Jazz Doing Well After Surgery

If this ho really wanted to be a woman she would have gotten a nose job before getting her pussy installed, and balls removed.

Didn't we have a thread on this already? Was it deleted?

Aftercare

Yes, several, R2.

Nope, none deleted. A simple search pulls them up.

SMH

On the other thread, there was discussion of walking around while dilating, the post op instructions are pretty clear about needing to lie flat on your back, 3 dilation sessions per day. Huge time commitment.

To clarify, not SMH at you, R2, but OP is worse than Hitler.

This was the running thread on this subject, but it was closed after 104 posts:

Then there were two more R7.

Lol this fug ladyboi always looks like he’s smelling his upper lip 😂😂🤣🤣🤣

Prior thread was closed. Perhaps that head shaking is impairing your reading ability?

Worse than Hitler comments are a blatant attempt to close this thread too. Talking about the realities of the surgery Jazz had and the post op care seems to have triggered you, otherwise you could scroll by. Blocked.

We wish her well for a speedy recovery.

Congratulations on your new hole, Jazz!

I feel like the whole trans thing is nearly impossible for gays to navigate. We simply can't criticize it without reigniting criticism of gays as mentally ill, unnatural, etc. Only straight parents and health professionals will curtail this trend.

I think 17 is too young for gender reassignment.

r15 = LITERAL VIOLENCE

R4 the Trans agenda and nutty Trans activists want to destroy gay and bisexual culture and identities, and they would love to do the same to the sexes man and woman.

Also with all of how young kids and teenagers are given hormones and surgeries, reminds me of sick things Dr. Josef Mengele, Horst Schumann, and Carl Clauberg did on Jews, Slavs, black people in Germany, bisexual and gay men, lesbian women, and Germanic men and women who refused to submit.

There are trans people, but there's no way that all of these kids and teens who claim to be trans really are. Some are trans, but if they want to transition they have the rest of their lives as adults to make the personal choice to transition and get a life changing surgery, take hormones which will totally change who they are, etc.

Who gives a shit?

Also, Trans people want to force bisexual people to use the terms queer and pansexual, falsely claiming that the term bisexual is 'Transphobic', while ignoring how the actual definition of the word pansexual means someone who will have sex with animals and do other deviant and illegal things sexually. Then you have the nutty trans people/trans activists who will flat out tell bisexuals, gay men, and lesbian women, and even hetero people who have nothing against trans people; but who do not want to date or sleep with someone that they are being Trans.

Gender “confirmation” surgery ?!!

Jesus these people.

How the fuck is "bisexual" "transphobic," r19?????

R21, Trans people and Trans activists will claim that because bi means two or that bisexual means you are attracted to both sexes/genders that this is being "transphobic" because if you are bisexual and identify as bisexual you are saying how you are not attracted to Trans people.

Thanks r22.

Ugh, so exhausting and myopic.

Now that Jazz has a neo-vadge maybe the family can focus on the other problems, like no friends, depression and anxiety, etc.

Feel gobsmacked by that video

I wish her well, though I abhor what’s been done to her.

She has that teeth-baring aggressive “smile” and her eyes look so sad.

I never heard her speak. OMG.

So the T wants the bi people to be "pansexual" which widens their desires to include T and animals

And they want gay people to become T.

It's a guy. This was done to him by his parents, unethical surgeons and therapists, and TLC.

Wait, they used an experimental procedure using some lining from the stomach harvested through the navel? I guess she decided not to go with the procedure using intestines.

Jazz is no more feminine than Jenner. Drag queens often have very feminine mannerisms but Jazz does not. I have never seen the show so the short youtube clip was the first experience with body language and voice. She also speaks very crassly and seems to burp a lot. Pulling out a hairbrush and using it in the short clip while talking was also weird. Does Jazz get out much around peers or is life pretty much online?

Cannot take more than 15 seconds of Jazz' voice and mannerisms. That is one fucking annoying person. Neo-Vadge is the least of its problems.

The voice, mannerisms and obsessive talking about genitals give some clues as to why Jazz is socially isolated from peers. Just seeing the short vid, it is hard to imagine that this show is widely watched by the general public. Maybe in certain circles this manner of speaking is typical but it is annoying as hell. Has she had jaw surgeries? The way she moves her jaw sideways is very visually distracting, is that some side effect?

Preach, R31. Had no idea.

He makes a fugly woman.

R24 I have never watched the TV show, but do the parents give attention to the other children or Jazz's siblings? The Raising a rainbow woman who is forcing her kid to be a bad gay streotype and dress in drag basically ignores her other children.

R28, bisexual people are not into having sex with animals, but pansexuals gladly will such this psychopathic pansexual Alton Brown.

A rarity as a black serial killer, Coleman preferred to victimize African Americans - with Marlene Walters his only white murder victim - and once said he was forced by blacks to kill other members of his race. By the time he killed 9-year-old Vernita Wheat in Waukegan, Ill., on May 29, 1994, Coleman was well known to Chicago-area police as a sexual predator. While only once convicted and sent to prison (where he forced three other inmates to have sex), his rap sheet contained four arrests for rape. He had even been accused by a half-sister of sexually molesting his 9-year-old niece. A prison psychiatric profile found Coleman, a ninth grade dropout with an IQ on the lower edge of normal, to be 'a pansexual willing to have intercourse with any object, women, men, children, whatever.'

........

r22, but I'm not. why the fuck would I want a fake man. Trans ppl should just date each other. Oh thats right theres not enough FTM trans, there outnumbered like 5 to 1. Because most trannys are fkin self loathing, mentally ill gay men. FUCK YOUR PC TALK.

When is that manmade vagina ready for cocks?

R36 , WTF DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH JAZZ JENNINGS ?

How could Jazz say: I had never experienced any sexual sensations or had an orgasm --- at AGE 17?!

Why has no doctor or therapist addressed that?

Is that due to being put on a blocker so early?

The surgeon was saying that those who experience orgasms before surgery typically continue to do so.

I am honestly baffled that this show is portrayed as some pro-T propaganda when it is a cautionary tale. NO sexual sensations for LIFE (pre or post op) is not normal or healthy. No amount of shopping makes up for that or the loneliness of no peer friendships. No wonder the kid is chubby.

This is really sad. Had not seen the mother, she is very masculine looking. The father seems hen pecked and a bit weird. I read he is a lawyer, no way is he a litigator. No alpha vibe whatsoever.

The whole thing is baffling as I question whether or not Jazz will ever have a penis in the vagina she says she wanted from age 3. Some kids want to be puppies or Orphan Annie, we do not lock them into it or make the family revolve around (financially too!) it though.

On the other thread someone spoke of a grandfather who expressed concerns - is he the father of the mother or the father?

Actually, the stat has flipped and there are now far more young women identifying as T. Many after being sexually assaulted. It is a very misogynistic world, maybe it makes them feel safer. Many of the young women are on the autism spectrum and have other mental health diagnoses. When Schumer spoke of his lesbian daughter getting engaged, I was surprised. A generation of lesbians has gone T instead, and the ones that remain are targets of the autogyn/MRA/cotton ceiling crowd.

Autogyns make up the next biggest group - they are typically straight men who used to marry and have kids and cross dress. It is a fetish that is lived full time and it is sexually arousing to them. These are the T who are focused on access to women only spaces, it often literally gets them off.

I think R36 is making a point about the label pansexual?

Jazz looks a lot like many girls at my kids’ middle schools. Same speech patterns, same look. If I hadn’t known, I would have assumed she was a JAPpy* girl.

* Sorry, I guess that will be construed as anti-Semitic, but much like “wigger”, it’s apt and used by everyone including themselves. There’s no other way to categorize this type of kid.

I looked up the grandfather, he didn't have real concerns against, just that he shouldn't call a person the other pronoun without being shot up with hormones. There were no adults to advise this kid.

There is nothing Jewish looking about Jazz. I ain't gna lie I would probably think he was an actual teenage Mexican girl. He is sort of unclockable.

R46, actually yes he/she does look Jewish, and apparently the family has a last name that's well known to be Jewish.

Has Laverne Cox weighed in. How does she feel about minors chopping their dicks off?

Jazz and family's look is different, though, looks more Asian than European.

R48 I'm sure she's all for it. Or wishes she had transitioned at such a young age and became a reality TV star!

R49, they look more Eastern European and Slavic to me. Especially with the round faces.

They're Jewish.

Maybe the tanning too makes them look different, being in Florida. Jazz is very tanned?

R46, I can see that, too. I can see Arabic/Indian as well. Jazz is definitely ethnic-looking. And I do think she looks like a girl.

We live in a very Jewish neighborhood; I’d estimate that half my kids’ friends are Jewish. There are so many little things about Jazz that tip me off.

I actually wish the best for her. She can't help this madness was thrust upon her. I suspect the mom is a lipstick dyke. Just kidding.

I feel bad for her I wonder how much of this was really his/her choice?

None of it was really his choice. It started at age 5 (or earlier?). He sounds completely brainwashed. Every time he talks it is just the trans program of what you had to say. When he asked questions about does anyone look at a vagina he broke through the trans speeches for a few seconds and the parents just laughed and wouldn't answer him. All they know is the trans speech.

Is he going to school? Does he plan to go to university? Does he have any academic interests? Is this going to be his whole life?

The hairbrush bit was weird. Like a bit of visual choreography to break up the video which was all speaking. Was he told to do that, or is he so used to performing for cameras he knew to incorporate something visual to look at for entertainment purposes? Or was he reasserting he is a "a girl"?

It's all an adrenaline rush and distraction. He's so used to being in the spotlight with media, social media attention and well wishers, etc. As long as he can keep that going he can put off what all of this might actually mean for his every day life. Imagine Jazz working in a hum drum cube farm , not being a celeb, having to integrate being trans into a normal life. He might feel differently. That said, I think he can keep this going for a long time. There will inevitably be a book, he'll be a celeb in the trans world and invited to all sorts of events and speaking engagements, maybe more tv, and on and on. He's clickbait.

IIRC he was close to a toddler (maybe 2?) when his mom decided he was trans. Something about putting on her very female slippers? This hag had three other kids so she should know that kids put on adults' shoes all the time. Instead, she was searching for something that made her special. A gay boy wasn't enough, so she hoped on the Trans bandwagon and will ride it to the end, no matter what it has done to her son.

Boy are they EVER jewish! Dad is the only one who's passably good looking.

"Jazz" doll

Two models will be available: one features Jazz dressed in the same outfit she wears on the cover of her memoir ($89) and one features Jazz in "more of a party dress" look ($100).

I think the dad is good looking but he seems like he gave his balls to his very hatchet faced wife. Not hot.

I thought that the 2 versions of the doll were going to be with a dick and castrated.

How has a 17 year old NEVER HAD ANY SEXUAL SENSATIONS? Is this some new eunuch program - chemically castrate in grade school then do the chop and dilate in HS? Dilating seems super unsexy. Unless the blood and pain are your thing.

No wonder they all spend so much time online, they need to be occupied in the 3x a day sessions. I cannot imagine taking hormones that have links to kidney issues, MS or heart attacks and having to lay around 3x a day with a tube stuck in me, motionless.

When Jazz had his last testosterone blocker installed, he woke up from the surgery with an erection.

Mom started the trans program at age 3.

This is what Jaye Davidson looks like today, the actor who fearlessly embraced his androgyny when he was younger and was allowed to without being pigeonholed as "trans." If every kid who "felt like the opposite sex" was allowed the freedom he was, would we have a gender dysphoria problem today? Would we have people mutilating their penises into fake vaginal canals or being convinced that a comical version of a penis made out of arm and thigh skin made them "more whole?" I don't think so.

Interesting, R63. So much for the credibility of his claim to have never had any sexual sensations. Or did his dick getting hard not count?

I am assuming th

Is it true that the blockers prevented his penis from growing to full size?

I am assuming the scene was on the show or it was discussed?

Do T and their families ever talk about the weather or vacations? Or is it genitalia and TERFS 24/7?

Given how miserable her/his life seems to be, lacking in any normal teen experiences, why would parents want to follow their path like a road map?

Is Jazz going away to college?

[quote]Is it true that the blockers prevented his penis from growing to full size?

The sex-change doctor said on the show that his penis and scrotum were "tiny". That makes the operation much more problematic due to lack of raw materials.

Yes, R67. He had a micro peen, so it could not be inverted. One option was to rub hormone creams into it, Jazz refused. Another was to use a skin stretching technique, Jazz refused. Another option is using intestinal tissue, Jazz refused, worried about smell.

Seems that they went with an experimental procedure using some kind of stomach lining tissue, using laparoscopy. Hope it works out for Jazz.

What kind of pain killers do you get when your cock and balls are lopped off?

That's horrible about the blockers. Just let the kid grow into a fully-grown adult with a full-sized dick and see where he stands. Until then give him some space for gender experimentation and see where it leads. Let him dress as a woman, etc. If he gets to adulthood and still wants to transition, then so be it.

Jazz was encouraged to masturbate before the surgery with he hope that after the surgery she would experience sexual pleasure. Apparently she never did, I suspect because masturbating with a penis would scare her into not wanting he surgery because she’d like her cock so much.

She did enjoy being able to pee standing up.

The tissue they harvested for her fake vagina is from her abdominal wall, the peritoneum. I cannot believe they took a huge swath of that out. Cannot imagine how they did it. It would be like having an instant giant hernia.

Yes, they showed her waking up from the testosterone blocker surgery saying, "I have a boner". Her brothers instantly doubled over in laughter and her mother warned, "Jazz, you are being filmed. You are on camera."

The dad looked mortified.

Jazz did not want to masturbate, or have a tissue expander placed in her scrotum, or have an intestinal tissue graft because of the smell. She basically wanted an instant vagina, please. No fuss, no muss. Ahem.

I'm pretty sure I'd wear my new pussy out in about 6 months.

Whoa, all this stuff about not wanting to find ways to create enough tissue because it meant dealing with his genitalia are warning signs. This is not a kid who's making mature, fully thought-out decisions.

Jazz doesn't seem like a boy, but he doesn't really seem like a girl either--it's that uncanny valley thing--even with the boobs. He's not actually all that feminine, which is strange given that he's been role-playing a girl since he was a toddler. Part of it is the skeletal differences--the forehead and angle of the jawline, but it's also the mannerisms. They're a little bit off--I'm not surprised that s/he doesn't have friends--there's a social awkwardness there that would make it difficult.

Some years back I saw a documentary about two MtFs who detransitioned, including one who'd married twice and had had full surgery. He said that one of the things he noticed is that his body worked better. It was much easier to "walk like a man" because that's how his body was made to work. He'd detransitioned because it was just such an effort to live as trans, so he hadn't some blinding flash of insight, but once he quit the hormones and such, he just found he wasn't fighting his body all the time.

The push for early transing comes from the idea that it will be easier to pass, but, ultimately, you're still facing a lifetime of fighting your body's natural inclinations. Fighting your body that hard is almost a guaranteed way to continue the feeling of dysphoria if you think about it.

Really interesting post, R75.

Absolutely horrifying that they would film a minor child waking up from surgery. The degree of exploitation is simply astonishing.

Jazz, under such pressure, may never desist but I cannot imagine Jazz as a happy, socially connected teen or adult. Someone who is socially awkward in front of cameras does not teach social and life skills. Jazz is pretty insufferable and seems desperately lonely.

Putting someone who is socially akward...

Could Jazz be on the autism spectum? It is common in the T population and would explain the social difficulties and sensory stuff.

But god forbid you should ever mention wanting to "pass" to a T. It is the ultimate insult. I don't get that because it seems to obviously true. Why else start hormones before puberty? Why else use hormone blockers?

Some of these kids are saying it is because the changes resulting from normal puberty would be so devastating, they would kill themselves.

If that is the case, in to the psychiatric hospital you go, sweetie, because this is NOT the mindset of someone who should be undergoing chemical castration and subsequent surgery. If you cannot even have a rational discussion about what you are doing, you should not be pulling in medical personnel.

And as far as Jazz's not being fully committed to being female? She went into a phase where she behaved like an obnoxious frat boy, farting and burping all the time, doubling over in laughter at the disapproval this got her. She is HIGHLY resistant to therapy. Absolutely refuses to have real therapy be filmed. They got a family friend to provide one of the 2 letters of support she'd need from psychiatric professionals. We don't know who the other was. Neither provided any kind of insight into what the hell is going on here.

And if this show was truly interested in informing and educating, they would allow us to see family therapy. Lord knows, these people are in desperate need of intensive therapy.

Yes, he was not given that chance, R71. That is awful and I don't know how this is even legal.

Yes, good post R75.

I agree with everyone on the thread who is disturbed by this

[quote]Absolutely horrifying that they would film a minor child waking up from surgery. The degree of exploitation is simply astonishing.

True. And the mother there telling what to say "on camera" as well. Has ever had his own thoughts? It's all trans propaganda and cameras. He is not mature enough to make these decisions, and it is all frankenstein stuff anyway.

Plus it has made the kid absolutely miserable, R81. Chubby, friendless and with mental health issues. What a role model!

Who sees this result and wants that for themselves or their kid?

I genuinely believe cancer rates are being suppressed. Are they being re-classified somehow, like all this violent crime is being said to have been committed by women?

[quote]He had a micro peen, so it could not be inverted. One option was to rub hormone creams into it, [bold]Jazz refused[/bold]. Another was to use a skin stretching technique, [bold]Jazz refused[/bold]. Another option is using intestinal tissue, [bold]Jazz refused[/bold], worried about smell.

Is he just lazy/immature, or is his lack of cooperation a sign of something else?

Yeah, probably there is a side of him that is rejecting it, but he is on a show that must go on!

I have only ever watched clips from DL and I always thought the show was negative. One time I was in a room with TV (not my home) and I was flipping the channels. I was stressed out and wanted a distraction. Of course there was nothing worth watching. Then I kept flipping and there was the "Jazz Jennings" show - I thought, ok I will see some of it - and I couldn't watch it - I thought it was terrible, the whole premise. It is obviously exploitation and wrong,. I saw that from a few minutes. I thought who could watch this show?

I'm not being cynical here but have they ever considered giving trans feeling kids more testosterone rather than the opposite. Why not give them meds n shit to make them feel like their born gender, rather than meds to make them female and all these invasive surgeries. Perhaps the real medical diagnoses should be that their brains should be wired to fit their physical and DNA sex chromosomes.

It is just some OCD obsession because they have anxiety or autism or whatever, but the internet and trans Inc is making it a thing.

The need real therapist to treat the anxiety and get them off the obsession, not feed them trans lies and ignore the underlying issues.

I see a pron career in her future.

[quote]I feel like the whole trans thing is nearly impossible for gays to navigate. We simply can't criticize it without reigniting criticism of gays as mentally ill, unnatural, etc

r14 see r78's post. I've never agreed with the meme that this "the same thing they said about gays." Gays never displayed the same sort of body dysphoria, gender confusion, desire to lop off healthy body parts, need for outside validation, threats of suicide and a host of other mental issues that present themselves in many trans people. In fact, most many gays managed to grow up to navigate everyday life just fine if only by remaining closeted in their public life but expressing their sexual orientation among other gays and trusted friends. In other words, they were comfortable in this own skin with no need for anyone to affirm them as the opposite sex which they never believed they were.

Poor Jazz is a very disturbing kid who seems like a victim of social contagion and put on the path to sexual reassignment by an over zealous mother long before he could think for himself or really have any clear understanding of transgender or what is actually entailed in full gender reassignment surgery.

I hope he/she finds what they're looking for but she has a very rough road ahead of her. The surgery will not magically fix anything.

The move toward surgery seems more about keeping a story arc going rather than what was the best long-term option for Jazz. Given that there were all these puberty blockers, why push this before s/he was 18. Why really ever do this before the age of 25 when the brain is fully developed?

One of the people in the Atlantic-article-that-shall-not-be-named had loads of testosterone and a mastectomy in her teens and desisted in her early 20s. She's now stuck with a beard, no boobs and a weird low voice. Just don't see why irreversible medical decisions are being made by troubled teens. No surgeon would ever encourage anorexia in a teenager because she sees a fat self in the mirror.

We have enough issues with actual adults like Chelsea Manning, who blamed her poor judgment, in part, on not dealing with being transgender. However, transitioned Chelsea is still not happy--to the point of being suicidal. Why? Because you don't fix internal problems with external changes. If you weren't coping with life before, you won't be coping with it afterwards. The fucking Cinderella narrative needs to stop.

That said, there are people who seem to be genuinely more happy transitioning--I think Lana Wachowski is, though she's probably a worse film maker--but those people are the exception, not the rule. That's because the kind of dysphoria that can be effectively treated by externals is rare. And a teen girl who suddenly announces she's trans after a few bouts with Tumblr is NOT one of those people.

It’s a good point, r86. Girls on testosterone and progestin have reported feeling extremely horny (usually for sex with other females) because the testosterone basically makes their bodies have typical pubescent male urges. On the other hand, estrogen usually diminishes a natal males’ sex drive because his body is not “wired” to be receptive in the same way that a natal woman’s is, but giving more estrogen to a “butch” female would probably make her not only develop more feminized physical attributes but also may make her experience her sensuality in a more typically feminine, receptive way.

You’d think give a gender-conflicted adolescent a little dose of the right sex-appropriate hormones might help clarify things for them and dissipate the gender confusion within a few months. But that’s never, to my knowledge, an option any of them are urged to try.

Instead, they’re launched into a lifetime of expensive and dangerous cross-sex hormone injections and unnecessary surgeries, which perpetuates all kinds of woes.

Enough already. I'm sick of this long-nosed "chick" staring at me.

I think physically, Jazz reminds me of Nia Vardolas’s character in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. I looked it up just now to try to find a good scene to link to and instead I saw that Nia and her husband Ian Gomez just filed for divorce yesterday, after nearly 25 years of marriage! That’s a shame. They said they’ve been separated for a year and their breakup is mutual and amicable, but it’s still sad to see.

One thing i wanted to add: not really sure about the parents' rationale in doing the show. The dad is a savvy money manager to be sure, so maybe he negotiated some great terms with tlc. But the mom had Jazz on Baba walters like 10 years ago and started shopping a reality show around shortly after that. So for the mom it might have been an opportunity for more Munchausen attention. But for the dad, it may have been an opportunity to build a trust fund for Jazz so she won't have to work. Let's face it: am not seeing a successful career for Jazz, unless it is in the entertainment industry or something related. And it's a slippery slope to freak show.

Jazz stopped going to school this last year. Now she does online school at home. There was some discussion in the show of a gap year, so her mother could supervise the dilation schedule. During this same time frame, the older siblings withdrew from the show, although one of the twins is supervising Jazz's social media presence. I just hope someone in that family comes to their senses and prevents the whole family from becoming a wacky tv presence.

Anyone here ever fuck a MTF? How does it feel?

A neo-vagina can tear and perforate during fucking

Wait, so the kid is supposed to take another year off of life, become even MORE out of step with peers, just to stick a tube in her fake vaj 3x per day? She has no job or outlets, it is the worst idea.

Maybe her social anxiety has something to do with the gay man not accepted thing? Or feeling fraudulent? It is very sad. She was not set free in some sense by presenting as a girl.

How exactly does a mother supervise such a thing? Jazz does not seem like a kid comfortable with bodily functions or likely to do something that he/she is not keen on. Blood and pain? Not likely. Unless the mother watches her stick the dilator in and lay there, 3x per day, I sincerely doubt that will be happening.

R97, Jazz will never be in step with her peers. That is over. Hopefully she will find some healthy support and friendships among "queers" her age, but honestly that demographic doesn't sound like they are that healthy or capable of supporting others.

Not going off to college when you have a parent who is a lawyer just seems like a huge experience to miss out on. She comes from a family that values education and money. Going to GLAD events should not be some life sentence. The less time she spends around people, the harder it will get.

Jazz should go to one of those very trans-friendly women's colleges--like Mills or Sarah Lawrence--something artsy. Unfortunately, she seems a little vapid for that. There's not a lot else going on except being trans on TV.

Of course, at this point, s/he's been so physically damaged that there's a lot of medical maintenance, which means Jazz will be pushed by mom to stay near home.

I read the paper cited by R96. Holy shit. That was a 33 year old trans woman, who had had the surgery 7 years prior, so presumably had plenty of time to heal and build up scar tissue. She had the traditional method, inverting the penis and adding volume with the scrotal sac. Two hours before presenting to the ER she had sex that tore up her neovagina, resulting in severe pain, masking as a urinary tract infection. Bilateral pain, bleeding, air in the abdominal cavity. Could have become fatal, as the torn neovagina was allowing contents to seep into the peritoneum.

Given that so little has been researched on these procedures, i am pretty sure no one has done any kind of a comparative study, in say animal models, or a meta-analysis of case studies over time. So we don't know what the risks of each technique are. Jazz was one of the first to have this abdominal lining used to build a neovagina. I'll look up the literature on the strength of the peritoneum.....

This is a nightmare!!!! Did her well-educated dad do any research on this stuff before allowing that annoying tool Marci Bowers to play erector set with Jazz's innards?!?!?! Can't even say she'll sue because they were doing all kinds of shit against medical advice, starting with putting a 10 year old on hormone blockers. A nightmare from start to finish.......

Wellesley.

How old was he/she when he/she began taking hormones? It's not normal for a 17 year old to have never experienced any sexual sensations. Perhaps if he/she had developed into a normal teenage boy he'd be happy and have a normal sex life. Now it seems having any sex life will be impossible.

Also, he/she appears to be on the autism spectrum. Why do all trans seem to be autistic?

R91, after going through puberty, almost all desist, for exactly the hormonal reasons you cite. That is why, to grow a movement, it has to be targeting kids who will have puberty blocked, and bring in the autistic and/or autogyn adults, who are particularly susceptible to things like hypno sissy porn (the hypno part helps seal the deal).

R101 - the kid ended up with shoulders like a linebacker, regardless. Nature definitely tries to re-assert

A "vagina" that tears from rough sex . . . damn, only a man would think that anything that flimsy is like the real deal. Real vaginas are basically muscular tubes capable of a strong grip and, of course, pushing an 8-pound baby through. It would take a lot more than rough sex to perforate one.

Experimenting on minors this way is beyond fucked up.

Has she downloaded the dilation app that will remind her to force open her new wound, I mean vagina? Will that be an entire episode in the next season?

No app necessary. She has her mom.

In the clip he says "if there are complications," he will deal with that later, and said that he a can-do etc attitude. I don't think he still really knew what this entailed. His parents and the "surgeon" were extremely irresponsible. And "experimental" surgery on top of it. Even the "regular" surgery is experimental-crazy..

Why doesn't Jazz just get slammed in the butt?

[quote]Given that so little has been researched on these procedures, i am pretty sure no one has done any kind of a comparative study, in say animal models, or a meta-analysis of case studies over time.

The thought of someone doing this centipede-level butchery on laboratory animals makes my blood boil. They’d better not be creating permanent gash wounds in beagles or chimpanzees somewhere 😡

ALL of this trans bullshit is unnecessary and unethical. I hope the detransitioners organize and hire good lawyers to put a stop to this madness.

[quote]That said, there are people who seem to be genuinely more happy transitioning--I think Lana Wachowski is...

...is a total sad trainwreck! I mean good LORD have you seen him?

What is with those two? BOTH of them, and looking like truckers in bad drag.

I think Stef Sanjati should help Jazz out. Stef has shared her long journey into womanhood ever since he was a teen gay boy. Now he's a woman with a penis. But he's had everything else done. Truth is I kind of like Stef, but the genital situation is a bit problematic. Fun Fact: Stef's fans paid for her Facial Feminization Surgeries and Butt lift and lip fillers and botox etc. She has sponsors too. Stef is like a brainy Gigi Gorgeous. Jazz is still a fucking child. Still these bitches know their procedures.

I don’t get it. What happened to the tiny-meat-can’t-be-remade-into-vag story line?

R112, Hey I think Lana looks absurd, but s/he does seem happier. Hir bro/sis though has disappeared--get the feeling that that transition hasn't gone so well. Larry/Lilly looked awful in drag and seems to have totally disappeared (dropping out of Sense8, no news) since coming out as Lilly in 2016. Something went wrong there--I'd love to know more about what happened. I've sometimes wondered if Larry was always the little brother who followed whatever big brother Andy did. Andy got into the whole BDSM scene and then went trans. Wonder if Larry was just kind pulled into it because he was so enmeshed with Andy. If Andy was really a Lana, then Larry may have figured he must therefore be a Lilly. Or didn't know how not to be.

Anyway LIlly/Larry's disappeared from public view.

Oops, it's Lana/Larry, Lilly/Andy.

So we're adding Jazz to the Celebrity Death Pool for 2018 or 2019?

Supervise the dilation schedule? Haha.

Very true R59, when I was I believe 4-5 I put on my mom's high heeled shoes since I would see her wearing them and I liked the sounds they made when she walked, and I am not Trans or even a drag queen.

My friend's younger brother did this with their mom's shoes when he was that age and he's not trans either.

R62, in one of the other threads someone posted a link to pics of some twink that apparently was castrated. I'm not going to post the link here as it's fucked up and crazy, but you can find it for yourself.

He castrated himself with rubber bands (note, the images are unforgettable and horrifying, but it shreds the medicalized veil since he did it himself, like you would with cattle).

Now that Jazz has the neo-vadge, what other life goals are there, or is that the peak at 17?

I imagine that dilating will be a recurring theme. Anything to keep the focus off what an actual trainwreck the life of a kid and the whole family has become. This was not liberating for Jazz, it is taken the place of a life.

Suicide goes UP after transition, will Jazz see 25?

R63, was that shown on the TV show or something? I do not watch it. If he was given puberty blocking hormones could he even get an erection? Or did this happen despite him being given the puberty blocking hormones? I wonder if he ever had a wet dream?

Yes, it was on the show, R123, and it was despite the 3 blockers. A new one had just been implanted, that was the surgery he woke up from. Amazing how quickly Nature pushes back.

How long until she leaks some kittycat pics?

R122, I would seriously not be surprised if Jazz's parents and the producers try to make Jazz into a pop star!

I really hope she does not go into porn/prostitution as a lot of Trans people, both FTM and MTF do, and they wind up killing themselves.

Does the dad engage in the homosex?

[quote][R62], in one of the other threads someone posted a link to pics of some twink that apparently was castrated.

He's talking about this guy, who proudly shows off his "stump" online and runs a community helping others to remove their penis and testicles. He considers himself "non-binary."

A new LGBTQ++ hero . Will GLAAD and HRC honor him with a banquet?

[quote]I think Stef Sanjati should help Jazz out. Stef has shared her long journey into womanhood ever since he was a teen gay boy. Now he's a woman with a penis.

Is this a joke?

That twink who castrated himself with rber bands, like some farm animal. How about the penis? He couldn't do that with rubber bands, right? How about peeing? It takes days for that to happen, right?

There's a picture of the twink with a catheter so maybe he uses that from time to time.

I want the dad in me quite deeply.

Living with an open wound all your live must be hell, is just calling for infections. Women already have problems because of how close the vagina is to the anus, that's why they have to wipe front to back otherwise feces particles and other bacteria can get into the vagina and cause yeasts or urinary infection. And that's even with the natural protections they have that this 'neo vaginas' obviously don't.

Didn't he remove the penis with rubber bands, too?

Interesting, r61, that the original Barbi doll in Germany was actually a sex toy.

R68, I bet he goes to a an “all women’s” college...where the “Vagina Monologues” are banned.

Why can't they just update the Vagina Monologue with a few monologues about trans vaginas? Better than banning.

Why can't trannies write their own show instead of glomming onto a successful one?

Oh yeah, that's their MO. Glom onto something already established and successful and suck it dry.

Fucking parasites.

Would it be called the front hole monologues?

Most women do not wipe front to back, and do not develop infections.

Jazz is now in her second post-operative week and total media black-out. Am guessing the cold splash of water known as her fucked up new reality has finally hit her. Will she develop an oxy addiction? Will she binge eat to My 600 pound life levels, since there is no longer any external pressure not to? Will her mother return to her hoarder tendencies?

TLC has a one stop family on its hands.

Could they have made the vagina out of the extra nose tissue?

😂 r142 took the words right outta my mouth!

That’s a huge snot locker. Like Karl Malden’s.

She has said she loves her nose, it's a feature she embraces fully.

All that pioneering work of her grandmother, right down the drain......

Really? The nose is rather phallic. I'm surprised it doesn't create more dysphoria.

R131, here's the link. WARNING IT'S EXTREMELY GRAPHIC! NSFW (not safe for work).

It's seriously one of the most shocking things I have seen online and this is coming from someone who used to watch gory videos that were leaked online, and look at crime-scene photos. I also used to watch faces of death videos in the 80s and 90s when they were everywhere in video rental stores.

That was disgusting

R147 what was it?

R128 eunuch was probably embarrassed by his micro-penis, & opted out...

Oh. My. God. How is that even possible? How did he not bleed to death? How did he not pass out from the pain? WTF??!?!??!?!?

I think he did do the penis with rubber bands, R131. Shudder. It was on the prior, now closed, thread.

Re: peeing, think there was a catheter? Can anyone remember? I am trying to block the whole series of images from my brain, to be honest.

^Yes, he had a catheter right after the "surgery."

How is that eunuch walking the streets?

r141 A natural vagina is not an open wound though and have fluids that protect them and clean it.

Sure, Jan

Listen Toots. This trans stud with a vagina tells how he tops gay cis men. He's more than enough for any of you and don't you forget it. He shouldn't have to be rejected because he's a trans top without a penis!!

Not surprising that Barbara Walters told Corey Feldman to shut up about Hollywood pedophiles AND also had no problem with the way Jazz Jennings was being treated.

Yeah, there is something creepy about the early-on Jazz connection.

I mean with Barbara Walters.

R41 the grandfather is the father of the mother.

I've only watched the show sporadically but in the first episode it was explained that they cut off family members who didn't agree with them. As far as I know, none of the father's relatives have ever been mentioned on the show. Just the mother's parents and it was mentioned that the mother has a cousin who is a LGBT counselor.

What is going on around here? I see the Alison Moyet thread got shut down, why? how much longer will this Jazz thread last? The last two have already been shut down. I am getting really sick of this censorship and it doesn't help the T cause at all. It just makes people think there is some kind of conspiracy going on.

[quote] It just makes people think there is some kind of conspiracy going on.

There is a conspiracy going on. It's the conspiracy of don't bite the dick that's feeding you.

Well that explains it r162.

What happened on the Allison Moyet thread?

The twink at R146 reminds me of this weird guy. I actually saw him by accident in a porn and it was not until he was fully naked, and the camera footage showed his ass, and crotch did you see how he has no genitals at all?! Link is obviously NSFW not safe for work.

Another link about that crazy eunuch bear. Again NSFW.

Profile of eunuch bear on hook up site. NSFW

"Strong Anus"

Utterly dumbstruck.

Will this be the show's last season? There is nothing to talk about anymore.

There could be a ton more to talk about if they follow her in her post-operation life.

If you want to understand the recent trans mania, watch "Aravani Girls" on Amazon. It is a heartbreaking documentary about young gay teens in India who become ‘ladyboys’.

These children are not trans – they are gay. But, they are so in need of acceptance by their parents that they are willing to amputate their cock and balls – not ‘bottom surgery’ to create a neovag, but just have their junk lopped off. They are hired out as dancers and many of them become sex workers.

They have boyfriends within their Aavani community but they are willing to forego sexual pleasure in order to be accepted back into their families. The sad thing is, more often than not, the family will still shun them.

What is happening here in the States is much more insidious. People are being convinced that it is better to ‘transition’ than to be gay and mass hysteria is confirming these ideas. Add a Munchausen mama and you have Jazz.

R171, I can see getting one last season out of the aftermath of the operation. But I don't see what the compelling storyline would be beyond that for most viewers.

Sadly true R172. This "mass hysteria" will disappear like MPD and ritual abuse diagnosis, once popular and medically pioneered theories that ruined lives, sanity and families. Dismantling people for profit and out of medical curiosity. Pathologizing what are natural tendencies. Gay children often go through a time of confusion about their gender, because they are attracted to the same sex, they might identify or fantasize about being the opposite sex.

Lots of mommies and daddies prefer a "manufactured" girl over a girly boy.

R174, a lot of this hysteria isn't being driven by parents. That's really clear if you visit 4th Wave now and you'll read parents feeling heavily pushed to have their kids transition--that if they don't, the kids will kill themselves. The emotional blackmail's pretty horrendous. The online trans community also encourages questioning kids to cut off contact with their parents and to secretly obtain things like hormones and binders.

Thing is, becoming a teen-age girl in the U.S. is kind of an awful experience--particularly for girls who don't fit the pretty-pretty princess model and are sexually attracted to other girls. There's long been an issue with body dysmorphia issues like anorexia and bulimia. But this is the first time I can remember the distortion and injury to the body being fucking encouraged.

My kid went to a girl's middle school--out of a class of 60, two girls, age 13, decided they were trans. No, they were both unhappy, confused little lesbians. I wish to hell, there was some better support of that, combined with healthy body acceptance.

R168, yeah I saw pics of that guy taking fists/arms. In the one interview he claimed some bisexual man actually gives the area where he had his cock and balls removed oral sex and licks it but that's a lie as is his claim that he has some hetero/straight guy fuck him up the ass because there are no male genitals there.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[quote]I can see getting one last season out of the aftermath of the operation. But I don't see what the compelling storyline would be beyond that for most viewers.

Singing and dating!

They might take it off the air if it takes a more obvious serious turn. Or maybe they won't!

It's straight people butting into young gay or lesbian or tomboy's private lives, private thoughts. They don't understand it and go for the heavily promoted trans push. It being pushed at school now. That is really bad.

R177 you're right. I think they would have tried to make a star out of Jazz but the talent isn't there.

The only reason that Kim Petras has made it this far in music is because Petras is trans and has some deep-pocketed allies trying to get that career off the ground. Petras' looks, singing ability and personality are all very average and are not going to sustain a solo career. It would have been better to put Petras in a girl group but maybe they don't want the up-close comparison to real girls. They'll try that with the next trans girl singer.

R177 a lot of these adult trans women like Laverne Cox claim to be jealous yet they would never consider having the bottom surgery. They are not parting with their penises!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

There is a wealth of stuff the "I am Jazz" people have available to them, but the thing is, they are SO PC they will never use the show to explore any topic realistically. Like family therapy. Straight cis men vs straight trans men dating Jazz. Jazz's sex drive, or lack thereof as a result of hormonal suppression. Dilatation of the neovagina, and the care and maintenance of same. In-depth mental health treatment. An exploration of the mental illness issues associated with Gender Dysphoria and Body Dysmorphia. Attitudes about homosexuality in the Jennings family.

The fertility issues involving the sister. Her perspective on being an older sister in this family.

There is a ton of stuff they could pursue, but I know that that Munchausen Mom is NOT going to let her little fantasy façade be torn down just so they can be honest.

When, R182? Why would Cox do such a thing?

R179, they also do this with bisexual women and men who are femme/butch/androgynous, and you also have Trans people who do this who insist that bisexual people use the term pansexual or queer, as in their minds (or what they call intelligent minds), if you identify as bisexual you are being transphobic, yet they use the term pansexual completely incorrectly as the term means someone who will have sex with animals and other things that are sick and illegal and that LGB people are not into sexually at all.

R182, I am not sure? Cox claims she transitioned in private but I was not sure if that entailed a full sex change, or not? I find her pretty tiresome and ignore her except or when her name comes up in discussion threads like this.

R183 all the topics you mentioned they could discuss but as you point out they don't.

Instead, they pretend they are so "open" by having Jazz sit at the dinner table with the parents while asking the father what he thinks of the mother's vagina.

r164, What happened? you tell me. It got shut down for whatever reason with 77 replies. Too much cis talk?

R179, you also have Trans people and Trans activists who want to call women and men who are not Trans, Cis, as though this will somehow ever catch on. Haha. Then you have the nutcases who are Trans who use it as a slur or with the 'Die cis scum" bs. You also have universities which now promote this hateful rhetoric and LGB students and our rights get sidetracked for Trans people.

I rememer when it was LGBT which at the time I was OK with, but now they have LGBTQIA which stands for queer, interesx, and the A stands for asexual which makes no sense lumping people who are gay or bisexual in with someone who is Asexual who does not have any sexual attraction at all to anyone of the same or opposite sex.

What happened to TLC's other proposed trans teen show “Growing Up Evancho”? Jackie and Juliet seem to have fallen off the radar.

What I am always surprised by is that even in kids like Jazz and Kim Petras, the male always comes through. The older Jazz gets, the more masculine she looks. Petras also looks like a German man, especially the legs. There is something going on with the Y-chromosome that goes beyond fetal testosterone. There are male anatomical features (waists that are too wide, leg muscles too defined, browbones that are too prominent, noses that look male...) that seem architecturally preserved even in an onslaught of hormone manipulation.

R179 I read a recent article about a film about a very masculine/Stone butch Lesbian, who now Hollywood is trying to rebrand as being a Transman, just because she took a man's name and dressed in men's clothing.

I also remember when nutty Trans activists did this with Joan of Arc claiming that because she dressed up in armor or wore what a man would wear in battle and had short hair that she must be Trans. Despite how those fools know nothing about how armor would offer protection, and having very long hair in battle was dangerous as someone attacking could easily grab hold of it.

R172, Those are Hijra which are in India and South Asian countries a 3rd gender/sex. Despite Western people, and South Asians trans people trying to claim them as Trans historically and even today they are different than Transgender and Transvestites.

The circle jerk of queer theory/gender studies/women's studies trying to claim that Joan of Arc is Transgender.

Trans will say everyone on DL is trans, as well as all children. It is like Mormons baptizing all the dead, including atheists and people from other religions.

The only ones trans will say are not trans are trans who murder, expose themselves, rape etc...then it's "that person is not really trans."

Even more Trans revisionist history. Some of these people like Jorgensen were Trans, but the rest who did not get any sort of surgery?

Those "Transgender" "journals" are the most disturbing, detailed representations of mental illness ever. The fake science ones are even more insane. Then you have dumb know-nothings who have grown up under the internet who think it is real and they are writing papers using them.

Lorraine Cox usually avoids questions about her level of surgery like this:

Other times she has talked about having a "female" penis. I think she still has a dick. She's 46 years old.

Yeah, that stuff is really ignorant and insulting, R196. I remember a DL thread about an article about a woman doctor (I think it was doctor) who had to dress like a man, etc and it was because of the sexist times a hundred years ago or more when women couldn't do anything. And some pig was claiming this was a "transgender" person. This was in The Guardian of course.

You also have nutty racist hate groups like black lives matter and so called progressive/SJW types who want to destroy and revise history as they did this in Socialist/Marxist/Communist countries, and they want the statue of Joan of Arc in New Orleans torn down because it offends them.

He..

Yeah, all ignorance, R200. Incredible, depressing ignorance.

I think the 1% encourage this because they want an ignorant population, not an intelligent one that will see what they are doing.

Black Lives Matter does not belong in this conversation. I won't discuss it further, but you are flamed.

They are really pushing the pan label to encompass T. Today the singer in Panic at the Disco came out as pan even though he is married to a woman and has written songs about threesomes with 2 women (as a teen, such a role model). Total queer baiting 101, and surely there is an album not selling or about to be released. When he spoke about what he meant he described bisexuality, but that has really been erased and is considered a slur. I agree with the poster upthread that pan encompasses kids and animals and many things illegal or at least unsavory. But get a generation to adopt it (their IRL orientation be damned) and it may start to gain traction legally. Like gay rights victories were embraced by the incest crowd to use as bootstraps. Sometimes I think back to Anita Bryant and think she must have gotten an advance copy of where this was all headed.

Jazz was a miserable teen and I imagine will continue to be unhappy. Such a cautionary tale.

On Fourth Wave Now parents are terrified of losing custody and any say over what happens to their kids. Laws that permitted abortions without parental consent are being extended to cover things like a double mastectomy for a 15 year old, paid for by the taxpayers. That is dangerous and has a staggering recovery period, 6-8 weeks. These kids, many mentally ill AND on the autism spectrum are mere cannon fodder in the chaos war being waged by the T. Tragic.

Every aspect of this insanity is horrible, R204 and it goes on and on.

L&G fought hard for dignity and T is dragging LGB into insanity, freaks with bestiality, pedo, exhibitionists, nullo etc. I really don't get how the "medical" stuff on minors isn't a crime. Where are the lawyers and health professionals? And the media refusing to tell the truth. It is like the Nazi era.

The lawyers and health professionals are promoting the government (global government) agenda from what I can see.

Yes, they are.

R204 incest? Or do you mean the sick N A M B L A people and how a lot of the so called leaders of early gay/LGB rights movement were pedophiles like Harry Hay, Allen Ginsberg, Harvey Milk, and others who sexually abused kids and teens-heck even Matthew Shepard was a pedo, and you have pedo apologists like John Waters and Dan Savage.

There are incest activists using the gay rights language like T did.. Pedos, too.

When you know better, you'll do better R208.

I mean this, specifically, a Time cover story, referencing the gay rights Lawrence decision and questioning if incest should be legal under a similar rubric.

At about that time, incest began to be pushed as a theme in shows on networks like MTV, who had earlier featured gay story lines and AIDs story lines on shows like Real World.

Dan Savage pushes T, too.

For example, this show

R206 it is crazy how medical professionals have all jumped on board with T stuff. At a local hospital they replaced all bathrooms with Gender Neutral bathrooms, and a hetero friend of mine went into there just to take a piss and was shocked by this, and while we are both progressive it is a bit absurd how identity and Trans politics have overtaken everything.

I am friends with people who are medical professionals and when I asked them how they feel about all of these kids and teenagers starting to identify as Trans or being labeled as being trans, they said (probably since they want to keep their medical licenses) that the kids and teens are trans, even though there's no way statistically that they are all trans just because they question or imitate the opposite sex.

I don't get it at all, R214. On a scientific basis, on a health basis, on an intellectual basis, on an ethical basis, on a child/minor care basis, on a legal/liability basis - it does not make sense. Are they all so easily brainwashed that all of that is not considered?

MTV previously pushed gay acceptance, not promotes incest. Guess we will see if the laws follow.

[quote]even Matthew Shepard was a pedo

I'm sure you can provide a valid link to a source proving this R208. Right?

The relentless targeting of young people with propoganda brings this quote to mind...

R208 and R217 please take it to another thread before you get this one shut down, too. Gracias.

Breaking Yet Another Taboo on Television: Incest

I haven't had TV since 2008, so I didn't realize how much they have been pushing it lately.

It is really hard to watch or listen to Jazz. Her mannerisms are so odd and distracting.

Jazz is an annoying and loud queen with long hair and no dick.

Legal gains for gays may have been less about helping us and more about functioning as a Trojan horse.

In hindsight, Bryant got an early look at the plan.

R222 compare that video of Jazz to this one of Jazz's sister, Ari. Quite a difference.

[quote]Legal gains for gays may have been less about helping us and more about functioning as a Trojan horse.

I am starting to wonder that, too.

Jesus Christ, how has someone not beaten the shit out of Jazz already. He is so fucking annoying.

How has she not gotten a nose job yet? She looks hideous.

Like you R228, Jazz has a vagina made out of a colon. She's not worried about her nose but what it will smell like when she gets fucked.

Maybe Jazz will have facial work done after the show goes off the air. Then Jazz wouldn't be that recognizable and could lead a more normal life if that's desirable.

R230 His life will never be normal, choices

R217, Do your own research. Matt Shepard was arrested for sexually abusing young boys as a teenager and despite what his parents claim-they were deeply embarrassed about having a gay pedo drug addict son, so they sent him away and gave him a monthly stipend of money so he would stay away from them. Shepard knew his killers as they all would use meth together and had sex together, and he was murdered to eliminate competition as he sold meth, or for money owed for a large quantity of meth, coke, or heroin that he had bought and used. But despite all of this he did not deserve to be murdered.

R226, I remember when same sex marriage became legal in various states, and DADT (don't ask, don't tell) was repealed how Trans people and nutty trans activists instead of being very happy for us bisexual and gay people having the right to marry and openly serve in the military and be out and not discharged or killed for it, were very angry and on various LGB sites and blogs posted lots of biphobic and homophobic comments.

I thought that the show had been on longer, I guess Jazz has been around in the media.

Sadly, I imagine that Ari and the boys all have friends. Jeron seems desperately lonely and the off putting behavior may be to compensate. Those lips and the exaggerated expressions and the voice are just insufferable though.

Surprised that they did not pay someone to fake date Jazz to make it seem more like a normal teen life, not just Trans Inc. 24/7 cuz there is nothing else. It is so sad. HS and college is when a lot of people make friends they keep for life. Instead, Jazz is quizzing dad on tv about Mom and her labia.

The mom would have Jazz engaged already if Jazz was open to trans boys. These upper middle class parents of trans kids know they will have to arrange marriages between their kids in order to create the illusion of a happy ending.

Does this TV show, film Jazz going to school or is he/she home schooled?

Jazz dropped out of regular school and is doing online school to finish up high school.

Thinking of it now, it looks like the real reason Jazz dropped out of high school was due to the upcoming surgery.

But the parents probably didn't want to frame it that way so they said the dropping out was all due to Jazz's unhappiness at school. They made all this drama about it but they knew Jazz was going to drop out because of the surgery. Realistically, how could Jazz go to high school comfortably after having that type of surgery and then doing all the aftercare that is required? If Jazz couldn't do the surgery and college then high school would also be out of the question.

That's why the family is really full of it.

I think Jazz could have recovered over the summer and returned to school. People go back to work. You can dialate in the morning and evening.

I think Jazz has mental health problems and may be on the autism spectrum - having NO friends among peers probably DID make HS an unhappy experience.

Jazz IS that loud, annoying queen with the exaggerated expressions. Not one thing feminine about his manner or mannerisms, or Jenner either, for that matter. Loud and crass and fish lipped. Shudder. At least Jenner got to experience orgasms before the chop. Jazz preferred not to touch her thingamajig. Even to pee. Dilation may be a struggle for her. How is the mom going to handle her? It seems Jazz basically does or says whatever and they all back off.

With those abused kids stories in the news - the Hart case driving them off the cliff and the starved 13 kids, in both cases weren't the kids controlled ever minute of their lives ? Hasn't the mother done that with Jazz from the "transgender" role starting at three, to no school, to the "Rainbow Kids Foundation" all the media, to "helping out" with the dilation?

R238 maybe some people could do that schedule but not Jazz. No way. I'm wondering if Jazz is still phobic about touching down there which would mean the mom would have to get "hands on". I hope not for Jazz's sake!

I don't think Jazz is autistic. Think back to when the show first started. Jazz had a whole little group of non-transgender girlfriends. The problem is they all disappeared. Jazz also loved to play soccer.

Jazz has become isolated. Most of the friends are now transgender and many of them are screwed-up and/or adults. They all obsess about their transgender status. Often, online life has replaced real life social interaction for Jazz. So it's not surprising that Jazz has become a little odd.

Also, this wasn't the regular surgery. This was an experimental surgery so I think it was planned well ahead that high school was going to take a back seat to the surgery.

Jazz can get fucked and have a colonoscopy in the same mucous hole. (not her nose)

R239, don't forget the mom, er I mean mug cradler who convinced her very young kid he's gay and a drag queen, and that he MUST ALWAYS be the center of attention at school, in public, etc.

I have to wonder how many of these young kids will look back and be completely embarrassed as fuck, about how their parents had them dress up as the opposite sex?

R240 that's crazy, and sounds like child abuse. If Jazz is supposed to be a girl, did the parents put him/her on a girl's football team?

R244 Most will suicide out, research shows. Well, boys/men suicide out, girls/women detransistion

Yes, R245, the parents put Jazz on a girl's soccer team. I think there was a lawsuit over it, too, but Jazz did end up on the team.

If you want to find the family's real last name it's very easy to do, they did not do a good job of concealing it at all, and they are not Asian or Latino at all but are Eastern European.

R248 Jog on, nobody has any interest

It's literally crazy how things have progressed in just 12 years.

From linked article: Nine years ago, a Belgian film, Ma Vie en Rose, explored the most common reaction to a young boy’s decision to live as a girl. In other words, the parents panicked. So did the rest of the neighborhood, who shunned and ridiculed the boy’s family until they felt compelled to move away. In real life, meanwhile, another famous case in 2000 ended even worse. When Zachary Lipscomb’s parents attempted to enroll him as a girl named Aurora in an Ohio school at age six, a state child protection agency took the child away.

Some therapists insist that such children should be discouraged from living as the opposite sex because, they have found, the large majority of such children grow out of it. Studies show that many end up as gay adults. But a growing coalition of therapists, scientists, and activists disagree and refer to such children—even those as young as three years old—as transgendered, insisting that the child’s new identification shouldn’t be discouraged.

Yes. (And that shows you The Village Voice wasn't what it used to be as well).

That' has to be Jazz and her family referenced in R250's article, it sure sounds like it.

R233 Jazz has indeed dated boys, one a trans boy and one a cis boy. The trans date was a huge disaster. She froze him out completely. I think they went rollerskating, and he tried and tried to have a conversation. Jazz would have none of it. I felt so sorry for that kid being humiliated by Jazz on TV.

The straight date ----- can't remember if that was a result of "dating in the dark" or not. At any rate she liked him better, but it never really went anywhere, and she started dating Victoria, the lesbian, shortly thereafter. Also, before either of these dates, she dated a kid from her old school who was a really sweet and good looking kid. He also had a crush on Jazz, and you would think she woul dhave been flattered and happy. But she once again pushed him away.

I am thinking Jazz is SO paralyzed by fear that she does not even want to convey they idea that she is a sexual being. Even that much is distasteful to her.

R240, yes indeed she played on girls' soccer teams. The other parents wanted to prohibit that, and Jazz's dad, the lawyer, sued. And Jazz played on the girls' team. Recently, while trying to lose weight, they showed Jazz playing soccer and holy cow, she is GOOD. So I can understand the other parents not wanting jazz to play with their daughters; she is completely aggressive on the soccer field.

Jazz's siblings are really quite nice. Not affected, not conceited. Not spoiled. They do express resentment occasionally that "What Jazz wants, Jazz gets."

What I find interesting is that the Dad's family apparently want nothing to do with the TV show. Not clear at all if this extends to cutting off ties to the family. They are never mentioned, never shown. It is as though he ceases to exist outside the nuclear family.

There is a backlash building steam. Jordan Peterson is vehemently anti-trans, as are several major internet vloggers and, on the right side, David Shapiro. The basic position of this backlash, consistent no matter what the political affiliation, is: "This is all make believe. Do not expect me to go along with insanity just because you wish it. Sensitivity to pronouns is insane. Gender is biologically determined."

Their unity is impressive.

That old article about the kid made me want to research older articles for clues as to how this started. I have to go to bed soon, but this was from 2005

I think the mother's parents had a lot of misgivings but they didn't want to be banished like the father's family members so they mostly kept quiet.

r253 Based on what you're saying, maybe Jazz, haven't his mother interfered, wouldn't even have been gay. What if he was straight, since he didn't seem to have much chemistry with boys and is now a 'lesbian'. Perhaps that time he wanted to try his mother's shoes (or whatever it was that caused this madness) was just curiosity and, without his mother jumping up to make him a girl, he wouldn't have been transgender at all. Guess we'll never know.

Jazz didn't have any chemistry with the girl and spoke about the whole thing in a very clinical way. Earlier in the show, Jazz was only interested in boys but none were interested in Jazz.

In Jazz's mind, if boys aren't an option then Jazz would rather be with a girl than the least desirable option for Jazz which is a trans boy. The mom was pushing trans boys and Jazz wanted no part of it. Doesn't even really seem to have them as friends either.

Poor kid, I feel like his romantic/sexual life is fucked anyway. Between the isolation from other people his age and the hormones that leave him with no sexual desire apparently and now the surgery, I feel he'd have a very lonely existence.

R191, there are basic skeletal differences between men and women that aren't going to be changed by hormones--the angle of the jawline, the slope of the forehead are two. The shoulder/hip ratio is another. The pelvic bone is, of course, very different, but there are more subtle things, such as the angle and shape of the femur. You can disguise some differences pretty well in a photograph or film, but in real life, the differences in proportion are pretty noticeable--particular the shoulder/hip ratio.

There are broad shouldered narrow hipped cis women and far too many weak shouldered wide - hipped men. It's true that most trans are clockable on somethings, but it's not usually the shoulder hip thing. Here is Trinity The Tuck Taylor. He's not Trans, just a drag queen. His figure is quite womanly. But he's had a lot of dental work as KG would say.

I don't think too much emphasis should be placed on being able to "pass." There is a much more disturbing sociological problem going on. People can now change genders by simple declaration. I feel sorry for Jazz, obnoxious as she is. She's never going to know sexual fulfillment or intimate happiness. It should be illegal to mess with children's bodies this way. Let it be, let her live as a girl. Don't allow children to make adult decisions.

Transitioning minors is this generation's rampant lobotomies / leucotomies.

And it is being done out in the open, celebrated, unlike lobotomies that were a dirty secret.

R262 lobotomies were not a secret, decades ago in the 1950s and 1960s people talked about them, and the same goes for electro-shock therapy.

I don't condone any of that or Trans kids taking hormones and having surgery, because just like a lobotomy and electro-shock therapy it's completely life changing and not necessary.

This is from the linked article below and I agree with all off it.

Society is being engineered in the worst possible way; to view transgender people, especially transgender children, as being completely normal. This is where Jazz Jennings and her reality show come in. I Am Jazz tries to present the family as a normal, happy one that just happens to have a family member who is a biological boy but identifies as a girl. The show is poorly scripted, badly acted, and often comes off as a preachy public service announcement for transgendered people because that’s precisely what it is. In the first episode Jazz’s grandparents stop by and Jeanette (Jazz’s mother) fills them in on Jazz’s hormone therapy as well as the proper and improper terms to use when referring to transgender people. This comes off as laughable because if Jazz has been transgendered since she was about five which her parents claim then wouldn’t her grandparents already be aware of these things?

The other glaringly obvious plot device is that Jazz is always a victim in some way. Jazz’s struggles are bigger than everyone else because she’s transgendered. In fact, no one else in the show seems to have any problems at all. Everyone, from Jazz’s girlfriends to her siblings and parents makes her the center of the universe in every interaction while praising her to the heavens for being so brave in the face of adversity. The goal appears to be to make Jazz, and all other transgendered people, simultaneously the victim and the brave, noble warrior at the same time. Naturally, liberals and progressives applaud this paradoxical freak show because of their own fondness for diametrically opposing ideas along with an aversion to facts or reality.

This you’re-so-brave-because-you’re-a-victim narrative extends itself to all the transgender kids stories found on the website for the TransKids Purple Rainbow Network, a charity aimed at supporting trans kids which was founded by Jazz and her mother when Jazz was seven years old. Every story is a heartbreaking melodrama of hopelessness and despair. At one point, I expected sad violin music to quietly waft from my speakers. Below is a screenshot of the website. Notice how they play up the suicide angle right from the get go.

[quote] lobotomies were not a secret, decades ago in the 1950s and 1960s people talked about them, and the same goes for electro-shock therapy.

A lot of it was secret - it was not talked about with pride and excitement like transkids. It was the stuff of horror movies and things that people did not like to talk about - mental health was not talked about like homosexuality or many things back then. It was absolutely nothing like the cheerleading for transkids. This in on TV on prime-time as a good thing - and for kids. This is being pushed at schools, in kindergarten.

Sadly, preschool, R265. Some parents have lost custody for objecting.

When kids are just allowed to be, most will desist after puberty. Many are gay or lesbian, others are straight. Very few persisit after the hormone influx, thus the push for blockers and the screeching about suicide if they are not used.

Sterilizing young kids is utterly barbaric and cannot be undone. In adults, who desist quickly, and who have gone through puberty, some have been able to go on to become pregnant/impregnate. Other effects, such as facial hair or a low voice in women, even after a short time on T, are likely permanent. The cardio, kidney and MS risks may or may not continue after hormones are stopped.

Hormone therapy has known risks - estrogen risks

Risks of testosterone supplements

Hormone therapy in children was not rigorously studied and found to be safe. This is all off label. The surgery Jazz just had has only been performed a small number of times. The rate of suicide goes UP after transitioning. This is Mengele territory. He also experimented on kids and did T experiments. Hmmm.

Compare this lawsuit being brought by male plaintiffs re lack of labeling re dangers of T therapy to the approach to blockers and hormones for kids. Jazz said she had 3 blockers implanted.

This researcher is actually very sympathetic to T but his proposal caused a global firestorm of blow back.

I agree R266

Do you have a link about preschool and parents losing custody for objecting? I believe you, but would like a link to share with others.

Also: Do you know a site that lists all the problems with this trans push, in terms of health, problems for children, for women's rights, for gay existence?

[I still can't believe this is going on and on.]

Push at preschool level, this woman has appeared on many tv shows that target mothers as an audience

Losing custody

Thanks, R272. I notice that there is a testimonial section and it says: "What an unbelievable inspiration! This kid - and his family - are AMAZING!" - PEREZ HILTON.

Crazy R273. Where are the people who would be fighting government overreach into a person's life? (The health and children advocates are not showing up)

It's so awful. It's doubly awful because you see how many "educated" people do not care.

I know there was another fight with parents in Canada (divorcing, I think); one thought the kid was "trans", the other did not. I forget how it ended.

I think that there was one case in Canada and one in UK where the judge sided with the father in having the boy live and dress as a boy. That makes me a bit uneasy too, so many of us were GNC as kids and this is the legal system enforcing male stereotypes. That said, medical transition should not happen until adulthood.

If the goal is passing, it does not seem to matter as much as you might guess, Jazz is distinctly NOT feminine. Nor does she seem happy, despite being described as happy and confident off the soccer field. Obnoxious and desperately lonely? That I buy.

The true goal is creating as many T as possible, thus desistence is a genuine threat that must literally, be blocked. There was an old thread on the hypno sissy porn vids, wonder where that tech came from? Pull in the kids, pull in the cross dressers and autistic IT guys and convert them to autogyns and you have an army ready to push back on rights and safety of women, gays and children. From another direction, be flooded with those pushing Sharia. You can kind of see where all this is headed.

I agree, R276. And all at the same time. It is sinister.

Chaos and divison

Letting Jazz play soccer at 10 is one thing. Preventing young women from qualifying for college scholarships is another.

Jazz is the family friendly face/distraction from these realities

Yes, I didn't realize that Jazz played a part part in the sports thing as well, with the lawyer father suing to get him on a girl's team. That certainly helped to pave the way for R279 and R278 and the Olympics coming up.

All while seeming sweet, sympathetic, and harmless...

Title IX is being turned on its head. And many of th

And many of the T playing sports seem to have attitudes more in line with MRA activists than natal women.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

This may or may not be off-topic, but it’s about kids and gender. Last night my five year old niece made a clubhouse for girls in one of the bedrooms. Girls only. She came to the grownups, complaining that her brother was trying to come in and it was for girls only. So her dad asked if he’d be allowed in if he put on some lipstick and a dress. And she said no, silly, you’re still a boy. And he asked why not. Because you have short hair. Ah, he said, butyou have short hair, too (it’s a chin-length bob), and you’re a girl. And so on. In the end, she just defended her position by saying “but I know you’re a boy!”

Then I went and made a comment about gender stereotypes and trans, and the topic was changed. But it was interesting to see how clear these things are to neurotypical children.

[quote]And many of the T playing sports seem to have attitudes more in line with MRA activists than natal women.

That is definitely the case with the abusive ones online and the ones attacking lesbians in marches and meetings now.

Yep, R284, that is why they go after the mentally ill and autistic kids, sad.

Allowing all students to wear shorts OR skirts would be gender neutral.

Requiring boys to wear long trousers in the heat or to wear skirts seems to be an agenda.

And a reminder that, the elite, they are not like you or me...

R284, interesting. Back in the day parents used to state such simple facts all the time. "No, you're not wearing a skirt to school, you're a boy. You can play dress up at home, but not at school," "No, you are not a boy, you are a girl." I'm thinking that the vast majority of these so called trans kids just need to be told, "no."

rebels at London Pride!

Click to read the sing (ignore the Trans News propaganda)

This is better. Ignore R288

I meant SIGNS, not sing!

R278, the dad of that son/daughter is a clueless black Muslim with the name Rahsaan. I would not be surprised if he completely supports racist hate groups like black lives matter, and the Nation of Islam.

Jazz often complained on the show about not having any female friends. Whenever he was shown interacting with girls it was very fake and awkward. It was obvious that he was trying to portray what he conceived a girl to be. But it was a massive fail. He is/was a gay boy not a girl.

The whole transwomen athletic thing doesn't make sense to me. First for the obvious reason of taking away scholarships/opportunities for women and girls, but secondly, I know of no older boys or men that even want to compete against women/girls. Through my brother, I know several straight guys who are into sports, some competed at college level, and they don't consider women to be their "competitors." These guys want to win against each other. It has nothing to do with not respecting athletic women, because a few of the guys I know are partnered with women who are also athletic, but they know it's not a fair competition in most cases. The only expectation I know of personally is my brother's best friend from childhood who runs marathons with his wife, and she always has better times than he does, but that simply because she's a far better long distance runner.

There was another sign in that group "Lesbian Not Queer" - you can see at the left. (They tried to kick them out of the parade of course).

I know, what boy jock would be proud to run in a race with girls and beat girls? Are they happy to encourage a cheating sociopath as well as damaging him with trans ideology?

Yeah, not having friend is really bad for Jazz aside from all the psychological and physical harm with the T push. It's all abuse. Remember the family that abused their 13 isolated, starved kids? The son got out for a brief period taking a couple of courses and asked someone if he could be their friend. The mother never brought him back to the school after that. Different methods, same result.

None that I can think of, R294, and I know several. A couple of them have female training partners (for marathon and triathlon), but unless the female is a higher caliber athlete to begin with, it's not a fair competition.

R292, men in drag competing against women in sports is like me playing my 9-year old in Scrabble. It’s not a fair fight and it’s a hollow victory. It’s punching down.

I have an athletic daughter. She used to hang out with boys, and they’d all go to an athletic field at lunchtime and throw around a football. The boys did their best to exclude her and it hurt her feelings. I explained that they didn’t want to be beaten by a girl (at that point she was taller and heavier than any sixth grade boy), and they didn’t want to beat a girl. That wasn’t sporting or fair, and would make them look like they couldn’t compete with their own. They’d play frisbee with her, though.

And since puberty hit, she’s become a lot more “feminine”, but she’s still a badass. My late MIL was a Chanel-suit wearing LADY but she said she used to run barefoot in the woods with her brothers, shooting B.B. guns and arm-wrestling. It’s all very interesting, how nature takes its course.

I'm fine, I send my love!

Get the L Out

PS: They are lying, if you click on it you will see results and photos.

I remember this reality TV show and nowadays they would call it Transphobic.

I think there are some parallels to Jazz, all in service of a larger agenda

T are the vector by which language and by extension thought, will be criminalized.

It is already happening in the US.

If you have not, read 1984 and Brave New World, or at least listen to the broadcast versions on Spotify.

Language is also being robbed of meaning. To wit from the London Gay Pride Parade today: Lesbian = homosexual female" is violence and hate

ORDO AB CHAO is Latin for "Order Out of Chaos or Order from Disorder." First, chaos must be created. T and mass movements of migrants worldwide is a means to an end.

R259: There are very few reliable differences between the male and female skeleton, except in cases of very large men. The pubic bone? no. It is only definitive in identifying a female skeleton if the woman has had children, as the pubic symphysis often breaks during childbirth. The jaw musculature in males is usually way bigger than in females and the sites of attachment can be used to identify male. But honestly, there are not reliable differences.

R291: Jazz has nothing but female friends. Some from several years ago, some from her more recent rainbow crap, but no male friends that I can recall. Interestingly, there was one straight boy from her old school who was definitely interested in her as a girl, and they even went on a date to a butterfly house at the end of the first season.

Oh and recently, I discovered the dad's facebook page and he has links to a number of family members from his side of the family. I get the impression that they are still close, but absolutely refusing the publicity. So maybe they are ok with the trans stuff, but not the being on TV stuff.

R303 most of Jazz's friends are now males (though they present as females).

The friends that were actually female dropped out of the picture earlier in the show's run though Jazz did keep one I think. Jazz doesn't like girls who present as male so they are not in the picture much.

Otherwise, it's all male friends.

R303 you've pointed out something really significant. Jazz doesn't really have any female friends despite having met a lot of people through the show.

That kind of characterizes the whole transgender movement. The lack of interaction with actual females. It's very different from the gay movement.

Excellent point, R306, the misogyny is astounding.

The parents have done Jazz/Jeron NO favors

At least Jazz has it all on tape when it's time for the lawsuit.

R303, sorry, but you're wrong. A female femur is angled and has a larger knob on its upper end than a male femur. It's actually easy to tell. The pelvis and its proportion to the rest of the skeleton is another easy tell. Both the angled femur and the knob were compensations for the wider pelvis which human females developed in order to give birth to large-headed babies. There are also differences in the angles of the elbow join--making it easier for women to carry (most likely) their ridiculously helpless young, but harder to shoot arrows without getting scratched.

The forehead angle is noticeable enough that you can use it to tell the difference between a male and female brain in an anatomy lab. The difference in the jaw angle/line is enough that it's one of the ways you can identify an XY female with AIS.

So, I don't know where you got your erroneous information, but I studied paleoanthropology--knowing this stuff is paleoanthro's bread and butter. It's all quite apparent, by the way, when you handle specimans--more so than looking at a picture.

"From linked article: Nine years ago, a Belgian film, Ma Vie en Rose, explored the most common reaction to a young boy’s decision to live as a girl. In other words, the parents panicked."

I think that's still the most common reaction. No doubt, there's more parents who are on the trans train and it certainly gets more positive press. But, really, if you were to actually poll ALL the parents whose kids wanted to live as the opposite sex, I think the overwhelming majority would still be panicked. Some might move from that panicked stage to acceptance, but even them I think the majority would have a negative reaction. Don't let the incredibly vocal minority fool you.

ETA: I'm talking about homo sapiens here--not all species have these differences, but humans do. There are a lot of physical adaptions humans made in order to pull off intelligence.

R309! Kudos on finding a silver lining!

R305, 306! Excellent points! I hadn't thought of it, but of course you are right. She has 2 born female friends, one of whom is the lesbian girlfriend, Victoria. (There was a bizarre friendship last season with some girl who was a plant, and it was cringe-worthy having her there. Can't remember her name. A singer from some talent competition show.) All of her other friends are M2F teens. That could just be her seeking understanding from friends with identical outlooks on life. But it is strange I think that she now has virtually no non-trans friends.

When the show started, they went to great efforts to highlight that Jazz was a girl like any other girl in her group at school and they frequently forgot that she is not a biological girl. (I personally find that a stretch; come on, these teen girls are going to completely forget that Jazz has a penis?)

R310, I would acquiesce to your superior knowledge of paleoanthropology and evolving skeletal differences. But I have taught human morphology in medical school, have done research on the genetics of patterning in embryonic development, and I am here to tell you there is no reliable means of determining male from female skeletons. The ball of the femur is NOT reliably larger in females than in males and while it is true that females have a different angle in the tangent of hip to knee, that is not related to bones, that is ligament and musculature. If you handed any anatomist a femur of average size and ask that anatomist (or paleo anthropologist) to determine if that femur belongs to a male or female, they might wager a guess, but definitively identify? No. Bigger brain cases and bigger brains are found in bigger people. You should know that the very misogynistic idea that males brains are reliably larger than female brains has long ago been debunked. But as a consistent, predictive (and note I am talking about the ranges of sizes of these structures which which can span considerable ranges, with overlaps at extremely large females and smaller males) marker? No, that does not work. The slope you identify in the forehead (and the brow line) is very obvious in older hominids but not in modern humans --- certainly not as a predictive feature or diagnostic marker.

I know what you are referring to as general principles, but pathologists and forensic specialists would not be confident making the claims you are making.

R313, If you really taught morphology at a medical school, you'd know I wasn't talking about the size of the human brain male v. female, but the actual shape. You'd know that there are indications on the bone as to how a ligament attaches. And, yes, of course the angle is related to the bone. We haven't grown less sexual dimorphic by the way, if anything, sexual dimorphism has increased slightly in our species, though it's not extreme.

And, yes, a paleanthropologist (it's one word, by the way) could positively identify (as much as one does) a female v. a male skeleton. Being able to do so is something on which students are tested. (I still remember the endless labs on fossilized molars.) It's just not that hard. I'm not sure why you're pretending otherwise. I mean I have an MD friend who knows less about the evolution of teeth than I do, but if you're teaching morphology, I'd have thought you'd know that sexual dimorphism goes far beyond allometric differences.

Yes, I really have taught morphology to medical students. And graduate students too, and yes, even art students who took the course in order to be able to draw human figures better. WE can argue all night, but I think you are full of shit, and you clearly think I am. Gets us no where.

I could go into all the reasons I think you are pulling stuff out of your ass, but what's the point?

Have a good night.

Jazz has a vagina so they'll know she's a girl if she's ever a corpse.

R314 sounds more believable to me though I'm no expert. I've haven't heard of many cases where law enforcement/anthropologists haven't been able to identify the sex of skeletal remains.

How is it that one of the first things forensics identify when they find human remains (bones) is their gender then?

R317 Agree, R315 is full of shit

Because DL, when people identify remains now, they do it molecularly. They isolate DNA. They do NOT do it on the size of the head of the femur, or any of this other bullshit.

You can't always get a decent DNA sample from an ancient fossil, R320. So, no, it's not all done from DNA and DNA doesn't tell you things about how well a species moved or how old it was.

But, here's a decent explanation of how you can tell a male pelvis from a female pelvis. There's a picture on the bottom.

It's interesting that being able to tell sex by bone structure is a flash point now. No, no one passes on the skeletal level. Sorry.

R320 Nobody is buying what you are selling, Liar McLiarface

So is the “you don’t determine sex by looking at bones” person one of those science deniers?

She probably would have been more attractive as a boy.

True, R324. Jeron could also have had orgasms, reproduced, and would not be looking at an early death due to cancer.

R310 that's very true that a woman's body and skeleton are designed for giving birth. Even the rare women (by women I mean actual biological women) who are unable to give birth because they were born without ovaries, or a uterus, etc. still have a body and skeleton designed for giving birth.

R325 apparently the only thing Jazz has used his/her penis for is peeing!? According to his/her recent youtube video about the surgery and how he/she will "miss peeing standing up".

Jeron did not touch it then, either. Hands free!

T

R327 I would have thought that peeing standing up would be upsetting for someone who has gender/body dysphoria. That it would be a daily reminder that they have male body parts.

Thanks R310, I'm not an anthropologist but a 52 yo woman with knee problems. I've learned we are twice as likely to get them due in part to what you describe -- our pelvises and how our femurs are angled. I know a forensic anthropologist who said it's pretty easy to distinguish men from women -- even really old bones.

r141, I love you.

This LADY has a huge honker of a nose, wants to be a woman, yet that is the one thing she embraces. Gotta love this ho.

R323, I don't know what that poster was--but certainly not someone who was an expert on human anatomy. I don't even know why you'd dig yourself into a hole on this one. It's not news that women give birth--shouldn't be a surprise that the skeleton's adapted to do this.

R330, yeah, combining bipedal locomation and large-headed babies results in an evolutionary compromise. Men are better designed for walking than women, but nature doesn't care as long as the women manage to carry and squeeze out the rugrats. And then haul them around a while. The other interesting thing about humans compared to other species is how helpless their infants are and for how long. The newborn of other mammals tend to be (very roughly) at the development stage of an 18-month-old human--able to walk pretty quickly.

But anyway, Jazz's skeleton will be odd--male in appearance, but early fused bones. The faux-vagina won't fool anyone since actual vaginas are tube-shaped muscles attached to other organs. Female reproductive systems are complicated. I'm sure someone is working on it, but making an MtF pregnant is way more complex than transplanting a uterus (which is complicated and pointless enough.)

I thought the same thing, R329, but Jeron is an odd duck. Likes the thingamajig as long as it does not need to be touched.

Someone asked for resources, here are some ideas. Mayday4Women can also be financially support on their Patreon. They need money to print the flyers that causes such a stir at Pride yesterday.

We are not in Free To Be You and Me land anymore, Toto

.........

So has (never to) Jizz updated how dilating is going? How much discharge? Is the colostomy working?

One of the surgeon's she consulted said she would probably be able to reach orgasm through her prostate. Did they move that to her front hole rectum vagina too?

The thing about Jazz's nose is that is s/he had not transitioned and been put on puberty blockers, his jaw would have lengthend and overall face would have been bigger. The nose would still be large, but it would have been more in proportion with the rest of Jazz's features. Sounds like everyone was very, very aggressive about the use of puberty blockers and hormones because there was this fear of Jazz developing any masculine characteristics whatsoever. I mean, with those shoulders, the kid could have used a little more height.

It really is pretty demented to deny this child adolescence and any kind of genuine sexual maturity.

So brave!

This has really taken off-- I think because it's a way for parents to control (and even curtail) their child's sexuality and Independence. You know how afraid parents are of their kids' sexuality--it's the subconscious basis for many horror movies, like The Exorcist and Halloween--often with good reason. The child often goes off into his own world, and sometimes becomes very wild- no matter how much of a "friend" the parent tries to be. This way, the parent is in charge every step of the way and hormones are diluted, sex organs dismembered. And sexuality becomes an entirely cosmetic thing, not a drive.

I think that's the case with Jazz, R341, I don't think it's the case with every kid who's trans. I know a couple of cases with young adolescent girls where it was an unpleasant surprise to the parents (to put it mildly). That's the scenario you see on 4th Wave Now--you basically get a ton of 12-13-year-olds getting on the Internet and trying on identities. *None* of them are ever just straight--even if they never do anything but sleep with guys. It's not cool or attention-getting.

I do know of a younger girl who's socially transitioning. She falls into the baby dyke category--very smart, always a tom-boy--so now she's going around with a boy's name. Hope hormones are avoided so she has a chance at figuring out who/what she is.

Jazz is just so flamboyant and annoying his mannerisms and speech. He would have been a great theater boy, now he's a sexless, fat eunuch.

Rest in peace Jazz's penis, we hardly knew you, and your owner did not either!

Who will wang me now?

R337, does Transitioning and having full SRS/sex change surgery involve all of that?!

Remember these two?

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[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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It is good if they are getting "reversals," but there is something about that term that doesn't quite communicate what has happened or will happen. A body is not a reversible raincoat.

Same with"top surgery." All the language around T is so twisted.

[quote]We simply can't criticize it without reigniting criticism of gays as mentally ill, unnatural, etc. Only straight parents and health professionals will curtail this trend.

That's a ridiculous parallel, gays don't chop their nuts off.

This is how its done. OUCH!

R353, WE know it is not the same, but you can bet if the idiots ever admit to the mistake about T being anything but insanity or a fetish, than they will say, duh, maybe homosexuality is mental illness, too. In their minds, they are linked together. And the letters LGBT do not help, either.

"penile disassembly"

This thread makes me feel more normal and sane than anything in all my years of therapy. I also must say that when the NYT runs an article on a t-female who calls himself a "woman," the comments are at least 80% women (maybe of a certain age) who resent their right to use the word "woman."

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lol, R358!

Jazz is very immature for a 17-year old. Can't imagine how Jazz is dealing with the aftermath of the surgery.

Also, I really hope the surgery wasn't filmed.

From the article at r349

[quote] 'A transgender woman has reached womanhood by the arduous path of achievement rather than by accident of nature. Those who climb Mount Everest have a greater claim to winning that peak than someone accidentally dropped there by helicopter.’

Yeah, real women have it so easy in this society... Also how can this freak say he has 'a greater claim' to womanhood (whatever that's supposed to mean) he doesn't know what it is growing up as a girl, the expectations, the fears, the 'rules of behavior', the period, pregnancy, give birth,etc. No matter how many surgeries he goes through he'd never get the full experience of being a real women.

[quote] Sam said she threw herself into trying to be ultra-feminine when she transitioned the first time. She said: 'In the end I felt confined by a different set of expectations'

You don't say...

Infuriating, R361.

It reeks of sexual imperialism--kind of the way I kept hearing about Edmund Hillary, but not Tenzing Norgay climbing Everest when I was a kid. Native women don't count.

What kind of a name is Jazz?

They're trying to erase LGB history and now they want to claim what? that they're 'better' women too? I'm starting to think that's true what some people here say, at the end of the day they're just men against women, invading women spaces, some of them even being violent against them.

They never wanted to be just a woman, they feel they're superior than them.