I love the new Will & Grace!

It was a good episode: timely, topical, pretty funny.

Ditto

Any news about how much the four are making per episode?

I enjoyed the recent episode but cringed when they introduced the "conversion" therapy plot and the religious freedom angle. Seems like too heavy a social issue for a sitcom. Whatever, I hope people see how awful and destructive both of them are.

Beverly Leslie was killed off in the last series. Jack got all of his money. But, they did bring Karen's husband back from the dead, so they might be able to resurrect Beverly also.

I hope the next episodes are not as preachy as this one. The best moments of W&G is when they read the shit out of one another (love Jack's 'Will's just a fat lawyer' line)

The producers explicitly said that they are wiping off the original finale from the canon. So Karen never got divorced, Grace's baby does not exist, Vince and Will never got married and have her baby, etc etc.

So technically BL is alive and well in the current season.

They said when they did the reboot that the conclusion episode of the last series never happened, so Beverly Leslie didn't get blown off the balcony in this revamped series.

Leslie Jordan is listed in the cast for episode five. Schedule air date Oct. 26.

Did anyone else notice the framed photo of Mike Pence in the camp scenes?

I thought the whole season was already in the can and then they do the paper towel joke. So they basically need two weeks to produce and air a simple office scene that doesn't involve guest stars? I bet they edit this stuff until the last possible day.

I think the first episodes seem rushed like they thought they would only get 8 episodes.

I prefer them being preachy and topical. I'll take any laugh I can get in this climate.

And I like my drinks peachy and tropical.

If Leslie is on next week, with Minnie(?), can the Beaverhausen be far behind?

Was it about conversion therapy re gay or "conversion therapy" re trans (or did they try to put them together and say LGBT?)

I love the kiss between McCormack and Rannells. I hope the show is saltier and sexier this go-round.

Can you imagine the studio audience's eruption when Beverly Leslie enters his scene?

As good as when he ran into Karen in the country club:

"Why Karen Walker -- I thought I smelled gin and regret."

I wonder if Beverly and Benji are still together ... or if he's remarried after the demise of Crystal.

R18 Yes, I hope they erupt with cheers as well. Just the thought of the audience clapping for Leslie Jordan makes me feel good for some reason.

The Grandoa episode was the best so far of the reboot. The jokes and performances don't seem as forced and awkward as the first few episodes. The plot was funny too.

Andrew Rannells is writing his autobiography.

Beverly Leslie. Is he for the gay actors community what Viola Davis is for the African American actress community? Love that guy. He should get an Emmy just for showing up somewhere and lighten up the mood.

He played Skeeter's newspaper editor in The Help.

The show is funny. The writing is some of the best on television. And the cast delivers. I watch so much news. I'm addicted to MSNBC. However, on Thursday night at 9, I stop everything and tune into Will & Grace. It's great. Very witty at times, laugh out loud other times. I hope it's renewed for next season.

R24 It was renewed for a second season even before it premiered!

Will this be the new thread? The other hit 600 and is closed.

[R26] Yes this seems to be the new thread.

This was posted in another W&G thread so let's post it here as well.

There was ALREADY a second thread. I'll never understand why people who start new threads don't check first to find out if there are identical threads extant. It would make more sense to go to the existing thread before using this redundant one. To paraphrase Ethel Mertz, ONE THREAD IS SUFFICIENT.

The link is posted blew. Enjoy.

r29, "I'm NOT anal retentive EITHER!!!!!!!"

Leslie Jordan abruptly left the cast of Warhol Capote at the ART in Cambridge, MA when he got the call from Will and Grace.

This Thursday should be a good one. Leslie and Karen are hysterical.

By the way, I wish they would have Cher back.

This thread is newer and less redundant. Let's use it.

R31, wouldn't you? Shooting a network sitcom in LA or doing some play in Mass.

OP is mentally retarded, easily satisfied.

I watched the first episode and couldn't get through it. I thought that the Trump administration was a horrible subject to center the episode around and I wrote the revival series off as lost.

Luckily I'd already set a OnePass on my TiVo and I watched the other three episodes tonight. I don't think I could be happier that the series is back. Yes, it still has some of the typical sitcom cringe that it always has, but I genuinely feel that we really needed this Especially the story lines on how the (majority of) millennial's have it so good that they don't realize what GenX went through to make it easier for for them and how the two generations have a hard time relating to each other over this. And the subject of conservative parents who want to fix their kids who aren't broken.

Minus two stars for the use of Google Home however. Google has always easily given up users information. Amazon Alexa seems to be the way to go for greater privacy in voice assistants.

I'm guessing these first 4-5 episodes of the reboot were filmed under the assumption that it would be a one-off season, based on the success of the pre-election special, and it kind of shows: it is trying to ride the wave of topical storylines and jokes while at the same providing some kind of closure in terms of what happened to Leo, Elliot, etc, in those 10 years. It's not bad but the writing is just not as witty or well-paced like in the original and it's the core cast who are doing the best they can with it. I'm hoping that, now that the show has been renewed for another season, the writing will improve. It's not bad but when you see one of the original episodes in reruns, you realize how much better it could be, given the talent involved.

I lost it when Sue used the shock collar on Rannels when he was kissing Will. So funny!

FWIW the Google Home mentions were product placement, as per the end credits.

This is my show!

R37, wasn't the show renewed for the second season way before it even premiered? And judging by Karen throwing the paper towel roll these are filmed and edited fast.

[quote] I thought the whole season was already in the can and then they do the paper towel joke.

They only started taping a couple of weeks before the season premiere, so it's still ongoing. I believe that they will be taping at least through November or early December.

[quote] I'm guessing these first 4-5 episodes of the reboot were filmed under the assumption that it would be a one-off season

Then you'd be guessing wrong. They were renewed for a second season and additional episodes ordered for the first season before the show even aired.

The Trump jokes are getting old. I couldn’t get through the first episode. Trying too hard.

The Trump jokes have been spot on. I can definitely imagine why you aren't liking them, R43.

[quote] They were renewed for a second season and additional episodes ordered for the first season before the show even aired.

OK. But they must have filmed a handful episodes before the renewal announcement. I recall that at least first 3 episodes were screened to the critics well in advance.

No R45. The first episode taping was on August 9th and NBC renewed for a second season on August 3rd. The new series premiered on September 28th.

I don't know if this has been posted already, but here are the ratings for the most recent episode. It held steady at 6.51 million with 1.7/6 rating/share among the 18-49 demo.

Can someone in the US please tell us whether these figures are considered good, bad, or just okay?

Hi, the final numbers went up to 6.69 million viewers (still 1.7 demo). It was the highest rated scripted show of the night (Greys Anatomy was not on that week). It is a very good number which usually almost doubles once they add Live+7 ratings.

They should have named the reboot "Jack and Karen" since as in most sitcoms, the second bananas are much funnier than the stars. "Prissy and Neurotic" could have been another option.

Or focus on Grace and Karen and call it "My Damn Secretary".

R49, like with the original W&G Jack and Karen are great as part of the ensemble. All these characters work together well because they are so different. Too much Jack and Karen would be boring fairly fast.

For every new episode Sean Hayes seems to age an additional 10 yrs. Late onset Progeria? Here's a photo of Hayes, taken during the season 9 finale.

Sling TV has an NBC on-demand channel that features the new season of Will and Grace as well as all 8 previous seasons. I knew rhat Hulu had that, but was pleasantly surprised that Sling has all the episodes, too.

I stopped at episode 3 - thought it was really bad

i loved the original series

Can't go home again

[quote] The first episode taping was on August 9th and NBC renewed for a second season on August 3rd. The new series premiered on September 28th.

Well, there's the explanation - the scripts have been rushed.

The reboot is not funny at all.

Jack makes me hard.

[quote]The reboot is not funny at all.

I disagree. I've loved all episodes except the third one. I've actually been surprised how much the show has made me laugh this time around.

DL fave Sylvia {who outed Sam Heughan on Twitter last Sunday} has some harsh words for Anthony Ramos and his Will and Grace character:

always cremate your relatives. words of wisdom from Leslie

Not a bad episode, but they really don't know what to do with Sean Hayes, do they?

The new Benji made my pants feel funny.

Benjy made me drip precum.

Leslie Jordan was the true highpoint of the latest episode. The other stuff (including Max Greenfield)? Meh (like episode three which, so far I like the least of what has aired so for of the new season).

Karen: Wait a minute! Crystal's already dead. I went to her funeral! You and the original Benji had their first official dance!

Beverly: The first shovel of dirt on the coffin revived her. And I learned a valuable lesson. Appreciate every day of your life and when it comes to your loved ones Cremate. Always cremate!

I thought this one was just okay. I don't know what Grace's assistant is supposed to be doing. He's just kind of there and pops up sporadically. And who the hell is that black guy working with Jack? Also, one thing I noticed is that the lines are sometimes delivered so rapid fire I can't really understand what was just said. Nowhere near as good as last weeks.

"Labia reconstruction."

Last night was great!

Apparently they're able to add in last-minute topical jokes because the B or C storylines are being filmed separately. For example, if you'd gone to the taping of last nights show, which probably would have been in mid-September, you wouldn't have seen Karen's scenes with Beverly Leslie at all. Those were taped separately in the last couple weeks. Speculation is that it has to do with Megan Mullally's schedule. She's been relegated to B or C stories which have been filming separately, often weeks after the rest of the episodes are filmed, which is also how they managed to get the paper towel reference into another storyline for her so quickly.

I didn't care for the first 2 but now the show feels comfortable like it never left and I record every week and slip into it like an old pair of slippers that is still my favorite and very comfortable.

Now the new Roseanne show I hope fails miserably. She is a lunatic and a right win freak and can't even remember what it was like to be poor. Fuck her. Besides the W&G actors all still look good. WTF can look at what the Roseanne actors look like now, especially Dan. He looks like he really did die and dug him up.

good eppy

What does everyone think of Will going into business with Grace instead of being a lawyer or maybe he will be a lawyer for Grace's company but now they will be together at work and at home, too much together???

Will's storyline was totally chopped to pieces for Grace's, Jack's and Karen's separate plots! Karen's got the A-plot, Jack the B-plot, Grace the C-plot, and Will's senior partner dilemma was an afterthought D-plot, even though his big decision affects the future direction of the show. The Will and Grace storyline should have been in a separate episode where it could get full development. I wanted to see Will and Eli's date! Dammit! What a waste of Max. Still Beverly Leslie totally saved this episode from the trash bin... Jack's fan and Karen jacket also were amusing as sight gags.

Episode 3 was a more "touching" remake of the Neil Patrick Harris degaying episode.

Then episode 4 does a second version of the Miguel Ferrer hotel baron who wants Grace to deliver Will's bod to sweeten the redecorating contract.

Where do they go with Episode 5? Sharon Stone re-psychoanalyzing Will?

I thought Episode 3 was Harry Connick.

Yes correction noted.

3 the ex husband., 4 Grandpa Jack, 5 the last episode. Two recycled plots in a row.

Next week is 6.

I agree that the new recurring characters are the only weak links in the show (Grace’s employee and Jack’s coworker.). They add nothing to the show.

Well, the reboot is trying to be inclusive and have recurring minority characters (in principle, nothing wrong with that) but they are basically written as useless props so that an occasional political joke can be built around them.

Hilarious episode with Leslie.

This show came back at the perfect moment in time.

I just read an episode that said this Beverly Leslie episode was filmed on Oct 10, literally the day after the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, and quickly gave Karen the Weinstein line to replace whatever had been there. I love that they’re throwing in such up to the minute jokes.

I loved Max Greenfield as Karen’s hot new boss. And since Will is going into business with her, I hope that means we will get a return of Max and a hot Greenfield-McCormack kiss.

I wonder if Blythe Danner will return as Will’s mom?

[quote]It's not bad but the writing is just not as witty or well-paced like in the original

Oh, I think it’s the equal, at least, of the original. I’m thoroughly enjoying it,

Agree that episodes 3 and 5 have been the worst. It seems like all the actors abilities have improved except Deb Messing. Her delivery seems outdated and like she is trying way too hard to be funny because she’s not. All the storylines with Grace are 😴. We need more Karen commenting on Grace’s fashion, that is the only time scenes with Grace are funny.

R83 I thought the Leo episode (Ep 3) was good, very classic W&G pacing, too. I enjoyed that. The jokes were corny, but the scenes were allowed to develop. Episode 5, to me, was all over the place, Beverly Leslie was great but Will's plot got so shortened it was like he had a flashback of the boardroom meeting, and boom, the end of his date with Eli. WTF. And before you know it, Will just threw away his 20+ years career to work with Grace. Double WTF. I hated the pacing in this sub plot and don't see the point of introducing a working relationship for W&G.

Sorry, R68 that doesn't make sense. Various cast members post backstage videos on their FB pages on filming days and Megan is always in them. Additionally, the way they have always worked on this show is they do 2 takes for every scene, with rewrites in between the first and second takes. And they are still shooting this season, so it's very easy to stay topical. Additionally, it is always possible that they will do a "reshoot" of a scene from a previous episode on filming day to be cut into the episode prior to airing.

Agree with r84 - the pacing was off with the W/G plot line which made the episode seem rushed.

I did enjoy Jack’s scene with the co-worker. Their pondering whether ‘Mexican Stand-off’ was racist or not was the funniest moment of the episode, IMO.

Debra Messing is a genius comic actor. A Lucille Ball of the 21st century.

I still adore Jack! Sean has a great ass. He's like every guy I've fucked. He's looking good too! I'd do him :sigh:

I thought this episode was poorly written and paced, reminding me of the worst of the original series.

r81, they should, since most of the other parents are now dead. RIP Sydney, Debbie, and Suzanne.

BTW, Casting, Will is supposed to be a WASP. Sydney Pollack as his father, no sir. This may have worked casting Debbie Reynolds as a Jewish mother, but it's very difficult to cast a Jewish actor as a non-Jew. It rarely works. (See "The Golden Girls" for two examples.)

They do a dress rehearsal with audience, which is filmed, and a nighttime taping with audience which is also filmed. After the filming and the audience is gone, they do pickups and closeups that they didn’t get in the main filming.

The episode with Karen’s joke about Weinstein was filmed on Oct 10 (per Hollywood Reporter article), which was a couple of days after the scandal broke. She originally had a different punchline there, and they rewrote it to put in the Weinstein bit.

The idea that she would do things later because of her schedule (what schedule? She was the one who wanted the revival more than anyone) is ridiculous. That’s not how multicam shows are done when they’re filmed with an audience.

[quote]Where do they go with Episode 5? Sharon Stone re-psychoanalyzing Will?

Glenn Close as Annie Leibovitz.

R87=Deb Messing

[quote]they should, since most of the other parents are now dead. RIP Sydney, Debbie, and Suzanne.

Hey! I'm still here!

R87 I know she has her fans. But to me she’s a 21st century actress doing an imitation of what was funny in the 1950s. In the first episode, her big “jokes” were both spit takes and not really well timed ones either. That just doesn’t feel funny or relevant anymore. It’s like the Three Stooges poking each other in the eye. Dumb.

R91 is correct. I was at a W&G taping on Sept 6. That taping was probably the 50th sitcom taping I've attended starting in 1977. The writers are always right there on the floor rewriting. The script is never locked so it's easy to add in current events as they happen. In general sitcoms are about 3 weeks ahead of the airing schedule, however, W&G seems to be taking hiatus weeks every few episodes per the cast members social media. Personally I'd rather they left out the Trump/Weinstein/paper towel jokes. It will date the show and make it unwatchable in 10 years.

R94 YESSS! Bring back Veronica as Jacks mom. God they really knocked the casting of all the moms out of the park.

1iota.com provides the studio audience for the show and for that god awful aftershow on YT. It's easy to follow the shooting schedule on the site.

"You were crying so much you looked like Jeff Sessions watching black people vote!"

Love the revival, but cut back the side stories with "wacky" side characters and have the whole cast interact more. That's what we want to see and that's what works.

Do any of you know anything about the office boy? In the first episode his scene made no sense but apparently there's a deleted scene on YT of Karen sexually harassing him that put that scene into context. Since he has been used as little more than an extra and he just doesn't work. Why was he cast? Why are they keeping him? What were they trying to do with that character? It's the weakest link in the show and now that Will will be working with Grace he needs to go.

Some of you can hate Debra Messing all you want, but she is one funny bitch. I love Karen, but Grace is a friggin hoot.

Why does Jack now work with the brother of his original coworker? Did they fire the first actor?

"We had a deal you finger puppet!"

Jack: "What's gay, beautiful and just got rich for doing nothing?"

Will: Jared Kushner.

R89 I think the pacing seemed rushed because they filmed too much and the editing left important pieces out... Just like they snipped out Karen sexually harassing Tony in the premiere, the new assistant/designer, they must have cut out parts of the Will & Eli date in this episode... we only saw the end of it. This is what happens when both Jack and Karen have their own plots, and W&G's storyline gets squeezed for time.

Yes, there seems to be an urge to pack the episodes to keep the viewers exited instead of spreading the love and give the episodes some brief moments to set up a punchline and cover story plots, handled within one episode, in two (or more?) episodes.

^^^^ True dat

[quote] they filmed too much and the editing left important pieces out... Just like they snipped out Karen sexually harassing Tony..

Or perhaps they can see what is obvious to the viewers. The Tony character doesn't mesh with the others....

R107 Yes, this episode could easily be split into two episodes. This should have been a Beverly Leslie episode with both Kathy and Jack involved, and W&G in some innocuous side plot, not this huge change in career twist which deserves to be the main plot of a separate episode.

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

I loved the audience reaction to Beverly Leslie's entrance. I was surprised that Eliot got no response last week.

It's a short season if I remember. I can't imagine them not picking up again. It's doing well, and we really NEED this show right now.

R111 It was 10 then bumped up to 16 for this season. With a second/tenth season of 13 eps to come. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

[quote]I loved the audience reaction to Beverly Leslie's entrance. I was surprised that Eliot got no response last week.

Beverley Leslie (yes, it's "Beverley" [male form] not "Beverly" [female form]) looks basically the same. Elliot is a grown young man now. I had no idea who he was until they said his name. Beverley Leslie is a hoot and was far more memorable on the show than Elliot.

R115 There's a male form of Beverly? News to me.

Beverley

R117 But Beverly is so appropriate in this situation.

The problem of squishing several plot lines into a 30-minute episode can be solved by making W&G a 60-minute program. As it is, it's a blivet—10 pounds of shit in a 9-pound container.

It’s fall finale airs this week. That was quick.

I thought someone said in this post or the other one, that it was going to be 16 episodes.

It's not the SEASON finale. NBC has Thursday night football starting next week.

Fucking sports.

Will & Grace was the 4th highest ranked network entertainment show in Live +7 ratings for the week of Oct. 16-22. The show increased its live rating by 94% and finished behind only This Is Us. The Good Doctor and The Big Bang Theory.

Val is back!

Its return is showing suffering from 2017-era television sitcom editing--and maybe more expensive production costs. Even in the ads-edited reruns of the original series' episodes, there's more time between commercials where the scenes were blocked, built up and filmed better. Too fast editing, dialogue delivery, and trying to keep everybody and everything as if it's still 2007. OK, maybe they need to gel again as an ensemble, where they haven't worked together on a weekly basis again in 10 years. I still take it over everything else around it on network nightly TV, I admit.

Rosie got a great send off. touching.

Megan may have just won an Emmy for tonight's show. Very touching. And SMITTY was back! Perfection!

I was a bit frustrated at how they were treating Rosario's sudden death, laughing it up. Then the last act happened. Well done Mrs Walker.

Why is Will and Grace making me sad? WHyyyyyy?????

Wow tonight's episode was good... it was really sad. They rarely let Karen show any emotion like that.

Emmy for Megan.

I thought that the writing and acting in tonight's episode was good, but why did they kill off the character? I realize that the actress is retired and did not want to come back to the show, but a funeral seems a little insulting. Couldn't they just have said that Rosario embezzled $3 million from Karen and ran away to somewhere exotic? Or maybe she left Karen to become a maid for someone who was richer/nicer/more famous.

I think a send off was nice Now the show can move on from that character, And Megan totally won herself another emmy!!

Shelley isn't coming back because of age and health... if it were a contract or pay issue, they could write her off in a jokey fashion, but since her retirement is final, a tribute episode for her character's death is actually not inappropriate. Besides, she doesn't seen to mind.

I still think the Irish maid is going to evolve into a Rosario clone.

Great episode and Karen's tits looked phenomenal. I don't get why the AV Club gave it C+ and they keep asking what's the motivation behind this reboot. What's the motivation behind any sitcom? To laugh, maybe? Why the hell do people get so analytical with sitcoms?!

"I heard as soon as I came." - Instant classic. Best episode so far for me.

Megan was incredible especially in the last five minutes.

Minnie Driver was hilarious but I wish she had her own episode instead of being lumped into the Rosario funeral. Driver has definitely found her niche with comedy; she's brilliant.

Agree, r136, but the way they've developed the character, it's not going to be the same kind of relationship. She doesn't have the cojones to mouth off to Karen like Rosario had.

[quote]Or maybe she left Karen to become a maid for someone who was richer/nicer/more famous.

Would never happen. Remember, despite their bickering they loved each other.

My biggest problem with the reboot is that it seems too much is crammed into an episode.

This was a really excellent episode. I agree, Megan gets an Emmy nod off this one.

Yeah, maybe that's because they thought they would only get one season. I'm sure everything will feel more spaced out next season.

Is it true that Shelley and Megan really did not like each other during the original run of the show?

We were excited to see the new episodes. But now we think the show is shit.

R145 Is that a royal "we" or are you speaking on behalf of a larger group of homosexuals around you?

I believe that r145, all by himself, is a larger group of homosexuals.

[quote]My biggest problem with the reboot is that it seems too much is crammed into an episode.

I agree. The rhythm still feels off and it’s not the actors. Many episodes have a rushed feeling to them.

r148 I agree as well. If you look closely at the editing, it is choppy and not consistent. I noticed it last night. For example, if Eric is facing a certain position in a wide or medium shot, it appears his position changes when they pull in for a closer shot or they capture him making a motion that is not consistent with the previous shot.

I'm enjoying it overall but there is something off about it. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Same issue in the Karen at the coffin scene. It's almost like they're trying to get better "single camera" close ups in a multi case show.

Just watched the latest episode. I think it was one of the best from either series. I laughed out loud several times. Megan should get the Emmy for this one alone.

Ah, Smitty!

#TVRatings Report: CBS Comedies Send Will & Grace to New Lows

The episode was a bit uneven at the beginning, but builds up Karen's grief until the end. Lorraine was sort of an oddball character to throw in. Her first scene was really just to reintroduce her character and her second one with Will and Grace where she came out of the bushes was more unexpected and actually funnier. The forced part was the W&G who's the boss bickering... it's not like we haven't heard similar arguments from them before. Overall, Karen and Jack did the heavy lifting in this episode, while Will and Grace did their parts in consoling Karen, Grace failing in her over the top way, and Will halfway succeeding with a much needed hug.

I'm genuinely loving this reboot. The cast's chemistry is still on fire after all these years. Last night's episode is definitely Emmy worthy for Megan. I genuinely teared up. Beautiful work. Loved having Minnie Driver back. She's hysterical.

[quote] Is it true that Shelley and Megan really did not like each other during the original run of the show?

No. They had some issues when Shelley decided to announce to the world during an Emmy pre-show telecast that Megan had just gotten married, and Megan hadn't wanted it known particularly (Shelly hadn't been invited to the wedding and was perhaps a bit miffed about that). But they made up and are still good friends.

Of all the reboot choices, seeing Grace turn into a genuine asshole on so many levels was disappointing.

Viva Megan and Minnie. Also Leslie Jordan. They’re the three MVPs.

Shelley Morrison's Twitter is interesting. Bitch is WOKE!

Deb Messing tries too hard and just isn’t naturally funny. Does she resent Megan?

So what were Rosario's last words? "You can have my Jello."?

The new maid was supposed to be in two more scenes, they cut them out. Also the beginning at the office was originally about 40 seconds longer (before Karen arrived). Jack was supposed to take out money from Wills wallet and pretend it was like withdrawing money from ATM. It was funny, too bad they cut it.

R162 They probably cut those to keep Lorraine's second scene in.

I agree something is off too. Sitcoms usually don't have deleted scenes, the scripts are pretty tight. 2 deleted scenes and an edited opening is not good, it's sloppy writing. I suspect having to tighten the show in post is throwing off the rhythm and timing.

Last night's episode was the best so far but I feel this would have been a better episode to reintroduce Beverly Leslie. Lorraine was random and I never want to hear the line "finish myself off in front of your father" again. Messing misfired in her scene with Mullally. Way over the top and frankly crossed the line and made her character straight up unlikeable.

NBC has probably made them speed up, cutting off a minute or so to add in another commercial.

Yes i think this season is shorter. I watched on Hulu and it's coming in just under 22 minutes there. The old show were longer, maybe 23/24 minutes. And going way back the old Rhodas and close to 27 minutes.

R165 They even had "Just Jack" in a Honda commercial. They are milking this revival for every cent! LOL

I wonder what happened to Karen's stepkids. Fat Mason was funny.

Shelley Morrison had lung cancer and breast cancer during W&G. Reading between the lines in her Tweet she probably has a terminal diagnosis at this point.

She's a tough old broad. She had part of a lung removed and beat lung cancer which is very rare. She's had breast cancer twice but wiki said it came back but no dates or citation. Even if she's still in remission from both she's likely quite frail from all that treatment, she was using a walker at the curtain call for the election special last year. Karen pushing Rosie in a wheelchair in the odd cameo would have been very funny but it's understandable that she doesn't want to work anymore.

Perfect episode. Very funny and very sad. Meghan was outstanding.

"I heard as soon as I came."

r136, the Irish maid has been on at least 2 previous episodes of W&G, as different characters. I didn't look her up on IMDB, there may have been others.

Mary Pat Gleason is the new maid.

She was Jane on Guiding Light, paid companion to Alexandra Spaulding.

She has a slight lisp and would say "Baroneth..." I recall. Maybe not.

here's Gleason as Jane; go to 38:46

Yet again they rip off an original run episode. Two actually, Jack running back and forth in the hospital was the same as the episode when Karen was hospitalized, and of course the funeral was an echo of Stan's.

Loved again seeing Smitty and Lorraine though.

I always thought Mary Pat Gleason looked exactly like Chris Farley in drag during those SNL Zagat's skits.

I'm sure this was mentioned upthread but....

Who saw the shower scene and immediately thought "damn, they copied this..."

The writing has improved but the pacing and editing is still off. Also, Sean Hayes is capable of more than just silly stunts of physical comedy, as he proved in the original run. The writers should give him more time in favor of Debra Messing who is the weakest link. Not to say that she's that bad, but her storylines have been flimsy yet stretched out way more than necessary.

I agree that Debra is the weak link. She looks bored, sour and as if she is acting in a different series.

They should just change the name from Will and Grace to The Mugging Hour.

[quote]I feel this would have been a better episode to reintroduce Beverly Leslie.

Oh, I don't agree at all. He would have taken it in a direction that wasn't appropriate. What they should have done is make Beverly Leslie's return the A story, and let it be its own episode. Although that would mean two Karen-centric episodes, don't know if each character has a quota.

r178. it was an obvious homage. Are you headless?

[quote]The new maid was supposed to be in two more scenes, they cut them out.

How do you know? And do you mean they were cut before taping, or that they were taped and then cut?

[quote]Sitcoms usually don't have deleted scenes, the scripts are pretty tight.

Yes they do. Editing and cutting a line, or part of a line, is common in three-camera sitcoms. Scenes that are filmed aren't usually cut - but it does happen occasionally. Usually what happens is that part of a scene or a few lines will be cut.

Taping is done scene-to-scene. A scene will be taped, and there may be a piece of it or a couple of lines that are redone (in front of the audience) before they move on to the next scene/setting. And as has been pointed out, the writers are there on the set and sometimes will change a line right there. They don't really know how the whole show will look/flow until they start editing it.

R184 You are agreeing with the poster you quoted. You both agree than sitcoms don't film extra scenes. You quoted the word scenes and then proceeded to answer about "a line or part of a line". Not the same thing.

For the record I've been working in television since 1976. I got my training sitting in the editing booth with Jay Sandrich and Peter Bonerz. I've never known a 3 camera sitcom to film extra scenes. W&G do seem to be doing this. I found a deleted scene on YT. I believe this is the root of their pacing issue.

Will Anastasia Beaverhausen ever be back?

r183, I think the word you mean is reductive.

Rosario’s pussy stinks.

I have a new appreciation for Debra Messing. She's very funny.

R189 is Deb Messing.

I wonder if those "deleted scenes" aren't actually "digital extras", done on purpose, that fans end up circulating around on social media, creating a buzz around the show. Or for the Blu Ray box set us elder fans still buy lol.

Will is WAY hotter this time around.

I wanna fuck Will all night long! He is sexier now.

Eric M. looked great starting mid-way through season 2. His hair was too long in Season one.

R192 No way. Will in the old series was perfect. Now you have squint to make him look half as good.

Eric should not be filmed in HD. Those crevasses on his face with makeup troweled all over them are distracting in close-ups.

I’d do Eric then/now/whenever - love those suits

Meghan is the one who looks almost the same as she did 11 years ago when the show ended.

Remember when W&G was on, the digital transition hadn't even happened... People were still watching on their big old analog tv. I guess if you stream it on low resolution on your computer screen, you can pretend it's still 2007. lol

one of my favorite scenes from the 'old' Will & Grace....Sandra Bernhard and the Midnight Train to Georgia

Who played Grace's sisters? I remember the older one was played by Geena Davis, right? The younger one I can't remember her name.

Sara Rue

R201 it's Sara Rue....she played Joyce, the younger sister

R202 R203 Thanks. Maybe they can the 3 sisters reunite to deal with some issues left over from Bobbi's passing. Wanna see if they really "hate" Grace! LOL

On the Youtube after show, the show creators hinted that the holiday special in December might be Cher-related... Would they just mention Cher or would they actually have Cher on, I wonder.

I think the 4 actors do better without guest stars.

I hate celebrity guest stars.

R207 Then you should have stopped watching years ago. Getting celebrity guest stars is one of this show's shticks since the first Cher episode.

I have an old tv so no HD for me and Megan looks the same except from a slightly saggy neck, Deb looks huge but the face is good, Eric is too thin and Sean messed up under his eyes with fillers.

The Just Jack car commercial was funnier than the episodes.

Debra was interviewed for one of the glossies and she admitted to having a fat freezing procedure earlier this year. So we know that doesn't work. I agree the extra weight suits her face, she just haven't learned how to dress it yet. They put her in camouflaging clothes that make her look huge.

When Karen said she just wanted to sit with Rosario I lost it. It was really moving.

W&G writer/producer David Kohan hinted that Cher is coming back for the 2017 holiday episode.

See video at: 7:46

Hooray for guest stars!

What episode is r213?

R214 I think it's Edie Falco and Chloe Sevigny playing ' real-estate mavens' in an episode called East Side Story

Now I remember -- Edie tells Will she likes to keep Chloe "hungry."

Was that the one where the two real estate mavens are also of the lesbionic persuasion, and Grace pretends to be attracted to one of them to get a decorating contract from them?

Deirdre and Monet, the Flipping Dykes

I enjoyed Messing in this episode. Thought she was funny.

I sat in the studio audience of W&G during the first season when it was kind of difficult to muster up a full studio audience for a new and very different show. I remember one scene where Jack was answering the phone and he had 5 or six written ways to answer the phone. Then they let him adlib the pickup. Some of them were quite filthy and very funny. But as to the above, they will do retakes with set written dialogue as the episode demands on the fly. This cast is able to do that.

Loved Jack having to dance for Karen!

[quote] Loved Jack having to dance for Karen!

That was the worst part of all the new episodes so far. It went so fast and was so weird and in the middle of a scene where it just didn't make much sense. People were clapping but...it just seemed so bizarre to me.

They have Sean mincing a LOT more than he did before. Him mugging harder and bigger than he did on Original Recipe W&G isn't going to make it funnier.

Whoever chose to cut from Karen sitting by Rosario's casket to the other three in the doorway (with Jack saying, "That's Karen SAD!") should be fired.

I've got to admit that for me episode 6 was a rough one dealing with Rosario's death. That required Karen to make a huge jump from being her regular self centered, foul mouthed self to an an actual human being who cares for someone other than herself on a deeper emotional level. For me the best was Grace making it all about her when she tried to get Karen back to the funeral. Jack being terrified of Karen didn't work for me.

I loved her pulling the spray bottle out of the casket

I've been rewatching the original series and finally got to the finale last night. I hated the way they had Karen kick Stan out. Just didnt make sense to me after all she went through with him.

r223 agree that was unnecessary. It should have closed with just Karen and the casket.

Or have the last shot of Karen slowly dolly/arc around to include/reveal the 3 others SILENT way in the background looking on to her.

I didn't care for the way they glossed over Bobbie Adler's death. Debbie deserved more mention, maybe they have something else planned in the future.

I hope Shelley got a nice big fat gratitude check from the show for using her image.

I love Minnie Driver, her Lorraine is a great character and Minnie nails it every time.

I was also moved by Will silently wrapping his arms around Karen at the bar and her holding him in place when he tried to let her go. Nice touch.

R229 Of course, Shelley got a check. That's probably why they wanted to do a big tribute episode so as to include Shelley in the success of the reboot. Otherwise, they could have just dangled Rosario's unseen presence and referenced her in passing for the rest of the run.

Yes, thank God they were not cheap and used Shelley's pic.

Many years ago I heard Shelley and Kathryn Joostyn (Desperate Housewives) speak as lung cancer survivors. I'm so glad she's remained healthy for so long and I hope she got a big fat check.

get that money Miss Shelley

I hope Minnie Driver gets an Emmy nom for Guest Star. She was so good!

Cher sounded like a pain in the ass to work with. I wonder how difficult it was to have a different big egotistical star on every week.

r234 totally agree. I love that Minnie is having a career renaissance as a comedic actress (About a Boy, Speechless). She is an absolutely brilliant comedienne.

Overall, I give the new (continuing?) W&G an "A".

Not many other shows where you could get the whole cast back and everyone's in such good shape.

Nobody died. Nobody couldn't come back (well, except Rosario!). Nobody was too high on drugs.

I agree Jack's line at the end should have been cut.

Any chance Blythe Danner makes an appearance. Loved her in the original run.

Rosario farted alot.

So does Jack, who blew out his a-hole with way too much anal.

R240 What do you mean? Jack is obviously an exclusive top... even with Rosario.

The resuscitated W&G is a huge hit. Good for them. In addition to Roseanne, it will be interesting to see which other old sitcoms will be raised from the dead.

Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

[quote] Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

Why? It was OK but not something that amazing. Are you that nostalgic for *anything* 90s? Should I play you some Ace of Base?

Well, there's also that Kevin James sitcom which is, basically, the reboot of "King of Queens" now that Leah Remini is a co-star.

I'd watch a reboot of Frasier, where he's doing a live podcast/webcast version of his radio show from his schmancy condo after retiring. Roz and friends would drop by to visit and get him out of one problem and into another. Hopefully John Mahoney (Martin) would still have some scenes here and there. Might need a 3rd dog actor tho.

Oh, lord... time-traveling W&G!

[quote] Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

My nipples get hard just thinking about it.

Looks campy and fun but also like it go horribly, horribly wrong.

Airs tonight!

That promo looks terrible. I am going to watch it but I am not very happy about the theme of the episode.

What is that other show in the promo? With the gay cliches in the store?

I will have to turn on closed caption for this one. Those accents are horrendous.

I think it looks hilarious. Can't wait.

Best thing about this is that I discovered the show that comes on after it "great news" I love it and who knew Nicole Ritchie could be sort of funny.

Deport Eric McCormick.

Gayface is blackface.

Cancel that fucking show, kick that breeder hoser out of MY country, and blacklist everyone involved with it

R247: More glorifying goyism at the expense of Jews, especially when we have a fake president of German extraction with a lot of Jew-hating followers.

Gays against Swill & DisGrace

The fake Jew troll is at it again.

And out come the antisemites, proving that Deb Messing paying lip service to Judaism had no effect on its viewers.

Smitty!

1912: Closeted Will is attracted to Jack.

Was that directed at me r259? I'm not an anti-semite.

Grace is doing a bad Barbra does Dolly does Fanny Brice accent. Bonus points for a huge and gaudy Mama Adler painting hanging in the parlor.

God this is awful

It's like they took everything I hate about being gay and made it into a sitcom. All the casual cruelty, all the shallowness, all the Eurocentrism, all the fetishization of masculinity, all the glorification of promiscuity, all the subservience to heterosexual females at the expense of gay autonomy, all the political one-sidedness. I can get that here on DL from people far less obnoxious than they. That's how much I hate that show: I would rather be on DataLounge than subject myself to it. I've honestly read funnier jokes here on DL. For a comedy that neither makes me laugh nor offers characters I care either for or about, characters being of the same sexual orientation as myself just isn't enough.

Matt Damon in Downsizing couldn't even have his head shaved for the role? That nude skull cap look ridiculous and does the unnatural wrinkle when he emotes. Vain asshole.

They actually brought him back after that "gay actors should stay in the closet" bullshit? Seriously, fuck this show. And I don't mean in a good way.

Who, R267?

R268, meet R266.

In case you forgot.

I am R266 and R268. I asked because I was referring to Damon in the film Downsizing. It was shown during the commercial break. He was not on tonight's W&G episode.

Will and Grace (1998-2005) was a multiple-Emmy award winning sitcom about a gay man, Will (Eric McCormack), his best friend Jack (Sean Hayes), and their heterosexual female life partners, Grace (Debra Messing) and Karen (Megan Mullaley).

I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set.

Here are the top 10 things I hate about it.

1. I know that some gay men (and straight men) have feminine mannerisms, but every gay male character on the program, except for a few famous guest stars, prances. They wear face cream and listen to show tunes and call each other "Mary." Will goes even farther. He believes that he is a girl, literally. In one episode, Will's visiting cousin states that he needs "a woman's opinon" about something, and Will immediately chirps "Sure, I'll be glad to help."

3. Every gay stereotype you ever heard is absolutely true. Grace or Karen frequently make astonishingly homophobic statements, and Will has to admit that they are correct. In one episode, a gay man has to pretend to be interested in a woman, but he doesn't know how. Grace says: "Treat her like your mother." Will protests, "That's homophobic! All gay men aren't in love with their mothers. . .um. . .ok, ok, treat her like your mother."

4. Gay men like sex with women. A lot. Will/Grace and Jack/Karen are always cuddling, smooching, pawing at each other. Will and Jack occasionally kiss other women, too.

5. But they like sex with men more. That's right, gayness is a sexual preference. You have to try both sexes, and decide which one you prefer, like deciding between strawberry and chocolate ice cream. In one episode, Will admits that he had sex with a woman in order to "be sure."

6. They like sex with men, but relationships are heterosexual. Will gets married to his cop beau in the last episode, but before that he had 3,000 episodes paired with Grace. And the last episode fast-forwards to reveal Jack and Karen living together for 20 years. Same-sex bonds come and go, but heterosexual bonds are forever.

7. There is no gay culture. Will and Jack must spend all of their time among heterosexuals, because there are no gay political groups, social groups, sports groups, churches, or community centers. Just a lot of gay bars, and in one episode a bookstore.

8. All gay men are affluent sophisticated lawyers who live in Manhattan and have gym-toned physiques and listen to show tunes and are utterly self-absorbed. Of course, the straight women are the same.

9. There are no lesbians. Will is constantly telling people that he is gay, but Grace only states that she is a woman. She doesn't have to mention that she's heterosexual, because lesbians don't exist. Except in one episode, where they were portrayed as butch, predatory, and "confused." One "changes back" into heterosexual after kissing Will.

10. Sean Hayes utterly refused to acknowledge that he was gay during the entire run of the show. I can't imagine how much internalized homophobia and self-hatred it takes to do that. Of course, if he actually believed all of the contemptible things his character was saying about gay people, I can understand why he would hate himself.

11. Leslie Jordan plays a flamboyantly feminine gay man -- even more feminine than the other characters, so much that Karen's homophobia changes from ridicule to hatred. But he insists that he is straight.

12. Grace and Karen throw around "fags" and "homos" with utter abandon, and instead of calling them out for their homophobia, Will and Jack meekly accept the abuse.

13. Sorry, I couldn't confine myself to 10. But this is the last one: Will doesn't know that gay men exist.

In one episode, Will is going on a blind date. As he sits in a restaurant waiting for his date, he strikes up a conversation with the man at the next table. He states that he, too, is waiting for a blind date. At this point, what would you conclude?

Right.

But Will doesn't. He says: "You know how women are, they always like to make an entrance." He is gay, and yet he is absolutely certain that every man on Earth is straight.

Postscript: I just heard some horrible news. After 12 blissfully gay-free years, self-hating Willa nd Jack -- and their fag-hating life partners Grace and Karen --are returning for another season of homophobic hijinks. Somehow, with the new fascist regime and the throwback of gay rights to the 1950s, it seems fitting.

It's a sitcom R273, and as much as you want it to be the most perfect (read boring) representation of the most perfect gay men ever that's not what sitcoms are about.

[quote] It's a sitcom

So were [italic]Hello, Larry[/italic] and [italic]Joanie Loves Chachi[/italic]. Those are its peers.

[quote] It's a sitcom [R273], and as much as you want it to be the most perfect (read boring) representation of the most perfect gay men ever that's not what sitcoms are about.

Oscar on [italic]The Office[/italic] succeeds where both Will and Jack fail: at being an openly gay character who is funny, relatable, and believable. He, Stanley, and Phyllis are the only ones who would ever keep their jobs at Dunder Mifflin if they and it were real. Darryl on [italic]My Name Is Earl[/italic] is also a more interesting gay character as he is a survivor of childhood bullying from Earl and it has affected his relationships with men.

Quit while you're behind and stop making excuses for this show. In doing so, you pander to the soft bigotry of low expectations. Demand better from the media because we need and deserve better.

[quote]Rosie got a great send off.

Now she ruined two NBC sitcoms.

R273 you're a moron. You need to get a life! It's a SITCOM for goodness sakes! I'm happy that it's come back on NBC!

wow! someone is trying out their college thesis on this thread. publish a book, then we can all save time by not reading any more of your diatribes. and maybe see about getting a humor transplant.

R273 here. I'm in the right thread. WTF are the rest of you humorless bitches doing here?

Oops! I'm R274. The anon with the stick up his ass is R273.

[quote]Oscar on The Office succeeds where both Will and Jack fail:

Unfortunately The Office was such an unbearably unfunny piece of shit show that it didn’t matter.

R272 and 273 makes the mistake of thinking that everyone is interested in what he has to say. In reality, no one is, especially when he decides to write a thesis.

[quote]I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set

There’s a very simple solution. DON’T WATCH IT, AND DON’T VISIT THREADS CELEBRATING IT!

I suppose you feel like you need to bombard people into sharing your beliefs. But you can’t. It’s futile, so just cut your losses and pretend it doesn’t exist, instead of trying to shit all over the people who like it.

Life is really that simple.

"I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set."

If you have such an extreme reaction to this show you may want to look inward to seek answers. You can start by doing a backflip up your ass.

I need Karen out of the manse and in a penthouse wearing rubies with a lesbian affair with Rosie or that chick who plays Clinton as potential paramour.

I need Karen to hand it to Gwyneth. That sort of thing.

I need Karen at a Japanese karaoke bar belting this:

Karen at Karaoke with new Japanese boyfriend. Something.

R284 but then what would they do with their lives without spreading their misery?'

Charming episode but very light on humour. The very first joke with Grace and the cashier flew straight over my head. I'll have to watch it with the CC on again to spot the wordplay or whatever that made the audience laugh.

Also, what the hell [italic]was[/italic] that cashier's accent anyway? Portuguese?

The Christmas one was really bad, and I loved the previous ones.

It was nice, however, to see Bev Les.

It wasn't great but I enjoyed Karen and her irish accent and it was still better than that crap that followed it after"superstore"

They should have just done a regular episode or a Christmas special in the present time.

Virtually all of the actors must learn to speak properly, W&G is the only TV show I consistently have to watch with closed captioning on just to undersand what the principals are saying. Alas, Karen, my favorite character, is the worst offender.

ratings hit: 7.12 million viewers last night. about 5.4 were DL hate watchers apparently...

Now they all speak improperly? Maybe it's time for you to get hearing aid Grandpa! You are all WAYYYY to critical! Here's some advice: if you don't like the show DON'T WATCH IT! SHEESH!!!!!

Will & Grace is and always will be the best show on TV.

The show’s Christmas episode scored a 1.8 rating in adults 18-49, tying “The Voice” for the lead in Tuesday primetime.

Kind of sad the Rosario episode is the lowest rated episode of the run so far. But that week, CBS pulled out all their comedy big guns.

Am I the only one who hated the last episode?

The Rosario episode was very sad. The one with SKIP was the best.

To R295: Listen, prick, I'm not the only person on this thread who has complained about not being able to understand what the main characters are saying on W&G. I'm in my early 40s and have excellent hearing acuity, but when characters are talking excessively fast and simultaneously mumbling, I know the problem isn't mine. You obviously have never seen the program, or you'd know what I was talking about. FWIW, W&G is the only TV show I ever have to use closed captioning on. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the program. Get your head out of your ass.

Yeah, the problem is you. I don't think I've ever not understood what they're saying and frankly can't recall anyone ever making that complaint before. I've seen every episode and I don't know what you're talking about.

To R295: R65, R126 & R250 have also posted comments on this thread complaining about not being able to understand the dialogue without CC, and there were also comments about this on the previous W&G thread. I think the only other times I've seen people on DL talking about using CC had to do with some British programs that were difficult to interpret without it. Just because you were apparently a graduate of the Evelyn Wood School of Speed Talking doesn't mean we all are, so take that stick out of your ass and settle down, Bevis.

R303 You're alone on this one. Full of s**t really. Just admit it. Where do you live, somewhere in the country with a population of 100? Where people speak reeeeeal slowwww and drag the words out? Maybe that's the only speech you understand. If you're going to watch a show that takes place in New York City you better come prepared.

Just watched the episode, and thought it was fun. Not great, but it had its moments. And I don't recall ever not understanding anything that was said.

I thought it was on winter hiatus. Did I miss a new episode? I think the last one I saw was Rosario’s death.

R306, you're fine. The last episode before the hiatus was Rosario's death and they returned last evening with the Christmas episode.

It’s so broad, even by sitcom standards. WHET subtlety?

Critics Choice Awards Snubs, according to cartermatt.com--

[quote] 4. Will & Grace – Despite all of the buzz around the arrival of this show and discussions about it getting a ton of awards-show love, how did it get only one nomination for Sean Hayes? How did Modern Family get a nod over it?

I think Sean Hayes is a fantastic comedic actor. Actually I think the whole cast is great, but Sean is the standout with Megan coming in a close second.

Sean takes dick up his ass. Gross!

Yeah, Karen in this one is weirdly subdued in many episodes. They need to have her be a little bit more Old Karen.

The Christmas ep was....interesting. Not a bad idea, but a bit long with the fantasy bits. Who knew Hayes had guns like that, though? Also, Eric looked amazing in those old fashioned flat front pants. Yum.

[quote] How did Modern Family get a nod over it?

Someone has to be paying for them at this point. That show is one of the shittiest, dullest shows I have ever seen.

When will Deb just go away? Can it be soon, please?

R314 Can you just go away? Can it be now, please?

Debra’s pussy stinks.

I loved the Smitty joke with the kid.

Just watched the Christmas special... It was funnier than I thought. "I ate a rat."

I love Modern Family and the characters, but dear god the new episodes are like stale bread. I imagine Modern Family gets nominated because some big powerhouse's meemaw loves the show and considers it edgy with their occasional double entendres.

Surprisingly, it was just nominated for Best Comedy Series at the Globes, and Eric McCormack got a nod as well.

Sean Hayes got a SAG nomination for Best Actor in a comedy series.

Hayes continues to age a good 5 yrs per episode. Eric McCormack is 7 years older (54) but looks so much better than Hayes.

It's back tonight, bitches! 9:00pm Will & Grace ALL NEW Will and Grace try to convince themselves they are okay with dating the same man.

Megan’s husband, Nick Offerman, plays the guy that Will and Grace both date.

But R324, how did a plumber from Connecticut become the paramour of two middle-aged roomies in NYC?

Is this his first time on W&G?

No R326, that's why I made the joke about him being a plumber. He played a plumber, I believe it was one of the Thanksgiving Day episodes. I think he was called to repair a problem at Will's mom's house in Conn.

The slapfest between Jack and Karen seems more interesting than Will/Grace's dating life.

They're mocking the commercial Kars for Kids song with Trucks for Tykes.

Meghan's husband should never, ever play the object of anyone's affection. He looks like a middle-aged drunk just stick to character parts.

As soon as I heard Offerman’s role, my first thought was this is a miscast.

Serial killer, check, serial killer assistant, check, plumber, check, porno plumber, check, mutual love interest, ahhh no...

I hope they realize they're giving free promotion to a scam nonprofit.

Did Deb Messing have work done since the last aired taping? Her eyebrows are almost in her hairline.

Worst episode of the season. Really unfunny.

There wasn’t a single episode that wasn’t brilliant before this one, but this is a real misfire. Not even Jack and Karen are any good in this one.

the slap fight was great fun. and many of the one-liners was laugh out loud funny. and for a 50+ year old bod, nick looked quite good.

I did like Karen’s final line.

Unfunny episode, though I’ll admit I thought Nick Offerman was kind of hot.

They actually built a B story for Jack and Karen off of a one-liner about a song. I couldn't believe that was their entire plot this episode.

The bit with Karen, the coffee and the flask made me laugh out loud. But other than that....

I did like the Winona Ryder overreaction line. But otherwise worst episode so far.

The whole episode could be this, and it would be fine with me. Will and Grace are rather annoying when it comes to dating and work.

The whole episode should've been just Nick Offerman naked.

I know he's married to Megan but he was miscast for the role of the chef. They had a similar episode with Stuart Townsend as a sexually fluid free spirit pastry chef and he was a hell of a lot more convincing than Nick.

I hate when shows recycle plot lines.

Unfunny episode, worst so far this season. I'm glad DL is a "safe place" to express this. In the Will & Grace Facebook groups you'll get attacked if you don't LOVE every single episode.

Both Will and Grace look so haggard (this show really shouldn't be broadcast in HD) that, in real life, they'd be lucky to sleep with anyone like Nick, let alone a younger hottie.

I chuckled at the "Yum" letters at the cooking school, reference to Riverdale and KJ, etc... Almost like the writers read DL.

That inside joke of Karen saying he wasn't her type at the end was brilliant, because it's discussion group/water cooler gold.

As much as I love W&G, I will have to agree that this episode was just not funny. That whole B plot line for Jack and Karen was stupid beyond words. And as has been the case in a few other episodes, too much plot to fit into a half hour with Offerman's bisexual character. It all felt rushed. And the ultimate sin, it just wasn't funny.

They all look so haggard it's distracting. Eric and Megan look okay but Debra just looks weird and harsh and Sean looks like too many fillers and caked on makeup.

Well, they all got older, television displays got a lot bigger and in HD, so not really surprising. However, not sure what it is about Debra's hair/make-up this season but it's definitely different (vs Karen who has a very similar look). I sometimes get a flash of post-Cheers Kirstie Alley.

R348 True... Nick is more in their current Eldergay/frau league realistically! LOL

replace the hag that plays Grace and i may watch it....

R354 That's never gonna happen. So bye!

"Breadmaking, lovemaking, is there a difference" - missed opportunity for a yeast joke.

It got its first straight A from the AV Club and they're calling it a perfect episode. I didn't think it was that funny but loved the song B-plot. And Nick Offerman was incredibly sexy; that haircut makes a world of difference.

Molly Shannon next week!!!

Jack's ass looked amazing in that scene where he was alone with Will. Those were perhaps the best fitted jeans he's ever worn on this show. And Nick's ass looked great as well.

When I look at Nick all I see is an out of shape guy who looks like he drinks. I guess you guys have your beer goggles firmly in place when you gaze upon this heavenly wonder.

In reference to the reboot, I feel they haven't dealt with the gap years very well as there seems to have been no character growth for the fab four. Karen is still making fat jokes about Stan. Will's history with Vince seems pretty much erased and he's just as desperate to be loved and to get laid as always. Ditto for Grace except they kept Leo in her story. And Jack is just an older version of himself which means he's still acting like a twink except now he knows he has to wear spanx. Jack has shown some self-awareness about aging but he's still the cheap gay joke go-to guy.

They keep re-tooling old eps for S9 and yet there is so much more they can do to explore the characters without turning the show into an AARP infomercial. The Jack is a grandfather ep was a good start and showing Karen's caring side when Rosario died was stellar but they seem to have more filler than ever this season.

It's a SITCOM, Rose. (aka r359).

R361 Yeah, zero clue what you're on about. This is an international message board; you do know that, right? Perhaps tailor your references accordingly? Just a suggestion.

It's a famous Golden Girls reference, miss "euro gay" dumbass.

Offerman is dirty hot. Some of you are nuts.

Latest episode sucked - the baker guy was not attractive at all and the entire premise was stupid. "All the young people are fluid now" but all three were pushing 50! It would have been funnier if it was a younger guy maybe but they did that show way back in the original series with the hot bisexual guy who worked for Karen. It was funny then because they didn't try to push this "everyone is now bi/fluid" BS...I fear for the future of gay rights - we are letting ourselves be erased. Maybe they'll have Jack sleep with a woman next - now that would be funny because no one would believe it!!!

PS - That AV Club review was ridiculous - the only reason the reviewer was wetting herself over it was because of the "fluid" BS - talk about ideology ruining entertainment...

[quote] I fear for the future of gay rights - we are letting ourselves be erased.

Shouldn't you be out there on the ledge somewhere?? It's a fucking network sitcom, for Chrissake..

r366 First they came for the sitcoms...Wake up sheeple!

I thought Nick was hot, too. He looks thinner and like he might have had some work on his eyes. Haircut looked good, too. I thought he looked younger.

My niece graduated from Pratt a few years back and would see him around campus. He does wood working, building furniture, and knows one of the professors and apparently would use their studios. She never spoke to him, but he came off as unassuming for a celeb.

I haven't seen the new episode yet, it'll be released today on Viaplay (Norwegian streaming service). I'm currently watching old episodes though, and damn.. WIll and Vince's break up made no sense, the reason behind it was so weak. Vince got a job, that's why he broke up with Will.. WTF?! If anything Will was always the one who would break up with Vince, not the other way around. It's like the writers just made up an excuse to break them up, maybe they didn't want to show too much PDA idk. This was 10 years ago, tv back then wasn't as progressive as it is today.

I didn't get the Winona Ryder reference.

This seemed like a hybrid of the Stuart Townsend pastry chef episode referenced above, and the Tracey Ullman cooking class episode. In fact, the set seemed to have been copied from the latter episode as well.

The line about Lindsey Lohan and second chances made me giggle.

Sean Hayes really is a great comedic actor, in terms of physical comedy and line delivery.

It's pretty funny... Laughed quite a few times. Jack's line about being "jelly" was funny mainly due to his delivery and there was his freakout over Riverdale getting canceled (should they really be promoting a rival network's show? lol). Of course, the slapping scene was old school hilarious. You don't even need to know what they were slapping each other for. The ending of the "date" was a bit weak... I excepted a bit more payoff than Will & Grace running off. The ending with Jack and Karen was a bit forced, but Karen's last words gave it a punch line.

I liked the new episode, unlike most people here apparently. I thought it was very funny, and come on.. isn't it kinda true that people today are more sexually fluid? I'm not saying all are, but the younger generation all seem to come out as "sexually fluid" or "queer" these days. I will say that the b-story with Jack and Karen was very weak though.

It was a recycled plot from two earlier, funnier episodes. Once I got over that i enjoyed the episode. This was the first time where I felt the flow was finally perfected this season. The cast seemed to have their groove back... Finally. Having said that, I absolutely hated the Jack and Karen storyline. It was too silly and Karen as just wasted in this episode.

R370, I guess you don't watch Stranger Things.

"Karen in this one is weirdly subdued in many episodes."

This has really been bugging me up until the Christmas episode. Mullally just really seemed to be sleepwalking.

God,this shit is not funny.

timem to have your doctor chrck your funny bone ^

Can a doctor chrck a funny boner^

Story A felt a rehash and B is just plainly stupid. But I still enjoyed it.

Their writers should be careful or viewership would continue to erode. I think this one is their season-low.

Was Nick Offerman's character supposed to be a bit like Anthony Bourdain?

The one thing the reboot can't seem to get a handle on is having a decent b-story. That was rarely a problem during its first run.

Feels like it’s a smaller universe, was easier to have side-plots when they also had recurring characters like Rosario or Will’s boss or even Stan.

Karen and Jack had the best lines in the original run. In the reboot, the writers seem to have given up on them.

I think Molly Shannon is back soon and the next ep is titled "There's Something About Larry" I'm assuming that's about Larry of Joe and Larry. I didn't care for the new supporting characters in the early eps of S9 because they added absolutely nothing to the show and took time away from the main cast.

I just looked up an episode guide for S9 and they have Michelle Obama listed as a guest star. Did I miss something or has she yet to appear? The others on the list have already appeared this season except for Bobby Cannavale unless I missed him, too.

Last Thursday gave new meaning to suck. The show has already run out of interesting and funny ideas.

R387 They are running on nostalgia mostly. But I still laugh, so it's working for me.

I love the latest episode with Nick Offerman. Love his swarmy and sleazy pick-up lines. And of course Karen's last line to him is the best (given that they are married). I guess for me it has a mixture of Mary! or geeking out that makes me love the episode.

[quote]I didn't get the Winona Ryder reference.

Last year at the SAG Awards...

U Beyotches r so critical. If it’s not funny and they look bad, watch something else. I’m glad it’s back for however long. Jeezus. U guys are cunts.

I had actually forgotten about the pastry chef episode where he was fucking Will and Karen.

I thought this episode was actually a nice little commentary on how times have changed since the original episode where they were "dating" the same guy.

Larry and Joe. Joe's a no and Larry is frozen in time.

Val meet windshield.

This looks like a great episode already...

Much funnier than last week’s.

A Val episode without a catfight?

Come on...

Jack was taped within an inch of his life. There's your violent Val moment, R397.

Last week was absolutely TERRIBLE on top of being recycled. They recovered this week though. Very funny.

R399 I thought last week was okay. Focusing on W&G's dating life was just not a good topic, and the jingle subplot was stupid but saved by J&K's physical comedy. I got a few laughs, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.

R400 i didn't laugh once.

Tonight's episode was the funniest of the season- at keast since the first episode.

Can't believe this got a C- from the AV Club when it was the first episode of the reboot that made me spit my drink out several times. It's Molly Shannon warming herself to a fireplace video; how is that C-?! They should really let a gay guy review this show, not a straight frau. I think some things are just lost in translation at this point.

I thought Larry trying to gamely work himself up to fuck Grace was funny. Actually I thought most of the funny bits in that story were Larry's.

Loved seeing Val back. My second favourite TV Val after Valerie Cherish.

-r403 That AV Club reviewer is awful - she thought last weeks was the best because she thinks everyone is sexually fluid now...Ideology usually isn't very funny

For me there has been a disturbing trend with the writers this season. They keep undermining and sacrificing characters in favor of a new plot. I don't think Larry would ever betray Joe like that and now they've created a very uncomfortable dynamic between Larry and Will.

The writers have always remained true to their characters save for the time they "inned" Jack in order to have him come out to his mother during their Thanksgiving Day episode. That went so against everything we knew about Jack up to that point. There were a few other minor things over the eight seasons but they were somewhat easy to overlook.

Did you catch the Call Me By Your Name nod with the spoilt peaches joke?

Ratings are way down already. Looks like the break did them no favors. Now it is merely on par with Superstore and The Good Place.

Has Grace Adler Designs turned into Amanda Woodward Advertising, where everybody on the show is conveniently employed? The writers are desperately trying to shoehorn the recurring characters from the original run into new storylines but, often, it doesn't make much sense or is in line with how the characters were originally developed. Still, some funny lines in the last night's episode.

Megan....

Last night's episode was definitely better than last week's. However, it's still not as good as the original. Larry was the best last night. Other than that, the season seems like they're trying too hard. The original was more like real life, and real situations. Now they seem more like comedic caricatures. Sometimes, dare I say BAFOONS.

The Larry storyline wasn't my favorite... the misunderstanding was too contrived, but if you can get over that. it was sort of funny for the innuendo, like how Joe always thought W&G were doing it. The Val storyline was more madcap, and had better punch lines and plenty of slapstick. Val getting run over, Jack discovering Val's stalker board, Grace having a key to Val's apartment for all these years... I am chucking to myself just thinking about it. I'd give it a B+.

[quote]Sometimes, dare I say BAFOONS.

Dair yoo spelchecc afore yoo put yore witeeness on dizplay?

R412, you have a point, tho I am fully enjoying this revival/continuation; very few shows are in my DVR for season passes.

Perhaps they should have grown up a little over these last 9 years?

Maybe.

I would actually want to see more of Joe, who has a fat ass and can't cook, in this episode. There should be more of a consequence for Larry's action than just a "oh well, this is too much trouble, and Will's not all that".

I must be the only person who thought the Larry/Will/Grace episode was the worst of the season. I was completely unimpressed.

Definitely better than last week's episode. But Megan Mullaley has yet to have a good line this season.

I liked the first six but the ones since they've been back are meh.

And yes, Karen is just OFF. We only see splashes of the old Karen here and there. Does Megan just not give a fuck anymore?

I liked the b story more than the the a. The show's continues to spiral down - surprising as I think its still enjoyable to watch.

The writing is terrible. The Afro-Americar joke was so lame. Karen was not PC but she was non PC with a quirky lighthearted touch. Where did that go?

I am over it...great news that comes on after is way funnier.

It had brilliant moments. Val should be a regular. They should have her do a new hairdo for karen every few episodes.

Karen's best episode was when Rosario died.

R421 That was a good line.... your criticism is off the mark. Karen was mock PC. Her very next line was totally not PC.

I love Great News too.

R425 That was a TERRIBLE fucking line. That's what some straight person who saw 6 minutes of the old show would think Karen would say.

Best episode of the season. I laughed out loud several times!

What happened to hetero couple Rob and Ellen?

R249, that's Blob and Ellen.

It’s actually Blob and Smellin’.

why is OP crossed out? what did anyone find offensive in this thread?

Maybe it is from his comments on another thread

I don't think it works that way, R433.

This week's episode was pretty good. Not so much screeching.

Now I know why its ratings is going down..keep forgetting its on at thurs - 9 pm. I would think I'm not alone in that. But I definitely do watch it later. So i guess that counts.

The writers really don't know what to do with the character of Karen anymore, do they?

what do you mean? Karen is the highlight of the show.

I like the reboot much more than i thought I would. I didn't think Jack's caricatures would play right but it's actually very entertaining.

I can't stand those four losers. Not not, not ever.

I thought Jack's side story was more interesting (and less depressing) than Will's in a way. There is some substance to his encounter with the cop underneath the jokes. (Wonder why they didn't bring back the "pocket gay" line.) Glad to see Vince, and happy he had found a life after Will. Always thought Vince was very one-note on this show. (But what a versatile actor Bobby is, go watch him in Mr. Robot!) Grace played wing-woman for Will and was funny during the worst wedding toasts ever. Karen was off in her own vacuous world competing with a Drumpf!

[quote]And yes, Karen is just OFF. We only see splashes of the old Karen here and there. Does Megan just not give a fuck anymore?

I still think it's the writing that's off, not Megan. Part of it is that they are trying so hard to be inclusive and funny without being offensive.

[quote]why is OP crossed out? what did anyone find offensive in this thread?

The show is very much hated by a lot of people on this site.

Can Will become any more self obsessed or unexamined?

All he had to do was STFU and be happy for someone else.

This is turning into Gay Seinfeld where you really hate everyone of the four.

R442 Did you not see the last scene in the bathroom? Will admitted Vince was better off with someone who could appreciate him.

Apparently, Jack's gay married cop is coming back in the next episode in two weeks. There are only 3 episodes left for this season...

3 episodes? They’ve only had 2 new ones since they’ve been back this January.

I didn't find this episode particularly funny yet it scored an A- from the AV Club. And I think I finally understand now in what way that frau reviewer's take differs from mine; she wants character development and issues related to gay ageing addressed in this show, while I just want to hear the snappiest zingers the writers can come up with. Ironically enough, it's me - the homosexual - who craves a good old minstrel show. Does that make me awful? I swear I regularly support quality dramas but when it comes to sitcoms, I just want to unplug my brain for a bit and laugh my ass off.

[quote]great news that comes on after is way funnier.

I have yet to find anything even remotely amusing in “Great News”

It's got a blonde Brit

[quote] And yes, Karen is just OFF. We only see splashes of the old Karen here and there. Does Megan just not give a fuck anymore?

Due to her hectic work schedule, her scenes are shot separately and then edited in with the rest. All of her scenes with the rest of the cast are via split screen.

r443, it was too little too late. Poorly written.

Will needs to have some meaningful sex. A LOT of it.

This scene went too fast for me to appreciate when watchng, but now as a gif, you can see Jack's pocket gay cop kneeling on the toilet cover! LOL

a sitcom writing teacher said to me once you have your character learn something about themselves at the end of the episode -- that they'll conveniently forget about in time for next week's show.

conflict and loss are more dramatic than settling down, but I kind of miss that Vince and Will aren't going to get together and have baby Ben.

i tried to watch News, because i like some of the cast. but turned it off after half of an episode.

Ryan Pinkston makes a cute little pocket gay!

R445 Actually, I got it wrong. There are 6 episodes left... Season 9 is going to have 16 episodes, and last week's was the 10th.

Vince's Wedding" episode was comedy gold

Doesn't this episode make Will seem like a snobbish WASP? He was essentially nitpicking Vince because Vince wasn't up to his expectation of a bf/partner.

This show sucked then and it sucked now. You are endangering gay people by watching it.

I didnt like the casting of vince's husband.. what the fuck was that?

[quote]Doesn't this episode make Will seem like a snobbish WASP?

Will is a snobbish WASP. Did you not watch the show when it originally aired?

[quote]I didnt like the casting of vince's husband.. what the fuck was that?

He had one line. What was there to object to?

[quote]And they also managed to slap down the charade that is reparative therapy.

OP, see the link at R458. They still support reparative therapy of a different kind.

R460 Of course, I knew Will is a snobbish WASP... his mother is played by GOOP's mom for that reason. ;D It's just that it would be more interesting if his and Vince's irreconcilable differences didn't just come down to Will's stereotypical character flaw. But I guess for a one-dimensional sitcom, it couldn't really be anything else.

[quote]But I guess for a one-dimensional sitcom, it couldn't really be anything else.

My show had more than one dimension.

How do you figure R458 ? I see it as a harmless comedy. Entertainment.

R449, I was at a taping for an upcoming show (it's hilarious, an Emmy nod for Debra for sure) and Megan was there shooting her scenes along with everyone.

After NBC straightwashed a real-life gay teacher as if it was still 1982, can we drop any pretense that this show is pro-gay in any conceivable way, shape, or form?

R458, read R272 and R273. This show is not harmless.

good god. its no wander this country is going down the tubes. W&G is destroying gay america? what the hell is wrong with you people. you need to get your heads out out of your collective asses and take a breath!

We're not the ones with the heads up our asses, R468. We're trying to get you to wake up and smell the erasure from which this stupid and unfunny show is a distraction.

OK, so you guys who are saying it is NOT a harmless show, at least back up your statements with examples or facts!

And R466 what teacher are you talking about that NBC straight washed?

Read the thread about the show at R469. It's a str8washing of a real-life gay teacher from a network with a history of str8washing gay characters but having a weird relationship with female androgyny (Jo Polniaczek, Samantha Kanisky, Liz Lemon to name a few).

wow the stupidity in this tread. trump is eroding all our values and these queens think one sitcom is going to wipe out all gayness in the country.

Karen is a deplorable.

R471 Jo Polniaczek and Samantha Kanisky were merely pre-pubescent tomboys.

I can understand you Marys getting your panties in a wad over a degayed TV character, but why all the hate on Will & Grace? I love that show! So many great gay characters over the years!

Dissing QVC and Scientology. W&G is back!

Funny episode

This show has really bounced back. Having said that-they still dont know what to do with Karen anymore.

I thought Jack and Karen with Staten Island Fairy Drew were much funnier than the QVC she-nanigan. Karen's flashback didn't really work that well for me mostly because I only vaguely remember her background/mom from the original series. I will have to rewatch later while skipping the W&G stuff.

And another Riverdale mention from Jack. Is it really that popular with the gays?

I thought it was terrible. Kinda over it. Too many weak episodes. I don't see it lasting beyond one more season. I didn't even finish it. Lost interest. Turned it off. I see what some people mean now. The gay jokes making fun of gay guys. So lame, dated, and offensive.

(rolling eyes at R481)

R482 good for you

Loved the droll stage manager.

I'm surprised they are not bringing in some odd maid replacements as foils for Karen.

It seems like they had experimented with that one woman and then Grace had that temporary assistant / intern / whatever - and then they've mysteriously disappeared.

I mean those types of episodes could write themselves - Karen hires a gay maid who then develops a rivalry with Jack over Karen.

Happens to the best of us R486.

Loved the flashbacks with both characters overdubbed by adult Karen’s voice! I do kind of wish Jack’s affair with the cop had gone on for a couple of more episodes because the exchanges with the clueless wife were hilarious.

R484 That droll stage manager was Doris from Looking, drove me nuts until I figured out why I remembered her from another show. Anyone else get a bit of a les-ping from her character even though she has a “husband”?

R490 No wonder her voice sounded familiar! Wish they gave her less clunky lines. It felt like she and Will were just tossing punch lines at each other. Did laugh at Will's "my penis didn't do anything to hurt you."

i is unable to watch it cause debra messing gives me

the dry heaves....her face/voice make me run to toilet and regurgitate.

R492—So what's up, Chuck?

Fucking Olympics.

So far the only episode I even got a little chuckle out of was the QVC one.

I can't stand the way network execs program and schedule shows. They take a reboot like W&G give it a good start, send it away for weeks on end while they showcase NFL football, bring it back but schedule it on another night and now take it off for the Olympics. They pull this shit all the time on all of the major networks and the end result is these shows lose steam as viewers lose interest.

Bloopers from this season.

I don't like how Deb Messing thyroid neck looks. She isn't funny. Her hair is purplish red.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Fucking Human Rights Campaign logo has to make it into practically every scene.

"That's the same smouldering look Lindsey Graham gives John McCain."

I'm talking to myself here. Where is everyone?

R501 DL is over WnG.

Grace hits the trifecta.

I’m pleasantly surprised at the jokes they can get away with nowadays on network tv . Dick-tation? Magna came loudly?

The network breaks are continually a problem. They hurt all shows.

Rough episode. Although I did appreciate those two latino studs going at it. This would never have happened during the original run, at least not in such a raunchy way.

Karen's shade about Will's juice story was subtle and nasty at the same time. I want more of that kind of humour. And her gay twinning joke was on point as well.

Funny ep tonight. Will was checking out his ex Michael's Instagram and they both attended Ellen's baby shower. JLo appeared and we're seeing more of the old Karen in tonight's ep.

I thought this one was funny as well. And I always did want to see Jack playing a corpse ever since his Six Feet Under joke back in the day.

Grace's baby shower plot was uncomfortable to watch as I'm also seeing people around me popping up kids left and right. But I love when a sitcom makes me uncomfortable and it's not due to a bad joke.

Ugh. I always forget when this is on.

It's not 1987 you know. You could set your DVR or watch it on demand.

R509, NBC.com has all 9 seasons available to watch. This ep is available to watch now.

who played Michael those many years ago?

r512 Chris Potter.

Why is this thread F&F'd? I never saw Will & Grace the first time round, but I'm enjoying the new episodes.

r514 Some (one person?) insist it's a gay minstrel show and can't bear others even having a discussion about it.

R512, the unbelievably hot and solid actor Chris Potter, who was Michael's boyfriend on the first season of Queer as Folk; I'm hoping they get him back.

I thought it was odd they married off Vince.

(Seriously, do Ben and Lila just not exist in the future?)

[quote]Seriously, do Ben and Lila just not exist in the future?

r516 They do not. The showrunners have said many times now that the events of the finale had to be removed from canon and that was the price of this revival being possible in the first place. I for one am totally fine with that as (strict) continuity is not what I watch sitcoms for. And that finale was pretty weak anyway, in my opinion.

R517; I'm mixed on the finale. Hated it the first time I saw it. It made ZERO sense that W&G would stop hanging out ESPECIALLY when they each had a kid around the same age. We saw in last night's episode how parents who have kids stick together.

It wasn't great having Karen be poor either!

But Lila wasn't just in finale; Grace was preggers for several episodes leading up to it.

It's true about continuity not being as necessary in comedy as in drama.

I was happy with the reboot...DL hates that show but DL quotes are literally in the fucking script verbatim. And I say "literally" to those who watched the last episode with the 2 millennials on the sofa teaching will what a "deep like" is (which I never knew either).

R516 I think Cheyenne Jackson is the new Michael

I think that Deb Messing is turning out to be the comedic standout of this re-boot. More than any of them, she seems to be having a great time...and I think she's hilarious.

Friend Ellen is a major cunt in the reboot.

Wasn’t she always, tho? I mostly vaguely remember her from “Game Night” and the restaurant episode where Karen was cruising the owner played by Anthony LaPaglia.

r521 Agreed, Debra's having fun and really going for it.

r522 You're being too generous; she was always a massive bitch.

R521, even I agree with you about Debra.

She certainly deserves an Emmy nod for this season.

R523, the restaurant owner was played by Andy Garcia.

Thanks, I should have checked IMDB before posting. I always confuse those two names.

Will and Michael...

Vanessa Bayer as a baker who refuses to make a MAGA cake for Karen.

Another RIVERDALE reference! Do they have one in EVERY episode?!?

I'm soooo bummed out that Chris Potter isn't back as the original Michael.

He'd only been in ONE episode and wasn't mentioned THAT often so Cheyenne could have played a totally new character.

Potter's such a freaking stud and also has that irresistible combination of masculine charm and kindness that gets me every time.

R530 Was it Jack? Jack is obsessed with Riverdale!

Yeah, I’d prefer Potter return as well.

Why the fuck is Karen ordering a cake in a bakery when she has a pastry chef?

One who will sex her too!

Weak episode.

More bastardizing of characters. Michael may have only been in one episode but I didn't get the impression he was a deadbeat user.

Another Pence is gay joke.

IMAGAY!!!

Brilliant.

I thought the opening was one of the wittiest ever, but the rest of the episode was pretty weak. I just cannot with false equivalency; sexual orientation you're born with and political belief is acquired and thus subject to constant change. Case closed.

OMG watching on west coast here; this was all horrible.

Why bother to waste Cheyenne and the character of Michael with this ridiculous, he's only using you for your money?

I'll rewatch the Potter episode, but he was hiring Grace to redo his apartment. No mention ever of any money problems.

Will and Michael broke up because Will was fussy and controlling, something he worked on and conquered.

Most disappointing episode ever.

Potter is looking a bit rough these days and I can understand the recasting.

Who's to say he wanted to come back anyway?

He may have turned them down for all we know.

All possible, R541.

But last night's show was a dud all around. Weak premise; odd recast (when almost everyone else who came back this season, Ellen, Beverly Leslie, Leo were all played by originals).

Jack is the last one to criticize someone using Will for money, and from what little we know about Michael from that one episode he didn't appear to be a user.

They broke up over Will's controlling issues which were explored early on in the show.

[quote]Vanessa Bayer as a baker who refuses to make a MAGA cake for Karen.

That reminded me of the SNL Christian movie parody sketch where she played a baker who refuses to make a gay wedding cake.

Renewed for season 11!

And they've yet to start on season 10.

The Datalounge haters will go into meltdown.

Lol, R544. I love this show, always have, but they have to stop burning bridges with returning characters and they need to write more believable set-ups (and settings) for their political banter.

That bakery shop setting was done specifically to prompt a discuss of recent events in the news but all I kept thinking was how obvious they were being and why is Karen fighting for a cake to be made in a bakery when she could have easily had the cake baked at home by her pastry chef.

a line or two about why pastry chef couldn't be there or wasn't avail would have made sense to move the action to the bakery; good point, R545

What possible excuse did they give for skipping an episode again this week?

I just noticed that, R537. It looks like they're pimping Chicago Fire in order to go up against their new competition at ABC Stage 19, another Shonda Rhimes shitfest. Fire on fire drama. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Dammit, I meant R547.

Alan Arkin has magically morphed into Robert Klein.

The writers revisit the newly out gay rejection: Just like Will was crushed by Barry, Jack is rejected by pocket gay cop when he invites him to move in with him.

Smitty is now employed at Karen's manse.

Alec Baldwin is back.

Sara Rue is back. Gina Davis, however, is not.

Is MM just not invested?

God, this was boring. You have Malcolm back with Karen and you focus on that boring Will & Grace in Schenectady storyline??

Having them sing "All I Do Is Dream of You" (from Singin' in the Rain) was a nice tribute to Debbie. Of course she would have a portrait of herself in her dining room. Is Martin really going to move in with Will & Grace?

R551 She seems off in some shows.

I didn’t like this episode other than Malcolm matching the drapes.

Jack's voice confuses me. Has he finally hit puberty?

I loved seeing Smitty back; Sara Rue looks better now than she did 20 years ago.

maybe Grace's dad can date Will's mom.

Really enjoyed this one. Everyone gets a worthy plot this time around. W&G's part is more serious but packed with enough jokes to keep it from getting too dreary, while K&J's is played as pure silliness though it might have relationship repercussion.

Do they ever think of telling Sean Hayes to tone down the hysterics?

This episode is just stupid. Jack is becoming stupider.

The ratings reflect it apparently - down to .9 in the demo for last night.

R561, in fairness, every shows were down due to holiday.

R553—Thanks for pointing out the significance of the "All I Do Is Dream Of You" number. It had gone completely by me and I missed it entirely.

R559 Jack was the best part.... and the situation is realistic, pocket former closet gay wanting to be slutty gay now that he's out.

Yup. I never date the "newly out" because of the "Kid in a candy store" phenomenon. At least not date seriously.

I just chuckled thinking of the piano crushing the poor robot mime, and Jack and bf being so callous/oblivious about it. Karen being fooled by Malcolm's "camouflage" was also funny but that got too repetitive. I also liked Grace and her sisters... though I think some of the dialogue/jokes were a bit forced.

Outtake...

[quote]Thanks for pointing out the significance of the "All I Do Is Dream Of You" number. It had gone completely by me and I missed it entirely.

They even echoed the original choreography

[quote]maybe Grace's dad can date Will's mom.

Have you seen the promo for this week’s episode? OMG !

[quote] Will & Grace 9x16 "It's A Family Affair" Season 9 Episode 16 Promo (Season Finale) - Grace's (Debra Messing) father and Will's (Eric McCormack) mother end up making a surprising and upsetting connection. Jack (Sean Hayes) rebounds from his breakup with a new love. Karen (Megan Mullally) must decide between her husband and her lover. Robert Klein, Blythe Danner, Alec Baldwin and Brian Jordan Alvarez guest star.

So Jack and Pocket Gay Cop did break up?! Hopefully, it's only temporary.

I thought Stan was dead.

Mildred, keep up with the story, please! ^

Good lord, Stan ended up being alive back during the original run of the series. He faked his death and that plotline involved Alec Baldwin. Please do keep up.

What a raunchy episode and they ended it on a perfect note as we're all asking ourselves what those changes Will mentioned are going to end up being when they return.

I was excited to see BJA and then he broke out that accent. I'm still acclimating to it but it feels like a throwback to the first season, and not in a good way.

Can't stand Jack's new boyfriend. I could not understand 90% of what he said with that thick accent. The character is not funny and not likeable. Just a rude, shallow asshole. Not sure where the "comedy" is there. And he makes Jack look like he has arrested development. Which, yes, is part of the character BUT...he is now in his 40's and even within the confines of a sitcom should evolve a bit. He DID seem to be wiser (the episode where he has a grandson) during the first part of the re-boot, as did all the characters. The writing was sharper. Interesting to see that Alec Baldwin's character likes a finger up his ass!

Big twist with Grace's dad and Will's mom ending up bed together. Didn't see that coming.

Alec Baldwin looks pretty good.

I HATED the character of Jack’s boyfriend. Completely ruined the episode. R575 nailed it.

I think Brian might have been hired based on this sketch where he does a Colombian accent. Too bad because he's so much better at other forms of comedy.

The whole thing just felt so... retrograde to me; I thought we were beyond making (non-American) accents the punchline in 2018.

The camera shot during most of Jack's phone call was hilariously framed, his face surrounded by all those tight swim trunks/speedos. Bet some "family values" group is getting all worried, thinking of the children.

Even Will's shirt was a lot snugger than usual.

Will's shirt looked like it was moulded directly onto his body.

And yeah, some of that underwear on the beach was outrageous. However, I did notice they didn't allow Brian to have any bulge. So they're still holding back a bit.

Another Pence joke. Writers are on here for sure.

And Meryl Streep on Big Little Lies season 2.

That was a hilarious episode... Love Jack's bitchy quips, like "They did not leave you. They ran away." Per usual, J&K are funnier than W&G. Megan and Alec really made that "sex" scene both funny and cringe-worthy. Smithy has come a long way from a bit character. The writing is also tighter in this episode in pulling all the characters and their plots together. Everyone knows Will and Grace have a chronic "incestuous" problem from season one, and this season pushed down back together again even tighter than before, and this episode spells out the problem once again with the added punch line that they could be (step) brother and sister soon.

I know it's a silly farce but I just can't even care a little bit about Stan. He's here, he's dead, whatever, we never see him.

Jack's new BF is annoying and so is Jack.

I just can't with Karen being political. I realize she was always a 1 percenter but the fun of Karen was that she was an equal opportunity drunken bitch with a heart of gold. She fucked it all, drank it all and snorted it all. Her support of Trump makes her look mean, and deliberately mean. Old Karen wouldn't have given two fucks.

Um. Karen has ALWAYS been mean.

Yes, but the Trump thing is mean in a really deliberate, focused way.

I wouldn't call Karen 1.0 "mean" so much as "don't give a fuck, says whatever comes to her mind."

I know what r586 means. The episode about the MAGA cake is what comes to mind. The writers made Karen to be proactively cruel in a way that was not funny (and she is usually hilarious). There was an edge to the character in that episode, a "harder edged" Karen that was not appealing. In any other episode she would have said something to the effect of "Oh, honey, I don't care. I don't think ANYONE should have cake unless they are celebrating ten years of AA. Here's to the auto club!" Or something silly and funny.

Sean wants you to know Season 2 is coming!

5 Emmy noms!