American Crime Story: Versace OFFICIAL THREAD

I'm looking forward to this, but can I just say that while I adore Penelope Cruz, I was not impressed with them casting her as Donatella. She is far too beautiful. If Donatella ever was a beauty, it had fled by the time Gianni was murdered. She looked ravaged and emaciated and the leather skin and the over the top plastic surgeries made her grotesque. With out prosthetic help there is simply no way Penelope can do that. And I think Penelope is a wonderful actor. I am very much looking forward to Edgar Ramirez's Gianni and Darren Criss and Ricky Martin.

I'm glad they cast Darren for eye candy, but the real Andrew Cuanan looked more like LInda Hunt in THE YEAR OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY.

I think that the audience will be big but nowhere near “OJ.” I also don’t see too many future acting awards when I look at this cast though I’d love to be surprised come Emmy and GG time next year.

I’m most curious about Ricky. I’m not a fan so I hope that his performance doesn’t bug me.

Edgar Ramirez is brilliant so if anyone gets recognized it should be him. Maybe casting Penelope was designed to generate more interest. They get the Glee crowd with Darren Criss, they get the Ricky MArtin fans, and with Penelope they get the legitimacy of genuine star power from films. So from a casting point of view they're appealing to a large swath. But I do agree the O.J. story will be hard to beat.

Penelope sounds exactly like Donatella, it's uncanny. And 20 years ago Donatella looked quite pretty compared to now.

Lots of buzz

Donatella looked better back then, but I don't think "quite pretty" was ever on the tip of anyone's tongue.

Here we go

It's not on for another 3 hours where I live. Wtf.

No cable? It's on right now, West Coast.

Did anyone hate the music in the beginning of the episode?

R11 no I loved the opening. Beautifully staged and filmed.

Murphy has a good eye, you have to give him that

Who is that blonde actress? I've seen her in stuff before.

ultra disappointed he cast Criss

ugh

At least they didn’t cast Gwen Stefani as Donatella

R15 or Lady Gaga as Donatella

gaga would been uber fab

Wow...Cathy Moriarty looks terrible. Who is the guy by Donatellas side....bf, husband, brother ?....in his close up he looks like Javier Bardem.

That was as slow as molasses. Too bad, this story has such potential

I cannot abide Penelope's Castilian accent - it sounds nothing like Italian.

Jay R. Ferguson! I was trying to figure out who he was!!!

R13 The blonde actress from earlier in the show is Annaleigh Ashford.

[quote] Wow...Cathy Moriarty looks terrible.

She was in last night's episode of This Is Us and didn't look that bad. But, she looked really terrible on this show.

r1 Donatella did not support the making of this show so casting her well,read attractive, was important.

Darren Criss is great as Cunanan

Too slow and too many commercials but I’m liking it.

Ryan Murphy sure knows his audience, having Darren Criss stroke himself wearing tiny briefs.

Well people on twitter seem to like it.

Darren and Ricky surprised me. They are a lot better than I thought they would be.

Ryan Murphy knows himself, R27

Darren Kiss showing off that ass all through this thing. They are being VERY generous casting Cruz as Donatella. I don't like the made up stuff. How did they know cunanan was like that in the car and stuff? Ricky Martin got OLD!!!

The show is full of details that seem too ridiculous to be true — but actually they mostly really are true

Thank you for the reminder, OP. I've just cleared space in my DVR to accommodate this series.

Donatella wasnt the plastic surgery horror show she is today at the time of the murder......

another.....

She's quite striking in these photos. I always thought Vera Farmiga would be physically perfect casting .

Didn't read like most to me R31, more like 50-50 with anecdotal accounts.

That episode stunk like a shart.

When Cunanan was in the empty opera theater with Versace was that just a fantasy?

diffrent casting woulda been fun....

Has anyone here read the Maureen Orth book?

[quote]Jay R. Ferguson! I was trying to figure out who he was!!!

He moves onto from one gay themed project to another one.

I read the Dominick Dunne book about it

Niemver thought P Cruz was beautiful, she looks like Ringo Starr.

sharon stone shoulda played donatella!

hee hee

R44 I would have loved that.

Daya's fat ass from Orange Is The New Black is in this

I liked how the straight guy cops are shown as homophobic morons when talking to Antonio.

Many of us have read it r40.

Annaleigh Ashford is probably best known from "Masters of Sex." She is a superb musical comedy star, and probably was (to my mind) the most moving Galinda in "Wicked."

[quote]. I don't like the made up stuff.

You recognize there will be a lot of that? A lot of details no one knows and will never know, this show is their take.

Analeigh Ashford is playing Cunanan's fag hag.

R47 Well they probably would be in real life.

The cops who found one of Dahmer's (underage) victims running away joked about queers and then handed the kid right back over to Dahmer. Wasn't that much progress from then to the 90s.

I do think the episode moved slow. I watched it with friends and felt they got restless.

[quote]When Cunanan was in the empty opera theater with Versace was that just a fantasy?

I was wondering that too, was that meant to be real?

If Cunanan ever met Versace it was a very brief hello in a public place years before. Versace was the epitome of everything the nutty Cunanan craved so he was obsessed with him. The opera house scene is fiction.

I loved the music in the beginning. But, I agree this episode was too slow.

Darren Criss is sexy. But he seems to be playing his part as if he were Titus Andromedon.

So shooting someone in the face tears up the skin like that? I always imagine a clean hole for the entrance wound. Grisly.

I don't know that I will watch more of this. I hate Cunanan so much right now. I don't want to see more of this vile person.

Penelope Cruz looks lovely as a blonde. Is she wearing veneers? She's having difficulty speaking through her teeth.

I actually like Penelope Cruz--she's much prettier than Donatella ever was, but she's capturd her essential freakshow quality very well. It 's like she wandered onto earth from another planet.

I was impressed with Ricky Martin. But am I supposed to feel outraged that the FBI did not understand what it meant that Antonio d'Amico procured other men for Versace? I neither disapprove nor approve that that was their arrangement (I would probably do the same thing if I were as rich and famous as Versace), but it did not seem particularly homophobic to me the FBI did not understand that arrangement.

[quote] I hate Cunanan so much right now. I don't want to see more of this vile person.

Mary!

He's been dead for twenty years.

In the series, Versace buys a magazine with Princes Diana on the cover. I thought she passed away earlier than he but I was mistaken. She would killed in the car accident one month later.

R61, We know. We remember her comforting Elton John at Gianni's funeral.

R59, The cop interrogating Antonio asked irrelevant prying and prurient questions. For kicks.

I think Darren Criss is terrific (so far).

How can they have been irrelevant questions? They had no idea at all at that time who had just shot Versace.

And how the hell can you fault a detective for asking "prying" questions after a murder? isn't that their job?

[quote] But am I supposed to feel outraged that the FBI did not understand what it meant that Antonio d'Amico procured other men for Versace?

I don't know much about Versace so I assume they were together and in an open relationship. There were other men in the villas, that's why the agent may have been asking those questions.

Regarding d-Amico procuring other men, is this why Donatella dismissed him like that?

Donatella was jealous of d'Amico, and thought he didn't bring much to the relationship with her brother.

R65, "And did you watch, when they had sex?"

I'm sure that helped the investigation.

The announcer kept pronouncing Gianni "jee ah nee." Drove me crazy.

I never thought Penelope Cruz is talented, her husband got all the acting skills.

If this is inaccurate like Feud don’t think I will bother.

R70, I never thought you is very smart.

R71, it’s a fucking tv show. Jesus Christ.

Hey, I saw the SF Opera production of "Capriccio" shown in the episode!!!

One of the extras must have been playing ME!

All discussion about the show, nothing about the story. My real question is: will they talk about Gamma Gu.

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R17, gaga would have unhinged her jaw and swallowed chunks of scenery whole. She wouldn't have even stopped to chew. She's an awful actress. Penelope Cruz was great.

It's a weird role to play, since Donatella is such a weird person.

Meh. It wasn’t very interesting.

This will not be a mainstream success. And it will not help Trump America like the gays any more. It's a depiction of one overly indulged gay man and another psychopathic one.

[quote]This will not be a mainstream success. And it will not help Trump America like the gays any more.

So what? Who cares? It's not going to hurt Ryan Murphy's career.

FX will practically let him do whatever he wants. Not everything has to be for everyone. This is for us.

I never had much positive to say about Donatella, but, wow...r76's photo is genuinely heartbreaking.

very well done, and well cast.

except for darren criss, as in glee, he emotes zero for me.

odd tha murphy continues to use him...

I'm figuring, the man who accompanied Donatella to Gianni's Miami mansion was not her husband. Her husband at the time, Paul Beck, was a blond.

Here's Donatella, her ex-husband, Paul Beck and their daughter Allegra.

Donatella wasn't a bad looking woman, I'd say she was actually attractive. The only thing I could think of which initially changed her looks, pre facial surgeries, her years of doing coke wrecked her nose, that's why she ended up looking like a boxer. She likely tried to have plastic surgeons try to fix the damage from the coke use.

Donatella's nose now looks very much like that of the Brit actress from Eastenders, Daniella Westbrook, her nose literally collapsed from years of coke use. Daniella is unrecognizable today.

Donatella looks like Mickey Rourke now.

I cringe when Criss comes on the screen, dont know why....

Donatella in Dynasty.

Penelope looks amazing.

How much must you loath yourself to look like that. Scary!

[quote] Her husband at the time, Paul Beck, was a blond.

Then you attach a pic showing him with dark hair.

And her ears!

Darren is portraying a psychopathic liar, grifter, and murderer, a real-life Talented Mr. Ripley. IMO, he so far has hit the right tones, whether being a calm fabulist or a manic post-murder suspect in his vehicle.

Appearances, acquisitions, and acceptance were EVERYTHING to AC, as evidenced in the movie by Darren's up-scale outfits, beginning with borrowed clothes.

The episode about Lee Miglin should be shocking. If we thought Donatella ("Do Not Tell-a") didn't want Gianni's secret life known, we haven't seen anything yet....

And WTH cares about currying favor with"Trump's America"? Bigots and morons, all.

This production is awful. Cheap, cliche plot devices and bad dialogue full of editorializing. And it's boring as hell.

Criss is puffy looking. He should've worked out a bit before going before the cameras.

I was expecting a musical number at some point

[quote]he emotes zero for me

Perhaps if you were hotter or smarter, he might be inspired to emote a bit more for you.

WEHT the niece who inherited most of his estate?

Who is the actor that played the guy that was in the bed when Criss jumped in saying that he had met Versace ?

Nico Evers-Swindell

[quote]If Cunanan ever met Versace it was a very brief hello in a public place years before.

Many witnesses have confirmed they talked at that club in San Francisco.

Their interaction outside of that is unknown, their is one person who says they save them driving in a limo together in San Francisco, so it is whether you believe that source.

there*

r92....and Judith Light plays Marilyn Miglin

I wish this was like The Crown and you could binge watch. Or at least they started with 2 episodes.

Cathy Moriarity has been reduced to under five?

Dammit. I missed it last night and I was trying to watch it On Demand today and they won't let me in to fucking FX channel unless I subscribe for an extra $5.99 on my fucking cable bill. For fucking FX. Can you believe that? I thought once a program airs you can watch it on demand. I already pay enough. I hope people don't subscribe! Fuck them. Where does it end. This is such bullshit. FX fucking "Plus."

Darren's body looked perfect, since Cunanan wasn't a muscle god.

Opening music: fake Albinoni's "Adagio." Actual composer: Remo Giazotto. It was pefect for the opening 9 minutes, and the images and cuts seemed to have been choreographed to the music.

The Diana cover GV buys at his local news stand was shot by Gay Sex Pest of This Month, Mario Testino.

You are justified in illegally streaming it I say r109. Screw that.

Those old photos of Donetella are airbrushed as Hell. She was not nearly that attractive at the time of Gianni murder. She always tried very hard, but never really got there.

r108....thats irrelevant. The point is that 20 years ago she wasnt the disfigured mess she is today due to bad plastic surgery.

So I missed it but may follow it. What's the verdict?

[quote]For fucking FX. Can you believe that? I thought once a program airs you can watch it on demand

FX shows are often delayed on demand. It'll show up in a few days.

I haven’t read the book and I don’t know much about Versace the man or the business so I’m curious to see where the series goes.

I can't really tell if I like the use of Penelope's accent or not.

r113....I think that is because of the mouth prosthetic she is wearing....I think she did well. Have you ever heard Donatella speak ?....you can barely understand her, and its not just her accent.

After watching Versace's morning ritual, I wanted to shoot him.

The series is mostly about Cunanan, not Versace r112.

I found Penelope's accent distracting.

I have both books, and though I haven't dug them out to reread them, I remember the anecdote about Cunanan meeting Versace. Can't remember the setting, but evidently Cunanan wormed his way into a crowd surrounding Versace and made eye contact. It was Versace who then said, "Lago di Como, no?" and Cunanan said, "yes, yes" implying that they had met there even though they had not. At that point Cunanan was shuffled off by Versace's bodyguards. I can understand why that sequence in the opera house would upset the family. I doubt very much that Cunanan ever drank champagne alone in the opera house with Versace.

The sequence with the wealthy married couple was also confusing. I remember Andrew's fag hag very well from interviews she did on TV, and she was not some beautiful slim Dorit lookalike; she was a chubby enabling sad fag hag. She gave a lot of interviews after the murders and got her two seconds of fame.

Andrew lived in San Diego as the kept boy of rich older man Norman Blachford. By the time Blachford kicked him out, evidently with nothing but a car, Andrew was dealing drugs on the side and getting high from his own supply. I wonder how THAT relationship will be portrayed. In his salad days, Andrew considered himself the king of gay Hillcrest society, which was getting sick of him. He threw himself a big going away party at some restaurant after Blachford cut him loose. Then he headed to Minneapolis. He was also losing his looks and getting FAT, which just increased during his "spree" - far from the perfect body displayed by Criss.

They evidently filmed in the real Casa Casuarina, which is now a boutique hotel. All I can say is that if I had to spend five minutes in that place my head would explode. It it SO over the top it's almost claustrophobic. The winning stroke in this series by far is Edgar Ramirez, who looks so much like Versace it is jarring every time he appears onscreen.

So was Lee Miglin gay and using a hustler orb in a relationship with C.? His house is in an obscure area and hard to find. Isn't his son also gay? Chicago magazine ran a well written piece on this and it said everything was shut down 're Moulin. Nobody was allowed to say a word. Was he of is draggy Marilyn that powerful? She used to hawk crap on a shopping channel?

Cunanan ended his killing spree with Versace because he knew it would make him famous. Notice the happy look on his face when he buys the newspapers and finds the story on the front page everywhere.

A hustler claims Lee Miglin and Cunanan once picked him up for a threesome r118..

Edgar Ramirez is genius and will win every award.

Cunanan had to know Miglin. He drove all the way to Chicago, parked a block from Miglins house, had lunch at a diner a block away then walked down the alley where he supposedly discovered Miglin working in his garage. Sounds more like a prearranged hookup gone bad. Maybe when Miglin refused to give him any money. Marilyn was conveniently out of town. They were prominent in the city, which cane together in a massive coverup.

Andrew bathed and slept in Lee Miglin's house. He very much felt comfortable making himself at home.

The official line of being "random" was just done to appease his wife.

Donetalla is too rich to care that her face is busted. Allegra had a very severe eating disorder and nearly died. I think she is better now but was really fucked up in the head after the murder. She was Gianni's favorite and heir presumtive, ecxpected to take over after Gianni retired.

They are playing with the time frame from Gianni's murder and back and forth. Perhaps that will turn out to be just in Cunanan's mind. We'll see.

Lee Miglin was a long-term member of Gamma Gu. This was a long-term nationwide professional fraternity of closeted gay men. They would hold destination events and fly in young men as boy toys under the guise of a professional event. It went back to at least the 70s, if not the 60s.

Cunanan was brought to this group by a San Diego member. This got him access to more of his victims, namely Miglin. Most references to Gamma Gu appear to have been scrubbed from the web. Miglin’s death, and a newer more out generation of members, led to the organizations demise.

I know all of this because in the 90’s I ran a business for a couple who were per of the organization. They hosted an event in Seattle which Cunanan attended. This led to the FBI showing up to investigate the lead during the manhunt that accompanied his killing spree.

Darren Criss was amazing

Criss has a great ass. Ricky Martin shows his soon.

You can stream FX shows the day after airings on FX Now apps on tablets or Fire TV, Roku, etc. You have link your cable provider to the app or device.

R126 thank you. I always felt there was more than met the eye there. Marilyn seems nice but very neurotic and a touch see you next Tuesday. Wonder if Lee always was gay or decided to dabble? What about their son? Is Marilyn still hawking crap or are her children doing it? She must be 80ish.

[quote]The sequence with the wealthy married couple was also confusing. I remember Andrew's fag hag very well from interviews she did on TV, and she was not some beautiful slim Dorit lookalike; she was a chubby enabling sad fag hag. She gave a lot of interviews after the murders and got her two seconds of fame.

I also remember the fag hag's video plea to Cunanan. She was chubby and not attractive. I know the video is somewhere online, but I can't find it.

Poor Cathy Moriarty. Is this what she actually looks like now? The eyebrows...

[quote] Donetalla is too rich to care that her face is busted.

Yes, honey. That must be why she keeps getting so much plastic surgery.

Gamma Mu was a group of pretentious queens who wanted everyone to think they were rich. Most weren’t. My dentist was a member. Lol

So what was the story of Conanan and the wealthy couple? Was he living with them, did he con them too?

Sorry, I don't know every detail of the sage, but I'm sure someone here does!

Which wealthy couple? the two gay men in Minneapolis he murdered, or the Miglins in Chicago? you'll need to be more specific.

The wealthy couple shown in the first episode, with the "fag hag" who encouraged Cunanan to borrow her husband's expensive suit and watch for the big "date" with Versace.

Who were they, where did they live, did they have this weasel move in, and what part did they play in the story? Thanks!

I think what we are all wondering is who were those young straight people he was living with at the beginning? Obviously rich since the husband had dozens of suits and gold watches.

The story is going to be told backwards, from what I understand, from the assassination through the penultimate episode; and then the final episode will show the aftermath of the day of the assassination and Cunanan's suicide. So I think we'll find out as the story goes who the couple are.

Their names are Phil and Elizabeth Cote.

According to this, Elizabeth Cote was a wealthy woman in fashionable San Diego whom Cunanan became very good friends during his long time there mostly being a kept man. he was godfather to her daughter.

The Cote couple was mentioned in Maureen Orth's VF article and later book.

Norman Blachford (who was Andrew Cunanan's sugar daddy for a while) was a member of Gamma Mu and sponsored Andrew to become a part of it. That is a matter of record.

Lee Miglin being part of Gamma Mu was never proven, but it is possible he was.

[quote]According to this, Elizabeth Cote was a wealthy woman in fashionable San Diego whom Cunanan became very good friends during his long time there mostly being a kept man.

They go further back than that. Andrew Cunanan became friends with Elizabeth Cote from when they were adolescents. Cunanan went to The Bishop's School which is the elite private school in the San Diego area.

Cunanan relied on Eliazeth's generosity to be able to move to San Francisco in the first place. She wanted a friend and was willing to float Andrew.

I'm surprised Ryan Murphy would based this on Vulgar Favors which was pretty anti-gay and bordered on homophobic.

You don't really have a choice, Vulgar Favors is the best authority on Andrew Cunanan. No one did more research about it than Maureen Orth.

The suit he wore to the opera, his hag's bf's, was so big.

R146 she may have done research but she also got a lot of things wrong, like claiming Cunanan became HIV+ because of Versace and that's why he killed him.

No offense but you definitely did not read the book r148, Maureen does not state that. Her book states that Cunanan was HIV negative (while outing Versace for being HIV+)

So she is a cunt then?

Well according to the Versace family she is, they immediately badmouthed her book (and and now this TV series), because of her outing Versace's HIV status.

She's a whore of a slut and I'm glad her husband died because she was a shit too.

How on earth can you hate her so much...?

As I've said before on this board, I agree she sounds as clueless as Barbara Bush talking about gay culture, but I can't hate for clearly being sheltered.

Orth used Versace's death as a springboard to her own fame, presenting herself as an expert on Versace and the murder.

Maureen Orth spent two months focused on learning about Andrew Cunanan prior to him killing Versace so she could write an investigative piece about him for Vanity Fair. Yes, after he killed Versace her article became a book because suddenly there was a ton more interest. But she was the expert on Cunanan. No law enforcement at the time of the Versace murder knew any connection between them, while she had already knew they had met before.

I don't think she has ever presented herself as some expert on Versace, the book is about Cunanan, Versace is just his most famous victim.

Versace had aids virus secret kept to protect stock plan, book says

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Why would it matter what his HIV status was?

I think Cunanan is rather fascinating. The all consuming desire to be fabulous and wealthy can drive someone to insane behavior. Especially if you've got some personality disorder, like AC apparently had. The gay aspect just magnified everything. And Cunanan's sell-by date was fast approaching at the ripe old age of 27. There are lessons to be learned, children.

The first ep was rather slow but there are eight more to come and, honestly, is there really much of a story to cover in 9 1 hr plus segments? I'm not a Cruz fan but I thought she was the highlight last night. Certainly not the campfest Gina Gershon had in that Donatella Lifetime Biopic. Edgar Ramirez does a remarkable job as Versace and I can't wait to see more of him. Ricky Martin still looks hot. I'll stick with it.

So did DL like the first ep or not?

I can't believe all of this happened over 20 years ago! I feel so old!

Consider yourself lucky R162.

They needed Kristen Wiig to play Donatella (channeling her character from Zoolander 2.)

R158 twenty years ago, it was a big deal. Especially for the name and face of a firm about to be taken public

I want to watch this but I hate Penelope Cruz 😭

R165 Why it was a big deal?

r166......Shes quite good in this and makes a convincing Donatella

R167 there wasn't the advanced medical solutions and the accepted conclusion that it isn't a death sentence, like it is understood now

r167.....because the one pill a day regime hadnt yet been developed......with a cocktail of drugs, you could survive, but people would suffer serious side effects from them....and a lot still died. The face of a major company being exposed right before the public offering would have sunk the stock and probably destroyed the company for fear that the genius behind the label could die at any time.

Do you not really comprehend the stigma that comes with being HIV-positive r167?! Even today it is something most are scared to tell people, and we are talking decades ago. Some guys would literally commit suicide once they got diagnosed.

They were convinced it was going to derail the company. Hell Donatella advised against Gianni even coming out because they were worried it would harm the company.

[quote]I think Cunanan is rather fascinating. The all consuming desire to be fabulous and wealthy can drive someone to insane behavior. Especially if you've got some personality disorder, like AC apparently had. The gay aspect just magnified everything. And Cunanan's sell-by date was fast approaching at the ripe old age of 27. There are lessons to be learned, children.

For sure, he was utterly obsessed with being this fabulous A-gay. Once that mirage started falling apart he felt he had nothing else to live for. The guys he wanted rejected him. And he went on this murderous rampage.

Penelope is too good looking and much too Spanish to play Donatella. Very bad casting. In addition, all these Italians are being played by Spanish or Hispanic people(save for the actor playing Santo). It was bad enough when Pacino played Hispanic gangsters we have one actor of Italian descent playing an Italian. Oh and the killer was half Italian to boot!

That scene in SF took me back to the early nineties. The club reminded me of "Colossus", and it turns out that's where people said they met.

[quote]honestly, is there really much of a story to cover in 9 1 hr plus segments

Well there are still four other murders to go through. Most critics seem to call the episode focused around David Madson the highlight.

R131 You’re welcome. The older set were all deeply closeted gay men who had wives and kids. The younger generation wanted to be more out but it was forbidden to appear as anything other than a professional fraternity.

R134 Gamma Mu! Thank you. After twenty minutes years, I was misremembering the name. But you’re right, most were pretentious queens with some money. Not Miglin levels. He was an example of one of the older and more-monied members

[quote]Most references to Gamma Gu appear to have been scrubbed from the web.

Maybe you were thinking of Gabba Gul, the "fraternity" that hangs out at Satriale's.

Have any stories of Miglin's secret gay life ever become known? The media desperately tried to maintain his straight facade at the time.

r178....Of course stories have come out....thats how we know about it. The Miglins were a very well respected, moneyed, and well connected family in Chicago.

[quote]Miglin's family also steadfastly denied that there had been any previous relationship between the men. The FBI file obtained by the I-Team disputes that. According to several reports, the men were friends who on previous documented occasions paid a male prostitute for sexual services. The federal investigative file quotes an interview with a "rent boy" who had advertised his services in a local magazine. The man described how Miglin and Cunanan, driving in one car, had picked him up at arranged locations in Chicago and had sexual relations with Lee Miglin and Andrew.

No r178. Miglin remains an enigma. So does his son Duke, a wannabe film actor. Some speculate Cunanan learned about Lee from his son but there’s no proof that Duke is gay or ever met the kailler.

wow......heres an article about Miglins murder when it happened......what a gruesome way to die. There are a lot of dog whistles in the article alluding to his possibly being gay.

For the poster upthread who was annoyed that I posted a photo of Donatella's ex-husabnd Paul Beck with darker hair, here's a more current photo of Paul, with Drake, with his actual dark blonde hair. In the other photo it seems he had some product in his hair which made it appear darker.

I'd say Allegra appears to have an eating disorder, wouldn't you? Sad.

This being a gossip board, let's not forget that Paul Beck was a model before he married into the Versace family and was rumored to have been one of Gianni's lovers.

i found this first ep quite boring too... and i'm not sure the theme for this season (homophobia) holds water. It was well shot, the acting was solid... but i was not hooked like with OJ. Penelope Cruz is extraordinaire... i'm from Italy and Donatella sounds exactly like that! Hope this improves, tho.

Anyone from Chicago know if Marilyn Miglin sold the Scott Avenue house or still lives in it? I can't imagine that she does.

Allegra looks wonderful!

It seems the Miglin family still owns it r187, though now her daughter lives there.

Penelope seems to being wearing fake teeth over her own, I guess to give her the look of Donatella's odd looking mouth.

Donatella has morphed into that Muppet Janet and apparently not only DL-ers think so.

Ooops,I meant Janice.

did Cunan really have that "date" with Versace? Or was that a fantasy sequence? I wasn't sure.

I saw it as him having met Versace in the club then going to the opera after being invited. However, the conversation they had at the opera seemed like a story from Cunanans imagination. It all went so perfectly for him from Versace complimenting him so much to Versace kind of flirting with him.

Did Donatella spend so much money to look so bad?

The article which R182 posted basically says that Miglin's house wasn't broken into and that, conspicuously, Miglin's wife was on a business trip at the time. Translation: the "straight" daddy wanted to hook up again with a familiar piece, timed it so that the wife would be away, not realizing he'd get much more than he had bargained for...

It sure looks like a crime of passion. Miglin cut off the money and the broke Cunanan sought revenge.

At first, I was distracted by Penelope Cruz's Castilian lisp, but I just watched an interview with real Donatella and she spoke with a lisp. She also was harder to understand than Penelope.

Anyone see the Donatella TV movie with Gina Gershon as Donatella?

I don't think the Versace family liked that bio either.

[quote]Heres an article about Miglins murder when it happened......what a gruesome way to die

Out of the 5 victims, Cunanan put the most effort into how he killed Lee Miglin. He carefully tied him up, carefully wrapped masking tape all over his head but left him enough room to breath. Clearly torturing him first before he cut loose and stabbed him over and over. Then staged the crime scene by adorning it with gay porn mags.

None of the other 4 people he killed got that kind of treatment.

Where to begin?

1. The fantasy of the date at the opera was absurd. They had Versace waiting backstage like a dresser (and as if he had just finished fitting the singer, with a ridiculous pin cushion on his wrist!) the costumes would have been completed way in advance and if Versace was in attendance for the premiere, he would have been an honored guest in the audience.

2. The Versace/Cunanan limo story has been debunked by the other man who was supposed to have been with them. If they met it was definitely in passing.

[quote] The Versace/Cunanan limo story has been debunked by the other man who was supposed to have been with them.

Link? I haven't seen this and would love to read it.

When did it say “All of the events depicted in this series actually happened and are totally true and real and absolutely no artistic license was taken by producers”?

I missed that.

R200 Pretty sure those are meant to be Cunanan's imagination.

It's the "Cruising" of 2018. Perfect for the Trump era, to fan the flames of homophobia.

3. The scene where the cop is interrogating the lover. This is not some hick cop in Iowa but in South Beach, a gay Mecca in the late ‘90s. It was just an excuse to show how “depraved” the gay life seems to the outsider. Maureen Orth’s book had that same leering tone, which colored the achievement of her research for me. She must be the only New York woman who never had a gay pal.

Shhhhh! I'm at the part where Penelope, as Donatella, is making her tearful speech.

R207 What is she saying though?

R208 - Don't know. I'm too focused on Penelope's 'Man Hands' in the scene right now.

I LOVE it! Really had me glued to the TV

R202

4. Versace was much more of a fatherly personality and was 50 when he was killed. Edgar Ramirez, 40, swanning around in a pink silk robe strains credulity. Gianni was a very conservative dresser.

[quote]Has anyone here read the Maureen Orth book?

I actually lived it, unfortunately. I was drugged and raped by Cunanan and his mentor, who's mentioned in the book. I lated found out that they filmed me and took photos and sold them to rich perverts. This happened to several of us. There was a ring of wealthy gay men in Southern California that did horrible, horrible things to young naive men like me.

I have more disturbing stories of these evil men, but I just watched the first episode and it triggered a lot of emotions.

[quote]3. The scene where the cop is interrogating the lover. This is not some hick cop in Iowa but in South Beach, a gay Mecca in the late ‘90s. It was just an excuse to show how “depraved” the gay life seems to the outsider. Maureen Orth’s book had that same leering tone, which colored the achievement of her research for me. She must be the only New York woman who never had a gay pal.

Edgar Ramirez was on Jimmy Fallon's show the other night, he made a very good point that not many famous people were out during the '90s. He said the series will focus on that aspect of Versace, that he was closeted to some extent.

Don't you remember the scene when Donatella is asking Ricky Martin exactly what he told the detective? She made it sound as if Gianni wasn't out to the world, just to his family and close friends. Donatella was upset that he told the detective he was Gianni's longtime partner.

Don't hold back, R213...

JFC r213. That's horrible.

Sorry to hear this, R213.

The scene where the FBI agent opened his trunk to reveal the Undstributed Cunanan wanted posters hints that at least some in law enforcement really didn’t give a dsmn. Homophobia?

r213, so sorry to hear this. Is the mentor still alive? This is so much more than all these women yelling "me too".

They should have gotten lady gaga to play donatella. She actually is Italian and facially could have pulled it off perfectly.

I tend to get tired of Ryan Murphy shows after a few episodes, and it's very well possible it will happen here as well, but I truly enjoyed the premiere. Cinematography was beautiful and actors did a great job. Darren Criss is scrumptious, he practically looks like a doll at times which is partly why his Cunanan seems so messed up.

R186 PC sounds like a Castilian tart not a Calabrian hussy! Isn't strange that Penelope has pretty much played whores in her Italian language roles.

R160, Well, there ARE more murders, a massive police hunt, and a suicide to depict. Lee Miglin's death scenes should be shocking.

Yes, Ricky is still fine. Handsome, and he has kept in great shape his entire life.

R213, Is it too late to go to the authorities?

[quote]Isn't strange that Penelope has pretty much played whores in her Italian language roles.

Strange? Not really. Her whole career was built around those roles. Whether in Spanish, Italian or English, she's always playing whores. I guess she really likes it. Didn't she become famous for being Tom Cruise's beard and destroying his (fake) marriage with Nicole?

ii've already posted this, but i can assure you that Penelope sounds EXACTLY like Donatella in this. I'm italian and i don't detect a spanish accent in her performance. She talks "funny" just like Donatella.

[quote] Whether in Spanish, Italian or English, she's always playing whores.

You've never seen any of the Almodóvar's movies with her, I assume?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Ricky’s hair color looked off to me. Did anyone else notice it looked fake?

Donatella looks quite anorexic too, these days.

Thanks r211. So the person denying it is Harry, that makes sense. He denies ever meeting Cunanan (not just this limo story), while there are many people who say they saw him together. It is clear that Orth thinks he is lying about his connection to Andrew. The book doesn't try to pretend the limo story is a fact, just that it is one account. Harry saying otherwise doesn't mean much to me either way.

What has happened to Versace's b/f, the Ricky Martin character?

R213 is speaking of Vance Coukoulis, who was arrested for sexual exploitation of minors.

Cunanan and him were friends for a while in San Diego.

Antonio D’Amico is still alive and doing fine r232. He lives in northern Italy with his new boyfriend, he released a line of golfwear last year.

Antonio and Donatella never got along well so he has had little to do with the Versace family since Gianni's death.

Gianni wanted to leave Antonio with a lifetime pension of around ~26k a month and the right to live in any of Gianni's properties.

But Donatella fought him on it and he did not get any rights to the houses and had to take a lump sum payment that was a fraction of the money intended him.

I can confirm what R126 says. I have a friend who is a member of Gamma Gu. He is an older, rich guy in Ft. Lauderdale.

Gammu Mu people, it's Gamma Mu

I liked Cruz in this. The second she arrived the whole energy shifted. I can see why she wouldn't like this portrayal (in spite of the flattering casting) because it seems as if she cares so much more about protecting the business than is broken up by her brother's death.

I think Criss is the weak link. He looks the part, but his acting makes me think I'm watching community theater.

A great example of the problem with not having same-sex marriage r235, Antonio was left with few legal rights.

I can't believe people think the after opera meeting was meant to be real. It was clearly happening in Cunanan's head.

R240 I don't think it CLEARLY was depicted as fantasy. They played it as if it was real.

It just didn't ring true. So there were clues that it wasn't real.

First of all, because it made no sense that Versace would be left alone in the theater, like the help left to clean up, on his big premiere night.

Second, Criss acting is so twee, it didn't seem real.

But the scene was, otherwise, played as if it was really happening. The biggest clue to me is that Versace, a man of the world, showed no indication of knowing Cunanan was lying. That made me think it was all in Cunanan's head.

The whole thing did seem very dream-like, as if it was Andrew's fantasy of how a meeting with Versace could go for him.

Donatella only cared about Giannis mioney, she was nasty right form the time she got off the plane.

[quote]Gianni Versace had very understated taste in clothes.

I've seen the clothes he designed. Thanks for the laugh.

Are you kidding ? Why Donatella is thrilled, thrill I tell you to have Penelope Cruz portray her !! Said Ms. Versace, "I'm so glad Penelope got the job; she needs the work !"

You have to hand it to Donatella. She's an ugly women with no taste, not the first person that comes to mind in carrying on a fashion house with great success.

Versace's house is now a very tacky, expensive hotel that totally trades on his death (the restaurant is called "Gianni's" and probably has "Shot Bird" on the menu).

His style is what the Trumps would call "Fuckin' KLASSY!"

If it's too busy but has lots of gold, it's for me !!

Just watched it On Demand. Perfect casting, Penelope is brilliant.

What's with the dead dove?

The bird was killed by ricochet bullet after Cunanan shot Versace.

The FBI originally thought the dead bird was left as a sign, which made them think it was a mob hit.

I thought Ricky Martin was embarrassingly bad and Criss barely registered. Hoping it gets better but frankly I was bored.

Criss's scene in the car underscored what a bad actor he is. I had NO IDEA what the character was feeling. It just seemed like a community theater version of vague hysteria.

I did not like Martin either, a singer who can't act.

[quote]Criss's scene in the car underscored what a bad actor he is. I had NO IDEA what the character was feeling. It just seemed like a community theater version of vague hysteria.

I felt the same way in that scene! My roommate and I looked at each other and were both like "What is he going for here?"

A scene like the one in the car should have been a glimpse into the character. But I had no idea what it was all about -- other than A-C-T-I-N-G!

Was he remorseful? Scared? Angry? Worried?

[quote]Was he remorseful? Scared? Angry? Worried?

Yes.

Darren: "What I was going for was my good side."

I got the impression that he was laughing, and nervous, and scared in the car.

I was approached in a bar by a doctor who was a member of Gamma Mu. He started talking to me about the group, and I thought he wanted me to join, which was strange since I was a poor college student at the time, and then it got weird. He started saying stuff about how I would be very popular with group members because I had the model looks that they all wanted, and that it would be an incredible opportunity for me to meet the most successful members of the community. He said they would fly me into host cities and it would be a lot of fun. It scared me and I told him that I wasn't interested and left to find my friends. I remember being offended that he thought I was an escort or something.

R235 What a cunt

Or, r241, Versace simply chose to ignore Cunanan's fabrications as charming flaws, in order to invite Andrew to perhaps join him and Antonio.

That Cunanan hadn't known Versace might be on a veracity par with Cunanan's not knowing Miglin.

My boss works with Donatella and he came into the office yesterday (hating the show) but said Penelope's voice is EXACT, absolutely perfect

R252, In what way(s) was Ricky Martin "embarrassingly bad"? I thought his depictions of shock and grief, of indignation and confusion over the police interrogation, were fine.

If anything, I would have wanted more screaming and/or wailing cfrom him at finding Gianni and wanting an ambulance, but then that much emoting probably would have engendered even more criticism.

[quote]I got the impression that he was laughing, and nervous, and scared in the car.

He was happy/unhappy and calm/hysterical and excited/bored and paranoid/carefree and ashamed/proud and remorseful/jubilant.

[quote]If anything, I would have wanted more screaming and/or wailing cfrom him at finding Gianni and wanting an ambulance,

According to sources (including him), none of that happened. He walked out, saw Versace and was then carried back in. He did not cradle Versace and wait for the ambulance.

Yeah R264 I'm one of those people who probably would've criticized it. I was afraid they would've had Ricky do more of what you wanted, because even seasoned actors could be terrible and accidentally ham that up. And seasoned actor Ricky definitely is not. So I'm glad they did what they did since this was probably more doable for him.

It seemed from the set design and direction that they were implying that Versace did not get top quality care at the hospital.

It looked dirty, a light switch was askew on the wall, there as shit all over the floor, and they all just left him there after he died.

It was bugging me at first because I couldn't place the actress playing his fag hag.

But now I remember from Masters of Sex. She was the best part of that show. Love her.

Ricky has experience acting on General Hospital. He may not be fantastic, but he's not new to it

Andrew is telling the married couple he was in bed with how he met Versace and he was going to the opera. He probably met him n passing at the bar where he persisted in trying to start a conversation. But IMO the fantasy kicks in where in Andrew's telling he sits down next to Gianni and they start talking. The entire opera sequence was fantasy. Not the part with him sitting there watching the opera, but the part where he goes up on stage and Gianni comes out to him and they drink champagne? Uh, no. That was Andrew's imagination. I have to wonder if he saw Versace with the young men holding court in some club,and wanted to be part of that inner circle but of course he wasn't. Andrew was a psycho and these were all rage killings,Miglin, et al, and to get attention. Shooting Gianni in broad day light in the morning in front of his house? I'm surprised some paparazzi didn't get a picture of it. The scene of Darren Criss in the truck after he killed Gianni, IMO he was exhilarated, excited it was "Holy Shit I did it! WTF! OMG! What did I do!" I picked up no remorse, maye terror that he was capable of such horrors. I think he didn't have the remorse gene in his make up. Face it. Look what he did to Miglin. ugh.

R226 My family is part Italian and no one in Calabria sounds as Castillian like she does. She sounds very Spanish deary. Donatella sounds very southern Italian.

R263 The voice is not that spot on. Penelope tries but misses the mark in terms of the timbre of her voice and accent wise as well. There is still a lightness in Penelope's voice when she does Donatella. Donatella's deep voice with the Calabrese accent is very unique. I like Penelope as an actress yet it is a pale imitation of Donatella.

I am sure Donatella is pleased that someone much prettier is playing her!

In movies and TV, when a loved one collapses, he/she is ALWAYS cradled while the words “Why?” and “No!” are loudly wailed. Otherwise, it’d just be real life and who wants to watch that?

R272, I'm from Madrid and Penelope's accent in this show is not Castilian.

Penelope Cruz and Uncle Harvey

Trump is as “overly indulged” as Versace and as “psychopathic” as Cunanan - but that doesn’t hurt him with his base. So if the Trumpsters think gays are bad, based on this show, that is just their willful ignorance at work .

Are we now only allowed TV shows and films based off what the Deplorables like or what is at their level?

What does that leave us with?

Duck Dynasty? Bringing back Jerry Springer? Blue's Clues?

Who plays Naomi Campbell and Linda Evangelista?

R260 that was the precise MO for the organization. Procure younger for the older. You walked away and saved yourself from exactly what you assumed.

R241 judging from the thing they were saying to each other, and how they were acting towards each other, to me it was pretty clear. It didn't seem real within the framework that the show had already set forth.

I hope they portray Bill Reese (the cemetery caretaker) well. Everyone loved him. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I grew up about ten miles where Bill and his wife lived. Lovely couple. His wife died in 2005 and many people said it was from a broken heart.

From what the critics have said I don't think they focus on him much r282, which makes since as he had no connection to Cunan. As you said, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time so there isn't a lot of story there unlike the rest of the victims.

But yes, he really died for no reason, he was just unlucky.

[quote]It was bugging me at first because I couldn't place the actress playing his fag hag.

It was the same with me. In the breakfast scene, I reconginized her more by the nose. Later on, I remember about her being in Masters of Sex. I rewatched the episode this morning and I think she does well playing the fag hag who enabled Cunanan.

R272, your family might be part italian, but i'm 100% italian and living in Italy: Donatella does NOT have a calabrese accent. She speaks in her own unique way, sounding quite strange because of her plastic surgeries and god knows what else. You can't even tell IF she has an accent (when she speaks italian). When she speaks english she of course sounds italian, but there is not an iota of calabria in her voice.

[quote] i found this first ep quite boring too... and i'm not sure the theme for this season (homophobia) holds water. It was well shot, the acting was solid... but i was not hooked like with OJ

What it lacked for me was a character to hook me in, to make me care about what "happens" next week.

BTW, here in Italy there's a famous comedian who makes a funny donatella impression. Enjoy.

I don't give a fuck what Trump's base thinks. Or even if they do.

[quote]Who plays Naomi Campbell and Linda Evangelista?

I've told this story before, but I was flying out of Miami on a private plane. During flight, the pilot came back to ask if everything was going well. He then said, "I took this same route once, many years ago. I opened the cockpit door to check on the passengers, only to see Gianni Versace sticking carrot sticks up Naomi Campbells behind while everyone else laughed."

R289 - That's our Babe!

GTFOH, R289

Are we sure it was her ass? I get the feeling she has teeth in the other opening...

Or at the very least a couple of rabbits.

Heehee

How did Versace squeeze anything up that tight azz?

So who was the guy who went running after Cunanan and then stopped in the alleyway when Cunanan turned and faced him with the gun? I've never read anything about that really happening, and the show didn't even show his face, really. Seemed really strange that he was never mentioned or interviewed by the police.

I was half watching so maybe I missed something?

Anyone think Darren Criss will have some sort of sex scene in this show? Would they sexualize and sensationalize the killer?

Murphy has already sexualized the killer enough in the first episode so I think he won't stop there.

I mean he was a prostitute right? So I'd assume he'd have at least one.

Does Versace sort of rhyme with "erase"?

I agree with earlier posters who don't care for Ricky Martin's acting. In fact, I think he's the weak link among the main characters.

J'adore Ricky Martin.

Please, enough with the French ya queen.

Eat merde, bitch.

I really do, too, r302, but I just felt that his acting was poor in the first episode. Maybe it gets better in the subsequent episodes.

R305 - Fingers crossed.

What about the first victim, hot military guy Jeff Trail. What's his story?

He was a friend of Cunanans, was a closeted military guy and Andrew could introduce him to all the boys. He eventually moved to Minnesota after leaving the military and leaving the cops, neither one was friendly to gays.

Maybe a desperate Andrew wanted to make it more than friends and killed Jeff after he rejected him? To me it reads rejection was the reason he killed Jeff and David. David was an ex who refused to take him back.

I just want to see some hardcore all-male sex scenes with all the male leads. Is that too much to ask?

We know Ricky Martin has a sex scene per an interview he gave. We don't know about anyone else.

R40 As I said on another thread, Orth was just the wrong writer for this material. It was like a book on gay culture as written by your spinster aunt. For example, at one point it's clear she thinks top and bottom describe physical positions.

R105 Xfinity On Demand is offering a free trial of FX+ with all sorts of stuff commercial free - Versace, all of AHS, even Nip/Tuck.

R310 - He better show ass. And lots of it.

I think it's been confirmed that Ricky will show ass in this. Obviously, from the preview at the end of the episode, Criss will be naked a lot more.

I genuinely enjoyed it, which surprised me. I thought everyone was wonderful, even Criss who I expected would be the weak link. He's playing it really bizarre and I like it.

Honestly though, Criss' ass stole the show. That thing is beautiful.

[quote]Honestly though, Criss' ass stole the show. That thing is beautiful.

No argument there, he is definitely gifted with a nice ass.

[quote]I agree with earlier posters who don't care for Ricky Martin's acting. In fact, I think he's the weak link among the main characters.

I thought the same thing. I'm not a huge Darren Criss fan, but I found him to be entertaining the scenes with the fag hag and her husband.

R235 This is in part Gianni's fault and in part Antonio's. The will reminded me a bit of what Bloomingdale left Vicki Morgan, a mix of tangible assets (the monthly pension) and intangible ones (the right to live in Versace’s homes).

Gianni should have anticipated that the family wouldn't have respected his wishes and left Antonio some property outright.

Antonio should have fought Donatella harder about the money, though. If it was in the will, she couldn't have stopped him from getting it.

Donatella is a cunt! I kind of hate her now

Did Antonio get some kind of lump sum agreement?

[quote] If it was in the will, she couldn't have stopped him from getting it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It would depend on different factors. For starters, what court would have jurisdiction for hearing the case if Donatella had contested the will?

[quote]Gianni should have anticipated that the family wouldn't have respected his wishes

I think Gianni actually thought they would. Donatella did not. Sometimes people can be blind when it comes to their family.

You are right though, Antonio could have fought her harder. He has basically admitted he didn't. I mean the guy did have his partner get shot in front of their home and had to be the one to find the body. I don't think he wanted this protracted, public legal battle.

R275 Mate her accent is not Southern Italian in this she sounds very Spanish. She also sounds very Spanish when she speaks English and when she does speak Italian. She's done Italian language films and she has a pronounced foreign accent when she speaks Italian. They could have cast an Italian actress for this role instead. Penelope is too beautiful and accent challenged for this role. She's a good actress but she was miscast in this.

Italians have played latinos so many times that having the reverse in this case doesn't bother me.

I'm doing yet another gay role?! A gay role I'll be touring all awards season on? Alright, I definitely need to blast the heterosexuality stronger.

I'm engaged guys!

R312 Just for you.

I'm not r312, but damn. Ricky Martin is 46 and still has a pert ass, congrats to him.

You mean congrats to Jwan.

R320 Call me mercenary but I would have fought the cunt and sued for court costs as well, if she contested the will. It was his money, he was left it legally. He gave in, apparently due to depression, but I think the sheer anger over the senseless murder and the greedy, ugly sister would have energized me.

Donatella didn't want bad publicity. She would likely never have let this go to open court if Antonio had dug in his heels.

r323, I got second-hand embarrassment from that. Where is my cream, I need my cream.

R300, Versace rhymes with "Chachi."

I've seen him on Glee, a few times but I had no idea Darren Criss was so hot. Oh, and he announced his engagement to his girlfriend of 7 years yesterday. Little fucker.

R321, I think she's doing just fine. And I understand why they cast her. She has the marquee name the international glamour associated with Penelope. I had misgivings when I heard she was cast, but I thought she did a good job.

Have the ratings been released yet?

Yeah it was down a lot in the demo from the OJ premiere, which got a 2 in the demo while this got a 0.7.

But I don't think that is a surprise, this event never captured the public interest the same way the Simpson trial did.

No, r329, it rhymes with "botch hey"

R329 is just as big a hick as Nomi Malone

[quote] Yeah it was down a lot in the demo from the OJ premiere, which got a 2 in the demo while this got a 0.7. But I don't think that is a surprise, this event never captured the public interest the same way the Simpson trial did

It's also very gay which some people will avoid too.

Hubba hubba

R337 - Beautiful.

No way is Darren Criss not gay. Look at R323's "engagement" pic - he's smiling like Andy Cohen.

The whole murder case is shrouded in mystery and I often wondered what his siblings had to do with it. I would be scared shitless of those two. It's a southern Italian family, they know how to handle stuff.

[quote]Call me mercenary but I would have fought the cunt and sued for court costs as well, if she contested the will. It was his money, he was left it legally. He gave in, apparently due to depression, but I think the sheer anger over the senseless murder and the greedy, ugly sister would have energized me.

You say that now, but then it was a different time . No legal standing, that's why some gays had to resort to adopting their partners.

Ricky Martin's ass.

Thank you r341......so many fail to realize that even just 20 years ago, the world was an entirely different place for gays. Its the same with womens rights. It will be interesting to see how the attitudes change in 10-20 years for these people.

It's pretty good so far.

Mo phat ass.

If you people are watching it primarily for the ass shots and simulated sex scenes, it would seem that porn would be a better and more immediate investment of time.

Mo ass!

Commenting on the nice male butts on display is what makes discussing this show on the DL different than discussing it on some generic TV forum r346.

R348 - Thank you.

Versace - [verˈsaːtʃe] vehr-SAH-cheh

ver-SAYCE!

Versace made some classy frocks!

I think Ricky did a good job, seei my as i had no idea it was him.

Penelope's accent is distracting. I don't care if it is authentic or not. I cannot understand a word she is saying.

I can't imagine another 8 hours of this but I'm hooked for now.

Try as she might, Penelope cannot get rid of the lisp.

R341, R343 Antonio's legal standing wasn't based on gay marriage (not recognized then) or palimony. It was a matter of inheritance. If he'd tried to sue with nothing official in writing, he probably would have lost then (and now).

However, a will is hard to contest. Versace wasn't a senile old fool, or insane, or an invalid being manipulated by those around him.

My partner had a codicil put into his will that if anyone tried to contest it they'd automatically be disinherited. he did it for me. I got 1/4 of his estate. He had a rotten brother and his homophobic bulldog wife and they wanted to grab more "for the kids." But they were advised not to risk it. I later found out that sometimes codicils can be successfully challenged. Luckily for me their lawyer was as dumb as they we re.

[quote]this event never captured the public interest the same way the Simpson trial did

Maybe that's why I found this (so far) more compelling than the O.J. miniseries. It was so heavily covered with a televised trial and all, and for such a long time. The Cunanan story pretty much died when he did.

There are few true crime events that captured the public's intrigue the way the OJ case did. Maybe the Manson murders and the JonBenet Ramsey case is about all I can think. Possibly Columbine.

R356 - You just love that you got to use "codicil" in a sentence.

R358: Good golly, it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to find an actress who will do Patsy Ramsey justice. Where is there an actress so beautiful who can also act . . . innocent?

R358 Sandy Hook would be another, but tbh Columbine and that would likely be grossly irresponsible to do. Shootings and suicides are the things that professionals tell tv to not report on excessively and in depth, because there will be copycat shootings and suicides.

I wonder if we'll ever see a movie/tv show about Sandy Hook. The story is crazy compelling, but it would be almost impossible to watch.

I want the "American Crime Story" people to do the Manson Family murders. They're the only people running who will take the time to do the story justice, hire a good enough cast, and get anywhere near the historical truth.

I've been afraid Taratino was going to make a mess of it, but his project is about LA in 1969 rather than the Manson Family specifically. Yay.

R360 - Delta Burke--about twenty years ago--would have been perfect.

^^ Manson Family murders would be a good one. That fucker's dead and everybody knows who he is.

You'd have to do the Ramsey thing as a film à clef, so you could show Burke knocking JonBenet unconscious and into a coma, and then Patsy finishing her off with the garotte, writing the "ransom note" etc.

[quote]It's also very gay which some people will avoid too.

Yeah, I'm just glad we are getting this series where most of the main characters are gay men. Kudos to FX for green-lighting this.

This season was supposed to be about Katrina but at this point it's supposed be the theme of season 3. Season 4 is rumored to be about Bill Clinton's sex scandal.

R366 - Charles Busch could play John Ramsey.

John Ramsey...

R369:

POLICEMAN: Sister, did you kill JonBenet?

JOHN: [Voice of Angela Arden] Not really.

R371 - Yes.

Charles Busch could play both John AND Patsy Ramsey. Awards season, here he comes!

I would watch a Columbine series. It would be challenging to find a good Eric Harris? I guess they could always dye that Timothy Chalomet boy's hair blonde and give him frosted, gelled late '90s hair

[quote]Charles Busch could play both John AND Patsy Ramsey.

That would be so fucking funny.

I thought this thread was about Versace?

C looked like a fish out of water at the opera in the ill fitting grey suit while others were in tuxes or dark suits. Metaphor for his life i guess.

Who was the guy in the box seat, the one who nodded to him during the performance?

r329 rhymes with asinine.

Just watched the premiere episode on FX on demand solely because of this thread.

I was surprised by how interesting I found it to be! I basically know none of the details of the story and found it all to be both fascinating and involving.

I liked it way more than I expected to.

Whoever said upthread that “the energy shifted” when Penelope Cruz came into the episode was right. She creats this new, fascinating character almost instantly and her acting enhanced the material and made it better.

I didn’t find it “slow” as much as I felt like the series was doing a good job of introducing all of the various story threads that we’ll be following through the next 8(?) episodes.

It was a solid debut to me and I felt like they did a good job of immersing the audience in the time period as well as the lives of the characters so that you feel like you’re getting an inside view of the character’s lives and are invested in what’s going on.

Ricky Martin’s acting was the weak link for me :( Couldn’t they get a Mediterranean looking “past his prime” pretty boy type who could actually act and cry with feeling?

I think the Cunanan storyline does definitely have a “Talented Mr. Ripley” vibe to it too (as someone already mentioned) and I’m actually looking forward to seeing his backstory as well as the rest of the series....

They didn’t cast Ricky Martin because he’s a good actor. They cast him because he’s an international star with a huge fanbase that will hopefully tune in each week.

"C looked like a fish out of water at the opera in the ill fitting grey suit while others were in tuxes or dark suits. Metaphor for his life i guess. "

Yeah, well, you always get a mixed bag at the SF opera and ballet, including frumpy or hipster-casual students. Cunanan would have fit in perfectly well and looked much cuter if he'd worn something student-y, instead of an ill-fitting suit, but the Cunanan of the show is so fucking pretentious he'd have to wear something expensive whether it fit or not.

Which brings me to a possible continuity error - the opera takes place in SF (I know, I went to that production and saw the costumes in person), but his wealthy friends actually lived in San Diego. The show made it seem like they were all in the Bay Area at the time Versace did "Capriccio", and Cunanan was living with them and going through their closets.

honestly, Ricky was quite good. I was expecting much worse.

So how many ways did the Miami PD screw up preventing versace's death? So far. 1. They didn't distribute the wanted posters. And 2. They failed to notice C' docs from the pawn shop when he was near the top of the FBI llist

The Versace Case: American Crime Story's Cast vs. the Real-Life Characters

Trail looks like a young Jakey Gyllenhaal.

OP needs to learn how to spell premiere.

The Versace family is not happy with how Gianni Versace's sexuality is portrayed in "American Crime Story"

penélope cruz is... such a bad casting choice for donatella versace

is it really so much to ask for an italian actress to play an italian woman??

American Crime Story: How Ryan Murphy Transformed Ricky Martin’s Real-Life Pain into Stunning TV (Podcast)

R353 Penelope's accent is distracting. I don't care if it is authentic or not. I cannot understand a word she is saying.

I agree I couldn't understand a word! the accent the lisp it was just awful

Try understanding the real Donatella.

Jesus, people -- if you can't understand her, turn on the closed-captioning!

[quote]You'd have to do the Ramsey thing as a film à clef, so you could show Burke knocking JonBenet unconscious and into a coma, and then Patsy finishing her off with the garotte, writing the "ransom note" etc.

Mem'ries ... light the corners of my mind ... misty water-colored mem'ries ...

[quote]The series is mostly about Cunanan, not Versace [R112].

Maybe, but I have top billing, bitches!

[quote][R92]....and Judith Light plays Marilyn Miglin

And Mike Farrell plays Lee!

Ricky Martin on ‘The Assassination of Gianni Versace': "It's been amazing. Very dramatic, very powerful series."

The Dead Dove Near Versace’s Body Really Happened, So 'American Crime Story' Isn't Just Inventing Symbolism

What’s Fact and What’s Fiction in The Assassination of Gianni Versace

Here’s what’s true and what’s artistic license in Episode 1 of FX’s follow-up to American Crime Story: The People v. OJ Simpson.

R346, You overlook the point: Ricky Martin!

I could never watch anything but a serious documentary about Sandy Hook and even that would have to be something pre-screened for me.. It would have to focus on Adam Lanza and his family. Sand Hok seems too ...sacred. Columbine would have to be a documentary too. Didn't Gus Van Zant do a movie based on Columbine?

That was Michael Moore....and he won an Oscar for it....Bowling for Columbine.

R398, we already know that, see R250.

What about École Polytechnique massacre for season 4 or 5? but there's already a great film about Montreal Massacre so Idk

R404, maybe for North American Crime Story.

[quote]Didn't Gus Van Zant do a movie based on Columbine?

Yes, Elephant.

R392 I convinced my mother to try this since she loved Feud. I ended up "translating" much of Donatella for her. She thought I was making it up when I told her the real one was just as bad.

The next American Crime story should be about Aaron Hernandez and why he committed murder, now that's a tragic story, also about a closeted man.

A mixed review, and not so glowing of Criss's portrayal:

Onscreen, the most cumbersome entry is Darren Criss’ take on Cunanan. Wide-eyed and speaking with the high-pitched voice of a liar, Criss is asked to carry the series, but he only has so many weapons in his arsenal. His stare dulls and his voice grates. Rather than develop over time, it’s as if Criss figured out who Cunanan was from the get-go and stuck with it. There’s little difference between the high school outcast in Episode 7 and the gun-toting murderer from the premiere.

Such regularity plays into the deadened serial killer stereotype “Versace” should be trying to avoid. (It also doesn’t help alleviate any concerns over another stereotype: associating homosexuality with insanity.) And it’s not even that Criss is bad; he has moments of raw power, he just doesn’t elevate the material the way Sarah Paulson, Sterling K. Brown, and David Schwimmer did for “The People vs. O.J. Simpson.” Such comparisons only hurt “Versace,” but if you can avoid them and take it in as not only a new chapter, but a new book, then this new “Crime Story” should satisfy.

ive lost interest

criss was that bad.

I thought Criss was good, maybe overacting a bit. Ricky was fine, especially for a non actor. Martinez was excellent. Penelope was quite good, but it is hard to buy her as Donatella. She has been famous for looking hard for years.

R408 that's brilliant!!!

No one gives a fuck about crime in New Orleans after Katrina. That's why this--ACS 3-- was filmed before ACS 2.

I'm certain they'll drop the NOLA season and Hernandez could be handled in eight episodes. Plus, Ryan Murphy and FX wouldn't be ashamed of the gay angle. CBS dropped it entirely tonight.

R412, someone should write a book about Aaron Hernandez. His life has all the ingredients for a Shakespearean tragedy-- a poor young man able to rise above difficult odds and poverty and become a rising Football star. He had fame, fortune and wealth but threw it all way because he couldn't face what he really was. There also could be a love story there.

The only problem is that his family and friends seem to be in denial and probably deeply homophobic; they would most likely sue Murphy.

R413 Except the part about the tragic hero murdering two men...

OJ was a famous athlete turned famous Hertz Guy turned famous actor. And beloved in all three roles.

He then became the most famous American in the modern era to be tried for a double homicide (and probably nobody surpasses him for homicide, period).

Versace was a name, not a person to most Americans; he was the victim, not the perp, so his story ended abruptly, with no trial.

More ass. More cock. More bedspread.

Who B Dat, R416?

R417 - A Versace model. Don't know his name though.

Was anyone else hoping for a cameo from Enrique Mas and Rose Nylund, reporting live from the scene?

Cruz didn’t even bother to do an Italian accent, she just used her natural Spanish accent, instead. WTF? At least Edgar attempted one.

Bitch and moan.

[quote]You say that now, but then it was a different time . No legal standing, that's why some gays had to resort to adopting their partners.

This. I knew two couples that did that. With one couple, one partner later died of AIDS and had issues with family members and he didn't want them to get anything after his death.

On a similar note, my parents had a friend who lived with his girlfriend for close to 20 years. They had been married before and messy divorces. They decided not to marry because they had some kind of fear that things would get jinxed. My parents' friend had lived in a condo he owned and he set up as a rental after he moved in with the girlfriend. The girlfriend had two daughters from her failed marriage. One of her daughter disliked him. The girlfriend got cancer and suffered for three years before dying. He took care of her and before her death set up a will leaving him some money to her and her house. After she died, the kid that disliked him contested the will. To end the conflict he agreed not to live in the house and gave back to the daughters. He moved back into his condo. The daughter didn't try to contest the money was left to him. This happened in the late 90s and after that he advised several straight couples living together to marry to avoid what happened to him.

Lifetime optioned a miniseries about Columbine based on Dave Cullen's book. This was announced back in 2012 and victims' families immediately protested. The project probably got dropped because of the families' protests and also Sandy Hook probably added to the outrage against it.

Tommy O'Haver, the guy who wrote and directed the movie about Sylvia Likens' murder was adapting Cullen's book for Lifetime. I think his adaption would have been really good.

I don't think that review is valid. The fact is the first episode necessarily begins near the end, the climactic event that finishes Cunanan's run. So Criss is behaving in a particular way. He's unraveling. I'll reserve judgement about him until I've seen a few more episodes. I want to see how Andrew Cunanan acted at the beginning of his spree, in the early days, before he graduated to assassinating a celebrity.

a friend in the media watched other episodes of this. She said there's one about Cunanan and his father that's amazing.

Yeah, many critics noted Jon Jon Briones does a great job in his appearance as Cunanan's father.

But yes, we don't get that type of backstory on Cunanan until near the end of the season. The format of the season annoyed many critics.

[quote]The format of the season annoyed many critics.

It always makes me happy to read something like this.

of course they tell the story in reverse. Who would watch 6 eps about a loser filipino boy with delusions??

That is exactly why they did it r428, so they can start with the Versace murder. With the big flashy characters.

Then once they have the audience work backwards with these victims and characters you have never heard of.

Same reason it is called "Versace", rather than "Cunanan" even though it is actually his story.

thanks for explaining me what i had just said, R429

But when your only justification for an unconventional story format is to try to trick people into watching, you have to wonder if that was the right choice.

I'll make my own judgement as I watch the season, but many critics did seem annoyed by it.

The problem with Cullen's book about Columbine, and it was absolutely definitive. It was meticulously research and a masterpiece of investigative journalism IMO, is that Dave Cullen exploded a lot of the myths that have grown around the event. This upsets a lot of applecarts. The media for one, popularized certain events that either never happened or were inaccurate. It also explodes the myth that these two kids were loners who were weird. It's worth reading. Definitely. In fact I wish more people especially parents would read it. But I can see why a lot of the families might not want the movie made. I can see many of them being upset about a painful episode, but also others who need to cling to certain beliefs about things that never happened.

Penelope looks fabulous as Donatella, but as someone said unthread whatever veneers they jambed into her mouth gives her a lisp.

Yeah yeah yeah r432.

But did he show his ass?

R433. FFS for the tenth time Donatella has a fucking lisp.

a lot of posters on this threads sound like they never heard Donatella speak. Are you sure you're gay??

Criss, like Jackman ,like Effon, have no danger: no smoldering sexuality.

They are all too aware of their bodies as objects that it feminizes them and they LOOK and ACT like objects. And every move, from Criss grabbing his penis in the bedroom scene on looks surface: not from an inner tension in need of release.

Playthings all.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Donatella Versace Interview | In The Studio | The New York Times

I'm nota big Penelope fan, I had no idea she has a lisp, sorry R 436

Exactly, exactly when does this scene of historical beauty take place in the film?

Versace, Fall/Winter, 1991/1992

I totally agree!

[quote]The problem with Cullen's book about Columbine, and it was absolutely definitive. It was meticulously research and a masterpiece of investigative journalism IMO, is that Dave Cullen exploded a lot of the myths that have grown around the event. This upsets a lot of applecarts. The media for one, popularized certain events that either never happened or were inaccurate. It also explodes the myth that these two kids were loners who were weird. It's worth reading. Definitely. In fact I wish more people especially parents would read it. But I can see why a lot of the families might not want the movie made. I can see many of them being upset about a painful episode, but also others who need to cling to certain beliefs about things that never happened.

Yeah, Dave Cullen's book really upset Brad and Misty Bernall, the parents of Cassi Bernall who was believed to have been asked if she believed in God by one of the shooters. She wasn't the one asked. It was shooting survivor Valeen Schnur. While I have some sympathy for the Bernalls, they are assholes who couldn't own up to the fact that the God question event didn't happen to Cassi. They wrote a book and went around speaking at churches before the Cassi myth debunked. They lost that gravy train and frankly I feel they deserved to lose it.

Cullen's book would serve as good source for mini-series adaptation. If it was made for basic or premium cable, the people bitching about could be easily be shut up because not everyone subscribes to cable or satellite and many cable shows aren't ratings juggernauts. Nobody would be forcing Bernall's parents or anyone else to watch.

Sam Rockwell together 10 years with girlfriend and no ring? Whaddup?

R444?

R444 in wrong thread!

Stop bitching about Penelope she has to honor her charatcer. ever see Maya Rudolph on SNL, Donatella has a weird voice inflection.

Ramirez speaks Italian fluently

We have spent so little time talking about how Edgar Ramirez is a closet case.

We know he is into guys, but he has never said that.

He probably dated Ricky, because it is said that they were close friends prior to filming. If they have a good sex scene, then it is confirmation that they dated.

Ramirez has a hint of gay face, so i believe he's gay

Thanks r247.

It's kind of fascinating to look at those pictures even though it's so over the top .

As much as I’m pissed off at Darren Criss, he’s doing an amazing job.

From the premiere night.

This reminds me of when Reversal of Fortune came out. Sunny's friends said, "They got it all wrong. Clarendon Court was much more grand," talking about her Newport mansion.

I've never seen Edgar Ramirez in anything before this, but I have to say I so far find him attractive as Versace.

And he looks good in r454

Have there really been gay rumors about him? Should I let myself fantasize about this one? Or is he just gay friendly?

I love Edgar Ramirez! He had a small role in Zero Dark 30 and I loved him. He did a couple of other things including Carlos The Jackal.Lots of nudity. Hot.

He’s like a sexier version of Versace.

I put him in the same category as Javier BArdem. Bardem is sexy in an offbeat way.

And his accent makes him that much sexier.

Ricky seemed to have been heavily manscaped in the premiere, but he's got a nice hairy chest in some of the preview scenes.

Thanks for the tip, r457. I'll have to check this movie out. I like what I see here!

Next episode goes backwards. Third episode goes backwards to San Diego and then goes forward again. Yes I've seen a bunch of episodes. Darren Criss shows his ass for a LONG time in I think the third episode. Rick Marin has a sex scene with a third man they picked up, while Versace doesn't take part an d is writing.

DL has been telling me that Ramirez sleeps with men for years now r456.

[[463]] You've seen screeners? Does Criss have any sex scenes?

[[R463]] Oops wrote that wrong

The San Diego thing is confusing, because in real life the couple that Andrew is with lived in SD, not San Francisco, so they played fast and loose with the facts there.

Not true r467. Andrew lived with Liz Cote in San Francisco (or Berkeley specifically I believe). Yes, they were from San Diego. And eventually he does leave bay to relocate back to San Diego.

"When I die in movies I get really sick afterwards" - Édgar Ramírez

Watched just now and almost got vertigo from all the crane shots and zooms. Murphy loves himself some sweeping camera but this is overkill. Makes everything too artificial and sometimes slow. Cut it down. He can still get his operatic staging but let's bring in some more dynamics.

Most pleasantly surprised by Ricky Martin, he was heartbreaking. Penelope was fantastic, showed both Donatella's pain and her hardcore, steel grip on the happenings. Edgar also great.

Criss was better than expected. They managed to reign in his tendency to pull Glee faces and overact, and it worked, just like with Julia Roberts when she wasn't allowed to smile in Erin Brockovich. What stagey delivery and overacting he still did wasn't distracting because it works for a character like Cunanan. On Glee his gayvoice acting was forced just a bit too much. Here sometimes the gay voice sounded as exaggerated but maybe that's how Cunanan really spoke,and again it works for the character.

Carlos is amazing it's directed by Olivier Assayas If you want to watch Carlos watch the full version TV mini-series version not the theatrical film

Running time:

338–319 min (full version)

187–166 min (short versions)

Wow, 470+ posts in only four days. The new Datalounge obsession is born!

Will we hit 600 posts per episode for all 8 weeks?

Exciting!

Depends if the shows stays good and fanservicey. Latter is a guarantee but former is up in the air.

R440, OMG, the stupidity. It's DONATELLA who has the lisp in real life. Cruz is ACTING.

Re: the photo at r454. IMO, men who post with their hands touching other men's necks, as opposed to the shoulders, say, are not 100% straight.

"Pose."

"Ryan Murphy and his producers are white hot."

To corny elderqueens and pathetic fag hags, maybe. Most of Murphy's shows suck.

[quote]He probably dated Ricky, because it is said that they were close friends prior to filming. If they have a good sex scene, then it is confirmation that they dated.

Jesus Fucking Christ. No wonder we have millions of shipper frau threads here. "All the gayzzzz fuck each other. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!!!"

[quote] Criss, like Jackman ,like Effon, have no danger: no smoldering sexuality.

Have you ever seen Hugh Jackman as Wolverine? He most certainly was sexy AND dangerous in the first X-Men films.

[quote]The new Datalounge obsession is born!

You say it like it is surprising. Of course DL would be all over this show.

[quote]They managed to reign in his tendency

Oh, dear.

It was the neck wound that killed Gianni. Why so much focus on the face?

Probably the same reason why all superheroes in half their mask off at least half the time. They're actors. They need to show their face.

Also face gore is more shocking.

ver-SAYCE!

Gianni would have survived the face wound no problem. The neck wound severed his spine

The Miami police were utterly incompetent by not picking up Cunanan a full week before the shooting based on the pawn shop records.

I remember Cunanan being covered before the Versace shooting. It was on Geraldo's CNBC show between the O.J. trial and the Clinton/Monica thing.

They talked about a "gay serial killer" and detailed his crimes to that point. They talked about him a few nights running and then BOOM Versace.

I can't remember if they'd named him before Versace. I think they did.

It nice to see that Criss gets it.

"With respect to Maureen—who's been very kind to me—we have an older white, white-collar female journalist, diving into the depths of a community that, uh....She's not going to those parties, you know?" Criss laughs sympathetically. "I don't think she's been to a basement S&M rough trade gathering—I mean, neither have I, but when you [aim for] that sort of objectivity, it can't help but read as lurid fascination. In her defense, I think she had to take the reader by the hand and sort of explain: 'Just in case you didn't know, there's this thing, called this, and we hear they do this.' And while it may seem pandering, it's important to set some sort of precedent for the world we live in."

What a little twat.

He is quite intelligent and very pretty.

[quote]What a little twat.

I think it was a very diplomatic answer, god knows all of us that have read the book expressed the same sentiment in far less kind language.

[R463] Any other tidbits you want to share?

In all of two minutes and fifty seconds Darren Criss becomes a star and earns a #1 hit record.

here

And doesn't disappoint live during the sold out "Glee" tour

The problem was, Orth was willfully ignorant about gay issues, as if it was all just too much. I mean, if you don"t understand something as basic as top/bottom...

I think Criss gives a nude erotic scene later in the series...all nude!

[R495] is that your assumption or......? Also they don't show dick on fx

Miss Criss does not show mussy!

Are Criss' PR people in here?

TV Guide said that Darren Criss gives the performance of a lifetime.

I think it was very brave of him to take on this role. he's doing an outstanding job. I put him up there with Jeremy Renner playing Jeffrey Dahmer and Christian Bale doing American Psycho after Leo De Caprio turned it down because it was too scary.

R499, maybe they meant the performance of Lifetime TV.

[quote]I think it was very brave of him to take on this role.

[bold]brave?![/bold]

Is that a joke? Please will be the the lead character on this series that won every award last season?

How brave of him. Please this is the opportunity of a lifetime for him, one he is very lucky to have since he happens to be the physical embodiment of this character so he was the only real choice.

Don’t be so jealous.

....jealous? What is with that kneejerk response obsessive fans have. So odd.

I am not an actor nor have I ever wanted to be, I am not jealous of Darren Criss. My problem was not with Darren, it was with you and your foolish little post.

R379, that sounds like a book report written by a dull junior high school boy.

[quote]I think it was very brave of him to take on this role.

MARY!

Ricky was good

Cross has never been better!

Christopher?

No, David.

I'm not sure if Criss does a good job or not? I hate his character so much I can't really tell. I am loving Penny Cruz. She is incredible even though I can barely understand her. I will watch 3 episodes and see what's what. I am not sure if there is enough there for 8.

Wait, can they show dick on FX? I know I was surprised to hear "fuck" and "cunt" tons of times on Feud and the last season of American Horror Story. Are standards changing that quickly?

I'm happy to hear there's even more Criss ass on display later on. I mean, I'd really love to see him fully nude and spread eagled, but...

.....I didn't know Donatella has a lisp.... sorry for being confused....

I just assumed Penelope had a lisp because she spoke Castilian.

[quote]Wait, can they show dick on FX?

No.

[quote]I know I was surprised to hear "fuck" and "cunt"

Allowing harsher language is a long way from allowing a penis. Americans are weird when it comes to nudity, and a penis is considered the "harshest" nudity you can do.

R515, what if it’s a really small dick?

I don't care if Penelope's accent Castilian, Italian or Portuguese because the minute she appeared on screen the show took another dimension. It's what true movie stars do.

If I had to rank the acting in the first episode from most impressive to least I'd say Darren Criss, Penelope Cruz, Ricky Martin then Edgar Ramirez(but he was given the least emotional stuff to work with).

R518, in last place should be Dascha Polanco. She’s terrible in Orange Is the New Black and she’s terrible in this.

I still cant get over the fact that Cathy Moriarty did an under five.....unless she has more scenes in a flashback to Cunanan going to the pawn shop.

There's no law stating they couldn't show dick on FX. It's not broadcast over the airways. But I tend to doubt it. Movie producers won't even show dick.

[R520] There are BTS photos of Darren and her on set. I think it'll be in the next episode.

Obviously there is no law. But FX has its own standards department deciding what they are okay with showing r521, and they would never approve that.

I think it's crazy they won't show some parts of a naked body but have no problem airing sick violent shit, I don't care if it's fake. Ones natural and one is not.

I'm so pissed they won't be showing hardcore all-male sex. Fucking prudes.

Maybe they'll show in on HSN during one of Marilyn Miglin's segments.

Darren Criss is too classy for that.

[R525] Im not saying there needs to be hardcore gay sex in shows, might as well watch porn for that, the US has a weird view of nudity. Kind of prudish in a way.

I mean in Europe you can turn on a broadcast TV channel and see more nudity than HBO, but Americans are going to be Americans.

This is why it should have aired on Cinemax.

R527 LOL, good one!

Darren Criss actually seems like the type of actor who would do a full frontal scene if offered or suggested.

[quote]But FX has its own standards department deciding what they are okay with showing R521, and they would never approve that.

As I said already, I doubt they'd do that. But I won't say never. They certainly never used "fuck" or "cunt" on Nip/Tuck, an extremely explicit show. Both were in Feud. Times do change.

R521, "Not cast over the airways"? Am I hallucinating my television then?

R534

Do some research.

I remember just about a decade ago when Nip/Tuck was insanely racy and no one could believe some of that stuff even made it to TV. I'd say most seasons of American Horror Story were pretty similar in terms of racy content (Nip/Tuck was sexually explicit, occasionally very violent/gory, and had every curse word besides "fuck" and "cunt"). It seemed like Feud was the first to push the envelope into "fuck" and "cunt" territory and, then, this recent season of American Horror Story had both words as well if I remember correctly. Seemed to happen so suddenly. It's like FX just said "fuck it" and allowed all of this. Not that I'm complaining, but it did seem odd that they're just now allowed to use these words.

I'm kinda hoping they can loosen up the nudity and sex stuff, too. Even on Nip/Tuck, they'd show tons of guy's naked asses, but they weren't allowed to show boobs unless it was an operation scene with two pieces of tape over the nipples. So weird.

I wouldn't mind some Darren dick.

I think Criss is doing a good job so far. The posters who are blasting him may have something against him.

R536 I discovered Nip/Tuck quite by accident, flipping channels. I landed on a sex scene with male ass in full view and thought it must be a free HBO trial from the cable company.

Agree with [R517] and [R537]!

[QUOTE]what if it’s a really small dick? —D. Criss

CGI Silly!

[quote]I still cant get over the fact that Cathy Moriarty did an under five.....unless she has more scenes in a flashback to Cunanan going to the pawn shop.

You get a gold star.

No frontal but you'll have to settle for a Speedo.

It looks like his legs could detach in R540.

That was Cathy Moriarty?!

[quote]TV Guide said that Darren Criss gives the performance of a lifetime.

Whose?

Donatella is a real cunt.

I think Maya Rudolph would have been fun casting! I loved her impression. I think Penelope is awesome though. She owns every scene she is in.

The nicest thing they could have done is cast someone as beautiful as Penelope as Donatella.

Could they add hardcore sex scenes and release a porn version (with all the non-porn footage removed?)

Wonder if there will be any simulated sex scenes where actors appear to be fucking in this show? I want to see Darren Criss look like he's getting fucked in the ass.

Andrew Cunanan was a top actually r548.

Also amusing for someone who tried to work as an escort, David Madson complained to friends that he was awkward and bad in bed.

Nina Arianda would have been great as Donatella she's such a talented actress

R548 Ricky confirmed he has a sex scene

ive re watched it and i cannot get into Criss being the killer

he is not a deep actor, he barely got thru glee!

somthing is missing, cant put my finger on it, maybe its just too miami fake glitzy

Andrew Cunanan was a cousin of mine, and every once in awhile whenever a certain cousin who shares a name with AC's father comments or likes my FB post, I get private messages from friends asking about it. I'd reply, "Oh yeah, we're family! Andrew and I would to have playdates together all the time," which isn't true. Never met him.

[quote]ve re watched it and i cannot get into Criss being the killer, he is not a deep actor, he barely got thru glee! somthing is missing, cant put my finger on it, maybe its just too miami fake glitzy

So we can assume you won't be watching the rest of the series and coming here to bitch episode after episode?

[quote]BTW, here in Italy there's a famous comedian who makes a funny donatella impression. Enjoy.

That was pretty good! Is that the female comedian's' real face or was she wearing a fake nose.

Years ago, RAI was included in Time Warner's basic cable line up, then they changed RAI into a premium channel. I used to enjoy the old Italian films.

^her name is Virginia Raffaele, she's a pretty talented comedian and she is quite pretty! She wars heavy make up when she plays Donatella. Here's her real face.

This is a bit OT, but I started listening to a podcast called Atlanta Monster which is about the child killings and Wayne Williams. I now kind of think it would be a good subject for an American Crime Story season.

Just like they did before, during, and after the run of “OJ,”’people on Datalounge will not stop bitching about the casting for “Versace.”

In case you skippped all 10 threads about OJ last year, all posts can be summarized as “Cuba Gooding, Jr. looks nothing like OJ Simpson!”

Cuba Gooding Jr was a terrible OJ Simpson. The problem wasn't looks, he just didn't embody the character.

I'd say looks were a problem. Nobody bought him as OJ from the first glance. Then comes his iffy acting.

Cuba Gooding Jr's acting was awful in People vs OJ. The other weak link was John Travolta as Robert Shapiro.

But if he looked more like OJ, it would've gone a long way.

Ben Mankiewicz, Brett Erlich and Meredith Placko discuss the first episode in this video review.

I'm surprised Ben would even bother with this fluff.

Ryan Murphy sure is keeping his interns occupied posting on this thread!

Part Two Thread for when this thread closes out at 600

R566, I guarantee you I won't waste another goddamn moment on this thread.

Triggered!!!!!!

Praying the next episode is as good as the first. OJ season had a couple weak points but was very good throughout and thus still gets recommended to people.

So they're implying he has HIV now?

They're really portraying Donatella as a cunt.

Donatella IS a cunt. She didn't want Versace's partner to get what Versace left for him.

[quote]So they're implying he has HIV now?

Yes, he was positive.

Because Ricky Martin is older than Edgar Ramirez (and it shows), it distorts the real relationship that existed between Versace and his young lover.

Ricky with his mid90s Cesar cut.

Yes, even the gays wore baggy, shapeless clothes back then. Remember pleated jeans?

[quote]Remember pleated jeans?

If there is someone in this thread who didn't have pleated jeans or Z Cavariccis, I would be shocked!

Side note - the constant back-and-forth with the time sequence is very annoying. Murphy seems to like this, AHS did this a lot too.

I love how every Murphy associated show he is the chief person responsible for it. The person who actually wrote this series is Tom Rob Smith, but you will never hear his name, only Murphy.

Versace and D'Amico. Someone looks a bit possessive!

What song was that playing in the hotel the canuanan was dancing too?

The Thread Two link:

r579 Easy Lover by Phil Collins and Philip Bailey, which I am surprised got clearance.

Can't believe how much Edgar Ramirez looks like him but in real not too much. Talk about born to play someone.

Max Greenfield fit in perfect here, I believed his washed up hustler from the first beat.

The real Versace bridal look.

Ricky's ass was amazing.

That's good acting by Ricky Martin, pretending he's a top in bed.

That made my dick move

Preview of the new ass shot. You're welcome.

No ass shots in that clip, R588.

There are so many DLers who hire hookers ... still doing it after that scene?

30 seconds in.

Puka shell necklace

The whole Antonio romantically decides he doesn't want an open relationship right before Gianni does is just cheesy TV sentimentality thrown in for no reason.

Gianni dies*

What was.the song played during the fashion show scene?

Here’s the Thread Two link

Damn, you want to make sure that people use your thread. You didn't need to post it like 4 times.

Gurl we know about your thread 2!

Can someone start a second thread? This is almost full and I don't think there is one.

I just realized Daya doesn't have an accent in this - but she does still have the huge ass....her ass is definitely real, but is her accent??