By Treason of Insanity (The Mueller Investigation Part 14)

Link to previous thread for reference.

Rick Gates to plead guilty. Mueller enters a plea deal into the record.

This flip flopping by Gates...was it to get a better deal or just about separating his legal team from Manafort's?

Love the title and the opening post, OP! Good job.

Well. Now we're getting somewhere. Gates pleads guilty to "crimes against the United States." That. Is. Heavy. That is some Serious. Shit.

R3: News broke recently that Gates was cooperating. That never changed.

Can you please provide a link for this so-called flip-flopping? I am looking forward to the link and getting to the bottom of this confusion.

r6...For people who dont follow this saga religiously, one would assume Gates was flip flopping according to MSM reports lately....i.e...new charges means the plea is off, etc. You have to be careful....every news source is looking for the "big story", so they jump to conclusions and offer opinion instead of facts.

Whoa.

I know in my heart there was direct vote-switching.

Hillary won. I mean, she won the popular vote by 4 million, we already know that.

She also won the electoral college.

Poor little pudgy Ricky. He needed all that Russian money to afford the chin implant he's dreamed of for years. Now he's gonna wind up in the clink bending over for his big mean cellmate. What a tradegy! (NOT a typo.)

“Crimes Against the United States.”

What is the legal definition of treason?

Can they add the trolls here at DL to the indictment charges??

Because I HAVE A LIST!!

"for people who dont follow this saga religiously, one would assume Gates was flip flopping according to MSM reports lately....i.e...new charges means the plea is off, etc. You have to be careful....every news source is looking for the "big story", so they jump to conclusions and offer opinion instead of facts."

but that was never reported in the MSM. That is why I was requesting a link. There were no news reports that he changed his mind.

This is crazy because it is being repeated but was never reported anywhere.

More indictments against Manafort this afternoon. Paying off European politicians to vote for pro Ukraine policies

Keep those indictments coming Mr.Mueller!

Shall we take bets - Who will get to Manafort first? The Russian Assassin or Mueller?

Paul-y must be crapping his pants

R13, Tad Devine did that too, along with Manafort.

Fuck posters who say we cannot discuss Bernie Sanders’ own likely treachery in this thread. His campaign fucking manager Tad is Manafort’s best friend, and it is absolutely relevant to the systematic hacking of the 2016 Primary and General Election.

I’ll keeo talking about Jill Stein as well. I believe she started the recount in order to have deniability to cover up her own crimes. Possibly in order to physically cover up her own crimes, post hoc.

Cannot wait to see Bernie & Jill stein exposed!

Excellent title, OP. I have been waiting for a major story to break today, but the day is still (somewhat young).

The stench of treason is all over these people. And the people are starting to smell it. Finally.

Fuck off, troll at r15. This continuing thread is about Mueller's investigation of Trump's campaign. Start your own fucking thread about Sanders/Stein. See how much traffic you get!

Interesting insight from Rick Wilson re Manafort's dicey situation.

I’m a troll, R19? I want to discuss Manafort’s treason. Stein is part of it and so is Sanders. Manafort’s former business partner, responsible for throwing the Ukraine election to a Putin appointee, is Tad Devine.

I am also the person who started posting these treason threads in the first place.

Why on earth don’t you want Manafort’s multiple treasons in Ukraine discussed? Mueller is discussing them at least, even if you close your eyes and shout la-la-la.

No indictments against that saucy little Carter Page yet?

R12, it caused a lot of confusion for more than a few news outlets when it was reported that Gates had or was about to fire the attorney negotiating the deal. Later stories showed the information was false. Here's an example of what was out early Thursday morning.

And here's a story from his lawyer telling everyone it was fake news. Sorry if I confused anyone by saying he had been flip flopping like a landed trout.

[quote]No indictments against that saucy little Carter Page yet?

Rumors floating on the Twitter machine that Carter Page *could* possibly be a double agent for the FBI.

No Collusion! No Collusion!

Ha! Can't you just picture Carter Page walking into a room and saying, "H-hey guys, what are we talking about? The various treasons we’ve committed either separately or various combinations. Don’t let me stop you. F-feel free to speak. Let me just put this completely innocent looking b-briefcase on the desk here..."

Mueller has his canary, now he just has to sing.

Carter page as a double agent would be a HOOT!

Remember, Paul Manafort was at Don jrs Trump Tower meeting with the Russians.....So you know Gates knows the details to what went on. The white house and Trumps constant denials this has nothing to do with Trump are delusional.

I would happily watch a weekly comedy called "Carter Page: Master Spy!"

I’m with you R31! He’d make Maxwell Smart look like Einstein! Bring it on!

It would be a short lived series that dudes a moron. I'm going to become the Nicolle Wallace show because it is such a fun indictment on Trump. I mean they just rip him to shreds. She mentioned that nobody works for free there is always a price. And if you don't think Trump asked him his price or what the quid pro quo is? Of course he knows everything that Manafort is connected to and was a stooge for Russia. Trump bought into because he is compromised as well.

I love Nicolle's character in GAME CHANGE.

Everyone in this WH lies.

Everyone in this WH has committed at least one crime.

Everyone in this WH leaks.

At this point, virtually everyone in this WH is wearing a wire.

So Rosenstein warned the WH 2 weeks ago that Kushner wouldnt be getting his security clearance anytime soon.....he was named in Flynns indictment as a high ranking official.....

Kyle Griffin ‏ Verified account

@kylegriffin1 6m6 minutes ago More Kyle Griffin Retweeted Kyle Griffin "Kushner’s actions during the transition have been referenced in the guilty plea of... Michael Flynn... Prosecutors said Flynn was acting in consultation with a senior Trump transition official, whom people familiar with the matter have identified as Kushner."Kyle Griffin added,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That footage of Manafort today walking into the street and to his car cracks me up. MSNBC keeps showing it on a loop. Everything about it amuses me; his prissy little gait, his weird tan coat.

This must be the easiest case in Mueller's life. Trump cronies are more pathetic than the Keystone Cops.

So as I understand it Kushner's clearances are delayed because of "additional concerns that merit further investigation..." Hah!! Jared you may as wel learn KArate although that won't help you in Prison you tasty morsel!!

As for Gates, he had a plea deal pending. then he got his chance to tell the everything. Except he LIED. Again. So they called off the deal and slapped him with all kinds of charges. So he thought about it and said fuck Paul Manafort, I'm going to take the deal. That's why it looked like a flip flop. Gates wanted to deal, but the dumb ass lied. How dumb i he t believe he could get away with lying to Mueller. So Mueller is the one who called off the deal. Then Gates said, "OK. I'll stop lying and plead guilty and let's make a deal." But you better believe that once he lied while attempting to negotiate a deal, Mueller was going to extract his pound of flesh before he agreed to any deals. So Gates pled guilty to conspiracy against the United States. Damn.

Today was the first day I felt that prickly feel of excitement making the hair stand up on my neck. You can see it in the pundit's faces that they are just giddy.

But I'm sure Trump did, too. So get ready for some reckless moves by Trump. Obviously due to leaks his posse knew this devastating past week was going to go down. That's why they are not releasing any plans for the weekend (hunkering down with lawyers?).

Omarosa to testify? Or will they know she's an unreliable witness?

According to her, she practically ran the place.

Omarosa... a legend in her own mind....

Interesting. Manafort's statement indicates he is obviously pissed off big time at Gates. Gates was his protege and...his fall guy. YOu better believe that Manafort would have shit all over Gates if he could have. So Gates is losing nothing by turning on him.

R15. Most definitely.

Gates and Manafort are both up shits creek without a paddle now.

"crimes against the United States" Ouch.

Can you imagine what Manafort is going through right now? He ran in the darkest, shadiest circles in the world. Just read his daughters' texts. He personally made and lost hundreds of millions. He changed the course of history in places like Ukraine. And now? Sitting as a prisoner at home and facing a grim and impossible choice; what must it be like to be him? Is he regretting it? Does he think he can still get away with it?

Yes R40, my dick got hard all week thinking about what is transpiring. For once, I see a light in the tunnel. Yippee.

Kyle Griffin ‏ Verified account

10/5 Papadopoulos pleads guilty

10/30 First Manafort+Gates charges

12/1 Flynn pleads guilty

2/16 Charges against 13 Russians, 3 Russian entities; Pinedo pleads guilty

2/20 van der Zwaan pleads guilty

2/22 New Manafort+Gates charges

2/23 Gates pleads guilty, new Manafort charges

So is Griffin suggesting there’s an avalanche on its way?

Omarosa wasn't an insider regarding collusion and cover-up. But better believe she observed WH traffic, was told gossip, and disliked certain people that others did as well. She may have observed some things and could verify some things that need additional confirmation. She could have done nothing in the WH and survived if she minded her own business. Kelly probably viewed her as having a contrary attitude, was often not showing discretion, and knew too much funny-business to allow her to stay. By humiliating and firing her, it is easier to claim later she is not credible.

Oh my gosh this is making me so excited I have to poop.

What happens if he just pardons each and every one of them. Then GOP holds the House. If the blue wave fails, he will get away with all of it. Then win in 2020.

r52....Do keep up Dear.....Mueller is working with NYAG Schneiderman.....if Trump pulls any shit, State charges will get them.

There's something about Manafort that reminds me of Bernie Madoff. Last night Rachel Maddow was describing the frantic activity that Manafort and Gates engaged in to falsify records and commit bank fraud with loans etc. in 2014, 2015 and 2016, leading them right into the Trump orbit. Interesting that Gates was also the liaison to the RNC during the campaign, and then the platform committee changed the Ukraine position. I have to wonder if Reince Priebus is the next domino to fall.

If Manafort ever accepts a plea deal, I would imagine he would have to be kept in a safe house?

Safe house with a food taster!

Obviously Manafort was selling influence with Trump to Russian Oligarchs. He needed the money. He probably earned a big payoff from Putin for getting Trump elected.

R46 - I don’t any of us has a clue as to what Manafort is thinking now.

I mean - high performing narcissist? Psychopath? How can anyone who doesn’t share his particular pathology have a clue what goes on in his evil little skull...

One thing’s for sure though: sitting comfortably in his plush home - is gonna be as good as it gets now. And he’ll probably look back at this interlude nostalgically someday...

Just look at the possibilities of what lie ahead:

Long federal jail sentence

Long state jail sentence

Being murdered (quickly) by agents of Putin/trump - who try to make it look like suicide

Being murdered (slowly) by agents of Putin/trump (polonium or thallium or something) - as a warning to anyone considering ratting them out

Murder of various family members by agents Putin/tump as a warning to anyone considering ratting them out

Actual suicide

I really think him trying so hard to be allowed out on bail and not confined to home was because he had some hope of an escape plan being put into play. But even if he did head to Russia - can you imagine his life there would be a bed of roses?

Still - at least he’d be alive. For a while. Maybe.

I really have my doubts he’ll ever be brought to trial. A lot of really desperate, really rich, powerful people do not want that to happen. Guess we’ll see...

Shit.....they have a list of items Manafort has to forfeit at sentencing......4 houses, multiple bank accounts, etc......I wonder what else there is that the family gets to keep.....you know they wont be destitute.

I hope you're right R53. I still don't think it will touch Trump himself. Test will ultimately election results. And you surely understand how much crazy games are played in rural precincts. No supervision. Total cheats. No media. No nothing. That big rural turnout was total fiction.

Didn’t Manafort get in trouble for writing a newspaper article or something after he was indicted?

LOLOL! Hell, Manafort couldn't even make bail. He offered a house he no longer owned.

Trump became a Putin / Russian asset way before 2016 in exchange for credit loans nobody else would grant Trump. Manafort was, is a middleman between Putin's assets and Putin himself. Putin has a lot of assets doing his bidding / serving their purpose to further his personal agenda.

I hope they can prove it in a way that sweeps in Dem majority in House.

Connections to Vlad Putty may be getting messages to Manafort to stay quite or else......

PM is mixed-up with some dangerous international types and may owe some of them them big money. He's in a hellava mess.

r65....You have to understand that the terms of the conspiracy are layed out before its put into action.....Its made very clear what the consequences are for disloyalty. Manafort doesnt need to be reminded. Im a little concerned regarding Gates though, he has a young family, and Im sure he fears something will happen to them.

Trump is the King of Disloyalty demanding his subjects to be loyal to him. I bet he will be really, really surprised when he finds out that his loyal subjects aren't as loyal as he expected them to be and not impressed with his (empty) pardon promises.

Just wondering - without googling and having to read various federal and/or state legislation:

So - what are the terms of manfort’s home detention?

I mean - he gets to go outside into the yard I assume! - but while he’s under detention - does he get to use phones - both landline and cell - and internet? Assuming tv and radio are a given!

And if he does have phone/wifi accss - why? Assume it’s all monitored? So no on working for Russia/Trump would try and communicate like that...?

Visitor access? Mail? How would any foreign agent make contact?

Just curious. And I've written this before on these and other political threads. Although there hasn't been enough evidence revealed, in my heart, (and my obsessively going thru the election tallies of every state the day after the election), I believe Hillary Clinton legitimately won the Presidency, including the Electoral College. Had she gotten PA, WI, and Florida, it would have been considered the "landslide" Trump keeps attributing to his "victory". ... I'm not a huge Hillary fan, and although I think she was excessively qualified and might have made a terrific president, her losing didn't traumatize me the way Trump's "winning" did.

But who else truly believes she legitimately won, and someday it will be revealed?

I'm not a tin-foil hat guy, but I'd suspect that if there ever were proof that actual vote counts were hacked and that Clinton truly HAD won the electoral vote as well, the general public would never be made aware of it.

I'm sure Manafort is, right this very second, devising a brilliant scheme to communicate with his Russian colleagues that Mueller will never figure out, not in a million years! I’m equally sure Mueller's already figured it out.

r70, Are there any recent polls and reports about the general US population's trust the election / voting process? It is odd that the media doesn't seem to bring that up (at least I am not aware of it). Almost like they are too afraid to bring this up.

R70, R69 here. I suspect you're right. But would know that information? Do they know now? Does Obama know? Does the FBI know? Someone like Malcolm Nance, would he have heard thru sources but is unable to reveal what he's heard?

In that sense, maybe there really is a sort of deep state. (just NOT the one Limbaugh and Hannity keep pushing).

Are there any recent polls and reports about the general US population's trust IN the election / voting process?

Sorry for missing the "in".

I can only imagine all the cloak and dagger communication scenarios Manafort is involved in, convinced that nobody is aware of them.

"Does [Manafort] think he can still get away with it?"

Yes, r46; yes, he does. By flight; by pardon; or by suicide. Pays yer money, takes yer choice.

Hillary was eminently qualified and more so. I get very tired of the “I didn’t like Hillary much but...” bullshit we’ve been subjected to since the election. She was further to the left than NRA-loving, Iraq-enabling (x4 votes), HIV and Planned Parenthood-shaming, fascist-supporting (Putin) Sanders.

Anyway, I study statistics. I believe she won Florida and Pennsylvania.

I also know it will be revealed. And then fuck off to the “flawed candidate (read: no penis)”, “white working class” narrative and memes pushed by Bernie Sanders and his apologists since the election, including by homophobes like Tulsi Gabbard. Clinton beat Sanders by a landslide (despite Putin propping him up, as per Mueller’s indictment last month) and Clinton beat Trump by a landslide, too — both electorally and by the popular vote.

last month = last week

[quote] Poor little pudgy Ricky. He needed all that Russian money to afford the chin implant he's dreamed of for years. Now he's gonna wind up in the clink bending over for his big mean cellmate

Maybe that new chin will get him a better quality daddy.

I think we need to keep an eye on those rural precincts. Everytime they accuse Dems of voter fraud, I wonder what fraud they are perpetrating.

"Can you imagine what Manafort is going through right now?"

He's such a fascinating character. He comes-off as "jovial upper-class dad" but he's this diabolically amoral thief, cheat and liar. Absolutely addicted to money and luxuries, and would do anything for it.

Yet... looking at his face as he exits this building and that, it reminds me of Trump: they still totally think they are going to emerge unscathed. They always have- why wouldn't they? And if by some miracle they did, they would go right back to dirty dealing. No guilt. No morals. no shame.

No. Soul.

r81, Also true for the Criminal Family Kushner.

Manaforte strikes me as someone who graduated from the mafia into international oligarchy.

Well done, R81. Manafort is a great character.

You just know Nathan Lane wants to play Manafort in the upcoming Ryan Murphy series about all this.

Too bad Frances Bavier is no longer with us.

Paul Manafort's hair / dye job is endlessly fascinating to me. Does he do it himself?

I think it’s one of those million dollar oriental rugs he’s so fond of buying.

R77, R69 here. Love your post. Also sick of the "flawed candidate" narrative. Assuming as you and I do that the tallies WERE manipulated, it still has Trump winning by only 78,000 votes. Which means Hillary was "this close". So that narrative still doesn't tread water. I also wonder if Hillary is as in the dark as the rest of us, or if she knows a lot more but is unable to say. If the votes really were stolen and the FBI knows, you'd think Bill Clinton has some old intel buddy who would confide it to him.

Because it should be mentioned in every one of thse threads:

[quote]Yes. There's already proof. I work in the industry. I sat in a meeting with the head of cyber security investigations for the FBI in Florida. Their systems were hacked in 2016. What's difficult is proving that (or more accurately stated "how") the votes were manipulated. But go back to election night and remember how Trump pulled ahead in Florida, NC, MI, PA and WI. It happened almost like clock work once the precincts reporting crossed the 50% threshold. This shit is deep. Putin had already done this in his own election and also in Ukraine. We should be very worried about the EU elections coming up.

R89, Hillary knows. She was considering making it public before she conceded that terrible morning after, but bowed to concede “for the good of the country”.

I hope we will live to see the day she is acknowledged as the 45th President-Elect of the United State. That’s what the history books will say, anyway. A tragedy in every sense, and the shame is Trump’s, Sanders’, Stein’s and most of all Putin’s.

I believe Hillary legitimately won the Presidency too. I believe she won not only to popular vote, but the Electoral college vote. I believe Michigan, Wisconsin, and Florida, PA and Ohio need a major investigation. I know Michigan. it's where I live. They want to say Jill Stein took away Hillary's votes. They want to say Trump won by 11,000 votes. That is complete bullshit, OK? No way did Stein win that many votes. It just did not happen.

I have contended that the Russian hackers were very smart, they were guided and assisted by people here who know how this works. It is much easier to make it look like Stein took Hillary's votes, than to take those votes from Hillary and give them to Trump. That would have been too obvious and they wanted to protect Trump. Now with Stein all the pundits can look at it and say, "Oh, look, so that's what happened,Jill Stein." That looks suspiciously like Ralph Nader in 2000....except Jill Stein is no Ralph Nader.

First we heard our government admit that Russians "attempted to" hack the votes but did not succeed. Then, time passes, and we hear they did succeed in getting into the voting rolls. but "only" in 21 states. Finally we have heard that the hacking "was more widespread than we previously knew..." and there were more states. But they were quick to say "we have no evidence that the outcome of the election was altered."

BULLSHIT. and it will come out. It will. It will come out soon. The fact is, Putin didn't hire dozens of people and set up a Troll factory operation, send people to the United States to do recon, train people on how to "sound American" and set up false bank accounts and fake Identities, and massive social media campaigns and rallies, and invest millions of dollars and Russia did all of that, and hook up with the NRA in 2015, and lay his plans at least 5 years in advance only to risk losing an election.

Putin had to guarantee the outcome. And Trump knew it. That's why he kept talking about a rigged election. Telling people he would not concede because the election would have to be rigged, for him to lose, etc. He was doing what he always does. He was projecting. Accusing the Dems of doing exactly what he was doing. Putin laid out an elaborate plot. He intended to win. He intended to make Donald Trump President. His puppet.

Look at how Manafort spread Russian money around after the Ukraine election. He even paid off former elected officials all over Europe including former chancellors of countries to get them to support the criminal Pro Putin "president" of the Ukraine. Even to justifying the imprisonment of his political opponent. Putin wanted Trump elected. To him it was a game. Trump was working with his own people, an group of amateurs, and then Manafort got on the Trump merry go round to give a certain professional polish to the scheme . These indictments are about a conspiracy to defraud the United states and obstruct the functioning of our elections. That come right from former US Attorney Barbara McQuaid. Now if those a re the charges, then defrauding and obstructing directly goes to altering the outcome.

Sorry, R69, R91 was me, R77.

I think you're right, R92. I thought it was suspicious that in the last few days of the campaign, Trump suddenly turned his attention to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. Even the media was puzzled why he was focusing on them. Hillary was leading in all three. Then surprise, surprise! Those just happen to be the states Trump unexpectedly won. I have no doubt that last minute push in those states was done to provide cover and plausibility for his surprising "win". And they had North Carolina and Florida as a Plan B in case something went wrong in the Midwest.

HAHAHAHAHAHA......

The un-named congressman mentioned in Rick Gates indictment turns out to be ....wait for it.......Dana Roherbacher......the pro Russian asshole........Mueller has them ALL in his sights.......

R91 "Hillary knows. She was considering making it public before she conceded that terrible morning after, but bowed to concede “for the good of the country”.

Is that (heavy) conjecture on your part? I would assume it has to be, (no offense). But if you can, elaborate further... even if it is mostly theory. I suspect you're right but I can't figure out the mechanics. Thanks.

It’s conjecture, but I also once read an online post by someone present describing that as well (with no way to verify it, either).

R95 Dana is just the first of many corrupt Republican Congressmen to go down for this.

In proving vote tampering/fraud, the FBI will need witnesses that can identify the culprits. Going by "this looks fishy" is a theory or a suggestion there was grand hanky-panky, but not necessarily proof. There would need to be technical people on the ground to manipulate the machines; or if it was done somehow largely from Moscow or St. Petersburg, it would take some incredible sophistication, particularly keeping the activity from being dicovered in certain precincts due abnormalities in tabulations. What is known, via Facebook and other platforms, the Ruskies zeroed in on certain states and regions with provocative ads and disinformation. If any U.S. citizens were nabbed for machine/tabulation tampering, that would be huge. Caught tampering operative would know others who were part of the conspiracy. Those 13 Russians that were indicted could have had the ringleaders among them. They were operating in the U.S. for the large part. They would have to recruit American operatives. The obvious path would be to go through state Republican Party operations that naturally are involved in the election apparatuses of the targeted states. Wisconsin and Florida are two states with Governors on down, with powerful politicians that control much, and network with those that have access to voter counting processes. Some may have been unknowingly deceived in taking part. They just have to find willing cheaters for secret pay; big pay at that.

....

This has many tentacles. Let us not forget the Flynn/ Turkey connection and the Wilbur Ross/ Bank of Cypress connection. Such espionage!

it's very easy to alter the outcome of an election. especially if you don't use paper ballots. It is very easy to hack into a system and alter a vote, it looks like a mistake. All you need to do is alter a few dozen votes or less, per precinct. Look at it this way. Trump "won" the electoral college vote by 77,000 votes in three states. There were more than 135 Million votes cast. In Michigan he won by 10,704. In Wisconsin 27, 257 votes separated Trump & Clinton but Johnson, of all people got more than 106,000 votes. Jill Stein go 30,000. Nearly 4, Million total votes were cast in Wisconsin.

In Michigan 4.9 million people voted with 87,000+ who did not vote for President at all. In PA, 6 million votes were cast with Johnson getting 142000 votes and Stein something like 48,000. Absentee ballots and overseas ballots get lost or "spoiled" all the time. There are always "glitches" in the machines. With electronic voting and no paper trail it's impossible to know. In 2000 it was Florida. In 2004, it was Ohio. in 2016 it was Wisconsin, Michigan and PA. A close election is much easier to steal. You're right, Trump had to visit those three states at the last minute to give himself cover and to feed in to the "romantic " notion that he pulled off some kind of miracle with help from his Deplorables. It was theater.

Hillary won. She won and they stole it from her. Trump has no idea how much anger there is out here. But this November he is going to find out. We are going to shine a spotlight on these people. We are going to be all over this issue of fraud like white on rice, and we're going to kick their asses at the polls until their fucking noses bleed.

"Trump had to visit those three states at the last minute to give himself cover and to feed in to the "romantic " notion that he pulled off some kind of miracle with help from his Deplorables. It was theater."

Funny, I've been obsessed with this since Election Day. But somehow, I missed the obviousness of Trump visiting those states just before the election. I unwittingly gave Trump the benefit of the doubt and assumed his visiting was the reason it was so close, close enough to hack the tallies. It never occurred to me that hacking the tallies had been thought of in advance, and for that reason he "impulsively" held rallies in those states. haha (laughing to myself now).

I wish we'd stop making this about Hillary. Yes she should have won, but she didn't lose as much as we did. This isn't about her anymore. It's about us, the American people, and even the world. She is just but one of us in all this now, albeit among the best informed and most intelligent.

"I wish we'd stop making this about Hillary."

For me, it's NOT about Hillary losing, it's about a morally bankrupt criminal illegitimately being made our President. It's what makes this election result far more upsetting that when W. stole it from Gore. W. had many faults and was an awful choice, but it was the kind of awful we knew we could survive. And W. Bush wasn't a morally bankrupt man. Trump is soulless. It literally could lead to the end of our Democracy as we've known it for 300 years.

There is the possibility that Trump will get away with everything but at least we have hope. I really want Miller and Bannon to go to prison also...I wish that could happen. They have committed crimes against the people of the United States and what about Sessions...those three, racist pigs.

R98, from your lips to God's ear!

R105 I agree with much of what you say, but I refuse to give that piece of shit to power to end our democracy, along with the rich bastards who think they can buy us. We have suffered through a Republican induced Great Recession that destroyed people's lives. So many who lost their homes, and their pensions and retirement savings, and job and businesses. It took years to recover from that and some of us are still not back on our feet. Then we have 8 yrs. of Obama. We got well. We are still somewhat frail but we were definitely getting better every day.

Now this. This crude embarrassing sick destructive mental piece of shit. He is what raw sewage looks like. Our task is simple. We are going to shine a huge spotlight on our state elections and make sure the people in charge understand we a re watching and questioning and raising hell about everything. And we need to show up. Turn out. Vote. Don't worry abut who's running. Just vote for the Democrat. Because the very best way we can defeat the Koch brothers is not by boycotting their products, but by demonstrating to them that they can spend all the money in the world and it doesn't mean shit to us. We will ignore them and we will vote against their candidates. Period.

Our government would never tell us or anyone else that our vote was tampered with. We lost our democracy because of a bunch of right wing asssholes who say they love our country but they really only love the money that Russia and the NRA give them.

[quote]Our government

Our Government might not.. but Russia might. Remember, part of the plan was to make American's distrust the system and throw us in to chaos. Who is to say that's not Plan S?

Putin’s objective is to show the world, once and for all, that democracy doesn’t work, and to use the U.S. as his example. Our forefathers devised this system of Democracy over 300 years ago. It was an experiment, that for awhile, blossomed. It’s the reason we took over the world, (so to speak).

But in a way, Putin is right. At the moment, it’s not working particularly well. The problem, as I see it, is that like all great inventions, it has to continually be upgraded.

I ask you. Do we watch television the same way now that we did in the 50s, then the 60s, the 80s? Vinyl gave way to cassettes, which gave way to CDs. Now CDs are considered obsolete as mostly everything has gone digital. Our constitution of laws hasn’t been properly upgraded with the passage of time. Many fissures and loopholes have formed, and Putin found them! Our whole voting process is severely damaged and Putin found and exploited all the vulnerabilities.

The biggest problem is: Donald J. Trump should never have been allowed to run in the first place. Presidential candidates are vetted less than any cabinet position. You have to take and pass a test to get a Driver’s License. Why isn’t there a test devised for those who want to run for Leader of the Free World? A simple reading test and Trump would have failed.

In order to run for POTUS, there are only two requirements: You must have been born in this country, and you must be 37 years old. That’s it! No college degree, no psychiatric testing, not even a simple literacy test.

And as far as I’m concerned, at least one of these rules is obsolete. What if it turned out that Barack Obama hadn’t been born in this country after all? That he was smuggled in from Kenya when he was 5 days old, and even he didn’t know until it was revealed halfway thru his second term? Many believe he is one of the greatest Presidents we’ve ever had, (I’m one of them). Yet that technicality would have disqualified him. Paris Hilton can run for President and win. Yet Ted Lieu cannot! Who would most of you rather elect? Many immigrants who come here as children appreciate the opportunity of growing up in this country far more than those who were lucky enough to have been born here and simply feel entitled. You have to take a pass a test to become a citizen. Who would like to bet that Donald Trump would fail that test if forced to take it?

So much of our Constitution has to be overhauled and updated. There are many rules and laws we should have now that weren’t necessary in 1776. Laws that it would have been impossible for our forefathers to project. You should HAVE to submit your tax forms, You should have to demonstrate at least a minimal knowledge of how to govern;

How about simply naming 100 countries in the world along with their leaders. Any hundred. I bet Obama would have gotten an A-. Hillary an A+. I bet George W. Bush would have passed with a C+. Trump? “F”!!! We know it!

Trump should never gotten far enough to the point that he was the GOP nominee if at least some of these common sense laws were in place. And we all just assumed there was no way he could win! (“We” being the sensible, practical citizens as well as Obama, Clinton, and all those campaigning for her). Even the GOP had basically thrown in the towel and were trying to figure out how to salvage their party in the throes of their candidate Trump’s devastating and inevitable loss. But nobody counted on the fact that Putin had already planted the virus that defected and is currently destroying our system of Democracy. And that his virus had a name: Donald J. Trump !!!!

^^Now let's post more pics of guys with flaccid dicks!

Special counsel accuses Paul Manafort of secretly paying former European politicians to lobby on behalf of Ukraine

Special Counsel Robert Mueller filed a five-count superseding indictment Friday that accuses former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort of paying a group of “senior European politicians” to lobby members of Congress on behalf of the then-Russia backed government of Ukraine.The plan, the indictment said, was for the group to appear to be presenting U.S. officials and others with independent assessments of controversial actions taken by the Ukrainians “when in fact they were paid lobbyists.”

Manafort allegedly paid the European politicians millions from offshore accounts that should have been disclosed to the United States.

The fresh round of charges against Manafort contains five counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, and false statements.n Friday’s filing, the special counsel’s office accuses Manafort of paying a group of former European leaders more than 2 million euros to lobby on behalf of Ukraine in 2012. Manafort offered payment to the former leaders - known informally as the "Hapsburg group" - in exchange for them to appear to be providing independent assessments of Ukraine's government.

The latest charges come against Manafort as his former colleague, Rick Gates, pleaded guilty Friday in federal court and has agreed to cooperate with Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. Gates, a one-time Trump campaign aide, pleaded guilty to two felony counts: conspiracy against the U.S. and lying to federal authorities.

Manafort said Gates' plea does not affect his position on his own case.

“Notwithstanding that Rick Gates pled today, I continue to maintain my innocence. I had hoped and expected my business colleague would have had the strength to continue the battle to prove our innocence. For reasons yet to surface he chose to do otherwise," Manafort said in a statement. "This does not alter my commitment to defend myself against the untrue piled up charges contained in the indictments against me.”

This gives me a weird flashback to the GWB election (the first one) where it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that he drove every single company he ran to bankruptcy, but sure! Let him be POTUS! What. Could. Go. Wrong?

That Realtiy TV blowhard Donald Trump is campaigning to become POTUS and his campaign is managed by a well known shady finance broker. What. Could. Go. Wrong?

We never learn.

A little off topic, but whatever happened with Melania’s volunteer with the 26 million? I was getting a lesbian vibe, but maybe my gaydar is broken.

R111 the Framers of our Constitution deliberately kept things vague for the very reasons you have cited. The Constitution requires people born here and at least 37. Now it is u to us, without completely amending the basic Constitution, to fill in the appropriate laws and regulations. There's nothing to stop us from passing a law to require candidates submit their tax returns, and submit to health screening. We can do that. In the past it has been "traditional." But we can formalize that and turn it into a law.

As for being Native born, that was deliberate so that the Framers could protect us from a take over by a foreign government. Hah. The problem is Donald Trump was vetted. Every single thing we now about him today was knowable two years ago. There is nothing new. He made it through the gauntlet of primaries to secure the nomination and win the Presidency.

He was vetted by the American people. He was vetted by the News Media. The news media of today fills the role the old political party bosses use to fill of determining who the party's nominee would be. The Media has supplanted political parties in filling that role. Now we have the allegedly "more democratic" Primary system, and we have fucking political campaigns that last two fucking years. And all through those campaigns and endless debates, the media tells us we "don't know enough about certain candidates,. The fact that the media did not do their job, and that he was allowed to manipulate they system is our problem. The fact that our Supreme court supported Citizens United is the problem, Individual states have gerrymandered districts to insure a GOP majority in the House and to suppress the vote, both of which are blatantly illegal under our laws but have been permitted through legal gimmickry.

It is the process itself that allows people like Trump to get away with it. Our campaign season is too long. Our political campaigns too costly. That, IMO is where we need to focus attention. And there needs to be uniform standards in how elections are conducted. I thin the set up for elections is a good one. But the process is obsolete and the states need to adopt uniform standards for HOW they vote and how votes are counted.

Most states have out of date machines or the local counties have obsolete machines and it's impossible from one state to another to get an accurate count. I'm not suggesting nationalizing the system. That would be bad. It would be easier to tamper with. But I am suggesting the re should be standards the state mus meet. All our complaints are of our own making. We have the lowest turn out record of any country. It's shameful. We think by showing up to vote every once in a while we are doing our duty. But voting is the beginning, not the end of engagement. We must pay more attention and we must get involved. Otherwise this is what we get.

Just because the GOP Congress or the corrupt state governments don't enforce a law doesn't make a crime legal. When Trump bribed that Attorney General Bondi, by giving money to her campaign while she was investigating him, there was no outrage expressed. Trump has been charged with crimes like sexual assault and rape by more than 13 women, and no one chooses to hold him accountable. Whose fault is that? We elect these people. We knew he was going to be in a position with a majority in both houses to chose judges and pack the Supreme Court. So shame on us. It's almost like we have become numb to the constant outrages. We watch our Congress do nothing when kids get slaughtered. They mouth platitudes and sit there and hope our outrage wil pass. They treat us as if we're having a tantrum and eventually we will get worn down.

R110 Putin has no philosophy. He wants to be the richest, most powerful guy in the world. The biggest dick. That's what he cares about. He has contempt for the masses of people and thinks ideology is a joke. We're the only assholes who get tangled up in ideologies. With our Evangelicals, and our Pro Life movements and our White Supremacists. They believe in something. Ideology is used to divide people and get them distracted while Putin robs them blind. The Koch brothers are called "Conservatives." But all they want is the right to do anything they want completely unregulated, and pay no taxes for the right to do it. They don't care about ideology either.

Rick Gates tweeted this, and it sums up the thought in my head perfectly:

"Gates pled to and Manafort was indicted for "conspiracy against the United States" today. I keep thinking about that. The Chairman of the President's election campaign."

The minimum age for a president is 35. Where are you getting 37, ffs?

R116 has a long list of complaints. United States is a self-government experiment. Legislation is an act of momentary, prevailing will. Washington is a confluence of wills. Power. Neither reason nor rationality.

Powerful people get their way. That's why they call it power.

Peasants are divided in half. Middle class is vanishing. Welcome to the future.

I was wondering why people were saying 37, too, R121.

Here. For all the Bernie fans. As he continues to try to wash the shit off his hands..... he hates not getting attention. He tried to do an anti AK 15 rant in a few interviews but it isn't getting the "pop" he wanted. So now he is trying to insinuate himself into the Russia thing....but only as a martyr... a voice in the wilderness. Go home Bernie. Sit down. Shut up. ' K?

[quote]Presidential candidates are vetted less than any cabinet position.

The other day on MSNBC, in the middle of a discussion about security clearances, someone asked if Trump himself could have possibly gotten a WH security clearance if he wasn’t the president. The panel went silent, then one by one shook their heads and said, "No, of course not."

Think about that. The President Of The United States couldn’t get a simple security clearance. How is such a thing allowed to be?

[quote] "I wish we'd stop making this about Hillary."

I understand that we will not be able to see Hillary Clinton assume the office to which she was duly elected. But, I don't think this is about Hillary as much as it is about finding out the truth of what happened with the hope and expectation that we can do something to prevent it in the future. Of necessity, people have to look into, examine, and discuss what occurred in Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Michigan, and Wisconsin on Election Day 2016. It wasn't just "fishy." Something illegal occurred, and we need to know what it was.

Just to be clear: I will never accept this fat, bloated, orange, criminally insane dotard as the legitimately elected President of the United States.

Republican @TheRickWilson

Had this been Obama or Clinton with 1/100th of this level of evidence, the GOP, myself included, would have been screaming for impeachment.

And fuck Ryan Zinke!

Whats the bet he wanted confidential info on Alaskan oil stuff so he could organise for his buddies to buy - or jettison - a swag of oil shares - before the public had the data.

And five will get you ten that many of those buddies had Russian oligarch connections - or were oligarchs themselves. This is all about money. It’s all they care about. And they wouldn’t think twice about selling their own grandmothers - let alone their countries.

He needs to be indicted. Pronto.

Ideologies and Religion are for suckers to be used and manipulated. They create buttons the snake oil salesmen can push for the masses to do their bidding.

Right now, the upper tiers of our government, corporations, and more, are literally OOZING corruption. Even looking back on other highly corrupt periods (like during Prohibition), I think the current scumbags take the cake as THE most corrupt wave our country has ever seen.

One of the few good things I’m seeing though, is that for once, I feel like our side is using solidarity. FINALLY, we are all seeing that we too can use our numbers to wield power and pressure. Look at what’s happening to corporations who support the NRA, literally as I’m typing these words? That’s because of people like us. (BTW, write letters to Amazon and FedEx, those are the big two I want to pin, I want to hear them cry Uncle over the NRA, I spend a lot of money with those fuckers).

Other posters have said that in order for a democracy to continue evolving, we “had” to come to this point. They may be right. I think we did have to come to this crossroads. Are we going to allow this? Or not? Having said that, I’m still terrified because there is no guarantee our side will win. But I’ll go down fighting, I know you all will too. I will NOT stop fighting.

I think our government may indeed break protocol and tell citizens the truth about the vote, because they now see that if they don’t, all future elections will be rigged. They have no choice but to admit it.

Last but not least, remember all of Donnie John’s “drain the swamp” shite lol? I can honestly say, he’s kept his promise HA!!! The biggest snakes are slowly getting caught. I think Trump will be too. In the past, Trump would have walked. This time, I don’t believe it will happen, because the only true way to stop these criminals is to use the law.

Boycotts work best when people are passionate about civil rights. The whole One MIllion Moms thing was / is a farce.

Well, I think everyone understands that allowing AR’s to float around in a free Society is a violation of our civil rights.

Enjoyed your post, R129. More than a "like" could infer.

Agree R126.

Suspect the House Republicans would impeach Trump too if they weren't afraid so many of their own were implicated in his complicity (Nunes, McCarthy, Rohrabacher, etc.).

They know many questionable Rs have left, e.g. Chaffetz, or are planning to leave, Hersarling, Gowdy, Issa, (Paul is that you?), and that a Blue Wave is looming. They know they are probably fu*ked next year.

But once they start impeaching over Russia, they fear not being able to stop the guillotine at Trump.

Once they unleash the dogs, instead of [italic] maybe [/italic] losing their majority in January 2019, it could collapse this summer. (Like when they lost a series of maritally “compromised” members in the aftermath of the Clinton/Lewinsky fiasco.

So, despite Trump’s treason, they’re blinding their eyes for now, in hopes of slipping out with pensions by December, and leaving a Blue House to impeach the Red President.

They won't impeachment cuz he is giving his voters what they want. They don't care what he did. They want him. A wall, guns, anti-immigrant, military parade, tear down establishment. As long as he feeds the beast, he'll be king of the beasts. Most of them would choose Putin over ANY democrat-identified American.

In terms of pursuing his own personal interests at all times, he's phenomenol. I missed that day in Life class and I'm poor as shit. Lol.

Also, the party in opposition always feels the energy. All this heat and juice you feel now? That's how the trumpkins felt during Obama. Fearful, passionate, alienation from federal gov't power.

This Wash Post article should be sent to every single Republican in Congress. Shame on them for not standing up for him. We owe him so much better!

We spend a lot with Amazon, R129. Thanks for the reminder. Sending them an email and one of those very precious snail mails of outrage.

The Constitution has a process to amend, which has been done multiple times since it was ratified. Some were motivated due to the Constitution not being clear or ambiguous on the matter.

Often it is the Supreme Court that rules or interprets what a particular constitutional clause means when a new issue emerges through the federal system, via appeals, that hasn't been addressed before in a particular context. The Supreme Court can also reverse itself on an earlier ruling per a new, perhaps slightly different, appealed case they agree to hear.

True R137. Also, amending the constitution won't change the reality on the ground. We still have African-American men in bondage picking cotton in Texas. We just renamed it the War on Drugs.

While we try to rewrite the current rules, we must understand that these powerful weapons are with us for a century at least.

R126, Reality Winner is sitting in a jail cell, or I hope she's out, for knowing that information. She knows and the information was suppressed. I want to know what she saw that made the NSA so frightened.

Reality Winner sits in jail without bail.........what she saw was proof that the election was tampered with.....and russian asset Glenn Greenwald played and exposed her to protect Putin. Isnt it funny that of all the supposed leakers out there, they chose her to make an example out of ? (they being Sessions, the DOJ and Trump)

Greenwald's little vanity project is no longer receiving tips. I wonder why. They left Reality far behind, they left reality out to dry.

I heard Reality Winner WAS the Russian plant. The "secret info" was a false flag. CIA has her under heavy questioning.

r142..Do you really believe that ?........are you high ? Greenwald is the asset in the equation. If Reality Winner were a russian plant, and her "secret info" was a false flag, Trump and co would have been trumpeting it from rooftops pointing to it as showing "Rusher is a hoax". Use your common sense and critical thinking on that one.

[quote]In order to run for POTUS, there are only two requirements: You must have been born in this country,

Not if you're white! :-)

Pure fucking bullshit, R142. They threw that out there because she had the goods on those assholes. Greenwald and co. got scared as fuck and made a huge mistake in giving the NSA paperwork they could trace back to her. She's the real deal and a hero.

I'm not so sure. Reality Winner was very suspicious to me. Raised a lot of questions. There are a lot of political actors (anti-Trump/USA) in gov't. I'm gonna wait for results of full inquiry.

I have R142 / R145 blocked, for whatever it’s worth.

Sorry, I mean I have R146 blocked, not R145.

Same here r147.

"That footage of Manafort today walking into the street and to his car cracks me up"

Why is he allowed out and about when they know he's going to prison for at least SOMEthing? Him and Gates (and others) should be sitting behind bars awaiting trial. They are flight risks, and they know a lot of foreigners.

Wonder if Kellyanne Conway, Rebekah Mercer, and operatives of Cambridge Analytica, will be interviewed by the Mueller team? If that is not done, a big component on whether or not financial collusion was undertaken in a sinister way. will be overlooked.

One assumes Steve Bannon was asked about this.

[quote] They are flight risks, and they know a lot of foreigners.

I suspect that the FBI and their law enforcement partners have him under constant surveillance. I can't imagine that he still has his passport. And, if he tries to flee, Judge Jackson will lock his ass up in a heartbeat.

Plus, Mueller would be able to use any attempt to flee against him in court as further evidence of guilt. Not that Mueller is really going to need it. I suspect that he has more than enough to nail Manafort's ass to the wall several times over. It is clear at this point that Manafort will likely die in prison -- if Putin doesn't have him silenced before he ever gets near the federal pen.

I hope somebody is keeping an eye on Mueller. I've been hearing a lot of strange things about him. Very fishy!

[quote] I've been hearing a lot of strange things about him. Very fishy!

Quit the krokodil before it kills you, Boris.

The Trumps are trapped in the White House this weekend. Probably hunkering-down in their 27 lawyers.

I agree for R153. Very fish! Please to someone look into this thing!!

Anyone else having an issue with photos / links loading on DL?

No Mar-a-Lago, no golf. The primal-scream tweets will plumb new depths on Monday.

I don't think Trump even likes golf. Did he ever golf before he started building golf resorts?

They are money-laundering operations. But he has to golf so it looks like he's a golf fanatic and can't get enough of it.

Yes, R157. There are a few threads about it. That combined with error messages popping up.

R155 More likely discussing how to abuse presidential powers to shut down the investigation. The inevitable showdown is coming. Trump knows the fire is getting too close, and the only weapon he has left is to fire back. Get ready for the other shoe to drop.

R110, 111 here.

R116 Thanks for your very thoughtful, incisive post. It’s exactly the type of dialog I was hoping to start.

I wrote that post late last night, very tired and frustrated. Too lazy to google some “facts”, so sorry for the errors. I knew if the age wasn’t 37, it was within a couple digits and someone would correct me. Lol

Of course I’m aware of the amendments, but they are still way behind these current times.

Having slept on it, I’ve isolated my bones of contentment a bit. Hateful, divisive, fact-challenged Trump Supporters like KellyAnne Conway and Sean Hannity, when confronted with Trump not releasing his taxes or the 19 allegations of sexual assault, defend him by saying, “well the American people voted for him so obviously they don’t care. It’s okay with them”. We know that’s true of the 33%, aka his base - aka The Deplorables! - but that is far less than at less than the 51% of the American majority – who absolutely are appalled this man - this morally bankrupt grifter/criminal - is our President!

But to somewhat reiterate, my points are two-fold:

1)tIf there had already been an amendment about tax forms, and one regarding morals, he would have been disqualified from running so these would have not been issues. (IF law, Trump would have never considered running in the first place). 2)tAs many of us believe in our hearts, Putin hacked our voting machines. Trump did NOT legitimately win. He lost, (and by a landslide). Therefore, a majority much higher than 51% DID NOT elect this man. So we continue to get further and further incensed with the far Rights’ continued gloating.

Those who believe he legitimately won due to our flawed electoral college system, those who are still paralyzed in their shock a man so heinous and morally bankrupt could have conned enough Americans to vote him POTUS - I have news for you:

If Putin DIDhack our system and also brainwashed these "implorables" by drumming the false news stories into their heads for way beyond three years, then you're not crazy. We were duped. Your neighbor/Trump supporter who you used to love isn't as bad as you've been led to believe, and can be brought back to his senses if we consider this possibility and act with immediacy.

I'm not shutting down the computer for hopefully the entire rest of the weekend!

^^sorry for the numerous typos. Hopefully most of you got the brunt of my post.

Here’s a great article from WIRED about the takeaways from Gates’ guilty plea?

The article lists 12 big questions that remain open in the Trump/Russia/Mueller probe.

“Today’s guilty plea by Rick Gates might be one of the least surprising developments in the Mueller investigation: It had been clear that the former Trump campaign aide would likely seek a deal almost since the day Gates and his business partner and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort were indicted in October, and we’ve seen reports for weeks that negotiations between Mueller and Gates have been underway.

The move does, though, apply new pressure to Manafort, who will now face in court not just the bank records that originally led to his indictment but also testimony from his former close associate and accomplice in the money-laundering scheme that allegedly involved upward of $60 million. When it comes to Manafort, Gates—who was also a Trump campaign and transition official—knows where the bodies are buried....”

A bigger shame is Congress; essentially the Republicans there. They are complicit, putting party before country; and lining their coffers with money from the Kochs, Mercers, big bankers, the NRA, Russian oligarchs, etc. They are not doing oversight; and further enabling this Russian intrusion and Putin's puppet government in the executive branch.

Democrats protest too little.

R162 all I want to say is that we can do a lot simply by passing laws and regulating the process. A Constitutional Amendment about tax returns is an extreme measure, and it's impractical. Do you have any idea what the process is to pass an amendment to the Constitution?First some one in Congress has to write and introduce the legislation Then there are hearings. Then after a lot of tweaking they have to vote to pass the legislation, then every individual state has to vote on it. It needs the support of at least 38 states. It is about as permanent as it gets. It's like etching something in stone. Passing a law is much easier. And faster. We can definitely set criteria for running for President into law We can require candidates to submit tax returns and get a health exam, and what ever else is necessary. Getting rid of the Electoral College would have to go through the amendment process, get approved by Congress and then approved by 38 out of 50 states.

What we really need is campaign finance reform. The tax payers should be the only ones funding campaigns that way they work for us, the donors.

Exactly, R167.

And neither should hostile foreign nations be allowed to finance American political campaigns, as the ultra-billionaire Putin did for the campaigns of Trump, Stein and Sanders (but not Clinton, Johnson or McMullin).

He doesn't have much of a choice except to shut this down. And soon.

Hopefully it will have terrible consequences, but just as fired Comey, my guess is that he will do the same to Mueller.

Do we have anything new on Bernie or are just trying to get a rise out of liberals? He has always been the same progressive person unlike Stien who's politics were straight from RT.

What new evidence is there on Bernie, besides the weak connection from 40 years ago to Paul Manafort?

Ok so nothing new on Bernie then, just trying to get a rise. Carry on.

The Dems finally grew some balls and released their Memo. Twittler is literally shitting his pants right now.

r166, True, it takes a great deal of effort to alter the Constitution but it takes an even greater effort to erase that ammendment. Look at all the laws Obama introduces and got through the senate during his time which are now reversed by Trump and the GOP senate.

If the Dems were smart they would push hard for Constitutional ammendments when they have a clear majority and some major leverage over the Republican Party as minority opposition party.

sorry, ... look at all the laws Obama introduceD and pushed through the senate.

R172: Wow, that is one pissed-off, articulate memo. Nunes gets called out repeatedly for his misrepresentations.

Nunes is a treasonous tool. And a stupid one. Lock him up!

You understand Trump can end Mueller investigation and pardon everyone in five minutes, right?

You think Congress has power or the will to stop him? I suggest you guys prepare for the sinking feeling when he does just that.

The GOP stooges are getting called out one by one. It's still a slow moving trainwreck but hopefully, the final impact will hit Trump/GOP/Russia like a locomotive.

R177 LOL That sinking feeling is coming for you, not us.

And if he does, R177, you can expect that upcoming Democratic wave later this year to assume tsunami proportions, at which point Democrats will simply reinstate Mueller and the investigation will continue. And if Trump pardons everyone, they will still have to face the charges from the New York attorney general, charges that Trump cannot pardon.

R180, yes, it's important to remember that a pardon does not expunge actual guilt. Any pardoned Trump official can be tried under State law for the crimes that they committed. (They can also be denied any State license, such as a license to practice law, that depends on a showing of 'good character.')

Republican Tom Nichols: ‏ If this many people around - and near the top of - a President Hillary Clinton campaign had pled guilty to multiple felonies, how many Republicans would be saying: "But it probably has nothing to do with her?" We'd be deep into impeachment by now.

[quote]Is that (heavy) conjecture on your part? I would assume it has to be, (no offense). But if you can, elaborate further... even if it is mostly theory. I suspect you're right but I can't figure out the mechanics. Thanks.

It was Obama who pushed for her to concede, we know this because they both confirmed right after the election was over. I think now we know why she didn't address the crowd that night, she probably didn't know what to do. She had some information that Trump was working with the Russians, yet you had your own party telling you she last fair and square and it was time for her to move on.

R171, what part of Bernie's campaign strategy manager being Manafort bestie Tad Devine is incomprehensible to you? That is not “40 years ago”.

This week Bernie lied in radio interview that his campaign had “warned” the Clinton campaign of Russian interference. Not only was this an utter lie, but Bernie has had to backtrack today as well. Politico has the article, if you’re so deeply interested (though if you’re pushing disinformation that Bernie’s only connection to Trump as Russia was 40 years ago, then you’re a troll anyway).

Mueller named the fucking Sanders campaign in the indictments last Friday, asshole. “Carry on”, yourself.

[quote] Republican Tom Nichols: ‏ If this many people around - and near the top of - a President Hillary Clinton campaign had pled guilty to multiple felonies, how many Republicans would be saying: "But it probably has nothing to do with her?" We'd be deep into impeachment by now.

This x 1,000.

It seems clear that these felonious, traitorous clowns have committed so many crimes that Mueller can string this out with indictments every few weeks until a new Congress is seated in January -- one that is not led by corrupt, incompetent buffoons who have betrayed our country and are beholden to Russia. He can then lower the boom. Mueller must know how many Rethuglican Senators and Representatives have been compromised by their disloyalty to the United States. And he also knows that they will do nothing to protect the integrity of his investigation should Trump try to end it. The fact that their "investigations" are a joke is stain on our democracy.

Ordinarily, a prosecutor should never let political considerations intrude into the criminal justice process. But this mess is clearly in a category of its own. The people in charge of the government are the ones under investigation and simultaneously have the power and authority to squelch or stop the investigation. That alone calls for a different calculation than would normally apply.

Bernie better take a plea while he can. He and Paul Manafort planned this 40 years ago and it all came off without a hitch. Bernie was the mastermind and is actually the real culprit.

They are going to bust Bernie any day now, right after the Hillary indictments from Bengazi.

CNN just showed Nunes making a statement at C-Pac. Lying thru his fucking teeth. I wish Adam Schiff would confront him and his lies personally and say something like, "With all due respect, Mr. Nunes, you are lying! I challenge you to stand right in front of me and repeat those claims so I can refute and challenge your sources. You don't have the guts!".

(can't help but fantasize).

R186 and R187, sorry you’re both so butthurt that Sanders is implicated.

1. Sanders’ association with Manafort is not from 40 years ago. It is from 2016, when Manafort co-Ukraine-conspirator Tad Devine was Bernie Sanders’ campaign strategy manager.

2. Unlike Hillary and Benghazi, there really is a “here” here, and the Sanders campaign has been explicitly named as a beneficiary from Russian crunes against the United States by Robert Mueller as of last Friday.

Bravo, though, for using two well-known Soviet propaganda techniques in tandem — disinformation and whataboutism.

r188....and yet, not one reporter called him out on his lies either.

R180 is in the neighborhood. It will come down to November. Blue wave is not clear to me. And you can expect every single kind of bullshit in those rural precincts. Full court press dsinformation campaign hammering people. Gonna be friggin mayhem.

If you don't have a link, with a credible source, then just forget it for the next 9 months.

[quote] Blue wave is not clear to me.

It is to everyone who's paying attention.

1. A record number of Congressional Republicans retiring.

2. A record number of viable, funded Democratic candidates, something like three times the number of such candidates the last time we had a wave election (a Republican one at that time).

3. Democratic candidates far outpacing their Republican counterparts in fundraising.

4. Democrats outpacing their voting percentages by double digits in the off-cycle elections in the past year, including winning all four state legislature elections this year, all of them in red districts.

5. Trump with record disapproval numbers.

6. Congressional Republicans with record disapproval numbers, including from their own base.

7. Their only real accomplishment is the tax cut bill and it's proving to be the least popular tax cut bill ever, even less popular than some of the former tax [italic]hike[/italic] bills.

8. The Democrats still have a +8 percentage point advantage in the generic ballot.

So yes, r191, you can expect a Democratic wave. Yes, Republicans can still turn this around but, at the moment, nobody is seeing any signs of that happening and nobody is betting on it.

R192, are you seriously denying that Tad Devine didn’t work with Paul Manafort?

R 177- you're kidding or trolling right?? Even his OWN LAWYERS have told him not to pull a stunt like that re:firing Meuller. It would cause a Constitutional crisis of such proportions the entire Nation would be on It's feet. I'm beginning to think that's Putin's plan - completely destroy American society and then walk-in and take over

R192, here is a credible media outlet reporting yesterday that Sanders lied about reporting Russian involvement.

How did Devine end up on Bernie's campaign?

If Trump is desperate enough to fire Mueller, he will fire him, lawyers be damned. There will be no constitutional crisis because Republicans run the show and they won't do one damn thing about it.

So we vote in Democrats in November, R198. Problem solved.

R193, you make good, persuasive points.

Also, we are in a new world. The unthinkable happened when Trump won. Will USA revert to rational normalcy? I don't know. Trump/Putin/GOP very good at narrative warfare. Dems/media still weak with breathless outrage.

If Trump fires mueller and pardons everyone, will Ryan and McConnell oppose him? Mattis? Most people will just tremble in front of CNN like pussies.

I just looked it up, R197. Apparently Devine and Sanders have been friends for twenty years, which is a bit worrisome considering what we now know about Devine’s Putin-led meddling in the Ukraine elections during that same time period.

I'm not that optimistic about that, r199. Not as long as the useless, shooting-self-in-foot DCCC continues to be in charge.

The DCCC is fine, R202. I'm guessing that you're referring to the DNC, which doesn't usually play a significant role in the off-year elections and will play even less of a role this year. You're still ignoring all of the candidates who are winning, including 90% of the state legislature elections we've had thus far. Democratic candidates are doing just fine.

And deserve our support r203.

R201 Tad is knee deep in this Russian shit. When Tad Devine is indicted, I wonder how Bernie and his trolls will try to squirm his ways of that one? Old Bernie didn't know him that well? Old Bernie was not that close to Tad? Old Bernie was fooled like everyone? LOL

For all we know Tad Devine may be a cooperating witness against Manafort. Devine has been around Democratic Party politics for decades. Look if this were a chess game Bernie and Jill Stein would be pawns.

Fucking Bernie Sanders - do hope that some journalists will start calling him out to his face when he tells lies that (article above!) - it’s fucking bullshit -

And really - when he starts lying like this - what’s he trying to hide/deflect? Wasn’t that suspicious of him in the past - but the more time goes on - the more I think he’s involved - and not just clueless pawns

You have to wonder why he's lying. What is he trying to hide?

It’s interesting that every time the conversation gets back to the Mueller probe and the criminality of the Trump group, someone starts going off on Bernie Sanders as if he’s the chief culprit. Every time.

Meanwhile the Dems response to the Nunes Memo has a ton of reveals including THIS...

“An apparent mistake in the declassification process, footnote 7 seems to reveal what's redacted: FIVE campaign officials were under investigation as of Sept. '16, including the future National Security Advisor, MICHAEL FLYNN.L

R209 - Bernie Sanders isn’t some chief culprit. He’s either been a useful idiot - or he’s in someway complicit. But he’s merely a side dish. He’s not important enough to be the main course.

But his lying - completely unnecessarily - indicates that there’s something more than meets the eye. It needs to be investigated. And I’m sure it will be.

Oh, Trump is definitely the chief culprit. But that doesn’t mean other politicians didn’t benefit too, just as Mueller stated in the most recent 13 indictments.

Didn't Bernie take his honeymoon in Moscow?

Wow, things are now moving fast & furious. Gates plea; WashPo reporting yesterday that Kelly told staffers he'd be okay with Jared & Ivanka stepping down from full-time roles in the West Wing; Reuters reporting yesterday that Kelly & McMaster could soon resign over "friction" with Trump; today's release of the Schiff memo. I was kind of waiting for summer for things to really heat up (literally & figuratively) - in advance of the inevitable Blue Wave in November. Now, I'm not so sure Trump is even going to last to the mid-terms. Rethugs may begin to jump ship soon, realizing they got their massive corporate tax cut, and possibly thinking they can save some seats with Pence in charge (unless Mueller's got him dead to rights as well - but somehow I tend to doubt it).

The Orange Asshole must be shitting his pants (even moreso than he usually does in light of his fast food diet). He does seem to be particularly unhinged as of late.

I wonder who the four other Trump campaign officials are, R212.

Nobody is making Bernard the chief culprit. They're just not allowing him to get off by not being named one of them.

R211 Putin is the puppeteer... Trump, Bernie and Jill are just puppets. But all these puppets know very well who's pulling the strings, because they have all been lying or equivocating or shifting blame to the Dems. To say they don't know shows the speakers' (trolls') own agenda.

R216 While we can't get at Putin directly, we can investigate, prosecute and neutralize all his puppets if we have the political will.

r212: Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos, Page. (Keep up.)

Apologies, that was meant for r214.

Yes, R212, he did.

I think Bernie's Moscow ties go way back. Plus he and Trump both went after poor whites. I think Putin wanted to hit Hillary from both sides. Remember she hit his election in 2011. Turnabout is fair play.

Can I suggest that the people posting about Bernie go and start a "Bernie's Treason" thread where they can talk about it to their hearts' content there. If you think it’s that important of an issue, surely it merits its own side-thread, right.

If you don’t, we're gonna assume you’re trolls and we’re gonna start FF-ing your asses.

You’ve got four hours. Countdown begins now....

Yes, the Bernie thing is interesting, but put it in a separate thread. There is enough to try and keep track of with the Mueller investigation.

[quote]If you don’t, we're gonna assume you’re trolls and we’re gonna start FF-ing your asses.

Who is "we're?" You seem the only person bothered by it. And this thread is about all those involved.

Is this your thread? Thought so,

May I suggest if you dont like it dont come in here. Otherwise we'll assume you're a paid troll and we'll FF you. You have an hour.

There's no reason Bernie can't be discussed along wiith everyone else. Should a different thread be started any time someone wants to mention Stein or Nunes? No.

I want to keep talking about everyone involved, and according to Mueller three campaigns benefited, those of Trumo, Stein and Sanders. To ignore this would be very weird.

R221, wtf? Hillary did not intervene illegally in Putin’s 2011 election, and so this is not “fair turnabout”. You’ve said a lot of weird things in this thread, including that Mueller himself is “fishy”, and that Reality Winner is a plant (as opposed to a whistleblower). It sounds like disinformation and muddying of the waters to me.

It's a troll R227. Best ignored.

lol @ the Berniacs are pissed because Politico keeps retweeting the Bernie story over and over again. Politico does this with all their top stories, nothing wrong with what they are doing.

Ah, okay, thanks R228.

Hillary absolutely illegally meddled in Russian election 2011. You think Russia doesn't have laws? She thinks she's above all laws. Here and abroad. So yes, turnabout is fair play.

Yawn. Ignore the Hillary vs. Bernie posts. It’s a silly tactic.

Just keep repeating to yourself, "Over a hundred indictments. Nineteen people. And it’s still February." Over and over and over....

The trolls need to protect theire false idol, the Walking Corpse, for 2020! LMAO

r231........Calling out Putin to run the election fairly and legally is not interfering.....now kindly take your Fox/Brietbart shit elsewhere.

Umm. She did a lot more than that and you know it. Give me a break.

I’ll ignore, and I’ll continue discussing whoever Mueller flags up, just as he did last Friday.

It is now clear that R231 is definitely, definitely a troll (and the foreign grammar is slipping out, as well).

So then, enlighten us r235....what did big, bad, Hillary do ? Spellbind us with your stories of espionage and international intrigue....

One Dynamite Paragraph of the Dem Memo Proves Trump/Russia Collusion:

“Carter Page was a member of the Trump campaign when he talked to the Russians about releasing information that they had on Hillary Clinton. There is now a connection between a member of the Trump campaign and Russia discussing releasing the damaging information that the Russians had on Hillary Clinton to help Donald Trump. The information that the Russians were offering was illegally obtained through hacking, and the Trump campaign seemed more than willing to take illegal campaign assistance from a hostile foreign power.”

[quote]There is now a connection between a member of the Trump campaign and Russia discussing releasing the damaging information that the Russians had on Hillary Clinton to help Donald Trump

What was I? Chopped liver?

Adam Schiff is calling the Orange Orca out.

“Wrong again, Mr. President. It confirms the FBI acted appropriately and that Russian agents approached two of your advisors, and informed your campaign that Russia was prepared to help you by disseminating stolen Clinton emails.”

Anyone who wants to hear for himself how the Orange Scumbag is gonna defend himself, you can watch this. I , for one, don't have the stomach for it.

r241....HAHAHA....as if the subject will even come up on Fox.

This dish coming from CPAC:

Kellyanne Conway was known as “Kellyanne Fitz-everyone” back in the day.

Nice for see thread full of post of Timmy, old colleague at Institute Cowboy Studies!

He have truth. You listen.

A little history of Hillary, Putin, and election shenanigans.

r245....you are an idiot and you obviously didnt read the artice.....all it says is HC criticized Putins handling of the election.....thats not working to interfere and undermine the election......good whataboutism though.

R246 which is exactly what someone pointed out she did above. Seriously, ignore the troll.

All Putin did is buy some FB ads and post some bullshit. No different. Just cause a little trouble with words. Same with HRC.

r248.....and lots and lots of money and agents sent to infiltrate American interests......moron.

More CNN of featuring Bernie Sanders as speaking for Democrats needs to end. Perez needs to disavow such, and find new leaders that are actually Democrats, speak for Democrats.

Sanders and Stein were too complicit with his 'Rusher' saga.

R249 seriously ignore it. It's intentionally spouting ridiculous talking points so everyone gets distracted. Don't feed it.

She fucked with him. He fucked with her. Period. You really think he was just gonna bend over and be her bitch? Karma.

r252.......but he will....and so will Trump

R243 Kellyanne was the blueberry packing queen back in the day. Perhaps there were other talents beyond spin.

Isnt it ironic that for the past several decades the GOP has been vilifying and demonizing Hillary Clinton...and it was Trumps bread and butter....and in the end, she will be the sympathetic victim of illegal activities by her political opponents in an attempt to overthrow the government. (yes, allowing Putin in the front door is a coup)

Look. This is not a big deal. Bernie is not a player. He is a pawn. Politics 101: In every campaign there is always an attempt to sabotage your opponent. If Jeb Bush had been the nominee there would have been some attempt to plant a third candidate from the Left to divide and weaken the Dems. The Dems would attempt to plant a third candidate from the Right. It's done all the time. It really helps when your spoiler candidate has a huge ego and get in it on their own and believes they can actually "do something." 99% of the time they never expect to win. They just want to "raise issue and make a point."

Ever since Bernie & his campaign were mentioned as being compromised and getting support from the Russians, along with Stein, Bernie has been trying to do two things simultaneously.. He wants to insinuate himself into the conversation,...but on the correct side. And he wants to get the shit off his shoes. Yes, he stepped in some shit, and he wants to make sure the world know he had nothing to do with this. He sees his own role as much larger than it was Unfortunately so do some of his supporters.

Bernie's worried that it's going to make him look bad. So first, he accuses Hillary of "not doing enough" then he lies and says he "warned Hillary's campaign", which was a lie. It's silly to attach too much significance to it. This is not the first time he's lied or distorted the truth. He does it with less consistency than Trump, but he's done it before, usually taking credit for thing he had nothing to do with, or inflating his role in something. Last week he was taking about gun control. That's right. Bernie was supporting the assault weapons ban. He's running for President. Right now he'll say just about anything. The Mueller investigation is not his party.

Vote on Hoarsey's Trump "approval" poll for the laughs and giggles.

Both Jill and Bernie will be presented incontrovertible evidence proving that the spooks of the Russian anti-American program used them as tools.

r248, Ivan, use the fucking articles. You are greatly in danger of having your family shipped to New Siberia.

Exactly R258

Bernie's probably pissing himself....more than usual. He was determined to run for President again in 2020. But he will be seriously damaged by this. The notion he was used, either duped or a willing idiot, and ensnared in the most profoundly dangerous event in the history of the United States? Sheeeee-it.

^Nah don't kid yourself. Much like the Deplorables the Bern cultists will make excuses and just say it wasn't his fault he didn't know what was going on.

Nope, R262, that ain’t gonna work now. Pay attention.

OK. So who's next? Mueller is establishing Russian involvement. He is establishing a motive for Manafort a Russian asset, to join Trump. So now Mueller has to link Trump, his son in law, his daughter, and his son to Russians. And yes, Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica. I just read today that Facebook, Google and one other all helped Trump. They actually sent someone in to help them.

Pay attention to what, R263? Your browser clearing?

A reminder of a happier time. We'll get there again.

R264 why does Mueller need to find something linking Jr to Russia? He already has the emails of Jr eagerly trying to get the info about Clinton. Doesn't he already have proof that Kush met with the Russians?

And while I'm thinking about it... it hasn't been mentioned in a few threads (it was normally mentioned at least once) we can't forget Ivanka's weird trip after she had just given birth.

R267 I also thought the same thing with Jr. flaunting that meeting and lying about its purpose before his emails exposed him. To us, he and his dad look guilty as sin, but in the court, the meeting/lying would be just circumstantial/suspicious but not hard evidence proving agreement to collude. You would need some evidence of quid pro quo, a taped conversation or incriminating paper/money trail, to even have a solid case. That's my analysis of the situation anyway.

It's so disgusting to watch that arrogant fool and his family act like they belong in the White House when they do not. Trump sends his stupid daughter to South Korea to one-up Un for sending his sister to the Olympics. It's wrong to politicize the Olympics. How can they behave this way knowing they cheated their way in? I don't know how that family and corrupt administration sleeps at night. I can't wait to see them all in jail.

R269, I can understand his narcissism but I can't believe he still has supporters.

Unnerving indeed to watch R266's link. Yes it's sentimental - but a painful reminder of what it was like having a sane human being, more than worthy of high office, in charge.

Trump doesn't have it in him to interact naturally and warmly even for one photograph - being ugly inside and out. May the integrity and intelligence of Mueller lay bare the full grotesquerie of this criminal.

R271, from your mouth to the Universe’s ears.

Has Cheatin’ Cheeto tweeted yet?

Good lawdy, DJT is been spooked in the WH if the grapevine rumor is true. The ghost of Ellen Wilson climbs in bed with him. A kid, thought to be Willie Lincoln beats his bedroom wall with a stick. In the doorway, a ghost thought to be Caroline Harrison, he saw shake her finger at him, then disappear from the hallway. Eleanor Roosevelt locked him in the bathroom while he was tweeting and had to buzz for help. He complained to housekeeping many times. A couple of those have claimed to see Abe Lincoln in another section of the residence. Ghosts were identified out of a photo album. DT has posted guards by his door. He has to medicate to get a few hours of sleep. A Rusher paranormal psychic, named Nina, was brought in to investigate. Apparently she and Kelly Anne were spreading sage around Trump's quarters, and used a smudge stick over the walls and floors. DT was told to sprinkle salt at any new paranormal experience. Some preacher-shaman combo from west Texas was brought in to quote certain passages and chant prayers. The ghosts don't follow him to Mar-a-Largo. All is kept from the press to avoid embarrassment. Kelly may have a do-not-tell order.

Suppose the WH is really haunted.

All the former Presidents must be rolling over in their graves. Keep up the haunting, ladies and gents. Maybe you will drive him out.

Maybe that’s why he goes to Mar-a-Lago so much?

Where are these rumors coming from? I would love to read them. I wonder if they haunt Melania too.

I don’t believe in ghosts, but if anyone deserves to be haunted by more patriotic presidents and their families, it’s him.

Lincoln's ghost should hold a pillow over that orange nightmare's face!

You know, when you see ghosts that is your guilty conscience pulling you into "A Christmas Carol" (by Charles Dickens( scenario.

The only way Trump can now partially assuage such a wretched conscience is to confess everything: Mea Maxima Culpa.

He has no reputation to uphold, but history would judge him slightly less harshly were he to outline how he coerced his country into this quagmire. He could indeed drain the swamp he enabled.

Naturally Putin would find any such conscience business irksome, and eventually clean house accordingly. But really, Trump's life soon (now?) won't be worth living anyway, so he might as well attempt a final curtain redemption.

Where is this rumor that he's being haunted by ghosts?

[quote] The only way Trump can now partially assuage such a wretched conscience is to confess everything

To do that would require him to exhibit more character than he has shown in his entire wretched, miserable life.

R279 A bully his whole life saying sorry to the whole country? He would rather die first.

A leopard doesn't change its spot even when it's shot by a Trump.

[quote]He would rather die first.

Fingers crossed.

R284 - Yep!!

R284 Toes crossed... but make in die in jail. Dying in office makes it feel like he conned the world and got off scott free.

I don't want him to die until all the crap is uncovered. I think if he dropped dead, Pence would just slip into the position and a lot of the urgency to get this giant orange piece of shit and all the other pieces of shit that surround him in the toilet where they belong would disappear.

R287 I am uncomfortable that Pence, whose VP nomination was engineered by Manafort after all, is not more implicated. Pence is the bigger thread in the long run since he is being steadily groomed to take over even while everyone is attacking the clown in office.

Pence was head of the transition team, wasn't he?

Isn't he also documented as having been in the meeting discussing getting rid of Comey and then lying about knowing anything about it?

I have long felt that Pence is as involved and as dirty and corrupt as the rest of them -- he's just better at keeping his mouth shut in public than Orange Cheetolini is.

R290 No doubt Mother keeps his mouth sown shut. That's the problem... his low profile makes him easy to overlook in this investigation with so many lifelong crooks who are such easy preys.

When Muller's finished there's no way Pence can claim immunity from the toxins everyone else was basking in.

If he was so deeply stupid and untrustworthy that the inside dope was kept from him - yeah, right - why was he made VP in the first place?

And if he were to assert the stupid and untrustworthy defence, that's not a specially strong leadership stance. Admittedly though, a GOP precedent is now deeply established.

The only way Trump will be removed from office is the 2020 election. Even an impeachment doesn't remove him from office. A 2/3 vote of Senate is required.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Pence is as complicit as everybody else in the Trump circle. Pence should never ever get away with something like "I hardly know the guy! (Trump)". To quote something foisted upon Meryl Streep recently. (S)He knew.

David Brody wrote a new book on the faithful and spiritual Donald Trump.

So, one can swindle, bare false witness, be a serial adulterer, have a campaign showing signs of treason, rarely attends church, refuses to repent, and is beloved as an evangelical Christian because he opposes abortion, supports the gun lobby, favors tax cuts for the rich, against environmental protection, etc.

Good grief, the massive hypocrisy abounds.

Keep focusing on "hypocrisy." Ooooo, hypocrisy is baaaaaaaad. I get happy drunk on your whine.

At least you're no longer pretending to be a terribly concerned Democrat, R296. Progress.

R280, hang around the barrooms in Georgetown, a couple in Falls Curch and Alexandria, with an ear to some federal employees talking shop and Shaina stories.

What else are they saying, r298?

This is what R296 posted in another thread:

[quote]Go Dems! We need Congress to act as check and balance on this erratic prez.

Seems like we have a split personality here....

R296 generic Boris, didn't your supervisor tell you not to be drunk on vodka when you show to work to troll? She needs to fire you.

Now, hypocrisy in "Rusher" is so ordinary you wouldn't garner the term, would you?

God that Edith Wilson is still at it, huh? Once a whore always a whore

As much as I hate Pence and believe hes guilty and complicit, wouldnt it be a kick in the ass if he turned out to be the "man on the inside" .......

R303 He would he get that past Mother?

Trump had no direct knowledge or contact. Putin and Trump (and many more Dems and GOP) wanted Hillary to lose. Just cuz they both wanted the same thing (like Bernie, O'malley, Jeb, Christie) doesn't constitute collusion.

SUre, R305...

"Mother" is probable preoccupied with "that whewer"q

I already have R305 blocked as a Trump-apologist troll, btw.

R305 is also acting as a concern troll over on the Gallup thread, "Gallup officially declares : Texas Competitive." He's just terribly, terribly concerned about Democrats this year.

Pence, the tattletale Vice POTUS / POTUS (because he tattletaled on Trump)? That would be hilarious.

I blocked R305 many weeks ago.

THIS is our president

Beg to differ r305.

Pence is responsible for finding all these right wing, nut job judges. He is placing hundreds of them in our court system.

The gossip is that Manafort was told to go with Pence because the Kochs & the Evangelicals liked him & he was a low key traditional GOP politician who would reassure the party regulars who were still not comfortable with Trump going into the Convention. Pence was supposed to placate people uncomfortle with Trump.

Pence's vulnerabilities will be seen as we get closer to Flynn's dirt.

I want to know the story behind Flynn's journey into Trump's orbit. Because Trump really liked him and was very pissed off about his termination.

Karen Pence was divorced when he married her. Big no no. Counts as adultery in New Testament. Mainstream media covering this up.

If Pence became President, I don't think the majority of America would warm to him at all. Remember that when he got picked by Trump, his approval numbers in Indiana were really low. He wasn't even running again.

Trump's a fucking traitor Anyone in his orbit, including Pence will be toxic. What I want to know is, how the fuck will Congress step and do their job after all these months of Silence & capitulation. How does one do that? And how can we have any trust in them?

R305 Group Trump, Sanders, and Stein together for commonality per Putty.

Evan McMullin is the good guy. Je, Ted, and Kasich probably voted for Hillary. O'Malley withdrew early, and Kushner fucked over Christie. Oh, and Gary Johnson was clueless.

There, fixed your list.

R317 I think I saw what I'm about to write in a CNN documentary. Trump didn't know Flynn, Flynn seeked him out just like Manafort did. It's strongly believed he was sent by one of the Russian Oligarchs via Putin. Google Mke Flynn and there are all sorts of connections to Russians who might have paid him to infiltrate Trump's campaign.

Manafort didn't come out of nowhere. He'd known Trump for a lonnnng time.

Donald Trump, Roger Stone and Paul Manafort were introduced by Roy Cohn in 1979 and did real estate business together. It’s a matter of public record.

Manafort knew Roy Cohn?! That is fabulous.

Right, R324. Manafort has a condo in Trump Towers. I wonder if/how he paid for it. LOL! And you have to believe Trump knew all about Manafort's shady financial situation.

R322, Flynn is the muystery to me. If he sought Trump out and offered himself to Trump he had to have come with some impressive recommendations. Bet he & trump knew a lot of the same Russians. LOL! But I had also heard that Flynn was supporting some other Republican before Trump. I thought he was with Cruz. Which would be very interesting. Because I think Cruz is very shady. He sure did a full 360 turnaround after criticizing trump, even going into i at the convention, he has met with him, dined with him, and supports him now.

Bernie Sanders' interview.

He struggles really hard here explaining why he didn't inform his supporters about Russia supporting his campaign and simultaneously bashing Clinton.

Ugh, what a nasty fucker!

The 'Rusher' network of infiltration reached beyond the Trump campaign. A number of Congressmen and Senators have connections via pacs funded by oligarchs.

R326 Remember, Trump has a fetish for military people. Flynn had those credentials. Plus, he had been fired by Obama and he hated Hillary Clinton. I suspect whoever put Flynn up to sidling to Trump, must have also filled him in on what to say, how to sell himself, etc. And I believe he also offered any services and endorsement for free. (If anyone knows otherwise feel free to correct me).

I just noticed how much calmer and saner Twitter's trending topics have been these past few days, post troll purge. This is so much better.

He’s sweating like a whore in church, r327.

r330.....the bot purge was fake....if it were real, Trump would have lost half his followers....seriously...its been reported that at least half his followers were bots.

Trump just got a his fix rallying at CPAC. It gave him a high that should last at least a few more days. He went thru his greatest hits, "Don't worry, you'll get your wall", "Crooked Hilary", "Lock Her Up"....

..and of course those scumbag Deplorables ate it up!

Unless the US improves education there will always be a sizable proportion of deplorables, unfortunately. Good thing is they aren't in the majority, not now and not back then. That's how Bernie Sanders came in, to divide the democrats and make impressionable youngsters to not vote for Hillary.

divide and conquer

Comey, voter suppression and hacking did the rest.

Plus most Dems did not like Hillary. And ALL deplorables worship and adore President Trump.

LOL... Man, R335 is putting in [italic]serious[/italic] overtime today.

[quote]Plus most Dems did not like Hillary.

That's why she won the popular vote and beat Sanders by 3.7 million, right, idiot @ R335!

[quote]....the bot purge was fake....if it were real, Trump would have lost half his followers....seriously...its been reported that at least half his followers were bots.

It wasn't fake, R332, they just found out a way to get around it. That's why it was called #TwitterLockout - not because the accounts were deleted but because the accounts were temporarily locked.

All Twitter required to unlock them was that the suspected "bot" accounts provide a phone number to get back on.

Plus there was nothing to prevent them from making *new* accounts that bypassed this requirement.

Since these aren't random bots on someone's computer (there are companies overseas that specialize in this) and the bots are real people (who just are not who they say they are) all the companies had to do was provide phone numbers to them to get back on. Anyone can generate a fake phone number online. Since the bots come from a real company that pays their real workers and they get real revenue - it was probably easy to remedy this requirement.

Twitter has to realize the only way to get around this to require verification for all accounts on some level and for those accounts that don't get a "real person" verification there should be an option to block them out.

Humans do not like Hillary. She may have had the resume. But śhe did not command a passionate following. Her solo rallies were lackluster and poorly attended. FACT.

And here we have a Rolling Stone liberal DEMOLISHING sad sack DL Russiagate certainty.

No treason. No collusion. No removal from office. No jail. Nada. Dream on!

[quote]Humans do not like Hillary.

Sorry, dear, but the "FACT" that she won the popular vote puts the lie to your silly trolling.

As for Taibbi at Rolling Stone, he didn't DEMOLISH shit. Goldman posted some self-serving bullshit that tried to cover up Facebook's issues during the election. And Taibbi's account misses or glosses quite a few proven issues, like the lying, the meetings that weren't reported, and the obstruction of justice. And Taibbi gets the basic facts wrong about Clapper's denial on Meet the Press. Clapper was denying Trump's specific accusations about Obama wiretapping him; he was not denying that someone like Page, unrelated to the campaign, was being followed.

Whether Trump himself was personally involved in the conspiracy is not known. That there was such a conspiracy is. The guilty pleas and indictments that Mueller has revealed thus far demonstrate that quite clearly.

Nice try, though. Now tell us again just how much you want Trump to lose, won't you? We can use a good laugh.

I do want Dems to win back House, R340. That would be fun. Looks 50/50 to me at the moment.

Trump was personally involved in Russian attack. The fact the he benefitted is not germaine.

I did not say no one voted for Hillary. I said no one likes her. She was like Al Gore. A snotty bore. Fuckng her briefing books. No one cared. (Except you. But of course you are just sooooooo smart. Lol)

^^NOT personally involved. Lol.

I'm not particularly smart, dear; just smarter than you. Not that that requires much. And, sorry, but it's much higher than 50/50, as all of the data show.

I'm so glad that you've figured out this whole Russian thing. You should reach out to Mueller, as I'm certainly he'd love to hear that you've completely resolved the issue. You can save him so much time and effort.

As for your claims about Clinton, I'll put them right along side those other claims that you've been spewing today. Since you never do back anything up, and cannot back anything up, forgive us if we don't take them seriously.

Hillary had no chemistry with the public. Her solo rallies were a disgrace. She is a snotty, unappealing bore.

Mueller knows there is no collusion. No one is even suggesting it anymore.

I still say it's 50/50. We're in a new world. Today's data will look ridiculous come October 30.

Hillary lost Wisconsin AND Michigan AND Pennsylvania. To DONALD TRUMP.

Trump conspired with the Russians.....lots of public evidence supports that conclusion....and Mueller has much, much more info than we do. They are all going down....Trump, Don jr, Eric, Ivanka, Kushner, Cohen, Stone, multiple cabinet members and several dozen members of the GOP........its only just begun.

R344 is truth. Hillary bad lady. When I grow in Park Ridge in America, Baba always say for me, she say "Chip! You not to go into bed unless you check goat is locked in barn!"

My baba she scare for this bad Hillary suck the blood of goat and curdle his whole milk. Very bad lady!!

R335, R336, R339 - R345 is the same person.

[quote]Hillary had no chemistry with the public. Her solo rallies were a disgrace. She is a snotty, unappealing bore.

LOL... Whatever you say, dear.

[quote]Mueller knows there is no collusion. No one is even suggesting it anymore.

The public disagrees with you, dear, as does pretty much everyone who has looked at the available data. Of course people continue to talk about it, and with good reason. You do like making shit up, don't you?

[quote]I still say it's 50/50.

Yes, dear, we know. Too bad you don't have any data to back up that silly opinion.

[quote]We're in a new world.

Four races this year, dear; all in red territory, all won by Democrats. The "new world" looks exactly the same as 2017 did. See you in November.

[quote]R335, R336, R339 - R345 is the same person.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no.

[quote]But śhe did not command a passionate following

-- ś --

That's how you spot the foreign troll, hey R339! You got confused using the international character map?

Yeah, look at some of his other postings. He's been called out a few times for ... interesting ... word choices. And he's been all over the map in his postings today.

So much trolling for a Sunday. Makes me wonder what's coming out in the next few days. I can't wait.

R349, I concede that indications lean Dem for November. Also it is February and we are facing a Mongol hoarde. Perhaps you overestimate the degree to which moderate GOP have adjusted to him. They like the results.

His performance at CPAC was very good. He's very talented. He will say anything and his people love it.

As clever as you are, don't expect Reason to govern this new Screen Age. November will be brutal. And I do not have a prediction.

^^^UNDERestimate. Damn.

[quote] And here we have a Rolling Stone liberal DEMOLISHING sad sack DL Russiagate certainty. . . . No treason. No collusion. No removal from office. No jail. Nada. Dream on!

R339, if that is what you took away from Matt Taibbi's piece in Rolling Stone, then either (1) you have a serious problem with reading comprehension; (2) are a Russian troll; or (3) both. Let's go with both.

At no point does Taibbi say anything even remotely close to "no treason" or "no collusion." What he does say is:

[quote] He wrote that the latest indictments prove #Russiagate is "definitely a somethingburger. But what kind of somethingburger is it?" Who the hell knows? Like an iceberg, most of this story [bold]still seems to be hidden from public view.[/bold]

. . .

[quote] It's a giant land mine of a story that [bold] could go either way. . . . We just don't know, [/bold]and I know a lot of reporters from the start found the whole matter confusing, unsure of what it means.

In Mueller We Trust. I'll wait to see what the indictments say. By the way, you should probably stock up on vodka. You're really going to need it.

Hope the Russian trolls are getting their beet and vodka quotas this weekend; they've certainly earned them.

The media are obsessing (with good reason) over speculating whether Manafort will flip on Trumpito.

But here's the thing: Gates had much more contact with the WH than Manafort did. What if Mueller doesn't need Manafort's cooperation? What if Gates' testimony and information were enough to nail Trumpito?

And yes, Manafort's ties to Trumpito go back decades, and he knows all of Trump's money laundering ties.

But what if Gates has the dirt on the money laundering? What if Mueller already got it through other means?

And Gates, being Manaforts partner, was privy to probably 99.9% of what was going on.

Mueller and his team are still investigating. If they had it all, some of those indicted would not be flipping and pleading guilty to certain charges. Nobody from outside knows all the evidence that's already been collected.

I will say this. Some may be expecting too much of Mueller. Thinking dozens will be nabbed may not happen. Basically those with fundamentally air-tight cases against them will be charge.

I am not sure the investigation results will thrill some, and anger others, along party lines.

I expect the results will be mixed. A bunch of new indictments, but staggered with a few suprises.

As far as Trump and the family go, there is probably enough evidence now to file obstruction charges. As to conspiring with Russians to swing an election, there are strong indicators, i. e. Trump Tower meeting, Trumps own boasting, shady associates, etc. The Russians are not going to cooperate, so reliance will rest on documentation, financial records, wiretaps, surveillance, and witness testimony, inclusive of culprits who observed and/or participated. That task is tedious, and breaking some of them takes time. The FBI likely set-up a few informants before Mueller arrived on the scene. That could be disasterous for some Trump folks while helping others look less involved.

There is too much unknown, right now, to make big, new predictions with confidence.

[quote] But what if Gates has the dirt on the money laundering? What if Mueller already got it through other means?

He sure as hell wouldn't let Manafort or Trump know, that is for certain. If I were him I'd string them along and let them think I didn't have anything until I didn't need to do that any longer -- just to see what else turns up or develops. That's why I am so glad that the Mueller team has been able to keep all of this a secret. (Not a big surprise either because they are consummate professionals.) It drives the potential defendants crazy not knowing what a prosecutor has on them. And that tactic has the added bonus, on occasion, of causing criminals to trip up.

[quote]Perhaps you overestimate the degree to which moderate GOP have adjusted to him. They like the results.

Nope. I have "overestimated" [sic] nothing (the word you were looking for is "underestimate"). Yes, they've rallied around him but a) there aren't enough of them, and b) this has come at the detriment of many Congressional Republicans. The base likes Trump a lot more than they like their own Senators and Representatives. That does not bode well for Republicans in November; it's just one more reason why Republicans are in trouble.

Case in point: Jeff Flake. If Flake could make it through the primary, that's pretty much a guaranteed Republican hold. Flake cannot, which is just one of the reasons he's retiring. If Republicans can't get someone sane to take his place, that's a very good shot for a Democratic pickup.

[quote]His performance at CPAC was very good.

Oh, garbage. He was just reliving his campaign's greatest hits. He is [italic]still[/italic] running against Hillary! It was just one long word salad, unencumbered by anything resembling sanity or truth. He's aiming everything squarely at his base, at the minority who love him. That isn't going to fly in November.

[quote]November will be brutal.

For Republicans, yes. The only question at this point, really, is how many seats Democrats will pick up and whether that will be enough to retake the House.

Whether Trump was part of the conspiracy is still an open question. Honestly, I'm not convinced he was, at least not to the extent that we hope. He's too unreliable, too much of a "useful idiot," and lord knows he's ridiculously easy to manipulate. If I'm Putin, I'm putting people in his orbit and leaving Trump alone, counting on those I'm surrounding him with, like Manafort, Flynn, etc., to influence him.

I could easily be wrong and there certainly is reason to believe Trump knew [italic]something[/italic], like the meeting on the plane where he and others concocted that ridiculous story about his son's meeting with the Russian agent, a story that fell apart in a matter of hours.

We'll have to wait and see.

No, Trump knew exactly what was going on and was complicit.

Collusion!

As the good Americans you will read Twitter account posted by the like-minded Americans such as your self.

This little tidbit from the charging documents/indictments from last week tells us exactly where this is headed.........

Trump has not been acting like a person who is innocent. Instead, he continues to act like someone who is as guilty as hell. He pretty much admitted the obstruction charge when he talked to Lester Holt after firing Comey. While I will admit that those closest to him probably tried to keep most of the details away from the moron, he knew enough to ask the Russians -- on national television -- to please hack Hillary.

He is complicit in the crime and the cover-up.

Sure, Dump Jr is involved and never once ran to Daddy to tell him about Russians contacting him and striking a deal to get that info released. Yeah, Dump Sr. was totally clueless.

Let's not forget Dump is first being investigated for obstruction of justice. We already know he is in fact guilty of that.

R361 , the principals probably have a pretty good idea of what Mueller may have. After all, his investigators have records, correspondence e-mails, and all kinds of documents, as well as the fact that the Mueller team has been conducting interviews. They have been interviewing a lot of people. IMO, it's sort of a miracle there have been no leaks from Mueller's team, but also no leaks from the people he is investigating. The Congressional staffers were the primary leakers, but I'm thinking now we will be getting a few leaks from people who know people who hear things closer to the targets.

wtf there's more there against Trump and his corrupt family than simple obstruction. Mueller - and if not him then the AG in NY state - have oodles of evidence of years of corruption and money laundering. It was the cornerstone of the Trump family business, they are all dirty as feck and up to their eyeballs.

Anyone who thinks or says at this point that Mueller probably doesn't have much and the anti-Trump faction will be 'disappointed' is either delusional or a paid shill. I'll wait as long as it takes RMIII to lay out his cards, because you know this long investigation isn't because he can't find enough evidence lol.

[quote]wtf there's more there against Trump and his corrupt family than simple obstruction.

We're all aware of that. If you're referring to the post at R370 the point was that the initial reason he was being investigated has already been proven... he's obstructed justice. To think there's not a shit load of evidence proving the rest is ridiculous.

[quote]The Russians are not going to cooperate

You never quite know. Treason can work both ways, and there have to be informed Russians disgusted enough by Putin's regime and brave enough to feed intelligence to Western sources.

Happened in WWII, happened in The Cold War. Intelligence services naturally cultivate such impulses, so said human tendency to 'do the right thing' is unlikely to have suddenly stopped.

Keep in mind, Trump thinks Putin is his ally and will do anything to help Trump stay in power. To Putin, Trump is only a means to an end. Trump literally is Putin's puppet. Putin doesn't give a rat's ass about Trump. As much as Putin hated Hillary Clinton and Obama, he probably respected them as worthy adversaries. He as no respect whatsoever for Trump. He thinks Trump is a fool and an idiot.

In such an investigation, and life in general, information is power. It doesn't matter if Mueller needs just Gates to make the charges stick. They will stick even better with Manafort confirming them or expanding on them with further proof.

The joy is to watch these "But Hillary's Emails!" shriekers to be nailed on their own handling of their email accounts (which they thought were handled, but they weren not, because the guy in charge died before that).

"Conspiracy to defraud the United States" are key words. "Collusion" does not apply.

If the phony intellectual on this thread doesn't think the CPAC performance was strong, then he is a fool. Trump has an amazing ability to work his base into a lather. He is a talented performer. And they adore him. They are devoted to him.

Perhaps the microchip with all the collusion info on it, was sewn into 'Nune'z' nutsack during one of his nightime WH visits? Have to give it to Kel-An, she's there to provide clever ideas.

Wow. I can’t believe I one mentioned that Taibbi ALSO has lies to Moscow. I believe he lived there for five years. Here’s a fun read, just goggle that asshole.

More.

And more. I suppose it’s possible this was all a smear campaign on Taibbi, and that his writing an article stating that there is no Russiagate isinnocent, and he just happened to live in Moscow for five years.

I used to like to read Taibbi in RS, but now I have even stopped following him on Twitter.

[quote]Flynn is the mystery to me.

Another mysterious aspect of the Flynn story: In the last week, right-wing media en masse started aggressively defending him. He's a "great man" and a "true patriot" who's done nothing wrong, he only pleaded guilty because Mueller was persecuting his family and the cost of his defense was simply unsustainable.

I suspect Trump told Hannity and a few others that he's going to pardon Flynn and they're trying to lay the groundwork for it in the public's mind.

I think Trump will give multiple pardons. "There has been no collusion. There was no impact on election result. We must put this distraction behind us. Let us continue the good work of making America great again."

Then it will be up to voters in November. Impeachment depends on House majority.

Trolls here want Dems to believe they have election in the bag. I disagree.

Now I remember reading somewhere that the POTUS couldn't pardon someone connected to this case, because since he is a target of the investigation, it would b viewed as obstruction. I also read that once pardoned Flynn could not invoke the 5th Amendment against self incrimination. So a pardon is double edged., so he and Schneiderman are not going after the same crimes.

Oh. About the state of NY or VA trying the Trumps? There's a double jeopardy rule. There is speculation that Manafort and others could be charged with more crimes, but Mueller is coordinating with Schneiderman So if there are pardons at the federal level, the state of NY can charge them and try them.

Interesting article. Gets quite good towards the end. Most countries do pursue their interests.

Those fuckers should be tried in EVERY state - they've committed treason against the entire country.

Mike Flynn was a Turkish agent. Paul Manafort was a Russian agent. Carter Page was a Russian agent. Roger Stone was anyone's agent. The sons believed their old man, and so thought a treasonous backstairs deal with Putin was infinitely better than a presidency of Clinton. Jared Kushner is a plain old Real-Estate criminal, like his felonious father.

The nexus is INSANE GREED, which prompted all their actions of treason, money-laundering, taking foreign money for a political campaign, lying to Federal investigators, lying to Congress, and sundry other "crimes against the United States."

Even Mueller's BEST deal offers will include prison time.

Sounds like run of the mill greed to me.

I hope R387 is totally correct. That would be fun.

Guys like that don't really recognize the nation-state as the governing reality.

Check out this video clip of Mike Flynn BRAGGING about being the general of army of digital soldiers. Controlling information. “Citizen journalists.”

He gave this speech four days after the election.

Given what we know now about Russia’s digital disinformation campaign, it’s fucking damning.

Wow, R389. This is GOLD.

What an asshole! His comeuppance is even sweeter now. Who is arrogant? Fuck him, fucking traitor.

Maybe Flynn's lawyers are expecting more charges very soon because of Gates, Papadopoulis or Page proving more information, so R382, that might account for the right wing media raising hell. Some how Flynn or people close to him are following Trump & Manafort's lead and casting this as a political smear job.

[quote]If the phony intellectual on this thread doesn't think the CPAC performance was strong, then he is a fool.

His CPAC performance wasn't strong and it's only a fool who believes it was.

[quote] Trump has an amazing ability to work his base into a lather. He is a talented performer. And they adore him. They are devoted to him.

So? Even if you're correct (and, clearly, you're way over-stating reality) that doesn't change a damn thing. A strong performance is one that goes beyond his base. Trump cannot do that and he did not do that. Working his base into a lather ultimately hurts Trump. It doesn't help him, not does it help his fellow Republican candidates, since that rabid base turns off everyone else, including the independents they need for victory later this year and in 2020.

It'll be salutary when "Crimes against the United States" becomes the unstoppable public term uniting all Mueller's senior 'persons of interest.'

It would be difficult then to make the case to sane USA voters that there's any intention to MAGA, when you've spent years and years committing serious crimes - treason - against the very country you pretend to improve.

R394, for many of the Trump supporters MAGA means "Making America White Again." That's how they measure "greatness." The restoration of White Power as they define it. They don't care what he does to them as long as they can have that.

The Trump base isn't ALL of America (not even half of it) and the rest of the US is fed up being held hostage by Trump and his co-conspirators and that includes the Republican Party as a whole.

They keep saying he has 35 of Americans, but he doesn't. I believe he has less. I believe even a lot of the people who voted for him are finally waking up. It takes different issues to reach someone. Maybe you liked his taxc uts but you're horrified by the school shooting. Maybe you are pissed off at him for his decisions affecting Environmental issues. Little by little people are beginning to realize. And I think family and friends affects them. If you are a Tump supproter and your kids are pissed off and angry about school shootings and environmental deregulation, yo might think twice.

35%. my keyboard keeps skipping a lot lately.

If Nancy Pelosi wins back House and she impeached Trump, do you think the Senate will remove him from office?

R399, given the information we have now, no. You need 2/3 of the Senate and Republicans have shown repeatedly that they are unifying behind him. They will not give him up.

Now if Mueller does find that smoking gun, who knows? Even then, I think it would be iffy, given today's Republican Party.

So winning back the House doesn't automatically make Hillary the retroactive winner of 2016?

[quote]Even then, I think it would be iffy, given today's Republican Party.

Even if today’s Republican Party is comprised of many who may go to jail for aiding and abetting a hostile foreign power that has been proven to have rigged a US presidential election in their favor?

IF and WHEN Mueller finds the smoking gun (and he will), and it the House/Senate does not remove him, there will be protests the like of which this country has never seen. It will be the true definition of a Constitutional Crisis.

If you're presented with evidence of a crime and you fail to act isn't that a crime.? I mean, this is a Prosecutor. He is investigating. He finds enough evidence and he goes to a grand jury and they review and question and decide he has enough evidence to charge people with a crime.

So he makes his report to Rosenstein and Rosenstein then has to go to the Speaker to tell him the President has been charged with a crime. Now ordinarily Rosenstein would go directly to the POTUS but if the POTUS is the subject of the investigation how does that wok? Does he talk to Ryan instead?

Now if the Speaker or the Attorney General fails to act that's a crime too, isn't it? I guess what's important is public opinion. Because if the public is outraged and the GOP looks like they're going down, they might act. OTOH, look how the GOP is reacting to the school shootings. There is real outrage and people are demonstrating their anger, yet the GOP is not moving. There is no sense of urgency and this is about the lives of kids.

Congress GOP "explanations" why they don't investigate Trump finances include gems like this:

Natasha Bertrand‏ @NatashaBertrand Retweeted Manu Raju

"I don't see the link at this stage," said Rep. Mike Conaway, the Texas Republican leading the House Russia investigation. "Deutsche Bank is a German bank -- I don't see the nexus."

I think it would be up to Supreme Court to determine if sitting president can be indicted.

House majority determines meaning of word "crime" in impeachment proceedings.

Crime is in the eye of the beholder.

AMEN 396!!!

"I don't see the link at this stage," said Rep. Helen Keller.

R405 Republicans acting dumb is pretty much their whole defense play. And then Faux News will disseminate the talking points to their deplorable zombies to repeat all over social media like they have a brain and thought of it themselves.

That's why the conservative media puts all these lies about Rosenthal and Mueller out there so the Senate can go "Well, I saw on FOX News that they at totally biased against Trump, so no, we are not taking their word for it that Trump has committed crimes and treason!".

WTF? sorry, I meant RosenSTEIN (not Rosenthal).

[quote]So winning back the House doesn't automatically make Hillary the retroactive winner of 2016?

Run along, troll; the adults are talking.

[quote]Trump has an amazing ability to work his base into a latherlather.

His base is a minority, that's why few people came to his inauguration compared to Obama's in 2009.

And it's even lower now, R413, which is why this talk about Trump's base is kinda stupid. Of course, if you look at that particular troll's posting history, "kinda stupid" pretty much sums it up.

[quote]Trump has an amazing ability to work his base into a latherlather.

This ability in four easy steps: 1) Serve them back what Faux News and talk radio has already brainwashed them with. 2) Spice it up with rightwing conspiracy theories, bigotry and intolerance. 3) Use 300-word vocab. 4) Blame Obama and impugn Hillary.

sThe media has been doing this since way back a few election cycles ago. They gave so much weight and credibility to the Roger Ailes fake movement called the Tea Party that eventually the sheeple bought in to it. They are giving Trump supporter way too much weight and credibility now. Then you have event like the inauguration and it make the media look stupid. Media like to create opposition so they have the "horse race " contest version of political opposition.

And recently look how easily all the news media were manipulated into the hype around the bullshit Nunes memo. They were all duped and look even dumber that Faux News. I call it "shiny object journalism." But that type of slop is killing our democracy.Thank goodness the younger generation is smart enough to look beyond our borders and travel and appreciate that other countries don't go through this bullshit. Starting with Canada. Every country has issues and problems. But no where are there more people exposed to "news" 24/7 who ar e irredeemably stupid.

If you watched Trump's progress over his campaign, what you saw was a basic feedback loop. He doesn't have any specific ability to "work his base into a lather." All he did was listen to the applause and chants. If an attack line got applause, he kept it. If it didn't, he stopped. The more extreme he got, the more applause he got, in a cycle that has culminated in where the conservative movement is today.

All he did at last week's CPAC was recycle his applause lines.

His MO is to go to small controlled rallies of hard-core supporters in Hicktown/Nowhereville, and create the illusion that he is "popular" and a "crowd pleaser". Then Faux News/social media does the rest of amplifying the illusion. He could never go to a real big city and speak to a diverse crowd... not without being shouted off the stage.

"That awful man can say his slimy snake story.

But I got a mongoose named Impeach for his bullshit."

R418, you realize Trump is the legal, sitting president. Not an illusion.

And his ability to work them into a lather is a talent. That energy he generates is wild, intense and not going away for a long time. (Contrast with energy around Romney or McCain.). So my question is this: how to we prevent them from becoming ISIS in 50 years? If we grind Trump into dust and humiliate his supporters, then what?

How can we land this plane slowly?

BTW, I'm an RFK guy. That's my eternal candidate. (FDR is my other fav.)

This is significant.

Republican leaders in Congress are resisting/refusing to subpoena Trump's bank records, tax returns, or send letters to witnesses to determine if Trump has financial links to Russian actors. They claim Democrats are on fishing expeditions.

If financial connections are off the table, then there is little else available to find the facts. This is a tactic to protect DJT and their own members who have received money from Russian sources via pacs and perhaps other means.

Smart of GOP. They don't want the dirt to come out. This is narrative warfare. The whole story will look very bad.

Mueller doesn't have to go through congress. They should just disband the senate and house investigations, what a waste of taxpayer money.

[quote]you realize Trump is the legal, sitting president. Not an illusion.

Yes, troll, we do. That doesn't change any of this commentary.

[quote]And his ability to work them into a lather is a talent.

No, it really isn't. Take a look at r417, which you have no answer for.

[quote]BTW, I'm an RFK guy. That's my eternal candidate. (FDR is my other fav.)

LOL.... Yeah, right. You do realize, moron, that we can see your posting history, right? You're a troll, and a genuinely incompetent one at that.

[quote]And his ability to work them into a lather is a talent

R418 specifically called out "a diverse crowd." What he does only works with the rabid base, not with those who are not already foaming at the mouth.

Who are they to say where Muellers investigation ends?

Don't give it any tips, R424.

[quote]Who are they to say where Muellers investigation ends?

They aren't. This is about their own investigations and it reinforces even more just how much Mueller is needed. Without Mueller, there is no investigations. Congressional Republicans are more interested in protecting Trump than they are in protecting the country. Big surprise, I know.

He's a talented performer. Good timing, catch phrases, applause lines. Good command of winning material, funny, vicious turns. Plays his crowds well. George Wallace was also masterful with them.

I'm not saying I like the content. But you really don't acknowledge his performing ability?

Look. I admire Schiff and the Senate Committee and the other Dems on the House Committee. Judiciary was looking at it too and I think there was one other committee looking at the Trump Russia 2016 Election stuff. But here's my concern. Any other President would have appointed a bi partisan commission just like the 9/11 Commission to investigate the Russian interference and attendant social media stuff. That commission ought to have had hearings in every damned state to review standards and practices related to how we conduct our elections and the remedies we need to enact to stop this hacking or at least make it much more difficult.

But since President Shithole did not do this. I was under the impression the Committees of Congress ought to be doing it. So the Intel Committee should not really be trying to duplicate or run an investigation of Trump parallel to what Mueller is doing, but as is their mission, to find out what happened and how we can prevent it in the future. Now I know there will be some overlaps and they need to consult regularly with Mueller's team to make sure they don't impede a criminal investigation. But I get the distinct impression the Congressional committees are floundering at least in part because they don't have a clear understanding of WTF they ought to be doing. Having imbeciles like Nunes in charge and an impotent evil bastard like Ryan, doesn't help the situation.

Once Mueller charges Trump with crimes, then it is up to Ryan to order the House Judiciary to start creating Articles of Impeachment, based on the findings and after the Judiciary Committee has reviewed the findings. Then there is a trial in the Senate presided over by the Chief Justice.

it is absolutely critical that we elect Dems this November. Absolutely. We need the party that understands government and doesn't hate it, to come in and restore order to the Congress which is filthy with corrupt leadership. I hope more GOP members announce their retirement.

The reason given for the initial investigations was to examine if there foreign intrusion in the 2016 election, and find ways (legislation, funding, methodology, etc.) to counter and prevent it going forwward. Congress can't focus hard on any part of that, let alone advance solutions to be reasily enacted.

Wonder how many in Congress silently want what happened in 2016, to also happen in 2018 and 2020, assuming their party will benefit again in the tallied votes?

[quote]He's a talented performer. Good timing, catch phrases, applause lines.

No. There is no reality where he is a "talented performer." His timing sucks and so does his delivery. He repeats shit, he rambles, and he comes up with the most bizarre non-sequiturs. Hell, half the time, he himself doesn't even know what the fuck he's saying.

[quote]But you really don't acknowledge his performing ability?

How can we "acknowledge" what doesn't exist?

ya know, comparing Trump to Nixon: Nixon was horrible, but he had something beyond himself. He actually had a view of foreign policy and how he could fit into it. He actually had a vision of US-Soviet relations, and US-China relations. He even had a feeling that whatever it took to get him there, he deserved to be President because he could actually do something about the world, including the Vietnam War. Much of it was selfish shit, but there was a goal. With Trump there is no goal but his own stupid self-interest. Just the next grift, the next condo, the next money laundering scheme. nothing else. Trump has never ever thought about anything but himself, and that is so much worse.

[quote] Just wondering - without googling and having to read various federal and/or state legislation: So - what are the terms of manfort’s home detention?

His release conditions should be online somewhere. I'd look it up on PACER but I'm on the wrong computer. In any event, it can be anything the judge specifies. Sometimes this kind of release is monitored by pretrial services and they can make some determinations regarding exceptions. He can most assuredly leave his home to visit his attorneys in their offices and medical care and probably church. Don't be so sure he can hang out in his yard.

Home detention is just that. You stay home. It's not prison.

[quote]Trolls here want Dems to believe they have election in the bag. I disagree.

ffs stop. It's nearly in hand, if momentum continues as is, and there's no reason to believe it won't. Four red seats flipped blue in as many months doesn't support your assertion of 'trolling. Nice try.

[quote]I think Trump will give multiple pardons.

never heard of state charges being unpardonable, have we? Go back and read the thread.

I read the other day that he requested permission to travel to NYC for the funeral of his father-in-law. Never found out whether they permitted it. I'd send his ass in chains. No way would he be going to NYC Which is crawling with Russian mobsters.

Yeah, he's a pretty obvious troll, R436, and an unusually prolific one, posting on several threads and trying different lines of attack to see if he can find anything that will stick.

[quote] So my question is this: how to we prevent them from becoming ISIS in 50 years? If we grind Trump into dust and humiliate his supporters, then what?

Then NOTHING. They are American citizens like the rest of us, they carry on with their lives, abide by our laws and continue to hold whatever crazy views they want. They are the distinct minority, and the rest of us don't need to *cater* to them and their crazy bs.

If they foment violence or trouble of any sort, they go to prison. Period. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. If there are large numbers of them, no biggie: we build many more prisons to hold them, JUST like we did for all the so-called 'angry black men' we've been incarcerating at huge rates for the past several years. Institutionalized imprisonment of those the majority disdains and feels a nuisance is the American Way and has been forever. Costly, but hey.

No mercy here.

Thanks I'm aware r438. Just that there are always new impressionable people here who drop in to read these threads, and any nutty assertion here should at least have an attempt at sane rebuttal. Just keeping it fair and balanced! (lol).

We need to enforce some fucking laws and we need to re instate some damned laws so these fucking Deplorables will understand they are either going to obey or pay dearly. And hate speech should be illegal. I've had enough o this incendiary shit. zero tolerance.

The post that R439 responded to was one of the troll's more bizarre attempts on this thread. I mean, seriously, that's the line he's going with in R420? I did love his pathetic attempt to ingratiate himself by claiming that he's an "RFK guy." Wow....

Is Khrushev candidate, R442. the last liberal he can imagine.

[quote]how to we prevent them from becoming ISIS in 50 years?

This is batshit. You're admitting that Trump supporters are bloodthirsty psychos with no intellectual or sane grounding, comparing them to ISIS. If this is how they are, why the hell are we letting them influence anything for the rest of us now? Cull the herd, early. Draw them out and make the killshot. Seriously.

this is what happens when you vote Republican. this is what always happens. on any level. congress, state legislature, city council. every republican in every election is a cunt at heart. treat them like rabid dogs. it's the only way.

People love voting for a winner.

CNN poll: Dems lead by 18 points on generic ballot

Oh shit, never mind, I fucked up and linked the wrong article.

This is the one I meant to link too. This is recent.

CNN poll: Democratic advantages grow ahead of 2018 midterms

[quote] There is no reality where he is a "talented performer." His timing sucks and so does his delivery. He repeats shit, he rambles, and he comes up with the most bizarre non-sequiturs. Hell, half the time, he himself doesn't even know what the fuck he's saying.

Indeed. What we get is a sanitized version of his speeches -- the "highlights" such as they are -- where he delivers some incendiary line about Obama or Hillary and the crowd goes wild. But, if you listen to the whole thing, it is hardly spellbinding. He is not a great orator. He is not someone would can whip any crowd into a frenzy with his skills. He is fundamentally stupid and can't stick to a thought for more than a few sentences, and frequently wanders from one irrelevant, unconnected topic to another. He is -- at best -- a mediocre performer who's talents have been greatly over-hyped by a mostly friendly media. He lives on soundbites with the insane ramblings edited out.

The only room he can hold is one with a carefully selected group of die-hard supporters. That is a dwindling base of willfully blind and ignorant old bigots whose ranks grow smaller with each passing week.

Here's a link to a transcript of that CPAC speech that our troll found to be so spellbinding.

What are the chances that if the Democrats do take back the House after the fall elections and return Nancy Pelosi to the speakership again, that she won't just declare "impeachment is off the table" again like she did the last time?

[quote] performer "whose" talents

Ugh.

[quote] What are the chances that if the Democrats do take back the House after the fall elections and return Nancy Pelosi to the speakership again, that she won't just declare "impeachment is off the table" again like she did the last time?

If Mueller presents the Democrats with irrefutable evidence of treason and obstruction of justice, there will be no "impeachment is off the table." Even for Pelosi. This is an entirely different situation than the one that we faced in 2006. We had no Special Counsel then. If Trump thinks this is going to be a repeat of what happened to Bu$h, he is sadly mistaken. I don't believe Pelosi will make that statement again. And if she did, she would put at risk her chance of being elected Speaker.

🙄🙄🙄🙄

R451 is just concern-trolling.

R451 During the election, the Dem voters would let it be known that they want impeachment... Even Nancy couldn't ignore that. And I think the Dem Congressmen would find out who is for impeachment before they select the Speaker. The only obstacle would if he the Dem donors manipulate the party into putting off impeachment. But I don't see that happening, the donors, the voters and the rank and file will want blood after 2 years of this shit.

I hope so r455

r451, you do realize that if she becomes Speaker, that she is third in line for the presidency? I would love to have a first female president by default.

And then she can make Hillary vice president to kill off Trump once and for all when his entire body explodes and all that's left is a greasy, orange smear with a pile of hair on top of it.

Perhaps Trump didn’t realize that his campaign was being run by alleged Russian money launderers, that at least two of his foreign policy advisers had entanglements with Russian intelligence, and that his campaign had a heads up about Russian plans to dump stolen Clinton emails online. None of last week’s new information proves that Trump is too disloyal to his own country to be president. But the only alternative is that he’s too clueless.

Conspirator AND Sucker (of Vladimir) AND Greedy Scoundrel.

well he's up tweeting about Russia and witch hunt!

Those catty hefers----Miss Cotton and Miss Miller.

This is war!

Theoretically, I agree R459. But it makes me thnk.

I've done a lot of campaigns. State & Presidential. Most candidates, even Mike Huckabee don't wake up one morning and decide they're running for President. Most. discuss it with their closest friends, people they trust for advice, & they plan for it, & line up their backers ($$$) . This is my own scenario of what may have happened. Trump & his buddies were kicking around the idea of running since at least 2007. Trump was probably toying with it much earlier. At some point he crossed the line between toying with it to seriously considering it, probably by the mid 90's. At the same time, he was up to his ass with Russians. Russian oligarchs with hundreds of millions of $$$ at a time when Trump was tap dancing close to bankruptcy, on the verge of going belly up.

As for "trusted friends", Roger Stone and Roger Ailes were at the top of that list. Roger Stone was in business with Charles Black and Paul Manafort. They ran campaigns, they consulted with foreign governments and foreign "businessmen" and they knew a lot. They probably advised Trump on logistics, how to set up a campaign, who to hire, what to do. Corey Lewandowski was an old Trump retainer, but someone recommended Kelly Anne Conway to him even as she was kicking his ass on Network TV at least once a week. She knew polling and issues and focus groups. ( she probably was desperate to get in on it once she knew Trump was wired up to win. (Her husband has Russian "clients.")

Trump didn't plan on winning. At first. But delusional as ever, he was soon persuaded to feel it was possible, especially with Russian help. Guys like Trump never go into anything clean. They always wire things up, fix it, so they will come out ahead. That's how he operates. He knew he didn't need to spend his own money if he could rely on free media.. He also didn't build a 50 state operation until after the primaries, except for rallies. As for issues? I'd bet Ailes , Stone, Manafort and eventually Steve Bannon were developing his issues.

Russians were part of his world long before he announced his candidacy. I believe it was Putin's oligarchs at Putin's behest, who convinced Trump to run because he could win. I believe the Russians were already busy throwing big money around to members of Congress to block & disrupt Obama, and harass Clinton, and even to see which other GOP Presidential candidate might be a willing agent. Most important the Russian gov't was studying our electoral system. (Putin wanted to stop Hillary at all costs, and he would've backed a fucking Chimpanzee to do it..... and he did!)

Trump had Russian backing from the earliest stages of his campaign, and they intended to win, sending people here to learn it and figure it all out as early as 2015. Bannon wisely avoided a lot of core campaign people, and they avoided him, because he leaked, & ideologically, he was Breitbart. But he and the Mercers, using polling and social media campaigns, & Cambridge Analytica's data were mining voter behavior and Jared was assigned to "help." Bannon had to be aware of Russian involvement. People talk. Trump liked Bannon's theory of tearing down the GOP and rebuilding it in Trump's image which Bannon conflated with Breitbart's.

Later, Bannon's operation and the Russian hackers cooerated whether Bannon realized it or not. Because of his efforts with propaganda and social media, there was a narrowing of the race, especially after Comey's October surprise, which made hacking the individual states by the Russian operation a lot easier. Bottom line, Trump knew the Russians were involved, he welcomed it and he and his family (they all knew a lot of Russians) conspired with the Russians to interfere or do whatever was necessary to help Trump win.

R459: NO, that does not explain why Trump is afraid to say or do anything against Putin, all the secret (and not so-secret meetings) with Russians (Trump included), Trump telling the Russians to find the missing Clinton emails or that he had damning info on Clinton right around the time Jr. met with the Russians! Trump is knee deep in this Russian shit to his eyeballs with full knowledge of what was and is going on. He is not as stupid or clueless as you want to believe... BTW, neither is Pence (he just has a lot more chill with his shit and he's the GOP's backup plan).

R463: Exactly!

"I'm an RFK guy. That's my eternal candidate. (FDR is my other fav.)"

I *heart* you, r420.

RFK is my favorite politician ever as well. The RFK that ran for President was a remarkable candidate. It took him awhile and a lot of tragedy to become that person, however. But he is the only person I can think of that could solve most of America's problems right now.

I wonder if "With hunt" is our Dear Leader's shortest tweet ever.

Trump followed by Pence & 'Mother' will not be a delightful experience.

Pence wants to eradicate and not just abortions.

PENCE doesn’t have Trump’s psycho base.

And he’s just as dirty re: Russia as the rest.

He won’t make it

R463 Fantastic post!

Your mini essay was concise and articulated better than any other I've seen or read in the major news outlets. If it was published, I bet Lawrence O'Donnell would put you on his show. (meant as a compliment although you might not be a fan).

The Atlantic: The emphasis placed on whether the Trump team colluded with Russia to interfere in the election threatens to overshadow the scandal in plain sight.

Collusion with Russia may or may not turn out to be a real scandal, depending on what Mueller finds, but it is not the only scandal. The scale of dishonesty and criminality that is now apparent is an enormous scandal in its own right.

Every administration ends up producing examples of corruption and lying, but most presidents take years, and often more than one term, to produce a ledger even half so extensive as what Trump has managed in barely a year in office. It’s an old trope to imagine how lonely the Greek philosopher Diogenes, who famously walked around with a lamp seeking an honest man, would feel visiting the American capital. In Trump’s Washington, even the hard-bitten cynic might despair.

Rick Wilson‏ @TheRickWilson

Something is coming down hard on Grandpa Ranty if the last 12 hours of tweets are any indication.

Re: R459 link pic, notable how drained and aged, how melting waxwork, 'POTUS' now looks. Being him can't be any fun at all. He really thought he could get clean away with it all, and it's just not happening. Sad!

Hope Hicks is testifying before the House Intel Committee. CNN's Manu Raju‏ reports:

House Intel Dem Mike Quigley told us that Hicks is not answering questions about her time in WH and transition

She has not explicitly asserted exec priv but is following WH playbook not to answer questions, he said.

She has NOT been hit with a subpoena but she should be, he said

R463 here. I love Lawrence O Donnell. But please keep in mind, my "essay" was simply a scenario I hypothesized. It is pure speculation but it is based on the facts as I know them from all that I've seen and read over the past two or three years. I posted it so you all can correct it, or fill in with more theories, dispute it or confirm it. My guess is that Trump was running his own campaign much like his family business, with his kids and a few loyal retainers . That's why it's ridiculous to assume he knew nothing about Russian involvement.

As for Flynn, he was flitting around looking for a place to land. He claims he interviewed several candidates before he made his decision to back Trump. I wish some investigative journalist would look in to that. He started his anti Obama attacks in 2014, after he left the administration. But I have to wonder. At what point did Michael Flynn start "consulting" with foreign governments. At what point did he rise to a level of prominence to justify a seat at Putin's Table for a Russian Media event? At what point does he hook up with the gas & oil interests in the Soviet Union and start engineering deals with oligarchs, talking to them on the phone while watching Trump take the Oath of Office? Planning to kidnap some guy for Erdogan in Turkey was small time compared to that.

GREAT post, R463.

Is this the big news that set Ceetolini off? Gates already plead guilty to charge 1-4 and 11-14, and these charges were dismissed without prejudice, so they can be refiled.

Mueller's team has officially proposed dismissing charges against RICK GATES, following last week's guilty plea.

US Cyber Command chief Adm. Mike Rogers told lawmakers on Tuesday that he has not been granted the authority by President Donald Trump to disrupt Russian election hacking operations where they originate.

R463 is the OG - great post!

Kushner loses access to Dumps daily briefings.

^not that that means anything.

r480, sorry for asking, but what does OG stand for?

Pundits are guessing that stopping Kushners clearance now means the WH is aware that something is about to break in the Mueller case re Kushner and they're trying to get ahead of it.

R463 has her heart in the right place, but is incorrect. She describes a conspiracy as a coherent operation. I will do her the service of offering a few points.

The campaign was a clusterfuck of shady characters, side deals, Bannon bullshit, and a stampeding herd of poor whites. Putin wanted to smack Hillary. He wants to weaken the USA moving forward, it was a pile-on.

But It is a mistake to attribute some intelligent design to this perfect storm. And I think Trump understood that Putin was hitting Hillary. But not in some specific, coordinated way that he was in on.

And the notion that he had been carefully planning this since 2007 is preposterous.

Yeah, I'm more in the camp of R485 than R463. Trump doesn't have the discipline or brains to mount a coherent conspiracy.

Trumpito's inability to coordinate a conspiracy doesn't mean he's not part of one.

That fucking campaign received a year's worth of weapon's-grade shadiness in 2016 and never once contacted law enforcement. That should enough to drag them into conspiracy charges.

And there is reams of additional information we just don't know yet.

I had R485 on block already, for what that’s worth.

I’m also instantly suspect of any posts that say something along the lines of “Of course Trump didn’t know anything! To think otherwise is just absurd!”

[quote]I’m also instantly suspect of any posts that say something along the lines of “Of course Trump didn’t know anything! To think otherwise is just absurd!”

That's not at all what R485 said.

You haven't missed anything by blocking him, r488. If you look at his polling history, he's been persistently trolling this and other threads. He's the idiot who has been trying to convince us of Trump's fantasmagorical rhetorical skills. His past history shows that he can't quite make up his mind what he supports, as he's been all over the map.

Yeah I blocked that cunt a while ago.

[quote]R463 has her heart in the right place, but is incorrect.

Then by all means rebut the points raised in that earlier post, R485. Evasion and counter-assertion, as you're doing here, doesn't do that.

[quote]She describes a conspiracy as a coherent operation.

Based on everything we've heard thus far, that is exactly what it was. How deeply Trump himself was enmeshed in that conspiracy remains an open question.

[quote]The campaign was a clusterfuck of shady characters, side deals, Bannon bullshit, and a stampeding herd of poor whites.

None of that rules out a conspiracy. In fact, a clusterfuck may well have been the intention of some components of that conspiracy. The rest of your assertions weren't worth the trouble to address.

I still believe Trump knew about Putin's meddling BUT didn't trust that it would be enough to give him the win (hence all the big talk about starting his own TV channel, with lots and lost of Trump merch for sale I am sure, to stay in contact with his Deplorable audience). Trump knew that his Deplorables were not enough to give him the win and he knew that he didn't appeal to anyone beyond the Deplorables. Maybe he counted on Sanders to take away some voters away from Hillary, but I still think he was more sure to lose than sure that he would win.

I think only after the election it dawned on him that he's now Putin's bitch and having to make good on a lot of (empty) promises he gave Putin, and Russia, when he needed money.

I look at it this way: I'm prepared to stop believing that Trump has something to hide the day he stops trying to obstruct justice and stops acting precisely as though he has something to hide.

Now whether that "something to hide" is something as prosaic as money-laundering or whether it's something akin to treason, I have no way of knowing. For that, we need Mueller to complete his investigation.

When you see someone surrounded by criminals by his own choice, and squirming under investigation, the idea that they are innocent and a victim requires a lot of brainwashing.

Yeah, it's like believing Batman's Joker is innocent, because he is surrounded by all sorts of goons who apparently do their own thing and do not follow Joker's orders.

Trump better explain to Junior and Eric what he meant by WITCH HUNT. Don't want them firing their elephant guns at Sarah & Kelly Anne having lunch in the park.

Per the Washington Post, four countries privately discussed ways to manipulate Kushner.

[quote]Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.

[quote]Among those nations discussing ways to influence Kushner to their advantage were the United Arab Emirates, China, Israel and Mexico, the current and former officials said.

[quote]It is unclear if any of those countries acted on the discussions, but Kushner’s contacts with certain foreign government officials have raised concerns inside the White House and are a reason he has been unable to obtain a permanent security clearance, the officials said.

[quote]Kushner’s interim security clearance was downgraded last week from the top-secret to the secret level, which should restrict the regular access he has had to highly classified information, according to administration officials.

I think we can safely assume that a 5th country was involved....

Theyre saying that Trump doesnt want to get involved....he said publicly it would be Kellys call....so he can claim plausable deniability if something comes out that Kushner is implicated in.

The Republicans in Congress have declared Trump is off limits pertaining to any of his financial dealings and shenanigans. Sounds like a kangaroo court in a third world dictatorship.

I'm at work, but did Mueller just drop the charges against Gates?

Trump is underhanded. He has always been dishonest, lying and underhanded. That's all he ever needed to be to scheme to win the Presidency. He didn't need to be intelligent. But anyone who thinks he is stupid is sorely mistaken. He has the low cunnning of a grifter and a con artist. And he has an inner circle he trusts and he listens to them. Roger Ailes is dead, but he probably schooled Trump a lot.So did Rudy Giuliani. Don't forget about him. The details, and the intricacies of the plotting came from other people in his orbit. But he definitely co-signed the general concept. " Russia wants to help they will devote money and expertise " Period.

BTW: His Digital guy from 2916 just announced as his campaign director for 202 and indicated he'd also be helping with 2018. Since they are very open about the fact that nothing has been done to stop the interfeerence in 2018, and they have openly admitted Russia is still meddling, ask yourself what do you think their plansare? Because if you bellieve they are going to let the Dems Blue Wave sweep over them and take the House you're nuts. They are up to something.

Sorry..... His digital guy from 2016...

In 13 states it is not even possible to do a paper audit; and no way of proving machine totals were altered or not.

I'm in Georgia and we still use Diebolt, no paper, and we had a scandal with our Secretary of State wiping servers that were under investigation. It stinks. And there is no Eric Holder in the Attorney General's office to insist we do something about it.

R501, the charges were dropped “without prejudice”, so Mueller can refill them if he needs to.

Oh R502, you heretic. Don't you know these DL brainiacs have already announced a huge victory this fall. They have decided it's over already. They have data, reasons, analysis. (I adore analysis.). They're like those smug assholes on POD SAVE AMERICA. So don't waste your breath with street smarts. No doubt they have an algorithm. Oh and some insult for anyone who doesn't sign on to their fantasy.

LOL... You're still trying that terribly clumsy trolling, aren't you, R507? Free clue for you: changing your IP address or switching to a new computer, as you've done, doesn't work unless you can figure out how to not troll the same way you've been trolling these past few days.

Do tell us again how wonderful Trump is at working his base into a lather, won't you? And how terribly fond you are of RFK. We can use a good laugh.

NBC News: The U.S. intelligence community developed substantial evidence that state websites or voter registration systems in seven states were compromised by Russian-backed covert operatives prior to the 2016 election — but never told the states involved, according to multiple U.S. officials.

Top-secret intelligence requested by President Barack Obama in his last weeks in office identified seven states where analysts — synthesizing months of work — had reason to believe Russian operatives had compromised state websites or databases.

Three senior intelligence officials told NBC News that the intelligence community believed the states as of January 2017 were Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Texas and Wisconsin

CNN Chyron: "Breaking News: Mueller Probes Trump's Russian Business Dealings Prior To 2016 Presidential Campaign."

Thanks, R506.

He dropped the fraud charges in Virginia. The DC charges still stand. But Muelller must have been handed some real incriminating Trump info - to drop all those fraud charges.

[quote] Perhaps Trump didn’t realize that his campaign was being run by alleged Russian money launderers, that at least two of his foreign policy advisers had entanglements with Russian intelligence, and that his campaign had a heads up about Russian plans to dump stolen Clinton emails online.

It doesn't matter. Once you join a criminal conspiracy you don't need to know all the other co-conspirators nor do you need to know all the other criminal activites by them. You join, you're stuck with all of them and all of their activites (reasonably foreseeable ).

After you plead guilty the government either drops the remaining charges at the time of the plea or more likely they get dropped at sentencing. These are obviously conditional dismissals which means they can be rebrought if Gates violates his plea terms. Plus he wants his cooperator's letter for sentencing which can reduce his sentence.

Let's cut to the chase:

Trump, he of NYC/NJ casinos and other construction, had to "work with," let's call them unsavory characters, probably all from Brighton Beach. Borrower, "protection" payer, briber, corners-cutter, welcher---that was just business to The Donald. Survival, even.

Finding a businessman-celebrity of no morals, one moreover beholden to his, Putin's, cronies in the US, Putin YEARS ago had an epiphany and saw The Larger Picture: His Moscow Candidate in the White House.

And Putin went for it: Getting Trump into serious money-laundering; snaring him with Ye Olde Honey Trap; threatening him. Setting up all sorts of media trolling. Hacking. Vote-tampering.

Finally, after the rigged election, convincing (ordering?) Trump to put Russian agents in his Inner Circle, altering the Republican Platform statement on Ukraine, and inveigling his sons and son-in-law by offering "dirt on Hillary".

Speaking of whom: Hillary was never more accurate than when she called Trump "Putin's puppet."

Mueller team asks about Trump's Russian business dealings as he weighed a run for president

Warning: The video I got was Trump blathering about being tough on Russia. I had to stop it before I punched my screen.

NY Times: Hope Hicks acknowledges she sometimes tell white lies for President Trump

Either DJT is afraid of Putty because Putin knows something extraordinary against him and can blackmail; or, DJT is madly in love with Vladimir.

From the looks of it, perhaps both.

Trump got rich off Putin. Putin brought economic stability to Trump. And Putin made sure Trump understood that it's quid pro quo. Reciprocity. Trump is Putin's bitch.

OP, hunny, we need to start thinking about the title for the next thread . We sure are runnin' through these fast.

[quote]OP, hunny, we need to start thinking about the title for the next thread . We sure are runnin' through these fast.

"Beyond A Treasonable Doubt".

^got that one on the list already! Thanks.

R516 She does more tell white lies for Donnie...

Hope takes white loads from Donnie.

R523 That's a lie! (It's orange.)

Whoops. Incorrectly signed by name at R524.

Two more state legislature seats flipped from red to blue today, in New Hampshire and Connecticut. We're up to 39 since the 2016 election and we're 6 out of 6 in 2018, all in red districts.

Have we done "Treason to Believe" yet?

In Treason We Trust

You Can't Reason With Treason

With Friends Like This Who Needs Treasons?

A Change of Treasons

The March of Treason!

As the author of the original two or three “Treason” threads, what the new thread is named is fine with me as long as there’s wordplay involving the treasonous behavior of The Great Pumpkin (always enjoy a new treason pun — the last few have been really great).

All I ask is that a link to the new thread is provided in the final posts of this one, and that a link to to this one is provided in the original post of the upcoming threads.

Most of the time folks do it, and it is greatly appreciated and allows people to find the new thread even though they only have the old thread bookmarked. It also allows continuity of arguments/points from the old thread.

Traitors of the Lost Arc

Traitor Joes

Traittoria Cheetolini

"Welcome to Traittoria Cheetolini, what will it be today?"

I propose that whatever we name the new thread, we don't spend 30% of it talking about the next thread title.

Axios is saying that Javanka is "in a death match" with Kelly. According to WH sources. This is one I hope Kelly wins. If the previous reports are true, didn't Trump want them to go home? This was last Fall, I believe that there were rumors Trump wanted them out because there was too much crap going on. Whatever. Anything that weakens his position is great with me and I think this will weaken it.

Also meant to say that on MSNBC last night they were interpreting Trump's comment that "General Kelly will decide" on the same day Kelly lowered JAred's clearance level to "Interim Secret" as Trump telling Jared in a not too subtle way that it was time to go home.

I want Kelly to lose big time to Javanka. Then Javanka can go after Trumpie gets sick of protecting J.

"Dad, those Panamanians are not listening to us about our hotel down there. Do something."

Remarkable just typing the basic word 'treason' to google news, and finding the first seven stories involve Trump. Thirteen months in, and he's synonymous with the word. Such times.

If DL was a magazine it would declare R463 as Poster of The Year in December.

Since were about to enter March.....The Ides of Treason

Interesting if they're trying to get Javanka out of the WH. Is this Dump's choice or are they moving to isolate him. And how much more unhinged does Dumpy become when he is isolated?

Trump ranting again this morning:

Why is A.G. Jeff Sessions asking the Inspector General to investigate potentially massive FISA abuse. Will take forever, has no prosecutorial power and already late with reports on Comey etc. Isn’t the I.G. an Obama guy? Why not use Justice Department lawyers? DISGRACEFUL!

Twitter rumors are swirling that the real legal fireworks start in March.

Buckle up, kids.

Manafort trial set for September 17.

"The Season for Treason Part IX: Beware the Ides of March "

r550....should be ...part XV.......you used part 9 (IX)

Trial means a lot of stuff exposed that wouldn’t be otherwise. Instead of poiticians deciding to be discreet, the lawyers will drag it all out on the table.

[quote]Manafort trial set for September 17.

Just before midterm elections ... delicious.

It's a death match and only one will survive!

[quote]Trump's family is reportedly furious with John Kelly, and the sides may enter a 'death match'

[quote]It's a death match and only one will survive!

Multiple deaths would be totally fine with me!

Honestly, I take articles like the one I linked to in r554 with a large grain of salt. A lot of this is leaking to further a personal agenda and may or may not reflect the reality of what's going on behind the scenes. It is amusing to think about, though.

The Inspector General is a Civil Servant. My cousin was married to a guy who was a CPA, who rose through the Civil Service ranks, & was up for promotion and he was one of four candidates at the Department of Education. He didn't get it though he eventually did rise to the #2 spot as Deputy AG.

The way it works is the Office of the Inspector General conducts audits of various programs in various federal agencies and departments. These audits are financial but also partially program audits. They write a report and it's all public information if some enterprising reporter wants to wade through to find it.

I remember one time his group was auditing Operation Push , Jesse Jackson's organization, because it received federal funding. I asked him how it was going and he rolled his eyes and said, "Don't ask." When I suggested it was corruption and stealing he laughed, and said no, that would be easier than the mess they had to untangle. It was more like complete incompetency.

Every cabinet level department of government has a division of the Inspector General. Typically this division is understaffed and it can take weeks or months to complete audits and even years in some cases, though that is unusual, and then reports have to be written. Once a report is written they sit down with the appropriate department heads, and go over the report and tell you what you did wrong, and what has to change or get fixed.

It's all very clinical. Nothing subjective. These are linear thinkers. Numbers don't lie for them. (So are the people in the Congressional Budget Office which the GOP keeps attacking when they analyze legislation and tell the GOP it's bad.) So when you get an AG report it is thorough and straightforward. If you dispute the findings you can write a response to include with the report. In a way it was forensic accounting. My cousin's husband was very good at it.....and then he died.

r557, did you mean "IG report" in your last paragraph? Sorry, slightly confusing w/ "AG" Sessions blowing more hot air from his Keebler Elvish mouth for his Orange Asshole boss this week.

I had a very clear vision of the "No Puppet! You're The Puppet!" coming back to haunt him at the time. I now hope I had a moment of clairvoyance, and that's a clip we will see played again and again in the (not so distant) future.

r559, that was such a mortifyingly cringeworthy moment. His default to projection is alarming. He's like a 5th grader in so many ways. I still can't believe this country actually elected him.

R560 No real politician can get away with this childish shit except some banana republics. But his stupid base coddle him like he's orange Jesus.

r561....Thats why I call them Banana Republicans.

I need Pence to be next.

R559 I wish. Is it just me or has the media done a good job of making all things Russia not seem that big of a deal?

Good one r562. We should find a way to use it in a future thread title.

"What a terrible era in which idiots govern the blind." - Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

r564, if by media you mean Fox then yes. Does Fox even cover the Russian invasion? They seem to want to counter this by creating distrust in the intelligence agencies and pointing to a "deep state".

[quote]ven more than the president’s ability to fire Justice Department employees at will, the pardon power is regarded as a blank check for presidential power, and so Trump’s lawyers may be advising him that this is an ace up his sleeve. But any such legal advice to the president would be seriously mistaken. The fact that the pardon power is not subject to congressional or judicial review does not immunize the president from the risk of criminal penalties or impeachment for misusing that power.

[quote]In this instance, issuing pardons for the purpose of interfering with the investigation could significantly increase Trump’s exposure to obstruction of justice charges. Worse, it could potentially expose him to charges of treason.

R568 Dumbass is cornered, but none of his minions dares to tell him.

Not guilty!!!!

[quote]Paul Manafort pleads not guilty to charges filed after Gates plea deal

R570 Trump got to him, and so it escalates.

From Rachel Maddow tweet

From Manafort arraignment today -- Manafort defense counsel requests mid-September trial date (and court grants it), but Mueller's team says they're ready to go right now:

So - does he think he will get a pardon? What the hell?

I read Claude Taylor’s twitter account yesterday. He said he called a source he had had a quarrel with. The source said he would answer one question. Taylor asked, did Gates deliver Trump? The source said “yes” and hung up.

Interesting if true. So what would that mean for Manafort, if he won’t talk, but Mueller doesn’t need him any more? In theory Gates would have access to most of Manafort’s records as his partner. Especially financial records. And Gates’ tax records probably mirror Manafort’s as well, even if it’s just just Gates getting a 50% payment for deals he did, with Manafort presumably getting the other 50%. Gates made a deal and will skate, Manafort will not. He’ll do hard time.

Manafort must be afraid the Russians will kill him.

Yeah, why does Manafort wanta mid-September date? And why does he get a choice?

I don't follow Claude. How reliable is he?

Well, the Mid Setember date will put him smack in the middle of campaign season for the midterms. As for Mueller, any good Prosecutor will always say "We're ready right now." Although in this case I believe he is. And any good defense lawyer will usually stall for more time. Manafort's lawyers must be getting tired of him. I would also think that Manafort is definitely in danger from the Russian mob. He knows a lot of secrets. Washington secrets too.I think if he should accidentally choke on a chicken bone, the world will breathe a sigh of relief.

[quote]Well, the Mid Setember date will put him smack in the middle of campaign season for the midterms.

What does this matter to him though?

r577....It will matter to Trump and the GOP.

Yeah, R578 but why would Manafort then request it?

Potentially to put pressure on Trump to pardon him, R579? We don't know.

6 months (plus) is likely the maximum prep period most judges would grant the defense. Manafort's legal team is simply delaying as much as possible.

....and the court might not have immediate space on its docket. September is not that far off, likely they will ask for ...and get...at least one continuance. Its the way our court system works....especially in a document heavy case.

Ah, that makes sense R581.

I wonder which way it will go. Dump might offer a Pardon afraid of how much Manafort knows and can spill but will he be more concerned about the optics and if the pardon will end up getting him in even more trouble.

Walls are closing in. I wonder how much of that talk was true about Dump being paranoid and believing he was being haunted.

He may also be thinking that longer he delays, the longer before anyone’s guts spill.

What does Manafort get by not spilling? If he made a deal certainly he'd get protection... I mean, I guess the obvious is that he's more afraid of what he'd need protection from.

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

Mueller's team is asking witnesses pointed questions about whether Trump was aware that Democratic emails had been stolen before that was publicly known, and whether he was involved in their strategic release, people familiar with the probe tell NBC News.

Interesting, R588. How could he NOT know. Didn't that come up in Jr's meeting with the Russians?

Manafort's a scumbucket; just ask his daughters.

They hate him.

Link to new thread for when this one fills up.

r588......this was within days of Trump asking Putin for the emails at one of his rallies.

Coincidence ?

Hope Hicks is said to have made the decision to resign a few months ago and not because of her House interview yesterday......Hicks met with Mueller in December.......Did Mueller make her an offer she couldnt refuse ?.....Did he tell her to go back, get her affairs in order and resign and he would not charge her as long as she testifies ? Things are starting to happen quickly....maybe he told her to get out before the shit hits the fan.

R593 Then why all the panic cancellation of meetings and briefings today? If this were all long ago decided...

Because the annoouncement was today and she didnt want to deal with the media.

EVERY THREAD NEEDS A HAPPY CLOSURE.

MY PUSSY SMILES!

r595 Then something must have happened today to trigger her decision to announce her leaving to cause such panic.

Give Me One Treason.

The statement that she has been planning to leave months ago is most likely a lie. She probably wanted to leave after all that shit with her boyfriend came out but she didn't. She left today because they most likely kicked her ass out.

Give Me One Treason to Impeach...

"Manafort must be afraid the Russians will kill him." OF COURSE, he is, r573!

More importantly, Trump is afraid the Russians will kill HIM, Trump.

Link to new thread.