. I thought it simply meant commanding/attention grabbing but I didn't know it meant in a solemn and serious way. In that case maybe you're not completely off, based on your understanding of the term, when Kolyada skates to more serious pieces. Although, even with this new realization in place, when Hanyu actually does gravitas, I actually do think Hanyu does it better than Kolyada, because when he does it, it somehow doesn't just feel contained within the program. When he does it, it goes beyond that and it's majesty, and that's not something most other skaters, both in the past and present, no matter how talented and skilled, were/are able to exude.

R488: It's really too bad about Jin. If it was indeed his call, then I hope he doesn't regret this decision somewhere down the line. I get that moving training bases may not be the answer for everyone. I sure hope that's the case for him. Perhaps he'll consult foreign coaches and specialists from time to time, the way Uno does.

LOMBARDIA TROPHY ENTRIES

MEN

1 Jiri BELOHRADSKY CZE 1

2 Petr KOTLARIK CZE 1

3 Daniel Albert NAURITS EST 2

4 Luc ECONOMIDES FRA 3

5 Adrien TESSON FRA 3

6 Philip WARREN FRA 3

7 Harry MATTICK GBR 4

8 Matteo RIZZO ITA 5

9 Kazuki TOMONO JPN 6

10 Shoma UNO JPN 6

11 Igor REZNICHENKO POL 7

12 Jaeseok KYEONG KOR 8

13 June Hyoung LEE KOR 8

14 Dmitri ALIEV RUS 9

15 Matthew SAMUELS RSA 10

16 Timothy DOLENSKY USA 11

LADIES

1 Michaela Lucie HANZLIKOVA CZE 1

2 Klara STEPANOVA CZE 1

3 Eva Lotta KIIBUS EST 2

4 Kristina SHKULETA-GROMOVA EST 2

5 Viveca LINDFORS FIN 3

6 Sofia SULA FIN 3

7 Sandra RAMOND FRA 4

8 Lea SERNA FRA 4

9 Nathalie WEINZIERL GER 5

10 Fruzsina MEDGYESI HUN 6

11 Ivett TOTH HUN 6

12 Sara CONTI ITA 7

13 Micol CRISTINI ITA 7

14 Chenny PAOLUCCI ITA 7

15 Kaori SAKAMOTO JPN 8

16 Mako YAMASHITA JPN 8

17 Veronika SHEVELEVA KAZ 9

18 Elzbieta KROPA LTU 10

19 Greta MORKYTE LTU 10

20 Alisson Krystle PERTICHETO PHI 11

21 Boyoung KIM KOR 12

22 Antonina DUBININA SRB 13

23 Valentina MATOS ESP 14

24 Anita ÖSTLUND SWE 15

25 Zahra LARI UAE 16

26 Amber GLENN USA 17

PAIRS

1 Lana PETRANOVIC / Antonio SOUZA-KORDEIRU CRO 1

2 Coline KERIVEN / Antoine PIERRE FRA 2

3 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 3

4 Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI ITA 3

5 Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS 4

6 Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT RUS 4

7 Laura BARQUERO / Aritz MAESTU ESP 5

8 Nica DIGERNESS / Danny NEUDECKER USA 6

ICE DANCE

1 Katerina BUNINA / German FROLOV EST 1

2 Juulia TURKKILA / Matthias VERSLUIS FIN 2

3 Julia WAGRET / Pierre SOUQUET FRA 3

4 Robynne TWEEDALE / Joseph BUCKLAND GBR 4

5 Chiara CALDERONE / Pietro PAPETTI ITA 5

6 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI ITA 5

7 Carolina MOSCHENI / Andrea FABBRI ITA 5

8 Jasmine TESSARI / Francesco FIORETTI ITA 5

9 Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN ESP 6

10 Victoria MANNI / Carlo ROETHLISBERGER SUI 7

11 Rachel PARSONS / Michael PARSONS USA 8

I can't be the only one who thinks it's not a coincidence if Goldenskate is having all these money issues so shortly after driving out almost all of Hanyu fans out with their terrible handling in 2018?

I wonder if they did it because they wanted less bandwidth to be used and it was the most active fan base or if the lessened traffic brought in less ad revenues. Anyway, it's no surprise they didn't reach their goal with the fundraising campaign they did a few months ago. Many posters are pissed at the admin and mods for something or other and despise the idea of paying them.

R493 here, I meant the terrible handling in 2017 during the fanfest debacle and several thread purges, not 2018

[quote] Despite some over-moderation (only at times), I loved Television Without Pity, and I feel like there isn't any other place left that is as interesting as it was - except THIS place, which is even better in some ways. I feel like message boards are all dying in the Twitter/texting age.

TWOP was awesome but it also had plenty of rules. I enjoy GS and FSU for all-included boards. I will never abandon discussion boards because I love long discussions in general, love following comps in the K&C areas, and I love organized threads where I can find what I'm looking for. GS is fine as long as you're not trying to bash skaters in the Fanfest threads, or are a preteen who only wants to ship, or you think everything is boring if there's no manufactured drama. If you want to be critical a la TWOP, just stay out of the Fan threads.

R493 I don't think the timing of GS's money issues was a coincidence either. The woman who owns that site is terrible. I was never banned from there but some great posters were and I think the overall quality of commentary there has definitely declined. I prefer FSU because their moderators are much less heavy handed.

I enjoyed Planet Hanyu at first but eventually they became way too heavy handed with the moderating too--just like the moderators at GS they were fleeing from. Very disappointing. When any criticism of a skater is immediately called out as "bashing" that skater--I have no patience for that.

Overall, I much prefer this site for FS discussions.

How did GS piss off Hanyu fans in 2017?

r491 Consulting won't make judges raise his PCS significantly even if he improves, if the coaches' names next to his remain the same.

r497

fuckyeahdearlybeloved.tumblr.com/post/160095865956/another-day-in-gs-land

fuckyeahdearlybeloved.tumblr.com/post/160152704426/another-day-in-gs-land-follow-up

oh well, I see hotlinking is the way. Part 1

Part 2

R499 Thanks for that. What a puerile bunch.

Hanyu needs to come out with his programs stat because his fans are getting into fisticuffs over a dish soap cm right now, according to my twitter timeline.

Since I was there when it happened, yup I'm a fangurl, I'll add to the Tumblr story, that the Hanyu fan thread, which was back then the main gathering place for international Hanyu fans, and over 7000 pages long, was not just closed, it was deleted. Poof, gone. Fans, already pissed over the banning of their most popular posters, over mass deletion of posts, over the stupid mod posts were like. What, what, you DELETED all that content? Are you fucking kidding us? At that point the fans who haven't been banned started sharing a link to some obscure hanyu website somebody created for fun as a place to talk about what now. Meanwhile, the GS admins said that the fan thread hadn't been deleted but just taken out for maintenance because it was too large to manage and it will be back. Hanyu fans called bullshit and it was clear that the situation had escalated beyond repair. It was decided a proper fansite was needed. It turned out there were quite a few programming-savvy fans who knew how to go about setting up a website, and all was needed was money to start it up. In one day gathered enough to start up Planet Hanyu, and they tweaked it up in the next few months.

The most impressive thing is that the video debacle was on April 27th or 28th, and Planet Hanyu got up and running on April 30th. Yeah, all that shit went down within 3 days.

One funny anecdote to add: in the video and the world record debacle, after the thread was deleted then brought back, one of the video creators got suspended. One of the admins asked the suspended creator if she ccould create this type of analysis video for other skaters.

There's always another side to a story and Hanyu fans are not always right.

R498 Really? I figured if it worked for Uno....I mean it ain't like his coaches have a ton of clout on the international circuit either but look at where they got him anyway. I mean, sure he seems to have one of the stronger performance skills, skates to the tune of the judges, appears in tons of competitions and lands his jumps quite consistently but surely those weren't all he needed for them to overlook his glaring flaws?

Well, even if simply consulting won't do wonders for him Polital Clout Score-wise, he might at least still be able to jmprove skating skill and expression wise. As much fun as he is to watch, his performance and some of his basics still need a lot of polish, I feel. And if he improves those, maybe he's still got a chance because even as he is now and with his Fed and coaches' lack of clout, his tech still got him pretty far achievement-wise. Plus in Beijing, he's got the home advantage.

R507 Uno's got JSF politicking for him. It has nothing to do with the coaches he consults with. It's not even clear from the announcement the extent to which Boyang himself will participate in Brian's seminars.

r506 The other side of the story is in the screencaps of the Tumblr posts I linked.

R503. Is this normal for Hanyu to wait this long to tell us his program music? My Twitter timeline is full of the same pictures I've seen a trillion times.

To change the topic somewhat, Lombardia Trophy seems to have a pretty good line-up, especially in Men. Uno, Aliev, Tomono, Rizzo. It's be interesting to see the new system applied to the top guys.cI wish USA would stand somebody higher up, Krasnozhon at least.

If they manage to get Philippe Meriguet at Lombardia on the panel we will see a river of +5 for Shoma

r512 If he's so valuable, maybe they should save him for a more prominent event, lol. Uno seems to have this one in the bag.

Salt Lake City is the same week as Lombardia. US men will likely be there. Deadline for entries was the same as Lombardia. So I expect list of entries to be released soon

Boyang should do a challenger, he could use world standing points.

R508: Yeah and JSF has that much clout? I mean, I don't think they very actively promoted Hanyu but that guy is a self-engineered skating anomaly (that I think even the judges and ISU recognized pretty early on) so it never real works to factor him into this side of skating, but other than Uno, even with some of their more successful skaters in the past, they have never gotten as far and as fast with them as they as they did with Uno.

They've got some present skaters that get away with stuff but they're all within...um..."reasonable" means. Uno, however, has been getting away on a more egregrious scale.

For past skaters, Asada had been known as having strong tech and some nice performance skills but I don't think she had ever been particularly gifted in PCS and GOEs as Uno was, even by the standards of that time, and while Takahashi built enough of a rep to got him some pretty solid PCS scoring, his low tech held him back. For Asada, they were particularly harsh with her in her last few competitive years, calling out all her problems, because she did have quite a few of them despite her strength. As little as I think Uno deserves his stratospheric scores, I really don't want to see him being herded down that direction as well.

R496: I'd cut PH some slack there...I've seen some carefully worded constructive criticism over there on other skaters as well as Hanyu so it really depends on how...uh...politically correct you are. I mean the place is a safe haven for them to gush mostly without getting the eyeroll treatment (kinda like this thread was, tbh) so even if the fluff can get a bit cloying there at times, their rules aren't all that unreasonable. Their mods and admins at least, aren't power trippers who favor one member over another. But even for GS, I'd cut some slack, as they also seem to be an official skating news outlet and therefore have certain interests (their own) they need to protect, like all other big and established forums. FSU, although less moderated, seems to already be established as an ice-dance and NA-centric community. And maybe that's why it can be more relaxed. I dunno.

Anyway, if we want to be less policed and restrained in our words, well there's always places like this we can come to. I mean not even this place is for everyone. I've noticed some of the content here is enough to act as 'moderation' in their own right to drive others with more...er...discerning tastes away. I don't think there's ever going to be one-size-fits-all when it comes to to places for discussions without it turning really messy. One man's meat is another's poison, after all. No innuendoes meant. As long as there's a place for everyone, I think I can be good with that.

r514 Ah, that explains it.

R510 In 2017, media day was in early August (8/9-10 or thereabouts), likely because 1) he recycled his programs; 2) he wasn't injured; 3) Brian said he was pretty much ready for Olys by July, so they were prepared. To compare, in 2016, when Hanyu was recovering from injury, media day was September 13, where he unveiled LGC and H&L. Given that it's likely he'll come out with two new programs this year and he's recovering from injury and all the ice shows this summer, I think it's going to be on the later side, though I've seen some predictions that it might drop early this week.

R518. Thank you! I would love for it to be this week but probably not until September. I guess I will have to keep looking at the same photos for another 2-3 weeks lol

R519 Yikes! I hope it won't be that late. He has ACI September 20-22 and every year since 2013 (besides 2016) he's announced it in August, so when I say later, I was hoping later in August.

R458 No, "2000 Days" wasn't published in English and as you presumably know the pages of the book aren't numbered. If I start counting from the page with the collage (the 2nd page after the cover) the passage about the retirement press conference is on the bottom of page 21 (left to the picture of Takahashi wearing blue glasses). The statement about Hanyu can be found on the bottom of page 103, the 2nd page of the chapter titled "2014年2月" (there's an overhead shot of Takahashi performing "Primavera Portena" during the Sochi gala). An account of his bad physical and mental condition and resulting tearful bag throwing can be found on page 104 next to the caption "チグハグに疲れた".

I didn't question that Watanabe and him spoke about some of these episodes publicly. I know they did. I said in my opinion it speaks in Takahashi's favour that he was so open about the whole affair. Then again imo his "outbursts" as reported weren't all that horrible. I still respect the backbone he showed.

No need to go to the trouble of putting everything together (thanks for offering though), I'm familiar with most sources of the points that were brought up apart from his alleged remark about Oda's injury in Boomsports. Do you happen to have a link or scan? (I have a suspicion what you might be referring to, but that would once again have a very different gist from the outline you gave, so I might be thinking of a different interview.) Beyond that I'm only interested in links to recent statements that he doesn't want his spotlight taken away outside of skating related matters (apologies if I overlooked them in case they were provided before).

I'm just guessing here, but did you mean the whole friendly rivalry thing the skaters of Takahashi's generation had going on? I recall him saying a couple of times he'd try his hardest not to be outshone by the girls (primarily meaning Ando and later Asada). When he started winning in seniors his dream was to leave a significant mark and to contribute to bringing men's skating in Japan up to the popularity level of the ladies' discipline and he therefore saw Mao and Miki simultaneously as friends and rivals he needed to catch up to or to "beat" in order to achieve that. It's a common thing you'll get to hear from Japanese skaters. Tomono even took it a step further when he just admitted on TV he rather needs to see Takahashi as an enemy than someone he admires in order to be able to challenge him this upcoming season. Even one of Takahashi's closest friends, Suzuki Akiko, admitted she'd feel beaten and get jealous of him after a great performance or result of his and feel motivated to best him. And she wasn't even in any sort of direct competition with him. Regarding someone as a rival doesn't mean you can't be friendly with and encourage each other at the same time. I'm under the impression whenever any of them said sth. along those lines it was in an amicable, not too seriously way. I never got a vibe of pettiness or resentment towards each other from any of them. Takahashi's whole generation of skaters was and still seems to be quite close according to multiple first-hand quotes.

R251 correction: "in an amicable, not too serious way"

R420. Well we have three weeks left in August. Hopefully soon. I wonder if he will do something classical. I really think that music suits him so well. I really don't want something like lgc again.

R523: Wow, I'm the opposite. I thought LGC was awesome and his interpretation was A+. I mean I didn't think it was right off the bat but after I came around, it's like the best damn thing ever.

While I'm okay with classical if the piece is suitable and isn't overly slow in tempo and preferably with a strong and clear melodic line, a changeup between a classical program and a non-classical one sounds more appealing than all classical programs because to me, that would, frankly, be boring, even if performed by Hanyu.

I'm with r524, the Prince SP was Hanyu's best SP, one of the best choreographed programs I've ever seen (though to be fair, so is his Chopin), the spins and step seq being a jaw-dropping perfection, proving Buttle is a genius and goes with Hanyu like chocolate and peanut butter. Gimme a repetition of that anytime.

Don't get me wrong I thought Hanyu showed so much in Lgc (and I'm not talking about the tight pants lol) it might be because he never performed it clean. If he did I don't recall. He can't do lgc again. So if he wanted to do something like that again I was thinking Michael Jackson? But i would love to see a classical in at least one of the programs

Objectively, LGC might have been an incredible, intricately choreographed program blah blah blah, but it wasn't a memorable program for me. I remember some parts - like, oh yes, that's the camel spin where the satiny fabric of the pants clings onto every muscle of his fine ass and we can see its perfect peachy outline; there's that slide and crotch offering, is it for me?; and that's where he bends over for that A spin just to fuck with my sanity. I don't know, did he do any jumps? Like I said, I don't really remember much about that program.

R527: To each their own I guess. I remember almost everything about it, the least of which is his outfit and what it blatantly shows off, and it didn't need more than one season to firmly emblazon itself behind my eyelids and inside and head. His slinky yet masculine performance is something that really asserts the program to the audience. The ones it reached anyway.

Of all his senior programs, of which there aren't terribly many given his penchant to recycle his SP at least twice, I don't remember much of Zigeunerweisen, though that's not to say it's the least memorable. The music just doesn't do it for me. Costume's cute, though. Haha. But it's about the only thing I can firmly recall about it.

R521 Thank you. I’m already working on finding links and sources so that everyone here can access them. We’re almost at the end of this thread, so I think it would be better if I post it in the next thread.

Do you read Japanese? I searched for the quote about Hanyu you posted in English (R457 see below) and found it on an Italian message board. It appears to be a fan translation by a “ice-kingfisher” on tumblr, but their tumblr page is gone unfortunately. I compared the translation with the original passage and it’s missing three sentences between the first and last sentences you quoted. (He does talk about children looking up to Hanyu but what follows the “because” is something else.) I was wondering if you chose to omit them for some reason or if you were not aware that the translator chose not to include them.

[quote]"Ignoring my personal feelings, I think it’s a very good thing that Yuzuru won the gold medal. [bold]Because[/bold] of his gold medal, there will be more children who will say they want to be like Hanyu-kun, and it was good that it was Yuzuru, whom everyone expected to be the next one, won it, and I also think it will be exciting to see his future. He’ll be leading from now."

It’s Obon right now so media day shouldn’t be this week.

r527 It had a very nice 4S-3T combo and the absolutely best 3A. The whole lead-up to the 3A went great with music and the exit rocked and he immediately launched himself into a great spin. The step seq has amazing energy and, again, goes awesome with the music, all of it not just the knee slide, and the final spin is the best choreographed-to-the-music spin I've ever seen, each of the leg taps of the butterfly entry corresponds to drum hits, the changes in position are emphesized by slight speeding up of the music. The first spin is no slouch either, with the hand throw to emphasize the shout.

Not that I'm trying to convince you, but here, watch! (lol)

I didn't know what the hell they were trying to accomplish with LGC at first, but now I really appreciate it. Hanyu is probably the only guy with the right combo of personality, unselfconscious flair, and technical ability to be able to pull it off. He needed another season to really settle into it, though.

R530 Thank you for sharing that video. I can see why many like the program. I feel his skating is on point with the music. He is so into the music as well. I thought I saw him singing there for a second but could be wrong lol

I went ahead and made another thread. This one might go soon once yuzu tells us his programs for the season.

r531 You know who I think could pull it off in a similar way to Yuzu? If he suddenly could land his jumps, that is? Don't laugh, but Daniel Samohin. He can do campy like nobody's business. Actually, I think personality-wise, Boyang could pull it off, and Javier. Perhaps not exactly like Yuzu, but it would suit them too. But I don't think they could pull off the choreo, in its exact shape, even Javi (jump exits, spins). That campy shit is super-difficult.

Kurt Browning once said that choreographing for Yuzuru was like playing a video game - that he could do virtualy ANYthing and it's almost harder than others because you have too many options to choose from.

I love to listen to Kurt. He also said once that the skating gods decided to drop the perfect jumps from heaven and they chose Yuzuru to catch them -- and Carol Whatsit said they had just watched the best short of the season (forget the comp) and Kurt said, "Of eternity!"

I do realize he's a bit given to hyperbole but he's almost as fun as those Italians to listen to - he just lets it rip.

I saw Yuzuru discussing that R&J2 outfit with the huge gemstones on one sleeve (that Weir designed - that he won gold in Sochi in) - and he said half of the top was supposed to be Romeo and the other half Juliet.

Kurt Browning said the judges would never let someone wearing that top win. Well, it wasn't a pretty win, but it was win (and he was pretty winning it).

R534 I was thinking about Boyang, if he were a little older and a whole lot more polished. He's got some camp in his soul for sure. Javi has charisma but he's just so damn straight (or is determined to be so).....I haven't seen much of Samohin's skating so re: him I couldn't say.

R529 Please do. It’ll be appreciated.

Those lines weren’t omitted for a reason on my part. I can manage rough translations since my own Japanese skills aren’t the most advanced. For back-up I checked ice-king-fisher’s translations with a neutral native speaker a while back and they confirmed that the translated parts capture the gist correctly. Of course you’ll always have to keep in mind that you'll get deviations of varying degrees from different translations. As far as I can make sense of the omitted part myself I didn’t find anything that would’ve been left out for any identifyable reasons. From what I can tell he remarked that there were never won medals by male Japanese skaters at two consecutive Olympics before and that he regretted he didn’t manage to get another bronze medal himself? (Will check back at a later point with my native speaking source to correct potential inaccuracies.)

R535. Bless Kurt Browning. He's so right on Hanyu. I have never seen a skater like him before and i have watched skating for some time. This guy is special and I don't think we will see another like him in our life times Are the judges still as homophobic as the way they were when Weir skated? Sometimes I wonder if they don't award Hanyu the score he deserves ibecause of his costumes. Maybe they think of Weir.

Was Weir ever tremendously underscored on international stage? He was before my interest in FS so I know his skating mostly from YouTube, and the B.ESP commentators were like, "a genius, a troubled one, but undoubtedly a genius".

I think Hanyu's beyond that perception now. Whatever judges think personally about his style, there's no doubt that he's been good for the popularity of the sport, so subconsciously they won't mark him down. And, well, Weir paved the way, Lambiel and Buttle got to be World Champions, so perhaps the judges perceptions changed too. 97 PCS for a program as subdued as his 2017 LP, with that costume, says that the judges are fine with it. I think that when Hanyu gets underscored, it's not because of his style but because they want someone new and preferably American.

R640. As a Weir fan I believe he was underscored. I wouldn't say tremendously. I am bias when it comes to Johnny. So much was said about him from announcers and other skaters that it wouldn't surprise me if the judges underscored him for his costumes.

You could be right that Hanyu is underscored because they want an American to win. I think of Nathan Chen and how ridiculously he was overscored at the Olympics on the free skate. Yeah he did 6 quads but there was nothing else.

R538 Thank you for your honesty. The omission was not a stylistic choice and I don’t understand why the translator chose to leave out most of that paragraph, either. Here is the original quote, which is comprised of two paragraphs. I’ve bolded the part that was omitted from the translation:

[quote]一個人の感情を無視したら、結弦が金メダルを獲れたのはすごいよかったと思う。[bold]日本男子フィギュアで２大会連続してメダル獲ったことなんてないから。本当は自分が銅でもいいから連続は欲しかった。個人的には同じくらい悔しさはあるけど。[/bold]

[quote]でも彼の金メダルで羽生君みたいになりたいと言う子が増えるだろうし、[italic]しかも皆が次はコイツだ、という結弦が獲ったのはやっぱりよかったし、[/italic]これからが楽しみだと思う。これからは彼が引っ張っていくだろう。

This is how I would translate the original quote (although Takahashi’s language is more casual):

[quote]“My personal feelings aside, it’s great that Yuzuru won the gold medal, [bold]because the Japanese men had never medaled at two consecutive Olympics before. To be honest, I wish I could’ve medaled again, even if I only got another bronze. Personally, I regret that just as much.[/bold]

[quote]But with his gold medal, I’m sure there’ll be more kids who’ll say they want to be like Hanyu and [italic]it’s good that that guy that everyone said would be the next top skater, Yuzuru, won,[/italic] and I think we can look forward to his future. He’ll be leading the men from now on.”

Takahashi’s language is very informal, but he refers to Hanyu as コイツ which I translated as “that guy,” but it’s a rougher word. It’s alright if you’re talking about your close friends, but it’s a somewhat condescending term when referring to someone else, and you would never use it for someone above you. I can’t think of a proper English equivalent, but this page explains the meaning well: www . guidetojapanese .org/blog/2006/06/24/%E3%82%84%E3%81%A4/ That part (“it’s good that that guy that everyone said would win won”) has actually been pointed out as indication that Takahashi’s feelings about Hanyu are somewhat bitter and it’s not the first time he’s referred to Hanyu as コイツ, which is why I found your choice interesting. I think Takahashi just uses that kind of language and is trying to talk to his audience as if he's talking to a friend, but I would still describe these two paragraphs as more conciliatory with a little begrudging than completely supportive of Hanyu.

I think the rest of the passage is also interesting, especially with his comeback, because it illustrates his state of mind at the time:

[quote]世代交代をあからさまに説明された感はある。でも、僕が6位なのに、思ったおりメディアで取り上げてくれたのは嬉しかった。それで救われた。もしこれでダメだ、と判断ばかり書かれたらもっと凹んでると思う…。

[quote]It feels like I’m being bluntly told that we’ve transitioned to the next generation. But even though I was 6th place, the media gave me more attention than I expected and that made me happy. It saved me. If they’d written that I didn’t do enough and just criticized me, I think I’d be even more depressed…

[quote]もう限界。自分の変革期だと捉えてる。ずっと限界を感じてきたけど、もう限界。

[quote]I can’t do this anymore. I’ve accepted it’s time for revolution. I’ve been feeling like I’ve reached my limit for a long time now. But I can’t take it anymore.

To me, it sounds like he's talking about more than just the physical aspect of skating competitively, although I think it's deliberately left open to interpretation.

The weird hyphens were added by datalounge. Just ignore them. Sorry.

R542 Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the close reading and learning all of this, but is it to anyone's surprise that Dai throws shit at people when he's feeling less than fab, is a famewhore and says bitter bitchy things about the man who surpassed him?

Source: he's a gay figure skater; also, Blades of Glory.

R530 No need to convince me! I think that program is a masterpiece. All kidding aside, I did find the pants to be distracting - I think the program works well when you think of it as fun and campy, but with the pants tailored so tight, people understandably thought it was meant to be sexy, and I don't think overt sexuality is Hanyu's schtick.

[Quote]...I don't think overt sexuality is Hanyu's schtick. R545[/quote]

You're right, it's not. But in LGC, he somehow managed to exude it anyway in spades and I don't think it's just because of the costume. It enhanced everything sure but it's really the essence of the performance itself, the way in which he embodied the music, there's something very natural and non-deliberate, almost effortless and even accidental, perhaps, in how he pulled it off. It's basically what r531 said. And also like what r534 mentioned, if it were anybody else, you'd likely be cringing but Hanyu simply nails it and then sells it like no other.

r545 Heh, purple spandex straight out of 70s is a definition of campy to me, not sexy and tbh I think this is what he was going for. If he were going for sexy, he'd have dressed more like Parisian Walkways.

R547: I thought it was campy too and never thought that concept and sexy can go hand-in-hand but he sure as hell changed my mind. I Stu think it works only for him, though.

Granted, when I was first exposed to program and the...wrapping...it came in, I wasn't immediately sold. But it's also to his credit I wasn't cringing in second-hand embarrassment either when--as I only realized later--that the whole thing was the exact sort of thing that would make me react that way because like, who can ever out-Prince Prince? Who would even want to? But for some reason, when he came out all in white, and then purple, all I was thinking was, "What's that kid trying to prove now?" And later found that what he proved was that that someone actually [I]could. On skates no less. Huh. I'm really not sure which is more impressive, his back-to-back Olympic win that he managed while half-lame, or that.

Speaking of half-lame, although a shame, it's probably just as well that he didn't bring the program to the Olympics. Imagine skating to [i]that half-lame. Don't think even he would've been able to manage that.

(PW doesn't strike me as the same sort of sexy. I mean it is, but a much milder form of it. Maybe if he does it now, it'd be more amped up but it still doesn't hold a candle to LGC, imo. But like I said, it's a different sort of sexy.)

r548 That costume was really something else. I was pretty sure Hanyu couldn't surprise me anymore costume-wise, his aesthetic was clear, the Juliet, the Phantom, Chopin. His Swan a and this year's exhibition all fit that aesthetic, and ,y reaction was, "lol, of course, bless him" but I wasn't surprised. That white/purple thing? "Wait what, seriously? What IS he wearing?" Good times.

Yeah, the Prince program at the Olympics would have been epic.

Now, here's a question: from this season men can wear tights. What does it mean? If they couldn't earlier, how did Hanyu's pants or especially Max Aaron's pants in most his programs didn't violate rules? Or they did, just remained unacknowledged and ISU decided it's time to officially retire the rule?

Which male skater had "sexy" as a shtick? I remember Javier's Black Betty, and his Spanish programs could be construed this way. Plushenko? He was doing Tangoes all the time. Any others? Any current ones?

Yes, the tights rule wasn't really enforced by judges. Some pants like Guarise last season were definitely no trousers and no judge called the violation

Maybe some judges called it to Aaron in the past but not enough to get -1. To get the deduction majority of the panel (judges+referee) needs to call it. You can see at the bottom of the scores in the protocols how many called it. This season they also show who calls the penalities.

Actually I rechecked you see who calls for a deduction only if the deduction has been applied

Thanks r552. It's good they retired the rule. Those leg muscles are worth exposing. Besides, guys with a figure like Max Aaron would have looked hella blockier. And in Pairs, she the woman wears just tights sometimes, it looks weird when the man has looser pants.

*if the woman

The sleeves rule for men was retired 2 seasons ago and at first a judge called for a deduction to Rippon. allegedly because he/she didn't notice the rule change.

R549: I think tights are generally pants that are hugging all the way through from thigh to ankle aka Shakespearean costumes and male ballet dancers. They're like...leggings? Hanyu's LGC bottoms weren't actually those. Far from it. He filled out the thigh part because, well, he has big muscly thighs, but they remain loose going downwards. I think what he wore wasn't so different from what male figure skaters were wearing back in the 80s. He just managed to pull off the look better because of his body shape and insane proportions.

In fact, those white and purple bottoms are also essentially not too different from the black velvety bottoms he usually sports in his more delicately-designed costumes. The purple ones, especially, have a gradient effect which makes the corded muscles on thighs and bum look more pronounced but I think that's it. So he didn't get away with anything because there was nothing to get away with.

Hanyu had both a white and purple costume for lgc. I loved the white one. I always think he looks beautiful in white. I wasn't following him back then but did he ditch the white for the purple? If so why?

R557 Cos he apparently got told he looks like a disembodied head, hands and vest floating eerily on the ice. Which is a shame considering, you know, the amount of content and intricate details LGC has and the fact that that insanely tapered waist that flares out into those toned hips and muscled thighs are supposed to be highlighted to...uhhh...enhance the image of the music.......

Also, it's apparently harder to hide underlines that are viewed as unsavory. I have no idea why. They are viewed as unsavory, that is.

Here is a photo of him in the white costume. I don't know if this is a bad shot but his face looks washed out. Vampire Hanyu. I can see why they went purple.

Lambiel posted a new photo on instagram. Very handsome.

A troika of 00 skating hotness...too bad about Verner and his homophobia...

[quote]Which male skater had "sexy" as a shtick?

I see only one obvious answer. The haters may contend that he's only skater adjacent, but let's not be narrow minded here, surely the overwhelming sexiness makes up for the lack of skating.

R560 Here's Deniss from the same interview.

A couple more brothers and they could be the Kardashians of Japan, R562. That's hilarious.

Verner is not homophobic, at least not now. Maybe when he was young and immature. He's very good friends with Johnny.

This is my favorite picture of Lambiel. So slutty!

R563. Wow. They both look really beautiful!

And vampire Hanyu can bite my neck anytime. : )

I think Verner has got over his homophobia, this was his birthday greeting to Johnny last year:

R542 Why wouldn't I be honest? Ain't got nothing to hide. ;) As stated, it wasn’t my choice of words – I'm always checking translations (in this case ice-king-fisher's) with a native speaker, who isn’t interested in figure skating, doesn’t really know anything about either Takahashi or Hanyu and who I therefore consider impartial. My own Japanese suffices to get the general idea and context, but not always the subtleties. I don’t fully trust either fan translations, nor those done by antis of one or the other, because they tend to be equally biased.

I’m not under the impression Takahashi left that much open to interpretation. A large portion of "2000 Days" consists of accounts of his bad physical [bold]and[/bold] psychological shape particularly during the last two seasons of his competitive career. To me what he described sounded like classical symptoms of mental exhaustion induced by having to deal with a considerable amount of external pressure, waning motivation and self-doubt on top of pretty severe, painful physical issues and resulting constant stress during that time.

That said, the aforementioned circumstances date almost four years back and have nothing to do with his current situation, so I can't see what kind of connection to his comeback you’re implying. Maybe you can elaborate?

In the lead-up to the Olympics and directly after the competition a few Japanese journalists were disrespectful and downright nasty towards Takahashi, rubbing the (impending) generation change in his face, implicitly urging him to admit that he was done when he was at his most vulnerable or less delicately expressed: they were complete and utter jerks towards him. That’s the backdrop those last two sections you quoted need to be evaluated against. I for one am feeling sympathy with his relief that the media at large treated him kindly enough and didn't completely throw him aside after his result in Sochi.

It's possible he felt bitter towards or jealous of Hanyu. However we can’t mind-read or claim to be even remotely able to analyse someone's intentions and feelings when none of us knows them personally. What’s explicitly stated is all we have to base our judgement on. Wether Takahashi's language reveals his attitude I’m personally undecided about, because he's not the most eloquent speaker/writer and his word choices often tend to be quite casual or inappropriately informal, not only in regards to Hanyu. Others might judge him on that basis. Those are consequences he has to live with. Imo if he had general bitchy tendencies he very likely wouldn’t be this close with nearly all of his other teammates and they wouldn’t speak as highly of him as a friend and of his personality in general as they do. [bold]If[/bold] there are any animosities between Hanyu and him, there’s no way of knowing if there ever was an altercation or wether any of them has said or done stuff outside the public eye, that might have pissed the other off. It’s entirely up to speculation. I believe no one is a perfect saint and there's always more than one side to every story.

A general observation, not directed at anyone specific here: What I’ve noticed is that there’s quite a number of Hanyu fans, who have a tendency to view almost everything exclusively through the Hanyu lens without acknowledging that the persons he competes against have their own sets of feelings, needs and worries and that not everything they say or do is related to him. (Imo that also applies to the speculations about the timing of Takahashi's press conference. Alternative explanation: Takahashi, who as stated didn't even want to hold a conference to begin with, wasn't involved in the scheduling at all and the date, which happened to be the first official day of the new skating season, was very likely set by his manager Ihara. Boring but logical.)

R561 I don't remember, what did Verner do to make him homophobic? I only remember some interview a long time ago when asked whether he was gay, he responded something to the effect of, "no, I'm normal." But that was translated and a long time ago so I'd cut him some slack. I mean, Joubert's the one who sued Miss France for calling him homo...

Kevin Van Der Perren was a homophobic idiot IIRC complaining he was underscored compered to feminine skaters

R571 I was talking about just the guys in R561 's picture, but if you want to expand to all of FS, phew, that list is going to be endless with the Christian fundies, self-hating gays and all of Skate Canada (just to name a few).

R571 Do you mean this Kevin Van Der Perren?

KVDP in 2010 " Je sais que j'aurais pu obtenir plus de points en patinant de manière plus féminine. Mais je ne peux pas et ne le ferai jamais. Je suis qui je suis et cela ne changera jamais."

R574 Oh dear, I'm glad he took a stand, never changed and faded into obscurity then.

I think Hanyu's perfect little buttocks looked delicious in both the white and the purple Prince outfits. And you know he loved the buzz those pants created. I can recall a hilarious conversation on GS with posters politely trying to figure out exactly what he was wearing under those "sinful" pants.

Not gonna lie. This picture of Hanyu's ass has sometimes been my backcounter 3a.

I had Kevin van der Perren pegged as one of the gay folk. Was I wrong?

For every photo of Weir or Hanyu in the costume debate, there should be 3 pics of KvdP.

R578 I think he's married to an aggressively unattractive British figure skater.

Jenna McSomething

r459 Well, at least, for a straight guy, he wasn't shy about havi g some eye-searing outfits, lol. But tbh that's the only thing I remember about him, not the skating. Have to give it Jorik, he may not be a top contender, but I like watching hikm skate.

r566 LOL

R582 I especially liked that his shirt matched the colors of the Harry Potter book. People always say he never officially came out, but that picture is definitely Lambiel's gay quinceañera.

R576. I thought he was wearing thong. lol

r569 Thanks for the perspective. I do feel folks here go waaay overboard with condemning Takahashi.

r584 He was. There were pics where you could see it somewhere in this thread.

A dance belt and a see through costume?? Not dignified! The rules are clear. A deduction must be applied

(backstory: at 1989 Euros Alexander Fadeev wore a dance belt under a white costume. He won but the the British judge Vanessa Riley scored him lower than everybody else even if she ranked him first. When asked on British TV to explain it, she said that live at the rink the effect of the white costume was totally see through. And she thought it was not dignified and therefore she applied a -0.2 on her score)

R586 You had me scrambling for google. Vanessa was right, I can totally see the dance belt, so unbecoming of the sport!

Here's Vanessa discussing her disapproval of Fadeev's transparent lower half at 3:37

r587 I don't think I've ever stared at a guy's clothed ass so intensely for so long, and considering this is DL it's saying something, but I still can't see it.

R589 I'm gonna help you out here. Remember, a dance belt looks like a thong bikini. Start at :12 - you can clearly see the outlines of the bikini from the front. When he turns, you can see the thong.

Vanessa disliked Surya Bonaly and loved Yuka Sato

r590 I got it! For some reason I was looking for a darker shade, not whiter.

R569 I'm sympathetic to Dai and glad you provided some context, but I think you oversold on your original contention that the stories about Dai on this thread were misconstrued or planted by some troll bent on maligning his name. Whether he was in a bad place or was ineloquent or inadvertent, it's not like he didn't do or say quesitonable things. So people will judge, even if some judge too harshly.

I find this hilarious. Massimo Scali has the most lascivious gaze.

I've stated here that I don't care for takahashi. I am not here to try and persuade others to see things my way. I just have these strong feelings that something isn't right between him and Hanyu. Why didn't he include a photo of Hanyu in his Olympic ig post? Why did he avoid interviewing Hanyu. If Hanyu was the one that avoided takahashi then why? We may never know the answes to these questions. It's just strange how both are avoiding each other.

r595 I think we've covered that topic forwards, backwards and diagonally in those 3 threads. Is there really anything more left to say? Let's go back to appreciating Hanyu's ass, I'm sure this topic hasn't been exhausted yet.

R596 Yes, please. I don't know how Javi can look at R577 day in day out without wanting to utterly destroy it.

R594. LOL. I know what he's thinking. It's what a lot of us are thinking.

r594 Lol. Scali is not very subtle, is he?

[R599] if hanyus ass is on the floor, yeah he is looking at hanyus ass,

Is it that Yuzuru is the only one who wears pants that tight - or is it something about his extra-curvy shape - that makes him, uh, stick out like that? I swear I don't notice it with the other top guys - Nathan, Shoma, Boyang, even Javi. I mean, even Weir, even Adam Rippon - I don't ever remember being so distracted.

Yuzuru could wear looser bottoms, so to speak, without messing up his practice, surely. So he's doing it on purpose? Or maybe he has gotten used to the skin tight pants. I remember somewhere he said he didn't like traveling in tight pants (on airplanes?) so he chooses wisely... Oh I can't remember. I guess if you've got it, flaunt it, what the hell. Maybe it's bought him a few points along the way.

Why isn't this closing at 600? Strange.