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I love the new Will & Grace!

I feared lightning wouldn't strike twice, but I was wrong. Last night's episode when Jack finds out he is a grandfather is a true gem. And they also managed to slap down the charade that is reparative therapy. I'm still hoping they bring back the old bartender who always told Karen sad stories that made her laugh. I'm also looking forward to Beverley Leslie returning to the re-boot.

by W&G Loverreply 317Last Thursday at 2:02 PM

It was a good episode: timely, topical, pretty funny.

by W&G Loverreply 110/20/2017


by W&G Loverreply 210/20/2017

Any news about how much the four are making per episode?

by W&G Loverreply 310/20/2017

I enjoyed the recent episode but cringed when they introduced the "conversion" therapy plot and the religious freedom angle. Seems like too heavy a social issue for a sitcom. Whatever, I hope people see how awful and destructive both of them are.

by W&G Loverreply 410/20/2017

Beverly Leslie was killed off in the last series. Jack got all of his money. But, they did bring Karen's husband back from the dead, so they might be able to resurrect Beverly also.

by W&G Loverreply 510/20/2017

I hope the next episodes are not as preachy as this one. The best moments of W&G is when they read the shit out of one another (love Jack's 'Will's just a fat lawyer' line)

by W&G Loverreply 610/20/2017

The producers explicitly said that they are wiping off the original finale from the canon. So Karen never got divorced, Grace's baby does not exist, Vince and Will never got married and have her baby, etc etc.

So technically BL is alive and well in the current season.

by W&G Loverreply 710/20/2017

They said when they did the reboot that the conclusion episode of the last series never happened, so Beverly Leslie didn't get blown off the balcony in this revamped series.

by W&G Loverreply 810/20/2017

Leslie Jordan is listed in the cast for episode five. Schedule air date Oct. 26.

by W&G Loverreply 910/20/2017

Did anyone else notice the framed photo of Mike Pence in the camp scenes?

by W&G Loverreply 1010/20/2017

I thought the whole season was already in the can and then they do the paper towel joke. So they basically need two weeks to produce and air a simple office scene that doesn't involve guest stars? I bet they edit this stuff until the last possible day.

by W&G Loverreply 1110/20/2017

I think the first episodes seem rushed like they thought they would only get 8 episodes.

by W&G Loverreply 1210/20/2017

I prefer them being preachy and topical. I'll take any laugh I can get in this climate.

by W&G Loverreply 1310/20/2017

And I like my drinks peachy and tropical.

by W&G Loverreply 1410/20/2017

If Leslie is on next week, with Minnie(?), can the Beaverhausen be far behind?

by W&G Loverreply 1510/22/2017

Was it about conversion therapy re gay or "conversion therapy" re trans (or did they try to put them together and say LGBT?)

by W&G Loverreply 1610/22/2017

I love the kiss between McCormack and Rannells. I hope the show is saltier and sexier this go-round.

by W&G Loverreply 1710/22/2017

Can you imagine the studio audience's eruption when Beverly Leslie enters his scene?

As good as when he ran into Karen in the country club:

"Why Karen Walker -- I thought I smelled gin and regret."

by W&G Loverreply 1810/22/2017

I wonder if Beverly and Benji are still together ... or if he's remarried after the demise of Crystal.

by W&G Loverreply 1910/22/2017

R18 Yes, I hope they erupt with cheers as well. Just the thought of the audience clapping for Leslie Jordan makes me feel good for some reason.

by W&G Loverreply 2010/22/2017

The Grandoa episode was the best so far of the reboot. The jokes and performances don't seem as forced and awkward as the first few episodes. The plot was funny too.

Andrew Rannells is writing his autobiography.

by W&G Loverreply 2110/22/2017

Beverly Leslie. Is he for the gay actors community what Viola Davis is for the African American actress community? Love that guy. He should get an Emmy just for showing up somewhere and lighten up the mood.

by W&G Loverreply 2210/22/2017

He played Skeeter's newspaper editor in The Help.

by W&G Loverreply 2310/22/2017

The show is funny. The writing is some of the best on television. And the cast delivers. I watch so much news. I'm addicted to MSNBC. However, on Thursday night at 9, I stop everything and tune into Will & Grace. It's great. Very witty at times, laugh out loud other times. I hope it's renewed for next season.

by W&G Loverreply 2410/22/2017

R24 It was renewed for a second season even before it premiered!

by W&G Loverreply 2510/22/2017

Will this be the new thread? The other hit 600 and is closed.

by W&G Loverreply 2610/22/2017

[R26] Yes this seems to be the new thread.

by W&G Loverreply 2710/22/2017

This was posted in another W&G thread so let's post it here as well.

by W&G Loverreply 2810/22/2017

There was ALREADY a second thread. I'll never understand why people who start new threads don't check first to find out if there are identical threads extant. It would make more sense to go to the existing thread before using this redundant one. To paraphrase Ethel Mertz, ONE THREAD IS SUFFICIENT.

The link is posted blew. Enjoy.

by W&G Loverreply 2910/22/2017

r29, "I'm NOT anal retentive EITHER!!!!!!!"

by W&G Loverreply 3010/22/2017

Leslie Jordan abruptly left the cast of Warhol Capote at the ART in Cambridge, MA when he got the call from Will and Grace.

by W&G Loverreply 3110/22/2017

This Thursday should be a good one. Leslie and Karen are hysterical.

By the way, I wish they would have Cher back.

by W&G Loverreply 3210/22/2017

This thread is newer and less redundant. Let's use it.

by W&G Loverreply 3310/22/2017

R31, wouldn't you? Shooting a network sitcom in LA or doing some play in Mass.

by W&G Loverreply 3410/22/2017

OP is mentally retarded, easily satisfied.

by W&G Loverreply 3510/22/2017

I watched the first episode and couldn't get through it. I thought that the Trump administration was a horrible subject to center the episode around and I wrote the revival series off as lost.

Luckily I'd already set a OnePass on my TiVo and I watched the other three episodes tonight. I don't think I could be happier that the series is back. Yes, it still has some of the typical sitcom cringe that it always has, but I genuinely feel that we really needed this Especially the story lines on how the (majority of) millennial's have it so good that they don't realize what GenX went through to make it easier for for them and how the two generations have a hard time relating to each other over this. And the subject of conservative parents who want to fix their kids who aren't broken.

Minus two stars for the use of Google Home however. Google has always easily given up users information. Amazon Alexa seems to be the way to go for greater privacy in voice assistants.

by W&G Loverreply 3610/22/2017

I'm guessing these first 4-5 episodes of the reboot were filmed under the assumption that it would be a one-off season, based on the success of the pre-election special, and it kind of shows: it is trying to ride the wave of topical storylines and jokes while at the same providing some kind of closure in terms of what happened to Leo, Elliot, etc, in those 10 years. It's not bad but the writing is just not as witty or well-paced like in the original and it's the core cast who are doing the best they can with it. I'm hoping that, now that the show has been renewed for another season, the writing will improve. It's not bad but when you see one of the original episodes in reruns, you realize how much better it could be, given the talent involved.

by W&G Loverreply 3710/22/2017

I lost it when Sue used the shock collar on Rannels when he was kissing Will. So funny!

by W&G Loverreply 3810/22/2017

FWIW the Google Home mentions were product placement, as per the end credits.

by W&G Loverreply 3910/22/2017

This is my show!

by W&G Loverreply 4010/22/2017

R37, wasn't the show renewed for the second season way before it even premiered? And judging by Karen throwing the paper towel roll these are filmed and edited fast.

by W&G Loverreply 4110/23/2017

[quote] I thought the whole season was already in the can and then they do the paper towel joke.

They only started taping a couple of weeks before the season premiere, so it's still ongoing. I believe that they will be taping at least through November or early December.

[quote] I'm guessing these first 4-5 episodes of the reboot were filmed under the assumption that it would be a one-off season

Then you'd be guessing wrong. They were renewed for a second season and additional episodes ordered for the first season before the show even aired.

by W&G Loverreply 4210/23/2017

The Trump jokes are getting old. I couldn’t get through the first episode. Trying too hard.

by W&G Loverreply 4310/23/2017

The Trump jokes have been spot on. I can definitely imagine why you aren't liking them, R43.

by W&G Loverreply 4410/23/2017

[quote] They were renewed for a second season and additional episodes ordered for the first season before the show even aired.

OK. But they must have filmed a handful episodes before the renewal announcement. I recall that at least first 3 episodes were screened to the critics well in advance.

by W&G Loverreply 4510/23/2017

No R45. The first episode taping was on August 9th and NBC renewed for a second season on August 3rd. The new series premiered on September 28th.

by W&G Loverreply 4610/23/2017

I don't know if this has been posted already, but here are the ratings for the most recent episode. It held steady at 6.51 million with 1.7/6 rating/share among the 18-49 demo.

Can someone in the US please tell us whether these figures are considered good, bad, or just okay?

by W&G Loverreply 4710/24/2017

Hi, the final numbers went up to 6.69 million viewers (still 1.7 demo). It was the highest rated scripted show of the night (Greys Anatomy was not on that week). It is a very good number which usually almost doubles once they add Live+7 ratings.

by W&G Loverreply 4810/24/2017

They should have named the reboot "Jack and Karen" since as in most sitcoms, the second bananas are much funnier than the stars. "Prissy and Neurotic" could have been another option.

by W&G Loverreply 4910/24/2017

Or focus on Grace and Karen and call it "My Damn Secretary".

by W&G Loverreply 5010/24/2017

R49, like with the original W&G Jack and Karen are great as part of the ensemble. All these characters work together well because they are so different. Too much Jack and Karen would be boring fairly fast.

by W&G Loverreply 5110/24/2017

For every new episode Sean Hayes seems to age an additional 10 yrs. Late onset Progeria? Here's a photo of Hayes, taken during the season 9 finale.

by W&G Loverreply 5210/24/2017

Sling TV has an NBC on-demand channel that features the new season of Will and Grace as well as all 8 previous seasons. I knew rhat Hulu had that, but was pleasantly surprised that Sling has all the episodes, too.

by W&G Loverreply 5310/24/2017

I stopped at episode 3 - thought it was really bad

i loved the original series

Can't go home again

by W&G Loverreply 5410/24/2017

[quote] The first episode taping was on August 9th and NBC renewed for a second season on August 3rd. The new series premiered on September 28th.

Well, there's the explanation - the scripts have been rushed.

by W&G Loverreply 5510/24/2017

The reboot is not funny at all.

by W&G Loverreply 5610/24/2017

Jack makes me hard.

by W&G Loverreply 5710/24/2017

[quote]The reboot is not funny at all.

I disagree. I've loved all episodes except the third one. I've actually been surprised how much the show has made me laugh this time around.

by W&G Loverreply 5810/24/2017

DL fave Sylvia {who outed Sam Heughan on Twitter last Sunday} has some harsh words for Anthony Ramos and his Will and Grace character:

by W&G Loverreply 5910/26/2017

always cremate your relatives. words of wisdom from Leslie

by W&G Loverreply 6010/26/2017

Not a bad episode, but they really don't know what to do with Sean Hayes, do they?

by W&G Loverreply 6110/26/2017

The new Benji made my pants feel funny.

by W&G Loverreply 6210/26/2017

Benjy made me drip precum.

by W&G Loverreply 6310/27/2017

Leslie Jordan was the true highpoint of the latest episode. The other stuff (including Max Greenfield)? Meh (like episode three which, so far I like the least of what has aired so for of the new season).

Karen: Wait a minute! Crystal's already dead. I went to her funeral! You and the original Benji had their first official dance!

Beverly: The first shovel of dirt on the coffin revived her. And I learned a valuable lesson. Appreciate every day of your life and when it comes to your loved ones Cremate. Always cremate!

by W&G Loverreply 6410/27/2017

I thought this one was just okay. I don't know what Grace's assistant is supposed to be doing. He's just kind of there and pops up sporadically. And who the hell is that black guy working with Jack? Also, one thing I noticed is that the lines are sometimes delivered so rapid fire I can't really understand what was just said. Nowhere near as good as last weeks.

by W&G Loverreply 6510/27/2017

"Labia reconstruction."

by W&G Loverreply 6610/27/2017

Last night was great!

by W&G Loverreply 6710/27/2017

Apparently they're able to add in last-minute topical jokes because the B or C storylines are being filmed separately. For example, if you'd gone to the taping of last nights show, which probably would have been in mid-September, you wouldn't have seen Karen's scenes with Beverly Leslie at all. Those were taped separately in the last couple weeks. Speculation is that it has to do with Megan Mullally's schedule. She's been relegated to B or C stories which have been filming separately, often weeks after the rest of the episodes are filmed, which is also how they managed to get the paper towel reference into another storyline for her so quickly.

by W&G Loverreply 6810/27/2017

I didn't care for the first 2 but now the show feels comfortable like it never left and I record every week and slip into it like an old pair of slippers that is still my favorite and very comfortable.

Now the new Roseanne show I hope fails miserably. She is a lunatic and a right win freak and can't even remember what it was like to be poor. Fuck her. Besides the W&G actors all still look good. WTF can look at what the Roseanne actors look like now, especially Dan. He looks like he really did die and dug him up.

by W&G Loverreply 6910/27/2017

good eppy

by W&G Loverreply 7010/27/2017

What does everyone think of Will going into business with Grace instead of being a lawyer or maybe he will be a lawyer for Grace's company but now they will be together at work and at home, too much together???

by W&G Loverreply 7110/27/2017

Will's storyline was totally chopped to pieces for Grace's, Jack's and Karen's separate plots! Karen's got the A-plot, Jack the B-plot, Grace the C-plot, and Will's senior partner dilemma was an afterthought D-plot, even though his big decision affects the future direction of the show. The Will and Grace storyline should have been in a separate episode where it could get full development. I wanted to see Will and Eli's date! Dammit! What a waste of Max. Still Beverly Leslie totally saved this episode from the trash bin... Jack's fan and Karen jacket also were amusing as sight gags.

by W&G Loverreply 7210/27/2017

Episode 3 was a more "touching" remake of the Neil Patrick Harris degaying episode.

Then episode 4 does a second version of the Miguel Ferrer hotel baron who wants Grace to deliver Will's bod to sweeten the redecorating contract.

Where do they go with Episode 5? Sharon Stone re-psychoanalyzing Will?

by W&G Loverreply 7310/27/2017

I thought Episode 3 was Harry Connick.

by W&G Loverreply 7410/27/2017

Yes correction noted.

3 the ex husband., 4 Grandpa Jack, 5 the last episode. Two recycled plots in a row.

Next week is 6.

by W&G Loverreply 7510/27/2017

I agree that the new recurring characters are the only weak links in the show (Grace’s employee and Jack’s coworker.). They add nothing to the show.

by W&G Loverreply 7610/27/2017

Well, the reboot is trying to be inclusive and have recurring minority characters (in principle, nothing wrong with that) but they are basically written as useless props so that an occasional political joke can be built around them.

by W&G Loverreply 7710/27/2017

Hilarious episode with Leslie.

This show came back at the perfect moment in time.

by W&G Loverreply 7810/27/2017

I just read an episode that said this Beverly Leslie episode was filmed on Oct 10, literally the day after the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, and quickly gave Karen the Weinstein line to replace whatever had been there. I love that they’re throwing in such up to the minute jokes.

by W&G Loverreply 7910/27/2017

I loved Max Greenfield as Karen’s hot new boss. And since Will is going into business with her, I hope that means we will get a return of Max and a hot Greenfield-McCormack kiss.

by W&G Loverreply 8010/27/2017

I wonder if Blythe Danner will return as Will’s mom?

by W&G Loverreply 8110/27/2017

[quote]It's not bad but the writing is just not as witty or well-paced like in the original

Oh, I think it’s the equal, at least, of the original. I’m thoroughly enjoying it,

by W&G Loverreply 8210/27/2017

Agree that episodes 3 and 5 have been the worst. It seems like all the actors abilities have improved except Deb Messing. Her delivery seems outdated and like she is trying way too hard to be funny because she’s not. All the storylines with Grace are 😴. We need more Karen commenting on Grace’s fashion, that is the only time scenes with Grace are funny.

by W&G Loverreply 8310/27/2017

R83 I thought the Leo episode (Ep 3) was good, very classic W&G pacing, too. I enjoyed that. The jokes were corny, but the scenes were allowed to develop. Episode 5, to me, was all over the place, Beverly Leslie was great but Will's plot got so shortened it was like he had a flashback of the boardroom meeting, and boom, the end of his date with Eli. WTF. And before you know it, Will just threw away his 20+ years career to work with Grace. Double WTF. I hated the pacing in this sub plot and don't see the point of introducing a working relationship for W&G.

by W&G Loverreply 8410/27/2017

Sorry, R68 that doesn't make sense. Various cast members post backstage videos on their FB pages on filming days and Megan is always in them. Additionally, the way they have always worked on this show is they do 2 takes for every scene, with rewrites in between the first and second takes. And they are still shooting this season, so it's very easy to stay topical. Additionally, it is always possible that they will do a "reshoot" of a scene from a previous episode on filming day to be cut into the episode prior to airing.

by W&G Loverreply 8510/28/2017

Agree with r84 - the pacing was off with the W/G plot line which made the episode seem rushed.

I did enjoy Jack’s scene with the co-worker. Their pondering whether ‘Mexican Stand-off’ was racist or not was the funniest moment of the episode, IMO.

by W&G Loverreply 8610/28/2017

Debra Messing is a genius comic actor. A Lucille Ball of the 21st century.

by W&G Loverreply 8710/28/2017

I still adore Jack! Sean has a great ass. He's like every guy I've fucked. He's looking good too! I'd do him :sigh:

by W&G Loverreply 8810/28/2017

I thought this episode was poorly written and paced, reminding me of the worst of the original series.

by W&G Loverreply 8910/28/2017

r81, they should, since most of the other parents are now dead. RIP Sydney, Debbie, and Suzanne.

BTW, Casting, Will is supposed to be a WASP. Sydney Pollack as his father, no sir. This may have worked casting Debbie Reynolds as a Jewish mother, but it's very difficult to cast a Jewish actor as a non-Jew. It rarely works. (See "The Golden Girls" for two examples.)

by W&G Loverreply 9010/28/2017

They do a dress rehearsal with audience, which is filmed, and a nighttime taping with audience which is also filmed. After the filming and the audience is gone, they do pickups and closeups that they didn’t get in the main filming.

The episode with Karen’s joke about Weinstein was filmed on Oct 10 (per Hollywood Reporter article), which was a couple of days after the scandal broke. She originally had a different punchline there, and they rewrote it to put in the Weinstein bit.

The idea that she would do things later because of her schedule (what schedule? She was the one who wanted the revival more than anyone) is ridiculous. That’s not how multicam shows are done when they’re filmed with an audience.

by W&G Loverreply 9110/28/2017

[quote]Where do they go with Episode 5? Sharon Stone re-psychoanalyzing Will?

Glenn Close as Annie Leibovitz.

by W&G Loverreply 9210/28/2017

R87=Deb Messing

by W&G Loverreply 9310/28/2017

[quote]they should, since most of the other parents are now dead. RIP Sydney, Debbie, and Suzanne.

Hey! I'm still here!

by W&G Loverreply 9410/28/2017

R87 I know she has her fans. But to me she’s a 21st century actress doing an imitation of what was funny in the 1950s. In the first episode, her big “jokes” were both spit takes and not really well timed ones either. That just doesn’t feel funny or relevant anymore. It’s like the Three Stooges poking each other in the eye. Dumb.

by W&G Loverreply 9510/28/2017

R91 is correct. I was at a W&G taping on Sept 6. That taping was probably the 50th sitcom taping I've attended starting in 1977. The writers are always right there on the floor rewriting. The script is never locked so it's easy to add in current events as they happen. In general sitcoms are about 3 weeks ahead of the airing schedule, however, W&G seems to be taking hiatus weeks every few episodes per the cast members social media. Personally I'd rather they left out the Trump/Weinstein/paper towel jokes. It will date the show and make it unwatchable in 10 years.

by W&G Loverreply 9610/28/2017

R94 YESSS! Bring back Veronica as Jacks mom. God they really knocked the casting of all the moms out of the park.

by W&G Loverreply 9710/28/2017 provides the studio audience for the show and for that god awful aftershow on YT. It's easy to follow the shooting schedule on the site.

by W&G Loverreply 9810/28/2017

"You were crying so much you looked like Jeff Sessions watching black people vote!"

by W&G Loverreply 9910/28/2017

Love the revival, but cut back the side stories with "wacky" side characters and have the whole cast interact more. That's what we want to see and that's what works.

by W&G Loverreply 10010/28/2017

Do any of you know anything about the office boy? In the first episode his scene made no sense but apparently there's a deleted scene on YT of Karen sexually harassing him that put that scene into context. Since he has been used as little more than an extra and he just doesn't work. Why was he cast? Why are they keeping him? What were they trying to do with that character? It's the weakest link in the show and now that Will will be working with Grace he needs to go.

by W&G Loverreply 10110/28/2017

Some of you can hate Debra Messing all you want, but she is one funny bitch. I love Karen, but Grace is a friggin hoot.

by W&G Loverreply 10210/28/2017

Why does Jack now work with the brother of his original coworker? Did they fire the first actor?

by W&G Loverreply 10310/28/2017

"We had a deal you finger puppet!"

by W&G Loverreply 10410/28/2017

Jack: "What's gay, beautiful and just got rich for doing nothing?"

Will: Jared Kushner.

by W&G Loverreply 10510/28/2017

R89 I think the pacing seemed rushed because they filmed too much and the editing left important pieces out... Just like they snipped out Karen sexually harassing Tony in the premiere, the new assistant/designer, they must have cut out parts of the Will & Eli date in this episode... we only saw the end of it. This is what happens when both Jack and Karen have their own plots, and W&G's storyline gets squeezed for time.

by W&G Loverreply 10610/28/2017

Yes, there seems to be an urge to pack the episodes to keep the viewers exited instead of spreading the love and give the episodes some brief moments to set up a punchline and cover story plots, handled within one episode, in two (or more?) episodes.

by W&G Loverreply 10710/28/2017

^^^^ True dat

by W&G Loverreply 10810/28/2017

[quote] they filmed too much and the editing left important pieces out... Just like they snipped out Karen sexually harassing Tony..

Or perhaps they can see what is obvious to the viewers. The Tony character doesn't mesh with the others....

by W&G Loverreply 10910/28/2017

R107 Yes, this episode could easily be split into two episodes. This should have been a Beverly Leslie episode with both Kathy and Jack involved, and W&G in some innocuous side plot, not this huge change in career twist which deserves to be the main plot of a separate episode.

by W&G Loverreply 11010/28/2017

How many episodes were ordered for this season?

by W&G Loverreply 11110/28/2017

I loved the audience reaction to Beverly Leslie's entrance. I was surprised that Eliot got no response last week.

by W&G Loverreply 11210/28/2017

It's a short season if I remember. I can't imagine them not picking up again. It's doing well, and we really NEED this show right now.

by W&G Loverreply 11310/28/2017

R111 It was 10 then bumped up to 16 for this season. With a second/tenth season of 13 eps to come. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

by W&G Loverreply 11410/28/2017

[quote]I loved the audience reaction to Beverly Leslie's entrance. I was surprised that Eliot got no response last week.

Beverley Leslie (yes, it's "Beverley" [male form] not "Beverly" [female form]) looks basically the same. Elliot is a grown young man now. I had no idea who he was until they said his name. Beverley Leslie is a hoot and was far more memorable on the show than Elliot.

by W&G Loverreply 11510/28/2017

R115 There's a male form of Beverly? News to me.

by W&G Loverreply 11610/28/2017


by W&G Loverreply 11710/28/2017

R117 But Beverly is so appropriate in this situation.

by W&G Loverreply 11810/28/2017

The problem of squishing several plot lines into a 30-minute episode can be solved by making W&G a 60-minute program. As it is, it's a blivet—10 pounds of shit in a 9-pound container.

by W&G Loverreply 11910/28/2017

It’s fall finale airs this week. That was quick.

by W&G Loverreply 12010/31/2017

I thought someone said in this post or the other one, that it was going to be 16 episodes.

by W&G Loverreply 12110/31/2017

It's not the SEASON finale. NBC has Thursday night football starting next week.

by W&G Loverreply 12211/01/2017

Fucking sports.

by W&G Loverreply 12311/01/2017

Will & Grace was the 4th highest ranked network entertainment show in Live +7 ratings for the week of Oct. 16-22. The show increased its live rating by 94% and finished behind only This Is Us. The Good Doctor and The Big Bang Theory.

by W&G Loverreply 12411/02/2017

Val is back!

by W&G Loverreply 12511/02/2017

Its return is showing suffering from 2017-era television sitcom editing--and maybe more expensive production costs. Even in the ads-edited reruns of the original series' episodes, there's more time between commercials where the scenes were blocked, built up and filmed better. Too fast editing, dialogue delivery, and trying to keep everybody and everything as if it's still 2007. OK, maybe they need to gel again as an ensemble, where they haven't worked together on a weekly basis again in 10 years. I still take it over everything else around it on network nightly TV, I admit.

by W&G Loverreply 12611/02/2017

Rosie got a great send off. touching.

by W&G Loverreply 12711/02/2017

Megan may have just won an Emmy for tonight's show. Very touching. And SMITTY was back! Perfection!

by W&G Loverreply 12811/02/2017

I was a bit frustrated at how they were treating Rosario's sudden death, laughing it up. Then the last act happened. Well done Mrs Walker.

by W&G Loverreply 12911/02/2017

Why is Will and Grace making me sad? WHyyyyyy?????

by W&G Loverreply 13011/02/2017

Wow tonight's episode was good... it was really sad. They rarely let Karen show any emotion like that.

by W&G Loverreply 13111/02/2017

Emmy for Megan.

by W&G Loverreply 13211/02/2017

I thought that the writing and acting in tonight's episode was good, but why did they kill off the character? I realize that the actress is retired and did not want to come back to the show, but a funeral seems a little insulting. Couldn't they just have said that Rosario embezzled $3 million from Karen and ran away to somewhere exotic? Or maybe she left Karen to become a maid for someone who was richer/nicer/more famous.

by W&G Loverreply 13311/02/2017

I think a send off was nice Now the show can move on from that character, And Megan totally won herself another emmy!!

by W&G Loverreply 13411/02/2017

Shelley isn't coming back because of age and health... if it were a contract or pay issue, they could write her off in a jokey fashion, but since her retirement is final, a tribute episode for her character's death is actually not inappropriate. Besides, she doesn't seen to mind.

by W&G Loverreply 13511/02/2017

I still think the Irish maid is going to evolve into a Rosario clone.

by W&G Loverreply 13611/02/2017

Great episode and Karen's tits looked phenomenal. I don't get why the AV Club gave it C+ and they keep asking what's the motivation behind this reboot. What's the motivation behind any sitcom? To laugh, maybe? Why the hell do people get so analytical with sitcoms?!

"I heard as soon as I came." - Instant classic. Best episode so far for me.

by W&G Loverreply 13711/03/2017

Megan was incredible especially in the last five minutes.

Minnie Driver was hilarious but I wish she had her own episode instead of being lumped into the Rosario funeral. Driver has definitely found her niche with comedy; she's brilliant.

by W&G Loverreply 13811/03/2017

Agree, r136, but the way they've developed the character, it's not going to be the same kind of relationship. She doesn't have the cojones to mouth off to Karen like Rosario had.

by W&G Loverreply 13911/03/2017

[quote]Or maybe she left Karen to become a maid for someone who was richer/nicer/more famous.

Would never happen. Remember, despite their bickering they loved each other.

by W&G Loverreply 14011/03/2017

My biggest problem with the reboot is that it seems too much is crammed into an episode.

by W&G Loverreply 14111/03/2017

This was a really excellent episode. I agree, Megan gets an Emmy nod off this one.

by W&G Loverreply 14211/03/2017

Yeah, maybe that's because they thought they would only get one season. I'm sure everything will feel more spaced out next season.

by W&G Loverreply 14311/03/2017

Is it true that Shelley and Megan really did not like each other during the original run of the show?

by W&G Loverreply 14411/03/2017

We were excited to see the new episodes. But now we think the show is shit.

by W&G Loverreply 14511/03/2017

R145 Is that a royal "we" or are you speaking on behalf of a larger group of homosexuals around you?

by W&G Loverreply 14611/03/2017

I believe that r145, all by himself, is a larger group of homosexuals.

by W&G Loverreply 14711/03/2017

[quote]My biggest problem with the reboot is that it seems too much is crammed into an episode.

I agree. The rhythm still feels off and it’s not the actors. Many episodes have a rushed feeling to them.

by W&G Loverreply 14811/03/2017

r148 I agree as well. If you look closely at the editing, it is choppy and not consistent. I noticed it last night. For example, if Eric is facing a certain position in a wide or medium shot, it appears his position changes when they pull in for a closer shot or they capture him making a motion that is not consistent with the previous shot.

I'm enjoying it overall but there is something off about it. I can't quite put my finger on it.

by W&G Loverreply 14911/03/2017

Same issue in the Karen at the coffin scene. It's almost like they're trying to get better "single camera" close ups in a multi case show.

by W&G Loverreply 15011/03/2017

Just watched the latest episode. I think it was one of the best from either series. I laughed out loud several times. Megan should get the Emmy for this one alone.

by W&G Loverreply 15111/03/2017

Ah, Smitty!

by W&G Loverreply 15211/03/2017

#TVRatings Report: CBS Comedies Send Will & Grace to New Lows

by W&G Loverreply 15311/03/2017

The episode was a bit uneven at the beginning, but builds up Karen's grief until the end. Lorraine was sort of an oddball character to throw in. Her first scene was really just to reintroduce her character and her second one with Will and Grace where she came out of the bushes was more unexpected and actually funnier. The forced part was the W&G who's the boss bickering... it's not like we haven't heard similar arguments from them before. Overall, Karen and Jack did the heavy lifting in this episode, while Will and Grace did their parts in consoling Karen, Grace failing in her over the top way, and Will halfway succeeding with a much needed hug.

by W&G Loverreply 15411/03/2017

I'm genuinely loving this reboot. The cast's chemistry is still on fire after all these years. Last night's episode is definitely Emmy worthy for Megan. I genuinely teared up. Beautiful work. Loved having Minnie Driver back. She's hysterical.

by W&G Loverreply 15511/03/2017

[quote] Is it true that Shelley and Megan really did not like each other during the original run of the show?

No. They had some issues when Shelley decided to announce to the world during an Emmy pre-show telecast that Megan had just gotten married, and Megan hadn't wanted it known particularly (Shelly hadn't been invited to the wedding and was perhaps a bit miffed about that). But they made up and are still good friends.

by W&G Loverreply 15611/03/2017

Of all the reboot choices, seeing Grace turn into a genuine asshole on so many levels was disappointing.

by W&G Loverreply 15711/03/2017

Viva Megan and Minnie. Also Leslie Jordan. They’re the three MVPs.

by W&G Loverreply 15811/03/2017

Shelley Morrison's Twitter is interesting. Bitch is WOKE!

by W&G Loverreply 15911/03/2017

Deb Messing tries too hard and just isn’t naturally funny. Does she resent Megan?

by W&G Loverreply 16011/03/2017

So what were Rosario's last words? "You can have my Jello."?

by W&G Loverreply 16111/03/2017

The new maid was supposed to be in two more scenes, they cut them out. Also the beginning at the office was originally about 40 seconds longer (before Karen arrived). Jack was supposed to take out money from Wills wallet and pretend it was like withdrawing money from ATM. It was funny, too bad they cut it.

by W&G Loverreply 16211/03/2017

R162 They probably cut those to keep Lorraine's second scene in.

by W&G Loverreply 16311/03/2017

I agree something is off too. Sitcoms usually don't have deleted scenes, the scripts are pretty tight. 2 deleted scenes and an edited opening is not good, it's sloppy writing. I suspect having to tighten the show in post is throwing off the rhythm and timing.

Last night's episode was the best so far but I feel this would have been a better episode to reintroduce Beverly Leslie. Lorraine was random and I never want to hear the line "finish myself off in front of your father" again. Messing misfired in her scene with Mullally. Way over the top and frankly crossed the line and made her character straight up unlikeable.

by W&G Loverreply 16411/03/2017

NBC has probably made them speed up, cutting off a minute or so to add in another commercial.

by W&G Loverreply 16511/03/2017

Yes i think this season is shorter. I watched on Hulu and it's coming in just under 22 minutes there. The old show were longer, maybe 23/24 minutes. And going way back the old Rhodas and close to 27 minutes.

by W&G Loverreply 16611/03/2017

R165 They even had "Just Jack" in a Honda commercial. They are milking this revival for every cent! LOL

by W&G Loverreply 16711/03/2017

I wonder what happened to Karen's stepkids. Fat Mason was funny.

by W&G Loverreply 16811/03/2017

Shelley Morrison had lung cancer and breast cancer during W&G. Reading between the lines in her Tweet she probably has a terminal diagnosis at this point.

by W&G Loverreply 16911/03/2017

She's a tough old broad. She had part of a lung removed and beat lung cancer which is very rare. She's had breast cancer twice but wiki said it came back but no dates or citation. Even if she's still in remission from both she's likely quite frail from all that treatment, she was using a walker at the curtain call for the election special last year. Karen pushing Rosie in a wheelchair in the odd cameo would have been very funny but it's understandable that she doesn't want to work anymore.

by W&G Loverreply 17011/03/2017

Perfect episode. Very funny and very sad. Meghan was outstanding.

by W&G Loverreply 17111/03/2017

"I heard as soon as I came."

by W&G Loverreply 17211/03/2017

r136, the Irish maid has been on at least 2 previous episodes of W&G, as different characters. I didn't look her up on IMDB, there may have been others.

by W&G Loverreply 17311/03/2017

Mary Pat Gleason is the new maid.

She was Jane on Guiding Light, paid companion to Alexandra Spaulding.

She has a slight lisp and would say "Baroneth..." I recall. Maybe not.

by W&G Loverreply 17411/03/2017

here's Gleason as Jane; go to 38:46

by W&G Loverreply 17511/03/2017

Yet again they rip off an original run episode. Two actually, Jack running back and forth in the hospital was the same as the episode when Karen was hospitalized, and of course the funeral was an echo of Stan's.

Loved again seeing Smitty and Lorraine though.

by W&G Loverreply 17611/03/2017

I always thought Mary Pat Gleason looked exactly like Chris Farley in drag during those SNL Zagat's skits.

by W&G Loverreply 17711/03/2017

I'm sure this was mentioned upthread but....

Who saw the shower scene and immediately thought "damn, they copied this..."

by W&G Loverreply 17811/03/2017

The writing has improved but the pacing and editing is still off. Also, Sean Hayes is capable of more than just silly stunts of physical comedy, as he proved in the original run. The writers should give him more time in favor of Debra Messing who is the weakest link. Not to say that she's that bad, but her storylines have been flimsy yet stretched out way more than necessary.

by W&G Loverreply 17911/03/2017

I agree that Debra is the weak link. She looks bored, sour and as if she is acting in a different series.

by W&G Loverreply 18011/03/2017

They should just change the name from Will and Grace to The Mugging Hour.

by W&G Loverreply 18111/03/2017

[quote]I feel this would have been a better episode to reintroduce Beverly Leslie.

Oh, I don't agree at all. He would have taken it in a direction that wasn't appropriate. What they should have done is make Beverly Leslie's return the A story, and let it be its own episode. Although that would mean two Karen-centric episodes, don't know if each character has a quota.

by W&G Loverreply 18211/03/2017

r178. it was an obvious homage. Are you headless?

by W&G Loverreply 18311/03/2017

[quote]The new maid was supposed to be in two more scenes, they cut them out.

How do you know? And do you mean they were cut before taping, or that they were taped and then cut?

[quote]Sitcoms usually don't have deleted scenes, the scripts are pretty tight.

Yes they do. Editing and cutting a line, or part of a line, is common in three-camera sitcoms. Scenes that are filmed aren't usually cut - but it does happen occasionally. Usually what happens is that part of a scene or a few lines will be cut.

Taping is done scene-to-scene. A scene will be taped, and there may be a piece of it or a couple of lines that are redone (in front of the audience) before they move on to the next scene/setting. And as has been pointed out, the writers are there on the set and sometimes will change a line right there. They don't really know how the whole show will look/flow until they start editing it.

by W&G Loverreply 18411/03/2017

R184 You are agreeing with the poster you quoted. You both agree than sitcoms don't film extra scenes. You quoted the word scenes and then proceeded to answer about "a line or part of a line". Not the same thing.

For the record I've been working in television since 1976. I got my training sitting in the editing booth with Jay Sandrich and Peter Bonerz. I've never known a 3 camera sitcom to film extra scenes. W&G do seem to be doing this. I found a deleted scene on YT. I believe this is the root of their pacing issue.

by W&G Loverreply 18511/04/2017

Will Anastasia Beaverhausen ever be back?

by W&G Loverreply 18611/04/2017

r183, I think the word you mean is reductive.

by W&G Loverreply 18711/04/2017

Rosario’s pussy stinks.

by W&G Loverreply 18811/04/2017

I have a new appreciation for Debra Messing. She's very funny.

by W&G Loverreply 18911/04/2017

R189 is Deb Messing.

by W&G Loverreply 19011/04/2017

I wonder if those "deleted scenes" aren't actually "digital extras", done on purpose, that fans end up circulating around on social media, creating a buzz around the show. Or for the Blu Ray box set us elder fans still buy lol.

by W&G Loverreply 19111/04/2017

Will is WAY hotter this time around.

by W&G Loverreply 19211/04/2017

I wanna fuck Will all night long! He is sexier now.

by W&G Loverreply 19311/04/2017

Eric M. looked great starting mid-way through season 2. His hair was too long in Season one.

by W&G Loverreply 19411/04/2017

R192 No way. Will in the old series was perfect. Now you have squint to make him look half as good.

by W&G Loverreply 19511/04/2017

Eric should not be filmed in HD. Those crevasses on his face with makeup troweled all over them are distracting in close-ups.

by W&G Loverreply 19611/04/2017

I’d do Eric then/now/whenever - love those suits

by W&G Loverreply 19711/04/2017

Meghan is the one who looks almost the same as she did 11 years ago when the show ended.

by W&G Loverreply 19811/04/2017

Remember when W&G was on, the digital transition hadn't even happened... People were still watching on their big old analog tv. I guess if you stream it on low resolution on your computer screen, you can pretend it's still 2007. lol

by W&G Loverreply 19911/04/2017

one of my favorite scenes from the 'old' Will & Grace....Sandra Bernhard and the Midnight Train to Georgia

by W&G Loverreply 20011/04/2017

Who played Grace's sisters? I remember the older one was played by Geena Davis, right? The younger one I can't remember her name.

by W&G Loverreply 20111/04/2017

Sara Rue

by W&G Loverreply 20211/04/2017

R201 it's Sara Rue....she played Joyce, the younger sister

by W&G Loverreply 20311/04/2017

R202 R203 Thanks. Maybe they can the 3 sisters reunite to deal with some issues left over from Bobbi's passing. Wanna see if they really "hate" Grace! LOL

by W&G Loverreply 20411/04/2017

On the Youtube after show, the show creators hinted that the holiday special in December might be Cher-related... Would they just mention Cher or would they actually have Cher on, I wonder.

by W&G Loverreply 20511/04/2017

I think the 4 actors do better without guest stars.

by W&G Loverreply 20611/04/2017

I hate celebrity guest stars.

by W&G Loverreply 20711/04/2017

R207 Then you should have stopped watching years ago. Getting celebrity guest stars is one of this show's shticks since the first Cher episode.

by W&G Loverreply 20811/04/2017

I have an old tv so no HD for me and Megan looks the same except from a slightly saggy neck, Deb looks huge but the face is good, Eric is too thin and Sean messed up under his eyes with fillers.

The Just Jack car commercial was funnier than the episodes.

by W&G Loverreply 20911/04/2017

Debra was interviewed for one of the glossies and she admitted to having a fat freezing procedure earlier this year. So we know that doesn't work. I agree the extra weight suits her face, she just haven't learned how to dress it yet. They put her in camouflaging clothes that make her look huge.

by W&G Loverreply 21011/04/2017

When Karen said she just wanted to sit with Rosario I lost it. It was really moving.

by W&G Loverreply 21111/04/2017

W&G writer/producer David Kohan hinted that Cher is coming back for the 2017 holiday episode.

See video at: 7:46

by W&G Loverreply 21211/04/2017

Hooray for guest stars!

by W&G Loverreply 21311/04/2017

What episode is r213?

by W&G Loverreply 21411/04/2017

R214 I think it's Edie Falco and Chloe Sevigny playing ' real-estate mavens' in an episode called East Side Story

by W&G Loverreply 21511/04/2017

Now I remember -- Edie tells Will she likes to keep Chloe "hungry."

by W&G Loverreply 21611/04/2017

Was that the one where the two real estate mavens are also of the lesbionic persuasion, and Grace pretends to be attracted to one of them to get a decorating contract from them?

by W&G Loverreply 21711/04/2017

Deirdre and Monet, the Flipping Dykes

by W&G Loverreply 21811/04/2017

I enjoyed Messing in this episode. Thought she was funny.

by W&G Loverreply 21911/05/2017

I sat in the studio audience of W&G during the first season when it was kind of difficult to muster up a full studio audience for a new and very different show. I remember one scene where Jack was answering the phone and he had 5 or six written ways to answer the phone. Then they let him adlib the pickup. Some of them were quite filthy and very funny. But as to the above, they will do retakes with set written dialogue as the episode demands on the fly. This cast is able to do that.

by W&G Loverreply 22011/05/2017

Loved Jack having to dance for Karen!

by W&G Loverreply 22111/05/2017

[quote] Loved Jack having to dance for Karen!

That was the worst part of all the new episodes so far. It went so fast and was so weird and in the middle of a scene where it just didn't make much sense. People were clapping just seemed so bizarre to me.

They have Sean mincing a LOT more than he did before. Him mugging harder and bigger than he did on Original Recipe W&G isn't going to make it funnier.

by W&G Loverreply 22211/05/2017

Whoever chose to cut from Karen sitting by Rosario's casket to the other three in the doorway (with Jack saying, "That's Karen SAD!") should be fired.

by W&G Loverreply 22311/05/2017

I've got to admit that for me episode 6 was a rough one dealing with Rosario's death. That required Karen to make a huge jump from being her regular self centered, foul mouthed self to an an actual human being who cares for someone other than herself on a deeper emotional level. For me the best was Grace making it all about her when she tried to get Karen back to the funeral. Jack being terrified of Karen didn't work for me.

by W&G Loverreply 22411/05/2017

I loved her pulling the spray bottle out of the casket

by W&G Loverreply 22511/05/2017

I've been rewatching the original series and finally got to the finale last night. I hated the way they had Karen kick Stan out. Just didnt make sense to me after all she went through with him.

by W&G Loverreply 22611/05/2017

r223 agree that was unnecessary. It should have closed with just Karen and the casket.

by W&G Loverreply 22711/05/2017

Or have the last shot of Karen slowly dolly/arc around to include/reveal the 3 others SILENT way in the background looking on to her.

by W&G Loverreply 22811/05/2017

I didn't care for the way they glossed over Bobbie Adler's death. Debbie deserved more mention, maybe they have something else planned in the future.

I hope Shelley got a nice big fat gratitude check from the show for using her image.

I love Minnie Driver, her Lorraine is a great character and Minnie nails it every time.

I was also moved by Will silently wrapping his arms around Karen at the bar and her holding him in place when he tried to let her go. Nice touch.

by W&G Loverreply 22911/05/2017

R229 Of course, Shelley got a check. That's probably why they wanted to do a big tribute episode so as to include Shelley in the success of the reboot. Otherwise, they could have just dangled Rosario's unseen presence and referenced her in passing for the rest of the run.

by W&G Loverreply 23011/05/2017

Yes, thank God they were not cheap and used Shelley's pic.

by W&G Loverreply 23111/05/2017

Many years ago I heard Shelley and Kathryn Joostyn (Desperate Housewives) speak as lung cancer survivors. I'm so glad she's remained healthy for so long and I hope she got a big fat check.

by W&G Loverreply 23211/05/2017

get that money Miss Shelley

by W&G Loverreply 23311/05/2017

I hope Minnie Driver gets an Emmy nom for Guest Star. She was so good!

by W&G Loverreply 23411/05/2017

Cher sounded like a pain in the ass to work with. I wonder how difficult it was to have a different big egotistical star on every week.

by W&G Loverreply 23511/05/2017

r234 totally agree. I love that Minnie is having a career renaissance as a comedic actress (About a Boy, Speechless). She is an absolutely brilliant comedienne.

by W&G Loverreply 23611/05/2017

Overall, I give the new (continuing?) W&G an "A".

Not many other shows where you could get the whole cast back and everyone's in such good shape.

Nobody died. Nobody couldn't come back (well, except Rosario!). Nobody was too high on drugs.

I agree Jack's line at the end should have been cut.

by W&G Loverreply 23711/05/2017

Any chance Blythe Danner makes an appearance. Loved her in the original run.

by W&G Loverreply 23811/06/2017

Rosario farted alot.

by W&G Loverreply 23911/06/2017

So does Jack, who blew out his a-hole with way too much anal.

by W&G Loverreply 24011/06/2017

R240 What do you mean? Jack is obviously an exclusive top... even with Rosario.

by W&G Loverreply 24111/06/2017

The resuscitated W&G is a huge hit. Good for them. In addition to Roseanne, it will be interesting to see which other old sitcoms will be raised from the dead.

Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

by W&G Loverreply 24211/06/2017

[quote] Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

Why? It was OK but not something that amazing. Are you that nostalgic for *anything* 90s? Should I play you some Ace of Base?

Well, there's also that Kevin James sitcom which is, basically, the reboot of "King of Queens" now that Leah Remini is a co-star.

by W&G Loverreply 24311/06/2017

I'd watch a reboot of Frasier, where he's doing a live podcast/webcast version of his radio show from his schmancy condo after retiring. Roz and friends would drop by to visit and get him out of one problem and into another. Hopefully John Mahoney (Martin) would still have some scenes here and there. Might need a 3rd dog actor tho.

by W&G Loverreply 24411/06/2017

Oh, lord... time-traveling W&G!

by W&G Loverreply 24511/21/2017

[quote] Of course, the Holy Grail is Friends. Do we dare to dream?

My nipples get hard just thinking about it.

by W&G Loverreply 24611/21/2017

Looks campy and fun but also like it go horribly, horribly wrong.

Airs tonight!

by W&G Loverreply 247Last Tuesday at 5:52 AM

That promo looks terrible. I am going to watch it but I am not very happy about the theme of the episode.

by W&G Loverreply 248Last Tuesday at 7:09 AM

What is that other show in the promo? With the gay cliches in the store?

by W&G Loverreply 249Last Tuesday at 7:13 AM

I will have to turn on closed caption for this one. Those accents are horrendous.

by W&G Loverreply 250Last Tuesday at 8:56 AM

I think it looks hilarious. Can't wait.

by W&G Loverreply 251Last Tuesday at 9:23 AM

Best thing about this is that I discovered the show that comes on after it "great news" I love it and who knew Nicole Ritchie could be sort of funny.

by W&G Loverreply 252Last Tuesday at 11:03 AM

Deport Eric McCormick.

by W&G Loverreply 253Last Tuesday at 11:05 AM

Gayface is blackface.

by W&G Loverreply 254Last Tuesday at 11:05 AM

Cancel that fucking show, kick that breeder hoser out of MY country, and blacklist everyone involved with it

by W&G Loverreply 255Last Tuesday at 11:16 AM

R247: More glorifying goyism at the expense of Jews, especially when we have a fake president of German extraction with a lot of Jew-hating followers.

by W&G Loverreply 256Last Tuesday at 11:17 AM

Gays against Swill & DisGrace

by W&G Loverreply 257Last Tuesday at 11:24 AM

The fake Jew troll is at it again.

by W&G Loverreply 258Last Tuesday at 3:21 PM

And out come the antisemites, proving that Deb Messing paying lip service to Judaism had no effect on its viewers.

by W&G Loverreply 259Last Tuesday at 3:24 PM


by W&G Loverreply 260Last Tuesday at 4:04 PM

1912: Closeted Will is attracted to Jack.

by W&G Loverreply 261Last Tuesday at 4:07 PM

Was that directed at me r259? I'm not an anti-semite.

by W&G Loverreply 262Last Tuesday at 4:11 PM

Grace is doing a bad Barbra does Dolly does Fanny Brice accent. Bonus points for a huge and gaudy Mama Adler painting hanging in the parlor.

by W&G Loverreply 263Last Tuesday at 4:12 PM

God this is awful

by W&G Loverreply 264Last Tuesday at 4:14 PM

It's like they took everything I hate about being gay and made it into a sitcom. All the casual cruelty, all the shallowness, all the Eurocentrism, all the fetishization of masculinity, all the glorification of promiscuity, all the subservience to heterosexual females at the expense of gay autonomy, all the political one-sidedness. I can get that here on DL from people far less obnoxious than they. That's how much I hate that show: I would rather be on DataLounge than subject myself to it. I've honestly read funnier jokes here on DL. For a comedy that neither makes me laugh nor offers characters I care either for or about, characters being of the same sexual orientation as myself just isn't enough.

by W&G Loverreply 265Last Tuesday at 4:14 PM

Matt Damon in Downsizing couldn't even have his head shaved for the role? That nude skull cap look ridiculous and does the unnatural wrinkle when he emotes. Vain asshole.

by W&G Loverreply 266Last Tuesday at 4:17 PM

They actually brought him back after that "gay actors should stay in the closet" bullshit? Seriously, fuck this show. And I don't mean in a good way.

by W&G Loverreply 267Last Tuesday at 4:18 PM

Who, R267?

by W&G Loverreply 268Last Tuesday at 4:19 PM

R268, meet R266.

by W&G Loverreply 269Last Tuesday at 4:24 PM

In case you forgot.

by W&G Loverreply 270Last Tuesday at 4:25 PM

I am R266 and R268. I asked because I was referring to Damon in the film Downsizing. It was shown during the commercial break. He was not on tonight's W&G episode.

by W&G Loverreply 271Last Tuesday at 4:27 PM

Will and Grace (1998-2005) was a multiple-Emmy award winning sitcom about a gay man, Will (Eric McCormack), his best friend Jack (Sean Hayes), and their heterosexual female life partners, Grace (Debra Messing) and Karen (Megan Mullaley).

I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set.

Here are the top 10 things I hate about it.

1. I know that some gay men (and straight men) have feminine mannerisms, but every gay male character on the program, except for a few famous guest stars, prances. They wear face cream and listen to show tunes and call each other "Mary." Will goes even farther. He believes that he is a girl, literally. In one episode, Will's visiting cousin states that he needs "a woman's opinon" about something, and Will immediately chirps "Sure, I'll be glad to help."

3. Every gay stereotype you ever heard is absolutely true. Grace or Karen frequently make astonishingly homophobic statements, and Will has to admit that they are correct. In one episode, a gay man has to pretend to be interested in a woman, but he doesn't know how. Grace says: "Treat her like your mother." Will protests, "That's homophobic! All gay men aren't in love with their mothers. . .um. . .ok, ok, treat her like your mother."

4. Gay men like sex with women. A lot. Will/Grace and Jack/Karen are always cuddling, smooching, pawing at each other. Will and Jack occasionally kiss other women, too.

5. But they like sex with men more. That's right, gayness is a sexual preference. You have to try both sexes, and decide which one you prefer, like deciding between strawberry and chocolate ice cream. In one episode, Will admits that he had sex with a woman in order to "be sure."

6. They like sex with men, but relationships are heterosexual. Will gets married to his cop beau in the last episode, but before that he had 3,000 episodes paired with Grace. And the last episode fast-forwards to reveal Jack and Karen living together for 20 years. Same-sex bonds come and go, but heterosexual bonds are forever.

7. There is no gay culture. Will and Jack must spend all of their time among heterosexuals, because there are no gay political groups, social groups, sports groups, churches, or community centers. Just a lot of gay bars, and in one episode a bookstore.

8. All gay men are affluent sophisticated lawyers who live in Manhattan and have gym-toned physiques and listen to show tunes and are utterly self-absorbed. Of course, the straight women are the same.

9. There are no lesbians. Will is constantly telling people that he is gay, but Grace only states that she is a woman. She doesn't have to mention that she's heterosexual, because lesbians don't exist. Except in one episode, where they were portrayed as butch, predatory, and "confused." One "changes back" into heterosexual after kissing Will.

10. Sean Hayes utterly refused to acknowledge that he was gay during the entire run of the show. I can't imagine how much internalized homophobia and self-hatred it takes to do that. Of course, if he actually believed all of the contemptible things his character was saying about gay people, I can understand why he would hate himself.

by W&G Loverreply 272Last Tuesday at 4:29 PM

11. Leslie Jordan plays a flamboyantly feminine gay man -- even more feminine than the other characters, so much that Karen's homophobia changes from ridicule to hatred. But he insists that he is straight.

12. Grace and Karen throw around "fags" and "homos" with utter abandon, and instead of calling them out for their homophobia, Will and Jack meekly accept the abuse.

13. Sorry, I couldn't confine myself to 10. But this is the last one: Will doesn't know that gay men exist.

In one episode, Will is going on a blind date. As he sits in a restaurant waiting for his date, he strikes up a conversation with the man at the next table. He states that he, too, is waiting for a blind date. At this point, what would you conclude?


But Will doesn't. He says: "You know how women are, they always like to make an entrance." He is gay, and yet he is absolutely certain that every man on Earth is straight.

Postscript: I just heard some horrible news. After 12 blissfully gay-free years, self-hating Willa nd Jack -- and their fag-hating life partners Grace and Karen --are returning for another season of homophobic hijinks. Somehow, with the new fascist regime and the throwback of gay rights to the 1950s, it seems fitting.

by W&G Loverreply 273Last Tuesday at 4:29 PM

It's a sitcom R273, and as much as you want it to be the most perfect (read boring) representation of the most perfect gay men ever that's not what sitcoms are about.

by W&G Loverreply 274Last Tuesday at 4:45 PM

[quote] It's a sitcom

So were [italic]Hello, Larry[/italic] and [italic]Joanie Loves Chachi[/italic]. Those are its peers.

by W&G Loverreply 275Last Tuesday at 4:48 PM

[quote] It's a sitcom [R273], and as much as you want it to be the most perfect (read boring) representation of the most perfect gay men ever that's not what sitcoms are about.

Oscar on [italic]The Office[/italic] succeeds where both Will and Jack fail: at being an openly gay character who is funny, relatable, and believable. He, Stanley, and Phyllis are the only ones who would ever keep their jobs at Dunder Mifflin if they and it were real. Darryl on [italic]My Name Is Earl[/italic] is also a more interesting gay character as he is a survivor of childhood bullying from Earl and it has affected his relationships with men.

Quit while you're behind and stop making excuses for this show. In doing so, you pander to the soft bigotry of low expectations. Demand better from the media because we need and deserve better.

by W&G Loverreply 276Last Tuesday at 4:53 PM

[quote]Rosie got a great send off.

Now she ruined two NBC sitcoms.

by W&G Loverreply 277Last Tuesday at 4:59 PM

R273 you're a moron. You need to get a life! It's a SITCOM for goodness sakes! I'm happy that it's come back on NBC!

by W&G Loverreply 278Last Tuesday at 5:07 PM

wow! someone is trying out their college thesis on this thread. publish a book, then we can all save time by not reading any more of your diatribes. and maybe see about getting a humor transplant.

by W&G Loverreply 279Last Tuesday at 5:28 PM

R273 here. I'm in the right thread. WTF are the rest of you humorless bitches doing here?

by W&G Loverreply 280Last Tuesday at 6:03 PM

Oops! I'm R274. The anon with the stick up his ass is R273.

by W&G Loverreply 281Last Tuesday at 6:04 PM

[quote]Oscar on The Office succeeds where both Will and Jack fail:

Unfortunately The Office was such an unbearably unfunny piece of shit show that it didn’t matter.

by W&G Loverreply 282Last Tuesday at 6:08 PM

R272 and 273 makes the mistake of thinking that everyone is interested in what he has to say. In reality, no one is, especially when he decides to write a thesis.

by W&G Loverreply 283Last Tuesday at 6:11 PM

[quote]I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set


I suppose you feel like you need to bombard people into sharing your beliefs. But you can’t. It’s futile, so just cut your losses and pretend it doesn’t exist, instead of trying to shit all over the people who like it.

Life is really that simple.

by W&G Loverreply 284Last Tuesday at 6:15 PM

"I hated it. I still hate it. I can't watch an episode without seething with rage and trying to kill my tv set."

If you have such an extreme reaction to this show you may want to look inward to seek answers. You can start by doing a backflip up your ass.

by W&G Loverreply 285Last Tuesday at 7:44 PM

I need Karen out of the manse and in a penthouse wearing rubies with a lesbian affair with Rosie or that chick who plays Clinton as potential paramour.

I need Karen to hand it to Gwyneth. That sort of thing.

I need Karen at a Japanese karaoke bar belting this:

by W&G Loverreply 286Last Tuesday at 10:07 PM

Karen at Karaoke with new Japanese boyfriend. Something.

by W&G Loverreply 287Last Tuesday at 10:10 PM

R284 but then what would they do with their lives without spreading their misery?'

by W&G Loverreply 288Last Wednesday at 7:03 AM

Charming episode but very light on humour. The very first joke with Grace and the cashier flew straight over my head. I'll have to watch it with the CC on again to spot the wordplay or whatever that made the audience laugh.

Also, what the hell [italic]was[/italic] that cashier's accent anyway? Portuguese?

by W&G Loverreply 289Last Wednesday at 7:11 AM

The Christmas one was really bad, and I loved the previous ones.

It was nice, however, to see Bev Les.

by W&G Loverreply 290Last Wednesday at 7:17 AM

It wasn't great but I enjoyed Karen and her irish accent and it was still better than that crap that followed it after"superstore"

by W&G Loverreply 291Last Wednesday at 7:18 AM

They should have just done a regular episode or a Christmas special in the present time.

by W&G Loverreply 292Last Wednesday at 7:25 AM

Virtually all of the actors must learn to speak properly, W&G is the only TV show I consistently have to watch with closed captioning on just to undersand what the principals are saying. Alas, Karen, my favorite character, is the worst offender.

by W&G Loverreply 293Last Wednesday at 8:07 AM

ratings hit: 7.12 million viewers last night. about 5.4 were DL hate watchers apparently...

by W&G Loverreply 294Last Wednesday at 8:17 AM

Now they all speak improperly? Maybe it's time for you to get hearing aid Grandpa! You are all WAYYYY to critical! Here's some advice: if you don't like the show DON'T WATCH IT! SHEESH!!!!!

by W&G Loverreply 295Last Wednesday at 8:47 AM

Will & Grace is and always will be the best show on TV.

by W&G Loverreply 296Last Wednesday at 9:18 AM

The show’s Christmas episode scored a 1.8 rating in adults 18-49, tying “The Voice” for the lead in Tuesday primetime.

by W&G Loverreply 297Last Wednesday at 10:11 AM

Kind of sad the Rosario episode is the lowest rated episode of the run so far. But that week, CBS pulled out all their comedy big guns.

by W&G Loverreply 298Last Wednesday at 10:47 AM

Am I the only one who hated the last episode?

by W&G Loverreply 299Last Wednesday at 10:55 AM

The Rosario episode was very sad. The one with SKIP was the best.

by W&G Loverreply 300Last Wednesday at 11:01 AM

To R295: Listen, prick, I'm not the only person on this thread who has complained about not being able to understand what the main characters are saying on W&G. I'm in my early 40s and have excellent hearing acuity, but when characters are talking excessively fast and simultaneously mumbling, I know the problem isn't mine. You obviously have never seen the program, or you'd know what I was talking about. FWIW, W&G is the only TV show I ever have to use closed captioning on. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the program. Get your head out of your ass.

by W&G Loverreply 301Last Wednesday at 3:36 PM

Yeah, the problem is you. I don't think I've ever not understood what they're saying and frankly can't recall anyone ever making that complaint before. I've seen every episode and I don't know what you're talking about.

by W&G Loverreply 302Last Wednesday at 3:39 PM

To R295: R65, R126 & R250 have also posted comments on this thread complaining about not being able to understand the dialogue without CC, and there were also comments about this on the previous W&G thread. I think the only other times I've seen people on DL talking about using CC had to do with some British programs that were difficult to interpret without it. Just because you were apparently a graduate of the Evelyn Wood School of Speed Talking doesn't mean we all are, so take that stick out of your ass and settle down, Bevis.

by W&G Loverreply 303Last Wednesday at 4:10 PM

R303 You're alone on this one. Full of s**t really. Just admit it. Where do you live, somewhere in the country with a population of 100? Where people speak reeeeeal slowwww and drag the words out? Maybe that's the only speech you understand. If you're going to watch a show that takes place in New York City you better come prepared.

by W&G Loverreply 304Last Wednesday at 4:17 PM

Just watched the episode, and thought it was fun. Not great, but it had its moments. And I don't recall ever not understanding anything that was said.

by W&G Loverreply 305Last Wednesday at 4:43 PM

I thought it was on winter hiatus. Did I miss a new episode? I think the last one I saw was Rosario’s death.

by W&G Loverreply 306Last Wednesday at 4:51 PM

R306, you're fine. The last episode before the hiatus was Rosario's death and they returned last evening with the Christmas episode.

by W&G Loverreply 307Last Wednesday at 5:06 PM

It’s so broad, even by sitcom standards. WHET subtlety?

by W&G Loverreply 308Last Wednesday at 5:08 PM

Critics Choice Awards Snubs, according to

[quote] 4. Will & Grace – Despite all of the buzz around the arrival of this show and discussions about it getting a ton of awards-show love, how did it get only one nomination for Sean Hayes? How did Modern Family get a nod over it?

by W&G Loverreply 309Last Wednesday at 5:17 PM

I think Sean Hayes is a fantastic comedic actor. Actually I think the whole cast is great, but Sean is the standout with Megan coming in a close second.

by W&G Loverreply 310Last Wednesday at 5:40 PM

Sean takes dick up his ass. Gross!

by W&G Loverreply 311Last Thursday at 8:59 AM

Yeah, Karen in this one is weirdly subdued in many episodes. They need to have her be a little bit more Old Karen.

The Christmas ep was....interesting. Not a bad idea, but a bit long with the fantasy bits. Who knew Hayes had guns like that, though? Also, Eric looked amazing in those old fashioned flat front pants. Yum.

by W&G Loverreply 312Last Thursday at 9:04 AM

[quote] How did Modern Family get a nod over it?

Someone has to be paying for them at this point. That show is one of the shittiest, dullest shows I have ever seen.

by W&G Loverreply 313Last Thursday at 9:05 AM

When will Deb just go away? Can it be soon, please?

by W&G Loverreply 314Last Thursday at 9:05 AM

R314 Can you just go away? Can it be now, please?

by W&G Loverreply 315Last Thursday at 9:06 AM

Debra’s pussy stinks.

by W&G Loverreply 316Last Thursday at 10:54 AM

I loved the Smitty joke with the kid.

by W&G Loverreply 317Last Thursday at 2:02 PM
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