X-Men: Dark Phoenix

And they're including the Shi'ar Empire.

Chastain is playing Lilandra, not older Jean.

I just came in my pants.

R2 That hasn't been confirmed but that makes sense! Especially considering Lilandra's relationship with Charles.

I'm so psyched for this!

I really liked Sophie Turner as Jean Grey. She's not a supermodel but she's still quite beautiful, which I think fits the Jean Grey character perfectly. She's wholesome looking. Jean was never a vixen unless she was in Phoenix form. I was quite impressed with her.

Now I want to know who Chastain is playing.

R2 It think you're right. Angelina Jolie was being offered the role, too (first?), but she turned it down. She would've made an excellent Lilandra, but I'm happy they got Chastain. I'm still hoping she'll play the adult Jean and/or Dark Phoenix.

Also, from their Wiki, it seems as if they're rebooting the whole series after X-Men: Apocalypse underperformed. I actually thought the film was decent, though I did not like they're take on Apocalypse. They should've made him CGI like they're doing with Thanos in Avengers. Anyway, this means Famke Jannsen is out as older Jean, which leaves the possibility open that they could've been seeking Jolie for an older Jean/Dark Phoenix and they opted for Chastain. She'd be so perfect.

[quote]In June 2017, the Shi'ar alien race was rumored to be featured in the film,[22] and Angelina Jolie was being looked at for a role, though she was not expected to accept the part. Jessica Chastain was also potentially being looked at for the same character.[23] Fox confirmed that Kinberg would direct the film, and that Lawrence, Fassbender, McAvoy, and Hoult had all signed on to return for one more film. In addition to Turner, Apocalypse actors Alexandra Shipp, Tye Sheridan, and Kodi Smit-McPhee were also confirmed to be returning, while producers for the film were revealed to be Kinberg, Singer, Parker, and Lauren Shuler Donner. At that time, Chastain was in talks to join the cast as Shi'ar Empress Lilandra, the film's villain. The film's script was said to "hew closer" to the original "Dark Phoenix Saga" by Chris Claremont and John Byrne than The Last Stand did.[3][2] It was later revealed that the character Dazzler would be appearing in the film, after being hinted in a scene that was ultimately deleted from Apocalypse.[24]

*their take

Chastising is confirmed as Lilandra. Jennifer Lawrence, Fassbender and McAvoy are all returning.

I wish the Imperial Guard was going to be in this! I remember as a kid cracking up over them being such a rip-off of DC's Legion.

Dave Cockrum created the Imperial Guard intentionally as a tribute to Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes. It was a wink to Cockrum's initial claim to fame on S&TLSH.

That Wiki article only credits Claremont for the Dark Phoenix story? John Byrne came up with over half of the plot, not to mention all of the art.

OMG Gladiator vs (good) Phoenix is my favorite owning from the 90's cartoon. Phoenix is just on such a different level.

I wonder if they'll include the Hellfire Club, as the Dark Phoenix seeks new experiences and stimulation. I loved Jean's naughty corset outfit.

I also presume that Gladiator and the rest of the Praetorian Guard will fight the X-men (on the moon), for her life @ the end.

Well I'll be then naysayer and tell everyone now - it is going to suck. Every X-Men movie has sucked (except Deadpool & Logan). These characters just don't translate into film well.

The Dark Phoenix saga was a very slow burn. From the crash, to the fight with Magneto under the volcano, the fight with Proteus, the repair of the crystal, all showed her buildup in power, and then manipulation by Mastermind led to her breakdown. They going to show all this?

Couple this with bad scripts, mediocre acting, and just that many mutants powers are hard or dull to show on screen.

R12, you have some good points. But the films keep making money...so those of us who like the franchise will keep getting sequels :)

And bad "costumes".

Part of Phoenix' appeal are her green and red comic book costumes.

The movies let me down because of the mish-mash of characters. The 1995 cartoon was okay in adding then-current "hot" characters like Gambit (who did little in the Phoenix animated story), but I'm not interested in a Phoenix story with Magneto and Mystique as the leading characters.

I don't expect the Phoenix movie story to be just the comic book characters actually in the storyline from 1976-1980 but I dread seeing Jennifer Lawrence as the star.

Yas!

[quote]I wonder if they'll include the Hellfire Club

Hellfire Club was in X-Men: First Class

Yeah, but they left Jason Wyngarde, out of First Class. It might be clunky to have him in a live action movie with the Shi'ar though. I would opt for as much space setting as possible.

First look.

They may as well kill this now. Jessica Chastain is box office poison. She’s the Armie Hammer or actresses. No one cares.

Wait, so who is Jessica Chastain playing? Sophie Turner is playing Jean Grey right? Is there a time jump or something?

R20 Yes to all of that.

I spoke too soon. The EW has revealed she's playing "an otherworldly shapeshifter who comes into contact with Phoenix."

Ugh, I didn’t like Sophie as Jean.

I didn't either r23. Having this whole thing based around her makes me nervous.

R23 She's an atrocious actress. I can't believe they want her to carry a movie.

Sophie just doesn’t have the chops to play Jean. Forcing her to attempt an American accent really didn’t help; she clearly struggled. A slightly older Sophia Lillis (Beverly in IT) would’ve been a better choice.

Now that Disney is buying Fox, I wonder what they’re going to do with all the X properties.

Kevin Feige is apparently ready to play with the x-men

[quote]Marvel’s Kevin Feige has an almost unblemished track record for success in superhero movies at Disney, and he lent his magic to resuscitating Spider-Man in partnership with Sony. He’s said to be eager to get his hands on the X-Men universe

But yes, I'm curious to see how this will work in practice. The x-men characters have already been explored a lot in well received movies.

Sophie was terrible as Jean, so I'm definitely not looking forward to an entire movie focused on her.

I agree with this article: Chastain will be playing a Skrull empress and that's the huge twist as it's only possible if (and when) Disney acquires Fox.

Wait, I was wrong. The rights to the Skrull characters are already divided between the two studios. Which is nuts if you ask me.

[quote]Film rights to the Skrull race are shared between Marvel and Fox as the aliens have appeared in a wide range of comic book franchises. That said, rights to named members of the race will be divided between the studios (just as they are with the Watchers). Characters who are strongly associated with the Fantastic Four or the X-Men sit with Fox; those who are tied to franchises like the Avengers remain Marvel properties.

I would love to see what Kevin Feige does with the X-Men. His Marvel track record speaks for itself. Maybe they should scrap this X-Men: Phoenix and start the X-Men from scratch.

I can't wait for this!

Lol I got excited thinking this was a new thread, then read my posts above from months ago. Any new info?

It's getting to confusing for me to work up the required energy. Is Jean Grey dead or not?

[bold]Confirmed: Dark Phoenix Will Introduce Famous Marvel Villains Before Captain Marvel Does[/bold]

[quote]For a long time it’s been rumored that Fox will beat Marvel to the screen with the shape-shifting aliens the Skrulls, and today I received confirmation from a long-time source that they are indeed in [italic]X-Men: Dark Phoenix[/italic]. This may remind comic fans of how Fox quickly replaced Juggernaut in [italic]Days of Future Past[/italic] with Quicksilver to beat Marvel to the screen with that character as well.

[quote]As for the movie itself, my source says they thought it was better than [italic]Apocalypse[/italic] but not as good as [italic]Days of Future Past[/italic]. At this point, they felt it was similar in issues to [italic]First Class[/italic]. It’s also very serious with very little humor, but they said that Kinberg did a good job with it.

Is that creep Bryan Singer producing it?

Singer is credited as a producer but that might just be because of the connection to the previous X-Men movies he directed. In any case, he wasn't involved in the filming. This will be all Kinberg.

[quote] Every X-Men movie has sucked (except Deadpool & Logan). These characters just don't translate into film well.

X2 is a fucking glorious entry into the 21st C. gay canon and you well know it, R12.

Release pushed back from November 2 to February 14, 2019.

'Bohemian Rhapsody' will now open on that date, instead of December 25 as previously announced.

The costumes suck. Why can’t they stick to canon when telling these old stories???

I’m sorry fan boys. Honestly I am. But the truth is, the story was told with male characters in tight lycra battlesuits sometimes with briefs OVER the leggings. You have to get over your terror of seeing a male bulge or bulbous ass cleavage.

It’s going to suck. I already have visions of Phoenix in some kind of leather outfit with straps and buckles everywhere, instead of the smooth sexy green body suit with yellow thigh boots. And even if they produced a tight outfit for someone, they still have to fuck it up by adding a bumpy surface to make it look like Kevlar or fish scales something.

No one rebels against this heresy, this complete ignorance of canon. So they keep making this shit.

How many more times can Hugh Jackman juice himself up to Wolverine-sized bulk? That’s GOT to be terrible for the liver, so say nothing about his testicles from all the T supplements, and his heart.

No wonder they pay them so much. They’re lifespan is going to be affected by the steroids.

I think the first two X-Men movies still hold up quite well. They really were at the start of this whole comic book movie renaissance, but were early enough to not be bloated by excess CGI, pointless action, and endless disposable characters. The cast was fantastic, particularly Stewart, McKellan, and Jackman.

"Days of Future Past" was the best of the recent entries. It wasn't perfect, but was the lesser offender of comic book movie excess.

"Logan," however, is in a class all of its own. In my opinion, "Logan" is the best superhero movie of all time, beating out even "The Dark Knight," and I see little chance any other superhero movie will be able to come close to it for a long time... mostly because it was so unexpected and bucked the trends of the genre so well.

I'll go see "Dark Phoenix" because I'm a big X-Men fan, but I don't have high expectations. Just when I thought the series was past the crap that was "The Last Stand," they made "Apocalypse."

They also pushed New Mutants back six months.

They must be in trouble.

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO over these movies. They are all the fucking same!!

[bold]'X-Men: Dark Phoenix,' 'New Mutants' Delayed For Significant Reshoots[/bold]

[quote]X-Men: Dark Phoenix is going to see some considerable changes before its release, as sources tell ComicBook.com the Simon Kinberg-directed film is in need of multiple weeks worth of reshoots to change significant story points in the film.

[quote]After testing the film, 20th Century Fox has elected to bring the film back into production ahead of its release. They will have a significant roadblock in doing so, however, as its titular Dark Phoenix actress Sophie Turner will be heavily tied up with obligations to Game of Thrones' final season through September.

Thank the gods. They said that first cut played like a drama and was light on action, which is definitely something people want from their comic book movies, right?

I wonder if the potential Disney acquisition might be further along and they're retooling to bring it closer to the MCU.

X-Men aren’t currently considered part of that universe?

Did you spot this gem in the article @r45?

[quote]20th Century Fox's other property, New Mutants, is also in the process of even more significant reshoots after having its release date delayed nearly an entire year. The film will add a few new characters to round out the movie, as well as make it scarier, overhauling the majority of the film. Almost half of the movie is supposedly being reshot. The original version of the film was directed by Josh Boone. Such a hold up has prompted the film to push its release date back, once again, to August 2, 2019. It was originally scheduled for April 13, 2018.

Holy incompetence! And to think it was supposed to come out a couple of weeks from now originally.

Will Rictor be apart of the New Mutants movies?

[quote]And they're including the Shi'ar Empire.

FINALLY.

Not sure, r59. Doesn't look like he'll be apart of the main cast. Perhaps in a smaller capacity.

Oops r49, not 59.

Eh. Would rather have had HOUSE OF M as a movie or as a miniseries. Dark, but fascinating.

Wait, so...

If LAST STAND and some of X2 (? how much?) never happened in this new timeline then; what happens with Iceman & Pyro in this timeline? They aren't born at the time of DARK PHOENIX, clearly (in the MCU they're both '80s babies). But will they both still exist? And if so will they still manifest their original powers and end up at Xavier's? Will they get to know each other, or ever even meet? Will Bobby still be gay and come out?

My poor gay mutie heart is very concerned...

This... doesn't look that great.

R55 agreed

It looks fucking awful. I wonder if they can even get the bigger cast members to promote it.

Dark Phoenix cannot translate to a movie. Most of the story is just Jean freaking out about what's happening to her and her friends despair when they lose her. It's compelling to read but wouldn't work for a movie.

r58 And even if the translation from the comics to the script was somewhat decent, you're still stuck with a mediocre actress who couldn't possibly elevate the material if her life depended on it. She's the worst possible choice for those solo scenes you mentioned. Just doesn't have the chops for it.

They're trying to make New Mutants into a horror film? Weird.

Final trailer.

Premieres June 7th.

Surprise, it's a turd!

I'll still see it as they're my favourite comic book movies.

R62 the trailers didn't exactly leave a great impression.

r63 Oh, the trailers were definitely bad. And they had to reshoot the entire ending as it was too similar to Captain Marvel's, who got there first.

Poor Jessica.

I didn’t see any reference to the Shi’ar or Lilandra in the trailers. Is Chasten’s character some new creation to take the place of say Lilandra, Mastermind, etc?

r66 She's playing Vuk, a shape-shifting alien helping the D'Bari Empire. Her race might be revealed in the movie as they're being tight-lipped about it.

[Quote] And they had to reshoot the entire ending as it was too similar to Captain Marvel's, who got there first.

What was the original ending?

The same as Captain Marvel's - she destroys an alien ship with her powers in space.

Shame for this series to go out like this. Oh well, Disney will revive it in like five years and we can wash our hands of this madness.

Not surprised at all that the film turns out to be crap. This was Simon Kinberg's [bold]FIRST[/bold] time as a film director. The only other directing credit is from an episode of this year's The Twilight Zone. There were rumors he ended up directing the remaining parts of Fantastic Four after Josh Trank was booted from the director's chair but whoever thought he's suitable to head a $200M production after a nonexistent track record was crazy.

I have a suspicion that Kinberg used Singer's teen boy sex drama to his own advantage and somehow managed to secure the director's position to himself.

Awesome. A superhero movie that is also a sequel! I cannot wait for this one. Wow, summer entertainment at its finest!

r71 He's also behind Jessica Chastain's upcoming middle-aged female spies movies.

The 1995 animated version will never be beaten.

The 2007 version was horrible and this looks worse.

r73 That's still in the works? I remember creating a thread about it last year and then it all went silent.

355 is apparently still in pre-production, R73. If Dark Phoenix flops hard AND is a terrible film artistically I suspect they'll replace him.

R74, John Byrne and Chris Claremont's The Dark Phoenix saga in the comics is the one that will never be beaten. I was 12 when I first read it and it was pure magic.

r76 actually I think Days of Future Past was a better story

Agreed, of course, I just meant cartoons or movies, R76.

I was 14 when Jean Grey was becoming Dark Phoenix and it's still in my top three favorite storylines in 44 years of reading comics (Mantis as the Celestial Madonna, and Infinite Crisis are my other two faves).

BTW, I consider Jean Grey and Phoenix dead since June 1980. All the retcons since never happened in my mind. What a way to ruin a story.

R77, I liked the Days of Future Past comic as well but as a storyline it was much much shorter and didn't have the impact The Dark Phoenix saga had.

R78, I stopped reading The X-Men soon after John Byrne left. I've tried to get back to it a few times through Marvel's digital subscription but all the dozens of storylines and characters getting killed and then getting reborn again is just crazy. You have to go into a certain mindset to be able to buy the stories and then enjoy it all and I'm just unable to do it.

It's a total shame Fox managed to fuck up The Dark Phoenix saga the second time. I'm not too wild about The X-Men moving to the MCU but I assume they might be able to do justice to the story if they decide to bring it to the screen.

R79 disagree wholeheartedly. Days set up so many storylines including Future Franklin Richards, Rachel Summers - the whole tone of the X-Men changed after days when Xavier read future Kitty's mind to realize his dream was a failure. Dark Phoenix as a story was impactful and brilliant but it was told too fast. Jean became a god and killed herself in the span of what three issues? Marvel has milked the Phoenix story over and over but Days gave us a shift in the x-universe.

A depressing one. That storyline was not meant by Byrne (give him the plotting credit because it's the truth) to mire the X-Men into endless depressing stories, which was exactly what happened.

Claremont made 1984 to 1990 the dreariest time ever for the X-Men, which was because of his Anti-Mutant plots.

Dark Phoenix is currently at 21% on RT. It was 16% earlier.

X-Men First Class was enjoyable and Days of Future Past wasn't bad, but Apocalypse was a piece of shit. I hope Dark Phoenix tanking kills this iteration of the series. McAvoy can quit shaving his head and Fassbender can go back to killing himself with drugs and drink. Don't care what happens to Lawrence. Nick Hoult will probably end up as James Bond in a few years, so he'll be fine.

I love the 2000 and 2003 films, no matter how much they differed from the comics. They had the spirit of the comics down well (as did the first two Spider-Man movies and even the two Fantastic Four movies; neither Hulk movie, though - ugh!).

But these Millennial X-Men movies are horrible. I still don't understand how there were X-Men in 1974 but then they are still young in 2014. Yeah, erasing a timeline and all that but it's still stupid.

And Millenial Storm is the WORST character I've ever seen in a super-hero film.

The end of X2 with the quickest shot of Phoenix under the lake was more thrilling than any second of these X-Millennials.

We can blame Superman Returns on getting Brett Ratner's shitty X-Men: The Last Stand. We also got a shitty Superman movie. I wish Singer had stayed with the the franchise so they could have properly finished that arc. What a waste.

Blame Singer, not Superman.

BTW, Superman Returns is much better than The Last Stand garbage.

Unless the film rights wer close to lapsing and would then revert back to Marvel, there is no reason why Fox needed another X-Men film so soon after the awful Apocalypse. Thankfully this is the last film of this cast. Going forward they should use other characters. So tired of Jean Grey.

Sansa Stark Jean Grey is also one of the worst casting choices in super-hero film history.

Poor Tye Sheridan.

Just saw it. It's talky and empty but damn, it has such great fight sequences. I'll take this over Avengers any day, sorry not sorry. They just do it for me.

But yes, when it comes to the writing, this certainly is a pathetic conclusion of the X-Men story.

Look at all these beautiful white faces, grinning their way through a flop promo tour.

They could at least have invited Alexandra Shipp to tag along. Or Ato Essandoh. Or Lamar Johnson.

[quote]Unless the film rights wer close to lapsing and would then revert back to Marvel, there is no reason why Fox needed another X-Men film so soon after the awful Apocalypse. Thankfully this is the last film of this cast. Going forward they should use other characters. So tired of Jean Grey.

Worldwide B.O. of all the X-Men films before Dark Phoenix is $5.77B and domestic $2.3B. That's the reason Fox kept making them. It's really a shame Singer got Days of Future Past so right and then went totally off the mark with Apocalypse. Just imagine if he'd directed both Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix with as good scripts as Days of Future Past had? That would've been pure bliss. Then again like mentioned for some reason they got Storm wrong yet again with Alexandra Shipp. After seeing her nonexistent screen presence you had to give credit to Halle Berry for at least making her Storm memorable.

R90, good to hear it's not a total failure.

I liked it a lot. Not perfect, but I don't see how critics are calling this the Worst X-Men movie. It's better than Apocalypse and miles better than TLS.

Agree with others that Chastain and her alien crew were a snooze.

Love the score and wish Zimmer released it traditionally and not as obscurely-named suites

I don't think reviews would be as bad if it weren't "The Last" X-Men movie, which they didn't know in production. I took it on its own terms, it's fine.

I didn't know Zimmer did the score. Gonna check it out now.

Fassbender just seems to be sleep walking through the promos for this movie - its as if he knows its a stinker & just wants to get it over with. James McAvoy is charming as usual, but no one seems into it. Even Graham Norton couldn't elicit any of the typical nonsense from them.

R94 my favorite of the X-scores is still John Ottman’s masterful X2.

Some of the string cues are haunting, and he manages to make brass/wind sound positively sinister.

Dark Phoenix is about to flop hard. It's expected to only make $36.5M domestically this weekend which is quite a disaster for a $200M movie.

Another flop for Jessica Chastain.

We’re all X-mened out at this point.

Dark Phoenix doesn’t work without “Marvel Girl.” If you don’t set her up appropriately the transformation doesn’t resonate. These characters are too overpowered as it is so Phoenix? Who cares.

The 90s cartoon version worked because people aside from existing comic fans didn’t know about Phoenix, and “Jean Grey” in the series basically WAS Marvel Girl with all her fainting and shit. The viewer could connect with Jeans transformation into Phoenix, her sacrifice, her return and downfall, then her death.

Famke’s version COULD have pulled it off if the writing weren’t such shit in X3.

Word is they had to change the ending because it was too much like Captain Marvel.

Yes, it was mentioned back in r64. I imagine the space battle came after the train scene. There's no way they had the entire train battle on that spaceship in the original cut, right? And the changed ending did leave me wondering who's still on that alien spaceship.

[quote] If you don’t set her up appropriately the transformation doesn’t resonate. These characters are too overpowered as it is so Phoenix? Who cares.

R100 I thought that when they made Iceman an Omega-level mutant. Like, why? And why is there a classification (r: caste) system of mutant power anyway? It’s like Lucas and his Jedi midichlorian counts..

What does Iceman as an Omega-level mutant even look like? Can he bring about an instantaneous ice age across the planet or something? Because if not, he's not Omega-level.

The reviews have been terrible & particularly hard on Turner & DL fave Jennifer Lawrence, who apparently looks like she's just phoning it in. Reviewers seem to be kind of Fassbender, though his part in this movie is apparently small

Fassbender and McAvoy are the strong points and JLaw was obviously over this role in Age of Apocalypse.

On Twitter people have been sending snarky tweets to Lauren Schuler Donner about this flop so she finally tweeted everyone to save their sympathies as she hasn't produced an X-Man film in years.

r105 I agree with all those points. I will say that I've always loved Fassbender in these movies and this one is no exception. He gets the best lines, has the best character, and sells it with his acting.

The one thing that shocked me was the lack of Quicksilver. There's basically just one very short scene where he's being goofy. I know they were going for a different tone with this movie, but I thought that was a missed opportunity.

r106 She must have deleted that tweet. She's all in on the Legion season 3 promotion.

[quote] The end of X2 with the quickest shot of Phoenix under the lake was more thrilling than any second of these X-Millennials.

Yes!

Shit, I never noticed that shot before!

r104 - Iceman as an omega was a progression of the character. Emma Frost is in a coma after the Sentinals attack and kill the Hellions. Something happens to cause a mind swap with Iceman (I forget the cause but I think Bobby was protecting her coma toast body when it happened.). Emma takes over Iceman's body and starts using his powers in ways he never did - including shape shifting his form, freezing an entire lake in an instant and converting his body from gas to liquid to ice. Emma soon realizes Bobby is perhaps one of the worlds most powerful mutants. This is actually the start of the iceman coming out. When they switch back, Bobby comes to Emma and asks for her help since she used his powers in ways he never did. She turns him down, angry that he had so much power but plays the fool when her students died. He attacks her and starts using his powers in ways he never did before. She reminds him she knows everything about him now since they shared bodies, and he breaks down. It is a turning point for Emma who realizes these X-men she thought had perfect lives were just as damaged. Later Colossus's brother who can manipulate all forms of matter puts Bobby through the wringer and Bobby realizes he has complete control over his ice form and comes out of it stronger, At this point Bobby realizes there seems to be no upper limit to his powers.

[bold]Tye Sheridan Confirms Aliens In ‘Dark Phoenix’ Were Initially Skrulls Before Reshoots[/bold]

[quote]“It’s really hard for me to remember what the ending of this movie is. [laughs] Originally, it was scripted that Charles and Scott go to the U.N. because — man, I’m totally going to mess this up — they go to the U.N. because they’re going to try to tell the President that, ‘Hey, we’re under attack by aliens, and they’ve now captured Jean Grey.’ Or, you know, whatever it is that we’re going to tell him.

[quote]“And then Jean comes down in the front of the U.N., and causes… there is this huge battle between the guards at the U.N. and Jean Grey, and all the guards turn out to be Skrulls. And then Jean and Scott are — Scott is fighting Skrulls in the fountain. He gets thrown into the fountain in front of the U.N. And then Jean comes down and basically fights all of the Skrulls off, and then blasts back off into space. [She] basically says goodbye to Scott and Charles. And then it’s all over, I guess.”

Um, wow. That was the original finale? A battle at the UN?

They should have cast Misery Chastain.

Might have saved the cockadoody picture!

Jessica Chastain sinks every movie she’s in. She’s box office poison.

She always plays the same part in every movie R114 an icy woman who turns out to be evil, she does it well but try something new already!

I bought a ticket 10 minutes before the start of a show. I said to the clerk when he showed me the screen to take a seat: wow, not many seats. I'll take that lone seat that's available. He said no. that's taken. all the ones you see around it in a different color are open.

Yikes!

The movie SUCKED. Don't ready any further if you don't want spoilers.

1) apparently Jean was the Bad Seed; she didn't need the Phoenix force to turn bad she already was.

2) where in the hell does this fit into continuity?

3) Scott looks...funny. Granted, James Marsden is a TOUGH act to follow.

4) Nightcrawler taller than Storm? No. Just, no.

5) all the deep dialogue! So many cryptic statements. That went nowhere.

6) the actress playing Jean I guess is from GoT (I never watched); horrible; simply horrible.

r116 yeah they got so much wrong. The Xmen are almost impossible to fuck up yet they do it every time. Chris Claremont's stories are simply brilliant and if they had just followed the comic it would have been amazing. Instead, they always feel the need to change things. Mystique being Xavier's adopted sister? Come the fuck on. And did they miss Days of Future Past where Wolverine comes back to the present and Jean is alive?? I mean seriously.

While we are at it. Selene. Selene was a MAJOR villain in the X-Men comics. An immortal psychic vampire..here...umm what the fuck part two?

R117, Mystique's role was expanded after Jen Lawrence hit it big. It flies in the face of comic continuity.

Her being the moral center of the X-Men is ridiculous; in the comics, she murdered Carol Danvers' boyfriend Michael Barnett -- while disguising herself AS Carol -- cruel.

The best things I can say about the movie were the Beats, Magneto, the fight scenes, Professor X and Nightcrawler was kinda cute but way too tall.

the casting of Jean and Scott was wrong; ironical, as in the first movie I loved Famke and James.

[Quote] She always plays the same part in every movie [R114] an icy woman who turns out to be evil, she does it well but try something new already!

She wasn't evil in Mama. But I had a hard time buying her as a punk rocker lol.

[Quote] in the comics, she murdered Carol Danvers' boyfriend Michael Barnett -- while disguising herself AS Carol -- cruel.

Ooh I would've loved a Brie vs JLaw showdown.

John Byrne co-wrote the iconic 1978-1980 stories, not just Claremont.

I thought Xavier was written horribly as well. As bad as JLaw.

Selene? A minor blip on the X-Men history. All she was was Claremont's latest in a long line of bisexual women he tried to stealth through the stories. Byrne even said that Claremont tried to sneak it in that all of the women were bisexual. Such a perv.

r121 um no. Selene was the introduction of the immortal mutants, the externals of which Apocolypse was one. Gideon was another. The one who quite possibly had an S and M relationship with Sunspot. Selene also helped rescue Madalyne Pryor after the inferno event. She was introduced in the New Mutants with Magma and New Roma. She was an Omega Level mutant who drove several story arcs in the 90s.

Evil Lesbian.

The first run of the All-New, All-Different X-Men was glorious. Writer Len Wein (RIP) kicked it off. Then Claremont took over and made it glorious and all his own.

I loved Cockcrum's art, then Byrne/Austin; Paul Smith was good and I grew to appreciate John Romita, J.R.

I never read that Claremont intended Madeline Pryor to be a clone of Jean's. I think bringing back the 'real' Jean the way they did -- she was at the bottom of Jamaica Bay in NY all that time, healing was pretty good. But dear lord, how many times was the woman going to die.

Looking back I didn't care for X-Factor or much of X-Men following Uncanny #200 (the Jim Lee art was great).

Outside of Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run and some of the Morrison stuff I am not a fan of what's come after that original run.

I hear they're gearing up for ANOTHER relaunch and this one is supposed to be good. I'll give the first few issues a shot.

[quote]I never read that Claremont intended Madeline Pryor to be a clone of Jean's.

I actually liked the fact that she was originally intended just to be a woman that looked like Jean Grey. It's was a nice twist on a common trope. People kept expecting her to have some relationship to Jean and she just originally wouldn't have at all. Of course, that changed.

[quote] Selene also helped rescue Madalyne Pryor after the inferno event. She was introduced in the New Mutants with Magma and New Roma.

As a child, reading the X-Men reprints and her ongoing sagas with Rachel Summers and Amara/Magma, Selene was probably the only villain that genuinely scared me.

She was just an evil "vampire"/"witch"/"mutant" at first.

And yes she has been around and prominent at various times for the past few decades. You're right. She's definitely not a "blip.."

She wasn't around just in the 80s or 90s. The whole "Necrosha" debacle brought her back to the spotlight in 2009 through 2010. She's basically the go to villain when they want to write a plot involving sorcery and mutants and that last mega plot gave the X-Writers an excuse to undo deaths.

While many of them perished again at the end of the story line a few stuck around like Cypher and their timeline's Blink.

"I never read that Claremont intended Madeline Pryor to be a clone of Jean's. I actually liked the fact that she was originally intended just to be a woman that looked like Jean Grey. It's was a nice twist on a common trope. People kept expecting her to have some relationship to Jean and she just originally wouldn't have at all. Of course, that changed. "

the crash Madeline survived occurred when Jean died on the moon; and Claremont did write a little girl with that name who appeared in Avengers Annual #10, great story that addressed the lunacy of Avengers #200.

I wonder what Claremont's idea was with the little girl who played Maddy Pryor?

I agree it would have been a nice change just to make her look like Jean, but where does the story go after that?

[quote]I agree it would have been a nice change just to make her look like Jean, but where does the story go after that?

Great thing about him is that he's talked quite a bit about this stuff over the years in writing and on film.

Here's a video where he talks about her and how things changed from her just being a woman that looked like Jean to what we got.

Who is the albino chick? The character, I mean.